wow, the basement of the basement... That puts it in perspective.

:o

Fixed. :p

How convenient to forget the Pro player pack valued around $115 for an additional Pro "payout" of at least $37,600. Apparently this $37,000 in sponsorship by "other entities" doesn't count because it didn't come in the form of cash. How sad.

Given the unending amount of complaining by some Pro players, why on Earth would any company want to give cash or merchandise to such an ungrateful group of entitled players?

USDGC Player's pack = Almost worth paying $250 for..........Worlds Player's pack = 85% junk

Sorry but the "Pros" also didn't get that sweet umbrella in 08' and instead received a beer glass and a Zone/Pig. Personally I would like to see HARD CASH in amounts equaling 1/2 the estimated player pack value. I think most players would like to see $15,000 added cash instead of $37,000 in overvalued "stuff".

It would be nice to see the manufacturers give cash sponsorships that were 1/3 as much as the merch they donate.I think most players would like to see $15,000 added cash instead of $37,000 in overvalued "stuff".

Player's parties are ok at best with many of them being limited to 21 and up anyway due to the fact the only good sponsorship we ever get is for alcohol. The best one I can think of was the free food thing in Iowa with the rest being...meh.

Also Suzette it isn't being ungrateful......actually maybe it is but I just want to know why the largest payout was back in 2000 when the dollar was 25% stronger? I also want to know why it is the PDGA gives $10,000 in "sponsorship", let's the club do 90% of the work, take $5 per player, and still feel the need to take 1/2 of what the club makes?

I have mostly given up on the PDGA going the direction I wish it would and hoping we can push the sport forward using something other than the PDGA's guidance. Maybe one day they will hire someone else to market the sport who comes up with a better idea than a online stream in the middle the week while people are at work.

I think I am going to take up curling or something......

Discette, how dare you try to apply logic, reason, and common sense to this argument - they have no place here.

Despite just leaving the basement of the previous Executive Director 5 years ago, the sport should already be rich enough to have six figure payouts at all Major events. There should be enough money to cover all the expenses of dozens of touring Pros. Even in these tough economic times, disc manufacturers and sponsors should be lining up to throw their "disposable funds" towards our top players. The marketing director should simply be able to snap his fingers and make all of this magically happen.

Because that's the way it happens in every other fledgling sport, right Matt?

How about the sport paying players who finish in the top 75 percentile more than their inflated entry? Most events I play pay out last cash their entry back yet worlds pays people halfway up in the cash the same amount!

How about making the WORLD championships more of a "can't miss" event based off more than the NAME...is that possible?

How about paying out more than the bare minimum as determined by the PDGA? Did all you skate by being ok with C's?

USDGC Player's pack = Almost worth paying $250 for..........Worlds Player's pack = 85% junk

Sorry but the "Pros" also didn't get that sweet umbrella in 08' and instead received a beer glass and a Zone/Pig. Personally I would like to see HARD CASH in amounts equaling 1/2 the estimated player pack value. I think most players would like to see $15,000 added cash instead of $37,000 in overvalued "stuff".

It would be nice to see the manufacturers give cash sponsorships that were 1/3 as much as the merch they donate.I think most players would like to see $15,000 added cash instead of $37,000 in overvalued "stuff".



I'm sure past, present and potential sponsors would be enlightened by your feelings on this subject. Please try and solicit cash instead of merchandise from one or two of them, and don't forget to convey that you feel the merchandise they donated or plan on donating is junk.

Let us all know how it goes!

USDGC Player's pack = Almost worth paying $250 for..........Worlds Player's pack = 85% junk

Sorry but the "Pros" also didn't get that sweet umbrella in 08' and instead received a beer glass and a Zone/Pig. Personally I would like to see HARD CASH in amounts equaling 1/2 the estimated player pack value. I think most players would like to see $15,000 added cash instead of $37,000 in overvalued "stuff".

It would be nice to see the manufacturers give cash sponsorships that were 1/3 as much as the merch they donate.I think most players would like to see $15,000 added cash instead of $37,000 in overvalued "stuff".

Player's parties are ok at best with many of them being limited to 21 and up anyway due to the fact the only good sponsorship we ever get is for alcohol. The best one I can think of was the free food thing in Iowa with the rest being...meh.

