Since I cannot get a response from the forum moderator about the dead pages at the end of this thread, I figured I would just start a new one. I am sick and tired of always having to look for the last posts to answer the questions.

When users were lost during the great message board crashes of 2005, they lost their posts. If PDGA didn't know a user was accidently deleted then those missing posts will never come back.

I think that since the # posts per page is not static, the ghost pages will remain.

Dave, is there any possibility any premie Odysseys will be made and if so -- could you sell me one? :D i think it would be really cool to have an MTA disc with that design... it seems custom made for the modified FU grip -- my grip of choice.

I'm curious about what you mean by premie? I've just never heard this term applied to a disc.

REALLY REALLY light. Like 100g. :D

Hey Scooter ,

Heard about the Owl and the Bat ?

The old glow stick discs? :confused:

Some new Manufacturer I just seen in a disc comparison article/chart produced by Marshall Street Disc Golf.

It also lists alot of other golf plastic.

Well those two discs have been out for along time. I am going to look at the other ones right now though. :D

Dave, do you guys still make the VERY FIRM Glow Wizards? I have one that is stiff as a brick (and pretty overstable). It is great for drives and I am actually using it as my main putter too. I may need to get a couple backups if you still make them. I have had this one a couple years so I wasn't sure.

I want an overmolded oddesy Mini. :D

Wow,
A new thread and so many questions already.
We will be making minis soon, I'm sure some will be over molded and some will have dimples, replicating our golf discs for promotional.

We are out of the really firm Glow Wizards but are just getting ready for our big Wizard run for the summer, Ill make sure there is a wide range of flexibilities of the Glow Wizards.

Thare are some 130ish Odyseeys, We could probably get that disc down to 110 or so, but I'm not sure they would make a very good MTA.
We have an approach Odyssey that does not have as deep of a rim and is stabl;e at low speeds and a bit understable when thrown hard. Proabaly our best all around beginner disc and great for schools as most are soft on the rim.

The owl and the bat are made by fly-by-nite.
I had a deal worked out to mold their discs for them but they couldnt get the mold until they sold 2500 discs.

This thread is already so much better as I do not have to look for the last posts anymore /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Whats the time table for the next big illusion run?

We will be making minis soon, I'm sure some will be over molded and some will have dimples, replicating our golf discs for promotional.



I'm interested in the details on these. I emailed you a week ago or so asking some questions about mini's. I'm still interested in talking about it when you get the time. Any idea when you might start making some?

Whats the time table for the next big illusion run?



You know how you are a little ticked no one is anwering your question on another thread about anyone throwing the lat 64 stuff, well.....When are you running more Illusions? How many times do we need to post this question? We only ask so much because we all want to send you money and buy some. Please respond. Sorry if this sounds a little gruff, but it's my main driver.

Hi David,
I "paypaled" you 30 bucks on the 23th of march for two Odyssey protos (Which I have not arrived yet?), is it sent?
Was it enough for shipping overseas (I�m thinking of order soem Screams also)?

Whats the time table for the next big illusion run?



You know how you are a little ticked no one is anwering your question on another thread about anyone throwing the lat 64 stuff, well.....When are you running more Illusions? How many times do we need to post this question? We only ask so much because we all want to send you money and buy some. Please respond. Sorry if this sounds a little gruff, but it's my main driver.



Well I do know that the illusions are going to be run in the near future, I mostly posted the question since it was unanswered on the other thread before. The key here was tracking down the right plastic and a large amount of it at that to make them and I think Dave was able to do this.

What mold are you looking for Mark?

I recieved my wizard special today and was amazed at the turn around (ordered it mid-friday last week). A little disappionted i didn't get a hard one (asked for it in the comments) <shrug> but o well. 2 of them were black soft ones. they feel great like innovas dx. i know this has been answered in the old thread but i don't feel like searching for it; whats with the difference with the black plastic vs all the other colors?
Also one of the discs wasn't marked with the firmness of the plastic. is there a way i could figure it out? it kinda feels like my medium but the white softs i have are similar too.

We used our most of our Illusion plastic sample to run some screm DT's.
Looked and felt great, the weight seemed like it was low enough to work in the Illusion mold, but we like to get a little H in with the E like we have been doing for the last 3 years for the Grip and feel for most of our Evolution Pro- Line (You know like the "NEW" star stuff :eek:)

When we geared up this mornning, I went ahead and started to run the Wizards, we are almost out of all flexibilities of "S" as well as E, especially in max weight.
We are still running them right now( Supersofts) and will for 72-90 hours straight, which should give us about 5,000 ( that should last us for about a month), so I'm guessing the illsuions could be ran late on friday, if we arent too burnt out by then.

M100,
We ship overseas stuff by post office and sometimes we just cant get there everyday and occasionally it takes a week ( sorry about that)
Ive tried very hard to pick up a Eurpoean distributor, but everyone wants an exclusive but doesnt want to buy enough of the products to make it worth my while! :(
I will check with justin to see if it went out.

If anyone has a question on a pending order they should direct it to Justin at office@gdstour.com or call the shop 314 487 5204. My UMPTEEN jobs include just about everything but shipping the discs, except some of the overseas stuff.

As far as flexibility in putters goes, one mans soft is another mans medium. super soft and soft will break in much more than medium after some flexing and with some normal use, but the medium will stay medium and the firm will stay firm.
The moral to this story is;; if you have a soft and want it more flexible, just work it in around the rim, same goes for super soft.
We have a 95 thusandths thick section right before the rim at the shoulder which allows all wizards to maintain the overall shape no matter how flexible they become. Its the biggest difference in our putters over other brands! That and the plastic blends is what puts the seperation on our competion and why its so hard to go back to your old putter once you fully incorporate the wizard in the lineup! :cool:

M100,
We ship overseas stuff by post office and sometimes we just cant get there everyday and occasionally it takes a week ( sorry about that)
Ive tried very hard to pick up a Eurpoean distributor, but everyone wants an exclusive but doesnt want to buy enough of the products to make it worth my while! :(
I will check with justin to see if it went out.





Ok, David, it�s ok, send me a pm when you sent/send it, an dlet me know if 30 is ok. I�ll order some proto Screams shortly, do you have an proto Scream DT to sell?

The market is kind of small here compared here in comparision with the States, that could be the reason, well anyway good luck with the Quest-discs!

We ( Gateway Quest) just got approval for 6 new discs.
Thats 9 in less than 2 weeks is that some sort of record?


Brian, Steve, and others,

Quest Applied Technologies recently submitted the Scream DT, Scream DT Max, Scream DT Ultra, Odyssey Putter, Odyssey Approach & Putter for PDGA testing. They also resubmitted the Odyssey Driver, a disc that had previously failed the flexibility test. All of these discs were found to comply with PDGA requirements, so they have been added to the list of PDGA-approved discs (attached Excel file). The PDGA logo and "PDGA Approved" are now permitted for use by the manufacturer in association with these products. Test measurements are listed below.

Odyssey Driver
Certification No.: 06-17
Outside diameter: 21.3 cm
Height: 2.5. cm
Rim depth: 1.5 cm
Rim thickness: 2.3 cm
Inside rim diameter: 16.8 cm
Flexibility rating: 6.01 kg
Rim configuration rating: 27.0
Maximum weight allowed: 176.8 g

Scream DT
Certification No.: 06-18
Outside diameter: 21.1 cm
Height: 2.5 cm
Rim depth: 1.3 cm
Rim thickness: 2.1 cm
Inside rim diameter: 16.8 cm
Flexibility rating: 9.64 kg
Rim configuration rating: 26.0
Maximum weight allowed: 175.1 g

Odyssey Putter
Certification No.: 06-19
Outside diameter: 21.2 cm
Height: 2.6 cm
Rim depth: 1.5 cm
Rim thickness: 1.1 cm
Inside rim diameter: 19.0 cm
Flexibility rating: 6.12 kg
Rim configuration rating: 54.0
Maximum weight allowed: 176.0 g

Scream DT Max
Certification No.: 06-20
Outside diameter: 21.3 cm
Height: 1.7 cm
Rim depth: 1.3 cm
Rim thickness: 2.3 cm
Inside rim diameter: 16.8 cm
Flexibility rating: 7.03 kg
Rim configuration rating: 31.25
Maximum weight allowed: 176.8 g

Scream DT Ultra
Certification No.: 06-21
Outside diameter: 21.4 cm
Height: 1.6 cm
Rim depth: 1.3 cm
Rim thickness: 2.2 cm
Inside rim diameter: 17.0 cm
Flexibility rating: 5.90 kg
Rim configuration rating: 29.0
Maximum weight allowed: 177.6 g

Odyssey Approach & Putter
Certification No.: 06-22
Outside diameter: 21.5 cm
Height: 2.3 cm
Rim depth: 1.2 cm
Rim thickness: 1.7 cm
Inside rim diameter: 18.1 cm
Flexibility rating: 4.88 kg
Rim configuration rating: 34.75
Maximum weight allowed: 178.5 g


Discontinuously,
Jeff Homburg (#1025)
PDGA Tech Standards Chair

Hey Dave, are you guys running any beadless wizards in this huge wizzard run?

