I just got a 174g MRV. I took it out for about 30 minutes and didn't have very good luck with it. I was wondering, what is an effective flight path? It was shooting up high in the air, and if I threw it lower, it didn't fly very far. I also threw turnovers, and it would turn over quickly, but also come back very quickly. I was getting flutter coming out of my hand. The rim is shallower than my Roc, and that might be the cause of the flutter. So basiclly my question comes down to this: How do I get this thing to fly well?

Throw it better.

That wasn't the kind of advice I had i mind.

Practice, praactice, practice. :-)

Seriously, Jedidiah, I've found that it does takes a bit of getting used to. I use a z-mrv for anything I'd normally use Roc for (esp. when I don't want to risk losing my KC 7x's in plastic-eating cedars or dunking it in a lake; z-plastic ain't exactly cheap, but it's easier to find than KC 7x Rocs :-). I think of it as a brand new max weight KC Roc with just a touch of overstability, and adjust the flight path accordingly. Don't get quite as much distance with it as I do with rocs, but in z plastic, it stands up to trees and gravel roads better than KC or DX. Also, try notching back the power a little bit and concentrating on a smooth release to correct the flutter. (But whatever you do, don't change your grip! Tee-hee.)

ya the elite-Z plastic i had the colormax reaper, and i couldnt get the darn thing to fly right, it was way overstable, im a 4 month beginner by the way, then i kinda quit using it because i got arch angel, thing flys 300 ft with no strngth, n e ways, i finaly found out i have to throw the reaper side arm, got the hang of that and i could throw it about 375 on a average throw, but one day it got ate by the lake, moral is, dont throw expensive plastic unless you know how http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Don't try to throw it 350 feet. It's a midrange disc. If you're getting flutter with this disc and not others then I would suggest you find a grip that works with all discs, or fix what you're doing wrong. You may be getting flutter on all your throws but to a lesser extent on other discs. I've found that if you have a defective grip situation, the deeper rims can expose it. Pay closer attention to what's happening with discs you are currently throwing that "don't have flutter", it might be there - just in smaller amounts. I suggest you experiment with the "Fork" grip.

I haven't thrown an elite plastic MRV but I have trouble believeing it's more overstable than any Rock.

NOOOOOOO!!! Not the grip thread again!!!! AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!! :-)

I agree that throwing a roc or an mrv 350' is unrealistic for most of us ordinary people, but having fished several rocs out of the pond on #7 at Cedar Hills in Raleigh, NC over the past year, which is 333', I can report that at least two area pros (Larry Leonard and Brian Schweberger) are throwing rocs on 300' holes. (Considering that Larry finished 3 at the USDGC, and Brian finished 20th and was one of the semi-finalists in the long driving competition, and considering both discs were 5-10' from the waterline, I'd venture a guess that they didn't dunk them on purpose.) But that's not surprising, considering that Larry and Brian regularly surpass 450' with their drives.

Michael, Innova rates the roc as straight to slightly overstable (0 turn, 2 fade), while Discraft rates the elite x mrv at 1, and the z-mrv as "slightly more overstable than the elite x mrv," which, from what I'm seeing is bang-on. For me, rocs fly pretty miuch dead straight with almost no fade, while my z-mrv tails off 10-12 feet toward overstable on 200-250' drives. I'd be interested in hearing Jedidiah's take on the stability of an mrv vs. a roc.

First of all, I never said I wanted to throw my MRV 350. I want to be able to throw it near 240-270. I have the Elite MRV. Not the Z. I am not getting flutter on my other discs. You can't throw 300-350(which I do consistantly on the open holes) with flutter. As for stability, the MRV is a bit more overstable than the Roc. I think the Roc is a bit faster. The MRV seems to fly better at high speeds, if thrown with a bit of hyzer. The MRV is filling the hole between my Z-XL, and my Roc. I don't have a grip problem. I can out drive all but about 5-10 people i've seen at my course. I use fan grip with my Roc, and MRV. I was throwing it some more tonight with NO FLUTTER. I just wanted to know what flight path(height, speed, turnover etc...), is most effective. Not a technique lecture.

I don't think I understand your problem? "The MRV is filling the hole between my Z-XL, and my Roc."
The Roc is there to fill the hole between your putter driving and your distance driving. I can't help with MRV throwing but I have been throwing the Roc since it was made in the arly eighties, there is nothing better.

My problem was I couldn't get it to fly effectivly. I tried throwing it low. I tried throwing it high. I tried throwing it hyzer. I tried throwing it anhyzer. Nothing seemed to make it fly that well.

Felix: I, too thought that my grip was fine -- until I examined my flights more closely. This is not a grip thread, just an attempt to answer a question. At no time during a player's development should he/she stop experimenting. To assume that you have it all figured out is foolish immaturity. There certainly is no shortage of that on this discussion board. ;)

By the way, comparing Innova's Rating system with Discraft's in invalid.

Jed, if you've tried throwing the mrv all those different ways but still can't get it to do what you want, then you are doing something else wrong, or you have a mental block, or you are very impatient, or you are not critical enough in your practice regimen. Obviously, you haven't tried everything. It took me 6 months to become secure with my Aviar.

From what I understand, to get a disc to fly straight, there are 3 basic approaches.
1) Throw a low line-drive at the speed the disc is designed to function at.
2) Release with hyzer so the disc will flatten out as it reaches its glide speed.
3) Throw it higher (not nose-up) so it has time to fade back from its turn.

The only other thing I can think of is that you may be using too much speed and trying to throw too far. As a rule, mid-range discs fly further with good spin and less velocity. Let the disc lift and fly on its own. You may be trying to get it there too quickly. A slower, controlled flight is what you need. If the mrv is designed to function at 35mph and you are throwing it 45mph then, you will not get optimal performance from it. You stated that you want to use it in the 240-270 range. I suspect that 200-240 may be more practical.

I received an mrv in my 2000 Worlds player's package. It was SIGNIFICANTLY less stable than my ROCs - comparable to a Stratus. It's more domey than a ROC, also. The new plastic must have bumped up the stability quite a bit. When you compare stabilities, are you taking into consideration weights, as well??

Nose down (more so than other discs) and lots of spin.

Michael, Jedidiah and I had a stimulating exchange about grips about a month ago. In the end, I think we agreed to disagree and let it drop. My grip comments were meant to be a humourous reference to that exchange. That's why I added "tee hee" at the end of my initial response, and the smiley at the end of the "NOOOO! ... AAAAAAHHHH!" in my second post. From the tone of your response, I assume you missed them. Sorry if you weren't in on the joke.

