Amen! There is a reason Innova is #1. And they didn't get there by copying. The only reason discraft and gateway are around is because of Innova. Innova is the leader and everyone else is just trying to cash off Innova's success by mimicry. Just look at Discraft's attempt to copy star plastic (ESP).

Now Dave, WHERE ARE MY STAR FIREBIRDS AND STAR RHYNOS????????????

There is plenty of time for a CFR Ram.




:D:D:D:DYES!!! :D:D:D

Amen! There is a reason Innova is #1. And they didn't get there by copying. The only reason discraft and gateway are around is because of Innova. Innova is the leader and everyone else is just trying to cash off Innova's success by mimicry. Just look at Discraft's attempt to copy star plastic (ESP).



discraft was making esp for dga for 2 yrs. dga's proline i believe.

idk if anyone really copies anyone. its probably who gets their testing and designing done first. they are all probably thinking and heading in the same direction w/o really realizing that they are.

Where can I get Ram besides ebay, or can you? If it's like cheating I guess I should try one. Not that I cheat.

/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif :) :D :DRAM! ;)
/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif :) :D :DRAM! ;)
/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif :) :D :DRAM! ;)

:p

Where can I get Ram besides ebay, or can you? If it's like cheating I guess I should try one. Not that I cheat.



Another Believer! Testify!

I said it's like cheating...not it's cheating. We say that because it's like Dave moulds a remote control in them. :D

Cheap Rams (http://discgolf.gottagogottathrow.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/1/products_id/119)
More cheap Rams (http://www.chainreactiondiscgolf.com/INNOVA/discs_innova_dx.htm)

How long was the totem pole Teebird stamp used on dx Teebirds?

I want one...that stamp i thought looked a lot better than the current one

Amen! There is a reason Innova is #1. And they didn't get there by copying. The only reason discraft and gateway are around is because of Innova. Innova is the leader and everyone else is just trying to cash off Innova's success by mimicry. Just look at Discraft's attempt to copy star plastic (ESP).



discraft was making esp for dga for 2 yrs. dga's proline i believe.

idk if anyone really copies anyone. its probably who gets their testing and designing done first. they are all probably thinking and heading in the same direction w/o really realizing that they are.



:D Is that why Whamo now makes a Aviar type putter , you can purchase from Wal-Mart ?

Amen! There is a reason Innova is #1. And they didn't get there by copying. The only reason discraft and gateway are around is because of Innova. Innova is the leader and everyone else is just trying to cash off Innova's success by mimicry. Just look at Discraft's attempt to copy star plastic (ESP).

Now Dave, WHERE ARE MY STAR FIREBIRDS AND STAR RHYNOS????????????




Or not :confused:

wham-o sux anyway who cares what they do. i'm refering more to innova, discraft, lightning, gateway, dga, and now latitude 64 and discwing.

DGA's proline is not ESP. I was able to compare them directly when I played with Scott Keasey and Keith Murrey a couple of weeks ago.

Edit: Oops, ignore this post, accidental thread drift. Can't wait to throw the T-Rex!

This disc looks like a winner!

http://innovadiscs.com/discs/new_discs/star_tl.jpg

About the TL
The TL is the brother of the reliable TeeBird. The �L� stands for �Less Overstable� and �Longer�. This disc has the same great speed and glide as the TeeBird, but is straighter flying with less fade at the end of the flight. If you are looking for a straight flying maximum fairway driver in Pro-line Plastic, the TL is the answer.

About INNOVA's Star Plastic
INNOVA'S new Star Line is created with a special blend of grippy, resilient polymers. Star Plastic offers the same outstanding durability of our regular Champion Plastic, plus improved grip like our Pro Plastic. Star discs have the same flight rating characteristics of Champion discs, although some Star discs may be slightly more high-speed stable. High performance, longevity, and superior grip make Innova Star discs the ideal choice for your game. Star Line discs will become available in our most popular disc models during the coming year. Watch for your favorite Star on the horizon.

http://innovadiscs.com/discs/ratings/teebird_l.gif

http://innovadiscs.com/discs/ratings/speed-7.gif

- - - -
... can't wait until the Star Coyote! ...

How does the flight of the Ram compare to the flight of the Monster? If it is more overstable I may consider looking for some online... what plastics could I find them in?

Ram is only made in Dx-plastic (so far....... ;)).
My opinion is that the Monster is more overstable than the Ram, especially Monster X .
My old Ram�s are, after hitting a couple of trees and stuff you can compare them with Banshees.

Amen! There is a reason Innova is #1. And they didn't get there by copying. The only reason discraft and gateway are around is because of Innova. Innova is the leader and everyone else is just trying to cash off Innova's success by mimicry. Just look at Discraft's attempt to copy star plastic (ESP).

Now Dave, WHERE ARE MY STAR FIREBIRDS AND STAR RHYNOS????????????



Star Firebirds are running now. Rhynos are further down the line.

How does the flight of the Ram compare to the flight of the Monster? If it is more overstable I may consider looking for some online... what plastics could I find them in?



They both go hyzer quickly if you don't throw them very hard. Speed is the main difference. The Monster is much faster and capable of much longer shots in dead wind and into the wind. Monster is more durable as it is in Champion. Ram is in DX. Both have been made in X versions and normal versions.

How long was the totem pole Teebird stamp used on dx Teebirds?

I want one...that stamp i thought looked a lot better than the current one



It didn't last long (one run?). It was my design done by my son, but it wasn't liked here in the office.

Whaddya mean, Wham-O sucks? You ever play catch-and-throw with a 140g Midnight Flyer? It's one of the best frisbees ever made!

Now if we're talking about modern golf discs...oh sorry Dave, off topic.

Dave D., while we're on the subject, I remember I read that you offered your patent for the "beveled edge golf disc" to Steady Ed in the early 80's, but he was not interested? Can you give us some more details on this??? Did he actually throw a prototype, or did he just reject the notion immediately?

Also, what is this new Stegasaurus putter all about?

-E

Big Dave, Hows it goin?

I just rec'd my Japan Open INNcolor discs and one of them was a ST VL.

Is it a Valkyrie L? Is there more going into production?

Thats the regular valk mold. Before the Viking, they were VK. Now they label the Valks as VL.

Whaddya mean, Wham-O sucks? You ever play catch-and-throw with a 140g Midnight Flyer? It's one of the best frisbees ever made!

Now if we're talking about modern golf discs...oh sorry Dave, off topic.

Dave D., while we're on the subject, I remember I read that you offered your patent for the "beveled edge golf disc" to Steady Ed in the early 80's, but he was not interested? Can you give us some more details on this??? Did he actually throw a prototype, or did he just reject the notion immediately?

Also, what is this new Stegasaurus putter all about?

-E



Ed rejected the notion immediately.

The Stegasaurus comes from the company that brought you the Devilhawk.

Aren't those sorts of shenanigans supposed to wait until April? :p

Thats the regular valk mold. Before the Viking, they were VK. Now they label the Valks as VL.



THANKS! I thought I was special....and not in the short bus kind of way.

The Stegasaurus comes from the company that brought you the Develhawk.



:eek: :D:D:D:)

Whaddya mean, Wham-O sucks? You ever play catch-and-throw with a 140g Midnight Flyer? It's one of the best frisbees ever made!



I have to agree, for ex the Wham-O mold100, one of the best flying discs (frisbees) ever made!

Whaddya mean, Wham-O sucks? You ever play catch-and-throw with a 140g Midnight Flyer? It's one of the best frisbees ever made!



I have to agree, for ex the Wham-O mold100, one of the best flying discs (frisbees) ever made!



The original 80 mold was my favorite.

I'm more a 50 mold guy. 80 mold MF's are a little more rare, and too big for my liking.

FB3!

Also, what is this new Stegasaurus putter all about?




