evilee13 and dreamintree, we don't have any enigineers on staff. All the college staff work in the office and sales. Mostly business degrees. You would be way over qualified to work in injection molding with me. No college degrees. Some HS degrees.

flynvegas, I would be interested to know too. It looks like Pro to me too. Maybe it's a bad picture, but it should not be opaque candy. That would make it SB. That has not be released and the tests were only in blue and white.

Was that the floodgates I just heard?

And anyways, isn't CFR plastic the exact same as regular runs? (Excluding Glow CFR of course)

Not necessarily: CFR discs are limited edition discs that are models that are not available for sale in our regular product line, or they are models available only in limited runs of special Candy/Champion plastic (http://innovadiscs.com/cfr/).

Based on past usage it appears that, with the exception of the Champion (aka USDGC) Roc, the moniker "Champion" is used to designate discs that are available as regular production discs. That being the case, listing a CFR disc as being "Champion" is bad both from a seller's point of view (because it fails to leverage a chief selling point: collectibility due to its limited number and availability, thereby potentially holding down the price) and a buyer's point of view (because a bidder might bid less than s/he might otherwise if s/he thinks s/he'll be able to pick one up a her/his local retailer for $12-13 is a couple of weeks).

flynvegas, I would be interested to know too. It looks like Pro to me too. Maybe it's a bad picture, but it should not be opaque candy. That would make it SB. That has not be released and the tests were only in blue and white.

Uh ... Chase, DDH ... you might want to check with Sprague again whether that disc's really a Champ Wraith. :D

Sprague's is champion I've seen it too, it's not opaque though. It's clearish like Dave is implying.

evilee13 and dreamintree, we don't have any enigineers on staff. All the college staff work in the office and sales. Mostly business degrees. You would be way over qualified to work in injection molding with me. No college degrees. Some HS degrees.



If there are no engineers on staff, who troubleshoots the equipment?, who tracks trends in data to see if equipment isn't working properly?, who removes bottlenecks?, who researches new technologies to make discs?

It seems that there are some pretty large variances between runs of discs that affect their flight. Anything from "poppy" orcs and the "dominess" of one disc compared to another. It seems to me that these discrepancies between runs good be reduced with a better engineered process.

So, I'm officially offering my services to be the staff engineer. :D I only require a modest engineers salary, and some free discs. I'll even take the x-out discs. Also, one of my job responsibilities will be to go out to the course and test new equipment.

There has to be a course on the Innova campus. A championship course with rolling hills, lush fairways, perfectly manicured foliage. A place where the beer flows like wine, and the women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. If it's actually more like a rundown warehouse in the middle of an industrial park, don't tell me, don't ruin my dream! :p

Also, one of my job responsibilities will be to go out to the course and test new equipment.

There has to be a course on the Innova campus. A championship course with rolling hills, lush fairways, perfectly manicured foliage. A place where the beer flows like wine, and the women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. If it's actually more like a rundown warehouse in the middle of an industrial park, don't tell me, don't ruin my dream! :p



Wow! OK! So Im not the only ONE?!? I feel better now......I thought I was the only one that had that dream?!?

Funny stuff man!

:D :D :D

Was that the floodgates I just heard?



Dave when will the Wraith be released in Special Blend plastic, and will it be part of the CFR program or just a regular release? Thanks.

flynvegas, I would be interested to know too. It looks like Pro to me too. Maybe it's a bad picture, but it should not be opaque candy. That would make it SB. That has not be released and the tests were only in blue and white.

Uh ... Chase, DDH ... you might want to check with Sprague again whether that disc's really a Champ Wraith. :D





It was clear plastic. It was awhile ago, but Claya probably played with him last weekend. Nice weekend, BTW Claya.

evilee13 and dreamintree, we don't have any enigineers on staff. All the college staff work in the office and sales. Mostly business degrees. You would be way over qualified to work in injection molding with me. No college degrees. Some HS degrees.



If there are no engineers on staff, who troubleshoots the equipment?, who tracks trends in data to see if equipment isn't working properly?, who removes bottlenecks?, who researches new technologies to make discs?

It seems that there are some pretty large variances between runs of discs that affect their flight. Anything from "poppy" orcs and the "dominess" of one disc compared to another. It seems to me that these discrepancies between runs good be reduced with a better engineered process.

So, I'm officially offering my services to be the staff engineer. :D I only require a modest engineers salary, and some free discs. I'll even take the x-out discs. Also, one of my job responsibilities will be to go out to the course and test new equipment.

