I was wondering how the MAX compares to a monster i throw champion monsters for all my stable drives my monster isn't that beat up but it is starting to turnover more and more and i was told a MAX is like an 11 speed monster is this true?



Yes, that is basically true. The Max isn't a crazy overstable disc. It is much more like a real long Firebird with a pretty strong overstable finish. It really depends on how fast you can throw. If you can't throw 400 ft., it will seem pretty overstable, but if you can throw 400, you will get a pretty long straight flight until it starts to get overstable.

Dave,

I recently picked up a new star stingray as did a buddy of mine around the same time. When we were on the course the other day i was inspecting his and noticed significant differences. Mine is really domey but his is basically a flat top disc. I have yet to throw his, but besides the obvious domey-ness, what are the differences is their flight characteristics? These 2 discs are so different its almost like its not even the same disc as opposed to just a different mold. Thanks in advance


The flat-top Star Stingray is a mold variation used temporarily while the standard mold was being repaired. I believe the top of the mold is from the Cobra. Now that the standard mold is repaired it is being used exclusively to mold Star Stingrays. No more flat tops are planned for molding.

It took a while for me but once I beat up my flattop it turned into an excellent roller. The disc turns very well during high speed flight. I also noticed though that (probably because it is Star plastic) it will definitely fade out if you allow the disc to reach slow speeds. This is in contrast to a DX or KC Roc that is really worn in that will hold a turn for a very long time or even resist fade completely. The stingray will fade.

I have found in Champion plastic (i haven't thrown the domey star stingray) that the standard "domey" stingray mold is actually pretty stable and will be straighter at high speed. The extra dome gives it more glide and floating characteristics especially at slower speeds. It will eventually fade out as well. I think the flattop is more understable during high speed flight.
(correct me please Dave if I am mistaken)

Dave what are the chances of re-running old(retro) molds from years past in star or champion...

Old mold circa 1995 whippet in star ?... hopefully

Dave,

I recently picked up a new star stingray as did a buddy of mine around the same time. When we were on the course the other day i was inspecting his and noticed significant differences. Mine is really domey but his is basically a flat top disc. I have yet to throw his, but besides the obvious domey-ness, what are the differences is their flight characteristics? These 2 discs are so different its almost like its not even the same disc as opposed to just a different mold. Thanks in advance


The flat-top Star Stingray is a mold variation used temporarily while the standard mold was being repaired. I believe the top of the mold is from the Cobra. Now that the standard mold is repaired it is being used exclusively to mold Star Stingrays. No more flat tops are planned for molding.

It took a while for me but once I beat up my flattop it turned into an excellent roller. The disc turns very well during high speed flight. I also noticed though that (probably because it is Star plastic) it will definitely fade out if you allow the disc to reach slow speeds. This is in contrast to a DX or KC Roc that is really worn in that will hold a turn for a very long time or even resist fade completely. The stingray will fade.

I have found in Champion plastic (i haven't thrown the domey star stingray) that the standard "domey" stingray mold is actually pretty stable and will be straighter at high speed. The extra dome gives it more glide and floating characteristics especially at slower speeds. It will eventually fade out as well. I think the flattop is more understable during high speed flight.
(correct me please Dave if I am mistaken)



Most of what you have said is correct. The flattop versions of both the Stingray and Cobra are no longer being produced as the original versions have taken their place. This is true for all plastic types.

Dave what are the chances of re-running old(retro) molds from years past in star or champion...

Old mold circa 1995 whippet in star ?... hopefully



Chances are okay, but the mold has to exist, there has to be a demand, and we have to have excess molding time and storage space. The original Whippet doesn't exist anymore. Just 2nd generation and Whippet X.

Most of what you have said is correct. The flattop versions of both the Stingray and Cobra are no longer being produced as the original versions have taken their place. This is true for all plastic types.



Yup, and all us fans of the Champ Cobra cry a little every day about that. :( ;) Most folks gravitated to the 'yote I guess, but for my money the Champ Cobra mold is much more versatile. Got a few stashed aside, and I'm old so may not need many of those. Feel sorry for the younguns though. :D

I am wondering if the 11x kc pro eagles are as stable or more stable than the 10x kc pro eagles?

the regular 10x eagles are stable, the hybrid 10x were overstable. the 11x eagle is overstable like the hybrid type 10x's.

: ) :

what is the difference between regular and hybrid

regular is straight kc. hybrid is part regular part ce

Don't make me start a petition. Please bring back the Whippet X tomorrow. I'll settle for a star plastic, but would prefer the slick top / grippy bottom champion version. I'd also take a slick top / slick bottom version over a star. Basically in a nutshell, just BRING BACK THE WHIPPET X!!

I used to throw Whippets. But since they stopped making them the same way, I just found other things to take the Whippet's place. Banshees, EXPs, Beat FireBirds are all so close that I'm surprised you guys keep this Whippet stuff alive.

I don't know if this has been asked, but...

What is your bag set up Dave?

Has get two Star Skeeters. Very nice disc I must say (and plastic. Very straigt and no fade. Go Skeet go

I don't know if this has been asked, but...

What is your bag set up Dave?



Two DX Aviar putters, a P2, Star Shark, Champion Coyote, Viking, and Leopard, two Star Wraiths, two Star Max, one Star Starfire, one Star Roadrunner, and a Champion Beast roller. I might also carry something else depending on the course I was playing. The putters, mids, fairway drivers, and roller are all max weight. The long range drivers are 167 to 172 gms.

how would you compare & contrast the Star Shark and the Champion Coyote?

how would you compare & contrast the Star Shark and the Champion Coyote?



They both grip similarly. The Coyote has a little turn and flies straighter with a little more glide. The Shark is much more stable into the wind and has no turn. I use the Coyote to stay on a narrow fairways, and use the Shark for medium range approaches in the wind. The Shark, by way of contrast with the Rocs, is less overstable than a Rancho, and more high speed stable than an Ontario.

Dave D, I seem to recall your previous putter of choice as a JK (BB)...now you list Aviar P&A(s). Your reason(s) for the switch? Thanks.
doc

Dave D, I seem to recall your previous putter of choice as a JK (BB)...now you list Aviar P&A(s). Your reason(s) for the switch? Thanks.
doc



The Aviar P&A has a straighter flight at low speeds. The JK was better for everything else, but I got tired of missing putts bouncing off chains left side. Now, the P2 has taken the JKs place for driving and approaching as it has the same high speed stability, but less overstability at low speeds. I still may go back to the JK for drives, approaches, and wind putts, but so far, the P2 is a winner for me.

I am curious, what is the P2? Is it a new disc? Did I miss something? Thanks

Two questions
1 - Ordered a 12x Wraith and was just wondering if any other disc will have the 12x designation. A TeeBird seems very appropriate!
2 - Love the Banshees and wondered if there's enough interest for it to show up in Star plastic.

I am curious, what is the P2? Is it a new disc? Did I miss something? Thanks



The P2 is a relatively new disc we make for Discmania.

Two questions
1 - Ordered a 12x Wraith and was just wondering if any other disc will have the 12x designation. A TeeBird seems very appropriate!
2 - Love the Banshees and wondered if there's enough interest for it to show up in Star plastic.



Right now the 12X is on Aviars Rocs and Wraiths. We don't have any plans to put it on any other disc at the moment.

If we made any Star Banshees, they would probably have to go to the fundraiser program.

so the 12x rocs are out? how would you compare them to the 11x's?

Two questions
1 - Ordered a 12x Wraith and was just wondering if any other disc will have the 12x designation. A TeeBird seems very appropriate!
2 - Love the Banshees and wondered if there's enough interest for it to show up in Star plastic.



The Wraith is the only new disc KC throws much. All of his other discs he has been throwing for years (CE and 10x Teebirds, CE Firebirds, 10x Aviars and Rocs).

Two questions
1 - Ordered a 12x Wraith and was just wondering if any other disc will have the 12x designation. A TeeBird seems very appropriate!
2 - Love the Banshees and wondered if there's enough interest for it to show up in Star plastic.



Apparently we are going to do 12X Eagles, TeeBirds, and Firebird all in Champion. I don't think any have been stamped yet.

so the 12x rocs are out? how would you compare them to the 11x's?


I just found out that the new stamp has not been used yet, though it has to be soon as we are almost out of heavy weights. The remaining KC Rocs have two different stamps on them. The 11X and the more generic KC Roc with no number.

