Hey Dave just saw you released a star kite would this be a good replacement for my Champ Panther, which is my understable mid range and roller? How is the feel compared to a Panther?

Hey Dave just saw you released a star kite would this be a good replacement for my Champ Panther, which is my understable mid range and roller? How is the feel compared to a Panther?



They do occupy a similar niche, however the profiles are different. The Panther would be (and feel) lower profile and faster, and the Kite would be (and feel) taller with more carry. The Panther operates better on lower throws and the Kite operates better on higher throws.

i wish it was more mainstream though. i would like to find a gummy star or champ rhyno. only way i know of is thru the CFR program.

any chance of a star banshee?

any chance of a star banshee?



Possibly at some point, but not soon.

Does Innova have any plans on running any type of "sparkle" like plastic? Seems like everyone is doing "sparkle" now.

A sparkle champ roc would be tasty.

Does Innova have any plans on running any type of "sparkle" like plastic? Seems like everyone is doing "sparkle" now.

A sparkle champ roc would be tasty.



We tried sparkle in the past few years and didn't like the effect on our machines. Unless we can overcome that problem, we won't be doing it.

Does Innova have any plans on running any type of "sparkle" like plastic? Seems like everyone is doing "sparkle" now.

A sparkle champ roc would be tasty.


130g sparkle Shark:
http://www.tripledisc.com/preview/msdgc/sparkleshark.jpg

Hey Dave, I picked up a disc years ago and was told it was a roc-ray, reportedly a hybrid of a san marino roc and stingray. It is star stamped off-white and marked on the back: proto-x-. Do you have any info on this disc? such as when and how many were run? Thanks, Tom. "If it ain't INNOVA, it's just a hunk of plastic."

i have a purple galaxy camp roc thats sparkly. i just saw disc golf values had a test run of sparkle dx rhynos and some were on ebay.

Hey Dave, I picked up a disc years ago and was told it was a roc-ray, reportedly a hybrid of a san marino roc and stingray. It is star stamped off-white and marked on the back: proto-x-. Do you have any info on this disc? such as when and how many were run? Thanks, Tom. "If it ain't INNOVA, it's just a hunk of plastic."



Not that many were made. Probably less than 5,000. They were made around 1991.

That is a Professional Driver that we used to make for DGA. They were numbered 1,2 and 3. #1 was stock, #2 and #3 were progressively "factored".

Does Innova have any plans on running any type of "sparkle" like plastic? Seems like everyone is doing "sparkle" now.

A sparkle champ roc would be tasty.



TA DA
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2150/2443602401_a2c88e1c73.jpg

Pretty Roc. Stupid question: What is "factoring"? KP

factoring is the shaving down of the bead to change its flight characteristics. This is done pre consumer. If it was post consumer (you did it) it would be illeagle

with cro available in three plastics, will it be available in pro, or maybe the XCaliber? the DX destroyer has improved my overall distance greatly, thanks dave!

with cro available in three plastics, will it be available in pro, or maybe the XCaliber? the DX destroyer has improved my overall distance greatly, thanks dave!



We have no plans to make the Cro or XCaliber in Pro right now.

Hey dave or anyone that knows,
Of the the KC pro rocs which one is the more stable to overstable one? and also is the the firm 11x or the soft 11x more overstable? any info can help!!!!!

Will there be any new discs added to the TFR/CFR list anytime soon? (Champ XC?)
Thanks!

the stiff 11x's are nice and overstable.

the 11x soft roc has a little flatter top to it.

I have been asked to help a local seller of Innova make up a 50 disc order for her store. I know what I like, but that is nowhere near what the average player is throwing. Her shelves are all but empty, 4 or 5 discs left. Could someone please give me an idea of what to order, what's hot right now?
Thanks!

Will there be any new discs added to the TFR/CFR list anytime soon? (Champ XC?)
Thanks!



Yes. Champion Cro first. Limited quantities of Champion XC for National tour and Majors at first, then more later.

I would say
5 star destroyers
5 star xcalabers
5 star wraiths
5 champ roadrunners
5 dx starfires
5 dx destroyers
5 star cros
5 dx rocs
5 dx cobra
5 dx aviars

Mabye not enough beginer plastic but tryed to get a good spread....Prolly would be better to order more than 50.....If you have it they will buy it espically if it is one of the only places to get discs NOW and not wait for em to be shipped.....just my .02

you gotta get teebirds

That would be appropriate to bring to a tournament to sell. Probably not for a retail store that takes all kinds of players.

Only 50 discs? This would be a better beginner-friendly mix...
Maybe swap a couple Pro Rhynos for a couple of the Spiders.

Then see what sells well... I bet you run out of Aviars before anything else... :-)

10 Aviar P&A
5 Spiders
5 Stingray, 2 150 Class
5 Rocs
5 Valks or Teebirds, 2 150 Class
5 Leopards 2 150 Class
5 Star Destroyers
5 Star TeeRex
5 Ch. Roadrunner

sting rays when thrown long distances find thorn patches, eh bad putter?

sting rays when thrown long distances find thorn patches, eh Dr.Sward?

Hello Dave,

To your knowledge has there ever been, and if not will there ever be, a glow champion leopard?

Thanks in advance,
Nao

what and when are different plastics better? like dx, champion, or star?

Hey Ronin -

Dave is in Santa Cruz for the Master's Cup. I am loath to answer questions on his thread, but I will give it a go. As best I can recollect, we have mde DX Glo Leopards but not Glo Champion Leopards. Dave would be the one to address if or when these might be made.

Take care,
Harold

Dear Chris - Dave can answer this better than I, but I will give it a quick shot in his absence.

DX - Great for feel and grip, especially in cold or wet weather. DX is also easiest to get discs "experienced." Many players like to throw the same discs with varying degrees of wear to produce more turnover. This provides a more consistent release. DX also has the most 150 Class and super light models.

Champion - Most durable. Frequently Champions are the most stable/overstable.

Star - Almost as durable as Champion, but usually with a better grip.

Pro (Drivers) - Often the grippiest, and usually the best gliding least fading (low speed overstable). Not as durable as Champion or Star.

I hope that this helps. You may want to write back for a better answer on Monday when Dave returns.

Take care,
Harold

Hey Dave,

I have a first run eco star Xcaliber at 175g. I know this thing is supposed to fly like a faster Max, but when I throw it side arm it flips out like crazy! If there is any wind it will flip vertically and roll. My Maxes are WAY more overstable. Even my destroyers thrown into the same conditions fly stable to slightly understable and resist flipping much better than my Xcaliber. It seems like my Xcaliber flew much more overstable when it came in. I was wondering if you had heard of this. Do I just have a rogue Xcaliber or has there been problems with them (eco maybe) losing their stability?

my eco green 175 one has way more dome than my yellow 175. i am hoping it is more [over]stable than my destroyers, but your post is what was afraid of after looking at it.

why did the DX full color Rocs get discontinued?

why did the DX full color Rocs get discontinued?



WHAT? No way! Are you talking about the "flat top" aka "Ching" Rocs? Those are my bread-n-buttah!

yep

thats what I saw posted today on Discnations site

You can still get flat top full color rocs (skull and budda) from Gotta Go Gotta Throw

That sucks!

...time to stock up I guess.

I really like the aviars with the same stamp so yall proded me to go buy 6 for backups from gottagogottathrow :DI do have one of the rocs and it is one of my favs :D

I really like the aviars with the same stamp so yall proded me to go buy 6 for backups from gottagogottathrow :DI do have one of the rocs and it is one of my favs :DDo they have the buda stamp in the putters as well :confused: never seen em but I would love a couple

So, I couldn't dig it up in earlier on the thread, I'm sure its been covered, but gotta ask.

Dave, how does the Super Roc compare it stability to special run champion versions and the KC Pro?

Dear Joe - I believe that full color Rocs will still be available for custom imprinting. I saw a bunch printed for Worlds Biggest last week.

Take care,
Harold

Dear Joe - I believe that full color Rocs will still be available for custom imprinting. I saw a bunch printed for Worlds Biggest last week.


