the flash i was wondering about is orange and may be first run, but doubt, i got it at an ice bowl in january

Common Johnny Hero, next year you'll be too old!


.
.
.
.
Now that was funny. I will be one year closer to Master's age. :D

My soft magnet is about 5 yrs old. It's perfect into a 30mph head wind. Just aim and push and it flies soooo straight.

Is this info right? Seems to good to be true. Looks like i may need to run an event in the DFW area.

Need plastic for your tournament? Click here! (http://www.discraft.com/Web%20Pages/TDSpecials.html)

Did anyone have the opportunity to throw these sweet looking discs yet? :D

I know that the CryZtal plastic makes the Challengers more overstable than other plastics do....so that leaves me to believe that it might produce a more stable Buzzz (Comparable to my totally flat 1st run?)

Is the rumor I heard true? Will Z-Comets soon be available as a mass production disc?

It is true :D, soon:
http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3123-EZCMT

Is the rumor I heard true? Will Z-Comets soon be available as a mass production disc?



Not to steal anyone's thunder, but a "limited" run of Z-Comets is right around the corner. As far as I know they haven't decided to make it a full production disc. But with the love this disc is sure to receive, can't it only be a matter of time? :)

Now if they would only make the CT Challenger a normal production disc. They are SWEEETTT!!! :D

Now if they would only make the CT Challenger a normal production disc. They are SWEEETTT!!!



I agree with you. Thats what i was banging all my putts with this weekend. White 2nd run 173 CT Challenger baby and i have plenty of them to last me a liftime. Id say i have about 15 of the white ones and 3 1st Run orange ones :D

Now if they would only make the CT Challenger a normal production disc. They are SWEEETTT!!!



I agree with you. Thats what i was banging all my putts with this weekend. White 2nd run 173 CT Challenger baby and i have plenty of them to last me a liftime. Id say i have about 15 of the white ones and 3 1st Run orange ones :D



Those could become extremely collectable if Cam becomes a PGA ball golfer. :D

I am loving the White CT Challengers(172g). These things are money. I pray to God that if Cam goes ball golfer...that Keith and company will decide to run the CT's in regular production. They were my saving grace too in BG this past weekend...even though I played like *****.

Why isn't there a TM(trademark) next to the Venom stamp?

Keith!!! Say it ain't so! :eek: I hear that the Wildcat is coming out quite different these days. Pease enlighten me.

I am slowly gravitating towards all discraft, not intentionally I am just liking their discs more and more. I heard the Wildcat is like the valkrie, if it is changed that just adds to the list of Innova I throw that I cannot find a good discraft replacement for. Could someone enlighten me about these discs discraft counterparts?

Innova I cannot live without...
Firebird?
Starfire?
Orc?
Beast - Discraft Crush, but it does not feel good in the hands to me.
Teebird?
Valkrie?
Leopard?

I am slowly gravitating towards all discraft, not intentionally I am just liking their discs more and more. I heard the Wildcat is like the valkrie, if it is changed that just adds to the list of Innova I throw that I cannot find a good discraft replacement for. Could someone enlighten me about these discs discraft counterparts?

Innova I cannot live without...
Firebird?
Starfire?
Orc?
Beast - Discraft Crush, but it does not feel good in the hands to me.
Teebird?
Valkrie?
Leopard?



Firebird- Predator
TeeBird- Z XS or maybe Z XL
leopard- Stratus

Not too sure about Orc+ Starfire since I've never thrown them.

Beast and Flash might be comparable.

Yes, i think the Flash is closer to the beast than the Crush. Those later run Crushes are sweet and STABLE!

X-Crush flies similar (but longer) to a DX Beast for me.

hey I dunno if this has ever been asked before but...

as an avid Ulti player (after DG of course) I use the ultra-star alot...

I was wondering if DisCraft ever put out a z-Ultrastar or thought about it...

that'd be sweet!

Keith? thanks :D

Yeah, but no matter the weight, I easily flip Crushes and Flashes. I mainly used a Flash as a roller.

The Beast is still a turnover disc for me, but it comes back at the end. I liked the D-Venom, really-really-straight but I am afraid that after a few inadvertant wacks to a tree or rocks it will start to turn over.

Hello All,

Tafe, the latest Z-Wildcats are a little more overstable and seem to hold a line better. Haven't heard anything else than that.

Parkn, I would say the following are similar:
FB-Flick
SF-Crush
OR-Flash
BT-Predator
TB-Talon
VK-Wildcat
LP-XL

Jaymo, an Elite-Z Ultra-Star would be way too heavy. Not sure how it would fly and not really worth testing with everything else going on.

dang... that'd be sweet though... there's no mass reducing additive that you could put in?

anyways, thanks

Keith,

I have an older magnet that looks like this:

http://www.centxdglove.com/uploads/6e_1_b.jpg


My question is, do you remember a run with this stamp? It looks more like a decal, or more like the supercolor shrink than a stamp. I'm wondering if it is legal to use in PDGA comp. If it came from the factory like this, it would be legal, right?

Hey Keith,

Any chance of a Z-Drone in the works? They are the GREATEST sidearm mid range! After one round at Idlewild in Cincy, it doesn't turn anymore... :(

Thanks!

Daniel

Hey Keith,
I thought you guys had given up on the Elite X Crush because the plastic didn't take to the mold. Now, Sun King (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3122-XCRSH) is taking preorders. What happened to change X Crushes?

Parkn, I would say the following are similar:
FB-Flick
SF-Crush
OR-Flash
BT-Predator
TB-Talon
VK-Wildcat
LP-XL




Is VK a Viking or Valkyrie?

PT Woods
# 20431

I assumed he meant Valkrie, since that is what I asked about in the original post.

I would be very interested in a Z Drone, from what I heard about the X's the Z Drone would be game changing. Z buzz, wasp, drone... nice lineup.

As far as i know the Drone is ONLY made in D plastic right now and is stable enough as it is. There is NO NEED for a Z Drone that would be even more OVERSTABLE.

Keith told me they do not have the capability to do the Drone in Z because of issues with the plastic. It will either not set up correctly or something to that effect. Just throw the D plastic, it should be stable enough! :)

I would be very interested in a Z Drone, from what I heard about the X's the Z Drone would be game changing. Z buzz, wasp, drone... nice lineup.



Do you really need something a lot more overstable than a Z Wasp?

The new D plastic is fine as long as you don't hit any [sharp knarly] ROCKS. I hit one bad the otherday and it took a [hefty] chunk of plastic off my Drone. Not a pretty sight on a disc that is only a week or two used. Makes me hesitate to throw the Drone unless I absolutely have to. I really haven't noticed it being more usefull than my heavy 178 Wasp, which I'm very used to throwing in windy conditions.
I'm not so sure i like the new D plastic, it seems a little soft, especially for use on a rocky, tree covered course like the one I play on every day. Even X plastic takes a brutal beating here. Z and Champion are the ticket.

Hello,

John, I don't have any idea about the Magnet in the pic. If it looks like a sticker it was done after leaving here and would not be legal.

Discndude and jj, We can't run the new Drone or Venom in Elite-X or Z plastic yet. The weights are too heavy when we tested them. The Pro-D is all we will have for now.

DGDayDreamer, We changed the Elite-X mixture ever so slightly to compensate for the troubles in running the Crush.

Primetime, Parkn is right, I meant the Valk.

Umm, BigDG...Yes, there is a need for the Drone in Z plastic. It's not to make it more overstable, just LAST LONGER. My D-Drone got beat to you-know-what in just a few rounds. (Not from hitting trees, mind you...it's the concrete retaining walls at Idlewild... :() It goes absolutely straight for my forehand shots now and doesn't hyzer like it should...I imagine that z plastic would last a bit longer...

