Dave,
If you see S Johnson at the Worlds could you please ask him when he's going to release his book on golf discs?

Thx



I talked to his assistant at World's and he indicated it was still a year away.

Maybe the <font color="white"> LIGHT</font> and DARK side can collaborate toward a Star Comet! :o:eek: :eek: :cool:



A Star Coyote is close, inbetween a Dark side Comet and a Dark side Buzzz, but it is a pure breed without any clone ingredients :eek: :p . and then there is the QMS or Aurora MS which is straighter than a Comet and also has never colluded with the Dark side :o:D :p

what i would love to see, after putting a QMS back in the bag -- is a Star QMS. Dave, any chance of that ever happening?



A Star QMS would be called a Sirius MS, and it would be seriously good, I think. I believe Millennium should drop the regular MS in favor of the Sirius. But, it is up to them. I am definitely in favor of a Serious Sirius MS, and a Sirius MF for that matter.

Dave, is the STAR Monster the same as the champion Monster? The Disc looks a lot different than either of the 2 champion Monster molds.



The Star Monster is the same type as the third run of Champ Monsters. The first run is in between 2nd and third. The 2nd run X type had more concavity in the beveled edge. The Star plastic might have set up differently than the Champion, to give the appearance of a different mold, but it's the same as the third run Champ. If they look different, I would expect them to fly different too. I would expect the Star to be a little less low speed overstable, but I have not tested them against each other. I tested the Star Monster by itself and was satisfied that it was Monsterish, like the first and third run. I edited this from my original post when I found out that a retool affecting the Beast also affected the Monster.

Dave,

My Star Aviar has cut through chains three times in my last four tourney rounds causing my card mates to exclaim,


Dude that's a once in a career happening.
I can't believe what I just saw.
No way that was perfect.



Is the plastic too slick? Would I be better off with a DX putter? Am I just too strong to putt?

Thanks.



Yes, to avoid cut throughs, you would be better off with DX plastic or JK Plastic. This is especially true if the chains are wet with dew or rain.

Glad you're back Dave! Sorry, but we had to entertain ourselves in your absence... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D

Dave, I've been saving my questions for 263 pages. The guys have asked when, color & blend for KC12X? I'm asking; new stamp? Mold? Thanks



Same blend and mold. Different stamp denoting 12X. Color; mostly white.

Wonder when? :) Thanks!
Axis

hello Dave--are you going to do another run of champion gators? will you be running star? thanks



We will be running Star Gators. I don't know about Champion yet, but because some people like Champion, and some like Star, I think we will probably do both.

Wonder when? :) Thanks!
Axis



Don't know yet.

thanks Dave. i throw champ gators and love them. i am willing to try star when they come out, hopefully they will be fairly rigid like the champ, which works better for me for sidearm approaches, as the dx seems to flutter more with my release, and is a good bit less overstable. i probably use the dx more overall, but the overstability of the champ is crucial for me sometimes. any timeline for the star gators? thx again

star gators?



groovy. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

So you are saying it is going to be the same hot stamp just saying 12X correct? Does the same go for Big Bead KC Aviars?

That is what the disc golfers out there want I believe from other threads I read so far.

Yikes,
Then those new "no X" KC Rocs will be hard to get!

ontario rocs as the 12x would be amazing, and keep running the no x ranchos.

12x Gremlins! :p

So you are saying it is going to be the same hot stamp just saying 12X correct? Does the same go for Big Bead KC Aviars?

That is what the disc golfers out there want I believe from other threads I read so far.



We got away from the X thing as it made stock hard to handle, but I think we are going back to it. 12X is a good thing to tout. (Not that 11X wasn't also) We may redesign completely. Haven't decided yet. Most likely, the Aviars will be first, if they get a redesign, as they will probably be run first, unless the TeeBirds haven't been stamped yet.

A Star QMS would be called a Sirius MS, and it would be seriously good, I think. I believe Millennium should drop the regular MS in favor of the Sirius. But, it is up to them. I am definitely in favor of a Serious Sirius MS, and a Sirius MF for that matter.



if they won't do it and you decide to pay to have a run made for your own use, i'll buy a couple from you :eek: :D :D

the only thing i don't like about the QMS is it feels a little sharp in my hand, and i'm betting the Star (Sirius) plastic would be the perfect remedy for that! keep us posted if Millenium decides to produce it.

Wow I'm a big fan of the original 10X/11X/8X/9X stamps.

As long as you are at least acknowledging the KC 12X I hope. He deserves it and the disc golf community is accustomed to it throughout the years.

Josh

Well .................no one else ( I think ) has a Dozen World Championships !!! :eek:

The New Kenny Dozen Stamp !!!! :D

Try this link ...........

http://www.discgolftv.com/

Dave,

how long will it probably be before we see Star Roadrunners for sale?

You can buy them now at discgolfvalues.com Mark has CFR's.

Or check here ...........

http://www.discgolfvalues.com/home.htm

I'm still hoping for Star Whippets !!!!! :D

Me too.

Til then, we can dream:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6022/whippetgw7.jpg

:eek:

Dave,

how long will it probably be before we see Star Roadrunners for sale?



The Champion is being run now, so we will run some after we are through. Don't know if it will be a run big enough to go mainstream or stay in tournament fundraising. Earliest will be three or four weeks probably, if they go to fundraising. A week or two longer for mainstream.

Dave, I am a Goblin-lover. Been throwing them since they came out.

Just got a Star Goblin from Mark M., mostly because the DX beats up too fast at DeLaveaga...too many trees! Anyway, I think the Star Goblin is too domey. It seems more understable than it should be. I'm guessing it was made more domey to try to balance out the extra stability of the Star plastic...but it is just a bit too domey. What are your thoughts on this? Any chance of flatter Star Goblins being run?

Thanks, good job cashing at the Worlds!

-E

Maybe the PDGA has its hands tied in this manner, but I think Brad's sponsor (Innova) should consider dropping him. Why would they want that kind of image from one of their reps??
If Innova makes the right choice and drops him maybe it would teach him a lesson and send a message to all those looking for sponsorship

Dave
there is a lot of talk going on about one of your Sponsored palyer on the Pdga Worlds thread, this qoute came from that thread.Is this something Innova is considering ( cutting Brad from team Innova )

Dave, I am a Goblin-lover. Been throwing them since they came out.

Just got a Star Goblin from Mark M., mostly because the DX beats up too fast at DeLaveaga...too many trees! Anyway, I think the Star Goblin is too domey. It seems more understable than it should be. I'm guessing it was made more domey to try to balance out the extra stability of the Star plastic...but it is just a bit too domey. What are your thoughts on this? Any chance of flatter Star Goblins being run?

Thanks, good job cashing at the Worlds!

-E



Probably not going to run any more Star Goblins as the Skeeter came out and does just about everything better than the Goblin. We will run Star and DX Skeeters. I recommend trying the Skeeter when it comes out in Star.

Maybe the PDGA has its hands tied in this manner, but I think Brad's sponsor (Innova) should consider dropping him. Why would they want that kind of image from one of their reps??
If Innova makes the right choice and drops him maybe it would teach him a lesson and send a message to all those looking for sponsorship

Dave
there is a lot of talk going on about one of your Sponsored palyer on the Pdga Worlds thread, this qoute came from that thread.Is this something Innova is considering ( cutting Brad from team Innova )



We spoke to the course Marshall (Jon Lyksett), and others at the course.
Other than saying that we are concerned about the matter, I would rather not comment on any disciplinary matters.

Dave,

Thanks for your donations of the SKeeter and Shark in the worlds players packs.

Can you give a brief descrption of the skeeter and what it will do?

[/QUOTE]

Probably not going to run any more Star Goblins as the Skeeter came out and does just about everything better than the Goblin. We will run Star and DX Skeeters. I recommend trying the Skeeter when it comes out in Star.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I saw the Skeeter advertized on the Innova site, and am very intrigued. Can you comment specifically on the differences between the Skeeter and Goblin? When will the Skeeter be available in Star?

Thanks, E

The Skeeter is pretty fast. Slightly faster and more float then the Goblin.

Star Skeeter would be interesting !!!! :D


I gotta get my hands on a few of these ................
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6022/whippetgw7.jpg

When are we going to see Star Eagles??????

Probably not going to run any more Star Goblins as the Skeeter came out and does just about everything better than the Goblin. We will run Star and DX Skeeters. I recommend trying the Skeeter when it comes out in Star.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I saw the Skeeter advertized on the Innova site, and am very intrigued. Can you comment specifically on the differences between the Skeeter and Goblin? When will the Skeeter be available in Star?

Thanks, E

[/QUOTE]

The Skeeter is similar to the Goblin in size and structure. It flies basically the same, but is a little faster and a little more torque resistant. Straight shots go straight, hyzers hyzer gently without much low speed fade, turnovers stay turned over unless thrown with significant nose up. We are still running the DX version, and will run Star when we are done. Probably in about a week and a half.

When are we going to see Star Eagles??????




ooooooooooh yeah

that would be hot!

When are we going to see Star Eagles??????




ooooooooooh yeah

that would be hot!



September or October

E's or EL's or both? I would hope both.

And Star Whippet's??? Mmmm.

what's the story on the no X KC Pro Roc. Of the 6+ KC Pro's in our house There is only one No X My son can't remember where it came from. Not sure if it was pay-out or a purchase. would love any info/story on these No X KC Pro Roc's

Also can't wait for the 12X

E's or EL's or both? I would hope both.

And Star Whippet's??? Mmmm.



ELs would be mainstream. Any EXs we made would go to fundraising for tournaments.

what's the story on the no X KC Pro Roc. Of the 6+ KC Pro's in our house There is only one No X My son can't remember where it came from. Not sure if it was pay-out or a purchase. would love any info/story on these No X KC Pro Roc's

Also can't wait for the 12X



The no X was probably the latest stamp. We thought Kenny's stamps were getting cluttered with titles and tried to simplify it. His stamp should read 12X World and 4X USDGC Champion as the USDGC is just as significant. Maybe we will put that on the next stamp: 12X World and 4X USDGC Champion Ken Climo

Thanks for the info. 12X & 4X would be a great stamp.

