We widened the scale to help differentiate between discs with respect to turnover and fade. All the discs are being reviewed to align their ratings to the new system. It won't be perfect, but it should be better.

I checked out the new ratings, and yes, they are the best I've seen yet. I throw the Banshee, and though it has a whole lot of resistance to high speed turn, it does not have excessive fade, and if the Firebird is 4, then a 3 it is. I think that the 3 is right on as far as the Roc's low speed fade as well, I just think it should have a -1 in high speed turn since it is not the same in that category as a Banshee (or Firebird, or Monster) in terms of high speed stability. I think that all the ratings for the midranges assume a 300'+ shot and all the distance driver ratings assume a 400'+ shot. If you cannot get them out that far, then the ratings will not be the same for you. For example, if you put enough height on a new 180g Roc for it to go well over 300' without turning, it will fade +3, and if you only throw an Orc 350' it will most likely be a 0 in high speed stability rather than a -1.

Yes, the long range drivers do assume a 400 ft throw. The mid range assume a 330. Putt and Approach assume 250-280.

great changes to the charts. my only suggestion would be to the dx beast -- turn -.5 [not -2]


great job dave

Dave,

I noticed on the new disc charts that the Panther and the Cobra are not included in the Champion line. Does this mean that they have been discontinued?

I'm sure you guys have someone else in charge of this, but I'll just let you know anyway that there are a couple of typo's on the new Pro Line chart.

Pro Chart--Orc listed as 1 for high speed turn instead of -1.
Cobra and KC Roc max weight listed as 175g

Hey Dave, I just got a few new Orcs and was really disapointed to find the plastic is a lot softer and gummier and they seem to be significantly less stable than the first couple of stiffer Orcs that I got. Were my first few Orcs just flukes or was this an intentional change? The stiffer ones were perfect for me and I'm very distressed that I may not be able to get more. I have one stiff one left and it's getting pretty beat but it's still more stable than the new ones I got. These are all max weight by the way so it's not a weight difference. Please make some more stiff Orcs. :)

Dave,

A local store has some discs with KC Pro and Champion TeeBird stamps, but the bottom writing next to the weight says TL. Which is more likely...that they are misstamped TL's, or regular TeeBirds that are incorrectly marked? One of them also says TB? Thanks.

Well the best way to tell would be to look at the wing. The wing of the TL is smooth while the T has a little notch/bead/ledge on the tip of the wing. I would guess they are mismarked.

Graham,

I believe you had the clue. The discs are misstamped based on your info. The disc marked TL with the Champion Stamp has no lip/bead like my Pro Teebird. It must be a real TL.

Hello Dave..About the Champion ORCs..I have 4 max weights and just lost my oldest one.It was blue with purple swearls in the inner rim and was almost clear plastic.I got this around Icebowl of this past year and after deciding it was amazin I bought 4 more but only one was of the clearer type plastic the rest were a pearl like plastic and are different flyers new. The clear stuff goes on and on while the pearl is more overstable.Is it just me or has anyone else brought this to your attention?After I lost my First blue I threw a pearl peach max weight and couldnt get close in the distances I got before.This went on for two weeks until I finally pulled out another clear blue only without the color swirl and got even better distance than the original I lost.The pearl seems exactly like the Pro plastic I assumed was discontinued and havent had much luck finding more clear max weights.Any insight you can add?Or anyone else reading the thread?Thanks.

i am not a fan of the pearl at all---clear seems to grip better and have more dome. the frustrating thing about champion discs is having to actually see and feel the discs to know what you are getting. mail order does not work. hopefully all champions are becoming clear? dave?

discspeed, thanks for the heads up on the chart. No, neither of those discs have been discontinued, just oversights.

cornflake, I can't be sure which you are referring to, but the heavies are usually a little stiffer than the lights. Could be a number of things that caused the difference, but I don't know which is correct. That being said, the plastic is the same as a Champion Beast for comparison.

Hawk, it could be either way, unfortunately. Sometimes the molders continue to mark the current disc with the previous run marking as they had been doing it for a thousand of discs. Sometimes the discs get put in the wrong boxes, and sometimes the hotstampers screw up.

Dave,

I recently went to Wimberly,TX's pro shop, and found on the rack of Orcs, a few gummy plastic Orcs. You know what I'm referring to, I'm sure. I've found Monsters, and Beasts in the same plastic, you know, the really light stuff. Can you shed some light on this subject for everyone here, because I'm not aware of how exactly you guys release these gummy plastics discs with the regular champion stuff.

Krevo, for the fastest disc like Orcs, Starfires, Mosters, and Beasts. there is always some gummy plastic mixed in. Sometimes more than others depending on what the molder of the day is doing. We generally try to put as little in as we need, but instructions don't always get followed. The gummy stuff lightens up the mix, otherwise the Monsters, et al would be overweight.

Dave-

Is it possible to recycle old discs? I have a steadily growing collection of discs that are too beat or damaged to throw. It'd be great if there was a way to send those back to the manufacturers so the plastic could be used again.

boru, yes, it is possible, but only a little at a time due to various factors like compatibility, degredation (UV), contamination, feeding, colors, etc.

Dave?

Hi Dave,

Are you participating in the Masters Overall SCF / MTA?
I heard that John Kirkland threw a 13.22s MTA to set a new world record for the 55 year and older age division. I think the finals are Thursday or Friday...

robj, no, been too busy working.

Dave, I was just wandering what the qualification are for sponsorship from Innova.
What do you look for I a sponsored player is it skill, sportsmanship, dedication, do you have to throw all Innova before your picked up, or is it a mix of them all.

