PDGA Members: Preview Proposed Rule Changes
PDGA Members: Preview Proposed Rule Changes
Public comment opens for rule, competition revisions
As disc golf continues to grow at an exponential rate, revisions and fine-tuning are sometimes required to update our rules and competition standards to stay ahead of the game as equipment, courses, tournament management and technology continue to evolve.
Sometimes the changes are minor, and sometimes they are more profound.
The process is an in-depth look at the current rules and regulations of disc golf with several contributors having input on any proposed changes. Here is that process:
- The Rules Committee and Competition Committee receive and review feedback throughout the year.
- The committees deliberate internally and decide which items to recommend for approval by the PDGA Board of Directors.
- The committees’ initial recommendations are sent to the board of directors for review and feedback.
- The board reviews the recommendations and then sends their questions and comments back to the committees.
- The committees make their final revisions and submits them to the board for approval.
- The board votes to approve or deny each of the submissions.
While a countless number of hours have gone into this process to this point for the recommended changes to the 2022 PDGA Official Rules of Disc Golf and the PDGA Competition Manual, this year the PDGA membership will have the opportunity to review the revisions and provide feedback before they become official.
But there is an official process for doing so.
Members are asked to email their comments and recommendations regarding the proposed rules changes below to [email protected], where the replies will be read, considered, and cataloged. No other rules changes will be considered for the 2022 rules update.
The public comment window will be available until Thursday, August 19, 2021.
Any changes to the revisions resulting from feedback received during this public comment period will then be sent to the board for approval and will take effect on January 1, 2022, when they will appear in the official, online version of the PDGA Official Rules of Disc Golf and the PDGA Competition Manual for Disc Golf Events.
With record participation across the sport, these changes – from minor tweaks to complete re-writes – are necessary to keep pushing the growth of the sport to even higher levels.
Here is another chance to let your voice be heard.
Proposed Changes for 2022
Distractions No Longer Reset the 30-Second Clock; Bathroom Breaks Allowed
Instead of the nebulous term “distraction,” this change clarifies that the 30-second clock resets only when the playing area stops being clear (and that the clock does, in fact, reset in that instance). In other words, if a dog runs into the fairway, or if a pedestrian crosses the fairway, the clock resets and begins again at 30 seconds when the playing area becomes clear again. However, if a car blows its horn, or a dog barks, or a gust of wind blows into your face, the clock continues to run.
802.03 Excessive Time
A. A player has taken excessive time if they are present and have not thrown within 30 seconds
- after the previous player has thrown; and,
- after they have had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at and determine the lie; and,
- after they are next in the throwing order; and,
- during which the playing area is clear
and free of distractions.
B. A player who takes excessive time receives a warning for the first violation. A player who takes excessive time after having been warned for it during the round receives one penalty throw. See 811.F.5 for a player who is absent when it is their turn to throw.
C. A player may request extra time from the group to take a bathroom break. If the player does not return in a reasonable time, the player is considered missing for the hole and receives a score of par plus 4 for the hole.
Simplified Mandatory Rule
This change makes ruling on a mandatory a simple question: did the disc enter where it shouldn’t? Because the new rule does not require the disc to come to rest to make a determination, it makes the player call easier. If the disc broke the vertical plane the mandatory restricts, it missed the mandatory and players proceed to the drop zone or previous lie, as the hole’s rules specify. The below 804.01 replaces both the current 804.01 and 804.02.
804.01 Mandatory Routes
A. A mandatory route restricts the path the disc may take to the target.
B. The restricted space is a vertical plane marked by one or more objects or other markers which define the edges of the space.
C. If a throw clearly and completely enters a restricted space, the player receives one penalty throw. The lie for the next throw is the drop zone for that mandatory. If no drop zone has been designated, the lie for the next throw is the previous lie.
Options after Out-Of-Bounds
This change provides the player more flexibility in marking a lie where they can take a legal stance after throwing OB, maximizes the standard amount of relief at one meter total, rather than one meter from any given OB line, and clarifies how OB lines that create corners or acute angles should play. If your thrown disc is OB, you are restricted to a maximum of one meter from the OB line, but you can choose any angle to draw the one-meter line, so you will be able to take a legal stance behind your mini. If your thrown disc is within 1 meter of OB, the new version of 806.02.E keeps the “perpendicular” restriction for near-OB discs. However, if your disc is within 1m of a corner, you can alternately use a 1m line from the corner through the center of your thrown disc.
D. A player whose disc is out-of-bounds receives one penalty throw. The player may play the next throw from:
- The previous lie; or,
- A lie designated by a marker disc placed on the playing surface
at any point on a one-meter line that is perpendicular to the out-of-bounds line atup to one meter away from the point where the disc was last in-bounds; or, If a perpendicular lie as described above is not available, a lie designated by a marker disc placed on the playing surface at the point that is nearest to where the disc was last in-bounds, and that is up to one meter away from any out-of-bounds area.
