Anybody???

Ok..... It's been 15 days since the last update on the waitlist.
Anyone know what is happening with it?? Is there somewhere else the
Waitlist is being updated? Would appreciate some info please.

Thanks

I wonder if Josh Anthon will get in from the waiting list.

I wonder if Josh Anthon will get in from the waiting list.

I just noticed him on the wait list when you posted that.

WOW!!! How does that happen?? This guy is one of the strongest players I have ever seen.
And he is down there too. This is the reason they really need to consider opening another course to open the pro field up a bit for more players. They probably can accomodate every "PRO" on the wait list. oh well, after seeing one of the best players on the waitlist that far down really dwarfs alot of my friends concern of a updated waitlist..lol.
Still need an update though...that would be nice..... ;)

I wonder if Josh Anthon will get in from the waiting list.I just noticed him on the wait list when you posted that.

WOW!!! How does that happen??
He probably didn't register in the 50+ days that registration was open to invitees.
:-|

I just noticed him on the wait list when you posted that.

WOW!!! How does that happen?? This guy is one of the strongest players I have ever seen.
And he is down there too. This is the reason they really need to consider opening another course to open the pro field up a bit for more players. They probably can accomodate every "PRO" on the wait list. oh well, after seeing one of the best players on the waitlist that far down really dwarfs alot of my friends concern of a updated waitlist..lol.
Still need an update though...that would be nice..... ;)

Why should he get special treatment? he didnt register in time. others did. if your that good wouldnt you think ahead? I just dont get the entitled pro crap. why is he anymore deserving than a junior who qualified and didnt have the money to sign up right away. seriously...

I just called and spoke to someone at the PDGA office and he was very helpful in answering questions about the waitlist. He said that not much has changed so far, which is why they haven't posted an updated list. MPO has only had 2 spots open up and he mentioned that juniors is the only division that has changed much. I don't know anything about any other division though, sorry.

Why should he get special treatment? he didnt register in time. others did. if your that good wouldnt you think ahead? I just dont get the entitled pro crap. why is he anymore deserving than a junior who qualified and didnt have the money to sign up right away. seriously...

Uhhhhh... Where did you see special treatment??? I am just saying that I am really surprised that he isn't already signed up....same thing with Philo, he too is on the waitlist.
I am in no way saying anybody should get special treatment.

I just called and spoke to someone at the PDGA office and he was very helpful in answering questions about the waitlist. He said that not much has changed so far, which is why they haven't posted an updated list. MPO has only had 2 spots open up and he mentioned that juniors is the only division that has changed much. I don't know anything about any other division though, sorry.

Thanks for the info... It was updated today.

Uhhhhh... Where did you see special treatment??? I am just saying that I am really surprised that he isn't already signed up....same thing with Philo, he too is on the waitlist.
I am in no way saying anybody should get special treatment.

When you said they should open up another course, that would be special treatment. why not open a course for the women, Ams, whoever. Its not fair to change things at this point in the game just so these slackers can play. Josh obviously had enough time to register. just didnt.

A better solution to the problem would be to create a true qualifying system and only allow those who qualify.

It may also not be the worst idea to Prohibit Amateur overflow into the Pro side.....you know....make Pro Worlds only for Pros....

In the past the lack of demand warranted letting anyone into the event but the times are changing.

A better solution to the problem would be to create a true qualifying system and only allow those who qualify.

It may also not be the worst idea to Prohibit Amateur overflow into the Pro side.....you know....make Pro Worlds only for Pros....

In the past the lack of demand warranted letting anyone into the event but the times are changing.


Thanks for clarifying that for our hostile friend there. I wasn't hating on am's or juniors...since My youngest plays juniors as it is. But my 17 yr old plays pro and has been since he was 15 and he is on the wait list. Yes we are bummed just like everybody else but it is what it is. The thing that killed him was the change in the qualifying criteria,(since 2008 anyways) where it used to be a percentage of each state so each state gets a decent chance to represent. it was about performance level not who hits the most stops in the prior year. Some states don't have alot of pro's in their events so points are tough to come by, the Amatuer divisions always has a great showing. On top of low pro attendance we only have B tier events here. It gets a little expensive to travel with 2 kids playing not counting playing myself. I am a strong believer in keeping in your respective division, especially in majors such as this years worlds. I do feel like being a registered pro has no benefit at this point but hopefully down the road the demand will force good changes in qualifying criteria. I guess it comes from a professional bowlers perspective of having to do your time qualifying in rabbit sqauds to get a chance to even get into a regional to qualify for the tour. But even then the money is well earned and it isn't much considering the work and effort involved. Thats why I love disc golf so much I guess, I play knowing that it isn't about the money it is about the great time spent with friends and the level of competition that you have a chance to reach..With that said, I still believe everything must be earned through practice , dedication, and most of all, the respect for the game and those around you.

Thanks...I am out

Yes we are bummed just like everybody else but it is what it is. The thing that killed him was the change in the qualifying criteria,(since 2008 anyways) where it used to be a percentage of each state so each state gets a decent chance to represent. it was about performance level not who hits the most stops in the prior year. Some states don't have alot of pro's in their events so points are tough to come by, the Amatuer divisions always has a great showing.

Prior years did have a top 25% criteria... but that criteria also had minimum point thresholds. In 2012 the automatic qualifier point thresholds were lowered to what the past year's top 25% thresholds were.

So last year a top-25%-in-the-state Pro needed 500 points. This year they still need 500 points... but just don't have to be in the top 25%.


2011 Pro Invitation Criteria (http://www.pixsvr.com/pics/pdgasignup/2011/2011ProWorlds-InvitedPlayersAlphabetical.pdf)

Top Point earners on 2010 PDGA Tour:
Automatic Qualification: MPO 1000 pts, MPM 500 pts, MPG / MPS 100 pts, FPO / FPM / FPG 20 pts

Other players who finished in the Top 25% of Points earners within their State/Province/Country:
Minimum Standards: MPO 500 pts, MPM 250 pts, MPG / MPS 50 pts, FPO / FPM / FPG 10 pts

Senior Divisions - all male Pro members born 1950 or earlier who played a Tour event in 2009 & all female Pro members born 1960 or earlier who played a Tour event in 2010

2012 Pro Invitation Criteria

(http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/2012_PDGA_Worlds_Invites_-_Professionals.pdf) Top Point earners on 2011 PDGA Tour:
Minimum Standards: MPO 500 pts, MPM 250 pts, MPG / MPS 50 pts, FPO / FPM / FPG 10 pts

Senior Divisions - all male Pro members born 1951 or earlier who played a Tour event in 2011 & all female Pro members born 1961 or earlier who played a Tour event in 2011


2011 Am Invitation Criteria (http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/2011AmWorlds-InvitedPlayersAlphabetical.pdf)

Top Point earners on 2010 PDGA Tour:
Automatic Qualification: MA1 1000 pts, MM1 400 pts, MG1 100 pts, FW1 25 pts, FM1 25 pts, MJ1 300 pts, MJ2 200 pts, FJ1 10 pts, FJ2 10 pts.

Other players who finished in the Top 25% of Points earners within their State/Province/Country:
Minimum Standards: MA1 500 pts, MM1 200 pts, MG1 50 pts, FW1 15 pts, FM1 15 pts, MJ1 150 pts, MJ2 100 pts

Younger Divisions - all male and female Amateur members born 1997 or later who played in a Tour event in 2010.

Senior Divisions - all male Amateur members born 1950 or earlier & all female Amateur members born 1960 or earlier who played in a Tour event in 2010.

International - all current Overseas Amateur members (country not in list USA, Canada) who completed a Tour event in 2010.

2012 Am Invitation Criteria (http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/2012_PDGA_Worlds_Invites_-_Amateurs.pdf)

Top Point earners on 2011 PDGA Tour:
Minimum Standards: MA1 500 pts, MM1 200 pts, MG1 50 pts, FW1 15 pts, FM1 15 pts, MJ1 150 pts, MJ2 100 pts, FJ1 6 pts, FJ2 6 pts.

Younger Divisions - all male and female Amateur members born 1998 or later who played in a Tour event in 2011.

Senior Divisions - all male Amateur members born 1951 or earlier & all female Amateur members born 1961 or earlier who played in a Tour event in 2011.

International - all current Overseas Amateur members (country other than USA or Canada) who completed a Tour event in 2011.

>>ERicJ
I didn't know what the criteria was in those Past years, but makes sense. Last time we were able to go was in 2008 so I am kinda lost on past criteria and both of my boys were juniors too, so that might be where I am missing the point criteria.
And I believe at that time juniors that played in a tour event automatically qualified without a point criteria. Still, doesn't change the fact that where we live pro attendance makes it tough to qualify even at 500 points. Just wish we could go to a national tour event once a year to get to that point stage. Just expensive to travel with the family and we try to save all year for a vacation so that we are able to attend. But it is what it is and we will keep trying every year. ;)
Our position this year is a difficult choice, I am in and my youngest is in but my 17 yr old is on the wait list. As bad as we want to attend the worlds this year it is tough to leave him behind and just us to go. Guess that is the dad in me.. Lol

They still need volunteers so perhaps your son could try to enjoy being a helper? Many people find they enjoy that experience as much as playing for a change of pace.

Did more players qualify and receive invites this year compared to previous years? As I look at the 2011 and 2012 criteria the points needed seem to be about half in 2012 as they were in 2011. For example, if the 2011 criteria were used this year I would not have received an invite. I played in one A tier last year and was able to get enough points there to qualify. (and no, I'm not giving my spot up!)

If appreciably more players overall received invites this year than in years past, that might help explain why many top players weren't signed up before the field filled. They were used to waiting a little longer based on past years. In our current tough economy, many players don't want to spend the money sooner than necessary. They just miscalculated on what was necessary.

Did more players qualify and receive invites this year compared to previous years?
You can click the links in my previous post to see the breakdown of invitees by criteria but here are the totals:

Pro 2011: 1536
Pro 2012: 2019

Am 2011: 3121
Am 2012: 4400

If appreciably more players overall received invites this year than in years past, that might help explain why many top players weren't signed up before the field filled. They were used to waiting a little longer based on past years.
IIRC, most Pro divisions didn't fill until just before the open registration "deadline" anyway.

Does anyone know if there will be player check in on Monday the 16th? I saw on one schedule that it looked like there would be but on another it didn't list Monday. I just need to know if I must travel down a day earlier then I had planed.

Does anyone know if there will be player check in on Monday the 16th? I saw on one schedule that it looked like there would be but on another it didn't list Monday. I just need to know if I must travel down a day earlier then I had planed.

Yes, you can check in any time prior to the Players Meeting Monday night.

I am coming in on Saturday July 14th and am looking to get some practice in on Nevin Saturday and Sunday. Will this be possible? I see the mixed doubles is going down Saturday but did not dig to find out what courses are being used. Thanks for any info.

I am coming in on Saturday July 14th and am looking to get some practice in on Nevin Saturday and Sunday. Will this be possible? I see the mixed doubles is going down Saturday but did not dig to find out what courses are being used. Thanks for any info.

Bradford has been selected for doubles. Nevin is open for play/practice Sat and Sun.

Bradford has been selected for doubles. Nevin is open for play/practice Sat and Sun.Thanks for the info!

For all you folks making the trip north after Worlds
stop by the historic Duck Golf tournament at Burke Lake
in Virginia. It's the 30th annual!!!

check out the thread at:
http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1467900#post1467900

I noticed it has been about two or three weeks since World's Confirmation Packages were supposed to have been sent out. I have not gotten one yet and was just wondering if they were delayed or if I should try and figure out where mine is.

I noticed it has been about two or three weeks since World's Confirmation Packages were supposed to have been sent out. I have not gotten one yet and was just wondering if they were delayed or if I should try and figure out where mine is.

The packet elements are being finalized now, with the goal of early June release. From the invitation letter:

"Once your entry is confirmed, your name will be posted on the PDGA website for Pro/Am and Doubles events, if you entered both. Confirmation packages will be mailed in early June and will include course maps, directions, detailed schedule of events and other helpful information. The preliminary schedule and area map are included in this packet to assist you with planning."

On qualification and field size... (This is general Worlds theory, not criticism of any current or past methodologies)

I'm a Master, but I'd like to see the Open Divisions (Advanced and MPO) designed to field a maximum number of players. If there are three courses played in Open, it should be 216 players, if there are 5 courses for ams, the field size should be 360. These fields should never be capped to allow for other field sizes. Basically, this is the top division, it should field the maximum possible number of players. All those who get locked out of their respective Pro fields CAN play Open... it's OPEN to everyone, so we shouldn't be capping that particular field... ever. The other fields should be created based off of tour numbers and reasonable logic, course logistics, etc...

I am aware that the older you get, the more free time (and money) to take a week+ long trip to Worlds... But I think we are sacrificing a huge Open division in favor of larger fields for protected divisions.

But I think the Open division should truly fill the courses that they play. Larger fields will equal larger payouts, deeper payouts, and ANYONE can fill a spot in Open. Same with Advanced. But they have no problems filling an advanced field...

just my $.02

More than 288 in a division will be difficult to handle with the current format for total number of rounds played and handling the shuffle. Any model we've looked for more than four pools ends up where no one from the bottom half of the field after the shuffle can finish any higher than first in the bottom half. So it might as well be a cut other than the bottom half being able to play a few more rounds among themselves.

Larger fields will not produce higher payouts in direct proportion. All pro divisions get 25% cash added regardless of field size. If you increase the field size by 50%, the first place payout goes up about 25%.

OK, thanks Steve Ganz for adding a number next to players registered... it made me realize that the Pro Masters field is currently not listed at the proper limit. Other documents have the field full at 96, not 90 as it is currently.

First it was supposed to be a 108 person field, but due to low early preregistration, that was reduced to 96.

Currently it is listed as a 90 person field. I understand one round the E pool will share Eastway with the FW1 division. There are currently 47 FW1 players, and I assume we should have 48 as the course schedule suggests.

So, am I right in believing that there are 6 MPM spots that SHOULD be available to waitlisters?

Maybe it was an oversight. Perhaps 6 dropped this week and their waitlist replacements are not up to date.

90-72=18 MPM in E-Pool

90+48=138


96-72=24 MPM in E-Pool

96+48=144

How about them six extra pro masters spots? Please?

There are supposed to be 96 Master slots unless something changed.

yes. just thought that was worth noticing so we could get people invites ASAP... It's getting close to the point where it's hard to schedule a week long trip.

Matt

There are a few other divisions that also aren't shown as full. I suspect what's happening is players are withdrawing and the next ones on the waiting list are given a few days to decide and pay up before moving to the next ones on the list.