I'd like to see a stamp something like this...
"12 World Championships
4 US Championships
1 Ken Climo
1 Roc"

I'd like to see a stamp something like this...
"12 World Championships
4 US Championships
1 Ken Climo
1 Roc"



12 World Championships
4 US Championships
2 Really wierd ears
1 Ken Climo

That would be hot

2 Really wierd ears



C'mon now. Those are 2 Royal ears worthy of the king he's become. (ref Prince Charles)

if you ask kenny about them he will say they are the same sie as everyone elses, his just go out not in.

kind of like me. I'm the same size as Mike Hofmann. He just goes up, I go out.

2 Really wierd ears



C'mon now. Those are 2 Royal ears worthy of the king he's become. (ref Prince Charles)





No kidding he's no dumbo........hehe

Dave, How about a special run of 12X 4X KC Rocs in STAR Plastic? :) Please. I'm sure they will sell! :DRuss3523

You should probably hold off till after this years USDGC. It might keep you from having to change the stamp yet again.

very true. or a run of 3X USDGC BS stamps. hehe

Nice................

12X World - 4X USDGC
Champion
Ken Climo

what's the story on the no X KC Pro Roc. Of the 6+ KC Pro's in our house There is only one No X My son can't remember where it came from. Not sure if it was pay-out or a purchase. would love any info/story on these No X KC Pro Roc's

Also can't wait for the 12X



The no X was probably the latest stamp. We thought Kenny's stamps were getting cluttered with titles and tried to simplify it. His stamp should read 12X World and 4X USDGC Champion as the USDGC is just as significant. Maybe we will put that on the next stamp: 12X World and 4X USDGC Champion Ken Climo



Why not just skip to the chase... "Disc Golf God, Ken Climo!"

what's the story on the no X KC Pro Roc. Of the 6+ KC Pro's in our house There is only one No X My son can't remember where it came from. Not sure if it was pay-out or a purchase. would love any info/story on these No X KC Pro Roc's

Also can't wait for the 12X



The no X was probably the latest stamp. We thought Kenny's stamps were getting cluttered with titles and tried to simplify it. His stamp should read 12X World and 4X USDGC Champion as the USDGC is just as significant. Maybe we will put that on the next stamp: 12X World and 4X USDGC Champion Ken Climo



Why not just skip to the chase... "Disc Golf God, Ken Climo!"



The Latin for King is Rex. A three letter word with E in the center. Ken-Rex.
Climo and Champ are both five letters starting with C and with an M in fourth position. ChaMp-CliMo. Coincidences?

what's the story on the no X KC Pro Roc. Of the 6+ KC Pro's in our house There is only one No X My son can't remember where it came from. Not sure if it was pay-out or a purchase. would love any info/story on these No X KC Pro Roc's

Also can't wait for the 12X



The no X was probably the latest stamp. We thought Kenny's stamps were getting cluttered with titles and tried to simplify it. His stamp should read 12X World and 4X USDGC Champion as the USDGC is just as significant. Maybe we will put that on the next stamp: 12X World and 4X USDGC Champion Ken Climo



Why not just skip to the chase... "Disc Golf God, Ken Climo!"



The Latin for King is Rex. A three letter word with E in the center. Ken-Rex.
Climo and Champ are both five letters starting with C and with an M in fourth position. ChaMp-CliMo. Coincidences?



You should come up with a special plastic for the T-Rex and call it the 12X K-Rex.

Hi Dave,
any news or time-schedule on the Star Tee-Rex X and dx Tee-Rex ( With Dino-stamp)?

With this year's Worlds a bit tainted with a few acts of resounding poor sportmanship, Ken Climo is a pillar of strength for our beloved sport. I am so thankful that the very best disc golfer is also the best sportsman. I think Innova should create another tier of sponsership exclusively for Kenny ;). Clearwater should also be renamed St. Climo!

Hi Dave

Reading the last post, is there a big demand for a more overstable "X" mold teerex? I remember when the monster x came out and was a completely different...um, monster?
How did the limited run of the champion and star X teerex's go over with the fans?

BTw, if you are making the star whippet, how is it going to compare to a couple of discs: whippet (dx) whippet (champ) and obviously, the ram?

Dave, I don't know if this has been asked but... I really love the new DX plastic, especially for the Wraith when I need the D, they are longer than my Star's and Pro's, but don't mind if it goes in the drink, so is there any plans for Starfire or SL in DX? They are my two favorite drivers and they would be money in DX! Thanks

Hi Dave,
any news or time-schedule on the Star Tee-Rex X and dx Tee-Rex ( With Dino-stamp)?



The DX TeeRex is up soon. Star TeeRex X will get done when we run Star TeeRexes again. Not sure when it will happen. I do see a need for both types of Star TeeRexs. The Star TeeRexs I was playing with in Augusta were like good TeeBirds on steroids. Not particularly over stable. I liked them a lot, but I can see that big arms might want a little more overstability. TeeRexs are not like Monsters. We do have another Monsterlike faster disc in the works, but it is going to have to wait for production time.

I've been throwing 150g DX TeeRex for a couple of weeks now & my longest throws EVER come using it. And the skip . . . whoa, Nelly!

Dave, I don't know if this has been asked but... I really love the new DX plastic, especially for the Wraith when I need the D, they are longer than my Star's and Pro's, but don't mind if it goes in the drink, so is there any plans for Starfire or SL in DX? They are my two favorite drivers and they would be money in DX! Thanks



Yes, we plan on making the Starfire in DX, but don't have it on the schedule as yet.

Dave, I was on the Innova page this afternoon, and I noticed that Brad's picture wasn't among the champions at worlds. When I went to the team page, his profile wasn't there. I thought I saw Brad's pic up earlier this week, so has he been removed from the Innova team?

I've been throwing 150g DX TeeRex for a couple of weeks now & my longest throws EVER come using it. And the skip . . . whoa, Nelly!



What! I had no idea they existed, sounds like a handy disc.

Heck it was still up there this morning ... either kicked off for good or another suspension from the team???

The Latin for King is Rex. A three letter word with E in the center. Ken-Rex.
Climo and Champ are both five letters starting with C and with an M in fourth position. ChaMp-CliMo. Coincidences?



You should come up with a special plastic for the T-Rex and call it the 12X K-Rex.



how about a KC TeeRex with a pic of Climo's head on a TeeRex body? :D or -- to go completely over the top, have the Climo-headed TeeRex stepping on courses and 'tiny' competitors like Godzilla taking Tokyo :D

to top it off -- have 12 different stamp variations (like Led Zep's In Thru the Out Door album cover... not sure how many variations of that there were though) to push sales and E-Bay prices through the roof :eek:

Check out the Bite Shoes website.

This is how a champ is rewarded! (12 time champ actually!)

http://www.biteshoes.com/

2 Really wierd ears



C'mon now. Those are 2 Royal ears worthy of the king he's become. (ref Prince Charles)



from what i understand your ears are your best "sensor" for wind direction and speed. maybe those "wierd" ears are actually superior....hmmmm.

Dave, I was on the Innova page this afternoon, and I noticed that Brad's picture wasn't among the champions at worlds. When I went to the team page, his profile wasn't there. I thought I saw Brad's pic up earlier this week, so has he been removed from the Innova team?



As much as all us inquiring minds would like to know, this issue is probably nobody's business but Brad and Innova's. I cringe at the thought of being Dave and having to deal with something like this. Dave D. takes the time to answer all sorts of weird questions regarding his discs and other equipment, so we should probably give him the courtesy of keeping our questions about equipment rather than personal matters imho. :D

Dave, I was on the Innova page this afternoon, and I noticed that Brad's picture wasn't among the champions at worlds. When I went to the team page, his profile wasn't there. I thought I saw Brad's pic up earlier this week, so has he been removed from the Innova team?



As much as all us inquiring minds would like to know, this issue is probably nobody's business but Brad and Innova's. I cringe at the thought of being Dave and having to deal with something like this. Dave D. takes the time to answer all sorts of weird questions regarding his discs and other equipment, so we should probably give him the courtesy of keeping our questions about equipment rather than personal matters imho. :D



word. thanks dave for answering all of our disc-related questions.

Thank you

Dave, I was on the Innova page this afternoon, and I noticed that Brad's picture wasn't among the champions at worlds. When I went to the team page, his profile wasn't there. I thought I saw Brad's pic up earlier this week, so has he been removed from the Innova team?



As much as all us inquiring minds would like to know, this issue is probably nobody's business but Brad and Innova's. I cringe at the thought of being Dave and having to deal with something like this. Dave D. takes the time to answer all sorts of weird questions regarding his discs and other equipment, so we should probably give him the courtesy of keeping our questions about equipment rather than personal matters imho. :D


Sorry Dave, I didn't mean to cause this much of a rucus.

what's the story on the no X KC Pro Roc. Of the 6+ KC Pro's in our house There is only one No X My son can't remember where it came from. Not sure if it was pay-out or a purchase. would love any info/story on these No X KC Pro Roc's

Also can't wait for the 12X



The no X was probably the latest stamp. We thought Kenny's stamps were getting cluttered with titles and tried to simplify it. His stamp should read 12X World and 4X USDGC Champion as the USDGC is just as significant. Maybe we will put that on the next stamp: 12X World and 4X USDGC Champion Ken Climo



You may want to wait a little while before you do that. :Dusdgc will be afoot sooner than you think.

And Dave, if I win the Safari, will you sponsor me? According to another thread, Masters need some sort of incentive program. :D

Dave, I'm a little fuzzy on my disc manufacturer history. Did one of the Roc molds wear out or crack? If if did, did you make another mold? The reason I ask, is because I have heard someone say how expensive molds are to make. It seems the major disc manufacturer are creating so many new molds. Thanks, Scott

Dave, I'm a little fuzzy on my disc manufacturer history. Did one of the Roc molds wear out or crack? If if did, did you make another mold? The reason I ask, is because I have heard someone say how expensive molds are to make. It seems the major disc manufacturer are creating so many new molds. Thanks, Scott



The Rancho Roc is a new mold. The Ontario mold was getting old. The original 175 gm Roc has two of three pieces that are new.