I don't know how to compare the runs at this point.

I am curious, what is the P2? Is it a new disc? Did I miss something? Thanks



The P2 is a relatively new disc we make for Discmania.



Dave, is the P2 the small bead or no bead? Is the D plastic the same as your DX? Thanks, I love the small bead for straight or turnover shots.

The P2 has no bead but is the taller profile like a Aviar Driver or JK mold.

The plastic is like DX but a little softer/grippier. There is a different coloring agent that makes the colors really bright (the white is as bright as STAR plastic, not sure how the rest look). The plastic feels great and they are more stable at high speeds than the P1.

I am curious, what is the P2? Is it a new disc? Did I miss something? Thanks



The P2 is a relatively new disc we make for Discmania.



Dave, is the P2 the small bead or no bead? Is the D plastic the same as your DX? Thanks, I love the small bead for straight or turnover shots.



The P2 is a unique Model based on the driver Aviar mold. It is beadless however.
The D plastic for the P1 and P2 is different than our DX. The D plastic for the MD1 and CD1 is similar to our DX.

Dave, I don't see any P2's at discgolfvalues. Will they be available to the public soon?

Dave, I don't see any P2's at discgolfvalues. Will they be available to the public soon?



That's odd. They have been certified since March. You might give Mark at discgolfvalues a call or email. He knows what is going on. It might just be the main portion of the run hasn't been stamped. I know the P1s were stamped, I guess I assumed the P2s had too.

Hey Dave,

The DevilHawk name is still available for a disc. You should think about using it for one of your new, overstable, fast, beefy sharp edged bad boys ;)

I used to throw Whippets. But since they stopped making them the same way, I just found other things to take the Whippet's place. Banshees, EXPs, Beat FireBirds are all so close that I'm surprised you guys keep this Whippet stuff alive.



I used to complain about Whippets. A friend at Innova sent me a Champion Banshee which he described as a beat in Whippet-X, basically. 1000 approaches and thumbers later, its still in my bag. Thanks Dave.

....Still wouldnt mind seeing a CFR Champion or Star Whippet-X, but would be real happy with a CFR Star Banshee.

Dave and others--how do you see the dx kite and the dx leopard differing in flight? thanks

Dave and others--how do you see the dx kite and the dx leopard differing in flight? thanks



Although the rating numbers don't reflect it well, the Kite has more glide and less speed than the Leopard. Also, the Kite seems to have less return, once it has turned over. The Leopard throws more like a driver, and the Kite throws more like a mid range.

Dave,
Looking at the other color discs of the period, were there any blue or purple Coupe's made? I have orange, pink, yellow, and white.

Also, do you know anyone that would have a Mungazine stamped Eagle for sale? Mark Horn?

Thx for your time.

Dave,
Looking at the other color discs of the period, were there any blue or purple Coupe's made? I have orange, pink, yellow, and white.

Also, do you know anyone that would have a Mungazine stamped Eagle for sale? Mark Horn?

Thx for your time.



I don't think we made any blue or purple as a run, but there might have a few odd balls. Carlton Howard might know if he ever had any.

The Mungazine Eagle would have been Mark Horn originally. Mark Molnar might know something. He had an Eagle collection.

Post deleted by Magilla

Hey Dave...

What new & possibly upcoming disc would have "GO" on the bottom... :confused:
;)

Goblin maybe?

Just what we've all been waiting for: the STAR Gopher!

Dave, Also, do you know anyone that would have a Mungazine stamped Eagle for sale? Mark Horn




The Mungazine Eagle would have been Mark Horn originally. Mark Molnar might know something. He had an Eagle collection.



Dave,
I got a Mungazine that Stork used from Mark a few years back. In fact, he had you sign a red bald Eagle that you used for me. Thx for the help.

Hey Dave...

What new & possibly upcoming disc would have "GO" on the bottom... :confused:
;)



They are not new, but Goblins carry the GO designation.

Disc Abbreviations (http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/abbrev.html)

I already asked Dave about this and he didn't remember but I was hoping someone else would. Innova made a disc called the Hammerhead, not to be confused with the Hammer. This was a mid-range disc that would float. I do not see it on the PDGA approved disc list and I was wondering if it was ever approved? Its measurements are similar to the Hammer, so could it "share" approval with it? Thanks

Oh, I was wondering too if there are any more discontinued Innova discs out there that are not on the approval list? I am working on a collection of every basic mold that Innova has ever made, so that is why I am curious about this. Thanks!

I already asked Dave about this and he didn't remember but I was hoping someone else would. Innova made a disc called the Hammerhead, not to be confused with the Hammer. This was a mid-range disc that would float. I do not see it on the PDGA approved disc list and I was wondering if it was ever approved? Its measurements are similar to the Hammer, so could it "share" approval with it? Thanks



"Hammerheads" were around in the early 90's.....

I had 1 when I started out in '91...It had a "Hammerhead Shark" as the stock stamp...
If I remember correctly it was about the size of a Roc BUT had an "accentuated" Viper type of Rim......Never heard about or tried out the "floating" properties, though... :D
Im also pretty sure it was Approved....But cannot verify that..

I had an ace with a hammerhead. bought it as a joke, on my 5th hole I played, BAM! got an ace and retired it.

Oh, I was wondering too if there are any more discontinued Innova discs out there that are not on the approval list? I am working on a collection of every basic mold that Innova has ever made, so that is why I am curious about this. Thanks!



Mirage (aka premie Aviar)
Cheetah 2
"2500"
Gremlin
Pulsar
Raptor

Vegan Ray,

Thanks for the reply. Do you know if any of the discs you listed were ever produced? I know the Gremlin name rings a bell and I know the Pulsar is a catch disc. However, I have never heard of the Raptor, the 2500, the Mirage or the Cheetah 2. Thanks!

I've had a raptor and a cheetah 2. sometimes the cheetah 2 is called a se cheetah. se plastic with a bar stamp. the raptor was only issued for the greatest holes series. only 1000 made I believe. they go for about $15 on ebay. they have no lettering on the bottom. they have, I believe, a swedish hole for the stamp. all the ones I've seen are yellow with a red stamp

Yep; I have one (at least) of each.
Gremlin is re-retooled Ching Sniper
Cheetah 2 is retooled SE Cheetah
"2500" is a prototype retooled 2nd generation Hammer prototype (sorta a Hammer-Roc), which was only run in a test run of 2500
Raptor is sorta a Sannie Roc top/Stingray bottom.
Mirage is premie beadless Aviar
Pulsar is a catch disc

dgdave is correct on his assertions, as well, except that the Raptor has a stamp of Ponderosa (TX) #5.

Thanks, that is all very interesting. I wonder what the odds are of me finding all of these to add to the collection?

raptors pop up petty reguly on ebay and the first bid usually wins.

Thanks, that is all very interesting. I wonder what the odds are of me finding all of these to add to the collection?



Yes, it's possible. You've got to become part detective in your search, and have money / trades. Ray didn't have a 2500 and I didn't have a white Coupe until we traded with each other.

I probably have one of every Innova disc made up thru the 90's. I've been collecting since 1985.

Dave - I have to give Innova a WTF today...I won a CFR raffle this past month and was told I was receiving a USDGC DVD...

considering I purchased 100+ 2006 and 2007 CFR raffle discs...the 2003 USDGC doesn't help me much...

I already have a copy of that 5 YEARS ago...how about sending me last years and I will past this on to someone who doesn't own it..

Why are you giving prizes away that are 4-5 yrs old for a raffle that is current? I heard the '06 DVD is the best ever and hoped to see that in my mail.

I will always still throw Innova, but help a golfer out.

RANT OFF :D:p

Any chance of running a batch of Glow Ontario Rocs Dave? I would be forever indebted!!!



Yes, good idea. We just started running Ontarios today. Thanks.



Available now at discgolfvalues! That's pretty swell. Thanks again Dave!

flynvegas

You wouldn't happen to have any of these discs that you would like to part with would you?

Hey flyvegas,

Sorry to keep asking you so many questions, but do you have any idea what years these discs came out? Thanks!

flynvegas

You wouldn't happen to have any of these discs that you would like to part with would you?



Can't speak for Fly', but I'd almost bet you he'd rather that exchange be via PM. ;)

Thank you for correcting the mistake Innova!

