different as in more stable? - or how?

June product update possibly for the release?

No release date scheduled and no run date scheduled yet. Stability was not changed, hopefully just consistency, but we won't know until we run them.

Hey Dave - How about a small batch of Star or Champion Wolfs for the Factor Store? And gummy ones, please!

Hey Dave - How about a small batch of Star or Champion Wolfs for the Factor Store? And gummy ones, please!

We tried it a few years ago. They didn't fly right. Too stable.

Dave

Could you settle a little debate we are having? Someone is trying to say that a 130 class blizzard destroyer will be more stable than a 150 class blizzard boss, or teedevil, or wraith. They are quoting you as saying this and I can't find where. Thanks in advance. Jamie

Would love to see how Blizzard versions of the Valkyrie, Eagle, Teebird, TL, PD, Banshee, etc., would turn out. Are there any plans to run narrower rimmed molds in Blizzard?

Not to answer for Dave, but 150 Champion Valkyries, Banshees, TeeBirds, Sidewinders, Eagles and Firebirds have been stock discs for many years. Not all of them are currently in stock. With the exception of the Banshee and Firebird, I think they have run all those molds in 150 Star also.

Dave

Could you settle a little debate we are having? Someone is trying to say that a 130 class blizzard destroyer will be more stable than a 150 class blizzard boss, or teedevil, or wraith. They are quoting you as saying this and I can't find where. Thanks in advance. Jamie

So far, the Destroyer Blizzards have been the most stable. Also, generally as the weight goes down, the stablility does too. It might be that a 137gm Blizzard Destroyer is more stable than a 149g Blizzard Boss, TeeDevil or Wraith, but I wouldn't count on it every time. Sometimes the weird happens and 130gm Katanas are more stable than Destroyers.

Would love to see how Blizzard versions of the Valkyrie, Eagle, Teebird, TL, PD, Banshee, etc., would turn out. Are there any plans to run narrower rimmed molds in Blizzard?


We have a test coming up on Roadrunners. There is a point of diminishing returns for Blizzard vs DX for the slower models. People who don't throw far or fast also don't destroy their discs as fast as the Ape arms. Additionally, the biggest bang for the buck involves the faster discs that can still penetrate at lighter weights. Slower discs are more efficient at heavier weights than faster discs.

What weight and speed for what particular wind condition, disc, and thrower style and power is varied. The Ape arms won't benefit at all throwing up wind, but will down wind. Others, who can't generate full speed with maximum weight might benefit upwind and down by the additional acceleration and glide they get both up wind (up to a point) and downwind (infinite). YMMV

Thanks Dave

Dave
I want to admit that; I really just don't understand!!!!
I fell in love with your Blizzard Katanas. I bought my first one (143 g Katana). This disc totally turned my game around. I searched until i found another 143 Katana. it happened to be the exact same color and flew exactly the same as the first one. Therefore i have been searching for any blizzard Katanas in the 140g range. There are none to be found. I have even called about 10 disc suppliers and they are saying they have many in the 130s and 150s none in the 140s. well i decided I'd try a lighter one. 136g to be exact. this is a totally different disc! all bubbles are in the rim (my others have them in rim and flight plate. the 140s give me the lazy "S" everyone wants for distance. I can't flip this one into a head wind. flies so stable for me that it is useless to me.
Please inform me as to why all disc manfactures seem to change things from their first run to their second. why are the bubbles taken out of the flight plate? why are the new ones sooooo much more domey than the ones i have? every Katana i have seen sense my two are sooo different than the first ones that came out. i am still looking for a new one in the 140s and would really like to find one with the bubbles throughout the disc. if you make a perfect product why change it?!?!?!?!? please help me to understand. Im not really complaining just wanting to understand.

thanks for your time

Jimmy

Dave
I want to admit that; I really just don't understand!!!!
I fell in love with your Blizzard Katanas. I bought my first one (143 g Katana). This disc totally turned my game around. I searched until i found another 143 Katana. it happened to be the exact same color and flew exactly the same as the first one. Therefore i have been searching for any blizzard Katanas in the 140g range. There are none to be found. I have even called about 10 disc suppliers and they are saying they have many in the 130s and 150s none in the 140s. well i decided I'd try a lighter one. 136g to be exact. this is a totally different disc! all bubbles are in the rim (my others have them in rim and flight plate. the 140s give me the lazy "S" everyone wants for distance. I can't flip this one into a head wind. flies so stable for me that it is useless to me.
Please inform me as to why all disc manfactures seem to change things from their first run to their second. why are the bubbles taken out of the flight plate? why are the new ones sooooo much more domey than the ones i have? every Katana i have seen sense my two are sooo different than the first ones that came out. i am still looking for a new one in the 140s and would really like to find one with the bubbles throughout the disc. if you make a perfect product why change it?!?!?!?!? please help me to understand. Im not really complaining just wanting to understand.

thanks for your time

Jimmy

Many others have the same questions you do. First, I don't know why you can't find any Katana in the 140s, other than your dealers are out.

The inconsistencies are due to the nature of the materials and molding variables. This happens much more with Blizzard than any other disc type. With Blizzard, it is very difficult to get consistent results from disc to disc coming out of the machine, let alone from batch to batch. Even the colors we use change the appearance of the Blizzard. I would like to say that we have mastered the Blizzard tech by now, but we haven't. We are doing our best and have purchased a new piece of equipment which we expect will help with this.

All this being said; whether there are bubbles in the flight plate or not, it doesn't affect the flight of the disc. A disc with only bubbles in the rim may be more or less stable or domier or flatter. All those characteristics vary independent of each other. You might try contacting Eric at the Innova Store and ask him for a specific type disc in a factory second.

Your 136g Katana may become more useful over time as you beat it in. Once you have seasoned this disc, it will be useful for a long time.

Dave,

Any news on the Pro Pig being run in the original plastic again (jk pro type)?

Thanks

Dave. I'm loving the Blizzard discs. I have found that because I had to concentrate on the release more, my 165-170g discs are now going around 10% further! (I know, you have that in your signature =-)

I am interested in the business side of things and have 2 questions that you may or may not feel like you can answer at this time...

Based on your previous posts, it sounds like the Blizzard process was quite difficult to get right. Is the process patented or protected for Innova in some way?

If so, will you license it to others? I can't imagine that the other companies are not trying to duplicate the success.

Dave,

Any news on the Pro Pig being run in the original plastic again (jk pro type)?

Thanks

Nothing yet.

Dave. I'm loving the Blizzard discs. I have found that because I had to concentrate on the release more, my 165-170g discs are now going around 10% further! (I know, you have that in your signature =-)

I am interested in the business side of things and have 2 questions that you may or may not feel like you can answer at this time...

Based on your previous posts, it sounds like the Blizzard process was quite difficult to get right. Is the process patented or protected for Innova in some way?

If so, will you license it to others? I can't imagine that the other companies are not trying to duplicate the success.

The process is not patented and I would be surprised if the other companies are not trying to duplicate it. The only protection is the difficulty in doing it.

The process is not patented and I would be surprised if the other companies are not trying to duplicate it. The only protection is the difficulty in doing it.

Well here's hoping for a good lead time so you can benefit from the work.

Hello Dave,

I just wondered about Discmania... Is there any new disc design coming up for Discmania?

Is CFR FD jackal already made ? if so, then will it be regular C-line on FD? Also I have KC pro material P2. Will it be regular ? Will it add big bead on next putter as P3?


THanks !

Hello Dave,

I just wondered about Discmania... Is there any new disc design coming up for Discmania?

Is CFR FD jackal already made ? if so, then will it be regular C-line on FD? Also I have KC pro material P2. Will it be regular ? Will it add big bead on next putter as P3?


THanks !

All of these questions should be addressed to Jussi. He makes all the decisions regarding Discmania. I am pretty sure that the big bead won't be added to make a P3, though.

Hey, Dave. Not a question, just a hat tip. No response required.

Kelsey is loving the 150 Blizzard Katanas, Destroyers and I think she is also throwing a TeeDevil. She got her first win in Men's Intermediate last weekend, playing two of the four rounds on a long open course. Used to be she could not compete on those courses with what was available in 150 Champion and Z drivers.

She's trying to shoot her way out of Men's Intermediate before the long, dark night of veterinary medical school sets in!

It's great to see the DX Ram at the Store. Is there any chance of having the Ram in Champ or STAR plastic?

Thanks
: ) :

It's great to see the DX Ram at the Store. Is there any chance of having the Ram in Champ or STAR plastic?

Thanks
: ) :

Yes, but not soon.

Is there any chance to have Banshee's in blizzard plastic?

Is there any chance to have Banshee's in blizzard plastic?

Possibly, but I am not sure what the point would be unless you were interested in a very light Champion Banshee. Banshees already go down to 150gms in Champion. A Monster or Max would make more sense to me personally.

Dave I have some questions involving the Krait. My kid just picked up a CFR Krait 175g. We went to test it out in the field and was surprised on how it flew. First i threw it flat, it went straight and at the end it took a very hard left. I then asked my son to throw it because I do not have the fastest/strongest arm and he has a much stronger throw. He threw it with a little hyzer, it flipped flat and at the end it took a extreme left. This brought out my curiosity so I went to disc golf review and read what others had to say about this disc. It appears others have had the same results, one guy even suggested the following numbers would match this diac better. 11,5,0,3.
I was just wondering if it could be just the CFR's and when they come out with the standard runs they would more match the current numbers? I love my Pro Wraiths and Archons and this disc should fit right inbetween them, I hope that maybe I and a few others just ended up with a very overstable one and that is not the norm.

