Felix, yes, all of our discs that don't have triangular rims, did not have the patent on them, starting with the Apple, Super Nova, Zephyr, Birdie, etc.

Robj, the Leopard would be better than the Cheetah for that.

chase, the Viking is less nose sensitive than many of our other drivers, but more so than a Valkyrie or Sidewinder.

al, we haven't done beadless in a long time. The small bead took its place as it was more comfortable in the hand for most, and would wear better. The beadless felt sharp on the bottom and wore jaggedly.

Thanks for the info Dave. Is a Barry Schultz Leopard in the works?

one other question. i've noticed that when i throw my Sidewinder through a narrow dogleg right alley, i worry i may flip it too much and so i put a ton of spin on it but this seems to keep it from flipping soon enough. would you recommend less spin or just adjusting where i aim?

robj, i think dave said earlier in this thread that the BS leopard wouldn't be making an apperance until all of the other leopards that have the standard stamp are sold.

I think he said about 5 or 6 months until that happens.

robj, following post answered the first question. As for the Sidewinder going around a corner. Nose angle is most critical. For a straight flight use a little nose up or more height. For a turn throw flat hard. For a fast turn pull the nose down through the snap. Spin is irrelevant except than it tends to pull the nose down with wrist extending open.

Okay, I'll try that Dave. I think i tend to over-compensate worrying if i throw very hard it will flip too soon -- i may be getting the nose up more than i think (muscle memory from throwing lids). I have heard that a lot of spin tends to keep a disc from flipping and that seems to be my experience. Doesn't a lot of spin create a gyroscope like effect that holds the disc in a given orientation?

i thought about it some more and i guess that's what you're saying. spin isn't an issue because if i get the nose angle right spin will just hold the angle i give it (?)

more spin actually causes the disc to flip more, i think

i know you've probably answered this dave, but what does cause a disc to flip?

more spin actually causes the disc to flip more, i think

i know you've probably answered this dave, but what does cause a disc to flip?



I'm not Dave, but I know off axis spin, torque, will cause turbulance and make discs less stable than they should be.

off axis torque will cause a disc to turn over. Spin is usually associated with higher speeds and higher speeds can turn a disc over. Spin per se will not turn a disc over. Spin does stabilize a disc and a higher spin could arguably slow the rate of turn, but spin is mostly irrelevant on high speed shots. It is relevant on putts and short approaches as there may be insufficient spin to slow the rate of aerodynamic turn. Aerodynamic turn is what you see at high and low speeds, and is one of the four things we rate on our disc flight charts. Other than strange winds and off axis torque, the only thing that makes a disc turn is the disc's characteristic combined with the nose angle and speed. The slower the speed, the more likely a disc will fade, the higher the speed, the more likely a disc will turn over. That being said, there are ways to manipulate how any disc flies, up to a point. A completely flippy disc can fly stable to overstable if it is thrown slowly with nose up. A very overstable disc can become unstable at very high speeds. Nose down, down hill off a mountain such that the disc gains speed going down can do it.

DAve,

I'm broke. Could you maybe make some 11X rocs and putt an 8X stamp on it for me?


THat would roc ( yes, pun intended)

Sorry. No can do.

I tried.

I tried.



Should ask Dave for Glow plastic , resembling the old Night Flyers or Midnight Flyers !!!!!! Rocs and Aviars !!!!! :eek:

Ya know , the ones with the golf numbers on them!!!!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Worth a try /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dave,

I've played three rounds with a Classic Roc, and it does appear to have more turnover resistance and a little more fade than a Spider. Are the Pro Classic Rocs made from the retooled Classic Roc mold so that they also will be 0/+2ish, or like other Pro models are they less turnover resistant?

Thanks.

Hawk, the latest run of Classic Rocs is the retooled mold, but I don't think we have run Pros since the retool. That being said, we will when stock dictates. The analogy from Champion to Pro only works for drivers. Pro mids and putters might even be more stable than their candy conterparts. We use the same configuration for putters and mids when we run Pro. We use L configurations for drivers as they take the abuse more and get the added benefit of more glide, though they lose some high speed stability.

Loving the Coyote Dave. Thanks.

Does Innova make black dx discs?

Yes. They seem to be more rare (compared to other colors) though. I've seen black rocs and aviars.

asimo, yes we do, but we try to keep it to a minimum as black is a strange color for popularity. Most places don't like it as it is hard to find and makes the disc soft in the sun. Other places love black. Hard to figure.

asimo, yes we do, but we try to keep it to a minimum as black is a strange color for popularity. Most places don't like it as it is hard to find and makes the disc soft in the sun. Other places love black. Hard to figure.



kind of like how some people have 5 green discs and cant figure out why i complain when we are looking for them... again

: ) :

oooh...pink or purple JK Aviars would be heavenly. If you make those I just may end up in the poor house!

oooh...pink or purple JK Aviars would be heavenly. If you make those I just may end up in the poor house!



I've tried white proto stamp, white, yellow, blue, and orange 3x's 4x's and 5x's trying to find that magic JK Aviar-x color, and I'm almost broke :D I'd vote for purple, but i think practice may be the more practical solution :D

<font color="blue"> </font> "We use the same configuration for putters and mids when we run Pro. We use L configurations for drivers as they take the abuse more and get the added benefit of more glide, though they lose some high speed stability."

Dave, I really like the Pro Starfires and TeeBird-L's that I have. In spite of some wicked tree hits they have held up fairly well. I am not aware of an 'L' version for the Valkyrie. Can you differentiate this disk from the DX and Champion regarding high and low speed stability. I really liked the old SE's as they seemed to have the same low speed stability and had a slightly higher turn resistance than the new DX.

Thanks in advance for your reply. <font color="black"> </font>

Rob, I was just talking the pretty factor. I have decided that a bag full of purple and pink discs would obviously make me a better player just on the level of prettiness. :D

Rob, I was just talking the pretty factor. I have decided that a bag full of purple and pink discs would obviously make me a better player just on the level of prettiness. :D



Another Bixby suspect??? :eek:

Bixby suspect?

Search user name Bixby within the last year.

bigtom, the Valkyrie has the same configuration for Pro as it does for DX and Champion. The flight of the latest Pro seems to have about the same high speed stability, maybe a little less overstability low speed, and definitely more glide.

How about it Dave? Pink JK Aviars?

