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20940
Aug 04 2009, 01:01 PM
Matt's approach on the first hole hit the crowd because they where standing in the fairway.First off, I would never hate on Matt O. Watched him since he was a foot shorter than me. (I'm 6'0.) Tremendous talent, great kid. Certainly was pulling for him to make the playoff and certainly expect he'll get his World Title(s) soon. So I hope these accolades are enough to show my respect for the player, but:

Lesson 1 - DO NOT drive the fairway until it is clear.
Not only is this a safety issue, it also helps avoid distraction(see lesson 2). Live and learn.

Lesson 2 - DO NOT putt until the group(or gallery) settles.
Who out there hasn't missed an easy putt because they didn't have the patience to wait until everyone stopped moving? Can't blame that on anyone but the thrower.

If it was a blind shot, the point is moot and there should have been a spotter or someone to verify that the way was clear. Sure, crowd control could be to blame, somewhat. But the onus is on the player to be ready and be sure, or take the blame.

Too bad that happened. It MIGHT have made a difference.

NOHalfFastPull
Aug 04 2009, 01:10 PM
1,000 words worthless.
1 picture
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/roadracerx_photos/DSC01114.jpg

james_mccaine
Aug 04 2009, 01:37 PM
I remember being herded way out by the ropes at the Houston worlds. It really took away from the experience. Don't know what happened and if/how it could have been prevented in this case, but herding folks behind ropes is pretty unnecessary, imo.

rondpit
Aug 04 2009, 01:38 PM
On another note, one thing I don't hear anyone talking about it Matt O. He got royally screwed in the final 9 because no one was there to control the gallery. Matt's approach on the first hole hit the crowd because they where standing in the fairway.

Hmmm... I guess that is one way to look at it.

I was standing on that hill. And yes, there were several RedShirtOfficialDudes on that hill and yes, they moved the crowd on that hill before Matt's shot (and several other times, I might add.)

I saw the sea of people part/run/holler/gasp as the shot came in. I saw the shot. It came in hot and hard and flat. Of course I don't know what the intended route was, but this shot seemed way off line. If I had to guess it would have never hyzed back to the target ---- instead------ it getting knocked down by the crowd may well have been all that kept it from going OB on the road below. If I had to guess.

We saw a huge spike hyzer on this same hole during the sudden death that went OVER the crowd and was a thing of pure beauty. Neither player asked the crowd to re-position.

The crowd was formidable on every hole. We essentially became part of the course. Only on a couple of occasions did the players ask for a re-position. But, never on hole one.

Matt played some amazing golf during the final 9. Let, me say that again. Matt played some amazing golf during the final 9. Had this shot also been on the amazing list --- well, that would have given him another stroke gain.

Ron Pittman

the_kid
Aug 04 2009, 02:01 PM
Does anyone know what happened to the payouts for the putting contest? I just heard from a guy in ADV that he never got his payout for 2nd in ADV and he was wondering what was up.

JerryChesterson
Aug 04 2009, 02:06 PM
Hmmm... I guess that is one way to look at it.

I was standing on that hill. And yes, there were several RedShirtOfficialDudes on that hill and yes, they moved the crowd on that hill before Matt's shot (and several other times, I might add.)

I saw the sea of people part/run/holler/gasp as the shot came in. I saw the shot. It came in hot and hard and flat. Of course I don't know what the intended route was, but this shot seemed way off line. If I had to guess it would have never hyzed back to the target ---- instead------ it getting knocked down by the crowd may well have been all that kept it from going OB on the road below. If I had to guess.

We saw a huge spike hyzer on this same hole during the sudden death that went OVER the crowd and was a thing of pure beauty. Neither player asked the crowd to re-position.

The crowd was formidable on every hole. We essentially became part of the course. Only on a couple of occasions did the players ask for a re-position. But, never on hole one.

Matt played some amazing golf during the final 9. Let, me say that again. Matt played some amazing golf during the final 9. Had this shot also been on the amazing list --- well, that would have given him another stroke gain.

Ron Pittman


I guess I had a bad angle then cause from my end it looked like the shot barely cleared the crest of the hill and was on target to hyzer back in. KC was standing next to me and said the same thing. That said I agree he probably should have asked the people to move if that was his intended route. IMO OB wasn't in play. Plus with regards to ropes, probbly not needed but since there was a nice hill people could have seen very well from another 50' back.

the_kid
Aug 04 2009, 02:07 PM
Hmmm... I guess that is one way to look at it.

I was standing on that hill. And yes, there were several RedShirtOfficialDudes on that hill and yes, they moved the crowd on that hill before Matt's shot (and several other times, I might add.)

I saw the sea of people part/run/holler/gasp as the shot came in. I saw the shot. It came in hot and hard and flat. Of course I don't know what the intended route was, but this shot seemed way off line. If I had to guess it would have never hyzed back to the target ---- instead------ it getting knocked down by the crowd may well have been all that kept it from going OB on the road below. If I had to guess.

We saw a huge spike hyzer on this same hole during the sudden death that went OVER the crowd and was a thing of pure beauty. Neither player asked the crowd to re-position.

The crowd was formidable on every hole. We essentially became part of the course. Only on a couple of occasions did the players ask for a re-position. But, never on hole one.

Matt played some amazing golf during the final 9. Let, me say that again. Matt played some amazing golf during the final 9. Had this shot also been on the amazing list --- well, that would have given him another stroke gain.

Ron Pittman

Matty-O's shot was better than the "thing of pure beauty" since that shot was really just a shank by Avery as there was no way in the world he meant to go that wide on his shot. He was stuck in the hay which gives some bad footing which made Jenks slip and he pulled his disc too far right.

33009
Aug 04 2009, 02:28 PM
I watched matt's shot also come in towards the crowd. It was way off line and way to low. The rough was so tall it wasnt going anywhere. I think it actually hit a guy in the ankle.

Matt is awesome though. I was rooting for him to beat out thuggy

hallp
Aug 04 2009, 04:01 PM
I love how people say that matty-o and averys shots were way off line! i bet most of you would say that when you see the routes they take off of the tee until they land
150ft further down the fairway than yours. i think these are two of the best players in the world and until you can invision the shots that they can, you should probably keep your mouths(fingers) shut!!!! as for people complaining that ropes would be unnecessary, i think you are wrong! ropes are definately needed for major tourneys! the gallery is great but not at the expense of the players shot. that is not the gallerys fault it is the pdga's fault. the gallery/players are going to want to get as close as possible and without people/officials herding people away theres really no one to blame but the pdga. i think they should have the fairways roped off just like the pga and anything outside that rope is not ob but you would have to deal with the gallery getting in the shape of the shot. congrats to all of the new world champions and all who participated. it was my first world championships and it was awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT JOB TO KCDG!!!!!!!!

cevalkyrie
Aug 04 2009, 04:32 PM
that is not the gallerys fault it is the pdga's fault. the gallery/players are going to want to get as close as possible and without people/officials herding people away theres really no one to blame but the pdga.

Why is it the PDGA's fault and why does the host club take no blame in this?

I benefitted on an errant shot that hit a pedestiran and kicked back in bounds. It can go both ways.

This is my personal take. It seems everyone wants to point the finger and blame the PDGA for everything that happens. The KC crew did a fantastic job as well as the PDGA to make this event happen. When it comes down to it these are volunteers who give up their week to do the best that they can do. These are not professional TD's getting paid thousands of dollars to host a perfect event. They are volunteers!

If someone wants to start talking about strokes that cost Matt O. I saw him miss a point blank range putt on hole #14 during the semis at WW.

cgkdisc
Aug 04 2009, 04:40 PM
There are way more woulda-coulda-shouldas at every Worlds than people...

exczar
Aug 04 2009, 04:42 PM
I was among the crowd following the Avery-Josh playoff. Hole 4 was a long hole starting down by the pond and working its way up and over a hill to the basket. I don't remember if Josh or Avery putted first, but when Avery was setting up to putt, I felt a pressure on my back under my right shoulder blade. I didn't turn around, but I figured out that it was probably somebody that didn't want to watch the putt.

