Libertarian Bob Barr sues to have McCain, Obama cast off Texas' ballot (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/state/stories/DN-barr_19pol.ART.State.Edition1.268aa61.html)

Take a break and check out these old campaign adds

<embed src="http://services.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/271557392" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashVars="videoId=1797098254&playerId=271557392&viewerSecureGatewayURL=https://console.brightcove.com/services/amfgateway&servicesURL=http://services.brightcove.com/services&cdnURL=http://admin.brightcove.com&domain=embed&autoStart=false&" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="486" height="412" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>

Commentary by CNN's Rollins (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/22/rollins.economy/index.html)

Now I see why Huckabee didn't win. This guy is too reasoned for the far right base. :)

Huckabee didn't win because he didn't have enough cash. I might have a Huckabee sign in my front yard if he was the Republican candidate.

My wife and I were discussing this just the other day. One reason NOT to leave your home is because the government will not let you go back to YOUR property.

If I lived in an area that this could happen, trust me, I would have my gun, water, and food to live for weeks without electricity or water.



Yeah, the irony is that most of the freaking idiots who had to be rescued from beachfront communities share the exact same sentiments: "get the government out of my life" to "please someone, come save my sorry donkey."

If they could have only made it through the first two days, then that gun, water and food would have been useful.

Honestly, I don't think we would ever live in an area like that.

That is something we talked about when we purchased our house. We refused to look at homes in flood prone areas. There is an area in Carrollton that the homes are build below a levee. Now I am sure that levee was built a long time ago and I have NEVER seen it actually hold water back, BUT we refused to even look at homes in that area. Fact is, we purchased a home on top of a hill.

I have heard and now seen rumors of this


Subject: Fw: The Dems are going to fake an illiness for Biden and replace w/Hillary



I'm passing this on.....



Greg





Subject: The Dems are going to fake an illiness for Biden and replace

w/Hillary

Date: Saturday, September 20, 2008, 7:50 PM Interesting twist...



The Dems are going to fake an Illness for Biden and Replace w/Hillary Let me

share some info with you that i have gotten from excellent sources within

the DNC:



On or about October 5th, Biden will excuse himself from the ticket, citing

health problems, and he will be replaced by Hillary. This is timed to occur

after the VP debate on 10/2.



There have been talks all weekend about how to proceed with this info.

Generally, the feeling is that we should all go ahead and get it out there

to

as many blog sites and personal email lists as is possible. I have already

seen a few short blurbs about this - the "health problem" cited in those

articles was aneurysm.



Probably many of you have heard the same rumblings. however, at this point,

with this inside info from the DNC, it looks like this Obama strategy will

be a go. Therefore, it seems that the best strategy is to get out in front

of this Obama maneuver, spell it out in detail, and thereby expose it for

the grand manipulation that it is.



So, let's start mixing this one up and cut the obamites off at the pass -

send this info out to as many people as you can - post about it on websites

and blogs - etc etc



I WAIT EVERY DAY TO HEAR THIS HAS HAPPENED WITH JOE BIDEN, ESPECIALLY SINCE

I HEARD HIS SON WAS A LOBBIEST, AND GOT MONEY FROM Fannie &amp; Freddie. I just

imagine he wants out baddddddddddddddddddddd.





Now that I reposte it, I am willing to bet it is an internet rumor

..."socializing the risk while privatizing the profit."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&amp;refer=columnist_hassett&amp;sid=aSKS oiNbnQY0

Now that I reposte it, I am willing to bet it is an internet rumor



I know it would be big, but would it really surprize you?

Bryan, that sounds exactly like something I expect to read on Snopes.

I expect Palin to be replaced before Biden, as Obama is leading and that lead is growing. Red states are showing signs of turning blue each day. McCain is having to expand his operations to defend states that Bush won in 2004. It isn't over by any means, but making a VP change now would only harm Obama. And unlike McCain's aides, Obama's aides have shown competence and wouldn't want to take that kind of risk. (At times it looks like McCain's staff is trying to lose the election.)

EDIT: It appears that Snopes is on it and currently it's veracity is undetermined, with the likelihood that it is false -- based on historical perspective.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp

Biden would be dropped before Palin. She is loved by nearly every die hard Republican I know. Maybe before the election, they will see she is no different than any other politician.

it seems that the local republicans don't want just "McCain" signs. They will only put out signs that say "McCain - Palin" or they will not put out signs at all. (Like me) However they are having success putting out Kenny Marchant signs in those yards. (our congressman and former mayor of Carrollton)

BTW, yesterday, Ron Paul officially endorsed Paster Chuck Baldwin for president.

Oh, organizers hate yard signs. :)
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/breaking-obama-campaign-organizers.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/obama_dollars.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/obama_and_life.html

Airplane Conversation

Barack Obama was seated next to a little girl on an airplane. He turned to
her and said, 'Let's talk. I've heard that flights go quicker if you strike
up a conversation with your fellow passenger.'

The little girl, who had just opened her book, closed it slowly and said to
the Obama, 'What would you like to talk about?'

'Oh, I don't know,' said the Obama. 'How about What Changes I Should Make To
America?' and he smiles.

'OK, ' she said. 'That could be an interesting topic. But let me ask you a
question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass -
. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty,
and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?'

Obama, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it
and says, 'Hmmm, I have no idea.'

To which the little girl replies, 'Do you really feel qualified to change
America when you don't know "crap." :D

Obama, who said that "Jesus is his Lord" describes young pregnancy as "punishment":
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=12231

"Part of what being a leader does is to instill confidence is to demonstrate what he or she knows what they are talking about and to communicating to people ... this is how we can fix this," Biden said. "When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the princes of greed. He said, 'look, here's what happened.'"

http://cbs2.com/politics/joe.biden.interview.2.823202.html

Heart beat away from the presidency?

Did anyone tell Biden that the first TV stations were not on the air until the 40's????

He meant Radio and the Fireside Chats.

At least Biden is allowed to speak in front of reporters without assistance, unlike other high-profile VP candidates.

Don't get me wrong, Biden's paper-cut sized gaffes may eventually have an impact, but the silence from Palin is quite deafening, especially when she's calling for Washington "transparency" (one thing Obama has already accomplished in DC). Let's see if she's the real deal or if she's just base-energizing eye candy. Right now, odds are on the latter.

Washington "transparency" (one thing Obama has already accomplished in DC).


To what are you referring?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hpwM4Jjyrs

Before and after the statement in question, she said "pray that/for."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hpwM4Jjyrs

Before and after the statement in question, she said "pray that/for."



I like that video

"Fox news is in for a rough 2008"

http://mediamatters.org/columns/200801290001

hmmm...

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/august_ratings_fnc_most_watched_for_80_months_9370 8.asp

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/09/17/cable-news-ratings-for/5165

Washington "transparency" (one thing Obama has already accomplished in DC).


To what are you referring?

USASpending.gov site created by Senators Obama and Coburn (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/18/palins-transparency-proposal-already-exists-in-dc/)

When desperate, blame the media. (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/24/new-york-times-investigates-senior-mccain-advisor/#more-20134)

Again, are they trying to lose the election? I hope McCain kept the receipt for this campaign staff. He needs to return them to Bush and get back his group from 2000.

spin masters and papa bear (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&amp;title=sarah-palin-gender-card)

Let's hope that honest and intelligent people can separate a paper reporting facts from a campaign screaming at the top of its lungs.

It was first reported that he was on retainer, they cried "The Times are Obamacommies" and "well, he hasn't recieved funds since 2005." Then, it was found out that his firm was on retainer since last month." Now, they again claim "The times are Obamacommies."

Notice that nowhere does the campaign attempt to actually dispute the facts. Hint #1. Was this second fact even unearthed by the Times? I saw Isikoff (sp) on TV last night reporting it. He is from Newsweek I believe. That is hint #2: the rant is completely irrational, a comical parody. "The times are commies" as a rebuttal to other papers reporting it????????

This probably won't matter to many people, after all, Rush has now proclaimed that Obama is an Arab. This will have far more effect on the electorate.

So far James, brain power is beating lung power.

Rush has now proclaimed that Obama is an Arab.



Just to clarify. Obama ethnicity is 44% Arab, 6% African Negro, and 50% caucasian (just how that 50% is broken down I can't identify). One talk show host pointing that fact out is going to "effect the electorate?" He never condemned him for his ethnicity and I won't either.

Obama is the one repeatedly lying about race. He is constantly trying to divide people on racial lines. That's a fact and if you need proof, it's only a click away. Obama has deliberately lied about race in order to create fear and anger in the hopes of gaining votes.

BTW, that 50% caucasian part doesn't get talked about much by Obama does it? (let alone the 44% Arab part) Of course, 20 years of being a part of the "Rev." Wrights church that preached white hate could have alot to do with that. Remember, it isn't when Wrights hate was exposed that Obama cut his ties (as if that's the place to distance yourself from it), it was when Obama said "shhhhhh," and Wright refused.

Well, this is a big surprise, playtowin mentions that Obama is really an arab, a caucasian, and a negro, then asserts that Obama "is trying to divide people along racial lines."

Nice work. Post another picture of Obama in sheets. Title the picture "racist." We'll chew on the irony.

Did anyone tell Biden that the first TV stations were not on the air until the 40's????

He meant Radio and the Fireside Chats.

Except FDR wasn't president then. Biden simply meant that he didn't know what the heck he was talking about but that wasn't going to stop him from talking.

Can you imagine how the media would be all over this if it was Palin who was putting TV and FDR in the White House in 1929?

Just to clarify. Obama ethnicity is 44% Arab, 6% African Negro, and 50% caucasian (just how that 50% is broken down I can't identify).



Where did you come up with that nonsense? Rush? Or do you consider Kenya part of the Arabian Peninsula?

Barack Obama Sr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr.)

And James, notice he mentions the proof is a click away, but doesn't provide the click.


Bruce, considering Biden has a history of running his mouth while Palin is the (national) political newcomer and has been kept away from the media (due to unreadiness?), I think the difference is explainable. Fair? No. But explainable.

EDIT: The Republicans set the rules with the media, now they have to live with them.

It's not from Rush. It's nowhere on the internet that I can find in five minutes of googling.

Curiously, it sounds more like the percentages of those ethnic groups that voted for Bush last time!

Bully for McCain for calling to suspend the campaign to handle the bailout. Good move, both for the country and for himself. This is the 2000 McCain, so I think he came up with this himself.

I just heard Obama say he's not as of right now, but I think he's a little off here. I understand his reasoning but he's taking a risk until the bill is approved. Being in DC in person is visually better than tele/videoconferences.

I do agree with Obama about not moving the debate. Domestic and Foreign issues can and do run concurrently, so the President does need the ability to handle both at the same time.

Obama ethnicity is 44% Arab, 6% African Negro, and 50% caucasian



Ok, Obama's mom was from Kansas and was a white Agnostic. That is the 50% I agree with.

But where do you come up with the other part.

Obama's Dad

Barrack Hussain Obama Sr. was From Kenya and was very black. That makes Obama 50% African or Black.

Barracks Fathers parents were both of the Luo tribe.
Hussein Onyango Obama - Converted from Christianity to Islam according to family.
Habiba Akuma Obama

Obama's Great Grandparents were also from Kenya
Obama was born in Kendu Bay, Kenya
Nyaoke

(Obama had four wives, one of whom was Nyaoke. She fathered many children, of whom Onyango was the fifth son.)

So that leaves him being 50% American 50% Kenyan or Black or technically Luo tribe.

It's not from Rush. It's nowhere on the internet that I can find in five minutes of googling.

Curiously, it sounds more like the percentages of those ethnic groups that voted for Bush last time!



It took a lot of research in the last hour to find some credible info on Obama's family. Most of what you find is hearsay and not based on facts.

I actually found a web site that lists Obama's family tree. His mothers side of the family go back a few generations in America.

[QUOTE]


You need to remember that Obama was NOT raised by his father. In fact he only met his father once when he was 10 years old.

Here (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/23/limbaugh-obama-arab-2/)

KKrasinski, I didn't delve deeply into it, but I heard secondhand that the logic is something like "Kenya is really arabic, or 88% arabic and 12% african, so Obama is........." Just another lame attempt to merge science and racism to lend scientific credence to the same old scare tactic: "see, he really is arabic, I mean a muslim, I mean a terrorist." It probably makes sense to those whose minds are inclined to think that way.

Tony, I view this as the 2008 McCain. Doing anything to get elected. This has been a issue all week, why now, when he is in freefall? Obama should say "No, we won't cancel the debate, but instead debate on the economic crisis, in order to educate voters on this important issue."

Tony, I view this as the 2008 McCain. Doing anything to get elected. This has been a issue all week, why now, when he is in freefall? Obama should say "No, we won't cancel the debate, but instead debate on the economic crisis, in order to educate voters on this important issue."



I still think 2000. If it was 2008, he'd have slammed the media somewhere in his statement. Although this would be the second Hail Mary he's attempted (#1 being Palin).

And Obama did say something along those lines, mentioning how this crisis is tied to all parts of foreign policy. It was a very good appearance by Obama.

KKrasinski, I didn't delve deeply into it, but I heard secondhand that the logic is something like "Kenya is really arabic, or 88% arabic and 12% african, so Obama is........."



If that is really the logic, then it's just more nonsense.

According the the CIA World Factbook, (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ke.html#People)Kenya ethnic groups are:

"Kikuyu 22%, Luhya 14%, Luo 13%, Kalenjin 12%, Kamba 11%, Kisii 6%, Meru 6%, other African 15%, non-African (Asian, European, and Arab) 1%"

and Kenya's religions are:

"Protestant 45%, Roman Catholic 33%, Muslim 10%, indigenous beliefs 10%, other 2%
note: a large majority of Kenyans are Christian, but estimates for the percentage of the population that adheres to Islam or indigenous beliefs vary widely"

Well, this is a big surprise, playtowin mentions that Obama is really an arab, a caucasian, and a negro, then asserts that Obama "is trying to divide people along racial lines."

Nice work. Post another picture of Obama in sheets. Title the picture "racist." We'll chew on the irony.



http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_Church_Racism/2008/01/07/62285.html
He didn't leave that Church because of what it taught, he attended it for 20 years without a problem. He left because "Rev. Wright" wouldn't shut up during his campaign.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178554189155003.html
When you KNOW that you are telling a lies to Mexicans about what someone said concerning NAFTA and Mexican Law, what does that make you? Don't blame his campaign, it said "I'm Obama and I approve this message." Where's the "transparency" of his own words?

I mentioned his ethnicity because obviously you haven't bothered to look it up. Have you even bothered to read any of Obama's own book as you support him publically? There isn't one thing "racist" in simply stating what someones genitic ethnicity is. It is highly irresponsible and damaging in light of how far we've come for you to imply what you did in your post. You should be ashamed sir.

