dx starfire, TL, SL?

dx starfire, TL, SL?



Yes, no, no.

Do you have an ETA on the dx starfire? I think a lot of people have been longing for that particular disc in dx.

Dave...I am sure this has been posted before, but I thought I would ask anyway. I have it from an Innova source, that there were some 10x roc's that got stamped with the 11x stamp. And apparently the way you can tell is by the style of rainbow stamp that went on them. Is there any truth to this? Could we be looking at some 101x roc's to go with the 18x roc's? It sounds a little off to me.

Do you have an ETA on the dx starfire? I think a lot of people have been longing for that particular disc in dx.



I hope we can get to it by the end of January.

Dave...I am sure this has been posted before, but I thought I would ask anyway. I have it from an Innova source, that there were some 10x roc's that got stamped with the 11x stamp. And apparently the way you can tell is by the style of rainbow stamp that went on them. Is there any truth to this? Could we be looking at some 101x roc's to go with the 18x roc's? It sounds a little off to me.



I can't confirm it and it does sound off to me, but if any of the 10X run didn't get stamped initially, they could have been stamped with the 11X stamp, I suppose.

Hi Dave, I just wanted to thank Innova West and East for all your assistance with the new course I've installed by my home. Also thank you for the awesome glo orc xmas disc. :DMerry Christmas!

Hi Dave, I just wanted to thank Innova West and East for all your assistance with the new course I've installed by my home. Also thank you for the awesome glo orc xmas disc. :DMerry Christmas!



You're welcome Matt. Merry Christmas

Dave,

Are the Star Cobras that were produced for the CFR Program (stamped for Mid Nationals) a different mold than the regular DX/Pro/Champ mold? I vaguely remember hearing something about this when they first came out. If so, is that the only mold used for the Star Cobras that were produced?

Thanks!

Dave,

Are the Star Cobras that were produced for the CFR Program (stamped for Mid Nationals) a different mold than the regular DX/Pro/Champ mold? I vaguely remember hearing something about this when they first came out. If so, is that the only mold used for the Star Cobras that were produced?

Thanks!



They were a different mold. The Star Cobras were done in the Classic mold. We are now using the Classic Cobra mold for all Cobras and have stopped using the Flattop Ontario mold which we had been using previously.

Do you have an ETA on the dx starfire? I think a lot of people have been longing for that particular disc in dx.



I hope we can get to it by the end of January.



Is it going to be the overstable mold used for the Champion and Star Starfires, or the less stable mold used for the Pro Starfires?

I'm not trying to tell you your business, but, imho, these two disc molds should not share the same name since their flight chracteristics are so different. I was very disappointed when I bought my first Champion Starfire because of this.

Thanks,

- JPB

Champion starfire, Star starfire=both are the X mold
Pro Starfire, Star SL=both the L mold

Sound like you just had a fluke disc and the DX starfire is suppose to be the X mold as previously stated

I have a bunch of Champion SL's.

On another topic ...

BIG thanks to Dave D for answering all our questions about Innova discs this year. Dave you're feedback and commitment to helping all of us here in the message board is PRICELESS! Thanks man! Hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday!

I have a bunch of Champion SL's.

On another topic ...

BIG thanks to Dave D for answering all our questions about Innova discs this year. Dave you're feedback and commitment to helping all of us here in the message board is PRICELESS! Thanks man! Hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday!



True that I wish Discraft would give us some feed back!

Mr. Dunipace,

Do you have any plans for a non-distance driver or a new putter for 2008-on? Are the eagle/teebird/leopard and aviar the gold standard? Seems that most of the new drivers these days are all about big D. I'd be curious to see what your vision of disc design/trends is for the next 5 years. You had previously mentioned that you prefer a limit on wing widths, so does that mean more R&D on concepts like dimples, grip pads, etc? I find it interesting that most of your team essentially carries:

firebird
teebird
roc
aviar
distance driver du jour

Thanks for answering our endless questions and Merry Christmas.

firebird
teebird
roc
aviar
distance driver du jour



That pretty much sum's up my bag. I have a new found love for the Teebird and BB DX Aviar.

Mr. Dunipace,

Do you have any plans for a non-distance driver or a new putter for 2008-on? Are the eagle/teebird/leopard and aviar the gold standard? Seems that most of the new drivers these days are all about big D. I'd be curious to see what your vision of disc design/trends is for the next 5 years. You had previously mentioned that you prefer a limit on wing widths, so does that mean more R&D on concepts like dimples, grip pads, etc? I find it interesting that most of your team essentially carries:

firebird
teebird
roc
aviar
distance driver du jour

Thanks for answering our endless questions and Merry Christmas.




No plans for a new putter. We are coming out with two mid ranges: the reissue of the Ontario Roc in Star and a new San Marino Roc in DX and in Champion/Star for USDGC. We are not working on anything specific in non distance drivers.

The discs that you named are our most accurate/useful discs in all wind conditions for power players.

Mr. Dunipace,

Do you have any plans for a non-distance driver or a new putter for 2008-on? Are the eagle/teebird/leopard and aviar the gold standard? Seems that most of the new drivers these days are all about big D. I'd be curious to see what your vision of disc design/trends is for the next 5 years. You had previously mentioned that you prefer a limit on wing widths, so does that mean more R&D on concepts like dimples, grip pads, etc? I find it interesting that most of your team essentially carries:

firebird
teebird
roc
aviar
distance driver du jour

Thanks for answering our endless questions and Merry Christmas.


I think there have been several new discs from Innova in the recent past that weren't distance drivers:

Kite
Goblin
Cro
Skeeter
Sonic
Coyote (I may be going back too far with this one)

The first four above are all slower-speed, smaller diameter mid-range discs, definitely not max-D drivers.

What direction would you want their R&D to go?

Into the basket automatically! ;)

I don't recall mentioning anything about midranges. :p

Is Innova gonna to release backsaver straps in the coming months (Jan - March 2008)?

Is Innova gonna to release backsaver straps in the coming months (Jan - March 2008)?



Yes, sometime in January, I believe.

Just wondering if anyone has tried to build a noise maker into a disc.
I was looking inside one of those music playing greeting cards and thought it would be great if I had a disc that would whistle or something when I throw it in the tall grass, up a tree etc. Make it easy to find.
There could be a small switch on the bottom to turn it on when there is a chance of losing it. Even better would be a device you carry in the pocket to activate it remotely when lost.
Only problem I see is if you whack something to hard you might jar the battery loose or break the circuit board. I would also recommend keeping it out of the water. :cool:

Dave,

I've noticed that most new Champion Teebirds and other molds are now made of an opaque plastic. Are clear/translucent champion Teebirds still being produced? If not, will the clear ones be made again? I ask because I am used to the clear ones and the opaque plastic changes the flight. Thanks.

I don't recall mentioning anything about midranges. :p


What do you call the.
Kite
Cro
Skeeter
all mids.

No [censored] sherlock.


Mr. Dunipace,

Do you have any plans for a non-distance driver or a new putter for 2008-on? Are the eagle/teebird/leopard and aviar the gold standard? Seems that most of the new drivers these days are all about big D . I'd be curious to see what your vision of disc design/trends is for the next 5 years. You had previously mentioned that you prefer a limit on wing widths, so does that mean more R&D on concepts like dimples, grip pads, etc? I find it interesting that most of your team essentially carries:

firebird
teebird
roc
aviar
distance driver du jour

Thanks for answering our endless questions and Merry Christmas.



I'm well aware of all the new mids, that's why I asked about non-distance drivers and putters. Is it really that hard to grasp??? :confused: :p

if you are aware of the mids then why didnt you know about the Kite, Cro, Goblin.... ok... ok... I'm kidding. Seriously though people... read his post... Drivers or putters ;)

Just wondering if anyone has tried to build a noise maker into a disc. :



There are older discs from the 70' / 80's that have holes along rim, called the Whistler. Not good for golf but catch.

Mr. Dunipace,

Do you have any plans for a non-distance driver...



No need to be so caustic in your reply. The differentiation between a "non-distance driver" and a midrange is pretty minor. I was just trying to help - won't bother with that again.

Merry Christmas

Mr. Dunipace,

Do you have any plans for a non-distance driver...



No need to be so caustic in your reply. The differentiation between a "non-distance driver" and a midrange is pretty minor. I was just trying to help - won't bother with that again.

