It's that time of the year again. The weather is cooling off, a few leaves are falling and it's time for the Oklahoma Open.

This year we will run an A Tier for all Pro and Advanced divisions. Reminder, you have to be a current PDGA member to play in a Tiers. That is the reason we are running two tiers.

There will be a B Tier for all Intermediate, Recreational and Junior divisions. Wayne Forest stepped up and agreed to run the B Tier event and I am running, with a lot of help, the A Tier.

This is a TDSA event with at least $3,000.00 added cash.

We are going to mix it up a little this year. Throw some different course sequences at you and hopefully create a challenging, fun weekend.

The A Tier will meet Saturday morning at Red Hawk. We will play Red in the morning then move to Dovillio. Sunday morning we will play Centennial, then move to McClure for a final 9.

The B Tier will play both Chandler Courses Saturday. Sunday morning they will play Dovillio then a final 9 at McClure.

I have a plan to stagger start times between the two events so the B Tier can watch the final 9 for the A Tier.

I am very excited to have Centennial in the mix. I think this is a great chance to showcase and establish it as a serious tournament course.

As always, courses are subject to change. I am trying to keep the A Tier at courses where we will have very few other park patrons to worry about.

The B Tier is coinciding with the grand opening of the new building at Chandler. It will be great to have us there to compliment the festivities.

Online sign-ups will be at www.pdgasignup.com in a few days, I hope..

Please see the flyer below and let Wayne or me know if you have any questions..

I probably forgot a few things so more to come later..


$3000.00 Added Cash !

Professional Disc Golf Association �SUPERTOUR� Event
October 24 & 25, 2009 TULSA , OKLAHOMA

A-Tier Entry Fees: (includes Ace-Pot and CTP)
( Must be current PDGA Member )
Pro FLIGHT ALL Pro Divisions $95.00

Adv. FLIGHT ALL Advanced Divisions $70.00

These divisions are playing in a �Supertour A-Tier� Event.
All Advanced division players receive a �Player-Package� ($25 value).
Registration ends 9am Saturday. Rules Meeting 9:30am at Red Hawk.


__________________________________________________ __________________________

B-Tier Entry Fees: (includes Ace-Pot and CTP)

Am/Nov. FLIGHT ALL Amateur Divisions $45.00
ALL Novice Divisions $35.00
ALL Junior Divisions $20.00

Non-PDGA members are add�l $10. (This applies to all divisions except Juniors )
All Am. / Nov. / Jr. players receive a �Player-Package� ($10 value).
Registration ends 9am Saturday. Rules Meeting 9:30am at Chandler.

ADDED CA$H / ADDED PRIZES FROM NUMEROUS SPONSORS

�Player-Packages� will be given out at Rules Meeting .
Full Schedule of Tee-Times and Courses will be given out at Rules Meeting .

TD : Michael Treat (918) 245-4644 mtreat1@cox.net

Tournament Website : www.tulsadiscsports.org

Online sign-ups at : www.pdgasignup.com

The B Tier will play both Chandler Courses Saturday. Sunday morning they will play Dovillio then a final 9 at McClure.

Alrighty then.....Did everybody hear that????

It's "Festa-vus for the Rest of Us" in the B tier!!!!

Two easy rounds at Chandler on Saturday means Friday night beer drinking at OktoberFest has been authorized!!!! Everybody meet in the big tent!!! :)

I wonder if we can get Slacks hot dog guy to show up and sell brauts and kraut on Saturday? :confused:

We wonder if you'll show up on Staurday?

Well actually I'm manning the TDSA table at the grand opening of the rec center that day. Seems the club couldn't find anyone else as qualified as me.

Obviously the TDSA did the right thing by making me the public rep for that deal.

I'm already writing my speech for when the news cameras show up to interview me. :)

Be sure to wear a collered tye dye.

Sorry but we B tier guys don't need no stinking collared shirts.

When I get in front of the camera I'm going to tell them the whole truth and nothing but the truth about you A tier guys.

None of this candy coated Wise, Devon, or Coda pro commentary as in the past.

I'm going to tell them the truth about the illegal gambling, tax evasion, and how a lot of you pro guys are hooked on steroids.

Not to mention the secret animal sacrifices to the devil you guys currently hold at Craptennial and that most all of you work for or collect money from ACORN in your spare time. :D

You need a big dose of this before your interview.


http://babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2008/08/16-22/liar%20syrup.jpg

Nah...nah...nah :p

The "spin" stops here buddy.

You guys have been freeloading off us B & C tier guys for years now.

You're a poster child for Obamacare and if I have to go on O'Reily, Hannity, or the Glen Beck show to expose the corruption then I will. :D

Sweet did not know this was happening this year might need a day off for that but I think I can swing it.

... and Avery Jenkins will be entering the Double-O ...
.
.
... another current World Champion ...
.
.
... v-e-r-y nice ...

Sweet did not know this was happening this year might need a day off for that but I think I can swing it.



When has the OO not happened?

"As always, courses are subject to change. I am trying to keep the A Tier at courses where we will have very few other park patrons to worry about." my attempts to play redhawk on weekends have always ended after the first nine, I hope you have a few spanish speaking TD's to clear the mexicans off the course.

Just have this put on a hat or wear one of these shirts and it will take care of itself.

http://www.correctional-patches.com/federal/us_imm_det_dep_badge.jpg
http://www.correctional-patches.com/federal/US%20INS.jpg
http://rlv.zcache.com/u_s_immigration_service_tshirt-p235452014525168407ohvp_400.jpg

We chose Saturday morning in hopes the situation described above would be at a minimum.

Sunday afternoons seem to be the worst time..

Maybe you could hold the INS Open out there on a Sunday.:D

Even better, make it Easter Sunday :rolleyes:

Then we could move to Chandler in the afternoon..

That's what I'm talking about buddy!!!! :D

dammmmit dave your post with the imigration badge pictures made me spew coffee on some papers in front of me. not cool

Thats your fault, you should know better by now.:cool:

ur prob right, i need to watch my drinking and browsing, its getting out of hand

I am not trying to be a pain in the you know what, I am just wondering. If the A tier and B tier guys are playing on different courses on both days, what happens if you don't have the propagator's with the 8 rounds of 799 or higher to calculate the ratings? I am only bring this up because it happened at a tournament down in Norman, ended up NO one got a rating including the Open players. This just might be something you check in to since your going to have the BIG DOGS here. No matter what though I will be there ready to play and have fun, in the B tier that is... lol:)

... all Rounds will catch "PDGA Ratings" for those scores by current-PDGA-members ...