Keith,
I noticed people were mentioning a new run of the Z-crushes that were more overstable. I won one (174g) in Bowling Green this year and it is domey, super domey. And it is nice and stable. Is this just a freak drying side effect, or are the new crushes all going to be domey. I could barely get this disc to turn over. Thanks.

I heard the new Z Wildcats are coming out more stable as well, and if thats the case I may start throwing them as more of a main driver instead of the Utility disc i use them for now :D

Keith,
I noticed people were mentioning a new run of the Z-crushes that were more overstable. I won one (174g) in Bowling Green this year and it is domey, super domey. And it is nice and stable. Is this just a freak drying side effect, or are the new crushes all going to be domey. I could barely get this disc to turn over. Thanks.



1st run Crushes are more understable than all later runs. The 1st runs were flat and the later runs that I've seen have all been more domey.

I heard the new Z Wildcats are coming out more stable as well, and if thats the case I may start throwing them as more of a main driver instead of the Utility disc i use them for now :D



Like the 1st run Z Wildcats? That would be SWEET!

In the opaque plastic?!?! Give me!!!!

Umm, BigDG...Yes, there is a need for the Drone in Z plastic. It's not to make it more overstable, just LAST LONGER. My D-Drone got beat to you-know-what in just a few rounds. (Not from hitting trees, mind you...it's the concrete retaining walls at Idlewild... ) It goes absolutely straight for my forehand shots now and doesn't hyzer like it should...I imagine that z plastic would last a bit longer...




Find a way to make them in the Z-plastic....and I'll be all over that disc. And I have a feeling I would not be alone.

Current mid-ranges....Z-Buzzz, Z-Wasp, Z-Extreme (skip shots...it's a first run, and still works like the first day)

;)

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZ!

Where can I find 1st Run ZBUZZZZZZ

Anyone want to trade for red or purple

I have some. Shoot me a PM and we might be able to work something out.

The only deal I would work out with you would be for you to pay me XXX amount for me not to beat you down, you loudmouth jackass

:eek:

The only deal I would work out with you would be for you to pay me XXX amount for me not to beat you down, you loudmouth jackass



So do you plan on being like all these other sissys on here and just hiding behind your computer and talking trash to me because you know I would either A: Beat the living hell out of you if you talked that trash to my face B: Beat your ***** on the course and your too embarassed to post your real name and PDGA # or C: You just have no life and dont even know me and you dont want anyone to know your just talking completely out of your sphincter :eek:

Or are you going to put up your name and PDGA # like a real man???

I think his name is David Thompson

Where those questions to keith m?

Keith:

I was wondering if you would make the wasp or buzzz in D plastic comparable to the Cam Todd Challengers. Something stiffer and more durable. Or will they be molded in the Drone D plastic? That stuff is sweet.

Thanks!

Hey Erik,

The next runs of the Pro-D Wasp and Buzzz will be in a blend similar to the Drone and Venom. They should be very grippy!

What will become of the Cam Todd Challenger?

It is a sweet disc, my favorite putter.

Will you still be making them? Perhaps offer them as a tournament fundraiser disc like the Crystal Challenger, or even a regular run item.

That settles it. I'm gonna buy the hell outta some Buzzzs and wasps. Thanks Keith!

That settles it. I'm gonna buy the hell outta some Buzzzs and wasps. Thanks Keith!




Your not kidding. I may even get rid of my Z Wasps if the new wasps are going to be in the DRONE plastic. That plastic is AWESOME!!!!!!!! Even when its WET!!!!!

Keith,

Can we expect more molds in the D Plastic soon??? Maybe Predators and Wildcats???

Keith:
Do you have any information about the Avenger that you'd like to share? I got this article in the PDGA email tonight, and hadn't heard about it yet.

Discraft recently submitted the Avenger for PDGA testing. This disc was found to comply with all PDGA requirements, so it has been added to the list of PDGA-approved discs. Test measurements are listed here: Avenger; Certification No. 05-8; Outside diameter: 21.2 cm; Height: 1.7 cm; Rim depth: 1.2 cm; Rim thickness: 1.9 cm; Inside rim diameter: 17.4 cm; Flexibility rating: 12.25 kg; Rim configuration rating: 26.25 ; Maximum weight allowed: 176.0 g -

I'm dumb at reading the standards and determining what the shape will be, so if anyone can tell me what this will look like based on the above, I'd appreciate it. (It's probably not a mid-range, based on the max weight.)

Any info would be greatly appreciated! :D

Hello Everyone,

Regarding the CT Challengers, some of the Pro-D Challengers on the shelf have been pretty hard. Keep checking different colors when shopping around.

Pimp, no plans right now for a Pro-D Predator or Wildcat. We had the Wildcat in the Photon UV plastic which was very similar to the Pro-D blend and it didn't receive much fanfare.

Erik, the Avenger is a new driver we are making. We used it as the prototype for the Discraft One Disc Challenge on 4/27 in Ann Arbor and received a great response. It is in the Predator/Wildcat family and is right in the middle of the two as far as stability is concerned. This disc will only be available as a 2005 Players Cup fundraiser that you can purchase through Sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com) soon.

Keith, please let us know when they become available.

Greetings Keith,

Hey man quick question: Will the new Pro-D plastic be featured in the Magnet mold?? If so, I CAN'T WAIT!!!!

I LOVE the new grippy pro-d plastic...I met you at worlds during payout (i'm the guy who grabbed about 10 magnets) and you did a great job with everything...

Regards,
mc

p.s. if this question was answered in a previous post I apologize.

Come on Keith...it sounds like there is enough of a following to make the CT Challenger a regular production disc. I have a nice reserve of them...but don't like having to hunt all over God's green creation to find some. Please...make them a regular production disc.

Greetings Keith,

quick question: Will the new Pro-D plastic be featured in the Magnet mold??

mc

Erik, the Avenger is a new driver we are making. We used it as the prototype for the Discraft One Disc Challenge on 4/27 in Ann Arbor and received a great response. It is in the Predator/Wildcat family and is right in the middle of the two as far as stability is concerned. This disc will only be available as a 2005 Players Cup fundraiser that you can purchase through Sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com) soon.



I threw this disc yesterday (171g) and it is a little more stable than a wildcat. It turned over with just a firm throw. It feels great and the plastic feels awesome. It is a pretty fast disc too. Although I think it is very far away from a predator. This disc seems to hold a late turn for me.

I threw the new Avenger and the plastic and overall feel of the disc is AWESOME. I didn't experience the same flight characteristics as Booty at all. I realize he throws quite a bit harder and farther, but they flew pretty darn stable for me. I threw 168 grams, and they didn't turn at all even with me trying. I would definitely say they are less stable than the Predator, but not flippy in the least for me. Very quick and will be a nice addition to the bag! Give me more please :D

I think mine will be here tomorrow...........or at least something is coming from MI tomorrow! :)

Looking forward to seeing/feeling/throwing it!

I threw the new Avenger and the plastic and overall feel of the disc is AWESOME. I didn't experience the same flight characteristics as Booty at all. I realize he throws quite a bit harder and farther, but they flew pretty darn stable for me. I threw 168 grams, and they didn't turn at all even with me trying. I would definitely say they are less stable than the Predator, but not flippy in the least for me. Very quick and will be a nice addition to the bag! Give me more please :D



I think the one I threw had a small defect on the rim. I threw Brad's 168g discs and they were a little more stable but they still hold a slow right turn, no predator I have ever had has held a turn throwing flat but all my wildcats have. This disc pretty much goes straight for me with hardly any fall off at the end. It is a very nice disc.

Are the newer Z-Crushes coming out Domey? I got one, and it is NICE and stable. Good turn to gain the right distance and finish with a solid left.

