IS there any hope that Innova will return to the plastic blend used for 11x KC Pro Rocs?



What is it that you want to see exactly? A shape? A feel?



No. The 11x plastic is as tough as a boot. The new KC Pro plastic is much more like DX. In fact I have some DX Rocs in white that indistinguishable from the "gooey soft" KC Pro Rocs.

The 11x Rocs were hard as a rock.



I don't know why there was a difference. We use the same formula. We tried a slightly different formula once by adding an ingredient that added grip and made it a little softer. That was a few years ago. The only thing that varies, is moisture content.

I agree. My buddy just got some new KC Pro rocs in and they really don't feel any different than the DX.

The new batch of KC's we got for the Lexington Open this year do feel alot like DX in texture but I'm guessing they are more durable. I also love how you stepped outside the normal color palette for the KC's this time as we got some really funky colored ones in.

11x start out much beefier too...

Dave,

What's the deal with Polecat plastic? Or rather, why is it listed as DX?

When I heard about the R-Pro plastic being developed I imagined it would be much like a Polecat. I recently got a Dart and I have to say my first assumption wasn't far off. R-Pro and Polecat plastic are extremely similar in my opinion. I'd say the R-Pro is slightly stiffer and not QUITE as grippy but my Polecat is currently buried under some snow I've been waiting a few months for to melt so it has been just a little while since I've gripped a Polecat.

Will Polecats be listed/now created with R-Pro plastic or will there ever be any other putters made with the Polecat plastic?

Dave,

What's the deal with Polecat plastic? Or rather, why is it listed as DX?

When I heard about the R-Pro plastic being developed I imagined it would be much like a Polecat. I recently got a Dart and I have to say my first assumption wasn't far off. R-Pro and Polecat plastic are extremely similar in my opinion. I'd say the R-Pro is slightly stiffer and not QUITE as grippy but my Polecat is currently buried under some snow I've been waiting a few months for to melt so it has been just a little while since I've gripped a Polecat.

Will Polecats be listed/now created with R-Pro plastic or will there ever be any other putters made with the Polecat plastic?



What you are describing is not usual DX Polecat plastic. We have experimented with this type of R-Pro before so we might have done that with the Polecat. We will be using R-Pro eventually with all of our putters. We will still have DX too where we are already using it.

Dave when can we expect to see the Aviar X in the new R plastic?

dyanmic discs already has some for sale...

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Dynamic-Discs__W0QQ_sidZ189230667?_nkw=r+pro&submit=Search

Untrue, those are the small bead PnA.

gotcha... i didnt see the X... just read aviar

yeah... i'm waiting for the X as well

Dave when can we expect to see the Aviar X in the new R plastic?



Sorry, we don't have a timeframe yet. Next run will be the new R plastic.

Don't frigate, pirates prefer "aarrr" plastic, especially for the variant called "Birdie Nest-R"

Dave, are you still making Eco Star plastic?

Do you know where I can find a TB and a TL?

Do you know what models are available for custom stamping in this plastic?

Out of curiosity, what molds have you run so far?

^^^ Please hit ^^^ ^^^ with your skillet, maybe that will slow him down a little.

I bet you can guess what a pirate's favorite letter of the alphabet is now.

I tried the R-Pro Cro yesterday to putt. I works pretty well. I believe I'll be using it, (it's in my bag anyway), when the wind becomes too strong for my Dart. Thanks for the suggestion.



What else is in your bag these days, Dave?

Also, I've been throwing the Discmania Power Driver alot lately and really like it. Comparing it to other discs, it seems pretty similar to a more stable Starfire. Maybe a Starfire-X. Are they similar molds?

Comparing it to other discs, it seems pretty similar to a more stable Starfire. Maybe a Starfire-X. Are they similar molds?



i just find this funny as the current starfire is a starfire-x from the original

: ) :

Dave, are you still making Eco Star plastic?

Do you know where I can find a TB and a TL?

Do you know what models are available for custom stamping in this plastic?

Out of curiosity, what molds have you run so far?



Yes, we are still making Echo Star plastic. It is limited though.

I don't know if we have run Echo TBs or TLs. And, I will have to check tomorrow to see which discs we have run in Echo, and which are available for custom stamps.

I tried the R-Pro Cro yesterday to putt. I works pretty well. I believe I'll be using it, (it's in my bag anyway), when the wind becomes too strong for my Dart. Thanks for the suggestion.



What else is in your bag these days, Dave?

Also, I've been throwing the Discmania Power Driver alot lately and really like it. Comparing it to other discs, it seems pretty similar to a more stable Starfire. Maybe a Starfire-X. Are they similar molds?



My bag is full of testing discs, but my keepers so far are Darts (replaced my P2), Champion Coyote (new run), R-Pro Cro (replaced the Star Cro), Champion Monarch roller, S-PD, Star Destroyer, and Star Boss. Champion Viking and Star RR also make appearances depend on the course. Also, I am testing Ontario R-Wood Rocs, Aviar R-Wood, and R Pro Bosses, (these are fun).

The Discmania PD is like a cross between a TeeBird, Firebird, and Starfire. Although it does fly like a more stable Starfire, they are not similar molds.

what is r-wood?

Ontario R-Wood Rocs, Aviar R-Wood

More info what are these? R-Wood say what???

what is r-wood?

It is basically R-Pro with a wood filled polymer added. The wood polymer makes the R-Pro a little more stable, stiffer, and still has a great grip. It also smells like wood and is wood colored. This is just a small run to see what people think of it. We were thinking of making trophies out of this wood polymer (we still may), but when we ran it, we liked the result as a flier.

Yes, we are still making Echo Star plastic. It is limited though.

I don't know if we have run Echo TBs or TLs. And, I will have to check tomorrow to see which discs we have run in Echo, and which are available for custom stamps.



Eagerly awaiting. Echo Star TB's, TLs and Firebirds would be sweet, especially if we could get some custom stamped from Innova East. The Xcals are amazing. Thanks DD.

It also smells like wood and is wood colored.



Just what I always needed! Is this to confuse the trees?

Do you know what models are available for custom stamping in this plastic?




Echo Star Wraiths and Destroyers are available.

Dave when can we expect to see the Aviar X in the new R plastic?



Sorry, we don't have a timeframe yet. Next run will be the new R plastic.



I can't wait for an R-Pro Aviar X. The R-Pro Aviar is awesome, just a touch less stable than the JK it seems.

Yes, we are still making Echo Star plastic. It is limited though.

I don't know if we have run Echo TBs or TLs. And, I will have to check tomorrow to see which discs we have run in Echo, and which are available for custom stamps.



Eagerly awaiting. Echo Star TB's, TLs and Firebirds would be sweet, especially if we could get some custom stamped from Innova East. The Xcals are amazing. Thanks DD.




Agreed! The bottom stamped Eco Xcals are $$$$. Innova East!!!!

Dave when can we expect to see the Aviar X in the new R plastic?



Sorry, we don't have a timeframe yet. Next run will be the new R plastic.



I can't wait for an R-Pro Aviar X. The R-Pro Aviar is awesome, just a touch less stable than the JK it seems.



Probably because the Aviar doesn't have a bead, and the Aviar X does.

Dave, When do you think the R-Pro Rhynos will be run and sent out?
thanks

Dave, When do you think the R-Pro Rhynos will be run and sent out?
thanks



R-Pro Rhynos haven't been scheduled yet. I don't have a guess right now.

Hi, is the boss scheduled yet in R pro? Thanks

You are aware they have already ran and sold a number of R pro Bosses, right? Go back like 5 pages on this thread to see some talk about it.

For production release, Thanks

Hey Dave
I ordered a 150 DX Skeeter the other day and when I received it was really soft and sticky like my new R-Pro Dart. Is it possible that I have a Skeeter in R-Pro plastic?

For production release, Thanks



We don't have a date set yet, we need to schedule a run first. We will do that as soon as we can.

Hey Dave
I ordered a 150 DX Skeeter the other day and when I received it was really soft and sticky like my new R-Pro Dart. Is it possible that I have a Skeeter in R-Pro plastic?



It could be a mix like we used to use for the Rhyno and Pig, but I don't think we had R-Pro when we last ran the Skeeter. We will run the Skeeter in R-Pro for sure, next time.

Sorry if this has already been talked about because I missed it if it was. I went back a few pages and I didn't find any mention of it so...

I got this email from a disc seller:

Innova has just made the next advancement in disc golf material. RW-Pro - Rubber Wood! Rubber Wood is R-Pro plastic (which is a special compound of plastic that features the durability of Pro-Line along with an enhanced rubber grip and feel) with an environmentally friendly WOOD composite that makes the disc firmer and offers a textured grip like the old school Special Edition Rhyno and early Omega Super Soft. By far one of the most eco-friendly discs in disc golf, the RW-Pro has the look and smell of wood. Be the first to purchase this very collectible disc that will help support the 2009 US Masters. This new blend of material shows how Innova Champion Discs continues to lead the disc golf industry with new technology and material.



Is this for real?

It's for real. Try discgolfvalues.com

Hey Dave,

I know this is subjective to innova top dawgs, but I was just wondering what accomplishments it would take to get on the radar for innova sponsorship. Not trying to start any craziness just wondering what an average pro like me is trainin for. Seems likes theres too many discraft sponsored dudes around (Boo) Thanks!

Hey Dave,

I know this is subjective to innova top dawgs, but I was just wondering what accomplishments it would take to get on the radar for innova sponsorship. Not trying to start any craziness just wondering what an average pro like me is trainin for. Seems likes theres too many discraft sponsored dudes around (Boo) Thanks!



Most of the time it is a recommendation from a team member or associate. We look at character, play, and community involvement . Touring players have an advantage over local players. There are also several categories and levels of sponsorship.

