chase, we may do that in the future. Right now we are limited in what we can do with special blend. In your reference to "full color", I am not sure what you mean. But if you mean INNColor, or the full color process of DX, no. These will be hotstamped.

Choke artist, yes SB will be run again for USDGC Rocs. Orcs have already been run and will be available shortly through the Am Worlds committee in Oklahoma. Other models will come available as we can produce them.

Dave, will it be the ontario or rancho mold for the SBs?

: ) :

Friar, it will be same as last time. The mold will say Rancho, but it will be Ontario type.

sweet

thanks

: ) :

Outstanding! Those SB rocs are priceless. Way to recognize a great disc when you make it. I had heard rumors that there would not be SB USDGC rocs again, but obviously they were not true. Thanks for the info! Now, a special blend for the standard mold would be great too. I really liked both the SBs and the standards. They each serve there purpose (although slightly diferent purposes) well. Keep up the great work!

Dave, an Eldo legend is John Ahart still owns the front-9 baskets here, and that SoCal owns the back-9. But that was contradicted today; I heard it was actually "City of Long Beach" front and "Dave Dunipace" back...could you possibly put the record straight?!? :p

steve, I know that we owned them originally. We donated the front nine, and the back was on consignment. I don't know the current status, but Tim might.

Thanks; perhaps I can ask this weekend. :)

Any chance that a decent number of those SB rocs this year could be run in lower weights, such as the low 170's?

Sharky, guessing what "decent" means is the problem. The large demand for Rocs is always heavy. There is a certain amount of demand for low and mid 70s, but exactly what that number is, is tough to estimate. It is always safer for us to make too few, than too many. That being said, we will make "some".

OK, thanks and the chart last year showing how many and at what weights was informative. I know that many like max weight but there are a lot of us that do not. Decent amount to me means I will be able to get one before they are all snapped up and I will be ordering mine the day they come out. Thanks!

Dave, Is there ANY way I can order 10 Aviars (P&A) in WHITE straight from you guys with the small star stamp??? PLEASE????

Thanks in advance whatever your response. :)

i've done something simalar before...

call Innova East i think there number is on the www.innovadiscgolf.com (http://www.innovadiscgolf.com) website.

They should be able to help you (this was two years ago).

Ill4mation, not from us. Sorry. The Star stamp is usually reserved for limited runs and initial runs.

Hey dave is the Wriath CFR going to be available to other events??? so maybe I can get a couple up here in Canada???

thanks :)

jaymo, indirectly I believe. The event can sell them for the World's and I believe make a few bucks, but they cannot be the primary. That is exclusive to the World's for now.

thanks Dave

?
about the inncolor discs again, don't they have a plastic coat shrink rapped on the disc. i just heard from a player saying the plastic or whatever is peeling off. in that case

F. All discs used in play, except mini marker discs, must be uniquely marked in ink or pigment-based marking which has no detectable thickness.

is this wrong?

1ab

Dave will the Worlds CFR Wraith be available for local Innova Retellers to sell like the Worlds Super Roc was?

I see...

Is there ANY way I can order 10 WHITE P&A Aviars with the "bar" stamp? PLEASE???

Thanks in advance and sorry if Im annoying. :)

One armed boxer, like hotstamps the image will degrade over time with heavy use, however there may be a problem with the particular disc. You should direct this question toward Sam Ferrans at innovadiscs.com You are correct about the marking too. These images have a thickness, but it is not considered detectable as the surface is smooth, same witha marker.

Erron, yes I believe the CFR Wraith will be done the same way.

ill4mation, try zonedriven.

Dave, Is the starfire going to be produced in champion plastic other than for CFR, and if so are you guys going to run any starfire "L"'s?

We are going to run both Starfires and Starfire Ls in candy and they will both remain on the candy fundraiser list. The price will drop however to $15.99 MSRP which should make them more accessible to more people.

that's great, i have really started liking the Starfire-X. i also think that the increased sales generated by lowering the price of CFR's may actually increase the amount of funds raised to boost tournament payouts even if less $ is raised per disc sold...

did you ever consider giving say 25 cents of every sold champion disc to tournaments? it may sound a bit ridiculous given economic norms, but your cfr program flies in the face of cut-throat capitalism too (so i figured i'd ask).

or maybe you could make a deal with all disc manufacturers to do such a thing (although i think the politics of cooperating might make that a challenge...)

Innova Rocs

A fine decision to lower the cfr prices. I bought some before despite the price but now I will buy even more. Many people who previously did not buy cfr discs will likely change their ways. I have heard many people say that certain discs were great discs but they would not pay $25 for them.

Dave, after becoming slightly more enlightened about tax complexities -- i can see why my above suggestion isn't practical (not to mention the difficulty of determining which tournaments to support without creating bad feelings elsewhere).

The new approach to the CFR program should make an already great program even better since sales should increase quite a bit with the more universally accessible prices...

We are going to run both Starfires and Starfire Ls in candy and they will both remain on the candy fundraiser list. The price will drop however to $15.99 MSRP which should make them more accessible to more people.





Hi Dave. Is this for all CFR or just a select few?

Hey dave,
I just wanted to state that on your Innova Team Page you have Steve Brinster's Hometown as New Milford, NJ.. It is actually West Milford, NJ as I am from there.. On his Bio page you have it correct though.

Just something that has been bugging me for over a year now. Figured i'd tell ya :)..

-Scott Lewis

P.s. Any chance of Running Champion Teebirds in Special Blend plastic???

P.s. Any chance of Running Champion Teebirds in Special Blend plastic???



Yes Please!

chase, there will be more CFRs, but mostly candy glow that works best for INNColor.

Scott, thanks for the info. We have already run a few white SB TeeBirds, that Steve Wisecup will be testing this week.

Chase, sorry, I read your question incorrectily. Yes, we are changing the MSRP for all regular candy hotstamped CFRs to $15.99. SB Candy would be the same. Glow might be more. INNColor will be still around the $25.00 price.

Dave , has there been any testing on the special blend orc? what similarities are there between the sb and NS orcs etc. Any insight will be much appreciated. thanks, esalazar #21173

I still have 2 NIghtshfit ORCS.. baby blue 174.. PM ME

-Scott Lewis

Btw. Can't wait to try the SB orcs and hopefully get a few SB teebirds..

esalazar. the "night shift" Orcs and the SB Orcs are made the same. We tested a few, and they seemed to be what we wanted.

Hey Dave thought about running some SB Firebirds in the FX mold at all??

Love the cfr Starfire-L and the Pro Wraith!! Keep up the Excellent work!!

Hate to keep asking the same kind of question but, by all regular stamped candy cfr and special blends will be the new lower msrp, do you mean that the USDGC rocs will be cheaper this year? Please say yes. Even if its not true, just lie to me.

