Hey Dave,

Have recent runs of Champ. Firebirds been less domey?? Need to stock up on some flatliners. BTW, Glow Champion FB's are perfect :D

also, anything new on the millennium horizon?

thanks for all you do !

We are currently running FBs. I believe it is Star though. I will check. Today I heard that the lighter weights were running flatter, and they were going to try to replicate that with the heavier.

Nothing new on the Millennium front.

Dave,

Do the BB Aviars ever get run in DX? I like putting with JKs but sometimes in the heat they get a little too floppy and the KCs are still a little to stiff. Thanks!

Yes we run BB driver Aviars in DX.

Dave,

Are there any plans to run Star Gazelles in the future?

Yes we run BB driver Aviars in DX.

Are they only available for tournament stamps or something? They aren't listed on Innova's website and I can't seem to find them from any of the online retailers that I've looked through yet except with non-standard hot stamps.

We are currently running FBs. I believe it is Star though. I will check. Today I heard that the lighter weights were running flatter, and they were going to try to replicate that with the heavier.

Nothing new on the Millennium front.

No new Champion yet. The Star are running very flat. I hope we can do that with Champion too.

Dave,

Are there any plans to run Star Gazelles in the future?

Yes, but not for a while and they won't be offered in normal channels. They will be part of a separate offering of older stuff like the Gazelle, Scorpion, and maybe even Coupe.

Are they only available for tournament stamps or something? They aren't listed on Innova's website and I can't seem to find them from any of the online retailers that I've looked through yet except with non-standard hot stamps.

I'm not sure why they are not listed. I will find out.

Dave,
I would like to see a Star or Pro Coupe.

Dave,
I would like to see a Star or Pro Coupe.

We would probably have to stick to R-Pro as anything else would most likely be too heavy or too stiff.

Are they only available for tournament stamps or something? They aren't listed on Innova's website and I can't seem to find them from any of the online retailers that I've looked through yet except with non-standard hot stamps.

Yes, they are only available for tournament hot stamps. I was told we don't list those discs because they change all the time.

Dave-

Any chance for glow zephyrs?

Thanks for all your work.

Yes, they are only available for tournament hot stamps. I was told we don't list those discs because they change all the time.

Cool, thanks Dave!

Dave-

Any chance for glow zephyrs?

Thanks for all your work.

Yes. No idea of a time frame as yet.

Make them Champion Glow Zephyrs!!!

Dave -

Are any sweet limited or special run discs going to be around for the USDGC (other than the Roc)? In years past I remember the Champ Bosses, Pro Bosses, etc...

Dave -

Are any sweet limited or special run discs going to be around for the USDGC (other than the Roc)? In years past I remember the Champ Bosses, Pro Bosses, etc...

The only ones I know about are the Rocs at this point.

The only ones I know about are the Rocs at this point.

Are they Roc+ or one of the other molds?

Are they Roc+ or one of the other molds?

Roc+, is what I sent them recently, however, they may have some others from a previously shipment that I don't know about.

Since I cant get a response about getting a disc run.......

Also, from 2 years ago: How about Glo Champion RoadRunners?

From Today: How about Glo Champion Katanas?

Since I cant get a response about getting a disc run.......

Also, from 2 years ago: How about Glo Champion RoadRunners?

From Today: How about Glo Champion Katanas?

I don't see why we wouldn't run both of these. The Glow Champ Katana is already scheduled to run after regular Champion Katanas.

hey dave,

watched your grip video last night. great info but it was hard to see the actual grips you were making with that all white background. the only time i could tell what you were doing was when the disc was in front of your shirt. just a suggestion but i'd try a different background for your next video.

hey dave,

watched your grip video last night. great info but it was hard to see the actual grips you were making with that all white background. the only time i could tell what you were doing was when the disc was in front of your shirt. just a suggestion but i'd try a different background for your next video.

There were no specific grips. Just a video to stress the importance of opposing thumb pressure on all backhand and sidearm grips.

i got that much, it would've just been nice to clearly see your hand. i am more of a visual learner than a theory leaner. seeing is understanding...thanks anyway tho, now if this **** rain would go away so i can try some new ideas

i got that much, it would've just been nice to clearly see your hand. i am more of a visual learner than a theory leaner. seeing is understanding...thanks anyway tho, now if this **** rain would go away so i can try some new ideas


We do have a page at our site that has close up clear pictures of many different grip variations. You could see them there if you would like to.

Dave,

With the Star San Marino Roc in regular production is there any chance that a Star Rancho could be put in regular production? Seems as if the USDGC passed on the chance to produce any of those this year and instead went with an all champion lineup.

Dave,

With the Star San Marino Roc in regular production is there any chance that a Star Rancho could be put in regular production? Seems as if the USDGC passed on the chance to produce any of those this year and instead went with an all champion lineup.


I suppose there is a chance. Champion Rocs are what the collectors mainly want, from what I hear.

Yes Please make the Rancho in Star. Not the Roc+ Just regular Rancho

Yes Please make the Rancho in Star. Not the Roc+ Just regular Rancho

I concur!

Yes Please make the Rancho in Star. Not the Roc+ Just regular Rancho

or at least in the TFR availability

or at least in the TFR availability

No Please just production Run. Oh and Star XDs DAVE PLEASE!!!!!!!

Can I use as a custom hotstamp for some Pro plastic discs the exact hotstamp that was put on the disc when it was a "Champion Edition" disc? I bet I could use that as a great fundraiser if I could get some Valkyries with that hotstamp!

Dave,

We recenty ran an event and got some Champion Makos. They are sweet! Has there been an run of champion Makos before?

Yes Please make the Rancho in Star. Not the Roc+ Just regular Rancho

Amen! Shout It From The Roof-Tops! We want Rancho's. NOT RANCHO+

Might be a great Christmas disc to run. Red Star Rancho Rocs with Green foil stamps.

I have some of the x-out champ makos, they are super domey, have yet to try them though.

Dave, are all of the lighter weight star bosses starlight plastic? If not, is there an easy way to distinguish between the two? I've got two that are tournament stamped from 2009 that look like they were marked 167 and then sharpied over to say 169, almost like they were weighed again. I remember reading that the ones in the 160's were super stable, but didn't know if that was a one time thing, or if all of them go through the stabilization process. Thanks in advance.

Dave,

We recenty ran an event and got some Champion Makos. They are sweet! Has there been an run of champion Makos before?

That was a small test run. Not for production as yet.

Dave, are all of the lighter weight star bosses starlight plastic? If not, is there an easy way to distinguish between the two? I've got two that are tournament stamped from 2009 that look like they were marked 167 and then sharpied over to say 169, almost like they were weighed again. I remember reading that the ones in the 160's were super stable, but didn't know if that was a one time thing, or if all of them go through the stabilization process. Thanks in advance.


It used to be that all the Star Bosses less than 168 were Starlight and were super over stable, but this season we were able to make some bosses that were down to 167gm, I believe, in regular Star and possibly Champion. One way to tell if you are looking for a lighter super over stable Boss, is to check the rim and see if there is any grainyness or a sort of sandy look. Only the Starlight has that, but not all of them do.

The East Coast needs Ch. 150 SW. Anytime soon?

The East Coast needs Ch. 150 SW. Anytime soon?

No. Wasn't possible.

It used to be that all the Star Bosses less than 168 were Starlight and were super over stable, but this season we were able to make some bosses that were down to 167gm, I believe, in regular Star and possibly Champion. One way to tell if you are looking for a lighter super over stable Boss, is to check the rim and see if there is any grainyness or a sort of sandy look. Only the Starlight has that, but not all of them do.

cool, i did notice the graininess on one of them, have to inspect the other. were any other discs ran like that, or was that something necessary to get bosses down that light at the time?

No. Wasn't possible.
???????????

I've got dozens of 150g Champion Sidewinders.

???????????

cool, i did notice the graininess on one of them, have to inspect the other. were any other discs ran like that, or was that something necessary to get bosses down that light at the time?

We might have done some destroyers and Katanas too, but mainly, it was the Boss to make lighter weights. Starlight was very tricky to run.

???????????

I've got dozens of 150g Champion Sidewinders.

???????????

Yes, it is possible sometimes when the plastic is lighter. Lately, we could only run them at 153g with any consistency. The plastic changes from batch to batch usually.

It used to be that all the Star Bosses less than 168 were Starlight and were super over stable, but this season we were able to make some bosses that were down to 167gm, I believe, in regular Star and possibly Champion. One way to tell if you are looking for a lighter super over stable Boss, is to check the rim and see if there is any grainyness or a sort of sandy look. Only the Starlight has that, but not all of them do.