Putter with spikes that stick to the chains!

sounds like a fun disc to play catch with ;) ;)

Man, that's weird that Ed rejected the beveled-edge disc design without testing a prototype first...didn't he do some product development for Wham-O? You would think that someone so involved with frisbee development would at least be open to new disc innovations and give it a try...

Anyway, I'm a 40-mold guy myself. I just lost my sweet sweet naked #5 MNF 40-mold in the surf while night throwing on the beach with a buddy a few weeks ago!

From what i hear a lot of the players back in the day thought Dave's idea was crazy. Great ideas are often shunned at first, but who's laughing now? :D

Whamo rejected Dave's idea so now Whamo is ancient, we have Innova, and other companies have sprung forth following (cloning) Innova's lead /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I feel stupid for asking but.. Why do Innova and Discraft have the same patent number?

i have never heard of a monster X...how do you tell the difference? were these done recently? i've been throwing the same monster forever, but i have a ton of them...are the X ones marked?

i know what the x means as far as cooling...just didnt know there were different monsters.

I had the same question as Brian!! I have only thrown 1 monster and it's been in my bag about 1 1/2 yrs..It's my #1 utility disc!!I had no idea there were 2 versions!!

I went out and found one of each. The best I can say, the original Monster, the L version, has a bottom similar to an early starfire or original Beast. The X version has a bottom quite similar to a Starfire X.

I do not think I have thrown both types.

#1 in making people think that these discs are any different or better than champion.

CE, Pro, Champion, Pro line, Special blend, Star.

Seems to me that innova is just trying to make more discs for sale instead of improving their line.

And do we really need all these discs that do the same thing? Sidewinder Roadrunner SL valk CFR wraith all do the same thing in my opinion.

#1 in making people think that these discs are any different or better than champion.

CE, Pro, Champion, Pro line, Special blend, Star.

Seems to me that innova is just trying to make more discs for sale instead of improving their line.

And do we really need all these discs that do the same thing? Sidewinder Roadrunner SL valk CFR wraith all do the same thing in my opinion.


OK buddy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/******).
The patent # is for the "beveled edge disc" I heard Discraft was paying royalties, but that was a few years ago.

#1 in making people think that these discs are any different or better than champion.

CE, Pro, Champion, Pro line, Special blend, Star.

Seems to me that innova is just trying to make more discs for sale instead of improving their line.

And do we really need all these discs that do the same thing? Sidewinder Roadrunner SL valk CFR wraith all do the same thing in my opinion.



[facetious mode on]

yes, shame on them for offering many types of discs to their customers. it would be sooo much better if they only had one plastic and maybe 2 putters, 2 mids, and 2 drivers to choose from /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :eek:

[facetious mode off]

The thing that jumps out to me about Innova is that it seems like the company has always been about a disc golfer designing discs for disc golfers and being the number 1 innovator. Look how much they donate to the USDGC instead of raking in the money made by selling Special edition Rocs. My impression is that Innova is almost completely about disc golf, whereas the #2 disc golf seller focuses quite a bit on Ultimate...

I actually think the Star SL is a better disc then the Wraith and flew farher when I threw them out in a field this past weekend.

Who said they should only offer 2 drivers. I am just curious why they would make so many discs that fly so similar.

And The CE, Pro-line, and Champion is basically the same plastic and it just seems convenient that they keep reintroducing so called new types of plastic.

Don't get my wrong my bag is all Innova, Champion, with one star wraith which would be champion if the champion wraith had any stablity to it at all.

CE was discontinued because the PDGA informed Innova that the rigidity of the plastic was borderline in terms of passing the safety standards of the PDGA for discs. Innova therefore changed to the CE line to Champion which was still a very durable candy plastic. Pro line is a grippier plastic that is more durable than DX but not as durable or as slick as Champion. If you read Blake's articles on choosing plastic he reveals reasons why different types of plastic can be better for specific applications and arm strengths. i believe Blake prefers DX plastic for its higher air friction. STAR is a new Innovation which combines the durability of Champion and the grippiness of Pro. As far as i can tell -- it is in demand and well-liked. The STAR line was preceded by SB Rocs and SB Orcs -- both of which were liked and in high demand for their superior combination of grippiness and durability.

if you find little difference between them use what works for you. there are some of us who find a big difference where others find little. fortunately Innova gives us choices.

disclaimer: the above is my personal take -- ymmv

OK, thread drift off fellas...

I've thrown both the Monster-L and Monster-X (the x was 172 and the L was 175)

They threw basically the same, the L was (maybe) slightly longer, but they were both very overstable. I use them for forehands, but honestly I like the firebird more. The MonsterX was most similar to the firebird.

The smaller rim felt nicer as a forehand disc.

Hope that answers... ummm, something.

Just a little ********: Quit the Innova vs. the world junk, this is Dave D.s page, and he should be given the respect he deserves. I don't care if you hate Innova, Dave D is a hall of fame tribute to Disc Golf, and questioning Innova practices on HIS page is just dis-respectful

Is what is being referred to as a Monster-L the first run of Monsters which weren't overstable enough and therefore got tweaked? How many of those were made?

that's what I meant anyways...

Pro-line Monster- Monster L
Champion Monster- Monster X

Is this what I am hearing?

I am pretty sure that the original monsters were X mold then it was tweaked to the l version you see now

Pro-line Monster- Monster L
Champion Monster- Monster X

Is this what I am hearing?



I have to agree with Wood, that is what I have heard too. I think first came the one with Pro-Line stamp (In champion plastic though ) then came the second run made from the X-mold with Champion-stamp. Is there a third run?

Dave what is the truth?

I feel stupid for asking but.. Why do Innova and Discraft have the same patent number?



They licensed our patent, but it has expired.

Pro-line Monster- Monster L
Champion Monster- Monster X

Is this what I am hearing?



I have to agree with Wood, that is what I have heard too. I think first came the one with Pro-Line stamp (In champion plastic though ) then came the second run made from the X-mold with Champion-stamp. Is there a third run?

Dave what is the truth?



The original Monsters and the current Monsters are the same. There was an intermediate run of X Monsters that proved a little too extreme, so we went back to the original.

Good Morning, you are up early Dave !

You can easily tell the Monster X vs. the Monster L...here's the test:

Take a monster, hold it at arms length out at head height. Drop the disc. If it falls straight down, it's an "L". If it falls to the Left, it's an "X".
:D

I actually think the Star SL is a better disc then the Wraith and flew farher when I threw them out in a field this past weekend.


Amen...bruddah scoot_er!

I actually think the Star SL is a better disc then the Wraith and flew farher when I threw them out in a field this past weekend.


Amen...bruddah scoot_er!



I'll agree, the glide is huge on the sl, but you need alot more room to make it work...like a field. I busted some sl's yesterday 30-50' further, but used a soccer field's width to do it.
Step up to a michigan fairway and the sl might not be the first choice in my bag. IMO

I actually think the Star SL is a better disc then the Wraith and flew farher when I threw them out in a field this past weekend.


Amen...bruddah scoot_er!



I'll agree, the glide is huge on the sl, but you need alot more room to make it work...like a field. I busted some sl's yesterday 30-50' further, but used a soccer field's width to do it.
Step up to a michigan fairway and the sl might not be the first choice in my bag. IMO



I have discs that fly farther though but I don't want to mention them on here. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Why?

I know that my H illusion has become the farthest rolling disc I have ever had in my bag, but I have not found a gate way disc that goes as far as my star wraith. Those things boom!!!!!!!!!!! :)

I actually think the Star SL is a better disc then the Wraith and flew farher when I threw them out in a field this past weekend.


Amen...bruddah scoot_er!



