Please

ask

Dave

Here!!!!

Dave, any plans for pro monster?

ce

Dave, do you know about how many Champ. Stingrays were made before you discontinued them?

good idea, that old thread is way too slow for 1000+ rated speed-posters :D

dave, any new models in the works?? how about a DX roc in the SB mold?? :Djust an idea :D

bandsagger, no immediate plans, but we have been looking into it.

robj, we may have made as many as 15,000, but half of them could have been X-parts. That is why we discontinued it.

Paul, the SB mold is the Ontario mold. We are considering it along with a new mid range disign, that we hope will turn a bit.

Dave, I'm probably in the minority, but I'd like to see an Aviar-like midrange disc that is longer than a Classic Roc :D

Which feature or features of the Aviar, are you referring to?

Dave D. -- PLEASE bring back the Proline Gremlin. Either that or allow Ching to re-release the sniper in their CE blend.

Even if it is a CFR, please do something to cover the demand for this disc. E-bay is getting out of hand.

Dave D. -- PLEASE bring back the Proline Gremlin. Either that or allow Ching to re-release the sniper in their CE blend.

Even if it is a CFR, please do something to cover the demand for this disc. E-bay is getting out of hand.

ajprice, we probably will run a limited edition candy Gremlin later this season.

sweet! :D

Which feature or features of the Aviar, are you referring to?



I like the way my JK and Champion Aviar's resist high speed turn and don't have too much low speed fade. I also like that they don't mind being thrown nose up. I can throw them 285 to 300 feet and would like something similar for the 300-330 ft range where a driver may be too much disc and an Aviar not quite enough. Maybe an Aviar with a lot of glide would do the trick :D

I carry Champ. Stingrays for wide turnover shots and I also carry the Pro Classic Roc and have been experimenting with Champ Panthers. The Pro Classic Rocs don't seem a whole lot longer than Aviars, and the fade is more pronounced. The Champ Panthers I recently added to the bag seem to want to flip, but maybe I need to learn them better. How about a big bead Stingray with a slightly deeper rim? (like i have a clue about disc design).

I need to see how I like Sharks -- but the Aviar is such a straight controllable disc that a longer Aviar would be my dream midrange disc.

Which feature or features of the Aviar, are you referring to?



I like the way my JK and Champion Aviar's resist high speed turn and don't have too much low speed fade. I also like that they don't mind being thrown nose up. I can throw them 285 to 300 feet and would like something similar for the 300-330 ft range where a driver may be too much disc and an Aviar not quite enough. Maybe an Aviar with a lot of glide would do the trick :D

I carry Champ. Stingrays for wide turnover shots and I also carry the Pro Classic Roc and have been experimenting with Champ Panthers. The Pro Classic Rocs don't seem a whole lot longer than Aviars, and the fade is more pronounced. The Champ Panthers I recently added to the bag seem to want to flip, but maybe I need to learn them better. How about a big bead Stingray with a slightly deeper rim? (like i have a clue about disc design).

I need to see how I like Sharks -- but the Aviar is such a straight controllable disc that a longer Aviar would be my dream midrange disc.



Have you tried the Spider?
That would probalby be close to what you are after.
But I agree the Big Bead Avair is an awesome disc....
Cheers,
Matt

You want a longer Aviar? The newer QMS discs are pretty close. They glide straight and forever. Personally I like the Qmega, which I find to be a longer Aviar. The mold has a little sharper nose and little less bead and has a flatter profile in general. I can throw mine a good 30-40' further than a champ. Aviar, mostly because the Qmega is a bit faster and glides longer and straighter. I don't have any problems flipping my Qmega either.

I agree with Discspeed, a transition to the QMS is very easy for Aviar/ Wizard throwers. I personally like the opaque early run QMS' , which are more like throwing a beat up DX Aviar. The newer - clearer runs of the QMS are a little more beefy. More like throwing premium plastic putters.

Thanks for the feedback. I want to try the QMS and maybe the Spider too. I play a very wooded long course mainly (Idlewild) so Champion plastic is what I am looking for. Sounds like the QMS might fit the bill...

I have an ice clear 180 QMS i will let go for $14(free shipping).

Dave,
I have a problem/question about Innova. For the most part I love my Innova discs, never had a problem with them. I purchased a CFR TL last week online and it arrived by mail Monday. I had plans of keeping this in the bag and storing it as a collectable. When I inspected the disc, it has 4 large bubbles (touch bigger than the size of a BB) in the outer ring/wing of the disc. Now I'm a bit upset, this will definately degrade the quality of it as a collectable. Not even sure if I can use this to throw, if something punctures these bubbles doesn't that make the disc PDGA illegal? I tried contacting the party I purchased it from in order to exchange or refund it and they appear to be avoiding me.

I also purchased 2 SB and 2 regular 2005 USDGC Roc's this year. Out of those, 1 SB had noticable black marks in the center of the top and 1 of the regulars had several (over 6) black flakes in the plastic mix. I was planning on storing these as well but decided to throw the two defects. So, out of 5 discs, 3 have flaws. Please understand, I'm not trying to whine about this but when you spend $125 plus shipping on 5 discs and 3 out of 5 are defective it gets a bit frustrating. How can Innova let something like this out without it becoming an X-Out, especially a $25 Fund Raiser?

joe, little bubbles and black flecks in candy plastic happen from time to time and don't hurt the flight of the disc, however, they are usually marked as X-outs. I don't know why they weren't in your case. This sort of thing does happen from time to time unfortunately. Any time you are not satisfied with your purchase you can return it for a refund or exchange.

Thanks for the feedback. I want to try the QMS and maybe the Spider too. I play a very wooded long course mainly (Idlewild) so Champion plastic is what I am looking for. Sounds like the QMS might fit the bill...




I been throwing alot of Spiders lately, since my Gremlins are getting beat. I think the first run Pro Lines and the original Star Stamps are the best. Really nice for putting from the rough, or from a uneven lie. They are very predictable.

Hi Dave,
the prototype "Zephyr" without Thumtrac, was there ever a regular run?? Do you know how many of them where produced?

mf100, yes there was one run of trackless Zephyrs. I am not sure how many we made, but it wasn't a big number. Possibly as few as 1000 - 2000. The only colors I can recall are white, and maybe yellow.

Dave, This is a non-disc related question, but I heard that Innova was coming out with a new computer game. Any truth to this?

mf100, yes there was one run of trackless Zephyrs. I am not sure how many we made, but it wasn't a big number. Possibly as few as 1000 - 2000. The only colors I can recall are white, and maybe yellow.



