nice article. my theory is that by nature cyberspace places us all into a post normative morality mode. because cyberspace has little or no established morality or moral history we are left to make up our own. like a transplanted organ is recognized as alien and rejected by its new host, "real" world morality is rejected by the post normative online organism.

Wow, that is deep. :o :D

I think most people are less likely to get their butt kicked through a monitor, therefore manners suffer. Others just think manners are over-rated.

Wow. At least you didn't let your political ideology bleed into your article on virtual communities. /sarcasm



Haven't got an ideology, just a collection of observations informed by reading and thinking. Try really hard to never let anything get to the level of a belief. Don't hate anyone, either. I can't believe, sometimes, that they pay me for writing that column, much less let me leave my sarcastic political comments in there. :)

I've got nothing against hunting. Never have done it myself, although I am an excellent marksman and I do love to shoot at targets. (At U-M one year the ROTC opened up their .22 competition to outside teams. A team of law students which I put together kicked their butts. That was the last time they opened it up!)

But I consider the guys who eliminate the sportsmanlike part and basically just do target practice with living things ("convenience hunting") about on a par with people who can't post without profanity and vulgarity. Actually, worse.

nice article. my theory is that by nature cyberspace places us all into a post normative morality mode. because cyberspace has little or no established morality or moral history we are left to make up our own. like a transplanted organ is recognized as alien and rejected by its new host, "real" world morality is rejected by the post normative online organism.



Thanks. I saw this coming years ago and wrote about it some then, when I realized that young people online whose parents didn't have a clue (most parents, and teachers also, at that time) were learning how to live in cyberspace without learning to fit into a pre-existing culture: "Cyber-Lord of the Flies." Since many adult "early adopters" of the Web were mainly out for porn, that just poisoned the mix.

I think we're going to see things get a lot worse. Have any of you folks visited http://www.DontDateHimGirl.com yet?

I don't have anything against hunting when the animals are equally equipped with guns of their own. Funny thing is I don't have any problem when rich vice presidents shoot rich lawyers either. Kind of makes me feel like there's still justice in the world. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

You know, that's what I've always wondered about hunting. When there is a real challenge, it takes skill and wisdom, maybe some sacrifice and risk, then that sounds like hunting to me.

Going after whitetail deer with a spear, for example, would take hunting to a level that makes sense to me.

(I actually wrestled a [clawless and muzzled) bear once to get a feeling for what a human up against an undomesticated animal would feel like. Fellow anthropologists kept going on about how 'defenseless' stone-tool-bearing Australopithecines would have been on the savannah; I figured they were probably the toughest animals out there, at least in a group.)

Sitting up in a blind, over piles of carrots, doesn't do it for me.

I once wrestled with an undomesticated animal to feel what true risk felt like. This one had claws and no muzzle.

It turned out to be my ex-wife. :( :D

The only hunting allowed on my land in Tenn is bow hunting. However, if you don't hunt the Deer, thier herds get too large (no natural preditors) and they start eating/damaging everyones crops (boy they love soybeans)

when it get real bad, farmers can apply to protect there crops. They just can't keep the deer meat for themselves when they shoot deer. :confused:

Most of the hunters of Houston Country Tenn. hunt for the meat anyways. (deer meat and sausage is not that bad)

Does the landowner have the rights to the meat then?

Why is the word a s s not allowed?

nice article. my theory is that by nature cyberspace places us all into a post normative morality mode. because cyberspace has little or no established morality or moral history we are left to make up our own. like a transplanted organ is recognized as alien and rejected by its new host, "real" world morality is rejected by the post normative online organism.



Thanks. I saw this coming years ago and wrote about it some then, when I realized that young people online whose parents didn't have a clue (most parents, and teachers also, at that time) were learning how to live in cyberspace without learning to fit into a pre-existing culture: "Cyber-Lord of the Flies." Since many adult "early adopters" of the Web were mainly out for porn, that just poisoned the mix.

I think we're going to see things get a lot worse. Have any of you folks visited http://www.DontDateHimGirl.com yet?

wow, talk about judgemental! istill think your article was nice, but your posts are becoming of the "i'm right and the world should be my way" variety.

"learning to fit into a pre-existing culture"??? why is that a requirement? every societal advance in history has come from people who rejected, for whatever reason, the "pre-existing" culture. quite a few of those advances turned out for the better. the whole premise of non normative morality is that people who choose to reject the morals of the "pre-existing" culture must somehow form their own moral code and standard. a great many of the folks have decided they were gonna get past the labelling of certain words as "bad". but those same people might hold very dear other moral values that you also embrace. who is anyone to judge? i guess "poisoning" is in the eyes of the beholder.

btw, how'd that bear feel about being clawless and muzzled? just so you could experience what it would feel like to wrestle such a beast. that is far more despicable than any word ever used on this board.

Why is the word a s s not allowed?



Because saying it is bad, m-kay.
And if you say it, you're bad, m-kay.

I think the idea is that if you call someone a "donkey" they will less offended... ;)

Just the other day my girlfriend told me to get my "fat donkey" off the couch and start cleaning the house. .....and Waa-la!...I didn't feel offended at all. :cool:

I have no problem with censoring posts that flame others and harshly offend others. However, a word doesn't offend. The context it is used in, does.

I am listening to talk radio right now (not satellite, free radio) and over the last hour, I have heard 5 or 6 words that would be censored on here. Why is that? They are broadcasting it to millions and they are governed by the FCC. Their rules should be more strict, not less.

btw, how'd that bear feel about being clawless and muzzled? just so you could experience what it would feel like to wrestle such a beast. that is far more despicable than any word ever used on this board.



It wasn't declawed and muzzled just for me, it had been so for over a decade and was traveling through with a circus. I was very young and would not do it now, because I agree with you that treating it as its owners did was despicable.

Does the landowner have the rights to the meat then?



Nope, something to do with it not being hunting season.

If you all would read Terry's article over at the IT webpage, you would see what I've been seeing.

That would be the intonations of "getting rid of the message board".

I personally really like this DISCussion board and would hate to see it eliminated.

Keeping those things in mind, when I consider the possibility of the PDGA BOD recommending closing down the board and actually calling for commentary (hey, it could happen), I cannot come up with a good reason that I really believe in to argue for keeping the board in it's natural state. That's me. Maybe some of you think that "the internet is supposed to be free, man" is a good argument for the PDGA to spend my membership dues and volunteer hours on this thing, but I dont' see it that way. With an organization like the PDGA, I firmly believe that something must help advance the sport of disc golf in order to be worthy of dues money and volunteer time. Maybe if we had a $20M budget we could have more fluff, but unless it does something for the sport or provides something for more that 50 of 5000 members it doesn't make the cut in my book.

But that's just me.

So swearing on the forum dedicated to disc golf isn't necessary or required or desirable, as it keeps PDGA members from using the board. This isn't even arguable, although people will argue. Cracking down on it and trying to limit it to sly misspellings on vague threads is an improvement of the board.

Another improvement would be to have an area about disc golf that moderated to stay on-topic. I would like to move to that next. Like the tournament and rules topic areas, and maybe a couple o others.

I like talking trash and taking part in inane banter just as much as most of you posting do, but when the entire discussion board is dedicated to pretty much only that, then I don't see any value in the board as far as disc golf goes. So I would like to see a split in the topic areas, with a portion dedicated to on-topic PDGA and disc golf related topics that are readable by all and post-able only by PDGA members, and another section where inanity and goofiness can rule that is only viewable and post-able by PDGA members.

With a split like that, the PDGA DISCussion board could possibly help to advance the sport of disc golf and also at the same time provide a goofy and fun outlet for PDGA members. Currently I do not see the sport being advanced when people have to wade through page after page of junk in the tournament threads when all they really want to know is something about the actual topic.

With a split like that I could argue all day long about why the PDGA BOD should keep the DISCussion board up and going. Without it, I would just grudgingly agree that this place is a waste of PDGA resources.

So for those of you who might think I am some sort anti-swearing prude, please read that again. I hope it will help you understand where I am coming from. Bans for swearing seem to be the only way to convince people that I am serious about this approach.

well since you were wishing for more "fluff" (and you do live close to LA) i can only assume you are not truly a prude. :D

Thank you Rhett. I too do not want to see the board go down.

I am also very guilty of the off topic discussion. Of course that is why I am here most of the time.

Another note, there were 47 ANONs checking out the board a few minuets ago.

I know for a fact that this board has hooked players into playing tournaments.

I know because they have come up to me and said so.

I would rather ban a few people who can't watch there mouth than loose the BEST advertizing a tournament can get.

Now a question.

is F-bomb ok, or does it depend on the use of it.

What about Freaking??? I use this in place of the f-bomb.

so if I wished you a F-Bomb birthday, would that be appropriate or is that crossing the line?

What about F'n?? I have seen this use on several boards.

(btw, the only board that I ever read that does NOT ban words is *** board. I say this because it is the only board I go to that has cussing on it.)

This is only a question to know when someone is crossing the line. I know that using a * in place of a vowel will get you banned.

I would rather ban a few people who can't watch there mouth than loose the BEST advertizing a tournament can get.

i would rather ban people who cant spell :D

it probably depends on who is the mod of the day and what type of mood they are in!! :confused:

What, advertising??? or is there another one in there.