Dave I have some questions involving the Krait. My kid just picked up a CFR Krait 175g. We went to test it out in the field and was surprised on how it flew. First i threw it flat, it went straight and at the end it took a very hard left. I then asked my son to throw it because I do not have the fastest/strongest arm and he has a much stronger throw. He threw it with a little hyzer, it flipped flat and at the end it took a extreme left. This brought out my curiosity so I went to disc golf review and read what others had to say about this disc. It appears others have had the same results, one guy even suggested the following numbers would match this diac better. 11,5,0,3.
I was just wondering if it could be just the CFR's and when they come out with the standard runs they would more match the current numbers? I love my Pro Wraiths and Archons and this disc should fit right inbetween them, I hope that maybe I and a few others just ended up with a very overstable one and that is not the norm.

I hope it is just the CFRs as our initial testing didn't fly that stable and the Blizzards, which will be released shortly are not that stable either. If it turns our that the heavier Champion just won't mold like the originals, we will do Star instead. Meanwhile, with the CFRs, they will just take more seasoning to get to where they should have been originally.

A question about S/DS destroyers:

I've heard all the stuff that it is just a different marking that is used and doesn't really matter but in my experience, any destroyer that I have thrown that has been marked S/DS on the back AND has had a marbled appearance has been very beefy.

1. Is there anything that would have made them that stable?

2. What causes the marble? And could it be a contributing factor to the stability?

Thanks

If you decide to patent the Blizzard thing, i know a good patent attorney. ;-)

Meanwhile, I have been enjoying the 150 Blizzard Destroyer lately for it's reliable fade, but I have not encountered any blizzard disc (including 130 Katanas) that make really good turnover discs for me, because they still fade back at the end. The only one that did not fade back for me was a blizzard teedevil that simply cannot be thrown (even as a spike hyzer) without turning into a roller. More recent teedevil runs seem MUCH more stable.

So I'm still looking for a good long range turnover driver, and I think the 165ish Mamba seems promising. What I'd like to know is if there are any plans to bring out blizzard Vulcans, or even blizzard Mambas. Anything planned yet to your knowledge?

A question about S/DS destroyers:

I've heard all the stuff that it is just a different marking that is used and doesn't really matter but in my experience, any destroyer that I have thrown that has been marked S/DS on the back AND has had a marbled appearance has been very beefy.

1. Is there anything that would have made them that stable?

2. What causes the marble? And could it be a contributing factor to the stability?

Thanks
The S D/S marking is irrelevant, but the marbling may not be. I don't know for a fact that the marbled discs are more stable in general, but it could be the case.

If you decide to patent the Blizzard thing, i know a good patent attorney. ;-)

Meanwhile, I have been enjoying the 150 Blizzard Destroyer lately for it's reliable fade, but I have not encountered any blizzard disc (including 130 Katanas) that make really good turnover discs for me, because they still fade back at the end. The only one that did not fade back for me was a blizzard teedevil that simply cannot be thrown (even as a spike hyzer) without turning into a roller. More recent teedevil runs seem MUCH more stable.

So I'm still looking for a good long range turnover driver, and I think the 165ish Mamba seems promising. What I'd like to know is if there are any plans to bring out blizzard Vulcans, or even blizzard Mambas. Anything planned yet to your knowledge?

Blizzard Vulcans will probably happen by the end of the year. Mambas already go down to 150s, so theres not that much point, especially with a flippy disc, but I wouldn't rule it out.

The S D/S marking is irrelevant, but the marbling may not be. I don't know for a fact that the marbled discs are more stable in general, but it could be the case.

I agree that the marking is irrelevant, except insofar as it can help you find a particular run or increase the likelihood that you have a particular run.

So, what causes the marbling and can it be replicated?

As far as the marbled destroyers I've seen they are all pretty stable, have a moderately high dome, and seem to be stiffer than some other runs of star destroyers. It would be awesome if they were all like that.

I agree that the marking is irrelevant, except insofar as it can help you find a particular run or increase the likelihood that you have a particular run.

So, what causes the marbling and can it be replicated?

As far as the marbled destroyers I've seen they are all pretty stable, have a moderately high dome, and seem to be stiffer than some other runs of star destroyers. It would be awesome if they were all like that.

The marbling is easily replicated, but the exact feeling and flight is not as easy. We can make discs that are purposefully flat, overstable, and marbled, like the Firebirds we are currently running. We are not really looking for overstable flat Destroyers so we use a different formula that hopefully gives us a stable, but not too overstable flight, especially in Star. We might make a run of Champion Destroyers a little more overstable. As far as consistency goes, we can only be as consistent as one batch of plastic. Once we order a new batch, it's a crap shoot.

Hey Dave!

There is some big demand around the Totem Stamped Teebirds that your son designed...

Any chance that this design could be recreated for a fundraiser run? Many of us collectors

out there would love to see more of these!!!

Hey Dave!

There is some big demand around the Totem Stamped Teebirds that your son designed...

Any chance that this design could be recreated for a fundraiser run? Many of us collectors

out there would love to see more of these!!!

Eric has been looking for stuff like that to put in the Factory Store. Give him a call or email. Be sure to mention what type of plastic as a retro stamp could could go on any plastic potentially.

Dave -

Thanks again for Blizzard!!! My 150g Blizzard Katanas were go-to distance discs last week at the Beaver State Fling. Very predictable flight, putting me out on the fairway past most of my competitors. Nearly all of the players in MG1 were throwing Blizzard discs, and those that didn't probably are from now on.

I received two other Blizzard discs just before the trip to Oregon. A 149g Blizzard DD2, which (once I figured it out) became a great hyzer-flip turnover disc, very useful on some of the long Milo holes. The second one, a 147g Blizzard Krait is crazy overstable and very nose-angle-sensitive. The only way I could get a decent flight out of it was with a heavy flex line. I might try it with the Bonopane grip to keep the nose down.

Also, many thanks for the Factory Store. It's a good way to get some specialty discs out to the players. I picked up a gummy Valk and 2-ring Aviar that I'm very pleased with.

Keep up the good work!

Allen

Also, I know you said that the Wolf didn't turn out well in Champion plastic, but can it be run in anything that has a softer feel to it? I love the mold, but almost all the Wolfs that I have found are run in a stiff DX. Maybe some Pro or R-Pro?

Also, how about a run of Gophers in a softer plastic? (Mmmmm...gummy champ Gophers...)

Also, I know you said that the Wolf didn't turn out well in Champion plastic, but can it be run in anything that has a softer feel to it? I love the mold, but almost all the Wolfs that I have found are run in a stiff DX. Maybe some Pro or R-Pro?

Also, how about a run of Gophers in a softer plastic? (Mmmmm...gummy champ Gophers...)

Pro might work. We could also make DX Wolfs a little softer and grippier.

Pro might work. We could also make DX Wolfs a little softer and grippier.

Pro would be great. A little softer/grippier and still great glide. I'd buy a stack.

Dave, would rw be an option for the wolf, or perhaps a flat leo in that plastic. :D

I noticed recently the newer KC pro plastic is softer than what I'm used to. Is that by design, or are you at the mercy of your plastic suppliers, as they change formulas to cut costs, for example? Have you ever thought about opening your own plastic manufacturing facility so you can control the formulation directly?

Dave, would rw be an option for the wolf, or perhaps a flat leo in that plastic. :D

Probably not for main distribution, but it could be something for the Store.

I noticed recently the newer KC pro plastic is softer than what I'm used to. Is that by design, or are you at the mercy of your plastic suppliers, as they change formulas to cut costs, for example? Have you ever thought about opening your own plastic manufacturing facility so you can control the formulation directly?

The plastic we order is exactly the same, so yes, we are at the mercy of the manufacturing facitlity.

We are way to small to have our own plastic manufacturing facility, but it would be nice.

Dave, Any time-frame on a Dominator release?

Hi Dave, I'm having trouble using the search tool -- sorry if this was addressed previously. Are the metal flake Champion Roadrunners only a cosmetic difference or are there any noted flight characteristic differences?

Also, to me personally Champion > or = to Star. While I do I prefer the grippiness of star, the champion seems more durable in that they break in slower and retain more stability over time... Is the extra price for Star due to the cost of material or ... ?

Dave, Any time-frame on a Dominator release?

We just started running them, so I would assume the beginning of August.

Hi Dave, I'm having trouble using the search tool -- sorry if this was addressed previously. Are the metal flake Champion Roadrunners only a cosmetic difference or are there any noted flight characteristic differences?

Also, to me personally Champion > or = to Star. While I do I prefer the grippiness of star, the champion seems more durable in that they break in slower and retain more stability over time... Is the extra price for Star due to the cost of material or ... ?

There are some anecdotal accounts of Metal Flake being a little more stable and my limited experience indicates the same. But, I am not prepared to say that it is a general trend at this point. I am just beginning to get to the point of throwing well enough to properly test these.

The extra price was due to several things, some of those, have gone away and they are priced closer than they used to be. Star is softer and grippier which dictates longer cycle times for Star. Our Champion used to be less grippy, but has gotten much better over the years. We are in the process of switching to a new Champion that seems to be even better for grip and appearance. That will put more pressure on the Star to be as grippy as possible. Look for Star to become softer and grippier in the future.

Dave,
I know this has been asked before, but any chance that Star XDs will be run any time soon? I have been looking for them and not having any luck any where. Please tell me the Factory Store will have them some time soon

There are some anecdotal accounts of Metal Flake being a little more stable and my limited experience indicates the same. But, I am not prepared to say that it is a general trend at this point. I am just beginning to get to the point of throwing well enough to properly test these.

The extra price was due to several things, some of those, have gone away and they are priced closer than they used to be. Star is softer and grippier which dictates longer cycle times for Star. Our Champion used to be less grippy, but has gotten much better over the years. We are in the process of switching to a new Champion that seems to be even better for grip and appearance. That will put more pressure on the Star to be as grippy as possible. Look for Star to become softer and grippier in the future.

The metal flake Roadrunner I picked up yesterday does seem a bit more stable, but I have not thrown it a lot yet. It also has very sweet grippiness (Not gummy but a bit towards that side of the continuum).