I have a gray one with the Innova bar stamp. I would love to find another! mf100, you have any you would trade or sell?

Jason, not as far as I know.

mf100, yes there was one run of trackless Zephyrs. I am not sure how many we made, but it wasn't a big number. Possibly as few as 1000 - 2000. The only colors I can recall are white, and maybe yellow.



I have a gray one with the Innova bar stamp. I would love to find another! mf100, you have any you would trade or sell?



Sorry Scoob, no-one :(, I�m looking for one, but there are not that many around, seen them just two times on e-bay in the lest two years!

PS I still use the Zephyr for forehand approach-shots up to 60m. Works very well for me! Love to see a test run in Pro or gummy-champ plastic ;)

Hi Dave. In a previous question I asked about Special Blend KC Eagles. Is this the same or a similar plastic that was used on the Pro Line Gremlins? I have now seen many models in this type of plastic { Eagles, Banshees, Valks, Teebirds , Panthers,ect.} and like it very much. Could there be more discs coming out in this tyoe if blend plastic? Thanks as always.

Chase, I don't remember the exact blend of KC Pro Eagles, but I doubt that it was the same as Pro Gremlins. The KC Pro was a blend of candy plastic which is different from the Pro blend we use now, as you probably know. The only difference between the blend before and now would be less weighting agent, and whether or not we use opaque color.

These are the newest Champion Eagles. Im sorry, I reffered to them as KCs since his name is on there. 11x Stamp in the new Champion.

well that's not technically the 11x stamp.. the Original 11x stamp was on the original "champion" or candy discs.. the old Proline stamp..
I understood what you meant, but for further discussion that will save the confusion.

-Scott Lewis
P.s. I've had other people call the new champions 11x and i had to return discs i traded because i only throw the old 11x Proline Teebirds. The plastic feels much different and the first few runs of the champion i got were the CAL mold and the 11x is the CA mold(which is a much sleeker mold it seems).

Greets Dave!

Ive been thinking about The pro SF mold in candy alot and bet youve tried it. Was wondering if you have and how does it fly? The first run CFR SF seemed pretty close to the SF pro but not quite. You said you were concerned about the durability of it in the "L" config. Extremly cool of you to consider this especially with the higher price, but I for one think it could be a winner!

Roc Steady, we did run CFR Starfire Ls. They fly more similar to Pro Starfires than the original, but they are still a little more high speed stable. They probably most resemble a good candy Orc at high speeds with less low speed overstability.

And are you going to produce these? It is rare that I come out and say some disc is phenomenal in fact, I'm in strong agreement with those that feel most discs (in a given class) aren't that different. That said, the Pro Starfire flies perfect for my style. It isn't the best all around disc in my bag but for down wind or no wind situations I average about 30 feet farther with this disc. Sooooo, a Candy version with the same flight (and the CFR does not fly the same) would be awesome.

And are you going to produce these? It is rare that I come out and say some disc is phenomenal in fact, I'm in strong agreement with those that feel most discs (in a given class) aren't that different. That said, the Pro Starfire flies perfect for my style. It isn't the best all around disc in my bag but for down wind or no wind situations I average about 30 feet farther with this disc. Sooooo, a Candy version with the same flight (and the CFR does not fly the same) would be awesome.




ditto. if you need a test dummy to throw 'em, sign me up! :D

Lyle and Mr. Toad, they have already been produced. They will be available as CFRs very soon.

Lyle and Mr. Toad, they have already been produced. They will be available as CFRs very soon.



I can't wait!! ;)

PT Woods
# 20431

I just hope that yall did something to differentiate the SF-L from the other CFR starfires.

William, I the SFLs are marked SL instead of SF on the rim wall.

Thanks Dave.

Lyle and Mr. Toad, they have already been produced. They will be available as CFRs very soon.



woohoo!!!! durability + glideability = winner!!!

Dave,
I have a problem/question about Innova. For the most part I love my Innova discs, never had a problem with them. I purchased a CFR TL last week online and it arrived by mail Monday. I had plans of keeping this in the bag and storing it as a collectable. When I inspected the disc, it has 4 large bubbles (touch bigger than the size of a BB) in the outer ring/wing of the disc. Now I'm a bit upset, this will definately degrade the quality of it as a collectable. Not even sure if I can use this to throw, if something punctures these bubbles doesn't that make the disc PDGA illegal? I tried contacting the party I purchased it from in order to exchange or refund it and they appear to be avoiding me.

I also purchased 2 SB and 2 regular 2005 USDGC Roc's this year. Out of those, 1 SB had noticable black marks in the center of the top and 1 of the regulars had several (over 6) black flakes in the plastic mix. I was planning on storing these as well but decided to throw the two defects. So, out of 5 discs, 3 have flaws. Please understand, I'm not trying to whine about this but when you spend $125 plus shipping on 5 discs and 3 out of 5 are defective it gets a bit frustrating. How can Innova let something like this out without it becoming an X-Out, especially a $25 Fund Raiser?



I would like to publicly thank Innova for resolving this matter. They are replacing the TL disc at no cost, even going as far as re-running the original stamp just for this one disc (told them not to, just give me any TL stamp, but they insisted). I should have the replacement before the week is out. Defective unit to be shipped back to them. Dave, it was Johnathan who took care of this for me. Harold was out of the office when I called. Thanks again.

William, I the SFLs are marked SL instead of SF on the rim wall.



What Tournament were they made for?

PT Woods
# 20431

Dave, do you still run the JK Aviars in the firmer plastic or was that a mistake run? I like these quite a bit more than the really soft ones and there seems to be a lot of them being used, but they are getting harder to find. Everyone I talk to seems to have a different story on why some were made with the firmer plastic. thanks

Dave, what does "SX" on a disc mean? I have seen it on very light discs that were supposed to be Starfires. Is there an overstable X-mold for the Starfires?

Yeah...probably so.

Dave,

I have gotten my hands on some of the CFR Orcs and love thier flight.

Any plans on running large numbers of these like you did with TL's?

primetime, they have just been released and I don't have the info available yet. Sorry.

flick-n-putt, that was a mistake, but every run seems to have some of those. It might be a good idea to have a variant, which would be in-between KC and JK stiffness and marked as such. The latest run of JK is fairly soft, but not the softest ever. Very straight with less low speed overstability. This current run is hands down my favorite.

Rhett, that was probably the prototype mark for the latest CFR Starfires, or "second run" Starfires.

Dave, I think he was thinking about the early 4x JK aviars...because they were STIFF. I mean if you hit a number plate with one it would put a nasty gouge in it.

