Are we still on track for a Mid/Late-May Ratings update?

Been away for a while, so just assuming its still the same....

Did I make it to 950???

Mills, it will be interesting to see how your March Mush rounds get rated. You got beat by or shot close to the same scores as several 890ish rated 'gators. Looks like they probably played all winter and got a lot better. But, when that happens, they drag down ratings for everyone.

That was only the first round and I had a double roll away on hole 17 to take a 6. That round will get thrown out and the second round of 1 or 2 down will prolly be right around my rating so im not to worried about it. Plus they have some new ratings formula so that the ratings are going to be more current I guess so we will have to see. I know I shot a 979 and 2 980 plus rounds on in Bowling Green though and I shot a 975 a 954 and a 934 out in AZ and I have some other decent rating coming is as well. Plus after this rating I will on have rounds that are rated 900 or more in the rating and that helps ALOT!!!!!!!!! :D

What was the major change to how ratings are calculated. Did they change the 15% drop?

I just hope I make it over 915 so that when I say I play advanced and people look at my ratings they don't think I am joking. In the last 4 out of 5 tournaments I have played in I at least averaged a player rating above 920.

But I still get to carry a card that says 853 for the rest of the year! Too bad I could not get into Mid Nationals with that rating.

The major change is that they no longer automatically drop your lowest 15% of rounds. They drop rounds that are more than a standard deviation from your mean, which usually will be rounds that are more than 80 ratings points below your rating, but it will vary. They are making other changes to make the ratings system weighted more toward your most recent rounds, rather than treating your October 2003 rounds the same as your March 2005 rounds. They are also reducing the number of gators needed to generate ratings so more rounds will get rated automatically.

So does that mean that when you started playing and shooting 850's, then not play alot of PDGA events but improve greatly and start shooting in the 930's they will not use those 930 rounds because they are too far from your mean/prior rating? Or since those rounds are newer and more recent they will end up being weighted higher.

Just wondering because I have been shooting on average this spring about 70 points higher then my Feburary update.

So does that mean that when you started playing and shooting 850's, then not play alot of PDGA events but improve greatly and start shooting in the 930's they will not use those 930 rounds because they are too far from your mean/prior rating? Or since those rounds are newer and more recent they will end up being weighted higher.

Just wondering because I have been shooting on average this spring about 70 points higher then my Feburary update.



They are going to drop rounds that are a standard deviation LOWER than your rating. They will keep rounds that are higher than a s.d. from your rating.

I know a lot of people (including myself) ask Chuck to divulge their updated rating before the official ratings are posted.

I propose that Chuck receives $3.00 (to his paypal account?) for each of his early updated ratings information inquiries.... I'd be more than willing to pay $3.00 for that. When the ratings are due out, I know that alot of people are very anxious, and would be willing to pay to find out early.

Anyone?

I would pay 3 bucks to find out my EXACT rating early. That way he might do them faster since he would kind of be getting PAID to do the ratings :D

I don't think that Chuck would give the "exact" rating (in case something changes after he has the numbers). He probably would be able to give a "reliable" rating.

So does that mean that when you started playing and shooting 850's, then not play alot of PDGA events but improve greatly and start shooting in the 930's they will not use those 930 rounds because they are too far from your mean/prior rating? Or since those rounds are newer and more recent they will end up being weighted higher.

Just wondering because I have been shooting on average this spring about 70 points higher then my Feburary update.

As Jon indicated, no, you've got it backwards. What it means is, if I play left handed for the rest of my life because my elbow injury is permanent, and never shoot better than 830 golf, I'll always have a 934 rating or whatever I am right now, and I'll never be able to play against similarly skilled opponents.

Chuck assures me that if that turns out to be the case, he can fix ratings on an individual basis.

I'm for sure playing IOS #2. I'm ready. I'm as good as any other really crappy old guy.

just 1 standard deviation? i thought it was gonna be more like 2.5 SDs. a single SD of 80 could indicate some rather major inconsistency.

also, are you sure the rating would never go down? after a couple years max the rounds start to drop off. so a rapidly declining player would lose the old high rounds and see the rating drop.

further, since the SD is calculated from ALL rounds, the lower rounds would make the SD value much larger. i ran some models using the proposed basic formula and found that for most players it is fairly difficult to have a round dropped. not impossible, but a lot harder than before. as a consequence, ratings will be lower than before - unless a correction value is applied. such a value was mentioned as a distinct possibility. anyway, chuck has stated that the exact formula will be published with the new ratings, so we will get the details then.

thats awesome cause I have an 814 round because of showing up 2 holes late, now that'll get dropped no questions asked.

When exactly are the new ratings coming out. I haven't been updated since September! Pretty soon the year will be half over! rWc3523

Russ,

That is because you did not play a PDGA event from the Overstable Open in August until this years Bowling Green Amateur Championship.

Your BG rounds will be included in the May update. I believe it is going to be around the 20th.

May 23rd is what I hear :)

what happened to the 15th?

what happened to the 15th?



If you would just read back a few pages answers can be found :)

"The timing is based around when the 15th occurs. The posting has been set between the first full Sunday evening thru Tuesday evening period following the 15th for the past two years. The 15th is Sunday, so the the posting will be between the following Sunday and Tuesday, May 22-24.
"

to poop on...LOL
just busting balls....

to poop on...LOL
just busting balls....



LMAO...haven't heard that one in a while! I spit some soda after reading it! :o :)

Chuck...Distance yourself from the "funny situation" thread for a couple weeks, it's getting all serious and stuff :D

Wouldn't you rather play the 1-question-about-your-rating-game?