If it is any or all of this qualities that you look for in a player, then, I think you should look at Rookie of the year candidate Matthew Blakely (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=15410)

P.S. He was just offered the Z-pack from Discraft.

Dave, I was just wandering what the qualification are for sponsorship from Innova.
What do you look for I a sponsored player is it skill, sportsmanship, dedication, do you have to throw all Innova before your picked up, or is it a mix of them all.

If it is any or all of this qualities that you look for in a player, then, I think you should look at Rookie of the year candidate Matthew Blakely (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=15410)

P.S. He was just offered the Z-pack from Discraft.



What is a Z-pack?

It's one of Discraft's (top dog) sponsorship pack (under getting a RV or your own disc) 150 disc, 2 polo's, 2 tee's 2 hats, 1000 disc at cost plus finishing bonuses.

Do you mean the Z team? From what I understand, there are 3 levels of sponsorship. D, X, Z. Most start at D and move up as they do well in tournaments. I could see how a player of his caliber would start at Z.

And M. Team

Why only 1000 discs at cost?

Don't forget the Corvette signing bonus.

why is he a rookie candidate?? I see he's been playing open since 2002... how's that rookie?

just asking, want to know.

thanks

In 2003 I was going to go to the am worlds and was unable to make it. I played two or three tournament before that in open trying to get use to good competition. Of course I wasn't good enough yet and didn't cash, so I was still considered an am. It's just like the people who stepped up before an am worlds and declined cash, I just didn't get a chance to decline it.

I may be a little biased having played recreational rounds before with Matt, but he is a quality guy who is young, dedicated, has serious D, and an impressive all-around game. Over the last year, imo he has displayed potential to be one of the top players in the world (as if i have the qualifications to say such a thing :D)

Our sponsored players are usually a mix of things, but are primarily, if not entirely, Innova throwers before we consider them. A rating of about 1000+ and of good character. We ask people on the team or TDs for a referral in addition to the other factors. To make the Team Champion Level requires a win in an A tier or NT, or a performance that indicates a win is soon to happen.

Thanks for the info Dave. It sounds like Matt meets must of the qualities of your sponsored player.

<<< Z-Team member.

<<< Must not be good enough for the Vette.

<<< Must really suckk b/c i drive an '01 Altima SE

All you had to do was ask. Keith's old Escort was available.

Keith's old Escort was available.



Let's leave my girlfriend out of this.

If Innova signs you up, you can probably request and receive several Stingrays, but they won't be Corvettes. I used to have an '82 vette (a Chevette).

Dave, on a Yahoo group dedicated to overall disc events, I heard rumors of a new (Innova) MTA disc. Are they just rumors?

Hi Dave,
I read about the DX Viking coming out, I think it was in one of your newsletter from february or march. Do you now what the plans are, is it on the way or...?

robj, just a rumour

mf100, still in the works. We got behind molding other existing discs. The DX Viking will still have to wait several months, until we catch up.

Dave, Do you know where I can get some of the Vikings with the "Zipper" finish on them.. I am sure it has been discussed but I am just trying to locate some. Thx

PT, sorry, no idea. I believe those were the first run.

ok well thx

Hey Dave...I really enjoyed your interview in the new DGWN and thanks for hitting the boards to answer eveyones questions. What do you have planned for player packages at Worlds? Thanks

chase, I don't know at this time. I think Innova East is handling that for us.

Dave,

If you don't mind sharing, what's going on in your head right now with respect to new Innovational disc designs? Is the Orc the pinnacle of speed/glide, or do you have some other ideas to try out still? Is distance still the focus, or have you been thinking more of control? Thanks.

I've got a question for you Dave. I have heard that innova has run out of the plastic used in the KC rocs. Is this just a rumor? If not, then what can we expect the next rocs to be like?

Matt, a superlight Shark will work well if you know how to throw it. It needs to weigh around 112 gms or less.


Dave,
Where could I find a light Shark like this?

Lowe

I'm curious about that too. I saw some Sharks that were 125g the other day at a junior course challenge involving E.D.G.E. and almost bought one -- would that be a bit too heavy for MTA?

I've also heard the MTA Rocs are nicknamed "pebbles."
Is there any trick to finding the super light Classic Rocs?
a friend loaned me his 'pebble' -- but I'd love to try a premi Classic.

discspeed, the latest design was for a midrange, the Bulldog, however testing has revealed a possible flaw I am working on now. The Orc is not the pinnacle of distance forever. Probably next year, we will have a topper. I am always thinking of control. Sometimes it's shortrange, and sometimes long.

Rodney, just a rumour.

Hi Lowe, probably very few around. You would have to get help from Sam out here or maybe Harold on the East coast.

robj, the light 125gm Sharks are EDGE Sharks. The original Roc was referred to as the Pebble, the little Roc. We don't make those any more at the low weight. We could if we had a significant outlet (store or such). The Classic run is coming soon.

Would a 125g EDGE Shark work well for MTA or is it too heavy?

robj, too heavy unless there is a lot of wind and you throw back door.

Dave,

Any chance for additional models of full colour discs. I would like to see for instance a Rhyno?
Any news on XD in Pro plastic?

Gelrod, we have two color processes. "Full color" is done on the East Coast, and INNcolor is done on the west coast. INNcolor is limited by technology at this point. Full color is only limited to DX at present. The XD is coming up in the rotation next. We will run at least a limited amount of Pro XDs.

Dave...any word on those aniversary Avairs?

