He's a **** good football player though. :D

Boy, I didn't realize the king was soooooo hated!!! We should really quite discriminating against a guy with a big freaky looking head. Though, I do like the football commercial, that one dosen't bother me so much. :D

you guys should have seen the video i saw online of that burger king....you would REALLY be scared of that freak...lol(totally inappropriate for me to post a link or anything...i am syure you guys could find it if you wanted to)

The 1991 Pro Worlds had Wendy's as the title sponsor with their name in front of the title as in Wendy's 1991 P.D.G.A. World Disc Golf Championship in Dayton, OH. Otherwise, I'm not sure we've had that high level sponsorship from a fast food company. Mmmmm Wendy..., uh, I mean Wendy's.

hey fuzzy, send me a pm with the link!

you guys should have seen the video i saw online of that burger king....you would REALLY be scared of that freak...lol(totally inappropriate for me to post a link or anything...i am syure you guys could find it if you wanted to)


If it's anything like the Lego animation I have bookmark^h^h^h^h^h I accidently visited, then I can guess what it's like. :)

speaking of legos. what about a full size lego basket? anybody still have their legos. We could pull them as a sponsor if presented correctly.
unless......... someone is offended by legos!

The 1991 Pro Worlds had Wendy's as the title sponsor with their name in front of the title as in Wendy's 1991 P.D.G.A. World Disc Golf Championship in Dayton, OH. Otherwise, I'm not sure we've had that high level sponsorship from a fast food company. Mmmmm Wendy..., uh, I mean Wendy's.




Pizza Hut in 93'

uh the king parody just ruined burger king for me forever. ****....and I really like their fries. :(

Actually, ...I think the burger "King" is really Kevin McCoy in disguise....Based on his latest results....Gorilla suits may have recently risen above his current stock market earning potential....... :o:D

The 1991 Pro Worlds had Wendy's as the title sponsor with their name in front of the title as in Wendy's 1991 P.D.G.A. World Disc Golf Championship in Dayton, OH. Otherwise, I'm not sure we've had that high level sponsorship from a fast food company. Mmmmm Wendy..., uh, I mean Wendy's.



Everyone know's it's Wendy. ;) :D

Was that kevin in the parody of the king I just watched? :eek:

Looks like I might have officially killed this thread for a while. wooooohoooo!!!!!!

Jeff you need a hobby.

Are junior girls competing at Worlds? i wonder how the women feel about Hooters as a sponsor? some might say it's no big whoop -- but i doubt it's a good way to encourage more women to play our sport...

Of course, we'll have other committee volunteers presenting at the Summit with ratings of 986, 998 and 1013.



would some of those high rated players be on the Rules Committee? ;)

Where does Pat fit in in terms of BoD ratings. Just about right? :D I think Pat would be an excellent leader -- and i will vote for him -- just so long as he's not allowed to reinstate the 2 Meter Rule as the default scenario :eek:

Chuck, would you say players rated 1000 or higher are about as likely to serve on the BoD as top ball pro golfers are likely to help run the PGA?

Are vegetarians competing at Worlds? i wonder how vegetarians would feel about Outback Steakhouse as a sponsor? :D

vegetarians are used to living in a society that doesn't find the eating of animal flesh distasteful. are you arguing that junior girls and women players either are, or should be, used to being treated like sex objects? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

No, I am saying they shouldnt be offended nor ashamed of the human body and that I personally dont beleive in this day and age that they are.

My main point is that I dont think the PDGA should be turning away any sponsor opportunities at this point. There are a few exceptions but Hooters imo is not one of them.

so you think then that most am women golfers would be on board with this? i somehow doubt that...

being a guy, i know why guys would tend to be all for it /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

My main point is that I dont think the PDGA should be turning away any sponsor opportunities at this point. There are a few exceptions but Hooters imo is not one of them.



but the BoD should also weigh whether the choice would impact the number of women interested in taking up and sticking with competitive disc golf. Being an Amateur Worlds event -- i think need for cash sponsors should carry less weight and if it was for food then imo it's definitely not worth offending even a minority of players over

My main point is that I dont think the PDGA should be turning away any sponsor opportunities at this point. There are a few exceptions but Hooters imo is not one of them.



how about the United Arab Emirates? :eek:

quite trying to preach how you think young women feel about this. did you watch the olympics? its obvious women in sports are different than the women in the church choir. silver medalist figure skater with her tounge pierced. snowboarders with pierced tounges tatoos etc... i don't think you are living in2006. I don't know any women my age at 33 that would be offended. to discriminate against a legitimat company that has done so well it owns an airline is just plain idiotic. Now if a porn company or strip jointed wanted to sposor that is a different story. Lighten up on a legitimate company willing to help out our sport.

how about the United Arab Emirates? :eek:

[/QUOTE]

that is blantant racial discrimination. what are you insinuating by refering to an arab nation like that. With that remark, you have just driven away any arab american from taking up disc golf. :mad:

Fact is, you most likely will not find a sponsor that offends absolutely no one. Hooters could offend the ladies. United Arab Emirates could offend the Jews. What you have to look at is the likelihood that some group will be offended and the degree to which they might be offended. It's a judgement call. I realize that being politically correct can sometimes be a hassle, but it can be very valuable in creating an environment where the greatest number of people feel welcome and comfortable enough to attend the event being sponsored.

Being an Amateur Worlds event -- i think need for cash sponsors should carry less weight and if it was for food then imo it's definitely not worth offending even a minority of players over




You should consider rethinking that statement.

Does Am worlds have an all paid staff.? How about paid spotters and officials on every hole? The scorekeeper, does he even get paid? How about a guy to stand on every tee to hold up the "quiet" sign, paid? Radio and TV ads, are they free nowadays? Film crew???

The list goes on and on . There is a serious need for cash regardless if it is for Ams or Pros. Probably not a good idea to get real picky about sponsors until you have so much money you have no clue what to do with it.

As a volunteer that is currently working on this year's Am Worlds, we would take cash from about any sponsor. Cash is needed!
Port-a-johns
tents
meeting rooms
players party
Players program
Magazine ads
Banners
Ice
water coolers
ice chests
score cards
maps
baskets (66)
tee signs (72)
tee pads(55)

The last three on the list total over 30K!

It all adds up boys and it adds up to a LOT of money or cash needed.

I personally believe any legal, legitimate, and ethical sponsor should be more than welcomed.
I supported Hooters while they were sponsoring the Texas 10. I try support those businesses that support beliefs and activites that I support. I do know of at least one woman that complained about that sponsor. I am not sure who else she made her feelings known to other than myself, while eating there.
I probably will not eat at Hooters when the are not directly sponsoring a disc golf event...same goes for beer sponsors. However, I am more than happy to welcome them as a sponsor and likewise sponsor them with my patronage because of their sponsorship.
Has anyone ever approached a sponsor such as Sharpie for a World's event? The use of their product is almost required by the rules, uniquely marking your discs. If so, what was the result?
Does the PDGA staff/headquarters/BoD assist with obtaining sponsors for a tournament as large a World's event or is it completely up to the locals? just curious.

This isn't a black or white issue in the way that it typically devolves in these discussions. Hooters and Burger King would be welcome sponsors at all levels including majors. What they expect for their level of sponsorship and how that's portrayed is the issue. Those are the judgment calls that are apparently being made. Coupons and ads in programs, player packs and on tee signs just aren't that controversial. Having their "mascots" show up for certain activities or having official events on their premises might be less appropriate based on the audience. To my knowledge, there's no written guidebook and it's dealt with on a case by case basis.

Does the PDGA staff/headquarters/BoD assist with obtaining sponsors for a tournament as large a World's event or is it completely up to the locals? just curious.



No, they do not. Obtaining sponsors falls soley on the local club and organizers.

It was stated (I don't know if it is truth or not) that someone just wanted to approach their inside contacts with Hooters and was told by the PDGA not to. If you are not allowed to even approach a business then how can you know that they want to have scantily clad women serving the players out on the course as part of their sponsorship?

I am glad at least on woman chimed in and it sounds as though she would not be offended by the sponsor in question. If the pdga would set fourth what is expected by a sponsor, this issue would be easy to deal with, but their is nothing to guide the members and clubs involved.I would have a problem with the hooters girls handing out the trophies if they were dressed in uniform, but say one of the women managers, dressed appropriatly could. the scantly dressed girls could have a tent and serve wings or whatever at the event but not be the awarders. Same with the budweiser girls or the captain morgan shot girls, etc......

hey twoputt, keep up the good work. people like you who put fourth the effort are who make is org great. :D

Thanks, I appreciate that, but I'm am one of many here in Tulsa working to bring this event where it needs to be.

I just have better access to a computer. ;)

I have been keeping up with whats going on up there with you guys. I've bought some twisted products and cfr discs. From what I can tell the tulsa club is really organized and everything is progressing well. good luck. If I can make it up there for the last rounds I'll volunteer to help if help is needed.Good luck TULSA keep up the hard work, it will all pay off tenfold!