Also Suzette it isn't being ungrateful......actually maybe it is but I just want to know why the largest payout was back in 2000 when the dollar was 25% stronger? I also want to know why it is the PDGA gives $10,000 in "sponsorship", let's the club do 90% of the work, take $5 per player, and still feel the need to take 1/2 of what the club makes?

I have mostly given up on the PDGA going the direction I wish it would and hoping we can push the sport forward using something other than the PDGA's guidance. Maybe one day they will hire someone else to market the sport who comes up with a better idea than a online stream in the middle the week while people are at work.

I think I am going to take up curling or something......

Just curious what other sport you think you could play that would allow you to mouth off about the organization, the sponsors and the state of the game?
NBA? NFL? MLB? MSL? How about even trying it in collegiate sports?

How many would even tolerate your promoting of another league as better?

As for the curling idea, I am sure that disc golf will struggle but continue to grow without all the support you provide.

But keep complaining...I am sure it makes you very desirable to the sponsors that are looking for a positive image for their sponsorship dollars.

USDGC Player's pack = Almost worth paying $250 for..........Worlds Player's pack = 85% junk

It would be nice to see the manufacturers give cash sponsorships that were 1/3 as much as the merch they donate.I think most players would like to see $15,000 added cash instead of $37,000 in overvalued "stuff".



Below is a photo of the Am player package from 2009 Worlds. My Pro player pack looked just like this except I did not get a bag, a Lightning disc nor a "custom stamped special". I also got a foam Frisbee. Not shown is the free Star San Marino Roc players could pick up at the flymart.

Please enlighten us (and the sponsors) which part of this package is 85% junk. Also, please tell us as which items are overvalued. the values shown below were determined from reputable vendors like Sunking, Gotta Go and Disc Golf World.

Apparently I made a mistake adding these up. It adds up to $124.00 which now makes the total value of sponsorship $40,548. ($124 x 327 players)


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k266/garyE500/worlds%2009/playerpackam.jpg


KC Worlds tee shirt - $15.00. Heavyweight tee came in a variety of nice colors and were very high quality.
KC Yellow Dry Fit tee shirt - $15.00 at least.
(Yes, you may be able to buy shirts "like" these at WalMart for less, but both shirts had a custom imprint not available anywhere else on Earth. Both were high quality and both had excellent graphics.)
Ching JuJu $14.00
Discraft Stalker $13.00
DGA Shockwave $13.00
Innova Star San Marino Roc $18.00
Foam Frisbee $10.00 (I couldn't find this for sale - guessed at value)
World's logo large towel with hook $10.00 (I would say more like $12.00. Also a guess)
World's logo mini $3.00 - guess
Stacking Gateway minis $5.00 - guess
World's Logo Coozie $3.00 - guess
Deer whistle $5.00 - guess
Quest dealer brochure $0.00
Coupons - ???

Ching Velocity - cool but not needed and I don't remember if we got one or not. $5 to payout would have been nicer.

Minis- One of the better things and I actually use the set I received.

Deer whistle- Also one of the better items and I used it on the way back from USDGC.

Shirts- almost as ugly as the ones we got at USDGC and they are currently in my closet yet to be worn. $15 to payout would have been better to me.

Stalker- Actually pretty cool except mine went off the Cliff on #2 at Cliff drive.

Foam frisbee- One of the better items but still would have rather had $5 to the payout.

Pizza coupon- the type of thing I like in a player's pack and will actually use.


Also I received this info from someone a few days ago...."$230 entry * 327 entrants = $75210 + $10000 PDGA "sponsership" = $85210. The tournament shows $83276 as payout. Adding what you said $3000 in added cash leaves a discrepency of $4934. They isn't apples or oranges as far as I can tell.

$25 per player instead of the "players packs" would have meant $8175 in added cash.

Just curious what other sport you think you could play that would allow you to mouth off about the organization, the sponsors and the state of the game?
NBA? NFL? MLB? MSL? How about even trying it in collegiate sports?

How many would even tolerate your promoting of another league as better?

As for the curling idea, I am sure that disc golf will struggle but continue to grow without all the support you provide.

But keep complaining...I am sure it makes you very desirable to the sponsors that are looking for a positive image for their sponsorship dollars.


I am just one of the few vocal complainers who spouts out how they feel on the board. I have talked to at least 20 1000 rated players in the past month who feel like worlds in a rip-off. One actually wants to run an unsanctioned event called "better than worlds" which would be a 2-3 day event paying out $2500 for 1st.

