After reading other members experiences i guess i should be grateful that i at least received issue #1. I just want issue #2 to arrive sometime before the Players Cup so that i can see how the beginning of the year went. :D

I recieved issue #2 today in the mail, even though I never recieved issue #1 or my membership package.
And no, I've never call or emailed Addie because I don't care about it.

There's a disc golf magazine?? I've not see issue #1 let alone #2 but I did not renew until Feb.

Brian I'm sure you can work out an solution for next year with the shipping problem but it is Mid-April and those members who have not played any events and renewed, they have no perceived "value" of membership at this point.

There's a disc golf magazine?? I've not see issue #1 let alone #2 but I did not renew until Feb.

Brian I'm sure you can work out an solution for next year with the shipping problem but it is Mid-April and those members who have not played any events and renewed, they have no perceived "value" of membership at this point.



Hi Matt,

I agree with you wholeheatedly and that is why we are doing everything in our power to rectify the situation. Believe me, it irritates me as much or more than the members when someone doesn't receive their package in a timely fashion. The unfortunate reality of the situation is that once the magazines and membership packages have been shipped they are out of our hands and control. The only thing we can do at this point is to order a reship if it appears that the packages were lost in transit or undelivered. Of course, this does require that the member properly notify the office before we can start this process.

Regards,
Brian Graham
PDGA Executive Director

Love, love, love the front cover photo!

Love, love, love the big type font as I'm over 40 as well.

Hate, hate, hate the article from was it Sara? The photo of the gal looking down at the basket stating she didn't know a darn thing about this sport but was going to be around to judge and criticize it as she learned about it?

What was THAT all about? Just filler to take up a page? I can't imagine me writing to a say, NASCAR magazine stating I have no idea what you're all about but I'll be around to criticize and judge you all as I learn. HUH????

Can someone please explain why or how that article got in the magazine and what's the point? Is she going to be doing a monthly critique on all of us as we educate her and she educates herself on this sport/game?????

Still waiting for issue #2 but I would hazard a guess that they are trying to reach out to newbies by having a newby write a column sounds innovative.

I hear ya' Topdog! Never recieved anything - renewed Dec15th 2007! Was told a second renewal was sent in early March...nothing...talked to the folks who handle all of the mailings, and a third is being sent (1st class to my work address just to change it up) we'll see what happens.


I have talked to Addi several times to report not recieving mine as well! I have recieved both issue of the mag however! I also had mine shipped to work but was not offered the first class ship.... good luck maybe we can share a package :D

Still waiting for issue #2 but I would hazard a guess that they are trying to reach out to newbies by having a newby write a column sounds innovative.


I think that article by newbie Kara was in Issue 1.

I received my mag. nothing else comes with the membership anymore like a card or anything.

Still waiting for issue #2 but I would hazard a guess that they are trying to reach out to newbies by having a newby write a column sounds innovative.


I think that article by newbie Kara was in Issue 1.



Kara, Sara... I had the names mixed up.

Please see my post above as to ???? why a newbie wrote an article about a sport/game she's never even played? Was that to fill pages?

nothing else comes with the membership anymore like a card or anything.



You get a nice membership packet when you get it.

Please see my post above as to ???? why a newbie wrote an article about a sport/game she's never even played? Was that to fill pages?


I think they have a fair amount of content at least to get underway. Sustaining the level of content for a mag will always be a challenge. I think they wanted to have the first issue indicate a broader coverage of the sport than just hardcore disc golfers. I would guess they'll use that issue as their resume to try and crack into magazine distribution beyond just PDGA membership which is one of their goals.

got a quick look through the second issue (arrived monday) and it loolks like things are solidifying. i like the inclusive nature. Des's tips is solid for all players, and even better for early players. the ultimate article adds an interesting angle, augmenting without intruding. a good balance of interests and information. i'm looking forward to delving into No.2 more deeply.

[QUOTE]
Love, love, love the front cover photo!

<font color="red"> If you are referring to the photo on the Premier Issue, then ......Thank you very much.</font>

got a quick look through the second issue (arrived monday) and it loolks like things are solidifying. i like the inclusive nature. Des's tips is solid for all players, and even better for early players. the ultimate article adds an interesting angle, augmenting without intruding. a good balance of interests and information. i'm looking forward to delving into No.2 more deeply.



Arrived Monday, i'm jealous...you're like 5 miles down the road! Must be nice to have some new toilet material. Just remember, you get the service you pay for......pay a vendor a third class fee, don't be surprised when you get third class service. :mad:

this one is from a regular $20 subscription, i wonder if those get mailed earlier?

this one is from a regular $20 subscription, i wonder if those get mailed earlier?




I already got mine too Hero.

nothing else comes with the membership anymore like a card or anything.



You get a nice membership packet when you get it.



IS IT INVISIBLE? was it in with the i have been approved for credit envelope.

After having issues (pun intended) with the first issue, I'm happy to report 2nd issue has arrived. Thank you!

got a quick look through the second issue (arrived monday) and it loolks like things are solidifying. i like the inclusive nature. Des's tips is solid for all players, and even better for early players. the ultimate article adds an interesting angle, augmenting without intruding. a good balance of interests and information. i'm looking forward to delving into No.2 more deeply.



Arrived Monday, i'm jealous...you're like 5 miles down the road! Must be nice to have some new toilet material. Just remember, you get the service you pay for......pay a vendor a third class fee, don't be surprised when you get third class service. :mad:



Thanks for the second issue Hero :Djoking I got mine on Tuesday though!

As I was working my way threw issue #2 I was intrigued about an article on page 67, called "A course of course"
It briefly talks about various courses and the percentage of courses with 9 holes, 18, more or less, etc...Then it gets down to a part that reads this, and I'll type it out cause I want to quote it right...

"Avery Preserve is listed in the PDGA course directory as having no, none, zippo, zilch, zero holes. Ironically, it's located in Plainfield, Illinois; a plain field for sure. The course resonates of a fictional destination created for the wife's behalf. 'Gonna go play a couple of holes at Avery Preserve. Don't wait up for me'."

Here's what's funny to me. I lived in Joliet, Il about 10 minutes from here back in 02. That's when it was built and established as a 9 HOLE course. A couple baskets had been taken, it wasn't taken care of, more baskets were taken, etc...so it fell by the wayside. I actually played it when baskets were there, so in a sense I can say I played a course that doesn't even exist anymore.

Just wondering if anyone else has played there or if I can get in touch with Bill Flynn. (he's the guy who wrote the article) Or if anyone else has a story like that!

Was disapointed to see the tournament I'm TD'ing not on the schedule in issue #2. I wish that it had been posted on the PDGA Tourdates section a little quicker than it was...

Dana &amp; Other TD's,

The deadline for the office to submit the schedule of events to the magazine is a month or more before the magazine actually comes out. This means that in order to have your event listed on the schedule, you must sanction well in advance of your event. We send a list of all sanctioned events to the magazine so if your event is not listed, it means the office did not receive your sanctioning agreement in time for it to be included. The good news is that with six issues, instead of the four we currently received, there is a good possibility that your event will appear in the next issue depending on the dates.

The office also updates the online schedule on a weekly basis so your event should appear on this schedule within a week of the office receiving your completed and sanctioning agreement. I would highly recommend that TD's sanction their events at least three months in advance at a minimum if at all possible. This will ensure that your tournament appears on the schedule in the magazine at least once and it will give competitors adequate time to make plans to attend.

If you mail in your sanctioning agreement and it does not appear on the online schedule within a week, please do not hesitate to contact the office.

Regards,
Brian Graham
PDGA Executive Director

Man issue 2? I haven't even gotten the first one!

is anyone else still have problem with the quality of the way the mag has been delivered, i just received my 2nd issue in the mail last week and just like the first issue, the cover was ripped badly along with like half the pages. I received 2 other different magazines in the mail on the same day that were fine so i do not believe the the problem is with the carrier. I like the content in the magazine but have been very disappointed with the condition the first two issues have arrived in. It will be tough for me to renew my subscription in the future if this continues to happen. Everything else about the magazine I have been very satisfied with though.

im offended by your lies about satisfaction with the content although you could use some tips geared towards beginners....

My issues have both been in good condition with just a bit of wear from the trip..

What I am still taking issue with is the flavor of the content and language in the publication. I enjoy the tips and some of the articles but other content is still lacking.

Have any of you ever watched a TV show called Maximum Exposure, or Max-Ex as they call it? Well if you have you will have heard the constant narrative going on while they show you outrageous video clips. The person who does this narrative has a certain grating tone and choice of words, verbs nouns etc. that can be flat-out annoying and offensive at times. Well this is how my experience with reading this publication is at times. Using words like Dunno, and oh-eight etc...

Lets see what we got this time out: A very nice reference to the legendary instance of partaking of illegal substances in the airline lavatory and the memory loss it causes, and a border-line porno shot towards the end.

Where is this publication going?

Is it just me or am I the only one in the PDGA who wants a more professional publication to represent our organization?

I am somewhat happy to report that issue #2 made it to my mailbox 10 days later than people 5 miles down the road. The cover was a little beat up but that's expected when paying a 3rd class rate. :(

Is it just me or am I the only one in the PDGA who wants a more professional publication to represent our organization?



It's not just you. We had the same discussion at our last club meeting.

Concerning the non-golf contributions, I did like the article on Ultimate. Of course, the author (Barrett White), besides being a fine writer, is a favorite around these parts. But the doggy guy and 'non-throwing' girl stuff can go. Perhaps I'm showing my age here, but how old was the model for the unrelated doggy article photo? 16?

borderline porno??? where is it? i looked 2x but couldnt find the XX. r u talking bout the cutie on page 80?

A bit of an exageration on my part I must admit, but thats the point... Having scantly clad cuties is not for our official publication IMO. I don't doubt that there are thousands of guys out there saying; YES! I love this mag with all of it's trash talk and beauty queens! But there are also fathers and husbands out there with self respecting wives and families whose issue ended up in the trash can two minutes after the wife got hold of it....

Is it just me or am I the only one in the PDGA who wants a more professional publication to represent our organization?



It's not just you. We had the same discussion at our last club meeting.

Concerning the non-golf contributions, I did like the article on Ultimate. Of course, the author (Barrett White), besides being a fine writer, is a favorite around these parts. But the doggy guy and 'non-throwing' girl stuff can go. Perhaps I'm showing my age here, but how old was the model for the unrelated doggy article photo? 16?




She looks like she could be 13.... But who knows.... The sorry fact is that we have been getting a publication that is something like a cross between a teen-queen magazine and sports illustration swim-siut edition.... Some use of buzz words is fine, but pimpin style trash talk and underwear models could be left out IMO.

I think FDM is entertaining, informative, and well-structured just the way it is. Best frolf rag I've come across. Keep it up, y'all.

--Rush

Reflecting on discussions about the magazine, I have a hunch that if a survey was taken, the differing opinions would closely follow demographic lines. Perhaps the target audience is the younger male crowd as opposed to the female players, families or older married guys. Time will tell if that is an effective business approach.

One thing to consider though. If we are using the magazine as a tool to promote the sport to the parks people and others who are in a position of decision making, they don�t fit the demographic of �young single male�.

I agree... Based on berserkers comment, I doubt he has a family or has ever read DGW. Even though disc golf world had it's share of appeal for the younger, it also crossed the gap of various demographic groups. It had very well written articles, and very seldom had spelling and grammatical errors.

I am sure FDM does not want to be a copy of DGW, but the ability to bridge demographics is something it could do with some editing and if they tried to remember who this publication is being read by. A more professional tone and presentation combined with FDM's flash could be accomplished and be acceptable for all.

I have received both my issues and they were in fine condition. My PDGA membership packet was randomly tucked in the 1st issue which may be the problem with some people saying they received the mag but no PDGA info. As for the girl that you keep complaining about Senior...where have you been for the last thirty years? I can't open sports illustrated for kids or nickelodeon without seeing some cleavage...get over it.