I'll agree, the glide is huge on the sl, but you need alot more room to make it work...like a field. I busted some sl's yesterday 30-50' further, but used a soccer field's width to do it.
Step up to a michigan fairway and the sl might not be the first choice in my bag. IMO



I have discs that fly father though but I don't want to mention them on here. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Maybe in your climate...remember, It's 40 degrees up here...and we've got more elevation...so your "further" may become "you're still away" in Michigan! :p

Ummmmmmm...............OR NOT

" I actually think the Star SL is a better disc then the Wraith and flew farher when I threw them out in a field this past weekend."

I really think that may depend on the thrower.

How long was the totem pole Teebird stamp used on dx Teebirds?

I want one...that stamp i thought looked a lot better than the current one



It didn't last long (one run?). It was my design done by my son, but it wasn't liked here in the office.



Do you know where i can find any of these?

" I actually think the Star SL is a better disc then the Wraith and flew farher when I threw them out in a field this past weekend."

I really think that may depend on the thrower.



The SL is less dependant on nose angle.

How long was the totem pole Teebird stamp used on dx Teebirds?



Do you know where i can find any of these?



I found one on eBay about a year ago. Very cool stamp btw.

How long was the totem pole Teebird stamp used on dx Teebirds?

I want one...that stamp i thought looked a lot better than the current one



It didn't last long (one run?). It was my design done by my son, but it wasn't liked here in the office.



Do you know where i can find any of these?



Sorry, no idea. I would ask collectors.

" I actually think the Star SL is a better disc then the Wraith and flew farher when I threw them out in a field this past weekend."

I really think that may depend on the thrower.



The SL is less dependant on nose angle.



Harder Flat angle ?

How long was the totem pole Teebird stamp used on dx Teebirds?

I want one...that stamp i thought looked a lot better than the current one



It didn't last long (one run?). It was my design done by my son, but it wasn't liked here in the office.



Do you know where i can find any of these?



Sorry, no idea. I would ask collectors.


I'd start with DTW, he was selling these on eBay.

I'll throw the Star SL. White ones OK ?

I don't like the white. Get a colored one with the zonedriven stamp. I like red.

how does the star SL compare to the pro Starfire? im gonna guess the star is a little more overstable.

Hey Dave
I have a question about the Wraith and thowing in general.
I was at the memorial and throwing my wraith over 400' and today in michigan I find that with the same throw the Wraith would not go as far. The air hear seems thicker than arizona, and it seems to turn my wraith over faster. IN AZ I was getting the nice angle on the star wraiths whereas here they turn over into the ground with the same throw. Do you think more overstable plastic would help? I seem to get the most power with an anhyzer release and the nice left to right angle that hooks up at the end. Whatws your thoughts on throwing out west in dry air and out east in sticky humid air?

how does the star SL compare to the pro Starfire? im gonna guess the star is a little more overstable.



The Star SL does not turn as much at high speed.

Hey Dave
I have a question about the Wraith and thowing in general.
I was at the memorial and throwing my wraith over 400' and today in michigan I find that with the same throw the Wraith would not go as far. The air hear seems thicker than arizona, and it seems to turn my wraith over faster. IN AZ I was getting the nice angle on the star wraiths whereas here they turn over into the ground with the same throw. Do you think more overstable plastic would help? I seem to get the most power with an anhyzer release and the nice left to right angle that hooks up at the end. Whatws your thoughts on throwing out west in dry air and out east in sticky humid air?



There is a little difference that is made worse by your throwing style. You would be better off with a Star TeeRex as you attack on a slight anhyzer. If you started hyzer, you would be better of with a Wraith. I have seen studies that discount the wet vs dry air effect, but my experience tells me there is an effect, even if it is a multiple factor, such as temperature, grip, etc. I have also seen studies that say that bumble bees can't fly.

Hey Dave,
One quick question...
When are the Star TeeRexs coming out?
(I can't wait for these!!)

Hey Dave,
One quick question...
When are the Star TeeRexs coming out?
(I can't wait for these!!)

Hey Dave,
One quick question...
When are the Star TeeRexs coming out?
(I can't wait for these!!)

sorry about that.

Hey Dave,
One quick question...
When are the Star TeeRexs coming out?
(I can't wait for these!!)



They are scheduled for general release around the 1st of April. Some tournaments may have some before that.

thanks dave, do you think it is better to attack to throw the disc with a slight anhyser or slight hyzer, or which is more consistent and used by the top pros today. Thanks for the feedback, and I saw a study that proved that headaches cause some degree of pain.

thanks dave, do you think it is better to attack to throw the disc with a slight anhyser or slight hyzer, or which is more consistent and used by the top pros today. Thanks for the feedback, and I saw a study that proved that headaches cause some degree of pain.



Both methods of attack are used by top pros. Most top pros use stable discs as they are more consistent in varying wind conditions, rather than either method. Anhyzer attack is easier to get distance with, and is generally more consistent, but takes wider fairways than hyzer flip methods.

thanks dave, do you think it is better to attack to throw the disc with a slight anhyser or slight hyzer, or which is more consistent and used by the top pros today. Thanks for the feedback, and I saw a study that proved that headaches cause some degree of pain.



Both methods of attack are used by top pros. Most top pros use stable discs as they are more consistent in varying wind conditions, rather than either method. Anhyzer attack is easier to get distance with, and is generally more consistent, but takes wider fairways than hyzer flip methods.



Makes sense to me, so stable disc being t-bird, tee rex, what about star fire, is the new star teeebird tl considered stable, I will look on the innova site to but nice to hear it from the teerex's mouth.

Both methods of attack are used by top pros. Most top pros use stable discs as they are more consistent in varying wind conditions, rather than either method. Anhyzer attack is easier to get distance with, and is generally more consistent, but takes wider fairways than hyzer flip methods.



Dave, presently on very tight long fairways i use a broken in Pro Orc or a Ch. Roadrunner and throw nose up hyzer to get a low straight flight. Do you think using a disc like a TL or a Sidewinder is a better choice to cut down on fade at the end?
Do top Pros often go with a midrange in those situations?

thanks dave, do you think it is better to attack to throw the disc with a slight anhyser or slight hyzer, or which is more consistent and used by the top pros today. Thanks for the feedback, and I saw a study that proved that headaches cause some degree of pain.



Both methods of attack are used by top pros. Most top pros use stable discs as they are more consistent in varying wind conditions, rather than either method. Anhyzer attack is easier to get distance with, and is generally more consistent, but takes wider fairways than hyzer flip methods.



Makes sense to me, so stable disc being t-bird, tee rex, what about star fire, is the new star teeebird tl considered stable, I will look on the innova site to but nice to hear it from the teerex's mouth.



Star Firebird and FL are both stable type discs and can be thrown anhyzer. The Star TL is slightly unstable and more suitable for hyzer attack.

Both methods of attack are used by top pros. Most top pros use stable discs as they are more consistent in varying wind conditions, rather than either method. Anhyzer attack is easier to get distance with, and is generally more consistent, but takes wider fairways than hyzer flip methods.



Dave, presently on very tight long fairways i use a broken in Pro Orc or a Ch. Roadrunner and throw nose up hyzer to get a low straight flight. Do you think using a disc like a TL or a Sidewinder is a better choice to cut down on fade at the end?
Do top Pros often go with a midrange in those situations?



A TL or Sidewinder will both give good results in those situations, but I wouldn't say they are a better choice than a Roadrunner. If accuracy is at a premium over distance, many Pros choose midranges like Rocs or possibly a disc like a Leopard or JLS.

Hey Dave. Loving the 150 class STAR T's, STAR Valks and 160ish STAR SL's. Are 150 class STAR Firebirds going to be available with this first run?

As always thanks much for your time.

Star Whippets by August ?

It would be a very happy birthday for me if they were!!

Hey Dave. Loving the 150 class STAR T's, STAR Valks and 160ish STAR SL's. Are 150 class STAR Firebirds going to be available with this first run?

As always thanks much for your time.