I'll go first...Will I be rated higher than 950 in the next update? :D

Not even close to prelim numbers yet. Roger's still working on the revised process. Our new course layout prep person along with me is John Kretzschmar also from the Twin Cities. We're prepping the files for input. Doing the BG Am will be a real treat. It's being processed like 20 virtual events to get the course data done properly. We'll have prelim numbers just about when I leave for a Highbridge event next weekend and I'll only have limited access until the numbers get posted by Theo if all goes well.

Cool...Will they be up by May 23?

the numbers get posted by Theo if all goes well

So does that mean May 23rd still or do you mean within the next day or so.

May 23rd

Did i break 945???

When is the cut off date for rounds to be entered in to the May 23 ratings.

I just hope I hit the 960 barrier with this new system. :D:D

I just hope I hit the 960 barrier with this new system. :D:D


Word

TDs had to have their reports to Dave Gentry by May 3rd to be included in this update.

You will easily because you don't have many rated rounds but I have a bunch of old stuff that has been holding me down (worlds) :D:D

I still dont understand the difference between the new and old system :confused:

the new system uses a new method for determining which rounds get dropped. the old system used the old method.

hope this helps!

well, what is that system??

And I heard that more recent rounds count more??

And I heard that more recent rounds count more??

sh:t

And I heard that more recent rounds count more??

sh:t


That's what I'll need to get out of my sub 900 funk. :mad: Good thing I won a tourney in April!! :cool:

TDs had to have their reports to Dave Gentry by May 3rd to be included in this update.



:DGood then my Buddha Tree scores wont be counted :D

With my Napa & ST Pats scores Im heading down toward "DiscPimp & Dirty D" :D

That is unless they keep dropping my "garbage" rounds :p

TDs had to have their reports to Dave Gentry by May 3rd to be included in this update.



With my Napa & ST Pats scores Im heading down toward "DiscPimp & Dirty D" :D

That is unless they keep dropping my "garbage" rounds :p



I'll be rated higher than you by the end of the year anyway /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

MTL, i dont know the specifics, but i believe there are the following general features:

1. bad rounds must be more than 2.5 (or thereabouts) standard deviations from your average for them to be dropped

2. maybe some weighting towards recent rounds

3. a "fudge" factor to offset unusual ratings changes caused solely by the new system. the fudge factor may be universal or unique by player, details not yet known.

4. bonus ratings points for rounds played in Texas, due to the anomaly caused by Texas ratings being generally lower than equally skilled players in other states.

I love living in TX because they give us bonus points. :D:D

If you guys really want to know what your rating is why don't you just keep track of them yourselves :P you obviously have enough time since youre always on here asking when the ratings will be up.
P.S. I finally will go down, 1013 :( but Justin Bunnell looks like he will be up to around 1009!

You better shape up Chris or I might even catch you. :D

Hey chris what is the formula?

You just need to know what all the players ratings are and what they shot each round. The you can plug them into the pdga's "rating caculator" to find out what your rating was that round. Then just keep track of all your rounds and then you figure out what your average is, just drop your worst 15% and go back 1 year from the last tournament you've played.

Here are some preliminary changes for the new ratings calcs that Roger has been able to complete for the next update:

1. Since last September, only 5 propagators have been required to generate round ratings instead of 10. That will continue.

2. Starting with this next update, your most recent 8 rounds will be double weighted to calculate your rating.

3. All of your round ratings will be used (no 15% dropped) except for those that are statistically too low. This cut number will depend on your rating. Rounds from around 80 to 120 points below your current rating will be dropped.

4. Course SSA values will be boosted by about 0.8 which will boost round ratings by about 8 pts for courses with SSAs near 50. This will offset the lower ratings that will occur by using all of a player's rounds. A person with stable performance should end up with essentially the same rating in the new system. One of our goals with the new calculations was to try and end up with roughly the same number of 1000+ rated players as in February.

We will be looking at ways to adjust data prior to 2005 so it can be compared on the same basis to 2005 and beyond data. The mythical 1100 rated round should barely be attainable with the new calcs. Who will be the first to get it?

Hmmm, now you're just trying to make it too complicated.

I added up all my rounds that will be included and used my old drops and I came out with 967.6 but I know that won't be right. By the way I know that isn't how you do it and I just wanted to seee what happened :D:D

Is it Mid-May? Are we there yet? ;)

2. Starting with this next update, your most recent 8 rounds will be double weighted to calculate your rating.



But if the ratings are updated over such long time periods I think more should be double rated. 8 rounds thats say 2 events(2x4), when you could play up to 4 to 7 tournaments inbetween ratings updates. If you have good rounds at the right times ratings could be buffed.

i agree except that time between updates is 2 or 3 months (i believe depending on which update), so you could possibly play 8-12 tournies in that time (2 day events), or 32-48 rounds. 8 doesn't seem like enough, especially to be weighed so heavily. more inconsistent players are going to have bigger swings in their ratings.

I agree. Perhaps instead of just 8 rounds, it should be a percentage total rounds.

I am curious what is going to happen with my rating, it could jump way up because I played a few good round recently, but only play one day tournaments.

I am curious about mine too. I should have at least 3 1000+ rated rounds going into this update. Yet I also have 32 rounds going in. I didn't play very well in BG and thats part of the 8 rounds that will double.

so when are the new ratings coming out??

2morrow???!!!?!?!?!?

Most likely Monday, Chuck has said repeatedly. They never come out late in the week because of the confusion it would cause at tournaments.

will we then be able to see round ratings for the red rock show?

