Dave,
Is there any way to differentiate between an older Champion Eagle that was run in the EX mold and a newer Champion Eagle run in the EL mold by the stamp or the marking?
Thanks.

Dave,
Is there any way to differentiate between an older Champion Eagle that was run in the EX mold and a newer Champion Eagle run in the EL mold by the stamp or the marking?
Thanks.



Not consistently. Some of them were marked EL, but most were not. You have to have them in your hands.

Hey Dave,

Would you be willing to give us an idea of what is coming up next in the production line and what you are working on now? I know you are trying to get all the star in....which ones?? And which new DX discs are going to be coming out?? I can't wait to get my hands on a DX Starfire

Peace
Scott

[QUOTE]

It was our 8th disc. Eagle, Aero, Aviar, XD, Apple, Coupe, Mini, Classic Roc, Classic Hammer, Ace Stingray, big Roc, Cobra, etc.



Are you referring to a marker when you say " mini "?

Hey Dave,

Would you be willing to give us an idea of what is coming up next in the production line and what you are working on now? I know you are trying to get all the star in....which ones?? And which new DX discs are going to be coming out?? I can't wait to get my hands on a DX Starfire

Peace
Scott



We just finished running BB Star and are working on KC Aviars. Working on Star Max. DX TeeRex up next. Star Eagles start soon. DX Starfires are in the line up. Everything is mainly stocking up.

[QUOTE]

It was our 8th disc. Eagle, Aero, Aviar, XD, Apple, Coupe, Mini, Classic Roc, Classic Hammer, Ace Stingray, big Roc, Cobra, etc.



Are you referring to a marker when you say " mini "?



Yes, our original 4" mini marker.

We just finished running BB Star



YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS

Yes BB Star Aviars!!!!!!

We just finished running BB Star



CFR or regular production?

Dave,
Will the new KC Aviar's be 12x?
Thx

Dave -- have you ever considered a signature mini disc line where Innova might be able to recognize a larger array of Team achievers and where Pro World Champions of protected divisions (gender/age) could be recognized and maybe other Open achievements such as 2005 USDGC Champ (Feldberg) and Distance World Record Holder (Sandstrom) could be recognized?

I was trying to think of a more practical way for Innova to recognize achievements of sponsored Pros while not going overboard in sharing royalties etc... would mini collectable lines be do-able in terms of costs? if a mini like the Des Reading mini-Aviar (as an example) sold really well you could just adjust production to meet demand...

just an idea for what it is (or isn't) worth from a fan of Innova ...

Dave, can you tell me anything about CE TL's with just an "Innova" hotstamp and which say "CE Teebird" in the tail of the swoosh? were they just like one of the runs of regular CE TL's (same plastic) but with a different hotstamp ... or ... :confused:

great idea! :cool:

Dave,
Are signiture star discs comming out anytime soon?

We just finished running BB Star



Will someone tell me how BB Star Aviar is different from the other Star Aviars that are already out ?

Thanks

I was trying to think of a more practical way for Innova to recognize achievements of sponsored Pros while not going overboard in sharing royalties etc... would mini collectable lines be do-able in terms of costs? if a mini like the Des Reading mini-Aviar (as an example) sold really well you could just adjust production to meet demand...



Or just sell them for a little higher price and treat the royalties the same. The players that bought them would know that the extra cost was supporting the players. I don't think it would prevent anyone form buying a mini for a player they are a fan of.

Bcary93,
The star Aviars that are being run now are the Small Bead mold. This is the mold that the DX Aviars are run in. The Big Bead Aviar is the more overstable mold. This is the mold used for the KC and JK Aviars. I hope this helped you.

-Scott Lewis

Dave,

What is the significance of the tiny number "8" at the bottom of the Classic Roc stamp inside the ring?



It was our 8th disc. Eagle, Aero, Aviar, XD, <font color="red"> APPLE</font> , Coupe, Mini, Classic Roc, Classic Hammer, Ace Stingray, big Roc, Cobra, etc.



Dave, what is an APPLE?

TThanks.



More "Apple-info":
http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc.aspx?DiscId=2221

We just finished running BB Star



CFR or regular production?



Regular production

Dave,
Will the new KC Aviar's be 12x?
Thx



I believe they will be marked 12X.

Dave, can you tell me anything about CE TL's with just an "Innova" hotstamp and which say "CE Teebird" in the tail of the swoosh? were they just like one of the runs of regular CE TL's (same plastic) but with a different hotstamp ... or ... :confused:



It was just a hotstamp variation, as far as I know.

Dave,
Are signiture star discs comming out anytime soon?



Yes. We just finished running them. Gold Star Wraiths. After hotstamping, they will be shipped to the Champions.

We just finished running BB Star



Will someone tell me how BB Star Aviar is different from the other Star Aviars that are already out ?

Thanks



The Star Aviars are the new beadless putter mold. These are very straight flyers. The Star BB are driver mold Aviar. These start out slightly overstable.

Dave -- have you ever considered a signature mini disc line where Innova might be able to recognize a larger array of Team achievers and where Pro World Champions of protected divisions (gender/age) could be recognized and maybe other Open achievements such as 2005 USDGC Champ (Feldberg) and Distance World Record Holder (Sandstrom) could be recognized?

I was trying to think of a more practical way for Innova to recognize achievements of sponsored Pros while not going overboard in sharing royalties etc... would mini collectable lines be do-able in terms of costs? if a mini like the Des Reading mini-Aviar (as an example) sold really well you could just adjust production to meet demand...

just an idea for what it is (or isn't) worth from a fan of Innova ...



That's a good idea. Originally, that is what we (at Innova) used for business cards.

Dave how about a Star Mini Driver?

Dave, can you tell me anything about CE TL's with just an "Innova" hotstamp and which say "CE Teebird" in the tail of the swoosh? were they just like one of the runs of regular CE TL's (same plastic) but with a different hotstamp ... or ... :confused:



I thought that these were the first run of the new CFR TL.

Dave, can you tell me anything about CE TL's with just an "Innova" hotstamp and which say "CE Teebird" in the tail of the swoosh? were they just like one of the runs of regular CE TL's (same plastic) but with a different hotstamp ... or ... :confused:



I thought that these were the first run of the new CFR TL.


It may be a hotstamp that was given to Team members at the time. Long story, but I have one of these...is much more translucent than original CEs, though.

Dave, can you tell me anything about CE TL's with just an "Innova" hotstamp and which say "CE Teebird" in the tail of the swoosh? were they just like one of the runs of regular CE TL's (same plastic) but with a different hotstamp ... or ... :confused:



I thought that these were the first run of the new CFR TL.


It may be a hotstamp that was given to Team members at the time. Long story, but I have one of these...is much more translucent than original CEs, though.



I remember those TLs. I worked at a store that sold discs at the time and I was responsible for orders. CE plastic was unavailable, though nothing had been said yet about the permanent discontinuation of the line. Instead, when I called Innova they simple said that they currently were out of all the CE discs except TLs. I ordered them at the time and they came in all max weight, purple, with that single swoosh that said CE TL. Soon after the end of CE was announced. My buddies and I quickly noticed that they were not the same plastic/did not fly the same as earlier CE TLS, however I still see them around and have thrown this run since, and I can definetely say that they are not today's champion plastic either. I suspect they are a hybrid of the late run CE plastic and the newer type champion plastic.

Agreed. I thought that they were the same as the CFR TL's. Recently I saw a clear champion teebird, no pigment with a black stamp. But when I felt it, it was a TL. It had the current 11x KC stamp. Dave??

when you run star gators are they going to be the flat top mold or the domey mold. i hoope the flat top.

Agreed. I thought that they were the same as the CFR TL's. Recently I saw a clear champion teebird, no pigment with a black stamp. But when I felt it, it was a TL. It had the current 11x KC stamp. Dave??



Sorry, no clue.

when you run star gators are they going to be the flat top mold or the domey mold. i hoope the flat top.



There is no variation that is flat or domey. There are other variation. The Star Gator is being run with the more stable top and the less over stable bottom. They are still pretty over stable.

Gator-L ?

Hi Dave,

So does the release of a KC Star BB mean the KC plastic version BBs are going away?

Thanks!

The way I read Dave's post lead me to believe that both versions are being produced.

They just finished running BB Star Aviars, and are getting ready to run the KC 12 time BB Aviars.

^^ this is how I read it too

Gator-L ?



Technically, but it still fllies like a Gator.

Hi Dave,

So does the release of a KC Star BB mean the KC plastic version BBs are going away?

Thanks!



We will have both. There was a problem with KCs. We have fixed that and are currently running them.

I know this has probably been asked 100 times already....

Is there plans on running BB aviars in the new DX plastic? Im regretting letting go of a couple of them a while back.

Thanks,
Cary

Dave -- have you ever considered a signature mini disc line where Innova might be able to recognize a larger array of Team achievers and where Pro World Champions of protected divisions (gender/age) could be recognized and maybe other Open achievements such as 2005 USDGC Champ (Feldberg) and Distance World Record Holder (Sandstrom) could be recognized?

I was trying to think of a more practical way for Innova to recognize achievements of sponsored Pros while not going overboard in sharing royalties etc... would mini collectable lines be do-able in terms of costs? if a mini like the Des Reading mini-Aviar (as an example) sold really well you could just adjust production to meet demand...

just an idea for what it is (or isn't) worth from a fan of Innova ...



That's a good idea. Originally, that is what we (at Innova) used for business cards.



if you have any left feel free to sign and send me one ;) :eek: :D :p :D

Dave or anyone know if the pro wraiths, or champ/star for that matter, are made in 150? if not, how light?

Gummy BB Star Aviars ?

the gator-l sounds interesting. can't wait.