Flat Crushes are just too flippy for me, but if the new ones are coming out domey, then I will start to look for them. But if it is just a cooling anomoly then I will not hold my breath.


BTW, I just found two 1st run Z-Buzzz's at a Toy retailer for $15 a piece, I snatched them up really quick. :D

Try the D Crushes. They are REAL stable :D

Come play my home course. Very rocky soil, base of the appliachains. Anything besides candy just gets chewed to crud and flippy.

I've noticed that the newer Crush runs have been quite a bit more ovrstable than the 1st runs.

I've noticed that the newer Crush runs have been quite a bit more ovrstable than the 1st runs.



Cool, now if only I could throw them farther then my Orc's

BTW, I just found two 1st run Z-Buzzz's at a Toy retailer for $15 a piece, I snatched them up really quick. :D



I'm guessing you like the flat 1st run Buzzz's for the same reason I do...they are more stable.
You should try out the CryZtal Buzzz! I got one in my players pack for the Fox Valley Open and that thing is STABLE. It can take a lot of snap and not turn over. Definately more stable than the 1st run Z's.

I have seen the crystal Buzzz, but the weight range 173-178 printed on it kept me from buying it. I use 173's for turnovers, if it had a smaller range, 176-178 then perhaps I would have bought it.

Wow. I've never seen that spread before. It's usually a 2g spread. What gives?

only a 2g spread? that's the Crystal Challenger.. The crystal Buzzz that i have says 173-178 also.
the challenger i have says 172-175 i think..

-Scott Lewis

the challenger i have says 172-175 i think..



Challenger.....172-174g

174g is the max on that diameter of discraft discs.

Keith I am a huge fan of the Venom, it flys just as stable, and with more glide than my E spirits. However, I am looking for Something to last at this stability for a long time, therefore the question is when are they coming out in Z plastic? Also LOVE the drone, when's that coming out in Z plastic? Thank you

Keith,

When will more Avenger's come off of the press?

Keith I am a huge fan of the Venom, it flys just as stable, and with more glide than my E spirits. However, I am looking for Something to last at this stability for a long time, therefore the question is when are they coming out in Z plastic? Also LOVE the drone, when's that coming out in Z plastic? Thank you



I'd guess that both won't be out in Z for a long time for the same reason Illusions and Demons can't be run in clear "E"....they come off the mold too heavy in euretheyne to be legal. Both have too much mass on the rim to easily be ran in high end polyuretheyne.

I doubt Keith reads this thread anymore :confused: :confused: it's pointless to ask questions if he will never reply.

He's only 23 posts behind :)

The Venom is essentially a flick that's retooled, so i see no problems running that in Z. As for the drone, I compared it to the demon and its not nearly as beefy (or overstable for that matter).

The venom is the same thing as an illusion. Gateway has issues when trying to run E illusions, so it doesn't surprise me that discraft can't run z-drones.

The drone is similar to the demon. I don't think that gateway has run E-demons because of the same reason that they can't run illusions(too heavy). Therefore discraft can't do the drones in Zplastic

They ran some Venoms in Z Plastic but they are too heavy and illegal and they arent running and Z Drones for the Exact same reason.

Hello All,

Mike, must have missed your question before, yes the Magnet will be tried in the new Pro-D blend. As soon as it goes up for it's next run. We have already run Challengers and Buzzz's in that mix and they feel great.

Regarding the Venom, it has a thicker top than the Flick and a little more edge that is what makes it heavier. The top and rim are what makes running the Drone in anything but Pro-D impossible also.

The Avenger will be produced in a couple of different materials and will start selling on Sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com) in early June.

I'm digging the Avenger. A stable disc with glide! Yee-Haw!

So both the venom and drone are destined for D only?

The Venom is essentially a flick that's retooled, so i see no problems running that in Z. As for the drone, I compared it to the demon and its not nearly as beefy (or overstable for that matter).



I wasn't saying they ness. fly the same, I was merely saying that the molds are massive and can't produce PDGA legal discs in the tough stuff.

Essentially, the Venom and the Drone are "scooped-out" molds. With the Drone mold, they took the old MRX mold and machined away metal to change the shape, I believe they did the same thing with a Flick mold for the Venom. What this means is that they are both BIGGER now. The total mass is much more than their legal precursors. When running either of these discs in different plastic, the different (x,z) plastics have a higher weight per sq. cm making the new different plastics way over legal weight limit. To successfully pull it off Discraft would have to put bubbles in the rim, and that is illegal.
Just wait for an X Flick, and an Avenger.
C'mon KEITH!!! X-Flick!

What this means is that they are both BIGGER now. The total mass is much more than their legal precursors. When running either of these discs in different plastic, the different (x,z) plastics have a higher weight per sq. cm making the new different plastics way over legal weight limit. To successfully pull it off Discraft would have to put bubbles in the rim, and that is illegal.




Yeah, thats the SAME reason its hard to run Spirits and Illusions in the clear stuff....its too hefty!

I copied and pasted this comment from the innova website.

Smells Like Team Spirit!
Kevin McCoy has been playing some solid golf, and has been promoted to Team Champion. He won at the Haikey Creek Classic in Tulsa and is donating his winnings to Steve Neagle of Tulsa whose house was destroyed by fire. That's the spirit, Kevin.

Why did Discraft kick him off the team? He does seem to be a real *****

Why did Discraft kick him off the team? He does seem to be a real *****



Your actually a real A HOLE because he wasnt KICKED OFF of any team. He QUIT team Discraft so before you start flapping your man juice dumpster, please know your facts.

Thanks and have a nice day.

so before you start flapping your man juice dumpster



Tell us how you really feel Steve. LMAO! :D

You like that one Hero??? :D

Hello All,

Mike, must have missed your question before, yes the Magnet will be tried in the new Pro-D blend. As soon as it goes up for it's next run.



Keith, you are THE MAN!!!!! Can't wait to by up a butt load of em'. Keep up the good work!

mc

Just wanted to ask about the X crushes. The new run seems to be much stiffer than the previous fundraiser elite crushes
(black) I guess the A3 white ones were pretty stiff. But as such, they are throwing much farther and holding a line better. Is this a new mix of elite plastic? I noticed the same thing in the predators. Especially the new pink ones.

Hahaha pink predators.
Love it.

Just wanted to ask about the X crushes. The new run seems to be much stiffer than the previous fundraiser elite crushes
(black) I guess the A3 white ones were pretty stiff. But as such, they are throwing much farther and holding a line better. Is this a new mix of elite plastic? I noticed the same thing in the predators. Especially the new pink ones.

Hahaha pink predators.
Love it.



The way I heard, was that they tweaked the blend a little so it would run easier in the wide rimmed molds such as the Crush.

Why did Discraft kick him off the team? He does seem to be a real *****



Your actually a real A HOLE because he wasnt KICKED OFF of any team. He QUIT team Discraft so before you start flapping your man juice dumpster, please know your facts.

Thanks and have a nice day.



Steve, take your own advise, you don't know anythig either. Thanks have a nice day!

Steve, take your own advise, you don't know anythig either. Thanks have a nice day!




You mean I dont know that he was going to be suspended for 6 months from the team so then he QUIT!!! Is that what your talking about Ben???

Congrats to Kevin! That is too cool! He has earned it.

Where's my Champion Edition Aviar with McCoy's Signature stamped on it??

Everybody knows that stupid, like I said before, shut up, you don't know everything. Take your own advise and close your man pleaser......

what in the he11 are you two fussin about on this thread for? It's been 6 months.

Build a bridge and get over it! ;)

This thread is to ask Keith REALLY important questions like DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THE PISTONS ARE GONNA BEAT THE HEAT?

