PDGA can just refund or credit me my portion of the "opt for the magazine" this coming year and I'll send them back the 2 issues I've received in 11 months. ( I'll have them to you by Worlds I promise)

The delivery (or non) issue with this company is absolutely rediculous. Man up and run your [censored] business like a professional. Keep your word, provide to your customer what you've promised, don't give me BS excuses.

james, some are blaming the opt-in policy for the failure to deliver the mag. the other side says, BS - you got exactly the scale that was projected and used in the baseline plans, so the root cause lies elsewhere.

and a lot of everyone else says what camerelli says! :)

The opt out was a bone to the players because the fees were raised, a lot. If the fee didn't go up the opt out would not have happened. Renewals are too high. I sure miss DiscGolfer.

The concern about opt out/opt in (depending on you pdga politics) was that it put the magazine's future in danger. Perhaps not just on bid, but possibly moreso when things took tough turns........ Like now ......Start up issues, delivery challenges, having to compete with what came before and so on. Throw in a group of people threatening not to 'opt-in' next year, and we are very close to not having a disc golf magazine.

I think a magazine (or publication of some sort) is an important tool in helping grow the sport. Given that , I'll be 'opting-in' again this year. Not that I'm happy about the current state, but because I think a magazine in some format is important. I hope the %70 (or whatever it is) rate is maintained or increased so this magazine or the next evolution to come has a chance. If you think a mag is important, I'd urge the same.

for all those hating on the mag- go back and find a copy of DGWN the first year it was included as part of PDGA membership. look @ the quality of production and of content those first FEW YEARS. Rich has put a lot of work and money into this magazine, lets give him a chance.

do we really need to go back to Lynne Warren being a head writer? come on people

one thing that Rich had no control over is that after years of the PDGA mag being mandatory for members, we choose to make it optional BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDNT WANT DGWN....so dgwn has years of auto subcribers, then we get a new mag(something many of us wanted) who then suffers because people thought dgwn was worthless.

I got to have a couple interesting conversations about the magazine this past weekend with someone who has some inside knowledge about the mag, and I was really excited to hear about Rich trying to help out sport become more mainstream. so while its real easy to criticize from behind a computer, what are you haters doing to help the game?




the content of the magazine does not bother me from the one issue I have seen that I got at worlds, its more or less the fact that I renewed last nov/december and have still yet to see a magazine that I paid for, these constant lies and excuses about delivery are garbage, when is this dude going to step up and take accountability for failed promises, and when will I be receiving a refund??

The concern about opt out/opt in (depending on you pdga politics) was that it put the magazine's future in danger. Perhaps not just on bid, but possibly moreso when things took tough turns........ Like now ......Start up issues, delivery challenges, having to compete with what came before and so on. Throw in a group of people threatening not to 'opt-in' next year, and we are very close to not having a disc golf magazine.

I think a magazine (or publication of some sort) is an important tool in helping grow the sport. Given that , I'll be 'opting-in' again this year. Not that I'm happy about the current state, but because I think a magazine in some format is important. I hope the %70 (or whatever it is) rate is maintained or increased so this magazine or the next evolution to come has a chance. If you think a mag is important, I'd urge the same.



im not sure you can say we are very close to not having a magazine when a large majority of us have never seen an issue of this so called magazine that we paid for, where is the f'ing mag???? wheres the money????

james, some are blaming the opt-in policy for the failure to deliver the mag. the other side says, BS - you got exactly the scale that was projected and used in the baseline plans, so the root cause lies elsewhere.

and a lot of everyone else says what camerelli says! :)



Yes, it seems to be the end. The mag needs demand moving up that curve, and the opt-out will move it to near zero. Camarelli's sentiment is perfectly justified, a product is required for that fee, the opt-in wasn't sold as a subsidy. He, like most others, won't make what appears to be an opt-in mistake next year, leaving the whole idea of a magazine up in the air, I suspect or rather assume.

It really hasn't been a good month or so at all for the PDGA. I'll be very curious as to the future of the organization.

The organization will survive. A poorly managed periodical isn't going to take it down, nor will a small blip in web site functionality.

The organization will be fine, I don't think the magazine will hurt it that much.

I used to look forward to getting the magazine, reading about the different events/happening accross the world. It was great toilet material :D

My decision to "opt out" next year is not meant to break or discourage the publishers of the magazine. There is and old saying " Shame on you the 1st time it happens, shame on ME the 2nd" I look at the additional $$$ I paid this year as a purchase of a product. If I'm not satisfied with the product, I'm surely not going to buy it again. Not to say that they can't get their crap together and get things straightened out, but again, shame on me next year.

I own an advertising business. If I send someone some bad merchandise, or mess up their order, (in my mind)- I have 2 options:
#1. Send them new items, or do what I need to do to fix the problem

or #2 Say screw you, deal with it- and not get their business again. Here in NE Tennessee it's a small world, so option #2 is really not an option. Word of mouth is huge, everyone knows everyone and grew up together within a 100 mile radius. Growing up in Northern CA, it's absolutely mind boggling how many people know each other over here.

I'm not saying I run a perfect business, and that I don't occassionally run into problems, because I do. The issue is HOW you take care of those problems when they arise. I think the magazine folks need to step up and take care of the problem. They can refund money to the folks that did not receive their mags. Or, another option would be to offer the magazine for FREE next year to the folks that were signed up this year and had all of the problems.

The organization will survive. A poorly managed periodical isn't going to take it down, nor will a small blip in web site functionality.



You are probably correct. I am probably an alarmist as I always see these things (and others that I heard recently) as signs, tells of the future.

When I own a stock and little things go badly wrong, I view it as the tip of the iceberg and I sell. Hopefully, I am simply being chicken little.

If either FDM or the PDGA wanted to, they could scan each issue and provide a pdf to subscribers who do not get the print version.

that is still unacceptable we did not pay for a pdf version

The concern about opt out/opt in (depending on you pdga politics) was that it put the magazine's future in danger. Perhaps not just on bid, but possibly moreso when things took tough turns........ Like now ......Start up issues, delivery challenges, having to compete with what came before and so on. Throw in a group of people threatening not to 'opt-in' next year, and we are very close to not having a disc golf magazine.

I think a magazine (or publication of some sort) is an important tool in helping grow the sport. Given that , I'll be 'opting-in' again this year. Not that I'm happy about the current state, but because I think a magazine in some format is important. I hope the %70 (or whatever it is) rate is maintained or increased so this magazine or the next evolution to come has a chance. If you think a mag is important, I'd urge the same.



im not sure you can say we are very close to not having a magazine when a large majority of us have never seen an issue of this so called magazine that we paid for, where is the f'ing mag???? wheres the money????



Yep, I can understand anyone's frustration in this current situation. And I can understand why many may end up opting out next year. Unfortunately, it could not only kill the current magazine, but could also make it very difficult to come up with an RFP for a new magazine that any publisher of worth would even bother to invest the time to prepare and submit a bid. Any new endeavor would have to begin as a 'start-up': No initial subscriber base, no dependable initial revenues. It could knock us back nearly to the black and white 8 1/2 x 11 folded in half newsletter days as an 'official publication'.

Hopefully many will make the opting in choice based on what we hope the magazine will be when everything gets ironed out vs. what it has been over the past few months. If not, the resource may end up being abandoned.

Hey, at least we know that FDM has been working on the instructional video and the FDM gear store! I've seen ads on Google and on Facebook, so we know that someone is working over there. I mean they already have all of the money from the PDGA subscribers, so why not work on other ways to make money.

that is still unacceptable we did not pay for a pdf version



Agreed, but it could be a step, they have not even done that.

How many years does FDM's contract last? Can the Org. contact the other bidder for next year?

Regardless of personal feelings, an official publication that can be put in people's hands is needed. Even a black & white newsletter that's consistant is better than what the members are getting now.

a b&w newsletter could probably be delivered to those who want it more cheaply than the mag. all you'd need is the stuff that is normally on the pdga mag pages, ie event results and a couple messages that sound alike.

The concern about opt out/opt in (depending on you pdga politics) was that it put the magazine's future in danger. Perhaps not just on bid, but possibly moreso when things took tough turns........ Like now ......Start up issues, delivery challenges, having to compete with what came before and so on. Throw in a group of people threatening not to 'opt-in' next year, and we are very close to not having a disc golf magazine.

I think a magazine (or publication of some sort) is an important tool in helping grow the sport. Given that , I'll be 'opting-in' again this year. Not that I'm happy about the current state, but because I think a magazine in some format is important. I hope the %70 (or whatever it is) rate is maintained or increased so this magazine or the next evolution to come has a chance. If you think a mag is important, I'd urge the same.



im not sure you can say we are very close to not having a magazine when a large majority of us have never seen an issue of this so called magazine that we paid for, where is the f'ing mag???? wheres the money????



Yep, I can understand anyone's frustration in this current situation. And I can understand why many may end up opting out next year. Unfortunately, it could not only kill the current magazine, but could also make it very difficult to come up with an RFP for a new magazine that any publisher of worth would even bother to invest the time to prepare and submit a bid. Any new endeavor would have to begin as a 'start-up': No initial subscriber base, no dependable initial revenues. It could knock us back nearly to the black and white 8 1/2 x 11 folded in half newsletter days as an 'official publication'.

Hopefully many will make the opting in choice based on what we hope the magazine will be when everything gets ironed out vs. what it has been over the past few months. If not, the resource may end up being abandoned.




why would i continue paying for something I have never received??? should i just flush my money down the toilet??? can i steal money from you if i promise a magazine in return?? does encouraging a shady business look good on our sport?? what a joke, wheres my $$$ FDM, where's the $$$???

that is still unacceptable we did not pay for a pdf version



Agreed, but it could be a step, they have not even done that.



no, the right step is to give me money back or publish a magazine that your subscribers receive, fulfill what you said you would fulfill before moving onto other ventures, this really is not a hard concept to understand

I think alot of this board is split between the philosophy of being part of an "association/organization" and being strictly a consumer(PDGA member) dealing with a producer(PDGA or FDM).
Truly as a consumer what do you expect for $1.67 an issue, from an unheard of publisher with a circulation of maybe 15,000(no economy of scale), and almost no news stand presence.