If you are going to quote me, learn how to do it properly, otherwise it is a lie because you've misquoted me too many times to claim ignorance. I said African Negro, not "negro." A distinction that highlights the sensitivity I clearly demonstrated in discussing his ethnicity as a statement of fact, not a comentary.

It took a lot of research in the last hour to find some credible info on Obama's family. Most of what you find is hearsay and not based on facts.



Not hard to find at all. You coulda just clicked on the Obama Sr. Wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_Sr.) I provided and scrolled down to "references" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_Sr.#References). The second one down is particularly useful. Chicago Sun Times Barack Family Tree (http://www.suntimes.com/images/cds/MP3/obamatree.pdf)

Open the .pdf to find the following in the lower left corner:
"SOURCES: To trace Barack Obama's heritage, the Sun-Times started with his book, Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance, and the genealogical research of William Addams Reitwiesner on Reitwiesner's Web site, www.wargs.com. In addition, we verified information and dug up new facts with documents on Ancestry.com, in state archives, from public libraries and from other sources. Those who helped include Sam Dunnam of Dunham-Singletary Family Connections, Donna Dodson of the Newton County (Ark.) Historical Society, Virginia genealogist Brigitte Burkett, genealogist Christopher Challender Child of the New England Historic Genealogical Society, David Lee Dunham, Leon McCurry, Robert Mardock, Rae Janette McCurry Marshall, Virginia Goeldner and Maya Soetoro-Ng.

I mentioned his ethnicity because obviously you haven't bothered to look it up.



Those that have looked it up, proved your statement wrong.

I mentioned his ethnicity because obviously you haven't bothered to look it up.



And you have??? If so, then you are lying in your post specifying his ethnicity. If you have not, then you are lying in your implication of authority. Which is it?

Just found out more about McCain's campaign suspension...and now I'm starting to see James' may be right about the whole thing.

Apparently, Obama called McCain this morning about issuing a joint statement. McCain's side responded affirmatively at 2:30, and then McCain unilaterally went public 15 minutes later.


Why not just move the debate to DC and be done with it?

What are you talking about? I'll change my statement.

Well, this is a big surprise, playtowin mentions that Obama is really an arab, a caucasian, and an african negro, then asserts that Obama "is trying to divide people along racial lines."

better?

What did I imply? What should I be ashamed of? I don't go around posting pictures of Obama in sheets, or dissecting his ethnic makeup, which just happens to include code for terrorist. Go ahead, rationalize it all. I know, it is all innocuous on your part, no intent to lead. Right. Right? I mean you could have posted one of thousands of pictures, or focused on one of thousands of aspects of his ethnicity, but you choose those. You think everyone is a fool and can't discern your intent. Actually, spare me the rationalizations, actions speak loader than rationalizations.

It's not from Rush.



Well, maybe the specific number is not, but as late as TWO DAYS AGO Limbaugh restated that Obama is not black, but Arab:

<object width="320" height="335"><param name="movie" value="http://mediamatters.org/static/flash/mmfaplayer.swf"></param><param name="flashvars" value="config=http://mediamatters.org/tools/flash/config?id=463766"></param><embed src="http://mediamatters.org/static/flash/mmfaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" flashvars="config=http://mediamatters.org/tools/flash/config?id=463766" width="320" height="335"></embed></object>

LIMBAUGH: "These polls on how one-third of blue-collar white Democrats won't vote for Obama because he's black, and -- but he's not black. Do you know he has not one shred of African-American blood? He doesn't have any African -- that's why when they asked whether he was authentic, whether he's down for the struggle. He's Arab. You know, he's from Africa. He's from Arab parts of Africa. He's not -- his father was -- he's not African-American. The last thing that he is is African-American. I guess that's splitting hairs, I don't -- it's just all these little things, everything seems upside-down today in this country." -- Sept. 22 The Rush Limbaugh Show

Edit -- the "44%" appears to have originated here. (http://kennethelamb.blogspot.com/2008/02/barak-obama-questions-about-ethnic.html) Note that the assertion made in this blog is completely unsupported by the author. No relevant link or source is listed, and reader comments that include requests for source material are rebuffed (comments can be found below the article).

And James, notice he mentions the proof is a click away, but doesn't provide the click.



Yes I did provide the "click" that proves Obama ("I approve this message") and his campaign knowingly lied about what Rush said in order to divide people over race! He has played the race card all throughout his campaign ( http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/Story?id=5495348&amp;page=1 ). Did Obama not say:

"Nobody really thinks that Bush or McCain have a real answer for the challenges we face, so what they're going to try to do is make you scared of me. You know, he's not patriotic enough. He's got a funny name. You know, he doesn't look like all those other presidents on those dollar bills, you know. He's risky."

When did Bush or McCain say these things?They haven't! But Obama did! In other obvious news, Clay Aikin "say's that he's finally coming out of the closet!"

Like I said, I have recently posted solid information that proves what he said in his ad about linking McCain to Rush, and saying Rush called Mexicans this and that was a flat out lie. This is race baiting and Obama knows it. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said "a click away."

Maybe you'll recall this post a couple days ago. It specifically shows how "Obama deliberately used race to create fear and anger for votes." It's only a "click away."


"or that Obama sucks that bad."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/09/021545.php

Rush was describing actual MEXICAN LAWS!

http://download.premiereradio.net/guest/...ng%20Update.mp4 (http://download.premiereradio.net/guest/rushlimb/mp4/Rush%20Limbaugh%20-%20Apr%2006%202006%20-%20Morning%20Update.mp4)


The specific percentages I posted were only followed up with a breif coment about how a talk show host simply stated that fact and did not, and nor would I, condemn him because of his ethnicity. You don't believe it's a fact, I do. I don't have Obama's father's birth cirtificate and cannot explain why Lamb doesn't either. He says he went there and found the information he needed to come up with the percentages. If those percentages are correct, and I believe they are, then Obama has alot more (never related to what I said "is a click away") to explain. A LOT more.

Well, this is a big surprise, playtowin mentions that Obama is really an arab, a caucasian, and an african negro, then <font color="red"> (In the next paragraph!) </font> asserts that Obama "is trying to divide people along racial lines."

What did I imply?



<font color="red"> Gee, I dunno, your implication is so "innocuous." </font>

I don't have Obama's father's birth cirtificate and cannot explain why Lamb doesn't either. He says he went there and found the information he needed to come up with the percentages. If those percentages are correct, and I believe they are...



Best argument I have ever read for voter IQ requirements.

I think McCain scewed the pooch on this one. Some small percentage of citizens (you know who they are) will laud this decision, but the majority will see it as political posturing, and cite his migrating position over the past two weeks. Look for a polling swing away from McCain because of this.

Sometimes, being a "maverick" is not a good thing.

What would the harm be in both candidates focussing on the financial mess for a couple days? Seriously, what would be the harm? Monday wasn't good for Obama? It wasn't "political posturing" when Obama decided to reject the idea? How about his rejection of any town hall meetings with McCain? There wasn't any "political posturing" (or telepromters) there?

http://www.bigmouthfrog.org/2008/06/26/obama-the-audacity-to-avoid-town-hall-meetings/

Obama said: "We know how we got into this mess. What we need now is leadership that gets us out." Just not this Friday? :confused:

I almost wasted my time responding to a poster that obviously has no other purpose other than to get a response. So I withdraw my response.

Judging by early polls (and now that the whole story is out), McCain's suspension didn't help his campaign.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/am-trackers-suggest-poor-reaction-to.html

Also, it seems that Congress is getting to know their constituents feelings on the whole thing...and it's not pretty.

A good point was brought up last night on TV. The campaigns weren't stopped in 1864 or 1944, and the news at both of those times were much more dire than this.

I am under 45 years old,
I love the outdoors,
I hunt,
I am a Republican reformer,
I have taken on the Republican Party establishment,
I have many children,
I have a spot on the national ticket as vice president with less than two years
in the governor's office.

Who am I?







































Did you guess?





































I am Teddy Roosevelt in 1900

I've already seen that.

TR was already a player on the national scene in 1900...and nowadays he would be a Democrat.

Lightweight. Albatross. Soon to be noose around McCain's neck. Just watch the Couric interview.

Didn't see it. Was it all as bad as the excerpt I read (the Rick Davis part)?

Odds on the debate:
Obama vs McCain - 4:1 Obama's favor
Obama vs an empty lectern - 2:1 lectern's favor (you really look silly arguing with furniture)

McCain does not want to debate Obama.

Obama should play that up and call him chicken.

McCain can always take his private jet down on Friday afternoon and fly back to DC afterwards. I am sure that is what Obama is going to do.

But in reality, they should let Ralph Nader and Bob Barr into the debate.

What would the harm be in both candidates focussing on the financial mess for a couple days?



Seriously, what would be the benefit in both candidates focusing on the economy for a couple of days? Are either of them experts? Realistically, what can they contribute except two senate votes?

Yes, they should be as informed as is practical -- that's what they have advisors for. They should work the crisis into their campaigns. They should detail what they will do long term. But just what the hell can McCain and/or Obama accomplish immediately that isn't BETTER addressed by someone else?

McCain can always take his private jet down on Friday afternoon and fly back to DC.



"We both have big planes with our logos on them. If we are needed there we can both get there pretty quickly." -- Barack Obama, 9/24/08

Didn't see it. Was it all as bad as the excerpt I read (the Rick Davis part)?



<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cP12aNzocSc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cP12aNzocSc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

McCain does not want to debate Obama



Because of the bailout? McCain is not new to that issue. He's very familiar with it. Remember this: http://federalism.typepad.com/crime_federalism/2008/09/federal-housing.html With alot of detail, he's been predicting what's happening now for many years. Even before the 2005 bill.

Also, in light of Obama's refusal to debate with McCain ever since this summer, ( http://www.bigmouthfrog.org/2008/06/26/obama-the-audacity-to-avoid-town-hall-meetings/ ) what do you mean "McCain doesn't want to debate Obama?" Obama's been avoiding a debate with Obama like crazy for months.

And there goes Washington Mutual. The FDIC is going to be completely overwhelmed. Your money is not safe. The next president is screwed and of course, so are we...

And there goes Washington Mutual. The FDIC is going to be completely overwhelmed. Your money is not safe. The next president is screwed and of course, so are we...



Wow, and I read it first on the PDGA web site. I have 2 bank accounts for my store at WaMu and I also have my home mortgage with them.

I read that JP Morgan Chase is going to buy up there assets from the FDIC and the bank services should be operating tomorrow.

Good thing, I was going to the bank tomorrow.

It seems that 16.1 BILLION dollars were withdrawn in the last 10 days.

Those people were stupid.

It's interesting to think, concerning your words "the next president is screwed" that both of them MIGHT be screwed (as president) with major issues of their campaigns. With McCain, he might be screwed because he won't be able to give the tax breaks he wants to give in order to spur the economy. And Obama may be screwed because he may not be able to impliment his taxing of upper levels. Whatever is decided, maybe as soon as Thursday, will go a long way in determining just how "screwed" the next president is as well as all of us.

post drift to kurt...

The seriousness of the issue is just one among many reasons why I think it is a "benefit" that both candidates concentrate on this until a plan is in place. That is the biggest reason (regardless of whether it is the most convincing reason or not) why they both should "zone in" on this issue for now. Like I said, "among many reasons."

her two answers to questions just sured up my vote for a 3rd party candidate.

1st she is wrong in trying to take the fight to the terrorist.

2nd she is wrong about our presents in Iraq and Afganistan.

3rd she says she will only support the bailout if the McCain previsions are in the proposal.

In other words, everything she said here is against what I support.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dpu8AJRYXDQ&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dpu8AJRYXDQ&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

I post this one just for fun.

A video on her hometown church website shows Gov. Sarah Palin being blessed three years ago by a Kenyan pastor who prayed for her protection from 'witchcraft' as she prepared to seek higher office.........

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QIOD5X68lIs&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QIOD5X68lIs&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

It won't matter. Welcome to the Greater Depression.

And there goes Washington Mutual. The FDIC is going to be completely overwhelmed. Your money is not safe. The next president is screwed and of course, so are we...



Wow, and I read it first on the PDGA web site.



I do try to keep on top of things!

Just yesterday Obama said:

<font color="red"> "This is a moment of great uncertainty for America." "It's a financial crisis... ...the worst we've faced since the great deperession." "Every American has a stake in solving the crisis and saving our financial system from collapse... ...if we don't act soon people's jobs, people's savings, the economic security of millions of Americans will be put at risk." </font>

He says this and then thinks talking about foreign policy with a former POW is more important! "They'll call me if they need me" is NOT LEADERSHIP!

It comes down to a catch 22. The dems cannot reject a new deal now! They'll be seen as partisan scumbags if they do, no matter what they say they're rejecting it for. That song and dance is over! If they accept it, which I think they will, McCain gets the credit! Even if a deal isn't in place by Friday, McCain still holds the upper hand in a debate now. Just imagine if Obama is defending tax payer bailout and McCain has been fighting for two days to pay for it with corporate funds? Obama bit it man! "What's the benefit?" (sigh) We'll see soon enough.

If McCain doesn't show up, maybe Obama could debate Biden on Friday night in "ol-Miss." They can call it "The Great Staff Meeting Debate of '08!" :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

I'd rather he stayed away. I think it's interesting that the only two not prosecuted were American heroes.

75% of Americans want the debate to happen. (http://www.surveyusa.com/index.php/2008/09/25/americas-2nd-reaction-having-slept-on-it-friday-debate-should-be-held-on-friday/)

Foreign Policy is tied to Domestic Policy (and vice versa) and Jim Lehrer has already said that the candidates should be ready tonight to answer economic questions.

Kurt, I saw some of it last night. I could only watch it in bits because the pain was too much.

Two words: Train. Wreck.

Again, the McCain staff is trying to keep their candidate out of the White House. The Alaskan media says she's better than this. She looks like she's trying too hard to recall the talking points provided to her and that she's been told to stick to the talking points under the pain of death.

I think I'm beginning to feel sorry for her. She was forced into a position she wasn't ready for and now may end up being marginalized in the future -- setting the Republican party back with women. She should have been showcased like Obama at the 2004 DNC with the goal of making her a player in 2012.

/conspiracy theorist on

The House Republicans are holding up the deal with their Private Funding Plan (which McCain has neither approved or rejected). This might force McCain to no-show tonight and upsetting the whole debate schedule...possibly leading to the cancellation of the VP debate.

What if this is the goal of the House Republicans? As an effort to hang onto Congressional seats, would they work to keep the sinking ship off the air? It would be conceding the 2008 Presidential election in favor of the 2008/2010 Congressionals, allowing them to better hold onto seats this year and gain seats two years from now. A possible defense against the (long shot) chance of a dominant 60-40 Democratic-controlled Senate?

/conspiracy theorist off

Two words: Train. Wreck.





Two more: Broken English :eek:

The debate is on. McCain will show up...and no deal yet on bailout.