... all Rounds will catch "PDGA Ratings" for those scores by current-PDGA-members ...
You bet, these are real "A" and "B" tier events with score reporting direct to the PDGA. Courses played by each tier is submitted with the scores for ratings calculation so tier or course rotation is in the spreadsheets:cool:

I guess it really depends on how many people sign up to play. The B tier is only Int. and below correct? I am making the trip to play in this event no matter what. I just don't want history repeating it self, like it did in Norman. The way I am reading the flyer for this event is the A tier and B tier will never play the same course on the same day. That being said if we have enough players with the right ratings play, than everything will be ok. But, if we only have 4 player that have 8 rounds of 799 rated rounds or higher the whole B tier will not recieve a rating according to the PDGA rating system. I like to bet sometime, so I guess I would bet we will have enough show up since Mike is running it. Mike your a great TD and I can't wait for this event. cya

Mike your a great TD and I can't wait for this event. cya

Brown nosing will get you no-where buddy. :)

I believe Wayne Forest will be handling the "B" tier side and reporting results to Mike who will probably be hanging with the big guns so you might want to direct a little of that Wayne's way or he might start you out in the boonies. ;)

Well, Forest if you want to start me in the boonies that is fine I will still have a great time. Just know that even though I forgot to include you in that comment it doesn't mean your a bad TD. Everyone including myself that attended Okie Doubles this year knows just how much you mean to this sport and you will always have an A++ rating in our books. :)

Thanks to Wayne the "B" side will again have full computer support and will be able to pass on results direct to PDGA headquarters.:D
OK,
So I will be there too laptop in hand and printer in tow. Happy to promote the efforts of players and staff alike.:)
Get those sign ups in early and I will have less to type on game day!:cool:

Ok, so I am trying to sign up for the event and it keeps taking me to a tournament set up site... How is going to be the best way for me to sign up call, email, or just wait till the sign-up through PDGA is up and ready for this event?

... if you call Michael , I think he's out-of-state this week (USDGC) ... he said he thought that the PDGA would have had this "online sign-up" already flying ... ... ... maybe they've been busy ... keep trying www.pdgasignup.com ...

Past Champions:


2001 Open Pro : Al Schack 3407
Pro Masters : Randy Pendleton 9945
Pro Women : Juliana Korver 7438
Advanced : Larry Gardner 22706
Adv.Masters : John Green 11572
Adv.Women : Kim Click 9961
Amateur : James Henderson 19379
Novice : Mike Adams 22158


2002 Open Pro : Cam Todd 12827
Pro Masters : Joel Kelly 9152
Pro Women : Lesli Hernadon 13526
Advanced : Adam Goodman 20004
Adv.Masters : Gary Duke 9426
Adv.Women : Linda Arbeitman 15317
Amateur : Jason Bolstead 21214
Am.Women : Misty Etheridge 21461
Novice : Jonathan Graham
Junior Boys < 16 : Rusty Glazner 21269


2003 Open Pro : George Smith 4034
Pro Masters : Mitch McClellan 3566
Pro Women : Des Reading 15863
Advanced : Coda Hatfield 23651
Adv.Masters : Kelly Watson 14863


2004 Open Pro : Barry Schultz 6840
Pro Masters : Ray Walker 5251
Pro Women : Des Reading 15863
Pro GrandMasters : Tommy Eddy 7598
Advanced : Kyle McClure 21238
Adv.Masters : Kelly Watson 14863
Adv.Women : Megan Franck 24154
Adv.GrandMasters : Steve Smith 21230


2005 Open Pro : Kevin McCoy 9453
Pro Masters : Mitch McClellan 3566
Pro Women : Des Reading 15863
Pro GrandMasters : Ron Bear 4679
Advanced : Billy Lund 24379
Adv.Masters : Ron Robertson 16479
Adv.Women : Shelly Workman 23340
Adv.Masters Women : Kim Click 9961
Adv.GrandMasters : Robert “Doc” Morton 1243
Amateur : Robert Parrish 27658
Am.Women : Melissa Stacye 27897
Novice : Jeff Paul 18584
Nov.Women : Jennifer VonAschen
Junior Boys < 19 : Randy Forsander 28735


2006 Open Pro : Nolan Grider 13219
Pro Masters : Mark Martin 2532
Pro Women : Des Reading 15863
Pro GrandMasters : Jack Wilson 1926
Advanced : Brendan Hickman 27689
Adv.Masters : James Diel 25049
Adv.Women : Shelly Smith 23340
Adv.Masters Women : Rebecca Schneider 27602
Adv.GrandMasters : David Frazier 11573
Amateur : Russ De Wolfe 10354
Novice : Mike Whitaker
Nov.Women : Jessica Clark 31115
Junior Boys < 19 : Tim Mirabel 29891
Junior Boys < 13 : Justin Lombardo

2007 Open Pro : Ron Convers 9648
Pro Masters : Vinnie Miller 5521
Pro Women : Carrie Berlogar 13815
Pro GrandMasters : Daryl Johnson 6304
Advanced : Ben Powell 21360
Adv.Masters : Shawn Hopkins 12074
Adv.Women : Ashley Hoster 32397
Adv.GrandMasters : David Frazier 11573
Amateur : Tim Mirabel 29891
Novice : Steven Kelso
Nov.Women : Elania Talbert 30804
Junior Boys < 19 : Daren Miller 33273


2008 Open Pro : Avery Jenkins 7495
Pro Masters : Chris Hutchinson 18151
Pro Women : Liz Lopez 31162
Pro GrandMasters : Daryl Johnson 6304
Advanced : Ty Fansler 24508
Adv.Masters : Steve Dig King 16035
Adv.Women : Ashley Hoster 32397
Adv.Masters Women : Teresa Duff 35301
Adv.GrandMasters : Richard Mitchell 11037
Amateur : Steven Alvis 34575
Novice : Scott Lindenau




Who will write their Name into the “Champions List” in 2009 ?

… AND … online sign-ups went “live” this morning … thanks to Karolyn (PDGA) … HOOK ‘EM UP , fellers … ya know you wanna play The Oklahoma Open … ya know you wanna “carve your name” into that “Champions List”… ya know you want your chance at the “brass ring” (or more like “golden” with the payout history) …
... get entered in s-o-o-n … get entered in NOW ! … I'm not sure how long TD Michael will keep online-signup going ... just get 'r done now and know that you're IN ... then get your Game ready ...
... ab-so-lutely cool … www.pdgasignup.com …

We are getting close!

signed up yesterday, when does the list of players start showing up? sometimes its nice to know you are "in the system"...