I honestly think a more viable mag would require closer to about $2.35 an issue, or more, especially with our high expectations.

CAVEAT: I know nothing about the publishing business. However I am a member of various professional organizations and our periodicals do consume a great portion of our dues, and it would seem that the ones that consume the most, deliver the best.

Thank you! I don't understand how everyone can get so worked up over $10. I'm opting IN next year.

its not really about the $ as it is the principle

deliver what you promise

Thank you! I don't understand how everyone can get so worked up over $10. I'm opting IN next year.



PM me for my PayPal address please. I'm sure others are interested as well in you throwing $10 our way.

Thank you! I don't understand how everyone can get so worked up over $10. I'm opting IN next year.



I'll send you my PayPal address as well. I would pay $15 for a good magazine. What we have got so far isn't what we've paid for. I want what I PAID for, or I'd like a refund.

[QUOTE]
Truly as a consumer what do you expect for $1.67 an issue, from an unheard of publisher with a circulation of maybe 15,000(no economy of scale), and almost no news stand presence.


I honestly think a more viable mag would require closer to about $2.35 an issue, or more, especially with our high expectations.
{/quote}


What I expect is what I was told I was getting for my $10.


An "un-heard of publisher, with no news stand presence???

Maybe the PDGa is to blame for picking a bad company. Did they do enough background work on this company, or just go with them because they were .10 cents cheaper.???? Maybe this guy prints out of his garage. Maybe the PDGA should refund us all our money???

Thank you! I don't understand how everyone can get so worked up over $10. I'm opting IN next year.



PM me for my PayPal address please. I'm sure others are interested as well in you throwing $10 our way.

I regularly go to the newsstands and bookstores to buy magazines. It does not bother me to pay $5.00 for a mag that I'll read all the way through in a day or two then let the boys destroy it. I've cut way back on my subscriptions to magazines that come to the house, but we still get a few. I've never had such problems that I've experienced with FDM. I have often sent my money to a periodical in the hopes they will send me a magazine every month or so, and haven't ever been dissapointed. Maybe the boys at FDM got uber excited by all the $$$ money up front and forgot about the bottom line, which is putting print in people's hands. The trips across the ocean to exotic disc golf destinations are really cool, but the average golfer won't ever get to do that, and the FDM editor traveling (and taking the family) to Hawaii as soon as the PDGA's membership money comes in looks pretty bad. And then missing the first deadline, then the second, then the third, and the fourth tells me they're not serious about this endeavor, they are just looking for "easy money". The PDGA and several PDGA members don't want anyone posting negativity about "OUR" official magazine, yet the process of printing and mailing each issue of the magazine that our dues help subsidize leaves a lot to be desired.

How can the PDGA members make our voices heard if we're not supposed to say anything on this board?

CAVEAT: I know nothing about the publishing business. However I am a member of various professional organizations and our periodicals do consume a great portion of our dues, and it would seem that the ones that consume the most, deliver the best.



Incidentaly these periodicals I'm speaking of are published by "known" entities with proven track records or are owned by major media companies. Yes they demand more $$$ for the publication that has only a niche market, but they are and have been in the business of delivering the goods.

.

we demand answers

Thank you! I don't understand how everyone can get so worked up over $10. I'm opting IN next year.



PM me for my PayPal address please. I'm sure others are interested as well in you throwing $10 our way.



I'll need a pyramid scheme type of e-mail chain letter first. :D

I have received 3 issues so far, so I don't feel as "cheated" as those who have not. Am I disappointed that I haven't got my issues in a timely fashion, yes. Am I so worked up that I don't think my $10 was well spent on a nice disc golf related magazine, no. I've dropped more money on worse things.

IMO, FDM got off to a great start, then ran into some technical difficulties. I'm willing to give them some time (and my money) to work them out. I think the product is a good one and worth the price paid. If you don't, that's fine and is your right, don't opt in next year.

and by difficulties you mean taking trips to hawaii and worlds instead of producing a magazine? thankfully he had time to make a dvd and make sure the FDM store was running

Never heard of VACATION? What a great time to write an article. It wasn't a disc golf vacation !!!! He did the article on HIS paid vacation. The website had been in production since before the 1st issue came out. And he went to WORLDS so that he could get good photos, articles, and pass out the magazine. What a stupid idea for a disc golf company.

I can't wait for issue 4.

One thing I know for sure, is that after listening to all of you [censored], I would never want to make a magazine for Disc golf.

All of you who are so upset, instead of wasting your time typing on here, why don't you call up Rich and ask "Hey what can I do to help you with your magazine" Because apparently you all have lots of writing skills and free time.

Make the sport and the magazine better. Do something for disc golf. HELP OUT. Run a tournament, write an article, take some photos. Volunteer. But enough of the [censored].

Sure we haven't received 6 issues yet, but we do have 3, with a 4th on the way. And the first 3 were pretty [censored] good I think.

Now get outside and throw a disc or something.

And as for Disc Golf live......you have done some good stuff. But for the 2008 PFDO episode, not only did you list the wrong tournament directors in the video, you also got all of the distances wrong for the final 9. They played the short tees, not the longs.

So you're basically saying people who pay for something and don't receive it should simply shut up? These guys (FDM) accepted money to produce a product and have failed to do so, unless I receive three issues in the next couple of months. And yeah, I know a little about the publishing business, not magazines, but newspapers where you create a new product every day. And please lay off the high and might "do something for disc golf" rant. I've done that, too. I just expect what I've been promised.

People have a right to express their feelings, especially dues paying members.

rWc3523

Well, some people shouldn't be posting. I'm one of those people.

But I'll be nice. I'll be as nice as I can. I'll be pleased as punch if Flying Disc Magazine pulls through, makes it past its initial speedbumps, and -- even if it takes two years -- finally gives Marshall Street the six full-page color ads in its illustrious magazine.

The magazine looks good, represents us well to the non-reader as a flasher kinda mag for the coffee table with some good article pics and ads, with the most famous people our sport can muster.

And just two little things separate our only remaining disc golf magazine from absolute greatness: Editing and proofreading.

Those are two very different things, btw. Editing is big-time overview of not only what goes into the mag, how much of what goes into the mag, whether stuff goes into the mag, and then -- crucial -- getting the writers to write what they're trying to say.

Then proofreading. Get an anal English teacher who hasn't read anything or understand anything read a pre-print of the entire mag for mistakes, omissions, half articles, and stuff that makes no sense cause page 3 shoulda been page 4.

Pay her $100 to read the whole thing. If it winds up good a whole bunch of people will read the whole thing for nothing...especially if they're pdga members.

That's one little thing that boosts a magazine's status, good writing. There's some good writing already but some stuff could be tightened up.

Hey you heard it right here and whadda I know anyway?

The concern about opt out/opt in (depending on you pdga politics) was that it put the magazine's future in danger. Perhaps not just on bid, but possibly moreso when things took tough turns........ Like now ......Start up issues, delivery challenges, having to compete with what came before and so on. Throw in a group of people threatening not to 'opt-in' next year, and we are very close to not having a disc golf magazine.

I think a magazine (or publication of some sort) is an important tool in helping grow the sport. Given that , I'll be 'opting-in' again this year. Not that I'm happy about the current state, but because I think a magazine in some format is important. I hope the %70 (or whatever it is) rate is maintained or increased so this magazine or the next evolution to come has a chance. If you think a mag is important, I'd urge the same.



im not sure you can say we are very close to not having a magazine when a large majority of us have never seen an issue of this so called magazine that we paid for, where is the f'ing mag???? wheres the money????



Yep, I can understand anyone's frustration in this current situation. And I can understand why many may end up opting out next year. Unfortunately, it could not only kill the current magazine, but could also make it very difficult to come up with an RFP for a new magazine that any publisher of worth would even bother to invest the time to prepare and submit a bid. Any new endeavor would have to begin as a 'start-up': No initial subscriber base, no dependable initial revenues. It could knock us back nearly to the black and white 8 1/2 x 11 folded in half newsletter days as an 'official publication'.

Hopefully many will make the opting in choice based on what we hope the magazine will be when everything gets ironed out vs. what it has been over the past few months. If not, the resource may end up being abandoned.




why would i continue paying for something I have never received??? should i just flush my money down the toilet??? can i steal money from you if i promise a magazine in return?? does encouraging a shady business look good on our sport?? what a joke, wheres my $$$ FDM, where's the $$$???



I'm hoping many will have the foresight to look beyond the current situation and help support having an official PDGA or disc sports publication. I can understand if some can't get past what is happening now. I plan on looking beyond this and opting in.

And as for Disc Golf live......you have done some good stuff. But for the 2008 PFDO episode, not only did you list the wrong tournament directors in the video, you also got all of the distances wrong for the final 9. They played the short tees, not the longs.



Thanks for the misplaced slapdown, Sandy. Its character building to be blindsided, perhaps.

Just to clarify, Disc Golf Live video magazine has never included anything regarding the PFDO. Your criticism probably is better directed towards Disc Golf Monthly, a separate and fine video enterprise. I'd have expected someone of your position and knowledge to at least do some fact checking, which you seem to place high in your value system. But then again, your comments were meant to cut more than enlighten, near as I can tell.

Consider yourself lucky to have received even three of your promised six episodes this year. I've received one in the mail (or what was left of it). From what I can tell, there are a lot more unhappy campers than happy campers with this situation. Maybe having something to do with the creation of this debacle makes some parties more sensitive to criticism then others, but I can't be sure about that.

Joe

Maybe we should call this debacle "Sports Loop II".

The same thought crossed my mind, but then again FDM has already delivered way more than SL 1 ever did, so they've got that going for them.

Joe

And as for Disc Golf live......you have done some good stuff. But for the 2008 PFDO episode, not only did you list the wrong tournament directors in the video, you also got all of the distances wrong for the final 9. They played the short tees, not the longs.



Thanks for the misplaced slapdown, Sandy. Its character building to be blindsided, perhaps.