Is it up to the club to put together the sponsorship packages, meaning the programs that sponsors recieve about how their money is used and the advertisemants they recieve? Or does the pdga present sponsorship levels and packages and the club rounds up the sponsors? What involvement does the pdga have in worlds? I think the bod needs to put together info that would help guide clubs on these matters. If I had pulled a top level sponsor that I thought was appropriate and then have the pdga nix it I would be po'ed. Maybe the old guys on the board can put some thought into this and present some guidence for sponsorship that would allow those who are trying to get sponsors to follow. I think that for men to sit here and say what women would accept is dumb, maybe the women should form a comittee to go over what is and is not offensive to them as players. I just hate when men assume they know what women think. I am guilty of this but my approach is more openminded than most who have been railing against hooters etc...and making statements that a woman should be making.

Is it up to the club to put together the sponsorship packages, meaning the programs that sponsors recieve about how their money is used and the advertisemants they recieve? <font color="red">Yes it is up to the club </font> Or does the pdga present sponsorship levels and packages and the club rounds up the sponsors? <font color="red"> No, the PDGA has had nothing to do with our sponsorship program </font> What involvement does the pdga have in worlds? <font color="red"> They handle the invites, wait lists and provide a financial stipen, they assist with course reviews, budget reviews and scoring sysytems </font> I think the bod needs to put together info that would help guide clubs on these matters. <font color="red"> They do help guide us but provide no support in obtaining sponsors </font> If I had pulled a top level sponsor that I thought was appropriate and then have the pdga nix it I would be po'ed. <font color="red"> The PDGA has not officialy tolds us who we can accept and who we can't. Only suggestions were given </font> Maybe the old guys on the board can put some thought into this and present some guidence for sponsorship that would allow those who are trying to get sponsors to follow. <font color="red">I think they have enough problems getting their own sponsors for the Tour events </font> I think that for men to sit here and say what women would accept is dumb, maybe the women should form a comittee to go over what is and is not offensive to them as players. I just hate when men assume they know what women think. I am guilty of this but my approach is more openminded than most who have been railing against hooters etc...and making statements that a woman should be making.

so if the pdga is really not involved, why is there an arguement and all this hoopla?

I have a feeling that all of the argument and hoopla exists only on the message board amongst the message boarders that are offended at the idea of the PDGA putting some potential sponsors off limits.

Because Worlds (am or pro) are the biggest PDGA sanctioned/sponsored/supported event. What goes on there does reflect directly upon the PDGA.

As for Hooters, I don't eat at Hooters. Just overpriced bar food. As for Hooters girls at PDGA events... no thanks.

It's alway scantally clad women. Where are the buff guys?

obviously there are people offended at the thouht of turning down potential sponsors that are legit. so who wins, the men who think they know whats best for women or the majority of the posters on the board.

It's alway scantally clad women. Where are the buff guys?



it depends on the hole assignments!! ;)

There is a signed contract with the PDGA. The clubs who bid on hosting the event have agreed to do it under those guidelines, some which require checking with the PDGA for approval. To imply the BOD is regularly gathered to make these decisions is misguided. Most of these evolving policies are based on accumulated experience. Our Executive Director and Competition Director make the calls based on this experience. Don't discount the role of our "superwoman" Membership Manager, Lorrie Gibson who monitors the pulse of our membership with a steady stream of daily emails and phone calls, especially from the women members.

you will need to speak to the national marketing groups about that. women respond to marketting differently than men. men see sex and that sells. women don't perceive things the same way. just look at the ads on tv.
Marketing and advertising class at SWT University :D

As a volunteer that is currently working on this year's Am Worlds, we would take cash from about any sponsor. Cash is needed!
Port-a-johns
tents
meeting rooms
players party
Players program
Magazine ads
Banners
Ice
water coolers
ice chests
score cards
maps
baskets (66)
tee signs (72)
tee pads(55)

The last three on the list total over 30K!

It all adds up boys and it adds up to a LOT of money or cash needed.



That is a lot of money to raise, for sure. How much cash was Hooters offering? the nice thing about the Baskets Teepads and Teesigns is your local area will get to keep them for your own use.

I think it is awesome that disc golfers step up to the plate and host Worlds. I live in the Cincinnati area, and when i got hooked on disc golf in 2003 i learned that Cinci hosted Pro Worlds twice. When i asked if it would likely happen again -- the incredible amount of work that is involved running a tournament like that was cited as likely to keep it from happening. I also didn't realize the event staff might get paid rather than volunteer -- but i guess that makes sense.

As for women -- i don't have children but i do have neices. Young girls have enough stupid body image 'expectations' created by corporate use of sex to sell their products -- and that often leads to eating disorders and self-esteem issues. Correct me if i am wrong, but it seems to me that women disc golfers most likely want to be respected for their game and their person -- not necessarily the protrusion ratio of their chests. So i personally would hesitate to grab Hooters as a sponsor (sorry grab might have been a poor choice of words).
otoh, I guess it would be greatly welcomed by most young men -- who make up the majority of our sport. And my opinion is just that -- my opinion.

I do wonder though how it would effect the feelings of some other potential corporate sponsors for the event ...

as for the United Arab Emirates thing -- that was a joke and not a racial remark to all arabs. however the country mentioned did have claim to two of the 9-1-1 hijackers. Iraq had none. Saudia Arabia had the most and funds al qaeda the most as well. i am sure most citizens of the United Arab Emirate are good people. But we should be careful who we do business with too.

what % of women are active pdga?

The women players are not required to wear the hooters uniform!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe women shouldn't watch tv for they may get an eating disorder.

as for the United Arab Emirates thing -- that was a joke and not a racial remark to all arabs. however the country mentioned did have claim to two of the 9-1-1 hijackers. Iraq had none. Saudia Arabia had the most and funds al qaeda the most as well. i am sure most citizens of the United Arab Emirate are good people. But we should be careful who we do business with too.

[/QUOTE]
I understand the joke generalizing arabs, but this is not about world issues and terrorist it is sponsors. Beer can lead to alcoholism, mcdonalds can cause obesity, where does this stop?

The women players are not required to wear the hooters uniform!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe women shouldn't watch tv for they may get an eating disorder.



what is on tv is dictated by money which is the bottom line in our society. Ethics, morals, and even just what is best for children is way back on the priority list.

this is not about world issues and terrorist it is sponsors. Beer can lead to alcoholism, mcdonalds can cause obesity, where does this stop?



well, that is up for us to determine. whether or not to accept liquor company and fast food sponsors is something that professional sports grapple with. it is worth looking at. there are pros and cons to accepting a Hooters sponsorship. I am thinking of families going to Worlds and competing for titles in divisions from junior girls and across the spectrum. I really think the presence of Hooters girls is not appropriate for an Amateur Worlds Event. You obviously disagree.

I understand where you are coming from but hooters as a sponsor would not cause the junior women to go get their boobs enlarged or wear skimpy clothing. I think you are going overboard on your justifications for your arguement and should probably step back and look at the big picture. There are a lot of popular clothing companys that youg women are influenced by as well as hollywood whisch probably has the greatest influence. hooters will not be a bad influence on anyone in my opinion. hooter is pg-13 and I think that as a restaurant and airline they would make a great sponsor. they could give players reduced fares as well as discounts at their resteraunt.

Imo, Hooters has every right to sponsor PDGA players and help them with their expenses in exchange for wearing the Hooters logo, etc.

What i think is worth questioning is whether Hooters is a good official sponsor of the PDGA Amateur World Championships?

By the way, did you see miss america this year. they allowed bikinis for the first time in their history. that shows more than the hooters outfit. And they are looked up to as role models by many young women.

if they are willing to support the sport and are not x rated, why not? Whats the difference than if Des was sponsored by hooters, all young women players look up to Des and they should, she is a great woman. think about what you just posted.

Imo, Hooters has every right to sponsor PDGA players and help them with their expenses in exchange for wearing the Hooters logo, etc.

What i think is worth questioning is whether Hooters is a good official sponsor of the PDGA Amateur World Championships?



Well, that is not really the question to me. The questions are: Why would Hooters be rejected before even being approached? Who said that Hooters girls would be at the course? Who said they were going to be approached as the official sponsor of the PDGA Amatuer World Championships?

I have a feeling that all of the argument and hoopla exists only on the message board amongst the message boarders that are offended at the idea of the PDGA putting some potential sponsors off limits.



Agreed.

Imo, Hooters has every right to sponsor PDGA players and help them with their expenses in exchange for wearing the Hooters logo, etc.

What i think is worth questioning is whether Hooters is a good official sponsor of the PDGA Amateur World Championships?



Well, that is not really the question to me. The questions are: Why would Hooters be rejected before even being approached? Who said that Hooters girls would be at the course? Who said they were going to be approached as the official sponsor of the PDGA Amatuer World Championships?



i am not sure anyone said those things would occur -- but those are the doors that Hooters sponsorship might open. as for Hooters girls on the course -- i think someone mentioned they'd like to see a tent at worlds with Hooters Girls in it giving out stuff to eat ;)

so, if they were in the beer garden selling beer and wing, that is capitalism and advertisements. thats what a potential sponsor is looking for otherwise they are just a donater, not a sponsor.What will be the dress code for the women playing at am worlds. have you decided to dictate that?

I am sure the "arguments" and "hoopla"....which i personally think is a legit discussion(and people have handled themselves well in keeping it a discussion) would be taking place on the courses also if it was posted on the course kiosk that Hooters was not allowed to be approached as a sponsor. I don't think dismissing the issue as message board junk is the right thing to do in this case (if that was in fact what you were trying to do). IMO

am worlds is not exclusive to juniors. there are more than 75% over 18 in the am worlds(just a guess) why make this all about junior women now?

