Dave on the 2007 Rocs will the star ones be soft or hard?
I like the idea of a softer Roc.

Dave on the 2007 Rocs will the star ones be soft or hard?
I like the idea of a softer Roc.



There are two types of Star. The latest batch is not soft, but not stiff either. It's a new blend that we think has a better grip. This is distinct from the spectator release.

Dave - is the CFR Raffle program over now?

Dave - is the CFR Raffle program over now?



I don't think so, unless something changed, and I wasn't told.
There is a drawing every month.

Your website innovadiscs.com only shows it through last month and used to show the prizes for months to come..that is why I was wondering




Dave - is the CFR Raffle program over now?



I don't think so, unless something changed, and I wasn't told.
There is a drawing every month.

Your website innovadiscs.com only shows it through last month and used to show the prizes for months to come..that is why I was wondering



I will check it out for sure, but I think they just showed last month's (Jan) winners.

Are you sure this is only the 3rd new Ask Dave D thread? i know every so often we start a new one because the Dave D. threads get so long.

here is a link to the last Dave D. thread: previous Ask Dave D thread can be found here (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Equipment&Number=460579&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)
(dates of that thread were: 10/20/05 thru February 2007)

if anyone has a link to the even older version(s) of Dave's thread, please post a link here...

Dave any new word on the Star Roadrunner? Are you still looking at a softer version?

Dave any new word on the Star Roadrunner? Are you still looking at a softer version?



I have a new plastic combination that might work. Grippy, without being too soft.

grippy Star Roadrunners > make it so ;)

-------------------------

here are links to the several Ask Dave Dunipace about Innova threads (thanks Geoffrey) --

Ask Dave D About Innova Here #3 (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=650595&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) - 2/2007
Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=460579&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) - 10/2005
Ask Dave D about Innova Here!!! (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=365408&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) - 5/2005
Ask Dave Dunipace 2 (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=224530&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) - 8/2004
Question for Dave D (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=42323&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) - 4/2003

Millennium -
Ask John H about Millenium discs (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=602823&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) - 10/2006

I was tired of fighting the empty pages thats why I started this Dave post!!!!
Dave on the new Ontario dx Rocs can you tell how few where ran? Thanks

I was tired of fighting the empty pages thats why I started this Dave post!!!!
Dave on the new Ontario dx Rocs can you tell how few where ran? Thanks



We've only run 8 or 9 boxes so far. We intend to run more this week.

New Ontario DX rocs!!!??? I missed this one. When can we expect to see these? CFR only?

New Ontario DX rocs!!!??? I missed this one. When can we expect to see these? CFR only?



These are for custom hotstamping only for now on the west coast. East should have them soon.

They are already for sale at Discgolfvalues (http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=On_Roc&PHPSESSID=63eebeda790baa819b8ddb6c2143e445).

[Ontario Rocs] are already for sale at Discgolfvalues (http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=On_Roc&PHPSESSID=63eebeda790baa819b8ddb6c2143e445).



http://discgolfvalues.com/store/images/OntRoc.jpg

sweet! are these the latest, greatest DX plastic?

Description:

Innova Champion Discs has run a limited number of Ontario mold Rocs. Molded in February of 2007, these discs will be available in limited numbers as a part of the TFR Tournament Fundraising program. The Golden State Classic is the first event to offer these discs so get them while you can. All are white and all are 180 grams.
Price: $15.95

[Ontario Rocs] are already for sale at Discgolfvalues (http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=On_Roc&PHPSESSID=63eebeda790baa819b8ddb6c2143e445).



sweet! are these the latest, greatest DX plastic?

Description:

Innova Champion Discs has run a limited number of Ontario mold Rocs. Molded in February of 2007, these discs will be available in limited numbers as a part of the TFR Tournament Fundraising program. The Golden State Classic is the first event to offer these discs so get them while you can. All are white and all are 180 grams.
Price: $15.95



Were the 2006 USDGC Celtic SB Rocs in the Ontario mold?

sweet! are these the latest, greatest DX plastic?




Yes.

Were the 2006 USDGC Celtic SB Rocs in the Ontario mold?



Sorry, I don't know which stamps went with which discs.

I think all the USDGC SB rocs from the past two years were the Ontario Mold if I'm not mistaken.

What he said. Any chance?



grippy Star Roadrunners > make it so ;)

-------------------------

here are links to the several Ask Dave Dunipace about Innova threads (thanks Geoffrey) --

Ask Dave D About Innova Here #3 (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=650595&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) - 2/2007
Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=460579&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) - 10/2005
Ask Dave D about Innova Here!!! (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=365408&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) - 5/2005
Ask Dave Dunipace 2 (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=224530&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) - 8/2004
Question for Dave D (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=42323&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) - 4/2003

Millennium -
Ask John H about Millenium discs (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=602823&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) - 10/2006

I think all the USDGC SB rocs from the past two years were the Ontario Mold if I'm not mistaken.



SB '06 Hole 7 is Rancho

dave is it true that the teebird is not going to be made any more

dave is it true that the teebird is not going to be made any more



Yes it's true. You better buy a box NOW!!!!!

dave is it true that the teebird is not going to be made any more



Yes it's true. You better buy a box NOW!!!!!


why :( :( :(

I think all the USDGC SB rocs from the past two years were the Ontario Mold if I'm not mistaken.



I have USDGC Rocs, Champ, Star, Glo, and SB, in last two years are Ranchos.

dave is it true that the teebird is not going to be made any more



Yes it's true. You better buy a box NOW!!!!!


why :( :( :(



Jacob your chain has been jerked so hard you are now in a different thread from whence you started. ;) :D :D

dave is it true that the teebird is not going to be made any more



Jacob - Are you trolling? Who told you it was being discontinued? Is it any kind of credible source? Are you just posting to see your name on here?

Plenty of people have already answered the question for Dave. No Jacob, the TeeBird is NOT being discontinued.

for the Ontario Champion Rocs:

in 2005 the Special Blend was an Ontario configuration.
the 2006 pre-release and 2006 Special Blend variety were a type of hybrid mix of Ontario and Rancho.
the 2006 STAR Roc and 2007 prerelease were both Rancho molds.

they all have Rancho engraved on the bottom. not sure why, dave gave a reason for this when the 2005 SB's were released.

: ) :

Yeah, I had an Special Blend Celtic, and it was definitely Ontario.

for the Ontario Champion Rocs:

in 2005 the Special Blend was an Ontario configuration.
the 2006 pre-release and 2006 Special Blend variety were a type of hybrid mix of Ontario and Rancho.
the 2006 STAR Roc and 2007 prerelease were both Rancho molds.

they all have Rancho engraved on the bottom. not sure why, dave gave a reason for this when the 2005 SB's were released.

: ) :



These were configured to be like Ontarios, but were not true Ontarios. You can compare them to Ranchos and see the differences in the nose and flight plate. True Ontarios say "Ontario" on the bottom. True Ontarios were run for the latest small (500-600) batch of USDGC Champion Rocs.

Dave,

No question today, but praise. All praise to the Whippet-X! I bought one last night and threw it today and I must say it is one sweet disc. For something so stable I can really turn it over. I love the consistency, and I think it might give my TeeBirds a run for its money.

Dave,

No question today, but praise. All praise to the Whippet-X! I bought one last night and threw it today and I must say it is one sweet disc. For something so stable I can really turn it over. I love the consistency, and I think it might give my TeeBirds a run for its money.



I told you not to buy one, why didn't you listen to me. You will regret it in the long run. Quit while you can, next time I see you just give me your whippet and walk away while you still can. :D :D

Dave,

No question today, but praise. All praise to the Whippet-X! I bought one last night and threw it today and I must say it is one sweet disc. For something so stable I can really turn it over. I love the consistency, and I think it might give my TeeBirds a run for its money.



You should try a ram!

Dave,
Still no word on the 07 rocs and march 1st is the tenative release date. Are you guys keeping it super-secret this year?

Dave,
Still no word on the 07 rocs and march 1st is the tenative release date. Are you guys keeping it super-secret this year?



Not from my end. I think the USDGC guys don't have their artwork for the stamps together yet. From a disc perspective, I think there will be a pretty wide selection of different Rocs. Much smaller overall release. New (different from spectator release)Star blend in Rancho type. Some new Rancho Champions that are translucent rather than clear. They have several plastics, molds, and colors to choose from, and they can only release a set number which is much smaller than last year.

...Some new Rancho Champions that are translucent rather than clear...



Darn it, just when I thought I wouldn't even try to get any USDGC Rocs this year, you had to go and say that!

It may have been asked before - but are there going to be Star Banshees? For some reason the champion ones aren't as stable as the stiff KC PRO ones. I would like to see a stable Banshee again, especially with all that grip.