;)

I just hate when people don't take their own advise.

and he's such an easy target!

Did i say I know EVERYTHING. No I didnt I just told him that he didnt know what he was talking about. You guys on here are such cry babies. How about you guys relax a little??? I mean seriously. Everytime I say anything someone has a comment about it or gets upset about it. Why do you guys care so much about what I have to say or what I think???

Build a bridge and get over it!




.....but Ron and Cam are not current with the PDGA. :) :D :p


correction: Ron is current

Keith,

Who does the stability testing at Discraft?

I wonder because of a few things.

The Wasp and the MRV have the same rating.
The Venom and the Flick are the same rating.

What part of the flight is being considered when given the stability rating? The high speed portion, or the fade at the end?

Obviously when I get the disc on the course I find out how it really flys, but I threw the Venom before I knew it's rating and it was just dead as an arrow straight. But the rating came out and description as 2.0 and overstable.

I am just confused.

Hey Parkn,

We have a number of people throw the disc and get their feedback. We are looking at the overall flight of the disc with the fade at the end being of perticular intrest. It is also rated with a Right Hand, Back Hand, Medium speed throw in mind. Stability ratings are just a guide to help point people in the right direction for what discs to choose.

The Wasp should be listed at a 2 in the Elite-Z plastic. It is more overstable than an MRV. I'll have to look into that one.

The 150 Flick is rated as a 2, the heavy Flicks now say 2.5. There was a mix up when making the original plate and 2 was put for the stability on the first few. We certainly feel that the Venom is an overstable driver for the average disc golfer.

It is also rated with a Right Hand, Back Hand, Medium speed throw in mind. We certainly feel that the Venom is an overstable driver for the average disc golfer.



AH HA!

I throw very fast RHBH, I typically use the slowest discs I can for a shot, ie anything under 425ft I will use a Talon, X2, XL or a slower disc, Buzzz's/Wasp's up to 350ft depending on elevation. I rarely use the newer high speed drivers because most courses around here do not justify them for me.

I can definately see the Venom being overstable for slower throwers just not for fast throwers, it is all clear now. Thanks.

Ok, sorry if this is a repeat guys but just wondering if it's true that discraft and stopped production on the APX and APX swirl. My girlfriend has used the swirl for 2+ years and just wondering if she should switch putters. Saw this on an online dealer site and just curious. Again, sorry if this has been covered before.

the swirl is out of production now. thats according to our local pro, Mr John My_Hero, and at least two of the larger online sites.

it will be missed! :(

You might want to ask Keith on the "Ask Keith M." thread. Luckily I have a few. ;)

Hello everyone,

We have discontinued the Elite-X and Swirl APX, however we are currently running Elite-X Soft APX's that feel great! When we talked with people regarding the Swirls the response was it was the feel not the look that mattered. Since the Swirl machine gives us such headaches to run we decided to switch to normal colors. Look for the Soft APX to be available locally in the next 3-4 weeks.

What Innova disc is the Talon most like?

Hello Asimo,

I would guess it is similar to a t-bird.

It is similar to the overstable runs of the Champion Teebirds.

Keith, is the 2nd run of Avengers out yet? Just wondering if they fly like the 1st run. I really like my 1st run.

How do the Z-Avengers differ?

It is similar to the overstable runs of the Champion Teebirds.



Very true that the Talon is like brand new never thrown Champion Teebird, but the main difference that I see between the handling of these two discs has to do with rim depth. The Teebird has a deeper rim and will hold more air under it then the Talon. Therefore when throw exactly the same the Talon will basically "fall out of the sky". The Talon needs to have a lot of speed behind it to keep it up, so I would not recommend it to a beginner.

On the flip side, I did get my first ace ever with a 174g Z-Talon, it was a line drive skip ace on the very first throw of the tournament.

Even though I prefer the Talon over the Teebird I use them pretty much interchangeably and the decision is made based on elevation changes and wind conditions. Also my Talon is what I consider "beat to death" and it still holds a straight line even thrown hard and will still finish with a nice hard left fade.

Keith,

I have an orange 174g Z-Talon that is really hard, and another of same weight and color that is again really hard. But I also have a white one of same plastic and weight that is very flexible and grippy.

I prefer the harder version, is the white one just some anomoly or has the formula changed? The white disc is my second back up but it appears to have the same stability as the orange ones. It still makes me wonder, what gives?

I think I can answer that from my long love-affair with Talons:

The white and butter-yellow Z-Talons that first came out were less overstable and slightly less durable than the later runs. The ones that I throw are the max weight reddish-pink ones, and I have a stash of them to last a lifetime. They are markedly more overstable than the earlier ones, and quite a bit more durable. The first red Z-Talon I ever got is now a trusted roller. They're great discs.

PS. I think that the rim on a Talon is slightly larger than a Teebird, but I could be crazy.

2 weeks ago I was checking out some tournament plastic at The Riverside Glide and noticed the challengers were made in the new pro-D plastic....Wow, I could not believe how grippy it was without losing any stiffness.

Keith, have the new Pro-D Magnets been run yet??

Thanks dude,
mc

Keith:

I sent you an email about custom wedding minis. Holler!

Erik

Are those new challengers available at the online sites yet? I felt one that someone got at the Hambrick and I need to get some. They felt awesome!

Keith:

I sent you an email about custom wedding minis. Holler!

Erik



Erik,

I did the same thing it was a great hit with the guests, everyone loved them. But hardly anyone took them home with them, so now I have a stash of 150 mini's. I think that is about 30 lifetimes worth of them!

I've been throwing a few avengers in my regular bag(especially recently) and they seem to be more durable than other elite-x discs. I notice they don't have elite-x on them anywhere so I'm curious if there's a new x blend or if this is sort of a dummy run of an experimental plastic.

I have one in particular, a 168 white with red stamped avenger that I have hit all sorts of undesirable materials with and it still flys the same as it did when I got it. I have hit the road with it quite a few times and it seems to be wearing like it's made of z plastic.

Keith:

I sent you an email about custom wedding minis. Holler!

Erik



Erik,

I did the same thing it was a great hit with the guests, everyone loved them. But hardly anyone took them home with them, so now I have a stash of 150 mini's. I think that is about 30 lifetimes worth of them!



That's EXACTLY what I am hoping will happen! We're getting 150, and I think we'll have about 80 left (conservative estimate). 80 minis with a picture of me and my wife on them? Heaven! I'll be donating them to local tournaments until we're old and gray! No one will forget our anniversary!


It's hard for me to see a down side. BTW, how did yours turn out? Were they magnets or mini-ultrastars? We're getting the full color ultrastars, and I am anxious to see how they'll look.

Erik

Cool!

Send me one, and Congrats! :D

Congrats Erik.

Send one of those my way as well :D

Congrats Erik, if you need advice, just ask...I've survived 3.5 years so far! :D

Congrats Erik, if you need advice, just ask...I've survived 3.5 years so far! :D



You mean to tell me that there's a Mrs. Dirty out there? Now I've heard everything!

Come on now Erik
You know youll have heard everything when there is a Mrs DiscPimp :eek:

I have a Miss DiscPimp right now and have for almost 7 months now :D Watch out for her. She will be tearing up the mens Rec division at a course near you in the future :D

Go get 'em, lady Pimp!

Congrats Erik, if you need advice, just ask...I've survived 3.5 years so far! :D



You mean to tell me that there's a Mrs. Dirty out there? Now I've heard everything!



Yes there is, and she's the boss :o

Bump.


2 weeks ago I was checking out some tournament plastic at The Riverside Glide and noticed the challengers were made in the new pro-D plastic....Wow, I could not believe how grippy it was without losing any stiffness.

