No the blaze is great when new as well as when broken in. :D:D

{hastily puts Blaze down}

I didn't touch it guv, honest! It was like that when I got here!

:D:D:D

Tell me about the Blaze then. What is it like? What would I use it for? Always nice to know what it should do before you throw it...
For info, I generally throw Roc or Wasp for 240'-300', DX-Beast, Champ Orc, Teebird (may soon be Sabre) or Firebird for anything longer, depending on wind.
It'd be awesome if the Blaze was a disc between these two groups, I have issues with over throwing holes, and it does say "Mid to Long" on the stamp...



I find the Blaze to be an overstable mid-long range driver. It's like a Sabre with a strong fade. That also makes it shorter for me than a Sabre.

I use Element and Element-Xs for most anything 240'-300' (depending on the ceiling), the Sabre after that and then Vikings, Illusions and Spirits after that (I'm still trying to figure out the Illusion as well). I have an S Blaze that I use for midrange headwind, midrange stronger hyzer shots, "tweener" headwind and "tweener" stronger hyzer shots. I've started experimenting with it as a sidearm approach disc as well. Mine is broken in to the point where it flies like a Sabre during the high speed portion of its flight but then hyzers out at the end. It holds a great hyzer line and won't tombstone into the ground like some overstable discs. Out of all the stuff I use it for, headwind shots are the most common. Basically, it covers all the shots where my Element, Element-X and Sabre fall short (figuratively, not literally).

It's similar to the Sabre in that if you want to get more distance out of it, you definitely need more height. It's kind of nice because I know that if I throw a Sabre with a more line drive trajectory I'll only get 300'-315' or so, but if I throw throw it higher I can get out to 350' or so. Because the Blaze hyzers out farily strongly at the end the distances are shorter, but that's good because that makes it more useful for midrange type distances with a headwind. The strong hyzer also means that it's a very predictable disc, once you know what it will do.

I also really like it because it seemed to break in sort of quickly at the beginning (for a Gateway disc) but hasn't changed it's flight much after that dispite taking in more damage.

Like I said before, I'm still trying to figure out my Illusion, too. The one I have is a 'H' and right now it works great into a headwind but is still a bit too overstable for me for a straight shot. I'm going to attempt to break it in more to see if I can get it to fly like it does now in a headwind during calm conditions. I think it will be great then. I do know that it likes to be thrown low and pretty nose down. It isn't very forgiving when it comes to nose angle.

The Blaze is perfect for shots where the ElementX is too short and Illusion/Spirits are too long....a perfect tweener!

As far as Illusions go, the more the break in, the friendlier they are...eventually you can even throw them like you described your Orc...big tall anhyzer...but they are best on a low flip up IMO.

My thoughts exactly with the low flip up, only with the E Spirit, which is slightly beat up to do that. Also when it comes out, the scream (or so i hear), is gonna be that perfect tweener disc. I have E blazes in my bag right now for fairway shots and a CE Blaze for the wind driver when i cant go to far (Spirit when I need Distance).

Bruce,
I have had luck using a new H Illusion for long low tunnel shots with natural hyzer. There's a hole on my home course where the hyzer line is through a gap no more than 6 feet high. If I can hit the gap, the Illusion will go the whole way to the pin, never getting more than 4-6 feet off the ground. I never would have thought it possible, but Dave said to try it and it works! Pretty cool to see too, when I can hit that darn gap. :o
After breaking in, the illusions are a good hyzer-flip to anhyzer disc.

My E blazes act differently depending on weight. My 171 is a very straight, tee bird like disc, with little fade at the end. Nearly flippy into a headwind. At 177, the E blaze is very overstable for me.

Between the sabre and blaze, for me the sabre has slightly more high speed turn, which makes it a good disc for tight-s shots, essentially straight. Whereas the blaze is good for very straight to hyzer-fade at the end shots.

---
Dave, are there any new E wizards yet?!?! I'm jonesing for some in the mid 170s!

Peace

I second that motion for new E wizards, im currently using a 170, and would love a new 175.

I was doing my e-bayin and managed to win something labeled as a prototype demon. Here's a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7157406830

Anyone able to provide me with more info on what this disc is?

Pat

I was doing my e-bayin and managed to win something labeled as a prototype demon. Here's a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7157406830

Anyone able to provide me with more info on what this disc is?

Pat



Very stiff plastic. It is probably in the G5i mold which is the more overstable version. But beat it in a little and you can throw it straight for 300 ft or more.

Looks like a scout with the word demon on the scout stamp, cant tell though cause theres only a pic of the top.

Demon and Scout are the same disc just in different plastics. Just like the putter, chief, and wizard were the same disc but in different plastics.

Well, when I get it, I'll figure out what it is and throw some better pics of it up.

incorect unless they were using the G plastic back then and hadn't named it...I have some PROTO DEMONS..red and they even state that on the sticker on the bottom...

just like the Apache, Blaze, Warrior and the few others back then...from one of the first few years on the GDS tour..

I have a pic of a true proto if you want to see it

I have a pic of a true proto if you want to see it



Sure, e-mail to me: pat@erley.org

Pat

Yeah, its just an early Demon...but they are some of the best Demons, so its all good.

The protos had a very basic GDSTour stamp....I'll post a picture on here eventually.

Throw it and enjoy its predicatbleness!!! (SP?)

Justin's coming to the Bluegrass Open - any other GDS throwers out there coming?

Demon and Scout are the same disc just in different plastics. Just like the putter, chief, and wizard were the same disc but in different plastics.


That was my point but you brought it across much more clearly. You get an A for syntax.

Actually only partially incorrect. The way to tell a proto is that protos have no engraving in the mold (there's no raised lettering on the back of the disc). It's quite possible that this one is a proto. I have at least 2 protos with that stamp though most of the ones I have were stamped with the old GDS Tour logo that Discin mentioned.

I have been approaching/putting with an S wizard for the better part of the last three years. This past winter I broke my wizard and for a time had trouble getting a replacement. In this time (2-3 months) I tried several other putters including the aviar, aviar-x, omega ap, and several different challengers. Finally I got another wizard, and now after using it again for a couple of months I really realized that nothing else comes close to the flight of the Wizard. So turn resistant, yet so straight, and it still has great glide. This realization, along with the perfomance of my current distance molds in the wind, has once again peaked my curiosity towards Gateway. With this new found enthusiasm I went to my local store. I was hoping to get an E spirit, H illusion, E Sabre, and E blaze, as well as E element and elementx. Unfortunately the only things on my list the store had were an E Sprit (green 176g), and an E Sabre(milky white 176g)(Gateway has little exposure in my area).

I was throwing the E spirit last year for a bit, eventually moving in another direction. I remember it fondly, and with more armspeed this year I thought I may like it even more. I took my new one out and it was sweet as an overstable disc, pretty much outperforming my Firebirds, Monsters, and Flicks in every way. Thrown low and flat it was pretty similar to these discs, but when throw with a touch of anhyzer essentially at the ground it would hold a low, tight S curve and outdistance each of the other discs. At this point I decided that I did indeed want to add this disc to my bag as my primary bad-[I'm a potty-mouth!] overstable disc. I also decided to pick up another (same run and weight), and to start breaking one into more of a distance disc.

I took my original spirit out the field and threw about 20-30 thumbers nearly as high as I could and letting them crash down 200' away. This seemed to wear it very evenly and uniformly (as well as wearing me out pretty evenly :D). This morning I took it out to the course and it flew really well, essentially like a faster Tsunami, getting out to about the distance of my 2nd tier distance drivers (tsunami, ch. teebird), very predictably with no turnover in the flight, just straight line and moderate fade. I imagine if I break it in about that much again it will probably be a true distance flyer. I really like the E Spirit all in all and could see carrying three of them in my bag at different stages. I would also love to have a clear one. That being said, is it really worth it for me to mess with the illusion? What will it do that a Spirit in some stage of wear will not?

I have much less enthusiasm for the E Sabre I have. The plastic is really soft, almost too soft. When I throw this disc off the tee it flips. I throw it will good mechanics and it still flips. I tried giving it hyzer and more height, and it still flipped. I gave it to one of my friends who has less arm speed and it flies straight for him. For me it was flippier than a Buzz or Z Storm, even flippier than a Ch. Panther. Was this milky white E run a fluke?

What other discs should I seek and how can I get them? I really like the E/H blend of the Spirits and I imagine the Blaze would be very slow to break in in this plastic, and it sounds like an interesting disc to me. I have read comments by experienced players on this thread praising the E Sabre, and my armspeed is not extreme, so I imagine maybe the clear ones are more stable? Any info from anyone with experience/knowledge would be helpful because I am really excited about trying more Gateway, but I am in an area very much ingrained with the the other two companies. No one I know has different Gateway molds for me to try...

Glad to hear you like the Spirit! As you have seen first hand, the Spirit is a disc that most people don't know they like yet!!!

As far as the "E" Sabre goes, those milky white ones are the best ones IMO...all of the new clear/opaque ones are soft like that...David is going to try and get them a little stiffer in the future, but for now they are all like that. I have decent arm speed, and its hard for me to flip them, but I have seen Justin flip them, so its possible. For you, its probably going to be best as a long midrange versus a driver. Thrown like a midrange, they get decent distance...not as much as say the Spirit, but more so than a Roc or Element. Kinda a tweener disc.

Glad to hear you are enjoying Gateways discs! Post any other questions you may have, and I'm sure someone will answer!

You shouldn't be flipping the NEWER sabres no matter how much arm speed you have. They are kinda like what a wizard would be as a driver because they are "turn resistant, yet so straight, and it still has great glide" but you can do a lot with is. I have very high arm speed and I have no problem controling this disc in fact it is my go to for shots under 460'. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

You shouldn't be flipping the NEWER sabres no matter how much arm speed you have. They are kinda like what a wizard would be as a driver because they are "turn resistant, yet so straight, and it still has great glide" but you can do a lot with is. I have very high arm speed and I have no problem controling this disc in fact it is my go to for shots under 460'. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Yeah, I agree....these are very hard to flip over.

I recently came across a bunch of Gateway stuff and here is my list of "must try" discs (I'm guessing you're better than me so keep that in mind):

S Wizard - you already know that, though.
E Wizard - it's been windy here lately so I've been using it a lot. Flexes out of stuff most putters won't but is still floaty.
E Element - finesse midrange. Super straight with little effort.
S Element-X - breaks in so slowly. Like an E Element that fades. Handles power better than the Element.
S Blaze - Covers everything the Element, Element-X and Sabre have trouble with. Breaks in really nicely too. (I haven't thrown the E).
E Sabre - I like mine. Perhaps you got a weird one. I have both the milky white ones and a clear bluish one and they're pretty similar. It's already kicked the Pro TL out of my bag and has its eye on the QJLS next.
E Spirit - again, you already know about this one. Low, fast, overstable but controllable.

