excited about a new discraft driver since i love my crush it is fast as heck

I was wondering if someone (preferably those that know and have thrown these discs) could tell me what the difference is between the Cam Todd Challengers and the Pro D Challangers are?

Cam Todd Challengers are very stiff while the Pro D are softer, but not as soft as a soft magnet. It's all just a matter of preference.

Are the Cam Todd Challengers still made in the soft grippy type plastic of the Pro D's but just stiffer? As an analogy I will use the example of the KC Aviar being stiff but still made of a grippy type plastic more similar (not the same) to the P&A's than the plastic of the Dx Driver Aviars.

Keith, If you're still out there...I bought an X-Wasp at a tournament last weekend. It is the single best midrange I have ever thrown. I don't understand how it does exactly what I want every time even though I've not even had it a week. The mold in X plastic is very durable and has already stood up to several good whacks. I have tried just about every other midrange on the market and have been dissatisfied with either flight or durability. The X-Wasp scores perfectly on both. It is nothing like a Z-Wasp (way overstable, does not fly on a line for me) or even a Z-Buzz(more understable, less predictable, requires more effort, does not hold that perfect straight, flat line). The X-Wasp flies so effortlessly straight it is ridiculous! I am now scared that I can only get another one through alternative channels...Please, please, please make X-Wasps a standard production! As an avid disc golfer I almost feel cheated that the major companies hold out on us...if the market were more competetive (and it will be in the future) you guys (including the other company) wouldn't have this option, so why now? If I had an X-Wasp years ago when I started playing I would be SO much better today. Is there a conspiracy regarding the ultimate golf disc mold in the best plastics? :) Please promote the growth of the sport by producing these spectacular discs for new and experienced players alike. It is my opinion that throwing straight down the fairway should not be so elusive or elitist...Thanks :cool:

Rocco, the CTC's are made out of D plastic and I don't remember it being grippy like a UV Challenger which is what the D-Challenger resembles. To make matters worse, I could never figure out how people putt with Z Magnets and Z-Putt'rs. Those things are so slick. The CryZtal Challenger is a whole different thing. They are semi-soft and the plastic is really grippy. Are you confused yet?

No, I know exactly what you're talking about when you say the z magnets and putt'rs are slick and the z challengers grab the chains. I've seen them in action. As long as the Cam Todd challengers are stiff and grippy I am interested in getting some.

X-wasps, even though only made for tournament use, are not difficult to find. I'm sure people out there have some they'd like to sell. It's not like Discraft is limiting their total production...they are just limiting it to tournaments. There are still plenty on the market. I know in May I'll have a bunch, of which I could send you some! :)

Oh, the sweet CT Challenger! Not sure when they will actually get around to making more of these. And if they do...will they be as sweet as the first run?

Problem with distribution is that Cam is not touring as much and therefore it would be difficult for folks to obtain them. Sure would be nice if Discraft made and distributed them without limitation.

That would make the Challengers in: D, X, Z (from World Doubles '03), cryZtal Z, UV, and CT. Only thing missing would be Photon!!!!! :D

Imagine a stiff photon Challenger. That plastic would feel incredible. They could call it the AG Challenger!!!! :o

discgolfworld.com carries the x-wasp with the ice bowl stamp 2004, they are under "collectors discs".

Anyone who is looking for X-Wasps can contact me.....

I'd be happy to help you out and you would be helping out the Riverside Open. (http://www.riversideopen.com)

Thanks for the X-Wasp info, I appreciate the help. I am however still lobbying for standard production because I feel this is Discraft's # 1 midrange. I know that they are not hard to get for us who are in the know, but what about Joe Newbie who stumbles into a disc store for the first time and wants something that flies straight and is fairly durable. I would point him to the X-Wasp, because if you through it flat, it goes straight. Then I would have to try (and inevitably fail as I really have no idea) to explain why they weren't readily available. This would be complicated and ultimately would leave Joe with a weird impression of the sport. (This is what I got when I was a Newbie in 2001 and was trying to find a CE Roc). Quite possibly he would end up with a disc that would misteach the fundamentals of the sport to him (ie a distance driver that he had to throw hard anhyzer just to keep from diving left or a midrange that required real touch to fly straight over varying distances) I love disc golf and for the most part love the companies. I feel these threads are the best source of customer feedback, and this is mine :) Dave D. and Keith M. are great owners for opening themselves up directly to consumers...How many other company owners in any industry do this? Most hire smooth talkers who always have a right (and very unhelpful) answer. Thanks Keith.

i think Joe Newbie might a D-wasp to be an easier disc to throw anyway....those are in full production :eek:

If he wants something to throw straight he doesnt want any kind of wasp except a modified one that they call the BUZZZ.

My X and D wasp are STABLE BEASTS My x is just as stable as my Z and more stable then my D

My D-Wasp is STABLE, as in it flies STRAIGHT brand new!
True: my X-Wasp is OVERSTABLE and hookes left almost as much as my Z-Wasp!

I think my Z-Wasp is gonna have be demoted and ride the bench for a little while. I have been throwing that white X-wasp, aka the SuperWasp. I have had that for about 6 or 7 months and it is still overstable. I love that disc. Way better grip than the Z. A little less stable but not enough where it actually matters.

Kid, I recently benched my X-wasp b/c it was flying too straight (like the Buzzz). Then when I picked up a new one, it was overstable like my Z!!!! What's a man to do?

Too many good discs to choose from sometimes.

Too many good discs to choose from sometimes.



thus the reason my bag is so darn heavy! Darn you Discraft for making me want to carry to many discs!

For some reason the Z-Wasp will never fly straight for me, it is always fighting anhyzer or flying hyzer. It does not carry nearly as far as the X-Wasp with an easy, smooth throw. I have a Z-Buzz in my bag for use when I am throwing hard with a good chance of whacking a tree (X-Wasp is durable, but come on...), as well as tunnel or turnover shots. Today I was experimenting with the buzz/xwasp and I found that although the buzz fades later in its flight, it's low speed fade is still greater than the X-Wasp. By the way, I wouldn't even mention that new super roc in the same sentence as my aforementioned white, tournament stamped, 176g baby...By the way, if Joe Newbie played the tightly wooded courses around my home his D-wasp would not fly the same for too many rounds, thus confusing him...

The BUZZZ is the bomb i carry three. 178 for shots that i need to go straight for about 300 Ft then fade left. 168 for shots i need to go straight about 325ft then fade left and 174 for shots i need to go straight for 350ft and just hit the ground or for long range turnovers. BUZZZs is the BEST mid to come out since the ROC. BOTTOM line if you throw discraft you MUST have one in your bag. If not three like i do :D Im thinkin about gettin a 172 to big long hard right turns :D

The Buzz couldn't push the Comet out of my bag.

I agree with Greg. I haven't caught on to the Buzzz yet. I am still throwing beat Z-wasps more predictably. I think perhaps the Z-Buzz is maybe too fast for my midrange tastes?

been seeing some good shots with that green thang lately. xbuzz- went wierd to flippy in the same day. My next adventure is in the world of xwasp, black vs. white. and where could an xcrush fit into this whole mess.
-ps. eric ..rays stelli classic blue zwasps are the [*****]. they have slots to fill up with aces. Only takes 3-4 months to make it useable. (get me a glow ce roc and just might see if its worth it to try again) :cool:

you're right...his D-wasp would fly BETTER :eek:

i love my zbuzzz...i also have a photon glo wasp that i like alot, but it seems to be too similar to the buzzz for me to keep it in the bag. i love the feel of it though. i actually have 3 buzzz's...but i only keep 1 or maybe 2 in the bag...i use rocs as "water buzzzes" :)

I tried the buzz and also found it to be too fast for what I was looking for. The wasp is great, and its just what I want in a midrange, Super stable, medium speed, medium glide...just dead stable. My other favorite is the Beat up demon, which is slightly faster, but with slightly less glide so it ends up flying about the same.