I think you mentioned that the mixture was a mistake and fixed it and sent out new 4x's which were softer.

MTL, the CFR glow Orcs will only be available as CFR, but there was a pretty good amount of them made at the time. I believe they are one of our most popular CFR discs.

William, that sounds correct.

How can we tell if they [JK Aviars} are from the latest run? Living in the boonies, I have to order discs online. Any discription or markings I can use to ask for discs from this run?
And ... a CFR Starfire Ls ... SWEET! I love the Pro Starfire ... but the trees/rocks on my home course are killing the pro plastic pretty quickly. I will be looking to purchase a few of the CFR's as soon as they are available.

Lyle and Mr. Toad, they have already been produced. They will be available as CFRs very soon.



O.K. cancel the order for the Pro Starfires, place order for extra CFR versions... Done!

Thanks!

The latest run of JK [Aviar-x] is fairly soft, but not the softest ever. Very straight with less low speed overstability. This current run is hands down my favorite.



Dave, will this new run be the new stamp which won't say 5x but simply be a JK Pro? Is the softness about like the 3x's?

Also, recently I acquired what were described as proto JK Aviars -- they have a rainbow INNOVA barstamp and simply say "JK Aviar X" in small print beneathe it. They are soft and grippy but not as soft as 3x's... Do you know about how many of these were made?

Dave, do you still run the JK Aviars in the firmer plastic or was that a mistake run? I like these quite a bit more than the really soft ones and there seems to be a lot of them being used, but they are getting harder to find. Everyone I talk to seems to have a different story on why some were made with the firmer plastic. thanks

I know that there are some firmer JKs at Innova East, but they are for the 165-169 weight class. Not sure if they are as stiff as some would like, but I notice a difference between the 165-169 weight class and the 170-175 weight class.

Dave,
I have been out throwing (and loving) my Cobra Classic(s). Are they still being produced?
My CCs get a better glide and less turn than my Cobra. Could that be because my CCs are 180 and my Cobra is only a 167.
Would a champion Cobra act more like my CC? Heavy or light. I am learning to like my Champion Sidewinder and Orc.
Finally. How does a CC compare to (almost) everyone elses Roc?

Thanks
Rod

Rod, yes, we produce Classic Cobras on a limited basis. Better glide and more turn is not usually associated with heavier weight, but just with the particular disign of the Classic vs. the regular. A Champion Cobra would act more like a regular Roc that has been slightly beat.

Oh well....keep a few of the CCs hidden in the back :D

To me....a Sidewinder has the same basic flight as a CC...just a lot longer. Would a Teebird-L be a good "in-between" disk.

Thanks again.

Dave, is the thumbtrac dead? Does innova ever plan to release it on any discs other than the rhyno? (forgive my ignorance if you HAVE, but ive never seen/heard of any). If so, would/could they be more stable than rhynos?

I think the rhyno is a great approach disc/wind putter, but a thumbtrac'd disc that was stable at slower speeds would be an excellent all-around putter in my opinion.

Dave, is the thumbtrac dead? Does innova ever plan to release it on any discs other than the rhyno? (forgive my ignorance if you HAVE, but ive never seen/heard of any). If so, would/could they be more stable than rhynos?

The Wolf and Birdie both have a Thumbtrac�. The Rhyno is significantly more overstable than either.

Rod, I think the Champion Leopard might be a good in-between disc as well as the TL.

cromwell, have you thrown a Pirahna? it's got the trac and is VERY SLOW and VERY STABLE. i believe they are discontinued but i think you'd be able to find them online, if not here on the message board :cool:

cromwell, besides the Wolf and Birdie, as Fore mentioned (which we still inventory), we have had the Puma (which has been discontinued) Also, in larger size discs, we make three other Thumtrac models that are used for other disc sports. Of those, the Zephyr probably sees the most use for disc golf. The others are the Golfer, which is larger than a Birdie and smaller than a Zephyr, and the Ultimate sized Super Nova..

Dave, this might seem crazy, but have ya'll ever produced any "night shift" Rhynos? I ask because I have a pearlescent one that is 171g and it is just different than any other Champ. Rhyno that I have ever seen. It is softer than most of the pro rhynos that I have seen.

guess it's a good thing i claimed ignorance :) tho it's not surprising given the few models that are OOP.... i *have* thrown a birdie before but it was a long time ago and honestly the tire-like rim stood out in my memory more than the fact that the disc had a thumbtrac. but i may have to give some of these other discs a shot (assuming i can find some of them), thanks for the info everyone.

I don't think there will be a putter made that is more stable than the Rhyno whether it's made with a thumbtrac or NOT.. rhynos are stable badboys. more stable than my crystal Z challengers and even my JK Aviars.

-Scott Lewis

PIRAHNA!!!! :D

guess it's a good thing i claimed ignorance :) tho it's not surprising given the few models that are OOP.... i *have* thrown a birdie before but it was a long time ago and honestly the tire-like rim stood out in my memory more than the fact that the disc had a thumbtrac.

One of the earlier generation Birdie molds did not have the Thumbtrac�, so you may not remember the Birdie having a Thumbtrac� because the one you threw didn't have one!

Re: the Piranha�the Piranha came in three flavors: narrow tall (ThumbTrac�), narrow short, and wide (first, second, and third generation). I believe that the third gen. Piranha morphed into (became) the third gen. Birdie.

Dave, did you see my question above about proto JK Aviars? Do you remember if many were made and how durable that plastic was?

Mr Zonker, usuallly the softest candy would be clear and look like a lifesaver candy, but weird stuff happens to that type of plastic all the time. The night shift effect comes from a color mixing with a particular plastic.

Robj, sorry, I didn't see your question or couldn't figure out the answer and forgot to answer. Anyway, I don't know the answer. I have to stand by what I said about the softness, which was that they are soft, but not the softest. They remind me of the very first proto run in feel, but they are definitely the straightest. As for the proto JKs, I don't know how many were made, but I would guess in the neighborhood of 2000 to 4000. Probably less than 4000, but I am guessing.

Felix, as usual, you are correct. :cool:

I don't think there will be a putter made that is more stable than the Rhyno whether it's made with a thumbtrac or NOT.. rhynos are stable badboys. more stable than my crystal Z challengers and even my JK Aviars. -Scott Lewis



by "stable" i meant "flat", not "overstable".

Dave whats the word on the travellers? Are they coming back anytime soon, I would love to order one.