Just to clarify, Disc Golf Live video magazine has never included anything regarding the PFDO. Your criticism probably is better directed towards Disc Golf Monthly, a separate and fine video enterprise. I'd have expected someone of your position and knowledge to at least do some fact checking, which you seem to place high in your value system. But then again, your comments were meant to cut more than enlighten, near as I can tell.

Consider yourself lucky to have received even three of your promised six episodes this year. I've received one in the mail (or what was left of it). From what I can tell, there are a lot more unhappy campers than happy campers with this situation. Maybe having something to do with the creation of this debacle makes some parties more sensitive to criticism then others, but I can't be sure about that.

Joe



Hey Joe,
Do you want to place a wager on Sandalbagger editting his post to blame the "REAL" culprit?

He probably also would defend another PA Moderator(Who according to Jeff LaGrassa doesn't Moderate anymore)that doesn't follow through on what he promises either, and say it was our fault for trusting him to do what he said.

Keith (Never Forgetting) Johnson

Edditted to add current Moderator status.

Sure we haven't received 6 issues yet, but we do have 3, with a 4th on the way. And the first 3 were pretty [censored] good I think.

i have zero and renewed last November, absolutely no complaints with the content is looks like a decent mag, i would just like to actual receive an issue that i paid for besides picking one up at worlds flymart

Keith,

FYI, the moderation team consists only of Larry "Ching Lizard" Kruse & myself, with Executive Director Brian Graham hearing appeals.

Can we now count on you editing your post? :D

i have zero and renewed last November, absolutely no complaints with the content is looks like a decent mag, i would just like to actual receive an issue that i paid for besides picking one up at worlds flymart



I didn't receive my first mag, called the PDGA and they sent it to me. have you called anyone or just bitched on a message board?

: ) :

Perhaps biased folks should stay out of this discussion. I am biased because I have written for Flying Disc Magazine. But I also wrote for Disc Golf Journal and Disc Golf World News before it. If a new magazine comes out and they will have me then I will likely write for them as well.

First understand that I have never been happy with any of them because they edit my articles and screw them up. But all of them are well-intended efforts to promote the game we love.

My impression is that FDM is getting the grief is has due to expectations more so than results. And perhaps Rich Givens deserves the grief he gets and perhaps there are things truly out of his control. I don't know and don't especially care. All that matters to me are results.

To date none of the frisbee rags have been a model of timeliness. DGJ was closest. DGWN was always late (maybe the historians can correct me here but that was my impression).

If FDM had not promised a given number of issues then we would be looking at about the same results we had from DGWN.

Now DGWN was a more sedate publication. It did not p.i.s.s. off the most conservative members of the PDGA as much as FDM does. For me that check mark goes in the column for FDM. I like cuting edge stuff. FDM also emphasizes instuction more than DGWN, another check in FDM's column. But my personal scorecard matters little.

What really fascinated me about DGWN was that Rick Rothstein was personally radical while his magazine was not. Such a contradiction! I always pushed Rick to go wild and he always held back.

The new rag costs $10. Some of you even receive it. For those who do, Scott Papa's back page top ten list is worth that alone.

Paper magazines are an anachronism. Before long they will all be internet based. So love or hate it for $10 you are getting that much in entertainment value. Ok, this is a reach, but the folks who have never seen even one issue have gotten $10 in mystery and anticipation. :)

The sport of disc golf is volunteer driven. Even those who get paid something get paid far less than their counterparts in the real world. We should always treat true volunteers and pseudo-volunteers better than they deserve. Because if we do not they will leave us. Tom Schuellter left us. Rick Rothstein left us. If Rich Givens leaves us are we better off?

I wonder how many on the boards even remember DGJ and Tom Schuellter? To many, DGWN is/was the only disc golf magazine that they have ever had.

Yes I know.... for some of you DGWN is still the only magazine you have ever received... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I agree with Mark. We are better off WITH a magazine than without. It WAS nice when there were 2 DG publications.

The PDGA had its own inhouse publication called Disc Golfer in the late 80s and early 90s before contracting with DGW(N). Local, Joe Feidt, was the PDGA editor and he liked some of the stats I was doing for local courses. He asked me to prepare some charts and do some writing for the Disc Golfer. He paid for my first PDGA membership as a 'Thank You' for my efforts.

Back when it was less than a days pay to join I'm sure.

Membership in 1989-90 was $20 Pro, $15 Advanced, $10 Am. Disc Golfer was included with membership and came out 6 times per year. It was 20-24 pages with a separate subscription of $10/yr for non-members.

See, that's a reasonable fee. Hmm, with inflation adjusted...that would be...$35 Pro, $27 Adv, $18 Am.
I rounded, and you can get larger or smaller numbers depending on what you use as an indicator.

Cool Site
http://www.measuringworth.com/index.html

Hmm, I know we have more now than then, multiple full time employees at very good salaries, Internet site, Ratings guru, National tour, Glossy Mag...

I guess the value is there, but my income sure didn't keep up with the growth. So my griping is my own problem.

A disc back then cost...$7. that same disc today? $8.

The sport of disc golf is volunteer driven. Even those who get paid something get paid far less than their counterparts in the real world. We should always treat true volunteers and pseudo-volunteers better than they deserve. Because if we do not they will leave us.



Here is a quote that should be reprinted in huge letters and put in a prominent place at PDGA HQ so that everyone there can read it/live it on a daily basis.

See, that's a reasonable fee. Hmm, with inflation adjusted...that would be...$35 Pro, $27 Adv, $18 Am. I rounded, and you can get larger or smaller numbers depending on what you use as an indicator.


7% annual compounding from 1989 would double the number every 10 years. So that would hypothetically be $80 Pro and $60 Advanced and $40 Am for 2009 with newsletter/mag included plus lots of things like this website that are new. We've just had a flashback of what it was like in 1989 without a website. How did we ever manage?

"Even those who get paid something get paid far less than their counterparts in the real world."

and is 100% true for all of the volunteers. i would hope though our paid staff is receiving a very fair compensation for their jobs.

Rick Rothstein left us.



News of my "leaving" has been greatly exaggerated.

Wow, a Rick Rothstein sighting on the discussion board. I heard unicorns were rare but this is truly surprising.

So Rick, do you feel the itch to get back in the publishing business?

Keith,

FYI, the moderation team consists only of Larry "Ching Lizard" Kruse & myself, with Executive Director Brian Graham hearing appeals.

Can we now count on you editing your post? :D



They finally canned the other, or did he "retire"?

Either way, at least you, the ching lizard and Graham have common sense to go along with doing what needs to be done!

That's all the people out in posting land can ask.

Keith

Rick, its good to see a BoD member on the discussion board again!

do you feel the incoming website changes increase or decrease the PDGA's web hegemony?

Pat, Do you really think Rick will come on here and post anymore than the 4-5 total times he posted when he was on the BOD before? :D

And to Jeff LaGrassa - my post is editted for accuracy, and your PA pal still has INCORRECT slanderous info in his post. :p

Rick Rothstein left us.



News of my "leaving" has been greatly exaggerated.



Missourians say the darndest things :D

And now . . . a bit of positive news . . .
THANKS to Addie, I received my Issue #3 last week.
She has responded promptly to my concerns and has treated me like a valued member.
Thank you, Addie.

Thank you for the kind words, Jim. You are quite welcome.

We are all here for our members and hope people will contact us directly (phone/email) if there is ever an issue.

Thank you for the kind words, Jim. You are quite welcome.

We are all here for our members and hope people will contact us directly (phone/email) if there is ever an issue.

That is quite funny if you read it the other way. I've been wondering if there'd be an issue for about four months now. :D

my post is editted for accuracy, and your PA pal still has INCORRECT slanderous info in his post. :p



Considering his 72-hour window to edit has expired, it won't be changed now. :(

got my source wrong. Really I only posted because I'm so sick of hearing people complain about this magazine. Instead of posting about you not getting your magazine. Why don't you call Rich or the PDGA. Talk to them. We can't help you here. Why not take the time and write an article about your home course or club or something.


And sorry to the disc golf show I got the titles messed up on. I do apologize. And I think all of the media outlets for the sport are great. It's great having people with the time and dedication to help promote our sport in a positive way.

DISC GOLF IS THE BEST THING IN THE WORLD. With our patience and help, perhaps we can have a magazine that at least 51% of the people believe is a great magazine for our sport.

Now you can go back to complaining about the magazine.

my post is editted for accuracy, and your PA pal still has INCORRECT slanderous info in his post. :p



Considering his 72-hour window to edit has expired, it won't be changed now. :(



YOU CAN - It's good to be the King! ;)

But moderators don't edit posts for accuracy - they only act when posts are reported for mb rules violations, and only after a moderator agrees with the notifier that a rules violation has actually occurred.

Looks like Chris apologized and made amends anyway so we can move on. :cool:

just curious... is the trend of number of reported mb rules violations increasing, decreasing, or about the same

just curious... is the trend of number of reported mb rules violations increasing, decreasing, or about the same



I am proud to report that the number of reported mb rules violations, percentage of those posts found to actually be violations, and mb users on probation are all at <u>historical lows</u>. :cool:

Now that Rhett is gone! What a troublemaker. Damm long-haired hippies.

I would have apologized earlier except I was in Allentown playing Disc Golf!!!

But moderators don't edit posts for accuracy - they only act when posts are reported for mb rules violations, and only after a moderator agrees with the notifier that a rules violation has actually occurred.

Looks like Chris apologized and made amends anyway so we can move on. :cool:



I know that, but you take all the fun out of the conspiracy theories when you say stuff like that. :D

Thanks sandalbagger for admitting you picked on Joe for no reason other than not wanting to give someone else in your state a black eye for not following through. ;)
It must be something in the water with that state as another PA person hasn't followed through on a highly publicized bag sale either. :eek:

I'm beginning to think that Jeff LaGrassa is the only straightforward guy in the state along with Mela(I think the Technician is from PA). :D

Thanks for the kind words, Keith. Unfortunately some people would paint me as public enemy #1 (http://discussion.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=888750&amp;an=0&amp;page=0#Post8 88750).