Merry Christmas



I consider my first-run CE Eagles "non-distance" drivers. I use 'em when I need max-Roc-range but don't have the height to work a Roc.

teebird is non-distance driver, but not a mid. yeehaw

Dave,
I have retrieved some discs from Fountain Hills Lake and some of them had a ton of mineral build up. I soaked them in CLR to remove the minerals; my question is will the CLR cause any long term damage to the plastic. Thanks

PS. I have turned about 40 to 50 discs into Spinners on the green some of them are from out of state, whoever thinks they might have a disc in the Fountain (just about everybody who has played there!) might want to check the lost and found list.

http://www.spinnersdiscgolf.com/lostandfound.html

Dave,
I have retrieved some discs from Fountain Hills Lake and some of them had a ton of mineral build up. I soaked them in CLR to remove the minerals; my question is will the CLR cause any long term damage to the plastic. Thanks

PS. I have turned about 40 to 50 discs into Spinners on the green some of them are from out of state, whoever thinks they might have a disc in the Fountain (just about everybody who has played there!) might want to check the lost and found list.

http://www.spinnersdiscgolf.com/lostandfound.html



I doubt if the CLR hurt the plastic, especially if it was only for a short period of time. The effect if any would probably be apparent on the surface of the disc. There are some chemicals in the Fountain that have been known to etch glass, but if you didn't notice any difference in the plastic you restored, there probably wasn't any other than a gram or two extra weight from the water.

Dave,

Any plans to run SB ORCs again for anything?

Dave,

Any plans to run SB ORCs again for anything?



SB Orcs were the first of the Star Orcs, which we run now.

My question got buried beneath a pile of symantic bickering...



Dave,

I've noticed that most new Champion Teebirds and other molds are now made of an opaque plastic. Are clear/translucent champion Teebirds still being produced? If not, will the clear ones be made again? I ask because I am used to the clear ones and the opaque plastic changes the flight. Thanks.

My question got buried beneath a pile of symantic bickering...



Dave,

I've noticed that most new Champion Teebirds and other molds are now made of an opaque plastic. Are clear/translucent champion Teebirds still being produced? If not, will the clear ones be made again? I ask because I am used to the clear ones and the opaque plastic changes the flight. Thanks.








You dont like the Opaques better? To me, they are similar to the CFR Glows. IMO, if your not throwing a CE Teebird, those or the Glows are the best. They just age better.

Do you find them ( the opaques ) to be less overstable?

there probably wasn't any other than a gram or two extra weight from the water.



Really?

Dave,

Any plans to run SB ORCs again for anything?



SB Orcs were the first of the Star Orcs, which we run now.



So the SB plastic used for Tulsa AM WORLDS Orcs is STAR?

is STAR the same as Special Blend?

Thanks for the clairfication I just love the SB Tulsa Orcs and the Stars I have thrown have not been the same as far as feel of the plastic. The Tulsa ones feel more grippy :confused: mabye I just can't FEEL right :D

My question got buried beneath a pile of symantic bickering...



Dave,

I've noticed that most new Champion Teebirds and other molds are now made of an opaque plastic. Are clear/translucent champion Teebirds still being produced? If not, will the clear ones be made again? I ask because I am used to the clear ones and the opaque plastic changes the flight. Thanks.








You dont like the Opaques better? To me, they are similar to the CFR Glows. IMO, if your not throwing a CE Teebird, those or the Glows are the best. They just age better.

Do you find them ( the opaques ) to be less overstable?



I find the clear ones to be slow, glidey, and overstable. I use them more or less as an overstable midrange (the best for me as I can't get a smooth release with a beaded mid). The opaque ones are faster, less overstable, and seem to float less. The opaque ones that I've tried are not as grippy as the clear one in my bag. I might like the opaque if I threw it more, but its definetely a different disc.

Dave,

Any plans to run SB ORCs again for anything?



SB Orcs were the first of the Star Orcs, which we run now.



So the SB plastic used for Tulsa AM WORLDS Orcs is STAR?

is STAR the same as Special Blend?

Thanks for the clairfication I just love the SB Tulsa Orcs and the Stars I have thrown have not been the same as far as feel of the plastic. The Tulsa ones feel more grippy :confused: mabye I just can't FEEL right :D



Star has many noticibly different variants including grippy soft, grippy stiff, and slick stiff. Feel through enough discs and I believe they have ran most molds in multiple feels.

Regarding the opaque t-birds- you are asking about the newer opaque, not the old (KC opaque)? correct?

I love the opaque champ! A new max weight star replaced my domey clear champs. The opaques seem to be flatter and less LSS. I think that these are more grippy. A lot closer feel to old CE. That could be a good or bad thing depending on what you're looking for.

Dave,

I've noticed that most new Champion Teebirds and other molds are now made of an opaque plastic. Are clear/translucent champion Teebirds still being produced? If not, will the clear ones be made again? I ask because I am used to the clear ones and the opaque plastic changes the flight. Thanks.



Clear Champion are still being made however some weighting agent may be used for the heaviest weights making them more translucent/cloudy rather than transparent. It's difficult to make the heaviest weights in straight Champion.

Dave D. and Innova,
Thanks for the cool Christmas Orc. See you 2nd weekend in January. KL

Are those orc's a gift or can we buy em'???...if there a gift I have been REALLY GOOD this year :cool:

They are dealer discs ;)

I gotta question or 2 about Cobras

First off what model was the dx Cobra with the Innova Bar/Cobra stamp as apposed to the current Innova Swoosh/Cobra stamp? I had one that just recently blew up it had the Ontario Stamp and the Bar/Cobra Logo. I had gotten it back in 05 and I'm looking for another.

Also is there any truth that a Cobra is essentually a Roc bottom mold with a Ontario Stingray top?

I gotta question or 2 about Cobras

First off what model was the dx Cobra with the Innova Bar/Cobra stamp as apposed to the current Innova Swoosh/Cobra stamp? I had one that just recently blew up it had the Ontario Stamp and the Bar/Cobra Logo. I had gotten it back in 05 and I'm looking for another.

Also is there any truth that a Cobra is essentually a Roc bottom mold with a Ontario Stingray top?



If your Cobra said Ontario on the bottom, it was a flattop Ontario. We don't make those any more.

If the engraving on the bottom of a Roc and a Cobra were identical, there might be a case for them being the same. They're not. What is similar is the beveled edge with the bead. Stingrays and Cobras were originally very similar, but when we switched to Ontario Cobras, they became completely different. Now that we have switched the Cobra back to the original, they are again very similar.

I love the opaque champ! A new max weight star replaced my domey clear champs. The opaques seem to be flatter and less LSS. I think that these are more grippy. A lot closer feel to old CE. That could be a good or bad thing depending on what you're looking for.




Find a CFR Glow if you can.

Hey Dave I was looking through the list of approved disc saw Innova makes one called a Thunderbird being I have only played for about a year now, I have never seen one. Being that is my nick name on the course I would like to more know about it. And where if any can I buy one.

Hey Dave I was looking through the list of approved disc saw Innova makes one called a Thunderbird being I have only played for about a year now, I have never seen one. Being that is my nick name on the course I would like to more know about it. And where if any can I buy one.



The Thunderbird is more commonly called the TeeBird. We originally submitted it with both names.

So does that make the TeeRex the ThunderRex?





Happy Holidays Dave!

The ThunderBird and ThunderRex Power Hour Show! Just screams cheesy 50's sitcom.

Dave - is the CFR Raffle program over now?



I don't think so, unless something changed, and I wasn't told.
There is a drawing every month.




I did not recieve cards for my INNColor order that came in last week.

I saw the other day a Chanpion Gator X, and compared it to my first run Champ Gator and looked the same. I know the Champ Gators I bought before you discontinued the Champ Gators were a little flat but still flew like a Gator to me. What is the difference if any between a Gator x and Gator?

Also the i was wondering the difference between a Super Roc and Roc

Thanx Merry X-Mas

Tokyo

Dave - is the CFR Raffle program over now?



I don't think so, unless something changed, and I wasn't told.
There is a drawing every month.




I did not recieve cards for my INNColor order that came in last week.


Sorry, I'm not sure if you need to talk to the East or West coast office. The West coast office will be closed until Jan. 2.

I saw the other day a Chanpion Gator X, and compared it to my first run Champ Gator and looked the same. I know the Champ Gators I bought before you discontinued the Champ Gators were a little flat but still flew like a Gator to me. What is the difference if any between a Gator x and Gator?

