well i think it could be a good time to work this thing out
somewhere besides coda v devan

I was hoping someone would start a new thread for this. Looks like this thing is going to happen, I guess I need to start looking for possible teammates. :D

We will be working on and finalizing the details over the weekend. Look for the official announcment and the team guidelines early next week.

The date will be Saturday November 8th.

just one day

man no date ever seem to work for me
i suk

Your team needs to be like this

Pro (required for ratings of 970 or greater, unless masters age)

Pro Master ( must be 40 this year)

Advance Am (if 935 or over)

Am (if less than 935)


Any of these players can be male or female. And don't go trying to sneak in a sand baggger either, all of your team members must have a PDGA rating. If no rating is available, then we will assign your player a rating based on our knowledge of his most recent finishes.

As soon as we have it all together next week, we will ask for each team's captain (pro) to send in your team list of players. We will review its accuracy and contact the captain if there is a problem. Also keep in mind when selecting your teams, that there will be a new ratings update out before this event. So don't go and pick an Am rated 925 that has been playing above that, then his rating jumps to 936 or higher OR..... you'll be looking for a new Am player. ;)

just one day




The concensus has been for a one day event, for many reasons.
There are several two day events on both sides of this one, meaning Oklahoma Open, Horse Shoe Canyon.
Economics - no need to stay the night.
No need to buy two days worth of beer.
You can tell your wife, you'll be home Saturday evening.
You don't have to leave on Friday.
Oh and you'll be home Saturday eveing. :D

man no date ever seem to work for me
i suk



bad dates and you suk are two totaly different things. :D

Your team needs to be like this

Pro (required for ratings of 970 or greater, unless masters age)

Pro Master ( must be 40 this year)

Advance Am (if 935 or over)

Am (if less than 935)


Any of these players can be male or female. And don't go trying to sneak in a sand baggger either, all of your team members must have a PDGA rating. If no rating is available, then we will assign your player a rating based on our knowledge of his most recent finishes.

As soon as we have it all together next week, we will ask for each team's captain (pro) to send in your team list of players. We will review its accuracy and contact the captain if there is a problem. Also keep in mind when selecting your teams, that there will be a new ratings update out before this event. So don't go and pick an Am rated 925 that has been playing above that, then his rating jumps to 936 or higher OR..... you'll be looking for a new Am player. ;)



So, if I read that right The pro HAS to be over 970??

Sorry for the confusion, if a pro is 970 or above he HAS to play pro. I'm going to step out a little further and say that if a player has played pro and accepted cash in 08, he IS a pro. errrr......or pro master.

I'm pretty sure that anyone can "play up" but not "down"

is that your take on it TwoPutt??

doh...sorry, TwoPutt replied while I was asking....

whats going to be interesting is the scoring/points side of a team event, I'm still trying to grasp it

I'm already working on attracting NT Pro's from the Oklahoma Open to my team /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Thats kind of what I was thinking...guess I'm a pro then :D

Its going to be fun to see which class will have more impact on the overall team scoring. I could see the pro-Master or Am being a key component to the teams. I need to set up a cheat sheet to see who's available to play where.

I'm taken... :p

I think I was the number one pick in the Tulsa Advanced players draft.... :D

You think so?? ;)

My rating is 927, who wants me for AM

just one day




The concensus has been for a one day event, for many reasons.
There are several two day events on both sides of this one, meaning Oklahoma Open, Horse Shoe Canyon.
Economics - no need to stay the night.
No need to buy two days worth of beer.
You can tell your wife, you'll be home Saturday evening.
You don't have to leave on Friday.
Oh and you'll be home Saturday eveing. :D



However, anybody that wants to stay all night is welcome to free of charge. Free camping and I am still working on what else we can furnish for this event. :D

Thinking like maybe free BEER. :D At least a couple of kegs worth. :D

Sorry for the confusion, if a pro is 970 or above he HAS to play pro. I'm going to step out a little further and say that if a player has played pro and accepted cash in 08, he IS a pro. errrr......or pro master.



I think it would be a good idea to allow pros under 970 to play advanced to encourage more participation. You could qualify it to ensure fairness by ruling that if the Pro on the team is rated higher than 970, then they would have to have a true advanced player. If the pro is under 970, then a second pro under 970 would qualify as the adv. on their team, regardless of whether cash had been accepted (since that's how the PDGA does it anyway).

I THINK THAT IS SO THAT IT WOULD BE HARD FOR SOMEONE TO CALL JUSTIN AN ADVANCED PLAYER.
THERE ARE SOME OUT THERE THAT WOULD PREFER NOT TO PLAY JUSTIN / DEVON DUE TO THEIR SKILLS ON SOME OF THE COURSES.

RIGHT BIG DAVE?

I still think that if you played pro in 08 and you accepted cash, you're a pro, plain and simple. If someone can cash in pro and hasn't has some life changing injury in the last month then there is no way their game has slipped down to advance level. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I don't think there is going to be any shortage of teams.

Ben, have you gone and searched the rated Pro and Am players for the state of oklahoma? The top 30 pros are all good selections, just look at the names.

PRO
Coda Hatfield 1018
Ron Convers Jr 1009
Mitch McClellan 1001
Drew Etheredge 997
Devan Owens 990
Daniel Stacey 989
Kevin Holmes 987
Ray Walker 983
Brendan Hickman 982
Jared Pennington 980
Larry Gardner 978
Jose Mendoza 975
Kyle Wilkes 974
Jack Tefertiller 972
Kelly Allen 970
Chris Hutchinson 970
Daryl Johnson 969
James Roubidoux 969
Taylor Sears USA 968
Stephen Benton 968
W. Kyle Power 968
Chris Wagle 965
Greg Gifford 964
Jon Teel 963
Gary Beasley 963
Carl Rogers 957
Jack Wilson 955
Allen LaBryer 954
Cris Hicks 954
Travis Stand 954
Scott Wilkinson 952
Mike Conners 951
David A. Wise 950
Justin Bougher 948
Bill Pennington 947
David Pennekamp 944
Dan Bougher 943
Dale Patterson 941
Johnny Thompson 940

Advanced Am
Mike McCoy 948
David Nicholson 946
Don Cook 946
Derek Kummers 946
Greg Winsworth 945
Ben Davis 943
Joel Woody 943
Weston Moody 940
Andy Barnett 939
Jake Christian 937
Doug Maxfield 936
Jerry Stacey Jr 935

Am
Adam Hunt 934
Cameron Kaspereit 932
Jason LaPierre 931
Randy Forsander 930
David Frazier 928
James Diel 928
Jake Regier 927
Sean Young 927
Jason Schwake 926
Michael Moody 925
Kyle Razmus 924
Cory Poteet 923
Charles Smith 923
Steve dig King 922
Scott Sable 919
Brad House Of Israel 917
Paul Dorries 917
Aaron Triska 916
Michael Middleton 916
Harlyn Unruh 915
James P. Williams II 915
Mickey Brookshire 914
Brian Kummers 913
Rodney Carpenter 913
Dan Olsen 912
Wesley Burch 912
Chris Stine 912
Bob Bortscheller 912
Tom Townsend 912
Todd Young 910
Jimmy Billings 908
Jason Jace Davis 907
Jay Slack 907
James Nash 906
Michael Rodriguez 905
Michael Brookshire 904
Jeremy Geiger 903
Marq Lewis 902

While the advanced field looks small on paper, it isn't. there are a few more that will be moved up at the next update but several others that can do just fine. And ****! just look at the AM field. There is no shortage of qualified players for either division. Plus, I'm getting together a point system that will reward the Am divisions for playing better than the pros. So the real factor in a team may be the adv and am players.


How many good teams could you build from that list and thats just Oklahoma? ;) :o

how many old dudes are in that pro field

Daryl Johnson can kick most pro's arse and he is like 60! :D

Marq Lewis at 902 rating...

That is a solid pick...

Maybe the poker club team can pick him up, I am sure he would love to start coming to the games!!!

How about the two Pro divisions play match play,

and the two Am divisions play ratings games?

Marq Lewis at 902 rating...

That is a solid pick...

Maybe the poker club team can pick him up, I am sure he would love to start coming to the games!!!



go [censored] yourself and that idea
:cool:

phck

how many old dudes are in that pro field



Its both pro and pro master combined but it doesn't matter look at their ratings. You have 30 pro players down to about a 940 and over 40 Am players down to 900. Thats over 70 players above 900 ratings. There are some unblievable team match ups in those names. :o

so if we have 30 teams at a 200 a team
that is a big pot

I would like to cap it at 18 teams.

I would love to see that many teams, because that means more $$.

Anyone going to venture a guess on how many teams we actually get?

Hey Conners, How come you're not on here trying to build your team and talking smack? :o:o:D:D:D:D

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/crying.gif http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/rolling.gif http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/smiley.gif http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/rofl.gif http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/1/laughing.gif

We have our first official sponsor. Mr. Evan McKee has volunteered to donate the trophies for this event. There will be trophies given to each team member of the winning team. He will also donate a trophy that will remain at the lodge that will have the names of the winning team members on it. This trophy will be updated annually after each tournament. :cool::cool::cool:

What about the main event "Furdog vs Thong"?

I think a golden keg with the winner's name on it would make a nice trophy. :)

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Twoputt/conners_at_www_txt2pic_com.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Twoputt/conners_at_www_txt2pic_com.jpg



just rubbing is in

Hey Jim, we need one of these to pull behind the mule. :D

http://www.killsometime.com/Pictures/images/1495.jpg

where do you find this stuff? I am going to tulsa today to look into stuff like that. Keg coolers and stuff. If anybody wants to drink a few beers and play a little pool, give me a call. 724-3121

Your team needs to be like this

Pro (required for ratings of 970 or greater, unless masters age)

Pro Master ( must be 40 this year)

Advance Am (if 935 or over)

Am (if less than 935)





.
.
... I think you should require one woman player per team (mando) ... just my opinion ... :cool:

How about one woman or one 50+ male :), although most women in the area have a higher rating number than mine anyway.

I havent been on here since running my mouth off about chandler. What is going on here with this team event thing. im only rated at 893 but i play alot better than that if any teams are looking for an am partner.

Your team needs to be like this

Pro (required for ratings of 970 or greater, unless masters age)

Pro Master ( must be 40 this year)

Advance Am (if 935 or over)

Am (if less than 935)





.
.
... I think you should require one woman player per team (mando) ... just my opinion ... :cool:



I AGREE!!!! :cool:

That requirement would limit the event to about 4 teams. :confused:

Not if you include the ones that throw like girls :o
Just messin Mel :D

It seems to me that if you want the event to be about team comradarie, fun, and a level playing field instead of about wily recruitment of players, that you could simply apply a handicap based on the rating of players. I played in the Paul's Valley ratings based tournament this spring, and it was amazing how perfectly the ratings worked. Virtually no one scored better than anyone in ratings groups above them.

How about this format: total team scores adjusted by a handicap based on total ratings of all 4 players on a team. 10 ratings points are supposed to equal one stroke per person per round, right, so the math should be relatively simple to work out. This would make the team event more inclusive - someone might even invite my sorry 883 rated butt to join their team (or be willing to join a team that I organize) to ge my handicap points. Coda and Devan would have to beg to be put on a team. ;) Wayne Forest, Furdog, Martin Norris and I could take on Coda, Devan, Kyle Wilkes, and Jared Pennington. :eek: Melissa could get together an all female team. Anything could happen!