You know, I have an excellent relationship with member clubs around my state. If you called up any of the following people:
<ul type="square"> J. Gary Dropcho and the Pittsburgh Flying Disc Society Michael Dropcho and the Indiana Disc Links Association Brad Lescaleet and the Whispering Falls Disc Golf Club Jay Gobrecht and the Codorus Disc Golf Club
Paul Wojcik and the Llamas of Gifford Pinchot State Park
Jeff Manatt and the Creekside Crawdads
Larry Entz and the Lime Bluff Wind Wizards
Bill Geibel and the Lancaster Flying Disc Association
Mike Solt and Bob Ziadie of the Pocono Bearclaws
John Duesler and the Friends of Sedgeley Woods
Big Dog Andrew Sweeton and the Bucks County Disc Golf Alliance[/list]
they'd have nothing but great things to say about me. Unfortunately however the great dysfunction and negativity from my home club outweighs all the positivity, and it robs me of all the joy I otherwise get from disc golf. :(

http://phenixlife.hautetfort.com/album/trip/aureole-petit_450.jpg

I'm not too worried about the other people in my state :) They are all good people. At least the ones on the west side of the state.

I apologized, because I was wrong. And would have done it earlier if I had not traveled 4 hours to play disc golf for the week.

As for the bag ordeal, has anyone called Josh?

I thought this was the "gripe about the magazine, even though you won't call the office to ask for your copy or opted out in the first place" thread. Is this now the "gripe about Pennsylvania disc golfers" thread?

I thought this was the "gripe about the magazine, even though you won't call the office to ask for your copy or opted out in the first place" thread. Is this now the "gripe about Pennsylvania disc golfers" thread?



Go back to your Montiel thread and leave my PA thread alone. :D :D

I forgot about Duesler, sorry John.

I must be the only one that runs into the bad PA guys then, cuz I also had 2 at Worlds that were fond of trying to skirt PDGA rules while playing on my card.
I must be the bad apple from PA magnet. :D

... I only posted because I'm so sick of hearing people complain ...



ROFLMAO. That's rich, bagman!

Now that Rhett is gone! What a troublemaker. Damm long-haired hippies.



Yeah that guy is so clueless! :eek:

Now that Rhett is gone! What a troublemaker. Damm long-haired hippies.



Only a month left... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

PA disc golfers are all crazy.

Are they all shady (http://discussion.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=889195&amp;Main=879564#Post8 89195) too?

If you want to hear what actually happened with this "shady" story continue to read...

Stella, JoshC, sent the bag from his girlfriends house. The bag was sent to Lefty_God and for what ever reason it was returned back to her place. Shortly after he sent the bag they broke up. Needless to say the female dog never told him about the package being returned for about three weeks. It sat in her living room collecting dust. Finally she told him about it and the bag was resent. I was in contact with both for awhile considering JoshC was unable to post due to his log-ins not working. Hopefully Lefty_God got his bag in the mail by now.

JoshC was not trying to make a "shady" situation out of this. In defense of him, he feels bad enough about this situation and considering he can't defend himself on the discussion board, I'll tell you that it was an honest mistake. The funny part is that he won't be allowed to post on this board once he gets access again because he will definitely will be on probation after one or two posts.

And now I can pat myself on the back for trying to peacefully resolve this situation even though I had nothing to do with it. :D

So when am I getting my next issue again? :D

'09? :p

hey. instead of complaining about not getting what you paid for why dont you just produce your own mag and mail it to yourself? if you really cared about disc golf you would. all complainers clearly hate disc golf and america.

If nobody complains about the organization's problems, how will they ever get solved?

If you're not experiencing problems with the organization or magazine, count yourself lucky.

love it or leave it.

i say we ban all of these "blame the pdga first" folks. just get rid of them. they clearly do not have the best interest of the BOD at heart. ban them now!

yeah, expecting things to be run well -- that's pretty inconsiderate, isn't it? i mean it's not like we want them to run this like it is a real organization

then again, maybe we can get a chunk of that $700 billion bailout package :p

ok.
aviarx you are up there with mr ignce as my #1 targets.
i will be petitioning for your immediate removal. like i said
love it or leave it.

and i can tell from you signature that you are nothing but a commie liberal and a whiner.

Yeah, personal attacks are much better than legitimate complaints. :p

just call it like i see it. i, as a true pdga member can say whatever i want. you pinko whiners clearly should bee silenced.

Just do the best you can and we'll try to get by with it.

riiiight....

I think the complaints have been spelled out thouroghly, and promises and apologies have been made, but for those who cite growing pains for a new disc golf company and that we should be patient are day by day losing the ground on which their standing.

Waiting for issue 4 has been about as long as the other ones, but the rhetoric and the complaints, apologies and reassurances have increased, but still no mag. Seems like a black eye for the PDGA, which stinks, but being told that it's on it's way for months and them reassuring that actions have been taken to improve the situation have yielded nothing so far.

It looked like FDM was turning a corner around the time worlds was starting. They rolled out the third issue, they got thier website up and running, they started producing videos and even announced a new instructional video, and their optimism that they would still be able to produce three more issues before the end of the year seemed like it might be actaully feasible.

Then, their website hasn't been updated in a month, they don't answer questions pertaining to upcoming issues on THEIR OWN FORUM, their board on this site hasn't been updated in almost a month, no new articles on their website, no mag, a PDGA board meeting where they were asked to explain and apologize for the situation, even established and successful disc golf companies are now chiming in feeling let down, all not very promising.

So maybe the whole community isn't supporting a disc golf startup enough, or maybe we're not whining and would like a publication that we can trust to have updated matierial and be a positive tool for our association. Our local club runs a B-Tier in April, I'm wondering if I submit the date now, if it will reach mag readers in time. who knows.

the content of the mag is great, the website was promising when it was updated, this whole situation is good for no one.

Rumor has it that the new mag dude is pretty much washed up, and there'll be a new mag for next year.

another real and contributing member destroyed by the blame game. unbelievable.

another real and contributing member destroyed by the blame game. unbelievable.



Just curious...What have you done?

I'm having a hard time taking A2inNH serious... That has got to be trolling.

what have i done? i dont have to answer to you. i love the pdga. is that not enough?

I also love the PDGA and I'm also complaining that I don't have issue 4 yet. I truly don't care about not receiving it yet but, I would also like to have some REAL answers to when I should be expecting it.

And no you don't have to answer my question but you're the one saying "you complainers" should do something to help instead of complaining. I also noticed you haven't play any PDGA events this year so I was wondering what you've done this year for the sport you love so much.

what have i done? i dont have to answer to you. i love the pdga. is that not enough?



If you don't play events, and you don't get a magazine...what exactly do you love about the PDGA?

i live in nefa land. nuf said.

The times they are a changin ........
Vibram Open is a PDGA NT event again this year ......

I'm having a hard time taking A2inNH serious... That has got to be trolling.

sure sounds like trolling to me also. not bad, either... and it worked a couple times :) if our website worked as well as our trollers do, we would be SET!

hey. instead of complaining about not getting what you paid for why dont you just produce your own mag and mail it to yourself? if you really cared about disc golf you would. all complainers clearly hate disc golf and america.



There a lot of things i disagree with, but this post is flat out stupid. I sure hope he is trolling because if he's not, someone missed their meds today.

I didn't sign a contract with the PDGA promising a magazine. Moronic thinking. I did pay $$$ to receive a product that I haven't received yet though.

What if you bought an item on EBAY, sent them the money and never got your item? I'd petition for my money back in some way or another.

I'm having a hard time taking A2inNH serious... That has got to be trolling.





so apparently the tounge in my cheek was not nearly visible enough.

Sir, My hat is off to you. Still got people after I unfairly called you on it. Camerelli's unedited post was gold! RMAOLOL. I loved the part about not loving america!

what have i done? i dont have to answer to you. i love the pdga. is that not enough?



If you don't play events, and you don't get a magazine...what exactly do you love about the PDGA?

he loves it so much that he joined even tho he doesnt play?

or maybe the opposite - he obviously HATES the pdga because by not playing in sanctioned events he is depriving them of the cash they so desperately crave. :D

Nice

Issue 4 is currently wrapped, finishing up production, and will be on trucks next week


this was from his appology slash excuse post Brain Graham asked him to put up on September 29th. anyone seen issue 4????? i have received the 3 prior issues so i know my address is in they're system but no magazine. what will the next excuse be. two weeks have passed since he said it was going out. i know they call it the snail mail but come on

so like where is issue#4, i thought it was being shipped weeks ago?

The IDGC received their copies on Friday 12 days ago that were likely mailed first class or even overnight. Bulk mail is supposed to be 3 weeks or so but perhaps some have gotten it already since it doesn't take that long everywhere.

what have i done? i dont have to answer to you. i love the pdga. is that not enough?



careful, you might get a stipend if u keep that up :o

btw, nice avatar :D

so like where is issue#4, i thought it was being shipped weeks ago?


is this your fain attempt at humor? .

Bulk mail is supposed to be 3 weeks or so but perhaps some have gotten it already since it doesn't take that long everywhere.


lets see if anyone responds to confirm your hypothesis. i hope so.

yes and the irony is that i have been warned for referring to you as a commie liberal whiner. which you clearly are not.

you better watch yo tone A2inNH....I'm 'bout sick of all yo complainin' bout not gettin yo [censored] magazine......

yes and the irony is that i have been warned for referring to you as a commie liberal whiner. which you clearly are not.



that's too funny! :D i could tell right away you were talented in the art of *satire*

but what do you mean by suggesting "which you clearly are not?" i voted for Obama so that makes me a commie and a liberal -- and i have done my share of criticizing the PDGA so that makes me a whiner.

so, unless you want me to file a complaint you need to apologize asap :p

note to moderator: as i was the alleged victim of his "commie liberal whiner" attack -- and since i knew right away he was kidding -- please unwarn him (otherwise you are likely to make those who have been warned on legitimate grounds feel like someone who doesn't belong has unjustly been cast amongst them)

thank you, it is all to easy to get this bort riled up. that combined with a light work load = mischief. all to prove a point though. we have the right to criticize the running of our organization without wanting it destroyed.

we have the right to criticize the running of our organization



how dare you sir! clearly you are a witch who should be banned! but to be fair i think you deserve a trial... so -- we'll throw your favorite putter into a pond. if it sinks: YOU'RE a WITCH!!!