Also the i was wondering the difference between a Super Roc and Roc

Thanx Merry X-Mas

Tokyo



Merry Christmas to you too. The Gator X is a slightly beefier Gator. The nose will be slightly blunter. The Super Roc was a different material. Same mold.

Dave,
I just got in a fresh stack of DX Archangels and noticed what appears to be a "L"-type bottom on about half of them. Is this the case or one of those times when the material "fills out" the mold and changes the rim shape? Also, is the Archangel scheduled to be run in any other plastics in 2008?

Merry Christmas,
Mike

I'd like to see a Star or Pro Archangel. I used to roll with these things when I first started playing disc golf.

Dave,
I just got in a fresh stack of DX Archangels and noticed what appears to be a "L"-type bottom on about half of them. Is this the case or one of those times when the material "fills out" the mold and changes the rim shape? Also, is the Archangel scheduled to be run in any other plastics in 2008?

Merry Christmas,
Mike



Merry Christmas Mike,

The Archangel only has one configuration that we run. However, things happen, so it could have been a molding variation or a screw up. But it wasn't done on purpose. We have no plans on running the Archangel in any other types of plastic. We tried it before but the result was much more stable than the DX and we didn't want that for the Archangel.

Dave

Hey Dave, when I first got my Star 12x Climo Wraith, it seemed to be a bit more overstable than the original Star. Is this the case, or was it just the fact of the new disc?

I have noticed the same thing too. The 12x's seem to have a bit more dome to them.

Dave, I played in a local mini the other week and a friend from my division had a blueish colored champion leopard that was extremely gummy. It also had a pro stamp on it. Any idea what run this is? Leopard is my go to and this disc was so sweet.

Hey Dave, when I first got my Star 12x Climo Wraith, it seemed to be a bit more overstable than the original Star. Is this the case, or was it just the fact of the new disc?



Just a molding variation. It's the same mold.

Dave, I played in a local mini the other week and a friend from my division had a blueish colored champion leopard that was extremely gummy. It also had a pro stamp on it. Any idea what run this is? Leopard is my go to and this disc was so sweet.



Sorry, I have no idea.

Dave, I played in a local mini the other week and a friend from my division had a blueish colored champion leopard that was extremely gummy. It also had a pro stamp on it. Any idea what run this is? Leopard is my go to and this disc was so sweet.



Sounds like the old pro or proline discs that were in the transition stages of the CE to current Champion plastic

agreed.

-Scott Lewis

.......third. I've seen them in 146-155 and above marked as KC Pro (transition from CE to Champ) and feeling/flying exactly like my last run CE Leopards of the same weights. Personally I like these later run CE Leopards better than the very stiff early "Blueberries". And even with the tacki-/gummyness they are just as durable as the early CE's. I've got a handful of others for backup, but the original two are still in my bag. They just won't wear out.:cool:

Dave, I played in a local mini the other week and a friend from my division had a blueish colored champion leopard that was extremely gummy. It also had a pro stamp on it. Any idea what run this is? Leopard is my go to and this disc was so sweet.



I was told by my partner that these were among the first Champion Leopards run and that's why they had a Pro stamp. Apparently you can still get these from the East coast office in 150 class.

I've got one of those leopards and a few Monsters like that. Best Monsters I own. :)

Darned tootin! Best 150-class Leopards EVER! One will never leave my bag (unless I lose all 23 backups I have).

I was told by my partner that these were among the first Champion Leopards run and that's why they had a Pro stamp. Apparently you can still get these from the East coast office in 150 class.



Dave and or anybody who can answer,

whats the easiest way to get ahold of the East Coast office? Any and all Innova products that I buy usually come directly from our local retailer.

thanks in advance.

800-476-3968

Hi Dave and Happy New Year!

How would you rate the Orion LS in terms of Speed, Glide, Turn, and Fade?

Also, have you done any more consideration of resurrecting the Pro Orc? It's still my favorite distance disc... :D

Hi Dave and Happy New Year!

How would you rate the Orion LS in terms of Speed, Glide, Turn, and Fade?

Also, have you done any more consideration of resurrecting the Pro Orc? It's still my favorite distance disc... :D



Happy new year Rob. I would rate the Orion LS similar to the Valkyrie, I think that's 9,5,-2,2. If you come out and visit us, I might make you some Pro Orcs.

Dave,

Has Innova tried to make a totally clear plastic, like Discraft's Cryztal? The reason I ask is because I just got an X-Out Champion Wraith X from DiscGolfvalues that was a totally transparent orange. I couldn't find anything wrong cosmeticly or mold wise with it, but the plastic is the stiffest Champ plastic I've ever felt, especially when I took it out yesterday in 30� weather. It felt almost like a headlight cover. It flines great though. I really like it. Thanks in advance

Hey Dave,

Can you tell Sam thanks for helping my mom with fulfilling my xmas list.

New zonedriven hoody, roc shirt and red long sleeve play disc golf tee, all very sweet!

Tyson

And Dave,

I heard that sponsored players recieved a pretty cool xmas orc this year, can someone post a pic? Lil' Wiggins was talking it up. Anything special about these orcs?

Dave,

Has Innova tried to make a totally clear plastic, like Discraft's Cryztal? The reason I ask is because I just got an X-Out Champion Wraith X from DiscGolfvalues that was a totally transparent orange. I couldn't find anything wrong cosmeticly or mold wise with it, but the plastic is the stiffest Champ plastic I've ever felt, especially when I took it out yesterday in 30� weather. It felt almost like a headlight cover. It flines great though. I really like it. Thanks in advance



Innova has been making transparent Champion plastic since 2000. Sometimes Champion plastic is a bit cloudy or pearly due to the mix or the mold. Lighter weights are almost always clear.

Dave,

Has Innova tried to make a totally clear plastic, like Discraft's Cryztal? The reason I ask is because I just got an X-Out Champion Wraith X from DiscGolfvalues that was a totally transparent orange. I couldn't find anything wrong cosmeticly or mold wise with it, but the plastic is the stiffest Champ plastic I've ever felt, especially when I took it out yesterday in 30� weather. It felt almost like a headlight cover. It flines great though. I really like it. Thanks in advance



Innova has been making transparent Champion plastic since 2000. Sometimes Champion plastic is a bit cloudy or pearly due to the mix or the mold. Lighter weights are almost always clear.



I'm not just talking about the flightplate. The rim is totally transparent, just like Cryztal plastic.

I have a few Innova discs that are completely clear like that. My 150 Valkyrie is very clear through the rim. It just means they probably didnt add anything for weight or grip.

And Dave,

I heard that sponsored players recieved a pretty cool xmas orc this year, can someone post a pic? Lil' Wiggins was talking it up. Anything special about these orcs?



It is a CFR Glow Orc. I can tell by the markings it is the same run as my 2005 Halloween Classic inncolor. It is marked on the inside of the rim unlike any other run i have seen. Find yourself a Glow Champion Orc and it is most likely the same run as the X-mas stamped ones.

This Orc does feel sweet. I may have to break down and throw it. Thanks Dave and the rest of the Innova staff!!

Here's a link to one on eBay if you want to see what they look like or if you're inclined to bid on it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Christmas-2007-Innov...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Christmas-2007-Innova-171-Champion-Glo-Orc_W0QQitemZ130187156147QQihZ003QQcategoryZ79804Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Hi Dave and Happy New Year!

How would you rate the Orion LS in terms of Speed, Glide, Turn, and Fade?

Also, have you done any more consideration of resurrecting the Pro Orc? It's still my favorite distance disc... :D



Happy new year Rob. I would rate the Orion LS similar to the Valkyrie, I think that's 9,5,-2,2. If you come out and visit us, I might make you some Pro Orcs.



:eek: :o:D;) :p :eek: :cool:

oooh. Nice job on the holiday stamp this year, someone.

Mine was a Glo FL, not Orc.

I think last years snowflake stamp was the best Id seen...ever.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h315/tyson99duke/ChristmasOrc.jpg (http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h315/tyson99duke/?action=view&current=ChristmasOrc.jpg)

Hi Dave. how is testing coming for the more stable speed 12 disc and the less stable speed 12 disc? also--do you think we will see a destroyer in 150 dx?
thx again

Hi Dave. how is testing coming for the more stable speed 12 disc and the less stable speed 12 disc? also--do you think we will see a destroyer in 150 dx?
thx again



Hi Steven. The initial test on the less stable speed 12 failed. We haven't tried the more stable version yet. We are currently running 150 DX Destroyers. They will be available by February.

3 quick questions, Dave:

are the new cfr star ontario rocs in the gummy star plastic?