Imo, Hooters has every right to sponsor PDGA players and help them with their expenses in exchange for wearing the Hooters logo, etc.

What i think is worth questioning is whether Hooters is a good official sponsor of the PDGA Amateur World Championships?



Well, that is not really the question to me. The questions are: Why would Hooters be rejected before even being approached? Who said that Hooters girls would be at the course? Who said they were going to be approached as the official sponsor of the PDGA Amatuer World Championships?




I can settle this whole argument right here, right now.

The TDSA as a club, chose not to approach Hooters as a sponsor due to the family atmosphere that Am Worlds is trying to project. We might welcome them if it were a Pro event. There are no little jr pro boys and girls running around with their parents.

While we approached about every type of sponsor available and do have an beer sponsor, it was our decision to not approach Hooters or sponsors that project a sexual image due to the fact that women and children will be competing in this event. :cool:

You can argue about our decision til your blue in the face but the PDGA was not part of that decision, it was decided on a local basis.

It appears you are arguing just to argue. The facts are, that Am Worlds decided not to approach Hooters for sponsorship. No one told them not to. How do we know Hooters would have said yes to being a sponsor? Please do not fault the Am Worlds organizers for trying to be PC. I think it is better to fault on the side of trying to acknowledge everyone's potential feelings than to totally ignore the impact.

Who really cares if the Am Worlds will have one less sponsor? It's not a consipiracy by anyone. Lots of decisions will be made by the Am Worlds committee. They all may not be the best decisions, but we will have to trust the organizers to do the best they can.

"The Man" isn't trying to tell anyone what to do. Feathers appear very ruffled over a petty issue that doesn't amount to very much when you view the larger picture.

Well the whole thing got started because someone close (or said they were close) to the situation claimed the PDGA stopped the approach of this company before it ever happened. I have made it clear (i think) that i was speaking in a hypothetical way. Basically I am just curious to other peoples thoughts on "If" that had taken place.

I completely understand their concern over a questionable sponsor for a major. #%$&* would you be arguing for or play in a tournament if it were sponsored by Chippendales?

If you answered yes you are either #%$&* or a woman.

The PDGA simply made a suggestion that we consider the family aspect of the tournamnet.

What would happen if everyone that posted on this discussion about who should and should not be a sponsor sent $50 each themselves to the Tulsa guys to help with the costs?

--------------------
John Chapman --- PDGA Board of Directors
Mr. Chapman's Current Rating: 878
Is it ironic that the Competition Director for the PDGA doesn't have a very competitive rating?



I doubt David Stern can play basketball worth a lick either, what's your point? That somebody who does nothing but dedicate their life to playing disc golf (and zero to organizing/volunteering) would make a better Competition Director.

C'mon Rooster, you're smarter than that...

so, if they were in the beer garden selling beer and wing, that is capitalism and advertisements.



[levity with a slight tint of hypocrisy mode engage]
i am just trying to point out that Hooters girls are a big problem. think of them trying to rip a drive across their chest -- they might knock themselves and get hurt and create a public outcry that disc golf is dangerous for big-chested women. :eek: :p

What would happen if everyone that posted on this discussion about who should and should not be a sponsor sent $50 each themselves to the Tulsa guys to help with the costs?



I know of atleast one person who would then be about $50 in the hole :(

:D

I can't speak for Rooster but I dont think that was the statement he was trying to make with that sig line.

--------------------
John Chapman --- PDGA Board of Directors
Mr. Chapman's Current Rating: 878
Is it ironic that the Competition Director for the PDGA doesn't have a very competitive rating?



I doubt David Stern can play basketball worth a lick either, what's your point? That somebody who does nothing but dedicate their life to playing disc golf (and zero to organizing/volunteering) would make a better Competition Director.



Excellent point and seems to warrant putting the ratings and rankings back up to the side of each post.

As for those who argue they shouldn't take advice from players with lower ratings -- that is wrong-headed too. Plenty of great coaches aren't (or weren't) themselves stellar players -- but they know fundamentals and they know the game and they know how to teach better than most. judge advice on its own merits and on how it works for you -- by the message and not the messenger.

That somebody who does nothing but dedicate their life to playing disc golf (and zero to organizing/volunteering) would make a better Competition Director.



That's all well and good. But that doesn't make him above reproach or criticism, now does it?

The point of the sig line is to criticize Mr. Chapman for what I believe to be whining about having his rating posted. And since his whining won the day, I'm protesting by displaying his ranking for him.

Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards dedicated his life to ski jumping. Doesn't mean he was good at it, though.

While that is a form of protest, a more valid form would be to display your own ratings information since that is what was taken away. You are now just going against his stated wishes that his personal information not be posted on the board for all to see without putting forth the effort of clicking on his ID and PDGA number.

As far as the Hooters or Chippendales argument, I would have no problem attending an event with either or both as sponsors, but I don't really think either are appropriate sponsors for Am Worlds.

Not so much for the facts about what they are, but for the common perceptions of what they are.

No, it doesn't make him above reproach. But what do you hope to accomplish by repeatedly criticizing him on the same point over and over? A rather antagonistic and unproductive effort in my opinion.

Well the whole thing got started because someone close (or said they were close) to the situation claimed the PDGA stopped the approach of this company before it ever happened.


A HA!!!

Whenver there is incomplete or unsubstantiated information posted on this board, it almost always assumed that the PDGA did the worst possible thing they could have, based on that incomplete and unsubstantiated info.

Maybe all the people who were so darn quick to jump down the PDGA's throat on this issue should take a minute to consider that. And maybe they should try to cut the org a little slack actually investigate these kinds of claims in the future before going into attack mode against the organization.

The PDGA is people trying to do the right thing. Save the attacks for when there is a legitimate screw-up.

exactly. and dont worry - it would still probably involve Rhett :D:D:D

I did not attack the PDGA . I thought this was a valid discussion for future reference. I thought I made that clear through this whole discussion. I have been discussing this with full knowledge that it was just "rumor".

.

Why is it that the PDGA won't let "Hooters" sponsor the Am Worlds but they let "Boobs" into the Pro Worlds? :confused: ;)




Well here is where the rumor started, so you can now direct your attacks towards him. ;)

The PDGA simply made a suggestion that we consider the family aspect of the tournamnet.



Ok. Based on your words it was just a suggestion from the PDGA....:confused:....Ok. Maybe that's what I heard.... :(

I guess I'm guilty of spreading a false rumor. :(

Sorry everybody jumped on what I said and so quickly and accused "The Man" of a cover-up. If anybody wants to throw curse words in my direction it's ok. Just send them to me in a PM. :(

WORTH REPEATING:


Well the whole thing got started because someone close (or said they were close) to the situation claimed the PDGA stopped the approach of this company before it ever happened.


A HA!!!

Whenver there is incomplete or unsubstantiated information posted on this board, it almost always assumed that the PDGA did the worst possible thing they could have, based on that incomplete and unsubstantiated info.

Maybe all the people who were so darn quick to jump down the PDGA's throat on this issue should take a minute to consider that. And maybe they should try to cut the org a little slack actually investigate these kinds of claims in the future before going into attack mode against the organization.

The PDGA is people trying to do the right thing. Save the attacks for when there is a legitimate screw-up.

Why don't you get a real signature file, Rooster!!! ;) :D

Team TDSA - great job on planning the family atmosphere for Tulsa PDGA Am Worlds! I can tell by reading your team�s posts that your team is on the ball and the event is going to be well-organized, fun and competitive with your variety of courses! I plan on being there. Anyway, I thought I�d chime in on the Hooters thing.

As part of the leadership team of the 2004 PDGA Pro/Am/Junior Worlds, we encountered this same Hooters/Budwiser Girls sponsorship scenario. And I was pleased with the outcome of our compromise. Hooters did sponsor Iowa Worlds with 500 chicken wings � but they were served offsite.

The maestro of our entertainment, Yeti, started us off the Friday before the event with music at the hotel. And then a week later, the Friday night before the Saturday semis and finals, Yeti organized an offsite party and two bands. It was held at a local bar down the street from the host hotels (House of Bricks) and they offered an all ages show until 9:00 pm. This is where the Hooters chicken wings (sponsorship secured by Yeti) were served and we also had 150 pizzas donated by Papa John�s (sponsorship secured by Jon Latch).

At Worlds, many of the women players and mothers of the juniors asked me if I was upset with this � because the event and Hooters and Papa John�s were listed in the program. I said no because of a couple of reasons. The main ones being that the event was held offsite and there were plenty of other entertainment options in town for families that night. And we had already provided a week�s worth of entertainment. So players had the choice of whether to attend or not.

Now if the Hooters or Budwieser girls were in the host hotel lobby, on the courses, or at the awards ceremony � there are no other choices. Because you�ve already booked your room at the host hotel, you have to play on the courses, and you want to be at the awards ceremony.

