Dave, I recently bought some X-Out discs and was curious about the specifications used to determine what discs get stamped x-out? Of the ones I recieved some have small bubbles in the plastic, some have black flecks in them, and some just seem to not have a uniform color but look to be perfect otherwise. Also, for future reference would these be legal for play or are they just for practice and casual golf?

Thanks in advance

DAve, have you guys ever thought about making a mid-range disc with a rim as wide as say a Beast or Orc???? I think alot of people would like this idea. I know a lot of people who dont throw rocs because the rim is not wide enough. Just thought it would be a great idea.



Try the Demon! I know it's not innova but it does have a super wide rim for a midrange. It takes a long time for them to break in though.

chase, I don't think there is any pattern to it, but the pearly stuff is a little lighter mix and allows for lower weights down to the gummy stuff, which is the lightest. Some of the heaviest, are the most opaque, due to a weighting agent. The latest discs, Monsters, Beasts, and Orcs, don't need any weighting agent, they need the pearly lighter stuff.

Aaron, the x outs are mostly cosmetic. If we think they won't fly properly, we scrap them. Usually, color is not a reason for an x out, but larger bubbles and specks or bad hotstamps are.

DAve, have you guys ever thought about making a mid-range disc with a rim as wide as say a Beast or Orc???? I think alot of people would like this idea. I know a lot of people who dont throw rocs because the rim is not wide enough. Just thought it would be a great idea.



Try the Demon! I know it's not innova but it does have a super wide rim for a midrange. It takes a long time for them to break in though.



Good thread jack and product placement dumb [*****].Why would anyone on here advise throwing a demon when Innova makes a Whippet?

sandalbagger, mid range discs are a tough market. A mid range disc with a rim as wide as a Beast would have no weight range in candy, and a very limited range in Pro. A rim that wide would seem to make it a fairway driver like a Ram or Python. It's doable, but I am not sure how popular it might be.

Forgive me if this has been asked or if there is such a disc already, but something wide rimmed, but with the flight characteristics of a roc would be great. I love DX rocs, can't throw a round without them any more

i found this mistamp valkyrie on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20851&item=7134555 869&rd=1
it has a dx putt&approach aviar stamp on it. theres also one with a dx roc stamp and a dx cobra stamp as well.any idea why these mistamps are made? is it so you guys can make people think you just threw an aviar a mile? :D

Okay thanks Dave.I think Im confused though.

Paul, those sound like somebody from the shop putting a hotstamp on a disc when they buy one for personal use. I have done it myself a couple of times. However, it's not supposed to end up on ebay.

sounds cool. i would have to stamp most of my discs with the big bird roc stamp, and the champion discs stamp :D;)

If i threw innova i would want the Little star from the Old CE stamp in the middle of all my discs and that would be it. That or the Sweet Huge Star Stamp :D

I have seen a CE FX with and Aviar Stamp on it. :D

the coolest mistamps i've seen thus far are CE firebirds with DX firebirds stamps. could we maybe see some champion discs get stamped with their dx stamps dave? i think they would sell REALLY well.

hey, as for wider midranges, have youtried the Bulldog, it's a bit thicker... might be ther grip you like???

I stopped bidding on that CE with the DX stamp somewhere after 70.00$....It was sick.

spider flys like a roc for me and has a wider, more comfey rim imho

The spider is a fantastic disc! Every angle is accessable with it. try one for approach shots like this: standard hyzer sit downs and the magical turnover approach. on even a high, steep angle turnover at low speeds, the spider ALWAYS finishes parallel to the ground with the anchor out. once i figured that out, I franchised it in my bag! never had another disc like it...plus the extra thick rim is comfortable even for XLT players like myself...and a smaller diameter means smaller pokes! :D

if you would like a disc that you can approach with that has a wide rim like a beast or an orc i would recommend a KC Pro Banshee. It will be overstable but it is the most predictable disc ever made. Great for Hyser Bombs, Skip shots and in any wind.

Hey dave, Im not even going to ask if you,ve ever produced a Champion Monster-L as Im sure people would talk about it but I did just pick up a 175 Monster that has a really different look to the underside ,this is called the "wing" of the disc I guess.The disc is obviosly a monster looking at it from the top,it is flat with the thicker wide rim but the Wing is as straight asross as a sidewinder.Could this just be an abnormal defect or possibly from cooling?I put it next to another monster and its definatly somthing.
I cant wait to throw it,a less stable Monster, Hmmm...

Dave, Have you thought about making a disc that is more stable than the orc but a little less stable than the monster? Or is that what the Starfire is supposed to be?

William, yes the Champion Starfire is that disc. The second generation Champion Starfires are about as stable as TeeBirds, but faster. The first generation wasn't quite there so we tweaked it successfully. We also have a new Pro Starfire that is more stable than an Orc in the true sense of the term. That is: straighter from start to finish. It has about the same high speed turn as a Champ Orc, but less low speed overstability.

So when's the Pro Starfire going to be on the East Coast? Is it going to be a regular production disc? Sounds like a winner of a disc, as always.

discndat, the Pro Starfire should be on the East Coast in a week. It is slated to be a regular production disc.

Dave, Just saw the product release stuff for Feb. Dx Orc stamp looks good. Champ Gators will make alot of people happy.

Keep up the good work. :D

Hi Dave,

What is your opinion on the elimination of the two meter rule?

Also, I believe you have said some people at Innova Champion Discs say "In-NO-va" (as in Inside a Nova) and some say "In-NUH-va" (as in innovation). Do you have a preference?

Dave,

Although I throw large diameter discs such as the Roc and its clones, I really prefer the grip, feel, and lines of flight of smaller diameter discs. I think this is a real area in need of improvement as far as discs currently available on the market go. I like the Champion Panther a lot, but I would definetely like it a bit more stable/overstable. Maybe a bigger bead or a more concave bottow wingtip would do the trick. None of the other small diameter mids compare in terms of distance/carry of the larger discs in my opinion.

I remember you mentioning some of the same preferences and concerns some time back on the board concerning small diameter mids and I was wondering if this is still an idea in the works.

I have never liked the 2 meter rule. Too flukey, whether a disc sticks or not from the same shot. I was disappointed that the board over ruled the rules committee. I pronounce it INN o va, with the stress on the first syllable, but others in the company pronounce it- in NO va.

discspeed, yes, I am still working on it. If I am lucky, I will have it soon. If not, I will keep trying.

Dave:

Have you guys thought about doing the INNColor Printing on the CE Mini's? I think that would be pretty cool. Just a thought.

JT

discspeed, yes, I am still working on it. If I am lucky, I will have it soon. If not, I will keep trying.



This will be a true step forward. I think that small diameter discs fly truer and that sooner or later the bigger discs will become extinct altogether. By the way, I just got ahold of a new clear Orc, 174g. Feels nice and grippy like the Sidewinders. I love this new plastic, great work Dave!

I have never liked the 2 meter rule. Too flukey, whether a disc sticks or not from the same shot. I was disappointed that the board over ruled the rules committee.



My thoughts exactly Dave, glad to hear someone with your experience and expertise also sees it the same way. Of course, the expertise and experience of the Rules Committee is nothing to sneeze at, though apparently the Board felt it knew better than the RC what was best... :confused:


I pronounce it INN o va, with the stress on the first syllable, but others in the company pronounce it- in NO va



So then the founder of the company prefers Innova as in innovation? Did you come up with the name? It seems quite apt.