Looks like the processing is on track for publishing updated ratings between Sunday night and Tuesday night. Just some of the planned processing changes have been completed for this update:

1. Your most recent 8 round ratings will be double weighted.
2. If you have fewer than 8 rounds in your most recent 12 months of rated rounds, we will go back up to 12 more months until we get 8 (used to be 20).
3. The minimum number of propagators required to calculate ratings has been dropped from 10 down to 5 since last September. (Theo will soon change the online unofficial ratings calculator from 10 down to 5.)

Delayed until July update:
Using all of a player's rounds except for those below 2.5sd. This change is more complicated than the others and needs a little more work until it's ready to go.

Seems to be an error......

My name is Sjur Soleng pdga # 19656 not # 19565 as is written on:
http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4968

Delayed until July update:
Using all of a player's rounds except for those below 2.5sd. This change is more complicated than the others and needs a little more work until it's ready to go.



So will any rounds be dropped this update?

So will any rounds be dropped this update?



Same as process we have been using.

I love that double weighting for the 8 most recent rounds. This is going to help my rating a lot.

Chuck....Pretend I'm 3 years old and explain the standard deviation thing. Also, you said you would be using all rounds. Do you mean all rounds ever rated or still just going back one year? Thanks

Its also going to help mine a bunch.

Seems to be an error......

My name is Sjur Soleng pdga # 19656 not # 19565 as is written on:
http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4968



Maybe this will help, those are unofficial results and if by the time the official results are eventually posted and if it is not correct then look into contacting someoen about it but I have had this happen before and everything has always turned out right.

Yeah those are unofficial results because at No Foolin this year they had Matt Blakely as a 803 rated player when it was posted on the website and then once they updated the tournament results and made them official.

1. Your most recent 8 round ratings will be double weighted.
2. If you have fewer than 8 rounds in your most recent 12 months of rated rounds, we will go back up to 12 more months until we get 8 (used to be 20).
3. The minimum number of propagators required to calculate ratings has been dropped from 10 down to 5 since last September. (Theo will soon change the online unofficial ratings calculator from 10 down to 5.)



Chuck with the 8 most recent rounds being double weighted what happens if one of those rounds wont be included in your rating?

first, lets pretend you are college age: standard deviation is the square root of the variance of a set of numbers. its a measure of dispersion of a set of data from their mean.

now for the three year old version: The standard deviation is a measure of how spread out your data is

for the truly interested:

1. Compute the mean for the data set.
2. Compute the deviation by subtracting the mean from each value.
3. Square each individual deviation.
4. Add up the squared deviations.
5. Divide by one less than the sample size.
6. Take the square root.


by dropping rounds that are 2.5 times the standard deviation, we are dropping rounds that are absolutely not indicitive of a player's ability. could be from taking par-plus-fours by being late, could be from not caring at the end of a tedious round.

on the other hand, rounds that are above the rating by greater than 2.5 sd's are kept - because it is completely impossible to shoot better than your abilities.

Why is the 27th WATERLOO DISC GOLF CLASSIC not included in my rating??
when will we be able to see round ratings for the red rock show?

Are you saying that all squares are mean deviants ? :cool:

Efrain, they weren't included in the last update for anyone. You should see them when the new ratings come out on Monday.

Official ratings for the Red Rock Show will also be posted when the new ratings are.

If I am remembering correctly Waterloo is an X-tier so whatever format that is played that makes it an X-tier is likely the reason the rounds form there will not be rated. If the rounds are not just straight up rounds (like any other singles event) then don't expect to ever see them be rated.

This new technique for processing ratings is gonna hurt me since my last 8 rounds are horrible even though this year has been a great year for me. It might be good for others who don't play a lot of tournaments but not me, at least this time. What do you think?

Bard Soleng #19410

Efrain, they weren't included in the last update for anyone. You should see them when the new ratings come out on Monday.

Official ratings for the Red Rock Show will also be posted when the new ratings are.



Thanks Lou , hope to see them soon!!! :D

48 hours. It's just like December 23rd! :D

Are we there yet?

Chuck, did you consider double weighting rounds played in the last 3 months (or since the last ratings update) instead of your last 8 rounds? It seems like those who have 32 rounds since the last update alone verses those who haven't played 8 full rounds for over six months create a problem (why 8 ?)

Russ,
Your BG rounds will be included in the May update. I believe it is going to be around the 20th.



Are you sure BG-AM.s be in this update? The reason i ask is Chuck said something about it might not make it due to the number of participants. I hope you are right because even though i only had one good round at BG, without it my most recent 8 rounds aren't looking too good...

Chuck, did you consider double weighting rounds played in the last 3 months (or since the last ratings update) instead of your last 8 rounds? It seems like those who have 32 rounds since the last update alone verses those who haven't played 8 full rounds for over six months create a problem (why 8 ?)



How would this work if someone did not play for one ratings update? Wouldn't their rating then change without them even playing since the rounds that were double weighted would not longer be?

Yes, but ratings often change without playing because old rounds drop off.

if you hadn't competed in 3 months, you'd lose the extra weighting of the rounds you played most recently

i may not be thinking of all the ramifications, but my idea is that the 3 month gap would mean your most recent rounds weren't recent enough to warrant extra weighting. the 3 month layoff might mean you were closer to where you were 6 months ago than three. sure you might be competing in non-pdga events and staying on top of your game, but you might just be sitting on the couch. you would need to play pdga events every three months to earn the extra weighting (which would be an incentive to play more pdga events more often). plus it would probably make your rating more accurate in that what you did lately gets the most weight...