So are we going to see more of the original Starlights? Those grainy ones are the best, most consistent Boss there is, despite the fact they are so beefy. Once you break them in, which took me about a season, they bomb.

These newer more grippy versions.....not so much.

Yes, it is possible sometimes when the plastic is lighter. Lately, we could only run them at 153g with any consistency. The plastic changes from batch to batch usually.


Is this why whenever I order Champion X-Outs all I keep getting is 150 class Champion Sidewinder X-Outs?

Is this why whenever I order Champion X-Outs all I keep getting is 150 class Champion Sidewinder X-Outs?

X outs is what we got we when tried to run lower weights.

I've got dozens of 150g Champion Sidewinders.

Send me a PM. tom@discgolfwarehouse.com

Thanks,

Tom, you probably got dozens of everything!

Hey, you going to WDGC next year? I've never played DeLa, and it is very tempting for me to go.

Bill, I would have trouble just hiking around that mountain, much less playing.
Wish I could. I should have gone years ago when I was in decent shape.
There was always something going on down here when Tom S ran the Santa Cruz event.
I know he runs a great tourney, and have always enjoyed his company.
You should go. See if Ron will go with you.

Oh, Tom,

You have always been in better shape than me, and I bet you still are now. You were the last time I saw you (IDGC grand opening, April 07). Hope I get to see you again while we can.

And Santa Cruz is only Pro WDGC, so I doubt Ron would go.

Take care,

I just picked up a few of the 2011 Asia Open R-Pro XDs and they're great. They feel as good as the gummy champ XD that the Japan Open had last year and are far better for putting than the DX XD in my opinion. Are you planning on making more of them?

What about a new run of Star XDs too?

I just picked up a few of the 2011 Asia Open R-Pro XDs and they're great. They feel as good as the gummy champ XD that the Japan Open had last year and are far better for putting than the DX XD in my opinion. Are you planning on making more of them?

What about a new run of Star XDs too?

Are they As Gummy as the Frist Test Run R-Pros?

I just picked up a few of the 2011 Asia Open R-Pro XDs and they're great. They feel as good as the gummy champ XD that the Japan Open had last year and are far better for putting than the DX XD in my opinion. Are you planning on making more of them?

What about a new run of Star XDs too?

We will run R-Pro XDs again. Star XDs are not in the schedule as yet.

Are they As Gummy as the Frist Test Run R-Pros?

About as gummy as the stiffer batch of the test runs.

Are they As Gummy as the Frist Test Run R-Pros?

Nope. These ones are about the same as the red champion plastic gummy XDs from the Japan Open last year. They are a huge improvement over the super gummy yellow ones available at the same event. I've got a few red R-Pro XDs with the "Big D in the Desert" stamp that feel almost like DX plastic but they are too firm.

You hit the sweet spot with these ones Dave. Nice work.

But don't neglect the Star XDs.

Nope. These ones are about the same as the red champion plastic gummy XDs from the Japan Open last year. They are a huge improvement over the super gummy yellow ones available at the same event. I've got a few red R-Pro XDs with the "Big D in the Desert" stamp that feel almost like DX plastic but they are too firm.

You hit the sweet spot with these ones Dave. Nice work.

But don't neglect the Star XDs.

You wanna part with the Firm Big D ones?

Hey Dave,

How would you compare the discmania md2 to the star mako?

Hey Dave,

Anything new on the horizon with Innova? ... Its that time of year again.

i am putting a list together of all the rocs that are distributed for the USDGC, Spectators and Event releases. need help in compiling the correct numbers. could use anyone/everyone's help whom has knowledge of what the total numbers were released over the years from 2001-2010. i have a numbers (excel) document with most of the numbers inputed. if you would like a copy to look at please send me a personal message with your email. if you check on championroc.com, i have a copy of the document for download to look at

Hi Dave-
of the currently available firebirds, which are the most overstable, star or champ? i have to mailorder and want to be sure i get the most overstable versions.
thanks

Hi Dave-
of the currently available firebirds, which are the most overstable, star or champ? i have to mailorder and want to be sure i get the most overstable versions.
thanks

I'm not sure I can answer your question properly. The Firebirds we are running now are the flattest and most overstable in years, but I don't know if they are currently available. We ran Star, Glo, and Champion and they were all very flat and over stable. I don't know how long it will take them to get into general availability.

Hey Dave,

How would you compare the discmania md2 to the star mako?

The MD2 is more stable, especially in the wind.

Hey Dave,

Anything new on the horizon with Innova? ... Its that time of year again.

Yes, we are playing with some new high speed driver technology.

thanks Dave.
will these newer star and champ firebirds have the same 12x stamp, or will there be a way to tell them apart, other than the flatness? just curious as i have to mailorder.
thanks again

thanks Dave.
will these newer star and champ firebirds have the same 12x stamp, or will there be a way to tell them apart, other than the flatness? just curious as i have to mailorder.
thanks again

I don't know about the hot stamp right now, but they are strikingly different and very flat compared to anything we have molded recently. Should be no problem ordering them from a reputable dealer.

thanks Dave.
will these newer star and champ firebirds have the same 12x stamp, or will there be a way to tell them apart, other than the flatness? just curious as i have to mailorder.
thanks again

Call the Store you are ordering from. Usually stores are pretty helpful and you can explain to them what you want.

Glad to hear the Firebird is back to overstable Thanks Dave

Yes, we are playing with some new high speed driver technology.

Sounds sweet! Can't wait to see what you have in store for us ...

p.s. Loving the C DD2! Longest disc I have ever thrown.

Dave,
Any chance of heavy Champion XDs?

Sounds sweet! Can't wait to see what you have in store for us ...

p.s. Loving the C DD2! Longest disc I have ever thrown.

Try the echo star, I think it's longer...

Dave,
Any chance of heavy Champion XDs?

Yes. No time frame yet.

Yes. No time frame yet.

Nice.......... How do the Champ ones for the Japan open fly??? ANy one?

Dave,
Have you ran champ glow Bosses? I ask because I picked up a white/clear stock stamped champ boss and when I got home and tossed it on my bed it glowed very faintly. I figured it was just remnants from a previous mold/shot but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Dave,
Have you ran champ glow Bosses? I ask because I picked up a white/clear stock stamped champ boss and when I got home and tossed it on my bed it glowed very faintly. I figured it was just remnants from a previous mold/shot but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Probably just a residual material. The Glo is a very fine powder that sometimes gets caught in the machine and released later. We don't have any Champion Glo Bosses listed and we don't remember running any.

Have you ever tried glow Star plastic?

Thanks, Dave!

Hey Dave, just lost my 11 x KC champ/pro Eagle. Replaced it with a new 12 x champion Eagle. They don't seem to fly the same. Is there a difference?

Hey Dave, just lost my 11 x KC champ/pro Eagle. Replaced it with a new 12 x champion Eagle. They don't seem to fly the same. Is there a difference?

Could be a different batch of plastic or an original type Eagle compared with an Eagle X. The Eagle X has a bigger concavity in the beveled edge.

Have you ever tried glow Star plastic?

Doesn't work. Glow needs to be a translucent material.

Glow opaque DX works. :confused:

Glow opaque DX works. :confused:

We have to, and can put a much higher loading of glow in DX to compensate for the opacity. We can't do that with the high tech plastics.

hay Dave-
what molds are used to make star and champ monsters currently? L or X?
the Max's look to have a L type wing. true?
thanks

While I am not Dave, I do have several monsters on the shelf. In the ones I have recently got in the Champs are X and the Stars are L.

hay Dave-
what molds are used to make star and champ monsters currently? L or X?
the Max's look to have a L type wing. true?
thanks

I believe all are an in between XL type now, but depending on how they mold, some look more like X than others.

Is there a reason the new dyed Champion Firebirds dont carry the KC signature?

Also, Ive noticed some diffference in stability ( and plastic ) between the last year batch and current releases of the Starlight Boss ( 166-168 ). In the past you said Innova had gotten better at using the Starlight , does that include adding less? These dont seem to have anywhere near the bite of the older versions.

Thanks Dave.

Another glow question;

So now that you released the Beast in DX glow does that mean more drivers in glow dx such as wraiths and starfires etc in dx glow? (and yes, I know they are available in CFR champ)

Also why don't you guys ever release the Holloweennova stamped discs in standard glow plastic?

I believe all are an in between XL type now, but depending on how they mold, some look more like X than others.


Good to know there is a 3rd version.

Is there a reason the new dyed Champion Firebirds dont carry the KC signature?

Also, Ive noticed some diffference in stability ( and plastic ) between the last year batch and current releases of the Starlight Boss ( 166-168 ). In the past you said Innova had gotten better at using the Starlight , does that include adding less? These dont seem to have anywhere near the bite of the older versions.