That may not seem "better" but the entry would only be $100 compared to the $230 worlds entry where 1st got $5,500 (highest ever).


Also I'm pretty sure all those other competitors have a contract in which they are PAID to promote their organization. No matter how you think I feel all I want is to see the sport move to the next level so that our best worlds will not remain 2000'.

Yawn

I am just one of the few vocal complainers who spouts out how they feel on the board. I have talked to at least 20 1000 rated players in the past month

Matt,

You know you throw that line out an awful lot, and until we actually hear from said 1000-rated players and touring Pros themselves, it has to be taken with a grain of salt. If these players were so discontented as you would have us believe, then I have to think that some more of them wouldn't hesitate to be more vocal. Given your history, first as a high school student when you complained about everything in Houston on the HFDS message board, and now as you have continued your complaints on the PDGA Board, I really hesitate to believe whether you truly are the voice of the 1000+ rated Open golfer or touring golfers. With Dave Feldberg now on the BoD, one has to think that demographic is now VERY well represented.

No matter how you think I feel all I want is to see the sport move to the next level so that our best worlds will not remain 2000

You say that, but then you wage this whine compaign on message boards. As others have pointed out, it makes your interest group seem entitled and ungrateful. As even more folks have pointed out, when you call disc maunfacturers' and sponsors' products' "junk" then I'm sure it makes you look very desirable to the sponsors that are looking for a positive image for their sponsorship dollars.

Bottom line is that while we'd all like to see you and your skilled comrades compensated for your talent, the money is just not there. The sponsors just aren't there. The PDGA already kicks in $10,000 towards Worlds, and you'll never justify that amount increasing when it should be used to grow the sport of disc golf. Heck, some might argue that that 10 grand is already too much. Grow the sport of disc golf first, and then the money & sponsorship eventually grows and everyone gets their wishes. Give away more money at Worlds right now, and all we've done is given away more money.

You know you throw that line out an awful lot, and until we actually hear from said 1000-rated players and touring Pros themselves, it has to be taken with a grain of salt. If these players were so discontented as you would have us believe, then I have to think that some more of them wouldn't hesitate to be more vocal.

Why would anyone want to vocalize criticism when the inevitable response has proven to be:
if you renew each year seemingly only to publicly attack the efforts of volunteers & employees on this forum; then please, don't renew in 2010. The sport will grow just fine without you.

So, if nobody criticizes, it bolsters your position & if anybody (except for maybe one of the org's "friends" & cronies) does criticize, he is encouraged to quit the PDGA, which also bolsters your position through attrition of dissenting voices. Your beloved status quo wins either way. Sweet!

I don't believe increasing payouts at Worlds could be called "giving money away" when the cash stays inside the sport. Disc golfers participate in an ideally closed economic loop - or one that accepts outside sponsorship - in which money won usually goes right back into the system as entry fees or merchandise purchasing. This would not be classified as "giving money away" when the money comes right back.

...as opposed to allocating player entry fee percentages towards organizations outside of the sport. Organizations who move said money indiscriminately to people whose only qualification is the word 'need'. But that's not giving money away, because (join the chorus!) ...it's for a good cause. And yet the kid's cause of attracting and retaining dedicated disc golfers with better payouts is "whiny" and "unproductive."

A person who believes in Ice Bowls can hardly carry on about 'giving money away' to the PDGA's own players, the source of the PDGA's entire capital. Maybe the issue is that the players are tired of getting their hands bit.

Sarah,

Which does more to grow the sport of disc golf and is how our membership dues should be spent:

The E.D.G.E. Program, the PDGA Innovation Grant Program, DiscGolfer Magazine, PDGA Radio, marketing and other promotional materials, support of The Disc Golf Foundation and their Matching Baskets Program, and a myriad of other PDGA programs...

OR

assuming that disc golf is an "ideally closed economic loop" and that nearly all money won goes back into the system as entry fees or merchandise purchasing?

I don't believe increasing payouts at Worlds could be called "giving money away" when the cash stays inside the sport. Disc golfers participate in an ideally closed economic loop - or one that accepts outside sponsorship - in which money won usually goes right back into the system as entry fees or merchandise purchasing. This would not be classified as "giving money away" when the money comes right back.

