Hey Dave,
With David Wiggins Jr. winning another am world championship, are you guys going to put a picture or a blupb about him on the innova web page?

I guessed it was a rare occurrence but thought you might have had something specific in mind when you made the reference .

Hope you enjoy your week in Wi.

Hey Dave,

I picked up a couple of the new DX Big Bead Aviars from discgolfvalues.com a few months ago (glow plastic - from the Gentlemen's Club Classic). I like the feel of the new DX plastic, but found that these new Aviars are a little too domey for me (I'm used to putting with the flat 11x KC Aviars). I felt the same way about the 12x KC Aviars when they first came out...just a grip issue for me.

I heard there was a new run of the 12x that came out a little flatter, more like the 11x KC Aviars (which I hold so dear :) ). Can the same be said about any new runs of the DX Big Bead Aviars? Or could it just be the Glow plastic that caused them to be domey?

Thanks,

Rusty

We've ordered BB's twice now with our club stamp, not glow. All have been very flat.

I have a few non glo BB aviars from differwnt tourneys and the are all flat and pretty overstable much like KC aviars, just in dx

Sweet..thanks for the input guys! Guess I'll have to try a non-glow version...the big Play it Again Sports in Dallas is supposed to get some custom stamped BB's soon (they have an awesome stamp, by the way).

the destroyer is nice, i found it to be pretty straight stable, when i threw it flat it went straight and then faded, with a little anny it turned and slowly came back, it gives me more d, i finally got pin high on a hole thats always been just out of my range. worth a try for anyone that can already throw 375 or more.

Dave Do you think you guys will come out with something overstable like speed 12 and fade 5 in the near future?

ummmm....they just released the destroyer which is almost exactly what you're looking for..

try a gateway evolution spirit. the destroyers are very close to a seasoned spirit

Dave,

I'm trying to get some clarification on Starfires. I love the Pro Line Starfires, but I have some Starfires marked SF and others marked SL. Obviously there are SF and SL molds in Star and Champ (and even the SX), but in the Pro they are all marked Starfire on then front stamp. I have spent many trips to the store searching the backs of Pro Starfires for the SL marking, and I have had two marked SL that seemed to be less overstable than the SF models. I assumed for awhile that these were two different molds, but discussion with players and some information on the Innova site would suggest that all Pro Starfires are the SL mold, regardless of what is marked on the back.

Can you clarify this for me?

Is the Spirit the fastest disc that gateway makes???

Dave,

I'm trying to get some clarification on Starfires. I love the Pro Line Starfires, but I have some Starfires marked SF and others marked SL. Obviously there are SF and SL molds in Star and Champ (and even the SX), but in the Pro they are all marked Starfire on then front stamp. I have spent many trips to the store searching the backs of Pro Starfires for the SL marking, and I have had two marked SL that seemed to be less overstable than the SF models. I assumed for awhile that these were two different molds, but discussion with players and some information on the Innova site would suggest that all Pro Starfires are the SL mold, regardless of what is marked on the back.

Can you clarify this for me?


All Pro are SL
All Champ are SX
Star are classified by front stamps:
Star Starfire is SX
Star SL is SL

Is the Spirit the fastest disc that gateway makes???



I would say that and the speed demon. Illusion and Blurr are close. sorry for the gateway drift.

Dave
I noticed on the innova site, the star destroyer has the normal star plastic stamp. Do you know when those will be out? Also I can't remember, but are the champ destroyers only going to be a CFR disc?

All Pro are SL
All Champ are SX
Star are classified by front stamps:
Star Starfire is SX
Star SL is SL



I have some Champion SLs. They were CFR.

(I <heart> Ween)

Will the CFR program be picked this week since everyone was gone at worlds this past Tuesday?

Great times!! Congrats Val!! Your hard work paid off!!

[All Pro are SL
All Champ are SX
Star are classified by front stamps:
Star Starfire is SX
Star SL is SL



Thanks for the feedback. Any reason they marked some Pro Lines with the SF vs SL? Also interesting that all Champs are SX. Didn't they do a special run of Champ SX? I know that several websites were selling special runs that were specifically marked.

I have some Champion SLs. They were CFR.




And of course the first run Starfires (SF) that are not molded anymore. The flight was in between SL and SX. They came in champ glow.

Dave--are destroyers going to work and be made at 150ish? thanks

There are some CFR Champion SL

There are some CFR Champion SL



Yep, and they are wonderful.

why was the disc rejected? going to use the grounds for a special run of anything? dx tees?
also, are you going to do the cro in dx? it feels great, and flys in between my dx spiders and champ gators. actually, it flys alot like a dx gator and/or a star/champ spider. any chance of a star gator-x?



The disc was rejected because the nose apparently shrank too much and didn't pass the minimum requirement.
The regrind will be used generally. Not for anything specific. Yes, we will run DX Cro's. I believe we have already run Star or Champion Gator X's. We will probably do both, if we haven't already. No time frame yet.

And of course the first run Starfires (SF) that are not molded anymore. The flight was in between SL and SX. They came in champ glow.


The first run weren't glow. They were champ. They make the "record scratch" sound when you run the pad of your finger lightly across the top.

Hey Dave,
With David Wiggins Jr. winning another am world championship, are you guys going to put a picture or a blupb about him on the innova web page?



Don't know, but I think it's a good idea.

Dave Do you think you guys will come out with something overstable like speed 12 and fade 5 in the near future?



Probably not in the near future, but maybe next year.

They did CFR's that were SFX. CFR's r either SF, which was most of them. SL or SFX. The mass production of Champ Starfires were in the SFX mold. Pro's have SF on the bottom of most but they are the SL mold. The Star's r n the SL or Starefie mold. SL is like the Pro, Starfire is the SFX mold. Star Starfires r great discs the most consistent that I have thrown.

Dave
I noticed on the innova site, the star destroyer has the normal star plastic stamp. Do you know when those will be out? Also I can't remember, but are the champ destroyers only going to be a CFR disc?



I am not sure when the regular stamp will go out. It should immediately follow the Star Stamp release. It might already be out. I haven't been back to the office yet. We haven't made a final decision on the Champion Destroyers yet, as to whether they will be mainstream or CFR.

Dave--are destroyers going to work and be made at 150ish? thanks



I guess you mean work in DX? If so, I don't know yet. That is the only way we could get 150's, ish or not. The Star and Champion can only go down to 168gms, for a well molded disc. A little lighter for not so well molded discs.

I Found a totally clear Champion Starfire at Sport's Authority and it was marked Champ Starfire on the front and SSL on the back. By looking I can't tell if it is a SF, SL or other. Anyone know what's up with that?

I believe they just did a champion mold of a gator x. They sold them at discgolfvalues.com with the 07 worlds stamp on them. I picked one up and it is quite a bit more stable than the old first run gators I have. I really like it. However, it looks like they ran out about 2 weeks ago.

I Found a totally clear Champion Starfire at Sport's Authority and it was marked Champ Starfire on the front and SSL on the back. By looking I can't tell if it is a SF, SL or other. Anyone know what's up with that?



If it's wing is flat like a TL, it's an SL. If it's got a concave part on the wing (like a Teebird), it's an SX. The SX is pretty similar in it's wing shape to the Orc, so that's a pretty good comparison.

Dave,

Do you know how many Destroyers were made with the Proto Star stamp?

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave,

I'm trying to get some clarification on Starfires. I love the Pro Line Starfires, but I have some Starfires marked SF and others marked SL. Obviously there are SF and SL molds in Star and Champ (and even the SX), but in the Pro they are all marked Starfire on then front stamp. I have spent many trips to the store searching the backs of Pro Starfires for the SL marking, and I have had two marked SL that seemed to be less overstable than the SF models. I assumed for awhile that these were two different molds, but discussion with players and some information on the Innova site would suggest that all Pro Starfires are the SL mold, regardless of what is marked on the back.