Hey dave I bought a "ce" cobra on ebay for 30 bucks it was sleak black and had a rainbow first run stamp on it. There is one for sale right now on ebay and the seller is claiming that there were only 300 made some black and some gold. Is this truley ce plastic or is this a first run champion cobra? The reason I ask is because I have some opaque cobras that don't feel too much different. PS thank you for the cobra it is my all time favorite golf disc. Also if you don't mind could you explain the diffrent molds and plastics that have been used for the cobra over the years.

These Cobra's were released at the Worlds in Flagstaff, same plastic as the 1st run Starfire. Not true CE plastic.

willie, yes the Traveller has been strengthened and will be available soon.

skidchicken, it would most likely be a candy or Champion Cobra, though the difference between that and CE would be minimal. It would take too long to go through all the plastics that have been used other than to say DX, Pro, and Champion. There are two different Cobra types: the San Marino original that we call the Classic, and the Flattop Ontario that we have used for the past 10 years or so. The Ontario is the mold we used for the Pro and Champion runs.

hey Dave, the Innova website's latest disc index (http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/index.html) is very cool.

the chart comparing the Beast, Orc, Starfire, and Monster flightpaths (see for exaple the chart here: Orc page (http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/orc.html)
seems to be using the CFR Starfire's flight and not the Pro Starfire (Starfire-L)? Does that sound right? (I would put the Pro Starfire as finishing to the right of the Orc)

Rob, yes, that is the candy Starfire.

Well hello Senior Dave,Just thought i'd shout out a howdy.Been a few days since we've played a little golf together.Dad told me he's been keeping you posted on our progress here in Arkansas.Maybe some day you'll get a chance to check it out.Take care.PITCH JR.

Dave I was wondering if you could help me place an aviar i have. it's an old aviar with the 1991 stamp on it. and i got it brand new in the early 90's not sure when i wasn't even 10 at the time. but it just has PUTTER on the top where all the other 1991 stamps i've ever seen say Putt and Approach. any info would be nice. thanks.

: ) :

Hi Tom. Good to hear from you. Keep up all the good work. Thanks.

Friar, we have gone through a few stamps before the present stamp. Was that the one with the picture of the hands putting the Aviar? If not, what does the picture look like?

the view is from the pole looking at a disc going into the chains. from top of disc to bottom it goes.
AVIAR
PUTTER
*picture of disc*
*bottom of basket*

: ) :

Half of the run of 15,000 estimated were X-parts (i.e. x out discs)???? Was there trouble with the mold or something for the champion stingray? Are you going to produce them again in the future?

Half of the run of 15,000 estimated were X-parts (i.e. x out discs)???? Was there trouble with the mold or something for the champion stingray? Are you going to produce them again in the future?



I'm also wondering of the 7500 or so that weren't X-outs, were more of the good ones heavy or light?

Wouldn't that be eXtra? As in, 'not Leopard'.

Rod, yes, we produce Classic Cobras on a limited basis. Better glide and more turn is not usually associated with heavier weight, but just with the particular disign of the Classic vs. the regular. A Champion Cobra would act more like a regular Roc that has been slightly beat.



I really like the gilde and precision I get with my max weight Proline Cobra but I would like it even more if it had less turn.
How much do Pro Cobra differ from Champion Cobra regarding turn and fade? No difference? A lot?

I'm also wondering of the 7500 or so that weren't X-outs, were more of the good ones heavy or light?



Yea, i'd like to know that too. The Stingray is one of the best discs ever made. It's too bad they are discontinuing the champion. I was really happy to see they were going to produce it.

Dave D,

What's the story on these? They all have KC's sig in gold paint pen. They are all #45 of 50.

1x, 2x, 3x, 4x, 4x, and 5x? And why are there 2 different 4x's?


click to enlarge
http://www.glowfoto.com/images/2005/05/15-2019201353T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=15-201920L&y=2005&m=05&t=jpg&rand=1353&srv=www)

Scorpion, yes the mold was old and the particular shape was not easy to fill.

Friar, I believe the art was by Frank Allen of Arizona. It was used for a few years in the 90s, then replaced by the current stamp.

robj, I believe most were in the 70s, but not necessarily max.

Iam72, the Champion Cobras fly similar to a broken in Roc. The Pro Cobras have a little more turn and a little more glide I believe.

John, I don't know the full story, but five of them were custom hotstamps done by Ken's sponsor, Flying Eye. The lower left four time stamp might have been done by us. They were all done as collector discs. I would guess most were on Vipers as that was Ken's favorite back then.

Thanks for the info. These are all on Gazelle's.

dave, are there any future plans for other discs in the special blend plastic? if so can you share some insight? i wish all my discs were in this plastic!!

efrain, we will use that blend from time to time. We have been researching for different ways to do it. So far no luck.

Dave,

Not technically an Innova question here, but do you know the rim width on the new Orion LS? Beast wide? Valkyrie wide? TeeBird wide? Thanks.

Are the Champion Stingray's discontiniued??

I only ask because there are at least 5-10 avaliable at our local store. Please let me know.

Yes, Champ Stingrays were discontinued due to molding problems. Stores may still have some. I know a vendor who ordered from Innova East several weeks ago and the warehouse still had some heavy ones left (fly-dye versions).

sould I buy some for ebay?

I'd say let the people who want to throw them have them, but there are probably people buying them up for the very purpose you suggest :D

Thanks for your help ;)

I will buy one to try.

And a couple just too see what happens, if nothing else I can put the in the box for our minims.
THanks agian, Jason

Yes, Champ Stingrays were discontinued due to molding problems. Stores may still have some. I know a vendor who ordered from Innova East several weeks ago and the warehouse still had some heavy ones left (fly-dye versions).

No more I-Dye left, but there are some others still on stock.

No more I-Dye left, but there are some others still on stock.



Do you mean at Innova East? If so, I didn't think they had any heavy Champion Stingrays left? :confused:

No more I-Dye left, but there are some others still on stock.



Do you mean at Innova East? If so, I didn't think they had any heavy Champion Stingrays left? :confused:

I do mean Innova East, but we may be out. I believe that there was 1/2 box of heavy left, but I may be mistaken. I will look to see if there are any tomorrow.

Hawk, the width is similar to the Valk.

Omegaputt, the Champion Stingray has been discontinued. If we have time, we might try it in the Ontario configuration, but I don't have confidence in it. Probably going to be too stable.

Dave - You mentioned the SB plastic has been used from time to time. Do you know if any was used for the Champion Stingrays? I have one the looks/feels similar to a '05 SB Roc.

Thanks.