Paul, this is the first time I have personally used the PDGA sign up site. I sent the administrator an email asking for a list of entries..

Ok, I am looking for volunteers for the A tier. Wayne has the B Tier side covered but I am still needing help.

I need spotters and general help. Please send me a pm or call me if you can help.

This is going to be a great OO. It is a ton of work to pull this off and I certainly cannot do it by myself.

Everyone keep practicing. I am hearing rumors of some pretty big names coming to your turf so get ready to defend it!!

All volunteers, contact me as soon as possible...

Paul, this is the first time I have personally used the PDGA sign up site. I sent the administrator an email asking for a list of entries..


just voicing my opinion on the importance of having the list of players up and pre-reg up in a timely manner as it relates to out of towners deciding to come or not.

edit: got some answers to some of my questions

Pre registrations are now up..

Thanks for your patience. I should receive another entry notification this weekend, I hope!!

Will you have the players from the b-tier that have their pre registrations in up soon as well?

Can we sign up at the mini tomorrow?

Less than a week away!! Even I can't play in this bad boy, I am definitely heading out to watch. I've heard rumors of some peeps coming down for this. For sure we have the defending champ coming down. Will he repeat? Will it be a past champ? Will it be a new champ? Will T-Town hold it down? Calling Coda, calling The Dude, calling all those who think they are up to the task to take down the Jenks. This is going to be an awesome event. I can't wait to get to go out to Centennial and practice the longs on the upgraded course. It's going to be LG!!

Yes the OO is bearing down on us.

Andrew and I picked up 3 big bags of trash off Dovillio and replanted a couple of tee signs.

Walked Red Hawk yesterday, it is good to go except #1 basket is a little loose so we will get that fixed.

The courses are looking great. They were all mowed recently and with the cooler weather the grass has pretty much stopped growing.

One new addition, we will have a players party Saturday night at Crow Creek. Joyle Woody has agreed to waive the cover charge and offer some drink specials. This gives us a place for people to get together if they want.

Outside of projected rain Wednesday, the long term forecast is looking great all the way through the weekend.

We are running doubles Friday at Red Hawk. Flex starts from 3:00 to 5:30. We have to cut off early since it is getting dark earlier.

Still need volunteers. BVA stepped up after my last call but we need more. If you can't play PLEASE volunteer. Remember this is a TDSA event so we ALL want this to be a great tournament. We have a solid reputation across the country so please help make that even stronger.

Let me know if you have any questions.

The schedule is looking like:

A Tier -

Saturday morning Red Hawk
Saturday afternoon Dovillio

Sunday morning Centennial
Sunday afternoon McClure (probably a final 9 format)

B Tier

Saturday morning old course at Chandler
Saturday afternoon new course at Chandler

Sunday morning Dovillio
Sunday afternoon McClure (probably a final 9 format)

This puts us all together Sunday afternoon. I plan on starting the A Tier a little later so once the B Tier is through at McClure they can watch the Pro's and Advanced players.

Great weather, great courses all add up to a great Oklahoma Open..

Volunteers, send me a pm please..

I am not trying to be a pain in the you know what, I am just wondering. If the A tier and B tier guys are playing on different courses on both days, what happens if you don't have the propagator's with the 8 rounds of 799 or higher to calculate the ratings? I am only bring this up because it happened at a tournament down in Norman, ended up NO one got a rating including the Open players. This just might be something you check in to since your going to have the BIG DOGS here. No matter what though I will be there ready to play and have fun, in the B tier that is... lol:)

Ratings are official for that event in Norman now. It looks like you got ratings for the event.

flex start doubles? so its bring your own coda format?

Either bring your own partner or come find one...

Prices are $10.00 per team for ams and $20.00 per team for Pro's..

Hey Papa Treat. I have had a few issues signing up. Would you mind calling me at 645-4412? Thanks!

I am glad that everything worked out so everyone got there ratings for norman. Now on to bigger and better things. I can't wait to see everyone and have a really good time this weekend playing the best sport in the world. Thanks for everyone's insight on the norman issue, I think next time I will just shut up and wait on things to play out. lol

How about a final 11 so we can get it rated. Ant idea of the lay out?

Pre reg is updated for the A tier. The B Tier will be updated tomorrow.

Stay tuned..

Devons Pdga# is wrong on the Pre reg list! I know it's not a big deal but I thought i would say something!

Cmon people let's see some more pre-reg for the tournament! The more people on the list the more people will want to come and pre-reg! If you are going to go to this, get your pre-reg on.


So how are those TEEPADS coming at centennial??

I am now signed up but I don't expect that my name being there is going to attract anynone to the event. But I am going to put an AZZZ whipping on an un-named world champ.:D

Are the teepads going in? I heard rumor they might not go in? Is this true or am I hearing crap?

Centennial will not have concrete tee pads for the event. They will begin work on the new tee pads on Monday after the event. The contractor could not guarantee that they would be completed by Sunday morning, since they can't work there on Saturday and the fact that more rain is forecasted for tonight and in the morning.

So in light of that I requested that they hold off on them until after the event.

Sorry, but the weather for the last 30 days has not been good for concrete.
And just because we have had few nice days, they still have soft ground to deal with for their equipment and trucks. They were ready to begin today, but how would you feel at the event if several pads were dug out and framed but no concrete in them? I wouldn't like it, especially if its a little wet that morning.

No tee pads at Craptennial for the OO????

What a bunch of crap. :(

Nope, not tee pads until next week. When will yours be installed?

but how would you feel at the event if several pads were dug out and framed but no concrete in them? I wouldn't like it, especially if its a little wet that morning.

yeah that would suck. and so would playing the event without pads.

I love the centennial course. Especially in the longs! I want to play it in a big tournament, I think it will be a great course for even the super pros.

That being said, I think rushing it and playing this course in the OO this year is a mistake. It isn't complete yet as a course. Will this be taken into consideration for the OO? I understand that it was in the plans to play here (which I agree with, WITH PADS), but that doesn't mean we have to stick with the plan.

I have not been out to Blackhawk lately. The last time I played it was about 1 month ago. When we played it then, it was playable. Maybe it is too wet now? If that is the case... what is wrong with HUNTER PARK?? THIS COURSE IS GOOD... it would be a great course to sub in for centennial this year, until it is ready.

I think something should be done to sub out centennial for either blackhawk, hunter, or mcclure gold-ish layout (not real golds but semi-golds like last year). We could play mcclure regular or goldish and then have the final 9 still be at mcclure, with some safari layout or something.

My main concern is why the hell are we going to play a course that isn't ready yet. It will be a great addition in years to come, but not if it leave a bitter taste in peoples mouths this year with NOT having pads.