After Avery made it, I did turn around to see who it was. It was a lady with a smile on her face, about my age whom I did not recognize, but after I got home and looked at some pictures, I realized that it was, as you probably have already guessed, Avery's mom! I figure that Josh already made his putt, and Avery needed to make his to keep the playoff going.

I bet she was REALLY happy after the next hole!

Jeff_LaG
Aug 04 2009, 04:57 PM
There are way more woulda-coulda-shouldas at every Worlds than people...

And we even had an estimated 1000-1500 people watching the Finals on Saturday...

Furthur
Aug 04 2009, 04:58 PM
Does anyone know what happened to the payouts for the putting contest? I just heard from a guy in ADV that he never got his payout for 2nd in ADV and he was wondering what was up.

Pretty sure that's handled by the pdga. We had a guy come up to me and Chappy during the distance finals saying he didn't get sent his payout from 2008 and if there was anything we could do about it. I told him to email the pdga, and would suggest the same for the fellow you commented on.

cgkdisc
Aug 04 2009, 05:28 PM
All payouts including field events are handled by the Worlds hosts, usually not the PDGA.

the_kid
Aug 04 2009, 07:38 PM
All payouts including field events are handled by the Worlds hosts, usually not the PDGA.



So was there a payout or not? He said he tied Borg and was pretty happy about that but said there wasn't any payout that he saw.

Now do you see why I asked before signing up for these things? Greenwell himself said he made a total of <$100 in three EDGE wins.

bcary93
Aug 04 2009, 08:32 PM
Does anyone know what happened to the payouts for the putting contest? I just heard from a guy in ADV that he never got his payout for 2nd in ADV and he was wondering what was up.

Well, you've come to the right place to pass blame, start rumors and insinuate the wrong doing of others. But, you already knew that didn't you?

the_kid
Aug 04 2009, 08:35 PM
Well, you've come to the right place to pass blame, start rumors and insinuate the wrong doing of others. But, you already knew that didn't you?


Yeah kinda but I figured chuck would have an inside scoop and give a faster response. He handled the EDGE comp which I'm pretty sure did have payout so its not like he did anything wrong I just figured he might know and I was asked to post.

Most of my E-mails to the PDGA don't end all that well.

cgkdisc
Aug 04 2009, 08:43 PM
Dave said I need to get a check from Chappy for reimbursement of $40 in expenses (posterboard, calculators, markers, tape) for running the SkillShot. So it looks like he's the one.

rhett
Aug 04 2009, 09:08 PM
I watched matt's shot also come in towards the crowd. It was way off line and way to low.

You think so? It looked perfect to me. There was a pretty good breeze blowing across that fairway and his shot looked absolutely perfect to me. I was standing next to that telephone pole next to The Champ and kept mumbling to the people around me that The Shot was to come right through the middle of us because of the breeze. That's why I went to the pole, so I could hide behind it.

I must've been reading the wind right because The Champ started yelling at everyone to back up, back up, back up even further, keep backing up.

The shot was right. It was going to crest the hill way to side and then ride the breeze over to the basket.

olsen129
Aug 04 2009, 11:33 PM
Speaking of shoulda-coulda-woulda.......Matty O gets a 3 on his last hole (#1) at Cliff Drive and shoots a 43 he is looking at back to back Worlds with a 1100 rated round......

andyn
Aug 05 2009, 01:01 AM
Not that I got any, but looked several places online, at hotel and asked some staff members and nobody knew nothing about nothing. Is it posted anywhere yet?

c_trotter
Aug 05 2009, 11:37 AM
Can someone please explain to me why my name is not on the Results page? It was removed middle of last week for some reason. It kind of bugs me. I know I only completed 8 or 9 holes, but I paid my entry fee just like everyone else.

twoputtok
Aug 05 2009, 12:42 PM
No finish, no results.

cgkdisc
Aug 05 2009, 12:46 PM
Players who complete at least one round are kept in the results including those forced to skip some rounds (family issue) in the middle like Shelia Jackson in FPM.

johnbiscoe
Aug 05 2009, 12:48 PM
i didn't realize skipping rounds was acceptable.

cgkdisc
Aug 05 2009, 12:50 PM
Must get approval from Tour Director and it might be just the second time at Worlds in the past 5 years.

Jeff_LaG
Aug 05 2009, 02:36 PM
Not that I got any, but looked several places online, at hotel and asked some staff members and nobody knew nothing about nothing. Is it posted anywhere yet?

All field events, doubles results, singles results, & aces were posted on the three large bulletin boards near the escalators to the waterfall in the Host Hotel lobby; it is almost inconceivable that these bulletin boards could be somehow missed by anyone.

Payouts for field events were not calculated until later in the week, but the original field event printouts (without payouts) were replaced with printouts with payouts on Friday. They were still there on Sunday morning at 9 AM when I checked out.

Online, the putting results with payouts can be viewed here:

http://www.pdga.com/2009-pdga-world-championships-putting-results

DSproAVIAR
Aug 05 2009, 03:22 PM
When it comes down to it these are volunteers who give up their week to do the best that they can do. These are not professional TD's getting paid thousands of dollars to host a perfect event. They are volunteers!

Wait what? It is my understanding that the 2 co-TD's for Kzoo 2008 did make thousands of dollars apiece. That's not a bad thing. The TD's should be taking $ from the Am Worlds profits.

gokayaksteven
Aug 05 2009, 06:05 PM
link to results?

andyn
Aug 05 2009, 06:07 PM
Thanks, Jeff. The inconceivable happened. I didn't stay at host hotel and my last trip there was on Thursday. Saw results with no payouts. No one running my courses on Thursday or Friday were armed with info to get me to the results, inconceivable as that might seem to those in the know. Thanks again for the link. It was a great week in KC.

mannyd_928
Aug 05 2009, 07:18 PM
Just got in late last night from our adventure to '09 KC Worlds (we stayed an extra day to see the sights and go to Oceans of Fun and do some school shopping at the mall). What a great experience we had! We wish to thank all of those involved for a wonderful time, playing on absolutely breathtaking courses, in one of the finest cities we've been to. Thanks to the TDs, the spotters, the course directors, all the way down to the bearded guy and his crew that was spreading mulch and refilling water jugs out at Waterworks, before we started. Kudos to you all. We all were sad for having to leave. We also want to thank all our friends from past Worlds and also the new friends we've made at this years Worlds for letting us into their lives.
After such a great experience, we ran into a small quirk while on the road back home. We stopped over for the night in Amarillo, as we always do cause we absolutely love the Disc Creek Course there and were looking forward to playing in the morning. We got in around 12:00 midnight and parked for the night outside of our hotel room, and not a cheesy seedy one either, and went in to sleep. Waking up the next morning, my wife went outside to grab something she had forgotten in the car, only to discover that someone during the night had broken out a window and had robbed us blind. They took everything, 2 suitcases full of clothes, our camera containing 605 pictures of just our worlds experience, our dvd players, ipods, all of our disc golf bags, all of the discs we brought to give out, all the discs we were given in players packs and bought with payout, all of Nicks sponsor gear, all of the players package contents, all the school clothes and shoes that we had just bought, everything. They even went as far as to steal Nicks trophy for winning Worlds. They did leave us the mini basket trophy though, and the car completely ransacked. I'm by no means bagging on Amarillo or the state of Texas, we love Amarillo and the disc golf scene there. I am more just giving a heads up to everyone who travels, to be vigilant of all of their stuff while they are traveling. Nor am I asking for pity or for handouts, the material stuff can be replaced, no biggie. Cause when it comes right down to it, shame on me, for leaving our stuff outside for the night. My hope is more that someone reads this and learns from OUR mistake and heeds our warnings. And although it may be a stretch, I hope the person that did this sees our bags and pics and Innova gear and maybe considers re thinking the bad choices that he's making and maybe heads out to the course there in Amarillo and starts working on a little disc therapy.

cevalkyrie
Aug 05 2009, 08:30 PM
Wait what? It is my understanding that the 2 co-TD's for Kzoo 2008 did make thousands of dollars apiece. That's not a bad thing. The TD's should be taking $ from the Am Worlds profits.


What does this have to do with what happned in Kansas City this year? I heard seems to be the theme in the disc golf world without real facts.