... and what's super interesting about those WB full-colors is that they are ONTARIOS!!! That's right, semi-flattened full-color DX Ontarios. Seeing as how that mold doesn't flatten as easily as a Rancho, I'm guessing the full-color less-domed DX Ontario is going to be a rare monster. Now you know how to spot one ;)

the artwork on them is so beautiful too! :cool:

Hey Dave,

I have a first run eco star Xcaliber at 175g. I know this thing is supposed to fly like a faster Max, but when I throw it side arm it flips out like crazy! If there is any wind it will flip vertically and roll. My Maxes are WAY more overstable. Even my destroyers thrown into the same conditions fly stable to slightly understable and resist flipping much better than my Xcaliber. It seems like my Xcaliber flew much more overstable when it came in. I was wondering if you had heard of this. Do I just have a rogue Xcaliber or has there been problems with them (eco maybe) losing their stability?



I think you have a bad one, but I have heard of one other person getting a bad one too. I was surprised at how stable the Echo plastic was considering the dome. It is possible that if the dome got past a certain point, it could turn the disc flippy instead of stable.

So, I couldn't dig it up in earlier on the thread, I'm sure its been covered, but gotta ask.

Dave, how does the Super Roc compare it stability to special run champion versions and the KC Pro?



I have only thrown the original Super Rocs and the Champion. I can't throw KCs as the plastic is not right for me. If the current Super Rocs are like the ones I threw, they start out with a slight turn high speed and have a lot of low speed overstability. The Champions were very high speed stable and had a little less low speed overstability. Both of these were more low speed overstable than the San Marino, (which I throw). The San Marino is high speed stable, but doesn't dive as hard low speed.

Thanks Dave,

I bought one to throw and one to hang up. It looks like I hung up the wrong one!

we appreciate your support! :)

Dave is it true that you are not going to make star cros anymore that they are goin in to the CFR program??

Dave is it true that you are not going to make star cros anymore that they are goin in to the CFR program??



Not true.

Dave, I was curious about the thought behind switching the dx eagle mold to L from X. I recently got an older dx Eagle-X, and was very impressed with it. More like a Cyclone in the turn/fade, but faster.

Dave, I was curious about the thought behind switching the dx eagle mold to L from X. I recently got an older dx Eagle-X, and was very impressed with it. More like a Cyclone in the turn/fade, but faster.



The idea was to differentiate it from a TeeBird. We originally wanted a faster slightly more stable Cheetah, (which was Climo's favorite at the time we were developing the Eagle. The main market seems to like the X type over the L type so we now just make the X type.

Hi Dave, i am not sure if this is already answered because i wasn't current till recently -- but i noticed the latest run of JK Pro Aviar-X's seems to be firmer / grippier than the softer kind that i like. Do you know if this is the trend for the future or it is just a temporary fluctuation in how they'll feel?

I also saw a green one recently -- i had thought they only came in white (mainly) and sometimes yellow, orange, and blue ... are there more variations coming?

Dave, I was curious about the thought behind switching the dx eagle mold to L from X. I recently got an older dx Eagle-X, and was very impressed with it. More like a Cyclone in the turn/fade, but faster.



The idea was to differentiate it from a TeeBird. We originally wanted a faster slightly more stable Cheetah, (which was Climo's favorite at the time we were developing the Eagle. The main market seems to like the X type over the L type so we now just make the X type.



Are you saying that the DX Eagle-X is currently in production?

Dave, I was curious about the thought behind switching the dx eagle mold to L from X. I recently got an older dx Eagle-X, and was very impressed with it. More like a Cyclone in the turn/fade, but faster.



The idea was to differentiate it from a TeeBird. We originally wanted a faster slightly more stable Cheetah, (which was Climo's favorite at the time we were developing the Eagle. The main market seems to like the X type over the L type so we now just make the X type.



Are you saying that the DX Eagle-X is currently in production?



Please tell me this is the truth!!

Hi Dave, i am not sure if this is already answered because i wasn't current till recently -- but i noticed the latest run of JK Pro Aviar-X's seems to be firmer / grippier than the softer kind that i like. Do you know if this is the trend for the future or it is just a temporary fluctuation in how they'll feel?

I also saw a green one recently -- i had thought they only came in white (mainly) and sometimes yellow, orange, and blue ... are there more variations coming?



The feel is a fluctuation, at least the flex. The grip is here to stay. The colors were added as more people were asking for more colors. We did the same with the KCs.

Dave, I was curious about the thought behind switching the dx eagle mold to L from X. I recently got an older dx Eagle-X, and was very impressed with it. More like a Cyclone in the turn/fade, but faster.



The idea was to differentiate it from a TeeBird. We originally wanted a faster slightly more stable Cheetah, (which was Climo's favorite at the time we were developing the Eagle. The main market seems to like the X type over the L type so we now just make the X type.



Are you saying that the DX Eagle-X is currently in production?



It is not currently in production, but will be next week or soon thereafter. Eagles will all be X type.

are all eagles going to become the X mold or just dx?

Dave, what changed between the earlier Star Wraiths, and the new 12x Star Wraiths? My new max weight 12x is possibly more stable than any of my Destroyers. The one I bought it to replace was much less stable. Fluke? Mold change? Hit more trees? Thanks for the input. KP

Dave, I was curious about the thought behind switching the dx eagle mold to L from X. I recently got an older dx Eagle-X, and was very impressed with it. More like a Cyclone in the turn/fade, but faster.



The idea was to differentiate it from a TeeBird. We originally wanted a faster slightly more stable Cheetah, (which was Climo's favorite at the time we were developing the Eagle. The main market seems to like the X type over the L type so we now just make the X type.



Are you saying that the DX Eagle-X is currently in production?



It is not currently in production, but will be next week or soon thereafter. Eagles will all be X type.



Thank you for returning your most versatile driver to dx.

Dave,

2 Questions

1. I need to replace my green Xcaliber, I am looking for a super overstable sidearm distance driver. Is there any truth to colors having slight affects on the stability and if so, what weight and color would be the most stable.

2. I have fallen in love with the Omega Super Soft Putter. I have been having trouble finding them anywhere in bulk at 175. Are these limited production? Could you recommend a place to buy them?

Dave,

2. I have fallen in love with the Omega Super Soft Putter. I have been having trouble finding them anywhere in bulk at 175. Are these limited production? Could you recommend a place to buy them?



Not Dave, But I would try Millenium (Dave just makes 'em, John Houck sells 'em :D)

I have fallen in love with the Omega Super Soft Putter. I have been having trouble finding them anywhere in bulk at 175. Are these limited production? Could you recommend a place to buy them?


There was a short lapse in availability last month, but an excellent new run of Omega SuperSoft has just begun shipping out. Any of the larger outlets or online dealers should be stocked already, or very soon. Our fellow Austinites at DiscNation.com are a good bet.

And thanks for the great plastic, Dave. Just like I like 'em!

are all eagles going to become the X mold or just dx?



yes, just X mold. Champion, Star, and DX

Dave, what changed between the earlier Star Wraiths, and the new 12x Star Wraiths? My new max weight 12x is possibly more stable than any of my Destroyers. The one I bought it to replace was much less stable. Fluke? Mold change? Hit more trees? Thanks for the input. KP



Just a variation with the long wing drivers.

Dave,

2 Questions

1. I need to replace my green Xcaliber, I am looking for a super overstable sidearm distance driver. Is there any truth to colors having slight affects on the stability and if so, what weight and color would be the most stable.

2. I have fallen in love with the Omega Super Soft Putter. I have been having trouble finding them anywhere in bulk at 175. Are these limited production? Could you recommend a place to buy them?



Your green XCaliber is probably domey. That is not necessarily a predictor of stability. It is, a pretty good predictor of glide though. I can recommend any particular color at this time as I have heard of variations among colors.

Omega SS are made for Millennium Discs of Austin Texas. Millennium, John Houck or Circle R Productions would be the ones to contact.

Thanks Dave (Keith and ZAMson as well)

I wasn't sure what level of involvement Innova has with Millenium. I have heard that Millenium designs them and Innova just makes. I have also heard that they are kind of like "B" Innova discs. To good to not to be manufactured, but not good enough to get the Innova stamp. Whatever the case, thanks for the help! Just can't get enough of this putter.

... I wasn't sure what level of involvement Innova has with Millenium. I have heard that Millenium designs them and Innova just makes. I have also heard that they are kind of like "B" Innova discs. To good to not to be manufactured, but not good enough to get the Innova stamp. Whatever the case, thanks for the help! Just can't get enough of this putter.