For some reason, Advertising and Cruise are two words that when I type I almost always use a Z in place of the S. I have no idea why.

The real question is whether any of it is necessary.

The question could be does it offend anyone, but we all know that it does. The arguement about whether the offended parties are being overly sensitive isn't really pertinent.

Get a dictionary and find alternatives to the banned words and try using them instead.

First, happy birthday, Rhett!

Secondly, can the message board be moved to another domain? Maybe if the message board doesn't reside on the pdga.com server then there is less of a fear that it will scare away potential sponsors?

Actually, Bryan, there are two words that are misspelled in that quote: advertising and loose (should be lose) . To set loose the board is what some posters want to do. To lose the board is something none of us want. I've achieved the ability to overlook (somewhat) the misspellings in your posts. My husband does not know how to spell either. I hope you don't mind me pointing out corrections occasionally. :)

In my opinion, while freakin', f-bomb, etc. are better than the actual word, it is still not how you would speak to a business that would be a potential sponsor, which seems to be the whole point of what is being said by the administrators.

BTW, Happy birthday Rhett.

shame lauraq! you missed his use of there when he meant their. maybe not a mispelling, but i was giving him the benefit of the doubt on the grammar aspect. :D

my spelling is so bad that I stump spellcheck all the time.

Pat,
Are you responsible for the new "member since" feature?
It's about time those were converted. :cool:

mine two :D:D

Pat,
Are you responsible for the new "member since" feature?
It's about time those were converted. :cool:

yes, that would be my dealio. i left the reged date because there actually are a surprisingly large number of folks who have joined the board after 11/03/03 when this board verswion was launched.

member since was a feature requested by the members. i had some time this weekend, so i thought i'd knock it out. plus, it makes for very interesting stuff when you look at the guy who is currently rated #7 in the world and then see his membership started AFTER some of his rated rounds - otherwise he would be #1, and lord knows we cant have an unknown in the # spot. the old school would likely have a coronary! :D

I like it.
Thanks.

Oh, I thought he was point to that mouth there --> :) (j/k)
I wonder if grammar and spelling are covered in the TAKS tests?
Because those tests are being given today and I have a friend/co-worker who's child is very bright in everything except reading, I called and asked her and she said they don't seem to care about spelling and grammar in school ( at least here in Texas). Of course, they probably don't care about the use of profain words either.

I'm so old, I can't remember when I joined. Thanks for reminding me, Pat. :D

Where is my 'member sense"

if your "member since" is not displaying, its because the Office does not include that data in your online database record. to make it display, please contact the office and ask that they update their records. we push new data out at least once a week, and it will show up automatically once the online database has been updated. (if the data is blank or NULL, i dont even show the "member since" label)

btw, for my next trick i will be limiting the length of user displaynames so that goofballs cant screw up the entire layout with names like I_AM_A_SILLY_YOUNG_ GOOFBALL_WHO_IS_UP_ AND_COMING_AND_SPONSORED_AND_A_TEXAN_ WHO_CAN_THROW_REALLY_REALLY_FAR_AND_YOU_ ALL_SHOULD_BE_THANKFUL_I_DONT_THROW_A_REAL_ BRAND_OF_PLASTIC_THANKS_SEE_YOU_IN_THE_TOP_TEN

Man I wish my screen name was that long. :D

btw, for my next trick i will be limiting the length of user displaynames so that goofballs cant screw up the entire layout with names like I_AM_A_SILLY_YOUNG_GOOFBALL_WHO_IS_UP_AND_COMING_A ND_SPONSORED_AND_A_TEXAN_WHO_CAN_THROW_REALLY_REAL LY_FAR_AND_YOU_ALL_SHOULD_BE_THANKFUL_I_DONT_THROW _A_REAL_BRAND_OF_PLASTIC_THANKS_SEE_YOU_IN_THE_TOP _TEN



are you done with that yet?

I like it.
Thanks.


same here , nice addition Pat!! :D

Thanks Rhett. :cool:

I just want you to know that all of us DG'ers here in Tulsa are happy that you are making the sacrifice to stay up late and weed out the WMD from our board. I'm sure our PDGA State Coordinator, Kevin McCoy, knew the consequence of using "%^#$" in the header of the GCD tournament thread. But he did it anyway. The next thing you know formats are posted, members start communicating, people start looking for partners. Basically the type of thing that occasionally happens on the affiliate club forums.

Maybe Bush should take lessons from your "Scorched Earth" policy. Instead of sending our people over there to fight the bad guys why don't we just nuke the whole place? Yea, we'll kill some innocent women and children but so what. We're bound to get a few bad guys in the process?

Instead of editing the header and punishing the individual you decided to nuke the whole thread. Good for you. Why worry about any good information that may have been there or the members that had taken the time to post it. You weren't going to play in that tournament anyway. Did you ban Kevin McCoy? Did you send him a dirty PM? Should we impeach him from his State Coordinator Position? You're probably right. That guy is scaring away members who may want to post here. Let alone all the potential sponsors.

I heard at one time Hooters restaurant was willing to be a sponsor of the Am Worlds this year but the PDGA turned them down. Something about not wanting to have the PDGA associated with young athletic women and buffalo wings. Maybe Enron or Martha Stewart Enterprises is more our style. Seems to me that I'm a sponsor. At least that's what it said on that letter that came the other day with my new membership card. I'm also one of the less than 22% of PDGA sponsors who voted in last years election and for twenty-five grand I can even get my name on a course in Georgia. Well I'll write a provision for that in my will.

I understand and agree with you and PDGA wanting to clean up some of the trash on the board. I just think that you could use a little more common sense when it comes to deleting entire tournament threads. You are becoming the new Gladis Kravit's and you are lacking consistency in what you do from one day to the next. Do you want to ban "Thread Drift" also? You should see all the thread drift on the new GCD thread you created after you deleted the original. Now everybody is going to have to wade through 2 or 3 pages of PDGA sponsors talking about you.

You want to improve the image of the sport? Get a drug sniffing dog and start drug testing at all your tournaments. If the player runs.....he's guilty... :o... You need another idea? Report all the pro winnings to the IRS just in case the players forget to claim it on their taxes. Show Uncle Sam that the PDGA loves him too. And don't leave out those Am baggers who win all the time and turn around and sell their plastic in the parking lot. We got one of those guys down here already. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Hey I appreciate the board and would hate to see it go but before you and the BOD go off somewhere and vote to get rid of it, don't forget about who sponsors the PDGA. I'm not trying to legalize curse words. I just wish that you could use a little common sense in the way you are handling your position. :confused:

furry dog, yoyu obviously dont understand.

actually typing the characters {{{this "clever shtuff" (not the word rhett used to describe it!!!!!!!! edited at the request of RHETT }}}} is a blatant violation of the bad words rules.

but its totally OK to type {{{this "clever shtuff" (not the word rhett used to describe it!!!!!!!! edited at the request of RHETT }}}} and let the bad-word-eliminator substitute {{{this "clever shtuff" (not the word rhett used to describe it!!!!!!!! edited at the request of RHETT even though rhett himself decides what the bad word substitution phrase is!!!! }}}} automatically.

makes sense to me :D

(maybe we're not allowed to have that ! so close to the + or sumpin.)

I heard many negative pdga opinions yeterday by locals that read the board, its sad!! I speak for many when I say WE ARE THE PDGA STOP PUSHING US AWAY!! Do you have any idea how many regular board users have migrated to other dg sites? Is that what the pdga wants??

50% of the reason I joined was because of these boards.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Don't take away our best means of communication !!!
__________________________________________________ ____
"Those that reject the path to enlightenment must be destoyed"

I'm sure our PDGA State Coordinator, Kevin McCoy, knew the consequence of using "%^#$" in the header of the GCD tournament thread.

Instead of editing the header and punishing the individual you decided to nuke the whole thread.


Those weren't the clever chars used in the thread title. Editing the title would require editing all 111 or so titles.

Nice job over-dramatizing, though. I thought you could've worked in me being responsible for the high price of gasoline and also for the exportation of manufacturing jobs overseas. Maybe next time. :)

50% of the reason I joined was because of these boards.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Don't take away our best means of commnication !!!
__________________________________________________ ____
"Those that reject the path to enlightenment must be destoyed"

Cute quote. If the path to enlightenment necessary leads to perfected spelling skills, you just blew your cover.

Nice try but I edited my spelling.
Maybe you will do the same.
It's spelled "necessarily".

this was posted by Kevin the offender in the Tulsa thread.
GIVE RHETT A BREAK!

Jeez you guys! Rhett is GOOD PEOPLE! He is wasting way too much time censoring us. Its got to be driving him nuts and he's a great guy, please cut him some slack. He is a good geniune guy that I would call a friend and you guys are hammering him. Rhett puts his time and effort into helping Disc Golf grow. He's not the bad guy he is just enforcing the rules that were put into place....

I know I have toed the line more than anyone on this DISCussion board but please don't get pissy with Rhett. He's one of the good ones in this game we all love.





I thought it needed to be posted here too. This was written by Kevin, one of the most banned posters on the board.