If they are making money shouldn't the blame go on the hosts and not the PDGA which hallp discussed earlier?

eupher61
Aug 05 2009, 10:21 PM
After such a great experience, we ran into a small quirk while on the road back home. .
a small quirk....geez, that totally sucks. Absolutely horrible news, no matter WHERE it happened.

what a way to end what must have been a fun week for Nick and all of you. :(

coda_hatfield
Aug 06 2009, 02:54 AM
????? How is it that we can pay $70 for pdga dues, we average about 20+ tournies a weekend, with tier dues and player dues per event ( which is alot of money ) and still a horrible payout????? What does the PDGA do with the monies in which they receive for us playing??? Think we need some help in that department!!! You have to get 9th or better to receive a $1000, something wrong there......... I wouldn't go to worlds if I didn't think I could win World Champion!!!! Alot of people have families so they have to pick and choose their tournaments, alot don't choose worlds because of the payout!!!! If the Pdga would put back some of the money that we put in there would be a great payout........ but no. Just don't understand how we can all get taken advantage of by a NON-profit organization!!!!!!!!!! So many tournies these days have great payouts but still not at worlds.. I'm lost... Any comments???

seewhere
Aug 06 2009, 09:51 AM
out of curiosity how many PDGA staffers where flew in on the PDGA dime for this event????

PDGADirector
Aug 06 2009, 11:05 AM
????? How is it that we can pay $70 for pdga dues, we average about 20+ tournies a weekend, with tier dues and player dues per event ( which is alot of money ) and still a horrible payout????? What does the PDGA do with the monies in which they receive for us playing??? Think we need some help in that department!!! You have to get 9th or better to receive a $1000, something wrong there......... I wouldn't go to worlds if I didn't think I could win World Champion!!!! Alot of people have families so they have to pick and choose their tournaments, alot don't choose worlds because of the payout!!!! If the Pdga would put back some of the money that we put in there would be a great payout........ but no. Just don't understand how we can all get taken advantage of by a NON-profit organization!!!!!!!!!! So many tournies these days have great payouts but still not at worlds.. I'm lost... Any comments???

In addition to being the largest disc golf event in history, the 2009 Disc Golf World Championships in Kansas City had the second highest pro payout in the history of the event behind only Ann Arbor in 2000 with a payout around $83,000. A pretty impressive feat considering the state of our economy. They easily met the mandated minimum payout for the world championships of 125% of entry fees and 40% of the field was payed out. The PDGA provided a cash stipend of $10,000 and handled tournament registration, player check-in, scoring, rules officiating, marshals, production of a DVD, and media coverage of the event at PDGA.com. Coda, I would encourage you to read my E.D. report in the second issue of DiscGolfer Magazine or to look up the definition of a non-profit organization. You might also take a look at our by-laws and mission statement. The main mission of the PDGA is promotion and growth of the sport around the world. It is not the mission of the PDGA to guarantee that anyone can make a living playing disc golf, although in time we all hope that will be a result.


out of curiosity how many PDGA staffers where flew in on the PDGA dime for this event????

Three PDGA staffers were in attendance in Kansas City. Tour manager David Gentry, memberships manager Addie Isbell, and myself. My main responsibilities were general oversight of the event, media coverage, meetings, committee recruitment, PDGA player awards, players meeting, media interviews, and general representation of the PDGA. David Gentry was responsible for the competition, scoring, the shuffle, tee times, officiating and management of the worlds media page at PDGA.com. Addie Isbell handled three days of player check-in, member relations, daily blogs, live scoring, and live commentary on the media pages. The World Championship is without question our busiest week of the year. The staff in attendance give up two weekends of their personal time without compensation and work from sun up to sundown for eight days straight assisting with the event, multi-tasking, and serving our members. It is our job and we are happy to do it.

Hosting a combined Pro/Am World Championships is probably the most difficult task to accomplish on our sport. The Kansas City Flying Disc Club is to be commended for running an outstanding World Championships.

exczar
Aug 06 2009, 11:17 AM
{edit: I wrote this before Brian posted}

Guys,

If a player's motivation is to make money, that is what the tour is for. If a player's motivation is to try and win a World Championship at an event that is well staffed, play more than two different courses, see old friends, make new friends, go to a Fly Market that has great participation from vendors, be the first ones to get your hands on some new discs, and in general enjoy your vacation while playing DG, then the WDGC is more suitable for that player.

If people don't go to Worlds because of the payout, then they have the other 51 weekends in the year to play for profit.

I went to Worlds knowing I would not cash, but also knowing I would, as a Pro player paying $100 more than an AM player, get to play the best courses in the area that had staff and spotters where needed, and have a very well run event because the PDGA could afford, for this one tournament each year, to bring in staffers and marshals that were experienced and there to enhance our playing experience.

Since most people who attend a WDGC do not cash, I would expect most of them to want a similar, pleasurable experience.

But I don't expect this to stop any criticism of the event. More prize money would be great, and I would think that the PDGA would welcome y'all to form an ad hoc committee to see how we can significantly increase the purses at the future WDGCs.

rickb
Aug 06 2009, 12:52 PM
After reading all of the whining and sniveling from the "pros" concerning payout I thought I would chime in. If you wanted more money at Worlds, YOU SHOULD HAVE PLAYED BETTER! There is no one to blame but yourself. The PDGA, it's staff or anyone having anything to do with KC Worlds didn't cause you to miss those putts. Or shank that drive, go OB or hit that tree early. That was all you. Maybe you should have practiced more. You, Avery, Josh, Cale, Matt all played the same courses. You all have access to the same discs yet they seemed to fare better and you don't hear them on here complaining about payout. Remember the choice was yours to go to Worlds, no one forced you.

Here's a thought. Why not seperate the orginization into the Amatuer disc golf association and the "professional" disc golf association. Then let the "pros" run thier events thier way. They could come up with a schedule for thier events, TD thier events, go out and secure sponsorship for thier events. Take care of all of the details that make an event both successful and enjoyable. If it doesn't happen then they have no one to blame but themselves. No more blaming the volunteers that spend 100's to 1000's of hours of thier free time, spend thier own money and all of the other sacrfices they and thier families make to cater to the pros. Then they can whine, snivel and complain to each other when things don't work out.

I can see the write up now. This weeks b-tier in you name it, middle America drew 12 of the top pros in the region to compete. Players meeting took 3 hours due to disagreements between the 12 TD's of the event over who was doing scorecards and check ins, who was putting out the water, who was doing last minute course maintinance and who was going to be lead TD. You know, the one that's going to get all the blame and none of the credit.
Things finally got under way when they all decided to split the $1200 pot evenly. Although there was some grumbling from Pro A and Pro B about the lack of added cash. Apparently no one took it upon themselves to go out and secure any extra money. Not a bad week though. Pay a $100 entry fee and you're guaranteed to at least make your money back.

rhett
Aug 06 2009, 12:55 PM
...and still a horrible payout?????

Coda, did you stay at the host hotel? Did any of the pros complaining about the payout stay at the host hotel?

I heard that we didn't sell the minimum number of rooms required to get free meeting space, and we used a lot of space. The giant ballroom was used for the player meeting, the talent show, and the fly mart; and that thing couldn't have been cheap. In fact, they didn't even open it up as big as they said they would for the fly mart, and I assume that's because the floor space was expensive. Then there was the pro-shop all week long, that's more space. And I don't know if the score-keepers closet was in a meeting room or a guest room, so that could be even more.

So if you want better payout, support the sponsors and stay at the host hotel. Whatever had to be paid for meeting room space could've gone to the payout if more people booked the host hotel.

But it comes back to what I keep saying: no one currently wants to pay to watch disc golf. Without that, there isn't really any reason for non disc golf companies to sponsor disc golf. We're cheap. We'll skip whatever hotel deal there is for a tourney and sleep in our cars. We'll cook ramen on the radiator instead of eating dinner at a restaurant sponsor's place. If we do motel it, we'll jam 6 to 8 people into one room and make the place smell like pot.

We are where we are. Play because you like the game and want to compete. If you want to make money, you should do something else. Sorry, but that just needs to said.