The only thing I would add to that list would be an "H" Illusion...they fly really REALLY far!!

You shouldn't be flipping the NEWER sabres no matter how much arm speed you have. They are kinda like what a wizard would be as a driver because they are "turn resistant, yet so straight, and it still has great glide" but you can do a lot with is. I have very high arm speed and I have no problem controling this disc in fact it is my go to for shots under 460'. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Wow. I either got a weird one or I'm doing something wrong. So...I should be able to throw it like a Buzz or a Roc? I'll have to give it another try.

Hey Dave I think I found some NIKE SPIRITS. :D:D

I have a milky white one, im not sure if these are the new ones your talking about, but I can flip it if I torque it enough, or are you talking about clear ce?

No they are older green ones. :D

I have a milky white one, im not sure if these are the new ones your talking about, but I can flip it if I torque it enough, or are you talking about clear ce?



Those milky ones are the same plastic as the clear ones, jsut with some colorant added....they fly the exact same and I still refer to both as clear "E" plastic.

And yeah, if you torque them they might turn, but with even a semi-clean release they fly dead straight then fade at the end.

I don't know what Matt was talking about :confused: but yeah, older non-opaque/clear ones torque over way easier.

Yea I just got one of those, probably my most favorite new disc. They're like elements on steroids, one disc does pretty much everything u need. Anhyzers, hyzer flips, rollers, straight shots, slow turns, S curves you name it, and imo a beat up E spirit is gateways secret weapon for hyzer flips and huge D.

I have 2 Spirits. A 'H' and an 'E'. I get better results out of the 'E' one becasue the 'H' one is actually more overstable. Is this how spirits work? Forgive me for my ignorance, i've only thrown Innova the past year or all my disc golf career. And with Innova, the higher quality plastic within a certian mold, the more overstable the disc is. (minus those sucky new 'Pro' discs)

it might depend on how much one tunes it in

RDG,

Yes, IME, the new E spirits are less overstable than the new H spirits of similar weight. I think it might be because the H spirits cool to have more dome. Keep that H spirit for headwind shots, and beat up that E spirit until it can flip up from hyzer. Once beat in, the E spirit can easily been one of the longest discs out there.

FYI: they are both almost virgins. Never hit a tree, road or hard surface with either. THat's why i thought it was wierd, but the extra dome on the H explains it. Right now the H Illusion (the sickest fastest disc out there) is my longest disc. It has whooped on my ORC. And now, the ORC is crowering under my bed. But i can see how a beat-in E Spirit will be longer than that Illusion.

Thanks for the info.


ALSO, i love the Demon!! Why does it seem that this disc is underused in the field of midranges? I had a HUGE problem throwing midranges. (Rocs, Buzzzs, Wasps, etc.) But with the Demon and the Blaze i feel so comfy throwing my midis. And the element and the element for the shorter controlled turn stuff.

Is the demon only avail. in S plastic because it would be too heavy in other plastics?

I have a milky white one, im not sure if these are the new ones your talking about, but I can flip it if I torque it enough, or are you talking about clear ce?



Those milky ones are the same plastic as the clear ones, jsut with some colorant added....they fly the exact same and I still refer to both as clear "E" plastic.

And yeah, if you torque them they might turn, but with even a semi-clean release they fly dead straight then fade at the end.

I don't know what Matt was talking about :confused: but yeah, older non-opaque/clear ones torque over way easier.


He was replying to me so I though he was talking about NIKE spirits. :D

I gotcha. :D

Right now the H Illusion (the sickest fastest disc out there) is my longest disc. It has whooped on my ORC. And now, the ORC is crowering under my bed.



Hell yeah, they are FAST and LONG! More people would be rocking these things if they only gave them a chance!!


Is the demon only avail. in S plastic because it would be too heavy in other plastics?



You got it right. There have been some runs of "H" Demons in the past, but they flew nothing like their "S" counterparts. Lucky for us "S" plastic lasts so long!

...Lucky for us "S" plastic lasts so long!



i think this may have been the BIGGEST culture shock of them all when i started throwing Gateway discs. that their 'S' plastic (compareable in price to Discraft's 'D' and Innova's 'DX') only gets better when it gets beat in. it's cheaper becuase it costs less to produce, not because of the quality of the plastic. i would never have a piece of D or DX in my bag (other than a Aviar P&A) because they are so inconsistant.

Even though I do the gateway thing the only DX disc I would use would be a beast. :D:D

I got my E Spirit out over 400' today in a headwind. This disc is sweet. The wind today was steadily over 20mph and this was the only distance driver I used in most situations. I birded a 360' hole with a left to right cross/headwind throwing the Spirit low and on a slight hyzer. Any other driver would have gotten pushed to the ground showing its top to the wind, but the Spirit defied what I thought to be a fundamental principle of disc flight!

Anyway, no one has said much regarding one of my earlier questions: What is the difference between an illusion and a spirit that are tuned to more or less the same stability?

The spirit gets more glide but is slower and I would use it in no wind situations and the illusion it slight winds.

Im glad someone else on this board realizes how much potential the demon has, its a specialty disc but its soo great.

I got my E Spirit out over 400' today in a headwind. This disc is sweet. The wind today was steadily over 20mph and this was the only distance driver I used in most situations. I birded a 360' hole with a left to right cross/headwind throwing the Spirit low and on a slight hyzer. Any other driver would have gotten pushed to the ground showing its top to the wind, but the Spirit defied what I thought to be a fundamental principle of disc flight!

Anyway, no one has said much regarding one of my earlier questions: What is the difference between an illusion and a spirit that are tuned to more or less the same stability?



Its so nice to be able to rely on a 400' toss in winds where everyone else is only getting like 325' worth of turnover from their Orc! :o

ALSO, i love the Demon!! Why does it seem that this disc is underused in the field of midranges? I had a HUGE problem throwing midranges. (Rocs, Buzzzs, Wasps, etc.) But with the Demon and the Blaze i feel so comfy throwing my midis.

Is the demon only avail. in S plastic because it would be too heavy in other plastics?



I just killed my demon on our new course yesterday. (Nasty Woods) Only the second disc i've ever killed. I really expected the disc to last a little longer. (I got it two weeks ago) Has anybody else has problems cracking their Demons? I want to order a bunch more because they are teh best disc for midis. But if i have to use a new one every other week, it could get old pretty quick. Ya know?

You must have just gotten a fluke with that demon, cause I have never had a Gateway disc break on me before ever. Was it soft or rigid? I had a demon in my bag for two years that was all sorts of beat up but never cracked. I would be willing to guess that if you got another 1 this would not happen again anytime soon.

RDG,
I have never heard of a demon ever breaking.
What color and what stamp was on it?

I've been throwing the same Demon for over 6 months. The flight plate is warped, the whole thing is a bit taco'd, there are rock marks everywhere, but it's never cracked. I'd say try another, it should hold up amazingly. McCray has Demons that are 4+ years old

My Spirit was wicked in the wind today! Into a 15 mph headwind it flew like my Orc on a still day. No disc has been able to do this for me. Now about that pea green color...it makes me break out into a sweat at least three times around when I don't immediately recognize where my disc is lying out in the open grass!

Now about that Sabre...After talking with you guys on this thread the other day I decided to take the other E Sabre we had in the store to see in the first one was a fluke, if it is just me, or something else altogether. It was milky white 176, just like the original. It flew no different. I have an extremely hard time imagining Scooter throwing this disc 400'+ because I can't keep it stable. This disc is nothing like a Teebird, and is more like an XL. It flips if I snap it WHATSOEVER. I can keep my Qmega stable for longer. I just don't get it. Does anyone have an E Blaze they want to trade for a barely thrown 176g E Sabre? I'd really like for someone else that throws Gateway to try this disc and let me know if it is normal or not. I really wanted to learn to throw this disc, but I'm ready to give it up. Even from a standstill it flips for me. I can't believe people are talking about not even being able to flip this disc at all, it is just not the same disc as I am throwing. I throw 450' at the absolute max and only average around 400' with my distance drivers, so I know it is not because I just have too much power.

My Spirit was wicked in the wind today! Into a 15 mph headwind it flew like my Orc on a still day. No disc has been able to do this for me. Now about that pea green color...it makes me break out into a sweat at least three times around when I don't immediately recognize where my disc is lying out in the open grass!

Now about that Sabre...After talking with you guys on this thread the other day I decided to take the other E Sabre we had in the store to see in the first one was a fluke, if it is just me, or something else altogether. It was milky white 176, just like the original. It flew no different. I have an extremely hard time imagining Scooter throwing this disc 400'+ because I can't keep it stable. This disc is nothing like a Teebird, and is more like an XL. It flips if I snap it WHATSOEVER. I can keep my Qmega stable for longer. I just don't get it. Does anyone have an E Blaze they want to trade for a barely thrown 176g E Sabre? I'd really like for someone else that throws Gateway to try this disc and let me know if it is normal or not. I really wanted to learn to throw this disc, but I'm ready to give it up. Even from a standstill it flips for me. I can't believe people are talking about not even being able to flip this disc at all, it is just not the same disc as I am throwing. I throw 450' at the absolute max and only average around 400' with my distance drivers, so I know it is not because I just have too much power.



Sounds like there is a lot of turbulance in your release.

Sounds like there is a lot of turbulance in your release.



Then why is this not apparent when I throw other discs? I can throw my Qmega 330'+, and I don't think the E Sabre should be any touchier, so I don't think there is a problem with my basic throwing motion. There is no visible wobble or abrupt disc movement out of my hand to speak of. The disc feels good in my hand (fairly similar dome/rim depth to other molds I throw). I know when I first started throwing my champion shark I had a litte turbulence on my release that was apparent out of my hand. It soon smoothed out, but with the Sabre I see no off-axis torque. I even focused on going through my throwing motion completely smooth at about 60% power and the disc would still fly like it was about to turn out. I may not throw in perfectly yet, but my release does not seem to sufficiently explain why this disc will not fly stable for me.