I beleive that it was Millenium that got Innova into the newer / more durable plastics, i.e., SE/pro, etc.... :cool:

But I could be wrong :D

To good to not to be manufactured, but not good enough to get the Innova stamp.




LOL. Ive seen plenty of crappy discs with an Innova stamp. Thats not it at all.

What is it then? Since you seem to know.

Dave, I've got another quick fairway driver question. I picked up an 8x Gazelle on the cheap from Ebay, and noticed that it's tooling says Ontatio. This is in opposition to what my dx Gazelles are (Rancho). What did you change on the mold there?

I wasn't sure what level of involvement Innova has with Millenium. I have heard that Millenium designs them and Innova just makes. I have also heard that they are kind of like "B" Innova discs. To good to not to be manufactured, but not good enough to get the Innova stamp. Whatever the case, thanks for the help! Just can't get enough of this putter.

I could be wrong but i think the poster comment you are referring to was comparing them to "b-sides" tracks that aren't radio hits for the masses but are gems none the less - not as in "B" rated like second rate. Think of it more like a microbrew that has a specific niche

Innova makes discs for more than one other company. I could tell you what I think, but I dont think that would go over very well.

I just found it funny that you suggested that Millennium discs werent good enough for an Innova stamp, when Innova makes them and has thier name engraved on the bottom.

Dave, I've got another quick fairway driver question. I picked up an 8x Gazelle on the cheap from Ebay, and noticed that it's tooling says Ontatio. This is in opposition to what my dx Gazelles are (Rancho). What did you change on the mold there?



Plant locations.

Sorry, It wasn't my intention to make them sound like "inferior" discs. Obviously I don't think so or I wouldn't be throwing them. CheMo expressed what I was trying to say much more eloquently. By not good enough I meant didn't quite fill a niche. Not that they were bad discs. So, does anyone know what Innova's relationship is to Millenium exactly? Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Dave, I've got another quick fairway driver question. I picked up an 8x Gazelle on the cheap from Ebay, and noticed that it's tooling says Ontatio. This is in opposition to what my dx Gazelles are (Rancho). What did you change on the mold there?


Plant locations.



So there's no difference between the molds?

are all eagles going to become the X mold or just dx?



yes, just X mold. Champion, Star, and DX



Will the dx be marked EX or something that can differentiate it from the eagles that are out there right now?

The main market seems to like the X type over the L type so we now just make the X type.



Thank you Dave!!! As it should be...

(tear) (sob)

Dave,

I traded for a San Marino DX Roc.

This DX plastic is what DX should be. It is almost like DX/Star. It is smooth yet tacky, and firm. In my opinion, this is not really a variation, it is just better.

Is there any way this plastic could make its way onto the main DX market?

are all eagles going to become the X mold or just dx?



yes, just X mold. Champion, Star, and DX



Will the dx be marked EX or something that can differentiate it from the eagles that are out there right now?



ELs have a flat rim. EXs have the hook and bead.

Dave has there ever been any Champion Max's?

Do you have any plans to make a Champion Max?

There was a run done of Champion Maxs for the Masters Cup last year or the year before. VERY limited numbers. I have one and its pricey, but you can probably find one for cheaper. There was 7 made and they came with a signed certificate.

http://www.ironliondgs.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21&products _id=340

I guess it's ask Chase day. :)

I know how to tell the difference between the Eagle molds, but for those who haven't felt both, I was hoping that they would be marked so people could tell the difference between the 2.

CheMo expressed what I was trying to say much more eloquently. By not good enough I meant didn't quite fill a niche. Not that they were bad discs. So, does anyone know what Innova's relationship is to Millenium exactly? Sorry for the misunderstanding.



Dave/Innova designs and makes them; John/Millenium sells them. i believe Dave feels some of his best designs are actually Millenium discs. My impression is that Dave decided to help John start a disc company that specialized in durable plastic -- an idea John came up with and Innova helped innovate... hopefully Dave or Discette or John will give us the lowdown...

My bad. I was just on here.

Dave, I've got another quick fairway driver question. I picked up an 8x Gazelle on the cheap from Ebay, and noticed that it's tooling says Ontatio. This is in opposition to what my dx Gazelles are (Rancho). What did you change on the mold there?



There has only been one Gazelle after the prototype. I don't know how there could be two different engraving marks.

Dave,

I traded for a San Marino DX Roc.

This DX plastic is what DX should be. It is almost like DX/Star. It is smooth yet tacky, and firm. In my opinion, this is not really a variation, it is just better.

Is there any way this plastic could make its way onto the main DX market?



We have been trying to transition to that plastic for a couple of years. It is very difficult to mold properly. We have been using a combination of old and new DX mostly, and straight new blend, when the molding cooperates.

are all eagles going to become the X mold or just dx?



yes, just X mold. Champion, Star, and DX



Will the dx be marked EX or something that can differentiate it from the eagles that are out there right now?



I don't think we are going to mark them as they can be differentiated by the beveled edge.

Dave has there ever been any Champion Max's?

Do you have any plans to make a Champion Max?



There has not been an entire run. Just a few. I think we will run Max in Champion if testing indicates it is more stable in Champion.

Dave, I've got another quick fairway driver question. I picked up an 8x Gazelle on the cheap from Ebay, and noticed that it's tooling says Ontatio. This is in opposition to what my dx Gazelles are (Rancho). What did you change on the mold there?


Plant locations.



So there's no difference between the molds?



You may have a prototype. The regular Gazelle has a bead on the inside of the rim. It is our only disc that has this feature. If both of your Gazelles have this bead, I am at a loss. The Gazelle was retooled around 1996, but as far as I can recall, we didn't touch the core, which has the engraving. Only the beveled edge was flattened. However, I can't account for the engraving saying Rancho, when we were in Ontario when we made the Gazelle.

We have been trying to transition to that plastic for a couple of years. It is very difficult to mold properly. We have been using a combination of old and new DX mostly, and straight new blend, when the molding cooperates.



Well...new blend is awesome...

I agree.

dave how come you guys quit making the champion aviar, also are their any plans to do full production of rocs in either champ/star plastic.

dave how come you guys quit making the champion aviar, also are their any plans to do full production of rocs in either champ/star plastic.



We quit originally because they weren't coming out right. We have since solved the problem and are making them again. The only Roc we have done a reasonable amount of, is the Star Ontario Roc. The Roc, in plastics other than DX, is reserved for fund raising. We are talking about expanding the availability of non collector Rocs, but they would still be fund raisers. Just more widely available. Thrower Rocs in Champion and Star will be available at zonedriven in addition to the collector series. Also X out Rocs are available at zonedriven. Among the three lines, (collector, thrower, and X out) and among the three types of Rocs (Ontario, San Marino, and Rancho) and between the three types of plastics (Champion, Star, and Super Rocs), you should be able to obtain a Roc you want.

Hey Dave, I'm know I've seen this somewhere before, but I can't find it know. How many of the Echo star stamp Xcalibers were made? Also, are these called the Protos or the first runs, or are these the same thing?

Hey Dave, I'm know I've seen this somewhere before, but I can't find it know. How many of the Echo star stamp Xcalibers were made? Also, are these called the Protos or the first runs, or are these the same thing?



Protos and first run are the same usually. I don't know how many Echo star stamp XCalibers were made. Usually, it is around 2000-5000 for a proto run, but I will have to check.

dave how come you guys quit making the champion aviar.



We quit originally because they weren't coming out right. We have since solved the problem and are making them again.




Are you making Big Beads again, or the no beads?

all the ones ive seen are the beadless p&a mold

dave how come you guys quit making the champion aviar.



We quit originally because they weren't coming out right. We have since solved the problem and are making them again.




Are you making Big Beads again, or the no beads?



No beads for now, but we might make the big beads too.

No beads for now,



booo :p j/k


but we might make the big beads too.




YEEEAAAH!!!!!! :D

Two quick questions:

1) Are the flight plates slightly thicker on the JK Avairs now than they used to be at some point?

2) I ran in to a KC 12X that had a tacky grip to the feel and I really liked it. Is this by design? If so will we see it on all new 12Xs or just the random one.

Thanks for all you do!!

Two quick questions:

1) Are the flight plates slightly thicker on the JK Avairs now than they used to be at some point?

2) I ran in to a KC 12X that had a tacky grip to the feel and I really liked it. Is this by design? If so will we see it on all new 12Xs or just the random one.