Thank Steve Ganz for his awesome usability upgrades to the site. This is one of the best ones! Well, this and sorting players by rating... and rounds by rating... and really sorting in general!

Matt

Happy to be of service. :)

I am Debbie Scott, the social media coordinator for the World tournament.

We shared your concerns about The Blake with their management, and below is the response. Also know that the 2012 Worlds Host Committee made sure of The Blake�s suitability before the contract was signed. This is also one of the principal hotels slated for use by delegations to the Democratic National Convention. The reviews do not reflect conditions we will see for the week of 2012 Worlds.

�Thank you for your concerns. Please know that we are currently renovating the entire North Tower of the hotel, which is closed to hotel guests. The recent comments have been about this tower.

�The South Tower, which is a separate tower and the tower 2012 Worlds guests will be in, has been open for a number of years and with the exception of the Beer Garden mentioned in the report, this tower isn't part of the recent comments. The Beer Garden is under construction and is another area also closed to hotel guests.

�The meeting and convention space is open for use, is safe and is not an area to be concerned about. Hot water issues have been addressed with two new boilers.�

Sincerely,
Jerry Lotich,
The Blake Hotel

Thank you for the reply DebbieScott!

The packet elements are being finalized now, with the goal of early June release. From the invitation letter:


Any update here? Early and Mid june have come an gone. Thanks.

Any update here? Early and Mid june have come an gone. Thanks.

Final data sets and graphics for the maps have been completed and package will be sent shortly as soon as PDGA folks verify. Our desire has been to make sure everything is right and it's taken longer than we envisioned. Thanks for your patience.

Final data sets and graphics for the maps have been completed and package will be sent shortly as soon as PDGA folks verify. Our desire has been to make sure everything is right and it's taken longer than we envisioned. Thanks for your patience. Thanks for the info. Jim.

Will there be an update to the registered players list and the waiting list this week? Not much if any activity that I can see since June 1. It is now less than a month till Worlds. I've run events for ten years and I appreciate all the hard work that I know is going on but the people want to know the answer to the big question:

Will I be able to play Worlds in Charlotte this year?

Please update the masses.

Thanks in advance to all involved with this epic event. I have nothing but respect for what you've done thus far. Let's get it done.

Thanks for to all the people involved, from experience, I know you receive more criticism than than appreciation.


I'll be there for close to 2 weeks, I know the Blake and now the Renaissance are the event hotels but they are still a little spendy for a long term stays, for me. Does or is anybody else staying someplace a little less $ that's clean and safe they can recommend.

I'm traveling 4200 miles to NC and still a little nervous I haven't received the official packet. I registered and see my name on the list BUT i'd like to have something in my hand and maybe see maps of the courses. If they haven't been mailed yet, they'll might not make it to Alaska before the the July 4th. Will it be possible to get digital copies when the catalog is ready?

Once again, thanks.

John R.

John R ... get in touch with Curvin Stine out of Pennsylvania ... his wife set me and some of my New England compatriots up with a nice deal at The Drury Northlake ...

BTW ... when will the pre-reg lists be updated?

Hello all

We have a tournament the weekend before worlds in jacksonville nc....if any of you traveling pros would like to play ...please give me a call or message....This is a B-Tier and we are playing two courses..just putting that out there...We are 5 hrs from charlotte...And Thanks

Craig,

Thanks and did, I'll be at the Drurery, also.

John R.

Anyone have a good idea of when the TD will release the Pools for MA1?

I might need to rent a car a little earlier if I am not in a pool with one of the guys I am traveling with. I assume that they are not allowing players to select others to be in a pool with.

The 2012 PDGA Worlds Confirmation Package (http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/confirmation-package) is available, and the enormity of this event is really starting to sink in with me! It took me well over an hour today just to print out all the 2012 PDGA Worlds Schedules, Course Maps, Course Rules, and Course Scorecards for the 14 courses (which include some long & short layouts) I'll be responsible for as Director of Scoring for this event. This is a massive, massive undertaking, and I'm tipping my hat already to the 2012 Worlds Host Committee, the course TDs, PDGA Reps & Marshals, and all the volunteers who are going to be presenting this event in just a few weeks time!

I did not sign up for field events when I first sent my entry in. Can I sign up for field events on check in?

The 2012 PDGA Worlds Confirmation Package (http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/confirmation-package) is available, and the enormity of this event is really starting to sink in with me! It took me well over an hour today just to print out all the 2012 PDGA Worlds Schedules, Course Maps, Course Rules, and Course Scorecards for the 14 courses (which include some long & short layouts) I'll be responsible for as Director of Scoring for this event. This is a massive, massive undertaking, and I'm tipping my hat already to the 2012 Worlds Host Committee, the course TDs, PDGA Reps & Marshals, and all the volunteers who are going to be presenting this event in just a few weeks time!

Thank You Jeff for your dedication to the Scoring Tasks and the coordination of materials. I have been the scoring director for the Beaver State Fling for many years and I know the constant stress you will be under. So thank you again for your selfless act of volunteerism!

:confused:I'll be staying at the BLAKE and am not in a Junior Division
What sort of shuttle/transportation is available to get to courses?:confused:

So last year in California, due to my vacation schedule with work and in order to find the cheapest travel, I was only to play one Worlds course - UCSMB. (The Oaks) While this is a fine course for recreational play, it was one of my least favorite Worlds courses in recent years. Fortunately, I had previously played the world-reknowned DeLaveaga course, but in talking with competitors and fellow staff, I really missed out not being able to play the awesome Ryan Ranch or Pinto Lake courses. At least I got to walk some of the Pinto Lake course during Finals that Saturday.

This year, the challenge is daunting: there are fourteen courses in the Charlotte area being used for competition. I have the advantage of having previously played Hornet's Nest and Kilborne Park, but I'm going to need to make some tough decisions about which courses to check out in the very limited time I have before competition starts. Renaissance Park is absolutely the first priority - it's been a gaping hole in my course resume for many years. Of the remaining courses, in what "must-play" order would you rank the remaining courses? My criteria are primarily challenge, beauty, & diversity, and I'm also favoring the courses which the Open and Pro Masters players will compete on.

I'm thinking the following:

1) Renaissance Park (obviously)
2) Nevin Park (The Nightmare)
3) Bradford Park Long
4) Eastway Park Long
5) Elon Angry Beaver
6) R.L. Smith
7) Idlewild Scrapyard

So, Charlotte locals: while it's extremely doubtful that I'll have time to get through even four of the above seven courses, would you agree with that ranking? Is there something about the Winget Plantation, Sugaw Creek, Elon Eager Beaver, Bailey Road or Reedy Creek courses which are must-plays and I'd be absolutely foolish to miss? :confused:

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/DiscGolf_Ox/Worlds_Volunteer_2012.jpg

I have never played in a worlds before. Needless to say I am excitied and cant wait to get there. I have all so never played any of the courses in Charlotte. I will be leaving VA on 7-12-12 early AM. I should arrive at Hornets Nest no later than 1PM. I am looking for anyone arriving early or any local that may have the time to play a round or two with me the afternoon of the 12th. I am playing in the GM division and Bradford and the Scrapyard are my other 2 courses. Due to Doubles being played at Bradford on Saturday; I plan on playing Bradford on Friday and then the Scrapyard on Saturday. Please message with any contact info that you might be willing to give so i can get in touch with you once i get there.
thanks
Jimmy Stanley

:confused:I'll be staying at the BLAKE and am not in a Junior Division
What sort of shuttle/transportation is available to get to courses?:confused:

Shuttle service is only scheduled for Juniors. There is a ride-sharing FB page:
http://www.facebook.com/2012PdgaWorldsCarPool

and there will be a ride-sharing board at The Blake.

I have never played worlds before. Do we get to find out what pool we are in before we check-in the Sunday/Monday before the event, or will that get sent out soon?

Also I noticed players play Tuesday and Wednesday and then there is a "Great Shuffle". Does that mean the 4-some you are paired with Tuesday morning are the same players you remain with for all 3 rounds before Wednesday night regardless of score?

Thanks for all the hard work.

I have never played worlds before. Do we get to find out what pool we are in before we check-in the Sunday/Monday before the event, or will that get sent out soon?

Also I noticed players play Tuesday and Wednesday and then there is a "Great Shuffle". Does that mean the 4-some you are paired with Tuesday morning are the same players you remain with for all 3 rounds before Wednesday night regardless of score?

Thanks for all the hard work.

The way pool play works, you will be placed in a pool and I am guessing it will be done by rating and I am also guessing that they are waiting on the ratings update next week to place people in a pool or to see if more drop out. You will play in that same pool for the first 3 rounds (Not the same foursome, unless you shoot the same thing every round). After Wed, everyone in your division will have played the same courses and depending on how you shoot you will be placed in a pool.
EX.
Start
Pools MA1
K Top 72 rated
L Next 72
M Third 72
N Remaining
After Shuffle
K top 72 scores through 3 rounds
L Then so fourth down to
M
N

Typically, only the top rated 18 or sometimes 36 Advanced players are placed in the K pool. Everyone else is randomly assigned to one of the four pools.

Spinthrift,
Thanks for keeping on top of all the questions here and the CDGC discussion boards. It has been a HUGE help. Do you know how i would go about registering and paying for the Banquet Wednesday Night? Thanks in advance.

Spinthrift,
Thanks for keeping on top of all the questions here and the CDGC discussion boards. It has been a HUGE help. Do you know how i would go about registering and paying for the Banquet Wednesday Night? Thanks in advance.


Go here:
http://www.pdgasignup.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1330849068

and signup for it - all ancillary things (EXCEPT for singles play) are still available until JULY 6th as stated on the pdgasignup.com forms for Worlds.

Keith

Can I still sign up for the banquet? I missed it when I signed up for the tournament. Or can you buy tickets for it at check-in?

Go here:
http://www.pdgasignup.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1330849068

and signup for it - all ancillary things (EXCEPT for singles play) are still available until JULY 6th as stated on the pdgasignup.com forms for Worlds.

Keith
Thanks Keith!

Just to reiterate what 'Marcwatts' asked on 6/28... Do we get to find out what pool we are in before we check-in the Sunday/Monday before the event, or will that get sent out soon?

Our reason for the inquiry... We have 1 car and 2 players (1-FPG/1-MM1) with very different schedules. We want to figure out who has to find carpooling, but need to know what pool (P or Q) our MM1 player is assigned to.

Please note, we (as event organizers and dg business owners) do realize how hard the staff is working to prepare for such an onslaught, but if any light can be shed on this question it would be appreciated.

Most likely they were waiting for the rating update before sorting the pools. In recent years they have sorted the MA1 pools by rating.

Just got home from a long, hot road trip to Charlotte. Played Eastway (long and short) and Nevin (short and Nightmare) and it was HOT!! I just want to confirm that the rounds the Pro Masters play at Nevin will be shorts and not the Nightmare. Anyone with inside info would be appreciated (pretty sure based on the scorecards I downloaded). Also, I know the worlds staff has thought of this so don't take this the wrong way, but I sure hope they have plenty of watering holes on the courses! I predicted that this worlds would fill back in Jan. and I'm going out on a limb and say this could be the hottest worlds ever.

Just got home from a long, hot road trip to Charlotte. Played Eastway (long and short) and Nevin (short and Nightmare) and it was HOT!! I just want to confirm that the rounds the Pro Masters play at Nevin will be shorts and not the Nightmare. Anyone with inside info would be appreciated (pretty sure based on the scorecards I downloaded). Also, I know the worlds staff has thought of this so don't take this the wrong way, but I sure hope they have plenty of watering holes on the courses! I predicted that this worlds would fill back in Jan. and I'm going out on a limb and say this could be the hottest worlds ever.
Tim,
Great question on Nevin. I have heard that the CDGC has labeled tee pads beign played for worlds with a Blue stripe and W12 painted on them. So not sure if you saw those marking on the shorts or longs out at Nevin.

I'm going out on a limb and say this could be the hottest worlds ever.

I doubt it will be worse than Michigan, Minnesota, Houston or Augusta, but who knows.

And for the record, we are experiencing record heats here in North Carolina right now. Never in our history has it gotten this hot...

Temps are supposed to go back down to the high 80's next week and should remain at sub 95 after that when worlds are here.

Almost every worlds I've played, the pools assignments are online the week before the event. Can't speak for this year, but I've ALWAYS known my pool before my flight.

While a lot of you this will be your first worlds, remember for those of us running it / helping out, it's like are 5th or more.

Info will be very clear and in a timely matter. Trust me. Just be patient!

Is there any update available on the waitlist status? Is there a cutoff when you will stop using the waitlist (or relax the 3-day call window)? The anticipation/anxiety is killing me!

How many make the Semis for MG1 and Advanced?

Not more than 72 Advanced and typically about 35% of MG1 which might mean 36, 38 or 40 depending on ties.

How the hell do I contact PDGA HQ? I need to drop out of the tournament and so other MG1 can get in the tourney but I've searched all over this site and can't find it. Why is this contact not in the links or someplace obvious?

http://www.pdga.com/contact

It's at the top of this website under the search bar labeled "contact"

Contact is now under the More drop down menu so it's a little tougher to find.

Thanks! I didn't want the next person on the waitlist to miss because they did not get informed of the opening in time to travel.

PDGA Phone number is (706)261-6342

I know it's probably a mad house dealing with the waitlist. Especially since people are probably not answering their phones to an 'unknown' number. But...

Anyone know if they will still be going down the waitlist after the scheduled registration close date/time? It's getting really close to my name on that list, and I am definately planning on going if I get a call. It just doesn't look like they'll have time to wait 3 days on this 'batch' of people; more so if they stop calling people today/tonight...:(

I just want to confirm that the rounds the Pro Masters play at Nevin will be shorts and not the Nightmare.
^ any clarification on this post?

According to this map it's the short layout for Worlds but perhaps still a "nightmare" for many:
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/Nevin_Map.pdf
As mentioned several times, you look for the tees marked W12 when practicing.

I know it's probably a mad house dealing with the waitlist. Especially since people are probably not answering their phones to an 'unknown' number. But...

Anyone know if they will still be going down the waitlist after the scheduled registration close date/time? It's getting really close to my name on that list, and I am definately planning on going if I get a call. It just doesn't look like they'll have time to wait 3 days on this 'batch' of people; more so if they stop calling people today/tonight...:(

Answer to this question is on the Home Page TOP story of this website.