Thanks Dave.

Don't know the answer about the KC signature yet. We did get better at using Starlite, but also got better at producing lighter weights without Starlite. The Starlite discs have a little yellowing appearance of white plastic, and most times have some pitting around the edges. It used to be very difficult to get Bosses down below 168 without using Starlite, but now we can get down to around 165gms without Starlite. We haven't used Starlite for about a year now, but may resume in the future. We should be able to go down to 162-163gms. These will be segregated from normal runs of Bosses.

Another glow question;

So now that you released the Beast in DX glow does that mean more drivers in glow dx such as wraiths and starfires etc in dx glow? (and yes, I know they are available in CFR champ)

Also why don't you guys ever release the Holloweennova stamped discs in standard glow plastic?

More drivers may be available in glow in the future. It just depends on what the sales guys ask for.

The Holloweennova stamp has been done on orange discs, but I can't think of why we wouldn't want to do some glow with that stamp. Good idea, I think.

I have some "Halloweenova" Aviars in inverse colors (i.e., orange stamp on black disc). I believe they are from 2002 or 2003.

Don't know the answer about the KC signature yet. We did get better at using Starlite, but also got better at producing lighter weights without Starlite. The Starlite discs have a little yellowing appearance of white plastic, and most times have some pitting around the edges. It used to be very difficult to get Bosses down below 168 without using Starlite, but now we can get down to around 165gms without Starlite. We haven't used Starlite for about a year now, but may resume in the future. We should be able to go down to 162-163gms. These will be segregated from normal runs of Bosses.

So it would be safe to assume, the originals wont be duplicated in terms of stability?

I just bought out almost all the blank versions of the original Starlights from the East, so it isnt an issue for me. People have gotten used to them now, like me, and I think they are the best Bosses made. Thanks!

So it would be safe to assume, the originals wont be duplicated in terms of stability?

Is!

I believe so, unless and until we make another run of Starlites.

dave,

i have a question about the gremlin. what mold is the discmania gremlin? my buddy has both star and pro line gremlins that are definitely very different, especially on the rim. but the discmania gremlin doesn't feel or like very much like either of them. i liked the pro line mold but the star mold isn't as favorable. thanks in advance

Dave any new disc coming out end of this year or beginning of next year thanks

dave,

i have a question about the gremlin. what mold is the discmania gremlin? my buddy has both star and pro line gremlins that are definitely very different, especially on the rim. but the discmania gremlin doesn't feel or like very much like either of them. i liked the pro line mold but the star mold isn't as favorable. thanks in advance

The Gremlin is basically the old Sniper. It has been made in different materials and at least two versions. There is a third possibility of a beadless version too. I believe we are using the beaded version with extra stability for the Discmania Gremlin. I will have to check stock.

Dave any new disc coming out end of this year or beginning of next year thanks

We have a 13/14 speed driver coming out December. It will be in Pro plastic at first. It hasn't been submitted for approval yet.

The Gremlin is basically the old Sniper. It has been made in different materials and at least two versions. There is a third possibility of a beadless version too. I believe we are using the beaded version with extra stability for the Discmania Gremlin. I will have to check stock.

I checked and it is so. We are using the beaded extra stable version.

We have a 13/14 speed driver coming out December. It will be in Pro plastic at first. It hasn't been submitted for approval yet.

Cool can u give us specs or the name

I found a disc that i have not seen before. it is Star plastic but has no stamp on it. it is shaped like a midrange but kind of understable. the ink underneath says *V. what is this??

Probably a misprint.


So Dave, are those Gremlins the same as the CFR Champion Gremlins? Think that we will ever see a Gremlin that compares to the Pro Line? None released have compared, in all honesty. Maybe its the plastic, but the older Pro Lines were flatter, the CFR and DiscMania versions all are domey. They are also a guessing game. I bought 2 of the CFRs one flipped the other flew like a Gator.

The Beadless versions were in Star from about 3 years ago.

DM GMs are, unfortunately, very similar to CFR Gremlins in their massive dominess. Beadless Gremlins were run in April '06 in STAR, DX, and Champion (the latter two materials being extremely limited, with the only examples I possess bearing either the US Masters '06 or SoCal Championships '06 stamp) and are pretty darned flat on top, similar to their beaded siblings, Pro Line and old DX Gremlins.

Cool can u give us specs or the name

Right now the only specs are that it is about a 13/14 speed and a 3/4 glide. The high speed is -2/-3 depending on nose angle and the low speed is 0 to +3, again depending on nose angle. Right now they will be offered in low weights predominately from 157gms up to about 164gms. Can't post the name until we get it certified.

What different mini molds are out there from Innova? I've seen metal rocs, first run aviars, 2 different style mini-drivers. We need heavy glow minis!

Glow Champion Aviars are money! They've been my key to 2nd place ca$hes at both of the mini tournaments I played in '10/

What different mini molds are out there from Innova? I've seen metal rocs, first run aviars, 2 different style mini-drivers. We need heavy glow minis!

We have made several types including Aero, Aviar, TeeBird, and super Aviar.
Currently we are only making super Aviar type in DX, glow and super heavy DX.
The DX are about 25gms, the Glow are about 30gms and the super heavy are about 40-45gms.

Probably a misprint.


So Dave, are those Gremlins the same as the CFR Champion Gremlins? Think that we will ever see a Gremlin that compares to the Pro Line? None released have compared, in all honesty. Maybe its the plastic, but the older Pro Lines were flatter, the CFR and DiscMania versions all are domey. They are also a guessing game. I bought 2 of the CFRs one flipped the other flew like a Gator.

The Beadless versions were in Star from about 3 years ago.

the Pro Line's were definitely fantastic! and given more time on the market i bet they woudve gained a good following. bummer to hear that the new ones aren't this mold...o well.
the only other one ive tried was a star, that was super domey and way overstable. it was garbage...imo.
thanks for the reply dave.

sounds like this new driver is geared towards lower weights, unlike the other fast drivers. was this your intention while designing it dave?

[QUOTE=
sounds like this new driver is geared towards lower weights, unlike the other fast drivers. was this your intention while designing it dave?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I wanted a 13/14 speed driver that would be legal in Japanes Pro Class.

so is it gonna be faster than a katana? if so, how did you make that happen?

so is it gonna be faster than a katana? if so, how did you make that happen?

It might be, but it won't go farther that a Katana downwind. It's not a glider, just a wind penetrator. Maybe upwind and definitely better control at lower weights.

Doesn't the Japanese weight restriction, partially for "safety," seem a little naive these days considering the advancements in disc speed since the early 90s standards?

Doesn't the Japanese weight restriction, partially for "safety," seem a little naive these days considering the advancements in disc speed since the early 90s standards?

It seems all the more necessary. The weight restriction still remains at 152gms except for the pro class. And, I certainly wouldn't call the Japanese naive.

So why do you believe there's still any limit? Simply tradition? Seems like the downside of non-conformity with the World is greater than any imagined upside regarding the unspoken primary reason for the limit (which was never really there) has subsequently disappeared. Perhaps adopting Super Class standards for ams and rec play, except for PDGA pros with regular PDGA weight limits, might achieve the original goals for the 150 weight limit. It sounds like most PDGA events are on temp layouts with reasonable exclusion from other park goers?

So why do you believe there's still any limit? Simply tradition? Seems like the downside of non-conformity with the World is greater than any imagined upside regarding the unspoken primary reason for the limit (which was never really there) has subsequently disappeared. Perhaps adopting Super Class standards for ams and rec play, except for PDGA pros with regular PDGA weight limits, might achieve the original goals for the 150 weight limit. It sounds like most PDGA events are on temp layouts with reasonable exclusion from other park goers?

I don't understand your point, if you have one. Lighter discs are safer than heavier, especially at any range from the tee. The Japanese disc golf governing bodies believe it is necessary for their recreational disc golf. Apparently, you don't agree with that.

Faster discs have a greater range of influence, as far as trauma goes, heavy or light, compared with blunt discs. Probably what you don't accept is the fact that heavier disc have a greater range of influence than lighter discs with respect to damage. Lighter discs slow down faster than heavier because they don't penetrate as well. They turn into floaters more quickly. While your super class might not lacerate as much as the fast discs, they are stillgood at producing bruises, because of the mass they carry. The safest class is definitely and unarguably vintage because it is the bluntest and lightest. It slows down the fastest, has the least impact mass, and the bluntest nose.

The public parks that share the space, is the concern in Japan.