(That Bixby guy...what a crack-up...we need him back, wherever he is)

We've had bubble gum pink Aviars before......so..... maybe.

i'd buy those!

I would sell the farm, kidneys, advertising space on my huge head...whatever it takes to get pink JK Aviars

We've had bubble gum pink Aviars before......so..... maybe.



What.........Bubble Gum , Pink JK Aviar X's ?

I'll take two at 175 grams. :D

What is the exact relationship between Millennium and Innova?

Innova designs and manufactures discs for Millennium.

Dave,
oooh, a millenium question. while we are on the topic:

I recentally picked up an Xout Raven that appears to be run in the millenium plastic, but there seems to be no other defects with the disc. SO i guess i have a 2 part question; first, have you ever run any of the Innova molds in Millenium plastic? And secondly, would this result in the disc being sold as an xout?
Thanks!

discCecht, we did do a trial run of Pro Ravens. They were not marketed for long. Yes, it could have resulted in the disc being sold as an X Out.

What is the difference between Innova pro plastic and Millennium's plastic?

Does Innova own Millennium? If so, what is the point?

Dave,
Is there any chance of Rhynos ever being run in the later run SE mold again? The smooth stiffer SE discs seemed flatter and possibly a touch larger than the current DX, champion, or pro discs (I could be imagining things). I guess part two of this question would be is there any chance for stiffer pro rhynos? Thanks for your time

asimo, there is very little difference between Pro and Millennium at this point. Millennium is not owned by Innova.

Hoeslaw, there were two different stiffnesses in the last run of Pro, but both were fairly soft. Pro Rhynos are supposed to be fairly soft and durable. The only other variations are DX, which is stiffer, and Candy, which is also a little stiffer. There have been two different molds used, but they are both the same diameter. Any differences in size would have to be related to the plastic used.

Hey Dave .............

Anything new on the horizon ?

Which, if any, Innova mold is most similar to a Discraft Talon?

I recommend going on the Discraft thread and asking which Innova mold the Talon tried to copy :o

will do!

I recommend going on the Discraft thread and asking which Innova mold the Talon tried to copy :o



Which do you think it is, Robj, and why?

I haven't thrown a Talon, but Innovas disc specs and flight charts do a nice job of explaining what their discs do. I wonder if Dave has thrown or picked up a Talon? Dave, do you pay much attention to the discs of your competitors?

Donny, yes, but we don't have time to do anything right now. Probably two discs. One long range and one roller specific.

robj, no, I don't need to. If there was a design standard issue, I would.

I thought the Talon was a Eagle copy, but I could be wrong. They fly similar.

I was. Keith says Teebird-ish.

Speaking of Eagles, Dave, I've noticed alot of the top pros around this area use eagles. for me an eagle seems to be a pretty stable disc that doesn't seem to get a whole lot of glide and has alot of fade. but if i watch gawler or zink throw them, they fly forever. What is the deal with eagles? are they more or less stable than tbirds? maybe it's just they way i throw them?

Dr Evil, an Eagle is slightly less high speed stable and slightly more low speed overstable than a TeeBird. The TeeBird has more glide and the Eagle has more speed. There are variations of both the Eagle and TeeBird. The Eagle L was the original version which had a little more high speed turn and more glide.

I'm a big fan of the sidewinder. I don't have a lot of power yet and it goes straight, any special molds or dies coming out soon.

Sorry if this has already been asked.

hey, any new albums coming out tenacious? lol

Speaking of Eagles, Dave, I've noticed alot of the top pros around this area use eagles.



You're making me :o

oh, and the bottom pros also...lol

Tenacious D, probably in a month or so. A roller disc similar to the Sidewinder with more turn.

Tenacious D, probably in a month or so. A roller disc similar to the Sidewinder with more turn.



aka: the Roadrunner?

......as a dedicated, ground hugging disc ya couldn't name it anything else. Could you? :D

Tenacious D, probably in a month or so. A roller disc similar to the Sidewinder with more turn.



aka: the Roadrunner?



If you will only create a special stamped JK Aviar-x that says "ACME Putter" i will be very tempted to start throwing a Roadrunner for my drive, a Coyote for my approach, and an ACME Putter for the finish :D

(wasn't ACME the company the wily coyote tended to use?)

[
(wasn't ACME the company the wily coyote tended to use?)

[/QUOTE]

Yup. Wiley Coyote, while slow and somewhat dull was very loyal. Acme was his "Crate and Barrel". :)

si

Donny, yes, but we don't have time to do anything right now. Probably two discs. One long range and one roller specific.



Very Cool Dave................as always , thanks for your time.
I know how busy you guys are.

A Specific Roller sound's very interesting. I don't think anyone else ( Yet ) has a specific roller disc.

I did find , recently , a 161 gram Champion Whippet.
AWESOME !!!!!! I can flick it and it holds it's stability !!!!!! :D

A Specific Roller sound's very interesting. I don't think anyone else ( Yet ) has a specific roller disc.



You mean Lightnings # 2 Roller wasnt for rolling???

Dave,

Has the Spider mold been tweaked? When Innova adjusted the flight ratings the Spider went from being a 0/+1 (like the Shark was rated) to a -1/+1 while the Shark went to 0/+2. Also in conversation, and other older disc ratings out there the Spider is always described as being similar to the Roc. Some people even describe it as being more resistant to turn with more fade i.e more overstable than a Roc.

Thanks.

A Specific Roller sound's very interesting. I don't think anyone else ( Yet ) has a specific roller disc.



You mean Lightnings # 2 Roller wasnt for rolling???





No, neither was the No.1 Roller.

A Specific Roller sound's very interesting. I don't think anyone else ( Yet ) has a specific roller disc.



You mean Lightnings # 2 Roller wasnt for rolling???





No, neither was the No.1 Roller.



I actually used to roll lightning disc's , years ago.
The plastic beat up way to fast. They did flip good from the get go, though.

No............What I'm talking about is some kind of Disc , you can depend on.

Not a piece of Flip Art. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Innova makes the Original Best Golf Disc's.