Don't you think your pushing it alittle too far there? The USDGC Roc are what brings the $$ to this event of events. This is probably one of the main reasons why it has grown each year. I could see them lowing it maybe say $5. We'll see.

I would still buy more USDGC rocs even if they were 25 bucks like in previous years and I wouldnt have a problem with it. But I would buy them in greater numbers if they were cheaper. I can dream can't I?

Yes we can..... hehe

Hi Dave,
there was a run of "Apples" in golf weights, can you remember how many, which weights and when?

Choke, the USDGC Roc program remains the same as last year.

mf100, no I don't remember the last run. Generally, when we ran Apples, we ran 160 ish for WFDF events, and close to 200 gms for golf. Probably more than 3 years ago. The mold is in poor shape.

Hey Dave,Do you have an Idea on the run numbers for the SB Orc and the new CFR Worlds Wraith? Im also glad your keeping the USDGC program the same.This is a world class event and the discs are well worth the money.

CE, the initial runs were 2006 for the SB Orc and a little less for the Champion Wraith. Only 500 SB Orcs have been released so far. The full amount of Wraiths has been released for sale. Tulsa will send art for the next 500 Orcs when they're ready for them.

And we shold be getting that(artwork) to you guys next week after we get back from Vegas.

There will be 2006 total sb orcs and they will be released 500 at a time!! Is this correct? how many different stamps will be available? I already bought 20 , just trying to figure out how many I will buy total!! thanx as always!! :D

esalazar, the Tulsa guys are going to determine how many stamps there will be ultimately. And, how many discs will be available too. For now, I believe they are thinking 500 of each stamp.

Dave:

Did you ever play Ultimate, or were you a golf man from the start?

Erik Wilson

YEA DAVE, SB TEEBIRDS!!!!!!
Also, how do SB orcs compare stability wise to champ orcs?

dsproaviar, I don't know if they are any different stability wise. Some pros have said they are a little more stable. For me, it was the grip. Grippier is better for me, and these are better.

little_erik, I did play Ultimate at the same time. Totally different crowd. Totally different mind set.

Dave, I was wondering how you rate the new light wt candy plastic in terms of durablity? Also, is the specific gravity (also called specific density) less than 1? If it is, it will float on water. Look, a floating 160gm Wraith!

Actually it would have to be less than .998g/cm^3 at 20 degrees celsius. :D:D

Actually it would have to be less than .998g/cm^3 at 20 degrees celsius. :D:D



Look'ee here...kid thinks he learned something this summer! :o:D

Actually I learned that like three years ago

it can weigh 500gor more @ 0�c and not sink

ce /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Actually it would have to be less than .998g/cm^3 at 20 degrees celsius. :D:D



wouldn't that depend on the density of the water as well!! some of these nasty creeks stagnant ponds etc. seem a bit more dense than typical water!! :D

Roc Steady, the lightweight candy seems as durable as the heavy stuff. However, the lighter the disc, the more damage will appear to affect throws, especially into the wind, or off axis. None of the candy plastic will float in water. The density is greater than 1.0. The Wraith is made with our lightest candy plastic.

Or exactly 1 @ 4�C. And I knew that over 20 years ago! (Back when Scooter was teaching the other sperm how to throw!) I wish I couldve played with you on Tobaggon that saturday before the Championship, Scooter, but you were MIA. Still pretty cool to see Millz in action, tho.

Too bad thier is not an easy way to uniformly mold air boubles in the rim. Hmmm, maybe some solid foaming agent that will outgas when the hot plastic surounds it, There is also many polymers that can be shot in foam form (I suspect Quarter K is), but durability could be an issue unless you did a two stage shoot over with solid TPU or something. What a nightmare to dial in that process! Yeah, Ill pay $98.95 for 1 disc. Come to think of it, if It was durable and added bunches to my Distance (looks over shoulder to see if wife is looking), I would pay it!!

Better yet I would pay 98.95 if the disc was custom molded to my hands dimensions. I think I have dimentia :D

Dave, I dont know if you have answered this already but, will there be a DX Coyote?

ARGH! So there will be no 150gm Wraiths EVER?! I believe that having such a high volume in the rim would stabilize this thing just enough to do hyser flips for INSANE D! I'm already getting great results with my 170gm. Sorry, Japan, no Wraiths for you! Thanks once again, Dave and sorry about the rant.

Not sure if this has been asked, or if this is the proper place...I heard there is going to be a new version of ript coming out? I was about to buy a deck of the regulars and then heard about the new ones, so should I wait?

I can't wait for the SB Teebirds!!!

I think PikNik really can't wait for the SB Teebirds. :D

And a new version of Ript? Figures. I just bought it. (haven't played it yet, my friends are all losers & are afraid of it)

Question for Innova, I bought my friend a red Wraith. Why are your reds so pinkish in color? They need to be darker red .02

And bring back the Moray :D Love that disc.

Dave,
Can you give us a preview of what discs YOU want to make in SB? I love my SB Roc and I ordered some SB Orcs. My core discs are T-birds, Rocs, Coyotes, and Firebirds. If you made all of those SB, that would be swell. Also, thanks for the CFR Wraith, can't wait til I get it today. Oh I almost forgot, PLEASE MAKE CFR or SB Stingray. You only have to make 1 since I think I am the only one who throws them. Do you do special orders?
I haven't heard anything about the roadrunner in a long time, what's up with it?

Thanks for your time.

Scweb, I am definitely thinking about it. Did a test, and although they start out overstable, they will wear in to a flipper for the woods. I will do more testing to see how they wear.

Roc Steady, I have already started a new disc that may produce a disc similar to what you are looking for. Or least a lot lighter than we have previously made. It will take a couple of months to get to the point of deciding whether it is a go or not. So, if it works, 155 gm Wraith-like discs in candy will be possible

Sorry, I don't know anything about ript. You might try the East Coast guys.

Dave,
Can you give us a preview of what discs YOU want to make in SB? I love my SB Roc and I ordered some SB Orcs. My core discs are T-birds, Rocs, Coyotes, and Firebirds. If you made all of those SB, that would be swell. Also, thanks for the CFR Wraith, can't wait til I get it today. Oh I almost forgot, PLEASE MAKE CFR or SB Stingray. You only have to make 1 since I think I am the only one who throws them. Do you do special orders?
I haven't heard anything about the roadrunner in a long time, what's up with it?

Thanks for your time.



An SB Beast would be a great addition to my bag. Pretty please, Dave?

Dave,

Will you be running the SB plastic in Firebird FX & FL molds?

Hamm

accidental roller, the Road Runner is coming out at the USDGC I believe. As for the SB discs: eventually I want to do most everything. Most pressing would be the TeeBird and Wraith. All of our candy discs would benefit from SB I believe. For grip if nothing else. I tried one of the USDGC SB Rocs in white, and a TeeBird in SB white. I liked the feel and flight of both. I tried a TeeBird in SB black. I didn't like it as well as the plasic felt softer. In cold weather however, it would probably be real good. The reception of the SB Orcs will tell me how desireable SB is going to be. Just because I like it, doesn't mean that much.