A few years ago some gal from Texas who was upset by the Hooters sponsored tournaments there actually had sent an email asking my opinion. And I replied that there are plenty of other tournaments in Texas. She could choose to go to other ones. Now if she lived in a state where there are only a few tournaments a year and they were all sponsored by Hooters � she would have no choice. But in Texas, she could choose from plenty of other tournaments and TDs. And let�s say for example a gal planned to fly out of state for vacation to play in a new tournament (to her) and shows up and Hooters girls were on the courses. She might be upset � because is she had known, she could have chosen to fly to and attend another tournament where these gals weren�t appearing. So if tournament organizers publicize this type of sponsorship ahead of time and what is going on, women could choose not to attend if this offends them and go to other events.

But each year for all the divisions, there is only the one PDGA World championships � so there are no choices for those who find it offensive if this type of sponsorship was in your face! So like in our Iowa situation, if something is held offsite at a local bar, and there were plenty of other options available for families and players to choose to do something else, and plenty of other host club tournament sponsored entertainment options provided ahead of time, then Hooters sponsorship to me personally is okay.

That somebody who does nothing but dedicate their life to playing disc golf (and zero to organizing/volunteering) would make a better Competition Director.



That's all well and good. But that doesn't make him above reproach or criticism, now does it?

The point of the sig line is to criticize Mr. Chapman for what I believe to be whining about having his rating posted. And since his whining won the day, I'm protesting by displaying his ranking for him.

Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards dedicated his life to ski jumping. Doesn't mean he was good at it, though.



Let me get this straight, you are mad at Chappy because he didn�t want his personal info posted on every message he posts to this board and asked that it be removed; so you are going to attack him as being unfit to perform his duties as PDGA Competition Director because his player rating is not high enough in your opinion. Is that right?

Since when does player rating have anything to do with ability to be a first rate disc golf volunteer and organizer?

Did Eddie �The Eagle� Edwards have his volunteer work evaluated on how well he sky jumped?

Come on Robbie, you are, as I said earlier, better than this.

Thanks for weighing in with such a thoughtful, considerate, and vetted reply.

Yes, Thanks for the insight into how it was handled in the past, especially the reasoning behind the decision, and the considerations taken to prevent any unnecessary problems.

I am not faulting anyone. I am responding to post that said the pdga denied tulsa the right to have hooters as a sponsor. That, whether it is true or untrue is no longer the point of the argument. The arguement now is whether the pdga should turn away legit sponsors on the basis that someone might be offended. Hooters is the perfect example. They are a legit company that has sexy uniforms for their waitstaff. They are also an airline company as well as a casino/hotel in vegas. Now to allow an alcohol sponsor and not hooters is just plain idiotic. young women, in my opinion, the majority of them dress slutty already. I do not think the 70's stlye short shorts that hooters girls wear are going to influence any young woman from giving up their low cut hip huggers to wear the goofy looking short shorts. But I do believe that alcohol is already a problem with our youth and a beer sponsor would definatly make a youg person say, " hey instead of buying me beer A I want beer B cause they sponsored worlds. Now having said that, I am not against either sponsor because their influence can be seen on any tv in the world. Whats a banner and logo on some of the paperwork going to do?

I am still looking to find out the ages of players at am worlds. How many minors under 18 and how many adults over 18. Maybe their should be a junior worlds and an am worlds. I see that as a good compromise that will not hold the sport back like what is happening now. Am worlds could have ANY business as a sponsor and junior worlds could have well maybe NERDS or SWEETTARTS sponsor them. Maybe their should be a lpdga and the pdga just like in golf. That would end most of the problems with getting sponsors that do not offend people.

So far, the Junior Worlds was not successful when it was tried a few years ago. It works being combined with the Am Worlds because many families have one or both parents who play along with the juniors.

young women, in my opinion, the majority of them dress slutty already.



Wow.....And here I thought I started a big discussion. :o

I feel a tidal wave coming your way. ;)

It was just a typo. He meant "sultry." Okay that's a stretch.

Agreed that turning down sponsors does not further our sport. By accepting Hooters and alcohol sponsors we express the relaxed attitude that most of us have. If you don't drink beer that's perfectly fine, although we have considered stroking all non-drinkers two strokes a round. Actually, a big drunk suggested it once and we dismissed him with requisite ridicule, but it's nice to know that somewhere that spirit lives on.

I think not allowing said sponsors is a bad idea. The PDGA powers that be are living up to their goofball reputation with that imposition. And out of nowhere. The PDGA could be so cool. They could stop fretting about liability (by making the TD liable and responsible for everything), and leave policing to the police. We'd have a grand whopping time but nooooooooooo. We have to uphold an image we don't have. We seek to yuppify the upper echelon of the sport because...because? How dumb. How incredibly dumb. Allow Hooters and Budweiser and every other beer company. Why not? Duh. It's not right that personal peeves worm their way into the rules. Be magnanimous and inclusive. Be kind. Be forgiving. Stop being goofballs.

That foot of yours must be riddled with shot by now... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

How about some rum spiked pies for that competition? Yummm, Yrummm...

WORTH REPEATING AGAIN:


Well the whole thing got started because someone close (or said they were close) to the situation claimed the PDGA stopped the approach of this company before it ever happened.


A HA!!!

Whenver there is incomplete or unsubstantiated information posted on this board, it almost always assumed that the PDGA did the worst possible thing they could have, based on that incomplete and unsubstantiated info.

Maybe all the people who were so darn quick to jump down the PDGA's throat on this issue should take a minute to consider that. And maybe they should try to cut the org a little slack actually investigate these kinds of claims in the future before going into attack mode against the organization.

The PDGA is people trying to do the right thing. Save the attacks for when there is a legitimate screw-up.

Jason, you should ban yourself from posting after you've had more than one beer.

Would that be a lifetime ban? :D:p ;)

I heard somewhere that the roots of NASCAR got started with a bunch of bootleggers driving for fun. No wonder none of their fans have any teeth :o....j/k

If DG were originally hidden behind fences like ball golf is would the general public have the preconceived image that it does now?....

Do most members want to change that and if so, to what extent? :confused:...Are we going to end up so PC that we'll never move past what the public perception of PC should be?

Somedays I wish we could.

I think the leaders of the PDGA are doing the best with what they have to work with but sometimes I worry if they're trying to portray our sport like Pepe' la-pew when in fact we may be more like the Flintstones. :confused: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The PDGA is people trying to do the right thing. Save the attacks for when there is a legitimate screw-up.



right, like when they over-reacted &amp; forced Pat to remove the cool rankings and ratings info he had whipped up for us.
(instead of letting them stand until something more official and committee-stamped becomes available)
the subtle hint to not entertain thought of a Hooters sponsorship for Amateur Worlds was more of a 'no-brainer' :p

WORTH REPEATING AGAIN:

[QUOTE]
Well the whole thing got started because someone close (or said they were close) to the situation claimed the PDGA stopped the approach of this company before it ever happened.


A HA!!!

Whenver there is incomplete or unsubstantiated information posted on this board, it almost always assumed that the PDGA did the worst possible thing they could have, based on that incomplete and unsubstantiated info.

Maybe all the people who were so darn quick to jump down the PDGA's throat on this issue should take a minute to consider that. And maybe they should try to cut the org a little slack actually investigate these kinds of claims in the future before going into attack mode against the organization.

The PDGA is people trying to do the right thing. Save the attacks for when there is a legitimate screw-up.



If I thought you could handle it on your own......I wouldn't be offering alternatives....... :cool:

I figured that was the reason for tying the two together. I am still wondering how many juniors compete? Having complete info on the size of worlds and the player % of divisons will help shape a lot of people shape their opinions. Also, knowing what a major sponsor like the one in question expects for their support. As time goes on and more business owners like myself become competitive in the sport, the way the PDGA is viewed will shift a little. More players will focus on fiscal responsibilities, efficeincy of the org., true benefits for members and clubs alike, and marketing stratagies for the promotion of the sport. Things like planning majors around pga events to coincide in the same cities(could lead to free publicity). Minor things like that will help to push the sport more into mainstream. I can't wait to be watching sports center and see an innova commercial! Discussions like this will help the evolution of the pdga. So keep up the complaining, moaning and groaning. The next generation of the bod is listening and when they come to sit in the seats of power, you will see changes start to come.

I am still wondering how many juniors compete?


www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4646#Junior (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4646#Junior) < 19 Girls

Just a thought on the Am Worlds format (i have never attended an Am worlds so I am not even sure how the format is)...

Would it not be better to have the Junior World Championships held the 2 or 3 days prior to the start of Am Worlds? I would think it would better showcase the Juniors that way. You would have a bunch more spectators (the older Am worlds crowd including the parents that are competing). It would also give the Juniors the option of playing Am Worlds just after they finish the Junior Worlds. I am thinking that the Juniors wouldnt get so "lost in the mix" if they were seperated alittle better like that. Just a thought.

If you had a 12 year old daughter, a 13 year old son, and a 17 year old daughter all who were good players and accompanying you -- and you intended to compete in the AM Worlds competition too -- what arrangement would be more user-friendly for your family? Consider room and board, time off work, etc. ;)

And if you were the event staff -- would more days of competition entail more or less logistical challenge?

I am still wondering how many juniors compete?



Think about how many of the future PDGA players are young enough to qualify for age-protected junior divisions. All of them :p

They (and their friends and acquaintances and peers they have yet to meet) are our future, so it makes sense to consider what is appropriate for them -- even if they only are a small minority of the total AM Worlds field.

