Hey Dave, does a dome really make a disc more stable? Or does it have something to do with the wing? I prefer flat discs because they feel better in my hand and don't seem to get pushed around in the wind as much. But I have heard a lot of people say that domes make discs stable, but have not noticed it myself. thanks!

The dome doesn't have much to do with high speed stability, but does help with low speed stability. The position of the wing has much more to do with hss. That being said, cooling can have a lot to do with both of these and one can influence the other with respect to final shape.

The confounding variable is the shrink rate of the flight plate vs the shrink rate of the rim vis a vis different plastic. Flat discs are made when the rim shrinks relatively less or the plate shrinks relatively more. Flat discs tend to shrink with nose up attitudes on the wind. Domey tend to shrink with nose down, but as we have seen with the longer wing discs, that doesn't hold true any more.

Dave,

Sorry if this was asked, I couldn't find it... All of thee 12x KC Aviars I have, have a larger diameter then my 10x and 11x Aviars. Did the mold change?

M

Hi Dave-
I think I asked this before, but do you have a timeframe for regular pro bosses? should they be able to get down to 167 or so?
thanks

Dave,

Sorry if this was asked, I couldn't find it... All of thee 12x KC Aviars I have, have a larger diameter then my 10x and 11x Aviars. Did the mold change?

M

I am not sure exactly when we went to the blunter nosed Aviar Driver mold, but that would be the time when it would have changed. However, the diameter didn't change, just the nose shape.

Dave,

Sorry if this was asked, I couldn't find it... All of thee 12x KC Aviars I have, have a larger diameter then my 10x and 11x Aviars. Did the mold change?

M

If the mold changed, the "new" Aviar would have to be resubmitted to Tech Standards. Check the document to see if it shows those discs as being different.

More likely is that they were made from different plastic, with different shrink rates.

Hi Dave-
I think I asked this before, but do you have a timeframe for regular pro bosses? should they be able to get down to 167 or so?
thanks

We have not scheduled regular Pro Bosses as yet as we don't have time, and won't for at least two months. However, there is a possibility that we could do a short run for something like the Worlds before that. At this time, regular Pro would only be able to get down to around 172gms. Starlight Bosses are the only Bosses of the urethane type to get down to 167gms.

We are testing a new material type that may allow Pro Bosses to get down to 170 gms, but not much lower than that.

I really wish you all would us the term "stable" to indicate a super straight flight. When you all say more stable, you mean more "overstable", but no one sems to like the word.
A Frisbee flies flat , that is "stable". A Firebird is "overstable" Some time it is hard to understand just what everyone really means. A Roadrunner and SW are "Understable" , not less stable. Please lets' get the terminology correct so everyone understands.

I really wish you all would us the term "stable" to indicate a super straight flight. When you all say more stable, you mean more "overstable", but no one sems to like the word.
A Frisbee flies flat , that is "stable". A Firebird is "overstable" Some time it is hard to understand just what everyone really means. A Roadrunner and SW are "Understable" , not less stable. Please lets' get the terminology correct so everyone understands.


We need to develope a different language as we can't be correct using aerodynamic language meant for a wing, referring to disc flight. Aerodynamics has stable vs unstable. Those are insufficient for disc flight description. We have high speed and low speed descriptions of instability that don't really work.

Stable for high speed works fine, but unstable would refer to any non stable flight including over stable, a term we coined. (as a side note, imo, less stable or understable are just fine). The problem is really with the unstable type we describe as over stable.

It gets a little more off from wing aerodynamics when we describe the low speed instability as over stable. This is more like a combination of stall and over stability. The term "fade" is sometimes used here.

I do agree that over stability, in lieu of a better term, does help to differentiate from stability meaning straight and stable. This would help to differentiate between discs that are stable at certain speeds, (eg. Roadrunners, Sidewinders, etc) and discs that are stable at all speeds except stall (fade) speeds, (TeeBirds, Rocs, Aviars, Cros) etc.

I never really liked "fade" as it conflicts with the term fade used in ball golf. I've used crash, dive, or stall to describe that phenomenon to my students as it seems to be more in accordance with my conception of the stalling effect. Nevetheless, we do differentiate different low speed stalling with the term fade as we haven't as yet come up with a more accepted term.

I just picked up 2 S and 2 P PD's and I must say that these ROCK!!! All the ones I got were the new run with the Freak logo.

How do the domier S Freak ones compare to the flatter 1st run non-freak PDs?

Thanks Dave!

I just picked up 2 S and 2 P PD's and I must say that these ROCK!!! All the ones I got were the new run with the Freak logo.

How do the domier S Freak ones compare to the flatter 1st run non-freak PDs?

Thanks Dave!

I only have much experience with the S type. The S-type are both similar. The both fly like a faster slightly more overstable TeeBird. The new type might be slightly better for sidearm.

Will Discmania discs get ran in a champion-type plastic?

I would love a Champ-type PD. I'd also like to echo dave's feelings with the PD. The S has a lot of resistance to turn while flying pretty straight with a predictable fade. The P is a thing of beauty once it gets beat in a little; it flips up a tiny amount and really locks into a straight path. This disc is one of the most controllable distance discs I've thrown in a while.

Are there plans to run the CD in the Pro plastic?

That's waht I was thinking with the PD. A version of it with a little extra beef in it.

I would love a Champ-type PD. I'd also like to echo dave's feelings with the PD. The S has a lot of resistance to turn while flying pretty straight with a predictable fade. The P is a thing of beauty once it gets beat in a little; it flips up a tiny amount and really locks into a straight path. This disc is one of the most controllable distance discs I've thrown in a while.

Are there plans to run the CD in the Pro plastic?


We have no plans to run any Discmania in Champion plastic. Discmania has a new line called the Performance line that is similar to our Driver Pro. The PD, CD, and DD have been made and are available. The CD has not been stamped yet.

Sorry if I confused anyone with my previous answer about Discmania.

Dave,

The owner of the Play it Again Sporsts said that when he tried to order KC Aviars that someone at Innova told him that this would be his last chance to get them because KC plastic was going to be discontinues. I asked if he meant JK, as this would make sense with R-Pro out now, and he said that JK would still be ran and its KC being discontinued.

I was just wondering about the truth to this as the KC Aviar seems to be the putter amoung pros.

Dave,

The owner of the Play it Again Sporsts said that when he tried to order KC Aviars that someone at Innova told him that this would be his last chance to get them because KC plastic was going to be discontinues. I asked if he meant JK, as this would make sense with R-Pro out now, and he said that JK would still be ran and its KC being discontinued.

I was just wondering about the truth to this as the KC Aviar seems to be the putter amoung pros.


everything i have heard states that kc pro aviars will be discontinued alon with the roc, and whippet that are made in those plastics.

everything i have heard states that kc pro aviars will be discontinued alon with the roc, and whippet that are made in those plastics.

Okay the aviar I can deal with the Whippet to but discontinuing the KC PRO ROC WTF???
Dave say it isn't so. WHy would Innova do this. They have a good line going and then drop it dosen't make sense to me. They always seem to cut out the good stuff. IMO the R-Pro stuff is like cheap DX plastic.

I really hope this is not true!

Dave,

The owner of the Play it Again Sporsts said that when he tried to order KC Aviars that someone at Innova told him that this would be his last chance to get them because KC plastic was going to be discontinues. I asked if he meant JK, as this would make sense with R-Pro out now, and he said that JK would still be ran and its KC being discontinued.

I was just wondering about the truth to this as the KC Aviar seems to be the putter amoung pros.

Not true for the KC Aviar and KC Roc. This might have been true two years ago when the material was supposed to be discontinued, but that changed and we have a ready supply. We have discontinued the KC Whippet and I believe there was one other model too. However the KC Aviar and KC Roc will continue as long as we can get the material.

Dave,

I recently started putting more X versions into my bag (i.e. Whippet-x and Eagle-x.) My question is how many X versions of discs are still in production? I know the Whippet-X and Eagle-X I just picked up from places with recent orders. I know I've heard of people talk about Firebird-X's and Max-X's but what still currently exists for ordering and are they available in all the same plastics as the regular mold usually? (i.e. Eagle-Star, Champ, Glow, DX)

We have no plans to run any Discmania in Champion plastic. Discmania has a new line called the Performance line that is similar to our Driver Pro. The PD, CD, and DD have been made and are available. The CD has not been stamped yet.

Thanks for the info about the CD. I really found a lot of use out of those 2 drivers, and hope your partnership with Discmania stays successful.

Dave,

I recently started putting more X versions into my bag (i.e. Whippet-x and Eagle-x.) My question is how many X versions of discs are still in production? I know the Whippet-X and Eagle-X I just picked up from places with recent orders. I know I've heard of people talk about Firebird-X's and Max-X's but what still currently exists for ordering and are they available in all the same plastics as the regular mold usually? (i.e. Eagle-Star, Champ, Glow, DX)


As far as non CFR discs, if a disc has a "L" model (EL, TL, FL, SL), then there's a corresponding "X" model (Eagle, Teebird, Firebird, Starfire). In general, L molds have a flat wing shape, and X molds have a concave wing shape.

