You can give the airtraffic the Gteway office number and have them call us. 314 487 5204
If you like X-outs and missed stamped deals. we have 5 for $35 and 10 for $50 flat rates and you can pretty much choose the discs.
Paypal the money to david@gdstour and leave a detailed decsription of what you mae be looking for.
Is the Blake?

You can give the airtraffic the Gteway office number and have them call us. 314 487 5204
If you like X-outs and missed stamped deals. we have 5 for $35 and 10 for $50 flat rates and you can pretty much choose the discs.
Paypal the money to david@gdstour and leave a detailed decsription of what you mae be looking for.
Is the Blake?



Thanks for the response!

No, this isn't Blake, but I have met him and actually bought my first Gateway discs from him. My name's actually Scott and I'm an unknown recreational disc golfer. I post on gdstour.com using the same screen name for what it's worth.

I'll keep the X-out deal in mind. Last I heard from someone at Air Traffic they said that they were considering carrying Gateway this spring but I haven't heard anything since then. I just figured I'd ask you guys to see if you had any different news. The impression I get from Air Traffic is they sell more to newbies and recrational players. They don't seem to sponser many tournaments and most serious players in the area avoid them because of that. They do, however, have some killer sales every once in a while and generally have a pretty good selection...but no Gateway. :(

Get me some kind of contact person and number if you can..
Hook em up and I will hook you up.

garublador ,
Come on out to Kaposia tomorow,(noon is league) I'll have the Par 72 truck out there. I have a box of Gateway stuff that I'll sell to ya for a greatly reduced price. It's been sitting around for a while. Some rare old stuff I would think.

Dave, send me a PM, something about an email from Chris???
Hope all is well!!

I ordered a misprint pack yesterday and the service could not have been better. I'm excited to try out some new plastics and new molds...we don't get Gateway out here so this is the only way to see how the different discs fly. Just wanted to say thanks.

I can't wait until this weekend I finally get to play a long course and use some of my new Gateway drivers. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I can't wait until this weekend I finally get to play a long course and use some of my new Gateway drivers. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Good luck this weekend bud!

Thanks I appreciate it. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Let's hear it for team Gateway down at Z Boaz...looking pretty tight right now. Dave...you gotta be loving all these good showings... Dave...are you bringing Nikko down to BG again? If so, I will see ya there.

JT

Hey Dave,

I was wondering where the closest Gateway carrier was to me. I live in Toledo, OH (Michigan-Ohio border by Lake Erie). I am interested in getting a couple Soft Wizards, an E-Element and an Illusion. A couple great putters in my area have been whooping me with their beat-in Wizards. And i picked one up yesterday and understood why. Thanks!

Deucey, I'm also from northwest ohio, only way i got them was just to order them directly

TRDG,
I know that Steve Heckathorne was crrying some of our discs.
I think he lives in columbus though.
Maybe YOU can be the guy in your area that sells Gateway Discs!
If your interested let me know, if not you'll be VERY happy with the missed stamped special!

There is an innova discraft comparison thread going and I wanted to chime, but thought it better if I posted here.
Subject: Gateway discs

It is easy for players to suggest discs and make comparisons, but the facts are everyone throws different and the best way to fill you bag with discs for "YOUR GAME"
is to throw them yourself.
You may want to try some Gateway discs by purchasing a missed stamped special 5 for $35 or 10 for $50 flat rates!
Our 2 drivers, The Illusion and the Spirit are the perfect comliments to each other. If you learn these 2 discs you wont have to go around searching for anything else in the high speed drivers category.
Our next tiers of drivers the Sabre and Blaze and our mid- ranges the Element and Element-X are all engineered to compliment their counterpart.
What we do is develop 2 discs in the same speed range with the exact same grips. 1 is straight and one is overstable at each models respectice speed and range.
Element/ Element-X = 125-225
Sabre/ Blaze = 225-325
Illusion/ Spirit = 325 and up

David:
Did you get my emails?

Chris,
I will check my regular e amil and send you a reply.

Do the new S Demons fly like the old school G5is?

I picked up a G5i today and I am liking it. For me it flies like a longer whippit.

I also picked up a H Spirit.....very very overstable. I am going to have to tune it to make it a straight flier. I will also have to do that with my S Illusion. I threw Robbie D's and I was suprised that it flew straight and TURNED OVER! My S Illusion falls off hard.

Chris,
I will check my regular e amil and send you a reply.



Cool, thanks.

There is an innova discraft comparison thread going and I wanted to chime, but thought it better if I posted here.
Subject: Gateway discs

It is easy for players to suggest discs and make comparisons, but the facts are everyone throws different and the best way to fill you bag with discs for "YOUR GAME"
is to throw them yourself.
You may want to try some Gateway discs by purchasing a missed stamped special 5 for $35 or 10 for $50 flat rates!
Our 2 drivers, The Illusion and the Spirit are the perfect comliments to each other. If you learn these 2 discs you wont have to go around searching for anything else in the high speed drivers category.
Our next tiers of drivers the Sabre and Blaze and our mid- ranges the Element and Element-X are all engineered to compliment their counterpart.
What we do is develop 2 discs in the same speed range with the exact same grips. 1 is straight and one is overstable at each models respectice speed and range.
Element/ Element-X = 125-225
Sabre/ Blaze = 225-325
Illusion/ Spirit = 325 and up



See, I don't think I've heard that before. Maybe you should put it up on your site, like the window once a person clicks on discs, but before they select which one? That seems like a really smart way to start out making discs, make sure you let people who don't see this thread know thats the way its done. (maybe it is on your site and I just never noticed)

We will be updating the contents portion of our website someday soon. We have a few more articles and other information like this that we want players to be able to read without digging through the discusion boards.
*
I think there has been a major misconception about our discs from the beginning,
Until recently ( within the last year or so) most of our runs have been R&D prototyping.
Thats not to say that there hasnt been some awesome discs produced during that time, but most of the runs were smaller 200-300 per batch.
I worked more on the flight characteristic than the physical appearance of the disc through blending and profiles of injection.
It's a really big learnig curve and rather expensive to have someone else do it for you.
The plastics industry is one of the largest in the world and finding the right polymer or blend of polymers to get the right feel, flex and flight is the HARDEST part.
( ask the Johnny from disc wing or Holgate from ching!)
Plus a portion of the plastic has to be made for you by 3rd party companies. You cant just go buy frisbie golf disc plastic from the store*
Now that we have a complete line up of discs and a good idea of how we want each model to fly, compared to each other, things should only get better for us and the players who use the products.

One thing I've noticed in the time I've thrown Gateway is peoples reactions to the newer stuff. All the guys I know had seen the early stuff and didn't seem to care too much. Then they see something I throw on the course and they [*****] themselves! I have seen more Gateway being thrown now than ever before! It sure helps when a Gateway pro is in town and hooks people up, but that aside more and more people are groovin on the stuff!!

I am very proud to be a part of Gateway, and am equally proud of where things are going!

Maybe YOU can be the guy in your area that sells Gateway Discs!
If your interested let me know, if not you'll be VERY happy with the missed stamped special!



I would love to, once the finances are right. And that I will have thrown a gateway disc more than once might help too. So first i think i will get that mis-stamped deal and then go from there. But being the ONLY local rep would be so sweet! Heck, being a rep would be sweet enough.

FYI: I am an up-and-coming disc golf fanatic. I'm 19 and just love disc golf. I currently play AM-1 but just placed 3rd at our local ice bowl in Open. So i'm not terrible, HA! I just became a PDGA Official to make our local events even more professional (I think i am the 4th local guy who is an official now). I run our local disc golf site ( www.TADGA.COM (http://www.TADGA.COM) ). And i'm pretty good at marketing and design (see site above!) I currently throw mostly Innova and some Discraft but that's not carved in stone ya know.

In the BAG:
--Glow Aviars (174g) (just putting)
--Pro Line Rhyno (172g) (Drives and approaches <240) (new favorite)
--KC Pro Banshee (172g) (<300' Hyser bombs/Skip Shots)(favorite disc ever!)
--KC Pro Firebird (174g) (<330' Hyser shots/Windy stuff)
--KC Pro Teebird (175g) (250'-370' Straight/Slight Anhyser shots)
--Sidewinder (169g) (175'-380' Big flips/Great D)
--Pro Line Beast (175g) (350'-425' Straight shots/Slight Hyser end)
--Champion Orc (174g) (300'-420' Hyser shots)
--Flick (169g) (300'-380' Hyser windy shots/Low profile shots)

(notice that there are NO Midranges in my bag. I have tried ROCS/BUZZS/WASPS/STORMS/HAWKS and none have been comfortable to throw. That is why i have turned to other options (Gateway!) the element appears to be my savior. We'll see.)

Could Gateway cover all of these discs?
(could i switch over to gateway and still throw how i throw?)