And, as a self-serving segway, let me add I really like discspeed's requests regarding midranges and am glad you are looking at what he is asking for. Do you expect the Champion Panther will be in production for the forseeable future? If so, that and a more stable version thereof might be the midranges for me...

Dave, any plans for a Champion or DX Bulldog?

Dx Bulldog :confused:, do you mean Pro?

discchucker, we are doing INNColor minis now. :)

robj, I think Harlold came up with the INNOVA name. We liked it for the double meaning of innovation and in nova. The Champion Panther is a keeper.

Paul, both the Bulldog and Hydra can only be done in DX. The other plastics would be too heavy.

Although I throw large diameter discs such as the Roc and its clones, I really prefer the grip, feel, and lines of flight of smaller diameter discs.

discspeed is right, dave. Alot of us feel that innova is falling behind in the midrange dept.
Any plans to create this gem?...I mean in mass production that everyone can get their hands on?

discchucker, we are doing INNColor minis now. :)



Hey Dave i was just curious, if it was even practical, about how much would a custom run of 100 INNcolor Minis be? I am interested in making our bag tags as minis this year. Kind of a yearly throphy thing. Every year you get a bag tag and at the end of the year you get to keep it and then get a new design next year. Whatta ya think??

troof, it will be mass production if I am successful.

Justin, if you are interested, contact sam.ferrans@innovadiscs.com

Dave, I have a couple 8x rocs that have a picture of Climo
on the disc. How many of these were made ?

Sorry Scott, I have no idea. I don't even remember the Rocs you are talking about. Sounds like a custom run, but I don't know.

Dave, why in your opinion does a thumbtrak contribute to a Rhyno being so doggone dependable flightwise? It's a remarkable disc...one that I would not choose to be without. I'm impressed at what all can be done with them...they really hold a nice line, whether backhand or sidearm...nice into the wind, too.

Do the other thumbtrak discs behave similarily? I've not thrown them...

Dave,

I'm putting a couple questions on this post Your opinion (and those of others) would be most appreciated.

First. I threw one of my best rounds Saturday at my "home" course. One of the changes I made that day was throwing an Archangel (DX) instead of my Champion Orc. The AA went as far or farther than my Orc on at least five different holes. The AA can (for me) be a big Anhyzer, so I was being very careful to throw it flat. I normally throw the Orc with some Anhyzer to produce an S shot. Also, most of those throws were made on some type of downhill (slight to moderate) fairway.

I am pretty much a noodle arm....never having thrown a disc (on my practice soccer field) more than 340'. Here is my question. Is the AA a better distance disc for some? Is the AA a better downhill (or down wind) disc? Or was I just being more efficient (having a good day)?

Second. I have been throwing some other discs (all Innova) lately, and I am really starting to appreciate the numbers (speed, glide, turn, fade). Does anyone have a feel for what happens to the numbers as a disc gets old or "broken in"? Not just the fade, but all four numbers.

Thank you for being patient with this long note.

circle 2, the Thumtrac discs all work the same way. They provide a grip for the thum, and at higher air speeds, they counteract the natural tendency, of a disc to turn over, with an aerodynamic stabilizer. The faster the disc flies, the more the disc wants to turn, but the larger the stabilizer effect. The spoiler provides a downward vector on the rear of the disc which is translated 90 degrees into the spin, which means it acts downward on the left side, counteracting the natural turnover.

Rod, the Orc is a better disc for higher speed throwers. The Archangel is better for lower speed throwers. The Archangel has more turn and glide, which makes it a natural downwind distance and roller disc. As a disc gets worn it tends to turn over more at high speeds. The other numbers don't change much. The low speed fade looks as if it becomes less, but I think this is an artifact of the high speed turn, bringing the nose down, which in turn decreases the fade. Bending the nose of the disc will produce the "wear effect" more rapidly. Bent noses can be restored.

Hello where have you been

The Sidewinder, sidewinder, sidewinder........

Dave,
Thanks. I understand your comments about the fade being affected by the turn. (I throw a lot of anhyzer shots.)

If my (low) power rating means I find the AA a longer disc than the Orc, then would the Sidewinder (Sharky's understated hint) be a longer disc still?

Thanks again.

Sharky.
My plates and I have been out thowin' in the snow, in the cold, and (now) in the mud. Actually, this is my first winter out with my discs and I had a blast....even on the day where the wind chill was 8.

Good thing those plates are inside my arm....or they would get COOOLLLLDDDD.

...the Thumtrac discs all work the same way. They provide a grip for the thumb, and at higher air speeds, they counteract the natural tendency, of a disc to turn over, with an aerodynamic stabilizer. The faster the disc flies, the more the disc wants to turn, but the larger the stabilizer effect. The spoiler provides a downward vector on the rear of the disc which is translated 90 degrees into the spin, which means it acts downward on the left side, counteracting the natural turnover.



Is there a reason for not having a thumbtrac on a driver? That's where I fancy the majority of high speed throws are generated. :confused:

...I used to putt with a Piranha, but it certainly wasn't to counterbalance high speed...I can double-helix an Aero from inside 20 feet, 4COL. :o

AD3P, the Sidewinder is a faster disc and would be longer upwind and crosss, but not downwind. It would come down to which disc got the better wind ride.

Steve, the reasons are two: Drivers are thrown off the fingers and base of the thumb, which means the thumtrac grip is not needed, and may actually be in the way, and secondly, the spoiler effect is at the cost of additional drag. We have tested a mid range which was pretty good, but the grip thing killed it.

AD3P, I should have also said that the Sidewinder would be a much better disc for you than the Orc. The Orc takes a lot of power to turn. The Sidewinder has a slow predictable turn. The Archangel has the most turn and glide but would be harder to predict for higher speed throwers.

Thanks. I really do appreciate the advice.

Dave the special blend CE ROCS are a long awaited blessing. Thank you.

Question goes like this. CE ROCS for the USDGC, Super ROCS for the Worlds.

Have you given any thought to running a Super special blend ROC for other fundrasing oppurtunities? My original SE ROC is in the bag as is an Ontario for those certain shots. A ROC with Ontario flight characterisitics in a more durable plastic would make more then just myself happy.

Anyway thanks for all you do.

Dave,
are there more than two different Python-molds made? What are the difference between them?

Rick, that was an idea that came up, but we decided against it at the time. I thought it was a good idea, but no one else did. They thought it would be confusing to the consumer.

mf100, I don't recall right now, but it is possible. The difference would be on the bevel. The earlier version would have more of a curve inward.

dave have you guys ever thought about going back to one or two colors and only one stamp for the ce rocs? seems like it would solve alot of the distribution problems , especially with just one color. seems very confusing to have so many different choices. maybe run a different color or stamp for at the event or partners or something....

I just want to say THANKS! I love the choices AND the pretty colors. :D And this year I actually scored some in my preferred weight range!

Team ROC
Throw More ROCs :D

DrEvil, it would be easier to just have just one or two offerings of USDGC Rocs, but I don't think it would be as appealing. We probably would have done okay this year if we hadn't had the crash. We are upgrading the simultaneous order capacity for next year to avoid a repeat, hopefully.

Dave the special blend CE ROCS are a long awaited blessing. Thank you.

Question goes like this. CE ROCS for the USDGC, Super ROCS for the Worlds.

Have you given any thought to running a Super special blend ROC for other fundrasing oppurtunities? My original SE ROC is in the bag as is an Ontario for those certain shots. A ROC with Ontario flight characterisitics in a more durable plastic would make more then just myself happy.