I am in the process of considering several ideas for a handicapping system or a points system that rewards the lower rated players. Just not sure how we are going to do it.

While the ratings system is the best we have it is not perfect. Even under the rating system, there are several players that are curently playing way above their ratings, given most of them are in the 880 - 930 range though. Even in the Am division, you could have a player's ratings anywhere from 800 to 934. I know its a stretch but should one Am player be giving up 13 stokes to another Am player? Should the ratings be across division only or across the whole team?

I do want to reward the lower rated players for good rounds but how much of a reward?

Keep the discussion going, I want to hear from the players what they think.

Thanks Jim. ;)

I like that idea Jim. Especially since my current rating is 811. :cool:...It would be nice to be recruited. :)

Let the bidding begin!!! :cool:

_________________________
since my current rating is 811.
_________________________

HEY DOG.... IS THAT ON THE UP SWING.....OR THE DOWN SWING....????





[/QUOTE]

Downswing, I think he dropped about 14 points on the last update. :o

That is why you should want me on your team. I'll even wear a handicapped sticker. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

You are already a walking handicap promotion. :o

That requirement would limit the event to about 4 teams. :confused:

I know, but I couldn't hide the fact that I was REALLY excited when I read Wayne's comment!!! I would love to play in a team event! I was really looking forward to the event that was planned in Arkansas. :confused:

You still can. Just come on a team as the Am player. I am trying to come up with a fair handicap sysytem that will allow you to contribute to a team score.

Yeah, I realize that I could play either way, but I'm not sure who would really want me on their team...there are many other Am's who are better than me. I guess I'll wait and see what the handicap decision is.

... AND ... all-new PDGA ratings coming-out this next Saturday , Aug.9 ... :cool:

Had a couple of questions posed to me by locals. 1.) If a player has just started and doesn't have much in the way of skill and experience, what is his rating. 2.) If some of the local boys wanted to form a team, how would they be rated? Some of these boys got game.

Jim,

To have an official rating, you must A)Sign with the PDGA. B)Play in two, or three I forget, rated (Sanctioned) rounds. And C) Have a computer to view them on.

For a player who does not have a rating it is really his peers that assign where he is supposed to play.

That may be difficult in the Pawhuska boys case because we don't know how they play and they don't know where they fit in with us.

I would doubt that there is any local down there that would be able to be competitive in the Advanced division so, as it stands now, they would all need to be Intermediates or Am's.

The only real place for those who aren't regular tournament players would be the Am category.

I don't think this event has its final "look" yet...still some thought to be put in on the project in order to ensure a smooth ride.

I just want to be on the team 420 :cool:, but I can be an am, adv., master, or pro.... depends where I am needed, and I know my my game isnt quite there, but I can hang with most "pros" on the "list" :D

my suggestions, 4 players 1 pro any rating, 1-920+ rated player, 1-906 to 919 rated player and one player below 905. but someone may have a better suggestion. you might be able to drop the last two players 5 rating points.

You could have the local players play a few rounds and see how they score related to previous rated players rounds and rate them according to what they shot.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

...plus I'm kind of curous how their doing. Red and I saw a couple of them playing the last time I was up. You're right, they did have game. :cool:



edit.....I had typed basically the exact same thing, then saw mutt's post. Good idea Mutt!! :D

We were kicking around another idea for a points system the other evening and it seems like it might work so here it is.... your thoughts?

Still the same team make up of 4 players, 1 pro, 1 pro master, 1 adv am and 1 am. One round from the blues and one round from the whites. Each round will have ratings applied for that round, using the players, weather conditions and so forth. Each players actual rating for that round will be their points.

Example:
Pro - 970 rating, shoots a 990 round
Pro master - 950 rating, shoots a 935 /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Adv Am- 942 rating, shoots a 970
Am - 910 rating, shoots a 940

Team score 3835 for that round.
Lower score equals higher points, each player that shoots above their rating is rewarded accordingly and receives every point that they shot above their rating.


???????????????????????????

Boooooooo.....hiss....hiss!!!!! :p

Why Boo Hiss Hiss?

Under this format you are one that has the highest probablility to score above your rating. you're an 811 rated player, all you have to do is shoot about anything over your rating and you're an asset to your team. Just don't go out and shoot a 750 round. ;)

Everyone has the opportunity to be an asset or a liability to their team and by using round ratings, the ams can have the biggest effect for their team. It is much harder for me to shoot above 950 than it is for you to shoot above 811. ;)

Nothing personal Dave but because you sell insurance, ANY plan you come up makes me naturally suspicious that you are working an angle for yourself. ;)

Sorry buddy but in my business I work angles for my clients not myself. :p Be suspicious if you want but I was just trying to come up with a system that could reward all levels of players for a good round and weight it towards the ams more than the pros.

Do you have anything costructive to add?
If not STFU! :o

"In some tribes, a man's greatness is measured by how strong his ememies are." Quoted from the movie Jerimiah Johnson

Where would you be in life if you didn't have me here everyday to give you crap?? ;)....Yeah I give crap to other people but you're the first one for today, August 6th, 2008. :D

I don't really care how you work it out. I just didn't understand your example.

Pro - 970 rating, shoots a 990 round

How is the 990 calculated?

Uhhh.........player shoots a 990 round, player gets 990 points.

DOH! :o:D


Using this system, each player, regardless of division is rewarded for a good round, the better the round against the entire field, the better the reward.

I have kicked around several ideas, all of which were geared towards the am players being the biggest factor on a team. I think this will work the best and is the fairest to all players. Your points will be based on your play, not how you finish against the others in your division, such as 1st, 2nd, 3rd....ect...........

By using the round ratings, it is what a player can shoot that round, under the current conditions, against the course and the field of players at that time. It is the most accurate I can come up with that isn't based on a players past performance but is based on his play that round.

Please, if anyone has any suggestions or problems that they see with this, please let us know.

so instead of getting a set number of strokes to start the round based upon the current ratings totals of each team in comparison to each team the only reason for the ratings being known is for team building.once the team has qualified to the criteria the ratings no longer matter. only the team perfomance matters. Am I understanding the format properly?

Yes, perfectly. ;)

Uhhh.........player shoots a 990 round, player gets 990 points.




.
.
... player gets 20 points ... imo ...

Still the same team make up of 4 players ...

Example:
Pro - 970 rating, shoots a 990 round
Pro master - 950 rating, shoots a 935 /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Adv Am- 942 rating, shoots a 970
Am - 910 rating, shoots a 940






.
.
... so the Team is rated at 3772 ... shoots 3835 ... Team nets 63 points ... ay ? ...

for a team member to shoot below their rating is there no penalty?
for a team member to shoot above their rating is there no reward?


some of the teams may have members who all are on the higher side of the qualifying terms therefore their teams would be "loaded" against other teams built with members on the lower side of the terms.

for a team member to shoot below their rating is there no penalty? <font color="red">of course there is, they receive less points that their team was counting on </font>
for a team member to shoot above their rating is there no reward? <font color="red"> yes, they receive more points that their team was counting on. </font>


some of the teams may have members who all are on the higher side of the qualifying terms therefore their teams would be "loaded" against other teams built with members on the lower side of the terms. <font color="red">What your rating is going into the event doesn't matter, except to form the team, it is what you shoot that day. Example: furdog 811 rating and shoots 900 golf, that is a reward. </font>



And Wayne, same thing either way, you can have big numbers for points or little numbers.
Player 900 - shoots 950 = 950 or 50.
Since we are working with the likes of Duff, FurDog and Hinds, I should probably use the smaller numbers. :D
The problem with that is if a player shoots below their rating do you take away points? I don't want to do that. Thats why i think it should be your rated rounds for each team member added together.

Ok DkWD, what score would I have to have at "The Lodge" to = a 811 rating?

there is a concern amongst some of the players that there is not an opportunity for some golfers because they are not in a circle of friends and are not getting invited to play, as such this may end up being a popularity contest amungst the elite players and leaves the lesser known or less popular players out to build teams that can not be competitive.

there in lies the rub. each player is playing against the best score of the round therfore nobuddy knows the rating to stroke count until a round is thrown :confused:

team scenario
team A totals 2500 ratings
team B totals 2200 ratings
where is the competition there?

contest amungst the elite players



There is no such thing as "elite players" Brad.

There's ME, and then there's everybody else. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I'll cut off Coda on highway 169 just like I would cut you off. :D

there in lies the rub. each player is playing against the best score of the round therfore nobuddy knows the rating to stroke count until a round is thrown :confused:



Exactly! Shoot the best golf you can and it will be reflected in your points. The point your missing is...... it is what the player does that day, not what he can tell you he has done in the past. If you do a handicap system where a player has stokes going in then you create a sandbagging competiion. In ball golf it is so common that a tournament I used to play, they stopped it by giving the highest pay out to 3rd and the lowest to 1st. Why? Its real hard to sandbag into third.

there is a concern amongst some of the players that there is not an opportunity for some golfers because they are not in a circle of friends and are not getting invited to play, as such this may end up being a popularity contest amungst the elite players and leaves the lesser known or less popular players out to build teams that can not be competitive.



I just don't buy this. :confused:

Did you not see a page or two back where I posted a list of all Oklahoma players with ratings? :o There are more teams in that list than we can handle. As for the players with no PDGA membership or rating and they feel left out, I guess that just another reason to become a member.

You mention elite players?

aggreed is ther going to be a tierd payout? AS TO ALLOW opportunity for the less stacked teams.


one division ie Team totals seems to reward the best players with all proceeds from the less competitive less consistant teams.

i would suspect that the title for this event could come down to a race between no greater than 2 teams.

Wow....I didn't think this would be that difficult to grasp when we were talking about it at B-ville. I'm not going to get into the scoring, so Wise can handle that.

As far as you comment about...there is a concern amongst some of the players that there is not an opportunity for some golfers because they are not in a circle of friends and are not getting invited to play, as such this may end up being a popularity contest amungst the elite players and leaves the lesser known or less popular players out to build teams that can not be competitive.

How many players have there been at Dovillio lately?? There are plenty of players out there. If they want to start a team, get out there and beat the bush. And as far as being competitive, that is a benefit of this system. You score well and you're competing. I think it would be BS to spot strokes because player A's rating is lower than player B. Player A just needs to score better /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

how will the teams play this ?
will the pro members play pro members and the other members play on their perspective members cards with atotal tally at the end of each round?

team scenario
team A totals 2500 ratings
team B totals 2200 ratings
where is the competition there?



Again Brad I just don't see the point.
You assume that a team with 2200 rating points will shoot 2200 or the team with 2500 rating points will shoot 2500. Its what the team shoots that day. A team with 2200 could have lets say Paul Dorries, he is rated at like 913 but has averaged over 950 in his rounds and some higher than that. On the flip side you could have a player like Kyle wilkes at a 970 and he goes out and posts a 935.