Are you going to mold ontario rocs in champion for cfr?

When are the new San Marino rocs going to come out?

Thanks!

.

Hey Dave ... Hope you had a great holiday season!

Question: What Innova disc is most like the Discmania CD? I seem to recall someone saying it's close to a Viking. True? How would you describe the flight of this disc, and any thoughts about it?

yes! thanks again. how did they [150 dx destroyers] test? stable?

you listening vegan ray?

Hey Dave ... Hope you had a great holiday season!

Question: What Innova disc is most like the Discmania CD? I seem to recall someone saying it's close to a Viking. True? How would you describe the flight of this disc, and any thoughts about it?



I have talked personally to Jussi the president of Discmania an he said they are most like the TL

3 quick questions, Dave:

are the new cfr star ontario rocs in the gummy star plastic?

Are you going to mold ontario rocs in champion for cfr?

When are the new San Marino rocs going to come out?

Thanks!



The Star Ontarios are not gummy, although they may be a bit softer than normal. The Champion Ontarios are staying restricted to USDGC for now.

The Sam Marinos will be test shot this month, but won't be coming out for a month or so in DX. The Stars and Champions will be for USDGC.

Hey Dave ... Hope you had a great holiday season!

Question: What Innova disc is most like the Discmania CD? I seem to recall someone saying it's close to a Viking. True? How would you describe the flight of this disc, and any thoughts about it?



The CD is similar to the Viking and TL. It is fairly straight, with good speed, and good glide. I would describe it as a utility driver that can be used for most shots.

yes! thanks again. how did they [150 dx destroyers] test? stable?

you listening vegan ray?



We have been unable to do full scale testing as it has been raining for several days straight here. The initial testing here at the plant was very encouraging. They flight did not seem to be as stable as the higher end Destroyers. It flew more like a Wraith

Re: Christmas disc: David Jr. sends along his sincere thanks too.

yes! thanks again. how did they [150 dx destroyers] test? stable?

you listening vegan ray?


I'm here, with drool running down my chin. :D

I picked up a Star Gremlin this weekend (Ford Park Founders disc) - first Gremlin I've ever had. It kind of reminds me of the old Hammer. Any comments out there?

Dave, you said "Sam" Marinos. Does this mean that the mold will say something different to preserve the collector market? I appoligize for not reading back for this, so if it is so, please dont' waste your time replying. Good Job fielding so many questions (as usual) Dave!

Dave, you said "Sam" Marinos. Does this mean that the mold will say something different to preserve the collector market? I appoligize for not reading back for this, so if it is so, please dont' waste your time replying. Good Job fielding so many questions (as usual) Dave!



Typo maybe? :D

Dave, you said "Sam" Marinos. Does this mean that the mold will say something different to preserve the collector market? I appoligize for not reading back for this, so if it is so, please dont' waste your time replying. Good Job fielding so many questions (as usual) Dave!



The mold says San Marino. It is different in appearance from the original as it doesn't have the concentric rings at the bottom center and the engraving is completely different. The original top and side are being used with the new retooled core (bottom).

Good morning Dave,
I believe this year is Innova's 25th anniversary. Congratulations and thanks! I'm thinking silver for the occasion. Silver lame' shirts for the team and wicked cool silver Rocs for the rest of us? Do you have any plans for anniversary discs?
Thanks,
Axis

Do you have any plans for anniversary discs?



I think it's called the San Marino Roc. :)

I picked up a Star Gremlin this weekend (Ford Park Founders disc) - first Gremlin I've ever had. It kind of reminds me of the old Hammer. Any comments out there?




I would say that the Stars compare. The Champions are more overstable.

Good morning Dave,
I believe this year is Innova's 25th anniversary. Congratulations and thanks! I'm thinking silver for the occasion. Silver lame' shirts for the team and wicked cool silver Rocs for the rest of us? Do you have any plans for anniversary discs?
Thanks,
Axis



Wow, 25 years. I'm old. Actually, I hadn't even realized 25 years come this April. Silver does sound good for an aniversary disc. The only disc we have had for 25 years is the Aero, so that would probably be the most appropriate, though the Aviar or Roc would be nice too. Thanks.

Aviar, Roc, and Aero.....now that would be a sweeeeeet set for a 25th collection! I know you have to have some off the wall plastic combo you are wanting to try so let it RIP DAVE we are all behind ya ;) :D The Destroyer is good enough for me...just want to see you go way outside the box for FUN :cool:Happy Birthday INNOVA

25th anniversary ram for Worlds release? ;)

Thanks for your hard work Dave! Looking forward to meeting you in Kzoo!

Congrats on 25 years of producing the greatest discs anywhere. I've been throwing Innova discs for 25 years now and Aviar and Roc are still my staple. How about a re-issue of the original "Eagle". I still have one I throw every few years. :cool:

How many players out there have been throwing Innova since 1983? :D

How many players out there have been throwing Innova since 1983? :D



Only the old geezers :D

How many players out there have been throwing Innova since 1983? :D



Only the old geezers :D



Does that include you yet MC?? :D

How many players out there have been throwing Innova since 1983? :D



Only the old geezers :D



Excuse me, but I resemble that remark. In honor of the 25th anniversary I think I'll break out my '83 WDGC Shuttle Eagle for use this year. What a great, predictable, turnover fairway driver!

With Rizbee. The visage in the mirror is older, the lines exist and are deepening, the arms aches more and all things don't fly quite so far (without accounting for the new drivers and their compensatory properties) but the manufacturer of the plastic in my bag remains the same. Aviars and Rocs in the bag forever, some happy younger cousins, and an appreciation for the skills employed by those who have made the discs that have made the sport more and more fun, for myself and our next generation.

Happy Silver.

Bill Maury-Holmes

I was trying to find when Big D in the Desert will take place this year? Anyone have a link? Mr. Sandstrom? :DAvery?

Hey Dave,

Just curious but if Coda was to win Worlds do you know what his signature disc would be?? I would say a Firebird but just wondering.

Big D is april 5-7th

Mr. Dave i am wondering if there is ever going to be a general release of a gummy star plastic putter. I think that a Avair driver in gummy star would be a wonderful disc.Also i was wondering if there are plans for a pro roadrunner Thanks

I was trying to find when Big D in the Desert will take place this year? Anyone have a link? Mr. Sandstrom? :DAvery?


Link:
https://www.discgolfvalues.com/BigDVIII.htm

Hey Dave,

Just curious but if Coda was to win Worlds do you know what his signature disc would be?? I would say a Firebird but just wondering.



Too far in the future to make any decisions about that.

Mr. Dave i am wondering if there is ever going to be a general release of a gummy star plastic putter. I think that a Avair driver in gummy star would be a wonderful disc.Also i was wondering if there are plans for a pro roadrunner Thanks



Gummy Star P&A yes. A Driver,,,maybe. No plans for a Pro Roadrunner at this time, but it's not a bad idea.

Where did the idea for the bird on the Roc come from? significance? What bird is it anyway? (buzzard?) Finally, where did the name 'Roc' come from?

"Roc" = giant bird in eastern mythology

NICE... all questions answered @ once!

Hey Dave any word on when the 2008 catalog will be out?

Hey Dave any word on when the 2008 catalog will be out?



I hear they will be shipping next week.

I have a question about these new San Marino Rocs. Will they be available (at mfg retail price) to the general disc golfing public or will those of us with no connections have to buy them at inflated prices on eBay? Just wondering since a lot of the primo stuff goes to certain folks out there who slap them up on eBay, sort of like the Star Ontario Rocs. I think there are a lot of folks/clubs who would like a slice of that pie. rWc****

How many players out there have been throwing Innova since 1983? :D



Only the old geezers :D



Excuse me, but I resemble that remark. In honor of the 25th anniversary I think I'll break out my '83 WDGC Shuttle Eagle for use this year. What a great, predictable, turnover fairway driver!



I still got a, what is now known as a, "prototype" Eagle in my bag, for those special turnover shots. A 1-owner disc!

Not necessarily a question for Dave but for anyone. A friend of mine has a Dolphin hanging up at his house and I was wondering what it is. Just looking at the rim and all it looks like a more overstable Roc. And I think a disc like that would be SWEET. So anyone that can tell me about it and maybe give me the number characteristics that would be Great!