Anyway thanks for all you do.



I thought the special blend was this onatrio roc with more durable plastic... isn't that what you told me... :confused:

Are all of the new CFR glow discs going to have the INNcolor stamp on them? Also, The catalog says that beast are available in the regular glow plastic, but I can't get them.

Hey Dave, Are the glo Orcs going to be a run regulaur? Also, what kind of blend was used on the 20th Aniv. Aviars? While holding the Aviar and a new Red Special Blend they seemed very similar. And... do you know a relative number on 1st run Leopards? How rare are the blueberry Leopards? Thanks agian for your time.

Jon, the INNcolor is only available for CFR, but CFR discs can be hotstamped too, I believe. The glow DX Beasts have not been run yet, but are in the schedule. Sorry.

Chase, glo Orcs will be a semi regular thing. The 20th Aniv Aviars were either the same as the special blend Rocs or had one more anti-bounce ingredient added. I don't recall if I added the anti-bounce stuff. I don't have an idea on the number of first run candy Leopards, but the blueberry were relatively rare.

Dave, I think you misunderstood my question about the glow orcs. Not if INNcolor is always on the CFRs, but if there will be any champ glow orcs that have regular hotstamps, instead of the INNcolor

Dave i dont understand how much of a 'glow' the INNcolor Glow Orcs can have with that huge color stamp on there. Is it just the white parts that glow? and if so, how effective are they??

I am very interested in getting some of these, but i just dont understand how practical for glow golf they really are. Ya know?

glow discs aren't really that practical for glo golf anyway. try thill bobber llights and a piece of clear packing tape!!!

^
|
|
Very true...glow discs are just kind of cool to have...the dx Roc and Aviar versions are fun to play catch with in the dark, but you'd never want to throw them in the schule and try to find one. The bobbers work great on most Z/Champ discs when taped to the bottom and all discs when taped to the top.

I think the glow candy discs are unique because the plastic seems to fly and age VERY well but not give them super-added stability (except for the Banshees though, those were nuts!)

When might we see the new ones rolling in (in non-InnColor fashion) like the Orc, Starfire, Firebird, etc. ???

The glow discs aren't practical for night golf????
ARE YOU SERIOUS??

I Love glow golf!!!

I use Glow Aviars, Eagles and Leopards. And a Candy Glow EL.
The Candy EL Glows much better than the regular glows, but i can still find my regular glows easily.(unless they are under a pile of leaves; but would you find a regular disc under them in the daylight anyway??)

Out of my three local courses I con only play glow golf on one of 'em. Thats in the middle of nowhere in Michigan. (Vienna Park in Temperance, MI) Maybe you two are playing on courses that have too much city lighting??

Or maybe you are not using the right stuff??
Black Lights are okay, but you really need a 1 million candlepower light or even a more powerful one. Those really light the discs up! And if you do manage to lose one, the light really comes in handy finding them nder the leaves.


I love glow golf and i am currently trying to arrange a couple more glow events in my area for 2005. I think there should be a couple more events at least. I think there is already a C-Tier in place for OCTOBER a Vienna Park. (M2 Discs' 2nd Annual Bark at the Moon)

Keep the glow discs coming Dave!

Thank you Dave.


Glo golfs a blast. I have a fly by night glo that is alot like a ROC only smaller diamater, I think, And has a edge cut out on the inner rim for a glo necklace. If they were PDGA legal, Id probaly throw one all the time. Id go against anyone with a one disc fly by night glo match.

Say Dave, can you purchase the labled bags that Innova discs are shipped in?

Champion glow is being reserved for CFR, but can be hotstamped as well as INNcolored.

Justin, it depends on the art. If the coverage is solid, then the top probably won't glow much, but the sides and bottom will. If the art is like stained glass effect, then the disc will glow through.

I have the Texas 10 'EYES' glow inncolor disc and let me tell you when that thing is glowing through the eyes it is so cool it will give you chills. I can't imagine throwing one of my inncolor discs though. They aren't frisbees they are art...

I believe we have all those models already. We plan to keep a stock of all those plus TLs and Valks.

chase, I don't know what the policy is on that one.

Dave,

I just recieved my first of two orders of DX Orcs, and am I crazy or are these very similar to the new Pro Line plasic. I have a few other DX discs and they feel different and the plastic seems harder then these Orcs. These Orcs feel almost sticky. Has the DX formula changed, and if so, does it still wear as good as the "normal" DX plastic?

Thanks

Dave
Two questions for you:

1. Most everyone says Throw ROCS . But for some reason they do not seem comfortable to me(Maybe hand size) but Cobras(esp pro Line) are very comfortable. Would this be a bad trade off? Would a need to add another disc to my game to make up for this?

2. In your opinion what is the best roller disc Innova Makes.

Thanks for your time and for everything you have done for this great sport,

Dude, you want a roc-like disc that feels like a cobra... get a sentinel (sorry if that's hijacking an Innova post, but Millenium is pretty much innova right?) :D

parkntwoput, the DX formula was different with the DX Orcs, but we were having such a hard time running it, we went back to the regular formula. It wasn't anything like the Pro plastic, but you might have gotten a misstamp. We went to that new DX formula to try to add durability to the long range drivers in DX.

Hey Dave,
Isn't it 4am there right now?

Are you at the factory already?

-tB

Travis, the Pro Cobra is a fair substitute as would be the Pro Shark. I don't think you need to add anything, but the Pro Cobra will act like a slightly beat in Roc. In my opinion the best roller we make is the Sidewinder for long range, Leopard for medium, and Wolf for short to medium.

Jaymo, the Aurora would be Millennium's closest. The Sentinel is faster and more overstable to start.

Hi Todd, yes I get to work about 4 am every morining.

ugh!

You must have been quiet about it when we were sleeping in your parking lot.

Was wondering.....

Have you heard about these 'nightshift' orcs?
Was the creation of these discs sanctioned by you, or do you still discourage this type of thing?

Todd, it was not sanctioned by me, but it led to the "special blend" USDGC Rocs. I discourage what they did because it is confusing with Pro line discs.

Dave,
Thanks for the Champion Gators.

Might have missed it earlier in the thread, but was the release of the Pro Starfire announced only on the Innova site, and when will they be available in stores? And any reason the numbers are different in pro plastic then in the champion? Thanks.

My Pro Starfires are arriving today, bought from discgolfvalues.com

hey dave, sinc eso many people seem to like these "nighshift" orcs, is it possible there could be a special run of them? i could see a really cool nightshift stamp! and they could be offered as a kind of fundraiser disc for us lower level events. kind of like a cheap cfr....

p.s. i love the pro orcs! first pro disc that has really found a place in my bag....

I think a solution to the pro / vs opaque night shift orc plastic... is the pro only comes in white. Or white and another color... Or night shift only comes in Orange and red... I do not care what colors you chose I just prefer the opaque plastic.... thanks for allowing us to voice oppinions on here..You know what they say about opinions...

ce

djalizwan, I don't know where it was announced, but they are available for shipping now. The number are different because the Pro drivers are L versions. The L versions are not quite as high speed stable, but they make up for it in other ways. In Pro, the are more durable than the X versions, and they fly farther and straighter. The X version is candy.

Dr Evil, it's a good idea to make them available somehow, as long as it doesn't make confusion. A special run, segregated from the others, or used as you suggest, might be the answer.