On a positive note, I didn't smell the disc golf smell at the Westin all week. But then again, I was on the 17th floor. :)

warlocks00
Aug 06 2009, 01:52 PM
If the pros want more payout at Worlds next year, I've got an idea.....
Why not go out and try to secure sponsors for the event on your own? Start today for next year, just think how much you guys could raise that payout to?!?!?!
I know....I know, because complaining is waaaaaaay easier.
$83,000 worth of payout sounds pretty good for throwing plastic at some metal in park. I mean this is still just disc golf we are talking about. I wonder if those that are complaining, would have won....would we have heard all of this from them?



Lot's of complaining going on here over the last few pages about this and that....So I wanted to say again: I had a blast and again wanted to thank all of those that helped out and made this a GREAT week of disc golf. Of course I am just a low rated Ams player that went to this tournament soley for the experiences of worlds, to play some of the top courses, and to meet players and make friends across the country and world for that matter. GOAL ACCOMPLISHED!!! THANK YOU KCFDC!!!!!

wyattcoggin
Aug 06 2009, 02:25 PM
Here's a thought. Why not seperate the orginization into the Amatuer disc golf association and the "professional" disc golf association. Then let the "pros" run thier events thier way. They could come up with a schedule for thier events, TD thier events, go out and secure sponsorship for thier events. Take care of all of the details that make an event both successful and enjoyable. If it doesn't happen then they have no one to blame but themselves. No more blaming the volunteers that spend 100's to 1000's of hours of thier free time, spend thier own money and all of the other sacrfices they and thier families make to cater to the pros. Then they can whine, snivel and complain to each other when things don't work out.

.

Rick Thank you so much. was going to try and say the same thing. but you put it much better than I could have.

My club and I have put on Ice bowls and C-tiers in Archdale. in the past it has been easy to get added cash when you tell the sponsors that I have 80+ players coming I also show the economic impact of those 80+ eating, buy gas, things they need on the course.

I would hate to call on a business and say I have 12 pros coming to town to play please give me some money.

unclemercy
Aug 06 2009, 02:28 PM
I would hate to call on a business and say I have 12 pros coming to town to play please give me some money.


is this the current strategy for world's?

Jeff_LaG
Aug 06 2009, 02:31 PM
out of curiosity how many PDGA staffers where flew in on the PDGA dime for this event????

Wow, now we've truly reached a new low. Not only is there the typical whining about the payout, but now we're actually questioning why PDGA staff would be present at the PDGA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS and the ED has to list all the duties performed by the staff last week.

Unbelievable. http://www.bearclaws.org/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif

seewhere
Aug 06 2009, 02:35 PM
seattle down Jeff if you read my post I asked out of curiosity so SHUT IT. more curiosity did you pay for your flight??? :)

another issue with some bored users is when you ask something it is considered WHINING,,,

jackinkc
Aug 06 2009, 02:40 PM
Wait what? It is my understanding that the 2 co-TD's for Kzoo 2008 did make thousands of dollars apiece. That's not a bad thing. The TD's should be taking $ from the Am Worlds profits.

lies, that (sorry I wasn't pointing you out Dave, you just asked it so I took out "your") understanding is wrong.

james_mccaine
Aug 06 2009, 02:57 PM
Be fair, the point was about PDGA memeber fees and tourney fees and why aren't they used for World's payouts. Responses about sponsorship and where folks stay, or about creating an Am organization really don't address his point.

wyattcoggin
Aug 06 2009, 03:07 PM
is this the current strategy for world's?

It's the Strategy of Sanctioned PDGA events. TD, Volunteers and club members call Business owners for added cash so the event can be sanctioned. and to draw more pros to the event.

I sponsor more events than I help put on (donate Cash - CTPs). I recieved a PM this morning to Sponsor a Distance event at an up coming event in NC. I have been contacted by one and only one Disc Golfer that wants to use my company. (only because I have known him for sometime)

In the past two years I have Donated well over $1000.00 to Disc Golf events.

The truth is my sponsorship dollors are running out. There has been no pay back for sponorsing Disc Golf Events.

As a sponsor of events the Postings on this tread really has me thinking about all the money I have donoted.

Wyatt Coggin
General Manager / Davis Studios

papparoc
Aug 06 2009, 03:09 PM
We had a great time in KC. Loved the courses and the people. Of course there will always be some problems when you are dealing with such a large event but all and all it was a great trip. We go to the worlds and hope to bring home some hardware and achieved that goal. We would take a world championship over a payout anyday. What other reason would you attend? KC & the Worlds Roc's

oceanjones
Aug 06 2009, 03:38 PM
Great tourney, great courses, well run. No complaints.

the_kid
Aug 06 2009, 03:41 PM
In addition to being the largest disc golf event in history, the 2009 Disc Golf World Championships in Kansas City had the second highest pro payout in the history of the event behind only Ann Arbor in 2000 with a payout around $83,000. A pretty impressive feat considering the state of our economy. They easily met the mandated minimum payout for the world championships of 125% of entry fees and 40% of the field was payed out. The PDGA provided a cash stipend of $10,000 and handled tournament registration, player check-in, scoring, rules officiating, marshals, production of a DVD, and media coverage of the event at PDGA.com. Coda, I would encourage you to read my E.D. report in the second issue of DiscGolfer Magazine or to look up the definition of a non-profit organization. You might also take a look at our by-laws and mission statement. The main mission of the PDGA is promotion and growth of the sport around the world. It is not the mission of the PDGA to guarantee that anyone can make a living playing disc golf, although in time we all hope that will be a result.




Three PDGA staffers were in attendance in Kansas City. Tour manager David Gentry, memberships manager Addie Isbell, and myself. My main responsibilities were general oversight of the event, media coverage, meetings, committee recruitment, PDGA player awards, players meeting, media interviews, and general representation of the PDGA. David Gentry was responsible for the competition, scoring, the shuffle, tee times, officiating and management of the worlds media page at PDGA.com. Addie Isbell handled three days of player check-in, member relations, daily blogs, live scoring, and live commentary on the media pages. The World Championship is without question our busiest week of the year. The staff in attendance give up two weekends of their personal time without compensation and work from sun up to sundown for eight days straight assisting with the event, multi-tasking, and serving our members. It is our job and we are happy to do it.

Hosting a combined Pro/Am World Championships is probably the most difficult task to accomplish on our sport. The Kansas City Flying Disc Club is to be commended for running an outstanding World Championships.




Well We cover $70,000 of the purse with just entries which means there is only $13K added total to the Pro side.

I told you 6 months ago Mr. Graham that this was a bigger issue than you thought and there are many Pros who go back year after year knowing they will me disappointed with the payout. I made a HEFTY $15 profit on my entry fee for beating 3/4 of the field which is pretty sad considering it isn't a $50 entry it is $200+.

Maybe more Pros would stay at the hotel if they could help pay for it with better payouts but as of right now most of the smart ones will try to find a free or cheaper place to stay to keep from losing too much cash.

Seems like there is more beef with the PDGA at this point in time than there has been recently after hearing many players complain about the upper Admin of the org and the job they have done to keep the sport where it has always been.



The purse in 2009 was SMALLER than the purse in 2000 even though we have twice as many members and courses. Also the dollar is worth 25% less so we have some catching up to do if we are going to get back to the state of DG 10 years ago.

coda_hatfield
Aug 06 2009, 04:07 PM
You know payout is low when they never posted it anywhere that I saw. We even had to pay to attend our own players party!!! Just wonder If the PDGA could take a $1 or $2 per person per event all year and add the amount to the Pro purse. People would be more interested in our sport if the winner of our Major touramnents were taking home BIG BUCKs. Just seems like we are going downhill when it comes to payout. Everything else is in place, with good staff, huge amount of current disc golfers, growing number of courses, and the growing knowledge of our sport. Just seems like the money we all pay in just goes to the wrong places, money could be managed better. Just want our sport to be as big as it can be!!!

JerryChesterson
Aug 06 2009, 04:18 PM
There seems to be a lot of interest in this discussion. I've create a different thread with some interesting details on it here ...