Kathleen Parker (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiMDhjYTU1NmI5Y2MwZjg2MWNiMWMyYTUxZDkwNTE=)

:o

Other Kathleen Parker gems:

"If you�re looking at places where the economy is doing poorly, the Democrats are in charge."

"The greatest achievement of feminism won�t be that a woman reached the vice presidency, but that a woman no longer needed feminists to get there." (why? because feminism isn't about the advancement of women, but LIBERAL WOMEN!)

"These bastards like Clark and Kerry and that incipient @$$, Dean, and Gephardt and Kucinich and that absolute mental midget Sharpton, race baiter, should all be lined up and shot." (she later claimed she said "slapped")

:o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

I'd rather he stayed away. I think it's interesting that the only two not prosecuted were American heroes.



Almost as interesting is that the lawyer for the Senate Ethics Committee ("most famous for defending a certain horny hick president") wanted McCain "removed from the investigation altogether."

About 20 years removed, he said this in 2008:

"First, I should tell your listeners I'm a registered Democrat, so I'm not on (McCain's) side of a lot of issues. But I investigated John McCain for a year and a half, at least, when I was special counsel to the Senate Ethics Committee in the Keating Five. ... And if there is one thing I am absolutely confident of, it is John McCain is an honest man. I recommended to the Senate Ethics Committee that he be cut out of the case, that there was no evidence against him."

But a "history buff" (your words) like yourself probably knew all of this already. ;) Just kidding.

BTW, your implication is that these two "American heros" had recieved preferential treatment correct? Personally, I can't see any other implication. Regardless as to whether they did or not (obviously it happens), I am curious to ask you, does the exceptional "heroism" that McCain undoubtedly possesses have any impact on your decision to support him or not? If not, why not? If so, to what level?

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YbVrCkviitk&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YbVrCkviitk&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

1st off - The polls I saw, a majority of Americans said the debate should NOT be called off.

2nd - The bad deal will be if congress passes this stupid bail out proposal.

3rd, I do not like Lindsey Graham however he is correct on the Acorn deal.

Debate wrap...

I missed the 1st half live, but caught it on CNN's replay.

Wow. Not alot of anything of substance.

The economy part was just ok. Didn't see why McCain brought up earmarks. I don't think that's something that matters to people right now. This crisis is much bigger than earmarks, much more involved in the foundations of finance. Plus picking on the pork spenders isn't going to gain him friends in Congress (with either party).

Both were good with foreign policy. Obama held his own better than I expected. I caught the Iranian "Republican Guard" gaffe by both in real time...but that's a nitpick really.

End result for me was a tie..and that favors the one leading. Both did well enough on substance, but it was mostly ground beef stuff with a little bit of ribeye here and there. But McCain was the old man lecturing Obama, while Obama was the one trying to build consensus. If he keeps being old and angry, I expect McCain to tell Obama to get off his lawn some time in the next 30-odd days.

Everyone is calling this an Obama win and the polls are showing the same but even more so. Pat Buchanan had good things to say about Obama, while Chris Matthews ripped Obama. Bizarro world.

(Does anyone know how CNN did their EKG thingy? That thing was interesting. It was quite clear that no one liked McCain's attacks.)

And afterwards on CNN: Biden plays the VP role beautifully while McCain's camp could only offer up a staffer.

"McCain is right about that!" "I agree with "John!" ;)

McCain took him down man! Oh my gosh! Obama looked like such a fool! "John" beat him like a rented mule! Holy cow! Obama isn't "naive" but "dangerous!" If Obama wins after that beating I am moving to Canada! lol, just kidding, it was pretty much a tie. :D

I'd give a paper thin edge to "Mcbush" though. Obama must'a been trying to "rope a dope" and it didn't work. McCain didn't get tired throwing punches and Obama's best punches connected, but didn't produce a KO. Same for "John!"

BTW, it reveals Obama's "politics as usual" when he tries to tie "John" to Bush now. There are so many things that those two are NOT in simpatico with lately that it's getting pretty blatant for the guy who is "so focussed on the future" to keep doing it. I know why he does, but it's more revealing of Obama then John's similarity to Bush "going forward."

Imagine the Media�s Reaction if a Republican Said Any One of These�

By Denise McNamara



1. �I�ve now been in 57 states, I think, one left to go.� - Barack Obama

2. �Ten thousand people died � an entire town destroyed.� - Barack Obama, following a tornado in Kansas. Actually, only 12 people died.

3. �The President of Canada�� - Barack Obama. Canada has a Prime Minister.

4. �My parents got together because of what happened in Selma.� - Barack Obama, marking the anniversary of the March 1965 �Bloody Sunday� in Selma, Alabama. Obama was born in 1961.

5. �Thank you Sioux City � I said it wrong, I�ve been in Iowa for too long.� - Barack Obama, while campaigning in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

6. �We only have a certain number of them, and if they are all in Iraq, then it�s harder for us to use them in Afghanistan.� - Barack Obama, decrying the lack of translators in Afghanistan. The problem is, Iraqis speak Arabic or Kurdish. The Afghanis speak Pashto, Farsi, or other non-Arabic languages.

7. �Iran doesn�t �pose a serious threat to us.� - Barack Obama, stating that �tiny countries� with small defense budgets cannot do us harm. The next day he stated, �I�ve made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave.�

8. "Stand up, Chuck, let 'em see ya." �-Joe Biden, to Missouri state Senator Chuck Graham, who is in a wheelchair, Columbia, Missouri, Sept. 12, 2008.

9. "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me." �-Joe Biden, speaking at a town hall meeting in Nashua, New Hampshire.

10. "When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened." �Joe Biden, apparently unaware that FDR wasn't president when the stock market crashed in 1929 and that televisions hadn't been invented yet.

11. "A man I'm proud to call my friend. A man who will be the next President of the United States � Barack America!" --Joe Biden, at his first campaign rally with Barack Obama.

Things I love about hardcore conservatives: They never change. They never move on. They all stick with the same talking points. And they wonder why they're now losing.

PS - She's got a nice blog, complete with the same crap about "mean" Katie Couric that other hardcore Republicans are throwing around.

Blah blah blah ..........the Nukes are coming and so is the end of the world as we know it. Just live in fear of the terrorism we breed. Stay in the box, watch CNN, and believe the troubles we face as a country our not of our own doing.
We created this mess by digging, drilling, pilfering, and bombing freely with no remorse all around the world. Cluster bombs dropped like candy in almost a dozen nations with no post war clean-up. We have become lead industrialists in world raped by American needs for everything material. Saudi Arabia and other oil giants got US pimped out like dopers.
The focus of the debate seemed to revolve around the same concept of economic stability coupled with the military presence needed to bolster our image as a nation. We are still living by 19th century philosophies in containing the threats that rival our materialistic demands. Sure terrorism sucks, but this country started terrorism in the 40's by sponsoring the first cell that was used against Hitler to repel the Nazis out of Iraq. Then we turned our backs just like Bin Laden in the Russian War, that first terrorist cell went unchecked for we had obtained out goals in Europe at the time. There were 600,000 armed militia in Iraq that dispersed with arms and left to breed while we were doing the Beach Blanket boogie here in the states. We are NOT the responsible nation that Jefferson dreamed and inspired for with our Declaration of Independence. We are the nation of 40% youth that cant read this crap we discuss nor write about it because we are like 80th in the world rank for literacy.
I would not expect the masses to anaylize and comprehend what is being written in the media and on the news outlets for its content may not accurately portray the truth in WHO WE ARE. Are we possibly the nation of the Military Industrial Complex that Roosevelt eluded to becoming if we were NOT cautious? Are we still ignorant enough to let a Pearl Harbor happen again, let alone another 9/11? I truly believe Afghanistan was indeed a necessary involvement to apprehend or eliminate the perpetraitors of 9/11 crimes.
Can anyone really justify what happened in the next 8 months when we were pulling our troops home then decided to go to IRAQ? It will cost this nation 5-7 trillion dollars in what we called "A WAR IN IRAQ " I believe in freedom and prosperity opportunties for all but to think of Iraq as some kind of big expensive "Habitat For Humanity" mission is absurd. I would bet my life that the Mujahadeen warriors of Afghanistan growing poppys for George Bushs drug trade have more WMDs than Iraq had when we invaded them. Go ahead and doubt me, i have resources up the kazoo. I would go as far as to say Bush should be investigated for his quiet conflict in Afghanistan and go deep as possible to reveal the truth. If i disappear soon this may be the reason.
Yeah, as far as the debate goes, i feel it is mostly a smoke screen covering the true needs of this nation. You got Obama agreeing with McCain at times and McCain looked us (the viewing audience) in the eyes for a total of maybe 8 seconds.
I would appreciate it if the leader of our nation can look us in the eyes if he desires our support. Makes me doubt if he is being himself or being programmed like previous. The other debate situation i dont care for are the lack of other parties views on the needs of our nation. Our democracy reminds me of SOUTH CENTRAL LOS ANGELES by where i live. It reminds me of Blood Vs. Crip gang wars where no one ever wins. Choose BLUE or RED because your family did and thats the ONLY choices. People seem to be afraid to come out on their own with alliances for fear of rejection. The ELECTORAL COLLEGE enough said..................pound sand.
Do your nation a favor, really, give up the bias repetitive quote mongering and go help a suffering neighbor read their ballot and give them a sense of encouragement towards making a wise decision for our nations future.
Enjoy the next debate y'all we need them.
Floyd

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUpg/SN62qnMFndI/AAAAAAAAAJk/s2JNttPw0ys/S1600-R/0927_bigmap.png

Prediction site map as of today, this based on pre-debate state-by-state polls. Yes, that's Virginia safely blue and Florida leaning. WTF?

538.com (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com)

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." (From Billy Madison)

Ps. I did "help my neighbor" today by giving him the extra "McCain/Palin" yard sign I picked up from headquarters yesterday. :p

Imagine the Media�s Reaction if a Republican Said Any One of These�

By Denise McNamara



1. �I�ve now been in 57 states, I think, one left to go.� - Barack Obama

2. �Ten thousand people died � an entire town destroyed.� - Barack Obama, following a tornado in Kansas. Actually, only 12 people died.

3. �The President of Canada�� - Barack Obama. Canada has a Prime Minister.

4. �My parents got together because of what happened in Selma.� - Barack Obama, marking the anniversary of the March 1965 �Bloody Sunday� in Selma, Alabama. Obama was born in 1961.

5. �Thank you Sioux City � I said it wrong, I�ve been in Iowa for too long.� - Barack Obama, while campaigning in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

6. �We only have a certain number of them, and if they are all in Iraq, then it�s harder for us to use them in Afghanistan.� - Barack Obama, decrying the lack of translators in Afghanistan. The problem is, Iraqis speak Arabic or Kurdish. The Afghanis speak Pashto, Farsi, or other non-Arabic languages.

7. �Iran doesn�t �pose a serious threat to us.� - Barack Obama, stating that �tiny countries� with small defense budgets cannot do us harm. The next day he stated, �I�ve made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave.�

8. "Stand up, Chuck, let 'em see ya." �-Joe Biden, to Missouri state Senator Chuck Graham, who is in a wheelchair, Columbia, Missouri, Sept. 12, 2008.

9. "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me." �-Joe Biden, speaking at a town hall meeting in Nashua, New Hampshire.

10. "When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened." �Joe Biden, apparently unaware that FDR wasn't president when the stock market crashed in 1929 and that televisions hadn't been invented yet.

11. "A man I'm proud to call my friend. A man who will be the next President of the United States � Barack America!" --Joe Biden, at his first campaign rally with Barack Obama.




#11, Even though he said this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpjAs4vtc1w ...and they've ignored it for the most part. So to answer your question, the media reaction would be more of the same. Pathetically biased.

Subject : The Next President

Play Towin please stick to the subject matter somewhat and try to learn from all encounters for it could enrich your life some. I have also read what i would consider idiotic statements here and there, in these ROOMS! I just dont degrade folks any.
I enjoy the PIZZAGODs posts for they are diverse unlike yourself for being such a creative based fellow. At least allow the readers a chance to gather and form their own opinions before discounting their ability to learn. People dont get dumber its not really possible so dont try and give hope for that cant happen.
My words were just there after the debate had occurred to express that when choosing "THE Next President" its not all as simple as the debaters make it appear. There go many other opinions that may not fit along the lines of your thinking but they come out anyway. Get used to it.
So you know i am a registered Republican and my sign is used to pick up lawn clippings. Its good to recycle!
Thanks for the "God have mercy on my Soul" bit. Thats also another thread topic that isnt merited on this page.
I love you just the way you are, bless.
Floyd

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/F-nNIEduEOw&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/F-nNIEduEOw&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

Class. Maybe someday over a slice of pizza we can talk.
:cool:

1st questions on the Economy, they got it both wrong.

let me post a little article written by a former Investment Banker.


The Economic Crisis: We Were Warned!

by Jack Anderson, GOP Precinct 131 Chair, Frisco Area Victory Chair

and a former investment banker who is now a small business owner.



REPUBLICANS ISSUED WARNING YEARS AGO



We were warned. Several times, in fact. The Bush Administration gave us the first warning 6 years ago. The President�s 2002 budget request declared that, �Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are a potential problem because of the size of either one of them and that if either failed it could cause strong repercussions in financial markets.�



HOW DID WE GET INTO THIS SITUATION?



So how did buying a house create the financial quagmire from Main St. to Wall St. to the U.S. Government and back to Main St. in the form of a bailout?

Answer: Government intervention in the free market process.



When people purchase homes through loans, the mortgage typically does not stay with the lending institution. It is then sold �upstream� to an investment bank who securitizes the mortgage and bundles it with hundreds of other mortgages to be re-sold in the secondary markets to investment banks and countless financial entities that purchase these Mortgage Backed Securities as investments in their portfolios. Because all of these securities were backed by the �full faith and credit� of the U.S Government, buyers never seriously considered the credit and collateral of the underlying mortgages.



Wall Street, in their innovative ways, also continued to create new, and many times, riskier investments from these securities. But one thing never changes: Every time a home owner defaults on paying his loan, it undermines the quality of the security that was purchased.



WHAT PART DO FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC PLAY IN THE CRISIS?



Freddie and Fannie were a problem as early as 2002 because the Clinton Administration and the Democrats in Congress wanted everyone in America to have a home regardless of income and credit. Freddie Mac (Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation) and Fannie Mae (Federal National Mortgage Association) are Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSE�s). They are backed by the federal government to buy mortgage loans from the lenders, so lenders can in turn go create more loans.



In a September 30, 1999 New York Times article written by Steven Holmes, it was reported that, �In a move that could help increase home owner ship rates, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lender. � Fannie Mae, the nation�s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people.� The article continued, �Fannie Mae was encouraged to help lending institutions make more loans to so-called sub prime borrowers�� In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk..�



This new program was intentionally geared toward people whose incomes and credit ratings were not sufficient to qualify for conventional loans. Many of these mortgages had what was called a �teaser rate� which initiated as a very low rate, later increased to a higher rate. People who could not qualify for conventional loans in the first place suddenly were saddled with even higher payments. Why did everyone think this would work? The housing market bubble. But, everything in life goes in cycles, especially real estate. So home values in various housing markets around the country started declining and people couldn�t pay their mortgages, making the underlying mortgages in those securities, which Wall Street. and the investment community buys, worth less every day. But, this new lending criteria continued.