Chase, still haven't seen the art yet. We are running the discs now.

Will the anniversary Aviars be Pro, Champion, DX?

Dave,

Will they be small bead, big bead or no bead?

Thanks for your answers to all of our inane and limitless questions.

Ray :cool:

robj, Champion.

Dave, just wanted to say great work on the new Pro plastic. I bought a 166g Pro Teebird on a whim, and almost instantly took a liking to it. The plastic is just so . . . throwable, for lack of a better word, compared to Champion. Some guy's dog did a number on my Teebird this weekend, but I'll definitely pick up some more Pro in the near future.

Hey dave, do you guys have a slated time on another run of Pro Orcs... I never got to try one up here in Canada... I guess too limited.
or are you just too swamped with other requests??? :D

Love the CE Orcs, I love the Pro Tee-Birds, can't wait for the Pro Orcs. That's a one spicy meatball. :D

i have 3 pro orcs in my possession and i don't care what anybody says that is one sweet disc. i ate lasagna tonight and had a little grease on my hand. i picked that bad boy up and chucked it to my friend like it was nothing... i love it!!! the classic rocs and cobras are just as sweet!!

Dave,

A few weeks ago you said that production on Pro TLs had completed, but they hadn't been stamped. What's the timeline for these getting to retailers/ZoneDriven/etc.? My worn-in DX Ts are getting flippy/lost.

Thanks.

Champion anniversary Aviars. poetry in motion. (or on a wall even) :D

jaymo, we have been swamped, but the Pro Orc is coming up soon in the rotation.

goalie33, the TL has gotten delayed because of marketing issues that I don't agree with. Marketing doesn't want Pro Tees and Pro TLs out at the same time. The worry is confusion as has happened in the past. Our intention is to stay with the TL version once it's out. If we can release it in without undue confusion, we will.

Our intention is to stay with the TL version once it's out.

Say it ain't so, Dave!!!! :mad::mad::( :( :( I love the current "T" version! My longest field and course throws to date have been with Pro Teebirds. It has the perfect combination of speed, stability, distance, control, and grippiness for my arm. If the TLs in other plastics are any guide, the Pro TL is going to be too understable for me. :(

SAVE THE Ts!!!!

Dave,
Why don't you just re-name the TeeBird-L something totally different, then people in the "know" will know it is the TeeBird-L and everyone else will think it is a new disc: therefore they will buy it and try it, even if they dont like the Tee-Bird TB.
I still like the orginal idea of the TLS, but I guess Millenuim didn't go for it.
Will the "TL" replace the "TB" in DX too?
I saw on your web-site that the TeeBird TL was going to have a L after it on the hotstamp (Pro TeeBird-L), that can't be any more confusing then the Aviar-x???
Cheers,
Matt

PS- Have you ever considered making the Classic Roc in the KC Roc plastic?

The Pro Orcs are super sweet. Mine is consistently the longest disc in my bag by 10-15 feet, even longer than my Champ Orc of the same weight. When my doubles partner and I throw on the soccer field the Pro Orc is always the longest disc no matter who throws it. Thanks for a great disc!

I agree with Felix. The regular pro TeeBirds are great. It'd be a shame to lose them.

I agree that the TL should have a different name altogether. It does not really fly like a broken in T, it has its own flight characteristics. The T and TL are as different as the Roc and Shark, so I don't think it would be at all inappropriate to name it something different and have both discs in regular production.

I saw on your web-site that the TeeBird TL was going to have a L after it on the hotstamp (Pro TeeBird-L), that can't be any more confusing then the Aviar-x???




There's already both a "Aviar" and "Classic Aviar" on the site as well as a "Roc" and "Classic Roc," "Cobra" and "Classic Cobra" and a "Pro Aviar," "Pro JK Aviar," and "Pro KC Aviar." I don't see why having a "Pro TeeBrid" and a "Pro TL Teebird" would be any more confusing than all of that.

I saw on your web-site that the TeeBird TL was going to have a L after it on the hotstamp (Pro TeeBird-L), that can't be any more confusing then the Aviar-x???






There's already both a "Aviar" and "Classic Aviar" on the site as well as a "Roc" and "Classic Roc," "Cobra" and "Classic Cobra" and a "Pro Aviar," "Pro JK Aviar," and "Pro KC Aviar." I don't see why having a "Pro TeeBrid" and a "Pro TL Teebird" would be any more confusing than all of that.




Exactly!!! Not to mention all the plastic options with the Aviar, and bead options...haha.

felix, no worries, the TL is actually a more stable flyer start to finish. Or...it is a straighter flyer start to finish, however you want to say it.

Exactly!!! Not to mention all the plastic options with the Aviar, and bead options...haha.



Then again, they could be trying to avoid doing that again, in which case giving it a totally different name that doesn't sound anything like TeeBird would be less confusing than just not selling the T and the TL at the same time.

discspeed, the latest design was for a midrange, the Bulldog, however testing has revealed a possible flaw I am working on now. The Orc is not the pinnacle of distance forever. Probably next year, we will have a topper. I am always thinking of control. Sometimes it's shortrange, and sometimes long.



The Bulldog, Dave, tell us more !! :D:D:D

The bulldog is interesting but I want to know about the "topper"

ha

Hi again Dave ,
and what is this large diamater "Hero disc type 235" that just have been approved by PDGA ?

The bulldog is interesting but I want to know about the "topper"



Topper's dog was not a bulldog, it was a St. Bernard. (Dave D. might remember this, but not too many of you younger guys...)

