Never was a hotdog guy [certainly not a Bulldog fan either], but numerous Varsity Fried Apple Pies and greasy burgers went down before & after games!

OK back to Dave...

ahhh... The Varsity. Good milkshakes too.

Wadayahave???Wadaya-wadayahave??? God I miss the ATL.

Dave
I have someone looking for a 150 Champion firebird for forehand throws and see they are no longer available. He is trying a 150 champion banshee. Is that his best bet or will the champion FB be available again? I had two of them and they were 'silly overstable', had one of the strongest players in the area throw it and could not turn it over.

http://www.geocities.com/foshildgc/westernautomaticmodern.gif
"The trap machine above was the real workhorse of most gun clubs in all states. It is the Western electric trap. Used exclusively for decades (developed in the late 1940's), it is slowly being replaced by the automatic traps. Probably 99% of all gun clubs still use this Western electric trap, including the Grand American in Vandalia, Ohio. These traps are set by "trappers or setters" one target at a time."

All you would have to do is to modify the arm on one of these old machines. I used to hand load clay targets in machines like these for ATA sanctioned events as a teenager. They can be very dangerous but with less tension on the spring they might offer a stable uniform disc throwing machine. Since most shooting clubs have gone to automatic, state-of-the-art machines I bet they are available for a good price. They are cocked by a motor and released by an electric button and cord several yards away.



Two things, the first is that I don't think a trap would work for throwing a frisby. What makes discs fly so far is proper snap, I don't see a trap being able to impart that. Second, I have read that a Gateway partner has a throwing machine.

Hi Dave--what do you think of the orions? are they all they are hyped to be? in other words, do you feel they fly as far on average as a wraith or other wider-rimmed discs, while affording more control because of the narrower rim? lastly--what would you compare their rim-width to, a teebird/eagle or valk/firebird? as always, thanks for your time.

Dave
I have someone looking for a 150 Champion firebird for forehand throws and see they are no longer available. He is trying a 150 champion banshee. Is that his best bet or will the champion FB be available again? I had two of them and they were 'silly overstable', had one of the strongest players in the area throw it and could not turn it over.



The Banshee in 150 Champion is probably his best bet at present. It is very difficult, to make 150 Champion Firebirds.

Hi Dave--what do you think of the orions? are they all they are hyped to be? in other words, do you feel they fly as far on average as a wraith or other wider-rimmed discs, while affording more control because of the narrower rim? lastly--what would you compare their rim-width to, a teebird/eagle or valk/firebird? as always, thanks for your time.



I have had the most experience with the Q Orion LF. I personally think the Q is a better flyer than the Sirius in that particular mold. In 150 class, it is probably the best driver in the high durability plastic for distance and accuracy. In heavier weights, the Q Orion LF has a few peers, but still the combination of distance and accuracy is well worth checking out. The rim is similar in width to the Valkyrie. As for the question of whether the QOF will keep up with a Wraith on average, it depends mostly on how well you throw Wraiths. If don't know how to turn a Wraith over and keep it over, you will probably do better with an Orion. If you can turn a Wraith over and keep it over, you will do better for distance with a Wraith. Generally, the Orion is a more accurate disc than the Wraith, with comparable distance for the average thrower.

Dave,

Do you think that individual differences between discs of the same mold, plastic, and weight (such as more/less dome, flatter wing, etc.) are more pronounced in the flight of wider rimmed discs than those with narrower wings? I ask because I have noticed that when I get a new Teebird or Firebird it may fly differently than the old one, but the character of flight is never too far off. Even Orcs (at least 30 175g went through my possession) seemed quite consistent in terms of stability and flight character. Wraiths and Teerexes on the other hand can vary wildly in stability from disc to disc. Is this due to the rim width or something else like Star plastic?

Good Question!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
I was wondering the same thing...
One of the best questions I've seen on here in a while actually...

When will the Star Orcs be coming out? Will they be available in the light 160's? I'm hoping to get a stack of them in the 158-165 range as soon as they are available. I am holding off on buying anymore champion discs, as I feel that the Star Orcs will be the perfect grip for me, as winter is quickly approaching here. Also, my husband would like to thank you for the Star Beast, I picked one up for him at Am Worlds, and he swears by that disc.

When will the Star Orcs be coming out? Will they be available in the light 160's? I'm hoping to get a stack of them in the 158-165 range as soon as they are available.



Soon:
http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3118-STORC

Dave,

Do you think that individual differences between discs of the same mold, plastic, and weight (such as more/less dome, flatter wing, etc.) are more pronounced in the flight of wider rimmed discs than those with narrower wings? I ask because I have noticed that when I get a new Teebird or Firebird it may fly differently than the old one, but the character of flight is never too far off. Even Orcs (at least 30 175g went through my possession) seemed quite consistent in terms of stability and flight character. Wraiths and Teerexes on the other hand can vary wildly in stability from disc to disc. Is this due to the rim width or something else like Star plastic?



The rim width/mass is what makes the faster discs vary more. The plastic does vary too, but the variance is much less noticeable in an Aviar vs. a Wraith. The Star plastic is probably more consistent in the wider rimmed discs than our other plastics. Our newest disc seems very consistent in Star, but is very inconsistant in DX. We found this to be the case with TeeRex too.

When will the Star Orcs be coming out? Will they be available in the light 160's? I'm hoping to get a stack of them in the 158-165 range as soon as they are available. I am holding off on buying anymore champion discs, as I feel that the Star Orcs will be the perfect grip for me, as winter is quickly approaching here. Also, my husband would like to thank you for the Star Beast, I picked one up for him at Am Worlds, and he swears by that disc.



The Star Orcs will be released next Monday, September 18th. Weights are available down to 160 grams.

Dave,

Do you think that individual differences between discs of the same mold, plastic, and weight (such as more/less dome, flatter wing, etc.) are more pronounced in the flight of wider rimmed discs than those with narrower wings? I ask because I have noticed that when I get a new Teebird or Firebird it may fly differently than the old one, but the character of flight is never too far off. Even Orcs (at least 30 175g went through my possession) seemed quite consistent in terms of stability and flight character. Wraiths and Teerexes on the other hand can vary wildly in stability from disc to disc. Is this due to the rim width or something else like Star plastic?



The rim width/mass is what makes the faster discs vary more. The plastic does vary too, but the variance is much less noticeable in an Aviar vs. a Wraith. The Star plastic is probably more consistent in the wider rimmed discs than our other plastics. Our newest disc seems very consistent in Star, but is very inconsistant in DX. We found this to be the case with TeeRex too.



Really interesting stuff. :)

Our newest disc seems very consistent in Star, but is very inconsistant in DX.


Newest disc? :eek: Please share more!

I recently picked up a CFR Champion Gremlin. The seller said it was a short run. Do you know just how short of a run it was? Also, I see the term 'box' used. If you run a box of discs, is it a set number? I'm wondering if this is a factory qty or just advertisement. Thanks.

Our newest disc seems very consistent in Star, but is very inconsistant in DX.


Newest disc? :eek: Please share more!



The Max has been sent in for approval. The Max is the next stability level greater than the TeeRex. Right now, it appears that it will only be available in Max weight Star for tournaments. First offering will be available as a fundraiser for US Masters through www.discgolfvalues.com (http://www.discgolfvalues.com) later today.

Our newest disc seems very consistent in Star, but is very inconsistant in DX.


Newest disc? :eek: Please share more!



The Max has been sent in for approval. The Max is the next stability level greater than the TeeRex. Right now, it appears that it will only be available in Max weight Star for tournaments. First offering will be available as a fundraiser for US Masters through www.discgolfvalues.com (http://www.discgolfvalues.com) later today.



I have several red first run max weight Teerexes and they are incredibly overstable and I use them for long shots with strong finishes or for a distance driver in a headwind over 15mph. I have thrown many other Teerexes including some newer ones that Ken Climo had and they are really different and less stable than my red ones. Is the MAX like my red Teerexes, or is it going to be even more overstable?

Thanks again for entertaining all our questions!

I recently picked up a CFR Champion Gremlin. The seller said it was a short run. Do you know just how short of a run it was? Also, I see the term 'box' used. If you run a box of discs, is it a set number? I'm wondering if this is a factory qty or just advertisement. Thanks.



I don't recall what the number was, but they sold very quickly. A box of discs varies from about 100 for a putter to 124 for drivers.

I have several red first run max weight Teerexes and they are incredibly overstable and I use them for long shots with strong finishes or for a distance driver in a headwind over 15mph. I have thrown many other Teerexes including some newer ones that Ken Climo had and they are really different and less stable than my red ones. Is the MAX like my red Teerexes, or is it going to be even more overstable?

Thanks again for entertaining all our questions!