The above options for an out-of-bounds area may be limited by the Director only with prior approval from the PDGA Tour Manager.
At the Director's discretion, the player may additionally choose to play the next throw from:
4. Within the designated drop zone; or,
5. A lie designated by a marker disc placed on the playing surface at any point on a one-meter line that is perpendicular to up to one meter away from the point on the out-of-bounds line at the point that is nearest to the position of the disc.
E. If the position of the thrown disc is in-bounds and within one meter of an out-of-bounds line, the lie may be relocated to a new lie at any point on a one-meter line that extends perpendicularly from
the nearest that point on the out-of-bounds line and passes through the thrown disc. Alternatively, when the thrown disc is within one-meter of a corner, the lie may be relocated on a one-meter line that extends from that corner through the thrown disc.
Completing the Hole
This simplifies the rule. The only issue is now the status of the disc at rest. If the disc is in the basket, it’s a made putt. This generally makes the rule more generous, as it allows for wedged discs, discs that entered through the top, or discs that entered through the side. Discs hanging or balanced on the tray still count as completing the hole, as do discs hanging in the chains. Discs resting on top do not count.
807 Completing the Hole
B. In order to complete a hole with a basket target, the thrower must release the disc and it must
enter the target above the top of the tray and below the bottom of the chain support, and come to rest supported by the target tray or the chains below the chain support.
PDGA Membership and Eligibility
Due to the increased popularity of sanctioned events, the PDGA believes that now is the time to extend the current membership requirement to players competing in B-Tiers, as well as retaining that requirement for A-Tiers and higher. This will provide additional benefit to our active members, who no longer will need to compete with non-members or non-current members at large regional tournaments, while allowing non- current members and non-members the ability to continue to compete at the C-Tier level and below.
Additionally, it will ensure that players at B-Tier and above are accurately tracked with regard to whether they have accepted cash and whether they are subject to disciplinary action. Finally, players must have, at a minimum, a PDGA member number – current or not – to accept cash at any PDGA event other than leagues.
1.01 Player Eligibility
A. All members in good standing of the PDGA are eligible to compete in any division for which they qualify based upon class (Professional or Amateur), age, gender, and player rating. Exceptions must be approved in advance by the PDGA Tour Manager. Please see Section 2: Division Qualifications for more specific information on division eligibility.
B. Membership Requirements:
- Current PDGA Membership is required to compete in any Major, Elite Series/National Tour, A- Tier, or B-Tier event.
- In all other PDGA-sanctioned events, players who are not current members may compete by paying a non-member fee (not required for Leagues, see 1.14.C.1).
This fee is required for all players except players competing in a Junior division.
- In PDGA-sanctioned events which permit non-members or non-current members to compete by paying a non-member fee, such a fee will not apply to players competing in Junior divisions or where the requirement has been waived by the PDGA's Director of Event Support (e.g. WGE or Competition Endowment Program events).
1.10 Distribution of Prizes
A. Any player accepting cash in a Pro division at a PDGA-sanctioned event (except Leagues, see 1.14.C.2) must have a PDGA number for tracking purposes prior to the start of the event (players receiving a PDGA number after event registration must alert the TD prior to the event.) Non PDGA numbered players are only eligible for Trophies, and any cash payouts at or below that place would move down one place causing an additional place to be paid.
B. An Amateur playing in a Pro division may NOT accept merchandise in lieu of cash in
Major, National Tour, and A-Tier A-Tier and above events; they may only accept a trophy (if one is available). All cash payouts at or below that place would move down one place causing an additional place to be paid.
Caddies and Youth Safety
For the safety of all youth present at the event, and out of fairness and consideration to all competitors, the PDGA now requires that caddies, like unaccompanied minor players, be at least 13 years of age. This requires three linked changes, listed below.
3.05 Carts, Caddies, and Groups
B. A caddie is a person who carries a player's equipment or provides other assistance during the round. Players may designate one caddie at a time during their round. A caddie must be at least 13 years of age and must comply with the same PDGA Rules of Play and PDGA Competition Manual their player must follow, including the dress code, although a caddie need not be a PDGA member nor Certified Official.
C. Players choosing to use a caddie will be solely responsible for their caddie’s conduct from the two-minute
warning signal until the player’s card is turned in. Any penalties for misconduct by a caddie (as defined in this section and in CM 3.03, Player Misconduct) will be applied to both player and caddie.