There has to be a course on the Innova campus. A championship course with rolling hills, lush fairways, perfectly manicured foliage. A place where the beer flows like wine, and the women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. If it's actually more like a rundown warehouse in the middle of an industrial park, don't tell me, don't ruin my dream! :p



I wonder what kind of manufacturing line Innova is really running if they arent employing ANY engineers... I would imagine all tooling is outsourced. What kind of tool shop does a disc company maintain? I am used to examining defects from mold presses and assembly operations that are running daily quantities in the millions, with many molds being run at once in the same facility. It seems to me that most disc companies probably only run a couple molds at a time. Can you shed any light on this subject, Dave? I am interested to know how disc production really works. My experience with injection molding is thorough enough that I understand all the parameters of the process, but dont exactly understand the driving forces behind all the fine-tuning that operators do while they are preparing or stabilizing a molding operation.

On 2005-08-26, Dave wrote:
We have stock now in Champ. Classic Rocs. It is being moved to regular Champion Stock. It will not be discontinued as it has its own niche. It is our lowest profile putter approach disc. It is stable, and durable. It has no real faults, and has good assets. The market will dictate how desireable it is over time. They will most likely be available in two weeks.


It's now almost six weeks later, and I still don't see them at ZoneDriven or DiscGolfValues. Where can I find Champion Classic Rocs?

On 2005-08-26, Dave wrote:
We have stock now in Champ. Classic Rocs. It is being moved to regular Champion Stock. It will not be discontinued as it has its own niche. It is our lowest profile putter approach disc. It is stable, and durable. It has no real faults, and has good assets. The market will dictate how desireable it is over time. They will most likely be available in two weeks.


It's now almost six weeks later, and I still don't see them at ZoneDriven or DiscGolfValues. Where can I find Champion Classic Rocs?



Check out http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc? :)

Chase, the SB Wraith will be part of fundraising for the Pro Worlds. No time has been set yet for production.

dreamin tree, we outsource everthing except general shop maintenance. The only thing we do is run the injection molding equipment. We don't do repairs unless they are very minor. We only run a few molds at a time. Our daily quantities are in the hundreds, not millions. Basic machines. No robots.

Mark, if you don't see them at zonedriven or discgolfvalues, send them an email. They can get them, if they exist. The Champion Classic Rocs are stamped and in stock.

It was clear plastic.

Ah, but in that case, it has zero relevance to the accuracy of FrizWiz's description, because the question isn't whether or not there are candy Wraiths out there; its whether the opaque one one FrizWiz listed as being Champion is, in fact, "Champion" or merely Pro.

Dave, can you give us a top-secret preview of what the stamps will be on the 2006 USDGC Rocs and how many different stamps there will be?
Thanks
Colin

accidentalroller, I have only seen one piece of art that was in process for the SBs going on sale at the USDGC. It has been changed, and I have not seen it. The other stamps haven't been started, as far as I know. It's all done on the East Coast.

Dave,
I just saw some of the new 5x aviar x in blue yellow and red, as well as white. Just wondering if you are planning on making any other colors. Also will you start selling colored KC aviars?

Hi dave,
Gotta give you props on the champ wraith! Alittle tighter than the pro with tons of glide. pushing the limits of what I can do with the orc.
Nice job! Well worth the time and money!!! :cool:

Gimmie, we mostly make white, but we do make other colors including yellow. Not planning on any KC Aviar colors, but not ruling it out at this point.

flynvegas, I would be interested to know too. It looks like Pro to me too. Maybe it's a bad picture, but it should not be opaque candy. That would make it SB. That has not be released and the tests were only in blue and white.


Got a reply from Kurt that this is Pro plastic. Bad description on eBay.

he changed the description a couple days ago and stated the whole proline thing!!lol

It was clear plastic.

Ah, but in that case, it has zero relevance to the accuracy of FrizWiz's description, because the question isn't whether or not there are candy Wraiths out there; its whether the opaque one one FrizWiz listed as being Champion is, in fact, "Champion" or merely Pro.