I love the beat-in Wizard and i NEED to get me some of those!

Over and out!

Cheat,
There are really only 3 kinds of demon.
One is a softer flat Demon that are wickedly overstable that break in to become less overatable but will always finish hard.
The other and most common demons are a little more firm, slightly domey with a lot of concave on the wing.
While not as overstable as the soft flat ones they will also break in( either on purpose or eventually) to become a straigt flying discs that doesnt cut so hard at the end.
The best thing about the Demon is once you get it to the piont where it will fly straight it stays that way forever!
The 2rd type of demon is the G6i, which are the Rarest.
The are usually firm, domey and have almost no concave on the wing. We make these by running faster cycle times and droppping them in wtare right out of the mold to make them dome up more. The faster cycle time doesnt allow the wing to conform to the actual shape and puff out a little sometimes.
We have a run og Orange E illusions that we ran like this a month or so back that are wayy less overstable than the other E illusions right out of the box.

Hotstamps on demons are not really the best way to tell the difference and this descrption should help you know what to look for.

Alright...

I will take out my demon this afternoon and take a look at it this afternoon.

What I can tell you is that the plastic was very stiff and I could throw it some distance before it crashed hard. Like I said, I am getting more distance out of this demon than my whippit.

The first Gateway disc I ever owned was a old school Blaze(when you were using the numbering system). It was white and the plastic was a little slick. I used it one round and then gave it to a friend because I think I put a gouge in it or something.

I can't wait to get more Gateway plastic and throw it. I will need to get more Wizards soon as one of the local courses is all rock and it likes to scuff up the rims of my putters.

Ok. I just got back from PIAS and I picked up some used gateway plastic. I also brought in my Demon I got yesterday.

I picked up 2 sabres. One of them has a 2000 SLDGC stamp on it. The other has the old sabre stamp: two sabres with the gateway logo on top, the word Sabre written under the swords, and the words Gateway Golf Disc's 844 on the very bottom of the stamp.

I picked up a really beat in H Speed Demon, so hopefull it will fly straight for me.

The other disc I picked up was a old black G5i Demon(same stamp as the one I got yesterday). It is kinda beat in so hopefully it is the straight flyer you were talking about a couple posts ago.

Does that PIAS carry new discs as wel?
If so maybe you can get some conatct infor for me and I can see what I can do to get them some of our frechh stuff on the shelves.

Yeah...they carry new discs as well. I don't usually like going to PIAS though to buy discs. They jack their prices up really high. For example, they were selling new super rocs for 25 when I could order one online for 15. They also like to buy used discs that belong to other people and then when those people come in to claim them they have issues with them

Plankeye, I have some flippy protos if you need a less stable Demon. Just PM me and we'll figure out which tourney we'll both be at and I'll be sure to bring them.

alright. we will see what we can do.

Thanks Rodney.

what is the difference(besides the name) between the '844 sabre' and the other 'sabre' you produced? Is one slightly more overstable than the other?

Supposedly the 844 has a touch more stability to it. You can also find the Sabre FX...which I am told is the same thing as an 844. But I could be wrong...

How much more dome does the Illusion have in Evolution plastic than in S? I know most of your drivers mold up with more dome in the higher durability plastics, but my evolution blaze, Element X, and clear Element are all relatively flat...I even found a Scout with less dome than I remember my first one having. Flatter discs feel more comfortable in my hand, but even when I don't really need the durability I feel more confident throwing tougher plastics.

By the way, on another thread you asked about the fascination with clear plastics...well, despite the fact that the old opaque Innova CE seems to be as durable as any clear candy available now from my limited experience with it, I think there is some impression that the clearer the disc, the more durable it must be (I actually once read something that seemed to suggest that there was some validity to this based on the fact that the weighting agent in low-grade plastic was what made it less durable and also what made it opaque). To be honest, despite the repeated statement that opaque Evolution is just as durable as clear, my clear Element seems to be more resistant to abrasive damage (nicks, dings, and rough spots from landing on rocks or hitting trees) than my opaque Evolution Element X. Both of them seem to be about equally resistant to denting, tacoing, or anything that might unfavorably affect their flight path, but the edges of the opaque disc seem to develop more wear and tear. This may be due either to the fact that the Element X was a proto run or possibly the fact that the rockiest course I play has a higher demand for the less flippy Element X, but the difference seemed noticable to me after the first few errant throws with each one. I still love both plastics, but if my observations are consistent with other people's experiences, that may account for some of the preference for the clear plastic. I still think most of it is the coolness factor.

I need to stop buying long sentences on discount.

If youve got extra long sentences layong around you might as well get rid of them. I know I have a few I throw out every once in a while :D.
With most of our discs the flatter the disc the more overstable. The 844 sabre was the original name and on the orginal stamp of our first 2 molds Sabre844 and Blaze844. Once we dropped the 844 on the stamps we started using it on a specific blend of material that we used in the Sabres, Blazes and for a few runs of Wizards.
It was a flame retardent rubber that was meant for welding cables.
It molded up very flat and with a lot of concave on the wing making them more overstable and more durable as well.
It was quite expensive and needed extremely long cycle time to set up, so it was not very cost effective.
FX is a term we use for discs we place over the fixture for the Sabre, Blaze and Demon. It wont allow the disc to shrink as much, so they are a little bigger in diameter,flatter and with a lot of concave.
They will peform similiar to the 844 discs, and YES some 844 are also FX's which are definately the most overstable ones of all.
We made about 100 FX sabres in the latest runs of "S" sabre's and they feel really nice, but I havent had a chance to throw any of them yet. The E mold up so flat there is alomst no need to place them over the fixture.

The latest runs of E sabres are the flattest ever, but with the flexibility of the Urathane they become less stable at really high speeds.
Ive heard and seen that players with less power are finding the CE type sabres a pefect fit of speed and glide for them.
My nephew Nikko has about 350 power with an Illusion and seems to be able to do what he wants with the Clear Sabres for shots of 250-325. The faster surface will allow for longer shots with less power, but if you have a lot of power you will also need to be extremely smooth with your release to throw the E Sabres, If they seem a little flippy, jump to the E Blazes as they can handle the extra torque and a little more turbulance.
Johnny McCray throws E Blazes as his main drivers and for all of his big drives where he can get some height and has no problem getting them over 400 plus!
The "S" blaze though is by far our most underated disc!
We recently changed the marketing of this disc fromlong range driver to mid to long range driver :cool:

Again, I can't wait to see the molding process first hand...seems really cool!!!

Thanks for all the info...however, buried in my second to last post (my own fault...I talk too much), the key thing I really wanted to know was about how much dome the rumored Evolution Illusions (try saying that five times fast) have. Because of the solidity of the rim on those babies, my S is holding up pretty well, but I made the mistake of getting rid of my two spares before I learned how to throw it properly (didn't think it would fill a different role from my Spirit) and now my fingers are itching at the thought of one in a higher durability plastic that I might not hesitate...dare I say it...to throw at the Kentwood Quarry.

The E and H are a bit more domey than the Proto "S" with the G stamp.
The production runs of S were a bit flat and overstable for some players. We battle the pdga tech standards on flexibility and the softer stuff molds up flatter.

It seems the E illusion were a pretty big seller this month,
I'm not sure how many we have left.
I know there are a few yellow E X-outs with a little delaminination on the bottom by the sprue( nipple) on the missed stamped shelf.
I thought I made enough to last, but apparently not!
I know there are plenty of H and they should hold up almost as good. In fact the H are a bit less overstable than the E (except for the puffy orange ones)

Hey Dave another desire for a not-so-stiff plastic is skipping. My S Demon skips big time. Do you think a more durable plastic that is a little less stiff will hit and stick a little better? That seems to be my experience....though I suppose with a big wing you are guaranteed to have a certain amount of skip no matter what. The S Demon is perfect for a big hyzer for me about 250-270 but even when I get the line and height right and land where I want I get a gigantic skip and end up with a big putt back from left of the basket.

"Skipage" occurs b/c a disc still has excess spin as it lands at an angle.

If you spike your short hyzers, they stick better...also, try playing the skip...land your shot a little short and right and watch it dance to the pin!

Yeah you are right the more spike the better, in general. This is kind of a tricky hole (you wouldn't think so but blowing past it, flipping over into the water, or skipping into the creek that is in the woods on the left all happen quite often) and taking something overstable (like a demon) that is sure to come back just increases the chances of skipping off the green. Not much room to land to the right of the hole and the sidewalk (including the second one to the right of the hole that isn't shown) definitely increases the skippage... I feel the demon is a great disc for this hole over an overstable roc but the dx rocs definitely stop a little easier.