If anyone can make a SPECIFIC Golf Disc , Innova will be the First.
Others come second. Check History. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

His name was Wile E. Coyote. I should know, I wrote a college entrance exam for someone I most admire.... come to think of it, I think they waitlisted me.... :eek:

If anyone can make a SPECIFIC Golf Disc , Innova will be the First. Others come second. Check History. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Innova innovates and disc golf is their main focus. That's a test Discraft doesn't do as well on :eek:

Hawk, no neither mold has been tweaked, but things just happen. The Shark mold has gotten slightly more stable over time. The Spider was always just understable so it was just numbered differently.

even my dx spiders feel very nuetral, like a roc/aviar combo. i for one do not feel they have much turn. i would say 4 speed 3.5 glide 0 hi turn 1 low fade. only my opinion, but i have been throwing them for a while and they are pretty much all i throw under 325.

Dave, as for a "specific roller disc" everyone up here in Vancouver is raving about 'the maximizer' have you ever tried it out as a roller? and is there a chance it could be run in better plastic?

thanks

jaymo, no I have not tried the maximizer. But I did try the optimizer. Quite flippy. I believe we have distributed some of them, but we don't make them.

Optimizer and Maximizer are silly Canadian discs in a funny plastic blend...

Gotta love those wacky Canadians!

I'll bet the Ontario Stingray in Proline plastic would be as sweet a roller as the DGA #3. Any plans to bring either Stingray mold out in Pro plastic?

hey dave,
do you guys give tours of the factory cause i live in southern California and my dad and i were thinking about taking a tour because we love golfing and tours of factories.

irban, it is a possibility. If we do it will be with the Ontario Stingray. The San Marino doesn't mold well in Pro or Candy.

Sandy, sorry, no we don't.

dave, which stingray mold has the slightly more rounded bottom lip? one of them is really sharp, and i don't like that one. i lost the one i liked so i don't know which it was now.

dr Evil, the Ontario has a rounder nose, but I think the bottom is about the same on both.

Hi Dave. I was wondering what info you can give me on the Jaguar, other than the fact that it is HUGE. I picked up some football stamp versions that seem a little different in flight than the regular "Jag" stamp. Thank you Sir.

Chase, the Jaguar has never been tweaked. The plastic has changed some from run to run, but the Jaguar has always been a high gliding, turning, medium speed flyer. This disc has been a favorite of older guys who can handle the weight, but can't get a real quick snap. The Jaguar maxis out distance on rollers and air shots for guys who don't have a fast throw. We don't carry these in our regular inventory, but we try to keep some in stock for special requests from guys like Stancil Johnson, who throws them.

Dave what is for breakfast?

must start by saying I love innova discs.. quick question about the Gremlin DX... just wondered the reasoning for discontinuing it and any talk of something similiar coming around in style. Or maybe a suggestion on the next closest in style. I still have 3 left and are easily my favorite mid range. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Zack

Thanks Dave.

tour de france

Zack, we have been thinking of running a short run of Champion Gremlins, but haven't had an opportunity yet. The closest disc to it is probably the Shark which is slower, or the Gazelle, which is faster. The Gator has similar numbers but has less carry and more overstability.

how about a dx whippet(not whippetx), it seems to be very similar to a gremlin.

Thank you for the input... I think I'll give the shark a try, personally with speedy discs I tend to over shoot a bit.

Much appreciated!
Zack :D

irban, it is a possibility. If we do it will be with the Ontario Stingray. The San Marino doesn't mold well in Pro or Candy.



hey dave, just to second the notion for a pro stingray... i would freak out if innova started making them. i prefer dx stingrays to champion... but they do get too beat in eventually. i love the proline plastic! pro ontario's would be the BEST!
were champion stingrays discontinued because the san marino mold wasn't working right with the plastic?

sinchrosystem, yes there was approximately a %50 reject rate for candy San Marino Stingrays. Unacceptable.

sinchrosystem, yes there was approximately a %50 reject rate for candy San Marino Stingrays. Unacceptable.



REGRIND :D:D

Any word on the Aviar X, in gumby bubble gum pink ?

Any word on the Aviar X, in gumby bubble gum pink ?



word...sign me up for twenty at 174-175

Yellow, Blue, but no pink.......yet.

how about a dx whippet(not whippetx), it seems to be very similar to a gremlin.


Hey Dave. I have seen a few comments now about a Whippet X. Is there such a thing? I thought the abbreviation for the whippet was WX, leading people to believe there was a Whippet-X but what do I know. The only one I have is one of the 4000 Champ WX and that's on the wall unthrown. I had a DX one that I found but have since found the original owner and given it back so I have no idea what is on them.

Joe, there is a Whippet-X. The designation WX is for Whippet X only, not regular Whippets.

there was approximately a %50 reject rate for candy San Marino Stingrays. Unacceptable.



so wouldnt that make the disc very rare? I bought one not a month ago. Champion San Marino Stingray for 12$ online. and i believe it was just one of many he had...

It will be rare. No more to come. Not that many good ones left. There were a lot of rejects.

As far as I know there is no one else to ask about Millennium discs, so here goes. Are there any plans for making the Orion LS in champ grade plastic? I love the disc but it gets beat up super fast. I have had mine for a week and its already my most flippy disc.

Asimo, you may have stumbled upon your best roller disc

I haven't had that problem and I throw mine alot and have had it for a month.

asimo, we are definitely thinking about it. From my point of view, the JLS and the OLS are the two Millenium discs that would be most worthy.

isnt the QJLS still made? thats just a Champion JLS is it not? I have one rioght next to me, but i couldnt tell ya how old it is.

The QJLS is a great disc. The Orion goes a tad farther for me, maybe a little more glide as well.

Hey Dave,

what are your top 10 favorite discs? Or which ten discs are you most proud of since you created the Eagle?

And is there one that was the biggest disappointment? Maybe one that just didn't turn out the way you expected or wanted?

I'm guessing Aero, Aviar, and Roc are on the list but what else?

Thanks and keep up the good work,

Doug

dave , i am trying to figure out what run a ce valk of mine is. I got it at national dubs in 01 , not sure if it matters but its blue!! My guess would be 2nd run but i am no guru in establishing run ##s!!

Another CE ? I picked up a near new CE Leopard yesterday and was wondering what run it is. It is clear blue with a white hotstamp? any ideas?

If its FLAT as hell, its a second run, otherwise Im not good with runs of CE Valks either.

dave , i am trying to figure out what run a ce valk of mine is. I got it at national dubs in 01 , not sure if it matters but its blue!! My guess would be 2nd run but i am no guru in establishing run ##s!!




Is it Blueberry? Or just a blue Valk?

Another CE ? I picked up a near new CE Leopard yesterday and was wondering what run it is. It is clear blue with a white hotstamp? any ideas?