Michael, I don't have a mental block. I don't think I have it all figured out either. I am sorry if it took you 6 months to be able to throw you Aviar well and comfortably. It took me a week. Oh well. I am not foolish and immature. In the same time it took you to learn your Aviar, I went from throwing 120 feet to 310 feet(and i'm still not content with that). It is very practical for me to throw it in the 240-270 range. I know that I will be able to eventually. When I talk about stability, my Roc and my MRV are both 174g. The Roc flys better nose down. I was asking how my MRV needed to be thrown(angle, nose angle, height). Paul - thank you for answering my question. It is nice to know that some people will. Btw Michael - the first section of your 5th paragraph(The only other thing......) was the only helpful part of your post.

Oh yeah--Innova and Discraft may compute their stability ratings differently, but my experience with various discs is that there is a reasonable correlation between the two scales. So while direct comparisons between Innova's and Discraft's numbers are not necessarily valid, they are a reasonable rule of thumb guide for comparing the flight characteristics of discs between the respective lines.

And yes, I do consider weights when comparing stabilities. In fact, I specifically bought z-mrvs of the same weight as my KC Rocs.

Michael, you can't compare that red player's pack MRV to real MRVs: that thing was made of Magnet putter plastic and is way understable compared to a regular MRV.

I find the regular MRV to be faster than a Roc and start out more like a slightly broken in Roc. I like Rocs better because I've been liking the deeper dish for the grip on control shots and I can still pump a Roc 325 as a driver. I did come home with a fly-dye MRV from Worlds 2000 and threw it for a while, and I found a nice flat release thrown lower than I usually set my Rocs worked best forthis disc. It makes sense to me to start it lower since it seems to fly faster than a Roc (to me).

It's a nice disc, but I like keeping the new/tuned/beat trifecta of Rocs in my bag so I get a pretty good lifespan out of them and don't need another disc clogging up my overstuffed bag.

No harm done, Felix. (Did you miss my smiley face, too?) ;)

Jed, I'm glad you found some useful information in my post. I'm sorry you took some of it to be an insult. I feel that your response was a bit on the defensive side. Despite your initial reaction, I hope you keep those concepts in mind when practicing. The things I mentioned were simply ideas I found to help my game. I have had mental blocks, and realizing you have them is the first step to solving the problems. I'm sure I still have blocks about some things but, I'll still continue to seek them out and challenge myself.

Going on your statement that, "I've tried everything...", sounded like a mental block to me. I was just trying to feed you some ideas and anlges that many people never consider. Remember..."Outside the Box" is a good way to approach your game, sometimes.

...6 months to feel "secure" with the Aviar, and I'm still discovering things about the disc, and my game today. It all depends on what level you wish to bring your game to. Sure, I could throw an Aviar the first day I got it, but I couldn't control it and certainly didn't know how it reacts in most situations for quite a while. I tend to be very meticulous and critical when learning something new - it comes from my musician background where "It's not Practice that makes you good but, Perfect Practice."

As a side note, I've always been bothered about the nose-up/nose-down thing. The way I see it, you should alway throw nose-flat. It's a flying wing - an asymetric airfoil. It is designed to lift and carry it's own wieght when thrown flat. Nose down would just fly it into the ground. How can anyone seriously tell if they are succesfully throwing nose down. I've never seen any slow-motions video footage to prove this theory (and it's just a theory). Any comments...

thanks, Michael

Different shots require different disc attitude (nose-up/nose-down). Low ceilings may require you to 'air-bounce' your shot by throwing nose up. Throwing over a wall of junk but you still want distance? Make sure the nose is down when clearing the crap.

Under some wind circumstances a high nose down shot is best for distance. It really is hard to explain though.

I am beginning to see your point. Could not a low ceiling shot still be achieved by throwing nose-flat and using a disc with lots of lift (dome)?

I've seen some lob putts that look like they are nose down but, they don't really have any spin either. So it's pretty much like throwing a projectile - not flying a disc. I'd probably use a spike-hyzer for clearing a high obstacle. It's a very accurate shot for me.

Throwing nose-down and nose-up seem to require an unnatural adjustment in my technique, as well. The wrist functions best in its biomechanical mid-range. Throwing nose up/down would require some tweaking that is hard to do consistently. Now, I'm talking drives here, not upshots. I often do use an air-bounce for shorter approaches. But the nose-down thing still mystifies me.

I find the Z-MRV flies best between 5 and 10 feet off the ground. It's my straightest disc for tunnel shots and I'll use it up to about 300 feet for those. I do use a control grip with Z-MRV unless I'm near the end of its distance use. The MRV is not a good disc for a turnover shot that you want to come back out of it. Get an MRX for that.

Not neccesarily a turnover. Just for distance. I threw it some more and I think it flys best about 10 feet high with hyzer so it will come back straight and then drop off at the end. I was mainly focusing on 180 feet and in, but when I let one go I threw it around 240-250.

Get em up to about 20' in the air, they'll go almost 400'. Put a little extra spin on it, it'll float forever. (well, close to it)

400 feet? That blows me away! How close are we talking --350/60 or 380 ? What weights are you using and what wind conditions? I can get 400 with a semi-beat Valk, if I have a strong wind coming from 7:30 (assuming you are at 6:00 throwing to 12:00)

isnt throwing nose-up the most common beginner mistake? i remember a lot of launches i put my discs thru, and still sometimes do. under most conditions a disc will adjust its flight in order to follow a nose-flat path. thats part of why a nose-up drive will hyzer like crazy. mushing a long putter shot is prolly the most common nose-up shot, i'd bet. nose-down shots are called worm-burners. or upshots if they were thrown from within 30 http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

The only time I use nose up is when I turbo putt, and very short upshots. I'm going to take it(MRV) out tomorrow. I got more distance and less flutter when I used the fan grip. I did get a better forehand with the MRV than with the Roc.

I've thrown my MRV 5 feet past a 380 foot hole - it took FOREVER to get there. The trick is to give it a lot of spin so that it will stay up in the air longer.

Watching a slow disc go a long way is great fun.

Many times out in a field I've thrown my Z MRV farther than ALL of my drivers. The first time I did it I thought it was a fluke, but it kept on happening. Distance 380-420 http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Wind conditions-9:00 throwing from 6-12. Weight is usually 171 or 172. I agree with Brian, it is pretty darn amazing to watch a slow disc go that far.