The biggest issue with the mag IMO is the lack of fluidity. It seems to have no flow or continuity. just a mad scramble to fill the mag with info. No big deal as I have read both from cover to cover...

Overall though for only releasing two issues I think its great. Anyone checked out the first few issues of DGWN lately? We all need to make sure we are comparing apples to apples here

Point taken.. I may be over-reacting a bit for todays watered down standards. But that's the problem with the world today, a little cleavage, no problem,, oh and don't forget to mention some pot smoking too.... Just what I wanted to take down to office to show off...

That stuff might be fine for a teen publication. But this is susposed to be our face to the world as a whole... I don't mind a bit of fun.... And I never said DGW is perfect, but at least you knew what to expect. I can't wait for issue three. Maybe they will chronicle the party lives of the most crazy open players from our past with pics and everything, and I'm sure most PDGA members wouldn't mind.

I don't think you're over-reacting Senior. As is often the case with many products, I suspect they are missing their real audience in an effort to tap into the young hot to go male audience. Wanna bet it gets worse before it gets better. The time lines and deliverables for this magazine, at the cost structure, are beyond what Rick Rothstein, the expert in publishing for this sport, seemed to suggest were possible.

This reminds me of the old adage. When you get married, don't expect that your husband is going to somehow be different from the man you dated.

The Magazine, as we see it today in it's second edition is likely to be what we will see going down the road.

There are plenty of Pro female players in this sport to use for pictures of females, if the young bucks want hot babes, send them to look at Hawk's avatar...

As Bill Buckley used to say, Cancel your own dam subscription."

Boy this a Tough Crowd...

I'm a newbie to the Game, approaching a Year, and am absorbing all information I can get. Video, Sitting back watching Players, playing Tournaments and now...flying disc magazine.

I read this and Disc Golf World cover to cover multiple times. I have pulled info and lessons which have Greatly help my game.

Already a Grandmaster...believe that Crap, I also take FHM, Maxim and Cosmo...my GF reads it after I do....so I like what FDM is doing...they are doing whatever it takes to be successful...and that is to tap every demographic...keep it up...also my Mag shows up clean and bright.

My main gripe about the lovely young lass is that she doesn't quite fill out her bikini top. C'mon, if you are going to get all the old farts panties in a wad at least make it worthwhile......like Hawks avatar!!!!!!!

It's just skinnier paper than DGWN making it look that way... :eek:

It's just skinnier paper than DGWN making it look that way... :eek:



Darn skinny paper! :)

I'm sure that Teresa Bellingham appreciated the credit....

If you can't proof your rag well enough to get the right name on a former NT TD (and wife of PDGA board member Cris BELLINGER), it follows that 'dunno' and 'oh-eight' would be part of the vocabulary.

Since the reading level of the average American is 5th grade, why expect it to be higher than 3rd grade for the demographic these guys seem to be after...

Neither of the first two issues of this magazine will make it into the hands of people that I am trying to bring on board with EDGE or with course development...nice try, but get professional...

So the second issue has been shipped? Am I in the same boat as before where I'll have to contact Rich personally again or is it the bad excuse of "certain parts of the country get their issues at random times" again? What is FDM doing different shipping-wise from DGW? I never had issues with DGW getting to me. What gives?

Got mine at home yesterday, got the affliate club issues already also which were at the "smokeout" in ATL on Sunday.

You need to move to a better part of Georgia. :D

As Bill Buckley used to say, Cancel your own dam subscription."



Bill Buckley could speak? And here I only thought he ranted. So Bruce, would you say that is what you aspire for your daughters, semi-dressed pictures in the magazine that represents our sport?

Dana &amp; Other TD's,

The deadline for the office to submit the schedule of events to the magazine is a month or more before the magazine actually comes out. This means that in order to have your event listed on the schedule, you must sanction well in advance of your event. We send a list of all sanctioned events to the magazine so if your event is not listed, it means the office did not receive your sanctioning agreement in time for it to be included. The good news is that with six issues, instead of the four we currently received, there is a good possibility that your event will appear in the next issue depending on the dates.

The office also updates the online schedule on a weekly basis so your event should appear on this schedule within a week of the office receiving your completed and sanctioning agreement. I would highly recommend that TD's sanction their events at least three months in advance at a minimum if at all possible. This will ensure that your tournament appears on the schedule in the magazine at least once and it will give competitors adequate time to make plans to attend.

If you mail in your sanctioning agreement and it does not appear on the online schedule within a week, please do not hesitate to contact the office.

Regards,
Brian Graham
PDGA Executive Director



The So Cal Championships do not show in the schedule in either issue of Flying Disc Magazine. Our sanctioning agreement and fees for both weekends were paid in full on January 24. These events have been listed on the PDGA Online Tour Schedule since that date. I can understand how the events may not have been included in the first issue, but I don't understand why they are not listed on the schedule in the second issue. :(

The So Cal Championships do not show in the schedule in either issue of Flying Disc Magazine. Our sanctioning agreement and fees for both weekends were paid in full on January 24. These events have been listed on the PDGA Online Tour Schedule since that date. I can understand how the events may not have been included in the first issue, but I don't understand why they are not listed on the schedule in the second issue. :(



I have not received my second edition of FDM in the mail as of yet, however, looking through the PDGA Pages of FDM online I know that our local course's B-Tier event (The Hunt @ Deer Lakes, Sept. 27th, 2008 that I happen to be CO-TDing) has been sanctioned since January and we were not included in either edition of FDM. Same situation, online, not in mag... What gives?

my general sense is that the mag is not PDGA property. its more the result of a symbiotic relationship where the PDGA gets a cost-effective method for providing printed information to its Members and the mag gets a built-in paid subscriber base.

the PDGA is responsible for the content of its pages, but not in control of other content. of course, because a benefit the association expects to receive from this relationship is a publication that can be presented to further the cause of disc golf, it has a vested interest in making such a magazine.


it gets interesting because the mag wants to build readership and seems to be going for broad-based coverage while specifically targeting the younger or more flexible audience. the content geared for that audience can easily get in conflict with the more staid objectives.

i totally understand why some might not want to use the mag, especially 1:1, in certain situations. the problem is trying to use a single publication to meet all needs. the mag is barely on the edge compared to most any media than comes to mind. Married with Children is far more inappropriate than No.2, p80. 98% of beers ads are also. heck, forget about pg 80 - the magazine racks in every 7-Eleven show the same thing but put it real big, and on their covers. 7-Eleven banned cigarette papers and smut mags a decade ago and cannot be remotely considered anything but safe. so it becomes a little difficult to completely buy the "protect our daughters" argument. i do have a 5yo daughter. i dont mind that my disc golf mag reflects the reality in which she lives, and it doesnt really bother me that the mag is not an oasis of purity in a not quite pure world. but thats just me and my family.

a little bit of play in the leash is ok. i feel it probably ran out pretty much the full lengthin No.1, and maybe 85% of the way in No.2. i think the mag heard the message about content. i'd become concerned if we moved back out to the very edge, but there doesnt seem to be any reason to expect that at this point.

speaking of content, what about the PDGA pages content? is it good/bad/indifferent? we've got those pages to put in anything we want. what would everyone like to see in there? maybe we could make the PDGA pages a pullout, so that we could have a small pub that we did fully control?

Hi there Josh and Suzette...and all onlookers,

Issue #2's PDGA schedule included all events submitted to the PDGA from April 5 to Aug 31st and all A Tiers, National Tour events, and Majors from September 1st through the end of the year.

This was due to space. The tour is growing (which is wonderful) and we now have a space issue (...not so wonderful). We have 3 pages currently alloted for the schedule. Maybe we should expand this to 4. I understand your concerns most definitely.

This doesn't pertain to both of you but merely an explanation, the content for the PDGA pages is given to FDM about 6 weeks prior to the issue hitting the streets. Please keep this in mind if you are failing to see your name listed under Ace, Birdie, Eagle Club or IDGC Endowment Contributors. We have not forgotten you and are most grateful for your added support!

Send me an email [email protected] if you have further questions or concerns...or better yet call! I'm still about a week behind on answering emails which reminds me...back to work! : )

thanks Addie. that explains why the event is not listed.

Got issue #2 yesterday. It actually isn't too bad.

Did anybody else notice disc dogger Jeff Perry's blatant disrespect for disc golfers and Ultimate players? Check out page 79 where he demeans his critics. He gets even more rude on page 80. What's this guy's problem with other disc sports?

I will be very dissapointed in the Editors if another article from Jeff Perry shows up in the next edition of FDM.

Yes! I wouldn't miss him or the no-nothing view from the out side girl!

Also, he makes it sound at first as if he is apologizing for the last bad mannered article, but you soon realize it is sarcasm and disrespect!

Did anybody else notice disc dogger Jeff Perry's blatant disrespect for disc golfers and Ultimate players? Check out page 79 where he demeans his critics. He gets even more rude on page 80. What's this guy's problem with other disc sports?

I will be very dissapointed in the Editors if another article from Jeff Perry shows up in the next edition of FDM.



I thought it was all tongue-in-cheek. He basically said he has a weenie arm and can't throw a disc golf disc. Don't take yourself so seriously.

That's what I thought about the first article (tongue-in-cheek). I also agree that a "weenie arm" could be Jeff's problem, but he never admits that, he just blames the equipment. Here's a direct quote:
"If golf discs flew as well as ultimate discs, garbage can lids, or hubcaps, then I might even consider a career as a professional disc golfer"

To me, he just comes off as pompous.

After reading other members experiences i guess i should be grateful that i at least received issue #1. I just want issue #2 to arrive sometime before the Players Cup so that i can see how the beginning of the year went. :D



Me too. :(

Did anybody else notice disc dogger Jeff Perry's blatant disrespect for disc golfers and Ultimate players? Check out page 79 where he demeans his critics. He gets even more rude on page 80. What's this guy's problem with other disc sports?

I will be very dissapointed in the Editors if another article from Jeff Perry shows up in the next edition of FDM.



Jeff Perry comes across as a complete idiot

he's hurting the outside views of all '3 big' disc sports ... people get negative connotations of ultimate and disc golf and he makes 'disc doggers' look like pompous arses!

I think he's just upset because he tried disc golf and couldnt throw it more than 20' and people kept telling him to put his dog on a leash.

hey Jeff... I heard that 83% of statistics are made up on the spot

the rest of the issue looks good (haven't read every article yet)

You've gotten your mag, Stack? Maybe mine will make it to my house this week. We do live, what- 7 min away?

lol... yeah got mine Monday (got the 1st issue pretty quick too)

you can borrow mine when i'm done! ;)

Better try and do something worthy of getting on the cover before 2018:

"Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has now gone out on a limb and made some pretty bold predictions in a recent discussion with Washington Post editors, the biggest of which, by far, is his proclamation that he thinks there'll be "no media consumption left in 10 years that is not delivered over an IP network." So as not to leave any doubt about that, he also went to further clarify that that means there "will be no newspapers, no magazines that are delivered in paper form. Everything gets delivered in an electronic form."

Better try and do something worthy of getting on the cover before 2018:

"Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has now gone out on a limb and made some pretty bold predictions in a recent discussion with Washington Post editors, the biggest of which, by far, is his proclamation that he thinks there'll be "no media consumption left in 10 years that is not delivered over an IP network." So as not to leave any doubt about that, he also went to further clarify that that means there "will be no newspapers, no magazines that are delivered in paper form. Everything gets delivered in an electronic form."




That's really creepy! We will have a world full of Chucks.......... :p

LOLOLOL!!!!

That's really creepy! We will have a world full of Chucks..........


There's already more than a dozen out there... :eek:

we STILL haven't received my wife's my 2nd issue.

the guy from the mag has told me he would send one three times now and it's been over a month.

I notice that the advertising calendar at flyingdiscmagazine.com says that issue 3 release date is/was May 19th.

Has anyone seen this issue yet?

Issue 4 is released July 14th. May be a good way to save on mailing costs to ship them both together.