Hole 8 (http://www.memphisdiscgolf.com/cms/images/stories/JRP/hole8jrp.jpg)

Skip it off the road and into the basket. :D:D

My buddy skipped it into the side of the cage just a touch low today. When I aced it it was a big hyzer with a DX Beast I thought I had pulled to far to the right...but it managed to find its way :)

You may want to try an Element X or a Blaze.
I hear that a lot of people throw the demon besause of the skip. I think Graham has a few skip aces and I know Johnny McCray has one or 2.
I'm not quite sure why but my shots dont skip very much.
I havent thrown the demon in a few years and prefer the Blaze and Overstable Wizards for that style of shot!
I usually throw Hyzer flips, slight reverses or Spike Hyzers. How a disc lands on the green is almost as important as how it flies to get there, especially when they are sloped

You may want to try an Element X or a Blaze.
I hear that a lot of people throw the demon besause of the skip. I think Graham has a few skip aces and I know Johnny McCray has one or 2.
I'm not quite sure why but my shots dont skip very much.
I havent thrown the demon in a few years and prefer the Blaze and Overstable Wizards for that style of shot!
I usually throw Hyzer flips, slight reverses or Spike Hyzers. How a disc lands on the green is almost as important as how it flies to get there, especially when they are sloped



I've seen a few wicked skip aces with Demons...its sick. But David hit it on the nose...you may want to try the ElementX on this shot...with the right angle of release, it can fly like a Demon, but have a friendlier landing.

How does the Speed Demon compare to the Flick???

How does the Speed Demon compare to the Flick???



Makes it look like a Talon/Eagle/Crush :o

But seriously, Speed Demons are CrAzY overstable! SUPER predictable in all conditions though.

mmmm. may have to try one out, i flipped my flick over a bit today in the wind. it wasnt a strong wind, and its a brand new flick

Once you beat a H Speed Demon in, it will be easier to throw it straight or turn it over slightly.

I have two speed demons that were straigth out of the box. Then again I also had two massively overstable ones. :D:D

Dave should I e-mail you some pics for the website? If so I will get them in soon. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The Speed Demon is without a doubt the most overstable disc on the market. It will disect even the most brutal of headwind situations. Also as mentioned above, best skip disc for trick/utility shots. I saw a skip ace with one that came out of the hand roller angle anhyzer 100+ feet right of the pin, did a full flex(s-curve) and skiped 100+ feet back to the left for an ace!! :eek: That was with a BRAND NEW one. :D

I went out yesterday and played a round using only gateway discs. This is what I have and what I learned from just throwing them yesterday.

1 Beat up H-Speed Demon-I have to make sure that I don't release this with anhyzer. It won't come back since it is so beat in. If I release it flat or with a little hyzer and keep the nose down it flies far. It does not make a good forehand roller. I had 2 great drives with it: both went about 350 straight.

2 Old School Sabres- These few dead straight with either a little fade or a little turnover. I have to throw these a little higher to get them to go anywhere.

1 Element-X-Dead straight with a little fade. I didn't have much luck throwing these in the wind.

2 G5i Demons-I am loving these. I had a couple late releases because of getting used to the wide rim. I also had 2 great drives that put me in birdie range. One hole is a hole that I couldn't figure out the right place or the right disc to throw on the hole. The older, more beat in demon flies a little further before fading out. I am loving them.

1-New H Spirit- Wow...Overstable! I had to throw these with a little anhyzer so they wouldn't bomb so quickly. I got a couple great drives with it though. I know the more I use it and tune it, it will become a straight flyer with less of a hard fade at the end.

Wizards-We all know about wizards. Didn't learn anything new with them.

I can agree that aging of a disc is what makes it special...especially with rocs, dx tee/firebirds, and even my champion orc thats absolutely perfect after about 3 months of wear and tear.


One thing I don't think is reasonable at all though, is buying a number of drivers, all meant to do their own things, and having to wait for them to all break in to avoid them being extremely overstable.

It's like our GDSTour we had at Live Oak. The players package consisted of one a few discs that actually did what their information stated. I think we got Xout Candy Spirits and a Wizard or Chief putter. Everyone liked the Wizard However, the disc that everybody got for a driver was those xout spirits and speed demons. Spirit at the time was supposed to be Gateways longest driver availble. I can crush pretty much anything I can get a good snap on and so can many others at my home course, and not one person got past the uprights during the long drive comp with the spirit or speed demon.



Why buy stuff that's supposed to be long and straight and settle for beating the **** outta it just to get it to do what it was made to do. That's kinda silly, doesn't anyone agree?

It is silly, I think a disc should do what its meant to do right out of the box. I'm not a big fan of breaking in discs.

Well I can go ahead and tell you that the spirit is an overstable driver. It even says so on the plastic.

The Speed Demon is High Speed Overstable.

People say that rocs fly straight. But they don't do that out of the box. You have to beat them in a little.

mmmm. may have to try one out, i flipped my flick over a bit today in the wind. it wasnt a strong wind, and its a brand new flick



Speed Demons will never turnover...you can throw them with reverse into headwinds and they will fight it!

Well...I know the Blaze, and Sabre are great drivers...they do what they say.


However, my experience with the Spirit, Illusion, etc have all been negative.


Doesn't make much sense, tho, because I've seen people throw Illusions and Spirits that don't need annie or anything to get them to fly straight. Seems like Gateway discs a year ago were just all extremely overstable.

While it would seem great to grab a disc and have it perform right out of the box, remember that all discs are going to change with wear. The idea of Gateway discs is that they will be what you want once you get them broken in. A disc will remain broken in a LOT longer than it will remain new. The Spirit and Illusion are amazing discs for throwing decent distances VERY low to the ground. Everyone talks about having to get the Sabre up high and I think that stigma carries over to the new gateway drivers, but it is by no means true. The Illusion is my money driver when there is a low ceiling and I use the Spirit when I want it to hyzer more at the end. And like it has been mentioned, players have said they can throw Spirtis and Illusions straight, the discs are claimed to be overstable by Gateway though. The Speed Demon is just a totally different animal and would take a gorilla to throw a new one too straight. Its a great disc when you need it though and the best disc for skips.

I was throwing all gateway at Victoria and if you could see they flew straight for me. :D:D

**** Kids........ :DCongrats Matt

The only thing I wish Gateway had now is a driver that will turnover right out of the box.

Because of that I am going to have to keep my JK valks in my bag. I shot a 60 at a local course today(par 57 or 58 depending on who you ask). It would have been better but the two holes that I need a turnover driver, I bogied because I didn't have anything to throw on the hole and I tried to throw the sabre with some anhyzer.

Have you thrown the Apache? Its a great disc that has a nice slow right fade when thrown with a little hyzer. :D

No I haven't. I would do it, but it is hard to find OLD gateway discs around here.

I can get the sabre to hold a turnover, but it is a long turnover. It isn't anything that will turnover quickly like a leopard or a valk.

Still loving the demons...

If the hole isn't super long you can always get an S element broken in and if you release it flat it will turn over HARD.

Yeah. I forgot about the elements. I had one and left it out at a course last month. It was at that perfect beat point. The only thing I didn't like about it is that the element seemed like it didn't have a lot of glide to it.

My elements have just a little less glide than my wizards... thrown on a good line they ride it out for a good ways. Its not a max D driver, it is a mid range disc, but it has great glide for me.

I think I will just have to get another element soon.

jk valk flips easier than your sabre??? take your sabre and hit some trees.

Quote;
"It's like our GDSTour we had at Live Oak. The players package consisted of one a few discs that actually did what their information stated. I think we got Xout Candy Spirits and a Wizard or Chief putter. Everyone liked the Wizard However, the disc that everybody got for a driver was those xout spirits and speed demons. Spirit at the time was supposed to be Gateways longest driver availble. I can crush pretty much anything I can get a good snap on and so can many others at my home course, and not one person got past the uprights during the long drive comp with the spirit or speed demon"

Kevmo,
I have made a few posts asking if anyone has any of the green or Green/blue spirits from that event.
They are most likely the Best discs we have ever made.
I was given the plastic to sample by the Nike in house manufacturing plant here in St Louis.
After getting it all figured out I was told they couldnt sell me the plastic.( made believe they would be making their own frisbie discs someday soon)!
Round up as many as you can get your hands on.
I will trade you any Champion disc I have for each one of them or any 2 Gateway discs for each one.
I have ce Firebirds, teebirds, eagles whatever you want!

jk valk flips easier than your sabre??? take your sabre and hit some trees.



I have hit a lot of trees with my sabre. It doesn't help!

And yeah..my JK flips easier than my sabres.

There is still a gap between the Sabre and Illusion for some players. I would try working the sabre a few more times either flat or with less reverse. If there is a restriction on the height try an H illusion.

Hey Dave, I got one of them Xout pea green first run Spirits. Got it from you at last years March Madness tourney. You seriously want it that bad?