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1388940#post1388940

I think debating the pros and cons of Matt's idea is better serve a new thread versus this thread. That way it doesn't appear like we are bashing the 2009 Worlds. I think Matt, Coda, and others just want to see the sport grow moving forward. They don't have anything disparaging to say about the KC Worlds staff or people (at least that I could tell).

Check it out ...
http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1388940#post1388940

wyattcoggin
Aug 06 2009, 04:40 PM
There seems to be a lot of interest in this discussion. I've create a different thread with some interesting details on it here ...

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1388940#post1388940

I think debating the pros and cons of Matt's idea is better serve a new thread versus this thread. That way it doesn't appear like we are bashing the 2009 Worlds. I think Matt, Coda, and others just want to see the sport grow moving forward. They don't have anything disparaging to say about the KC Worlds staff or people (at least that I could tell).

Check it out ...
http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1388940#post1388940

Great Idea wish you or someone else had done it sooner.

seewhere
Aug 06 2009, 04:43 PM
I aksed about who all flew in on the PDGA dime and got put on probation for my signature line that has been the same for over 3 years. thanks Jeff :( guess I hit a touchy subject

true class and would not expect anything less from you.

jackinkc
Aug 06 2009, 04:49 PM
There seems to be a lot of interest in this discussion. I've create a different thread with some interesting details on it here ...

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1388940#post1388940

I think debating the pros and cons of Matt's idea is better serve a new thread versus this thread. That way it doesn't appear like we are bashing the 2009 Worlds. I think Matt, Coda, and others just want to see the sport grow moving forward. They don't have anything disparaging to say about the KC Worlds staff or people (at least that I could tell).

Check it out ...
http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1388940#post1388940


THanks Jerry,

You are right, but it happens after every worlds thread....it is a sore subject, and unfortunately it sounds like the return on investment may have bitten a good sponsor by reading this.

Disc golfers until we spend money will not generate money. Money chases money. Simple economics. I gave it a good try, hopefully others will take it and run.

The PDGA is not the problem. We are a CHEAP group to join....$100/year.....I pay $250/quarter for my Kiwanis Group, and I do less with them than I do with disc golf, and they give more to communities than disc golf ever will. If we the PDGA Raises the entry amount to $200/year, and says, that $100 of that will go towards tthe World's payout, how many people would pay it? I would, but again I feel I am in the minority of mouth meeting the road in what I do....the rest of you......think about it...many of you wanted to opt out for $15 on a magazine for the sport so offering a way to make more $$$$....but at the same tokken if we got say 5% of the PDGA to donate the $100, that would be $50k......it would make some inroads, but then I think that once it gets going the people that donated it should be compensated with very extra special gifts from teh players and worlds.....like $30k to the payout, $20k for gifts and recognition.....

Just thoughts.

Again thank you all for coming to KC, it was our pleasure to have you visit what we feel is the best disc golf city in the world. After many of you have been here how many of you disagree?

Why I moved here, housing is cheap, and we need more volunteers, so look up a new job or transfer to KC, we'll take ya!

coda_hatfield
Aug 06 2009, 04:50 PM
good stuff lil buddy!!! yeah I must just suck!!! Have to start playing better!!! I thought i did good with an injured back!!! They must not play Pro if they don't understand are comments- If you understand basic math.. It's not hard to see the problem!! Bums could make more money than i did at a week of picking up cans!!!!

skaZZirf
Aug 06 2009, 05:08 PM
Wow, now we've truly reached a new low. Not only is there the typical whining about the payout, but now we're actually questioning why PDGA staff would be present at the PDGA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS and the ED has to list all the duties performed by the staff last week.

Unbelievable. http://www.bearclaws.org/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif

Why is this a new low? BTW, its not. It has been brought up before in regards to Japan. Worlds is our one chance every year, where we can put together a massive amount of players and payout. The bigger it gets the more newsworthy the story! Its basic journalism. We were doing awesome until 2001 when we flat-lined. 4 years later, we were still flat-lining but the member dues went up. Now in 09, we are still flat-lined(minor spike) and yet player yearly dues are extremely high.
Also. please do not compare our org to the kwanis club. We pay our $75 a year and then play 30 pdga events, thus adding more out of pocket. We are growing greatly, and yet the main event of our sport is not. I think the_kid is on the right path. Take money directly from the org. to fatten the purse at worlds.

Jeff_LaG
Aug 06 2009, 05:20 PM
Again thank you all for coming to KC, it was our pleasure to have you visit what we feel is the best disc golf city in the world. After many of you have been here how many of you disagree?


I would definitely agree that Kansas City is one of the best disc golf cities in the world. Although Charlotte NC, Augusta GA and Pittsburgh PA are in the discussion too.

seewhere
Aug 06 2009, 05:21 PM
careful Matt feces may get you on probation

:confused:
That is some funny feces right there! Heck that may be my new signature.

tanner
Aug 06 2009, 06:13 PM
I think most of the points are valid frustrations shared by most Pro discers.

However, the most valuable lesson golf will ever teach someone, you only have yourself to blame. You know Worlds is notorious for low payouts. You know how many courses you'll have to play, how much hotel expense there is, how much driving you will have to do. This is why I've only played one worlds, in my hometown. USDGC is a much better value.

Don't get me wrong, I was trying hard to get to KC (my backyard :) ) but I just couldn't justify it. USDGC on the other, I can break even with some mid to mediocre play. I can profit if I play well. It's not about the money for me, but one has to be realistic in these economic times.

Great job Jack, Chappy and crew. I've heard nothing but great things here in Des Moines about the show you guys put on.

the_kid
Aug 06 2009, 06:30 PM
I think most of the points are valid frustrations shared by most Pro discers.

However, the most valuable lesson golf will ever teach someone, you only have yourself to blame. You know Worlds is notorious for low payouts. You know how many courses you'll have to play, how much hotel expense there is, how much driving you will have to do. This is why I've only played one worlds, in my hometown. USDGC is a much better value.

Don't get me wrong, I was trying hard to get to KC (my backyard :) ) but I just couldn't justify it. USDGC on the other, I can break even with some mid to mediocre play. I can profit if I play well. It's not about the money for me, but one has to be realistic in these economic times.

Great job Jack, Chappy and crew. I've heard nothing but great things here in Des Moines about the show you guys put on.



Thanks for posting that Tanner and your right we only have ourselves to blame but it is very hard to stay away from the DG flytrap that is Worlds.

I continue to go knowing I will have a great time and yes I already know they payout will be weak but I still have a great time while I am there. Some of us just wish there was a little more in our "World Championships" than just a fun time.

tanner
Aug 07 2009, 10:23 AM
Some of us just wish there was a little more in our "World Championships" than just a fun time.

Myself included. I see two options, do something tangible and make a difference, or don't go.

jackinkc
Aug 07 2009, 11:42 AM
They have increased our membership dues over the past few years, but still the same stuff


Barely. Seriously Coda, look at any other organizations, even neighborhood groups, heck its $25/year to join the neighborhood association for the group that has the Cliff Drive Course.

The money that the PDGA dues pays is peanuts. If you think it is more than that, you have a rude awaking to the real world. For Am's its less than a tank of gas, for pro's, its less than a date. You want to have the organization add $$$, then you have to create money. If you are not going to get sponsors by doing the work that countless TD's and volunteers do (its a hard gig, I don't blame you) then the only other way is to tax ourselves and raise the price of admission into the group.

The other option, would be to find an outlet that pays what you think you deserve. I do that. Its called a job. I have been working in the same field for 18 years now, and what 6 companies, and did my own thing. I subsidize myself by working my arse off at the coal mines. So if you really want to make a difference, get out and grab sponsors, or make it so that the PDGA is forced to add the extra money through an additional fund that others may want to contribute to. But with all the crying and whining about $3 & $5 fees to cover admin costs (inlcuding this chat room mind you) I doubt that our sorry little cheapskate arses are going to make an impact.