I am a single father and my daughter likes DG and I could be faced with format issues in the not so distance future. So I am fully considering the things you stated.

If memory serves me correct I beleive feild events and mixed events make up the begining of the week which is the 2-3 days prior to the start of the Am Worlds competition i was reffering to. It sure beats the cost of having a seperate Junior worlds somewhere else in the country when the numbers grow enough. This way you could showcase the Juniors in a better way while not increasing the financial burden too much for those families with players in both.

When i was thinking about it, a bunch of positives came to mind and not so many negatives so I thought I would put it out there.

It's also true that those that can normally show up to the world's venue as much as a week in advance to practice the courses. At least 2-3 days.

Moving the juniors to early in the week hurts their practice time though.

Having children to begin with hurts practice time :)

I just checked the #s. 19 and under girls has a non existant showing,advanced women had about a 3rd of what adv men has. But the #'s show me that we are sacrificing all the other ams to please the 4 or 5 "family" participants. There are a lot of things that could be done differently that would make it easier for me or other players in our club to attend worlds. But then again we the adults over 18 are the ones that keep the pdga running strong and what do we matter. They know they have our memberships locked in because we are the competitive ones. if the pdga had to depend on juniors and women it would be in serious trouble. So why all the catering to a demographic that has shown not to be too interseted in the sport? I am just looking at #s not ideology. I want more women and kids to play but what has been done so far dosen't seem to have made an impact on the numbers of members in these demographics. Seems like we should really try to cater to the am men which seem to have the most growth potential. My wife dosen't play in tournies but will go throw with me sometimes. If it weren't for my involvement in dg she would have never tried it on her own. I am not saying this about all women but feel confident saying it about most. It seems to me that our resources should be used in the am mens, to promote the sport to men ages 16-34. It appears to me that getting more men in this age group will help bring in women and eventually juniors (the kids of these players). So go ahead, pick this post apart, take quotes out of context whatever you want to do to argue against the facts, but the #s don't lie. If it weren't for am mens, the pdga would not be what it is, and its am men that will push the sport further and further mainstream so that the sport will be recognized and have credibility in the real world. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Pro men also make a big impact but I wanted to stick with the ams for my arguement. :D

Back on topic: I came across this on another forum and thought that it might be useful here-


<font color="blue"> Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below.

Although the administrators and moderators of PDGA.com will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author. PDGA.com will not be held responsible for the content of any message.

PDGA.com retains the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

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* There is no advertising allowed in the forums. If you are interested in advertising you can email ads@PDGA.com.
* Do not expect DISCussion members to do your homework - you will learn much more by doing it yourself.
* While almost every question does get an answer, we cannot guarantee a response. If your thread does not receive any responses, it will automatically be bumped twice.
* Posts containing information about or involving cracking, piracy, warez, fraud or any topic that could be damaging to either PDGA.com or any third party will be immediately removed.
* All posts should be in English. This allows our moderators to spot potentially malicious material.
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By becoming a member you agreed to adhere to these guidelines. These guidelines are subject to change and a current version is always available in the forums. If you come across any violations to these guidelines or have any problems navigating the site, do not hesitate to let us know via email or the forums. </font>



The forum I got this from deals with about 800 users at a time and has over 10,000 registered users.

Why does PDGA.com have so much authority over the postings on that forum you pulled that from ;)

* All posts should be in English. This allows our moderators to spot potentially malicious material.



It fits right in with the PDGA rules. It's not mandotory but it'd be nice if you did it. ;)

That foot of yours must be riddled with shot by now... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

How about some rum spiked pies for that competition? Yummm, Yrummm...



Yeah, okay okay. Woke up in the middle of the night with that familiar "uh oh" feeling. I don't believe the PDGA turned down any sponsors, and I read a little backwards and discovered that's at least half true. My apologies. I will learn to temper my outbursts.

Not sure what your argument is. 1/6th of the participants at 2005 Am Worlds were juniors.

This is troll bait, right?

* All posts should be in English. This allows our moderators to spot potentially malicious material.



It fits right in with the PDGA rules. It's not mandotory but it'd be nice if you did it. ;)



If you only knew how much trouble should and shall caused us when we were doing the German translation of the rules! :confused:

<font color="blue">* All posts should be in English. This allows our moderators to spot potentially malicious material.


<font color="black">
Does this mean that two German-speaking members or two Swedish-speaking members should speak to each other in a foreign language if they choose to use the board to communicate?

Vielleicht sollten unsere Moderatoren beendigen, typische Amerikaner zu sein und eine andere Sprache lernen.

Good question. Did neon Nick ever give the source of his quote?

I would think that as long as you did not swear and weren't abusive -- there should be no restrictions on what language you speak. If you want to get technical and geographic about it -- i suppose everyone in Georgia [the USA state -- not the one in Russia] should speak Cherokee :p

Good question. Did neon Nick ever give the source of his quote?

I would think that as long as you did not swear and weren't abusive -- there should be no restrictions on what language you speak. If you want to get technical and geographic about it -- i suppose everyone in Georgia [the USA state -- not the one in Russia] should speak Cherokee :p



Tsalagi

Tsalagi



that's what i'm talking about! :D

http://www.rootsweb.com/~itcherok/images/chseal.gif

Good question. Did neon Nick ever give the source of his quote?

I would think that as long as you did not swear and weren't abusive -- there should be no restrictions on what language you speak. If you want to get technical and geographic about it -- i suppose everyone in Georgia [the USA state -- not the one in Russia] should speak Cherokee :p



* All posts should be in English. This allows our moderators to spot potentially malicious material.

I think the context is important here, and I am just sharing what I found at a much larger, well used and civil forum. I have nothing against other languages. Bokku wa nihongo shaberu yo! And I'm not suggesting we use all of these rules, just that some may be useful in defusing the animosity that seems to be in full bloom these days here as folks assume the worst (ie this very example) of other users.

<font color="blue">* All posts should be in English. This allows our moderators to spot potentially malicious material.


<font color="black">
Does this mean that two German-speaking members or two Swedish-speaking members should speak to each other in a foreign language if they choose to use the board to communicate?

Vielleicht sollten unsere Moderatoren beendigen, typische Amerikaner zu sein und eine andere Sprache lernen.



Dan, i think <font color="blue"> ^that ^ </font> was just Nick posting something he hadn't cleared with any PDGA Committee or officials. :eek:

Rob, you should go work for the Bush press department of misinformation.


Back on topic: I came across this on another forum and thought that it might be useful here-
,,,
The forum I got this from deals with about 800 users at a time and has over 10,000 registered users.




Slightly different from making an ad hoc code change to our message board, isn't it?

Rob, you should go work for the Bush press department of misinformation.



Nick, that is slander and i would ask for an apology if i didn't consider the source. Instead i will quote Pat's earlier response to another personal attack you intiated:

i will not be drawn into a personal confrontation with you, nick , on what has been so far a meaningful and on-topic discussion.

personal attacks and off-topic comments ARE, according to Rhett's policies, grounds for being banned.


I came across this on another forum and thought that it might be useful here-
,,,
The forum I got this from deals with about 800 users at a time and has over 10,000 registered users.
,,,

Slightly different from making an ad hoc code change to our message board, isn't it?



You are missing the point. your post included the following:

<font color="blue"> * All posts should be in English. This allows our moderators to spot potentially malicious material.
* PDGA.com cannot be held liable for anything you do as a result of information obtained at this site.</font>

what other forum was this and since it repeatedly refers to itself as pdga.com -- don't you see why by your logic it was inappropriate for you to post it here if you didn't obtain prior approval to do so? :confused:

Rob, I posted those rules as food for thought. I changed the names from that forum to ours just so it would make a little more sense. You acting like I have something against languages other than English is pure unadulterated misinformation. Even within the quote it justs asks folks to use English so that monitors can make sure nothing objectionable goes on; not because English is a superior language or that Nick Kight thinks non-English is unacceptable.

LOL!

Come on, folks. Trying to make out as though by sharing that language from another forum Nick revealed some biased part of his personality makes zero sense. He found some interesting language, changed the association name in it to PDGA, and shared it for DISCussion.

Discussing that line about languages makes sense. Turning that line into a critism of Nick is a waste of time, not to mention disingenuous.

Nick, my suggestion is that you do not respond to any postings on that topic from here on out. Let the unfair critism die out.

Rob, I posted those rules as food for thought. I changed the names from that forum to ours just so it would make a little more sense. You acting like I have something against languages other than English is pure unadulterated misinformation. Even within the quote it justs asks folks to use English so that monitors can make sure nothing objectionable goes on; not because English is a superior language or that Nick Kight thinks non-English is unacceptable. LOL!



Thanks for posting that important, though late, disclaimer. I wasn't so much concerned about you being an english-only proponent -- but more so about those in America who subscribe to that england-centric view, as well as those who might misconstrue the meaning or source of what you quoted. re-read what i said above and you'll see that i didn't attack you at all.

Nick's source was http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/rules.html
or they both draw from a common source.

These rules would work also:
<font color="blue">Remember: you are in a public forum, talking to your fellow disc golfers. Behave accordingly. Disagreements are fine; personal attacks are not. This DISCussion board is first a foremost a PDGA resource for PDGA members.
The basic rule of thumb for posting here is this: Don't post anything that you might get warned or stroked about during competitive, santioned PDGA play. In other words, the courtesy rules apply here as well as during a PDGA event. Another basic rule of thumb is that on the Internet you need to be twice as nice on line to have any chance at all of people knowing, from your postings, that you are as nice as you are in person.