1.13 Youth Safety
A. Parents/guardians must be responsible for their children during PDGA-sanctioned events. Neither the PDGA staff nor the event staff are responsible for the children of tournament players, spectators, etc. during events. Parents/guardians may not leave unaccompanied children at or near the scoring area, clubhouse, or any other tournament venue. Any child younger than 13 years of age who is accompanying any player group
and is not a caddie must be supervised by an adult who is not part of that player group and not a caddie.
D. Failure to adhere to the parent/guardian responsibilities outlined in section 1.13 shall
may result in the disqualification or removal of the parent/guardian, and their accompanying junior player, from the event site by the tournament director. offending player, caddie, or guardian. Junior players under 13 years of age whose guardian has been removed, may continue to play if a substitute guardian volunteers to take their place with the consent of the removed guardian.
The PDGA previously has not explicitly regulated the use of ghost cards. This addition to the Competition Manual makes it clear that ghost cards are only to be used in emergencies and must follow these procedures in the rare instances where their use is warranted.
1.06 Grouping and Sectioning
K. A ghost card is a designation for a secondary card of players that is assigned a starting hole already occupied by a card of players. Ghost cards are only to be used to resolve emergency situations, such as a hole being unexpectedly rendered unplayable by flooding, downed power line, or other circumstances outside the control of the Tournament Director.
- A Ghost card should consist of no more than four players.
- A Ghost card will always tee second on the hole as the lowered-numbered hole for both first- round groupings (1.06.B) and subsequent rounds (1.06.D).
- Ghost cards should start on a shorter length hole after a longer/more difficult hole to minimize the impact on course-flow and speed of play.
The PDGA has concluded that, like A-Tiers, B-Tiers must also have a heightened requirement for non- playing Tournament staff.
New Tour Standards Text:
- A-Tier: the TD and Assistant TD (if one exists) of record may NOT play in their event; they must both be non-playing officials.
- B-Tier: Either the TD or the Assistant TD (if one exists) of record must be a non-playing official.
This is no longer a requirement that can Neither of these requirements may be waived.
Note: these changes would also be reflected in Table 1: PDGA Tier Standards Chart of the Tour Standards.
803.02 Relief from Obstacles
a large solid obstacle an obstacle physically prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, or from marking a disc above or below the playing surface, the player may mark a new lie on the line of play immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play.
805.01 Establishing a Position
C. If a disc comes to rest above
or below the playing surface, its position is on the playing surface directly above or below the disc. If there is no playing surface below the disc, then its position is on the playing surface directly above the disc.
H. The director may announce relief greater than one meter for particular out-of-bounds areas on a hole.
E. If there is disagreement about the score a player reports, the group reviews the hole and attempts to arrive at the correct score. If the group cannot reach consensus on the player's score, they seek the help of an Official or the Director as soon as is practical. If all players in the group agree that a score is incorrect, the score may be corrected before the scorecard is
turned in submitted.
F. All players are responsible for
returning submitting their scorecards within 30 minutes of the completion of a when their group has finished the round , which is when the last group on the course has completed their final hole and has had reasonable time to turn in their scorecard. Failure to turn in a scorecard on time results in the addition of two penalty throws to the score of each player listed on the late scorecard. A player whose scorecard is not submitted on time receives two penalty throws.
G. After the scorecard has been
turned in submitted , the total score as recorded is final, except for the following circumstances:
- Penalty throws may be added or removed by the Director up until the Director declares the tournament over, or all awards have been distributed.
- If the total score or any hole score is incorrect, improperly recorded, or missing, two penalty throws are added to the correct total score. Those penalty throws are not added when the score has been adjusted for other violations determined after the player had
turned insubmitted an otherwise correct scorecard.
809.01 Abandoned Throw
B. If a drop zone has been designated for abandoned throws on the hole, the player may throw from the drop zone instead of the previous lie.
D. It is a violation if a player or their equipment interferes with the course of their own thrown disc. The throw and one penalty throw are counted in the player's score; the player continues play from the previous lie. Any other penalty throws incurred by the throw are disregarded. If a throw is interfered with by request of the thrower, that is considered the same as a player interfering with their own throw.
D. A thrown disc whose course was intentionally altered is given a position at the point of contact, as agreed on by the group. The thrower may choose to play from the resulting lie, or to abandon the throw without penalty, in which case the original throw is not counted in the player’s score.
E. A player who intentionally interferes with a disc in any of the following ways receives two penalty throws:
- Altering the course of a thrown disc (other than to prevent injury); or,
- Moving or obscuring a thrown disc or marker disc (other than in the process of identification, retrieval, marking, or as allowed by 810.H).
F. If a player or their equipment interferes with their own throw, the player is assessed one penalty throw. The disc is played where it first comes to rest. See 810.E for intentional interference.
