The banger is a putter!!!

1000th post on this thread?

The banger is a putter!!!



Then these specs must be wrong:

http://www.wfdf.org/index.php?page=rules/rules_approved_discs.htm

Rim configuration rating 29,25 ? for a putter? :confused:

I'm looking to pick up some of the new Discraft discs, especially the Spectra. What weights are they available in now? I would like to pick some up at 166 grams. What weights are they run in?

Keith,

Thanks for the partnering program with the Players Cup CryZtal Avengers. It worked out well for me and the EIEIO. Hopefully it helped out the Players Cup just as nicely.

Good luck with the tourney this week.

The Spectra is Z plastic? Feels like X.

I believe its the same plastic as the opaque Z Talons.

keith
I haven't thrown or even seen in person the slipstream gt or banger gt but was wondering if the decision to put them into regular production has been made. If so will the slipstream be available in z plastic. just curious thanks

when will the traker be available as a regular run

when will the traker be available as a regular run


The X-Tra"C"ker is available now. According to Discraft's site.

Hey Keith,


Ya heard? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif




Dirty did it again.

Keith ... I'm loving my new Banger GT's. Shot an ace with one today.
Question: Are you going to make any of this mold in other plastics?

Keith,

Will we ever see an Elite Z- Venom?

Keith,

Will we ever see an Elite Z- Venom?



I believe that the rim configuration (requiring a lot of plastic) won't allow for a z venom without thinning the flight plate. I have heard rumors that they'd never be able to pull it off and still be under the max weight.

That is correct. Both the Drone and the Venom are D-ONLY discs. Besides, a Venom with a THINNER flight plate?!?!?!? :p BLEGGGHHH!!! I saw a new one thrown into a tree @ Keraikes in BG and it came out with a thumb sized hole in the plate.

I love the Venom. Too bad it is only D. I love throwing it when brand new. Very nice headwind distance disc.

I want a z drone
holy stability!!!!

I'd like to see a Z X-Clone!

It seems i remember Keith saying that the X-Clone won't run in Z plastic.

I want a z drone
holy stability!!!!



Or even an X Drone...Just don't discontinue the mold.

Keith,

I just pick up a hard magnet, never thrown. Its the old school magnet stamp. its also glow.but not the glow stamp. Is this a rare disc?

Kozak

Keith,

I just pick up a hard magnet, never thrown. Its the old school magnet stamp. its also glow.but not the glow stamp. Is this a rare disc?

Kozak


It is somewhat rare nowdays. That is a sweet run of magnets, semi-soft, grippy, and flies similar to the proto mags. Wanna sell/trade it? :D

Hey Keith...have you guys thought about doing some bottom stamped disc's?

I would love to have some bottom stamped Pro D Buzzz's, Wasp's and Challenger's.

Thanks,
JT

There have been bottom stamp Challengers already....If you like Venoms I have two matching ones up for auction cheap as they took a little damage from extended storage. They are bid up to $2.75 with 24 hours left in the auction....a good deal waiting to be had....I am also selling copies of my home made video of the Players Cup. I used to own a video production company so the work is pretty good....cool editing and a music sound track....I will trade copies for plastic....

Keith,

Will we ever see an Elite Z- Venom?



I believe that the rim configuration (requiring a lot of plastic) won't allow for a z venom without thinning the flight plate. I have heard rumors that they'd never be able to pull it off and still be under the max weight.



They did the illusion in E plastic finally and they have basically the same design so the venom could be made in a really durable plastic but it wouldn't be the same Z blend.

I have given up on the Z-Talon.

After my first one got too beat up to stay straight and fade left, and the second one fell just short into Lake Olmstead, I bought replacements and they were floppy. I had my buddy who is good friends with Jim Kenner specifically pick the three hardest Z-Talons off the line. When I got them they were still floppy.

The softer/opaque Z plastic for the Talons is not as stable as the hard Z-plastic. Unfortunately it has no place in my bag being less stable. I have resorted with another stable fairway driver made by that "other company".

Unless there is a Discraft fairway driver that is stable as "the other companies" I will have to resort to throwing their plastic for my 350-400ft headwind/left turn shots.

I am really dissapointed.

I still throw almost exlcusively Discraft, so I am happy. It just makes people wonder when I am throwing all Discraft and then pull out something else.

Besides the Z-Talons I am otherwise very satisfied.

ParkTwo, you didn't ask a question.

Here is my question. Have you tried the Flick?

I know Chris, I had already asked about the new Talons a while ago. I have given them the good ole' college try for about 3 months now and I am just not happy with them.

So asking again would have been moot. I just wanted to express my dissapointment.

I have tried the flick. It is too fast and overstable for anything I need. I have the Predator for meat hooks and a Z-Extreme for skip shots.

Is the Elite-Z X2 still being made? That looks somewhat similar to what I am needing.

z-avenger? for me it's like a slightly faster/longer champ teebird

I know Chris, I had already asked about the new Talons a while ago. I have given them the good ole' college try for about 3 months now and I am just not happy with them.

So asking again would have been moot. I just wanted to express my dissapointment.

I have tried the flick. It is too fast and overstable for anything I need. I have the Predator for meat hooks and a Z-Extreme for skip shots.

Is the Elite-Z X2 still being made? That looks somewhat similar to what I am needing.



Yeah the X2(Z and X) along with the Z MRV were really good discs but the discontinued them.

are first run buzzz's the only ones that have wasp on the inner rim?

I have a couple of the old stiff red Z-Talons. PM if'n you're interested.

Erik

I still carry two fly dyed Z-Talons. They are about 3 or more years old and one is really flippy. The other is my straight sidearm disc(thrown twice in the new MSDGC dvd). They appear to be the white, opaque version, probably the 2nd run. I don't remember them ever selling the dyed ones. To me they are interchangeable with beat up Z-Flicks. It just takes forever to beat up a Z-Flick.

z-avenger? for me it's like a slightly faster/longer champ teebird



I already carry a Z-Avenger.

I am looking for a disc that has similar flight characteristics when thrown with 100% power but does not go as far. The hard Z-Talons did the trick, but now they don't.

The first few runs of Z-Buzzz's said Wasp on the inside of them. Then they made a new mold. Buzzz mold or Wasp mold are very similar and not worth the search, but the flat Buzzz's, which all 1st runs are flat, are the most stable Buzzz's. The new Players Cup Midnight Buzzz's are just like the 1st run Buzzz's.

i was just wondering because i have one that has wasp on the inner rim but it does not have the middle stamp only the outer stamp version

it might not be a first run, but if it's a flat top it will certainly be the Buzzz you want since it will be like the 1st runs..

THe Midnight Buzzz is the closest thing you will find to replicate the 1st run...
The flat top clear Z-buzzz's are nice too, but the MIdnight will get concave very quickly and it replicates the 1st run very well.

If you have a flat top Z-buzzz i'd throw it.. ONe of the better discs made.

-Scott Lewis

Z Tracker might be what you are looking for. They aren't as stable as a Talon but IMO are the best fairway driver made by Discraft.

If I can give them a good hard crank with a hyzer release, flip flat, and finish left even in a head wind. Then I might try the Z-Tracker.

If I can give them a good hard crank with a hyzer release, flip flat, and finish left even in a head wind. Then I might try the Z-Tracker.



In my unbiased opinion I feel that the tracker is not the disc you are looking for and you need a Reaper. :D

If I can give them a good hard crank with a hyzer release, flip flat, and finish left even in a head wind. Then I might try the Z-Tracker.



In my unbiased opinion I feel that the tracker is not the disc you are looking for and you need a Reaper. :D



Do they still make the Z-Reaper? I really don't want to start throwing a disc that is planned to be discontinued or has already been discontinued.