This PDGA-sponsored board does not guarantee freedom of speech. Messages containing profanity, inflammatory comments, or other offensive content may be removed at the discretion of the board monitors. Individuals who persist in this behavior may be barred from future posting.

Respect others' time and energy. If a posting would be better served by direct email to the author, contact them directly. Commercial posts are not allowed and will be removed. If you would like to carry on a conversation, please use the chat room.

The PDGA does not officially monitor the message board. For questions directed to the PDGA office, the PDGA Board of Directors, or a PDGA committee, use the the "Contact" link from the main menu on PDGA pages. While PDGA representatives may post on the board from time to time, they are posting as individuals, and their opinions as expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the PDGA.

This forum is provided by the PDGA for the use and enjoyment of disc golfers. If you have complaints about any content on the board, please use the feedback form and let us know.


</font>

I think discussions on the message board, whether they are rumor mill stuff or actual defined policy is helpful to members. It helps to define the borders of the policies so that all members understand. It also allows members to express thir concerns on policies. If you must get permission to write about anything concerning the pdga (rumor?) then that is a form of censorship that is intolerant and unproductive. You might as well make the forums members only, no one who is not a member may even view the pages and then let the members say whatever the bleeping-#$*&$!-#$*&$! they want to say and the elite volunteer board can respond with whatever they have to say to clairify their position. Then potential members will not be able to see how disorganized and unclear a lot of the policies of the organizaton are and we the MEMBERS will be able to voice our opinions and opposition without fear of running potential members off. Now that I tried to respond to an earlier post that has now been deleted, this post may not make the sense it would have, but it is being posted anyway because it still has some relevance. :D

I typed in bleeping-#$*&$!-#$*&$! and it changed my post to other characters. Is #$*&$! a banned word? :confused:

Bleepe minus the last e gets altered in the forum when you submit. Wow I did not know that. Is bleepe minus the last e a curse word in some foreign language. Calling on all cunning linguist out there, search your spanish to english dictionaries as well as finnish, german, japaneese and whatever else to find out whats up! :D

Rhett has posted somewhere that to get the #$*&$! for effect, type b-l-e-e-p.

I typed in bleeping-#$*&amp;$!-#$*&amp;$! and it changed my post to other characters. Is #$*&amp;$! a banned word? :confused:



type a space between each character and if you get banned for it then take your lumps mister :eek: :D :D

I was just informed on the b l e e p to characters change that occurs when submitted. The policy book for the message board must be as thick as the phonebook. (If there is any such literature) :o:D:D :D:o

Since the auto-censor does not show up in the message preview, it was a simple way for a poster to know they would get the #$*&$! effect without concern that the offensive word they intended would somehow make it past the auto-censor and show up in the post.

I was just informed on the b l e e p to characters change that occurs when submitted. The policy book for the message board must be as thick as the phonebook. (If there is any such literature) :D:D :D:o



when in doubt (about policy), you could always try PMing Nick first for advice and consent. He might be able to ensure you don't create what he refers to as a "royal fup" :o/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

That was a regrettable choice of partial wording I admit.

Pat has forgiven me for it. He knows I value what he does for the PDGA. I just wish some things had not been said here at all, on either side, in the first place.

All I can do is do my best to not be a part of future stuff like that and hope the rest of us do likewise.

Post deleted by EF_BOMBER

I'm sorry Efrain I don't get what you are talking about. Are you saying they are censoring posts at Grurion's website? That they don�t ensure free speech there? Or are you talking about here, where free speech has been explicitly not guaranteed and monitors have publicly stated that they will do their best to keep nastiness off the boards?

Rhett, has anyone been banned since your birthday?

tiger woods cusses at the camera all the time
do you see nike or buick pulling his sponsorship?
you ever gone to an NBA game and heard the players courtside jawing at each other? How bout Jack Nicholson or Spike Lee?
you ever read the lips of NFL head coaches when they're upset?

come on people, cussing is part of the english language now, you need to deal with it just like others deal with; smokers, SUVs, slobs, socialites, overpriced real estate, people who can't jump putt properly, BOD opinions, and people who don't clean up after their dogs! It's called LIFE and you're part of it.

If you censor me, YOU'RE the one who's ingorant (sorry pizza dog, had to do it)

"I wish I could edit other people's posts..."

Nobody says you can't do it verbally just like your other sports examples where it's gone in a second. It may not be a good thing but is preferable to putting it in writing here where it lingers long past the reason it was done.

good point Chuck.
I was thinking of putting inside the circle and the sounds of
many curse words resonating as the plastic hits the
cage and bounces out.
That will never stop, nor should it.

I'm not a big fan of cussing on forums as many people are offended,but once you tell somebody they can't do it, beware!

don't forget that some of those profestional players get fined for cussing. Some of the Major teams fine there players for public outbursts. Some of the coaches get fined too.

And If anyone cusses on the radio, they will be fined by the federal government. (just ask Howard Stern)

It is a good thing we can't get fined for spelling and/or grammatical errors.

lmao!!! :D

whats a $15000 fine when you are paid millions? So If pro dger cusses, he's fined $.25? sounds about proportionate. Ive got a jar at home I have to put a quarter in everytime I let one slip and the wife or kids catch me. I just got off a 50 million dollar project where the superintindent, the man in charge cussed like a drunkin sailor. I guess it all depends on your profession. Cussing is vulger when used all the time but at some points, its the only way to project how serious you are. Time and place. A public forum is really neither but then again a #$*&$! here and there may project the posters seriousness.

What we need are specially designed emoticons that are specific for each cuss word. :mad::p :confused: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<font color="red"> [Graphics edited out by Terry Calhoun: Folks, I plan to invite our "lost" DISCussion members and also the many who've never come here, to join in next week - via the newsletter - now that things are in better shape. I find these animated GIFs to be as amusing as anyone else does, but they're not "new user friendly."

If you want there to be many more people in here to engage with, please tone down this kind of thing. Just imagine having thousands more PDGA members who will read what you have to say about things like elections and constitutions!]
</font>

nice!!

***BANNED FROM #$*&$!***



Thanks for the chuckle.

dumb

Perhaps, but sometimes dumb can be funny. It seems to be the major source of funny here come to think of it...

The "tone" on this thread is one thing. Check out the "whats in your bag" thread if you want to have some fun tone. Enter this thread and youve crossed to the dark side. I don't think toning down a thread like this is what we need to do because the discussions and soem opinions have really helped shape in my mind what needs to be done inside the pdga and what direction is needed for the future. Most "newbies" would not even check out a thread like this and if they did they probably would not post.
PS I am back home and already miss the mountains. ( no internet, no cell phone service, etc....)

***BANNED FROM #$*&$!***



Thanks for the chuckle.



right, i was not the only one!! Matt Hall of all people was banned!!

And I still haven't figured why either of you were....

And I still haven't figured why either of you were....

primarily for exposing Grunion and mini Grunion's hipocrisy and anti-pdga sentiment etc etc. :D

And I still haven't figured why either of you were....

primarily for exposing Grunion and mini Grunion's hipocrisy and anti-pdga sentiment etc etc. :D



Unbelieveable! You mean that they are acting just like they thought the powers-that-be here were? Never saw that coming.... :eek: :o;) :D

And I still haven't figured why either of you were....

primarily for exposing Grunion and mini Grunion's hipocrisy and anti-pdga sentiment etc etc. :D



Unbelieveable! You mean that they are acting just like they thought the powers-that-be here were? Never saw that coming.... :eek: :o;) :D



actually worse!! you can cuss all you want , just do not disagree with them!! :p

when the board was first up, I had a few posts deleted and was banned for saying the exact same thing.

I have not been over to the dark side in several months. Last time I was there, there was nothing going on. Boring.

Hey, this thread is titled "Cleaning up DISCussion", not "cleaning up #$*&$!". :D

Rhett, has anyone been banned since your birthday?


We could talk about this.

Jason was banned for personal attacks against PDGA employees.

His post was pretty out-there, as anyone who read it would have to agree.

when the board was first up, I had a few posts deleted and was banned for saying the exact same thing.

I have not been over to the dark side in several months. Last time I was there, there was nothing going on. Boring.



thats funny :Dand true,the dark side is boring

Hey, this thread is titled "Cleaning up DISCussion",not "cleaning up #$*&$!"



I for one am glad that something is being done about cleaning up the discussion board. I stop reading the discussion board for awhile because all it was,was smack talk and one guy trashing another.At least now alls anybody complaining about it the PDGA :D

Again, I'd like to thank Rhett for doing such a great job with this DISCussion board. I wish it had been Members Only when I was doing it. Still, there's no denying how improved the board has become.

tiger woods cusses at the camera all the time
do you see nike or buick pulling his sponsorship?
you ever gone to an NBA game and heard the players courtside jawing at each other? How bout Jack Nicholson or Spike Lee?
you ever read the lips of NFL head coaches when they're upset?

come on people, cussing is part of the english language now, you need to deal with it just like others deal with; smokers, SUVs, slobs, socialites, overpriced real estate, people who can't jump putt properly, BOD opinions, and people who don't clean up after their dogs! It's called LIFE and you're part of it.