I just called Ray Kroc about a milkshake I didn't like! :D

Talk about taking it to the top! :p

Hey flyvegas,

Sorry to keep asking you so many questions, but do you have any idea what years these discs came out? Thanks!



Here you have info about some of the discs you were asking about:
Cheetah/ Cheetah 2 http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc.aspx?DiscId=1905

2500 http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc.aspx?DiscId=2158

Gremlin http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc.aspx?DiscId=1937

Raptor http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc.aspx?DiscId=1965

I read the comments on the 2500 and it said most were white. The 2 I had were a washed out yellow. Very rare disc.

You can find those others on eBay often at decent prices.

I know you're not going to re-release the san marino roc mold, but what is the reasoning? is the mold broke or wore out or you have another mold that is to similar to the sanny roc? if that's the case, what mold on the market now most closely flys like the sanny rocs? Thanks for all the help Dave

Have you tried the MD1?

Have you tried the MD1?



Good suggestion ... I was going to say that. MD1/D rocks. Ontario Rock top, Shark bottom, great combo ... and the price is right.

I have only tried the "S" line. I like it, but it didn't have a place in my bag between all my rocs. how does the "D" line compare?

flynvegas

You wouldn't happen to have any of these discs that you would like to part with would you?



I have two 2500's, one white and one yellow, I may trade away one of them, I ha�ve to check them out.

Mine's white with yellow "pee stains"; it ain't goin' anywhere for now.

Boy, that shows how bad my eyes are. I thought that was yellow when I sent it to you.

I guess I could say it was a EXTREMELY pale yellow with yellower "pee stains" if it'll help you not lose your driver's license next renewal time. :p

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320112321025&ssPageNam e=ADME:B:EF:US:2

Is this a real "CE" Rhyno? Or is it just a champion? Never heard of any "CE" Rhynos before.

I'm pretty sure that's just champ. I have seen many dyed champ rhynos like this.

I have some of the very first clear plastic Rhyon's. They were released right as Pro lIne / Champion plastic was hitting the courses. I would say it's Champion plastic, not the CE plastic.

I know you're not going to re-release the san marino roc mold, but what is the reasoning? is the mold broke or wore out or you have another mold that is to similar to the sanny roc? if that's the case, what mold on the market now most closely flys like the sanny rocs? Thanks for all the help Dave



The San Marino doesn't exist anymore. The Shark is probably the closest to the San Marino Roc in flight. After that, I would say a slightly beat in Rancho
Roc.

There were Rhynos released with the 2002 Pro Worlds stamp held in August that could of been CE plastic. They were probably molded quite awhile before August. I know there were a lot of CE Classic Rocs released in 2002 because I have a few.

Those were released as CE Rhyno's. They weigh a maximium of 171, maybe 172. Most were unmarked. They came out for one year only. The first ones released had the Huntington Beach Pro/Am stamp. They are super durable. You'll probably only ever need one.
BTW, "Homie" was the national adv. points leader when he passed away in an apartment fire. At first it irked me that Innova would use this stamp for seconds, but so long as people know who he was, Fly on Homie!!!

So there were real "CE" Rhyno's made then? I am still thinking the one i asked about was just a Champ. but i would like to see a CE if some one has a picture.

Mine is a dark green and is under 160g. I still think it's early Champion plastic.

Oh, and it was the same as the Gazelle that was made of the same plastic.

So there were real "CE" Rhyno's made then? I am still thinking the one i asked about was just a Champ. but i would like to see a CE if some one has a picture.



They aren't really CE plastic. They are made from a similar plastic as the last run swoosh stamp "CE TL"s. I've had one in my bag since July 03.
Here's one (http://www.dtworld.com/product_p/g63-gsc.htm)

So there were real "CE" Rhyno's made then? I am still thinking the one i asked about was just a Champ. but i would like to see a CE if some one has a picture.



They aren't really CE plastic. They are made from a similar plastic as the last run swoosh stamp "CE TL"s. I've had one in my bag since July 03.
Here's one (http://www.dtworld.com/product_p/g63-gsc.htm)



That 2003 is definately just Champion plastic. The CE's I've seen are not clear and more like the the 02 USDGC Roc plastic. There were probably others but most have different tourny stamps from 2002. I'll try to add an attachment for one from the 2002 Worlds.

Hmm crazy, I've never heard of opaque CE Rhynos. Those must be nice.

dave, the ontario rocs are very nice, they are new to me but i was hoping that they could be made a permanent part of the innova lineup. thanks

dave When are the sharp bands around the top of your baskets going to be changed? tiered of gettting my discs sliced up by the one thing i have to throw at!

Don't change a thing, your basket is fine.

I remember they used to say the same thing about the number plate on the DGA baskets.

Allow me to clarify...
Those were RELEASED as CE Rhyno's. Like dsPRO said, they are just like the last swoosh CE TL's. It was still called CE back then. They seem a little more durable than the current Champ as I haven't seen any new clear ones.

Don't change a thing, your basket is fine.

I remember they used to say the same thing about the number plate on the DGA baskets.

Dave,
It's nice that those plates are usually now covered with a strip of foam to prevent this damage. Is there any quick fix that you can recommend for courses that already have these disc-damaging yellow bands in place? It is frustrating that my putters have such a short lifespan as I like to throw them for upshots and this damage causes them to change flight characteristics constantly. Not sure why flynvegas felt this is "fine" but if there is an easy, legal fix it would be very helpful to me and the other golfers who play here at Evergreen, thanks.

[/QUOTE]Dave,
It's nice that those plates are usually now covered with a strip of foam to prevent this damage. Is there any quick fix that you can recommend for courses that already have these disc-damaging yellow bands in place? It is frustrating that my putters have such a short lifespan as I like to throw them for upshots and this damage causes them to change flight characteristics constantly. Not sure why flynvegas felt this is "fine" but if there is an easy, legal fix it would be very helpful to me and the other golfers who play here at Evergreen, thanks.

[/QUOTE]

I can't speak for Dave, but I would recommend you start hitting more chains and less metal if you want your putters to live longer :D. However, once you start doing that, you'll probably find that the metal chains "inferior" Innova baskets use will start to eat away at your discs as well, and you'll start calling for rubber or plastic chains as the next order of business . Personally, I prefer the metal bands, because when my putts hit them, the disc has a tendency to drop straight down instead of ramping off or rolling away as with many other basket types. Just my thoughts...

:D
Innova's first baskets had plastic tubes and Lightning's had rubber coated steel cables. I prefer the chains. Only time I recall trashing a disc on the Innova collar was an ace shot coming in hard angle and hit the collar and cut 2" into the rim. My Aviar is 23 years old and is fine.

Okay smart guys, I prefer the chains the way they are and I think the yellow band itself is a great device for not punishing the player for missing too badly. Resilient, soft plastics will flex when they hit the edge on the band and never take damage. If you putt with KC or glow plastic though, the edge shreds up the putter even from short distances. If the edge were sanded round, instead of a 90-degree angle there wouldn't be a problem at all! I guess it's just time to break out the belt sander

Don't change a thing, your basket is fine.

I remember they used to say the same thing about the number plate on the DGA baskets.



Im not saying the basket is bad! They are fine! But the Band around the top does not need to have razor sharp edges. A little more care and pride in craftsman ship and they could be fixed.

Hey Dave what do you think about the Sirus LF, I like it but I am not sure that Innvoa has anything like it? Also when did you say you would stop making Pro Plastic, I need to stock up on some Rhynos,

I personally prefer th Mach III's because the yellow band on INNOVA's is really distracting. But the band has a somewhat forgiveness if you hit it because it wont shoot your disc away, but it also does slice up some discs. My friend threw his USWDGC CFR Starfire at the basket, but it hit the band and took a decent amount of plastic out of it. Ban the band, Dave!

i dont think soft rhynos in pro will be discontinued, its only the driver pro platic if i read correct.

Discatchers with inner chains are the best catchers, period...and if the yellow chastity band is DISCtracting, then 'DISCadvantage' to those with <font color="yellow">yellow </font> band-ADD/ADHD.

Long live soft Pro-Rhynos!

I really don't find the belt that distracting at all. Mind you I bought one as a practice basket, but even before then it's never been a big deal. I've putted and putted on my Discatcher Sport and have never noticed any damage out of the ordinary to my putters from the basket.

