hawkgammon, the original rating was +1, +2.

Dave, I tried one of the new Teebirds this weekend and they are great! I love that plastic. I am really wanting to throw a TL in this plastic.

What is the expected release date on the Pro TL?

Thanks.

Pro line Gremlin is not in the works at present



Dave, I hope I'm not asking the same question but is the Champion Gremlin going to be out soon?

Dave, I also love the new SE/Pro plastic! I can't wait to try some other molds in this plastic... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif If you're taking votes, a Valk/Viking/Beast/Orc type would be nice.

I have a question about "flash" (the excess plastic from molding) on some of your discs (esp your older molds, like the Eagle and the Aviar.) Are there people that prefer it that way or could you guys finish off the bottom edge like the Rocs? When its broken in, does the flashing act like the fuzz on a tennis ball, breaking up the turbulent flow and reducing drag? I may be imagining things, but I swear that my CE Eagle is flying faster and longer now that the flashing is a bit frayed. :DOn the other hand, I couldn't use my Aviar until I sanded off the sharp bottom edge...

Dave,

Just got myself the new PRO Teebird, man this plastic is awesome! I read somewhere Valkyries are coming next, any other discs you anticipate releasing in this plastic soon??

Wynne

Kid Roc, I am not sure of the release date, but it might be released as a Millenium disc.

Champion Gremlin is out of the plans right now.

kenja, I don't know anyone who prefers the flash, and I don't think it would do anything positive for the flight of the disc once it was fuzzy. As for the SE/Pro. First up will be Valks and Beasts. Already tested the Valk in 150 and it is good. Beast test tomorrow. Leopard will follow that.

The TL might be released as a millenium disc??? which one is that exactly?? :confused: thanks dave

Already tested the Valk in 150 and it is good. Beast test tomorrow. Leopard will follow that.



Sounds like a rough week dave . :D

I personally found that flashing makes my drivers and mids more finicky. Like thay are more prone to slight mistakes in height attitude (nose-up or down-ness). Now I remove all the flashing from my discs and they seem more forgiving.

Already tested the Valk in 150 and it is good. Beast test tomorrow. Leopard will follow that.



Sounds like a rough week dave . :D



It's a dirty job, but someones gotta do it :cool:

Champion Gremlin is out of the plans right now.



boo

Dave, I tracked down a 4-time JK Aviar-x that is the softer second run, and to my surprise it is Orange. I had thought Aviar-x's only came in White and occasionally Blue and Yellow. Are a lot of Orange ones being made, and do you expect the colors to stay the same when you start making 5 time JK Aviar-x's? Also, I am very happy to see the softness back. In fact this is the softest Aviar-x I have ever seen. Are they all going to be super soft or are you tweaking them back after the mistake with the stiffer plastic? Thanks for your time.

Jaymo, it will probably be called TLS

Dave is that a joke or is this for real?

Got a chance to check out the new SE Teebirds. In my opinion, I think they are very similar to the first runs of the 10x Teebirds. Very grippy plastic...a little domey...nice and stable. This disc will be a nice addition to the bag so I don't have to worry about losing my 10x's. Can't wait for the next run of SE disc's to come out. The SE Aviar seems like the bead is between a SB and a BB. Has anybody else noticed this?

Anyway...thanks for bringing back the SE plastic Dave.

Now lets see the Old CE plastic come back ! hehe Just kidding!

Disc Golf, just sent you a PM

WOW ive always fantasized about a millenium teeberd! Now if only discraft would run some Z Demons! :cool:

You can get a H-Demon now according to Gateway's website. The new stamp is pretty sweet too.

dave do you happen to have a timeline on when the SE/Pro leopards will be coming out I am down to my last one.

topdog, I think it will be in about 1 month. We get the new shipment of plastic in two weeks, and it will take a week to run them and a few days to stamp them. After that it is just shipping time.

robj, orange is rare and we have already made the next run and it is all white.

rocco, notta joke, but it was just a suggestion for a name that makes sense: ms, ls, jls, tls,

robj sorry I didn't see the other part of your question. Yes the JKs will remain softer.

I heard the TeeBird TL is going to be renamed the Millennium Falcon....haha.
That would be cool if they made it another disc all together, it is rather confusing for most people, but then again that is what gives it appeal.
I wonder if the TeeBird TL had a totally differnt name from the beginning if it would be as popular and saught after as it is today???? ;)

I bet it would because it's not about the name. It's about how the disc flies. Another example of this would be the orc (terrible name but best new disc imho).

I didn't mean just the name, I meant the whole marketing of it..like a true Special Edition TeeBird and how there is only a limited supply of them. Like the C.E. and Super Rocs? Because only a few are made everyone wants them even though they might not be the best discs????

I know it is all about the discs...but if Innova got such a great response from Players about the TL why wouldn't it become a regular production disc with a different name, and not just a CFR or SE limited Run?
I think it is great that it is going to become a regualar production disc. But I still bought a CFR Glo TL just to see what the TL hype was about so they got me too...it is great marketing, regaurdless of the greatness of the disc.
The real shame is, the people making money off of old TLs are the ones selling them on ebay, not the ones who made them.

I know it is all about the discs...but if Innova got such a great response from Players about the TL why wouldn't it become a regular production disc with a different name, and not just a CFR or SE limited Run?



Because they are either wanting to make the money themselves (the company) or they are helping to make money for the tournaments (as is the case of the CFR's). As far as the true Super Rocs/CE plastic discs/SE Teebirds I think everyone wants them because they have the reputation of being some of the greatest discs. I personally believe that the discs are some of the best on the market (these are the molds that I throw). Also, I don't think it's a shame people are making money selling the discs on ebay. It's a shame people would pay that much for them.

robj, orange is rare and we have already made the next run and it is all white.