The Buzz was a sweet disc though! It would be great to have after a long day, when you just cant put your all into every shot!

The Buzz couldn't push the Comet out of my bag.



What? Why would it? Both are an essential part of my mid-range arsenal, but i wouldn't throw 'em in the same situations.

YOU CAN HAVE MY BUZZZ WHEN YOU PRY IT FROM MY COLD, FAT DEAD FINGERS!!!!!!!!!

:mad:

I finally got some CryZtal Challengers. Holy Shizzle they are over-stable. I can put a serious amount of snap on these things. :cool: I love em. I got mine in Bowling Green from HB for $15. One went straight in the bag without a doubt. I love to drive it off the pad and use it for up shots. The grip is great and they are a lot of fun to throw. The CryZtal Challenger is the answer I was looking for. Thanks :)
-Scott

Hey could someone compare the flight charachteristics of the X, D, Z Challengers.

The X and the earlier Z's (Worlds, World Doubles) seem about the same kind of overstable. I haven't thrown the D but a couple of times, so I couldn't say for sure, but felt similar as well. I throw the soft UV myself, and it seems the same too.

Challengers: UV's are like the X's, which to me are a touch more stable than 3x JK Aviars. The CryZtals are nicely overstable for driving, long approaches, and windy putts (and they stick in chains :)).

Which is the grippiest. I like my putters on the firmer side, but I also like them to be as grippy as possible. I have the X and its just a little to bouncy to be a full time putter for me.

The UV is very grippy, but may be too soft for you. If that is the case, I would reccomend the UV D-Challenger. I have found it to be grippier than the regular D, but firmer than the soft UV Challenger. Make sense? Good luck!

I don't know that there is a UV and UV D-Challenger. I think they are the same disc! AKA UV Challenger

If you want grippy and firm....D or CT Challenger is best!!!

I don't know about UV "D," but there is a soft and hard version of this disc.

And the X is a great disc too, I just like a softer grip for putting and the X is too slick for me with that grip.

Soft UV Challenger - Don't leave home without it. :)

(BTW, "soft" is subjective. I used to putt with Omega SuperSofts and JK AX's (early runs) and these aren't as floppy as those two.)

The Buzz couldn't push the Comet out of my bag.



Shouldnt have to, Its not used to the same kind of shots. The could live in harmony in your bag :D

There is a UV-D Challenger. It has the same stamp as the regular D-Challengers, and is marked UV on the bottom. Slightly softer and feels like velvet. Try one out!

speaking of...you have and of the UV or Pro D challengers MarkA? Gonna have them at the mini on saturday?

Yes Doug, I did have some. Did you get one? :)

Hey Keith, just wanted to say thanks a billion for the new soft Challengers that are made in the UV "like" plastic but aren't UV. They are soft and super suhweeet! They are fundraisers for the WD this weekend and I picked up two today. They are awesome feeling. Now, I'm off to the backyard to practice with 'em.

Now, return my phone calls! :)

WOW KEITH!! The swirl APX!!!!!!! YEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!

Seriously, this disc is unlike any putter I've ever thrown! Its amazing! Everything about it!! It pushed the wizard out of my bag!!!! This is the most amazing putter in the world! Don't tell anyone how good it is.

Also, I bought my first Crush (white 1st run) and I'm really impressed!! It flies just like a DX Eagle but much faster and much more floaty! Its super long!

<font color="red"> By the way, how does the Z Talon fly compared to the X? </font>

I find it a little less stable and not as durable. The "Z" I mean. I realize that this is "backwards seeming" but that's the way it works for me. I throw the X now. BTW the Photons are the most stable. Closest thing to a Firebird that Discraft makes.

Tafe:
I think that the new, opaque Z-talons are significantly more stable than the earlier ones. By earlier, I mean the first runs and the white ones. I use the orangey-reddish-pink ones now as my main driver and they are much stable. Very F-Bird-esque. Give a brand new Z-Talon a try, you may be surprised.

Perhaps Keith can answer this one... Did the Z-talon change?

Nah. I'm an X-man all the way. (any geniuses want to show their intelligence and exploit that phrase?) Challengers, Buzzz's, Wasps, and Talons. I like the fact that when it rains, I still play the same. I just can't do that with Z.

Genius here. Sorry but as a former comic book collector, I really don't remember an X-Man named Challenger, Buzzz, Wasp, or Talon. There was a Buzz in the Marvel Universe BUZZ (http://www.spiderfan.org/cgi-bin/cover.pl?10293,buzz,1.jpg)
Let's not forget the Wasp who was an Avenger.

There was a Wildcat in early DC comics. Robin once became Talon in DC also.

Clueless on the Challenger but Cam Todds long lost relative Jason Todd was also Robin the boy Wonder for a while. I think he had an accident.

<<<<<< That poor fella needs attention.

Things like this are the reason I love this board!!!

I have a soft magnet with the normal soft magnet stamp and then a swirl,discraft stamp on top of that( Its like circles but has discraft in the middle). Just wondering if it was a normal production run or not!

Hey whats going on with the X-crush is that still in the works? or am I just day-dreaming? :confused:

There's one on eBay right now. Released at the Memorial, the next ones, I believe, are going to be at DGLO. They are domier, but more stable (than Z) and crazy fast. Unfortunately, it just doesn't fit in my hand right. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Flash will fit better.

Keith, have you considered running the Buzzz in D plastic?

Hello all,

St T Discgolfer, That is a double stamp or misprinted disc. It is not a normal stock Magnet.

jaymo, We had the Elite-X Crush up and it wouldn't run. We took it down after two days and there is no telling when we will be able to get it back up.

Kid_Roc, We did have the idea to try that but not until after we get the Elite-X Buzzz going. Those will be ready in the next few weeks.

Keith, are you guys going to fun the crush, buzzz, breeze etc... with the normal z/x stamp... I really like the minimalist look to it... thanks :D

sorry I meant the Z stamp.... not so much the X one... just the "discraft" on one side and "Z-buzzz" on the other... something like that

To prevent future confusion, Flash was in the DC Universe. He was not an X-Man, he was a member of the JLA.

YES!! I want a grip of those!!

I just won some Discraft Z-plastic at a tourney. I got a 170 Z-Wildcat and a 170 Z-Cyclone. They fly really awesome and very predictable and I think they might replace my Valk and Leopard, but putting that a side, I dont understand the stablitly ratings on your discs. And I would like to try something faster then the Cyclone but less stable then the Wildcat, however based on the ratings and your website I dont know what to try, the Wildcat and Cyclone are rated the same and they fly nothing a like. I am thinking an XL or XS but they have the same rating as both the Wildcat and Cyclone. There profiles look similar to each other as well. Where is the Speed rating and the turnover rating?? hahah.
Thanks,
Matt
P.S. Don't tell me to try the Crush, I don't do the wider rim discs........

Try an X wildcat, they are the bomb! Not quite as stable as the Z with a little more glide. I'm also a huge fan of the X predator. At a light weight (168) they are a little less stable than the wildcat. I tend to get a good S curve with them where at the wildcat is dead straight with a little left finish.

Plus, once you try that sweet grippy X plastic you'll be hooked!

Matt, try the Wildcat, XL and XS in X plastic. They are all understable and you will definetly like at least one of them.

You might also try the Z Xpress! Its less stable than the WC and fast. The XL is about as fast as the Cyc and glides more with about the same fade.

Try the regular cyclone or the X cyclone!