According to their website there are 150gr dx Wraiths.

I know this has probably been asked 100 times already....

Is there plans on running BB aviars in the new DX plastic? Im regretting letting go of a couple of them a while back.

Thanks,
Cary



No, the two that are closest are the KC Aviar JK Aviar and the Classic. The Classic is a no bead.

Dave or anyone know if the pro wraiths, or champ/star for that matter, are made in 150? if not, how light?



Only the DX Wraiths come in 150 gms. The other are usually 163 gm +. It is difficult to mold the Wraith in the premium plastics in weights under 168 gms.

Gummy BB Star Aviars ?



No, but not a bad idea.

I also would like to see the BB Aviar in the new dx also. Like the Aviar Driver of the mid 90's


the gator-l sounds interesting. can't wait.



Ya it does and its called a spider...

Is there a reason why you are not making the BB in dx? I might have to spend $20 on e-bay to get a putter. :mad:

What would it take to get you to run some? I think it would be a great to have even if was for tourneys only, a small run even. Kind of like you did with the dx Teerex.

Thanks Dave!

I also would like to see the BB Aviar in the new dx also. Like the Aviar Driver of the mid 90's


the gator-l sounds interesting. can't wait.



Ya it does and its called a spider...





Agreed. The first thing that came into my mind was a Proto Champion Spider.

What, Call it a Super ROC, I had a friend give me a Super Roc cause I couldnt get my Champ Gator to go that far and it worked, If it will fly like a Spyder which Like then I would still want a Gator.. Keep it stable, just add a little turn to it thats all!

What, Call it a Super ROC, I had a friend give me a Super Roc cause I couldnt get my Champ Gator to go that far and it worked, If it will fly like a Spyder which Like then I would still want a Gator.. Keep it stable, just add a little turn to it thats all!



Why change a mold that everyone likes, Tokyo? There are plenty of molds that can do what the "gator L" would do for you. If you want a straight, stable flight with alot of low speed fade, try a heavy star or champion shark.

Dave, please don't tweek the star gator from the champion mold. It's the only consistanly overstable midrange Innova makes us high powered arms can't torque. Thanks!!!!!!!

Dave I have a San Marino roc that looks a little funky on the wing ( stripper)
I have compared it too sharks but the top seems quite a bit different. Was there a run of discs with a san marino roc top with a different rim?
What year did the sharks come out?



There was only one mold at that time for Rocs or Sharks.


Assuming there were sharks in 1991, would it be correct to say you were using the same top for both the shark and roc or was there just one disc?
The rim doesnt look exactly like a shark or Roc, but has a small groove in it and the top is definately not a shark.
I dont have a san marino laying around to compare it to.

I sold one on ebay and didnt want to misrepresent the disc.
I was convinced it was a San Marino roc until I saw the little groove line on the wing.
Now I'm wondering or trying to figure out the difference.
Here is a picture of the side view from the ebay listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&viewitem=&item=290043902948&rd=1&rd=1

Thanks for the help I know this was a long time ago.

i throw dx and champ gators. they complement each other nicely, as the dx molds up a little more domey and is less overstable than the champ, but still solid. why change the mold in star? the gator needs to maintain it's overstability, and people throwing them do not need to be confused about what they are getting. i, for one, do not understand this mold-changing stuff. it seems it would be better to get the mold correct before publicly releasing discs [tee-rex], and once a disc is established, don't mess with it. if it needs to have a different flight characteristic, and a change must be made, then call it something else. that being said, i definately am sympathetic to the challenges of consistantly molding plastic, and thanks for all your hard work for innova and for us. oh--also--have you ever considered having a different flight characteristics chart for the same mold in different plastics? there are numerous examples in innova's line-up of a disc that flys one way in one plastic, and another way in another plastic. the web-site catalog already shows the discs in different plastics, so tweaking the ratings would not be that much of a chore. just my 2 cents.

Hi Dave,
how many different Pirhanas are they, how many retoolings?
How do I see the different?
When, which years did you do those changes?

Hi Dave!

I've been looking for a MAX and can't seem to find any around. Have I been missing the applicible sites or are they limited quanities and have to deal with ePay?
Thanks & have a great weekend!!!!

The Truth

Have the DX Wraiths been through multiple molds? I recieved one in August I only just started throwing and it has a pretty good lip on the very inside of the rim making it VERY overstable, I've never thrown a Wraith like it... and I like it, it is incredibly stable and I can't flip it hard for the life of me... its all but taken the teerex out of my bag completely.

Hey Dave I know you have a lot to answer but I have a question and probably someone else will answer for me. I saw an innova putter today and all it said on the hot stamp was putter across the top and had a basket under it that had a 1 on it. It said PDGA approved golf disc on it and the bottom was San Marino.

Thanks
Scott

discgolfvalues.com had them, looks like all they have left is X-outs

http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=X-*Max

Hey Dave I know you have a lot to answer but I have a question and probably someone else will answer for me. I saw an innova putter today and all it said on the hot stamp was putter across the top and had a basket under it that had a 1 on it. It said PDGA approved golf disc on it and the bottom was San Marino.

Thanks
Scott



if under the basket on the hotstamp it has a disc being held with 2 hands it is an Aviar Putter from around '89 i believe. i think it was called the "hands" stamp

: ) :

That's it thanks!!

Scott

Is there a reason why you are not making the BB in dx? I might have to spend $20 on e-bay to get a putter. :mad:

What would it take to get you to run some? I think it would be a great to have even if was for tourneys only, a small run even. Kind of like you did with the dx Teerex.

Thanks Dave!



We think it would be redundant given the KC, JK, and Star. Those are all BBs. What do you think DX will give you that the others won't? If you can give me a compelling reason, it might be goood to have it for a fundraiser.

I also would like to see the BB Aviar in the new dx also. Like the Aviar Driver of the mid 90's


the gator-l sounds interesting. can't wait.



Ya it does and its called a spider...





Agreed. The first thing that came into my mind was a Proto Champion Spider.



It may sound like a Spider, but it flies like a regular Gator. No flip at all.

Dave I have a San Marino roc that looks a little funky on the wing ( stripper)
I have compared it too sharks but the top seems quite a bit different. Was there a run of discs with a san marino roc top with a different rim?
What year did the sharks come out?



There was only one mold at that time for Rocs or Sharks.


Assuming there were sharks in 1991, would it be correct to say you were using the same top for both the shark and roc or was there just one disc?
The rim doesnt look exactly like a shark or Roc, but has a small groove in it and the top is definately not a shark.
I dont have a san marino laying around to compare it to.

I sold one on ebay and didnt want to misrepresent the disc.
I was convinced it was a San Marino roc until I saw the little groove line on the wing.
Now I'm wondering or trying to figure out the difference.
Here is a picture of the side view from the ebay listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&viewitem=&item=290043902948&rd=1&rd=1

Thanks for the help I know this was a long time ago.



I can't tell from the picture. It would need to be a clear close up. From what I can see, it could be one of three discs: Roc, Shark, or Pro. The Pro was made for DGA for a couple of years starting at the first Cincinnatti Worlds. The Pro later became the MS for Millenium. If I had to guess what the disc in the picture was, I would guess Roc, but I really can't see it well enough.

i throw dx and champ gators. they complement each other nicely, as the dx molds up a little more domey and is less overstable than the champ, but still solid. why change the mold in star? the gator needs to maintain it's overstability, and people throwing them do not need to be confused about what they are getting. i, for one, do not understand this mold-changing stuff. it seems it would be better to get the mold correct before publicly releasing discs [tee-rex], and once a disc is established, don't mess with it. if it needs to have a different flight characteristic, and a change must be made, then call it something else. that being said, i definately am sympathetic to the challenges of consistantly molding plastic, and thanks for all your hard work for innova and for us. oh--also--have you ever considered having a different flight characteristics chart for the same mold in different plastics? there are numerous examples in innova's line-up of a disc that flys one way in one plastic, and another way in another plastic. the web-site catalog already shows the discs in different plastics, so tweaking the ratings would not be that much of a chore. just my 2 cents.



We try to keep the rating charts as simple as possible. The ratings are not perfect, nor could they ever be. The variations in runs makes that impossible, plus, the variations between plastics and flight characteristics makes things even worse. The ratings are designed to compare one of our discs to another. By themselves, the ratings mean very little in any accurate sense. Comparitively, say rating one Star disc to another Star, they work pretty well. However, it might be helpful to further explain on the web site how they work and how the different plastics can change the ratings. The charts themselves are already pretty cluttered with info.

Hi Dave,
how many different Pirhanas are they, how many retoolings?
How do I see the different?
When, which years did you do those changes?



There have been three versions of the Piranha. The first was the most overstable with a narrow and tall Thumtrac. The second had a narrow, and not as tall, Thumtrac. The third is the present version of the Thumtrac Birdie. We combined the two discs after the third tooling. The Birdie had three retoolings itself. I don't know any of the dates. Sorry.

Hi Dave!

I've been looking for a MAX and can't seem to find any around. Have I been missing the applicible sites or are they limited quanities and have to deal with ePay?
Thanks & have a great weekend!!!!

The Truth



The Star Max is being run now. Up to now they have been available in limited quantities. They should be available widely in a few weeks.

Have the DX Wraiths been through multiple molds? I recieved one in August I only just started throwing and it has a pretty good lip on the very inside of the rim making it VERY overstable, I've never thrown a Wraith like it... and I like it, it is incredibly stable and I can't flip it hard for the life of me... its all but taken the teerex out of my bag completely.



The Wraith, DX or otherwise hasn't been touched. Molding variations are such on the more extreme discs like the Wraith and TeeRex such that these discs will overlap at times. The Star plastic is a little more consistent than the DX, but there still are Star Wraiths that are more stable than Star TeeRexes. So far, I have been unable to fix the problem in Star. The problem may have been fixed in DX. We'll see.