...as opposed to allocating player entry fee percentages towards organizations outside of the sport. Organizations who move said money indiscriminately to people whose only qualification is the word 'need'. But that's not giving money away, because (join the chorus!) ...it's for a good cause. And yet the kid's cause of attracting and retaining dedicated disc golfers with better payouts is "whiny" and "unproductive."

A person who believes in Ice Bowls can hardly carry on about 'giving money away' to the PDGA's own players, the source of the PDGA's entire capital. Maybe the issue is that the players are tired of getting their hands bit.

I really don't see the correlation between charity tournaments and pro tournament payout considerations. Charity tournaments are almost always if not always understood by all participants ahead of time, and the player�s payback is mostly in feeling that a common good was accomplished. All who participate contribute, all pretty much get the same payback. Everyone involved knows how things will work out, and the consumer option (come if you want, don't come if you don't agree with the cause) is available to all ahead of time. No hands are bit unless the owner of the attached reasoning center can't comprehend what the purpose and payback of the tournament is.

Quite a bit different than encouraging more donations out of the bottom 2/3rds of participants or taxing participants of other tournaments so a top 1/3rd of a specific tournament gets increased payout.

Besides, who is to say which participants are the more needy let alone more likely to put the payback into the sport? The pro that already has enough plastic through their sponsorship? By this reasoning, any extra money should go to the am tournaments as they get paid in merch or merch vouchers. Vouchers that have to go back to supporting vendors and can't get diverted to gas stations, hotels, fast food restaurants or liquor stores.

Matt,

You know you throw that line out an awful lot, and until we actually hear from said 1000-rated players and touring Pros themselves, it has to be taken with a grain of salt. If these players were so discontented as you would have us believe, then I have to think that some more of them wouldn't hesitate to be more vocal. Given your history, first as a high school student when you complained about everything in Houston on the HFDS message board, and now as you have continued your complaints on the PDGA Board, I really hesitate to believe whether you truly are the voice of the 1000+ rated Open golfer or touring golfers. With Dave Feldberg now on the BoD, one has to think that demographic is now VERY well represented.



You say that, but then you wage this whine compaign on message boards. As others have pointed out, it makes your interest group seem entitled and ungrateful. As even more folks have pointed out, when you call disc maunfacturers' and sponsors' products' "junk" then I'm sure it makes you look very desirable to the sponsors that are looking for a positive image for their sponsorship dollars.

Bottom line is that while we'd all like to see you and your skilled comrades compensated for your talent, the money is just not there. The sponsors just aren't there. The PDGA already kicks in $10,000 towards Worlds, and you'll never justify that amount increasing when it should be used to grow the sport of disc golf. Heck, some might argue that that 10 grand is already too much. Grow the sport of disc golf first, and then the money & sponsorship eventually grows and everyone gets their wishes. Give away more money at Worlds right now, and all we've done is given away more money.

How many 1000 rated guys post regularly? Should I go through with my petition idea so that I would have their names?

Yes. I did complain on the HFDS board mainly about the lack of quality courses in the area and years later there is still only 3-4 quality courses that could host a B-tier out of 35.

Maybe I will take Yeti's advice and run my idea through Feldberg since he is on the BoD and also had the initiative to try and start a "players union" where ideas would be pooled then given to the PDGA.

Also $10,000 is how much the PDGA gives initially but they regain at least some of that at the end of the event (not sure exactly how much though).

I usually hear from these players at different PDGA events I attend so maybe that is why you haven't heard anything?

I usually hear from these players at different PDGA events I attend so maybe that is why you haven't heard anything?

Actually I talk A LOT to players at the many events each year I attend where I am helping out at, not playing in.

Actually I talk A LOT to players at the many events each year I attend where I am helping out at, not playing in.

Well I will thank you for that then! Sitting out pains me too much and you can't say enough about those who do without so we can have a good tournament.

Seriously though at least 10 guys in my last 2 tournaments I have talked to me about what i post on here. I am sure there are many who disagree but those who come up to me usually say they feel the same way as I do and would like to see more weight given to the event.

I have an analogy for Worlds that I will post later since I am trying to be nice.

Sarah,

Which does more to grow the sport of disc golf and is how our membership dues should be spent:

The E.D.G.E. Program, the PDGA Innovation Grant Program, DiscGolfer Magazine, PDGA Radio, marketing and other promotional materials, support of The Disc Golf Foundation and their Matching Baskets Program, and a myriad of other PDGA programs...