Can you clarify this for me?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


All Pro are SL
All Champ are SX
Star are classified by front stamps:
Star Starfire is SX
Star SL is SL



The reality of the situation is that there are 3 different versions of the Starfire mold. The original, the L and the X. The original mold (http://sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=825) was used exclusively as part of the CFR program and was short lived as it evolved into the SL mold fairly quickly, which also for a short time was part of the CFR program. In fact I remember getting CFR Starfires for the Sarasota tournaments a couple years ago and receiving half in one mold and half in the other. Last to arrive was the X mold which I believe debuted at the USDGC in 2004 and had a cool "flaming" Star Stamp. The stock Champion and Star Starfires use the X mold, the Pro Starfire and Star SL use the L. The Champion SL (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=968) still exists as a custom/CFR disc only.

Dave,

Do you know how many Destroyers were made with the Proto Star stamp?



No, but I would guess 4 or 5 thousand.

Hi Dave,

How about a Star Wolf for us weenie arms who like turnover mids? Pretty please? It could be the 2008 Tour de Rizbee CFR disc!!!!!

Hi Dave, I am loving the cro, any idea when the DX will hit the shelves? thanks again

I throw some pro plastic discs, but when I look at the discs in the champion or star line plastic, the disc seems to be a little bit smaller. I throw the pro orc and pro firebird, and both of them seem to be like 21.1 or 21.0 cm, why is this?

Hi Dave, I am loving the cro, any idea when the DX will hit the shelves? thanks again



Probably in about a month or so, but it might be delayed by scheduling.

I throw some pro plastic discs, but when I look at the discs in the champion or star line plastic, the disc seems to be a little bit smaller. I throw the pro orc and pro firebird, and both of them seem to be like 21.1 or 21.0 cm, why is this?



All discs vary by size and weight. Some discs and plastics vary more than others. The same model, in the same plastic, at the same weight can vary a bit. Different ambient temperatures at different times of day, with different color additives can make a difference. Probably the worst plastic for this variation is very light weight DX.

are there any discs going out of production soon?

hey Dave I recently jumped into a pond at the local course and I found a champion teebird and the stamp looks normal like a current disc but the mold is TL and it even says TL on the bottom I've never seen one like this so I was hoping you might know something? Just wondering if it is rare or what.

The TL is the brother of the reliable TeeBird. The �L� stands for �Less Overstable� and �Longer�. This disc has the same great speed and glide as the TeeBird, but is straighter flying with less fade at the end of the flight. If you are looking for a straight flying maximum fairway driver in Pro-line Plastic, the TL is the answer. Check out the web site for more

are there any discs going out of production soon?



We evaluate discs at the end of the year. We will make the decision then.

hey Dave I recently jumped into a pond at the local course and I found a champion teebird and the stamp looks normal like a current disc but the mold is TL and it even says TL on the bottom I've never seen one like this so I was hoping you might know something? Just wondering if it is rare or what.



I don't know anything about it. Probably a misstamp.

The TL is the brother of the reliable TeeBird. The �L� stands for �Less Overstable� and �Longer�. This disc has the same great speed and glide as the TeeBird, but is straighter flying with less fade at the end of the flight. If you are looking for a straight flying maximum fairway driver in Pro-line Plastic, the TL is the answer. Check out the web site for more



TL's are available in Star plastic (http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/startl.html) even thought the "About the TL" section on Innova's webpage that you quoted above refers to TL's in Pro plastic.

Dave,
You said there was 4,000 - 5,000 star stamped destroyers made, How many star stamped Teerex were made? Thanks

hey Dave I recently jumped into a pond at the local course and I found a champion teebird and the stamp looks normal like a current disc but the mold is TL and it even says TL on the bottom I've never seen one like this so I was hoping you might know something? Just wondering if it is rare or what.



I don't know anything about it. Probably a misstamp.



I have also seen a 'Champion Teebird' stamped TL. Probably rare.

There were Champ TLs before they went into CFR...as I had won a CTP last year and received an older World's Biggest 'Champ TL' which I had thought might be CE, but was told here that it was early Champion.

Right, the same or similar run was stamped with the small swoosh. Inside the swoosh it read "CE TL" even tho it was not CE, it was Champion plastic.
I've seen some other crazy stamps on those.

Right, the same or similar run was stamped with the small swoosh. Inside the swoosh it read "CE TL" even tho it was not CE, it was Champion plastic.




These TL's were from the final run of CE material. They were mostly orange and pink. This was still considered CE plastic at that time and most of the CE discs from the final months were clear and translucent and resembled the Champion plastic we know today. After Innova discontuned CE plastic, there were several months (2-4?) before Champion plastic came about. In the interim Innova was offering Pro Line and Pro Line Candy (which were made with a Champion-like material) discs. This short timeframe is where we get the Pro Line Beast, Pro Line Firebird, Pro Line Monster, etc. that were made with Champion plastic. Because of the mass confusion that followed, Innova did away with the Pro Line Candy product line and it became, simply enough, Champion plastic. So technically they are CE plastic, but chemically they seem closer to today's Champion material.

Dave- I love KC Aviars, but I don't really love them until a month or 2 of throwing and wearing them in, and they are still nice and overstable at that point. But I really really love the KC Aviar after 6-9 months when the bead starts to wear off, giving them a super straight flight with a hint of overstableness. I also carry small beads for anhyzers.
Have you ever thought about making a medium bead aviar? Just shave some of the bead off the driver mold? That would be sweet, especially in KC or hard dx.

Dave- I love KC Aviars, but I don't really love them until a month or 2 of throwing and wearing them in, and they are still nice and overstable at that point. But I really really love the KC Aviar after 6-9 months when the bead starts to wear off, giving them a super straight flight with a hint of overstableness. I also carry small beads for anhyzers.
Have you ever thought about making a medium bead aviar? Just shave some of the bead off the driver mold? That would be sweet, especially in KC or hard dx.



We do make an in-betweener. It's the P-2 for Discmania. I think the first run was a little soft, but subsequent runs might be suitable for what you want. It would have made it into my bag, except for the plastic, so I will be looking to improve the plastic to be something like the new big bead Aviars.

Dave- I love KC Aviars, but I don't really love them until a month or 2 of throwing and wearing them in, and they are still nice and overstable at that point. But I really really love the KC Aviar after 6-9 months when the bead starts to wear off, giving them a super straight flight with a hint of overstableness. I also carry small beads for anhyzers.
Have you ever thought about making a medium bead aviar? Just shave some of the bead off the driver mold? That would be sweet, especially in KC or hard dx.



We do make an in-betweener. It's the P-2 for Discmania. I think the first run was a little soft, but subsequent runs might be suitable for what you want. It would have made it into my bag, except for the plastic, so I will be looking to improve the plastic to be something like the new big bead Aviars.



Alright, I will have to check those out. I don't like soft plastic, so I may have that same problem. Are they run in the S (star)?

Hi Dave,

How about a Star Wolf for us weenie arms who like turnover mids? Pretty please? It could be the 2008 Tour de Rizbee CFR disc!!!!!


-bump-

Probably just an oversight....

Dave- I love KC Aviars, but I don't really love them until a month or 2 of throwing and wearing them in, and they are still nice and overstable at that point. But I really really love the KC Aviar after 6-9 months when the bead starts to wear off, giving them a super straight flight with a hint of overstableness. I also carry small beads for anhyzers.
Have you ever thought about making a medium bead aviar? Just shave some of the bead off the driver mold? That would be sweet, especially in KC or hard dx.



We do make an in-betweener. It's the P-2 for Discmania. I think the first run was a little soft, but subsequent runs might be suitable for what you want. It would have made it into my bag, except for the plastic, so I will be looking to improve the plastic to be something like the new big bead Aviars.



Alright, I will have to check those out. I don't like soft plastic, so I may have that same problem. Are they run in the S (star)?



Yes. I haven't tried the Star version. I am waiting for the stiffer, grippy D version. Currently, I am using a P&A & BB for most short stuff. The P&A doesn't stand up well in wind as an approach disc, after it starts to get abused, but works for me as a putter. The BB stands up well, but is too overstable for my putting style. I think the P2 will be the best of both worlds for my needs. Time will tell.

Hi Dave,

How about a Star Wolf for us weenie arms who like turnover mids? Pretty please? It could be the 2008 Tour de Rizbee CFR disc!!!!!


-bump-

Probably just an oversight....