My question is, why are ya lookin at the band anyways if it's so distracting? Find the link in the chain you're gonna nail with your putt! :D

Hey the Yellow Band cost me $400 dollars at a mini once and if it was all chains there is a good chance the the disc would have stuck, better than hiting the yellow belt and bouncing off.

Maybe a big bead along the top would make it less sharp. Weld bead around the top. Maybe that's an easy fix.

Hey Dave what do you think about the Sirus LF, I like it but I am not sure that Innvoa has anything like it? Also when did you say you would stop making Pro Plastic, I need to stock up on some Rhynos,



For your first question, I think the Viking would be close. Also, a beat CE TB is similar as well.

Hello Dave

Are you Innova guys going or plan to make a Star Gazelle?

Hello Dave

Are you Innova guys going or plan to make a Star Gazelle?



At some point in time, we will make a small run of Star Gazelles for tournament fundraising. Not sure when that will happen.

Don't change a thing, your basket is fine.

I remember they used to say the same thing about the number plate on the DGA baskets.

Dave,
It's nice that those plates are usually now covered with a strip of foam to prevent this damage. Is there any quick fix that you can recommend for courses that already have these disc-damaging yellow bands in place? It is frustrating that my putters have such a short lifespan as I like to throw them for upshots and this damage causes them to change flight characteristics constantly. Not sure why flynvegas felt this is "fine" but if there is an easy, legal fix it would be very helpful to me and the other golfers who play here at Evergreen, thanks.



Any tape wrapped over the edge will do, however it might alter the look and be another potential distraction. Matching spray paint will work, but it requires taping and covering areas not to be sprayed. I have had very little if any cutting on my putters but that may have been coincidence. The tops with thicker powder coating are unlikely to cut. That is why the spray paint will work too. I will see what I can do to have to edges dulled consistently on the manufacturing end.

Hey Dave what do you think about the Sirus LF, I like it but I am not sure that Innvoa has anything like it? Also when did you say you would stop making Pro Plastic, I need to stock up on some Rhynos,



For your first question, I think the Viking would be close. Also, a beat CE TB is similar as well.



Only the Pro drivers were in jeopardy of being discontinued. At this time, it appears the Pro Wraith will continue for another year, and maybe the Pro Starfire too. The other non driver discs: KC Pro Aviar and Roc, JK Aviar, Pro Rhyno will continue.

yea that is the best thing i have heard, i dont know what i would do without the Pro Rhyno

what would u do?

Any tape wrapped over the edge will do, however it might alter the look and be another potential distraction. Matching spray paint will work, but it requires taping and covering areas not to be sprayed. I have had very little if any cutting on my putters but that may have been coincidence. The tops with thicker powder coating are unlikely to cut. That is why the spray paint will work too. I will see what I can do to have to edges dulled consistently on the manufacturing end.

Thanks Dave!!! :D

Pro Teebird-L? :o

Pro Teebird-L? :o



long gone...

replaced with star tl, which flies pretty much the same but doesn't beat as fast if that's why you liked the tl

Hello Dave

Are you Innova guys going or plan to make a Star Gazelle?



At some point in time, we will make a small run of Star Gazelles for tournament fundraising. Not sure when that will happen.



I thought a lots of people liked Gazelles. Would't it be profitable to make a Star Gazelle?

Hey Dave why is their no mention of ROCs before 2001 i mean you figure with all the hipe abought a ROC the older the better I have three 1995 Classic stamp ROCs and every one likesum but no one wants to buy any.

I'm guessing because for collectors, that's when the ce/champion rocs were released. the one you have sound like you have classic rocs, which is a completely different mold. the ones you described are an xd with a bead.

The Gazelle still has its niche in DX, but I'm not sure a Star Gazelle would be able to hold its own in the general market against a TeeBird, Eagle, Starfire, Orion, etc. It's not a matter of profitability so much as popularity and practicality. If we had time to make everything we wanted, and had room to stock it, we would. We don't, so we have to choose, which we think are the most popular. Still, it's certainly not a bad idea to make a run for TFRs.

I have three 1995 Classic stamp ROCs and every one likesum but no one wants to buy any.



Classic is a common disc. Now the original from 1988 would sell for much more than a Classic. Also, people do like the SM Roc.

The Gazelle still has its niche in DX, but I'm not sure a Star Gazelle would be able to hold its own in the general market against a TeeBird, Eagle, Starfire, Orion, etc. It's not a matter of profitability so much as popularity and practicality. If we had time to make everything we wanted, and had room to stock it, we would. We don't, so we have to choose, which we think are the most popular. Still, it's certainly not a bad idea to make a run for TFRs.



Okay thank you for the good answer

Any tape wrapped over the edge will do, however it might alter the look and be another potential distraction. Matching spray paint will work, but it requires taping and covering areas not to be sprayed. I have had very little if any cutting on my putters but that may have been coincidence. The tops with thicker powder coating are unlikely to cut. That is why the spray paint will work too. I will see what I can do to have to edges dulled consistently on the manufacturing end.

Thanks Dave!!! :D

Okay, I just got back from playing the course at Veterans Park in Sylmar, CA and they have very new DISCatchers with powder coated bands and wow, these are a huge improvement over the older Innova baskets at Evergreen. The bands are rounded on their top edge and I did not have any cutting issues at all. I think this may only be an issue with the older (also thicker) metal bands that have a 90-degree angle on top. Plus, the newer baskets have three layers of chains that are buttery soft and they made a huge difference with my putting. I had much more confidence in my putt knowing the chains were so adept at catching. So, Dave, I have to say, great job with the improvements in the baskets, the newer model DISCatchers are really pretty awesome. :)

Dave,
Are there any new discs coming out soon?

Like thats going to help? :o:D

Dave can you please make another run of Champion gators? The old mold with the bead!!

Dave can you please make another run of Champion gators? The old mold with the bead!!



I'll second that request. :cool:

Dave can you please make another run of Champion gators? The old mold with the bead!!



I'll second that request. :cool:



Me three!!

Dave,
Are there any new discs coming out soon?



Don't have any planned right now.

Dave can you please make another run of Champion gators? The old mold with the bead!!



Okay.

Dave can you please make another run of Champion gators? The old mold with the bead!!



Okay.



That was easy :D

Dave can you please make another run of Champion gators? The old mold with the bead!!



Okay.



Yay! It was getting hard to find them around here, and the Star Gators are not the same. This is good news indeed.

.

Dave can you please make another run of Champion gators? The old mold with the bead!!



Okay.



Dave, can you please make some Champion Orcs and Roadrunners with the old CE stamp? :D

btw, *love* the Star Roadrunner! Thanks!

He must be in a good mood!!! lol
How about some champion morays!!! That would be sweet.

Hey Dave!

Great Job with the new glow champion aviar small bead.

They feel and fly exactly like the original CE Aviars...

Thanks!

What a coincidence I was just looking to replace my heavy champ gator as it was run over by a lawnmower and punctured in Scottsdale last Tuesday and was not having any luck finding any so thanks Dave.

The Champion Gators have been produced and will be available in the CFR program.

Hey Dave,
Love the new champion plastic. I've heard that your adding an weighting agent to make some of the opaque champion plastic, whatever it is I love it and hope it's at Innova to stay, GREAT job!!!! One request; PLEASE could you run some champion cobras in that opaque plastic?? I can't find them anymore, the ones from a few years ago we're PERFECT!! Thanks, Zac C.

Don't know if this has been asked: I heard a vicious rumor that Pro Wraiths and Pro Starfires were going to be discontinued. Is this true?

They have not been able to locate a source for the Pro plastic so it is being discontinued. Dave has said that the Wraith will be run for about another year. Millenium has dibs on the very last of it since it is their "millenium" type plastic.

Whats up with the new dx plastic. It feels like a mix between dx and proline plastic. I just bought a new aviar driver. If feels great. Very grippy. Sticks to the chains also. It is rediculously stable. I threw it 300 on a hyzer. I think It is going to replace my 10x aviars. I bought 5 total to practice with. We'll see what happens.

Whats up with the new dx plastic. It feels like a mix between dx and proline plastic. I just bought a new aviar driver. If feels great. Very grippy. Sticks to the chains also. It is rediculously stable. I threw it 300 on a hyzer. I think It is going to replace my 10x aviars. I bought 5 total to practice with. We'll see what happens.