Eric: I've had about the same thing happen sometimes with MRV or MRX, both slow flyers. There is a 430 foot hole I play often and I'll throw a driver and end up 40 short or wide. In anger, grab the MRX and give it a ride and be within 20 feet although it takes it a lot longer to get there.
Or on warmups if I throw 10 drivers and my mid-rangers then the mid-range disc will be one of the 3 or 4 longest throws.

Michael, You have to remember, this is the internet. When you post, add 100 ft. to all your distances. When you read, subtract 100 ft. Translation, translation, translation. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

The key to throwing the mrv is the location of the shot. First you must find a lake, pier, cliff, bonfire, or trash can.

Well, if your supposed to add 100', then I throw my MRV 500'! Man, I could use my MRV for almost everything! Only two discs: an Z MRV & Soft Rhyno. Soooo much cheaper.

I hear ya, Jesse. Sometimes I wonder...

There is a small discrepancy, here. If the mrv goes 420ft, why does Discraft sell drivers? I happen to know that 400ft is quite a milestone is one's driving ability. I have only achieved it on occasion, and with 2 years of practice and the right wind conditions. Granted, I'm not young anymore (and quick) but I'd like to think I have decent technique.

If what I am hearing from my fellow golfers is true, than we are witnessing nothing less than a revolution in the world of disc golf.

By extending the premise, shouldn't Discraft's long range drivers allow you guys to get well over 500? As far as I know, there are but a few select pros that can consistently pull out 500 -- and they are all-about technique and years of experience. "Something's afoot at the Circle-K..."

On a more serious note, could any of you please elaborate on your technique. I'm intensely curious.

For me, only one in 10 MRV shots will break the 350 barier. Wind and the slope of the hole plays a big difference too.

In general though, I think on average I can throw my putter up to about 300, midrange up to about 350, and driver around 400.

When I get to the point that I can consistently throw a drive about 450, I expect that my midrange will go about 400 on average.

My technique for max distance MRV throw. 1) Hole needs to be slightly downhill. 2) Wind should be a light tailwind. 3) Release hard and flat. 4) Put as much torque as you can on the disc.

btl.

Bill, strange things are afoot at the Circle K. Great movie.

There's nothing strange afoot at Circle K. You can even ask Mark Ellis. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Whoa. Historical babes.

Discussions about distance would be much more meaningful if everyone were talking about a throw made on level ground. Not up or down hills.

I threw my MRV on flat ground 300 feet. This is not message board distance. This is real distance.

Today it replaced my Roc. I was going to use it for "longer than Roc" shots, but it flys so nice I can't not throw it.

You did the unspeakable, I now am not sure I can be nice to you anymore.http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif

How could you even think such a bad thought, let alone, do it! You make me sad.http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/sad.gif

Brian, Greg:
I can only speak for my throws and my brother who throws a lot of the same discs I do, just 10-15 percent less distance.
Level Ground: As long as its not a headwind, then I throw an MRX with anhyzer release and some height and it takes a nice slow path for anywhere between 370-420 if I want that distance. On hyzers or straight-line shots, I won't use it for anything over 320.

I have thrown MRV 400 feet in warmups (flatest land you ever saw) but I would never use it on a 400 foot hole. I like mid-range discs for holes closer to 300 because it seems you have more margin for error than with a driver. But if I'm throwing MRV hard enough to go 400 then its not so accurate any longer.
I think a mid-range might go about 80 percent D of my drivers.
A "perfect crush" with the Z-XS or CE-TEE bird seem to fly similiar for me goes 440-460 (air distance) frequently. The imperfect throws, which happen way more often, just go 380-400.
Still talking about flat land. That's all we have in my town.
I'm a new player, no expert,so the pros can describe it better.
I grip it and rip it and experiment with release angle for different shots. I still put too much energy into throwing and need to be smoother.
But I learn more by throwing 100 drives than trying to execute someone else's form.
I discovered my MRX distance shot by accident when I tried it on a high annie shot over trees and was amazed at its long flight.

Andy,

I think your percentage of 10-15% less distance than driver with a midrange is about right. At least that is how it works for me.

btl.

I can't help I like the MRV better than the Roc. Once I got a few more throws in with it I can't go back to a Roc. When I can throw it 300 feet, I don't think I will go back to my Roc. Sorry. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/sad.gif

Smart feller

If you could only see my tears.http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/sad.gif

Dehhhh ne neh neh . . . . neh ne neh ne neh. Dehhhhhhh deh neh neh neh nehhhh nehhhhhhhhhhh.

That ain't workin' . . . that's tha way ya do it .. .

That's my favorite Billy Idol song!

Figures a Texan wouldn't know J Geils.

J Geils Band is one of my favorites but I'm more Mexican (Tarahumara) than Texan.

What should I
do next Theresa

and of course...Reputa the Beauta...let down your hair...and let me climb up the ladder of your love!

Don't want your Roc, Jed ? why don'tchya Give It To Me

How bout a trade. My Roc for one of your 4th run CE Valkyrie's. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

"That's my favorite Billy Idol song!"
Wimp, I expect better from you.
"Figures a Texan wouldn't know J Geils."
Paul, that's about what I expect from you.

Money for nothin'
Dire Straits.

BTW, I no longer want my MTV.

Now back to your regularly scheduled, yet unfortunate, casting of doubt upon the greatness that is the Roc.

Dire Straits -- my bad. Wasn't J Geils their front man for a while though?

Throw Your MRV in the nearest pond and get a Roc! Now Mr. X is a whole nuther thang....

Jed, that's about as bad of a deal as when a vender priced out 2 Valks plus shipping for $51.

Martyr, You're a moron! http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif There's nothing wrong with having fun with Jeff Ash's mistake. (different thread)

J Geils was the guitar player. Peter Wolf, the frontman. Peter was married to Faye Dunaway.

Mark Knoffler and Sting.

and I aint got a favorite Billy Idol song!

See, I was right! I was completely justified in expecting more from you.

and...

I know you are but, what am I? Na na nana na. (Sorry Rodney, that was not a useful post.)

(Sure it was Knoffler -- I think it was Jethro Tull . . .)

Peter married that chick from MTV...Connie Chung

Chung Ching ?

(I'm just waiting for Martyr to yell at me so I can leave . . . . )

I feel kinda crappy today Paul, and you're serving as a good distraction. I won't yell at you, no need to run off.