:)

Karl Nehring

This is from memory, without "googling"

The St. Bernard actually belongs to the ghost couple in Topper's house, right? What was there name, the Sterlings?

I liked Leo G. Carroll in "The Man From U.N.C.L.E."!

Hey, Does innova do a package like discraft's misprint package?

the bulldog will only be available in georgia. :D

the bulldog will only be available in georgia. :D

Don't you mean, "... only available in South Carolina (http://www.scsu.edu/)"? After all, SC is the home of Innova East. :p

The Bulldog was designed to be an all around disc. It resembles the Hydra in appearance but is more stable. It does putt well and and does fly as it is supposed to, but there is a problem with new people being able to throw it. It has a relatively deep rim which makes it hard for people accustomed to shallow rims to throw without fluttering and turning over at high speeds.

George and Marrion Kirby with their dog Neil. Cosmo Topper. Don't rember Topper's wifes name. Maybe Harriet. Yes, I am old.

Why, do you always have to change a good thing the pro Teebrid is a good disc, why do you have to change them into the pro TL? This is just like In-NO-va they start you out with a disc and then go and change it. The only thing is they still use the same name or stop making the older version.

George and Marrion Kirby with their dog Neil. Cosmo Topper. Don't rember Topper's wifes name. Maybe Harriet. Yes, I am old.



Mrs. Topper's name was Henrietta.

In the TV show, the Kirbys were played by Fran Jeffries and Robert Sterling. That must be where Exczar got the "Sterling" memory twitch.

(this is from memory, not google....I'm pretty old too!)

--Mike

ooooo, very good. Maybe you can knock that Jeopardy guy off his throne!

Hi again Dave ,
and what is this large diamater "Hero disc type 235" that just have been approved by PDGA ? Intended for golf or.... ?

mf100, the Hero disc is a dog disc I believe. Fastback type. Not sure why they needed approval for disc golf. I think it just comes with general approval for WFDF if the disc meets all specs for golf otherwise.

Was "Mr. Skyler" Topper's boss at the bank? Or am I mixing that up with another show?

Yes, the long range drivers do assume a 400 ft throw. The mid range assume a 330. Putt and Approach assume 250-280.





Dave,
Taking this to the next step; does that mean someone who only throws drivers 300' won't see much difference in the different drivers flight paths? A TeeBird, Beast, Valk, Eagle, Orc etc. will all fly more or less the same for that person?

Dave, Can you PLEASE tell me what the "# 8" stands for on the Wings-n-Rings stamped Classic Rocs? No one else out there seems to know...
Thanks!

hi Dave..Threw the Pro Orc last night {finally} and wanted to tell you I think its a fantastic disc.Since I can no longer find the clear Champion Orcs only the Pearls,i think this will be my go 2 driver.Thanks again and see you in Des Moines.

Why, do you always have to change a good thing the pro Teebrid is a good disc, why do you have to change them into the pro TL? This is just like In-NO-va they start you out with a disc and then go and change it. The only thing is they still use the same name or stop making the older version.



Throw Discraft and stop whining at Dave. I'm sure there are a lot more considerations going into such decisions than you could possibly realize and Dave as no responsibility to defend his and Innova's business decisions to people being jackasses on his thread. Besides, if you phrased your concern respectfully you may actually get an explaination.

Dave, Can you PLEASE tell me what the "# 8" stands for on the Wings-n-Rings stamped Classic Rocs? No one else out there seems to know...
Thanks!

KDiddy, the "8" in the Classic Roc logo commemorates the fact that the "wings'n'Rings" Roc was Innova's eighth disc model (Eagle, Aero, Aviar, XD, Apple, Coupe, Mini, Classic Roc).

Throw Discraft and stop whining at Dave. I'm sure there are a lot more considerations going into such decisions than you could possibly realize and Dave as no responsibility to defend his and Innova's business decisions to people being jackasses on his thread. Besides, if you phrased your concern respectfully you may actually get an explaination.

I agree. Except for the "Throw Discraft" part. :D

Was "Mr. Skyler" Topper's boss at the bank? Or am I mixing that up with another show?



Very good, Dave. Mr. Schyler was Topper's boss as I recall.

--Mike

Thanks Felix!
-Kevin (the other one)

Hawkg, yes, unless they throw light weight. All those drivers would be overstable in heavy weights to a person throwing 300'

yes, unless they throw light weight



Dave,

By light weight are you talking mid 160's or the low 150's?
Thanks.

mid sixties and lower.

Sorry if this has been already asked, search came up with nothing, but I've got a question about the mini star stamp CE Spiders.
How many runs of the CE Spider were put out with the mini star stamp?
What are the give-aways as to define each run?

I have been told that there was only one run, can you confirm this?

Thanks! Jon.

There was only one run. Most of them were white, green, and blue. There were pearly ones and clear ones, but none were totally opaque (as far as I know).

I hope that helps!

not a question.I recently read your interview in DGWN and enjoyed it very much.I just wanted to say thankyou for what you do !! :D:D

Dave..I recently got and love a KC 11x that isnt in champion plastic. It feels alot like a 4x Jk-x I had and dont seem to see many around.Are these new or just new to me? I cant believe more people dont use these.I putt and appraoch with a 9x or a 10x and thiese feel alot better to me.Thanks!

chase, you probably got a rogue KC Aviar if it is different than the usual KC Aviar. The KC Aviar only comes in one plastic, the same plastic as the KC Roc.