Thanks,

Whip

They are already for sale at Discgolfvalues (http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=On_Roc&PHPSESSID=63eebeda790baa819b8ddb6c2143e445).



Thanks Discette!! It is on the way to my door in next few days :D

Hey Dave

any chance to reproduce the San Marino Rocs?? Pretty Please :D

Dave,

The Star eagles came out a little domey, more so than the star teebirds! Was this intended or are you working on a flatter version?

It may have been asked before - but are there going to be Star Banshees? For some reason the champion ones aren't as stable as the stiff KC PRO ones. I would like to see a stable Banshee again, especially with all that grip.

Thanks,

Whip



We have no plans as yet for a Star Banshee, however we do have plans for a stable Champion Banshee. Not sure what happened, but we will try to make sure the Champions are stable next run.

Dave,

The Star eagles came out a little domey, more so than the star teebirds! Was this intended or are you working on a flatter version?



This was not intended. Domeyness aside, how stable were they?

Dave,

The Star eagles came out a little domey, more so than the star teebirds! Was this intended or are you working on a flatter version?



This was not intended. Domeyness aside, how stable were they?



From my experiences, Star Eagles are nice. They are not the most high speed overstable eagles i have thrown, but what they lack in high speed stablility, they make up in low speed fade. They also glide better than most other Eagles Ive thrown. Great when thrown with a touch of hyzer, as I mostly use this disc for flat hyzers of medium length.

I recieved some red ones that are noticeably domier than the one in my bag. I havent thrown them yet, so I can not comment on how the extra dome changes flight. The one Im throwing is just slightly domier than my 2nd Run CE dayglos. It is a worthy backup/replacement. :D

How do the Star Eagles fly compared to Star Teebirds? Are they better on a lower line?

It may have been asked before - but are there going to be Star Banshees? For some reason the champion ones aren't as stable as the stiff KC PRO ones. I would like to see a stable Banshee again, especially with all that grip.

Thanks,

Whip



We have no plans as yet for a Star Banshee, however we do have plans for a stable Champion Banshee. Not sure what happened, but we will try to make sure the Champions are stable next run.



Sweet! I am incredibly happy to hear that.

As far as the Star Eagles are concerned, I found them to be slightly less stable (turn over a bit easier, fades about the same) than the Champion counterpart. I was a little discouraged to find this; the Eagle to me, should be more stable than the Teebird (which I might add is the bomb in star). That is why I am so excited about the return of the stable Banshees!

Whip

Dave,

The Star eagles came out a little domey, more so than the star teebirds! Was this intended or are you working on a flatter version?



This was not intended. Domeyness aside, how stable were they?



I found the Star Eagle to be less stable than I would expect, not much different from the Star Teebird in terms of stability. Star Teebird is my primary driver on accuracy drives, but into the wind or on strong hyzer finish type throws I was looking to the Star Eagle as the fit but I have not found it to be that way. I really like the feel of the Star Eagle though, just would like to see a redcution in the dome which I am thinking would give a bit more stability. I am not a typical max weight overstable disc thrower, I don't throw the Teerex, Max, Firebird or Monster but I do appreciate a good eagle and would like to see the star fit that role, with the loss of the Champion Eagle-X.

Thanks for asking Dave

What have your Touring Pros been saying?

Just one person's experience but I have thrown 150g Champ Eagles since they became available and the more domey Star Eagles in 150g for me are pretty much identical in stability to the Champs for me. They do seem to have noticeably more glide for me. Granted 150g discs seem to vary from their heavy weight brethren in flight characteristics in some molds.

Dave,

The Star eagles came out a little domey, more so than the star teebirds! Was this intended or are you working on a flatter version?



This was not intended. Domeyness aside, how stable were they?



I found the Star Eagle to be less stable than I would expect, not much different from the Star Teebird in terms of stability. Star Teebird is my primary driver on accuracy drives, but into the wind or on strong hyzer finish type throws I was looking to the Star Eagle as the fit but I have not found it to be that way. I really like the feel of the Star Eagle though, just would like to see a redcution in the dome which I am thinking would give a bit more stability. I am not a typical max weight overstable disc thrower, I don't throw the Teerex, Max, Firebird or Monster but I do appreciate a good eagle and would like to see the star fit that role, with the loss of the Champion Eagle-X.



S.E.X :cool:

I've only thrown 150s as well & I find them more understable than Champion.

[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
I recieved some red ones that are noticeably domier than the one in my bag. I havent thrown them yet, so I can not comment on how the extra dome changes flight. The one Im throwing is just slightly domier than my 2nd Run CE dayglos. It is a worthy backup/replacement. :D



Actually I noticed the same thing about the red Star Eagles I have. More domey than the orange by a bit and much domier than the purple Star Eagles I have. They all seem to fly the same for me.

I really like my red St TEE-REX 174g, but haven`t found a St TEE-REX with the same stability. I even got one without the small wave just inside the rim. Terrible isn`t it.
How stable is the fundr. Star Teerex-X compared to reg. St TEE-REX and St Max?

What do you think of the star eagle-x?

I really like my red St TEE-REX 174g, but haven`t found a St TEE-REX with the same stability. I even got one without the small wave just inside the rim. Terrible isn`t it.
How stable is the fundr. Star Teerex-X compared to reg. St TEE-REX and St Max?



I think they are about half way in between.

What do you think of the star eagle-x?



I have never been an Eagle fan, other than the first year. I went for the TeeBird. I threw the Star Eagle X and found it to be more stable than the regular Champion Eagles we have been making. I didn't play any rounds with it, so I can't say much more. Sorry.

IS THE KITE GOING 2 BE A FLIPPY DISC LIKE THE STINGRAY

Do you know if the teerex with the double dx teerex stamp that was sent out to team members is a teerex-x or teerex? The bottom is the same as normal production ones, but the top is obviously retooled t obe kind of banshee-like. I love the low speed fade, it cuts pretty hard at the end. I am still able to flip it.

I threw at Hole 7 of Arroyo Golf Course @ Red Rock Country Club (Arnold Palmer design!). It is down hill about 100 feet. It is 186 yds to the center of the green where my disc stopped. I should have made a bet with the semi-pro golfers I was playing with. He thought there was no way in the world I was getting to the green. I also threw it to 3 feet of the pin on the next Par 3.

Nice Drive, What a marketing tool for Titleist "We can get you inside the disc on the green" :D

Do you know if the teerex with the double dx teerex stamp that was sent out to team members is a teerex-x or teerex? The bottom is the same as normal production ones, but the top is obviously retooled t obe kind of banshee-like. I love the low speed fade, it cuts pretty hard at the end. I am still able to flip it.

I threw at Hole 7 of Arroyo Golf Course @ Red Rock Country Club (Arnold Palmer design!). It is down hill about 100 feet. It is 186 yds to the center of the green where my disc stopped. I should have made a bet with the semi-pro golfers I was playing with. He thought there was no way in the world I was getting to the green. I also threw it to 3 feet of the pin on the next Par 3.



The latest TeeRexes sent to the team were Xes. I don't know about the hotstamp.

IS THE KITE GOING 2 BE A FLIPPY DISC LIKE THE STINGRAY



Not as flippy, but lots of carry and very little fade.

Dave,

Are you a fan of the Grateful Dead?
If so, a limited addition "Pride of Cucamonga" Roc would be sweet. Thanks for all you do.

IS THE KITE GOING 2 BE A FLIPPY DISC LIKE THE STINGRAY




Dave already answered this question on the other thread.



You seem to have a very bad habit of asking Dave the same questions over and over.

I think I speak for most everyone when I quote Sleepy:

http://home.wideopenwest.com/~ebradley01/stupidposts.gif

Jeez. Isnt that kid like 10 or something?

Dave,
Have you heard amymore from S Johnson as to when he will publish his new book? Thx

Star Whippets ?

Dave,
Have you heard amymore from S Johnson as to when he will publish his new book? Thx



No, I haven't and he keeps asking for more info. I told him he should start volume 2. :)

Star Whippets ?



Donny, you are incorrigible, but lovable. I don't know when, but I will let you know when I do.

Jeez. Isnt that kid like 10 or something?



Jeez, I was beating up on a little kid. No wonder it was so easy.

Jeez. Isnt that kid like 10 or something?



Jeez, I was beating up on a little kid. No wonder it was so easy.



LOL.

Jeez. Isnt that kid like 10 or something?



Jeez, I was beating up on a little kid. No wonder it was so easy.



LOL.



Someone has to tell him about the facts of life, for example the "Caps Lock"-key..... ;)

10 years old = more pliable bones = less wear & tear on the knuckles. :p

Jeez. Isnt that kid like 10 or something?