Ams have a much higher chance of shooting above their ratings thant the pro or pro masters do. You're a 917, are you telling me thats the best you can do at the Lodge?

aggreed is ther going to be a tierd payout? AS TO ALLOW opportunity for the less stacked teams.


one division ie Team totals seems to reward the best players with all proceeds from the less competitive less consistant teams.

i would suspect that the title for this event could come down to a race between no greater than 2 teams.



While I'm not against a flight payout how is your scenerio any different than any tournament you play?

do you expect to score better than somebody at the top of the building curve?
this formula allows for some of the teams to be stacked with most of the exceptional talent.
that being the case what are those teams affraid of giving a few strokes according to the total ratings count.
there is a complete understanding on my part that the team whose members shoot lights out could win this however the team that shoots lights out if it is not a stacked team may still not have a chance to win . team a doesnt have to shhoot lights out to beat team b

most tourneys that i play have differnt divisions to distribute the talent and the payout.
by combining the teams with differnt divisions the result is one division and there is a selct few team scenarios that can win this out right with the majority of teams congregating in the middle of the pack.

how will the teams play this ?
will the pro members play pro members and the other members play on their perspective members cards with atotal tally at the end of each round?



Teams will need to be split up. We can't have a team on a card of their own.
I was thinking of putting a pro and adv from each team with a pro and adv from another team for the rounds from the Blues. That puts a Pro Master and Am together. Then switch it for the round from the whites.

I am wondering if it would be possible to meet with some of the TDSA members to specifically address this issue. It appears to be an issue that requires a lot of careful thought and input. I like the way ideas are being tossed around on the board but, time is not always our friend. From a business perspective, I see this as an opportunity for TDSA to do some really good work and set the standard for team events. I also think that this idea has met with enough enthusiasm that it may well turn into a popular event. My suggestion is this, let's get together, maybe over beer on me, and try to map out a good draft. I would then like to have our fellow dger's to have their opportunity to review and make suggestions. I have already talked to an old friend of mine and he is interested in becoming a sponsor of disc golf, another virgin like me. He is the owner of Magoo's Billiards at 51st &amp; Memorial. Is there some evening soon that several of us could get together for a discussion. From my position, I would like to see a good draft of the rules, everyone meet at Magoo's for discussion, get the draft to WAFDA and NWADG. Get a copy to Norman and OKC. I would like to see guys like Mitchell and others have an opportunity for review and input. It looks like we have a winning idea here and an opportunity to set the standard. I am willing to travel to Arkansas, OKC, Norman, Kansas, wherever to ensure this thing gets its best shot. And, Jerry, not forgetting who got this all started, since the subject originated in tulsa, I would like at least one or two TDSA people to make the trips with me. This is just how I like to do business, not saying it has to be done this way but, here again, it's food for thought.

team not on a card of their own?duh! why not?duh!

To answer your question...YES!! I don't play to lose...

So, what you're saying is....and I'll use myself as an example.

I'm rated 944(until Saturday :D) Suppose I am playing against Coda who is rated 1018. Are you saying that I should get strokes, just to be competitive?? You can change that to 844 versus 918. In my opinion, thats a load of *****. I guess I must be confused with this giving strokes nonsense. Someone dumb this down for me, please!!

do you expect to score better than somebody at the top of the building curve? <font color="red">explain building curve </font>
this formula allows for some of the teams to be stacked with most of the exceptional talent. <font color="red"> Why would you not want the best players you can find for each division on your team? </font>
that being the case what are those teams affraid of giving a few strokes according to the total ratings count.
there is a complete understanding on my part that the team whose members shoot lights out could win this however the team that shoots lights out if it is not a stacked team may still not have a chance to win . team a doesnt have to shhoot lights out to beat team b <font color="red">I still don't see it. Your team will have to be on its game that day, as any team would if they expect to win. Your scenerio is starting to sound like a democrat campaign platform. Take from the haves and give to the have nots. :o You act like a team can be stacked, how so? 1 pro, 1 pro master, 1 adv and 1 am. Granted while one Am may have a better rating that another, is it automatic that the higher rated Am will be the lower rated one that day? Come on Brad, you of all people should know better have you not beat or tied me at Dovillio lately? you're a 916, I'm a 950, based on your thought that should never or can't happen, then how does that happen. Its called Golf and its not what have you done for me lately, its what can you do for me today. </font>

if a player has the history to have a rating as does player two,
player one doesnt have the skill package to compete head to head with player two ,
ther fore when money is on the line player two gives a spread of strokes to leval the playing field
#2 is rated 40 points higher that computes to 4 strokes thathe may give to #1 as he has shown the consistant capability to score at least 4 strokes better.
now each player must at least play to their perspective rating to relatively tie at the end however if either player tanks a couple of hole opportuntiy may be lost.

JIm, the event is not a democarcy, I am a DICKtator. :D

We could discuss it till we are all blue in the face and still not come up with a perfect situation that would please everyone involved. What we will do is try and consider all players involved and make it as fair as possible to all of those players. As any event that grows over time, changes are made each year to better accomodate the players and try and level the playing field. This is done through player feed back. Critisism of an event can be a good thing, it is the only way I know to understand what the players didn't like. ;)

if a player has the history to have a rating as does player two,
player one doesnt have the skill package to compete head to head with player two ,
ther fore when money is on the line player two gives a spread of strokes to leval the playing field
#2 is rated 40 points higher that computes to 4 strokes thathe may give to #1 as he has shown the consistant capability to score at least 4 strokes better.
now each player must at least play to their perspective rating to relatively tie at the end however if either player tanks a couple of hole opportuntiy may be lost.



Sorry but you didn't answer my question as to how you can tie or beat me when my rating is almost 40 points higher than yours?


To save a lot of time here, I'll try to make it clear.

THERE WILL BE NO HANDICAP STROKE SYSTEM IN THIS EVENT. This will be a points event. Now if you have a points system that you think will work, let me know.

Sorry Brad but you're not going to get to bag on your 916. Either shoot above that or let your team down. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

More like a "Limp-tator" IMO.

Maybe teams should be drawn at random.

i personally can play way over my rating at any time as well as well below my rating at any time. but he ratings are a measure of capabuilty .
all i know is i want to be on the team who is stacked on the building curve as that greatly improves that teams odds at winning.
the measureing devise to build the teams has history greater than a couple of rounds in a day.
do you believe this is going to create a10 team race at the finish or a two team race at the finish?

I understand giving strokes when playing head to head, although I don't buy it.

This is a team event...Giving strokes just doesn't make any sense to me, in a TEAM event. I'll guess we'll agree to disagree. That is what is cool to me about this idea. The TEAM can help each other offset the elite player. Remember, this is 4 v 4.

I am wondering if it would be possible to meet with some of the TDSA members to specifically address this issue. It appears to be an issue that requires a lot of careful thought and input. I like the way ideas are being tossed around on the board but, time is not always our friend. From a business perspective, I see this as an opportunity for TDSA to do some really good work and set the standard for team events. I also think that this idea has met with enough enthusiasm that it may well turn into a popular event. My suggestion is this, let's get together, maybe over beer on me, and try to map out a good draft. I would then like to have our fellow dger's to have their opportunity to review and make suggestions. I have already talked to an old friend of mine and he is interested in becoming a sponsor of disc golf, another virgin like me. He is the owner of Magoo's Billiards at 51st &amp; Memorial. Is there some evening soon that several of us could get together for a discussion. From my position, I would like to see a good draft of the rules, everyone meet at Magoo's for discussion, get the draft to WAFDA and NWADG. Get a copy to Norman and OKC. I would like to see guys like Mitchell and others have an opportunity for review and input. It looks like we have a winning idea here and an opportunity to set the standard. I am willing to travel to Arkansas, OKC, Norman, Kansas, wherever to ensure this thing gets its best shot. And, Jerry, not forgetting who got this all started, since the subject originated in tulsa, I would like at least one or two TDSA people to make the trips with me. This is just how I like to do business, not saying it has to be done this way but, here again, it's food for thought.



Texas teams is a well established event that is built the way you are talking Jim. Teams from a bunch of different cities in Texas meet and battle.

This team event we have been talking about is different in that it was, I believe, designed to be limited to 18 teams. 4 players per team, spit up Pro/Am style. This would keep it a more local affair I would think, due to the cap.

And Wise's idea of splitting a Pro with the Adv, a Master with and Am, and then switching...Pro/Am, Master/Adv. Is REALLY SWEET!

Some of the best, and most memorable, rounds of my life have been played with the likes of Daryl Johnson and Joe Terfertiller.

The ratings system should work perfectly as long as the PDGA will calculate them for us...which I am sure they will.

I hope that, if not this year, in years to come there will be teams coming out of the woodwork to come and compete.


But as for Arkansas, Kansas, Texas.....the WORLD!!

JIM...you could host WORLD TEAMS at THE LODGE!!

It would be the Ryder Cup of Disc Golf!!!!! (Patent Pending)

hey now im just wasting time on this board this morning.
id like toplay golf thats whartmatters
i just dont see allot of teams being built that can compete at the top.
therfore i dont see many teams supporting the winners KNOWING they dont have a competive chance to win.
i can guess that there may be 4 eleite teams that are going to go 1 thru 4 and the rest will follow.
id be willing to once the teams are posted to tell who is going to win.
the upsets arnt going to happen that shift those most staked to the back of the field

i personally can play way over my rating at any time as well as well below my rating at any time.

Exactly, play over your rating and be an asset to your team. Play below, and well, you let yourself and your team down. It works the exact same whether you're a 1000 rated pro or an 850 rated am.

hey now im just wasting time on this board this morning.
id like toplay golf thats whartmatters
i just dont see allot of teams being built that can compete at the top.
therfore i dont see many teams supporting the winners KNOWING they dont have a competive chance to win.
i can guess that there may be 4 eleite teams that are going to go 1 thru 4 and the rest will follow.
id be willing to once the teams are posted to tell who is going to win.
the upsets arnt going to happen that shift those most staked to the back of the field



Brad are you reading what Wise and Penny are posting.

You are dead wrong.

People never shoot their rating... it is almost always different.

If my team was Coda, Mitch Mac, Me, and Some max rated Am...

A somewhat "loaded" team...except for me of course....

....that team, that "loaded team" has a WAY lower chance of shooting their projected rating than a lower rated combo...

Coda HAS TO have the best round of everyone or he will screw his team...

Understand?

I am wondering if it would be possible to meet with some of the TDSA members to specifically address this issue. It appears to be an issue that requires a lot of careful thought and input. I like the way ideas are being tossed around on the board but, time is not always our friend. From a business perspective, I see this as an opportunity for TDSA to do some really good work and set the standard for team events. I also think that this idea has met with enough enthusiasm that it may well turn into a popular event. My suggestion is this, let's get together, maybe over beer on me, and try to map out a good draft. I would then like to have our fellow dger's to have their opportunity to review and make suggestions. I have already talked to an old friend of mine and he is interested in becoming a sponsor of disc golf, another virgin like me. He is the owner of Magoo's Billiards at 51st &amp; Memorial. Is there some evening soon that several of us could get together for a discussion. From my position, I would like to see a good draft of the rules, everyone meet at Magoo's for discussion, get the draft to WAFDA and NWADG. Get a copy to Norman and OKC. I would like to see guys like Mitchell and others have an opportunity for review and input. It looks like we have a winning idea here and an opportunity to set the standard. I am willing to travel to Arkansas, OKC, Norman, Kansas, wherever to ensure this thing gets its best shot. And, Jerry, not forgetting who got this all started, since the subject originated in tulsa, I would like at least one or two TDSA people to make the trips with me. This is just how I like to do business, not saying it has to be done this way but, here again, it's food for thought.