5. Missed Hole Due to Late Arrival or Absence 5. Absent. If a player is not present at the start of the round for their assigned group, the player is considered absent and does not play the hole. A player is also considered absent if the player has not played the previous hole and is not present when their group is ready to start on a hole. The absent player receives a score of par plus four for each hole not played. to throw when they are next in the throwing order, and remains absent for at least 30 seconds, the player does not make any more throws on the hole. The player's score for the hole is par plus four. Par is the score that an expert disc golfer would be expected to make on a given hole with errorless play under ordinary weather conditions, as Par is determined by the Director. See Section 1.05.B of the Competition Manual for determining late arrival.
6. Missing. If a player was present with the group and is now missing when it is their turn to throw, the player is given 30 seconds to rejoin the group. If the player remains missing for that time, then the player is considered absent for the hole and receives a score of par plus 4 for the hole.
6. Omitted Hole. The round has been completed, and the player has neglected to play one or more holes. The player receives a score of par plus four for each unplayed hole.
7. Incorrect Hole. The player has completed a hole that is not part of the course for that round, in place of a hole that is part of the course for the round. Two penalty throws are added to the player's score for the hole.
8. Extra Hole. The player has completed a hole that is not part of the course for that round. Two penalty throws are added to the player's total score. Throws made on the extra hole are not counted.
9. Wrong Starting Hole or Group. The player has begun play on a hole or in a group other than the one to which they were assigned. The player continues play, and two throws are added to the player's score for the first hole played. The player must find their assigned group to begin play. Any throws made by a player in the wrong group are disregarded. The player is subject to penalties for being absent from their assigned group.
11. Wrong Starting Hole. The group has begun play on a hole other than the one to which they were assigned. If any player in the group makes more than one throw on the hole, the entire group has misplayed the hole. The group completes the hole and each player adds two penalty throws to their score for the hole. Otherwise, the players who have made a single throw each receive a one throw penalty and the throw is disregarded. The group then proceeds to the correct hole to begin their round.
1.05 Practice Rounds, Beginning Play, Late Arrivals
B. 2. Staggered Starts or Tee Times (rounds where groups start one after another on a certain hole): The player shall start at the time announced by the Tournament Director. Players are recommended to check in with the starter ten minutes before their tee time. Players may practice until the starter indicates the two-minute
warning signal for their group provided their practice does not distract players on the course.
D. It is the sole responsibility of the player to know the course rules, be at their starting hole, and ready to play in time for the start of their round.
F. Late-arriving players, for either Shotgun or Tee Time rounds, are responsible for checking with the TD, Tournament Central, or the Tee Time Starter to learn their correct starting group and are solely responsible for starting play with that playing group or the group created by the TD due to the player’s absence. The player will receive the par plus four score for each hole that the playing group has either completed or finished teeing on.
Playing with any other group constitutes an attempt to gain a competitive advantage and is a disqualification. Beginning play with a group other than the one to which the player was assigned is governed by Rule 811.F.10.
H. Paper scorecards must always be made available to each playing group, regardless of what the Tournament Director has declared to be the official method of scoring.
1.08 Reduction of Field Size (Cuts)
A. The field may be reduced (cut) for a semi-finals or finals at the discretion of the Tournament Director, provided that is announced
well in advance of prior to opening player registration for the event. The only exception may be due to the PDGA Mid-Event Weather Suspension & Cancellation Guidelines Policy being invoked to finish an event.
B. Except where noted below in 1.09.D, final ties for first place in any division must be broken by sudden-death play.
or for the reduction of field size Also, if ties are being broken for the reduction of field size, they must be broken by sudden-death play. Sudden-death play shall begin with hole number one unless a different hole or series of holes is designated by the Tournament Director prior to the start of the tournament. Under no circumstances should any other method such as hot round, head-to-head scores, etc. be used to break a tie for first place.
- Sudden-death play shall begin, wherever possible, on the same course as the previous round on hole number one unless a different course, hole, or series of holes is designated by the Tournament Director prior to the start of the tournament. Team Play must use the same format as the previous round.
- The specific order in which players tee off for sudden-death play shall be determined by random draw (e.g., numbered playing cards, selecting tee positions from a hat, etc.)
- In the case of a tied hole during sudden-death play, the teeing order for the next hole will rotate from the order used on the just completed hole.
Players are allowed to compete in only one division per event unless the event has different divisions competing on different days and is listed as two distinct entries in the PDGA calendar. Players may only register and compete in their scheduled round(s) once per event, unless the event:
- has different divisions competing on different days; and
- those days are listed as distinct entries in the PDGA calendar.
F. Professional players playing in a Professional division compete for money. Amateur players playing in a Professional division may only accept money by becoming a Professional, or they may decline money and accept only a trophy (if one is available) to retain their Amateur status (See Section 1.10 A&B Distribution of Prizes). However, Amateurs who accept cash at PDGA Leagues do not become a Professional or lose their Amateur status by doing so (see 1.14.3).