Beware the X Wildcat though! Mine is more overstable than my Z cat but it has more glide. They are both great discs and the X beats up eventually!

Try the Photon UV Wildcat. If it's not understable enough for you out of the box, throw a few spike hyzers, it will be. :D

Oh yeah, there are some X Wildcats that fly like Firebirds! There are also "lady" and regular Predators. Since I don't throw either, I'm not sure how to tell the difference, but they're out there.

"Lady?''
That is pretty funny. I do use a JK Aviar...I like the feel of it.

I just wish Discraft had a similar rating to Innova with their discs instead of just one stablity rating. Discs fly differently for everyone, depending on the speed vs spin. So it is really hard to tell what a disc is supposed to do based on one number. Although they do say if it is good in Wind or for Rollers, which I would assume would be the turn factor in the beginning and if it is beginner friendly I would assume it glides well.
I think I am going to stick with the Z-Cyclone and Z-Wildcat and see how they work out, I will problaby just pick up a lighter Wildcat for more distance and less stablity. I am also going to try a Buzz...Go Discraft...
Cheers,
Matt

An X-Pred is something to behold! I frequently allow fellow players to give it a what-if/test throw in warm-ups...and raised eyebrows are the reponse to the combination of speed and glide. For such a tall disc, it is 'very' fast, very inspiring! X-plastic has a really good texture/feel to it, IMHO.
A touring advanced player said that the Z-Preds had more glide...is this true? I would think they'd be more overstable with less glide... Anyone? Keith??

Any updates on the 2nd run z extremes?

An X-Pred is something to behold! I frequently allow fellow players to give it a what-if/test throw in warm-ups...and raised eyebrows are the reponse to the combination of speed and glide. For such a tall disc, it is 'very' fast, very inspiring! X-plastic has a really good texture/feel to it, IMHO.
A touring advanced player said that the Z-Preds had more glide...is this true? I would think they'd be more overstable with less glide... Anyone? Keith??



The X-Pred is definetly an underrated disc.

Stop talking up the XPred! Before you know it there will be a shortage.

Besides the most underrated Discraft disc (perhaps ANY disc) is the Comet

comet rocks i used to putt with one when i was a newbie. hell i still play like one but don't putt with it anymore

I carry both an x-predator and x-comet. The comet is pretty sweet for a nice short approach/midrange shot. The X-Predator is a beast of it's own. You don't come across too many discs that have speed and glide. The Z-Predator is an overstable pig and then some. I think they have less glide than its X counter part. Also...if you think a Speed Demon skips high off the ground??? Try a Z-predator. I have seen one of the top local player's throw an insane hyzer skip with it amongst other skip/trick shots that would amaze almost anybody.

Stop talking up the XPred! Before you know it there will be a shortage.

Besides the most underrated Discraft disc (perhaps ANY disc) is the Comet



You are correct. Comets are sweet.

Comets are one of te most fun discs to throw. They rock the casbah.

The Signature Series Comet with Ron Russel sig was the first disc I could throw well, and used it on every hole...I might have to pull one out and see what it can do now...hahaha...if I remember correctly nothing glides like a Comet...thanks for taking me back to when D-Golf was carrying more beer then discs and the person who drank the most won the round...
Cheers,
Matt

I am gogin to get my comet out for kicks as well

Didn't back up far enough on this thread to see if it had been mentioned but if you like the old RR Comets and the X-Comet ya gotta try a Z-Comet. Initially it has a touch of Z-type stability but will do most any little short hole or midrange shot you can dream up. To me the flight is kindasorta like an X-Buzzzzzzz but with less speed and more glide. Well worth the twenty buck plus price of admission. I like my Buzzzzz but I pull the Z-Comet out more.

I don't like the 'slickness' of the Z plastic. Even the X Comet seems slick sometimes. The old elite Comets are perfect.

riverdog which Z-Comet are you refering too. There are two very different ones, green from 03 DGLO and the blue ones from Ron Russell/Am Nationals/?. I carry a blue Z and an old school nicely beat up first run.

Matt

email me and we can settle on our trade,
[email protected]

Jason.

I forgot about my Comet till these posts. Thanks for reminding me of the good ol' days.

Didn't know about the DGLO version Matt. I'm using the Blue RR which, to my arm, is almost identical to a brand spanking RR Signature version of old, and it by god stays that way. The old school soft versions I loved when I first started playing but as I have developed more speed/spin/etc I just couldn't keep up with the changes they go through every time they hit a tree. And since the increased velocity of my throws hasn't resulted in a total elimination of tree strike, I gotta go with the Z. Wrong thread but I now use a heavy Champ Stingray for a lot of the situations I once used beat Comets for, and the Champ Stingray stays that way. Probably redundant to carry both discs but so be it. As my engineer buds say, redundancy is good, redundancy is good. :cool:

Hey Keith
Will there be a Ace Race this year. The site looks like maybe there will be one but there are no dates

Thanks

Hey Keith
Will there be a Ace Race this year. The site looks like maybe there will be one but there are no dates

Thanks



Its my understanding there will be, but will it be the Breeze, or a new disc?

A friend of mine picked up a stable yellow mid range disc at the mdgo, it was just labeled as "proto Midrange" any idea what this is?

How come Discraft (or other Mfg's) don't use the same type of ratings system as Innova. EX: Teebird 7, 5, 0, +1?

I think it would be beneficial for Disc Golfers to be able to use one rating system. Don't get me wrong I'm not against Discraft's system but it would be nice to see the Power, Glide, Hi-speed turn as well as the fade that is on the disc already.

When I buy a disc I go by the feel of the disc and the characteristics. I've heard the Flash is supposed to have a rating of: 10, 5, 0, +1. If this is correct I would buy one in an instant since I am a Teebird fan! That much power and glide would be beautiful! In fact I have 3 Flash's on the way!

Maybe something can be worked out between all Disc Mfg's to use one system?

My 2 cents,

PT Woods
# 20431

when it comes down to it you just have to get out and throw the disc. Each disc will react differently to each person's throw. I bought a beast when they came out because it was supposed to be like a +2 on turn but it flipped like crazy even brand spankin new. Likewise, I got the X Pred because it was supposed to me a +2 stability, yet for me it's more like a 0.5 (it is my favorite disc by the way!)

Anyway, my whole point is don't buy the disc because it's rated one way, borrow one and toss it and see how it works for you.

What happened to the FLASH thread?

Speaking of flash thread, did anyone notice that there isnt any raised lettering on the inside of the rim of the new Flash?
has this been covered?

Erick

Some acetone will make the flash bald

I believe FIRST RUNS (for the most part) do not have the raised lettering on the inside rim. If you want the raised lettering, wait until the 2nd run comes out!

If you want to get technical, it's the first run of the MOLD that doesn't have lettering. i.e. first run Z Talon/ Wasp's have lettering, but the first run X Talon/D Wasp's do not since the X Talon/D Wasp's were the first time the mold was run.

nicely done

The Z-Pred ain't bad either. I throw nothing but Innova discs but a couple of months ago I decided to try the Z-Pred for head winds and hard left turns because I don't like the Innova Firechicken much. It works great. I love this disc. Can't recommend it highly enough.

Have you tried a Monster? They ROCK!!!

I threw a Talon and then tried a Monster and never went back.

PT Woods
# 20431

not entirely true because the first run z buzz discs have the wasp and discraft lettering on inside of rim and these were run in z plastic first then in xplastic for holidays. gosh i love the buzz but hate the lettereing on the rim bad discraft bad "slap on the hand" lol

If you want to get technical, it's the first run of the MOLD that doesn't have lettering. i.e. first run Z Talon/ Wasp's have lettering, but the first run X Talon/D Wasp's do not since the X Talon/D Wasp's were the first time the mold was run.



not entirely true because the first run z buzz discs have the wasp and discraft lettering on inside of rim and these were run in z plastic first then in xplastic for holidays. gosh i love the buzz but hate the lettereing on the rim bad discraft bad "slap on the hand" lol

I threw a Talon and then tried a Monster and never went back



That's because the Talon is more like a stable Eagle. It wasn't meant to be as stable as the monster.