Thanks
Scott

The Dolphin was an old school floater. The only people I know who threw them were women and children (me as a kid and, later, my pal's stoney-baby girlfriend(mostly because she thought dolphins were cute)). I wouldn't waste too much time tracking one down, as they are only good for not sinking in the pond. Surely the experts on the MB can recommend a more overstable Roc-like disc for you, but IMO Innova was very much justified in discontinuing the Dolphin. That being said, I have 2 Dolphins for trade/sale if anybody wants 'em.

Understable 150g (though I believe there were some heavier-weight star stamped protos) floating driver a la the Dragon.

Wow it didn't seem that way at all. It is a 170. Just the way the wing looks I thought it would be like a Roc but more overstable.

Peace

I have a question about these new San Marino Rocs. Will they be available (at mfg retail price) to the general disc golfing public or will those of us with no connections have to buy them at inflated prices on eBay? Just wondering since a lot of the primo stuff goes to certain folks out there who slap them up on eBay, sort of like the Star Ontario Rocs. I think there are a lot of folks/clubs who would like a slice of that pie. rWc****



DX San Marinos, will be available through custom HS or regular channels at regular prices. The Champion and Star will be reserved for USDGC/EDGE fundraising. The Star Ontarios are available to all tournaments for custom hotstamping at regular prices now. Right now quantities are limited, but as soon as we run sufficient numbers to go around, the limit will be raised.

Dave,

Can you elaborate on the Beadless Rhyno? I have one on the way and am curious about it. Its essentially a Rhyno-L, correct? is this going into production or cfrs?

Thanks, sir.

the Beadless Rhyno..


I'll take a stack or two of soft pro's!

wasn't the beadless rhyno a Ching Tank? that was one of my first putters. would love that if they would come back

ce

Dave-any idea when retailers will have the 150 dx destroyers? thx

the Beadless Rhyno..


I'll take a stack or two of soft pro's!



Ditto...

It would have made it into my bag, except for the plastic...


What discs are in your bag? :)

Dave,

Can you elaborate on the Beadless Rhyno? I have one on the way and am curious about it. Its essentially a Rhyno-L, correct? is this going into production or cfrs?

Thanks, sir.



The beadless Rhyno was actually a small bead Tank made for Ching. We truly could make a completely beadless Rhyno now, ala the new beadless Aviar P&A, but we don't have any plans to do that presently. Not a bad idea though.

Dave-any idea when retailers will have the 150 dx destroyers? thx



Probably mid February. We have been making them down to 135gms. Even at 135g, they fly like a heavy disc. Very fun.

awesome-thanks Dave. are these much different than the 150 dx wraiths, and if so how?

Can you elaborate on the Beadless Rhyno? I have one on the way..



The beadless Rhyno was actually a small bead Tank made for Ching. We truly could make a completely beadless Rhyno now, ala the new beadless Aviar P&A, but we don't have any plans to do that presently. Not a bad idea though.


I think dgdave is talking about some recent proto Star beadless Rhynos that got the Big D stamp for this year. Sounds tasty!

awesome-thanks Dave. are these much different than the 150 dx wraiths, and if so how?



I haven't had a chance to play with them, only test throw so my opinion is based on a quick look so far. This weekend I will be able to throw them more. That being said, it appears that the Destroyers are longer and a little more high speed stable than the Wraiths.

Mr. Dave, I have a champion Firebird that is mainly transparent with a minimal amount of cloudyness. However when i use it and it gets cold it turns a lot more cloudy. I was just wondering why.
Thanks

Mr. Dave, I have a champion Firebird that is mainly transparent with a minimal amount of cloudyness. However when i use it and it gets cold it turns a lot more cloudy. I was just wondering why.
Thanks



I don't know. Never heard that one before. I could take a guess or two. I might guess that the polymer chains line up slightly differently in the cold, such that the material is stiffer and more cloudy. That is just a WAG and the real story is that I have never noticed this and have no clue. Sorry.

Dave I saw a disc called the stingroc a roc top with a stingray bottom. Was this ever produced?
Thank you for your time.

I remember the Moray, maybe thats what it is?
It did not catch on and wasn't around for long either.
Early 90's??? Just a guess.
D.P. :D

Dave I saw a disc called the stingroc a roc top with a stingray bottom. Was this ever produced?
Thank you for your time.



We never produced a disc called the Stingroc, but we did make one run of discs called the 2500 that sounds like that. The Hammer was the closest disc we produced that was like what you described.

I have a question about these new San Marino Rocs. Will they be available (at mfg retail price) to the general disc golfing public or will those of us with no connections have to buy them at inflated prices on eBay? Just wondering since a lot of the primo stuff goes to certain folks out there who slap them up on eBay, sort of like the Star Ontario Rocs. I think there are a lot of folks/clubs who would like a slice of that pie. rWc****



DX San Marinos, will be available through custom HS or regular channels at regular prices. The Champion and Star will be reserved for USDGC/EDGE fundraising. The Star Ontarios are available to all tournaments for custom hotstamping at regular prices now. Right now quantities are limited, but as soon as we run sufficient numbers to go around, the limit will be raised.



Warning: Noob Question...

What's the easiest way to obtian one (or any) of the Champion Rocs this year?

Do you have to play in a special event to get one of these or will you be able to order straightfoward?

I've been wanting to add a champ to the bag for some time now.

Thanx.

You can still buy some from 2006 here. (http://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/index.php?p=catalog&parent=38&pg=1)

You can still buy some from 2006 here. (http://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/index.php?p=catalog&parent=38&pg=1)



Thanx, like the "throwback" champs, wish they had one over 169...can't have it all!

Dave I saw a disc called the stingroc a roc top with a stingray bottom. Was this ever produced?
Thank you for your time.



This one?

http://www.clearwaterdiscgolfstore.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/34/products_id/1198

You can still buy some from 2006 here. (http://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/index.php?p=catalog&parent=38&pg=1)



Saw this one, but wondering if it's really a roc or not, anyone confirm?

http://www.clearwaterdiscgolfstore.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/1771

You can still buy some from 2006 here. (http://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/index.php?p=catalog&parent=38&pg=1)



Saw this one, but wondering if it's really a roc or not, anyone confirm?

http://www.clearwaterdiscgolfstore.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/1771



that's an 05 X-Out.

Dave I saw a disc called the stingroc a roc top with a stingray bottom. Was this ever produced?
Thank you for your time.



This one?

http://www.clearwaterdiscgolfstore.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/34/products_id/1198



I don't know what this is.

did Innova make that disc??? Stingroc?

Quality Control anyone?

Dave I saw a disc called the stingroc a roc top with a stingray bottom. Was this ever produced?
Thank you for your time.



This one?

http://www.clearwaterdiscgolfstore.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/34/products_id/1198



I don't know what this is.



I have one like that, it says "Pro 2" on the bottom, it is a DGA Professional Driver #2 made by Innova in 1992 or 1993 or so.

Dave I saw a disc called the stingroc a roc top with a stingray bottom. Was this ever produced?
Thank you for your time.



This one?

http://www.clearwaterdiscgolfstore.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/34/products_id/1198



I don't know what this is.



I have one like that, it says "Pro 2" on the bottom, it is a DGA Professional Driver #2 made by Innova in 1992 or 1993 or so.



Yes, we made the Pro Series for DGA. It was a disc very similar to the Millennium Aurora MS, that was factored for models #2 and #3. It did not have a Stingray bottom. It did, however have a Stingray-like bevel.

You can still buy some from 2006 here. (http://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/index.php?p=catalog&parent=38&pg=1)



Saw this one, but wondering if it's really a roc or not, anyone confirm?

http://www.clearwaterdiscgolfstore.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/1771



That is indeed a Roc, I've seen them at the store (Clearwater disc golf store).

Hi Dave--did the PDGA limit wing or rim width to 2.6 cm? what is the rim width of the destroyer? thx

Hi Dave--did the PDGA limit wing or rim width to 2.6 cm? what is the rim width of the destroyer? thx



I don't know... did they? :D
www.pdga.com (http://www.pdga.com) <--- look at the main article

Destroyer < 2.6cm... look under rules, pdga approved discs and targets

This stuff isn't rocket science to find...

Give a man a fish...

Hey Dave,
Thanks for sponsoring the NorCal vs SoCal Challenge.
Can't wait to try out the new dx destroyer and the star ontario roc.
Great playing with you this weekend. Discette too!
See you at Masters Cup. KL

Hi Dave--did the PDGA limit wing or rim width to 2.6 cm? what is the rim width of the destroyer? thx



The Destroyer is listed at 2.2cm. We measured it slightly larger at 2.3.