Meine Frage ist: Was �ber andere Sprachen? Ist sie nur Englisch, oder kann ich auch verboten werden wenn ich etwas auf Deutsch gesagt habe? 99.8% von Spielern kann gar kein Deutsch lesen. :D

I heard many negative pdga opinions yeterday by locals that read the board, its sad!! I speak for many when I say WE ARE THE PDGA STOP PUSHING US AWAY!! Do you have any idea how many regular board users have migrated to other dg sites? Is that what the pdga wants??



a much friendlier forum (http://www.#$*&$!.com/snitz/default.asp) :p

Well...It would reduce overhead costs at HQ....

The org is not pushing people away. People are leaving because of perceived slights against non-existant rights (within this forum) when the truth is they simply don't want to follow the rules.

Well...It would reduce overhead costs at HQ....

The org is not pushing people away. People are leaving because of perceived slights against non-existant rights (within this forum) when the truth is they simply don't want to follow the rules.



actually yes they are pushing people away with their disney channel mentality , facts are facts!! the frequency of posts on the other forum has significantly escalated!! I also know of a couple td's who will not be sanctioning their tourney or tournies as well!!

No, people are leaving because they can't abide by the rules they themselves agreed to when they signed up on the board the first time. The rules haven't changed, it just got to the point that the severe abuses of a few drew attention to the minor abuses of the many. Now we are all paying the price.

I also know of a couple td's who will not be sanctioning their tourney or tournies as well!!



Who? Name names so I'll know who not to support...

last time I checked no one on here was injured or died because of some words. fact of life, people cuss, even youngins. dadburnit.

I seem to recall a few times that words here led to damage on the course.

The argument is not whether profanity is acceptable, the argument is whether people should be held to rules as they exist.

If they want to change the rules the process is different.

Most of us make it through the day without being arrested, tha means we all have some amount of self control, exercise it and it will get stronger.

Meine Frage ist: Was �ber andere Sprachen? Ist sie nur Englisch, oder kann ich auch verboten werden wenn ich etwas auf Deutsch gesagt habe? 99.8% von Spielern kann gar kein Deutsch lesen. :D


Er w�rde vermutlich eine Beanstandung f�r mich erfordern, zu wissen, da� Sie auf Deutsch swearing. Es hat keine Verbote f�r "Unf�lle" gegeben. Alle Verbote wurden f�r absichtliche T�tigkeiten herausgegeben.

Gary, I work for 32 Federal Judges who can put you in jail for just looking at them funny. I got control baby! :D

I don't recall you having a problem with your language on the board. Maybe I should pay more attention.

Brian is a swearing machine.

Meine Frage ist: Was �ber andere Sprachen? Ist sie nur Englisch, oder kann ich auch verboten werden wenn ich etwas auf Deutsch gesagt habe? 99.8% von Spielern kann gar kein Deutsch lesen. :D



Vorsicht! Ich habe Deutsch vier Jahre in der Schule und vier Jahre bei der Universit�t studiert. Es gibt viele Spieler da� Deutsch lesen kann!

Lassen Sie mich einfach dieses sagen: danken Sie G�te f�r Google �bersetzen! :)

Ich hoffe, da� diese �bersetzungen annehmbar sind und ich nicht beleidigendes nichts sage. :o

The german language is *&%$#. :eek:

and

What kind of board have we created when the administrator is out searching the board for &^%$*. ;)

I would think that there are others out there lurking through the board and reporting offenses to the Admin. Besides, he said he doesn't worry much about the words that the filter catches, it's the ones that are craftily mispelled that are still basically readable that he has been going after.

I swear at machines! I'm in IT after all.

This was posted on one of the Tulsa threads...I think it bears repeating. These are the rules that every member who signs up on this board agrees to follow.


Remember: you are in a public forum, talking to your fellow disc golfers. Behave accordingly. Disagreements are fine; personal attacks are not. This DISCussion board is first a foremost a PDGA resource for PDGA members.
The basic rule of thumb for posting here is this: Don't post anything that you might get warned or stroked about during competitive, santioned PDGA play. In other words, the courtesy rules apply here as well as during a PDGA event. Another basic rule of thumb is that on the Internet you need to be twice as nice on line to have any chance at all of people knowing, from your postings, that you are as nice as you are in person.

This PDGA-sponsored board does not guarantee freedom of speech. Messages containing profanity, inflammatory comments, or other offensive content may be removed at the discretion of the board monitors. Individuals who persist in this behavior may be barred from future posting.

Respect others' time and energy. If a posting would be better served by direct email to the author, contact them directly. Commercial posts are not allowed and will be removed. If you would like to carry on a conversation, please use the chat room.

The PDGA does not officially monitor the message board. For questions directed to the PDGA office, the PDGA Board of Directors, or a PDGA committee, use the the "Contact" link from the main menu on PDGA pages. While PDGA representatives may post on the board from time to time, they are posting as individuals, and their opinions as expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the PDGA.

This forum is provided by the PDGA for the use and enjoyment of disc golfers. If you have complaints about any content on the board, please use the feedback form and let us know.

No, people are leaving because they can't abide by the rules they themselves agreed to when they signed up on the board the first time. The rules haven't changed, it just got to the point that the severe abuses of a few drew attention to the minor abuses of the many. Now we are all paying the price.



you are right and wrong in your statements Gary. when i stated why some people are leaving those were facts from the individuals themselves not my opinion!!On a side note why is the name of the other forum banned? If there is such a problem with people's language why not let them view a link to a place where they may express themselves as they wish??I have seen numerous links to many sights far worse than the other forum, why the hypocrisy? ?? Just my opinion

No hypocracy, The PDGA makes no claims to be unbiased or an equal opportunity advertiser for other sites.

There is sufficient history between the other site and the PDGA to warrant their position. There is a valid case for the argument that the other site has a great deal to do with the tightening of the PDGA board.

It is a valid business plan, "Create a need, then fill it".

So what you are saying is that the Pdga is obviously Biased !! WE are not talking about advertising for anyone WE are talking about making a resource available for the players, thats it!! It's a common practise ,providing links to other resources, isn't it?? If it's not hypocracy then it must be monopolistic in it's intent??

Some of you are going to great lengths in order to read far more into some of this stuff than is there.

Some of you are going to great lengths in order to read far more into some of this stuff than is there.

Can you please explain yourself and your comment? Just trying to get a better understanding of what your point is?? thanx in advance!!

Pretty simple really....certain people dont like Mike so they keep the mention of his website off the website they support and help operate.

As far as the language..there is no use for the bad language here but it appears, since the push to eliminate it, that the board has become a sea of posts trying to push the limits and actually making the board come off looking worse then the curse words did/would. IMO

I have had several problems with Mike Crump myself , however his site is a good resource and I along with many other pdga members use it frequently!! I was even asked to be a moderator on that site for which I declined!! :p

Yeah I was posting there for a short time period and I have also had my run-ins with Mike. Really the only reason I havent been in a while was just the lack of posts to read/reply to. It may very well be a good resourse but the fact still remains that only a couple people pull the strings over here and Mike rubbed one or 2 of them the wrong way.

He certainly did . He had the wrong approach over here and was a trouble maker!! There has been a significant increase in activity recently for the obvious reasons!!I think it is especially funny that Rhett's potential future son-in-law is one of the most active on said banned site!! ;)

HEH!!! the link you did is gone, who did that???
ES pm me the info please............

The name of that site is banned on here!!

It is a long story, and not worth rehashing completely.

What happened the last few years forced the member only policy implementation, it had been discussed for years, but there was no demonstrated need for it so it had never been done. Mike demonstated the need, so it was finally done. Once that was done, and effective bans could be issued, they have started in on the bad language.

Along the lines of prohibition makes it worse, there is actually very little profanity on the other site, and the little that is there seems to be done just to prove it can be done.

It's really fairly civil over there. It's amazing what can happen when the foxes are in charge of the hen house.

Lassen Sie mich einfach dieses sagen: danken Sie G�te f�r Google �bersetzen! :)

Ich hoffe, da� diese �bersetzungen annehmbar sind und ich nicht beleidigendes nichts sage. :o



Rhett, google translations leave a lot to be desired! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Some of you are going to great lengths in order to read far more into some of this stuff than is there.

Can you please explain yourself and your comment? Just trying to get a better understanding of what your point is?? thanx in advance!!


There is a lot of drama attached to some of the complaints, ranging from assaults on my manliness to grand conspiracy theories about the PDGA in general.

Right now it is pretty simple. I am trying to get rid of or at least minimize the swearing on this board. That is it. I'm not singling out anybody or any area or any club. All f-bombs and s-bombs are equal.

A few people who are dedicated against such a change are really trying to push the limits. This is to be expected. Eventually it will calm down and then hopefully the majority of the posts on this forum will be about disc golf.

A few insta-bans of one day have been issued. These are attention getters. I'm sure someone will be so outraged by such a thing that they will demand a longer or even permanent ban. I certainly hope this will not be the case, but I fully expect it and I'm willing to grant that demand should anyone feel so strongly as to push it to that end.

No posts have been deleted for disagreeing with this policy, unless those posts also contained swearing.

No users have been banned for disagreeing with this policy. No users have been banned for disagreeing with me. So far no users have been banned for resorting to personal attacks on me in the hopes of engaging me in a flame war on the board.

I believe we are getting close to an end of the "outrage" over censoring swear words.

I also believe that every PDGA member that posts here has a right to disagreee with the no-swearing policy, and a right to voice that opposition as long as they don't swear or resort to personal attacks. DISCussion of the policy might lead to change of the policy. Who knows.