ANOTHER REPUBLICAN WARNING IS IGNORED!



In addition to the warning in April 2002, the White House upgraded its warning in 2003 to �a systemic risk that could spread beyond just the housing sector.� In the Fall of 2003, the White House was pushing Congress hard for a new regulatory agency to oversee both Freddie and Fannie when, during the House Financial Services Committee of September 10, 2003, then Treasury Secretary John Snow said that ��we need to create a strong world class regulatory agency to oversee the safety and soundness �� of Fannie and Freddie.



In that same hearing, Secretary Snow received tremendous pushback from then ranking House Financial Services Committee member and now Chairman Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) who said, �Freddie &amp;Fannie are not in a crisis�. Instead, Frank said the Federal Government should do more to encourage Freddie and Fannie to increase efforts to get low income families into homes. �The more people, in my judgment, exaggerate a threat of safety and soundness, the more people conjure the possibility of serious financial losses, which I do not see, � Frank said. The legislation to create a regulatory body was blocked on a party line vote with all Democrats voting against it.





REPUBLICAN PROPOSE STRONGER REGULATIONS; DEMOCRATS KILL THE PROPOSAL



The Republicans again tried to be pro-active in this area in 2005, when the Senate Banking Committee Chaired by Richard Shelby (R-AL) tried to pass new strong regulations which would have prevented Freddie and Fannie from buying the bad loans. It would have created a new regulator for Freddie and Fannie with the power that a bank regulator has which safeguards everything a bank had in it loan portfolio. All of the Republicans voted for it all and all of the Democrats voted against , including the now-Chairman of the Committee, Chris Dodd (D-CN). Democrats voted against stronger regulations even after Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan warned Senators that Freddie and Fannie ��are playing with fire.� On April 6, 2005 at the Committee hearing, Greenspan cautioned, �We increase the possibility of insolvency and crisis��Without restrictions on the size of (Freddie and Fannie), we put at risk our ability to preserve safe and sound financial markets in the U.S.�. This prediction unfortunately is being shown to be correct. But because the Democrats voted to block, those new regulations never got to be considered by the full Senate and died.



Trying once again trying to avert a possible crisis and co-sponsoring legislation pushing for regulation, reform minded Senator John McCain (R-AZ), said in a speech on the Senate floor on May 25, 2006, � For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Freddie and Fannie �� and the sheer magnitude of these companies ...the GSE�s need to be reformed without delay.� The bill made it out of the Senate Banking Committee with a party line vote, all the Democrats voting against it, but knowing they would not have enough votes for passage, Senate Republicans could not bring it up on the Senate floor.



WHY HAVEN�T WE HEARD THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS?



Because, according to Brent Bozell of Media Research Center, the mainstream news media liked the concept of government-sponsored entities and bureaucracy. �It is a Holy Grail issue with liberals and media because they wanted people who couldn�t afford homes to have one. So the media looked the other way as the house of cards collapsed. Barney Frank prevented the solution from happening for years.�



The solution is being worked currently by the very people who caused it and they are suggesting a taxpayer bailout trying to cover their own mistakes and trying to make everyone think they have it handled. Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) said last week, �We don�t know what to do.� So the only solution they have is to, once again, make the taxpayers pay for it.



We should be talking about a workout not a bailout. There are several people with good ideas, but they are not chairing these committees that are meeting. And to blame this on the Republicans, as many partisans are attempting to do, is both incorrect and hypocritical. Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CN) said just today (September 25, 2008) that this crisis was avoidable. And he�s absolutely right. Problem is, Sen. Dodd was one of those who chose NOT to avoid it.




So there you go, as I have stated before, it was not government deregulation that caused this situation, it was government programs to begin with.

Even when the Republicans tried to do something about it in 2005, the Democrats killed it. Now the Democrats are trying to blame Bush.

the answer???

Get the government out of the way, let the banks sell off there bad debt for what the market will bear. The FDIC just did that with WaMu, selling them for 1.9 Billion to JP Morgan Chase. (Ironically, the bank that gave me the loan for my store with just my signature, and when I paid them off, I moved my main account over to WaMu)

yes, a lot of banks will fail, but most will not. It will hurt for the next year, but will recover MUCH faster (according to economist) than the bailout will. The bailout will not burst the bubble, but is an attempt to keep it in place.

See the Political Economics thread for more information on this subject. (especially the Peter Schiff video I posted earlier today)

Class. Maybe someday over a slice of pizza we can talk.
:cool:



I enjoy a good debate and always listen to all points of view. (even when I disagree with them)

Back to watching the debate :D

McCain owns the Earmark question. His answer was dead on.

however Obama and McCain really agree on this issue, McCain just answers the questions better.

Subject : The Next President

Play Towin please stick to the subject matter somewhat and try to learn from all encounters for it could enrich your life some. I have also read what i would consider idiotic statements here and there, in these ROOMS! I just dont degrade folks any.
I enjoy the PIZZAGODs posts for they are diverse unlike yourself for being such a creative based fellow. At least allow the readers a chance to gather and form their own opinions before discounting their ability to learn. People dont get dumber its not really possible so dont try and give hope for that cant happen.
My words were just there after the debate had occurred to express that when choosing "THE Next President" its not all as simple as the debaters make it appear. There go many other opinions that may not fit along the lines of your thinking but they come out anyway. Get used to it.
So you know i am a registered Republican and my sign is used to pick up lawn clippings. Its good to recycle!
Thanks for the "God have mercy on my Soul" bit. Thats also another thread topic that isnt merited on this page.
I love you just the way you are, bless.
Floyd



"Lighten up Francis," it's a line from a movie.

http://img5.glowfoto.com/images/2008/09/27-1846441050T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=27-184644L&amp;y=2008&amp;m=09&amp;t=jpg&amp;rand=1050&amp;srv=img5)

On Business Tax, McCain is right and Obama is VERY wrong.

the high business taxes IS the reason a lot of jobs are moving overseas. You try to raise taxes on those companies and they will just move there whole operations overseas. This is happening right now because the USA has the HIGHEST Corporate Tax rate in the world.

Obama is right about loopholes though, but he should say we will close the loopholes and lower there overall tax burden to make it easier.

I was tripping out when I heard McCain said that the Ireland tax rate for businesses was 11%. One website say's it's actually 12.5%, but also states that some businesses (financial and software businesses), for now, pay 10% in Dublin. I don't if his number is an average or just not accurate.

Pizza, McCain said we pay the 2nd highest, are we really #1 in business taxes "in the world?" You just brought it up, and being so "diverse" in your posts, I thought you might know. :D

Obama, "we have to be energy independent" (just like McCain)

"We have to invest in alternative energy" - with what and how?? Usually this is done by offering Tax incentives commonly known as LOOPHOLES to companies. It can also include government grants to companies and usually Universities. However, who profits from these, those companies and Universities that got the free money.

McCain - "we have to cut spending" 100% correct.

Right answer on ending Ethanol subsides.

"We have to scrub every agency of Government" &lt;--- dead on

U.S. States Lead the World in High Corporate Taxes (http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/22917.html)

Iraq - McCain, don't like his attitude of "Victory and Honor" and he does not talk about how we have a plan in place to lesson our forces.

Obama, was right about the war to begin with, this is true. I also like how he tied it into bin Laden. He has the better answer.

McCain now mentioned how the next president will be pulling troops out. His rebuttal was much better than his original answer.

Obama - At least acknowledged the surge worked, but keeps harping on old news.

McCain just lost his argument in his next rebuttal.

If the majority of military soldiers wanted to stay the course, then why does Obama get more than double the donations from active duty military?????

Why has McCain STILL not raised more money from active duty military than Ron Paul who has not raised any money sense June???? (Obama passed Ron Paul up in the last quarter)

At the end of 2007 Ron Paul had raised MORE money than EVERY other candidate COMBINED in military donations.

yes, there are active and vets who support the Iraq war, but it is NOT the majority.

If Congress (and the Democrats) wanted to end this war, they would do what Congress did in the 70's to get us out of Vietnam. Quit funding the effort and it will force the administration to pull out.

Petraeus on Obama's 16 month plan.

DAVID PETRAEUS: It depends on the conditions; depends on the mission set. It depends on the enemy. The enemy does get a vote and is sometimes an independent variable. Lots of different factors, I think, that would be tied up in that and the dialogue on that, and the amount of risk. Because it eventually comes down to how much risk various options entail. That's the kind of discussion I think that is very important as we do look to the future. Video (http://newsbusters.org/static/2008/07/2008-07-18MSNBCHBPetraeus.wmv)



to me, this is a mute point because the Iraqi government wants us out as soon as possible. We have sort of agreed to 2011, but I kind of agree with Obama, we should be able to do it faster.

Afghanistan

Obama had a good answer on sending more troops in and what he would do. I sort of agree with it.

McCain talks about how we abandoned the freedom fighters that ousted Russia, the funny thing about this is that it was not until recently that the CIA admitted that we even helped them. Sure everyone was talking about it, however the "official" government line was we didn't.

Pakistan

McCain said he would not cut off aid (free money) to Pakistan. I totally disagree with aid to ANY country of Tax dollars. This is a waist of Taxpayers money. (we have given them more than 12 BILLION last I heard sense 9/11)

Obama talked about attacks inside of Pakistan, McCain had just bashed Obama for this, however as we speak, we have been involved in several skirmishes with Pakistan troops in just the last 2 weeks. (I guess they didn't get that memo)

Boy, McCain sounds like he is going to keep fighting in Iraq because we left Vietnam and let them loose.

Cool, they both have bracelets :D

Iran

Don't get me started on this one.

Both Russia and China have make trade agreements with Iran. Only a blockade would do anything to Iran. And if we did that, Iran may get the support of China and Russia.

Obama has a very good point on the fact that Iran is stronger now with the changes in Iraq.

He is flat out wrong about Iran supporting Hamas and Hezbollah. Hamas are Suni's, they do NOT get along with Shi'as. Iran is Shi'a and does support Hezbollah. Iraq use to support Hamas, but that funding has mostly switched over to Saudi Arabia.

it is our government that keep saying that Hamas is supported by Iran. This is not true.

Obama has much better answers on talking with other heads of state to try to avoid conflicts.

Russia

McCain is wrong about the conflict and showed it. South Ossetia has considered itself independent for 15 years.

Obama is just as much of a Neo-Con on this subject and admits to it.

I can't tell the difference between what they say on Russia. I tend to disagree with both of them on this subject.

But again, Obama does a better job talking about it.

9/11 attack.

McCain mentions the recommendations of 9/11 commission report. I guess he didn't read the part that talks about Blow Back and how our military activity in the Middle East was a large part of why we were attacked. It is funny how Republicans (Neo-Con Republicans) refuse to acknowledge this.

Obama blows McCains answer out of the water. I tend to agree with Obama more on this one subject. However his policies are not different than McCains except in Iraq.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUpg/SN62qnMFndI/AAAAAAAAAJk/s2JNttPw0ys/S1600-R/0927_bigmap.png

Prediction site map as of today, this based on pre-debate state-by-state polls. Yes, that's Virginia safely blue and Florida leaning. WTF?

538.com (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com)



Sept. 17, 2000

http://img3.glowfoto.com/images/2008/09/27-2207466954T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=27-220746L&amp;y=2008&amp;m=09&amp;t=jpg&amp;rand=6954&amp;srv=img3)

If anyone watches this video and can tell me how it's McCains fault and how Obama is better equiped to fix it, please enlighten me? You may need to keep your finger on the pause button cuz it goes fast:

http://mcnorman.wordpress.com/2008/09/26/the-maranada-and-how-it-was-made-do-not-repeat-history/

17 times!

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/bush-called-for-reform-of-fannie-mae.html

Updated today:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ov-pT1x-W8Y/SOOP3J14VwI/AAAAAAAACak/oeBLhGKNnJ8/S1600-R/1001_bigmap.png

538 uses state polling numbers. They give a better view of the EV numbers than the national trackers.


To discuss David's chart:
By this time in 2000, Bush had caught Gore. And by next week, Bush was leading Gore by 8.Link (http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/10/08/tracking.poll/index.html)

So, what does 2000 have to do with 2008? Absolutely nothing.

34 days left. Anything is still possible, but each day that passes with Obama in the lead lowers McCain's chances.

So, what does 2000 have to do with 2008? Absolutely nothing. ...Anything is still possible...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32845-2005Apr6?language=printer

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30436-2004Dec27.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs



This is a good video and those were two good articles.

Thanks for the articles. (I have been using the video for the past 2 days and wanted to post it myself)

the last 2 days drove me crazy, no PDGA.com and all the stuff going on.

Yes, I called my congressman and he did voted against the bailout, today I will be calling and faxing my 2 state senators because they have a vote tonight. (this plan is just as bad because it has tons of pork added to it)

I am hearing that the majority of phone calls are ignored or sent through a lot of mumbo jumbo phone tree "stuff" and then dead ends....

It's time for McCain/Palin to "name names." If they don't, they will not win. Most Americans are not aware of that information. It's just not reported on in most newscasts. And when it is, it's glossed over and forgotten as quickly as Biden goes from one gaffe to another.

The debate is less than twenty minutes away from where I live but I am not going because I can't stand how weak McCain has been. He has really got to start getting tough. His brand of "bipartisanship" and "playing it nice" is pi$$ing off the base big time. He is in a fight against socialism and liberal over-reaching. It's not hard to be "bipartisan," in fact it's the easiest, most gutless thing in the world. Just compromise your core beliefs. It's much harder to stand up for your beliefs no matter what they are. The two times McCains numbers spiked were when he spoke like a true conservative during the "Saddleback Forum" and when he picked Palin. And what happened? He was loved! I can't believe he doesn't recognize that. I really hope Palin is carrying the goomba's tonight cuz McCain surely isn't lately.

McCain pulling campaign out of Michigan. So much for that toss-up state.

Only to a hardline fringer would bipartisanship be a bad word.

And McCain never has been a true conservative. If he was, he wouldn't have had to choose Palin to recapture the base.

So true Tony, that is why I am not supporting him.

Every issue I feel strongly about, he does not support.

Case in point, the bailout bill he signed for yesterday. (agreeing with Obama BTW) 90% of the calls/emails/faxes they are getting are against the bill, yet they still voted for it.

Why????


Because most people will forget about it in November.

ug, I think I am going to throw up. These poor kids.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LeaXjNbyn1Q&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LeaXjNbyn1Q&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

Really, I don't like it when people use kids to sell anything. Oh some are cute, but a kid does not have an opinion. They reflect on what there parents think. Call it brainwashing if you want.