If its clear, its a later run. I think through the 3rd they were still opaque.

Glow Champion Orcs ?

Joe, there is a Whippet-X. The designation WX is for Whippet X only, not regular Whippets.


Is there both W and WX in champion plastic,if so what will the difference be between the two?

Are Glow Champion Orc's just fundraiser's ?

Joe, there is a Whippet-X. The designation WX is for Whippet X only, not regular Whippets.


Is there both W and WX in champion plastic,if so what will the difference be between the two?



Whippet X is the new stuff. I like my Champion Whippet X , 161grams !!!!! :eek:

No Stability differences between the two?

No. Both are pretty overstable. I have both. Hardly any noticable difference.

Are Glow Champion Orc's just fundraiser's ?




Yes for now. Arent all Champion Whippets WX? There was only run and they all say WX.

i think i remember dave saying they were.

Dave, please suggest to the folks at Millenium they ought to order Quantum Orions (down to 160g!)! Yeah baby, these will rock!

PS. I got a 160 Sidewider, custom stamp from Zone Driven ... man ... what a great disc!

The very last run of CE was the clear stuff, all prior runs were opaque...so your leopard is of the last run.

On the '01 Dubs CE Valk look for flashing around the edge and visible concentric circles all over the top, these characteristics put it in the first to third run. Second runs are obvious because they were the super-overstable flat-tops. Also if its a pastel shade of blue than it's definately a fourth run (or "taffy" plastic). If you need any further help we will need to see a picture :D

The very last run of CE was the clear stuff, all prior runs were opaque.

Mostly, but not entirely, true: I've never seen or heard of clear CE discs in the retail channel prior to the final run, but a member of Team Champion hooked me up with a couple of clear second run 150-class FLs in 2001, at a time when distributors were still limited to 50 CE discs/model/order, and even then, most of the time, CE was only available on backorder.

How Overstable is a Champion Whippit compared to a Firebird or Monster.Is this the most overstable disc Innova makes?

More stable, yes... but also a much shorter distance disc, I consider the Champion Whippet to be a strictly midrange and/or cut roller disc

This question is for Mr. Dave.

I'm new to the sport & one of my first discs was a Moray.
I love the understableness of this disc and use it for right turning dogleg shots.
Mulitple contacts with trees ( ) is taking it's toll on the disc.

I see you don't make them anymore. Can you give me the "ratings" the disc had from the factory? (you know, speed/glide/turn/fade)
Also, if you had to recommend a replacement with an available disc, what would it be?
(p.s. I like the shallow rim on the moray)

Thanks

More stable, yes... but also a much shorter distance disc, I consider the Champion Whippet to be a strictly midrange and/or cut roller disc



The Champion Whippet's cousin is the Champion Gator.

Get those both in max weight and turnover is No longer an Issue. :D

If you still have an Issue , I have a Tissue. ( Austin Powers : Goldmember)

the discs distance really isnt an issue,it will be strictly a utility disc.I just need something for a hole shaped like a "7" where I can get a good hook to the left at the end RHBH. I have pretty good snap so this has been a problem lately on a few certain holes with the disc going to straight to long.

WOw!! Those must be some extremely valuable discs by now, thanks for the info, I never came in contact with any of 'em and had no idea as to their existence. I think for run designation guesses though you won't see too many more of them out there so it still should be safe to assume that a clear CE disc is of the last run? I guess it's also safe to assume that their light weight had to do with their translucency? :confused:

The very last run of CE was the clear stuff, all prior runs were opaque...so your leopard is of the last run.

On the '01 Dubs CE Valk look for flashing around the edge and visible concentric circles all over the top, these characteristics put it in the first to third run. Second runs are obvious because they were the super-overstable flat-tops. Also if its a pastel shade of blue than it's definately a fourth run (or "taffy" plastic). If you need any further help we will need to see a picture :D


yes on the flashing and yes on the concentric circles and definately flat top!! :Dmust be second run huh?? Also a little bonus , it is signed by the first and second place teams: stokely , russell,todd,young!!

Des Reading Sidewinder???

jgarcia, the QJLS is still being made in a similar plastic to Champion.

Disc_Doug, usually my favorites are the discs I am currently playing with, but the Aero, Aviar, and Roc are on the list even though I am currently only using the Aviar of the three. From there, the Gazelle, Rhyno, FireBird, Champion Leopard, TeeBird, Viking, Valkyrie, Sidewinder, and Starfire. The biggest disappointment was probably the original Ace, which was molded poorly.

esalazar, blue could be first, second or third. If it is flat, it is probably second. If it is a dark clear blueberry, it is first.

Old Tyme, the Moray was one of the first X type discs. It was a Stingray X and was considerably more stable than the Stingray when new. It flew most similarly to a mix of a Roc and Cobra. It has the speed of a Cobra and the flight character of a Roc or Shark I believe.

hey dave--i thought i read that you said the shark mold has gotten more [over]stable with time. i was wondering if you felt the same way about the teebird. it seems to me the dx tees have gotten more overstable over the years. maybe i'm getting old---what do you think?

Thanks Dave, those are all great discs. Particular favorites of mine that I have really liked are :

1. Orc - 159 gram that was the best driver I ever had. Threw it in a fir tree in Huntsville on the new course up there. Bought a new one the next week that was slightly heavier and its not quite the same. Still practicing with it.

2. Spider - great approach disc

3. Cobra - great stable mid range.

4. Aviar of course

5. Sidewinder and/or Viking

Keep up the good work Dave.

By the way, did you enjoy the Worlds? It seemed like one of the most competitive Worlds ever. What did you think?

Doug

Dave,

With throws being equal, would a DX midrange fly further than it's Pro or Champion counterpart? I've read elsewhere people stating the DX plastic will fly/glide further.

Thanks,

steven, I don't believe the TeeBird has gotten more overstable, but the particular batch of dx plastic you got with your TeeBird might have made it a little more overstable to start. DX plastic is generally a little more overstable to start with drivers. The Shark mold, on the other hand, not only is more stable in DX, but is more stable in Champion too.

Doug, I did enjoy the area and the players there. The courses were very attractive, but not my cup of tea, except for Lehigh. Lehigh was very good. I was not a happy camper as I couldn't hit a putt outside of 20 ft the whole time. My driving got better every round, but that's not enough when you have to plant a drive right next to the basket to make the putt.