Dave,

Trust me the word on the street is the SB is very similar to old CE type plastic. That is a positive; which would be even greater if the majority of the molds were run in the new SB.

Hamm

Well Dave,
Looks like I like what you like, with the exception of the viking. Keep up the great job. I like SB better than Candy anyday. I'm glad to hear you want to make them all SB. Us new commers never had the chance to get that awesome CE plastic. For me, SB is the next best thing.
Just an idealistic question but, it seems to me that Innova has a disc for almost every concievable shot. The push lately is for distance drivers. What happens when you guys make every disc there is to make?

Thanks.

What happens when you guys make every disc there is to make?





this will never happen....

I want to see a max distance driver that doesn't turn over at all and doesn't hyzer at all at the end of its flight. That is when you can stop making new discs, at least drivers!

haha

What happens when you guys make every disc there is to make?





this will never happen....






Why not? It seems every month there is a new driver that goes farther or flies better than the last. If it isnt a "new" driver than its just a "new" plastic. How much farther can it really go before discs start turning into the Epic?

I want to see a max distance driver that doesn't turn over at all and doesn't hyzer at all at the end of its flight.



That's easy, just throw the disc with no spin!

Or do like you do. It doesn't hyser and it doesn't flip but it does.............................................. ....sink like a roc.

To the bottom of Northshore. :D

Come on 3-putt, let's keep my game out of this thread. Like I told you, I don't play for trophies, I play for Ace Pots. :p

and how many of those have you hit? :D

Northshore, 0 acepots, 2 aces
Paul B Johnson, 1 acepot, 2 aces
Lake Sehoy, 1 acepot, 1 ace
Shepard State Park, 1 acepot, 2 aces
Its only a matter of time.

and all of that totals to how much $$$$?


I have only hit three pots but they total around $900

Dave, #1, which Teebird mold will the SB be run in? I vote for the CA. mold. #2, is the SB roc staying CFR, or will it be a regular run now? #3, how about running some SB in the KC Aviar mold?

we should continue this conversation elsewhere, this is a good thread . Check your pm

Why not? It seems every month there is a new driver that goes farther or flies better than the last. If it isnt a "new" driver than its just a "new" plastic. How much farther can it really go before discs start turning into the Epic?




I agree. It seems like ever week or two there is a new driver that is FASTER and FARTHER then anything you have ever seen. WHO CARES. As of right now I dont think my bag will ever change unless something comes out that goes 50-100 ft further then what I already have.

All these new discs are just so they can sell more discs. They really arent making anything they dont already have. They are just tweaking what they have and selling it again :D

They really arent making anything they dont already have. They are just tweaking what they have and selling it again :D



Sounds like the automotive industry.

DSProAviar, 1. either, but the ones I have are CA. #2 SB Roc stays with the USDGC. #3. Good idea.

DSProAviar, 1. either, but the ones I have are CA. #2 SB Roc stays with the USDGC. #3. Good idea.



Heck I would even like to feel a SB Big Bead :D

is posting what Discraft discs you carry on *the* Innova thread ignorant, tasteless, or just pimp being pimp?

You know what I wasnt even paying attention to what thread it was when I posted that. I am as we speak going back and editing that post. :eek:

It isn't ignorant if he is just comparing the two and thinking of trying out an innova disc. :o:o

Pimpin has a point; they do need to sell discs just like its competitors do also. You think Innova is the only one coming out with new plastic? Ha-ha.


Let's keep this thread on track people.

it's kind of funny that guys throwing the #2 or #3 disc golf company's plastic are always talking about Innova or crashing Innova threads :D

I'm not bashing Innova or anything so why is it that you make me out to be a bad guy? I used to throw innova too and i still would love to throw a DX beast but oh well.

rob,

Scooters threads wasn't bad. It was Pimpin's who he tried to cover up as a mistake post ya right.....

rob I'm a wisconsin fella so we here the Innova crap all the time.

I was doing something else at work while posting that and seriously didnt even realize or I would have left it up there.

They have the best pros and the reason everyone comes on here at crashes Innova stuff is because those guys are out on tour bashing everyone else discs and trying to get everyone to throw Innova.

I think Innova makes great discs I just choose to throw Discraft. The Aviar Firebird Roc Eagle Teebird and Orc are SWEET discs I just dont throw them.

Then again I feel that if I switched back to innova i would not get any better. If you use Innova, Discraft, or gateway you can shoot the same as long as you learn your discs. innova just does a lot of marketing and they produce a lot of molds in short times meaning everyone will go out and buy the new thing maybe three times a month. If you buy Discraft's newest thing you will buy a new disc every month or two and for gateway every few months. IMO making too many mold too quickly clutters the market and makes a discs life too short.

Ayyo Innova...
...when y'alls gonna re-press Cheetahs in a worthwhile plastic?
The DX plastic Cheetahs are a waste of my money...

The reason I'm not a fan of Innova is the attitude of the sponsored players I've met--with the exception of Climo , Schweb, and Feldberg-who are the nicest guys on the team. I'm talking about lower tiered sponsored players who are total cucks. The Gateway, and Discraft pros <font color="red">and ams (scooter) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font> that I've met have all been super helpful.

If you haven't had the opportunity to try a SB disc you don't know what your missing.

I absolutely love my SB Roc. The grip and durability are 2nd to none through rain, snow and heat.

I would love to see SB Teebirds and SB TL's.

Dave, I guarantee you couldn't make them fast enough.

PT Woods
# 20431

What about AMs? :D:D:D

dont let a couple people with bad attitudes ruin it for the rest of em. plus that shouldnt be any reason to not want to throw their plastic. there are plenty of super nice people sponsered by innova.

I'm not bashing Innova or anything so why is it that you make me out to be a bad guy? I used to throw innova too and i still would love to throw a DX beast but oh well.



how was i making you out to be a bad guy? all i said was i find it funny that guys who are throwing plastic from other brands always seem to be talking about Innova (see the Wraith or Coyote threads for example).

fortunately, i think Dave has a pair of hip waders he puts on when reading these posts... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The reason I'm not a fan of Innova is the attitude of the sponsored players I've met--with the exception of Climo , Schweb, and Feldberg-who are the nicest guys on the team. I'm talking about lower tiered sponsored players who are total cucks. The Gateway, and Discraft pros <font color="red">and ams (scooter) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font> that I've met have all been super helpful.



Just like to state that Aleksey Bubis, sponsered player for this year, is anything but a "total [I'm a potty-mouth!]." He has really helped me with my game, played rounds in the middle of the winter when no one else would play, and hooked me up with all sorts of plastic.

I have heard nothing but great things about Bubis. I'm talking about SoCal guys more than anything.