Dave,

In case the question about this set ever comes up again, here is some info that Bucky Worboys wrote:

click to enlarge
http://www.glowfoto.com/images/2005/05/15-2019201353T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=15-201920L&y=2005&m=05&t=jpg&rand=1353&srv=www)

[/QUOTE]




John,

I produced this set back in 1996 and there were only 50 made. They originally sold for $75, and it contained all but #'s 7 & 8. I produced 50 more of the 7X & 8X after Ken won those championships and offered them to those who had purchased the original set. It was the responsibility of the people who actually had the sets to contact me, but few did and as a result there are only a handful of people that have a complete set. The last two sets I sold on Ebay went for $300.

Ims, it might have been. I don't know for sure, but if it was, it would be the same colors as before: Yellow, blue, or red. Sometimes combinations of those colors come out too. The blue and the red color are not particularly bright.

This one is orange. Thanks for the information.

hey dave,
why isn't the regular Teebird being produced in Pro plastic anymore? is it because, like you said, the L molds of discs hold up better?
I was hoping to add one to my bag, but i heard the first runs of the new pro discs were made of a very floppy plastic.

-Scott Lewis

I just purchased 2 new champion orcs (wts 169 and 168). I was just curious as to why the 169 is far more gummy and flexible then the 168. They are pretty much the same color, but the 168 appears to be swirled a little more. Is this a run difference or more of a batch difference?

Hi Yoda. I was curious what the ratio #s are on "gummy" discs? Thanks as always.

Scott, yes the L molds hold up better with Pro. The first runs of the Pro plastic was floppy, but I believe we changed during the TeeBird run. The Pro Orcs were floppy.

Schraj, it is more of a batch difference due to the individual running the disc at the time. In the past, lighter weights were more gummy because that is all we had for lighter plastic. We now have a lighter plastic that is stiffer too, so there is no need to have them gummy if we don't want them that way. That being said, different strokes for different folks. I personally like a little gummy as do most of my disc golf buddies, but most of the Pros like stiffer. The differences are only a problem if you shop on line. If you shop in person, you can pick out want you want given the selection.

chase, I am not sure what your question is. We use gummy plastic on some discs like Rhynos almost exclusively, but use very little on others like USDGC Rocs. Usually the gummy is reserved for light weight discs or discs that won't get light any other way.

Hi Dave! The talk in the current roller (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=373636&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) thread got me to thinking: Are sidearm and "baseball throw" type rollers two different animals? And, if so, is the 'woodchop' "backhanded" roller which Sweeney uses, where the arc of his delivery is almost vertical, something OTHER than a backhand roller? It seems to me there are at least FOUR kinds of rollers, not just two.

Hi Steve. Actually there are many types of rollers. More than a dozen that I know of. Three deliveries with backhand spin (Backhand, scoobie, and hook thumb) and two with sidearm spin (two finger, and thumber). Within those delivery types there are different types of roller kinds such as flip or cut rollers. There are also unstable or wide path rollers and narrow path stable rollers which are kind of like flip and cut but both end up flipping. There are also sky roller or big loop rollers vs. straight flip and straight stable. When you roll a certain type of disc it limits your choices of how you can roll it. A Firebird for instance is good for cut rollers and looping or driving straight ahead rollers that are released steeply. A Stingray, on the other hand, is good for Sky rollers and flip rollers that are released much less steeply.

Wow; a dozen plus!! :eek: :cool:

Dave,

Here is a question that I have not seen asked (admittedly I just did a quick search only) for a tournament I ran in December I participated in the tournament sponsorship program that Innova offers and got 50 (I think) Starfires. By the way, thanks the discs were great! One thing that was pointed out to me was that some had the record effect and that some did not. The second thing that was pointed out was that the non-record effect SF's appeared to have an Orc feel to them in the lip. Several people around here are even calling them Storcs. What can you tell me about this? Thanks.

Oh and did I say thanks the discs were great yet?

No more I-Dye left, but there are some others still on stock.



Do you mean at Innova East? If so, I didn't think they had any heavy Champion Stingrays left? :confused:

I do mean Innova East, but we may be out. I believe that there was 1/2 box of heavy left, but I may be mistaken. I will look to see if there are any tomorrow.

There was 1/2 to 3/4 of a case of heavy stingrays in the warehouse when I looked today.

chase, I am not sure what your question is. We use gummy plastic on some discs like Rhynos almost exclusively, but use very little on others like USDGC Rocs. Usually the gummy is reserved for light weight discs or discs that won't get light any other way.





Theres a Gummy Beast on Ebay that the seller says was rationed to distributers. I think he said 1 per case.? Not sure, but I thought it was strange as I have seen lots of Gummys. Perhaps he was speaking of Gummy ICE discs? Thats what hes selling a Ice Gummy Beast. No worries, Sir. Jusr curious.

jerry, whether the disc has the record effect or not doesn't matter. They're duplicate parts. The Orc feeling Starfires are the second and current type. The non Orc feeling Starfires are first run.

jerry, whether the disc has the record effect or not doesn't matter. They're duplicate parts. The Orc feeling Starfires are the second and current type. The non Orc feeling Starfires are first run.



AH HA!

Thanks Dave. That is the best explanation I have heard. I have one that feels like a Teebird, and one that feels like an Orc. Now I know, thank you.

Hey Dave,

So when will the retooled Champion Starfires be available? Is there a list of tournaments up somewhere? I'm really looking forward to getting a couple! The Pro Starfire has change the way I drive a bunch of holes I couldn't quite reach before.

And interestingly (to me) I generally thow 168g T-Birds, Orcs, etc. But I'm having great success with a 171g Pro Starfire. I wonder if I'm getting stronger, or if it's just the nature of this particular disc.

pro starfires are less stable like the 1st run cfr starfires. the new ones are much more overstable than the old ones, but also more predictable. if you like the pro starfires you probably won't like the new cfr starfires as much.

i think the pro starfires combine the predictability of 2nd run cfr's and the length of 1st runs cfrs. it's a really great disc dave! thanks!

if you like the pro starfires you probably won't like the new cfr starfires as much.



I may be wrong, but I think he was referring to the new CFR Starfire SL's that are a "L"ess stable version. Just came out, only one I have seen is on Ebay and is going for quite a price. Me, I'll wait thank you very much /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

That's what I heard too -- that the new CFR Starfire (SL's?) are the Pro Starfire mold in Candy plastic so they are more like the Pro Starfires -- not less...

maybe Dr.Live (DrEvil) has it backwards :D

Robj, you guys are correct. There are two current versions of CFR Starfires. The second run Orc feeling kind, and the SL or Pro Starfire kind. A couple of orders have gone out already. I heard that discgolfvalues.com has seven SLs.

ok, if there is a 3rd run of starfires in the l configuration, my analysis is flawed. i will tell you i am going to get me some of those!

dave, are the starfire L's a cfr or a regular champion disc?