And, just because I wouldn't want to disappoint, Connie Chung is married to Maury Povich. And to the best of my knowledge (which is extensive when it comes to useless trivia), she never had a gig on MTV.

my bad......Martha Quinn Stewart

Ah . . .Quinn chick Ching not Chung chick - check.. . .(thnks alot Martyr -- talk about your wet blanket.)

right on,Wharton

The guy from Waynes World (Mike Douglas) married Connie Chung. Now he's Wang Chung. Or did he marry that Spanish chick in Zorro?

Kathrine Cheetah Chrome ?

Katherine Zeta Jones.

Oh ya, Ya, that's the one he married.
They had a white wedding.

Yeah. They had a kid named Mike Meyers and he was the Church Lady on Saturday Night Live and he was great as Goat Boy. His best friend was Steve Stephens who later was known as Austin Powers.

That's him.
He wrote the song, "Sultans of Schwing".

or was that Sting ?

i think it was mr.hurliheigh when he lived IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER...yeah that's the ticket........cause he was a couple of wild and crazy guys that could really sing and throw their mrv's 450 feet.....what is the topic again?
sorry jed.....most of this is probably over your head because you are still a teenager.....but it's fun for the rest of ushttp://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Jed,maybe this will help you...

Sting started off in disc golf way back in '79. He threw alot of Rocs w/ annie. Then much later,in '85, he started playin' with just a MRV.That wasn't workin' cuz he got blisters on his little finger and another blister on his thumb. But you have to remember, Sting by that time was some little millionare ****** with his own jet airplane.But through all that time and up until now, Sting still plays with Rox.

That was Boy George with his own jet airplane and he's a pauper now http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

My favorite Boy George song is "Tunnel of Love".

Was that the one with the "toro toro taxi -- see you tomorrow my son"? -- that Boy George is cool.

Boy George and George Michael (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&amp;sql=B52x7gj4rj6iw)<FONT SIZE="-2">(check out the photo credit)</FONT> were partners in my Doubles League

Boy George liked to drive.
George Michael liked to show off his pinch-grip - Roc,BTW.

They weren't any good, however. It took them forever to hole out.

Anybody that actually likes Boy George should have their head closely examined by a quality proffessional.

>toro toro taxi -- see you tomorrow my son is from Roller Girl and yes that was Mark Knopfler with Dire Straits.

Ah ht, you've fallen neatly into their trap.

so if Knopfler DID play with Dire Straits, then who does J. Geils play for ?

Abba

Nice get rick. And until Stevie Nix joined the group Abba was NOT going anywhere.

She's hot! I've always had a thing for redheads.She married some dude from The Buckinghams.

yeah -- right Ching. (He's confused with Linda Rondstadt -- must be young.)

Rondstadt ? That little tramp. She cost Gary Hart the presidency.

(that's funny -- "Abba" may have been funnier . . . but that's funny.)

( If I can speak for everyone else on the board, don't encourage me .)

I thought Gary Hart didn't engage in sexual activities with that intern. And J Geils left ABBA after Rondstat started sleeping with the lead singer of Duran Duran, I think his name was
Weird Al Yankorlick.

Told ya she was a tramp. After that affair, Ronstadt finally settled down and married Ted Turner of Bachmann Turner Overkill. That left ABBA with just Stevie Nicks and Don Henley. So they left Canada and moved west to form Heart.

There was something in the air that night
the stars were bright
Fandango

The lead singer of Abba (Patti Smith), wrote those lyrics when she fell in love with the lead guitarist of ZZTopp (Ewell Gibbons).

sheer poetry.....

Nice to see J. Geils rejuvinate his career as guitarist for Guns 'N' Roses, thus changing his name to Clash.

Too bad it didn't last though. After that first hit single "Fish heads", lead singer of GnR Rick Ocasic flew to Switzerland where he had a sex change operation and returned to the states as Cher. Last I heard he, she, whatever was going start singing for Dexie's Midnight Riders. Now we all know that the lead guitarist for them, Eddie Van Waylon Jennings aint to big on shemales. It should prove interesting.

So that means supermodel Paulina Navratilova is single ? What a babe ! She was so cute on the TV show, "One Guy at a Time".

I just got done watching Entertainment Tonight with Debbie Gibbons. She sadi that back in the early 70's Cher (formerly Rick Ocasic with GnR) and Eddie Van Waylon Jennings had a love child that grew up to be a disc golfer. If I caught his name right, it was Kick Night.

"One Day at a Time" Now there was good quality T.V. What ever happened to Mr. Kotter, the guy who played the janitor?

That was J. Geils' brother, John Sebastian, who teamed up with Maury Povich to form Cheech &amp; Chung.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I know for a fact that Maury Povich Teamed up with Bruce Dillard and Sylvester Steinbrenner to open that famous chain of sports bars, Planet Dollywood.

God <FONT COLOR="ff0000">����</FONT>, I could have sworn......(hmmm, guess I just did)

You and I are not allowed to play the same tournamnets on the chance we may get grouped together. I'd end up shooting for crap cause I'd be laffin my ***** off

I don't think I'd be any good after today either now that I've developed Carpultunnel Syndrome (and hemorrhoids).

or course that never stopped Mark Knopfler......

Can you get carpultunnel from using the wrong grip? And would it help or hinder your game?

Could Chris Voight rip one 750 feet using a carpultunnel grip?

What if you lost part of a finger in a wood shop class? Would the 3 1/2 finger grip finally offer the best of the 3 and 4 finger grip?

And if it did help you, would you give your buddies high 4 1/2's after a great shot?

What if you used the carpultunnel grip with only 4 1/2 fingers? What effect would the Nub play?

I see a new thread starting.....

I played with a guy who used a ring-finger only pinch grip. No lie. I was watching him throw and couldn't believe it. He held his index finger off the rim, and I kept waiting for him to grab the disc with it. It took a few drives and watching intently to see that he never did hold on with more than that ring finger and thumb. And yes, he was out-driving me by a mile distance-wise.

He said he broke his finger or something at one point and learned to throw that way so it wouldn't hurt, and never went back after it healed. It was weird, but worked!

I actually use a 2 finger grip with my drivers. I get alot more spin on the disc. Saves me from throwing out my arm as I get older.

Kevin McCoy (1998 PDGA World Champion) uses a special one finger delivery.

While my bath is warming...
How about that voluptuous, Mckenzie Phillips on One Day At A Time...she was the lead singer of the Mamas and the Papas. Her kid China was the lead singer for that hard rockin band Wilson Phillips until she got married to that guy from the Beach Boys...Mr. Wilson.