BTW,
Best avatar ever! :D

As far as I know...the z-reaper is still produced and I haven't heard of any plans to phase it out. The Reaper and the X2 had similar flight patterns for me in the Z...perhaps that is why they decided to get rid of the X2 since it was similar to some of the other discs.

As far as I know...the z-reaper is still produced and I haven't heard of any plans to phase it out. The Reaper and the X2 had similar flight patterns for me in the Z...perhaps that is why they decided to get rid of the X2 since it was similar to some of the other discs.



While the discs had similar flight patterns when thrown at 100%, I found the Z-X2 to hold a low speed hyzer line longer than a reaper did. The reaper has less glide than an X2, but the reaper is more high speed overstable. It's sort of a compromise in an area where discraft has like 10 discs. In the long run, I'd have rather seen the X2 stay around than the reaper, but in this day and age with mids that you can huck that far at 100% rather than a controlled hyzer with a driver, I understand why the X2 was phased out.

No questions. Thanks for those awesome Christmas discs.

I think my disc supplier has a stash of Z-Reapers he could not sell in the back of his warehouse. I will check them out.

The Talon did not have much glide either, but I can work around that by playing with nose angles.

Thanks everyone.

No questions. Thanks for those awesome Christmas discs.



What did Santa Keith give you?

Two Super Color discs. One is for the holidays and one lists all of next years team. Well not quite all ;)

looking for something discraft to replace my teebird-l and CE firebird fx...any suggestions?

teebird-l ____ Z-Spectra

CE firebird fx______ Z-Flick

Teebird-L=Z Tracker
Firebird FX=Z Predator

Teebird-L=Z Tracker
Firebird FX=Z Predator



I agree.

Long live the Pred!

ya me 2.

I am loving an overstable driver that goes, seems it has 40 feet on my firechickens. :D

The tracker is definitely similar to a TL and the predator is like an FX...but with a bit more glide.

Teebird-L=Z Tracker
Firebird FX=Z Predator



This is definately a very accurate comparison. Very similar discs. Even as a supporter of Innova, I think the Pre-dater has more glide and about the same stability as an FX.
Does anyone have any Z-Reapers in glass clear plastic with the black/red Reaper (big reaper portrait) colormax stamp? I think they were only stramped on first runs. It is the sweetest stamp ever created (besides the roc)

[
Does anyone have any Z-Reapers in glass clear plastic with the black/red Reaper (big reaper portrait) colormax stamp? I think they were only stramped on first runs. It is the sweetest stamp ever created (besides the roc)

[/QUOTE]

I have a couple of the 1st Run Colormax Z Reapers. You can view one in my E-bay store and as usual I am always interested in trades....
Channel Z�s Disc Golf Fly Mart
http://stores.ebay.com/Channel-Zs-Disc-Golf-Fly-Mart

No, not "the reaper" in print, but a nearly edge-to-edge portrait of the reaper with his scythe on a red/grey/black gradient background. The coooolest. I knew it was a limited stamp and I havent seen one since I picked one up at DGExpress. Any recollection on number of discs with this stamp, Keith?

I know Keith has one in his office. That is one of the sweetest stamps I have seen. I think they put some similar stamps on challengers recently.

mmmmm Z-Reapers. I have 4 of the 1st runs left. 2-blue, 1-yellow and 1-clear color max. I also have a double top secret stack of the classic www.discgolfdude.com (http://www.discgolfdude.com) stamp. They are probably 2nd runs. I also have a Z-Cyclone and one X-XS with the same stamp.

Can you dig it?

Discraft SuperCOLOR Pro D Challenger - Reaper (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3126-RPRSC&Category_Code=3126)

Discraft "Reaper" Mini Ultra Star (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=7200-RPRMN&Category_Code=3126)

I have the challenger reaper. It came from the pro shop at the Plantation Inn.

I would like to try some discraft drivers. Currently I throw Orcs and 2003 Beast. What would be the equivalent? Also, what would be the best replacement for a Roc, MRV/Wasp? Thx

The Wasp is a little more overstable then a DX Roc, the Buzzz is less. MRV is totally different.
For your drivers, try a Wildcat (Beast) and an Avenger (Orc?).

i agree

The Wasp is a little more overstable then a DX Roc, the Buzzz is less. MRV is totally different.
For your drivers, try a Wildcat (Beast) and an Avenger (Orc?).



I agree as well. I think the Z-Avenger is more overstable than the CH Orc, but an X-Avenger is right there with it.

The Z-Buzzz is a great replacement for a DX Roc, and it lasts 10 times as long.

I would say for the drivers...
Flash for the Beast
New Crush for the Orc.

The Avenger is a lot faster then an Orc, but the Avenger replaced the Orc in my bag.

Yeah, I am loving my avengers....well avenger :)

I wish it had just a little less high speed turn...

plus i have to be careful in a headwind

But then again, I have a starfire that i could use for those shots

What molds are availiable in the new Z plastic? I have the spectra and am getting the midnight buzz, what else is coming, and will this plastic be run in most of discrafts molds?

And what about getting a D pred?

What molds are availiable in the new Z plastic? I have the spectra and am getting the midnight buzz, what else is coming, and will this plastic be run in most of discrafts molds?

And what about getting a D pred?



New Z-Plastic?

I believe the Midnight Buzzz was a special run to mimic the 1st run Buzzz's.

They are also making the Talon in the softer Z-plastic which made it less stable so I had to switch to a Reaper.

Is Discraft going to start making all their discs in the opaque Z plastic? The clear Z lasts so much longer is does not lose designed stability as easily.

I believe the midnight Buzzz is the same as the rest of the Midnight runs.
There were Midnight Z-Crush's, and Midnight Z-Challengers (anybody got any? ?) for Am National's.
I still say the Spectra is weird feeling. Discraft does make DGA's discs; Tsunami, Riptide, Squall, Titanic in a pretty cool plastic.
The future is limit-less.
But the present is what I have now.
Wow, :cool:

Keith where are you ?

Is there any thought to running a buzz in glow plastic? What about a BangerGT in glow?

Dustin

They have a photon glo buzzz that was released recently. It would be nice to see a glo z buzzz...i bet it would be pretty flat and close to a first run :D

They still have problems with the glo Z plastic, so don't hold your breath.

Keith where are you ?



maybe he's not a PDGA member and so he can't post :confused:

Keith said he was a bit of a slacker in renewing....he will be back online shortly! :p

Anyone have a review for this disc???

I had the chance to throw one of these yesterday alongside a Z-comet and a slightly worn X-Wasp. Unfortunately, I am not a buzzz thrower so I can't compare that. My initial impression is that this disc flies a little faster than the wasp and the comet. And compared to the discs I was throwing, it was a little more stable. However, it will still hold a nice long anhyzer line if you forced it. Although I haven't thrown the buzzz in a while, my impression is the two discs fly very similar. The advantage to the GT of course is the grip in the rim. I could see the extra grip factor being a major advantage over the normal buzzz in wet conditions.

Buzzz should definitely be faster than a Comet, they're SLOW!! It should be about the same as the Wasp, as they're so similar. The GT will work for some, for me it hampers my thumb release, no good.

SURGE?!?!?
What's the story with this? I've heard rumors coming from CO that this maybe just the thing to keep me from buying a bunch of Wraith's. Do tell, please. I imagine they'll be at the Memorial, but I won't :(.

What is the Surge besides an efeminant wedding planner :cool:?

ce

No, that would be Serge.

Since Surge is a word typically associated with the word Storm, my guess is a Stratus/Stormlike, longer distance midrange. That's just my guess.

but the max weight is 175....

i don't know that many mids that were capped off at 175

The MRX was a 174 disc.