I threw a Talon and then tried a Monster and never went back



That's because the Talon is more like a stable Eagle. It wasn't meant to be as stable as the monster.



John is correct. Talons should not be compared to Monsters. Apples to Oranges, my friend.

Compare a Talon to an Eagle. Compare a Predator to a Monster.

really probably more like compare a Z Reaper to a monster...my Z pred isn't as overstable and my X Preds are definately not anywhere near.

I don't know anything about Reapers but if you think the Monster is more overstable than the Z-Predator, then compare it to a Z-Xtreme!

I've thrown a Monster once or twice but not enough to get a good feel for it. Is it as stable as a Z-Pred? I think the Z-pred is a little more stable but I'm not sure. It was a good excuse to try a Discraft disc and I wasn't disappointed.

Don't be scared to throw quality plastic. Anybody and everybody can throw that other stuff :D

Hey My Hero,
I'm trying to get the low down on the Flash but the Flash board got off on a tangent and I only got like three reviews. Have you thrown one yet? I haven't thrown a Crush or an Orc so if you're thrown one you might be at a loss to compare it to something I have thrown (I throw a Beast and Valkyries as my stable-understable discs).

Had a nasty interaction in my bag with the Monster, Beast and my trusty Z-Bra. It was ugggly! :D

Kurt,

I would consider the Flash to be a little bit more stable than the Beast, and the Valk. At high speeds, it is understable, turns to the right (RHBH), and glides FOREVER! Once it slows down, it starts its turn back to the left, and continues to glide. It has a little dome to it, so it floats on a cusion of air and can "fly" to a stop rather than "falling" to a stop. It is extremely fast, and is always in a hurry to get the job done.

Mind you, that is how it flies for me. Everybody's throw is unique. Pick one up, give it a legitimate chance, and you'll probably like what you see.

Hey Keith,

Just wondering if there will ever be a run of Swirl Challengers? I love the swirl plastic and I love the Swirl APX, but I think a Swirl Challenger would be even better and it would be a huge seller for you. I have tried the UV Challenger and it ROX MY SOX but nothing beats the feel of swirly plastic!


Oh and by the way, the Innova scale doesn't work. Doesn't it seem wierd that the firebird and roc have the same low speed fade(+2)? How bout that the XD and Wolf are the EXACT same discs! Heck! If you want proof of how it doesn't work, take a look at any one disc! The Champion Teebird has the exact same stability as the DX teebird.....yeah right!

Those Innova guys are :confused:. But really, we don't need a scale. I dont ever look at it. I also know that the wildcat is more stable than the wasp (both +1.5).

Stability is relative to how you throw as an individual. Everybody's spin to force ratio is different. We all live in different parts of the world, and climate has a lot to do with how discs fly. Some of us live at sea level, some of us live at 400' MSL (mean sea level), and some of us live a mile high :DWe are not machines. We do not repeat our actions perfectly everytime.

I think all understable plastic should be marked "beginner" because that is the disc that a beginner, living anywhere in the world, will be able to throw with ease first. The money involved from a manufacturer's view is in the hands of beginners and intermediate players. After all, they are the one's that purchase most of the discs.

A "seasoned" player knows exactly how the disc will benefit him/her after a few test throws. Don't you think?

The only problem is that some of us don't want to go out and buy every disc, kknowing that they won't all work for our throw. Whoever brought it up (I believe DiscGraham), Discraft still has discs that are the exact same since they only give one rating. There are problems with both systems as there are inherently problems with anything. The best thing to do is just go to some place like http://discgolfreview.com and read what each disc does.

A "seasoned" player knows exactly how the disc will benefit him/her after a few test throws. Don't you think?



Exactly! I keep encouraging our local TD types and disc sellers to have a trial box so we can throw things before we buy them or pick them for payout.

Kurt,

I would consider the Flash to be a little bit more stable than the Beast, and the Valk. At high speeds, it is understable, turns to the right (RHBH), and glides FOREVER! Once it slows down, it starts its turn back to the left, and continues to glide. It has a little dome to it, so it floats on a cusion of air and can "fly" to a stop rather than "falling" to a stop. It is extremely fast, and is always in a hurry to get the job done.

Mind you, that is how it flies for me. Everybody's throw is unique. Pick one up, give it a legitimate chance, and you'll probably like what you see.



So it does resemble a Teebird with the power of a Beast....Can't wait till mine shows up. It sounds like an Orc with more glide.

PT Woods
# 20431

RIGHT!!! LIKE I SAID, the first run of the MOLD has no lettering. Molds are not one part only. They built the Buzzz off the Wasp by changing the nose, so the inner part including the inside of the rim is the same as a Wasp, therefore it says, "Wasp" instead of "Buzzz" Follow? :p

My Hero,
Yeah, discs fly different for people. I may not have the gun to get the best performance out of a Flash. My average drive is about 350-360' with an occasional 380-390'. A good example is that I can throw a Valk just as far as a Beast. I have by the way thrown an Orc (I just remembered), albeit only twice, and found that I couldn't throw it any further than my Beast so I didn't bother to get one. Technique is really what gets the distance but I wouldn't mind trading my Beast out for something that, given my fairly short drive distance, might add 10-20' until I perfect my technique. Sounds like this might be the disc although it does sound like what people are describing the Orc to be.

Stability ratings confused me at first. I started throwing Innova simply because their rating system had more information and made more sense (not that it's accurate all of the time). The Discraft ratings don't break down the high speed and low speed characteristics of the flight. Some may say there is no need. Anyway, I have no problem trying new Discraft discs but comparing the two stability systems is not easy. A Discraft disc with a +2 rating may fly like an Innova disc rated at 0, +2 or -1, +3?? I know what I throw well with Innova product and the only way I've been able to determine what Discraft discs fly roughly the way I want (without throwing them) is through the PDGA DISCussion boards. Problem is that the opinions are sometimes biased (both ways). The best way is to find someone with a disc you think you might like and throw it a dozen times. At my home course most people throw Innova though.

Should stability ratings be stadardized by the PDGA? This would help beginners primarily. Maybe a combination of Discraft and Innova, etc.

Stability ratings confused me at first. I started throwing Innova simply because their rating system had more information and made more sense (not that it's accurate all of the time). The Discraft ratings don't break down the high speed and low speed characteristics of the flight. Some may say there is no need. Anyway, I have no problem trying new Discraft discs but comparing the two stability systems is not easy. A Discraft disc with a +2 rating may fly like an Innova disc rated at 0, +2 or -1, +3?? I know what I throw well with Innova product and the only way I've been able to determine what Discraft discs fly roughly the way I want (without throwing them) is through the PDGA DISCussion boards. Problem is that the opinions are sometimes biased (both ways). The best way is to find someone with a disc you think you might like and throw it a dozen times. At my home course most people throw Innova though.

Should stability ratings be stadardized by the PDGA? This would help beginners primarily. Maybe a combination of Discraft and Innova, etc.



" The best way is to find someone with a disc you think you might like and throw it a dozen times."
Sounds like pretty straight forward advice to me. Hope that individual your borrowing the disc from doesn't mind if you put a nick or ding in the rim :o

I've thrown a Monster once or twice but not enough to get a good feel for it. Is it as stable as a Z-Pred? I think the Z-pred is a little more stable but I'm not sure. It was a good excuse to try a Discraft disc and I wasn't disappointed.