What time of the day are ratings posted?

What time of the day are ratings posted?



i believe late at night. you could start a pool to guess the exact time and offer a free disc to the winner. Persons like Chuck however would need to be excluded, for obvious reasons :P

Almost there! (hopefully)

on the pdga home page in <font color="red"> red </font> type it says they will be up tomorrow

12:01 AM would be nice. :D

Yes that would be sweet :D

Any News on what time the ratings are coming out?

It would, but...It will probably be more like 11:59 pm 5/23 :DI know you guys volunteer your time, thanks.

Might as well guess at what our ratings will be while we wait...The new system is a bit tricky but I'm guessing I'll be 946, a measly 2 points.

I'm guessing mine will go back up to 935 or so. Wait no 937 cause I'm a bagger! :D

921

But if Bowling Green is not included....

900 :(

I actually played well and had 3 rounds over 930.

Stupid bad rounds from when I started last year. I at least want to move up to where I would not be allowed to play MA2.

due to the very few PDGA rounds in the last 3 years, I have a feeling that my rating may go over 955 this time.

Oh well if it does. No more Advance. But it's only 7 months and 8 days till I become a rookie Master anyways.

there's no player rating max for advanced

Yes, but Pizza_God is an open player playing in the Advnaced occasionally and if he goes above 950, he will not be allowed to play Advanced occasionally.


there's no player rating max for advanced

there's no player rating max for advanced


There is a max if you have taken cash before though.

good point

Might as well guess at what our ratings will be while we wait...The new system is a bit tricky but I'm guessing I'll be 946, a measly 2 points.



I should ... Avalanche downward...with the last 8 rounds doubled.. Big ???? is will I play ADVANCED for the first time in 12 years :p
:D

Might as well guess at what our ratings will be while we wait...The new system is a bit tricky but I'm guessing I'll be 946, a measly 2 points.

Without having played any tournaments since the last update, if they use the last 20 rounds I lose 1 ratings point but if they use the last year's worth of data I lose six ratings points. Does anybody know which it is? I was including the "double weight the last eight" and "don't drop Nos within 80 points of your rating."

Not that it matters. My rating will crater as soon as I begin playing tournaments again.

But if Bowling Green is not included....



that's not what i wanted to hear :p

earlier you said BG would be included and then i pointed out i heard it might not be. i was hoping you would tell me you know for a fact BG Am. rounds will be included... :confused:

w/out BG the oldest 4 of my most recent 8 rounds may drag me downward in a way i find ugly (even though i really only had one good round at BG). oh well -- more motivation to play Pro Master this weekend and hope i play well...

Yes, If my rating is greater than 954, no more advance for me :D

I paid my Pro dues in 1999 and cashed as a pro in April of that year. The makes me not eligable to play any Am Major, no mater how low my rating goes.

I practiced a lot for the Texas 10 Finals and shot my best rated round ever. Then I managed to squease in three 1 day events so far this year. Missing the cash in the pro C-tier and placing 2nd at both of the others in Advanced.

I had wanted to play Am weekend at Waco in June, but if my rating is 955 or higher, that is out and no Waco for me this year.

Basicly, I am just waiting for next year.

Yes, If my rating is greater than 954, no more advance for me :D

I paid my Pro dues in 1999 and cashed as a pro in April of that year. The makes me not eligable to play any Am Major, no mater how low my rating goes.

I practiced a lot for the Texas 10 Finals and shot my best rated round ever. Then I managed to squease in three 1 day events so far this year. Missing the cash in the pro C-tier and placing 2nd at both of the others in Advanced.

I had wanted to play Am weekend at Waco in June, but if my rating is 955 or higher, that is out and no Waco for me this year.

Basicly, I am just waiting for next year.



PG
If you have not cashed since '99 then you should be a "Shoe In" for reclassification. All you have to do is petition. :p

The worst that can happen is they say "NO" :D

Hey Bryan,

You know once you reach the BIG 40, I'll be looking forward to seeing you play with us old guys, you never know, we might be able to pull the dust off of old Wiedee :D:D

He cashed last year at the Texas Ten Finals, which was a pdga A tier.

I cashed in April of 99 at DDG Spring Fling

then again in 2000 at Waco A-tier (12th place I might add)

Then not again at a PDGA event till the B-tier one day Texas 10 Finals. (25th place)

In 2003 or was it 2004, I did ask to be moved back to Advance and was denied. I did too well in advance (I won several tournaments over the years including 5 in one year [more than anyone else that year in advance])

Rob,

At first I just assumed that they would have BG in the ratings. I figured the TD and Chuck would have figured it out by now.

You are the only person I have heard any news from concerning the fate of the BG round ratings for this update. Either way, it does not matter what my PDGA card says, I play the game I play.

any idea on when we might expect the updates??

I would like to see them as well

Last years final was B-tier. Chris wants to make this years final an A-Tier

How many rated rounds do I have to play before I get rated?

-Doug

Looks like the processing is on track for publishing updated ratings between Sunday night and Tuesday night. Just some of the planned processing changes have been completed for this update:

1. Your most recent 8 round ratings will be double weighted.
2. If you have fewer than 8 rounds in your most recent 12 months of rated rounds, we will go back up to 12 more months until we get 8 (used to be 20).
3. The minimum number of propagators required to calculate ratings has been dropped from 10 down to 5 since last September. (Theo will soon change the online unofficial ratings calculator from 10 down to 5.)