Today is November 19, 2008. I have received three issues of the magazine so far this year. Will we receive the remaining three issues within the next 42 days? Is it a breech of contract if six issues don't come out during the year? If we only get three this year, do we get $5 off next years registration? Is there going to be a magazine offered next year, and if so do we pay for it and just hope it comes out?

Rumor has it that the new mag dude is pretty much washed up, and there'll be a new mag for next year.

if that's the case i hope they let us know soon because otherwise the opt out rate is going to go through the roof.

im fairly sure this magazine is just a mutual hallucination of the members of the pdga

No mag here and we usually seem to get ours in the 1st batch mailing

I have 3 mags but none since..

Along with the previous poster...what does happen if they don't fufill their contract?

Anything?

the real winners will be the association, because we dont pay the magazine until delivery (at least we didnt when i was there), but we collect the cash when members renew and opt-in. so the pdga is holding the cash. it will be up to the current leadership to determine what, if any, compensation or make-up is offered. members could demand that the portion of their unfilfilled mag subscriptions be returned by the pdga. it would be fair, but i suppose the likelihood of that happening is fairly small. a quick look at a current financial report would tell us if the cash is still there

where are the reports now? audits and budget? couldn't find them using the search function.

what about those who purchased advertising for the whole year in the mag? did the mag get those funds or is the PDGA holding them? If the mag is indeed dead, maybe the organization can at least send out a PDF newsletter to members which includes the Calendar and a few FYI's regarding changes to the website, etc. Also, maybe ad.s could be given for free to those who paid the mag but never had their ads published... i don't have any ad.s but we want those who do publish ad.s in our organization's magazine to feel confident next year. We want the advertisers and the magazine to work and succeed together -- right?

[at least some] transparency here would be very helpful. Brian, how about an update on exactly where we stand? is the 2008 mag. dead or just delayed?

http://www.nyworms.com/images/commonfieldcrix.jpg

the new approach seems to be ignore all discussion board chatter. not even the BoD has the {insert symbol of courage here} to come on here and discuss.

Pat, we are the PDGA and their job is to serve us so how could that be possible? This is the PDGA's forum and they just updated the website so surely they would use this medium as one avenue to keep the membership up-to-date on happenings that affect all of us.

If you cared enough to actually serve on the BoD you would discover just how hard they work on our behalf and how at every turn they try to keep us informed of their actions so that we can share in the vision thing with them.

oh wait, you did serve on the BoD... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

A wise member of the PDGA Board of Directors would post as infrequently as possible but read the Discussion Board religiously, for comic relief if no other reason.

I would wager the BoD is well aware of the opinions of the members who actively post, whether they agree with them or not.

Whatever discussions the BoD is having, on this topic or others, should not appear here.

A wise member of the PDGA Board of Directors would post as infrequently as possible but read the Discussion Board religiously, for comic relief if no other reason.

I would wager the BoD is well aware of the opinions of the members who actively post, whether they agree with them or not.

Whatever discussions the BoD is having, on this topic or others, should not appear here.



not posting their discussions sounds reasonable, but why not utilize this forum to give us an update regarding the status of the magazine? is the status of the magazine top secret? even if it is only to let us know something like:

dear members, we share your concerns about the magazine and are working to resolve the matter as soon as possible.

wouldn't blowing smoke up our arse be better than nothing?
or are results or the lack of them the only true guage?

AviarX inquired: wouldn't blowing smoke up our arse be better than nothing?

Rob,

If all you want is a little precisely aimed smoke be sure to assume the proper position. :)

Personally, I would rather be told nothing or wait for substantive information on matters of such minor importance. Vague non-assurances would not mean much to me. The magazine will come out or it won't. The magazine contract will be renewed or it won't. To most golfers, I'm guessing either way it is not all that critical.

Important information can be found at this website or by a calling the PDGA headquarters. I'm not sure what information you are looking forward to which might be included in the next 3 issues.

I would guess The PDGA BoD shares the frustration many have expressed on this forum because it falls back on them. Eventually a solution will present itself, whatever it may be.

"Eventually a solution will present itself, whatever it may be."

not a bad philosophy for a member, but a crappy one for leadership.

Is anyone at the mag keeping track of mailings or is it a lottery? I have got one mag (and that was from a Friend). What do I have to do to recieve back issues? .....

2009: year of the opt-out

I've contacted the publisher twice by email: once asking about delivery status and once to replace an copy that was half-destroyed. Both times I've received prompt and more than acceptable communications from him.

Posting on this message board won't have any effect on receipt of the magazine.


Is anyone at the mag keeping track of mailings or is it a lottery? I have got one mag (and that was from a Friend). What do I have to do to recieve back issues? .....

Personally, I would rather be told nothing or wait for substantive information on matters of such minor importance. Vague non-assurances would not mean much to me. The magazine will come out or it won't. The magazine contract will be renewed or it won't. To most golfers, I'm guessing either way it is not all that critical.

Important information can be found at this website or by a calling the PDGA headquarters. I'm not sure what information you are looking forward to which might be included in the next 3 issues.

I would guess The PDGA BoD shares the frustration many have expressed on this forum because it falls back on them. Eventually a solution will present itself, whatever it may be.



if the mag is drowning; lowering expectations makes sense. if that is the deal, i just hope this year's experience isn't used as *the* justification for no opt-out option next year.

and, if we do have a mandatory subscription, should not the mag be the official publication of the PDGA?

I would just like to get what I paid for..

I got issue #4 yesterday.

I would just like to get what I paid for..



IMO, If I would have already gotten all my issues for the year, I didn't get my money's worth. :eek: The new mag doesn't compare to the old.

you guys do know that its the PDGA who mails out the magazine, and not the publisher right?

The magazines that your affiliate club receive are not paid for by the PDGA but are donated to your club through a program funded and implemented by Flying Disc Magazine. The Mag you receive as part of your membership with the PDGA is paid for by the PDGA and sent directly to you by FDM as part of our contract with them. The same fulfillment house that does PDGA member fulfillment also does direct mailings for FDM, so that may be a little confusing.

Regards,
Brian Graham

I got issue #4 yesterday.



lying is a sin.....

Then calling me a liar is also a sin. :mad:

you guys do know that its the PDGA who mails out the magazine, and not the publisher right?



If you are sure that FDM ships to Appling then the PDGA sends it out ... then that extra step may explain a small part of the delivery problem. Seems like dramatic inefficiency. DGWN shipped from its home post office.

The postmark on my mag is Bolingbrook, IL.

Just got my #4 in Mpls. (from Bolingbrook, IL)

just got mine - Lee's Summit, MO

JUST GOT MINE!!!!... :DIssue 1 that is. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I now have 1-3. Emailed Addie last week. Thanks Addie.

Assuming most get issue #4 by roughly Dec 1....

Four weeks to compile and deliver 2 more issues.

Hmmmm.

OMG! It really does exsist!

http://www.esdgc.com/pics/issue_4.JPG

So speaking of the mag, will there be an opt out option for 2009? I just went to renew for next year online and there was no opt out option. Now I honestly can't remember what I paid last year for membership (AM1 without mag), but I am registering MPO for next year and the only listing is $75 WITH mag.

Is there going to be a lower fee with an opt out or are we being forced to get the mag? Just curious. I am renewing either way but I want to know if I should wait for a lower renewal fee.

if there's an opt out for next year one would have to be a fool not to take it.

Right you are John. I opted out this year. The mag was ok but I was never really all that excited about it. After the CF that happened this year it looks like I made the right choice. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I would like to have that option again this coming year but if I am going to be forced to get the mag like the old days, I will not let that stop me from renewing.

I would like to have that option again this coming year but if I am going to be forced to get the mag like the old days, I will not let that stop me from renewing.



i might....with the craptastic mag and spotty delivery or said mag, along with the new placeholder for ads(i mean pdga website, sorry i got confused as i think they're one in the same)...i don't really see much benefit to being a member other than a rating

...does become debatable if you're not playing any a-tiers or running an event and need insurance.

im guessing youre eitehr being dramatic or you didnt think through your response. with the # of pdga sanctioned tournaments you played this year, being a member saved you money.

he played 12 events, mostly lower tiers. nonmember fees would run him $120, but member events fees would run (quick math) 12* $3 = 36, plus $50 = $86.

so yes, membering did save him money. the averaqge member does not play that many events. the average the last time i heard was 4-5 events. at 5 the math becomes $50 nonmember fees against $50 plus (5 * $3) = $65. in cold hard dollar terms, its cheaper to be a non member for most members.

he played 12 events, mostly lower tiers. nonmember fees would run him $120, but member events fees would run (quick math) 12* $3 = 36, plus $50 = $86.

so yes, membering did save him money. the averaqge member does not play that many events. the average the last time i heard was 4-5 events. at 5 the math becomes $50 nonmember fees against $50 plus (5 * $3) = $65.



Once again, you are not correct!

The average number of rated rounds per member per year has hovered around 16. That's about 6 events per year since the majority are 2 rounds.

he played 12 events, mostly lower tiers. nonmember fees would run him $120, but member events fees would run (quick math) 12* $3 = 36, plus $50 = $86.

so yes, membering did save him money. the averaqge member does not play that many events. the average the last time i heard was 4-5 events. at 5 the math becomes $50 nonmember fees against $50 plus (5 * $3) = $65.



Once again, you are not correct!



where is the inaccuracy??? at least back it up. i showed my math.

if you guys would release some of this info people might become more informed. i know its easier to say "he's wrong" than to show actual figures, but thats not leadership, is it.

i know being a member saved me money and all but whoop-dee do. im opting out next year(if i can). if i can't, then i really really need to think about is.....the ads bring my blood to a boil more than anything.....the pdga had a really bad year this year, with the mag, the website(ads, hacking, the too long transition), membership packages being god awfully late....its pathetic and maybe my money is better spent elsewhere....