Fat chance.... Looks like by the time I receive my last issue of the 6, next year will be 1/4 of the way over... Not very good service IMO. By the time you get the mag it is so out of date, it loses much of its purpose. Yep, already knew that product was coming out etc.... What a let down.

Better try and do something worthy of getting on the cover before 2018:

"Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has now gone out on a limb and made some pretty bold predictions in a recent discussion with Washington Post editors, the biggest of which, by far, is his proclamation that he thinks there'll be "no media consumption left in 10 years that is not delivered over an IP network." So as not to leave any doubt about that, he also went to further clarify that that means there "will be no newspapers, no magazines that are delivered in paper form. Everything gets delivered in an electronic form."



I guess that means I'm going to have to get a laptop for the bathroom.....

Better try and do something worthy of getting on the cover before 2018:

"Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has now gone out on a limb and made some pretty bold predictions in a recent discussion with Washington Post editors, the biggest of which, by far, is his proclamation that he thinks there'll be "no media consumption left in 10 years that is not delivered over an IP network." So as not to leave any doubt about that, he also went to further clarify that that means there "will be no newspapers, no magazines that are delivered in paper form. Everything gets delivered in an electronic form." [b]Ballmer later added, "Except for the PDGA of course."

Then Bill Gates steps in and says:

Don't worry about a thing, I'll be sure to come up with new operating software for your electronic publications once a month and make sure to put lots of bugs in it and re-write everything and re-engineer it so that nothing is like it used to be...... I'm Bill Gates

I'm also curious why we can't post on the official thread titled Flying DIsc Magazine instead of on something buried here in Other PDGA Topics.

To me it seems logical that magazine questions/comments should be posted at Flying Disc Magazine topic.

It's been my experience that those dudes can't handle communicating on this board.

I had thought about buying an ad for an event, but if the magazine comes out after the tournament date then it seems a bit of a waste. Glad I did not spend that money.

I seem to remember lots of promises in the beginning that have never came true. The idea of Six issues and two mass mailings was susposed to get the publication out on time, within reason. What a bunch of hooey that was...

The whole thing and the cover was susposed to be high quality:


Dear PDGA Members,

The PDGA Board of Directors has selected Rich Givens and 4141 Disc Golf as the official magazine provider for the organization beginning in January 2008. The selection is the end result of a Request for Proposals (RFP) for magazine services that the association released earlier this year.

The new magazine will be 100% full color gloss, approximately 8 3/8� x 10 7/8�, and wrapped in a heavier, glossy cover stock with perfect binding . The provider will be using recycled (90%-99% post consumer waste) paper stock inside and out. There will be no fewer than 80 interior pages, including 14 full color pages dedicated to PDGA news. The publication will be produced bi-monthly (6 issues per year), providing extensive coverage and time sensitivity to calendars, announcements and communication to our members.
The tone of the magazine is planned to be contemporary and insightful with content and organization consistent with other successful sport and alternative sport publications. The magazine will include regular features and columns, reader feedback forums, humor, advertising and editorial. Contributors and staff writers will include prominent figures in the disc golf community, as well as non-disc literary professionals.

The anticipated newsstand price of the magazine will be $4.95 per issue or $29.70 per year but the PDGA has contracted to pay a special discounted rate of approximately $15 per year to include the magazine as a benefit of membership. Members wishing to opt out of receiving the magazine will be offered a $10 discount off of the standard membership fees in 2008.

The PDGA Board and staff look forward to the release of the first issue with great anticipation and we encourage all members to support this endeavor by choosing to receive the magazine.

Regards,
Brian Graham
PDGA Executive Director



HA! In your Dreams...... :eek:

I may have the number wrong but it seems that the publisher said he had 11 years in the business prior to taking on our magazine. I vaguely think it may have been Pat who posted that info. If I am wrong about the years or poster I apologize to Pat.

If that was the campaign pledge/claim then I'm astounded that much experience yields the results we have seen so far.

PS, if FDM was a real person working for a real company, they would have been fired a long time ago..... Dead-line schmead-line is the motto here. You will get your mag when you get it, no sooner....

I may have the number wrong but it seems that the publisher said he had 11 years in the business prior to taking on our magazine. I vaguely think it may have been Pat who posted that info. If I am wrong about the years or poster I apologize to Pat.

If that was the campaign pledge/claim then I'm astounded that much experience yields the results we have seen so far.



I agree. I know I read lots of boasts about how great FDM was going to be, if they got the job. I wish we had got the other guy. Or was there "another guy" ? :confused:

I found the reference. As I see it there should be 6 mailing dates. Based on what I have read you would assume that means mailing dates of:
1) 1/30/08
2) 3/30/08
3) 5/30/08
4) 7/30/08
5) 9/30/08
6) 11/30/08



re: magazine - on time and in your box [Re: johnrock]
#769128 - 12/03/07 10:47 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Is your question whether you'll get yours at the same time as other folks? If so, the answer is all subscribers will get them within a pretty tight time window, yes.

There is an allowance for differing efficiencies with local post offices, but typically they work within a 3 day window. Delivery date is on or about January 30th for issue one. Please contact us should you have any troubles.

As far as posting and contact, you are always welcome to ask anything you want directly. My email is [email protected]<br />

projected vs. Actual arrival dates:
1) 1/30/08 = 2/28/08
2) 3/30/08 = 4/23/08
3) 5/30/08 = Not delivered, but today is 6/26/08, so I should be getting it soon

So it looks like every thing would have been fine if the mag had not been a month late to start, and if it had not ended up taking a month or more to deliver.... or some cases, never even getting it....

So, I ask a question of the mag guys because I have traditionaly gotten my mag later than others and I get chastized for asking and following up with my concerns. Then the mag dude breaks one of the Message Board rules that the Communications Director puts into place and I call him out on it and he goes into hiding. What should we expect from this kind of personality? Just exactly what we are getting. How many of you who push Disc Golf on schools and Parks Depts. are using this mag as your face of the PDGA?

1 Year contract? :confused:


I like the fact we are supposed to be getting 6 mags a year Vs 4 but since a lot of people haven't even received but one or two I am missing DGWN a little more. This magazine targets newer players which is fine but none of them are paying $75 in membership each year so they won't see it anyway.

I live near Chico CA and have left copies of DGW at my doctors office etc. and was not the least bit concerned about the content of the magazine. In fact, it was done so well IMO that I was even proud to be doing so.

But this new publication is too trashy for me to drop off, so I have not done so. The magazine is fun and informative and many of the writers seem to make an effort to be professional. But there has been a few articles in the first two that have been to far over the top IMO.

Not only does some of the language offend, but the the monthly run of "A view from the outside", and the "disc dogger" articles seem to make disc golf seem like a joke.
The writing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

One of the worst things about the second edition, is that my wife looked through it and then asked me if I wanted our son to look at border-line x-rated scantly clad teen age girls and if I supported an organization that put garbage into their publication.

Some might say it is harmless fun, and anyway, she was the stamp for a Golden State Classic disc last year, right?

Well this mag does nothing for me promoting the sport among my family, and around the more conservative sponsors and city council members in my community.

They are just looking for a reason to label disc golfers as nothing but a big party type croud. Put in a course and send and invatation for drug and a alcohol abuse in public parks!

So the magazine is a waste as far as I am concerned. You might as well burn it to make sure it doesn't get into the wrong hands. They might use it against us at a council meeting to stop a course from being approved.

So, is there actually a 3rd issue of FDM coming? I think it's ridiculous...I personally like the one Dave from Revolution (Disc Golf Magazine) is (was?) doing better! Is he going to continue that one? Haven't seen it in a while either (and I was a distributor for it in VA, MD &amp; DE)...no contact from Dave.

Maybe the "oversight" Director can do a little bit of "oversight" on this? I'd think that the PDGA had a contract with FDM and that they are close to breach of that contract. What's up with this, Mr. "oversight" Director? Please represent us members and get to the bottom of it.

Thank you.

(And yes, I'd like to see Dave Henrickson's magazine back again. It certainly was/is far superior to what's come from FDM, and it was FREE for heck's sake!)

we dont have an oversight director anymore. the BoD, in its infallible wisdom, voted to abolish the position. "oversight is everyone's responsibility" is now the policy.

there is a Board meeting tonight. i will bring this up for discussion. it does need some light on it. i agree.

^^^ thanks Pat, for taking this and making it your responsibility.

this is one example of why you got my vote.

I have been trying to get in touch with someone from the mag to get a story posted about a tournament and have had no luck getting in touch with anyone. Things are not looking good. Does anyone else know if there are other mags that are still being distributed?

Shane

A change to the schedule of release for the magazine was recently requested by FDM and approved by myself, such that it would allow them to release an issue immediately following the Pro/Am Worlds, rather than just before the event and two months following. This adjustment to the schedule should allow for more timely coverage of the World Championships.

Issue #3 is currently at the printers and is currently a little behind schedule, but to my knowledge should be shipped this week.

I'd rather have the old schedule. Its not like they will have decent coverage anyway and making the deadline right after worlds means they won't have much production time.

Thanks for the info Brian.

Issue #3 is currently at the printers and is currently a little behind schedule, but to my knowledge should be shipped this week.



Still waiting for #2 issue. :( I miss DGWN even though Rick Rothstein never gave me a single mention in any NorCal news in 10 years of fairly decent play.

[QUOTE]
I miss DGWN

Thank goodness I've been saving all of my DGWN issues. I haven't seen ANY Disc Golf related reading material in my mailbox since Rick sent out the final issue of DGW :confused: From a lot of comments on this thread, it appears I'll be dissappointed with what the new mag dudes can produce, if I ever receive any issues that I've already paid for. :p

Sad, sad, sad!

How many of you who push Disc Golf on schools and Parks Depts. are using this mag as your face of the PDGA?

Issue #3 is currently at the printers and is currently a little behind schedule, but to my knowledge should be shipped this week.



Still waiting for #2 issue. :( ...



Same here!

nanook

Brian,

I have sent several emails to the addresses listed under the Mag thread with no responses. I am trying to submit an article idea from a recent tournament that I think would be great for the PDGA. This tournament featured wheel chair participants on a course specifically designed with ADA guidelines in mind. I think that people would be interested in this type of tournament and the recreational inclusion element and the mag would be a great way to expose these issues. As a paying member and state volunteer, what do I have to do to contact the magazine editors?

Shane Seal

You just evidenced where you actually could benefit the PDGA and the magazine, and without any hidden fees.

If it was my magazine or organization to run, you have my undivided attention.

Hey Shane,

I apologize for the difficulties that you are having. If you are still interested in trying to publish your article, please contact me so that we can try and work together. What you have metnioned is very intriguing and seems like it would be a great thing to have everyone know about. What I am trying to say is get in touch with me and let's see what we can do.

Thanks,
Scott Papa

I don't know why you are all so critical. I have read every issue of DGWN since 96, and I have read both of these new FDM issues. The FDM magazine is every bit as good as DGW. And you don't have to read how to win disc golf for the 20th time. The only problem I have is with the editing. Seems they are not proof reading before they publish it. Other than that, the articles are very nice, even the disc dog one!! And there are way less ads in the magazine.

I don't know why you are all so critical. I have read every issue of DGWN since 96, and I have read both of these new FDM issues. The FDM magazine is every bit as good as DGW. And you don't have to read how to win disc golf for the 20th time. The only problem I have is with the editing. Seems they are not proof reading before they publish it. Other than that, the articles are very nice, even the disc dog one!! And there are way less ads in the magazine.



Most are not critical of the content itself, but of the production and management of this publication. I'm sure that there are some very good reasons as to why there have been no comments or reply's from FDM until just recently.

Which leads me to the next item at hand. Thank you Mr. Papa for offering a contact for one of the members!

Please consider going to Disc glofers 'R' us and make some contact there too. There is a great need for feedback from someone directly connected with FDM.

and on top of that... where is the contest that was supposed to start a month ago?.... I KNOW THEY HAVE ENTRIES!