I saw the wii disc golf game on another thread and it looks like the used innova disc catchers as they baskets may be, did you all have any talks with them or any input?

Dave (or anyone else that can help),

I'm just going around disc golf online retailers looking for R-Pro Bosses and I happened to stumble across something at Marshall Street that caught my attention.

Star "confidence ring" Boss (http://marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/proddetail.asp?prod=boss_star_confidencering). And then this quote is at the bottom of the page. "Ken Climo speaks of the confidence ring, and the concept has really helped me with my approach game. Check it out in the latest edition of Flying Disc Magazine..."

I had a white Star Max that I accidentally left on a course a couple of weeks ago when I used it as my marker and nailed a huge putt. Long story short, I've got a new white Star Max but it's slightly different. My old Max had a neon yellow-green (chartreuse to you fishermen) ring on the flight plate that followed the inside edge of the rim. It seemed to become brighter and more apparent the more I used the disc and I just figured it had something to do with the plastic and it was an accident.

What's up with these confidence rings?

I saw the wii disc golf game on another thread and it looks like the used innova disc catchers as they baskets may be, did you all have any talks with them or any input?



We talked to a couple of game developers, but I don't specifically remember EA.

Dave (or anyone else that can help),

I'm just going around disc golf online retailers looking for R-Pro Bosses and I happened to stumble across something at Marshall Street that caught my attention.

Star "confidence ring" Boss (http://marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/proddetail.asp?prod=boss_star_confidencering). And then this quote is at the bottom of the page. "Ken Climo speaks of the confidence ring, and the concept has really helped me with my approach game. Check it out in the latest edition of Flying Disc Magazine..."

I had a white Star Max that I accidentally left on a course a couple of weeks ago when I used it as my marker and nailed a huge putt. Long story short, I've got a new white Star Max but it's slightly different. My old Max had a neon yellow-green (chartreuse to you fishermen) ring on the flight plate that followed the inside edge of the rim. It seemed to become brighter and more apparent the more I used the disc and I just figured it had something to do with the plastic and it was an accident.

What's up with these confidence rings?



No clue really. I have seen color rings from color bleeds and changes, but I have never heard the term confidence ring, and I don't know what it means.

Climo's ring of confidence is an imaginary ring around the basket where you are confident that you'll make atleast 50% of your putts. He talks about it in the new bid him and Feldberg just did.

dave, first time questioner over here... i was wondering if you had ever considered producing toddler sized discs that might be somewhere in between a mini and a roc.

Regular discs are in between the diameter of a mini and a roc too lol!

How about ultralights? They can be found online.

dave, first time questioner over here... i was wondering if you had ever considered producing toddler sized discs that might be somewhere in between a mini and a roc.



We haven't thought that the market would be sufficient in disc golf. The toy market might be able to support that type of disc. I believe that Wham-o has produced at least a 5" Pocket Pro And our affiliate Herodiscusa.com produces a 120 cm (4 1/2") and 160 cm (6 1/4") lightweight disc.

merkaba, i definitely have a star max with one of those yellow rings on the underside of the wing, where a bead would be on slower discs.

Dave,

I just saw that Grooves, Wraiths, and Destroyers were ran in the mint green Eco plastic like the early Xcalibers. Are there any plans to use this plastic in Bosses or Teebirds?

Dave,

I just saw that Grooves, Wraiths, and Destroyers were ran in the mint green Eco plastic like the early Xcalibers. Are there any plans to use this plastic in Bosses or Teebirds?



Not necessarily mint green, but we will use Echo Star in TeeBirds and we will if we can in Bosses.

any eta on the echo teebirds??? i need them desperately!!!!

anymore word on the r-pro boss regular run?

any eta on the echo teebirds??? i need them desperately!!!!



It's not presently in the schedule. That means it's more than a month out.

anymore word on the r-pro boss regular run?



The run is scheduled to start in approximately three weeks. That usually means that run probably won't hit the shelves until late May.

will there be any super rocs this year or will it only be the monarchs with collectors stamps? will the r-pro boss be heavier than most of what discgolfvalues.com received? or will they be a bit heavier? thanks for the time again dave!

will there be any super rocs this year or will it only be the monarchs with collectors stamps? will the r-pro boss be heavier than most of what discgolfvalues.com received? or will they be a bit heavier? thanks for the time again dave!



I am not sure about the Super Rocs, but I am pretty sure there will be more than the Monarchs with collector stamps. The R-Pro Boss will be run in 150 class and weights up to mid sixties. I don't know what weights discgolfvalues has.

Dave, have the Discmania drivers been scheduled for R-Pro yet?

Dave, have the Discmania drivers been scheduled for R-Pro yet?



No.

I love the CFR program idea - to get a certain style disc you have to buy in from a TD to help raise funds for their tournament.

In the past, the CFR line of discs, most noteably the Champion TL, have been hot sellers. Now the TL is available in Star plastic so for someone who is looking to buy some, Star is a cheaper and much more accessible way. The Max is another example of this.

Obviously this program is a huge success with the Rocs for USDGC, but are their plans to include more desired discs through the CFR program?

At Bowling Green you had an R-pro Dart with a textured feel. I've yet to see this in any of the retail shops. What can you tell me about the availability of this in maybe a Roc or Gator?

I love the CFR program idea - to get a certain style disc you have to buy in from a TD to help raise funds for their tournament.

In the past, the CFR line of discs, most noteably the Champion TL, have been hot sellers. Now the TL is available in Star plastic so for someone who is looking to buy some, Star is a cheaper and much more accessible way. The Max is another example of this.

Obviously this program is a huge success with the Rocs for USDGC, but are their plans to include more desired discs through the CFR program?



Yes we plan to include more discs. We just recently added both Glow Champion Destroyers and Xcalibers. More to come.

I guess my question was really about exclusiveness. I remember the TL's being huge sellers b/c you couldn't get them in other plastic.

Both the Destroyer and XCals are available in other forms much cheaper.

If I'm a casual golfer looking to buy a Destroyer and one is 12 and one is 20, I'm picking the one that is 12.

Dave,
These Pro Destroyers feel different than others I have had They are stamped "Champion Edition Pro Destroyers" any difference that you know of? I haven't throw it yet to compare it to others but it really feels stiffer and more durable. Maybe its just me

http://primediscs.com/proddetail.asp?prod=destoryer%2D08voaj&cat=65

Dave,
These Pro Destroyers feel different than others I have had They are stamped "Champion Edition Pro Destroyers" any difference that you know of? I haven't throw it yet to compare it to others but it really feels stiffer and more durable. Maybe its just me

http://primediscs.com/proddetail.asp?prod=destoryer%2D08voaj&cat=65

I don't know what a "Champion Edition Pro Destroyer" is. The link you provided didn't work for me. Sorry.

Any word on this year's general release of USDGC Rocs? Am I the only one in the dark on this issue? Typically there's quite a *buzz* this time of year surrounding their expected release... Thanks for your continued devotion to the sport, Dave.
-ben

Any word on this year's general release of USDGC Rocs? Am I the only one in the dark on this issue? Typically there's quite a *buzz* this time of year surrounding their expected release... Thanks for your continued devotion to the sport, Dave.
-ben

This is a question better handled by zonedriven. Last I heard, they were sorting and cataloging.

Collector Roc's are being shipped next week. ZD sold one on eBay last week for almost $290 with proceeds going to EDGE. I like the Orivle stamp, there are 5 stamps one for Doss.

Hi Dave - I just received a few R-Pro-W discs in the mail and I must say, these are some of the (if not *the*) grippiest-feeling discs I have ever held. Can't wait to throw them, and I'm actually hoping for rain so I can see how they grip when wet.

Thanks for your continued curiosity.

Collector Roc's are being shipped next week. ZD sold one on eBay last week for almost $290 with proceeds going to EDGE. I like the Orivle stamp, there are 5 stamps one for Doss.

Mine shipped yesterday 4/28 ... should have them by early next week.

Try this http://primediscs.com/proddetail.asp?prod=destoryer-08voaj for the Destroyer Question one more time

I ran home on my lunch break because my package with my rw pro aviar came in the mail. Definitely very grippy plastic...looks like it's gonna be an awesome putter. I was actually suprised at how firm the putter was, maybe because mine was a 175. I'd imagine that the wood composite was blended in to keep some firmness in the disc while still having great grip. I won't get a chance to throw it until first thing tomorrow morning, but I'll post back with some thoughts afterwards.

I just received my RW-Pro Rancho Roc and the baby is suuuuuuhweet!!

Dave, is there a production run of the RW-Pro blend being scheduled?!!?

I just received my RW-Pro Rancho Roc and the baby is suuuuuuhweet!!

Dave, is there a production run of the RW-Pro blend being scheduled?!!?

No, not at this time. This was basically just a market test run.

Try this http://primediscs.com/proddetail.asp?prod=destoryer-08voaj for the Destroyer Question one more time

Now I understand. The disc is a Pro Destroyer. The stamp is a custom hotstamp that says Champion Edition. That was confusing. The Pro plastic is the same as we have been using lately. It has evolved over the years to be a little tougher than it used to be.

Mine shipped yesterday 4/28 ... should have them by early next week.

I'm assuming you were one of the partners and got a call to place your order personally. What about those of us who were not partners? I thought the ZoneDriven pro shop had closed... can they still be contacted about the Rocs?

I just received my RW-Pro Rancho Roc and the baby is suuuuuuhweet!!

Dave, is there a production run of the RW-Pro blend being scheduled?!!?

Question... What is flat like a ching?... Smells like Sawdust?... And is the grippiest disc i've ever owned?