Dave when you say the next run, do you mean you are already making 5x JK Aviars?

imho, I think Innova East ought to sell the stiffer 4x JK Aviars at a misprint rate so they can move them and make way for the new soft 5x's which ought to sell at a much faster clip.

Dave, I recently got a 4x JK Aviar that seems to have similar plastic as the Pro Rhyno's that were out before the champion plastic. Is this the softness that everybody wants or associates with the JK? I guess others that throw the soft JKs can chyme in on this one also.

All the JK's I have thrown have been 4x's some blue some white, but they are nowhere near as soft as the Pro Soft Ryhno. I just ordered a couple more JKs so it should be interesting to see the softness.
Later,
Matt

Dave:

Excellent Job on the new SE/KC plastic! We love it!

Dave, I have a question about the Q-sentinal. Have you thrown this disc, or have you had any reports on what type of stability we should expect. Maybe you could compare it to another Innova disc that is currently on the market... like the roc or shark (something like that) I would like to know more about it. and when we can expect it to be available up here in Canada. Thanks again. :D

Dave, here is a great name for the TL. The Titan. I have always thought that would be a great name for a disc.

We already made the run after the stiffer ones. It has been going out from the west coast for several months. I guess the east coast is still working through the remains of the last run. The softness is softer than a regular putter but stiffer than a super soft omega. Definitely softer than the blues.

Hello Dave,

I'm wondering if you can clear something up for me.

I believe that you stated previously that the new Pro Aviar is a Big Bead Aviar. Over in the 2004 CE Roc thread, however, several presumably knowledgable people, including an employee of Innova East, have stated that the new Pro Aviar is a Small Bead. Were both Big Bead and Small Bead Pro Aviars run, and if so, which will be the regular production model?

As always, thanks for taking the time to reply.

A test run of small beads were run, and I ave one of them. they were exactly that, a test run, and are not going to be the Pro Aviar.

a jls is so similar to a tl. isn't it practically the same disc?

A test run of small beads were run, and I ave one of them. they were exactly that, a test run, and are not going to be the Pro Aviar.



Thanks, Matt. I was going to buy up every one I could lay my hands on if the Pro was going to be SB going forward because I've been consistently nailing putts with mine that I had to treat as upshots with my 10xes.

Dave, any thoughts on how the Pro Aviar compares to other Big Bead Aviars? It seems to me to be slightly faster and slightly more low speed overstable and to have more carry and glide than the other BB models, and it seems to take less effort to throw and to be easier to control.

fore, yes both were run, but they were mixed up by the hotstampers or someone not listening. The small bead are Omega APs. The big bead are the Pro Aviars. The Omegas are straighter flying at low speeds. The Pros are slightly overstable.

rh, the jls and tl are similar, but the tls is faster and takes a headwind better. The jls is a better fairway driver and finesse disc/roller and the tls is a better off the tee driver that can take more torque.

true dave. i guess i do find the tl is slightly more stable at high speed.

Hey Dave, are there any future plans for running beadless Aviars any time soon??? I love em, and they are getting harder to find unthrown at any reasonable price. Just curious, thanks!! :)

aren't the glow aviars beadless?

drdre, if you are talking about the small bead we run several all the time. Regular DX putter and classic. Omega SS and AP. True beadless have not been run in years and there are no plants to remake it. Sorry

oops sorry drdye, I typoed and made you a rapper or something

Drdre, hehe :D

Yeah I was refering to the beadless, not the small bead. To bad, sure love the beadless!!! What if I got a petition and a bunch of people signed it, then would you guys(Innova) consider it??? High hopes probably.

robj, orange is rare and we have already made the next run and it is all white.



Dave, the orange JK Aviar-x I found through a west coast vendor is definitely the softer second run of 4 times (not the first run that were mistakenly made stiff), so do you mean you are now making a third run of 4 times, or do you mean a new run of 5 times?

Rob, the current run was done last year and is soft. I imagine they have been stamped with 5 time, but I don't know.

Thanks Dave, I have already seen the 5 time JK Valkyries, and look forward to seeing the soft 5 time JK Aviar-x. I'm not really a collector, but the Aviar-x is my favorite disc and I want to save a mint one from each version; I'll be pulling for Juliana to earn a six-time and a seven time version in the future :D

With that in mind, I am glad to hear she recently married someone who shares her love for disc golf.

Dave,

Hi there. I forgot but what will the next disc be coming out in the new First Run Pro SE/KC plastic? & When is that going to be? Thanks in advance!! The Aviars/Teebirds are sweet Dave! 2 Thumbs up!

discgolf, I was planning on running Beasts and Valks, but my partners might have other plans. In the air right now.

Thank You!

I love my new SE Teebird, Dave :D! The plastic feels great and grippy, the disc carrys well with the dome and is still stable.

Great work on a great disc... looking forward to whatever is coming next.

Hey Dave, i'm sorry if this has been asked before but I was wondering if this new SE plastic will be run on a regular basis? That is, next year will Pro Aviars and Pro Teebirds be run again and the year after that and so on and so on, or is this just a one run/year type thing, or will they be run for a certain time until the plastic runs out?