It was the best discraft mid range in my opinion until the Buzzz and the Wasp.

Specs as posted I don't thin it's a middy.

Surge
Certification No. 06-2
Outside diameter: 21.1 cm
Height: 1.6 cm
Rim depth: 1.2 cm
Rim thickness: 2.0 cm
Inside rim diameter: 17.1 cm
Flexibility rating: 10.55 kg
Rim configuration rating: 30.25
Maximum weight allowed: 175.1 g

ce

Rumours are it's Discraft's version of a Wraith, I've got my fingers crossed that it is.
I think they realized upon release that the Spectra is too understable for most.

Surge..........I would say it is a more stable version of a a Flash. They had been messing around with making a pop top Flash to make it more stable and fly like the Wraith but couldnt get them to consistantly pop so from what I hear they decided to make a whole new mold to get the desired pop and flight that they wanted.

Thats just what I heard. And if thats true I may have just found a new competition pure distance driver :D:D:D

Discraft ESP Surge (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3127-ESPSG)

Can you dig it?

Really looking forward to this one....................


from Sun King's web page:

Discraft has started 2006 with a bang! By modifying their original "super blend" material that they produce for the DGA Pro Line, they have created ESP or Elite Special Plastic. This new polymer goes beyond the original formula and combines extreme durability with superior grip.

The Surge is a modified Flash that has more overstability and thus more predictabilty, helping it hold a line more consistently.
Available Weights: 164-174g
Stability Rating: Speed: 9 Glide: 5 Turn: 0 Fade: +1.7
Speed(1-10) is how quickly a disc cuts through the air, where 10 is the fastest.
Glide(1-7) is how much "carry" or "float" a disc has where 7 is the most.
The flight of the disc is broken into two phases and rated individually.
High Speed Turn is the first part and is rated from -3 (most understable) to +1 (most overstable).
Fade is the end of the flight and it is rated from 0 (stable) to +3 (overstable).

Really looking forward to this one....................


from Sun King's web page:

Discraft has started 2006 with a bang! By modifying their original "super blend" material that they produce for the DGA Pro Line, they have created ESP or Elite Special Plastic. This new polymer goes beyond the original formula and combines extreme durability with superior grip.

The Surge is a modified Flash that has more overstability and thus more predictabilty, helping it hold a line more consistently.
Available Weights: 164-174g
Stability Rating: Speed: 9 Glide: 5 Turn: 0 Fade: +1.7
Speed(1-10) is how quickly a disc cuts through the air, where 10 is the fastest.
Glide(1-7) is how much "carry" or "float" a disc has where 7 is the most.
The flight of the disc is broken into two phases and rated individually.
High Speed Turn is the first part and is rated from -3 (most understable) to +1 (most overstable).
Fade is the end of the flight and it is rated from 0 (stable) to +3 (overstable).



Surge..........I would say it is a more stable version of a a Flash. They had been messing around with making a pop top Flash to make it more stable and fly like the Wraith but couldnt get them to consistantly pop so from what I hear they decided to make a whole new mold to get the desired pop and flight that they wanted.

Thats just what I heard. And if thats true I may have just found a new competition pure distance driver :D:D:D

Holy crap for once in my life I was right about something and no one though I was a richardhead about it :eek: :eek:

Yeah you were right, but you still are one. :D

I cannot wait to get my hands on it. Maybe it will hold up better in a headwind then the Wraith.

Is this new ESP plastic better then Z? Or will it end up being like Innovas Star Plastic which is ruined after it hits the ground once?

because the star plastic is almost ruined when it hits the ground once :confused:

IF by hitting the ground you mean spiking it into broken glass or a bed of razors then i guess Star plastic gets ruined after it hits the ground once..

what star disc did you throw that got "ruined" after it hit the ground once???

Can't wait to hear more about the surge though.

-Scott Lewis

hhmmmmmm....can't wait to try out the SURGE!!!

IF by hitting the ground you mean spiking it into broken glass or a bed of razors then i guess Star plastic gets ruined after it hits the ground once..

what star disc did you throw that got "ruined" after it hit the ground once???

Can't wait to hear more about the surge though.

-Scott Lewis



The ground around here, under our course is made of chirt. A combination of different rocks ground up into smaller pieces. It is really devastating to discs. The only plastic that lasts around here is either Champion or Z. The star plastic just does not hold up.

Our course is on the side of a small mountain, hence the chirt.

It had better be HEAVILY modified to compete with the Wraith. I just don't see a Flash, with it's deeper and narrower rim being as fast. It just has more air turbulence. We'll see.

Got a bunch today and they feel awesome. Not sure about comparing them to the Wraith as I have never thrown one, but the plastic feels similar. I will try to post some info tomorrow after I throw them.... :)

For comparison's sake, every time I throw my Wraith, it is at least 25+' more than any other disc. I can rip a perfect Z-Wildcat to about 400', the Wraith is at least 425' if not more, and it doesn't need to be perfect.
But, don't get me wrong, I WANT Discraft to take this disc out of my bag.
Could you also compare the rim depth (heigth) to other Discraft drivers? That would help me know what to expect. Thanks.

Are you refering to Chert, which is a microcrystalline variety of quartz. (Commonly referred to as flint, chalcedony, and jasper)

If so, I could definitely see where that would tear up a disc, as chert is VERY hard.

Are you refering to Chert, which is a microcrystalline variety of quartz. (Commonly referred to as flint, chalcedony, and jasper)

If so, I could definitely see where that would tear up a disc, as chert is VERY hard.



Yes I am.

Obviously spelling is not my best aspect.

I know what a shart is but chirt?


:cool:

For comparison's sake, every time I throw my Wraith, it is at least 25+' more than any other disc. I can rip a perfect Z-Wildcat to about 400', the Wraith is at least 425' if not more, and it doesn't need to be perfect.
But, don't get me wrong, I WANT Discraft to take this disc out of my bag.
Could you also compare the rim depth (heigth) to other Discraft drivers? That would help me know what to expect. Thanks.



I did get to throw them yesterday and was pleasantly surprised. They feel similar the the Avenger & Predator molds, doamed pretty good and the depth is similar to the Flash and Avengers. I wish I would have had some brand new Avengers to throw along with the Surge, to really compare. But my initial thought is they are way more overstable than what I expected. They fly more stable than X Avengers, maybe more like Z Avengers...They are really fast and carry nicely. I throw a normal backhand RH about 375 -400 and that disc flew a really easy 400 for me. I will try to throw them some more and give a bit more feed back, but I think they will be a nice addition. I definitely do not think this is a flip hyzer disc for normal arms, maybe the 500+ ft. throwers...just my 2 cents

I definitely do not think this is a flip hyzer disc for normal arms, maybe the 500+ ft. throwers...just my 2 cents



Not to nit pick, but normal arms cannot throw 500+ft, those are monster arms. Your everyday what people consider big arms throw in the range of 400-450ft. The average good player is probably maxing out at 350. I constantly argue with a buddy that the short position on our long hole is only 412ft. I have measured it with wheels and with tape. He says it is over 500ft because that is what the tee sign says.

I am interested in seeing the plastic of this Surge, I hope it is durable enough for my needs. Discraft isn't going to charge +Z prices for this are they?

Not to nit pick, but normal arms cannot throw 500+ft, those are monster arms. Your everyday what people consider big arms throw in the range of 400-450ft. The average good player is probably maxing out at 350.

I am interested in seeing the plastic of this Surge, I hope it is durable enough for my needs. Discraft isn't going to charge +Z prices for this are they?