Answer.... RW-Pro Rancho Roc

https://www.discgolfvalues.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=277&PHPSESSID=96d7f63882a1bd90081e2e018cf64737

Holy bejesus..... Only 294 more.. I'm getting 2 more.. :)

-Chris A

I'm assuming you were one of the partners and got a call to place your order personally. What about those of us who were not partners? I thought the ZoneDriven pro shop had closed... can they still be contacted about the Rocs?

If you contact zonedriven via the pro shop, you will be redirected to the DGU site where the Rocs are.

Aced w/ my RW-Pro Ontario Roc on it's 2nd throw yesterday. The feel of this disc is sweet. The aviar is very nice also. Rancho Roc is not as firm as the other two but is very, very flat. Definitely should make some more discs in this plastic!

Hey Dave, sorry to post just another "hey, when's this coming out" post, but I was wondering if Cobras (either mold) will be run again in any plastic besides DX. Love that disc for consistent anny's or hyzer flip shots, but the DX beats in sooo fast. I like its out-of-the-box stability. Thanks!
jfarm

I played a round with my RW pro aviar this morning and loved it. It flew very true and had better grip than my jk in the wetness. I'm defninitely going to order a few more as backups. I can't say my deluxe bag held up as well though. Halfway through the round one of the loops that my quad shocks attach to ripped. This bag was a replacement of another that had the same issue. So now I'm a day and a half away from an A-tier scrambling to find a decent bag.

I played a round with my RW pro aviar this morning and loved it. It flew very true and had better grip than my jk in the wetness. I'm defninitely going to order a few more as backups. I can't say my deluxe bag held up as well though. Halfway through the round one of the loops that my quad shocks attach to ripped. This bag was a replacement of another that had the same issue. So now I'm a day and a half away from an A-tier scrambling to find a decent bag.


Take a few photos of the bag showing the problem and send to infoATinnovadiscsDOTcom or call 800-476-3968 to speak to someone right away.

Hey Dave, sorry to post just another "hey, when's this coming out" post, but I was wondering if Cobras (either mold) will be run again in any plastic besides DX. Love that disc for consistent anny's or hyzer flip shots, but the DX beats in sooo fast. I like its out-of-the-box stability. Thanks!
jfarm

The Cobra gets run occasionally in Champion or Star, but they go into the tournament support program. We presently have Star for cfr, and are planning to add Glow Champion, when we can get to it.

J. Poole, Dave,

I just wanted to say thanks for the rocs. I came home from work today and saw to innova box in my garage, and was excited as a kid at christmas. The discs look amazing and i just wanted to say thanks.

Great news, then mine should be on the way.

Did I just read back there somewhere that there was going to be a "Doss" stamp on one of the new Rocs?

Is he part of Team Innova now?

You are correct

Wow.

Do all Big D team members secretly wish to be a part of the BIG I?

I highly doubt that Doss is now throwing for Team Innova. I think that he has a stamp because he won the USDGC last year. I'm merely speculating here, but the only Discraft player I know of jumping ship is Bennett, but it was an all around better deal for him the long run.

but the only Discraft player I know of jumping ship is Bennett, .

Ulibarri, Billings, to name a couple others.

Here is a link to this year's USDGC Roc stamps. The Doss stamp is on the top right. I am sure the stamp just features last year's winner, who happens to be a Discrafter.

http://www.icebowlhq.com/docs/2009_usdgc_rocs.pdf

Bennett went to Gateway

Ulibarri, Billings, to name a couple others.

Here is a link to this year's USDGC Roc stamps. The Doss stamp is on the top right. I am sure the stamp just features last year's winner, who happens to be a Discrafter.

http://www.icebowlhq.com/docs/2009_usdgc_rocs.pdf

Yes, Nate is on the stamp because he won. He is still sponsored by Discraft.

so who do i have to talk to to be able to get my hands on one of these beauties without getting my wallet emptied? will they be for sale at a legitimate price anywhere? and dont say "just go to the show" b/c i will be awfully busy with a new young boy and completely unable to do anything out of state much less out of house. duh duh duuuhhn

Not sure if any will make it to the general public release. Usually the partners buy the entire runs of all stamps before they can get to the public. Right after they are released they will be at their highest prices, then they seem to come back down to a reasonable amount after a month or two. Just be patient.......................

I'm waiting on mine ot arrive.

just got my 2 RW ranchos yesterday on my B day, what a nice present to my self lol. absolutely love them especially since im a flat top roc fan...




just ordered 4 more

I know this may date me but i have a question
Do you still have the mold for the old bead whippet
If so what was the reason for the change (in my opinion the old bead was much more stable and a wind hog,the new mold good but not as wind resistant)
I would be interested how the old bead would be in the newer plastic(i kinda salivate,star old bead whippet..mmmmmmm)
The reason for the thought, I was recently at a tourny with 40+constant winds and everything I threw,into the wind, even the extreme (sorry discraft reference,but nothing innova has is as stable in my opinion,,if there is tell me)ended up looking like a beat up 40 mold
back in the day I remember similar situations where that old bead whippet was the trick
maybe a CFR program or limited run/special edition...throw me a bone

I know this may date me but i have a question
Do you still have the mold for the old bead whippet
If so what was the reason for the change (in my opinion the old bead was much more stable and a wind hog,the new mold good but not as wind resistant)
I would be interested how the old bead would be in the newer plastic(i kinda salivate,star old bead whippet..mmmmmmm)
The reason for the thought, I was recently at a tourny with 40+constant winds and everything I threw,into the wind, even the extreme (sorry discraft reference,but nothing innova has is as stable in my opinion,,if there is tell me)ended up looking like a beat up 40 mold
back in the day I remember similar situations where that old bead whippet was the trick
maybe a CFR program or limited run/special edition...throw me a bone

Whippet X is the ticket. We don't have the old bead. Also the X Monster and Max are over stable. 40+is a heck of a wind to be throwing into, but a new disc will still take it if you can release it smoothly. The trick is to not flutter it. That is not that easy with your arm moving into that current, however.

Question... What is flat like a ching?... Smells like Sawdust?... And is the grippiest disc i've ever owned?

Answer.... RW-Pro Rancho Roc

https://www.discgolfvalues.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=277&PHPSESSID=96d7f63882a1bd90081e2e018cf64737

Holy bejesus..... Only 294 more.. I'm getting 2 more.. :)

-Chris A

Its dirt colored... that will be easy to find.

Its dirt colored... that will be easy to find.

I hit a tree eighty feet off the tee and it folded like I have never seen a disc fold. I won't be throwing it any more.

I highly doubt that Doss is now throwing for Team Innova. I think that he has a stamp because he won the USDGC last year. I'm merely speculating here, but the only Discraft player I know of jumping ship is Bennett, but it was an all around better deal for him the long run.

what about 5x World Champ Juliana -- the only women to ever cash at the USDGC?

Nate ought to consider it :cool:

When will the Innova Type XT bag that was given to players at the 2008 Japan Open in the players pack be released for sale to the public? I've only used mine a couple of times but I'm getting ready to take mine to a tournament this weekend and that made me think about it again.

When will the Innova Type XT bag that was given to players at the 2008 Japan Open in the players pack be released for sale to the public? I've only used mine a couple of times but I'm getting ready to take mine to a tournament this weekend and that made me think about it again.

At this point, it was special to that event and Japan. If it is available in the USA, it would be through herodiscusa.com at this point.

I hit a tree eighty feet off the tee and it folded like I have never seen a disc fold. I won't be throwing it any more.

Exactly why I couldn't believe RW is real. Makes sense for putters but as tee shot plastic it seems like a bad idea.

I agree on the Whippet-X and also the Champ Viper when it comes to wind play. I have another question concerning the Whippet-X, I was at a tourney this past weekend and a vendor had a Champ Whippet-X. It wasn't one of the old one's with the circle stamp, It had a new 2008 Stamp. Have there been a few champ Whippet-X's run recently or is this an accident? I bought the disc - No way I could leave it there and compared it to my other champion discs and my Star Whippets. It's definitely a Whippet-X and is translucent like the champ plastic and feels like the champ plastic. I also compared it to my other Champ Whippets and its the same mold but it is not the old school champ/CE plastic. Just curious. Now if I could just find a Star Banshee!

I agree on the Whippet-X and also the Champ Viper when it comes to wind play. I have another question concerning the Whippet-X, I was at a tourney this past weekend and a vendor had a Champ Whippet-X. It wasn't one of the old one's with the circle stamp, It had a new 2008 Stamp. Have there been a few champ Whippet-X's run recently or is this an accident? I bought the disc - No way I could leave it there and compared it to my other champion discs and my Star Whippets. It's definitely a Whippet-X and is translucent like the champ plastic and feels like the champ plastic. I also compared it to my other Champ Whippets and its the same mold but it is not the old school champ/CE plastic. Just curious. Now if I could just find a Star Banshee!

It wasn't a new run. Must has been from a run that didn't get stamped.