Dave (or any Gateway fan),

I want to try out a few Gateway discs, and would like some advice on which molds to start with. These are my core discs, the ones I use for probably 90% of my shots:

Champ Teebird
SB Orc
X Wasp
Wizard - Soft

I LOVE Wizards. The only other Gateway mold I've thrown is the Speed Demon (H). I am leaning towards starting off with an Illusion, a Sabre, and an Element-X, but any suggestions would be appreciated!

The Illusion E and Sabre E are 2 really good disc.

Hoon,
The choices youve made are accurate for the models you are using. While they are similar in ways they would compliment your existing 3 discs.
We are running Wizards now and should be geting to the E and H illusions once we are done.
We did run some "S" illusions that Justind Bunnell said are just as good as any of the E or H.
They are in a H/S type blend that feel great in the hand if you like a medium firm feel.
They are awesome for rolling.

Champ Teebird = E-Hybrid
SB Orc = E or H Illusion (Maybe a touch more overstable than the SB Orc
X Wasp = E-Element X

I have one of the S/H Illusions and they are sweet. Super Grip and Super fast.

Joe is yours from the most recent run with the Illusion stamp?

hey david is there anyway i can add a pair of those mesh shorts to my last order?....i just realized that you all had them.

Dave...the one that I have, has no stamp on it. It is super sweet though. Love how grippy it is.

Are the midnight soft wizards going to be available for good? or are they limited?
I'm loving the one that I got.

We just ran some super softs and I know we have some mediums.
We should have some softs by the time we are done rnning the wizards.

The Scream freakin Bombs. I was chinkin those things big today and shot my personal best on the Powell today in H-town. Ok I'm off to play some night golf. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dave - I have one of those S/H Illusions with a blue Illusion stamp on it and it does seem to go 20-30 feet past my other 3 s illusions. The wing is a little puffy like the E illusion I have and you are right, the two fly almost identically. Only problem is that I reached for my Scream today more than my illusion...What a killer disc!

Are you gonna make any more Screams in that grippy, green and gray swirl plastic that the quest guys had at Fairfield??? Mine was broken in just right and then it was brutally run over by several fast moving cars after a horrible throw. :mad:

We have a few of those protos and should be running some regular screams in the E wednesday and Thursday.

I have been playing around with the Scream DT's in the E ( yellow and clear)
The can really get out there with minimum effort.
I need to get t a big field and throw some 360's to see just how far they will fly.

Dave -

Just checking if you will have a basket for me to take back this upcoming weekend?

I should be getting in sometime thursday night and probably will be playing a few courses on friday and will probably give you a call to come by the shop sometime also.

Cant wait to throw some of these new molds

dave...i answered your latitude 64 questions in full this time on their thread last night
keith

I throw E Spirits, but all the ones I have were molded several years ago, so I was wondering what the newer runs were like, especially in terms of plastic. I have a couple of the pea-greens and they are pretty durable, but still are prone to breaking in too fast if they experience a really hard donk. I use this disc as my overstable distance driver, so I prefer they remain overstable. A new Spirit is still a much better headwind driver than a T-Rex or Flick imo.

What Gateway disc makes a good distance roller? I have tried the Sabre, I was having problems getting it down, I throw more of an air roller, try to set the disc down around 75 feet or further, I am thinking about trying an E illusion, but I think it will take some breaking in to really work out.

I really like the S Hybrid for shorter control rollers.

I personally find the H illusion or a beat E illusion to be great distance rollers, also abeat E Spirit rolls Long

The H-Illusion is the best disc for rolling in the Gateway lineup, in my humble opinion. With just a little bit of flexing, this thing rolls forever. The E-Illusion when it beats in is pretty good too. The S-Sabre is really easy to roll though too.

For shorter controlled rolls, I have used an S-Element.

I kinda figured the illusion would be the call, Problem is as durable as the plastic is, I think I would have to intentionally abuse the disc to get it beat enough, (man that is a rough problem to have = frisbee lasts to long) :D

The H-Illusion doesn't need to be beat to crap. Just flex it at 12 and 6 as well as 9 and 3 for a few minutes. It will dome up quite a bit and be easy to roll.

I will try that, I have an H that has already taken a few hits...

I use an S Illusion for my rollers

Yeah i agree, I personally use the S illusion for my long distance rollers. The new Bright Orange S illusions are money right now, they are a little stiffer and firmer and make as great rollers or drivers.

This one I have actually had since November of last year and it�s a 168 g I�m able to throw it with hyzer and get some monster turnover. I know that I have had a couple of 500 and had 1 600ft roller with it. This is one disc that I know I can go to when I need some big D because I�m also able to throw for distance. I got some about a week ago that a 169 so I think once these get beat in like that they will also be rollers.

Chris,
Did you get with Justin for some discs and to try out someof the new Scream series

Dave, I havent yet, should I just email him or what? Thanks

Dave, I just went ahead and emailed him to take care of it, Thanks again

Chris,
Can you type your profile info in the docs I sent and send them back?

Chris...I will need them as well.

Dave, did you get my email about probably not being able to make the trip to St. Louis this year? Man I'm still so mad about that too. On another note I'm going out to the football field today to throw the screams and Illusions some more gnat permitting

Dave, I sent the docs the other day but for some reason they didnt go through, check your email today they should be in there.

Got them and forwarded them to Joe.

Dave, I showed your email to my parents they said we would talk about it some more later. I hope we do find a way to do this though because I think it would be a great experience. Also my information going up with all the others right I sent it to Joe just checking with you? I didn't get to throw the Screams and Illusions today but I'm going to play an open long course tomorrow and will play the pro tees so I can use the Scream a lot more I will give some more feedback on it when I get back.

Justin

Justin,
Whatever you guys decide is fine I was just giving you some options!

O I know that its options its just I think this would be a cool week if it was able to happen. Also where can you go to see the odyssey approved I had a guy tell me he was waiting for them to be approved and I know they are but they aren�t on the list under PDGA do you know where we can look at the list?

Hi David,
got some Odyssey drivers last tuesday, will try them out this weekend :cool:
Do you have any more new prototypes do have to sell? Scream, DT, DT Ultra and Max???

Justin...check out this list...
http://www.wfdf.org/index.php?page=rules/rules_approved_discs.htm

They're on this list, too: http://www.pdga.org/documents/tech_standards/PDGA_approved_discs_and_targets.pdf

They're under Quest Applied Technologies.

Thanks yall I didn't think about looking at them from the quest part.

Check out them here also:
http://www.questat.com/OdysseySeries.html
http://www.questat.com/ScreamSeries.html
http://www.questat.com/NighthawkDisc.html

Does anyone know if the Nighthawk is out in any shops yet?

We have 9 new molds that have been developed by Steve and I ( Gateway-Quest)We still need to develop the polymers in each, it takes a while!
The early prototypes have the hair on my arm rasing as they are so easy to throw for players with less armspeed and can also go big for smooth players with big power.

We are working on the hotsamps as well as packaging for boxed sets.
Once we have enough in stock and the hotstamps for them, we wil get them on our site.
I know we sent some to the Kentucky state Collegiant Champinships in Bowling green as well as the NT in Houston, o they are getting out there.

Joe there is an updatedlist that has all 9 discs on it from the pdga!

Hey Dave. Thanks for the box of 150 stuff for Japan. Those Illusions are money!!! Just as stable as my max weight ones. The putting is gonna be the real challenge. Some of those ultra flat top Illusions are so stable they are almost out of control. Thanks again and I'll talk to you soon.

Shane and I lost our sponsorship!? we're not on the sponsored players anymore, did matt lose it too hes not on there anymore? How are those E illusions coming? Magic?

The sponsorship page is about to get an update in the very near future. We are currently compiling info for all of the sponsored players. So...hopefully sometime this week it will get its face lift.

do want updated stuff?

If you have some updates, then go ahead and send them on over. Check you PM's.

is Jared Pennington going to be on that page??

Nope! You suck. :D

man.... :( haha thanks matt

Hey are you playing the Paul Giles event or LOSO? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Griffin Park Open....local b tier. at a pretty cool course.

not too sure about live oak yet

Jared,
any luck in getting Coda to come to St Louis for the open?
I'm sure we can put you guys up somehere for free.
I really want you guys to see these courses.
Oh yeah,
Bring the real McCoy too :D

no not yet. I have mentioned it to him, but I can't leave until late friday, which wouldn't leave us much time to sleep or anything. :confused:

So when's the site getting an update, im excited Gateway seems to be skyrocketing forward, those E Illusions are money rollers/anyzer discs. Cannot wait for the Magic and to try out a scream!