Texas teams is a well established event that is built the way you are talking Jim. Teams from a bunch of different cities in Texas meet and battle.

This team event we have been talking about is different in that it was, I believe, designed to be limited to 18 teams. 4 players per team, spit up Pro/Am style. This would keep it a more local affair I would think, due to the cap.

And Wise's idea of splitting a Pro with the Adv, a Master with and Am, and then switching...Pro/Am, Master/Adv. Is REALLY SWEET!

Some of the best, and most memorable, rounds of my life have been played with the likes of Daryl Johnson and Joe Terfertiller.

The ratings system should work perfectly as long as the PDGA will calculate them for us...which I am sure they will.

I hope that, if not this year, in years to come there will be teams coming out of the woodwork to come and compete.


But as for Arkansas, Kansas, Texas.....the WORLD!!

JIM...you could host WORLD TEAMS at THE LODGE!!

It would be the Ryder Cup of Disc Golf!!!!! (Patent Pending)



I think I got page hacked...

Actually I display like 15 posts per page, I think that is different from the default browser....

You have yet to answer even one of my questions?

What is the building curve?
How is it that you can beat or tie me when my rating is 40 points higher than yours?

Granted, ratings are a reflection of your game over time, this determines divisions. It in no way gurantees that you will perform on that day.

Now on to your handicap expample.
Brad 916
Furdog 811

You're spotting him 11 strokers per round.
Furdog shoots a 64 for a 890 rated round, you shoot a 59 for a 920. Furdog now has you by 6 strokes.
Second round, you shoot another 59for a 920 and fur dog shoots his rating with a 69 for an 811. He beats you by a total of 7 strokes.

On the points side you end up with 1840 Furdog ends up with 1701, now your ahead by 139 points.

Which looks more likely to you?

no way is this the case if a team is loaded with exceptional rated members it be comes a some of its members.
there fore it can as one play a mediocre tourny and still win.
all other teams are also a sum of there members and have to shoot exceptional to even play to the mediocre leval of anothe team.

Not true Brad. I'm very likely to go out there and shoot 910 golf, since Im rated at 950, how is that helping my team total?

A pro player will more than likey have a rating of above 950, coda is about a 1018. That spread can be zeroed out after one round. Coda shoots a 980 and the other shoots a 980. same points.
It will work this way across the divisions.
Why would you have an advanced player with a rating of below 935? You wouldn't. So advance is 935 up to about 970, that is still a spread that can be over come with good play.
Ams - this is where a team can make a move. The likely hood of of am playing above his rating is MUCH greater that me or Coda playing above our rating. This format helps the lower divisions.

Players should not be given strokes for a team event, period!

I noticed you didn't respond to my points vs. ratings scenerio that I gave you?

Bump

Brad, how about some answers to these questions?


You have yet to answer even one of my questions?

How is it that you can beat or tie me when my rating is 40 points higher than yours?


Now on to your handicap expample.
Brad 916
Furdog 811

You're spotting him 11 strokers per round.
Furdog shoots a 64 for a 890 rated round, you shoot a 59 for a 920. Furdog now has you by 6 strokes.
Second round, you shoot another 59for a 920 and fur dog shoots his rating with a 69 for an 811. He beats you by a total of 7 strokes.

On the points side you end up with 1840 Furdog ends up with 1701, now your ahead by 139 points.

Which looks more likely to you?

idont believe that all the players on the highly staked teams will play under their capabilities.
i also dont think that the lower staked players of another team are all going to score greater than their abilities
i see the stacked teams walking away with this competition because they can play below their capabilities and still score better than another team scoring lights out
therfore the team totals function as one
team one can play poorly while still playing alot better than team two

edit.......

no need to beat a dead horse

842 Adv. Grand looking to find a team to play on.
I can play over that rating (see last event)
remember I always play better in the cold and damp anyway.

idont believe that all the players on the highly staked teams will play under their capabilities.
i also dont think that the lower staked players of another team are all going to score greater than their abilities
i see the stacked teams walking away with this competition because they can play below their capabilities and still score better than another team scoring lights out
therfore the team totals function as one
team one can play poorly while still playing alot better than team two




Okay Brad, lets use YOU as an example.

I went back over some of your most recent rated rounds of tournaments you have played this year. Your highest round was a 959 and your lowest was a 867.

Looks to me that you have the capability to play on either side of your rating of 917. You have a 92 point swing. So it depends on what you shoot that day.

For me, my last tournament with ratings, I had rounds from 891 to 969. thats a 70 point swing. But according to you I have a less likely hood of shooting below my rating? My best was 19 points above and my worst was 59 points below my rating.

Go look at the munbers and get off this stroke thing.

Thats the atitude Martin. You'd make a great Am player for a team. I know you can shoot above 900. ;)

Melissa would be another good Am, I know she can shoot way above that 836 she currently has. ;)


I will keep the flighted payout in mind though. Could be a good idea.

i haave n doubt that i could contribute to a team.
i,m not trying to get srokes.
i simply see that this could be a race between a couple of teams leaving a great number of teams in their dust

Melissa would be another good Am, I know she can shoot way above that 836 she currently has. ;)




Thanks Wise! And let me add the fact that my rating will go DOWN at the next rating update cuz I played HORRIBLE at Alma!

And Wayne, same thing either way, you can have big numbers for points or little numbers.
Player 900 - shoots 950 = 950 or 50. ... ah , but the difference being the "player's-rating" (pre-event) ... that 950-round would net 50-points for a 900-rated-player ... but the same round-of-950 would cause a 970-rated-played to lose -20 points ... ay ? ...


.
... lotsa options ... Ratings ... handicaps based on Ratings ... pure-stroke-play-scoring ... using-"points"-for-scoring ... etc. ... last-minute player "substitutions" ... etc. ...
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... I remain in full confidence that whatever parameters and guidelines are set-up in advance will be a fair and level-playing-field for all concerned ... it should be good , fun times ...

I say screw the strokes. I want 15 mulligans. :D

Ok, split the pot into 2 rounds. one round of stroke and one round of ratings play. See which one works best for future events.

If you were doing ratings base wouldn't you be better off trying to get 4 900 rated golfers to shoot 950 rated rounds for 200 pnts than 4 950 rated golfers to shoot 1000 rated rounds? It almost sets up to sandbag the other way going down. Load the team with 850 rated players and hope they play well and shoot 900+ rated rounds.

I posted that same argument to Brad about (actually exactly) 16 posts ago, and it seemed to make no impact.

The higher the sum of all of the members of your team the more difficult it will be for you to amass a rating total that exceeds that.

In other words, Brad, this event is actually ALL ABOUT putting the spotlight on those "lesser know and less popular players" but in no way is this going to equate to a popularity contest. Popularity doesn't get birdies.

I think it would be wise to suspend this thread until we have a finished flyer with a concise rules statement to avoid future confusion...

Ok, heres an example with some random numbers.

Is this how it's going to work?

Team # 1
Pro: Jared Pennington / Rated 980 / Rd1 1096 / Rd2 1026 = (+162)
Pro Master: Dave Wise / Rated 950 / Rd1 955 / Rd 2 879 = (-66)
Adv: Andrew Treat / Rated 950 / Rd1 932 / Rd2 891 = (-77)
Am: John Barton / Rated 872 / Rd1 955 / Rd2 925 = (+ 136)

Total Team Rating / 3938 / Actual Finish (+155)

Team # 2
Pro: Coda Hatfield / Rated 1018 / Rd1 1038 / Rd2 992 = (-6)
Pro Master: Kelly Watson / Rated 938 / Rd1 944 / Rd 2 936 = (+4)
Adv: Josh Crowel / Rated 958 / Rd 1 967 / Rd 2 958 = (+9)
Am: Jay Slack / Rated 907 / Rd 1 849 / Rd 2 857 = (-108)

Total Team Rating / 3763 / Actual Finish (-101)

Team # 3
Pro: Chris Wagle / Rated 965 / Rd1 920 / Rd2 970 = (-40)
Pro Master: Bill Pennington / Rated 947 / Rd1 955 / Rd2 958 = (+8)
Adv: Paul Dorries / Rated 917 / Rd1 944 / Rd2 936 = (+46)
Am: Mickey Brookshire / Rated 914 / Rd1 908 / Rd2 913 = (-7)

Total Team Rating / 3770 / Actual Finish (+9)

Team # 4
Pro: Kevin Holmes / Rated 987 / Rd1 979 / Rd2 947 = (-48)
Pro Master: Dan Bougher / Rated 943 / Rd1 967 / Rd2 913 = (-6)
Adv: Adam Hunt / Rated 934 / Rd1 955 / Rd2 992 = (+79)
Am: David Robison / Rated 872 / Rd1 849 / Rd2 925 = (+20)

Total Team Rating / 3736 / Actual Finish (+45)

Team # 5
Pro: Furdog / Rated 811 / Rd1 802 / Rd2 830 = (+10)
Pro Master / Wayne Forest / Rated 873 / Rd1 831 / Rd2 837 = (-78)
Adv: Jerry Stacey / Rated 935 / Rd1 904 / Rd2 941 = (-25)
Harlyn Unruh / Rated 915 / Rd1 935 / Rd2 931 = (+36)

Total Team Rating / 3593 / Actual Finish (-57)

These are GREAT examples. However, you're throwing Jared Pennington in with shooting a course record on a course that was in the shorts. I don't see anyone shooting 1096 golf at Pawhuska, including Coda.

Using the proposed point system team 1 would win, team 2, 2nd, team 4, 3rd and team 3, 4th. With only 39 points between 2nd and 4th. (39 Points is only 4 strokes over two rounds!)
Team 1 - 7695
team 2 - 7541
team 3 - 7504
Team 4 - 7527
Team 5 - 7017

Now if you apply Jarred with his current rating of 980 and assume he shoots 980, then
Team 1 - 7497
team 2 - 7541
team 3- 7504
team 4 - 7527

So under this assumption team 2 would win but by less than 50 points.

We won't use team 5 as that is nothing more than a donation but team 5 would still have over 7000 points. :o


If you use just the players pre-event rating and give them a plus or minus points for the amount above or below their rating, then it would be like this.

Team 1 +155
Team 2 -101
Team 3 +7
Team 4 +45
Team 5 -57

It would apprear that the points system will put teams closer together than a +/-, as with the points there are no point reductions.

WHY DID YOU "ASSUME" THAT DAVE WISE WOULD BE ON JAREDS TEAM....????

First of all, how the hell are you calculating and coming up with these points? :confused:

Team 1 - 7695
team 2 - 7541
team 3 - 7504
Team 4 - 7527
Team 5 - 7017

The overall pre-event combined ratings break down like this:

Team 1 Start Rating: 3938
Team 2 Start Rating: 3763
Team 3 Start Rating: 3770
Team 4 Start Rating: 3736
Team 5 Start Rating: 3593

In this format:

Team 1 +155
Team 2 -101
Team 3 +7
Team 4 +45
Team 5 -57

Team 5 finishes 4th while in your proposed system team 5 finishes 5th.