Hi Dave-
What is to be the future of the r-pro boss? will it be a regular model, and if so, what will be the weight range? When these are new, they fly like no other. I put the 150's head-to-head against my dx destroyers, the disc i use in an open setting when i need max D, and the bosses consistently flew further for me. They do get beat up very easily and turn understable quickly, but I just use them for open shots, and they are lasting about as long as my dx destroyers. one good hit and they are done, but I can deal with that and stock up, and the grip and D is worth it for some shots.
Thanks

Hi Dave-
What is to be the future of the r-pro boss? will it be a regular model, and if so, what will be the weight range? When these are new, they fly like no other. I put the 150's head-to-head against my dx destroyers, the disc i use in an open setting when i need max D, and the bosses consistently flew further for me. They do get beat up very easily and turn understable quickly, but I just use them for open shots, and they are lasting about as long as my dx destroyers. one good hit and they are done, but I can deal with that and stock up, and the grip and D is worth it for some shots.
Thanks

Hi Steven,

We are going to start a main run of R-Pro Bosses next week. We are shooting for 150 class to mid sixties. You bring up some good points about these R-Pro drivers. I am not sure if we are going to make any other drivers in R-Pro as they don't do well on high speed tree contact. That being said, I did a real good taco job on an R-Boss, but was able to reform the rim easily. And, although the flight plate still looked bad, the disc was as stable as new and is still flying fine. So, I wouldn't be so quick to think the disc you smashed is done yet. You might be able to bend it back in shape. Short sharp tweeks work best to reform the rim. You can actually overdo it by bending the nose up too far and produce an overstable driver.

Hi Steven,

We are going to start a main run of R-Pro Bosses next week. We are shooting for 150 class to mid sixties. You bring up some good points about these R-Pro drivers. I am not sure if we are going to make any other drivers in R-Pro as they don't do well on high speed tree contact. That being said, I did a real good taco job on an R-Boss, but was able to reform the rim easily. And, although the flight plate still looked bad, the disc was as stable as new and is still flying fine. So, I wouldn't be so quick to think the disc you smashed is done yet. You might be able to bend it back in shape. Short sharp tweeks work best to reform the rim. You can actually overdo it by bending the nose up too far and produce an overstable driver.

Dave, do you think that's the plastic, or the disc? For example, if you ran a R-Pro Wraith, would they have a similar break in lifespan of a normal Pro Wraith?

Any plans for the R-pro XD or better yet the RW-Pro XD????

Dave please tell me you are going to make R-pro fairway drivers specfically leopards and teebirds. I would love to see how something with that much glide would fly with that much grip.

Dave, do you think that's the plastic, or the disc? For example, if you ran a R-Pro Wraith, would they have a similar break in lifespan of a normal Pro Wraith?

The R-Wraith would be similar to an R-Boss, rather than a driver Pro.

Any plans for the R-pro XD or better yet the RW-Pro XD????

Yes, we will do the R-Pro XD when we can get to it. No plans for the Rw version.

Dave please tell me you are going to make R-pro fairway drivers specfically leopards and teebirds. I would love to see how something with that much glide would fly with that much grip.

Most likely, at this point, R-Pro will be reserved for lighter weight drivers. The grip is terrific, but the impact resistance is not, especially for the heavier versions. If we can find a more impact resistant formula for the heavier drivers, we will make them. Right now, the main point of the R-Pro Boss is to empower weaker throwers to throw longer. For more powerful throwers, they will mainly be for fun, and distance records.

Dave please tell me you are going to make R-pro fairway drivers specfically leopards and teebirds. I would love to see how something with that much glide would fly with that much grip.

I should have said previously, that we will be making R-Pro in 150 Class for most of our drivers including Leopards and TeeBirds.

Hi Dave,

Play it Again sports is offering Laser Printing on discs and I was wanting to know which plastic would work and keep the print? I assume Star plastic would work, but was unsure about Pro and DX. Any idea? Thanks.

Hi Dave,

Play it Again sports is offering Laser Printing on discs and I was wanting to know which plastic would work and keep the print? I assume Star plastic would work, but was unsure about Pro and DX. Any idea? Thanks.

I really don't know the answer as it is dependent on the ink they are using. Star, Champion, and Pro have worked in the past. DX gets fuzzy.

Hi Dave,

I am amazed on how far a Star Destroyer will go on a hyzer line... I used to work on countering my hyzer tendencies to get good D with stable drivers, but the Destroyer seems to go and go when I power hyzer it. Is that a characteristic of the Destroyer in particular, or do some of other super fast drivers also have that capability?

Also, sorry if I missed it, but do you have an ETA for JK Aviar-x in the new Rubber Pro material?

Hi Dave,

I am amazed on how far a Star Destroyer will go on a hyzer line... I used to work on countering my hyzer tendencies to get good D with stable drivers, but the Destroyer seems to go and go when I power hyzer it. Is that a characteristic of the Destroyer in particular, or do some of other super fast drivers also have that capability?

Also, sorry if I missed it, but do you have an ETA for JK Aviar-x in the new Rubber Pro material?

Hi Rob,

I don't know if it is particular to the Destroyer or not. I have found the same thing in my game. It might be that the Star Bosses I am playing with will eventually beat in to produce a similar result. The Star Destroyers I have that do what you are describing are well worn. The only other disc I have that produces a similar flight is my Groove. The Groove is better for the straight sidearm and the Destroyer is better for the straight backhand.

Sorry, no eta for the next JK run.

Someone woke up an old Ask Dave thread, so lets try to use this one instead. Dave, two questions:
I saw some R Pro Wood Birdies on ebay, did it work out ok?
Did you ever try the Jaguar in any other material than DX?

Someone woke up an old Ask Dave thread, so lets try to use this one instead. Dave, two questions:
I saw some R Pro Wood Birdies on ebay, did it work out ok?
Did you ever try the Jaguar in any other material than DX?

Hi Kjell,

We made a few R-Pro Birdies, but I don't recall making any R-Wood Birdies. They were very soft and rubbery, much like the ones we made for DGA 15 yrs ago.

I don't recall trying the Jaguar in any other material other than DX, and I don't believe Champion or regular Star would be light enough. R-Pro would be feasible, but we don't have any plans at this point.

Really, the point of the Jaguar, was to empower weaker throwers. We now have a new product coming out that will do a better job, I believe. R-Pro Bosses in weights from 164 gms down to 130 gms. The lightest also float in water. With these discs, I don't see the point in a Jaguar, which would be heavier, harder to throw, and not go as far.

Hi Dave. In regards to the new Star Boss. In the lighter weights, the wing shrunk on the bottom creating an undercambered wing. This anomaly produced maybe the fastest and most consistent (read that not squirrelly) driver on the planet. My guess is that these 160ish gram Star drivers, with the plastic shrunk the most in the wing, are some of the most beloved discs of the best players across the country.

This Boss is like the fastest, longest, Teerex-X ever made. Better than a Max for really windy days.

Mate a flat winged Boss (like a heavier Star Boss) to a an undercamered wing Boss and you have the deadliest one/two punch in the game.

My question. Can you make more discs like this?

Dave, i saw on ebay a beadless pro rhyno, any feed back on how they flew?
thanks, Patrick

Hi Dave. In regards to the new Star Boss. In the lighter weights, the wing shrunk on the bottom creating an undercambered wing. This anomaly produced maybe the fastest and most consistent (read that not squirrelly) driver on the planet. My guess is that these 160ish gram Star drivers, with the plastic shrunk the most in the wing, are some of the most beloved discs of the best players across the country.

This Boss is like the fastest, longest, Teerex-X ever made. Better than a Max for really windy days.

Mate a flat winged Boss (like a heavier Star Boss) to a an undercamered wing Boss and you have the deadliest one/two punch in the game.

My question. Can you make more discs like this?

Most of the 160ish Star Bosses are very stable to overstable. Some are very over stable. The exact flight characteristic seems to depend on the particular batch of plastic from the manufacturer. The heavier ones are more mellow flyers.

Dave, i saw on ebay a beadless pro rhyno, any feed back on how they flew?
thanks, Patrick

They flew like a regular Pro Rhyno with less low speed over-stability.

Hi Kjell,

We made a few R-Pro Birdies, but I don't recall making any R-Wood Birdies. They were very soft and rubbery, much like the ones we made for DGA 15 yrs ago.

I don't recall trying the Jaguar in any other material other than DX, and I don't believe Champion or regular Star would be light enough. R-Pro would be feasible, but we don't have any plans at this point.

Really, the point of the Jaguar, was to empower weaker throwers. We now have a new product coming out that will do a better job, I believe. R-Pro Bosses in weights from 164 gms down to 130 gms. The lightest also float in water. With these discs, I don't see the point in a Jaguar, which would be heavier, harder to throw, and not go as far.

R-Wood birdies, sorry my mistake, thanx for the info.
R-Pro Bosses, are we talking cfr-discs here or will they be available in the regular line-up soon?

Hi Steven,

We are going to start a main run of R-Pro Bosses next week. We are shooting for 150 class to mid sixties.

Should be a regular lineup, should be soon! Can't wait!

when should retailers be seeing the 165 r-pro bosses?

Most of the 160ish Star Bosses are very stable to overstable. Some are very over stable. The exact flight characteristic seems to depend on the particular batch of plastic from the manufacturer. The heavier ones are more mellow flyers.

That was my point. Could you you make a Boss like this on purpose?

In my opinion, these lighter disc Bosses are superior in their overstability to the typical Innova fat nosed L wing overstable drivers (Max Monster, etc).

Maybe it would be worth exploring this type of design? It would certainly be easier to make in light weights than the big nosed versions.

R-Wood birdies, sorry my mistake, thanx for the info.
R-Pro Bosses, are we talking cfr-discs here or will they be available in the regular line-up soon?

R-Pro Bosses will be available in the regular line-up in June.

when should retailers be seeing the 165 r-pro bosses?

Retailers should have them by the second week in June.

when should retailers be seeing the 165 r-pro bosses?


We are only planning on running lighter weight R-Pro Bosses. The heavier they get, the more fragile they get, and the less carry the have. The most useful for the power disenfranchised players will be from the floater 130's to the 150 class. These are already available in limited amounts at herodiscusa and discgolfvalues should have more Masters R-Pro Bosses soon.

Hey Dave how is it goin I have a question for you I love throwing my KC Pro Roc

and i am playing on getting more of em but my question is what is the difference is any between the San Marino Roc, Ontario Roc, and rancho Roc.