A test run of small beads were run, and I ave one of them. they were exactly that, a test run, and are not going to be the Pro Aviar.



hmmm I seem to have a test run (small bead) SE/Pro Aviar then... I was wondering why it looked and flew exactly like my Champion SB Aviar (poorly :( ) For putts, its grippy and straight shooting, but not what I was expecting -- I already have an Omega SS for < 30 ft /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Hey Dave...just wondering if we could possibly see a wide rimmed Teebird style of a disc from Innova sometime in the future? I would like to see a beast/orc like rim with a dome like a teebird!? Any thoughts on something like this?

umm... I think that IS the Orc... I think the Orc is the perfect upgrade to the Teebird. Maybe not as domy, but the same flight characteristics in my book. YRMV.

Rocco, we are going to try to keep all the Pro (SE) discs in stock as much as we can. We are going to limit the models we run at first to be able to do this. Teebirds and Aviars are keepers.

discchucker, stay tuned. All of the discs seem to have more dome and just as much stability.

discgolf, I was planning on running Beasts and Valks, but my partners might have other plans. In the air right now.


A SE Beast would be great, don't let them talk you out of that one. Thx

no way man, get that Orc into the SE plastic, that'd be schweet!!

thanks in advance dave.... :D

matt....

maybe the heavier orcs are domier, but my lightweight orc is flat.

Hi Dave, What are the recommended discs for an advanced player who has not played since the eagle was the best disc on the market. My control is good and dont mind bring the disc from either direction (reverse or hyzer). My preference is higher flight paths and favorite discs are the aviar and the roc.

Dave.

I have a glo Roc with a yellow cirlce stamp on it, just wondering about how old it is, just started playing this year so I am not familiar with older discs!

Yessss Dave, good idea. Thank You!!!!

Dave

Why are the Gremlins not going to be run in CE plastic? :confused: Any thought to a Pro Line Gremlin? :D

Great job with the Pro Line Teebird and the Super Roc! Gripolicious!!! Can't wait to see the TL or whatever it's going to be called. Keep up the great work and thanks for all the inside info.

There is a line of Pro Gremlins out. It is made out of old plastic. If you get lucky you can find them at some stores or on ebay.

I believe he is talking about the new SE plastic Plankeye. LOL

I know. :)

But I did answer the question he asked correctly.

silkworm, the upper transition from the Eagle would be Viking and Orc. The Viking is straighter and the Orc a little longer.

St T, if your glo Roc is ontario or san marino, it is old. If it is Rancho Cucamonga, it is not. Look on the engraving on the bottom.

jaymo, it does look like the Orc, instead of the Beast will be one of the first up in Pro (SE). That should produce lighter weights too.

AWESOME, thanks dave! :D

Hey Dave, Can't wait to see the Pro (SE) Orc. I absolutely love the Pro (SE) T-bird. I can really put some serious spin on this baby w/o turning it over.

2-Thumbs up on the new plastic! I hope it stay around for awhile!

PT #20431

St T, if your glo Roc is ontario or san marino, it is old. If it is Rancho Cucamonga, it is not. Look on the engraving on the bottom.



Dave, Why are all Aviar's marked San Marino? Other disc's are marked from which plant they were made right? Thx

it does look like the Orc, instead of the Beast will be one of the first up in Pro (SE). That should produce lighter weights too.



yes! a grippy SE Orc. Thank you Innova.

Sweet ORC!

ORC!!! ---->> WHEN?!?!?!?

Dave, Why are all Aviar's marked San Marino? Other disc's are marked from which plant they were made right? Thx



I can answer that! :) They only change the name when they change the mold. I believe Stingray's still say San Marino or Ontario, as well as a few other discs. So the location isn't where the disc was made, but where the Innova plant was when the mold was made.

Rhett,
Thx, that makes sense. I didn't realize the Roc's have been retooled so many times. I.E. San Marino, Ontario, Rancho. Thx for clearing this up for me.

[Dave, Why are all Aviar's marked San Marino? Other disc's are marked from which plant they were made right? Thx



Wrong. The location on the disc indicates the where Innova was located when the mold was made, not the location of the plant where is was made. If memory serves, when Innova moved to Ontario, the San Marino Roc was retooled slightly and the marking on the molds was changed to reflect the new location. (I believe some of the SM molds wore out as well). Same thing happened when the moved to Rancho.

Dave,
Any plans for a glo Firebird in the near future? Either regular or fundraiser plastic? I play lots of glow and I miss my firebirds when I do! Thanks!

Yes Dave, Glo Firebirds would be SWEET!!

Dave, what exactly was "tweaked" with the BS beast? From feeling the bs beast and a champion beast the plastic felt different but i was wondering if anything else changed. Seem to fly much better for me with more control than the regulars. Also are the champ beasts going to remain or will the bs beast replace it? Thanks!

flynvegas, the discs are marked from when/where the mold was made, not the discs. The aviar is the original mold.

oops sorry fore, I hadn't seen you had answered the question, thanks

glow Firebird in Champion could happen, unlikely in DX.

Barry Beasts will remain as is. I believe we had to change the plastic slightly to have a bigger weight range.

I'll be the first to ask...Glow Champion Panther?

Awesome! I'd buy a ton.

Possible, but not soon re the glow champion panthers

Ever since champion plastic was born I have been hoping that someday they would include animal/creature graphic stamps like the dx. The graphics are cool. Just an irrelevent suggestion :)

I would have to agree on this one also.

Ever since champion plastic was born I have been hoping that someday they would include animal/creature graphic stamps like the dx. The graphics are cool. Just an irrelevent suggestion :)



I agree with you. I'd like to see what a Orc looks like.