As for the Night Shift Orcs, you could call them "Special Blend" Orcs and make them in Red and Blue Only and just put the DX Orc Graphic on them... That would be sweet...Kind of like the 2005 Champ Rocs.

I would pay $15 for Regualr Production and $20 if it was a fundraiser for Worlds or something.

Cheers,
Matt

Dave, in your opinion, which disc has more high speed turn the Orc or the Starfire??? ie which is more beast-like (ie. long S-shot) and which is more t-bird-like (ie. straight with strong fade at the end

thanks :D

As for the Night Shift Orcs, you could call them "Special Blend" Orcs and make them in Red and Blue Only and just put the DX Orc Graphic on them... That would be sweet...Kind of like the 2005 Champ Rocs.

I would pay $15 for Regualr Production and $20 if it was a fundraiser for Worlds or something.

Cheers,
Matt




No No No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nooooooooooooooo

Use the Ring stamp like on the New Gators, and whippets , that would be sweet and set them apart from all the other orcs, and then color and stamp wouldn't be an issue and would designate it as a special run :D

a run of the nightshift Orcs would be sweet. definately would sell like hotcakes :D

Jaymo, for Champion plastic, the 2nd run Starfire is most like a TeeBird. The first run was harder to assess as it either did a hyzer or turned and stayed. The Pro Starfire is more like an Orc with less fade. Neither Starfire has as much turn as a Beast.

a run of the nightshift Orcs would be sweet. definately would sell like hotcakes :D



They probably would out sell the Champion Orcs, I would switch out all mine in a heart beat

dave, just curious as to what the difference between "triple ring" and "doulbe ring" rocs is? i assume its the rings left from the mold on the bottom center of the disc, is that correct?

hey dave--are you planning on runinng more special blend rocs [plastic and mold] in the future [usdgc, cfr, or otherwise]? these are my favorite rocs ever. what about the roc-l in pro plastic? i have a few x-out new pro super rocs in white that feel like the special blend plastic. is this just mostly champion with a little pro mixed in? thanks again

I would also like some more SB Rocs in weights down to like 174g. A Viking in SB would be cool too!

I would also like some more SB Rocs in weights down to like 174g. A Viking in SB would be cool too!

A Viking in SB would be cool too!


i second that. heck while we're at it i'll request some SB beasts, firebirds and big beads :D

or just make the ch. line special blend

Hey Dave .
How about making every design in every possible plastic and configuration, and keep it in constant available stock in all weights? Drop the price by 90% and keep innovating.
If you would only get to work by 2:30 am instead of 4:00 am you might get something done huh????
What makes you think you deserve sleep anyway???
In your spare time how about teaching us all to throw?

dave
I kno wyou have answered this before but what is the current status on the proline valk's is? I am trying to be patient but just can't wait for such a great disc.

Hey Dave .
How about making every design in every possible plastic and configuration, and keep it in constant available stock in all weights? Drop the price by 90% and keep innovating.
If you would only get to work by 2:30 am instead of 4:00 am you might get something done huh????
What makes you think you deserve sleep anyway???
In your spare time how about teaching us all to throw?


wow, that was golden. it's good to see a little sarcasm every once in a while. and when you've been studying for 12 hours, it's even better to see an entire post full of it. :D
keep up the great work dave!

That was a treat to read. thanks (i rated you 5 stars as a reciprocal gesture) :D

crdiscgolfer, yes, that's what it is. To be clear: the "special blend" USDGC Roc are the Ontario Roc configuration (it says Rancho), with the regular Champion plastic and one additive, which gives it a little more grip.

OOps. already answered this it think.

Paul, yes: usually the more rings, the older the disc. Triple rings are most likely San Marino vintage.

Steven, we will most likely do the special blend for USDGC next year too. The Ontario configuration essentially is like a Roc L without being one. The Pro Roc plastic is different, but closer to candy now than it used to be. I believe, (without having the Rocs here to compare), that the Super Rocs are grippier than the Special Blend and considerable more overstable. If anyone has an opinion contrary to that, I would like to hear it. Feedback is good and appreciated.

vandal, I we are scheduled to start Mon or Tues.

Got my '05 Roc's and they look great. The flash removal on the glo's and the standard ones is really good, however...
What's up with the Special Blends? Out of the 40 that I received, about 60% of them are damaged to the point that I can't call my new discs, "mint." There are gouges and scrapes where, it seems that whoever was removing the flashing, slipped. I can't find any of these marks on my other '05 Roc's. Is it a problem with the plastic?

Only 1 out of 20 of my SB's have a slight ding on the edge. Very happy.

One of mine had a little extra flashing on it but brushed right off. I did get some Champ Sidewinders that all had a series of dings in them. Love the SB's though, great flight and awesome grip! Slid one down a walking path and not a scratch on it! The regular Champ Rocs were even more stable than I expected, very nice! Glad to hear SB's are in the plans for next year! :D

Dave, is there a reason that the new special blends couldnt be done in regulaur run? Its not like support for the USDGC would drop off if these werent included. Could these possibly be done as a CFR run? Maybe in INNCOLOR?

Dave, were there any soft Rhynos that didn't say soft on them? I came across a proline today that felt just as soft as my JK 4x Soft aviar-X

Chase these could have been general CFR, or regular. We may move it to regular channels eventually, but for now it makes sense to keep it where it is. If molding time loosens up, things could change.

Mr Zoonker, yes, actually I was unaware that any said "soft". They are supposed to be soft and grippy. It does vary somewhat though.

Thanks Dave.

DAVE-I just got an old big bead aviar, white with blue grid stamp. It seems that the nose on this is sharper than the KC aviar. It looks like a different mold. When did you change molds for the big bead aviar? Does one design have different flight characteristics? Why did you change the mold? Thank you

Rendroc, that was a driver Aviar before there were two different molds. Now, the grid stamped Aviar is small bead with the sharper nose. Same setup as the P & A. It is called the Classic. All Pro Aviars are the big bead driver version: KC, JK, and regular Pro. The pro mold was created for the higher driving speeds of Pros. Pro discs are more overstable than the regular Aviars.

Dave,
No question today. Just thanks. I just went thru the PDF catalog on the Innova web site and I really liked the layout of the Driver Flight Chart.

My opinion. When (if ?) courses get longer, more people will start tuning in on how long they throw "fairway drivers". I think this is a great start.

For those of us who belong to the "low power" category, it has already started :(

Dave,

With the revamped flight ratings on the Innova discs, the Orc and Eagle are both -1/+3. The difference being speed. Should we assume therefore that they will follow the same flight path, but that the Orc will produce more distance based on the speed rating of 10 vs. the Eagles 7? Though I remember reading here once you stated something like to really notice the difference in the drivers you needed to be able to hit 400' or so. Does that mean if you can't drive 400' an Eagle and an Orc are going to be the same disc for you? Also would you consider the Eagle better into a headwind than a TeeBird? Finally I don't have one in front of me right now, but isn't the rim on the Eagle the same as the TeeBird in terms of width?

Thanks.

Hawk, the Orc and Eagle do have a similar flight path, but the Orc has a longer flight for the same throwing power. A 380 ft throw with an Eagle would produce @ a 400 ft throw with an Orc. I would consider the TeeBird better into a headwind as far as accuracy goes, though the Eagle might go a little farther. The rim widths on the TeeBird and Eagle are the same. The Viking would be a disc between an Eagle and an Orc.

i would have to dispute those numbers dave. i think a 300 foot throw with an eagle might be more like a 350 foot throw with a beast or orc.
i think the speed definitely increases distance more for lower powered throwers like myself without sacrificing accuracy. if i can't afford to turn it over i still use my teebird, but the beast and pro orc have given me an extra 50 feet easily.

p.s thanks for those discs. you made us average guys really happy with them! and the sidewinder too, wow what glide!