Well...I just finished updating the team page on my test machine. I have a handful of player profile pages to finish up and then that part will be done.

Joe,
I saw the link, I guess you still need a lot of info from a lot of players.

Let me know where to send my info for that page.

Dave,
Some people up here in Ann Arbor, are going to run a women's only event. They are still looking for disc sponsors, and selling sponsorships for the various holes. Would Gateway be interested in sponsoring this first women's only event in Ann Arbor? Hopefully, this will be the 1st annual event here in Ann Arbor.

If you want more info, here is a link to the disccusion:
PDGA Disccusion - Ann Arbor Area Disc Indeuced Sports Club (A3 Disc) (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=496652&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Dustin

Of course I'm interested.
I will get in touch or you can email me at david@gdstour.com.

Dustin,
Did you send me an email yet?

Dave,
You should be gettting an Email from Bill Gilbert or someone else from the A3 group here in Ann Arbor. I am not personally working on the project, but am a full supporter of the event and will likely volunteer as a caddy, especially if my fiance decides she wants to play (she just started about 1 week ago). We're still trying to find some good discs for her to use out of my pile of discs, I just don't have a lot of light plastic.
I just decided to take some initiative and ask you anyway. I hope things work out with you guys doing some sponsorship stuff.

On a side note, I am going to be building a ALL gateway bag this summer. I have the guys at Agitprop discs doing a whole set of custom dyes, all on Gateway plastic. I'm so excited I can't wait!!!

Good luck with all the new prototypes, I can't wait to get a hold of some them when i get some loot!

Dustin

Dave hows the stock of screams and E illusions looking? Shane and I are thinking about asking for some but we wanna wait until these are in stock.

I think Justin is sending out 2 screams to all of the team players this week, we ran some E illusions but they were proto runs of non-dried material and most of the wings are puffy like the old orange ones and are a bit flippy.
Are you interested im them?
If not, I just got back from a 10 day trip to vegas and should be running some E illusions by the middle of next week.

Have you guy sent your bios and pics to Joe?

Hey Dave is the Screams like the protos or are these in the different plastic? How did the trip go I know I interrupted you a couple of times from playing my bad about that.

I have sent my stuff to Joe already too.

Dave...I haven't received anymore bio's since I sent you that image with the snapshot of what I have.

Dave, or anyone else for that matter, what gateway disc is most similar to the wraith? I am thinking the scream sounds similar but can someone explain the difference between their flight charicteristics?
Thanks in advance

The Scream has more resistance to turn and less low speed fade. I would say it most likely resembles the Teerex. To me it has more forward penetration than any other disc which means it will fly far even when it isn't a great throw.

Joe, when will the Bios be up? You could at least put the ones you have up right?

Got a question when you ask are we interested do you mean in the Illusions or the Screams?

I have three more players to create/update and then I will have everybody updated with as much current information as I have. So...hopefully this week I should be able to publish the new page.

Joe,
call me tomorrow between 10:00 and 1:00

I will give you a shout around noon if I can.

Thread drifts like this are why I don't bother to check this thread anymore.

Are you serious? I mean they are discussing the update to the GATEWAY website.

Part of my winnings last weekend were 4 gateway molds:

168g Clear Reddish Blaze
169g E Hybrid - Opaque Green, Domey, Says Prototype on it
169g S Illusion - Opaque White VERY flat, VERY stiff. No stamps or markings.
166g E Spirit - Opaque Peach/Flesh colored, domey

Can anyone give me ideas as to what these would compare to in Discraft molds. I've been looking for something predatorish (I throw a 169g Z pred) with a different rim config because preds aren't comfortable for me to throw. The spirit feels good in the hand, but will it handle a head wind in such a light weight?

I heard that the weight doesn't really matter on the disc as much as a lot of people have it and I really found that out. I have a 168 S Illusion that I can throw doing a 360 and it wont turn over and roll. Now doing that yes I get it with a little more anny than normal but it will still hyzer out. The spirit is a real good wind disc that and my S Illusion are the 2 I use most during wind.

Between the E Spirit and the S Illusion, Which is less nose angle sensitive? Which can deal with wrist roll better? I am a lot more likely to roll my wrist than get the nose up.

Part of my winnings last weekend were 4 gateway molds:

168g Clear Reddish Blaze
169g E Hybrid - Opaque Green, Domey, Says Prototype on it
169g S Illusion - Opaque White VERY flat, VERY stiff. No stamps or markings.
166g E Spirit - Opaque Peach/Flesh colored, domey

Can anyone give me ideas as to what these would compare to in Discraft molds. I've been looking for something predatorish (I throw a 169g Z pred) with a different rim config because preds aren't comfortable for me to throw. The spirit feels good in the hand, but will it handle a head wind in such a light weight?



From my experience...it ought to do so better than a 169g z-predator.

This is, however, based on a low 800's rated player's experience with a 174g z-predator and a 168g e-spirit

That said...both discs did eventually get a little flippy on me from abuse. The spirit always felt more comfortable for forehands to me; I never really used the predator backhand so I couldn't say there. The spirit had much better grip. The spirit, before it got flippy, held a straighter line before the fade. The predator was better for sweeping curves. The predator both performed better and held up better for skipping on asphalt. The spirit performed better for skipping on pine needles. The spirit feels more capable of decapitating someone if I hit them. The spirit always felt more controllable to me.

Hope some or all of that helps.

Team Gateway looking strong down at the St. Louis Open. Nikko, Pat and Devan...One, two and three in the advanced division.

Keep up the good shooting guys.

I want to give a shout out to Nikko for a very impressive finish at the St. Louis Open. Also gotta give a shout out to Pat "Cakers" Baumunk for a nice second place finish.

Did Nikko shoot a lights out 3rd round or what?

Also...what happened to Devan?

Looks like a pretty good showing in Pro too for Gateway...Justin, George, Chris B.

Nice job guys. See you in a few days.

Supposedly some people did a bad job at trying to wake Devan...

Nevertheless he didnt wake up in the morning :)

Between the E Spirit and the S Illusion, Which is less nose angle sensitive? Which can deal with wrist roll better? I am a lot more likely to roll my wrist than get the nose up.



Ok, got to test these in the soccer field, gave em maybe a dozen tosses each. Lets see if I got the right impressions of these discs. My goal was to throw from one goalie box to the other, anything outside left/right of the box was O/B.

Conditions: 10-15mph winds steady from the west, tried across, back across, up and down the wind.

Spirit: The only time I managed to 'miss' right was when I was trying to intentionally wrist roll/anny it and I griplocked from the hades it. Even then I was only 30-40 feet right of the center of my 'fairway'. DEFINATELY handled the headwind as well as a pred and I was getting better distance and consistancy. Didn't sweep hyzer as well as a pred, but with the amount of wind up here, a more predictable headwind disc is more important than sweeping hyzer shots.

Hybrid: I was getting consistant range with this, but no left/right accuracy. When I backed down and tried to use it as a mid range, I was as accurate as my buzz, but the skips were sorta inconsistant. Pretty nose angle sensitive. A fun disc but not one for my bag.

Blaze: Very nose angle sensitive, very overstable, not as long as the spirit. Didn't like it much. :(

Illusion: Man, this is way more stable than I expected. I was getting great distance without any S, and when I forced it over, it bombed. I was about as accurate as a 2 year old in potty training. I suspect that once I beat up this enough that it would snap up from a hyzer, it would be the longest disc I've ever thrown, but unless there's a hurricane, this is staying out of my bag. It will ride along in my backup bag for tourneys on open courses. I'd swap this for a surge for the added consistancy. I had problems gripping the wider rim on this.

Conclusions:

This was my first exposure to any of gateway's drivers and I was quite happy. The Spirit is in my bag, the illusion is gonna ride along to tourneys. Hybrid and Blaze are going to get given to friends for who want to try new toys.

Blaze= awesome disc.

Myself...I like the blaze as a long midrange disc...not so much as a driver.

Joe, how are the profiles going?

have you checked out the website? they are up

Yeah but they aren't updated. I am still 958 according to the website.

Matt...yours was updated earlier today.

Matt...yours was updated earlier today.



It still looks like the old one. :confused:

"Did Nikko shoot a lights out 3rd round or what?

"

seems like it should be rated a bit higher!!he shoots a 53 and the only other adv. player in the 50's is a 58!!****!!