Stan

Hey Dave how is it goin I have a question for you I love throwing my KC Pro Roc

and i am playing on getting more of em but my question is what is the difference is any between the San Marino Roc, Ontario Roc, and rancho Roc.

Stan

Hi Stan,

The Ontario Roc is the most different of the three and the straightest flyer. In DX it will beat up most easily to perform turnover shots.

The San Marino is much more high speed stable than the Ontario and takes longer to beat in. It also is more low speed over stable, and has about the same glide.

The Rancho is the most over stable of the three, and generally the flattest, which tends to make it the best into a headwind, though the San Marino is still pretty good at that. The Ontario is not for headwinds.

Hi Stan,

The Ontario Roc is the most different of the three and the straightest flyer. In DX it will beat up most easily to perform turnover shots.

The San Marino is much more high speed stable than the Ontario and takes longer to beat in. It also is more low speed over stable, and has about the same glide.

The Rancho is the most over stable of the three, and generally the flattest, which tends to make it the best into a headwind, though the San Marino is still pretty good at that. The Ontario is not for headwinds.

I hate to assume so...

I have three Rocs and they all say Rancho Cucamonga on the bottom (part of the mold) so are all of mine Rancho Rocs or is there some other way to tell?

I hate to assume so...

I have three Rocs and they all say Rancho Cucamonga on the bottom (part of the mold) so are all of mine Rancho Rocs or is there some other way to tell?

That's the easiest way to tell. The engraving.

Hi Dave,

Please give me your take on the flight characteristics of the Test Run R-Pro XCalibers that are about to be released. How do they compare to or contrast the R-Pro Boss?

Thanks, Mike

Hi Dave,

Please give me your take on the flight characteristics of the Test Run R-Pro XCalibers that are about to be released. How do they compare to or contrast the R-Pro Boss?

Thanks, Mike

Sorry, I was testing other stuff and forgot to test that one. I will try to give it another shot Monday.

Hey Dave,

Are the Star Xcalibers like the Star Bosses in that the lighter ones are more stable? If so what is the cutoff weight? Are there any other discs that are like this? Thanks for all your help.

trey27

Hey Dave,

Are the Star Xcalibers like the Star Bosses in that the lighter ones are more stable? If so what is the cutoff weight? Are there any other discs that are like this? Thanks for all your help.

trey27

I don't believe we have made any other discs like the light Star Bosses. If we had made any XCalibers or Destroyers like this, they would be less than 168 gms. As far as I know, we only have 170 and up. We don't have any immediate plans to do the Starlight in XCalibers, but will probably do some Starlight Destroyers as they should go down to around 164 gms. A stable Destroyer around 164 gms would be good, I think.

Hi Dave,

Any plans for a Star, Champion or DX Pig? I thought I read R-Pro was next, but would like one in a more durable plastic.

Hey Dave can you please tell me if you are planning on running any regular Pro Bosses like the one you made for primediscs. I bought one of these and they are no doubt one of the best things I have ever thrown and it actually holds up when it hits things. So its kind of the best of both worlds I would just like to have the ability to afford more than just one since they are selling for $20.

Hi Dave,

Any plans for a Star, Champion or DX Pig? I thought I read R-Pro was next, but would like one in a more durable plastic.

We did do DX, but they were too stiff. Star and Champion aren't light enough plastics to work.

Hey Dave can you please tell me if you are planning on running any regular Pro Bosses like the one you made for primediscs. I bought one of these and they are no doubt one of the best things I have ever thrown and it actually holds up when it hits things. So its kind of the best of both worlds I would just like to have the ability to afford more than just one since they are selling for $20.

I believe we will run Pro Bosses in the next month or so. I have been testing one and actually trying to beat it up. So far, it has been holding up.

Dave, a while ago you said:
At some point in time, we will make a small run of Star Gazelles for tournament fundraising. Not sure when that will happen.
The prospect is exciting! Since Discraft just announced a full production run of ESP Cyclones for the end of May, here (http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11940&start=268), is there any chance for seeing any Star Gazelles soon?

Dave, i saw a Red-tailed hawk today working on its glide... given that -- how about releasing some Pro Orcs in the Rubber Pro plastic?

Am I better off trying Pro Destroyers?

dave--
got a stack of dx aeros recently. a few are a more rubbery, pro-type plastic. these also are flatter than the other ones, which are quite domey. How will the flatter ones differ in flight from the traditional domey ones?
thanks-steven

Dave, a while ago you said:

The prospect is exciting! Since Discraft just announced a full production run of ESP Cyclones for the end of May, here (http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11940&start=268), is there any chance for seeing any Star Gazelles soon?

Probably not soon, but stuff happens. Right now, we have a full schedule.

Dave, i saw a Red-tailed hawk today working on its glide... given that -- how about releasing some Pro Orcs in the Rubber Pro plastic?

Am I better off trying Pro Destroyers?

Yes, or regular Pro Orcs.

dave--
got a stack of dx aeros recently. a few are a more rubbery, pro-type plastic. these also are flatter than the other ones, which are quite domey. How will the flatter ones differ in flight from the traditional domey ones?
thanks-steven

I couldn't tell you with any certainty, but generally for Aeros, flatter usually means more stable high speed. Domey was never a good indicator for an Aero and stability.

Sorry, I was testing other stuff and forgot to test that one. I will try to give it another shot Monday.


Any updates on the R-Pro XCalibers?

Yes, or regular Pro Orcs.

Or the Discmania Pro PD. Little more stable than the Orc, but similar speed.

Any updates on the R-Pro XCalibers?

I only got a chance to throw a 150 gm, which is what we made the most of. The 150g R-Pro XC was possibly a hair more high and low speed stable than the R-Pro Boss, but wasn't as long. It wasn't high speed stable enough to be called a control disc, as it still had a slight turn. Possibly the 160s were a little more stable, but I haven't tested that yet.

Hey Dave, any word on if they will bring back the gazelle in any other plastic other than dx? Love the dx but I know at any time its one tree away from a roller.

Wouldnt mind having a viper or whippet in good plastic either but my banshee is good for now.

A Gazelle as part of the CFR Program - we would order 100 as a club.

Its been so long i dont even know how a gazelle flies? What would it be compared to?

A Gazelle as part of the CFR Program - we would order 100 as a club.

I will keep my eyes out. I would like at least 172. Thanks for the info.

Its been so long i dont even know how a gazelle flies? What would it be compared to?

A slower teebird.

Its been so long i dont even know how a gazelle flies? What would it be compared to?

It is the disc that people who throw Wraiths 280- to 300' should be throwing...

It is super controllable and it will become the disc that people will ask after you throw a great shot, "Hey, what disc was that?"

It is the disc that people who throw Wraiths 280- to 300' should be throwing...

It is super controllable and it will become the disc that people will ask after you throw a great shot, "Hey, what disc was that?"

LOL, I think someone just asked me, what disc is that? this week! I would think it would be a sweet disc for the R pro plastic.

Whould love to see Champion Cheetahs or Star Cheetahs.

I used to want that but i am not sure how it fit into my bag, loved them when i first started 10 yrs ago but might not work now.

Star Cheetahs sound yummy -- maybe they'd be like the 10x KC pro ones which were extra durable & stable...

I would adjust the bag to try and fit them back in. they might not be great headwind or max distance discs, but they would be great golf discs ;)

then again maybe i am just being nostalgic.

drivers in my bag:

Star Boss (seldom thrown, there for massive headwinds)
Star Destroyer
Star Destroyer
SB Orc
Champ Orc
Pro Orc
Star TL
Ch Roadrunner

The Star Destroyer has already started displacing the Orc as my go-to driver... (i'm stocked up on Pearly Champ and Tulsa SB Orcs too...)

not sure what the Star Cheetah would displace -- RR, Orc?

Hey Dave,

Cound you go into a little detail about the first run star bosses that are pretty see-through? I'm interested in knowing a little more about the mix of plastics you used, and stabilities.

These fly differently than other star bosses, and in my opinion have a more stable flight than similarly weighted opaque star bosses.

Hey Dave,

Cound you go into a little detail about the first run star bosses that are pretty see-through? I'm interested in knowing a little more about the mix of plastics you used, and stabilities.

These fly differently than other star bosses, and in my opinion have a more stable flight than similarly weighted opaque star bosses.

Sorry, I'm not sure which you are referring to. Are they softer, domier, or different is some other descriptive way?

I guess there is no discernable differences between the two other than the flight plate being completely see-thru. No one is more domey or soft, actually... the translucent flight plate star bosses may be stiffer.

would that help?
Thanks!
Trey

I guess there is no discernable differences between the two other than the flight plate being completely see-thru. No one is more domey or soft, actually... the translucent flight plate star bosses may be stiffer.

would that help?
Thanks!
Trey

It might be a transition between Champion and Star or it might have been made with the enhanced stability plastic we now use with Champion. Generally we try to make Star a little softer and less over stable.

Hey Dave,
The more I play with my stabalized nightshift Orc the more I think this is the closest plastic I've seen to the early run CE plastic. The disc is stiffer than the nightshift destoyers and bosses (or any star for that matter) and a darker opaque blue. Did you do anything different with these specifically? If you could reproduce this I honestly think you could bring back CE plastic. Does anyone else think the same? Or am I off my rocker? Wouldn't be the first time.

Hey Dave,
The more I play with my stabalized nightshift Orc the more I think this is the closest plastic I've seen to the early run CE plastic. The disc is stiffer than the nightshift destoyers and bosses (or any star for that matter) and a darker opaque blue. Did you do anything different with these specifically? If you could reproduce this I honestly think you could bring back CE plastic. Does anyone else think the same? Or am I off my rocker? Wouldn't be the first time.