I just don't see how this disc is flipping on you because they are more resistan to turning over than orcs,teebirds,and even crushes. :confused: :confused:

I just don't see how this disc is flipping on you because they are more resistan to turning over than orcs,teebirds,and even crushes. :confused: :confused:



It is surely frustrating. I'm going to keep working with it. I'm hoping it is just turbulence. If not I'm going to eventually get this disc is someone else's hands to see if it is the disc. I throw Wizards and agree that the Wizard is more turn resistant than Orcs, Crushes, etc. This is what I want out of my E Sabre, its simply not happening. :confused:

the "E" wiz and "e" sabres are very similar in flight except the distance. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Hey Dave, any news for us on the Scream yet? Any proto's out there with the pro's? Let's hear some feedback...if there is any.

the "E" wiz and "e" sabres are very similar in flight except the distance. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



I just took my E (what's the difference between "e" and "E"?) Sabre out to the field. I think I'm starting to get it a little more. It was still windy, but I was getting it to fly a lot better. I noticed a few things. First, this disc does not damper off-axis torque at all. I think that this was my main problem to begin with. Even though I could not see any wobble, that did not mean my releases were perfect. I snap pretty hard, so even a little slippage in some part of my grip could probably have made the disc orient itself a little different after release, and then it just would hold the line it was on, which for me was flipped over. That brings me to the second thing I noticed: this disc is nose angle sensitive, but in the opposite direction as a high speed driver. In other words this disc favors a nose-neutral release rather than a nose-down release. I even throw my Buzz and Shark nose-down, so I naturally was throwing the Sabre nose down. This made the disc turn, where as my Champion Shark and Crystal Z Buzz would just just ride straight with the nose down (as will a new Wizard). This should be a cool feature to have in my bag once I figure it out some more. Now I need to find an E Blaze because there is a slot in my bag that I think it will be well-suited for.

Disc speed,
I think you have found one of the answers to the new E sabres. Try throwing mostly subtle hyzer releases slightly nose up or just FLAT, with max power and you will eventually find the beauty of the New E sabres.
Being flatter than those in the past they take lot more power to flip from hyzer release to turn, but the nose still needs to be flat not nose down.
The biggest change in the flight of the NEW E sabres is they can be thrown much lower to the ground and as long as the nose is flat and thrown with a touch of hyzer they shouldnt flip up past stable and will hold that line the entire length of the flight with very little fade if any!
If you like or prefer nose down The Blaze will fill in that gap.
We just ran E wizards again for the 1st time in a while.
Most are a little more firm than the E sabres but still soft and kind of gummy to grip.
The surface is still very smooth so they are pretty beefy in terms of stability.
We also ran about 300 "SUPER GLOW" Wizards in E which is a first for us.
They fly the same as the new E wizards but have a little more grip on the surface.

When will these E Wizards be available for purchase, and from where? Thanks

When will these E Wizards be available for purchase, and from where? Thanks



Should be soon since they have already been ran and you can just call the shop to get them.

Cool !!!!!! send me a few. 175 grams. :D

Call into the shop because I can't get you these.

Disc speed,
I think you have found one of the answers to the new E sabres. Try throwing mostly subtle hyzer releases slightly nose up or just FLAT, with max power and you will eventually find the beauty of the New E sabres.
Being flatter than those in the past they take lot more power to flip from hyzer release to turn, but the nose still needs to be flat not nose down.
The biggest change in the flight of the NEW E sabres is they can be thrown much lower to the ground and as long as the nose is flat and thrown with a touch of hyzer they shouldnt flip up past stable and will hold that line the entire length of the flight with very little fade if any!
If you like or prefer nose down The Blaze will fill in that gap.
We just ran E wizards again for the 1st time in a while.
Most are a little more firm than the E sabres but still soft and kind of gummy to grip.
The surface is still very smooth so they are pretty beefy in terms of stability.
We also ran about 300 "SUPER GLOW" Wizards in E which is a first for us.
They fly the same as the new E wizards but have a little more grip on the surface.



I totally second what David is saying...I love the fact that I can throw Sabres over stuff on a high line with out sacrificing any distance!!

We will stamp some of the E wizards on Tuesday and they should be ready to ship.
There was a small problem with the Evolution wizard stamp so we will be making a new one and we will stamp the rest when we get the stamp made.
A local vendor came by the shop last night and bought up quiet a few of the E and "GLOW" E Wizards, ( We put some Grateful Dead stamps on them)He just called and said he already sold 5 this morning.
I doubt they last until we run them again so for those who want them I wouldnt wait too long.
We will be working on the Illusion Next( It's the most difficult of our molds to run in the H and E) and hopefully the Scream after that.

Sounds good to me!

I'll be putting in another order this week as well!! (i need a couple demons for sure!!) This will probably happen on THursday (when i get paid!) but i'll throw some bones at you guys and you just have to chuck some plastic from the loop to Toledo for me! thanks for the great stuff again Dave!!!

--Deuce

RDG,
Remind ud about that demon and we will throw an extra one in for you.

The sick thing is that it stills flies with a cracked wing!!

**** stable pig it is!!

that says something about the plastic for sure!
if you can break a midrange and still throw it 300 feet witha flat tire....

I have an proto edge. It is very overstable. I have been told it's a speed demon. Can anyone tell what it is? :confused:

I have an proto edge. It is very overstable. I have been told it's a speed demon. Can anyone tell what it is? :confused:



Its a Speed Demon...the name was changed for a few reasons...none of which are important here.

Scream??????????????

I ordered 2 E glow wizards from the store today along with an E element and some S wizards to putt with. I can't wait until I get them. I'm really grooving on the E sabre now. It is by far the most effortless disc for straight distance in my bag right now. Every time I walk down the fairway to my drive with this disc it is farther than it looked from the tee. Now that I am learning to throw this disc I am really excited about Gateway again in general. This E plastic is awesome! I can't wait until I get my wizard in this plastic. For grip and flight that milky white E plastic might be my favorite yet. I got an H Illusion today and I am about to take it into the field to test it and probably throw a few thumbers to break it in. I'm looking forward to throwing the E element as well, although I was really hoping to get an E element x, but I guess the shop was out. Back to the field again...

Did you get the discs yet?
I am pretty sure there are a few H elemnt X's,
they are pretty close to the E.

Not yet, I'm hoping tomorrow. I just picked up an E element-x (178) from Larry Labond. The plastic is strange compared to the other types of E I've thrown, really stiff. I really had fun throwing it today. I'm still getting used to the grip, but I had some really good throws with it today. For the amount of low speed overstability the disc has, it is very medium and high speed stable. I threw it a couple of times high and nose down and it just flew straight on a left to right line with almost no fade. I'm waiting on the order from the shop as well as an S and E blaze (which I still have never thrown) that I acquired in a trade, so I'm pretty excited about messing around with all these new discs this weekend.

I don't know if you Gateway wants to here this, but here is a design improvement to your bags.

The last month or so my frames have been falling apart. The bars and the widget that holds it into the sideboard have been coming out. It seems like the movement of the bag, it falling over, etc has stretched the holes in the sideboard enough where the widget doesn't stay in too well.

Anyway, to prevent this happening from others in the future, could y'all put little screw on caps on the ends of the widgets? That way when you assemble the frame you can screw on the cap on the exterior of the frame and it will keep the widget from moving.

Does what I am saying make sense?

Will

I have a revolution bag, with a revolution frame and it has been falling apart on me, so I think giving gateway ideas to make their frames more durable is a very good idea. If I found out that gateway makes more durable frames than revolution I'd definitely buy a gateway bag. Next time I buy a bag, I'll buy gateway anyway though cause I want the backpack bag.

Thanks for the advice, we have considered putting caps on the connectors to hold them in place.
Some people are very hard on bags while others like me have never had a bag or frame fail for any reason.
In case you didnt know the "widget" that holds the pvc pipes is an electical pipe connector, Have you found a cap that will fit it?
They are not avaialable where we buy the pipe and connectors.
Let me know if you find something that fits,

I hear our bags weigh 2-3 lbs less than the revolution bag.
I have never really looked that close at one yet alone the frame inside of one.
I know that we offer wholesale pricing on our bags for distributors and that they do not.

We have improved on the back pack and all of our bags every single season.
The dual straps on the back pack work very well as there is reinforcment on the back of the bag that holds it in shape.
You dont have to look for the other strap when trying to get it on your other shoulder.

We have just finished our G-Shock 4 point harness.
They are every bit as good as the quad shock and should cost less money. They have 4 Metal clips that clip on and off of our 4 metal D-rings very easy.
There is also adjustments at the top buckles and bottom buckles to adjust the way it fits on your back.
The new design also makes the bag rest squarely up against you body for comfort. You can hardly tell the thing is on your back until your drink ( BEER ) spills out when you try throwing with it on :D!!

We have just finished our G-Shock 4 point harness.
They are every bit as good as the quad shock and should cost less money. They have 4 Metal clips that clip on and off of our 4 metal D-rings very easy.
There is also adjustments at the top buckles and bottom buckles to adjust the way it fits on your back.
The new design also makes the bag rest squarely up against you body for comfort. You can hardly tell the thing is on your back until your drink ( BEER ) spills out when you try throwing with it on :D!!



Dave,
Are the quads ready for purchase yet? Last time I check with Justin several months ago, they were not available...

If they are not available yet, do you have an estimate on when they will be available? I've been putting off the new bag waiting for the G-quads.

Peace,
Steve

The G shock 4 point harnesses wont be ready to ship for a few more weeks, we just finished the protyping last week.

I know this question hasnt been asked , but since I posted it on another thread I thought I would post it here.
What makes Gateway discs different from others?
For those who are not looking close enough at the discs.
The slightly convexed wing of the Illusion was also another innovation of presedence by Gateway,It is about a year ahead of, Discraft, who has the venom and inova with the sidewinder, who are going in the direction of convex wings rather than flat or concave. This makes higher speed discs easier to climb from hyzer release for players with less power( velocity and rotation)
*
The sabres are also quite different in design, the flight plate is a little over .080 thick while most innova drivers are around .070,( mid-range discs usually have the thicker flight plates) which will make the spin a little more centrifugal and less Gyroscopic, which = less fade on deceleration!
*
The wizards wing is also convexed and it is nearly 4 years old! The main idea of the wizard was to design a disc that had the same amount or equal, air deflection over and under the nose or leading edge.
The result is that the wizard has the same stability and lift at 20 mph as it does at 50,
Also the wizards flight plate is .060 thick for the 4-1/2" in the middle ( thinnner) which will give it better feel between thumb on top and fingers underneath.
Sabres, Blazes, Demons and wizards all increase their flight plate thickness to over .100 1" before the shoulder or where the wing starts, this innovation gives the discs more of a solid structure keeping them from bending out of shape so easy.
All of our discs have very revolutionary designs, most need a closer look to understand their significance in performance.

Now back to the secret labrotory 3 stories below below ground under my house
David,,,,

PS
It's amazing how a little competition in this industry can help improve the products

I here Nike is getting a little interested in Disc Golf.
In fact I know they are :cool:

The "wing" I think of as the area of the disc opposite from where it is held; what are you specifically referring to as the "wing"? So I can look closely enough at it. One interpretation of "convexed wing" [besides "every"] might be the X-clone, but that doesn't seem to fit your timeline. :confused: What is a "Wing", and what is a "Convexed Wing"?