If you would have let that out a week earlier I would have traded you mine instead of trading it to discindeadhead. :(

Is there a chance any would not be x-outs? I have a pea green first run E-spirit 173g with a rainbow stamp on it. Plastic is nice and flexible. Its the only E disc i have so I don't have anything to compare it to. I ask more to know whether any additional E discs I purchase will or won't be similar.

The one I have isn't marked as an Xout either. Dave just brought a box full of them to the tournament and said they were mistatmps. The only thing wrong with mine at all is on the underside of the disc near the center nub. Other than that its perfect. So not being marked may not mean anything, but I am sure some of them were good enough to be non X'ed.

The ones I'm talking about our translucent with the gdstour Star stamp or 1st run spirit stamp or both,either kelley green, aqua or blue! You can easily see light through them.
No not all of the are X outs.
The ones you guys are talking about are solid in color, correct? Ther were only about 700 made and 160 or so went to 2 gdstours in Texas, san angelo and San Antonio.

Happy Birthday Dave...how many candles are on that cake???? :D

$! ( break the code) :D

41??? :o:D

Get me some kind of contact person and number if you can..
Hook em up and I will hook you up.



I'm not sure if you've seen them or not, but you have a couple of PMs from me.

P.S. I just got my hands one one of those red Element-Xs you talked about above. I thought it felt and looked more S-like than other Evolution plastic discs I've used. I'm excited to try it out.

If you would have let that out a week earlier I would have traded you mine instead of trading it to discindeadhead. :(



Yeah, I too think they are the best!! But now that Davids made that offer, my chances of trades are low!

Well Dave, I have quite a few of those. Most people didn't like them so I collected. :)

So are the ones you gave out at the March Madness tournie the kind you are looking for? If so I got one... oh and happy B-day Dave.

No not the pea grean ones.
Thanks for the Happy B-day.

I've got a tealish green, semi-translucent Spirit that has two GDSTour stamps and a first run Spirit stamp that I bought from Sun King. The plastic is really similar to Innova CE plastic. It's quite a bit less overstable than my non-translucent E Spirit, which is also more of a pea-green. But sorry Dave, I won't take you up on your offer. This baby's staying in the bag.

I've got a tealish green, semi-translucent Spirit that has two GDSTour stamps and a first run Spirit stamp that I bought from Sun King. The plastic is really similar to Innova CE plastic. It's quite a bit less overstable than my non-translucent E Spirit, which is also more of a pea-green. But sorry Dave, I won't take you up on your offer. This baby's staying in the bag.



Ouch, and on his b-day too...

Very wise choice.
This spirit is in my opinion a disc that both innova and Discraft will be playing catch up on for a while and that particular run is awesome.( especially for players with BIG power)!
The Latest runs of E spirits which are mostly white or orange are very close in flight but have a different feel because of the plastic! The new stuff is really durable but not quite as Gummy as the nke stuff.

Very wise choice.
This spirit is in my opinion a disc that both innova and Discraft will be playing catch up on for a while and that particular run is awesome.( especially for players with BIG power)!
The Latest runs of E spirits which are mostly white or orange are very close in flight but have a different feel because of the plastic! The new stuff is really durable but not quite as Gummy as the nke stuff.



Happy birthday David! (Read my emails yet? :confused: :eek:)

I've been on a witch hunt tracking those bad boys down, and so far I've collected about 5 backups with just as many that I might be able to negotiate...plus I lost one in a creek in Osky...sure its still there, so I'm tempted to look for it next time I'm there!

David,

I got 3 of the latest run of E Sabres (2 pearly white & 1 clear with no stamp)...... and everybody that's seen them really likes them. They are pretty soft though, so is there any chance of getting more like these with the flatter tops, but in a harder plastic?

Robbie

We will try and get the next batch a little more firm, but most likely they wont be quite as flat or gummy.
There are a few that are a little firmer, I think they are blueish translucent!

Dave, went out and threw those new E Sabres and Blazes. Very nice. The Sabre was a little flippy but great for those 3/4 speed straight shots. The Blaze was extremely impressive. Great glide and total predictability. The E Blaze is officialy my "go to" driver. Keep em' comin! :cool:

Whats up Madtown?
You guys getting some decent weather for golf?
#
The new E sure looks nice with the reworked Blaze stamp. It's smaller and says " mid to long range driver". I havent given it much of a work out on the course though.
I notice they glide well when reversed and seem to fall of left a little less than the overstable "S"!
Whats your assesment so far?

# Have you thrown any of the new runs of "S" Blaze?
They are all pretty much like those grey ones, really straight right out of the box and grippy!

The more I play with these discs, the more I am liking them. The only thing I am having issues with is playing in the woods with them. Then again yesterday I was playing with a broken/sprained middle finger and my middle finger plays a huge part in my control.

I got a proto demon from Rodney for registering him for a tourny and that thing feels nice. It will take some beating in but when it happens man....

My S-Illusion is finally starting to get beat in enough where it is starting to fly straighter longer.

I traded a dx Orc for a Proline Evolution SD. That will take a while to become like the old beat up H SD that is a turnover disc for me.

The only innova/discraft disc I have in my bag still is a JK Valk and that is for those long turnover drives.

At Cedarock yesterday I was -2 from the long pads to the long pins after 18 holes. We had to quit then because it was getting dark, but I could have definately taken a 3 on the last two holes.

Oh...and for some odd reason you list the blaze as a 4(i think) in overstability? One of my friends has an evolution Blaze(greyish blue) and he will throw them with anhyzer and they will not fight out of it. Are the E-Blazes less overstable or is it that certain run or what?

Also were the chiefs made out of a different plastic than the wizards are now? The plastic feels grippy like S, but it is springy like H.

Some Chiefs are H/S, if they are not really shiney than that is probable what you have.

There was a run of "S" Blazes that were a lot less overstable than most. They were blue or grey and puffy on the wing ( less concave).
The latest run of S is really similiar in stability and the E should still be pretty beefy. Like I siad I havent had a chance to throw very many shots with the E blaze yet.

The most recent batch of S Blazes you sent me are a bit less concave in the wing for sure, but also shallower in total. They're awesome feeling discs! I absolutely love Blazes. Haven't thrown the E yet though. I was kinda hoping that they're beefy like you say so I can keep one overstable even in woods.

Can't wait for the Teebird-esque disc. That distance is the one hole in the lineup. Should be awesome! What's the word on how that disc is coming along?



Edit: post #300 :cool:

To answer the Blaze stability question a little more, the stability ratings for our discs are based on discs thrown flat. The 4 is the amount of fade once flying straight, not how much it comes back out of it when turned over.
Discs that have a little dome to them should all be less overstable or stay turning longer when reversed right out of the hand.
There are so many different styles of throws and release angles, speeds, rotations and trajectories from person to person, that the ratings couldnt be exactly the same for each style.
The ratings are a base for our discs when thrown flat for their intended use.
The resistance to turn of a blaze is what makes it a very popular disc among Gateways top pro players!
It can really handle a lot of torque even when its broken in some!
Here is an example of shot selection and style;
Yesterday Justin threw a sabre about 480 feet and pinned a very hard hole. He reversed the disc the whole way around this huge tree. The shot was about 50-60 feet high. If you threw a sabre reversed like that right out of your hand and only 20 feet high it would probably dive into the ground at 150 feet out and start rolling left!
I threw an E illusion on the hole and was about 25 short, but my disc never got over 15 feet high.

David:
Question about a Demon I have...

Its very domey, and the nose doesn't seem as blunt. Also, the wing is a tad puffier. Its still "S", but not too stiff. Is this a G6i? Its not nearly as overstable as the rest of mine, so I took it out of my stack...but my G6 loving friend is groovin on it.

I am willing to guess that it is a G6i. I have one in my bag and it is no doubt less stable than all the other demons by about half. That was my main long mid-range until the element's came out. Those new E Blazes are the best ones yet! Not as stable as the S models but faster and better glide! Was averaging 20-30 more feet with me E Blaze compared with the S. It smacked the concrete on a hyzer when my buddy and I were tossing it back and forth, not even a ding. If I don't lose that disc it will never come out of my bag, cause they don't beat up. :cool:Great job Dave, keep em' comin'! :D

I am willing to guess that it is a G6i. I have one in my bag and it is no doubt less stable than all the other demons by about half. That was my main long mid-range until the element's came out. Those new E Blazes are the best ones yet! Not as stable as the S models but faster and better glide! Was averaging 20-30 more feet with me E Blaze compared with the S. It smacked the concrete on a hyzer when my buddy and I were tossing it back and forth, not even a ding. If I don't lose that disc it will never come out of my bag, cause they don't beat up. :cool:Great job Dave, keep em' comin'! :D



Yeah, it fealt like a G6...they too used to me my main midrange but not anymore...