We ran those about the same as the stabilized Champion Bosses. Other than them truly being more stable, I haven't heard much.

Dave...are you playing in the worlds this year?

Bart Zandstra

wwwDiscGolfFlyMart.com

Dave...are you playing in the worlds this year?

Bart Zandstra

wwwDiscGolfFlyMart.com

Yes, I will. I am looking forward to playing on the Kansas City courses again.

how do a champion Destroyer and a pro Destroyer compare in regards to flight. Is one more over stable than the other?

how do a champion Destroyer and a pro Destroyer compare in regards to flight. Is one more over stable than the other?

I don't know if I am the right one to answer this question at this time, but originally, the Pro was more high speed stable. Now, I believe they are about the same high speed, with the Champion having a little more low speed over stability. I don't throw either of these myself, (except for a Pro lately I have been testing). I throw Star, which is a little less hss than either in higher weights.

how do a champion Destroyer and a pro Destroyer compare in regards to flight. Is one more over stable than the other?

I find the Champs to be more stable threw out the flight

Dave,

Any plans to run the Classic Roc in Champion plastic again???

What is the best way to beat in star and champion plastic cuz i know it takes a while for it to happen

What is the best way to beat in star and champion plastic cuz i know it takes a while for it to happen
Tumble dry (no heat) in a pillow case. Or use the disc alot. I prefer the latter.

Dave , why do you play in the open division at Worlds?

(Psssst. He's entered in Sr GM this year :))

Dave , why do you play in the open division at Worlds?


I haven't played Open for the last two. I used to play Open to get a better look at the Open talent. I have lost a bit of distance and I can't really keep up any more.

Dave,
I recently acquired a Star plastic disc with a 2006 Bowling Green Open stamp that is labled SWP. It is not a Whippet (the wing is too wide) Do you have any idea what it might be? As always, thanks for your time.

Probably a wraith and the WR looked like a WP.

Probably a wraith and the WR looked like a WP.

That sounds like a good guess to me.

Thanks Dave and Dave! Yes, It is a Wraith. I guess my coffee hadn't kicked in yet. After I posted my early question I thought I bet it is a Wraith. A quick look confirmed this. Thanks again.

Dave-- In your testing of the pro boss, did you find it to be as (over)stable as a new pro destroyer?
thanks

It might be a transition between Champion and Star or it might have been made with the enhanced stability plastic we now use with Champion. Generally we try to make Star a little softer and less over stable.

First of all, is there any way to tell if my Champion plastic discs are of the enhanced stability runs? I throw quite a few and they all seem pretty standard/similar to DX.

Secondly, is the Star Boss the exception to "less overstable" in Star plastic? I've got a few Champion Bosses from different runs and one 168 Star Boss and the Star Boss flies like an M1 Abrams. On a throw that I normally get 420-450 feet out of a Champion Boss, the Star boss will fade out hard at about 150 to 200 feet. It's actually replaced my Star Max for a lot of hard curving shots. Every time I used the Star Boss in the round I played yesterday the disc "tomb stoned" (half buried in the ground, sticking straight up) no matter how I threw it.

Dave-- In your testing of the pro boss, did you find it to be as (over)stable as a new pro destroyer?
thanks

I guess senility is kicking in. I don't remember testing Pro Bosses. Just R-Pro.
But, I would imagine they are just as over stable. All the parameters are they same except one, and it shouldn't affect that adversely.

First of all, is there any way to tell if my Champion plastic discs are of the enhanced stability runs? I throw quite a few and they all seem pretty standard/similar to DX.

Secondly, is the Star Boss the exception to "less overstable" in Star plastic? I've got a few Champion Bosses from different runs and one 168 Star Boss and the Star Boss flies like an M1 Abrams. On a throw that I normally get 420-450 feet out of a Champion Boss, the Star boss will fade out hard at about 150 to 200 feet. It's actually replaced my Star Max for a lot of hard curving shots. Every time I used the Star Boss in the round I played yesterday the disc "tomb stoned" (half buried in the ground, sticking straight up) no matter how I threw it.

No, at this point I don't know how to tell if you have enhanced stability Champion or not, but that is what we have been making in fast drivers.

As for the Star Bosses: they are the exception to the general rule about Champion being more stable than Star in lighter weights. Lighter weight Star Bosses are made with a different process than the heavy weights. This process does add more stability. It affects weights from 165g (usually x parts) to 171g. 172g to 175 should not be affected and therefore should be slightly less stable in Star. At some point, we will use this process to get Star Destroyers and Star Wraiths down in weight too. We believe we can get Star Destroyers down to 165gs successfully and Star Wraiths down to 162gs.

Dave,

R-Pro Hydras.
How did the decision come to make this disc?

pages prior, you referred to pro bosses as new tester you were trying. Do you guys plan on making a regular (non-R) Pro Boss?
thanks

Dave,

R-Pro Hydras.
How did the decision come to make this disc?

Making DX Hydras was a nightmare. These are easier to make, look better, the plastic feels better.

pages prior, you referred to pro bosses as new tester you were trying. Do you guys plan on making a regular (non-R) Pro Boss?
thanks

We will at some point in time. Several of our touring pros have said it is their favorite plastic.

Dave,

Any plans to run the Classic Roc in Champion plastic again???

The Champion Classic Roc was part of the CFR program a few years back, but are not on the current list. I have 3 left from a tourney then if you need one. PM if you like.

Dave
I have a dyed pro Classic Roc from a few years ago, have you considered a run of Pro this year???

The Champion Classic Roc was part of the CFR program a few years back, but are not on the current list. I have 3 left from a tourney then if you need one. PM if you like.

Dave
I have a dyed pro Classic Roc from a few years ago, have you considered a run of Pro this year???

The Classic Roc is not currently on our schedule, so any Champion or Pro will have to wait.

Dave-Thanks. The pro destroyer is my favorite long driver. I personally need the grip of pro in such a wide-rimmed driver. Looking forward to the pro Boss. any idea on when we may see it?
thanks

Dave-Thanks. The pro destroyer is my favorite long driver. I personally need the grip of pro in such a wide-rimmed driver. Looking forward to the pro Boss. any idea on when we may see it?
thanks


The Pro Boss is currently available here: http://www.primediscs.com/proddetail.asp?prod=boss-pro-09vo&cat=122

thanks--I think I will wait till the production run. they only have heavy black ones.

Will the dart come out in any other plastic besides R-Pro?

Will the dart come out in any other plastic besides R-Pro?

Next run of Darts, we will experiment with a Soft Star. We will also try a stiffer grippy R-Pro. Not sure about DX.

Dave,

I am, like many others, a big fan of the dark green eco plastic. recently you ran a batch of wraiths in the dark green and I got a hold of a couple of those and they are SO SWEET (i dont even think calling them wraiths is fair, but they are... and so stable).

i also got one of the destroyers that were done in a little lighter green plastic, also very good, really fast.

my question is... will we ever see some other molds in the dark green star eco plastic?

Personally, I would love to see firebirds and teebirds made with the dark stuff, is this a possibility? I know I'm not the only one who loves this plastic... there is a definite market for it.

Thanks

Dave,

I am, like many others, a big fan of the dark green eco plastic. recently you ran a batch of wraiths in the dark green and I got a hold of a couple of those and they are SO SWEET (i dont even think calling them wraiths is fair, but they are... and so stable).

i also got one of the destroyers that were done in a little lighter green plastic, also very good, really fast.

my question is... will we ever see some other molds in the dark green star eco plastic?

Personally, I would love to see firebirds and teebirds made with the dark stuff, is this a possibility? I know I'm not the only one who loves this plastic... there is a definite market for it.

Thanks

Yes we will be making Echo Star in many of our molds at one time or another. Green is only one of several colors of Echo Star.

Dave, I second the request for Eco Teebirds and Firebirds. Please and thank you.

Dave, I second the request for Eco Teebirds and Firebirds. Please and thank you.

Both of these are on the "to do" list.

are the new production run of r-pro bosses stiff or soft?

Both of these are on the "to do" list.


Tremendous. Once they are produced, how can I get my hands on a couple of each? Will they be available for stamping, or do they just get shipped to distributors/TDs on a first come-first served basis?

Dave,

What are the differences, if any, of the Innova made Millenium Sirius OLF and the Discmania PD? They look and feel almost the same.

Thanks as always!

are the new production run of r-pro bosses stiff or soft?

They are not soft like the putters and mids, but they are softer than most drivers. Definitely not stiff.

Tremendous. Once they are produced, how can I get my hands on a couple of each? Will they be available for stamping, or do they just get shipped to distributors/TDs on a first come-first served basis?

I'm not sure what the ultimate distribution will be at this point, but some of them will be available for custom hotstamping. I believe some will be available with a new Echo Star stamp, but don't hold me to that.

Dave,

What are the differences, if any, of the Innova made Millenium Sirius OLF and the Discmania PD? They look and feel almost the same.

Thanks as always!

The Discmania PD is more high speed stable and should feel and look different on the flight plate. It has more meat on the top toward the rim for a better side arm grip.

The Millennium OLF is better for straight shots, down wind distance, long hyzers, and forced turn overs. The Discmania PD is better into the wind, power shots, and side arms.

Dave,

The TL is a great disc. I've heard some people say the TL stands for T-Bird Long, thus it is a longer T-Bird. I've heard others say it stands for T-Bird Leopard meaning it is a hybrid between a T-Bird and a Leopard. Can you shed some light on exactly what the TL stands for?

Also I've just got my hands on the Star Whippet X ... it is MONEY!

Leopard Bottom! :)

Its for "less stable/longer"

Its not a leopard bottom. The leo has a notch on the wing all the L molds are flat winged.