Jeez, I was beating up on a little kid. No wonder it was so easy.



go easy on him. his questions are some of my favorites! ;)

Star Whippets ?



Donny, you are incorrigible, but lovable. I don't know when, but I will let you know when I do.



Thanks Dave , I won't bug you anymore about Star Whippets !!!! :D

Hi Dave,

I tried searching for my answer, but the search function didn't return anything that satisfied.

Are there any plans to run the Gazelle in Star plastic? If so, do you know when, and what type (firm or soft) Star it would be run in?

Thanks,


sleepy

Dave,

I've recently picked up a couple of discs in Champion plastic, a Teebird and a Banshee, and they are different from most other post-CE Champion discs. For starters they are opaque/mildly translucent, fairly stiff, and the plastic seems to shrink a bit more as it dries making the discs "less beefy" with sharper features. It is remniscent of the old opaque CE plastic. Not only is the plastic different, but the discs fly very different from their clear champion and star counterparts. The Teebird is faster, less stable, and longer than other Teebirds. The Banshee is very similar in speed and stability to a new Star Firebird.

Are you taking Champion plastic in this direction on purpose, or are these discs just another notch on the belt of experimentation? Either way, the plastic is awesome!

dave on your web site innova.com i saw the kc pro faq is that a real disc or not???

Hi Dave,

I tried searching for my answer, but the search function didn't return anything that satisfied.

Are there any plans to run the Gazelle in Star plastic? If so, do you know when, and what type (firm or soft) Star it would be run in?

Thanks,


sleepy



It's not in the schedule yet at all. When Gazelles do come up again, we might run Star. If we ran Star, it would probably be a medium firmness.

dave on your web site innova.com i saw the kc pro faq is that a real disc or not???



And again, when is the FAQ going to be released in star? :D

Dave,

I've recently picked up a couple of discs in Champion plastic, a Teebird and a Banshee, and they are different from most other post-CE Champion discs. For starters they are opaque/mildly translucent, fairly stiff, and the plastic seems to shrink a bit more as it dries making the discs "less beefy" with sharper features. It is remniscent of the old opaque CE plastic. Not only is the plastic different, but the discs fly very different from their clear champion and star counterparts. The Teebird is faster, less stable, and longer than other Teebirds. The Banshee is very similar in speed and stability to a new Star Firebird.

Are you taking Champion plastic in this direction on purpose, or are these discs just another notch on the belt of experimentation? Either way, the plastic is awesome!



Without knowing the exact vintage of these discs, I would immediately guess that these were normal mixes of Champion plus a weighting agent which tends to make them cloudy, rather than clear. If they are a bit stiffer than usual, it was a mix of two types of candy that we have been trying.

dave on your web site innova.com i saw the kc pro faq is that a real disc or not???



FAQ means Frequently Asked Questions. Not a real disc.

I think I speak for most everyone when I quote Sleepy:

http://home.wideopenwest.com/~ebradley01/stupidposts.gif

What's the latest on the Champion Roc release? The most recent post on ZoneDriven said they will be released March 1 and I was wondering about what would be offered this year (Champion, Star, SB plastic) and the stamps. rWc3523 :cool:

What's the latest on the Champion Roc release? The most recent post on ZoneDriven said they will be released March 1 and I was wondering about what would be offered this year (Champion, Star, SB plastic) and the stamps. rWc3523 :cool:



This really is a question for the UDGC guys on the east coast, but I have only seen one piece of art so far. They might be a little behind on that. As far as offerings of plastic types go, they have a wide variety to choose from and not too much of any one thing. New and older Star Ranchos, new Champion Ontarios, regular Champion Ranchos are the main disc types.

Are there any plans to run the Gazelle in Star plastic? If so, do you know when, and what type (firm or soft) Star it would be run in?



It's not in the schedule yet at all. When Gazelles do come up again, we might run Star. If we ran Star, it would probably be a medium firmness.



Even if they're not in Star, maybe they could be run in DX and another plastic? Wasn't there a KC Gazelle before? That would be nice.

Thanks

Star Whippets ?



Donny, you are incorrigible, but lovable. I don't know when, but I will let you know when I do.



Thanks Dave , I won't bug you anymore about Star Whippets !!!! :D



<u>translation</u>: Dave you have six to eight weeks before Donny "reminds" you there is a calling for Star Whippets. :eek: ;)

PS: Glow JK Aviar-x's and Star Cheetahs would be even better ;) and -- Grippy Star Roadrunners MUST BE RELEASED SOON!!! :D

Are there any plans to run the Gazelle in Star plastic? If so, do you know when, and what type (firm or soft) Star it would be run in?



It's not in the schedule yet at all. When Gazelles do come up again, we might run Star. If we ran Star, it would probably be a medium firmness.



Even if they're not in Star, maybe they could be run in DX and another plastic? Wasn't there a KC Gazelle before? That would be nice.

Thanks



There are both KC Pro Gazelles in pro plastic and Candy Gazelles with the Pro stamp on them. I have a few hanging on my wall cuz theyre hard to find, plus some have sentimental value. My first Candy Gazelle was autographed by Climo, my 2nd became the disc I made my 1st Ace with, the 3rd was in Pro Plastic and Dr. Rick gave it to me, and my 4th belonged to my best friend. He gave up disc golf after like a day in favor of RPG's. He gave it to his lil bro and I traded him a used Champion Starfire and another disc for it.

Even if they're not in Star, maybe they could be run in DX and another plastic? Wasn't there a KC Gazelle before? That would be nice.

Thanks



I have a KC Pro Gazelle (11x) from about 3 years ago. It is as durable as all my Champion discs, very grippy, and in my opinion is the best run of Pro plastic I have ever seen. Pick one up for sure if you ever find one.

Star Whippets ?



Donny, you are incorrigible, but lovable. I don't know when, but I will let you know when I do.



Thanks Dave , I won't bug you anymore about Star Whippets !!!! :D



<u>translation</u>: Dave you have six to eight weeks before Donny "reminds" you there is a calling for Star Whippets. :eek: ;)

PS: Glow JK Aviar-x's and Star Cheetahs would be even better ;) and -- Grippy Star Roadrunners MUST BE RELEASED SOON!!! :D



Oh yea , I almost forgot about Glow JK Aviar-x's !!!!!! :D

What's the latest on the Champion Roc release? The most recent post on ZoneDriven said they will be released March 1 and I was wondering about what would be offered this year (Champion, Star, SB plastic) and the stamps. rWc3523 :cool:



This really is a question for the UDGC guys on the east coast, but I have only seen one piece of art so far. They might be a little behind on that. As far as offerings of plastic types go, they have a wide variety to choose from and not too much of any one thing. New and older Star Ranchos, new Champion Ontarios, regular Champion Ranchos are the main disc types.



Can we see that art????? ;) :D:D:D

I can't believe we went over 24 hours without a Dave_D question!

Here's one: Dave, how long until the Kite will be out for distribution?

Hey Dave,

In opne of Blake's distance articles you mentioned said "throw the nose". Is this correct? If so, what does this mean?

I've got two dif CFR Kite discs. Discgolfvaluse has them, and I got some this morning for the Gentlemans tournament.

I can't believe we went over 24 hours without a Dave_D question!

Here's one: Dave, how long until the Kite will be out for distribution?



I don't have a definitive date yet, but right now I hear it's around the first of March for the DX version.

Hey Dave,

In opne of Blake's distance articles you mentioned said "throw the nose". Is this correct? If so, what does this mean?



I don't throw the nose. I would throw the part that I am grabbing, which is more like the back, but I would certainly pay attention to the attitude the nose is in. Maybe I said something like 'nose attitude is very important'. I have said in the past to throw the back through the nose. Maybe that's what he meant.

I have said in the past to throw the back through the nose.



could you elaborate on this notion further?

Hey Dave,

In opne of Blake's distance articles you mentioned said "throw the nose". Is this correct? If so, what does this mean?



I don't throw the nose. I would throw the part that I am grabbing, which is more like the back, but I would certainly pay attention to the attitude the nose is in. Maybe I said something like 'nose attitude is very important'. I have said in the past to throw the back through the nose. Maybe that's what he meant.



By Dave Dunipace on Monday, December 31, 2001 - 04:53 am: Meat, yes you want to keep your wrist down to keep the disc from fluttering (off axis torque) as it rips out. How you get height and nose down is by changing the position of the nose. You throw the nose about 30 to 45 degrees left, 15 to 30 feet high, with a right bank (anhyzer). As the disc turns to the right, the right side of the disc becomes the nose and flies nose down and glides downhill in a left to right trajectory. As the disc runs out of speed it will then automatically bank to the left when the left edge becomes the nose and continues downfield nose down right to left. Review Randy's post, he described it well.