Hi Dave
what is the story behind this disc?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&item=290021864232&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Hi Dave
what is the story behind this disc?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&item=290021864232&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1



Looks like a regular Aero to me. I believe I stamped them myself. The notion that this is not an Aero is probably due to the fact that this particular run had a lot of mold shrinkage and subsequently is a little smaller than other Aeros.

I have two questions:

1. What would it take to get a disc put back into production? I keep reading about how much people love the Gremlin and how it is one of the best discs ever, so why stop making it? I know that it is available in Star Fundraiser plastic right now, but that is still a deterent to me because if I start throwing it, like it, and then lose it, it might be difficult to get another without spending a good amount.

2. I have noticed that several discs come in different molds. Some of these variations, like the SL, FL, and TL get their own disc name. Others, like the three variations on the Monster, are just called the same thing even though they behave differently. I can also see dramatic changes on the bottom lip of CE Eagles as compared with current Champ Eagles. My question is this: how can you produce a disc with the same name while having changed the mold (and thus, presumably, how it throws)? Does the new mold still fall under the same PDGA approved guidelines as the original, or does it have to be resubmitted?

If these questions have been answered before, sorry for reposting.

I have to agree on the Gremlin. I used to throw the DX and the former "Pro Line" one's. I stopped throwing them when I heard they were going out of production. The dx was a great utility disc...always dependable.

I have to agree on the Gremlin. I used to throw the DX and the former "Pro Line" one's. I stopped throwing them when I heard they were going out of production. The dx was a great utility disc...always dependable.



I stocked up when I heard they were going out of production, then started lobbying HARD for a STAR version. I wouldn't know what to do without my beloved Gremlins, so I hope my 2 boxes of DX, 1 box of Proline, half-box of 150-class DX, & 6 STAR last me 4ever!

I have two questions:

1. What would it take to get a disc put back into production? I keep reading about how much people love the Gremlin and how it is one of the best discs ever, so why stop making it? I know that it is available in Star Fundraiser plastic right now, but that is still a deterent to me because if I start throwing it, like it, and then lose it, it might be difficult to get another without spending a good amount.

2. I have noticed that several discs come in different molds. Some of these variations, like the SL, FL, and TL get their own disc name. Others, like the three variations on the Monster, are just called the same thing even though they behave differently. I can also see dramatic changes on the bottom lip of CE Eagles as compared with current Champ Eagles. My question is this: how can you produce a disc with the same name while having changed the mold (and thus, presumably, how it throws)? Does the new mold still fall under the same PDGA approved guidelines as the original, or does it have to be resubmitted?

If these questions have been answered before, sorry for reposting.



The Gremlin might already have been run if we had enough time to run it. Several discs have had to be put in the fundraising slot because we just didn't have enough time to run them. That being said, if we did run the Gremlin and it didn't perform well sales wise, we wouldn't move it to mainstream. If it had sufficient sales to warrant it being in a specialty slot, it would stay there. If the Star Gremlins were in the fundraising slot, they would be $16-$20. Which could be slightly less than Star MSRP which is $17.00.

It comes down to what significant changes mean. As far as the PDGA is concerned, a name change is more important that a minor tooling change for resubmission. Changes due to plastics do more to the shape and flight characteristic than a slight tooling change, but that change is irrelevant to the PDGA unless the disc falls out of basic specs of weight, flexibility, minimum size, or sharpness. Some of our changes are done to maintain a flight characteristic, and some are done to enhance it, by our defininition. Everyone has their own opinion as to how a certain disc should fly, so you are hard pressed to please everyone regardless.

Hi Dave,

2 questions; Which is your most overstable MID-RANGE disc? I am looking for the same overstability as a firebird but at lower speed. Secondly, the star beast don't seem to have the same S flight as the champion edition. Any reasons why star plastic may be more stable than champion? I am also courious to know what you have in your bag.

Thanks,
Felipe

The Gremlin might already have been run if we had enough time to run it. Several discs have had to be put in the fundraising slot because we just didn't have enough time to run them. That being said, if we did run the Gremlin and it didn't perform well sales wise, we wouldn't move it to mainstream. If it had sufficient sales to warrant it being in a specialty slot, it would stay there. If the Star Gremlins were in the fundraising slot, they would be $16-$20. Which could be slightly less than Star MSRP which is $17.00.

It comes down to what significant changes mean. As far as the PDGA is concerned, a name change is more important that a minor tooling change for resubmission. Changes due to plastics do more to the shape and flight characteristic than a slight tooling change, but that change is irrelevant to the PDGA unless the disc falls out of basic specs of weight, flexibility, minimum size, or sharpness. Some of our changes are done to maintain a flight characteristic, and some are done to enhance it, by our defininition. Everyone has their own opinion as to how a certain disc should fly, so you are hard pressed to please everyone regardless.



Thanks for the great answers. I hadn't thought about the affects that different plastics would have on flight characteristics, and it makes sense to retool the discs if the purpose is to maintain the company's flight characteristic goal.

Hi Dave,

2 questions; Which is your most overstable MID-RANGE disc? I am looking for the same overstability as a firebird but at lower speed. Secondly, the star beast don't seem to have the same S flight as the champion edition. Any reasons why star plastic may be more stable than champion? I am also courious to know what you have in your bag.

Thanks,
Felipe



I am guessing the most overstable midrange is the Gator.

As for the Beast question, I find the Star Beast I have turns over and S's more than the Champ ones that I have thrown. Maybe it's a time lapse in my game, but I was very surprised with the results I was getting from the Star Beast when it was the same weight as the Champ ones I had tried.

Hi Dave,

2 questions; Which is your most overstable MID-RANGE disc? I am looking for the same overstability as a firebird but at lower speed. Secondly, the star beast don't seem to have the same S flight as the champion edition. Any reasons why star plastic may be more stable than champion? I am also courious to know what you have in your bag.

Thanks,
Felipe



Our most overstable mid range is probably the Gator, but we have several discs that are slower than a Firebird and more overstable than a Gator. The Whippet, Viper, and Banshee are all slower than a Firebird and over stable.

Star plastic is not always more stable than Champion, but many times it is. Champion Sharks vs Star Shark is a notable exception. I really don't know why, for instance a Star Sidewinder or Star Beast is more stable than a Champion version, but I have noticed it.

The discs is my bag change a little from tournament to tournament, but most recently at the World's I had 1- 179gm Star Shark, 1- 179gm Star Coyote, 2- 164gm Star Wraiths, 2- 168 gm Star TeeRexes, 1- 175gm Champion Viking, 1- 175gm Champion Leopard, 1- 174gm Star Leopard, 1- 175gm Champion Beast (New type), 2-174gm Aviar putters, 1-175gm JK Aviar

I have to agree on the Gremlin. I used to throw the DX and the former "Pro Line" one's. I stopped throwing them when I heard they were going out of production. The dx was a great utility disc...always dependable.



I've used a Gremlin. Try the new Skeeter. I think it's a good replacement for it in grip and flight.

Thanks for your prompt reply Dave. Way to go for this thread, I'm sure it's one of most popular in the board.
I putt with 11X KC Pro Aviars and would love to have this disc in the more durable Star plastic. Might there be a 12X KC Star Aviar in prospect?

I throw Gremlins every day & I couldn't disagree more. Skeeter feels & flies (for me) much more like a putter, while a Gremlin is more like a slower driver.

My $0.02.

Come on Innova, what does Des Reading have to do to get her own disc? In the last three years playing Open Women she has played 65 sancation event which she has won 48 times gotten 2nd 10 times, 3rd 4 times, 4th twice and 5th once. Tell me another disc golf player who has done the same

Come on Innova, what does Des Reading have to do to get her own disc? In the last three years playing Open Women she has played 65 sancation event which she has won 48 times gotten 2nd 10 times, 3rd 4 times, 4th twice and 5th once. Tell me another disc golf player who has done the same



OK .............since you asked ............................

Let me mention that there are many multiple world champions on team Innova.
Dr Rick , for one ,has 5 World Championships, Peter Shive has 7, Dave Greenwell has 4 and Stan McDaniel has 3.
It is not possible to give every repeat champion a disc and how could anyone decide that Des deserves a Signature disc more than 7 time Peter Shive or 5 time Dr. Rick, who is also in the Hall of Fame?

HALL OF FAME !!!!!! :eek:

Please let me point out that Des is not more deserving than these other guys with more world titles.
I hope people will get the hint.
Des only beat 24 people to get her title, Dr. Rick beat 51 people this year and 55 when he won his 4th World Championship last year.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Thanks for your prompt reply Dave. Way to go for this thread, I'm sure it's one of most popular in the board.
I putt with 11X KC Pro Aviars and would love to have this disc in the more durable Star plastic. Might there be a 12X KC Star Aviar in prospect?



There is a Star Big Bead coming at some point, but Kenny putts with a different putter with his name on it. I would have to talk to Kenny first. Not a bad idea especially considering we were unable to make KC Aviars last time we tried.

Des Disc????????? you know it would sell like hot cakes... :D

I was inspecting an noX kc aviar and a 10x kc aviar the other day and noticed that the 10x is much more blunt, is this the mold or the plastic?

Come on Innova, what does Des Reading have to do to get her own disc? In the last three years playing Open Women she has played 65 sancation event which she has won 48 times gotten 2nd 10 times, 3rd 4 times, 4th twice and 5th once. Tell me another disc golf player who has done the same



OK .............since you asked ............................

Let me mention that there are many multiple world champions on team Innova.
Dr Rick , for one ,has 5 World Championships, Peter Shive has 7, Dave Greenwell has 4 and Stan McDaniel has 3.
It is not possible to give every repeat champion a disc and how could anyone decide that Des deserves a Signature disc more than 7 time Peter Shive or 5 time Dr. Rick, who is also in the Hall of Fame?