The monster is definetely a notch more stable than the Z-Predator. For me, the monster is more of a wind disc or pure overstable driver, where the Predator is more of an all-around distance driver that just happens to be pretty overstable. Here is a more specific example. Flat surface with no wind: I throw the Z-Predator 350' flying straight for 75% of the flight then gliding hard left as speed diminishes. I throw the Monster 320' flying straight for 65% of the flight before gradually turning left, and finally falling hard left when the speed runs out.

Hello All,

Discgraham, No plans for a Swirl Challenger, the Swirl machine gives us enough headaches with the APX.

Regarding the stability ratings, it is not an exact science. Our ratings are based on a MEDIUM speed, right hand, back hand throw. They are just a nudge in the right direction of what the disc will do.

I dont know what Z Preds you are throwing but ALL mine are really really OVERSTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a run of Preds that flew kind of like a T Bird maybe that is the run you are throwing right now. My Z Preds are for big Hyzers and heavy headwinds.

I thought maybe the Zpredator I just got was a little weird. It is translucent orange 172g. It is probably the longest discraft disc I have ever thrown. It has to be a recent run as the store I bought it from got it a few weeks ago. I've been throwing it alongside my Orcs and it goes just about as far! This has really amazed me. The disc flies straight into a moderate headwind (like an Orc with no wind) when thrown flat, and turns a little before coming back (if thrown high enough) into a strong headwind. It is a REALLY long disc, flying pretty much like an X-Predator. Maybe Keith knows something about this... :cool:

Who knows :confused:

The Pred is probably the most underrated disc out there. It is awesome in all plastics. The X is soooooooooo awesome right out of the box! The Z is stable, stable, stable, and fears no headwind!

As long as the general population doesn't know, that means more for me! LOL. Great Disc!

Hey Discspeed,

I have heard that the last run of heavy orange Elite-Z Predators are straighter flying then normal. The only difference that I could find was a little bit higher dome.

Yeah, I have the same disc. Orange and about 172 g. I can't throw mine quite as far as a Beast or Valk so I'm surprised that you throw you're Monster shorter than the Z-Pred. For me it's Beast/Valk: about 360-370', Z-Pred about 340-350'. Maybe a Monster isn't as long as a Beast because of the low speed fade.

higher dome = receding hairline

If the discraft predator was on the ballot this fall for president I would vote for it!

I purchased a 170g x-predator a couple of weeks ago and it was understable out of the box. The plastic doesn't feel like the normal elite-x. It's super soft and extremely grippy. It's a great tail wind disc. Has anybody else noticed this?

I bought a 169 Red X Pred a couple weeks ago and its overstable, but flies much liek a DX firebird right now, except with glide. I've only thrown it half a dozen times.

I have also thrown the Z Predator. It was a translucent dayglo 172. It was alot like a monster, but in superior Z plastic. It also went straighter for longer.

I purchased a 170g x-predator a couple of weeks ago and it was understable out of the box. The plastic doesn't feel like the normal elite-x. It's super soft and extremely grippy. It's a great tail wind disc. Has anybody else noticed this?



I usually try to get the blue 168 X preds (when I can find them) and they are a little understable for me. I get nice long S curves out of them right out of the box and they become long anhyzer discs as they get beat up.

I've been throwing Predators since they showed up in OKC, I love them in both X& Z plastic, for me the X seem to get understable after a few rounds, but in their defense the wind in oklahoma will make just about any disc understsble. The Z on the other hand fly like a dream with or against wind, definately my go to disc.

When I first started playing, I used a X-Predator that I named Pistol Pete (I named them all :o) for LONG RHFH shots. I've since moved on to Speed Demons, but the Predator was very good for these shots.

Hello Everyone,

With all of this Predator talk I thought it would be perfect to mention a new model based on the Predator. This disc is not quite as overstable as the Predator and has more glide. It has already made it out to the West Coast for the Masters Cup this weekend. They are coming out first as the Tsunami in the DGA Hybrid blend plastic. For referance if the Elite-Z Predator is a 2.5, then this would be a 2. Look for these to be released in one of our regular lines in the next 6-8 weeks.

Keith,

You made the best disc of all time when will you make them again.

(Z-storms)





BRING BACK THE SKYSTREAK!!!

I've been tryng to throw my new Flash, but for me it's just way too understable, although I've thrown it a few times downwind and if I get it high enough so it has time to flex back I get some amazing distance. It is so fast and it just glides forever, but it just can't handle power. Will this new disc be similar, but stable enough to handle a rip? :) :oIf the Flash was as stable as my Orc I think I could throw it a mile, still all in all a great disc....just not for me :( although this new one sound like just what I'm looking for. Any idea what the new one will be called? (If you can say, that is. ) :D

I've been tryng to throw my new Flash, but for me it's just way too understable, although I've thrown it a few times downwind and if I get it high enough so it has time to flex back I get some amazing distance. It is so fast and it just glides forever, but it just can't handle power. Will this new disc be similar, but stable enough to handle a rip? :) :oIf the Flash was as stable as my Orc I think I could throw it a mile, still all in all a great disc....just not for me :( although this new one sound like just what I'm looking for. Any idea what the new one will be called? (If you can say, that is. ) :D



Lol you need to ease up!!

Hey Discspeed,

I have heard that the last run of heavy orange Elite-Z Predators are straighter flying then normal. The only difference that I could find was a little bit higher dome.



Thanks for the reply Keith. The disc I was describing is indeed a heavy orange one, and it is awesome! By the way, great job with the Flash! The new Z-plastic is exactly what I have been dreaming of. Thanks for pushing the disc golf envelope and making Innova uncomfortable... :cool:

These heavy orange Predators are something you guys should be looking into. They are like straighter, faster champion teebirds. Like a cross between a Champion Teebird and an Orc. Far less stable than a Monster or Firebird. Its amazing that something so small in terms of the mold can make such a difference in flight. If Discraft could purposely make more (I guess they are for DGA) you could really cut into the Teebird market.

My heavy orange z-predators (I have 2, i guess they are not new) are monsters of overstability that easily at the very least match the firebirds in the overstability department.

Keith,

I cannot find a picture of you posted anywhere do you have a link to one? :D

;)

There is a pic of him in an old DGWN. I think the Summit in Scottsdale from 2003.

I just scored a couple of the new Tsunami's at the Masters Cup Yesterday, and they are schweeet. The plastic is a real nice blend of the grippy elite and durable Z. I thwacked a tree with it yesterday and barely left a scuff. I am a little confused on the brand though, is this going to be released as a DGA disc or a Discraft disc? Or does Discraft make all of DGA's discs? If this is the future of DGA, then the future looks bright indeed! :cool:

Discraft makes the Pro Discs in the Fusion plastic for DGA as far as I know. The Tsunami will come out as a Discraft discs also, look back on this thread to Keith�s Post eight days ago.
I agree, the plastic feels really good :D

I will definately give this disc a try, cause I LOVE my predator. It's hard to imagine more glide out of a disc that is as overstable as this, but I am looking forward to it! I will also be trying the Flash soon!!

What will this disc be called when it is released under the discraft name?

As I understand from Keith's last post, this disc is not going to be as overstable as a standard Predator. If it is anything like the weird Z Predator I asked Keith about previously it is the closest thing Discraft makes to a Teebird (11x or Champion) but it is faster out of the hand and longer. I look forward to trying one.

There's one on ebay right now...

Hi Everyone,

Can't release any name info on the Tsunami in one of our lines right now. It may be awhile with the Flash taking up most of our time. There are some other items on the way as well so the DGA will have the Tsunami to itself for the time being. I'll keep you posted here with details as they develop.