Pat, if you're a non-member i believe you have to pay the non-member fee in addition to -- rather than instead of -- the PDGA fees.

maybe thats what Brian meant?

so it would be?:

he played 12 events, mostly lower tiers. nonmember fees would run him $120 plus event fees of 12 * 3 for $36 = $156. as a member events fees would run (quick math) 12 * $3 = 36, plus $50 = $86.

at 8 events the nonmember is at $80 + (8*$3) = $104
member is at $50 + (8*$3) = $74

at 5, nonmember $50 + (5*$3) = $65
member = $50 + (5* $3) = $65

is that right?

PDGA event fees are $2 per player in C-tiers, $3 in B-tiers and $4 in A-tiers.

maybe thats what Brian meant?

so it would be?:

he played 12 events, mostly lower tiers. nonmember fees would run him $120 plus event fees of 12 * 3 for $36 = $156. as a member events fees would run (quick math) 12 * $3 = 36, plus $50 = $86.

at 8 events the nonmember is at $80 + (8*$3) = $104
member is at $50 + (8*$3) = $74

at 5, nonmember $50 + (5*$3) = $65
member = $50 + (5* $3) = $65

is that right?



:confused:maybe. in my experience the problem is that a lot of entrants usually don't even get that PDGA fees are taken out of the entry fee they pay -- they mistakenly assume their whole entry goes into the payout unless and until you show them what gets subtracted out.

from the organization's point of view, if you are a non-member you pay an extra $5 (or is it $10 now?) fee per event. i get the impression that they consider things like the 'privilege' of posting on the member DISCussion board (being subjected to the recent ad orgy notwithstanding perhaps), getting a rating, and a card that says you are a member and a pro (even if you're really not) to be worth the $50 or $75 fee by itself. an interesting experiment would be to allow non current members to enter events with no added penalty fee and then see how many people still buy a membership. if all these other privileges are a good deal i guess many of us would still care to join...

to me the best things my member ship brings is an overseeing entity to promote disc golf, and added $ to go to the purse for the true Pros at events like Pro Worldsand the USDGC.

personally i find it irritating that the PDGA leadership views posting privileges on this DISCussion Board as a perk for members only and that in addition to this they aren't apologizing for the overdone ad orgy going on. the 10 second delay to load DISCussion pages makes me want to run to another site like www.discgolfreview.com (http://www.discgolfreview.com) and leave this site in my rear view mirror, but a lot of the good people and threads i'm familiar with on this site aren't there...

the other thing that turns me off is the PDGA leadership's apparent fear of transparency and quickness to label whistle blowers as troublemakers.

Brian could post the correct math and do you and all of us a service, but he seems to prefer to simply point out that you're wrong :confused:

i know being a member saved me money and all but whoop-dee do. im opting out next year(if i can). if i can't, then i really really need to think about is.....the ads bring my blood to a boil more than anything.....the pdga had a really bad year this year, with the mag, the website(ads, hacking, the too long transition), membership packages being god awfully late....its pathetic and maybe my money is better spent elsewhere....



Come on Feldberg, Innova will insist you join and may even pay for it. You of all people should be able to get the PDGA leadership's ear. If next year's magazine publisher takes a "no opt-out if you want me as publisher" stance, and the Organization's leadership is less member-focused than we might like, we're simply at their mercy -- are we not :confused: :D:confused:

i know being a member saved me money and all but whoop-dee do. im opting out next year(if i can). if i can't, then i really really need to think about is.....the ads bring my blood to a boil more than anything.....the pdga had a really bad year this year, with the mag, the website(ads, hacking, the too long transition), membership packages being god awfully late....its pathetic and maybe my money is better spent elsewhere....



Come on Feldberg, Innova will insist you join and may even pay for it. ...



You do realize that Dave_Feldberg_Jr is not Dave Feldberg, right? I wish there was a notify mods button that one could click on for users. It's one thing to make up a name on the boards, it's another to impersonate someone that might be posting on here.

i know being a member saved me money and all but whoop-dee do. im opting out next year(if i can). if i can't, then i really really need to think about is.....the ads bring my blood to a boil more than anything.....the pdga had a really bad year this year, with the mag, the website(ads, hacking, the too long transition), membership packages being god awfully late....its pathetic and maybe my money is better spent elsewhere....



Come on Feldberg, Innova will insist you join and may even pay for it. ...



You do realize that Dave_Feldberg_Jr is not Dave Feldberg, right? I wish there was a notify mods button that one could click on for users. It's one thing to make up a name on the boards, it's another to impersonate someone that might be posting on here.




Yeah I think he knows it isn't Borg and was just messing with the guy.

dave is my hero, i want to be sweet at disc and cocky as hell about just like him....

Brian could post the correct math and do you and all of us a service, but he seems to prefer to simply point out that you're wrong :confused:



Rob,

My curt answers are reserved for a very select few, like the former board member whom I was replying to who should know these things and has access to the correct information, yet time after time posts inaccurate or misleading information on this message board instead of taking the extra 30 seconds it would require to verify information and post actual facts.

http://www.pdga.com/documents/td-report

All competitors pay the $2/$3/$4 player fee based upon the tier of the event. Non-members pay an additional non-member participation fee. Many organizations do not allow non-members to compete in their sanctioned events. Others, like the PDGA, charge a fee so that our members do not bear the full financial burden of servicing these non-members.

Beginning in 2009, competitors who pay the non-member fee will receive a supporting level membership in the PDGA and will get a member mini with PDGA# and a rulebook. They will also be eligible to receive a $10 discount off of membership should they choose to join sometime during the year.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Come on Feldberg, Innova will insist you join and may even pay for it. ...



You do realize that Dave_Feldberg_Jr is not Dave Feldberg, right? I wish there was a notify mods button that one could click on for users. It's one thing to make up a name on the boards, it's another to impersonate someone that might be posting on here.

[/QUOTE]

yes, i was just playing along ;)

i too found it odd that he gets away with that -- i would hope that if he truly admires Dave he asked Dave's permission before posting here under an ID that people may mis-take as Dave himself. if it were me i would probably ask innova if they were okay with it too ... well, then again i wouldn't do it at all...

my suggestion would be for him to police himself and change his ID to I_Wish_I_was_Dave_Feldberg :D

Brian could post the correct math and do you and all of us a service, but he seems to prefer to simply point out that you're wrong :confused:



Rob,

My curt answers are reserved for a very select few, like the former board member whom I was replying to who should know these things and has access to the correct information, yet time after time posts inaccurate or misleading information on this message board instead of taking the extra 30 seconds it would require to verify information and post actual facts.

http://www.pdga.com/documents/td-report

All competitors pay the $2/$3/$4 player fee based upon the tier of the event. Non-members pay an additional non-member participation fee. Many organizations do not allow non-members to compete in their sanctioned events. Others, like the PDGA, charge a fee so that our members do not bear the full financial burden of servicing these non-members.

Beginning in 2009, competitors who pay the non-member fee will receive a supporting level membership in the PDGA and will get a member mini with PDGA# and a rulebook. They will also be eligible to receive a $10 discount off of membership should they choose to join sometime during the year.

Happy Thanksgiving!



Thanks Brian for the post. The great thing about addressing the subject of the post rather than the poster is that the audience here is everyone tuned in and not just the personalities involved. Simply posting the real info does everyone a service.

Pat cares a lot about disc golf and it seems to me really wants what is in the PDGA's best interest -- as i am confident you do as well. While we may not agree on particulars, i think we all share many of the same larger goals.

Thanks again for posting the link and the correct information -- while it may take only 30 seconds to find by those versed in where to go to find it -- it can take a lot longer for those not as familiar with it as you are. Happy Thanksgiving to you &amp; everyone!

or maybe i should change my name to you_cant_beat_dave_feldberg_ask_him_He'll_tell_you

Using the name: The Collective could be a humorous reference to the Borg.

or maybe i should change my name to you_cant_beat_dave_feldberg_ask_him_He'll_tell_you



i like that one :D

bonus points for capitalizing "He"

Sooooo...since this got lost in a tangent about why the PDGA does or doesn't suck, I will ask again.


So speaking of the mag, will there be an opt out option for 2009? I just went to renew for next year online and there was no opt out option. Now I honestly can't remember what I paid last year for membership (AM1 without mag), but I am registering MPO for next year and the only listing is $75 WITH mag.

Is there going to be a lower fee with an opt out or are we being forced to get the mag? Just curious. I am renewing either way but I want to know if I should wait for a lower renewal fee.



Anybody have an answer?

Brian?

Chuck, do you have any insider info?

I just want to know if I should renew now or wait.

I'm waiting to hear like the rest of us. I usually renew thru the MFA to help get enough renewals for our club affiliate status.

Thanks Chuck. I guess I will just wait. I know it will probably be like $10 and that is not a big deal, but I would rather not pay the extra for something I really don't want.

speaking of plenty of people in my area have already gotten their mag...and i still wait.....i got issue 2 never get issue 3(except when the dude handed it to me at worlds and now i doubt ill see issue 4 unless i call the pdga....why is this such a hassle?

I signed up a couple weeks late this year and requested #1 but was denied. After what I have seen this year I hope there is an opt out for the magazine also. I used to look forward to them but that is no longer the case. I am not a writer or editor, but as a consumer I will say that the magazine bores me. I don't care if I get mine or not. Dear friends at the PDGA , hear my cry, like a voice in the NC wilderness, "SPICE IT UP". I hope that did not sound a whole lot like Emeril. Whatever,,,,,, ! Two cents doesn't buy what it used to. I'm gonna go look at the pictures in my National Geopraphic. Stupid cold rain anyway. Walked two hours in it working on 9 new holes in a park here and I am in no mood to be trifled with. Just kidding, and waiting for my Ramen Noodles to be done. Peace out.

I agree, this magazine is a complete bore. I had the same issue with DGWN as it was on its way out.

I will opt out if I renew next year assuming they have this option. I was impressed with the layout and the formatting of the magazine but its content was just subpar for me.

Its not for everybody but I can definitely see people liking it.