Keith

Yes, saw that. Thank you very much Keith. I will be there in person if I don't get a phone call. Not giving up until the rounds start! ;p

Charlotte or bust, baby! Where's the nearest Cracker Barrel to the airport? I want me some southern style breakfast.

I'll be bringing about 40 minis with Montana/inland northwest stamps to trade with people. Gawd I'm getting pumped up :D for this event!!!

"Why is this contact not in the links or someplace obvious?"
Because its the pDGA... Im surprised they don't charge a $1 to see it...

I'll be bringing about 40 minis with Montana/inland northwest stamps to trade with people. Gawd I'm getting pumped up :D for this event!!!

I will have some Funkytown Flyers Minis as well.

Just got home from a long, hot road trip to Charlotte. Played Eastway (long and short) and Nevin (short and Nightmare) and it was HOT!! I just want to confirm that the rounds the Pro Masters play at Nevin will be shorts and not the Nightmare. Anyone with inside info would be appreciated (pretty sure based on the scorecards I downloaded). Also, I know the worlds staff has thought of this so don't take this the wrong way, but I sure hope they have plenty of watering holes on the courses! I predicted that this worlds would fill back in Jan. and I'm going out on a limb and say this could be the hottest worlds ever.

I'm concerned about the heat as well. However as a surviver of the 1999 am worlds in Kansas city I doubt this will be the hottest worlds ever. In 1999 the temps hit 106 with a heat index of 118! The local news was calling it an emergency and pleading with residents to stay indoors, a record number of people in the surrounding areas literally passed away from the heat.

How the hell do I contact PDGA HQ? I need to drop out of the tournament and so other MG1 can get in the tourney but I've searched all over this site and can't find it. Why is this contact not in the links or someplace obvious?

On the top right of this page, AND EVERY OTHER SINGLE PAGE ON THE PDGA WEBSITE, is a search bar which looks like the following:

Search PDGA.com:
<form action="/discussion/showthread.php?t=36126&page=8" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post" id="search-block-form"> <input maxlength="128" name="search_block_form_keys" id="edit-search-block-form-keys" size="15" value="" title="Enter the terms you wish to search for." class="form-text" type="text">
</form>
Underneath that is a link which is clearly marked "Contact (http://www.pdga.com/contact)" which takes you to a page with PDGA phone numbers and contact pages for every single PDGA committee, program and officer.

Again, considering that this Contact (http://www.pdga.com/discussion/../contact) link is found on EVERY SINGLE PAGE ON THE PDGA WEBSITE, I cannot understand how anyone in their right mind could not find this. To me, nothing could be more obvious!

Doubles Events

Saturday, July 14th - 9AM Mandatory Players Meeting, 10AM Tee Off

* 2012 PDGA Worlds Professional Mixed Doubles Registration Lis (http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/94400)t
* 2012 PDGA Worlds Amateur Mixed Doubles Registration List (http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/94401)
* 2012 PDGA Worlds Junior Divisional Doubles Registration List (http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/94402)

Format

The PDGA Worlds Doubles format is designed to ensure that the results accurately reflect a team performance by using both partner�s skills and abilities to contribute to the team�s score. Each partner�s tee shot is also used once on each hole on the course across the two rounds.

Alternate Shot:

* The format for two-thirds of the event is Alternate Shot played on the first six and last six holes of each round.
* The partners trade off each set of six holes for tee off between Round 1 and Round 2.
* Which partner tees off on each hole is designated on the scorecard.

Modified Best Disc:

* The format for the other third of the event is Modified Best Disc on the middle six holes of each round with only one partner teeing off on each hole.
* After a successful tee-off by the designated partner, both partners throw the next shot and the rest of the hole is completed using regular Best Disc format where the team determines which partner�s lie to throw from.
* Which partner tees off on each hole is designated on the scorecard.

Scorecards

* 2012 PDGA Worlds Professional Mixed Doubles Scorecards (http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/course-scorecards/2012-pdga-worlds-professional-mixed-doubles)
* 2012 PDGA Worlds Amateur Mixed Doubles Scorecards (http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/course-scorecards/2012-pdga-worlds-junior-divisional-doubles-scorecards)
* 2012 PDGA Worlds Junior Divisional Doubles Scorecards (http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/course-scorecards/2012-pdga-worlds-junior-divisional-doubles-scorecards)
The Doubles Format rules (http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/events) quoted above are confusing because the verbiage sounds like Modified Best Shot, but the text says "Modified Best Disc". The linked scorecards are also incorrect.

The Doubles Format rules (http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/events) quoted above are confusing because the verbiage sounds like Modified Best Shot, but the text says "Modified Best Disc". The linked scorecards are also incorrect.Here is the scorecard for amateur mixed: http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/course-scorecards/2012-pdga-worlds-amateur-mixed-doubles-scorecards

That format is pretty funky! But I like funky format doubles so it's all good. :D

Here is the scorecard for amateur mixed: http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/course-scorecards/2012-pdga-worlds-amateur-mixed-doubles-scorecards

That format is pretty funky! But I like funky format doubles so it's all good. :D
The scorecards do not clear up any of the confusion as to how the middle six holes are played after the tee shot.

Going by just the scorecard you'd play Best DISC. Going by the text of the website format description you'd play Best SHOT.

I guess we'll have to pay attention at the players' meeting. :p

Modified Best Disc:

* The format for the other third of the event is Modified Best Disc on the middle six holes of each round with only one partner teeing off on each hole.
* After a successful tee-off by the designated partner, both partners throw the next shot and the rest of the hole is completed using regular Best Disc format where the team determines which partner�s lie to throw from.

What is an unsuccessful tee-off?
And what happens in the event of an unsuccessful tee-off?

The problem is the lingo used in ball golf and how it translates (or more accurately, doesn't translate) to the sport of disc golf. The way disc golfers normally do doubles is referred to as "scramble" in ball golf, and the other way is called Best Ball in ball golf.

Given the disc golf terminology "best shot" and "best disc" it's indeed unclear which of the above formats either is referring to. However, the stated goal is that "the PDGA Worlds Doubles format is designed to ensure that the results accurately reflect a team performance by using both partner�s skills and abilities to contribute to the team�s score." Furthermore, Modified Best Disc was defined as "After a successful tee-off by the designated partner, both partners throw the next shot and the rest of the hole is completed using regular Best Disc format where the team determines which partner�s lie to throw from." From the combination of these two, I think it can safely be deduced that the Modified Best Disc format refers to scramble. (after the tee shot)

Still, it would be best to get such a conformation from the TDs, and indeed, folks should also ask at the Players' meeting.

And I wish disc golf would just use the term "scramble" to avoid such confusion in the future.

All withdrawals received after Saturday, July 14th at 8pm ET will only be back-filled off the Confirmed On-Site Waitlist. All players who are in Charlotte available to fill a Singles spot in Worlds, MUST see PDGA Memberships Manager, Sara Nicholson, IN PERSON at Player Check-in and fill out a Confirmed On-Site Waitlist form with their mobile number. If a spot becomes available due to a withdrawal or no-show at check-in, we will place two phone calls to the mobile number 30 minutes apart. If we get no response, we will move to the next name on the list. NOTE: You MUST be a current member AND a certified official in order to be placed on the Confirmed On-Site Waitlist.

I am assuming the on-site confirmed waitlist is first-come-first-serve based on the order you can track down Sara starting Sunday. Will the previous waitlist position matter at all? As an out-of-towner I'm trying to figure out if I need to be there at 9am Sunday to be near the front of the list.

The problem is the lingo used in ball golf and how it translates (or more accurately, doesn't translate) to the sport of disc golf. The way disc golfers normally do doubles is referred to as "scramble" in ball golf, and the other way is called Best Ball in ball golf.

Given the disc golf terminology "best shot" and "best disc" it's indeed unclear which of the above formats either is referring to.
I'd be happy if the organizers just used the terms as the PDGA has defined them:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/rules-for-doubles

As an aside, without hundreds of years of history the terms "scramble" and "best ball" aren't exactly sufficiently descriptive either.

I'd be happy if the organizers just used the terms as the PDGA has defined them:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/rules-for-doubles


Nice find Eric! Man, you learn something new every day. :cool:

Given those definitions and what was previously specified, it looks like any reference to Best Disc (also known as Best Score) should be stricken from the PDGA Worlds Website, and replaced with Best Shot. (aka scramble)

Also, I suspect that "After a successful tee-off" refers to a tee shot which is safely in the field of play. An unsuccessful tee-off would be an OB shot, missed mando, etc., I'm guessing. An unsuccessful tee-off becomes successful after the appropriate penalties and resolution (often requiring relocation to a new lie, such as after a missed mando) have been applied.

For the record, I'm just making educated guesses and have not spoken with anyone involved in an official capacity with the 2012 PDGA Worlds Mixed Doubles events.

I'd be happy if the organizers just used the terms as the PDGA has defined them:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/rules-for-doubles
Done. Big Dog updated the doubles format information as well as the scorecards. http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/events

Done. Big Dog updated the doubles format information as well as the scorecards. http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/events
Excellent. Thanks to all involved for the quick clarification and corrections.

While this funky format is a great effort to keep both partners involved in the scoring, there might be backups on the middle holes as the round progresses because all teams have to make more throws than on the other 12 holes. If this Modified Best Shot seems to work well but backups occur, maybe for World next year we could tweak it and do one round completely with the every other hole male/female alternate shot and the second round using the Modified Best Shot format on at least 12 or perhaps all 18 so the flow in each round would likely be more consistent.

What is the reason for the format change this year? Since 2006 it has always been. Round one Captian choice. Round two Alternating shot.

I am assuming the on-site confirmed waitlist is first-come-first-serve based on the order you can track down Sara starting Sunday. Will the previous waitlist position matter at all? As an out-of-towner I'm trying to figure out if I need to be there at 9am Sunday to be near the front of the list.

i am truly hopeing that somehow the waitlist we are on now just isnt thrown away and the order is maintained once a person gets there to charlotte to check in, no matter which day. What is the point of being on the list since early april and loosing your spot if you cant make it to sign up until monday versus someone coming in sunday. please someone explain. thanks

What is the reason for the format change this year? Since 2006 it has always been. Round one Captian choice. Round two Alternating shot.Kelsey and I slipped the TD a hundo. Only reason, pure and simple. :p

So Kelsey and I were curious, can the team designate who is the girl? Because, with the most recent ratings update, it's like I'm the girl! :o

i am truly hopeing that somehow the waitlist we are on now just isnt thrown away and the order is maintained once a person gets there to charlotte to check in, no matter which day. What is the point of being on the list since early april and loosing your spot if you cant make it to sign up until monday versus someone coming in sunday. please someone explain. thanks

Here is the information posted on PDGA Worlds Wait List page:

As withdrawals are received, we will continue to call the first player on the waitlist for that division. We will call at least three times and if we don�t get a response we will move on to the next person on the waitlist in that division. (If you receive a call, but are no longer interested in playing, please kindly give us a call back to let us know so we can move on to the next player more quickly.) We will continue this process for all withdrawals received through Saturday July 14th at 8pm ET at which time the online waitlist will no longer be used.

All withdrawals received after Saturday, July 14th at 8pm ET will only be back-filled off the Confirmed On-Site Waitlist. All players who are in Charlotte available to fill a Singles spot in Worlds, MUST see PDGA Memberships Manager, Sara Nicholson, IN PERSON at Player Check-in and fill out a Confirmed On-Site Waitlist form with their mobile number. If a spot becomes available due to a withdrawal or no-show at check-in, we will place two phone calls to the mobile number 30 minutes apart. If we get no response, we will move to the next name on the list. NOTE: You MUST be a current member AND a certified official in order to be placed on the Confirmed On-Site Waitlist.

Just noticed pools were posted and I was curious on how they were assigned? It seems not by rating.

Looks like it ended up being the top 42 players by rating (down to 960) all went into K and then everyone else was evenly distributed.



Pool K L M N
Players 72 72 72 67
Average 959.75 926.60 920.56 924.07
Min 930 879 825 866
Max 997 959 957 957
StdDev 18.22 20.13 24.28 19.94


Group N has some spots open but I don't believe any of the waitlist players (that were near me anyways) had very high ratings. I think everyone is going to wish they were in K to see how they compare to the best players but such is life. Can people trade amongst themselves?

Actually I take it back, there must have been something else at play since there were no players in K less than 930. I think they actually must have "binned" players by rating and then done it randomly inside those groups.


K L M N
Total 72 72 72 67
960+ 42 0 0 0
930+ 30 34 30 30
900+ 0 32 31 29
800+ 0 6 11 8

Last update on this. Found they actually put top 5 players under 960 in L, bottom 5 ratings in M and then went straight down by ranking order putting one player per division until full (like dealing cards). Only kinks are with players who were added in last update so this must have been calculated before todays registration update.

I can tell you i am ****** that i got put in the E pool of pro masters. i am actually mad at this decision. i have made almost 3 times the amount of money this year playing Pro Masters than anyone else in my division in that pool. i am not a great golfer but i feel my game is good enough/better than a lot of the people in the D pool. 72 of 96 pro masters in the D pool and 24 in the E pool. My player rating is better than 18 players in the D pool but there i am in E. oh and look at everyone from Charlotte in the D pool regardless of player rating money etc.

I am sure i am coming off like a complete egomaniac but honestly at this point i don't care. this is complete and utter BS!

oh yeah and believe me i saw all the Am's in the D pool as well. Dudes haven't even played a professional round in their life and they are in the D pool. How in the world does the PDGA let something like this happen??????????????

I can tell you i am ****** that i got put in the E pool of pro masters. i am actually mad at this decision. i have made almost 3 times the amount of money this year playing Pro Masters than anyone else in my division in that pool. i am not a great golfer but i feel my game is good enough/better than a lot of the people in the D pool. 72 of 96 pro masters in the D pool and 24 in the E pool. My player rating is better than 18 players in the D pool but there i am in E. oh and look at everyone from Charlotte in the D pool regardless of player rating money etc.

I am sure i am coming off like a complete egomaniac but honestly at this point i don't care. this is complete and utter BS!

I did the same analysis on the Open Masters and they look like they sorted by rating and put the top 50 in D. Then when every other one into D and E. There are no kinks so no one has been moved from D to E (or vice-versa). Same with the advanced men, they appear to have 100% done it by the ratings.

i don't aggree with but can live with every other one if you are correct. Then i am a victim of luck of the draw. still sucks the big one but what can i do. go compete and hope to make it in D after the shuffle.