That is true, my main point is it does go a long way as many people describe the Wraith. I was initially thinking is was a little bit more stable than Spectra, but it is MUCH more stable than those. As for charging Z rates, I doubt it as it is nothing like the Z plastic.

i thought the crush was a more [over]stable flash?

Not to nit pick, but normal arms cannot throw 500+ft, those are monster arms. Your everyday what people consider big arms throw in the range of 400-450ft. The average good player is probably maxing out at 350.

I am interested in seeing the plastic of this Surge, I hope it is durable enough for my needs. Discraft isn't going to charge +Z prices for this are they?



That is true, my main point is it does go a long way as many people describe the Wraith. I was initially thinking is was a little bit more stable than Spectra, but it is MUCH more stable than those. As for charging Z rates, I doubt it as it is nothing like the Z plastic.



I asked because the other company charges a higher price for their new blended plastic, and in my opinion and experience, it does not last as long as their candy. So you pay more for something that does not last as long. Does not make sense to me.

Z-Surge, it's for me.

It is more stable then a Flash right, because that is what I used to roll with.

NO! Discraft's philosophy is that premium (Z) plastic blended with less than premium (X) plastic is NOT worth more than premium. I have this info on good authority.


But, Z may go up a little as a result of a new price point in between Z and X. I am guessing about this only, do NOT take my word for it.

Yeah I heard about Discraft raising prices from our local distributor, it is not an amount that would effectively raise retail prices, but it will cut into profit margins at least.

Rising prices are a normal part of life, and I can accept that, as long as a disc last a decent amount of time, and retains it's flight characteristics, I don't have problems with +$15 prices. Heck MSRP on Innova is $18 for Champion already!

The cost of materials likely fluctuates with the costs of oil, since plastic is a petroleum based product. It will be interesting to see what types of materials the discs companies use once oil becomes way too expensive.

Will the Surge be released in standard Z-Plastic???

Ever see the Gateway hemp plastic? YOUCH!!!
Drive less people! We need to save petroleum, if not for the environment then for our sport! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I put a Surge up on Ebay if anyone is interested....

New Surge - First Run (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7220376363&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1)

Who would want that?

I would. I like that disc.

Chris,

I have to agree with you.

I threw it yesterday at Zeb for the first time.

Holy C R A P Batman!!!

I can't wait until tomorrow so I can order some more.

Kirk

Props to Discraft for giving their site a new look.

www.Discraft.com (http://www.Discraft.com)

The site looks sweet. I like the Peter Weingaard jump putt on the "disc golf" main page. http://www.discraft.com/images/marquee_dg.jpg
I'll bet he made the putt.

Any word from insiders concerning the release of the Z-Surge?

Bowling Green Am Players packs maybe?? :D

Just wanted to congradulate Discraft on their new website. Its looking awesome and I am looking forward to one day being ON that website. Great job guys and I cant wait to throw the Surge in Z Plastic. It might just be the farthest thing on the PLANET if the Z makes it a little more stable :eek: :eek: :eek:

Looking Sharp Mr T-Dogg!!!! The site is definately a step up.

When can I expect to the the BUZZZ Wasp Pred and Challenger in ESP Plastic??? I NEED a Wasp and Pred in this plastic!!!

You already have a Tsunami in your bag :D

I know the pred is different, but close enough IMO.

I want to see a tracker and a wildcat in the ESP...Keith????

NO NO NO!!! BUZZZ WASP PRED!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!

Just wanted to congradulate Discraft on their new website. Its looking awesome and I am looking forward to one day being ON that website. Great job guys and I cant wait to throw the Surge in Z Plastic. It might just be the farthest thing on the PLANET if the Z makes it a little more stable :eek: :eek: :eek:



Actually it would fly farther in the Pro-D plastic. :o

Too bad the only good drivers Discraft makes in the D Plastic is the XL and Crush. Id LOVE some D Preds and D Avengers :D:D:D

Is the X Wasp a regular production disc now?

http://www.dtworld.com/Wasp_p/g331-x.htm
http://www.discndatonline.com/item.cfm?itemid=43631

If so, I am psyched! The X Wasp has been my fave mid for a long time. Maybe I can stop stockpiling them now. Thanks Discraft!

Add me to the list of customers that would love to see the Wasp in ESP plastic.

When can we expect to see the Surge in Elite Z???

http://www.discraft.com/news_0504_ugproto.html

Check out the above link.... Hmmm.... A surge in Z-plastic WITH a Grip Pad!!! :o Keith, are these available?

JD

One is here! (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7237806215) They fly very nice, more overstable than the black ESP I had.

NO NO NO!!! BUZZZ WASP PRED!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!


I would LOVE to see an ESP Buzzz, and Pred!!

I would love some ESP Challengers

Looking at the proto Z Surges, the grip pad looks pretty cool. But being a thrower who spins the disc in my hands before I throw it, I never throw from the same place.

Will the Z-Surge only be available with this pad on it? Or will it be an option. It looks like it will add grip for most throwers, I will prefer to hold the disc tighter.

What happend to the Extreme? I love that disc.

Doesn't spinning your disc before your throw constitute a "freestyle", thus a violation/stroke?

Acutally I believe that you can spin your disc on your finger as long as it does not leave contact with your hand.

On the teepad, I am talking about more of a kneading motion rotating the disc in both hands. I also do not actually make a full grip on the disc until I start my pull-through. My concern with the grip pad is that I most likely would never make contact with it, so there would be little realized value in it on a disc that I threw. So I was wondering if it was an opiton or it was standard on the Z-Surge.

Any chance for an ESP Comet? That would be sweet!

Any chance for an ESP Comet? That would be sweet!



This is a good idea.

Where all can one get an ESP Avenger?

I had one on Ebay that sold for less than retail last week. Too late buck-o. But I hear that almost all ESP Avengers made are in the 160s. If you would like a look, it is Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7237809155&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&rd=1)

Will the Z-Surge only be available with this pad on it? Or will it be an option.



More answers from Discraft country--
The Z Surge has been made sans-grip pad. I saw a heavy blue that was reportedly more overstable than the ultra grip version. I would think it would go into regular production soon.
Also, I believe the Xtreme was discontinued.

I heard that the Z ones with the grip pad were less stable than the ESP's. I'm hoping the regular run is a touch more stable than the ESP's.

I've only thrown a Black 173-5 ESP a handful of times. It flipped pretty quickly for me. The 173 Z with the ultragrip was very straight, not exactly flippy. I heard that the Z without the ultragrip was way overstable.

http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/proddetail.asp?prod=avenger_esp_2006_msdgc

Will the Z-Surge only be available with this pad on it? Or will it be an option.



More answers from Discraft country--
The Z Surge has been made sans-grip pad. I saw a heavy blue that was reportedly more overstable than the ultra grip version. I would think it would go into regular production soon.
<font color="brown"> SWEET! </font>


Also, I believe the Xtreme was discontinued.
<font color="brown"> BOOOO!!!!! </font> :mad:



Well, I do only throw z-extremes for short skip shots and approaches, so the likelyhood of me losing the 3 that I have is very small. They should last me for about.......life. :D

Yup, I've got a stack of about 15 so by the time my grand kids are my age they will still have some fresh ones...best disc ever, well...besides the predator. :D

My guess is that was the problem with Xtreme sales... Once people got their hands on a Z-Xtreme they didn't need another one. It doesn't necessarily indicate that plenty of people don't have them in their bags though. I've had the same one in my bag for over a year, and I've got a decent stack when that one finally meets it's end.

ESP-Comet... Great idea!! :D

Also, while we're making wish lists... Bring back the swirl! :D

http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/proddetail.asp?prod=avenger_esp_2006_msdgc


Is this a Marshall Street exclusive disc?