I was disappointed with the Am Worlds coverage. Rick Rothstein used to give Am Worlds short shrift. If our own official magazine won't cover the Amateur World Championships in its magazine, we cannpt complain when everyone else ignores our existence.

anyone else think its ridiculous that you can't opt-out for the magazine for junior memberships?!

content not necessarily suitable for younger kids... yet you can't opt-out for younger kids memberships.

anyone else think its ridiculous that you can't opt-out for the magazine for junior memberships?!

content not necessarily suitable for younger kids... yet you can't opt-out for younger kids memberships.



lol @ not-suitable.

come on.

what do you mean come on? if some of the stuff inside the mag isn't suitable for me to type here then how can it be cool for young kids to read?

dont get me wrong ... i'm fine with the magazine saying the things it does as I think its target audience is adults. my beef isn't with what the mag puts in it... just that the pdga doesn't offer an opt-out option for junior memberships.

I too find it kinda funny that they "give" the magazine to the juniors, as part of there membership, then make some of the content unsuitable for them. And then they won't even highlight the juniors as Jr. World Championship participants or even "Winners". I for one am quite miffed over this whole magazine issue. Good thing I get it for free as part of renewing memberships for my juniors, cause I myself would chose to opt out next year, although I do hope, for everyones sake, they get it right by next year.

I think it is nice that there is an option for a magazine. I will continue to get the magazine in whatever form it comes in next year. It would be nice if the information that is provided was timely. But with the internet, very few magazines can be timely. How about if the magazine is more of a historical document, and does a good job of providing in depth coverage, instead of glossing over information. How about giving all winners their due in the big events. All winners, all divisions. Instead of being timely, which isn�t happening, how about being informative or instructional? Not clever, but substantive. The magazine is something we can hold on to, how about providing some photos of the winners of all divisions.

The magazine is for the entire PDGA membership, how about providing some content with the entire membership in mind. There are many good stories out there, look at what 1000rated.com is doing, and try some of that.

Come on Feldberg, Innova will insist you join and may even pay for it. ...



You do realize that Dave_Feldberg_Jr is not Dave Feldberg, right? I wish there was a notify mods button that one could click on for users. It's one thing to make up a name on the boards, it's another to impersonate someone that might be posting on here.



yes, i was just playing along ;)

i too found it odd that he gets away with that -- i would hope that if he truly admires Dave he asked Dave's permission before posting here under an ID that people may mis-take as Dave himself. if it were me i would probably ask innova if they were okay with it too ... well, then again i wouldn't do it at all...

my suggestion would be for him to police himself and change his ID to I_Wish_I_was_Dave_Feldberg :D



For the record, it takes exactly one mouse click to see that user Dave_Feldberg_Jr's PDGA number is 32150, which does not match that of the world champion, and two clicks to see that his name is Andy Bawol. It's not really possible to "impersonate" another PDGA member on the PDGA DISCussion Board.

Maybe I should change my user name to JeffLaGrassa and change my avatar to something obnoxious and see how many people don't realize that it's not you.

Come on Feldberg, Innova will insist you join and may even pay for it. ...



You do realize that Dave_Feldberg_Jr is not Dave Feldberg, right? I wish there was a notify mods button that one could click on for users. It's one thing to make up a name on the boards, it's another to impersonate someone that might be posting on here.



yes, i was just playing along ;)

i too found it odd that he gets away with that -- i would hope that if he truly admires Dave he asked Dave's permission before posting here under an ID that people may mis-take as Dave himself. if it were me i would probably ask innova if they were okay with it too ... well, then again i wouldn't do it at all...

my suggestion would be for him to police himself and change his ID to I_Wish_I_was_Dave_Feldberg :D



For the record, it takes exactly one mouse click to see that user Dave_Feldberg_Jr's PDGA number is 32150, which does not match that of the world champion, and two clicks to see that his name is Andy Bawol. It's not really possible to "impersonate" another PDGA member on the PDGA DISCussion Board.



so you're saying that you'd be fine with me changing my name/icon to match the moderators?

there is no rule against it.

Come on Feldberg, Innova will insist you join and may even pay for it. ...



You do realize that Dave_Feldberg_Jr is not Dave Feldberg, right? I wish there was a notify mods button that one could click on for users. It's one thing to make up a name on the boards, it's another to impersonate someone that might be posting on here.



yes, i was just playing along ;)

i too found it odd that he gets away with that -- i would hope that if he truly admires Dave he asked Dave's permission before posting here under an ID that people may mis-take as Dave himself. if it were me i would probably ask innova if they were okay with it too ... well, then again i wouldn't do it at all...

my suggestion would be for him to police himself and change his ID to I_Wish_I_was_Dave_Feldberg :D



For the record, it takes exactly one mouse click to see that user Dave_Feldberg_Jr's PDGA number is 32150, which does not match that of the world champion, and two clicks to see that his name is Andy Bawol. It's not really possible to "impersonate" another PDGA member on the PDGA DISCussion Board.



and yet there is a member that was suspended for a year due to the same thing? double standards indeed.

and yet there is a member that was suspended for a year due to the same thing?



While it would be inappropriate for moderators to publicly discuss individual cases, the infractions that caused PDGA DISCussion Board probations and suspensions are clearly listed in the Message Board Disciplinary List (http://discussion.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=891111&amp;Main=800073#Post8 91111). Please note the reason plainly listed for that individual in question.

clearly

the following is correspondance that is posted with permission.

item 1, early march 2008:

&gt; Daemon,
&gt; We've had a complaint about your PDGA DISCussion Board username
&gt; 'CWojCry' and would like to request that you please choose a
different
&gt; username. Your current name treads the line as a borderline personal
&gt; attack and additionally results in confusion as to your identity -
&gt; some have confused posts made by you as coming from another message
&gt; board user.
&gt;
&gt; Would you please choose a new username at your earliest convenience.
&gt;
&gt; Thank you.
&gt;
&gt; Best regards,
&gt;
&gt; PDGA DISCussion Board Moderator



item 2, a few days later:

Daemon,

After a polite request to change your username was ignored, we took the liberty to change your username for you. You recently changed it back to 'CWojSad.' which is just as offensive. Because you were already on probation, you will be now subject to a 1 year posting suspension. When that 1 year suspension ends, you will be on a new 3-month probationary period. If you would like to appeal this decision, please contact Peter Shive, the PDGA Communications Director. He can be reached at: shive@uwyo.edu


Regards,
PDGA DISCussion Board Moderator



item 3, march 5, 2008

&gt;&gt; Peter,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You've got to be kidding me. I appeal this decision. Please please cite for me the definition of 'sad' being an attack. This is just ridiculous.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Daemon


item 4, march 5, 2008

&gt;&gt; Daemon,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I uphold the moderator's decision.
To employ a username that masquerades as another user,
unintentionally, is not offensive. To do it intentionally is at least borderline
&gt;&gt; offensive. To continue to do it, after being requested to is definitely offensive.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If you would like to appeal my decision, please contact Brian Graham
&gt;&gt; (bgraham@pdga.com).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Peter Shive
&gt;&gt; Communications Director



item 5, march 5, 2008

&gt; Peter,
&gt;
&gt; Who is that offensive towards?
&gt;
&gt; Thanks


item 6, march 5, 2008

&gt; Daemon,
&gt;
&gt; It is offensive toward the poster you impersonate, and also toward the
&gt; other message board users who are fooled by the impersonation.
&gt;
&gt; Peter Shive
&gt; Communications Director


item 7, march 6, 2008

Peter,
The poster that has a similar name to mine just let me know that he did
not notify the moderators and he did not have a problem with it. So you
are wrong, it was not offensive to him.
I'm not trying to fool anyone, I have had that username since September
or October. I hadn't changed it for 6 months. How could I offend someone

by 'fooling them'? It takes 2 clicks to see exactly who is behind a
username. There is no way I was trying to hide my identity or fool
people. My real name is displayed prominently in my player page.
Everyone uses a different name than their own, that is the point of
message board usernames. If one is confused as to who authored a post,
one could EASILY (with 2 clicks) see what the real name of the person
is. How would I be able to fool anyone into thinking I was a different
person, even if I tried?
I demand my suspension be overturned.


item 8, march 6, 2008:

Daemon,

We disagree.

If you want to appeal my decision, you should contact Brian Graham
(bgraham@pdga.com).

Peter Shive
Communications Director





now it looks like Deamon's arguments convinced the Moderators that impersonation is OK... too bad he had to serve his full sentence. one cannot tell which moderator issued the sentence in the first place... twould truly be ironic if the same one who gave Deamon the boot is now defending the right to use someone elses name.

Back to the rag....er...mag:

November 10th in an e-mail to me from PDGA HQ, I was informed that they had received issue #4 of the rag on Nov. 7th. Well it's been 3+ weeks since then and still no sight of it here. Anita posted up-thread that she's received her's and i believe she is in Nebraska, so mail is getting across the Mississippi River.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM???? And YES, they do have my correct address.

Are we supposed to contact HQ every time a new issue comes out? If we could charge HQ a "contact fee" to cover phone minutes and wasted time it might be worth it, but it seems we are just left holding the bag......

Please keep my future issues and just send back my $10.00 (or whatever portion the mag hasn't squandered yet).

OPT-OUT FOR 09! (OO'09!)

Mine was delivered in Oklahoma today. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

What exactly is your beef?

is it some claimed equivalency between these two scenarios, so that you can scream "Hey, look at the hypocrisy."

Is it that this poor guy, when notified about his username, chose to ignore the suggestion, then changed it again in a similar way, then was suspended, after he had probably been put on probation numerous times? What an injustice: the guy is asked to act decently, he refuses and gets suspended. This is the kind of martyrs you trot out?

btw. I agree that usernames should not mimic, or impersonate others, but it is something that needs to be sent to the communications director, not the moderators.

got mine in NH last week.....

What exactly is your beef?

is it some claimed equivalency between these two scenarios, so that you can scream "Hey, look at the hypocrisy."

Is it that this poor guy, when notified about his username, chose to ignore the suggestion, then changed it again in a similar way, then was suspended, after he had probably been put on probation numerous times? What an injustice: the guy is asked to act decently, he refuses and gets suspended. This is the kind of martyrs you trot out?

btw. I agree that usernames should not mimic, or impersonate others, but it is something that needs to be sent to the communications director, not the moderators.