Rules Sheets Now Required
It is the event’s responsibility to provide, at minimum, a specific course rules sheet to every player so they can play the course correctly and as intended.
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I have ran multiple B tier
I have ran multiple B tier events over the years, and I do not appreciate being forced to not play in those events anymore. I am already an uncompensated volunteer. If you are going to force TDs to not play in their B tier events- then is there going to be a compensation package for them?
Please reconsider this policy! If a TD is not able to run an event properly- then they shouldn't be a TD. All this policy does is hurt the good TDs that have been donating time to the PDGA and community for years.
As a fellow TD, your job as
As a fellow TD, your job as TD, is to run a successful event for the competing players. If you feel the need to play, then assign an Assistant. But otherwise, I would tell you the reason you host events, is for the players, not for yourself.
I think personally, you are looking at this rule backwards. Rules aren't made for 1 person, they are made for the group/the many.
@jeremyh56561. I've ran over
@jeremyh56561. I've ran over 60 PDGA tournaments now. When I work as a TD, I work. When I play as a player, I play. I don't do both. If you feel like you hae to, then down grade the event to a C-tier because the other players are playing to have a quality B-tier event which means the TD is available at all times during play as needed.
I’ve played 140 tournaments,
I’ve played 140 tournaments, I’ve ran about 10 myself. I will be the first to tell you that Jeremy’s tournaments are the cleanest, best run tournaments I’ve ever played, and he plays in everyone of them.
TD’s get no compensation from the PDGA directly, and if they are going to take perks away from the TD’s without adding compensating them, why should the TD’s continue to run higher tier events?
Currently, there is nothing stopping TD’s from running a C-tier with $2000 added cash. The PDGA benefits more from B-tiers because of increased sanctioning and per player fees, so why would a TD take more money out of the players pockets in order to pay the PDGA more money.
What exactly does a TD need
What exactly does a TD need to be present at all times during play for? Serious question? The PDGA literally has a rule to help facilitate any questions or controversies during the round- it's called play a provisional, and then ask the TD after the round. I've seen live DGPT events where the card plays a provisional- and those are Majors- not B-tier events.
So once again- I am asking very seriosuly- what exactly is the TD required for, during the round? In my opinion- if you are a TD, and do a good enough job communicating with your players before the event- and properly mark OBs, and utilize tournament manager correctly, etc- there shouldn't be much of any need for you during the actual rounds.
"Missing. If a player was
"Missing. If a player was present with the group and is now missing when it is their turn to throw, the player is given 30 seconds to rejoin the group. If the player remains missing for that time, then the player is considered absent for the hole and receives a score of par plus 4 for the hole."
According to this rule it would be possible for a person to "quit" a hole.
Lets say a person is playing hole 17 on usdgc and misses the island many times and is destined to take a 7+, he/she could intentionally not show up when their supposed to throw and automatically take a 7.
If I understood this correctly it doesn't make sense and the rule NEEDS to be changed!!
If it can be shown the player
If it can be shown the player intentionally missed the hole that would be a disqualifiable offense. This rule would only apply for accidents or bathroom or something beyond the players control, if I understand it correctly.
: ) :
"It is the event’s
"It is the event’s responsibility to provide, at minimum, a specific course rules sheet to every player so they can play the course correctly and as intended."
I think that this should be waived if the tournament has zero rule changes from established printed course signage. If possible I would rather tell players to "read the signs" than potentially have conflicting rules sent in an email. Many signs rely on pictures to establish an idea, describing the idea with the written word can lead to differences in interpretation. Both can't be correct so whatever is sent out becomes the rule and all course signage taken with a grain of salt from here on out.
It's almost like asking to provide a caddie book with pictures of the holes and their rules, but not quite going that far because it's a big ask at smaller events. So we settle for a middle ground that can bring it's own level of confusion to the table.
@Morgan — You can have a
@Morgan — You can have a “rules sheet” that says “the signs on all holes have the correct rules for each; please refer to the hole signs for current rules.” In fact it could be an electronic document attached or linked to tour event page — as I understand it.
“B-Tier: Either the TD or the
“B-Tier: Either the TD or the Assistant TD (if one exists) of record must be a non-playing official.”
Does this mean that only one TD must not play even if the tournament is using multiple courses simultaneously or must there be one TD (or assistant) not playing at each venue?
Flex start exception: If the purpose is to assure that at least one TD is available to officiate at all times during a tournament, please change the language to, “at least one TD must not be playing at any one time during a tournament” to allow two or more TDs to rotate as the non-playing official and give multiple TDs the ability to play during a single venue, flex start.