Dave I saw a disc called the stingroc a roc top with a stingray bottom. Was this ever produced?
Thank you for your time.



This one?

http://www.clearwaterdiscgolfstore.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/34/products_id/1198



I don't know what this is.



I have one like that, it says "Pro 2" on the bottom, it is a DGA Professional Driver #2 made by Innova in 1992 or 1993 or so.



Yes, we made the Pro Series for DGA. It was a disc very similar to the Millennium Aurora MS, that was factored for models #2 and #3. It did not have a Stingray bottom. It did, however have a Stingray-like bevel.



Could this be a correct description?
http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc.aspx?DiscId=1635

well thank you very much really bad putter! It wasn't rocket science! So Dave-I would guess this means innova will make drivers with rim widths out to 2.6? personally [and when I filled out my questionaire] I wanted to see them capped at 2.2 or 2.3.
Thanks again

well thank you very much really bad putter! It wasn't rocket science! So Dave-I would guess this means innova will make drivers with rim widths out to 2.6? personally [and when I filled out my questionaire] I wanted to see them capped at 2.2 or 2.3.
Thanks again



I don't know what we are going to do yet. I too wanted it capped at 2.3cm. I would image we will make a 2.4 at some point, but it is going to get progressively more difficult to make lighter weights in anything but DX.

Dave I saw a disc called the stingroc a roc top with a stingray bottom. Was this ever produced?
Thank you for your time.



This one?

http://www.clearwaterdiscgolfstore.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/34/products_id/1198



I don't know what this is.



I have one like that, it says "Pro 2" on the bottom, it is a DGA Professional Driver #2 made by Innova in 1992 or 1993 or so.



Yes, we made the Pro Series for DGA. It was a disc very similar to the Millennium Aurora MS, that was factored for models #2 and #3. It did not have a Stingray bottom. It did, however have a Stingray-like bevel.



Could this be a correct description?
http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc.aspx?DiscId=1635



Yes, basically a San Marino Roc with a Stingray bevel. This was and is an excellent disc (#1 type), that got no notice when it came out.

Can you elaborate on the Beadless Rhyno? I have one on the way..



The beadless Rhyno was actually a small bead Tank made for Ching. We truly could make a completely beadless Rhyno now, ala the new beadless Aviar P&A, but we don't have any plans to do that presently. Not a bad idea though.


I think dgdave is talking about some recent proto Star beadless Rhynos that got the Big D stamp for this year. Sounds tasty!



I just got this disc in and it has a P&A bottom. No bead at all. There is no marking on the back except 175.

Mark at DiscGolfValues said a few were handed out for testing. Any word back?

I just got this disc in and it has a P&A bottom. No bead at all. There is no marking on the back except 175.

Mark at DiscGolfValues said a few were handed out for testing. Any word back?



Sounds like a regular Aviar to me. The new ones are beadless like the originals.

It does look like a P&A bottom with the Rhyno thumbtrac top. The nose seems blunter like an Aviar X. Any plans on running more of these or was this a 1 time deal? He said only 20 came out as non X-Outs.

It does look like a P&A bottom with the Rhyno thumbtrac top. The nose seems blunter like an Aviar X. Any plans on running more of these or was this a 1 time deal? He said only 20 came out as non X-Outs.



I got confused again by your calling the bevel, the bottom. There are three parts to a mold. The bottom or core, is the part that has engraving on it. Typically it says Rancho Cucamonga, Ontario, or San Marino. The bead (or no bead) part is the side or stripper. The nose is part of the top or cavity. A Rhyno with no bead must be a test disc. Rhynos have big beads and Tanks have small beads. The noses are all the same.

dave,
i have gotten a couple pro rhyno's that are pretty stiff. are they going to coming out firmer or was this just a production flaw? it almost as firm as a KC pro disc.

dave,
i have gotten a couple pro rhyno's that are pretty stiff. are they going to coming out firmer or was this just a production flaw? it almost as firm as a KC pro disc.



That was a production flaw. Pro Rhynos should be much more flexible than KC Pro.

I have to check some infos I got.
Gopher question: Has there been a test run or proto without the thumbtrac?

Pirhana questions, is this correct : "No Thumbtrac prototype released in 92, the original narrow tall Thumbtrac released in the end of 93 and it looks like a Zephyr with a smaller diameter. Pirhana is a overstable approach and putt disc. Than retooled two times with a narrow short Thumbtrac, less overstable compared to the original. Second retooling made around 98 (?) with a wider Thumtrac than the predecessor, the second retooling of Piranha became the third generation Birdie."

I have to check some infos I got.
Gopher question: Has there been a test run or proto without the thumbtrac?

Pirhana questions, is this correct : "No Thumbtrac prototype released in 92, the original narrow tall Thumbtrac released in the end of 93 and it looks like a Zephyr with a smaller diameter. Pirhana is a overstable approach and putt disc. Than retooled two times with a narrow short Thumbtrac, less overstable compared to the original. Second retooling made around 98 (?) with a wider Thumtrac than the predecessor, the second retooling of Piranha became the third generation Birdie."



The Gopher did have a proto run. At one time it was also called the Gofor.
There was no Piranha without a Thumtrac. That was a Birdie. There were three generations of Birdie and three of the Piranha. The third generation Piranha's name was changed to be the Birdie. In other words, the third generation Birdie and Piranha were the same disc.

mr dave what kind of disc is a dx griffen. thank you

dave,
i have gotten a couple pro rhyno's that are pretty stiff. are they going to coming out firmer or was this just a production flaw? it almost as firm as a KC pro disc.




Yeah the past few that I have seen were stiff and slick and taking a lot more time to break in, hope soon the mold get back to the way it should be.
That was a production flaw. Pro Rhynos should be much more flexible than KC Pro.

my buddy recently bought 2 pro ryhnos and they are crazy firm. The edge on them was also really sharp. He had to sand it down because it was hurting his hand. What happened to the soft/flexible ones we came to know and love?

mr dave what kind of disc is a dx griffen. thank you



A Griffen was like a cross between a Whippet and a Gator. Blunt nose, but fast and overstable. Also pretty durable for a fast disc.

my buddy recently bought 2 pro ryhnos and they are crazy firm. The edge on them was also really sharp. He had to sand it down because it was hurting his hand. What happened to the soft/flexible ones we came to know and love?



This had to either be molding mix errors or hot stamp errors on DX Rhynos. Pro Rhynos are supposed to be either medium soft or very soft, not firm in any way.

Dave, what's the minimum allowable retail price for a CFR Star Ontario Roc, not including shipping? I heard it was $25, then saw some selling at $20. Since the minimum is there to protect the fundraising purpose of CFRs, what happens when TDs sell them below the minimum?

Star Ontarios came out great, btw. Thanks for making these regular CFR!!

Dave, what's the minimum allowable retail price for a CFR Star Ontario Roc, not including shipping? I heard it was $25, then saw some selling at $20. Since the minimum is there to protect the fundraising purpose of CFRs, what happens when TDs sell them below the minimum?

Star Ontarios came out great, btw. Thanks for making these regular CFR!!



The suggested minimum for these discs should be the same as any other custom hot stamped Star disc. These Star Ontarios are reserved for tournaments and events, but are not CFR, unless they carry an INNColor design.

my buddy recently bought 2 pro ryhnos and they are crazy firm. The edge on them was also really sharp. He had to sand it down because it was hurting his hand. What happened to the soft/flexible ones we came to know and love?



This had to either be molding mix errors or hot stamp errors on DX Rhynos. Pro Rhynos are supposed to be either medium soft or very soft, not firm in any way.



My new white one was very sharp on the edge and took about a month of playing with to start to soften it up. All I have found were white ones lately may be something happend with these. I have a couple yellows that are nice and soft.

Mystery solved .. thanks Dave!

You brought it up, dave...I couldn't resist.

have you ever produced a "kc" type plastic rhyno? Some DX have been really stiff but not the resilliant plastic. I know kenny doesn't throw the "R-Bomb" but have you ever experimented?
...has a ram ever been run in anythhing else than DX also???
Thanks!

You brought it up, dave...I couldn't resist.

have you ever produced a "kc" type plastic rhyno? Some DX have been really stiff but not the resilliant plastic. I know kenny doesn't throw the "R-Bomb" but have you ever experimented?
...has a ram ever been run in anythhing else than DX also???
Thanks!