Is there a reason why you are not making the BB in dx? I might have to spend $20 on e-bay to get a putter. :mad:

What would it take to get you to run some? I think it would be a great to have even if was for tourneys only, a small run even. Kind of like you did with the dx Teerex.

Thanks Dave!



We think it would be redundant given the KC, JK, and Star. Those are all BBs. What do you think DX will give you that the others won't? If you can give me a compelling reason, it might be goood to have it for a fundraiser.



I think there are a few benefits to putting with dx.

The main reason is feel. The dx is what I started with, and is the only plastic that feels right for "touch". KC too stiff, JK too floppy.

Flight- To me, the dx flies different than any other plastic. The KC is more ovestable, the JK (couple that Ive thrown) are less.

The way dx acts in the chains. JKs are too soft for me, and KC tends to spit out of the basket for me. Dx gets that kind of gritty texture that helps it grab chain. The slickness of KC doesnt work for me.

Another reason is the way the putters beat up. JK's seem to get that droop in the flight plate. KCs take forever to beat up. DX is perfect.

I know Ill think of better reasons, so Ill post again later. Its too early to efficiently plead my (our) case. It seems to me that it would be the most widely used putter you have. I know it definitely would be among pros.

It would just be nice to have another fairly firm putter, without having to putt exclusively white KC's.

Just thinking about the no/small bead aviars. I think they are the redundant ones. Star, soft dx, hard dx, glo, all the millennium versions, and champion.

i think if you made 1000 or even 2000 of them, I
could get rid of them all by myself. They would sell like hot cakes.

Thanks Dave for all the time you spend answering mostly meaningless questions.

I agree with Cary 100%. I have run out of BB Dx Aviars
and been trying everything else. Nothing else has been
even close. I would like to add to Cary's list that when
it's cold or wet out that the star and K.C. is way to slick
to throw. Like Cary, I would buy a bunch of them too.

I also would like to see the BB Aviar in the new dx also. Like the Aviar Driver of the mid 90's


the gator-l sounds interesting. can't wait.



Ya it does and its called a spider...





Agreed. The first thing that came into my mind was a Proto Champion Spider.



It may sound like a Spider, but it flies like a regular Gator. No flip at all.



I still LOVE the "original" DX Gator...like the one I had the said only "DD" on top :D

Personally, I never liked the Champion Gator... :(
Did the mold change for Champion or is it just the difference in plastics?? :confused:

Are DX Gators that are available now, the same as the old or has the mold changed as well??

It would be REALLY COOL :cool:if someone ;) brought me a STAR gator or 2 ;) to "TEST" out at the Team Tourney in San Diego... ;)

:D

I agree with Cary 100%. I have run out of BB Dx Aviars
and been trying everything else. Nothing else has been
even close. I would like to add to Cary's list that when
it's cold or wet out that the star and K.C. is way to slick
to throw. Like Cary, I would buy a bunch of them too.


Dave, what plastic were the grid stamped BB's molded in? They were very hard, nearly as hard as KC's...but seemed to have a slightly different feel. We've always seemed to refer to them as DX BBs...but compared to a P&A there is a major difference. A plastic alloy? :)

Is there a reason why you are not making the BB in dx? I might have to spend $20 on e-bay to get a putter. :mad:

What would it take to get you to run some? I think it would be a great to have even if was for tourneys only, a small run even. Kind of like you did with the dx Teerex.

Thanks Dave!



We think it would be redundant given the KC, JK, and Star. Those are all BBs. What do you think DX will give you that the others won't? If you can give me a compelling reason, it might be goood to have it for a fundraiser.



I would love to get some Dx Big Beads. No plastic has as good a feel for putting as dx. Star is too slick, Jk to floppy, and KC to hard. Dx is especially useful here in Michigan when playing in below freezing temps all winter. I like kc aviars but hesitate using them in the winter due them blending in with the snow. I know several people who putt with KCs but are hesitant to use them in the winter as I've seen several nice KCs cracked. Also no other plastic ages as nicely as DX does.

I'm sure if you ran DX big beads again they would sell. I like them but don't use them due to limited availability and I know other people who feel the same way.

Thanks

I still LOVE the "original" DX Gator...like the one I had the said only "DD" on top :D

Personally, I never liked the Champion Gator... :(
Did the mold change for Champion or is it just the difference in plastics?? :confused:

Are DX Gators that are available now, the same as the old or has the mold changed as well??

It would be REALLY COOL :cool:if someone ;) brought me a STAR gator or 2 ;) to "TEST" out at the Team Tourney in San Diego... ;)

:D



The mold was changed, but I'm not sure when. It might have been after the Champion Gator run. At any rate, the newer mold is more stable than the older. The DX Gators available now are probably the newer type. The nose on the newer type is more bull nosed than the older type. It was too easy for me to flip the older type. I like a no flip Gator.

I agree with Cary 100%. I have run out of BB Dx Aviars
and been trying everything else. Nothing else has been
even close. I would like to add to Cary's list that when
it's cold or wet out that the star and K.C. is way to slick
to throw. Like Cary, I would buy a bunch of them too.


Dave, what plastic were the grid stamped BB's molded in? They were very hard, nearly as hard as KC's...but seemed to have a slightly different feel. We've always seemed to refer to them as DX BBs...but compared to a P&A there is a major difference. A plastic alloy? :)



The grid stamped were a variety of DX. The P&A has more elastomer which softens the plastic.

There are two different BB molds. Driver BBs are overstable. Putter BB are stable. I assume you guys are talking about driver BBs, but if the discs you throw are very old, they may be the older putter big beads. Newer JK and KC aviars, as well as the Star BB are the driver mold.

I would like to add one thing as well to the "Why a BB DX question." The reason the big bead is made (driver mold) is to use as a driver for short holes or for a mid-range. What I use for this currently is the Wizard. I threw a Star Aviar the other day that belonged to a friend and the biggest difference (other than stability) was the GLIDE. The Star Aviar had a great glide, but too flippy. Now I will buy a Star BB, but everyone knows that although the mold itself will give me the glide I am talking about, when you couple that with the exceptional glide of the DX plastic you get a beautiful disc.

Just an off-shoot of this post, I am a little put off by the new DX plastic, it feels great and isn't as easy to beat in....but not as much glide :(

My 2 cents
Peace
Scott

I'm so glad this is being talked about.

Please bring back the DX BB Aviar.

I want a stack of them.

i love the new dx plastic, at least in the wraiths and spiders that i throw

I got a BB DX from the '92 Worlds Biggest Weekend.

Would that be about the right timeframe for these, Dave?

I got a BB DX from the '92 Worlds Biggest Weekend.

Would that be about the right timeframe for these, Dave?



That would definitely be a putter big bead. The original BBs were not particularly overstable. The driver BBs are until they are well worn.

The driver mold didn't exist until about 2000 AD.

The driver mold is what we are begging for.

Please make them again.

I still LOVE the "original" DX Gator...like the one I had the said only "DD" on top :D

Personally, I never liked the Champion Gator... :(
Did the mold change for Champion or is it just the difference in plastics?? :confused:

Are DX Gators that are available now, the same as the old or has the mold changed as well??

It would be REALLY COOL :cool:if someone ;) brought me a STAR gator or 2 ;) to "TEST" out at the Team Tourney in San Diego... ;)

:D



The mold was changed, but I'm not sure when. It might have been after the Champion Gator run. At any rate, the newer mold is more stable than the older. The DX Gators available now are probably the newer type. The nose on the newer type is more bull nosed than the older type. It was too easy for me to flip the older type. I like a no flip Gator.



Thanks, Dave...

I really LOVED that 1st Disc & the "first Runs" that I had stamped for the KOA when they first were released.
I have a 1st run Champion that just didnt "do it" for me...

I ordered some DX thru "Chicken" last week so Ill see how those are...in compairison....I need my "Whippet-Roc".. :D

Is the last pressing or any pressing of the Champion Monster the same mold as the Star Monster?
The reason I ask is that I saw a sweet neon dark pink max weight one in a store but didn't want to get it if it was in the same mold as those Star variants.

Dave are you going to make Champion Monsters in the X mold? These L molds are really flippy.

I got a BB DX from the '92 Worlds Biggest Weekend.

Would that be about the right timeframe for these, Dave?



That would definitely be a putter big bead. The original BBs were not particularly overstable. The driver BBs are until they are well worn.

The driver mold didn't exist until about 2000 AD.





I saw a picture of Barry putting with an old Glow Aviar, werent the first of those Glows BBs?

Is the last pressing or any pressing of the Champion Monster the same mold as the Star Monster?
The reason I ask is that I saw a sweet neon dark pink max weight one in a store but didn't want to get it if it was in the same mold as those Star variants.



Yes, the last run was regular Monsters, not the X. We may do a special run of Monster Xs for tournaments, if we have time.

So...the Monsters that were pressed before Star Plastic came out were X and after the Star Monster came out all the Monsters (Champion and Star) are in the L mold?

DX BB........when they are made again I will buy a big stack....throw in some cool stamps on some of them...like the skull innova stamp(my personal favorite)...and the stack just grows :D

The champion Monsters went back to the L mold before the Star Monsters came out. The new L mold Monsters look quite different on the bottom wing than the old L Monsters. If you look at both discs from the side and view the wings, the old L Monster is flat across until the very bottom of the wing where it turns downward at a sharper angle than the rest of the wing, creating a little concave shape(sort of like a Valk or old mold Beast). The new L Monsters (Star and Champion) are completelt flat across the bottom of the wing, like a TL, Sidewinder, or L Beast. I don't know anything about molding, but the wings look quite different.