I can't wait to throw the new "E" Sabres and Blazes...I just lost 2 of my stable/straight Spirits so I'm in dire need of a stable control driver!! :D

I have decided to part with my 844 S Sabres, the ones Dave was talking about earlier in this post. I threw them on eBay if you want to buy them or just check them out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;rd=1&amp;item=7138781235&amp;ssPage Name=STRK:MESE:IT

Dave...I sent you an email but I used the office address.

I just got a new Proto Element X. On the underside around the middle "belly button" are three fairly big air bubbles. It feels just like a blister on your finger. Should I just leave them alone or pop them like a blister?
Thanks

david-

i gave the person running a tourny at my school gateways email the other day. just a heads up...

School? What college, high, or what. :confused: :confused:

College hurts my head.

pre school

What would you say will make the best roller? I have tried rolling with a Speed Demon and Sabre.

Would the best roller be a S-Illusion?

The S-Illusion at 177g has the best potential for a roller. According to physics the heavier the disc and the more weight on the outter edge the longer the disc will roll. But shhhh im trying to keep it a secret.

What would you say will make the best roller? I have tried rolling with a Speed Demon and Sabre.

Would the best roller be a S-Illusion?



A broken in S illusion is great for long rollers.

A broken in Element or Element-X would also make a good roller choice. (I throw Elements when I need to throw a roller...)

lost my element x in the waters of Jim Mazola this Sunday. boy what a great driver that mid range makes

S Illusions hands down roll forever when broken in. "S" Sabres make a good roller for accuracy holes with low ceilings, and "S" Elements make good midrange/approach rollers.

lost my element x in the waters of Jim Mazola this Sunday. boy what a great driver that mid range makes



Yeah, they certainly are a smooth flyer!

What would you say will make the best roller? I have tried rolling with a Speed Demon and Sabre.

Would the best roller be a S-Illusion?


I usually roll an S Sabre, but have been using an S Element for some shorter control rolling.
Ive seen great success with the Illusion for rolling with the S,H and E! They fly so fast for me that they seem to turn right sooner than I want them to.
The succeses Ive seen with rolling the illusion are from players with less power!

So what are you calling me Dave a wimp? :D:D

Calm down scooter, having it said that you throw with less power than dave is like saying you are taller than a midget. It's true for most of us normal people and you aren't even half his age. :p :D

Our high speed drivers( Speed Demon, Spirit and Illusion) fly so well low to the gropund, I've found myself actually rolling quite a bit less the last 2 years.
Rolling was actually a big part of my game back in the late 80's. ( Stingrays, P-38 and XD's)
I can get over 400 feet with a Spirit less than 10-15 feet off the ground the whole way.
When we had the fly 18 courses here in St Louis I really rolled the Sabre a lot.The short surface of the fairway was awesome for sky rollers!! :cool:

I think I have a lot more power than 99% of the guys in TX but I roll an Illusion. :D:D

I meant it as no insult Scooter, you could probably easily outdrive me with a wizard and give me a stack of drivers.

I didn't take it as one so don't worry I am used to taking crap from everyone. :D:D

Hey Dave, I called the shop last wednesday and talked to someone (wasn't Justin) about getting a misprint package. He took down my cell number and the discs I wanted and he said he would call me back after he checked what he has in store. Haven't heard from him since. Just wanted to know if my name and list is still floating around or if I should call and start the ordering up again.

Roll em if you got em! ;)

Matt Nikko is playing golf almost every day now.
He is looking forward to playing in some events this year.
He keeps asking my if I think he can beat Matt Hall yet.

Ihope you can make it up to St Louis this summer for a few weeks. When do you get out of school?

I hope so too. I get out in late May so maybe we can see what he's got then. :D:DDid justin tell you of our extended conversation yesterday?

I hope I represent well at our AM Xtown here in Raleigh in a few weeks. I know at one course I will do really well on because the holes are long and are better suited to my game. I haven't had many rounds at all at a technical course so I need to figure out how things are going to work for me there.

Treeklunker,
That was OZZY, do you know him?
He has 2 foot long red "beaver tail" dred locks.
I was there when you called and saw him gave Justin the message. Not sure what happened from there.
Did you want some specific discs sent to you or do you want to come by the shop and pick out your own?

Treeklunker,
That was OZZY, do you know him?
He has 2 foot long red "beaver tail" dred locks.
I was there when you called and saw him gave Justin the message. Not sure what happened from there.
Did you want some specific discs sent to you or do you want to come by the shop and pick out your own?


I would love to come by and pick em out... you have them at the shop by JB? Would love to get my hands on some of the flat CE Sabres too. I could make it over there on Friday if that works for you guys. Looks like it should be a nice day to get some new plastic and test fly it. Let me know if Friday works and what time if any is preferrable.

Yeah,
I had to fire him last night because he was talking to you for so long :mad:
I rehired him this morning at a lower rate and made him work overtime tonight for free :D

Just kidding!
He did tell me he talked to you but didnt say much else.

BTW,
You probably practice the roller a lot more than I do.
Are you able to keep it straight without it fading hard at the end?

Dave, I looked at the St. louis courses on the website and was just wondering which do you like the best this goes for anyone. :confused: :D:confused:

Yeah it fades about 20' at the end. Ok I need to go putt I am already 8 minutes late. :D:D

Hey Dave...when might we see a new high speed driver from you? I know that you were toying with a new top for the speed demon and spirit at one time. Is that still going on? Just wondering. Also wondering about perhaps a smaller winged version of the spirit or illusion. I think that would be pretty sweet too. I want something that has the feel of a teebird wing wise, but the speed of an illusion. That's not asking for much is it???? :D

They are working on a T-bird like disc.

Dave, I looked at the St. louis courses on the website and was just wondering which do you like the best this goes for anyone. :confused: :D:confused:


JB, Woodland Chains, Endicott and Quail Ridge are my favorite area courses. JB has really nice terrain and well defined trees. Woodland chains is basically my home course and is a little more open but still a lot of elevation changes and the lake is in play a lot especially from the blue tees. Nice thing about Woodland is that you can play it from the the reds and have a lot of easy runs for birdie, then go to the blues and beg for a clear upshot for bird. The level differential between the tees is very nice. Endicott is a nice course with a lot of hills. I haven't played it since they added the concrete pads, but there is a nice mix of open and tight holes. One hole on the back (11 or 12) is played down a walking path with bushes on either side with a late 90 degree dogleg right to a pin fairly well protected while other holes are straight at it down the hill. Quail Ridge I have only played once but really liked the feel of the park and it also has a great variety. I don't like parks that are overly open or overly treed up. I prefer the courses where you get a nice variety. IMHO

Dave, I think you should work on making a clear s plastic. Now that'd awesome : )

Dave, I think you should work on making a clear s plastic. Now that'd awesome : )


Don't mess with a good thing... plus the best part of S is its ability to bang up and break in and stay perfect in flight. What good would it be to make a "pretty" clear disc that you wanted to get all banged up?

We do have some Clear S but they only weigh about 127 grams in the spirits!
We had some Clear S we ran in the Illusion and got some up to about 165 or so, but the durability was not even as good as our regular S.
Ther are 4 reason why discs are being made out of Urethane.
1 is of course the durability and flexibility and the other 2 go hand in hand; Heavy and Clear/translucent making it one of the the only material that is dense enough by itself without adding any fillers. adding weight fillers will make the plastic less translucent!

Joe,
It's looking like may 1st.
Check your PM

Hey Dave, don't know if my post got lost in the shuffle, but would Friday be good to come check out those discs?

We do have some Clear S but they only weigh about 127 grams in the spirits!
We had some Clear S we ran in the Illusion and got some up to about 165 or so, but the durability was not even as good as our regular S.
Ther are 4 reason why discs are being made out of Urethane.
1 is of course the durability and flexibility and the other 2 go hand in hand; Heavy and Clear/translucent making it one of the the only material that is dense enough by itself without adding any fillers. adding weight fillers will make the plastic less translucent!



I had a clear "S" Illusion that Justin gave me in Columbia...that is until I couldn't find it at the park one day...days later is showed up in pieces...I have the profile of the wing on my wall...the rest couldn't be found!

TK,
Friday should be fine what time were you thinking?

Chris it sounds like that disc got hit by a mower.
Ive thrown almost every one of our discs straight into a brick wall at our shop to test for that kind of thing!
I have seen one break yet!

Chris it sounds like that disc got hit by a mower.
Ive thrown almost every one of our discs straight into a brick wall at our shop to test for that kind of thing!
I have seen one break yet!



Yeah, I know...it was just weird b/c it showed up right around where me and my buddies hang out. I don't forsee the mower as a problem for regular use!!