I could not even get people to buy into a room that had everything you could ask for on the biggest event in our sport. You really think that if people can't fork over an extra $20/day for 7 nights that they really care? The bottom line is that most disc golfers don't care enough to do anything. If they did, we would not be having this conversation. The PDGA is not hording cash to prevent the sport from growing. The players aren't doing their jobs to get the sport out to the sponsors, nor are they showing that we are an economic force to be dealt with. If we were we'd have sponsors, but instead we sleep in cars, and couches. We act like dogs, we get treated like dogs. Don't like it, then change the way you act about your spending habits, that will get us more acknowledgements and sponsors than anything else.

Not bashing on you in particular Coda, I really think that you are just typing what many others think, but from my perspective as a player of disc golf for over 30 years, and organizer of events the last 10, its tough to hear when disc golfers don't change things. We haev to change our habits or things will stay the same.

jackinkc
Aug 07 2009, 12:06 PM
and yet player yearly dues are extremely high.
Also. please do not compare our org to the kwanis club. We pay our $75 a year and then play 30 pdga events, thus adding more out of pocket. We are growing greatly, and yet the main event of our sport is not. I think the_kid is on the right path. Take money directly from the org. to fatten the purse at worlds.

Then how do you get the organization to make any progress? Donations? How do you not compare other organizations, are you seriously that blind to not look at what other groups do? The modern cycle is to steal what works and incorporate it into your own to make you better.

I don't have a problem taking money from the .org, but you have to have money to make it work. So you have to pay more money. If you seriously think, I mean seriously think about it, we are so cheap its absurd. You go play one roud of golf on a nice course, and will spend more money that day than you will give the PDGA over a year and playing 30 events. If I am not to compare organizations, then our organization is great. My bad, in you are all morons for questioning it.(SARCASM SHOULD BE NOTED HERE)

Realistically you have to pay attention to what groups do to raise awareness. We do pancake luncheons, chili dinners, we raise money by going out into the community and showing what we give to the areas that we live. Disc golf is different, and no arguments here, but what we have to do as disc golfers is show why we need support, we need support because we have 10,000 members that spend in excess of $300/person per weekend whenever we travel into the local economy. Now when we don't show that to people, or we stay at friends and it does not appear as though we are unified, we get nothing, because we have no legs to stand on. Again, you want to change things, but you do nothing but ask for handouts from the ONLY organization doing any real work in our sport. Biting the hand that feeds you comes to mind.

I am not singling you out, so please don't take this as a personal attack, but the mindset needs to change folks. It has to, or we will be here in 10 years saying the same things. You wanna make a difference, organize and show how we impact communities, don't just ask for a handout, make a difference, and try something different.

My bloated opinion of course is all mine alone.

jackinkc
Aug 07 2009, 12:28 PM
and yet player yearly dues are extremely high.
Also. please do not compare our org to the kwanis club. We pay our $75 a year and then play 30 pdga events, thus adding more out of pocket. We are growing greatly, and yet the main event of our sport is not. I think the_kid is on the right path. Take money directly from the org. to fatten the purse at worlds.

Then how do you get the organization to make any progress? Donations? How do you not compare other organizations, are you seriously that blind to not look at what other groups do? The modern cycle is to steal what works and incorporate it into your own to make you better.

I don't have a problem taking money from the .org, but you have to have money to make it work. So you have to pay more money. If you seriously think, I mean seriously think about it, we are so cheap its absurd. You go play one roud of golf on a nice course, and will spend more money that day than you will give the PDGA over a year and playing 30 events. If I am not to compare organizations, then our organization is great. My bad, in you are all morons for questioning it.(SARCASM SHOULD BE NOTED HERE)

Realistically you have to pay attention to what groups do to raise awareness. We do pancake luncheons, chili dinners, we raise money by going out into the community and showing what we give to the areas that we live. Disc golf is different, and no arguments here, but what we have to do as disc golfers is show why we need support, we need support because we have 10,000 members that spend in excess of $300/person per weekend whenever we travel into the local economy. Now when we don't show that to people, or we stay at friends and it does not appear as though we are unified, we get nothing, because we have no legs to stand on. Again, you want to change things, but you do nothing but ask for handouts from the ONLY organization doing any real work in our sport. Biting the hand that feeds you comes to mind.

I am not singling you out, so please don't take this as a personal attack, but the mindset needs to change folks. It has to, or we will be here in 10 years saying the same things. You wanna make a difference, organize and show how we impact communities, don't just ask for a handout, make a difference, and try something different.

My bloated opinion of course is all mine alone.

jackinkc
Aug 07 2009, 12:30 PM
why

DSproAVIAR
Aug 07 2009, 01:20 PM
That's weird. My post got deleted, and now I can't find your post that I quoted, Jack.

jackinkc
Aug 07 2009, 01:51 PM
someone moved my posts as well.....I am pretty well done with this if you need to have people that think they know where the posts should go......Orwell was right.

Good luck folks. More worries about posting than growing the sport, and killing comments in mid thread. Absolutely stupid.

I am done posting in here.

I thank you all for the time in KC.

seewhere
Aug 07 2009, 01:59 PM
DING DING we have a winner

Good luck folks. More worries about posting than growing the sport, and killing comments in mid thread. Absolutely stupid.
.

Moderator005
Aug 07 2009, 02:06 PM
This thread is for discussion of the 2009 World Championships tournament which occurred in Kansas City from July 27 - August 1, 2009.

There is a separate thread (http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1389125) for generic discussion of payout at PDGA Worlds (http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1389125). No posts from this thread have been deleted from this message board - they were simply moved to the appropriate thread.

DSproAVIAR
Aug 07 2009, 02:18 PM
This thread is for discussion of the 2009 World Championships tournament which occurred in Kansas City from July 27 - August 1, 2009.

There is a separate thread (http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1389125) for generic discussion of payout at PDGA Worlds (http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1389125). No posts from this thread have been deleted from this message board - they were simply moved to the appropriate thread.

Simply. Wow Jeff. This is ridiculous. Is there a list of issues that we are allowed to discuss on this thread?

GoRiLLaBoY25
Aug 07 2009, 02:39 PM
To me, it looked like it was a discussion about the payouts for the 2009 WORLDS, so why doesnt it belong here? I was enjoying the read, now i have to go find the other thread a MOD started because he got tired of reading about it?
SOunds ridiculous to me as well!!!

Luke Butch
Aug 07 2009, 03:04 PM
Coda, did you stay at the host hotel? Did any of the pros complaining about the payout stay at the host hotel?

I heard that we didn't sell the minimum number of rooms required to get free meeting space, and we used a lot of space.

geee

I wonder why. couldn't have been that they booked a host hotel that charged a $135/night tournament rate. People laughed when I told them about this. Was it very nice? yes. was it the right decision? no, because plenty of people could have told the host team beforehand that they would not fill the allotment of rooms needed.

and ya it would have been great to have everyone stay at the Westin, but why would anyone pay hundreds more up front to get themselves a $20 increase in payout?



(fwiw I stayed at the host hotel, using the hotwire rate of $75/n for 7 nights)


oh ya. I had a good time at worlds and think the host staff did a great job running the event

Luke Butch
Aug 07 2009, 03:11 PM
We even had to pay to attend our own players party!!!

I did not attend, so I am wondering what was free at the players party?

chappyfade
Aug 07 2009, 04:31 PM
This thread is for discussion of the 2009 World Championships tournament which occurred in Kansas City from July 27 - August 1, 2009.

There is a separate thread (http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1389125) for generic discussion of payout at PDGA Worlds (http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1389125). No posts from this thread have been deleted from this message board - they were simply moved to the appropriate thread.

I think the originator of the thread should be allowed to decide whether or not HIS post is appropriate to this thread. Please place it back. You have no valid reason for moving, other than thread drift, which coincidentally is not against the rules on this board. Methinks the moderator hast overstepped his authority,

Chap

the_kid
Aug 07 2009, 04:35 PM
I think the originator of the thread should be allowed to decide whether or not HIS post is appropriate to this thread. Please place it back. You have no valid reason for moving, other than thread drift, which coincidentally is not against the rules on this board.

Chap

You know how some people get when you give them a little power and control...........

warlocks00
Aug 07 2009, 04:46 PM
I did not attend, so I am wondering what was free at the players party?