I have said in the past to throw the back through the nose.



could you elaborate on this notion further?



Basically, the back of the disc is the last to leave your grip, so this makes a good kinesthetic focal point to aim with. I use this to feel the line of the snap and feel the orientation of the flight plate. Throwing the back (where I grip) through the front makes me focus on the flight plate angles,trajectory angles, and grip at the same time. Then I just have to throw with the necessary rhythm and power.

By Dave Dunipace on Monday, December 31, 2001 - 04:53 am: Meat, yes you want to keep your wrist down to keep the disc from fluttering (off axis torque) as it rips out. How you get height and nose down is by changing the position of the nose. You throw the nose about 30 to 45 degrees left, 15 to 30 feet high, with a right bank (anhyzer). As the disc turns to the right, the right side of the disc becomes the nose and flies nose down and glides downhill in a left to right trajectory. As the disc runs out of speed it will then automatically bank to the left when the left edge becomes the nose and continues downfield nose down right to left. Review Randy's post, he described it well.



I see how I said, "throw the nose about" when I should have said, "throw with the nose about". I was talking about the nose or flight plate orientation.

Dave, will Team Members be sent a couple of Kite's to test?

Hello Dave,

I have got a really beaten DX Wolf that I just love for a long/mid-range approach. Are these out of production and if so, what would you recommend as a replacement?

Thanks Dave

Dave, will Team Members be sent a couple of Kite's to test?



Yes, but we were waiting for another project too.

Hello Dave,

I have got a really beaten DX Wolf that I just love for a long/mid-range approach. Are these out of production and if so, what would you recommend as a replacement?

Thanks Dave



These are not out of production, and won't be any time soon as they have their own niche. We are running them right now. Our Stingray or a really beat up DX Coyote are probably the closest discs we have to the Wolf.

Dave,

Is there any chance of champion gators making a return. Or maybe the gator x in star? I'm not a fan of the gator L. Also, any ideas on where to find 170's plus champ gators. Looks like supply is disappearing fast. THANKS!

Dave,

Is there any chance of champion gators making a return. Or maybe the gator x in star? I'm not a fan of the gator L. Also, any ideas on where to find 170's plus champ gators. Looks like supply is disappearing fast. THANKS!



The best chance is a Gator X in Star for the next run. Sorry, I don't know where you can get heavy Champion Gators.

Dave,

Just how many threads about yourself do you really need? ;) Are you guys going to gradually eliminate the Champion plastic and just have Star as the top of the line?

are champ gators no longer going to be made? if so, bummer. i have 3 left. also if so, when would you guess the star gator-x will be run? thanks as always for your time

Dave,

Is there any chance of champion gators making a return. Or maybe the gator x in star? I'm not a fan of the gator L. Also, any ideas on where to find 170's plus champ gators. Looks like supply is disappearing fast. THANKS!



I second this request! Need more CH or Star "overstable" Gators!!!
Gator L is an OK disc ... but the CH Gators, the ones with the circlular holo stamp are the BEST.

Those are 1st runs and hard to find. They regular produced ones are not as stable but still crazy stable and better than the Star L mold that there is.

The First Run Champion Gator wins for most dependable, most versatile, and most used disc in my bag award. I only have one, and I got it right when they came out, and I haven't stopped using it since. PLEASE make a run of Star Gator X that are as perfect as those first runs.

small side note complaint: why take a disc thats main function is to be way overstable and make it just plain stable?

Dave,

Just how many threads about yourself do you really need? ;) Are you guys going to gradually eliminate the Champion plastic and just have Star as the top of the line?



No, Champion is here to stay. Some people like Champion better.

Hey Dave

I noticed that some of the champion plastic is opaque while others are clear. Does this indicate different runs and if so can you tell me what years got what kind of plastic?

are champ gators no longer going to be made? if so, bummer. i have 3 left. also if so, when would you guess the star gator-x will be run? thanks as always for your time



We will probably do the Champion as X first. Not sure when the next run will be. Probably late spring or summer.

The First Run Champion Gator wins for most dependable, most versatile, and most used disc in my bag award. I only have one, and I got it right when they came out, and I haven't stopped using it since. PLEASE make a run of Star Gator X that are as perfect as those first runs.

small side note complaint: why take a disc thats main function is to be way overstable and make it just plain stable?



That wasn't its original function per se. It was originally designed as a quicker, small diameter Roc type disc. We will be sure to make at least one version as a max stable X type.

Hey Dave

I noticed that some of the champion plastic is opaque while others are clear. Does this indicate different runs and if so can you tell me what years got what kind of plastic?



It may indicate different runs as our plastic supplies vary, even though we order the same plastic. It may also indicate a weight loading agent. Lately, the Champion plastic has been cloudier, rather that clear, for some unknown reason.

That wasn't its original function per se. It was originally designed as a quicker, small diameter Roc type disc. We will be sure to make at least one version as a max stable X type.



The Champion Gator is the best overstable utility/sm. diameter midrange disc Innova has ever produced. Teamed up with a roc or three in the bag....you have an ubeatable combo!!! :D

Thanks Dave....even though it didn't turn out like you planned! I introduce the champ gator to every golfer i walk down a fairway with! :D

I just have a quick question...
when putting in the wind does the roc act as a good stable putter that doesnt get moved around too much?

yes and no. it is larger diameter so it will be more affected than small diameter. try a rhyno or dx gator. [sorry Dave, couldn't resist}

It was originally designed as a quicker, small diameter Roc type disc.



I love the Star Gator, I have no idea why anyone would need it to be any more stable.

Comparing my Star Gator to the Roc is like comparing a DX Teebird to Star Firebird.

I love the Star Gator, I have no idea why anyone would need it to be any more stable.



Forehand my friend! I also like to throw my champ bc it will pan from extreme anhyzer better than the star. Great shot for when you are in trouble (which happens to me a lot). :o

Dave,
Is there any chance of another run of champion whippets?

Dave,
Is there any chance of another run of champion whippets?



Sure, at some point, but scheduling is tight right now.

Dave,
Is there any chance of another run of champion whippets?



Sure, at some point, but scheduling is tight right now.


Will you make different stamp so we know the 1st runs from the new release? Thx

I think it would be safe to say that ring stamp isn't coming back. One of the many reasons I think is that the metalic stamps didn't always come out as well as they should have. I think a greater number than usual had to be x-out because of stamp defects alone (i could be wrong)
Usually they just run special stamps for the first runs anyway.

Dave,
Is there any chance of another run of champion whippets?



Sure, at some point, but scheduling is tight right now.


Will you make different stamp so we know the 1st runs from the new release? Thx



I have no idea what stamp will go on at this time, or when we will be able to make the run. This is the kind of thing I like to do when I get a chance, but getting the chance is the trick.

I was looking at some cool DX Stamps the other day on a couple of old molds...
I think it would be cool to reissue new discs w/ old names ie griffin.. Phoenix etc... Before you dismiss because you think it would be too confusing... remember we keep up with all the different mold variations T, TL S, SX, Firebird, FX, FL I know you have a couple of new ones in the works just would like to have a griffin or phoenix in the bag again.

ce

Hey Dave,

Did you notice the 11x KC Aviars being grippier than the 12x KC Aviars? It could just be in me head.

Also, Discraft does a lot of tournaments in the "Discraft presents..." format. Why do we not see more of that from Innova?

Hey Dave,

Did you notice the 11x KC Aviars being grippier than the 12x KC Aviars? It could just be in me head.

Also, Discraft does a lot of tournaments in the "Discraft presents..." format. Why do we not see more of that from Innova?



The grippiness is somewhat individual. This years feels grippier than previous for me. It is a different formula.

We do not do Innova presents generally as we don't want to prevent or discourage another disc manufacturer, or outside sponsors from participating and adding value to the tournament.

What does the star aviar driver fly like compared to the 11x kc pro... I ask this becuase of the domieness the driver seems to be alot domier than the 11x... will the driver ever be flattened?

What does the star aviar driver fly like compared to the 11x kc pro... I ask this becuase of the domieness the driver seems to be alot domier than the 11x... will the driver ever be flattened?



The driver has always been a little taller than the putter. The latest moldings of putters and drivers in Aviars have been a little on the domey side. Previous runs had been a little on the flat side. We are looking for a happy medium, but we prefer slightly domey to slightly sunken. Using the discs usually tends to flatten them somewhat.

I am not sure how to compare the KC Aviar to the Star Aviar Driver. Most of the difference would be in the feel rather than the flight.

My Star Aviar Driver is super flat when compared to the new 12x KCs. Still domier than 10 or 11x though.

Hi Dave!