I have talked to a few people and there seems to be somewhat of a limited, anecdotal concensus that Star and Champ should be on equal price footing or maybe champion slightly more expensive, but that of course is from a user rather than a manufacturing perspective (and seems to be mainly based on a perceived superiority of champ in terms of durabilty and break-in resistance -- when it comes to grip and glide Star seems to have the edge). And, if Star costs more to make then a higher price point makes a lot of sense.

In your opinion, was there anything special about the Tulsa SB Orcs? The blue ones I have (and I have almost run out of them) seem even more durable than Champion and have the great grip and glide. They are the one Stars I have thrown which I find more desirable than Champion. Fortunately I have several pearly Champ Orcs which I love as well.

Any plans for a 30th anniversary Aviar? Maybe similar to the 20th anniversary limited edition ones -- or -- maybe just a common small added stamp for *all Aviar models* run for 2013 like "30th year anniversary". (Not sure if that would be easier than re-doing a whole hotstamp or if re-doing hotstamps is much of a cost...)

Thanks for your time and input -- it is spectacular what you do here!

Regarding the difference in hardness of plastic batches you receive, is it possible to add a little if the glow additives to harden them up a little? Or does the glo plastic come with the additives already in it?

Regarding the difference in hardness of plastic batches you receive, is it possible to add a little if the glow additives to harden them up a little? Or does the glo plastic come with the additives already in it?

Glo is a powder added.

Dear Dave,
You guys rock. Bubbles are sweet! Just ordered a dd2 hope it's nice. But what I really wanted to say was thank you sooo much for the champion zephyr. You just made my year!

The metal flake Roadrunner I picked up yesterday does seem a bit more stable, but I have not thrown it a lot yet. It also has very sweet grippiness (Not gummy but a bit towards that side of the continuum).

I have talked to a few people and there seems to be somewhat of a limited, anecdotal concensus that Star and Champ should be on equal price footing or maybe champion slightly more expensive, but that of course is from a user rather than a manufacturing perspective (and seems to be mainly based on a perceived superiority of champ in terms of durabilty and break-in resistance -- when it comes to grip and glide Star seems to have the edge). And, if Star costs more to make then a higher price point makes a lot of sense.

In your opinion, was there anything special about the Tulsa SB Orcs? The blue ones I have (and I have almost run out of them) seem even more durable than Champion and have the great grip and glide. They are the one Stars I have thrown which I find more desirable than Champion. Fortunately I have several pearly Champ Orcs which I love as well.

Any plans for a 30th anniversary Aviar? Maybe similar to the 20th anniversary limited edition ones -- or -- maybe just a common small added stamp for *all Aviar models* run for 2013 like "30th year anniversary". (Not sure if that would be easier than re-doing a whole hotstamp or if re-doing hotstamps is much of a cost...)

Thanks for your time and input -- it is spectacular what you do here!


YES !!!! Make it like the 2001 CE Version !!!! :D

Anyone notice that the DD2 in Blizzard is a turnover disc ?

Dave,

Can you tell us more about the upcoming release of Starlite discs? I know of the destroyers and bosses from the normal run of starlite, and they are very overstable, will the new release have the same characteristics?

Dave,

Can you tell us more about the upcoming release of Starlite discs? I know of the destroyers and bosses from the normal run of starlite, and they are very overstable, will the new release have the same characteristics?

I don't think so. We are using a different system this time. More like normal Blizzard, I think.

Dave,

Ever made (or thought about making) a Glow Classic Roc? It might be a nice little step up from the regular DX and I'm sure people would be interested.

Dave,

Ever made (or thought about making) a Glow Classic Roc? It might be a nice little step up from the regular DX and I'm sure people would be interested.

There are Star Classic Rocs available on the Proshop right now. Not glow, but premium plastic at any rate.

Dave,

Ever made (or thought about making) a Glow Classic Roc? It might be a nice little step up from the regular DX and I'm sure people would be interested.

I am sure we have done these before, but probably dont have any left, and we didn't think of it last time the mold was in. We will do them again at some point. Thanks for the suggestion.

Dave,
What's the stiffest plastic you're using? I'm looking for a disc that is LEAST LIKELY to distort.

Dave,
What's the stiffest plastic you're using? I'm looking for a disc that is LEAST LIKELY to distort.

KC Rocs and Putters

Hello Dave,

Another question about the Blizzard series.

So far I have a Blizzard Boss 154 which I really like for long consistent and predictable Hyzer shots. It is very stable to over stable. Then I bought a Blizzard Katana in a 154 and was starting to learn it and was throwing nice long "S" shots and then of course I lost it. I went and bought 2 more Blizzards a Wraith in a 150 which I am starting to learn as well and I think it will be a nice replacement for my lost Katana, and a Destroyer that has me baffled.

I also have a Champion Destroyer in a 172 and it has been a very predictable and stable to over stable power driver. I know it will finish with a fade to the left or I can Hyzer it more if need be. But this Blizzard Destroyer in a 150 is just crazy! It doesn't seem to matter how I throw it, but it turns over and anhyzers hard right indicating that it is very understable. A friend who is a bit better than me had the same experience. When we throw it, we laugh at the flight path as it just doesn't seem to behave like a stable to slightly over stable Destroyer should.

I have noticed that the bubbles are in the rim and not the dome like my Blizzard Boss and Katana were. The rim is also not very smooth with a rougher texture than any other disc I have. My Blizzard Wraith is similar but not as pronounced. Did I get a bad disc here? Of is there something else going on?

Many thanks,

Rick G

My blizzard destroyer is very overstable.

Dave, I just ordered a Starlite Roadrunner, I hope it flies very simular to the regular roadrunner, I will let you know how it works for me after I get it and do some field work with it.

My blizzard destroyer is very overstable.

My 158g Blizzard Destroyers fly almost exactly like my 170g Star Destroyers. Very stable and go a mile (well 400ft anyways) on a hyzer line -- never getting flat.

Hello Dave,

Another question about the Blizzard series.

So far I have a Blizzard Boss 154 which I really like for long consistent and predictable Hyzer shots. It is very stable to over stable. Then I bought a Blizzard Katana in a 154 and was starting to learn it and was throwing nice long "S" shots and then of course I lost it. I went and bought 2 more Blizzards a Wraith in a 150 which I am starting to learn as well and I think it will be a nice replacement for my lost Katana, and a Destroyer that has me baffled.

I also have a Champion Destroyer in a 172 and it has been a very predictable and stable to over stable power driver. I know it will finish with a fade to the left or I can Hyzer it more if need be. But this Blizzard Destroyer in a 150 is just crazy! It doesn't seem to matter how I throw it, but it turns over and anhyzers hard right indicating that it is very understable. A friend who is a bit better than me had the same experience. When we throw it, we laugh at the flight path as it just doesn't seem to behave like a stable to slightly over stable Destroyer should.

I have noticed that the bubbles are in the rim and not the dome like my Blizzard Boss and Katana were. The rim is also not very smooth with a rougher texture than any other disc I have. My Blizzard Wraith is similar but not as pronounced. Did I get a bad disc here? Of is there something else going on?

Many thanks,

Rick G

The 130s might be unpredictable but the 150 Destroyers should be pretty stable. I think you got a dud.

I have both a 145 and 148 Blizzard Destroyer and they both have a slow flip on me at release and then come back to a straight release. They fly very similar for me as does the Vulcan at 162, but the Vulcan is thrown with a hyzer release while the Destroyer's are thrown with a flat release. I love them this way. They are about 50-60 feet longer than my 168 Champion Destroyer because of the "S" flight.

Dave, tell your son THANKS

Anyone notice that the DD2 in Blizzard is a turnover disc ?

Yes, Tom, and I love it!

Seems to be very predictable and then falls back to the hyzer side at the end?
BTW, Dave is in Charolette now, may be a little slow on some answers here.
Alan, roadtrip searching for big animals ?

Dave,
I have been seeing some Star Whippet X's with the DX stamp around. Is this going to be a production disc I will be able to pick up at retailers at a normal price rather then an inflated ebay price? Also will we ever see runs of KC Pro Whippets again?

Dave,
I have been seeing some Star Whippet X's with the DX stamp around. Is this going to be a production disc I will be able to pick up at retailers at a normal price rather then an inflated ebay price? Also will we ever see runs of KC Pro Whippets again?

You can buy these at the Factory store or DGV

You can buy these at the Factory store or DGV

Doesnt really answer the question. You get taxed on those sites as well.

Dave,
I have been seeing some Star Whippet X's with the DX stamp around. Is this going to be a production disc I will be able to pick up at retailers at a normal price rather then an inflated ebay price? Also will we ever see runs of KC Pro Whippets again?

I don't think we will be able to run KC Pro Whippets again. Star Whippet Xs will probably be available on and off in the Factory Store.

I was just throwing around a Starlite Roadrunner, and I have to say, I'm extremely happy to see Blizzard technology extending to narrower rim drivers, it will make this technology more accessible to people who prefer narrower rims, have smaller hands, etc.. Would love to see more molds like the Valkyrie, Teebird, Eagle, etc., produced in Starlite. Does Innova have plans to do these in Starlite? Are these narrower rimmed molds only being run using Starlite, or does Innova have plans to run the champion-type blizzards in these molds?

I was just throwing around a Starlite Roadrunner, and I have to say, I'm extremely happy to see Blizzard technology extending to narrower rim drivers, it will make this technology more accessible to people who prefer narrower rims, have smaller hands, etc.. Would love to see more molds like the Valkyrie, Teebird, Eagle, etc., produced in Starlite. Does Innova have plans to do these in Starlite? Are these narrower rimmed molds only being run using Starlite, or does Innova have plans to run the champion-type blizzards in these molds?

We haven't really made any plans yet for these, but they certainly are a possibility. We are presently experimenting with the FD Jackal to see if we can do Starlite or Blizzard.

