Post 1000!

Just wanted to be the one. :D

Dave, did Ching have to tweak the plastic used in their Color-Max discs? I'm guessing they had to do something different to get their hotstamps to 'take'...an extra coating perhaps? Their white Rocs seem more durable & more slick (texture-wise) than an Innova DX Roc...?

Dave, are glow discs due to a phosphorescent additive or coating?
Also, a 1st run "blueberry" Valk is on e-bay going for nearly $100...my 1st run Valk is significantly darker...more of a teal...is this 'blueberry' as well? :confused:

Dave, I got a CE JLS today. Will this fly just like a QJLS or what? I am going to assume it is just the JLS mold made with CE plastic.

"Dave's not here!" :D
The CE JLS's came out before the Q-JLS's...if it's unthrown, it's rare.

different plastic. the new Q plastic is like proline. it is more overstable.

I have a CE JLS and to me it throws like z-xl or a 9x teebird (a nice straight disc that is easy to control).

yeah...mine is unthrown and it is tye-dyed

suprfreak, there was no tweaking done to the mold, however the plastic was tweaked slightly. I was unaware that the perception was that they were a little more stable. There is always variation in candy. Less so with DX. The additional stability might be explained by normal variation or the guys running them might be doing it better. Thanks for the info.



Just wanted to say that I really like the improvements in the feel of the plastic in my new Barry Schultz Beast vs the earlier Champion Beasts. Keep up the good work! ;)

Plankeye, I am pretty sure that Gary C is looking for a CE JLS. you may want to see if he's interested in it. He's from the High Point area.

He lost 2 in a weekend last year and was mortally bummed.

Matt

Jesus Christmichael!

Dave - is there a timeline on when a new run of JK Aviar X's will come out ? You had said a while back that you were trying to get them soft again like the 3x ones. I am running out of putters! Only one 3x max weight left, and its being saved until it is absolutely needed (also my favorite disc). Those 4x ones just don't cut it, they are nowhere near as soft when new or after being broken in.



[10/01/03]

AJ, they have been made, but are just sitting, behind the stiffer ones that aren't selling very well. I agree with you completely, and I will see what I can do to get the in the system as soon as possible. Thanks



Dave, someone I know ordered JK's from Innova last Monday, received them Friday, and all 20 are the stiffer version. Were many of the softer second run 4x JK's produced, and do you know if there are still a lot of the stiffer ones ahead of them in the warehouse?

Rob I can tell you that the plastic isn't as soft as the 3x. My friend has an old version of the 4x and it is stiff. Around here there are the updated versions of the 4x and they are not as stiff as the 3x(but still a little rigid).

rob, do you know if they ordered from the East or West office? The West has been shipping the softer version for at least a month now. I don't know about the East. They still may be shipping the stiffer version. The new run won't happen for a month or so. I have been playing with the softer version of the 4s for quite a while now and am extremely satified with the grip, flight, and durablility. The stiffer version is at least as stiff as a regular putter, and the softer version is a litter stiffer than an Omega SS, but softer than a regular putter.

Dave, the order was from Innova East. I had the impression that Innova West only made them and then sent them to East to get hot-stamped and distributed. Do some get hot-stamped on the east coast and then sent to Innova West for distribution ... or ... ? I wonder how many of the stiffer ones the East warehouse still has before it will be sending out the softer 4x JK's?

I guess the 5x's JK Aviars will definitely be the sweet soft stuff? I just got the 5x JK Valkyrie from that same vendor (Fred Salaz, Disc-n-tucky) -- pretty cool.

Do you think you will ever go back to making the MTA weight Classic Roc? I would love to get a couple of those, since -- although they are hard to throw -- you think they might be able to break the current MTA record. My best is only a 12.79 (MTA Condor) but I just started last year and I could spend hours MTAing (if the weather would only warm up) Also, are there any plans to make more of the MTA Rocs? Thanks for all your INNOVAtion and the time you take to answer questions.

Hi Rob, you need to call Innova East for the JK answer. We keep discs here for distribution too on the west coast. They are hot stamped on both coasts. All subsequent JK runs will be softer grippy durable stable runs. We could have made MTA classics Rocs just now, but we didn't . Not really a market as they are difficult to throw but they absolutely could break the record again. The regular Roc is still made in MTA weights. It is good, easier to throw for good times, but doesn't have the potential of the Classic, I think.

Rob the Innova East only has the harder 4x's at the momment. I check when I go down there on a weekly basis. They have cases of these left and will probally not get any more any time soon until these start to sell down.

Rob the Innova East only has the harder 4x's at the momment. I check when I go down there on a weekly basis. They have cases of these left and will probally not get any more any time soon until these start to sell down.



thanks for the update. how many discs are in a case -- 100? that may mean Innova East will be selling 5x's once the stiffer 4x's are gone. Also, is the stiffer plastic that was accidentally used DX plastic?

rob, I don't think it was dx, just poorly followed instructions, or some other mix up in ingredients.

Dave, so if someone, me for example, wanted to order some of the softer JK's, who would you recommend? I like the 4X, they're not as stiff as some of my older Aviars, but I never threw the 3x. I've felt them and love them, but cannot pay the e-bay price they normally go for. I'd love to get some softer ones. thanks, russ .c

Champion Rhyno question. Will they become available in the mid- to upper 160's in gummy plastic?