Dave,


Will you be running the SB plastic in putter molds also?

Hamm

widiscgolf, yes, I have already tried that, and liked it.

Glad to see we are back on subject, lets stay there.

I'm not familiar with the SB plastic. What are examples that are already commonly out there? Or is this something new?

-E

I have heard nothing but great things about Bubis. I'm talking about SoCal guys more than anything.


Name names or go away. Dave should hear the "word on the street" about the team members.

i havent seen anything in the SB plastic either.
does it come to MI last?

Good to hear Dave!! By chance you tried Big Beads in SB? Were they pretty stable?

SB sounds like it will be a great plastic.

Dave, I think what you did with changing the price of the CFR program was very noble.

I am not sure if this has been asked or answered, so I am asking anyway. How does the new SB plastic fit in stability wise compared to Champ, DX, and Pro? Also, how does the glide compare?

I understand the durability is between Pro and Champ with the durability close to Champ plastic. Right?

Erik K, there really hasn't been much. Orcs were really the only thing out there, other than a few here and there.

I have heard nothing but great things about Bubis. I'm talking about SoCal guys more than anything.


Name names or go away. Dave should hear the "word on the street" about the team members.



I made a broad statement that needs no naming-of-names...Start a witch hunt somewhere else. Its my opinion, not an accusation.

Eric K and OTHERS curious about Special Blend Plastic:

It doesn't fit between DX, PRO , or Champion.
IT is better than Champion Plastic.

IT is very grippy(NOT LIKE PRO) and IT is durable and stable like Champion.

Get your hands on a SB ORC from TwistedFLyer.com to see for yourself.

-Scott Lewis


DAVE- I owned at one point about 5 SB rocs, but I sold them away without throwing them. I also have 2 NS orcs and am recieving a SB ORC.. MY Question to you is:
Does Special Blend Plastic Get grippier when DIrty and worn like the NIghtshift orcs do?? I Talked with Ed WIlliams from the East Factory and he let me see his used NS orcs. THey were tacky like glue.

I have heard nothing but great things about Bubis. I'm talking about SoCal guys more than anything.


Name names or go away. Dave should hear the "word on the street" about the team members.



I made a broad statement that needs no naming-of-names...Start a witch hunt somewhere else. Its my opinion, not an accusation.



Hey Vincent , get off this thread , you INNOVA hater. :mad:

Scott, I wouldn't make a blanket statement, but for many throwers, they do get tackier with use. I think it depends on the oils and moisture in your hands.

Scott, I wouldn't make a blanket statement, but for many throwers, they do get tackier with use. I think it depends on the oils and moisture in your hands.



Dave, so if i put a little super glue in my cheerios every morning, eventually my plastic will get stickier?? :D:D

Probably not, Mr. Toad, but you won't have to worry about wear and tear on your teeth for a few days. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

so the CFRs and the SBs are produced to benefit- raise money- for tourneys as I understand it...
I'm sure you're busy enough but wondered if a mold could be released where X amount of the cash went to hurricane relief, it would get more product out that people seem to want while contributing ever so slightly to the effort....
with the cycle going the way it has been, this could become an annual fundraising event....

Hi dave!!!
Say, how's the R&D on my CFR Ram coming? I found about a dozen at everythingdiscgolf.com and I think the supply is running short. Am I going to have to break into my secret stash of dx or start throwing the 150's I've collected or are you planning on a revival run of rams for us o'skool huckers?

troof, I am not sure if the CFR Ram is ever going to happen at this point, but we will try to run some more DX over the winter. It will not be in regular stock if it happens. Outlets like zonedriven and discgolfvalues would have them.

How about a a SB GREMLIN, those would be sweet

Eric, good idea.

troof, I am not sure if the CFR Ram is ever going to happen at this point, but we will try to run some more DX over the winter. It will not be in regular stock if it happens. Outlets like zonedriven and discgolfvalues would have them.




Dave,
If you could do this for us ram huckers, I will need you to pm me your mailing address 'cause I'm putting you on my christmas card list...and trust me, you _want_ to be on my xmas card list! ;)
Thanks for all you do, Dave! We all really appreciate it!

troof,

Look for CFR Vipers. They had them available a couple of years ago, and they are all the Candy RAM that anyone would ever need. I tried to buy them all, but they just don't wear out. :) There should be plenty around somewhere if you look.

Are SB discs as durable as Champion plastic? Do they get more niks and scrapes or are they about the same as Champ?

Brain,
Although I've never thrown a SB disc(I own 6 SB discs) They aren 't suposed to wear more than Champion.. It's like Having a champion disc with Super Tackiness... They do feel a little less stiff, but not soft like they will chip or knick. I"d expect them to hold up just as well as champion.

Can't wait for the SB Teebirds.. I want to pick up a bunch of them. I might even have to trade some of my 11x's just have some money for these babies ;)

-Scott Lewis

troof,

Look for CFR Vipers... they are all the Candy RAM that anyone would ever need. I tried to buy them all, but they just don't wear out.



SoCal-
What were they like once they broke-in? I've got a cfr viper and cfr whippet and they are more piggish than the ram, but you know that champ plastic...
Should I put it in the dryer for a while or run over it with my vw for a while until it breaks-in?

Dave I appologize if this has been answered before. I purchased a Pro Line Firebird (FL on the bottom), liked it and wanted another, ordered on line and received one marked "FB". What is the differance, and are the FL's still in production?

Thank you.

I know its a little early to be asking, but here goes anyway. Will next years USDGC rocs (excluding spectator) be sold in the same way they were sold last year? Im sure someone already sugguested it and Im sure theres a good reason not to do it, but why can't they do preorders. If you offered preorders with enough advance notice, you could get a good Idea of what kind, what wieght, and how much of each disc will be needed. Is it just me or does that mad scramble the second the discs go up for sale seem a little crazy. The site can never handle the inevitable traffic from everyone trying to get what they want before its gone. This is not to say that they have done a bad job. I think last year was much smoother than the year before, but despite that, I had to call on the phone like 20 times because the website was totally bogged down. It was a really nice system they had set up with each disc and wieght and color were listed for sale individually, but It wasnt much good if you couldnt get through

I love the USDGC rocs. Particularly the special blends.

thanks

Dave,

What is it about a disc that makes it break right. I'm a RHBH thrower and of my 21 discs only my old beatup Raven will do this reliably for me every throw (awsome roller too - once it hits ground).

I hope that's not too broad a question but I was just wondering what it is that makes a particular disc hold an anhyzer so well while most of them naturally fade left.

Thanks,

JA

J_A_B, all of the Pro Firebirds we ran in the last run were FLs and they are still in production. The FLs are straighter flying than the regular FBs, which are more overstable. The FB could have been mismarked. If the beveled edge is the same in both, they are the same. If one edge is more concave than the other, it is FB.