This is my opinion. I will play whatever Mike says we are going to play. However, I signed up for this tournament in advance, with the impression we were playing centennial with pads, not on those (TERRIBLE) natural pads.

Let me know if you want a refund Paul. Weather in this area this time of year is very hard to predict.

The plan is set, courses decided and we will make the best of it. Dave did all he could to get the pads in.

Moving to Black Hawk isn't a good option especially with more rain coming tonight..

yeah that would suck. and so would playing the event without pads.


My main concern is why the hell are we going to play a course that isn't ready yet. It will be a great addition in years to come, but not if it leave a bitter taste in peoples mouths this year with NOT having pads.

This is my opinion. I will play whatever Mike says we are going to play. However, I signed up for this tournament in advance, with the impression we were playing centennial with pads, not on those (TERRIBLE) natural pads.

You haven't been around long enough to know that the OO always used Dovillio with natural pads. McCoy used to argue that we needed one course with natural pads so that you will know how to play on them when you go out of town. Personally, I don't care wither way. I would like to use Centennial, even with the natural pads but its not my call. If it had pads, would it keep you from kicking and punching your bag?

And you ask why we are playing a course that isn't ready yet? Didn't seem to bother the TDs of the Green Country Open. Centennial is way more ready than that was. But if Mike has to change, I would prefer Black over Hunter for several reasons. 1. location to the other courses, 2, black offers more of a challenge, 3. players can stay at the same location all day.

And Paul Centennial is complete, just no concrete yet. It has signs, ALL 18 baskets and even with the natural pads, you won't be sloshing around in any mud, ticks, shule or poison ivy.

Paul, I did all I could to get them in for the tournament. But I'd rather not have any than having them half done. Sorry but we did all we could, I can't control the weather we have had. And the fact that the city has the entire park allocated from Friday afternoon through Saturday night for the annual harvest Festival, the contractors could not get in there to work. This has always been an issue with the OO, its at a poor time of the year for Okalhoma weather. September and October have always been wet months. Had iot not rained two weeks ago like it did, we would have had them completed. It is what it is.:confused:

You haven't been around long enough to know that the OO always used Dovillio with natural pads. McCoy used to argue that we needed one course with natural pads so that you will know how to play on them when you go out of town. Personally, I don't care wither way. I would like to use Centennial, even with the natural pads but its not my call. If it had pads, would it keep you from kicking and punching your bag?

And you ask why we are playing a course that isn't ready yet? Didn't seem to bother the TDs of the Green Country Open. Centennial is way more ready than that was. But if Mike has to change, I would prefer Black over Hunter for several reasons. 1. location to the other courses, 2, black offers more of a challenge, 3. players can stay at the same location all day.

unbelieveable...

First of all... I knew the whole "you havent been around long enough to .... " line was coming. Which, I wasn't afraid of obviously because I posted anyways.

How can you say anything about the location of courses when centennial is further away from the courses than hunter is????????? how is that a valid viewpoint at all?

GCO had pads, enough said.

I've played plenty on natual pads... what is so great about it? especially in tournament form? McCoy's opinion is his opinion... it makes you more of a well rounded player? I think not, I think it just sucks. Its nice that the OO used to be held without pads at Dovillio, but is that a standard that should be kept? Lets keep a course without pads on the schedule every year? Thats ridiculous. Let's make the tournament better by playing all courses with pads.

I understand Centennial is your "baby" but it isn't ready for a big tournament yet. Those pads suck.


to Mike:

As much as I disagree with the decision to play centennial anyways, when we have other courses that are just as good as centennial. I would not like a refund. I support the OO no matter what courses we play. I am voicing my opinion because I'm probably not the only one who feels like this. I'm sure there is WAY more involved in the behind the scenes decision to play centennial that is way over my head. So I'll just leave it here with my opinion voiced, thats all I wanted (well, and a change of plans, but apparently thats not happening).

And Paul Centennial is complete, just no concrete yet. It has signs, ALL 18 baskets and even with the natural pads, you won't be sloshing around in any mud, ticks, shule or poison ivy.

you are correct! it is almost ready to see a nice A tier..... almost......

Its cool that the OO has had natural pads in the past... this is the future.

Maybe you could at least smooth some of them out, or move them. Hole 3 comes to mind off the top of my head

unbelieveable...


How can you say anything about the location of courses when centennial is further away from the courses than hunter is????????? how is that a valid viewpoint at all?



Do me a favor College student..............drive from Redhawk to Hunter and then from Redhawk to Centennial or from Dovillio to Hunter and then from Dovillio to Centennial. Let me know the time differences.

I drive from my house to McClure in about 15 minutes or less and to Redhawk in about 8 minutes. You can't get from 91st and memorial to hunter in less than that amount of time due to the traffic out there.

And don't go off on me like its my baby and I'm defending it for the OO, I didn't propose that Centennial be used, they came to me. But from your rounds out there and the temper display of them, I can understand why YOU don't want to play out there. And don't go around saying its not complete. IT IS a complete course with natrual pads. Heck, I wasn't even planning on or wanting pads pads until next year sometime. I thought we could get them in but it didn't happen, deal with it.

But if you;re going to go around and keep publicly expressing your disatisfaction with the decision, then a refund may be in your best intrest.

Just expressing my opinion.

you are correct! it is almost ready to see a nice A tier..... almost......

Its cool that the OO has had natural pads in the past... this is the future.

Maybe you could at least smooth some of them out, or move them. Hole 3 comes to mind off the top of my head

Hole 3? don't see a problem with that one but I know hole 6 needs something.


I will flag all of them to insure the best footing possible for the players. That could be a little left, right or back. I could even put down wood chips if some one wants to cough up 18 bags at $6 per bag. That should address your footing issues.

If you think you can get enough donations to cover the cost of the chips, I will go buy them and put them out on Saturday night so they will be nice clean and fresh for Sunday morning.

I still can't beleive that we are not playing are best tournament course, Hunter. Wish it would have been thrown in the mix, it's a great park with tough 2's and lots of OB. Kills McClure, Dovillio, Redhawk, and Centennial for now. Just my thoughts though I'am not running the tourney!!! Hope everything goes smoothly... We really can't play Black, just to much water off the fairways, not fun! This should still be a good weekend hope the weather stays good and the people show!

Another suggestion is for you to run for a board position. This will allow you to put your passion to work for events like this and will allow you to understand all of the decisions that have to be made and why they are as they are.

Not being sarcastic as I usually am, I think it would be a great idea for you to run for a position.