MANDO: Defined, flagged mando lines should be encouraged to avoid ambiguity. Where a disc comes to rest should remain the determining factor. ie. We have a double mando with bushes on either side that will often sling a disc backwards mere inches after it crossed the flagged mando line.
Bathroom Break: Please specify. Though a male can take 2 minutes to find the nearest tree and urinate, most women and men who need to do more than just urinate do require a ”bathroom”. Perhaps, “a reasonable amount of time to and from the closest available facility” which would technically make a “reasonable amount of time” 10 minutes or more on most courses.
It’s probably best to leave it to the TD to specify an exact amount of time allotted and include that in the event details/rules for it to be a “clock” enforceable penalty. Otherwise, the decision is best left up to the to card as to when they are ready to play on and give a player Par +4 for not being present.
Why in 806.02, should a new lie be marked in any direction from a designated point of OB and yet the “perpendicular” language for optional relief from OB remain? Whatever you do, please make the language describing the direction for marking relief from OB the same, wether optional or not, to avoid confusion.
Also, on the language of OB
Also, on the language of OB vs "perpendicular", no where in the proposed rule change does it say, no closer to the basket now. I feel this is a mistake waiting to happen. Also, could create more animosity/anxiety about where spots are chosen
"B. Membership Requirements:
"B. Membership Requirements:
Current PDGA Membership is required to compete in any Major, Elite Series/National Tour, A- Tier, or B-Tier event."
I do not agree with the potential mandatory membership to play B teir event. It effects the players that play recreationally or those who are not financially stable to pay the extra $50-75 per membership. In my opinion, this rule change will slow down/slump the interest into events.
I disagree. Why do players
I disagree. Why do players compete at Majors over A tiers? Publicity and notability. Same for B to C. C tiers are more relaxed(alcohol), TDs can withhold more. The player doesn't benefit as much because they are held to a higher event value by percentage.
And if you are serious about a B tier to play, you should be willing to accept being serious costs more then a weekend funday event.
I feel like the people who want C Tiers, are different then those that want A tiers. And B tiers should be an adjustment between the 2
I agree with Jeremy. We
I agree with Jeremy. We volunteer a bunch of our personal time and $ to run B-Tiers, pay a $75 sanctioning fee and collect $3 per person for the PDGA. If you are implementing a rule that a TD, in good standing, can't compete in his/her own event, thus restricting them from possibly cashing, what are you willing to offer as compensation? Is the PDGA willing to give up the $3 fee per person as payback for the time and effort put in to making a B-Tier successful? That would be a minimum of $216 on a 72 person field. Make it an even $300 and I MIGHT consider it. Otherwise that nest egg the PDGA is sitting on is going to see significant changes when they start losing VOLUNTEER TDs.
If you are forgetting that
If you are forgetting that you run events for the other 71 players in the field, then maybe you are hosting events for the wrong reasons.
Also, the new rule has given you a way to play. Assign an Assistant TD who isn't playing.
Look at it this way, how would you feel playing against a TD who makes a rule call in their favor against you? The TD can't rule objectively when their own play hangs in the balance.
Are TDs supposed to be paid?😀
Are TDs supposed to be paid?😀 I thought we volunteer all of our time and even sometimes have to spend our own money at times all for the benefit of everyone else.
Dude, you realize that 801.02
Dude, you realize that 801.02.F already prohibits Officials who are playing from acting as an Official for players in their divison, don't you?
You do realize if you don't
You do realize if you don't have a non playing TD you can't do this?
You DO reaize that a playing
You DO reaize that a playing TD can (in fact, owing to 801.02.F is obligated to) appoint an official, either non-playing or from another division, to make rulings in the TD's division, don't you?
It's not hard to make some
It's not hard to make some money while TDing an event. It's well past time to stop viewing TD's as volunteers. I think this is a needed rule change.
Agreed, its a professional
Agreed, its a professional sport and it seems everyone makes a little money except for the TD's. We know that it is also the person that does the most work from start to finish.
If the only money you are
If the only money you are making in a tournament is the cash from winning, I would argue you are not doing the Financial numbers correctly. In the 60+ PDGA events I've ran, I've only gone into the red on two of them. Both of them were dropped from my schedule the next year. I make zero qualms that I make money from TD'ing events. If someone has a problem with that, they can TD their own 9+ events per year. It's work. A lot of work. It also takes skill. There are some events I won't play in because the TD doesn't have the skill at running an organized event that I expect them to have if I'm paying money to play in. Work + skill = deserved to be paid.
The proposes new mandatory
The proposed new mandatory rule seems impossible. You cannot judge the disc going through a virtual plane when everybody is around the teeing area. Only with spotters in place this may be possible but those are not always there.