Looks like Kenny chose the safer money bet and managed to switch over to MPM at the last minute where he will have another battle with Mr Schultz. Which one will add a 1st MPM Worlds title to their resume? All I can say is good luck to all the other MPM contenders!: eek:

bgwvdave - Pools for Open and Master are relatively meaningless this year because they change every day. There's no "big shuffle" for those pools because you do tee times every other day. You'll be in the big DE tee time pool on Wednesday no matter what. If you shoot well enough, you'll automatically be in the D pool on Thursday then back in the giant DE tee time pool Friday. Good luck.

chuck thanks for the heads up. so the pool really only matters for tuesday it looks like. that makes it a little better. i get whinny sometimes when i haven't had my snickers

Chuck,

Do you know why the Open Men are in pools? With Round 1 at Renny with Tee Times, I don't see why they did that.

I can tell you i am ****** that i got put in the E pool of pro masters. Do you play well ******? I do. Maybe they did you a favor. :p

lol Bruce we will see hugh?:-)

Its 327 miles to Charlotte, we've got a full tank of gas, a bag full of discs, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.....

HIT IT !!!!!!!

chuck thanks for the heads up. so the pool really only matters for tuesday it looks like. that makes it a little better. i get whinny sometimes when i haven't had my snickers

Its 327 miles to Charlotte, we've got a full tank of gas, a bag full of discs, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.....

HIT IT !!!!!!!

Love both of these Posts...Good Luck Boys...

Its 327 miles to Charlotte, we've got a full tank of gas, a bag full of discs, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.....

HIT IT !!!!!!!Sounds like someone's on a mission from God. :D

Pool information removed from the tournament page. Problem?

Players are stopping in B'ham for a quick round at George Ward. Safe travels to all.

The pools are back.

From Worlds meeting last night. . .

Flymart at The Blake on Tuesday night will be from 6:30-10:30 pm. There are 28 vendors in 45 10x10' booth spaces, with more anticipated. There are a few booths left at $150 each. Contact george(at)paschalpromotions.com for details.

Pro Shop at The Blake will be operated by Sun King Discs all week.

Field Events on Sunday are from 9 am-5 pm at Renny ballfields, which is the park entrance about a 1/4 mile northwest of the tennis center/DG entrance. Dynamic Discs and LSDiscs will be on site. The distance competition will be oriented to throw roughly east to west.

On-course vendors Mon-Fri at this point are Dynamic Discs at Elon and LSDiscs at Winget. Others may be added.

Vibram Challenge on Thursday will be at Independence Park, about a mile or so from The Blake; probably a little far to walk. There is a voucher in your Players Pack that's good for CTP throws to win Vibram discs.

Finals at Hornet's Nest on Saturday will feature 12 vendors and the Newcastle Beer Garden. More vendors may be added.

Volunteer Appreciation Party will be Sunday after Awards wrap-up at the Pizza Peel, 4422 Colwick Rd., across from the Cotswold Shopping Center.

Volunteers still needed, especially for on-course assignments.

Can't wait.

Finals at Hornet's Nest on Saturday will feature the Newcastle Beer Garden.
This is great news!!

This is great news!!

C'mon Dave, you know you can't drink and play at the same time :)

I knew about this a few months ago...and I was like "wow this is gonna be awesome"

From Worlds meeting last night. . .

Vibram Challenge on Thursday will be at Independence Park, about a mile or so from The Blake; probably a little far to walk. Set up 18 temp baskets and its almost the exact right distance to walk! :D

C'mon Dave, you know you can't drink and play at the same time :)

I knew about this a few months ago...and I was like "wow this is gonna be awesome"
ha I am being realistic here MTL:-) Yeah one of the greatest things about 08 worlds in K-zoo was Bells right there at hole 1's tee and hole 9's basket. it was the correct way to watch Golf!

"Volunteer Appreciation Party will be Sunday after Awards"

Awards are on Sunday?

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/DiscGolf_Ox/Worlds_Volunteer_2012.jpg

Would have liked to see the R and Z Pool flip starts on Wednesday-Thursday. As a Hack I start late both days....

Yep, RZ Wednesday could have been flipped to ZR on Thursday but it seemed like giving most players the same amount of time before the next round from Wed to Thurs was a good thing. If it was the same course both days, it likely would have been flipped (as KJ knows).

"Volunteer Appreciation Party will be Sunday after Awards"

Awards are on Sunday?

No. My bad, awards on Saturday after the last Finals group finishes; party on Sunday. But technically, what I said is still correct ;-)

Thanks, PECKham!

Yep, RZ Wednesday could have been flipped to ZR on Thursday but it seemed like giving most players the same amount of time before the next round from Wed to Thurs was a good thing. If it was the same course both days, it likely would have been flipped (as KJ knows).

Yes I do.... :)

But they got even with us old guys anyways having us play the ladies tees at Bradford -even though the other 2 courses we play are both Par 58 - I guess the par 58 course at Bradford must be more threatening of a par 58 then the other 2 (Idlewild and Hornets Nest - the easy version) We played the hard version as GM's in the NT just 2 years ago for the Nest - and I was looking forward to playing it again, but no.....

There is not one course - and only 3-4 holes total on the 3 courses - that actaully have any driving holes without tree tunnels as it looks on paper and pictures (I have never seen Bradford or Scrapyard, so I'm hoping there are a few more - but so far it looks like a Coyote, Cro and CE Teebird Worlds for me.

I'll see Bradford tomorrow for Doubles (although from the longs that I won't be playing)which ironically the ladies do get to play and Scap on SUN after field Events - so in my Worlds blog, I'll give a rundown on how the course pan out and if I need to carry more than 4 discs to win a Worlds title. :)

Leaving in 1 hour to be at Bradford at 1AM and get some rest before the 7 AM alarm goes off........ Next Worlds post for me - and my Worlds Blog covering Grandmasters play and PDGA evening functions will be here: http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=36471

Anyone else notice that the Amateur Schedule in the Confirmation Package doesn't include Winget in the Course key? Or there is no time listed for Semis?

Anyone else notice that the Amateur Schedule in the Confirmation Package doesn't include Winget in the Course key? Or there is no time listed for Semis?

Not sure what version that was, use this one:
http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/courses/schedule

Semis begin at 9 am Saturday. Here's the schedule:
http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/events/cut-lines

is dgplanet tv gonna broadcast any of the doubles action?, and are we gonna be able to register for it anytime soon?

Hello all

You will see a number of photographers working for DiscGolfer magazine as you play this week. Those of us wearing PDGA lanyards have been planning and coordinating course and division assignments with the photo editor, and are there to do a specific job.

We plan on publishing an on course action picture of the new World Champion in every division. So especially if you are in the lead group or two expect to see one or more of us trying to get that great magazine quality picture of you! We will likely introduce ourselves to your group before we begin and get everyone's name and PDGA number so we can have the best chance of keeping all the information correct. We will also publish many other player photos as well, but absolutely will be with the lead groups from time to time.

The MOST important thing to any of us is that we don't interfere with your play. It is also important that we position ourselves where we can see your face. Please, if we are distracting you give us a sign and we will gladly adjust our position. But we can't be invisible. Please try to work with us so we all can do the best at the job we are in Charlotte to do, whether that's making the best throws we possibly can or getting the best pictures we possibly can.

One of our experienced photographers (covered the World Championships before) is deaf and hard of hearing. Keep that in mind if you are trying to communicate with a photographer, because it is possible that he can't hear you.

Tuesday and Wednesday we will be concentrating on the divisions with fewest entrants, after the great shuffle we will be concentrating on the larger divisions.

We welcome a few of your favorite pictures as well. If you or a traveling companion has a good camera preferably a DSLR capable of high resolution photos then chose your favorite 2 - 3 as you review them after the tournament and let us know.

I will be posting many of my pictures on the PDGA Flickr pages and those will include lots of players who might otherwise not make it to the final pages of the magazine. It is possible other photographers will contribute to that as well. I'll try to upload every night if the workload doesn't totally consume me.

See you all at the players meeting.

Photo Editor DiscGolfer magazine ([email protected])

This is the nastiest hotel ive stayed at in a long time. They tried to charge me $150/night instead of $89. The wallpaper is peeling off the walls in the hallway, and it smells like chemicals. The ice maker for the floor is broken.
At least the toilet works. I hope I have hot water.

We really need tee times ...

This is the nastiest hotel ive stayed at in a long time. They tried to charge me $150/night instead of $89. The wallpaper is peeling off the walls in the hallway, and it smells like chemicals. The ice maker for the floor is broken.
At least the toilet works. I hope I have hot water.

The Blake Hotel is undergoing MAJOR renovation with entire floors under construction. And while the small bathrooms and occasional dust have been a running joke amongst the staff and players, I hope everyone realizes some of the positive aspects of this facility:



A banquet room which holds 1500+ people and, short of renting out the Charlotte Coliseum, is reportedly the only facility in town which can hold this many people. The FlyMart will be held in this same space tonight, and the Banquet and PDGA Awards Ceremony later this week. Imagine the cost to have another host hotel, but then rent some other banquet hall for these functions, which would likely have been deducted from the payouts.





Central and convenient location to the I-277 and I-77 highways, just a few blocks from the Metropolitan Center. There's an aquatic center across the street which is also available for use.




Free breakfast for all tournaments players & staff





An extremely friendly hotel staff who is catering our every need. I am not used to southern hospitality and it is a refreshing change from the grim northerners I normally interact with. A really nice touch is the hotel providing $2 Newcastle beer for tournament players and their guests in the hotel bar all week long. You can't beat that with a stick!



Please consider that at $89/night, it's a VERY favorable room rate, and if we had stayed anywhere else it would have cost a whole lot more. And of course, folks would have been whining about the high room rate at the other location...so it's really a no win situation.


Bottom line is that I'm not going to let a little dust & dirt distract me from enjoying the biggest and best event in disc golf history.

Wow. I looked at today's results in the pro divisions and realized it was the first time I'd seen the list of registered competitors for this event. Those old men divisions are chock-full of great players! That's where the action is going to be this week!

The BlaZe is a JOKE!

Much like the "super" grouping...

The Blake Hotel is undergoing MAJOR renovation with entire floors under construction. And while the small bathrooms and occasional dust have been a running joke amongst the staff and players
Don't forget about the worst shower curtains EVER.

Free breakfast for all tournaments players & staff
Really?? Where was that advertised/announced?

Pictures from Tuesday at PDGA Flickr pages. Horrible slow internet where I'm staying so had to upload small res versions, sorry but ... have some juniors, advanced masters women & GM women etc that played Eastway in morning and Elon afternoon (Eager Beaver + some Angry Beaver).

Michael Johansen (http://www.pdga.com/player_stats/35487) just shot an unofficially 1112-rated round of 41 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/live.php?TournID=10864&Div=MPO) on the Bradford Park Long course (http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/Bradford_Long_Map.pdf)! :eek:

He now leads the Open division by five throws.

At least two players were late for their tee time today for a consecutive start round. My copy of the PDGA rules says they get a four throw penalty for each tee time slot they are late. At the Bongo Golf World Championships you just rearrange the foursomes and let it slide. Dude, no penalty. :rolleyes:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/18/3389218/i-85-crash-charlotte-7-hurt.html

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/18/3389218/i-85-crash-charlotte-7-hurt.html
Irrelevant . . . If this is true, they should be stroked according to the rules, especially at the WORLD championships.

Irrelevant . . . If this is true, they should be stroked according to the rules, especially at the WORLD championships.
Discretion is the best applied to rules. Kudos to whomever made the decision.

Slippery slope arguments don't sway me either.

The projection desk at CBS News just called it: Bruce and Kelsey Brakel are in the L pool together. It's bedtime here at Lake Wylie. ;)

Now - where is the listing of your new pool assignments?

Repeating MA1 Thursday schedule question raised on Facebook??

Printed "Official Tournament Course Catalog" schedule from the player pack shows:
9AM @ Winget = K
9AM @ Angry = L

Online PDF schedule (http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/Combined_Course_Schedule_v1.8a.pdf) shows
9AM @ Winget = L
9AM @ Angry = K

Where are players supposed to go?

The online schedule is correct:

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/Combined_Course_Schedule_v1.8a.pdf

Thanks to the volunteers and staff for getting scores and tee times up reasonably early.

A few glitches along the way, but generally impressed by the logistics and operations, at least the ones that involved me.

Thanks to the PDGA, Charlotte, and everyone involved.

A special thanks to what must be a hundred spotters. What a job, to stand on a hundred-degree fairway all week while other people play disc golf around you. "How'd you spend your vacation?" "Stood in the woods, helped people find frisbees". God bless them, every one.

So the question has been posed, because it looks as if it may come to pass:

What happens if the winner of Masters division has a better score than the winner of Open division?

They are all playing the same courses during all 4 days of regular competition, although they play on alternating days (different pools).

On the other hand, they play different courses for the semi-finals.

How does this work?

So the question has been posed, because it looks as if it may come to pass:

What happens if the winner of Masters division has a better score than the winner of Open division?

They are all playing the same courses during all 4 days of regular competition, although they play on alternating days (different pools).

On the other hand, they play different courses for the semi-finals.

How does this work?

Nothing..........You'll have people wondering, but It won't change who your 2012 World Champs would be in those 2 divisions.

So the question has been posed, because it looks as if it may come to pass:

What happens if the winner of Masters division has a better score than the winner of Open division?

They are all playing the same courses during all 4 days of regular competition, although they play on alternating days (different pools).
They are not playing the same courses during regular competition.


MPO plays Renny, Nevin, and Bradford

MPM plays Renny, Nevin, and Eastway


http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/Combined_Course_Schedule_v1.8a.pdf

Congrats to Vivian Dillen - your 2012 Under 16 Junior girls WORLD CHAMPION!!!!!

They are not playing the same courses during regular competition.


MPO plays Renny, Nevin, and Bradford

MPM plays Renny, Nevin, and Eastway


http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/Combined_Course_Schedule_v1.8a.pdf

Ah yes, I see that now.

Perhaps if MPM throws a better score than MPO (not by a little, but by a lot) then they'll get more attention and coverage in the future?


Nothing..........You'll have people wondering, but It won't change who your 2012 World Champs would be in those 2 divisions.

Maybe more MPM eligible competitors will play MPO instead, since it will be the easier division. Imagine that, bagging in MPO!

Does anyone know how Amateur payouts are being handled? Are payouts posted anywhere?

Not sure about the AM payout but Devan posted a link to the Pro payout on Facebook and sadly the payout is still quite poor.

Not sure about the AM payout but Devan posted a link to the Pro payout on Facebook and sadly the payout is still quite poor.