We going to see the new World Champion explicitly advertised on the site?

No offense but I would be a little upset if I had just won Worlds and my Manufacturer Sponsor decided to have Starlight Roadrunners advertised instead.

Kenny and Dr. Rick would probably love this as well

It's up...good job!

Hi Dave - It was good to see you out at Reedy Creek before my round last week. That round was like most others last week in one important way - on over half of the holes I threw either a Wolf or Wedge off the tee. I was only able to throw a Blizzard driver off the tee once in seven competitive rounds. Blizzard Katana landed under the basket on hole #3 at Idlewild for a bird.

Keep up the good work. See you at Wrightwood.

Hi Dave - It was good to see you out at Reedy Creek before my round last week. That round was like most others last week in one important way - on over half of the holes I threw either a Wolf or Wedge off the tee. I was only able to throw a Blizzard driver off the tee once in seven competitive rounds. Blizzard Katana landed under the basket on hole #3 at Idlewild for a bird.

Keep up the good work. See you at Wrightwood.

I thought about taking the Wedge as I knew about the courses, but the rim is a little to small for me, and my dry hands, to hang on to normally. As it turned out though, the extreme humidity probably would have enabled me to hang on just fine as I couldn't get my putter out of my hands because it was too sticky. A first for me. I learned what a Birdie Bag was for. Thanks Brock.

Hi Dave,

Any plans for a 30th anniversary Aviar next year? And/or, it might be cool to make a small "30th anniversary" stamp to go on all discs made in 2013...

Hi Dave,

It seems like all the recent non-patent molds have alot more dome. The Champion/Quantum Leopards, QJLS, QPLS, Teebirds and Banshees especially. Are they actually new molds and if so will they flatten down over time? Thanks.

Hi Dave,

Any plans for a 30th anniversary Aviar next year? And/or, it might be cool to make a small "30th anniversary" stamp to go on all discs made in 2013...

We will have something.

Hi Dave,

It seems like all the recent non-patent molds have alot more dome. The Champion/Quantum Leopards, QJLS, QPLS, Teebirds and Banshees especially. Are they actually new molds and if so will they flatten down over time? Thanks.

Patent or not, it is the same mold. We went through some domier material early in the year, and now we are in flatter stuff. The recently run TeeBirds are very flat. Firebirds, Beasts, FDs, Super Stingray, and King Cobras are a few of the more recently run discs that all came out pretty flat.

We will have something.

Great, looking forward to it. How about Metal Flake Champ Roadrunners with the metal flakes being tiny #30's ...? Maybe that is a little far-fetched... will look for those on the 40th anniversary :D

Patent or not, it is the same mold. We went through some domier material early in the year, and now we are in flatter stuff. The recently run TeeBirds are very flat. Firebirds, Beasts, FDs, Super Stingray, and King Cobras are a few of the more recently run discs that all came out pretty flat.


Yeah I shouldve been more specific. I know the molds are the same, what I mean is did you have to make a new mold to get rid of the patent numbers? I thought I read somewhere when you make a new mold to replace an old mold there may be some slight difference for awhile..thats why I thought they were more domed.

Thanks Again.

Hey Dave will you guys ever make kc pro TeeBirds again?

Hey Dave will you guys ever make kc pro TeeBirds again?

Ever is a long time. Unless we find a better material supply of KC, we won't be able to make much of anything in KC type material. If we do find a supply, we would run what discs our customers have an interest in.

Hey Dave,

What year did the pro classic roc come out?

Hey Dave,

What year did the pro classic roc come out?

I am not Dave, but I know it was released in 2004.

I am not Dave, but I know it was released in 2004.

Thanks. I didn't remember.

Dave,

There is a rumor floating around that the Roc will now only be made in the + mold.

Lots of people talking about here..

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1557048#post1557048

Can you confirm or deny?

Dave,
I bought a Champ Valk recently and looks like it also has a + rim?
Did you change the Valk mold also?

Dave,

There is a rumor floating around that the Roc will now only be made in the + mold.

Lots of people talking about here..

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1557048#post1557048

Can you confirm or deny?

We are making a few Rocs in the + mold and labeling them as such. The rest are the regular mold. One of the regular molds is San Marino and one is Rancho. The plus mold is also labeled Rancho but the engraving in closer to the center on the regular mold.

Dave,
I bought a Champ Valk recently and looks like it also has a + rim?
Did you change the Valk mold also?

There is one mold (of three) that is a slight + mold and we do use that mold as well as the others depending on what is working better.

These + molds suck, and I hear similar opinions of the larger community. Why is Innova producing so many of these molds? Are they selling better?

There is one mold (of three) that is a slight + mold and we do use that mold as well as the others depending on what is working better.

Does it depend on the plastic or?
What is difference between the two other molds?

Does it depend on the plastic or?
What is difference between the two other molds?

Yes, it depends on the plastic and how it shrinks and comes off the mold.

So the rumor of the + mold coming off the press better then non + molds thus causing less X-Outs is true.

As for your comment on the ROC, there are rocs there were/are being released that do not say they are + but the name "Rancho" is moved more towards the middle?

Are there ANY KC Pro Rocs that have been released with the + mold that do not say they are +?

So the rumor of the + mold coming off the press better then non + molds thus causing less X-Outs is true.

As for your comment on the ROC, there are rocs there were/are being released that do not say they are + but the name "Rancho" is moved more towards the middle?

Are there ANY KC Pro Rocs that have been released with the + mold that do not say they are +?

The + mold Rocs say +. The engraving on the + mold is toward the rim and says Rancho, the same as the regular Roc. The engraving on the regular Roc is more toward the center.

So the rumor of the + mold coming off the press better then non + molds thus causing less X-Outs is true.

As for your comment on the ROC, there are rocs there were/are being released that do not say they are + but the name "Rancho" is moved more towards the middle?

Are there ANY KC Pro Rocs that have been released with the + mold that do not say they are +?

There are no + mold KC Rocs.

Thank you for your responses Dave.

Hi Dave,

I saw you said that the metal-flake doesn't get along well with your disc-making machines, so there is some disincentive to making many of them...

I am *loving* the Champion metal-flake RoadRunner, especially as it has a more gummy feel and seems a bit more stable... How did the metal-flake idea come about and has it any relation to the blizzard genesis?

Hi Dave,

I saw you said that the metal-flake doesn't get along well with your disc-making machines, so there is some disincentive to making many of them...

I am *loving* the Champion metal-flake RoadRunner, especially as it has a more gummy feel and seems a bit more stable... How did the metal-flake idea come about and has it any relation to the blizzard genesis?

no relation to the blizzard at all. It came from a long time ago when we were doing pearlescent colors that weren't strong enough to have a decent effect. I wanted something stronger and got it. Right now, I am investigating how to make it work with our machinery.

no relation to the blizzard at all. It came from a long time ago when we were doing pearlescent colors that weren't strong enough to have a decent effect. I wanted something stronger and got it. Right now, I am investigating how to make it work with our machinery.

not sure it would even be possible, but was going to suggest water droplets. then I realized they might evaporate as steam from the heat or freeze in cold climates post-production and break the disc... then i thought of oil droplets (with anti-freeze properties perhaps) and wondered if you could get a cool rainbow effect. not sure how you would get liquid droplets in there, but you are able to get bubbles... is there anything you could use that is shiny like metal but not as hard so it would be more machine-friendly?

i just re-read my post and it probably sounds like I am smoking something or not getting enough oxygen :eek: LOL

i believe the Destroyer has been likened to an Orc on steroids... Would it be acceptable to describe the Vulcan as a RoadRunner on Steroids?

i believe the Destroyer has been likened to an Orc on steroids... Would it be acceptable to describe the Vulcan as a RoadRunner on Steroids?

It's okay with me, but they don't have any structural similarity other than the basic distance driver shape.

Dave,

I've never seen or heard of an ice clear Blizzard disc in any line.

Is this simply not possible or what?

Dave,

I've never seen or heard of an ice clear Blizzard disc in any line.

Is this simply not possible or what?

We can't do it. Ice can't either unless all the air is out of it.

Hey Dave,

I picked up Champ Dominator today -- looks like a real keeper. Is this even more of a faster Orc than a Destroyer is?

Hey Dave,

I picked up Champ Dominator today -- looks like a real keeper. Is this even more of a faster Orc than a Destroyer is?

I think the dominator is a little more stable than the Orc, and a little less than the Destroyer. It is designed to fall between the Boss and the Katana, with a little more control than the Katana.

Hey, Dave. Not a question, just a hat tip. No response required.

Kelsey is still loving the 150 Blizzard Katana and the 150 Blizzard Boss. Over the summer she has thrown a couple of 1000 rated rounds, qualified for USADGC, and added 28 points to take her rating up to 947. Some of it was due to a summer with time to play and polish her game, but a lot of it was due to the added distance. :)

pd's seem to be showing up with random + molds as well. do you expect this randomness to continue? are you going to do it other discs for some reason? i've personally found dx rocs that were not marked as + mold, but definitely were. valks seem to be like this also. does it make it easier for you guys or something? personally they do not work for me, but i have heard others say they don't mind as much.

thanks

I'm finding the starlight roadrunners to be one of the only long range discs that I can turn over reliably. Are these regular production, or was it a limited run?

Also, with winter coming, I will soon need to practice after dark, and I was wondering if there will be any blizzard glow roadrunners in the near future, or something else similar I can turn to for night driving practice?

Glow discs won't glow that long charged with a 200 lumen torch so maybe a 500-800 lm model would help a but but the real answer is to get a see through disc that you can turn over and tape a LED to it if you don't want to make a permanent setup with the pods that need to be screwed through the flight plate ruining competition legality of the disc. There are different types of lights sold for discs so is suggest looking at online stores if your local stores don't have them.