The wing is where the concave is...and a convexed wing is one that "bubbles" out rather than curving in. Look and feel an Illusion, and it will all make sense. The Wizard too BTW.

I am talking about the underside of the wing from the leading egde (or parting line) to the bead on the bottom of the wing!
Think of looking at a crosssection of a disc, like in our last AD in DGWN.

Dave...how about an update on the scream?!

If you look back on page 81, dave says that once he finishes the E wizards (which he has) he was going to do some more illusion runs, then run the scream.

He ran some Ilusions last week I think. :D

It's amazing how a little competition in this industry can help improve the products

I here Nike is getting a little interested in Disc Golf.
In fact I know they are :cool:



Can't wait for BIG MONEY to be coming our way!! This will send the technology and delevopment SKY-ROCKETING!!

David buddy, thanks again for all your 'outside the box' designs. disc golf is heading the right way.

Do you know what exactly NIKE is planning on doing?

Thanks again David,

--Justin

BTW: my order has been delayed due to a low paycheck this week and a ticket!! no worries, its still coming!!

He ran some Ilusions last week I think. :D



If that's the case, then :eek: the scream should be run soon. :)

The Screw caps you seek are available at Lowes or Home depot and cost about $2 or less for a 4 pack. Look in the electrical conduit section and you'll find them next to the steel nuts. They are used primarily for holding electrical boxes to the pvc conduit for decks and exterior electrical hook-ups. I have a package here but no UPC or item number.

Dave,

Thanks for making the glow e wizards! They're great... I'm also really like the glow S wizards as well.

Erick

Erick,
Looks like you may have to change your profile, if those Wizards are in the lineup.
Thanks for the compliments!

Thanks for the reminder!!! *changing lineup in profile*

It's true! It's true! I think I've officially converted to the wizard from the challenger.

Dave,

Thanks for making the glow e wizards! They're great... I'm also really like the glow S wizards as well.

Erick


Dave gave me a Glow "E" Wiz when I stepped off the train and I like it becuase it has a tacky feel.

Glow Wizards? Hmmm...I would be interested in seeing some of those. Actually, I am interested in seeing all of Gateway's line-up /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Scooter, you better tear it up in KSizzle /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

We are heading out in like an hour but I played a round today and SUCKED/ :confused:

The glow E wizard might be the best disc I've ever thrown. I can throw it accurately and consistently 360' on slight hyzer, straight, or slight anhyzer lines. It holds whatever line I give it and does not flip. It is faster and has more glide than an S wizard. I have not been using any midranges since I got it. I have even been throwing it into headwinds which affect distance, but not really the line its on. I wish I could find a midrange/driver that I liked as well as the wizard. It is the most amazing disc on the market imo.

Regarding the other Gateway discs I've recently acquired:
I'm still working with the E sabre. I can finesse it, but it is still flippy for me if I try to power it at all. It flips quite a bit in flight, so it I throw it high and hyzer it is cool. I have a 175g orange E (opaque) Blaze that I really like so far. It is pretty much a straight flyer for me with a slight left turn at the end with exceptional glide and predictability. It still is touchy for me in strong winds, probably due to the high dome. I can tell that I'm going to like this one.

I am still loving my E Spirits. These discs are amazing and versatile when broken into different stabilities. The combination of speed and glide is unmatched by anything on the market. It is taking a little time to learn exactly how these discs take to different release angles and the different turning lines they follow, but the more time I spend the more amazed I am. I have a heavy green spirit (177), and a lighter blue one (173). They are quite different and both very useful. I could definetely see this disc becoming my main distance driver. I only have one illusion (H, 171g) and I have not been able to figure it out. It feels really light to me and I usually throw it too high or too low. I think I need to try a heavier one. With as much success as I have been having with the Spirit, the illusion has pretty much stayed on the back burner.

In trying to switch over to gateway the biggest challenge I've had so far is the midranges. I have been throwing a Champion Shark (max weight), a Crystal Z buzz(178g), and a champion Gator (175g). The closest gateway discs I could get a hold of at this point were an S Demon (173g), an E elementX (178g), and an E element (178g). The Demon fit right in for the gator, but this is a utility position in my bag that is rarely called upon. I like the flight and feel of my elementX, but it feels too light compared to what I have been throwing. It works great at 3/4 speed, but I like to throw my mids hard and it can't quite take it and hold its line. I think I would love one that weighed over 180g, the heavier the better! My mids are usually my go to discs on windy days where I throw low hyzer flips, so the weight seems to help them penetrate further on this line. Are the heavier ones more overstable? How about the H plastic? I have had pretty much the same results with my E element. It has a great feel and I love the effortlessly smooth flight, good speed, and great glide. That said, I cannot throw it hard without getting too much turn. I can throw it with 3/4 power and have it flip up from hyzer and glide long and straight. I just can't help imagining how a slower turning 184g would feel when I ripped it full power. I'm thinking 400' without fade.

The glow E wizard might be the best disc I've ever thrown. I can throw it accurately and consistently 360' on slight hyzer, straight, or slight anhyzer lines. It holds whatever line I give it and does not flip. It is faster and has more glide than an S wizard. I have not been using any midranges since I got it. I have even been throwing it into headwinds which affect distance, but not really the line its on. I wish I could find a midrange/driver that I liked as well as the wizard. It is the most amazing disc on the market imo.

Regarding the other Gateway discs I've recently acquired:
I'm still working with the E sabre. I can finesse it, but it is still flippy for me if I try to power it at all. It flips quite a bit in flight, so it I throw it high and hyzer it is cool. I have a 175g orange E (opaque) Blaze that I really like so far. It is pretty much a straight flyer for me with a slight left turn at the end with exceptional glide and predictability. It still is touchy for me in strong winds, probably due to the high dome. I can tell that I'm going to like this one.

I am still loving my E Spirits. These discs are amazing and versatile when broken into different stabilities. The combination of speed and glide is unmatched by anything on the market. It is taking a little time to learn exactly how these discs take to different release angles and the different turning lines they follow, but the more time I spend the more amazed I am. I have a heavy green spirit (177), and a lighter blue one (173). They are quite different and both very useful. I could definetely see this disc becoming my main distance driver. I only have one illusion (H, 171g) and I have not been able to figure it out. It feels really light to me and I usually throw it too high or too low. I think I need to try a heavier one. With as much success as I have been having with the Spirit, the illusion has pretty much stayed on the back burner.

In trying to switch over to gateway the biggest challenge I've had so far is the midranges. I have been throwing a Champion Shark (max weight), a Crystal Z buzz(178g), and a champion Gator (175g). The closest gateway discs I could get a hold of at this point were an S Demon (173g), an E elementX (178g), and an E element (178g). The Demon fit right in for the gator, but this is a utility position in my bag that is rarely called upon. I like the flight and feel of my elementX, but it feels too light compared to what I have been throwing. It works great at 3/4 speed, but I like to throw my mids hard and it can't quite take it and hold its line. I think I would love one that weighed over 180g, the heavier the better! My mids are usually my go to discs on windy days where I throw low hyzer flips, so the weight seems to help them penetrate further on this line. Are the heavier ones more overstable? How about the H plastic? I have had pretty much the same results with my E element. It has a great feel and I love the effortlessly smooth flight, good speed, and great glide. That said, I cannot throw it hard without getting too much turn. I can throw it with 3/4 power and have it flip up from hyzer and glide long and straight. I just can't help imagining how a slower turning 184g would feel when I ripped it full power. I'm thinking 400' without fade.



Try a scout or h-Demon, and if that doesn't suit, you might like a CE Blaze, but I think that would be longer than you're expecting for that stable shot. The Element X is great if you throw it the way it wants to be thrown, but people looking for a full power straight rip from Gateway often seem to find a gap between putter and driver until they beat a Demon in for a few weeks.

Hey Dave, I need to make a new order...I keep trying to lose my CE Element, and my H Illusions are beating in faster than I can figure out a way to throw my Spirit without a strong fade at the end. Have the E Illusions had production-run level success since the fabled "puffy" ones, or do I need to keep working on my hyzer flip shots?

Incidentally, I think with...what is it, three clear evolution and one regular Evolution...yeah, I'd say my Blazes should last me for the next five years until I have to renew my PDGA membership again, at least. And that's not counting my freakish understable slate blue Blaze. Unfortunately that one is an Achilles heel right now because as far as I can tell it is nearly unique and practically irreplaceable.

Straight from Dave "There are stilla limited # of H/E blend illusions left so call the shop on monday as early as possible." Later :D

We are heading out in like an hour but I played a round today and SUCKED/ :confused:



What courses have you played yet? Tell Justin to save me a new black Illusion and a Glow "E" Wizard! :D

Thanks Scoot.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, so far the only Gateway discs I don't care for are the Demon mold (just isn't a shot I play much) and...well, actually, that's it, except for the fact that the Illusion seems to be the only disc I really like in S plastic and I'd still rather have H or E.

except for the fact that the Illusion seems to be the only disc I really like in S plastic and I'd still rather have H or E.



I think that's the first time I've heard anyone say something like that. I'm not saying you're wrong to think that, but usually people rave about the "S." Personally, I think the Wizard, Element-X and Blaze are the best in S plastic. I'm also unfortunately growing more and more fond of the Spirit in S, but from what I understand they won't be making those anymore. I get a similar flight out of a recent E Speed Demon so I think I'll be OK.

I tried a bunch of Gateway Discs today...DOPE /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dave,

I was wondering if there was any way I could take advantage of the 5 wizards for $35.00 deal available at the Gateway website, but still choose the firmness of wizards? Who would I contact for that type of order? I recall a few different email addresses being tossed around in this thread, some directly contacting you, others headed to the factory...

And, as a general editorial comment, thanks for the help with the misprint order I made a couple months ago. What great service your company has. Highly recommended. As for the discs, I'm still learning the Spirit and the Illusion, but, as is apparent from my question, the Wizard has become the only putter I trust. What a great disc.

Thanks for your help!

You can call the shop directly, 314-487-5204.

You can specify what you want for the wizards. If you're looking for putters, I would definitely try a medium, soft, and super-soft.

I putt with the super soft, and use the medium for upshots.

Peace

Drew, i have one of each of the different firmnesses (sp??). you can check em out whenever ya want. Hold off on your order though, lets do one together. I just made some huge bubbles in my Illusion, i so i need anew one. and a couple demons!

Deuce, I'm all about a joint order. I'll see you tonight at Parmalee, we can discuss then. And how did you manage to make bubbles? Were you microwaving your illusion?