My guess is that was the problem with Xtreme sales... Once people got their hands on a Z-Xtreme they didn't need another one. It doesn't necessarily indicate that plenty of people don't have them in their bags though. I've had the same one in my bag for over a year, and I've got a decent stack when that one finally meets it's end.

ESP-Comet... Great idea!! :D

Also, while we're making wish lists... Bring back the swirl! :D



I have a bunch of swirls, if anyone is looking...

I don't think it was exclusive... maybe one of the first 3 or so...

I have a few white sunking ghost stamped white ESP Avengers. They are more pred like than the Z or X avengers. They almost seem like mis-stamped preds. As for the Z Surges, I got to toss one a handful of times (sans grip pad) and, although I never knew the weight, it was more stable than my 171 ESP Surges. It was also one of the dark blue ones.

Yup, I've got a stack of about 15 so by the time my grand kids are my age they will still have some fresh ones...best disc ever, well...besides the predator. :D



Couldn't agree more. Glad i bought 150 Z-Xtreme's. I'm thinking my grandkid's grandkids may have some by the time it's over and done with. :D

http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/proddetail.asp?prod=avenger_esp_2006_msdgc


Is this a Marshall Street exclusive disc?



Not an exclusive, just a limited number were produced. We just got 100 of them in for the Dragan Championships on June 3 (http://www.mainediscgolf.com/ddgc/). They're heading to our am player packs, but we're sure to have some left over. Feel free to contact me about purchasing one or more of these beauties.

--Josh

Find them both here (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmrQ2ehemler) .
That is the only run of Z Challengers ever made!!!

hey i was just wondering if the ESP Banger-GT is considerably more stable than the Pro-D?

thanks,
whit

Also, while we're making wish lists... Bring back the swirl! :D


Personally I think the APX swirl is like the Z-Xtreme in that they are great discs, have been discontinued, and last forever. Z-Xtremes are monsters for life and Swirls (for what I use them for) are swirlishish for life. I haven't had to bench either...except now living in New England where you can get away with a Pred instead.

....... and Swirls (for what I use them for) are swirlishish for life.



Worst spelling ever! :D

But it sounds so good! Swirlishish!!

That's why i coined the phrase...or word.... :p

...it's simply Swirlicious ! :D

Keith,
Will ESP Predators be made any time soon? I admit that I am an avid Innova thrower but since I discovered Tsunamis and Predators, my game has stepped up considerably. The Pred filled 2 niches at once. Also, I was planning on attending a local "Ace Race" event in the fall. Can you tell us what to expect from the prototypes? Nothing too revealing, just whether they are overstable/understable or midrange/driver? Groove track or not? Plastic?
Thanks.

ESP X-Clones!!!!

ESP Tracker, Pred, Challenger

Check out the newest video clinic on the Discraft website, about Forhand drives! Very informative and helpfull in learning grips, disc selection, and shot options.
Click HERE for clinic!! (http://www.discraft.com/resources.html)

any word on esp preds?

Doubtful, first will come The Crush, Flash, and maybe Tracker in ESP before the Pred.

isn't the z-pred one of discrafts most popular discs? who throws a flash?

Mark Ellis

a vote for the predator

2 votes, or an ESP Tsunami would be fine

I like to throw those blue speckle tsunamis. What a great mold. esp. tsunami would be a nice disc to try. I'm back to the the topic.

just curious, esp drone anytime soon?

Not sure about the Drone, but I think the Wasp will be out before you read this post. :D

What is a Wasp, I have heard of a buzz before? Actually, my Buzz's say Wasp on the inside rim.

Here you go...
http://www.discraft.com/prod_wasp_z.html

ESP Comet perhaps?

ESP Magnet could be good times!

who throws a flash?



I do. Great freaking disc! Also very underrated disc. I think it was released too soon to the Crush's release. Everyone was still loving Crushes and were not really wanting to try another new disc. Glad i did. :D

Any chance for an ESP Comet? That would be sweet!



Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please.

who throws a flash?




I do too! I black out the "Fl" and pretend I'm a sponsored player.

who throws a flash?



I do. Great freaking disc! Also very underrated disc. I think it was released too soon to the Crush's release. Everyone was still loving Crushes and were not really wanting to try another new disc. Glad i did. :D



In light weights, it's incredible for rollers, in slightly heavier (170ish) it's great for long down wind drives. The flash was my first real driver (far too early on, I might add) and has been in my bag for every tournament I've ever played. It's seen an 823 rated round and 1 1005 rated round.

Now, it mostly serves as my roller disc, but every now and then I need a long uphill drive with a strong tailwind and it's just money for that.

However, for a next ESP disc, I'd much a glide to a flash. My throwing isn't consistant enough for making a flash my primary driver, but a glide in esp would be perfect to me. I'd rather see a Pro-D Surge in like 147grams first.

The Flash is also a great disc for uphill shots. Especially if it turns a little.

When am I going to get my hands on an ESP Predator??? HUH HUH HUH PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.......Or an ESP Tracker???

Is there anyway to add more grip to the ESP blend.......Has anyone else found that the ESP is a little slicker then the Star Plastic???

it is slicker than star plastic

There has to be some way to fix that right???

there is - Throw Innova! :D

just kidding,Ive been throwing a lightweight ESP Avenger for uphill shots lately and its been working quite.

innova star plastic is slick as well. these plastics are not what they are touted to be in my opinion.

I dont know what Star plastic your throwing but the stuff I own is SUPER GRIPPY!!!

Mine are sweet !!!

I had a chance to throw an X-Tracker today out in a field. That disc is pure money. What are the odd's that it will be run in ESP? Or has it and I just missed it.

Ok here it is.......My final requests for current discs to be run in ESP plastic

I need to see an ESP XL an ESP Tracker and an ESP Challenger hopefully in the near future!!!

Oh and I heard rumors of a less stable Surge and a less stable Avenger!!! Can I get an idea if they are going to be released anytime soon???

I have heard people say the slipstream is like a less stable avenger, but i have not thrown a slipstream, so I'm just trying to kill rumors here.

Must have ESP:
-Wildcat
-Tracker
-Challenger
-Drone (I know I know) :D

I had a chance to throw a slipstream back during the ace race stuff. It was understable to say the least...almost too understable. I don't think I would use it as a substitute for a less stable avenger.

Come on ESP Tracker...an X-Surge would be the shiznit.

C'mon ESP Challengers!!! :D

Kelsey says she'd go with an all Discraft bag if they'd produce a 150 Surge.

Can you give a hint as to what this disc will be like? Will it be a mid range, or another driver? I'm considering running another event this year and would like to know.
Thanks.

I have heard people say the slipstream is like a less stable avenger, but i have not thrown a slipstream, so I'm just trying to kill rumors here.



Yeah a Brand new 174g Slipstream is like a beat do death 125g Avenger.

I did hit an ace with it during the ace race, but I had to throw it with a lot of hyzer and nose up to get it to go straight. I unfortunately do not know anyone who uses them. I am trying to get the local club here in N. Virginia to host an ace race though. The courses are really short and there are a lot of rec players, so turnout has potential to be really good.

Can you give a hint as to what this disc will be like? Will it be a mid range, or another driver? I'm considering running another event this year and would like to know.
Thanks.

I'm a big Discraft fan, but they don't tell me nothing! Well, Pad will talk to almost anybody, but I won't be down to the factory for a couple of weeks.

The dude salivating over the ESP Challenger should give the ESP Banger a try. I'm throwing a D Banger for approach shots and short drives and it is so straight. Someone who is throwing the ESP Banger, maybe Tony Apostolou, told me the ESP Banger flies like a new D Banger but it stays new.