Ever since champion plastic was born I have been hoping that someday they would include animal/creature graphic stamps like the dx. The graphics are cool. Just an irrelevent suggestion :)


i was thinking the same thing some of those dx stamps ar badass. maybe even some more modern renders for the champion line would be cool. I would definetly like to see some champ plastic with pictures on it. maybe mixed runs of with pictures and with just name stamps that way everyone is happy.
whoever was talking aboit glow champ panther you rock and so does the champ panther I love it consistent as hell it is

the bs beasts seem a touch more stable than the old champ beasts.

just to re-iterate , do you have a projected release date for the SE Orc........ I love the orc btw, It is my main driver, I use it all the time, and i get lots of compliments on my driving. now if only i could remember how to putt :D

I'd like to see the a different stamping on the Champions too.

They look to much alike when you pull them out of the bag. Some pictures or bigger text like the 11x Teebirds would be great.

PT # 20431

Dave, what can you tell me about the NEW "First Run" PRO Aviar? I haven't thrown mine yet. It's still in the plastic. Do they only come in white so far? Kenny

I know I'm not Dave....but from my understanding they only come in white so far....

I agree with the graphics suggestion, I always wanted a Champion TeeBird with the old "Bird on a Totem Pole" stamp on it, that was a sweet stamp, and now that I only buy Champion or Pro Plastic I miss the pictures; they kind of made it easy to not take the game so seriously....haha, so I guess that is why champion plastic looks very professional.

Any plans for a Pro (SE) Firebird? I think that should be next after the Orc.
Thanks,
Matt

Dave, Are there any discs with the same shape as a whippet but not nearly as overstable?
I love the shape, size and rim on the whippet, but it is just too overstable to be used for anything other than a speciality disc for me, so I was just wondering if there is another disc in the same shape with less stable characteristics. The whippet is the most comfortable disc in my hand.
Thanks,
Matt

Pro Orc probably within a month. Depends on plastic delivery and molding schedule, etc.

Dave, Are there any discs with the same shape as a whippet but not nearly as overstable?
I love the shape, size and rim on the whippet, but it is just too overstable to be used for anything other than a speciality disc for me, so I was just wondering if there is another disc in the same shape with less stable characteristics. The whippet is the most comfortable disc in my hand.
Thanks,
Matt



Is the Gazelle similar? That disc used to be the KING!

Not even close......

The Panther is about as close as you can get to the whippet, not nearly as overstable... in fact it's understable.

greg the Gazelle is the closest size wise but not very close flight wise. The gazelle is a straight flyer. The rim is slightly shallower. Flight wise the Firebird and Viper are the closest.

Kenny, the are all white as far as I know. Slightly overstable at low speeds, good grip.

Dave,
I have not see this ? How about CE GLO VIKING'Z :eek: :D

THANX ;)

Dave,

If everyone is putting in their requests for discs in the pro plastic, then I have to add the Spider to the list, and the Beast. I understand it's been shifted down the schedule behind the Orc.

Dave must be going nuts with the requests for almost every disc you make to be in the new plastic.

Heck just put it out in the Condor and Phenix and call it a day!

You have more patience than me. Thanks!!!!

If they produce the condor in SE, that would use up the entire supply of it. :D

Dave, thanks for the quick answer. I have more:

People are telling me that some are small bead and others are calling them SE, and I also heard there were 3 different kinds of them. Can you clarify these burning questions I have about this new putter to set the record straight?
PS: Rode some cool trails last week on my Trek990. Banged the back of my head on a Valley Oak, but had a great time.KL

Yoo Dave,
I too wish ya'all would bring the picture stamps back to the game, i love the old teebird and stingray stamps. The new stuff is good to draw on with a sharpy, but I was wonder if u could give me a direction or conection for stamping discs.
I've been drawing ever since i can remember, and can't seem to stop. I would love to make some stamps for Innova or who ever will have me.

kdh

kd, you can send samples of art to Carolina Flying Discs in Rock Hill for review.

Kenny, is that the carbon fiber frame? Steve Wisecup rides too and had a big ole crash. Broke his helmet. Hes okay, but pretty banged up. I havent crashed in a while. I'm due. There may be three types, but one was a goof. Small bead putter is the omega ap. Big bead putter is a goof. Big bead driver is the Pro Aviar. In my opinion, AP is probably the best of the lot for overall approach and putt, including grip, flight, feel, and durability. I am leaning toward the Pro, as I am used to the JK, which is the same mold. And, I use my Aviars to drive as well as approach and putt.

Thanks for the clarification Dave on the disc. I guess I'll have to throw it. I'm not good at saving/hanging new stuff. Life's too short.
PS: My helmet was only dented and 24 hour headache wasn't that bad. The tree actually stopped me from falling another 40 feet into a small river. My frame is not the carbon fiber type, just a little heavier. Good enough for my amateur riding abilities. If you ever play Modesto, bring your bike as there are single tracks right at the course. Thanks, KLee

Hi Dave,
I just purchased a new CHAMPION Rhyno as a back up to my 02 CE Rhyno. The plastic feel's very similar. Is this the case both are ORANGE clear. I have not thrown it to compare stability yet.
THANX

SFS, both runs should be similar if not the same plastic. New run was overstable in tests.

Thanx Dave,
The only thing that i can see is the patent # on the thumb track is in a different place.
Scott

I had a HEINOUS wreck on my steel Ritchey and all I did was bend the fork at the crown! Thank God for hardshells.

Dave, I see that some of the new champion valks are marked "VL". Any significance to this change from the "VK"?

Because Viking could also be VK. VL makes it clear.

If so, it should have been "VY" because that pesky "L" has been so troublesome in the past :)

Funny. Was that the Valkyrie/Leopard???

Must be! That leopard bottom is so indistinct that I couldn't tell for sure! ;)

If I had a nickel for every time I had to correct someone one what TL means, I would have a sh*t load of nickels!!!!

And people will still argue!