Poor Devan ,Nice for all your Gateway Bro's to take care of you that way :mad:.I bet Discraft is looking for some good players like you! :cool:

Matt...your rating when I look at it is 988. So...maybe you have a caching problem or something.

Matt...you coming up for the Challenge this weekend?

Matt's rating currently though is 993

The ratings are based off of what was provided at the time, not what their current status is. Sorry...

Is there a way the ratings can be updated throughout the year since pretty much all of the young guys are going up and it would look better on the page. :DBTW the bio is the exact same as the old page.

No Des Moines but Minnesota for sure.

Thanks Joe /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dave!
So glad I finally got that order into you! Cant wait for the plastic!
Thanks for the great plastic and give me a call sometime so we can talk about adding a coupdl GDS Tour event for this year!

Justin

Matt...you gonna stop and play in DM at all on your way to Minnesota? I would have a hard time passing through and not stopping for a round at Ewing or Pickard.

dave i havent even received my order yet and i have 4 orders for wizards! may be putting in another order sooner than later! SWEET!

Poor Devan ,Nice for all your Gateway Bro's to take care of you that way :mad:.I bet Discraft is looking for some good players like you! :cool:


Not sure exactly what happened, but today I was 5 feet from his bed yelling at the top of my lungs and he just laid there like he was dead.
Pat B and Nikko thought he road with Justin Bugher that morning because they yelled down the steps and out in the back yard loud enough to wake my neighbor, he never responded. My phone also rang 5 times after they left and before I did, it was unfortunate but truly an accident, nikko and devan are good friends and it is nehind them now.

It would have been a much tighter race as Sioux passage is pretty big, but unfortunately favors righties big time.
Hopefully he will play all 4 rounds in Des Moines.

In case you havent noticed, players dont usually switch from Gateway once they are on the team. The other companies programs do not include even 1/2 of the benifits of being sponsored by Gateway.
These kids come up here and get intense training and get to play against Justin, Chris Boro and me on some of the best courses in the country.
Tulsa's best course could barely hang with out 7th best course and we have 5 or 6 more going in that are just as good.

I'm not sure Jim could handle kids like Devan or any other 16 year old for that matter. Who would even want to :confused:

what are our benefits again? Does it include paying the entry fee for the msdgc and birdie skins entry fee because I forgot to register on time and Jason Southwick/Steve Dodge gave gateway the option to purchase a spot for being a big sponsor? thatd be nice since I was the last Advanced winner and represented gateway all over the dvd, especially the back cover.

I'll see what I can do.

I've recently switched to the soft wizard for putting as I have totally re-tooled my putting. I was using an Aviar X. I could see that the wizard has a rounded edge, and the aviar a more beveled edge. What would be the scientific difference in flight characteristics between the two?

One thing I have noticed is the wizard, for one, feels better in my hand. The smaller profile helps for a cleaner realease. The wizard also seems to drop quicker than an aviar once it loses speed. Both hold a great line, but the wizard seems a little more consistant in the wind.

I will try address some of the scientific or aerodynamic differences between the Wizard and Aviar.

First of all I believe the Wizard is a bit longer in flight than either aviar and just about all putters.
Most guys who can throw big with a putter will agree!

It is more based on Gyroscopic effect, balance of air deflection and the materials on the surface of the discs.

The more matted the finish on the discs the less contact the air makes with the actual surface. We do this with the rubber in our materials. It causes less surface friction and a reduction of drag!
The Wizards balance of air under and over the leading edge is much closer to Equal than the Aviar and that certainly adds to Glide on decleration. The Wizard has better stabity for a wider range of Speeds.
A P&amp; A will flip pretty quick when thrown hard and a Kc will fade left more than a Wizard at low speeds.
Keeping in laymans terms the wizards stability covers a much larger velocity range than either aviar p&amp;a or a big bead.

As for the techniical reasons why, most are based on the angles of the deflection {wing vs top or dome VS bead)!.

Here are a few others:
1) The Wizard is smaller in mass around 125 cubic CM and the Aviar is around 140 maybe 145.
The equates to less over all space taken up by the object.
If both discs were to weigh 175, the wizards denisity would have to be 1.4 while the aviar is only 1.2. even with both discs weigh 175g our plastis in ours is heavier and even distributed much differently.

2) besides the shape of the nose which is quite different the rim is still close in mass or size, to the Aviar.
The wizard has a .063 thick flight plate though and the aviar is over .075. At 1-1/2" in from the outer edge of the Wizard, the flight plate begins to thicken and by the time it gets to the shoulder, (where the inside rim meets the flight plate) our thickness is up to .125 heading into the rim! Even soft wizards feel beefy at first, but you can break them in by flexing them. Because we use such high end rubbers the rebound resillancy( memory) is greater as is the abbrasion reistance, so they come right back to shape only a bit more flexible.
The surface, even on firm wizards is still very grippy and tacky for grabbing chains.

The added thickness in the outer part of the rim helps tremendoulsy in 2 different ways over the aviar.
1st,, it adds structure stability to the over all shape of the disc by reinforcing it, because of the added thickness. Even a very used wizard will remain close to perfect roundness)
The 2nd function is adding to the gyroscopicness of the disc, Flat out a more gyroscopic disc will spin longer. The longer the spin, the longer a disc can hold a flight pattern. Bottom line, The Wizard is straighter and flies with a much tighter "S" pattern and will hold just about any line you put it on for a longer period of time whether its 30 feet or 300 feet, 20 mph or 70 MPH!!!!.

3rd)The thickness of outer part of the flight plate thins down quickly at the 1-1/2" mark to the thinner .063 ( compared to the .075 of the aviar) This allows for a much better feel between your thunmb and fingers when pinching the flight plate for putting, because they are closer together. You can get better touch witha thinner flight plate.

Besides all the technical mumble jumble, the real reaosn we feel our putters are more successful is the range of grips and feels. Its like buying a good micro brew compared to the same old bud light! ( No offense dave D, but we spend hours dry blending formulas for 200-1200 disc batches and I'm sure your way past that stage for the putters)
It takes up a lot of time and cuases funky wieghts and blended colors!
We may run a 60 disc batch and make it softer or firmer and then blend and run a 300 lb batch.

Every player seems to like a different aspect of a putter.
You wind up using it on every single and sometimes more than once, so you better really like it!!!!
A lot of people arepalying iwth and liking the wizard for all shots under 300 feet!
We sell a lot of them and will soon be selling a lot more!

We are working on some packaging for the wizard and they should wind up in some of the big box retailers and more existing disc golf outolets.
We have some verbals from interest form Target, Sports Authority and sveral other national corporations
The wizards wont be so hard to get one day real soon!!!!!!!!!!! :D/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It looks like I got a bit sloppy on the spell check towards the end, but I hope this spells out some of the differences between the Wizards and Aviars!

Yes, thanks for the information..I found it quite interesting. The Wizard helped me to a C-tier win this weekend so I can't complain :cool:

Congrats, we should give away prizes or bonus money for guys ( or girls) who win PDGA events using the Wizard even if all of their other discs are non Gateway :cool:

Hey Dave, I was out practicing drives last night, and threw some s ilusions in the box to throw, I had not thrown them before, and I expected them to be way overstable, they were money, flew well past my H and E ilusions, are there any more red s ilusions with the super flat wing?

And when is the E ilusion run going to happen? I may have to come out and help see if I can do a little chery picking off the line too :D

Congrats, we should give away prizes or bonus money for guys ( or girls) who win PDGA events using the Wizard even if all of their other discs are non Gateway :cool:



Sounds good. I ordered 10 more Wizards through Tilley's disc golf in Traverse City, MI. Out practicing this week, and they are flying very well for me. I have definately found my putter for Worlds, and the rest of the year...

had a feeling when you mentioned new putter zVz that we might have another wizard lover... I just ordered the 5 pack special as a father's day gift to myself "from" the mom n law

I've been throwin the glow wiz and don't know how that plastic compares to what I'll get in the "practice" 5pack(?)
I need to try the soft wizard too, make 2 of those 5 softies please ;)

Congrats, we should give away prizes or bonus money for guys ( or girls) who win PDGA events using the Wizard even if all of their other discs are non Gateway :cool:



The men's Pro, ADV, and INT winners of this year's BlueGrass Open (A-Tier) all used Wizards!

I can PM you my address, if you'd like to send some Gateway schwag up here! :cool::eek: ;)

The Medium Wizard is without a doubt the best putter I have ever used. Great grip...great flexiblity...great stability.

I also agree the Medium wizard is my go to putter. Great Grip and Stability equals good putting.

One mans soft is another mans medium and one mans medium as another mans firm.

We make a wide vareity of flexibilities and surface grips, hopefully we have something for everyone! :cool::cool::cool:

For those lucky enough to have thrown these, they know what I am saying.