Hi Dave,
One good reason to make us some DX big beads would be the availability of discs for custom stamps. Now we have the JK, KC and Champion, but none are available for clubs to stamp with custom designs. A custom DX big bead would be well received!
Thanks,
Axis

I got a BB DX from the '92 Worlds Biggest Weekend.

Would that be about the right timeframe for these, Dave?



That would definitely be a putter big bead. The original BBs were not particularly overstable. The driver BBs are until they are well worn.

The driver mold didn't exist until about 2000 AD.





I saw a picture of Barry putting with an old Glow Aviar, werent the first of those Glows BBs?



Sorry, I don't know.

I don't think I can live without my Monster X! :(

Dave,
I see some Star BB Aviars are out there ... any ETA on the release of the Star Gator yet?

dave,
I was wondering when people say they have a ce coyote and ce Whippet or spider, is it actually ce?or is it just first run?
thanks

Hi Dave--the gummy discs are very nice, and you seem to be able to run them at will, albeit in mostly lighter weights. people i know love these, but they are hard to find. they work very well in winter. any thoughts of making the gummy it's own line ? i think that would work well. there is no other plastic like it. how heavy are you able to run them? is it mold-dependant? i have seen gummy spiders [i throw spiders] in the 170's. it would be nice to have the gummy stuff in it's own line [whatever could be made] so we could see what was avaliable in that plastic and be sure to get what we are looking for. you could even charge a premium for it. hope this makes sense, it's late--

I love my gummy Spider!!!

Hi, found this fundraiser disc on Mark Molnars site:
http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=07_WRX

Wraith X,... isn�t it a TeeRex :confused:

dave,
I was wondering when people say they have a ce coyote and ce Whippet or spider, is it actually ce?or is it just first run?
thanks



The first Spiders that came out had the star stamp and people call them CE. This was right at the time CE was being discontinued, but the plastic these Spiders were made of was NOT CE. They did not feel any different than the subsequent run of Pro Line Spiders. They were both an opaque, soft Champion plastic that was common in Champion Beasts, Monsters, and Orcs of a couple years back.

CE plastic was long gone before any talk of the Coyote. I'm not a Whippet person, so I can't say for sure if they were ever run in CE, but I know the latest run of CFR Whippets certainly were not CE.

Dave,
I see some Star BB Aviars are out there ... any ETA on the release of the Star Gator yet?



No, but they are done running and are in the hot stamp mode. I would guess the first or second week of December.

dave,
I was wondering when people say they have a ce coyote and ce Whippet or spider, is it actually ce?or is it just first run?
thanks



Probably just Champion. Some people interchange CE and Champion.

Hi Dave--the gummy discs are very nice, and you seem to be able to run them at will, albeit in mostly lighter weights. people i know love these, but they are hard to find. they work very well in winter. any thoughts of making the gummy it's own line ? i think that would work well. there is no other plastic like it. how heavy are you able to run them? is it mold-dependant? i have seen gummy spiders [i throw spiders] in the 170's. it would be nice to have the gummy stuff in it's own line [whatever could be made] so we could see what was avaliable in that plastic and be sure to get what we are looking for. you could even charge a premium for it. hope this makes sense, it's late--



I think that's a good idea. We are running gummy Star Rhynos right now for custom hotstamping or CFR. We can make them heavy or light depending on the mold, but weight should not be much of a problem. We could, at least, put some other gummy models in the same program and see what people think.

We just finished running BB Star and are working on KC Aviars. Working on Star Max. DX TeeRex up next. Star Eagles start soon. DX Starfires are in the line up. Everything is mainly stocking up.



Dave,
Is the Star Max coming into standard production? If so, is there a timeline? Thanks.

Hi, found this fundraiser disc on Mark Molnars site:
http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=07_WRX

Wraith X,... isn�t it a TeeRex :confused:



This was a transition test run of TeeRexX, but it is almost identical to the Wraith X in appearance and is the same in flight. We didn't think they would cut it as TeeRexX as there is some high speed turn, but are fine as Wraith Xes.
The TeeRex is still being worked on.

If you take a look at the PDGA approved disc list (at http://www.pdga.com/documents/tech_standards/PDGA_approved_discs_and_targets.pdf) there are except the five classic CE-disc (VL, L, T (TL), E (EL) and F (FL, FX)) two other discs that are approved as CE, it is the Spider and CE Aviar. What is the story behind those two?

I have one blank "CE aviar" and a CE Spider with the mini star-stamp and both are stiffer than the later "normal" Champion Spider and Aviar I have, is it just a coincidence?

We just finished running BB Star and are working on KC Aviars. Working on Star Max. DX TeeRex up next. Star Eagles start soon. DX Starfires are in the line up. Everything is mainly stocking up.



Dave,
Is the Star Max coming into standard production? If so, is there a timeline? Thanks.



Yes, we are running now, but I am not sure when the general release will be. My guess is about 3 weeks.

If you take a look at the PDGA approved disc list (at http://www.pdga.com/documents/tech_standards/PDGA_approved_discs_and_targets.pdf) there are except the five classic CE-disc (VL, L, T (TL), E (EL) and F (FL, FX)) two other discs that are approved as CE, it is the Spider and CE Aviar. What is the story behind those two?

I have one blank "CE aviar" and a CE Spider with the mini star-stamp and both are stiffer than the later "normal" Champion Spider and Aviar I have, is it just a coincidence?



The stiffness is coincidental. The original CE discs were limited to Firebirds, Valkyries, TeeBirds, Eagles, Leopards. I don't remember any other discs in that material.

ROC ?

I think what he meant was that those were the 5 ORIGINAL CE discs. Others followed including the Roc, aviar, and to some the spider. There are some stingrays and cobras out there too i believe. Or at least they are claimed to be CE. Any others???

We are running gummy Star Rhynos right now for custom hotstamping or CFR. We can make them heavy or light depending on the mold, but weight should not be much of a problem. We could, at least, put some other gummy models in the same program and see what people think.


Would totally dig a gummy Rhyno...as I've just recently DISCovered a gummy QMS ~> GREAT disc!

Were there any TRUE CE discs that were NOT opaque...as in (approaching) transparent?

Well there are also some Gazelle�s, Cheetah's , JLS and some other Millennium discs which were made in the "CE-year of 2001", the plastic was really stiff just like the original CE.

Dave,
I see some Star BB Aviars are out there ... any ETA on the release of the Star Gator yet?



Where have you seen the Star BB Aviars? I can't seem to find them.

Thanks,

discgolfvalues.com

Dave,
I see some Star BB Aviars are out there ... any ETA on the release of the Star Gator yet?



Where have you seen the Star BB Aviars? I can't seem to find them.

Thanks,



Here (http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=07_BB) .

Well there are also some Gazelle�s, Cheetah's , JLS and some other Millennium discs which were made in the "CE-year of 2001", the plastic was really stiff just like the original CE.



There were some Gazelles (blue I think), but I don't know if we called them CE. The others might have gotten in on the tail end of the first CE stuff, but maybe not. As I said, stiff per se, is not the test. Smashing it up against a nasty spikey cement wall, is the real test.

Were there any TRUE CE discs that were NOT opaque...as in (approaching) transparent?



There were some discs made at the same time that were fairly transparent. Blueberry and red that you could hold up to the light and see through. Also, there might have been some yellow. Most of these would have been in lighter weights.

ROC ?



Maybe some, but not a general release.

There were some green light weight Gazelle's and Rhyno's in a clear CE plastic. They were CFR's in 2002. They remind me of the CE Spiders, not the really hard CE, closer to the Champion plastic.

Dave, what is the deal with the Goblins? Love the star-stamped first run ones. The Star ones are too domey/understable. But I just got a DX Goblin with USDGC stamp, and it looks domey, just like the Star plastic ones. Did you alter the Goblin mold from the first run DX ones? I am worried because the Goblin has become my "go to" upshot disc, and I want to be assured I can get a consistent supply of the ones like the first run DXs.

Thanks, really like that disc. A less-domey Star version would be awesome.

-E

Well there are also some Gazelle�s, Cheetah's , JLS and some other Millennium discs which were made in the "CE-year of 2001", the plastic was really stiff just like the original CE.



There were some Gazelles (blue I think), but I don't know if we called them CE. The others might have gotten in on the tail end of the first CE stuff, but maybe not. As I said, stiff per se, is not the test. Smashing it up against a nasty spikey cement wall, is the real test.



Oh no, :eek:, wont do that to my discs ;)

Dave, why did you got the approval from PDGA separately on the CE line, was it cause of the flexibility-rule or?
Well, some of them have different diameters compared to the originals mold?

PS. My Gazelle is a milky white one, the Cheetah is green and a bit transparent.

Dave, what is the deal with the Goblins? Love the star-stamped first run ones. The Star ones are too domey/understable. But I just got a DX Goblin with USDGC stamp, and it looks domey, just like the Star plastic ones. Did you alter the Goblin mold from the first run DX ones? I am worried because the Goblin has become my "go to" upshot disc, and I want to be assured I can get a consistent supply of the ones like the first run DXs.

Thanks, really like that disc. A less-domey Star version would be awesome.

-E



The Goblin hasn't been touched, but like other discs, the DX and Star versions are not always the same. You might want to try a Skeeter as an alternative.

Well there are also some Gazelle�s, Cheetah's , JLS and some other Millennium discs which were made in the "CE-year of 2001", the plastic was really stiff just like the original CE.



There were some Gazelles (blue I think), but I don't know if we called them CE. The others might have gotten in on the tail end of the first CE stuff, but maybe not. As I said, stiff per se, is not the test. Smashing it up against a nasty spikey cement wall, is the real test.