Yep! It shows their intelligence.

If I had a nickel for every time I had to correct someone one what TL means, I would have a sh*t load of nickels!!!!

isnt it a teebird with a leopard bottem

Please, please be joking.

Please, please be joking.




;) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif SILLY QUESTION ;) ;)

yes i was

discspeed, we are trying to differentiate it from the Viking. Vk could have meant either, VL would only pertain to Valk

oops, sorry, it was already answered

i read in another thread it was vl for valk less stable(Not leopard bottom) is that true or is the 5 time valks in production now the same as before or are they less stable with the vl on bottom. I seen 5 time valks with vl and some with vk on bottom my viking is marked vg. maybe this is a reason why molds should have name in them like discraft hmmmmmm

thanx for the future se orc dave--can't wait. any more info on how the se TL will be released?

OK, going to try again.

Dave

Why are the Gremlins not going to be run in CE plastic? Any thought to a Pro Line Gremlin? I really like the DX Gremlin when it's new, but unlike the Roc when I beat it up it really becomes useless.......for me.


Yes I know the first run's were called Pro Line Gremlins. Sorry I was not more clear. Some like to take things very literal around here. :D

Had a chance to throw the Pro Line Aviar this weekend and it seems to be a nice approach and short driver for me rather than a putter. Anyone else have a chance to put it though the paces? Any thoughts?

I saw disc today with WX on the bottom, and no name on the top (other than Innova). What kind of disc is it?

Whippet X

And more than likely, it was a Champion Whippit....



Why is there an X with some of the discs, like the whippit-x or JK Aviar-x?

steven, no update on release of TLS yet, scoob, If we run the Gremlin, it will be in Pro rather than dx or Champion. We have limited capacity to run discs. We have to choose one version.

Why is there an X with some of the discs, like the whippit-x or JK Aviar-x?



Will, the "x" denotes the same thing as it does in the CE FX: extra overstability. If I don't forget between now and then, I'll bring a couple of 10x Whippets and WXes to the Tarheel so you can compare them.

WX is written on Champion plastic, making it a Champion Whippet. Sure has a big rim. Thanks for the info!

Well if you do forget, Felix, it won't bother me. I don't throw whippits that much unless I need to get out of a trouble area or for a short forearm shot.

Dave, you make me sad. My Pro Line Gremlins are the longest midrange in my bag, not to mention the only disc in my bag with multiple aces. I have been looking forward to the second run ever since your first mention of it. But alas, the Gremlin will be no more in the sweet candy state it once was. Insert expletive here.

Dave

Are you saying that you may go to the Gremlin as Pro Line only? No more DX?

Love the dx Gremlin...Love the Pro Line Gremlin too.

Dave,

Will there be any proline XD in the nearast future? Or maybe Champion XD?

scoob, yes, but no final decision has been made.

How much longer until the SE orc comes out, are they molded yet? I can't wait to try one of those suckers out... I love the SE roc btw.

thanks again dave :D

I know this is a bit of a different question but I got to thinking about it yesterday. Have you guys ever considered approaching ball golf retail chains (Golfsmith, Nevada Bobs, Edwin Watts, etc..) about carrying your products?

Doug's question reminded me of something...

Dave, I was in a couple of Oshman's here in Houston and noticed that they are selling Champion TLs, stamped like regular Champ plastic. Are these actually TLs? I thought Champ TLs were CFRs?

hmmm did a couple of TL's escape from the plant. those darn suckers fly off everytime the doors open lol if they are supposed to be cfr innova needs a more secure cage for these birds. lol did you buy any i would have bought at least 1. did they have the regular champion stamp.


Hey dave we were discussing a while back on why you guys don't stamp the cool pictures on the champ discs and was wondering if our comments got you guys at innova thinking about that or no. I really like the artwork of the bird on the super roc you guys should revamp the artwork of dx discs and use the newer versions on champ discs those discs especially in those bright colors would look cool with some new modern artwork on them. I know their were a couple of guys who were wanting these stamps as well. speak up guys let's get that rant going again lol

Another vote for putting the artwork on Pro / Champion disc's.

Add another vote to putting original artwork that is done on dx plastic on Champion/Pro Line plastic. If anything run a limited amount, make them more of a collectors item.

Another vote for the artwork idea, we talked about this before, I hope action'll be done this time around.

Wynne

My vote is for some minimal artwork on the Champion plastic.

I myeslf like as little as possible on my discs! I love the designs on Discraft Z and on the older Gateway Evo plastic. Its not like we don't know what disc we are throwing lol. Just a small stamp that says innova and a small stamp that says TeeBird or something would be great. If it was on the rim of the disc it would be even better.

Yeah I too like the minimalist approach to stamping discs, I like the Z-line discraft stamps.... But really all that matters to me is the disc, the plastic and the weight, I couldn't really care less about the stamp. just my 2 cents. :D

If you dont like the stamp, then spend $5 and get a big bottle of Acetone from Walmart and you are good to go. :D

jaymo, we are running a short trial run now. Should be available within a week or so in limited amounts. No time for a full run right now.

TBender that was not supposed to happen but chit does.

we are working on a different way to put art on the discs. Until we nail that down. The discs will remain the same. When we get the new technology working, we will do completely different art.

thanks dave.
my point about the stamp is that I really dont care. If people want big birds on their discs I'll still buy them, and Walmart sells straight acetone (what %age)?? or is it nail-polish remover? :D

sweet

thanks dave.
my point about the stamp is that I really dont care. If people want big birds on their discs I'll still buy them, and Walmart sells straight acetone (what %age)?? or is it nail-polish remover? :D



I dont know the %age but it isn't nail polish remover. Go to the paint section. It does the trick easy.

dave have you got your haircut yet?