Charge them with a blacklight...it will last longer.

pd's seem to be showing up with random + molds as well. do you expect this randomness to continue? are you going to do it other discs for some reason? i've personally found dx rocs that were not marked as + mold, but definitely were. valks seem to be like this also. does it make it easier for you guys or something? personally they do not work for me, but i have heard others say they don't mind as much.

thanks

We ran some PDs two years ago with a slight + mold. It is possible that some of those are still finding their way into distribution.

I'm finding the starlight roadrunners to be one of the only long range discs that I can turn over reliably. Are these regular production, or was it a limited run?

Also, with winter coming, I will soon need to practice after dark, and I was wondering if there will be any blizzard glow roadrunners in the near future, or something else similar I can turn to for night driving practice?

If you haven't tried a light weight Champion Mamba, you probably should. Easy to turn and easy distance. Weights down to the 150s. We haven't tried any Blizzard glow as yet, but it sounds like a good idea.

We are going to run the Starlite Roadrunners again as they proved to be fairly popular.

Thanks, I have several mambas in various weights, but they all either turn over so hard they roll or they don't turn over. I just haven't found a happy medium in that mold yet.

I have a blacklight flashlight but no glow driver I can turn over. Also haven't found a clear plastic driver I can turn over. I was thinking about trying to beat in a dx glow valk to where it will turn over. I may try that, but the ones I have are pretty stable new.

see some discussion (feedback) on the plus-mold issue. seems they are randomly showing up on sidewinders also....

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12278&start=2910

it would be nice to have not-even-slight + molds unless they are marked as such.

Hi Dave,

Any thoughts on this listing and is the story true?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Rare-Innova-CAL-11X-2003-04-Era-Champion-TeeBird-w-New-Stamp-Sweet-/190741433079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c69134af7

Also, Ive seen Firebirds, Teebirds and Beasts that had this version of the stamp. Are those some sort of specialty find as well or were those stamps without the KC or Barry Schultz icons just a mistake?

...And, what about the number changes on the Boss and Katana in Champion? Are all the numbers changing or just that plastic base? I also have Echo Katanas that have the numbers from the Groove on them. Are these all just mistakes? Thanks.

Hi Dave,

Any thoughts on this listing and is the story true?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Rare-Innova-CAL-11X-2003-04-Era-Champion-TeeBird-w-New-Stamp-Sweet-/190741433079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c69134af7

Also, Ive seen Firebirds, Teebirds and Beasts that had this version of the stamp. Are those some sort of specialty find as well or were those stamps without the KC or Barry Schultz icons just a mistake?

...And, what about the number changes on the Boss and Katana in Champion? Are all the numbers changing or just that plastic base? I also have Echo Katanas that have the numbers from the Groove on them. Are these all just mistakes? Thanks.

That listing doesn't look right as it has flight numbers. That is a relatively recent addition. When we changed some of the stamps to have flight numbers, some of the signatures were inadvertently left off and had to be added later. My guess is that TeeBird is more like 2010 and 12X.

We did change the Champion numbers on the Boss and Katana as they were perceptably more stable in Champion. I am not familiar with the numbers on the Echo Katana, but from experience, the Echo Katanas have been some of the most stable I have thrown.

The high domed Echo Katanas were and are good sellers, similar to the Halloween stamped Stars from a few years ago. The numbers on the echo ones I am talking about are the same as the Groove. 13/6/-2/2 . I just figured it was a stamp error.

I have a stack of those now defunct stamped Teebirds. Very, very high domed. Those were the ones that had me asking about a mold change w the loss of the patent no., thats how different they felt to the usual and most recent Champion Teebirds.

So 12x Champion/ KC Teebird stamp timeline...

Champion 12x signature KC with old larger swoosh stamp>> Champion 12x signature KC w newer smaller streamlined Swoosh>> The non-KC Champion Teebird stamp w flight numbers>> most recent Champion Teebird w KC icon and signature with flight numbers.

Would that be correct? Thanks as always Dave.

The high domed Echo Katanas were and are good sellers, similar to the Halloween stamped Stars from a few years ago. The numbers on the echo ones I am talking about are the same as the Groove. 13/6/-2/2 . I just figured it was a stamp error.

I have a stack of those now defunct stamped Teebirds. Very, very high domed. Those were the ones that had me asking about a mold change w the loss of the patent no., thats how different they felt to the usual and most recent Champion Teebirds.

So 12x Champion/ KC Teebird stamp timeline...

Champion 12x signature KC with old larger swoosh stamp>> Champion 12x signature KC w newer smaller streamlined Swoosh>> The non-KC Champion Teebird stamp w flight numbers>> most recent Champion Teebird w KC icon and signature with flight numbers.

Would that be correct? Thanks as always Dave.

Timeline appears to be correct and due to errors on our part.

Hello Dave,

Have you ever considered running your lid type discs in Star plastic? I love the Polecat and the Sonic and I would love to have a star complement to my dx. Have you tried Champion plastic in these molds? What was the effect?

Thanks

Hello Dave,

Have you ever considered running your lid type discs in Star plastic? I love the Polecat and the Sonic and I would love to have a star complement to my dx. Have you tried Champion plastic in these molds? What was the effect?

Thanks

The Sonic is made regularly in Star and Champion and distributed by Hero Discs, USA. The Polecat has been made in Star, I believe, but is too light for Champion. The effect was they flew the same as the DX versions.

Hi Dave, I ordered some of the Champion Dominators the other day and they werent listed on the stock at a glance in Champion but was in Blizzard, all the way up to 175g.

I was suprised when they arrived and were 175g. Champion Dominators w a Blizzard stamp. I guess I dont get it? What is the difference between the 175g. Champion vs. 175g. Blizzard?

I have 3 types now, the Star Stamped, the Factory Stamp and now the Blizzard Stamped, all max weight. Are the Blizzard stamped versions THE heavyweight version or is there a standard Champion stamped version like the first releases? Were the heavy Blizzards a mistake or were they stamped mistakenly?

Im sorry, Im confused.

Hi Dave, I ordered some of the Champion Dominators the other day and they werent listed on the stock at a glance in Champion but was in Blizzard, all the way up to 175g.

I was suprised when they arrived and were 175g. Champion Dominators w a Blizzard stamp. I guess I dont get it? What is the difference between the 175g. Champion vs. 175g. Blizzard?

I have 3 types now, the Star Stamped, the Factory Stamp and now the Blizzard Stamped, all max weight. Are the Blizzard stamped versions THE heavyweight version or is there a standard Champion stamped version like the first releases? Were the heavy Blizzards a mistake or were they stamped mistakenly?

Im sorry, Im confused.

Sorry for the confusion. Our staff has been confused too. The problem is the overlap between Blizzard and Champion. We haven't been able to draw a consistent line between when Champion stops and Blizzard starts and vice versa. If we take the Dominator for instance, we can only make Dominators in very heavy weights without Blizzard, so we decided to make them all Blizzard, which was more practical. Bosses now go up to 169 in Blizzard, I believe, as well as Destroyers. Previously, we could make Destroyers and Bosses in high sixties occasionally, but not consistently. With Blizzard, we can make them consistently in Blizzard. There will still be the 'tweeners that are Blizzard enhanced, but not completely Blizzard.

Right on. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

The new Roc release (Mcbeth Roc), is supposed to be a straighter and farther disc than the original. Is this a straigter Cro? Gator?

The new Roc release (Mcbeth Roc), is supposed to be a straighter and farther disc than the original. Is this a straigter Cro? Gator?

The new Champion Roc is a Roc. It just has a lower dome than any other Roc. I suppose it is somewhat like the Ching Rocs that the East Coast office does. Same size and weight, same rim, just lower profile flight plate.

As far as flight, it is the same high speed, just not as overstable low speed, and it is a little faster as it is lower profile.

Any plans to run Makos in the new champ plastic?

Any plans to run Makos in the new champ plastic?

We will definitely test it and see what it is like.

it seems tons of folks i talk to (including myself) are very frustrated with the + mold situation. new innova and discmania discs are randomly showing up with a slight + mold-type inside rim wall, and most of them are not marked. It would be nice to have discs that consistently have a vertical inside rim wall, not even slightly angled. if discs turn out with even a slight + mold, they should be marked as such. the inconsistencies are very frustrating. have you gotten much feedback from team members on this, and do you have a plan for this situation going forward? i certainly understand the inconsistencies of molding different types of plastics from different suppliers, but tweaking molds only adds to these variances. Thanks again Dave for all you have done and continue to do for our sport.

Hi Dave,

I've thrown lids for years and am a new DG player playing for 2 months. For mids I have the Shark and Cobra in DX 169g. The Cobra sailed on me last weekend in the wind.

Would you recommend a Cro or Gator DX similar weight in the wind, or work on form with two discs I have? I have a Leopard that I haven't used. I wanted to get consistent with the mids first.

Thank you so much for your help.

Kevin

Gators are pretty overstable for wind use. They would be a good choice IMO.

Hi Dave,

I've thrown lids for years and am a new DG player playing for 2 months. For mids I have the Shark and Cobra in DX 169g. The Cobra sailed on me last weekend in the wind.

Would you recommend a Cro or Gator DX similar weight in the wind, or work on form with two discs I have? I have a Leopard that I haven't used. I wanted to get consistent with the mids first.

Thank you so much for your help.

Kevin

A Gator is definitely a wind disc, but is pretty overstable. A Cro is stable and pretty good in light to moderate wind. A Roc is also good in light to moderate wind as is a heavier weight Shark. We also have a King Cobra which is also good in the wind. DX Cobras are not that good in wind and neither is a Leopard.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help. I'll get a DX Cro now and work my way up to a Gator.

Kevin

Can you tell us something about the Tern? Flight ratings, plastics, release date?

Can you tell us something about the Tern? Flight ratings, plastics, release date?