WHY DID YOU "ASSUME" THAT DAVE WISE WOULD BE ON JAREDS TEAM....????



That's another thing, I think the teams should be made up in a random draw.

It will probably bring in more players and it will allow people to play with people they normally don't play with.

The luck of the draw will prevent the so called "SuperTeam".

Aw shucks, I think I would like to be wanted rather than just a luck of the draw for this event. :o
a lucky draw is fine for small stuff, up to and including our great 180 :cool:events, with three grades of players.....but
I would like to actually be wanted on a team for a change rather than someone feeling stuck with me! :D

No random draw.

As we discussed at length...the super team will, more than likley not be a factor...

Besides, a random draw could create even more powerful super teams....

First of all, how the hell are you calculating and coming up with these points? :confused:

Team 1 - 7695
team 2 - 7541
team 3 - 7504
Team 4 - 7527
Team 5 - 7017

The overall pre-event combined ratings break down like this:

Team 1 Start Rating: 3938
Team 2 Start Rating: 3763
Team 3 Start Rating: 3770
Team 4 Start Rating: 3736
Team 5 Start Rating: 3593

In this format:

Team 1 +155
Team 2 -101
Team 3 +7
Team 4 +45
Team 5 -57

Team 5 finishes 4th while in your proposed system team 5 finishes 5th.



Take the rating totals for the rounds that were shot and add them all together for each player.

The overall pre-event combined total has nothing to do with it. Each player's rating going in only determines divisions. Points are based on the actual rated round that is shot. I just feel you should earn your points based on your play that day. But I don't feel a player should have points taken away because they didn't play up to a rating that may or may not be old but is still only based off of past performance. I think they should be rewarded with what they deserve for that day and that round.
Hell, I may have a horrible round and shoot 840 :oI don't want points taken away, just give what I earned.
And if I shoot 990, then that is my reward, all 990 points worth of it.

And if you happen to have a real bad or even semi-bad round, why compound it by putting a BIG MINUS next to it? ;)

There will be no random draw. There is TOOOOooo much money up for grabs. :o

I can already tell you we have <font color="red"> $1,000 </font> added cash and if we can get $400 more and 18 teams signed up we will have a <font color="red"> $5,000++++!!!!!!!!! </font> event. THANKS JIM TAYLOR! He's out hustling up added cash money as we speak. :D

With this much involved I am seriously considering a flighted pay out, of course we would need a full roster of 18 teams to make it workable.

And don't forget, after the event The Taylors will be welcoming everyone that wants to camp, party and just hang out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what you're saying is:

Furdog at (811 rating) shoots 815 &amp; 820 = 1635

&amp;

You (950 rating) shoot 965 &amp; 970 = 1935

You win??? :confused:....That's a bunch of BS. :p

what do you mean I win? :confused:

You're not in my division, as a matter of fact, once we start there are no divisions, this is a TEAM event!

Remember, there is no "I" in "team". ;) :D

Ok, let's try someone else for example.

Jay Slack (rated 907) Let's imagine shoots exactly 907 on both rounds for a total of 1814. In other words, he shot what is expected.

I (rated 811) Shoot an 811 and a 820 (9 points over my rating) for a total of 1631.

Do I win because I shot 9 points over my rating? :confused:

Sorry buddy. I wouldn't be questioning you if I thought you knew what you were doing.

point to the dog,
no one is likely to want an 846 and under player based just on score or round rating (which is based on score against the field) each team will attempt to field the highest rated player for each catagory required and that will leave Mel, Dog, Doc, and myself as spectators.
I love the lodge but as a player not as a watcher. I can just hang out at home and enjoy being married.

Ok, well that's what I thought Martin but I was just trying to see if this was going to become an exclusive event or something that anyone had a chance at.

Wayne had 18 teams with a random draw at the last Chandler night flights and why someone like Dave or Andrew would be scared of a random draw I don't know but I assume it's because they fear having someone like me on their team. :p

You're both wrong.

Martin, If I flight it, which I am thinking of doing. Then after the first round the field is divided in half. There is your handicap system.

FurDog, why should an 811 player be rewarded more heavily that a 934 player? So you shoot 820 and the other player shoots 930, he beats you by 9 strokes, you shoot 820 golf and you want it so you win with that? Now that BS! :mad:
Sorry but 820 golf should get no more than 820 points.

and if you shoot 870 and he has the round from freaking hell and shoots 870, then your even. :D

Did Wayne's event have $5,000 up for grabs, did each player put up $50 to get in?

NO RANDOM DRAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See, this is why I had to gripe all day and night just to get you to have a "hot dog" division at the Turkey skins.

It shouldn't matter what my rating is if I shoot above it on that day and the guy in my division who is supposed to be a better AM doesn't then I should be rewarded for going above and beyond while the higher rated player did nothing but what was already expected of him. :p

You keep confusing this with people in your division. YOU"RE NOT PLAYING IN A DIVISION!

You're playing on a Phuking team dumbazzzz! it takes all 4 players. And just because you're rated 811 doesn't mean you should win over someone that beats you by 10 strokes, just because you farted and now you shoot 815.

Its Team score moron!

I agreed to flight it and thats as close to a hot dog division as you'r going to get. Besides this is a two round event and you haven't been able to complete one of those in the last year. :o

Just for you FurDog, let me explain flighting to you.
All teams will play the first round. After round 1 teams in 1st through 9 will be in flight "A" teams 10th through 18th will be in flight "B".

Now go play the second round with two divisions of teams. This is by far the best handicaping system that still rewards what you and Martin call the lower teams.
Teams 10th, 11th and 12th get paid. Sorry buddy but I can't pay it out through 18th. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Well its obvious after reading all this that an agreement will not be reach easily..well i want to throw my 2 cents in with an idea i think would at least work towards getting the most people out to play and take advantage of the ratings idea that wise has..

first you take an average of all divisions involved and add it together
Pro.. 970-1039=1005
Masters.. 935-1000=968
Adv.........935-1004=970
Am..........900-935=918
for a total of 3861 i used the highest rated person in each division i could find ..im sure a pro master is above 1000 but couldnt find it

Now you use this total ratings points to build your team as you like ...maybe you have 3 pros and a junior,or 4 advanced players...whatever you want to do this would allow alot more teams to be built as it would be easier for a person to contact people in his immidiate circle to play with and would make lower rated players a real advantage since theres more room for improvement..then you just use total strokes you dont have to keep points at all

Well obviously some "mediation" might be in order, especially since the TD is both, making the rules, calling the shots, and already has his team together with some, in his words, (haven't done anything lately), players. :confused:...No wonder the "random draw" was vetoed because plans and teams and angles are already being drawn. ;)

Is this what life has come down to people? :confused:

Doesn't anyone have any faith that good things happen to people that take life easy and don't pre-plan for tomorrow? ;)

now i remember why the tahlequah thing did not happen last

let one person run this event
if you do not like it
dont play
if you have a better idea
i am sure jim would consider letting you give one of your ideas a try and you can run an event
but the (female dogging) over and over about what ?

Female doggin? ....Doesn't everyone sooner or later do it "doggie" style?... :confused:

I think it would be wise to suspend this thread until we have a finished flyer with a concise rules statement to avoid future confusion...


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... on the contrary ... I think Wise is "wise" enough to gauge-and-measure all feedback , opinions , and responses to this li'l thread before he sets-up a Flyer as "concrete" ... there are plenty of other conversations and discussions ongoing elsewhere away-from-this-sports-board ... remember that only about 6% of disc-golf players and enthusiasts ever read or post here ... that leaves ninety-fore percent untouched by this thread ... and that's where you'll find "the numbers" , , , the masses , , , the silent majority ... :cool:

Pro Master / Wayne Forest / Rated 873 / Rd1 831 / Rd2 837 = (-78)


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... hey ! ... whut the hey ? ... minus 78 ? ... you been peekin' at my game lately er what ? ... :eek:

likley



(them lawyer-types with all them big wurds) ... gotcha , Andrew ! ...



/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

... a coupla other "gems" to mull over ...
.
... Bowling is a sport where "handicapping" is used to increase their numbers across-the-board ... there are some "Scratch Leagues" where nothing factors-in-to Results (repeat: nothing) BUT that day of competition ... the scores achieved right then-and-there ... they add up , best scores win ... simple ... usually those few who can hold their average at 225 or better ... maybe 210 ... for the "elite" , top-notch Bowlers ...


...some of the ideas above imply same ... "Scratch" ... best game-totals-that-day ... whether it's done in "points" -or- "strokes" ... same effect ... same results ... on any given day and Course ... any color tee-pads ... one round ... two rounds ... twenty-seven rounds ... Good and Great players will still have a tendency to score Good and Great scores ... Medium and Mediocre players will have a tendency to score Medium and Mediocre scores ...
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... the REAL-dollars (for Brunswick , AMC , Ebonite , etc.) are found elsewhere in popularity ... ... much-more-commonly enjoyed and attended are the Leagues and Competitions and Tournaments where "handicaps" are implemented ...
.
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... as for Disc Golf ... "Teams" of Disc-Golfing enthusiasts wanting-to-enter-and-play ; coming-to-enter-and-play ; enjoying-to-enter-and-play ...
... only way to level-the-field , make-it-a-horse-race , balance-the-Teams is either :

... "cap" the Team power and potential ... ie , 4 players (men or women) not to exceed 3700 points (current ratings) ... then just play rounds with "total-team-strokes" ... simple ...
( see also NFL ; salary-cap ; results swing from year to year as the lower-paid (rated) players catch fire , and the big-bucks-players (elite) don't produce ; s'not a perfect system , but it helps level talent and teams )
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... or "handicap" ... which , by-the-way , is never set at the-full-amount-of-difference ... usually works around 60% to 70% ... ie : that 920-player and the 811-Furdog compete-over-18-Holes (what-the-pdga-numbers-are-designed-to-compare) ... now FurDawg shouldn't get 11 strokes ... not even 10 ... more like 7 strokes ... the 920-guy shoots a score of 57 ... FurryDog scores 65 ... 920-dude wins by one stroke ...
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... ay ? ... :cool:

... :confused: ... then again ... when did that 3-syllable-word "handicap" get it's reputation-tarnished and become a "bad" word ? ... :confused:
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... Bowling Leagues use it to fill-the-parking-lots and fill-the-house ... daily ; monthly ; yearly ; little tournaments ; Big tournaments ... worldwide ... Millions and Millions in the U.S. of A. alone ...
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... they apply it ... it works ... they can't awl be wrong ... ay , Doc1243 ? ... ;)

... one other "soapbox thought" ...
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... FurDog and his mangy li'l rating 811 catches lightning-in-a-bottle and plays 18-holes at the Lodge (whatever-tee-colors) ... Dawg plays Flawless disc-golf ... drives , approaches , putts ... hits every fairway for-his-Team ... scores his best-ever round at 52 ... his score gets him 955 points ! ...
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... Jared (rated at 990) ... same tees ... usually a much-better-player than FurDog ... hits trees , misses putts , throws O.B. ... scores a 52 ... 955 points ...
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... which "Team-Player" stunk-up-the-joint (trees,putts,O.B.) ? ...