Their next door neighbor had a little boy who grew up to be All-Pro Defensive Tackle Dennis Miller. Otherwise known as Dennis the Menace.

Beach Boys ? Weren�t they from Fire Island ?

back on topic !.........It�s pretty inspiring to meet people with disabilities. I�ve met a few, but one �famous� one that comes to mind is that one-handed Major League pitcher, Jim Abbott, who last played in '99 with the Brewers - he was born without a right hand.. I don�t know how I�d handle losing even a finger. I guess you just have to take it one day at a time.......yeah, that show had a stellar cast.

There was the youngest girl who is now married to Eddie Van Zant, Melanie Fartinelli. Her co-star, Mackenzie Phallis� (va-va-va-voom) father, John Phallis, was in a 60's religious group "The Fathers and The Sisters" with Peggy Cass, who tragically died choking on a Kielbasa - with extra "mayo". He wrote their hit song," California Lolita Dreaming." Mackenzie Phallis, after a stint in the convent, made a cameo with her cousin Chastity Phallis� band, that starred daughters of Brian Wilson and Wendy O. Williams, Nancy Wilson and Lucinda Williams - the Dixie Cows. Nancy�s twin sister Ann Wilson, from Fatwood Mac, is married to Gus Van Zant, director of the movie about life on the road with Dread Zeppelin called "Almost Flatulent." Goldie Hawn�s daughter, Jessica Hahn, won an Oscar for her portrayal of the groupie,Yoko. Keeanu Reece beat out John Becky Stamos, Jimmy Depp, and Iggy Pip for the lead roll of Chachi - the cabana boy.

Oh, my research has discovered that the janitor was Harry (don't call me Aaron) Dean Stanton.

Lucinda Williams - Car Wheels on the Autoban

The janitor was great in Wild at Heart along with Nicholas Cage who was great in Last Temptation of Christ.

Great movie ! Peter Gabriel, from the band Exodus, did the soundtrack.

Hey,Rick.
Are you by any chance related to Jack Black ?

I just got my Jack Black Fanpage newsletter and rumor has it that he's involved in a project with his father Frank Black. They, along with James Brown, Peter Green, and Barry White are teaming up with Johnny Rivers, Greg Lake, and Roger Waters to form the supergroup, Muddy Waters. Their songlist includes "Green River","Black Water", and "White Wedding". Peter Greenway and John Waters are doing a documentary called,"Joe Dirt Canal".

Can you get tickets ?

Ching, you've rally out done yopure slef dis time. Jew rally haf no nolllege of <FONT COLOR="ff0000">����</FONT> chew haf akomplshed.

A medical question: is the affliction to the hands called "carpool tunnel syndrome" or "carpull tunnel syndrome"? I need to know whether to avoid carpools and especially driving through tunnels when in one. On the other hand (he he) I guess it would really hurt your hands to pull a car, especially if you're in a tunnel. And what's a "syndrome" anyway? The last time I heard that word was in the movie "China Syndrome".

Car pull tunnels in Rome.

Jack Black is my dad's cousin. I'm also related to Clint Black, Lisa Hartman Black, Keith Black ( maker of hemi's for drag racing ) and members of Black Sabbath. 2nd cousins on my mom's side are Barry White, Tom Green, Jackson Brown, R&amp;B recording artist Pink,
Mr. Greenjeans, Jonathan Silverman and Jennifer Grey ( who was the byproduct of a one night affair between Barry White and Lisa Hartman Black before they realized they were cousins ). With most of them being musically inclined they started a band in the late 60's, The Rainbow Coalition ( which was later used by the famous football coach/politician, Jimmy Jackson as a fan club for people who induldge in the consumption of Lifesavers candies.
But to answer your original question, yeah I can get you tickets. How about back stage passes?
I heard they were doing an all time hit compilation entitled " Got my blue suede shoes dirty in the black water on my white wedding day "
Susposed to be a Polka New Wave Dance remix with hints of some Reggae.

<FONT SIZE=" 1">BAM -E - LAM</FONT>

[*****], just got back from Charlotte to play a few rounds and that was on the radio on the drive back. Was singing my ***** off. Man, Toto scored a big hit with that one.

<FONT SIZE="-1">Black Betty had a child,the d@mn thing gone wild. She said it weren't not of mine.The d@mn thing gone blind.

She really gets me high - you know that's no lie.She's so rock steady and she's always ready.

She's from Birmingham, way down in Alabam.Well she's shaking that thing.Boy she makes me sing !</FONT>

<FONT SIZE=" 1">BAM-E-LAM</FONT>

Could only remember the first verse or two. After that I was lip syncing.

Toto also "scored big" with that chick from Kansas, Patricia Arquette.

Wasn't she in that movie Scream with Neve Campanella?

I remember when the members of TOTO were in the band Kansas and Dorothy Hamill was the lead singer. Dorthy's Brother Mike was also a famous actor appearing in Star Trek.

I could've sworn <FONT COLOR="ff0000">����</FONT> it was the movie Cream with the porn star Senka.

Patricia's married to the guy who starred in the movie, "Sunstroke" co-starring Ric Ocasek aka Cher.

"Captain Kirk" (heavy breathing through a synthesizer) "I'm your father"

I thought Patricia Arquette was involved with Courtney "I don't need no more" Cox.

They're both sleeping with Carrot Top.

It was a tradegy when Courtney Cox's former husband Kurt Nobrain drowned himself while committing suicide with a squirt gun.

Kansas fell off the face of the earth - the band, that is - after Joe Walsh started moonlighting with the Bang Gang.

Dorothy Hamills brother was Mark not Mike. Her mother was a skinny Italian ������� named Lizzy. A full blooded Apache named his band after her...Thin Lizzy. The lead guitarist was the emcee on the original I've Got A Secret.

Chuck Woolery?

Actually I think President Gore sold Kansas and Nebraska back to the Amish.

You ain't gonna beleive this. This was just on MRV. Boxcar Willy, Zanfir and YoYoMa are starting a band called the Infomercials. They are kicking off a world tour in Sheboygen.

Can't get any wurst then that !

Great Kings X. Gretchen goes to Amishville.

Chuck Woolery was the emcee on the Newlywed Game.

Randy, was that Gary Moore? I'd wish he'd tour in the states.I loved him in "Arthur".