I'm not sure I really should be opening this pandora's box, but how is paying 58 players a total of $36,200 a "poor" payout?

If you and your fellow whiny *** ***** pros want bigger better payouts, get off your asses and get more sponsors to add cash to your purses. The sense of entitlement I get from some pros at this stage of the sport's infancy is really really unbecoming.

Had an amazingly interesting Round 6 at The Angry Beaver yesterday afternoon. The round was scheduled to start at 2:00 and I turned my card in at 7:45. Not trying to defend my 67 but those ratings seem low (especially considering the rain). Will there be an adjustment?

I'm not sure I really should be opening this pandora's box, but how is paying 58 players a total of $36,200 a "poor" payout?

If you and your fellow whiny *** ***** pros want bigger better payouts, get off your asses and get more sponsors to add cash to your purses. The sense of entitlement I get from some pros at this stage of the sport's infancy is really really unbecoming.

The payout ends up being $251 per person.....The 126% payout is based on $200 to payout but the entry was likely $230 (not sure kust what I remember from the past). If the entry was $125 and the payout was as it is now that would be pretty dang good......but it isn't $125 and you have to place 19 spots in the cash to get your $200 that went into payout back although the other $20-$30 is lost.

Usually last place gets close to their entry if not a little more at most events yet here 8 players all get the same payout??? Now $150 is fine for last cash but 8 spots in should get $200 and each spot should have at least a $5 difference in payout.....if the last 8 all get $150 and you are the last guy to make the cut why even show if you are behind eight guys and would have to jump all of them to make an extra $10?

Every other division payed at least $200 to last cash....except MPO, which required the best scores to make it into the cash ....I guess it is fine last cash in the others got the same as a guy 19 spots into the cash in MPO.

I will look at the payout more later but that is the general theme every year

Lastly, (and this is just a personal thing)I would like to see 1st in MPM receive less than 2nd in open, even if it is only $1.

Congrats to all the winners on both the AM and PRO side who can now call themselves a World Champion! Some of the winners have been there before, such as in the case of Climo who his 1 for 1 in Masters, Annie who I believe won in here first year as a GM, and the Good Doctor who scorched the course before I seemingly jinxed him so that he ONLY won by 14.

Someone post as to if Mr. Sias has won in the past.....feel like he may have won open in the 80s.

Anyway, a big congratulations to Sarah and Paul who have claimed the right to be true champions and class act people. Thanks for making the last putt to win like I said you would Sarah. It is very impressive to see how fast some of these women have improved and this goes for both the AM and PRO ranks.

Great fun was had for sure and these mixed worlds are always the most fun!....especially on courses like they have in that area.

Putting Qualifying results are all messed up with several pros listed in the AM Division, thereby causing the payouts to be wrong for the TRUE AMS and maybe for the TRUE PROS also - although I would be happy to take the $3 in merch as it would be my only Worlds cashing this year. :)


http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/results/field-events/putting

Any word on when Worlds will be going to Performance Edition?

Just a reminder that for the following divisions where there were pools, your unofficial online ratings are no longer accurate:

Pro
Open Division MPO Pools A,B
Masters Division MPM Pools D,E

Amateur
Advanced Division MA1 Pools K,L,M,N
Advanced Masters Division MM1 Pools P,Q
Advanced Grandmasters Division MG1 Pools R,Z

Every other division which did not have multiple pools should have accurate unofficial online round ratings.

Remember, the next PDGA Player Ratings Update is scheduled for August 14th, and your official round ratings for your rounds WILL be accurate when the next ratings update goes through.

Ah yes, I see that now.

Perhaps if MPM throws a better score than MPO (not by a little, but by a lot) then they'll get more attention and coverage in the future?




Maybe more MPM eligible competitors will play MPO instead, since it will be the easier division. Imagine that, bagging in MPO!

You aren't serious, are you?

Just a reminder that for the following divisions where there were pools, your unofficial online ratings are no longer accurate:
[...]
Remember, the next PDGA Player Ratings Update is scheduled for August 14th, and your official round ratings for your rounds WILL be accurate when the next ratings update goes through.
With player ratings touted as one of the major benefits of being a PDGA member, I must say it's disappointing that it's taking three weeks to get ratings sorted out at the organization's most prestigious event.

I look forward to the day when the talented Mr. Ganz has this all automated. :D

With player ratings touted as one of the major benefits of being a PDGA member, I must say it's disappointing that it's taking three weeks to get ratings sorted out at the organization's most prestigious event.

I look forward to the day when the talented Mr. Ganz has this all automated. :D

What are you talking about? Ratings for ALL events take a few weeks to be "sorted out". Worlds is no different than your average C-tier in how it's treated in the ratings process. Updates are done monthly, and the next update is August 14. This isn't a special case because the unofficial ratings are off. It's N-O-R-M-A-L procedure.

The reason the unofficial ratings are not quite accurate is because the pools got mixed up with the great shuffle. There's no way in the system to differentiate player X's round one in L Pool from player Y's round one in K pool on a totally different course. Not a shortcoming of the event, as this same problem would apply at any event where there are multiple pools of players in the same division (Bowling Green, for example).

The first three rounds in MA1 are probably pretty close to accurate because Kilbourne, R.L.Smith and Hornets Nest were about equally hard. Maybe the Kilbourne rounds are a little high and the other two a little low. As to the last three rounds, Wingett is probably rated about 30 points high while R.L. Smith and the Angry Beav are probably about 15 points low.

Regardless, you average rating won't change much. If you averaged 942, you still averaged 942, and you still got beat by the girl! :p

With player ratings touted as one of the major benefits of being a PDGA member, I must say it's disappointing that it's taking three weeks to get ratings sorted out at the organization's most prestigious event.

I look forward to the day when the talented Mr. Ganz has this all automated. :D

What are you talking about? Ratings for ALL events take a few weeks to be "sorted out". Worlds is no different than your average C-tier in how it's treated in the ratings process. Updates are done monthly, and the next update is August 14. This isn't a special case because the unofficial ratings are off. It's N-O-R-M-A-L procedure.

The reason the unofficial ratings are not quite accurate is because the pools got mixed up with the great shuffle. There's no way in the system to differentiate player X's round one in L Pool from player Y's round one in K pool on a totally different course. Not a shortcoming of the event, as this same problem would apply at any event where there are multiple pools of players in the same division (Bowling Green, for example).
Worlds is very different than your average C-Tier for the exact reason you point out: multiple pools within divisions.

The average C-Tier has fairly accurate unofficial ratings as soon as the TD uploads the scores.
Worlds has whacked out ratings halfway through the event.

And it's certainly not any fault of "the event" for this situation. It should be a "simple matter of programming" (as my boss likes to say) to tag players with their pools to keep the unofficial ratings fairly accurate. But I understand that Mr. Ganz is working with an archaic infrastructure that doesn't support this. But I hope that one day the PDGA will get there.

It should be a "simple matter of programming" (as my boss likes to say) to tag players with their pools to keep the unofficial ratings fairly accurate. But I understand that Mr. Ganz is working with an archaic infrastructure that doesn't support this. But I hope that one day the PDGA will get there. We will, we will. Hopefully before the Amateur Championships at Bowling Green next year.

The first three rounds in MA1 are probably pretty close to accurate because Kilbourne, R.L.Smith and Hornets Nest were about equally hard. Maybe the Kilbourne rounds are a little high and the other two a little low. As to the last three rounds, Wingett is probably rated about 30 points high while R.L. Smith and the Angry Beav are probably about 15 points low.

Regardless, you average rating won't change much. If you averaged 942, you still averaged 942, and you still got beat by the girl! :p

Bruce,

I met your lovely daughter Kelsey.. she was such a delight to have at R.L. Smith. I was very impressed with her being the only girl to play with the AM men division.. Seems like I remember she played juniors in KC and in Des Moines in 2003 and 2004..is that correct? It wasn't until the second day at Smith..that I heard her say "my dad is playing the same division on different card..and I am one card ahead of him". :-) cute! So I am sure I met you, but can't remember your face.. maybe next time.

Tell her Joy from R.L. oasis, said "hello"..and I am very proud of her.. you have raised a very lovely; polite; humble; young lady there.


Happy Happy JOY JOY!

Everyone who knows Diana and I wonders how the hospital switched our child for Kelsey at birth, and how those two nice people are doing raising our hellion.

Kelsey played juniors in Des Moines 2004 and Advanced Women in Milwaukee 2007 and Kalamazoo 2008. We did not get out to KC in 2003. Diana and the girls played USWDGC that year instead in Peoria.

I was the really old really sweaty fat man with a short grey beard and mustache and even shorter hair. I said, "I should cut out the middle man and just pour this directly on my shirt!" I left a tip and drank a lot of Gatorade. I put a rock on your tips so they wouldn't blow away.

The oasis was awesome. :D

First of all I had a great experience the entire week and wouldnt trade it for anything. my hats off to the charlotte club, the sponsors, the VOLUNTEERS, and the course TD's.

However im calling bull ship on 2 issues that disappointed me in our PDGA.

1- PDGA if you say you have to be signed in by 5pm on day 2 of registration thats it...... PDGA - why did you give people 3 plus hours after the deadline? hell.o, i couldve worked monday and not taken an extra day off work if you can still sign in after the mandatory mtg is over. BULL SHIP-pdga
people should have known at 7pm when the players mtg started or by 830 for gods sake if they were in or not off the waitlist not 1245 as some people where called that night.

2- what the hell,o happened to the board in pool M last round. 72 players take lunch, drive across town from wingate to angry beaver, eat, warm-up and then NO ONE knows where the leaderboard is. At 2pm they say 45 minutes, at 3pm board arrives-- wait... guess what?? it hasnt been sorted and we wait a few more minutes. Total BS on these 2 items.

F
2- what the hell,o happened to the board in pool M last round. 72 players take lunch, drive across town from wingate to angry beaver, eat, warm-up and then NO ONE knows where the leaderboard is. At 2pm they say 45 minutes, at 3pm board arrives-- wait... guess what?? it hasnt been sorted and we wait a few more minutes. Total BS on these 2 items.

Same thing happened to my daughter when she wnet from Winget to Eager Beaver (Pool X). 40 minute late start. And the same thing happened to me in pool P. That Winget to Elon drive must be awful (but only if you have the cards...)

Same thing happened to my daughter when she wnet from Winget to Eager Beaver (Pool X). 40 minute late start. And the same thing happened to me in pool P. That Winget to Elon drive must be awful (but only if you have the cards...)

.....I thought it was just us (Pool P on Wednesday) and was willing to give the benefit of the doubt, assuming a flat tire or some other unforeseen problem. Then I heard about the MA1s have a similar, even worse, problem.

I'm not up to bashing anyone but am curious as to what went wrong. I heard that part of the issue was trying to relay scores to the PDGA to be posted, before the cards were shuffled and the boards moved.

I'm not up to bashing anyone but am curious as to what went wrong. I heard that part of the issue was trying to relay scores to the PDGA to be posted, before the cards were shuffled and the boards moved.I guess they have never heard of Ctrl-F. :rolleyes:

.....I thought it was just us (Pool P on Wednesday) and was willing to give the benefit of the doubt, assuming a flat tire or some other unforeseen problem. Then I heard about the MA1s have a similar, even worse, problem.

I'm not up to bashing anyone but am curious as to what went wrong. I heard that part of the issue was trying to relay scores to the PDGA to be posted, before the cards were shuffled and the boards moved.
I guess they have never heard of Ctrl-F. :rolleyes:

These assumptions could not be any further from the truth.

Every course either called in their scores or e-mailed a spreadsheet containing the scores immediately after the round was over. The course TD enters the round scores and totals but DOES NOT reshuffle the board until after the scores are called in. Since the master spreadsheet and the unsorted scoreport are in exactly the same order, on the phone the course TD needs only read off the names and scores, and the person in scoring central just goes right down his spreadsheet and verifies totals.

Once the entire course has been called in, the course TD is supposed to re-sort his board and break ties by hot round and then lower PDGA number. The problems then ensue when trying to find an assistant course TD or trusted volunteer or spotter to ferry the scoreport to the next course. Unfortunately, there was an incident in a previous Worlds with a player ferrying the scoreport, so players themselves cannot be given the scoreport. In many cases this week, the PDGA Marshal was the only one who was available to ferry the scoreport...the marshal had to drive all the way over to another course, and then drive back to the course he/she was supposed to be marshaling.

Trust me, other than the issue of tee times being posted late before Round 1, the issue with ferrying scoreports was the hottest topic in discussions between the PDGA and the local club, and in subsequent years when world championships are not being held in one location such as next year at Lemon Lake, this issue will surely be addressed.

Thanks for the info.

The reason I mentioned the scores was a notion, perhaps false, that some course TDs were having trouble getting the scores to you right away, especially if they were calling them in. The belief was that they needed to get the scores to you before shuffling the board, then shuffle the board, then someone needed to transport it.

Again, I'm not criticizing, just curious. I thought the logistics went pretty well in general. As a TD I'm always interested in how we do things and how we can do them better. This was a procedure I've never thought about and will never have to deal with---but I'm still interested.

I didn't realize one marshall was making the round trip between two courses. That would of course mean that if the round on the course he was working ran too long, there would be a delay going both ways.

Trust me, other than the issue of tee times being posted late before Round 1, the issue with ferrying scoreports was the hottest topic in discussions between the PDGA and the local club, and in subsequent years when world championships are not being held in one location such as next year at Lemon Lake, this issue will surely be addressed.

Why do ScorePoint boards need to be physically moved/ferried from course to course?

Why do ScorePoint boards need to be physically moved/ferried from course to course?

The cards, at the very least, have to follow the players as they represent the hard copy back-up of each player's entire tournament. And it sounds like, at least for the TDs that were calling in scores, the only means of letting the players at the course know where they stood.

I'm sure it was considered easier/simpler to arrange the cards on the board and transport the whole thing from course to course than to pull all the cards off one board, transport them to the next course, and put them back on a new board. Too much chance of a card or two being misplaced or lost if it is taken from the board, IMO.

The cards, at the very least, have to follow the players as they represent the hard copy back-up of each player's entire tournament. And it sounds like, at least for the TDs that were calling in scores, the only means of letting the players at the course know where they stood.

I'm sure it was considered easier/simpler to arrange the cards on the board and transport the whole thing from course to course than to pull all the cards off one board, transport them to the next course, and put them back on a new board. Too much chance of a card or two being misplaced or lost if it is taken from the board, IMO.
I guess I'm just not seeing the necessity of physically moving one set of cards from course to course.

The updated hole assignments could (a) all be done electronically, or (b) communicated over the phone.