Thanks for all you do!!



If the JK had San Marino engraving it could have a slightly thinner plate.

We have been having difficulties running the KC material and have tried different additives to solve the problem. That was probably one of those times. We may have solved the problem since. If so, we will go back to the original formula, if not, we will continue to try things.

Hey Dave, is there any place that you know of that I can find black DX Aviars consistenly?

Hey Dave, is there any place that you know of that I can find black DX Aviars consistenly?



Mark at discgolfvalues is probably the best bet.

Theres just something about the black ones. At least the ones i have. I love them, they are a little more stiff and (i think) a little more stable than other colors.

Dave - Who is my best bet to go to to find small bead Aviars still in stock?

The new DX plastic seems to cause Aviars to warp when they hit trees instead of dinging up. I don't know what other people think, but I hate it. I know some people might be happy about them not taking dings, but I can't stand having such easily warped plastic.

Dave - Who is my best bet to go to to find small bead Aviars still in stock?




Probably Millennium Omegas. They are still made with small beads.

Hey Dave!

Just wondering - would Glow Star Plastic be possible to make? Also, I know the champ Archangels came out really stable for some reason, whould a gummy star version be as stable do you think? Hmm, just wondering...

Thanks,
Whip

Hey Dave!

Just wondering - would Glow Star Plastic be possible to make? Also, I know the champ Archangels came out really stable for some reason, whould a gummy star version be as stable do you think? Hmm, just wondering...

Thanks,
Whip



Star plastic is opaque and would mask the effects of the glow pigment. In order to make Star glow effectively, we would need to put a lot of heavy glow pigment in. This would mean we could only do it on older models, if it was possible at all considering the difficultly of molding Star in the first place.

Soft Champion or Star Archangels would most likely be just as stable as the ones we already ran. DX works for Archangels because it shrinks much more than Champion or Star.

How about a glow dye? If it doesn't exist it seems like it would be fairly easy to produce.

I'm hearing things about Pro Rhyno's. The SE Rhyno was my first putter when I started in '01 and now that's the closest I got, but everyone I talk to around my area, doesn't have em in stock and I talked to Tom Monroe down in Birmingham and now he's telling me they may even stop making? Any truth to that and where can I get my hands on some! Thanks!

I'm hearing things about Pro Rhyno's. The SE Rhyno was my first putter when I started in '01 and now that's the closest I got, but everyone I talk to around my area, doesn't have em in stock and I talked to Tom Monroe down in Birmingham and now he's telling me they may even stop making? Any truth to that and where can I get my hands on some! Thanks!



No, we are not stopping producing them. zonedriven on the east coast, discgolfvalues on the west can get them. Any dealer can order them.

the dealer here where i get them is still getting the firm pro rhynos. haven't seen soft pro rhynos in a while.

dave do you have any tips for removing flashing from the bottom of discs, i just bought a champ starfire and it hurts my fingers when i throw. thanks.

dave do you have any tips for removing flashing from the bottom of discs, i just bought a champ starfire and it hurts my fingers when i throw. thanks.



Carpet is probably the best, but it takes rubbing hard. A terry towel will take even more rubbing, (that's what I use when I need to). Sandpaper works, but is not as neat.

dave do you have any tips for removing flashing from the bottom of discs, i just bought a champ starfire and it hurts my fingers when i throw. thanks.



I use microfiber towels. It takes some elbow grease, but if you sand really fast with them it builds up heat that seems to remove the flashing seamlessly without even leaving abrasion marks. A sanding sponge works as well with less effort.

Does innova not sell course packages with the Sport baskets? It seems like at one time I saw this option, but can't find it now.
I am putting in an 18 holes private course, and just do not have the money for 18 pro baskets. And I have some chain sets I have purchased, that I could put on the Sports to reinforce them.
Can you help me?

dave do you have any tips for removing flashing from the bottom of discs, i just bought a champ starfire and it hurts my fingers when i throw. thanks.



I use microfiber towels. It takes some elbow grease, but if you sand really fast with them it builds up heat that seems to remove the flashing seamlessly without even leaving abrasion marks. A sanding sponge works as well with less effort.



I use the 3M Sanding "scrungies", look like what you'd use in the kitchen for pots and pans, but without the soap. Actually work better if you don't press too hard. Just do it really fast. :D

Dave,

I noticed that the mold used for the Wraith, Teerex, and Destroyer for making the disc in DX have a much larger notch. Like an X mold.

What is the advantage to making the progressively more stable discs from a completely different mold ala Wraith to Teerex, Teerex to Max instead of just using the Wraith DX mold to make a Teerex level stability , or making a Max level stability from a Teerex DX mold?

I don't think that they use different molds. I'm not sure if they manipulate other things, but I know that Dave has mentioned that Dx shrinks more when molded compared to star and champion.

I don't think that they use different molds. I'm not sure if they manipulate other things, but I know that Dave has mentioned that Dx shrinks more when molded compared to star and champion.



Oh, I think they do... the raised "bead" on the DX versions are much taller than the Star. It is very obvious (to me at least). In fact, it appears the "bead" portion of the mold is a plug in of some kind.

Does innova not sell course packages with the Sport baskets? It seems like at one time I saw this option, but can't find it now.
I am putting in an 18 holes private course, and just do not have the money for 18 pro baskets. And I have some chain sets I have purchased, that I could put on the Sports to reinforce them.
Can you help me?



We do not encourage these temps (DC Sports) to be used for permanent outdoor installation. The galvanization isn't as good as the hot dipped Pros, and will probably not stand up to harsh wet weather. Also, they will not stand up to the abuse targets can get at public courses.

Dave,

I noticed that the mold used for the Wraith, Teerex, and Destroyer for making the disc in DX have a much larger notch. Like an X mold.

What is the advantage to making the progressively more stable discs from a completely different mold ala Wraith to Teerex, Teerex to Max instead of just using the Wraith DX mold to make a Teerex level stability , or making a Max level stability from a Teerex DX mold?



The X version doesn't exist anymore for the Wraith or TeeRex. We use the same mold for DX or Champion.

We use different molds for Wraith, TeeRex, and Max, as the nose needs to be progressivly thicker to take the abuse. The Firebirds, Monsters, Maxes, have the thickest noses and can take the most abuse.

I'm hearing things about Pro Rhyno's. The SE Rhyno was my first putter when I started in '01 and now that's the closest I got, but everyone I talk to around my area, doesn't have em in stock and I talked to Tom Monroe down in Birmingham and now he's telling me they may even stop making? Any truth to that and where can I get my hands on some! Thanks!



No, we are not stopping producing them. zonedriven on the east coast, discgolfvalues on the west can get them. Any dealer can order them.



<font color="blue"> Haven't the SE's been discontinued for several years now? </font>
That's what he asked about in my opinion, not the regular Pro Rhynos which are available everywhere.

I'm hearing things about Pro Rhyno's. The SE Rhyno was my first putter when I started in '01 and now that's the closest I got, but everyone I talk to around my area, doesn't have em in stock and I talked to Tom Monroe down in Birmingham and now he's telling me they may even stop making? Any truth to that and where can I get my hands on some! Thanks!



No, we are not stopping producing them. zonedriven on the east coast, discgolfvalues on the west can get them. Any dealer can order them.



<font color="blue"> Haven't the SE's been discontinued for several years now? </font>
That's what he asked about in my opinion, not the regular Pro Rhynos which are available everywhere.



They were essentially the same thing, but I noticed the last run was too stiff. Maybe that's the problem.

No i was asking about the Pro Rhyno's too. But Dave cleared that up for me. I just wanted to know if they were going to stop making em. Thanks!

Dave,

I noticed that the mold used for the Wraith, Teerex, and Destroyer for making the disc in DX have a much larger notch. Like an X mold.

What is the advantage to making the progressively more stable discs from a completely different mold ala Wraith to Teerex, Teerex to Max instead of just using the Wraith DX mold to make a Teerex level stability , or making a Max level stability from a Teerex DX mold?



The X version doesn't exist anymore for the Wraith or TeeRex. We use the same mold for DX or Champion.

We use different molds for Wraith, TeeRex, and Max, as the nose needs to be progressivly thicker to take the abuse. The Firebirds, Monsters, Maxes, have the thickest noses and can take the most abuse.



That is interesting. I never knew that.