Dave,

So there are 3 distinct Starfires, correct?

The Pro Starfire has:
10 speed
5 glide
-1 turn
2 fade

The new champion fundraiser (aka Starfire-L) has
10 speed
4 glide
0 turn
3 fade

What were the first run (discontinued) Champion Starfire's numbers?

And when you were saying that the Champion Starfire is a good upwind disc a while back, were you talking about the first run Champion Starfires, or the new one? (I think you were talking about the original, but I wanted to be sure)

Also, how approximately many of the original do you think were made?

DrEvil, CFR only for SLs. That is the configuration we do Pro Starfires in.

Matt, most of it you have right. There have been three distinct Starfire configurations, but there are only two being made now. The cfr original's numbers are probably 10, 4, -1, +3. The current model is probably 10,4,0,+3. The numbers for the Pro are 10,5,-1,+2. The numbers for the CFR SL are pretty close to the Pro, but I don't know if we have finalized them yet as we haven't had a lot of throwing time and they appear to be half numbers, which we don't want to use. I would say 10,4 1/2,-1/2,+2 1/2. Too messy. The good upwind Starfire is the present CFR, not the original and not the SL.

Dave,

Another geeky question about disc numbers. The online vendor who had the numbers for the QJLS you thought were a tad bit off is quoting the following for the new Orion LS:


Stability Rating: Speed: 9 Glide: 4 Turn: 0 Fade: +1.5




How accurate do you feel this is? Thanks.

Dave, is it Starfire-L (SL) like Teebird-L (TL) or is it Starfire-SL (SSL)? :D

Hawk, the number are fairly accurate. I would say 9, 4 1/2, -1/2, 2

Rob, it's SL like TL.

Dave, on the proto KC Rocs ive seen,there have been 2 types of stamps.One says Innova, choice of champions with a disc through the middle of the word Innova.The other says Innova with a bar through the middle that says champion discs.Are these both 8x proto Rocs or is one stamp something different? Thanks for your time.

dave aren't there actually 4 starfires? wasn't the regular cfr starfire originally (2003) a little unpredictable and less stable and then it was retooled into the current cfr starfire? or was it retooled into the current starfire L , making them the same disc?

CE, you're going to have to ask the general discussion, as I don't know, sorry. I can tell you that the distinguishing features of the mold are apparent. The engraving is either Rancho or Ontario, and the nose is either sharper or rounder. The sharper nose is the more stable version. The Rancho is the newer version which can go with either nose.

What you say is correct, but the count is still three. Original, Stable, and SL. You might be counting the Pro as another configuration, but it is SL.

Morning Dave. As always, thanks for feeding our addiction. I asked a month or so ago about future availability of lighter weight Pro Starfires. Still curious about that, but with all the recent discussion of CFR SL's will there be 160-ish or lighter versions of the mold available in Champ Plastic any time soon? :D

thanks dave, i was counting the pros. my bad.

i can't wait to try an SL. the pro is great, but seems a little unpredictable in a headbreeze for me. i can't seem to judge how much it will flip.

im sure dave will know better than me, but i just ordered two cfr-sl's 165 gr. these were the lightest he had and he only had two.(mark molnar, discgolfvalues.com) these discs were from the golden state classic, so if you can find a source for those tourney stamped-discs you may be able to get one, whatever weight.
i imagine in the near future other tournaments will be feeding our "addiction" for premium plastic in the starfire-L mold....right dave? :D

Riverdog, the lightest we produced in any numbers, was about 165gm. I did see some X-parts as low as 162. Next run we will attempt low sixties, it should be possible, but no guarantee.

Mr. Toad, it should be happening now. My guess is it will take over for the glow Orc, as the most popular CFR disc.

Danke, Dave. :)

glow orcs!!! :p

dave, question about cfr discs. other than the starfires, which you just said you are hoping to get into the low 60's, what other cfr discs will be available at 165 and below? many people want those and i like to have some light weight stuff for women and old men (like me!)

......and me. :cool:

.......and the little children. Got's to keep the younguns happy. :D

DrEvil, most of the CFR discs are glow which makes them a little heavier. However, it is only the largest rim discs that can't get down very low in candy. Beast, Orc, Starfire, Monster. All others can get down into the low sixties, fifties, and many times forties.

it would be awesome if more of those could be available. i ordered 100 last year and asked for as many low weights as possible. the lowest i got was 165 , and only about 4-5 (1 banshee, 2 eagles, and a couple ce classic rocs). for potential sponsors, lighter weightsa are much better. many sponsors are beginners who can't begin to throw a 175 banshee or tbird....much less the vipers i got!!!

DrEvil, we are putting the Orc in on Monday. I will make an effort to see how low I can go with it. It will be glow, so I don't know if I can get much below 165 gms. In regular candy (non glo), we can get down to about 158 gms. The Eagle has gone in too. I know we can get that down into the fifties in glo and forties in regular candy. The Valkyrie has a good shot at low sixties in glow.

i'd appreciate it if you could keep us posted as to which ones work out in the low 60's and 50's . i'd like to order stuff to keep the women and sponsors happy for my supertour event!

So you won't be ordering the Vipers again this year? :confused: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

DrEvil, we are putting the Orc in on Monday. I will make an effort to see how low I can go with it. It will be glow, so I don't know if I can get much below 165 gms. In regular candy (non glo), we can get down to about 158 gms. The Eagle has gone in too. I know we can get that down into the fifties in glo and forties in regular candy. The Valkyrie has a good shot at low sixties in glow.



Cool !!!!! Hey Dave , How's it going ?
I'm sure your busy as heck with all the new stuff.

On the Glow Orc's.........what type of plastic can you run it in ? In Dx only ? Pro material ? Or even Candy / Champion edition material ?

Either way , I'll probably get them all. Just though I'd ask.

Thanks ,

Donny Olow

Hi Donny. It will be the Champion Starfire. We may also do DX, but not Pro.

:confused: do you mean Champion Glow Orc?

Rob and Donny, OOOOOps, yes, I meant CFR Orc.

cfr orc?

CFR Glow Orc probably

Yes, CFR glow Orc. We use those for INNColor discs.