Whatever happend to all the funds generated by selling The Eco Groove, that went to Jim Taylor and was supposed to be added to the GCO, but didn't!!! Since we as players funded that money shouldn't it come back to another tourny here in Tulsa????

Do me a favor College student..............drive from Redhawk to Hunter and then from Redhawk to Centennial or from Dovillio to Hunter and then from Dovillio to Centennial. Let me know the time differences.

Not wanting to turn this into a flamefest really. Ive got work to do today. I'm a full time employee, college grad, almost done with my MBA, and studying for the CPA exam.

You are grossly exaggerating on the time differences. Especially going to hunter on a sunday morning (like we are apparently for centennial), it is 8 miles south on 169, and 3 miles west (from 169 and 11th). It is 9 miles north and 3 (or 4?) miles east to centennial.

Time difference would be MINIMAL, guaranteed.

So don't give me that CRAP.


My opinion was already voiced, so I'm done arguing this moot point.

I agree Hunter is much tougher, but I know a consideration that always goes against Hunter is the fact that there is no bridge for crossing the creek, should there be water issues in the creek and that can happen if it rains. I don't know that it was the reasoning behind it this year but I know it has been in years past. Just like Black, if it rains, its not good. The best thing that could happen to the OO is move it to another time of the year or at least at courses that have minimal water issues.

Whatever happend to all the funds generated by selling The Eco Groove, that went to Jim Taylor and was supposed to be added to the GCO, but didn't!!! Since we as players funded that money shouldn't it come back to another tourny here in Tulsa????

It came back to you through the baskets on Moccasin Creek. The club covered the cost of those I believe.

Not being sarcastic as I usually am, I think it would be a great idea for you to run for a position.

its in the plans, for the future. I've got a lot going on right now (not that others don't who are admins). but seriously, when I am not working or studying, I am trying to play to keep my game sharp. Once I pass the cpa and finish my other degree.. it is fully in the plans to get MORE INVOLVED. For now I have to settle for just stating my opinion.

I'd love to be more involved both with volunteering time and money, but i just bought a house and car... so money is far down the list, time will hopefully be sooner.

I agree Hunter is much tougher, but I know a consideration that always goes against Hunter is the fact that there is no bridge for crossing the creek, should there be water issues in the creek and that can happen if it rains. I don't know that it was the reasoning behind it this year but I know it has been in years past. Just like Black, if it rains, its not good. The best thing that could happen to the OO is move it to another time of the year or at least at courses that have minimal water issues.

less of an issue at hunter now that they have redone some of the creek, especially the cross from 6 to 7. it is much easier now, and is the only "natural" problem at the course.

You don't have to volunteer money, just your passion for our courses and events.
I'd vote for you!

I have to say I'm with Paul on this one. I played centennial yesterday, and it was challenging. What a good course, but in my young opinion it isn't ready. The tees now have dips and bumps in them causing the thrower to choose a path to run-up while throwing. (which isn't a good thing IMO) Even if the tees were dug out, if it rains the current state is going to be wet and tuff to throw on.
Okay, it sounds like black is out for a couple of reasons. (whatever). Hunter is one of the beat courses in Tulsa and maybe one of the best in the whole state. I guess I would just like to know what the reason to not have hunter involved is. I havn't really heard a good reason to not chenge when there is enough time to do so.

less of an issue at hunter now that they have redone some of the creek, especially the cross from 6 to 7. it is much easier now, and is the only "natural" problem at the course.


Its not a question of it being easier, its a question of it being under water if it rains. And it has been that courses biggest detriment for years now.

I still can't beleive that we are not playing are best tournament course, Hunter.

from player to player, your sentiments are FULLY understood

I have to say I'm with Paul on this one. I played centennial yesterday, and it was challenging. What a good course, but in my young opinion it isn't ready. The tees now have dips and bumps in them causing the thrower to choose a path to run-up while throwing. (which isn't a good thing IMO) Even if the tees were dug out, if it rains the current state is going to be wet and tuff to throw on.


I understand your frustration however lets look at this a little closer. You only throw 18 shots form a tee pad, the rest of them are subject to where you land and if its wet, it will be a problem for every other shot that your throw and subject to your lie, however bad your footing may be, not matter what course you are on. Now I know that your tee is the most important shot, just short of your putt but its only 1/3 of your shots at best. Funny how its the younger guys complaining..........yea yea yea, yadda yadda yadda back in the day....but us older guys are used to natural pads concrete hadn't been invented when we started and all hole were uphill, both ways too.

I'm serious about the wood chips, if Mike uses Centennial, it would cost approx $110.00 with tax but I could have nice wood chip bedding put down that night before we tee in the morning.
Donations?

I'm serious about the wood chips, if Mike uses Centennial, it would cost approx $110.00 with tax but I could have nice wood chip bedding put down that night before we tee in the morning.
Donations?

what do the woodchips do? what are they for? footing on the tees? Cant say ive experienced wood chip tees before. dump some old school knowledge on me...

I'm serious about the wood chips, if Mike uses Centennial, it would cost approx $110.00 with tax but I could have nice wood chip bedding put down that night before we tee in the morning.
Donations?

I'll help support a $110 dollar donation to mike's pocket to consider moving it to hunter :D

I'm serious about the wood chips, if Mike uses Centennial, it would cost approx $110.00 with tax but I could have nice wood chip bedding put down that night before we tee in the morning.
Donations?

If you think it will help the teeing area, I am in for $20. Since we are playing this, I'm all for it being as good as it can be on saturday.

It came back to you through the baskets on Moccasin Creek. The club covered the cost of those I believe.

So baskets cost $7500?? That was the amount to be paid back!

baskets with concrete cost more than that.

Sorry, had to go home Paal, lost internet at the office. The wood chips are ground into small pieces, all pine. They are used for horse bedding in their stalls. They do soak up moister and would provide more grip than natural grass or dirt, if its wet. They would provide a footing I think you'd like. I Know its going to rain today, but if you or Josh or Coda want to come out, I'll let you pick a pad and I'll place a bag of chips on it and let you be the judge(s).

I'll kick in $20 also, thats $40 and enough for 7 bags.

I'll help support a $110 dollar donation to mike's pocket to consider moving it to hunter :D
Sorry guys but you have no idea how bad Hunter is after or during a rain.
It used to take several of us a full day to dress the creek crossing points before each event. carving steps in mud banks and re laying crossing stones in the creek bed from the wash outs. and there was never a fix for slick mud banks in some areas.
Even in it's roughest spots Centennial has NO footing issues compared to "Pre Pad Dovillo" that was an ankle breaking nightmare and the pads were never relocated to accommodate play. putting the tee pads on that course made it at lest 4 strokes easier per round for even me the natural tees were that bad.