Its for "less stable/longer"

Its not a leopard bottom. The leo has a notch on the wing all the L molds are flat winged.

This is correct.

Dave-

What's the deal with the Stingray? I just got two 180 DX Stingrays in the mail. Both are the www version of the bottom.

One is the same as my older ones with a sharp bottom lip with a bit of flash. The other one has a small bead on it. (It also is marked SR on the bottom instead of ST)

What's the deal? (I haven't thrown it yet as, like my two stingrays, the animals are lining up in pairs here...)

Dave-

What's the deal with the Stingray? I just got two 180 DX Stingrays in the mail. Both are the www version of the bottom.

One is the same as my older ones with a sharp bottom lip with a bit of flash. The other one has a small bead on it. (It also is marked SR on the bottom instead of ST)

What's the deal? (I haven't thrown it yet as, like my two stingrays, the animals are lining up in pairs here...)

The flash on the older part was taken care of with a replacement part that appears to have a tiny bead.

The ST and SR have both been used for Stingrays. We used SR when we were using ST for the Stinger we were making for Ching. I looked up what we were using now, and apparently it is back to ST. I didn't get the memo. Apparently, one or more of our molders didn't either. Thanks for pointing that out.

Recent testing of the DX Stingrays has proven them to be a bit more stable when new. They do break in over time to produce the nice slow turn that you expect with a Stingray.

Cool... the bead is really small, so I can see how it won't last very long, and really it does make the disc look more finished without the flash if I were looking at them on a rack...

Dave -- today I was holding two Champ Sidewinders in my hand, and noticed one looked normal, and the other had a tall nose. Looked like it had an "X" spacer, like the TR-X or GT-X.

This was most interesting to me because I am of the belief that the Orion LS is a modified Sidewinder, basically a Sidewinder-X with a spacer in the nose to beef up the OLS.

So when I saw this different Sidewinder, it immediately looked to me like a Champion/Quantum Orion LS.

Can you shed any light on this? Was the Sidewinder ever modified like this? Is my observation of the mold similarities accurate?

Lots of people would love to have a QOLS, and it has never been given the go-ahead by Millennium. If there really are some Champ Sidewinder-X out there, it would be huge to many folks.

.... and here's a request for a Star Cheetah and Star Gazelle :)

Thanks Dave for your time

Got this this morning from Mark Molner at Discgolfvalues.com

"Innova has just added some limited release candy fund raising program discs to the line up. Disc Golf Values will be helping to raise money for the 2009 Duos Duel in the Desert being held in Las Vegas. To lead the list the disc I have had the most requests for a Champion material glow in the dark Whippet X, also glow in the dark Champion material Cobras, glow in the dark Champion material Grooves, glow in the dark DX San Marino Rocs and a few other special Rubber Wood discs."

of course the Whippets are already sold out and and already popping up on ebay.

My question is where is the East Coast love Dave? What does one have to do to be able to get Innova to make a special run of out of production discs? Or more-over what is Mark doing to be able to get all of these special run discs for all of the West Coast tournaments?

Dave -- today I was holding two Champ Sidewinders in my hand, and noticed one looked normal, and the other had a tall nose. Looked like it had an "X" spacer, like the TR-X or GT-X.

This was most interesting to me because I am of the belief that the Orion LS is a modified Sidewinder, basically a Sidewinder-X with a spacer in the nose to beef up the OLS.

So when I saw this different Sidewinder, it immediately looked to me like a Champion/Quantum Orion LS.

Can you shed any light on this? Was the Sidewinder ever modified like this? Is my observation of the mold similarities accurate?

Lots of people would love to have a QOLS, and it has never been given the go-ahead by Millennium. If there really are some Champ Sidewinder-X out there, it would be huge to many folks.

.... and here's a request for a Star Cheetah and Star Gazelle :)

Thanks Dave for your time



The Sidewinder was not modified like this. Your observations are sort of correct, but there are other models that are similar to the Sidewinder, including the Valkyrie, Roadrunner, Viking, OLF, OLS and to a further extent the Discmania CD and PD. All are different from each other but similar in some ways - such as the width of the nose.

The closest thing to a Q-OLS would be the Champion Viking.

Got this this morning from Mark Molner at Discgolfvalues.com

"Innova has just added some limited release candy fund raising program discs to the line up. Disc Golf Values will be helping to raise money for the 2009 Duos Duel in the Desert being held in Las Vegas. To lead the list the disc I have had the most requests for a Champion material glow in the dark Whippet X, also glow in the dark Champion material Cobras, glow in the dark Champion material Grooves, glow in the dark DX San Marino Rocs and a few other special Rubber Wood discs."

of course the Whippets are already sold out and and already popping up on ebay.

My question is where is the East Coast love Dave? What does one have to do to be able to get Innova to make a special run of out of production discs? Or more-over what is Mark doing to be able to get all of these special run discs for all of the West Coast tournaments?

The Glow Champion Cobra, Glow Champion Groove and Glow Champion Whippet X are all available in the CFR program. I believe the DX Glow San Marino is available for custom stamping. East Coast should already have all these models in stock except the Champion Whippet-X.

The Champion Whippet-X was just produced this week at the West Coast location. Mark/discgolfvalues was gracious enough to put these on his site for Duos in the Desert. Mark does not "get" these discs. The events get the discs and ask Mark to sell their discs on his website for them. The events profit from these CFR sales, not Discgolfvalues.

East Coast NT's and larger events also get access to special models. This year, Vibram Open got a special run of Pro Bosses.

Mark is also "gracious" enough to make us buy r-pro xcals (even if we don't want them) in order to get a r-pro boss 168-9, and 2 of the xcals if we want one r-pro boss in 170. I realize this is not your deal Dave, but it just seems like a lame way to force sales of the r-pro xcal.

Mark is also "gracious" enough to make us buy r-pro xcals (even if we don't want them) in order to get a r-pro boss 168-9, and 2 of the xcals if we want one r-pro boss in 170. I realize this is not your deal Dave, but it just seems like a lame way to force sales of the r-pro xcal.

I will ask Mark about this marketing. We (Innova) are not marketing the R-Pro XCals or any R-Pro Bosses above 164g as we don't think they are durable enough. We feel that people would be better off with the Star, Champion, or Pro in heavier weights. The R-Pro doesn't hold up well to impact, especially in the higher weights. You don't get the spectacular flights in the higher weights either.

Hey Dave,

I just got some 11x Teebirds at a tournament that are creamy white / opaque. I was wondering if you knew based on the level of opaque if this was the last run of 11x before the 12x started?

Reason I wanted to know was because, if they share more similarities with the 12x Teebirds than regular 11x (the only ones I have are pretty much 100% translucent) then I'd be inclined to continue the hunt for my perfect fairway drivers.

Hey Dave,

I just got some 11x Teebirds at a tournament that are creamy white / opaque. I was wondering if you knew based on the level of opaque if this was the last run of 11x before the 12x started?

Reason I wanted to know was because, if they share more similarities with the 12x Teebirds than regular 11x (the only ones I have are pretty much 100% translucent) then I'd be inclined to continue the hunt for my perfect fairway drivers.

Sorry, I can't help you with this.

Hey Dave -- today I saw some nice flat 12x-stamp Champ Firebirds. Firstly, hooray!

Is this a new run I was seeing? It didn't look like any other 12x I've seen. I was looking at a small sampling, maybe 12, of these around 173g+ ... all of them shared this characteristic of being closer to the 11x form than the domey run of 12x.

Lots of people would be overjoyed if this is a new, flatter run. 11x Champ FB have become extremely valuable, and the budget option for a flat Firebird is the less durable and less firm Star FB. I'd love to have readily-available flat Champs again.

Thanks!

Hey Dave -- today I saw some nice flat 12x-stamp Champ Firebirds. Firstly, hooray!

Is this a new run I was seeing? It didn't look like any other 12x I've seen. I was looking at a small sampling, maybe 12, of these around 173g+ ... all of them shared this characteristic of being closer to the 11x form than the domey run of 12x.

Lots of people would be overjoyed if this is a new, flatter run. 11x Champ FB have become extremely valuable, and the budget option for a flat Firebird is the less durable and less firm Star FB. I'd love to have readily-available flat Champs again.

Thanks!

None of these is from a new run. They could possibly be from an older run that was passed over until recently. There is a new run scheduled in the near future and we will do what we can to make them as flat as possible. There are several ways to take an ordinary Firebird and make it flatter also. Of course the danger of this is either taking the disc out of compliance with PDGA specs, over flatting, or warping and ruining the disc. Probably the easiest way to flatten a Firebird is to place it on a flat counter top and fill it with hot water. If this is insufficient, you can add a little weight to the disc by covering it with a pot lid or something. Don't over do it, as you might ruin the disc. Sometimes hot stamping will flatten a top. And the full color process offered on the East coast will definitely flatten it.

I don't really understand why people think flatter is better unless they are throwing overheads.

I don't really understand why people think flatter is better unless they are throwing overheads.


I think that the main reason flatter is better is because all of us have learned using flat Firebirds. A flat Firebird is ridiculously overstable and of great utility. No other disc flies (or doesn't fly) quite like it. I think the domier Firebird has more glide and less HSS and tends to overlap with other faster, overstable, long range drivers. The dome also gets bullied by the wind a little more and is less forgiving for ugly forehand OAT.

So the domey Firebird is a fine disc, its just not the same disc we have come to love and trust.

Dave,

I see on the Innova website that you all have the Beast listed as 10/5/-2/2. I seem to recall the glide was a 4 when it originally came out. Have you tweaked the mold? Does it really have more glide than a Valkyrie?