Sorry, I thought it was a rhetorical wish. I have tried Star Wolf's when they first came out. They didn't work well as a turnover disc so they weren't produced. If we could produce domey Star Wolf's, we might have something. I am not holding my breath however.

Dave, I have been looking for the P-2 at DGvalues for several months since you said something about liking it for a tweener putter. Now I see you talk of it again. Is the P-2 a production item? Sounds like a great disc in stiff DX BB plastic. Thanks

Wait...so...DiscMania is made by Innova????

innova helps them design and mold them

dave,
i was wondering if zephyr's are available for hot stamping?
thanks
jmart

dave,
i was wondering if zephyr's are available for hot stamping?
thanks
jmart



Only premium Zephyrs. 140 gms

Hey Dave saw Mitch wearing the new Climo hat today, any other new apeareal coming out?

dave,
i was wondering if zephyr's are available for hot stamping?
thanks
jmart



Only premium Zephyrs. 140 gms



how would those be for MTA Dave?

Hey Dave saw Mitch wearing the new Climo hat today, any other new apeareal coming out?



Sorry, I don't know anything specific about the apparel.

dave,
i was wondering if zephyr's are available for hot stamping?
thanks
jmart



Only premium Zephyrs. 140 gms



how would those be for MTA Dave?



As far as I know, they're nothing special. Accuracy and discothon are the areas they are used.

What is discothon?

http://www.wfdf.org/index.php?page=rules/art5.htm

Dave, I'd like to get an EDGE Shark for my little girl. Are they sold to the public or are they only available through EDGE?

Dave, I'd like to get an EDGE Shark for my little girl. Are they sold to the public or are they only available through EDGE?



Zonedriven (http://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/index.php?p=catalog&parent=9&pg=1) has some.

Dave, how is the Cro comparable to the Gremlin? Thanks in advance...

Just a Quick Thank You Dave for creating the Destroyer !!!!

I like Both the Champion version and the Star Version !!!!!!

Donny Olow :D

Dave, I have been looking for the P-2 at DGvalues for several months since you said something about liking it for a tweener putter. Now I see you talk of it again. Is the P-2 a production item? Sounds like a great disc in stiff DX BB plastic. Thanks



P-2 is truly an awesome putter! It�s quite stiff and sticky and very reliable in wind. I�ve been using it now about a month, and my putting has become much better, especially in wind.

I�m waiting d-version for approaching...

Dave, how is the Cro comparable to the Gremlin? Thanks in advance...



The Gremlin feels and throws like a driver. The Cro feels and throws like a mid range. Gremlin is faster too.

Hey Dave my friend asked a good question he doesnt throw starfires, tee rexs, wraiths, etc... he is wants a faster understable disc to throw, how come you dont cater to that crowd??

Get a Pro Wraith (or Pro Starfire) ... throw it for a month or two ... there ya go!

Hey Dave my friend asked a good question he doesnt throw starfires, tee rexs, wraiths, etc... he is wants a faster understable disc to throw, how come you dont cater to that crowd??

It's difficult to make a fast driver that will be understable for a range of velocities. The faster you make a disc, the more weight sits on the outer rim of the disc and the more overstable the disc will act at low speeds (gyroscopic). The Beast and (beat) Pro Wraith are both understable at high speeds but as these discs slow down they hyzer out dramatically (big S-curves). I think the Rogue is the fastest driver that holds an understable line for a long time, even in pretty new plastic. The rogue turns slowly for a while before fading out. Really, this is the reason why the Pro Wraith is one of my favorite discs, I can throw anhyzer lines over far objects and still keep the nose down. You can also try throwing LIGHTER WEIGHT plastic or opening up the wrist to help keep the nose down.

Hey Dave my friend asked a good question he doesnt throw starfires, tee rexs, wraiths, etc... he is wants a faster understable disc to throw, how come you dont cater to that crowd??



That's a good question and Boneman has one good answer. Another answer is the difficulty of making unstable discs that work. Another possibility for now, is beating a DX Wraith or TeeRex. Another possibility that I am working on is a controlled turning speed 11. That might take a while to get it right.

how close are we to dx cros? thx again. also--do you purposely make some dx doscs start out more overstable than their champ counterparts? this was true of the old mold dx beasts as well as the current wraiths. just wondering if that was intentional or it just happens that way. love the dx wraith

how close are we to dx cros? thx again. also--do you purposely make some dx doscs start out more overstable than their champ counterparts? this was true of the old mold dx beasts as well as the current wraiths. just wondering if that was intentional or it just happens that way. love the dx wraith



We have already made about half of what we need to release it generally. If we are able to, we will start to finish the run next week. If not, we may be able to release what we have for a special edition. I have been testing the DX, but haven't put enough beat on it yet to say anything other than it's still the same as the Star.

Yes, we try to make the DX start out more overstable as it wears more quickly.

I was given a 1992 World's Biggest Disc and I was wondering what kind of disc it is. All I know is that it was made by Innova. Thanks.

I was given a 1992 World's Biggest Disc and I was wondering what kind of disc it is. All I know is that it was made by Innova. Thanks.



It could have been one of several produced that year. I would need more information and perhaps a picture to identify it.

I will try and get a picture but in the meantime it is a large disc 22.7cm in diameter if that helps. thanks

I will try and get a picture but in the meantime it is a large disc 22.7cm in diameter if that helps. thanks



That narrows it down to two discs. If it says Ontario on the bottom, it is a Barracuda. Otherwise, it is a Scorpion. No picture necessary.

tokyo,
have your friend try and SRP inferno.

Dave you guys need to make more Champion discs with the champion stamp on them like the new Destroyers. Thats looks sweet on the champion plastic.

Dave,

Has the blend for champion plastic changed any? I was at my local store and there were lots of opaque Orcs and Teebirds that have more grip. They are also easier to grip with the sweaty hands of summer. I really like it. Thanks in advance

I think the opaque Champs are the ones with the weight additive in them.

The opaque champion plastic like in the TeeBirds has a weighting agent added that I assume adds to the density of the plastic so it's easier to mold more consistently in heavy weights. The champion destroyers (like the gummy champion discs) are made with a lower density champion plastic to fill the larger volume mold. The TeeRex-X and Wraith-X that were sold CFR were a blend of champion plastics which made them look a little swirly instead of glass-like transparent (light bends as it travels through materials with different densities)

Dave,
Were you able to mold the Starfire X's in DX yet?

Dave,

Has the blend for champion plastic changed any? I was at my local store and there were lots of opaque Orcs and Teebirds that have more grip. They are also easier to grip with the sweaty hands of summer. I really like it. Thanks in advance



We do have a new blend of Champion, which seems a little grippier than in the past, but the opacity is mostly caused by a weighting agent in the heavier discs. There is also a demolding additive that can cause a cloudy appearance.

Dave,
Were you able to mold the Starfire X's in DX yet?



No. We haven't gotten to the Starfires yet. We have completed the SLs only.

We do have a new blend of Champion, which seems a little grippier than in the past, but the opacity is mostly caused by a weighting agent in the heavier discs. There is also a demolding additive that can cause a cloudy appearance.



Dave,
The batch of Millennium OLFs. Some were a milky, cloudy white while others were orange and yellow. The milky ones seemed (to me) to be grippier. Does that have something to do with the additive you described?
Thanks.

you made SL's in dx?! awesome

Dave,
What is your take on the Gateway/Quest Dimple Technology and, now, the Discraft Cross-hatching that is being molded into the discs?
Thanks,
Colin

What is this Cross Hatching that you are referring to?

crosshatching (http://www.discraft.com/news_0707_ar.html)

But how does it affect the disc? More glide, less drag? More stability, or less?

On a golf ball the dimples make the disc fly straighter right?

I believe it makes a more stable disc less stable because the dimples add glide. I think the dimples trap air causing the increase in glide making it less stable and causing less drag.

Dave,
Whats the word on this black KC Pro Aviar? I have seen some 150 class Roc's, but never an Aviar and at max weight. Also this is a 12X, so is this somthing we will see more of?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...A:IT&ih=009 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190142149963&ssPa geName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009)

Hi Dave,
I got a new Star Cro at Pro Worlds. Thank you. On the bottom with the weight it is marked "SP". Can you please give us an insight on this code? I remember the HOB last year on the Skeeters.
Thanks,
Axis

they probably accidently marked it as a spider.