My son is 13 (nearly 14) he does not have an opinion on most subjects. I don't want to push he one way or the other, I actually try to teach him to look at both sides and decide for himself.

Who said he ever was a true conservative? That's the reason why me and millions of conservatives didn't want him to be the Rep candidate. But now he is and the alternative would be disasterous for USA. I simply pointed out that when he acted like one, two times (the only two times) his numbers spiked. He needs to recognize that. I heard he's finally gotten a fighting spirit started today. He needs to keep that up. Some "conservative viagra" is the prescription for what's hurting him.

Bipartisanship is the most stupid, gutless thing you could ever do if it means giving up on your core values. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough for you to get that. And when it means you'll pi$$ off your base, it's political suicide.

Bidens plan tonight = Don't be Biden!

Palin's plan tonight = Be yourself!

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?print=yes&id=28830

A few issue of why I can't vote for McCain

#1 He co-sponsored Amnesty for illegal aliens. (Obama supports too)

#2 He supports the war in Iraq and refuses to bring them home until they win, no matter if that takes 100 years.

#3 He is one of the people who think we need to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. This is a catch 22 when you realize they attack us here, BECAUSE we are over there. (Obama supports too)

#4 He Co-sponsored legislation that refrains my rights to support who I want for president. (McCain-Fiengold)

#5 He supports and at one time was a Co-Sponsor of the Lieberman-Warner Bill. (Obama supports too)

#6 He vote Aye on the "CRAP" bill last night. (Obama supports too)

The few reasons I could support McCain

#1 He is against any torture, including Water boarding (also an Obama stance)

#2 He supports Tax cuts (however he has not always done this) (Obama has tax cuts too)

#3 Supports changing the Earmarks on bills (yet he just signed one laden with it) (Obama says the same thing)

That is all I can come up with off the top of my head.

BTW, on the subject I just mentioned

#1 Bob Barr is against Amnesty
#2 Bob Barr says it is time to bring the troops home and let Iraqi's rule Iraq
#3 Bob Barr has lived in the Middle East (Iran to be exact) and says we need to limit our involvement in there politics.
#4 Bob Barr is against McCain-Fiengold
#5 Bob Barr is against Lieberman-Warner
#6 Bob Barr is currently talking about how this bailout is a HUGE mistake.
#1 Bob Barr has stated we should not torture.
#2 Bob Barr is for limited government and no taxes (end the IRS)
#3 Bob Barr has also spoken out about the bad earmark system in place right now.

Another boring result. I don't think Biden won by as much as the insta-polls said. Those are probably another indication that more Democrats are watching these debates than Republicans.

Palin looked like the newcomer. Initially nervous, then settled down but still a little rushed. Biden barely looked like he had a pulse, but then livened up. (His smile reminded me of Tony Robbins for some reason -- stop blinding me with your teeth!)

She overplayed the happy-to-be-here attitude. Indy voters don't like someone who happily talks about that she's only been doing this for 5 weeks. And she said maverick so many times that you'd need 2 bottles of Jack Daniel's if you were playing a catchphrase drinking game. Still, she performed as I expected...and more like she did in Alaska. The one big mistake was at the end with the expansion of VP power. Conservative folks like Bryan won't like that, and neither will Indys and Democrats given the current VP's powertrip. And I think she got ambushed by Biden's own story about being a single father. That was the best trump card I've seen so far.

Biden was a toned down Biden. He nailed McCain to Bush and, as expected, dominated on foreign policy. He performed like a guy who's been there, done that, and wants to tell you about it. He seemed ready for anything she said, and he stuck to the gameplan. He got a little testy about her throwing out maverick too much, but perfectly countered that claim with examples on all the major issues. Biden also connected with middle class America by mentioning his wealth is tied to his home.

End result. Biden wins. Palin comforts the base and probably saves her future political career. No real effect to the election. And the beat goes on.

Odd question / reaction moment of the night:

Palin's answer on the *** rights question. There was no way she could answer that question and win. I don't think her answer is sitting well with her base, and I expect her to clarify it.

I expect her to clarify it.



You betcha I'll clarify it...... in Alaska, we sat at the kitchen table, we figured out how to solve problems......then at the hockey practice, we knew that Washington, with all those slick, two forked tounged taxers would just give speeches......we solved that also.

(I'm sure the accent is ingrained in your head) ;)

My boss (from NYC) does a better Palin vocal impression than Tina Fey. It's quite amusing and annoying all in one.

like Biden's comment on how people should go to with him to the Home Depot where he spends a lot of time. :confused:

BS BS BS BS BS!

And how same sex couples should have eqaul access to life insurance. :confused: That should have been health insurance. :p

I didn't get to listen to the whole debate (I was at work) but I had my computer on C-Span2 and caught about 1/2 of it.

I was correct in that our biggest rush of the night was just before 8pm when the debate started.

Biden sounded like a politician which turned me off of course. I did hear him talk about being a single father, I don't think stuff like that belongs in the debate though (I didn't hear the question that brought it up though)

Palin sounded very rehearsed. There were a few times I felt she was trying to remember what to say, then suddenly (as if a tape player was turned on) went into a good speech. She also brought her personal life in mentioning her son in Iraq and Trig. I didn't much care for that.

I missed her answer on the VP thing. I heard Bidens and hope he follows his answer when he is elected.

For the Republican base, I think Palin did fine. If she had fallen flat on her face (which a lot of people expected) it would have been the end of the race.

However, if she had spoken to the conservative base and taken a little more conservative tone, she might have turned things around. I don't think this helped or hurt the McCain campaign.

I am back to thinking Obama is going to win in a landslide. Nearly every Republican I know is fighting against the "Crap" bill, McCain supports it. Nearly every Republican I know is fighting Illegal Immigration, McCain is NOT fighting it. This is going to be more lopsided than 2006, the Democrats are going to take over the Senate and have even more power in the house.

god help us

FactChecking Biden-Palin Debate (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html)

hey, with all the news about the Senate passing the "CRAP" bill and the VP Debate, did anyone notice that the Dow Jones average DROPPED 348 points??????

It dropped AFTER the Senate passes the "CRAP" Sandwich bill????

(note, the DJ avg is up 100 as of right now)

On the good news front
Futures Market Oil $91.75 Gasoline $2.193

That means gas below $3 per gallon in a few weeks :D

FactChecking Biden-Palin Debate (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html)



I love that site. It keeps everyone honest. McCain this week attacked the site though -- no surprise there.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PQ2J2Bf5nHc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PQ2J2Bf5nHc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

For some reason, this will not embed

VP Debate 10/4/08 (http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/vp-debate-open-palin-biden/727421/)

Candidate Calculator (http://www.vajoe.com/candidate_calculator.html)

Interesting
80.56% Chuck Baldwin
63.89% Bob Barr
52.78% John McCain
27.78% Ralph Nader
25.00% Cynthia McKinney
13.89% Barak Obama

Oddly enough,
66.67% Barak Obama
66.67% John McCain

Doesn't seem to work very well with everything set to medium importance.

(with everything set to medium importance)

Ralph Nader (Independant)
88.89% match

Your Other Top Matches
Barack Obama (Democrat) - 77.78%
Cynthia McKinney (Green Party) - 77.78%



Middle of the Pack
Bob Barr (Libertarian) - 50.00%
Chuck Baldwin (Constitution) - 33.33%



Bottom of the Barrel
John McCain (Republican) - 11.11%

Oddly enough,
66.67% Barak Obama
66.67% John McCain

Doesn't seem to work very well with everything set to medium importance.



That is because they are pretty close together on a lot of subjects.

About the only thing I agree with Barak Obama is getting out if Iraq.

McCain 68% (a bit high IMO)

Obamination 45% (off the charts high IMO)

Legislating from the bench would be a good issue to add to the "do you support" list.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/42077/original.jpg

Ok...Palin brings up Ayers, Obama brings up Keating (but not yet Todd Palin's AIP and it's founder who makes Rev. Wright look like Patrick Henry).

Palin wants to bring up Wright (who is off-limits per McCain himself), which means her church is now fair game (as is even more so the above mentioned AIP).


Meanwhile the Dow is still dropping (hovering just above 9800 as I type this).


"It's a dangerous road, but we have no choice," a top McCain strategist told the Daily News. "If we keep talking about the economic crisis, we're going to lose."




McCain news conference today has someone claiming that the Keating investigation was a smear job against McCain.

Latest VA state polling shows Obama up +10 &amp; +12, PA tracking at +11 Obama.

This election may be over except for the shouting.

This election for President was over for me on March 4th.

I stated a long time ago that Obama would be the next president. It would take Hillary to get me to vote for McCain.
__________________________________________

Mr Rose, you didn't mention Chuck Baldwin or Bob Barr or even Ralph Nader or that Green lady :D

Your Top Match
John McCain
72.73% match

You are number 104,059 to use the Candidate Calculator.

Your Other Top Matches
Chuck Baldwin (Constitution) - 54.55%
Bob Barr (Libertarian) - 54.55%

Middle of the Pack
Barack Obama (Democrat) - 40.91%
Cynthia McKinney (Green Party) - 22.73%

Bottom of the Barrel
Ralph Nader (Independant) - 13.64%

I am pretty sure I put the same answers in and McCain is higher and obama is lower than when I did this the other day. Maybe I clicked something different but don't know which one. I don't remember the "death penalty" question. Maybe that has something to do with the dif numbers today.

I don't think voting third party is a waisted vote. I respect and admire third party voters so long as they are doing it for the right reasons. I understand the idea of laying groundwork for the future of third parties. I like Baldwin alot, in fact, from what little I know about him, I'd rather have him than McCain. I just don't believe voting for a third party this time is wise. You can support them in many other ways than your vote. Someone could easily say "well you're just voting for the lesser of two (or more) evils!" My answer to that is "yup, so are you!" We are ALL flawed humans. If we weren't, aside from having a perfect pdga rating, we could also look forward to Bill Maher making a documentary about us!

But for me, in this particular race, I agree with McCain more than I disagree with McCain, and I disagree with Obama WAY MORE than that fun "political calculator" would indicate (very cool site btw, thanks for posting it). I would rather hold my nose and vote for McCain then to throw away any chance I have (however small it is) to keep Obama out. I don't question McCains patriotism or his stance on most ethical issues. Obama? Forget about it! He is further left than Hillary!!!

America, for all it's problems, has fought too hard for far too long to get where we are. For those who can't fill in that sentence with the possitive aspects of America and understand that they outweigh the faults, then I pity you most of all. You don't understand how far we've come as a nation in such a short time in history. You don't understand the sacrifices that have made it possible. Those people may have clever soundbites that ridicule by pointing out the bad, but they don't understand what they truly have as an American or how it was given to them. I know Amercian flag waiving is often ridiculed on this thread by simply pointing to failures and I don't care. It's because of American exceptionalism that we have the freedom to twist the underlying truth and say "we suck!" Many people just don't understand how unique, how giving, how precious America is. I know it has it's faults, spare me! It's not hard to see. Any pessimist can point out it's failures and atrocities. But can they point to the good, articulate what makes it good and recognize which is more prevalent?

Sorry to go off Za, that had nothing to do with you, I am just sick of people not recognizing how radical Obama is and the damage he could do to America (not to imply you feel the same at all). That, and my Seahawks suck! grrr!

thats a cool site...

Ralph Nader (Independant)
80.60% match

Barack Obama (Democrat) - 67.16%
Cynthia McKinney (Green Party) - 62.69%

Bob Barr (Libertarian) - 44.78%
Chuck Baldwin (Constitution) - 43.28%

Bottom of the Barrel
John McCain (Republican) - 34.33% <--thats seems WAY too high.

13.89% Barak Obama



This is why I am still up in the air.

I disagree with nearly everything Obama stands for. I listen to his speeches and really get sick too my stomach.

I think Bob Barr is the most qualified and understand politics more than Chuck Baldwin. That had Chuck is more fringe than even me. Then there is the preacher thing. I believe that religion and politics don't mix.

Disagree with John McCain on some policies that I can't just look past. Even though know Obama would be much worse.

To tell the truth, if McCain falls behind or is even close in Texas, I might just vote for him.

Big John Cornyn lost my vote last Wednesday night.

Kenny Marchant got my vote on Friday.

Steve Harris already has my vote for State Rep, I have met and talked with him a couple of times now.

That is the best thing about being involved, you get chances to meet your elected representatives.

I have not researched any other race yet.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/42077/original.jpg



Looks like she's ready to be the Grand Poobah! :D

too bad the Boston Tea Party is not on the ballot in Texas.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HNG0iOUtAQU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HNG0iOUtAQU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

Dick Morris described the Ayers alliance with Obama in a way I've never heard before tonight. I can't find it posted anywhere yet, but man, he spelled it out.

Moron.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810070032
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/05/fact-check-is-obama-palling-around-with-terrorists/
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1810338,00.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/18/nation/na-radicals18
http://ccsr.uchicago.edu/content/publications.php?pub_id=60

Dick Morris described the Ayers alliance with Obama in a way I've never heard before tonight. I can't find it posted anywhere yet, but man, he spelled it out.




And he is a former Mr. Clinton advisor.

FactCheck.org on Obama/Ayers (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html)

FactCheck.org on Obama/Ayers (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html)




The thing I don't like about Obama is just how far left he is in his voting record and in the Primaries and how he tries to come across as one who will work across the isle.

I am not an avid McCain supporter either and I feel he should have picke good ole Newt Gingrich but at least we all know he is not an ultraconservative and has woked with those from the democratic party many times (usually .pissing his people off)

Obama is trying to ride out the campaing with the economy at the fore-front yet he along with many within the democratic party voting against looking into Fannie/Freddy and he has taken in more money from them than everyone else in tyhe senate except the Pedophile Barney Frank who has been in thier pocket for years.

I feel sorry for many people who consider themselves liberal but feel betrayed when they see thier cause being headed by such nutjobs as Nancy Pelosy. Even republicans are somewhat betrayed in that most in the house and senate regardless of party lean farther left than thier constituents.

I seriously think they need to investigate Mr. Frank who is head of the banking committee and his dealings with Mac/Mae.

Of the money our Federal government spends only 30% is spent on programs that congress has power over and the other 70% is against the powers given to them under the consittution.

Anyone know how much a kid's "free lunch" costs?




$70 per lunch



We all know that our govt is inefficient but that is actually how many of those who wrote the constitution wanted so that they could not take on powers in which they were not given. So why in the world do we want them to hanndle Healthcare and social security?

I say let the feds do what they have the power to do and leave the rest to the states.



Oh and someone please replace Pelosy and I will think higher of the Donkey's.

Matt is getting it :D

Boy this server move is driving me crazy. I would have had 100's of posts this week.

To me, as soon as McCain voted for the "Already" failed bailout, Obama was the winner of this election.


I got great email from a Republican today that stated all the reasons to vote against Obama. Here is one of there reasons.