On a more general note, this is just awesome. In under six hours, I have not only somebody helping me out with a direct number to the store, but a guy who's willing to let me demo the discs.

The Wizard, the only disc that could make me stop lurking and start posting... :)

Gateway has a great staff as well! i was on the phone with Justin (the one who works for Gateway, not me) and he helped me redesign the contents of my bag for like 35 minutes.

i just need some more cash-ola to buy some more plastic.

not to mention ive talked with the man, David Mac himself for at least a hour and a half on the phone. Just great convos about discs. I can't get that kind of mental stimulation talking to Kruse or Michalak (ya know Drew?)

Great staff, great plastic, great company.

(cough)SCREAM?(cough)

The Wizard, the only disc that could make me stop lurking and start posting...



Da Wizahd!!

We have been doing a ton of custom stamps lately, so I know there are plenty of missed stamps around the shop.
We are in the process of moving into a bigger place, right next door to where we are now.
I am bringing all of the discs I have to the new shop.
This includes all old innova and discraft as well as the handfulls I bring home each time I run discs.

We have aslo been tye dying E spirits, Elements and Wizards. We have some pretty cool stuff.

While I'me here I want to let everyone know we will release a new discs soon called the Hybrid.

The new E works so well in the Sabre and blaze , we decided to make a thinner flight plated sabre type disc with a longer slower transition over the top.
It will have the same rim depth and wing length as the sabre/blaze.
It should be really close to a teebird in feel looks and flight.

Does this sound like HYBRID will be a good name?

The Hybrid is a name that can work great if the type of disc matches it...what type of disc will it be?

teebirdish!

just call up the office to order misprints?
thanks

I still like the excalibur, a sabre with a little more (in this case D). But on a different note, these black E Elements are HOT

The Hybrid sounds cool...now where can I get a freak regrind rescue Element like Matt has!? (That thing flies like a Blaze, but with the speed of an Element....its money!!)

Chris,
I actually found a yellowish one today, but I tye dyed it.

I will try and put it aside but cant gaurantee I get back there before it gets bought or shipped out.

Where you still thinking about coming down?

We may all be going to annarbor.
Did you want to go there is we go?
Call me tomorrow on my cell!

Chris,
I actually found a yellowish one today, but I tye dyed it.

I will try and put it aside but cant gaurantee I get back there before it gets bought or shipped out.

Where you still thinking about coming down?

We may all be going to annarbor.
Did you want to go there is we go?
Call me tomorrow on my cell!



Hell yeah, Ann Arbor would be awesome!!! Was pre-reg required? I'll call you tomorrow about it....fingers crossed on the Element!!!

Chris, I didnt get to talk to you in DM, ( Nice Work!) but I checked and I dont have any of the G9-i. I have a Evoloution E-9 that was stamped with G9-i. Sorry. Did you ask Pat?

[quote
Hell yeah, Ann Arbor would be awesome!!! Was pre-reg required?

[/QUOTE]

No, pre-reg wasn't required. But they'd prolly prefer it. THey did wave the $25 late entry fee due to online pre-reg stuff. So you wont have to pay that.

And Dave,

If you do come up, let me know. I'd love to hook up with ya. And bring some discs cause i'd love to buy some w/o shipping!

Chris, I didnt get to talk to you in DM, ( Nice Work!) but I checked and I dont have any of the G9-i. I have a Evoloution E-9 that was stamped with G9-i. Sorry. Did you ask Pat?



Thanks but no thanks on the "E" G9is...the new glow "E" Wizards are just as good as those...I did talk to Pat, and we're going to hook soemthing up sometime, thanks!

Regarding the new molds, is there an estimate of HOW soon they will be run? I'm trying to decide if I can hold off long enough on my next order or not. My CE Element has disappeared from the possession of the person who was trying to return it to me, and my Illusions are beating in too quickly.

While I'me here I want to let everyone know we will release a new discs soon called the Hybrid.

The new E works so well in the Sabre and blaze , we decided to make a thinner flight plated sabre type disc with a longer slower transition over the top.
It will have the same rim depth and wing length as the sabre/blaze.
It should be really close to a teebird in feel looks and flight.

Does this sound like HYBRID will be a good name?



Sounds great to me........ but now for the questions.....

1) When will these be available?

2) Is this the same disc as was going to be the Scream.... or is the Scream also coming out?

3) Any chance of getting a less stable driver for us wienie arms...... like the Innova's Sidewinder or Discraft's Flash?

RD

You can call the shop directly, 314-487-5204.





I tried that number and it is giving me a message about not accepting incoming phone calls. I just want to order up some wizards is all.

You can call the shop directly, 314-487-5204.





I tried that number and it is giving me a message about not accepting incoming phone calls. I just want to order up some wizards is all.



Not sure what the deal is with that, but just email the shop then: Office@GDSTour.com

Someone should be in touch with you within a few days or so after that...I know the shop will be closed Friday through Monday (?) b/c everyone will be a tourney somewhere or other. Hope that helps!

Where moving into a bigger space and we havent plugged the phones back in yet,
We should be back up and running on monday.

Does the coyote look just like and element or what?
Actually it is a little differnt it has a convexed wing like the Wizard :o

The coyote to me looked more like a buzz than anything, but the element stiil rocks way harder!! :eek: Hope to see that Hybrid soon! :cool:

When is the Magic (beadless Wizard) scheduled to be available? I'm really excited to try a few of them as I seem to do better putting with less-overstable discs.

We have at leat 2 models to release before the beadless ( Magic). There are still SOOOOOOOOOO many players who havent even had a chance to see, feel and throw a wizard yet.
We are thinking of maybe factoring the bead off of 1500 or so Wizards and releasing it as a factored wizard.
We just need to make a run of 178's so they will be 175 after we factor them :D

While I'me here I want to let everyone know we will release a new discs soon called the Hybrid.

The new E works so well in the Sabre and blaze , we decided to make a thinner flight plated sabre type disc with a longer slower transition over the top.
It will have the same rim depth and wing length as the sabre/blaze.
It should be really close to a teebird in feel looks and flight.

Does this sound like HYBRID will be a good name?



Sounds great to me........ but now for the questions.....

1) When will these be available?

2) Is this the same disc as was going to be the Scream.... or is the Scream also coming out?

3) Any chance of getting a less stable driver for us wienie arms...... like the Innova's Sidewinder or Discraft's Flash?

RD


Robbie I need some more music.
I fanally got my first ride with a CD player.
Do you have any other TREY? or maybe even some Dead?

[/QUOTE]
Do you have any other TREY? or maybe even some Dead?

[/QUOTE]

Dave,
Check out archive.org!

More live music than you can shake a Wizard at.

Peace

Do you have any other TREY? or maybe even some Dead?

[/QUOTE]

Dave,
Check out archive.org!

More live music than you can shake a Wizard at.

Peace

[/QUOTE]

Dave
check out some of the Xavier Rudd on the archive. The Toronto show is awesome

Robbie I need some more music.
I fanally got my first ride with a CD player.
Do you have any other TREY? or maybe even some Dead?



Dave,

Got plenty of goodies I can send you. Check out some older pics of my little "library" and you'll see what I mean.
http://www.mindspring.com/~goheels/library.html

I don't know if you're familiar with them or not..... but I need to send some Gov't Mule your way.....

Depending on your level of computer geekiness (flac or shn downloading)..... there are a number of ways to download live music for free...... some of my favorites are:

http://bt.etree.org/
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree.php

Give me a ring when you get a chance..... I need to talk with you more about setting up the GDS Tour event..... the new discs...... and the toons.

Robbie

Hey Robbie nice looking collection. There must be something about that Carolina sun that creates major collectors. Your collection is the first I've seen that is on par with my brothers vinyl and cd colletion.

very impressive, and nice way of measuring the amounts. I counted every one of my fathers records and he has 4200+. Thats a bunch as well.

But he only has like 50 CD's. A bit slow on the technology, eh?

very impressive, and nice way of measuring the amounts. I counted every one of my fathers records and he has 4200+. Thats a bunch as well.



Glad you like my little library of music. I thought if would be interesting to put the numbers together based on how much space it takes up. As for the actual counts...... there's over 4000 records, over 2000 cd's (the store bought kind), over 1500 DAT tapes of live music, and I've lost count on the live music cd's..... but it's got to be over 3000 at this point. And I definitely need more space.

Now since this is the Gateway thread....... I can't wait to check out some of the new discs David has cooked up for us!!!!!

yo dave.......still lovin my e plastic blazes and illusions......sick discs.....and where's the new driver at...?

I have just got to sing the praises of the Gateway staff. They are definately very easy to work with! I love every disc from Gateway I have thrown. Now if only we could get someone to carry Gateway discs out here in Idaho.

I am definately looking forward to new plastic from Gateway. Especially this Magic putter, sounds like something I would get into.

Hey Dave M. sorry I missed you when I visited St. Louis last week. I played Jefferson's Brks, then stopped by the shop. Justin set me up with some Wizards, and a few other goodies (at least 4 nice Elements ... I love the glows!)
Got to play two more courses that day, Endicot and St. Peters 1st BC. Ran into Dave (at Little Big Mans lemonade stand), and had a nice chat with him. I really enjoyed the 1st BC course in St. Peters, it was fun.
I also got to play Quail Ridge Park a couple days before that. Nice course ... not a lot of long shots, but it was fun for me and my family ... most of which have never played DG before. They had a great time, and I'm sure they will be playing often now.
I thought the Jeff's Brks course was one of the best I have ever played. But the map is funky (at least there is one!), and the signs were a little tricky to follow. Fortunately, I hooked up with a local and got a tour for more than half of the course. VERY NICE.
Endicot was hard to follow (no maps), but had some fun holes on it. It was so dang hot out there though ... it was all I could do just to finish.
St. Peters was awesome. Love the whole course. Nice baskets. Hole 13 was a little tricky to find, but the rest of it had a very nice flow. lol
Quail Ridge. Very, very nice course. Had a blast. Can't wait to play that one again.
I'm back in CO now, but hope to be back out there when it's a little cooler.
Hope to see you out there when I visit the next time.

So whats your take on the Titans out at St. Peter's? Did you like them?

Yeah, I think they are great! Bright red = really easy to see, and they suck up putts really nice. Very impressed.
Our home course has Discraft baskets, and I like being able to see the baskets from far away, and through the trees ... the Titans are just as easy to see, if not more so. The triple chain rings are brilliant.

Yeah, I think they are great! Bright red = really easy to see, and they suck up putts really nice. Very impressed.
Our home course has Discraft baskets, and I like being able to see the baskets from far away, and through the trees ... the Titans are just as easy to see, if not more so. The triple chain rings are brilliant.