Wise, maybe you should relocate the pads on the holes that we discussed for the pour and then just move the others a tad to fresh level ground. I am shocked :rolleyes: (NOT) that our new players only want hard pads (I always did too) But I did not get to whine my way into them and even the other major events only put down Fly pads and we know how much that costs!
better to move the pads and play old school in the grass!:cool:
My bet is that grass pads must cut into the young guns distance off the tee and they do not like that!:D

Well they seemed to like Blue valley and most all of their shots had to be crushes from the fairway. Fairway? wait, isn't that kind of like a natural tee?

Guys, I'm serious about the wood chips, get out here and we'll test it and let you be the judge.

Sorry guys but you have no idea how bad Hunter is after or during a rain.

But I did not get to whine my way into them

I have no idea because I've been playing that course as my home course for the past three years, this is clearly not enough for me to have any idea. Yes there are slick spots, but as we've seen in previous pictures of centennial it isn't exactly impervious to super rain either.

Martin, thanks for the whine comment. You single handedly made me shed tears it was so hurtful. Not...

Once again, you are reminiscing on the old days. It must have been nice without pads and sliding all over the place and slipping on rock or dips in the ground and shanking your shots left and right. Or maybe you didn't notice that it was the footing that was causing you to shank left and right (normal occurence??).

We have good courses, with pads, that aren't beind used, thats the main point. Since when is stating my views considered whining? Sorry that is how you see it. I am in full support of Mike and his decisions even if I don't agree with them. He is the one actually stepping up and TDing the event, without his actions we might not have a OO. Thats not going to keep me from speaking up, neither is your comment about whining.

Blue valley and centennial shouldn't even be in the same conversation (best tee pads ever.. SO HUGE).

The tee does account for at least half of thrown shots (not putts) for most of us and does matter.

It also is nice for the out of towners coming to have a course with pads, its one less thing they have to think about on the tee. they are trying to figure out what line/shot to take and then on top of that they have to think about how they want to run up on the uneven ground, it just makes a difference.

I thought these things were obvious, but I guess they aren't.

So are you young guns willing to get out here and test wood chips?

would tomorrow work for you? today may not be good for me... maybe young, but lacking the guns at this point in my game

I agree about having pads, I like them also but I don't have to have them. Trust me, I wanted those pads out there more than you know but,since it seems that we will be using the course, lets come up with a solution.

I'm willing to try anything.....move them slightly, wood chips, which I would prefer over trying to smoth them out. Thats going to create more footing issues by turning the dirt. I,m up for options but I think the chips will work and if You guys will get out here we can try them before last minute.

Tomorrow will work but today would be better if maybe Josh or Coda could get out here. If we can do it today and you guys don't feel it will work, then we have time to try something different.

Only 1 person here, but I hate natural pads after rain too.

The tee does account for at least half of thrown shots (not putts) for most of us and does matter.



Really? what did you shoot at blue valley?

Norman guys don't count at Centennial.......:D:D

After a big rain, black hawk is almost like palying on natural pads with 3 pounds of mud on each foot.:cool:

Instead of griping about natural pads, get on the phone and get some guys out here today. Adam, Josh, Coda, who ever that you would trust their opinion. Even if it rains here tonight, the course will be fine by Friday and we don't play there until Sunday. If we find out the chips are acceptable, then I will put them out late Saturday night or very early Sunday morning, so that we get full use of them.

Someone call a real old school golfer like Mitch Mac and see what he says...At the Mac Classic, when it rains, Mitch has put carpet down at the tee pad, it works. I know the course/holes are wayyyyy shorter at his place, but it's another option.

Norman guys don't count at Centennial.......:D:D

Maybe just the two...

Someone call a real old school golfer like Mitch Mac and see what he says...At the Mac Classic, when it rains, Mitch has put carpet down at the tee pad, it works. I know the course/holes are wayyyyy shorter at his place, but it's another option.


Another good option. we have a couple of carpet stores here in town and I have fairly big roll in the garage. I bet I could get some remnants we could cut to size. But I would like to try the chips first. maybe I could bring a piece of carpet with me and we can try them both at the same time.

Come on Dorries burn those phone lines up, lets get this figured out today!

Another good option. we have a couple of carpet stores here in town and I have fairly big roll in the garage. I bet I could get some remnants we could cut to size. But I would like to try the chips first. maybe I could bring a piece of carpet with me and we can try them both at the same time.
bring railroad spikes or that could become a flying carpet the way some players run up on a tee:D

Hey, Avalanche Kenny!!!.....Quit trying to rip everyone off and put money into your pocket. There's a city parks place one or two miles east of 169 in north Tulsa where you can get all the free wood chips you want.

I don't think they make a better tee pad though. Hard pads are the only true equallizer. Without them your distance goes down because you end up worrying about your plant foot and twisting an ankle.

An as an official "old guy", I will always prefer cement pads. :)

The free wood chips are no good, they are WAY too big and have wood chunks in them. The ones I'm talking about using are made for the horse stalls for their bedding. Much smaller and more asorbant. They cost $5.70 for a bag that has, I think 7 cubic feet in them. One bag is ideal for one tee pad. I know because I bought 10 bags yesterday for about $62 with tax.

Since you're not playing your opinion means nothing on this one.

I too will be unable to make it out there. Tomorrow would work for me. I'm all about trying to make the course as good as possible. If that works, then let's go for it. What about the stuff that was used on the island course pre-tee pad? Why is the price on that stuff?

Free is better than $110, but if necessary, I can chip in some dough. I too much prefer cement tee-pads, but the only real problem I have with natural pads is the uneven and often muddy ground. I think that either allowing to tee from the side of the pads or putting wood chips down would be sufficient. Wise, throwing a shot from a natural pad and throwing a shot from the fairway are different because everyone throws from the tee-pad. This causes natural pads to be awkwardly worn.

Who said I'm not playing?

We "B" tier hacks don't give a crap because we're used to sloppy seconds.

You "A" tier guys should have the best possible t-pads though or else some of you will blame your lousy round on the tee-pads and the course which in this case is YOUR baby. :)

It really will be remembered as Craptennial then. :D

As the course TD and considering that you're a horse guy, I think it should be you to "pony up" the expensive chips as part of Craptennial's official contribution to the OO. I already know that you know how to deliver it and shovel it out so personally paying for it shouldn't be that big of a deal. :confused:

That was chat or screenings used at the lodge and I really don't want to use it plus screenings are not that cheap either, then there are the issues of getting equiment to get it on the course. Like I said earlier, we will flag them so that you have the best footing possible. But I still think the chips would be an added benefit over just grass or dirt.