Russ, I don't know how to answer your question exactly, but we have only shipped the soft kind for a couple of months from here. I would simply ask your dealer whether they are softer and grippier than a regular putter, or more like a supper soft than a putter. If he has a hard time telling the difference between his JKs and putters, he probably has the wrong kind. You can ask him to specifically order the soft.

Dave, are SE rocs going to be run anytime soon? Will they be a general release or fundraiser?

also SE TL's?

and T's, Vikings, and maybe even some SE aviars!

all of these will most likely be run sooner or later. We are running a test Aviar right now. The TeeBird has already been run, don't know about the TL right now. We will definitely do the Valk and Leopard too. Viking would be good too. Roc will be done too.

all of these will most likely be run sooner or later. We are running a test Aviar right now. The TeeBird has already been run, don't know about the TL right now. We will definitely do the Valk and Leopard too. Viking would be good too. Roc will be done too.



Thanks, Dave!

dave, let me know if you need an AM tester for those aviars! :D

You're welcome Felix. :)

We are running a test Aviar right now.



Thanks Dave, another Aviar for my putting trials and tribulations! :D

Dave, how long until we should expect these to be on the market? Valks and Rocs in particular.

thanks dave--when do you expect the se teebirds to be avaliable?

I'm under the impression that the SE type plastic is generally a little less stable than the candy plastic. Is this true Dave?

true

I'm sure this has already been discussed, but I dunno.
Are the 5x JK Aviars going to be soft like the 3x's? Thanks!

Kid, I would not expect Rocs or Valks before april, but the Tees should be sooner. TL, not sure when they will be produced. Aviar is not planned for market yet. Just a test at this point. Leopard will be in the mix probably by april too.

Disc Nerd, I would say that the SE has definitely been less stable in the past, but that may not hold for the future. The Rocs I tested were just as stable, as was the Teebird. The discs do tend to be domier for sure.

DDH, all subsequent runs of JKs will be the softer grippier type. The stiff ones were a mistake.

dave--when you say the rocs and t-birds were just as stable, are you comparing them to dx or 11x teebirds, and dx rancho or ce rocs? thanks again

forgot--orc would be awesome in this new plastic. and will the orc or viking or monster be made in dx? do you have a name for this new se-type line of plastic yet? thnaks

dave--when you say the rocs and t-birds were just as stable, are you comparing them to dx or 11x teebirds, and dx rancho or ce rocs? thanks again



Probably comparing the new run to SE Rocs and SE Teebirds.

I was comparing them to CE Rocs and CE Teebirds. Usually the SE type plastic in Teebirds is a little less stable, but I didn't see that. The Rocs were always stable.

So when will new runs of JK Aviars be available? Will Barry Shultz get any more signature discs?

We have plenty of soft JKs now. They just haven't seemed to have gotten distributed widely yet on the East coast.

We have plenty of soft JKs now. They just haven't seemed to have gotten distributed widely yet on the East coast.


As far as I know, none have made their way to Omaha NE yet either!

dave, how you doin? been a while :D
I would like to request the small bead or big bead done in green (the color of money)
I required one a year ago from John's ranch and not been succesful in require another. Can you help?

Hi Vinnie, we make green all the time. Ask John to specifically request green and he will get it. Lime green is the most often made green color followed by aqua. Money green is a little rarer but does get made on a regular basis.

thank you for the answer, I will get with him.

you may have already gotten this question but i didnt want to look back in the thread that far, anyways was the mold for the 5x jk valk any different because i threw mine the other day and loved it. It seemed to go alot farther than the 4x and then i threw it a few more times and got an ace with it :Dsweet!

The mold is the same.

Dave, what is the deal with these CFR Glo TL's? Have you thrown one? Can you compare flight characteristics to a regular CFR TL? Nolan Grider told me that they are understable.

Kid Roc, sorry, I don't know anything about the specific flight of those discs. I do know that regular TLs are somewhat unstable and Nolan is a power thrower. Don't know if that helps.

Sorry I guess that I didn't explain it correctly. Nolan said that they are less stable than the other TL's.

Oh well, I will get one and tell you how it flies. :D

What would you say is the difference between a Champion TeeBird and a TL? Thanks again.

What would you say is the difference between a Champion TeeBird and a TL? Thanks again.



The TL is less stable. It may have just a little more glide also.

davei:
Hey Dave. Great to see you at Oak Grove last weekend. How'd you do? It was fun to finally put a face (and HAT) on your messages.
Just to stay on topic, what's the difference in flights between a Viking and a Valkyrie?

:)

Hi Blarg, good to meet you too, although in passing. I didn't score well, but I was throwing pretty well. Oak Grove is not my cup of tea. The difference between the Viking and Valkyrie is much the same as between the Beast and Orc. The Viking is a more stable, straighter version of the Valkyrie, the way that the Orc is a straighter more stable version of the Beast.

What would you say is the difference between a Champion TeeBird and a TL? Thanks again.



The TL is less stable. It may have just a little more glide also.



Thanks for the info. Are the TL's only available as a CFR right now?

What would you say is the difference between a Champion TeeBird and a TL? Thanks again.



The TL is less stable. It may have just a little more glide also.



Thanks for the info. Are the TL's only available as a CFR right now?



Yes.

What would you say is the difference between a Champion TeeBird and a TL? Thanks again.



The TL is less stable. It may have just a little more glide also.



Thanks for the info. Are the TL's only available as a CFR right now?



Yes.