There's no infallibility with paper cards either. In my group of five Advanced players from Houston two of us had rounds incorrectly reported.

As Jeff wrote: this is an issue that needs to be (/will be?) improved upon for future World's events.

There's no infallibility with paper cards either. In my group of five Advanced players from Houston two of us had rounds incorrectly reported.

Trust me Eric, that bothered me greatly this week.

If the course TD reads me a score and I repeat the total back to him and they match up, how can the round score be incorrect?

My theories are that:

a) the course TD is copying down an incorrect score from the scorecard onto the scoreport card and reporting that to me. We won't catch that unless a player reports it to a course TD or Marshal because we're not looking at the scorecards when they come in.

b) the course TD is not totalling up his scoreport cards prior to calling in, and waiting for me to give him the total. If the course TD tells me a player shot a 55 and I hear 65 and then give them the total and he writes that down, the error will not be caught. We do the total score check specifically as a redundant check to make sure that scores were communicated correctly over the cell phone. I had one course TD last week who was pausing after I read totals back and so I could tell that he was writing down my totals, and I kindly asked him to call back when he did things properly like we had asked everyone to.

c) for course TDs who are e-mailing me spreadsheets, I am trusting that the course TD is entering the scores correctly into the spreadsheet because I am copying and pasting straight from that into my master spreadsheet. I have no way of checking these scores, and that course TD may be making an error entering scores into his spreadsheet.

Next year when everything is in one location, the course director will physically bring the scoreport to me and I will see if they are totaled and we will communicate scores directly instead of over cell phone as I enter them into the master spreadsheet. This should greatly reduce the number of score errors.

Perhaps there should be a Pool TD instead of a Course TD?. He goes with the same players all day.

thanks jeff better understood. flymarTt was great and players parTty site was nice large venue to host it at .

the final nine showcases were great and true baTtles to the end in many groups were decided. course spoTters and volunTteers thanks, thanks, thank,

vitamin water, monsTter girls to brighten your spirits with liguids, and all the great players i played with all week long, thanks. hamlin thanks for the rides, cow pine suiTtes- check, wow how can 1 ciTty have so many great courses!!! Too many man hours to imagine.

Where are Worlds photos posted? I see the link under "Media" but there's only 191 pix when I felt like I saw at least that many photographers. Any links appreciated.

What I heard from some course TDs was that when it was time to turn in scores, they had to wait a long time until a person was available to take scores.

I didn't notice before the final 9 that some prize money was awarded to me for both putting and the skill shot challenge. It's just over $20 and not a big deal but I just wondered if they would be sending checks out for those who placed in the field events or online store credit possibly. I had a great time and appreciate all the hard work put in to organize such a huge event.

What I heard from some course TDs was that when it was time to turn in scores, they had to wait a long time until a person was available to take scores.

That is absolutely false. There was myself, along with two (2) volunteer scoring assistants each day with Excel spreadsheets open in front of them each day taking calls. Additionally, if scoring personnel didn't answer the phone because they were actively taking scores, the course TDs would occasionally call PDGA Technology Director Steve Ganz or PDGA Tour Manager Andrew "Big Dog" Sweeton who were also present in the scoring room and who could either take their scores or advise the course TD to call back in 5 minutes.

I could write an essay on my complete Worlds experience, but here's some thoughts on just the courses I saw & played last week, broken up into two posts. For the record, I had previously played Hornet's Nest and Kilborne Park about a decade ago. While I would have liked to check out Winget Plantation Ruins, Eastway Park, Idlewild Scrapyard, Sugaw Creek, and the Angry Beaver, time and my work schedule simply didn't allow it. Next time.

My 2012 PDGA World Championships trip started off with a stop at Randolph Park DGC in Dublin, VA, which is just south of Blacksburg and very, very conveniently located just off highway I-81. It�s a relatively new course, having just been established in 2008 but it�s a very nice pro par 58 track. Playing from the longest set of tees (blue) I thought this was an excellent mix of wooded and open holes and never got boring. Some of the blue tees were a little difficult to find and we actually ended up playing from the white tee on the pro par four sixth hole and the pro par five thirteenth hole, but that did not diminish our enjoyment of the course. For a Pennsylvania woods golfer, I found the woods on the front nine to be tough but fair and would be a good preparation for the Charlotte courses; however, my traveling companion Bill Newman felt that the wooded fairways were just a little too narrow for his liking. I can only think of a few small areas for improvement which relate mostly due to distance and par assessments. For example, the 425 ft twelfth hole is listed as a par four from the blue tees but this an easy two-shot par 3 hole. And at 465 ft but playing severely downhill, the fourteenth hole is reachable for a deuce and nowhere even close to par four consideration, even if the drainage channels around the basket were considered OB. On the flip side, the 590 ft pro par four sixteenth hole is just so well protected in the woods that I don�t see scores of birdie three as a very realistic possibility on a consistent basis. Both Bill I felt that the polehole should be shortened by about 40-50 feet to allow blue level (~950) rated players (for which it was presumably designed for) a better opportunity at birdie.

Bottom line is that with a 3.65 rating over at DGcoursereview.com, I feel this course has loads of potential, and with a little adjustment it could easily crack the 4.0 line and be considered a course WELL above average. I was certainly glad that we stopped in to check it out, and I�d definitely love to check it out again, especially if the retention ponds on holes#11-12 and 13-14 are full with water.

Arriving in Charlotte on Friday, we immediately proceeded to the famed Renaissance Park. Driving into the park and first seeing the power line 8th and 15th holes on my left, followed by the famed 2nd and 18th holes on my right gave me goose bumps! This is a course which obviously has a great reputation and as someone who is sick of pitch-n-putts and is a huge fan of pro par four and pro par five disc golf, Renny had been a glaring omission on my disc golf resume for over a decade. From a design perspective, the course exceeded every expectation and then some. I simply have not seen any other course which offers so many different options, challenges, and unique features from a course design perspective. Without fail, you are likely to use every disc golf shot you�ve ever learned in the course of play, and you�ll love every frustrating minute of it. I have never experienced a course where I shot two 7s and an 8 in one round and wasn�t all that upset about it, and in fact thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of it. A good majority of the holes could be signature holes at any other course, and when they follow each other in succession, it feels almost too good to be true. I have never experienced a putt like I had from below the basket on hole#2, and the 18th hole is simply one of the most sadistic & masochistic, but ingenious, holes in all of disc golf. To record a spectacular eagle three here would be something you could honestly boast about for the rest of your life, and just securing a score of birdie four is an amazing testament of disc golf skill, combining both distance and accuracy on every shot.


With that being said, I was actually majorly disappointed with the course, namely due to its appearance. For starters, the course looked beat � like it had been neglected for quite some time. What�s really mind-boggling is that a course which is less than 15 years old looked like it was twice that age. I was shocked at the amount of litter and trash which dotted most of the wooded holes on the front nine, and this was a mere four days before the start of the World Championships there! The tee pads were crumbly and decayed, and the blue �W-12� painted on the tees were badly faded on most holes. The chain link fence with barbwire on holes#3-5 was absolutely atrocious and had no business being on a course of this supposed high caliber. The OB markings which gave the course its teeth were sadly inconsistent and ugly, with wooden stakes, PVC pipe, metal pipe, painted garden stakes, orange flags, orange paint, and red flags all used at various times to denote OB, and sometimes all within the same hole! The tee signs also featured similar inconsistency, with unappealing numbering techniques such as metallic mailbox, plastic, and wooden numbers used in various locations, and frankly, it just looked ghetto. On the back nine, the OB stakes between holes#11 and 13 were missing altogether in many places. From a flow of play perspective, the course was a nightmare. The signage and ease of finding one�s way around on the front nine were dreadful, and three of us wandered around aimlessly at many times trying to find the next tee. On the back nine, the two longest holes come within a span of three holes, with another completely wide open par four sandwiched between them. The course itself is also crowded into a far, far smaller space than I imagined and it�s no wonder that outrageous backups causing 4-5 hour rounds occur � this is simply not a course which can safely and easily handle a full tournament field, because of the ease with which shots can stray from one hole onto the fairway of another hole.


I appreciate the amazing amount of work which went into the creation of this course early last decade � surely this was a monumental task and I don�t want to diminish the efforts of all those who labored in overbearing heat and humidity to carve out this track. Perhaps I simply overhyped it in my mind over all these years. Perhaps the local volunteers had too much work to perform on other courses in the last year or two and felt that Renny was in acceptable shape. Perhaps I was spoiled by the absolutely pristine appearance and country club conditions at courses like Bradford, Nevin Park, and R.L. Smith. But if all the top rated courses such as Flip City, Idlewild, Deer Lakes, Tyler State Park, etc. had trash all over them and looked as ghetto as Renaissance did, you�d dock these courses just as severely, too.


The next course I got to see was Bradford Park as the assistant TD of the Pro Mixed Doubles event. The park itself is located in what appears to be a very affluent suburban neighborhood well outside of the city, and the course had what I considered to be a correspondingly country club feel to it. While I didn�t get to play the course, I was most impressed by the appearance and playability of a course which was less than eleven months old. I liked how the course progressed through several different topographies, alternating between some open holes, some tight woods, the �Cedar Alley� portion of the course, some more open holes, back into the woods, and then back out in the open to finish. As opposed to Renaissance, the OB was consistently and uniformly marked with small orange stakes only, and the concrete tee pads were brand new and perfect, and it had some of the nicest benches I've ever seen too, made from huge pieces of lumber and stained nicely. (These would later be eclipsed by the spectacular benches at R.L. Smith) The pin location on top of boulders on hole#3 was memorable, as was the original cedar alley which formed hole#9, a quintessential chute hole. The par four twelfth hole was imo one of the signature holes of the entire tournament, as the water levels in �Lake Schleppy� rose throughout the day from the accumulated plastic. This did not look to be an easy course, and Michael Johansen�s nearly perfect round was just the result of a player who made excellent practice leading up to the Worlds event, and got into a zone and simply executed. Again, I feel that a 3.81 rating over at DGcoursereview.com is underrating it.

Up next was the Nevin Park course, which played almost predominantly in the woods. In its longest configurations, the course is nicknamed �The Nightmare� but it was thankfully shortened for speed of play for the Worlds competition. To be honest, I thought the first three holes were shockingly easy, where Gold level players would be embarrassed not to come away with a birdie on. I know I was disappointed that despite driving to the green on all three holes, I was unable to score deuces, and I�m a player of far less caliber than nearly all those playing in the Open & Masters division during tournaments. The fun really starts on hole#4 and continues through hole#10, when accuracy really becomes a premium. I played these holes conservatively and scored well on them, carding nearly all pars with just one bogey, while those I played with got too aggressive and took some double bogeys or worse on several holes. These holes are all about resisting temptation and playing smart golf, and I have no compassion for folks who complain about courses and holes like these simply because they attempt to throw 450-ft. shots, and then kick a hundred feet laterally into the underbrush. About the only drawback to these holes is that many of them play almost always dead straight and very similarly, and the course likely doesn�t provide much scoring separation.

Hole#11 may have been one of the most deceiving holes I�ve encountered, as my playing partners and I emptied our bags and time and time again ended up left and short of the pin in heavy rough. It is followed by a hole which would surely be the signature one if not for the closing trifecta of delight which end the course. The double mando on hole#14 is a little hokey and if not for a well placed fence, I might have ended up across the road and into a neighbor�s yard. I was informed however that the hole was redesigned from an earlier incarnation which resulted in more of these shots and complaints, so it looks like we have a better situation there. Additionally, the hole can�t play through the beautiful large mature trees straight ahead because of the tacraw courts � which is basically volleyball played only using their feet with weird balls. From the long tee, hole#16 would be a real bear of a hole, and while the shorter tee turns it more into a tweener par 3/4, I was still very enthused to score a birdie three here. It was just as refreshing that the long tee for hole#17 was also not used, because from that location it might be one of the most awkward holes I�ve ever encountered. From the short tee, I was again enthused to throw a conservative drive and upshot, and two-putt for a par 4.

The closing hole is as picturesque as the prettiest postcard photo, and generated considerable �ooos and ahhs� from all of us on the tee. We all played the hole differently, with one cardmate launching a successful bomb across the creek from the tee while others chose to lay up before it with varying degrees of success. I love that the pin is set against a hillside which can be used as a backstop for approaches which come in a little too strong. All in all, this was one hell of a great course and well deserved of the 4.13 it garners on DGcoursereview.com.

Waking up early on Sunday morning, we played the R.L. Smith course before departing town, and words can�t express how delighted I was to have played this gem. Every other course I played in Charlotte had a bit of all the requisite features that go into a top notch track but none packed them all into one course like R.L.Smith. The combination of the biggest elevation changes of Charlotte courses, multiple holes that actually bend hard left or right and aren�t straight shots, alternating tight & more open wooded shots, crazy pin placements on top of enormous boulders, a beautiful water hazard which comes into play on a whopping 8 holes, some of the nicest benches, teepads and stained hardwood decks I�ve seen on any course ANYWHERE, make this my absolute favorite course I played this week or even in the last few years!

Just the bench on hole#1 and the walk down to the teepad give you an early sense that you are in for a top notch disc golf experience and a country club feel. I absolutely love, love, loved the ski slope green on hole#2 and the strategy it brings into play, because the decision to go for even a 25 ft. putt there can be a costly one. Hole#3 is a must-deuce, because you�ll need it for the tweener hole#4 which follows� I absolutely loved the peninsula green here by the water. The 535� fifth hole which follows is about as perfect a pro par four hole as I can imagine, and hole#8 which throws from up on the hill down towards the water is one of the most unique par 3 holes I�ve ever seen. All of us were constantly uttering �ooos and ahhs� from the tee of just about every other hole on this course, and especially on this one. I was totally tempted to throw a really flippy Roc with hyzer because you want your shot to go left and then flatten out, but I was too scared that it would flip over and head OB to the right and so I opted just to fluff a pooch shot for a safe 3. The little bridges which gap the ravines and ditches here are a delightful touch, especially for a course that�s only been in the ground less than a year.

Although certainly interesting, I�m not a big fan of �horseshoe� holes and so hole#9 was a little controversial, imo. I took an easy par four on it but I�d be interested to see how often this hole gets birdie 3�d � I�m willing to bet that it�s few and far between. After checking out what was surely a very cool feature, Joy�s Oasis, we played down to hole#12 which blew my mind � both in the quality of the deck teepad and the basket location amongst the rocks. That deck is nicer than ones I�ve seen at many folk�s homes, and the look up at the basket was so sweet that we all stopped and took multiple pictures of it. We almost did the same on the tee for the closing trio of holes 16-18; I cannot recall a trio of holes to finish a course which elicited such �wow� moments from all of us on the tee pad. I mean, does disc golf get much better than the view and play from the �top of the world� on hole#18? If you�re not a fan of this hole, then you might as well just give up the sport because this is just about the neatest hole in town.