I have been throwing SE Soft Rhynos for years. I bought 3 online last year and they were all rancho molds, unlike my stack of Ontarios. To my surprise these were all much harder than the normal SE Soft Rhynos, alot like a kc aviar. Has anyone else seen or felt these? These may have been mistakes, but the plastic feels alot like Kc plastic to me.

You brought it up, dave...I couldn't resist.

have you ever produced a "kc" type plastic rhyno? Some DX have been really stiff but not the resilliant plastic. I know kenny doesn't throw the "R-Bomb" but have you ever experimented?
...has a ram ever been run in anythhing else than DX also???
Thanks!



I never ran a KC type Rhyno or even experimented with it. It would be too stiff. As far as I can recall, we have only run Rams in DX, although we could use KC Roc plastic for Rams. We have run KC Whippets before.

Dave,

When do you antipate the re-release of dx SM roc's?

thnks

You brought it up, dave...I couldn't resist.

have you ever produced a "kc" type plastic rhyno? Some DX have been really stiff but not the resilliant plastic. I know kenny doesn't throw the "R-Bomb" but have you ever experimented?
...has a ram ever been run in anythhing else than DX also???
Thanks!



I have been throwing SE Soft Rhynos for years. I bought 3 online last year and they were all rancho molds, unlike my stack of Ontarios. To my surprise these were all much harder than the normal SE Soft Rhynos, alot like a kc aviar. Has anyone else seen or felt these? These may have been mistakes, but the plastic feels alot like Kc plastic to me.



I used to have a Pro Rhyno that was stiff like KC plastic...but I think it was due to something the previous owner did to alter the plastic. The disc had a greyish scaly look to it and smelled like motor oil...I'm guessing someone let it sit in some kind of solution that made it stiffen up :confused:

Dave,

When do you antipate the re-release of dx SM roc's?

thnks



Probably Spring. We have gotten behind with molding, but the San Marino should go in in a couple of weeks. After that it's run time, shipping and hot stamping time.

this is a odd question but have you ever considered making a newer driver in the hard kc pro plastic. such as a wraith,destroyer, teerex ect.

my buddy recently bought 2 pro ryhnos and they are crazy firm. The edge on them was also really sharp. He had to sand it down because it was hurting his hand. What happened to the soft/flexible ones we came to know and love?



This had to either be molding mix errors or hot stamp errors on DX Rhynos. Pro Rhynos are supposed to be either medium soft or very soft, not firm in any way.



It sounds like the part was packed out too much and it flashed where the parts of the mold meet. Universal in ALL injection molding.

this is a odd question but have you ever considered making a newer driver in the hard kc pro plastic. such as a wraith,destroyer, teerex ect.



The KC Pro plastic is difficult to work with so we have limited it to two models. We wanted to use it on more models, but it just wasn't practical.

Dave,

Was there a reason for the switch from the soft gummy plastic in the 3X and 4X JK Pro Aviar-x's to the current stiffer 5X plastic? Any plans to reintroduce the gummy plastic of the past? Thanks in advance!

Dave,

Was there a reason for the switch from the soft gummy plastic in the 3X and 4X JK Pro Aviar-x's to the current stiffer 5X plastic? Any plans to reintroduce the gummy plastic of the past? Thanks in advance!



The reason was the plastic changed and we were no longer able to mold the softer JKs without warps and sunken flight plates. We make them as soft as we reasonably can.

So if I have a disc with a sunken flight plate, what does that do to the flight?

Say an aviar x for instance...?

Will there be any plans for more runs of KC Whippets? It is such an awesome disc.

So if I have a disc with a sunken flight plate, what does that do to the flight?

Say an aviar x for instance...?



It makes the grip feel different, it looks odd, and it doesn't carry as well. For those who like over stable bricks, it might be better. But for those who like stable, and for those who drive or throw long approaches with them, they are worse. We do not want to make them with sunken plates, but that sometimes happens post molding with soft discs.

So if I have a disc with a sunken flight plate, what does that do to the flight?

Say an aviar x for instance...?



It makes the grip feel different, it looks odd, and it doesn't carry as well. For those who like over stable bricks, it might be better. But for those who like stable, and for those who drive or throw long approaches with them, they are worse. We do not want to make them with sunken plates, but that sometimes happens post molding with soft discs.



To me, an aviar is at its best with a sunken flight plate. I often work them for hours before use because they are much more comfortable in my hand. Definitely love the way they fly when they're like that.

Thanks Dave for the info!

So if I have a disc with a sunken flight plate, what does that do to the flight?

Say an aviar x for instance...?



It makes the grip feel different, it looks odd, and it doesn't carry as well. For those who like over stable bricks, it might be better. But for those who like stable, and for those who drive or throw long approaches with them, they are worse. We do not want to make them with sunken plates, but that sometimes happens post molding with soft discs.



The reason I asked was that I have an Aviar-X that is sunken...

And I throw a lot of stable putters...

10x kc pro
Star Aviar Driver...(<--love it)

Is it true that the Star Aviar Driver is the KC Pro Aviar in Star plastic?

Yep, Big Bead Aviar mold. Same as JK-pro too

Dave,

What are the main differences between the San Marino Stingray and the Ontario Stingray, specifically in flight characteristics? oh, and can you bring back the CE Cobra....

Dave,

What are the main differences between the San Marino Stingray and the Ontario Stingray, specifically in flight characteristics? oh, and can you bring back the CE Cobra....



Hi Tom,

The San Marino Stingray differs from the Ontario (aka flat top) Stingray in that it has more carry and less over stability.

The CE Cobra did not sell well. We currently have Star Cobras CFR that are not selling well either, so it is unlikely that we will run either in the near future.

I love my bronze ce cobra. Only use it at tourneys.

Here's another dinosaur mourning the apparent passing of the Champion plastic Cobra. Woe. Woe is me. :(

i beleive the champ cobra is the best all around midrange that ive thrown period.
ive had bad expieriance with rocks, so i began throwing buzzes but
came back to innova with the champ cobra and the champ panther.
im not a fan of either of these discs in d plastic.
ive yet to try a star cobra, what is the comparison scuttle but?

i didn't realize at the time i got the disc, but i was looking thru my discs and i bought a pro starfire stamped disc on star plastic. not that i am complaining, but wow, a good find.

i beleive the champ cobra is the best all around midrange that ive thrown period.
ive had bad expieriance with rocks, so i began throwing buzzes but
came back to innova with the champ cobra and the champ panther.
im not a fan of either of these discs in d plastic.
ive yet to try a star cobra, what is the comparison scuttle but?



I haven't heard any. I am interested too.

i beleive the champ cobra is the best all around midrange that ive thrown period.
ive had bad expieriance with rocks, so i began throwing buzzes but
came back to innova with the champ cobra and the champ panther.
im not a fan of either of these discs in d plastic.
ive yet to try a star cobra, what is the comparison scuttle but?



I haven't heard any. I am interested too.



I have some buddies who are Cobra fans from waaayyyy back and they are really pleased with the Star Cobras and describe them as straight out of the box. In their opinions the Champ Cobras were too stable.

My understanding was that the Star Cobra's were the Classic Cobra mold which was less stable to begin with. Those of us who like the Champs liked that extra stability and durability. That said I'd still have bought Star's except they came only in Neanderthal, knuckle dragging weights. :D

I have a Pro Cobra that I absolutely love for straight shots, especially low ones. Which mold are the Star Cobras - San Marino or Ontario?

Dave i was wondering what your top 5 sellers in 2008 were, and what your lowest 5 sellers were?

I have a Pro Cobra that I absolutely love for straight shots, especially low ones. Which mold are the Star Cobras - San Marino or Ontario?



Pretty sure the Star Cobra are new San Marino type.

Dave i was wondering what your top 5 sellers in 2008 were, and what your lowest 5 sellers were?



I guess you mean 2007.
I am not sure exactly what the top five sellers were but three of the top five were Aviar, Shark, and Valkyrie. The Wraith is up there. The lowest five would be have to be defined as we have small quantity discs such as CFR or Champion Rocs for USDGC. We also have discontinued discs that still sell like the Pegasus and Raven.

Dave,

Do you know why it seems very hard to find any Blue Pro Rhyno's? Seems like all I can find from online retailers are the White stiffer model?
Any help would be appreciated since the flexability of the Blue is perfect for me.

Thanks

Dave,

Do you know why it seems very hard to find any Blue Pro Rhyno's? Seems like all I can find from online retailers are the White stiffer model?
Any help would be appreciated since the flexability of the Blue is perfect for me.