Potential damage from a disc is going to be mass times speed tempered by edge sharpness. The Eclipse at 150g was the "worst case" example at the time the 150 class specs were made. Since then, the speed of discs with that same maximum allowed edge sharpness has increased about 50%. Getting hit by a 150g Eclipse would be "better" than one at 175g but still not exactly desireable. That was a problem with the initial specs but that ship has sailed long ago. However, if the 150g Eclipse was the worst case when the specs were written, wouldn't you agree that all of the advancements in speed since then have essentially gone way past the initial intent for protecting against potential damage? It would seem that a better way to go would be to allow max weight discs but restrict the disc models allowed to those with rounder edges as specified by the Rim config in the PDGA specs. Then, only the model of disc would need to be controlled and not worry about whether it's 152g or less.

Potential damage from a disc is going to be mass times speed tempered by edge sharpness. The Eclipse at 150g was the "worst case" example at the time the 150 class specs were made. Since then, the speed of discs with that same maximum allowed edge sharpness has increased about 50%. Getting hit by a 150g Eclipse would be "better" than one at 175g but still not exactly desireable. That was a problem with the initial specs but that ship has sailed long ago. However, if the 150g Eclipse was the worst case when the specs were written, wouldn't you agree that all of the advancements in speed since then have essentially gone way past the initial intent for protecting against potential damage? It would seem that a better way to go would be to allow max weight discs but restrict the disc models allowed to those with rounder edges as specified by the Rim config in the PDGA specs. Then, only the model of disc would need to be controlled and not worry about whether it's 152g or less.

That ship seemingly has sailed too. I argued this position twenty or more years ago when I saw it coming. Measuring weight allowance by inside rim diameter, rather than outside rim diameter would have done it. It was turned down by the PDGA. So too was my argument for a wider nose radius.

The PDGA was going for the larger nose radius but (apparently) got their mind changed by another manufacturer.

Does a Mako go straight on 40-50meters as well, like a Pure or aviar?

Does a Mako go straight on 40-50meters as well, like a Pure or aviar?

I don't know what a Pure is, but it is about as straight on a 40-50M shot as an Aviar Putter. The Mako is a longer flyer with more glide than an Aviar.

Dave,

Recently came across this baby and had never seen one before.
Wondered if you could shed any insight?
Thanks,

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/alexjohnson13/Innova/IMG_2114.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/alexjohnson13/Innova/IMG_2116.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/alexjohnson13/Innova/IMG_2115.jpg

Dave,
Why is it so hard to find Rhyno's in colors other than White? You see a lot of pro discs in different colors. Rhyno's and Pigs tend to just be White, with a few in yellow (now) or Orange(haven't seen R-pro). I would totally buy bright pink, yellow, orange, etc for fall leaf color contrasts; and I have 16 Pro rhynos already. Is there any chance that Innova will produce the R-Pro Rhyno in alternate colors (other than yellow).

The dyed Rhyno looks like a privately dyed disc.

Dave,
Why is it so hard to find Rhyno's in colors other than White? You see a lot of pro discs in different colors. Rhyno's and Pigs tend to just be White, with a few in yellow (now) or Orange(haven't seen R-pro). I would totally buy bright pink, yellow, orange, etc for fall leaf color contrasts; and I have 16 Pro rhynos already. Is there any chance that Innova will produce the R-Pro Rhyno in alternate colors (other than yellow).

R-Pro Rhynos were mainly white because they are relatively difficult to make in colors, but we are now making other colors.

The dyed Rhyno looks like a privately dyed disc.

I figured that was my option. Just dye them the color that I want. Neon pink is going to be difficult.

Any difference in stability on ch and star Mako?
174g for straight 40-50m and 180g for straight 80-90m?

....And to follow that up...What would the differences be between a Champ Mako and Champ MD2. From searching through some forums it sounds as if the MD2 is a hair more stable in terms of both LSS and HSS...?

Any difference in stability on ch and star Mako?
174g for straight 40-50m and 180g for straight 80-90m?

I don't know for sure, but Champion tends to be a hair more stable, and Glow Champ tends to be a hair more stable than that.

....And to follow that up...What would the differences be between a Champ Mako and Champ MD2. From searching through some forums it sounds as if the MD2 is a hair more stable in terms of both LSS and HSS...?

Yes, the MD2 is more stable high and low. The Mako is better in the woods and the MD2 is better in the open and wind.

Dave,

I noticed that Will S, Avery and a few others are now Team Innova and Discmania. What is the relationship going to be team wise now? Will all Team Innova players be able to throw Discmania or a select few? What are the disc restrictions on the Discmania players?

I'm not Dave, but I think that Innova sponsored players have always been allowed to throw Discmania (or Millennium discs). Innova makes the discs for these other companies, its all good. In fact- Climo's currently rocing, excuse me, rocking the MD2.

Morning, Dave.

What current plastic is SE comparable to and when was it produced?

Thanks,
Pete

Morning, Dave.

What current plastic is SE comparable to and when was it produced?

Thanks,
Pete

SE was never a specific plastic. It was Special Edition and it could have been
anything. Usually, it was either a driver Pro type plastic or a early Star or Champion type. It might have also been an early R-Pro type.

They were produced around 2000 to 2003, I believe. Just a guess.

Dave,

Now that Pigs (and a few other discs) have switched to R-pro plastic, do you think the stability has changed any>?

Thanks

Dave,

Now that Pigs (and a few other discs) have switched to R-pro plastic, do you think the stability has changed any>?

Thanks

No. Not for me. I throw R-Pro Pigs.

dave,

do you know of any CFR classic rocs that have gone out recently?

dave,

do you know of any CFR classic rocs that have gone out recently?

I don't, but I don't deal directly with CFR. I supply the disc for the program. We are currently running the Classic Roc in DX. If the program needs any
CFR types, I will be able to make them.

Hey Dave,

Any update on the new Driver that you were mentioning was due out sometime in Dec.?

Mike

Hey Dave,

Any update on the new Driver that you were mentioning was due out sometime in Dec.?

Mike

Well, the one I was working on got pushed back to January or February.

However, we do have a different one coming out in December. The December driver is a single weight, float in water long range driver called the Wahoo. It weighs about 169 gms in R-Pro, which is the only material it will be made in. Preliminary numbers are 13, 6, -2, +3.

The driver I was talking about before will be a very light weight high speed turning driver. These will be made of Star, Champion, and driver Pro. Preliminary numbers for these: 13, 5, -3, +2. These will be available in weights down to about 158 gms.

Neither of these drivers are meant for pros. They are meant for players with less power who want to get more distance.

Hopefully, we'll be able to buy an officially licensed hot stamped disc with Chief Wahoo on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Wahoo :)

Well, the one I was working on got pushed back to January or February.

However, we do have a different one coming out in December. The December driver is a single weight, float in water long range driver called the Wahoo. It weighs about 169 gms in R-Pro, which is the only material it will be made in. Preliminary numbers are 13, 6, -2, +3.

The driver I was talking about before will be a very light weight high speed turning driver. These will be made of Star, Champion, and driver Pro. Preliminary numbers for these: 13, 5, -3, +2. These will be available in weights down to about 158 gms.

Neither of these drivers are meant for pros. They are meant for players with less power who want to get more distance.
Thank you - great info.

Hopefully, we'll be able to buy an officially licensed hot stamped disc with Chief Wahoo on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Wahoo :)
we?

what are the chances the tank could be brought back? would they be available for CFR/TFR by some miracle?

we?
Gotta be at least one more Tribe fan out there.

Gotta be at least one more Tribe fan out there.

Jake Taylor maybe? or Ricky Vaughn?

what are the chances the tank could be brought back? would they be available for CFR/TFR by some miracle?

That has been discussed. It probably will be back in some program at some time.

So how is this any different than a Katana? Just the weight?

That has been discussed. It probably will be back in some program at some time.

thats a very Jedi-ish answer. lol

So how is this any different than a Katana? Just the weight?

judging by one of dave's earlier comments on the goal of these drivers, is that it would be easier to turnover with more control for lower power players than the Katana.

So how is this any different than a Katana? Just the weight?

Similar to the Katana, but easier to turn over and it comes in much lower weights. This is an out of the box flip roller for power players. We are probably marking it as a -3 because it will be first released in Star. However, in Pro, it is definitely a -4 turn. We will be giving it a good test this weekend so it may very well end up being a -4.

I assume you are asking about the second disc and not the Wahoo.

Right now the only specs are that it is about a 13/14 speed and a 3/4 glide. The high speed is -2/-3 depending on nose angle and the low speed is 0 to +3, again depending on nose angle. Right now they will be offered in low weights predominately from 157gms up to about 164gms. Can't post the name until we get it certified.