It's really fairly civil over there. It's amazing what can happen when the foxes are in charge of the hen house.


I have heard that they censor and ban people and thoughts far more over there than what they complained about over here.

Is that true?

I dont know if that is true or not but I do know that Terry was posting here how they were doing that to him and they are hypocrits etc...yet I went over there and Terry's posts were never deleted or censored, appearently he just "couldnt remember" what threads he posted in and decided that since he couldnt find them he would come here and make up stories. In other words, some of the people around here are just as bad as they claim Mike to be.

I would't know. I don't really push the envelope in this forum, and haven't posted much over there.

testing:

I also know of a couple td's who will not be sanctioning their tourney or tournies as well!!



Who? Name names so I'll know who not to support...




Still waiting on those TD's....

[/QUOTE]Nice job over-dramatizing, though. I thought you could've worked in me being responsible for the high price of gasoline and also for the exportation of manufacturing jobs overseas. Maybe next time. :)

[/QUOTE]

Rhett. Other than knowing you're hiding Osama at your house, if I thought you had something to do with the high price of gas I would have included it in my post... ;)... The price of gas in Oklahoma is still cheaper then it is in California but our state makes up for it by building toll roads everywhere. Those toll booths have devices in them that are capable of sniffing out drug money and beer in excess of 3.2% that the Texan's are smuggling across to drink at Am Worlds. The booths may also have something to do with all those Texas guys sneaking across the border at night to try and steal our women... :o

Sorry to over-dramatize. Like I said. I don't have a problem with the PDGA cleaning up the board if they can do it with some consistency. I guess that will come in time. I appreciate that you are at least responding to some of these posts. Maybe my problem with the PDGA lies in other area's. :(

I also know of a couple td's who will not be sanctioning their tourney or tournies as well!!



Who? Name names so I'll know who not to support...




Still waiting on those TD's....

are you still waiting??? :p

Nope. I figured your statement had little substance behind it.

I am against censorship in general but throw the occasional F-bomb. That being said, tirades of curse words, racial pejoratives, personal attacks and a few genitalia specific curse words, are in my opinion not acceptable in a public forum and in certain situations may cause me to become (regrettably) violent. I am starting to feel we are beating the proverbial dead horse. I hope that no TD thinks he/she need not sanction an event due to this issue. I would also hope that the PDGA would see fit to provide paying customers (we all are now) an outlet for what they feel they need. The B-A-R or something like it should be reopened so the folks who want to be a bit rough around the edges can do so. I camped at a recent tournament and heard ladies cussing with the best of sailors. I know not to take my four year old daughter to this event in the future. I don�t need the PDGA to parent for me, nor do I need the PDGA to treat me like a child. Rhett has used poor judgment in lots of people�s opinion by banning folks when there were other choices and some of us have acted childish in turn. Simply give the customers what they want.

You can satisfy some of the poeple some of the time.

You can satisfy some of the people all of the time.

But you cant satisfy all the people all of the time.

People will quit and join the PDGA for a variety of reasons. People will play tournaments for different reasons too.

I know people who will never play a PDGA tournament, and I also know even more people who will not play non-PDGA tournaments.

My point is, this board only helps tournaments and the PDGA, the subject is not going to effect PDGA players much. A few members may quit posting, but I am willing to bet it is only a few.

You can satisfy some of the poeple some of the time.

You can satisfy some of the people all of the time.

But you cant satisfy all the people all of the time




that would be:

some of the people all of the time.

all of the people some of the time.

You can satisfy some of the poeple some of the time.

You can satisfy some of the people all of the time.

But you cant satisfy all the people all of the time




that would be:

some of the people all of the time.

all of the people some of the time.



There's a new sheriff in town! Move over gb... :D;) LOL!

Nope. I figured your statement had little substance behind it.

you figured wrong!! :p

Well, I would really like to know who they are and which events are effected so I can update the LSDGA.com event schedule properly. If you don't wish to post them to the board, please send me a PM or email.

sorry, i can not do that !!

That doesn't really make much sense. Is it some big secret that they intend to spring on their players during the player's meeting ? Don't they want the TX events schedule to reflect their events correctly ? There are a lot of unsanctioned events on the calendar, and I just want the players to be able to plan which events they want to attend based on correct information.

If you don't feel comfortable telling me who they are, then please tell them to get in touch with me so I can update the schedule.

I will not speak of this any further.. I have said too much as it is!!

Nice F_Bummer, and we can all guess that the dog ate your homework, too.

Plus:


I dont know if that is true or not but I do know that Terry was posting here how they were doing that to him and they are hypocrits etc...yet I went over there and Terry's posts were never deleted or censored, appearently he just "couldnt remember" what threads he posted in and decided that since he couldnt find them he would come here and make up stories. In other words, some of the people around here are just as bad as they claim Mike to be.



Scott, that couldn't have been done any better if you were one of those Swiftboaters. One of our versions of all that is twisted, and it isn't mine.

From what I have seen on the List That Must Not Be Named, posters there are subject to basically the whim of one or two people, which is not to say that there is a lot of bias.

The PDGA doesn't care where people choose to visit or post, but our posting site is going to be clean and professional. Even if another site gets 10x as popular, serious disc golfers will still visit here a lot.

It may even have been me who proposed that the other list can't be linked-to. I definitely remember supporting it! The singlemost reason was that members of the group that started discussing it sent me copies of some email messages. [Copies of them are filed in various places.]

Suppose that in one of those email messages there was a discussion of the method to be used to crack into the PDGA databases such as membership records, tournament records, or the course directory and copy the data.

I don't know how big a part or role that intended data theft might have been going to play for the new list, but it was clear - if this weren't a hypothetical - that some of the core members of the new list were in fact inimical to the PDGA.

What if, then, nothing we had heard or read since then convinced us otherwise? In that event, it surely would have been stupid to let a list that might have stolen our proprietary data use our established list to promote itself. Why would you help folks who would commit data theft from you?

No Swiftboating in that story, just real recent memories from copies of electronic communications.

If anyone has a beef with DISCussion not linking to the other list, why not bring it to the one place you can get the most done? The board is meeting next Wednesday, and then Thursday morning, in Scottsdale, just before The Memorial. Come and present your case for a change in DISCussion policy.

If you come and present a decent case, you'll be pleased at how much more civil the discussion will be, than here on DISCussion, and things might change.

If you don't have a decent case, you'll probably chicken out and not bother because it would be so embarassing in front of so many people.

its too bad alot of us beleive the "swiftboaters". If the data theft is true, why haven't those people been brought to justice? Data theft is a crime.
I'm still trying to figure out how scott "bush"wacked you? From what I can tell, he was pointing out the obvious. But then again its politics as usual.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont know if that is true or not but I do know that Terry was posting here how they were doing that to him and they are hypocrits etc...yet I went over there and Terry's posts were never deleted or censored, appearently he just "couldnt remember" what threads he posted in and decided that since he couldnt find them he would come here and make up stories. In other words, some of the people around here are just as bad as they claim Mike to be.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Scott, that couldn't have been done any better if you were one of those Swiftboaters. One of our versions of all that is twisted, and it isn't mine.



Terry,

Fact: You made a post or two over there and went back and you couldn't find it.

Fact: You came to this board and posted that Mike deleted your post(s) for no reason plus a few other comments that i don't want to misquote you on..

Fact: I went to that board and saw your post in its entirety just seconds after you said it was deleted then came back to this board and told you the post was there and not deleted.

Fact: you posted in reply to me that you must have not been able to remember where you posted it.

Call me whatever you want but those are facts, no twisting of anything what so ever.
-

I come to this board and read everyday. Until yesterday I had not even been to the other site in months. I love coming to this board. I dont mind the no cursing policy. I dont care if the others sites link works here or not. I do think that non -members should have a place to post questions. I do think it would hurt the PDGA to remove DISCussion completely.

I do think that non -members should have a place to post questions. I do think it would hurt the PDGA to remove DISCussion completely.



to entertain a position contrary to the one you have taken above, it seems to me one would have to be failing to consider what it is like to be a young person in the 21st century. It's the age of the internet. Young people who are not presently PDGA members are the future of the PDGA. Shut them out, and we shoot ourselves in the foot. Making a special section of the Message board for newbies is a great idea, if we want to increase the membership...

I would personally like to see the board back to the way it was with non-members having full access. I really didn t see it as an issue. Yeah there were a few people that were irritating to say the least but nothing any different then i would run into in everyday life in person.If there are some that pose some real threat to the PDGA then there are other avenues you could take without punishing the innocent for the stupidity of a few.

As I posted in our MFA Yahoo group which I moderate, the problem is that a verbal curse such as on the course lasts one second and those in earshot usually can understand the context for it. Whether they like it or not, it's over quick. Typing curses in posts just lingers beyond any emotional context and scars the thread for everyone indefinitely.

I don't think cursing should be allowed on the board at all. Like i have said before, if you don't know who is listening/reading then you should watch what you say/type.

(I know you weren't directing that post at me but I thought i should repost my stance since you replied to me.)

Wasn't responding to anyone in particular, just a general remark.

I will not speak of this any further.. I have said too much as it is!!



My last word on this: Weak.

No conclusion. Just beating the topic to death. I really think we just need to be able to complain and we will be happy.