Ah yes, social programs to grow an economy. Obamanonomics at its finest. If we divert money away from the producers to non-producers then surely an economy will grow. How best to grow the PDGA? Make it economically feasible for players to play tournies! And yes, this does involve putting gas in your tank to travel and eating food to have energy for the event. How do you think we get to events, waive our magic wands and teleport to another city? On average, if a player drops $300 in gas, accomodations and entry fees to to to an A-tier or bigger another state away and then cashes for little more than their entry ( or not at all or only in plastic), they eventually quit travelling, which does the opposite of grow the competitive side of the sport. If you want to grow the PDGA, then don't make your dedicated players broke by playing. And I don't mean the Nikko's of the world who can travel anywhere and dominate, it's the mid-level players who may or may not cash that provide your true numbers. And by making middle payouts measly, those players end up giving up and sticking to weekend leagues. The sport itself will grow with or without PDGA social programs, but I think it's difficult for people who want to compete or TD to foot the bill for things like headquarters, international centers, salaried employees who process member dues, charity agendas and other social programs.

The reason I continue to point out the fallacy of Ice Bowls is that I keep hearing 'there's no money in the sport'. There is. We WANT to compete, we just don't want our money given away. You grow the sport with more courses in more areas. THAT'S how you draw the newbies. Their friends will do it. Course Development Events should replace Ice Bowls. You think it grows the sport when you say, "If you don't support charity agendas, then don't come to Ice Bowls"? This can only diminish attendence.

Here's a question: Why not run an event where participants can choose to support a charity or invest their funds into course development (and I don't mean generalized course development; it should be specified, 'New tee-pads at Course X') Then you'll see how players really want their money invested. Maybe offer players the option to pay the TD (who SHOULD be paid). Or the option to put all their money into the payout. "Good causes" should be determined by the individual shelling out the cash, not the person taking it.

Also ensure that if you are going to advertise "the funds go to tee pads at course X" you really and truely have the approval of the powers that be to actually do that.

Here's a question: Why not run an event where participants can choose to support a charity or invest their funds into course development (and I don't mean generalized course development; it should be specified, 'New tee-pads at Course X') Then you'll see how players really want their money invested. Maybe offer players the option to pay the TD (who SHOULD be paid). Or the option to put all their money into the payout. "Good causes" should be determined by the individual shelling out the cash, not the person taking it.

Good causes are determined by the people who put together the benefits. Be it dinners, brat fries, bake sales, socials or disc golf events. Not exclusive to our sport by any means. If not so, then you would have an even harder time trying to find people willing to take on the burden of coordinating the event.

The individual shelling out the cash makes their decision by participating or not. If a charity event has high turnout, I think we already have found out how the participants feel about the cause.

As for the 'why not run', please feel free to.

"The fallacy of Ice Bowls." That's a good one.

If we divert money away from the producers to non-producers then surely an economy will grow. How best to grow the PDGA? Make it economically feasible for players to play tournies!
Based on your economic premise that money should not be diverted from the producers to the non-producers, how would you describe the normal tournament financial structure where the producers (TDs and helpers plus park personnel and commuinty providing the park for the course) are lucky to breakeven on cash and effectively lose large amounts of money based on valuing their time, versus the non-producer players (who think they are producers simply based on practice effort to get better) who not only expect to get their money back but additional money added by sponsors, most who typically get little or at least insufficient value for their contributions? Our disc golf economy that involves pros has essentially operated like inverted capitalism for some strange reason (tradition?). Perhaps it could be labeled "entitlements without socialist underpinnings"?

(This is not to detract from the pros who do both and have given back as producers be it TDs, course installers or teachers)

After reading this thread again, since part of the thread is gone from late nov to early jan.. It would seem that "the kid" is more focused on making the top 25% of finishers "more happy" than the bottom 75 percent who dont win cash or get very little cash. This is where the players pack comes in, every TD is torn between a fat added cash payout for the top players or a fatter players pack that goes to 100 percent of the players?...
Most TD's would lean towards the players pack because it is automatic "prize award" to everyone who pays and shows up. This is what separates disc golf from other sports, the idea of having loaded players packs for all registered players so that no one goes home empty handed; as opposed to a fat payout and the bottom half going home empty handed. This is why i seriously reduced my participation in basketball, softball, bowling, and poker; the losers get nothing and the winners prizes vary wildly. Having a players pack reduces my stress to get something to bring home from placing in the payout, and allows me to enjoy my tournament experience more.