Oh no, :eek:, wont do that to my discs ;)

Dave, why did you got the approval from PDGA separately on the CE line, was it cause of the flexibility-rule or?
Well, some of them have different diameters compared to the originals mold?

PS. My Gazelle is a milky white one, the Cheetah is green and a bit transparent.



The CE line and the original CE plastic are not the same thing exactly. I was just over at the warehouse and saw a couple of boxes of clear orange CE TLs that were not original CE plastic. These had CE TL in the logo swoosh. These, like other models, were called CE, but were not the original plastic, that has also been called CE.

I am not sure why some discs were approved as CE and some were not.

Dave,
Can these Orange TL's at the Warehouse be purchased? i'd love to get my hands on another swoosh stamped TL.

-Scott Lewis

p.s. Great work on the Star Sidewinder.. I don't care much for the champion SW, but the Star is an amazing disc.. great hyzerflip driver. Also can't wait DX BB aviars :)

Dave,
Can these Orange TL's at the Warehouse be purchased? i'd love to get my hands on another swoosh stamped TL.

-Scott Lewis



I think so. Mark at discgolfvalues knows about them. You could contact him.

Dave,
I see some Star BB Aviars are out there ... any ETA on the release of the Star Gator yet?



Where have you seen the Star BB Aviars? I can't seem to find them.

Thanks,



Here (http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=07_BB) .



Can we get another link? That one is not working.

That's generally happens at DGV when they sell out of something :(

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE STAR GATOR!!

If anyone knows where I can get the first run (I believe) Champion Gators, the ones with the "ring" stamp, I would totally snatch up 10 or more. (NOT JOKING) The one I have had for the last year is the best disc in my bag. Still stable and predictable, and now just a touch longer. For some reason, the regular factory run Champion Gator doesn't do it for me.

THANKS!!

Dion

the disc shop off the shelly sharpe course in tempe [phoenix] arizona had some a week ago. their name is "spinners on the green" i think

Hi Dave,

Werent all the Champion Gators made in the same run? I thought that a few thousand were stamped with the Proto/First Run stamp and the rest were stamped factory?

Hi Dave,

Werent all the Champion Gators made in the same run? I thought that a few thousand were stamped with the Proto/First Run stamp and the rest were stamped factory?



I'm not sure. The stamping happened on separate dates though. I don't remember if they were stamped on a subsequent run, or the remainder of the first run.

can anyone help me find the posts on this thread where Dave was talking about the SOLF? i asked him a question, he responded. any search tips? thanks

Click on your name and go down all the way to the bottom of that page and click on view users post and you can go through all the posts you made, most are done by date but not all so look till you find it.

another option would be to search for SOLF (or better yet Orion) and limit the search to posts by Dave_D -- here is one post i found that was an exchange between you and Dave on "Orions":



Hi Dave--what do you think of the orions? are they all they are hyped to be? in other words, do you feel they fly as far on average as a wraith or other wider-rimmed discs, while affording more control because of the narrower rim? lastly--what would you compare their rim-width to, a teebird/eagle or valk/firebird? as always, thanks for your time.



I have had the most experience with the Q Orion LF. I personally think the Q is a better flyer than the Sirius in that particular mold. In 150 class, it is probably the best driver in the high durability plastic for distance and accuracy. In heavier weights, the Q Orion LF has a few peers, but still the combination of distance and accuracy is well worth checking out. The rim is similar in width to the Valkyrie. As for the question of whether the QOF will keep up with a Wraith on average, it depends mostly on how well you throw Wraiths. If don't know how to turn a Wraith over and keep it over, you will probably do better with an Orion. If you can turn a Wraith over and keep it over, you will do better for distance with a Wraith. Generally, the Orion is a more accurate disc than the Wraith, with comparable distance for the average thrower.

found it with the "view all of my posts" technique. thanks to both you guys--steven

Hey Dave, I throw a Spyder but on anything longer than 250 it turns over to easy, I love the Gator but I can not turn it over to get it longer than 250, what is there in between? A Roc, cause I don't like the lip on them and there is several molds and I might like one but I m not sure?

Hey Dave, I throw a Spyder but on anything longer than 250 it turns over to easy, I love the Gator but I can not turn it over to get it longer than 250, what is there in between? A Roc, cause I don't like the lip on them and there is several molds and I might like one but I m not sure?



A DX Gator will turn over more once you beat it in, if you like the grip on it. I would say try a Shark, or if you want something less stable the Coyote.

Hey Dave, I throw a Spyder but on anything longer than 250 it turns over to easy, I love the Gator but I can not turn it over to get it longer than 250, what is there in between? A Roc, cause I don't like the lip on them and there is several molds and I might like one but I m not sure?



The Shark would be next then the Coyote in 180 gm size. In the smaller diameter, the Skeeter.

go for the dx gator. it is in-between a spider and champ gator as far as stability goes.

Dave, I got one of the Wraith-X's from Mark @ discgolfvalues and the champion plastic seems waaaaaay more stiff than most of the stuff I have. And it just plain looks and feels better. Did you do anything different with these?

I got one of those also in my mailbox today...

Why does it say TRX on the bottom?

And it was STIFF!!!!!!!!!!!..... Cannot wait to let this thing handle some Winter Winds on Turkeyday.

Are these actual Champ TeeRexi, or are they marked wrong, or what?

I think they were supposed to be the new retooled Teerex's but it didn't quite turn out. That's why they were marked as TRX on the bottom. But it wasn't quite right so they were more like an X version of the Wraith. The description is on discgolfvalues.com

Hi Dave,

What can you tell us about the upcoming Star Max?

I think they were supposed to be the new retooled Teerex's but it didn't quite turn out. That's why they were marked as TRX on the bottom. But it wasn't quite right so they were more like an X version of the Wraith. The description is on discgolfvalues.com



Yes, this is the right info. As for the plastic being stiff: I hadn't noticed but I will look into it.

Hi Dave,

What can you tell us about the upcoming Star Max?



11-4-0-4. It's like a faster Firebird. Good for forehands, anhyzer flex, into the wind, and spikes. Don't know about UDs yet. Probably flips too fast upside down. Only comes in Star plastic at max or near max weights.

Dave

Do you have any info on the rubber sharks that were made a couple years ago?

thanks

: ) :

From what I remember they were a test run of sharks in the Omega SS plastic that were given to a few players to test to see if they liked em. A few years back in @ 2000.
Rumor has it there are a few players up in Cincinnati that have stacks of them. Otherwise my hookup is Mark at Discgolfvalues.

From what I remember they were a test run of sharks in the Omega SS plastic that were given to a few players to test to see if they liked em. A few years back in @ 2000.
Rumor has it there are a few players up in Cincinnati that have stacks of them. Otherwise my hookup is Mark at Discgolfvalues.



This is good info from Drew32

Thankee Dave

Best part about the one I have been useing is that its become more overstable with use as opposed to understable.
(its flattened out)

Would totally dig a gummy Rhyno...as I've just recently DISCovered a gummy QMS ~> GREAT disc!




I have a gummy Champ Rhyno that I love as a utility disc. I throw it a lot for anhyzer approaches over obstacles. I have never seen a disc that can drop straight down with no fade the way this one does.

Dave,

Have you thrown the new Sirius MS?

I am anticipating the standard release of the Star Max, it feels like an instant classic in the hand. I noticed that the mold seems to have less volume than the Wraith or Teerex, will this make it easier to produce in Champion? Its always nice to have a good overstable disc in Champion for durability as a utility disc.

The SOLS and SOLF are amazing discs, thanks! Any chance of designing a new overstable driver for Millenium?

Would totally dig a gummy Rhyno...as I've just recently DISCovered a gummy QMS ~> GREAT disc!




I have a gummy Champ Rhyno that I love as a utility disc. I throw it a lot for anhyzer approaches over obstacles. I have never seen a disc that can drop straight down with no fade the way this one does.


Magical Rhynos! What weight?
My max Champ Rhyno ain't gummy...that's fo sho. I've not warmed up to the Star Rhynos (yet?)...just something about DX (or SE/Pro soft Rhynos) that feels right for my mids and putters.

Dave,

Have you thrown the new Sirius MS?

I am anticipating the standard release of the Star Max, it feels like an instant classic in the hand. I noticed that the mold seems to have less volume than the Wraith or Teerex, will this make it easier to produce in Champion? Its always nice to have a good overstable disc in Champion for durability as a utility disc.

The SOLS and SOLF are amazing discs, thanks! Any chance of designing a new overstable driver for Millenium?



Yes, I have thrown the Sirius MS, but not for a prolonged time, so I don't know how it wears. It starts out stable with a mild fade. Good range.

Actually the Max is harder to produce as it has more volume than the Wraith or TeeRex.

There is always a chance of designing new discs for Millennium, but nothing is planned for the time being.

Hi Dave,

What can you tell us about the upcoming Star Max?



11-4-0-4. It's like a faster Firebird. Good for forehands, anhyzer flex, into the wind, and spikes. Don't know about UDs yet. Probably flips too fast upside down. Only comes in Star plastic at max or near max weights.


I must respectfully disagree with the 11-4-0-4 rating. I feel it's more like 10-4-0-5. It could be the two I have are freaks but they are way more stable than the Star Monsters and slower than Wraiths.

I must respectfully disagree with the 11-4-0-4 rating. I feel it's more like 10-4-0-5. It could be the two I have are freaks but they are way more stable than the Star Monsters and slower than Wraiths.


THat is the same thing that I have found. Way slower than a wraith/ teerex and super overstable.