HALL OF FAME !!!!!! :eek:

Please let me point out that Des is not more deserving than these other guys with more world titles.
I hope people will get the hint.
Des only beat 24 people to get her title, Dr. Rick beat 51 people this year and 55 when he won his 4th World Championship last year.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.



Nope no light shed just a shadow /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Im still convinced Des DEServes it more than anyone!!! :cool:

Des only beat 24 people to get her title, Dr. Rick beat 51 people this year and 55 when he won his 4th World Championship last year.





Dude, if that's your argument, it's weak! The fact is that she won in the highest women's division.

It's up to Dave D. to make the disc. However, I hope the fact that Des "only beat 24" other women isn't the deciding factor... honestly! :mad:

Oh and Dave, thanks a million for the 150 class Star Valk. It's my favorite! :D

Hi Dave,
Which one of your new super fast drivers released in the last two years or so rides the high line the best? Or goes the farthest thrown high?

Thanks

I was inspecting an noX kc aviar and a 10x kc aviar the other day and noticed that the 10x is much more blunt, is this the mold or the plastic?



There was a change in mold several years ago to the driver mold.

Hi Dave,
Which one of your new super fast drivers released in the last two years or so rides the high line the best? Or goes the farthest thrown high?

Thanks



On a hyzer flip type throw, I would say the Beast. On a high turnover, I would say Wraith for most arms, and TeeRex for the big arms.

Hi Dave. I tried the [new] Champion Leopards, and never really like it. The older ones have been ok, less stable, and fly like I would expect a Leopard to fly ... but the new ones seem like they are really more stable than I like (even after playing with them a lot). Question is ... How do the Star Leopards fly compared to the newest versions of Champion Leopard? Are they less stable and easier to get to turn over?
Another question. I've tried the TeeRex, but mine are 172+. I see you throw lighter weight. I can't do much with the TeeRex at 172 (first run red), and I'm wondering if I should try a lighter weight, or different color.
Thanks!

Dave, when do you expect to run Star Skeeters? I want to try one, but DeLa just eats up DX plastic. Thanks.

-E

Hi Dave. I tried the [new] Champion Leopards, and never really like it. The older ones have been ok, less stable, and fly like I would expect a Leopard to fly ... but the new ones seem like they are really more stable than I like (even after playing with them a lot). Question is ... How do the Star Leopards fly compared to the newest versions of Champion Leopard? Are they less stable and easier to get to turn over?
Another question. I've tried the TeeRex, but mine are 172+. I see you throw lighter weight. I can't do much with the TeeRex at 172 (first run red), and I'm wondering if I should try a lighter weight, or different color.
Thanks!



I would not expect the Star Leopards to be less stable than the Champion. My experience with them has been that they are just as stable. Lighter weights might be a little less stable or you can get a DX, which will wear into what you might want.

I would absolutely try lighter weights in DX TeeRex or Star for that matter. 150 gm DX TeeRex are still pretty stable. I believe the yellow are the least stable I have tried. They flied more like Wraiths, than TeeRexes. The blue seems to be the most stable, followed by the red, then the magenta. For me, the Star TeeRex at 168 gms was the best flying. Something like a TeeBird on big steroids. If I could have gotten a Star lighter than that (164 gms), I would have.

Dave, when do you expect to run Star Skeeters? I want to try one, but DeLa just eats up DX plastic. Thanks.

-E



I want to run the Star Skeeters right away, but If we can't, we will run enough to be available through tournament sales. The DX Skeeters are running now, so it won't be long till we run at least some Star.

From what I heard they are not running any more K.C. Cheetah�s. I use this for everything for long turnover shots and tight fairways. What are my choices? Thanks in advance Dave!

Hi DAve,
one thought:
If you look at one of the good old drivers from early 90�s that is still around, the Viper, it has a speed rating of "6" and Glide "4".
Today the Wraith and TeeRex have "11" and "5".
My question is, how much further do you think you will come in the future? (Staying within the PDGA�s rules of course)

From what I heard they are not running any more K.C. Cheetah�s. I use this for everything for long turnover shots and tight fairways. What are my choices? Thanks in advance Dave!



DX Cheetah, and DX Leopard, Champion Leopard, and Star Leopard would be the closest for that purpose. The Cheetah and Leopard have always been similar so we opted for the Leopard models over the Cheetah, except for the DX Cheetah.

Hi DAve,
one thought:
If you look at one of the good old drivers from early 90�s that is still around, the Viper, it has a speed rating of "6" and Glide "4".
Today the Wraith and TeeRex have "11" and "5".
My question is, how much further do you think you will come in the future? (Staying within the PDGA�s rules of course)



I think we have about reached the practical limits, but not the actual limits. I don't plan on making any speed 12 discs in the near future. The discs are already difficult to grip for smaller hands, which is a disadvantage for smaller people, who are already at a disadvantage. Also as we make faster and faster discs, the available weight ranges for high end plastic gets smaller and higher again giving the advantage to bigger guys who can throw the heavy stuff. Any 12 speed disc would only be available in the 170s except for DX.

I just recieved a Star Leopard. Has there been a change to the mold recently. It seems that there is a half-bead ( not quite a bead, but a different angle) that I dont remember it having. Is this the reason for the added stability of the newer runs of leopards?

I just recieved a Star Leopard. Has there been a change to the mold recently. It seems that there is a half-bead ( not quite a bead, but a different angle) that I dont remember it having. Is this the reason for the added stability of the newer runs of leopards?



I don't remeber the "half-bead" on my champ leopard before I lost it, but my dx leopard has it. I havent noticed any changes in flight so maybe you just need to break in your star leopard.

Maybe EDGE can do something for Des.

Dave doesn't have to do anything ...........really.

Do you think Des even really cares ? She just likes to play and help kids through the EDGE program.

Besides , why do folks think she should automatically get a disc?
Why is it so important to automatically make a Des disc ?

Let me mention that there are many multiple world champions on team Innova.

Dr Rick , for one ,has 5 World Championships, Peter Shive has 7, Dave Greenwell has 4 and Stan McDaniel has 3.

It is not possible to give every repeat champion a disc and how could anyone decide that Des deserves a Signature disc more than 7 time Peter Shive or 5 time Dr. Rick, who is also in the Hall of Fame?

HALL OF FAME !!!!!! :eek:

Please let me point out that Des is not more deserving than these other guys with more world titles.

I hope people will get the hint.

Des only beat 24 people to get her title, Dr. Rick beat 51 people this year and 55 when he won his 4th World Championship last year.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Oh , and Dave should never be forced to make a disc.

People should go cry somewhere else.

I think we all know where you stand on this topic. No sense beating us about the head and shoulders with it.

I just recieved a Star Leopard. Has there been a change to the mold recently. It seems that there is a half-bead ( not quite a bead, but a different angle) that I dont remember it having. Is this the reason for the added stability of the newer runs of leopards?



There has been no change to the Leopard for several years. The plastic might have set up a little differently giving that impression. If there is any difference in flight, that is the reason.

Donny, Des is more deserving because she plays Open.

Donny, Des is more deserving because she plays Open.



When are you going to start playing Open ?

Kent La Gree just made the move to Open Masters.


There also has been alot of talk comparing Julianna vs Des and how much each person has accomplished.

I'm sure they are Both happy with what they are throwing now.

I don't think there will be any Des disc made any time soon.

We all need to move on to other subjects.

You're incredible boring. Without original thoughts, you will only be ignored. Where is the censor button, you have earned a spot on my list.
One comment for Dave: I believe if you did make a "12" speed disc, even if only in 170's and certain plastics, it would still be in demand. People are always looking for an upgrade of some sort, be it speed or control or durability. While the disc might be too wide-rimmed for some or too overstable for others to throw backhand, it would still find a place in many bags for a trickshot/forehand disc, much like my first speed demon. Just my opinion.

Donny, Des is more deserving because she plays Open.



this is the kind of nonsense the term "Open Women" potentially leads to :p

at the USDGC she will be playing Open. It will be pretty cool if she ends up cashing there like i hear Juliana did one year.

Dave, are there any plans to do the 100 Star signature discs to commemorate each Innova Pro Worlds winner as was done last year? If so, the Ken Climo ones before long may sell for 12x the normal Star prices :D

Donny, Des is more deserving because she plays Open.



this is the kind of nonsense the term "Open Women" potentially leads to :p


In the PDGA, "Open" has always meant "without age restriction". There is absolutely nothing wrong with that usage of the term.

tradition doesn't make a poor precedent less wrong :p

(it is almost as if the implication is women can't compete in or enter Open, which is wrong)

sorry Dave -- i won't take up any more of your thread with this ;)

Donny, Des is more deserving because she plays Open.



this is the kind of nonsense the term "Open Women" potentially leads to :p

at the USDGC she will be playing Open. It will be pretty cool if she ends up cashing there like i hear Juliana did one year.

Dave, are there any plans to do the 100 Star signature discs to commemorate each Innova Pro Worlds winner as was done last year? If so, the Ken Climo ones before long may sell for 12x the normal Star prices :D



Yes, we will do the Star signiture discs after the USDGC is done.

Even though I throw Wraiths (speed 11) the Teebird (speed 7) gets used the most in my bag. It's the best control disc I've ever thrown. Ask Climo, 12 World Championships should tell you something... :)

PT Woods
# 20431
sddga.com (http://www.sddga.com/index.html)

I was wondering what the letters SOF on the bottom of a disc stand for. I think that it may be a Millenium disc, but I don't know. It's stamped for World's Biggest. I didn't know if you would be the person to answer this or not.

Also, just to chime in on the signature disc discussion (and I'll try to make this a question as well)... I think that what I like most about signature discs is that it gives me an idea of when the disc was produced. For instance I can tell the difference between Beasts based on if it's a 1 time, 2 time or 0 time signature. I know that it's not important really, but I do like to know how old my discs are. So a question, beyond signature series discs, is there any way to tell how old a disc is?

I was wondering what the letters SOF on the bottom of a disc stand for. I think that it may be a Millenium disc, but I don't know. It's stamped for World's Biggest. I didn't know if you would be the person to answer this or not.