The E-Illusion is absolutely awesome. It is super easy to BOOM, and players looking for more consistent long-range drivers will love this disc when it is in production.

Dave,

I've recently started messing around with some E elements, and I really like the domey black ones that seem slightly more stable when compared with a peach one that's quite a bit flatter. I was wondering if you have some of these more stable versions in any other colors; I've had bad luck with black discs over the past few years, and sometimes it's kind of hard to find darker discs on some of the wooded holes on my home couse. :mad:

Most of the overstable Elemenst are black.
The disc is not meant to be overstable, you may want to try an Element-X

Most definitely check out the new runs of the Element-X...they are sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet....

Joe, How did everything go at your event this weekend>?

I just traded for 2, so I'll see what I think about the element-X. I also think I'm going to check out a lighter weight for the element. The orange one I have is 183, and is 5 grams heavier than the comet I throw. The heavier weight doesn't really make it that overstable for me, but I sometimes have problems with getting a clean release on a disc that heavy. Do you think the high 170's (177, 178) elements fly that differently than the max weight elements?

Well...I can compare the S-Elements...but not the E-Elements as I throw all 182g one's.

I have three S-Elements in about the same stages of wear but differing weights(176g, 179g, 181g). When they were all new, they all flew the same. Now, the 176g has a lot of turn to it...the 179g has a touch less turn than it and the 181g has a slight touch of right drift. So...try a lighter weight one out...I like th the 176g one...it even has a couple of aces on it.

I throw the E-element and I used to throw the comet, I will say that imo the creamy orange colored E-elements are about the most comet like of the ones that I threw. I think in the lighter weights they will work just as well, I just had to retire my first E-element It had been in the bag a little over 3 months and was starting to flip up just a little to much so it has been passed on and a brand new one is in flight. :D

I've found that the Z Comets which I throw are suprisingly stable when compared with the orange/peach element that I've got. I don't know if it's the way I'm holding the disc (it's pretty shallow, and has a very small rim), but I seem to have problems flipping it. Now the black E element I've got is perfect; it just flies straight for a long long time. I think the added domeyness helps with my grip and release. The main problem with it is that 1. It's black, and I seem to lose discs too often to throw colors like that, and 2. I don't really like to throw plastic that I can't get anymore. Aside from the black ones, are there any other new elements that have that domey feel to them?

Ok, I know this is a thread drift, but I want to ask dave a question and I figure this is the best place to do so. On my way back from worlds this year, I will be traveling through St. Louis. I hear there are some pretty sweet courses there, so I want to know which is the best if I can only play one?

Souix Passage is awesome, but's its a workout. JB is nice. If you like throwing BOMBs in a wide open field, then you'll like Creve Couer. Endicott is not too long but pretty technical.

If you are travleing back on 64 east I would play Centralia. Its set up now as a par 71 and you would need to be 1000 rated to shoot very far under par, but a solid 940 and up player can get close to par if they played the course a few times.
Course mnagement with lots of tee shot placement is very important, It takes about 3 hours to play.
The par 3's are all reachable and none of the par 4's have been eagled.
there have been a few eagles on the par 5's though.

Tell me what you like and I'll guide you into your delight!

I've found that the Z Comets which I throw are suprisingly stable when compared with the orange/peach element that I've got. I don't know if it's the way I'm holding the disc (it's pretty shallow, and has a very small rim), but I seem to have problems flipping it. Now the black E element I've got is perfect; it just flies straight for a long long time. I think the added domeyness helps with my grip and release. The main problem with it is that 1. It's black, and I seem to lose discs too often to throw colors like that, and 2. I don't really like to throw plastic that I can't get anymore. Aside from the black ones, are there any other new elements that have that domey feel to them?



the clear ones are semi domey. I use the clear ones for straight shots the peach ones for turnovers, and the red element X for hyzer finish shots.

I just picked via trade a red elementX and a clear elementX, and look forward to trying them out. I'll be on the lookout for some of the clear elements. Thanks for the info.

Chris...if those ELX's don't work out for you...let me know...I am sure we can work a trade. :D

So far those ELX's are just what I'm looking for. They fly like my SB rocs, and cost way less.

Hey Dave could you tell us the main different between the element-x and element?? right now I'm finding the element-x to go really well with some beat in rocs, element-x to always end up left(RHBH) and then the rocs for super straight and turnover...what would be the difference between rocs and elements/element-x?
Thanks!!

I am sure Dave can give you a more scientific explanation of what the flight charecteristics are but I can tell you as a player who throws el's and elx for all midrange shots that the element compares more to a "tuned roc" very reliable and pretty straight with a little more speed and glide than a roc, I gave one to a local that has only ever thrown roc since innova quit making the hammer (dude is way old school) Got him a peach e-element and he is replacing his straight roc with it...

As far as the element X same glide and speed but more overstable I would compare it in stability to somewhere between a buzz and a wasp, Probally the most dependable long midrange disc I have ever thrown I threw one last night into a 15mph headwind and it flew flat on a hyzer the whole way while the others in my group turned over there tee birds and wraiths.
do yourself a favor and get a few of each I think you will be glad you did. :D

I've got two, real sweet teal e element-x's, one 175 with no stamp and the other 180 with the standard stamp...totally agree that they are super dependable!!
Thanks!

Is there any chance of some Max Wt. Hybrids being ran in Nike plastic. The E ones I have now look like a blowfly thats been left in the sun.

Dave - what is wrong with the colors on the new questat discs? They look like they are already used or had another color blended into them making them looked scuffed up already?

web page (http://www.questat.com/OdysseySeries.html)

I am looking for a few heavy E-spirits preferably the yellow bownish ones with the GDS stamp on it, If anyone has some they want to trade or sell let me know. I know the traders row is the better place for this but lets face it most of the gateway guys check this thread more than anywhere else. :D

Super Q there should be some Spirits at the shop that fly similar to what your talking about.

The first few runs of Odyssey discs were marbled with Black, some players at the course in Fairfiled thought they looked cool so steve ran a bunch, there are solid colors now.

An element will glide a bit more than a roc and is also a little faster.
I think most players will get a little more distance with an element without having to thorw as hard.
We have had a lot of different runs of E element, but most fly pretty stable and for $14 each a lot better bargain, plus avaialable,

There should be some White E Hybrids up to max weight they were ran in the nike type plastic. I know there are some tye dyed ones!


Any other ?????

Hey Dave,
Now that the dimples on the screams have been out for a while how are they holding up??
Also are you finding that the scream with the dimples on the rim are the best or are the other variations any better? (meaning the ones with the dimples in the middle of the flight plate or the one that was all dimples...i only caught a small glimpse of those...)

For distance; the dimples on the wing allow players with less armspeed to throw further.
There are going to be a lot of prototypes using the Dimple technology in the future.
There are many patterns and depths to experiment with, just wait and see!
There could be some advantages with dimples on the top, but it may be more suited for control on mid-range discs.

There are some other surface technolgies that are enhancing the perfomrmance for distance and control.
They are not on golf balls just for looks :cool:

For distance; the dimples on the wing allow players with less armspeed to throw further.



don't dimples help players with more armspeed throw further too?

The dimples on a golf ball help lift the ball in the air, and also to help CONTROL spin. Also, the dimples on a golf ball are VERY precisely designed to produce different outcomes with different dimple patterns. I'm a touch skeptical what dimples could do for golf discs, but I'll wait and see where the applied tech takes us. If not for the people willing to break the mold (pardon the pun) and think outside the box, disc tech wouldn't be where it is today.

Keep up the good work Dave! Love those Wizards!

Hi David,
I saw that the large diameter "Low speed driver" is approved by the PDGA, when do you plan to release it? Are you selling any test-run discs?
2,4 rim, that is a wide rim!

I just got into the E Element and wanted to ask what's the difference (if any) between the one with the "A" written on it and the one without?
I have 2 black ones, 182 & 176.

I have to try the Element-X next - How similar are their flights?

The latest runs of the element-x are very similar to that of a z-wasp or sb roc in stabiliting, in my opinion...but it does have a bit more speed than either of them. If you like the E-Elements...then you will more than likely enjoy an E-ElementX.

I just got into the E Element and wanted to ask what's the difference (if any) between the one with the "A" written on it and the one without?
I have 2 black ones, 182 & 176.

I have to try the Element-X next - How similar are their flights?



Are you sure its and A, I have bad penmanship, but dont recall any Elements marked A.
If in fact it is an A that would mean it has ABS in it which is a material we add to the E to reduce weight and shrinkage.
Most of the time a disc maked with A will be a bit stiffer and more overstable.
We have never ran a production run using abs except the first Grey E elements and it was an alloy of abs and TPU formulated for an autombile part for Ford I think.