It sounds just like your red TeeRex. My Star TeeRexes are more like a fast TeeBird than a Firebird. The Max is more like a fast Firebird. The Max is the least sensitive to nose down compared to the Wraith, which is most sensitive, and the TeeRex next.
This disc is really for big arms and wind. You can use it as a spike disc, but you can use anything stable for a spike. The Max is best for low line drive flat or slightly turned over, wind or not. That is a tough shot for most discs.
I have been using it for long sidearm approaches that start flat and medium height, then spike finish to the hole. Also, throwing flat over OB knowing it will return, is a good thing.

Both the Champion & STAR CFR Gremlins rule. At first, I thought the lack of a bead felt a little "off" (having thrown DX & Proline Gremlins for years), but once I dialed 'em in, I fell in love. Best straight mid-driver ever! (Sorry Roc fans.)

Those Star Gremlins are sweet!!

Well Not enough for me to walk away from my Rocs..... hehe

I have several red first run max weight Teerexes and they are incredibly overstable and I use them for long shots with strong finishes or for a distance driver in a headwind over 15mph. I have thrown many other Teerexes including some newer ones that Ken Climo had and they are really different and less stable than my red ones. Is the MAX like my red Teerexes, or is it going to be even more overstable?

Thanks again for entertaining all our questions!



It sounds just like your red TeeRex. My Star TeeRexes are more like a fast TeeBird than a Firebird. The Max is more like a fast Firebird. The Max is the least sensitive to nose down compared to the Wraith, which is most sensitive, and the TeeRex next.
This disc is really for big arms and wind. You can use it as a spike disc, but you can use anything stable for a spike. The Max is best for low line drive flat or slightly turned over, wind or not. That is a tough shot for most discs.
I have been using it for long sidearm approaches that start flat and medium height, then spike finish to the hole. Also, throwing flat over OB knowing it will return, is a good thing.



Dave, I am not sure you have ever thrown it but do you think this might compare to a Spirit? From your description of the max that really sounds like a simular disc, do you have the dimensions for it?

Hey Dave, How long do you think it will be before we see 12x KC discs? Any plans? 8/10x mold/plastic?
Why do you think people like the 8x and 10x KC discs so much better than 11x or 9x discs? Is it the plastic, or the mold � or are they the same? Any chance we can expect to see something different in the plastic used for the upcoming 12x discs - or is the plastic mix that makes KC discs different?

Dave, I am not sure you have ever thrown it but do you think this might compare to a Spirit? From your description of the max that really sounds like a simular disc, do you have the dimensions for it?

[/QUOTE]


I have a quad stamped Wraith that looks identical to a Spirit. Flys the same too, only farther, with slightly more overstable. Whats it worth to you?

Dave, I am not sure you have ever thrown it but do you think this might compare to a Spirit? From your description of the max that really sounds like a simular disc, do you have the dimensions for it?



I don't know anything about a Spirit, so I couldn't compare. The dimensions are similar to a TeeRex.

Hey Dave, How long do you think it will be before we see 12x KC discs? Any plans? 8/10x mold/plastic?
Why do you think people like the 8x and 10x KC discs so much better than 11x or 9x discs? Is it the plastic, or the mold � or are they the same? Any chance we can expect to see something different in the plastic used for the upcoming 12x discs - or is the plastic mix that makes KC discs different?


The KC plastic is unique to the KC Roc and KC Aviar. We have tried it in other discs, but they are no longer in inventory. The latest batch of KC Rocs were already made in the current Rancho mold. They may have already been stamped with the old stamp, so the new stamp won't be seen for a while. There have been some differences in runs and molds for the KC. The first KCs were the Ontario mold. After that, all but one run of 10Xs were Rancho, I believe. That may account for the difference. The Ontario type are straighter fliers than the Ranchos, which are a little more overstable. One run of 11X had a slightly different feel to it when we added an ingredient to make it a little grippier.

hey Dave is there any chance that we will see some mainstream champion wraiths as opposed to fundraisers only?

Dave, I am not sure you have ever thrown it but do you think this might compare to a Spirit? From your description of the max that really sounds like a simular disc, do you have the dimensions for it?



I don't know anything about a Spirit, so I couldn't compare. The dimensions are similar to a TeeRex.


Dave is this essentially the TeeRex-X that some were talking about a while back, only in a regular release?

dp

hey Dave is there any chance that we will see some mainstream champion wraiths as opposed to fundraisers only?



Yes, early next year.

Dave is this essentially the TeeRex-X that some were talking about a while back, only in a regular release?



The TeeRex-X is a different bird. We will probably offer that at some point when we have time.

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5236/flightcharthi3.jpg
Dave, is your ultimate goal to have every blank in the above flight chart filled in? If so, how long do you see that taking? Or are some of the blanks not going to be filled because of overlap or lack of demand? Thanks.

Dont shoot the Eagle...they are a protected species on the endangered list. They fly so nice...Kill the tee-bird instead.

THAT'S BLASPHEMOUS!

Dave,
Has Innova considered adding a photo gallary to their web site that had pictures of every standard stamp disc every produced by Innova? I'm sure b.t Mark, myself and some of the other collectors we could provide the pictures.

Thx

Dave,
When you do a run for the Innova Team is there a standard quantity? I recently received a Super Roc with the small Innova stamp [not glo] , and was told it was a Team disc.

Thx

Kill the tee-bird instead.


*GASP!* *faints*

Kill the tee-bird instead.


*GASP!* *faints*



Who said anything about killing birds? BTW, the Eagle is endangered because it is not as strong a species as the Teebird...It just doesn't survive well without help. Even the retool back to the EL mold couldn't get it to sell...Without the Teebird, Innova would just be another disc company(almost ;)). Its the only disc that has NOT been imitated with ANY success.

Its the only disc that has NOT been imitated with ANY success.



YET !!!

Whoever said, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery," was wrong. Unsuccessful attempts at imitation are the sincerest form of flattery.

Kill the tee-bird instead.


*GASP!* *faints*



Who said anything about killing birds? BTW, the Eagle is endangered because it is not as strong a species as the Teebird...It just doesn't survive well without help. Even the retool back to the EL mold couldn't get it to sell...Without the Teebird, Innova would just be another disc company(almost ;)). Its the only disc that has NOT been imitated with ANY success.


I don't get WHY Discraft doesn't just copy it... I mean they did it with the Tracker... I mean, the TL.

Kill the tee-bird instead.


*GASP!* *faints*



Without the Teebird, Innova would just be another disc company(almost ;)). Its the only disc that has NOT been imitated with ANY success.


Rhynos are purty damm unique! Though that Banger GT may be some form of flattery...!

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5236/flightcharthi3.jpg
Dave, is your ultimate goal to have every blank in the above flight chart filled in? If so, how long do you see that taking? Or are some of the blanks not going to be filled because of overlap or lack of demand? Thanks.



The chart does help me to recognize where we might need a disc, but overlap can kill sales anyway. The Champion Viking is a case in point. Sometimes the chart doesn't quite work as a TeeRex X and a Max would occupy the same slot on that chart.

Dave,
Has Innova considered adding a photo gallary to their web site that had pictures of every standard stamp disc every produced by Innova? I'm sure b.t Mark, myself and some of the other collectors we could provide the pictures.

Thx



That would be cool.

Dave,
When you do a run for the Innova Team is there a standard quantity? I recently received a Super Roc with the small Innova stamp [not glo] , and was told it was a Team disc.

Thx



There is no standard quantity nor time when we send the team discs. Sometimes the disc has been released, and sometimes it has not.

[quoteThe chart does help me to recognize where we might need a disc, but overlap can kill sales anyway. The Champion Viking is a case in point. Sometimes the chart doesn't quite work as a TeeRex X and a Max would occupy the same slot on that chart.

[/QUOTE]

Hi Dave,
I thought that the Max would be more Monster-like in stability then the TeeRex :confused:.
Will there be a Star TeeRex X released?

[quoteThe chart does help me to recognize where we might need a disc, but overlap can kill sales anyway. The Champion Viking is a case in point. Sometimes the chart doesn't quite work as a TeeRex X and a Max would occupy the same slot on that chart.



Hi Dave,
I thought that the Max would be more Monster-like in stability then the TeeRex :confused:.
Will there be a Star TeeRex X released?

[/QUOTE]

The Max is very Firebird like but faster. The Max is more stable than the TeeRex. The Star TeeRex is more like a TeeBird, but faster. There will be Star TeeRex Xs released at some point. They will probably be for tournament fundraisers.

What's the deal with the TEEREX(new) and the TEE-REX(old) stamps? What was the reason(s) for the change and do these discs have different characteristics?

Thanks,

ChrisP.

The Max is very Firebird like but faster. The Max is more stable than the TeeRex. The Star TeeRex is more like a TeeBird, but faster.