This really doesnt seem like KC plastic.Ill show it to you at Worlds if I get the chance to meet you.Thanks Dave.

dave I have a ce - valk with SP marked on the bottom, is this merely a mis-mark or does this have relevance?

esalazar, just a mismark.

thanks dave!!!! keep doing what you do!!!!!!!!! :D:D

Dave, I just finished a quick 9 holes and just had to say "Way to go" on the Orcs. They are a blast to throw. I love to flex my 172 Champion out for some major D.

Keep up the great designs! :D

PT Woods
# 20431

dave whats up with the Orcs that arent Champion and arent Pro either? A friend picked up 2 out of town yesterday and they feel like Pro Line {the discontinued Pro plastic} Beasts.It is a totally different plastic than either of the 2 I have.That putter I was refering to couldnt have been KC plastic.It hit a stick on the ground and gouged a 1 1/2 inch chunk out of the side and is now useless.

Dave,
I was just wondering why there are only 3 discs made out of the hard KC Pro Plastic; the Roc, Aviar and the Whippet?
I love that plastic and would love to see some other discs in it, like the Classic Roc, Gator, or Leopard.
Cheers,
Matt

Matt, we had to limit which discs to use it with as it is difficult to work with.

Look I'm not trying to be disrespectful to any one, I'm only trying to figure some things out about Innova and some of the decision that they as a company make and since Dave Dunipace is the founder of Innova I thought this thread would be a good place to start. In respond to the post about throwing all Discraft I can only say that I throw the best disc (Innova, Discraft, DGA, and even gateway) for the shot, but I manly throw Innova. This is why I asked the previous question about why Innova always changes there disc to a new mold when the old one was doing just fine.

P.S. Sorry if any of you thought that my last post was disrespectful in any way I has just trying to ask a question, and while I'm at it Thank you for all the time you put into this thread Dave.

This is why I asked the previous question about why Innova always changes there disc to a new mold when the old one was doing just fine.

My guess is that Innova is responding to:
a) how well a given model's actual flight characteristics conform to the intended or desired flight characteristics;
b) the needs/desires of sponsored players;
c) overall demand, as measured by the marketplace as a whole.

Oh yea sorry about the In-NO-va thing I was just a little upset that another disc I liked was going to change.

I know everyone always makes requests for their favorite disc in their favorite plastic "please Dave make a candy gopher, pleeeese..."etc. And in an effort not to sound like that I was wondering if a candy Pegasus has ever been considered, or is it too banshee-like? I would think the really overstable, gliding Peggy-Sue would maybe find new popularity today with everyone throwing more stable plastic. Or is the mold just too old fashioned? Otherwise thanks for all you guys do there at Innova!

candy gophers? WOW

ok enough sarcasm but on second thought, they would be fun for playing catch

Adam, the mold is too old fashioned and with the Banshee and Firebird now being outdistanced by the Monster, the Pegasus would not have much of a market. That being said, I would like to have all of our older molds available at some point in time to people like you who miss their old favorites that have been discontinued. So far, time to mold them has been scarce.

Hey thanks Dave, that makes sense, especially considering it wasn't much of a seller when it was still being made...

just curious, any idea how long it will be before the 20th anniversary Aviar is available?

robj, the 20th aniversary Aviars are being stamped now and will be available at the World's Fly mart in limited quantities. Not sure what the total number is right now.

Dave Do you plan to run more Champion Wippets?

robj, the 20th aniversary Aviars are being stamped now and will be available at the World's Fly mart in limited quantities. Not sure what the total number is right now.



Dave, would you sign one for me at the flymart?

Dave,
Thanks for last year's copper champion cobra. Besides the 20th year anniversary Aviar, what else can I expect at the Fly Mart? Last year I barely got a cobra because I wasn't in the know. Any surprises I need to know about.
Looking forward to seeing you and your lion-like locks. KL

robj, the 20th aniversary Aviars are being stamped now and will be available at the World's Fly mart in limited quantities. Not sure what the total number is right now.



What are they? SB och BB�s? Which plastic? Are they going to be available anywhere else except the Worlds? Webshops?

Chase, no plans at this time, but that could change in the future.

rob, be glad to if I am at the fly mart. Otherwise, you could catch me somewhere.

Kenny, as far as I know, the Aviars are the only thing. The East coast might be bringing something that I don't know about.

mf100, they are gold Champion Aviars with a commemorative stamp. The Champion Aviar is a BB putter. The plastic is the same as the second run. It is fairly grippy and doesnt bounce like other candy.

Thanks Dave....any word on the number run for those anniversary putters?

chase, we havent settled on a total number, but it will be more than 1000 and less than 3000. Probably around 2000 total.

How much will they run, Dave? The 20th aviars that is..

Dave,
Whats up w/ gold plastic? I know its not very common. Just wondering because I picked up a gold champ rhyno at my local disc retailer a month or so back. Was this an accident that they got it? Is there gold plastic out there and we just dont get it around here? Just wondering.
thanks,
Rodney

Rodney, we don't run gold usually except for trophies or other commemorative discs. You got an unusual disc.

Wow, cool. Thanks Dave.

Rodney, they are circulating in NC apparently. Got one through PRDT couple of months ago. Also Champ Rhyno. Pretty cool swirly gold with a rainbow stamp. Enjoying it in the window. Afraid it would disappear in the woods.

The only reason I bought it was cos it was gold. Up till then the onlt gold disc I had seen was a gold spec ed t-bird my buddy got at the USDGC a few years ago. I didnt think they were all too common.

Mines the swirly gold w/ the raonbow foil too. makes ya wonder just how many of em are out there.