Looks like ZD has set the release date for the usdgc rocs for April 3rd. Does this mean they're all set to go full tilt? Is there anymore art updates? How about a teaser??? :D

Oh yea....since it's "combine" season...sending anyone to scout BG this year?? ;)

Hi Dave!

Looks like ZD has set the release date for the usdgc rocs for April 3rd. Does this mean they're all set to go full tilt? Is there anymore art updates? How about a teaser??? :D
)



I have now seen some art submissions, but not the finals. They are still behind the curve with the art. Three of the submissions would make cool teeshirt art, and I hope they do produce teeshirts this year as a bonus for certain purchases or random giveaways. But that is up to the USDGC committee.

My Star Aviar Driver is super flat when compared to the new 12x KCs. Still domier than 10 or 11x though.



Correct me if I am wrong, but domier discs, in general, are more overstable? I need at least one new Aviar drivar to replace my 11x that is getting pretty beat, but I don't know if I want to get a 12x, or try the driver mold in Star.

My Star Aviar Driver is super flat when compared to the new 12x KCs. Still domier than 10 or 11x though.



Correct me if I am wrong, but domier discs, in general, are more overstable? I need at least one new Aviar drivar to replace my 11x that is getting pretty beat, but I don't know if I want to get a 12x, or try the driver mold in Star.



Domey discs will tend to turn or flip easier but will also have more of a tendency to come out of the turn. A flatter disc will not be as easy to turn, but if it does start to turn it will have a harder time coming out of the turn.

My Star Aviar Driver is super flat when compared to the new 12x KCs. Still domier than 10 or 11x though.



Correct me if I am wrong, but domier discs, in general, are more overstable? I need at least one new Aviar drivar to replace my 11x that is getting pretty beat, but I don't know if I want to get a 12x, or try the driver mold in Star.



Domier discs in general are less overstable and straighter flying. The flatter a putter is, the more overstable it will be at low speeds. At high speeds it varies. Comparing different models, the dominess or flatness doesn't really have much to do with high speed stability, but it does affect the carry or float significantly. On the other hand, for any one model, generally the flatter discs will be more high speed stable than domey discs. Domey discs can be thrown higher and generally don't fly as well low line drive. Flat discs fly better low and tend to stall if thrown high.

Hi Dave,

Curious if you can shed some light on this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Champion-Edition-Whippet-X-rare-stamp-WX-175g-ce-disc_W0QQitemZ300086245321QQihZ020QQcategoryZ79804 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I thought I remember seeing or hearing about some hybrid KC Whippets, would this be one of them?

Hi Dave,

Curious if you can shed some light on this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Champion-Edition-Whippet-X-rare-stamp-WX-175g-ce-disc_W0QQitemZ300086245321QQihZ020QQcategoryZ79804 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I thought I remember seeing or hearing about some hybrid KC Whippets, would this be one of them?



It seems to be a Whippet X in CE plastic. KC Whippets were different. They were made with the same stuff that KC Rocs are made from. There might have been Ken Climo signiture Whippets in CE also.

Dave will you guys be releasing a 12x KC Pro Teebird?

Since the ontario mold rocs just got re-released, will the san marino get re-released too? They are getting a bit to pricey on ebay

Hi Dave,

Curious if you can shed some light on this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Champion-Edition-Whippet-X-rare-stamp-WX-175g-ce-disc_W0QQitemZ300086245321QQihZ020QQcategoryZ79804 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I thought I remember seeing or hearing about some hybrid KC Whippets, would this be one of them?



It seems to be a Whippet X in CE plastic. KC Whippets were different. They were made with the same stuff that KC Rocs are made from. There might have been Ken Climo signiture Whippets in CE also.




Yes, I have several KC Whippets, and I know it isnt the same plastic. I just dont recall ever seeing a CE Whippet, and have never seen one on Ebay. Im pretty sure the writing is the same on the back as the KCs. I was just curious if Im going after a KC/SE/CE Whippet, or something really rare, like a Champion Edition Whippet. It would have to be a very limited run if thats what it was, no?

Its not uncommon for people to basically lie, or think they have something they dont on Ebay. Especially with Innova plastic. It would be nice to have some sort of Innova Timeline to be able to pinpoint the rarer discs. If it were someone like Mark Molnar selling it, I wouldnt question it.

Thanks.

Alright.

How about the discription on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/FIRST-RUN-CE-EAGLE-172G-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089176762QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I remember our clubs first shipment of CE Eagles. There were Red and Dayglo, but I was told that the Dayglos came because Innova couldnt fill the orders with just the Reds, as the demand was to high, and we ordered late, just as the second batch was being done.

Im sorry to bug you about this stuff. I just have tons of old CE and hate people mis-representing what they are selling. Theres always the chance Im wrong, so I like to try to find out from the source.

Thanks Dave, either way.

from the same seller:

Im pretty sure this Valk (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MINT-CE-VALK-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089659260QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is not CE cause the "Tour de Disc Golf" was just last year.
& i hate when they call 1st Run Champion Whippets (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MINT-CE-WHIPPET-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089652101QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) CE Whippets.

from the same seller:

Im pretty sure this Valk (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MINT-CE-VALK-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089659260QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is not CE cause the "Tour de Disc Golf" was just last year.
& i hate when they call 1st Run Champion Whippets (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MINT-CE-WHIPPET-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089652101QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) CE Whippets.


The seller also says the edge of that whippet is "razor sharpe" now correct me if this isn't the same for all of them but my Champ Whippet has one of the bluntest noses of any disc i've ever seen lol

Alright.

How about the discription on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/FIRST-RUN-CE-EAGLE-172G-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089176762QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I remember our clubs first shipment of CE Eagles. There were Red and Dayglo, but I was told that the Dayglos came because Innova couldnt fill the orders with just the Reds, as the demand was to high, and we ordered late, just as the second batch was being done.

Im sorry to bug you about this stuff. I just have tons of old CE and hate people mis-representing what they are selling. Theres always the chance Im wrong, so I like to try to find out from the source.

Thanks Dave, either way.

depends on if the edge has a small bead on the edge of the rim...a.k.a a hook. Have defnitely seen both versions.

"hook" as in X-mold?

I have 3 1st runs in front of me. 2 red, 1 lime. All are ELs. Have a Dayglo similar to the one on Ebay as well from our clubs first CE Eagle shipment. It has the bead.

Were the CE Eagles done "x"-"L" on every other run or during the same runs?

from the same seller:

Im pretty sure this Valk (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MINT-CE-VALK-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089659260QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is not CE cause the "Tour de Disc Golf" was just last year.
&amp; i hate when they call 1st Run Champion Whippets (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MINT-CE-WHIPPET-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089652101QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) CE Whippets.



I asked the seller about the "CE Valk" and heres his/her response: "if you played in the tour you should know this is cfr plastic wich is the same thing as the old ce plastic"

careful w/ this seller!!!

from the same seller:

Im pretty sure this Valk (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MINT-CE-VALK-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089659260QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is not CE cause the "Tour de Disc Golf" was just last year.
& i hate when they call 1st Run Champion Whippets (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MINT-CE-WHIPPET-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089652101QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) CE Whippets.



I asked the seller about the "CE Valk" and heres his/her response: "if you played in the tour you should know this is cfr plastic wich is the same thing as the old ce plastic"

careful w/ this seller!!!



Wow, the seller has no clue...what a joke!

Check out her/his feedback. You would have to be a fool to buy something from this seller.

Dave,
I love the Z Reapers flight path, but it hurts my pinkie finger when I hold on to it. (I know it sounds weird). I am wondering if innova has any discs that the flight paths are related to the Reapers and very similar. If so what is it?
Thanks...

Dave,
I love the Z Reapers flight path, but it hurts my pinkie finger when I hold on to it. (I know it sounds weird). I am wondering if innova has any discs that the flight paths are related to the Reapers and very similar. If so what is it?
Thanks...



I dont think Dave has ever thrown a Reaper!

Hi there.

Lately, I have been tinkering with the Aviar molds. I recently got a KC Aviar (it doesn't have how many years he was on the win count, though).

Is the KC Aviar supposed to have a "concave" flight plate? The one I have doesn't have a flat flight plate...it kind of slightly sinks downwards.

I am really liking the more overstable flight of the KC Aviar and I love the stiffness & grip. The JK was getting a little slick for me.

Just wondering if I got an oddball disc or if it is supposed to be that way.

Thanks.

Hey Dave,

If I go buy a new TeeRex, what will I be buying? The first run TRX, or the new Teerex X?

All the 11x's and 0x's I've seen have a sunken in top. I have used kc aviars for some time and never liked these. the more ya use them the more it sinks. If ya have 20-30 bucks get a 10x. those are my favorite puttes by far. you might check out the new 12x's. they are slightly domey and the plastic is a little different from the 11x's and 0x's, but is still very nice. not quite as overstable. Closest thing you'll find to a 10x in my opinion

Dave will you guys be releasing a 12x KC Pro Teebird?