Not to nit pick, but just to clarify -- the Max is more Stable or more Over-Stable than the TeeRex?

well if it is "firebird like" then I would assume (having thrown Firebirds and Teerexs) that it is MORE OVERSTABLE than the teerex.

Hi Dave,
is the Max approved yet?

What's the deal with the TEEREX(new) and the TEE-REX(old) stamps? What was the reason(s) for the change and do these discs have different characteristics?

Thanks,

ChrisP.



No difference. The original stamp was done wrong.

The Max is very Firebird like but faster. The Max is more stable than the TeeRex. The Star TeeRex is more like a TeeBird, but faster.



Not to nit pick, but just to clarify -- the Max is more Stable or more Over-Stable than the TeeRex?



The Max is more high speed stable. Low speed overstability is about the same.

Hi Dave,
is the Max approved yet?



It was sent in last week, so I assume it has been approved.

Dave,
You make so many really good discs. Do you ever make somethig just plain bad? I mean...you get the idea, the mold, the prototype....take it to the field and throw it....and then wish you could wake up from this nightmare :D:D

Dave,
You make so many really good discs. Do you ever make somethig just plain bad? I mean...you get the idea, the mold, the prototype....take it to the field and throw it....and then wish you could wake up from this nightmare :D:D



Yes, just recently. DX Max sucked.

Dave, just got my package from Discgolfvalues containing 2 Star Max(es, i?) Can't wait to test them later today...

Quick question: Why exactly aren't we seeing some of the newer molds in more than one plastic? I've been searching and searching and can't seem to find any Tee-Rexes other than the Star. DX were made if I understand, but I'm unable to locate any. Champion were made in limited numbers... when will see them in greater numbers.

I'm hoping that the Max will fly the way I want it to, but I really would love to get my hands on a Champ TeeRex. Throwing long, high shots that come down with a lot of hyzer are killing my Star TeeRexes. Is there any evidence that the TR mold beats up faster than some other discs in Star? I've got an older Star Teebird that is more stable than ALL of my TeeRexs and it's probably the driver that gets the most use.

I primarily throw the hot pink and orange plastic - easier to find for me.

Oh, and if you'd need a beta tester for fast, overstable stuff - I'm just a couple of clicks away. Innova needs a greater presence in Cincinnati!

Hi Dave,


Are you running out of disc names? No offense, but "The Max?" . Maybe stop having people from "the Valley" thinking up names. Next up: "The gag me with a spoon."

Just kidding. Im sure the name signifies something over my head.

Dave, just got my package from Discgolfvalues containing 2 Star Max(es, i?) Can't wait to test them later today...

Quick question: Why exactly aren't we seeing some of the newer molds in more than one plastic? I've been searching and searching and can't seem to find any Tee-Rexes other than the Star. DX were made if I understand, but I'm unable to locate any. Champion were made in limited numbers... when will see them in greater numbers.

I'm hoping that the Max will fly the way I want it to, but I really would love to get my hands on a Champ TeeRex. Throwing long, high shots that come down with a lot of hyzer are killing my Star TeeRexes. Is there any evidence that the TR mold beats up faster than some other discs in Star? I've got an older Star Teebird that is more stable than ALL of my TeeRexs and it's probably the driver that gets the most use.

I primarily throw the hot pink and orange plastic - easier to find for me.

Oh, and if you'd need a beta tester for fast, overstable stuff - I'm just a couple of clicks away. Innova needs a greater presence in Cincinnati!



The reason that your Teebird has retained more of its stability than your Teerexes is due more the the narrower wing width than the plastic. Wide rimmed discs show greater difference in flight with less wear than Teebirds or other discs with smaller wings. I asked Dave about this a few pages back and that is basically what he said.

Quick question: Why exactly aren't we seeing some of the newer molds in more than one plastic? I've been searching and searching and can't seem to find any Tee-Rexes other than the Star. DX were made if I understand, but I'm unable to locate any. Champion were made in limited numbers... when will see them in greater numbers.
Is there any evidence that the TR mold beats up faster than some other discs in Star? I've got an older Star Teebird that is more stable than ALL of my TeeRexs and it's probably the driver that gets the most use.


We will be making more TeeRexes in other material when we can. For now the Champion will be in limited numbers.
Discspeed's post is correct. Wider rim drivers are more easily damaged than narrower ones.

Innova needs a greater presence in Cincinnati!



a good candidate for sponsorship might be David Cox (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=6582) who has a rating of 1007 and only throws Innova ;)

I think "THE MAX" is a great name. Finally I'll have a disc named after me after all the donating I've done to the pro division over the past three years! :D

-MADMAX

Hi Dave,


Are you running out of disc names? No offense, but "The Max?" . Maybe stop having people from "the Valley" thinking up names. Next up: "The gag me with a spoon."

Just kidding. Im sure the name signifies something over my head.



maximum D (?)

What is the DX Logo for the "MAX" going to look like? Hopefully the outline of Avery Jenkins pumping a 600' drive. Or why not just Avery himself as the logo??? :eek: :D

I can't wait to throw them.

Hi Dave,


Are you running out of disc names? No offense, but "The Max?" . Maybe stop having people from "the Valley" thinking up names. Next up: "The gag me with a spoon."

Just kidding. Im sure the name signifies something over my head.



Dave,
As the inventor of the "DevilHawk" I am considering selling the rights to the namesake for lets say...3 discs :D

As a tribute to the reign of the Firebird as Innova's overstable standard, it would be cool if it was called the Firemax.

As a tribute to the reign of the Firebird as Innova's overstable standard, it would be cool if it was called the Firemax.


I second the nomination! Make the switch before its a regular production disc, FireMax is the PERFECT name, sounds cool and it signifies the type of disc it is in relation to something already in the product line!

Hey Dave! I was wondering if you all had a star spider in the works there. I love the pro-line, but the champion is too overstable. And yes, I do throw the DX but it isn't the same after a tree or two.

Hey Dave! I was wondering if you all had a star spider in the works there. I love the pro-line, but the champion is too overstable. And yes, I do throw the DX but it isn't the same after a tree or two.



We do plan on doing a Star Spider.

How about a nod to the greatest donor vehicle for a wannabe Ferrari, the Fiero!

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a tribute to the reign of the Firebird as Innova's overstable standard, it would be cool if it was called the Firemax.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I second the nomination! Make the switch before its a regular production disc, FireMax is the PERFECT name, sounds cool and it signifies the type of disc it is in relation to something already in the product line!



Or just cut to the chase and name it the FireHawk. :D

The Max sounds like an awesome disc! Anything more over-stable than the Monster should be an addition to any player's bag. I am a Firebird fan of old, but love throwing the Monster as a thumber and tommy, purely out of the fact that I don't want to warp my Firebird. I am curious as to the flight characteristics of the Max (11 speed?) and if it will be a CFR disc in the future?

Tested out 175g STAR Max's last evening. They were consistently about 30-40 feet farther on tommies & thumbers than my "go-to" 150g Champion Firebirds. Also longer than 150g DX TeeRexes by about the same margin. They need quite a bit of lateral room to "work" on overhands, though, moreso than FB or TRX.

Didn't throw enough FH or BH to make a decent review, but will on Wed. (if my arm recovers from hucking that heavy plastic).

is there a possibility of glow star plastic?
(sorry if repeat, didnt see it anywhere)

Dave
just thought you might want to know the hat you wear is made by Columbia and it's called a Cachalot, you can get them at Sportmart or Sports Chalet

Hey Dave! I was wondering if you all had a star spider in the works there. I love the pro-line, but the champion is too overstable. And yes, I do throw the DX but it isn't the same after a tree or two.



We do plan on doing a Star Spider.



A Star Spider would be cool.

The Max sounds like an awesome disc! Anything more over-stable than the Monster should be an addition to any player's bag. I am a Firebird fan of old, but love throwing the Monster as a thumber and tommy, purely out of the fact that I don't want to warp my Firebird. I am curious as to the flight characteristics of the Max (11 speed?) and if it will be a CFR disc in the future?



I wouldn't say the Max is more overstable than a Monster. It is faster. For me, the Monster had more lateral movement and wanted to hyzer earlier than the Firebird and Max.

is there a possibility of glow star plastic?
(sorry if repeat, didnt see it anywhere)



Very little chance as glow adds weight, especially to opaque plastic like Star. The opaque plastic would necessitate a large amount of glow pigment and raise the weight of the plastic.

Thanks Jack

Dave, in the description of the Max on discgolfvalues.com, it says "more overstable than the Monster" so that would be why people are saying that. Maybe that should be changed if that isn't the case...

Dave, in the description of the Max on discgolfvalues.com, it says "more overstable than the Monster" so that would be why people are saying that. Maybe that should be changed if that isn't the case...