Thats a whole lota quotes! :p

Champion Rhyno
The Champion Rhyno has arrived. Roll this disc! More Info



Dave,
This is off the front page of the Innova site. It's been bugging me for weeks now, so I thought I'd bring it to your attention since I figure you might know who to call to fix it. I don't think you are really promoting the rhyno as a roller...or are you? :D

I honestly don't know where that came from... I have a feeling I cut and pasted from the old Stingray quote and forgot to update the text. will fix it tomorrow. Thanks for spotting that.

Matt

Dave I apologize if you have previously answered this question.

I have one of the Black CE Cobras from Flagstaff. To me this plastic is very similar to 2001 CE Roc plastic .

1. is it the same
2. any left for future CFR discs?

What would you say is the difference between a Champion TeeBird and a TL? Thanks again.



The TL is less stable. It may have just a little more glide also.



Thanks for the info. Are the TL's only available as a CFR right now?



Yes.



Thats a whole lota quotes! :p



yes it is!

What would you say is the difference between a Champion TeeBird and a TL? Thanks again.



The TL is less stable. It may have just a little more glide also.



Thanks for the info. Are the TL's only available as a CFR right now?



Yes.



Thats a whole lota quotes! :p



yes it is!



I agree. :D

Davei:

I am curious.... The first run Champion Edition Firebirds were FL's. Is there any chance in the future that Innova will be producing a Champion Firebird FL soon? I think alot of dgolfers would love it! Let me know. Thanks...

discgolf

I think the Champion XD is getting fairly close. February I believe.



Is it done yet or still getting closer?

Dave:

What is the status/ETA on the return of the Champion Gremlins? I am down to my last one and the season is starting to gear up. Also...how long until we start seeing the SE discs up for sale? Also...I would like to second the idea of the return of the FL. It was such a sweet disc. Also...will there be any chance that we will ever see a sub-170g Champion Monster? How about a SE Beast or SE Aviar or DX Orc?

I've seen sub-170 monsters....i picked up a 166 in a shop nearby, it felt more gummy than the heavier monsters. didnt get a chande to throw it though.

Davei:

I am curious.... The first run Champion Edition Firebirds were FL's. Is there any chance in the future that Innova will be producing a Champion Firebird FL soon? I think alot of dgolfers would love it! Let me know. Thanks...

discgolf



I would also like to know this and if this is true/untrue then will there be an FX. I read a while back that the F and the FX were the same thing? so is the champion F that is out right now and F mold or an FX?

The Champion Firebirds are FX.

brookep, the plastic is ver similar but not identical.

About FLs and FX. The current Champion Firebird will remain the same. We are thinking about the FL as a different model. I hope it happens

Should the new SE Valkyries be as understable as the old ones? Please say yes.

discchucker, our schedule has moved back a bit on everything. guys missing work and interruptions. The usual. Gremlins have been moved back a month. SE (Pro) TeeBirds and Pro Aviars should be available any day now. Champion Monsters really don't work well below 170 as they tend to lose some stability. Not a good thing for a Monster. We do have a solution, but won't be able to use it for several months. Pro (SE) Beasts and Orcs will happen sooner or later but not that soon.

Kid Roc, I don't know right now about the stability of the SE type Valks. Seems as if they will start more stable than last time and work in to flip. Really have to shoot them to tell though. I will let you know.

About FLs and FX. The current Champion Firebird will remain the same. We are thinking about the FL as a different model. I hope it happens



Thanks Dave. Please keep thinking... :)

Thanks Dave. We all are (im)patiently waiting. :D

Well I am glad to see that my request has sparked other interest in the Firebird FL's. Dave I hope Innova does reproduce the FL's again. If not in the standard line maybe in a CFR line.

discchucker, our schedule has moved back a bit on everything. guys missing work and interruptions. The usual. Gremlins have been moved back a month. SE (Pro) TeeBirds and Pro Aviars should be available any day now. Champion Monsters really don't work well below 170 as they tend to lose some stability. Not a good thing for a Monster. We do have a solution, but won't be able to use it for several months. Pro (SE) Beasts and Orcs will happen sooner or later but not that soon.



What do you mean by SE? What would be the difference between this and Champion? Just curious!

CE is a candy type material like Champion plastic. SE is a different type material that is more grippy than candy but not as durable. SE is an opaque and candy is see through.

CE is a candy type material like Champion plastic. SE is a different type material that is more grippy than candy but not as durable. SE is an opaque and candy is see through.


Is this like the plastic used for Pro Line discs, the predesesors to Champion (Candy)?

CE is a candy type material like Champion plastic. SE is a different type material that is more grippy than candy but not as durable. SE is an opaque and candy is see through.


Is this like the plastic used for Pro Line discs, the predesesors to Champion (Candy)?



I don't think so. SE was a special line of plastic that started in 1999 if I remember correctly. The KC Pro Signature line started several years prior.

I used the SE Leopard @ AM Worlds that year. :DDefinitely not as durable or stable as CE.

CE is a candy type material like Champion plastic. SE is a different type material that is more grippy than candy but not as durable. SE is an opaque and candy is see through.


Is this like the plastic used for Pro Line discs, the predesesors to Champion (Candy)?



I don't think so.



Definitely not. Proline was candy; SE wasn't. SE was similar, but not identical, to 9x and 10x KC driver plastic. SE TLs and Super Rocs were some of the sweetest-flying discs ever made, IMO. Can't wait to try the new run.