No injustice here! Well at least not as much as a Pro winning USADGC. :eek: :eek:

What exactly is your beef?

is it some claimed equivalency between these two scenarios, so that you can scream "Hey, look at the hypocrisy."

Is it that this poor guy, when notified about his username, chose to ignore the suggestion, then changed it again in a similar way, then was suspended, after he had probably been put on probation numerous times? What an injustice: the guy is asked to act decently, he refuses and gets suspended. This is the kind of martyrs you trot out?

btw. I agree that usernames should not mimic, or impersonate others, but it is something that needs to be sent to the communications director, not the moderators.




No injustice here! Well at least not as much as a Pro winning USADGC. :eek: :eek:



i know!!! i cant beelieve that the pdga screwed up so bad and let him play!! :o

my point is that he got suspended for using a name similar to someone else's... and that "crime" is now OK, according to the Mods. forget what else Daemon did or didnt do - he got suspended because his online name was similar to someone else's real name. and that is NOT against the rules - written or as they are now interpreted.

my point is that he got suspended for using a name similar to someone else's... and that "crime" is now OK, according to the Mods. forget what else Daemon did or didnt do - he got suspended because his online name was similar to someone else's real name. and that is NOT against the rules - written or as they are now interpreted.




It also was an attack username! Trying to make fun of the Am who almost kicked his rear end.

As Matt states, it was a username that was viewed as containing a personal attack. That is different than merely mimicing one's name.

i dont get it.

i bet if you drank some magic hat it would help you understand paul.

that is a personal attack. no one should drink that.

so smack talk is against the message board rules now??? (or ... it was against the rules at that time?)

you gotta be kidding me. and apparently it wasnt even the hacked name that complained.

oh well, this is from the bad ol days under a previous regime. maybe its better now.

Back to the Mag...

Did anyone, that is who got the newest issue, notice the picture of Liz Carr in the article Elaine King wrote? Ummm, that sure looks like Liz Lopez to me!?!?

so smack talk is against the message board rules now??? (or ... it was against the rules at that time?)

you gotta be kidding me. and apparently it wasnt even the hacked name that complained.




Whatever, you understand the difference, as does the other poster. It is really not deep.

Apparently, your argument now is that in order to be offensive, it must offend one particular party. So, if I create a user name "Soandso eats puppies," no one else but soandso can be offended, or it isn't offensive until soandso says so?

I only belabor this point because it seems that legit criticism by some parties seems to get drowned out by their incessant sniping at the PDGA.

I only belabor this point because it seems that legit criticism by some parties seems to get drowned out by their incessant sniping at the PDGA.



See Kernan, Mikey.

Got my Mag last week here in Cali.

i reported no one.....

got my 4th edition today, but my flatmate didn't get his at the same address and we did receive our Club bundle today also

we did receive our Club bundle today also



Club bundle of magazines, 2008 membership packs, or 2009 membership packs?

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/gotcherj/threadsucksII.jpg (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/gotcherj/?action=view&current=threadsucksII.jpg)

Back to the Mag...

Did anyone, that is who got the newest issue, notice the picture of Liz Carr in the article Elaine King wrote? Ummm, that sure looks like Liz Lopez to me!?!?



did just get my issue here in charlotte yesterday... noticed the pic... also noticed the article from Dave Dunipace but with a pic of Papa sporting Discraft logos like they're going out of style!

also who is dan "grinlley"? i know some guy with a name close tot hat got elected into the DGHOF??

BTW got a tattered and torn issue 4 yesterday.

Still waiting for mine here in San Antonio. Next year had better be better.

also who is dan "grinlley"?


That's Dan Ginnelly when he's smiling, which is much of the time... :D

November 10th in an e-mail to me from PDGA HQ, I was informed that they had received issue #4 of the rag on Nov. 7th. Well it's been 3+ weeks since then and still no sight of it here. Anita posted up-thread that she's received her's and i believe she is in Nebraska, so mail is getting across the Mississippi River.




Still waiting for mine here in San Antonio.



Fellow Texicans. The issues have made it across the Mississippi River and are in most of our bathrooms already. I received mine (in DFW) about 10-12 days ago.

Still waiting for mine here in San Antonio. Next year had better be better.



Is there going to be a next year??

Fellow Texicans. The issues have made it across the Mississippi River and are in most of our bathrooms already. I received mine (in DFW) about 10-12 days ago.




SO, it is coming by river? Are they rowing it down in canoes or what. Should be coming down the San Antonio River pretty soon now, I guess.

Michael row your boat ashore, cum by yah.

chck i know about dan..i was pointing out another typo.....

a little birdie told me that FDM has already been canned. that could be why the call to renew is late.

could just be a rumour, but my hunch tells me...

it's not a rumour!

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j79/JoeyTapes/KindergardenCop16.jpg

I think the most important thing in a PDGA print publication is having something you can proudly hand over to *anyone* - that does a quality job of showing the sport at its best. Second most important is a tangible "thing" to handle that arrives from the PDGA regularly. I can get my news and information on line.

Fellow Texicans. The issues have made it across the Mississippi River and are in most of our bathrooms already. I received mine (in DFW) about 10-12 days ago.




SO, it is coming by river? Are they rowing it down in canoes or what. Should be coming down the San Antonio River pretty soon now, I guess.

Michael row your boat ashore, cum by yah.



Mine came down the Colorado River today and I really like the "Great Holes" article starting on page 32. :D

One of the most important things members like to see in an organization's publication is their own names, those of their friends and those of the stars of the game. Take a look at the number of people concerned about seeing their results and ratings when our website had trouble and you can see that strong need in action. Before club websites, print pubs were the primary way to provide that positive benefit for members. But that need hasn't gone away just because we have a more hi-tech world.

Eleven or twelve years ago the first thing I did when I got my DGWN magazine was look at tournament results for my friend's names and mine, which was a thrill.

Since the advent of online results, that section has become utterly obsolete.

I cannot imagine a bigger waste of space in the last decade than the pages devoted to tournament results which appeared online months before.

It's a waste of space for everyone else's results but your own... just saying.

FDM printed an old version of our Flight Chart in issue #4. Boy am I glad we pre-paid for six full-color ads in 2008. Rich asked us to send him the "latest" version back in September, which we did on September 12, so it wasn't going to be all that updated anyway. Still, you wouldn't think advertisers would be so touchy about a little thing, but I'm sitting here with some smoke coming out my ears (no, not out my mouth and nostrils you jokers you!), and I must admit I'm slightly miffed.

In an earlier conversation with Rich Givens during which, admittedly, I was complaining, he tried helping me with some spiritual advice. He said I must hang around with negative people because I'm really negative. So I looked around at all the people hanging out and they weren't all that negative. Come to think of it, they aren't negative at all.

So that leaves just me, basking in my negativity, hoping that thousands of readers won't look at our FDM ad which we paid a big pile of money for.

when can we expect issue #5, i would guess on the current schedule some time around april?

So like uh when is issue 5 comin out????????

;)
PDGA HQ has their copies of issue #5. The workers are busy loading them on pack mules, in preparation for their journey along the Santa Fe Trail. Subscribers are required to wait at their nearest SFT depot for up to 6 months for their installment of the "latest" news.
;)

Eleven or twelve years ago the first thing I did when I got my DGWN magazine was look at tournament results for my friend's names and mine



you mean <font color="green"> Jeff LaGrassa </font> used to play PDGA events?

;)
PDGA HQ has their copies of issue #5. The workers are busy loading them on pack mules, in preparation for their journey along the Santa Fe Trail. Subscribers are required to wait at their nearest SFT depot for up to 6 months for their installment of the "latest" news.
;)



You mean they changed the mode of transportation from river ways to the mule, YEEEEEE HAAAAAW, ride em cowboy. Maybe they should think about the pony express.


Still waiting..........

Last year's mode of delivery was wagon train, but when subscribers kept complaining, HQ found out that the wagon train teamsters were deliberately leaving our mags in the bag on the loading dock so they never got delivered. HQ higher-ups decided that the newer, faster, more efficient mule trains were the wave of the future. No more delays! HQ only provides the best!

p.s.: Make sure you double check the address of your nearest SFT depot, you don't want to be left waiting for your "latest" news. ;)

Last year's mode of delivery was wagon train, but when subscribers kept complaining, HQ found out that the wagon train teamsters were deliberately leaving our mags in the bag on the loading dock so they never got delivered. HQ higher-ups decided that the newer, faster, more efficient mule trains were the wave of the future. No more delays! HQ only provides the best!

p.s.: Make sure you double check the address of your nearest SFT depot, you don't want to be left waiting for your "latest" news. ;)



unless the pack mule dies of dysentery on the trail along the way ;)

sucks about the ad southwick... you get what you pay for. Oh wait... you didn't ;)

Fellow Texicans. The issues have made it across the Mississippi River and are in most of our bathrooms already. I received mine (in DFW) about 10-12 days ago.




SO, it is coming by river? Are they rowing it down in canoes or what. Should be coming down the San Antonio River pretty soon now, I guess.

Michael row your boat ashore, cum by yah.



Mine came down the Colorado River today and I really like the "Great Holes" article starting on page 32. :D




;)
PDGA HQ has their copies of issue #5. The workers are busy loading them on pack mules, in preparation for their journey along the Santa Fe Trail. Subscribers are required to wait at their nearest SFT depot for up to 6 months for their installment of the "latest" news.
;)



You mean they changed the mode of transportation from river ways to the mule, YEEEEEE HAAAAAW, ride em cowboy. Maybe they should think about the pony express.


Still waiting..........



Sorry that I forgot to mention that mine came by mule swimming down the Colorado River. :o
Or maybe he got shot and was floating. :eek:

Sorry that I forgot to mention that mine came by mule swimming down the Colorado River.
Or maybe he got shot and was floating.



LMAO, I guess you still have some water up there around Austin.


Well, Well, Well,

Mine showed up this afternoon, Kathy found it out back in the crek( that is pronounced krek, for you non-hillbillies), tied to the backs of a couple of otters, land otters that is. What should I say, oh yea, better late than never....
:o
Ya'll come back now ya'here.... :D

Does any one really know the future of this magazine?

Done after this year