Yeah, thats exactly how I feel about 'em. They're really well behaved on catching good putts...the thicker gauge on the one set of chains doesn't allow hot putts to even get to the pole, and with the triple rings and chain sliddin' goin' on, they catch high putts, that are otherwise good, extremely well!!

Hey David are they still making "S" plastic Spirits? If not are they going to be making them any time soon or are these goners?

David,

Do you have any pictures, and information on the Gateway G-Shock strap system? I'm currently in the market for a Gateway bag, and was considering getting the QuadShocks until I heard about this.

Thanks!

Call the shop and Justin can give you all the details. :D

justin makes good descriptions but a picture would be nice!

I told dave and he will get one on here soon

David, do you have any release dates ready for the Hybrid (Scream?) and Magic?
Have you sent them to PDGA for approval?

David, do you have any release dates ready for the Hybrid (Scream?) and Magic?
Have you sent them to PDGA for approval?



David's one of the bussiest guys I know, so these might not yet be ready, but they'll be worth the wait when they are!

David, do you have any release dates ready for the Hybrid (Scream?) and Magic?
Have you sent them to PDGA for approval?



David's one of the bussiest guys I know, so these might not yet be ready, but they'll be worth the wait when they are!



Have you thrown these discs?

David, do you have any release dates ready for the Hybrid (Scream?) and Magic?
Have you sent them to PDGA for approval?



David's one of the bussiest guys I know, so these might not yet be ready, but they'll be worth the wait when they are!



Have you thrown these discs?



No, but just in conversation, David throws more science at you than high school! That said, these both sound like solid discs. (From David's descriptions)

Too bad my latest order didn't get here in time for the Great Eight...I'm going to have to field my old Wildcat and Talon to cover for my lack of overstable Illusions.

I think we should just call Dave "Mr. Wizard" with all the technical stuff he throws at you when explaining a disc mold
(hehe). Sounds like it will be a while before the disc molds are finished. I am sure as has been said it will be worth the wait. What I am waiting 4 are some E-sabres and Blazes to be run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Dave, Have you ever made a Wizard in the H plastic

H plastic Wizard used to be called the Chief. I have a couple so they were made.

H plastic Wizard used to be called the Chief. I have a couple so they were made.



When they were moving the shop, they found a TON of Chiefs!! If you like them, or want to try them, now is the time...there were tons though, no joke!

I need some illusions!!!!! :D:D:D

I told dave and he will get one on here soon



Dave any update on the G-Shock strap system, pictures? :D

We have the G shocks in stock but they are going fast.
I'm not sure they are on the sire yet but you can call the shop!

We have about 300 left and you more than welcome to get a missed stamped special of 5 for $35 or mix and match with some soft, or medium S if you like!

Hi Dave, I have a question for you, or any other Gateway players ... How does the Blaze compare to the new Z-Storm?

Hi Dave, I have a question for you, or any other Gateway players ... How does the Blaze compare to the new Z-Storm?



I think a better comparison would that the Blaze is a faster Z Wasp...roughly the same stability, just faster/longer.

Chris is right,
I would say when we get some of the softer E in the Element X is would probably be closer to the Z storm.
I have been on the construction crew maike some $$$ the last month or so.
I will be back in the factory for the whole month of august working on the new discs and running E in the older stuff.
We got some plastic to sample from the nike plant and I am excited to see how well it works.

We got some plastic to sample from the nike plant and I am excited to see how well it works.



Did you just say the Nike plant??? As in the Nike that sponsors Tiger Woods???

Chris is right,
I would say when we get some of the softer E in the Element X they would probably be closer to the Z storm.
But then again,
I havent thrown the storm in the Z, But I can usually tell how a disc will fly just from its shape.


I have been on the construction crew making some $$$ the last few months or so.( I have also been designing 2 courses just south of St Louis.
I will be back in the factory for the whole month of august working on the new discs and running E in the older stuff.
We got some plastic to sample from the nike plant and I am excited to see how well it works.

We got some plastic to sample from the nike plant and I am excited to see how well it works.



Did you just say the Nike plant??? As in the Nike that sponsors Tiger Woods???



Yeah, that Nike...I have several Spirits in my bag right now that are made from plastic Nike gave/sold to David. They are by far THE most durable discs I have ever seen!!!

Yeah, that Nike...I have several Spirits in my bag right now that are made from plastic Nike gave/sold to David. They are by far THE most durable discs I have ever seen!!!



What makes the plastic so much different??? Is it still grippy???

I would say when we get some of the softer E in the Element X they would probably be closer to the Z storm.



This excites me...I just recently put the ElementX back in the bag, and have been getting some really cool shots off with it...but again, I would love see it slightly more overstable so it has a nice predicable hyzer finish...the clear/soft "E" plastic should make it do just that...can't wait!!!

more nike plastic is exciting.

dave- what's the eta on the hybrid and/or scream? there was a lot of talk about them a little while back, now it kind of died off.
and do you have pictures of the g-shock straps? or anybody else for that matter. show us the straps!

Ferret,
Are you going to worlds.
Double G garret Gurthie is using them.
I will try and get the pics uploaded to our site soon.

The hybrid is back on schedule for tooling and it should be readyto run soon.

I want to know more about this Nike plastic

agghh worlds. i can't get off work, i don't want to talk about it :mad:
i'll be looking for the pics. thanks

The hybrid is back on schedule for tooling and it should be readyto run soon.



Which one was the Hybrid again, the fast/distance driver or the fairway/control driver?

The Hybrid will be tee birdish, a thinner flight plated sabre with a longer less abrubt, transition over the top.
The scream is closer to the; starfire/orc/beast/valk/viking/flash/crush/avenger series

The Hybrid will be tee birdish, a thinner flight plated sabre with a longer less abrubt, transition over the top.
The scream is closer to the; starfire/orc/beast/valk/viking/flash/crush/avenger series



Gotcha...and which were you planning on tooling/running first?

Hey Pimp...the Nike plastic that Dave got originally was kind of a greenish color. It is nice and grippy, yet very durable. The spirits that were ran in that plastic were probably one of the best disc's a golfer could have asked for. Even better than the blue sparkle tsunami's that you covet so much. I hope that this next batch of plastic that he gets from them is as nice as the first batch. The nike plastic that they had before I think was used for a run of spirits and that's it. Correct me if I am wrong Dave or Chris. I have only seen spirits in that plastic. Sadly...I don't have any more of those disc's. My last one is in the pond at Pickard. Dave...if the plastic is the same as before...please run some illusions in it this time :D

Joe,
That first batch of Nike plastic was too heavy for the Illusions and almost too heavy for the Spirits, that why almost all of them were max weight!
We are getting some slightly different plastic from Nike this time.
It is lighter in weight but really close to the same in the other physical properties, like flexibility and shrinkage.
FYI,
The original Nike Spirit plastic was natural and we colored it green and blue.

I have some questions about the superglow plastic. Is it available in any discs besides the wizards, elements, and element-x's yet? Does it come in e-plastic yet? How much does a superglow disc cost, and...can you give any more info on the type of glow plastic you use? I'm kinda nerdy and just like to understand the science behind it.

Hey David,

While everyone is talking of the Nike plastic, I have a quick question for you. I was wonder what stamp was put on the Nike Spirits, was it a special stamp to signify that it was using a special plastic or were they the standard spirit stamps?
Thanks in advance!!

Jack,
There are E wizards that are superglow and there were some E Spirits.
The superglow is Stronium on the periodic table of elements.
The Stronium is only part of the formula ( the part the Glows) It is very expensive and even more expensive to use in a plastic compound.
There is about $4-$5 worth used in each disc, and they retail for $15 ( it should be at least $20)Nothing else really compares! :cool:

The original Nike Spirits had 1 of 3 stamps and sometimes 2 of the 3.
They were either kelley green, blue or a blue green.
There were about 1000 made and 300 of them went to Texas for a few gdstours in 2004.
They either had the Gerry face, first run spirit bar stamp or the spiked edge gdstour stamp with a star in the middle.
These werent the only spirits with these stamps but I hope this helps.

Chris posted these pics on another thread.
heres the link http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=417578&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

So, is this Nike plastic a joint venture between the two companies, like Nike's getting in the business? Or is it just some plastic that you got from the factory? Thanks.

I have two 170 gram kelly green spirts with the " first run spirit bar stamp". How do I know if they are the Nike? :confused:

As long as they are not pea green then they are most likely the nike ones.
Did you see the pics earlier in the thread?

David ,
any news on the "Hybrid", Scream and "Magic" (Beadless Wizard)? Are any of the molds ready for approval?

I have two 170 gram kelly green spirts with the " first run spirit bar stamp". How do I know if they are the Nike? :confused:



Is it that hard to tell? I don't get how people can't tell...its a uretheyne based "Candy" plastic...picture a Champion/CE/Z/Q type plastic.

I have two 170 gram kelly green spirts with the " first run spirit bar stamp". How do I know if they are the Nike? :confused:



Is it that hard to tell? I don't get how people can't tell...its a uretheyne based "Candy" plastic...picture a Champion/CE/Z/Q type plastic.



That's how 'E' plastic is normally described, too. When you only have one type of disc it's hard to make a comparison. I'm sure it's easy to tell if you have a normal E and a Nike E side by side.

Whats the difference in pea green and kelly green?

I have two 170 gram kelly green spirts with the " first run spirit bar stamp". How do I know if they are the Nike? :confused:



Is it that hard to tell? I don't get how people can't tell...its a uretheyne based "Candy" plastic...picture a Champion/CE/Z/Q type plastic.



That's how 'E' plastic is normally described, too. When you only have one type of disc it's hard to make a comparison. I'm sure it's easy to tell if you have a normal E and a Nike E side by side.



There are no other "E" Spirits that could be mistaken for Nike "E". He's asking about the grippy Pea Green Prolineish "E" from the protos/1st runs.

As far as the difference, Nike Spirits are a little grippier and stiffer on the rim...especially the Blue ones.

Whats the difference in pea green and kelly green?




About three shades.

Got my Wizards today (ordered monday-Great turnaround!) As usual, I'm geeked! Was wondering tho, have you put the raised rear lettering back on the botton since youve thickened the molds flightplate? Because the medium ones I ordered have the lettering now while the others do not. Also, do you know the thickness difference between the old and the new? Is it the same thickness as the raised lettering by any chance? Just curious. Again, Justin is the greatest rep in the biz! He was recomending some other models. But I just got my bag down from 34 to 25 discs ) Im a newb that just had to try everything. Plus, my excuse to my wife is that I need the exersise and carrying a load was good stuff until my Achillies started bugging me. :mad: I would like to try something new after the tourney season is over! Keep up the great work!