Disc Golf has several classifications of players and administrators, but one stands out, the "entitled" group, the group that condemns the work of others because they don't do it the way they think it should be done and offer no volunteer work of their own to very issue they are venting on, and then expect more and more for less and less....

You must think of the US government as a producer then, and tax-paying citizens as people who are whiny entitlists simply because they work to better their lifestyle. You REALLY don't think that dues-paying, entry fee-paying, merchandise-buying players are the producers of the PDGA? I agree with the assessment that the TD's are the other component of production, similar to business owners in the private sector. And just like our current economic structure, the PDGA takes the money directly away from TD's and players alike and uses it for social programs and salaries that many of us do not support. Based on the current US economy, is this the model the PDGA would like to emulate for success? I would say yes, I suppose so, since the government is growing itself alarmingly and the PDGA would probably like to do the same for itself.

If you really don't want to be considered an org with socialist underpinnings, then why not let the TD's keep that $3 - $5 per player per event. Aren't member dues, insurance fees and merchandise sales enough to support the giant infrastructure the PDGA has created?

If you really don't want to be considered an org with socialist underpinnings, then why not let the TD's keep that $3 - $5 per player per event. Aren't member dues, insurance fees and merchandise sales enough to support the giant infrastructure the PDGA has created?

TDs are free to run tournaments that are not sanctioned. It's a free world on that one, and up to the discretion of the people who organize events. The sanctioning fees are known upfront, the decision is made without coercion.

Sarah and Matt are also free to run as awesome of tourneys as they can, and they are free to choose PDGA sanctioning or not. They can cater to the pros, charge a $1000 entry, or raise all that freaking money for bigger pro paydays that they are always asking for in all the lame tourneys everyone else runs that they play in.

But then again, they've been free to do that all along.

Hope his attention to detail is better when marketing the PDGA:
We are pleased to have an enhanced Hybrid Pack from Keen, as well as a just confirmed Carolina Team Bag from Revolution to firm up our Prize list for The Memorial Broadcast! Sign up to Win... http://www.discgoflplanet.tv/memorial/index.php (http://www.discgoflplanet.tv/memorial/index.php)

Hope his attention to detail is better when marketing the PDGA:

OMG a typo!! How horrifying and he did it on Facebook of all places!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_IWEa-piqDSQ/R_Bgj19UHnI/AAAAAAAABXQ/xbEQImfXSrs/s400/mounthill.jpg

Enough molehills (and a litany of them have been described on this thread alone) do a mountain make.

[moderated]


Curling is cool.

Curling is the National sport of the Northern United States of America. (It has always been extremely popular there, but with the lower 48 taking a big chunk of their hockey aura away, curling has gotten even bigger.)

I'm just saying curling is a bad example in this argument. It has national pride and big followings, you can cover it completely with two cameras, and the strategic element in a confined space actually makes it kind of compelling TV. And its perfect for showing in a bar so you can land beer sponsors.

Maybe "World Scrabble Association"... :)

Maybe "World Scrabble Association"... :)
Except then you have problems with different languages. I think "The Hammer" and "Hard! Hard!" mean the same in all languages... :)

The "dead-horse" just got up and left...he told me, on his way out, everyone forgot what they were talking about and that his presence was needed more on a few other threads.

Seems this horse has chosen a bad "gig" - being on the PDGA Discussion Board must be rough on the poor fella'...

You must think of the US government as a producer then, and tax-paying citizens as people who are whiny entitlists simply because they work to better their lifestyle. You REALLY don't think that dues-paying, entry fee-paying, merchandise-buying players are the producers of the PDGA? I agree with the assessment that the TD's are the other component of production, similar to business owners in the private sector. And just like our current economic structure, the PDGA takes the money directly away from TD's and players alike and uses it for social programs and salaries that many of us do not support. Based on the current US economy, is this the model the PDGA would like to emulate for success? I would say yes, I suppose so, since the government is growing itself alarmingly and the PDGA would probably like to do the same for itself.

If you really don't want to be considered an org with socialist underpinnings, then why not let the TD's keep that $3 - $5 per player per event. Aren't member dues, insurance fees and merchandise sales enough to support the giant infrastructure the PDGA has created?

Well SAid Sarah!