No. The TeeBird only comes in Champion, DX, and Star now.

Since the ontario mold rocs just got re-released, will the san marino get re-released too? They are getting a bit to pricey on ebay



San Marinos are history now. No more San Marinos.

Hi Dave,

Curious if you can shed some light on this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Champion-Edition-Whippet-X-rare-stamp-WX-175g-ce-disc_W0QQitemZ300086245321QQihZ020QQcategoryZ79804 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I thought I remember seeing or hearing about some hybrid KC Whippets, would this be one of them?



It seems to be a Whippet X in CE plastic. KC Whippets were different. They were made with the same stuff that KC Rocs are made from. There might have been Ken Climo signiture Whippets in CE also.




Yes, I have several KC Whippets, and I know it isnt the same plastic. I just dont recall ever seeing a CE Whippet, and have never seen one on Ebay. Im pretty sure the writing is the same on the back as the KCs. I was just curious if Im going after a KC/SE/CE Whippet, or something really rare, like a Champion Edition Whippet. It would have to be a very limited run if thats what it was, no?

Its not uncommon for people to basically lie, or think they have something they dont on Ebay. Especially with Innova plastic. It would be nice to have some sort of Innova Timeline to be able to pinpoint the rarer discs. If it were someone like Mark Molnar selling it, I wouldnt question it.

Thanks.



Mark might be the guy to ask about this disc. He deals with older collectable stuff like this.

Alright.

How about the discription on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/FIRST-RUN-CE-EAGLE-172G-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ180089176762QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I remember our clubs first shipment of CE Eagles. There were Red and Dayglo, but I was told that the Dayglos came because Innova couldnt fill the orders with just the Reds, as the demand was to high, and we ordered late, just as the second batch was being done.

Im sorry to bug you about this stuff. I just have tons of old CE and hate people mis-representing what they are selling. Theres always the chance Im wrong, so I like to try to find out from the source.

Thanks Dave, either way.



The first run did come in Yellow and Red. I believe they were normal, not X type Eagles too.

"hook" as in X-mold?

I have 3 1st runs in front of me. 2 red, 1 lime. All are ELs. Have a Dayglo similar to the one on Ebay as well from our clubs first CE Eagle shipment. It has the bead.

Were the CE Eagles done "x"-"L" on every other run or during the same runs?



I believe the first run was L. The second run could have been, and probably was X.

Dave,
I love the Z Reapers flight path, but it hurts my pinkie finger when I hold on to it. (I know it sounds weird). I am wondering if innova has any discs that the flight paths are related to the Reapers and very similar. If so what is it?
Thanks...



I dont think Dave has ever thrown a Reaper!



No, I haven't, but if anyone else wants to answer the question, feel free.

Hi there.

Lately, I have been tinkering with the Aviar molds. I recently got a KC Aviar (it doesn't have how many years he was on the win count, though).

Is the KC Aviar supposed to have a "concave" flight plate? The one I have doesn't have a flat flight plate...it kind of slightly sinks downwards.

I am really liking the more overstable flight of the KC Aviar and I love the stiffness & grip. The JK was getting a little slick for me.

Just wondering if I got an oddball disc or if it is supposed to be that way.

Thanks.



No, it is not supposed to be that way. For a while, about a year ago or so, all of the Aviars started acting that way over time. They would start out flat and end up slightly, (or more), concave. We had to switch materials to compensate. The newest KCs might be slightly overcompensated. They are a little domey to prevent them from sinking (being concave), with use and over time.

Hey Dave,

If I go buy a new TeeRex, what will I be buying? The first run TRX, or the new Teerex X?



Most likely you will be buying a regular TeeRex if you get a Star. The DX run, which is X, is probably already in circulation. The Star run was done before the change to X, so it won't be in general circulation until after the next run. This won't happen very soon. The Champion and Star X versions are currently available in TFR. (Tournament fund raising.)

Thanks Dave. ;)

Dave,
With the Bulldog gone will there ever be a disc to fill the SLOW and very overstable niche. The Gator is nice but it's still a little fast. Why was the Bulldog cancelled? Thanks

You can try a ryno. The champion ones are slower and very overstable.

I think the Bulldog and the Hydra were similar, so they were combined and are now sold under the Hydra name only. Dave, correct me if I'm wrong.

You can try a ryno. The champion ones are slower and very overstable.



Champ Rhynos are stable? You got to be kidding me?

You can try a ryno. The champion ones are slower and very overstable.



Champ Rhynos are stable? You got to be kidding me?



He's not kidding...any rhyno over 170'ish is <font color="purple">overstable </font>
Try the star rhyno. A great overstable putter/driver at any speed.

I think the Bulldog and the Hydra were similar, so they were combined and are now sold under the Hydra name only. Dave, correct me if I'm wrong.



Yes, the two discs were too similar to have both. The Hydra now is essentially a Hydra X. The point was to have a disc that came out of the hand a little easier than a putter, and a little faster approach disc than a putter. We wanted high speed stable without too much low speed over stablility.

I don't know Mark, I got a new Champion Rhyno right when I got to FL, and from the tee it usually flipped flat even with quite a bit of hyzer, and it would not come out as early as I'd hoped. ESP Banger GT is more overstable.

Dave,

While browsing my local Play it Again Sports today, I found some x-out Champion Aviars that perplexed me. They were all max weight, beadless, bright yellow opaque plastic, with only "175" written on the bottom. Are these by chance older CE Aviars? This was my first time coming across a beadless champ Aviar, so I was just wondering if this was a limited run or otherwise rare disc.

Thanks,
Rusty

Dave,

While browsing my local Play it Again Sports today, I found some x-out Champion Aviars that perplexed me. They were all max weight, beadless, bright yellow opaque plastic, with only "175" written on the bottom. Are these by chance older CE Aviars? This was my first time coming across a beadless champ Aviar, so I was just wondering if this was a limited run or otherwise rare disc.

Thanks,
Rusty



Most likely they are Qmegas.

Dave,

While browsing my local Play it Again Sports today, I found some x-out Champion Aviars that perplexed me. They were all max weight, beadless, bright yellow opaque plastic, with only "175" written on the bottom. Are these by chance older CE Aviars? This was my first time coming across a beadless champ Aviar, so I was just wondering if this was a limited run or otherwise rare disc.

Thanks,
Rusty



Most likely they are Qmegas.



That's what I was thinking. I don't go in to PIAS too often, but everytime I do they always have piles of X-out Qmegas.

You can try a ryno. The champion ones are slower and very overstable.



Champ Rhynos are stable? You got to be kidding me?



He's not kidding...any rhyno over 170'ish is <font color="purple">overstable </font>
Try the star rhyno. A great overstable putter/driver at any speed.



From someone who knows Rhynos I would tell you go with the Pro to putt with and keep a champ or star for your midrange up shots. Try a Gator for up shots 200 feet and out and Rhynos for 200 and in. I would suggest to find an understable putter for turnovers cause they are hard to turn over short range and that could get you in trouble.

Dave,

While browsing my local Play it Again Sports today, I found some x-out Champion Aviars that perplexed me. They were all max weight, beadless, bright yellow opaque plastic, with only "175" written on the bottom. Are these by chance older CE Aviars? This was my first time coming across a beadless champ Aviar, so I was just wondering if this was a limited run or otherwise rare disc.

Thanks,
Rusty



If they are really beadless, they are new, and may be mis-marked Star. If they have a small bead, they may be Sirius Omegas or an older run of some type of CE plastic. There should be some kind of identification initials for Omegas, but not necessarily for an Aviar, unless it is Star.

I don't know Mark, I got a new Champion Rhyno right when I got to FL, and from the tee it usually flipped flat even with quite a bit of hyzer, and it would not come out as early as I'd hoped. ESP Banger GT is more overstable.


Well Mikey...that's where your game and My Game differ. I flip the heck out of those esp bangers and have to force a rhyno over....
BTW, give me a call...I don't have your florida number in my phone for some reason! :confused:

Dave how many of these new Ontario Roc are goinf to be produced

Dave how many of these new Ontario Roc are goinf to be produced



Sorry,I thought I answered this. I must have not hit the right button.

DX Ontarios will be produced for custom stamping and TFR as long there is a demand.
USDGC Ontario (Star or Champion) Rocs will be produced for the USDGC only if there is a demand.

You might have mentioned this before, so sorry.. but what made you decide to switch from the small bead aviars to the beadless? And will the small beads ever come back? Finally have you done a new run of glow aviars in the beadless mold yet?