Is it some big secret that they intend to spring on their players during the player's meeting?

{The quote is edited into a question by krazyeye} That would be a cowardly thing to do.

Banning all message board cursing normally would not concern me, unless it went so far as to censor a word from a famous
(and humorous) Mark Twain quote...

Is it some big secret that they intend to spring on their players during the player's meeting?

{The quote is edited into a question by krazyeye} That would be a cowardly thing to do.



My apologies, that was supposed to be phrased as a question in the original post as well.

someone with some computer skills needs to write a program that censors curse words as they are posted. as soon as you hit submit, the program scans the text for the 6 or 7 words that are banned and deletes that word. this will end all the crap that is being batted around in this thread as far as cursing is concerned. As for non members not being able to post, I think a public thread needs to be established for the public whether their a member or not and the rest of the discussion board be for members. A simple solution that would work for just about everyone. Now everyone can quit their ******* and go play some dg.

There is already a program that prevents banned words from being posted. The issue is that posters are misspelling the words, or using formatting tricks to bypass the screens.

rules are rules, maybe the pdga should hold those members who knowingly break the rules accountable and ban them from the pdga entirely or put them on some kind of probation or suspension. Members have to be responsible for their actions and the pdga has to enforce their rules or be deemed impotent to enforce them.

are you saying that you'd like to see me banned for adjusting the typing of the word in the Twain quote below so it wouldn't get auto-censored? that's a quote Johnny Carson could have read on mainstream TV in the 1970's.

--------------------
<font color="green"> "Suppose you were an i d i o t. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself" </font> -- Mark Twain

Yes, if you find that a word you wish to use is banned and take intentional actions to display the word anyway, then you have intentionally broken the rules.

I don't agree with many of the words that are on the list now and would like to see the list changed. I think Rhett is working to get the list reduced. As you indicate the word in your quote is not automatically offensive.

obviously i intentionally broke the rules, but only to show how absurd they are. Granted -- my above act of disobedience isn't nearly as courageous as those who were involved in the Boston Tea Party, or like Rosa Parks in the Civil Rights Movement, or the American Indian Movement at Wounded Knee in 1973 -- but in its own (much) smaller way my goal, like theirs, is constructive.

that said, if i felt like anyone could feel reasonably harmed by my having gone under the radar -- i wouldn't have done it. i would think members of Congress would appreciate the quote more than most :p

since this may be the last time i am allowed on the message board -- it has been nice knowing you all. Normally i would expect moderators to be lenient if auto-censors are circumvented to convey a message that is not profane or abusive, but given the recent provincial changes regarding the message board -- all bets are off.

--------------------
"<font color="green">Suppose you were an i d i o t. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself</font>" -- Mark Twain

I also know of a couple td's who will not be sanctioning their tourney or tournies as well!!



Who? Name names so I'll know who not to support...




Still waiting on those TD's....



Yeah me too, So i can put those tourny's on my must play list

I also know of a couple td's who will not be sanctioning their tourney or tournies as well!!



Who? Name names so I'll know who not to support...




Still waiting on those TD's....



Yeah me too, So i can put those tourny's on my must play list



Me too, so I can put those on my no play list and NO SPONSORSHIP list.

I too would like to see non members post again. But it has been proven over and over and over again that 2 or 3 people will abuse it and you have to ban them somehow. The only way is to tie it to your PDGA number. So why restrict members only, now about a message board membership??? say $5-$10. If someone is willing to pay to post, I don't think they are going to abuse it.

Someone propose that at the Board Summit.

And as far as traffic on the board, there is less banter and more info now. Less thread drift. I can argue that is good or bad.

Some Tournements are about more than just racking up points or trying to improve your rating. TX10/TX7 for one, The Lance Armstrong Foundation would get less donations if it were sanctioned & this is one reason it's not. I'm all for Charity Tournements using the money, that would normally go to sanctioning fees, for a better cause. Your lack of SPONSORSHIP will be made up by those who care /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

why restrict members only, now about a message board membership??? say $5-$10. If someone is willing to pay to post, I don't think they are going to abuse it.



we should want people who aren't members frequenting this site and getting interested in the PDGA -- it should be our privilege to have them visit here. if you charged those who frequented a pizza place $10 just to be allowed to open their mouth once they walk in the door -- you would decrease your customer base -- not grow it.

If we insist on keeping parts of the board exlucive to members-only, we should definitely have one section of the board open to
non-members -- and free.

Some Tournements are about more than just racking up points or trying to improve your rating. TX10/TX7 for one, The Lance Armstrong Foundation would get less donations if it were sanctioned & this is one reason it's not. I'm all for Charity Tournements using the money, that would normally go to sanctioning fees, for a better cause. Your lack of SPONSORSHIP will be made up by those who care /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



I don't think Chris would like being grouped with any TDs that are not sanctioning their tournaments because they are upset with the PDGA. Traditionally only the final of the TX7/10 events has been sanctioned, and the series has been very successful at introducing new players to tournament golf. There certainly are events and or series that benefit the PDGA without being sanctioned themselves. But to imply that the TX7 isn't sanctioned because the TD is upset with the PDGA is misleading.

There sure are lots of Texans on this thread, but some are conspicuously absent. TDs.

[
I don't think Chris would like being grouped with any TDs that are not sanctioning their tournaments because they are upset with the PDGA. Traditionally only the final of the TX7/10 events has been sanctioned, and the series has been very successful at introducing new players to tournament golf. There certainly are events and or series that benefit the PDGA without being sanctioned themselves. But to imply that the TX7 isn't sanctioned because the TD is upset with the PDGA is misleading.


I said one of the reasons it wasn't sanctioned was because that money could be put to better use, quit trying to make it sound like i was "implying" something i wasn't Spin Doctor. :D

[
I don't think Chris would like being grouped with any TDs that are not sanctioning their tournaments because they are upset with the PDGA. Traditionally only the final of the TX7/10 events has been sanctioned, and the series has been very successful at introducing new players to tournament golf. There certainly are events and or series that benefit the PDGA without being sanctioned themselves. But to imply that the TX7 isn't sanctioned because the TD is upset with the PDGA is misleading.


I said one of the reasons it wasn't sanctioned was because that money could be put to better use, quit trying to make it sound like i was "implying" something i wasn't Spin Doctor. :D


How about TDs that don't sanction and the money goes to course improvment?
___________________
"Hallowed Are The Ori"

I usually sponsor several tournaments a year. (mostly with plastic)

I am a cash sponsor of the Texas 7 this year and yes 6 of those are non PDGA. But the finals has been an A-tier several times and that means you have to be a PDGA member to even play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (btw, Chris has looked severa times at making all the Texas 7 tournaments PDGA, he wanted to get a sponsor to cover the PDGA fees last time I talked to him about it)

I will also be sending some stuff to Houston this weekend for the Father Dave Memorial Moffit Show, this went non santioned a few years ago, but it is a tournament that raises money so the HFDS can sponsor tournaments in CASH like the Carrollton Open, VPO, and other large events in Texas.

Not every tournament that MaceMan runs is PDGA, but most are. I usually give a bag of goodies to Mace at every tournament I attend of his.

I try to sponsor clubs/TD's who have given me stuff over the years or run good events. I make it a point to sponsor the Texas State Championships, Moffit Show, Waterloo, VPO, Mace Man events, Texas 7 events and the TWC.

However, I will not sponsor a tournament that is anit-PDGA. So if a tournament makes it public that it is NOT going to be a PDGA tournament from some stupid reason, I will not sponsor it. I will also not sponsor a tournament that allows "smoking" on public land. (private land is different)

But then that is my choice.

BTW, most large sponsors will not sponsor a non PDGA tournament. But then have you ever tried to get sponsorship???? Ask any of the main TD's in Texas if it makes a differance. Ask Chris Himing, ask John Houck, ask Brian Mace, ask John Edwards, I think you will find all of them will tell you the same thing, they want to know if the tournament is invoved in a national organisation.

Also, some Park departments will not allow tournament unless they are PDGA santioned.

I said one of the reasons it wasn't sanctioned was because that money could be put to better use, quit trying to make it sound like i was "implying" something i wasn't Spin Doctor.



My mistake, I was thinking you had tacked it on to the "some TDs aren't going to sanction this year" thread. Chris is a strong supporter of the PDGA, and runs several sanctioned events each year.

One of the reasons that Chris doesn't sanction all of the TExas 10/7s is because I have asked him not to. He still manages brings in 20 or so golfers at every event that have never played in a Texas 10/7 or PDGA sanctioned event. Quite a few of those end up playing in PDGA events and joining the PDGA. I don't know where these people are coming from, but after one of Chris' events, they are hooked on tournament golf.

I will not speak of this any further.. I have said too much as it is!!



My last word on this: Weak.



lame T. very lame!! Do you feel better about yourself now , senor holier than thou!!

[
I don't think Chris would like being grouped with any TDs that are not sanctioning their tournaments because they are upset with the PDGA. Traditionally only the final of the TX7/10 events has been sanctioned, and the series has been very successful at introducing new players to tournament golf. There certainly are events and or series that benefit the PDGA without being sanctioned themselves. But to imply that the TX7 isn't sanctioned because the TD is upset with the PDGA is misleading.