Just to clear things up: The disc I was talking about in this quote no longer exists except for the proto shots, it was designated XB.

I was concurrently working on a different driver which has been submitted and is called the Wahoo. Flight numbers are expected to be 12, 6, -2, 2. This is a float in water long range driver in R-Pro and weighing about 169gms.

After finishing the Wahoo, I went back to designing a high speed, low weight driver similar to the Katana, but at lower weights, and with more high speed turn. This disc won't be ready for release until next year.

dave,
has there ever been a rhyno in champ glow plastic? if not, would it be possible for a future cfr candidate?

i've just switched to the rhyno in champ plastic and it has been great for my game.

Hi Dave,

I had new batch of KC Pro Aviars recently for a PDGA event I ran. I noticed on the bottom it doesn't have the words "San Marino, CA. 91108-8368" under Innova Champion Discs, Inc.

I had a customer ask me are these San Marino Mold kc pro aviars?

Please advise and thank you in advanced,

Josh

dave,
has there ever been a rhyno in champ glow plastic? if not, would it be possible for a future cfr candidate?

i've just switched to the rhyno in champ plastic and it has been great for my game.

Definitely possible if we think it will have sufficient appeal for cfr.

Hi Dave,

I had new batch of KC Pro Aviars recently for a PDGA event I ran. I noticed on the bottom it doesn't have the words "San Marino, CA. 91108-8368" under Innova Champion Discs, Inc.

I had a customer ask me are these San Marino Mold kc pro aviars?

Please advise and thank you in advanced,

Josh

The last of the two San Marino Aviar molds has had to be repaired. So new engraving went on with the www.innovadiscs.com

Any San Marino Aviar is now a collector item as it no longer will be produced as such.

The new www KC Aviars are KILLER!!!!! They are so close to 10x's it's rediculous. I've only seen them tourney stamped and 172ish.

The new www KC Aviars are KILLER!!!!! They are so close to 10x's it's rediculous. I've only seen them tourney stamped and 172ish.

Some of them are this way. Some are Domey and real "chunky" I have noticed that the new ones with the 3 Circles on the underside are the 10X replicas. Very Nice

San Marnios are still my favorites they are softer and falt top

Dave,

In the 2002/2003 timeframe, CE Classic Rocs were made in a domey mold which is similar to a DX Classic Roc:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5835/ceclassicroc.jpg

Since 2004, CE Classic Rocs and Champion Classic Rocs have made with a blunt edge mold similar to a Ching Roc with a lower parting line, which makes it somewhat more overstable and more importantly, reduces glide:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5835/ceclassicroc.jpg

Imo, the latter disc isn't really a Classic Roc at all...it really flies nothing like a DX Classic Roc with the flight pattern we've all come to know and love. Is there any chance that Champion Classic Rocs will again be made in the old style mold? I absolutely LOVE these discs because they offer all the flight characteristics of the DX version with increased durability - I tend to beat up my DX Classic Rocs relatively quickly.

Thanks.

Any news about the R-Pro Coupe? Will you try it?

Any news about the R-Pro Coupe? Will you try it?

I'd try it, I like that shallow rim.

Dave,

In the 2002/2003 timeframe, CE Classic Rocs were made in a domey mold which is similar to a DX Classic Roc:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5835/ceclassicroc.jpg

Since 2004, CE Classic Rocs and Champion Classic Rocs have made with a blunt edge mold similar to a Ching Roc with a lower parting line, which makes it somewhat more overstable and more importantly, reduces glide:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5835/ceclassicroc.jpg

Imo, the latter disc isn't really a Classic Roc at all...it really flies nothing like a DX Classic Roc with the flight pattern we've all come to know and love. Is there any chance that Champion Classic Rocs will again be made in the old style mold? I absolutely LOVE these discs because they offer all the flight characteristics of the DX version with increased durability - I tend to beat up my DX Classic Rocs relatively quickly.

Thanks.
We can still make Classic Rocs like a few years ago, but they didn't fly like the originals. That's why we changed. The original was much more stable to start, like the blunt nosed model. The original mold had gotten so soft flying that it resembled an XD, rather than a Classic Roc. The glide is a different matter. It is mostly dependent on how it is molded. If it is molded flatter, it will have less glide. If it is molded domier, it will have more glide. I think what you might want is the newer model in a domier version. Otherwise, you might want an XD. Either way, we will make some of the older type from time to time for people who just want it they way it was. Hopefully, we will have that available about this time next year. We are currently moving things around to make more room.

Any news about the R-Pro Coupe? Will you try it?

Yes, but no time frame yet.

Dave,
Is Ahart's recollection correct on these bald Eagle's? I have one that I bought from Molnar years ago. Any idea on how many exist? Thx
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290505489897&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Dave,
Is Ahart's recollection correct on these bald Eagle's? I have one that I bought from Molnar years ago. Any idea on how many exist? Thx
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290505489897&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Very few ever existed. They are a milky white and are about 130gms and stiff. Probably no engraving. I don't know how Ahart got them if he has them.

Dave,
Love the Discmania DD, was wondering if they will ever be released in C-Line? Or if they are available as CFR?

Dave,
Love the Discmania DD, was wondering if they will ever be released in C-Line? Or if they are available as CFR?

Discmania is introducing C-Line this season, but only a few models at first. I am pretty sure they will eventually have a C-DD.

Very few ever existed. They are a milky white and are about 130gms and stiff. Probably no engraving. I don't know how Ahart got them if he has them.




So how many do you have Dave? We may have talked about it before and I dont remember, but what does your collection of discs look like?

Have you kept much over the years? If you havent who has?

So how many do you have Dave? We may have talked about it before and I dont remember, but what does your collection of discs look like?

Have you kept much over the years? If you havent who has?

I have never collected discs. I have the first disc out of the first mold. I had some of the early shots, but I believe Lowell Shields of Seattle got those. Tim had a fairly large collection and archived some discs too.

Im sure it would be really hard to keep track of everything. Any regrets that you didnt?

I am suprised you didnt keep more for yourself or that the company hasnt kept a warehouse full of stuff. I wouldve thought when you were changing the direction of disc golf with these designs someone wouldve thought of the future.

Im not talking in terms of money either, though its my primary reason for my hoarding problem. If I were in your shoes, Id probably need either a second house or another warehouse just for storage....which I could see as a reason for avoiding collecting.

I wish someone would have though, and wouldve documented stuff alot better. The info out there on alot of Innova collectable level discs is full of half truths and speculation.

Thanks for your insight.

That's part of the thrill of collecting, Chase. If everything were perfectly documented, the fun of finding that secret gem would disappear.

Just this week, a treasure trove of over 250 previously unseen & uncatalogued Picasso paintings & sketches was unearthed. Many millions of $$ of new goodies for collectors that may have been bored previously with the meticulously-catalogued Picasso body of work.

I dont disagree, but Im not asking for perfection. More along the lines of record keeping. Or, more of a suggestion for the future than anything.

I dont disagree, but Im not asking for perfection. More along the lines of record keeping. Or, more of a suggestion for the future than anything.

There have been several people doing that including Tim.

I have the first disc out of the first mold.

please elaborate

please elaborate

The initial cut on the mold was wrong. The flight plate was twice as thick as
it should have been. We found that out after the first two test shots. I got both and cut one in half to measure. I kept the other. The retool ended up being the Eagle, which still wasn't to the specs I gave. It was later retooled to the Aero.

Definitely possible if we think it will have sufficient appeal for cfr.

Glow Champ Rhyno's:

I'll buy 5. Innova has just the 1 glow putter. Need to get this done for us Rhyno lovers. More people I know throw Aviars, but I know more people that carry more than 4 Rhyno's than I do that carry more than 2 aviars.

We can still make Classic Rocs like a few years ago, but they didn't fly like the originals. That's why we changed. The original was much more stable to start, like the blunt nosed model. The original mold had gotten so soft flying that it resembled an XD, rather than a Classic Roc. The glide is a different matter. It is mostly dependent on how it is molded. If it is molded flatter, it will have less glide. If it is molded domier, it will have more glide. I think what you might want is the newer model in a domier version. Otherwise, you might want an XD. Either way, we will make some of the older type from time to time for people who just want it they way it was. Hopefully, we will have that available about this time next year. We are currently moving things around to make more room.

Dave, thanks a bunch for the info. I eagerly look forward to old mold Champion Classic Rocs in the future.

dave,
what's going on with the newer innova discs not having champ's signature? i first noticed the roc (the roc!), and now the newest teebirds.

i've always felt the that innova/climo relationship was akin to the nike/tiger association in regards that both companies represent and stand behind a living, breathing icon that did and continues to do so much for each of their respective sports above and beyond scores and victories.

when i first saw a golf disc for sale and was curious what the sport was all about, the first thing i did after buying those first discs was 'googling' climo's name and was blown away by his statistics and accomplishments.

it gave such a validity to the sport, that for me made buying that plastic all the more special.