First bill he signed that was ever passed was campaign finance reform



Ah, that was the McCain legislation?? :D

Sorry, you can't use that if you support McCain.

Does anyone actually care why she fired this guy????
the guy fired was offered another job and refused. He did not make a big deal out of this, others did.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SY1TaveyBXI&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SY1TaveyBXI&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ivmL-lXNy64&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ivmL-lXNy64&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

FactCheck.org on Obama/Ayers (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html)




The thing I don't like about Obama is just how far left he is in his voting record and in the Primaries and how he tries to come across as one who will work across the isle.

I am not an avid McCain supporter either and I feel he should have picke good ole Newt Gingrich but at least we all know he is not an ultraconservative and has woked with those from the democratic party many times (usually .pissing his people off)

Obama is trying to ride out the campaing with the economy at the fore-front yet he along with many within the democratic party voting against looking into Fannie/Freddy and he has taken in more money from them than everyone else in tyhe senate except the Pedophile Barney Frank who has been in thier pocket for years.

I feel sorry for many people who consider themselves liberal but feel betrayed when they see thier cause being headed by such nutjobs as Nancy Pelosy. Even republicans are somewhat betrayed in that most in the house and senate regardless of party lean farther left than thier constituents.

I seriously think they need to investigate Mr. Frank who is head of the banking committee and his dealings with Mac/Mae.

Of the money our Federal government spends only 30% is spent on programs that congress has power over and the other 70% is against the powers given to them under the consittution.

Anyone know how much a kid's "free lunch" costs?




$70 per lunch



We all know that our govt is inefficient but that is actually how many of those who wrote the constitution wanted so that they could not take on powers in which they were not given. So why in the world do we want them to hanndle Healthcare and social security?

I say let the feds do what they have the power to do and leave the rest to the states.



Oh and someone please replace Pelosy and I will think higher of the Donkey's.




One more reason!

I do not like the possibility of a Filibister proof Senate, House, and president all being of the same party. This is regardless of if they are Dems/Reps because I do not think legislation should be able to be passed so freely without objection.

Barack says he will do what Clinton did but Clinton also had to get throught congress 1st.


So if anything I think people should vote McCain just so this doesn't happen and so our checks/balances will continue to work.

Also there will be a huge change if Obama is elected but I fear that change will be the country making a big leftward shift.

Cut spending, don't raise taxes, cut capital gains is what I think needs to be done.

Also name one thing Bush has done that is "Conservative"? His bill for prescription medicine just shows how he is a faux republican.

Does anyone actually care why she fired this guy????




I don't know. Maybe you should ask in your "Is This America" thread.

... cut capital gains is what I think needs to be done.



Given the socialist bent of the bailout, can you imagine the outcry from the so-called free market guys if capital gains were eliminated from the tax code this year? Tax revenues will be way down due to capital losses. Maybe this stock market crash is just a surreptitious tax cut for the wealthy! :p

Matt, see one reason I don't fear Obama as much as some people.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DUAFq2vCBF4&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DUAFq2vCBF4&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

... cut capital gains is what I think needs to be done.



Given the socialist bent of the bailout, can you imagine the outcry from the so-called free market guys if capital gains were eliminated from the tax code this year? Tax revenues will be way down due to capital losses. Maybe this stock market crash is just a surreptitious tax cut for the wealthy! :p




Investors need to get back in the market and right now everyone is standing around not wanting to put money in to companies that might be taken over by the government. I wish I had $10,000 to invest because I bet I could make a lick buying up some of these low stocks.

Oh and about appointing liberal judges, of course they would have to be fairly liberal or tcongress would not vote them in! I don't think that many of the Democrats in Congress think that Bush's judges are liberal enough. I actually have some Quotes from the congress people complaining about how extremely conservative Bush's appointees were and said he should pick more balanced. The names of the people he mentioned happened to be the two most liberal judges who have approved of many things that do not resinate with the american people.

They want liberal judges so they can loosen the constitution.

Matt, see one reason I don't fear Obama as much as some people.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DUAFq2vCBF4&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DUAFq2vCBF4&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>




BTW Bipartisanship is the worst thing we have going as you can see in the Kennedy/McCain bill but it does prove he actually has worked with the other side and isn't on the extreme of his party.


If he voted against the bill he may have been able to make it work in the polls but then again I have a feeling OBama wouldn't be saying this is a "wallstreet" bailout but would instead be going on about how McCain doesn't get the people and voted against Making sure thier money in the banks was safe.

I�m so befuddled�after marching for civil rights�after marching against an unjustifiable war�my generation became complacent and more concerned with out own individual needs. By allowing the season for loving to become �the past� we have become numb to the same old rhetoric of the Limbaugh clones. These conservative politics have ruled this nation since Nixon. Even Carter and Clinton were considered fence riders enabling them to get elected when the people felt the trickle down policies were not providing for us as a nation. There has not been a �liberal� candidate elected to the Presidency since FDR. No my bad, since JFK, and we know how he was terminated.
So many people today think that the actor Ronnie Rayguns was a brilliant leader and economic genius with his trickle down theories. If we make the richest people richer and promise them they will continue to get more and more richer, then and only then, they will stand over you and trickle on you. This hasn�t worked because the pie is only so large. For them to continue to get a bigger and bigger share, someone has to take less. The bailout didn�t make the pie bigger�it just borrowed from our children and their children. This is easy to do since they�re not even aware of what we�re doing. Obama wants to stop the greed that is choking us as a society. Those very same rich �Americans� took that money over the years and laid off real Americans and sent their jobs overseas where they could pay 25% of what they were paying here for us to produce the products we consume, shutting down our factories and wrecklessly watched us slide into the crisis we�re witnessing today. Those conservatives are immoral, greedy, careless, people undeserving of the title of good Americans.
I almost want McCain to win because four years from now the right wing will say that Obama was a failure since her couldn�t fix all the problems in one term. The problems are enormous and it will take a long time to fix them. The conservatives dug this pit and they should be held responsible, but by electing another one into office we will continue our walk on the dark side. There is no reason to fear an Obama presidency. Even Mr. McCain said so when he realized the unbridled fear that was being created in the hearts of so many of the little people. I gained a lot of respect for him when I saw him say that in spite of the gasps and �no�s� that were cried out by his people.
I know I�ve rambled on too long here, but I just have a hard time understanding why these things aren�t obvious to everyone. I also know that I haven�t converted anyone and have only riled the most vocal of you, so I�ll just finish by saying thank you America, for being a country where we are all allowed our views and the right to express them.

Don�t Trickle on Me !!!!!!!!!!!!

And what does giving the pie out teach our youth? It teaches you that it is ok to mess up because someone will always be there to help you out and therefore more people set themselves up to fail knowing they will still recieve from our government.

Not if there are rules in place (and enforced) to keep people from being able to set themselves up to fail...

Blame who you want for that part.

I say let the feds do what they have the power to do and leave the rest to the states.



Welcome to the American Union. 50 different countries united under one flag...well, until Hawaii and Alaska break away and some of the others join together to survive.

Skip, you are way more trusting than I am. Though McCain does resemble the grinch, he didn't just grow a heart overnight, but instead realized that stoking angry mobs was hurting him in the polls, thus, his "change of heart." It's all about being elected to McCain. Country first is a joke.

I saw a local (or private) interviewer talk to some people at a Palin rally. Part comedy sketch, part reminder that anger and fear rule a large segment of the population.

I say let the feds do what they have the power to do and leave the rest to the states.



Welcome to the American Union. 50 different countries united under one flag...well, until Hawaii and Alaska break away and some of the others join together to survive.



United states seems to imply that the states themselves should have a lot of power. Let government control our millitary, commerce, and passage of laws but leave the rest to the individual states! At least that way you could move elsewhere if you didn't like what was going on.

I think TX should break away but maybe I am a extremist!

Skip, you are way more trusting than I am. Though McCain does resemble the grinch, he didn't just grow a heart overnight, but instead realized that stoking angry mobs was hurting him in the polls, thus, his "change of heart." It's all about being elected to McCain. Country first is a joke.

I saw a local (or private) interviewer talk to some people at a Palin rally. Part comedy sketch, part reminder that anger and fear rule a large segment of the population.



So should the Dems be held accountable for all the ludicris things stated about Bush from Protestors?

Should all Dems be considered to feel the same as many on the left of the party in Hollywood that like Fidel castro and feel he was a great man?

Should Obama be held responsible for being just as much a politician as the rest of them and if anything he is even more corrupt.

So should the Dems be held accountable for all the ludicris things stated about Bush from Protestors?
only if they are actively pushing those ludicrous things


Should all Dems be considered to feel the same as many on the left of the party in Hollywood that like Fidel castro and feel he was a great man?
I really don't know how to answer this as I am not much of a democrat, nor have I ever met anyone who felt Fidel Castro was a great man. Where the hell did this thought come from?


Should Obama be held responsible for being just as much a politician as the rest of them and if anything he is even more corrupt.
Obama should be held responsible for anything he is responsible for? What specifically worries you, and how is he so much more corrupt?


Matt, are you feeling guilty about something, why not simply disassociate yourself from those fearful and angry people?

I think TX should break away but maybe I am a extremist!



You are. Texas couldn't hack it as an independent in the 1830-40's and would be even more inept at doing it today.

Not to mention the pains of seceding would make Texas a third-world country.

Or that whipping Oklahoma in Dallas would result in an international crisis. :p

I agree with James (and I'm more of a Democrat than he):

Where is this nonsense about the greatness of Castro coming from?
How is Obama more corrupt than other politicians?
Have you been reading "sources" provided by Neo-Cons?

How is Obama more corrupt than other politicians?
Depends on where the other politicians are from....

Too many bald faced lies, too little loyalty.

Or even worse, too much loyalty only public disassociation.

I expect a certain amount of truth blurring from all politicians, but sitting in a pew for twenty years and never hearing a sermon? Claiming to be very careful at picking friends and not vetting the persons that you choose to start your political career with? Getting too many breaks and support from the very far left and thinking you aren't going to have to pay them back?

I don't trust him, can't think of anything he could do at this time to make me trust him.

I don't really like the options, but fear a three way control block more than anything under our method of government.

I've always thought that the founding fathers were careful to put together a plan they agreed with and then set it up to be next to impossible to really screw up the fundamentals because the two party system would prevent either party getting too much power.

I think TX should break away but maybe I am a extremist!



You are. Texas couldn't hack it as an independent in the 1830-40's and would be even more inept at doing it today.

Not to mention the pains of seceding would make Texas a third-world country.



If they couldn't hack it why did they regret joining the US after Annexation? The truth is there was a lot of animosity after we got our independence and a lot of power struggles going on between Rusk, Houston, and those who were anti-Houston.

We couldn't be any more inept than congrees currently is and I fear that won't improve in the next few years.

So should the Dems be held accountable for all the ludicris things stated about Bush from Protestors?
only if they are actively pushing those ludicrous things


Should all Dems be considered to feel the same as many on the left of the party in Hollywood that like Fidel castro and feel he was a great man?
I really don't know how to answer this as I am not much of a democrat, nor have I ever met anyone who felt Fidel Castro was a great man. Where the hell did this thought come from?


Should Obama be held responsible for being just as much a politician as the rest of them and if anything he is even more corrupt.
Obama should be held responsible for anything he is responsible for? What specifically worries you, and how is he so much more corrupt?


Matt, are you feeling guilty about something, why not simply disassociate yourself from those fearful and angry people?




Well I was thinking of switching over until I just listened to Obama's speach about bailing out credit card loans as well as everything else under the sun.

I agree with James (and I'm more of a Democrat than he):

Where is this nonsense about the greatness of Castro coming from? Matt Damon I think?

How is Obama more corrupt than other politicians? He may not be but he comes in claiming to be above it all when he is at least just as bad as the rest.

Have you been reading "sources" provided by Neo-Cons? Nope



I will say it again that the #1 reason I will NOT vote for Obama is not his lack of experience but the fact I do not want to see far left policies fly through congress without any opposition.

Look at how great the states like Vermont are doing with all their leadership.

Oh and man he comes off as full of himself when he is smacking on his Nicorette with hisc coat over his back and cool sunglasses on.

I should vote for Barr as I think spendong should be cut by at least 25% and neither Obama or McCain will do that.

Actually I may since McCain should win TX.


Also I feel that voting is a privledge and that we should all have to take a little knowledge test before voting. I mean god forbid the people voting actually know what they are voting for.


WHERE IS NEWT???????

Gary, do you trust McCain any more or less?

it really doesn't matter too much who you vote for in TX cause McCain will win TX no matter what, so go ahead and vote for Obama if you want to be able to say "I voted for the 1st 1/2 african american President" or vote for who you really relate to like nader or barr as a protest vote. McCain will win TX but Obama will win the election... <--- I errontee that :D

Newt is busy making money as a pundit. A lot less stressful and more permanent occupation.

Might be the best thing he's done in the political arena.

it really doesn't matter too much who you vote for in TX cause McCain will win TX no matter what, so go ahead and vote for Obama if you want to be able to say "I voted for the 1st 1/2 african american President" or vote for who you really relate to like nader or barr as a protest vote. McCain will win TX but Obama will win the election... <--- I errontee that :D



I thought he was like 18% black. :p

After serving as a Kennedy delegate at the precinct convention and then the regional convention in '79, I voted for John Anderson just to help him qualify for government funds and to help promote a third party concept. Then I voted for Ralph Nadar a couple of times after hearing him speak at UTA. I'm not sure McCain will carry Texas so I'll do what I can to help the cause. I don't believe that Barak is infallible, I just feel he's going to get us going in a different direction.

If I could reach down deep in my bleeding heart and spill it all over the stage..... ;)

Bumper Sticker

Welcome to America, where profit is private, but risk is public!

Good thing all corporate America is creating so many jobs to counter the fact they don't pay taxes... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Did any one hear the bit about Palin's start in politics? The first party that supported her was the Alaska Independence Party (I believe she spoke at their convention this year). Their founder was quoted as saying "I'm Alaskan, I hate America." Their basic platform is that Alaskans should form militia groups and succeed from the country. Too funny.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/10/palin_chryson/

it really doesn't matter too much who you vote for in TX cause McCain will win TX no matter what, so go ahead and vote for Obama if you want to be able to say "I voted for the 1st 1/2 african american President" or vote for who you really relate to like nader or barr as a protest vote. McCain will win TX but Obama will win the election... <--- I errontee that :D



Good thing he's going to win one state. I'd hate to see him lose them all... :D

Skip,

Just to counter Scooter, your assertion that the pie is only so big is correct. What Scooter doesn't do is an analysis of who really gets the pie. He wants to believe that it is the poor who takes the lion's share. What the real data shows is that it is corporate America who takes the cash and most of the benefit of our tax base goes to the rich.