It is not really available on a regular basis so we have since tried a few small batches useing the abs TPU blend at the end of a few runs.

For distance; the dimples on the wing allow players with less armspeed to throw further.



don't dimples help players with more armspeed throw further too?


Yes they should, but for me above 60% power I need a lot more hyzer, some nose up and a higher trajectory and they will go BIG!
The Scream Dt is also a great roller disc and you can throw it flat and hard for a loooooooooooong roller!

I do have a few protos of the 9-1/4" disc, I didnt think it was sent to the pdga yet. did it list a name?

Do you have plans for a Spirit DT or Hybrid DT?

Absolutely

I love wizards and I have been putting with them more or less exclusively since 2002. The two that I have in my bag now are newer and the best feeling wizards I have ever had. They are white and grippy, stiff around the rim and a little soft in the flight plate. One has words molded on the underside, the other doesn't. One is marked soft, and the other one is unmarked and was sold as medium. They are both marked 175g, but weigh 174g on a scale. That being said, they are exactly the same in the hand.

The dilemma is that I can't trust anything to make sure I get one the same without seeing, feeling, and weighing them. I just found three at a store that looked and felt like my putters, and were similarly marked 175g, but they each weighed 177g! That being said, I have owned about 30 wizards over the past 4 or so years. They have nearly all been marked 175g, but only about 5 of the 30 actually weighed up! Most of the 175g marked discs weigh 173g, a couple weigh 174g, and the remainder are overweight (one is 181g!). Now I won't get into the soft/ss/medium issue...The point once again is that it is very hard to find the type I like at the right weight, and I can't trust buying a Wizard unless I have personally felt it and weighed it. I putt with the Wizard despite this because it is such a good disc, but over the years I have had to compromise a lot because of all the mismarked plastic I have gotten, using Wizards that were not the weight or feel that I was looking for. So, how can Gateway help with this, and WHERE ARE ALL THE 175g WIZARDS?

Thanks for the question, I wish the answer was simple.
First of all you have one prototype wizard that is well over 4 years old, and depending on where and what writing is on the other one, it could be 3 years old or made this spring!
We have sold almost 100,000 wizards since we started making them!
Hopefully we will be running some larger runs of all 4 types of "S" wizards and make them more available in your area to fingerbang.

One of the reason people like the wizard so much is we have such a wide variety of flexibilities and surface grips,
Many more than just the 4 we list( supersoft, soft, medium and frim) I dont think players would be that happy if we only had 1 type as we would have a lot more complaints that way. I hope players like the fact that we offer such a wide vareity of Wizards, think of them as Kraft beers or a good wine not just Natty-lite or boones farm!!!


As for the weights, we try our best to do some sort of quality control. Between our 2 digital scales and 2 triple beams there can be differences of 3-4 grams.
We have weighed well over a 100,000 parts on each scale, I'm sure they could use some calibrating.

BTW, how do you calibrate your scale?
Do you take it to a scale shop or just drop a 200 gram weight on it?
Try having someone else weigh 200 discs and mark them and then you reweigh them just to make sure he was accurate.
You will find errors as well as realize the extra time it takes to do this.
Again we try our best to be as accurate as possible.

There could be several factors for us when weighing the discs at the factory, which is by far the best place to keep from adding costs to the discs.
There could be fans running, the machine vibrates and of course there is always human error.

I believe there is a whole thread on the weights of the discs going on right now.
We have been told by several companies that weigh their discs, Gateway is by far the most accurate of the 3, but theres always a few that get by.

I have pushed for years to allow ALL discs to weigh 180 grams. This way when we shoot for a batch that will weigh 175 and get 176 and 177 we wont have to grind them up. Then we could enforce a no-tolrance rule at 180, in which I think we would all be happy to abide by. I was told this would only cause more people to want 180 gram discs, but I dont beleive this to be true, its been 175 for too long.

We allow a tolorance of 2g and usually round up to the next gram. To keep from having to many heavies we shoot for 173 and get 171-175, its just how it works or we get too many overweight. Beleive me I want more 175 wizards just as much as you.

If every single disc ever made that was 1 or 2 grams over max weight was pulled from production and ground back up, this would cause disc prices to go way up, its not as easy as you think to make ALL discs 175 grams, there will always be 172 -177 when trying to make 175.
Raising the max allowed weight to 180 is the only real way to make more 175 gram discs without increasing costs.
I would bet that most players dont want disc prices to go up.

Thanks again for the question, I'm glad you like the wizards you have and hope you will find some more that fit your game.
If you could snap a picture of them( front and back) and send them to david@gdstour.com I might be able to help you better.

Hows that for service?

:cool:

hey david i still haven't received my discs in the mail? do you have a tracking number or something.

Justins fired :D:D:confused:

:Dit's all good, i am playing pretty decent right now. just would be nice to fill a couple of gaps. how have you been dave?

Jared,
Please call the shop and talk to justin ( he's not fired)
:D
He says he shipped you another box, call to make sure he has the right address.
314 487 5204

Hey dave I was looking at questat.com what is the story on the scream max and scream ultra?

Justin,
How have you been, we havent heard from you in a while are you back in school.

The max and ultra are 2 versions of the scream with dimples on the top, the max has dimples on the wing too!

Are the Screams available for sale now? If so, please let me know b/c I have some interest in them.

Also, did the guy from Colorado get a hold of you? He's pretty hyped after seeing some of the stuff that I sent my buddy.

Everything is going good down here I just havent had any tournaments that were fun to talk about so hasn't really been much I'm still in that slump of putting that I was in while I got there its starting to get better I got a hyzer on my putts more now but im still having a little bit of the power problem. I got my spirit broke in good from where in des moines i used it so much i can turn it over really easy now I got that as my main driver now.

The guys from the Championship down here are really pushing for you to get involved its going to be a big tournament so far i heard pro purse is $25,00 and Innova Discraft Discwing Latitude 64 DGA.

I had plans to go to hotlanta but since its aug 5 & 6 and I start school on the 7th it was a bust so all I been doing is some sn tournaments right now.

Justin

Thanks for the thorough reply. Its great to have someone to share the behind the scenes info on disc molding. I also know that I am far more picky than most when it comes to disc weight. I can honestly say that over the past four years the Wizards seem to continually get better run to run. About the scale I am using, it is a simple postal scale from office depot, so it is not be any means a technical instrument. It has however been consistent across time. Could I get discs weighed over the phone while ordering? That would be reassuring. Thanks again for the great service!

I just wanted to say "Good Work!" on the Wizard putter! It's an awesome approach/short driver/putter! I have been reading on differant forums that the wizard was a great approach disc, but just figured it was hype.

It's a great design guys. Keep up the great work!

Got a question though; are the SuperGlow wizards supersoft, or soft?

Pagan

I think the superglows are E, but there may be others that are S or SS. The glows that I have are E, and they're fantastic for driving.

the superglow that i putt with is S.

I will have to check out some of these glows in S plastic then.

Matt Orums Odeyssey roller is STILL rolling. Last seen up near Milwaukee, still heading north.

I think it just passed Mike Robinsons drives, and is approaching Avery Jenkins landing pad.

Had alot of fun playing with you this weekend Dave. I think you set the course record. For pars. ;)

Dave or anyone for that matter, can you tell me something about the proto e elements?? I just picked up a grey e element proto from a friend and was just wondering if there was a huge difference between the proto and the element mold now. Thanks!!

The proto elements were a less stable than the current elements.

I agree, the proto elements are just a little less stable and the new e elements that i throw hold a the line you throw them on instead of fading off to the right when thrown hard. (RHBH)

I just got a new batch of Pro Line Evolution Elements last week, and I already got an ACE with one. They hold a straight line sweet!

i think i remember some time ago of you posting n how the different colors cool and their effects on the dome, could you post that again please?
also what colors are considered dark/light? you going by ROYGBIV?

Dave, a few years back, I believe I got a bunch of the earliest wizards you made. They were mostly red with a chalky finish. I liked them, but don't think most people had heard of them/ or used them yet. I think I spoke to you, and got 2 boxes for a very reasonable price. I actually think vendors may have been sending them back, because the chalky finish was perceived as a problem.

Anyway, I am still using my originals from 3+ years ago. And, from your earlier post, there seems to be more varieties of the wizards. What version of the wizard would be the most like that first "experimental" batch that can't be duplicated. Especially, the chalky finish.

Thanks

We have about 200 black Wizards with the same chalky feel.
Most are a soft/medium, some are a little softer.

This is something we can produce if we want, but they are very hard to stamp and we get some bad parts.
Most stores do not like the looks, but hard core players know how good they are.

We will be running Wizards in 3 weeks and will try and make a few more chalkys this time so they last a while.
We may try in-mold decorating to see if that works.