I've got a few Proline Leopards and early 4x JK Pro Valkyrie (them white ones) that don't feel as if they're candy plastic, not see through that's for sure, they're still made in candy plastic??

Wynne

Dave, since I have been reading another thread where the discussion is about the best selling disc of all time I thought I would just ask you. I was wondering if you knew what your all time best/most selling disc was?

Just checked my discs/ SE=Speciel edition and the first "generation" KC and JK Pro seems to be made of almost the same plastic? Since 02 ( :confused: ... I think) the JK and KC Proline are made from Candy like the Champion Line.
To do it a bit more komplex there were two generations of KC Proline (Up until 7xKC first generation and 8x to 10x second generation), but it seems its just the hotstamps that differ, the plastic feels the same. Then with 11x came the candy.
Dave, a comment?

Winter greetings! ;)

The 8x to 10x time could be considered the second generation but I know that is when the plastic started to change. The 9x teebirds that I throw feel like the SE type plastic whereas the 10x that I have has more of the candy type feel. I believe that they started mixing the SE and candy plastic during the 10x.

Our all time best seller is Aviar P&A

We never put SE in Candy type plastic, but we have put candy in SE type plastic to toughen it up. The original candy plastic had more filler in it so it wasn't as clear as they are now.

Yeah...I have couple of the first run of the SE TL and that plastic is the shizzle. Super grippy and durable. I would love to have that plastic back.

Is this "Pro Aviar" a JK, KC or a new SE disc? Thanks.

when are those SE rocs gonna be out?? how are they stabilitywise compared to the 11x KC rocs? thanks.

The Pro Aviar is a driver mold out of SE type plastic.. Stable but not overly. The Pro Roc should be available Mar 1. Roc is overstable in tests.

I love you, man. :) :) :)

thats awesome dave! can't wait to try the new old discs.

When will the Pro Aviar be available? That sounds like something that may replace my 10x aviars.

Is a driver mold the mold used for KC aviars (big bead, correct)? Can I assume that if it is SE plastic, the disc will be relatively stiff?

Pro Aviar just needs to be stamped and shipped. Probably about two weeks, I would guess. It will be relatively stiff, but no more so than a driver aviar was or the new Classic is.

Dave you rock, thanks agian for answering all our crazy questions. one more about the SE plastic. I have a few of the valks and leopards (with the bar stamp that says "special edition") is that the same plastic used for this new batch? or is it tweaked a bit? thanks

when will the orc be molded in that coolguy clear candy plastic?

Don't know if I missed it or not.... but what's the status of the Champion XD ?

when will the orc be molded in that coolguy clear candy plastic?



It already is.

Is the SE plastic similar to the plastic with SE Soft Rhyno?
Also, what discs will be made in this plastic?
Thanks Dave!

Dave said they were going to make, teebirds, aviars, rocs, valks, leopards, and possibly beasts, orcs, and vikes.

i think thats all i saw posted so far...how am i doing?

jaymo, it is a version of it. In reality, the SE stuff is always being tweaked a little. It still is not in its final form, but close.

Most importantly where can we get the New SE Rocs on March 1st?? Are they fundraiser discs?
Thanks,
Matt

yeah i second that....(about the SE rocs)

Bite your tongue Matt! :p I think I've had enough of "fund raiser" discs for a while! ;) But I'm looking forward to these new SE Rocs! :D rWc :cool:

Don't know if I missed it or not.... but what's the status of the Champion XD ?



I am also wondering about the Champion XD

Dave, thank you for the Orc! Do you know if Barry or Ken like it and do you think it may become the Ken Climo or Barry Schultz Orc? ... Or maybe the Juliana Korver Orc?

Did you know you had something special when this baby was on the drawing board? :D

Dave-
Is there anywhere I can get misprinted Innova Discs? Just curious, drop some info on me!

Check out Discovering the World. I believe it's www.dtworld.com (http://www.dtworld.com) Champion discs for $8! And I think having just the X-out stamp on a disc is kinda cool.

I think after this year it could be the Brian Schweberger Orc! There are already tales surfacing of 600' drives :D Nice work Dave! I'm hearing rave reviews :cool:

I think after this year it could be the Brian Schweberger Orc! There are already tales surfacing of 600' drives :D Nice work Dave! I'm hearing rave reviews :cool:



I definetly agree with that.

Yeah. And he was sayin' a few months ago that he was gonna play with THREE discs. And that wasn't one of 'em! Nice. :D

Yeah. And he was sayin' a few months ago that he was gonna play with THREE discs. And that wasn't one of 'em! Nice. :D



LOL! The Orc hasn't even been out for 3 months! :D

I'm gonna guess... CE Firebird, CE Shark, and an Aviar of some sort...

CE Firebird, Roc, and Aviar is my guess.

What's up Matt?

OK, but where can I get misprinted DX? I'm trying to get a lot of Aviars for cheap, so I can practice putting in my backyard w/o having to retreive my discs every 6 throws!

Yeah. And he was sayin' a few months ago that he was gonna play with THREE discs. And that wasn't one of 'em! Nice. :D



When Schweb plays with only three discs, he plays with a red proline firebird, a red champion shark and a 10x kc pro aviar.

E.OG

I remember a Blue CE Shark... But that was 6 months ago...

It is a pinkish red first run champ shark with just the innova logo stamp. Very stable. This has been in his bag since sharks came out.

E.OG

Champ sharks that is...