I think if more of the Predator throwers out there got their hands on one of these they would be pretty disappointed in knowing they were going to have to wait for the Discraft version, especially if it comes in Z plastic!!! This is one sweet disc, I got mine at the same time I got my Flash and both have found permanent places in my bag. :D

How much more glide do you get from the Tsunami then the Predator cuz i can throw my 169 pred almost 400. If i could get a disc to have almost the same flight pattern but with about 50 or so more feet of flat glide that would be the most amazing disc in the world. I would throw 2 or three in my bag to replace my talons :D:D:D

Plus if it comes in Z plastic im already sold :D

Hey Steve,

They should have longer glide then a Predator. I'll throw some in the car so next time you see me you can try them out.

Car=Cruiser. I'm jealous, you never bring me discs.

Thanks alot Keith i hope to see you soon. :D


Car=Cruiser. I'm jealous, you never bring me discs.



Did you just say your jealous of a 913 rated AM??? Im flattered :o

Not jealous of 913, jealous of free delivery of stuff that I don't have.

I know i was just workin you a little bit. I cant wait to throw these though. I Love the rim on the Preds and if this is almost the same but with more glide i might have a new Favorite disc :D

No, he's just jealous of my PT!

My sister Drives a PT. Seems like it would be a great disc golf car. LOTS OF TRUNK SPACE FOR ALL MY PLASTIC :D

My sister Drives a PT. Seems like it would be a great disc golf car. LOTS OF TRUNK SPACE FOR ALL MY PLASTIC :D



My sister just got one of those Scion's. I think it's the XB.
The baby suv. She say's it gets 40 mpg highway , with airconditioning , multi-disc CD player ,video ,lots of cargo space and fully tinted windows. :D
She calls it her " Little Scriddler". :D

hey kieth kinda stupid question maybe but does discraft allow tours of the plant or anything like that. I am about hour and half away I believe. (Adrian Michigan) I got a small club who would be interested in coming up and checking out how they are made and just talking with some fellow disc nerds lol.


To everyone in michigan area
Also I am gettin married in aug. and my buddies and I are going on an all day or 2 day disc golf adventure as day activities for my bachelor party and was wondering if you guys think We should head to kalmazoo area or detroit area to hit multiple courses and for some good night time entertainment as well if you know what I mean.

My sister just got one of those Scion's. I think it's the XB.
The baby suv. She say's it gets 40 mpg highway , with airconditioning , multi-disc CD player ,video ,lots of cargo space and fully tinted windows. :D
She calls it her " Little Scriddler". :D



Well tell your sister to feel guilty every time she drives it. Think of all the McDonalds toys that had to be melted down to make the Chassis and Body Panels for these cars! The poor kids!!

:cool:

To everyone in michigan area
Also I am gettin married in aug. and my buddies and I are going on an all day or 2 day disc golf adventure as day activities for my bachelor party and was wondering if you guys think We should head to kalmazoo area or detroit area to hit multiple courses and for some good night time entertainment as well if you know what I mean.



Detroit area FOR SURE. Hit Hudson Mills ( 2 of the best courses in MI) you can also hit Cass Benton which is my home course. Then you could shoot up 96 to Kensington which is also a GREAT course then you could hit up downtown detroit or downtown Pontiac for some Entertainment (pontiac is more of a club scene though). Or you could head over to WINDSOR for the night. There ALWAYS some entertainment over there. Theres also Greektown Casino and Motor City Casino and MGM Grand Casino. There is definatly a better selection of courses and entertainment down here in the detroit area.

Let me know if you decide on the detroit area id be willing to shoot some rounds and drink some beers with you guys :D

My sister just got one of those Scion's. I think it's the XB.
The baby suv. She say's it gets 40 mpg highway , with airconditioning , multi-disc CD player ,video ,lots of cargo space and fully tinted windows. :D
She calls it her " Little Scriddler". :D



Well tell your sister to feel guilty every time she drives it. Think of all the McDonalds toys that had to be melted down to make the Chassis and Body Panels for these cars! The poor kids!!

:cool:


I think it's under the Toyota product or brand. Maybe a different division though. It looks kinda funny she says , but has allot of interior room.

It is a Toyota manufactured automobile, kinda like what Saturn is to GM.

yeah hudson mills does rock only about 45 minutes away from my house and I don't play it as much as I should. I will prob head to detroit area and it would be cool to throw with ya and drink plenty of beers. thanks for the info

Hi Lee,

Because of insurance purposes we don't allow tours of the plant. I would also second CB's recomendation to come to the D. They have some great "entertainment" near Greektown now!

Just let me know man and ill be more then willing to show you around and drink alot of beers with you. :D

I think if more of the Predator throwers out there got their hands on one of these they would be pretty disappointed in knowing they were going to have to wait for the Discraft version, especially if it comes in Z plastic!!! This is one sweet disc, I got mine at the same time I got my Flash and both have found permanent places in my bag. :D



Just got my Tsunami today, what a great disc, it flys like by beat Pro Line/Champ Firebird, but longer with more glide.
I don't know why you would want to wait for Discraft Z plastic when this DGA Fusion plastic combines the best of both worlds, X & Z, durablity and grip.
Great Disc the best plastic I have felt in a while.
Cheers,
Matt

keith we will be starting our day at hudson mills prob both monster and origianl courses and from there the courses are undecided. Would be really cool if you could join us for a round or more if you like. July 24th is the day and unsure about time but can tell you when it get's closer if you are interested.

Hi Lee,

Be sure and hit me up with the details as you get more information together. Sounds like fun.

Glad you are liking the Tsunami DGT. Everyone that has gotten their hands on one loves it.

Get ready for the Elite-X Buzzz...

Kieth

Again I beg:

Photon Glow Challenger :cool:

KEITH!!!! The J-Town one disc challenge is tomorrow!! My Holiday Buzzz is too slick. Help a brutha out!!! :D:p

i will you can count on it. I started a thread about it titled michigan area disc golfers and a couple people are already interested in joining the party should be fun.
bachelor party disc golf fun (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=194282&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post194427)

I meant, I've already got an X (or seven). Where's the D?

Hey Keith. Just wanted to say I got a couple of DGA Tsunamis and I'm really pleased. They fly very much like my Orc's but they seem to be more consistant. The Orc will flip on me sometimes if I don't give it enough hyzer and once it flips it doesn't seem to want to come back. The Tsunami seems to just flex a little and then come back every time. I can seem to get a little more distance with the Orc, but I'm still getting to know the Tsunami and the consistancy is worth the trade off. Congratulations on another great disc. I look foreward to trying one in Z plastic soon... :)

Hey everyone,

Glad you like the Tsunami, Cornflake. We are very pleased at the response it has gotten. Still no telling when we wil introduce it in our normal plastics.

Tafe, there is a good chance the Pro-D Buzzz will be making it's debut at the 2004 Discraft Great Lakes Open. The Elite-X First Run Buzzz are available now with a commemorative DGLO stamp on them. You can get them by clicking here (http://www.sportdiscs.com) !

Hey Keith,
I still NEED to get my hands on some Tsunami's
I want to get it into my bag before DGLO in two weeks.
How can i get my hands on some of these babies :D

lol

Doesn't Sun King Discs have them in? I think thats where i got mine... havent thrown them yet though.

I just found them here. (http://www.discndatonline.com/item.cfm?itemid=32012)

Erick

Sun King has them. (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=1000-DGAFTShttp://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=1000-DGAFTS)

i CANT wait for shipping. I NEED them NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I want to practice with them before DGLO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you need them? Don't you already have a lot of good discs in your bag? Is it really that smart to add a disc this close to a big tournament? :p

Hello All,

I would say that if it is a good disc it dosen't matter. Most of the Team Discraft guys were throwing the Flash at Bowling Green and we had just released it that week.