Hey Dave,
Wondering what the best MTA disc would be? I seem to remember the Condor or a MTA Roc. And what weight is "ideal" for MTA? Do you know any online retailers that might carry an MTA condor or Roc? Thank you again for your time Dave!

Eric

Hawk, that's a tough question to answer definitively. If you asked about drivers, I would say Pro goes farther. Mid range is a toss up. I would image DX would generally give the best performance as the grip is the best and therefore would be launched generally faster. I don't think the glide is much different between the plastics in mid range.

eric, we have the Condor in the 130s, and Rocs at about 113gms. Both work well for MTA. I prefer the Condor as it is more consistent. Discovering the World and Discgolfvalues.com should have them as well as Wrightlife and maybe Zonedriven.

As always, thanks Dave!

Do we know who won the CFR Drawing for July yet :confused: I havent seen it posted on Innova Web Site :D

Chain Chinger, Jeremy Hornbeck won the Mini Discatcher, Sheldon Parker won the Innova Merch Pack, Peter Winston won the 2005 USDGC Partner Pack, Charles Parsons won the Innova PC Game, Don Olow won an autograhped disc, and Tricia Dunston won the USDGC Video. I am told that the drawing for the USDGC sponsor exemption is this month.

A Big Thanks Dave :D

Hey Dave,
Sorry if this has been brought up recently. I've seen a few black special blend 2005 champion rocs around. Innova didn't release a total for these... any idea how many were produced? Or are these all just dyed? Thanks again Dave.

eric, the Special Blend doesn't come in black. I don't know what they were, but they could have been Pro. If they were USDGC, they could have been candy. The special blend were red or blue. They might have been a special batch for trophies, but I don't recall any.

Des Disc (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=416998&amp;Main=416637#Post41 6998)

I just wanted to pass this link on to you Dave. It is getting allot of feedback for sure.

Aside my question is why hasn't there been a Des disc?

Im pretty sure there were 4 purple ones, the rest red n blue according to the report (now if i can just find it).

Yes, that's what I thought. But I've seen a couple on ebay. Just wondering if they were dyed or some rare SB that was given out in limited quanities and not to the general public. Just curious. Thanks for the input!

The purple SBs would be the rarest of those. They were the color transitions from red to blue or vice versa.

dave, have the numbers changed any for the new 2 time Beast?I have to say the wing of the disc looks quite different and was wondering how it will fly.

CE, I don't think the numbers will change. The high speed is still -l. It is possible the low speed fade will go from 3 to 2, but I haven't seen a need to change it yet. We changed the configuration to make the Beast a little more friendly for lower speed throwers and to give it more durability in Pro and DX.

when did you change the Beast mold? i really like champion beasts i've been getting lately so i hope they're the new mold.

if it holds the line and does not flip over drastically it is the new mold 2x world champion

The latest Beast run was the new type. It has a straighter lower outer edge.

This is for Dave or anyone who knows- What is the difference in the runs of CE Eagles? I just got some and was curious as to what run they were. Thanks.

Luke we have switched back to the original Eagle which is an L type. The X type resembles a TeeBird rather than a TeeBird L, which resembles the original Eagle.

Original is in 1983?

hey dave-- are the newest dx beasts the 2x mold as well? if so, how do they differ flight-wise from the previous dx? thanks

Steve, no. Original, as in candy generation Eagle.

Steven, yes. I believe that run was going while I was away at Worlds. I have not tested them personally yet, as I have been testing a new disc. That being said, the new DX Beasts should be straighter flying, have more carry, than the originals, and theoretically take damage better.

Hey Dave,
Could you explain the difference in CFR starfire molds? I heard that there are 3 and that they are all of varying stability. I really want to get one of these and the stability would affect my choice.

Ranger, the initial Starfire, was hard to throw on a flat line, but would hyzer and turnover long. The current Starfire has an edge more like a TeeBird and has a flight character similar to a TeeBird, but longer and faster. The Starfire L has an edge similar to a TeeBird L, and flies with less stability and glides longer. The Starfire L is used for the CFR SL and the Pro Starfire. The Starfire X (second version) is now the regular CFR Starfire.

Dave,
I am trying to figure out how to distinguish all the different CE Teebird (particularly TL) runs. I've heard some runs are particularly flat or domey or came in unique color/stamp configurations. So how do you tell a 1st run from a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc?
Thanks for your time!
zengoof

zengoof, the only thing I can tell you here is that the earliest runs had a sharp edge of flashing on them and were more opaque than later runs. The domeyness varies from run to run, as does the exact stiffness. The earliest TLs were an opaque red with flashing. The hotstamp on the disc might tell you something. KC Pro TeeBirds are a few years older than the current Champion Tees. CE Tees are the oldest.

Hi Dave D. Hope all is well in Rancho.

I am in need of a little assistance. I am starting throw discs a little and need some advice. I am looking for a couple of new long distance drivers one slightly overstable and one slightly understable and the newest rolling disc. When I left the best disc in the game was the T-Lite and the roller, well the old san marino stingray. I need more length. I threw the T-lite at 169 and with the wind was fairly good but into was too flippy. I would like know what i need to get my bag up to date. I tried something called a starfire? and it seems to go far on the ground, is this a preferred roller or do i need something different. Any help would be much appreciated.

Please pass my email michael@tbxhome.com to S.F.
Thanks for the Help

Michael Sullivan.

what up Dave,
are the new champion T and TB teebirds different?
really miss the KC 11X time stamp :(

1ab

Hey Dave. ICould you please explain the Rhynos to me. I have a DX that I love, but am thinking about trying the other plastics.

Is the champion plasic soft for the rhyno? I have read on the web that it is soft and that it was like regular champ discs. Also I have read about the "new" rhyno. What is that all about?

Please tell me you didn't change the mold, I really like mine.

Hi Mike, we have several longer distance rollers than the Stingray. The most reliable is the Leopard. The longest is the Sidewinder. We are coming out with a Roadrunner fairly soon that will be a roller specific disc. As for slightly overstable and slightly understable long range drivers, there's quite a few. My two favorite slightly understable drivers are the Viking, and Starfire L. The Starfire L is a good power roller, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who can't throw 400 ft. My two favorite slightly overstable drivers are the TeeBird and Starfire (newer type). We are coming out with a new driver which may take the place of one of the Starfires for me. The Pro Wraith. The Wraith is slightly overstable and will outdistance anything.