I guess Discspeed is right, all I am seeing is the plastic shrinkage on the DX Destroyer. It makes the concavity seem so much more pronounced on the wing.

BTW, I love the Wraith, TR, Max combo.

Although, I will say this. I have a Star Wraith that is so domey it is sick! The top is smooth all the way across too. It is so predictable. If I could pick through a stack of Wraiths to grab a bunch like this, I would probably drop the TR.

I just wanted to say that the latest Star discs have some of the most beautifully molded discs I have ever seen. They are also very consistent. The Star Wraith, TR, Max, TB, and the new Eagle are just great discs.

Steve Stark (MPK Co)
MPK CO.
Champlin (Clayton, WI), MN US Page Views: 10988
Ranked: 1 / 629 Entered: 10/05/2007
Patented or Patent Pending
Litroenergy is a patent pending designed light source material that emits light for 12 plus years- without electricity or sun exposure!
Our development/design of long-life, self-luminous micro particles called Litrospheres (non-toxic) emit light continuously for 12 plus years (half-life point) without any exposure to a light or other energy (not effected by cold or heat). This extremely low cost material offers 24/7 light, which can be injection molded or added to paint. It is 5,000lb crush resistant, stable and constant light source (gives off no U.V. rays). It is designed to give off almost any color of light desired. Our goal is to mass produce this material and supply OEM�s.

Litroenergy has potential to save billions of dollars in energy costs world-wide. Litroenergy surpasses all known available lighting options for cost/durability/reliability (12+ years) and safety. The uses are unlimited as the imagination; however we predict the safety aspects to be the front runner in application (light safety tape, lighted life rafts/flotation equipment, light safety markings/equipment, etc.). Supplemental light source will be second as the material is bright and one can read by it, if you have some Litroenergy lighting you will not need to always turn on a light source that requires electricity. The use of Litroenergy in toys, sports/camping equipment, bikes and novelty uses will be close in applications.

The fill rate of Litroenergy micro particles in plastic injection molding material or paint is about 20%. The cost to light up 8 � x 11 piece of plastic 1/8� thick is about .35 cents.

We appreciate this opportunity to introduce our patent pending designed Litroenergy light source material to the world.

............This would make a great glow disc!

^^^ REALLY want to see some of this material.... SOMEONE, DAVE, ANYONE, PLEASE MAKE SOME BEES OUT OF THIS!!!

^^^ REALLY want to see some of this material.... SOMEONE, DAVE, ANYONE, PLEASE MAKE SOME BEES OUT OF THIS!!!



This very hyped glow material is not in production nor is it even available for testing.

wow, then the peeps that are in charge of this Litroenergy have it really hyped up for having no product available.

Hello Dave,

What is the difference from a San Marino Roc vs. a regular KC Pro Roc, is the SM more Stable?

^^^ REALLY want to see some of this material.... SOMEONE, DAVE, ANYONE, PLEASE MAKE SOME BEES OUT OF THIS!!!



This very hyped glow material is not in production nor is it even available for testing.


If it sounds too good to be true ��

Hello Dave,

What is the difference from a San Marino Roc vs. a regular KC Pro Roc, is the SM more Stable?



SM has less fade. It is similar HS and has a straighter finish.

SM has less fade. It is similar HS and has a straighter finish.



I guess then the question for me would be, what is the difference between the SM and the Ontario? To me what you say about the SM is how "I" feel the Ontario's flight path is.

SM has less fade. It is similar HS and has a straighter finish.



I guess then the question for me would be, what is the difference between the SM and the Ontario? To me what you say about the SM is how "I" feel the Ontario's flight path is.



The Ontario has the least fade and least high speed stability of the three. The Rancho and San Marino both have excellent high speed stability. The Rancho has more fade or low speed over stability. The Rancho is maybe a little faster and the San Marino maybe has more glide. I say maybe because the difference is minor and the particular mold run and material can make a difference. The Ontario is a better turning Roc as you can turn it over and make it stay over.

The San Marino RR may be the best Roc yet...

Dave,
Why doesnt Innova have more Accessories? License plate frames, baby stuff, jackets, stuff like that? I know people would buy if you made it. Thanks

My champ Panther off the top of your head what would you replace it with??

Stingray or Kite

i'd go skeeter

i was thinking maybe dx/star cro

My champ Panther off the top of your head what would you replace it with??



DX Coyote, maybe 5 g's lighter than you'd usually thrown or just beat the snot out of a DX Coyote at your regular weight.

The Kite is going to have the most similar feel, diameter, and flight of all the discs that have been mentioned.

Probably Kite, but the Champ Panther retains a unique place in my bag. Glad I have a few backups, although I don't think they're that hard to get.

Dave,

I didn't see anything posted so I will ask here.

Do you plan on running any San Marino Rocs in the KC plastic? Maybe as a CFR? Of so that would be just sweet....!!

Dave,

I just ordered a batch of tournament stamped DX Aviar P &amp; A and they are stiff as all get out. They are all white, red and yellow. It seems more like KC Roc or Aviar plastic. They are very hard.....not the soft DX I was expecting. Is this the way DX Aviar P&amp;A s will be from now on or is this a fluke?

Dave,
Why doesnt Innova have more Accessories? License plate frames, baby stuff, jackets, stuff like that? I know people would buy if you made it. Thanks



We haven't thought of it or haven't had time, but it's not a bad idea. Thanks.

My champ Panther off the top of your head what would you replace it with??



Probably a Champion Leopard (faster) or Champion Stingray (slower)

Dave,

I didn't see anything posted so I will ask here.

Do you plan on running any San Marino Rocs in the KC plastic? Maybe as a CFR? Of so that would be just sweet....!!



It is not in our present plans, but certainly not a bad idea.

Dave,

I just ordered a batch of tournament stamped DX Aviar P &amp; A and they are stiff as all get out. They are all white, red and yellow. It seems more like KC Roc or Aviar plastic. They are very hard.....not the soft DX I was expecting. Is this the way DX Aviar P&amp;A s will be from now on or is this a fluke?


I have been hearing about some of these not so soft Aviar P&amp;As. This is not the way we want them, although we did want them to be firmer than our softest putters. The latest DX we have been trying to use seems to have a weird cooling pattern that gets stiffer as it sits. It does loosen up with use but can get rather stiff just sitting. We have gone back to the previous type DX, because of that.

Dave,

I didn't see anything posted so I will ask here.

Do you plan on running any San Marino Rocs in the KC plastic? Maybe as a CFR? Of so that would be just sweet....!!



It is not in our present plans, but certainly not a bad idea.



Got my vote! Bring on the KC Pro Sanny's

Just make sure they are stiff. I just got some new kc's that are soft and they fly like a buzzz (dead staight)...not at all what i wanted :(

I think it would be a great idea too!

The San Marino RR may be the best Roc yet...



<font color="green"> 2ndTT </font>

dave,
if you decide to do accessories, let me know and maybe i can help with ideas and stuff. thanks for replying to our posts.

Dave,

Have you guys decided when you're going to run other molds in the Eco Star, like the teebird?

Also there was a question on another board if the mocha eco dx aviars were ran yet.

I'm loving the Eco XC's

Dave,

Have you guys decided when you're going to run other molds in the Eco Star, like the teebird?

Also there was a question on another board if the mocha eco dx aviars were ran yet.

I'm loving the Eco XC's



We are using the Echo Star in everything we can. We now have several other colors. Yellow, orange, red, and one other I haven't seen.

The Echo Mocha DX Aviars were the first Echo we ran. We have done several different colors in Echo DX. Sharks, Leopards, Sidewinders, Aviars, Destroyers, Aeros, Valkyries, and Maybe Eagle too. So far no TeeBirds in either Star or DX.+

Are they marked different or do we just have to feel them to know?

not trying to be too cynical.., but you are just simply reusing the waste that you create. havent you been doing this in some capacity before now? and it isnt really a different plastic than the dx or star that you run now. it seems that people are talking about it like its something way different, but isnt it just the same material drop, just reprocessed and run again?

i guess the question is,...

if you had two discs side by side, one run with yellow echo and one run with new yellow plastic, could you tell the difference?

Any info on these new discs

Monarch and Pig (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/English/nyheter.aspx?NewsId=781)

Will the pig be like a bulldog?

Any info on these new discs

Monarch and Pig (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/English/nyheter.aspx?NewsId=781)




As it says in the swedish article, Monarch will be a faster Roadrunner, and Pig a faster Rhyno.