BTW - don't discount Barack's ability to have an impact on our economic situation. Begin with the observation that few economists support the bailout the way it is being implemented, and realize what a President who works with the numbers as opposed to his "gut" can do. It took some time, but even that idiot Clinton was able to clean up the mess that Reagan and Bush left for us.

BTW - Scooter's assertion that Barack is going to give away even more money is counter to the observation that the Democrats have been the more fiscally responsible party over the past 30 years. Pretty sad given that the Republican Party of the 50s was actually fiscally careful.

As one who values fiscal responsibility, I've been hugely disappointed with the GOP.

I think TX should break away but maybe I am a extremist!



You are. Texas couldn't hack it as an independent in the 1830-40's and would be even more inept at doing it today.

Not to mention the pains of seceding would make Texas a third-world country.



Actually, Texas current GDP is more than 93% of the countries in the world.

Well what about all the money we get from the Federal government to pay for roads and schools???

I can answer that, we receive .94 cents on the dollar of federal taxes paid in 2005, and that is one of our better years. In the 80's it was more like .75 cents on the dollar.

Therefore, simply changing our Federal Taxes to State taxes, would give TEXAS more money when we are running a SURPLUS already. (will be between 10 and 15 BILLION this year, when California is about to go bankrupt)

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/10/palin_chryson/


Thanks for the good read, there were several things in there that if true would make me support Palin more. She is not acting like someone who keeps friends with Libertarians and Bircher's.

(BTW, i have read somewhere that a copy of "The New American" is in a picture of Sarah in her office. If she reads that publication, she is not all that bad.)

<font color="blue"> [profanity removed] </font>

I think TX should break away but maybe I am a extremist!



You are. Texas couldn't hack it as an independent in the 1830-40's and would be even more inept at doing it today.

Not to mention the pains of seceding would make Texas a third-world country.



Actually, Texas current GDP is more than 93% of the countries in the world.

Well what about all the money we get from the Federal government to pay for roads and schools???

I can answer that, we receive .94 cents on the dollar of federal taxes paid in 2005, and that is one of our better years. In the 80's it was more like .75 cents on the dollar.

Therefore, simply changing our Federal Taxes to State taxes, would give TEXAS more money when we are running a SURPLUS already. (will be between 10 and 15 BILLION this year, when California is about to go bankrupt)



Bryan, how many companies would bail on Texas if secession were seriously considered? I'd bet most of them would look to move as many facilities as possible to more stable locations. And how many people would leave the state to remain US citizens? A fair chunk, I'd imagine.

EDIT: How many foreign countries would risk their standing with the US to aid Texas? And how badly the infrastructure would be destroyed by the inevitable military conflict? All things considered, Texas would be a third-world country.

YAWN!

Not to mention all the federal tax gifts to big oil and the military and on and on and on. If you took away all the goodies Texas has gotten since LBJ started getting them for Texas we'd be just like... Mississippi. Get over it Pizza.

Skip,

Just to counter Scooter, your assertion that the pie is only so big is correct. What Scooter doesn't do is an analysis of who really gets the pie. He wants to believe that it is the poor who takes the lion's share. What the real data shows is that it is corporate America who takes the cash and most of the benefit of our tax base goes to the rich.

BTW - don't discount Barack's ability to have an impact on our economic situation. Begin with the observation that few economists support the bailout the way it is being implemented, and realize what a President who works with the numbers as opposed to his "gut" can do. It took some time, but even that idiot Clinton was able to clean up the mess that Reagan and Bush left for us.

BTW - Scooter's assertion that Barack is going to give away even more money is counter to the observation that the Democrats have been the more fiscally responsible party over the past 30 years. Pretty sad given that the Republican Party of the 50s was actually fiscally careful.

As one who values fiscal responsibility, I've been hugely disappointed with the GOP.




Maybe I should vote for him so that I can get a tax cut? Oh wait not a tax cut but I would get a nice check from the government that is even bigger than the income tax I pay.

"Pretty sad given that the Republican Party of the 50s was actually fiscally careful"- I'll give you a bash to throw at the GOP Lyle, the two parties have switched sides since then so they were really Dems in the 50's.

I'm sorry but the guys such as Oberman and Matthews on MSNBC are just out of control!

I have started watching thier shows just to see how they handle the issues and I was sadly dissapionted when Matthews said that the race issue has finally been trumped by the economy which is giving the lead to Obama.

They also stated they expect AR to move towards Obama due to this and I think it is unreasonable to make such an assumption. If someone will not vote for Obama because he is what he is it doesn't matter what he says they will not vote for him. Also if race was really being trumped then things would at least level out but as it stands Obama is stil getting 90% of the African american vote and of those I don't know how many know much about the issues.

Also during the Matthews "Hardball" interview with McCain he continually painted McCain as a bad guy and even joked around with Biden laughing while saying McCain is lurching.

I don't think we would ever see this kind of reaction from Matthews of the other side and it is very clear what his agenda is and MSNBC's ratings are tanking as well as his.


My guess is that if this gets within 3-4 pts McCain will win. Obama will poll less on election day then on the daily polls. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

McFlalin'

Back Sliming

McSliming


Those are the headlines on the Oberman show for 15 minutes while talking to two sepatate Democratic strategists with NO Republican side represented..

BIASED

of course just like Fox is Rep. biased, CNN is the closest to un-biased i've seen for the major news networks...

What issues that you care about are different with Obama than Hillary? do you think McCain will be closer to a Clinton presidency, I only ask cause i remember you liking her...

btw:
lurched, lurch�ing, lurch�es.
1. To stagger. See synonyms at blunder.
2. To roll or pitch suddenly or erratically: The ship lurched in the storm. The car gave a start and then lurched forward.

Gary, do you trust McCain any more or less?



Yes, because I have a pretty good idea where he is coming from and which skeletons he owes political capital to. That does not mean I like everything he stands for, but I can trust where I think he is going.

I don't trust Obama's motives and his positions are so fluid and undefined that they are no help in guessing where he will go. All you have to go on is his past, and he is working very hard to keep most of that buried.

But I'll probably vote for someone else because I can't vote to make them find better candidates for the main parties.

Bryan, how many companies would bail on Texas if secession were seriously considered? I'd bet most of them would look to move as many facilities as possible to more stable locations. And how many people would leave the state to remain US citizens? A fair chunk, I'd imagine.


The question in, how many would move here because of LESS TAXES. That is one of the reasons companies keep moving there corporate HQ's here already.

The promise of less taxes and more freedom would bring in just as many as would leave in my opinion.


EDIT: How many foreign countries would risk their standing with the US to aid Texas? And how badly the infrastructure would be destroyed by the inevitable military conflict? All things considered, Texas would be a third-world country.



now that is a valid point. I tend to agree, Texas would not be able to secede easily.

I read a piece of legislation from Arizona that called for it to Secede from the USA if a North American Union was formed. I think a lot of States would do that.

Several states have already passed legislation or are in the process of passing legislation condemning the SPP and NAU.

25 states have passed legislation against the National ID Card too.

Also if race was really being trumped then things would at least level out but as it stands Obama is stil getting 90% of the African american vote and of those I don't know how many know much about the issues.




It's absolutely a crime that you are unable to see the inherant racism in that statement. Does your Jesus have a hood to go with that robe? I didn't think so.

Also if race was really being trumped then things would at least level out but as it stands Obama is stil getting 90% of the African american vote and of those I don't know how many know much about the issues.




It's absolutely a crime that you are unable to see the inherant racism in that statement. Does your Jesus have a hood to go with that robe? I didn't think so.




Let me clarify, there is just as much Race favortism in this race as there is opposition to a candidate because of race. Ala just as many vote for one because of race as vote against someone because of race.

I think it is sad that the only people bringing up race are Obama supporters.

of course just like Fox is Rep. biased, CNN is the closest to un-biased i've seen for the major news networks...

What issues that you care about are different with Obama than Hillary? do you think McCain will be closer to a Clinton presidency, I only ask cause i remember you liking her...

btw:
lurched, lurch�ing, lurch�es.
1. To stagger. See synonyms at blunder.
2. To roll or pitch suddenly or erratically: The ship lurched in the storm. The car gave a start and then lurched forward.




You talking to me?

I never said I liked Clinton because I think she and her husband are the most crooked people around and your right they are very similar on all the issues I care about but they just disagree with what I believe.


I did vote for Hillary so she wouldn't los in the Primary though. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Also if race was really being trumped then things would at least level out but as it stands Obama is stil getting 90% of the African american vote and of those I don't know how many know much about the issues.




It's absolutely a crime that you are unable to see the inherant racism in that statement. Does your Jesus have a hood to go with that robe? I didn't think so.




Also I would say the same for my peers who I must say are for the most part clueless on nearly all the issues. In my government class it seems like I am the only one who ever raises thier hand.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CHe7OqAzZJo&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CHe7OqAzZJo&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Man she sure tells both parties side!

Also on youtube under her other titles they ALL have something negative about the GOP in the title with nothing about Obama or other issues besides questioning McCain.


I am glad someone finally told this lady how laughable her show has become give her a piece of what many think of show like her's.


The good stuff starts 3 min in.

Nice sidenote after watching Palin call out her own supporters today...she is quite the "Maverick" :)

dumb __________________


do they realize there are just a few weeks left?...Welcome to OBAMA land and that isn't going to be good...but John had it until he grabbed AK JOKE

read up on Hunter S. Thompson..

These are the years the R back away and let the D fail...

we are in for a fun ride

GONZO Politics..

BUSH, BUSH JR, NIXON and TRUMAN

and forbid and I register R

here we go boys and girls

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Njy-5X2huFQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Njy-5X2huFQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Why am I not suprised?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5BnLozS-TnM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5BnLozS-TnM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mKhzqG3_DPA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mKhzqG3_DPA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Matt can you even vote yet?

Matt can you even vote yet?



This is my 1st year to.

Why Obama will win and we are doomed as a country.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NyvqhdllXgU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NyvqhdllXgU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

this is at a McCain Rally not some outside news source

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5g0d3_KE5js&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5g0d3_KE5js&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Copy and paste from the embeded link.

I don't know if tha is the right way but it worked for me.

Matt, blacks overwhelmingly vote Democratic, regardless of the color of the candidates. Go back through the last few election cycles and you'll find examples of the white Democrat beating the black Republican in the black demographic.


As for your Bradley effect reference, check out this:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/bradley%20effect


PS - MSNBC is left-biased? Who knew?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2939476582_7b1cf99e83.jpg
Link to post with picture (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/religulous.html)


Yep, this is the base.

Matt, blacks overwhelmingly vote Democratic, regardless of the color of the candidates. Go back through the last few election cycles and you'll find examples of the white Democrat beating the black Republican in the black demographic.


As for your Bradley effect reference, check out this:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/bradley%20effect


PS - MSNBC is left-biased? Who knew?




Tony of course I realize that Black voters go for Democratic candidates but do you think it would still be 90% if Hilary were the nominee? I bet it would be 10-20pts less.


Also I understand everyone knows MSNBC is a joke which is why thier ratings are so low. :D

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2939476582_7b1cf99e83.jpg
Link to post with picture (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/religulous.html)


Yep, this is the base.




Yeah there are some people who are far right who BOMB planned parenthood clinics too but they aren't the "Base". Also I think some feel he is a muslim after seeing how he was enrolled in school as a Muslim. Now that may have been the religion of his stepfather but the black liberation movement which his Reverend preaches does have ties to the Muslim religion. ALA many within the movement are black muslims.

I don't believe he is but that is why i think some people may.

You don't believe he is a muslim. Wow, that is awfully decent and open-minded of you. :D

Tony of course I realize that Black voters go for Democratic candidates but do you think it would still be 90% if Hilary were the nominee? I bet it would be 10-20pts less.



You underestimate the power of the party factor. A 10% drop would be on the high end. You'd more likely see a 20% drop in turnout versus a 20% shift in choice.

Why Obama will win and we are doomed as a country.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NyvqhdllXgU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NyvqhdllXgU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>



That is hilarious. These people don't have a frickin clue.

:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAyK-enrF1g

Tony of course I realize that Black voters go for Democratic candidates but do you think it would still be 90% if Hilary were the nominee? I bet it would be 10-20pts less.



You underestimate the power of the party factor. A 10% drop would be on the high end. You'd more likely see a 20% drop in turnout versus a 20% shift in choice.




True but what about the combo of voters not coming out as well as those who choose to vote for the "other"?

Either you are confused or you are changing your argument.

You can't add non-voters into the percentages. That's mixing quantity analysis with quality analysis.

The actual impact on the result will be affected based on quantity, but demographic will hold the percentage.

Palin tells Obama to rein in ACORN. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14568.html)
1. Obama does not run ACORN
2. ACORN employees are committing fraud by filing false registration cards.
3. ACORN supervisors flag every suspicious card.
4. ACORN works with the states to weed out the false ones.
5. "Mickey Mouse" never shows up to vote. Never. Never. Never.
6. McCain has publicly praised ACORN for its efforts in home ownership and voter registration.


Think McCain wishes he wasn't so mavericky with the VP pick?


Perhaps Palin is willing to rein in the GOP officials working to suppress voters?
Fraud vs. Suppression (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Fraud_vs_Suppression.html?showall)

Link to post with picture (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/religulous.html)
Yep, this is the base.


Yeah there are some people who are far right who BOMB planned parenthood clinics too but they aren't the "Base".





1:25 p.m.
Chris Hackett addressed the increasingly feisty crowd as they await the arrival of Gov. Palin.

Each time the Republican candidate for the seat in the 10th Congressional District mentioned Barack Obama the crowd booed loudly.

One man screamed "kill him!"

Supporters have been noted shouting �kill him,� �terrorist,� �off with his head� and other equally incendiary terms about Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama. Others have directly suggested Mr. Obama is a Muslim, which he is not, or a traitor. Some comments even drew rebuke from Republican presidential nominee John McCain.

Other than the lone man, there were no other such outbursts.




Not the base, huh?

Scranton Times link (http://www.scrantontimes.com/articles/2008/10/14/news/doc48f4ba8994588930223377.txt)

Palin tells Obama to rein in ACORN. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14568.html)
1. Obama does not run ACORN
2. ACORN employees are committing fraud by filing false registration cards.
3. ACORN supervisors flag every suspicious card.
4. ACORN works with the states to weed out the false ones.
5. "Mickey Mouse" never shows up to vote. Never. Never. Never.
6. McCain has publicly praised ACORN for its efforts in home ownership and voter registration.


Think McCain wishes he wasn't so mavericky with the VP pick?


Perhaps Palin is willing to rein in the GOP officials working to suppress voters?
Fraud vs. Suppression (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Fraud_vs_Suppression.html?showall)



When you pay a near-homeless person $5 per every person that they register (this is common) you're going to get some goofy names and duplicates and illegal aliens. This happens for the democrats and the republicans.

Also if race was really being trumped then things would at least level out but as it stands Obama is stil getting 90% of the African american vote and of those I don't know how many know much about the issues.