Delayed until July update:
Using all of a player's rounds except for those below 2.5sd. This change is more complicated than the others and needs a little more work until it's ready to go.



It can be as late as Tuesday night so sit back and wait :o:D

will we then be able to see round ratings for the red rock show?



Maybe if you Dream hard enough :o:D

Then why would they post TODAY as the update day on the home page??? :confused:

To keep Pimps off their trail :D

:eek:

pppppprrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnntt

question:
why do they only drop the rounds that are 2.5 sd below, and not the ones that are 2.5sd above a player's rating?

Because a good player can shoot crappy on purose but a bad player can't shoot good on purpose.

Why is the 27th WATERLOO DISC GOLF CLASSIC not included in my rating??
when will we be able to see round ratings for the red rock show?



:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

You may have missed my post before Esalazar:

If I am remembering correctly Waterloo is an X-tier so whatever format that is played that makes it an X-tier is likely the reason the rounds form there will not be rated. If the rounds are not just straight up rounds (like any other singles event) then don't expect to ever see them be rated.

Waterloo has mulligans. You cannot rate rounds (with a straight face at least) that have mulligans.

sure you can:
Waterloo Classic (26th) 17-Oct to 19-Oct-2003 2 46 975 Yes
Waterloo Classic (26th) 17-Oct to 19-Oct-2003 3 49 943 Yes


they have been included the last few years!!

Because a good player can shoot crappy on purose but a bad player can't shoot good on purpose.



This is a worse explanation than I thought I would get. This can't be a serious answer: bad palyers can' shoot good on purpose. By this reasonong you shouldn't keep the higher oultiers either, by your own admission they are a fluke and not indicative of the skill level any more than a "good player" purposefully throwing a round.
Typically, if not always, in statistical analysis they drop the outliers in both directions, since their absolute value as relates to the median are equal, thus dropping one set and not the other skews the data.

I think his point was that it takes skill to shoot well, whether it was a fluke or not it still took skill in doing it. On the other hand anyone can tank a round on purpose anytime they wish to try and drop their rating.

just post the update!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TY

104 people show up on "who's Online".

must be that time of the year.

Why set a date that it will be posted if they arent going to post it???

****...

I read that as:

"Just post<font color="red">ed </font> the update" :( :mad:

they have been included the last few years!!



The past years, the raters were unaware that the rounds had mulligans. Once they realized there were mulligans, it was an easy decision to not provide ratings. It kind of makes a mockery of ratings if the rounds have mulligans.

how many of the rounds thrown out are "tankers". most are probably off days, similiar to the on days just in the other direction. If a guy with a 885 shoots a 975 round, hows that differ from the guy with a 975 rating who blows up with a 885 round. Remember this is supposed to quantitative, not qualitative.

they have been included the last few years!!



The past years, the raters were unaware that the rounds had mulligans. Once they realized there were mulligans, it was an easy decision to not provide ratings. It kind of makes a mockery of ratings if the rounds have mulligans.



yeah, that's CRAZY!

Hey trimpiece...did you get that DVD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!MSDGC...where are you gonna be.....

Maybe they are having a little fun with us....hehe

Personally I think when they post a set date they should set that daten a day late.

Maybe they should put on commercials all day on the site on ratings day, be the best time to get more money.

they have been included the last few years!!



The past years, the raters were unaware that the rounds had mulligans. Once they realized there were mulligans, it was an easy decision to not provide ratings. It kind of makes a mockery of ratings if the rounds have mulligans.



yeah, that's CRAZY!



i suppose they should not sanction this from now on or not sell muligans!!B.S.

Typically, if not always, in statistical analysis they drop the outliers in both directions, since their absolute value as relates to the median are equal, thus dropping one set and not the other skews the data.



This is a really good point. If a scientist did an experiment and only dropped the low or "bad" values, he'd be skewing the data. That's a huge no-no in science. Why should it be different here?

how many of the rounds thrown out are "tankers". most are probably off days, similiar to the on days just in the other direction. If a guy with a 885 shoots a 975 round, hows that differ from the guy with a 975 rating who blows up with a 885 round. Remember this is supposed to quantitative, not qualitative.




I am sure if they had it their way then they would not drop any rounds. But since there are a select few that might intentionally tank theri rating they have to do something to kinda control that.

There is a big difference in a 975 shooting a 885 round as compared to a 885 player shooting a round of 975, it takes skill for the 885 guy to shoot that 975 and a 975 player could post an 885 anytime he wanted to by tanking(no skill in that). Like i say though, it is all about keeping some sort of handle on those who may tank on purpose.

because the laws of nature are not based on skill.

neither is thinking, apparently! :eek:

What if you have a guy who plays his hometown course 8 times a day, everyday. He plays a tourney at his home course and shoots exceptionally well because he knows the course. When he plays any other tourney, he shoots quite a bit worse. The high round would increase his player rating and would not reflect his true skill.

What if you have a guy who plays his hometown course 8 times a day, everyday. He plays a tourney at his home course and shoots exceptionally well because he knows the course. When he plays any other tourney, he shoots quite a bit worse. The high round would increase his player rating and would not reflect his true skill.



AMs everywhere do that.

Why would that matter??? What benifit does the guy doing that get from having a better rating cause of home course rounds???

The drops are bagger deterants plain and simple.

I would guess they are far more concerned with people being rated below their actual skill level then they are with the folks that might end up rated above their skill level. Being overrated really only hurts the person thats overrated where being underrated hurts everyone that person might play with if it allows him to play in division lower then they should be playing in.