The Tern is a long range driver. We are making two types of Terns. Champion Terns will be released next year around February, I believe. Champion's flight ratings are: 12,6,-2,2. Star's ratings will be more terny and less reterny. Star's flight ratings will be 12,6,-3,1. Star will be more appropriate for lower power player and Champion will be more appropriate for higher power players. Star will probably be released a few weeks before or after Champion.

The Tern is a long range driver. We are making two types of Terns. Champion Terns will be released next year around February, I believe. Champion's flight ratings are: 12,6,-2,2. Star's ratings will be more terny and less reterny. Star's flight ratings will be 12,6,-3,1. Star will be more appropriate for lower power player and Champion will be more appropriate for higher power players. Star will probably be released a few weeks before or after Champion.

why not give the disc two different names? nevermind... i guess thats how the boss, destroyer, and a few other discs fly for me. different plastics fly differently

Hi Dave:

Something similar might have been posted earlier, but this is a pretty long thread...

Is there a chance that some of the Blizzard Katanas may be mismarked, like, a totally different disc? A friend of mine got a 132 Katana that is absolutely the most *overstable* thing that anyone I know has ever encountered. Seriously. A former World Champion in our area was sure that he could turn it over and couldn't, even into a serious headwind. He could flip it on release but it would always come back hard left.

Any testing done on Champ makos?
If a test doesn't go as planned what happens to the run of test discs?

Hi Dave:

Something similar might have been posted earlier, but this is a pretty long thread...

Is there a chance that some of the Blizzard Katanas may be mismarked, like, a totally different disc? A friend of mine got a 132 Katana that is absolutely the most *overstable* thing that anyone I know has ever encountered. Seriously. A former World Champion in our area was sure that he could turn it over and couldn't, even into a serious headwind. He could flip it on release but it would always come back hard left.

Those were freaks. I had one myself. It hasn't happened again as far as I know.

Any testing done on Champ makos?
If a test doesn't go as planned what happens to the run of test discs?

We are currently testing the Champ Mako3 which will be similar in profile to the Roc3 and Shark3. The Factory Store is selling a limited amount of the test runs. The tests are going as planned, but if they didn't, for whatever reason, the test shots are either ground up, saved for further review, or given to someone who wants to sell them as test shots.

Any chance of making Banshees in a more durable plastic? I love my Banshees, but the DXs get beat up in the trees. I haven't found a substitute. Thanks.

Any chance of making Banshees in a more durable plastic? I love my Banshees, but the DXs get beat up in the trees. I haven't found a substitute. Thanks.

We make Champion Banshees

The new Champion Roc is a Roc. It just has a lower dome than any other Roc. I suppose it is somewhat like the Ching Rocs that the East Coast office does. Same size and weight, same rim, just lower profile flight plate.

As far as flight, it is the same high speed, just not as overstable low speed, and it is a little faster as it is lower profile.

Dave, why do you call them Roc 3 or RC3 (Rancho Cucamonga mold 3)?

Dave, why do you call them Roc 3 or RC3 (Rancho Cucamonga mold 3)?

It's to differentiate from Ontario, San Marino, and Rancho, even though the engraving says Rancho Cucamonga.

Next year we will have Roc3, Shark3, and Mako3. Three discs of the low dome molding in clear Champion.

Sorry. My bad. I forgot. But what I can't find is the sweet spot of weight in Champion, which for me is low-to-mid 160s. I only can find much heavier (170+ and much lighter 150ish).

We make Champion Banshees

Sorry. My bad. I forgot. But what I can't find is the sweet spot of weight in Champion, which for me is low-to-mid 160s. I only can find much heavier (170+ and much lighter 150ish).

Both coasts are showing 165-169. Also the Factory Store may have factory seconds in high sixties. proshop.innovadiscs.com

Dave,

Do you know how many of the Roc3 were made with the Start Stamp? Big Bird Stamp? Thanks

It's to differentiate from Ontario, San Marino, and Rancho, even though the engraving says Rancho Cucamonga.

Next year we will have Roc3, Shark3, and Mako3. Three discs of the low dome molding in clear Champion.

I have not seen the roc3 but did see the MD2 in this flat champ. The MD2 had a bit of a + rim. Not sure if it is by design or just the flat top affecting the rim. Does the roc3 or any of the other 3 molds have this plus-ish rim? If it is not by design can the flat top affect the rim or am I off on this?

I have not seen the roc3 but did see the MD2 in this flat champ. The MD2 had a bit of a + rim. Not sure if it is by design or just the flat top affecting the rim. Does the roc3 or any of the other 3 molds have this plus-ish rim? If it is not by design can the flat top affect the rim or am I off on this?

It's not by design. Molding and materials affects the ultimate rim and flight plate shape. I think the regular run of Roc3 actually feels a little concave when we are getting them just right.

Dave,

Do you know how many of the Roc3 were made with the Start Stamp? Big Bird Stamp? Thanks

Sorry, I don't have a number for you. We mold and ship to both distribution warehouses. They are stamped separately on both coasts. I believe East coast stamped more as they have more customers. It was the largest release as almost everyone wanted them.

dave,
as you would expect, the new flat champ roc 3's have been selling like there's no tomorrow. the secondary market has been making a killing on these. it's the same reason that the flat '04 and '05 glow rocs continue to rise in value; flat champ roc equals solid response!

hopefully the decision has already been made to run these roc 3's in glow plastic! the reception of those discs would clobber sales expectations!

i'll wager you a ham sandwich.

Hi Dave, can you please let me know how the Shark3 will compare to the DX Shark? Different mold, similar flight? Thanks for info.

Hi Dave, can you please let me know how the Shark3 will compare to the DX Shark? Different mold, similar flight? Thanks for info.

The Shark3 will be a lower profile Shark just like the Roc3 is a lower profile Roc. The flight will be very similar to any Shark except it will be a little faster. It will be made of the same clear Champion plastic as the Roc3.

Thanks Dave. Is there a release date for the Shark3?

Thanks

Thanks Dave. Is there a release date for the Shark3?

Thanks

Not yet, but probably around March of next year.

I understand that plastic from discs is not suitable to make new discs, but can recycled discs be used to make something else - like a disc golf cart accessory perhaps? A drink holder or clipboard or something? Just wondering.

I understand that plastic from discs is not suitable to make new discs, but can recycled discs be used to make something else - like a disc golf cart accessory perhaps? A drink holder or clipboard or something? Just wondering.

Echo discs - Innnova makes them.

I understand that plastic from discs is not suitable to make new discs, but can recycled discs be used to make something else - like a disc golf cart accessory perhaps? A drink holder or clipboard or something? Just wondering.

The short answer is yes, discs can be recycled to make a lot of different plastic products. We use reject parts from molding to mold new Echo discs, but we wouldn't use old dirty discs, if that's what you're asking. Those could be used for some other project or product.

I 2nd the Glow RC3 thing! WOuld love to see some with Innova Bar Stamp!

Sorry, I don't have a number for you. We mold and ship to both distribution warehouses. They are stamped separately on both coasts. I believe East coast stamped more as they have more customers. It was the largest release as almost everyone wanted them.

Who would know and how would we th ePlayers find out?

Dave, I'm not sure if this has been asked already so I'll ask again. Have you guys thought about taking the DX Destroyer hot stamp and putting it on a teeshirt? I think that would be a really cool shirt. If you need someone to model this shirt as a beta test I wear a men's Large :D

Dave,

The newest blizzard bosses I have been getting seem to have zero flashing, they are completely smooth everywhere, all of the edges are perfectly rounded. Not complaining, as they seem to fly pretty great. Has something changed?

Thanks

Who would know and how would we th ePlayers find out?

Call one the sales offices.

Dave,

The newest blizzard bosses I have been getting seem to have zero flashing, they are completely smooth everywhere, all of the edges are perfectly rounded. Not complaining, as they seem to fly pretty great. Has something changed?

Thanks

The only thing is more experience. Higher weight Blizzard will also look generally better than lower weight Blizzards.

What is thre difference between the Mcpro and the KC aviars?

What is thre difference between the Mcpro and the KC aviars?

McPro is no bead putter mold and KC is Big Bead driver mold. KC is much more overstable. Same type material for both.

dave, what is the official status of the vulcan-topped destroyers? have they finally stopped being manufactured?

not a pleasant surprise when buying destroyers from retailers and they show up with the vulcan top.

dave, what is the official status of the vulcan-topped destroyers? have they finally stopped being manufactured?

not a pleasant surprise when buying destroyers from retailers and they show up with the vulcan top.

There were never any real Vulcan topped Destroyers. There were some Destroyers that had a weird cooling that may have looked something like a Vulcan, but the mold was the same. We have the process under much better control so it shouldn't happen to any extent in the future. The TeeDevil may appear to be a Vulcan topped Destroyer.

dave, what is the official status of the vulcan-topped destroyers? have they finally stopped being manufactured?

not a pleasant surprise when buying destroyers from retailers and they show up with the vulcan top.

There were never any real Vulcan topped Destroyers. There were some Destroyers that had a weird cooling that may have looked something like a Vulcan, but the mold was the same. We have the process under much better control so it shouldn't happen to any extent in the future. The TeeDevil may appear to be a Vulcan topped Destroyer.

cool. thanks for the quick reply!

McPro is no bead putter mold and KC is Big Bead driver mold. KC is much more overstable. Same type material for both.

I threw the McPro this weekend and liked it very much.

Hi Dave. Long time no see. My question is are the CFR Aviars from the 2001 US Masters a CE plastic or regular Champion? Thanks and thanks for finally making production Champ Rocs!

Hi Dave. Long time no see. My question is are the CFR Aviars from the 2001 US Masters a CE plastic or regular Champion? Thanks and thanks for finally making production Champ Rocs!