Also, just to chime in on the signature disc discussion (and I'll try to make this a question as well)... I think that what I like most about signature discs is that it gives me an idea of when the disc was produced. For instance I can tell the difference between Beasts based on if it's a 1 time, 2 time or 0 time signature. I know that it's not important really, but I do like to know how old my discs are. So a question, beyond signature series discs, is there any way to tell how old a disc is?



SOF stands for Sirius Orion Fade. There are several ways to tell how old a disc is, but you have to know what each thing means in terms of when they were produced. Certain hotstamps were only done during certain periods. Certain mold variations. Material variations sometimes.

Dave what is the best/easiest way to tell a retooled Beast (Beast-L?) from the original? Obviously the flight is the true teller...and is the newer/retooled Beast-L version kind of like a longer TL? Thanks.
doc

Dave,

Any plans of running the regular E mold of Eagles in Champion plastic again?

Since someone brought up the Eagle, I have some historical questions.

Dave,
What impact did the Eagle have on disc golf back in 1982? Did it (really) change the way people played the game?
Which disc changed the game more...the Eagle or your next disc, the Aero?
In looking up some information, I found you once had a Gopher. What was that?

Have a great weekend.

In looking up some information, I found you once had a Gopher. What was that?


The Gopher: Sounds like a great utility disc!

The newer Eagle was a game changer as well, back in '98(?)...

I am not Dave but I know the Eagle and Aero is more or less the same disc, very minor differences.

The Gopher is/was a approach type of the disc, a large diameter Polecat/ Birdie:
http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc_eng.aspx?DiscId=1936

Dave what is the best/easiest way to tell a retooled Beast (Beast-L?) from the original? Obviously the flight is the true teller...and is the newer/retooled Beast-L version kind of like a longer TL? Thanks.
doc



The retooled Beast is more like a longer Valkyrie than a longer TL. The beveled edge is straighter or not as concave as it used to be. It's a small difference, which is easier to tell when you have and old and new Beast side by side.

Dave,

Any plans of running the regular E mold of Eagles in Champion plastic again?



The regular Eagle is an L type. We will run the X type too as it has been a favorite of many pros in the past.

Since someone brought up the Eagle, I have some historical questions.

Dave,
What impact did the Eagle have on disc golf back in 1982? Did it (really) change the way people played the game?
Which disc changed the game more...the Eagle or your next disc, the Aero?
In looking up some information, I found you once had a Gopher. What was that?

Have a great weekend.



The original Eagle and Aero had about the same impact, which was pretty big, especially according to some of my critics, who said I destroyed the game of disc golf by obsoleting all of the courses.

The original Gopher did not have a Thumtrac, but it does now. It was like a smaller Zephyr or a larger Thumtrac Birdie. It is still in inventory. It's principle uses are for catch, warm up, object golf, or approach shots.

Hi Dave,


I may have missed this, but are the Champion Leopards all going to feature the Barry Schultz stamp? Im yet to see them, but heard about them last night. Any info?

Thanks

The original Eagle and Aero had about the same impact, which was pretty big, especially according to some of my critics, who said I destroyed the game of disc golf by obsoleting all of the courses.



"Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' -- Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood" -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

if Emerson was a disc golfer writing that today, it's a pretty safe bet he would add the name Dunipace ;)

thank goodness you didn't listen to them Dave! :D

I have been throwing the new Star Valk and mine is stable to slightly overstable. Really sweet. Super Fast.

P.S. - Keep making Star Wraiths.

Dave,
There's a disc on eBay right now the guy is calling an Innova Sparrow. The stamp is from 1984. It looks like an Aero to me. Was there ever a Sparrow?

Thx

Dave,
There's a disc on eBay right now the guy is calling an Innova Sparrow. The stamp is from 1984. It looks like an Aero to me. Was there ever a Sparrow?

Thx



from about 60 posts earlier in this thread:



Hi Dave
what is the story behind this disc?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&item=290021864232&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1



Looks like a regular Aero to me. I believe I stamped them myself. The notion that this is not an Aero is probably due to the fact that this particular run had a lot of mold shrinkage and subsequently is a little smaller than other Aeros.

Hi Dave,


I may have missed this, but are the Champion Leopards all going to feature the Barry Schultz stamp? Im yet to see them, but heard about them last night. Any info?

Thanks



Yes, the Champion Leopard is now the Barry Schultz Leopard.
Unfortunately, when we made that decision about a year ago, we had just stamped a whole bunch of the original type. You should start to see the new ones soon.

Hi Dave,


I may have missed this, but are the Champion Leopards all going to feature the Barry Schultz stamp? Im yet to see them, but heard about them last night. Any info?

Thanks




Yes, the Champion Leopard is now the Barry Schultz Leopard.
Unfortunately, when we made that decision about a year ago, we had just stamped a whole bunch of the original type. You should start to see the new ones soon.





can you post a link of a pic???
Have a great weekend, Dave! Shoot like a champion!

-The Truth

can you post a link of a pic???
Have a great weekend, Dave! Shoot like a champion!

-The Truth



Sorry, I don't have a pic to post yet.

What is the deal about hitting the inner chain set at the bottom of the basket and having the putter bounce straight back out on the new Discatcher Pros?

This has happend to me twice in the last month. Once at Am Worlds where I missed a 4ft putt (I have a 3ft reach), and then during a side bet round last week.

I toss the putter in, nose down. Then it hits right where the inner chains stop and attach to the ring, and then the disc just bounces straight back out of the basket as if I threw it at a trampoline.

Courtney Peavy at Worlds, told me that this was the intended design.

What gives?

Here is a picture chase &amp; Lord....

Hope that helps Dave.

http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/bsleo1a.jpg

What is the deal about hitting the inner chain set at the bottom of the basket and having the putter bounce straight back out on the new Discatcher Pros?

This has happend to me twice in the last month. Once at Am Worlds where I missed a 4ft putt (I have a 3ft reach), and then during a side bet round last week.

I toss the putter in, nose down. Then it hits right where the inner chains stop and attach to the ring, and then the disc just bounces straight back out of the basket as if I threw it at a trampoline.

Courtney Peavy at Worlds, told me that this was the intended design.

What gives?



It might be a design flaw for nose down putts. I have never seen it happen, but I don't putt nose down. I will ask Barry if he has noticed this. I imagine this could happen on any ring as a fluke occurance. I have seen it happen many times on the inner rign of a Mach III.

Here is a picture chase & Lord....

Hope that helps Dave.

http://www.widiscgolf.com/pdga/bsleo1a.jpg



Thank you.

I imagine this could happen on any ring as a fluke occurance. I have seen it happen many times on the inner rign of a Mach III.



Thanks Dave, I know every basket has it's flukes/flaws/etc..."don't hit Mach's high, don't hyzer putt on a chainstar, yada yada yada".... but this was the first time (with the newer baskets) that I have seen what is normally a perfectly good putt just bounce back. It was the craziest thing I have ever seen in this game. Both my card and the card waiting to tee off were astonished when I missed the 4ft putt. People would talk about it at the awards ceremony when I came up to them. I guess it granted me a little bit of infamy.

I am curious to find out if anyone else has had this problem.

i have seen it happen to nose down putters a lot if it hits at the exact spot where the screw is , saw it happen on back to back holes at a supertour this year to a buddy of mine luckily i dont putt with nose down

i have them bounce out once in a while when i hit low and center (and flat) -- but it doesn't seem to matter so much what type of basket it is. it sounded counterintuitive at first to me, but i putt with JK Aviars and was told that softer putters bounce out more easily -- though they also stick more easily when you are off center so it's a trade off...

do softer putters have a greater tendency to bounce off/out? parkntwoputt -- what is your normal putter?

i have seen it happen to nose down putters a lot if it hits at the exact spot where the screw is



I'm a nose down putter and I've had it happen here and there.

>>> Thanks for the pic Josh <<<


Hi Dave,

I was wondering about the Roadrunners in Special Blend plastic. According to the sellers, these came out around the Night Shift Orc time? I didnt even think the Roadrunner was out then.
I thought the Special Blend CFRs were just another way of selling Star discs for fundraising. Whats the difference between Special Blend and Star?


Also... I picked up a quad-stamped Star Wraith and it is the most odd looking Wraith Ive seen. It has a super high dome and is super flat from about 3 inches to the rim ( on topside ) resulting in the most overstable Innova distance driver Ive ever thrown. My question is:

Does hotstamping a disc multiple times actually change the dome? Im not sure if that makes sense, but this disc most resembles a Gateway Spirt, and is far from a Wraith in appearance.( Most people ask what it is, even when seeing the SWR on the bottom. Ive seen them go concave, but not opposite.

No problem Chase....

I though the the Star Roadrunners were just ran within the past month or so. That would make me think they are just Star CFR not SB. I could be wrong. I'm sure Dave knows.

Josh

No problem Chase....

I though the the Star Roadrunners were just ran within the past month or so. That would make me think they are just Star CFR not SB. I could be wrong. I'm sure Dave knows.

Josh




Ive seen several advertised as a "limited" run done between Night Shift and Special Blend plastic, before Star. I found it funny at first, now Im curious.

Mark has them listed as Special Blend. I have two and they seem to be more on the Champion side.

Hey Dave has there ever been any thought on making a speed 11 understable disc?
Something along the lines of a Sidewinder.

Mark has them listed as Special Blend. I have two and they seem to be more on the Champion side.



The ones I have seen are also more on the Champion side. Im all for supporting CFRs, but think Ill wait till the Stars come out in regular production.

Dave,

The Wraith and TeeRex are really popular and I love throwing them, but I was wondering if there were plans to make a more understable version of these models. Seems to me it would be a natural, any thoughts?

TeeRex, 11, 5, 0, 4
Wraith, 11, 5, -1, 3
New Disc, 11, 5, -2, 2

Jerry

Dave,

The Wraith and TeeRex are really popular and I love throwing them, but I was wondering if there were plans to make a more understable version of these models. Seems to me it would be a natural, any thoughts?