All in all, I was just majorly impressed with the R.L. Smith and not even the sewer pipes which stuck up on a few holes and reportedly give up an occasional smell could drag down my opinion of it. (And the giant replica air freshener hanging on one of these pipes near hole#7 or #8 was possibly one of the funniest things I�ve ever seen on a disc golf course) Other than maybe an addition of a pro par five hole somewhere (maybe have hole#17 play all the way up to hole#18�s teepad?) I can�t even think of anything I would improve about this course. About the only negative thing I could note was the bag of trash on the tee of hole#6�I�m not really sure why when trash was surely being hauled out from the Oasis all week long that no assistant course TD or spotter bothered to remove this eyesore.

I�m all against grade inflation, but in sticking with the theme, I feel however that the 3.87 which R.L. Smith is currently garnering at DGcoursereview.com is criminally underrating the course. If this course isn�t at least a 4.0 in featuring perfect basket conditions , perfect tee signs & markers, fairways & flow, foliage maintenance, the nicest benches ANYWHERE, with elevation, epic holes, restrooms, running water, variety of hole distances, variety of shots required, and challenge, then I don�t know what is.

Thanks Charlotte for amazing courses and an amazing time!

I have seen where the pro and am payouts were posted on the website.... kudos for getting those out there... however, with over 100k estimated in am entry fees and retail payout estimated close to 42k...that equates to approximately 21k in wholesale expenses on payout...

In addition, from what I was told, the CDGC also had to raise over 20k in added cash... and yet the pro event paid out at 125%? again I'm curious as to how the PDGA arrives at these numbers... I can't pretend to know how to run an event as big as Worlds, but I do know how to run a lowly B tier with 7k added cash and payouts for pros and ams that exceed 300%.

so... I am curious how much was spent on players packs, travel expenses, and various other expenses... The PDGA is a non profit organization and I would like to see the financials of this tournament

however, with over 100k estimated in am entry fees
Where'd that number come from? :confused:
Advanced divisions were $115. Junior divisions were even cheaper, right?

It was a round estimate... so after doing the math... am entries were still over 80K... and how much stuff was donated???

actual numbers are closer than I thought.. as in Am Difference between payout and entry fees is very close to what I estimated the players packs cost. However, that still leaves the question, how much of players packs were donated? Also, what type of discount was given based on the quantity of plastic purchased??? My estimations are a little skewed toward the higher end, but again since the PDGA is a Non Profit organization, I would really be interested in seeing detailed financials.


Where'd that number come from? :confused:
Advanced divisions were $115. Junior divisions were even cheaper, right?

The PDGA is a non profit organization and I would like to see the financials of this tournamentGood luck with that.

The PDGA normally runs Am Worlds as an am-scam event. This year the amateur payouts were a little better than some of the Am Worlds I've played.

Expect PDGA defenders to tell you that this and that were not free. Expect PDGA defenders to clarify the maining of non-profit organization. Do not expect ever that the PDGA would open its books to the members.

I'll be the first to chime in on that, with the expected response:

I hope everyone understands the definition and goals of what it means to be a non-profit organization: a nonprofit organization is an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them to help pursue its goals. It doesn't mean that the organization doesn't make a profit; instead, it just means that those funds go back into the organization itself.

The more financially healthy the organization is, the better it is able to pursue its goals and serve its membership. More money = more programs to help grow the sport of disc golf.

And Bruce, if Am Worlds is such an "am-scam event" as you definite it, and which obviously displeases you so much, then you are always free to choose not to attend.

I'll be the first to chime in on that, with the expected response:

And Bruce, if Am Worlds is such an "am-scam event" as you definite it, and which obviously displeases you so much, then you are always free to choose not to attend.

I exercise that option more often than not, but I'm also free to advocate for change.

Most PDGA tournaments are am-scam. It is a proud PDGA tradition. Here's a list of PDGA tournaments I've played "recently" that were not am-scam:

Am Nationals
Roscoe's Revenge
Harbin Rat
Discraft Michigan State Championships

There just aren't that many TDs who see a pack of ams and don't hear the gentle lowing of cattle or the bleating of sheep.

Luckily for me, in 17 years as an Am I can't recall a tournament where I didn't get my money's worth for my entry fee---including 2012 Worlds, which I DNF'd.

Luckily for me, in 17 years as an Am I can't recall a tournament where I didn't get my money's worth for my entry fee---including 2012 Worlds, which I DNF'd.

Well said! http://www.pdga.com/discussion/images/icons/icon14.gif

Tournament value is almost always subjective... I've played in AM events where players packs and payout was little to nothing... but the venue was well worth the price.

I don't have a complaint per se regarding the 2012 World Championships... I just want to see the books. As a voting member, and if they are truly a 501.C.3 then I do believe their books have to be made available.

Georgia allows voting members access to minutes and accounting
records of the nonprofit corporation.
law.justia.com/georgia/codes/14/14-3-1602.html


Well said! http://www.pdga.com/discussion/images/icons/icon14.gif

Tournament value is almost always subjective... I've played in AM events where players packs and payout was little to nothing... but the venue was well worth the price.


Agreed.

I put a high value on someone organizing and running an event that I get to play in, so I'm easily satisfied.

Putting Qualifying results are all messed up with several pros listed in the AM Division, thereby causing the payouts to be wrong for the TRUE AMS and maybe for the TRUE PROS also - although I would be happy to take the $3 in merch as it would be my only Worlds cashing this year. :)


http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/results/field-events/putting

Just got my $3 check in the mail from the PDGA for my AM Senior putting -12th place

Although I play like an AM most times, there is NO excuse for this not to have been corrected or checked out before sending them out and it was 3 full days from my post stating there were errors before the postmark of the sent check :(

I wonder who was REALLY supposed to get the money if the PROS were taken out of the equation?

Anyways, I'm gonna frame it and put it right next to my Hall of Fame plaque that I made for myself. :)

FYI, here's the player's pack you received for your entry fee:

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/251942_327185427375648_1190285458_n.jpg

Discs: Lat 64 Saint, Discraft TI Nuke, Champ Super Stingray, DGA Undertow, mini

Towel, coozie, miscellaneous stickers, vouchers for Worlds and Innova t-shirts (shirts were handed out at player's meeting and FlyMart, respectively), FlashFlight disc light for night golf, s-clip carabiner, mini first-aid kit, bottle opener, various FlyMart and local business coupons, Tournament Program/Caddy Book, Charlotte tourism mag, Fuze drink. Plus the Innova bag it all came in.



Wow! :cool:

This was my first worlds experience (played AM1), and all in all, I am glad that I went to Charlotte. I have but one "suggestion" regarding future world championships NOT held a centralized multi-course venue ...

I believe that a previous posted in this forum or elsewhere made the suggestion of a "Pool TD" ... This would definitely alleviate some of the transition issues in moving players between courses on the same day.

However, for non-centralized city venues (ala Charlotte), I'd like to see pools that play two rounds on a specific day, do so at the same course. This may reduce the overall number of courses played, but I think it would reduce some of the confusion and logistical issues that arose last week. It would also increase the viability of a region hosting a world championship that has enough courses within an hour drive of a central location, but not enough close enough together to avoid long drives.

This was my first worlds experience (played AM1), and all in all, I am glad that I went to Charlotte. I have but one "suggestion" regarding future world championships NOT held a centralized multi-course venue ...

I believe that a previous posted in this forum or elsewhere made the suggestion of a "Pool TD" ... This would definitely alleviate some of the transition issues in moving players between courses on the same day.

However, for non-centralized city venues (ala Charlotte), I'd like to see pools that play two rounds on a specific day, do so at the same course. This may reduce the overall number of courses played, but I think it would reduce some of the confusion and logistical issues that arose last week. It would also increase the viability of a region hosting a world championship that has enough courses within an hour drive of a central location, but not enough close enough together to avoid long drives.

There are other implications of playing 2 courses in the same day. Under the current formula, after 3 days all players in a division have played the same courses, though not at the same time, and you can have the "great shuffle". Between the shuffle and the semi-final cut, everyone again plays the same courses, though not at the same times.

As best I can tell, to play the same course twice in the same day you can either (1) have no more than 2 pools in a division or (2) keep everyone in the same pools until the cut for the semi-finals. There are drawbacks to both.

Unless I'm missing something in the logistics.

I'm sure they're pondering this, but a pool TD or some reliable volunteer scoreboard-couriers, one for each pool, might alleviate the problems we had.

----now that I wrote that.....Did they have the Great Shuffle in MA1 and all multi-pool divisions this year?

----now that I wrote that.....Did they have the Great Shuffle in MA1 and all multi-pool divisions this year?

Great Shuffle happened Wednesday night for all the multi-pool divisions (it's what "screwed up" the unofficial ratings in those divisions). You're right, with multiple pools within the same division, it presents a logistics problem to do two rounds on the same course in the same day.

The current Worlds format is three rounds prior to the shuffle, then three rounds after the shuffle. So to have any pool playing the same course more than once would require only using two courses for the three rounds prior to or following the Shuffle. That works only if there are just two pools. If you've got three pools, you need three separate courses to play the three rounds. Either that, or some fancy schedule shuffling that allows four rounds to be played at a single course in a day (two rounds by Pool A, two rounds by Pool B).

There are only two divisions that have more than two pools, so that concept could work for most divisions.

The Worlds team did a good job of recruiting volunteers. There were spotters on every course I played. Most of them were sober and old enough to drive. None of the excuses for the leaderboards showing up 2.5 hours after the last round ended really make much sense.

It is really a Great Sort, not a Great Shuffle. It would be funny if they shuffled, but they don't. They sort.

They sort players within pools then shuffle players between pools, thus the traditional "shuffle" term.

It has been a while since worlds has ended. Even tough I think the overall experience was great again this year, I have one one thing that still bothers me to this day.
Angry Beaver! I do not believe this course should have been played in a worlds event. I don't know how this course ever passed the PDGA check list to be eligible for a worlds event. Most of the fairways should have failed and some of the greens. Except for a few holes I think the overall course design is poor. Cut down a couple of trees, add a Tee box and a basket, and call it a hole. If this was the case we would have thousands of courses popping up every where. It takes a lot more work to build a proper course.
It may sound like I am complaining, well it's true. I am very bitter that I had to play through the woods like that. I consider myself a par golfer, who can do what ever it takes to get par on a hole. At Angry Beaver if you get a kick off a tree, it is likely to take two strokes just get back into what they call a fairway. I understand the concept of placement shots, but on just about every hole is stupid. Take a new player to that course and their likely never to play again. How can we expect to grow the sport when courses like this are being built.
After playing this course I have learned a lot about making a fairway fair. I have now walked my course a few times and reevaluated my fairways. I took a year of walking the property that I built my course on. To make sure I could come up with the best layout possible. I have finally looked at it as a player and not just a designer. There is some work I feel must be done. Yes a couple of holes may get easier, but everyone should have a way to get par on a hole.

Angry Beaver was about the same as R.L. Smith and Hornets Nest, and similar to but longer than Wingett. On those carved out wooded holes you have to throw mids and break the hole down into manageble pieces. Just because you can throw 280 and the hole is 280 does not mean that it pays to go for the birdie.

There were a couple of holes at AB that had impossibly narrow gaps halfway down the fairway that I thought were stupid. There was that downhill shot in a tunnel that crosses an o.b. creek with an impossibly narrow gap when you get to the creek. Flying that creek was a crapshoot for players at my skill level and laying up in the narrow part of the tunnel was not a good option either. Everyone I saw play the hole just went for stupid greasy tree love. You could replace that hole with Vanna White and a wheel with the numbers 2 through 6 on it. :D

I didn't play Angry Beaver, but if it played anything like R.L. Smith then it was a completely appropriate Worlds course. R.L. Smith was a tremendous woods course, with perfectly ample fairways. If folks think that the level of tightness at R.L. Smith is somehow unfair, then they should not play disc in the state of North Carolina. Better yet, they should just go out to a wide open field and set up a basket 325 ft. away from each tee.

The rest of the country could learn a thing or two about disc golf course design by playing a round at R.L. Smith. It's easily the best new course I've played in the last 2 years.

I had a dreadful round at Angry Beaver---unofficially, about 140 points below my already pitiful player rating----but I found it a perfectly appropriate course for Worlds. I don't recall a hole where I didnt see a gap that I felt I should be able to hit, and certainly someone competing for a championship should be able to hit.

For what it's worth, it's also pretty well regarded by the reviewers at DGCR.

There's little doubt that Angry Beaver was the toughest course that the MA1 pools played (regardless of the crappy conditions on Friday). The physical design of the holes didn't bother me that much... yeah hole #8 could lose a tree or two... But the real problem at the Beaver was stupid OB rules, compounded by spotter(s) that didn't know the OB rules.

As Bruce points out #10 was a hard enough hole to hit the gap on, without a thin strip of unnecessary and random luck OB flagged creek. On that hole a very good shot got through the gap, a bad but lucky shot got through the gap. But poor shots with already bad lies had an unnecessary element of luck that they might further be penalized with an OB stroke. If you're going to do that put a DZ on the basket side of the creek.

Even worse though was OB creek on #8/18. As defined in the written rules the only OB was in the flagged creek, not beyond the creek. A poor throw landing in the creek, or a decent throw with a bad kick landing in the creek get penalized with OB strokes. But a really bad throw across the creek gets no penalty stroke. And a really, really bad throw on #8 getting all the way through to #18's fairway can play down that unobstructed. But the compounding I mention above was the spotter on #8 who would pick up [fair] discs across the creek, toss them back, and say "this is where you crossed out". I know that cost one MM1 player at least two penalty strokes he shouldn't have taken.

Saying "everyone should have a way to get par on a hole" makes no sense to me. [Ignoring the neverending discussion of "what is par?"] If you have a dog-leg right hole and the RHBH player can't throw an anny or flick does that mean you need to bore out a diagonal path through the trees just for that one player?? Designing holes such that every player can get a par would result in really boring courses.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q193/ejubin/2c.gif

I thought 8 was a random hole until I saw some guy just pitch a forehand shot about 200 feet down the fairway and off to the right. From there there is a 200 foot straight shot to set up a putt. I did that during the round throwing an anny and got a 3. Another guy in my group did the same thing but did not execute the straight shot. So that becomes one of those holes where you can break it down and settle for a good score, or just chuck it and pray.