That plastic does have some Pro putter plastic mixed in.

hey dave,
not sure if this has been answered, but where can BB dx Aviars be purchased? are they still only under the TFR program??
thx.

-Scott Lewis

DX BB Aviars are available to anyone placing a custom order.

Check with your local club, event or favorite online retailer.

I was just wondering if you were planning on making the new flexfit innova hats in black?

Any chance there will be a return of the champ whippet?

Any chance there will be a return of the champ whippet?



At this point, we are aiming to make Star Whippets, not Champion. That could change in the future.

I was just wondering if you were planning on making the new flexfit innova hats in black?



I don't know. I'll see if I can find out.

I was just wondering if you were planning on making the new flexfit innova hats in black?



Yes. Black is a usual color they order.

At this point, we are aiming to make Star Whippets, not Champion. That could change in the future.



Any guess as to when this might happen? Would love some S.WX's on or before August (my birthday). Also, are these still aimed at TFR only?

At this point, we are aiming to make Star Whippets, not Champion. That could change in the future.



Any guess as to when this might happen? Would love some S.WX's on or before August (my birthday). Also, are these still aimed at TFR only?



Not sure when, but we do want to do it as soon as possible. Several of our team members asked for them too.

as soon as possible.



Great news! Thanks, Dave!!

That is GREAT! Thanks man!!!

Dave, any chance of a softer type of plastic similar to the flx material made to be thrown when it gets colder, or made to be super grippy? I find when its cold out and the discs get hard I tend to not throw as well, so i was just wondering if there were any plans to get some plastic like that?

Dave, any chance of a softer type of plastic similar to the flx material made to be thrown when it gets colder, or made to be super grippy? I find when its cold out and the discs get hard I tend to not throw as well, so i was just wondering if there were any plans to get some plastic like that?



Our softer plastic is referred to as "Gummy". We have been making them for six years or so. They were at first made in selected Champion models such as the Shark, Valkyrie, and Rhyno, and Aviar. We have since added other models as Gummy Star. Which specific models are you interested in?

Dave, any chance of a softer type of plastic similar to the flx material made to be thrown when it gets colder, or made to be super grippy? I find when its cold out and the discs get hard I tend to not throw as well, so i was just wondering if there were any plans to get some plastic like that?



Our softer plastic is referred to as "Gummy". We have been making them for six years or so. They were at first made in selected Champion models such as the Shark, Valkyrie, and Rhyno, and Aviar. We have since added other models as Gummy Star. Which specific models are you interested in?



Gator

MMMM! Gummy Champion Gator X..........I think i'm in love.

Would the skeeter fall into the 'Gummy star' category? I recently got one and noticed it's much softer/grippier than my star leopard or FL.

Cheers,
Jeffrey



Dave, any chance of a softer type of plastic similar to the flx material made to be thrown when it gets colder, or made to be super grippy? I find when its cold out and the discs get hard I tend to not throw as well, so i was just wondering if there were any plans to get some plastic like that?



Our softer plastic is referred to as "Gummy". We have been making them for six years or so. They were at first made in selected Champion models such as the Shark, Valkyrie, and Rhyno, and Aviar. We have since added other models as Gummy Star. Which specific models are you interested in?

Would the skeeter fall into the 'Gummy star' category? I recently got one and noticed it's much softer/grippier than my star leopard or FL.

Cheers,
Jeffrey



Dave, any chance of a softer type of plastic similar to the flx material made to be thrown when it gets colder, or made to be super grippy? I find when its cold out and the discs get hard I tend to not throw as well, so i was just wondering if there were any plans to get some plastic like that?



Our softer plastic is referred to as "Gummy". We have been making them for six years or so. They were at first made in selected Champion models such as the Shark, Valkyrie, and Rhyno, and Aviar. We have since added other models as Gummy Star. Which specific models are you interested in?





Yes, the Skeeter was fairly recently run in a gummy Star. It's not as gummy as some of the past Champion gummy though.

Dave,

Please Please next year run more Ch. Rocs in the Ontario mold. I was lucky enough to get 3 of them this year and crazy enough to throw 1. and they fly awesome. Please make more

: ) :

Dave,

Please Please next year run more Ch. Rocs in the Ontario mold. I was lucky enough to get 3 of them this year and crazy enough to throw 1. and they fly awesome. Please make more

: ) :



What specifically do you like about the way they fly?

The champ ontarios fly like a well-seasoned rancho, and stay that way forever. I would love to get my hands on some more Champ and Star/SB ontario rocs (without paying ebay prices).

I love the DX ontario rocs as well. As a newer disc golfer, the ontario reissue is the first chance I've had to throw them. Needless to say, I bought a stack of them to go with my box of ranchos. :D

Thanks Dave!

Dave, any chance of a softer type of plastic similar to the flx material made to be thrown when it gets colder, or made to be super grippy? I find when its cold out and the discs get hard I tend to not throw as well, so i was just wondering if there were any plans to get some plastic like that?



Our softer plastic is referred to as "Gummy". We have been making them for six years or so. They were at first made in selected Champion models such as the Shark, Valkyrie, and Rhyno, and Aviar. We have since added other models as Gummy Star. Which specific models are you interested in?



Gator



Gators with the bead Dave....pleeeeeease

Dave,

Please Please next year run more Ch. Rocs in the Ontario mold. I was lucky enough to get 3 of them this year and crazy enough to throw 1. and they fly awesome. Please make more

: ) :



What specifically do you like about the way they fly?



well i have plenty of champion rocs and they are all overstable discs. it is nice to have a roc in champion plastic that goes straight to turnover brandnew. and of course being in champion plastic it will stay that way.

it's just nice not having to wait 4 years to break in a champion roc

: ) :

Dave, any chance of a softer type of plastic similar to the flx material made to be thrown when it gets colder, or made to be super grippy? I find when its cold out and the discs get hard I tend to not throw as well, so i was just wondering if there were any plans to get some plastic like that?



Our softer plastic is referred to as "Gummy". We have been making them for six years or so. They were at first made in selected Champion models such as the Shark, Valkyrie, and Rhyno, and Aviar. We have since added other models as Gummy Star. Which specific models are you interested in?



Gator



Gators with the bead Dave....pleeeeeease



Just ran them in Champion.

are those champ gators for cfr's only?

Hey Dave, Brandon asked this on another thread maybe you won't see and I wondered what you thought:


How much, REALLY, does air temperature affect distance?

The last month in particular I'm reaching holes I've never reached before... I know I'm getting better, but the 15% or so increase in distance has me scratching my head.

If anyone has any theories/facts about this, I would be curious to hear them!

Thanks - Brandon

I get better distance in the summer too.

are those champ gators for cfr's only?



Yes, as it was a limited run.

Hey Dave, Brandon asked this on another thread maybe you won't see and I wondered what you thought:


How much, REALLY, does air temperature affect distance?

The last month in particular I'm reaching holes I've never reached before... I know I'm getting better, but the 15% or so increase in distance has me scratching my head.

If anyone has any theories/facts about this, I would be curious to hear them!

Thanks - Brandon

I get better distance in the summer too.



There might be several factors going on at once in the summer vs winter throwing comparison. In winter you generally wear more clothes and may have worse footing. Also colder discs generall are more difficult to grip which reduces traction and therefor energy transfer. And, possibly more to the point, cold air is denser than warm air. Denser air gives more lift and more drag. So....in calm air conditions, prewarmed discs, warm body, no excessive clothes, discs are faster, but not necessary longer in the summer. For most golf shots, speed trumps glide (lift), so you will throw longer in the summer. Although I am not sure how much difference it makes, theoretically you should throw faster shots with barometric low pressure too, but I have not heard of that anecdote or otherwise.

Hey Dave, Brandon asked this on another thread maybe you won't see and I wondered what you thought:


How much, REALLY, does air temperature affect distance?

The last month in particular I'm reaching holes I've never reached before... I know I'm getting better, but the 15% or so increase in distance has me scratching my head.

If anyone has any theories/facts about this, I would be curious to hear them!

Thanks - Brandon

I get better distance in the summer too.