... and which "Team-Player" blazed-like-never-before-and-never-again (flawless , couldn't-miss) ... ? .
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.
.
.
.
.
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... oh but wait ,,, they're tied ... 955 to 955 ...
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:confused:
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... imo

good point Forest!!!
the previous post not the one above mine!!!

and Jim I would be glad to go anywhere with you just call and we will get it done!!!

cant compare different team leval players to one another
only equal leval team members
team A player 1 with team B player 1 so on so on
not player 4 with player 1 from another team

I remember when Disc Golf was such a simple sport..

The lowest score won, even I could grasp that concept..

Now your going to need an IBM water cooled super computer to run this event :cool:

I remember when Disc Golf was such a simple sport..

The lowest score won, even I could grasp that concept..

Now your going to need an IBM water cooled super computer to run this event :cool:



That is pretty much it in a nutshell. In other words, this is a tough subject to broach. As you will notice, I am staying completely away from commenting because I do not know my head from a hole in the ground. What I am seeing though, is that those who have a genuine concern for the sport are certainly willing to make some very good points as to what their concerns are with respect to this team event. Personally I am very excited about the concept and very impressed with all the input. I agree with mike in the above post but, someone has to work it out. Kudos to Dave Wise for accepting the challenge. I think we are going to see more of team events and this TDSA group is pioneering new ground. That is why I am so proud to be involved. Something new and challenging, TDSA is up for the challenge, ger er done. :cool:

cant compare different team leval players to one another
only equal leval team members
team A player 1 with team B player 1 so on so on
not player 4 with player 1 from another team


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... okee-doak ...
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... so check this :
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... picture a two-team contested Tournament ...

... the Team Arkadelphia Ace-Runners below :
Player 1 = Ernie Elz (rated 978) shoots 46 (score-rated at 980)
Player 2 = Arnie LaMastus ( 950 ) shoots 48 (rated at 960)
Player 3 = Keldawg Woods ( 935 ) shoots 48 (rated at 960)
Player 4 = Bill Clinton ( 932 ) shoots 54 (rated at 900)

... the Team Texas Teetotalers below :
Player 1 = Sam Lonestar ( 978 ) shoots 46 (rated at 980)
Player 2 = Randy RedRiver ( 950 ) shoots 48 (rated at 960)
Player 3 = Adam MurphysLaw ( 935 ) shoots 48 (rated at 960)
Player 4 = FurDog Okie ( 811 ) shoots 54 (rated at 900)
.
.
.
... which Team wins ? ...

cant wait for this answer

PS, By the time this event rolls around, I think we will have a pretty darn good format. As mentioned before, new concepts are not without some flaws. If you would like to help refine this concept, you need to experience it for yourself. I think we need to get one under our belt and I think Dave will have it as fair as possible for this maiden voyage. Remember, the invitation to stay longer at the lodge, fish, hike, golf or just relax. Once the smoke clears, I am sure we will have a better handle on what areas need improved. At least we're trying. "Where there is no vision, the people perish." :D

... one thing is sure about "vision" , Jim ... you got it ! ... ever the eternal optimist ... :)

Thanks for the input guys. I haven't made a final decision yet. I do want the event to accomodate as many players and levels of players as possible. It is the only way to get enough teams to fill the event.

I don't want this to come off as an elitest event and only set up for the best players. I don't know that there is a perfect system. It is difficult to level the field when there are players from 811 to 1018. There will be a new ratings update this weekend and I wiil not post any flyer until after that.
I kind of like Don's idea but I need to study it a little more and I understand Wayne's point of the same score to one person's good round and one person's bad round.

Is anyone out there a calculus major?

I want to assure everyone that I will make it as fair as possible. Maybe a ratings cap on teams could work and skip divisions all together, not sure yet but sounds workable.

I will be in study hall this weekend trying to figure it out.

Please keep your suggestion and ideas coming, it has gotten us this far and we are real close to coming up with a plan. ;)

Thanks guys and gals(Mel) :D.

... one thing is sure about "vision" , Jim ... you got it ! ... ever the eternal optimist ... :)




Thanks Wayne. I see vision in this TDSA group. :DI consider myself more of a catalyst than a visionary. Look at yourself, you are a rock solid figure in the disc golf community. Look at Dave Wise, who better than him to take this new concept, accept input, ideas and comments, and come out with a format. Let me put something else out there, when I first re-discovered disc golf (deb and I used to play frisbee football in college) I met Kevin McKoy. Now there is a TDSA guy to be proud of. In my books, The Lodge is, and always will be, KEVINS HOUSE. After that we started meeting other disc golfers and I gotta tell you, the reason we are doing what we are is because of you, disc golfers. Just as the sport has changed so much since deb and I played around with a frisbee in the park 30 some years ago, I see so much potential to market this sport. And, I consider my biggest asset in this effort my new friends in TDSA. Put it out there, my guys (TDSA) will tear it up and get er done. :cool:

Wayne has team two winning by 121 points. ;)

The problem is, it is won by FurDog which is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever seen. First off he can't finish two rounds. :o You need another example Wayne. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Oh yeah, where else can you get free entertainment like the FURDOG/TWOPUTT show, TDSA :D

Don, please build a couple of teams as you suggested with projected scores and out comes, kind of like Wayne did. I need a more detailed example to fully understand where you are coming from.
Are you saying that a team of 4 ams would have a combined team rating of 918x4=3672? Then plus or minus their score against that total?

Thanks


Well its obvious after reading all this that an agreement will not be reach easily..well i want to throw my 2 cents in with an idea i think would at least work towards getting the most people out to play and take advantage of the ratings idea that wise has.


first you take an average of all divisions involved and add it together
Pro.. 970-1039=1005
Masters.. 935-1000=968
Adv.........935-1004=970
Am..........900-935=918
for a total of 3861 i used the highest rated person in each division i could find ..im sure a pro master is above 1000 but couldnt find it

Now you use this total ratings points to build your team as you like ...maybe you have 3 pros and a junior,or 4 advanced players...whatever you want to do this would allow alot more teams to be built as it would be easier for a person to contact people in his immidiate circle to play with and would make lower rated players a real advantage since theres more room for improvement..then you just use total strokes you dont have to keep points at all

Oh yeah, where else can you get free entertainment like the FURDOG/TWOPUTT show, TDSA :D



Don't make me start with the Indian jokes. :o:D

Oh yeah, where else can you get free entertainment like the FURDOG/TWOPUTT show, TDSA :D



Don't make me start with the Indian jokes. :o:D



I need some new ones. :D:D:D

Is anyone out there a calculus major? ... probably either Treat ...

I want to assure everyone that I will make it as fair as possible. I will be in study hall this weekend trying to figure it out. ... no doubt , Wise ... your track-record (bag-tags,etc.) is impeccable ... thanks again for taking-on-this-task-and-set-up ...

grin:.

Newby alert.

I have been lurking about on this message board and can appreciate the time and effort being put forward in getting a fair system established for this team event. Now I will post my two cents in reference to the �Super Team� concerns.

The tourney needs 72 players minimum. Right? Seed all 72 players into 4 groups based on ratings (top 18 players in first group, second 18 in the second group, and so on�I will most definitely be in the fourth group if I play).

Then let Jim do a blind draw from each group to establish the four person teams. Then let the �ratings calculus� kick in after that. This draw method for establishing teams will rely on either having a cap on entries (72�or 68�or 64�or 76�or 80), but the entry cap must be divisible by four (for obvious reasons) and the cap has to be met�sound too hokey?

Sorry George but the random draw idea has already been shot down by Dave and Andrew. Probably because they have already established and put their team together. That, and according to Dave there is too much money ($50 per player + added cash) involved to let their chance of winning hinge on a random draw. :(

Thanks for the input Skinner but there will be NO RANDOM DRAW. This I am firm on, no matter what.

As I said there is too much money involved for a random draw. For events with $5 or $10 entry, sure it works great. But for a player putting $50 each, no way. ;)

I just need to come up with a plan that treat all players fairly. I want this to fill and We will need the Ams to do it. So I need a formula that makes them want to play and feel like they have a chance at some cash.

Skinner, we are talking about $5,000!

As I said there is too much money involved for a random draw. For events with $5 or $10 entry, sure it works great. But for a player putting $50 each, no way. ;)

I just need to come up with a plan that treat all players fairly. I want this to fill and We will need the Ams to do it. So I need a formula that makes them want to play and feel like they have a chance at some cash.



IMO to get the Ams to enter... ...that is if you truly need Ams to fill the event...that might not be the case when this event rolls around... ...then what better way to get them to enter than the knowledge of them being teamed with better players. As I see it...and, yes I am a bit of an outsider looking in...I don't know any pros that I could team up with...by doing a random draw (albeit, an expensive random draw), you ensure somewhat of a level playing field and put to bed any noise about "Super Teams"...again, just my two cents... I do know this, this event, whatever the final format becomes, will be lotsa fun! Brush up on that calculus! :p

Somehow I feel a little guilty about starting up a "tempest in a teapot" regarding handicapping. I do believe, however, that a handicapped event would inject a new level of excitement for the lower ranked players, who now feel that they have a chance to succeed, even when stacked up against the big dogs.

I think that Dave's suggestion about flights is one good solution. It is straightforward and easy to understand. Even if you only have a dozen teams, you could seperate them into 3 flights of 4 teams each using total ratings points per team, payout only one team per flight, and have a fair and exciting event for everyone. You could use total golf scores instead of a point system within each level, because the flighting is based on ratings, resulting in roughly equal team abilities.

I participate in World Team Tennis, and our team recently went to a national qualifier tournament in Kansas City. We lost, but we were in the hunt against teams from other states, because by and large the NTRP ratings system used for tennis really works. Recreational tennis has become vastly more popular in this country since the introduction of team events which use flights based on NTRP ratings. People love to play in teams. They want to pick their own team-mates and party with them after, either to celebrate the victory or soothe the pain of defeat. It is so much more fun that individual tennis competition.

So, why not flight into Gold, Silver, and Bronze flights, keep the Pro, Pro Master, Advanced &amp; Am format, and just use the total strokes in each flight to decide the winner within that flight, with the winning team taking all in each flight. Dave can decide what total points ratings will serve to bracket flights using whatever calculus he comes up with.

:Dthats a lotta casholaa, put me in for that weekend... if I can find a team that will take me. :confused: ;)

I understand your logic, however I have seen some SUPER teams come about from randome draw and it can also happen that 4 low rated ams get together. Now that team has almost no chance of cashing.

I'm getting close and I want the ams to have a chance but I also don't want them to have a bigger edge than any one else either. Thats the problem with pure ratings. you could put 4 915 players together against 4 990 players. I'd bet that by using ratings the 4 915 players will win most of the time. It is easier to shoot at or above 915 than it is 990. For the 990 players it is much harder to shoot above 990 than it is to shoot below it.

Lets say you have for pros at 990
1. scores 980
2. scores 1000
3. scores 970
4 scores a 975
Those are some good rounds but result in a negative -35

Ams all at 915
1. scores 920
2. scores 916
3. scores 900
4. scores a 935
This team ends up with a +26


Owwwwwww I'm getting brain freeze! :o

Thanks Jim

Want to help?