David,

I admittedly am a bit of a gateway junkie. Over the last few years, I've learned that squirreling discs you like away is probably a good policy when you find something that you like.

What I'm trying to figure out is where you guys are going with your plastic. So far I've aquired some milky white/floppy/evolution/proline plastic sabres, blazes and elements; some clear blazes and sabres; some sorta stiff glue white evolution elements; and some of the more classic non-clear evolution illusions, wizards, and spirits.

I like to throw mostly evolution, but none of my evolution plastics are quite the same, so I'm trying to figure out what I should buy up/give up on so here's my questions:
Where do you see gateway going with their plastic?
Will there be more runs of the clear blaze/sabres?
Is the proline evolution the future? Is it mainly for the slower discs?
Will there be a wizard in this plastic soon?
what will the scream be run in?

Unreleated: can i get my name on the waitlist for the nike runs? (just kidding........sort of)

If your not sure, that's understandable; but i'd love to know your gut feeling. Thanks a lot for making such a great line of discs.

-Jon

Jon,
We will be producing more and more discs in the Evolution, mostly trying to maintain less shrinkage in the sabre blaze and new hybrid.
The older stuff needs less shrinkage to keep them flatter.
The next generation of Gateway Discs, Scream, Blast, Odyssey will probably be made in the nike stuff, its a little firmer than the milky white/clear stuff we ran a few months ago.
We ran some of the new Nike stuff yesterday in the Illusion.
Good news is the weight is perfect 168-176, the not so good news is they are really flat. The illusion needs at least a little dome for the forward penetration on deceleration and ability to flip up from Hyzer. A little flexing and they will flip up but without the dome, they are hard to get over 400.
I will be trying the same mix in the sabre or Blaze tomorrow and they should be really sweet.
Probably somewhat firmer than the milky white and hopefully just as flat.

We have Wizards in the the same milky white but the need for the weight filler changes the feel and flex a bunch.
We have 2 different flexes in the E wizards, both are fairly overstable and good in the wind and for hyzer up shots.

Jon,
We will be producing more and more discs in the Evolution, mostly trying to maintain less shrinkage in the sabre blaze and new hybrid.
The older stuff needs less shrinkage to keep them flatter.
The next generation of Gateway Discs, Scream, Blast, Odyssey will probably be made in the nike stuff, its a little firmer than the milky white/clear stuff we ran a few months ago.
We ran some of the new Nike stuff yesterday in the Illusion.
Good news is the weight is perfect 168-176, the not so good news is they are really flat. The illusion needs at least a little dome for the forward penetration on deceleration and ability to flip up from Hyzer. A little flexing and they will flip up but without the dome, they are hard to get over 400.
I will be trying the same mix in the sabre or Blaze tomorrow and they should be really sweet.
Probably somewhat firmer than the milky white and hopefully just as flat.

We have Wizards in the the same milky white but the need for the weight filler changes the feel and flex a bunch.
We have 2 different flexes in the E wizards, both are fairly overstable and good in the wind and for hyzer up shots.



I really hope you have good results with the Blaze and Sabre. I think those are two of your better molds. A stiffer E Wizard would be perfect for me too...hint hint. ;)

I'm not sure if you recognize me, but I've been emailng you a bit about some custom discs for our wedding. Do you see this relationship with Nike lasting very long or is it more limited run kind of stuff? Our wedding is near the end of next May and it would be cool to have some discs in this new plastic. All we have to do is recruit a designer to plot out what we want on the discs.

I also talked to the guy who orders discs for the Air Traffic store in Roseville. If you'd like to talk non pubilcally about it just PM me.

Keep up the excellent work!

Scott

Our products have never really been produced in mass quantities. We currently sell about 60,000 discs a year. With that said our ability to advertise and market our discs has been limited to this discussion board, pdga events, gdstour events, local club events and in the hands of our sponsored players.
We already sell discs as fast as we make them in the Evolution plastic!

The newly found interest and increased sales of the Sabre and Blaze in the E plastic showed us a little about our potential to sell products quickly using this type of material.
We will continue to work on the E in these models, while developing new molds based on the Evolution plastic in the future.

As fas as the Nike stuff goes, they use about 3 million lbs of plastic a month.
We are getting some of the experimental stuff as well as remaining inventory of Raw materials from products they no longer produce. We also have a chance at some of their scrap/regrind, and are looking into ways of getting it reformulated into pellets again to meet some of our requirements of weight and flex.
Straight regrind is hard to run in the E type plastic, but can produce some very favorable results in flight!

Hopefully the nike relationship will be a long term thing :cool:

Hopefully the nike relationship will be a long term thing :cool:



Maybe you should call the next disc the "Swoosh".......

Can't wait to try the stiffer E Sabre's.......

Maybe one day there be a swoosh on all of our discs :cool:!

Hey robbie whats that link again to the live shows I can download?
Do you know anything about 700 volt parade?

Dave I'm not Robbie but I'm pretty sure he was talking about

going to db.etree.org or Click here (http://db.etree.org/bs.php) and you can search for certain bands. Any band that is in bold is downlaodable at Live Music Archive (Llama) (http://www.archive.org/audio/etree.php)

I also have lots of other ftp sites that have different types of music available. What kinds of stuff are you interested in.

I told dave and he will get one on here soon



Any details on these things yet? Pictures, Prices, descriptions? I just checked the gds site and nothing there :(

TIA

I was looking for some recent trey stuff and wondering if they have had any 700 volt parade shows yet?

I am having a hard time downloading any of the shows I have found so far.

Dave,

Do you guys have any glow discs?? If not, do you plan on producing any before the end of September??

Thanks
Chris

DAVE,

Try archive.org for live music!

I hope things work out with Nike.

Peace

Dave,

Do you guys have any glow discs?? If not, do you plan on producing any before the end of September??

Thanks
Chris


We have The element and elementX in the superglow right now.
We may also have a few SuperGlow E Wizards.

I picked up a glow Element, and Wizard from Justin when visiting the Gateway shop ... Sweet plastic!

We should be running the Glow putters again sometime soon.
Do you have any other glow discs to compare the brightness and longevity to?

I do, and NOTHING compares to your superglow. When I asked Justin the best way to charge them, he said daylight. I thought he was joking until I took his advice and drove to league with them on my dash (not to hot of day). After leage we do a bit of doubles and its startes to get dark out earlier now. I went back to my car and they were like a couple of glowbugs! They lasted forever with no re-charging! My innovas have to be charged every shot (even when thrown in succession). You can still charge them with UV like all others too! STRONG!

We should run a gdstour Halloween Glow event where each player receives a SUPERGLOW Sabre, Element and Wizard in the players package. That would be really strong!!! :cool:

I'm loving Gateway more the more I work with it.

The Sabre that I liked so much when I got it has become my "do anything" disc. I can't bomb it out there and it is a bit tricky to putt with, but that's about all it can't do.

I'm getting to the point where I could easily imagine playing most courses with just my milky E Sabre, my white (C)E Element, and an E Illusion. Only reason I need the Element is because sometimes I'd rather throw a hyzer and have it flip up a bit than throw the sabre flat.

sign me up! for the glow tourney!
so, you are running illusions in the e plastic?
going to make the spirit jealous

Dave,

The Element S is one of the sweetest mid-ranges i've ever thrown....very nice!

mc

Dave,
Awhile ago I purchased 3 wizards, I have been converted, I won't throw another putter again. I'd like to get my hands on some of the Nike plastic when it becomes available, if that Is a possibility. I'm not sure on the stage of production of the Scream, Blast, Odyssey, but do you know when the flight characteristis will be available. Could you send me a PM when you get the chance, I have a question about course design too. Thanks, and keep up the amazing work.

The Hybrid is the next disc we will release and it is just about ready.
It is a flatter slight more blunt nose sabre ( tee byrdish)
The Scream will be orc. beast/valk starfireish and we hope to start making the mold soon.
It depends on how the Hybrid flies.
The better the Hybrid the more likely we will make a beadless wizard next!

I really like both my 169 and 177 S Element-X's and was wondering how the E Element-X flies in comparison to the S plastic.

There have only been about 2000 E and 1000 H element_x's ran so far.
We hope to experiment with the Nike plastic in the element and element-X sometime in september.
The E and H element-X's that we have ran are much closer to the flight of a KC roc while the regular Element is closer to a san marino or ontario.
Because of the smoother surfaces of the Evolution they will fall left more than the S as well as resist turn more.
Most of the S element-X's we have ran are very flat which isnt the best for long left to right shots.
I use the S for slight hyzer all the way on low ceiling shots.
Players with a lot of power migrate towards the Blaze for their overstable midrange.

so do we have an eta on the hybrid yet? i can't wait to try this disc out...

The tool shape for the Hybrid was cut today, hopefully the polishing will get done in the morning and we can run some after lunch.
We did run some E Sabres today and will be runing them until the Hybrid is ready to run!!
I test flew a few of the colors of the E sabres and they seem to be similiar in stability to the last batch of milky white, maybe a little straighter.
I had a limited area to throw and was only throwing shots around 300-325.
They are not as flat as the Milky white but still flatter than S or the older E.
The runs were made from the same material as the Nike Spirits with the weighting agent added to the mix to get them up to 176. The look and feel awesome and should be getting stamped within the next few days.

The tool shape for the Hybrid was cut today, hopefully the polishing will get done in the morning and we can run some after lunch.
We did run some E Sabres today and will be runing them until the Hybrid is ready to run!!
I test flew a few of the colors of the E sabres and they seem to be similiar in stability to the last batch of milky white, maybe a little straighter.
I had a limited area to throw and was only throwing shots around 300-325.
They are not as flat as the Milky white but still flatter than S or the older E.
The runs were made from the same material as the Nike Spirits with the weighting agent added to the mix to get them up to 176. The look and feel awesome and should be getting stamped within the next few days.



Sounds great! I can't wait to test fly the newer Sabres AND the brand new Hybrid!!! What plastics are you going to be running the Hybrid in intially? And whats the update on Nike plastic in the Element and ElementX?

I have 3 big batches of E ready to go for the Hybrid.
I just need to start running them to find out how heavy the weight should be.
I already know the volume (cubic Cm) but the only real way to tell is to shoot some plastic in and get the mold up and running.

We have several thousand pounds of tthe Nike type plastic coming and should be able to use it in each of our molds except the demon and Illusion

I have 3 big batches of E ready to go for the Hybrid.
I just need to start running them to find out how heavy the weight should be.
I already know the volume (cubic Cm) but the only real way to tell is to shoot some plastic in and get the mold up and running.