This is true. My only thoughts are that I have seen several Champion Wraiths that have more "Pearl" in them than others,( I know its a stretch ) and this may be what he has. He could also be looking for another 40$, as well. I seen people selling Pro Orcs as Night Shifts. Unless you have both in your hand its hard to tell the difference. In hand its obvious.

he changed the description a couple days ago and stated the whole proline thing!!lol



uh.........dude it still says champion!!lol

Dave, are fairway drivers slowly going the way of the buffalo? I don't see as many people throwing Gazelle's, Cheetah's, and Leopards as I did when I first started playing. I know in my case, when I started out I needed something in between my drivers and my midranges. But now that I can throw a roc, buzz, and coyote over 300ft. Anything longer I use a distance driver. Are a new generation of fairway drivers on the horizon or have teebirds, eagles, etc, become the new fairway drivers since we have discs like starfires and wraiths that push distances so much further?
I'd be interested to know your view on the subject as you have seen and contributed to the evolution of a new generation of midranges and maximum distance drivers. Thanks.

Im hoping for Special Blend Leopards and/or CFR Glo Leopards. I dislike the new ones.

Dave, whats up with Des' disc? Is she still getting one?

Thanks as always!

Dave. You said SB rocs going on sale "at" the USDGC. Does this mean that the spectator rocs will be SB. If so, will they also be available early next year?

accidental roller, the fairway drivers such as the whippet, gazelle and cheetah are not as popular as they once were when they also were used for distance. They have a smaller niche now. The Viper and Raven have become the dinosaurs, along with the Ram and Python. The Firebird, TeeBird and Eagle have taken the same niche for some. The Leopard will likely remain as the most popular of the fairway drivers as it is better than the faster discs for staying on the fairway in tight situations.

chase, we will be doing sb leopards at some point. We have no plans for a des disc at this point.

choke artist, yes, the spectator Rocs will be SB. A maximum of 1000 are available. They will also be available early next year.

Dave, any info on the color for the SB Rocs?

Any gonna be white?

: ) :

Dave, do you know if there are any plans to run SB USDGC Rocs in the standard mold or will they be sticking to just the Ontario (I think thats right) mold?

SB Rocs were Ontario type. I don't know what colors will be offered at the event, but two other colors were added to the run. White was one color added to blue and red. I don't think I am supposed to say the other.

I hope its safety cone orange! Or fluorescent Lime green!

Dave likes to run gold stuff.

Maybe not. That's usually only the first time he does something different.

hey dave can you tell me the history on the michael jordan collection. like how many each year and how long they ran thanks alot joe pg

jpg, sorry, no clue. Maybe you can ask Hawk. :) Or Felix.

I hope its safety cone orange! Or fluorescent Lime green!



You really thinkk that will keep you from losing them? :D
Just because they're a bright color, doesn't mean they will float. :D

Holy moly! I just saw one of the stamps of this year's rocs. It is sweet, just a huge talon in a circle stamp. I'm pretty sure it was on red and white SB's. I don't even like these discs, but I'll probably get one now just to look at it. The image is on the usdgc site, it'll pop up on the random pic header.
Also-Dave, I would LOVE to see some colored KC Aviars, and KC Rocs as long as we're at it. Some nice solid color, dark blues and bright reds would cheer me up on a cloudy day.

chase, we will be doing sb leopards at some point. We have no plans for a des disc at this point.




Thats great about the Leopards, very disapointing about the Des disc.

Holy moly! I just saw one of the stamps of this year's rocs. It is sweet, just a huge talon in a circle stamp. I'm pretty sure it was on red and white SB's. I don't even like these discs, but I'll probably get one now just to look at it. The image is on the usdgc site, it'll pop up on the random pic header.
Also-Dave, I would LOVE to see some colored KC Aviars, and KC Rocs as long as we're at it. Some nice solid color, dark blues and bright reds would cheer me up on a cloudy day.


Here is what he is talking about.
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/9899/2006usdgcrocs6dq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Glow Candy CFR Aviars !!!!!! :D

Here is what he is talking about.
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/9899/2006usdgcrocs6dq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


That's a mighty sweet stamp.

what's the deal on SB's? Is it just a 50/50 or something totally different?

dave, can i get the stats on that new road runner disc you mentioned coming out soon?

trav....more understable than a sidewinder...

primarily will be used as a roller disc

10up, SB is all champion candy with an additive that improves grip, and sometimes adds a little stability.

trav, it doesn't matter is right. The numbers are the same as a Sidewinder except the high speed turn is slightly more. 9,5,-4,1

Dave,

Is there any specific reason why Des won't be getting a disc of her own?

Dave's at the US Championship this week, so he'll probably be answering lots of questions next week.