We will try, but I don't think we will be able to make Star Firebirds in 150 class.

Star Whippets by August ?



Hope so. Don't know yet.

any chance the viking is goning to be released in something besides champ/dx plastic?

Give it a shot. As good as the "pop" is on the other STAR discs....... If it doesn't fly (nyuk, nyuk, nyuk) in STAR how 'bout 150 class FB in the Wraith type DX? Thanks Dave. We appreciate it.

Cool !!!!! Keep up the great work !!!! :D

Star is likely.

Give it a shot. As good as the "pop" is on the other STAR discs....... If it doesn't fly (nyuk, nyuk, nyuk) in STAR how 'bout 150 class FB in the Wraith type DX? Thanks Dave. We appreciate it.



We will try the FB in the new DX, including 150 class.

Give it a shot. As good as the "pop" is on the other STAR discs....... If it doesn't fly (nyuk, nyuk, nyuk) in STAR how 'bout 150 class FB in the Wraith type DX? Thanks Dave. We appreciate it.



We will try the FB in the new DX, including 150 class.



EXCELLENT!!! :D:cool:

This is the first time in a long while that this thread is not on the 1st page. I don't like it.
Dave- How many discs did Innova produce in 2005? Or sell, whichever is easiest.

Yeah, Dave :)

i wanted to ask Scooter how old he was in 1983, but that would probably just encourage him /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dave, thanks again for the Coyote! definitely a keeper.

also, it may be 23 years too late but -- thanks for getting the beveled edged disc idea off and running with flying colors.
i think this Innovation might just work out pretty well for you, despite what the critics may say :p

This is the first time in a long while that this thread is not on the 1st page. I don't like it.
Dave- How many discs did Innova produce in 2005? Or sell, whichever is easiest.



That is proprietary information, but we did make a lot more than we sold because of rejects and sponsorships. Also, like most other years, we sold more than the year before. Our first year, we sold about 20,000 discs. We grind up more than 20,000 rejects now.

1 million discs maybe.... ;) :D

You guys are gonna freak out on the Tee-Rex :D
If you thought the Wraith gave you that crazy extra speed and distance, but found them just a little touchy esp. in a head wind. Booooom, the Tee-Rex This disc is awesome and the timing couldn't be better as most of the country heads into the blustery winds of spring.
Nice work Innova!

Star Whippets by August ?



Hope so. Don't know yet.



Awwwww, say it ain't so!!!! Why do you want to do a whippet mold instead of a ram mold? they are essentially the same disc...is it name recognition?
With all these newbies out here, you could "reintroduce" the ram and it would take off HUGE!!! They wouldn't even know it has been an Innova staple disc since the 80's. You re-did the Aero, why not give it a chance? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

:D Can't stick a ram in a cage...like my whippet did out at old settlers on the 4th. :D What a yummy ace!!!

:D Can't stick a ram in a cage...like my whippet did out at old settlers on the 4th. :D What a yummy ace!!!



You're right, you can't cage a ram!!! You gotta let it fly!! ;)

You might be able to cage a star ram though. :)

Hey Dave, do you know when the redesigned tour bag is coming out??

thanks!

Dave, was the Innova Thunderbird ever actually made? If so, what did it fly like?

Dave, was the Innova Thunderbird ever actually made? If so, what did it fly like?



Probably flies alot like a Tee-bird! ;) Notice that on the WFDF list there is no Tee-bird except for a CE. I assume Thunderbird is the long (or first) name for Tee-bird.

You guys are gonna freak out on the Tee-Rex :D
If you thought the Wraith gave you that crazy extra speed and distance, but found them just a little touchy esp. in a head wind. Booooom, the Tee-Rex This disc is awesome and the timing couldn't be better as most of the country heads into the blustery winds of spring.
Nice work Innova!



I need to get my hands on a few of those !!!!! :D

I do like the Star TL . Sweet fairway driver. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Hey Dave my friend found a Phenox and it is in good shape and we dont want to throw it, but it is obviously before our time and can't figure out if it is a driver, or a midrange, so I was wondering what you could tell us about it.

It's a World distance record holder. Not many were made, I'd keep that sucker.

How far was it thrown I heard a rumor that Gunner used to throw it was it him?

Sam Ferrans set the record with a Phenix. I think it was 190 meters. Not sure of the year I'm thinking '89 or '90

Thats a lot father than I can throw with the discs that are out today.

Thats a lot father than I can throw with the discs that are out today.


Same thing with Sam! :D

Hey Dave, do you know when the redesigned tour bag is coming out??

thanks!



I believe they are being produced now, but I don't know how long it will take to get them to market. Sorry.

Dave, was the Innova Thunderbird ever actually made? If so, what did it fly like?



As Tafe says, it was the longer name of the TeeBird.

Thats a lot father than I can throw with the discs that are out today.


Same thing with Sam! :D



It's true. :eek: :D

Hey Dave my friend found a Phenox and it is in good shape and we dont want to throw it, but it is obviously before our time and can't figure out if it is a driver, or a midrange, so I was wondering what you could tell us about it.



The Phoenix was a retooled Aero made to break the world record. It was never very popular as a golf disc as it was difficult to stop at the target. The record was thrown by Sam Ferrans in 1988, with a 176 gm Phenix. The Phenix was legal up to 190 gms. It has been out of production for ten years or more.

So you guys are saying that a 187 glow (white) Phenix with a custom rainbow stamp in never thrown condition may have value? Seems like there may be a pinkish glow one in a box around here somewhere too.

Hi Dave!!!
Which '06 roc is going to be the most overstable? I've got a 180 glow, a 180 star, and a 180 eye. I want to start breaking in one but I need an overstable sucka. My flagstick is just getting there after a year's worth of abuse and parkjobs. Thanks!

So you guys are saying that a 187 glow (white) Phenix with a custom rainbow stamp in never thrown condition may have value? Seems like there may be a pinkish glow one in a box around here somewhere too.



The Phenix with a Star stamp runs about $20 on a good day. I used to throw one, got a skip ace in a tournament. Also, hit a bum in the forehead, busted him wide open.

Dave, where are the star firebirds??????

So you guys are saying that a 187 glow (white) Phenix with a custom rainbow stamp in never thrown condition may have value? Seems like there may be a pinkish glow one in a box around here somewhere too.



The Phenix with a Star stamp runs about $20 on a good day. I used to throw one, got a skip ace in a tournament. Also, hit a bum in the forehead, busted him wide open.

did you let the bum keep it??

hit a bum in the forehead


Who said that disc wasn't accurate?

Also, hit a bum in the forehead, busted him wide open.


You Vegas guys.

I remember seeing the "bum nut roller" out there once. High speed roller with eyes to roll right between the legs of a sleeping bum. Nailed him and popped up and over him and kept going. If that poor guy had snappier reflexes it would've cracked him in the face, too.

Hi Dave!!!
Which '06 roc is going to be the most overstable? I've got a 180 glow, a 180 star, and a 180 eye. I want to start breaking in one but I need an overstable sucka. My flagstick is just getting there after a year's worth of abuse and parkjobs. Thanks!



I don't know first hand, but from what I have been told, the glow are the most overstable. I would ask the east coast guys, or other people who have thrown and compared.

Dave, where are the star firebirds??????



Running now. Available in a couple of weeks.

dave, any word if there will be a regular (non-USDGC)production of star roc's? any idea on what mold these would be?

"bum nut roller" ....... High speed roller with eyes to roll right between the legs of a sleeping bum. Nailed him and popped up and over him and kept going.



That is a riot!!!! :D:D:D
Who was looking for a band name?

"Alright, put your hands together for Las Vegas' own, 'Bum Nut Roller!'" :D

dave, any word if there will be a regular (non-USDGC)production of star roc's? any idea on what mold these would be?