Jonny, it basically comes down to how well a disc can hold its flight attitude. If the nose starts going up, as is normal for most discs when they slow down, the disc will bank left. Speed is a big factor for holding attitude as the discs were designed to fly straight at higher speed rather than low. How you wear your disc in can also affect how well the disc flies at low speed. Generally, domey discs fly straighter at low speeds than flat discs, which tend to dive left.

dave,

i'll bet this has been discussed before, but i can't search the 115 thread pages to find out.
i've noticed some champion discs are clearer... while others are more opaque. i've read before the clearer ones are softer and gummier. are they also less stable than the opaque looking ones?

btw: the discs you've come out with in the last year or so have all been awsome... pro starfire, sidewinder, pro wraith, and the coyote!! i REALLY like the champion gators too, a truly original disc that comes in handy all the time on my short technical home course.

OMG ... no kidding ... the Champion Gator is an awesome disc.
I played two rounds at CMC Glenwood Springs yesterday, in high gusty Colorado wind. The Gater, Wraith, Orc and Monster were saving my @ss. Dang it was windy!
However, Thank God I live in a no-epic zone. My heart goes out to everyone in LA, MS, TX, etc who have had to brave the winds of those hurricanes. Everytime I think about how great it is here in CO, I say a prayer for those who are suffering so much.
I think a hurricane releif SB disc is in order!!! Hell, charge $30 bucks for it, I'll buy a bunch. ;)

dave,

i'll bet this has been discussed before, but i can't search the 115 thread pages to find out.
i've noticed some champion discs are clearer... while others are more opaque. i've read before the clearer ones are softer and gummier. are they also less stable than the opaque looking ones?

btw: the discs you've come out with in the last year or so have all been awsome... pro starfire, sidewinder, pro wraith, and the coyote!! i REALLY like the champion gators too, a truly original disc that comes in handy all the time on my short technical home course.



In my experience the clearer ones have been harder and more overstable. At least that is the case with Orcs.

Clearer Plastic as said by Dave is usualy more overstable than Pearly Plastic..

The pearlescent material is a weight agent just for eveyrone's information.

A clear 175 teebird will probably be more stable than a pearlescent one although I"m sure I wouldn't notice the difference.

-Scott Lewis

sychrosystems, clear and opaque are separate from soft and gummy. We can make gummy clear or stiff clear and opaque in both also.
Generally the gummy discs are not as stable as the stiffer plastic. The pearlescent look comes from the gummy plastic when mixed with the heavier candy. The opacity comes from a weighting agent or an opaque color additive.

Clearer Plastic as said by Dave is usualy more overstable than Pearly Plastic..

The pearlescent material is a weight agent just for eveyrone's information.

A clear 175 teebird will probably be more stable than a pearlescent one although I"m sure I wouldn't notice the difference.

-Scott Lewis




I disagree. Ive always looked for the most clear versions as they will flex earlier. So that makes them less stable than the Pearls. It has been the way with Pro Line Beasts, Vikings, Orcs, Teebirds and even Champion Gators. IMO.

I got two red (PINK) CFR's today from zonedriven. I have two things to say about them.
1. They both have bubbles in the rims. One has 4, the other 3.
2. They are labeled 169g.
I'm not concerned about the bubbles, or the weight, I'm gonna throw them ... However, I don't understand why these premium price CFR discs have bubbles in them, which should make them X-outs (which should make them less expensive) are selling for [the new] full CFR price.
Does this mean that Innova has reduced thier quality control for CFR discs, along with the price? If I had been ordering these to add to a collection, I would be [I'm a potty-mouth!] on receiving two less than 1st quality discs!

Boneman, you can always exchange or return them if you are not satisfied. We have been having bubbles in the rim on and off for the entire run. Small bubbles were passed, and larger bubbles should have been Xed out. Possibly both of your discs should have been Xed. Talk to Zonedriven, they will make it right for you.

I have a friend who had the same problems with the two he received from ZoneDriven. Both were 169g and both had good sized bubbles in the rim (he had ordered them in the 170s).
Dave maybe you could settle a disagreement we had. I thought the bubbles might explain the lower weights since i haven't heard of many Wraiths being available below 170g. How much would a pea-sized bubble in the rim subtract from the weight?

Dave, thanks for the reply ... and I have no hard feelings. Since I bought these to throw, and the bubbles are small and IN the rim, they will not affect the flight of the disc. AND, I want to throw these babies NOW ... I can hardly stand sitting here at my desk at work looking at them! LOL
Was just curious to know if this was the norm, or something isolated to this run, and if I could exchange them had I purchased for a collection. Thanks for clearing this up.
BTW, I'm really looking forward to using the Wraith in CFR pastic. My Pro Wraith has been just awesome in the fall wind we have been getting here in Colorado. I parked a couple of holes yesterday with the Wraith ... then threw several other "wind" discs ... not even close to the control I could get with the Wraith.

One question. The only non-Innova disc in my bag right now is the Storm. I can't seem to find anything that will replace it, or compare to it. Given I live in the mountains and don't have easy access to a high-quality disc retailer, do you have any suggestions for an Innova disc that will perform like the Z Storm? I guess the closest thing I have found is a very broken in 1st run CE T-Bird that I throw. Man ... what a sweet disc it is. I've tried various Rocs, but can't seem to get them to fly as easily, or as far as the Storm (and the Storm handles wind pretty good).

Dave,
Will the Cheetahs be available in a non-DX plastic any time in the foreseeable future?

robj, the bubbles don't add up to much. Several might add up to a gram.

Boneman, I can't compare a broken CE Teebird to a Z-Storm as I don't know what it is. But you might try a CFR TeeBird L. It flies most like a broken in Ch TeeBird. I believe you can get X-parts from discgolfvalues mail order.

Dutty, the Cheetahs are only DX in regular stock, but we will run Champion in limited edition from time to time.

Boneman, my Champion Wraith - 06 Pro Worlds CFR discs came in a similar condition, with entrained black specks and air bubbles. Mark, the Innova rep replied to an e-mail inquiry with the following:


Jeff,

I apologize for this disc being released to you. We had pulled all of those discs to be marked as "X-Outs". Unfortunately, in the rush to get the discs out the door a few of the "bad" ones must have slipped through the cracks. The flecks and air bubbles will not affect the disc's flight in any manner, they just do not look as good. I believe that your situation is already being remedied by Zonedriven. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience of receiving a disc that you should not have.



Zonedriven Sports responded to my inquiry and is getting some new Champion Wraith - 06 Pro Worlds CFR discs out to me ASAP. Kudos on their exceptional customer service.

As to your inquiry about price, it's my understanding that the 06 Pro Worlds CFR Fundraiser price for the Champion Wraith has been dropped from the previous $20-$25 level to the new price of $15.99 merely in an effort to increase sales, and has nothing to do with the less-than-full quality discs that were delivered to us erroneously, as previously described.