Dave,

I recently started putting more X versions into my bag (i.e. Whippet-x and Eagle-x.) My question is how many X versions of discs are still in production? I know the Whippet-X and Eagle-X I just picked up from places with recent orders. I know I've heard of people talk about Firebird-X's and Max-X's but what still currently exists for ordering and are they available in all the same plastics as the regular mold usually? (i.e. Eagle-Star, Champ, Glow, DX)

Some of the discs come in X versions already although in the past there were some non X versions. Eagles, Firebirds, and Monsters are only made in X versions at this point. Whippet-X is only currently produced as such no matter what material it is made of. Max only comes in one version although there was an X version at one time. TeeRex now only comes in the more stable version, but used to say TeeRex X. Sometimes we make more stable versions of Destroyers, Boss, Orc, etc., but we refer to those as enhanced stability. We do have more over stable discs such as Banshees and XCalibers too.

So is the current Teerex the same version as the first run big star stamps?

Are the Champion Glo Cobras as domey as the Champion Glo Whippet-Xs? Thanks.

Also, how do you get your own X-Out stamp? And also, is this the reason Ive only been able to get Pro Wraith x outs for the last month from the East Coast? Id have to guess you must have alot of x-outs to get a custom x out stamp. Any insight here Dave?

So is the current Teerex the same version as the first run big star stamps?

No the current Teerex went through several changes to come back close to the original, but it is slightly more stable.

Are the Champion Glo Cobras as domey as the Champion Glo Whippet-Xs? Thanks.

Also, how do you get your own X-Out stamp? And also, is this the reason Ive only been able to get Pro Wraith x outs for the last month from the East Coast? Id have to guess you must have alot of x-outs to get a custom x out stamp. Any insight here Dave?

The C Glo Cobras are fairly domey.

I am not sure what the policy is regarding X out stamps. I don't know why you can't get more X-outs. We have plently and we probably always will given the reject rate of molding. Some models are more available than others. We are currently grinding up over 20,000 x-parts that we have accumulated over several years. That won't hurt the availability as we continue to make them.

Dave,

Any chance of a star Gazelle coming out?? or champ

Are there any new Innova or Discmania discs in the works?

Thank You.

Dave,

Any chance of a star Gazelle coming out?? or champ

Not in our regular line. Possibly for tournaments at some point.

Are there any new Innova or Discmania discs in the works?

No new molds at this time. Possibly some materials in certain molds if they work out. Things like lighter weight Champion Destroyers. We'll know about this in about two weeks.

Not in our regular line. Possibly for tournaments at some point.

I would also love to see the release of a star gazelle. If not though is there any chance of a new fairway driver with similar speed and stability ratings? 6,4,0,3 would be a great fairway driver, basically a faster roc...

I would also love to see the release of a star gazelle. If not though is there any chance of a new fairway driver with similar speed and stability ratings? 6,4,0,3 would be a great fairway driver, basically a faster roc...
Discmania GM (the artist formerly known as the Innova Gremlin) might suit you. 6,5,0,2 if I'm not mistaken.

Ray is very right about the Gremlin/GM.

Discmania GM (the artist formerly known as the Innova Gremlin) might suit you. 6,5,0,2 if I'm not mistaken.


i love gremlins but they're 5, 3, 0, 2 check it out...

http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/legacy/gremlin.html

I would also love to see the release of a star gazelle. If not though is there any chance of a new fairway driver with similar speed and stability ratings? 6,4,0,3 would be a great fairway driver, basically a faster roc...

A friend of mine was looking for the same thing I saw throw a Eagle or Teebird slower or learn how to get the Roc out further lessen the amount of molds in the bag. Use a fan grip on the fairway drivers to slow em down and a Power Grip plus height on the mids. JMO

Try a leopard.

Try a leopard.

A JLS would be a little closer.

Dave,
Whats up with the Pro Boss. Not the R pro boss. Are they up for production for the public?
Second, I heard a rumor that the new flat top Roc mold was lost is this true?
Thanks from NC,
Drew Tuck

Dave,
Whats up with the Pro Boss. Not the R pro boss. Are they up for production for the public?
Second, I heard a rumor that the new flat top Roc mold was lost is this true?
Thanks from NC,
Drew Tuck

We will run the Pro Boss at some point, but we can't get it into the schedule right now.

There is no flat top Roc mold, but you may be talking about the East Coast office making Full Color discs that have flat tops. A variation of that process is still available from them.

thanks

We will run the Pro Boss at some point, but we can't get it into the schedule right now.

There is no flat top Roc mold, but you may be talking about the East Coast office making Full Color discs that have flat tops. A variation of that process is still available from them.

King MasheD Rocs. They are available through DGU: www.discgolfunited.com

King MasheD Rocs. They are available through DGU: www.discgolfunited.com

We still have a few left...

http://discgolfclub.org/proshop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_15

Hi Dave...quick question...

Innova's website lists R-Pro Bosses going as light as 135 grams. Well I ordered one of the ultra lites from Hero Discs and it is very clearly marked 130 BO-R. I had a few other people verify for me.

Are they supposed to go down to 130? I got it in the magenta color if that makes a difference.

Oh and by the way, having a transparent R-Pro disc looks amazing. It looks like Champion plastic but it's R-Pro. You can see little specs of rubber spread all through the plastic. I almost don't even want to throw the disc...

Edit: I had to share a picture...

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9666/rproboss.th.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/rproboss.jpg/)

Hi Dave...quick question...

Innova's website lists R-Pro Bosses going as light as 135 grams. Well I ordered one of the ultra lites from Hero Discs and it is very clearly marked 130 BO-R. I had a few other people verify for me.

Are they supposed to go down to 130? I got it in the magenta color if that makes a difference.

Oh and by the way, having a transparent R-Pro disc looks amazing. It looks like Champion plastic but it's R-Pro. You can see little specs of rubber spread all through the plastic. I almost don't even want to throw the disc...

Edit: I had to share a picture...

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9666/rproboss.th.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/rproboss.jpg/)

Actually I didn't know they could go down lower than 135gms. Thanks for the heads up.

Hi, I've seen some test plastic destroyers on ebay and he claimed there was only 60 produced. He also claimed the plastic is like ce with flashing. Is this champion or r pro? The last one on ebay sold for $80 tonight.

Hi, I've seen some test plastic destroyers on ebay and he claimed there was only 60 produced. He also claimed the plastic is like ce with flashing. Is this champion or r pro? The last one on ebay sold for $80 tonight.

I don't remember running any R-Pro Destroyers, test or not. We did do a test run of enhanced stability C-Destroyers. We have done a test of Starlight Destroyers too, but I don't think these were sold. I don't know anything about the ebay discs specifically.

Here is a pic from the listing, all of discs I've seen looked the same from this run.

Here is a pic from the listing, all of discs I've seen looked the same from this run.

This looks like Champion. From this, I would guess it is the enhanced stability batch, but I am not sure.

Dave, the DX Gazelle is no longer listed on the dealer's order form. Has it been discontinued?

Dave, the DX Gazelle is no longer listed on the dealer's order form. Has it been discontinued?

Yes, it has been taken out of regular production. If there continues to be any modest demand, we may put it in tournament fundraising.

Yes, it has been taken out of regular production. If there continues to be any modest demand, we may put it in tournament fundraising.

WOW... sad that it's no longer in regular production, but looking forward to the first time we can put a CFR order in for custom artwork on Star or R-Pro Gazelles...

I don't remember running any R-Pro Destroyers, test or not. We did do a test run of enhanced stability C-Destroyers. We have done a test of Starlight Destroyers too, but I don't think these were sold. I don't know anything about the ebay discs specifically.
From Hero Disc USA:
Flat Top DX Destroyer (Test Plastic): This test plastic resembles stiff R-Pro but has been deemed DX in nature. Designed for the 150 class throwers that prefer their drivers extra stable, trust these discs to hold true line. Less than one box exists.

WOW... sad that it's no longer in regular production, but looking forward to the first time we can put a CFR order in for custom artwork on Star or R-Pro Gazelles...

We still do have some stock in DX Gazelles in 170-172g.

Is the cheetah more popular than the gazelle? Why is it still around?

Is the cheetah more popular than the gazelle? Why is it still around?

The Cheetah has pretty much always been much more popular than the Gazelle.

Cheeta vs. Gazelle hmmm. Believe it or not there are more weak arms playing disc golf than those who throw 400+. An understable driver like the Cheeta is a great first driver. Gazelle....not so much. It's way too overstable for most weanie arms. Result, Cheeta eats Gazelle as usual. Of course I'm biased, my first driver was a Cheeta and I still have it. I never could find a use for a Gazelle.

I have owned an Innova competition bag since they came out......love it and it is still in good condition. However, the insert/ disc separator is warped and the velcro if tearing off the plastic......do you know where I can pickup a replacement???

thanks

I have owned an Innova competition bag since they came out......love it and it is still in good condition. However, the insert/ disc separator is warped and the velcro if tearing off the plastic......do you know where I can pickup a replacement???

thanks

Contact the East Coast Office. They need to know this. I don't know if we stock extra inserts, but see what they can do. This is a good reason to stock them in the future though.