Thanks



I agree the Blue and Yellow were perfect now all I see are the whites and Neon yellow Rhynos, I think that it was the last run they did and some dx plastic might have got mixed in with the Pro plastic that they use for the Rhynos.

Dave,

Do you know why it seems very hard to find any Blue Pro Rhyno's? Seems like all I can find from online retailers are the White stiffer model?
Any help would be appreciated since the flexability of the Blue is perfect for me.

Thanks



Pro Rhynos, in any color are rarer than white. You can try asking on line dealers. Mark at discgolfvalues might be able to help you or could try zonedriven. Other than that, you could ask on the discussion board. I will make a better effort to ensure we are running the softer kind next time.

How many colors of 12x kc pro aviars are there?

I have seen White, Red, and Blue.

Any others?

Blues? Haven't heard of those.

I've seen Black, Orange, and a pinkish red

i have two yellow pro rhynos that are soft and a day glo yellow stiff pro rhyno. i use a burnt orange pro rhyno and the regular white pro rhyno. i also use yellow and teal green champ rhyno.

Hi Dave-
when do you expect retailers to have the lightweight dx destroyers?
thx

How many colors of 12x kc pro aviars are there?

I have seen White, Red, and Blue.

Any others?



Black.

Hi Dave-
when do you expect retailers to have the lightweight dx destroyers?
thx



We will start hot stamping this week, I believe. So I imagine they will be shipped to retailers after that, but I don't know for sure. Stuff happens.

Dave,

Do you have any insight on a disc my friend has?

He has a factory blank pink San Marino Roc 3 ring mold. The interesting part is that it glows in the dark and has "6/8" on the back. Any info would be great. Thanks!

Hi Dave-
when do you expect retailers to have the lightweight dx destroyers?
thx



We will start hot stamping this week, I believe. So I imagine they will be shipped to retailers after that, but I don't know for sure. Stuff happens.



Apparently stuff did happen. At least the sales guys tell me we are behind in hotstamping so it might not start until next week or so.

How many colors of 12x kc pro aviars are there?

I have seen White, Red, and Blue.

Any others?



Hey Andrew you should check out the Blackish Grey KC's...they feel SAUCY and I don't even throw Aviars.

Dave,

Do you have any insight on a disc my friend has?

He has a factory blank pink San Marino Roc 3 ring mold. The interesting part is that it glows in the dark and has "6/8" on the back. Any info would be great. Thanks!



Sorry no clue other than it is an old one. I know we experimented with colored glow material. It might be that, but I really have no clue.

I have a blueish green glow cobra I got from Snapper with a Morley Stamp in 1989 that is one of 10.

How many colors of 12x kc pro aviars are there?

I have seen White, Red, and Blue.

Any others?



Hey Andrew you should check out the Blackish Grey KC's...they feel SAUCY and I don't even throw Aviars.



I knew about the blacks as well, I have seen them on ebay only though never in person, I have seen but not throw the blue and red now...

I am interested in the blue because the guy who had it said it was really overstable....

Thoughts?

Conners?

Dave D?

Never seen the blue ones. But the blackish grey ones act stable, imo.

Dave, I bought a SL from Huklab last week and it is super-stable, more stable than my firebirds. Does this happen sometimes? Disc just come out different. My star SL I could turn over nicely and I wanted to get a Champion one.

Dave, I bought a SL from Huklab last week and it is super-stable, more stable than my firebirds. Does this happen sometimes? Disc just come out different. My star SL I could turn over nicely and I wanted to get a Champion one.



Sometimes the SLs come out with a tiny thin line of flashing on the bottom of the rim. Once this is removed by wear or towel rubbing, the disc will act normally.

Whats the diff. between the 11x aviars, and the 12x aviars. I use some 11x's that I really like but they are now selling for $50.00, which is ridiculous and makes buying back-ups/ extra practice putters quite expensive. So I bought a few 12x's to use and I haven't really noticed much of a difference so far other than maybe the 12x's are a little slick. It is cold here in Ohio so that is probably masking any subtle differences. Did you change plastic suppliers, molds, or is it all in peoples heads? $50.00 is a lot of money for a putter.

If you get the newest run of the flat 12x's, there's not much difference. I think the 12x's are a bit softer. The first run of 12x's were softer and domey and were much different

Hi Dave,

I have 2 CE Firebirds that feel Identical but one has just an F and the other Has FX on the back. Is there any way that these are the same even thought they are marked differently. They have the same spotty Chrome/Blue/Pink/Gold Stamp. The F is Orange and the FX is a lighter green. I also have a Darker Green marked FX with a blue diamond holographic stamp. Is there any way you can tell me what runs these are from so I can find backups?


Thanks

JT

Whats the diff. between the 11x aviars, and the 12x aviars. I use some 11x's that I really like but they are now selling for $50.00, which is ridiculous and makes buying back-ups/ extra practice putters quite expensive. So I bought a few 12x's to use and I haven't really noticed much of a difference so far other than maybe the 12x's are a little slick. It is cold here in Ohio so that is probably masking any subtle differences. Did you change plastic suppliers, molds, or is it all in peoples heads? $50.00 is a lot of money for a putter.




For $50.00, you should buy a 9x. They are much more predictable, and age into a better putter. The stiffer plastic versions make for better approaches, while the harder to find soft 9x make for the better putter.The 11x are similar to the softer version of the 9x, as the 12x are similar to 10x.

10x are the ultimate driving putter and approach disc, especially into the winds. There are also softer versions of these, but they still maintain a pretty overstable flight. The 9x are a little less overstable and age into a slight turn over approach. The 11x and 12x try hard, but dont really compare.

Don't you love how the disc you want/need is always the disc you can't buy/find?

It is enough to make a guy crazy.

Whats the diff. between the 11x aviars, and the 12x aviars. I use some 11x's that I really like but they are now selling for $50.00, which is ridiculous and makes buying back-ups/ extra practice putters quite expensive. So I bought a few 12x's to use and I haven't really noticed much of a difference so far other than maybe the 12x's are a little slick. It is cold here in Ohio so that is probably masking any subtle differences. Did you change plastic suppliers, molds, or is it all in peoples heads? $50.00 is a lot of money for a putter.



The plastic supply did change for a while, but we got it back. Also, there have been some subtle variations in 11X runs too, not just 12X. None of the runs are identical due to the nature of the material. It is an extremely finicky material to run, and doesn't seem to run exactly the same way twice even if it is the same material out of the same batch. Sometimes the subtle variations are noticed; sometimes not.

Hi Dave,

I have 2 CE Firebirds that feel Identical but one has just an F and the other Has FX on the back. Is there any way that these are the same even thought they are marked differently. They have the same spotty Chrome/Blue/Pink/Gold Stamp. The F is Orange and the FX is a lighter green. I also have a Darker Green marked FX with a blue diamond holographic stamp. Is there any way you can tell me what runs these are from so I can find backups?


Thanks

JT



The Firebirds you have are probably identical and are the same as what we normally run. Originally, the Firebird was run in an L mold and was just marked with an F. Later, we differentiated with an FL. We also ran the current version as FX. Later, we just used F, for the X type and FL, for the L type and we have stayed with that for several years. So, if they look the same, they are both X molds.

This question is for anyone that can answer: I've seen two types of Pro Firebirds lately; one has the same text as the DX Firebird. Is there any difference between the two below (besides being tye dyed)
http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/ProductImages/profirebirdl.jpg
http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/productimages/dprofirebird174g.jpg

The one on top is made of pro plastic, like the pro wraith. The one on bottom is made of the old pro line plastic, more like champion.

edit: Also, I think the top Firebird is an FL mold, and the bottom is an F (or FX) mold.

great Q SERG... I was always curious of that myself.

and just to clarify... even though the one on the bottom is 'more like champion' its not the CE or candy stuff that some talk about right?

It is not CE, but it is almost exactly the same as Champion.

The dyed pro is the plastic that transitioned from CE to Champ. The pearly ones were my favorite FB of all time.

It has a little more durability than your average champion disc...

Keeps its line longer....some say....

I think if it feels like champion....it throws like champion.

The champion Firebird (fx mold of course) is, IMO, the most overstable firebird...

Especially the ones with the little Twisted Flyer logo in the middle....

Sick...

And this is compared to a brand new 2nd run FX 174...

The dyed pro is the plastic that transitioned from CE to Champ. The pearly ones were my favorite FB of all time.



agree

Has the Rancho Roc ever been run without the bead? How does or would this fly?