If you censor me, YOU'RE the one who's ingorant (sorry pizza dog, had to do it)

"I wish I could edit other people's posts..."



You are exactly right, Man. It's all part of the devolution of humankind. Some will attempt to slow the process, but it seems inevitable. I'm just banking on being dead before it gets intolerable

Q: Are we not men?
A: We are DEVO

Appropriate news story. (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3753767.html)

:)

Why was Nick banned?

Why was Nick banned?



Nick who and when?

It's all on the PDGA Reformation thread.

Why was Nick banned?



Nick called someone an 'idiot' and was banned for a day. While that incident in itself is not so much a travesty, he has been warned several times recently to abstain from inflammatory comments and personal attacks. He is a person with a pattern ingrained over the past several years that has caused long running altercations and long running ill-tempered dialogs with many message board users. The moderators have made it clear that individuals who persist in this behavior may be barred from future posting.

I noticed that symbol picture is now removed. so I guess symbolism is just as bad as the literal and will get you banned.

I guess we can't even NOT say anything.
Bad call to remove Lou's poignant post.

Nick's banishment was petty and done for reasons other than the content of his post. I was far less eloquent in my deleted post but the sentiment remains the same.

I would think Nick's ban was more for a pattern of posting than any one post. As far as pictures of banned words, how is that different from misspelling them to bypass the filter ?

I would much prefer to read the word over having to look at the picture of it. :mad::D

Nick's banishment was petty and done for reasons other than the content of his post. I was far less eloquent in my deleted post but the sentiment remains the same.


I think the truth lies somewhere in between what you say above and "it was 100% deserved."

I have tried to limit the bans I hand out (I didn't ban Nick) to clear-cut and undefendable abuses. I wholeheartedly support your right to disagree with the goings on that are going on here. Please continue to voice your opinions without graphic language or pictures. :)

was lou banned??

was lou banned??


Not that I know of. I did clean up after his cow, though.

I don't feel banned.

Trust me , ya gotta watch what you say. I have received over 100+ PM's about stuff that touched some nerves.
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

So how did Nick disappear for the day? Did he get banned in the manner he claims he was banned (by someone using your name)?

Nick has misrepresented the situation.

I posted a post stating that I agreed with what Jeff was complaining about when Jeff called for Nick to be banned, but I didn't think it was ban-worthy and I did not ban Nick. But I did write that I agreed that Nick was out of line.

Pat Sandalman, who has previously stated that he would never moderate the forums, then chose to exercise the Admin powers of his message board account and ban Nick for 24 hours. (Nick thinks it was more than 24 hours because he is counting from when his last post was made, whereas Pat was counting from when he initiated the ban.)

I chose not to do anything because I am biased against Nick from all the times I have gone round and round with him on here. I do not believe I can make a good call in such a borderline situation. If I were to rescind the ban, I would probably be guilty of trying too hard not to be biased.

When the ban was lifted by Pat, Nick immediately posted how Pat banned him under my name. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. I tried to stay out of it, but Nick keeps dragging me back in.

This discussion should be focused on Pat and Nick, not me.

Nick has misrepresented the situation.



A) I misrepresented nothing. No one need take your or my word for it, it is all right there in that thread. The only thing, apparently even you don't know is that Pat used your name in the message that took away my posting priveleges for the day.

B) I was banned because Pat took offense at a very mild post and did something he said he would neither do nor had the mandate to do; moderate this board. How can anyone now discuss anything with him in good faith when he has clearly broken that trust.

C) You're posts, using your official admin username, voicing your very personal and petty feelings towards me was without any doubt or reservation inappropriate.

D) Though I'd appreciate an apology from you both, I suspect that would be asking too much and so I just flat out forgive you both and want us to move on.

E) Don't answer anymore of these posts here on the board, if you have something to say to me or another user PM them. Otherwise you are just perpetuating the situation in some pointless attempt to sway public opinion.

F) I have not personally attacked anyone here for a very long time, and even though provoked time and again continue to not return fire. Now if you consider my resolution and commitment to issues I think important a personal attack then that is on you, not me.

G) The only comments I will ever speak out against are ones that attack the good work of folks helping to build our sport. If you stick to the topic and argue your position without disparaging others you should have nothing to worry about from me.

Finally) To this end I wish folks would just leave Rhett alone about this and let him continue his work. It is a job very few of us could do as well as he is doing. If he learns from this, then that is all that I can hope for. Pat too.

to be clear:

as a board admin, i DO have a mandate to moderate the board. i have refused to exercise that mandate until yesterday. there were several complaints about the post that lead to the banishment.

i NEVER used Rhetts name. there might be some sort of message that is sent out to the bannee - i dont know, i have never been banned (yet). that message might have Rhetts name in it, i honestly dont know.

when the only thing a post says is "you are an idiot" or something to that effect, then you have attacked and idsparaged that person needlessly. it would/could be a courtesy violation if uttered during a sanctioned round. unless there are plenty of smileys and the people involved are obviously playing or are engaging in friendly banter on a minor thread.

it would be cool to get an apology from Nick for calling me an idiot, but i dont really expect one, so i dont truly care. life goes on.

i hope Nick learns from this.

i will continue to support Rhett in his efforts to clean up the board by maintaining more of an active moderator role.

It's kind of interesting how stress and needless-drama free the message board was while Nick was on hiatus.

Oh yeah...


E) Nick, don't answer any more of these. If you have something else to say on this topic, don't say it. Otherwise you are just perpetuating the situation in some pointless attempt to sway public opinion.

dont forget airing your greivance on a public forum and ending it with a request that all replies be by PM. :D thats my favoritest!!! :D

It's kind of interesting how stress and needless-drama free the message board was while Nick was on hiatus.

Oh yeah...


E) Nick, don't answer any more of these. If you have something else to say on this topic, don't say it. Otherwise you are just perpetuating the situation in some pointless attempt to sway public opinion.



What stopped you from using your admin user for that Rhett?

Nick,

I figured that the 24 hour ban would give you some time to read what you have written, reflect on it, and realize that you are the most pretentious person on this board.

Unfortunately, it seems that you will never learn something about yourself, despite being as egocentric as a three year old. Please reply, I'd love to hear your irrational response.

For the sake of harmony on the PDGA DISCussion board, I am seriously thinking about banning Nick, sandalman, and Rhett_in_SoCal for a couple of days.

Those guys don't seem like they can get along, or stay away from each other. :mad:

thats not really necessary, imo. nick expressed his feelings afterwards, and nothing wrong with that. no one has been calling anyone names since then, so no real problem exists.

I try not to call people names but sometimes I call their ideas names. Is that allowed? Toeing the line? Across the line? Usually I try not to call ideas names either because you never know when you might meet one of those ideas in some dark alley in the Platonic realm of Absolutes.

I try not to call people names but sometimes I call their ideas names. Is that allowed? Toeing the line? Across the line? Usually I try not to call ideas names either because you never know when you might meet one of those ideas in some dark alley in the Platonic realm of Absolutes.



don't think that i can't see thru all that fancy lawyer talk or that i'm not aware that you just took a cheap shot at me Bruce /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :p :D

i think its ok to call ideas names. but if you hurt the ideas feelings or it files a complaint then you might be risking a ban. it also depends on the name. for example, if you call an idea "sweetie pie" you should have nothing to worry about. unless its a big insecure he-man of an idea... then by all means, avoid that dark alley! :D

rob, you just called Bruce "fancy". well, at least his talk. and i've seen his rates. - that was NOT a cheap shot. that sucker cost at least $150.

Pat,
You haven't even been elected yet and already you've become "The Man." You let your personal opinion of Nick sway your judgement and abused your authority when you banned him. If your real concern was needless attacking and disparaging, then you would've made Jeff stop the madness long ago.

The Lung shouldn't be banned either but he is a good example of the badgering that can take place here.

unless you are my psychiatrist it is difficult for you to judge my motives. or my personal opinion of Nick for that matter. suffice it to say that i got at least three complaints about that post and several of his preceding posts, and that is more than enough to warrant a one-day ban under Rhett's guidelines.

Jeff does badger. but so far no one has complained, at least to me.

being elected has nothing to do with it. one is not elected to be a board admin. one volunteers. i did that quite some time ago. volunteering as a board admin is an action that is also open to you. Rhett is easily contacted, and would most likely welcome an additional admin.

For the sake of harmony on the PDGA DISCussion board, I am seriously thinking about banning Nick, sandalman, and Rhett_in_SoCal for a couple of days.

Those guys don't seem like they can get along, or stay away from each other. :mad:



Did you or Pat say something? I didn't get any PMs.

It doesn't take a pychiatrist to read the disdain in your responses to Nick's posts but I'm glad you're seeing someone.

Let me make sure I understand your rules of moderation.
berating + complaints = bannishment
berating + no complaints = acceptable

Is that right?

thats one of the troubles with moderating... so many posts, so little time. so unless its blatant AND you stumble across it, complaints it may go unnoticed. complaints sent via PM always get read, so at a fundamental level, yes, your equations are just about correct.

more volunteer admins would help. PM rhett and he will set you up.