I said one of the reasons it wasn't sanctioned was because that money could be put to better use, quit trying to make it sound like i was "implying" something i wasn't Spin Doctor. :D



:p :p :p lmao!!

btw, Chris has looked several times at making all the Texas 7 tournaments PDGA, he wanted to get a sponsor to cover the PDGA fees last time I talked to him about it

why would he not use his $$ is it not worth it? but if someone else wants to cover it than he would??? :confused: sounds kinda like Texas state doubles. there is alot of double talk from up NORTH!!!!

I play at least 5-6 sanctioned events a year. I'm a member of the pdga and pay my dues. Is that not enough support? The events we hold locally support our dg community. The repairs and replacement of baskets on courses that are over a decade old can get expensive and the pdga does not help us. Our club has to purchase the courses in our area. The city only allows us to use their parks. So you can see the costs involved in maintaining our courses as well as any new courses. Tyrrell park was ravaged by hurricane Rita and pretty much was a totla lost, 8 baskets destroyed by the hurricane and debris removal. We had 17 trees laid down on just one fairway and baskets were slammed and twisted into some abstract figures. The new head of parks is willing to work with us and we will be applying for some state and federal grants to help us out but alot of those grants cover only half of the costs, so we still have to come up with the rest of the cash. So having said that, we will continue to have our local events that payout with gift certificates and products donated to us and our tournament team will continue to play sanctioned events all over Texas that support the pdga. Are you going to help support a dg community that has been overshadowed by Hurrican Katrina and the worlds tournies?

tobacco is a legal substance that raises billions in tax dollars. Smoking is kinda like the stupid tax. Get rid of smoking and your taxes will go up, personal and corporate.

he was referring to the other smoke

thats already illegal and can't be "allowed" by anyone.

No more thread drift from me.

It is like beating a dead horse.

those that have the wrong idea about things are never going to change no matter how long my posts are, no matter if I do have good points, no matter what I type.

I am done.

are you saying that you'd like to see me banned for adjusting the typing of the word in the Twain quote below so it wouldn't get auto-censored? that's a quote Johnny Carson could have read on mainstream TV in the 1970's.


Idiot, moron, and cretin have been off the list for several days. Conrad hooked me up with the proper permissions so that I can edit the bad word list.

I've been saying that I disagreed with many of the words on that list for quite a while, so you should try not to get so righteous over old news.

Leave that to me. :)

since this may be the last time i am allowed on the message board -- it has been nice knowing you all. Normally i would expect moderators to be lenient if auto-censors are circumvented to convey a message that is not profane or abusive, but given the recent provincial changes regarding the message board -- all bets are off.


Oh man, That was quite a dramatic passage.

dude, you are not even on the right thread for today :D

Why don't you take *** off then? :o

#$*&$!.

Why don't you take *** off then? :o


What are you talking about?

#$*&$! but a little different. I can't get banned for that can I?

are you saying that you'd like to see me banned for adjusting the typing of the word in the Twain quote below so it wouldn't get auto-censored? that's a quote Johnny Carson could have read on mainstream TV in the 1970's.


Idiot, moron, and cretin have been off the list for several days. Conrad hooked me up with the proper permissions so that I can edit the bad word list.

I've been saying that I disagreed with many of the words on that list for quite a while, so you should try not to get so righteous over old news.

Leave that to me. :)



Gary acted as though i should be banned for going around the auto censor to use the Twain quote containing the word idiot.
How am i supposed to know suddenly idiot is no longer deemed an evil word by default here? Do you expect me to type banned words every few hours to see if they've been taken off the list? :eek: I posted the quote partly to try and lobby for the change.

Thank you for taking a reasonable stance on such words. Where have you been anyway? gathering pop bottles to redeem for Roc-buying cash? :D

Thank you for taking a reasonable stance on such words.

It's not a problem. I might be delusional, but I actually believe that I am quite reasonable. Others may disagree, and I have no problem with them disagreeing. I fully support their right to disagree with everything.


Where have you been anyway? gathering pop bottles to redeem for Roc-buying cash? :D

Something like that... :D

#$*&amp;$! but a little different. I can't get banned for that can I?


That term/reference is banned for a very clear and distinct reason. Terry even explained it all again just a few posts ago. You can certainly disagree with it being censored.

But....to intentionally circumvent the filter in order to promote that organization is not any different than misspelling swear words. I suggest you PM or email Terry and/or Theo if you wish to argue logically the merits of changing the PDGA's stance on that org.

I'm just saying that another organization's name shouldn't be banned. The PDGA's isn't banned on thiers. I'll just keep using *** instead. Is that what you meant by the misspelling thing? If so i will edit the post.

Mike Crump Mike Kernan

Just seeing if those were on the bad words list too. :D

Just seeing if those were on the bad words list too. :D



:D :eek: :D:eek: :D :D

I'm just saying that another organization's name shouldn't be banned. The PDGA's isn't banned on thiers. I'll just keep using *** instead. Is that what you meant by the misspelling thing? If so i will edit the post.


I think it is pretty clear that members of the PDGA BOD (Terry) have very clear and distinct reasons for the official PDGA stance on that organization. (Not that it really matters, but I personally agree with that stance 100%.)

It is not a secret. Please do not use PDGA resources (that means this DISCussion board) to promote that group. If you were paying attention, you would remember the great lengths that promoters of that other org went to in order to disrupt this board with the apparent intention of making this place unusable. There was also a lot of extremely venomous postings by the founder of that group that were flat out anti-PDGA, and IIRC they were at times calling for the destruction of the PDGA.

The PDGA, IMHO, is not being unreasonable at all in their stance. When someone declares themself your enemy and then demostrates that intent, you do not open your arms and offer them a hug. You end up with a busted spleen acting like that.

If that other org is in fact promoting disc golf, I hope they have great success in helping to grow the sport we all love. But they'll have to do that over there without the support fo the PDGA. That is by their own choosing.

Please do not try to promote them or their website here.

Dang that was sanctimoniuos sounding.

but the subsequent self-critique was quite magnaminous ;)

I wasn't promoting them I was just saying that it is wrong to not allow them to be mentioned here. The PDGA should not be so insecure and try to throw that org behind and iron curtain as if this was a communist dictatorship.

BTW Rhett, it was not the other org but Mike who did all of those things. On that "bad" site Mike still trashes the PDGA from time to time and I usually argue and try to talk some sense into him, but this usually doesn't work.

I feel the PDGA has a lot of things going for it but the other guys are doing pretty good so far even if it is on a more localized area. I am not promoting just stating my opinion.

but the subsequent self-critique was quite magnaminous ;)


:D

The PDGA should not be so insecure and try to throw that org behind and iron curtain as if this was a communist dictatorship.


Did you read my post? They chose their stance and, IMHO, the PDGA is quite reasonable in their reaction.

Do you disagree with that statement?

Why should a whole group of people be punished for a single person's actions? Also the majority of that sites users are PDGA members.

Oh yeah so what you are saying is that the PDGA is actually going lower than Mike did.

Why should a whole group of people be punished for a single person's actions? Also the majority of that sites users are PDGA members.


A single person took the course of declaring themself an enemy of the PDGA. That single person then set out on a course of action that proved they were serious.

That person then formed the org in question.

I speak only for myself and am not a PDGA policy maker. But I have to ask you: why do you think the PDGA's stance on that org is an issue? Do you not remember how and why it was formed?

I do remember but I think the PDGA should be the better party and not try to wipe out that org or time period from its record. It kinda reminds me of a guy named Joseph Stalin. I did tell you I liked history right?

I have posted and even given ideas to ***, but I agree with the PDGA policy on links to there site. The *** was/is anti PDGA because of who started it and basicly runs it. I have not posted or even read the *** web site but can tell you for a fact that they do DELETE posts and have banned several screen names. (mostly because I was banned for a small time)

BTW, I was banned for disagreeing with MC and pointing out that he was doing exactly what the he complained the PDGA did.

I basicly lost interest in the site when there were never any new post except by you and MTL. No reason to read those :D

MTL actually has a really cool documentary area. Also I am pretty tired of Mike's opinions about the PDGA but then again he does not represent the org as a whole.

I have gone against him several times and he has never "banned" me. I though he said yours was a "password" problem.

Why dosen't gateway advertise innova on their web site? There are certainly conflicts of interest. sounds like whats going on here. :confused:

Some of the times I though I was banned was a password problem, but he did ban me at least once. (I think it was twice)

I don't disagree with everything he was saying, I disagree with how he was saying it. That, and his actions on this board. I mean he is the reason this board is now members only. We can fully blame him for that.

But they do not ban anything to do with Innova. I know Dave mac isn't like that and he has offered to help all the newer companies with anything they could need. Then again I don't know if Innova would do the same.

Yea, like I am going to put Pizza Hut, Papa Johns and Dominoes coupons in front of my store.

Yea, like I am going to put Pizza Hut, Papa Johns and Dominoes coupons in front of my store.



looks like it's time to visit mr jim's :D

Yea, like I am going to put Pizza Hut, Papa Johns and Dominoes coupons in front of my store.



But the PDGA is supposed to be in this for the good of the sport. So if the unnamed site is trying to promote the sport then why would you hinder them? Also the places you named are in competition for personal profit. if that is what the upper people in the PDGA are trying to get then I guess Mike was right.

helping out friendly competition to support the sport is one thing, it drives the technology we throw today. what has happened with the "***" case seems like a serious conflict in interest and its obvious why the pdga has taken the stance they have taken.