Hi Dave. Could you tell me about the Wham-o / Innova venture and what you thought of the discs that came out of it? I got a "91" that seems to have a vinyl stamp. It was stamped San Marino and has rings on the bottom. Are these the same rings discussed with older San Marino Rocs?

Those 91 molds would flip over really bad. They also broke very easy. There were other Whamo / Innova molds as well.

Chase, the "Wham-0/Innova venture was really a Discovering the World/Innova venture. Discovering the World had the rights to the Wham-0 disc golf line at the time. We made several of the discs in that line for Discovering the World. The 91 was the first and was a distance disc of the time. The bottom is the same sort as the San Marino Rocs, but it came from the Original Stingray, I believe.

Hey dave!

just wanted to say THANKS! for the sidewinder. MAN, us michigan boys are lovin' that plate. It opens up lanes that I've never seen before...and thats in the cold. can't wait to see it unleashed in the warm spring!

Dave,
I got my first bunch of 91 molds from Mangone when he came out to Vegas. That's interesting, I wasn't aware he was the one pushing Whamo discs then. Was Matel the owner of Whamo then? Why only 3 colors? I've seen the most common blue, then lime yellow, and the rare red. Thx

Thanks Dave. How about the plastic? Is that a special designed plastic or something that was common with other Innova discs of that time?

Dave,
I got my first bunch of 91 molds from Mangone when he came out to Vegas. That's interesting, I wasn't aware he was the one pushing Whamo discs then. Was Matel the owner of Whamo then? Why only 3 colors? I've seen the most common blue, then lime yellow, and the rare red. Thx




Flyin, Mine is bright yellow with a blue stamp. Are these stamps vinyl?

Rob and Chase, it was regular DX plastic and a regular color hot stamp (as opposed to metallic). It was during the Mattel days. There were limited colors as there were very limited runs. As it was Discovering, the distribution channels were limited, and the sales were limited despite the fact that some of the models were state of the art at the time.

Hi Dave,
still going trough my boxes, my question, what is the differences between the first Phenix and the retooling (in 89 I think)?
Between which dates/years where the Phenix produced?

Hey Dave,
When did the Starfire switch molds? I've got a first run from '03 Worlds which I like, and I'd like to try one of the new molds to compare. If I bought one from a 2004 tournament, would I be getting a new or old mold, or is there no way of telling?
Thanks

The 2004 is the new mold.

Dave,
Just to clear this up... which Sidewinders are first-runs? The star stamps? or can the regular stamped ones be first-runs too? :confused: Thanks!

Dave have answered that question a while ago (somewhere on this thread I think), but anyway:
There is only one run of Sidewinders made.. so far, most of them have regular/ generic stamps.

and there a ton of 1st runs in existence from what i understand. also the star stamp is by far the rarer of the two. :)

mf100, the Phoenix was retooled from the Aero mold in 1988. I don't remember any retooling. The mold still exists, but is retired. There were only a few runs as it wasn't very popular for anything except distance and the Viper superceded it as a distance disc late 91.

DGDD, The Starfire was slightly altered to an X version after the first run. The two can be distinguished if held up next to each other, but it would be difficult otherwise. The X version is slightly more concave on the beveled edge.

a small run of the Phoenix would be cool. i dont know if i've ever thrown one :) was that the disc Sam set the distance record with years ago?

Yes, the Phenix is the disc Sam set his record with. I used to throw one, got a skip ace with one in a New Years tournament. It was a larger diameter disc, sort of like a big Whippet.

Dave, I know this has been discussed before on the forum. Personally I really like Innova's rating systems. The only problem I see, is having the same rating for the same mold in different plastics... are we supposed to believe the Pro Orc and the Champion Orc have the same stability???

I dunno, it doesn't really matter, I usually will borrow/buy a new disc anyways to try it out, but maybe it's something that could be improved upon...

Dave,

I apologize if you've already answered this, but I couldn't find the answer, looking through recent weeks of the thread. I recently saw what appeared to be 11-time KC Rocs without the usual line of text identifying them as such. Is this a new run of 11x rocs, or just an alternate stamp? Also, are they at all rare? Thanks.

Those don't have the worlds champion line on them because Climo did not win Worlds that year. I think it is the batch of KC Rocs that came out after the 11x.

disclaimer: I could be wrong though.

Drew...i think those came out before the 11x Stamp. They aren't too rare as I used to see a lot of them at PIAS around town.

Jaymo, we have a disclaimer for Pro drivers being less overstable and longer gliding than their DX or Champion counterparts, in the rating stystim.

Drew, if their is no signature, it is a new run.

Dave,

There were some non-11x stamped rocs before the 11x stamp was out.

Are you saying that you went back to the plain stamp now or what?

The KC Pro stamp, no longer has a signature. I believe it says Eleven Time now, but there might have been some previous 11 time era KC Rocs that didn't say 11 time or have a signature.

thanks

Hey Dave

So what does the guru of Innova have in his bag these days?

Dave,

I just picked up an Innova/DTW disc and am looking for a little background info. The Copyright date on the top is 1987 and the stamp is from the '95 world's biggest. It lists all the cities and then numbers out to the side. I assume the numbers are attendance, and someone told me it looks like a 44 mold. Is that right?

moolie, I carry two JK Aviars, a candy Leopard, 2 candy Sidewinders, 2 candy Vikings, 1 candy Gator, 2 Pro Starfires, a CFR Starfire, a candy TeeBird, and a Pro Shark/ or Roc.

NEngle, if it has flight rings and resembles a Viper, it is a 44 mold. It could be one of several different discs.

I think I've got one of these that is a Stingray.

Thanks Dave. Yep, has the flight rings.

moolie, I carry two JK Aviars, a candy Leopard, 2 candy Sidewinders, 2 candy Vikings, 1 candy Gator, 2 Pro Starfires, a CFR Starfire, a candy TeeBird, and a Pro Shark/ or Roc.



wow! no Champion, no Pro, no DX, or night-shift ... Orcs! :eek: :confused: :D

Just curious, what do you use when you want distance but are forced (perhaps by the lie) to throw forehand?

flynvegas, that was the 77, I think. The 78 was like a Cobra.

robj, I was throwing Orcs, but the Pro Starfires replaced them for me. I use the Starfires for sidearm distance too. The Champion Viking is my usual sidearm disc.

dave,

apologies if this has been addressed before. this thread is huge!

is there a neutral weight for discs? in other words, when making discs, is there a weight that you tend to work from when making them weigh more or less? if there is, i imagine it might be different for various discs-- if so, what's the variance for drivers, mids and putters (any driver, rocs and aviars)?

if not, is it more challenging to target consistency for lower or higher weights?

thanks much

md21954, there is a neutral weight for discs in each plastic type corresponding to its specific gravity. The specific gravity of DX is approximately .920 or lighter than water at 1.0 gms/cc. Champion and Pro plastics are heavier than water. It is hardest to mold at the maximum weight as the variance from disc to disc can be several grams at times and discs that go over have to be recycled. It doesn't matter if the disc is a driver, mid, or putter.

md21954, there is a neutral weight for discs in each plastic type corresponding to its specific gravity. The specific gravity of DX is approximately .920 or lighter than water at 1.0 gms/cc. Champion and Pro plastics are heavier than water. It is hardest to mold at the maximum weight as the variance from disc to disc can be several grams at times and discs that go over have to be recycled.