There might be several factors going on at once in the summer vs winter throwing comparison. In winter you generally wear more clothes and may have worse footing. Also colder discs generall are more difficult to grip which reduces traction and therefor energy transfer. And, possibly more to the point, cold air is denser than warm air. Denser air gives more lift and more drag. So....in calm air conditions, prewarmed discs, warm body, no excessive clothes, discs are faster, but not necessary longer in the summer. For most golf shots, speed trumps glide (lift), so you will throw longer in the summer. Although I am not sure how much difference it makes, theoretically you should throw faster shots with barometric low pressure too, but I have not heard of that anecdote or otherwise.



S Johnson did a chapter on how different altitudes and temp effect the flight of frisbees. Wish he would complete the disc golf book he's been working on the past few years.

Dave, any chance of a softer type of plastic similar to the flx material made to be thrown when it gets colder, or made to be super grippy? I find when its cold out and the discs get hard I tend to not throw as well, so i was just wondering if there were any plans to get some plastic like that?



Our softer plastic is referred to as "Gummy". We have been making them for six years or so. They were at first made in selected Champion models such as the Shark, Valkyrie, and Rhyno, and Aviar. We have since added other models as Gummy Star. Which specific models are you interested in?



Gator



Gators with the bead Dave....pleeeeeease



Just ran them in Champion.



SWEET! THANKS DAVE!

Dave,

I tried searching with no luck...

Were you planning on coming out with Star and/or TFR STAR Whippets?

Josh

I've noticed a decline in KC Pro Whippets around. Will these ever be run again? Thanks.

Any chance there will be a return of the champ whippet?



At this point, we are aiming to make Star Whippets, not Champion. That could change in the future.




Daves post from a few pages back above.

at the moment dave i only really throw firebirds which ive found a gummy star but the champion is the only one that i find stable enough because my max does the job of the longer stable throws but the champion firebird is stiff. itd be nice to try a gummier one that was still really stable and skips but maybe thats the benefit of the stiffer plastic. But a gummy star teebird. Man those things are beefy at max weight but its soooo stiff that when its a chilly day or a wet one it goes left out of the hand. (rhbh) a softer grippier one would be awesome. to say the least all of the discs that i have a great at certain conditions but i just love when a disc is flexible and grippy even on a hot day. Basically what i wanted to say was i only throw firebird and max, (overstable discs) Teebird/TL (long straight), Rocs, which i know that star rocs are usdgc discs but they were all very hard and the SB celtic was also a little harder plastic but itd be awesome to have a flexible star roc, and then aviars which i havent found an actual "Gummy" one but im sure they are out there so as long winded as this is dave im basically looking for a gummy star Teebird, TL, and roc

Hey Dave were glow CFR starfires the x mold cause it seems to fly pretty stable, also it seems that star starfires are way more overstable than the Champion that I have thrown which I like but wish I could have one in Champ plastic that was overstable.

Hey Dave were glow CFR starfires the x mold cause it seems to fly pretty stable, also it seems that star starfires are way more overstable than the Champion that I have thrown which I like but wish I could have one in Champ plastic that was overstable.



All Starfires now produced are X type except the Starfire L, which is designated SL. Specifically, I don't remember the glow Starfires, but if they don't say SL, then I would assume they are regular Starfires, which is X.

I have noticed that the Star Starfire is more high speed stable than the Champions had been in the past. The Champions I had thrown in the past had a little turn when I threw them hard into a wind. This could have just been variations in plastic from the manufacturer, or it could have been a particular mold part that we don't use anymore. I expect both Star and Champion to be consistently high speed stable in the future. I hope so. I was very pleased with the Star Starfire run and want those to continue that way.

Ok Dave, I dont know if this is the right place to ask this or not, but I am looking for a disc that I can turn to the right even though I need to throw it high. Several of my friends throw San Marino Rocs on the hole, but I dont have one. The hole is short, maybe 220. What would you recommend. There is a small gap I have to hit and then make the disc turn right, nit super hard right. I tried a Star Stingray but it seemed to cut too hard and my TL is too long and sometimes comes back left.

Thanks for all of your great discs and help.

Try one of the Ontario rocs that are out now.

Try a Champ Panther or I havent thrown it but a Kite might work too.

Try one of the Ontario rocs that are out now.



Try a beat up "no bead" Star Aviar. IMO it is the best slow turnover disc out there. You can throw it high and let it do it's work.

Ok Dave, I dont know if this is the right place to ask this or not, but I am looking for a disc that I can turn to the right even though I need to throw it high. Several of my friends throw San Marino Rocs on the hole, but I dont have one. The hole is short, maybe 220. What would you recommend. There is a small gap I have to hit and then make the disc turn right, nit super hard right. I tried a Star Stingray but it seemed to cut too hard and my TL is too long and sometimes comes back left.

Thanks for all of your great discs and help.



All of the suggestions are good. Ontarios turn and stay turned, so do Kites, and so do Aviar Putters. That's the trick with a high turnover. Most other discs want to come back. If you can throw a Putter comfortably 225 or so, use a Putter. If you need a little more distance, try the Kite or Ontario. The Kite is a better glider, but you might not need glide.

I dont throw really far, a Kite might work out for me. I do have a Bowling Green Ontario Roc. I might give it a throw. Thanks Dave. Turning right is the hardest thing for me.

I really like using beat in putters (soft DX is good) for high, gradual turnovers. It has taken me a few months to get the control right for throwing putters for medium distance but it has been worth it. I use a grip that's in between a fork and fan grip. pinkie on the inside of the rim. ring and middle finger somewhat flat on the bottom of the flight plate and index finger curled under rim. Power/driver grip doesn't work well for me with putters and this is a good compromise for me.

I dont throw really far, a Kite might work out for me. I do have a Bowling Green Ontario Roc. I might give it a throw. Thanks Dave. Turning right is the hardest thing for me.



Besides having the right disc, the trick is to keep the nose down. Even a good turning disc will hyzer back if the nose is up.

XD.

the dx cobras i have thrown in the past will make that kind of turn also.

technique question... How can i learn to throw high but with the nose down? Like an Anhyzer?

Try the Bonopane grip which automatically puts the nose of the disc down more than the usual grips:
http://www.innovadiscs.com/tips/davesgripsmain.html#specialty

Something else Dave has recommended in the past that has helped me immensely is that it's easier to get the nose down and make the disc turn when you let your wrist go straight when you throw, instead of the slight curve I naturally give it when i'm throwing a power drive. Keeping everything else the same, if you straighten the wrist it will make nose down turnover much easier

Something else Dave has recommended in the past that has helped me immensely is that it's easier to get the nose down and make the disc turn when you let your wrist go straight when you throw, instead of the slight curve I naturally give it when i'm throwing a power drive. Keeping everything else the same, if you straighten the wrist it will make nose down turnover much easier



You should actually open your wrist past straight. The farther the better. At the same time, if you keep your wrist cocked down, it will roll naturally over the top to help keep the nose down. The same technique can be used for hyzer flips.

Was the eagle made in the SE plastic?

Was the eagle made in the SE plastic?



I have seen them on EBay so i'm going to say yes, but Dave may know for sure.

**Edit**
I just found the below. Maybe they are just 1st run and not SE though.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-SE-PLASTIC-EA...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-SE-PLASTIC-EAGLES-W-INNOVA-BAR-STAMP-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ290123952798QQihZ019QQcategoryZ20851 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Innova-Pair-of-First...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Innova-Pair-of-First-Run-Eagles-Max-Weight_W0QQitemZ230138787056QQihZ013QQcategoryZ798 04QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Was the eagle made in the SE plastic?



Yes, I think that at that time they made all new drivers in SE, Eagle, Teebird, Leopard, Rhyno, and so on.

Was the eagle made in the SE plastic?


...my first impression is no. I do remember and actually have SE Ts &amp; TLs, SE Leopards, and later SE Valks were made. I don't recall SE Eagles.

I have a blank SE Eagle. There were lots of discs which were made in short test runs. I also have seen Banshees, Vipers, StingRays and Morays in SE.
None of them with the SE-stamp, just blank or with the "Innova bar-stamp".

I have a blank SE Eagle. There were lots of discs which were made in short test runs. I also have seen Banshees, Vipers, StingRays and Morays in SE.
None of them with the SE-stamp, just blank or with the "Innova bar-stamp".



SE meant Special Edition. As such, it was usually about 2500 for test market, promotion, or they didn't exactly fit anywhere else. It did not necessarily have anything to do with the plastic type. That being said, the plastic was most often a Pro type or Millennium type plastic. I don't specifically remember a SE Eagle stamp, but there probably were generic stamped Eagles designated as Special Edition.