Now that was funny...sheboygen....wurst...
ROTFLMELMFAO

Arthur, with Gary Moore and Liza Bertanelli. A movie about the king of cantaloupe.

You're good Ching! He was great with Bo Diddley and Derek and the Dominos when they played that Beethoven song.

Going to bed. Later.

Yeah me too, someone has to get up and make the doughnuts

Anita Baker ? ( that's for Innova Dave )

Let them eat cake !

<FONT SIZE=" 2">echo</FONT><FONT SIZE=" 1">echo</FONT>echo<FONT SIZE="-1">echo</FONT><FONT SIZE="-2">echo</FONT>

King's X rules.

The drummer played with the Christian rock group, Bill Gaither Trio.

I'll have to check that out. I've seen Kings X live a couple times, and they are incredible live.

Do they still burn effigies ?

Later Gaskill met Pinnick while both were touring with the Christian rock band Pantera.

Mike, you are correct. But don't take no tips from this thread. You'll end up buying a Polka CD when you think you're getting heavy metal.

If you like King's X you might want to check out some Intergalactic Cowboys.

Ching, Pantera rocks! Dimebag Dan riffs out on the Cowboy Song. The drummers name is Craig Ludwig. He even has a line of drums named after him.

Randy's right Mike, but I'd like to suggest fellow Texans, Brave Combo.

OK. Ching is right. Brave Combo is a rockin Polka Band.

For a better understanding of the Kings X, Jerry Gaskill, Galactic Cowboys connection...

http://www.metalblade.com/bands/Galactic_Cowboys/

*Note-Jerry Gaskill of Kings X plays drums on the new Galactic Cowboys record.

It feels kinda weird giving out true info! http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Be careful. I think I blew my speakers at the end of "Nothing to Say". YEEEE-HAAAAAW!

"Nothing to Say"? Which one - from Soundgarden or Waco Brothers(great band!)?

Or are you referring to the earlier one from Jedidiah Tull off the 1970 album "Benibotte"?

Tull was the first band I saw live - the '74 "War Piglets" tour. UF-ELO opened up for them; it was their "Farced It" tour. Ian Gillian can really blow a mean harmonica. His would-be wife, Laurie Anderson, use to string his Jew's-harp back then.

Jethro Tull was a pretty good singer. I believe Ian Fleming wrote most of the lyrics.

New Live King Crimson out tommorrow... can't wait.
Hey, my band opened for Pantera way back in the Cowboys From you know where days. That was fun. Dimebag Darrell was a trip. I think I've still some of his and Rex's guitar picks. We got the gig at the last minute, and Phil Anselmo told me after the show that we were the best opening band they'd had on that tour. I thought I was famous.

Let me tell ya a story bout a boy named Jeb
Poor Florida boy barely kept his tummy fed
Then one day he was puttin for some dough
bangin the chains with a 80 foot throw
Lucky that is
No skill, throwin blind
Well the next thing ya know ol Jeb's a hundredaire
the message boys all said Jeb move away from there
Said Texas is the state you oughta go
So he packed up his things and moved to San Antonio
Bagger heaven that is,
open holes, no trees
(banjo solo)

Hilarious, Rick.

Just tryin to reinspire Ching and Randy. Seems as though their last few posts were of a more serious nature.
Long live Boacar Willy!!!!

Nice typo Farkin Icehole
Long live BOXCAR Willy!!!
Now it's lost some of it's punch

I doubt it. They're goofing off. If they think Jethro Tull was a singer, I've got a bridge in Oskokomo to sell them.

I thought Jethro Tull was the lead singer of Lynard Skynard.

Yeah, and he played trumpet with that dude Pink Floyd.

mike, is that new crimson as in recently recorded (last tour was great- fripp was most active he's been in years) or as in new release of old live stuff? the "absent lovers" cd from the discipline tour is one of the best live recordings i've ever heard.

Pink Floyd is Boy George's real name.

Nice poem, Rick.

Sounds familiar. Kinda like the theme song from Bevery Hills 091101.Buddy Epsom was brilliant as the salt mine tycoon with bad feet. He actually had bad feet because he was a huge movie star back in the 30's starring in "Soaking in the Rain" and the sci-fi classic "Willy Wanker and the Nike Factory'- a sweat shop full of Martians
that ran around singing the "Uma Oprah" song.

King Crimson use to tour with Queen. B.B king was their drummer and Carole King on guitar. Queen was led by Prince- their hit was "Hymn With No Name". Their music inspired King's X., Lords of the Old School, and Royal Cresent Wrench.

Ahhh how could you forget the other founding members of King Crimson. Nat King Cole and Ben E. King on back up vocals and Albert King on acordian. I heard that Prince left Queen and started the Irish Folk band Queensrhyce with Queen Latifah and Michael Jackson 5 who is a queen. They're putting out a christmas album this year with the videos to be directed by San Quinton Gran Torino.

(Martyr . . . look at the mess you've made.)

You say mess, I say Rock n Roll History 101

Don't forget the Offspring of Michael Jackson and King Crimson...Billy Jean King...he was a great volleyball player.

John, yeah it's recent. It's a double CD, one live in New York and the other I'm not sure where.
Should be nice.

Budakan.

Paul, you have my heartfelt apologies, although I will not shoulder all the blame.

Rick - I was rushing and forgot they joined King Crimson . But,now that you bring them up, I liked them better as The Kingstoned Trio.
<FONT SIZE="-2"> <FONT COLOR="808080">(the Walrus is paul)</FONT> </FONT>
And kudos must also go out to King Crimson's founding member -Leon Redbone. I still play his classic solo album, "Carney".

I throw nothing but Innova's King Crimson line of discs. The KC Lark's Tongue is my driver(it goes VROOM!), the KC Poseidon for long approaches(it even floats!), the KC Chain Lizard is my putter(B'Boom !!!). These three are a perfect pair. I buy them only in red or bible black. It takes alot of discipline to carry just 3 discs, yet I'll even throw beat ones.
<FONT SIZE="-2"> <FONT COLOR="808080">(paul IS the walrus)</FONT> </FONT>
And come to think of it.....I just got Discraft's new Z-MC5 -174g. I took it out for about 30 minutes and didn't have very good luck with it. How do I get this thing to fly well?

Hand it to Todd Cameron.

Yeah, Cam Todd or Chris Voight or Jedidiah Brightbill who was the title character from the 80's horror classic "children of the zuchini".