You got $10 worth of coupons to use at Grinders(the place the party was at) that could basically get you either 2 beers or 1 sandwich. Then you also got free entry into the music part of the party....although, when I tried to get in through the back doors of Grinders they told me I had the wrong color arm band and I'd have to walk around to the side. No biggy right...Well I did that. Went to the ticket booth, they tried to charge me $10(each) to get in, and they weren't budging on it. Saying that I missed my opportunity to get in for "free" cause the HOF deal was over. Started to just leave, but I then asked the bouncer guy and he gave me(and my wife) the right color arm band and said the people at the ticket booth didn't know what they were talking about. I wondered how many people didn't try to the bouncer.....

chappyfade
Aug 07 2009, 09:56 PM
I did not attend, so I am wondering what was free at the players party?

You had to pay if you wanted to stay for the band and if you wanted the food vouchers. You did not have to pay to attend the party and HOF inductions and PDGA awards, which is better than in recent times where you had to spend $30 for a rubber chicken dinner. People had more fun at this party as well than they normally would have at a rubber chicken dinner.

Chap

Rhyno
Aug 08 2009, 11:04 PM
You know... it doesn't matter who is in charge...or where the Worlds is run... there will always be those who have their own opinions of how things should be run.

For all of you who feel you've been slighted or just want to complain... do me a favor.. instead of complaining next time... try being part of the solution... with that being said... if you have a complaint without a solution... then your complaint holds no weight in my books... you are just as much part of the problem you are complaining about.

Thanks to all who were involved in running this year's events. Win, lose or draw... cash or no cash... the courses were great and the times I had were even better!

discglfr
Aug 10 2009, 11:46 PM
To Jack and Chappy and the rest of the staff.

I'm chiming in with nothing but my gratitude and thanks for an awesome week. A crew of 4 of us came down for the week and we had an absolutely unforgettable week. Katie and I competed in mixed doubles and played horribly. We did the EDGE Challenge and although we didn't cash we had a great time with it. I finished 5th in putting (which you wouldn't have guessed the rest of the week) and my long tossing doubles partner, finished 4th in distance. KT took bottom cash in Pro Women which is unbelievable considering she has played less than a dozen PDGA events in her life. The 3 guys in the crew didn't cash and quite frankly, it didn't matter. As with most World's experiences, it was jaw dropping and simply amazing.

The flymart was huge, the live scoring was great, the courses were tough and challenging, the spotters were plentiful, the water was abundant, the atmosphere was exhilarating, the staff was kind, welcoming, and courteous, and the host hotel was simply awesome! Everything ran very smoothly and the general coverage of the action was superior to any previous year. Did anyone mention it was also the largest Worlds in history? Wow.

The time, energy, and effort that the two of you put in along with the PDGA staff and hundreds of other people is mind-blowing. I know because I also ran a Worlds once. What were we thinking?

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU to Chappy and Jack, to the KCFDC, to the PDGA and anyone else that had anything to do with making the 2009 Pro / Am Worlds a success.

Terry Miller

CB2
Aug 11 2009, 12:05 AM
geee

I wonder why. couldn't have been that they booked a host hotel that charged a $135/night tournament rate. People laughed when I told them about this. Was it very nice? yes. was it the right decision? no, because plenty of people could have told the host team beforehand that they would not fill the allotment of rooms needed.

and ya it would have been great to have everyone stay at the Westin, but why would anyone pay hundreds more up front to get themselves a $20 increase in payout?



(fwiw I stayed at the host hotel, using the hotwire rate of $75/n for 7 nights)


oh ya. I had a good time at worlds and think the host staff did a great job running the event

I was going to stay at the host hotel but I couldn't find a room for less than $109 a night!

I stayed at the Value Place Inn for $248 for 7 days!

Host Hotel for 7 Days = $763!(Not including for the cost of parking)

Value Place Inn = $248!

stack
Aug 11 2009, 01:26 AM
no blame being placed on the previous worlds staff or pdga for not thinking of this (and maybe they did but it didnt work out) but I would think/hope it would be possible for the PDGA to help with the tourney hotel booking in leveraging the contacts they have w/ the PDGA sponsor hotels.

at the bottom of the email for registration that goes out to TDs it has a plug about using a sponsor hotel (see below at the end for the exact text)

it would stand to reason that if Wyndham is willing to give us 10% for individual bookings... then hopefully they could give a nice discount for guaranteeing a lot of rooms being used at once (not to mention meeting areas/ballrooms/etc.). This also could open up the possibility of having deals at the main host hotel but also have a cheaper option or 2 at a sister hotel also in the Wyndham group.

I guess this would all hinge on what type of relationship the PDGA has w/ Wyndham and if that would hold much weight with individual hotel owners (not sure how the hotel industry works)


<from email to TDs>
Did you know your competitors and guests can save money on hotels and car rentals to traveling for your event? Wyndham Hotel Group offers a 10% discount at the following hotels:
Wyndham Hotels and Resorts
Days Inn
Ramada Worldwide
Super 8
Wingate By Wyndham
Baymont Inns and Suites
Howard Johnson
Travelodge
Knights Inn
AmeriHost Inn
Microtel Inns and Suites
Hawthorn Suites
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Phrizzb
Aug 12 2009, 12:57 PM
I wanted everyone to know I have begun posting the 30 or so Gb of shots I did over the week. Talent show, HOF and the fly mart are all included in the sets,

Right now the current set is the Hall of Fame inductions and PDGA Awards and if you naviagate to the Frisbee Collection (right side and link below) you will see the rest of the sets (I have a few more sets to create so check back often).

Please enjoy

Scott #3560

Main page:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/

Frisbee Set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/collections/72157604693798887/

jackinkc
Aug 13 2009, 02:31 PM
Thanks Scott, these are some awesome shots.

brock
Aug 14 2009, 02:42 AM
Frisbee Set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/collections/72157604693798887/


WOW, those are easily the BEST disc golf photos i've ever seen... WOW

what type camera/lens are you using?

Phrizzb
Aug 14 2009, 09:52 PM
WOW, those are easily the BEST disc golf photos i've ever seen... WOW

what type camera/lens are you using?

THANK YOU I appreciate that and I hope everyone has enjoyed them!

These are shot with a Canon 50D with a 70-200mm f2.8 with a 2x Converter. I used Canon for over 30 years so as time went on the camera and lenes 'moved up' so to say!

I have uploaded over 1000 new shots today -the sets include:

The Masters and Grand Masters (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/sets/72157622041100910/)- SLIDE SHOW SLIDE SHOW�Please if you have time this set makes a wonderful slide show � put on some music and watch some OLD plastic fly!

This set is what I would consider the best out of the week that was. These characters are some of the folks I grew up playing with and consider them to the what the Frisbee Family is about � Heck I even got to Heckle. It was great seeing everyone!

The Open Semi (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/sets/72157621916569251/)and Womens Open Semi (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/sets/72157621916535845/) both at Water Works

Friday at Water Works (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/sets/72157621916016199/) - Old Folks & Young Folks and Jrs too.

Friday PM at Swope (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/sets/72157622040382272/)

Again please enjoy!!

NOTE: If you see someone you know - please leave a comment for me on the photo and I will change the names!

exczar
Aug 16 2009, 05:52 PM
Did you get a set of shots of the Pro GMs during the preliminary rounds?

Maureen Higgins
Aug 16 2009, 06:59 PM
Are the semis going to be rated? I noticed they did last year.

cgkdisc
Aug 16 2009, 07:01 PM
Yes. The online software hasn't been programmed to do ratings for semis.

Kette_Master
Aug 16 2009, 08:30 PM
There was a guy selling $5 raffle tickets at the Fly Mart for a basket.
He didn't have any business cards, and I can't remember his name or business name. I do remember something about the proceeds going toward a charity or something.
Anyway, has anyone been contacted by him?
Anyone remember the person/business?

Phrizzb
Aug 18 2009, 03:06 PM
Did you get a set of shots of the Pro GMs during the preliminary rounds?

Bill,

I am sure I did - in the sets that I have now - I organized them by days and courses - so if you know the GM were at Waterworks on Thursday (Example) then look in that set - I'd like to say at some point I will organize these better but I just don't have the time nor the need.

I am going to work on a slide show for the finals and put the full set up in a week or two.