Almost all of them I have seen have SP written on them as well so its nothing special.

bump

Dave,
What is your take on the Gateway/Quest Dimple Technology and, now, the Discraft Cross-hatching that is being molded into the discs?
Thanks,
Colin

I have one of the CE "Black Widow" Spiders and I have another on the way. My question is do they all have the hourglass in the middle?

We do have a new blend of Champion, which seems a little grippier than in the past, but the opacity is mostly caused by a weighting agent in the heavier discs. There is also a demolding additive that can cause a cloudy appearance.



Dave,
The batch of Millennium OLFs. Some were a milky, cloudy white while others were orange and yellow. The milky ones seemed (to me) to be grippier. Does that have something to do with the additive you described?
Thanks.



The weighting agent might add some grip, be the demolding agent wouldn't.

you made SL's in dx?! awesome



I only meant the molding, not the DX plastic. We did not run DX SLs.

Dave,
What is your take on the Gateway/Quest Dimple Technology and, now, the Discraft Cross-hatching that is being molded into the discs?
Thanks,
Colin



I have no opinion one way or the other as I have not checked any of it out as yet. I don't know what they are trying to accomplish with the texture, but just offhand it seems like it would help to turn the disc over at high speeds.

Dave,
Whats the word on this black KC Pro Aviar? I have seen some 150 class Roc's, but never an Aviar and at max weight. Also this is a 12X, so is this somthing we will see more of?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...A:IT&ih=009 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190142149963&ssPa geName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009)



Occasionally we run KCs in a color or two. This is one of those times. The feedback I have gotten so far indicated they came out a little flat. It is a 12X and we will run colors once in a while.

Hi Dave,
I got a new Star Cro at Pro Worlds. Thank you. On the bottom with the weight it is marked "SP". Can you please give us an insight on this code? I remember the HOB last year on the Skeeters.
Thanks,
Axis



It was an accidental mismark on the very first Cros. About 2000.

I have one of the CE "Black Widow" Spiders and I have another on the way. My question is do they all have the hourglass in the middle?



I don't know what a Black Widow Spider is, but it sounds like a color variation.

Dave -the dimples seem to create some friction, thus allowing the disc to glide longer. the texture on the upper and lower wing seems to add a little speed. I like to throw dx plastic as rougher surface seems to give a straighter flight with a less dramatic fade generally. I assume these new technologies are trying to take this effect to the next level. while i agree it works to a certain extent, it is not a super-dramatic effect, but something worth exploring, in my opinion. thanks agin, and looking forward to the DX cro

Actually, it adds quite a bit more speed. It also adds distance to those who are distance challenged or new to the game. IMO, they dont do that much for a player that can hit 400ft or more, but for those that cant the excelerator does work.

I got to feel one of the new black KC Aviars and it felt really great. It was firm in the hand (not quite as firm as standard KC aviar plastic) so it wouldn't flex even with a hard snap, but the texture was velvety instead of smooth. It felt like it was nicely broken-in right out of the box. so nice!

I've got one on the way. I can't wait to put it in the bag

Regarding dimples on a disc- it would seem to me that the dimple would affect the laminar flow of air at the surface of the disc. It would seem to be introducing more turbulence, similar to a rougher surface, and thus lead to more instability. But I'm really not sure, so I'd like to hear from someone with more expertise.

I'm not sure, but I think that the dimples on a golf ball are to add consistency to shots. I think that a smooth ball would get out of control more easily, but that may be wrong.

If dimples do add consistency to a golf ball, will they also add consistency to a golf disc? If so, do you sacrifice any distance? If the air flow is more turbulent at the surface of the disc, then that would seem to increase drag and thus decrease distance.

If dimples do add consistency to a golf ball, will they also add consistency to a golf disc? If so, do you sacrifice any distance? If the air flow is more turbulent at the surface of the disc, then that would seem to increase drag and thus decrease distance.

From my experience, I have found this to be true. Dimpled discs make more noise as they travel through the air and from what I can tell this indicates higher drag. I think it's been said that the dimples add glide or maybe help the disc turn so that lower power players can throw further. I have not been able to throw dimpled discs as far as non-dimpled discs, but this is just my experience with them.

Check the Wikipedia info on turbulence. Make sure to check out the second bullet in the Examples of Turbulence on golf balls and dimples.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbulence

Roughening a surface will create turbulent flow at lower speeds which can sometimes reduce drag overall depending on the configuration of the object.

Dimples don't add consistency to golf balls, they add distance.

The dimples create a thin turbulent layer around the ball. This turbulent layer allows the airflow to follow the surface of the ball further toward the back of the ball. By doing this, the wake behind the ball gets smaller, resulting in less total drag.

The best illustrations of this I could find are:
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentoring/project_ideas/Sports_p012.shtml

http://www.fi.edu/wright/again/wings.avkids.com/wings.avkids.com/Book/Sports/instructor/golf-01.html

Regarding dimples on a disc- it would seem to me that the dimple would affect the laminar flow of air at the surface of the disc. It would seem to be introducing more turbulence, similar to a rougher surface, and thus lead to more instability. But I'm really not sure, so I'd like to hear from someone with more expertise.

I'm not sure, but I think that the dimples on a golf ball are to add consistency to shots. I think that a smooth ball would get out of control more easily, but that may be wrong.

If dimples do add consistency to a golf ball, will they also add consistency to a golf disc? If so, do you sacrifice any distance? If the air flow is more turbulent at the surface of the disc, then that would seem to increase drag and thus decrease distance.



Dimples on a golf ball are completely different than dimples on a disc. A sphere (ball) is the most aerodynamically inefficient shape possible, as far as I know. A tear drop shape, with the same cross sectional area as a sphere, but with the added cone-like shape, reduces drag by a factor of nine.

Dimples deflect air, traveling around the sides of the ball, away from the surface, and allow the airflow to relaminate behind the ball, instead of tumbling and producing a partial vacuum. In other words, the dimples help to produce the effect of a teardrop shape, but not as efficiently.

A disc is a naturally aerodynamically efficient shape, except for the turbulent bottom area, so it should not benefit from this dimpling.

Dimples make the disc look cool. Isn't that enough? :D

Dimples on a golf ball are completely different than dimples on a disc. A sphere (ball) is the most aerodynamically inefficient shape possible, as far as I know. A tear drop shape, with the same cross sectional area as a sphere, but with the added cone-like shape, reduces drag by a factor of nine.

Dimples deflect air, traveling around the sides of the ball, away from the surface, and allow the airflow to relaminate behind the ball, instead of tumbling and producing a partial vacuum. In other words, the dimples help to produce the effect of a teardrop shape, but not as efficiently.



Dave,

Thanks. I thought you'd probably know about this. I'm curious-- so do the dimples on a golf ball add consistency, length, or both?

Lowe

Thanks, Chuck. A very informative article. So on a golf ball the lower form drag caused by the dimples increases the distance it'll go, and doesn't relate to consistency.

Golf balls used to be perfectly round until golfers started noticing that gouges in the ball made it fly farther, then came the dimples.

Dimples on a golf ball are completely different than dimples on a disc. A sphere (ball) is the most aerodynamically inefficient shape possible, as far as I know. A tear drop shape, with the same cross sectional area as a sphere, but with the added cone-like shape, reduces drag by a factor of nine.

Dimples deflect air, traveling around the sides of the ball, away from the surface, and allow the airflow to relaminate behind the ball, instead of tumbling and producing a partial vacuum. In other words, the dimples help to produce the effect of a teardrop shape, but not as efficiently.



Dave,

Thanks. I thought you'd probably know about this. I'm curious-- so do the dimples on a golf ball add consistency, length, or both?

Lowe



They primarily add length, but I imagine they also help with the Bernoulli effect.

Oh, of course! the Bernoulli effect! how could we all forget that?