Were there any Star Birdies produced? I remember seeing a limited run of R-Pro and thought(heard?) that there may have been some Star ones as well. Thanks for the help.

https://www.discgolfvalues.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=310&PHPSESSID=11681ecabb93be77f57acd6d92069881

Any idea how other people can get thier own x out stamp done? When I order them I dont get to choose anything, just get what I get. Is this just a West Coast thing? Thanks for your insight.

Were there any Star Birdies produced? I remember seeing a limited run of R-Pro and thought(heard?) that there may have been some Star ones as well. Thanks for the help.

I'm not sure about Star, but there were some driver Pro Birdies made several years ago.

https://www.discgolfvalues.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=310&PHPSESSID=11681ecabb93be77f57acd6d92069881

Any idea how other people can get thier own x out stamp done? When I order them I dont get to choose anything, just get what I get. Is this just a West Coast thing? Thanks for your insight.

I don't really know how they are handled. I do know that the West Coast has the overwhelming majority of the X-parts and when we ship any to the East Coast, they are unsorted. We are in the process of sorting, but that could take a long time. It may be the unsorted nature of the X-parts that makes it difficult to choose specific models and weights. I know there must be some problem as we don't sell very many X-outs.

I don't really know how they are handled. I do know that the West Coast has the overwhelming majority of the X-parts and when we ship any to the East Coast, they are unsorted. We are in the process of sorting, but that could take a long time. It may be the unsorted nature of the X-parts that makes it difficult to choose specific models and weights. I know there must be some problem as we don't sell very many X-outs.

Are the X-outs stamped with the X-out stamp at Innova West or are they left unstamped before being shipped to Innova East?

Dave,

I feel like you would sell more x-out discs if you took the stamp completely off X-outs, keep them clean so that these discs could be bought cheaply for the option of dye's or private hotstamping.

I know that any X-out I get I usually take everything but the "Innova" off and then the disc resembles old SE discs which is kinda neat. If you took the whole stamp off minus the small x that is written in pen then that would save alot of people the hassle of removing that in the first place.

Personally, although I think its neat that DG Values has their own factory second hotstamp, all the Xout and Factory Second hotstamps kinda look trashy. Keep the disc free of any stamp and I believe they will sell better.

Are the X-outs stamped with the X-out stamp at Innova West or are they left unstamped before being shipped to Innova East?

Most of them are not stamped. Some are double stamped, I believe.

Dave we need a new big hyzer disc... as fast as the boss but even more stable! whats in the works? are you making echo boss's yet? And whats up with that test plastic that looks like champion but they say is less durable than dx? you never really commented about that other than it "may" be some stable destroyers...

Dave,

I feel like you would sell more x-out discs if you took the stamp completely off X-outs, keep them clean so that these discs could be bought cheaply for the option of dye's or private hotstamping.

I know that any X-out I get I usually take everything but the "Innova" off and then the disc resembles old SE discs which is kinda neat. If you took the whole stamp off minus the small x that is written in pen then that would save alot of people the hassle of removing that in the first place.

Personally, although I think its neat that DG Values has their own factory second hotstamp, all the Xout and Factory Second hotstamps kinda look trashy. Keep the disc free of any stamp and I believe they will sell better.



Most people dont care about stamps. They care about saving a few bucks or maybe trying something new for cheaper, which is the point. We actually sell more of the double stamped versions than we would blank ones.

I don't really know how they are handled. I do know that the West Coast has the overwhelming majority of the X-parts and when we ship any to the East Coast, they are unsorted. We are in the process of sorting, but that could take a long time. It may be the unsorted nature of the X-parts that makes it difficult to choose specific models and weights. I know there must be some problem as we don't sell very many X-outs.



As Ive said many times before, I guess Im stuck on the wrong coast. I also think one person having something nobody else in the world seems to has is basically unfair. I could understand if Mark had a hot stamper in his basement, but I would bet he doesnt.

Xouts should not be blank as it would be too easy for an unscrupulous seller to pass them off as discs that passed quality control.

should there be a thread for people to correct what others have said so that this could be questions to and answers from dave(or whomever has the correct answer). or a complainer's thread for people to just gripe about the things they have no control over? haha sorry

Dave we need a new big hyzer disc... as fast as the boss but even more stable! whats in the works? are you making echo boss's yet? And whats up with that test plastic that looks like champion but they say is less durable than dx? you never really commented about that other than it "may" be some stable destroyers...

The plastic that "looks like Champion" turned out to be a test of R-Pro. Nothing is currently in the works for a disc more over stable than a Champion Boss, however we could produce three versions of more stable 13 speed discs. We may start to test these later this year. Meanwhile, if you want a more over stable Boss, you might try a 167 g Star Boss. Some are seriously over stable.

Maybe if the X-outs were cheaper since they mostly are sold for $2-$3 less than a disc without molding errors, and I've seen some indented, wavy topped discs that would never fly like a properly molded disc. A stamping error is one thing but a disc that is flat on one half and domey on the other is just wrong. Some money should be better than regrind or the trash.

Dave, Any update on when we might see r pro rhynos?
thanks!

Dave, Any update on when we might see r pro rhynos?
thanks!

Not yet. It's going to be several months, it looks like.

Dave,

What are the chances of ever seeing an R-Pro Max in a lighter weight (150ish)?

Would a light weight Max still be a Max?

Also, is the R-Pro Xcal more overstable than the R-Pro Boss?

Dave,

What are the chances of ever seeing an R-Pro Max in a lighter weight (150ish)?

Would a light weight Max still be a Max?

Also, is the R-Pro Xcal more overstable than the R-Pro Boss?

R-Pro is not particularly good for making a disc over stable. If we could find a blend that kept the stability, we might do it.

Nothing is currently in the works for a disc more over stable than a Champion Boss, however we could produce three versions of more stable 13 speed discs. We may start to test these later this year.

I am confused by this statement...Do you mean that you won't be making a more OVERstable speed 13, but you will be making more stable (straighter, less overstable) speed 13 disc? Or did you just mean that a more overstable disc is not in development yet, but will be? Thanks as always!

maybe 3 different stages of stability within the 3 versions of more stable 13 speed discs? i think i just confused myself more. haha

maybe 3 different stages of stability within the 3 versions of more stable 13 speed discs? i think i just confused myself more. haha

I think this is right. We have two XCaliber types and one Max type in speed 13 that we have not as yet tried. I am not sure if we will ever use them or not. I don't believe candy will be possible in the Max type, but it might in the XCal type. On the other hand, the Max type may be the best for DX or R-Pro, as it is a stronger configuration. This might make a very useful light weight driver.

which is more rare...the nightshift destroyer with bar stamp or the "test plastic" destroyers that came from herodiscusa.com?

which is more rare...the nightshift destroyer with bar stamp or the "test plastic" destroyers that came from herodiscusa.com?

Sorry, I don't know anything about the bar stamp. There were fewer "test plastic" destroyers than night shift destroyers, but when you add the stamp, I don't know.

Dave,

It seems to me that the new R-pro plastic would compliment the molds of the Rhyno, JK Pro Aviar, and Pig wonderfully. Especially since some of the more recent runs of these discs in old "soft pro" weren't really all that soft. Were the other discs that got ran in R-Pro already on the schedule, and Innova just decided to run them in R-pro? (I.E. Hydra, Skeeter, Cro) Or was Innova looking for other discs to try in R-Pro and bumped these molds up the schedule? I guess it really doesn't matter, I have just been awaiting to see the Rhyno and JK Aviar in a new Softer plastic since I heard of R-Pro. It will be like having the SE Rhyno and 3x JK Aviar without the larger price tag.

Thanks for listening and answering all of our petty questions!

Chris

I have one of the R-Pro Hydras and it is anything but soft. Feels like champ plastic and is over stable.

Sorry, I don't know anything about the bar stamp. There were fewer "test plastic" destroyers than night shift destroyers, but when you add the stamp, I don't know.

I believe there were equal numbers of mini bar and mini star nightshifts (250 of each?)
Wish they made more cause mine is money.

Dave,

It seems to me that the new R-pro plastic would compliment the molds of the Rhyno, JK Pro Aviar, and Pig wonderfully. Especially since some of the more recent runs of these discs in old "soft pro" weren't really all that soft. Were the other discs that got ran in R-Pro already on the schedule, and Innova just decided to run them in R-pro? (I.E. Hydra, Skeeter, Cro) Or was Innova looking for other discs to try in R-Pro and bumped these molds up the schedule? I guess it really doesn't matter, I have just been awaiting to see the Rhyno and JK Aviar in a new Softer plastic since I heard of R-Pro. It will be like having the SE Rhyno and 3x JK Aviar without the larger price tag.

Thanks for listening and answering all of our petty questions!

Chris

Yes, basically we have a schedule that we run. We those discs come up in the schedule, we can try R-Pro. The Pig was just up and the JK is coming up next. The Rhyno is still a way out.

I believe there were equal numbers of mini bar and mini star nightshifts (250 of each?)
Wish they made more cause mine is money.