Thank you. It needs to be changed.

I threw the Max tonight. Its a hyser disc, not much different than my Star Monster, or my Star Stamped Red Teerex. I threw a friends, and doubt Ill ever throw the 2 I bought.

Personally, I think its what the Teerex should have been, and it will end up like the beefy Teerexs once it gets beat in.

& The Teerex ended up being what the Wraith was supposed to be ;) so it all works out perfect.

Dave, in the description of the Max on discgolfvalues.com, it says "more overstable than the Monster" so that would be why people are saying that. Maybe that should be changed if that isn't the case...



Thank you. It needs to be changed.



Dave, do you have an idea of what the Max's flight characteristics are? I'm guessing like 11, 4, 0, 4 maybe?

Dave,
First off great job. I have and will always throw Innova. A few friends of mine would throw what ever looked good until I convinced them too switch. After adding a Star Coyote, Pro Wraith and Star Teerex he has shaved three throws off our home course per round. (Shady Oaks, Orangevale CA) Now he only throw Innova also.

I had a Question about the CE bag. I waited for the Tour bag for ever. While waiting I bought a PDGA bag which has been great. Because if my passion for Innova I bought a Tour bag yesterday. Now I hear about another better bag by Innova. Any ideas, comments. I have seen a pic with the Innova straps. Anything on the straps also?

If you have any discs that you would like to get rid of just let me know. If you have a CE bag, laying around I would be happy to take it and wash it. Sure, I will send it back.

Dave, do you have an idea of what the Max's flight characteristics are? I'm guessing like 11, 4, 0, 4 maybe?



That sounds pretty accurate at this point.

I had a Question about the CE bag. I waited for the Tour bag for ever. While waiting I bought a PDGA bag which has been great. Because if my passion for Innova I bought a Tour bag yesterday. Now I hear about another better bag by Innova. Any ideas, comments. I have seen a pic with the Innova straps. Anything on the straps also?

If you have any discs that you would like to get rid of just let me know. If you have a CE bag, laying around I would be happy to take it and wash it. Sure, I will send it back.



The latest run of tour bags is the same design with much better stitching and material. The Champion bag is still in a testing phase and is a departure from previous designs. It has a rigid frame inside, and a completely different look outside. The straps are coming. They have been ordered, but not made yet.

correct me if I am wrong, but I assume that everyone carrying more than 15 discs in their bag uses bag straps (quad shocks or something like that) or at the very least would use bag straps if they could.

Therefore it stands to reason that if making a "champion/tour" bag, designed specfically for carrying a large amount of discs, why not make it a backpack style bag. Manufacture the bag with quality backpack straps (like those found on backpacks designed for multiple day excursions) attached instead of the obligatory shoulder strap.

The bag could still be a butt-sitting square design like all the rest, but would be easy to slip on and off because it has these straps attached and not hooked on like the bags right now.

Anywho... just some ideas

I carry about 15 disc and don't use any type of quad shocks. I realize I'm in the minority, but I tried backpack straps several times and get more tired from putting them on and taking them off. Maybe I change my mind someday.

Thanks for helping me to putt Dave. I hope I can remember what you showed me. I might have been 5th place or better if I could have putt during the US Masters !!!!

Thank Dean Tannock for me. He is real easy to play a round with and has great style , like yourself !!!!!

Tim has let me know this is the only place , currently , to purchase the MAX disc.

http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=06_MAX&PHPSESSID=b1c49f4473668bffb7d5844f06715dfd

I have directed folks to this site. I hope I'm right.

Thanks again ,

Donny O.

I think the new bag has the option of quad style straps or a shoulder strap.

Dave, are the new straps made by Innova or are they just a Phoenix strap with an Innova logo?

Dave, I don't know how much you have to do with Millennium's disc production decisions, but it would be great if the next disc to come out in the Sirius line were the Sentinel MF. Playing the courses in NoVa, I could really use a Sirius MF. :eek: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Yeah options are all well and good... but I would wager that OEM straps that are attached during construction would hold up better and feel better when walking.

Anywho... just an idea

I think the new bag has the option of quad style straps or a shoulder strap.

Dave, are the new straps made by Innova or are they just a Phoenix strap with an Innova logo?



We make the straps. They are a more basic design than quadshocks.

Dave, I don't know how much you have to do with Millennium's disc production decisions, but it would be great if the next disc to come out in the Sirius line were the Sentinel MF. Playing the courses in NoVa, I could really use a Sirius MF. :eek: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



That decision is up to John Houck.

i primarily throw innova but have found that the z-wasp is my most reliable mid range disc. i can throw it 300 easy and can muscle it 350. it also holds up excellent in the wind. i have not fouhnd an innova mid range that compares to this. i love innova and would love to have an all innova bag but i don't want to hurt my game as i have been improving lately. any suggestions?

Try throwing a special blend roc, they are pricey, but worth it. Also, I like to throw my PRO LINE spider on aything inside 330' or so. The spiders dont look it, but they are a longer midrange disc than people give them credit for.

you could get an x-out champion roc for 18.99 or you could get a champion glo for 30.00 from zonedriven.

Is there any new discs coming out with a thumbtrac on it I know there is only a couple but i would love to have a understable putter that feels as good as a Rhyno does in my hand, cause the Rhyno is hard to anti with accuracy for me i would love something more understable for some up shots. Also do know what a Sirus OF throws like i have one but i havent thrown yet casue I got it a World Doubles?

Sorry. Did not realize this was the Innova Dave thread. If you missed my post, too late; it's gone now.

Is there any new discs coming out with a thumbtrac on it I know there is only a couple but i would love to have a understable putter that feels as good as a Rhyno does in my hand, cause the Rhyno is hard to anti with accuracy for me i would love something more understable for some up shots. Also do know what a Sirus OF throws like i have one but i havent thrown yet casue I got it a World Doubles?



No new Thumtracs. I have thrown the Sirius Orion LF, but only in light weight for real testing. The heavier one threw very much like a slightly longer TeeBird, but I didn't do very much testing other than a couple of rounds. The lighter one was a little too low speed overstable for me. I liked the Quantum Orion LF better in 150 class as the low speed fade was less. Most of my experience with the OLF has been with Q rather than Sirius.

i primarily throw innova but have found that the z-wasp is my most reliable mid range disc. i can throw it 300 easy and can muscle it 350. it also holds up excellent in the wind. i have not fouhnd an innova mid range that compares to this. i love innova and would love to have an all innova bag but i don't want to hurt my game as i have been improving lately. any suggestions?



I have a beat in 11X kc pro roc that will fly dead straight for 300 feet, or longer on an anny line. And a new kc roc that is very similar, in my opinion, to the flight of a z wasp. Have you tried a kc roc, and if so, what didn't you like about it?

i primarily throw innova but have found that the z-wasp is my most reliable mid range disc. i can throw it 300 easy and can muscle it 350. it also holds up excellent in the wind. i have not fouhnd an innova mid range that compares to this. i love innova and would love to have an all innova bag but i don't want to hurt my game as i have been improving lately. any suggestions?



I have a beat in 11X kc pro roc that will fly dead straight for 300 feet, or longer on an anny line. And a new kc roc that is very similar, in my opinion, to the flight of a z wasp. Have you tried a kc roc, and if so, what didn't you like about it?



A Z-Wasp and a Roc aren't even in the same catagory. Ok they are, both mid ranges... I like both and throw both, but for different shots. A Roc cannot take the wind like a Z-Wasp. A Z Wasp won't hold the line or hold the turn over like a Roc. Both are are great discs. I personally don't think Innova has an answer to the wasp. Why not throw a mixed bag and have the best of ALL worlds??? :)

Have you really compared the two? Look like the same disc to me.


ce

i heard the wasp was the same mold as the roc... Is that a rumor?

A Z-Wasp and a Roc aren't even in the same catagory. Ok they are, both mid ranges... I like both and throw both, but for different shots. A Roc cannot take the wind like a Z-Wasp. A Z Wasp won't hold the line or hold the turn over like a Roc. Both are are great discs. I personally don't think Innova has an answer to the wasp. Why not throw a mixed bag and have the best of ALL worlds???



A broken in wasp and broken in kc roc will fly very similarly. If it's just overstability you're looking for, try one of the many variations of champion rocs available- I don't think you'll have a problem with high speed turn (or resistance to). I was simply stating that a new KC Roc will give him most of what he wants, and will be cheaper than either the Z wasp or the champion rocs. I believe Innova has an answer to everything, except maybe dimple technology :D.