1ab the T or TB mean the same thing

Ranger, the Rhyno comes in DX, Pro, and Taffy candy. The Pro is soft, grippy and durable. The Candy type is soft taffy candy. The Pro and Candy are slightly less stable than the DX. The Rhyno hasn't been changed.

The Wraith - in a limited release, shadowy charcoal silver Pro Plastic, with tattered flashing remnants of course........... :cool:

We are coming out with a new driver which may take the place of one of the Starfires for me. The Pro Wraith. The Wraith is slightly overstable and will outdistance anything.



Will the first run have a star stamp? :D
i hope the Wraith is haunted by the dead spirit of the Pro Orc, because that baby took me places I'd never been. Will the Wraith be good into the wind?

I'm thinking in good hands it may go a half Kilometer :D

Robj, I believe we are going to make a limited run of Champion Wraiths with the star stamp. Not sure about the Pro Wraith's stamp at this time. I am not sure if you want me to compare the Pro Orc and Pro Wraith into the wind, but if you do, the Pro Wraith is way better both in terms of distance and accuracy into the wind. We have not thrown it into winds higher than about 15 mph yet. Testing has been going on for a week, and so far so good. The Champion Version is way good into the wind.

Dave,
Is the Wraith going to be CFR or regular Champion? I can't wait to see it. Thanks.

sounds great Dave. I used to be good at throwing Ultimate pulls into high head winds, so i am sure the Wraith will work fine for me into the wind. I carry mainly Ch. and Pro Orcs, one Pro Starfire, one beat CE Valk, and one Ch. Sidwinder, so the Wraith will probably fit in nicely if it is a bit more stable than an Orc. I carry a Pro Firebird or Ch. Monster -- but never seem to use them...

i also plan to experiment with the new 2x Beast...

CBlay, we haven't made up our mind about the disposition of the Candy version. It is not slated to be a regular production candy disc though. It will either be limited edition or CFR.

robj, the Pro Wraith is a bit more stable than the Champion Orc. The Champion Wraith is a bit more stable than the Pro Wraith.

that's great news -- thanks Dave

dave-- to what do you attribute the wraith being so long? if it is more stable [i assume you mean more overstable] than the champ orc, how is it longer? i tend to get more d with slightly understable discs that can be thrown with hyzer and flatten with little fade [pro starfire, dx beast]. thanks

My two favorite slightly understable drivers are the Viking, and Starfire L.



Hi, Dave. I liked seeing that the Viking is a favorite of yours. It's my primary driver but I don't see very many others throwing it.

Do you have any stats of Innova's best selling drivers? Where does the Viking fall in those rankings?

Thanks,
Lou

steven, the Wraith is not a hyzer flip disc unless you are a 500 ft thrower. It is more high speed stable than an Orc, and about the same on low speed overstability. The Pro Starfire is much easier to get distance with a hyzer flip type throw. The Wraith has to be thrown with a slight anny. It gets its distance from a combination of speed and glide.

Lou, our best selling drivers are Valks, Orcs, Beasts, Sidewinder, Pro Starfires. The Champion Viking is not even on the list. It is definitely our most underrated long range driver.

Lou, our best selling drivers are Valks, Orcs, Beasts, Sidewinder, Pro Starfires. The Champion Viking is not even on the list. It is definitely our most underrated long range driver.



Just don't go discontinuing it!

Ranger, the Rhyno comes in DX, Pro, and Taffy candy. The Pro is soft, grippy and durable. The Candy type is soft taffy candy. The Pro and Candy are slightly less stable than the DX. The Rhyno hasn't been changed.



Dave, What is the difference in the rare gummy champ rhynos and the standard champ rhynos that I have seen on Ebay?

Also the viking is one of my favorites, better flight and more prdicable then the valk IMO.

Scott, not a chance of discontinuing it. It is one of only three drivers that has consistently been in my bag for the last few years. The Champion Leopard and the Champion TeeBird are the other two. The Valks were replaced by the Sidewinder. The Beast and Orcs were replaced by the Starfires. The Wraith is going to replace a Starfire or two, but not the Viking. It stays.

Ranger, the only difference is the amount of Taffy in the mix. Clear would be total Taffy. Pearlescent is a mix. Pure Taffy is gummier and molds up a little flatter and a little less high speed stable.

Dave, what does your bag look like now? What discs are you carrying and how many? Do you have an idea of how it will change when the Wraith comes out? (I already saw that one or two Starfires may be out)

djalizwan, my bag currently has 2 JK Aviars, 2 Coyotes, 1 Ch. Leopard, 2 Sidewinders, 1 Ch. Viking, 1 Ch TeeBird, 2 CFR Starfire Ls, 1 Starfire. I will most likely trade the Starfire and one of the SLs for 2 Pro Wraiths. That will depend on how durable they are.

CBlay, we haven't made up our mind about the disposition of the Candy version. It is not slated to be a regular production candy disc though. It will either be limited edition or CFR.



Ya know, Ive been an innova guy since the start but I dont get this.... Put it out in regular production please....

I can understand the concept of CFRs but if its a new mold, make it available to all, Im lost on this one....

Hey Dave, Bobby Benner here. Just wondering how the Vipers of today are compared to when I was playing alot (mid 90's)? I can not find a disc that I like as much as I did the Vipers. I have tried firebirds, just to fast for my liking, but great disc. The teebirds are awesome, but you know Morley Field, they are to fast and fly way to far for what I need out there. Man, I need to move to La Mirada where I can start bombing on everything again.

Scott, not a chance of discontinuing it. It is one of only three drivers that has consistently been in my bag for the last few years. The Champion Leopard and the Champion TeeBird are the other two. The Valks were replaced by the Sidewinder. The Beast and Orcs were replaced by the Starfires. The Wraith is going to replace a Starfire or two, but not the Viking. It stays.



well please change the name then, to something like the FARVE or cheese sledge or for a new super stable driver call it the "COW".
come on man

1ab

djalizwan, my bag currently has 2 JK Aviars, 2 Coyotes, 1 Ch. Leopard, 2 Sidewinders, 1 Ch. Viking, 1 Ch TeeBird, 2 CFR Starfire Ls, 1 Starfire. I will most likely trade the Starfire and one of the SLs for 2 Pro Wraiths. That will depend on how durable they are.