Personally I just want a system thats consistent and doesnt change from year to year so that I can see if I am improving or not improving as the case may be. I play for fun and to get better and if I happen to beat a few other people along the way then great if not I still had fun playing. I certainly wouldnt want someone purposely bagging in my division. With my rating I could legitimately play recreational but I dont see the point in it when I have more fun trying to beat the folks in ma2 that are better then me. Hopefully with this round of ratings I wont be rated in the recreational range though :)

I for one dont understand the reason for wanting to play in a lower division. Unless you have a big event locally to you its going to cost you alot more then you could possibly make from most events by selling what you won. I suppose some twisted form of bragging rights but who really cares who won ma2? or ma1 for that matter? Personally I would think anyone playing would want to be shooting for those pro payouts! Most of the Am players I know got more plastic then they know what to do with and end up donating it for ctp's, and to help out small tournies or beginning golfers.

Oh well I guess in the end its what ever floats your boat as long as you arent hogging the pond for yourself and I see the dropping the low rated rounds as their means of keeping a few more baggers out of the pond.

Why set a date that it will be posted if they arent going to post it???



Whaaaa....
The day isnt over for another 11 hrs PST :p

They did say between midnight Sunday and midnight Tuesday. ;)

Why set a date that it will be posted if they arent going to post it???



Doesnt really matter when they do it. :p
Youll still be a "BAGGER" The only thing that will change is just how "BIG a BAGGER" you'll be /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
:D

my prediction: 9:35 PM EDT TUESDAY, May 24, 2005

Anyone know why the AM Master's Cup doesn't have any ratings? There were obviously enought members with ratings to compile it... will they be used for this update if so?

Thanks!

my prediction: 9:35 PM EDT TUESDAY, May 24, 2005



hmm...chuck hasn't been on today(well not that i have noticed)...maybe they will be up tonight...*shrug*

if the ratings were there but arent now, thats a sign that they will be included in the forthcoming official ratings. once an event is sent in for final processing, the early unofficial ratings are removed from the website/database. so, disappearing ratings usually mean the event is in the next ratings release.

You sure? I am not sure it necesarily means that. I think the unoffical ratings are just taken down when they do the points&standings update which really doesnt mean they are for sure gonna be in the ratings update does it?

not "for sure". just "usually".

sandalman is 99% correct....

if there are prelim ratings up and then they are taken down then more than likely they will be included. The whole reason why the prelim ratings are taken down is because the PDGA got the official results.

The 1% that doesn't get include are the ones that become official after the deadline that the PDGA sets for tournies to be included in a ratings update...

does that make sense?

How many rated rounds do I have to play before I get rated?

-Doug



Anybody?

How many rated rounds do I have to play before I get rated?

-Doug



Anybody?



That is easy....1

as long as you were a PDGA member when you played that 1 round :)

I understood. I was just pointing out that one doesnt actually mean the other but the timing works out that way for the most part.

If its anything like the past 2 updates by about 11 PM EST they should be up.

Anyone know why the AM Master's Cup doesn't have any ratings? There were obviously enought members with ratings to compile it... will they be used for this update if so?

Thanks!



I believe that ONLY events with Stats turned in BY MAY 1st will be included in this update (BG Ams aside)

The Masters Cup Ams was held on that weekend so it MAY NOT be included. Those might wait until next time. :p

But I suppose if the results for the tourneys I've played in aren't posted then it won't matter, eh? Is there a certain timeframe that TD's are required to post results in?

928.... i have a 1001 but it's not in my most recent 8, so my rating might not go up as much as I thought it would

But I suppose if the results for the tourneys I've played in aren't posted then it won't matter, eh? Is there a certain timeframe that TD's are required to post results in?



There is SUPPOSED to be a timeline to get results in, but I know a tourny that i played last july didn't get included until the winter update.

928.... i have a 1001 but it's not in my most recent 8, so my rating might not go up as much as I thought it would



My rating will probably be around a 860...but I don't care about my rating because the rating is based on who plays the tourny.

spoken like an 860 rated player

I'm 958 and my last 22 rounda have averaged around 978-980 but my past eight were on the lower side so I will be happy to hit 965. :D

My rating will probably be around a 860...but I don't care about my rating because the rating is based on who plays the tourny.



hmmmmmmmm?

Lol!

920 what the hel<font color="black">l</font> I know it should have gone up from last year.

If you look at the ratings yours hasnt been updated!!! Dont go popping your mouth off before you know whats up. If you look under your rating is says as of DECEMBER!!!

Just my way of say what the [I'm a potty-mouth!], I thought the ratings would be updated on May 23, 2005.

From [*****] to [INAPPROPRIATE WORD] and now [I'm a potty-mouth!]

Just my way of say what the [I'm a potty-mouth!], I thought the ratings would be updated on May 23, 2005.



Have you noticed that May 23rd is not even over yet?

yeah quiet

Yes, I have but where I live it's soon passing into May 24th. At least as a business day it time has passed.

I can't wait for this next update, I have a couple 1000+ rated rounds that will be going into my rating!!

I can't wait for this next update, I have a couple 1000+ rated rounds that will be going into my rating!!



Congratulations on that accomplishment.

That's some funny shyte, I can't stop laughing :D:D:D

Still laughing.

Yes, I have but where I live it's soon passing into May 24th. At least as a business day it time has passed.