Then that makes the Hero Destroyers the rarest.

Hi Dave,

Have you figured out why Champion Glo plastic rules yet? Why does it seem to age slower and better than all other types of Champion plastic? Also, when will we see Glo Star?

Thanks.

Hi Dave,

Have you figured out why Champion Glo plastic rules yet? Why does it seem to age slower and better than all other types of Champion plastic? Also, when will we see Glo Star?

Thanks.

I have no clue why Champion Glo is better. Maybe the glow pigment agrees with the plastic. We do use another ingredient that helps it stick and might make it grippier, but I have no clue why it works.

We probably won't be making any Star Glo. It doesn't technically agree with the Star plastic.

Yes, basically we have a schedule that we run. We those discs come up in the schedule, we can try R-Pro. The Pig was just up and the JK is coming up next. The Rhyno is still a way out.

Will the JK Avairs that you run all be R-Pro? How soft can you (will you) make these?

Hi Dave,

Have you figured out why Champion Glo plastic rules yet? Why does it seem to age slower and better than all other types of Champion plastic? Also, when will we see Glo Star?

Thanks.

I would love to see all innova champion discs made out of this plastic it does RULE A Champ Glow Destroyer I got acts like a Boss for me real stable wont flip even in a strong head wind

Will the JK Avairs that you run all be R-Pro? How soft can you (will you) make these?

JKs were basically the first of the R-Pros. We now have a more consistent and controllable type of R-Pro Molding will dictate how soft we make the new run. We plan to start as soft as the R-Pro Aviar P&A and Dart. If we need to adjust for some reason, we can.

do you know, roughly, the dates around which the first run of r-pro jk's was run? and would it be possible to have had that run of jk's been sent out. we got some black, blue, orange and yellow ones back in the beginning of april. i guess they would have been stamped end of march?

Any chance for ECO Teebirds?

I have no clue why Champion Glo is better. Maybe the glow pigment agrees with the plastic. We do use another ingredient that helps it stick and might make it grippier, but I have no clue why it works.

We probably won't be making any Star Glo. It doesn't technically agree with the Star plastic.


I think that other ingredient is the winner. I doubt its possible, but would that add in stability as well, since most Glo seems to be more overstable than the other plastic versions?

do you know, roughly, the dates around which the first run of r-pro jk's was run? and would it be possible to have had that run of jk's been sent out. we got some black, blue, orange and yellow ones back in the beginning of april. i guess they would have been stamped end of march?
The new type R-Pro hasn't been run for JKs yet. Just the original type we have been using for years. The new run is scheduled for the next few weeks.

Any chance for ECO Teebirds?

Definitely

I think that other ingredient is the winner. I doubt its possible, but would that add in stability as well, since most Glo seems to be more overstable than the other plastic versions?

The other ingredient could change the way the plastic anneals, but I really have no idea. It was really used to keep the glo pigment from clumping.

Then that makes the Hero Destroyers the rarest.

Just looked back and it was 244 total. so 122 of each hotstamp

http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/browseproducts/Innova-Star-Destroyer-(Night-Shift---Test-Run).HTML

Hey Dave,

What would you say is the most understable Boss and most understable Destroyer (not including the 150 pro bosses)

Thanks

Hey Dave,

What would you say is the most understable Boss and most understable Destroyer (not including the 150 pro bosses)

Thanks

From my experience, the Star Bosses in the heavier weights have been the most under stable. That being said, they are not particularly under stable unless you blast them into a good wind. On the other hand, the lighter weight Starlight Stars (165-166) have been some of the most over stable.

I love Rocs. Rancho and san marino molds both. Great for hyzers, put a little anny on my stable roc and it pans out flat. I wish I had a beat up roc in a durable plastic that flew like this, but I don't. Ontario mold doesnt appeal to me much at all.

I need an Innova midrange that I can buy brand new, throw with a little hyzer and get it to work up flat and to the right (RHBH assumed). Looking for something pretty durable so anything CE, champion, or star

I have seen discraft throwers throw meteors for shots that I'm talking about. They seem to just flip up and hold a nice straight anny line without rolling over like a beat disc.

I have tried champ/star cro and champ cobra and star kite, none of which do what Im looking for. Kite is more of a fairway driver mold anyways. Should I try a shark? am I going to be able to throw it 300-350 like my rocs or will it not go as far?

Thanks for any input on this Dave.

Dave, would PDorries forfeit your love and respect if he just threw a Meteor for a disc that flies like a Meteor? :D

Dave-- are the currently available lighter star destroyers more overstable around 167 like the boss?

I love Rocs. Rancho and san marino molds both. Great for hyzers, put a little anny on my stable roc and it pans out flat. I wish I had a beat up roc in a durable plastic that flew like this, but I don't. Ontario mold doesnt appeal to me much at all.

I need an Innova midrange that I can buy brand new, throw with a little hyzer and get it to work up flat and to the right (RHBH assumed). Looking for something pretty durable so anything CE, champion, or star

I have seen discraft throwers throw meteors for shots that I'm talking about. They seem to just flip up and hold a nice straight anny line without rolling over like a beat disc.

I have tried champ/star cro and champ cobra and star kite, none of which do what Im looking for. Kite is more of a fairway driver mold anyways. Should I try a shark? am I going to be able to throw it 300-350 like my rocs or will it not go as far?

Thanks for any input on this Dave.

You can try what I use; a Champion or Star Coyote. You would have to beat a Shark.

Dave-- are the currently available lighter star destroyers more overstable around 167 like the boss?

Possibly, we did run some Starlight in the Destroyer machine. However it's not a good bet as some of the older run Star Destroyers in the lighter weights (167) were only average in stability. I throw those as they make very good long range straight discs and excellent power rollers for sidearm and backhand.

We will be doing some Starlight Destroyers fairly soon.

Dave, would PDorries forfeit your love and respect if he just threw a Meteor for a disc that flies like a Meteor? :D

No, definitely his choice. I like Nate just fine too. (Oh and Mark Ellis and Brad etc. ect.)

I love Rocs. Rancho and san marino molds both. Great for hyzers, put a little anny on my stable roc and it pans out flat. I wish I had a beat up roc in a durable plastic that flew like this, but I don't. Ontario mold doesnt appeal to me much at all.

I need an Innova midrange that I can buy brand new, throw with a little hyzer and get it to work up flat and to the right (RHBH assumed). Looking for something pretty durable so anything CE, champion, or star

I have seen discraft throwers throw meteors for shots that I'm talking about. They seem to just flip up and hold a nice straight anny line without rolling over like a beat disc.

I have tried champ/star cro and champ cobra and star kite, none of which do what Im looking for. Kite is more of a fairway driver mold anyways. Should I try a shark? am I going to be able to throw it 300-350 like my rocs or will it not go as far?

Thanks for any input on this Dave.
I was gonna say a spider.......To Bad they dont make a stingray in champ but they do make it in star. I have had 2 Champ Rocs in the bag for over 2 years now and they still dont flip flat and anny. One flips flat to straight but still finishes on the Hyzer. Nothing beats a beat in KC Roc for the shot your looking for. Maybe a Leopard but may be to long for what you want

Possibly, we did run some Starlight in the Destroyer machine. However it's not a good bet as some of the older run Star Destroyers in the lighter weights (167) were only average in stability. I throw those as they make very good long range straight discs and excellent power rollers for sidearm and backhand.

We will be doing some Starlight Destroyers fairly soon.

thanks Dave.

i dont know what it is but every star disc i throw (wraith, destroyer, boss) is very overstable in any weight, maybe its my technique. think i will stick with pro destroyers

Nothing beats a beat in KC Roc for the shot your looking for.


Pdorries, this is true. After buying a new KC Roc and beating it in for 4-6 months, it will give you the flight you are looking for. Also, you will become very familiar and comfortable with it's flight after the amount of throws it takes to beat one in. It just takes time.

pdorries, you should go beat the shark.

Dave, would PDorries forfeit your love and respect if he just threw a Meteor for a disc that flies like a Meteor? :D

i only throw the best, and there can only be one best. and im not sucking up on the innova thread, i'd tell the same thing to a beginner

Pdorries, this is true. After buying a new KC Roc and beating it in for 4-6 months, it will give you the flight you are looking for. Also, you will become very familiar and comfortable with it's flight after the amount of throws it takes to beat one in. It just takes time.

ive decided this is what im going to do!


Thanks for all the feedback everyone, your responses were very helpful.


Just thinking about the shape of the disc, i feel like a really beat up cro might be what im looking for too. i gotta take some discs to the woods :)

If you want to beat up a disc fast get a RPro wood Roc. They are weak.

beat cro is very nice. can be thrown hard and get a late right turn out of it.

ive decided this is what im going to do!


Thanks for all the feedback everyone, your responses were very helpful.


Just thinking about the shape of the disc, i feel like a really beat up cro might be what im looking for too. i gotta take some discs to the woods :)

Try a Champion Panther. Profile-wise they are very close to the Meteor and in my experience fly similarly.

I'm no expert, but I think a Coyote is similar to a Meteor.

Try a Champion Panther. Profile-wise they are very close to the Meteor and in my experience fly similarly.