Keith, have the new Pro-D Magnets been run yet??

Thanks dude,
mc

...the challengers were made in the new pro-D plastic....Wow, I could not believe how grippy it was without losing any stiffness.

Thanks dude



Ditto, I love my Pro-D Challengers.

Best putter in the WORLD!

Now only if I could find more, no local dealers carry them so I have to buy online and it is a crap-shot if I get the new or old ones. And I can hardly find white ones. :(

Hello all,

Mike, we haven't run the Magnets with the new mix. We will be testing it when they go up in the next few weeks.

Pat, the Elite-X Avengers are the same blend as always. Not sure why they seem more durable to you.

I use the D Challenger for throwing only. I also really liked the white ones. The lavender-ish blue ones are virtually identical. Give 'em a shot.

Now, if only I could get a Z APX, I might not need a new D Challenger every two weeks!

Keith,

There are not any plans to discontinue the Z-Talon and Z-XL any time soon is there?

Not that I have heard any rumors or anything, they are just two of my favorite discs. And I would be really dissapointed if they were discontinued. I love the Talon because it is a great disc for shots 350-400ft that I can just chuck regardless of the wind and it will always finish left. And the XL is just like a longer sharper edged Buzzz. Keep it up. :D

Hi, Keith
what kind of driver is the new 21,2 m Tracker? When is it coming out?

Its more of a control driver then a long distance driver. I carry 2 in my bag and they take about the same flight path at my 1st Run BUZZZ except the Tracker gets about 30 more feet of flight. So all those holes I used to want to throw my BUZZZ on before but knew I would be short I now just throw my Tracker. I can get it about 390-400 on a flat straight flightpath :D These are a great addition to my bag. These and the Avenger :D

Yeppers...can't wait.

Z-Avengers, Trackers, and Soft APX's should arrive today (as long as UPS holds up theire end of the deal.) :) Feedback soon. Thanks for the review Mr. MillZ.

I can get it about 390-400 on a flat straight flightpath :D



So this would replace the XL and XS? Because that is what I can do with those.

Its more stable then the XL and XS. The Tracker doesnt have to be thrown with Hyzer :D

Thanks for the info Big...., sounds interresting ! :D

Hi all,

Parkn, no plans at all to discontinue the Elite-Z XL or Talon.

Mf100, the Tracker will be a limited edition disc that we are thinking about offering in the Elite-X line and fundraising with in the Elite-Z. Should have more details in the next month or so on release dates.

I haven't heard anything about an Ace Race this year. Is it happening?

So, is the tracker a Teebird type disc?

I haven't heard anything about an Ace Race this year. Is it happening?



Discraft's International One Disc Ace Race is alive and well. You can register your site here (http://www.sportdiscs.com/diodarrequest.html) . Submissions are already coming in and we will have the calander up at Sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com) soon.

Keith, any chance there will be a run of some dyed Z Storms in the future?
I love this disc in the Z plastic!

Keith, do you have any TD info ready for this year's Ace Race? What's in the package, cost of package, winner's bounty?

Hi all,

Parkn, no plans at all to discontinue the Elite-Z XL or Talon.

Mf100, the Tracker will be a limited edition disc that we are thinking about offering in the Elite-X line and fundraising with in the Elite-Z. Should have more details in the next month or so on release dates.



Keith, so I take it the Tracker is not PDGA approved?

I was throwing the Tracker and Z-Avenger at Warwick yesterday. Both were sweet. The Avenger sure does feel familiar...can you say Predator :eek:! Sweet addition: the Z-Avenger throws and feels like my beat Z-pred.

Keith,

I have an old Cyclone in mint condition. I'm not really sure what type of plastic it is, but it feels a lot like Innova's SE plastic.

Just curious to see if it was worth anything?

Keith is down in Flag, preparing with Danny for Am worlds so I'll try to help ya MTL, what you have is prolly one of the signature series discs (old school Scott Stokely, Ron, or Juliana). They don't go for much more than regular retail, $10 or so.

....or just a plain jane cyclone. Does it have an oval sticker on the back with the weight hand written on the sticker?

upon further investigation, it is actually a cylcone 2 - and it is not a signature series.

The weight is written and cylcone 2 is enscribed in it (along with the city and patten #)

It has a tournament stamp that I believe is about from 7-10 years ago (not a date, just annual)

My Hero are you looking for sticker stamped cyclones? I have a blue grey max weight with a factory misprint stamp as well.

I have a couple of sticker stamped (bottom) magnets, I believe it signifies that the disc is a first run...Timmy, am I correct on that??

Thanks for the offer Brooke, but i have plenty.

Conners, that is correct! Want to get rid of them? :)

The sticker does not signify a first run. It just means extremely early, from Walled Lake not Wixom.

I was just about to edit my post with that info. :)

When did the plastic switch from being Elite to Elite-X? I have an Elite XL in the mail and am wondering if it's older than my Elite-X XL? and if the plastic is the same or if one beats up faster?

Thanx in advance.

Yes, the elite plastic was produced before the elite-X plastic. I think you'll like what's coming.

As for which one beats up faster, prolly about the same.

like so many threads, we have done some serious thread drifting.

This thread was intended to talk about my discs and the amount money they are worth, not trying to help a sponsered player get discs from his own company!

I thought he got his discs from Martin T. :D

like so many threads, we have done some serious thread drifting.

This thread was intended to talk about my discs and the amount money they are worth, not trying to help a sponsered player get discs from his own company!



Lou, Shut your pie hole! :)


Okay..............

Back to the thread topic.

Keith, may i have MTL's, and Conners valuable discs? :D

Thanks for the offer Brooke, but i have plenty.

Conners, that is correct! Want to get rid of them? :)



I use a Magnet as my primary...I have one I'm willing to get rid of, it's white with the football stamp on the bottom...I'll be at the Veterans Park A Tier tourney if you want to trade for one.

keith-- any chance of a d pred or d tsunami?

Hero, et all. I have an unthrown 97 cyclone. Your's for the taking.

Keith, I dont know if it's like this on everyones computer, but on the Discraft site the "key" on the bottom of the disc descriptions overlaps each other. Also, the APX (and swirl) is not descrided at all, but it is in the link from the X plastic.


By the way, just today, I got my first ace. It was with my Z-XS... Discraft delivered!!:D:cool:

Keith (or any old timer)...
I am going to be selling much of my collection in the next few months and I will need help dating/identifying some of the older Discraft plastic.
I remember setting aside several x-clones, cyclones etc from the late 80's. They were boxed & packed in the plastic bags you supplied to your wholesale customers and many have the powder that was everpresent in the earliest years. Probably some first run or very early runs.
Also have phantom, many skystreaks....
Can anyone out there help?
Thanks

I remember setting aside several x-clones, cyclones etc from the late 80's.



I hope you meant 1990's. Those discs date back to 1994. The "etc." discs could very well be from the late 80's. :D

You'll probably find some good help if you post pics here.

Seems like longer ago, but you are right, early 90's....
Told you I needed help with these things.
I'll post pictures when I get into those boxes.
Thanks

Mf100, the Tracker will be a limited edition disc that we are thinking about offering in the Elite-X line and fundraising with in the Elite-Z.



Does someone want to send me a half dozen of these in various plastics and max weights? I'd like to do some testing. You could have a footnote in my research paper for "Project Support." :D

I was told yesterday that the Z-Tracker will be a fund raiser disc. No other info about it being in different plastic as a full production disc was mentioned.

MillZ doesn't want his Z-Trackers anymore, so just ask him for them. He'll be glad to GIVE them to you. :p :D

MillZ doesn't want his Z-Trackers anymore, so just ask him for them. He'll be glad to GIVE them to you.