Last November I teed off with a Chief, it hit a light pole and cracked right in half.

hey dave--can you or someone run down the currently produced sabres? [plastics, stabilitys] i have one about a year old, peach/orange 176 evolution . with a lot of dome. not at all see-through. i like the way this flies and would like to get something similar, maybe in s plastic. thanks

Well the colder the disc, the more likely it will break. I learned this the hard way. I broke a 10x Roc when I hit a branch a couple years ago.

Dave, Ozzy called me today and got me all straightened away. Talked to Justin too, said the discs went out today and could be to me by tomorrow. Thanks though.

Last November I teed off with a Chief, it hit a light pole and cracked right in half.



Thats gotta be rare..."H" plastic (IE Chiefs) stay very flexible even in extreme conditions. How cold was it!?

There may have been a week spot in the plastic too.

*shrug*

I should be getting my new Chief tomorrow or Friday...yay! Hopefully in time to get a couple rounds with it as my short range driver/approach.

Hey Dave when does Nikko get out of school? Also was KWCO on the agenda for this summer? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Hey, I have a question about Gateway Discs.


(insert smiling devil emoticon here)

Yes Mark I know what your name for gateway is/was. Bender told me at TX states but I have come to the devil my friend. :o:D:o

Yeah, I know. I cried all night when I heard the news.

But, I still have a question.

I think Vinnie cried when he found out that I had beaten him throwing all gateway. :D:D

OK Mark,
Ill take your bait.
Whats the question?

c'mon Mark what is it?

Hey Dave when does Nikko get out of school? Also was KWCO on the agenda for this summer? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


Matt,
Kansas City is one we are going to for sure.
Maybe you could come back to St louis for a week or 2 after that event.
You afraid to ride on a bus up here?

OH,
I get it, you have a question about our existance.
Let me guess Matt beat you too :o

Just a report on wizard plastics...

Was around 20 degrees out today, and lots of semi dense powdery snow on the ground (like the stuff that snowboarders dream about), and I noticed that the medium firmness s plastic wizard and supersoft wizard liked to have the snow freeze to the disc. Like after trying to wipe the disc off, there would be tiny ice droplets frozen to the disc still that were hard to get off. The snow came off very easily with the soft s and h plastic wizards. I didn't throw the e because its white and snow is white so you get the picture.

I would have to say that I have beaten Mark 1 or 2 times. :D:DYeah I could ride a bus I ain't skeered. :D

Jack the Base polymer in the Wizard is very porous on the surface. If you looked closely at it with a microscope you could rally tell!!
Its one of the reasons they are so tacky and grab the chains so well, even when they are medium and firm.
The super soft has a special " additive" that migrates to the surface when molded.
If you say they wont hold snow as well I can belive it, but havent ever tested it for that.
I usually bang mine on a tree or the basket to jar the snow off before wiping them.

I usually bump mine on the basket or tree first too, and the medium and supersoft just seemed to have little ice droplets cling to it more than the soft s and h plastic. I think you're right when refering to the porousness of the disc. Thats what it seemed to have to do with to me. The h is obviously more slick than the other three, and my soft s wizard seems to have a more rubbery smoother feel to it than the supersoft and med s wizard.

What is the most stable Gateway disc, that is good for someone who tends to pull right

The most overstable gateway disc is the speed demon, but I wouldn't recommend it for just anyone.

PM me and we can talk about what you throw and how you throw.

****, snow at 20 degrees... it melts at that temperature up here :D

OH,
I get it, you have a question about our existance.
Let me guess Matt beat you too :o



Well, I have to admit. At least you're smart. You surmised the nature of my inquiry.

Still the "nanny nanny boo boo, Matt beat you," thing was kinda silly.

I thought people moved on from being mad the kid beat them to being happy they beat him like a week ago.?.?. :D:confused: :D

That was Dave being silly, Matt. I've never been mad that you could kick my arse.

And that was before you were throwing the plastic of the Ozark Devil.

You rock, and I've always told people you were gonna be awesome. This has nothing to do with you.

Now, go hold your 1st run Blaze tightly and dream of birdies. :cool:

I know Mark and you have always been a stand up guy in my book. Now if I could only catch your post count. :D:D

True Live Krew nailed it about stability if you mean most stable to mean most overstable. The speed demon is probably the most overstable disc on the market today of any company with the possible exception of the Xtreme. The most stable (meaning straightest) would have to be the sabre. That thing is as straight as an arrow if you release it right. The speed demon, however, is not right for everyone to drive with like True said. However, I love the disc in my bag and pull it out for skip drives and touchy weird approaches all the time. Also if you are ever golfing during a hurricane, that would be your disc.

I know Mark and you have always been a stand up guy in my book. Now if I could only catch your post count. :D:D


So you are now a Post ***** In Training there Matt?

Speed Demons are PIGS!

Just a report on wizard plastics...

Was around 20 degrees out today, and lots of semi dense powdery snow on the ground (like the stuff that snowboarders dream about), and I noticed that the medium firmness s plastic wizard and supersoft wizard liked to have the snow freeze to the disc. Like after trying to wipe the disc off, there would be tiny ice droplets frozen to the disc still that were hard to get off. The snow came off very easily with the soft s and h plastic wizards. I didn't throw the e because its white and snow is white so you get the picture.



Were they discs cold? I've learned that if I keep my discs in the trunk of my car I can go out and play a round and the snow won't stick to em like you described, but if my discs were in the house overnight and then I take'em out to the course snow is sticking to them all the time. Granted there is snow on the ground :D

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!! Great to see all the chatter about such a deserving product. In December i cured an addiction to pricey CE, 9x and 10x plastic by switching to GDS products.
I feel like my game is finally moving in the right direction. No more worries about lost discs......cause what i am throwing is easily and affordably replaced. i can concentrate on the shot, not the disc. Just wanted to give a BIG shout out to Dave Mac for the great product.

I have already graduated. Over 700 posts in 2.5 months. I have started posting at least 20 a day so I will reach 6000 in 285 days. :D:D

Thanks for the kind words.
Care to give a rundown of your starting line up?

That was Dave being silly, Matt. I've never been mad that you could kick my arse.

And that was before you were throwing the plastic of the Ozark Devil.

You rock, and I've always told people you were gonna be awesome. This has nothing to do with you.

Now, go hold your 1st run Blaze tightly and dream of birdies. :cool:


Mark,
It was a joke and I see you dont have a problem joking either. You always seem to get a little jab in where you can. Are you married?
I love to play the little mind and word games, If I didnt own this company I would surely play more often :D:D:D
Check you PM.

Just a report on wizard plastics...

Was around 20 degrees out today, and lots of semi dense powdery snow on the ground (like the stuff that snowboarders dream about), and I noticed that the medium firmness s plastic wizard and supersoft wizard liked to have the snow freeze to the disc. Like after trying to wipe the disc off, there would be tiny ice droplets frozen to the disc still that were hard to get off. The snow came off very easily with the soft s and h plastic wizards. I didn't throw the e because its white and snow is white so you get the picture.



Were they discs cold? I've learned that if I keep my discs in the trunk of my car I can go out and play a round and the snow won't stick to em like you described, but if my discs were in the house overnight and then I take'em out to the course snow is sticking to them all the time. Granted there is snow on the ground :D



Well yeah...that makes sense if you think about it...

Disc is hot, snow is cold. Snow hits disc and melts into a water droplet. THe colder it is outside the faster the water droplet refreezes into ice. onto the disc.

This is also why if you work a snowball in your hand a little, it turns rock hard.

I think the process is called supercooling.

you bet:

Drivers: e spirits s+e illusions and h speed demon(very beat and flippy)

Mids: s+e element s+e element x and s demon(trick trouble disc)

putter: s wizard med.

the element and element x are 80% of my shots. just love em.

you bet:

Drivers: e spirits s+e illusions and h speed demon(very beat and flippy)

Mids: s+e element s+e element x and s demon(trick trouble disc)

putter: s wizard med.

the element and element x are 80% of my shots. just love em.



Atta boy!

Are you married?



Is that a proposal? Sorry Dave, long distance relationships never work out.

You have a PM.

Like my buddy E_nigriTTus (the Swedish Spinna), earlier this year I made to switch to all Gateway plastic..... I'm still trying to figure out the right mix of discs to match my game, but so far I really like the results I'm getting.

In the bag at this time.......
2 soft Wizards - in my past life, I used Rhyno's for putting and approching and I was wondering how the Wizards would do as a replacement, particularly on those longer "flick" puts.... but I'm happy to report the Wizards work great.
S Element - turnovers
E Element - straight
E Element X - straight with fade at the end
Sabres - These have quickly became my "go-to" discs for many shots and I'm finding I use these both as midrange discs and as drivers. I've got 2 S Sabres (one beat for turnovers and a newer one for straight shots) & 2 E Sabres (one straight flying domey & one of the newer soft flat ones that I'm learning).
S Blazes - overstable mid/driver, also use for sidearm... got two in the bag, one beat and just put in one of the newer "less domey" discs.
Illusion - Really liking the H Illusions.... super fast and more distance than I've gotten from any disc before.
E Spirit - got 1 in the bag for those shots where I really need it to go left.