That would explain the 147g dx leopards that float!

moolie, I carry two JK Aviars, a candy Leopard, 2 candy Sidewinders, 2 candy Vikings, 1 candy Gator, 2 Pro Starfires, a CFR Starfire, a candy TeeBird, and a Pro Shark/ or Roc.





So what about headwinds Dave? Is the Starfire your driver in those situations?

Dave, is there a difference between the "night shift" orcs and regular Champion ones besides the fact that they are opaque?
Are they the same plastic as the Special Blends... Opaque Champion with a TPU additive that aids grip... or something else altogether? (Like a TPU/TPE mix like the newer Pro plastic)
Thanks for any information you can give me on this! :D

Hawk, yes the CFR Starfire is my upwind driver.

Night shift Orcs are the same as special blend USDGC Rocs. The grip is a by product of the additive which is part of the colorant. It seems to work synergistically with our plastic.

Do you guys make L molds by adding the Leopard bottom to another disc? (i.e. FL, TL, EL, etc.)
You said TLs were not Teebird/Leopard mixes, but nothing about the FL and EL, I assume they aren't as my FL looks nothing like a Leopard... I assume L means less stable...
Do you ever mix tops and bottoms of discs to come up with a new one, or do you always make a new design?
Thanks again! :D

cr, the original comment was "Leopard like", longer and less overstable for why we called a mold L. The Leopard part itself was only used for Leopards. We do use some parts in more than one mold. We also have several variations of the same disc such as Rocs and Aviars, and/or X type or L type drivers.

What up with the little rectangle sticker that come on all my new discs? And great work on the 05 ROCS and the new gators. Primo plastic.

JG, the little rectangular sticker is for mass shipping. It provides an air hole between discs to prevent warpage due to pressure changes during the trip.

Wow thats fancy. I would have never thought.

Hi Dave
Are there any durability/performance/manufacturing concerns to keep you from using the Special Blend plastic for all your Champion line discs? Do you have plans to use the Special Blend plastic in any other runs/molds?

Thanks, Ken

Kenja, for now it is limited to opaque blue and red in Champion plastic, but we are looking into a wider selection.

Kenja, for now it is limited to opaque blue and red in Champion plastic, but we are looking into a wider selection.


Nothing wrong with Red & Blue discs, I don't thing anyone would mind a run of Red or Blue Orcs....... ;)

Nothing wrong with Red & Blue discs, I don't thing anyone would mind a run of <font color="red"> Red </font> or <font color="blue"> Blue </font> Orcs....... ;)



three words: bring 'em on! :D Would red and blue mix to make purple Nightshift Orcs, or does it not work that way?

Also, Dave earlier you said you replaced Orcs in your bag with Pro Starfires. I've never thrown a Starfire. How similar are they to Orcs, and what do you prefer about them?

Dave are these pro firebirds FL's ??? or anyone else?

thanks

Jaymo, yes.

mf100, the Phoenix was retooled from the Aero mold in 1988. I don't remember any retooling. The mold still exists, but is retired. There were only a few runs as it wasn't very popular for anything except distance and the Viper superceded it as a distance disc late 91.



Dave,
why I was asking about the retooled Phenix was cause of an article I read, it�s from DiscGolf World News winter 1989, it says:
" Phenix will undergo a major re-tooling".

Well maybe it didn�t work or it became a totally new mold, the Viper.... /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif?

What are you working on at the moment, any totally new molds?
What would you like to do next !! The perfect golfdisc, maybe ;)

mf100, the Viper was based on the Phenix, but was a totally new mold. Not working on any totally new molds. We do have a disc or two in the pipeline, but not the perfect disc. That is something I would like to design though. I thought the original Wham-0 80 mold was a perfect disc along with some of the original Wham-0 40 molds. Some of our original Aeros were pretty good too. To me, a perfect disc will fly perfectly straight at high and low speeds. Most of today's discs are niche discs that are very good at something, but not everything.

Dave, thanks in advance for answering all of our questions. Does the "TL" designation always mean teebird L? I found a champioin X-OUT with TL on the bottom, but I didn't know iNnova made a champ. TL

I'll answer that one, it is a special fundraising disc (CFR) that they sell at tournements for $25.00.

Nytrail is correct. Also they come in colors and glo.

What are the two new discs you are working on? Long, mid-driver,approach or putter?

PS Thanx for releasing the Starfire in Pro plastic, fits me very well, good work!!! ;)

mf100, two long range

could you compare / contrast the Pro Starfire and Pro Orc?

Robj, The Pro Starfire is a straighter disc. Both have good glide and speed, but the Pro Starfire is a better wind disc. The CFR Starfire is
better in the wind than the Pro Starfire.

hey dave.. I just looked at the 2005 innova Catalog online and i'm totally amazed by how expensive the discs are. Maybe i've never seen the catalogs before but $16 for a champion disc and $13 for a Pro disc??
I thought it was $8,$10,and $12-13... Why did everything to up in price so much? i don't think i've ever bought a pro Disc for more than 10 and never bought a champion disc for more than $13.

-" I suck" Scott

Hi Dave. I have a question about the newest Champion Orcs. I was curious as to why this looks like completely different plastic then the previous {2?} runs? The ones I saw yesterday were completely clear.{ Not in a pigment sense} Clear like Sidewinders.Is this a new plastic? Is there a reason this plastic is better than previous plastic, and if so, when will the next "improved" plastic be along? I guess what Im asking is are these new Orcs any different to previous Orcs released and is the previous plastic used now gone? Thanks as always.

greatzky, our prices haven't changed. Those are suggested retail prices.

Chase, same plastic, but the plastic changes as the weights go down. The lighter weights are pearly, and the lightest are gummy.

well while i know that your online i might as well ask another question or two.
Why was the omega Driver discontinued and what is it comparable to in innova?
and also
I don't know if you answer throwing technique questions but:
i just changed my grip because i thought i was holding the top of the disc more than the side(if that makes sense).
NOw after playing for 2 days i have a callus on my middle finger and a blister on my ring finger..
i guess my grip is totally off?
and why does the catalog for this year not include the regular Sentinel?

thank you for the fast reply to my last post.
-"I suck" Scott

i just changed my grip because i thought i was holding the top of the disc more than the side(if that makes sense).
NOw after playing for 2 days i have a callus on my middle finger and a blister on my ring finger..
i guess my grip is totally off?

Scott,

While you're waiting for a reply, check out Blake Takkunen's article on grips [ul=http://discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml]here[/url] if you haven't already done so.

Hi Dave
I recently had a chance to throw a new max weight 175 Sidewinder. I threw the disc hard and straight down the fairway and it went from flat to anhyser cleanly and never came out till the disc hit the ground. When I take a close look at the disc I see it is domey and the diameter of the disc is the same as any of my drivers. My question to you is why does this disc turn right and stay right till finish. I really like the disc for this reason. :confused:

Hey Dave I got a Q?