I think after this year it could be the Brian Schweberger Orc! There are already tales surfacing of 600' drives :D Nice work Dave! I'm hearing rave reviews :cool:



I was out driving Scweb with a TL last week. :D
Maybe I should challenge him with a Roc. :D

I've got a Red disc.
The stamp on the top Says

KEN CLIMO
10X
World Champion
inside the zero of the 10 it says Clearwater Florida
Do you know what this disc is?

I've got a Red disc.
The stamp on the top Says

KEN CLIMO
10X
World Champion
inside the zero of the 10 it says Clearwater Florida
Do you know what this disc is?



Could be just about any Innova disc. I found a DX Rhyno with a similar stamp a while ago and e-mailed KC to find out the story.

According to KC, after he won his 10th World Championship, one of the FL course pros or TDs (don't recall who right now: possibly C. R. Willey???) had a bunch of DX discs made up with custom-designed "Ken Climo 10x World Champion" hot-stamps to commemorate the event. I believe there were 4 or 5 different hot-stamps.

robj, no name on the Orc just yet. Actually the Orc was a bit of a surprise. I was just trying to make a more stable Beast like disc.

DDH, don't know specifically where you would get misprints, but any dealer can buy them if they want. Ask your local dealer.

dave, its march 1st WHERES THE PRO ROC!? :D

robj, no name on the Orc just yet. Actually the Orc was a bit of a surprise. I was just trying to make a more stable Beast like disc.



The Orc is the bees knees! I'll bet it is selling like hotcakes. I guess it always helps to allow room for the unexpected. Have you heard yet if Barry, Ken, or Juliana like it?

I guess there isn't a big enough market to work on a MTA disc. Would it be difficult to make a new release of Classic Rocs at MTA weight? I'd love to try one after your suggestion that it has huge MTA potential, even if it is hard to coax.

Paul, we still have not received the artwork for the stamp unfortunately. The original scheduled date for release was March 20. when we were able to move it up to March 1, we ran into the artwork roadblock. Sorry.

thanks for the info dave.

robj, no name on the Orc just yet. Actually the Orc was a bit of a surprise. I was just trying to make a more stable Beast like disc.



Hey Dave, Can you "just try" to make a more stable Valkyrie like disc....haha....I'm not a huge fan of the wide rimmed discs.
So is the wide rim the seceret in making a disc faster and is that the future of Golf Discs?

Cheers,
Matt

Hello Dave,

Pardon me if this question has already been asked but any plans for a DX version of the Orc or Viking?

discgolftool, you should try the viking out its a little more stable than the valk.

The Viking is a more stable Valkyrie like disc for higher power players. The Viking will eventually be available in DX. We just need to get it into the molding schedule. I wouln't expect any for at least a month, maybe longer. No plans for the Orc in DX yet.

The Viking has the wider rim though, and for some reason I can't get the same snap or accuracy with the beast, monster, or viking as I can with a valk, firebird or teebird.

It just doesn't seem like there is anything between the valk and the firebird for stablity with that similar shape.

Thanks anyway...

Beast, Monster, Starfire, Orc = Deepest rim.

Valkyrie, Firebird, Viking = Shallower rim.

The viking rim is the same depth as a valkyrie. Orc is similar to a Beast.

Matt

Wide Rim = Bueno

Cool, I will have to try the Viking then...I guess I just assumed it had the wide rim because it came out around the same time as the Beast and Monster. And the Disc Guy at my course compared it to a more stable Beast and said he enjoyed the wider rim...so I never actually threw the Viking, threw Beasts and Monsters but not the Viking.

Thanks for the information.

Maybe you guys can help me with disc selection. I throw a 172 Champion Valkyrie that I easily turn over if not thrown perfectly or if there is any wind. And a 167g Firebird that I thorw very well 80% of the time but it gets a little too much fade at the end of its flight. I throw a 171 Champ TeeBird very straight, but doesn't have the distance of the Valk or Firebird. I have also been experiementing with the JLS 1.8 172g. It seems to fly like the TeeBird but slightly farther but not nearly as far as the FireBird or Valk. I perfer lighter weight drivers 167-172g. Any suggestions would be great. I have tried the Beast and Monster and would like to stay away from the Wide Rims. My distances are between 360'-400' in a field but need the straight distance for the course.

Thanks,
Matt

QJLS(easy to flip if too much power is applied)

-or-

throw a heavier valk

Dave, this new run of SE plastic is it going to be mass produced? or only available at select tournaments, and any chance we can get them up north? Thanks again.

Dave,
What about the Champion XD you were talking about in the beginning of the year?

Dave,

Curious as to what the difference between a XD and a Classic Roc? They appear very similar.

Thanks in advance for your information,
Ray :D

Originally the XD and Classic Roc were almost identical, but were made with different plastic. The XD is small bead and Roc is big bead. Now the two molds are a little different to enable the Classic to fly straight at higher speeds. The XD has gravitated from a driver originally to a putt and approach now. The Champion XD has been delayed and may possibly be replaced by the Pro XD which will be out of the SE type plastic. That makes more sense as the plastic is grippier for the touch shots that the XD is marketed for.

I would also recommend the QJLS for a thin rimmed driver. I can't throw the wide rim ones either.

Try a Teebird TL; I haven't tried the JLS/QJLS but the TL is slightly longer than the regular T. Somewhat expensive and hard to find; discnation.com has some fundraiser TLs...

A TL might be good too.