Bernoulli & Reynolds. Fabulous doubles team! :D

Dave,
Whats the word on this black KC Pro Aviar? I have seen some 150 class Roc's, but never an Aviar and at max weight. Also this is a 12X, so is this somthing we will see more of?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...A:IT&ih=009 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190142149963&ssPa geName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009)



Occasionally we run KCs in a color or two. This is one of those times. The feedback I have gotten so far indicated they came out a little flat. It is a 12X and we will run colors once in a while.



Any numbers? Just curious if they are worth anything. I am figuring they would be on the stiff side and i love the flat tops like the older 10X. Thanks for the reply.

Regarding dimples on a disc- it would seem to me that the dimple would affect the laminar flow of air at the surface of the disc. It would seem to be introducing more turbulence, similar to a rougher surface, and thus lead to more instability. But I'm really not sure, so I'd like to hear from someone with more expertise.

I'm not sure, but I think that the dimples on a golf ball are to add consistency to shots. I think that a smooth ball would get out of control more easily, but that may be wrong.

If dimples do add consistency to a golf ball, will they also add consistency to a golf disc? If so, do you sacrifice any distance? If the air flow is more turbulent at the surface of the disc, then that would seem to increase drag and thus decrease distance.



Dimples on a golf ball are completely different than dimples on a disc. A sphere (ball) is the most aerodynamically inefficient shape possible, as far as I know. A tear drop shape, with the same cross sectional area as a sphere, but with the added cone-like shape, reduces drag by a factor of nine.

Dimples deflect air, traveling around the sides of the ball, away from the surface, and allow the airflow to relaminate behind the ball, instead of tumbling and producing a partial vacuum. In other words, the dimples help to produce the effect of a teardrop shape, but not as efficiently.

A disc is a naturally aerodynamically efficient shape, except for the turbulent bottom area, so it should not benefit from this dimpling.



Quoted from: http://www.fi.edu/wright/again/wings.avkids.com/wings.avkids.com/Book/Sports/instructor/golf-01.html

Lift is another aerodynamic force which affects the flight of a golf ball. This idea might sound a little odd, but given the proper spin a golf ball can produce lift. Originally, golfers thought that all spin was detrimental. However, in 1877, British scientist P.G. Tait learned that a ball, driven with a spin about a horizontal axis with the top of the ball coming toward the golfer produces a lifting force. This type of spin is know as a backspin.

The backspin increases the speed on the upper surface of the ball while decreasing the speed on the lower surface. From the Bernoulli principle, when the velocity increases the pressure decreases. Therefore, the pressure on the upper surface is less than the pressure on the lower surface of the ball. This pressure differential results in a finite lift being applied to the ball.

In my interpretation of the above paragraphs, a dimpled top with some sort of threaded (as in screw) type design to the bottom of the rim that would play against the spin would create the ideal disc. :confused:

Sorry I just re-read that and it hit me. "Horizontal Spin"
related to a disc thrown right hand back hand would result in the dimples on the right side of the disc increasing the speed while the dimples on the left side would decrease it resulting in an understable disc regardless of location of dimples from top to bottom.

Dave,
Whats the word on this black KC Pro Aviar? I have seen some 150 class Roc's, but never an Aviar and at max weight. Also this is a 12X, so is this somthing we will see more of?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...A:IT&ih=009 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190142149963&ssPa geName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009)



Occasionally we run KCs in a color or two. This is one of those times. The feedback I have gotten so far indicated they came out a little flat. It is a 12X and we will run colors once in a while.



Any numbers? Just curious if they are worth anything. I am figuring they would be on the stiff side and i love the flat tops like the older 10X. Thanks for the reply.



Sorry, I don't know the numbers. They were few compared to white.

Bernoulli & Reynolds. Fabulous doubles team! :D



Bernoulli & Magnus now. Reynolds was just a number.

Dave:

I was told you'd be running the next batch of Star Destroyers this Wednesday. Is this true, and if so, how many are being run? It seems like the proto stamp ones came and went super fast.

Thanks! -Brandon

Dave:

I was told you'd be running the next batch of Star Destroyers this Wednesday. Is this true, and if so, how many are being run? It seems like the proto stamp ones came and went super fast.

Thanks! -Brandon



Maybe the new regular stamp is being released but the Star Destroyer has been running for several weeks now, with the exception of a small Champion batch.

Hi Mr. Dunipace. Thanks for taking time to answer everyone's questions.

I have a question about Eagles, forgive me if it's been asked before. I looked at some new Champion Eagles the other day and, to my surprise, they were apparantly the Eagle L mold. They were marked as "E" on the bottom. I looked at a new dx Eagle and it seemed to be the L mold also.

Are these EL? Are all Champion and dx Eagles made in the "L" mold now? Are ELs made in Star?

Thanks

whille the destroyers are running, will you be trying dx, specifically in lower weights?--thanks again

Hi Mr. Dunipace. Thanks for taking time to answer everyone's questions.

I have a question about Eagles, forgive me if it's been asked before. I looked at some new Champion Eagles the other day and, to my surprise, they were apparantly the Eagle L mold. They were marked as "E" on the bottom. I looked at a new dx Eagle and it seemed to be the L mold also.

Are these EL? Are all Champion and dx Eagles made in the "L" mold now? Are ELs made in Star?

Thanks



We did the Eagles opposite of what we have done with other models. The Star was the X version and the other two were the normal L version.

whille the destroyers are running, will you be trying dx, specifically in lower weights?--thanks again



We will try it, but I don't have much confidence.

Is there a chance the DX line will switch back to the EX mold? T'was a great disc.

Is there a chance the DX line will switch back to the EX mold? T'was a great disc.



It's possible for a short run, but the regular Eagle L is easier to mold right. The X version was a lot more hit and miss. The Champion Eagle X will be back from time to time. It runs just as well as the L.

Dave [or anyone else], have you noticed any difference in the flights of the star destroyers with a lot of dome vs. those w/o much dome? i have a couple blue 168 that are domey and some 171 yellow that are much flatter. how would you expect these to differ, flight-wise? thanks

I believe domier discs are less stable and have more glide. Vice versa with flatter discs.

Dave [or anyone else], have you noticed any difference in the flights of the star destroyers with a lot of dome vs. those w/o much dome? i have a couple blue 168 that are domey and some 171 yellow that are much flatter. how would you expect these to differ, flight-wise? thanks




I have a poppy topped White 175g. that is the most overstable disc in my bag. I can flip it, but only for a limited time.

Dave [or anyone else], have you noticed any difference in the flights of the star destroyers with a lot of dome vs. those w/o much dome? i have a couple blue 168 that are domey and some 171 yellow that are much flatter. how would you expect these to differ, flight-wise? thanks



With a higher dome, I would expect more glide. Stability, is a separate, but related issue. Usually a domey disc is less low speed overstable and less high speed stable. Sometimes the high speed stability is the same or more. Rarely does a domey disc have more low speed overstability, but it can happen. It's all dependent on how the disc got domey.

To answer the question more directly: Have I seen a difference? No. I have been told that the Star Destroyers are less low speed overstable and maybe less high speed stable than the Champions, but I haven't seen that personally. On the other hand, I haven't thrown any Champions over 169 gms. I have thrown the Stars from 167-175. I have also seen my friends throw max weight Stars like Rocs. They are both able to throw fast and pull the nose over. I would expect your 168 gm blue domey Stars to go a long way if you can pull the nose down.

Dave,
Has there been a decision made yet on wether the champion destroyers will stay a CFR or go into regular production?

(please say regular production)

Dave,
Has there been a decision made yet on whether the champion destroyers will stay a CFR or go into regular production?

(please say regular production)



The Champion Destroyers will stay in CFR for now.

From the NEFA Board:

results are in, and the results are quite interesting indeed. I used a scale accurate to 1/100th of a gram.

Results:

175 *Destroyer is really 177.4
170 *Destroyer is really 171.2
166 *Wraith is really 168.6
170 champ Starfire is really 171.1

These are all brand spankin new or like new, and would only get lighter as they hit things and nicks appear.

What is the weight supposed to be accurate to? This is significant IMO. They are ALL heavier then what they are marked.

i just got some "170" star tees and they were all 172.5ish....

From the NEFA Board:

results are in, and the results are quite interesting indeed. I used a scale accurate to 1/100th of a gram.