I got a disc recently, on the back is says 173 and in pen says "S.E. Banshee" on the front is a simple "Innova Champion Discs/Inc" star stamp. it's got a rancho mold mark on the back. And the disc is white. It doesn't feel quite like Dx nor SE (at least the SE plastic I know) more like 10x KC Pro but tackier... if that makes sense

I think that's it, can you tell me anything about this? (Dave or anyone for that matter) Is it at all interesting, or were there lots of these made?

thank you very much.

greatzky, the Omega AP is comparable to the Pro Aviar. Lackluster sales for it and the Q Omega. The Omega SS is still selling well. I believe the Sentinel has been discontinued too. As to your grip: It is not uncommon to have a callus on the middle finger if this is your rip point. If you use the fan grip or stack grip, you could get a blister on your ring finger too if you recently are getting a lot more pressure and rip off your fingers. If your throws have good power, this is a good thing and you will get used to it. If you are not getting good power, the blister could be from slip.

Jeff, the flight you got was a combination of wind conditions, (if any), your particular throw, and the disc. If you throw nose up, your disc will fade back. The Sidewinder was based on the Stingray design.

Jaymo, I imagine it was a special run of Banshees. Probably fairly rare. Not a regular offering.

Dave,

Have you considered or tried to market an overstable midrange disc with the speed/distance and glide of a Roc? I have thrown both the Bulldog, and the Gator. While I love my new Champion Gator, it just does not have the distance of the Roc. I like the Roc, but for pulls ~300ft with any sort of head wind, the Roc is just too flippy for me.

thanks Dave :D

Dave,

I need your advice with Aviars. I settled on using the DX Putter for putting which is working out fine. What I need is an Aviar best suited for driving off tees on shorter (under 200') holes, or longer approaches that aren't mid-range worthy. I tend to flip the putters when I use them for these throws which is probably due to operator error, but is there another aviar better suited for this to fill the gap until I can do these throws with the putter? Would a stiffer one like the Classic or the K.C. be better? Would a more stable/overstable one help, and if so which Aviar is most "overstable". Thanks.

Dave,

I need your advice with Aviars. I settled on using the DX Putter for putting which is working out fine. What I need is an Aviar best suited for driving off tees on shorter (under 200') holes, or longer approaches that aren't mid-range worthy. I tend to flip the putters when I use them for these throws which is probably due to operator error, but is there another aviar better suited for this to fill the gap until I can do these throws with the putter? Would a stiffer one like the Classic or the K.C. be better? Would a more stable/overstable one help, and if so which Aviar is most "overstable". Thanks.



I'm not Dave, but I'll pass on my experiences with both of these discs. The KC is more overstable and fades more when it slows down. The Classic is a straight flyer with minimal fade when it slows down. The Classic holds a turnover line better, whereas the KC will fight to come back. The KC is better in a headwind and can handle a little more torque.

Both are great discs that are very accurate. The key is getting a smooth release and getting your spin/speed ratios worked out. I like the KC for hyzer putts and approaches and the Classic for straight and turnover putts and approaches.

Dave,

I need your advice with Aviars. I settled on using the DX Putter for putting which is working out fine. What I need is an Aviar best suited for driving off tees on shorter (under 200') holes, or longer approaches that aren't mid-range worthy. I tend to flip the putters when I use them for these throws which is probably due to operator error, but is there another aviar better suited for this to fill the gap until I can do these throws with the putter? Would a stiffer one like the Classic or the K.C. be better? Would a more stable/overstable one help, and if so which Aviar is most "overstable". Thanks.

Is this the question from Hawk? I saw a question but didn't have time to answer, and then the site crashed.

To reply: I agree with JRannefeld's assessment of the Classic and KC. There are several other options. I use the JK personally because it has a lot of grip and can handle torque. The three that are most torque resistant are the Pro series. The JK is soft and grippy, the KC is stiff, and the Pro is in between in Pro driver type plastic. The straightest flyers are the Classic and Q Omega.

Dave, would you rate the 20th anniversary Aviars with the torque-resistant KC and JK or with the straighter flying Classic and Q Omega? I finally put a anniversary Aviar in the bag but seldom throw it (it almost seems like sacrilege to throw and risk harming something of such esteem :D).

Robj, I forgot which mold it was made with, but if it follows the usual form for candy, it would be the less torque resistant putter mold, even if it has a big bead.

Robj, I forgot which mold it was made with, but if it follows the usual form for candy, it would be the less torque resistant putter mold, even if it has a big bead.



I tried to do a search for the Aviar chart someone once made that listed which Aviars were Big Beads, Small Beads, driver mold, putter mold, etc., but the website crash and post erasing has messed up the search function.

I did find this response from you to someone asking you for info about the 20th Anniversay Aviars:


mf100, they are gold Champion Aviars with a commemorative stamp. The Champion Aviar is a BB putter. The plastic is the same as the second run. It is fairly grippy and doesnt bounce like other candy.



I would like to get this down, but am having some trouble keeping it straight. Would that mean the 20th Anniversary Aviar is less torque resistant than a pro driver mold, but has more low speed fade than a champion putter mold due to the big bead?

I was on ebay looking for a new JK Pro Valk since I lost mine earlier today, and I saw that there are auctions for Proline Valks here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20851&item=7142284879&rd=1 ) . I checked Innova's web page, and it makes no mention of them being released, but they look just like new proline. Are these new, or older discs that just look like new proline?

Are these new, or older discs that just look like new proline?

They're new. (They're listed under "What's New" on the Innova West [url=http://www.innovadiscgolf.com/glanceca.html]inventory] page.) The old JK Pro was candy plastic.

Page 301 for this thread - just trying to help out. I had to keep going back until I found this page after the crash.

201.

hey dave-- i throw spiders [dx and champ] for my mids [they fly like a longer rhyno for me, which is my putter/approach], and the dx beast for long drives. what would you [or anyone] reccomend for a disc in-between the 2. i throw the spiders flat, and i flip up the dx beasts. i tried the dx and champ teebird, but they did not work for me. i was thinking pro tl or champ leopard? what do you think? thanks

Robj, the putter mold would generally have less fade whether it was big bead or small.

steven, there's a lot of room in between a Spider and a DX Beast. On the upper end of the in between straight flyers, is the Viking. The TL would be next down followed by the Champion Leopard, then the Champion Panther. I would choose the Champion Leopard myself. I listed the discs in decending order of speed.

thanks dave

Hello Dave,

this is an idea (crazy?) rather than a question.

How about making an putter named COR (or RCO, OCR, CRO) as an complement to the ORC and ROC :P

An cool series of disc (if you ask me), I looked up COR (the only combination that actually was a word).

It means English Horn (cor anglais).

Hey Dave,

I went to Texas 10 in Tyler today. I bought Sidewinder. It is red special blend. I know what I saw. I used to have SB orcs. Is it accident to make sb sidewinder? It is so sweet why dont you go ahead and make new plastic SB for all models. :D

An cool series of disc (if you ask me), I looked up COR (the only combination that actually was a word).

It means English Horn (cor anglais).

Actually, cor is French (via Latin, cornu, from which, cornet) for "horn" (cf. French Horn, cor d'harmonie).

Given the propensity of disc golfers to abbreviate disc names of more than two syllables, e.g., "valk" for "valkyrie," "TL" for "teebird, less stable," FX/FL, etc., I would suggest naming said putter after one of any of the Crotalid genus of snakes, of which my suggestion would be Timber Rattlesnake, whose scientific name (http://www.mpm.edu/collect/vertzo/herp/timber/factshe1.html) would not only to identify the disc, but also describe the user's putting skills.