We are not on business day time, this is pdga time... its an entirely different system

Yup. They probably started the update today. As it is probably being transmitted via Morse code over tin cans and twine, it might take a while! ;)

STILL LAUGHING

The ratings still aren't up yet! I want to see what Coda will jump over 1000 or not. I'm guess Boobs will probably drop to 950 :D

he who updates ratings should probably have DSL or some form of faster internet.

maybe the pdga could supplement said person's internet access bill to accomodate for timely ratings uploads... I'm sure it's an issue that not many players would see a problem with as it benefits them directly. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The ratings still aren't up yet! I want to see what Coda will jump over 1000 or not. I'm guess Boobs will probably drop to 950 :D



Sweet I will finally beat Booobs. :D:D

I don't think so, but you will probally beat me seeing the way I have played this year so far.

Only two rounds over 1000, and 3 above my current rating. I think that I am the one that is going to drop to 950.

Then I can pull a Brian James and go back to playing Advanced. :D

I'm gonna guess around 915-925 for me. I don't have many rounds, so it could fluctuate a lot.

I should have a 980-1000 rated round in there. But then again, I might also have a 880-900 round in there.

I can't stand waiting! :D

You should considering you haven't beaten me in a sanctioned event. :D

ya, I still kicked ur arse at Snow Farm!!!!!! :p

And u have only played in my division twice at States where we tied and at Waco where I had no incentive to play after that first round.

nice, I'm bored waiting for the ratings to come out and decided to check out some stats. Looks like I will have roughly 64 1000+ rated rounds which will be included in this next update :D

Waco where I had no incentive to play after that first round.



And I did? I was on the card behind you so we were still close but the fact remains I played ok after the 1st round and was 1 out of the cash. Now that I think of it I would've cashed in a NT with a sub 900 round. :D

I'm only 60 behind ya

nice, I'm bored waiting for the ratings to come out and decided to check out some stats. Looks like I will have roughly 64 1000+ rated rounds which will be included in this next update :D



How often do you look in the mirror? let me guess.... all day?

get over yourself you play discgolf.

I only look in the mirror 20 hours a day, the other 4 are reserved for disc golfing. If it's rainy outside, then maybe 21-22 :)

Ratings are up in WI!
Check the chat room ..

Oh Man what a tease...
Go to bed, they are hardly ever out on the Date...
D.P. :o

there must have been a glitch and all the latest rounds have been eaten :D

and up go the ratings!!!!

the ratings are up!

where?
:confused:

ok so there not up, at least it gives people a sense of hope right before they refresh the page :)

man you suck, so is it usually like this when people are waiting for ratings? :D

the ratings are up!



lol

*yawn*

Retarted.

Retarted.



Now THAT is funny.

And unless you identify yourself, you just got yourself banned to boot. Bye bye!

Darned string broke!

tic tic tic tic tic tic boom!! :eek:

What are you talking about? Banned? for what? an opinion? a joke? a mystery?

For being a Smartast. :D:D

What are you talking about? Banned? for what? an opinion? a joke? a mystery?



Yes, that's about all it takes now. Make one non-constructive and derogatory post as an anon, you could be gone.

Wow. some people are so serious. here's a serious question, what would stop me from making another anon and posting freely?

And unless you identify yourself, you just got yourself banned to boot. Bye bye!



IDENTIFY YOURSELF! Hahahahahaaaaa!!! I'm on the floor laughing....typing with one finger. Guess which one!!!!

Wow. some people are so serious. here's a serious question, what would stop me from making another anon and posting freely?




Absolutely NOTHING!!!

there wont be new ratings until 9:35 EDT Tuesday, May 24 at the earliest... so save an electron tree and limit your posts today :)

am or pm?

am or pm?



yes, it will be am or pm or tomorrow sometime ;)

PM. altho that woulda been a good question if it wasnt already past 9:35 AM :p

PM. altho that woulda been a good question if it wasnt already past 9:35 AM :p



not everyone understands the whole time zone thing...

well i wasnt really paying attention, im on central time. and i do get the whle time zone thing... :D

Here's my guess:

they've hit a snafu with the new ratings formula and there are some numbers they aren't comfortable publishing just yet. Around midnight they'll publish the new ratings of most members -- with the exception of those of us complaining they aren't up yet (those updates will be strangely delayed) :eek: :D

to help avert creating expectations that get dashed, it might be a good idea not to publish in <font color="red"> red </font> when the next update will be unless it is a target date the pdga is confident can be met...

my 2 cents

and they shouldnt attempt to publish so close to full moon. thats ALWAYs asking for trouble!

They're still on schedule and not late until midnight tonight PDT. I've reviewed the draft file and the numbers look OK. However, Theo had a problem with file when it was loaded on our test server. I suspect Roger won't have time to fix the web glitch until after work today so Theo should hopefully have the file for uploading this evening. The double weighting part of the new formulas looks like it increased our number of 1000+ players by a few.

Thanks for the info Chuck -- how's your gem course coming along?

btw, is Bowling Green Am.s included? also should i expect to go up or down? ;-)

Werent the ratings supposed to be out on the 15th??? So wouldnt they already be late they just arent late for the date set after they were already late to begin with???

Didn't you read the fine print? That was May 15th Ultimate time! :eek: :D :D

Mayber we should change this note on the front page:

<font color="red">Next Ratings Update 5/23/05</font>

to:

<font color="red"> Next Ratings Update 5/24/05 after 9:35 EDT </font>

Just a thought....