Dave,
Was the Cobra ever ran in any other plastic than DX. I have heard many good things about this disc as a nice slow turnover disc and just wondered what plastics it had been run in. Thanks.

I have a champion Cobra.

Dave,
Was the Cobra ever ran in any other plastic than DX. I have heard many good things about this disc as a nice slow turnover disc and just wondered what plastics it had been run in. Thanks.



The Cobra has been run in two versions; flat top (Ontario), and original San Marino type.
It has been run in DX, Pro, Champion, and Star. Currently, we are only producing the Cobra, in the San Marino type, in DX and Star.

The Cobra has been run in two versions; flat top (Ontario), and original San Marino type.
It has been run in DX, Pro, Champion, and Star. Currently, we are only producing the Cobra, in the San Marino type, in DX and Star.



Nice, guess i didnt look into it enough. Thanks for the info.

I have a blank SE Eagle. There were lots of discs which were made in short test runs. I also have seen Banshees, Vipers, StingRays and Morays in SE.
None of them with the SE-stamp, just blank or with the "Innova bar-stamp".




I have a SE Banshee with a Star stamp.

I have a blank SE Eagle. There were lots of discs which were made in short test runs. I also have seen Banshees, Vipers, StingRays and Morays in SE.
None of them with the SE-stamp, just blank or with the "Innova bar-stamp".



SE meant Special Edition. As such, it was usually about 2500 for test market, promotion, or they didn't exactly fit anywhere else. It did not necessarily have anything to do with the plastic type. That being said, the plastic was most often a Pro type or Millennium type plastic. I don't specifically remember a SE Eagle stamp, but there probably were generic stamped Eagles designated as Special Edition.


There was a pretty small limited run of what the player's referred to as "Super Eagles", and they had the bar stamp.

Was the eagle made in the SE plastic?



I have seen them on EBay so i'm going to say yes, but Dave may know for sure.

**Edit**
I just found the below. Maybe they are just 1st run and not SE though.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-SE-PLASTIC-EA...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-SE-PLASTIC-EAGLES-W-INNOVA-BAR-STAMP-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ290123952798QQihZ019QQcategoryZ20851 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Innova-Pair-of-First...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Innova-Pair-of-First-Run-Eagles-Max-Weight_W0QQitemZ230138787056QQihZ013QQcategoryZ798 04QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)





Are the eagles on the first link the "super eagles"?

Dave,
Was the Cobra ever ran in any other plastic than DX. I have heard many good things about this disc as a nice slow turnover disc and just wondered what plastics it had been run in. Thanks.



The Cobra has been run in two versions; flat top (Ontario), and original San Marino type.
It has been run in DX, Pro, Champion, and Star. Currently, we are only producing the Cobra, in the San Marino type, in DX and Star.



So what is the Cobra, a Roc bottom with a Stingray top?
What is the Panther made from? Top &amp; Bottom?

Are the eagles on the first link the "super eagles"?



Sure looks like it. With 99.7% positive with a feedback count of 1330, I'd tend to believe that seller.

good, those are now mine :D
Lets just hope they are the real deal!

Dave, I heard that Champion Wraiths would become a stock item around the first of June. When do you think I should be able to order them from the East Coast?

Dave,
What are your thoughts on the Starfire? Do you use them or do alot of the Innova team use them? Is there any possiblity of them being made in DX? I know it might have been asked before and I think you might have said that you guys had problems running them. Is this still the case? If you can run Wraiths and Teerexes in DX is there really that much of a difference in the molds to hinder the Starfires ability to be molded in DX?
Thanks for all you do!!
J

Discgolfvalues.com

For you Whippet freaks Mark now has Star Whippet X's!

Dave, I heard that Champion Wraiths would become a stock item around the first of June. When do you think I should be able to order them from the East Coast?



We are shooting for July 1, at this point.

Dave,
What are your thoughts on the Starfire? Do you use them or do alot of the Innova team use them? Is there any possiblity of them being made in DX? I know it might have been asked before and I think you might have said that you guys had problems running them. Is this still the case? If you can run Wraiths and Teerexes in DX is there really that much of a difference in the molds to hinder the Starfires ability to be molded in DX?
Thanks for all you do!!
J



I use the Star Starfires, as do Avery Jenkins and Dave Feldberg last I talked to them. I don't know how many others use them. They are more predictable than the Wraith, and almost as long. We are planning on running them in DX, but yes, it is difficult, as it is with Wraiths and TeeRexes, to run them consistently.

Do the CFR sponsor rewards program entry forms expire? I just found a few laying around from last year and was wondering if they could still be sent in.

Do the CFR sponsor rewards program entry forms expire? I just found a few laying around from last year and was wondering if they could still be sent in.



I believe it's still okay to send forms in from last year.

Hi Dave, I'm curious. It seems that the 12x Roc is not as popular this round as it was for the 11x or even more so for the 10x (and 8x). People say it's softer, and flippy. Any comments about this? Was that the plan, or was is it just due to molding etc of this run? Does KC actually throw these, and check them out? Is there a testing procedure to making sure that the KC flies to any spec? I love to throw my 10x Rocs, I think the 11x is much more stable. Was the 12x an attempt to make the 11x a little less stable? What's the story?

Dave, I also throw starfires, but only in Pro plastic (I think this is actually the SL mold???) I have heard that the Real Starfires (champ and Star) are way more overstable. With Pro Plastic running short, what discs should I look at to replace the Pro SLs in my bag? Will the Star SLs act in a similar manner?

Another Innova produced disc in similar plastic is the Millennium Orion LS. It took the Starfire L's place in my bag. I've since moved on to the SOLF. :cool:

Hi Dave, I'm curious. It seems that the 12x Roc is not as popular this round as it was for the 11x or even more so for the 10x (and 8x). People say it's softer, and flippy. Any comments about this? Was that the plan, or was is it just due to molding etc of this run? Does KC actually throw these, and check them out? Is there a testing procedure to making sure that the KC flies to any spec? I love to throw my 10x Rocs, I think the 11x is much more stable. Was the 12x an attempt to make the 11x a little less stable? What's the story?



The 12X were not altered in any way. They should have been at least as stiff as any run, and at least as stable in the Cucamonga mold. We test them here, but I don't recall the results off hand. I don't throw Rocs when I golf, so I couldn't compare them personally, but I will test one tomorrow, if I can, with Steve Wisecup. Kenny does throw KC Pro Rocs, but I don't know which vintage he prefers.

Dave, I also throw starfires, but only in Pro plastic (I think this is actually the SL mold???) I have heard that the Real Starfires (champ and Star) are way more overstable. With Pro Plastic running short, what discs should I look at to replace the Pro SLs in my bag? Will the Star SLs act in a similar manner?



Yes, the Star Starfires are much more high speed stable than the Pro Starfires. A Star SL is also much more stable than a Pro Starfire (L), until it is worn in fairly well. Probably the closest would be the Pro Wraith.

Dave, I also throw starfires, but only in Pro plastic (I think this is actually the SL mold???) I have heard that the Real Starfires (champ and Star) are way more overstable. With Pro Plastic running short, what discs should I look at to replace the Pro SLs in my bag? Will the Star SLs act in a similar manner?



Yes, the Star Starfires are much more high speed stable than the Pro Starfires. A Star SL is also much more stable than a Pro Starfire (L), until it is worn in fairly well. Probably the closest would be the Pro Wraith.



I agree also go with the Orion LS it is the same thing as a Pro Starfire.

the ols has a narrower rim than the starfire.

Isn't the OLS less nose angle sensitive than the Pro Starfire (aka: SL) too -- making it easier to throw predictably? I hear Star Valkyries are nice too -- but haven't thrown one yet.

yes. ols a hair shorter than pro strfire, but more predictable

Currently, we are only producing the Cobra, in the San Marino type, in DX and Star.


Dave,
When/where will these be available?
Thanks.

Dave-

Is the SL approved for PDGA tournament use? This quote was taken from another board:

I think I would tell them that the SL is not approved for PDGA tournament use, if I saw anyone throwing it. I think I will announce it at IOS 3.

This is not an oversight on Innova's part. They know that the SL is not on the list because they never submitted it, and that it is not approved for PDGA tournament use.

The rule that a disc must be on the approved list to be used in a tournament is in the rule book.