Im with Senior AND the Hippie.... the mag is decent. production and professionalism and editing, all LACKING.

I think in general, everything with the PDGA and the mag has been very slow this year. My membership took way too long to process this year. In past years, it was always done in a timely fashion. And seems the same is true with the mag delivery.

But I do like the direction the magazine is heading, it has started some decent ideas with the course reviews, pros tips, great holes, etc. It has a lot of room for improvement, but I think they will get it right. If you really want a great magazine, then we should all contribute our stories and photos to the magazine so that we are all fairly represented across the land. I'm sure they would love to get submissions from people out there for stories and pictures of things happening around the world. I don't know, seems like a good place to start?

I also agree that the general direction of the magazine is positive and has some very good ideas. I really enjoy reading a magazine about disc golf. I am still eagerly awaiting my 3rd issue that should have been delivered by now.

I have learned alot already from reading Scott Papas and others instructional articles and really enjoyed the layout and fun tone of the publication.

But there are some things that are in need of attention here:

If you are going to sell a product and offer the sale of ads, then promptness for deliverly production etc is very important.

There is the issue of editing and the choice of content/language/slang words in this publication to deal with (flying high issue #2, give me a break). Not all of us are into exposing the drug use habbits of disc golfers in our official publication....

Those things are important to many who would want to use this publication for promoting the sport. For myself, the feel of some of the writing is trashy and boderline offensive and does not belong in the hands of a ten year old. It is a very small percentage of the magazine, but it is there none-the-less....

It seems to me that the people involved are trying very hard to ignore this fact and the previous posts here are supportive of this.

I also bet that FDM and the PDGA bit off more than they can chew with deadlines and all the pressures of increased membership with the combination of the PDGA tour! It is obviously very dificult to handle the large amount of current, renewing, and new members.
I know that I can't be in two places at once, so how can the PDGA and FDM? It is no wonder things are falling way behind.

What is the saying? Never make promises you can't keep?

I myself have not even tried to contact FDM yet. Why? because I am not planning on using the publication (as it is) as a promotional tool for disc golf. I have been waiting to see if the PDGA or FDM will reply to some of these issues and join in on the discussion. If you read the previous posts on this thread, you will see that there is a definate problem with the management of this new oficial PDGA publiction.

The publication is still very new, and I would rather wait and see, rather than jump to conclusions about the reasons for all of the problems. Someone will eventually comment on the issues. Brian G. and Scott Papa have already began to comment on some issues.... Maybe we will get somewhere soon

I think in general, everything with the PDGA and the mag has been very slow this year. My membership took way too long to process this year. In past years, it was always done in a timely fashion. And seems the same is true with the mag delivery.



Good observation and I agree with you. The common denominator in the delivery of both PDGA membership packages and the magazine is the U.S. Postal Service. I just got off the telephone with the U.S. Post Office in Atlanta where I was inquiring about the very slow delivery of shipments from the PDGA fulfillment house in Alpharetta, GA (just outside Atlanta). Todd Breiner also spoke with a representative of the Post Office for about two hours last week trying to find out the same thing.

From what we have been able to find out, the reason for the delays in shipping are due to the opening of a new bulk processing center in Alpharetta. During the transition period from the old facility to the new facility, the bulk mail was being sent to the main post office in downtown Atlanta for processing. For reasons unknow to even the USPS, the delays we are experiencing are due to this change in the normal process. The fulfillment process was not changed at all from how it has always been done in the past until just recently and the new changes were as a result of the office and fulfillment trying to address the problem from our side. The good news is that we will be implementing an entirely new fulfillment process this upcoming membership season and the turn around time should be reduced from the normal 3 to 4 weeks to about 1 to 2 weeks from the time we receive your membership. Compare this to the 9 to 10 weeks that we have been subjected to this year.

On behalf of the office, we are sincerely sorry for the delays this year but for the most part they were completely out of our control. The bright side is that due to these challenges, we recently underwent a complete review of the entire fulfillment process and we are confident that we have a new system in place that will be much faster than at anytime in the past. Unfortunately we will not see the benefits from this new system until later this year. We do ask for your patience as we get through this rough period. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks in advance for your understanding!

I renewed in December of 2007...I still have not received a thing from the PDGA except a receipt. I have called Addie many times, still nothing in the mail...But she is much nicer to speak with than Jason Allind. He's strange...

I renewed in December of 2007...I still have not received a thing from the PDGA except a receipt. I have called Addie many times, still nothing in the mail...But she is much nicer to speak with than Jason Allind. He's strange...



Cent... that was priceless...... :D

I renewed in December of 2007...I still have not received a thing from the PDGA except a receipt. I have called Addie many times, still nothing in the mail...But she is much nicer to speak with than Jason Allind. He's strange...



Dave,

Our records show that the PDGA office received your renewal on January 30, 2008 and you were processed two days later on Feb. 1st. Your renewal package was shipped to you on February 8th and you contacted the office at the end of June to inform us that you had not received it so Addie immediately issued a reshipment to you.

Please let us know if you do not receive this second package in a timely manner.

Maybe my mailman took the same detour yours did...

Now THAT's a real answer. Thanks Brian

I renewed in December of 2007...I still have not received a thing from the PDGA except a receipt. I have called Addie many times, still nothing in the mail...But she is much nicer to speak with than Jason Allind. He's strange...



Hey watch yourself buddy! Is that a personal attack, on a staff member. ;)

I think in general, everything with the PDGA and the mag has been very slow this year. My membership took way too long to process this year. In past years, it was always done in a timely fashion. And seems the same is true with the mag delivery.


From Brian 7/8

Good observation and I agree with you. The common denominator in the delivery of both PDGA membership packages and the magazine is the U.S. Postal Service.



From Brian 7/2

A change to the schedule of release for the magazine was recently requested by FDM and approved by myself, such that it would allow them to release an issue immediately following the Pro/Am Worlds, rather than just before the event and two months following. This adjustment to the schedule should allow for more timely coverage of the World Championships.

Issue #3 is currently at the printers and is currently a little behind schedule, but to my knowledge should be shipped this week.




Brian
I know that you are the good company man and a week ago you fell on the sword for FDM, something you should not be called on to do for them. Now you have found the post office a common denominator in the problems. It is probably not likely that the Postal Service caused Issue 3 to be at the printers 6 weeks after the release date nor that you are the other problem. Something makes me think that the silent FDM management and staff might have some part of the responsibility.

but

"A little behind schedule" ? Issue 4 is due out July 14, this (#3) was due out May 19th.
See Flying Disc Magazine Advertising Calendar (http://flyingdiscmagazine.com/images/adguides08.pdf) page 2. 1.65 mb Download

And Brian it is not you who should have to answer. Unless you can provide that part of your job description before you took on the PDGA Executive Director position that includes 'taking responsibility for a hired contractors shortcomings'.

Everyone reading this thread knows that FDM needs to man up and take responsibility, publicly here, for not being able to keep up with their commitment. Just admit they bit off more than they were ready to chew. Concede that a two month production schedule was too much to promise. And apologize to Brian for the untenable position you put him in.

I bet UPM is behind this. :)

The publisher gave Primal Parenting magazine as one example of his 11 year experience in the business.

This is the top of the Primal Parenting Magazine (http://www.primalparentingmagazine.com/) website

CHANGES AT PRIMAL PARENTING MAGAZINE

Primal Parenting Magazine, originally founded as a print quarterly in 2007, is changing format and will now be available only online. This has been an incredibly difficult decision for us. However, due to the overwhelming financial challenges of the present economy, we are unable to continue our print format in 2008. Rising energy costs that affect printing and distribution, personnel changes, and the impact of an economic downturn on our advertisers and investors have combined to create the perfect (unfortunate) economic storm for us.

---------------------------
I find reference to one issue, Fall 2007 did not find reference to a Winter/Spring.

Is that the future of Flying Disc Magazine as well?

building a subscriber base from scratch is a lot different from hooking up with a 11,000 member organization.

"Rising energy costs ... the impact of an economic downturn on our advertisers and investors have combined to create the perfect (unfortunate) economic storm for us."

the same is true for many companies these days. fortunately, the structure of the relationship with FDM is such that the effect of these factors is much less than if the mag was out there 100% on its own.

Actually, it is not FDM that needs to step up on this issue. As was pointed out many times the goal attempted was unrealistic.

a) Rick Rothstein told us clearly that the price he was charging was realistic and necessary.

b) Many commented that this sport only supported a quarterly magazine.

c) There were numerous other smaller issues raised and ignored about the process. This would include the concept that if the price went down, and the number of issues went up, you might have a problem meeting delivery deadlines...

We ignored what Rick told us and put out a RFP with the requirement of 6 issues a year at what is rumored to be a lower cost to the PDGA (let me point out I've not read the RFP and don't know the cost structure so one would want to look to make sure this perspective is correct).

On the other hand, Ya get what ya pay for and if you ignore the reality of the world you live in you get a mess. If you'll go back up stream you will see that there are some predictions about this not working well and the problem just getting worse.

Now, FDM should have known better, but the reality is that the decision to ignore Rick's commentary and the comments of other members (please see Terry Hussien Calhoun's comments from when this decision was made, as an example) occurred at the Board level. Question that should be asked include: who on the Board drove this process, who advocated for it, who thought it was a good idea to put out an RFP on something like this?

I bet you could find out by lookin' at the minutes...

BTW - I've said this before and I'll say it again. RFPs sound good in principal, but for an organization of this size and for projects of this size I'm not sure they work well. More importantly, even for big organizations, say our government, not to mention big business, they frequently fail. Common sense and an experienced voice counts for a whole lot more than a check list of "we need this."

a) Rick Rothstein told us clearly that the price he was charging was realistic and necessary.


I find that very hard to believe because his magazine had so many advertisements, it was hard to tell articles from ads. Unless RR was "giving" away ad space (which I seriously doubt), then his mag should've cost the PDGA next to nothing.
But you are right about one thing, Lyle: You do get what you pay for with things like this.

my response was to those who feel that Primal Parenting's move from print to online somehow diminished the publisher's standing. it does not, and should not.

i dont know what else Lyle said so i cannot address it. but i'd be willing to bet that virtually all businesses tell their customers that their prices are realistic and necessary. from the lemonade stand to big oil. its not exactly a wake-up call when a vendor says his prices are "realistic and necessary".

it will be interesting to see if RR is elected to the BoD. the fact that he has spoken out against "PDGA Hegemony" in the past is fascinating.

a) Rick Rothstein told us clearly that the price he was charging was realistic and necessary.


I find that very hard to believe because his magazine had so many advertisements, it was hard to tell articles from ads. Unless RR was "giving" away ad space (which I seriously doubt), then his mag should've cost the PDGA next to nothing.
But you are right about one thing, Lyle: You do get what you pay for with things like this.



I'd be lying if I said I remembered word for word what was said, but my recollection was that Rick said the payment that he was getting from the PDGA was necessary and required.

I don't know what Ads in the magazine go for, and I assure you that I don't know the cost structure per say. But, I'm also reasonably sure, based on what was said, that Rick felt the Ads didn't come anywhere near to covering the cost of the publication. On the other hand, I'm almost as old as the hills and my memory isn't what it used to be...

Regardless, we had a quality mag that came out four times a year, on time, and now we have what sounds like a lower quality mag that comes out, whenever they can get it out. This is a comment on how difficult it is to use a process to select someone to carry out a project like this. Words on paper look good, but ignoring the experienced player that we had in place seemed to be a mistake.

BTW - It always amazed me that Rick, who was quoted as saying that he was ready to get out when this occurred, wasn't asked to train or guide the new guys through the process. He wasn't even asked to comment on the situation or the new mag structure or time tables. Now it could be that he didn't have the time, or it could be because of other reasons.