Dave--have you tried the sirius orion ls? what did you think?

i have tried a kc roc and found that it turned over on me. i don't mind throwing a ixed bag that is what i have been doing with the wasp and the wizard. just trying to find something similar that i can try. the wasp is the only disc i have found that can handle the wind with any kind of throw. innova has the champion gator which i love but it is more overstable and does not glide as much. i will try your suggestions. keep them coming. thanks

Try a Star Shark or Champion Shark. By far the most Overstable Mid-Range That I have ever thrown, and Predictable.

I've had luck with the E Element-X for that slot in my bag...has stayed stable to overstable in any wind...might be what you are looking for...

I found the Gator is Sweet overstable comparable to wasp or may be even a Drone, so try a Champ Gator is you can get your hands on one it is very overstable and awsome.

Hey Dave forgot to ask earlier but I decided to retire my 170g CE Leopard that was my roller and easy turnover disc to learn to throw something new. The Champ Leopard doesnt compare to how easy the CE flips and for easy tunnel shots and short rollers is there something out that compares, may be a Champion Panther it feels flat and has similar rim?

Dave--have you tried the sirius orion ls? what did you think?



Yes. It was a long narrow s flyer for me. But I was just playing catch with it at around 110 yds. I didn't do any serious testing with it at a course.

Hey Dave forgot to ask earlier but I decided to retire my 170g CE Leopard that was my roller and easy turnover disc to learn to throw something new. The Champ Leopard doesnt compare to how easy the CE flips and for easy tunnel shots and short rollers is there something out that compares, may be a Champion Panther it feels flat and has similar rim?



The Champion Panther will work in and flip easier than the Champion Leopard and will do the job. You could work a new Champion or Star Leopard in as a straight flyer for a year or two until it starts flipping, or get a Pro Leopard, if any are available. The Pro Leopard will work in quickly.

Great job on the newer runs of the Teerex, they fly much more as advertised than my super stable first runs.

I have noticed that nearly every pro in Florida still has a CE TL in their bag primarily for low ceiling shots that have a tight S curve and end dead straight (If you've been to FL, you know how often this shot occurs). I am looking for a less expensive and more easily replacable alternative. I have thrown the Star TL, but it does not have the speed or range of the CE TL, and it was hard to keep it really low. Maybe the SOLS would fit the bill?

Dave--have you tried the sirius orion ls? what did you think?



Yes. It was a long narrow s flyer for me. But I was just playing catch with it at around 110 yds. I didn't do any serious testing with it at a course.



He plays catch at 110 and I have to haul the mail to get there. If you're interested in a shorter opinion :D
The SOLS is (at my distance) a straight flyer. (RHBH and more line drive) The turn to the right at high speed is much less than a Star SW...more in line with a Star Valk. The low speed fade is more in line with the Star SW. If I touch the SOLS with a bit of anny, I get a looong slooow right hand turn that MIGHT turn back over before it hits the ground. Distances between the three are about the same. The one that goes the bigger distance is the one that I actually throw correctly :D

Star SL or Z Tracker

Hey Dave forgot to ask earlier but I decided to retire my 170g CE Leopard that was my roller and easy turnover disc to learn to throw something new. The Champ Leopard doesnt compare to how easy the CE flips and for easy tunnel shots and short rollers is there something out that compares, may be a Champion Panther it feels flat and has similar rim?



Never been a leopard fan until the star came out!!! Wow, this disc is a great control turnover driver with very predictable finishes. I've been able to easily manuvuer holes with tight turnovers that need to hyzer-finish or drop down!

Great job on this disc! I don't know how I got by without one!!! :cool:

Republic of Texas....what a joke.



All hail the mighty state.

Star SL or Z Tracker



I've thrown 2 Z Trackers and both had a lot of low speed fade, more than I'm looking for. I also had to give them height to get any distance. The Star SL turns a little too fast for me once its broken in enough to consider for such shots. It needs more room left to right to work out of the S.

Star SL or Z Tracker



I've thrown 2 Z Trackers and both had a lot of low speed fade, more than I'm looking for. I also had to give them height to get any distance. The Star SL turns a little too fast for me once its broken in enough to consider for such shots. It needs more room left to right to work out of the S.




I throw TLs alot. The Tracker definitely has more fade (i.e. is low speed overstable). I also throw the Star SL, but it is way faster and fades/skips left at the very end of its flight, definitely moreso than a TL.

I have a CE TL, but I actually prefer a CFR TL. It is just a bit more stable after broken in. Yes, the CE TL is an expensive habit! Lucky I have never lost my 1st runner!

But the CFR version is fairly easy to get.

-E

Yeah I throw CFR TL's - I love em

Yeah I throw CFR TL's - I love em



You could also try a QJLS. Try to find an Opaque version. The clears and cloudy clears are more TL-ish in that they handle a little more torque . The Opaques are like long CE Leopards, or beat CE TLs.

Yeah I throw CFR TL's - I love em



You could also try a QJLS. Try to find an Opaque version. The clears and cloudy clears are more TL-ish in that they handle a little more torque . The Opaques are like long CE Leopards, or beat CE TLs.



I currently throw a clear beat QJLS for this type of shot, but it does not fly as consistent or smooth as the CE TL. It does not glide like the TL, but can fly on similar lines. I have a hard time letting up enough to throw the opaque ones under tight control. I think I might try a CFR TL. I didn't care much for it in the glow plastic when I threw it, but it was new and that was a long time ago.

What should I look for in a CFR TL? Clear or opaque, flat or domey? Thanks.

i primarily throw innova but have found that the z-wasp is my most reliable mid range disc. i can throw it 300 easy and can muscle it 350. it also holds up excellent in the wind. i have not fouhnd an innova mid range that compares to this. i love innova and would love to have an all innova bag but i don't want to hurt my game as i have been improving lately. any suggestions?



Star Shark. :D

For even more stability , Champion Shark.

Even more , Champion Gator.

Even more , Champion Whippet.

Dave - what day of the USDGC do the '07 ROCS go on sale this year?

Anythoughts on making the hotstamp for Champion or Star Plastic with the same cool graphics that are on the DX plastic.

I have asked the guys in my league that throw Innova their opinion and they agree with me that the higher quality discs should have the better graphics.

i primarily throw innova but have found that the z-wasp is my most reliable mid range disc. i can throw it 300 easy and can muscle it 350. it also holds up excellent in the wind. i have not fouhnd an innova mid range that compares to this. i love innova and would love to have an all innova bag but i don't want to hurt my game as i have been improving lately. any suggestions?



Star Shark. :D

For even more stability , Champion Shark.

Even more , Champion Gator.

Even more , Champion Whippet.



Or, just find a ram and your problems are solved!

How are the CFR Rams coming dave? I've got a buyer for a "box" whenever you're ready! :D
As well, how are the reports of the durability of the hard-hitters (star firebird, monster) coming? I was thinking which would be cooler...a star ram or a champion ram. Then I started thinking, my ram is a hard-hitting spike hyzer disc. Would that kind of punishment beat the star ram in too much????

Thanks! See you in Rock Hill

(PS, what's the time table of the star spider...I'm wearing a bib just thinking about it!!!!!!)

clear and domey CFR TL's are my favorite, they are more stable than the stars

Durability on the Star Firebird is very good, definitely not a Champion disc......which is a good thing it is very similar to the one run of Pro Firbirds that were run a couple years ago.

Great Disc

Dave - what day of the USDGC do the '07 ROCS go on sale this year?



I think Saturday, but I will have to find out.

Durability on the Star Firebird is very good, definitely not a Champion disc......which is a good thing it is very similar to the one run of Pro Firbirds that were run a couple years ago.

Great Disc



I found the same thing to be true! :cool:

What should I look for in a CFR TL? Clear or opaque, flat or domey? Thanks.




If you dont care for the Glo plastic, Id say clear and domey. I agree with Smalls.

Dave, what Innova disc would you say the Orion LS is closest to? and what are its strengths?

also, do you have any new info on whether the Aurora MS will be release in Sirius plastic?

thanks for your time

Dave, what Innova disc would you say the Orion LS is closest to? and what are its strengths?

also, do you have any new info on whether the Aurora MS will be release in Sirius plastic?

thanks for your time



I believe the Aurora MS is scheduled to be run soon. I don't know when it will be released.

The Orion LS is probably closest to a Viking/Valkyrie with a little less low speed fade. It's strengths are that it is easy to grip/throw and has a narrow flight path with good range. It has the flight characteristic of a fairway driver with the range of a distance driver.

I think that the LF is way longer, but the LS is a good turn over driver.

I was looking at the list of PDGA approved discs on the website, and I don't see the Gremlin listed. Any idea why? Are these not legal for tourney play? Did I just miss it?




They were approved as the Sniper. I don't know why they are not also listed as the Gremlin.



does this mean that the gremlin = ching sniper?
if so then is it possible to bring back the tank?



Yes to both.



so then any idea on when the tank might come back

so then any idea on when the tank might come back

We have no current plans to bring the Tank back.