Hi dave i have recentally switched my max distance drive to a 172g star monster i love it i throw a good drive with it at around 420' im only 15 and this disc has seemed to help out my overall distance alot. But now as i am throwing farther it seems to not be stable enough it turns over to much. i know the monsters in star plastic are in the L mold. Do you plan on makeing them in the orginal mold? If not what disc would you say is between a star monster and a star firebird?

Hi Dave,

in the indigenous tradition of giving thanks, i'm thankful that you revolutionized the sport of disc golf a few decades ago.
you da man! :D

Hi dave i have recentally switched my max distance drive to a 172g star monster i love it i throw a good drive with it at around 420' im only 15 and this disc has seemed to help out my overall distance alot. But now as i am throwing farther it seems to not be stable enough it turns over to much. i know the monsters in star plastic are in the L mold. Do you plan on makeing them in the orginal mold? If not what disc would you say is between a star monster and a star firebird?



Nothing in between, but you might try the Max. It's similar to the Monster, but faster. The stability on the Monster, (and many other large rimmed discs), is probably more dependant on molding that it is on the mold. We originally started out with the Monster in L configuration. It was inconsistently overstable so we tried X for a while. Some of those were too overstable, so we went back to the original L type. When the discs are molded properly, the L type is better IMO as they are high speed stable and have better range than the X type. If we can't solve the inconsistency problem, we will probably do X Monsters until we can do L type consistently well.

Hi Dave,

in the indigenous tradition of giving thanks, i'm thankful that you revolutionized the sport of disc golf a few decades ago.
you da man! :D



I am thankful to you and all the others who love disc golf. Otherwise, I would have had to go back to shrinking heads for a living. Not nearly as much fun.

Looks like your life's work would have been about stability either way. :D

When heads shrink - do they become more or less stable? :confused: ;)

depends on which kind of heads you are shrinking... :eek: ;) :o:D

depends on which kind of heads you are shrinking... :eek: ;) :o:D



:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

Still hoping for a star whippet sometime soon.

depends on which kind of heads you are shrinking... :eek: ;) :o:D



:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

Still hoping for a star whippet sometime soon.


He said shinking heads, not disc.

Question: What is the difference in the star plastic and the original (first run) QJLS/JLS Millenium plastic I like so much?

Question: What is the difference in the star plastic and the original (first run) QJLS/JLS Millenium plastic I like so much?



The Millenium plastic sets up domier, feels a little tackier, and doesn't last as long as the Star plastic.

Question: What is the difference in the star plastic and the original (first run) QJLS/JLS Millenium plastic I like so much?



The Millenium plastic sets up domier, feels a little tackier, and doesn't last as long as the Star plastic.



But the first run (CE-JLS) has been some of the most durable discs I have ever had in my bag. Years of use and very little break-in and very little visible wear.

Question: What is the difference in the star plastic and the original (first run) QJLS/JLS Millenium plastic I like so much?



The Millenium plastic sets up domier, feels a little tackier, and doesn't last as long as the Star plastic.



Dave, are you talking about regular Millenium plastic, Q plastic, or Sirius plastic? :confused:

Sounds like Dave was definetely comparing Star Vs. Millennium standard. I'm not sure what the original poster was asking, but I'll bet he was referring to the CE type Millennium plastic.

Sounds like Dave was definetely comparing Star Vs. Millennium standard. I'm not sure what the original poster was asking, but I'll bet he was referring to the CE type Millennium plastic.



Yes, I was talking about regular Millennium.

Sounds like Dave was definetely comparing Star Vs. Millennium standard. I'm not sure what the original poster was asking, but I'll bet he was referring to the CE type Millennium plastic.



Yes, I was talking about regular Millennium.



Original poster here: I was referring to the opaque (non-transluscent) plastic from a few years ago that looks and feels much like star plastic. Not quite as shiny though. Is that regular Millenium? I can't keep track of all the "runs". Just wanted to know how similar it was to today's "star" plastic.

if you were talking about the QJLS -- that would be Q plastic -- the JLS would be regular Millenium plastic. from what i gather, until Sirius (similar to Star) came out there was only Millenium (similar to Innova Pro) and Quantum/Q (similar to Champion). i hear that the early QMS's were CE plastic??? were all the early Q's CE? :confused:

[/QUOTE]Original poster here: I was referring to the opaque (non-transluscent) plastic from a few years ago that looks and feels much like star plastic. Not quite as shiny though. Is that regular Millenium?

[/QUOTE]

Dave, I am curious too about early Millenium plastic. I am carrying a couple of opaque orange QJLS's that have tournament stamps from 2002. Could these be the CE type plastic or were they opaque for another reason? Thanks for you time!!

PS I would love to see INNOVA come out with a special "gummy" line of champion plastic. I just love my gummy Leopard and Monster X.

(similar to Champion). i hear that the early QMS's were CE plastic??? were all the early Q's CE? :confused:



Q plastic hasn't changed, as far as I recall.

Original poster here: I was referring to the opaque (non-transluscent) plastic from a few years ago that looks and feels much like star plastic. Not quite as shiny though. Is that regular Millenium?

[/QUOTE]

Dave, I am curious too about early Millenium plastic. I am carrying a couple of opaque orange QJLS's that have tournament stamps from 2002. Could these be the CE type plastic or were they opaque for another reason? Thanks for you time!!

PS I would love to see INNOVA come out with a special "gummy" line of champion plastic. I just love my gummy Leopard and Monster X.

[/QUOTE]

I am at a loss about opaque Q. Translucent Q could just be heavier weights, but opaque sounds like regular Millenium or Sirius type plastic.

Hi Dave. I'm wondering of the Star Gator, and Star Eagle are going to make it to retailers before Christmas? I'm making my Christmas list and would love to add a couple of these to it ... if they are around.
Will these be available first at discgolfvalues or zonedriven?

I really need a 167 - 169 Star Whippet please !!!!!!!!

Hopefully in 2007 ?

Dave,

Curious about the Star Stingray? I've have two very different looking discs claiming to be Stingrays. One is very flat across the top and is stamped Ontario, CA and the other is very domey on top and the bottom stamp does not indicate where it was made. Although both are Star, the plastic does not feel the same, the Ontario is gummier/grippier. Is this a run thing or are there two molds?

Dave,

Curious about the Star Stingray? I've have two very different looking discs claiming to be Stingrays. One is very flat across the top and is stamped Ontario, CA and the other is very domey on top and the bottom stamp does not indicate where it was made. Although both are Star, the plastic does not feel the same, the Ontario is gummier/grippier. Is this a run thing or are there two molds?



The original Stingray mold has been repaired and is now used for all Stingrays. Before the repair, we used the Ontario mold for the Star, as the San Marino mold wouldn't work. The new mold is the San Marino type.

Hi Dave. I'm wondering of the Star Gator, and Star Eagle are going to make it to retailers before Christmas? I'm making my Christmas list and would love to add a couple of these to it ... if they are around.
Will these be available first at discgolfvalues or zonedriven?



I was told here that the Star Gator will be available in about a week. The Star Eagle is still running so it will take a week or so after that.

Interesting, would you compare the flights ?

Interesting, would you compare the flights ?



They both fly like Stingrays, but I find the Ontario Mold (Flat Top) to be faster, the other seems to float more. I like the Ontario mold because it feels more like a flat top roc in my hand, which I am used to. Both myself and a friend find the Ontario mold makes for a better roller disc.

Dave,
Does this mean that all future Star Stingray will be the San Marino and not the Ontario mold?

Interesting, would you compare the flights ?



They both fly like Stingrays, but I find the Ontario Mold (Flat Top) to be faster, the other seems to float more. I like the Ontario mold because it feels more like a flat top roc in my hand, which I am used to. Both myself and a friend find the Ontario mold makes for a better roller disc.

Dave,
Does this mean that all future Star Stingray will be the San Marino and not the Ontario mold?



Yes, the flattop (Ontario) was just a stopgap measure. Although the retooled mold will not say San Marino, it is the same.

Hey Dave, way to beat Geoff Lissaman at the SoCal Championships!!!

Hi Dave,
We have the speed rating of how fast a disc WILL go, but is there a rating of how fast it NEEDS to go to fly properly? I guess it would be the speed at the hit. I'll call it muzzle velocity. An anology would be a Cessna 150 needing 63MPH at takeoff or a Boeing 737 needing 150MPH at takeoff.
So a Stingray might not to have the same muzzle velocity as a Firebird. Is there a guide about this anywhere for people without big arms?
Thanks,
Axis

We just finished running BB Star and are working on KC Aviars. Working on Star Max. DX TeeRex up next. Star Eagles start soon. DX Starfires are in the line up. Everything is mainly stocking up.



Dave,
Is the Star Max coming into standard production? If so, is there a timeline? Thanks.



I might have missed this question, but any plans for a slew of discs in gummy plastic? I really like the soft stuff. :eek:

Any plans on a Moray in any plastic???

Hi Dave,
We have the speed rating of how fast a disc WILL go, but is there a rating of how fast it NEEDS to go to fly properly? I guess it would be the speed at the hit. I'll call it muzzle velocity. An anology would be a Cessna 150 needing 63MPH at takeoff or a Boeing 737 needing 150MPH at takeoff.
So a Stingray might not to have the same muzzle velocity as a Firebird. Is there a guide about this anywhere for people without big arms?
Thanks,
Axis



I used to have an "operating range" for our discs, but the rest of the staff thought it was too hard to understand. We instead sometimes indicated that some discs were better for beginners or were only for "experienced" players or something like that. You are definitely right about the operating speed for discs. The flight descriptions we give are predicated on someone being able to throw 300 ft. But even the ability to throw 300 ft won't get some of the higher speed discs to work properly. People who are only able to throw 280 ft will find all of our drivers to be stable or overstable.