TeeRex, 11, 5, 0, 4
Wraith, 11, 5, -1, 3
New Disc, 11, 5, -2, 2

Jerry



I was thinking more on the lines of 11, 5, 0, 2. Take a Teebird and give it more speed would be the ultimate disc. I'm surprised no one else has suggested this?

PT Woods
# 20431
SDDGA.com (http://www.sddga.com)

I guess I just use them for awhile and they are understable.

The Tee Rex was intended to be like a faster T-Bird.
A 11/5/-2/-2 disc would be alot like a faster Beast.

Dave,

The Wraith and TeeRex are really popular and I love throwing them, but I was wondering if there were plans to make a more understable version of these models. Seems to me it would be a natural, any thoughts?

TeeRex, 11, 5, 0, 4
Wraith, 11, 5, -1, 3
New Disc, 11, 5, -2, 2

Jerry



I was thinking more on the lines of 11, 5, 0, 2. Take a Teebird and give it more speed would be the ultimate disc. I'm surprised no one else has suggested this?

PT Woods
# 20431
SDDGA.com (http://www.sddga.com)



u must ave missed the 30 pages of discussion on this some sevral pags ago...lol

do softer putters have a greater tendency to bounce off/out? parkntwoputt -- what is your normal putter?



I have seen more bouncing off the poles with hard putters. I am the only person I have witnessed bounce off chains like I described, but obviously am not alone. The only problems I have seen with soft putters vs hard putters is the when soft putters are thrown very slow, they sometimes do not move the chains enough and can flop out. But that is more of an operator error then anything else.

I putt with a very hard putter. CT Challengers and the new Pro D Challengers of the same aforementioned special plastic. I use them because I prefer an overstable putter.

Dave,

The Wraith and TeeRex are really popular and I love throwing them, but I was wondering if there were plans to make a more understable version of these models. Seems to me it would be a natural, any thoughts?

TeeRex, 11, 5, 0, 4
Wraith, 11, 5, -1, 3
New Disc, 11, 5, -2, 2

Jerry



I was thinking more on the lines of 11, 5, 0, 2. Take a Teebird and give it more speed would be the ultimate disc. I'm surprised no one else has suggested this?

PT Woods
# 20431
SDDGA.com (http://www.sddga.com)



u must ave missed the 30 pages of discussion on this some sevral pags ago...lol



I found discussions on the Wraith concerning; "riding a high line", speed 12 drivers, smaller rims and lots of talk about plastic type and performance. As a former engineer I'm curious about disc design, the TeeRex is Wraith-like but more overstable, can the design go the other way as well? But maybe I missed it...

Thanks for your patience Dave, I look forward to the thread everyday.

Jerry

Alot of people tend to use overstable drivers as their max distance drivers since they can pump em out and still have confedence that they will come back if they turn them over too much. Only thing is these dont fair well in long tunnel shots over 400 ft for most people. Maybe its a popularity issue.
All I know is that I need a highspeed understable driver for tailwind drives, long straight drives with very little hyzer at the end and long turnover shots.
Maybe I'm the only one.

Recently I've fallen in love with the Sidewinder and it ability to hold a long hyzer flip line.

>>> Thanks for the pic Josh <<<


Hi Dave,

I was wondering about the Roadrunners in Special Blend plastic. According to the sellers, these came out around the Night Shift Orc time? I didnt even think the Roadrunner was out then.
I thought the Special Blend CFRs were just another way of selling Star discs for fundraising. Whats the difference between Special Blend and Star?


Also... I picked up a quad-stamped Star Wraith and it is the most odd looking Wraith Ive seen. It has a super high dome and is super flat from about 3 inches to the rim ( on topside ) resulting in the most overstable Innova distance driver Ive ever thrown. My question is:

Does hotstamping a disc multiple times actually change the dome? Im not sure if that makes sense, but this disc most resembles a Gateway Spirt, and is far from a Wraith in appearance.( Most people ask what it is, even when seeing the SWR on the bottom. Ive seen them go concave, but not opposite.



SB was the name before Star. Sometimes hotstamping can change the dome, especially if it is on the disc for any time at all. I have never seen a Star Wraith the way you describe, but I have seen multiple hotstamps do odd stuff to the flight plate.

Hey Dave has there ever been any thought on making a speed 11 understable disc?
Something along the lines of a Sidewinder.



Just the Pro Wraith.

Dave,

The Wraith and TeeRex are really popular and I love throwing them, but I was wondering if there were plans to make a more understable version of these models. Seems to me it would be a natural, any thoughts?

TeeRex, 11, 5, 0, 4
Wraith, 11, 5, -1, 3
New Disc, 11, 5, -2, 2

Jerry



Your new disc number match the Pro Wraith pretty well. We have no plans to make a disc that flies like that in Champion or Star yet. It could happen in the future.

I found discussions on the Wraith concerning; "riding a high line", speed 12 drivers, smaller rims and lots of talk about plastic type and performance. As a former engineer I'm curious about disc design, the TeeRex is Wraith-like but more overstable, can the design go the other way as well? But maybe I missed it...

Thanks for your patience Dave, I look forward to the thread everyday.

Jerry



If you mean: "Can the basic Wraith design be tweaked to be more understable?", yes, but it would be more practical to use a brand new design.

do softer putters have a greater tendency to bounce off/out? parkntwoputt -- what is your normal putter?



I have seen more bouncing off the poles with hard putters. I am the only person I have witnessed bounce off chains like I described, but obviously am not alone. The only problems I have seen with soft putters vs hard putters is the when soft putters are thrown very slow, they sometimes do not move the chains enough and can flop out. But that is more of an operator error then anything else.

I putt with a very hard putter.



i was trying to remember what i heard and who said it and i think it was after i had a bounce out (hit low and center) with my soft JK Aviar at a tournament that Al Schack mentioned to me that soft putters have more bounce outs but it's a trade off because hard putters have more spit-throughs. i putt very soft if there is no wind -- normally nose up.

otoh, i just bought some DX Coyotes and they seem like they'd be nice putters. What are the drawbacks to putting with a midrange?

otoh, i just bought some DX Coyotes and they seem like they'd be nice putters. What are the drawbacks to putting with a midrange?



Pretty much everything except grip, cut throughs and range for larger diameter. Small diameter mids might be good for everything except staying near the basket.

dave--would you mind clarifying your last post about putting with mids? pros/cons? i putt with a dx spider and it is perfect for me in every way except it has a hair more slow speed fade than my old aviars. thanks again--steven

dave--would you mind clarifying your last post about putting with mids? pros/cons? i putt with a dx spider and it is perfect for me in every way except it has a hair more slow speed fade than my old aviars. thanks again--steven




dave--would you mind clarifying your last post about putting with mids? pros/cons? i putt with a dx spider and it is perfect for me in every way except it has a hair more slow speed fade than my old aviars. thanks again--steven



Large (180 gm sized) mids are a little harder to get a quick acceleration than 175 gm sized mids. The sweet spot is a little smaller and is more conccentrated in the middle of the target where the larger sized mids are actually better.
As far as putter sized mids go, it largely depends on your style. If your style is nose down, small mids are just as good as putters. If your style is flat or nose up, mids will have more low speed fade such that they are harder to read as the putts get longer. Plus, mids have more speed than putters which makes them a little more finicky with distance. This can be a problem with down hill putts and landing close after misses.

do softer putters have a greater tendency to bounce off/out? parkntwoputt -- what is your normal putter?


I've done head to head tests with hard Aviars and soft Aviars. I threw more than 50 putts with each and by far I had more spit outs, roll aways and fly thoughs with hard putters. So for my putting style a soft putter is my only real choice. But I see some putting styles (high arc, nose down for instance) where the plastic probably doesn't matter and a hard putter may actually be better. The roll aways were my biggest concern. If you think about an ideal roller disc, a really stiff disc is going to be a much better roller because any energy behind the throw will be transferred into energy rolling. Where as a soft disc absorbs energy when it hits the ground.

I might have missed it in the hundreds of posts...
Any chance of a Star Gazelle? That disc deserves more than just DX availability.

CFR Program USDGC Exemption is getting picked this month...


Any word on the lucky winner? Thanks..

Josh


Happy B-day Dave....!! Keep on truckin....

Happy Birthday Dave. Have a good one!
Fly on,
Axis

Dave,
Where can I buy the black Star Wraiths that were left over from the Flymart at the Worlds? Mark at DGV said none made it back to the West coast. I looked at ZD site but didn't see any there. Thx

Hi Dave,

"I was wondering about the Roadrunners in Special Blend plastic. According to the sellers, these came out around the Night Shift Orc time? I didnt even think the Roadrunner was out then. "


Has anyone thrown these? I love the champion roadrunner, but had some MAJOR grip problems with it in the rain this past weekend at the MSDGC. The SB/Star roadrunner might just be the way to go.

Dave, any of these coming up on the horizon?

I might have missed it in the hundreds of posts...
Any chance of a Star Gazelle? That disc deserves more than just DX availability.



I agree, but unfortunately, in the marketplace, the Gazelle has been eclipsed by the TeeBird. Still, we may do a Star Gazelle for tournaments.

Dave,
Where can I buy the black Star Wraiths that were left over from the Flymart at the Worlds? Mark at DGV said none made it back to the West coast. I looked at ZD site but didn't see any there. Thx



These are being split between the East and West coast offices. I don't know how they are going to be distributed yet. There are about 180 of them from what I am told.

CFR Program USDGC Exemption is getting picked this month...


Any word on the lucky winner? Thanks..

Josh


Happy B-day Dave....!! Keep on truckin....



Its up on the INNOVA website!

And the WINNER IS MARK STUBBS from Richland, MI
CONGRATS!!!

Cool they must of posted that in the last 20 minutes.

Hi Dave,

"I was wondering about the Roadrunners in Special Blend plastic. According to the sellers, these came out around the Night Shift Orc time? I didnt even think the Roadrunner was out then. "


Has anyone thrown these? I love the champion roadrunner, but had some MAJOR grip problems with it in the rain this past weekend at the MSDGC. The SB/Star roadrunner might just be the way to go.