In other words, Innova reduced the price to increase fundraiser profits, not because they have reduced their quality control. It was just a small coincidence that we received X-outs by mistake at the same time.

Hey Dave is there a way i can get a discount if i get like 6 kc pro aviars because im looknig to get some but trying to get them cheap

looknig to get some but trying to get them cheap



:D

One question. The only non-Innova disc in my bag right now is the Storm. I can't seem to find anything that will replace it, or compare to it. Given I live in the mountains and don't have easy access to a high-quality disc retailer, do you have any suggestions for an Innova disc that will perform like the Z Storm?



I found the QMS replaced my Z Storm favorably. I use the QMS mainly as a midrange or short driver for straight shots... Millenium makes the QMS and Innova makes Millenium's discs. Also, the feel is different but have you tried the Coyote?

Hey Dave, have you ever considered letting DiscGolfValues.com sell half of the USDGC Rocs instead of making them exclusively available through ZoneDriven?

Ooh ooh ooh.

I "NEED" a pumpkin stamped disc.

Can we get any more info on this? The website only says to call Innova East.

OldTyme,
Dealers can put in orders for any custom stampable plastic including pro and champion (except CFR models). There will probably be a bunch of discs stamped for sale on Zonedriven. We should have Aviars and Rocs, as well as champion orcs, sidewinders, coyotes. We may also have Pro Starfires and Wraiths.

BTW, this is the 9th year of the Pumpkin disc. Who has all of the previous stamps?

Thanks Matt. I'll be keeping an eye out.....

One question. The only non-Innova disc in my bag right now is the Storm. I can't seem to find anything that will replace it, or compare to it. Given I live in the mountains and don't have easy access to a high-quality disc retailer, do you have any suggestions for an Innova disc that will perform like the Z Storm?



Hey Boneman, howz the West slope? I too used to to have the Storm as my only "non- Innova" disc, just because I loved it so much. After losing my favorite one, I tried a few various Innova mid-range discs in hopes of replacing it. I found it! It is the new Pro Cobra (not Champion - too floppy). It has the same "low profile" feel and is even grippier. Flies even better, speed and stability wise, and I have come to trust it completely. Give it a try. If I see you at Colorado States, I've got a few of them, you could try one.

Mark Step

justin, that's a question to ask your retailer. Sometimes you can get x-outs cheap. zonedriven in the east and discgolfvalues in the west carry x-outs

robj, Zonedriven handles all the usdgc related stuff including the Rocs. All of the hotstamping happens on the East Coast. The only thing we do out here is make them and ship them to the East Coast.

Hey Step, West slope is great, trees are turning, weather is perfect (but isn't it always here in CO?)
I just happen to have a new Pro Cobra that I haven't even thrown yet. I'll give it a shot today.
I'm 99% sure I'm not going to make it to States ... My wifes parents picked that weekend to come visit us [from Nashville], so I'm grounded. I wish there were more tourneys here in the winter, seems like there should be. The weather is almost always perfect, even when there is snow.

So what is the hot new thing from innova going to be?

The newest release will be the Champion Roadrunner in about 3 weeks.

Dave,

ETA on the SB Teebird?

Will it be a fundtraiser or a regular release? (sorry if already covered.)

The SB TeeBird will most likely be a regular production disc. We don't have an ETA as yet, but we are testing now.

Regular Production???
SWEEEEEEET.
I'll have to sell my 11x Candy Teebird Stash so i can buy up all these Badboyz....
Any colors beside Red/white/blue??

-Scott Lewis

Any colors beside Red/white/blue??


You got a problem with AMERICA?!? LOL

WOW!!! I cant believe the SB Teebirds will be regular production. Its ABOUT time you gave us what we want and not have it be some limited release....

:D

Accidental Roller: Yeah I do actually, but this isn't the time nor place for that kind of talk. Maybe after I finish my paper on Business Ethics and Social Responsibility of Major corporations we can talk.

way too tired for that crap.

can't wait for 'Dem Birds.

-Scott Lewis

greatzky, the initial colors will be white, blue, red, yellow, with maybe a few black.

What is the MSRP for the SB Teebird? Sorry if this was already answered.

PikNik

The SB TeeBird will most likely be a regular production disc. We don't have an ETA as yet, but we are testing now.



How are the test discs performing? It's gotta be money if they're ran thru the CA mold.

PikNik, regular Champion prices.

DSProAviar, so far so good. Initial flight was slightly overstable with good glide. Grip and feel are good. After abusing it a little, it seems to be holding up well.

Sorry if this has been answered... Will the SB teebirds be the T or TL mold?

Sweeet. Keep up the good work Dave.

hi dave,
couple questions about stamping:
1) are you stamping the RC rocs with the big bird again?
2)how many disc do i have to purchase for a custom stamp?

thanks dave

Kenja, we plan on doing both T and TL, but T first.

Dave, when and from where will X-out Coyotes, CFR Wraiths, and SB Orcs be available?

Thanks for your time.

troof, 100 discs minimum for custom stamp. [email protected] contact: Sam. What is the Big Bird stamp? Is it something other than our regular hotstamp?

X-out Coyotes and CFR Wraiths are available now through zonedriven and discgolfvalues. X-out SB Orcs are not yet available. Don't know when those will be available.

Dave does any of the post production/post sale graphic dye jobs bother you at all? (i.e. naked women, illeagal substances, copyrighted material

Dave,
it's if I'm correct, one of the original "roc" bird stamps. the bird takes up most of the flightplate instead of the smaller versions that I've seen over the past 4-5 years. i remember seeing them with am masters and girlfriends of disc'ers that their rocs were too broke-in for them :D
just wondering if I found a couple of jems :D

Me no see X-out Coyotes, hmmm.

Travis, I hope none of that comes from our offices or associates, as I don't want it associated with our business. However, if someone decides to redecorate a production disc they have purchased, they have every right to do so.

troof, no we don't plan on using the original stamp at this time.

Boneman, if there are any X-outs available, even if they are not listed at the sites, you can send an email to them or call. They will be able to tell you if they can come up with them or not.

Boneman, if there are any X-outs available, even if they are not listed at the sites, you can send an email to them or call. They will be able to tell you if they can come up with them or not.



this is true....

Hey dave,
I am planning on putting together a package of information at the Community College I'm attending to try and convince them to look into considering installing a discgolf course.
Are there any resources that innova has to make the whole presentation easier?
Also does Innova do any type of Basket matching you buy baskets to be installed on school property?

-Scott Lewis

troof, no we don't plan on using the original stamp at this time.




Sweet! LUcky find!!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :) :D :D;)

greatzky, we do have course presentation materials. There has been a matching basket program that we were involved in. Not sure what the program is a present. you can contact innovadiscgolf.com for information.