First of all, I never said I wanted to throw my MC5 700 feet. I want to be able to throw it near 25 or 6 to 4.
<FONT SIZE="-2"> <FONT COLOR="808080">is Paul the walrus?</FONT> </FONT>
As for stability, the MC5 is a more overstable than the 4th Run-DMC. I think the NOFX is just a bit faster.The MC5 seems to fly better at High Times, if thrown with a bit of schnauzer (long nose down).The XTC is filling the hole between my 10cc and my REM.

Rapid eye movement?

Hey didn't those guys from XTC form a band, the Dukes of Stratus Fear, with Duke Wellington and the Duke of Earl. Like Cool jazz psycodelic music eh. They were scared of the Discraft.

I was always confused. The Walrus was John.

No, the little dog from Rem and Stumpy
<FONT SIZE="-2"> <FONT COLOR="808080">is THE walrus paul?</FONT> </FONT>
danny howyard yelled at me cuz my spelting isnt' implectablehttp://pdga.com/discus/clipart/sad.gifI need to take his LAMEASS class.

<FONT SIZE="-2"> <FONT COLOR="808080">icksnay on the alrusway</FONT> </FONT>

Rem and Stumpy? Isn't that the cartoon with the 4 kids and a talking dog who drive around and eat doobie snacks?

Crosby should have been the Walrus.

Indeed, oh God o' Pizza,the Dukes are a real good listen. <FONT SIZE="-2"> <FONT COLOR="808080">the palrus is waul</FONT> </FONT>I found their LP, "Psonic Psyclone".There were cameos by The Amboy Dukes.

Oh my God!!! I never though of the reason Scooby and Shaggy were always looking for food.

Any ways, I like the reggie stuff that Shaggy put out.

It's 25 O'Clock and time to go to bed.

Tomorrow I will Bike Ride to the Moon to visit the Little Lighthouse.

Have you Seen Jackie? She was the Vanishing Girl wearing Your Gold Dress.

My Love Explodes thinking of Brainiac's Daughter who is Pale And Precious.

The Mole From the Ministry is The Affiliated Collideascope. You're A Good Man Albert Brown (Curse You Red Barrel) but you need to be put in a Shiney Cage.

You're My Drug.

What in The World??.....

Chips from the Chocolate Fireball (An Anthology)

More questions to ponder......

Does Marilyn Manson Smell like Children

Does the Dead Milkmen really get off on Smokin' Banana Peels

and does the Circle Jerks really have a Golden Shower of Hits

To listen to the Babes in Toyland you need Painkillers

Were Creedence Clearwater Revival really Willie and the Poorboys

It's Not Unusual to be Dread Zeppelin

Does Beck really have One Foot In The Grave

Does Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here

God Lives Underwater was Empty

and Primus puts it best when they say $uck On This

Primus rocks. My name is PUD.

Scoobie snacks were hash brownies, that's why they were always scared &amp; hungry. Velma was a lezbian. Fred, Dafny, &amp; Velma were having a threesome. That's why they always split up in those same groups.

Im going with Shaggy and Scooby!!!!!!


PizzaGod.....lay off the Scoobie Snacks!!!!

So, is a good scoobie putt done by holding the disc as long as you can?How often do the chains cough one out?
<FONT SIZE="-2"> <FONT COLOR="808080">?paul,aka,walrus?</FONT> </FONT>
I think the Mach 5's are the best shiney cages.

The 3-Circle,Jerks were bogus after Greg Ginn left them to play for Black Foot. A nice band until Sonny Rollins joined members of Lyttle Feet in the southern gospel band The Coucteau-Twins Rollins Band.

Greg Ginn. Isn't that the guy that did "My Love's In Jeopardy"?

How should you throw your MRV?...............

1. Stand on the tee of what ever hole you happen to want to play

2. Find the nearest trash can.

3. Walk to it and throw your MRV in......
Its a sure thing to improve your score by at least 3 strokes a round.


Magilla

By Patrick Sweeney on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 12:21 pm:

The key to throwing the mrv is the location of the shot. First you must find a lake, pier, cliff, bonfire, or trash can.

(We're NOT going to repeat all the posts in this thread I hope.)

No need to find a trash can. It finds it's way into the basket easily enough.

Hi Jed! Welcome back to your most righteous of threads. You're right. The new Spalding mrv basketball is awesome!

What's all this talk about MRV. If you don't like it then simply change the channel. But don't come running back crying when you don't have a place to watch your favorite Scoobie Doo and the Tempataions videos.
Now let's get back to more rock n roll history.

Eddie Money was a New York fireman.

Johnny Cash was a jeweler. He specialized in rings of sapphires.

Henry Rollins was a punk. Geddy Lee was a eunuch. Stewart Copeland was a Police-man. Jeff Beck &amp; Jimmy Page were Birds. Michael Jackson "was" a boy...once.

I think it's cool when Jeff Beck says "get crazy with the cheese whiz". His keyboardist Jon, was an Olympic hammer-thrower.

Don't you go dissin' the King of P<FONT SIZE="-2"> <FONT COLOR="808080">ed</FONT> </FONT>OP<FONT SIZE="-2"> <FONT COLOR="808080">hile</FONT> </FONT> I was at the reunion concert. DID YOU SEE ME ???
I was the little boy in the front row who couldn't sit down.

Rob, I can put up with a lot of B.S. on the board, but don't dis Geddy! 2111 (or 2112, whatever it takes) was an awesome album.

And some of us have to throw an MRV, cause our cable distributor doesn't offer JLS.

The Temples of Leon Spinks.

<FONT COLOR="ff0000">����</FONT>.
Re: Pizza Dogs post this balmy mourn...indeed, The Dukes of Stratus-Fear were scared of Discraft for quite sometime, but in '72 they addressed their phobia with their hit "Don't Fear the Reaper".
(how did we miss that one?)

Giddy Lee had to drop his real last name, Lewis, after the incest scandal.Court orders prohibit him from being near his cousin, Nellie Pert.

poor Al Gore isn't doing so well after selling Kansas.........to Nebraska.............

Public life began well. He started doing TV commercials, which was cool because he got a lifetime supply of Viagra and Coke (the soft drink). Then his wife, Lesley, left him for a reunioun tour with her old band, The Shaggs (http://home.flash.net/~tomj/shaggs/). His daughter, Chelsea began sleeping around. First with Clint Black, then George Clinton.

during that same year Mel Tillis joined the band for one more smash hit " fly like an eagle "....he later left the band to join up with fellow crooners Jimmy Dean Martin and Frank Biannca to start the heavy metal group Scorpion. They played KC to a standing room only audiance of 42 where they belted out timeless classics like
"Barracuda", Devo's "Whippet", "I want to ROC and roll all night" and a heartfelt rendition of Larry Leonard Skynard's all time classic "Teebird"

They didn't cover The Strangler's "Raven"?