I thought 18 was a fine hole. The grassy fairway eliminated a lot of the luck of the bad skip. I did not know that completely over the creek was in bounds on 18 and 8. A spotter picking up a disc would not cost the player any throws. Under the rules he gets to play the disc where it landed. Not knowing the rules might have cost the player some throws.

And I was not complaining about #10 because I had a bad score there. I missed a short putt for 3. It just seemed that of the 20 or so players I saw throw that hole, the results were random. I saw weak players get lucky and very good players get very unlucky. After 108 holes of disc golf the luck evens out. I suppose one dumb luck hole tests a player's mental game.

Anyone know where I can purchase leftover shirts, discs, etc with 2012 worlds stamps? I went to sunking and didn't see anything.

Anyone know where I can purchase leftover shirts, discs, etc with 2012 worlds stamps? I went to sunking and didn't see anything.

I know DD says they have nothing left, and there's no Host Committee event shirts (players pack, volunteer, staff) left either. There is discussion of doing another batch of the white w/blue Worlds logo staff dri-fit for sale. If we do it, I'll post details here.

Those shirts the TD's were wearing were sweeeeet!

Anyone know where I can purchase leftover shirts, discs, etc with 2012 worlds stamps? I went to sunking and didn't see anything.I don't think any of the vendors did much Worlds stamping. Dynamic Discs had nothing on Saturday at Worlds.

Pictures from World Championships (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pdga/collections/72157630837931662/)

Nice Pix. Thanks,

I've watched about 20 or so hours of the Worlds on discgolfplanet.tv. At first, I thought wow these are some amazing tough courses in a forest that look challenging and fun. Then after hearing the chatter online and talking to players in person who played the event, I've had some reservations. One player told me that he threw only one driver off the tee during the entire tournament. The rest of his drives were putters and midranges on 250ft holes and that most of the holes finished to the right, over and over and over.

When I first heard Avery complaining about this, I chalked it up as a player who was a little bitter with his performance. But I have to come to summize that the Worlds courses in Charlotte possibly did not provide an overall playability of all skills. I believe that if you are to host a Worlds, there should be a mix of different courses challenging all levels of skill. That includes tight wooded courses, big open fairway courses, and a mix of elevation, OB or water coming into play. An ideal course would have a mixture of all these elements.

I believe most if not all divisions had several holes on courses where they could throw full power drivers. However, they may not have been good enough to throw them safely or take the risk such that mid ranges were a better choice for them. In fact, being able to throw putter and midrange discs as far as others can throw drivers is one sign a player can play at the highest skill level and this ability should be tested by the courses.

Here's one of my favorite quotes from Jack Nicklaus, arguably one of the longest hitters in his prime. "Golf is primarily a game of precision, not power. As Jack always says, "It's a thinking man's game. That's what makes it fun." And his belief is that length in itself does not spell quality, let alone fun."

I've watched about 20 or so hours of the Worlds on discgolfplanet.tv. At first, I thought wow these are some amazing tough courses in a forest that look challenging and fun. Then after hearing the chatter online and talking to players in person who played the event, I've had some reservations. One player told me that he threw only one driver off the tee during the entire tournament. The rest of his drives were putters and midranges on 250ft holes and that most of the holes finished to the right, over and over and over.

When I first heard Avery complaining about this, I chalked it up as a player who was a little bitter with his performance. But I have to come to summize that the Worlds courses in Charlotte possibly did not provide an overall playability of all skills. I believe that if you are to host a Worlds, there should be a mix of different courses challenging all levels of skill. That includes tight wooded courses, big open fairway courses, and a mix of elevation, OB or water coming into play. An ideal course would have a mixture of all these elements.

The three courses played by MPO in the first six rounds weighed in like this:
Par 58, 6725 feet (~373 feet per hole)
Par 63, 7110 feet (395 feet per hole)
Par 67, 8843 feet (491 feet per hole)

Just on the surface, none of those courses strike me as being constituted of 250-foot putter/midrange holes one after the other. A few of those types of holes are surely part of the mix, but by no means the majority.

Of those courses, I've only played Renny (the par 67), and that course offers the players everything all by itself. There are open field bomber holes 600-1000+ feet in length, short (<300 ft) and tightly wooded holes, two-shot placement holes, OB and elevation change galore, and everything in between. You need a full complement of shots and discs to score well on that course.

From watching the online coverage, the other two courses weren't quite as diverse as Renny, but each did have a blend of a few open air but controlled distance shots and tightly wooded finesse shots.

In my experience over the years, there seem to be quite a few players "on tour" who aren't happy unless they can get through the majority of tournament course/courses by throwing hyzer bombs and making their putts. Basically, the objection is to courses that they have to learn and "figure out" to any extensive degree.

I don't think it's an accident that Ricky Wysocki and Michael Johansen played so well all week, or that Sarah Hokom won FPO. They're from the area or moved to the area and have been playing those courses for a while. They "learned" the line to hit to negotiate the hole best. Not that there are any great tricks to the holes, but it's the difference between throwing a Roc on a hole because you *think* it's the right play and throwing a Roc because you *know* it's the right play. That subtle difference in comfort/confidence makes a difference in the execution.

In general, it strikes me that if a player is complaining that "too many" holes require a certain type of shot that it is not the holes or the course that has short-comings, it's the player. I think anyone who found the Worlds courses inadequate only found them lacking in enough of the shots that they themselves are most comfortable with, because the diversity was certainly there.

The last three posts all have some good points made. I'd read the reviews on DGCR (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/) before heading to Worlds so I knew what I was getting into from a course perspective. But as a 938-rated player who learned to play on the long & open courses of Houston I will say I was somewhat disappointed that there weren't at least a couple bomber holes. Across all the MA1 courses I think Hornet's #2 is the only hole that falls into that category.

Regarding Drivers off the tee, I threw only 12 out of 108:
R1 Hornet's #2, 3, 17
R2 Kilborne #3, 16, 17
R3 RL Smith #2
R4 Winget #14, 18
R5 Angry #7, 16
R6 RL Smith #2

There may have been a few more candidates, but as Chuck said: I thought the smarter play was a more controlled midrange on those.
My complete Worlds round listing: here (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/scorebook.php?vall=1&ovcrse=&mid=519&sbmtd=1&sort=date&order=desc&vcrse=&fd=2012-07-17&sd=2012-07-20).

I'm not complaining; like I said, I knew what I was getting into. Just adding another data point. And expressing my opinion that AM Worlds 2012 favored the control player more than the past two years' AM Worlds.

I know you said "off the tee" but I'm thinking driver possible on second shot on Hornet's 12 and RL 5.

The last three posts all have some good points made. I'd read the reviews on DGCR (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/) before heading to Worlds so I knew what I was getting into from a course perspective. But as a 938-rated player who learned to play on the long & open courses of Houston I will say I was somewhat disappointed that there weren't at least a couple bomber holes. Across all the MA1 courses I think Hornet's #2 is the only hole that falls into that category.

Regarding Drivers off the tee, I threw only 12 out of 108:
R1 Hornet's #2, 3, 17
R2 Kilborne #3, 16, 17
R3 RL Smith #2
R4 Winget #14, 18
R5 Angry #7, 16
R6 RL Smith #2

There may have been a few more candidates, but as Chuck said: I thought the smarter play was a more controlled midrange on those.
My complete Worlds round listing: here (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/scorebook.php?vall=1&ovcrse=&mid=519&sbmtd=1&sort=date&order=desc&vcrse=&fd=2012-07-17&sd=2012-07-20).

I'm not complaining; like I said, I knew what I was getting into. Just adding another data point. And expressing my opinion that AM Worlds 2012 favored the control player more than the past two years' AM Worlds.

If you didn't throw drivers on 3, 6, and 18 at Hornest Nest you were either playing SUPER conservative or simply throw a lot further than 99% of golfers.

I think anyone who found the Worlds courses inadequate only found them lacking in enough of the shots that they themselves are most comfortable with, because the diversity was certainly there.

Bingo.

Furthermore, in their opinion, there basically just wasn't enough completely open tee shots for the golfers who can throw the farthest to utilize that advantage. The number of wooded holes negated that advantage.

In conversations with a few of these elite players, and from observing them, they want to be able to throw as far as they can and use that advantage off as many tees as possible. Now, they are smart enough to realize on tightly wooded holes that throwing a midrange off the tee for fairway placement is the preferred play, but nothing bothers them more then to have to do that on a large number of holes. And that's exactly what they saw at this year's Worlds courses.

Eric knew what he was getting into, but the real interesting point is how this all became such a big "surprise" to many other competitors. Disc golfers knew about Charlotte courses and how they played for years. The selection of which courses were played by which divisions was known for almost all of 2012 leading up to the event, and everyone had every opportunity to practice them. Yet nothing was said about these courses until competitors started struggling on them during the actual competition itself. It's either really interesting timing, or a little sour grapes from those a little bitter with their performances.

Bingo.

Furthermore, in their opinion, there basically just wasn't enough completely open tee shots for the golfers who can throw the farthest to utilize that advantage. The number of wooded holes negated that advantage.

In conversations with a few of these elite players, and from observing them, they want to be able to throw as far as they can and use that advantage off as many tees as possible. Now, they are smart enough to realize on tightly wooded holes that throwing a midrange off the tee for fairway placement is the preferred play, but nothing bothers them more then to have to do that on a large number of holes. And that's exactly what they saw at this year's Worlds courses.


This after-the-fact criticism isn't even exclusive to Worlds. I've got a limited scope of experience in Majors/NT/A-tiers alongside these elite players, but I don't think there's been a single one where I did not hear multiple and sometimes harsh criticisms of the course(s), usually borne of frustration with how the complainant played it. That includes instances in which the complaining player had won the event on the same course in the past. Those probably baffled me more than any other. Those tight/quirky/winding fairways, random trees, extra/random/stupid OB, etc weren't an issue when you were winning, but have one bad round and the course is complete manure. That makes sense.

I'm willing to bet there is no such thing as a unanimously approved "perfect" course and there never will be. There will always be someone who finds fault with something even if others love it. And the delineation between the love and the dislike will usually be how well one plays the hole/course/tournament.

I know you said "off the tee" but I'm thinking driver possible on second shot on Hornet's 12 and RL 5.
There's a huge variability on landing your tee shot in just the right place to enable a driver on the second shot.

If you didn't throw drivers on 3, 6, and 18 at Hornest Nest you were either playing SUPER conservative or simply throw a lot further than 99% of golfers.
Did throw a driver on Hornet's #3. Didn't on #6 because I didn't see the risk/reward benefit for me of getting within makeable putt range off the tee vs. flipping OB or fading left into the brush. It was an easy Comet down the middle, a short Rhyno upshot, and easy short putt. #18 being downhill is reachable with a mid without the risk of a driver going long OB. I just put my Comet a bit too high and it caught the left side trees, still an easy three.

[...] In conversations with a few of these elite players, and from observing them, they want to be able to throw as far as they can and use that advantage off as many tees as possible.
Having at least a few holes where throwing as far as possible as an advantage would have been a good thing, a bit more balanced I think.

finally got all the ants out of my car today from the blake parking lot!

A few thoughts I want to add...

People always think that big arms are "screwed" in the woods, but in my opinion, big arms actually have a huge advantage on wooded courses. The ability to throw a putter 300 feet, a midrange 375 and a controlled driver like a Leopard or Teebird over 400 is a HUGE advantage on the courses that Charlotte offered. There are many holes that players had to hit lines on 350 foot holes and the advantage of throwing a midrange for safety and still have a chance a birdie b/c you have the arm is a HUGE advantage. I've played A LOT of golf with David Wiggins, Jr. and you get him on a course where he has this advantage and he is very tough to beat. I was surprised at his finish, I really thought he would have finished top 10 - 15.

I've posted this on DGCR, in my opinion, completely wide open holes are way more unfair than wooded holes. People complain about luck in the woods, well, how about someone trying to throw a line 40 feet right of a basket and hyzer to the pin and yanks it 75 feet off line but then gets a nice 35 foot duece putt? How is that better than that person hitting a tree and struggling for par?

As someone who learned to play disc golf in the woods and perfers throwing a flippier disc with hyzer and popping it up (that's the way I learned, after all), the biggest mistake I see players making is trying to birdie everything. Sometimes on a super hard wooded hole, you just have to play for three.

As someone who learned to play disc golf in the woods and perfers throwing a flippier disc with hyzer and popping it up (that's the way I learned, after all), the biggest mistake I see players making is trying to birdie everything. Sometimes on a super hard wooded hole, you just have to play for three.

I'm in 100% agreement, but again, the elite golfers and the ones with the huge distance advantage want to be able to throw as far as they can and use that advantage off as many tees as possible, and they want to birdie every single hole, if possible. The idea of just playing for a three is often a completely foreign one to them, and is often portrayed by them seemingly as a crime against humanity and the very nature of golf and our sport. :rolleyes:

With ratings posted here's what I get for SSAs based on rounds for M pool, then L pool after the shuffle.

WNG = 49.6
KBN = 51.4
RLS = 52.4
H.N = 54.1
ANG = 56.9

Was looking at payouts for FPO from a different thread, and inadvertently stumbled upon something that seems odd about 2012 Worlds:

Why were the payouts smaller this year than they were for 2011 Pro Worlds?

We always figured that a Pro-Am would have a bigger payout, subsidized in part by the Am side.

More importantly - where are the payout codes for the players that cashed and were not at the awards ceremony to collect that the PDGA said have been settled with the Charlotte club 3 weeks ago?

Seems sad that 48 players who weren't there don't have their codes yet to claim their winnings :(

We always figured that a Pro-Am would have a bigger payout, subsidized in part by the Am side.

A huge misconception.

I really don't understand why people think this happens.

I could tell you why people think this but it would just be thread drift. :D

A huge misconception.

I really don't understand why people think this happens.

Because it does happen, but maybe not for Worlds?

Even if Am registration fees are not going directly into the Pro purse, there are still margins for generating money that could go to the Pro purse. For example, the Am payout/script is tallied at retail cost, but is bought at wholesale prices (and/or using discs donated by sponsors). That kind of margin could go to the Pro purse, boosting the Pro payout.

But perhaps Worlds Pro payout is restricted to only the registration fees paid by the Pros?

Anyways, I'm still a student of this stuff, I only have experience with Pro Worlds, and I'm trying to learn how everything works with Pro-Am...no need for a huge thread drift.