Hey Dave,
Any plans to bring back the original SE plastic in anything? I've been throwing SE TL's lately and absolutely love the plastic. Maybe something for CFR's? I'm sure there would be a lot of people who would love to see it.

Thanks!

Hey Dave,
Any plans to bring back the original SE plastic in anything? I've been throwing SE TL's lately and absolutely love the plastic. Maybe something for CFR's? I'm sure there would be a lot of people who would love to see it.

Thanks!



Star or pro is as close as you're going to get.

Hey Dave,
Any plans to bring back the original SE plastic in anything? I've been throwing SE TL's lately and absolutely love the plastic. Maybe something for CFR's? I'm sure there would be a lot of people who would love to see it.

Thanks!



There were several iterations of SE originally. We used the term SE for special editions, short runs, one time runs, etc.,which we later called limited edition. I believe the SE TL was one of the first candy discs. Red, I think. If so, that was an alloy plastic. We might try it again.

I love my se TL's for big anny's or sky roller's i would love to see those come back.

Hey Dave,

Who are the big winners this month for the CFR program? :D:confused: :D

Thanks Dave. That plastic seems to be in a category of its own. Star and pro just don't compare. I suppose I'll live if I never see it again. ;)

Dave,
First off, thanks for the Star TL. I picked one up at am worlds, and it is quickly becoming my #1 disc. Do you know of anywhere the star orcs are available in the 160-164 weights. I can't seem to find them. Everywhere I've found only has them in the 165 and up. I really like the orcs, and would love to pick up the star ones, but I really need the lower weights at this elevation (4500ft) Thanks.

All of this talk about the L's doesnt confuse me but i am a little lost. I just bought a nice see through green Teebird which is champion and i was wondering should i look at that as a Teebird X, A teebird, or a teebird L, Whats the advantage of throwing a Firebird L over a firebird X as i understand those are the only two types of firebirds right?? I've thrown pretty much all innova for years now and looked on this website and was astounded to see all the different types of one disc there are out there. I understood before this that every disc may be the same mold but flies different for different reasons but i dont know what to think about all my discs now. I just recently realized i could talk to dave on this forum and i plan on doing that a lot now. Thanks for any help you can give me dave. Keep up the great work. It's appreciated

Teebird: regular mold
TL: less stable / longer version of above (mold alteration)

Firebird (aka FX): regular mold
FL: less stable / longer version of above (mold alteration)

Eagle: (regular mold)
EL: longer / less stable version of the above

Starfire: (aka:SX) stable mold
Starfire-L: (aka SL, all Pro Starfires are SL's) longer / less stable version of above

the "L" stands fof Less Stable; Longer
there is a false rumor that the L stands for Leopard bottom, probably started because the "L" versions could be described as "Leopard-like" ...

one way to tell is by feeling the lower lip of the wing. if it is the flat it's the L; if it is more concave -- it's the regular mold or 'X'

in that vein, a Roadrunner is sort of a Valkyrie-L :eek:

Dave,
First off, thanks for the Star TL. I picked one up at am worlds, and it is quickly becoming my #1 disc. Do you know of anywhere the star orcs are available in the 160-164 weights. I can't seem to find them. Everywhere I've found only has them in the 165 and up. I really like the orcs, and would love to pick up the star ones, but I really need the lower weights at this elevation (4500ft) Thanks.



The Star Orcs were made down to 160. The first shipments to dealers did not include those weights. Discgolfvalues can get Star Orcs in those weights, but Mark is on vacation this week.

All of this talk about the L's doesnt confuse me but i am a little lost. I just bought a nice see through green Teebird which is champion and i was wondering should i look at that as a Teebird X, A teebird, or a teebird L, Whats the advantage of throwing a Firebird L over a firebird X as i understand those are the only two types of firebirds right?? I've thrown pretty much all innova for years now and looked on this website and was astounded to see all the different types of one disc there are out there. I understood before this that every disc may be the same mold but flies different for different reasons but i dont know what to think about all my discs now. I just recently realized i could talk to dave on this forum and i plan on doing that a lot now. Thanks for any help you can give me dave. Keep up the great work. It's appreciated



The info that AviarX has given is correct except for the Eagle X being the regular version. The L is the normal version for the Eagle. That is also the case for several other discs like the Wraith or TeeRex which both have X version capability too. Some discs start out in an X type mold as their normal configuration like the TeeBird, Viper, and Whippet. The Viper and Whippet can be made into a more stable configuration which we designate Viper X or Whippet X even though the normal mold is an X (overstable) type.

Hey Dave,

Who are the big winners this month for the CFR program? :D:confused: :D



Innova T-Shirt Jeff Pruett
3-Pack Newly Released Discs Jeff Brockman
3-Disc INNOVA Training Set Khyber Easton
USDGC DVD Michael Ruzicka
2006 USDGC Partners Pack Brian Frey
DISCatcher� Mini Target Donny Olow
Champions DVD Bill Maury-Holmes
INNOVA Merchandise Pack Kevin Reilly
2005 Champions Signature Disc RT San Antonio TX
DISCatcher� Traveler Target matt Elcerrito CA
INNOVA Ball Cap Gary Duke

Dave,
First off, thanks for the Star TL. I picked one up at am worlds, and it is quickly becoming my #1 disc. Do you know of anywhere the star orcs are available in the 160-164 weights. I can't seem to find them. Everywhere I've found only has them in the 165 and up. I really like the orcs, and would love to pick up the star ones, but I really need the lower weights at this elevation (4500ft) Thanks.



The Star Orcs were made down to 160. The first shipments to dealers did not include those weights. Discgolfvalues can get Star Orcs in those weights, but Mark is on vacation this week.



Thanks, Suzette. I will look into it in a couple of weeks, being that I just spent $180 on Star plastic for the hubby and I. He says that he's glad I got into disc golf, it's alot easier to talk me into buying more plastic :D

So what is the deal with the new MAX. Just looking for some info. I've got two on the way from discgolfvalues.com

T Dogg- Dave can't help you with fantasy football :D

I think T-DOGG would be better off with a devilhawk! :eek:

Hey Dave,

Who are the big winners this month for the CFR program? :D:confused: :D



Innova T-Shirt Jeff Pruett
3-Pack Newly Released Discs Jeff Brockman
3-Disc INNOVA Training Set Khyber Easton
USDGC DVD Michael Ruzicka
2006 USDGC Partners Pack Brian Frey
DISCatcher� Mini Target Donny Olow
Champions DVD Bill Maury-Holmes
INNOVA Merchandise Pack Kevin Reilly
2005 Champions Signature Disc RT San Antonio TX
DISCatcher� Traveler Target matt Elcerrito CA
INNOVA Ball Cap Gary Duke



:DDISCatcher� Mini Target Donny Olow :D

Awesome Don!!!

So what is the deal with the new MAX. Just looking for some info. I've got two on the way from discgolfvalues.com



I believe there is a thread that has players evaluating the Max on this discussion board that you can check out. From my point of view, it is a longer faster Firebird.

Any plans for the skeeter in any plastic other than dx? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

DISCatcher� Traveler Target matt Elcerrito CA



WOOHOO!!!

MK

Hi Dave,

Do you know when the new Innova bag will be available for purchase?

Any chance there will be a prototype shown at the USDGC?

Thanks.

Any plans for the skeeter in any plastic other than dx? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Star Skeeter

Hi Dave,

Do you know when the new Innova bag will be available for purchase?

Any chance there will be a prototype shown at the USDGC?

Thanks.



I don't know for sure, but I don't see why there wouldn't be a protype at the USDGC. It hasn't been listed yet, so I guess it's not for sale yet. Don't know when the date for that is.

Hey Dave, the new Innova Bag, is that the one Barry is touring with right now. That thing is friggin sweet...

Does anyone know if those Dave Feldberg 2005 USDGC Champion Star Wraiths are still available anywhere? Checked EBAY and I'm assuming since there were only 100 made, I don't have much of a chance of finding one.

Any plans for the skeeter in any plastic other than dx? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Star Skeeter



WHEN WILL THESE BEAUTIES BE COMING OUT? :) :) :cool::cool:/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dave, does Innova give a bonus to sponsored players who break the World Distance Record, and do you know what Christian Sandstrom now throws for max D?

Does anyone know if those Dave Feldberg 2005 USDGC Champion Star Wraiths are still available anywhere? Checked EBAY and I'm assuming since there were only 100 made, I don't have much of a chance of finding one.





Try Jay at HukLab. He had several over the summer and may have some left. His were signed.

Thanks a lot for the help, I'll look into that...happens to be in my neck of the woods at that. Considering I live a couple miles from Dave, I've been hoping to catch him on a course, but that hasen't happened. Those guys must spend all of their time in a field somewhere.