I'm talking about discs hitting the ground an do a little roller on the wrong side of th mandatory or hitting something and swerving around. Very hard to judge if these discs go over the mandatory line or not. Easy to judge where they come to a rest.
Please keep it simple. Where the discs comes to a stop is a perfectly good rule.
What actual problem does this proposed rule change solve?
807 COMPLETING THE HOLE.
807 COMPLETING THE HOLE.
So I put hit the cage and hit the ground I don't hole out. Guy next to me puts hits the cage but did it with so much force he wedges in the basket from the outside it's good?
If that's a correct interpretation it's a bad rule change. They missed the put and shouldn't be rewarded for being a gorilla 😂
I agree. The rule as it
I agree. The rule as it currently stands means you have to actually make the putt instead of missing low, and by sheer luck wedging into the basket. If we're going to do something like this maybe we have a rule to count spit-outs as made putts? I have lost strokes in tournament play because my putt was too good (hits dead center, turns vertical, hits pole, bounces out). We all know what they look like, maybe we say those are in too?
Alternatively, maybe baskets should have a solid bottom or cover so there's no chance for a wedge. I also think baskets shouldn't have a hooking rim, but rungs on the basket could be welded directly to a smooth ring to avoid the "hanging" disc situation. Only thing left would be a balancing one, which we almost never see.
What is the rationale for
What is the rationale for returning to the previous rules where my soft putters thrown too low but wedging in the cage count as good? In my opinion these should not count as the putt was thrown too low and had no chance of going in the basket. I still remember rounds where turbo putters used to throw soft putters as hard as they could at the basket hoping for a wedge that would count if they threw too low.
On the other hand a putter that lands on top of the basket is still not considered good. I have always wondered why these putts did not count. I have seen several well executed putts where someone perfectly high lobs over an obstruction and the putter is prevented from going in the basket because it can't fall through the top. Yet technically it is supported by the basket within the vertical plane of the cage. In my opinion the top of the basket should be considered part of the supporting structure of the chains and as long as the disc comes to a rest within or above the vertical outline of the cage and is touching the basket it should count.
The rules were changed previously to allow a disc hanging on the *outside* of the cage as holing out eventhough no part of the disc is within the cage. Yet a disc resting perfectly in the center of the cage but on top of the basket is not considered good. If resting on top of the basket is still not considered as holing out, then why are hanging discs or wedged discs ok?
I'm with you on putts that
I'm with you on putts that come to rest atop the cage. Those should count. With wedged discs, if part of the disc is inside the cage, as must be the case with a wedgie, then I think it should count, too. Regarding discs hanging from the cage but outside it, I am also on board with this being a made putt. I've only seen it once, but it made sense to me to count it. After all, spit outs don't -- and shouldn't -- count as made putts, and they are often just bad luck. I like the idea that we can have a little good luck weirdness, too, with wedgies and hangers. Let's add toppers to the list, too, though. Maybe the PDGA is trying to prevent topping as a putting strategy with a Gumbputt disc or something.
I don’t agree that a disc
I don’t agree that a disc coming to rest on the top of a basket should count, because of the variety of basket design. If baskets have to be registered and approved to be in a sanctioned event then they are designed for the rules, but if the top of the basket becomes a possibility, then everyone would rather play on baskets who’s tops slope in vs the flat slick top baskets. Just my two cents
Re: 1.01 Player Eligibility
Re: 1.01 Player Eligibility ¶B and the Competition Manual, are non-members, non-current membes, and new members who do not yet have a rating eligible to compete in rating-protected divisions?
811.6 sounds horrible,
811.6 sounds horrible, anybody blowing up on a hole could just elect to go 'absent' and take par +4 as it reads now. If someone elects to not finish a hole, it should be a DQ, not par +4.
These are just the changes.
These are just the changes. The other paragraphs in 811 are still there to prevent someone from doing as you describe.
I'm another vote against the
I'm another vote against the change to 807. A throw or putt that wedges into the cage face without passing above the top of the cage is a missed putt and should not count. I don't see any advantage to making this change.
Y'all need to learn to read
Y'all need to learn to read with better comprehension.
"But there is an official process for doing so.
Members are asked to email their comments and recommendations regarding the proposed rules changes below to [email protected], where the replies will be read, considered, and cataloged. No other rules changes will be considered for the 2022 rules update."
Language change on 811
Language change on 811 Misplay #6.
6. Missing. If a player was present with the group and is now missing when it is their turn to throw, the player is given 30 seconds to rejoin the group. If the player remains missing "FOR THAT TIME", then the player is considered absent for the hole and receives a score of par plus 4 for the hole.
Why not just say 30 seconds?