Hi Dave. Whats up with the new DX plastic? Ive seen alot of the DX Orcs get sliced open deep on seemingly light tree kicks.

An cool series of disc (if you ask me), I looked up COR (the only combination that actually was a word).

It means English Horn (cor anglais).

Actually, cor is French (via Latin, cornu, from which, cornet) for "horn" (cf. French Horn, cor d'harmonie).

Given the propensity of disc golfers to abbreviate disc names of more than two syllables, e.g., "valk" for "valkyrie," "TL" for "teebird, less stable," FX/FL, etc., I would suggest naming said putter after one of any of the Crotalid genus of snakes, of which my suggestion would be Timber Rattlesnake, whose scientific name (http://www.mpm.edu/collect/vertzo/herp/timber/factshe1.html) would not only to identify the disc, but also describe the user's putting skills.



D@mn... you know way too much man... seriously, who are you? What do you do for a living? Are you Ken Jennings?

Seriously... everybody read my signature...

Dave,
I had an idea for another fundraising idea for the USDG and to promote DIscgolf in general..

I see that these Rubber Colored Wristbands are getting ridiculously popular,I wear 3myself, and they are no longer just applying to cure diseases.. I have seen some for drunk driving and other even simpler things..

What if you guys made a "CE" wrist band of a certain color(maybe silver for the chains of a basket) or a certain shape that had a disc outline on the top That you guys could sell to help support the USDGC or to support EDGE and keep promoting the sport..

I Know that as a discgolfer and all of my friends that play I would definately pick up a few if they were around the same price as the ones already out ($1-$2) To help promote the sport and spread the sport to new people..

Just something i had come up with when i was putting my wrist bands on one day before work..

LMK what you think of the idea and EVeryone else should post if they would support this idea as well...

-Scott Lewis

Scott, I think it is a good idea, but for it to be practical, it would probably have to be made where the others are made. We couldn't do it in house.

Dave, i love your answers to disc related questions, but i despair that they will ever be able to straighten out this thread with all those blank pages i have to fight back through each time. What do you think about an ask dave II thread and then keeping the old one for archival purposes?

Dr Evil, there is an Ask Dave Dunipace 2 thread, but everyone wanted to use this one I guess. Last post on that thread was Nov 04. I do monitor thread 2 too.

no more sentinals? :confused:
I have three of the limited editions... to throw or not to throw

why is the sky blue?

is the pro starfire a different mold than cfr? specifically the bottom half

steve..
Im not dave(obviously), but from waht ive heard the Starfire has been retooled twice(3 molds) so it's possible that it's a different mold.
The plastic also makes it have more glid and fly less stable..
I hear they are straight flyers that are fast with tons of glide.. Could this possibly be? the best of three worlds in one disc??

Dave- That's a shame.. That would be a great idea... eh. IT wasn't like i stayed up all night thinking about it.. It was just a thought :)

-Scott Lewis

still a good idea

Dave,

Thanks for the Aviar answer back there during the last crash. I've always liked the disc ratings you guys provide, but have always been frustrated that the Millennium discs lacked that information. I found this on an online vendors site last night for the QJLS.


The JLS started in the summer of 1999 as an experimental run of 2000 discs. Immediately players realized that Millennium had reached a new level in driver technology. Incredibly, the JLS flies farther and straighter than even the legendary Polaris LS. It is the most underrated driver on the market. Millennium's Quantum plastic is a translucent material that has a 21st Century look and feel combined with maximum durability.
Available Weights: 165-175g
Stability Rating: Speed: 8 Glide: 5 Turn: 0 Fade: +1 Speed(1-10) is how quickly a disc cuts through the air, where 10 is the fastest.
Glide(1-7) is how much "carry" or "float" a disc has where 7 is the most.
The flight of the disc is broken into two phases and rated individually.
High Speed Turn is the first part and is rated from -3 (most understable) to +1 (most overstable).
Fade is the end of the flight and it is rated from 0 (stable) to +3 (overstable).



These guys had ratings for the other M discs as well. For instance they had the Omega as a 3-3-0-+1 like an Aviar. Do you think that the numbers provided above for the QJLS are accurate? I know you've posted in the past that the JLS is most similar to the Leopard, but these look like TeeBird type numbers.

Thanks.

Hawk, I don't agree with these numbers. They're close, but the JLS has a high speed turn of -1, IMO. Also the speed might be a little slower and the glide a little higher.

Dave,

I've heard a rumor that prior to the JLS coming out there was a prototype nicknamed the "grail". Did it ever make it to production?

Prairie Dog, the Grail technology became the JLS.

Hey Dave, I like the grippiness of the Dx Orcs, but I find they get beat up super quick, I hit a hanging branch on a small tree (about 250' down the fairway) and it came down with a huge dent in the rim. This is not what I have grown accustomed to with the Dx plastic you guys normally make. Is this going to be changed from the 1st run of Dx Orcs (I suppose this plastic was in a test phase)

thanks in advance

Hawk, I don't agree with these numbers. They're close, but the JLS has a high speed turn of -1, IMO. Also the speed might be a little slower and the glide a little higher.





Dave,

So we might be talking 7/6/-1/+1?

Jaymo, the plastic was changed originally because we thought it would last longer. We changed it back because we were having other problems with it. As discs get more pointed, longer nosed, and faster, DX plastic becomes less suitable and needs to toughened up or not used for the longest range of drivers. The long range turning type drivers are the most vulnerable. The advantage of DX is the great grip and lower cost, but if you are going to play on courses where they are likely to receive damage, candy or even our new Pro is a better bet. Meanwhile I will continue to look for a tougher DX that works for long range drivers.

Hawk, yes, I think those numbers are more accurate.

sweet thanks dave... I generally use my Champ Orcs anyways (found the Pro to be too flippy for throws without a huge tailwind) but it does rain a lot where I'm from, and the Dx is always so nice to have in wet conditions

thanks

Jaymo, the plastic was changed originally because we thought it would last longer. We changed it back because we were having other problems with it. As discs get more pointed, longer nosed, and faster, DX plastic becomes less suitable and needs to toughened up or not used for the longest range of drivers. The long range turning type drivers are the most vulnerable. The advantage of DX is the great grip and lower cost, but if you are going to play on courses where they are likely to receive damage, candy or even our new Pro is a better bet. Meanwhile I will continue to look for a tougher DX that works for long range drivers.



Dave, what you say sounds great, I love the stiff DX plastic. But I wonder what the molding difference in the Beast and Orc are. To alot of people they are the same, and by looking at them they seem similar but with slightly different slopes of the rim. I have 2 DX Beast from different times, 1 is a stamp with the "creature letters" spelling beast and the other has a drawing of a beast on the front. Both of these are in the harder DX plastic. Wouldn't that DX formula work for the Orc as well?

parknputt, I think that is the formula we went back to. However, many of the other formula were out there first.

Dave no question, but I finally got an innova midrange back in my bag since the Champion Gator came out...Thanks

<font size=-3>PS...I do throw all Innova drivers though.</font> :D

Hi Dave,
any news about those Champion or Pro Zephyrs ?! ;)
Do you think it possible that you can make a run with them, 190-195gr or did you already try it ?

kjell, it is possible, especially with a new candy material we are getting in a few weeks. We are not scheduled to run Zephyrs for a while, but I would like to try a short run. There is no telling if the Zephyr would mold up properly in the first place.

A new Candy material? How will it be different then the current candy? (Which by the way is great plastic).