How do I sign up for this CFR program that you just mentioned?

Star skeeter? any time frame. I love my skeeter. A star version? Yeah!!!

Any plans for the skeeter in any plastic other than dx? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Star Skeeter



WHEN WILL THESE BEAUTIES BE COMING OUT? :) :) :cool::cool:/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



They are already in the tournament fundraising section, but we will put them in mainstream when we have the time to do a full run. Probably late this year, or early next.

Dave, does Innova give a bonus to sponsored players who break the World Distance Record, and do you know what Christian Sandstrom now throws for max D?



I don't think we have a standing bounty, but we have given $5000 in the past when Christian broke the record. We also gave a bounty to Ken Jarvis for temporarily holding the record. Having said this, I don't see why anyone who broke and held the Open record would not get that bounty if we used their likeness for advertising as we do Christian Sandstrom's now. If another company did break the record, we would offer a standing bounty. Probably more than $5000.

How do I sign up for this CFR program that you just mentioned?

Star skeeter? any time frame. I love my skeeter. A star version? Yeah!!!



Mark Molnar at discgolfvalues.com might have Star Skeeters for some CFR program as he does sell them for some tournies. You could ask him about the CFR program too.

and do you know what Christian Sandstrom now throws for max D?



Broken in dx Beasts, weight unknown

Dave, does Innova give a bonus to sponsored players who break the World Distance Record, and do you know what Christian Sandstrom now throws for max D?



I don't think we have a standing bounty, but we have given $5000 in the past when Christian broke the record. We also gave a bounty to Ken Jarvis for temporarily holding the record. Having said this, I don't see why anyone who broke and held the Open record would not get that bounty if we used their likeness for advertising as we do Christian Sandstrom's now. If another company did break the record, we would offer a standing bounty. Probably more than $5000.




If another company did break the record, we would offer a standing bounty



:eek: :D :D

Dave any news on what the spectator rocs will be this year at the USDGCs? thanks

: ) :

Dave any news on what the spectator rocs will be this year at the USDGCs? thanks

: ) :



No idea on hotstamps. The plastic is the stiffer Star stuff. The mold is the Rancho Mold. I don't know what specific colors they will offer, but we ran gold, silver, white, red, blue, black, and some swirly Star stiffies, and red in Champion stiffies.

Any plans for a STAR Eagle?

TThanks

Any plans for a STAR Eagle?

TThanks



Yes. It's been on hold for a while due to production problems, but will be in the mix when we can schedule it. Probably over the winter.

Dave, On Innova's front page The Star Leopard is list as 165g -175g. if you go to the Leapard page it shows 170g-175g. My son Andrew likes 150g Leopards, Is there any plans to produce all wieghts in the Star Leopard???

Dave, I got a few Innova discs from winning the putting contest at the Riverside Rumble this weekend, and one of the discs has the original Innova star stamp and the letter code for the disc says "I" or "L", it is a midrange of some kind. What is it?

There exist 150-class STAR Leopards. I've got 4 (148, 149, 150, 150) & have been "auditioning" one in my bag for a couple of weeks. I got mine from frisbeerancher.

Thanks, I will check it out.

Dave, On Innova's front page The Star Leopard is list as 165g -175g. if you go to the Leapard page it shows 170g-175g. My son Andrew likes 150g Leopards, Is there any plans to produce all wieghts in the Star Leopard???



We are unable to consistently run Star Leopards in 150 g. The Star Leopards can be run as low as 160 gm. I am not sure why they are not listed. They should have been run.

Dave, I got a few Innova discs from winning the putting contest at the Riverside Rumble this weekend, and one of the discs has the original Innova star stamp and the letter code for the disc says "I" or "L", it is a midrange of some kind. What is it?



Sorry, I'm not sure. L does stand for Leopard, if it is not FL, EL,TL, or SL.

Thanks for the info. on the Star Leopard.

Dave, I got a few Innova discs from winning the putting contest at the Riverside Rumble this weekend, and one of the discs has the original Innova star stamp and the letter code for the disc says "I" or "L", it is a midrange of some kind. What is it?



Could it be a Lynx?

Dave, I got a few Innova discs from winning the putting contest at the Riverside Rumble this weekend, and one of the discs has the original Innova star stamp and the letter code for the disc says "I" or "L", it is a midrange of some kind. What is it?


Is it DX or a higher grade plastic?

So the Star Firebirds are FX mold are the Star Mosters the X mold or the L mold?

Dave, I got a few Innova discs from winning the putting contest at the Riverside Rumble this weekend, and one of the discs has the original Innova star stamp and the letter code for the disc says "I" or "L", it is a midrange of some kind. What is it?



Sorry, I'm not sure. L does stand for Leopard, if it is not FL, EL,TL, or SL.



It is definitely a midrange of some kind. The "I" or "L" that I mentioned was a bit misleading, it is more like this "|". It is definitely not a roc, or a shark. And I checked it against a goblin and sheeter, and it doesn't look at all like one of those either. Just curious, as it has the original Innova Star stamp on it.

Dave, I got a few Innova discs from winning the putting contest at the Riverside Rumble this weekend, and one of the discs has the original Innova star stamp and the letter code for the disc says "I" or "L", it is a midrange of some kind. What is it?


Is it DX or a higher grade plastic?



Definitely DX.

I'm gonna go with Lynx. I'll bet you a nickel.

Roc/Buzzz diameter or smaller? What's the wing like? :confused:

I was wondering whats the Rancho Mold and what other kinds of molds are there. Thanks for any help

There's more experienced Roc-heads than me, but there's an Ontario mold, a San Marino mold, and the most recent Rancho mold...not sure when these things date to...

Hey, Dave i was wondering if you've ever thought about doing scholarship for outstanding high school students in their disc golf ability. Maybe in the future any time soon? Just a hopeful/curious avid disc golfer

Yeah that would be cool but I'm sure I wouldn't be able to get one. :DFor the same reason I could never be an Edge representative.

what is new from innova for the winter of 2006?

There's more experienced Roc-heads than me, but there's an Ontario mold, a San Marino mold, and the most recent Rancho mold...not sure when these things date to...


1st Roc 1988, 21,2cm
San Marino (1989-1994) Large diameter Roc 21,7 cm
Ontario (1995-1997) 21,7 cm
Classic Roc (1996-) 21,2cm, re-make of the original Roc, very similar to XD.
Rancho Cucamonga (Proto 1997,1998->) 21,7 cm, there are variations among the Ranchos, blunt nose, sharp nose and old big bead. I am not sure about those, Dave can clear that out.

Dave, I got a few Innova discs from winning the putting contest at the Riverside Rumble this weekend, and one of the discs has the original Innova star stamp and the letter code for the disc says "I" or "L", it is a midrange of some kind. What is it?




I checked it out. It is probably a 1. It was the original designation for a Goblin. It might not look like a Goblin if all you have seen of a Goblin before was a Star. DX has a different shrink pattern that makes the nose look thinner.

So the Star Firebirds are FX mold are the Star Mosters the X mold or the L mold?



Star Monsters are the normal mold, which is L type.

I was wondering whats the Rancho Mold and what other kinds of molds are there. Thanks for any help



Rancho Mold is a designation for one of the Roc configurations. It has the Rancho Cucamonga engraving on the bottom and is the most stable/overstable configuration. The Ontario type Roc is a less overstable type. The San Marino was the original Roc engraving but is the same configuration as the Ontario.

Hey, Dave i was wondering if you've ever thought about doing scholarship for outstanding high school students in their disc golf ability. Maybe in the future any time soon? Just a hopeful/curious avid disc golfer



We don't have anything now, but maybe in the future.

what is new from innova for the winter of 2006?



Mainly we will be trying to fill the holes in our line we were unable to make until now. Things like DX drivers and Star discs.

Dave,

Any status yet on the Star Bead Big Aviar?

Josh

btw....I love the Star Firebirds....

what is new from innova for the winter of 2006?



Mainly we will be trying to fill the holes in our line we were unable to make until now. Things like DX drivers and Star discs.



Star Whippets, perhaps? :D

I sure hope this means DX Starfire-X's, I am still convinced that this disc would break in to have a teebird like flight.

Dave, what disc (driver, mid or putter) is the most popular among Team members, overall? Or rather, what disc do the most team members throw? If you would have to guess, please do. How about most popular driver? Most popular mid?
Thanks!

I'm guessing the big bead aviar.

roc teebird aviar id guess

Dave,

Any status yet on the Star Bead Big Aviar?

Josh

btw....I love the Star Firebirds....



Nothing yet, sorry.

Dave, what disc (driver, mid or putter) is the most popular among Team members, overall? Or rather, what disc do the most team members throw? If you would have to guess, please do. How about most popular driver? Most popular mid?
Thanks!