Hi Keith, Mark "The Truth" Stubbs #23474 from Kalamazoo here...

I've really been enjoying the new molds Discraft has been producing and made the realization that most of my plastic could be interchanged from Brand X to Discraft to help support my home state. There are a few questions I have that need some answers:

1. I throw with very high torque and need a putter/driver that can resist turnover. I asked Larry last night at Coldbrook and he suggested the ESP banger...tried it and it's still alittle flippy for me. What is your most overstable driver-putter mold?

2. I definately like the buzzz and it shows me alot more glide than the roc for straight shots/finishes. However, the instances I need an overstable midrange that's not a tank (drone) my roc seems unreplaceable. What's your thoughts? I've never tried the wasp...is it more overstable than the buzzz?

3. The spider is my ultra utility disc, especially for those high turnovers that end parallel to the ground upon finish. I haven't found anything to compare. Ideas? I'm talking 30'-50' tall finesse turnover approaches.

4. I've been enjoying the Players Cup ZTracker but it seems alittle flippy for me (ie TL) The Teebird is my go-to driver from Brand X. What would be the most comparable for "point A to B" drives?

I just wanted to say that my major quam with Discraft was the slickness of the Z plastic but I'm really impressed with the grip of the esp. I'll read further back to see what people are saying about the durablitity, but if it's as good as the buzzz and bangers I have now, I'll be converted.

Thanks for addressing these concerns, Keith and talk with you soon!

Hi Keith, Mark "The Truth" Stubbs #23474 from Kalamazoo here... <font color="red"> I'm not Keith, but i do know Discraft plastic..... </font>

I've really been enjoying the new molds Discraft has been producing and made the realization that most of my plastic could be interchanged from Brand X to Discraft to help support my home state. There are a few questions I have that need some answers:

1. I throw with very high torque and need a putter/driver that can resist turnover. I asked Larry last night at Coldbrook and he suggested the ESP banger...tried it and it's still alittle flippy for me. What is your most overstable driver-putter mold? <font color="red"> I've found the challenger to be more overstable than any other Discraft putter. </font>

2. I definately like the buzzz and it shows me alot more glide than the roc for straight shots/finishes. However, the instances I need an overstable midrange that's not a tank (drone) my roc seems unreplaceable. What's your thoughts? I've never tried the wasp...is it more overstable than the buzzz? <font color="red"> The Z or ESP Wasp is what you are looking for. More overstable than the Buzzz, but less overstable than the hog leg Drone. </font>

3. The spider is my ultra utility disc, especially for those high turnovers that end parallel to the ground upon finish. I haven't found anything to compare. Ideas? I'm talking 30'-50' tall finesse turnover approaches. <font color="red"> Try the Glide. It does exactly what you are asking for, and a whole lot more! </font>

4. I've been enjoying the Players Cup ZTracker but it seems alittle flippy for me (ie TL) The Teebird is my go-to driver from Brand X. What would be the most comparable for "point A to B" drives? <font color="red"> X-Avenger is a little more overstable than the Tracker. It's also faster than a TL with a tad more overstability. </font>

I just wanted to say that my major quam with Discraft was the slickness of the Z plastic but I'm really impressed with the grip of the esp. I'll read further back to see what people are saying about the durablitity, but if it's as good as the buzzz and bangers I have now, I'll be converted.

Thanks for addressing these concerns, Keith and talk with you soon!

thanks john your advice is heard.

I've got a glide but haven't figured it out yet.

the zwasp sounds sweet but is the esp wasp going to be as overstable as the slick z plastic. I really want to stay away from the z.

I've got pro d, x, and crystal challengers and they all don't do what I'm looking for. Is there a midrange with simular flight patters as what a champ rhyno is with very slow speed? I went to the website (great job sully!!!) and looked into the different molds and wasn't able to find anything by stability ratings to compare.

I've got a 1st run x avenger and I feel its very close to a wraith. I need a 400'er + stable, stable driver. Suggestions?

I looked through my disc closet and I've got a great Discraft bag to try out after the state finals and kzoo/bc championship...unless Jim would take notice to a high finish and a sudden switch?!? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ;)

Oh!
What's the difference between the reaper and the predator? They seem almost the same under the rating. Flight pattern of the reaper???

Sorry for the sudden shanghi of the thread but I'm really courious!

The Truth
#23474

thanks john your advice is heard.

I've got a glide but haven't figured it out yet.

the zwasp sounds sweet but is the esp wasp going to be as overstable as the slick z plastic. I really want to stay away from the z.

I've got pro d, x, and crystal challengers and they all don't do what I'm looking for. Is there a midrange with simular flight patters as what a champ rhyno is with very slow speed? I went to the website (great job sully!!!) and looked into the different molds and wasn't able to find anything by stability ratings to compare.

I've got a 1st run x avenger and I feel its very close to a wraith. I need a 400'er + stable, stable driver. Suggestions?

I looked through my disc closet and I've got a great Discraft bag to try out after the state finals and kzoo/bc championship...unless Jim would take notice to a high finish and a sudden switch?!? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ;)



I'm not Keith either but......
ESP Crush will never let you down on overstableness. If they are not out yet, the should be very soon. If you could throw Z I would point you to some certain Talons or Flashes

The dude salivating over the ESP Challenger should give the ESP Banger a try. I'm throwing a D Banger for approach shots and short drives and it is so straight. Someone who is throwing the ESP Banger, maybe Tony Apostolou, told me the ESP Banger flies like a new D Banger but it stays new.



I haved switched from D Challengers as my upshot and driving putter to the ESP Banger. It is pretty overstable but will hold lines nicely as well. Also, it's the best driving putter I've thrown (at least for me).

thanks john your advice is heard.

I've got a glide but haven't figured it out yet. <font color="red"> </font>

the zwasp sounds sweet but is the esp wasp going to be as overstable as the slick z plastic. I really want to stay away from the z. <font color="red"> The ESP might be a tad less stable than the Z counterpart. </font>

I've got pro d, x, and crystal challengers and they all don't do what I'm looking for. Is there a midrange with simular flight patters as what a champ rhyno is with very slow speed? I went to the website (great job sully!!!) and looked into the different molds and wasn't able to find anything by stability ratings to compare. <font color="red"> The Breeze maybe. Unsure if it's available except in Z. </font>

I've got a 1st run x avenger and I feel its very close to a wraith. I need a 400'er + stable, stable driver. Suggestions? <font color="red"> If the X avenger wasn't stable enough for you, maybe you are looking for the new ESP surge (1.7) or the newest disc ESP Pulse (1.9). </font>

I looked through my disc closet and I've got a great Discraft bag to try out after the state finals and kzoo/bc championship...unless Jim would take notice to a high finish and a sudden switch?!? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ;)



<font color="red"> Though the Pred and the Reaper have similar stability ratings, the Pred wins in terms of overstability and versatility. </font>

Discraft rules........I throw hard with alot of snap (or atleast I used to) I throw 1 Z Pred (the have ESP) 1 Z Tsunami (they have Fusion ones) 2 Z Avengers 1 heavy one light (they have ESP) 1 Z XL (hopefully they will make ESP) 1 Z Tracker (again I hope they make ESP ones) 1 Z Wasp (they have ESP and YES its just as overstable if not more) I throw 3 BUZZZs of which they have ESP and I throw 4 challengers of which hopefully they will make ESP.........Most putters if thrown with alot of torque (especially OFF AXIS torgue will roll or and never come back on you.......Brand new Hard Challengers will not do this if thrown correctly........I had to change my style when it cames to mids and Putters because I would pretty much flip EVERYTHING or atleast start it on a turn......Bottom line is give any good golfers a bag full of similar discs to his and he will play just as good with them.