Here in the Triangle area of NC (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) , I'm right in the middle of Innova country, but we're working to spread the word about the great things coming out of GDS. At our last club monthly tournament in Durham, we had 27 people playing AM.... and the payout was all Gateway! Currently I'm trying to figure out a good date for our first GDS Tour event!!!!

Keep up the good work robbie!
If you get a chance call me on my cell 314 303 1488

how are the new e sabres [flatter] compared to the older domey e sabres. where do the newer s fit in? [flight wise]

Since my doubles partner is sponsored, I got to throw some of the new E Sabres and E Blazes last weekend. Very sweet discs. I think Gateway is almost there in terms of a complete set of discs.

IMO, all you need is a fast understable driver similar to a Valk or a Sidewinder.

how are the new e sabres [flatter] compared to the older domey e sabres. where do the newer s fit in? [flight wise]



I've only had a chance to throw the latest run of E Sabres a few times, but here's my thought's so far:

They are a little faster than the domier E Sabres, but don't have as much glide. They also are a bit more overstable with a normal throw, but if you really throw it hard, it turns over more than the domier discs.

In my brief time with Gateway discs, it's been interesting to see/hear other people's comments about the discs. In general, a lot of people don't seem to like domier discs..... I remember the first time a friend gave me an E Sabre, I looked at it and thought...... "d*mn, this thing is domey." Then I threw it and realized how nicely it flew.... and have been hooked ever since. When I got the latest run of E Sabre's, I showed them to a number of people and everyone's reaction has been "these things look great". From a sheer numbers standpoint, I'm sure the newer discs (clear & pearl white) would sell much better than the normal runs of E Sabre's since it's more like what players are used to buying from Innova & Discraft..... Whether that's a good thing or not remains to be seen.........

RD

Is that a proposal? Sorry Dave, long distance relationships never work out.



Well now that just depends on how strong of a person you are :eek:

Is that a proposal? Sorry Dave, long distance relationships never work out.



Well now that just depends on how strong of a person you are :eek:



Yeah Mark how much do you bench. :confused: :confused:

aRe dEe, just let me know when that GDS tour is gonna happen. you know i goTT yo back. where we from Gateway throwers gotta stick together.

GDS at Valley/Chapel Hill

Start at 9, finish first round at 11, 1.5 hours for lunch, second round starts no later than 1, 2 hours at Chapel Hill, awards then go home :)

GDS at Valley/Chapel Hill

Start at 9, finish first round at 11, 1.5 hours for lunch, second round starts no later than 1, 2 hours at Chapel Hill, awards then go home :)



Based on the lack of support for disc golf at UNC and the fact it's much easier to do a one day event at a sinigle course.... I plan on just using Valley Springs for the GDS Tour event..... Just got to look closely at the tournament schedules to minimize the conflicts.... and maximize attendance.

RD

yeah I know...I was just kidding anyway. I know how UNC is about disc golf.



Dave McC, I just sent you an order for the 5 mistamp disc deal. Look for a order from wjoyner@wcpss.net and that is me.

If you can't fill my order, shoot me an email and we can figure something else out. Thanks :)

The discs were left in my car which wasn't warmed up at any point (discgolf park is like 5 mins away). And the 2 pairs of discs were in the same bag also. My thought is that maybe it has to do with the angle and speed they enter the snow. Like if they enter flat they will have friction with the snow melting it just enough to have small droplets form to the porous surface adn then quickly freeze again with the snow covering the disc... That is a possibility of what happened, but i think that two non ice droplet discs do seem smoother than the other two too.

I'm sure we wil get pretty close.
Ill let you know what we dont have weight or disc wise.

Wow, that orc/teebird/illusion/sabre disc is making me salivate. Is it going to have a wide rim?

Wow, that orc/teebird/illusion/sabre disc is making me salivate. Is it going to have a wide rim?



I'd guess no seeing how its gonna be slower...wide usually=fast

I was thinking that the orc and illusion are two high speed discs. I don't know if the illusion has a wide rim, but I know a wide rim can make a disc faster, so maybe thats part of what he's taking from the orc. I don't like wide rims, my grip isn't very good and wide rims just add to the problem.

The Illusion has a wide rim and is probably one of the fastest if not THE fastest disc ever made. I don't think the Orc is faster.

Alright Dave...thanks

When I put my order in, I wasn't too picky about weights.

The klunker knows the duiscs and he's just trying to help :cool:
The disc is a hybrid of the sabre/illusion/orc/teebird. A very low profiled disc, with the wing length a little shorter than the orc, the transition over the top is similar to the teebird with the nose radius close to the sabre/orc. The wing concave is illusion/teebird ( TL version) but I may need a little more concave for stability and glide over speed!

Dave, I really appreciate reading this Gateway thread ... makes me more curious to throw some every time I read it. Since my folks live just a little north of St. Louis, and I will be visiting them in June (I'm in CO), I hope to make it down to visit your facility. It would be fun to see how you make these puppies.
I have been throwing a thumber with the Flick 150. The Flick is a very nice disc for this throw, for me. How do you think the illusion [in a 150 or so] would compare in flight?

The Illusion is Just as fast and most likely turns a liitle sooner.
The H and E could probably be thrown higher than your flatflick and you may wind up with more distance that way with it gliding better because it has a little dome to it.

You may want to try a Spirit as well for the thumber it would be closer to the flick but more gyroscopic( it has a longer and fatter wing!

Hey Dave, got my misprint package in the mail last night and all I can say is that you are on picky SOB if you call those things misprints. I had to search for imperfections on some and wasn't always able to find them. So if anyone was considering the package but was thinking they would get funky looking discs, you have no fears. I also stopped by the shop and talked to Ozzy and got 2 of the new CE Sabres. After just one round at JB this is my new money driver. I got one at 166 and one at 174. The 166 is a nice turnover right away and it just floats back at the end. The 174 I can get to flip up flat when thrown slightly hyzer but it doesnt' go right at all, just a little left fade as it dies out. But they are really sweet looking and very durable. Grazed a tee on hole 2 and couldn't even find where on the disc it hit. If anyone likes the Sabres, these new runs are money!!! :D:D

Word on those new sabres. Try those new yellow/orange E Blazes also. Those things are just money! Not quite as stable as the S Blazes, and they are much faster with that new plastic. I'm getting about an extra 20-30 feet with my E Blaze compared to my S Blaze. :D

Almost got a new CE blaze, but I didn't have much luck with the ones I have. I have the old 844 ones though so maybe that's why. I am loving the Sabres and use the Illusion when I need hyzer, spirit when I need more hyzer, and the speed demon if I need it to just be stupid overstable.

well the illusion has secured a spot in the bag perminently......it's just amazing for lond hyzers and long staigt shots if you turn it over ......also the soft wizard.....nice stable putter...good plastic....and the blaze....it is s plastic but its got a while left in it...does the blaze come in E plastic??? mine is so heavy it is awsome for shot spike hyzers and short shotgun thumbers.......and scoobies too if I could throw one...those 3 discs helped my game...filled in some spots and shots I needed in the bag......going to need more super soft wizards very soon.......

Yeah...they make Evolution Blazes

The Evolution Blazes are the shiznit. Pick one up as soon as possible!! :D

Yeah before they run out! :D

Yeah there are quite a few at the shop that I saw, but if they are as sweet as the CE Sabres they will be gone soon enough.

The new E plastic is taking the dye very well, especially the white E sabres.
Here is a link to some pics on e bay!
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZfrisbiefreak

Is it possible/has there been a run of clear E Wizards? Thanks in advance.

David:
Any chance of future runs in the 844 plastic? I'd imagine that Wizards in this would be money. Illusions too! Just curious.

I have 6 available on ebay right now. They end Monday some time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20851&item=7138781235&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Good Luck

hey do you guys not make the scout anymore? my buddy has one in the "medical grade polyurethane" plastic says it's older... is there a disc that replaced it?

thanks :D

What is the difference between 844plastic and the S-plastic?

This is what Dave said about these 844 discs.

"The 844 sabre was the original name and on the orginal stamp of our first 2 molds Sabre 844 and Blaze 844. Once we dropped the 844 on the stamps we started using it on a specific blend of material that we used in the Sabres, Blazes and for a few runs of Wizards. It was a flame retardent rubber that was meant for welding cables. It molded up very flat and with a lot of concave on the wing making them more overstable and more durable as well. It was quite expensive and needed extremely long cycle time to set up, so it was not very cost effective."

Hopefully this helps.

Hi dave!