I only understand why there
I cant understand why there would ever be any consideration of making a putter stuck in the side of the pan count as in…
The way I see it if the putter isn’t laying in the bottom of the pan or hanging from the chains it should not be considered in.
Even the last rule change is foolish. Putter hanging off the side of the pan with a centimeter of the disc breaking the plane counts as in just doesn’t make sense.
Thank you for adding the
Thank you for adding the membership requirements for accepting cash and playing a B Tier or higher event. Events are so impacted due to growth, I do not see this causing any trouble for tournaments to fill. If you're serious enough to accept cash and play higher tiers, be serious enough to support the PDGA.
So if I'm playing a B-tier
So if I'm playing a B-tier and win$50, I'll have to pay y'all $100 to get the cash.. Very likely not enough age protected 50+ players to make a decent prize pool.. Maybe y'all should add to the prize pools For the protected and other under represented divisions? I only play one maybe two sanctioned events a year here in Alaska so doesn't pay to have a membership.. Not to worry though.. Nobody is going to enforce your rule..
C.Bathroom break set a timer, reasonable is to vague
B - clarify wedged discs
You're capping event sizes now, the TD knows the course and flow and what will work or not better than you do. If you're wanting to get involved with event planning set it at A Tier and above and make the TD explain his reasoning for the ghost card or cards
OK, so I'm playing in Florida
OK, so I'm playing in Florida and my disc lands near a water hazard. Then a damn alligator comes and stands right next to my disc. What do the rules say I am allowed to do to retrieve my disc? P.S. I have a concealed carry permit.
I assume you mean to ask “How
I’m going to assume that you mean to ask “How do you proceed” and not just how to retrieve your disc? I would think that you just wait the same as with any people or animals in the area keeping you from making a safe shot. Of course, a TD might announce greater than 1 meter relief from known alligator infested waters as well. The new 802.03 A.4. still covers it because the shot clock only starts once “the playing area is clear.”
“if a dog runs into the fairway, or if a pedestrian crosses the fairway, the clock resets and begins again at 30 seconds when the playing area becomes clear again.”
I disagree with the general
I disagree with the general rule 2.01 concerning that it is okay for amateurs to receive money from PDGA Leagues . I think the definition of amateur, playing for the love of the game continue.If you are receiving money you are a pro.
Regarding the rule change, I
Regarding the rule change, I’m fairly certain that it is meant to remove a huge barrier for leagues that payout in cash so they’ll hopefully consider sanctioning their league. Win/Win. I’m not sure why sanctioning a league round should keep anyone from paying out in cash at all but at least AMs would be able to play in Open and get paid as usual.
Besides, I’ve always had trouble seeing much difference between paying out cash as opposed to “vouchers” that are worth an equivalent amount of cash. We then force players to buy merchandise from select vendors with limited stock on hand instead of allowing players a broader choice of vendors or brands. Don’t get me wrong, I want to support the business of selling disc golf plastic but I guarantee that every Amateur would be happier with cash. As far as trophies only (for the love of the sport) maybe for NOV/REC. However, I want to know that most of my entry fee is going back to payouts for my division, not another division and definitely not being pilfered to pay Open players. Just my opinion.
I think the finishing a hole
I think the finishing a hole rule could be simplified by the following statement. "The hole is complete when the disc comes to rest supported by the catching device above the ground." This would take all the ambiguity out of whether the disc got stuck in the side from the inside or outside of the cage. It would allow for being on top (which is very rare but would be OK. It once was in the early days of the sport.) It would allow for a disc hanging on the edge (even rarer). But most importantly it would eliminate any argument about whether the hole was completed.
To be even more clear: "The
To be even more clear: "The hole is complete when the disc comes to rest completely above the ground and supported by the catching device." That way a disc on the ground leaning on the pole isn't controversial. That is, I could read your version as this: Even though a disc is on the ground leaning against the pole, it is supported at a point above the ground by the catching device, so it counts.
"The hole is complete when
"The hole is complete when the disc comes to rest completely above the ground and supported by the catching device." < this version seems pretty darn clear. Simple and uncontestable - wait ....let me check with my attorney.....yep ...she concurs.
Late to the party and this
Late to the party and this isn't the official way to post comments anyway but, the change I would like to see is having players event history still being visible when they are not active PDGA members.
It is so crazy that if you stop playing the sport for whatever reason your entire history is essentially wiped unless you can remember every event you have ever played. For instance if there are retired pros that you want to view their events but, they are not an active member anymore you just can't view it and its essentially lost.
In a personal situation, I paid for my membership during the time that I played those events so my view is that they should always be available to me. There would have to be some way to prevent the cases where people could get away without having active memberships and getting all of the rounds added, but I think the history should be available for view.
Let me know a link to the
Let me know a link to the section 1.14 of the Competition Manual.