And when we talk about the QJLS, the translucent ones(recent runs) are more overstable than the old opaque QJLS.

If you want to try discraft then try an XS.

TL's, Hard to find?? are you kidding? most all teebirds i have seen except dx and my old CE are tl's.

TL's, Hard to find?? are you kidding? most all teebirds i have seen except dx and my old CE are tl's.



If that's true, you've obviously seen only a very small sample of Teebirds. 9x, 10x, and 11x KC Teebirds are regular "T" Teebirds (non-TL), as were "Transition" Teebirds, several runs of SE Teebirds and at least two runs of CE Teebirds. The only TLs currently in production are CFR.

Dave,
What would be the Flight Ratings for a JLS in Innova terms?
Is it a similar mold to a Teebird? or Teebird TL?
Thanks,
Matt

PS Any news on a Champion or Pro Gator?

Yo Dave,
Have y' all ever tryed mixing glitter into the plastic?
or how bout preserveing things, like fossils in amber?

Hey Dave, fyi, on the Orc thread (titled: "innova ork") someone pointed out:

"the Orc is rated 10 4 -2 2 on the Orc description page, but 10 4 0 2 on the printable chart pdf file...."

I think the whole rating system needs an overhaul...perhaps a universal rating system?

How far off is the Champ XD? and the SE Roc?

Dave,
If you get the Pro Rocs done before the E.I.E.I.O.
this weekend, would be great if anybody from Innova was planning to come down for Tournament could begin down a bunch. Could probably use some more Orcs too.
Let me know and I'll place an order.

Point taken Fore, my plastic expereince is somewhat limited. It's just that here in western Co the majority of all teebirds are TL's and not T's.

i love throwing, but rarely see tl's. if you want to buy one, it takes some research and a little extra $.

i love throwing, but rarely see, tl's. if you want to buy one, it takes some research and a little extra $.

Dave,
A SE XD sure sounds good. I'm hoping for that one.

dgt, the JLS is most similar to our Leopard. I think the JLS is slightly more stable.

kd, yes we have done glitter and put things in discs like dollar bills and baseball cards and hall of fame cards. Just messing around. Very labor intensive.

thanks robj, the -2 rating is wrong. It was actually supposed to be -1/2, but our guys didn't like half.

DG, the champion XD might not happen at this time in favor of the SE type plastic that would be called Pro. The Pro (SE) Roc just needs to be hotstamped. Hopefully only a few days.

Ah, to live in a place where all the teebirds are TL... ;)

Dave, I have a question about KC 10x Eagles: I picked up a few this weekend that were marked "E" but were obviously the "EL" mold... was this a fluke? They fly pretty nice :Dbut I don't want to rely too much on a disc that might be irreplaceable... Of course, I could always buy a big stack of em. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Kenja, I suspect it was a fluke. The Eagles are now run with the E rather than L mold.

I've got a few 10x KC ELs that are simply marked "E" as well. As Kenja says, they are sweet, but they're not part of my bag 'cuz I don't want to become addicted to 'em.

Dave, about how long will it be until these SE Rocs are available from our favorite disc retailer? Thanks, Russ C

Dave,

Same question as above concerning the SE Aviars. :)

Russ, don't know about the SE Rocs, limited availability at first but should be mainstream later in the year. I would imagine they will start to be available within a week or two.

The SE (Pro) Aviars should be available now. This depends on orders and retailers knowing about them as they are new. TeeBirds should also be available now in this SE plastic.

Dave you got some picture of these discs? We would like to know what we are buying. What does the Hot stamp say or look like, etc.....

Any idea what website or distributor's might be selling these yet Dave? Looked at several places on the net and Innova's East/West catalog's and they are not listed as of yet. sorry, always impatient.

and if this new line [pro] [se] works out--maybe we can have regular runs of the se tl, my and others fave driver of all time?

Inquiring minds from this side of the Atlantic ocean would like to know: Which mold variety will the new SE Rocs be made in? Same as KC9&11x? or KC10x? or maybe the "standard DX Rancho" mold, which I believe is slightly different from the KCs?? TIA.

Sorry, don't know what distributors, if any, have them as yet.

We are making Pro (SE) TLs now. Might only be a short run though. They look and feel great. Saw the first one today. Haven't thrown it.

Peter, the Pro Rocs were made from the standar DX Rancho mold, which is the more stable version.

wow innova is gonna convert alot of discraft X-WASP followers with the Pro SE Roc! Get these things out ASAP!! :D

The SE Rocs fly sweet. Nice 'n' stable but overstable if you nose em up. Pretty hard to turn em over at all, but straight shots that hyzer at the end are common for me.

I played with an SE Aviar today. Not as stable as my old style Q Omega (opaque) but not as slightly flippy as my new P&A. pretty close to straight, didn't hyzer as much at the end as a 10X or my QOmega. faded ever so slightly. This is 275-300 ft upshots.

Will play more with it. It's nice stuff, Dave.

Matt -- has the SE plastic landed at Innova East?

AJ- Read above; yes it's landed. The real question is, when is it available?

I was wondering if the SE Rocs are going to be released as special fundraiser discs or just as another standard disc release? Thanks in advance. 8^)rWc :cool:

Matt -- has the SE plastic landed at Innova East?



No, not really. We got an advance batch, a handful for the pros to play around with. We also have the Super Rocs, waiting to be stamped, they will be available next week, I presume.