Hi Joe. Nice to hear from you. I have no idea on your question unfortunately.
However, I don't remember ever doing the original CE with Aviars. As for the Production Champion Rocs; not quite. The Champion Roc3 is a slightly different beast in that it is considerably less domey than normal and not quite so overstable. It is still stable high speed, but not so overstable low speed. Personally, I like it better than the regular Champion Rancho Roc, because it is straighter.

Hello Dave...so much info to learn about Rocs. I ca n't keep up, being new to Rocs! I do love my R-Pro Roc..its new. I liked it so much I got a new KC Roc. Completely different mold it seems? What mold is my R-Pro, and what mold is the KC...and what other Roc models share each?

Hello Dave...so much info to learn about Rocs. I ca n't keep up, being new to Rocs! I do love my R-Pro Roc..its new. I liked it so much I got a new KC Roc. Completely different mold it seems? What mold is my R-Pro, and what mold is the KC...and what other Roc models share each?

The Roc has been around since 1985 with the Classic 175 sized model. The 180 San Marino model came out in 1988. The San Marino was repaired and retooled into the Ontario model around 1993. The Rancho Roc came out around 1999. The Remake of the San Marino came out around 2008. The Roc + came out around 2011, and finally the Roc3 is out now.

Rocs have been made in many different materials such as DX, R-Pro, R-Wood, CE, Super Roc, Pro, Champion and Star. Probably a few more that escape me right now. This adds up to a large number of variations.

Your R-Pro Roc is probably a Roc+.

Most of the differences in Rocs are materials they are molded in and slight nuances in the way they feel and fly. If you go to an online collectors, they would be happy to give you any info you might ever want. Most of the dates and stamps are lost to me.

Thanks Dave. I am LOVING the new Roc 3. Threw a 176g yesterday at Golden Gate and didn't hit a tree and reached hole 17B through the trees downhill straight as an arrow! This is gonnna replace my 20th anny Sanny! Great grip, slightly flexy, smooth release and super straight. I did wipe the stamp though which I usually do for a basic stock stamp. This stamp is really minimal and I beg you to print more Big Birds. They look so cool. I would never wipe that one! (PS: also loving the Star Vulcan. May be my new distance roller)

Hi Dave!
Is there anyway that I can tell newer "stabilized" Pro Wraiths from the older ones? I have a few early runs around 167-69g and I love them for a control driver with easy distance. I've picked up some more in the past few years (some even lighter) and they seem to have very little glide. They fly similarly, but when it starts to flex (hyzer) out, they just drop instead of gliding. This has even happened with a 164. Is this due to "stabilization" or some other tweak?
Thanks.

Hi Dave!
Is there anyway that I can tell newer "stabilized" Pro Wraiths from the older ones? I have a few early runs around 167-69g and I love them for a control driver with easy distance. I've picked up some more in the past few years (some even lighter) and they seem to have very little glide. They fly similarly, but when it starts to flex (hyzer) out, they just drop instead of gliding. This has even happened with a 164. Is this due to "stabilization" or some other tweak?
Thanks.

Pro material is very finicky from batch to batch. I don't know of a consistent way to tell Pro stability just by looking at the shape. Generally though, the domier Pros have more glide and less low speed over-stability than the flatter ones. High speed stability is a lot trickier with Pro. Most of the time, a higher parting line height will dictate more high speed stabilty, all other factors held equal, which they may not be.

Pro material is very finicky from batch to batch. I don't know of a consistent way to tell Pro stability just by looking at the shape. Generally though, the domier Pros have more glide and less low speed over-stability than the flatter ones. High speed stability is a lot trickier with Pro. Most of the time, a higher parting line height will dictate more high speed stabilty, all other factors held equal, which they may not be.

Thanks. I'm hoping if I beat in my newest one it should fly a little better. It has a very beautiful stamp from a new sponsor. I'd hate to not be able to throw it.

What is the reason for no longer making the champ aero? Can you please make more?

What is the reason for no longer making the champ aero? Can you please make more?

I was difficult to get in any weight except 180. However, we have a new plastic that might work and will try it at some point.

So chances of star panther? I thing it would be good

So chances of star panther? I thing it would be good


Small possibility it could be a Factory Store offering.

Dave, can you please let me know how the new Pulsar is different from the older model? Was the older model DX plastic? Newer model firmer? Thanks.

Dave, can you please let me know how the new Pulsar is different from the older model? Was the older model DX plastic? Newer model firmer? Thanks.


New model has a slightly firmer and grippier plastic. It also weighs about 5 grams less on average. Mode weight is now about 175gms. Mode weight used to be about 180 gms. Both older and newer are a DX type plastic. We are able to make the newer model in Glow also.

Dave, have you made any tests with the Jaguar mold in Champ Blizzard or are you planning to?

Dave, have you made any tests with the Jaguar mold in Champ Blizzard or are you planning to?

I don't believe we have done any tests yet and are planning to at some point, but it isn't in the schedule yet.

I don't believe we have done any tests yet and are planning to at some point, but it isn't in the schedule yet.

Thanx Dave, would really like to try a Champ Blizzard Jaguar sometime in the future :-)

I am really likening the feel of the plastic on the turn and roc3. I understand a mako and shark is in the works. This seems to be a different type of champ plastic. Is this true? If so, are there plans for other discs with this type. I know a lot of people that would love it.

Dave,

Question about plastics and molds:

1. Is the DX Classic a plastic type, or rather a Classic mold of a disc, in DX plastic?
2. Is, for example, the KC Pro a plastic type, or like above, a KC mold of a disc, in Pro plastic (the same goes for Yeti, JK and so on)?

I am really likening the feel of the plastic on the turn and roc3. I understand a mako and shark is in the works. This seems to be a different type of champ plastic. Is this true? If so, are there plans for other discs with this type. I know a lot of people that would love it.

It is a new type of plastic. We have been trying it with several molds. We will have some TeeBirds available soon in the Factory Store.

Dave,

Question about plastics and molds:

1. Is the DX Classic a plastic type, or rather a Classic mold of a disc, in DX plastic?
2. Is, for example, the KC Pro a plastic type, or like above, a KC mold of a disc, in Pro plastic (the same goes for Yeti, JK and so on)?

Both to both. Classics refer to the original molds with a firm DX.

KC Pro is Big Bead driver with a special plastic. Same with the other molds.

Both to both. Classics refer to the original molds with a firm DX.

KC Pro is Big Bead driver with a special plastic. Same with the other molds.

Thanks Dave!

Now there are a lot more correct answers to one question in a quizz that I got going on on my page. :D

A representative of an online retailer told me that you are no longer making the XD, and would only be making the XD plus. Say it aint so Dave.

A representative of an online retailer told me that you are no longer making the XD, and would only be making the XD plus. Say it aint so Dave.

Like so many pieces of disinformation, not so. As a matter fact, the opposite could be said... sort of. We will be changing, or eliminating the XD+, depending how the retool goes.

A representative of an online retailer told me that you are no longer making the XD, and would only be making the XD plus. Say it aint so Dave.

Always good to ask the source. I heard on Discgolfcoursereview yesterday that we were discontinuing Blizzard. Just a troll, but people were buying into it.
Thanks for the question. It helps to straighten out the disinformation that people come up with, for whatever reason.

Well....I heard you were going to get rid of standard Champion and make eveything using the Blizzard process, as it makes less x outs. Any truth to that? Thanks Dave.

Well....I heard you were going to get rid of standard Champion and make eveything using the Blizzard process, as it makes less x outs. Any truth to that? Thanks Dave.

While I understand how this rumor might have gotten started, it non the less is way less than factual. We did say that all Dominators would be Blizzard and possibly some other speed 13 driver, but not even close for the smaller rimmed discs. Only the drivers that could only be made in the highest weights were considered for this. This makes lower weights in those particular drivers available.

In all honesty, would anyone really know if they werent told? The heavyweight Blizzards I have seen just look like cloudy Champion.

Would you say that the heavier weight Blizzards produce less X-Outs than non Blizzards at the same weights?

Also, why we are talking Dominators, was there a change to the original KC CFR Blizzard Dominators to the ones out today? Ive heard there was tooling done after those KC versions...

As Always, Thanks Dave

Always good to ask the source. I heard on Discgolfcoursereview yesterday that we were discontinuing Blizzard. Just a troll, but people were buying into it.
Thanks for the question. It helps to straighten out the disinformation that people come up with, for whatever reason.

I prefer to get my info from the source too. I have two more questions for you.

1) Do you know when you will release the mako3, and what will the flight rating be?

2) Are you playing the sky high showdown this year?

In all honesty, would anyone really know if they werent told? The heavyweight Blizzards I have seen just look like cloudy Champion.

Would you say that the heavier weight Blizzards produce less X-Outs than non Blizzards at the same weights?

Also, why we are talking Dominators, was there a change to the original KC CFR Blizzard Dominators to the ones out today? Ive heard there was tooling done after those KC versions...

As Always, Thanks Dave

Probably most people wouldn't notice the heaviest weights but we couldn't really draw a line and they do mold better with blizzard, especially when they are not max weight.

I don't remember what happened to the original Dominators, but as far as I recall they were given to the Nor Cal So Cal championships year before last. After that, there was a slight change to the bevel before there was a general release. I don't know about the KC CFR Blizzard Dominators.

I prefer to get my info from the source too. I have two more questions for you.

1) Do you know when you will release the mako3, and what will the flight rating be?

2) Are you playing the sky high showdown this year?

We have already released some Mako3s, but general release probably won't come until May. Sooner if we can.

I am planning on playing the Sky High Showdown.

Is the brinster teebird a plus like rim same as the 3 molds.

Hey Dave, have you ever given any thought to the old X-mold Beasts and bringing them back? The modern "L" winged ones have never compared to the original imo.

Hey Dave, have you ever given any thought to the old X-mold Beasts and bringing them back? The modern "L" winged ones have never compared to the original imo.