I NEED them because i want to see if i can add them in place of something i already have. I traded Pete Wyndgard my stable orange flash yesterday for a 170-172 Tsunami. Man are they STABLE. I think im going to have to work with this disc for a while before it goes in the bag.

Ahem, Atreau3, you got yours in a trade with me...and it was way less than what SunKing is selling 'em for.

Adam,

After i got that disc from you, i let my buddy throw the disc, and he wouldnt give it back! ( I owed him $ on a lost bet) so I ordered 2 more.

Erick

Funny you should mention that, I let a buddy of mine in Houston borrow the only one I had left, and he wouldn't give it back either.

THE TSUNAMI IS SSSWWWEEEEEETTT


After all the estaticness coming from him MILLZ hates it haha

After all the estaticness coming from him MILLZ hates it haha



I dont hate it. It just doesnt fill the spot in my bag that i was hoping it would. :mad:

I recall you calling it a piece of S**T more time than you call me a piece on thurs

hey kieth I was at a tourney this weekend and I noticed the z buzzz discs that were for sale had the same stamp but no first run markings. They were ALOt domier than the first run buzz's I have used very much. Is this a change in mold or or change taking place during cooling or what. They were mostly yellow. didn't throw any but assumed more dome might make them less stable in which i wasn't interested. I love the buzz beacuse it isn't too stable like the wasp but stable enough to give a very good hard throw with lot's of snap. I hope the discs isn't changing as I like the first runs as they are. I got a clear one with custom stamp that is very flat and SUPER SUPER STRAIGHT even when thrown HARD. That is my ideal buzz right there. Probably just a domey run I hope. Keep up the new discs as I love everything you guys ahve came out with in the last year. Great stuff

WTF is "estaticness"?

If you don't know, no one can tell you!

I know what "eCstacy" and an "eCstatic" feeling is, but I'm a little lost on "estaticness".

Time to brow beat again:

Kieth how about a nice Photon Glow plastic Challenger.

Please. :)

I got a Photon UV Pro D challenger :eek: :D:D:D

I want MAX weight BLACK Pro D's Though. Like the ones we just got @ The Brent Hambrick :DPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

How about bringing back the Skystreaks ?

Any update on when the Discraft version of the Tsunami will appear? I love the Tsunami!

Anxiously awaiting!!

PT Woods
# 20431

Discraft produces the Tsunami so just keep throwing that. I have a few Z Plastic Tsunamis that i got at DGLO this year. They are WAY WAY WAY more overstable then the blended plastic of the regular Tsunamis. I just picked up a couple orange Tsunamis and they fly straight forever without going over and have a great predictable fade at the end. I like them ALOT :D

I've got Black Pro D Challengers :D

I've got Black Pro D Challengers



How many 173 174's do you have???? And what stamps do they have on them??? And what do you want for them???

Steve I have 5 of the BHMO Challengers (not sure on weight, but I can trade them for the heavier ones) and I think a couple from other tourneys. I can send them with a friend to the World's for you if you want. I don't throw them.

Steve I have 5 of the BHMO Challengers (not sure on weight, but I can trade them for the heavier ones) and I think a couple from other tourneys. I can send them with a friend to the World's for you if you want. I don't throw them.



I want as many 173-174's as you have in the Black Pro D's :D
Black putters are my favorite and im going to buy as many as i can with tournament stamps because i dont like the regular Pro D stamp. So let me know how many you have and what you want for them and we can work out a trade or something

I could use some Orc's if you have won any this year, just don't wanna pay for them. I'll give you a good deal on the putters and PM you when I figure out what I have.
Adam

I think i have a couple Orcs. Not sure just let me know whats up with the putters. Ill buy you some orcs if need be i just WANT THOSE PUTTERS :D

Now how bout a Swirl Challenger! I love the Swirl APX but I like the challenger mold more. The UV Challenger is just way too floppy for me to putt with. I still like driving with it! D Challengers rock! Especially powdery blue ones!

Now how bout a Swirl Challenger! I love the Swirl APX but I like the challenger mold more.

:cool::cool::cool:

I would buy a slew of those and make it my next putter once worn. :)

I have a question, will the Flash and Crush ever come out in different plastic? An X-Crush would be sick! Also thank you very much for the Z-Flash, it has become my go-to driver, I can do anything with it and my bag has gotten much lighter as a result!

I really hate replying to myself, but I just found the earlier response to the request for an X-Crush. Sorry about that...

adaml what do you want for those challegers and how many do you have????????
I need to buy you some orcs so that i can bring them to worlds with me............I NEED black challengers YA YA YA :D

for keith or anyone that might know. is there a difference in the pro d challenger and cam todd challenger plastic.

The Cam Todd Challengers are a little bit stiffer than the Pro D ones...in my opinion.

thats what i was thinking......thanks for the input

Differences:

Cam ones = Hard Magnet
Pro D = flexibility of a swirl not, durability though, a little less flexable than a phton uv soft challenger

It goes cam than Pro D than soft in flexibility wise

How about bringing back the Skystreaks ?



please do

How about bringing back the Skystreaks ?



please do



Do you remember the Z-Skystreak, well not really Z, they were made in a stiffer plastic but it was really durable, I have seen them black, orange and yellow!! :DNostalgia !!

Hello All,

The past few weeks have been extremely busy and I have been slacking on the message board. No plans on bringing back the Sky-Streak right now, but I will never say never.

There will be some sweet SOFT black Challengers flying around Des Moines next week!

Be sure and check out the Worlds One Disc Ace Race going on Wednesday the 11th at Waterworks Park. There will be one at 12:00pm and at 5:00pm with a maximum of 144 players at each. The cost is just $5.00 and we pay all that back out, no prize package just cash. Amateurs, since this is a side event there are no issues with you accepting cash. You will receive a FREE Pro-D Buzzz just for participating!

I will be at the Fly-Mart Monday night with a sweet new prototype 150 class Elite-Z driver and 150 class Elite-Z Storms. Pleanty of Rapid Dry shirts, Rapid Dry polos, hats, visors and other goodies you'll have to wait and see.

Don't forget about the GoodTimes party on Saturday where we will be giving away 3 ChainStar baskets during a putting contest at the Four Points Sheraton ballroom.

DISCRAFT'S 2004 INTERNATIONAL ONE DISC ACE RACE Calendar posted at www.sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com), and you can sign up and reserve you package there for any of the event locations.

All right, that's the news for now, I've got to get ready to get out of here. Look forward to seeing everyone in Iowa.

"ou will receive a FREE Pro-D Buzzz just for participating!"

ok...when are these going to be available to the masses? i need many.

Brian,

I'm sure the Pro-D Buzzz's will be available soon, hang tight. I hope to see you at the Ace Race at the Vet on 9/5/04!

Pro-D BUZZZ...sweet :D

At Warwick, I threw Mitch's early blankstamp D-Buzzz that he snuck away with from the DGLO and it was straighter than...an XL.

Keith...what can you tell me about the player package Soft Challenger from Worlds? Run # ,availibility,ect. Thanks

Hello All,

The Pro-D Buzzz will be available in the next couple of weeks. The Worlds Edition Soft Challengers were a run of 1000 with no plans to make anymore right now. What will be available sooner than later is the Elite-Z Storm and Talon in 150 class. Look for those to be released early next week.

Thanks Keith...what about the non player package soft challengers?The ones with just the small circle gold stamp?

I'm looking for Z-Comets but where I can find those.

Are you the same Keith that was hanging around Burlington NC last summer. We had a Keith from Michigan that had been working at the Discraft factory here visiting his parentst last summer.