Has anybody figured out where we can get these se teebird's and aviars online yet? :confused:

Sunkingdiscs.com is taking preorders for both SE Teebirds & Aviars.

Hi Matt, Will the SE Rocs be available from ZoneDriven?

yes, I believe they'll be available for $14.99 on the site.

Matt

My short memory has me wondering if these Teebirds are T's or TL's?

real teebirds aka T's! :D

The SE (Pro) Aviars should be available now.



Dave, I'm not clear and maybe you answered this already, but I can't find it. Are these SE (Pro) Aviars a whole different disc from the KC or JK Aviars? If so, how are they different, is it just a different plastic? If not, are they KC or JK?

Lowe it is a different plastic entirely. I got a chance to throw it today and it flies similar to the JK. The feel is a lot different because of the plastic. Stiffer but still grippy. Not as grippy as the JK, but much more than the KC. The KC is stiffer. This is the disc for the people who want more grip than the KC but a stiffer disc than the JK. Don't know what the longevity is yet, but first indications are that it is more durable than the older SE plastic.

So Dave, are these new SE Teebirds "T's" or "TL's" ?? Thanks.

discndat, the first out will be Ts. We are also running TLs now and I had a chance to throw them today. They seem much more stable than the older SE type TLs.

Hi Dave,

As always thanks for taking your valuable time to answer our questions often about minutiae. On the Aviar thread at Aviars (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=151176&page=0&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1#Post151176) (#151176 - 03/07/04 07:10 AM) I asked some more detailed questions about the new Pro/SE Aviars. When you get a chance I'd appreciate hearing your answers. Thanks.

I believe the SE Teebirds are going to be TL's.

PT

So is this it for the SE roc?? a fundraiser for worlds? not that I think this is a bad idea. I was just wondering if it will be run again as a mass produced, regular run? Thanks Dave. :D

Super Rocs are available as a Iowa World's fundraiser disc at ZoneDriven.com for $15.00. Not bad I got 2 to support the event.

Dave D. are these going to be a regular production disc also?

I like the "Super Roc" Stamp it would be awesome to only have that Armored Roc, only bigger on the regular production disc.

Cheers,
Matt

Matt, these will be a regular production after the Iowa Worlds

I'm confused, this isn't the Classic Roc CFR disc? This is the new plastic Roc??

Wynne

This is the regular Roc in SE type plastic. It used to be called the Super Roc. It will be called the Pro Roc in the future.

Hi Dave,

When you get a free moment I'd appreciate a little more info on the new Pro Aviars. If you could answer a few quick questions here on the Aviars (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=145050&page=&view=&sb=5&fpart=1&vc=1&o=&PHPSESSID=) thread I'd appreciate it. (At post #151384 - 03/07/04 11:43 PM)
-Lowe

Is there any plans for another FX mold of firebirds?? Thanks

Try the new champion firebirds.

RED

All Firebirds are X mold now. If you mean in another plastic like SE; maybe. We will definitely test it.

Dave,

Thanks for the Aviar info. You are truly the Man! You get my vote for message board MVP!!

I was going to ask if the new Firebirds were FX mold. I had been throwing an old CE F FIrebird and I beat the crap out of it so I decided to replace it with a new Champion Firebird, and the thing was so stabe it was like a completlely different disc. I still don't think I'm all that used to it.

I replaced an old FX with another FX bought at the same time, same weight, same color plastic and stamp. It may take a couple of years to get this one broken in like the one I lost.

not with a little bit of TLC, go throw it really hard at a tree in your backyard for a few minutes if you wanna break in the good plastic. i've made an FX into a roller before in just a few sessions like that. :D

FX -> roller. That's a little more than I was after.

it can be fine tuned by the amount of times you slam it into the trees/posts/wall. ;)

then you slam it into a tree and its gone...all that work gone to waste

nah, it takes more than 1 wack to alter a used CE firebird. i'd say about every ten times your disc makes contact with a tree there'll be a noticeable change.

Yo Dave,
love the feel 1st run pro Av and pro TB, VERY Happy with product. A week ago I asked you a about glitter in discs, was wondering if you could put a number on how much you would charge or if it could be a possiblty? I'm ready to set it off for DG. Also, do ya' all make ce plastic drinking cups??? :) :)

sincerally kd

kd, I don't think there would be any extra charge for glitter if we could do it. Right now, it is very messy, so we don't do it in any production runs. Doing it proactically is the obstacle right now. No drinking cups. All we make is discs.

CE cups? thats good. :Ddave, i think this has already been asked but, are the new aviars the small bead mold? much thanks.

Dave, I was wondering if there was a disc in production now that is similar to the old CE F Firebird. For me that was the best forehand disc ever. It would go straight forever and fade out slowly at the end. I've tried using the new Champion Firebirds which I've learned are FX mold, and they just are a little too stable for my preferences. I have to S-curve the disc to keep it from going too far right with a forehand throw, and then that keeps me from getting the same distance. If there isn't another disc out there like the old F Firebird, is there a chance that maybe these could be run again?