That and " Flying on a jet AEROplane"

As a completly serious sidenote. You may want to check out Ryan's Ram thread. We've begun to invade that one also.

Man, I laughed so hard reading those last few posts that I fell and bruised my Ramalamadingdong.
Michael Jackson was a boy? I guess it's true, you are what you eat.

(Dan, I backed you on the Morley thread tonight)
Welcome to our nightmare.

I think Nebraska got ripped off. President Gore should have sold them Texas...
Are you sure Michelle Jackson is a boy...
My last name is Black, you think I got a chance with Chelsea...
What the hell is a Ramalamadingdong and what is it used for...
Why do they have brail buttons on drive up ATM's...
these are just things I ponder late at night

Just a few more.

The Grateful Dead has a few Skeletons from the Closet, is In The Dark and is For the Faithful... And if you listened - What A Long Strange Trip it's Been.

Does a Jellyfish have a Bellybutton

Jefferson Airplane Volunteers.

Love Forever Changes

Jimmy Hendrix askes Are You Experienced before he Kiss the Sky and came down for a Crash Landing

Nirvana..... Nevermind

After the crash, Jimi was looking out his Belly-Button Window.

Hey Joe,
I thought Hendix was a sky pilot and not some naval dude.
<FONT SIZE="-2"> <FONT COLOR="808080">paul,comebackpaul</FONT> </FONT>
Jimi was Captain Coconut, a machine gunner in the air force that flew up from the skies once around the sun in his little wing Cessna.

Thanks, Ching, you da man.
I thought Hendrix came in through the bathroom window, protected by that kid from Silver Spoons? A while back, I think Morgan said Hendrix was god, but since we all know how he exaggerates distances, maybe he's just a sweet Angel.

Sorry this is a lame post. Just don't want the thread to go poof yet.

Hendrix started out with the Monkees. There was Tommy, Dee Dee, Joey, Johnny, and Jimi Monkee.

He left them because they made him wear a mop top, which left him last in the groupie line.And since everyone else had naturals, he thought he'd stand out too much.

Speaking of groupies...sweet sweet Connie (you know that song about an American Band by Deep Purple) married Michael Des Barres. Michael was the front man for a great band called Detective. He was also the front man for the punk band that caused trouble on an episode of WKRP in Cleveland.

Chung from TO-KA-YO ?

No. Ching from Chicago.

and Chong ? Mexico, Columbia or Thailand ?

East LA.

J. Lang - Fargo?
Nice place to be from.

I thought J D Lang was from Canada. Wasn't she Miss Canada?

Only for about a month. She had to resign after the Penthouse ran photos of her and Vanessa Redgrave.

That's right. I remember Bob Goldwaith made alot of money off that one. He's a pretty cool cat.

Not a bad actor,either. Very convincing as John Wayne Gacy in "Shakes The Clown". Great cameo by Shirley Henderson (http://www.flohome.com/).
(you read my mind;almost there...)

Ohhhh noooo. He was great with all those little boys in The Cowboys.

Where's Rick?
I bet he's loafing around somewhere. I don't want to sound too kneady, but if he doesn't get his buns back here soon, I'm gonna kick him in the cookies. I hope he isn't leaven us.
My humor, though not always wry, is on a roll.

Hi Randy!! Hi Ching!!
This is the PDGA grand pooh bah just checking in to see how you two are doing. Keep up the good work as I love reading all this crap. OOOPS gotta run, that Kick Night is calling again to complain about something new. We'll talk again soon.
Toodles

Jackie Chan played Kwai Chang Caine in "Kick Night", right?

Yes. In Nick at Night's Kick Night Jackie Chan was Kwai Chang Caine Ching. Now when Nick nacked his paddywack, whoe got the bone? Was it Connie Chung Ching?

Gawd I hate the doughnuts

Gimmie some of the drugs ya'll are doin!

No drugs - just beer.
I'm spoiled with Goose Island bewpub nearby.
My favs are Pud Pilsner, Darkside Stout, and Doodie's Scottish Ale.
All the bartenders there are surly and rude while sarcastically http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gifing at you.

I prefer Buttken Beer. St. Pauly Shore is pretty good.

My ex-girlfriend didn't drink at all. I think once a year she'd have a Pap's Blue Ribbon.

St. Pauly Shore?
That's paul's favorite, too, along with Paulaner.
Rick likes Black Label or Dixie's Blackened Voodoo Lager.
DGD loves 3 Floyds' (http://www.threefloyds.com/) Robert The Bruce(from Indiana,too!)
Marty enjoys a Harp now and then.
Me? Tching-tao isn't bad. But on a hot day at the disc course nothing beats a Berry Schlitz.

Ching Magnet: I'll let you in on a little known secret: beer contains alcohol, which is a DRUG!

But, if you're going to talk about beer then you've gotta consider how Abita Turbodog rocks! http://www.abita.com/tourbodog.html

Of course, if you're gonna throw frisbees and drink beer (or do any other drug) then you should always remember to leave your MRV at home and throw a ROC!

Peace, love, and understanding,
Denny

thanks for the reality check.....
Juliana likes to unwind after tournaments with a snifter of Korversier VSOP

I'd like to order a dozen to go from.....
<FONT SIZE=" 2"> <CENTER> <FONT FACE="apple chancery">BLACK'S D'NUT SHACK</FONT> </CENTER> </FONT>
.......(1) Vanilla Fudge, (2) Sugar, (1) Honeydripper,
(2) Live Cruellers,(1) Morton Jelly Roll, (1) Boston Cream filled, (1) Long Dr.John, some Marky Bismarks , not a bunch - just (2), and (1) Glazed Fiona Apple Fritter - mmm,that's one tasty tart .
Throw in a James Brownie, too - "they taste GOOD"!
And for Thanksgiving, I need to special order a Nenah Spice Cherry Humble Pie .

Got out of the bakery business, wasn't making any dough.
ok i'm a little rusty after being away for a couple of days.

Ramabanana Split. Woof, Arf, Arf. (I Want Candy) Rock Candy from a Hag.

I'm a wanting a loaf of Bread. But like Eddie Veder said, "can't find the butter maam."