Hey dave,
I am planning on putting together a package of information at the Community College I'm attending to try and convince them to look into considering installing a discgolf course.
Are there any resources that innova has to make the whole presentation easier?
Also does Innova do any type of Basket matching you buy baskets to be installed on school property?

DIsc Golf Foundation Matching Baskets Program (http://www.pdga.com/matching_baskets.php)

I contacted the Foundation while working on a course at Lincoln Memorial University in 2003 and they said funding was inadequate so the program was inactive.

TROOF- There are big bird stamps on some discs that are recently produced. I've seen them on DX Orcs and DX small bead Aviars. They say J-Bird Discs on top of the ring, and Innova Champion Discs, Inc. on the bottom of the ring. Its a 2 color stamp, probably from J-Bird. I have an old Ontario Roc with this stamp, and I have seen 1 other Ontario with this stamp. It's pretty sweet looking, but if it's on an Orc or an Aviar, it's most likely a new production run. I havent seen any rocs with this stamp, but if you have, gimme a PM!

Dave,
It seems like innova is starting to produce a bunch of CFR Glow plastic (Eagle, Firebird, Orc, Starfire, Roc, etc.). Glow season is coming up, & now we finally have some glow discs that are similar to what we actually throw during daytime rounds.

Does this plastic glow better or longer than the standard DX plastic? Or is it about the same, or shorter? Thanks!!

catchafire, it's the same stuff as the DX glow.

I wonder if the plastic differences could retard the rate of the electrons going back to their natural state and prolong the glow :confused:

I wonder if the plastic differences could retard the rate of the electrons going back to their natural state and prolong the glow :confused:


The life of electrons in an excited state is a property of the material. The only way to get them to glow longer without implanting mild radioactive materials would be to eliminate all external stimulants. So if you want your discs to glow longer, don't throw them. Also, glow discs work better in colder weather as heat is a form of radiation. Even at night there are many sources of radiation. If something is not either absorbing or reflecting light (i.e. radiation), you can't see it (why outerspace is black).

Dave are you going to run a 2cd batch of the special blend orcs for am worlds.

I just got my 2 and I really want to throw at least 1. They look and feel sweet.

Thanks
Jason

omegaputt, yes. You can ask TwistedFlyer for the details. They are the distributor for the SB Orc.

They say J-Bird Discs on top of the ring, and Innova Champion Discs, Inc. on the bottom of the ring. Its a 2 color stamp, probably from J-Bird.




DSpA- I've seen the Jbirds at the michigan finals this year. They don't say that in the ring around the top of his head. These are Rancho molds. I got into the sport after the original production of these (my 2nd disc was a small bird "stable mid range driver" labeled one) Do you know the value?

Dave,

Does the "roc" have a name or is he just the roc?

Daniel Xavier :D

ce

Dave,
Forgive me if this has been previously asked, but are there any plans to run the coyote in pro and/or dx plastic.

Btw, you guys hit it out of the park with the coyote mold. This is probably the most impressive disc I've thrown in 18 yrs. I'm really old school and like the feel of dx so I was hoping to have a few dx coyotes to compliment my champions.

Hey Dave, when do you expect those SB tee-birds to be out???

SB Coyotes? :D

steven, and robj, no plans for Pro Coyotes, but we will try DX and will definitely run SB at some point.

Jaymo, I wish they were out right now, but they are going to have to wait several weeks for production. I have been testing one for about a week and I like it. It is stable like a good candy, and it feels a little more grippy.

Dave,
sorry to keep bugging you about the ram....but
do you think when you run some this winter, you could run some in the DX glow plastic? :D

troof, that's probably not going to happen. I might get crazy and try candy. It would be limited, if it happened. Might try candy Python's too. That used to be one of my favotite discs. The brother of the Ram.

Just got my SB orcs. SB plastic is the best plastic out there. Great job. SB classic rocs pleeeeze.

Dave I've got a question:

I have several white x-out rocs in a plastic I've never seen before. I got them from Mark at Discgolfvalues around the time the 2005 Super rocs came out. He called them X-out super rocs, but the plastic seemed slicker, and more durable. The mold was also a little sharper, on the edge.

I couldn't quite place the plastic until I felt the new SB plastic. It feels really similar.

so my question is; to your knowledge did you guys ever try to mold the standard Rancho Roc in white SB plastic (would have been around January of 2005 when I got them)

thank you very much sir...

jaymo, as I recall, the Super Rocs were a mix of Champion and Pro, with the emphasis on Champion.

Hey Dave

On Ebay somene is selling a Champion Wraith. I havent heard about you making these, only pro and CFR. Is this guy just wrong on Ebay??

Here's a link to the auction he's talking about:
Champion Wraith (http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-NOT-SEEN-CHAMPION-WRAITH-GOLF-DISC-MAX-WT_W0QQitemZ7187047634QQcategoryZ79804QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem)

It's not the first one I've seen up for auction either.

Im willing to bet thats the first release of the Pro Line hes selling there.

So far, it appears a buddy of mine has the winning bid. If he gets it, Ill ask to get my hands on it and let you all know exactly what it is.

While on the subject of the CFR Wraith's; when we buy these are there supposed to be CFR certificates with them or not? I got CFR certificates with my SB Orcs, but didnt get them with my Wraiths.

That definately appears to be a proline wraith.. I have seen a few blue prolines with the same stamp as that. I believe innova sponsored players received some of those. ;)

I swear that has to be a PRO Wraith NOT a champion Wraith. I threw about 4 of them out of Barry's stock when he received them. They are given to the Team Champion Players. It's nothing special just a custom stamp for the players. The champion wraiths Barry received were not stamped so I don't know why this guy thinks that is Champion plastic. I am pretty sure it is Pro Line.

Josh

I saw someone testing out the champ one a few weeks ago....it had the mini star stamp on it.

troof, that's probably not going to happen. I might get crazy and try candy. It would be limited, if it happened. Might try candy Python's too. That used to be one of my favotite discs. The brother of the Ram.



I would be happy (as you probably know already :D) to play-test those and give you a very, very extensive report! ;)

When you run rams over the winter, any plans on updating the hot stamp or will you stick with the old school? I've got some ideas if you want. pm me if youre courious :D

thanks again, dave!!!

The Frizwiz is a top collector. Kurt should know what he's selling.

Oh, come on now......

Like it would be uncommon for someone to 'upsell' their product on ebay?

Correct me if Im wrong here but wouldnt the champion plastic be a little more 'see thru'?

dweller, you should have recieved a certificate with your cfr wraith unless you bought an X-out.

I bought four (not X outs) and no certificate. I don't really care though.

Sorry if this has been asked before but when are the SB Teebirds supposed to be released?

Ill4mation: from the other page:

Dave said:

Jaymo, I wish they were out right now, but they are going to have to wait several weeks for production. I have been testing one for about a week and I like it. It is stable like a good candy, and it feels a little more grippy.