History 101 - Rick started as a small pamphlet style magazine and grew into DGWN. That process took years (over 10 if my recollection serves me correctly) and Rick, unless he is quite incompetent, learned a lot about publishing and producing such a magazine. It certainly felt like we ignored that experience and expertise when the decision was made to go a different direction. In many ways it felt like we were saying, ya know Rick, we don't think your hard earned expertise and experience is worth paying for. Indeed, we feel that someone with almost no experience in publishing a magazine on Disc Golf, with none of the connections you have (defined as connections built through publishing the magazine, i.e. the FDM guys might know the same people, but not in the same way) could do it better. Huh?

Last point - Do not toss this decision on the ED or the Board per say. Such decisions are hard to make and pressure to move in certain directions can be formidable. Also, once you are in to such a decision, if you want to give it the greatest chance of success you have to support it. Nonetheless, I'd dearly like to know what elements went in to this process. That said, I fully admit that I don't have any rights to any more information that what is out there. Don't read this as an indictment of the communication in this organization.

building a subscriber base from scratch is a lot different from hooking up with a 11,000 member organization.




my response was to those who feel that Primal Parenting's move from print to online somehow diminished the publisher's standing. it does not, and should not.



But if he did have 11 years experience then one might expect he should know the difficulty of building a subscriber base from scratch. And he also should have had experience enough to know the problems with a bi-monthy publication promise.

Two significant errors in judgment about basic publication issues do diminish a publishers standing.

Visible results so far, one failed print quarterly and a bi-monthly print shaky ... good fortune that 11,000 of us are supporting it.

building a subscriber base from scratch is a lot different from hooking up with a 11,000 member organization.




my response was to those who feel that Primal Parenting's move from print to online somehow diminished the publisher's standing. it does not, and should not.



But if he did have 11 years experience then one might expect he should know the difficulty of building a subscriber base from scratch. And he also should have had experience enough to know the problems with a bi-monthy publication promise.

Two significant errors in judgment about basic publication issues do diminish a publishers standing.



Not necessarily, what was his experience? If he had never built a subscriber base then he wouldn't have known regardless of his experience in the field.

Of course that doesn't negate the point you're making, how was the guy judged, what experience did he have relative to the issues confronting this publication, and were they relevant? Or was the decision made on a checklist of items that we felt were important and ignored the real world issues that were likely to occur and of which he could have no experience or knowledge?

I bet Rick knew...

hopefully rick got elected- "institutional memory" is important.

hopefully rick got elected- "institutional memory" is important.



Why is it every time I see something rational posted here it's from a member who's membership number is somewhere between 0 and 10,000? Darn those old guys are smart! :D

hopefully rick got elected- "institutional memory" is important.



Wouldn't that be 'gets' elected. Election deadline is July 31st. Getting old means just because you don't know what day of the week it is, that does not mean you are a dummy.

Ya'll vote now.

Actually, it is not FDM that needs to step up on this issue. As was pointed out many times the goal attempted was unrealistic.

a) Rick Rothstein told us clearly that the price he was charging was realistic and necessary.

b) Many commented that this sport only supported a quarterly magazine.

c) There were numerous other smaller issues raised and ignored about the process. This would include the concept that if the price went down, and the number of issues went up, you might have a problem meeting delivery deadlines...

We ignored what Rick told us and put out a RFP with the requirement of 6 issues a year at what is rumored to be a lower cost to the PDGA (let me point out I've not read the RFP and don't know the cost structure so one would want to look to make sure this perspective is correct).

On the other hand, Ya get what ya pay for and if you ignore the reality of the world you live in you get a mess. If you'll go back up stream you will see that there are some predictions about this not working well and the problem just getting worse.

Now, FDM should have known better, but the reality is that the decision to ignore Rick's commentary and the comments of other members (please see Terry Hussien Calhoun's comments from when this decision was made, as an example) occurred at the Board level. Question that should be asked include: who on the Board drove this process, who advocated for it, who thought it was a good idea to put out an RFP on something like this?

I bet you could find out by lookin' at the minutes...

BTW - I've said this before and I'll say it again. RFPs sound good in principal, but for an organization of this size and for projects of this size I'm not sure they work well. More importantly, even for big organizations, say our government, not to mention big business, they frequently fail. Common sense and an experienced voice counts for a whole lot more than a check list of "we need this."



Lyle,

You are incorrect in that the RFP did not specify 6 issues per year. The RFP stated that 4 issues was the minimum and we left it up to the bidders to structure their proposals as they wished. As it turned out, both bidders included the 6 issue option.

hopefully rick got elected- "institutional memory" is important.



Why is it every time I see something rational posted here it's from a member who's membership number is somewhere between 0 and 10,000? Darn those old guys are smart! :D



Dang! Only 19 members away from being on Lyle's smart list. :D

"It always amazed me that Rick, who was quoted as saying that he was ready to get out when this occurred, wasn't asked to train or guide the new guys through the process. He wasn't even asked to comment on the situation or the new mag structure or time tables. "

this is false. well, sort of. i dont know if he was asked or not, but i do know that Rick offered to consult with the new mag on many of those very issues. i remember feeling very warm towards Rick when we were so informed.

How many issues are we supposed to have recieved by now? The last issue I've recieved is the April/May one.

Looks (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=850025&amp;Main=850025#Post8 50025) like Issue 3 has yet to be sent out.

Thanks for the link....

I have to say it is great to see Rich stepping up and throwing us bone, even if there is no meat on it.... Yet... :o

Sounds promising that the magazine will be on some news stands, even though I have voiced some opinions here stating that the content was lacking and a bit questionable when considering John Q public... More exposure to the public is what disc sports need. I always look for a disc golf/disc sports related mag's when I go to places like Barnes and Nobles.... I have yet to see one... :(

We have been discussing FDM and also, what seems to be a spin-off from that topic " The image of the sport" over on the Disc golfers R us site.... :eek:

The web site, content, distribution have all been mentioned there along with alot of other important topics. :confused:

Even after all that I have said here/there in protest and nit-picky-ness, I still think FDM is doing a very good job considering what goes into a task such as publishing a magazine and reaching/satisfying all walks of life within the content, ads etc....

So, I say thanks to Rich for the update, and keep up the quality work. I will patiently await the delivery of my upcoming issues. :cool:

Thanks for the link.

read my signature......

Hello all. Issue three has taken a bit longer to get out than anticipated. We've had to overcome some challenges with our graphic designer and a change in vendors, but we're in production now. Our schedule will be adjusted, and we will still produce six issues this year. Look for issue four on a quick cycle.

Please pardon our dust as we work to give you the best possible magazine. Thank you for your support and let us know what you think about the next issue.

We'll also be going live with our new website in just a few weeks. We'll feature a ton of content, including blogs, columns, features, event coverage, and instructionals exclusive to the web.

One other note to report: the magazine is currently in trial on selected newsstand shelves across the country. We are securing the list and will advise you. Our support of those dealers, our expressions of interest and thanks will help us gain traction.

Thanks and keep an eye out for updates!



Don't hold your breath............ :eek:

I already saw the link/thread.
I certainly can read (or I'd not be interested in getting my issue #3).

I'm just "letting them know what I think".

thanks though Senior.

Sorry if I wasted valuable thread space...LOL :D

I was just trying to be sarcastic as usual..... :o

By the way, I got my issue 3 in the mail yest.... Wait,,,,, my wife just said something I think.... what did you say honey? Wake up? I am typing in my sleep again??? Thanks for waking me up,,,, I must have been dreaming. I thought I was down at the post office picking up my new issue #3 from FDM... Seems kind of like it was before I got my #1 and #2 issue, wow dejavu' ......that was freaky man.....

.....Hello all. Issue three has taken a bit longer to get out than anticipated. .......


One other note to report: the magazine is currently in trial on selected newsstand shelves across the country. We are securing the list and will advise you.



An award for understatement of the year??

And I'm not running out to find the selected news stands quite yet either.

Yeah, a severely secured list. Still waiting on issue # 1, but i have receieved #2. I imagine I'll get #3 if I renew next year.

You mean that there is more than 1 issue???

I'll trade you my #2 for your #1. I see their strategy now, they're trying to make them collectors Items.

I didnt get issue #1 until a month and a half ago after I complained to the PDGA now I havnt gotten issue #2 this is a joke.

I got #2, someone took it from my bathroom before I had read it, and I never saw #1.......Really think that we should go back to a flyer at this point, PDGA pages, and a website that is better, then lets re-circulate old DGWN's......at least they were on time, the ad rates were WAY more reasonable (probably why there were more ads in them from what I heard, not that I've read it.......)

You know if they would have committed to 4x/year, we wouldn't be having this conversation.....they'd be just about on schedule......

we've been had! the overwhelming silence coming from the producers of the mag itself is reminiscent of sportsloop.

I'm communicating with them on content for issue 4...

it would be nice to hear something from them about issues 1-3 and some folks lack thereof, even if it's as simple as "my bad"

Hey Brian, thanks for the correction. Sorry I didn't see this until now. I would have sworn I saw that was a requirement... :o

On the other hand, even with the option of 4 magazines, I'd argue that taking on such a task de novo with no prior experience of starting a mag from scratch is pushing it.

hopefully rick got elected- "institutional memory" is important.



Why is it every time I see something rational posted here it's from a member who's membership number is somewhere between 0 and 10,000? Darn those old guys are smart! :D



Dang! Only 19 members away from being on Lyle's smart list. :D



My smart list goes way beyond numbers, and Hero, you're definitely on it! Even if I do add a donkey to it every now and then. :D

"It always amazed me that Rick, who was quoted as saying that he was ready to get out when this occurred, wasn't asked to train or guide the new guys through the process. He wasn't even asked to comment on the situation or the new mag structure or time tables. "

this is false. well, sort of. i dont know if he was asked or not, but i do know that Rick offered to consult with the new mag on many of those very issues. i remember feeling very warm towards Rick when we were so informed.



Quick with that "this is false" comment weren't we; there's a difference between Rick going and offering (something that doesn't surprise me) and FDM accepting that help or going in search of it. Did this happen Pat?

Frankly, I've still not heard anything that impresses me about this magazine. I'm not saying that the entire process was a mess, but the end result was somewhat predictable.

That said, you never know, they may still get it straight. Hey, I have a thought, why don't they do an article about scantily clad women smokin' dope? That'd be a hit! They could take the angle that they were just scantily clad until they found disc golf!

BTW - what were the benefits of this move? I know that can't and shouldn't be answered, but presumably there were some, or was the RFP process simply about being business wise?

Question: was the arrangement with FDM actually better than the one with DGWN?

I think that it is L-A-M-E that people can't reply in the PDGA Announcements and Flying Disc Magazine threads.

Soooo reallly, the PDGA should be sending us all a refund for the missed issues, or pro-rating our refund or membership for next year depending on how many issues we've received. BTW, I've got 1 of 3 so far, and have emailed Addie at least twice. I bet the ones that opted out of the Mag for this year are sitting back having a good laugh.

What a great business example. Hey, anyone want to order shirts or hats, how bout some pens or umbrellas? I'll try to get them out to you sometime. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Yep.

Soooo reallly, the PDGA should be sending us all a refund for the missed issues, or pro-rating our refund or membership for next year depending on how many issues we've received. BTW, I've got 1 of 3 so far, and have emailed Addie at least twice. I bet the ones that opted out of the Mag for this year are sitting back having a good laugh.



I would be laughing, but I still haven't received my membership package from early January.

Oh come on, you know they'll take care of it. ;)

Soooo reallly, the PDGA should be sending us all a refund for the missed issues, or pro-rating our refund or membership for next year depending on how many issues we've received. BTW, I've got 1 of 3 so far, and have emailed Addie at least twice. I bet the ones that opted out of the Mag for this year are sitting back having a good laugh.



Nope not laughing, for myself, I feel sad that we don't have a stable clean representation of the organization that I was proud to hand to anyone at any time...

BTW - before some donkey says it, the PDGA is doing it's job on this. They are communicating here on the problems and they are giving the magazine ample time to work out those problems. I might not like what happened, but the organization is doing the right thing in terms of communication and follow up.