Good luck on your search for Discraft plastic!!!

thanks steve. I'm definately looking into the Discraft esp's.
Got to throw coldbrook last night with a discraft bag. I already used the d & esp bangers there, the esp buzzz is like my mid-beat roc, and the x avenger is a sweet replacement for the wraith, having less high speed fade for tighter shots without having to sacrifice distance. my x tracker will be my long distance turnover driver and the z tracker already has a permanate place in my bag.
Still looking for that ultra stable TB-like disc. Didn't bring out my z avenger...or thrown it much yet...coldbrook isn't the course to bomb some shots...
I'll keep searching and thanks for the advice!!

Still looking for that ultra stable TB-like disc.


A max weight X-Talon seems right up the T'Bird alley - though it feels different 'in the hand' due to its shallower inner rim wall.

How does a Tracker compare to T'Birds? I'm thus far Tracker-less...!

Also try a Z-XS

As far as I know, I've got good replacements for most of my innova bag. The only ones I have yet to replace is the Ram, Spider, and rhyno (although I was putting with a soft magnet last night and need one now! :))
How is the esp pred? I'm needing to replace the firebird and if it has alittle less glide than the z counterpart, I'm in!

In general, are the esp more overstable, as stable, or less stable than the x & z brothers?
I've got alot of innova backups, so I don't want to waste alot of money on all models to find the ones to best suite my game needs.

Also, Looks like I'm going to need a Z Xtreme. Still in production??? Anyone with a dusty one out there????

Go Michigan! Go Discraft!!!

I've found that molds in ESP plastic are a little less stable than the same mold in Z.

As for the Spider replacement, an X or D buzzz or a Z-Glide should fly similarly.

A Z-Xtreme would replace the Ram, but the Z-Xtreme isn't being produced anymore. If enough of us ask, maybe they'll do another run. Of course, i covered my A**. I ordered 100 of them initially. :D

Did Gill hook you up with any of his signature Z Xtremes?

I think the reason Discraft quit producing them was becuase they last soooo long. The only way you need another is if you lose yours. :D

Did Gill hook you up with any of his signature Z Xtremes?

I think the reason Discraft quit producing them was becuase they last soooo long. The only way you need another is if you lose yours. :D



Yes he did. But i won't throw those until the BIG stack is gone. And like you said, they last forever, but they sink fast! :D

You need to come to the Cup w/ all of the St. Paul / St. Cloud boys this year!

The dude salivating over the ESP Challenger should give the ESP Banger a try. I'm throwing a D Banger for approach shots and short drives and it is so straight. Someone who is throwing the ESP Banger, maybe Tony Apostolou, told me the ESP Banger flies like a new D Banger but it stays new.



I haved switched from D Challengers as my upshot and driving putter to the ESP Banger. It is pretty overstable but will hold lines nicely as well. Also, it's the best driving putter I've thrown (at least for me).



I agree with you guys, this is the ultimate driver putter. I can throw it when I want a similar line as a Buzz, but want less carry or want to choose a higher flight path. I love throwing putters hard and I've tried everything on the market and this is the best. It has great speed, glide, and stability. I just played a pine forest course and beat the ESP Banger against some trees really hard and it held up completely. Great disc!!! If you can't throw this one Mark, you just need to play with your grip and release trajectory.

The Ace Race disc will be a MID-Range ESP .

The Ace Race disc will be a MID-Range ESP .



Looking forward to 5 boxes and 70 pounds worth of them tomorrow! ;)

Feels really nice! ESP plastic! It's beadless and appears to be a hair smaller in diameter than a buzz/wasp, a hair larger diameter than a putter. I'm calling it mini-buzzz. :D

Feels really nice! ESP plastic! It's beadless and appears to be a hair smaller in diameter than a buzz/wasp, a hair larger diameter than a putter. I'm calling it mini-buzzz. :D


Or how about, "Macro-Challenger"? LOL

Anybody have an ETA on the ESP Flash? I keep hearing rumors and rumblings, but nothing concrete...

Feels really nice! ESP plastic! It's beadless and appears to be a hair smaller in diameter than a buzz/wasp, a hair larger diameter than a putter. I'm calling it mini-buzzz. :D



Almost like a distance Putter in ESP Plastic ?

Mmmm...shallower than a putter. Mini esp Buzzzish - esp Glideish.... Maybe i'll call it the Glizzze or maybe the Gluzzz :D
Won't be able to throw it until the morning...

Mmmm...shallower than a putter. Mini esp Buzzzish - esp Glideish.... Maybe i'll call it the Glizzze or maybe the Gluzzz :D
Won't be able to throw it until the morning...



Looking for the full review.....

Hey Keith!

Were the berth packages for the Michigan Disc Golf Championships supposed to go the the people that won the berth themselves or to the people that showed up and paid the late entry fee?
I won a berth and was told that I had to come to Ludington to get the full color buzzz, ultrastar, and hat. At every other tournament, the winners received the berth packages at the award ceremony, regardless of their commitment to attend the Finals.

Just wondering if I'm getting the shaft???


:mad::mad::confused: :mad::mad::(

Keith really is not the right person to ask about that. Discraft sponsored some or all of the cool berth prizes but did not really get involved in the planning and rulemaking process. You should check with Todd White who rarely posts out here but can be found on the Am Nationals threads in the Tournament section where he posts as circlek13783 (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=1452&Number=581957&Board=TournamentInfo&what=showflat&page=&view).

My understanding from reading some of the e-mail about berths in the MDGO group e-mail was that berths were purchased by clubs and TDs to be given out however they chose, but the preference and strong expectation was for them to be given out through some competitive process. Some TDs were awarding the Berth Certificate and Bag o' Stuff together at whatever tournament where it was being awarded. I don't think there would be anything to stop a TD or Club Poobah from awarding it at Ludington if you actually showed up. Also, the original plan was that once they were awarded they were non-transferable.

I followed that discussion closely in the beginning in case our club members wanted to go, but then we all finally decided to pass on Ludington this year, everyone for their own reasons, me because I'm spending a lot of time, money and vacation days on the IOSeries.

I think the bottom line is, Scott paid for them and he can do what he wants to with them, provided the emphasis was on awarding them through a competitive process. If he decided to award them through a competitive process to people who actually went to Ludington, that was probably within his discretion.

I just got a One Disc Challenge disc from April of 2003. Was this disc ever put into production?

The Ace Race disc is a beadless Torq which is a retooled MRV..........Its basically for those shots that are straight to slight hyzer that are to far for your mid but to short for your driver!!! I think this disc is going to be great!!!

Thanks, I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Bruce-
That was the idea of the berth. From my understanding, they were awarded to those that met the competative criteria (ie: winning the division in our summer match play league) as stated in the beginning of the league.

My issue is that the packages were not given out to the players that earned them...for this event. At all the other tournaments this year that had purchased the berths, the winners were awarded the packages. Every Tournament. Even this LD. Not once did a TD or LD ask the winner if they planned to attend the competition. How can you say for 100% in April if you can attend a tourney in Sept?

I simply think that the sole reason for not receiving the package was to encourage attendance and if the timing were different, I would have enjoyed it this year like I did last year. However, that still didn't change the fact that I earned the berth and all the properties included. Were there letters or actual invites? No. The only certificate showing my acheivment was the full color products (which would look great on my trophy shelf). But for a random kalamazooian to come up to play and take my berth spot, I can understand alittle. It technically should go to the next player in the standings...much like tournaments. If the #1 player already has a berth, it went to 2nd place and so forth. We had two divisions playing for berths. My teammate and I won, but were denied the prize.
I was talking to someone about it and made this analogy:

The Pistons win this coming year's championship. Before the ring ceremony next season, players retire and are traded. According to this berth situation, those "ex" player's rings don't go to them, but to the players that replaced them on the squad. Not the exact situation, but I"m reaching to understand this philosophy. How would you TD's and LD's handle this?