For a MILLION DOLLARS a piece :D

Hero told me last night that he didnt want his 1st Run Z BUZZZs anymore so just PM him and offer and he will be glad to work something out :D

Millz also PMed me and said that he is getting rid of all his CT challengers, and Z Tsunami's because he is switching to Rhyno's and Firebirds. :eek: :p

Hero told me last night..............



Now don't be spreading rumors. God only knows what some of the Message Boarders will have to say about you and i talking late at night! :eek: Think before typing! :D :p

Millz also PMed me and said that he is getting rid of all his CT challengers, and Z Tsunami's because he is switching to Rhyno's and Firebirds.



:eek: :eek: :eek:

By the way:

I got my wedding minis last week. They're awesome. You should all get married (or re-married) just for the sole purpose of getting wedding minis. They rule. Thanks Keith!!!

How Has the MRV mold changed since the first Run, if at all?

I have this great first Run elite MRV, and i was thinking about getting the new Z MRV, but before i buy i was wondering if the new mold has become more overstable or understable since the older disc im useing now.

thanks in advance...

How Has the MRV mold changed since the first Run, if at all?

I have this great first Run elite MRV, and i was thinking about getting the new Z MRV, but before i buy i was wondering if the new mold has become more overstable or understable since the older disc im useing now.

thanks in advance...



I have 2 Z MRVs, one older and one newer. The old one has the one line of small text stamp "DISCRAFT ELITE-Z-MRVtm PDGA APPROVED" The new one has the normal Discraft logo on one size and Elite Z MRV Stable Mid-Range Driver on the other. That is the ONLY difference between the 2.

One is 172 and one is 175. On an aside, I don't like either of these discs(just the mold in general, I'm not a fan of deep rimmed discs). If anyone is interested, I'd trade both of these for a Z Crush around 168-169(nothing 170 or greater, weak arms like mine can't throw em).

How Has the MRV mold changed since the first Run, if at all?

I have this great first Run elite MRV, and i was thinking about getting the new Z MRV, but before i buy i was wondering if the new mold has become more overstable or understable since the older disc im useing now.

thanks in advance...



They are the same mold, but the Z should be more stable because of the plastic. That old stuff can be pretty weak. If you like MRV's, figure it out now and get as many as you can. I believe they are no longer production discs.

They are the same mold, but the Z should be more stable because of the plastic.


I know that the plastic makes them more over stable, and im fine with that. i just wanted to know if the mold got more overstable also, because if that was the case, the disc wouldnt even be close to what im throwing now, and id just stick to looking for more first runs.

and is it true that MRV's arent in production?

They are the same mold, but the Z should be more stable because of the plastic.


I know that the plastic makes them more over stable, and im fine with that. i just wanted to know if the mold got more overstable also, because if that was the case, the disc wouldnt even be close to what im throwing now, and id just stick to looking for more first runs.

and is it true that MRV's arent in production?




From Keith in Jan of 2005:

Discraft_Keith


Reged: 11/04/03
Loc: Michigan Re: Question for Keith M [Re: tafe]
#296008 - 01/14/05 07:53 AM Edit Reply Quote



Hello,

Just to clarify, the models being discontinued are X-MRX, X-APX, X-X2, X-Cyclone 2, Z-Hawk, Z-Magnet, Z-X2 and Z-Xtra. We will be releasing a new driver and mid-range in the near future. No dates yet as they are still being tested. The first new item of the year will be the release of the Pro-D Crush. These feel and fly great! I'll be sure and keep you posted as new models are getting closer to being released.

--------------------
Best regards,

Keith Murray
Discraft, Inc.
www.sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com)





Couldn't find info on the MRV's fate. I know the X-Xtreme was DISContinued, but there is no mention in the above quote.

Since the majority of my bag is Discraft, I was wondering if somebody could tell me what Discraft disc might be a close comparison for these two disc's:
Champion Panther
DX Classic Roc

I rely on these two disc's a ton so I am looking for a good replacement.

And for Keith...how about the Nate Doss signature Challenger since CT isn't really around anymore???

a worn stable Z Buzz(a crystal or a 1st run) would probably be the closest thing to a panther and/or a classic Roc.

Nothing compares to the Classic Roc for Discraft. The closest thing would have to be the Breeze. Close, but not close enough. I carry four CL Rocs (1 -DX, 2 -2001 CE, 1 -2004 CE).

the crystal buzz is NOT comparable to a 1st run buzz. I carry: 1 buzzz stamped buzzz, 1 wasp stamped buzzz, and 1 crystal buzzz. That is DEFINATELY the order of stability. Wasp buzzzs go straight, buzzz buzzzs fade sooner, crystal buzzzs fly similar to a mrv, with slightly less glide.

Any plans/chance for an X -clone in Z-plastic? I think this disc in Z would be fantastic.

keith---any plans for running the predator mold in d plastic?

Hello everyone,

Back from Flagstaff and ready to get going on the One Disc Ace Race (http://www.sportdiscs.com/aceracehome.html).

little_erik_wilson, glad you liked the SuperCOLOR Mini-Stars, I thought they turned out great also.

jgarcia, no changes have been made to the MRV mold since it was designed.

Ranger, we tried running the X-Clone in Elite-Z plastic years ago and it would only run very light (130-145g). No plans on trying it again right now.

gokayaksteven, we may try and run a Pro-D Predator but not in the near future.

Are Z avengers suppose to be a bigger diameter disc than the X avenger?

As they are both Avengers, they come from the same mold. So, no. However, X plastic does shrink a little in cooling. My X Wildcats are smaller than my Z's. This probably explains any difference you might notice.

Here is a picture of the kick-as$ custom minis that Keith and the Discraft Team made for our wedding (September 17, 2005. Registered at weddingchannel.com. Many fine gifts still available ;)) The minis are mini-ultrastar, and you can see some of the grip-rings in the picture, but the effect is minimal. Long story short, these minis are awesome.

These are our sexy/pouty faces. We're cuter when smiling.

http://www.centxdglove.com/uploads/weddingmini.jpg

My friend did the design for us and thought of the caption. Just the other day, I thought of an even better caption. It would read simply, "Stable." Us DG'ers would get it, and the moms and dads would think it was cute. Oh well. C'est le vie.

Your right. Those minis are AWESOME!!!

Congrat man!!!

hey keith, will you be coming out with any new photon glow discs anytime soon?

Hey keith,
I take it you will being making more runs of the z-trackers in the future right? Please
Did I hear something about maybe making special runs of apx swirls for tournaments possibly? Please
These two disc are great, the Z-tracker just flies so straight and then hyzers a little, and this is when its brand new, so with just a little use it will be so straight. If there is a disc worth paying twenty bucks this is one of them. Help support another major, Buy the Z-Tracker, you won't regret it.

Limited edition Z-Trackers are available at http://www.sportdiscs.com/index.html

Hi All,

teenwolf, I'll get back to you on that one in a week or two.

Matt, we have what's left of the 1st 1500 Z-Trackers available now. At this point we will not be running anymore Swirl APX, they have been replaced with the Soft APX.

Will the next run of the Tracker be in Z or X plastic?

How does the Tracker differ from the Wildcat? SunKing Discs lists the Tracker and the Wildcat with the exact same ratings for Speed, Glide, Turn, and Fade. Which is more forgiving for a beginner?

Thanks in advance.

Hi Doc,

We will be testing the Tracker in the Elite-X plastic. Not sure if we will bring it out though.

Regarding the comparison to the Wildcat, I would say the Tracker is slower.

Hey keith, I tried the soft Apx's and they have the same flight characteristics as the apx swirl which is great, they are just so soft and flimsy. If they were to come out a little more rigid I think the new mold soft apx's would be great. Thats my opinion along with the loud mouth ZNash on this message board. Anybody else try these new putters and have a preference.