Results:

175 *Destroyer is really 177.4
170 *Destroyer is really 171.2
166 *Wraith is really 168.6
170 champ Starfire is really 171.1

These are all brand spankin new or like new, and would only get lighter as they hit things and nicks appear.

What is the weight supposed to be accurate to? This is significant IMO. They are ALL heavier then what they are marked.



I think it is significant too as it comes from three different scales from three different machines. DX discs might get slightly lighter as they are beat up and lose plastic, but Star and Champion discs can gain weight after they are weighed. The plastic is hygroscopic, which means it can absorb a certain amount of water. I didn't think this would amount to more than a gram, but it seems it might be as much as 2 to 3 gms. I don't know if it is dependent on temperature along with humidity, or just humidity.

what is a "special blend" wraith? thx

what is a "special blend" wraith? thx



I don't think I know. What context did you get that from? We use the phrase "special blend" for short experimental runs, but I don't recall any with the Wraith.

its the full color ken climo wraith that reads SB.

on the cfr page of the innova site. it says it is made in a prototype plastic

Dave [or anyone else], have you noticed any difference in the flights of the star destroyers with a lot of dome vs. those w/o much dome? i have a couple blue 168 that are domey and some 171 yellow that are much flatter. how would you expect these to differ, flight-wise? thanks



With a higher dome, I would expect more glide. Stability, is a separate, but related issue. Usually a domey disc is less low speed overstable and less high speed stable. Sometimes the high speed stability is the same or more. Rarely does a domey disc have more low speed overstability, but it can happen. It's all dependent on how the disc got domey.

To answer the question more directly: Have I seen a difference? No. I have been told that the Star Destroyers are less low speed overstable and maybe less high speed stable than the Champions, but I haven't seen that personally. On the other hand, I haven't thrown any Champions over 169 gms. I have thrown the Stars from 167-175. I have also seen my friends throw max weight Stars like Rocs. They are both able to throw fast and pull the nose over. I would expect your 168 gm blue domey Stars to go a long way if you can pull the nose down.


Recently on a long dead straight hole through some thick woods, with fade at 350 feet I started throwing my Destroyer in the same manner as my TL. Its one of the Sunrise Classic (or whatever it is, wiped the stamp off) ones. Flips so easy. I just throw it with the same snap and arm speed as my TL, it goes about 350-360 dead straight on a low line before falling off. Not really how you'd throw it for big-d, but it has perfect high-speed stability for that sort of throw.

what is a "special blend" wraith? thx



I don't think I know. What context did you get that from? We use the phrase "special blend" for short experimental runs, but I don't recall any with the Wraith.




The Augusta Worlds fundraisers were designated with a SB WR on the back.

what is a "special blend" wraith? thx



I don't think I know. What context did you get that from? We use the phrase "special blend" for short experimental runs, but I don't recall any with the Wraith.



The only time I have seen it is on the SB Wraiths that had Climo's picture on it with his autograph that were sold at AM Worlds in Tulsa. And they said 11x and moths later won his 12th.

Dave or anyone else in the know.....I recently ran into a ring of rocs stamped roc that only has 12 rocs stamped on it instead of the customary 18 on the champion and the flat top.....any history on this? Is it newer or older than the stamp I am used to?

Thanks
Scott

what is a "special blend" wraith? thx



I don't think I know. What context did you get that from? We use the phrase "special blend" for short experimental runs, but I don't recall any with the Wraith.



The only time I have seen it is on the SB Wraiths that had Climo's picture on it with his autograph that were sold at AM Worlds in Tulsa. And they said 11x and moths later won his 12th.



I have been told that the SB WR was put on the proto Star run of Wraiths. I don't recall this myself, but it makes sense.

on the current CFR list they are called SB Wraiths...

The twc cfr are SB wraith.....So they are proto star wraiths?
who wants some?

The twc cfr are SB wraith.....So they are proto star wraiths?
who wants some?



Yes, they are proto if they say SB.

Hi Dave, When do you think the standard star stamp Destroyers will hit retailers?

Dave,
Just got a black 12x KC Aviar. This thing feels sweet. I'm glad its nice and flat. Are the white ones like this. I think someone put it as a "velvety" feel. Also, are the black aviars going to be a regular or special thing? thanks in advance

Dave,
Just got a black 12x KC Aviar. This thing feels sweet. I'm glad its nice and flat. Are the white ones like this. I think someone put it as a "velvety" feel. Also, are the black aviars going to be a regular or special thing? thanks in advance



I don't know first hand, but I was told the black are flatter than the white. The black, or any color is a special color. White is the norm.

Hi Dave, When do you think the standard star stamp Destroyers will hit retailers?



I don't know yet. Apparently, they added more of the first run Star stamp.

Hey Dave I had to add a new Pro Rhyno to my bag a couple weeks ago because I lost my backup putter, and I bought up a few and were all white, and I putt with a yellow but the white seems much more stiffer than the yellow and blue ones I have used. Is there a reason for this? Are the other colors still ran or are you sticking with white from now on?

Any chance of a Pro Ontario Roc? Worlds fundraiser?

Hey Dave I had to add a new Pro Rhyno to my bag a couple weeks ago because I lost my backup putter, and I bought up a few and were all white, and I putt with a yellow but the white seems much more stiffer than the yellow and blue ones I have used. Is there a reason for this? Are the other colors still ran or are you sticking with white from now on?



No good reason for it being stiffer. Pros usually vary from soft to softer, rather than stiff. No correlation with color at all. We usually run white in Pros, but try to add one or two other colors at times. Orange, yellow, and blue are the usual extra colors, but they could be anything that works.

Any chance of a Pro Ontario Roc? Worlds fundraiser?



Yes, if there is enough interest.

Why would innova change the dx small bead aviar to a beadless,cause I hate the new mold? Any chance they will run the small bead ever again?

Dave,

I love panthers and cobras, and I've learned that both of these discs will be discontinued in Champion plastic. Is there any chance you will be making Star Panthers or Star Cobras for any fundraisers???

Dave,

I love panthers and cobras, and I've learned that both of these discs will be discontinued in Champion plastic. Is there any chance you will be making Star Panthers or Star Cobras for any fundraisers???



What Ike said! :cool:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave,

I love panthers and cobras, and I've learned that both of these discs will be discontinued in Champion plastic. Is there any chance you will be making Star Panthers or Star Cobras for any fundraisers???


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Make that 3 of us.

Why would innova change the dx small bead aviar to a beadless,cause I hate the new mold? Any chance they will run the small bead ever again?



Millennium still uses the small bead mold for the SS and AP. We are not going to use it.

Dave,

I love panthers and cobras, and I've learned that both of these discs will be discontinued in Champion plastic. Is there any chance you will be making Star Panthers or Star Cobras for any fundraisers???



Yes, if there is a sufficient demand.

Dave,

I love panthers and cobras, and I've learned that both of these discs will be discontinued in Champion plastic. Is there any chance you will be making Star Panthers or Star Cobras for any fundraisers???



Yes, if there is a sufficient demand.


There is! I can vouch for that.

Dave,

I love panthers and cobras, and I've learned that both of these discs will be discontinued in Champion plastic. Is there any chance you will be making Star Panthers or Star Cobras for any fundraisers???



Yes, if there is a sufficient demand.


There is! I can vouch for that.



Me 2, have you done the last run of Panthers yet??

Dave, perhaps this has been asked, but are the Special Blend/Star plastics based on the opaque Champion plastic...as opposed to translucent gummy Champion plastic?


Have there ever been or will there ever be DX Sidewinders or DX Roadrunners?

Thanks. :cool:

Does anyone know if the Gremlin had a bead... and if so, do the champion ones at discgolfvalues have the bead also. thanks!

I know the original Proline Gremlins sure did, I think they flew similar to the Cro. The first run of star gremlins was beadless however. sorry i don't know about the new champ run

How long have Dragons been solid as rocks and looked like champ plastic? I got this thing last week just for the fact that it looked... different. And it is just so **** solid, I could kill a man with this thing.

How long these been out? Why are they so **** solid all of a sudden?

more durable/floating dx I believe.

Dave, perhaps this has been asked, but are the Special Blend/Star plastics based on the opaque Champion plastic...as opposed to translucent gummy Champion plastic?


Have there ever been or will there ever be DX Sidewinders or DX Roadrunners?

Thanks. :cool:



Both types of plastic can be used in Star.

We are definitely going to run DX Roadrunners or DX Sidewinders, or both. The first test will probably be after USDGC.

We are definitely going to run DX Roadrunners or DX Sidewinders, or both. The first test will probably be after USDGC.


In your words, Dave, compare the RR & SW with a TL...flightwise?

Hey, how about DX TLs? :D:) :cool:

The TL is more high speed stable. Additionally, although it has some low speed fade it doesn't seem to be as much as the RoadRunner. I haven't thrown a SideWinder in a while so I can't speak for its low speed fade.

I think there would be a huge demand for star panthers...

Hey, how about DX TLs?



I saw these a few years ago, they were mixed in with some regular DX Teebirds (T-mold) that we received. Haven't seen them since though...

How long have Dragons been solid as rocks and looked like champ plastic? I got this thing last week just for the fact that it looked... different. And it is just so **** solid, I could kill a man with this thing.

How long these been out? Why are they so **** solid all of a sudden?



Not sure how to answer this. The Dragon is not supposed to be any stiffer than other golf discs. It is a type of DX.

We are definitely going to run DX Roadrunners or DX Sidewinders, or both. The first test will probably be after USDGC.


In your words, Dave, compare the RR & SW with a TL...flightwise?

Hey, how about DX TLs? :D:) :cool:



The TL is a slightly slower disc with more carry at lower speeds. The TL starts out a little more high speed stable. The SW and RR are close to each other with the RR having a little less overstability.

Dave,

I love panthers and cobras, and I've learned that both of these discs will be discontinued in Champion plastic. Is there any chance you will be making Star Panthers or Star Cobras for any fundraisers???



Yes, if there is a sufficient demand.



Demand, demand, demand.

There's three more.

Dave, I have a double-stamped 10X KC Pro Eagle that is marked with a "J" in the bottom ring. I can't tell if this is an eagle or something else (JLS perhaps?). Any thoughts? Thanks.

<font color="blue">that might be 1 of my old disc </font>

Dave, I have a double-stamped 10X KC Pro Eagle that is marked with a "J" in the bottom ring. I can't tell if this is an eagle or something else (JLS perhaps?). Any thoughts? Thanks.



J is sometimes used as an experimental designation, but I don't recall any Eagles using that designation. I would have to see the disc to tell anything.

I am thinking about trying a Gremlin out. I throw rocs for mids (KC Pro) and they just seem to beat up to quickly. Sometimes I like have a beat roc for turnovers, but want something that flies like a brand new roc that doesnt turn over. I have tried the star rocs, and those just dont really work for me. would the gremlin be a good disc for me to try?

Also, I have some locals that really like the panther, and I am sure they would buy it if it came out in star plastic!

Q-Sentinel maybe..

Dave, I've seen the first run Star Cro's marked with C, SP and GT. Any reason for the different markings?

Yeah I have 2 that are marked SP also.

I heard those were mismarked.... thinking they were spider I can image.

Dave, I've seen the first run Star Cro's marked with C, SP and GT. Any reason for the different markings?



The first run of Cros were mismarked SP. No reason for GT, must be a mismark or a Gator.

Do you have the August winners posted for the CFR Program?

Dave-would you mind comparing the flights of the aero, kite, and dx no-bead aviar? i am looking for something for slow, fan-grip glidey shots less than 175. i putt w/ spiders and love it for my putting style, but need something with more float for certain upshots. thanks

The Winners should be posted today:

Jon B. - Scotts Valley, CA Discatcher Traveler

Chris F. - Harrison, OH Mini Discatcher

Ronald S. - Branson, MD Innova Merchandise Pack

David W. - High Point, NC 07 USDGC Partner Pack

Kevin D. - Phoenix, AZ 3-Pack Newly Released Discs

Joel W. - Tulsa, OK 3-Disc INNOVA Training Set

Eric K. - Santa Cruz, CA Innova T-Shirt

Joe R. - Oklahoma City, OK INNOVA Flex Ball Cap

Travis O. - Citrus Heights, CA USDGC DVD

Scott D. - Tucson, AZ Lead Group Live DVD 06 USDGC


The winner of the 2007 USDGC Sponsor Exemption ----
















Dan M. - La Crescenta, CA

Thanks Suzette!!

Ye ask and ye shall receive...we have the Mid Nationals CFR discs coming in on Friday which will include Star Cobras.

Dave do you know how light the Star Cobras were made?

Innova Star Cobra (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=1605)
Innova Star Whippet-X (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=420)

I know this has been asked before but how long do the sponsorship tickets stay in the raffle after they are received? Do you throw out all the tickets after a drawing and start over?
Thanks
Drew

Dave-would you mind comparing the flights of the aero, kite, and dx no-bead aviar? i am looking for something for slow, fan-grip glidey shots less than 175. i putt w/ spiders and love it for my putting style, but need something with more float for certain upshots. thanks



One more disc to look at in the area is the Skeeter. Of these discs, the Aero has the least torque resistance, so it is the worst in the wind. The Aviar has the least range. The Aero next. The Kite has the most range. The Skeeter is second. All of the flights of these discs are basically neutral. I see that the Kite is rated -3 high speed, but that is for DX. That could be changed to -1 as that has been my experience with the Star Kite. And, it only turns when thrown hard. I use the DX Aviar for that range, but if I wanted more float, I might use my Kite. Having said that, I would still recommend the Skeeter for you, because generically, as a longer approach disc, I think it is the best of the lot.

Ye ask and ye shall receive...we have the Mid Nationals CFR discs coming in on Friday which will include Star Cobras.

Dave do you know how light the Star Cobras were made?

Innova Star Cobra (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=1605)
Innova Star Whippet-X (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=420)



Most Star Cobras were max, although a few did go down to 165-169 range. There are also relatively few in the 170-177gm ranges.

I know this has been asked before but how long do the sponsorship tickets stay in the raffle after they are received? Do you throw out all the tickets after a drawing and start over?
Thanks
Drew



The tickets stay good for over a year. Any ticket that wins a monthly is taken out of all other drawings except the USDGC drawing.

Would heartily agree that the Skeeter merits float-upshot consideration. Have had one in the bag since they arrived last fall and it is the disc in between my Aviar and my mid-range quiver. Neutral as can be and drops on a dime with very little fade. Have used it for one-disc rounds when I want to expose what the kinks are in my game. Cliche that it is, the Skeeter truly goes where you throw it. It is also quite good for downhill shots.

I have a handful of friends who also putt with them, and have found them to be the best single disc to give to kids and newbies for its neutrality.

Ye ask and ye shall receive...we have the Mid Nationals CFR discs coming in on Friday which will include Star Cobras.

Dave do you know how light the Star Cobras were made?

Innova Star Cobra (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=1605)
Innova Star Whippet-X (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=420)



Most Star Cobras were max, although a few did go down to 165-169 range. There are also relatively few in the 170-177gm ranges.



Are these Classic Cobra mold or Champ Cobra mold? Thanks Dave.

Ye ask and ye shall receive...we have the Mid Nationals CFR discs coming in on Friday which will include Star Cobras.

Dave do you know how light the Star Cobras were made?

Innova Star Cobra (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=1605)
Innova Star Whippet-X (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=420)



Most Star Cobras were max, although a few did go down to 165-169 range. There are also relatively few in the 170-177gm ranges.



Are these Classic Cobra mold or Champ Cobra mold? Thanks Dave.




The Stars are Classic type with WWW engraving. I believe Champions were flat top type with Ontario engraving.

Hey Dave,
Is there one specific thing I could look for that would easily help me determine wether my four champion sharks are first run champion shark's?
Thank you,
Brent "FIG" Newton

Hey Dave I know you don't mange the web page but I was looking through Carries Burl list of wins and her 2006 European open is not listed and now she is now also the 2007 winner any chance she will be moved up to team star also like Val.

Hey Dave,
Is there one specific thing I could look for that would easily help me determine wether my four champion sharks are first run champion shark's?
Thank you,
Brent "FIG" Newton



I can't really think of anything except, (as a guess), a sharpness on the bottom edge of the rim. It is possible that a mold piece was retooled after the first run.

Hey Dave I know you don't mange the web page but I was looking through Carries Burl list of wins and her 2006 European open is not listed and now she is now also the 2007 winner any chance she will be moved up to team star also like Val.



There are many more requirements for the Star team than for the Champion team. If Carrie makes the requirements, she'll be on.

Hey Dave ,

Just a Quick question.

What hotstamps will be available on the next batch of Star and Champion Destroyers ?

Thanks in Advance ,

Donny Olow
DonnyOtime@yahoo.com

Hey Dave might have missed a few pages ago but have you ran the last batch of Champion Panthers yet??

The winner of the 2007 USDGC Sponsor Exemption ----Dan M. - La Crescenta, CA



how many cfr discs do i have to buy to have a shot at sponsors exemption? :p

i know.....just 1, but it seems like with over 50+ for each of the last 2 years i'd be luckier than 1 tee shirt :eek:

The winner of the 2007 USDGC Sponsor Exemption ----Dan M. - La Crescenta, CA



how many cfr discs do i have to buy to have a shot at sponsors exemption? :p

i know.....just 1, but it seems like with over 50+ for each of the last 2 years i'd be luckier than 1 tee shirt :eek:



Dman I gues my 3 dont have a shot for anything huh?? :confused:

Hi Dave,

Have you talked about the Star Stingrays yet on here? If not, are the newer versions the ones that are staying around, and why did you drop the plant location off the bottom? I hadnt heard much about them, but I had a friend say how much more he liked the newer version.

Hey Dave ,

Just a Quick question.

What hotstamps will be available on the next batch of Star and Champion Destroyers ?

Thanks in Advance ,

Donny Olow
DonnyOtime@yahoo.com



Star will be regular stamp. Champion Destroyers will be CFR. None of the previously used stamps will be used further on Destroyers.

Hey Dave might have missed a few pages ago but have you ran the last batch of Champion Panthers yet??



No, not yet. We will continue to run a limited amount of Champion Panthers

Hi Dave,

Have you talked about the Star Stingrays yet on here? If not, are the newer versions the ones that are staying around, and why did you drop the plant location off the bottom? I hadnt heard much about them, but I had a friend say how much more he liked the newer version.



All of the newer versions have www.... on the bottom as we removed the old engraving which was useless. This is the San Marino or Classic type Stingray which will be the only type we will produce in the future.

Hi Dave,

Have you talked about the Star Stingrays yet on here? If not, are the newer versions the ones that are staying around, and why did you drop the plant location off the bottom? I hadnt heard much about them, but I had a friend say how much more he liked the newer version.



All of the newer versions have www.... on the bottom as we removed the old engraving which was useless. This is the San Marino or Classic type Stingray which will be the only type we will produce in the future.


How does the San Marino Stingray compare to the others that have been available?

Hi Dave,

Have you talked about the Star Stingrays yet on here? If not, are the newer versions the ones that are staying around, and why did you drop the plant location off the bottom? I hadnt heard much about them, but I had a friend say how much more he liked the newer version.



All of the newer versions have www.... on the bottom as we removed the old engraving which was useless. This is the San Marino or Classic type Stingray which will be the only type we will produce in the future.


How does the San Marino Stingray compare to the others that have been available?



The Ontario types were a little faster with less float. I believe the Ontarios were a little more overstable too, but I am not certain of that.

Hey Dave ,

Any chance in making Clear and possibly Glow runs of the Destroyer ?

Thanks,

Donny Olow

Hey Dave ,

Any chance in making Clear and possibly Glow runs of the Destroyer ?

Thanks,

Donny Olow



Sure, at some point. I-dyed too, but we have to make the normal runs first. The CFR Champions are scheduled to be available Oct 1. After that, we are looking to run Pros and have them available by the first of the year.

Pro Destroyer! SWEET!

Pro Destroyer! SWEET!



Wow a Pro Destroyer, we dont have many 500ft holes around here to throw that not sure what it would be in the bag for, but it would be nice to have.

do you expect the pros to be able to mold up lighter than the star or champ? any plans to try dx? thx again

Pro Destroyers???? I think I just had a moment....... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Peace
Scott

...After that, we are looking to run Pros and have them available by the first of the year.



I assume this means that some drivers will continue to be made with Pro plastic. What drivers will continue to be made in Pro plastic, if any?

Thanks for answering our questions Dave!

Jerry Sunkin, DiscGolfCenter.com

do you expect the pros to be able to mold up lighter than the star or champ? any plans to try dx? thx again



No, the test shots only went down to 168 gms. We do have plans to test DX. DX will go down below 150 gms. The problem with DX in the long range drivers is running with any consistency. We will be able to make limited DX runs if we can't make general runs.

...After that, we are looking to run Pros and have them available by the first of the year.



I assume this means that some drivers will continue to be made with Pro plastic. What drivers will continue to be made in Pro plastic, if any?

Thanks for answering our questions Dave!

Jerry Sunkin, DiscGolfCenter.com



We plan on continuing the Pro Wraith, Pro Starfire, and possibly four other Pro drivers including the Pro Destroyer.
The leading candidates for other Pro drivers are Valyrie, Beast, and Leopard.

Dave have the CE Spiders ever been run in black?
Thanks
Drew

Dave have the CE Spiders ever been run in black?
Thanks
Drew



I think so, but I am not sure

I have been told that all champion gators have had a bead, is this correct?

COUGHpro-orcCOUGH

;)

Dave, that is great news too keep the PRO Valk &amp; Beast

[QUOTE]
We plan on continuing the Pro Wraith, Pro Starfire, and possibly four other Pro drivers including the Pro Destroyer.
The leading candidates for other Pro drivers are Valyrie, Beast, and Leopard.





COUGHpro-orcCOUGH

;)



Pro Orcs: they get my vote too! :D

I have been told that all champion gators have had a bead, is this correct?



That should be the case

[QUOTE]
We plan on continuing the Pro Wraith, Pro Starfire, and possibly four other Pro drivers including the Pro Destroyer.
The leading candidates for other Pro drivers are Valyrie, Beast, and Leopard.





COUGHpro-orcCOUGH

;)



Pro Orcs: they get my vote too! :D



Pro Orcs are the shiznit! Bring'em back!

I have a couple if anyone's interested...

E

Dave, how many of those mis-marked skeeters are there? They have HOB on the bottom instead of Sk. Any idea if they are a collectable?

...After that, we are looking to run Pros and have them available by the first of the year.



I assume this means that some drivers will continue to be made with Pro plastic. What drivers will continue to be made in Pro plastic, if any?

Thanks for answering our questions Dave!

Jerry Sunkin, DiscGolfCenter.com



We plan on continuing the Pro Wraith, Pro Starfire, and possibly four other Pro drivers including the Pro Destroyer.
The leading candidates for other Pro drivers are Valyrie, Beast, and Leopard.



Pro Destroyer !!!!! I had better save up some money !!!! :D

Hi Dave,

Which Innova disc would you say compares most closely with the Millenium Aurora midrange?

Thanks,

Rizbee
(still hoping for Star Wolves someday...)

Hi Dave,

Which Innova disc would you say compares most closely with the Millennium Aurora midrange?

Thanks,

Rizbee
(still hoping for Star Wolves someday...)



The two closest models are the Shark and Ontario Roc.

Hi Dave,

Which Innova disc would you say compares most closely with the Millennium Aurora midrange?

Thanks,

Rizbee
(still hoping for Star Wolves someday...)



The two closest models are the Shark and Ontario Roc.


That makes sense - I love Ontarios for straight and anhyzer shots and the Aurora has become my new favorite for straight mid-range shots.

Thanks!!

That makes sense - I love Ontarios for straight and anhyzer shots and the Aurora has become my new favorite for straight mid-range shots.



pardon the pun, but the Aurora MS rocks!!!! :D

I recall someone describing a beadless Roc Innova makes for a different brand, but I don't remember what disc he was talking about. What disc fits that description and how does it fly compared to a beaded Roc; or a Shark?

Discmania MD-1