We just finished running BB Star and are working on KC Aviars. Working on Star Max. DX TeeRex up next. Star Eagles start soon. DX Starfires are in the line up. Everything is mainly stocking up.



Dave,
Is the Star Max coming into standard production? If so, is there a timeline? Thanks.



I might have missed this question, but any plans for a slew of discs in gummy plastic? I really like the soft stuff. :eek:



We are going to run some discs in gummy or at least gummier than we had been doing. Rhynos and Spiders were two we did already.

Any plans on a Moray in any plastic???



Not at this time.

Any plans on a Moray in any plastic???

The Sentinel from Millenium is the closest disc still available.

Any plans on a Moray in any plastic???



Not at this time.



Doh, bad quote. This was in reply to the gummy question earlier

Any drivers? I throw a clear gummy velocity (shaddap) alot, and it's waaaaaaaaaay different from the regular stiff champ style ching velocities (finished straight every time.). A gummy monster that I have I am afraid to throw very much, because it was a purple that has turned clear long ago and is a prime candidate for getting lost. I'd love to get a gummy orc or wraith as well. :D

Also, it seems the gummy stuff is very durable as well. Any notes on its toughness/durability that would keep it from getting runs in the major molds?

Also, it seems the gummy stuff is very durable as well. Any notes on its toughness/durability that would keep it from getting runs in the major molds?



Gummy stuff is very hard to mold consistently in drivers. Usually the gummy stuff produces understable discs, but sometimes, it's just the opposite. The reject rate is very high and so is the cycle time. On the other hand, we have had some success with Rhynos, Sharks, MSs, and Spiders. We have done Valyries, Aviars, Rocs, (150gm), and TeeBirds, but they were pretty iffy.

Hey Dave

Have you ever tried doing drivers out of the white KC plastic used for the ROC and Aviar? How did they turn out? Wonder what a Teebird TL or a Wraith in that stiff plastic would be like.
Thanks
David Bihl

Wonder what a Teebird TL or a Wraith in that stiff plastic would be like.

or leopard

Also, it seems the gummy stuff is very durable as well. Any notes on its toughness/durability that would keep it from getting runs in the major molds?



Gummy stuff is very hard to mold consistently in drivers. Usually the gummy stuff produces understable discs, but sometimes, it's just the opposite. The reject rate is very high and so is the cycle time. On the other hand, we have had some success with Rhynos, Sharks, MSs, and Spiders. We have done Valyries, Aviars, Rocs, (150gm), and TeeBirds, but they were pretty iffy.



I have a 150gm Sidewinder that I would call gummy, and I love that disc. If gummy is easier in lower weights and if it makes discs less stable, I would love to see more gummy. I don't know if my issue is with slow armspeed or decreased snap, but I am unable to throw (effectively) many of the Innova drivers because they behave too over-stabley (new word?).

Hey Dave

Have you ever tried doing drivers out of the white KC plastic used for the ROC and Aviar? How did they turn out? Wonder what a Teebird TL or a Wraith in that stiff plastic would be like.
Thanks
David Bihl


Pretty sweet.... i would think. But then again i don't know much about disc making....but i think they would have a good feel in the hand.

Have you made any regular Champ Wraiths yet?

I think it's still part of the Pro Worlds 2007 fundraising program for a while longer.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Hey Dave

Have you ever tried doing drivers out of the white KC plastic used for the ROC and Aviar? How did they turn out? Wonder what a Teebird TL or a Wraith in that stiff plastic would be like.
Thanks
David Bihl



Yes, we have made KC Whippets in the past. The were too stiff for the PDGA specs. We can't use that for drivers any more.

I used to have an "operating range" for our discs, but the rest of the staff thought it was too hard to understand. We instead sometimes indicated that some discs were better for beginners or were only for "experienced" players or something like that. You are definitely right about the operating speed for discs. The flight descriptions we give are predicated on someone being able to throw 300 ft. But even the ability to throw 300 ft won't get some of the higher speed discs to work properly. People who are only able to throw 280 ft will find all of our drivers to be stable or overstable.


Dave, My mind started spinning (now I'm dizzy).
Where do you think a person (throwing in this 275' to 300' range) should draw the line. As in throwing a driver correctly vs throwing something that fades all the time.
Drivers that are more "straight" like Valks and Orion LS.
Drivers that have more right turn (RHBH) like Sidewinders.
Maybe a step down the ladder: Teebirds, Eagles, JLS
Maybe another step down the ladder: Gazelles, Leopards, Polaris LS.

My own distance is in the 280' to 300' to 320' range and I find my Eagles and JLSs going nearly the same distance(s) as my Valks and Orion LFs.

Or maybe this would be better (although not my situation). You are working with someone younger (or older for that matter). You started this person with a putter and then some type of mid. Their form is OK (not great). They are just now getting ready for driver. What would you hand them first?

leopard?

150 Leopard

I used to have an "operating range" for our discs, but the rest of the staff thought it was too hard to understand. We instead sometimes indicated that some discs were better for beginners or were only for "experienced" players or something like that. You are definitely right about the operating speed for discs. The flight descriptions we give are predicated on someone being able to throw 300 ft. But even the ability to throw 300 ft won't get some of the higher speed discs to work properly. People who are only able to throw 280 ft will find all of our drivers to be stable or overstable.


Dave, My mind started spinning (now I'm dizzy).
Where do you think a person (throwing in this 275' to 300' range) should draw the line. As in throwing a driver correctly vs throwing something that fades all the time.
Drivers that are more "straight" like Valks and Orion LS.
Drivers that have more right turn (RHBH) like Sidewinders.
Maybe a step down the ladder: Teebirds, Eagles, JLS
Maybe another step down the ladder: Gazelles, Leopards, Polaris LS.

My own distance is in the 280' to 300' to 320' range and I find my Eagles and JLSs going nearly the same distance(s) as my Valks and Orion LFs.

Or maybe this would be better (although not my situation). You are working with someone younger (or older for that matter). You started this person with a putter and then some type of mid. Their form is OK (not great). They are just now getting ready for driver. What would you hand them first?



You are not doing yourself any favors by throwing discs that are too fast or too heavy for your power level. (The one exeption might be when you are throwing into a wind. All of the discs you named except the TeeBird and Eagle would be good choices in lighter weights for newer, younger, or older players. There are some advantages to throwing more stable and heavier discs, but only if you have the strength and technique necessary to power them. Otherwise they are mainly a way to get tired, sore, and frustrated.

Can you comment on why you thought the Eagle and Tee Bird would not be good choices for a semi-newbie?


Dave, how about a 1-25 scale for "Power Required" to further differentiate your disc-choice lineup?

Maybe a "Technique/Skill Required" scale would make more sense?

I used to have an "operating range" for our discs, but the rest of the staff thought it was too hard to understand. We instead sometimes indicated that some discs were better for beginners or were only for "experienced" players or something like that. You are definitely right about the operating speed for discs. The flight descriptions we give are predicated on someone being able to throw 300 ft. But even the ability to throw 300 ft won't get some of the higher speed discs to work properly. People who are only able to throw 280 ft will find all of our drivers to be stable or overstable.


Dave, My mind started spinning (now I'm dizzy).
Where do you think a person (throwing in this 275' to 300' range) should draw the line. As in throwing a driver correctly vs throwing something that fades all the time.
Drivers that are more "straight" like Valks and Orion LS.
Drivers that have more right turn (RHBH) like Sidewinders.
Maybe a step down the ladder: Teebirds, Eagles, JLS
Maybe another step down the ladder: Gazelles, Leopards, Polaris LS.

My own distance is in the 280' to 300' to 320' range and I find my Eagles and JLSs going nearly the same distance(s) as my Valks and Orion LFs.

Or maybe this would be better (although not my situation). You are working with someone younger (or older for that matter). You started this person with a putter and then some type of mid. Their form is OK (not great). They are just now getting ready for driver. What would you hand them first?



You are not doing yourself any favors by throwing discs that are too fast or too heavy for your power level. (The one exeption might be when you are throwing into a wind. All of the discs you named except the TeeBird and Eagle would be good choices in lighter weights for newer, younger, or older players. There are some advantages to throwing more stable and heavier discs, but only if you have the strength and technique necessary to power them. Otherwise they are mainly a way to get tired, sore, and frustrated.



Dave, I've written an introduction to disc golf and guide to disc selection on my MySpace page (see my "signature below). In it, I recommend starting with a Stingray, Cobra or Shark and an Avair or Supersoft and I suggested a stability range. I also added though, that if you want to get better and develop a good long drive, overstable disc make good training discs. Early on, I picked up a Whippet. I loved throwing it and I used to practice with it trying to push it out further and further. It helped a lot.

Can you comment on why you thought the Eagle and Tee Bird would not be good choices for a semi-newbie?


Dave, how about a 1-25 scale for "Power Required" to further differentiate your disc-choice lineup?

Maybe a "Technique/Skill Required" scale would make more sense?



The Eagle and the TeeBird have to be thrown like a Firebird as they won't flip up at all at those distances. Plus they both have too much low speed overstability. We used to have a skill reference for discs. I think in the longer versions of our disc descriptions, we say whether they are good for newer players. At any rate, I think it is a good idea to have a Operating Power or Operating Range notation.

Can you comment on why you thought the Eagle and Tee Bird would not be good choices for a semi-newbie?


Dave, how about a 1-25 scale for "Power Required" to further differentiate your disc-choice lineup?

Maybe a "Technique/Skill Required" scale would make more sense?



http://discgolf.gottagogottathrow.com/catalog/information.php/info_id/7?osCsid=1f55ea28457e16bf0d575fdb0c6cc63b

Gotta Go Gotta Throw has put this flight chart together. They define 5 power levels based on a typical length range for your drives. Each disc has turn and fade numbers, and then the power required to make the disc perform this way. It's a great chart, I go back to it over and over again when I am fitting new players to discs. One issue I see with discs is that people buy them based on the "name", and they just cannot throw a Wraith, but are offended to throw a Panther. In my mind it is very important to fit newcomers with the right discs so that they keep coming back.