Thanks,

YDGH

As of right now, the Full Color process is not being offered on the East Coast.

I think that the main reason flatter is better is because all of us have learned using flat Firebirds. A flat Firebird is ridiculously overstable and of great utility. No other disc flies (or doesn't fly) quite like it. I think the domier Firebird has more glide and less HSS and tends to overlap with other faster, overstable, long range drivers. The dome also gets bullied by the wind a little more and is less forgiving for ugly forehand OAT.

So the domey Firebird is a fine disc, its just not the same disc we have come to love and trust.


This is a really good answer. I completely understand from this point of view. Thank you.

The Glow Champion Cobra, Glow Champion Groove and Glow Champion Whippet X are all available in the CFR program. I believe the DX Glow San Marino is available for custom stamping. East Coast should already have all these models in stock except the Champion Whippet-X.

The Champion Whippet-X was just produced this week at the West Coast location. Mark/discgolfvalues was gracious enough to put these on his site for Duos in the Desert. Mark does not "get" these discs. The events get the discs and ask Mark to sell their discs on his website for them. The events profit from these CFR sales, not Discgolfvalues.

East Coast NT's and larger events also get access to special models. This year, Vibram Open got a special run of Pro Bosses.


Gracious enough? I think if you ask anyone that runs a DISC GOLF ONLY BRICK AND MORTAR STOREFRONT that isnt allowed the ability to set up other stores ( Which is complete BS ) they would love the opportunity to get discs at PRE RELEASE and WOULD BUY CFRS from other tourneys simply for the extra business.

Marks a good guy and I have done a fair share of business with him, but cmon. Its more than "love for the east coast" how about some love for the people working to keep your product on Top? How about me not losing business ALL THE TIME from someone that has discs days before anyone on the EAST coast will even get them? I like to sell things on Ebay and help other events by selling thier hard to get plastic, especially when its all going for premiums. That would be a welcomed relief from the CFR program thats full of discs that selll slow.

Dave,

I see on the Innova website that you all have the Beast listed as 10/5/-2/2. I seem to recall the glide was a 4 when it originally came out. Have you tweaked the mold? Does it really have more glide than a Valkyrie?

Thanks,

YDGH

We changed the glide for some reason that might have been related to a change in the rating system. (Using a wider spread of numbers). Or it might have been related to the early tweaking of the Beast from a more Orc like disc.

Regardless, the glide of discs in a vertical orientation comparison between different speed levels, (speed 10 vs speed 9) isn't as accurate as the glide comparisons within the same speed level.

Also, glide is a tricky trait to assign a number to anyway. Many times discs within the same speed level are given higher glide numbers because of their turning characteristic. They don't actually have more "lift", but they do glide and fly better because of the turn which helps orient them in a better aerodynamic position with respect to glide.

Of course, lighter discs have more glide than heavy ones even though the "lift" is the same.

hi, so is the glow whippet x going to be available from now on or just for the duel in the desert as cfr? I read that the cobra and groove would be, but I wasn't sure about the whippet. Thanks

I've purchased many cfr discs from discdolfvalues, and I never get a card to fill out for sponsorship rewards. They are tournament fundraisers so they should come with the card right?

hi, so is the glow whippet x going to be available from now on or just for the duel in the desert as cfr? I read that the cobra and groove would be, but I wasn't sure about the whippet. Thanks

The Glow Whippet X will be available also.

I've purchased many cfr discs from discdolfvalues, and I never get a card to fill out for sponsorship rewards. They are tournament fundraisers so they should come with the card right?

Not all fundraising discs are cfr. The cfr discs should come with a certificate. Discs like R-Wood or R-Pro Bosses are not cfr discs.

Hi Dave,

I recently found 3 San Marino mold really hard, stiff Aviar Putters. They had a Lavone Wolfe Rocket City Chain Gang stamp on them.

After comparing them to some very old DX Aviars I had, they appear to be slightly taller with a different bottom. When comparing to new 12 X KC Pro Aviars, they have a slightly different bottom half.

I have had a local pro suggest that they are 10 X KC Pro Aviars, but no one has one locally to compare them to.

Were the 10 X Aviars a slightly different mold than the current production runs?


On A Side Note, to dispell a myth for all of you Star Boss fans, we ran a test of the East Coast vs West Coast Star Bosses (Boxed Ratings vs Slashed Ratings stamps) and if you grab a domey star boss, they are both extremely overstable like some suped up hot-rodded whippet-x.

if they are flat, they both slide and flip like the 1st run star stamped champ bosses.

We had 5 of each type boss. 5 East Coast Domey, 5 West Coast Domey, 5 East Coast Flat, 5 West Coast Flat. All were thrown on a flat trajectory and by people who can throw atleast 400 feet with a flat straight shot.

Hope this helps you on your next boss purchase.

Dave, I know there has been a couple test runs of at least 2 types of material beadless rhynos. First, what do the testers say about them overall, and second are they slated to be made?

I have 2 of the Star material ones and am not sure whether to putt or collect!

Hi Dave,

I recently found 3 San Marino mold really hard, stiff Aviar Putters. They had a Lavone Wolfe Rocket City Chain Gang stamp on them.

After comparing them to some very old DX Aviars I had, they appear to be slightly taller with a different bottom. When comparing to new 12 X KC Pro Aviars, they have a slightly different bottom half.

I have had a local pro suggest that they are 10 X KC Pro Aviars, but no one has one locally to compare them to.

Were the 10 X Aviars a slightly different mold than the current production runs?


Periodically the molds are cleaned up, or get new parts, and that could account for the difference. I don't think either of the original Aviar molds says San Marino any more.

Dave, I know there has been a couple test runs of at least 2 types of material beadless rhynos. First, what do the testers say about them overall, and second are they slated to be made?

I have 2 of the Star material ones and am not sure whether to putt or collect!

The beadless Rhynos worked as we thought. It was essentially a Rhyno with less low speed over stability. These have not been slated for production.

Dave,

Are there any plans to run any more Night Shift Bosses? These are the closest thing to a faster Teebird I've ever thrown. My first one is getting seasoned and its even seasoning like a Teebird, not quite as good in the wind, but close.

dgdave - you don't think the Discmania DD is a faster Teebird?

dgdave - you don't think the Discmania DD is a faster Teebird?

Nope. Didn't fight the wind or have the LSS the TB does. The original Teerex was close. I've heard thr PD is close and I've got 4 coming tomorrow to test out. I'll definately report back.

That said, the DD is a great disc that bombs.

Dave,

Are there any plans to run any more Night Shift Bosses? These are the closest thing to a faster Teebird I've ever thrown. My first one is getting seasoned and its even seasoning like a Teebird, not quite as good in the wind, but close.

We don't have any plans to run more "Night Shift" Bosses. The new Champion Bosses are being run in the stabilizing formula. The Star Bosses are not. The light Star Bosses are being stabilized by a different process that affects 169g and down. So, if you are looking for stable, try Champion or a lighter Star Boss. If you want mellow, try heavier Star Boss.

Was there a different quality you were looking for?

The DD definitely bombs. I asked because in my opinion the DD holds a line better than a Boss - although I have never had the luxury of throwing a Night Shift Boss. Also, I like the fact that the DD does not finish as hard or skips as much as the Boss.

Isn't the Night Shift Boss supposed to be more HSS than a regular Boss?

We don't have any plans to run more "Night Shift" Bosses. The new Champion Bosses are being run in the stabilizing formula. The Star Bosses are not. The light Star Bosses are being stabilized by a different process that affects 169g and down. So, if you are looking for stable, try Champion or a lighter Star Boss. If you want mellow, try heavier Star Boss.

Was there a different quality you were looking for?

They seem much more stable and not overstable, hold a line much longer before hyzering off, and lock into a line. The light Star and heavy DF CHamps all seem to hyzer off early and are hard to flip up with any tailwind. The heavy bosses have a lot more movement to their flight than what I like on golf lines. I like a Teebird type flight. Give it a slight hyzer and it pops to flat for a long time then a predictable fade.

Isn't the Night Shift Boss supposed to be more HSS than a regular Boss?

Domey is where the stability is at in a Boss with domey star being even more overstable.

The flat bosses all want to slide or S somewhat.

I have 4 of each in the bag, 2 domey star/champ and 2 flat star/champ.

Just curious why there are no I-dye Star plastic? I've got a lot of customers I think would love to have some dyed Teerex, Destroyers, X-cals, Maxes, ect.

Hey Dave, does a dome really make a disc more stable? Or does it have something to do with the wing? I prefer flat discs because they feel better in my hand and don't seem to get pushed around in the wind as much. But I have heard a lot of people say that domes make discs stable, but have not noticed it myself. thanks!

We don't have any plans to run more "Night Shift" Bosses. The new Champion Bosses are being run in the stabilizing formula. The Star Bosses are not. The light Star Bosses are being stabilized by a different process that affects 169g and down. So, if you are looking for stable, try Champion or a lighter Star Boss. If you want mellow, try heavier Star Boss.

Was there a different quality you were looking for?


Dave,

Based on what you're saying here, a 172g star driver would be less stable than a 167g star driver?

You can't just say, "Flat discs are more/less stable"

Before the Destroyer and other wide wing drivers, the flatter were more "stable" That is why people seek 11x Firebirds which are more flat.

With new high speed discs, the domier ones are more "stable." This is true in destroyers, x cals and so on.

Not all lighter 167g Star plastic is more stable, just on the Bosses because of how they were molded/made.

Just curious why there are no I-dye Star plastic? I've got a lot of customers I think would love to have some dyed Teerex, Destroyers, X-cals, Maxes, ect.

It was decided by our sales force, that the I-dye worked better and looked more vibrant on Champion as opposed to Star.