Some artwork would be great. It would give the disc more character. I personally love the old Viper stampings which covered most of the disc. It still ranks as one of my favorite stamps.

PT Woods
# 20431

dave have you got your haircut yet?



Dave,
LET IT GROW ;)

yes, it is getting hot. :)

Dave,
I've asked you about this before. At the Innova site it lists that Glow Beasts and now Glow Monsters are 'available.' Any idea when these might be out for resale? Still haven't seen any on the web or elsewhere. Thanks!

the old viper stamp is a great one. I sure do miss the large Innova stamps. I'm not a big fan of how they changed the innova logo and shrunk the old stamps. Though...I remember back in 97 thinking that the old stamps were kind of ugly. Maybe that's why all I have left from the early days seem to be custom stamps?? But I would love to see some of the champion plastic stamped with the old large logos. Just 1 run....please. maybe for 2005 CE Rocs you could have the old large bird....and have it say USDGC inside the ring like Jaybird did way back when....lets see it

yeah! i would much rather have something that makes each disc look different from the other. i think the new stamps are awfull and i remove them as soon as the disc goes in the bag. the old stamps without any logo just the picture and writing are my favorites and i would love to see them brought back out of retirement.

Dave et al:
Again, this is the wrong thread, but I have to tell everybody.
Got my first ace yesterday at Oak Grove #12 on my birthday!
I'm 59 (as of yesterday) and have been playing for 6 months, though I first played in 1976 but then had a 28 year layoff (long story).
I owe a lot to you, Dave, for your generous guidance in these forums.
Just to get vaguely back on the thread topic, I did it with a JK (red jelly plastic) Valkyrie, 150g. Dead straight with the ubiquitous short left fade at the end (RHBH), 280 feet to the pin.


P.S.
Are the SE Valkyries out there yet?

candyredplastic, sorry, I don't know about the glow. I don't even remember making any Beasts or Monsters in glow.

Congratulations on the Ace Blarg!! :D

Thanks Blarg, congrats on your first ace. Always special. We have only done a test run of Pro (SE)Valks so far. They ran and flew well. We will produce them soon i hope.

that's kind of what I figured. I'm sure they will show up eventually. Thanks again Dave!

Hey Dave:


TBender that was not supposed to happen but chit does.



What is the mistake: the TL on the back or the hotstamp on the front?

Thanks!

Cdale. Sorry, I don't know.

Are the 5x JK Aviars in stores yet?
Thanks,
Matt

Hey Dave, I read in the "innova Orc" post, that Innova is "out of Orcs" is this true? and is there another run in the works... Thats gotta be pretty awesome news eh? I dont know any numbers but is the Orc the hottest disc that Innova has right now, or what? :Dthanks again!

I smell an April fools joke.

yep

**** April Fools, MAN am I gulable :confused:

ohhh well...... :D

I don't know Jaymo -- those Orcs have to be selling like hotcakes even if Innova's production is keeping up with demand. Dave, how well are Orcs selling compared to other hot discs?

Dave-
I have a new CFR teebird TL with a stamp that says "Super Dave" and underneath, "Zonedriven". What is this in reference to, you? thanks

superdave is s[ponsored by ZoneDriven, in south carolina. he had them stamp them for him. they are sweet, i was lucky enough to get one of the few avail clear ones with four small sd stamps- rainbow

Dave-
I have a new CFR teebird TL with a stamp that says "Super Dave" and underneath, "Zonedriven". What is this in reference to, you? thanks



Just a guess, but "Super Dave," aka, ,North Kakalaka drawl on>"Supa"<North Kakalaka drawl off>], is the nickname of Dave Gilstrap, who posts on this board as SD11112 (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showprofile.php?User=1526&what=search&Searchpage=0&Forum=All_Forums&Words=supa&where=bodysub&newerval=1&newertype=y&daterange=1&bodyprev=1&Limit=25). Supa TDs the Oak Hollow Open in High Point, NC.

did you just get that superdave disc off ebay **** you i wanted it

Davei et al:

Thanks Dave et al for the congrats and for all the advice. I thought I might hit an ace sometime in my future, but never expected one so soon. I did have a slightly precognitive 'hunch' on my birthday and one other player who heard it was my birthday told me just before the start of the round: "It's your birthday, man, you'll get an ace today!"
I'm taking him to the track tomorrow! :D

Looking forward to the SE Valks.

davei:

I have several X-out Valkyries that are white and made of a plastic I've never seen anywhere else. It is similar to the plastic that the JLS discs are made of, but perhaps not exactly the same.
It's much more durable than dx, much more 'grippy' than candy (though not as durable), has a MUCH sharper edge than anything out there and flies better than any other disc I've used.
What is this plastic? Why does it only exist on mistakes (x-outs)? Why are there no 'production' runs in this plastic?
I've only seen this plastic on X-out Valkyries. The most recent ones I've bought (8 days ago) had a hot stamp on top of the X-Out stamp that says 'Special Edition Valkyries.'
Wassup with alla dat?

They made a lot that were not X-outs. The real question is, where did you find them 8 days ago?

Kid_Roc:
You are right! I just realized I have a 150 class white Valkyrie that is made of the same plastic and is not an X-out. Also not quite as sharp-edged. It is 'JK Pro' plastic, so I may have just answered my own questions for Dave.
To answer your question, I got the X-outs at La Mirada in the pro shop. Mike only had 5 of them.
I bought 'em all!
:eek:

The SE Valk is the longest roller ever made.