Dave, if Innova added a fifth number to their rating that corrsponded to how far you typically need to be able to throw to make a disc perform close to its flight chart, you may be doing a great service to the sport, helping people enjoy their game more, and keep coming back. I do like that you define turn and fade, rather than just one number like discraft.

The Eagle and the TeeBird have to be thrown like a Firebird as they won't flip up at all at those distances. Plus they both have too much low speed overstability. We used to have a skill reference for discs. I think in the longer versions of our disc descriptions, we say whether they are good for newer players. At any rate, I think it is a good idea to have a Operating Power or Operating Range notation.


At first, your reply surprised me. But then I thought back to my first year (no form to speak of) and remembered the three most frustrating discs (of the several I tried) were the Roc, Eagle, and Firebird.
I wouldn't want to see your current numbering scheme changed, but I think you are right in the need for some type of range/power rating.
Thanks.

Some people don't want to think of themselves as a "beginner" either. But they need to be honest about how far they CAN throw, and realize that the right disc will help them improve technique, accuracy, confidence, and thus start gaining some distance.

If you go with power requirement numbers, make sure it is blatantly obvious that this is how far you need to be able to throw to make the disc fly accordingly, NOT how far the disc will go (otherwise everyone will buy nothing but Wraiths).

I usually throw around 300, everynow and then booming one out to 350. My wraith and orc do go farther than anything else. Should I not be throwing them. I have been playing for about a year. I have only played in one tourney but I did come in second, beat out like 30 other people who have been playing longer. Would it be better if I started throwing different discs? I want to be able to throw 350 everytime.

The thing is that golf is all about consistency and accuracy. If you are throwing the discs that are well suited for your power and snap, then you may find that you consistently and controlably throw 325'. More distance will come without a lot more effort if you learn to throw the discs the way they were meant to be thrown and let the discs do the work. Increased distance is usually a result of better technique, not more power, and it's easier to learn the proper technique with discs that are suited for your power level.

Maybe reference your "power requirement" to one weight disc too - like 170g. Add the disclaimer that heavier have less turn and therefor will exhibit more fade. And vice versa for lighter discs.

<font color="red"> I joined the PDGA just to talk to Dave on this forum. </font>

Dave I want a bent arm throwing lesson....:D:D

...anyway...

Are the new Star BB Aviars and Rhynos coming in stiff Star plastic? Is there a color that would be the stiffest?

What mold is used for the Star BB Aviar? IS it the KC Pro or JK Aviar? Or are these the same?

Are the new Star BB Aviars and Rhynos coming in stiff Star plastic? Is there a color that would be the stiffest?

What mold is used for the Star BB Aviar? IS it the KC Pro or JK Aviar? Or are these the same?



The Star BBs are in medium stiff plastic. I don't know of any color differences with regard to stiffness. The Rhynos come in medium and gummy.

The mold for the Star Aviar Driver is the same as the JK and KC Aviars.

Does anyone know when that new star max driver that's being advertised on the innovadiscs.com site is going to be available?

Yup check the site, it says Dec. 7th along with some other goodies!!

I have a disc with a 1991 "Oaksociad" stamp. Anyone know anything about it? It's a Barracuda.
Thanks.
Post#1

Hey Dave

I was just wondering when the new run of KC putters(12x) is set to come out.I was also wondering why these style (KC) of putters seem to me to be far more similiar disc to disc than anything else. Thanks

Hey Dave

I was just wondering when the new run of KC putters(12x) is set to come out.I was also wondering why these style of putters seem to me to be far more similiar disc to disc than anything else. Thanks

Original poster here: I was referring to the opaque (non-transluscent) plastic from a few years ago that looks and feels much like star plastic. Not quite as shiny though. Is that regular Millenium?

[/QUOTE]

Dave, I am curious too about early Millenium plastic. I am carrying a couple of opaque orange QJLS's that have tournament stamps from 2002. Could these be the CE type plastic or were they opaque for another reason? Thanks for you time!!

[/QUOTE]

If the opaque orange is not at all translucent, it might be the precursor to Sirius plastic.

Hey Dave

I was just wondering when the new run of KC putters(12x) is set to come out.I was also wondering why these style of putters seem to me to be far more similiar disc to disc than anything else. Thanks



They have been stamped and have been moved to current stock, so they should be available.

Hey Dave, would you know if there have been any gummy orion lfs run, Q or sirius?

Dave,
I know earlier you had talked about retooling the Teerex...Has this pushed back the general release of DX Teerexes? Will the mold actually be changing for the retool as well?
Thanks!
J

Hey Dave, would you know if there have been any gummy orion lfs run, Q or sirius?



No, I don't think so.

Dave,
1. Are the Champion Bags ever comming out?
2. Are there any plans to make STAR Cobras?
Thanks.

Dave,
I know earlier you had talked about retooling the Teerex...Has this pushed back the general release of DX Teerexes? Will the mold actually be changing for the retool as well?
Thanks!
J



We believe we were successful with the retool, and are currently running the DX.

Dave,
1. Are the Champion Bags ever comming out?
2. Are there any plans to make STAR Cobras?
Thanks.



The Champion bags should be available shortly. I am not sure exactly when. We do plan running Star Cobras. There has already been a test run. Mark at discgolfvalues might have some.

Heya Dave

I want to thank you guys for the Monster X that you made a few years ago. I just won in my division yesterday at the D.V.Memorial One Disc Challenge here in Lexington using only one max weight Monster for both rounds. (putting upside down)
I shot my best score with it of 4 under the first round.

Any chance of a signature disc?
Just kidding.
But really once again I'll have to say Monster X's are by far the best mold there was.
Thanks again
Drew

hey dave,
this might be a stupid question, but, are you still making the aviar in champion plastic?
thanks

Is the Max mold going to be ran in any other plastics other than star?

hey dave,
this might be a stupid question, but, are you still making the aviar in champion plastic?
thanks



We are discussing what sort of Champion plastic to run. We haven't made a final decision yet.

Is the Max mold going to be ran in any other plastics other than star?



We are going to try it in DX. We will try some gummy Champion too. I don't know if either of those will work.

hey dave,
this might be a stupid question, but, are you still making the aviar in champion plastic?
thanks




We are discussing what sort of Champion plastic to run. We haven't made a final decision yet.





My vote goes for a beadless CFR Glo Aviar.

Gummy Max?!
That could be fun to throw. I'd get a couple

Is the CFR raffle drawing today?

Is the CFR raffle drawing today?



The last Tuesday of each month is the scheduled drawing. I assume they have done it and will email the results to the winners. The results have not been posted on line as yet.

hey dave,
this might be a stupid question, but, are you still making the aviar in champion plastic?
thanks



We are discussing what sort of Champion plastic to run. We haven't made a final decision yet.



GUMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

Heya Dave

But really once again I'll have to say Monster X's are by far the best mold there was.
Thanks again
Drew



This is no Mel Torme... but he knows a good disc.

Dave I got a question as far as the fundraising slips for the CFR discs. I have some building up and am wondring if I should send them in or if there is a time limit on when you can send them in. Thanks in advance.

Is the CFR raffle drawing today?



What is the CFR raffle? Sounds like fun.

Dave I got a question as far as the fundraising slips for the CFR discs. I have some building up and am wondring if I should send them in or if there is a time limit on when you can send them in. Thanks in advance.



You should have sent them in as soon as possible. You are missing the monthly drawings. I don't know if there is a time limit or not. The 2006 slips are still viable though. I am not sure about the 2005 slips.

If I buy a CFR disc from an online retailer should I still get a certificate to turn in?

Speaking of the CFR program; who won for November?

What is the CFR raffle? Sounds like fun.



Each time you purchase a CFR disc it comes with a Certificate of Authenticity and form to enroll in the Sponsor Rewards Program. Every month names are drawn to receive rewards. The details are available here: Sponsor Rewards Program (http://www.innovadiscs.com/cfr/rewards.html)


If I buy a CFR disc from an online retailer should I still get a certificate to turn in?



Yes, you should get a certificate from an online retailer selling a CFR disc. An exception could be buying a disc a private party is selling. They may have already sent in the certificate. You should always check when buying a CFR disc online whether the certificate is included.



Speaking of the CFR program; who won for November?



The November winners should be posted online soon. They are:

2007 USDGC Partners Pack - Mark L - Milwaukee, WI
2005 Champions Signature Disc - Jim R - Phoenix, AZ
DISCatcher� Traveler Target - Jim C - Newton, IA
Innova T-Shirt - Tony B - Missouri City, TX
INNOVA Merchandise Pack - Gary D - Plano, TX
USDGC DVD - Josh F - Hillsburough, NC
DISCatcher� Mini Target - Ned V - Herinton, KS
3-Disc INNOVA Training Set - John - Douglas City, CA
Champions DVD - Kevin M - Tulsa, OK
INNOVA Knit Cap - RJ M - Milan, IL
3-Pack Newly Released Discs - Clayton - Coeur D'Alene, ID

Dave please let me know I think I have one from last year if it is still good I will send it in.

Here is a question Dave.
I recently switched from Innova to Discraft...
Why does the Discraft plastic fly further with less effort than the Innova plastic???

If I may answer for Dave, all discs fly further with less effort, if you are making too much effort. :cool:

Same effort, new disc's!

Here is a question Dave.
I recently switched from Innova to Discraft...
Why does the Discraft plastic fly further with less effort than the Innova plastic???



man...some people have no shame.