I can go ahead and tell ya that you won't see any non-usdgc rocs(champ or star).

dave, any word if there will be a regular (non-USDGC)production of star roc's? any idea on what mold these would be?



I can go ahead and tell ya that you won't see any non-usdgc rocs(champ or star).



are you sure about that?

Champ. Classic Roc (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3113-CHCRC&Category_Code=3113)

http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/chclrocgreen.jpg

:confused:

dave, any word if there will be a regular (non-USDGC)production of star roc's? any idea on what mold these would be?



I can go ahead and tell ya that you won't see any non-usdgc rocs(champ or star).



are you sure about that?

Champ. Classic Roc (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3113-CHCRC&Category_Code=3113)

http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/chclrocgreen.jpg

:confused:



yep i am very sure...the classic rocs are nothing like the USDGC rocs

dave, any word if there will be a regular (non-USDGC)production of star roc's? any idea on what mold these would be?


No. All of these have been slated for USDGC.

dave, any word if there will be a regular (non-USDGC)production of star roc's? any idea on what mold these would be?



I can go ahead and tell ya that you won't see any non-usdgc rocs(champ or star).



are you sure about that?

Champ. Classic Roc (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3113-CHCRC&Category_Code=3113)

http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/chclrocgreen.jpg

:confused:



We will do Star Classic Rocs

dave, any word if there will be a regular (non-USDGC)production of star roc's? any idea on what mold these would be?



I can go ahead and tell ya that you won't see any non-usdgc rocs(champ or star).



are you sure about that?

Champ. Classic Roc (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3113-CHCRC&Category_Code=3113)

http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/chclrocgreen.jpg

:confused:



We will do Star Classic Rocs



thanks, dave....that's the news I've been waiting to hear. any idea as to when? the pro-line classic I have is just about ready to be retired...

dave, any word if there will be a regular (non-USDGC)production of star roc's? any idea on what mold these would be?


No. All of these have been slated for USDGC.



We were just discussing this last night. Thanks for the piece of mind with my investment and the investment to the tournament!!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Dave, I love the DX Wraith and I was just wondering what discs you're planning to put out in the new DX, and how soon? Any chance on a DX Starfire X? Thanks.

dave, any word if there will be a regular (non-USDGC)production of star roc's? any idea on what mold these would be?



I can go ahead and tell ya that you won't see any non-usdgc rocs(champ or star).



are you sure about that?

Champ. Classic Roc (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3113-CHCRC&Category_Code=3113)

http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/chclrocgreen.jpg

:confused:



We will do Star Classic Rocs



thanks, dave....that's the news I've been waiting to hear. any idea as to when? the pro-line classic I have is just about ready to be retired...



We are going to try to do them sooner, rather than later. They will go into the CFR program for tournaments. Santa Cruz's Masters Cup will have them soonest.

Dave, I love the DX Wraith and I was just wondering what discs you're planning to put out in the new DX, and how soon? Any chance on a DX Starfire X? Thanks.



We want to do all of the line in the new DX. We are having some technical problems with it. When we get it right, the discs are really good. But, the consistency of molding for some of the discs is not as good as we would like yet. There is a good chance, we will do DX Starfires (x).

Oh, yeah! I'd definitely relish a 150-class Starfire. BTW - 150-class DX Wraiths & Vikings are SWEET!

DX Sidewinder would be awesome! :)

DX Sidewinder would be awesome! :)



As much as I like the Sidewinder, I don't think DX would work too well. I would love the grip, but it would get beat up too quick and be REAL flippy.

Hey Dave, any thoughts on an Aviar Driver in Star Plastic? I love the 10x's but the 11x's get beat up a little too fast for my liking. Star would be awesome...

DX Sidewinder would be awesome! :)



As much as I like the Sidewinder, I don't think DX would work too well. I would love the grip, but it would get beat up too quick and be REAL flippy.

Hey Dave, any thoughts on an Aviar Driver in Star Plastic? I love the 10x's but the 11x's get beat up a little too fast for my liking. Star would be awesome...



It's not high on the priority list, but it will happen by the end of the year. Maybe sooner.

Hey Dave,
Can't wait to get my hands on one of those star Firebirds, are the 1st runs going to be FX or FL?

Thanks,
Edward

Hey Dave,
Can't wait to get my hands on one of those star Firebirds, are the 1st runs going to be FX or FL?

Thanks,
Edward



Star Firebirds(x) are first.

Hey Dave i've been throwing the T Rex that Sam gave me. I love how they can be thrown in a headwind and still get the distance of a wraith. are you going to make it in the champion plastic any time soon and will it be more overstable

Dave

Are there plans to run anymore "Special Blend" Orcs or will a 'Star" version be coming out anytime soon. The lighter ones fly great for me but are impossislbe to find at this time.

Hi dave--for rollers i have been using whatever old and beat-up discs i have laying around. i want to figure out something more consistant. what do you recomend for a "out of the box" roller? i have the shorter control rollers covered, so i am looking for something that will fly aways first, then roll. i tried the sidewinder [champ] and loved how i could throw it 250 in the air and the understability would let it roll for a ways after that. i did not like how it was prone to "curl-out" hard to the right once it got rolling. i can adjust to compensate for this, but then the thing rolls way left before cutting back way right. i was thinking of a dx valk or roadrunner. is the rr true to it's ratings? how does it differ in the air and on the ground from the sidewinder? thanks again for your time--i am loving the star tl!

For pure distance rollers in the field, I am loving the pro starfire. I release it on about a 45 degree angle, it gets a little more than 100' air D then rolls forever.

The Star TeeRex is now available from both INNOVA West and East. This new release carries a special Champion Star stamp.

Hey Dave i've been throwing the T Rex that Sam gave me. I love how they can be thrown in a headwind and still get the distance of a wraith. are you going to make it in the champion plastic any time soon and will it be more overstable



We are making the TeeRex in Star first. (Released today). Then we are making it in DX. If we make it in Champion, it will be later in the year.

Dave

Are there plans to run anymore "Special Blend" Orcs or will a 'Star" version be coming out anytime soon. The lighter ones fly great for me but are impossislbe to find at this time.



We will be making Star Orcs in the future.

Then we are making it in DX.



150-class? ( I sure hope so.)

Hi dave--for rollers i have been using whatever old and beat-up discs i have laying around. i want to figure out something more consistant. what do you recomend for a "out of the box" roller? i have the shorter control rollers covered, so i am looking for something that will fly aways first, then roll. i tried the sidewinder [champ] and loved how i could throw it 250 in the air and the understability would let it roll for a ways after that. i did not like how it was prone to "curl-out" hard to the right once it got rolling. i can adjust to compensate for this, but then the thing rolls way left before cutting back way right. i was thinking of a dx valk or roadrunner. is the rr true to it's ratings? how does it differ in the air and on the ground from the sidewinder? thanks again for your time--i am loving the star tl!



The Leopard is one of our most consistent rollers. Valks, Sidewinders, and Roadrunners are good too, and are listed from slowest to fastest turning in the air. The Roadrunner has the best physics for rolling of these three, and is the one I would recommend of the three. My roller of choice at this moment is the new Beast. It comes in Champion, Star, and DX. I roll the Champion at the moment, but will probably switch to Star.

I have some high power roller friends who can't roll anything but CE Valkyries. I have others who roll Firebirds and Whippets. I would only recommend discs that have a slow consistent turn on the ground. What they do in the air is a different factor. Also, I throw sidearm and backhand so I need a disc that can handle the torque of a sidearm.

I hope some of this rambling helps.

Then we are making it in DX.



150-class? ( I sure hope so.)



Yes

We are making the TeeRex in Star first. (Released today).

[/QUOTE]

Who do I need to contact to order a few?

I have others who roll Firebirds and Whippets.



Whippets? Oh my G*D I can't imagine trying to roll a whippet.

Thanks for the breakdown on rollers, Dave.