So what it boils down to is the PDGA let ONE guy get under thier skin so much that they have become insecure enough to censor another organization's name. I mean does the PDGA feel threatened? IMO they shouldn't and it is actions like this that show the core of our organization.

you still do not understand the conflict of interest? Take a step back and look at the big picture.

I understand the conflict but I still don't feel that is going to hurt the PDGA. I need to hit the sack.

Goodnight guys.

its why you don't let a fox in the hen house.

Because of Grunion (aka Mike Crump), everyone needs a PDGA number in order to post here. Every non-member who used to post on this message board was basically punished because of one person. I find it hard to believe that the very people who are not allowed to post here because of Mike's actions, would turn around and support his organization.

I think the PDGA is correct in not allowing links to Mike's organization based on his words and actions here. His organization should not benefit from PDGA resources in any way shape or form.

I also think the PDGA was wrong in allowing only members to post. There aren't even any addeed benefits to the site. :confused:

There is a benefit. When Mitch, Chris, and B posted unwanted stuff, they got banned instead of everyone losing the ability to change screen names or signatures or some other measure meant to stop one poster that affected every user on the board.

That's a definite plus in my book.

can someone send me the list so I dont get Banned again. :D:eek: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Just send me $5 and it will buy you immunity. Everyone is invited to participate.

A lot of laws federal and state are the result of one persons actions. There were problems with some posters not just one person. But that person was the straw that broke the camels back. The org in question is just a message board. There are other forums out there that are not banned, just the one that has done damage to the pdga. I understand some of the questions mike had but the way he went about trying to get his answers was not the way to go. There are open records and audits that can be performed. You don't just go around slamming the pdga because you don't like the answers you get or don't get. We have had to ban people or I should say a person from our local gtdg website because of his mouth so I can definatly understand the ban on mike and his org. I still can't figure out why some people don't get it. If the tone changes and time goes by this conflict could be resolved but it aint gonna happen anytime soon. like I said, it will take time. There is nothing wrong with posting on the other site and I applaud the opening of any sites that can push dg further into the mainstream but this instance came about in a bad way.

Yesterday I logged on and it showed my rating and rank under my screen name, now its gone. whats up? that was really cool.Is there a setting I turned on or off?

Yesterday I logged on and it showed my rating and rank under my screen name, now its gone. whats up? that was really cool.Is there a setting I turned on or off?

Are you joking? There is another thread for that. It is probably about 50 pages long if you use default settings.

I did not know that. I'll go check my profile and see if I cant get it back. Thanks. There is a lot of thread drift on this thread and I just noticed after my first post this morning so I thought Id throw it out there. I wasn't sure if they took one of my earlier posts seriously and did away with the rating system.

it is gone thanks to a BOD member who didn't like us seeing his low rating :o

Yesterday I logged on and it showed my rating and rank under my screen name, now its gone. whats up? that was really cool.Is there a setting I turned on or off?



the unfortunate details are right here (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=514500&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=3&vc=1)

(scroll down to near the bottom of that page and start there)

It figures. I betmost of the posters on this thread have a higher rating than the old farts in charge. I'll see if I can't look up the BOD and post a list on a new thread of their rating and see how they improve over the year.It will probably pretty humbling to them, but the truth will set you free!!!!!!! :cool:

If it makes you feel better to make Board member John Chapman the villain here, so be it. I know he can take it. However, there were other email complaints to the PDGA office, plus the server issues, that lead to the reversal. I think if the usual process of checking with others for their comments about proposed changes that impact members was followed, perhaps this incident wouldn't have played out this way. Seems everyone's so touchy these days and quick to assign blame.

Where can I find out whos on the board and their screen names? I guess I'll have to search the threads and click on them. it may take some time and I gotta go to work. I'll work on it tonight.

if contributions to disc golf in terms of work were rated, the ratings would be a lot different. i want the ratings up there as a window onto where a person is in terms of disc golf skills. That has little impact on whether or not someone is qualified to be a leader of the PDGA and do a good job of it. And those in leadership positions should point that out imo rather than ask that the info be hidden behind multiple mouse clicks.

This tendency to not be inclusive and not let the light too readily shine on factual numbers does concern me. how are we to grow the membership if we charge a $40 cover fee to let newbies talk to the membership on the message board? any cover fee is short-sighted and over-charging.

if you feel a section of the board where non-members can't post is warranted -- make it so. but it should be our privilege to have non-members participate on our DISCussion board. The ratings and rankings would then be one perk becoming a member would entail. those who weren't members could have a line reading "not a PDGA member" or something...

No blame, its just was cool to see that info.Now with this I want to know what the leaders of the org that I am a member of are rated at. it just will let me know how good a player they are and whether or not they even play. I think it would add to the credibility of some of the posters on the discussion board. Me with an 890 something rating probably should not be giving advice on how to throw or play the game on the board and if one of the bod members were to give me tourney advice or technique advice I'd like to know what they shoot. Like I said, the truth will set you free. If you get a lot of emails complaining about removing this will the pdga crumble to the majority or will they just keep trying to keep the minority happy? I'll send an email in tonight with a complaint and then post that email on a thread. if everyone does this we will see just how many really care that their rating was shown. As for the server, it shouldnt tax it anymors that some of the simple avatars under the screen names.- just a thought from a due paying, tournament playing proud pdga member.

I just went back a few pages and checked all the posters ratings. Dude, Matt I didn't know your rating was that high. dude your playing freakin good. I'm gonna have to get more consistant with my play. I think I could get my rating to at least the 920's this year if I get to play more in tourneys. Too bad I can't turn in some of my casual rounds.

Too bad I can't turn in some of my casual rounds.





Yeah really...then you could move back to Rec where you have a sporting chance... :D

I'll make it easy and post a list of BOD and staff ratings. I usually do this anyway for the Summit doubles pairings tomorrow afternoon after their meetings, which I unfortunately have to miss this year.

Here we go. Pretty good distribution among divisions other than no females. Staffer Lorrie Gibson doesn't play.

<table border="1"><tr><td> Rating</td><td>Last name</td><td>Position</td><td>Division
</td></tr><tr><td>972</td><td>Yoo</td><td>BOD</td><td>MPM
</td></tr><tr><td>947</td><td>Hoeniger</td><td>Staff</td><td>MPG
</td></tr><tr><td>946</td><td>Gillis</td><td>Staff</td><td>MPO
</td></tr><tr><td>940</td><td>May</td><td>BOD</td><td>MPS
</td></tr><tr><td>932</td><td>Gentry</td><td>Staff</td><td>MPO
</td></tr><tr><td>924</td><td>Calhoun</td><td>BOD</td><td>MG1
</td></tr><tr><td>923</td><td>Pozzy</td><td>BOD</td><td>MM1
</td></tr><tr><td>895</td><td>Decker</td><td>BOD</td><td>MG1
</td></tr><tr><td>882</td><td>Roddick</td><td>Advisor</td><td>MPG
</td></tr><tr><td>878</td><td>Chapman</td><td>BOD</td><td>MA2
</td></tr><tr><td>766</td><td>Lyksett</td><td>BOD</td><td>MA3
</td></tr><tr><td> </tr></td></table>

Knowing that atleast 5 of the 7 BoD members are over 40, 3 of those are over 50, helps me understand some of why alot of players don't see eye to eye with the BoD. Not saying there is anything wrong with it.

Btw, Kirk Yoo is way to good of a disc golfer to be on the BoD ;) :D

Since the BOD positions are rarely contested, it's not like incumbency and fat campaign funds have anything to do with the age distribution, just who volunteers.

It appears i'm too good to be on the BOD.

Of course, we'll have other committee volunteers presenting at the Summit with ratings of 986, 998 and 1013.

While I do think there is some brother-in-lawism(which can be said for most groups that run things), I was talking about the generation gap. I (28 yrs old) rarely see eye to eye with my Dad(50 yrs old) and even less with my Grandfather(70 yrs old). Knowing that the BoD is mostly (if not all) over 40 helps explain why alot of members do not see things the way they do.

The interesting thing is that the "youngsters" will see it more our way when they get to our current ages and wonder what they were thinking when they were your age. That will never change as long as experience is your teacher. :D

Yeah but by the time the youngsters are your age, they won't even be able to remember what they experienced in life :o:D

Huh?

BTW, Brenner's no spring chicken if you're looking for youth on the BOD.

:D

He hides it under that hat :D

Pat thinks alot like me is why i support him(well atleast on the mess bored he does).

"Not a spring chicken" ...my grandpa used to say that alot :)
.
.
.
.


(ok i can stop with the "old" cracks.....just boring today on the board, compared to yesterday anyway)

That's how we geezers speak in code with expressions like "spring chicken" so youngsters have to Google them to understand. It's not unlike having to look up someone's rating/ranking instead of having it by their posts... :D

(How 'bout that segue? Yeah, baby)

Why is it that the PDGA won't let "Hooters" sponsor the Am Worlds but they let "Boobs" into the Pro Worlds? :confused: ;)

Perhaps because one word is suggestive slang and the other is more of a medical term? I heard it used on Grey's Anatomy the other night. :)

So if I owned a door knocker company and I called it "Knockers" I guess I would be shut out too. ;)

Why is it that the PDGA won't let "Hooters" sponsor the Am Worlds ....