They can get glad in the same pants they get mad in for all I care. I am not the TD for this event. And as for what I do or have done at Centennial, trust me I've ponied up pleanty of $$$. The biggest difference between you and I is that I actually go out and work on the course in addition to the $$.

I'm just trying to offer solutions to the pros complaints. Honestly I feel it would be fine as is but I'm willing to try and answer their issues. But they need to get out here before its too late to do anything but complain.

Really? what did you shoot at blue valley?

i was talking about your padless course, not blue valley. but even talking about blue valley, i shot 67 which sucked real bad, considering most of the over strokes came in the last 5 holes. actually, counting back the strokes, it would be pretty close to even on the number of tee shots and fairway shots. and if you dont believe me, i will recount each shot for you. i took ob strokes, 3 putts and 70ft layups that dont count as fairway shots. i bet i threw about 5 more fairway shots than tee shots.

The local advanced players as well as local pros would benifit from a finer chip product than the city free selection.

TD Kenny,

The TDSA has already put over $2000+ into this and that's not including all the volunteers time and effort. The least you do is not play and volunteer to lay your body down over the muddy tee pads and let the young big arms tee off your backside. They are the future of Disc Golf you know????

Geesh!!!!.....What a total ingrate you are. :confused:

Thats what i think also Brad. I just need them to try them before I do all 18 holes.

just FYI to everyone, martin isn't as much of a bad-A as he might seem in the pub forum. he sent me a nice heartfelt apology in a PM and asked to fluff my pillows for a week to make up for being a jerk.

TD Kenny,

Geesh!!!!.....What a total ingrate you are. :confused:


Sorry, I haven't played the OO in 4 years due to volunteering. I remember last year you didn't come out for the entire weekend. Not volunteering or coming out to watch and YOU'RE a TDSA administrator.:eek:

I am playing and volunteering. The parking lot flagged off, tee pad areas marked and water will be out there before the first player, other than myself. When's the last time you were up on a Sunday at at 5am to make sure its all ready? When is the last time you were EVER up at 5 am?

just FYI to everyone, martin isn't as much of a bad-A as he might seem in the pub forum. he sent me a nice heartfelt apology in a PM and asked to fluff my pillows for a week to make up for being a jerk.

Well you **** sure won't get that out of me, you whiney little shiet!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

Well you **** sure won't get that out of me, you whiney little shiet!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

I say... less acting like a tough guy, and more pouring pads!! Wee!

How about we just get you your own pad. It even has wings to help your shots out there since you can't get them off the ground.:cool:


http://www.moonpads.com/Images/reg_pad.jpg

We could even get you one of these as your caddy, that way you can save your bag and knock out your caddie.:D

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/eduwonkette/upload/2008/02/bozo-the-clown-bop-bag.jpg

hey dave, are the players and staff confined to the parking lot or will the city let you set up an area by the shelter?

Theres a lot of discussion on centennial park here....it's late in the game to be complaining about the course....as for me i have played for some time now with alot of the regulars....we have played several events at different courses with out tee pads....dovillio, pawhuska, ymca boys club, haikey creek....all in different weather....the players were aware of the conditions and if they didn't like the conditions they still made the best of it....its no different playing in the wind, rain, snow....with or with out tee pads....if it makes you play lesser of a game its going to make others game suffer just as well....my opinion.

Parking for players and staff will be near the shelter and hole 1.

Got quiet in here....Dorries must have left.:cool:

I think Paul made a good point in saying that despite disagreeing with having a tourney round of the Double O without concrete pads, that he supports Treat's decision and the Double O. I totally agree.
I also appreciate Dave getting Centennial in the ground and for that matter all his help at other courses including helping put Hunter's concrete pads in. We really need more pros getting involved in being board members for TDSA and doing the volunteer work on courses and helping run tourneys (myself inlcuded).
With that being said I think Hunter should be used for the Double O, just so we can gauruntee to not have to play on slick, muddy pads. I have never been at Hunter and not been able to cross over the creek (maybe this happens in a flash flood, what would the creeks at Centennial be like in a flood?). I played on natural pads for 13 years in Austin & Wimberly - they were not good, especially in the rain, wood chips or not.
My plan is to be prepared to play in any conditions, including muddy pads etc. I would suggest that all players be prepared for this, including those playing at Moose Run on natural pads there.

Hey Dave , if you or TD Treat need some carpet for your course . I have some at my work from when they replaced it . It is new carpet , but is office carpet so it is small pile style. I can bring a roll up there if you need it . If the chips work I would also like to pitch in $20.00.That being said , I cant wait to play this no matter what course's are used or what tee pads we have to tee from. My game has been so bad lately (just look at my rating,I think Duff is better ) God that was hard to say. j/k Duffman. I will be up there friday sometime because a couple people I know want to play Centennial before sunday. Let me preface this with this isnt sucking up but I know the Tdsa will figure this out and Most people will be very happy with this tourney , scores maybe not but the tourney will no doubt be great.

Mickey (frodo ) B.

NOT TO MENTION... when it rains a medium amount to a lot... redhawk 9 and 10 become small LAKES... for all the complaints about if/when it rains.. this hasn't even been mentioned.

Redhawk is a nice compliment to blackhawk, but standalone doesn't even compare to hunter in enjoyable play.

nice to see some other players other than myself are in support of hunter park, whether or not centennial, blackhawk, redhawk is played... the support stands for hunter, which is good. that course is legit now that the pads have been moved.

As for Hunter, there are other things to consider.... are there any other events going on out there? Will biscuit acres over run the parking lot? Will there be baseball or knights slinging swords on hole 18 and if it rains will the creek even be passable?

Even in light of all that, Treat has said it is was it is and it will be played there. he is the only one that can make changes.

Sorry but if it rains, Red will suck, Dovillio will suck, Centennial will suck and so will McClure. And once the pads are wet they are not that much better. There are several pads in town that when wet are worse than natural. If you don't agree, then why do most of us tee to the side at McClure when its wet out?

I see it this way, you're playing Red and Dovillio on Saturday and you're playing Centennial on Sunday.....prepare for it.

To answer your question Cris about Centennial in heavy rains. The last heavy rains we had a few weeks back, the creek did not come out of its banks. There was some standing water on 1, 5 and 7.

In addition to that any of you could have campaigned for Hunter well before now. As it is now, I don't see the line up changing.

Now is anyone going to come out and try the wood chips? I need to know so that I can go to the barn and pick up a bag.
I'm getting ready to leave for the day so let me know. 232-8562

Sorry, I haven't played the OO in 4 years due to volunteering.