Champion Whippets kick burro for FH & BH cut rollers. :D

Shhhhhhh...........that's supposed to be a secret !!! :eek: :D

P.S. - try one of the softer Whippets they made in 1992 !!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Hello Mr Dave.

Whats the word on the Gremlin? Also, I really like the stamp on the Teerex. Its sweet.

Hello Mr Dave.

Whats the word on the Gremlin? Also, I really like the stamp on the Teerex. Its sweet.



We did a small run of Star Gremlins before we got interupted. They are in the CFR program for tournaments.

Hello Mr Dave.

Whats the word on the Gremlin? Also, I really like the stamp on the Teerex. Its sweet.



We did a small run of Star Gremlins before we got interupted. They are in the CFR program for tournaments.




Sweet news. Ill be using them to CFR our 1st event.
How did the Gremlin test in STAR? Also, how the Goblin fit into Innovas mid-range arsenal?

Picked up an orange STAR Aviar and it feels awesome. Definitely going to second the suggestion for running these in the driver mold if possible. That would replace my KC's for sure. I dont really like the normal P&A's off the tee but we will see how this one goes.

I like the Stars off the tee, also. I used it this weekend ( in the wind ) and threw it on a few 250> holes, and was very impressed. The orange I have is beefy.

Hello Mr Dave.

Whats the word on the Gremlin? Also, I really like the stamp on the Teerex. Its sweet.



We did a small run of Star Gremlins before we got interupted. They are in the CFR program for tournaments.




Sweet news. Ill be using them to CFR our 1st event.
How did the Gremlin test in STAR? Also, how the Goblin fit into Innovas mid-range arsenal?



The Star Gremlin test run went very well. It was a fairly straight flyer. The DX test did not go well. It was squirly so we didn't continue. Before we could go back to the Star, we got interupted by a more pressing order. We will try again later both to make DX work and to make more Star.

It must have been pretty important in order to halt the almighty Gremlin. :D

It must have been pretty important in order to halt the almighty Gremlin. :D




Probably pressing more rams! :cool:

It must have been pretty important in order to halt the almighty Gremlin. :D



hopefully Dave realized it was high time he made himself a few Star Coyotes :D

Wasnt there a test run of Coyotes done?

if my memory is right, Dave said he hasn't yet made or tested any when i asked how the Star Coyote compares to the Champ Coyote in terms of flight...

Ive seen and sold Coyotes not in Champion plastic. Completely opaque, and very tacky. I sold a black one at Christmas, and still have a blue one. ;)

those were pre "Star" more of a special blend.

They arent Champion. And, they arent really any different than the prototype STARs floating around, mainly in black plastic. They have the regular Champion stamps.

I've got one, too. It feels (to me) like the other opaque black Champion discs I have (Orc, Cobra, Eagle, Valk, Teebird, Roadrunner, Beast, Viking), but not so much like SB or STAR. My $0.02.

Here were Dave's comment on the black Coyotes.

http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/remlinker.php?Cat=&Entry=9070&F_Board=Equipment&Thread=461234&Main=460579

I still have my Royal Blue Coyote ( 179 grams ) in my current bag. Helped me get a CTP on a short water hole a few days ago. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I just got 2 in the mail from Tmurph, an Eagle and another Champion Beast. Im comparing it with the Star Beast. Dead on. The Eagle, not so much. Its got better grip than champion, but isnt opaque like Star. All the others I have are also dead on including the Teebird, Valk, Beast, ect. I dont have a Viking though.

Cant forget, some things just escape from behind those walls. I got a KC 11x thats made in the SB Orc plastic. Its red and nasty, and I havent heard of many more.

There used to be some black vikings on the twistedflyer page that looked a whole like the pre-star black coyote I've got.

dave,
could you compare a goblin to a buzz?

thanks,
whit

HEy Dave]

What would be the most consistent disc for someone who maxes out around 375 to 400 to get max distance throwing 80-90 percent.
i know this question is kinda subjective. Prob trex right, i have 4 ordered to try them.
thanks

dave,
could you compare a goblin to a buzz?

thanks,
whit



I have not thrown a buzz. But my guess is that a buzz is a longer flyer.

HEy Dave]

What would be the most consistent disc for someone who maxes out around 375 to 400 to get max distance throwing 80-90 percent.
i know this question is kinda subjective. Prob trex right, i have 4 ordered to try them.
thanks



I would not recommend a TeeRex unless you are a big arm or throw anhyzer type drives. For your range, I would recommend a Viking, TeeBird, Starfire,Eagle, SL, TL. These are the most consistent at that range. Valkyries, Roadrunners, Sidewinders, Beasts, Wraiths and Orcs will go farther, but are not as consistent.

I do like to throw anhyzer type of drives so I will enjoy the trex I think
thanks for the input Dave

Dave,
Is the Star Stingray anything like the Champion stingrays? I really like my champion stingray, but I am not sure how the star will compare. less stable.. more stable.. ?

-Scott Lewis

p.s. This questions is directed at anyone that happens to know the answer.

Dave,
Is the Star Stingray anything like the Champion stingrays? I really like my champion stingray, but I am not sure how the star will compare. less stable.. more stable.. ?

-Scott Lewis

p.s. This questions is directed at anyone that happens to know the answer.




My observation is that the Star Stingray is less stable than the Champion Version.

Dave,

I have been comparing the DX Wraith I got last week at EIEIO to the Star Wraith I purchased - the DX Wraith looks quite a bit more "domey" that the Star Wraith. Is this a consistent difference between the two plastics, and how does it affect the flight (I haven't had a chance to throw them yet...).

Thnx,

Rizbee

Dave,

I have been comparing the DX Wraith I got last week at EIEIO to the Star Wraith I purchased - the DX Wraith looks quite a bit more "domey" that the Star Wraith. Is this a consistent difference between the two plastics, and how does it affect the flight (I haven't had a chance to throw them yet...).

Thnx,

Rizbee



The DX Wraiths are a little more domey than the Star and have quite a bit of glide. The DX Wraith I got at EIEIO was not what I had been playing with or expecting. It was quite a bit less stable than it should have been. I don't know if it was a single aberation, or if it was a bad molding day. It made a good roller, but a bad flyer. Usually the DX Wraiths are at least as stable as the Star, with a little more glide.

Dave or anyone else that knows,

How many of those Pro Gold Starfire-L 2005 Mid-Nationals discs were run?

The trophy ones? :confused: If not which ones were they?

my dx wraiths are maybe a hair more [over]stable when new than my stars, and definately more stable than my cfr.

My DX wraith is more overstable new then my pro, star and cfr wraiths. Can wait to beat it in for some HUGE S shots. Great job on this disc Dave.

Sorry if this has already been asked but when can we expect the Star Starfire X ? :)

Dave, how many 1st Run Star Stamp TeeRex's are there ?

Dave or anyone else that knows,

How many of those Pro Gold Starfire-L 2005 Mid-Nationals discs were run?



No clue. Sorry.

My DX wraith is more overstable new then my pro, star and cfr wraiths. Can wait to beat it in for some HUGE S shots. Great job on this disc Dave.

Sorry if this has already been asked but when can we expect the Star Starfire X ? :)



Running now. Should be released in a couple of weeks.

Dave, how many 1st Run Star Stamp TeeRex's are there ?



There should have been 2000 on the East Coast, and 2000 here on the West Coast.

--Drift deleted-- (http://www.local101dg.com/images/HudsonMills/monster/Mosterhole2_putt.jpg)

dave, could i get your thoughts and comparisons for dx, pro, and champion rhynos. i just got a pro and really like it. also, will it be made in star?

dave, could i get your thoughts and comparisons for dx, pro, and champion rhynos. i just got a pro and really like it. also, will it be made in star?