Hey "neighbour", why don�t you try ebay, there are a few popping up now and then:
http://search-desc.ebay.com/_Other_W0QQcatrefZC3QQfromZR10QQsacategoryZ20851QQ socurrencydisplayZ1QQsosortorderZ2QQsosortproperty Z2QQsotextsearchedZ2QQsotimedisplayZ2

Hello,

Chase, only had 23 of the Black Soft Challengers at the fly-mart. They were gone before I could blink.

Tatu, Ron Russell is selling the Elite-Z Comet on tour right now. Like said above you can also find them on Ebay. We don't have any plans to make this a permanant addition to our Elite-Z line.

Rodney, that wasn't me, that would be Keith in the back shop that was visiting down there last year.

Thats cool. I didnt know. We just refered to him as Discraft Keith (Discraft being kinda rare in Burlington, we have to drive 30-45 minutes to get to a retailer w/ any kind of selection). If he still works for you please tell him that Rodney and the Burlington crew say hello. Oh yeah, and about the lack of availability of Discraft, is it possible you could PM me w/ details how to become a retailer? We like Discraft down here (especially Z-wasps and Z-buzzes) but dont throw it too much because its too hard to get. If we had a good place or person locally to get it from it would probably take off.
thanks,
Rodney

Just tossed an Elite X Buzzz in the bag (Holiday stamp that I picked up a while back)..... and I really like the way this thing flies.... Are these going to become a production item (if so, then when) or remain the occaisional fund raiser disc?

Hi Keith,
are you going to release the Predator 2 (DGA Tsunami) under the Discraft-name also?
What about the Z-Flick when is it coming out? Are you going to release it as a "full-weight" disc also? :D

TSUNAMIS ARE THE BOMB. My favorite disc by far. I think it would be really sweet in Z Plastic because it would be more overstable then the one i have in the Blended plastic. My blended orange one is actually my straight to turnover driver unless i realease with ALOT of hyzer. I have a blue one from DGLO this year that "I HEARD" was ALL Z plastic because Discraft was seeing how that mold would run before they put it out in thier own plastic. Then they had them lying around with no stamp on them before DGLO and were like hey lets stamp these with the Tsunami stamp and give them out at DGLO. So i bought 4 of them plus the one i got in the players pack. They are AWESOME. LONG AND OVERSTABLE.

I also have a 170 proto Flick. It is also VERY LONG VERY FAST AND VERY OVERSTABLE. I dont think that i would even need one in anything over 174.

By the way if anyone has any of the Blue Z Plastic Tsunamis they want to sell i will buy all of them if they are 170 and above.

Steve...I agree...the Tsunami is the shizzle. I picked up two of them at worlds and they are all z-plastic too. I think I need to slam it into a tree or two and take some stability out of it. Has anybody seen the Tsunami in the plastic that the Riptides were originally run in? I have two yellow Riptides that feel more like x than z plastic. I would like to find some tsunami's in this style of plastic.

What color Tsunamis did you get because all the Red and Orange was are the blended plastic they just are a better mix. The Blue ones are sparkling Z Plastic which even if you bang it into some trees wont make it any less stable. If they are to stable for you ill take them off your hands and send you some of the blended ones :D

hey keith

i just picked up a signed z-storm from ron russell up here at the msdgc, was wondering if discraft was planning on making a full run of these and not just the 10-year-tour stamp run for ron? I would love to get my hands on one of these things that I am actually willing to throw :cool::D

Just curious, but how often does Keith recommend throwing an Innova disc?

If the answer is 'never,' then there's no reason to ask.
Ever.

Hello All,

Grateful_Red: The Elite-X Buzzz will be a regular production item in the near future. You will be able to find Elite-X Buzzzes on www.sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com) in the weeks to come. Look for the Pro-D Buzzz to be coming out in the next week or two also.

mf100: No telling when we may release the Tsunami in our line. We're letting the DGA have some fun with it right now. The Elite-Z Flick is now approved and will be starting to ship later this week in 150 class. Heavier weights will be available soon.

cromwell: The Elite-Z Storm 150 class will be making an apperance very soon. No telling if we will release heavy weights as a regular production item.

All right, back to working on the One Disc Ace Race.

i had seen a trial-run 150g z-storm on ebay, but i (apparently foolishly) assumed that IF there was a full run that discraft would make more than just 150-class. let my voice be at least one heard in support of heavier z-storms going into regular production. please :) now i have to find someone who can track ron down for me so i can get another one of these low-170's that i can throw out on the course, heh.

Discraft'ers: How light can one get an X-Pred? Z-Pred?

Ive seen X Preds in 164-166
Z Preds the lightest i have seen is 169 but i didnt look very hard i just came across one and bought it.

Who cares about Preds get a Tsunami already

Keith,

Thanks for the Black Soft Challengers... i picked up three recently and they are SWEET! Have a great soft feel and keep rigity in the heat... played 2 rounds with the soft challenger this past weekend in 88 degrees and unlike my supersoft putter, the challenger was still usable!

How many were produced? When is the next run scheduled?

Erick

Keith,
Will the Ace Race 2004 disc be PDGA approved soon? I've been throwing it more and more in casual rounds but it looks like I'll have to take it out of the bag this weekend for a sanctioned tournament.

It's a great flyer. I hope it's approved soon as well.

My-Hero--I saw this board for the first time just now, and thought "Keith M" was Keith Machen, since all he throws is Discraft! Since you had responded (even though I know you're with Discraft), I figured you were talking about Machen...how funny is that...

That's hilarious Derek!! :D

Is there a name for the ace race disc yet? Can't wait for it's approval.

Hello everyone,

Erick - Originally we ran 1025 of the black Soft Challengers for the Pro/Am Worlds in IA. They have just finished running the first production run and should start shipping out in the next couple of weeks.

Lou and John - The One Disc Ace Race disc has been sent in for PDGA testing. We sent it in under the name "Glide". We will have offical approval in a week or so. I'll be sure and keep you posted here when that happens.

Start looking for Elite-X Buzzz's at your local disc provider as we have started shipping those this week. The Pro-D Buzzz will be ready to ship within a couple of weeks.

Great news on the Ace Race disc, Keith. I am pretty new to the sport so this may be a stupid question, but will the discs we received for the Ace Race be legal for tournament play once the disc receives PDGA approval or will I have to buy a new one that actually says "PDGA Approved" on it?

Hello Brain,

When approved the disc you have will be legal and can be used for PDGA tournament play.

I am loving the x-buzz. And the stamp is awesome.

I am loving the x-buzz. And the stamp is awesome.



Oh yeah!

i have a question about the x-buzzz...i have a couple of the DGLO 1st runs...these have "buzzz" molded into the inside of the rim, as opposed to the z-buzzzes that i have, which have "wasp". i just saw some of the new regular run x-buzzzes...these had the wasp stamp around the edge and a new buzzz stamp in the middle...which was weird enough, but then i looked at the inside of the rim, and it was back to "wasp"...when the other x-buzzzes (DGLO) had changed it to "buzzz". ???

did the mold change between the z and the 1st run x's? did it change again before the new x buzzz? the new ones also said "limited edition" on them...i thought the x buzzz was going to be a regular production disc?

The DGLO's are actually second runs. The first run Z's and the Xmas X's are the first runs. The Buzzz was built off of the Wasp so on the first few runs, the mold still said Wasp. The new ones will all say Buzzz. The other X that you have is a mis-stamp of the first X's to be run. The stampers saw Wasp underneath so they stamped them as Wasps. I hope I didn't step on your toes, Keith! :o

When did you release the first Wasps in Z plastic? I have a older clear one with a "team disaster stamp" {really cool tornado stamp} i think from 2002-2003,Wintertime Open,and was curious about it.Fantastic Disc! thanks