We have several thousand pounds of tthe Nike type plastic coming and should be able to use it in each of our molds except the demon and Illusion



Sounds good...I'll have to try and get down there sometime this fall...or at least have Justin get me those shirts back as well as some of the newest stuff!!

you know....i dont throw any gateway-- i just havent been able to find it-- but your info i so cool to hear (what youre doing in the "lab", your plans for future runs etc.) im going to go buy a disc or two right now. Any particular website with abundant stock of your products (probably a repeat but sorry)?

you know....i dont throw any gateway-- i just havent been able to find it-- but your info i so cool to hear (what youre doing in the "lab", your plans for future runs etc.) im going to go buy a disc or two right now. Any particular website with abundant stock of your products (probably a repeat but sorry)?



Call the shop or buy direct online:
http://www.gdstour.com/store/Qstore.cgi
(314) 487-5204
(314) 487-5266 FAX

I recomend an "E" Blaze (You'll love this disc once you find shots for it) and a Wizard or two.

I have 3 big batches of E ready to go for the Hybrid.
I just need to start running them to find out how heavy the weight should be.
I already know the volume (cubic Cm) but the only real way to tell is to shoot some plastic in and get the mold up and running.

We have several thousand pounds of tthe Nike type plastic coming and should be able to use it in each of our molds except the demon and Illusion



The thought of Nike Blazes is making me drool...and ElementXs too! ****, this is the most excited I've ever been for a new disc/new run of plastic!

mmmm nike blaze

Sounds sweet.

you know....i dont throw any gateway-- i just havent been able to find it-- but your info i so cool to hear (what youre doing in the "lab", your plans for future runs etc.) im going to go buy a disc or two right now. Any particular website with abundant stock of your products (probably a repeat but sorry)?



Call the shop or buy direct online:
http://www.gdstour.com/store/Qstore.cgi
(314) 487-5204
(314) 487-5266 FAX

I recomend an "E" Blaze (You'll love this disc once you find shots for it) and a Wizard or two.



I'll second the motion for a wizard or two. Sweet flying disc. My long search for MY perfect putter is over ... after trying out the avair, roc, polecat, birdie, rhyno, magnet, putt'r and challenger ... the wizard won.

now you will win :D

Did you run any discs today Dave? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Going to third the comment on the wizard. Perfect putter for my hand, and I love the way that thing flies off the tee. There are quite a few wooded holes in Iowa, and the Wizard threads them perfectly. Cannot wait for the beadless, I may retire my back protos in favor of another putter!

i cant agree more about the wizard.... i have putted with everything and that has the best feel as well as flight.

Thanks for the props Jen,
Have we ever met?
Has Justin given you any Gateway discs to test fly?
Qualifying for usdgc is a very lofty goal, do you have others?

i dont think we have ever met....maybe tho

i got a couple illusions and sabres to throw which i am diggin. i am really likin the illusion....now that i can get it to fly....once i fix the things in my form and follow through, i think it will be an even sweeter disc for me.

and i really really like the element. i dont know why i never threw one of those before.

i guess my only goal now is to get better, and learn to follow through, then the sky will be the limit.

I can't wait to get an E-Element-X, the past couple of rounds I have played I have been throwing my Red S 177 E-X, rather than my Z-buzzz's. I have had to do this because of the color of my buzzz's (they blend in real well to dried yellowing grass) Anyways the E-X has been so good I didn't even miss throwing the buzzz's. :) I just need to make sure I get a couple of colors so I can use them throughout the year without losing them. :D

David- I am throwing all Innova right now, but I am considering a switch, because I hear alot of good things about your plastic. I am wondering what discs, in what plastics, I should get to replace my Innovas. I throw:
KC Aviars-I have tried alot of wizards, but the plastic has been too soft. Do you have Wizards that are comparable to the KC Aviars? Champion Aviars?

KC Rocs-I know about the element, but I like very overstable rocs. What's the most overstable plastic for the element? (I have thrown the demon and would put one in the bag, but I need more glide for most midrange shots)

I throw Champ Teebirds, I like the straight flight when released flat. Suggestions?

Also Champ Firebirds for very overstable hyzer-I don't like the speed demon, anything else comparable?

Thank you

The milky whites or my favorite the Black E Elements are the most stable, a lot of the power players are throwing the blaze for midrange shots, but i'm experimenting with both. The new hybrid should be pretty teebird like in flight, or the milky white sabres should be pretty close to the flight too. Spirits are very firebirdish, and I know of a ton of wizards that are as firm if not firmer than the KC aviars. Hope that helps.

daymon...
you should try throwin the illusion.. i am not sure how it compares to some of the things you are throwin, but it is pretty overstable. but when you get over on it, i have seen it fly far as heII.
ill let you try out a couple of my wizards... unforunately you cant have em, but see if you like em.
if i dont go to ludington this weekend, ill be out at tobogan from sun up till sun down all weekend.

daymon...
you should try throwin the illusion.. i am not sure how it compares to some of the things you are throwin, but it is pretty overstable. but when you get over on it, i have seen it fly far as heII.
ill let you try out a couple of my wizards... unforunately you cant have em, but see if you like em.
if i dont go to ludington this weekend, ill be out at tobogan from sun up till sun down all weekend.



Come up to Ludington. It's gonna be a good 2-3 days of discing(doubles on friday).

You can find the format of the tourney at http://www.flipcitygolf.com/

[edit, wow ludington, muskegon, not exactly the same.... don't post before coffee kids]

David- I am throwing all Innova right now, but I am considering a switch, because I hear alot of good things about your plastic. I am wondering what discs, in what plastics, I should get to replace my Innovas. I throw:

KC Aviars-I have tried alot of wizards, but the plastic has been too soft. Do you have Wizards that are comparable to the KC Aviars? Champion Aviars? <font color="red"> Get some Firm "S" Wizards...stiff as hell and similar in flight to KCs (Better of course! :D) </font>

KC Rocs-I know about the element, but I like very overstable rocs. What's the most overstable plastic for the element? (I have thrown the demon and would put one in the bag, but I need more glide for most midrange shots) <font color="red"> The Blaze flies like a slightly faster KC Roc...a lot of Team Gateway uses them as their overstable midrange. (Best in "E" IMO) Maybe also check out an "S" ElementX for straight to turnover shots. </font>

I throw Champ Teebirds, I like the straight flight when released flat. Suggestions? <font color="red"> "E" Sabres are pretty similar and the brand new Hybrid is supposed to be a slightly faster, sleeker Sabre with similar glide...so that should be a good choice too! </font>

Also Champ Firebirds for very overstable hyzer-I don't like the speed demon, anything else comparable? <font color="red"> "E" Spirits are everything Firebirds are and then some! They are significantly faster which if you know anything about physics means it gets out farther before it starts hyzering...the BEST disc into a headwind bar-none. And with age, will get better and better and eventually be your BOMB max D disc! </font>

Thank you

<font color="red"> look im chris boro I can repeat what will said in red </font>

<font color="red"> look im chris boro I can repeat what will said in red </font>



Sorry, I was checking this pretty quickly in between classes and didn't catch that you had posted...but yeah, you're right then! :p

lol no worries, as long as you dont horde all the nike blazes

lol no worries, as long as you dont horde all the nike blazes

He womn't but I will. :o

lol no worries, as long as you dont horde all the nike blazes

He womn't but I will. :o



See Matt, I can spell right so I get dibs! But seriously, these will be sweet but it might be a while...he's got to get the Hybrid on its feet first.

Justin and I just got back from giving the 1st few runs of the Hybrid a good workout.

The Orange E which seemed a little overstable at first, but reallly reacted differently once we flexed them up a bit.
I would call them a sabre with more resistance to turn or a less overstable blaze with more speed and forward penetration.
I could see Johnny McCray Really liking these in place of the older domey E blazes he throws for high controlled D!
Our Young power throwers like Matt and Devon should enjoy their resistance to turn.

They went EXTREMELY far and were easy to control when thrown with big sweedish anhyzer, as they really came out of the turn quite slowly.
They were very hard to stand up from hyzer until we flexed them up and then they turned over nicely and always seemed to comeback out at the end.

Some the white and purple S were flat and seemed as fast as the last Flat milky white E sabres and similiar in flight.

The 150 stuff was VERY EASY TO THROW and keep flat!

There is one run of Yellow E that are sick overstable and fly just like the E blazes but faster.

;
The results are pretty close to what we were looking for in the Hyrid, controlled distance and better in a headwind than the sabre. I may consider lowering the profile another .010 by making the flight plate thinner. This would increase the gyroscopic effect to seperate it more from the sabre or Blaze. It already feels a lot thinner and the S had a great feel when fan gripped
I will wait until others have thrown them awhile and have given their feedback before doing anything though!

AM I included in that!? :DBut seriously, I am very anxious to try them...sounds like I'd really like them! (Please ask Justin if he'd get me a few! Thanks!)

Shane and I wanna try them too, we were just having a discussion today about the need of a more overstable and faster sabre. Sounds like this is the missing disc in our bags

The missing disc in your bag is an 11x KC Teebird with the stamp removed so no one would know ;)

I guess i could afford to go up to warwick if i sold all my
4x Special Blend Rocs
fulll set of 2003 CE ROCS
fulll set of 2005 CE ROCS
proto Element-x (maybe??)
13x 11x Teebirds
4x Q-Omegas..


I might be able to get up there :)

-Scott Lewis

P.s. Gateway is really shaping up and Hopefully if my rating can go up and Shane and Will make me sound good I can look into a sponshorship with gateway :)

Just come play some tournaments man.... bum rides, hitchhike, bike, do whatever you can lol

I want Hybrids!!!

Greatzky,
The hybrid once slightly broken in,will be similiar to the original CE teebirds not the TL's; the really beefy red ones with the original teebird wing in the orginal CE plastic.

AM I included in that!? :DBut seriously, I am very anxious to try them...sounds like I'd really like them! (Please ask Justin if he'd get me a few! Thanks!)


Chris,
I'm sure you gonna like the disc too, I was just thinking of the players who throw more shots a little higher on there bodies turned over right out of the hand. George and Johnny also like this shot and the sabre cant handle this release well. The Hybrid will be great for this and staying straight into the wind as I havent seen the wind efeect it yet, even when throwing directlty into a headwind.
Well weve only had a small breeze, but from the stability it should handle it well.

Sounds like a beautiful disc to throw in E and S (to beat up)... cant wait to try it

Are those sickly overstable as in CE blaze overstable, cause that would seal the deal on this disc for me.

They're healthily overstable if not sickly. I failed to lean on mine with enough arm and it hyzerd out but not cartoonishly like the Speed Demon. It is plenty fast too. I began looking for my leaked shot short but was pleasantly surprised to discover it just short of pin deep.