I also want to say the stamp on the trackers and first run avengers is a really good looking basic stamp.

Hey keith, I tried the soft Apx's and they have the same flight characteristics as the apx swirl which is great, they are just so soft and flimsy. If they were to come out a little more rigid I think the new mold soft apx's would be great. Thats my opinion along with the loud mouth ZNash on this message board. Anybody else try these new putters and have a preference.




Yeah. I say change to the Challenger :D

JK. The new soft APX is REALLY SOFT and REALLY FLIMSY so I could see how you would want a stiffer one or one closer the the density and rigidy of the swirls.

PS. I still think the Challenger is better :D

It seems like my swirls go in more than your challengers though :o.

:o

Have you tried the new soft apx's John? Just wondering your opinion on them.

It seems like my swirls go in more than your challengers though . :o



:eek: :eek: :eek:

It was 103 on Wed with a heat index of 110. They melt in TX. :D

I think between you, Danielle Vargas, and myself we've swipped all of the Swirls off of the streets. :)

I wished I would have known sooner that they were discontinuing, I found out through my other sponsor and by then discraft had gotten rid of pretty much all of them. I was able to get five more 160-163 I think. I tried to get 20 more or something but they didn't have it.

John,

I have some blue ones and some red ones if you are interested. No one around here plays with them.

Kirk

:eek: Kirk!!!!

I'll share 'em with our teammates....

John,

I have some blue ones and some red ones if you are interested. No one around here plays with them.

Kirk




See John, what colors does he have? RED!!! hahahaha

He's color blind. They are PINK! :D

John,

You are correct they "look" pink but they were listed as red on the packing list.

Kirk

Shhhhhh! Don't ever say RED. You're not helping the situation. :)

They are definatley PINK!!! :D

They are definatley PINK!!! :D



As pink as my wife's tulips...... :eek:
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http://www.king.igs.net/~bdmlhm/pink_tulips.jpg

hi keith

any word on when those pullovers from am worlds will be on their way to their respective purchasers? I'm really lookin forward to getting mine :) thanks!

john, you're wife's TuLips are as pink and soft as i had imagined! you are a lucky man to have such a beautiful sweet garden at home.

Now, what are we talking about again? ;)

Hey Keith, is it too late for me to sign up to run an Ace Race event this year? I'd like to, and expect 30-50 people would attend. Please PM me if its not too late.

After clicking around on the site I could not find much information such as price, s/h, or if there's a minimum order for stock golf discs. I'm wanting to get some more discs, but nobody around my area carries them :confused:

Keith, is it too early to be asking about D Avengers? I think they would be really sweet once they got worked in.

I just took first in the DMDGS series this summer and got one of the Full Color sets. What plastic are these in? It feels like a tacky X Plastic, but maybe stiffer? I'm comparing it to my BUZZZ-D, my Holiday Buzzz, my 2 Z-Buzzzs, and my Crystal Buzzz and it just feels tackier and stiffer.

Hi all,

Cromwell, the Am Worlds wind shirts will be shipping this week. They just finished the embroidery.

Brad, no plans for a Pro-D Avenger anytime soon. Maybe in the future.

Pat, the DMDGS SuperCOLOR discs were all Pro-D.

Hello everyone,

Just a quick note that the 2005 One Disc Ace Race disc has been approved for PDGA tournament play. It was submitted under the name SlipStream-GT and that means if you participated in an Ace Race this year your prototype is legal.

If you didn't get a chance to play an Ace Race we do have some leftover packages available at Sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com) .

The new Elite-Z SuperCOLOR Spectra has also been approved.

Didnt they make some CT challengers with the DMDGS full color?

Hey Keith,

Will the be another run of Cam Todd Challengers anytime soon???

The winners disc from the Ace Race felt like a CT Challenger, was that the same plastic.

If you hit an Ace in the Ace Race, you can just use that one. Plus I thought you had a lifetime supply of CT's. I have about 6 or 7 right now. So I should be set.

Keith,

I was really dissapointed when our local dealer here in Birmingham, called the factory to special order the stiff orange Z-Talons at 174g. He got me 3 of them sent from you(Discraft), but all of them were the softer-opaque material that is slightly less stable then the stiff ones. I am not sure if he spoke with you or Jim, Jim and him are long time friends.

Did the plastic formual change? I only notice this on the Talons.

Enough already!

I'm switching from Innova to Discraft! I'm turning into one of those I hate Innova players. First, I like my discs to be pristine, so I buy Z or Champ plastic. Second, I am cheap, and the local dealer charges $17 for Discraft and $15 for Innova (yes I know I can get it cheaper but I like to feel my plastic and I like to support this store) so I have always stuck with Innova.

Innova sticks to their name, they innovate and this has come back to bite me in the rear. When the Beast came out I liked it and made a serious committment. So what does Innova do... they innovate and shazam, the Beast is now the uber-Beast. It isn't even close to what it used to be. Now I have to learn, or even worse, find a new primary driver or pay a premium for my plastic on-line. Even if I find a new disc and stick with Innova, I have to wonder, how long will it be before that driver gets "Innova-ated?"

I'm not one to say innova plastic stinks. They make some great discs that do some really awesome things. But their philosophy is bad unless you like recreating your throw every couple of years.

Sooooo - now I'm learning the Flash and the Avenger in Z. I like them and I'm never going back.

Sooooo - now I'm learning the Flash and the Avenger in Z. I like them and I'm never going back.



I suggest you get a Z Pred a Z Avenger and 2 X Avengers. Beat in one of the Xs and you have all the way from Overstable to flippy with pretty much the same mold. If you want you can throw in a Z Tracker as well. The Flash is kinda touchy and you can get a X Avenger to do pretty much the same thing :D

Welcome back Lyle.

When you discover exactly what you want on the Discraft side, let me know, and i'll be sure to get you what you want for cheap. :p

BTW, was there a question to Keith M in your post? You thread drifter you! :) :D

Welcome back Lyle.

When you discover exactly what you want on the Discraft side, let me know, and i'll be sure to get you what you want for cheap. :p

BTW, was there a question to Keith M in your post? You thread drifter you! :) :D



Oh.....get some of these too:

1 Z-Xtreme
2 Z-Preds
1 Z-Avenger
2 Z-Crush
1 Z-Tracker
1 Z-Flash
1 Z-Xpress
1 X-XL
1 Z-Wasp
1 Z-Buzzz
1 Holiday Buzzz
1 Pro-D challenger
2 Swirlicious putters


They are good for lowering your scores, nabbing beautiful wives, and producing Baby-Hero's. :eek: :cool:

So what are the posted flight characteristics of the new Slipstream-GT? Also, is the grove supposed to be a thumbtrack or just to help with airflow around the disc?

Dustin

where can you order one of those [ace race 05]?

[thread drift on]

Things to think about...

I don't use X plastic. I really mean it when I say I'm picky. Dents really annoy me. The Avenger in Z with no wind flies a lazy swinging hyzer for me for about 340 feet. With a 10 to 15 mile an hour headwind it straightens out and flies 360. I do need a good high wind disk and maybe the Predator will work there.

The Flash is very good for me. I'm not as strong as you Pimp so it flies somewhere between a Beast and an Orc in stability. Very nice and up to 400 feet. I can turn it over in a high wind but that is why I have the Avenger.

Believe it or not I like the 150 Z Flick. Downwind it annies long and then fades hard at the end: and I can get it out to 400 feet with almost no effort. I think this disc is the weiner arm's friend. It's not good into the wind, but the overstable aspect more than compensates for the ultra light weight in neutral conditions. However, it is primarily a utility disc since the Flash works so well.