Cheers!

Phrizzb
Aug 29 2009, 03:51 PM
I have now completed the full upload of the worlds

New Sets include

The Finals Full Set (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/sets/72157622051905361/)

Sudden Death (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/sets/72157622052690617/)

Awards Ceremony (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottshots1/sets/72157622052760007/) I think I was able to capture everyone??

As always Please enjoy!

Jeff_LaG
Sep 02 2009, 07:38 PM
So my company needed me to take a trip out to their plant in Kansas, and I decided to head there by way of Kansas City so that I could play a few of the wonderful Worlds 2009 courses again.

On Monday I stopped in at one my favorite courses during the event, the Wyandotte County Park course, which I thought was one of the gold stars of the competition. It was a little strange walking the course - several pin positions have changed, the beautifully painted & mowed 10m circles around each pin have almost completely faded, the flags and OB lines creating a USDGC-type challenge on hole#13 are gone, the grass is a little shaggy and not as expertly manicured, and if not for some information on the bulletin board, just more than a month later if you didn't know any better you might not have realized that a Worlds ever took place here.

But the memories will always remain of a 2009 PDGA World Championships which will be fondly recalled for years to come for all the right reasons � it had arguably the best host hotel a PDGA World Championships has ever seen, the best collection of immaculately groomed & challenging world class disc golf courses, the best schedule and quality of player activities, and the closest and most exciting competition in the men�s Open division since the late 1980s. And just retracing the grounds of one of those venues brought back a mild euphoria and a sense of nostalgia, if it's even possible to be nostalgic after only a month.

The WyCo course doesn't have the tight woods of some other Worlds courses like Thornfield or RDU, nor the insane elevation changes of many of the Missouri courses like Waterworks, Blue Valley and Cliff Drive, but it has extremely nice teepads and teesigns, large mature trees, enough rolling elevation changes to make things interesting, many challenging holes including several pro par four holes, and a visual appeal that just makes it look like a high quality professional disc golf course. It's not a top tier course out of the 200 I've played over the last 14 years, but it's darn close!

Playing some of the new pin positions not used during Worlds and spying some of the other alternate pins that I had not noticed my other times through the course, I had a new-found appreciation for the course and the pin positions they chose for Worlds. In many cases, I think they used the best possible pin position and got it "right" much more often than "wrong." To wit:

Hole#1: This hole is now in the longest pin at about 530 ft. and listed as a par 4. The Worlds pin was 401' feet, which wasn't the best length to see more than a handful of birdies; however, this par 4 position now is weak at best and should be an easy 3 for most skilled players. Very strong players could even throw a hyzer out over the road and get down close to a putt for deuce on it. I'm glad the A pin was used during Worlds.

On the contrary, hole#2 is now in the 366' A pin, where it was in the 450' B pin for Worlds. I threw a roller down the tunnel and probably ended up about 45' short of the A pin, and stronger players should easily be putting on this short pin. The B pin used during in the Worlds probably saw zero deuces, a whole boatload of 3s and a few 4s.

Hole#6 was moved from the A pin straight ahead at 292 ft. to the B pin on the left at 403 ft. The shorter pin used during Worlds was absolutely the best location because it surely saw a great mix of deuces, pars, and bogeys from players who drove too long and into the road. The B pin would have likely seen just a ton of 3s. They made an excellent call on using the A pin here.

Hole#12 was still in the A pin, but I spotted the B pin on the right for the first time. This spiny little hole would have been completely boring to the 320' B pin on the right. Playing between mature trees and the road, the 291' A pin likely saw a plethora of different scores from birdies to double bogeys during Worlds. Another great call.

As mentioned previously, while the flags are gone and the OB lines creating a USDGC-type challenge on hole#13 have all but faded, it can still be played. It's a wide open 666' field shot which would be an extremely straightforward and unexciting hole if not for the imaginary rope surrounding THE ENTIRE hole. The further one goes on the drive, the rope pinches ever more narrow from the tee until it almost reaches an apex. Big arms are definitely at a disadvantage here and will need to lay up to avoid the landing area at its narrowest. From there, competitors have a choice of throwing a left-to-right shot (as the hole doglegs about 45 degrees to the right) or an approach which carries almost entirely over OB to the polehole. A saving grace is that left of the basket is a high-banked wall leading up to the road to catch shots which come in too hot. You definitely do not want to bite off more than you can chew and go OB which will result in stroke and distance back to the OB line, where you are then looking at a circle 5 or worse. Kudos to the course designers for taking what would be a boring hole and making it possibly one of the best designed holes on the course.

Hole#14 no longer played over the pond, but the short pin is a lot tougher than it looks. The land rises slightly in front of the tee making it difficult to throw a low shot. I tried a backhand roller but the grass is so shaggy that it slowed me down and left me about 35 left of the pin, and my putt hit the number plate. :(

Hole#16 is now even longer at about 490 feet and over on the left. It's still a hole that even though slightly downhill, it's not going to be something that most players will drive close enough for deuce at an acceptable rate. Again, I'd be willing to bet that this is an 'auto 3' for about 80-90% of the competitors who played it.

Hole#17's short pin is just downright disappointing. It's tucked over in the treeline near hole#9's teepad at 450-something and a bad tweener distance. The B pin used for Worlds played 618' and made for a perfect pro par four hole where two good drives and a putt could earn a player a satisfying birdie 3. A longer pin position that's another hundred some feet, all the way up near the road and even with hole#18's tee, would have been too far for birdie 3s and would have seen just an awful lot of scores of 4. Once again, they absolutely nailed the right pin position here for Worlds. :cool:

<O></O>I'm planning on getting another course in before I fly out on Friday, and once again try to rekindle the excitement that was the 2009 World Championships before the indian summer fades to autumn and the memories of one of the best Worlds this decade start to fade.

eupher61
Sep 02 2009, 11:06 PM
Jeff, post where and when you're wanting to play later, you'll get some company I'm sure. better still, do it on kcfdc.org

circle_2
Sep 06 2009, 12:15 PM
Great synopsis, Jeff - I agree wholeheartedly. Did you ever get a glimpse at #14's LONG pin setting beyond the pond - and slightly around the bend of the treeline? My fave hole in KC. It could be 2'd - even by this noodle arm!

Big kudos go out to Pro Master Tracy Walker - as he is the WyCo's Course Coordinator and the mastermind behind choosing the worlds' settings. I agree with the use of Tracy's OB on #13 - transforming a long hole into making strategic golf shots.

More kudos to the previous CC, GM Kevin Montgomery, who had sooo much to do with getting WyCo in the ground and opening vistas providing the groundwork for the present transformation.

FYI: Lefty Open/Pro Master Dave Hemmeline shot a sizzling 45 on the present configuration this last Friday night...to lower the course record which was a 46...also shot by Hemme.



WyCo's league night is Friday - The Perfect End to an Imperfect Week.

the_kid
Sep 07 2009, 04:34 PM
Great synopsis, Jeff - I agree wholeheartedly. Did you ever get a glimpse at #14's LONG pin setting beyond the pond - and slightly around the bend of the treeline? My fave hole in KC. It could be 2'd - even by this noodle arm!

Big kudos go out to Pro Master Tracy Walker - as he is the WyCo's Course Coordinator and the mastermind behind choosing the worlds' settings. I agree with the use of Tracy's OB on #13 - transforming a long hole into making strategic golf shots.

More kudos to the previous CC, GM Kevin Montgomery, who had sooo much to do with getting WyCo in the ground and opening vistas providing the groundwork for the present transformation.

FYI: Lefty Open/Pro Master Dave Hemmeline shot a sizzling 45 on the present configuration this last Friday night...to lower the course record which was a 46...also shot by Hemme.



WyCo's league night is Friday - The Perfect End to an Imperfect Week.


What about in the worlds setup? I shot my best round of worlds there during practice and wished that we had played it during the event.

The Blue Valley and Rosedale pins should have been long as those courses were both a few strokes easier with some good par 4's being in duecable pin locations.

circle_2
Sep 07 2009, 11:47 PM
Matt, here's a link to how Dave shot his 45.

http://kcfdc.org/forum/index.php?topic=3848.0