Dave, any of these coming up on the horizon?



Eventually, but right now, the schedule is too tight.

Yayyya Troof, aka RAM-MAN I'm coming down with you!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thank you Innova and ZoneDriven for this opportunity!!!!

See you in Rock Hill!!!!!

Yaaaaa!!!!!!

*leaving to run some laps around Kalamazoo!* :D:D:D:D:D:D

I gotta get my hands on a few of these ................
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6022/whippetgw7.jpg

A Donny Rippett !!!!!! :eek: :D

I gotta get my hands on a few of these ................
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6022/whippetgw7.jpg

A Donny Rippett !!!!!! :eek: :D



Dave,
David and Jonathan said they have to knock the dust off a couple of rams for me when I get down to Rock Hill! :D:D that is unless you'll have those proto star rams for me by October!!! :eek: :D

I have had this happen on my Discather Sport in my backyard. Never had the trampoline effect happen to me on a real basket. My bounce out putts happen mostly because of the pole itself....or chains that hit directly on the pole, then bounce the putter out. On very few occasions, my putter has bounced off the inside of the basket itself.

Dave,
Where can I buy the black Star Wraiths that were left over from the Flymart at the Worlds? Mark at DGV said none made it back to the West coast. I looked at ZD site but didn't see any there. Thx



These are being split between the East and West coast offices. I don't know how they are going to be distributed yet. There are about 180 of them from what I am told.



I have been corrected by the East Coast office. There are only 51 left.

Dave,
Where can I buy the black Star Wraiths that were left over from the Flymart at the Worlds? Mark at DGV said none made it back to the West coast. I looked at ZD site but didn't see any there. Thx



These are being split between the East and West coast offices. I don't know how they are going to be distributed yet. There are about 180 of them from what I am told.



I have been corrected by the East Coast office. There are only 51 left.


Will Mark get some or will they all be sold out of ZD?
Thx

Hi Dave,
any news or time-schedule on the Star Tee-Rex X and dx Tee-Rex ( With Dino-stamp)?



The DX TeeRex is up soon. Star TeeRex X will get done when we run Star TeeRexes again. Not sure when it will happen. I do see a need for both types of Star TeeRexs. The Star TeeRexs I was playing with in Augusta were like good TeeBirds on steroids. Not particularly over stable. I liked them a lot, but I can see that big arms might want a little more overstability. TeeRexs are not like Monsters. We do have another Monsterlike faster disc in the works, but it is going to have to wait for production time.



Hi Dave,
do you know when this Monsterlike is comin� out?

Dave,
Where can I buy the black Star Wraiths that were left over from the Flymart at the Worlds? Mark at DGV said none made it back to the West coast. I looked at ZD site but didn't see any there. Thx



These are being split between the East and West coast offices. I don't know how they are going to be distributed yet. There are about 180 of them from what I am told.



I have been corrected by the East Coast office. There are only 51 left.


Will Mark get some or will they all be sold out of ZD?
Thx



Sorry, I don't know. They were discussing that yesterday.

Hi Dave,
any news or time-schedule on the Star Tee-Rex X and dx Tee-Rex ( With Dino-stamp)?



The DX TeeRex is up soon. Star TeeRex X will get done when we run Star TeeRexes again. Not sure when it will happen. I do see a need for both types of Star TeeRexs. The Star TeeRexs I was playing with in Augusta were like good TeeBirds on steroids. Not particularly over stable. I liked them a lot, but I can see that big arms might want a little more overstability. TeeRexs are not like Monsters. We do have another Monsterlike faster disc in the works, but it is going to have to wait for production time.



Hi Dave,
do you know when this Monsterlike is comin� out?



I depends on how testing goes. Right now it looks like early next year, but we are testing now.

I'm hoping it has the stability and speed of a Flick....but says Innova on it.

Whats the status on 12x plastic, is it going to be split between pro and champion, or star lines. Are 12x rocs going to be different in some way, ontario mold or something? Have any decisions been made in this aspect? Also I understand that classic aviars were changed to beadless because it was more like the original aviar, isnt this a bit redundant since omega's are just beadless aviars?

Whats the status on 12x plastic, is it going to be split between pro and champion, or star lines. Are 12x rocs going to be different in some way, ontario mold or something? Have any decisions been made in this aspect? Also I understand that classic aviars were changed to beadless because it was more like the original aviar, isnt this a bit redundant since omega's are just beadless aviars?



We haven't decided what we are doing with 12x, but it is probably going on all of his discs. The Rocs will be the same Rancho mold and material. The new beadless Aviars will be the only mold besides the big bead (KC, JK) in our inventory. Omegas will be the only small beads.

I searched but did not find an answer.
If this has already been asked I am sorry.

Dave:
How does Innova test the flight characteristics of the discs? (In my mind you use a giant side-arm sling shot.)
Do you feel that other flight charts (like the one @ gottagogottathrow.com) are consistent with respect to Innova flight patterns?

Thanks,
Mike in Knoxville

I searched but did not find an answer.
If this has already been asked I am sorry.

Dave:
How does Innova test the flight characteristics of the discs? (In my mind you use a giant side-arm sling shot.)
Do you feel that other flight charts (like the one @ gottagogottathrow.com) are consistent with respect to Innova flight patterns?

Thanks,
Mike in Knoxville



I test all of our discs, along with our team and my associates at Innova. Steve Wisecup is a main tester. The chart (Joes) is fairly accurate for most of our discs, but many of them were not very accurate.

So much for my disc-sling-shot idea!

Where were the major discrepancies on the Joe's chart? My guess is the HST.

Where were the major discrepancies on the Joe's chart? My guess is the HST.



I think he meant that some of the other disc charts have major discrepancies

So much for my disc-sling-shot idea!

Where were the major discrepancies on the Joe's chart? My guess is the HST.



There are several minor discrepacies like the Wraith not having any turn high speed, when it should have at least a -.5. The Gazelle having a -1 high speed should be 0 or at most -.5. Monster having less range than a Banshee.
Coyote behind Shark and Roc for range. Etc. The most glaring was an operating power of 5 for an Orion LS when it should be 3. But, maybe I don't understand the chart. Understand or not, I don't think their high speed and low speed numbers should disagree with ours by more than .5. YMMV
I don't want to knock the chart. Overall, it's pretty good.

I was looking at the list of PDGA approved discs on the website, and I don't see the Gremlin listed. Any idea why? Are these not legal for tourney play? Did I just miss it?

If that's the case, I've "cheated" in every PDGA round I've ever played. :confused:

Hello Dave,

I was wondering what the chances were for a more overstable version of the Coyote? Like a Coyote-X or something a little beefier with the same mold. Also, why does it seem the Star version is more straight-stable than the Champion? In all other Star discs Ive thrown, it seems to be opposite.

Thanks!

Also, why does it seem the Star version is more straight-stable than the Champion? In all other Star discs Ive thrown, it seems to be opposite.

Thanks!



To me, all Star discs are more stable than thier champion counterpart

Hello Dave,

I was wondering what the chances were for a more overstable version of the Coyote? Like a Coyote-X or something a little beefier with the same mold. Also, why does it seem the Star version is more straight-stable than the Champion? In all other Star discs Ive thrown, it seems to be opposite.

Thanks!



Try a Roc or Champion Shark if you want something more stable.

tizzle star shark is not as stable as champ

very true.....sounds like shark and yote on the only ones though.

Star Monster is less stable than Champion too, hmmm

STAR Gremlin less overstable than Proline (Champion).

I was looking at the list of PDGA approved discs on the website, and I don't see the Gremlin listed. Any idea why? Are these not legal for tourney play? Did I just miss it?



They were approved as the Sniper. I don't know why they are not also listed as the Gremlin.

Hello Dave,

I was wondering what the chances were for a more overstable version of the Coyote? Like a Coyote-X or something a little beefier with the same mold. Also, why does it seem the Star version is more straight-stable than the Champion? In all other Star discs Ive thrown, it seems to be opposite.

Thanks!



There is no Coyote X, but there is a Coyote L. The X version would be a Shark or Roc or even closer, an Aurora MS.
I don't know why the Star and Champion come out different sometimes. I believe the Sidewinders were a little more stable in Star vs. Champion. Sharks were way too stable in Champion but very good in Star. I really never know which way it is going to go until it gets made.

When one blurs the line between art & science, results (thankfully) are often quite unpredictable. :D

STAR Gremlin less overstable than Proline (Champion).


They are different molds, which is probably the reason for the difference. The STAR does not have the priceless bead that was included in the ProLine version. I wish they would run a STAR big-bead gremlin, I'd stock up on them. :D

hi Dave--any idea when we will see star gators? spiders? thx

hi Dave--any idea when we will see star gators? spiders? thx



They have both been in queue since Spring, but I don't have a solid date yet.

Sharks were way too stable in Champion



Champion sharks are the bomb for S curves, head winds and shorter spike hzyers!

I like the rim on the Coyote. I have plenty of the other discs everyone named off. Thanks though.

I think star is more overstable for the most part, exception for me being the Coyote. I only throw the red color in drivers, though, so maybe Ill try a Red Coyote. I have one Ive been waiting to throw , anyways.

When do you plan to do second runs on Star Discs? Will there be more than white in the next run of Star SLs?

Thanks
ce

When do you plan to do second runs on Star Discs? Will there be more than white in the next run of Star SLs?

Thanks
ce



We have been doing second runs already, depending on the model. The first run of Star SLs did include red, yellow, and blue.

I know it's wishful thinking, but any ETA on Star Gremlin-Xs? (I am addicted the STAR Gremlin-L; who needs a "driver" when I can put it 300ft on a rope exactly where I want it 97.547% of the time.) :cool:

When do you plan to do second runs on Star Discs? Will there be more than white in the next run of Star SLs?

Thanks
ce



We have been doing second runs already, depending on the model. The first run of Star SLs did include red, yellow, and blue.




And Pink.

I know it's wishful thinking, but any ETA on Star Gremlin-Xs?