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x443/leswhite6082/kc.jpg

dave,
what's going on with the newer innova discs not having champ's signature? i first noticed the roc (the roc!), and now the newest teebirds.

i've always felt the that innova/climo relationship was akin to the nike/tiger association in regards that both companies represent and stand behind a living, breathing icon that did and continues to do so much for each of their respective sports above and beyond scores and victories.

when i first saw a golf disc for sale and was curious what the sport was all about, the first thing i did after buying those first discs was 'googling' climo's name and was blown away by his statistics and accomplishments.

it gave such a validity to the sport, that for me made buying that plastic all the more special.

thats why i originally started throwing innova, cause kenny was the bomb. maybe their doing something similar to discraft with a signature and standard line.

dave,
what's going on with the newer innova discs not having champ's signature? i first noticed the roc (the roc!), and now the newest teebirds.

i've always felt the that innova/climo relationship was akin to the nike/tiger association in regards that both companies represent and stand behind a living, breathing icon that did and continues to do so much for each of their respective sports above and beyond scores and victories.

when i first saw a golf disc for sale and was curious what the sport was all about, the first thing i did after buying those first discs was 'googling' climo's name and was blown away by his statistics and accomplishments.

it gave such a validity to the sport, that for me made buying that plastic all the more special.

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x443/leswhite6082/kc.jpg

I am not sure right now. Either it was an over sight when we put the numbers on or we made the Star discs the signiture discs. Either way, Kenny is still the TeeBird guy, as well as the KCAviar, KC Roc, one of the Wraiths, and I believe one other. Kenny is definitely worth his endorsement money, and always has been.

The Vulcan? Please Dave, tell us more.

The Vulcan? Please Dave, tell us more.

The Vulcan is a light weight long range driver similar to the Katana, but with less low speed over stability, and a little more high speed turn. The Pro Katana and Star Vulcan are close, but the Pro Vulcan and Star Katana are not. The Vulcan will be available in weights down to about 159gms and up to 175g. This is not a disc for big arms, unless they want an out of the box roller, which it does very well in heavy Star for those with power. For those without power, a lighter weight Pro will probably do the roller trick. It's also not a disc for play in the wind. It's for the distance disenfranchised. It makes throwing long much easier, especially in the lower weights. It still has a very wide rim, so it might not be that easy to grip for smaller hands. It will be released in Star and Pro driver plastic, so they should hold up for a while. Release date is not set, but probably some time in January.

I am not sure right now. Either it was an over sight when we put the numbers on or we made the Star discs the signiture discs. Either way, Kenny is still the TeeBird guy, as well as the KCAviar, KC Roc, one of the Wraiths, and I believe one other. Kenny is definitely worth his endorsement money, and always has been.

Apparently we screwed up on the Champion TeeBird and the Champion Firebird when we made new dies with numbers. We got the Champion Eagle, KC Roc, and KC Aviar right. We have yet to go to a new die on the Star Wraith, which is also an endorsement disc.

Apparently we screwed up on the Champion TeeBird and the Champion Firebird when we made new dies with numbers. We got the Champion Eagle, KC Roc, and KC Aviar right. We have yet to go to a new die on the Star Wraith, which is also an endorsement disc.

Really? I remember before No.12 how KCs name was no longer on Rocs and Aviars. Funny how this happens.

It's not always easy to schedule KC to fly to California and scribe his name in each new or revised mold. :)

It's not always easy to schedule KC to fly to California and scribe his name in each new or revised mold. :)

Its fine with me! As a collector of Innova discs, these will have a place just like the pre 12x stuff. I dont doubt Innovas commitments to KC, and vice versa.

Dave, any chance some of the older KC stuff will make a comebck in some of the older plastics? You have talked before about a site with older molds. Any chance they could also feature older plastic bases? Like say, 10x Banshees or Whippets in the more grippy, easier to season SE plastic?

Its fine with me! As a collector of Innova discs, these will have a place just like the pre 12x stuff. I dont doubt Innovas commitments to KC, and vice versa.

Dave, any chance some of the older KC stuff will make a comebck in some of the older plastics? You have talked before about a site with older molds. Any chance they could also feature older plastic bases? Like say, 10x Banshees or Whippets in the more grippy, easier to season SE plastic?


We can make older molds, but the plastics we used aren't available any more. I was talking about discontinued molds and specific plastic types, such as Champion that we may have discontinued.

Examples might be Scorpions, Baracudas, Condors for molds, and plastic types like Champion Gazelles, for instance.

Have you tried to run Zephyrs and Jaguars in R-Pro?

Have you tried to run Zephyrs and Jaguars in R-Pro?

No. Why do you ask?

The recent Zephyrs sure seem more like R-Pro than DX. They're more flexible than older versions before the new Super Class stamp was on them.

The recent Zephyrs sure seem more like R-Pro than DX. They're more flexible than older versions before the new Super Class stamp was on them.

It might have been the weighting material which was more rubbery than usual at the time when ran those. True R-Pro Zephys would be difficult to throw as they would bend in your hand. Almost all DX models have some amount of rubberizing material in them, but R-Pro has a lot.

The newer Zephyr version is a little too flexy to use as a roller in comparison to the older plastic. If future runs had some portion that was not as rubbery it would keep some 'rollables' in the mix.

We can make older molds, but the plastics we used aren't available any more. I was talking about discontinued molds and specific plastic types, such as Champion that we may have discontinued.

Examples might be Scorpions, Baracudas, Condors for molds, and plastic types like Champion Gazelles, for instance.

Awesome. I love the idea, one of my first discs was a Scorpion. So you dont think that Whippets and Banshees in the "Pro"- type of plastic will happen?

The newer Zephyr version is a little too flexy to use as a roller in comparison to the older plastic. If future runs had some portion that was not as rubbery it would keep some 'rollables' in the mix.


Yeah, not a huge fan of abuse either. They dont tear up really, but I have one thats about 6 ways from warped. One good tree and they are done.

Awesome. I love the idea, one of my first discs was a Scorpion. So you dont think that Whippets and Banshees in the "Pro"- type of plastic will happen?

Probably not the KC Pro Whippet that we had before, but regular driver Pro could happen, depending on demand. Keep in mind, most of this stuff is probably a year away from happening.

We can make older molds, but the plastics we used aren't available any more. I was talking about discontinued molds and specific plastic types, such as Champion that we may have discontinued.

Examples might be Scorpions, Baracudas, Condors for molds, and plastic types like Champion Gazelles, for instance.

I vote Champion Condor!!!!

hey Dave-
it seems as some pro leos and pro valks (as well as some newer dx rocs) are coming out with a more slanted inner rim. is this intentional or an effect of the latest molding processes? some seem to like it, I personally do not.
just curious-
thanks

hey Dave-
it seems as some pro leos and pro valks (as well as some newer dx rocs) are coming out with a more slanted inner rim. is this intentional or an effect of the latest molding processes? some seem to like it, I personally do not.
just curious-
thanks

Not intentional, unless the Roc was a + version. I don't think we ran DX Roc + though. If so, it would say Rancho and be closer to the rim than the regular Rancho engraving.

Not intentional, unless the Roc was a + version. I don't think we ran DX Roc + though. If so, it would say Rancho and be closer to the rim than the regular Rancho engraving.

Hero released a DX Roc+ in Japan weights.

http://www.herodiscusa.com/dx-rancho-roc-japan-open-2010-logo.html

Probably not the KC Pro Whippet that we had before, but regular driver Pro could happen, depending on demand. Keep in mind, most of this stuff is probably a year away from happening.

How about Champion Whippets. The old KCs would beat up to quick and the Whippet became like a slow Firebird. The Champs just stay overstable and don't fly flat unless you gave it some OAT

It might be, but it won't go farther that a Katana downwind. It's not a glider, just a wind penetrator. Maybe upwind and definitely better control at lower weights.

Would you say it would be capable of replacing my Destroyer for headwind drives?

Also, from an older post about "domey" Destroyers, I find both my Star & Pro models that are domey, to FEED on headwinds, and fly straight and far.

Being I come from a Frisbee background, and just started playing DG, I absolutely HATED the way the Roc felt in my hand. Very foreign.
The Roc Plus however, i LOVE! Thanks!