Jason, Addie, and Karolyn are nice, but the mail system in the South is horrible. They did say they would fly out here and hand deliver it to me if I didn't receive it by the end of the month...Addie, are you going to fly in to San Diego International Airport, or Palomar Airport?

I'm communicating with them on content for issue 4...



That is great news Chuck! Can you give us a clue what we might see in that late winter arrival?

I think that it is L-A-M-E that people can't reply in the PDGA Announcements and Flying Disc Magazine threads.



I don't think it would make any difference, given the professionalism they have already displayed they would not respond there either.

I'm communicating with them on content for issue 4...



That is great news Chuck! Can you give us a clue what we might see in that late winter arrival?



How bout communicate them to send out issues 1-3 to everyone who paid for them! ;)

That is great news Chuck! Can you give us a clue what we might see in that late winter arrival?


I'm figuring I should guess the early 2009 event schedule and talk about upcoming Ice Bowls... ;)

That is great news Chuck! Can you give us a clue what we might see in that late winter arrival?


I'm figuring I should guess the early 2009 event schedule and talk about upcoming Ice Bowls... ;)



And maybe a RFP for a new magazine publisher???

It is good to see healthy discussion on the mag we are so eagerly expecting in mail with patience and fortitude! Wow I was thinking to myself, "if guys were actually operating in a real market they would be toast"... Then it came to me when I read the last post on the official FDM thread... they are selling mags to a certain amount of businesses... So maybe that pays better and they are too busy selling else where and playing golf to get our issues in the mail ....

and they are too busy selling else where and playing golf to get our issues in the mail ....



Perhaps they disc golfing in Hawaii again. What a great way to "write" off the family vacation expenses.

Anybody really expect to see 4 new issues over the next five months?

not at all.

Sad thing is, I don't think he's playing gold. I really think he's working his butt off from my conversations with him. He lives in an area that is kind of far from anything. I imagine he just needs more people to help him out.

First,

You don't need to be goofing off to have trouble with a project like this. Honestly, getting out a magazine like this is a) hard, b) time consuming c) a logistics nightmare.

That is why some were nervous about this change at the start. You can be workin' hard and doing lots of important things, but still not delivering. It takes a level of planning and scheduling that come with experience and time.

The inability to deliver is not a reflection of lack of caring or laziness, or stupidity, rather of lack of training and a specific learned skill set.

Even Rick Rothstien would not have been able to step into such a role with no experience. He learned the skills over a long time.

Anybody really expect to see 4 new issues over the next five months?



Will we be reimbursed? Or maybe when it's renewal time there will be:

Opt for mag
Opt not for mag
Opt for partial delivery of mag.

you forgot:

OPT to receive refund from past years mag's shortcomings for missed/unpublished issues (no proof necessary as we know EVERYONE got screwed)

Anybody really expect to see 4 new issues over the next five months?



Will we be reimbursed? Or maybe when it's renewal time there will be:

Opt for mag
Opt not for mag
Opt for partial delivery of mag.



Opt to NOT RENEW at all...

This "pass the buck" nonsense has to stop somewhere.

Anybody really expect to see 4 new issues over the next five months?



Will we be reimbursed? Or maybe when it's renewal time there will be:

Opt for mag
Opt not for mag
Opt for partial delivery of mag.



Opt to NOT RENEW at all...

This "pass the buck" nonsense has to stop somewhere.



...and miss all of the message board drama?

Can't wait until the next "Why did you join or renew w/ the PDGA?" survey. Originally i joined for the 4 issues of Disc Golf World News, which was a great publication yesteryear. Then it became nothing but ads and scores. Then we were *forced* to renew w/ the PDGA if we wanted to play in the TOP division in A-tiers or higher. Weak! Now i'll most likely renew so that i can continue to play in A-tier or higher events and so that i can post something on this MB if need be.

Anybody really expect to see 4 new issues over the next five months?



Will we be reimbursed? Or maybe when it's renewal time there will be:

Opt for mag
Opt not for mag
Opt for partial delivery of mag.



Opt to NOT RENEW at all...

This "pass the buck" nonsense has to stop somewhere.



...and miss all of the message board drama?

Can't wait until the next "Why did you join or renew w/ the PDGA?" survey. Originally i joined for the 4 issues of Disc Golf World News, which was a great publication yesteryear. Then it became nothing but ads and scores. Then we were *forced* to renew w/ the PDGA if we wanted to play in the TOP division in A-tiers or higher. Weak! Now i'll most likely renew so that i can continue to play in A-tier or higher events and so that i can post something on this MB if need be.



I know i would miss your posts :D:D:D












































































http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4631/titsco4.gif

If I read any of the magazines that come in the mail this would be a big deal to me. It hardly bothers me at all. The only bad thing about it is the constant phone calls I get wanting to know if I got my magazine yet. Then people call me asking me to call Rich since he is an old friend of mine. And what's up with the video contest?

Sorry, I hadn't posted anything in a very long time. This looked like a good place to start.

If I read any of the magazines that come in the mail this would be a big deal to me. It hardly bothers me at all. The only bad thing about it is the constant phone calls I get wanting to know if I got my magazine yet. Then people call me asking me to call Rich since he is an old friend of mine. And what's up with the video contest?

Sorry, I hadn't posted anything in a very long time. This looked like a good place to start.



Hey Chris, welcome back, can I call you to see if you've gotten your magazine yet?

Are new memberships getting a longer wait on the magazine? I joined a few months ago, and have not received anything in regards to the magazine. I received all of my membership package stuff, but there was no magazine in there, and nothing has come in the mail since.

Just wondered what the time frame was on this magazine subscription.

Thanks.

I think you should get a back issue of #2, but you will not receive issue one. no one I know has gotten issue 3 yet.

actually, good luck getting anything from FDM at all. I think they went lemming style and took the high bridge to the sea.

How do I get my copy of Flying Disc?
Give us $19.95 and we�ll tell you secrets. Our panel of disc experts will reveal hidden pro tricks virtually guaranteed to lower your score or at least make you look better. We�ll help you raise your game to the next level. Unless you�re already hot stuff, in which case, go read the noninstructional stuff.

Give us $19.95 and we�ll solve all your problems! Have acne? Dandruff? Blotchy skin? A year of fdm will fix your skin care problems. Unemployed? Or merely underemployed? A year of fdm will raise your income, get you a promotion, add a new 401(K).

Give us $19.95 and we�ll name a city after you! Admitedly it�s a small backwater town in a country where no one speaks English and everyone carries a machete and eats with their fingers, but, hey, it�ll forever be known by mercenaries and escaped cons everywhere as (your name here).

And if you believe any of that stuff, send us double the regular amount and we�ll throw in a ticket to Heaven. Yes, you can die on the golf course with your best putter in your hand and wake up in Heaven, guranteed�we got a great group rate. Or, if you just want to improve your game, increase your vocabulary, feast your eyes on pages of gorgeous photos of the best courses, the best equipment, the best all-things-disc, a subscription is just the ticket. That we can do, no baloney.

And don�t worry, we include all disc chuckers in the fun. Whether disc golf, ultimate, jamming, field events, or barky dogs are your thing, we�ve got your back. We�ll even take care of the dozen or so psychos out there still playing guts. We love lids of all types and salute disc freaks everywhere. Join us. Read us. Give us $19.95.

We are what the doctor ordered. We are the skin on the potato. We are what you need. No, we haven�t the slightest idea what that potato thing means but it sounded cool so we left it in.

Give us $19.95 and we�ll give you what you want: a better game and a good time. Cheap at twice the price.

That�s $19.95 for one year (six issues). Or really take advantage of our good nature with our two year (twelve issue) rate of $34.95. You do the math.

Join fdm. Get better. Or just have a good time.

Hi Chris,

I posted this in the "PDGA Announcements" section back on March 17.


Greetings all,

After receiving the following question from many of you I thought I would address it here:

"How many issues of Flying Disc Magazine will I receive with my membership?"

Like your PDGA membership, when opting in for FDM through your membership, the subscription also runs the calendar year.

Join or Renew : Issues Received

Jan/Feb : Issues #1 - #6
Mar/Apr : Issues #2 - #6
May/June : Issues #3 - #6
July/Aug : Issues #4 - #6
Sept/Oct : Issues #5 - #6
Nov/Dec : Issue #6

Join/Renew early to enjoy full benefits!



Your process date is June 18th so you will start with Issue #3 which is to be released this week.

Thank you for your patience and membership.

Peace,
Addie

Memberships Manager
[email protected]

Issue #3 which is to be released this week.

Thank you for your patience and membership.

Peace,
Addie

Memberships Manager
[email protected]




please tell us you are serious. cuz I dont believe you.

Josh,

I do not post to mislead or "get hopes up". I am relaying what FDM has reported to us earlier this week. In addition, they are bringing copies to Worlds for everyone.

Please email me if you have further questions or concerns.

Peace,
Addie

Memberships Manager
[email protected]

thanks Addie. btw, I appreciate all you do for the PDGA. I've had to speak with you on two occasions and both times you have helped me immediately. thats what I love to see out of our association. oh, and as mentioned previously, you do have a pleasant speaking voice! :D

Awwww, how sweet! ;) I appreciate your kind words, Josh.

Members,

We are all here for you. Always know you can call the office with any questions or concerns. This is definitely the most I have viewed the message board lately. I have been trying to follow as I know that our members have concerns at times and don't always think about calling and asking the office staff before posting. We post updates as they become available but mainly to the PDGA Announcements section. So always check there first as we don't always see the questions in individual threads.

Now back to work... We passed member #37000 last week, by the way! :cool:

Thank you!

I think the current situation with the "official magazine of the PDGA" (i.e. FDM magazine) is totally unacceptable and unprofessional. Nothing against Mr. Givens, as I know he is a good guy, but this is a business relationship.

Here it is, almost the middle of August, and we have not even received issue #3 yet. We should have received this issue in late April or early May...that is 3 months (1/4 of a year) ago!

Where is the sense of urgency to meet a deadline? A courtesy email(s) also would have been nice when the deadlines were not met. I thought this new publication was going to "take it to the next level"? If the current situation is not remedied, and issues don't come on time for the rest of the year, I think the PDGA may need to think about yanking the contract.

P.S. That "disc dogger" guy is an [censored], and that beginner chick is a twit. Neither are funny. More tourney coverage please!!!! Also, more West Coast coverage!!! :cool:

-E

totally unacceptable and unprofessional



I agree...to point out that issue #3 is a 1/4 year late should be enough of a clue that FDM can't deliver what they were contracted to do for us (dues paying members of the PDGA). How about a $10 refund for current members that want to opt out now?

Rich has been handing out Issue 3 today at Timber Ridge and will continue at Fly Mart.

Wow, it must be nice to be privileged..... Meanwhile, in the real world..... the backbone of the PDGA who could not make it to Worlds sits and waits, taking their unwanted punishment like good trained little puppies... Yes sir, may I have another!

Chuck isn't so privileged.... I got mine today.

Personally, I like the new mag. I like the types of articles that they are printing. I think that everyone can benefit from well written instructional piece. If there was one knock I had on DGWN was Rick's tendency to give blow by blow accounts of tournaments.

As for the delay in the delivery... I guess I don't get that fussed about it. I've talked to Randy Signor and I understand the challenges that they have getting a new mag up and running. I think that, in the end, FDW will be a great.

It is their first year, quite a few kinks to work through, but I agree with the above post, I like the mag, love the articles, etc...and I've got both my mags on time $100 for each. They're priceless!!!

I feel sorry for all of the people who spent BIG MONEY to advertise in this mag and get info out for events, products and services &amp; are not getting much advertising for their money.

Still patiently waiting for my copy of Issue # 3...............

I think many of us enjoy the new magazine. Why else would we be crying about NOT getting it on time, every time!