Same here Rodney. Just thought it looked cool and had never seen one. Likewise, it was the only one Todd had.

Hey if we print this thread and put it w/ the disc and list both on Ebay I wonder how much we could draw. On second thought, who cares it will look cooler on the wall when noone else has em.

Rodney, we don't run gold usually except for trophies or other commemorative discs. You got an unusual disc.


Dave,
Are the copper colored disc's the same as these gold disc's?
I've got some 7 or 8 Time KC Gazelle's that are copper. Thx

Hey Dave,

I am wondering if JK Aviar-x's are likely to come out in a 5x edition? With World's occuring I am reminded there is always the chance we may be looking at 6x's and more, so I am curious.

Well Dave, I know you are taring it up at Worlds, so you wont respond for a while, but I wanted to ask you anyways... Dx Orc??? is it going to happen, or are there a lot more things on the list in front of that??

I was throwing my Champ Orcs, and my Dx Valkyries... and I wished that I could have that combination in a disc.

Thanks for answering, eventually. :D

Would a pro orc fit that bill?

maybe... haven't tried it yet... but I just love Dx for max D throws. we'll see of course. :D

Jaymo,
Try the Pro Orc is it awesome!
Cheers,
Matt

Dave...It was great to finally meet you in person and I just wanted to say thanks for chatting and Thanks for the 20th aniv. They are SWEET.

Dave, any BS Pro ( :p) plastic in the future?

Hi Dave,
do you know when the Bulldog will hit the shops, is it made in PRo, Dx or Champion plastic?

flynvegas, I don't know which discs you are referring to but for the last year or so we have only used one gold color. We used it on the Gold Cobras last year and the Aviars this year.

robj, the JK Aviars won't have an edition for the next run. They will just say JK Aviar. The same goes for the KC Rocs and KC Aviars.

jaymo, we are not planning a dx Orc at this time, but we are testing a new dx material that does last longer. This may eventually lead to a DX Orc, just not now.

shanest, not with that name per se, but we may give Barry another endorsement disc. He won his second worlds, and has been a great ambassador for us.

mf100, the Bulldog has been delayed. Still in the testing phase.

So Dave are the KC ROCS with 11x stamp older than the ones that have no 11x world champion?

yes--kc rocs w/o 11x stamp are newest.. hey dave--do you remember how light the pro orcs were molded in? any 150?

Dave, it was great finally getting to meet you. Thanks for signing my 20th aniversary Aviar. And thanks for answering all our questions and making the greatest discs!

chase, yes.

Dave I have two Champion Orcs both the same weight. One is blue and the other is white. My blue one is more overstable than my white one. Is there a reason for this.

hope the dx plastic turns out ok. I would hate for it to become to slick or turn out different discs. Is now a good time to ask for you guys to look for more kc plastic. If you guys could find enough it could actually become a whole line including drivers, which i believe would be quite the day.

topdog, there is a reason, but I don't know it. The most stable of the Champion Orcs were opaque blue. It seems as if different colors produce different results at different times. The more exotic the design (flatter and sharper), the more this happens.

intensa, the new dx mix is grippy and a little stiffer. The new stuff seems to take more abuse than the old.

Topdog,
I�ve a red and a white both 173grams, the white is much more stable, I wouldn�t call the overstable though especially compared to the Champion Orcs, (oops wrong thread... maybe)! :D

Dave, I know the run of Pro TL's was postponed awhile back but I saw a couple on ebay just recently, are they out? If so where can I get some.

robj, the JK Aviars won't have an edition for the next run. They will just say JK Aviar. The same goes for the KC Rocs and KC Aviars.



Interesting. How soon do you think we'll see this next run of JK Aviar-x's? :D

willie, no they are not out yet. Don't know about the ones on EBay.

robj, not for a couple of months.

This thread is being started to answer the questions asked at the Innova Champion's Night held during the World Championships in Des Moines.

Due to the high demand for all the champion's signatures, plus the World's Bag Tag Drawing, there was not enough time to have the question and answer session with Dave, Harold, Sam, Tim and Jonathan.

The questions will be asked and answered here.

Thanks again to all those who attended, and especially to all the past and present champions who participated. All the champions played two rounds that day and most did not have a chance to get dinner before showing up.

From Pete "The Racquetman" May:

For Dave,

In order of importance for distance? Strength, technique, practice. Please expand.


From Gary C:

For Harold,

How are you able to be so creative after all the holes you have designed?

From Cory Hill, Advance Women:

When will you bring the SE Valkyries back in production?
Please, please, please! :)

From Dan Howard:

When will we see a candy Ram?

From Dan Mueller #14270:

Why no more "gummy" Beasts?

Pete, technique, practice, then strength are the order I would put them in. Technique is most important because therein lies efficiency for both imparting energy to the disc, and using the energy most efficiently in the proper flight pattern for the particular disc and wind conditions. Practice can help to hone technique, but practicing the wrong technique will make you better at throwing wrong. Strength can help, but flexibility and quickness are more important and again go back to technique.

Cory, I don't know exactly when, but we will definitely bring SE type Valkyries back. Probably by November. They will go into the Pro catagory as the Pro Valkyrie. Expect them to be a little less stable at high speeds and to have more carry.

Dan, sorry, no candy Ram is planned at this time.

Dan, we still make gummy Beasts in lighter weight Champions.

Dan, sorry, no candy Ram is planned at this time.


I'll say it again: get a candy CFR Viper if you want a Candy RAM. :)

Dan,

Next time i see you i'll give you my CFR Viper to use for a while.. i never use it anymore anyway.