So, given that, what is a good high wind disk for me? I have used the FX mold firebird but it is a little too stable. I have to really work it to get it out to 320 before it fades hard in all but the biggest winds (that's a relative 320 i.e. not into a strong wind). I've heard good things about the Tsunami but worry about the long term prospects given that it's made for another company.

Also, what is the Discraft equivalent to the Sidewinder. I've used the Z express in the past as a roller and it always seemed understable to me. However, I haven't tried it as a driver in some time. My style has changed in the past year and discs that used to be stable are now overstable but fly a lot further (too much arm and not a strong enough finish in the past).


[Thread drift off]

Keith, will there be more runs of Z-Buzzes that you try to make flat like you did with the Midnight Buzzes? Maybe a regular production run?

So, given that, what is a good high wind disk for me? I have used the FX mold firebird but it is a little too stable. I have to really work it to get it out to 320 before it fades hard in all but the biggest winds (that's a relative 320 i.e. not into a strong wind). I've heard good things about the Tsunami but worry about the long term prospects given that it's made for another company.




I would still go with the Z Pred. Just try and get one in a lighter weight (168-170). Id say that will really work for you. The thing about overstable discs is that your always going to lose distance when you go to a super overstable wind discs like the Z Pred. I can throw my Z Avengers out to about 450 but my Z Pred on a typical golf shot will only make it out so around 400 or so and thats if I really put some power into it. I would say a normal power throw my Preds are hyzering out at about 380-390 and thats just something I have to accept. Thats just what I have come to understand and see.


Also, what is the Discraft equivalent to the Sidewinder. I've used the Z express in the past as a roller and it always seemed understable to me. However, I haven't tried it as a driver in some time. My style has changed in the past year and discs that used to be stable are now overstable but fly a lot further (too much arm and not a strong enough finish in the past).




I would suggest trying this new SlipStream GT or the new Spectra as a understable or roller disc since you dont like X Plastic. Other then that I would suggest the Z Xpress, Z XL or Z XS for understable and rollers. I myself would rather beat up a stable to overstable disc for those kind of shots but since you dont like X plastic you will prolly have to choose from one of the understable discs in the Z plastic.

I hope that helps.

And if you were thinking about the Tsunami but worried that Discraft wouldnt sponsor you in the future because of that disc. Thats not true. A lot of Discraft sponsored players throw the Tsunami. So you could give that a try as well.

I actually have a lightweight yellow Tsunami for sale if you would like to try that. I also have a couple 170 gram Z Preds for sale as well. If your interested just PM me and maybe we can work something out :D

Keith -

Will the spectra be coming out as a regular production run in the (near) future? Or is it only going to be a limited run in the SuperCOLOR line?

The SlipstreamGT is a great roller. I can throw it with hyzer and get it to roll, it is the most understable new driver I have thrown.

Is the Tsunami comparable to the Firebird?

I know everyone raves about the Pred, and I love the Pred too, but it just fades out too fast. I can only get my Pred 350ft, but I can pull the Firechicken 400. Would the Tsunami be a great replacement. And are they ever going to make more Z--Tsunami's?

I would say get a Tsunami. Its stability is inbetween a Pred and Z Avenger. I can hyzer mine out to about 400 and know for a fact that its still going to finish left even if I turn it a bit out of my hand. If your going for Z Tsunamis your going to have to look for the first runs from the 2004 DGLO because the runs coming out now are too domey and straight flying for what you would want it for.

Hello all,

Steve, we still have pleanty of CT Challengers here. No additional runs have been planned.

Parkn, the SuperCOLOR One Disc Ace Race Winner Challengers were pretty stiff. That is the only difference between the Pro-D Challenger and the CT. Even some of the Pro-D Challengers on the shelf are similar. The only reason that the CT Challenger even started was because you couldn't get Pro-D Challengers from us, only Elite-X to begin with. We then released the Pro-D Challenger the next year. Try different colors of Challengers and I'm sure you'll find one stiff enough for you.

Regarding the Elite-Z Talon, we have been running only the opaque ones for a couple of years now. That is how the first runs were and when we switched to clear everyone wanted the opaque.

dwridener, the SlipStream-GT is understable, haven't put a rating number on it yet but it would probably be around -1 to -1.5.

gokayak, you can order One Disc Ace Race packages HERE (http://www.sportdiscs.com/catalog/item/1297197/767477.htm) .

Lyle, alot of people that reviewed the One Disc Ace Race disc, the SlipStream-GT, said it reminded them of a Sidewinder.

Zmirc, it is very possible that more runs of flat top Buzzzes will be coming in the future.

DocE, the Spectra is not a limited run, but will only be available as a SuperCOLOR disc.

Is Nate Doss the first male to win an Am Worlds and a Pro Worlds?

The only reason that the CT Challenger even started was because you couldn't get Pro-D Challengers from us, only Elite-X to begin with. <font color="red"> Thanks, I just recieved some white ones that are fairly stiff. </font>

Regarding the Elite-Z Talon, we have been running only the opaque ones for a couple of years now. That is how the first runs were and when we switched to clear everyone wanted the opaque. <font color="red"> The orange ones I had were fairly opauqe but not as opaque as the new ones I got. Lake Olmstead in Augusta snagged my last stiff Z-Talon </font>

Zmirc, it is very possible that more runs of flat top Buzzzes will be coming in the future. <font color="red"> Woo Hoo! </font>




Are Z-Tsunami's still being produced regularly? I only have noticed the premium DGA plastic. Which is good, just not Z plastic. If so, where are they available?

Welcome back Lyle.

When you discover exactly what you want on the Discraft side, let me know, and i'll be sure to get you what you want for cheap. :p

BTW, was there a question to Keith M in your post? You thread drifter you! :) :D



Oh.....get some of these too:

1 Z-Xtreme
2 Z-Preds
1 Z-Avenger
2 Z-Crush
1 Z-Tracker
1 Z-Flash
1 Z-Xpress
1 X-XL
1 Z-Wasp
1 Z-Buzzz
1 Holiday Buzzz
1 Pro-D challenger
2 Swirlicious putters


They are good for lowering your scores, nabbing beautiful wives, and producing Baby-Hero's. :eek: :cool:



But do those discs work with a thorn in your finger? BUMMER

Regarding the Avenger/Predator discussion: I'm so happy with the DISCRAFT disc selection. The Z-Avenger is seriously one of the best additions to the line-up! Not only is it a Predator (with the very bottom cut off), it feels like one, and most importantly flies like a beat up one.

That's right folks... is your Predator too overstable? Then just get a Z-Avenger .

My quiver right now includes (in order of stability): X-XL, Z-Crush, 2-year old Z-Pred, Z-Avenger, 1-year old Z-Pred, new Z-Pred. :D

Hey Keith,


Ya heard? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

But do those discs work with a thorn in your finger? BUMMER



<font color="red"> I'm still not believing that happened! </font> :confused: :mad:



Ya heard?



<font color="red"> Keith may have, but we haven't........ </font>

But do those discs work with a thorn in your finger? BUMMER



<font color="red"> I'm still not believing that happened! </font> :confused: :mad:



Ya heard?



<font color="red"> Keith may have, but we haven't........ </font>



how bad is the thorn? I can understand if you cut a finger off, but a thorn?!? :D

It's about this big:

http://www.thegroline.com/flowers/redwood%20tree-big.jpg
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

****! :( you might be better off amputating!

Dude! Nice thorn. Did you find that at the Redwood Curtain (dg course in Humboldt)? Looks like Hole #2 :eek:

Hi Keith,
how is the Banger-GT compared to the SlipStream-GT, the specifiaktion looks almost the same?