Roc and Aviar for sure. Driver TeeBird. After that in no order: Leopard, Firebird, Eagle next. Then in no particular order: TeeRex, Wraith, Orc, Beast, Valkyrie, Sidewinder, Roadrunner, Monster, Starfire, Banshee, SL, TL. Pretty much all the drivers we make show up in our team members bags.

Thanks. What are you throwing now?

Thanks. What are you throwing now?



Aviar, Champion Coyote, Champion Leopard, Champion Viking are my staple discs. Star Shark is a new mid range. Star Wraith, Star TeeRex, Star Max, Star/Champion Beast, Star TeeBird.

Dave,

I don't know if you see how many of each disc is sold each month/year, but which disc is the biggest surprise and disappointment in the sales dept(in your opinion).

Any Possibility of Star Whippets ?

Dave,
Any idea when we can expect the dx Teerex in regular production? I am really looking forward to this one.
Thanks in advance.

Dave,

I don't know if you see how many of each disc is sold each month/year, but which disc is the biggest surprise and disappointment in the sales dept(in your opinion).



The biggest dissappointment has got to be the Champion Viking. The biggest surprise is probably the I-dyed discs.

Any Possibility of Star Whippets ?



Definitely possible, but not soon with our present production crunch.

Dave,
Any idea when we can expect the dx Teerex in regular production? I am really looking forward to this one.
Thanks in advance.



The DX TeeRex has been scheduled, but we haven't gotten to it yet. Probably by November.

The biggest disappointment has got to be the Champion Viking.



Use mine regularly. Although my Leopard, Valk or T-Bird can mostly handle shots where I might have used the Viking. It's important to have purple and yellow ones for Minnesota this time of year. :)

I love my Champion Viking. A very dependable performer.

Hey Dave, I had the opportunity for my hands to grace the presence of a Star Max last night, when are they going to be available on the innovadiscs web site?
P.S.- that disc was made to be in my hands.....

The biggest dissappointment has got to be the Champion Viking.



Would you mind spending a few more words on this. You have the Orc, Starfire and Valk surrounding the Viking (basically). All of which are highly favored if this message board is any indication.
Who is missing out by not having a Viking?

One of the local pros here in IC throws a Viking, and can throw that thing straight for a country mile.

One of the local pros here in IC throws a Viking, and can throw that thing straight for a country mile.




Who?

Dave,

I don't know if you see how many of each disc is sold each month/year, but which disc is the biggest surprise and disappointment in the sales dept(in your opinion).



The biggest dissappointment has got to be the Champion Viking. The biggest surprise is probably the I-dyed discs.



The Viking is the best Valkyrie made.

One of the local pros here in IC throws a Viking, and can throw that thing straight for a country mile.




Who?



Harper.

One of the local pros here in IC throws a Viking, and can throw that thing straight for a country mile.


Who?


Harper.


Yep. If he can't reach it with a roc (which really isn't that much), he reaches for his viking.

The biggest dissappointment has got to be the Champion Viking.



Would you mind spending a few more words on this. You have the Orc, Starfire and Valk surrounding the Viking (basically). All of which are highly favored if this message board is any indication.
Who is missing out by not having a Viking?



I need my Viking because it is the longest straightest driver I have. The next would be a TL, I think. We have other drivers that can go long and straight in no wind situations, but they tend to get unpredictable in the wind. It is similar to the Valkyrie in the air, but more predictable. It will turn up without flipping over. It lasts for a long time. It is easy to grip. It flies well for sidearm also. Sales don't match the utility and performance of this disc. It's sister disc, the Valkyrie, on the other hand, is one of our best sellers, but it's no longer in my bag. It has been replaced by the Beast or Sidewinder depending on the course/situation.

The biggest dissappointment has got to be the Champion Viking.



Would you mind spending a few more words on this. You have the Orc, Starfire and Valk surrounding the Viking (basically). All of which are highly favored if this message board is any indication.
Who is missing out by not having a Viking?



I need my Viking because it is the longest straightest driver I have. The next would be a TL, I think. We have other drivers that can go long and straight in no wind situations, but they tend to get unpredictable in the wind. It is similar to the Valkyrie in the air, but more predictable. It will turn up without flipping over. It lasts for a long time. It is easy to grip. It flies well for sidearm also. Sales don't match the utility and performance of this disc. It's sister disc, the Valkyrie, on the other hand, is one of our best sellers, but it's no longer in my bag. It has been replaced by the Beast or Sidewinder depending on the course/situation.



Thanks. I have a Star Valk, but I would never have considered the Viking to be a disc that I could carry. I always thought it to be too over stable for me.
:cool:

I dont know if this info can be found anywhere, but what do the numbers look like for the new Star Max?

Hey Dave, I had the opportunity for my hands to grace the presence of a Star Max last night, when are they going to be available on the innovadiscs web site?
P.S.- that disc was made to be in my hands.....



They are currently available as a fundraiser. I am not sure when or if it will go mainstream.

I dont know if this info can be found anywhere, but what do the numbers look like for the new Star Max?



11, 4, 0, 4

How does it compare to the tee rex at 11 5 0 4? They must be very similar. Is it really that much more overstable?

How does it compare to the tee rex at 11 5 0 4? They must be very similar. Is it really that much more overstable?



From my experience, it is that much more overstable. I would compare a Tee rex as an 11 speed teebird and a Max as an 11 speed firebird. That is a generalization, but the best analogy I can think of.

That is a pretty good analogy, thanks. I just had in my mind with the tee rex being 11 5 0 4 that a Max would maybe be a 11 4 1 4. Anyways I cant wait to get my hands on one....

Any Possibility of Star Whippets ?



Definitely possible, but not soon with our present production crunch.



Thanks Dave. Whenever you get a chance !!!!! :D

Donny O.

Any Possibility of Star Whippets ?



Definitely possible, but not soon with our present production crunch.



Thanks Dave. Whenever you get a chance !!!!! :D

Donny O.



Yes, Thanks!
We will be waiting eargerly!!

IF it is more stable than a Tee Rex I need it, give it to me!!!

How does it compare to the tee rex at 11 5 0 4? They must be very similar. Is it really that much more overstable?



From my experience, it is that much more overstable. I would compare a Tee rex as an 11 speed teebird and a Max as an 11 speed firebird. That is a generalization, but the best analogy I can think of.



I agree. The number don't capture the difference as well as the Firebird TeeBird analogy. The TeeRex will stay on its line longer than the Max. The Max also requires a little more power and nose control to operate properly unless you just want a spike hyzer or overhead. The Max is more bullet proof in the wind too.

Dave,

What would a Viking give someone with 300' driving power that a TeeBird doesn't?

Thanks.

....a new disc.

I'd say probably about 30' and a little more lateral movement, especially on the low speed fade.

1st Roc 1988, 21,2cm
San Marino (1989-1994) Large diameter Roc 21,7 cm
Ontario (1995-1997) 21,7 cm
Classic Roc (1996-) 21,2cm, re-make of the original Roc, very similar to XD.
Rancho Cucamonga (Proto 1997,1998->) 21,7 cm, there are variations among the Ranchos, blunt nose, sharp nose and old big bead. I am not sure about those, Dave can clear that out.


Which of these eras would be the discs that are commonly referred to as 'big bird rocs'? The ones I'm thinking of have the bird facing the right-side of the disc with the word ROC in small type on the left-side...

Thanks,

sleepy

1st Roc 1988, 21,2cm
San Marino (1989-1994) Large diameter Roc 21,7 cm
Ontario (1995-1997) 21,7 cm
Classic Roc (1996-) 21,2cm, re-make of the original Roc, very similar to XD.
Rancho Cucamonga (Proto 1997,1998->) 21,7 cm, there are variations among the Ranchos, blunt nose, sharp nose and old big bead. I am not sure about those, Dave can clear that out.


Which of these eras would be the discs that are commonly referred to as 'big bird rocs'? The ones I'm thinking of have the bird facing the right-side of the disc with the word ROC in small type on the left-side...

Thanks,

sleepy



I have one Ontario with that stamp, but I think there are San Marinos and Ranchos with a similar stamp.

I have a few rock's but an expert.

The San Marino and Ontario Have the same Big Bird Stamp both have two rings around the stamp.the Rancho has a similar big bird stamp except the rings are broken not compelete circles. that is in DX Plastic

Sorry that was to read " I am not a Rock expert" I have many ROC's, Can't say how many some one will tell my Wife.

Dave,

What would a Viking give someone with 300' driving power that a TeeBird doesn't?

Thanks.



A straighter slightly longer flight. TeeBirds are a little more high speed stable and low speed overstable. This uses more fairway width for slower throws. TeeBirds have more carry and less speed.