Try a Champion Panther. Profile-wise they are very close to the Meteor and in my experience fly similarly.

2nd.

Can anyone tell me something about the following disc


White DX T-Bird....with some kind of a color sticker(heat transfer type)...4 1/2 inch by 1 1/2 inch..."INNOVA Disc Golf" with the swosh...Rancho on the back

Thanks

Pic?

I love Rocs. Rancho and san marino molds both. Great for hyzers, put a little anny on my stable roc and it pans out flat. I wish I had a beat up roc in a durable plastic that flew like this, but I don't. Ontario mold doesnt appeal to me much at all.

I need an Innova midrange that I can buy brand new, throw with a little hyzer and get it to work up flat and to the right (RHBH assumed). Looking for something pretty durable so anything CE, champion, or star

I have seen discraft throwers throw meteors for shots that I'm talking about. They seem to just flip up and hold a nice straight anny line without rolling over like a beat disc.

I have tried champ/star cro and champ cobra and star kite, none of which do what Im looking for. Kite is more of a fairway driver mold anyways. Should I try a shark? am I going to be able to throw it 300-350 like my rocs or will it not go as far?

Thanks for any input on this Dave.



Hey Pdorries i only throw rocs also try an ontario roc i have a dx classic roc that is beat in do basically throw it flat and watch it flip and watch it fly :D

http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/classicroc.html

my 9x roc is money right now to throw hyzer and watch it just flip right up and fly straight and finish right. BEAUTIFUL!

Hi Dave,
Just picked up a new champion rancho roc. I lost my 06 eye stamp and went with a new USDG version. Thing is, this roc has much more dome and the plastic seems harder and more poppy. The result is that it flips when I throw it hard. It is way less over stable than my 06 rancho roc was. The 06 roc was much flatter with softer plastic. Is this a new mold? Also, is there any plan to make them flatter like the older one's so that they are more over stable? I would much rather throw a roc than a shockwave but I need a mid range I can throw a long way in a head wind without flipping over. Thanks in advance for the insight.

Greg B.

Hi Dave,
Just picked up a new champion rancho roc. I lost my 06 eye stamp and went with a new USDG version. Thing is, this roc has much more dome and the plastic seems harder and more poppy. The result is that it flips when I throw it hard. It is way less over stable than my 06 rancho roc was. The 06 roc was much flatter with softer plastic. Is this a new mold? Also, is there any plan to make them flatter like the older one's so that they are more over stable? I would much rather throw a roc than a shockwave but I need a mid range I can throw a long way in a head wind without flipping over. Thanks in advance for the insight.

Greg B.

The mold is the same, with one possible exception. The nose on the more stable version is sharper than the nose on the slightly less stable version. The dome is an artifact of the blend of material we get from the manufacturer. Sometimes they come out domier, and sometimes less. We can, however make softer Rocs, which will come out flatter. Apparently, you got one of those. For the past two or three years we have been making them slightly stiffer, that may be the reason they are slightly domier.

Thanks for the feedback.

Hi Dave,
Just picked up a new champion rancho roc. I lost my 06 eye stamp and went with a new USDG version. Thing is, this roc has much more dome and the plastic seems harder and more poppy. The result is that it flips when I throw it hard. It is way less over stable than my 06 rancho roc was. The 06 roc was much flatter with softer plastic. Is this a new mold? Also, is there any plan to make them flatter like the older one's so that they are more over stable? I would much rather throw a roc than a shockwave but I need a mid range I can throw a long way in a head wind without flipping over. Thanks in advance for the insight.

Greg B.

Get yourself a 2005 Glow USDGC Champ Rancho they are pigs. I have had one in my bag for 2 1/2 years now and it just started to flip to flat but still wont anny out even in a head wind most stable Roc i have ever thrown

Pretty much every glow champ roc ever made has these characteristics, with the exception of the ones released this year. There are some of the older, flatter ones available on dgu at www.discgolfunited.com

Dave,

Most of the Innova line-up is 21.2cm. But the Roc and a couple of other midranges are 21.7cm. What is the advantage/reason of a midrange being 21.7cm like a Roc vs. 21.2 for a Spider or Cro etc.?

Dave,

Most of the Innova line-up is 21.2cm. But the Roc and a couple of other midranges are 21.7cm. What is the advantage/reason of a midrange being 21.7cm like a Roc vs. 21.2 for a Spider or Cro etc.?

All things held equal, larger discs are slower, with more carry, more forgiving of throwing errors, and easier to perform finesse shots. Small discs are easier to launch and faster.

Can anyone tell me something about the following disc


White DX T-Bird....with some kind of a color sticker(heat transfer type)...4 1/2 inch by 1 1/2 inch..."INNOVA Disc Golf" with the swosh...Rancho on the back

Thanks



anyone,... bueller....bueller

Any pictures?

Pretty much every glow champ roc ever made has these characteristics, with the exception of the ones released this year. There are some of the older, flatter ones available on dgu at www.discgolfunited.com

Where do you see Champ Glows there I am missing them Maybe a direct link

Here you go:

http://www.discgolfunited.com/Store/productlisting.cfm?prod_cat_id=101

Any pictures?


http://www.teamjusticediscgolf.com/P7020073.JPG

Here is a link to a picture...note that it is not a foil stamp...thanks

http://www.teamjusticediscgolf.com/P7020073.JPG

Here is a link to a picture...note that it is not a foil stamp...thanks

I don't remember it, but it looks like a test of either Full Color or transfer technology. The disc was probably secondary to the test. My guess.

Hey dave have you done a let of testing on the grooves, the first one i owned was nice, it was an understable boss like disc, but the one i have in the bag now is stable, dont know if you know anything about it.

Hey dave have you done a let of testing on the grooves, the first one i owned was nice, it was an understable boss like disc, but the one i have in the bag now is stable, dont know if you know anything about it.

Yes, I have noticed that the softer domier Grooves fly more like they are supposed to than the slightly stiffer and flatter Grooves.

Sorry if this question was already asked!

Where are the FB Firebirds? The Firebirds shipped out now(F) aren't as overstable as the old 11X / FB Firebirds!

Sorry if this question was already asked!

Where are the FB Firebirds? The Firebirds shipped out now(F) aren't as overstable as the old 11X / FB Firebirds!

F and FB are the same. Apparently 11X and present are not. We are receiving new batch of material soon (which largely determines how stable the discs like Firebirds are), hopefully it will produce more stable Firebirds than it has recently. Every batch is slightly to more than slightly different, unfortunately.

Dave,
The boss is great. Thanks!

Hey Dave- any idea when we will see some champ or star gator x's?

Hey Dave- any idea when we will see some champ or star gator x's?

No, not at this time. All new Gators will be X type.

one more:
how does dome affect stability of champion rancho rocs? is more domey (poppy-top) more (over)stable or less?
thanks again

F and FB are the same. Apparently 11X and present are not. We are receiving new batch of material soon (which largely determines how stable the discs like Firebirds are), hopefully it will produce more stable Firebirds than it has recently. Every batch is slightly to more than slightly different, unfortunately.

I have bought several 12X/F Firebirds and they tend to flip on me when I am throwing them into a head wind but my 11X/Fb's just hyzer(which is what I like)!

I have found a few 12X Firebirds that say FB not F and they seem to be like the 11X Stability!

one more:
how does dome affect stability of champion rancho rocs? is more domey (poppy-top) more (over)stable or less?
thanks again

Generally, dome is an indication of too much shrink, but not always. Generally, I would expect a domey disc to be less overstable than a flatter disc. Dome actually helps straight line stability, (not over stability). However, when it is an artifact of too much shrink, the nose angle can be changed adversely, which can affect high speed stability.

anyone know if the new star firebirds are anymore overstable than the 12x champs?

anyone know if the new star firebirds are anymore overstable than the 12x champs?

I just played a round with 2 brand new Star Firebirds(SFB) and they are both more overstable than the 12x Champs!

does the Banshee compare stability-wise to the firebird?

does the Banshee compare stability-wise to the firebird?
Banshee kinda compares to a firebird just not as long. It's not as fast and little less fade at the end but just as stable

What are the real details of the Night Shift Orc (colors, stamps quantity produced)? I have heard a couple of different stories but I figure why not get the real information from you.

What are the real details of the Night Shift Orc (colors, stamps quantity produced)? I have heard a couple of different stories but I figure why not get the real information from you.

Original Night Shift Orcs were dark blue. I don't remember the quantities, but guess it was less than 500. Don't remember the stamp.

I have seen a couple around that have the DX stamp that are referred to as Tusla Night shift orcs. Then the ones that I have the regular Champion stamp on them but I have 4 blue ones and one that is kind of Aqua green. Are these the real deal? Thanks in advance.

the DX stamps are the new, stabilized version. The tulsa orcs were special blend orcs, 1st gen star plastic. There were about 150-200 DX stamped ones ran. The Champ stam ones were the original NS and was the early testing for star. There was blue, aqua, yellow, black, and green. Maybe others

I've got two aqua colors currently, 174, and are definitely more overstable...
I've had dark blue as well...