Can't throw rollers yet. Rarely turn a Valk over. Right turns in lower 160 weights, but no rollers yet.
:confused:

The SE Valk is the longest roller ever made.



No way: Ghetto Roc.

The SE Valk is the longest roller ever made.



No way: Ghetto Roc.





:confused:And that is the CONDOR? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ;)

Hey Dave,

I want to start by just thanking you for taking the time to go through all these posts and replying to all our questions!! I think its cool that someone on the "inside" of Innova can take the time and help us out with all our questions!!! So thanks!!!

:D

Anyway,

I was comparing an older DX Classic Roc and a CE Classic Roc from 02(rummbletown stamp), the CE seems bigger by a couple cm. I was just wondering why? I am a little guy so the CE seems huge in my little hands but I would love to have a CE in the same smaller size!!! The CE just last longer as far as flight pattern and toughness of the plastic. Thanks!!!

Matt, I don't know if they are in stores on the east coast but we have been shipping them from here for several months.

robj, Orcs are the best selling driver right now. We are low in stock, but not out and still running them.

radiohead, I don't know what the super dave is referenced to.

blarg, those are the old SE Valk, a similar plastic to the new Pro Valks we will be making fairly soon.

Why is it that the Roc, one of the most widely used discs in all of disc golf, has only been made with Champion plastic for USDGC?
Thanks,
Shane

Supply and demand brutha.

I would love a new run of champion or pro classic rocs..

Are XDs still in the works?

ce

Supply and demand brutha.

I would love a new run of champion or pro classic rocs..

Are XDs still in the works?

ce



Yea, I figured, but I think a Champion Roc would sell like hotcakes. I know I'd buy a few if they were produced in large enough amounts to be priced the same as any other champion disc.

Sure the champion roc would sell like hotcakes, but then how would Innova/Zonedriven raise that much instant cash to run the USDGC? I think its cool, because we get a different run every year.

Have you ever been to the USDGC?

WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GONNA REALIZE!!! YOU CAN GET A CE ROC FOR $15 FROM DISCRAFT!!!

Ok i know they are SLIGHTLY different but you can use this disc for the exact same shots! Throw the Z Wasp and if its too overstable, throw the Z Buzzz!!!

Booo!

a roc's a roc :D

a buzz is no roc :mad:

wrong thread for that kind of talk guy

bandsagger, the XD in Pro (SE) plastic is still in the works. Probably wont do the Champion version soon.

WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GONNA REALIZE!!! YOU CAN GET A CE ROC FOR $15 FROM DISCRAFT!!!



If you want the real thing, buy a Roc. If you want a cheap knockoff, buy Discrap.

WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GONNA REALIZE!!! YOU CAN GET A CE ROC FOR $15 FROM DISCRAFT!!!



If you want the real thing, buy a Roc. If you want a cheap knockoff, buy Discrap.



I agree. Don't be mis-led or fooled by imitations. I throw the Original wedge golf discs. I have never been disappointed. If you know how to throw good plastic, your game will improve.
All my Innova disc's go exactly where I throw them. It's up to me to throw them correctly. I never say I have Sh!!y plastic :eek: My personal opinion. I also have not been made fun of for throwing Innova plastic. Yea, I know everyone has a right to their own opinion. I does get old though after awile. Do what's right for you. Remember, don't fake it and you won't be made fun of either. :D

I do think everyone would benefit from Champion rocs being available as standard production runs. Think about it, how many players would buy it due to the Roc's impeccable reputation? Even recreational players who have never heard of the USDGC would buy it because they have heard of the Roc and want something indestructable. Innova could still tax them a couple of bucks to benefit the USDGC as well as running Champ Rocs with the really cool stamps exclusively for the USDGC that all you hard core Roc heads would still buy. Perhaps even offer more special runs/mold variations like the candy glow Rocs as fundraisers. The Buzz and Wasp are good discs and were a very savvy business move by discraft that benefit players in numerous ways through our free market system. Monopoly is never good for the consumer...

What monopoly? Give it up. It's never going to happen.

they could take all the profits for the year made from champ rocs and put that towards usdgc and I am sure the usdgc would get a bigger chunk of change versus the limited run $$ made. Plus I think it sucks all these people buying up as many as they can so they can make a profit on ebay.

If you want the real thing, buy a Roc. If you want a cheap knockoff, buy Discrap.



I agree. Don't be mis-led or fooled by imitations. I throw the Original wedge golf discs. I have never been disappointed. If you know how to throw good plastic, your game will improve.



So everyone who wants a candy Roc has three options:

1. Get on the ball and score one when they come out. If you care enough, you will get one.

2. Make do with one or more of the other four varieties of Roc, and replace your discs more often.

3. Improve your game to the point where you don't need a Roc to succeed. Because I guarantee that if any of the top pros were to switch sponsors, they'd still be the world's best players.

The bottom line is that the current candy Roc fundraiser is clearly effective, and as long as it continues to be, Innova is smart to stick with it.

I don't care who you are! Don't hijack D.Dunipace's thread!

The only direct line we have to speak with "the maker" and he graces us with answers to our piddly questions - no matter how many times we ask. Don't make Dave read through this garbage looking for ligit questions about his products - if you want to offer your suggestions for Innova fundraising ideas or whatever - I suggest you START YOUR OWN THREAD.

Thank you.

And so you add more garbage to the pile . . .

Someone asked a question about Champion Rocs, which started a discussion. That's how message boards work. This thread has gone off on tangents many times before and always come back.

But maybe you're right. Maybe we should stick to only asking Dave questions on this thread - and not answering them.