But IMO it still needs to be cleaned up a bit in order for it to bear the tile of the "official magazine of disc golf"

I think it is somewhat unfair for FDM to use the PDGA members for support and their title and have the power to print what ever they want. The other issue is the so called multi-faceted scope of the publication. I read no real articles in the first two issues that actually covered ultimate, freestyle or disc-doggers. The main point was disc golf, and the rest was satire and useless IMO.....

Those instructional articles are well done and useful. But weird innuendos and the trash talk would not be missed.....

FDMs new site is up and will be improving nearly daily, check it out!
www.flyingdiscmagazine.com (http://www.flyingdiscmagazine.com)

Hey thanks for the heads up. I checked it out and it a vast improvement! The article on Feldberg was great....

You are welcome, keep checking back there will be pretty much new daily content and other improvements.

But IMO it still needs to be cleaned up a bit in order for it to bear the tile of the "official magazine of disc golf"



...interestingly, the latest edition doesn't even "bear" the PDGA logo on the front cover as the covers of all the previous editions of the "official magazine of disc golf" have done. :eek:

Finally received mine today since I wasn't at Worlds - too bad the discnation advertisement and discount expires 8/30/8 - too many of you won't even have it by then

and I love how the tourney results seem to just start out of the blue on the first page of the results with the back end of some tournament

Got mine two days ago.

Mag #3 anyone??? I now need 4 magazines in less than 3 months.

Maybe this could be a "cool" new contest, race the calendar to deliver people what they paid for!

New videos and new contests when none of the previous ones have gone anywhere. A new website with lots of new merchandise and stuff to buy, but nothing mentioning where the magazines are and what the realistic timetable for delivery is!!!

If you don't have Mag 3, you need to contact the PDGA office. It was sent during Worlds in August and those who attended also got copies. Issue 4 was apparently printed last week. I know they are completing content for Issue 5 right now.

Excellent! I'll call the PDGA office, thanks Chuck. Glad to hear things are moving with issue 4 and 5.

If you don't have Mag 3, you need to contact the PDGA office. It was sent during Worlds in August and those who attended also got copies. Issue 4 was apparently printed last week. I know they are completing content for Issue 5 right now.


Issue 4 printed last week? on July 13th the magazine posted that issue 4 would be put on a fast track. worlds was mid august and 2 months later they are just getting to print. Chuck how are these people expected to get 3 magazines with decent content in my hands in 71 day's? This magazine needs to get on the ball.

What is even a bigger bummer is this message baord is the only place to vent i just went to thier website and their contact page does not even work. i see adds for video's they are producing clothing adds for their logos on t-shirts etc. but no way to contact them to politley let them know they have an unhappy subscriber.

how are these people expected to get 3 magazines with decent content in my hands in 71 day's?



thats what I want to know.
I will opt out next year. Most PDGA tourneys I've played this year have had the current copy sitting around. I'll get to read it for free at some point.

Worst part is, I was a HUGE supporter of Rich and Crew at the beginning, as he is from PA, seemed genuine the few times I met him, and he is a huge disc golf fanatic. Seems good right?.... wrong, wrONG, WRONG.

they may have been too ambitous not realizing the scale of things, but when the going gets tough the tough get to the getting on. ::shrugs::

just my $.02

I don't know if Rick and company even want to produce Disc Golf World anymore, but maybe the PDGA needs to ask them for a proposal to start it up again next year. Although the Flying Disc Magazine was decent, I think Disc Golf World was better, and at least came out in a timely fashion. With three issues yet to come out before the end of the year, it will be quite a feat to accomplish.

disc golf world news= better
disc golf magazine= better

both likely sent to the grave by the pdga's selection of fdm.

didn't disc golf world not respond to the rfp?

Oh and keep an ear out for a MAJOR contest we're rolling out this Spring.
-Rich



Who one this video contest FDM ran? There doesn't seem to be any information anywhere even though it was posted that they would notify us of the winner a week or so after the deadline (which was in late May). Anyone know?

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_8_5.gifhttp://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fimgfarm%252Ecom%252Fimages%252F nocache%252Ftr%252Ffw%252Fsmiley%252Fsocial%252Egi f%253Fi%253D5%252F5_8_5%2526uiv%253D3.0/image.gif (http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253F partner%253DZSzeb008%255FZRfox000%2526i%253D5%252F 5%255F8%255F5%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html)

wasnt the next issue supposed to come out right after worlds, what a joke, is it too late to get a refund?

speaking of refund.....

being the realist i am, what is the PDGA going to do when FDM doesn't deliver the 6 issues as promised? how am i, the gullible FDM subscriber, going to be reimbursed for their and the PDGAs failure to deliver promised benefits of membership? with i receive a $10 credit towards my renewal? that only seems fair. Please dont try to offer me a fee subscription with my paid membership next year as i have no desire to read the fluff and full page adds that is FDM. I mean for christs sake the issue i got at worlds had an add reminding the reader to reg. for worlds. that was the ultimate irony for me. speaking of....i was handed a copy at worlds but never received one in the mail.....So powers that be, what is your solution???

speaking of refund.....

...full page adds that is FDM...



From what I understand...Some of those advertisers paid upfront for full page ads in 6 issues :o

so issue #4 was supposed to be ready after words, its november next week and supposed to be shipping out, any guesses if we will actually see it before the new year if at all?

Dear PDGA Members,

The PDGA Board of Directors and executive director held a specially called teleconference with Rich Givens last week to discuss the ongoing problems with the timely delivery of Flying Disc Magazine to our members. Rich was asked at that time to post an explanation/apology to our members on the discussion board and the following post was made last night:

http://discussion.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=884372&amp;Main=884372#Post8 84372

Only two vendors responded to the RFP for magazine services last year, Flying Disc Magazine (Rich Givens) and Disc Golf Magazine (Dave Henrickson). I personally asked Disc Golf World News (Rick Rothstein) to submit a bid but he declined, saying that he needed a break and that the new member opt out made the contract less viable from a business standpoint.

It appears that a portion of the difficulties and challenges that FDM have been facing this year are as a result of the opt out as Rick had indicated.

henrickson's content was far superior and more professional than anything i received from DGWN or FDM. why the pdga didn't decide to go with an established publisher of a disc golf regular is beyond me. instead, we the pdga decided to gamble with an unproven publication and found ourselves subsidizing a failed parenting magazine with a publisher who seems to have a chip on his shoulder.

it's about time to get smart.

also, FDM ought to set slightly more realistic expectations and not make impossible promises. how serious are we supposed to take them when they're shooting for retail distribution when they can't even deliver a quality product to a captive subscriber base?

explanation/apology


Mr. Graham,
thank you for this input. i would say the post Mr. Givens submitted does very little to ease mine, and i am sure many many members concerns about the magazine. It was more of an advertisement as opposed to an explanation and was a very slack appology for the huge short comings of what we have paid for. if this years opt out was an issue i would be very worried about 2009's opt out numbers. Thanks again Mr. Graham for you input it is very much appreciated.

how serious are we supposed to take them when they're shooting for retail distribution and they can't even deliver a quality product to a captive (PREPAID) subscriber base?


Preach it brother. very well said and i concur on the "chip on the shoulder" comment. i get that feeling as well.

explanation/apology


Mr. Graham,
thank you for this input. i would say the post Mr. Givens submitted does very little to ease mine, and i am sure many many members concerns about the magazine. It was more of an advertisement as opposed to an explanation and was a very slack appology for the huge short comings of what we have paid for. if this years opt out was an issue i would be very worried about 2009's opt out numbers. Thanks again Mr. Graham for you input it is very much appreciated.



I thought the same thing, half you know what apology/explanation, i certainly wont be renewing for the fact that I have not received even part of the money I paid for this and i'm sure I never will and nothing will happen. Dude should have to pay our money back for services that were not delivered.

It appears that a portion of the difficulties and challenges that FDM have been facing this year are as a result of the opt out as Rick had indicated.



I have a hunch the opt out is about to get a lot worse...

Opt out was not a great idea last year for this very reason, now I'm glad the option is there for next year. I don't see FDM surviving.

It appears that a portion of the difficulties and challenges that FDM have been facing this year are as a result of the opt out as Rick had indicated.



this conclusion seems unwarranted! is that rick rothstein's comment, or Rich of FDMs?

FDM knew ahead of time what the opt in rate was. and it was as high or higher than anyone really had hoped for.

optin should lessen poor performance because as others have pointed out - poor performance leads to lower optin rates.

please, explain how "the difficulties and challenges that FDM have been facing this year are as a result of the opt out as Rick had indicated"

regardless, the decision to go opt-in was and remains the correct one. the mag is EXPENSIVE! in our cms-driven world, forcing members to subsidize paper products is a questionable proposition. not that there arent any bennies - but they sure dont outweigh the downside.

even if FDM ends up failing, putting it out to bid and making it optional remains the right way to go for a stronger PDGA in the longterm..

that post from FDM is a joke...

Feedback..don't have time to post..

do you have time to read them??

get your game together

you and the PDGA

sad year for the game in a Membership and Association role in 2008...

at a time when our sport is exploding again in new members/players

and get rid of the dog golfer section..that guy only demeans (sp?) our sport...even his apology reply was crass...he is not helping the "cause"

every one i know is opting out next year...also powers that be, you never responded to my question? if by december 31st i don't have issue 6 in my hand how will i be reimbursed for the failure of FDM and the PDGA to deliver on my membership benefits?

It is October 31st.
I have not received FDM Issue #3 yet.

And while it is only one phone call down to Georgia, I resent having to call for something I should have received months ago.

It would be nice if the PDGA staff would post an editable table to which you can add your name if you have not yet received certain benefit items, like magazine issues.

I will certainly opt out of the mag in 2009, and it makes me nuts because I would LOVE to support FDM and the PDGA more.
But it is getting harder to justify throwing my money into this brokedown palace.

regardless, the decision to go opt-in was and remains the correct one


Opt in always was and is the wrong decision. Many predicted, myself among them, that going optional could lead to the eventual death of a PDGA magazine.

I'm not saying FDM is dead; I hope it is not and wish it well. But it came into existence in an environment made hostile to its existence by its optional status.

How many of us opted in?

"Please accept our apologies for any inconveniences"

again this makes me laugh, who is inconvenienced, certainly not the people who paid for the magazine, screwed would be a more accurate description

It appears that a portion of the difficulties and challenges that FDM have been facing this year are as a result of the opt out as Rick had indicated.



I'd like to see the actual numbers of PDGA member that opted out.

regardless, the decision to go opt-in was and remains the correct one


Opt in always was and is the wrong decision. Many predicted, myself among them, that going optional could lead to the eventual death of a PDGA magazine.

I'm not saying FDM is dead; I hope it is not and wish it well. But it came into existence in an environment made hostile to its existence by its optional status.



have you considered that if a magazine isn't viable without a forced subscription base it probably isn't a worthy effort? maybe we the pdga need some sort of print communication, but requiring in an RFP that it be glossy w/ a minimum # of pgs, etc is characteristic of the antique pdga way of being that will never foster innovative solutions or creative ideas.

perhaps 10 yrs ago when the web wasn't THE primary means of dissemination of information the magazine should have been and was a priority. times have changed. those who keep a nice, crisp issue of each PDGA mag to savour may fear change because of nostalgia.

the opt in option certainly isn't creating a hostile environment for a print mag. the hostile environment was created by the cheaper, faster and better ways of communicating that are spelling a slow death for even our nations most storied print periodicals.

we shouldn't pretend that the popularity of our sport warrants a glossy print mag when in fact it can't support it without PDGA subsidy. all sorts of those types of magazines are going under right now in far more popular and more importantly, more lucrative, areas of interest.

cut it back to something more practical, affordable, realistic, and more relevant, or let it die.

regardless, the decision to go opt-in was and remains the correct one


Opt in always was and is the wrong decision. Many predicted, myself among them, that going optional could lead to the eventual death of a PDGA magazine.

I'm not saying FDM is dead; I hope it is not and wish it well. But it came into existence in an environment made hostile to its existence by its optional status.