(mine are available if anyone's interested).

I'm just gonna request Pro Bosses. Nice stiff pro bosses. In the star like pro would be nice.

Are there any plans for R-Pro Orcs?

I'm just gonna request Pro Bosses. Nice stiff pro bosses. In the star like pro would be nice.

We will do Pro Bosses when we can.

Are there any plans for R-Pro Orcs?


No plans for any other drivers other than the Boss. The exception would be for R-Pro 150 class. We might do 150 for selected drivers.

I've got two aqua colors currently, 174, and are definitely more overstable...
I've had dark blue as well...


(mine are available if anyone's interested).

Bring em to Kc and I will take care of those pesky orcs for you

I'm just gonna request Pro Bosses. Nice stiff pro bosses. In the star like pro would be nice.

I found one playing at Crowley and gave it a throw and it held a long anhyzer forever before finally coming out. Basically I would assume it was mainly for Distance and may have even been what Wiggins used a few months back.

Dave I know you get bombarded with requests on discs to make. But I was just curious what else in distance catagory that was going to be made in R-pro plastic. Because my girlfriend absolutely loves the R-Pro boss but I was just hoping for something Like the Wraith or The BEAST or The ORC would be my suggestion that would be a little more contrable for the less powered people out there. I am just looking for ways to reach out to those people so they can drive further. Just think about it.

Original Night Shift Orcs were dark blue. I don't remember the quantities, but guess it was less than 500. Don't remember the stamp.

There were Red, Blue, Aqua and Yellow. I was told a few hundred. They had a standard Champion Orc stamp, the same thats on Champ Orcs today. They are better than Star plastic and have never been duplicated correctly.

There are fake Yellows that are actually mis-stamped Pro Orcs.


By far the best Orc ever, probably one of the best drivers ever.

Thank god I have 5. Maybe one will make it ebay.....

They are undervalued on Ebay. Red is the rarest of the colors, Im pretty sure.

The heavy R-pro bosses go further for me than anything else, they have replaced my star destroyers mostly. i have also found them to be plenty durable so far

Hi Dave-
anybody know which Banshees are the most overstable? champ or Glow cfr? any plans for star?

Glow CFR. Pretty much the Glow CFR is the most overstable version of any mold.

Dave,

Do you know if these Bosses are in the Star Lite or Regular Star? Also, any plans to run more Sparkle Star? Thanks

https://www.discgolfvalues.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=324&PHPSESSID=652865098edfa93f19d2a70e65777c09 (Boss in Question)

i was wondering if your ever going to run the pig in anything other than Pro plastic? I'm itching for a really stiff DX maybe even a champion one for short drives

I can't remember if this has been asked, but are there any plans to run Dicmania discs (mainly the PD) in a champion like plastic?

I love the PD.

Dave,

Do you know if these Bosses are in the Star Lite or Regular Star? Also, any plans to run more Sparkle Star? Thanks

https://www.discgolfvalues.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=324&PHPSESSID=652865098edfa93f19d2a70e65777c09 (http://Boss%20in%20Question)


I can't make the link work, but Starlite only comes in light weight Star 165 to 167 gms. 168 to 179 are cross mixes.

i was wondering if your ever going to run the pig in anything other than Pro plastic? I'm itching for a really stiff DX maybe even a champion one for short drives

Stiff DX Pigs are out there. Try contacting the East office.

I can't remember if this has been asked, but are there any plans to run Dicmania discs (mainly the PD) in a champion like plastic?

I love the PD.


Not at this time.

im sure this isn't known yet but just in case... any ideas which disc Avery will get his name on?

im sure this isn't known yet but just in case... any ideas which disc Avery will get his name on?

In a bid to make Super Class more acceptable, Avery's disc will be the Zephyr.

Stiff DX Pigs are out there. Try contacting the East office.

Stockstamped dx Pigs?! I am looking forward to see the stamp. When are they going to be released?

Aj roc??

Dave,
Will the 20th anniv. Roc make it to the general public like the Aviar did? Also, how many made? Thx

Hey Dave, got a friend who is in love with the Polecat. He is really interested in the idea of a champion plastic version, is there any plan to ever run these?

Thanks.

Stockstamped dx Pigs?! I am looking forward to see the stamp. When are they going to be released?

I believe the Pigs are stamped with the R-Pro stamp but were deemed too stiff to be sold as such.

Dave,
Will the 20th anniv. Roc make it to the general public like the Aviar did? Also, how many made? Thx

So far, the 20th anniv. KC Worlds stamp is about 1000. There will be a similar stamp (with no KC) available Aug 10 for general sales. Don't have the numbers on that, but would guess 2 to 3 thousand.

Hey Dave, got a friend who is in love with the Polecat. He is really interested in the idea of a champion plastic version, is there any plan to ever run these?

Thanks.

No plans for a Champion at this point, but we are to test run some R-Pro which might prove interesting.

Dave,

I recently acquired a sharp nose 2 Ring San Marino Roc, and have been very impressed with the flight. I was wondering why the sharp nose was discontinued in favor of the blunt nose. Comparing this Roc with the one I got at Worlds this past week, I see that Innova is using a blunt nose on their new San Marinos (or at least the one I have). Were Ranchos ever made with a sharp nose, and, if so, do you know the approximate dates they were made or the stamps on them (BB, Stable mid range, mid range, current stamp, etc).

Thanks as always. For the record, dgdave wouldn't love the PD if I hadn't spent 6 months telling him to throw one. :)

I would like to thanks Furthur and everyone who got to discgolfvalues before me that day and bought out all the champ glow whippets and cobras. If not for them, I may have not ever tried them.

I would like to thanks Furthur and everyone who got to discgolfvalues before me that day and bought out all the champ glow whippets and cobras. If not for them, I may have not ever tried them.

Did you get a glow Whippet or need one a local course here in Maine has them for $16

I was going to get one, but they were out so I got PD's instead. I'm not needing or wanting a whippet anymore since I saw how domey they came out.

In a bid to make Super Class more acceptable, Avery's disc will be the Zephyr.

LOL... nice Keith! :D

Dave,

I recently acquired a sharp nose 2 Ring San Marino Roc, and have been very impressed with the flight. I was wondering why the sharp nose was discontinued in favor of the blunt nose. Comparing this Roc with the one I got at Worlds this past week, I see that Innova is using a blunt nose on their new San Marinos (or at least the one I have). Were Ranchos ever made with a sharp nose, and, if so, do you know the approximate dates they were made or the stamps on them (BB, Stable mid range, mid range, current stamp, etc).

Thanks as always. For the record, dgdave wouldn't love the PD if I hadn't spent 6 months telling him to throw one. :)

The original San Marino hasn't been made in a long time. The new one was supposed to be made to the same specs so I don't know why it would be blunter. It should say San Marino on the bottom. The Ranchos are made with a blunt nose that can be made blunter, but rarely is.

Ya, they do. It's the commemorative Roc they were giving out last week. Thanks for the information Dave. I have one of the dx Sanny re-issues in my basement I'm going to compare to see if the nose is blunt or sharp. Perhaps the star Sannys just mold up like that and look blunter.

Hope you had fun in KC last week.

I was going to get one, but they were out so I got PD's instead. I'm not needing or wanting a whippet anymore since I saw how domey they came out.


They are rather domey but still overstable pigs almost as much as the Champ I got off A.J.

Dave,
Finally Champ Destroyer out in regular production. How do they compare to the CFRs please tell me that they aren;t real domey like alot of champ plastic has been coming out. What gives with that too most rather domey lately

Dave,

Any chance of production run champ teerex's in the near future?

Dave,
Finally Champ Destroyer out in regular production. How do they compare to the CFRs please tell me that they aren;t real domey like alot of champ plastic has been coming out. What gives with that too most rather domey lately

We mold the faster discs out of two different kinds of plastic. The Champion Destroyers were made of the more stable and less domey plastic. Generally we use the domey plastic with Star, rather than Champion.

Dave,

Any chance of production run champ teerex's in the near future?

Only for tfr at this point.

Dave, any chance of an R-Pro Rhyno, looking for something to replace my old S-E Rhynos eventually. Not a fan of the Pro plastic Rhyno.

If so, would that be in a variety of weights for the R-Pro.

Thanks for all you've done for the sport!

We mold the faster discs out of two different kinds of plastic. The Champion Destroyers were made of the more stable and less domey plastic. Generally we use the domey plastic with Star, rather than Champion.


Love hearing this thanks Dave

Dave, any chance of an R-Pro Rhyno, looking for something to replace my old S-E Rhynos eventually. Not a fan of the Pro plastic Rhyno.

If so, would that be in a variety of weights for the R-Pro.

Thanks for all you've done for the sport!

Yes, next time we run Rhynos, they will be in R-Pro. The weights for Rhynos are generally run from 165-175gms. Some will be a little lower.

Dave, I have a question about about this last run of Champ Bosses from the East Coast. They are Flat, just like the 1st run Champ Bosses were, but these things are slightly more stable than the initial release of the Production Bosses.