It doesn't take a pychiatrist to read the disdain in your responses to Nick's posts but I'm glad you're seeing someone.

Let me make sure I understand your rules of moderation.
berating + complaints = bannishment
berating + no complaints = acceptable

Is that right?



I'll agree that there is disdain in the responses from Pat, Rhett, Dave Vincent, myself, etc. We are an outspoken few of what is large group of people that have tired of Nick's behavior both on the message board and in real life over the years. I've talked to enough people out on the course during casual rounds and informal monthlies, as well as at PDGA National Tour and Major tournaments to confirm this.

However, as moderators, Rhett and Pat are doing the best they can to be as unbiased as possible. I would characterize their moderation policies as:
<ul type="square"> berating + no complaints = acceptable

Inflammatory comments, personal attacks, intentionally derailing/sabatoging discussion, and a pattern ingrained over the past several years that has caused long running altercations and long running ill-tempered dialogs with many message board users + complaints = bannishment [/list]

....an aside for Rhett. Is the loss of numerous pages of the Yadkinville, NC course thread due to misbehavior or the more benign message board crash? Danke.

I deleted a bunch of posts yesterday that had the double-dollar-sign spelling of donkey in them. Some of them pulled down up to 96 posts when the replies went sailing off with them.

........in the immortal/mortal words of Curt Cobain, "Nevermind". Just stumbled across your entry on Deleted Posts/Misc threads. The dreaded three letter derriere equivalent. What a shame. Lost a lot of semi literate banter not to mention much planning for a Match Play Challenge. But as luck would have it Brad has a photogenic memory. Now.........what were we talking about?

I appreciate the invite but I know I'd be a terrible moderator. I just don't get offended easily enough and would most likely just let things slide. I'm liable to find a post of a bull and excrement amusing. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Pat,
You haven't even been elected yet and already you've become "The Man." You let your personal opinion of Nick sway your judgement and abused your authority when you banned him.




The only comments I will ever speak out against are ones that attack the good work of folks helping to build our sport.



I dig juxtaposition. It's my favorite.

I appreciate the invite but I know I'd be a terrible moderator. I just don't get offended easily enough and would most likely just let things slide. I'm liable to find a post of a bull and excrement amusing. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



I feel you would be an excellent mod. lou!! :D

RD, thank$$ for finding the an$$wer to our concern$$. You are far le$$ of a $$donkey$$ than I previou$$ly thought!

I think (though Rhett hasn't shown the stones to reply yet) that Rhett is responsible for killing the Tulsa Disc Sports Association thread.

We are hosting 06 Am Worlds and it is our primary communication device.....

....Thanks Rhett!

Obviously he can't punish the individual so he has to punish the whole group. :(.....It's kind of like when your dad passes gas,.....not only do you slap him, but you slap the mom, and the kids just for being in the room. :confused:

Maybe everyone that was planning on coming to Am Worlds should just stay home? We're all evil here in Oklahoma and we don't want any of you to pick up any bad habits. ;)

Folks, I can't speak for Rhett, but when Iook in the "disappeared" threads section I can't find that thread located there. However, the Am Worlds thread seems to be where it should be?

The most recently deleted thread is one called " For Rhatt's reading," and since it's obvious from the 6 posts in it that the intent of the thread is to personally attack and criticize Rhett, I can certainly understand why it was disappeared.

I think (though Rhett hasn't shown the stones to reply yet) that Rhett is responsible for killing the Tulsa Disc Sports Association thread.

We are hosting 06 Am Worlds and it is our primary communication device.....

....Thanks Rhett!



Well that #$*&amp;$! bites!! There was aton of useful information there.. There were many people they relied on all the relevant info that existed there..

Terry,

It's not really about deleted threads. He's welcome to delete anything he wants as far as I'm concerned. It's the fact that he goes in and prevents everyone from posting there. I guess my problem is why not punish the individuals first before you start punishing the whole group? It seemed at one time you guys had the power to do that. :confused: If state coordinators like Tom Pitchford and Kevin McCoy want bend the rules then GO GET THEM..

I know Rhett has a thankless job and he means well but I just think his last call to punish everyone was out of line. :confused:...

Well, I do not understand what he did, then. Is it that no one can post there now? I didn't know we could do that :)

And I just went and tested both. I could post. Maybe 'cause I am an admin?

Yea. That is exactly what he did. Nobody got banned and most all the threads are there but nobody can post. Someone called the PDGA office and they said it would be off for a week but I've heard from someone else that called Rhett directly and he said that Rhett will turn it back on later today but we have to promise there will be no "Rhett" bashing.

Still....do you really think punishing the whole group for the acts of a few is right? :confused:

I thought it was a bit extreme myself.

I never say the "Rhatt" thread, where was that at? It was not on the Tulsa board.

I think I saw it somewhere. I can't remember where though.

I think most of this came out of a personal PM war that Rhett and The Red Haired one was having. :(

I thought it was a bit extreme myself.

I never say the "Rhatt" thread, where was that at? It was not on the Tulsa board.



It was on the Tulsa board.

Well, I do not understand what he did, then. Is it that no one can post there now? I didn't know we could do that :)

And I just went and tested both. I could post. Maybe 'cause I am an admin?



The exact condition of the Tulsa Disc Sports Association thread is that everyone can view all the posts and replies ect. but no one can post.

I believe you and Rhett as administrators can post whatever you want. If that is so, I believe you should assess the situation and post an explanation on our board, so everyone will know whats up.

I have personally spoken to Rhett and he told me he would turn it back on sometime today, maybe after the world cup quarterfinals (Germany won 4-2). And I, who have really be very critical of Rhett, told him that I would post, once it is activated, with something to the effect of, "Hey guys, Rhett is giving us a second chance here. I don't think there should be any 'Rhett Bashing' here".

I would appreciate any information you could add.

I think most of this came out of a personal PM war that Rhett and The Red Haired one was having. :(



Not true. And besides Pm's are exactly that private messages. There is no way that the public could be punished for any one mans actions.

And I just went and tested both. I could post. Maybe 'cause I am an admin?



In the Tulsa Forum you posted under the mac classic thread not AM WORLDS!!!

I don't think people like Wayne Forest, Martin Norris, Robert "Doc" Morton, Melissa Stayce, and a lot of other Tulsa members who never subbed the "$" sign for an "S" should have their right to post on their club site taken away because of the acts of one for a few others. Even if it's just for a day.

You theatened to slap him if he was ever in town and yes I'm sure he didn't like that. Maybe a little private board rage going on between you two? :confused:....He should have banned you straight out. Others he sent warnings to because he doesn't want to have to ban anyone but in this case he made everyone responsible for the actions or a few. :(

Maybe we as a club should create our own editor or monitor so we monitor all members and keep them from getting us all kicked off the board. :confused:

Maybe we as a club should create our own editor or monitor so we monitor all members and keep them from getting us all kicked off the board. :confused:


I think that's a great idea! I waste more time in the Tulsa topic area than anywhere else, and it would be nice to offload some of that to an interested party.

Please PM me if interested.

I also posted a big blurb about it on the sticky thread in the Tulsa forum.

Obviously he can't punish the individual so he has to punish the whole group. :(


Originally I banned individuals. And there was tremendous outrage and crying and bashing from the public at large. "Why don't you be nicer and just warn them???" So the heavy handed banning was stopped. After all, a whole day of not posting is so unfair.

I guess it is time for banning to come back.

And I, who have really be very critical of Rhett, told him that I would post, once it is activated, with something to the effect of, "Hey guys, Rhett is giving us a second chance here. I don't think there should be any 'Rhett Bashing' here".


No need for anyone to suck up to me. I don't require that or even desire it.

I guess it is time for banning to come back.



I agree, go ahead and ban them. The fact that you give them a warning is great but if they keep on doing it go ahead and ban the individual even if he happens to be a state coodinator. He should know better. There is no need for a "3 strikes and you're out" rule. :cool:

Happy Birthday: discjazz , GrunioN ,First_Run_Plankeye ,MDR_3000 ,hestock ,Beached_Will



A blast from the past. :D

Years ago I was a naughty boy and needed a spanking from Rhett for my actions on this forum. He never gave them to me but I still love him anyway. Common sense is as usual lacking in peoples judgement on this or any other forum, it always has and always will. There are buttheads and NOTHING can be done about them. We all know this and we all should expect to be banned or bleeped or something. Just be thankful we have what we have and lets hope that someday we can get good people in the PDGA office that wont toke reefer in public during a worlds event...hope we get people like Rhett that devote a lot of FREE time to promote the sport (like me)...hope that someday this forum will be viewed by millions of fans like the big sports do, and just be good people. I myself have a potty mouth and have been told frequently to stop or else but thats part of who I am and will probably keep doing it but at least it got much better. With age comes wisdom...(plus I havent had any alcohol in over a year)
Thanks Rhett and lets see some bleeps and keep our heads up #%$@&*^%$#! :D

Hey Rhett, what happened the Suicide horse racing thread. Did it go too far????

Rhett doesnt weven know about that thread. admin patb killed it. there were too many creative phrases that led to certain acronyms that were over the line. that youtubes post didnt help, cuz it spelled out the word for all to see. patb felt it best to make it disappear before it caused trouble.

agreed, but the youtube clip was funny :D

I posted about seeing the race on TV once.