Dave, which discs do you prefer for low ceiling drives (drives that need to stay low and get good distance)?

djalizwan, my bag currently has 2 JK Aviars, 2 Coyotes, 1 Ch. Leopard, 2 Sidewinders, 1 Ch. Viking, 1 Ch TeeBird, 2 CFR Starfire Ls, 1 Starfire. I will most likely trade the Starfire and one of the SLs for 2 Pro Wraiths. That will depend on how durable they are.



No Roc???

Scott, not a chance of discontinuing it. It is one of only three drivers that has consistently been in my bag for the last few years. The Champion Leopard and the Champion TeeBird are the other two. The Valks were replaced by the Sidewinder. The Beast and Orcs were replaced by the Starfires. The Wraith is going to replace a Starfire or two, but not the Viking. It stays.



well please change the name then, to something like the FARVE or cheese sledge or for a new super stable driver call it the "COW".
come on man

1ab



I have no idea what that means... but it's FAVRE...

If there was to ever be a disc named a cow...I would buy a lot of them

Hi Bobby The Vipers of today are slow in comparison to TeeBirds, et al. The are just as overstable and forgiving as they used to be. They are in the "Fairway Driver" catagory instead of "Distance Driver". Our Banshee would be closer to it than the Firebird. You might want to try a Gator. It's about as stable, but slower than a Viper.

robj, I like my Sidewinder for low ceiling shots because it glides so well and I can get good distance without really cranking it. That being said, depending on the type of fairway, I would also think about this new Wriath. It gets killer distance 3 to 5 feet off the ground. Problem with it would be a narrow low fairway. The Wraith finishes left harder than the Sidewinder.

scoob, yes, no Roc.

" The Wraith "

Big fan of Stargate Atlantis are we Dave?

:cool:

Disc_Doug, I am a bigger fan of the original Stargate SG1, but yes, I like Atlantis too. However the Wraith name was on our list long before Atlantis came along. It did help put it over the top though.

"Wraith" was in the supernatural lexicon before Stargate and even before Tolkien, I'll bet. ;)

Any eta on the release of the Wraith?

Btw, I really like the Coyote! Especially the glows I just got. Awesome disc.

Question: I have a 172 Viking that I have tried. Didn't really do much for me. I usually throw 160-168 Sidewinders, 167-169 Starfires, 175-180 Coyote ... Should I try a lighter Viking? And what shots to you prefer the Viking for?
Question: I've tried the JK Aviar, but the one I got is so floppy I don't feel like I can control it well. Are they all floppy? Is there any way to determine if the disc is from the latest run, which I have heard you say is the best one yet? I'm in a remote area, so I have to order by phone/internet and can't try the disc before buying ... How can I specify I want the latest run JK Aviar?

"Wraith" was in the supernatural lexicon before Stargate and even before Tolkien, I'll bet. ;)

You'd be a winner.

Wraith [also, wrath, wrayth, wraithe, wreath], etym. chiefly Scottish, of obscure origin.

1. an apparition or spectre of a dead person; a phantom or ghost; attes. 1513, Douglas AEneid xi.93 - In diuers placis The wraithis walkis of goistis that are deyd; a 1585, Polwart Flyting w. Mongomerie 638 - Thy speach ... is espyed, That wrytes of witches, warlocks, wraiths, and wratches; b. an immaterial or spectral appearance of a living being, freq. regarded as portending that person's death; a fetch; attes: 1513, Douglas AEneid x.xi.127 - Thydder went this wraith or schaddo of Ene; 1597, Jas. VI, Demonol. These kindes of spirites, when they appeare in the shaddow of a person ... to die, to his friends ... are called Wraithes in our language.

glow coyote????

boneman, eta on the Wraith release is approximately 2 weeks. 172 is a good weight for a Champion Viking. I use the Viking for straight shots in any wind situation. It finishes very straight too for a long range driver. I also throw it sidearm. The chief thing the Viking does is go straight sidearm or backhand. When you don't have a lot of fairway to stay on, you need a disc like a Viking. The latest JK Aviar batch is a little domey compared to every run except the first. The reason I think this run is the best is that these are the straightest fliers from start to finish. Most of the JKs are soft. One run was very soft and part of one run was a little stiffer. Blue too, I think.

I will agree on the JK Aviar comment...I have some Aviars from a slightly harder run. I bought them last year. They feel alot like the Pro Plastic that the drivers and such are in. The newest Aviars I have are straight, grippy and maybe a little bit floppy. I love them for close putts and throw the harder last year Aviars for longer stuff.

Now I am just waiting on the pink JK Aviars :cool:

Hello
This is one of my first post and I am abit uncertain how this post will appear so plese have patience with me.

What kind of disc rating will pro Wraith and Ch Wraith get?

So the Wraith is a ghost then? Then I would deduce that they are prone to disappear before your eyes, especially after long drives off the fairway. :eek:

No really, I bet they will look pretty cool in a glo or see through candy material.

So based on the Lord of the Rings and the Stargate references, can we guess what some upcoming Innova names might be?

Doug

mattias, the Pro and Champion Wraith will probably have the same rating although the Champion will be slightly more high speed stable. It is our first 11 speed disc. The numbers will probably be 11, 5, 0, 3

sure you can guess. We are not going to use Vampire, Visagoth, and probably not Warlock either. Lots of others are still pending though. :) Thor is kinda catchy. Gotta love the Asgard. Cute little guys. The Nox aren't bad either. "comtraya" round of disc golf. As Harlan the android might say.

Gotta love the Asgard.



I would avoid it if I were you. AssGuard! You are just setting yourself up.

Gotta love the Asgard.



I would avoid it if I were you. AssGuard! You are just setting yourself up.



Nice to know some people know what they are talking about, and some don't....a roommate turned me onto SG-1 a little over a year ago

mattias, the Pro and Champion Wraith will probably have the same rating although the Champion will be slightly more high speed stable. It is our first 11 speed disc. The numbers will probably be 11, 5, 0, 3



[warning: if you didn't watch the movie Spinal Tap this won't make much sense, if you did this may make sense]

DiscGolfer1: wow, the Wraith goes up to eleven!
DiscGolfer2: why not recalibrate speeds and call this one 10?
DiscGolfer1: no, you don't understand: this one goes up to eleven! When you want some extra speed to push you over the edge, you pull one of these babies out.

a roommate turned me on a little over a year ago



Sorry about that. I hope she was hot!

.....It is our first 11 speed disc. The numbers will probably be 11, 5, 0, 3



More high speed stable then the Orc, more glide then the Starfire. OOOHHH!