I'll second Dave's comments on the recent runs of the chalky black wizards. They feel great in the hand, and are very similar to some of the proto wizards I've aquired.

Ok Dave-A buddy gave me a wizard to try out and I have since took it as my main putter (he has more for him). I love the putter. I hit a 63 foot jump putt at the BHMO this past weekend and then I claimed it as mine! I am interested in your other discs now. Let me give you a quick breakdown of my bag and if you tell me what could replace what I use (and hopefully give me more distance). I don't generate a ton of snap but am starting to throw 350ish on a consistent basis (backhand). My main driver is a champ sidewinder, into the wind I use a new champ flash or the avenger. My go to disc is a buzz (do use a wasp for more wind) for all midrange shots (I carry three buzzes of different weights). I use a champ firebird for forehand rollers and a beat valk for backhand rollers. My beast (original design) I use for thumbers. I don't have a good sidearm but try with a champ orc. Anhyser shots I use a stratus or my apx swirl. Sweeping hysers are with a star wraith. Putting into a strong wind-pro rhyno. Thanks a ton Dave! Bernie, Michigan #23932

Dave, I was taking a look at the approved disc list lately, and noticed a "low speed driver" under quest technologies that was just recently approved, and the thing is huge (max weight 194.2, 23.4 cm diameter). I was curious if you had any info to devulge about this guy.

hey dave are u going to be at worlds

Hows everyone doing, havnt really posted on here in a while...

Loving the Scream have had some throws around 480 with them and like them a lot more than when I first threw them. Made the finals in an IOS series event a few weeks back then followed that up with a disappointing tournament which I blame on the heat (upper 90's high humidity). For some reason I sweat way too much :) That and I took 3 weeks off because of working 2 jobs and only got about 3 rounds of golf in that entire time with no practice "ouch"

Hows it going Justin? Playing much lately?

Dave hows the retooling on the Screams going? I know that you had run some lower profile ones but they were way too flippy, any further progress there?

i have two that are pretty stable.....and the dt is a fun disc to throw as well! man i can crush those scream prototypes though, they go aloooong way.

i won a scream DT a couple of months ago and this disc is crazy. i release it almost completally vertical but it still turns over and dies. when i throw it about 50% it still turns over hard. Whats the deal?

The Scream Dt is designed for players with less armspeed and power.
My guess is either you are throwing too hard or there could be some off axis rotation in your release.
I let Chuck Kennedy throw one yesterday along with the odyssey ultra long range driver.
He can only throw a disc about 40 MPH and 325 feet, but his release is as smooth a silk with no off axis rotation. He was able to control the Scream-DT even at his max power and threw the Odyssey ulra long range driver farther than any disc in his bag, once he got used to the grip about 350'!

Maybe you should let some newer players or players with a little less power try the disc to see how it performs for them?

ya i let a guy and a kid throw the DT and they both got great distance out of it....the kid hyzer flipped it about 350 which was pretty good for him. and the older guy threw it with anti and it S'd out for him for a long drive as well. I use it for barrel rolls and roller. i love it.

I love the look on people's faces when they see it for the first time.

will there be any sold at the flymart for am worlds?

We may be there it's up in the air right now!

I would be a shame not to be there, considering its AM Worlds. I was hoping to talk with you about a disc order.

i have run it by him once jason. he said he would love to help. i should be tere thursday or friday night. have fun, good luck

We are coming down in the morning and will be at Hunter for Nikko and Devans 2nd round and then to the flymart to get set up.
Not sure yet how long we are going to stay, could come right back or stay down for the whole week.
We are just finishing the tooling on the Speed Demon DT and might come back and run some on Thursday.
The dimples will be more like golf ball dimples, hopefully it will flip up from hyzer when new and not fade so much.
We will no longer have the current Speed Demon as it is just too close to the Spirit.
For those of you who think there is a difference we have about 400 left and that will be the end of them.

I may be bringingthe heat transfer press that we had in Bowling Green if anyone wants to put a Gateway logo on their own shirts, bring them to the fly mart!

PS,
I will also have a few boxes of old school innova and millineum as well as a few DGA and discraft!

Dave, i would love to put some gateway logos on some dri fit polos i have. any other way for me to get that done than the flymart on tuesday? i wont be able to make til friday.

JP im heading to tulsa tomorrow(tues) Coming back Wednesday. Call me if you need to send me with any shirts for Dave. I'll be thurs through Sunday. 405-408-8300. Call me if you need anything. If you want to come with me thur, you are more than welcome.










P.S.
Schwake is the bomb.............. :mad:

Hey Jared if you come down Thursday night I will let you carry my bag around for me during the round's :D:eek: :D

I am looking for 5 identical white Wizard putters, all max weight and I like the soft plastic (it was really grippy, yet pretty stiff). Where is a good place for me to purchase them from? Thanks.

call the shop and have them pull them for you how you want them.

call the shop and have them pull them for you how you want them.


thanks but what shop? no shops in my area sell gateway discs

The Gateway store in St. Louis.

(314) 487-5204

^^ thanks.

^^ thanks.

Most likely the only 5 white wizards that are at the shop would be The Super glow.
It will be about 2 weeks until we get the Wizards up and running.

Hoping to be running the Speed Demon DT's tomorrow!! :cool:

Speed Demon DT should be interesting Dave...you'll have to let me know how they fly. My Scream DT has gotten some pretty good flights out of it. Very useful for wooded courses.

Joe,
will you have anytime to work on our website?
I would really like to move forward on this, its been quite a while since we sat at your pc and went over the templates.

Dave...did you get my email from Saturday?

I did and like what I saw, THANKS!
I will call you soon,
I have a few pictures and some articles once we get the full template up and in place.
I am working on the wording and documents for the 2007 amateur tour.
You can call me if you get a chance.

Hi David,
I read that you have gotten a new version of the Odyssey putter (True Line putter)approved by the PDGA what is the different to it and the first version?

It is pretty much the same as the Wizardish Odyssey putter but there is a different wing. The wing is a 90 degree shelf and flat bead.
It flies and lands straighter than the first version which is a bit more overstable than a regular Wizard.

We also got the double beaded Scream Approved.

Do make other Cool glow discs , besides the awesome Wizard ?

What Gateway disc makes a good distance roller?



I have been using a beat-in S-Illusion, and it rolls forever.


I throw E Spirits... so I was wondering what the newer runs were like, especially in terms of plastic....A new Spirit is still a much better headwind driver than a T-Rex or Flick imo.



After playing the original E-Spirits when they first came out, I feel that the plastic has drastically improved. It is a little more pliable which allows you to tune your disc. I have tuned a few, and I can use the various discs for hyzer-bombs, low height shots, and major helix-bombs. Their versatility may be compared to a Star Firebird, but the plastic holds up much better.

Do make other Cool glow discs , besides the awesome Wizard ?


I'm prety sure we have some Sabres and Element-X's and there may be a few Elements.

We have had E wizards E Spirits, S demons, S Blazes and S Illusions in Glow but we are out right now.
There were also some Glow Odyssey control Drivers and we may have a few left.

Hi David,
what kind disc is the Cyclops?

"Odyssey Cyclops
The Odyssey Cyclops is a finesse driver that is great for low speed throws. You achieve max distance with minimum effort."

Must be that large diameter "Low Speed Driver" that David wrote about some time ago?!

Dave, I picked up a few of the DT Speed demons from Kid in Emporia yesterday, went out this morning before work and tossed it around... WOW


I was amazed the difference the dimples make, acted like a super fast Spirit. The only thing I am not sure about is the speed demon has a sharp spot on the inside of the lip, just doesnt tit the hand for me right, I will say the DT is less noticable than the regular SD and I was bombing it on turnover lines hard and low and that sucker would fly forever then hyzer out and fly even more...

So the question is when will we see DT Illusions? I need a long turnover and roller disc and I have to think that would be it, right now I use a beat H illusion for those shots. :D

Dave,
What 150-class discs do you make, or have you made?

Dave, sweet discs....1st impressions
S-Illusion: sweet distance driver, couldn't quite flip them for max D, but could throw them on a laser line for about 380'. I was throwing 400'+ hyzer bombs with it
E-Speed Demon DT: this disc is weird....need to beat it up more, holds a line well, but comes out of it too quick....reminds me of my old speed demons
E-Spirit: sick overstable, I might go run it over with my truck so maybe it'll go more than 250' on a spike line
E-Hybrid: Nice, flies like my teebirds, was crushing them on straight lines and huge hyzers
E-Blaze: pretty much the same as the hybrid, not crazy about it, slower than the hybrid, may be better in S
E-Sabre: Love it, hit the pin on a 399ft hole, a hair understable, but great for ripping hyzer-flips
E-Element X: didn't throw it much, hopefully it will fit in between the demon and element, goes forever though
E-Element:Great slow turnover disc, great glide
S-Demon: LOVE IT! Super straight with good fade at the end. Almost had an ace with it. Feels really heavy for some reason, like chunking a brick, loving it.
Wizard: what can I say, wizard.....