Finally, Star Katana's have never felt like Star plastic to me. They have the hard slick plastic characteristics of Pro. But the Echo Star Katana's are wonderful. I'm glad to see you finally doing a regular run. Can't wait to fling an Echo Roadrunner as well. Don't forget the BEAST!!

Oh yeah, one more thing. You know me & my Zephyr's.
Can Zeph's be run using "recycled" plastic. Echo Zeph's?

Thanks -

.

Originally Posted by mf100forever
Have you tried to run Zephyrs and Jaguars in R-Pro?

No. Why do you ask?

Just curious! Do you think it would work out?

How about Champion Whippets. The old KCs would beat up to quick and the Whippet became like a slow Firebird. The Champs just stay overstable and don't fly flat unless you gave it some OAT

This will happen at some point.

Would you say it would be capable of replacing my Destroyer for headwind drives?

.

This is referenced, I believe, to a Nov 4 post about the XB. That was discontinued, in favor of the Vulcan. The Vulcan is definitely not a headwind driver.

Originally Posted by mf100forever
Have you tried to run Zephyrs and Jaguars in R-Pro?



Just curious! Do you think it would work out?

No, the big discs would have too much flex.

Any Champ Mako in regular run soon?
And, Would you please make glow ch teebird with standard inside rim-angle?

Glow Champ Gators would be very well received. Is there any chance that they could be produced in the future?

I know that there is a huge market for Gators out there. The more stable(and flatter) the better.

Dave or Any one in the know,
I was looking at the Avery Destroyers at my local shop. All of the Heavy 172-175 had a dome like regular Stamp Star Ds and all the Light weights 165-168-9 where all flat and more grippy very different feeling star Plastic.
Why is this? I want a heavy grippier one but they where all light weight.

Hey Dave,

What king of flight numbers would you say the XB has and what would you compare it closest to in the current line? More importantly, since the XB itself wasn't what you were ultimately looking for, are you planning on releasing something similar to it that will be PDGA approved in the near future? Or is this what the Vulcan is going to be??

Any Champ Mako in regular run soon?
And, Would you please make glow ch teebird with standard inside rim-angle?

Yes and Yes.

Glow Champ Gators would be very well received. Is there any chance that they could be produced in the future?

I know that there is a huge market for Gators out there. The more stable(and flatter) the better.


Yes, but no schedule yet for those.

Dave or Any one in the know,
I was looking at the Avery Destroyers at my local shop. All of the Heavy 172-175 had a dome like regular Stamp Star Ds and all the Light weights 165-168-9 where all flat and more grippy very different feeling star Plastic.
Why is this? I want a heavy grippier one but they where all light weight.

Could be several reasons, but the most likely would be a change of plastics to get more or less weight. Another reason could be when they were produced. We could have a different batch of the same plastic. Less likely when different weights are involved.

Hey Dave,

What king of flight numbers would you say the XB has and what would you compare it closest to in the current line? More importantly, since the XB itself wasn't what you were ultimately looking for, are you planning on releasing something similar to it that will be PDGA approved in the near future? Or is this what the Vulcan is going to be??

The Vulcan is what the XB turned into. The main problem with the XB was that it had speed without much glide. It worked well for accuracy in lighter weights but really wasn't a good fit for those who wanted lighter weights. They usually want glide too. The only market it would have fit well was Japan Pro Class.

also looking for flat regular-run champ gators, have been for years it seems. Glow cfr would be nice....

The Vulcan is what the XB turned into. The main problem with the XB was that it had speed without much glide. It worked well for accuracy in lighter weights but really wasn't a good fit for those who wanted lighter weights. They usually want glide too. The only market it would have fit well was Japan Pro Class.

Will the Vulcan have a similar flight plate ridge design to the XB? Could you give your flight rating #'s for both the XB and Vulcan please?

Thanks, Mike

Will the Vulcan have a similar flight plate ridge design to the XB? Could you give your flight rating #'s for both the XB and Vulcan please?

Thanks, Mike

The Vulcan doesn't have the same flight plate feature.

They have similar numbers: both are speed 13, Vulcan has a 5 glide compared to XB at 3. High speed turn for the XB is -2 or -3, the Vulcan is -3 to -4, low speed fade is about 2 for either.

You can buy some proto XB's at www.herodiscusa.com Very few produced and they're going fast.

The Vulcan doesn't have the same flight plate feature.

They have similar numbers: both are speed 13, Vulcan has a 5 glide compared to XB at 3. High speed turn for the XB is -2 or -3, the Vulcan is -3 to -4, low speed fade is about 2 for either.

Thanks Dave. Once again, great information.

Hey Dave,

I was wondering if you think there could be a new disc on the horizon that fits between a Teebird and a Banshee. Maybe a Banshee-L or something? Just would like something with a 1.7cm rim thickness and a touch more stable than a Teebird.

Hey Dave,

I was wondering if you think there could be a new disc on the horizon that fits between a Teebird and a Banshee. Maybe a Banshee-L or something? Just would like something with a 1.7cm rim thickness and a touch more stable than a Teebird.

Eagle

Eagle

I'm not sure right now, but I think that may have been the Bomb. I believe it might have been a Banshee with an L stripper. However, I am not sure it was more stable than a TeeBird. We don't have any current plans to make this disc, but we might in the future.

I'm not sure right now, but I think that may have been the Bomb. I believe it might have been a Banshee with an L stripper. However, I am not sure it was more stable than a TeeBird. We don't have any current plans to make this disc, but we might in the future.

That would be awesome! A fairway driver for power players that won't flip up, but also not stall out very soon either. Something that would hold a hyzer line for power players all the way to the ground with good glide.

That would be awesome! A fairway driver for power players that won't flip up, but also not stall out very soon either. Something that would hold a hyzer line for power players all the way to the ground with good glide.


I believe the Millennium EXP was made in this configuration. The Bomb had the Banshee L configuration, but might have had a slightly smaller rim like the Cheetah size.

And the EXP in the 1.7 run is CE plastic. They are found pretty easily and cheaply.

I believe the Millennium EXP was made in this configuration. The Bomb had the Banshee L configuration, but might have had a slightly smaller rim like the Cheetah size.

Speaking of EXPs, I have some that are blank with a flat wing, not the typical Banshee/EXP are these what your talking about Dave? Were those ever released?

My only question is, why don't you guys use the refractive, oil slick, glitter stamps as much as you guys used to? You used to be able to get all kinds of discs with cool textured hot stamps. Anymore, it just seems like they are all 1-color. Are the other foils that much more expensive, or is the supply dwindling? Just curious because we used to get all kinds of cool stamps when we ordered our discs for events, now everything we get it 1-color. I miss the oil slick stamps, glitter stamps, etc. I had to specifically ask for the refractive stamps on an order I placed this year. Just curious? Guess I'm still stuck in the 90's.

Also....still waiting for some old mold hammers :)

Speaking of EXPs, I have some that are blank with a flat wing, not the typical Banshee/EXP are these what your talking about Dave? Were those ever released?

The EXP did have a relatively flat wing. The Banshee has the concavity.

My only question is, why don't you guys use the refractive, oil slick, glitter stamps as much as you guys used to? You used to be able to get all kinds of discs with cool textured hot stamps. Anymore, it just seems like they are all 1-color. Are the other foils that much more expensive, or is the supply dwindling? Just curious because we used to get all kinds of cool stamps when we ordered our discs for events, now everything we get it 1-color. I miss the oil slick stamps, glitter stamps, etc. I had to specifically ask for the refractive stamps on an order I placed this year. Just curious? Guess I'm still stuck in the 90's.

Also....still waiting for some old mold hammers :)

I think that stuff was somewhat problematic for rejects.

Hey Dave,
Are you going to be running the 11x champ firebird mold again anytime soon?

Hey Dave,
Are you going to be running the 11x champ firebird mold again anytime soon?

https://www.discgolfvalues.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=337

The Glows that are out now are close to an 11X too.

It's not the mold it's the plastic they get.

theres a new core on the new glow fbs. i compared it to the old 11x's . while the mold hasnt changed per say,i agree that its the plastic. btw,the asia open glow fbs are beefy. more so than an 11x.

The EXP did have a relatively flat wing. The Banshee has the concavity.


I mean flat. Like a TL. Im not sure they were released or not.

this might be in this extensive thread already but here goes... I just bought 2 used 11X KC Champion Teebirds (both w/ CA not CAL lettering) but they are definitely different discs. I'm assuming one is a T mold and one is a TL mold? Basically just wondering the differences in all the 11X Teebirds..?

That could be a thread in itself.

this might be in this extensive thread already but here goes... I just bought 2 used 11X KC Champion Teebirds (both w/ CA not CAL lettering) but they are definitely different discs. I'm assuming one is a T mold and one is a TL mold? Basically just wondering the differences in all the 11X Teebirds..?