Set team rating cap at whatever number you like and then play gross score, two flights after the first 18 from the blue tees and then pay the top 3 A flight and 1st place B flight 2000,1500,1000, and 500 to B flight winner (based on 18 teams)

Jim, question.....................Would you establish the filghts pre-event or wait until after the first round scores are in, then split them up for the final round?

I lean towards after the first round, I think it shows the true capabilities of the group on that day and it should keep teams from trying to bag into a flight pre-event. Especially if they don't know the break on the flights.

If you want to really give the Ams a REAL chance cap the teams total ratings score. If your at 4 players per team, then make the total ratings score possible for a team is 3700...

that's 925 per golfer....so if a team wants Coda they will have to get a 800 golfer, with a couple of other 940's golfers......which is where the am ladies fit in and the Grand Masters.

It would only be one division

Its starting to shape up that way. By doing divisions, it appears to limit the number of teams.

Would you still flight it?

after the first round or pre-event?

I agree with Kevin on the ratings cap, but what about the locals without a rating?

We'll look back over the minis and any other events that they may have played and give them a rating. ;)

you can make the no rating local guy the average....3700 he would be 925....I think you could even make the total cap 3600 and everyone could have a pretty fair team.

I used all of the PDGA register players from Oklahoma and split them by division, then averaged their ratings. Its close to the 3700 you came up with, actually 3780.

Pros - avg 959
Pro Mast - avg 963
Adv - avg 941
Am - avg 916
Team total 3780

3600 may be a tad low. 3650 may be a good in between point that works.

Thoughts

It sounds great. When we were discussing this in Bville I had the notion it might go this way.

good question, but this is just one more reason to maintain a membership with a formal org that does ratings.
While we are always trying to grow the sport the only way we can track that growth is by people joining some org. or formal body.
we can always play non rated players into our draw events but this one seems to be beyond that scope.
odds are that several of us low rated players will not be able to get on to a team as it is so I cannot see how to include unrated players into this event.

It would be a huge plus by not having to pick players by division.

I think it could offer some interesting jockying for players.

As for the flights. I would just do two flights and split the teams right down the middle after the 1st round. If your in the top 1/2 in scores you made the A Flight, lower 1/2 B Flight. Then you can pay deeper instead of having 3 or 4 flights

Ratings cap totals sound fair and allows for the gross score to mean somthing.

Martin, you are sadly mistaken about being picked up. With the team rating cap, no division comes into play. Just make sure your team is under the cap.

Example of our team less an am player

Wilkes 974
Wise 950
Treat 950 = total 2874

This means we would need an Am at 826 or less. :o
That lets you out because you're TOO good at 842. :DThat would make Mel or Furdog one of our targets.

Now how does it sound?

Actually if a player like Coda is on a team, that team will need a lower rated player in order to come in under the cap.

Giving the non rated player the average score of the total rating cap should be fair enough, but if it appears that most of the players that don't have ratings are newbies, then set their rating lower. There probably isn't going to be 20 players that don't have a rating and shoot 980 type golf.

DING! DING! DING!

Winner winner chicken dinner! :D

You're too good for our team Martin. :o:o:D

So, the ratings cap seems to solve one issue. Will scoring be done by overall stroke count or ?

Highest number of viewers on this thread right now than the entire discussion board. :o:D

We shall see, the new ratings will be up soon and who knows then.

So I take it that you are thinking about setting the cap at 3700 Wise ?

So, the ratings cap seems to solve one issue. Will scoring be done by overall stroke count or ?



Overall scoring would be the easiest but I'll share another option.

Each Team can assign their #1, #2, #3, &amp; #4
-All the #1's play on a card, #2's on same, etc.
-Depending on what place you finish on that card you are assigned pt total. (10 for 1st, 7 for 2nd, 5 for 3rd, 3 for 4th, 1 for 5th* if nec.)
-Top team totals advance to Flight A

The only problem with this is the 1st round it could be random of which #1's you get, 1 card may be a lot stronger than another #1 card.

I think that with the ratings cap in place it should work out okay for storke play. I'll be out the rest of the day on appointments. But keep the discussion going.

Thanks Kev. ;)

dave i was thinking just create a ratings cap then let them fill in players up to that cap..the closer to the cap the better for them if they fall 20-30 points short of the cap then they accept what they are doing before hand and have no room to complain..
then just add the total strokes together for a team score
as for breaking it down into 2 flights why not just have 2 caps for the 2 flights maybe 3700 for the a flight, 3500 for the b flight maybe $50 each for a flight and $25-30 each for b flight ..you could even do a prize payout (no cash) for the b flight..
if i have time ill try to research some examples to post for ya ;)

Lets stay away from a multi price teir thing on this one,
it is enough that a team that would already be out of the money will get to head up the B flight and get "in the money" were normally they would be just out for a good time.

Jim, question.....................Would you establish the filghts pre-event or wait until after the first round scores are in, then split them up for the final round?

I lean towards after the first round, I think it shows the true capabilities of the group on that day and it should keep teams from trying to bag into a flight pre-event. Especially if they don't know the break on the flights.



I think that you should establish flight ratings brackets ahead of time if you want to follow this format.

i think 3700 ratings cap is a good idea

i think 3700 ratings cap is a good idea



I do as well Dorries.

Dave and I have discussed it, and I think that a 3700 cap and a flighted payout.... 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 10, 11, 12....provides the most level playing field possible.

The downsides, are that teams are technically even more difficult to create.

It leaves teams up in the air, and players being cut/dropped from teams that may have already been forming under the "1 Pro 1 Master 1 Adv and 1 Am" system, which had been announced.

Also team members will not get to play in the cool Pro w/ Adv, Master w/ Am. and then vice versa.

What I am thinking of is a cool/ different thing to do for the winners.

Check this out...

Dave and I compiled this idea today...

Everyone could a patch for playing. Color patch (I'm thinking) with as cool a logo or layout as I (or Rob) can muster.

So everyone gets one for being involved.

Then i get 18 Captains patches made. For the designated captain of each team. 18 patches.

And then the winners get "Champion" patches, of which only one set for the winners would be made.

These patches may be a different little twist on a sticker for some folks, but for those who have two, or even three of the set...those could be proudly displayed on ones bag, or even cooler on a TEAM EVENT HOODIE!!!

Does anyone think that is cool, or was I in Boy Scouts for too long?

And how about this...

We do a "Warm up for the team event"....

We could play for, flighted I suppose, bonus team points, and put the money towards the tournament, or funding my strange patch idea.

Singles. Flighted payout. Small cash entry ($10- 5 to tournament, 5 to the payout the "warm up").

You would play for a small cash amount, but more importantly you would play for "Bonus Points".

Here is how Bonus points would work. To the flighted winners (1,2,3,10,11,12...or whatever) would be awarded diminishing values of points. (25 for 1st, 20 for second, 15 for third, and the same for 10,11,and 12)

This would allow, using myself as an example for easy math sake....

I am 950 rated, If I won 1st or 10th place, I could play on a team as a 925 rated player.... (My rating of 950 minus the 25 Bonus Points = 925)

Adds a little spice, and would let the poor highly rated players have a chance of fitting into a four man player scheme.

W O W !!!! :eek: :D:cool:

That is a lot to think about, Andrew. I need to think about this...before I can, well, think about this :cool:

i say screw all this
time for a new event
each team will bring a large party favor and the winning team will recieve the party gifts
what an idea and colorado rules will apply

i think 3700 ratings cap is a good idea



I think that even better would be a gold division capped at 3900, a silver division capped at 3800 and a bronze division capped at 3700. Each division pays out only one winning team. This would allow more flexibilty in forming teams, and the payout should still be nice for the winners.

Or - if Dave feels that that will result in not enough teams per division, then have only 2 divisions, one capped at say 3850, and the other at, for the sake of example, 3700.

Making the caps known ahead of time allows those forming teams to get a composite rating as close to the cap as possible.

I have looked at all players as a whole, by division, by ratings, averaged ratings....ect...........the 3700 cap seems as close to perfect as I think we can get. I don't want to have different divisions, the cap system levels the playing field. the 3700 is a 925 player average. I have built several mock teams and if every one shoots their rating, then all teams will be real close to each other, regardless of who is on the team, even Coda. It still comes down to what can you shoot on that day. :p

The cap also allows for players like Furdog, Mel and Martin to be picked up. If your top rated player is above about 960 to 980, then you'll need one of them on your team to not go over the cap.

I also like flighting it after the first round. While a team may look good on paper they may not be up to par that day and on the flip side if a team plays well but they didn't look that great coming in, then the flighting will take care of them also.

I will post the flyer, team rules and sign ups early next week after the latest ratings update comes out on Saturday.

Thanks for all of your input, from all of you. This is what I love about this club, the ability to work together. We will never all agree but we have learned how to Git-r-done! :D


Plan on a 3700 ratings cap and start building your teams. :D

next rating update 9-9.08

Okay, every thing will still be posted early next week. ;)

Sounds like you've got it worked out well. Good job buddy. I apoligize for dumping all that cat poop in your yard. ;)

And don't forget Big Jim on the porch. You can always stay on the porch with me and drink beer while the big dogs play. Even if you are not on a team, I think this will be a tremendous event and a lot of fun. By November it should be cool enough to break out the big bonfire ring. Big screen TV in the lodge, fireplace, good food, BEER. :DWhat more could you ask for? And, since Leah has moved to Colorado, I am going to ask my buddy at Magoo's Billiards if he would let me hire a couple of his girls to come and help us with this event. Have you seen the MAGOO's GIRLS? :D:D:D

There is no way they could be better than Leah. ;)

I bet they don't stand a chance against LEAH ;) :D

woah Jerry, down boy

Sounds good, thanks for seeing it through Two-Putt, and Thanks to Jim for a great venue and amenities, can't wait :D

Look forward to seeing a few teams from Arky Land. :D

Team Lucky Shot
Team Donkey
Team Wookie?

Look forward to seeing a few teams from Arky Land. :D

Team Lucky Shot
Team Donkey
Team Wookie?


Team Wookie? now that is a team that may not be safe to beat! :D

... outstanding culminations on you guys ... the inputs (thanks Kev. &amp; Don C) and outputs from all exterior brainstormings has fed Wise well ...
.
... Dave W , whether or not you want to get "that detailed" on your Flyer ; you should consider which-players-on-which-tees ... ie , the lowest-ranked 1 or 2 from a Team use "whites" , while the uppermost 2 or 3 use "blues" , etc. ... for both rounds same , or changed-for-second-round , or etc. ... brainstorm your options ... you know them all as-well-as or better than I ... pace-of-play may be an issue ... to get two full-rounds done by a possibly pretty big number of Teams ... I'm sure that you'll have all-the-angles covered ... just food for thought ...
.
... daylight-savings-time goes off the weekend before ...

Night Golf :cool:

All things being equal, I would rather not play blue but if all of the other low rated players have to play the same tees then the teams will have equal ground for scores. since we are using a ratings cap for forming teams then all players should play from the same tees. it would be confusing to make a 850 player play blue and an 849 player use white. (although Dog and I would most likely be rated low enough to use the red tees). /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

:DAnd now to beat the dead horse some more:
One male "advanced" Grandmaster rated in the 840's right now, seeking a spot on a team. Will pay own way and carry own weight in the matches.
Please contact Side arm on PM or email me at the work email address.