Thanks

You might have mentioned this before, so sorry.. but what made you decide to switch from the small bead aviars to the beadless? And will the small beads ever come back? Finally have you done a new run of glow aviars in the beadless mold yet?
Thanks



The big bead was replaced with a new big bead as it was worn out. The small bead was getting old, so we replaced it at the same time. We went to the original beadless design as an homage to thee original, but also to smooth out the bottom of the rim. The small bead is still used for Omega putters.

We have not run beadless glow as yet. It is not on the schedule yet either.

Dave,
Can you give us an idea of what is on the schedule for the next couple of months, especially any new or re-release discs? Thanks.

How does the TeeRex X will compare to the Max in the tests you guys have done?

Star Roadrunners please.

Champ is too slick when wet.

tanks man!

Dave, when will you be running Glo Big Beads again, getting low.

Dave,
Can you give us an idea of what is on the schedule for the next couple of months, especially any new or re-release discs? Thanks.



Big bead and Champion Aviars and Ontario Rocs are the only things I can think of off the bat. The Champion Aviars are in a new mold with new material. They feel and fly much better than the original release. Nothing new right now.

How does the TeeRex X will compare to the Max in the tests you guys have done?



The TeeRex X is pretty much right in the middle between a Max and a Wraith. Before the adjustment, the TeeRex was too close to the Wraith, and would even overlap on occasion.

Dave, when will you be running Glo Big Beads again, getting low.



Hadn't planned on running any, but I will see what I can do for you big boy.

Big bead and Champion Aviars and Ontario Rocs are the only things I can think of off the bat. The Champion Aviars are in a new mold with new material. They feel and fly much better than the original release. Nothing new right now.

[/QUOTE]

Example of new material? Would these be closer to the original CE Avairs?

Guesstimate on when we may have 12x ROCS? ;)

Hey Dave, what would you recommend for a thumber/ tomahawk/ hammer disc?

I'm not Dave, but Firebird, Monster, or Max

Hey Dave, what would you recommend for a thumber/ tomahawk/ hammer disc?



I suggest asking the man who posted before you.

KMACK?

Hey Dave, what would you recommend for a thumber/ tomahawk/ hammer disc?



Here's how I think the response to this question will go:

Dave D: If I were you, I would ask Brian Schweberger.
You: Thanks Dave. Hey Schweb, what do you use for over the top stuff?
Schweb: Firebirds. (He'd probably add in some TTs in a bunch of places, too, even if there's no Ts in his answer.)

Big bead and Champion Aviars and Ontario Rocs are the only things I can think of off the bat. The Champion Aviars are in a new mold with new material. They feel and fly much better than the original release. Nothing new right now.



Example of new material? Would these be closer to the original CE Avairs?

[/QUOTE]

I don't remember the material on the original CE Aviars, sorry.

Dave, I thought Super Rocs (http://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/index.php?p=product&amp;id=556&amp;parent=32) weren't coming back this year?!?

I ordered 3. :D

How's the plastic on these?

Guesstimate on when we may have 12x ROCS? ;)

No guess at this point. I know we did a run last autumn, but they didn't get the new stamp, and they were all weights except heavies.

I don't remember the material on the original CE Aviars, sorry.


The same stuff as the 2001 USDGC CE Rocs.

Hey Dave, what would you recommend for a thumber/ tomahawk/ hammer disc?



Firebird, or a flat Monster X

Guesstimate on when we may have 12x ROCS? ;)



Bump.

Schweb: Firebirds. (He'd probably add in some TTs in a bunch of places, too, even if there's no Ts in his answer.)



FirebirTTs
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

ChamTT or STTar FirebirTTs

Would that be a "domey" firebird or flat? I usually get a better triple flip thumber or single lay-over thomahawk with a domey disc, but that's only in air flight. A flat "original pro", but now champion plastic gives me a more predictable/controllable skip on the ground.

Dave, I thought Super Rocs (http://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/index.php?p=product&id=556&parent=32) weren't coming back this year?!?

I ordered 3. :D

How's the plastic on these?



Same as the last batch.

What is a triple-flip thumber?

you mean you have never heard of it
lol
i was wondering the what it was as well but thought i should just leave it alone.
for some reason i dont think he knows what he TTalkin about

Holding the bottom of the disc in your right hand as a normal thumber, and getting the flip with the boTTom to the right, then the boTTom flips back to the left. Now what happens next always differs for me depending on type/mold of disc. Some disc's top will fall back down for a nice skip, others will instead have enough momentum to carry the top of the disc upwards, over, and usually into a nose dive.

Hey Dave saw the site and the star trek touch was nice, may be you should have Dave as the Borg King, and have the Queen there that would have been sweet. Or the next driver should be made for Dave and called The Borg.

Dave,

I recently acquired a 150 class dx teerex. It is a black x-out with a gold golden state classic stamp. The plastic is like no other dx i have ever seen. It seems to be close to the stuff from latitude 64. It is very rigid and durable. The mold also seems to be very domey as you can "pop the top" of the disc. Is this a special run dx? Also, is it available in any other molds? I really like it! Thanks.

Dave,

I recently acquired a 150 class dx teerex. It is a black x-out with a gold golden state classic stamp. The plastic is like no other dx i have ever seen. It seems to be close to the stuff from latitude 64. It is very rigid and durable. The mold also seems to be very domey as you can "pop the top" of the disc. Is this a special run dx? Also, is it available in any other molds? I really like it! Thanks.



It was part of the first few experimental DX TXs/ first run. The current run is not like that. The new run is not as rigid, nor as domey.

Hey Dave. Are the EXP1 and Banshee the same exact mold?

Hey Dave. Are the EXP1 and Banshee the same exact mold?



No, they are similar. The EXP is an L version of the Banshee.

Dave,

I recently acquired a 150 class dx teerex. It is a black x-out with a gold golden state classic stamp. The plastic is like no other dx i have ever seen. It seems to be close to the stuff from latitude 64. It is very rigid and durable. The mold also seems to be very domey as you can "pop the top" of the disc. Is this a special run dx? Also, is it available in any other molds? I really like it! Thanks.



It was part of the first few experimental DX TXs/ first run. The current run is not like that. The new run is not as rigid, nor as domey.



Is there any chance of this plastic making out in any other molds? Maybe as a CFR or something? It is crazy durable, and has decent grip. I would love to fill my bag with this stuff!

At the risk of sounding like Donny begging for Star Whippets, when will DX Starfire-Xs make their way through the schedule???

Dave, Thanks for all you do!!! I am curious why there is no plans for the Tee Rex in Pro plastic? I think this would be a great disc.

HOLY MACKEREL!!!!

I LOVE THE 12x KC AVIARS!!!!!

I was replacing my 11x'ers quite frequently because over time the top of them would start sinking in losing that float, now that the 12x'ers are more of a dome, they give me that much more float...I've only got to putt with them for one day but they ROCK!!!!

Thanks Dave! :cool:

HOLY MACKEREL!!!!

I LOVE THE 12x KC AVIARS!!!!!

I was replacing my 11x'ers quite frequently because over time the top of them would start sinking in losing that float, now that the 12x'ers are more of a dome, they give me that much more float...I've only got to putt with them for one day but they ROCK!!!!

Thanks Dave! :cool:



Have you tried the 12x's outside of the putting range? I use 11x's off the tee and for approaches and am curious to see how the 12x's do compared to the 11x's. I will be getting a bunch of new plastic next week when I go to marshall street and new KC aviars are on my shopping list.

Dave,

I recently acquired a 150 class dx teerex. It is a black x-out with a gold golden state classic stamp. The plastic is like no other dx i have ever seen. It seems to be close to the stuff from latitude 64. It is very rigid and durable. The mold also seems to be very domey as you can "pop the top" of the disc. Is this a special run dx? Also, is it available in any other molds? I really like it! Thanks.



It was part of the first few experimental DX TXs/ first run. The current run is not like that. The new run is not as rigid, nor as domey.



Is there any chance of this plastic making out in any other molds? Maybe as a CFR or something? It is crazy durable, and has decent grip. I would love to fill my bag with this stuff!



That is the new DX formula we started using about two years ago in certain molds. We have been trying to work it in for the whole line, but it is very difficult to mold consistently with it. I believe Rocs were the first to be molded in this stuff, but they turned out too domey. We are still working on the formula. Our goal is to incorporate it into the entire DX line eventually.

Dave,

just got a few of the new DX ontario rocs this weekend. and they are awesome. thanks cant wait to try some of the champion ontario's when they get released.

: ) :

At the risk of sounding like Donny begging for Star Whippets, when will DX Starfire-Xs make their way through the schedule???



taking the ^ same ^ risk -- would you please consider offering Pro Orcs as a TFR disc? also, any ETA on the long awaited,
one year delayed, Star Roadrunners?