Were the 1st run Bosses molded/stablized in a different manner than the production versions were? Im trying to find a Boss that is a little less stable in the champion plastic and i figured that flat, like the 1st runs, is where its at. apparently I was wrong.

Dave, I have a question about about this last run of Champ Bosses from the East Coast. They are Flat, just like the 1st run Champ Bosses were, but these things are slightly more stable than the initial release of the Production Bosses.

Were the 1st run Bosses molded/stablized in a different manner than the production versions were? Im trying to find a Boss that is a little less stable in the champion plastic and i figured that flat, like the 1st runs, is where its at. apparently I was wrong.

The first run were stabilized the same way, but possibly a slightly different mix. If you want a slightly less stable Boss, you should try the Star Boss. The heavier ones are a little less stable. Don't get any less that 169 or it might by more stable. Another possibility is to get a Destroyer instead. They are a little less stable too. If you can find a domier Boss in Champion, that will tend to be a little less stable.

Dave, and anyone else who knows-

How are max wt Glow Champ Wraiths different from max wt Star Wraiths? Flight, dome, grip comparison please.

Thanks!

Dave, and anyone else who knows-

How are max wt Glow Champ Wraiths different from max wt Star Wraiths? Flight, dome, grip comparison please.

Thanks!

comparisons might be difficult as max weight star wraiths have huge variance.

Dave, and anyone else who knows-

How are max wt Glow Champ Wraiths different from max wt Star Wraiths? Flight, dome, grip comparison please.

Thanks!

I don't know specifically, but if it follows the same pattern as other high speed drivers and Glow Champ, I would say the Glow Champ would be more stable and lower profile. Just a guess.

I know my Champ glow whippet is more domey and not as overstable as my champuon Whippet.

Hey dave what mold is the most stable orc, is champ not so clear discs, or star, or clear orcs should fly the same as the pearl orcs? I have an champ orc from 06 worlds still in my bag and it is more stable than the star ones i have thrown and have not come in to any pearl or solid orcs in awhile.

Hey dave what mold is the most stable orc, is champ not so clear discs, or star, or clear orcs should fly the same as the pearl orcs? I have an champ orc from 06 worlds still in my bag and it is more stable than the star ones i have thrown and have not come in to any pearl or solid orcs in awhile.

Night Shift Orcs and Champion are consistently more stable than Star, I believe.

Hey dave what mold is the most stable orc, is champ not so clear discs, or star, or clear orcs should fly the same as the pearl orcs? I have an champ orc from 06 worlds still in my bag and it is more stable than the star ones i have thrown and have not come in to any pearl or solid orcs in awhile.

my experience is that the first run pearly Champ Orcs are not as stable as the subsequent clearer runs. the clearer ones tend to be more overstable and more domey... I personally liked the pearly ones but will trade them for blue Tulsa Orcs... My understanding is that the SB (Tulsa) Orcs were basicly first run Star Orcs and seem more stable than the pearly Champs. Weren't Nightshift Orcs basicly the prototype SB/Star?

Hi Dave,

I really like Star Destroyers, but am curious about Champs. Are they more or less stable? how do they compare to the Star?

my experience is that the first run pearly Champ Orcs are not as stable as the subsequent clearer runs. the clearer ones tend to be more overstable and more domey... I personally liked the pearly ones but will trade them for blue Tulsa Orcs... My understanding is that the SB (Tulsa) Orcs were basicly first run Star Orcs and seem more stable than the pearly Champs. Weren't Nightshift Orcs basicly the prototype SB/Star?


Yes, but Night Shifts are better. Not nearly as stiff feeling as the SBs or Star. They feel like the Taffy CE plastic, especially if its used Taffy. I dont know about Pearl being in the 1st runs. To the best of my memory they were all cloudy clear, the pearls came after. I could be wrong, but I still have a stack of them, all with the belly button and the lack of pigment fully through the rim.

Alright Dave,

Thanks for the reply on my last question. I guess i just prefer Champ over Star in most cases as I find it beats in far less

That actually brings me to my next question.

This could just be scuttlebutt from around the Innova water cooler, but rumor has it that Innova is looking to start remaking CE or a very hard/durable CE like plastic again.

Can you shed any light?

Also, a buddy of mine has a Discraft Rattler. I like playing catch with it, but i find Innova more consistent than Discraft. (I know most people claim the opposite, maybe i just know what to look for from mold to mold/plastic to plastic)

Is there anything in the Innova line that flies as close? Ive tried the Aero, love the disc but its just so dang FAST! The Sonic was way to flippy. Im wanting something to throw those nice air bounces/floats/stalls for approach shots. Your suggestion would be helpful and appreciated.

I really like Star Destroyers, but am curious about Champs. Are they more or less stable? how do they compare to the Star?

I find it depends on the dome. In plastic terms, my champs are more stable. I have flat star and champs and domey stars and champs. the flat ones i can hyzer flip and gets some killer D out of. The domey ones I use in the wind or when I need to throw a 400+ skip shot. Most stable thing in my bag is not an Excal... oh no... its a super domey champ destroyer.

Hi Dave,

I really like Star Destroyers, but am curious about Champs. Are they more or less stable? how do they compare to the Star?

Hi Rob,

Champs are molded to be more stable out of a more stable plastic, but stuff happens sometime. I only throw Star Destroyers, and lighter weights at that. I try to get Destroyers that have a little turn to them. Last time I got new Star Destroyers, they didn't have any initial turn and I am still beating them to get what I want. Of course, I am not throwing over 400 ft at all, right now. More like 380, so I may not be stressing the stability enough.

Alright Dave,

Thanks for the reply on my last question. I guess i just prefer Champ over Star in most cases as I find it beats in far less

That actually brings me to my next question.

This could just be scuttlebutt from around the Innova water cooler, but rumor has it that Innova is looking to start remaking CE or a very hard/durable CE like plastic again.

Can you shed any light?

Also, a buddy of mine has a Discraft Rattler. I like playing catch with it, but i find Innova more consistent than Discraft. (I know most people claim the opposite, maybe i just know what to look for from mold to mold/plastic to plastic)

Is there anything in the Innova line that flies as close? Ive tried the Aero, love the disc but its just so dang FAST! The Sonic was way to flippy. Im wanting something to throw those nice air bounces/floats/stalls for approach shots. Your suggestion would be helpful and appreciated.

We have been trying to reproduce the original CE plastic, but the manufacturer that produced it, stopped and we haven't found a true substitute yet.

The slowest straightest discs we produce are The Birdie and Polecat. After that, it would probably be the Zephyr, which is a much larger diameter disc.

I dont know about Pearl [Champ Orcs] being in the 1st runs. To the best of my memory they were all cloudy clear, the pearls came after. I could be wrong, but I still have a stack of them, all with the belly button and the lack of pigment fully through the rim.

I don't know what exactly you refer to when you differentiate pearl from cloudy -- i know all the Ch. Orcs that I got when Orcs *first* came out were pearlier or cloudier than the subsequent clear runs which I didn't care for being prone to hyzeritis and air bounce city.

the ones I like were the first runs. I don't have as much nuanced differentiation knowledge of the runs though as you apparently have so please enlighten. Were the Pearl after the clear and the cloudy first? How do i distinguish a Cloudy from a pearlescent? timeline?

Hi Rob,

Champs are molded to be more stable out of a more stable plastic, but stuff happens sometime. I only throw Star Destroyers, and lighter weights at that. I try to get Destroyers that have a little turn to them. Last time I got new Star Destroyers, they didn't have any initial turn and I am still beating them to get what I want. Of course, I am not throwing over 400 ft at all, right now. More like 380, so I may not be stressing the stability enough.

I am throwing 169g Star X-outs from Mark and love the hyzer D they yield -- it's amazing. They do seem to want to flip when thrown hard without pure hyzer; however I recently traded for some heavier ones and will see how they react...

I am about to buy some R-Pro Aviars -- unless you have an ETA for R-Pro JK Aviar-x's? Another vote for R-Pro Orcs too...

I am throwing 169g Star X-outs from Mark and love the hyzer D they yield -- it's amazing. They do seem to want to flip when thrown hard without pure hyzer; however I recently traded for some heavier ones and will see how they react...

I am about to buy some R-Pro Aviars -- unless you have an ETA for R-Pro JK Aviar-x's? Another vote for R-Pro Orcs too...

The R-Pro JKs are being made now. They are not as soft as the R-Pro Aviars though. We couldn't get them to hold their shape well softer. Unfortunate for the real soft fans.

We do have two alternatives to the JK. One is the P2, and the other is the RP Dart. The P2 is in between the JK and the RP Aviar. The Dart is, in my opinion, the truest flying putter and approach disc we have, though it might be a little faster than an Aviar.

The P2s are great. Its like a beadless Aviar X with almost all the stability.

What molds have been made in Echo Green Plastic to date?

The ones I know of for sure are:

XCal, Destroyer, Wraith, Monarch, Leopard, Kite, San Marino Roc, and Aviar Driver.

I guess I am collecting them...

There are some eagles at Marshall Street in the Natural Beauties section that look real close to Echo.