I was just wondering how many of the prototype Soft Wizards were produced and how old they are? Mine is black, 174 grams, and has a Gateway Disc Sports Prototype stamp in the middle of the disc. I tried it out yesterday, and it is the sweetest, most perfect plastic on a putter I have ever seen. Not too soft, not too firm. Not to mention it is the best putter on the market! It seems to be a different kind of plastic than the regular Softs. I love it! :)

I have 6 available on ebay right now. They end Monday some time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20851&item=7138781235&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Good Luck



I was talking about other molds besides Sabres, but thanks.

hey do you guys not make the scout anymore? my buddy has one in the "medical grade polyurethane" plastic says it's older... is there a disc that replaced it?

thanks :D



Scouts were just Demons in different plastic. You should get the same flight out of a Demon, albeight a different feel...but same disc either way.

For me this isn't completely true. The plastic used in the scout domes up quite a bit more than that used in the demon. Furthermore, while the scout is listed as less stable than the demon, in my hands it is more stable. This may be due to the durability of the plastic, e.g. I've worn in the demon so it is less overstable than it was new.

The Scout is a Demon? wtf????
The Scout flew like a first run Z Wasp.

The Scout is a Demon? wtf????
The Scout flew like a first run Z Wasp.



Let me specify...same MOLD...but "H" plastic domes up more, so they might be straighter.

Gotta take a sec and give mad prop's to Justin Bunnell for his 2nd straight top 3 finish in the past few weeks. He took 2nd at Z-Boaz a week or two ago and came back with a 3rd place finish at the Memorial this past weekend. Way to go Justin...nice shooting...

I am going to have to borrow my friend's Scout and check that out for myself. I had a scout 2 years ago and I don't remember the mold looking anything like the demon.

Gotta take a sec and give mad prop's to Justin Bunnell for his 2nd straight top 3 finish in the past few weeks. He took 2nd at Z-Boaz a week or two ago and came back with a 3rd place finish at the Memorial this past weekend. Way to go Justin...nice shooting...



Definitely, he's definitely brouht his A game this year. Hopefully he can continue to step up his game and continue to play on the level of those he played with this weekend. :)

Is it possible/has there been a run of clear E Wizards? Thanks in advance.



Sorry if I missed the answer.

hey do you guys not make the scout anymore? my buddy has one in the "medical grade polyurethane" plastic says it's older... is there a disc that replaced it?

thanks :D


You probably mean medical grade polyester.( yellow or red)
This is the H plastic and we chose to only use the H for the Illusions,spirits, Elements and Eelement-X's.
The H is a little too heavy for the Demons mass and most scouts were H/S and difficult to produce.
I know where you can get some Scouts if you need them.
Marshall Street!

What is the difference between 844plastic and the S-plastic?


844 is a high end Rubber with a flame retardent package.
It was most likely the best S we have ever ran, but extremely difficult to produce. It took very long cycle times and was also hard to demold because it stuck in the mold.

We may run some in the Element-X though.

Hi dave!

I was just wondering how many of the prototype Soft Wizards were produced and how old they are? Mine is black, 174 grams, and has a Gateway Disc Sports Prototype stamp in the middle of the disc. I tried it out yesterday, and it is the sweetest, most perfect plastic on a putter I have ever seen. Not too soft, not too firm. Not to mention it is the best putter on the market! It seems to be a different kind of plastic than the regular Softs. I love it! :)


There have been about 2000 proto and prototype style wizards out of 30,000 total wizards we have sold!
Besides the ones you have which are among the 1st we also run a production version today. These could be stamped with just about anything!
What we do is shoot for a soft putter that weighs around 165 and add enough dry weight fliier( as opposed to a concentrate) to the batch to bring it up to 175. The dry weight filler will migrate to the surface of the disc and act like a permenant talc on the disc.
If you see a putter with white specs that doesnt have the arch stamp it is most likely prottotype style, but not the orginal ones.
Both types are very similiar in flex and feel.

The stamp on the disc may not always refelct when it was produced.
What ebgravinbg is on the back of the black disc you are talking about?

Is it possible/has there been a run of clear E Wizards? Thanks in advance.



Sorry if I missed the answer.


We did run some red TRanslucent wizards a while back, but most were 160-165 grams.
The ones that are clear are only like 140 grams.

david,how well you think that 140g wizard would be for the 50 mph gusts we were having here in oklahoma today? i just couldnt seem to keep my putter from flying away lol :)

david,how well you think that 140g wizard would be for the 50 mph gusts we were having here in oklahoma today? i just couldnt seem to keep my putter from flying away lol :)



We had the same wind today here in Omaha...it was kinda cool though, I had one of my longest shots ever, even getting a putt (missed ) on the longest pin on the course! CrAzY!

We may run some in the Element-X though.



Thats really exciting to hear!

Paul,
do you have a lightweight spirit or speed demon.
They will still work good into that headwind :D

i used to have a sweet 121g speed demon, it still had a bit of stability and a bunch of little bubbles in it :)

hey david, i sent you an email about some misprints, just wanted to check with you and see if you got it? thanks.

I dont think I received it.
Where did you send it to?

Hi dave!

I was just wondering how many of the prototype Soft Wizards were produced and how old they are? Mine is black, 174 grams, and has a Gateway Disc Sports Prototype stamp in the middle of the disc. I tried it out yesterday, and it is the sweetest, most perfect plastic on a putter I have ever seen. Not too soft, not too firm. Not to mention it is the best putter on the market! It seems to be a different kind of plastic than the regular Softs. I love it! :)



I am going to second the comment about the black proto putters. I have a 173 that is the best put and approach disc I have ever found. I normally have my 173 SS Wizard in my bag because I am afraid of losing my proto. By any chance is the black plastic any different than other wizards? I've got about 10 soft wizards, and none of them feel like the black proto material. As was stated earlier, not to soft, not too hard. I wouldn't mind finding some more wizards with a similar feel.

Chris

WE have probably had over 400 different individual runs of wizard. Each run varied from 30 or so discs to 300.
Recently we started producing runs of around 800 discs
( 300 lbs of plastic)!
There have only been 4 or 5 runs of black, chances are we may have a few lying around.
What stamp is on the disc and what engraving on the bottom?

Information on the new disc:
Players with less power definitely need speed to get distance.
The wing will be quite a bit shorter than an illusion but much longer than a teebird and closer to the orc. The rim depth and nose radius will be similar to a sabre/teebird, but the overall height will be closer to the orc again.
All this adds up to a smaller version of the Illusion with a sharper nose radius! :cool:

The height of the nose in relation to the overall height of the disc and the transition from the nose to the flight plate will be the key factor in any new disc.
These are 2 things that rely on the shrinkage and something you can only predict before molding.
These are very important in establishing the discs stability and can also be controlled by the polymers and profile of injection!

What do you think of another Name the new disc poll?

I think a poll would be in order. I have a few ideas for a name that I will PM you or call you with to see if you would like to put them on the poll. Can't wait for the new disc!!! I also threw an E Illusion yesterday, max weight, and was way flippier than my H's :confused:. Is this normal for the E Illusions to be less stable than the H's? Holla Back! :cool:

I think a poll would be in order. I have a few ideas for a name that I will PM you or call you with to see if you would like to put them on the poll. Can't wait for the new disc!!! I also threw an E Illusion yesterday, max weight, and was way flippier than my H's :confused:. Is this normal for the E Illusions to be less stable than the H's? Holla Back! :cool:



Look at the wing...there weere some "E" Illusions that had puffy wings...those are flippy...sounds like what you have...oh yeah, they were orange.

Sounds like a cool disc! As far as naming goes, weren't you gonna name a disc the Odyssey? Or is that reserved for a future disc?

I think people would be better qualified to name it if they had a chance to throw it first. So...you gonna send me one? : )

Right now all I can think of is the Ghost. I know its not great but you already got the Spirit and the Illusion.

Since it's a mix of several different drivers and there will be debate as to who the real father is, it could be the Bastard..."Wow, you really ripped that Bastard!"

Since it's a mix of several different drivers and there will be debate as to who the real father is, it could be the Bastard..."Wow, you really ripped that Bastard!"



Haha, thats great.

Chimera?

Pheonix? I liked odyssey too. I'd say Imp? but that'd be lame cause of the orc. Should play an RPG like Final Fantasy and get idea's from there.

I still like the whole "Bastard" idea :D

Good call Dead Head, it was 1 of the orange E's with the puffy wing. I like the way it flies. Unfortunatlly it was into a headwind that I test drove it into my Buddy's house at his private yard course after it flipped over :(. Costed me $5, a stroke, and eventually, a tie for first.D'OH :p. Gotta put my Jerry Spirit back in the bag!!! :D:cool:

Right now all I can think of is the Ghost. I know its not great but you already got the Spirit and the Illusion.



How about the Wraith!