I have noticed this, I have a few of these myself. There is also the KC pro stamped 11x teebirds as well. In order of stability, from most stable to least it seems to go KC Pro 11x, CAL 11x, and then CA 11x.

Dave,

Can you tell us more about the edge?

I'm sure the one that looks like a TL rim is less stable but the other one is flat with a concave rim not flat like the other... Just wondering if I'm correct in assuming the one is actually a TL mold rim?

Good morning, Dave.

I have a few old Eagles that I acquired a few years back as SE plastic. Two out of the three have SE written on the back, and the plastic seems to have more of a Pro/Star sheen to them. Is there a way to verify that they are SE? I have attached (hopefully) pics of the front and back of one of the discs in question.

Thank you for your time,
Pete

Dave,

Can you tell us more about the edge?

The Edge is sort of like a cross between an XD and a Stingray. In heavier weights, it is useful for medium range turn over shots that need almost no return. It is useful for rolling up to 400 ft. It is a straight putter and approach with low glide and very little low speed fade. At lighter EDGE weights, (130 gms), it has fair glide and is an easy disc to throw for younger players with less skills and smaller hands.

Good morning, Dave.

I have a few old Eagles that I acquired a few years back as SE plastic. Two out of the three have SE written on the back, and the plastic seems to have more of a Pro/Star sheen to them. Is there a way to verify that they are SE? I have attached (hopefully) pics of the front and back of one of the discs in question.

Thank you for your time,
Pete

Sorry, I don't know how you can verify.

I recently acquired a Champion Teebird L and a Champion Teebird Plus. What's the difference?

I recently acquired a Champion Teebird L and a Champion Teebird Plus. What's the difference?

The TL is a relatively straight flyer with a little high speed turn that has been around for many years. The Tee + is relatively new and flies just like a regular TeeBird, but feels a little beefier in the hand, and looks a little better in Champion as we don't have to add as much weighting agent to make it 175 gms.

I heard a rumor that the TeeRex was being discontinued. Is there any truth to this?

I heard a rumor that the TeeRex was being discontinued. Is there any truth to this?

No.

Dave,
What is your philosophy regarding carrying a variety of different discs for various shots versus carrying copies of certain discs in varying degrees of plastic and beatness? I find that my bag has quite a wide variety of discs, with relatively few copies among them. I guess that I'm more comfortable knowing that I don't have to season a disc "just right". Therefore I have adapted my selection to accomadate this. I realize golf is more mental than physical, and what makes you comfortable, go with. Just was curious about your thoughts.
BTW, the ONE IRREPLACABLE disc in my quiver is the CE Aviar/1st run Q Omega. The one do-anything disc that garnered me my first two tourney aces, almost three years apart to the day, with the SAME DISC!!!

Dave,
What is your philosophy regarding carrying a variety of different discs for various shots versus carrying copies of certain discs in varying degrees of plastic and beatness? I find that my bag has quite a wide variety of discs, with relatively few copies among them. I guess that I'm more comfortable knowing that I don't have to season a disc "just right". Therefore I have adapted my selection to accomadate this. I realize golf is more mental than physical, and what makes you comfortable, go with. Just was curious about your thoughts.
BTW, the ONE IRREPLACABLE disc in my quiver is the CE Aviar/1st run Q Omega. The one do-anything disc that garnered me my first two tourney aces, almost three years apart to the day, with the SAME DISC!!!

I don't think one philosophy is better than the other. I know Kenny won several World's with Aviars, Rocs, and Vipers in various stages of beatness, but after that, his selection grew somewhat for subsequent championships. If I had to pick a few discs to follow this philosophy now, I guess it would include the Aviar, Roc, TeeBird, and Destroyer. However, courses are longer and more varied now, than they were 10 years ago, competition is broader than it used to be and every weapon you can use to your advantage helps to separate you from the crowd. None of the aforementioned discs could get you a two on hole two of the Winthrop Gold course, but a driver that could, might separate you from the competition. Also, a driver that could fight the wind like it wasn't there could prove very useful at times. An excellent overhead disc might win a stroke here and there. A disc for the woods that had a slow turn and no return could prove useful, and so forth.

Dave,
What is your philosophy regarding carrying a variety of different discs for various shots versus carrying copies of certain discs in varying degrees of plastic and beatness? I find that my bag has quite a wide variety of discs, with relatively few copies among them. I guess that I'm more comfortable knowing that I don't have to season a disc "just right". Therefore I have adapted my selection to accomadate this. I realize golf is more mental than physical, and what makes you comfortable, go with. Just was curious about your thoughts.
BTW, the ONE IRREPLACABLE disc in my quiver is the CE Aviar/1st run Q Omega. The one do-anything disc that garnered me my first two tourney aces, almost three years apart to the day, with the SAME DISC!!!

IMO use the right tool for the job, but having multiple tools that do the same thing is wasted space.
My Bag consists of Avair(2-3),Roc(4-5),Whippet,Leopard(2),Valkyrie(1-2),Eagle(4-My go to),Firebird(1),Destroyer(3),Teerex(depending on course and wind),Nuke(1)

Dave,
any word with any courses going into Mojave or Devour or anywhere else in Socal?

Dave,
any word with any courses going into Mojave or Devour or anywhere else in Socal?

I was asked to lay out a preliminary course for Glen Helen, in Devore at the beginning of November. I mapped it and sent it in, but I haven't heard back since then. Mojave was put on the back burner when Pelican lake flooded out.

Dave,
What is your philosophy regarding carrying a variety of different discs for various shots versus carrying copies of certain discs in varying degrees of plastic and beatness? I find that my bag has quite a wide variety of discs, with relatively few copies among them. I guess that I'm more comfortable knowing that I don't have to season a disc "just right". Therefore I have adapted my selection to accomadate this. I realize golf is more mental than physical, and what makes you comfortable, go with...
I agree with your thinking on new plastic. I own a duplicate of almost every disc I like. I only carry the duplicates in 3 conditions: 1) For serious practice rounds if I throw a Roc approach poorly, I can try again with the same disc. 2) For tournaments I carry every disc I own in case I lose one. This gives me confidence of not worrying about losing a disc. Yes, I have a huge tournament bag. 3) I bring it to doubles, and if I get picked to play Kali, I bring the duplicates so I can take the second shot with the same disc, sometimes.

Thank you, Dave and Innova, for the nice Christmas disc card and calendar. Hope you get all of your holiday wishes to come true.
HNY
KL

Hi Dave

I just noticed in another thread, Chuck posted that the Innova Wedge has recently been approved.

I saw a lot of great info about the Wahoo, Vulcan and experimental XB in this thread. Can you tell us a little about the Wedge?

Thanks in Advance, and Happy Holidays

Hi Dave

I just noticed in another thread, Chuck posted that the Innova Wedge has recently been approved.

I saw a lot of great info about the Wahoo, Vulcan and experimental XB in this thread. Can you tell us a little about the Wedge?

Thanks in Advance, and Happy Holidays

The Wedge is a Putt & Approach that is structurally close to a cross between a Stingray and an XD. It is a straight putter much like the Aviar, but it is a little faster and a heavier flyer in higher weights. Thrown up to about 150 ft it is very straight. Thrown up to 300ft, it has a significant turn. It is a very low profile putter, that still flies like a putter. At higher speeds it has a nice slow turn and very little return or fade. It also makes a very good mid range roller. In lighter weights, (130-140gms), it flies like a much heavier disc, but is easier to throw for younger players.

.
I recently lost my 162g Star Katana. I saw a 159g Star Katana that was for the Asia Open. I would really like to find Star Katanas in 159g. Could you possibly assist me? Do you ever have 159g ones in your domestic stock? What is the lightest Star Katana that can be/or is being produced? Do you keep track of details such as numbers of discs produced / shipped in each weight / model? Thank you for your time - Harry
.

Merry Christmas Dave!

The opposition you encountered back in the day to a move away from lids seems ridiculous today -- with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, that opposition was just an obstacle that the Eagle/Aero had to clear. Nice huck!

Thank you for 27+ years of Innova golf discs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...The Tee + ...looks a little better in Champion as we don't have to add as much weighting agent to make it 175 gms.

I have no idea how "weights" are achieved in certain instances. I'm intrigued. "Weighting Agent?" I'm sure the amount varies between Champion, Star, Etc.

So, what weight do discs generally come out at?
Meaning no or hardly any weighting agent.
Do all discs have some amount of "agent"?
Is the agent spread uniformly across the disc's plastic?
Does this "agent" affect the set-up of discs or make them harder of softer?
So many questions.
.