And we should also stick to worthwhile questions, like: "I'm wondering about the stamp on this Aviar I won. Oh, you don't handle the stamping? Ok, well, I'm wondering about the stamp on this Roc my friend has . . ." Or: "When are you going to make a Champion XD?" Or even: "When is the old CE plastic coming back?"

Just well-thought-out questions that show a deep respect for the man's time.

Just well-thought-out questions that show a deep respect for the man's time.

........and we have a winner!

ding ding ding ding!

3. Improve your game to the point where you don't need a Roc to succeed. Because I guarantee that if any of the top pros were to switch sponsors, they'd still be the world's best players.




Exactly what needed to be said!! It all goes back to the cheezy "its not the arrow, its the Archer" which is really what its all about. Just take the worlds top 20 pros...they come from Discraft, Innova, and Gateway, and even within the companies, they throw a variety of different discs.

Thanks for enlightening us all!

they could take all the profits for the year made from champ rocs and put that towards usdgc and I am sure the usdgc would get a bigger chunk of change versus the limited run $$ made. Plus I think it sucks all these people buying up as many as they can so they can make a profit on ebay.



Have you bothered looking into the economics of this? Do you have even a rough idea of how many Champion Rocs would have to be sold annually to raise an equivalent amount of cash for the USDGC ($89,500 this year: 1500 regular CE Rocs x $25 each = $37,500 plus 1300 Glo CE Rocs x $40 each = $52,000)?

At present, every penny raised through the sale of the CE Rocs goes to the USDGC. That's because Innova donates the disc to the USDGC in exchange for a tax receipt, rather than selling them to the USDGC at cost because under current US tax law, by donating the discs to the USDGC, Innova can claim the entire retail cost of the discs against its tax liability, whereas if the discs were sold and the proceeds donated to the USDGC, they would only be able to claim the actual cash amount of the donation.

If Innova were to make candy Rocs part of the regular production lineup and donate a portion of each sale to the USDGC, the number that would need to be sold annually to raise an equivalent amount would far exceed a reasonable expectation of sales.

Suppose candy Rocs were made part of the regular production lineup and sold at $15 through the regular retail channels. (After all, as regular production items, they would not command the price premium they do as limited production items.)

fore,
Well said, and a well thought out plan by Innova. Keep it the way it is. I bought mine as an investment, I like the run numbers low.

davei:
I was just wondering if there is a nomenclature for the different features of a disc. I know there's a flight plate and a rim and people talk about the dome and the bead, but what about more detailed areas? I'm thinking of the inner curve of the rim as it slopes up in a logarithmic arc. Could that be called the kerf (?), or are there other terms? What do you call the shoulder between the rim and the flight plate, for example?
I find myself so engrossed with discs that I'm constantly trying to figure out what makes them behave the way they do, from one design to the next, and I seem to run out of words, or I have to sort of make up terms for the different parts of the discs.

P.S.
What's a bead, and where can I buy some cheap calipers? :confused:

where can I buy some cheap calipers? :confused:

check googles new store search funchtion froogle

Dave, any Champion Gators in the future? :)

PT Woods
# 20431

yes, now that's a disc that could use champ plastic. the gator is a great short hyzer specialty disc. once it gets beat though, it loses it's overstability.
GATOR GATOR GATOR

I had a dream last night about candy gremlins...
I unfortunately woke up from that dream.

Dave, what are the cfr discs that will be available this year? thanks in advance...

Speaking of this years CFR discs, Dave (or anyone), have you thrown one of the new CFR Glow TL's? I heard from someone that they are a little less stable than the regular plastic of CFR TL's. Is this true?

In general, how does the glo plastic fly vs. the standard champion plastic?

Thanks

Blarg, the only other terms we use for the disc structure are "wall" for the vertical section of the rim. The "shoulder" is the term for the joinder of the flight plate and the rim. The "nose" of course for the leading edge. The outer lower edge of the rim has been called the "bevel" or "skirt". The "wing" refers to the width of the disc's rim. "Profile" is a loose term for camber or height of the disc. Terms like "dome" and "flat top" describe the shape of the flight plate.

Primetime, there is definitely a Pro (SE) Gator in the future. The Champion Gator is going to have to wait a bit for production time and storage space.

rhmiracle, I think you need to go to our website for that answer, I don't have the info personally. sorry.

where can I buy some cheap calipers? :confused:

check googles new store search funchtion froogle



I work for a gage distributor. I can get you a nice set of Mitutoyo Digital Calipers made of plastic for less than $40. I can probably even have them calibrated for you by an ISO accredited lab. Send me an email if you are interested

Dave,
Just took a look at the new INNCOLOR disc's. WOW, way sweet. Keep up the great work!

Primetime, there is definitely a Pro (SE) Gator in the future. The Champion Gator is going to have to wait a bit for production time and storage space.



I'll be waiting in line for 3 of them!!

Thanks Dave! :D

PT Woods
# 20431

For those interested in the new INN<font color="red">C</font><font color="orange">O</font><font color="yellow">L</font><font color="green">O</font><font color="blue">R</font> discs, visit https://www.zonedriven.com/catalog/default.php

We are running limited runs of Golden State Classic and Japan Open designs.

those are really weird! :D

For those interested in the new INN<font color="red">C</font><font color="orange">O</font><font color="yellow">L</font><font color="green">O</font><font color="blue">R</font> discs, visit https://www.zonedriven.com/catalog/default.php


We are running limited runs of Golden State Classic and Japan Open designs.




WOW :p Those look really cool :D

Sweet.

Are they legal to throw with the stamp all the way to the edge? Just curious.

I guess they would have to be.

I think it's quite obvious they're legal, can't imagine Innova releasing discs not approved.

Wynne