-Scott Lewis
p.s. I can't wait for them.. They might even replace my 11x teebirds.

totally... I think the SB plastic will be most important for those discs designed more for accuracy, than distance, like the teebird, and some midranges...

Feel and touch are so important to me.

So far, I have tested SB in TeeBirds, Sharks, Rocs, Wraiths, StarfireL, Valkyries, Roadrunners, and Sidewinders. And thrown the Orc. TeeBirds, Sharks, Rocs, Wraiths, and Valkyries all seem to fly like normal candy. The Orcs, Roadrunners, and Sidewinders seem a little more stable with the Sidewinder having the most change to stable.

First time poster, long time lurker.

I would donate a lung and 3 toes for a short stack of SB Starfire-L's.

At this point, I'm looking for any Starfire-L's I can get.

Dave, 2 questions.

1. Can you comment on the differences in the design, and purpose, of the 2 CFR Starfire molds as they are being produced today?

I have examples of both discs, and have thrown them plenty - even an Ace at Idlewild with my beloved Starfire-L. I'm just not sure where the the other Starfire fits in my bag - I think it has a VERY different shot shape vs. the Starfire-L. I would love to see Innova produce a chart that distinguishes the two Starfire flights next to each other, just like you do for all the drivers of a certain speed.

And,

2. Do you know where I can find some CFR Starfire-L's at the new $15.99 CFR price? My next local tournament is getting some Starfires in, but they are Inncolors, and they're looking way too pretty to throw! Great job with the KY States discs, Innova!

Thanks for making some great plastic for me throw at trees, into lakes, and off concrete. I always enjoy misusing your products best.

Oh, the SB Orcs that I got - GREAT STUFF! The CFR Wraiths from Zonedriven....not so hot. I was the guy that robj was talking about, with 2 X-OUT discs shipped to me, for the regular price. They gave me another X-OUT, but that's not really what I ordered. I'll order from DiscGolfValues from now on.

I swear that has to be a PRO Wraith NOT a champion Wraith. I threw about 4 of them out of Barry's stock when he received them. They are given to the Team Champion Players. It's nothing special just a custom stamp for the players. The champion wraiths Barry received were not stamped so I don't know why this guy thinks that is Champion plastic. I am pretty sure it is Pro Line.

Josh




No. Its Champion. FrizWiz knows what hes talking about. Sprague had some just like it last month.

Thats great that your testing all those discs in special blend plastic. Keep it comming. Heres a question: you have stated that the SB Tbirds will be in stardard production, but is there any idea where they and any other standard run SBs will fall on the price charts? Same as Champion? Same as Pro? More than both? Or a special blend of Champion and Pro pricing? :
confused:

I'm not actually confussed. Unless you consider me not knowing how to post the little face that has the question marks above it and have it come up as the face not the word confused.

Choke Artist:
I think Dave already stated that they would be a regular produced disc. if so it would be subject to the regular pricing of Champion plastic which is actually 15.99 MSRP.. but will probably sell for 12-13 at most stores/vendors like regular champ discs.

-Scott Lewis

keith, the Starfire and Starfire L are fairly analogous to the TeeBird and TeeBird L. The regulars are more high speed stable with more low speed overstability. The Ls are straighter with a slight high speed turn more carry and less low speed overstability. The only place I know for sure to get Starfire L CFR X parts is discgolfvalues. You could ask Mark there if he knows of any CFR Starfire L regulars. He gets back from vacation at the end of this week.

choke artist, greatzky is right about the pricing

Dave-What makes some Orcs more stable than others? I have a super clear, poppy Orc that is wayyyy stable. Yesterday I broke my distance barrier and put it out to about 470. Every other Orc I've had is way understable, but this...this is amazing. why? I've noticed alot of the see through Orcs have this trait.

DS, if that Orc is a lighter weight, it may be a new plastic we have that has that effect. If it is a heavier weight, I don't know how it happened, but I have seen it in the past.

I heard that all the clear POPPY top Orcs are that Stable to OVERstable. I was testing some out in AZ and Dave Feldburg grabbed one of my bed in the room popped the top and said "Pay Attention, Pay Attention, these are the good ones" It was hillarious and from then on every POPPY top Orc I have seen the person throwing it says its crazy stable to overstable and it always seems to be the clear ones. Just what I have found and what I have been told.

Hey Dave D,

How do I get a job with Innova? I'm a chemical engineer and it would be amazing to work there. Sometimes I dream about how awesome that would be. :cool:

I thought about this too since I'm really good with cost accounting, I figured that'd be great for a disc manufacturer. But then I realized that every time the prices of discs went up, I'd get stoned.

^^^
Just realized how that reads so I'll replace it with "bludgeoned."

I sent my resume to all the major disc companies when I graduated in engineering... I got polite replies from Ching and Discraft, saying that they had no interest in new engineers. I was suprised they even replied, most companies dont even take the time to do that.

I swear that has to be a PRO Wraith NOT a champion Wraith. I threw about 4 of them out of Barry's stock when he received them. They are given to the Team Champion Players. It's nothing special just a custom stamp for the players. The champion wraiths Barry received were not stamped so I don't know why this guy thinks that is Champion plastic. I am pretty sure it is Pro Line.

Josh




No. Its Champion. FrizWiz knows what hes talking about. Sprague had some just like it last month.

Are you sure the ones Sprague had were Champion? Because Haney (Team Champion), Leonard (Team Champion), Johansen (Team Innova), and Schweb (Team Champion) have Wraiths that are identical in color and have the same hotstamp as the one FrizWiz is selling, and the ones they have are all Pro. Also, Larry Leonard and Michael Johansen were throwing CFR Wraiths at the Sneeky Pete (A-Tier) this past weekend, but the ones they were throwing were clear, not opaque.

I swear that has to be a PRO Wraith NOT a champion Wraith. I threw about 4 of them out of Barry's stock when he received them. They are given to the Team Champion Players. It's nothing special just a custom stamp for the players. The champion wraiths Barry received were not stamped so I don't know why this guy thinks that is Champion plastic. I am pretty sure it is Pro Line.

Josh




No. Its Champion. FrizWiz knows what hes talking about. Sprague had some just like it last month.

Are you sure the ones Sprague had were Champion? Because Haney (Team Champion), Leonard (Team Champion), Johansen (Team Innova), and Schweb (Team Champion) have Wraiths that are identical in color and have the same hotstamp as the one FrizWiz is selling, and the ones they have are all Pro. Also, Larry Leonard and Michael Johansen were throwing CFR Wraiths at the Sneeky Pete (A-Tier) this past weekend, but the ones they were throwing were clear, not opaque.



I saw the one Sprague's been throwing, and its Champion.

And anyways, isn't CFR plastic the exact same as regular runs? (Excluding Glow CFR of course)

I sent FrizWiz a email askig him. I'll let you know what he tells me.