Erick

From Mike Robbins:

Are Champion Gremlins comming out?

From Matt Thomas:

Why are some Eagles not marked as Eagle Leopard?

From Justin Ashton:

How do you have time to answer questions via email?

From Frank:

How long have you been playing?

From Andrew Chisholm:

Why are 150 class Champion discs so hard to come by?

From Brooke Plantz:

Will you ever run hard plastic Rocs again?

This anonymous question is for Dave, Harold, Tim, Johathan & Sam:

What do you think about the headquarters moving to Augusta, GA?

This question is for everyone from Jason Althoff:

What's the best way to warm up before a round?

A question for Harold Duvall from Clint McClellan:

What does champagne taste like out of a 40 Mold?

For Harold Duvall from Joe Levell:

Are the USDGC sponsor packages available yet?

For Harold Duvall from Fletch:

How many different courses have you played?

To Tim Selinske from Bret B:

How long have you been playing? Year?

To Tim Selinske from Mike Hubbard:

What do you think about the possibility of a Grand Slam Coast to Coast tournament for Open Pro?

To Tim from anonymous:

What is the best disc for a female beginner?

Dave...will we ever see the 20th aniv. availible again perhaps in different colors,or was the worlds edition all? Thanks!

I haver a Roc from the Ice Bowl 2002 that I won. Is it a KC Roc? It seems like it. It feels a lot like the 10X I have.

PT Woods
# 20431

I can answer this one.

The Ice Bowl disc is not a KC Roc. We have not had any KC Rocs stamped with an Ice Bowl stamp. It should be a regular DX Roc.

John Chapman
Disc Golf World

Chase, that was all that will be made. 2500 in all I believe. All Gold.

Mike, not soon if they do at all.

Matt, most Eagles are not EL. ELs are a slightly less stable version of the Eagle.

Justin, I make time usually before work or after. Sometimes during lunch.

Frank, I have been playing disc golf since 1977 at La Mirada shortly after they installed the basket course. Before that, I started playing frisbee in 1958.

Andrew, 150 Class are difficult to make in our drivers. We end up making half rejects so we are not too motivated sometimes.

Brooke, we do make hard plastic KC Rocs. The new run of DX that we are running now is stiffer than prior runs, but I don't know if it is as stiff as you would like it.

I think moving the headquarters to the complex in Augusta is a good thing mostly because of Brian Graham who will oversee everthing and make sure it is done right. Also there is great promise of creating four world class courses in one spot, ensuring quality courses for the worlds and reducing driving for competitors.

Jason, personally I would recommend stretching first, then playing catch at close range, then moving farther away.

I think moving the PDGA headquarters to Augusta is very promising. The only negative I am aware of at this point is the fact that Brian and Laurie are having a difficult time getting the proper work visas to allow them to relocate along with the offices. This is another situation affected by the 9/11 attacks. The Augusta facility sounds like it is going to be great. The facility will be a showcase for our sport. It will have the ability to host world class events as well as be a first class teaching facility and hopefully a test ground for course design and other disc golf enhancing activities. All of this is being made possible through the hard work of Brian Graham and his association and cooperation with the folks in the City of Augusta. Without Brian Graham spearheading this project we would all still be talking about hoping to find a place to start the dream. Thanks to Brian we are very close to starting the dream. I hope everyone will have a chance to enjoy the facility once it is open. <font color="black"> </font>

For Sam Ferrans from Sue B Sue:

Why are your lighter weight discs so hard to get? 150-162

An answer to Sue B Sue from Sam Ferrans:

Sue,

Due to production challenges with Champion plastic, it is difficult to produce quantities of lighter discs. We are improving and noticing that there is an increased demand for the lighter Champion plastic. In DX plastic, 90% of our models are available in the lighter weights. Consult your local dealer for information.

A question for Dave, Harold and Sam from Ken Rollins:

Will Innova ever consider sponsoring Am players much like the Pro players? (Am Innova Team?)

To everyone from Josh Romine:

When do you know you're ready to move to open?

For everyone from Robin Brit:

How often do you practice?

From Kyle Hill:

Why did you change the style and run of the CE plastic?

From Wilbur:

How far will a disc ever be thrown? (Allowing for future disc advancement.)

hey dave--any thoughts of mixing in a little champ plastic to the proline to make the discs a little stiffer and more durable ala some of the 10x teebirds and eagles? it could maybe decrease the dome factor a little as well--what do you think?

An answer to Ken Rollins from Sam Ferrans:

Dear Ken,

Innova actively scouts promising players regardless of division. What we look for is a recommendation from a current Innova Team member and a player's rating. Touring schedules also come into consideration.

There may be an opportunity in the future to have an Amateur Innova Team as well as our Professional Teams. If you have any feedback or recommendations, please send an email to:

teaminnova@innovadiscs.com

Hey Dave, i bought a supersoft Spider a while back and i'm wondering if these are still made?

steven, already did it. Second run of Pro Rocs has it. New run of Pro Orcs going now.

Jayson, spiders are normally run in regular DX and Champion, though we will probably have Pro in the future too. Super soft was an abberation. Don't know if we will do it in the future.

Josh, to be a regularly cashing open pro, you need a rating of about 1000. You can compete and cash sometimes with a rating of about 970. If your rating is lower than that, you compete for the experience. You're ready when you're ready to complete regardless of your rating.

I only practice once a week and it's not enough. If you are asking how often a pro generally needs to practice to maintain his skills, I would say at least three times a week minimum.