It's absolutely a crime that you are unable to see the inherant racism in that statement. Does your Jesus have a hood to go with that robe? I didn't think so.




Let me clarify, there is just as much Race favortism in this race as there is opposition to a candidate because of race. Ala just as many vote for one because of race as vote against someone because of race.

I think it is sad that the only people bringing up race are Obama supporters.


So when you made the original statement in this quote you weren't bringing up racism....someone else did somewhere? Your statement didn't imply that blacks were voting for him because he's black dispite the issues......it said they were voting for him because he's black and most of them don't know the issues anyway.
Once again I say it's a crime you can't see the inherant racism........

Why Obama will win and we are doomed as a country.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NyvqhdllXgU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NyvqhdllXgU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>



That is hilarious. These people don't have a frickin clue.


Since Howard became one of the super rich he has adopted right wing polotics to protect his precious money from the tax man. I'm shocked Robin doesn't stand up for her race at all and continues to give a long leash to uphold his shock jock image. I was a huge fan of the show when it was on free airwaves but at times Howard can come off very selfish and narrow minded.
This tape does not say how many people he interviewed to get those three and I know there are dunces everywhere.
Your choice to say "frickin people" shows you are naive yourself to think all black voters are dumb.

Bryan, you have made your opinons very clear, and to some of us they are quite transparent. You have chosen to remove yourself from any majority to allow you to critisize everyone as inept to serve. Our choices ARE limited, but they are the choices and even though they may not have all the answers...you would be wise to see that no one does. Pick the side that's the closest to what you believe, help make the argument for them, and be patient.
If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice. ;)

Either you are confused or you are changing your argument.

You can't add non-voters into the percentages. That's mixing quantity analysis with quality analysis.

The actual impact on the result will be affected based on quantity, but demographic will hold the percentage.




What I was saying is that I was incorrect in not mentioning that many voters may have just stayed home Vs voted for the other party.

Link to post with picture (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/religulous.html)
Yep, this is the base.


Yeah there are some people who are far right who BOMB planned parenthood clinics too but they aren't the "Base".





1:25 p.m.
Chris Hackett addressed the increasingly feisty crowd as they await the arrival of Gov. Palin.

Each time the Republican candidate for the seat in the 10th Congressional District mentioned Barack Obama the crowd booed loudly.

One man screamed "kill him!"

Supporters have been noted shouting �kill him,� �terrorist,� �off with his head� and other equally incendiary terms about Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama. Others have directly suggested Mr. Obama is a Muslim, which he is not, or a traitor. Some comments even drew rebuke from Republican presidential nominee John McCain.

Other than the lone man, there were no other such outbursts.




Not the base, huh?

Scranton Times link (http://www.scrantontimes.com/articles/2008/10/14/news/doc48f4ba8994588930223377.txt)




If it is so bad why do I keep hearing the same three quotes that came from the crowd? I mean do they all say the same thing or maybe it just isn't occuring with as much frequency as reported.

I can remember many times in Obama's rallies booes coming from just the mention of McCain or Bush. If Obama thinks this is bad I wonder how he will handle it in the presidency? I mean a few crazy things have been stated about Bush in the last 8 years.

I won't bash Obama nearly as bad as the Dems do Bush but I also feel most Conservatives feel they have to show at least respect to the position if they don't like the person who is filling it. Unfortunately we have people like Lyle who would rather spew filth in every post about our sitting president.

Also if race was really being trumped then things would at least level out but as it stands Obama is stil getting 90% of the African american vote and of those I don't know how many know much about the issues.




It's absolutely a crime that you are unable to see the inherant racism in that statement. Does your Jesus have a hood to go with that robe? I didn't think so.




Let me clarify, there is just as much Race favortism in this race as there is opposition to a candidate because of race. Ala just as many vote for one because of race as vote against someone because of race.

I think it is sad that the only people bringing up race are Obama supporters.


So when you made the original statement in this quote you weren't bringing up racism....someone else did somewhere? <font color="red"> Chris Matthews 6 times in 4 minutes </font> Your statement didn't imply that blacks were voting for him because he's black dispite the issues......it said they were voting for him because he's black and most of them don't know the issues anyway.
Once again I say it's a crime you can't see the inherant racism........ <font color="red"> If that statement were only applied to blacks that would be true but they aren't the only ones voting who know little about the issues. Maybe by the way I am typing it you think I am implying all blacks are ignorant to what is going on but that isn't true as some are voting for McCain.</font>



I think the same can be said for the many of the youth in this county along with others that know as much as those in the Stern Vid.


Also I would bet that more African Americans are becoming interested and thus informing themselves of the issues more than in any year past but just like the rest of America the Majority are somewhat oblivious.

The advantage of a democratic republic. You elect the government you deserve.

The advantage of a democratic republic. You elect the government you deserve.




Sad but true and it is done so enthusiastically.

Also if race was really being trumped then things would at least level out but as it stands Obama is stil getting 90% of the African american vote and of those I don't know how many know much about the issues.




It's absolutely a crime that you are unable to see the inherant racism in that statement. Does your Jesus have a hood to go with that robe? I didn't think so.




Let me clarify, there is just as much Race favortism in this race as there is opposition to a candidate because of race. Ala just as many vote for one because of race as vote against someone because of race.

I think it is sad that the only people bringing up race are Obama supporters.


So when you made the original statement in this quote you weren't bringing up racism....someone else did somewhere? <font color="red"> Chris Matthews 6 times in 4 minutes </font> Your statement didn't imply that blacks were voting for him because he's black dispite the issues......it said they were voting for him because he's black and most of them don't know the issues anyway.
Once again I say it's a crime you can't see the inherant racism........ <font color="red"> If that statement were only applied to blacks <font color="green"> Your statement WAS about blacks <font color="red"> that would be true but they aren't the only ones voting who know little about the issues. Maybe by the way I am typing it you think I am implying all blacks are ignorant to what is going on but that isn't true as some are voting for McCain.</font>



<font color="black"> I think the same can be said for the many of the youth in this county along with others that know as much as those in the Stern Vid.


Also I would bet that more African Americans are becoming interested and thus informing themselves of the issues more than in any year past but just like the rest of America the Majority are somewhat oblivious.


Do you feel a grateful compassion for being lucky enough to not be oblivious or more of a greater than thou arrogance?

all hail the Messiah

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OowxMcVTjTE&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OowxMcVTjTE&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

I actually find this quite humorous

Actually Skip, I think everyone should vote 3rd party this year. I have voted 3rd party for the last several years, but this year I think it is important for everyone to vote NOTA (None of the Above)

I am still leaning on Bob Barr, even though he had some problems with the Campaign for Liberty people. I think it was just some misunderstandings that got out of hand. Barr lost a lot of supporters over that.

Why Obama will win and we are doomed as a country.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NyvqhdllXgU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NyvqhdllXgU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>



That is hilarious. These people don't have a frickin clue.


Since Howard became one of the super rich he has adopted right wing polotics to protect his precious money from the tax man. I'm shocked Robin doesn't stand up for her race at all and continues to give a long leash to uphold his shock jock image. I was a huge fan of the show when it was on free airwaves but at times Howard can come off very selfish and narrow minded.
This tape does not say how many people he interviewed to get those three and I know there are dunces everywhere.
Your choice to say "frickin people" shows you are naive yourself to think all black voters are dumb.



Did I say all black voters were dumb??? Did I say any black voters are dumb??? I think the people they interviewed here are idiots, whether they be black, chinese, mexican or white. You don't have to be black to be an idiot, they come in all races. If you could get anything out of my post, at least condemn me for calling people that vote for Obama idiots, that would have been closer. Everyone is entitled to their vote. Sadly, I do think Obama Bin Laden will win. The welfare people will be sitting pretty.

Oh no, I said welfare people, did I mean blacks this time to???

Also if race was really being trumped then things would at least level out but as it stands Obama is stil getting 90% of the African american vote and of those I don't know how many know much about the issues.




It's absolutely a crime that you are unable to see the inherant racism in that statement. Does your Jesus have a hood to go with that robe? I didn't think so.




Let me clarify, there is just as much Race favortism in this race as there is opposition to a candidate because of race. Ala just as many vote for one because of race as vote against someone because of race.

I think it is sad that the only people bringing up race are Obama supporters.


So when you made the original statement in this quote you weren't bringing up racism....someone else did somewhere? <font color="red"> Chris Matthews 6 times in 4 minutes </font> Your statement didn't imply that blacks were voting for him because he's black dispite the issues......it said they were voting for him because he's black and most of them don't know the issues anyway.
Once again I say it's a crime you can't see the inherant racism........ <font color="red"> If that statement were only applied to blacks <font color="green"> Your statement WAS about blacks <font color="red"> that would be true but they aren't the only ones voting who know little about the issues. Maybe by the way I am typing it you think I am implying all blacks are ignorant to what is going on but that isn't true as some are voting for McCain.</font>



<font color="black"> I think the same can be said for the many of the youth in this county along with others that know as much as those in the Stern Vid.


Also I would bet that more African Americans are becoming interested and thus informing themselves of the issues more than in any year past but just like the rest of America the Majority are somewhat oblivious.


Do you feel a grateful compassion for being lucky enough to not be oblivious or more of a greater than thou arrogance?



No I do not feel any compassion for being able to see Obama's arrogance. The man is arrogant in thinkng he is qualified if you ask me. Heck ask him 4 years ago and he would say such a thing would be arrogant.

Old man, this is one kid you won't convince that a vote for Obama would mean a vote for a better future.

If it is so bad why do I keep hearing the same three quotes that came from the crowd? I mean do they all say the same thing or maybe it just isn't occuring with as much frequency as reported.

I can remember many times in Obama's rallies booes coming from just the mention of McCain or Bush. If Obama thinks this is bad I wonder how he will handle it in the presidency? I mean a few crazy things have been stated about Bush in the last 8 years.



Booing is not the same as yelling "Terrorist!", "Treason!", "Off with his head!", or "Kill him!" If you can't see the difference, you're an idiot.

McCain/Palin and their opening speakers are inciting and promoting this behavior -- and it's happening at every event. If you don't think there is something wrong with that, again, you're an idiot.

Notice how no one mentions that these hateful things are being said at Obama events? No mention even from the right-wing blogs or reporters.

I don't regularly watch Olbermann, but last night his comment about this situation was dead-on.
Olbermann's transcript. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27188346/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3022/2943946455_c623022e3d_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2943946455/)

ZZ, have you heard anything about Arizona polling?

Apparently, the AZ Republic polled the state last week, but didn't release the results and is re-polling this week. They wouldn't be holding results that are unfavorable to McCain, would they?

AZ Republic is a joke, in fact this state is a joke.... but we do have great weather in the winter. :D

Sadly, I do think Obama Bin Laden will win. The welfare people will be sitting pretty.



"Welfare people" doesn't make you racist. The statement itself is misguided, but not racist.

However, the first sentence defines you as ignorant.

The base strikes again.

the lesser of two goods (http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance151.html)

I am now leaning Baldwin after reading this article.

I still don't know

that reminds me of this video i saw:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jlXz9HhLkDU&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jlXz9HhLkDU&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Sadly, I do think Obama Bin Laden will win. The welfare people will be sitting pretty.



"Welfare people" doesn't make you racist. The statement itself is misguided, but not racist.

However, the first sentence defines you as ignorant.

The base strikes again.



Ignorant because I called him a name??? Come on now. I do think he is a sorry, un-qualified piece of trash, and should not even be considered for President.

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DRhrT22BsIY&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DRhrT22BsIY&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

Yes, ignorant. If you don't realize the charges carried in your name-calling, then you are ignorant. If you do realize them, well, there are other words that could be used.

Why do you think that way? And why is it so much harder for people to give their reasons instead of falling back on name-calling and slander?

What if there were a reversal of roles and qualifications?
What If?

What if McCain were former President of Harvard Law Review?
What if Obama graduated fifth from last in his graduating class?

What if McCain were still married to the 1st woman he said "I do" to?
What if Obama left his wife after she lost her looks and no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Michelle Obama were the wife that not only became addicted to painkillers, but obtained them illegally through her charitable organization?
What if Cindy McCain was the wife that graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama was a former member of the Keating-5?
What if McCain were a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

.

What if you were the boss, who would you hire to run our country with America facing historic debt, 2 wars, stumbling health care, a weakened dollar, all time high prison population, mortgage crises, bank foreclosures, etc.?

OBAMA:
Columbia University: B.A. Political Science, specializing in International Relations
Harvard: Juris Doctor (Magna Cum Laude)

BIDEN:
University of Delaware: B.A. in History, B.A. in Political Science
Syracuse University College of Law: Juris Doctor

MCCAIN:
United States Naval Academy: Class rank 894 of 899

PALIN:
Hawaii Pacific: 1 semester
North Idaho College: 2 semesters (general studies)
University of Idaho: 2 semesters (journalism)
Matanuska Susitna College: 1 semester
University of Idaho: 3 semesters B.A. in Journalism

What if Obama left his wife after she lost her looks and no longer measured up to his standards?


That is not exactly true, I agree on the outside it looks true, but in his Ex wifes own words, things changed when he got back from Vietnam. It was McCain just as much as her.


What if Obama was a former member of the Keating-5?



McCain was not involved much in this, that is why Obama is not attacking him on it.

I am not defending McCain, just trying to get the facts correct. You should see some of the stuff I get in my email box about Obama. (some of it from the Texas GOP) You should also see some of my responses to them.

Yes, ignorant. If you don't realize the charges carried in your name-calling, then you are ignorant. If you do realize them, well, there are other words that could be used.

Why do you think that way? And why is it so much harder for people to give their reasons instead of falling back on name-calling and slander?



I was really just joking about him being a "former" muslim, really was just meant to be a joke. Do you ever say things jokingly, if so, does that make you ignorant??? Ever watch SNL? They must be completely ignorant from all the stuff they say.

Personally as a Veteran, I think someone should have to serve in the armed forces in some capacity to qualify to become president. To know what it is like to be overseas, involved in conflict before they send our troops anywhere.
I'm not a fan of McCain either, but I do prefer him over Obama Bin Laden. :D

Actually Skip, I think everyone should vote 3rd party this year. I have voted 3rd party for the last several years, but this year I think it is important for everyone to vote NOTA (None of the Above)

I am still leaning on Bob Barr, even though he had some problems with the Campaign for Liberty people. I think it was just some misunderstandings that got out of hand. Barr lost a lot of supporters over that.


I just saw in today's Star Telegram that the independents will be holding their own debate on C-Span at 8pm on Sunday. Nadar and Barr will both participate and it will definately be entertaining.
I relate to your opinion of a third party bringing a true change, but I naively choose to believe that helping the candidate of the two major parties that I like the most is more of a progressive step. Like I said, I voted for Anderson and then Nadar more than once. I can tell we're on opposite sides of basic economic issues, but I still respect your desire to be effective. TC