I think the DX starts out more stable than Champion or Pro. After that, it is mainly a preference thing. People I see use them mostly use Champion or Pro. I mainly see competition players. I don't see many DX unless they are throwing 150 class, then I see a lot. The Pros are used mainly for putting. The Champions are used for putts, approaches, and short drives. We will do Star when we have time. Not sure when it will be.

Hopefully after the star gremlins! :)

-Scott Lewis

Is there any possiblility of Star hammers or pro hammers ever being run?

Dave,
I've seen a lot of pink, yellow, and orange Coupe's over the years. How rare are the white Coupe's?
Thx

Dave, what's the timeframe for the DX TeeRexs? Thanks.

so Dave what new discs can we ecspect in the stores in April?
and what's in the bag?

Luda

Is there any possiblility of Star hammers or pro hammers ever being run?



yes. If we ran them, we would probably start with the original. They would go into the CFR program for tournaments.

Dave,
I've seen a lot of pink, yellow, and orange Coupe's over the years. How rare are the white Coupe's?
Thx



All of the Coupes are rare. Orange was the most prevalent, followed by yellow, I believe. White was the rarest by quite a bit.

Dave, what's the timeframe for the DX TeeRexs? Thanks.



We ran some, ran into some trouble and stopped. We changed to Star TeeRexes and have not been able to get back to them. It will probably still be a couple of months before we can get back to them unfortunately.

so Dave what new discs can we ecspect in the stores in April?
and what's in the bag?

Luda



Star Firebird and, DX Goblin released this Friday. Star Starfire, @ April 10. DX Coyote later in April.

My bag has a mix of test discs and new discs and hasn't settled down yet. I have been throwing DX Wraiths,TeeRexes, Goblins, Aviar P&A. Champion Beast, RR, Coyote. Star Starfire, TL, and TeeBird.

Sweet line up Dave. Keep'em coming!!!

Can't wait for the Star Starfires!! :D

PT Woods
# 20431

Star Teerex is sweet and to me it seems exactly as described. Wraith speed and distance with more stability and predictability.

Great work

149g DX Wraith is already (after a week or so of testing) nudging 154g gummy Champion Orc out of the bag. Will a 150g DX TeeRex do the same to my 150g gummy Champion Teebird? (I would be SHOCKED if it did.):eek:

BTW - after my early skepticism upon feeling the new DX plastic ("Is this Dragon plastic?!" was my initial impression), I have found that I quite like its grippiness & softer feel. Kudos!

hey dave,
another question about the goblin. can you throw them like beat rocs out-of-the-box? do they go as far?and finally how do they differ from coyotes? if you can't tell i'm very interested to try them out.

thanks again,
whit

hey dave,
another question about the goblin. can you throw them like beat rocs out-of-the-box? do they go as far?and finally how do they differ from coyotes? if you can't tell i'm very interested to try them out.

thanks again,
whit



They fly similar to a Coyote, but are not quite as long. They may be as long as a slightly beat Roc, but I haven't tested that yet. The flight characterist is closest to an Aviar, but a little longer. A cross between an Aviar and a Coyote wouldn't be far off.

Dave,

Why do some Star Line molds have 100% gloss appearence and some have dull circles spots around the disc? I seen some Aviars with 100% gloss and some Tee-Rex/Tee-Birds with dull circle spots. Just wondering. Thanks in advance Dave!

Josh

Kudos on the TR...

Friggin sweet disc... I ordered 3 from Mark at DGV, and meanwile I was reading the teerex thread on how they are really flippy, and don't hold a line.

That's total BS, this disc is FINALLY (and no disrespect meant) the disc that is "the fast teebird" like so many have tried to be for a year or two now...

I love it, when I really crank on it, I can get it to go 500' in a straight line, no huge bend to the right (RHBH) and then fade to the left.

Good job! :D

Star Firebird and, DX Goblin released this Friday. Star Starfire, @ April 10. DX Coyote later in April.

My bag has a mix of test discs and new discs and hasn't settled down yet. I have been throwing DX Wraiths,TeeRexes, Goblins, Aviar P&A. Champion Beast, RR, Coyote. Star Starfire, TL, and TeeBird.



that's great news to hear Star Starfires will be out in just in two weeks! how does your Star Starfire compare to the Champion Starfire Dave?

it's a bit disappointing to hear Star Coyotes are no longer on the list... what influenced the decision to make Coyotes in DX first? (i thought you had wanted Star Coyotes for your bag and that they were going to be done in March) :confused:

How will the Star Starfire differ from the Star SL ?

I would guess the Stars will differ based on the normal difference between the two. The regular Starfire is definitely more high speed stable and is better into a wind. The SL is less stable and probably has more potential D. sound right?

http://innovadiscs.com/discs/ratings/speed-10a.gif

http://innovadiscs.com/discs/ratings/starfire_ch.gif
Starfire

http://innovadiscs.com/discs/ratings/starfire.gif
SL (aka: Pro Starfire)

Dave,

Why do some Star Line molds have 100% gloss appearence and some have dull circles spots around the disc? I seen some Aviars with 100% gloss and some Tee-Rex/Tee-Birds with dull circle spots. Just wondering. Thanks in advance Dave!

Josh



It is the same material, but they way the material interacts with the particular mold leaves a cloudy appearance on some discs, and not on others. I don't know why. The TeeRex is probably the worst for cloudiness.

Star Firebird and, DX Goblin released this Friday. Star Starfire, @ April 10. DX Coyote later in April.

My bag has a mix of test discs and new discs and hasn't settled down yet. I have been throwing DX Wraiths,TeeRexes, Goblins, Aviar P&A. Champion Beast, RR, Coyote. Star Starfire, TL, and TeeBird.



that's great news to hear Star Starfires will be out in just in two weeks! how does your Star Starfire compare to the Champion Starfire Dave?

it's a bit disappointing to hear Star Coyotes are no longer on the list... what influenced the decision to make Coyotes in DX first? (i thought you had wanted Star Coyotes for your bag and that they were going to be done in March) :confused:



I don't see any difference between my Star and Champion Starfires, as far as flight is concerned. We wanted to do DX Coyotes a long time ago, but didn't have the right plastic. Now we do. The new DX should allow the Coyote to age gracefully like the Roc does. I do want to do Star Coyotes, but the schedule has been very tight for the last month or so. It should loosen up in a month or so.

Thanks for the info Dave!

Josh

How will the Star Starfire differ from the Star SL ?



A good analogy would be the same difference between a TeeBird and TL.

I would assume the Star Starfire is the X mold = more stable

and of course the Star Starfire-L is a long driver = less stable

How will the Star Starfire differ from the Star SL ?



A good analogy would be the same difference between a TeeBird and TL.



.......or a Leopard and a Leopard L? :D

I have to echo that the TeeRex is a great design. I don't know what type of "King Kong Arm" people are claiming to have to flip it over "like a valk" but I can say that this disc is the stable headwind driver I"ve been looking for.
Huge D, conrolled hyzers and finally a distance driver that's not as finicky as the orc, that I can release flat.

thanks and watch out for my disc on the next pad, fellas

I don't know what type of "King Kong Arm" people are claiming to have to flip it over "like a valk"



Most likely "King Kong Arms" with lousy technique.

They fly similar to a Coyote, but are not quite as long. They may be as long as a slightly beat Roc, but I haven't tested that yet. The flight characterist is closest to an Aviar, but a little longer. A cross between an Aviar and a Coyote wouldn't be far off.



I have not seen a goblin yet so I have a couple questions. Are they tall? An aviar is tall. A coyote is kind-a-tall. A cobra is not tall.

Will it glide like a new cobra classic?

What I'm looking for is a replacement for my CCs. I throw the CCs between 220 and 250' (a bit of a noodle arm). I don't like the grip on an aviar or an aero. A roc tends to be to overstable for my taste. I try to cover that distance with my coyote, but I tend to edge up my coyote and it never recovers from the long slow right hand turn (RHBH). When I throw a new CC, it goes flat and stays flat till the very end. When you throw that new CC into a tree, it becomes a longer coyote :(

Any ideas.