When is it available? (Not that I would need it on my dinker course).

Dave, is there any truth to the notion that soft JK's are harder to throw far than stiff ones? I can get my soft JK Aviars 300 feet and it doesn't seem like stiff ones give me better D, but then again it does seem that the idea that stiffer ones are better for longer shots makes intuitive sense...? :confused:

i like the soft ones for the feel and for their tendency to stop on a dime when they touch down

I have a theory that the softer plastic could absorb a little off-axis torque where the harder plastic would just convey it.

Hello again Dave. I see you are throwing the Coyote. I now have one of these and was wondering what type of shots you are using yours for. Mine has pretty much replaced my my broken in Rocs in my bag. I love it for throwing anything from shorter straight holes, to longer turnover holes. The Roc doesn't feel good in my hand anymore since I broke my thumb years ago, but the Coyote just has a great feel to it. Hopefully more people will try this disc, it is a winner.

a roommate turned me on a little over a year ago



Sorry about that. I hope she was hot!



nice misquoting assguard

Robj, I haven't noticed any difference in distance between soft and stiffer, however it is easier to over torque the very soft ones and produce flutter. That is something to get used to if you have never thrown soft discs hard.

Bobby, I use mine just like I would a beat Roc. Somehow the Roc rim never agreed with me, but the Coyote's does.

Dave, I hope you change your mind on the Visagoth as they would make a great companion disc to the Viking. May I also second your opinion on the Viking? Great straight flyer. I've had a candy one and a regular one that I got from Tom Monroe. Love them.

When do you think we will see a URUK-HAI disc? Kind of the next step from an Orc? (see Lord of the Rings)

Doug

Hey Dave - how about adding a "Favorite Holes" section to the Team/Players page on the Innova website? I dont think it would be too hard to add and would be a cool new feature.

Dave,
I just picked up a pearly, salmon-colored Viking the other day. I love it. You are right that it seems to be an under-appreciated disc. My question is, sometimes it seems the pearly plastic makes discs fly different than the clear or totally opaque. Have you noticed any difference in flights between Vikings?

And again, I have to sing the praises of the newer Pro plastic. This stuff makes me feel better about myself and the world around me. With Pro plastic in my hand, I know it is going to be a great day.

Oh come on a warlock would be a great disc!!! Especially since our disc golf team is the Warlocks!!!

Dave, I recently bought a Champ Gator with a stamp similar to the first Champ Whippets. It is a larger frilly ring with the Innova Swoosh inside. I really like this subtle type stamp with no disc-name stated. Is this a special (read as collector) disc?

Forgive me if this has been asked before, as this equipment section is a category I just can't keep up with!

hi dave --will the wraith have a wider rim than starfire, monster, etc?

flyinhigh, sounds like a good sugguestion. I will pass it on to the guys that maintain the site.

Hi Dave ,

Any news yet on a specific Roller disc , being created ?

I would PAY for a Original CE Red Candy Orc though !!!!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Like the Original Red TL's , Valkeries and FireBirds !!!!!!

That would be like a Super Weapon Driver !!!!!! :D
:D...... http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sport/sport-smiley-003.gif

[/QUOTE] Innova Disc's Rock !!!!!!!!!!!!!

ajones, there is sometimes a difference between the flight character of candy vs pearly, but it is not always in the same direction. Usually, the discs get slightly less high speed stable as more of the gummy stuff is added, but not always. I have not noticed a difference in flights between Vikings but I have not thrown that many. I am still using the original two red max weight discs I got when they first came out.

circle 2, I think that stamp was a limited edition Gator run.

steven, yes, slightly.

Donny, specific roller disc is called the Roadrunner. The Roadrunner run got backed up behind regular production. It will be delayed a few weeks, but I will begin testing next weekend, I think.

Cool !!!!!! Thanks Dave. Will it be a stable or understable roller or will there be different versions ? Just courious ......

I would like to test drive a couple !!!!!!!!

Dave,

Is there any difference in the flight of the 2 time BS Beast compared to the 2003 BS Beast. I picked up 2 of the 2x the other day and I noticed that the 2x is a lot more dommie than the 2003 BS Beast. please send your expertise.

Donny, specific roller disc is called the Roadrunner. The Roadrunner run got backed up behind regular production. It will be delayed a few weeks, but I will begin testing next weekend, I think.



Nice.............I'll have a Road Runner to go with my Coyote !!!!!! :D

Donnie, it will be an understable roller similar to the Sidewinder, but more understable.

atx, yes there is a difference. I think the later version is a little less high speed stable and a little less low speed overstable.

Interesting !!!!! Thanks Dave for the Updated info !!!!!!

so did Innova run out of stock of the 2003 BS Beast, because I sure did like that mold.

Dave, since you are coming out with the "Wraith" in a limted run or CFR (possibly) is there any chance the Starfire might become a regular production disc in Champion Plastic?

Also, why is the plastic different for Pro 11X aviars and Rocs as compared to Pro Valks, Firebirds, etc....?

Well Dave, after 2 more rounds with both my Coyotes, my beat Rocs are out of my bag. The Coyote is the real deal, sweet, SWEET disc. I can make that thing do anything, and the grip is freaking awesome. Once again, well done Dave.

Dave
When determining disc ratings (speed, glide etc.) are max weight discs used for all designs? Or is everything tested at 175 or some other uniform weight? Or does each individual tester throw their preferred weight and a consensus reached across varying weights? I believe you have already said that the ratings are based on a minimum of 400 foot throw. Or at least by 400 foot throwers.
You mentioned that you only had thrown max weight vikings, do you always/mostly throw max weight in all designs &amp; plastics?
And with glow season coming up, will you be increasing the intensity &amp; duration of the effect to match/surpass the gains others have made in the last couple of years?
Thanks
ps I really like the new charts with discs grouped with others of like speed. Nice presentation.

Ill4mation, those two discs were developed for Ken Climo and other Pros who preferred that particular plastic for those discs. Not likely we will make the CFR Starfire regular production in the near future.

fossil, we generally test at max weight. I have 4 or 5 former world champions help me evaluate the discs. The definitive testing is done on a disc golf course, (usually La Mirada or some other course we are familiar with). I usually throw from 172 to max. I have no problem throwing 150 class, but the heavies are much more consistent across differing wind conditions. I don't have any info about glow right now. Sorry.