Like this

Dave,

i've seen a very starish blend of DX plastic, it's very stiff and tacky and more durable than traditional DX plastic. i've seen it a few times in rocs and now today in an Aviar Driver, but it always was on a custom stamped disc. also no city on the bottom... i guess this is what people are referring to as the WWW mold? what i want to know is how can i get some more rocs in this plastic short of showing up at tourneys and hoping that those are the rocs you guys printed for them...

What molds have been made in Echo Green Plastic to date?

The ones I know of for sure are:

XCal, Destroyer, Wraith, Monarch, Leopard, Kite, San Marino Roc, and Aviar Driver.

I guess I am collecting them...

Groove and TeeBird are two more. I don't have the entire list.

Dave,

i've seen a very starish blend of DX plastic, it's very stiff and tacky and more durable than traditional DX plastic. i've seen it a few times in rocs and now today in an Aviar Driver, but it always was on a custom stamped disc. also no city on the bottom... i guess this is what people are referring to as the WWW mold? what i want to know is how can i get some more rocs in this plastic short of showing up at tourneys and hoping that those are the rocs you guys printed for them...

As for how you can get these now; I guess you just have to ask your dealer for them specifically.

The newer DX plastic is sometimes mixed with R-Pro to give it more grip and durability. It has been getting incorporated into many of the DX models. We are still experimenting to get the best results. Feedback like this helps, thanks. The chief problem has been getting them to cycle. DX needs to cycle automatically (with very few rejects) to keep the cost down.

Dave,

Would there be any chance the rhyno will be made in the R-pro wood plastic mix? Even better an eco gummmy mix for star rhynos? If not, is there any plans to release the gummy star rhynos to general release?

Thanks

Dave,

Would there be any chance the rhyno will be made in the R-pro wood plastic mix? Even better an eco gummmy mix for star rhynos? If not, is there any plans to release the gummy star rhynos to general release?

Thanks

No plans for R_Pro Wood or Eco gummy at this point. We do have plans for Gummy Star Rhynos. I believe some have already been released.

I don't know what exactly you refer to when you differentiate pearl from cloudy -- i know all the Ch. Orcs that I got when Orcs *first* came out were pearlier or cloudier than the subsequent clear runs which I didn't care for being prone to hyzeritis and air bounce city.

the ones I like were the first runs. I don't have as much nuanced differentiation knowledge of the runs though as you apparently have so please enlighten. Were the Pearl after the clear and the cloudy first? How do i distinguish a Cloudy from a pearlescent? timeline?

All the ones I feel are firsts are cloudy clear. They are straight stable with minor fade.They have small color bursts through the flight plate, and have a belly button indention on the top. They also have something similar to stretch marks around the center, like old batchs of CE. If Im correct your talking about the flat top second runs, they were PEARL-like plastic. They looked pearly all through, similar to say the lighter 11x KC Teebirds, whereas only some of the firsts had pearl bursts, depending on the color of plastic. If it was white or lighter in color, the streaks or color bursts took on a pearl look. The colors I have make them look more like liquid bursts than the pearl type. They were not opaque though, but not exactly clear. There was a later run done, after the pearls os something, for arguements sake, say 3rd run. Those were almost glass clear, but lack the belly button and stretch marks. On alot of the ones Ive had, so Id assume most have this trait, the topside of the nipple will peel a bit, almost like shedding skin. That isnt the case with the later runs, only the firsts. They also didnt have the bursts. The color in the later clears didnt extend all the way to the farthest end of the rim either. They would be a small fraction of clear.

The pearls have swirls on the bottom side of the rim that almost look like injection points. Its tough to explain but if you have them in hand pretty easy. I still have the first Orcs I bought, and that was when they came out. I could be wrong though, no doubt.

Don't shot me but man we get to into what runs look like what and which runs are better etc etc. It's funny to read how this person likes the clear champion and this person prefers the pearly ones over the slight clear ones. And "can you make gummy this and not that" it cracks me up. I just want the orginal CE back thats all nothing more. My bag consist of about 5-6 CE fairway drivers and some 9X and 10X Kc Pro Teebirds (very CEish) I'd kill for a Destroyer in CE closest to it so far is the Echo Stars JMO

Dave (or dgdave),

Can you fill in the blank?

A PD would take my ___________ out of the bag.

z-pred

Dave (or dgdave),

Can you fill in the blank?

A PD would take my ___________ out of the bag.

Could be a number of discs from our line up including Firebird, TeeBird, Banshee, and Starfire.

Could be a number of discs from our line up including Firebird, TeeBird, Banshee, and Starfire.

It took out my Teebird, after about 9-10 years of them being in my bag. I don't see a need for any of the other discs that Dave listed with a PD in the bag. The FB could also be used as the PDs aren't that overstable, but I like to shape the line more than throw something really overstable.

Dave,

I really like the heavy R-Pro Boss (around 168-170), how can i continue to get them now that most of the US Masters versions are all gone? Will i have to wait for regular pro bosses to get these weights, or will you make some heavier R-pro bosses soon?

Dave,

I really like the heavy R-Pro Boss (around 168-170), how can i continue to get them now that most of the US Masters versions are all gone? Will i have to wait for regular pro bosses to get these weights, or will you make some heavier R-pro bosses soon?

While we don't intend on making the heavier weights, some will be available just because of molding errors.

Hi, I have a 10x kc pro aviar that is missing the short range driver on the stamp and I was wandering if you knew anything about these? I't's dark white (cream colored), anything special about this? Thanks

Its an earlier run of them.

Hi, I have a 10x kc pro aviar that is missing the short range driver on the stamp and I was wandering if you knew anything about these? I't's dark white (cream colored), anything special about this? Thanks

First run, I think. Black stamp?
The plastic is very similar to 9x Aviar plastic.

The speed 6 and speed 8 ranges seem a little empty. The trend in fairway drivers these days seems to be faster, and slightly larger diameter (e.g. CD, Striker, Stalker). I'd love to see a faster teebird-type disc ( 8, 6, 0, 1 ) or something like that. Or a slower Eagle-X (6, 4, -1, 3).

Got anything revolutionary cooking?

First run, I think. Black stamp?
The plastic is very similar to 9x Aviar plastic.

They were different variants. I have a softer and a stiff version of both the 9 and 10. The one being posted about I have has a black stamp, and is softer.

Will the R-Pro Boss be re-produced in the current plastic????

20 years of disc golf.....and this is the worst plastic ever...but then it goes farther than any disc I have ever thrown...I am torn

I gave away 5 of the ones I had put big gashes in the rim(145-153g).....all to kids under 11 years old

1 kid(9) played his first 9 holes ever with one and 3ed the last 3 holes(Kyle 11-12-13)

On the flip side I had to re-buy 5 and give away 5 out of the 25 I bought...so I am still torn on the value of this plastic

i think regular dx or stiff kc plastic would make these light ones better.

Hi Dave,

Any chance of a disc for Tim S.?

Sorry for your loss personally and professionally.

Ya it has a black stamp, and is definitely softer than the bright white version. Mine is new but only weighs 170g unfortunately. Thanks for the info.

I posted a while back about looking for an innova midrange that flew like a meteor because I saw people throwing meteors for nice long turnover shots.

I tried the coyote, cobra, and beating up some rocs. I never got a roc to beat up enough to hyzer flip up and hold a nice straight line like I wanted.

Bottom line to this story is I broke down and got a meteor and added it to the bag. It is sweeeeeet and flies just like I had hoped for.

Still love my rocs for straight shots that fade left but the meteor is in a class of its own for turnover shots and flip hyzer approaches and drives.

My recommendation would be for innova to try to make a midrange similar to the meteor. I'm sure all of the innova throwers would enjoy it.

Hi Dave-
any word on champ (or star) gators w/ a bead? regular production?
thanks

I posted a while back about looking for an innova midrange that flew like a meteor because I saw people throwing meteors for nice long turnover shots.

I tried the coyote, cobra, and beating up some rocs. I never got a roc to beat up enough to hyzer flip up and hold a nice straight line like I wanted.

Bottom line to this story is I broke down and got a meteor and added it to the bag. It is sweeeeeet and flies just like I had hoped for.

Still love my rocs for straight shots that fade left but the meteor is in a class of its own for turnover shots and flip hyzer approaches and drives.

My recommendation would be for innova to try to make a midrange similar to the meteor. I'm sure all of the innova throwers would enjoy it.


The Champion panther flies like it, i went to a metor when they oped making panthers then the brought it back so i took the metor out of the bag, so give that a try or a skeeter.

Hi Dave-
any word on champ (or star) gators w/ a bead? regular production?
thanks
I 2nd the request for original champ Gators. :)
-Chris A

I never got a roc to beat up enough to hyzer flip up and hold a nice straight line like I wanted.

DX or KC? If I get a new KC, it takes me like 6 months of frequent play to beat it in to my understable roc slot. It's worth it.

Should try finding a play it again or a used disc seller, non-ebay. They always have some super beat Rocs.

I agree that there is really truely nothing out there like the meteor. I have never been able to consistently throw a hyzer midrange that pops up and flies dead straight or I can even make it turn over with a very long anny. I also request innova to make something similar to this disc.

Try a Kite.