Matt

durrrr....

i am thinking the stupidity of my students is starting to rub off on me.

wow,you think your students are stupid, there lucky to have you for a teacher

hard to believe there can be a disc made more understable than a sidewinder /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

if you are ragging on a teacher--at least use the correct spelling of "their" :)

It woould be "they're"... but it's the thought that counts.

nah...

i have some good students....

just lazy, unmotivated, and won't study.....

they think they don't need me or anything i teach them...so that is what makes them stupid

oops--you're correct :p
while we are at it, let's improve our use of then/than :o

Dave,
Thanks for keeping your ear to ground and making the SB Teebird. I can't wait to get my hands on one.

I'm sure this has been asked before but I can't find it. Are there any plans to make a SB Starfire? Thanks in advance!

Nick

Dave's not here.

Dave's not here.



Way to much Cheech and Chong!!

:D :D :D

Ya gotta love it when you can say something that simple and folks recognize it. Too much Cheech and Chong? No way dude......... :cool::cool::cool:

It's me, Dave. Open up, man, I got the stuff!

It's me, Dave. Open up, man, I got the stuff!



Unless it's old CE plastic raw material. Dave's not here! :D

It's me, Dave. Open up, man, I got the stuff!



Dave? ... Dave's not here :D

SB Rocs were Ontario type. I don't know what colors will be offered at the event, but two other colors were added to the run. White was one color added to blue and red. I don't think I am supposed to say the other.

OK, now that they're out, somebody spill the beans: what's the other color?

you'll have to wait till next feb.

all that was released at the event were red and white

: ) :

SB Rocs were Ontario type. I don't know what colors will be offered at the event, but two other colors were added to the run. White was one color added to blue and red. I don't think I am supposed to say the other.

OK, now that they're out, somebody spill the beans: what's the other color?



They only had White and Red SB Rocs, but I saw Innova Team Members with some Black SB TeeBirds....but they didn't feel as good as the Rocs and Orcs I've seen...it was more of a SE feel than SB.

If they feel like old special edition I could support that. ;)

Dave, nice third round at the USDGC! Over all 4 rounds, looks like you averaged 991 rated disc golf...

how are your feet doing?

also, what disc was your workhorse? :D

piknik, yes, we plan on making most of the candy discs in SB. I have been testing a Starfire L in SB and like it very much.

robj, thanks, my putt didn't start working until the third round. My feet were fine thanks. My workhorse disc had to be the Champion Wraith thrown sidearm. I used it on 2, 4, 5, 8, 10, 11, 16, 17, 18 sidearm and 6, 9, 12, 13, 14 backhand. 1, 3, 15 were JK Aviar. 7 was Monster.

Dave,

Do you get as much distance with your sidearm as you do with your backhand? Also, do you feel one is more accurate for you than the other? Just curious as to what your experiences are. I too like the Wraith for both backhand and forehand.

Matt

Matt, I get about 350 on a sidearm and about 400 on a backhand on a tee shot. If I tried to throw farther, my accuracy would suffer. Accuracy is about the same for both deliveries.

thanks dave, and good shotting at USDGC.

Crossing my fingers for those SB T's...

Dave,
Are the winners of the CFR raffle posted some where? Thx

http://www.innovadiscs.com/cfr/rewards.html

Thx. I need to send my stack in for the next drawing.

Question: What is the main difference in flight between Glow discs and regular? Specifically:

Glow Teebird v. Champion Teebird
Glow Eagle v. Champion Eagle

Dave,
Can Special Blend plastic be made to glo?

Chris, I don't know any difference personally, but I have heard that the glow is a little more stable.

Kdiddy, I don't think SB would glow very well. The color would mask it.

Pleas move over to the new uneffected Ask Dave D. thread.

ce

hey Dave

who is the artist that designed 2006 SB rocs, the talon that i adore? hope he is John Dorn that he designed the 2005 SB rocs.

DeafDGolfer

What year did the pro classic roc come out?

Hey Dave, what can you tell about these SE Rocs? All others I have seem say Super Roc in the bar stamp, these do not. Thanks!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andykloiber/8024166912/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andykloiber/8024184873/in/photostream

Hey Dave, what can you tell about these SE Rocs? All others I have seem say Super Roc in the bar stamp, these do not. Thanks!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andykloiber/8024166912/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andykloiber/8024184873/in/photostream

Contact Mark Molnar at Innova West and he may be able to help you with this question. I can't. Sorry.