BTW, Keith...the pulse is going to be money! Had a chance to open up with it at Timber Ridge yesterday and it is a better choice than the teerex with the amount of glide it has and the high speed turn resistance! Great Job!

........Torq which is a retooled MRV..........Its basically for those shots that are straight to slight hyzer that are to far for your mid but to short for your driver!!! I think this disc is going to be great!!!



Ditto, I love the Torq, it will probably slowly become the most thrown disc in my bag. 375ft hyzers, watch out! :eek:

When will the Torq be legal?

I was wondering about sponsorship, not for me just in genral, are you always adding someone new every year or do just have what you have and go with that? What actually goes with being a sponsored player?

The Torque and Meteor are now on the approved list.
Could the Meteor be a re-tooled Comet?

The Torque and Meteor are now on the approved list.
Could the Meteor be a re-tooled Comet?



One can only hope. That'd be awesome, except for the fact that perfection is just that: perfection. Why would they re-tool anything about that awesome mold?

The Torque and Meteor are now on the approved list.
Could the Meteor be a re-tooled Comet?



One can only hope. That'd be awesome, except for the fact that perfection is just that: perfection. Why would they re-tool anything about that awesome mold?



Retooling is cheaper than a full redesign? Maybe people don't like beads? Maybe some people don't like the comet?

The Torque and Meteor are now on the approved list.
Could the Meteor be a re-tooled Comet?



One can only hope. That'd be awesome, except for the fact that perfection is just that: perfection. Why would they re-tool anything about that awesome mold?



Retooling is cheaper than a full redesign? Maybe people don't like beads? Maybe some people don't like the comet?



Blasphemy! :D

I dig the Comet. Even when I get a brand new one, it feels and flies like an old friend.

The Torque and Meteor are now on the approved list.
Could the Meteor be a re-tooled Comet?



The Meteor is the "ACE Race disc". Flies like a faster Comet. :eek: :cool:

The Torque and Meteor are now on the approved list.
Could the Meteor be a re-tooled Comet?



The Meteor is the "ACE Race disc". Flies like a faster Comet. :eek: :cool:



Then what is the torque? New driver possibly?

The Torque and Meteor are now on the approved list.
Could the Meteor be a re-tooled Comet?



The Meteor is the "ACE Race disc". Flies like a faster Comet. :eek: :cool:



Then what is the torque? New driver possibly?



No it is also a midrange disc :D

The Torque is supposed to be a re-tooled MRV.

The Torque is supposed to be a re-tooled MRV.


"How do I throw my re-Tooled MRV?" /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D

The Torque is supposed to be a re-tooled MRV.



The "Torq" is a midrange with stability between a Wasp and Drone, with good glide. Everyone at the USADGC got one in their player's pack :D:D

The Torque is supposed to be a re-tooled MRV.



And the Meteor is a retooled Torque ;)

The Torque is supposed to be a re-tooled MRV.



The "Torq" is a midrange with stability between a Wasp and Drone, with good glide. Everyone at the USADGC got one in their player's pack :D:D



I have heard they were understable. Very understable. That doesnt sound very wasp or drone-like. Was I told wrong?

I have heard they were understable. Very understable. That doesnt sound very wasp or drone-like. Was I told wrong?



With good form, they should fly similar to a wasp. In my limited experience, they are a tad more understable than a wasp.

I have heard they were understable. Very understable. That doesnt sound very wasp or drone-like. Was I told wrong?



With good form, they should fly similar to a wasp. In my limited experience, they are a tad more understable than a wasp.


Wouldn't that be a buzzz?
It sounds like Discraft is trying to overlap as many midranges as possible. So if you want something straight, you could go with a.....x-wasp,d-wasp,z-buzzz,esp-buzzz,x-buzzz,z-comet,x-comet,torq,mrv,meteor,buzzz-gt,challenger,banger-gt,hawk,storm,eclipse

The Torque is supposed to be a re-tooled MRV.



The "Torq" is a midrange with stability between a Wasp and Drone, with good glide. Everyone at the USADGC got one in their player's pack :D:D



I have heard they were understable. Very understable. That doesnt sound very wasp or drone-like. Was I told wrong?



Sounds like someone was talking about the Ace Race Disc (Metor). While "understable", throw it on a flat line and it will glide forever.

Thats probably likely. I dont plan on throwing them anyways, just curious.

The torq has alot of low speed fade but incredible glide. I've been able to put it on many lines and it holds til it slows down, then the wasp/drone characteristics shine through. Its a nice disc.

Perhaps this post should be renamed "talking about Discraft" as the last time Keith responded to anything was 11-03-05.

Perhaps this post should be renamed "talking about Discraft" as the last time Keith responded to anything was 11-03-05.



I second. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I have heard they were understable. Very understable. That doesnt sound very wasp or drone-like. Was I told wrong?



With good form, they should fly similar to a wasp. In my limited experience, they are a tad more understable than a wasp.



I can get more distance out of the Torq then the Wasp. I think this comes from a combination of more glide and faster flight characteristics.

I would argue that the high speed stability of the Torq is less then the Wasp, but the low speed fade of the Torq is definately greater.

The only time I had the Torq pull over to the right on me was I either released it with slight anhyzer, or broke my wrist.

Perhaps this post should be renamed "talking about Discraft" as the last time Keith responded to anything was 11-03-05.



I second. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



With Discraft offering 10k for a new distance record using their product [marketing idea] maybe they should pay Keith's PDGA dues, so he (or someone) would as part of his employment post the official company response. (Keith is not PDGA current). Or maybe Discraft decided that this is not the best forum for their marketing. If so I hope they reconsider.

Is the torq a little like the Gremlin?

Just a guess, but is it not frustrating to you Discraft loyalists to not have cyber/DISCussion Board responses directly from above? Granted, there are quite a few sponsored players who chime in with accurate information...

I carry discs from the Big-3 and having the "Ask Dave" Dunipace and McCormack threads is a BIG PLUS...to hear info straight from the source. Discraft ought to sponsor one of you Board/bored regulars to take this Catbird Seat... Just a thought...
.02

I do my best to chime in when I can, but My-Hero has "Much" more free time on his hands I suspect /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif, and is a wealth of knowledge. As far as I'm concerned, Discraft sponsored players are part-time employees so in effect your hearing it from the source... well sort of. :D

Thanks Jim, just don't let "work" know about this "free" time. Also, are you asking me to be more productive on this MB? No way! I have a MB roll model.....known as Hysell. :D

Discraft would like to thank all our team players who respond to these posts, as they do a great job of this. Time working on developing new products and getting the product out to you is what Discraft employees are busy doing and we appreciate the teams support. :cool:

Its not frustating to me in the least. I can't believe the amount of inane questions that Dave D painstackingly answers on a daily basis. My point was that for what ever reason (good bad or indiffernt) Keith does not monitor the Board and the name is not an accurate one. Being from MN home of D
Carft heavies like TG, Cale and John D I cant get all the information I ever need to know on a weekly basis while playing.

Agreed. I understand why Keith would not want to spewnd his time answering questions on this bored. I don't think I could do what Dave D does for more than one day. "Dave do you find any difference between red teerexes and redish oragne teerexes?"...who the F*&% cares!

I am pretty sure Keith still watches this board to see what people are saying about Discrafts new discs (ie The Meteor), plastic etc.