First impressions, they have alot of glide, and seem to resist unwanted "turnover". Loving them so far.

I was wondering if any of those Large diameter drivers have been run and if so how do they fly?

Hey Dave

Are the Speed Demon DT being run a lot now or how are the coming along? I remember hearing about them at Worlds seen a few people saying they had them was curious about it.

Dave, sweet discs....1st impressions
S-Illusion: sweet distance driver, couldn't quite flip them for max D, but could throw them on a laser line for about 380'. I was throwing 400'+ hyzer bombs with it
E-Speed Demon DT: this disc is weird....need to beat it up more, holds a line well, but comes out of it too quick....reminds me of my old speed demons
E-Spirit: sick overstable, I might go run it over with my truck so maybe it'll go more than 250' on a spike line
E-Hybrid: Nice, flies like my teebirds, was crushing them on straight lines and huge hyzers
E-Blaze: pretty much the same as the hybrid, not crazy about it, slower than the hybrid, may be better in S
E-Sabre: Love it, hit the pin on a 399ft hole, a hair understable, but great for ripping hyzer-flips
E-Element X: didn't throw it much, hopefully it will fit in between the demon and element, goes forever though
E-Element:Great slow turnover disc, great glide
S-Demon: LOVE IT! Super straight with good fade at the end. Almost had an ace with it. Feels really heavy for some reason, like chunking a brick, loving it.
Wizard: what can I say, wizard.....

First impressions, they have alot of glide, and seem to resist unwanted "turnover". Loving them so far.



Colin - Follow these tips and it will help.
1 - S Illusion - Let it wear, and it will flip and glide forever.
2 - Haven't throw the Speed Demon DT.
3 - E Spirit - You tune these for max performance. At 12 o'clock, 4 o'clock, and 8 o'clock on the disc, bend it down into a U shape. Then, bend it in a U in the opposite direction. (May need to repeat a few times) This will break the flight plate and make it less stable. When you do this, you will notice that it will still be overstable, but you can helix it at times, and you can throw some sick 2-fingers.
4 - E Hybrid is similar to a tee-bird. You called it.
5 - E Blaze - This is great for midrange hyzers that require some glide. The more you throw it. The more you like it. Trust me - I felt the same way.
6 - E Element X - I actually don't throw this, but it's similar to a Buzz with more glide.
7 - E Element - Like a Buzz.
8 - S Demon - Once these get a few knocks, they will become your pinpoint accuracy disc for mid range driving.
9 - Wizards = Pimp Discs

Send a PM if you need some more help.

3 - E Spirit - You tune these for max performance. At 12 o'clock, 4 o'clock, and 8 o'clock on the disc, bend it down into a U shape. Then, bend it in a U in the opposite direction. (May need to repeat a few times) This will break the flight plate and make it less stable. When you do this, you will notice that it will still be overstable, but you can helix it at times, and you can throw some sick 2-fingers.


Thanks Jason. Here's my question...I the answer will benefit alot of people, including me. When you say "bend", what do you mean? Like ball cap bending, or like into a taco. I was scared to do this at first cause I don't want to crease the flight plate by bending it too much. I have seen people bend the crap out of their discs and it always made me cringe a little. I know once the speed demon and spirit get "tuned", they'll be crushers. Thanks again.

I taco the E-Spirits. When you bend them back, the shape comes back. This will flatten the flight plate.

My suggestion would be to try this with one E-Spirit and figure it out.

You can do it to the S-plastic, but don't bend it as far.

Jason

PS - This doesn't work for other brands like it does for Gateway discs. It's b/c the premium plastic is much more durable than other brands.

The spirit and speed demons are tuned and ready to throw. I'll report back after the round today. Everything else flies great, I really like the S-Illusion. Its brand new and I throw it with a hair of hyzer and it flies straight forever and then skips like 40ft in the air. Crazyness....
My E-Hybrid has a rough top near the edge, like the plastic had tiny air bubbles in it or something. It almost feels chalky. I still love it, just weird and wondering if that's the norm with E plastic.

Tested some prototypes that were REALLY BIG over the last 2 days!!

Throwing " the new disc" head to head with a Star Wraith, the "new disc" was out performing the wraith in distance by a subtsantial margin. The control was there too!
I would guess it was closer to a pro line wraith than the star as the new disc would keep penetrating forward long after the star wraiths were falling off.

There will be another version out soon that is a little beefier for into the wind shots.

Neal Swanson a new Pro Player out of Round Lake, IL. threw several over 550 and a few near 600.

We are mulling over the name and our currently thinking of Inferno.

Does this sound like a disc that would out drive the wraith?


Would the guy be on fire, a disc or just the text?

We have the Speed Demon DT, Scream, Scream DT, Scream DT Max and the Scream Double Bead all in stock in addition to an assortment of the Odyssey discs including the control driver. We carry quite a large selection of Gateway products (just ask Dave), including a few of the GateCraft discs (Gateway molds made with Discraft X/Z plastic).

I will be adding links to the site on Saturday for everything except the Speed Demon DT and Scream, which are up now.

Can you dig it?

FULL EXPERIENCE (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com)

Straight To The Point (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?)

Dave, you don't love me anymore? If you can, call me tomorrow, I left a message the other day.

The Inferno sounds like a disc I would throw. The name written out in text that looks like fire would look awesome. You gotta love it.

What Gateway molds have been ran in Discraft Z plastic and how can I get some!!!!

Hi David,
I have early versions of the Odyssey "Midrange" and " Driver".
The new one I have seen has "Control driver" respectively "Ultra long range driver" stamped on them. Have you done some tweaking on them or are they the same molds?

The control Driver is the old mid-range and the Ultra long range driver is like an overmolded slightly understable Illusion.

There are now 6 discs in the Odyssey series:

True Line Putter; This version has the same top as the Wizard, but with a square bead and like a shelf. It flies dead straight like a broken in Wizard.
(mostly green or blue)

Putter: same shape as the Wizard and slightly overstable:
Mostly Orange)

Mid-Range Approach: Flies like a really broken in aviar P&amp;A with the speed of a stingray.
(mostly Blue)

Control Driver: a domey version of the roc and can be thrown very long and straight with control slightly overstable at lower speeds
( mostly RED)

Ultra long range driver: a slightly understable high speed driver and can fly extremely far with a nice long straight glide, similiar to a broken in H Illusion
( mostly Yellow some bright orange)

Power driver: This is the overmolded version of the new INFERNO. VERY fast and stable, not that easy to flip and doesnt hyzer out very much either.
(mostly red in color, some green)

Each of the overmolded discs are made with an "s" type plastic on the rim that has great impact resistance and a clear center. The center of the first few runs of the prototypes were not impact modified enough as we were trying to keep the centers really clear and some were cracking. This problem has been worked out and the centers have a nice grippy surface and are still clear.

The discs are great for players of all skill levels and work really well as a set!

If someone has an early run on an odyssey that has cracked, please contact www.questat.com (http://www.questat.com) as they will replace the disc if you send the broken disc back.

New and improved perfomrance enhancing technology has taken Gateway and Gateway-Quest to the forefront with our overmolded discs anddimple technlogy. Look for more discs with the DT ( dimple technology) as it will truely revolutionize how discs perform.

Thanks for all the support for our new discs and look for the INFERNO to be PDGA approved this week and ready to ship.

Hey Dave,

Are you sending down any of the infernos to SNC or no?

Hey Dave,

Are you sending down any of the infernos to SNC or no?



I will probably have some. Now if I can get out of school.....

I had a chance to throw the Inferno yesterday at one of our tourneys. Without a doubt one of Gateways best disc designs yet. This disc has great speed and a ton of glide. My normal drives go about 360-375...and I had no issues getting these out over 400. I watched some of the top pro's around our area, including 2004 Am Worlds Distance Champ Mike Robinson throw absolute bombs with it. A lot of the people that threw it yesterday, threw it against their Wraith's and the Inferno seemed to beat it everytime.

This will be the disc that is going turn a lot of people on to Gateway disc's. I know once these are in a full production run, I will definitely be putting a couple in the bag. Huge potential for this disc...huge.

What Gateway molds have been ran in Discraft Z plastic and how can I get some!!!!



I didn't think these were being released.

Hey Dave,

Are you sending down any of the infernos to SNC or no?



I will probably have some. Now if I can get out of school.....



You need to get out of school then I want to check these things out. Might have to give Justin a call today.