Hi Dave. I had a question about DX Beasts. I have thrown these forever, but picked up one this weekend that is really different. It is VERY stiff and has a "poppy top". This thing is mad overstable and I was wondering if this is a "new" DX mix. I ask because I have three types of DX Beasts. { All have the modern stamp } The normal DX , a flimsy DX that can almost be rolled up, and this new super stiff with the high dome. I want more of these poppy topped ones and hope they are a new mix, and more will be available. Thank you Sir.

Dave-I picked up a bottom stamp roc this weekend. It has the new innova logo and new roc lettering, and it is very domey and poppy. This is the most overstable roc I have ever thrown, it feels like KC mixed with Pro. Is this an inbetween-runs plastic or are there going to be many of these? Either way THANK YOU!

Chase that is a newer mix, but we thought it was a little too much of a good thing. The latest mix is between the two.

Rendroc, same answer as Chase.

............and a new collectible DX roc is born :D:p :cool:

Chase that is a newer mix, but we thought it was a little too much of a good thing. The latest mix is between the two.




So these stiff Beasts are going to be hard to get stock of?

The latest run will be stiffer than before, but probably not as stiff as the ones you describe.

Thanks Dave. Im on the lookout as we speak for the stiffys.

E.D.G.E. discs

Where I can order them? Didn't see them on zonedriven.com, but the innova site lists them. E.D.G.E. doesn't seem to sellthem through their site either.

Thanks.

oneacesofar, I am not sure which retailers have them, but you can contact Innova East at 803 366 5028. They can direct you.

Dave, the picture of the Champ Starfire L on the website with the cool flaming mini-star ... Who's doing that stamp? That's awesome! I want one!!!
Champ Starfire (http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/cfrstarfire.html)

Yep, that's a sweet looking disc.

Also, the new disc selection guide rocks

Most of the new CFR discs are glow candy. Contact info: cfrprogram@innovadiscs.com.

Boneman, I believe Matt Peckham did that one.

Yep, that's a sweet looking disc.

Also, the new disc selection guide rocks



Nice Avatar. Like to have that design for a hotstamp.
Witch King riding the Fell beast !!!!!! :eek:

Flying Nazgul

Hey, that's a new disc. A Flying Nazgul.

That stamp was one we did for the players packs at last year's USDGC. As far as I know, that is the only time they were run. Just threw mine into "the lake" tonight, and am majorly bummed. Time for some snorkling gear!

This is the perfect forum for my curiosity on Innova Discs, i've heard rumors around my local course that innova is coming out with a few brand new discs, one specifically designed as a roller and another as a more overstable midrange than anything they currently produce (perhaps for really windy days) is there any truth to any of this? and i don't mean to be insulting by asking an innova guy about this, but do you think the Discwing Quarter K is gonna live up to all the hype, and anybody that has tried one, what'd ya think?

I threw a QuarterK the other day. And I didn't like the feel of the disc. The other two guys liked it. Nothing revolutionary there IMHO. But for this discussion there is surely another thread here.

If Innova comes out with an overstable midrange that would rock. Hope they do.

The champ gator is pretty overstable and is a midrange....so voila.

You also have a choice of a whippit or viper...

Innova_Beast, interesting rumour. We are working on a number of discs, but have nothing ready for certification or release. The closest at this time is a mid-range, but it is not overstable. Even this won't be on sale for a month or so. The roller disc is one we are working on, but will take even longer. I'd rather not comment on the QK. I will leave that up to everyone else.

oops, Will beat me to the punch...

The champ gator is pretty overstable and is a midrange....so voila.

You also have a choice of a whippit or viper...



Champ Gator....midrange? I don't know, I can barely push my gator 300 if I crank it with alot of annie, where as my actual midranges (made by another company) I can get out to 350' with a flat release. PS my champ gator is flat where others I have seen are domey, did I get lucky? :D

Innova does have a great overstable midrange. It is called the Champion Glow Roc. However you can only get it once a year, and you have to give up your first born for one.

The champ gator is a great disc, but it is more of an ultility disc IMO. Ditto on the Viper, but that is a HUGE disc it is like throwing a lid.

you can go 300 with a gator? wow!

I had a DX Gator I could throw as Far as my Rocs (around 300') I haven't thrown the Champ Gator though.

Champion Gator; Overstable Mid range. All that I have seen with the ring stamp { Proto Stamp} are flat-topped. I have seen newer realeases { Innova Stamp} that are clear {Non Pearl} that have a slightly higher dome.

If you dont consider the Champion Whippet or Champion Gator mid ranges, you must have a giant arm. I play with one of the deepest throwers out there and he uses these as short drivers/ midranges. I seriously doubt you could come close to outdriving him.

Not to get off topic, but to give you an idea of what I throw distance wise. (With decent accuracy, inside 30ft diameter 75% of the time)

Whippet's, Gator's, Viper's, Challenger's ~300ft
Buzzz's, Wasp's, Roc's ~350ft
Teebird's, Talon's ~400ft
Orc's, Beast's, Starfire's, Crushes ~450ft

I have a decent arm by most standards. Not pro level yet. But I am getting there.

Now back to asking Dave questions :D

how much you wanna bet me i could throw this pig skin over those mountains.

: ) :

http://www.innovadiscs.com/images/faqbanner.jpg

Hey Dave, these look sweet, when's the release date? :D

Yeah because then, when us amateurs shank a throw with them, we can just say Ah Faq, dang disc! No No No! Faq!

:D:D

Hey Dave, do you know where I might be able to obtain the new Starfire-L. I figured you might know since it's such a new mold + only available in the CFR program and probably only a few batches have been ordered so far. Not looking for an Incolor because it will used for driv'n. thanks

Chad i have some brand new 1st run starfires which isn't as stable as the second run.

If you are going to be in durham this weekend, I will let you throw mine and see how you like it.

~plank

flick and putt, the Starfire Ls are available at the Terrace Creek Open in Mt Lake Terrace, Washington July 16, 17. Team Utah Disc Golf Assn. I don't have any other info right now.

flick and putt, the Starfire Ls are available at the Terrace Creek Open in Mt Lake Terrace, Washington July 16, 17. Team Utah Disc Golf Assn. I don't have any other info right now.




uh, dave, correct me if im wrong but isnt team utah,.......in utah? :D :eek:......
but i have heard a rumor that the "Peoples Republic of Utah" is invading neighboring religious territories to bring enlightenment to sinners abroad. :D

Greetings Dave,
Will there ever be any big bead Aviars available for clubs to custom stamp? Now with the KC and JK taken, I don't think we can even get DX Aviars to stamp. Is this correct?
Thanks,
Axis

Axis, the DX are definitely available for custom stamps. The JKs and KCs have not been available. Classics may become available. Pros may become available. Classics and DX are small bead, Pros are big bead. KCs and JKs are big bead too.