At the risk of sounding like Donny begging for Star Whippets, when will DX Starfire-Xs make their way through the schedule???



Not sure at this point. They may not work in DX.

At the risk of sounding like Donny begging for Star Whippets, when will DX Starfire-Xs make their way through the schedule???



taking the ^ same ^ risk -- would you please consider offering Pro Orcs as a TFR disc? also, any ETA on the long awaited,
one year delayed, Star Roadrunners?



All Pro drivers will be eventually discontinued unless we can find a new supply. Last to go will be the Pro Wraith. Pro Orcs are already gone. We should have a slot for Roadrunnners this month.

where can i get the new dx ontario rocs and how do they fly compared to rancho dx?

ontario rocs (http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=On_Roc&PHPSESSID=22c8598e39b0d689ebada1a16ad634fa)

All Pro drivers will be eventually discontinued unless we can find a new supply. Last to go will be the Pro Wraith. Pro Orcs are already gone. We should have a slot for Roadrunnners this month.



NOOOOO
Pro Wraith was the best plastic for the wraith so far
Only problem was that the first time the disc got dinged it would get too flippy.
I do like the DX versions of the drivers cause it only costs 7 bucks to replace them.
Is the mix for star plastic going to change now since you can't get pro plastic or was it a special plastic just for pro drivers.
This whole time I thought Star was a mix of champ and pro plastic, I'm probably wrong. Alot of people seem to think thats the case.

Will there be any TFR/CFR release of Star Classic Rocs this year, or possibly a general release? Thanks

All Pro drivers will be eventually discontinued unless we can find a new supply. Last to go will be the Pro Wraith.



Well, I guess that's bad news-good news. Pro Wraiths are my favorite disc.

At the risk of sounding like Donny begging for Star Whippets, when will DX Starfire-Xs make their way through the schedule???



taking the ^ same ^ risk -- would you please consider offering Pro Orcs as a TFR disc? also, any ETA on the long awaited,
one year delayed, Star Roadrunners?



All Pro drivers will be eventually discontinued unless we can find a new supply. Last to go will be the Pro Wraith. Pro Orcs are already gone. We should have a slot for Roadrunnners this month.



WHAT!?!?!?! NOT THE PRO WRAITH!!! These are my main drivers. The other plastics are too stable. I love how a new one flies straight, and slowly beat in to get a nice turn.

Everyone get off your butts and help Dave find a new source of Pro plastic!!! Think of the children! Oh want someone please think of the children!?! They'll be missing out on a great driver in great plastic.

Borrow some X plastic from Discraft if you have to. Well, when do you think this will happen? I better start buying all the Pro Wraith's I can.

where can i get the new dx ontario rocs and how do they fly compared to rancho dx?



The DX Ontarios are available for custom hot stamping and tournament fundraising. They fly straighter than a Rancho with less low speed overstability.

Will there be any TFR/CFR release of Star Classic Rocs this year, or possibly a general release? Thanks



Star Classic Rocs are still available in the TFR program.

All Pro drivers will be eventually discontinued unless we can find a new supply.


Is there a difference between Innova's Pro plastic and Millennium's Millennium plastic? If there isn't a difference, then what will become of their "basic" discs?

Or you could pm Donkeyote for the ontarios. Good shooting at GCD Kevin.

Thanks, It will be nice to see some MEN's OPEN cash next to Courtney's name on the stat page this year.

The baby was draining Courtney's energy level that last round in the rain and mud, but it was fun to take out some of the guys....

Now what about those Ontarios? I NEED ALL OF THEM :D

All Pro drivers will be eventually discontinued unless we can find a new supply.


Is there a difference between Innova's Pro plastic and Millennium's Millennium plastic? If there isn't a difference, then what will become of their "basic" discs?



The material that is common is the problematic to get material. Millennium will have first priority with the material we have left. After that, we are going to have to figure something out. Millennium's supply will last through this year at least.

So how long do you think you'll be making pro wraiths if you can't get more material?

So how much longer will you be making pro wraiths with the plastic you have now?

So how much longer will you be able to make Pro Wraiths?



:D

Is the mix for star plastic going to change now since you can't get pro plastic or was it a special plastic just for pro drivers.
This whole time I thought Star was a mix of champ and pro plastic, I'm probably wrong. Alot of people seem to think thats the case.



Star plastic and Pro plastic are different. The lack of Pro will not affect Star at all.

So how much longer will you be able to make Pro Wraiths?



:D



Another year, one more year, enough for a year or so. :)

So how long do you think you'll be making pro wraiths if you can't get more material?


Don't let Matt buy anymore Pro Wraiths. He'll just throw them in the water! ;)

Why is it that only the drivers will be discontinued?

All Pro drivers will be eventually discontinued unless we can find a new supply.


Is there a difference between Innova's Pro plastic and Millennium's Millennium plastic? If there isn't a difference, then what will become of their "basic" discs?



The material that is common is the problematic to get material. Millennium will have first priority with the material we have left. After that, we are going to have to figure something out. Millennium's supply will last through this year at least.



Somebody on another page asked if this concerned just drivers, but I would believe this affects mids and putters also.

So. Does this problematic plastic affect anything else? Like the KC or JK Aviars or the Omega SS.

And. Would it be possible to soften the Star and Sirius blends for the mids and putters. Just a little. Especially if the Pro / Millennium blends are going away. - Or would this require some of the problematic plastic?

That's exactly why I need more--I need to throw more into the lake at Fountain Hills!

Hey Dave,

Whats going on with the INNColor Process? I heard a rumor all orders are on freeze for now! Can you shed any light?

So. Does this problematic plastic affect anything else? Like the KC or JK Aviars or the Omega SS.

And. Would it be possible to soften the Star and Sirius blends for the mids and putters. Just a little. Especially if the Pro / Millennium blends are going away. - Or would this require some of the problematic plastic?



KCs JKs and SS's are made of a different plastic.
Softness is not an issue. Star and Champion can be made softer and be used in mids and putters.

Hey Dave,

Whats going on with the INNColor Process? I heard a rumor all orders are on freeze for now! Can you shed any light?



The INNColor process is on hold for now. One of the pieces of equipment used is no longer operable. We might be able to use the older process at some point to do orders on hold. We are investigating a new way of doing the INNColor to replace the old way.

Why is it that only the drivers will be discontinued?



This plastic is only used with drivers in our line.

Is the Wraith X (marked as TRX) a mold/model that will be made again? Wondering if I should stock up.

Jerry

Is the Wraith X (marked as TRX) a mold/model that will be made again? Wondering if I should stock up.

Jerry


It depends upon the response to the disc. It may be dropped altogether, kept where it is now to help with tournament fundraising, become a new disc, replace the current Wraith, etc. My money is on leaving it where it is now, but writing Wraith X on the next batch.

All Pro drivers will be eventually discontinued unless we can find a new supply. Last to go will be the Pro Wraith. Pro Orcs are already gone. We should have a slot for Roadrunnners this month.



NOOOOO
Pro Wraith was the best plastic for the wraith so far
Only problem was that the first time the disc got dinged it would get too flippy.



Being less touchy (more controllable) the Pro Orcs were even better than the Pro Wraiths but of course they had to go to make way for the faster, shinier stuff. The Pro versions of each seemed to have the most glide and distance. true, the Pro plastic did beat up quite fast, especially in wide-rimmed sharp-edged distance drivers, but when beat those discs were great for backhand rollers or to give to newbies.

i would love to see some of the Pro plastic stashed away for TFR discs -- especially if it is really going to be unavailable or unprocured. i would also like to see Pro Orcs made available as TFR discs as part of that scenario -- but last i checked Innova doesn't recognize me as a consultant :eek: :D

someone (please) slip a few Pro Orcs into Sandstrom's hands next time there's a big D competition ;)

i'm definitely looking forward to Star Roadrunners and am glad i did not resort to throwing my SB Roadrunner.

I agree. A brand new pro orc was a great distance disc. They lost a lot of D once they got a couple big scrapes or a solid tree hit, though.

My first run Pro Orcs were super understable until they hit a tree.

This plastic is only used with drivers in our line.



Hey Dave,

I got a laundry list of questions in light of recent events:

1) KC Pro Aviars will or will not be affected?

2) Whippets will now be released in only DX? Any more runs for Pro Whippets?

3) Are Star Wraiths typically more overstable than Pro Wraiths?

Hey Dave,

I got a laundry list of questions in light of recent events:

1) KC Pro Aviars will or will not be affected? Not affected

2) Whippets will now be released in only DX? Yes or Star/Champion for TFR

Any more runs for Pro Whippets?

No

3) Are Star Wraiths typically more overstable than Pro Wraiths?

Yes