If this is true, I will surely get me a pair of Monarchs ASAP they're out! :)

The Echo Mocha DX Aviars were the first Echo we ran. We have done several different colors in Echo DX. Sharks, Leopards, Sidewinders, Aviars, Destroyers, Aeros, Valkyries, and Maybe Eagle too. So far no TeeBirds in either Star or DX.+



Dave, Does using the Echo mix in these molds change the stability? The Aero in particular is my interest. Also does it cool harder than the current DX plastic?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer.

Are they marked different or do we just have to feel them to know?



Most of the time, (but not always), they have an E marked on the bottom.

not trying to be too cynical.., but you are just simply reusing the waste that you create. havent you been doing this in some capacity before now? and it isnt really a different plastic than the dx or star that you run now. it seems that people are talking about it like its something way different, but isnt it just the same material drop, just reprocessed and run again?

i guess the question is,...

if you had two discs side by side, one run with yellow echo and one run with new yellow plastic, could you tell the difference?



Yes, essentially we're using rejects and overweights with a very small amount of used discs from tests, old stock, misstamps, etc. The only difference is the amount of recycled material in the discs we call Echo. In the past, we could only use a small amount of regrind (not reprocessed) with the fresh material. Reprocessing takes additional steps and expense, and has to be done by an outside contractor. Echo discs are a minimum of 50% reprocessed up to 100%. This is pre consumer, not post consumer reprocessed. Post consumer would be much more difficult.

Any info on these new discs

Monarch and Pig (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/English/nyheter.aspx?NewsId=781)

Will the pig be like a bulldog?



Yes the Pig will be like a faster Rhyno and similar in flight, but not feel, to a Bulldog. The Monarch is similar to a faster Roadrunner. No release date has been set. Only the minimum number of Pigs have been made as yet. Monarchs will be in full production, but we haven't received approval yet.

The Echo Mocha DX Aviars were the first Echo we ran. We have done several different colors in Echo DX. Sharks, Leopards, Sidewinders, Aviars, Destroyers, Aeros, Valkyries, and Maybe Eagle too. So far no TeeBirds in either Star or DX.+



Dave, Does using the Echo mix in these molds change the stability? The Aero in particular is my interest. Also does it cool harder than the current DX plastic?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer.



It is possible for the Echo mix to be a little more stable than the usual plastic as it has been blended and compressed twice.

Any info on these new discs

Monarch and Pig (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/English/nyheter.aspx?NewsId=781)

Will the pig be like a bulldog?



Yes the Pig will be like a faster Rhyno and similar in flight, but not feel, to a Bulldog. The Monarch is similar to a faster Roadrunner. No release date has been set. Only the minimum number of Pigs have been made as yet. Monarchs will be in full production, but we haven't received approval yet.



As always, thanks so much for your patience and time. Possibility of lighter weights being molded in the Monarch? :D

Any info on these new discs

Monarch and Pig (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/English/nyheter.aspx?NewsId=781)

Will the pig be like a bulldog?



Yes the Pig will be like a faster Rhyno and similar in flight, but not feel, to a Bulldog. The Monarch is similar to a faster Roadrunner. No release date has been set. Only the minimum number of Pigs have been made as yet. Monarchs will be in full production, but we haven't received approval yet.



As always, thanks so much for your patience and time. Possibility of lighter weights being molded in the Monarch? :D



Yes the Monarchs will go down to 152-153g in Champion.

Any info on these new discs

Monarch and Pig (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/English/nyheter.aspx?NewsId=781)

Will the pig be like a bulldog?



Yes the Pig will be like a faster Rhyno and similar in flight, but not feel, to a Bulldog. The Monarch is similar to a faster Roadrunner. No release date has been set. Only the minimum number of Pigs have been made as yet. Monarchs will be in full production, but we haven't received approval yet.



As always, thanks so much for your patience and time. Possibility of lighter weights being molded in the Monarch? :D




Yes the Monarchs will go down to 152-153g in Champion.



Very cool. Thanks Dave. :cool:

Dave,

When will the Champion XCalibers be released for all events for CFR Hotstamping?

Any info on these new discs

Monarch and Pig (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/English/nyheter.aspx?NewsId=781)

Will the pig be like a bulldog?



Yes the Pig will be like a faster Rhyno and similar in flight, but not feel, to a Bulldog. The Monarch is similar to a faster Roadrunner. No release date has been set. Only the minimum number of Pigs have been made as yet. Monarchs will be in full production, but we haven't received approval yet.



As always, thanks so much for your patience and time. Possibility of lighter weights being molded in the Monarch? :D



Yes the Monarchs will go down to 152-153g in Champion.



Wahooooooooooooo!!! That's what I'm talkin' about!!! Dave knew that weights between 150 and 155 were my favorites!! Thanks Dave!!

Dave,

When will the Champion XCalibers be released for all events for CFR Hotstamping?



As soon as we have a sufficient supply. We are working on them now.

Which is the more stable Leopards Star or Champion??

Hi Dave, I read a description of your up and coming disc the "monarch" on the discgolfsweden website. It mentioned the flight #s were the same as a roadrunner, with the exception of the speed rating being a 10 instead of a 9. I was wondering if the rim shape was convex like the roadrunner, but with a deeper rim? And also, was the monarch influenced by the fact that the roadrunner was the farthest thrown disc at Big D8? Thanks Dave!

Which is the more stable Leopards Star or Champion??



I haven't noticed a difference. In the long range drivers, the Champion tends to be a little more stable.

Hi Dave, I read a description of your up and coming disc the "monarch" on the discgolfsweden website. It mentioned the flight #s were the same as a roadrunner, with the exception of the speed rating being a 10 instead of a 9. I was wondering if the rim shape was convex like the roadrunner, but with a deeper rim? And also, was the monarch influenced by the fact that the roadrunner was the farthest thrown disc at Big D8? Thanks Dave!



The Monarch rim is unique. It does not look like a Roadrunner (or any other disc). We have been working on higher speed drivers with more turn for a while. The Monarch was designed before Big D, but we have noticed that it is easier for most people to get distance from Roadrunner type discs.

I'm anxious to see the monarchs new shape and to try it out. Your comment about roadrunner type discs is interesting because it is the only disc you make with a convex rim, making it also unique. Could it be that this type of airfoil shape has merit worth further exploration? I think the possibility exists that you could increase the glide ratio as well as the speed using a deeper bullet shape than the roadrunner. Speed #s are climbing, perhaps glide #s can follow suit. Thanks again for your never ending disc innovation.

Anything new coming to the CFRs? Anything new in general for summer besides the Pig and Monarch?

Also, do you have any idea what these may be?

Mystery Discs (http://cgi.ebay.com/new-Blueberry-dark-clan-Collector-disc-golf-set_W0QQitemZ320254666562QQihZ011QQcategoryZ20851Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem )

I know you guys are working on the monarch but are there currently any plans for an understable 11-12 speed driver.?

theres almost no more space left on the flight chart for speed 10 discs, wheres the Monarch gonna go?

So basically its going to be a beast with more turn and maybe a little less fade right?

I don't think Dave would put out another speed 10 disc unless it was more unique than simply being a less stable speed 10 disc. I've noticed that some discs can be the same speed and stability but still fly very differently because of the shape of their wings. A disc that flips but still goes more straight than lateral is the ideal.

yes, its a new speed 10 disc...... hopefully more stable than a beast

"The new Innova under stable driver Monarch is targeted at less powerful players who want to get more distance according to Dave Dunipace. It is a speed 10 driver, with a 5 glide, and a -4 turn and a 1 fade, a faster Roadrunner basically. For more powerful players, this would be a roller or long range turnover disc. The Monarch is scheduled to be available in Champion or Star. In Champion, it will be available in weights down to 154 grams; they will probably reach the shops at the end of June."

Ya and the beast is a speed 10, with a 5 glide, a -2 turn, and a 2 fade which I would say is more stable than what the monarch would be but they are just numbers to me the only way I can truely make a comparison is by throwing it.

Anything new coming to the CFRs? Anything new in general for summer besides the Pig and Monarch?

Also, do you have any idea what these may be?

Mystery Discs (http://cgi.ebay.com/new-Blueberry-dark-clan-Collector-disc-golf-set_W0QQitemZ320254666562QQihZ011QQcategoryZ20851Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem )



Don't know of anything right now.