Dave-

Is the SL approved for PDGA tournament use? This quote was taken from another board:

I think I would tell them that the SL is not approved for PDGA tournament use, if I saw anyone throwing it. I think I will announce it at IOS 3.

This is not an oversight on Innova's part. They know that the SL is not on the list because they never submitted it, and that it is not approved for PDGA tournament use.

The rule that a disc must be on the approved list to be used in a tournament is in the rule book.





The Starfire L, Firebird L, and TeeBird L were all approved and in production before we shortened the names to the abbreviations SL, FL, and TL. At this point Homburg decided this was a name change and the discs, which were already certified, had to be recertified. We market the Starfire L, the Firebird L, and TeeBird L as the original models with a shortened designation, not a name change like Sniper to Gremlin, which was a name change. Regardless, we have already recertified the FL, TL, and Gremlin. We will recertify the SL soon. In the meantime, if you play with a disc called Starfire L, it should be legal, as it was before the name abbreviation. If you play with a disc called SL, it may not be.

Dave...any chance of an ontario mold roc in the kc plastic?

also star polecats would be excellent.

Dave...any chance of an ontario mold roc in the kc plastic?

also star polecats would be excellent.



At this point in time, we either need to get a different supplier of the material that makes KC Rocs, or limit the models. Unless we do get a new supplier, we can't add another model.

I personally think a Star Polecat (newest version) would be a good disc, however, I don't think it would be a good seller. I will think about it. Thanks.

Dave,
Did you guys get a chance to throw the new 12x rocs? If so, what were your impressions?

Also, these was a batch of 11x rocs that had a quarter size dimple in the flight plate and the plastic was stiffer. What caused this dimple? Was it the stiffer plastic? I like this model a lot. It was very close to the 10x's in flight and feel

Currently, we are only producing the Cobra, in the San Marino type, in DX and Star.


Dave,
When/where will these be available in STAR?
Thanks.


You skipped my question Dave.

Dave,
Did you guys get a chance to throw the new 12x rocs? If so, what were your impressions?

Also, these was a batch of 11x rocs that had a quarter size dimple in the flight plate and the plastic was stiffer. What caused this dimple? Was it the stiffer plastic? I like this model a lot. It was very close to the 10x's in flight and feel



Didn't have a chance, but will try tomorrow. The dimple was an artifact of the weighting agent and molding parameters. Sometimes it means the sprue (where the plastic is shot into the mold) is cold, sometimes it means the part is undershot, sometimes it means other things. The core plastic is always the same stuff, but the weighting agent can vary as we have it compounded out of house. We have had a lot of minor problems with the weighting agent and have had it compounded by at least a half dozen different compounders. The only one we had been consistently happy with went out of business. We are considering setting up our own compounding if we can. This could increase consistency dramatically. Right now, we don't have the room for the equipment.

Currently, we are only producing the Cobra, in the San Marino type, in DX and Star.


Dave,
When/where will these be available in STAR?
Thanks.


You skipped my question Dave.



I am not sure. We are currently making Star Stingrays. I thought we had made some Star Cobras previously. If so, they would be available in TFR programs. I will try to check tomorrow.

Currently, we are only producing the Cobra, in the San Marino type, in DX and Star.


Dave,
When/where will these be available in STAR?
Thanks.


You skipped my question Dave.



I checked. They were in TFR. I believe discgolfvalues has a couple left. The new run will happen fairly soon and they will go to TFR too.

Thanks Dave, let us know when you mold them so we can be looking for them.

Been a while since i last asked, but any chance of some Vipers in Star anytime soon?

Been a while since i last asked, but any chance of some Vipers in Star anytime soon?



I'll second that!!! I found a Viper in a creek the other day and wow what a disc!!! :D

Been a while since i last asked, but any chance of some Vipers in Star anytime soon?



We just ran Vipers and Star was not in the loop. Probably not until next year at the earliest. Champion Vipers are still available.

Dave,
Did you guys get a chance to throw the new 12x rocs? If so, what were your impressions?

Also, these was a batch of 11x rocs that had a quarter size dimple in the flight plate and the plastic was stiffer. What caused this dimple? Was it the stiffer plastic? I like this model a lot. It was very close to the 10x's in flight and feel



I still haven't had a chance to test throw them, but all indications of the only KC Rocs we have in stock, point to: they are identical. I have a 12X, 11X, and a no X stamp. The 11X does not have an indentation, so it could have come from a different run than yours. All three of the Rocs I have feel and look the same.

Been a while since i last asked, but any chance of some Vipers in Star anytime soon?



We just ran Vipers and Star was not in the loop. Probably not until next year at the earliest. Champion Vipers are still available.


Are you saying that I'll have to buy al the remaining stock of Champion Vipers before you'll run any in Star? :)

Since I'm the only one that buys them, I'm sure I'll end up being the one who buys all the rest. Albeit it will take a while since they don't wear out and I can't throw them far enough to lose them with any regularity. :D

[QUOTE]

Are you saying that I'll have to buy all the remaining stock of Champion Vipers before you'll run any in Star? :)

Since I'm the only one that buys them, I'm sure I'll end up being the one who buys all the rest. Albeit it will take a while since they don't wear out and I can't throw them far enough to lose them with any regularity. :D



Yes, if you buy all of them, (with Rhett), I will make more in Star. The Viper actually still sells well in DX, but not a hit in Champion.

not to belabor the point, but you told me months ago when i asked about vipers in star that you had just run them then, so if you indeed just ran them again, why no star this time? If they sell well in dx like you say, can we give star a chance? Im just curious because having to find CFR vipers for twice the price or more of what they should be plus shipping is getting a tad bit old and the dx's just dont last long enough.

Dave,
I was wondering if there will be another run of Champion Classic Rocs. IMO it's the best disc in my bag and they getting extremely scarce. I also heard something about and altered mold for the Classic Roc

not to belabor the point, but you told me months ago when i asked about vipers in star that you had just run them then, so if you indeed just ran them again, why no star this time? If they sell well in dx like you say, can we give star a chance? Im just curious because having to find CFR vipers for twice the price or more of what they should be plus shipping is getting a tad bit old and the dx's just dont last long enough.



Yes, they were run a couple months ago, which means they won't be in the schedule til next year. I would love to run Star Vipers, but my business partners would not be happy as we really don't have the space or time to do everything I would like. Still, we are looking for more space right now, so running Star Vipers is possible in the future.

Dave,
I was wondering if there will be another run of Champion Classic Rocs. IMO it's the best disc in my bag and they getting extremely scarce. I also heard something about and altered mold for the Classic Roc



We did retool the mold to fly more like the original and less like an XD. Champion Classic Rocs are still available in regular stock on both coasts. If your local retailer does not have them, you can contact Mark at discgolfvalues, he will have them.

I got a little space in my garage :D

Yeah If Dave could just run what he wanted, I bet he would run some Sweet Morays, right!!!

Yeah If Dave could just run what he wanted, I bet he would run some Sweet Morays, right!!!



absolutely

Thank you Innova for the Star Whippets!!!

They are just as beefy as I was hoping, and now I don't have to spend $40 on one of my favorite discs! Now, is there any way to convince you guys to take them out of TFR and keep them as a regular production model...

Thank you Innova for the Star Whippets!!!

They are just as beefy as I was hoping, and now I don't have to spend $40 on one of my favorite discs! Now, is there any way to convince you guys to take them out of TFR and keep them as a regular production model...




I was told they werent as overstable as the Champions, much like all discs that have been converted to Star plastic.

Are the TFR Champion Gremlins going to have the big bead on the bottom or will they be similar to the Stars?

Yeah If Dave could just run what he wanted, I bet he would run some Sweet Morays, right!!!



absolutely




Now let get some made. Some new ones would be sweet.

Dave:

A two-part question:

1- When was the current Innova logo created?

2- Is it likely to change any time soon?

Are the TFR Champion Gremlins going to have the big bead on the bottom or will they be similar to the Stars?



The TFR Champion Gremlins have been run and are big bead.

Dave:

A two-part question:

1- When was the current Innova logo created?

2- Is it likely to change any time soon?



I think the logo was created about 5 or 6 years ago. It is not likely to change soon.

Dave,
What can you tell us about the CRO?

Dave,
What can you tell us about the CRO?



Dave, why does Colin ask so many questions? :D