They fly similar to a Coyote, but are not quite as long. They may be as long as a slightly beat Roc, but I haven't tested that yet. The flight characterist is closest to an Aviar, but a little longer. A cross between an Aviar and a Coyote wouldn't be far off.



I have not seen a goblin yet so I have a couple questions. Are they tall? An aviar is tall. A coyote is kind-a-tall. A cobra is not tall.

Will it glide like a new cobra classic?

What I'm looking for is a replacement for my CCs. I throw the CCs between 220 and 250' (a bit of a noodle arm). I don't like the grip on an aviar or an aero. A roc tends to be to overstable for my taste. I try to cover that distance with my coyote, but I tend to edge up my coyote and it never recovers from the long slow right hand turn (RHBH). When I throw a new CC, it goes flat and stays flat till the very end. When you throw that new CC into a tree, it becomes a longer coyote :(

Any ideas.



I don't think the Goblin is for you. It is tallish and has a grip like an Aero. You might try a Shark or Millennium MS.

How will the Star Starfire differ from the Star SL ?



A good analogy would be the same difference between a TeeBird and TL.



Thanks !!!!! Can't wait !!!! :D

I would just like to comment on the whole dull and slick star plastic thing. I think the dull stuff is way better than the slick stuff. I would make them all dull if it were up to me and were possible. Sure maybe it doesnt look as nice but who cares. I throw my discs.

Dave,
I'm really liking the Teebird again and I want to try a star one out. What I'm looking for is a point-and-shoot slower driver that will hold the angle I release at. My friend tells me that the TB (not the TL) is more overstable in star than the champ... it takes me alittle bit to break in a champ where Daddy likes it.
Would you suggest a TL since I'm guessing it will be more point-and-shoot out-of-the-box or should I "one disc challenge" through my technical, wooded short course with the TB? Thanks.

Dave,
I'm really liking the Teebird again and I want to try a star one out. What I'm looking for is a point-and-shoot slower driver that will hold the angle I release at. My friend tells me that the TB (not the TL) is more overstable in star than the champ... it takes me alittle bit to break in a champ where Daddy likes it.
Would you suggest a TL since I'm guessing it will be more point-and-shoot out-of-the-box or should I "one disc challenge" through my technical, wooded short course with the TB? Thanks.



I would choose the Leopard or Coyote for a short wooded course myself. But of the two you named, I would definitely take the TL in the woods over the Tee.

Thanks Dave...I couldn't wait and ordered both a TB And TL from David in SC. That guy has really got me out of some pickles and is super helpful.
Plus, everytime I call, I get to talk to Angela...I love those southern girl's accents, don't you? ;)

I'll drop a progress report next week.

Try a Dragon.

Try a Dragon.



Angela's a dragon?!?

No I meant, if you are looking for a stable disc, for your snap and power I would suggest a Dragon. Plus if you come up short on a water hole it floats! It's a great disc for beginners :D

BTW...It's La Verdad, not El Verdad, and that's la verdad.

No I meant, if you are looking for a stable disc, for your snap and power I would suggest a Dragon. Plus if you come up short on a water hole it floats! It's a great disc for beginners :D

BTW...It's La Verdad, not El Verdad, and that's la verdad.



A dragon is a sweet disc! 150 class is teh only way to go!

I know "the truth" en espanol is "la verdad" being a masculine adjective with a feminine conjuction, but someone beat me to the punch.
Don't worry, now that we can freely change our screen names, I wont be el verdad for long. Has anyone used donkeypunch? :eek:

Check out the NWA forum. They've got a team donkey.

Check out the NWA forum. They've got a team donkey.




I loved those guys! too bad about Easy E :( Ice cube should get back to hardcore movies...otherwise he'll end up on some tulsa CSI like Ice T! :D:D

Is there any possiblility of Star hammers or pro hammers ever being run?



yes. If we ran them, we would probably start with the original. They would go into the CFR program for tournaments.



Dave
By 'Original' do you mean these Aviar-XD like very stiff ones?
http://geocities.com/lakefrontdgc/hammer.JPG

Dave or anyone else that knows,

How many of those Pro Gold Starfire-L 2005 Mid-Nationals discs were run?



No clue. Sorry.



I just won a $8.50 auction on eBay for one of these Mid-Nationals Innova Pro Gold Starfire Fundraiser discs. What can I expect when I receive this 173g disc? Is it stable like a Champion Starfire? Or a little flippy, like regular Pro Starfires? (but with less durability) Or is it the best of both worlds, with the increased distance of a Pro Starfire but with a little extra durability like that a Champion Starfire?

Dave,
What is coming up next in the Star plastic?

I believe that up next is the star firebird, then star-starfire (x mold)

that's all I know...

hmmm, starfire(bird) and (star) starfire :D

I believe that up next is the star firebird, then star-starfire (x mold)

that's all I know...

hmmm, starfire(bird) and (star) starfire :D



the star firebird is currently available!! :D

Is it stable like a Champion Starfire? Or a little flippy, like regular Pro Starfires?



It's more like a Pro Starfire but it seems to fly farther than the regular run Pro Starfires I've bought. For me it flies straight but I started using mine only in the winter. That gold color is hard to find in the summer and I've almost lost mine a few times. It looks like a dirt spot on the ground and it's easy to overlook. I wouldn't want to throw it on a course like Jordan for example, Lehigh maybe.

I hate to ask but I've read different things from different places...are the Pegasus discontinued??? I see them everywhere now but and I really don't want to get attached to a disc that I can only get in limited quantities ( kind of like the Hammers, Ontario Rocs, KC gazelles and Ravens).

Is there any possiblility of Star hammers or pro hammers ever being run?



yes. If we ran them, we would probably start with the original. They would go into the CFR program for tournaments.



Dave
By 'Original' do you mean these Aviar-XD like very stiff ones?
http://geocities.com/lakefrontdgc/hammer.JPG



Those blue are the originals, but not the right ones. The right ones are red. I believe it was the run following blue.

I just won a $8.50 auction on eBay for one of these Mid-Nationals Innova Pro Gold Starfire Fundraiser discs. What can I expect when I receive this 173g disc? Is it stable like a Champion Starfire? Or a little flippy, like regular Pro Starfires? (but with less durability) Or is it the best of both worlds, with the increased distance of a Pro Starfire but with a little extra durability like that a Champion Starfire?



I don't remember these, but if they are Pro, they are the L mold in Pro plastic. It's possible that it was Star type, but I don't think so. The Star SL is the disc you describe as the best of both worlds.

Dave,
What is coming up next in the Star plastic?



Star Starfire (x) is up next, April 10.

I hate to ask but I've read different things from different places...are the Pegasus discontinued??? I see them everywhere now but and I really don't want to get attached to a disc that I can only get in limited quantities ( kind of like the Hammers, Ontario Rocs, KC gazelles and Ravens).



The Pegasus has been discontinued. It was most like a Banshee.

Dave
By 'Original' do you mean these Aviar-XD like very stiff ones?
http://geocities.com/lakefrontdgc/hammer.JPG



Those blue are the originals, but not the right ones. The right ones are red. I believe it was the run following blue.



So these
http://geocities.com/lakefrontdgc/rhammer
(why do I have trouble getting images up?)
Look Here (http://geocities.com/lakefrontdgc/rhammer)
Was there a re tooling between runs? The stiff slick blue seems more domey (light purple too). The red marginally flatter and softer. Or was the plastic change responsible for the dome effect?
And Dave is there an archive including pictures of the company hot stamps and mold variations , dates etc? I know mf100forever (Kjell) in Sweden has a good listing of discs produced but not with pictures.
Thanks