Those are 1st Run Super Rocs. There is another with the more modern barstamp, than all the Worlds remakes, then some other remake with the 2nd Run stamp w a small Innova swoosh on the bottom.

Dave, how is it supposed "dead" stamps make it back to modern product?

Those are 1st Run Super Rocs. There is another with the more modern barstamp, than all the Worlds remakes, then some other remake with the 2nd Run stamp w a small Innova swoosh on the bottom.

Dave, how is it supposed "dead" stamps make it back to modern product?

What is a dead stamp? No stamps are dead unless they are destroyed, but no discs are stamped with an old stamp to pass it as an old disc, if that is what you mean. Any time we use a retro stamp, we let any customers know exactly what it is.

What is a dead stamp? No stamps are dead unless they are destroyed, but no discs are stamped with an old stamp to pass it as an old disc, if that is what you mean. Any time we use a retro stamp, we let any customers know exactly what it is.

Have you considered devoting a part of your site to these re-released discs and images to avoid confusion? I know it sounds like work, but Im sure you would find that the attention it got would be worth doing it. People are very into anything Innova, vintage stamps, disc history, ect. Just because you tell the customer doesnt mean anyone else will. Case in point, the remake "Hands" stamped Aviar Im staring at...

Dave, what's this I hear about Paul McBeth signature CHAMP ROCs?!!! What tooling are they? Are they just USDGC CFRs or are they going to be production discs? I can't wait!

Dave, what's this I hear about Paul McBeth signature CHAMP ROCs?!!! What tooling are they? Are they just USDGC CFRs or are they going to be production discs? I can't wait!

These were a limited release Roc 3 mold. Although Paul's signature is on it, it may not be a Paul McBeth Roc if he is not completely happy with it. This mold will be released to the public in a few months. It is not as over stable as the regular Rancho and is a little flatter.

The USDGC Rocs are the regular Ranchos with a special material to make them fairly flat.

Dave,

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but I was wondering why the blizzards no longer have bubbles in the flight plate? For instance, the first run blizzard bosses are already highly sought after because the bubbles in the flight plate.

Thanks

Dave,

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but I was wondering why the blizzards no longer have bubbles in the flight plate? For instance, the first run blizzard bosses are already highly sought after because the bubbles in the flight plate.

Thanks

We can run more consistently with the bubbles in the rim. Why do people think bubbles in the flight plate are better?

We can run more consistently with the bubbles in the rim. Why do people think bubbles in the flight plate are better?

The flight is different, I have noticed this too. The new blizzard bosses with bubbles only in the rim seem to have a very sharp hyzer finish, while the first runs with bubbles in the flight plate have a more smooth turn and fade. I have seen players getting over 500ft with the first runs and struggle to get 450 with the new ones, which may be why so many players are seeking them out

In theory, wouldn't more bubbles in the middle (vs rim) mean a little more weight in the rim for a given total disc weight increasing a gyroscope effect?

I have to agree that the earlier Blizzards with bubbles in the flight plate -- particularly the early F2s -- give me more distance with better glide than the clear flightplate ones. I've done side-by-sides with F2 Bliz Wraiths, Bosses and Katanas vs. later, rim-only bubbles and for me the difference is clear. Another benefit is the more-solid rim F2s take hits a lot better and don't "shred" along the rim edge nearly as badly as the later ones.

I would also agree, especially in the case of the Boss.

All the bubble plate Destroyers were way overstable. Im still yet to flip one.

I just think they look cooler...

...sort of like a blizzard...

I just think they look cooler...

...sort of like a blizzard...

I would agree with that too, and so would about 70% of my customers. The other 30% jumped on the bandwagon after the bubbles went to rim, so they dont know the difference, just that they are supposed to have them in the plate.

I have to agree that the earlier Blizzards with bubbles in the flight plate -- particularly the early F2s -- give me more distance with better glide than the clear flightplate ones. I've done side-by-sides with F2 Bliz Wraiths, Bosses and Katanas vs. later, rim-only bubbles and for me the difference is clear. Another benefit is the more-solid rim F2s take hits a lot better and don't "shred" along the rim edge nearly as badly as the later ones.

I think this is another good point, now that all the bubbles are pushed into the rim, it seems like a less durable rim. And I agree with the other poster who said the bubbles in the flight plate look better

I throw the Blizzard Katana and find the ones with bubbles on the flight plate are more domey. They fly further and are more controllable for me.

Fortunately, I found a stack of them at a local store and bought them all so I am set.