BS!. everyone knew going in december/january what the optin rate was. plenty of time for planning. the fact that optin exists is notthe problem. lanning and execution is a more likely culprit. so far, NO ONE has articulated a coherent reasoning for optin causing issues with magazine delivery.

regardless, the decision to go opt-in was and remains the correct one


Opt in always was and is the wrong decision. Many predicted, myself among them, that going optional could lead to the eventual death of a PDGA magazine.

I'm not saying FDM is dead; I hope it is not and wish it well. But it came into existence in an environment made hostile to its existence by its optional status.

BS!. everyone knew going in december/january what the optin rate was. plenty of time for planning. the fact that optin exists is notthe problem. lanning and execution is a more likely culprit. so far, NO ONE has articulated a coherent reasoning for optin causing issues with magazine delivery.



NOBODY knew what the opt out rate would be unless they have a crystal ball!

Members join at all times of the year beginning in the previous November through the following October. How could anyone know how many of those members would choose to opt out of the magazine when they joined, especially in the first year that this option was offered?

For the record, I am and have always been against the magazine opt out option but that is something that I inherited when I took over as executive director.

um, i guess you dont remember the meetings where we discussed the optin rate thjroughout the fall as renewals came in? or during the early part of the year as renewals came in?

remember giving us actual number (~75% opt in?) and commenting that is seemed strong, was steady as renewals came in, and was just about, if not a bit better, than expected? or the analyses you did several times on how family signups were also performing as expected relative to optins?

i do. we were tracking as expected, if not a bit better. we DID have a projection before we did this. it was based on the best available input at the time. we pretty much nailed it, too. to say that the actual rate blindsided us is not really true - it was what we expected!

still waiting to hear your reasoning on how an optin policy led to the current struggles, and whether it was Rich FDM or Rick BoD who made that earlier statement.

thanks,

"have you considered that if a magazine isn't viable without a forced subscription base it probably isn't a worthy effort?"

Yes, although I didn't start out with "probably isn't," but instead with "might not be." In fact, I recently made the decision to stop offering print version subscriptions to libraries, of a scholarly journal which I manage for my employer. Even so, we continue to publish it in print for members despite it costing twice what we receive in revenues from it. The strategic value for the association outweighs the cost.

Even in the digital world, of which I am a bleeding-edge adopter (I've now read several novels on my Kindle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindle).) with regard to publishing, there are valid and important information/knowledge and other association purposes for a print magazine or journal.

There are many association magazines which are both a source of knowledge and information about a topic or theme and also vital to the organization's own corporate interests (as well as a carrier of advertising) - yet which could not survive on their own as independent cost/revenue centers.

Not being able to support it as its own cost/revenue center is only one consideration of many regarding the magazine's purpose and value. When the board's decision ensured that it is not the case that every member will be sent each issue, that was a decision that cut deeply into the more strategic value of such a publication. I think that was a mistake.

um, i guess you dont remember the meetings where we discussed the optin rate thjroughout the fall as renewals came in? or during the early part of the year as renewals came in?

remember giving us actual number (~75% opt in?) and commenting that is seemed strong, was steady as renewals came in, and was just about, if not a bit better, than expected? or the analyses you did several times on how family signups were also performing as expected relative to optins?

i do. we were tracking as expected, if not a bit better. we DID have a projection before we did this. it was based on the best available input at the time. we pretty much nailed it, too. to say that the actual rate blindsided us is not really true - it was what we expected!

still waiting to hear your reasoning on how an optin policy led to the current struggles, and whether it was Rich FDM or Rick BoD who made that earlier statement.

thanks,



The numbers you are referring to from last fall were projections for budgetary purposes only and as it turned out, my projection was pretty darn accurate, within 3%. The 75% number you mention was a report of our opt in rate at a single moment in time during our year long membership cycle. If you remember correctly, I also reported that our opt out rate was at 10% at one point earlier in the year. Surely you understand that the opt out rate changes every week when we process new membership batches.

I never said or posted anywhere that "the actual rate blindsided us" as you erroneously indicate above. Those are your words, not mine.

The answer to your last question is in my original post. The only two people who have ever published a magazine for the PDGA agree that the opt out makes the contract less viable and I happen to agree with them. Feel free to disagree but I will not be debating this issue with you on the discussion board.

The only two people who have ever published a magazine for the PDGA agree that the opt out makes the contract less viable and I happen to agree with them.



by 'viable' do you and they mean that giving the membership the opt-out option many requested makes demand for the magazine too unpredictable? is it about guaranteed income? Dave Hendrickson seems to do a great job -- maybe we could learn from him. What is his take on the opt-out option and the contract viability? (we might have to solicit his perspective confidentially)

Dave's magazine (Disc Golf Magazine) is free. Isn't it?

..and I think the reason for the "opt out" option was because of the large increase in join/renewal fees.
Kind of to soften the blow.

I think the magazine is fine and could work. I do not think it is a good option for the PDGA publication. Nothing against Flying Disc, just that as far as the reason the PDGA uses them, to get the schedule and the pdga pages to the members, they aren't getting it done.

Would it be reasonable for them to do a timely supplement to the mag and send this out to the subscribers? Then when the glossy mag is ready to ship, things like ads and the schedule will not be out of date.

brian, again you deftly avoid the point.

:"The only two people who have ever published a magazine for the PDGA agree that the opt out makes the contract less viable and I happen to agree with them."

i understand you might not respond, but i will ask again anyway: WHY do you agree? i sincerely hope it is more than "because they have published magazines for hte pdga".

its great that they believe it and that you agree with them. they might even be right. but simply agreeing is not a reason. what is the reason you agree? if you have one, please feel free to not respond.

Pat, since you didn't misquote me this time as saying something that I never said: ;)

ECONOMIES OF SCALE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Economies_of_scale.PNG
The increase in output from Q to Q2 causes a decrease in the average cost of each unit from C to C1.

Economies of scale refers to the decreased per unit cost as output increases. More clearly, the initial investment of capital is diffused (spread) over an increasing number of units of output, and therefore, the marginal cost of producing a good or service decreases as production increases.


Bob &amp; Rob,
To the best of my knowledge, Dave Henrickson ceased the publication of Disc Golf Magazine some time back.

probably he gave away too many for free ;) it was a great publication, you've got to give him that. Sounds like he may be available then if needed?

ps: nice Ross Perot like chart :p

thanks Brian for the thing on economies of scale. the bad thing about that argument is that the actual rate was darn near precisely the predicted rate. ie, the baseline plan's primary input (number of pdga subscriptions) was met exactly. given that, economies of scale (actually this is simple volume pricing) are not in play because nothing has changed from the plan.

of course y'all will blame the opt in. the blamers are the guy who is not delivering on schedule, the guy who opted out when opt in was opted in, and the guy who has final responsibility for the whole thing. opt in is a very easy target for blame. not the correct one, just the easiest.

I didn't understand that chart at all?!? Please and thank you though. It was cool looking!

I wasn't suggesting DGM as a choice as I thought of it as an advertisment anyway. A very satisfiying one.

I'm serious about the supplement. Does anyone thing that could work? Cost effective for them?

ECONOMIES OF SCALE

Economies of scale refers to the decreased per unit cost as output increases. More clearly, the initial investment of capital is diffused (spread) over an increasing number of units of output, and therefore, the marginal cost of producing a good or service decreases as production increases.




more customers allows mass production which leads to lowered production costs for the publisher, but i am not convinced forcing all members to be subscribers is in the long-term interests of the PDGA or the magazine.

short-term, the opt-in feature may appear to make the contract less viable, but long-term it could work to the magazine's advantage. can we not build the contract in such a way that it helps offset higher costs based on the economies of scale while also including incentives for the magazine to publish on-time, increase subscriptions, and become self-sustaining?

the same holds true of making a cheaper membership available to first-time members. this will attract in more members which should lead to larger overall long-term retention. it is in our long-term interests to not be too focused on short-term revenues if we want to grow the PDGA.

allowing the membership to opt into or out of the magazine subscription may decrease the income which the magazine producer is guaranteed, but it also makes the the PDGA and its subscribing membership a true customer rather than a captive one. the success of the mag is going to rest on the demand it creates -- not by guaranteed income.

it cant always be easy having 10,000 bosses to serve, but having 100,000 and not 11,000 is the goal, right? :D

seriously where is issue #4?? or issue #1 for that matter?

in an effort to boost the PDGA's environmental image, issues 3 and greater have been turned into pulp and used for teepads at the IDGC.?

Any of you guys who want a DG magazine, feel free to invest in Disc Golf Live video magazine. New PDGA-member subscription price ($36) and a track record of 26 episodes produced to date, on time. Delivered.

No contests or fancy packaging, just good content.

Joe

So now we have to go to Augusta and root around for our next issues? You think they would mind if I brought my own toilet paper and went behind a tree to read?

so where is the magazine???

so can i assume now that issue #4 coming directly after worlds, was in reference to worlds 2009?

Dear PDGA Members,

The PDGA Board of Directors and executive director held a specially called teleconference with Rich Givens last week to discuss the ongoing problems with the timely delivery of Flying Disc Magazine to our members. Rich was asked at that time to post an explanation/apology to our members on the discussion board and the following post was made last night:

http://discussion.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=884372&amp;Main=884372#Post8 84372

Only two vendors responded to the RFP for magazine services last year, Flying Disc Magazine (Rich Givens) and Disc Golf Magazine (Dave Henrickson). I personally asked Disc Golf World News (Rick Rothstein) to submit a bid but he declined, saying that he needed a break and that the new member opt out made the contract less viable from a business standpoint.

It appears that a portion of the difficulties and challenges that FDM have been facing this year are as a result of the opt out as Rick had indicated.


1) So lets get this straight.....we have received 3 issues so far in the first 310 days of this year yet we are supposed to get 3 more "quality" issues in the next 55 days? right.

2) Also what penalties were written into the contract for not meeting the terms of said contract?

While I have enjoyed reading Flying Disc magazine, imo Disc Golf World News was a much better publication.

"It appears that a portion of the difficulties and challenges that FDM have been facing this year are as a result of the opt out as Rick had indicated. "

man that makes me angry ever time i read it. nothing more than a lame excuse. the opt in rate that the assopciation delivered was exactly what we planned for. blaming problems that are this severe on the optin rate is just plain wrong.

as far as penalties, you'll need to get that directly from the office. Brian is typically given authority for working out contract details, and at least while i was on the Board, final contracts never came back to the BoD for review. the BoD gave the go ahead to negotiate, and BG takes it from there.

Any of you guys who want a DG magazine, feel free to invest in Disc Golf Live video magazine. New PDGA-member subscription price ($36) and a track record of 26 episodes produced to date, on time. Delivered.

No contests or fancy packaging, just good content.

Joe



Classic Burn!!!

YAWN

for all those hating on the mag- go back and find a copy of DGWN the first year it was included as part of PDGA membership. look @ the quality of production and of content those first FEW YEARS. Rich has put a lot of work and money into this magazine, lets give him a chance.

do we really need to go back to Lynne Warren being a head writer? come on people

one thing that Rich had no control over is that after years of the PDGA mag being mandatory for members, we choose to make it optional BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDNT WANT DGWN....so dgwn has years of auto subcribers, then we get a new mag(something many of us wanted) who then suffers because people thought dgwn was worthless.

I got to have a couple interesting conversations about the magazine this past weekend with someone who has some inside knowledge about the mag, and I was really excited to hear about Rich trying to help out sport become more mainstream. so while its real easy to criticize from behind a computer, what are you haters doing to help the game?

YAWN

so quit reading and posting if you are so bored.

I haven't read this whole thread. Apparently, there is a late delivery, an observation about economies of scale, and a debate about the opt-in (or opt out) option.

Are y'all talking about a relationship where the opt-in policy limits the economy of scale and thus causes delivery delays; or are y'all talking about delays causing future opt-outs, further reducing the economy of scale and creating a death spiral?