I know you guys are working on the monarch but are there currently any plans for an understable 11-12 speed driver.?



Yes, I have been working on it for a while, but failing.

theres almost no more space left on the flight chart for speed 10 discs, wheres the Monarch gonna go?



Just to the right of the Beast

I know you guys are working on the monarch but are there currently any plans for an understable 11-12 speed driver.?



Yes, I have been working on it for a while, but failing.




This was brought up before and probably why they are going with the speed 10. Its easier to make a speed 11-12 disc thats overstable because of the width, size and shape of the rim being large and alot of the weight being transferred into it as opposed to the flight plate.
Altho if they were able to make an "understable" disc at speed 11-12 it would fly a looooooooong way. :D

they should do a wide roadrunner rim with a sidewinder top. i wonder if that has been tried.

they should do a wide roadrunner rim with a sidewinder top. i wonder if that has been tried.



It is hard to make wide rimmed convexed discs and keep them down in weight because they have too much mass.

they should do a wide roadrunner rim with a sidewinder top. i wonder if that has been tried.



It is hard to make wide rimmed convexed discs and keep them down in weight because they have too much mass.



YOU dOnT knOW....gIrlY!!! :D

It is hard to make wide rimmed convexed discs and keep them down in weight because they have too much mass.

large volume molds require less dense material to maintain legal weights

Any info on these new discs

Monarch and Pig (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/English/nyheter.aspx?NewsId=781)

Will the pig be like a bulldog?



Yes the Pig will be like a faster Rhyno and similar in flight, but not feel, to a Bulldog. The Monarch is similar to a faster Roadrunner. No release date has been set. Only the minimum number of Pigs have been made as yet. Monarchs will be in full production, but we haven't received approval yet.



http://dealer.innovadiscs.com/images/pig-monarch_main.jpg

CHECK EM' OUT.

The Monarch has been approved. And I will be in Japan for 10 days starting tomorrow.

have fun and good luck!

hope the pig makes it to production for the masses

The Monarch has been approved. And I will be in Japan for 10 days starting tomorrow.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4f/Monarch_01.jpg/200px-Monarch_01.jpg

Approves

Any info on these new discs

Monarch and Pig (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/English/nyheter.aspx?NewsId=781)

Will the pig be like a bulldog?



Yes the Pig will be like a faster Rhyno and similar in flight, but not feel, to a Bulldog. The Monarch is similar to a faster Roadrunner. No release date has been set. Only the minimum number of Pigs have been made as yet. Monarchs will be in full production, but we haven't received approval yet.



http://dealer.innovadiscs.com/images/pig-monarch_main.jpg

CHECK EM' OUT.



I recognize that Dave is out of the country until next week, but does anyone else know if these two new discs have been sent out to any retailers yet?

Allen - I do not believe that either the Pig or the Monarch have been sent to retailers. I will report back when I learn the release date(s).

Take care,
Harold

Thanks Harold. BTW, since playing that practice round with you at the IDGC last year I added a Wolf to my bag. Very predictable turnover. I came across one that seems like it is made from Pro plastic, making it a bit softer feel than the DX ones. Love it.

Thanks,
Allen

Hey nice shooting Dave! (shot even par in round 2)

hey there....i was just wondering if the Japan Open bags that came in the players pack will be available to the public to buy or if they were just specially made for the tourney. thanx :D

Dave, you just shipped 538 discs from Rancho Cucamonga to Rock Hill are they getting anything special for the USDGC or just keeping the stock up? I would like to get up to the store in Rock Hill sometime or is it a store?

Dave,
Does Innova plan on coming out with any video lessons like Discraft? I think with the caliber of Pro Players Innova has on its team, that the instruction would be un-matchable. Thanks

Dave,
When are The new Sanny Rocs going to be in normal production in lower weights? also, any release date for the new discs?

Dave,
Does Innova plan on coming out with any video lessons like Discraft? I think with the caliber of Pro Players Innova has on its team, that the instruction would be un-matchable. Thanks



Pick up a copy of the EDGE DVD. Ken Climo, Dave Dunipace, Des Reading, Jay Reading, Brian Schweberger, Avery Jenkins, and others from Team Innova.

You can't get a better lesson on the backhand than to watch Kenny at 20x slo-mo. Absolute purity of motion.

Visit www.edgediscgolf.org (http://www.edgediscgolf.org) for purchasing information.

hey there....i was just wondering if the Japan Open bags that came in the players pack will be available to the public to buy or if they were just specially made for the tourney. thanx :D



We are planning to have some of those available, but the logistics haven't been worked out yet.

Dave, you just shipped 538 discs from Rancho Cucamonga to Rock Hill are they getting anything special for the USDGC or just keeping the stock up? I would like to get up to the store in Rock Hill sometime or is it a store?



No clue. Sorry.

Dave,
Does Innova plan on coming out with any video lessons like Discraft? I think with the caliber of Pro Players Innova has on its team, that the instruction would be un-matchable. Thanks



Yes, we would like to. But so far all we have done is the EDGE video.

Dave,
When are The new Sanny Rocs going to be in normal production in lower weights? also, any release date for the new discs?



We will get to it when we can. This is the crunch time for production, so we are a little behind on some models.

The new discs will be released in June, but I don't know the specific date yet. I have not talked to the office since I came back from Japan yesterday evening. The Pig was released in Japan in 150 class. Both the Monarch and Pig have already been produced. It was just a matter of stamping and shipping when I left for Japan.

Looking forward to the Monarch, Dave. Good luck at the upcoming NT. How were the Kirin's? Saporo's?

Hey Dave got a Star XC but on the bottom it says LXC, is this an L mold or just a typo on the bottom of the disc?

i've seen quit a few echo xcalibers where it looks like lxc on the bottom but should be exc the e for echo

: ) :

Yeah but this is bright Yellow and it is clearly a LXC on the bottom.

seeing how all the L molds are marked with the mold name first and the L second (ie FL,SL) and there has never been any talk about another XC mold. i think its a safe for you to just assume that someones pen slipped.

Looking forward to the Monarch, Dave. Good luck at the upcoming NT. How were the Kirin's? Saporo's?



Thanks Kenny. Didn't have much Kirin or Saporo, but had a bunch of Chuhi and Cocktail Partner. The food was great too.

seeing how all the L molds are marked with the mold name first and the L second (ie FL,SL) and there has never been any talk about another XC mold. i think its a safe for you to just assume that someones pen slipped.



This is correct. There is only one mold. Probably a goof that should have said E instead of L.

Dave - Do you know anything about the Discmania PD? If so, is it going to come out soon?

Is it supposed to be like a destroyer or maybe slower like a firebird?

Thanks!

Dave - Do you know anything about the Discmania PD? If so, is it going to come out soon?

Is it supposed to be like a destroyer or maybe slower like a firebird?

We are still developing the PD with Discmania. The first effort wasn't successful. The next version hasn't been run yet but it is supposed to be similar to a Firebird/TeeBird, but faster than both with glide between the two. The only model tested was in 150 class and it was successful. Discmania is under no obligation to accept it. They have the final say.

Thanks!

Dave,
Why did you choose to quit making regular Cobras and opt for the Classic Cobra mold?
Thanks.

Dave,
Why did you choose to quit making regular Cobras and opt for the Classic Cobra mold?
Thanks.



We really went back to original Cobras from flattop Ontarios that we had to use while the original Cobra was broken. We felt that the original Cobra was a better disc for the market it was intended to serve.

Well bring back the Cobra with the round nose and destroy the mold with the pointy nose, whichever those are.

EDIT: there can be only ONE!

Doesn't look like 153ish Monarch's have made it to the street yet.(?) Any notion of when. Thanks.

Doesn't look like 153ish Monarch's have made it to the street yet.(?) Any notion of when. Thanks.



I don't know in your area, but you can contact Innova East. Out West, we are making them now. That usually means they should be available shortly, (if they're not already available) depending on the hot stamp schedule.

Hey Dave,

I have a 175g CE Firebird and I was wondering how old it might be and how it compares to modern Firebirds. The plastic is similar to Pro or Star not "Champion"ish like other CE discs.

Thanks for your help,
Rizbee Jr. :D

Hey Dave,

I have a 175g CE Firebird and I was wondering how old it might be and how it compares to modern Firebirds. The plastic is similar to Pro or Star not "Champion"ish like other CE discs.