I asked this in the past, they told me the old mold beast was too similar to the orc and that was why they made the change. We will see what dave says

Is the brinster teebird a plus like rim same as the 3 molds.

Its the normal TeeBird mold.

Hey Dave, have you ever given any thought to the old X-mold Beasts and bringing them back? The modern "L" winged ones have never compared to the original imo.

An X mold Beast would be an Orc. The Beast could be molded more stable using different plastic. Jolly launhcer plastic would do it. It's a possibility for the store.

Yeah, in theroy. As a thrower of both, and still of Orcs, I disagree. The early Beasts were my go to driver and I could throw them straight and it would flip way later in flight than any other disc, and still fade. The flight changed when the wing changed. Just my opinion, but Im sure Im not alone. If you do happen to make them, Id buy them. Thanks Dave.

Dave when are we going to see some pumas and piranha in the factory store? How many petition sigs would be satisfactory for you to make this it's been long enough

So any chance of Star Banshee? Its my thumber disc as everything higher has to big a lip for me and always can make fly great but a new champ takes forever to beat in and Star would be money as long as it was flat and not to domey?

Its the normal TeeBird mold.

They were molded as regular teebirds, but did the plastic settle as a regular teebird or did it settle into a plus type rim?

Were the 3 mold discs intended to have a plus type rim?

Dave when are we going to see some pumas and piranha in the factory store? How many petition sigs would be satisfactory for you to make this it's been long enough

Piranha mold is extinct. Puma is a possibility. Check with Eric at the Factory Store.

So any chance of Star Banshee? Its my thumber disc as everything higher has to big a lip for me and always can make fly great but a new champ takes forever to beat in and Star would be money as long as it was flat and not to domey?

Star Banshee is definitely a possibility for the Factory Store. Put in a request with Eric at the store.

They were molded as regular teebirds, but did the plastic settle as a regular teebird or did it settle into a plus type rim?

Were the 3 mold discs intended to have a plus type rim?

I don't know the answer about the TeeBirds settling but I know what you mean. Sometimes the rim settles slightly concave and sometimes it stays straight, giving more of an impression of a plus.

3 molds were not intended to have a plus.

Hey Dave. Question about the 2007 Christmas disc. I've seen a lot of orcs but I have an FL. Any chance that I have a rare one? Thanks.

Hey Dave. Question about the 2007 Christmas disc. I've seen a lot of orcs but I have an FL. Any chance that I have a rare one? Thanks.

Sorry, I don't understand the question. I would need to see the disc, to have a chance at identification.

Hey Dave. Question about the 2007 Christmas disc. I've seen a lot of orcs but I have an FL. Any chance that I have a rare one? Thanks.

Doubtful. I have an FL too.

Hello Dave!
I love my R-Pro Roc+ better 'n most other mid-range discs. I want to try a Champion Roc+, and I see mostly on the market are discs made as fundraisers toward the USDGC 2011, '12, and '13.
Can you shed some light on the differences between the years/molds?
What other Roc+ discs, are, were, or will be, available?I prefer the most stable, straightest flyer...least fade.... I'm gonna get some, but I want to know what I'm getting!
Thanks..
Nick

Hello Dave!
I love my R-Pro Roc+ better 'n most other mid-range discs. I want to try a Champion Roc+, and I see mostly on the market are discs made as fundraisers toward the USDGC 2011, '12, and '13.
Can you shed some light on the differences between the years/molds?
What other Roc+ discs, are, were, or will be, available?I prefer the most stable, straightest flyer...least fade.... I'm gonna get some, but I want to know what I'm getting!
Thanks..
Nick

If you want the straightest, least fade, you should try a Roc3. It would take a long time to talk about all the Roc molds. They go back to 1985. There are Roc collector threads at DGCR that can help you out there.

If you want the straightest, least fade, you should try a Roc3. It would take a long time to talk about all the Roc molds. They go back to 1985. There are Roc collector threads at DGCR that can help you out there.

Thanks Dave, I have some new ROC3's, it's the "plus" mold I like to hold and throw...it's the ngle of the inside lip...I just wanted to know if there were any differences between the three years they were made as fundraising discs for the USDGC. '11,'12, and '13. They are readily available...

Thanks!

NN

Hi Dave, what is a good fairway driver to compliment the DX Leopard (169 g)? I wanted something better in headwinds and crosswinds, DX and Champion plastics. Thanks for your help. Kevin

did the roc 3's come out with a slanted inner rim?

Hi Dave, what is a good fairway driver to compliment the DX Leopard (169 g)? I wanted something better in headwinds and crosswinds, DX and Champion plastics. Thanks for your help. Kevin

Eagle and TeeBird are Innovas best. FD for Dismania. All of these are a little faster. If you want the same speed, the Gazelle would be your best best.

did the roc 3's come out with a slanted inner rim?

It is the same as the regular Rancho or San Marino.

My Roc 3 has a slanted rim and so did the rest at the store i got mine from. The slant is not as steep as with plus molds but almost as steep and definitely more so than with regular Ranchos. Variations seem to exist. The flight is nice though.

DAVE. I received an orange driver at a tournament the other day with the new innova web site on the bottom along with puzzling initials clearly marked Star BA .Some say it's a boss east of the Mississippi (bawse) .could you shed some light on this .

DAVE. I received an orange driver at a tournament the other day with the new innova web site on the bottom along with puzzling initials clearly marked Star BA .Some say it's a boss east of the Mississippi (bawse) .could you shed some light on this .

I don't know for sure, but BA is Banshee.

This disc has a 3.3 cm rim. Is that as wide as they can go? Looks fast.

I don't know for sure, but BA is Banshee.

It is a 170.I'm just asking for curiosity sake but can it be possible that mabe some one was experimenting at the factory with different tops and bottoms and one just happen to slip out.because I throw bosses way back when the came out and this thing (BA) is highly controllable inwind ,back hand ,fore hand .just doesn't have the boss fade.sorry Dave I'm a nut when it comes to things like this .

This disc has a 3.3 cm rim. Is that as wide as they can go? Looks fast.

1st of April...

Never Mind !!

It is a 170.I'm just asking for curiosity sake but can it be possible that mabe some one was experimenting at the factory with different tops and bottoms and one just happen to slip out.because I throw bosses way back when the came out and this thing (BA) is highly controllable inwind ,back hand ,fore hand .just doesn't have the boss fade.sorry Dave I'm a nut when it comes to things like this .

If it has a small wing its a Banshee, which is very good for all the things you said it was good at.

1st of April...

LOL. This must be the speed 15 driver people keep asking me about in the shop? I forgot all about April Fools this year.

Could ANY human throw fast enough to handle a disc like that? Doubtful.

Thanks Dave !!!! I like the New Champion Shark 3 !!!

Hey Dave, Do use an iPhone by any chance. I just released an app to track your personal putting practice statistic for all types of putting situations. It is very simple and fast. It will only add about 2 seconds to your normal putting routine. Would you take a look and do a review?

Web site: http://www.proputtapp.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Proputtapp?ref=tn_tnmn

Thanks in advance,

J

Dave, do you plan to release the roc3 in any other plastics?

Hey Dave, Do use an iPhone by any chance. I just released an app to track your personal putting practice statistic for all types of putting situations. It is very simple and fast. It will only add about 2 seconds to your normal putting routine. Would you take a look and do a review?

Web site: http://www.proputtapp.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Proputtapp?ref=tn_tnmn

Thanks in advance,

J I don't have an iphone, but Jonathan Poole passed along the link to our team to review.

Dave, do you plan to release the roc3 in any other plastics?

Yes, when we can. Definitely Star, maybe DX too.

Dave,

Any chance of ever making the regular champion TL (non-plus mold) a stock production disc?

Thanks

Dave,

Any chance of ever making the regular champion TL (non-plus mold) a stock production disc?

Thanks

If, by that, you mean like the regular production TeeBird; then yes.

If, by that, you mean like the regular production TeeBird; then yes.

Well, there is a champion TL plus, a champion teebird T mold, but there is no normal champion TL

Well, there is a champion TL plus, a champion teebird T mold, but there is no normal champion TL

We just made some so I am sure there is normal Champion TLs.

We just made some so I am sure there is normal Champion TLs.

Ok, Ill take another look, thanks Dave

Think it said June 10th release, but that may have been the Mako3 and Star Tern only.

I just picked up a 150 blizzard champion boss. It appears to have no bubbles in the flight plate, just bubbles in the rim. Is this correct? It seems illogical to have less weight in the rim and more in the center. Also, it is more domey than the 150 r-pro I have. What effect does that have on the flight? Thanks.

I just picked up a 150 blizzard champion boss. It appears to have no bubbles in the flight plate, just bubbles in the rim. Is this correct? It seems illogical to have less weight in the rim and more in the center. Also, it is more domey than the 150 r-pro I have. What effect does that have on the flight? Thanks.

The exact distribution of the bubbles has no effect on the over all flight at all, although there seems to be a lot of people convinced that it does. We have done extensive testing around this. The rim has plenty of mass with or without tiny bubbles. The lighter the disc, the less torque resistance the disc has, just like any other disc. The dome is another matter, as is the shape of the disc. The dome will give the disc more glide, with or without bubbles. The exact way the disc cooled up could make it more or less high speed stable, just like any other disc. Really, the only thing the bubbles do is make the disc lighter, which makes it glide longer than a heavier disc, and makes it easier to get up to speed for those who can't throw heavy discs. It also makes it much harder to mold. Before Blizzard, all we had for lighter discs in very high speed drivers, was DX and R-Pro. Neither had anywhere near the durability of Blizzard.

Thanks Dave,
More glide is good. So far my new 150 Blizzard Boss has been great for me. I had my best round of the summer, and I threw it almost every drive.

Hi Dave! Been reading a lot about the new Atlas and am wondering if the purpose of the overmold soft rim is to stick in the chains, why not make a putter like the Aviar? Thanks.