Not at this time

Star Sharks are Sweet !!!!

my main midrange now is a champ coyote but i want something a little more stable what would be a good disc?

I was looking at the list of PDGA approved discs on the website, and I don't see the Gremlin listed. Any idea why? Are these not legal for tourney play? Did I just miss it?



They were approved as the Sniper. I don't know why they are not also listed as the Gremlin.



does this mean that the gremlin = ching sniper?
if so then is it possible to bring back the tank?

Hey Dave long time reader first time poster ;)

So now that Am Worlds is over when are we going to see those fancy Star Orcs???

Scott



Should be available some time in September, I hope. They are up next to be run.



Good news, please? I've been way too careful with my last Tulsa SB...Stars will be a welcome relief.

my main midrange now is a champ coyote but i want something a little more stable what would be a good disc?



Star Shark

I was looking at the list of PDGA approved discs on the website, and I don't see the Gremlin listed. Any idea why? Are these not legal for tourney play? Did I just miss it?



They were approved as the Sniper. I don't know why they are not also listed as the Gremlin.



does this mean that the gremlin = ching sniper?
if so then is it possible to bring back the tank?



Yes to both.

I can't wait for the Star Orcs!!!
My SB Tulsa Orc is the most reliable distance disc in my bag.

Dave-
reviewing the recent additions to the innova line, it seems to me that the direction you're heading is more overstable drivers and more understable midranges. Am I reading into this too much or is there a formula I'm missing?

Can't wait to meet all the innova guys at the USDGC!!!! :)

Thanks!!!

Dave-
reviewing the recent additions to the innova line, it seems to me that the direction you're heading is more overstable drivers and more understable midranges. Am I reading into this too much or is there a formula I'm missing?



You're reading in too much. There is no specific direction. We are just trying to fill holes in the line or improve discs we have.

Dave,

Love the skeeter! :cool: What do you have with more speed with the same glide, turn and fade.

Thanks,
Ray

What do you have with more speed with the same glide, turn and fade.


TL (speed 7 as opposed to 4) and Starfire (2 fade instead of 1, speed 10). That's about all I can think of.
I also love the Skeeter, just can't get my hands on many.

Dave,

Love the skeeter! :cool: What do you have with more speed with the same glide, turn and fade.

Thanks,
Ray



Nothing yet. The low speed fade will be the toughest to reproduce in a faster disc.

Hey Dave,
Is there anything different about the star plastic in the new leopards? They seem extra grippy compared to all the other star plastic...is this just me or is anyone else noticing it??
Thanks!

Hey Dave,
Is there anything different about the star plastic in the new leopards? They seem extra grippy compared to all the other star plastic...is this just me or is anyone else noticing it??
Thanks!



There is nothing different in the plastic, but I have noticed differences from disc to disc in the same plastic.

i have seen some really grippy star discs as well. it is a shame they are not all like that. most star discs i have felt [lots] feel about as grippy [or less] than champ.

Hey Dave, quick question......
I am the recent recipiant of 2 USDGC champion roc's ( hooray for me ) ! Why does my orange eye roc lack the stability of my red throw back. Dont get me wrong, the eyeroc is the MOST stable roc I have ever thrown, yet it is lacking the stability of the throw back. I read on the MB , several convo's regarding color -vs- stability ( in reference to star plastic ) is there truth to this speculation?? Wether it be star or champion plastic????
P.S.
yes, they are both the same weight

Also, does innova posess a machine that " test's " the new plastic? Something that is going to throw the same time after time? I was thinking of a man vs. machine challenge on the disc golf course, John Henry style! Any chance I can see a pic of this "hypothetical" machine!
Thanks for your time!

Dave-
Just wanted to let you know that I think Kathy Hardyman A.K.A. Disc Diva would be a kick butt addition to your golf team.

I played 3 rounds with her at a PDGA event this last weekend, and she has a great game.

She is the current Worlds GM Champions.

She won USWDGC in 05.

She is a great promoter of womens disc golf, and disc golf in general.

She throws only Innova discs.

Her are her stats.

HOOK HER UP!

http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=19150

Dave, thanks for the Star Leopards they fly Great, nice to have a Leopard that has perfect flight characteristics of what I need for NC woods golf. Best Woods driver ever made.

also....The Star Shark is ouTTstanding, just a little less stable than the Champion with a very nice grippiness, looking forward to trying it out in the rain.

Both the Star Leopard and Star Shark went immediately into the bag for my tourney at the NC FDC's. Both got me several birds this past weekend.

Thanks
C U at THE Championship
Schweb

Schwebbie, you ready to play some PA woods golf and beat that sucka up?

You know it, that Star Leopard and Shark gonna be tearin' up Tyler State Park

Hey Dave, quick question......
I am the recent recipiant of 2 USDGC champion roc's ( hooray for me ) ! Why does my orange eye roc lack the stability of my red throw back. Dont get me wrong, the eyeroc is the MOST stable roc I have ever thrown, yet it is lacking the stability of the throw back. I read on the MB , several convo's regarding color -vs- stability ( in reference to star plastic ) is there truth to this speculation?? Wether it be star or champion plastic????
P.S.
yes, they are both the same weight



There have been differences between colors of the same plastic in the same mold. That being said, those differences are not always consistent.

Also, does innova posess a machine that " test's " the new plastic? Something that is going to throw the same time after time? I was thinking of a man vs. machine challenge on the disc golf course, John Henry style! Any chance I can see a pic of this "hypothetical" machine!
Thanks for your time!



We don't have any throwing machines. We test throw them the old fashioned way.

So is this the new bag....http://www.innovadiscs.com/bags/tour.html

I was thinking it was going to be completely reworked with internal frame and some other new features. Either way looks like a pretty tough bag.

http://www.innovadiscs.com/images/Tourbag2_sm.jpg

click here for more details (http://innovadiscs.com/bags/tour.html)

i've seen a picture of that bag in red. is it still available in that color?

i've seen a picture of that bag in red. is it still available in that color?



From what I understand this is the New bag and it comes in Black or Blue. It is very similar to the old tour bag.

So is this the new bag....http://www.innovadiscs.com/bags/tour.html

I was thinking it was going to be completely reworked with internal frame and some other new features. Either way looks like a pretty tough bag.



We have a different bag design as you describe in the works. The bag pictured is the regular tour bag made much tougher than previously.

I can't tell from the photos. Are the bottle holders on either end of the bag or both on the same end ?

Thanks

Also, does innova posess a machine that " test's " the new plastic?



When I win the lottery I am going to pay some engineering students to build one. It will be a giant sideways catapult!

When not testing discs I will use it to seige castles.

http://www.geocities.com/foshildgc/westernautomaticmodern.gif
"The trap machine above was the real workhorse of most gun clubs in all states. It is the Western electric trap. Used exclusively for decades (developed in the late 1940's), it is slowly being replaced by the automatic traps. Probably 99% of all gun clubs still use this Western electric trap, including the Grand American in Vandalia, Ohio. These traps are set by "trappers or setters" one target at a time."

All you would have to do is to modify the arm on one of these old machines. I used to hand load clay targets in machines like these for ATA sanctioned events as a teenager. They can be very dangerous but with less tension on the spring they might offer a stable uniform disc throwing machine. Since most shooting clubs have gone to automatic, state-of-the-art machines I bet they are available for a good price. They are cocked by a motor and released by an electric button and cord several yards away.

http://www.geocities.com/foshildgc/westernautomaticmodern.gif
"The trap machine above was the real workhorse of most gun clubs in all states. It is the Western electric trap. Used exclusively for decades (developed in the late 1940's), it is slowly being replaced by the automatic traps. Probably 99% of all gun clubs still use this Western electric trap, including the Grand American in Vandalia, Ohio. These traps are set by "trappers or setters" one target at a time."

All you would have to do is to modify the arm on one of these old machines. I used to hand load clay targets in machines like these for ATA sanctioned events as a teenager. They can be very dangerous but with less tension on the spring they might offer a stable uniform disc throwing machine. Since most shooting clubs have gone to automatic, state-of-the-art machines I bet they are available for a good price.



Good mawnin' John. Leave it to a Ramblin Wreck to start engineering. At Ramcat Ridge the south side is the disc course, but the north side has two post mounted Do-All clay traps for sporting clays. I know you could get a heckuva throw on a mini with no modification and the way the arms are set on the Do-All's probably with a golf disc as well. At most it would require a wider tray on bottom and possibly on top. I can feel some Wednesday afternoon experimentation coming. Raining bloody cats and kittens here today though. I'll report back.

Jamie
The Western trap is heavy, I'm guessing well over a hundred pounds each but are bolted down to concrete. I've met people who crippled hands &amp; lost fingers on these things, even a man hit in the face with the arm. Crushed one side of his face and left a really nasty scar. I have given considerable thought on how to modify the arms and make an adjustable top one or use brushes to keep the disc in place.
I've seen a video of how you use your little mounted trap. Squirrels are still planning revenge!!!
Never went to Ga. Tech but growing up in Atlanta was my favorite football team, especially in the Bobby Dodd era. Did play racketball &amp; tennis on the Ga Tech facilities as well as throw frisbee on Grant Field.

Jamie
The Western trap is heavy, I'm guessing well over a hundred pounds each but are bolted down to concrete. I've met people who crippled hands & lost fingers on these things, even a man hit in the face with the arm. Crushed one side of his face and left a really nasty scar. I have given considerable thought on how to modify the arms and make an adjustable top one or use brushes to keep the disc in place.
I've seen a video of how you use your little mounted trap. Squirrels are still planning revenge!!!
Never went to Ga. Tech but growing up in Atlanta was my favorite football team, especially in the Bobby Dodd era. Did play racketball & tennis on the Ga Tech facilities as well as throw frisbee on Grant Field.



Yup, a sporting clay course manager of my acquaintance took it between the eyes when he neglected to unplug an electric trap before adjusting it. Fortunately for him, he has a very hard head and fast reflexes, snatching his head back as he heard the relay trip.

Bet you ate a hotdog or two at the Varsity as well. :cool: