I can't wait till (or if) the Teerex X is in a regular production.

CFR(Champion) Whippets - Why only the one champion run? This would probably be a big seller in the CFR program.



I'd buy a handful.

Innova Wish List :

Star Banshees - I love the KC Pros and would really like to try this in Star Plastic. Very underrated disc!

CFR(Champion) Whippets - Why only the one champion run? This would probably be a big seller in the CFR program.

CFR(Champion) Maxs - ?

Now that the Wraith is a regular production disc in Champion plastic, is the TeeRex next?



Not for a year at least.

Dave,

Is that a year at least in regards to the Champ Whippets???
Right now I dont wanna pay $40 for them on ebay......

thanks dave--when do you expect this new run of dx teerex's to hit retailers, and how will those of us that have to mailorder request these newer ones? updated stamp or underside marking? thanks again



That's a good question and I don't have any definitive answers yet. It is possible we will start testing tomorrow and through the weekend. Monday, will be the decision to run or not. Most likely 150 class will be run first if they test well. After that, again if they test well, we will run enough for custom hotstamping. We still have sufficient stamped inventory of older DX TeeRex's. I suppose that will be one way to tell the difference. Next year, custom hotstamped TeeRex's will be the latest type. I suppose we could put some sort of marking on the bottom, but I'm not sure what to put that wouldn't be confusing. There is only one type of TeeRex now. There used to be more than one. It's more stable than the older type, and about as stable as a TeeRex X, but it doesn't look like an X.

Dave,

Congratulations on the Destroyer being a huge success! I was wondering since it's so popular if we'd see more discs like it? And more specifically do you expect to make more (and less stable) discs with the 2.2 cm rim thickness?

Thanks,

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com



We have already tried and failed so far on a less stable version. We have several more stable versions that we may issue at some point, especially in lighter weight DX or Pro. Also, the PDGA may tighten the definition of "golf disc" to disallow these large rims. It was my suggestion, but I don't think they will have the courage or wisdom to do it. Until they disallow it, as I think they should, we are more or less forced to stay on top of the heap. The consumer is dictating things at this point. The consumer doesn't necessarily care about "Sport", they will throw anything that they think will work for them. That's okay, it's not the consumers job to care about the sport of disc golf. The PDGA should.

I would suggest indicating to the PDGA how you would propose handling the issue of significant numbers of discs already produced and in the market like the Destroyer already exceeding your proposed guideline. If your proposed guideline is approved, would you expect TDs and players to monitor whether these discs are being used? Would there be a grace period for their use? If Innova's discs aren't the only ones affected, would you expect the other manufacturers to agree with you and not pursue some form of compensation from the PDGA? I think accounting for the economic impact and practical implementation of any change may be more relevant than having the conviction to set a rollback standard that might be appropriate.

I would suggest indicating to the PDGA how you would propose handling the issue of significant numbers of discs already produced and in the market like the Destroyer already exceeding your proposed guideline. If your proposed guideline is approved, would you expect TDs and players to monitor whether these discs are being used? Would there be a grace period for their use? If Innova's discs aren't the only ones affected, would you expect the other manufacturers to agree with you and not pursue some form of compensation from the PDGA? I think accounting for the economic impact and practical implementation of any change may be more relevant than having the conviction to set a rollback standard that might be appropriate.



I have already recommended to the PDGA how to handle the discs that would be disallowed. Bring the changes over a reasonable period of time. Say the normal life of a disc, for instance. This could be ten years. Whatever. There would be little or no economic impact. The golf discs sold in the world as opposed to the PDGA world is huge. The manufacturers have no right to sue the PDGA for anything. The can sell whatever they want to whomever will buy it, before during and after the guideline changes. The previous manufacturers of overweight discs didn't sue. There is a reasonable solution. Manufacturers have reasonable expectations of sales. It's way unreasonable to expect all of their sales to be to PDGA customers. Another strategy that would be even safer for the PDGA is to adopt Professional standards as opposed to non tournament/casual standards. The new standards can be applied to just the tournament player. Encourage the casual player to play with whatever makes them happy.

The most expedient strategy is to grandfather existing approved discs, set guideline for future discs and expiration dates on all grandfathered discs. It's not rocket surgery. ;)

Screw all that....I want my destroyers!!!

Stop there if you have to....but please no retroactive pull on the Pro Destroyers!!!

They are so perfect I thought I was viewing a work of art....Then I threw it, and the beauty is in the flight....

I don't see why a matter of centimeters should dictate so much....

I don't see why a matter of centimeters should dictate so much....



I think "millimeters" is the appropriate term.

Dave, what are your underlying reasons for your want to limit rim width? Does it have to do with maintaining course lengths? Or safety? :confused:

Personally, I have small fingers, and cannot get a good grip on anything wider than an SL...you know what they say about guys with little fingers, right?

SMALL GLOVES! :p

-E

I would suggest indicating to the PDGA how you would propose handling the issue of significant numbers of discs already produced and in the market like the Destroyer already exceeding your proposed guideline. If your proposed guideline is approved, would you expect TDs and players to monitor whether these discs are being used? Would there be a grace period for their use? If Innova's discs aren't the only ones affected, would you expect the other manufacturers to agree with you and not pursue some form of compensation from the PDGA? I think accounting for the economic impact and practical implementation of any change may be more relevant than having the conviction to set a rollback standard that might be appropriate.



I have already recommended to the PDGA how to handle the discs that would be disallowed. Bring the changes over a reasonable period of time. Say the normal life of a disc, for instance. This could be ten years. Whatever. There would be little or no economic impact. The golf discs sold in the world as opposed to the PDGA world is huge. The manufacturers have no right to sue the PDGA for anything. The can sell whatever they want to whomever will buy it, before during and after the guideline changes. The previous manufacturers of overweight discs didn't sue. There is a reasonable solution. Manufacturers have reasonable expectations of sales. It's way unreasonable to expect all of their sales to be to PDGA customers. Another strategy that would be even safer for the PDGA is to adopt Professional standards as opposed to non tournament/casual standards. The new standards can be applied to just the tournament player. Encourage the casual player to play with whatever makes them happy.

The most expedient strategy is to grandfather existing approved discs, set guideline for future discs and expiration dates on all grandfathered discs. It's not rocket surgery. ;)



Why not make it end now and set the maximum to 22mm?

I don't see why a matter of centimeters should dictate so much....



I think "millimeters" is the appropriate term.

Dave, what are your underlying reasons for your want to limit rim width? Does it have to do with maintaining course lengths? Or safety? :confused:

Personally, I have small fingers, and cannot get a good grip on anything wider than an SL...you know what they say about guys with little fingers, right?

SMALL GLOVES! :p

-E



Eric, there are two main reasons for it in my mind. One is, as you said, people with smaller fingers are not going to be able to use these wider rimmed discs as well. Generally, these same people will be at a greater disadvantage than they already are. These wider rimmed discs tend to make disc golf more ballistic than aerodynamic and gives the big boys an even greater advantage than they already have. The second concern is safety. Wide rimmed discs, as they are the most ballistic discs available make overhead type shots easier, longer, and faster. These are some of the most dangerous shots in disc golf already as the discs come down and hit the ground very fast. The danger is especially apparent with squirrelly type ballistic discs that can come down in random places.

I would suggest indicating to the PDGA how you would propose handling the issue of significant numbers of discs already produced and in the market like the Destroyer already exceeding your proposed guideline. If your proposed guideline is approved, would you expect TDs and players to monitor whether these discs are being used? Would there be a grace period for their use? If Innova's discs aren't the only ones affected, would you expect the other manufacturers to agree with you and not pursue some form of compensation from the PDGA? I think accounting for the economic impact and practical implementation of any change may be more relevant than having the conviction to set a rollback standard that might be appropriate.



I have already recommended to the PDGA how to handle the discs that would be disallowed. Bring the changes over a reasonable period of time. Say the normal life of a disc, for instance. This could be ten years. Whatever. There would be little or no economic impact. The golf discs sold in the world as opposed to the PDGA world is huge. The manufacturers have no right to sue the PDGA for anything. The can sell whatever they want to whomever will buy it, before during and after the guideline changes. The previous manufacturers of overweight discs didn't sue. There is a reasonable solution. Manufacturers have reasonable expectations of sales. It's way unreasonable to expect all of their sales to be to PDGA customers. Another strategy that would be even safer for the PDGA is to adopt Professional standards as opposed to non tournament/casual standards. The new standards can be applied to just the tournament player. Encourage the casual player to play with whatever makes them happy.

The most expedient strategy is to grandfather existing approved discs, set guideline for future discs and expiration dates on all grandfathered discs. It's not rocket surgery. ;)



Why not make it end now and set the maximum to 22mm?



That would certainly be better than the nothing we have now.

Also, the PDGA may tighten the definition of "golf disc" to disallow these large rims. It was my suggestion, but I don't think they will have the courage or wisdom to do it. Until they disallow it, as I think they should, we are more or less forced to stay on top of the heap.

The consumer is dictating things at this point. The consumer doesn't necessarily care about "Sport", they will throw anything that they think will work for them.

That's okay, it's not the consumers job to care about the sport of disc golf. The PDGA should.

[/QUOTE]


Id say they dont have the courage. Id love for a Teebird to be my widest rimmed disc in PDGA Sanctioned Events. It seems alot of people on these boards actually think that this is the world of disc golf, and dont consider that rec players/ non PDGA members probably outnumber us 5 to 1. If not 10 to 1. Great post Dave.

Hi Dave--i may have missed this, but how did the pro destroyers test vs. the star? thanks again and also thanks in advance for a destroyer or the like in a 150 class stiff dx plastic--

Hi Dave--i may have missed this, but how did the pro destroyers test vs. the star? thanks again and also thanks in advance for a destroyer or the like in a 150 class stiff dx plastic--



Pro Destroyers tested well against the Star both in terms of stability and durability. I believe the Pro generally starts out a little more high speed stable than the Star, but should wear more quickly. My original Pro at 168 was tested on concrete and asphalt before I even got to the course. Nothing I have done on the course has made it turn more, so I think these are pretty good. In addition, the Pro seem to fly a little further than either the Champion or Star. So if you are looking for the most stable Destroyer, I would go for the Champion type. If you are looking for the longest, the Pro is the ticket. That being said, the two Destroyers I throw most are my beat up Pro and my Star.

Dave,

Will you tell me if you did anything special for the plastic used in the Pro Destroyer mold?

This stuff is very weirdly grippy....

I used it this weekend at the Oklahoma Open and really liked it...

I just know this is not the typical Pro plastic....nothing at all like the pro wraiths I have....

Thanks Dave...

Dave,

Will you tell me if you did anything special for the plastic used in the Pro Destroyer mold?

This stuff is very weirdly grippy....

I used it this weekend at the Oklahoma Open and really liked it...

I just know this is not the typical Pro plastic....nothing at all like the pro wraiths I have....

Thanks Dave...



The Pro plastic is made of several plastics. It just may be a variation of the same plastic or it may be a start up shot. Sometimes start up shots are shot hotter than they should be as the plastic was cooking longer. At any rate, the plastic formulas for the Pro Destroyer and Wraith are the same.

I will have to say that you have done a great job with the Pro Destroyer Dave!!! It is by far the longest disc in my golf bag by about 40' or more, very stable and very consistent.

I hope that the 150 class Destroyer is obtainable?

I hope that the 150 class Destroyer is obtainable?



No, not yet, but we will be working on it as soon as we can catch up to inventory. We just started running DX TeeRexes in the latest DX mix and they look to be working well. We will try the same formula on the Destroyers and hope it works there too.

Dave,

Do you see the Teerex-X coming off the CFR list and in to regular production?

Dave,

Do you see the Teerex-X coming off the CFR list and in to regular production?



All future TeeRexs will be one type, essentially X. Champion will remain in CFR for now.

will you continue to produce the Destroyer if the new tech standards continue to allow wide rimmed discs? will you produce it anyway sans approval if the new standards disallow it for pdga sanctioned play?

Dave,

Do you see the Teerex-X coming off the CFR list and in to regular production?



All future TeeRexs will be one type, essentially X. Champion will remain in CFR for now.



When you say essentially X, does that mean you've tweeked the X mold to be the regular Teerex? Are the teerexs that are being ran now this mold?

will you continue to produce the Destroyer if the new tech standards continue to allow wide rimmed discs? will you produce it anyway sans approval if the new standards disallow it for pdga sanctioned play?



Yes.
No.

Dave,

Do you see the Teerex-X coming off the CFR list and in to regular production?



All future TeeRexs will be one type, essentially X. Champion will remain in CFR for now.



When you say essentially X, does that mean you've tweeked the X mold to be the regular Teerex? Are the teerexs that are being ran now this mold?



Yes, and Yes.

Dave - Thanks for (releasing) the Sonic. I brought mine to Morley and EI over the weekend and passed it around for other players to throw. All agreed that as an approach disc it was dead straight and stopped on a dime. Not all felt there was a place for it in their bag, but some of them should make room, IMO. ;)

I see it as a great disc for newer to intermediate players for sure - those players who lose a lot of strokes over-shooting approaches or missing approaches side-to-side. Since this disc has little, if any, fade it goes where you aim it and stops on that line. Mine is a 177g - once I get one about 5 grams lighter I will carry it in my bag - I'd like a little more float.

Hey Dave,

Why is the Star Gremlin beadless? Would it be better called a Gremlin L?

The Champion Gremlin is AMAZING! Any chance of standard production of this disc again?

Hey Dave,

Why is the Star Gremlin beadless? Would it be better called a Gremlin L?

The Champion Gremlin is AMAZING! Any chance of standard production of this disc again?



Yes, the Star Gremlin could have been called L. At the time we tested, it seemed very stable in Star plastic. Apparently our testing was flawed.
There is a some chance of the Gremlin going back into production.

Apparently our testing was flawed.


I'm not sure I would say that. My STAR Gremlins all started out pretty darned overstable (on a par with or beyond my beloved Proline Gremlins), but over the course of hundreds of throws (many into trees, as anyone who plays with me can attest) beat into laser-straight flyers. Given less-than-infinite testing time, there is just no way to tell how a disc is going to "season".

The batch of Star Gremlins I recieved were stable to SLIGHTLY over stable out of the box. The Champions I have are over stable pigs though. They are amazing!

The Champions I have are over stable pigs though. They are amazing!


I still prefer the old Prolines for my overstable middie, but the new Champions do feel & fly quite nicely.

Thanks for the feedback guys. It's very helpful as it is hard to do the test over time. Artificially beating them up is not necessarily like real play.

Thanks for the feedback guys. It's very helpful as it is hard to do the test over time. Artificially beating them up is not necessarily like real play.



And how do you do this artificial beating up process?

Dave and Innova Crew

I have asked you, awhile back, about overstable mid range disc like Drone. You recommended me Gator. I actually brought it and use it in some situtations. It has not satisfied me yet. Discgolfvaules.com had some Gator-X and I nabbed one. WOW! I wanted to say many thanks for making the truest overstable midrange disc since I threw drones. Im throwing Gator out of my bag and put Gator X in! Are you planning to make more Gator-X in the future, in Star Plastic??

Space Cadet
P.S. I almost got Ace last Saturday with Gator X :DRight into the chains, but too much power /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Welcome to the GatorX underground ;)

dave,
Please don't discontinue the Dx TeeRex. I got one of the earlier Magenta ones in max weight and it's an amazing disc. It was flat topped and Gummy for DX and it still was overstable and fast. It has now turned into a hyzerflipping laserbeam. I'd like to know that when this one gets lost i can still order up a bunch of these.

-Scott Lewis

dave,
Please don't discontinue the Dx TeeRex. I got one of the earlier Magenta ones in max weight and it's an amazing disc. It was flat topped and Gummy for DX and it still was overstable and fast. It has now turned into a hyzerflipping laserbeam. I'd like to know that when this one gets lost i can still order up a bunch of these.

-Scott Lewis



I think the problem with the Rex was that very few of them actually turned out like that. The newer mold is supposed to be more consistent from run to run.

Thanks for the feedback guys. It's very helpful as it is hard to do the test over time. Artificially beating them up is not necessarily like real play.



And how do you do this artificial beating up process?



Throws on asphalt, rough cement, and against brick walls. Straighten, smooth with towel, repeat.

Dave and Innova Crew

I have asked you, awhile back, about overstable mid range disc like Drone. You recommended me Gator. I actually brought it and use it in some situtations. It has not satisfied me yet. Discgolfvaules.com had some Gator-X and I nabbed one. WOW! I wanted to say many thanks for making the truest overstable midrange disc since I threw drones. Im throwing Gator out of my bag and put Gator X in! Are you planning to make more Gator-X in the future, in Star Plastic??

Space Cadet
P.S. I almost got Ace last Saturday with Gator X :DRight into the chains, but too much power /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



The Gator X is now the default mold.

dave,
Please don't discontinue the Dx TeeRex. I got one of the earlier Magenta ones in max weight and it's an amazing disc. It was flat topped and Gummy for DX and it still was overstable and fast. It has now turned into a hyzerflipping laserbeam. I'd like to know that when this one gets lost i can still order up a bunch of these.

-Scott Lewis



We have decided to continue for now. The new mold appears to be working fine.

how are you supposed to straighten a disc? i know smoothing with towel works but i can never work them back to be straight...

Dave, is the Sonic somewhat like an understable Rhyno? And if so, I'd recommend sticking with the softer champ plastics if and when you run a batch for production.

how are you supposed to straighten a disc? i know smoothing with towel works but i can never work them back to be straight...



You need to use a quick jerking motion. It works very well if the disc has just recently been bent. It may not work on discs that have been bent for a while.

Dave, is the Sonic somewhat like an understable Rhyno? And if so, I'd recommend sticking with the softer champ plastics if and when you run a batch for production.



I suppose the Sonic is grossly like the Rhyno, but while the Sonic is very good at low speeds, it is not particularly good at high speeds. The Rhyno, on the other hand is good at high speeds.

is the now default gator-x mold any different than the original gator mold used for the first runs of the champion gator? if so, how, and why was it tweaked in the 1st place? i guess this last question could apply to the gremlin as well. thanks.

is the now default gator-x mold any different than the original gator mold used for the first runs of the champion gator? if so, how, and why was it tweaked in the 1st place? i guess this last question could apply to the gremlin as well. thanks.



I was a Gator thrower for a while, but when I realized I could turn a Gator over with my sidearm, I stopped using it. It needed a slight boost, IMO, and I gave it one. The Gator will beat in to a less than overstable pig after a while, but it should now start out that way.

The Gremlin/Sniper is a similar story, but has more chapters. The Gremlin/Sniper originally was very close to the Panther, an unstable disc. Only very careful molding could keep it from being unstable too. The Xtra stable version solved this problem for us. Again, it may take a while to beat it in to a neutral flyer, but it will last longer that way.

The similarity of the Panther and the Gremlin is one of the reasons that both are in my bag. I am very comfortable with the grip that I get on both of them in their similarity; one is understable, the other somewhat overstable. Essentially I feel as if I'm throwing one mold, with markedly different yet still predictable results. In the premium plastics (champ/star) they hold those performance characteristics for a long time.

As with Ray I have a star Grem (GSC 2006 stamp) that has beat to being an extremely straight disc. For a while now I have had three discs in the bag where my grip is the same, getting three different dependable lines for similar distance. Very nice to rely upon.

I've noticed something interesting: I tend to, in practice when I'm less focused, griplock the Destroyer A LOT more than I do anything else. Do you think that as the rims widen we're more likely to griplock as a result of our fingers being more tightly wrapped around the rim?

I've noticed something interesting: I tend to, in practice when I'm less focused, griplock the Destroyer A LOT more than I do anything else. Do you think that as the rims widen we're more likely to griplock as a result of our fingers being more tightly wrapped around the rim?



The Destroyer has a faster cruising speed than any disc I've thrown. This means that you must release it a little faster to put it on the line you want. I'm with you and tend to want to just crank it every time I throw, thus resulting in a higher percentage of late releases as I try and squeeze every last drop of power out of myself. Being conscious of this and remembering to stay slow and smooth until the snap has helped my accuracy with this disc. It is still more fun to just reach back as far as you can and grunt the destroyer out there with everything you've got.

I've noticed something interesting: I tend to, in practice when I'm less focused, griplock the Destroyer A LOT more than I do anything else. Do you think that as the rims widen we're more likely to griplock as a result of our fingers being more tightly wrapped around the rim?



I would not think griplock intuitively. Rather, I would think early release for a wide rimmed disc. A tight grip doesn't cause griplock per se. Timing issues along with a lack of feel for the right part of the grip, causes griplock.

If you were a beginner, I would tell you that griplock is a good thing. Griplock is usually a real good snap in an unexpected direction. (late) You just need to manage the timing and body position properly. Since you're not a beginner, it has to be grip position/feel and timing. The wide rimmed disc is coming out differently for you than the narrower rim, causing you to miss your timing.

any plans on making a pro line teerex, since there is a pro wraith and destroyer?

any plans on making a pro line teerex, since there is a pro wraith and destroyer?



No, not at this point.

Dave and Innova Crew

I have asked you, awhile back, about overstable mid range disc like Drone. You recommended me Gator. I actually brought it and use it in some situtations. It has not satisfied me yet. Discgolfvaules.com had some Gator-X and I nabbed one. WOW! I wanted to say many thanks for making the truest overstable midrange disc since I threw drones. Im throwing Gator out of my bag and put Gator X in! Are you planning to make more Gator-X in the future, in Star Plastic??

Space Cadet
P.S. I almost got Ace last Saturday with Gator X :DRight into the chains, but too much power /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Come to the darkside...... throw a champion whippet.

So is a Champion Gator the X mold or did you come up with another mold more stable than the Champion?? I have a 1st run that I still throw which is way overstable and I know the Star were L molds but did you dis-contniue gators in Champ and now run them in CFR??

I have both champion gators and champion gator x's. The x's are crazy overstable.

So is a Champion Gator the X mold or did you come up with another mold more stable than the Champion?? I have a 1st run that I still throw which is way overstable and I know the Star were L molds but did you dis-contniue gators in Champ and now run them in CFR??



Star and DX are in regular production. Champion is CFR. The Star was the L version, but we are going to all X type.

how is the x-type different from the original mold, and how can i tell the difference? the L is easy to spot [no bead], but how are original and x different? is it correct that you are doing the dx gator in x now as well? thanks

how is the x-type different from the original mold, and how can i tell the difference? the L is easy to spot [no bead], but how are original and x different? is it correct that you are doing the dx gator in x now as well? thanks



It may not be easy to tell, but the nose is slightly blunter. We re-made a mold part. The DX will be made with the newer part. The newer part makes more stable discs.

Dave and Innova Crew

I have asked you, awhile back, about overstable mid range disc like Drone. You recommended me Gator. I actually brought it and use it in some situtations. It has not satisfied me yet. Discgolfvaules.com had some Gator-X and I nabbed one. WOW! I wanted to say many thanks for making the truest overstable midrange disc since I threw drones. Im throwing Gator out of my bag and put Gator X in! Are you planning to make more Gator-X in the future, in Star Plastic??

Space Cadet
P.S. I almost got Ace last Saturday with Gator X :DRight into the chains, but too much power /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Come to the darkside...... throw a champion whippet.



this man speaks thruth

Dave and Innova Crew

I have asked you, awhile back, about overstable mid range disc like Drone. You recommended me Gator. I actually brought it and use it in some situtations. It has not satisfied me yet. Discgolfvaules.com had some Gator-X and I nabbed one. WOW! I wanted to say many thanks for making the truest overstable midrange disc since I threw drones. Im throwing Gator out of my bag and put Gator X in! Are you planning to make more Gator-X in the future, in Star Plastic??

Space Cadet
P.S. I almost got Ace last Saturday with Gator X :DRight into the chains, but too much power /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Come to the darkside...... throw a champion whippet.



this man speaks thruth



let the gospel of the champion whippet set you free!!

So is a Champion Gator the X mold or did you come up with another mold more stable than the Champion?? I have a 1st run that I still throw which is way overstable and I know the Star were L molds but did you dis-contniue gators in Champ and now run them in CFR??



Star and DX are in regular production. Champion is CFR. The Star was the L version, but we are going to all X type.



Star Gator X, best news I've heard lately! Thanks for listening Dave! :D

I have 2 questions

1) For my buddy, are you going to release the Viking in Star plastic?

2)Could you tell me about the DGA Factoring. I know it was an after market tooling by DGA. Did Innova do that for them or was it DGA? What is the numbering? I recieved a DGA Factor VI Aviar. Also, would this make them illegal in PDGA play?

Thanks in advance

I have 2 questions
2)Could you tell me about the DGA Factoring. I know it was an after market tooling by DGA. Did Innova do that for them or was it DGA? What is the numbering? I recieved a DGA Factor VI Aviar. Also, would this make them illegal in PDGA play?

Thanks in advance


The factoring was made by the DGA (Steady) and most of the discs that I have seen are approved by the PSGA for tournament play. Take a look in the approved list under DGA, "modified discs". The disc's that are just slightly shaved are called factor 1. The factor 2's are shaved a little bit more, and so on down to the factor 5's.

Dave and Innova Crew

I have asked you, awhile back, about overstable mid range disc like Drone. You recommended me Gator. I actually brought it and use it in some situtations. It has not satisfied me yet. Discgolfvaules.com had some Gator-X and I nabbed one. WOW! I wanted to say many thanks for making the truest overstable midrange disc since I threw drones. Im throwing Gator out of my bag and put Gator X in! Are you planning to make more Gator-X in the future, in Star Plastic??

Space Cadet
P.S. I almost got Ace last Saturday with Gator X :DRight into the chains, but too much power /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Come to the darkside...... throw a champion whippet.



this man speaks thruth



let the gospel of the champion whippet set you free!!



I will have to place another vote for the Champion Whippet. It is like a midrange Max, and probably even more overstable.

How are Star Whippets flying for people? Just as overstable?

I have 2 questions

1) For my buddy, are you going to release the Viking in Star plastic?

2)Could you tell me about the DGA Factoring. I know it was an after market tooling by DGA. Did Innova do that for them or was it DGA? What is the numbering? I recieved a DGA Factor VI Aviar. Also, would this make them illegal in PDGA play?

Thanks in advance



No Star Vikings for now.

We did not do the factoring for DGA. We just supplied them with discs.

I doubt that the Aviar would be illegal with factor VI, but I am pretty sure the factor V Stingray was at least questionable.

DGA was not the first to do "factoring". Destiny discs was.

DGAs first offerings were the Stingray factored from 1 to 5, and the Pro from 1 to 3. Number 1 was not factored, 2 up, were factored progressively more. The Pro was probably the most under appreciated disc in the history of disc golf.

DGA subsequently factored Whippets, and possibly others, but I lost track after the Stingray and Pro.

I have 2 questions
2)Could you tell me about the DGA Factoring. I know it was an after market tooling by DGA. Did Innova do that for them or was it DGA? What is the numbering? I recieved a DGA Factor VI Aviar. Also, would this make them illegal in PDGA play?

Thanks in advance


The factoring was made by the DGA (Steady) and most of the discs that I have seen are approved by the PSGA for tournament play. Take a look in the approved list under DGA, "modified discs". The disc's that are just slightly shaved are called factor 1. The factor 2's are shaved a little bit more, and so on down to the factor 5's.



The factors only go to 5? I Just got an Aviar that has a factor 6. Is this rare?

Will Innova be offering any new glow discs in either plastic? A Rhyno or Valkyrie would be sweet!

The factors only go to 5? I Just got an Aviar that has a factor 6. Is this rare?



Sorry, I know nothing about a factored Aviar.

Will Innova be offering any new glow discs in either plastic? A Rhyno or Valkyrie would be sweet!



I'm guessing we will. Nothing has been set yet, but a Valkyrie would be a good choice.

Will Innova be offering any new glow discs in either plastic? A Rhyno or Valkyrie would be sweet!



I'm guessing we will. Nothing has been set yet, but a Valkyrie would be a good choice.



How about a firebird and not an FL

Will Innova be offering any new glow discs in either plastic? A Rhyno or Valkyrie would be sweet!



I'm guessing we will. Nothing has been set yet, but a Valkyrie would be a good choice.



How about a firebird and not an FL



How about an FX....

in that taffy CE plastic!!!!!!

I have 2 questions
2)Could you tell me about the DGA Factoring. I know it was an after market tooling by DGA. Did Innova do that for them or was it DGA? What is the numbering? I recieved a DGA Factor VI Aviar. Also, would this make them illegal in PDGA play?

Thanks in advance


The factoring was made by the DGA (Steady) and most of the discs that I have seen are approved by the PSGA for tournament play. Take a look in the approved list under DGA, "modified discs". The disc's that are just slightly shaved are called factor 1. The factor 2's are shaved a little bit more, and so on down to the factor 5's.



The factors only go to 5? I Just got an Aviar that has a factor 6. Is this rare?



:eek: Factor6! Never seen one of those! Probably a test, is it hotstamped with "Facto 6" or is it just written on/under it? Do you have a photo?

i'll get a pic up. Its a green hotstamp on the front that says "DGA Factor VI"

Here's a link to photbucket and 2 pics of the disc. Its pretty much a Classic Aviar now. Stiff no bead Aviar. It feels real good in the hand. I was gonna toss it, but I may keep it now since no one knows much about Factor 6 or factoring done to Aviars. Factor 6 Aviar pics (http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/dgdave/)

I ahd one of those before, and still might.

Nice Picture, its probaqb�y a BB or SB but the bead is shaved away? I have just seen factor4 aviiars (SB and BB) before.

Yup. its pretty much just like a new classic aviar except its in the older dx. Its a very nice feeling disc.

I have 2 questions

1) For my buddy, are you going to release the Viking in Star plastic?

2)Could you tell me about the DGA Factoring. I know it was an after market tooling by DGA. Did Innova do that for them or was it DGA? What is the numbering? I recieved a DGA Factor VI Aviar. Also, would this make them illegal in PDGA play?

Thanks in advance



No Star Vikings for now.

We did not do the factoring for DGA. We just supplied them with discs.

I doubt that the Aviar would be illegal with factor VI, but I am pretty sure the factor V Stingray was at least questionable.

DGA was not the first to do "factoring". Destiny discs was.

DGAs first offerings were the Stingray factored from 1 to 5, and the Pro from 1 to 3. Number 1 was not factored, 2 up, were factored progressively more. The Pro was probably the most under appreciated disc in the history of disc golf.

DGA subsequently factored Whippets, and possibly others, but I lost track after the Stingray and Pro.



I am not sure but I think Destiny started it with the Lazer.
The first DGA disc was the KH Fader 2 and 3.

There are Vipers also, Factor 1 Vipers and Whippes are shaved.

The Stingray factor 5 are aprroved.

If anyone have one extra to sell/trade I am interrrested.

Dave -

I have an Innova Tour bag that is about 4 months old since I bought it, one of the new ones that came out toward the beginning of the year. The bag has began tearing along the seams on the inside of the bag, bottom corner, drink pouches, and the seams on the straps unravelled after about 4 rounds of use. A guy at the VPO today told me he had the same problem with his bag and that Innova replaced it with an new older version bag, i think. Is it still possible to get a replacement for the bag. I bought the bag at another tournament so I don't have a reciept. Thanks for any information you can give.

Seth H.

Dave -

I have an Innova Tour bag that is about 4 months old since I bought it, one of the new ones that came out toward the beginning of the year. The bag has began tearing along the seams on the inside of the bag, bottom corner, drink pouches, and the seams on the straps unravelled after about 4 rounds of use. A guy at the VPO today told me he had the same problem with his bag and that Innova replaced it with an new older version bag, i think. Is it still possible to get a replacement for the bag. I bought the bag at another tournament so I don't have a reciept. Thanks for any information you can give.

Seth H.


You need to call either the West coast or East coast office and talk to someone in customer service.

the buck stops over there.

Hi Dave,

I need a little help identifying a disc I bought this past weekend. It's either a beadless Aviar or an Omega or some kind (not very familiar with Omegas) in a totally opaque day-glow yellow champion plastic. It's a San Marino mold and it looks a lot like the 2001 CE Aviar plastic. Only the weight is written on the bottom.

CE Aviar? Q Omega? Any ideas on how I can identify it?

Also, I love the new grippy opaque Champion plastic...makes for an excellent Teebird! Any chance of some Champ Orcs in that blend?

Hi Dave. the new dx spiders that are molded from the new dx blend are much stiffer than the previous blend. will the new dx plastic be used across the board or will some discs [preferably the spider] still use the softer blend? i use the spider for putting and prefer the softer plastic. I am however loving the new dx for my drivers. i fully understand you can't please everyone, but was just wondering.

I miss the softer blend. I'm hoarding small bead Aviars, the new plastic is crap. It warps so easily into shapes Aviars aren't meant to be. I'd 100% much rather have an Aviar that has taken some dings than an aviar with no dings but warped into unthrowable shapes.

Hi Dave,

I need a little help identifying a disc I bought this past weekend. It's either a beadless Aviar or an Omega or some kind (not very familiar with Omegas) in a totally opaque day-glow yellow champion plastic. It's a San Marino mold and it looks a lot like the 2001 CE Aviar plastic. Only the weight is written on the bottom.

CE Aviar? Q Omega? Any ideas on how I can identify it?

Also, I love the new grippy opaque Champion plastic...makes for an excellent Teebird! Any chance of some Champ Orcs in that blend?


Sorry, I can't help you with the ID, but it's probably not a Q Omega. Those are translucent to transparent. If it has a small bead, it might be an older CE Aviar. If it has no bead at all, it's a Star Aviar.

The newer Champion plastic will be used for heavier weight Orcs.

Hi Dave. the new dx spiders that are molded from the new dx blend are much stiffer than the previous blend. will the new dx plastic be used across the board or will some discs [preferably the spider] still use the softer blend? i use the spider for putting and prefer the softer plastic. I am however loving the new dx for my drivers. i fully understand you can't please everyone, but was just wondering.



DX Spiders are not supposed to be stiff, so you can look forward to there being softer DX Spiders in the future. The new DX can be blended soft or stiff.

any gummy star plastic on the horizon?

any gummy star plastic on the horizon?


rhynos or a mid-range similiar to the FLX plastic?

any gummy star plastic on the horizon?



Nothing is on the schedule right now, sorry.

any gummy star plastic on the horizon?



Nothing is on the schedule right now, sorry.



gummy star plastic would give Christmas more cheer ;)

What discs are available for the CFR/TFR Program that are not listed on the Innova website in the CFR Program Available Models (http://www.innovadiscs.com/cfr/products.htm) besides the Pro&Champion Destroyer?

Also, what new releases, if any, are scheduled for the next few weeks?

What discs are available for the CFR/TFR Program that are not listed on the Innova website in the CFR Program Available Models (http://www.innovadiscs.com/cfr/products.htm) besides the Pro&Champion Destroyer?

Also, what new releases, if any, are scheduled for the next few weeks?


CFR : Star Whippet X, Champion Destroyer, Star Classic Cobra.

Pro Destroyer is next new release

Any chance of a glow champ wraith, trex, or destroyer? I would buy many of these discs if produced. Thanx

Any chance of a glow champ wraith, trex, or destroyer? I would buy many of these discs if produced. Thanx



Yes. They would go into CFR, however.

Hey, thanks for getting to all the questions that are posted on here. It's way cool that you make the time :cool: The champ glow plastic is,in my opinion, the best plastic you guys make. All the other plastics are great also but for visability and durability the glow can't be beat. Hope to see some wraiths and destroyers soon, keep up the good work Dave.

Are the Japan Open Rocs from the event vendor sold with CFR certificates?

Thanks

Are the Japan Open Rocs from the event vendor sold with CFR certificates?

Thanks



I'm not sure, but I believe they come with a chance to win a round trip ticket to the Japan Open. I will ask today when we are open.

Dave,
I have a black and a gold champion cobra that were sold at the 2003 pro worlds in Arizona. I am pretty sure they are the first run of champion cobras. My question to you is...
How many blacks and how many of the golds were made?

I heard that there were 200 blacks and 100 golds made. But I wanted to hear it form you.

Dave,
I have a black and a gold champion cobra that were sold at the 2003 pro worlds in Arizona. I am pretty sure they are the first run of champion cobras. My question to you is...
How many blacks and how many of the golds were made?

I heard that there were 200 blacks and 100 golds made. But I wanted to hear it form you.



I'm pretty sure I remember hearing 190 and 110. Odd numbers though.

Dave,
I have a black and a gold champion cobra that were sold at the 2003 pro worlds in Arizona. I am pretty sure they are the first run of champion cobras. My question to you is...
How many blacks and how many of the golds were made?

I heard that there were 200 blacks and 100 golds made. But I wanted to hear it form you.



Sorry, I don't remember the number made.

Dave,

Did you ever produce some 11x kc pro rocs in special blend plastic by mistake?

There is one listed on ebay, and I just thought it sounded a little odd....

Dave,

Did you ever produce some 11x kc pro rocs in special blend plastic by mistake?

There is one listed on ebay, and I just thought it sounded a little odd....



Its a Super Roc X-Out. Zonedriven had them for a while. Its just like the super rocs for the worlds fundraisers.

But with the regular 11x roc stamp right?

HERE (http://tinyurl.com/364mr7) is the link...

Yup. I bought a few. They were 11 bucks from zonedriven

Will there be any Champion Max's in the near future?

Will there be any Champion Max's in the near future?



Not in the near future. Maybe next Spring or so.

Hey dave,
It's Scott from South Jersey Disc Golf Concepts again..
Since no one asked in a while I figured I would:
What's in your bag lately???? Haven't seen you post that in a while.

keep in touch.
-Scott Lewis

Champion Classic Rocs? Still in production? Soon to return to production? I love 'em and would be sad to see them fall by the wayside...

Hey dave,
It's Scott from South Jersey Disc Golf Concepts again..
Since no one asked in a while I figured I would:
What's in your bag lately???? Haven't seen you post that in a while.

keep in touch.
-Scott Lewis



Lately my bag has a lot of Destroyers. 2 Pro Destroyers (flyers) 1 beat Pro Destroyer (roller), 1 beat Star Destroyer, 1 Champion Destroyer, 1 Champion RR, 1 Champion Viking, 2 P1, 1 P2, 1 Star Cro, 1 Champion Coyote. I putt with the P1, approach and short drive with the P2, Cro, and Coyote, backhand roll with the RR and beat Pro Destroyer, sidearm roll with the Destroyer, tunnel and narrow fairway with the RR and Viking, long drive with Destroyers backhand and sidearm. On deck are: Champion Leopard, Champion Starfire, Star Max, and 164 gm Star Wraith.

Champion Classic Rocs? Still in production? Soon to return to production? I love 'em and would be sad to see them fall by the wayside...



We are not running Champion Classics right now. Just DX at this point.

hey dave,
thx for the quick reply. Are the Destroyers really that good? I threw a friends and I found it to be like a Faster Monster in max weight. Is this what it is supposed to be like? they definitely are faster than any other innova driver that's for sure.

On the subject of Monsters. I recently lost my Proline Monster and I'm considering replacing it with a Champ or Star monster. Are the champ and Star The same mold as the original Proline monster? I remember looking through the boards a while ago and someone had mentioned that the mold was changed? Let me know if such things are true.

-Scott Lewis

p.s. I might have a mini basket for you to try out soon Dave :)

Dave,

You might have already got to this by the time you read this...

But will you comment on this thread?HERE (http://tinyurl.com/2wwglu)

It's the one about disc color changing the flight of the disc...

I searched for a few minutes and was just going to link to where you had commented before....but I couldn't find it...

Thanks....

hey dave,
thx for the quick reply. Are the Destroyers really that good? I threw a friends and I found it to be like a Faster Monster in max weight. Is this what it is supposed to be like? they definitely are faster than any other innova driver that's for sure.

On the subject of Monsters. I recently lost my Proline Monster and I'm considering replacing it with a Champ or Star monster. Are the champ and Star The same mold as the original Proline monster? I remember looking through the boards a while ago and someone had mentioned that the mold was changed? Let me know if such things are true.

-Scott Lewis

p.s. I might have a mini basket for you to try out soon Dave :)



I wouldn't say a Destroyer is as stable as a Monster at all. Monsters hook up way ealier for me. Destroyers have a pretty good straight portion of the flight before they hook up. The attraction for me is that it is such a good sidearm disc for me, plus the beat ones roll well for me too.

We have made two different versions of Monsters. The original version was an L type. Subsequently we have run X and L types. We recently decided to run X only as these were the more stable of the two types. Star Monsters have been Ls and Champions have been X.

Dave,

You might have already got to this by the time you read this...

But will you comment on this thread?HERE (http://tinyurl.com/2wwglu)

It's the one about disc color changing the flight of the disc...

I searched for a few minutes and was just going to link to where you had commented before....but I couldn't find it...

Thanks....



Color can make a difference to the discs. If you are using one type of dry color (powder) in different colors, it probably won't make a difference which color you use unless you use large amounts of color. The more color used, the more likely it is to produce a difference in the disc. For concentrates or colors with carriers (plastic pellets); the carrier can make a difference especially if a lot of color is used. The carrier is a plastic that a concentrated pigment is put into to make color pellets. These pellets take the place of a certain amount of plastic and tend to adulterate it. If the loading percentage is 1%, it probably won't make a difference, but if it is much higher, like 4%, it certainly can. Different carriers can produce different effects also. Most of the effects are minor, but minor differences can produce differences in appearance, flight and feel for the discs.

Thx dave. I guess i'll be looking to pick up a star monster then. I don't need more overstability in my monsters as they are overstable enough for me.

-Scott Lewis

Dave,

You might have already got to this by the time you read this...

But will you comment on this thread?HERE (http://tinyurl.com/2wwglu)

It's the one about disc color changing the flight of the disc...

I searched for a few minutes and was just going to link to where you had commented before....but I couldn't find it...

Thanks....



Color can make a difference to the discs. If you are using one type of dry color (powder) in different colors, it probably won't make a difference which color you use unless you use large amounts of color. The more color used, the more likely it is to produce a difference in the disc. For concentrates or colors with carriers (plastic pellets); the carrier can make a difference especially if a lot of color is used. The carrier is a plastic that a concentrated pigment is put into to make color pellets. These pellets take the place of a certain amount of plastic and tend to adulterate it. If the loading percentage is 1%, it probably won't make a difference, but if it is much higher, like 4%, it certainly can. Different carriers can produce different effects also. Most of the effects are minor, but minor differences can produce differences in appearance, flight and feel for the discs.



So what color(s) are closest to the orignal plain plastic that would not change the flight, feel, or texture of a disc?

Hey Dave,

Do you guys currently, or did you ever, produce DX Rancho Rocs in black plastic? I've seen the reissued Ontarios in black, and I think I recall seeing a black Rancho a while back, but I'm not quite sure. If so, are they rare / hard to come by? (because I'd love to have one :D )

discgolfcenter.com has some lightweight kc pro rocs in black

That would be sweet...but I'm looking for ~175 :(

Hey Dave,

Plans are already underway here in BG for the 2008 Bowling Green Ams, which everyone knows is the world's largest disc golf tournament, and even though it's not a major I am wondering if INNOVA would consider a TFR disc for the tournament? It may seem too soon, but when you host a tournament this large you need help from all areas, including financing. Will you please consider this? Thank you!

Dave, I'm wondering when the Gator X mold will be run in Star ... anything on the schedule? Any chance these might be available by Xmas?

When and how are the Christmas stamped discs available?
Are they dealer only?

<SoapBox>
None of my business but maybe you ought to initiate a dialog with Innova in a business-like way via a phone call or email.

A public forum like this is a great place to announce a sponsorship, but a rather manipulative way to ask for one.
</SoapBox>



. . . wondering if INNOVA would consider a TFR disc for the tournament?

<SoapBox>
None of my business but maybe you ought to initiate a dialog with Innova in a business-like way via a phone call or email.

A public forum like this is a great place to announce a sponsorship, but a rather manipulative way to ask for one.
</SoapBox>



. . . wondering if INNOVA would consider a TFR disc for the tournament?





I dont know INNOVA's e-mail contact info and this is the only way I know to get through to Dave. I dont see how it's manipulative, but if you know who to contact at INNOVA about this I would greatly appreciate it.

Just got some contact info!

Dave,

You might have already got to this by the time you read this...

But will you comment on this thread?HERE (http://tinyurl.com/2wwglu)

It's the one about disc color changing the flight of the disc...

I searched for a few minutes and was just going to link to where you had commented before....but I couldn't find it...

Thanks....



Color can make a difference to the discs. If you are using one type of dry color (powder) in different colors, it probably won't make a difference which color you use unless you use large amounts of color. The more color used, the more likely it is to produce a difference in the disc. For concentrates or colors with carriers (plastic pellets); the carrier can make a difference especially if a lot of color is used. The carrier is a plastic that a concentrated pigment is put into to make color pellets. These pellets take the place of a certain amount of plastic and tend to adulterate it. If the loading percentage is 1%, it probably won't make a difference, but if it is much higher, like 4%, it certainly can. Different carriers can produce different effects also. Most of the effects are minor, but minor differences can produce differences in appearance, flight and feel for the discs.



So what color(s) are closest to the orignal plain plastic that would not change the flight, feel, or texture of a disc?



In DX plastic, white is usually not colored in addition to the weighting agent, so it would be the most natural. In Champion plastic, clear, lightly tinted, or I-dyed would be the most natural. All Star plastic is pigmented.

Hey Dave,

Do you guys currently, or did you ever, produce DX Rancho Rocs in black plastic? I've seen the reissued Ontarios in black, and I think I recall seeing a black Rancho a while back, but I'm not quite sure. If so, are they rare / hard to come by? (because I'd love to have one :D )



Yes, we make black Ranchos, but they are relatively rare.

I dont know INNOVA's e-mail contact info and this is the only way I know to get through to Dave.



private messages

Hey Dave,

Plans are already underway here in BG for the 2008 Bowling Green Ams, which everyone knows is the world's largest disc golf tournament, and even though it's not a major I am wondering if INNOVA would consider a TFR disc for the tournament? It may seem too soon, but when you host a tournament this large you need help from all areas, including financing. Will you please consider this? Thank you!



Bowling Green is definitely a worthy tourney and we will consider it. The East coast office handles sponsorship for this tourney.

Dave, I'm wondering when the Gator X mold will be run in Star ... anything on the schedule? Any chance these might be available by Xmas?



Gators are not on the schedule right now. Probably not until Spring.

When and how are the Christmas stamped discs available?
Are they dealer only?



They are not for sale. They are basically Christmas cards for our dealers/partners. They are mailed in December.

Dave,

You might have already got to this by the time you read this...

But will you comment on this thread?HERE (http://tinyurl.com/2wwglu)

It's the one about disc color changing the flight of the disc...

I searched for a few minutes and was just going to link to where you had commented before....but I couldn't find it...

Thanks....



Color can make a difference to the discs. If you are using one type of dry color (powder) in different colors, it probably won't make a difference which color you use unless you use large amounts of color. The more color used, the more likely it is to produce a difference in the disc. For concentrates or colors with carriers (plastic pellets); the carrier can make a difference especially if a lot of color is used. The carrier is a plastic that a concentrated pigment is put into to make color pellets. These pellets take the place of a certain amount of plastic and tend to adulterate it. If the loading percentage is 1%, it probably won't make a difference, but if it is much higher, like 4%, it certainly can. Different carriers can produce different effects also. Most of the effects are minor, but minor differences can produce differences in appearance, flight and feel for the discs.



So what color(s) are closest to the orignal plain plastic that would not change the flight, feel, or texture of a disc?



In DX plastic, white is usually not colored in addition to the weighting agent, so it would be the most natural. In Champion plastic, clear, lightly tinted, or I-dyed would be the most natural. All Star plastic is pigmented.



so even the white star discs are pigmented?... just curious but what would a star disc look like w/o any pigment added? Is there the possibility of a clear star disc?!

i can hear the ebayers getting psyched up already about the prospects of something like this

i don't know what the exact platic for star is but i assume its not a clear natural(i.e. nylon). prolly just a off white swirly color....

either way it'd be pretty cool to have one like that eh? even if it was cloudy and all

btw... Dave (or anyone else that might know)... what plastics does the Whippet X come in? and is this something that I can currently get from the east coast office (thru a 'distributor' of course) or is this not currently in stock?

either way it'd be pretty cool to have one like that eh? even if it was cloudy and all

btw... Dave (or anyone else that might know)... what plastics does the Whippet X come in? and is this something that I can currently get from the east coast office (thru a 'distributor' of course) or is this not currently in stock?



Whippet X comes in . . .
DX
KC Pro (which seems to me the same as DX)
Star (which are current CFR discs. You can find them on marshallstreetdiscgolf.com and probably many others)
Champion (which is hard to find and go for $50-$60 on ebay).

Most Whippets are Whippet Xs. It is hard to find old mold Whippet.

either way it'd be pretty cool to have one like that eh? even if it was cloudy and all

btw... Dave (or anyone else that might know)... what plastics does the Whippet X come in? and is this something that I can currently get from the east coast office (thru a 'distributor' of course) or is this not currently in stock?



Star can't be made clear at all. Champion can be made cloudy or opaque, but Star is always pigmented. The Whippet X is in current stock.

thanks guys!!!

I dont see how it's manipulative, [..]



Then I guess you'll just have to take my word for it.

Dave, is there anything like the acerace Innova can do?
I like the concept but never throw Discraft.(I am sponsored by our import guy to throw Innova)
Maybe you guys can sett something up like;best shot doubles but then with Innove plastic ofcourse!
Greetings from a cold Holland,
Arthur

I dont see how it's manipulative, [..]



Then I guess you'll just have to take my work for it.



I guess I'm a manipulator then.

Hey Dave,

Plans are already underway here in BG for the 2008 Bowling Green Ams, which everyone knows is the world's largest disc golf tournament, and even though it's not a major I am wondering if INNOVA would consider a TFR disc for the tournament? It may seem too soon, but when you host a tournament this large you need help from all areas, including financing. Will you please consider this? Thank you!



Bowling Green is definitely a worthy tourney and we will consider it. The East coast office handles sponsorship for this tourney.



Definitely worthy, but as of yet not taken advantage of by INNOVA. Have you seen what Discraft has done with and around this tournament. I don't throw discrap, but with publicity like that, someone could change their mind. On the other hand, if I made discs I think I would only give them free to people who can afford to buy them by the box, but only throw what's been in their bags for years. Hmmmm????

I dont see how it's manipulative, [..]



Then I guess you'll just have to take my work for it.



I guess I'm a manipulator then.



If I'm not mistaken Dave has something like a PhD in psychology...I think he can handle these things himself.

Dave,

I just read the USDGC announcement. How can you make a San Marino Roc again? I thought that ship (mold) had sailed?

Thanks,

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com

Dave,

I just read the USDGC announcement. How can you make a San Marino Roc again? I thought that ship (mold) had sailed?

Thanks,

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com




ummmmmmm........ Link Please?!?!?!?

I don't throw discrap, but with publicity like that, someone could change their mind.


Seems to me like there is a little animosity here..... Couldn't exactly hurt that rating of yours to toss a few in the bag...

He's rated higher than you are :o

Dave,

I just read the USDGC announcement. How can you make a San Marino Roc again? I thought that ship (mold) had sailed?

Thanks,

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com



WOW!!!!

Me want!! :D

He's rated higher than you are :o



Either you can't read or didn't check the right rating. :eek: :D

Dave,

I just read the USDGC announcement. How can you make a San Marino Roc again? I thought that ship (mold) had sailed?

Thanks,

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com



The original San Marino Roc is dead. This is a new one which should be almost identical. Collectors of the original needn't worry as they can easily be told apart by the engraving on the bottom.

Are the new San Marino roc going to be released like the Ontarios? Sannys would be GREAT in the new DX. And a champ would be nice too.

What announcement? :confused:

ahhh ... groovy!

Dave,

I just read the USDGC announcement. How can you make a San Marino Roc again? I thought that ship (mold) had sailed?

Thanks,

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com



URL?

Dave,

I just read the USDGC announcement. How can you make a San Marino Roc again? I thought that ship (mold) had sailed?

Thanks,

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com



The original San Marino Roc is dead. This is a new one which should be almost identical. Collectors of the original needn't worry as they can easily be told apart by the engraving on the bottom.



Big THANK YOU to everyone who made this possible!!!

Are the new San Marino roc going to be released like the Ontarios? Sannys would be GREAT in the new DX. And a champ would be nice too.



The DX will be mainstream or for custom hotstamping. The Stars and Champs will be added to the USDGC Roc program. The first testing won't happen until some time in January.

Are the new San Marino roc going to be released like the Ontarios? Sannys would be GREAT in the new DX. And a champ would be nice too.



The DX will be mainstream or for custom hotstamping. The Stars and Champs will be added to the USDGC Roc program. The first testing won't happen until some time in January.



Stupid question nr 1: Which SM Rocs are "coming back to life", I suppose you mean the large diameter?

Thanks Dave -- a 21st century resurrection of the San Marino Roc is very welcome news! Am I right to think the original stopped being made before the year 2000?

Are the new San Marino roc going to be released like the Ontarios? Sannys would be GREAT in the new DX. And a champ would be nice too.



The DX will be mainstream or for custom hotstamping. The Stars and Champs will be added to the USDGC Roc program. The first testing won't happen until some time in January.



Stupid question nr 1: Which SM Rocs are "coming back to life", I suppose you mean the large diameter?



Yes, but both will be available at some point.

Thanks Dave -- a 21st century resurrection of the San Marino Roc is very welcome news! Am I right to think the original stopped being made before the year 2000?



Yes, probably around 1995.

Dave,

Thanks for the great info I find it really interesting. I'm just curious. Why was the Rancho mold different from the San Marino mold?

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com

Dave,

Thanks for the great info I find it really interesting. I'm just curious. Why was the Rancho mold different from the San Marino mold?

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com



We overbuilt (extra over stability) the Cucamonga slightly to cater to the Pros. At the time, we never considered remaking the San Marino. Jonathan Poole suggested it recently and it sounded like a good idea to me.

Dave, is there anything like the acerace Innova can do?
I like the concept but never throw Discraft.(I am sponsored by our import guy to throw Innova)
Maybe you guys can sett something up like;best shot doubles but then with Innove plastic ofcourse!
Greetings from a cold Holland,
Arthur



Dave I don't know if you missed this question but please please answer .

Dave, is there anything like the acerace Innova can do?
I like the concept but never throw Discraft.(I am sponsored by our import guy to throw Innova)
Maybe you guys can sett something up like;best shot doubles but then with Innove plastic ofcourse!
Greetings from a cold Holland,
Arthur



Dave I don't know if you missed this question but please please answer .



Thanks for you input. Contact [email protected]

Dave, is there anything like the acerace Innova can do?
I like the concept but never throw Discraft.(I am sponsored by our import guy to throw Innova)
Maybe you guys can sett something up like;best shot doubles but then with Innove plastic ofcourse!
Greetings from a cold Holland,
Arthur



Dave I don't know if you missed this question but please please answer .



Thanks for your input. Please contact [email protected]

"Missing a shot is not the worst thing in disc golf. Not taking a shot because you're afraid to miss, is. "

Hi Dave,
Is this quote and attempt to improve sales due to people throwing discs in the water? :D

Dave,

Thanks for the great info I find it really interesting. I'm just curious. Why was the Rancho mold different from the San Marino mold?

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com



We overbuilt (extra over stability) the Cucamonga slightly to cater to the Pros. At the time, we never considered remaking the San Marino. Jonathan Poole suggested it recently and it sounded like a good idea to me.



Props to you and JP then, it sounds like a great idea.

Jerry
DiscGolfCenter.com

Dave,
I have a dyed Champion Eagle (170g). I love this disc for long striaght drives. I have thrown other Eagles in every type of plastic (DX, KC Pro, Star) but everything seems to be more overstable. The only thing I can come up with is that I am throwing an Eagle "L" Could this be? If so, does anyone know where I can find some Eagle L's or something similar. My game would go down a notch if I lost that disc.

I've recently come across some Pro(regular pro by appearance) that have the stamp of the Pro/Champ Firebirds. These have the "Proline" stamp with the "F" the same size as the other letters as opposed to the later regular Pro plastic the has a larger "F". These are Oqaque like the regular pro plastic and not transparent like the Champ/Pro edition. Was there an initial run of the regular Pro plastic prior to the stamp change? Just curious about where these fit - One in Red, Yellow & white ( another friend has one in white also).

Steve, glow EL still listed on Innova CFR program. http://www.innovadiscs.com/cfr/products.htm
contact addy's from this link

I've recently come across some Pro(regular pro by appearance) that have the stamp of the Pro/Champ Firebirds. These have the "Proline" stamp with the "F" the same size as the other letters as opposed to the later regular Pro plastic the has a larger "F". These are Oqaque like the regular pro plastic and not transparent like the Champ/Pro edition. Was there an initial run of the regular Pro plastic prior to the stamp change? Just curious about where these fit - One in Red, Yellow & white ( another friend has one in white also).



Yes, there was an initial run or two of Pro Firebirds. The first run was domey and a little flippy, if I recall correctly. "Proline" was not supposed to be in the name; just "Pro".

Dave, are the champion and star san marino rocs going to go as fast as the ontarios of 2007 or will i actually get a chance to buy one for a decent price? in other words....how many do you think will be made??

Dave, are the champion and star san marino rocs going to go as fast as the ontarios of 2007 or will i actually get a chance to buy one for a decent price? in other words....how many do you think will be made??



I really don't know. That is up to the USDGC committee. It will depend on how well they mold up and fly. I would imagine they will be at least 1/4 of the total if not more.

Dave, I put with a Discmania P1 and it says Innova on the back. What Innova disc is this most like? The feel of the plastic is much like glow but not as flexy.

Dave,

Will the New San Marino Rocs fly at all like the legendary ones of yore? I thought the key to the magic of the San Marino days, besides the nostalgia effect, was the �ber-hard shin-breaking and head-bustin' old school DX plastic that isn't around anymore.

Have you done any test shots and test flights yet? Is it even close?

Thanks.

Excited about the San Marino's like everyone else.

Heard a rumor that 150class Champ Roadrunners would be run with the next batch of Roadrunners. Any truth to that? Thanks so much.

Dave,

I have some dx Rocs marked SA. They have a full color maceman stamp on them. They are engraved with Ontario, but they look exactly like my brick hard Sanny that Rhett just referred to. It could be due to the full-color stamping process. The wing looks different than all the other Ontarios I have, again exactly like my San Marino.

Have you experimented with the mold already? Is it possible I have one?

Thanks,
Cary

Will the Rancho mold be discontinued? In what ways will we be able to differentiate the two molds(Rancho vs San Marino). Will the hotstamp be different, etc?

I would be crushed if Rancho Rocs would be hard to find in the future.

Thanks.

Dave, I put with a Discmania P1 and it says Innova on the back. What Innova disc is this most like? The feel of the plastic is much like glow but not as flexy.



P1 is basically a beadless P&A with a different plastic.

Dave,

Will the New San Marino Rocs fly at all like the legendary ones of yore? I thought the key to the magic of the San Marino days, besides the nostalgia effect, was the �ber-hard shin-breaking and head-bustin' old school DX plastic that isn't around anymore.

Have you done any test shots and test flights yet? Is it even close?

Thanks.



It is being tooled right now. It probably won't be shot until January. It should fly the same as the original regardless of which plastic we use, but we will have to see.

Excited about the San Marino's like everyone else.

Heard a rumor that 150class Champ Roadrunners would be run with the next batch of Roadrunners. Any truth to that? Thanks so much.



At this point in time we are having difficult time producing light weights. I doubt we will be able to make 150 Champ Roadrunners.

Dave,

I have some dx Rocs marked SA. They have a full color maceman stamp on them. They are engraved with Ontario, but they look exactly like my brick hard Sanny that Rhett just referred to. It could be due to the full-color stamping process. The wing looks different than all the other Ontarios I have, again exactly like my San Marino.

Have you experimented with the mold already? Is it possible I have one?

Thanks,
Cary



If the engraving says Ontario, it is not a San Marino. We have not experimented with the mold as we don't have it yet.

Will the Rancho mold be discontinued? In what ways will we be able to differentiate the two molds(Rancho vs San Marino). Will the hotstamp be different, etc?

I would be crushed if Rancho Rocs would be hard to find in the future.

Thanks.



Rancho Rocs will continue to be produced as before. Right now, the only San Marinos will be DX for custom hot stamping, and Champion/Star for USDGC/EDGE

Dave I have three or four CFR program entry forms laying around that I received with this years USDGC Roc my question is do you guys ship to APO addresses if I win or would it be better to put my parents stateside address on there?

Thanks Dave for all you do.

Dave,

I have a KC 12x Star Wraith that is almost clear. When you hold it up to a light you can read text through it. Is this because Champion plastic was mixed in with the Star? If so, why? Thanks.

Dave I have three or four CFR program entry forms laying around that I received with this years USDGC Roc my question is do you guys ship to APO addresses if I win or would it be better to put my parents stateside address on there?

Thanks Dave for all you do.



If it were a small prize (disc or dvd), we could ship it to an APO. If it were a big prize like a basket we couldn't do it as we use UPS.

Dave,

I have a KC 12x Star Wraith that is almost clear. When you hold it up to a light you can read text through it. Is this because Champion plastic was mixed in with the Star? If so, why? Thanks.



Star is a mixture that is usually opaque, but sometimes translucent in reds and some blues. Also, some transition discs might be mixed Star and Champion.

So, now that my order is in...
How are the Glow CFR Wraith's flying?
And how many is a very limited run if I may ask?
Thanks for making these. I can't wait to get my hands on them.

So, now that my order is in...
How are the Glow CFR Wraith's flying?
And how many is a very limited run if I may ask?
Thanks for making these. I can't wait to get my hands on them.



Sorry, I haven't thrown them. There were about 2000 made.

Starting to run the Star Ontario Rocs for tournaments. The first batch will be a softish grippy Star plastic. Flight testing went very well.

You mean like TFR??? Ontarios???? OMG my life just became complete

You mean like TFR??? Ontarios???? OMG my life just became complete



Yes, regular tournaments.

To anyone who can answer:
What are the champion plastic with a star stamp TL's?
TFR, CFR, Last run CE? How many were made? For what Tournament? etc......

To anyone who can answer:
What are the champion plastic with a star stamp TL's?
TFR, CFR, Last run CE? How many were made? For what Tournament? etc......



Maybe a first run sidewinder? I've never seen star stamped champion TLs, but the sidewinder mold looks very close. Does it say TL on the underside?

I've got one of them. its the big star stamp like on the first run Teerex and destroyers. And yes, it is a TL

I have a Question about the Tournament Fund Raisers Certificate of Authenticity.

Did all discs that go out as TFRs Get Certificates with them? The onlt reason I asked is that I have bought 4 Champion destroyers from a tournament and didnt recieve any certificates but i just bought one off of Ebay and recieved one of the Certificates with it....Is there something fishy going on with these Certificates that I dont know about?

I have a Question about the Tournament Fund Raisers Certificate of Authenticity.

Did all discs that go out as TFRs Get Certificates with them? The onlt reason I asked is that I have bought 4 Champion destroyers from a tournament and didnt recieve any certificates but i just bought one off of Ebay and recieved one of the Certificates with it....Is there something fishy going on with these Certificates that I dont know about?



The original release of Champion Destroyers with the So Cal, Masters, Retro Star, Bar and Football stamps were not issued with certificates.

Also, not all sellers on eBay pass along the certificates. You should ask about certificates when bidding if it is important to you.

I have a Question about the Tournament Fund Raisers Certificate of Authenticity.

Did all discs that go out as TFRs Get Certificates with them? The onlt reason I asked is that I have bought 4 Champion destroyers from a tournament and didnt recieve any certificates but i just bought one off of Ebay and recieved one of the Certificates with it....Is there something fishy going on with these Certificates that I dont know about?



The original release of Champion Destroyers with the So Cal, Masters, Retro Star, Bar and Football stamps were not issued with certificates.

Also, not all sellers on eBay pass along the certificates. You should ask about certificates when bidding if it is important to you.




I understand about the Ebay one but what about the 4 that I picked up @ a tournament? Should I get certificates for those?

I understand about the Ebay one but what about the 4 that I picked up @ a tournament? Should I get certificates for those?



You should ask the TD if they do not have one of the stamps mentioned above.

speaking of CFRs...

Dave... did you guys up the max weight for this one?! .5 lbs?! thats like 225grams!!! ;)

http://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/index.php?p=product&id=556&parent=0

To anyone who can answer:
What are the champion plastic with a star stamp TL's?
TFR, CFR, Last run CE? How many were made? For what Tournament? etc......



Champion TL's with the Star stamp I think are special runs that come in the TD's pack for tournaments. At least I saw 5 or 6 in the TD's pack for the last tournament I helped with.

HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/Innova-CE-Champion-Edition-Teebird-L-Disc-Golf-175G_W0QQitemZ260190035403QQihZ016QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is one that's available, they look sweet!!!

<start commercial>
crazy how much stuff DD has... i'm learning if theres a disc I want (from any manufacturer) that they've got it.

THROW SOME D's ON IT!

<end commercial>

Hey Dave,

I love the new black 12x KC Pro Aviars...probably the best "straight from the rack" putter I've ever used. Flat and grippy, almost tacky...perfect. Do you plan on running these for a long time, or is this a limited thing? I'm looking to get some more, but almost everyone sells out very quickly (at least in the higher weights) and I'm just wondering how much time I've got :D

Thanks!

Hey Dave,

I love the new black 12x KC Pro Aviars...probably the best "straight from the rack" putter I've ever used. Flat and grippy, almost tacky...perfect. Do you plan on running these for a long time, or is this a limited thing? I'm looking to get some more, but almost everyone sells out very quickly (at least in the higher weights) and I'm just wondering how much time I've got :D

Thanks!



We won't be running those again for a while. We will do black again when we do run.

Hey Dave,

I love the new black 12x KC Pro Aviars...probably the best "straight from the rack" putter I've ever used. Flat and grippy, almost tacky...perfect. Do you plan on running these for a long time, or is this a limited thing? I'm looking to get some more, but almost everyone sells out very quickly (at least in the higher weights) and I'm just wondering how much time I've got :D

Thanks!



Depends on how soon KC wins #13! ;)

Any chance of a champion or star Sonic being made?

A SuperHero (http://www.herodiscusa.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=78) is pretty much a light Champion Sonic.

Any chance of a champion or star Sonic being made?



Right after a Star Polecat. :D

Thanks Vegan but I'm looking for something heavy (175g). I hate utlra light discs.

As for the other comment, i don't mean to be rude but next time try and say something constructive. Not to mention this is ask Dave D not ask Mark Stubbs :D

what about a Champion Birdie?

Never liked those much either they still fade a little in at the end..i just really like the sonic mold. Wouldn't mind having one just to have one though

As for the other comment, i don't mean to be rude but next time try and say something constructive.



<font color="red">"Something Constructive" </font>
<font color="green">Happy Holidays! </font>

Any chance of a champion or star Sonic being made?



Yes, both Star Sonics and Super Sonics will be made. Both of these are going to be light weight for the dog market. These will be lighter than the Super Hero and Hero Star.

Thanks Vegan but I'm looking for something heavy (175g). I hate utlra light discs.

As for the other comment, i don't mean to be rude but next time try and say something constructive. Not to mention this is ask Dave D not ask Mark Stubbs :D



We will test it in heavier weights, but right now, we don't have any plans for a heavy production run in Star or Champion.

what about a Champion Birdie?


I have one. DGV was selling them as CFR last year, if I remember correctly.

Any chance of a champion or star Sonic being made?



Yes, both Star Sonics and Super Sonics will be made. Both of these are going to be light weight for the dog market. These will be lighter than the Super Hero and Hero Star.



Are you going to make heavier Star Sonics also? or just all lightweight?

Anyone know where to get the black KC Aviar's? Marshall street has them, but I think the heaviest is 169.

Dave, have you ever ran jk aviars in black?

Are you going to make heavier Star Sonics also? or just all lightweight?



Testing only for now.

Anyone know where to get the black KC Aviar's? Marshall street has them, but I think the heaviest is 169.

Dave, have you ever ran jk aviars in black?



I don't believe we have run anything other than white, yellow, and blue in JKs, at least in any quantities at all.

I have a orangish/pinkish 4 times jk that is flippy enough to bend it over and touch one side of it to the other and flips back perfectly in position. One of my favorite putters but every other 4 time I have picked up is pretty stiff and way more stable. Anyone have an extra of the extra soft 4 times jk pro aviars? If so, I have a lot to trade for them or I can pay, either way....

must be rare then (kinda) but I have a mint green 5xJK

Hyper-floppy orange 4x's are sweet. I have a 150g one (my "rubber baby") that comes in quite handy. Gave all 3 of my heavy ones to Mark Boyce, though, in exchange for 3x's.

I have a new Pair of the 4x Orange ones that are very flexible.

Dave,

Any chance of making heavy weight Condors again?

Or make some Star Condors...David Greenwell signature series!!! :eek: How many years does he have to win before he get's a signature disc? :D

That would be sweet...maybe some star condors possibly

Dave,

Any chance of making heavy weight Condors again?

Or make some Star Condors...David Greenwell signature series!!! :eek: How many years does he have to win before he get's a signature disc? :D




Greenwell can't touch Wilchek's Condor shot.

Dave,

Were November CFR winners picked yet? It still is on October on the website.

Just curious. Thank you

Josh

Dave,

Were November CFR winners picked yet? It still is on October on the website.

Just curious. Thank you

Josh



Yes, I have been informed that they have been picked.

Dave,

Any chance of making heavy weight Condors again?

Or make some Star Condors...David Greenwell signature series!!! :eek: How many years does he have to win before he get's a signature disc? :D




Greenwell can't touch Wilchek's Condor shot.



Ahhhh�Dave introduced the Condor to Don. BUT Don introduced the Thumb Roller to Dave.

Hi Dave. Long time reader, first time...

My question concerns DX Eagle-X's. How many different rim configurations are there?

I thought there were only X and L, but I just received a couple DX Eagle-X's from an online retailer with a concave rim that is missing the notch of my other Eagle-X's. Could you tell me what version it is?

Thanks in advance,
Pete

Hi Dave. Long time reader, first time...

My question concerns DX Eagle-X's. How many different rim configurations are there?

I thought there were only X and L, but I just received a couple DX Eagle-X's from an online retailer with a concave rim that is missing the notch of my other Eagle-X's. Could you tell me what version it is?

Thanks in advance,
Pete



There are only two versions. The original L and the subsequent X. It is possible that some molding aberration caused the difference. Excessive sink (shrinkage) in the beveled area of the rim could possibly make the L look like an X. I have no other explanation.

Any chance of a star or champion CFR Hammer in the future, is the mold still around?

The molds still exist. The classic 175 and the 180, but we have no plans to make any more at this time.

Any chance of a champion or star Sonic being made?



Yes, both Star Sonics and Super Sonics will be made. Both of these are going to be light weight for the dog market. These will be lighter than the Super Hero and Hero Star.



Morning Dave. Will this disc also have MTA potential???
:eek: :D

Any chance of a champion or star Sonic being made?



Yes, both Star Sonics and Super Sonics will be made. Both of these are going to be light weight for the dog market. These will be lighter than the Super Hero and Hero Star.



Morning Dave. Will this disc also have MTA potential???
:eek: :D



Hey Rob,
I have no clue. Haven't tried it for MTA. The main consideration was the dog market. Secondary was Disc Golf. Never even thought about MTA or TRC, sorry. But, to opine; I don't think it will be anything special for MTA.

which pro avair is the P&amp;A mold?

Hi Dave i'm not sure if this was ever brought up but... the 11x KC Rocs with the dimple top i heard were re-tooled 8x rocs. Is there any truth to this? by comparing mine to a 8x it seems the bottom half from the seam is identical to the 8x and from the seam up (nose part also same) it is somewhat more domey but that quarter size dimple seems to flatten it up some to be comparable to the 8x's flatness... thanks

Hi Dave--I think i remember you saying you had a few more speed 12 discs that you were going to make, are any of them going to be less stable than the destroyer? also, will you be making any discs with a wider rim than the destroyer? lastly, will you be making dx destroyers? 150-165 dx destroyers? thanks again--steven

Hey dave,
was browsing through the Innova site and noticed that the Pro Review for the Aero is Larry Leanord. The link to his page is a dead link as he is no longer a team member. just wanted to let you know.

also shouldn't the KC pro aviar be a 2-3-0-2 rating instead of the 2-3-0-1 rating it has on the site? i thought the jk and kc were of the same stability, both being more overstable than the P&amp;A.

-Scott Lewis

does the jk aviar-x accept dye well?

does the jk aviar-x accept dye well?



no

Hi Dave i'm not sure if this was ever brought up but... the 11x KC Rocs with the dimple top i heard were re-tooled 8x rocs. Is there any truth to this? by comparing mine to a 8x it seems the bottom half from the seam is identical to the 8x and from the seam up (nose part also same) it is somewhat more domey but that quarter size dimple seems to flatten it up some to be comparable to the 8x's flatness... thanks



I'm not sure how to answer, but if the engraving on the bottom says Rancho, they're rancho. If the engraving says Ontario....The 8X might have been Ontario type, I doubt that the 11X were. I seem to remember that the 10x had both types. Whether they are domey or not is dependent on the molding more so than the mold, unless you are comparing Ontario with Rancho. In that case, the Ontario are generally more domey than the Rancho.

Hi Dave--I think i remember you saying you had a few more speed 12 discs that you were going to make, are any of them going to be less stable than the destroyer? also, will you be making any discs with a wider rim than the destroyer? lastly, will you be making dx destroyers? 150-165 dx destroyers? thanks again--steven



I already tried two 12X versions and neither was any good IMO. I will be trying two more versions in the coming weeks. On more stable and one less. I will be trying DX again later. The first try was interesting but not compelling, so we didn't run them. I don't want to make any wider rimmed discs, but it depends on what the technical standards committee comes up with as a standard.

Hey dave,
was browsing through the Innova site and noticed that the Pro Review for the Aero is Larry Leanord. The link to his page is a dead link as he is no longer a team member. just wanted to let you know.

also shouldn't the KC pro aviar be a 2-3-0-2 rating instead of the 2-3-0-1 rating it has on the site? i thought the jk and kc were of the same stability, both being more overstable than the P&amp;A.

-Scott Lewis



Thanks for the catches Scott

Might be a stupid questiion but when I picture a molding machine for some reason I picture a machine that can ony mold one disc at a time. I doubt that it the case. How many do you mold at once, im assuming the plastic has to harden in the mold for a while.

Dave,

I'm reposting this question because it seems that you missed me. :)

Any chance of making heavy weight Condors again?

Or how about the chances of making some Star Condors...David Greenwell signature series!!!

How many years does he have to win before he get's a signature disc? :)

Might be a stupid questiion but when I picture a molding machine for some reason I picture a machine that can ony mold one disc at a time. I doubt that it the case. How many do you mold at once, im assuming the plastic has to harden in the mold for a while.



We have had multiple cavity molds in the past, but they turned out to be too technically difficult to run. All of our molds produce one disc at a time. One mold to a machine.

Dave,

I'm reposting this question because it seems that you missed me. :)

Any chance of making heavy weight Condors again?

Or how about the chances of making some Star Condors...David Greenwell signature series!!!

How many years does he have to win before he get's a signature disc? :)



We may or may not make another run of heavy Condors in any plastic. Sales don't warrant its continuation.

Dave do you guys ever plan on making a champion SL?

They did and it went into CFR