Thanks for your help,
Rizbee Jr. :D



CE plastic was similar to Champion. The extra opacity of CE was due to the use of more weighting agent than we do today. I believe the CE Firebirds were run around the same time as the CE Valkyries. I don't remember if the first CE were L type or X type right now, but probably the earliest only had an F. Subsequently a large F,FL, or FX was drawn on the bottom. The least old had the smallest letters which fit into the sprue area (1" circle) on the bottom center. I believe the first CEs were red. The CEs fly just like the same type (L or X) Champion Firebirds.

Dave, I've been messing around with some DX Destroyers and am having HUGE inconsistencies with the flights. One is blue, 171g (digitally weighed for accuracy) and it's VERY understable. Had to throw it with hyzer and watch it flip. The other is a yellow 171g (also correctly weighed) and it is an overstable pig! Why are the discs coming out like this?

Dave, I've been messing around with some DX Destroyers and am having HUGE inconsistencies with the flights. One is blue, 171g (digitally weighed for accuracy) and it's VERY understable. Had to throw it with hyzer and watch it flip. The other is a yellow 171g (also correctly weighed) and it is an overstable pig! Why are the discs coming out like this?



I can't tell you why specifically, but I can tell you it is very easy to change the flight characteristic of the larger wing discs compared to the shorter wing discs. It doesn't take much of a goof by the operator in either his mix or his machine settings. Neither disc you describe is what we want. The DX Destroyer should have a slight, controllable high speed turn at maximum speed. These molding inconsistencies are frustrating for us and our customers. On the upside; both types of Destroyers are extremely useful for golf. The overstable type work for into the wind, spike shots, and sidearms. The flippy type make great rollers and are excellent for long distance throws. I would actually like to make both types. Just separately and segregated.

Is there any way at all to see which discs are either the overstable, stable, or understable versions. I was bombing the understable versions, and they're the only Destroyers I like, but I dont want to buy 10 to get the 1.

Is there any way at all to see which discs are either the overstable, stable, or understable versions. I was bombing the understable versions, and they're the only Destroyers I like, but I dont want to buy 10 to get the 1.



The overstable DX are flat and the understable are domey usually. This is sometimes something you need to compare side by side. Sometimes it is more obvious. The domey vs flat profile doesn't work for other type materials. Domey Echo Star can be very stable.

I've noticed that in the pro plastic, my favorite, the red plastic is a little more flippy than other plastics. Not sure why, but my friend who throws orcs agrees. They don't seem to make red pro plastic anymore though. If they made pro red destroyers, that would be a dream come true. Let me know if you know of any, dave.

Dave,

If you had to make a list of the, general, color to stability pairings, what would it look like?

OR do you think that the same color produces the same stability variation across plastics?

OR! do you think that any such a list of "general color stability" would even be meaningful?

As always, great thanks.

my buddy has some red pro destroyers, so they are out there

Dave,

If you had to make a list of the, general, color to stability pairings, what would it look like?

OR do you think that the same color produces the same stability variation across plastics?

OR! do you think that any such a list of "general color stability" would even be meaningful?

As always, great thanks.



I don't think the particular color will predict anything. However, some colors might serve as markers for a particular run that is more or less stable. In others words, for a particular run of discs, green might have been the most stable. That does not mean that green will always be the most stable color, or ever again be the most stable color.

dave... not a cut on you or any of the manufacturers but since its being talked about... do you see a time when there will be more predictability to brand new discs for the consumer? meaning if someone buys a particular disc it'll do what its supposed to do... and also the possibility of buying a particular model disc today and buying the same weight/model/etc in a year and having them fly the same?

i guess there are a few questions in there... and again... not picking on anyone just curious about the future of manufacturing and products for the sport.

Once we get past the speed 10 discs, it gets very hard to mold consistently. If we only made one weight, in one type plastic, from a consistent manufacturing source, on one machine, with really good operators, we would have a better shot at it. We recently hired 2 extra QC people, but things still happen.

gotcha... and why are the higher speed discs tougher to get 'right'?

i guess i was just thinking that if you and other manufacturers got HUGE and had the budgets/resources of a much bigger company like Nike or something that ya'll could put out the 'exact' same disc each time.

It has to do with the plastic shrinking/settling into its final shape. The rim of the larger rimmed disc has progressively more plastic compared to the flight plate and therefor shrinks progressively more than the plate. As the rim shrinks, it tends to sag down causing instability in flight. It only takes a tiny bit of sag on a large wing, compared to a small wing, in order to produce a noticeable effect.

thanks for the detailed &amp; succinct responses!!

Hey Dave,

I have a 175g CE Firebird and I was wondering how old it might be and how it compares to modern Firebirds. The plastic is similar to Pro or Star not "Champion"ish like other CE discs.

Thanks for your help,
Rizbee Jr. :D



CE plastic was similar to Champion. The extra opacity of CE was due to the use of more weighting agent than we do today. I believe the CE Firebirds were run around the same time as the CE Valkyries. I don't remember if the first CE were L type or X type right now, but probably the earliest only had an F. Subsequently a large F,FL, or FX was drawn on the bottom. The least old had the smallest letters which fit into the sprue area (1" circle) on the bottom center. I believe the first CEs were red. The CEs fly just like the same type (L or X) Champion Firebirds.



This one is extra opaque. You can only see your fingers through it when you hold it up to the light. Unlike other CE plastic, where you can see your fingers slightly without holding it up. This one just has "175" written on the bottom. The color of the disc is teal, though, not red. Maybe it's not a first run. I haven't thrown an FL or FX, but this one is quite overstable.

Dave,

If you had to make a list of the, general, color to stability pairings, what would it look like?

OR do you think that the same color produces the same stability variation across plastics?

OR! do you think that any such a list of "general color stability" would even be meaningful?

As always, great thanks.



I don't think the particular color will predict anything. However, some colors might serve as markers for a particular run that is more or less stable. In others words, for a particular run of discs, green might have been the most stable. That does not mean that green will always be the most stable color, or ever again be the most stable color.



Hi Dave,
Would you also agree that as the discs get "faster" it is more difficult for the thrower to get consistent results, unless they are extremely consistent in their form? I would guess that some of the reports of inconsistencies in speed 10+ discs might actually be operator error.

Hi Dave,
Would you also agree that as the discs get "faster" it is more difficult for the thrower to get consistent results, unless they are extremely consistent in their form? I would guess that some of the reports of inconsistencies in speed 10+ discs might actually be operator error.



Yes, while there are inconsistencies in disc runs, especially in the higher speed discs, there are also more opportunities for thrower error with the same disc. Large wings and low profiles mean nose attitude control is very important. These discs are much less forgiving of small nose attitude problems than mids or fairway drivers. Nose up throws will accentuate low speed fade and nose down will make the disc appear to be less stable than normal. These affects can be magnified in various wind conditions.

Hi Dave,
Would you also agree that as the discs get "faster" it is more difficult for the thrower to get consistent results, unless they are extremely consistent in their form? I would guess that some of the reports of inconsistencies in speed 10+ discs might actually be operator error.



Yes, while there are inconsistencies in disc runs, especially in the higher speed discs, there are also more opportunities for thrower error with the same disc. Large wings and low profiles mean nose attitude control is very important. These discs are much less forgiving of small nose attitude problems than mids or fairway drivers. Nose up throws will accentuate low speed fade and nose down will make the disc appear to be less stable than normal. These affects can be magnified in various wind conditions.



So in your opinion Dave what are some of the best most consistent drivers that Innova offers in Champ or Star plastic that is not the speed 10+ discs?? This is so some golfers can know what the most dependable drivers are .

teebird

teebird


+1

Have you had a chance to throw the Pig yet Dave?

teebird


+1



+2
Also the Eagle

roadrunner and leopard come to mind as exceptional drivers where controlled long distance is hoped for.
these two molds require less effort to throw therfore are easier to maintain consistant release pitches, as typically the thrower is not throwing their guts out.
oh, also the gazelle comes to mind as well for accuracy

So in your opinion Dave what are some of the best most consistent drivers that Innova offers in Champ or Star plastic that is not the speed 10+ discs?? This is so some golfers can know what the most dependable drivers are .



The stable drivers like Gazelle, TeeBird, Banshee, Eagle, and Firebird.