I missed that one. What was the official reasoning behind that? :confused:

Why is it that the PDGA won't let "Hooters" sponsor the Am Worlds ....



I missed that one. What was the official reasoning behind that? :confused:



I was at one of the Worlds meetings here in Tulsa awhile back and it was brought up that we were told that "Hooters" did not display the "family" image the PDGA was looking for. Yet I often see independant beer company's sponsoring other PDGA local events. :confused:

There's a difference between a major and a local event in terms of policy. Even though the Board is currently all men, they respect the preferences of women players and mothers who object to some sponsors, not only based on their own sensibilities, but for their Junior players that many bring with them to Am Worlds.

I think most Jrs would like the idea of have Hooters sponsor the event. :D

Of course, that's why most mothers would object! :D

I am fairly certain that Hooters has sponsored other PDGA events before. I would have no problem bringing my family to Hooters and I always see families at Hooters when I have been there. I don't think the PDGA is at a point where they should be that picky. I could understand not accepting sponsorship from some "smoke" shop or something but I dont get the Hooters rejection. :confused:

Could this be that generation gap thing I was talking about Chuck?

Who's to say the Board didn't make their decision while meeting there? (There's one on Augusta) :) The generation issue is definitely a factor because it has to do with wisdom and respecting minority opinions.

(I'm sorry I had more that might have been the best post of the year but had to censor myself before Rhett popped a cork deciding how to handle it)

Why is it that the PDGA won't let "Hooters" sponsor the Am Worlds ....



I missed that one. What was the official reasoning behind that? :confused:


Did Chuck just confirm that this actually happened? The rare times that I have this "rumor" addressed the official word has always been "there was no such offer".

Oh wait, that was the "beer sponsor for pro Worlds" rumor.

So did we actually turn down Hooters as a sponsor? IMO that would be a mistake.

(I'm sorry I had more that might have been the best post of the year but had to censor myself before Rhett popped a cork deciding how to handle it)


You should PM me with it. :)

I have no knowledge other than what people have posted here including anything regarding the alleged sponsor that wasn't approved for PW2005 that was discussed a while back.

Is that your "official" stance :)

Don't make Rhett pop a cork in your #$*&$!.

Despite my outsider/insider position, I probably only get any direct scoop on maybe 1/4 of the things you see going on unless I dig. This sponsor issue I heard here first.

Where did you here it second and what did they say? :D

No "seconds" yet. I would have gotten them at the Summit if I didn't have to cancel my trip and sit here waiting for heart surgery in a few days.

I thought I heard a disclaimer out of Tulsa that the supposed sponsor rejection never happened. The wording of the denial was very specific in that an offer for sponsorship was not received and therefore not rejected. It may be that the idea was brought up, and the sponsor was never officially approached.

Hope your heart surgery goes well and is nothing too serious.

Me too. Angioplasty to get a few stents is fortunately pretty routine these days.

I do remember but I think the PDGA should be the better party and not try to wipe out that org or time period from its record. It kinda reminds me of a guy named Joseph Stalin. I did tell you I liked history right?


Please explain how the PDGA is trying to wipe out Mike Crump's org. There are plenty of examples how Mike Crump tried to harm the PDGA.

"There are plenty of examples how Mike Crump tried to harm the PDGA."


what did he do?? can you list some of them?

To anybody that would reject Hooters restaurant because of their fragile sensabilities ---- when driving down the road, do you make your children cover their eyes when you drive past the very visible and prominent Hooters' signs? Or do you use any questions your children might have about the conotation as an opportunity to instill good values in them?

For every woman who is offended by the restaurant, there's another woman who was able to pay her way through college because of her employment at that establishment.

Oh, by the way, you do realize that my nickname has absolutely nothing to do with farm animals, right?

Is it the position of a board full of men that some women might be offended by having this mega-corporation as a sponsor?

Because, if it is, then that's just crazy talk.

Even if it is just a hypothetical and Hooters has not yet been officially rejected by the BOD --- I think it's important to know the BOD's official policy on this matter before some unfortunate TD spends any valuable time establishing a meaningful business relationship with a potential sponsor only to have the BOD prohibit it.

I thought I heard a disclaimer out of Tulsa that the supposed sponsor rejection never happened. The wording of the denial was very specific in that an offer for sponsorship was not received and therefore not rejected. It may be that the idea was brought up, and the sponsor was never officially approached.



Actually I believe you are correct in that an offer from Hooters to sponsor AM2006 was not received. What I heard at an early club meeting was basically that someone within our club had inside contacts within the business and was willing to approach Hooters but the PDGA told them not to go there due to the unfavorable image Hooters sponsorship might cast on this national event. Any further approach was dropped at that point. I guess I can understand some of the reasoning behind it.

Is there any possibility that some narrow minded citizen might drive by the park and think this PDGA member is a dope smoking hippie?

http://www.morleyfield.com/pics/pic0106.jpg

I don't see it but that's just me. :cool:

Can anyone else vouch for this guy? :confused:

Too late, first impression by John C. Public has already been made. :(

Better put him on the undesirable player list. :o;) :D

Is it ironic that the Competition Director for the PDGA doesn't have a very competitive rating?



Just as ironic as no one with a rating over 1000 volunteering to serve on the Board? No, that would be typical, not ironic. At least there are two guys over 1000 rating on the Competition Committee.

As far as Hooters, I don't believe there's a specific policy against them or any other potentially controversial sponsors, just how it's done. As much as some people might want Hooters employees handing out final awards and tending the tap on the course, I don't see it happening at a sanctioned major. I know many, many sanctioned events where awards have been given out at bars, probably even at a Hooters, with no controversy.

We don't know the details of this scenario, if there are any. But I doubt there would be any fuss if Hooters simply had an ad or coupon in an Am Worlds player pack or the program.

Hooters use to sponsor my tournament, we even tried to get a few of the girls to hand out prizes, but it never worked out. No one ever complained.

Hooters also sponsored the Texas 10's the first few years. Remember the Hooters disc?? I think I have one somewhere in my stash.

BTW, my wife is dead set against ever eating at Hooters. We ate there one time at the 92 Am worlds. She does not even let me eat there even though they have some of the best Burgers around. (even when I pointed out that on Saturdays Kids eat Free)

(I think I may hit up The Gas Pipe for sponsorship this year :D)

Is there any possibility that some narrow minded citizen might drive by the park and think this PDGA member is a dope smoking hippie?


They would just stare and admire that great looking well-tuned athlete in action.

Like many others, you would probably be surprised when I turned down the offer of a beer and a joint. I don't partake in either, and I'm not in a band.

...nor Hair Club for Men

I already knew that about you Rhett. :cool:....

I already knew that about you Rhett. :cool:....


It needed repeating after you put that suggestion out there.

I wouldn't ask for much sponsorship from Hooters. If they could just play a well produced championship DG DVD on their bigscreen TV and give me and my buddies a discount on wings after the round, I would be happy. :D

Are we still permitted to say:

GO [email protected]@BS! (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=22722)

Well at least my rating is better than a couple of thos guys!!! :o

hooters is a legal entity. as a matter of fact hooters airlines is doing quite well. I wonder if women fly hooters? If so, it must not be that offensive.
I wonder it the stewardess wear the skimpy little outfits? I'd definatly fly hooters if so. What if mcdonalds wanted to sponsor? they make people fat and that is more offensive to me than a little t-n-a!!!!!!! Also offensive to me is the blantant discrimination of a corporation looking to support our sport. I could see if it were larry flint, but hooters come on I love their buffalo chicken sandwich as well as the beer that flows from their taps. Also everytime I go there to eat, I look around and see women patronizing the establishment. They must be lesbiens or just not offended. which is it oh leaders? Why do we walk on eggshells. Id like to see the bod get a spine and quite trying to be so pc. That really offends me as well as the descrimination involved.

Don't let burger king sponsor an event cuz that king freaks me out. Im scared I might wake up to him trying to serve me the big omlet thing or jumping out from behind a tree on the course.

Terry the pirates referance to the swift boat veterans really really offended me. should he be banned for a day or something?

Easy el. You are making a lot of great points about The Burger King versus the Hooters girls.

Don't go off the deep end when you are in the middle of making a lot of sense. :)

I know, I know. Its just political correctness and the bs that goes with it gets to me.

If its good for the goose its good for the gander. People take offense to all kinds of things and we are all alot stronger than that. If your thin skinned maybe move to France or something, I don't know. I have a thick enough hide that not much will offend me unless its blatant discrimination whether racial gender or whatever. I'll try to stay more composed in the future.
Thanks for thinking I was making some good points though. :D

Everybody I know thinks that the Burger King "King" is kind of scary. :eek:....I don't want him showing up at my house in the morning either :( ;)

OK I guess thats a second for banning them from sponsorship. Freaky kings are out. :cool:

He is worse than those overly freindly McDonalds benches with Ronald trying to put his arm around you like you're on a first date or something.

see where political correctness can get you? :oIn the future we will run out of corporate sponsors cuz you could always find someone with something they find offensive.

I'll take Hooters girls handing out trophies over The Burger King every time.

Hmm. I might even give up Hooters girls handing out trophies if that meant a guarrentee that The King never would.

Another strike against The King.