Troy, FX would be the closest on the overstable side. You could try a lighter weight to compensate. The Viking would be the closest on the less stable side. That is the disc I use most for sidearm.

kd, No drinking cups. All we make is discs.



of course one could always use a disc as a drinking cup. :D

Dave,
When / will you be making DX or SE Viking's? Thx

hello dave--thanks again for answering our questions. do you know when the pro [se] TLs will hit retailers? what other discs do you have planned for this line [orc, beast]? and finally--what do you think has caused the teebirds to become more stable? i think the dx and 10x fly just about perfect [for me], and have tried 11x, champion, and cfr TL, and all seem to be slightly overstable. i heard you [or someone] remark that the new pros[se] were really stable as well. have you guys had a chance to do any testing with the new pro [se] TLs yet? hopefully that will perform similar to the 10x. thanks again

Rob, Vikings are up next after Valks are run. Don't know about the DX right now, but I think the Pro (SE) would be good. We were planning on DX, but the new pro is so good, we might just skip the DX.

Dave:

I have been seeing auctions on ebay saying you made some 11x teebirds with shadow stamp? Whats this shadow stamp?

Check here Dave Shadow Stamp (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3666162791&category=20851)

looks to me like somebody just removed the stamp.

I have been seeing auctions on ebay saying you made some 11x teebirds with shadow stamp? Whats this shadow stamp?




Call me cynical, but I have a "shadow stamped" dyed Champion Leopard, dyed Proline Beast, and dyed Q-Omega. Amazing what you can do with acetone.

Dear Josh -

The stamps were removed. It's a process we are testing at Innova in South Carolina.

Take care,

Harold

Harold,
What's the point of removing the stamp, for the guys doing the dye work? Would a "Ghost Stamp" eliminate the need to go thru the process of removing the stamp later?

It's been a long day in the sun, I don't get the idea. Thx

No my point was the seller of that disc is telling me that Innova is making the Ghost Stamp. Understand? I know how to remove the stamp myself. This seller is saying Innova is doing it. I want to know if this seller is lying or telling the truth?

Harold how do you know this? You work at Innova? I will call both Innova sites and find out myself.

Actually this was a question for Dave. So I will wait on his response.

hmmm... does Harold Duvall work at Innova....

Umm, yeah!

He's been part of Innova since the beginning.

The discs were stamped with a regular stamp, then dyed, then the stamp was removed. The dyeing process was damaging certain foils, so, instead of selling them as regular discs, we removed the stamps.

Matt

discgolf,
Settle down, my question was to Harold. I was wondering why Innova would stamp the disc then remove the stamp. That's the point I didn't understand, why would the mfr. go thru the trouble. An answer from Harold is as good as Dave.

I didn't realize that. Thanks!

Got a chance to see the first run Pro Aviar and Teebirds this weekend. That plastic seems very similar to the plastic that was used in the Tachyons. Are they similar?

Ray :cool:

In the case of this ghost stamp, I didn't know the answer, but Harold, (my partner and owner of Carolina Flying Discs) did know, as did Matt. I work out west in production and Matt and Harold work in South Carolina. Much of the decorating is done in South Carolina, especially ghost stamping, bottom side stamping, and full color processing.

Cool to know Dave. I was just curious, cause I have not seen them yet in our area. Again most be a new thing like you said.

hey dave --i posted a few questions about 10 posts back--my main one was about pro[se] TLs--when do you expect these to hit retailers? thank you again

You can buy them right now at Zonedriven. As well, you can get the SE Aviar and SE Roc.

The "Pro" Teebirds now available on the Zone Driven site are "T" molds. XTerraMatt said that the "TL's" would be out in a week or two.

Erick

You're right, sorry.

Vegas,

BTW,

That CE Teebird T fly's sweet. TY (Ebay a while back red 174) :cool:

Hey dave, Matt, whomever.... did you guys change the rating of the Orc to 0/+2 b/c before it was -0.5/+2, just wanted to know if this was how innova percieved the Orc after further testing. thanks. :D

I don't know what it is now, but I rated it a -1/2 and still stand by that. I think we are trying not to do 1/2s so it was rounded to 0.

I think if you are going to try and be accurate for comparitive purposes, you will have to break into more than just 1/2's. With so many drivers so close in performance, a 1-10 scale divided on even numbers won't be sufficient.

yeah thanks dave, you can only do what you can do.... If they refuse to listen to you well then thats thier mistake!

Dave, now that you are producing the new SE "pro" aviars, will you still be making the stiff KC "pro" aviars?
Thanks!

dave, I remember you saying the reproduction of the Pro line Gremlin might be coming back...is this still in the works?

Pro line Gremlin is not in the works at present

Eddie, the KC Pro Aviar will still be produced

Dave:

I was wondering if the FL's would be in production of the new SE plastic anytime soon?

Howdy Dave,

Speaking of disc ratings, the Innova site lists the Gator in one spot as 0/+2 and in another as +1/+2. Which is accurate in your opinion please?


Multi-Purpose Disc - Gator
Plastics:
DX

Diameter:
21.2cm

Weights:
150 class - 175 grams
The Gator is a mid-range power control disc that delivers pin-point accuracy even in adverse wind conditions. This is the disc for high power throwers who need to control their accuracy.



Speed: 5 Glide: 2 Turn: 0 Fade: +2







Stingray 5 5 -3 +1 DX
Cobra 5 4 -2 +2 DX, Champion
Panther 5 3 -2 +1 DX, Champion
Gremlin 5 3 0 +2 DX, Champion
Spider 5 3 0 +1 DX, Champion
Gator 5 2 +1 +2 DX
Roc 4 4 0 +2 DX, KC Pro, Champion**
Shark 4 4 0 +1 DX, Champion
Wolf 3 3 -2 0 DX




Thanks,

No plans for the SE type FL soon.