Wow, all you guys must have jobs more boring than mine to be so ravenous over this... c'mon, does a few extra hours or days really matter that much? I mean, I'm really excited to see what my rounds rated at the tournys I've played the past two weekends, but it doesn't really matter if I see it today or tomorrow. Of course, I'll be lucky to break 700, so maybe it matters more as your rating goes up. I'm hoping to move up into the Intermediate Blind Middle School Girls Division in my next tournament :)

Around midnight they'll publish the new ratings of most members -- with the exception of those of us complaining they aren't up yet (those updates will be strangely delayed) :eek: :D




I think they should take until next week then, they are doing a fine job. :)

A lot of people show your viewpoint on patience dj. However, Having our player ratings updated quarterly is one of the features of membership.

I think that people have a right to be upset that the ratings are late, especially since it has been 6 months since the last real update.

Hate to be the one to tell u that the last couple of weekends will not be in this rating update. :(

But the fact of the matter is if they say they are going up on a certain date then that is when they should go up, and on top of that ratings are suposed to go up in the middle of the month according to the PDGA.

Oh, I totally agree with you, deathbypar, that it is a feature of membership and that people should be upset when they don't "get what they pay for" so to say. However... this is a 98 page thread and it's almost completely devoted to complaining. I complain all the time, but you can only say "I wish the ratings were up" so many different ways...

Wow, all you guys must have jobs more boring than mine to be so ravenous over this... c'mon, does a few extra hours or days really matter that much? I mean, I'm really excited to see what my rounds rated at the tournys I've played the past two weekends, but it doesn't really matter if I see it today or tomorrow.



first, i work evenings. (so yes i should be practicing, not key tapping)
second i have made a vow to myself to commit hari kari (sp?) unless i get my rating above 950 by the end of this year :o

so you can see that for me the stakes are high :p :D

Hay Jake, I think that it is time to update your location.

U coming down any time soon.

Hay Jake, I think that it is time to update your location.

U coming down any time soon.



Why chris, don't want to claim me anymore? :D

I will be down in 2 weeks, my wife will be having our baby down there. I don't know If there will be any time for golf though?

Besides, I don't want anyone to know that I live in Oklahoma. :o

In that case we will ignor you. :D

Wow, all you guys must have jobs more boring than mine to be so ravenous over this... c'mon, does a few extra hours or days really matter that much? I mean, I'm really excited to see what my rounds rated at the tournys I've played the past two weekends, but it doesn't really matter if I see it today or tomorrow.



As I said earlier, retarted.

BAN SMARTAST

They're still on schedule and not late until midnight tonight PDT



that would be an accurate statement based on what youve previously said in the forums chuck... but as was noted above (im sure hundreds of times now), the pdga site says 5/23.

the ratings guide for 2005 also needs to be updated to reflect the "new" ratings system. not to give people something else to complain about, but i went to look for the official explanation of how the double-weighting system will work and the pdf is out of date. and with how horrible the search feature is on these forums, no luck going that route either.

and with how horrible the search feature is on these forums, no luck going that route either.



I agree that the search feature could be improved. Did you try using + in front of key words?

BAN SMARTAST



Why? cuz i think it's dumb to get your panties in a bunch over a formula which shows how well you usually play disc golf?

I think it is funny out you posted as that name for the first time in over a year, what happened, your other name get banned????? Keep it up and this one will too.

The ratings have finally been posted.

BAN SMARTAST



Why? cuz i think it's dumb to get your panties in a bunch over a formula which shows how well you usually play disc golf?



No, because you insist on using the term retarded so freely.

I have a good friend whose son is mentally handicapped and I find it offensive.

...............over a formula which shows how well you usually play disc golf?



It may be working in 49 other states, but something is wrong in TX. :)

I think it is funny out you posted as that name for the first time in over a year, what happened, your other name get banned?????



Uh, no. This forum is pretty [I'm a potty-mouth!] so I stay away. However, I am extremely slow at work and have nothing better to do then poke fun. And I think it's extremely funny, all the hubub about ratings that is. I would understand if it were a ranking system, but it's not. Besides I like to see how different all of us disc geeks really are.

No, because you insist on using the term retarded so freely.

I have a good friend whose son is mentally handicapped and I find it offensive.



Sorry for the offense. My brother is challenged. I'm not offended by it though. See we ARE different!

Was May 1st the cut-off date?

Top Ratings. (http://www.pdga.com/player_ratings.php)

...Schweb's posts are slightly less rated, now. :o

...Christopher Brophy has been @ 998 nigh every single time I've looked, for the last 4-so years, and yes he plays regularly, albeit not-as-often, now-a-days. :cool:

It may be working in 49 other states, but something is wrong in TX. :)



You got that right! I've never wanted out of a state faster then when I was in Texas.

Then why haven't you left? :D

BAN SMARTAST



Why? cuz i think it's dumb to get your panties in a bunch over a formula which shows how well you usually play disc golf?

yeah, that should pretty much do it.

plus, you mispelled "smartest".

and with how horrible the search feature is on these forums, no luck going that route either.



I agree that the search feature could be improved. Did you try using + in front of key words?



it's not finding relevant threads thats the problem. it's the fact that darn near each and every post in each matching thread comes back as a hit. if i could see JUST a relevant post that'd be great. i hate getting 14 pages of results (and 8 of them are just listings of posts within the same thread) and then im left with "ok, so i need to look through this thread. but it's 90 pages long and people keep going on 5-page tangents about how one person is a crybaby, this guy's retarded, that one's a know-it-all, this dude should stop posting and not even his mother likes him". (sometimes all of those are even said about one person hehe) You know, the usual stuff you have to wade through ;) only it's even more obnoxious when it's archived somewhere and you have to dig through it all at once instead of seeing it go by daily in small chunks.