Kyle, we use the same plastic now as then, but it is mixed with a secondary plastic to make it slightly softer in order to make the PDGA flex standard. Also we use another plastic in the mix for lighter weights.

Wilbur, discs have already been thrown over 900 ft in heavy wind situations. I don't doubt that the world record will exceed 1000 ft some day.

Wow, a second Dave Dunipace, just as knowledgeable as the first! What are the odds?!? :D


Kyle, we use the same plastic now as then, but it is mixed with a secondary plastic to make it slightly softer in order to make the PDGA flex standard. Also we use another plastic in the mix for lighter weights


Dave2, might one infer from this the possibility of [older] Innova discs being used in competition which would likely fail the flex test?

Hi Bret,

I was fortunate to discover disc sports in 1976. I was also lucky to learn from some of the best players in the world at that time. In those days you played just about every discipline, so I learned to Play Ultimate, Guts, all of the field events, Disc Golf and even Freestyle (now that is a scary picture)! I was also lucky to happen to live in the Pasadena area, home to the World's first permanent disc golf course. Before I discovered baskets, I learned to play disc golf by throwing at objects on the street that I grew up on. That was early 1976 and we played with Wham-o Super Pros. i didn't discover Wham-o World Class models until later that year. So I guess the answer to your question is early 1976. Thanks for asking.

If you mean one tournament that goes from coast to coast, then I would say it sounds a bit crazy. It could be a great publicity stunt for disc golf but it would need a method of funding. What do you envision as the goal of such an event? Our sport as a whole has had limited success generating funds for our events and some of the so-called "Pros" don't make an effort to reach out to potential sponsors or spectators to increase the awareness of disc golf and the excitement of competitions.

I am of the opinion that the best disc for any beginner, male or female is a 130 to 150 gram Aero. It is very user friendly, it is easy to grip and throw, and it is not extremely low speed over stable like all of the high speed drivers that are available. It is not a weak disc either. Back iin the mid 1980's the Aero held the world distance at over 500 feet. The only negative I can come up with for the Aero is that it is not a great disc in the wind.

OMG, Tim Selinske posting? What's next? :)


(Hi Tim)

Dear Gary -

While I have a relatively consistent set of design criteria, I do not try to impose my will or preconceived hole designs on to the site. Rather, my role as a course designer is to bring out for view and play in a fair way the unique or special elements of each piece of property. I am not really creating per se, but finding what God already put into place. Since no two sites are alike, not two courses or holes will be alike if I do my job correctly.

Take care,


Harold

Hey Clint -

Champagne tastes nasty out of a 40 Mold. Drinking it at the sponsor's request has not soured the memory of my first world championship, but it has cemented my feeling that disc golf is cool enough to create its own traditions and that we do not need to adopt the trappings of other sports unless they add to the disc golf experience.

Take care,

Harold

Hey Frank -

I have been playing disc golf since 1977. Our high school had frisbee as a PE elective. We played object golf at a beautiful place called Lacy Park. Tim and I both owe a lot to the Frisbee teacher, Jon Imamura (Mr. I.)

I played disc golf in overall tournaments in the late 70's and early 80's, but the first World Championship in 1982 was my first disc golf only tournament. I joined the PDGA as I registered for the event.

Take care,


Harold

Hey Fletch -

With the help of the course directory, I was able to recall 150 courses that I have played.

Take care,

Harold

Thanks Dave...will this new mix be like the Orcs Ive been seeing that arent quite Champion/ Not quite Pro but are stamped with the Champion Orc logo? Im sure youve answered questions about these before,Ive personally only seen 3 and have seen a few on Ebay.I heard these were actually out of the older Pro plastic,like the first Pro Line Beasts,Monsters,ect.

steven, already did it. Second run of Pro Rocs has it. New run of Pro Orcs going now.



You added in some champion plastic??? AWESOME! are those Pro "super rocs" or "classic rocs" and if they are super, are they going to be fundraisers for worlds? When will the orcs be out??? and how will an internet customer be able to tell the difference???

thanks in advance dave. :D

Pro Spiders. Yea!

Chase, no, these are a new run.

Jaymo, the Pro Rocs are going to be fund raisers for Worlds. The new run of Pro Orcs should be out in a few weeks. I don't know how you tell the difference over the internet unless your dealer is knowledgable. You could tell the difference side by side easily. The first run was softer and very grippy. The latest run is between the feel of candy and the first run. It is a little stiffer, not as grippy, and more durable.

slo, the discs in question were the original candy valks and firebirds. we were informed by the pdga that they were borderline so we changed the formula to make sure we complied as variations could put some over the edge. The discs were never considered illegal.

From C.B. (unable to read last name)

What's the latest in disc technology?

Along the same line from Brian:

What disc is next following in the Orc mold?

To all ya from Greg Goben #15490:

Why can't you bring back the KC Pro Firebirds? I love to throw these, but from some satanic reason I've lost many and now am down to a precious few that I can't throw.

To Harold from Steve "Dig" King:

How come the local convenience stores are under selling the local clubs and how can we address that?

A request to Harold from Cory Hill:

Please start making Women's apparel available for all women, not just sponsored pros.

From Shaine Power:

Is there ever going to be a re-run of the CE plastic?

From Dustin Warren:

Who was the first deaf disc golf player?

From Tom Blackburn:

What is the scientific discipline that tells you how far off your drive is at 50ft, 100ft, 200ft?

From Bo Nash:

How does the East Coast get people sponsored by you?

From Lydie Lykke Hellgren:

What do you require to sponsor a Pro Woman?