Was the KC ever available for hotstamp??? Other then the KC Logo.

hey dave the Pro Aviars are available for custom stamps. We got 25 of them for the Louisiana States.

oh boy... too funny....

mikey, cool, thanks.

Hi Dave,
Thanks, we get the small bead DX Aviars stamped all the time, but do you still make the big bead DX we can stamp?
Thanks,
Axis

axis, no we don't. Sorry.

hey dave

I have an old Cheetah2 kicking around, did some googling and found out they never went into full production so there weren't many of these made. Anything worth holding onto or worthless memoribilia for an idea that never came to fruition?

thanks

cromwell, I don't know what the collector market values as collectable. It is a rare disc, and it won't be produced again.

The Cheetah II is selling for b/t $15 and $20. I've got two and will hold on to them.

Dave,
I was really excited when I saw a few weeks ago that you were making CFR Glow FL's. I've got a friend who loved his, but I wasn't willing to spend $50+ on ebay for a CE FL. Last week, I found a few CFR X-outs on ebay being sold by Mark from discgolfvalues. One of them was not a glow, but a very light pinkish-red that has black flecks in it. He claimed it was a rare colored CFR FL. I looked on the Innova website, and there is no mention of non-glow FL's. Do you know, how rare is this colored FL?

Sorry if this has been asked an answered, but I love the new soft JK Aviars I have picked up recently. Are these discs freaks, or can I expect to be able to get more? Either way I seem to be buying all of them I see.

DGday, if Mark was talking about the particular color, it is definitely rare. If he was talking about any colored FL, it is not as rare, but still rare. Most everything Mark sells is rare to some degree or another, or hard to find.

ajones, the new run of JKs are soft and very straight flying as opposed to all other runs which have been more low speed overstable.

Dave,

I got a 4x JK aviar that is orange from Rick Black this past weekend. This was the first time I ever saw an orange 4x aviar(only had seen white, blue, and yellow).

Were there a lot of these produced? And if so why have I not seen any in the stores around here...

You want a longer Aviar? The newer QMS discs are pretty close. They glide straight and forever. Personally I like the Qmega, which I find to be a longer Aviar. The mold has a little sharper nose and little less bead and has a flatter profile in general. I can throw mine a good 30-40' further than a champ. Aviar, mostly because the Qmega is a bit faster and glides longer and straighter. I don't have any problems flipping my Qmega either.



Thanks to everyone who offered advice. The Millenium QMS (champion plastic) and Aurora MS (pro plastic) have become my go-to midrange and is just the disc i was looking for. They seem to be underappreciated, as not many people i know are very familiar with them. Thanks Dave for all the great discs you have created. Now, all i have to do is learn how to throw them ... :D

have you noticed the ms has a sharp edge flash to it? i didn't recall them having that, but i was checking one out last weekend and it seemed kind of sharp. i like more of a bead.

william, I have not seen an Orange JK. Couldn't have been many of them. :confused:

Dave the East coast warehouse had a number of orange 4X JK Aviars. It is trully a beautiful disc in both appearance and function. They seem to be a little bit softer than the other colors.

Plank if you need more let me know as I still have a couple of dozen left.

Rick - you a PM.

Hi Dave,
My new Orions have G4 written on the bottom with the weight. Is this cryptic? It might be a trivia quetion one day.
Thanks,
Axis

All Orions are marked G4, but what does it mean, "�Generation 4" or..... :cool:

mf100, it did stand for generation 4, at least the 4 did. I don't remember if there was any significance to g other than as a letter.

Dave, is the Orion the TLS that you were talking about last year?

dave I have a starfire CFR from the 2003 ST patricks classic the abbreviations on the back are SX 167g do you know what run this might be?

it_, no the TLS is on a TL platform. The Orion is on a Sidewinder platform.

Vandal, that sounds like the proto run of the newer (x type) Starfires. This is not to be confused with Starfire L.

interesting. i only threw an orion once so far, but i thought it was much more stable than a sidewinder. how would you say the numbers compare, dave?

Dr Evil, the numbers don't really compare. Other discs on that platform are the Firebird, Valkyrie, Viking, Dragon, and Archangel. The closest disc is probably the Viking, but the Orion has more carry.

The Orion is on a Sidewinder platform.





Other discs on that platform are the Firebird, Valkyrie, Viking, Dragon, and Archangel. The closest disc is probably the Viking, but the Orion has more carry.




Dave,

What's a platform? :confused: A Firebird and an Archangel are at different ends of your stability range, so I'm lost here.

Thanks.

hawk. i think he's referring to the mold or lip/plate of those discs.. the valkyrie,firebird,and Viking I know are part of the same family of drivers.. They are all 9 speed rated and have the same lip i've been told.
That's probably what he's referring too..
Kindof like the beast,orc,starfire are all 10 speed rated and all have huge rims.

-Scott LEwis

That's a new one to me, too...how many different platforms in the Innova GD stable? :o

Hi Dave,

Has the Hydra mold been tweaked recently? I picked up a replacement yesterday. Could be my imagination, but the bottom of the rim feels more rounded than I remember.

Thanks, as always.

Hi Dave, I have a question about a disc. Its a "choice of champions" stamped driver. It feels alot like a Cheetah or Gazelle. Were these both or either done in special edition plastic with this stamp? Do you know how many were done? Thanks you Sir.

DGday, if Mark was talking about the particular color, it is definitely rare. If he was talking about any colored FL, it is not as rare, but still rare. Most everything Mark sells is rare to some degree or another, or hard to find.



Dave, is Mark / DiscGolfValues.com (http://www.discgolfvalues.com) located close to Innova West?

Dave,

Any plans on running the Eagle in the pro plastic?? I have a couple KC Pro Eagles which I love so much, cause they are so grippy and faster than Champion Eagles. Thanks much!

ChrisEBear

Hawk, basically it is rim width.

greatsky, that is correct.

fore, that is probably a molding variation. The Hydras are particularly susceptible to that. Sometimes there is more of a concavity to the bevel than other times.

Chase, it is most likely a Cheetah variant. If it was a Gazelle, you could tell by the wall of the inner rim having a bead. It might be a Cheetah 2. Don't know the number made, but it wasn't a lot.

robj, it is relatively close. 40 miles south in Anaheim. But DGV is an internet business that can ship from anywhere. Mark owns and operates DGV, but he also works here part time, and for Hero Discs of Japan.