Dang, I thought the ratings update was tomorrow. :confused: Why diy I think it said August 9? Ah well :p

So what about my patch idea?

Hoodies?

Let's all thank Wise some more....

Don't you have enough "merit" badges already? :confused:

As a boy scout, why are you never around when I need help crossing the street?

Just kidding Andrew. :D

The idea was eerily similar to either the Boy Scouts, or the Army dudes we saw on the highway.

I like the idea...To tell you the truth I had forgotten about it until just now. Crazy night :eek:

So what about my patch idea?

Hoodies?

Let's all thank Wise some more....



patches as a players pack? sure :D

Everyone could a patch for playing. Color patch (I'm thinking) with as cool a logo or layout as I (or Rob) can muster.

So everyone gets one for being involved.

Then i get 18 Captains patches made. For the designated captain of each team. 18 patches.

And then the winners get "Champion" patches, of which only one set for the winners would be made.

These patches may be a different little twist on a sticker for some folks, but for those who have two, or even three of the set...those could be proudly displayed on ones bag, or even cooler on a TEAM EVENT HOODIE!!!

Does anyone think that is cool, or was I in Boy Scouts for too long?

And how about this...

We do a "Warm up for the team event"....

We could play for, flighted I suppose, bonus team points, and put the money towards the tournament, or funding my strange patch idea.

Singles. Flighted payout. Small cash entry ($10- 5 to tournament, 5 to the payout the "warm up").

You would play for a small cash amount, but more importantly you would play for "Bonus Points".

Here is how Bonus points would work. To the flighted winners (1,2,3,10,11,12...or whatever) would be awarded diminishing values of points. (25 for 1st, 20 for second, 15 for third, and the same for 10,11,and 12)

This would allow, using myself as an example for easy math sake....

I am 950 rated, If I won 1st or 10th place, I could play on a team as a 925 rated player.... (My rating of 950 minus the 25 Bonus Points = 925)

Adds a little spice, and would let the poor highly rated players have a chance of fitting into a four man player scheme.

&lt;&lt;849 rated and going to be lower next month. :( Great job Dave

And now, a paid advertistment

So you've stuffed your team to the max with three of the best rated players you could find but due to the cap you've only got room for an 811 or less rated player. :(

Never fear, Furdog is here!!!! :cool:

Yes, that's right my friends, where else are you going to find such an under-rated player like Furdog that is due to explode with a low round any day now??? :o

But WAIT!!!!.....There�s more!!!! :)

Call now within the next ten minutes and not only will you receive the one and only �Real Deal Furdog�,�..

You�ll get the �Airbiscuits�,...

The intimidation factor to destroy the competition,�.

The fly-high tye dye,�..

And his professional knowledge from years of playing from the rough compiled on one two-disc DVD set. (That�s a total of 8 hours of backward rollers, tree whacking, pond splashing, plastic splitting, worm hedging stuff that you and your team need.)

Don�t let this once in a lifetime offer pass you by!!!!

Furdog�s agent, (Lil�Moose) is standing by to take your call!!!!

Paid for by the �Someone please pick Furdog and get him out of Lil�Mooses House� committee.

not sure about the "bonus" idea, couldn't some one purposely screw up a round to be considered a lower rated player?

****, I missed the 10 minute window, I'd of done it just for the DVD set :p

come on FurDog, come to the Dark Side, play for an Arkie Team, I know you have some Hillbilly in ya,
screw the Vodka, we've got pure Moonshine :cool:

I would but I heard the last Okie that joined an Arkie team got left in the woods tied to a tree.

On top of that, I'm sure any team I was on would make me sign a legal paper garanteeing that I would not drink hard liquor the night before. ;)

not sure about the "bonus" idea, couldn't some one purposely screw up a round to be considered a lower rated player?



The Bonus points would go to the winners of the "warm up".

You would have to win first second or third. Or 10th 11th or 12th to receive them.

Try and bag down into 10th place....I dare you.

Boy! :(
How can I compete with that offer all I have is side arm, back hand and wicked approch shots, oh and a discount at Wal-Mart. :D
Oh by the way there are still a lot of my Kin Folk that never left the Natural State for the Dust Bowl, er Oklahoma and some make real good drinking stock! :cool:

OK Red, I follow the idea.....still not convinced, I like the fundraising event idea for more cash or amenities, I like the patch or some form of a souvenir as a players pack, ect.

just not convinced about the bonus points allowing good players to be allowed on teams as lesser players because they won by playing good, alot of particpating "away" team members may not be able to make the "warm up" as a fairness issue

If the winning team win's by 2 strokes and their ratings actually add up to 3725 but they have a "bonus point" winner so they're considered a 3700 team versus a perfectly 3700 rated team that didn't play for "bonus points", it could be considered unfair....IMO

Boy! :(
How can I compete with that offer all I have is side arm, back hand and wicked approch shots, oh and a discount at Wal-Mart. :D
Oh by the way there are still a lot of my Kin Folk that never left the Natural State for the Dust Bowl, er Oklahoma and some make real good drinking stock! :cool:



How much is your Wal-Mart discount :)

boy if I coulds git me sum of them fancy department store goods at a discount.....just imagine, real Charmin in the outhouse, we could use that newspaper we've been using for new wallpaper in the living room :D

that big jug you carry could hold alot of Shine too :cool:

Dang, I thought the ratings update was tomorrow. :confused: Why diy I think it said August 9? Ah well :p


.
.
... :confused: I thought it had said 8-9-08 also ... oh well , when the "fresh ratings" pop up (early September) ; it will still be 2 months prior to the Event ...
.
... a lotta formulating can be done in 60 days ...

Boy! :(
How can I compete with that offer all I have is side arm, back hand and wicked approch shots, oh and a discount at Wal-Mart. :D
Oh by the way there are still a lot of my Kin Folk that never left the Natural State for the Dust Bowl, er Oklahoma and some make real good drinking stock! :cool:



How much is your Wal-Mart discount :)

boy if I coulds git me sum of them fancy department store goods at a discount.....just imagine, real Charmin in the outhouse, we could use that newspaper we've been using for new wallpaper in the living room :D

that big jug you carry could hold alot of Shine too :cool:


enough to float a whole team for at lest 18 holes. :D
discount 10% on non food items. :cool:

Could be a team from Kansas.

I looked back several pages and couldn't find the info on team members and cost.

Can someone help me out?


Thanks

Smitty
Capt. of Team Jayhawk

$200 at team...that is what it was/probably will be.

...official flyer coming soon....

I have looked at all players as a whole, by division, by ratings, averaged ratings....ect...........the 3700 cap seems as close to perfect as I think we can get. I don't want to have different divisions, the cap system levels the playing field. the 3700 is a 925 player average. I have built several mock teams and if every one shoots their rating, then all teams will be real close to each other, regardless of who is on the team, even Coda. It still comes down to what can you shoot on that day. :p

The cap also allows for players like Furdog, Mel and Martin to be picked up. If your top rated player is above about 960 to 980, then you'll need one of them on your team to not go over the cap.

I also like flighting it after the first round. While a team may look good on paper they may not be up to par that day and on the flip side if a team plays well but they didn't look that great coming in, then the flighting will take care of them also.

I will post the flyer, team rules and sign ups early next week after the latest ratings update comes out on Saturday.

Thanks for all of your input, from all of you. This is what I love about this club, the ability to work together. We will never all agree but we have learned how to Git-r-done! :D


Plan on a 3700 ratings cap and start building your teams. :D



Thanks for making a decision and for putting all of the speculation to rest. I was having trouble keeping up with all of the proposals.

This sounds like a great format.

anybody headed for the meeting tonight and wants to stop in at Magoos and have a cold one on me, come on by. 51st and Memorial. :D

�Challenge at The Lodge�
~A Team Event~

Where: The Lodge at Pawhuska
When: Saturday November 8th
Entry: $200 per team (18 team Limit)
Time: 9:00 am rules meeting
9:30 Tee Blue Course
2nd Round 1- 1:30 White Course

$1,000 + Added Cash!!!

Pay out: 100% of entries
Format: This event will be flighted into �A� flight and �B� flight after the first round. 1st, 2nd and 3rd in each flight will be paid.

Team Formation 4 players required � 3700 Total Ratings Cap
� Teams will be comprised of 4 players with a total ratings cap of 3700 per team.
� There are no divisional requirements. Example: Player 1- 940 rated, player 2-950 rated, player 3-900 rated, player 4-910 rated. The total of these players is 3700.
� No team will be allowed a player roster with a team total above 3700.
� Each team will have one team captain. The team captain will need to submit the team roster complete with a phone number where he/she can be reached, to the TD. The TD will review each team for accuracy and will notify the captain if there is a problem with any team roster. All teams must be submitted by Friday October 31st. Team rosters may be submitted to [email protected] or mailed to David Wise, 8555 N 117th E Ave, Suite 103, Owasso Ok 74055. Entries can also be mailed to the above address.

Team Scoring: Each team member�s total strokes will be added together to determine the team total.

Now is the time to get your teams together! This will be an event you don�t want to miss.
There are only 18 team spots available; don�t get left out to ride the tractor. Build a Team!
It is design to offer all levels of players a chance to compete against each other in a team environment. Pick a good team name and get on the PDGA ratings page and start recruiting!


Questions? Dave Wise 918-232-8562


This will be posted on the TDSA web page along with a team sign up sheet. As teams register, I will post them here and on the TDSA page.

Are you going to have everyone wait to create their respective teams until after the September ratings come out? :confused:

Awesome!! Great job Dave

No, teams can be formed now. After the ratings update, you may or may not need to adjust your team.
If your team goes over the cap at the next update, just work a trade with another team. ;)

Bump!!!


And now, a paid advertistment

So you've stuffed your team to the max with three of the best rated players you could find but due to the cap you've only got room for an 811 or less rated player. :(

Never fear, Furdog is here!!!! :cool:

Yes, that's right my friends, where else are you going to find such an under-rated player like Furdog that is due to explode with a low round any day now??? :o

But WAIT!!!!.....There�s more!!!! :)

Call now within the next ten minutes and not only will you receive the one and only �Real Deal Furdog�,�..

You�ll get the �Airbiscuits�,...

The intimidation factor to destroy the competition,�.

The fly-high tye dye,�..

And his professional knowledge from years of playing from the rough compiled on one two-disc DVD set. (That�s a total of 8 hours of backward rollers, tree whacking, pond splashing, plastic splitting, worm hedging stuff that you and your team need.)

Don�t let this once in a lifetime offer pass you by!!!!

Furdog�s agent, (Lil�Moose) is standing by to take your call!!!!

Paid for by the �Someone please pick Furdog and get him out of Lil�Mooses House� committee.

Boy! :(
How can I compete with that offer all I have is side arm, back hand and wicked approch shots, oh and a discount at Wal-Mart. :D
Oh by the way there are still a lot of my Kin Folk that never left the Natural State for the Dust Bowl, er Oklahoma and some make real good drinking stock! :cool:


bump2

Any one need a 921 and dropping rated player?

&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; 809 rating... :o

This is starting to look like the land of unwanted Xmas toys. ;)