I am playing and volunteering. The parking lot flagged off, tee pad areas marked and water will be out there before the first player, other than myself. When's the last time you were up on a Sunday at at 5am to make sure its all ready? When is the last time you were EVER up at 5 am?

You didn't volunteer for the last for years because if you had I would have seen you. You shouldn't confuse taking your kid to soccer tournaments as volunteering.

As far as "When is the last time I was EVER up at 5 am?" Try three years, Chandlerstock, both Saturday and Sunday morning. Where were you? :confused:

I too will be unable to make it out there. Tomorrow would work for me. I'm all about trying to make the course as good as possible. If that works, then let's go for it. What about the stuff that was used on the island course pre-tee pad? Why is the price on that stuff?
that stuff was some type of oilfield lease maintenance material and would probably cost too much. I liked the old track material that we used to have cinder on a hard clay base but that takes longer to set up than a concrete pour and is just as picky about weather when you are setting it up.
Best bet may still be relocated tees to fresh grass and bring turf shoes for that round.

if I knew that we needed to campaign to play one of the best courses in town, I would have. We know Coda thinks hunter is one of the best, hes been saying it ever since the changes early this year.

there is no reason for it not to be considered. every course has its issues... dovillio is probably the only one that is "steady." When centennial gets pads I see it being pretty steady as well. But we are playing 3/4 courses for the OO... why wouldn't hunter be considered??

we didn't think we'd need to campaign ahead of time, you thought there would be teepads out there.

the fact as I see it is, you made the announcement a while back that pads would be put in early october, the treats (in light of that fact) agreed to include it in the OO. Now, due to weather, we are unable to have pads there. What would be wrong with saying, due to weather issues, we are changing the course from centennial to hunter. Nothing is wrong with that!

I agree wise, if it rains is not the issue, we need to be prepared for rain. but we can prepare ourselves for the rain by playing a course with pads and not uneven (some) natural pads.

It really doesn't matter which courses I picked, someone would complain. Being TD is a thankless job and I understand that. You like Hunter, so do I. It also happens to be your home course, do you have a bias because of that? That is where you Crowl and Hunt learned to play. Thats fine, but trust me somehow that just didn't account for much when I made the course selections.

I wanted this years OO to be played on courses where we would have the least interference with other park patrons. I was concerned that Hunter, arguably one of the top courses in Tulsa would have issues with other park patrons. With the addition of the dog park and the heavy amount of usage by patrons that have absolutely no idea what you're doing out there with a frisbee in your hand, could cause real problems. They also rent the shelter months in advance, most of the time.

If you think about it, Red Hawk Saturday morning will be empty. Dovillio, the closest thing we have to a private course. Centennial, a few walkers but no where near the traffic of Hunter. McClure, pure tradition and a course where I can get both Tiers on the same course the same day. The B Tier is looking forward to seeing the top guys play.

No decision I make will suit everone, understood. Please keep in mind, we thought the pads at Centennial would be done, actually they will be albeit a day late.

I have spent a ton-o-time to give you guys the best experience I can. Are you waking up in the middle of the night thinking what the heck have I forgot, worrying about it? No, all you have to do is make sure your game is ready and show up.

Now, Joel Woody has made arrangements for us to have a players party Saturday night at Crow Creek. He is waiving the $5.00 cover for all disc golfers and he will have a few drink specials. This will give everyone a place to congregate and talk about their rounds.

I will be at Red Hawk Friday afternoon at 3:00 to take sign-ups and run doubles as previously mentioned. PLEASE try to swing by and sign-up Friday. If we have a ton of sign-ups Saturday morning it could delay our start time.

Now, one more thing. Based on last years attendance of 132 players, there is a chance that the A Tier will have more than 90 players. If that happens I am going to send the Advance division to Dovillio after the players meeting. They will come back to Red Hawk in the afternoon. It's a double edge sword. I hope to have a bunch of players, but I really want to keep the A Tier together. We will see what happens.

A little more good news. Dynamic Disc is going to do a special CTP deal. Jeremey sent me the details, most of which I forgot, but I will post more and I can tell you it sounds like a cool deal.

So to recap, I picked the courses I thought were best based on the best challenge and the least interfence from other park patrons.

The players pack for Advanced and down will be very well received.

Pro's fields can expect at least $3,000.00 added cash.

Players party/get together Saturday Night at Crow Creek.

Dynamic Disc special CTP offer.

Twisted Joe, always something saucy coming your way from him.

Darly Johnson is donating $100.00 cash and bringing some Daryl dollars for the ring of fire. Dynamic Disc, LSDisc and others donating to the ring of fire.

Guys, thats the best I can do. My tournaments may not be the most flashy, but there on time, scores are right and no drama, hopefully.

See you Friday!!!

MTreat,

Thanks for everything that you do. I'm looking forward to this year's OO! My first tournament ever was the 2006 OO, and it holds a special significance for me. I'd be happy to play it in a cow pasture using macerated cow patties for tee pads and using random objects for targets - I'd just bust out the cowboy boots and cowboy up for the event!

Very well said Jim. We should be really thankful we're all healthy, get to participate in this great sport, hang out with buddies and have a good time.

A lot of people can't say the same thing right now..

Dr. Jim has a good point, the OO was also my first tourney in '07. I really hope that I am able to make it for this one. Having a big tournament in my home town, that's awesome.

I do appreciate what you are doing Mr. Treat. I have no idea what happens on that end of a tournament. Someday I hope to be able to know. I'm sure it's way more work than I would have ever expected. I also hope to be able to be in a position to voice my opinion on the board in the future.

With all that has been going down on the board and around town I hope that all can enjoy this weekend. I'm sure everyone will!! The plan is to go out and test the wood chip tee-pads tomorrow afternoon. If it is a better tee-pad then I hope we can get some people to throw in a few extra bucks to make this course as good as it can possibly be.

Now if we can gets those kids that keep finding those discs in the water out on waters edge and retrieve them the second they go in so we don't have to play the rest of the round w/o them, then I really think we would have a winning setup. What do you think Wise??

Thanks for calling me back Mike. I deleted your number on accident but your call back and concern was enough for my name to pop up on the pre reg list after my registration effort went south. I'll see you on Friday for dubs. Thanks.

Ok

First of all I have played hunter in the pouring rain and still been able to cross the creek and not real muddy its more of a clay.
I have played several sunday mornings, and The time we would be playing I have never seen the parking lot full till well after noon,and the course is never busy on sunday mornings. and the drive on sunday morning from hunter to redhawk I make in 15 minutes no traffic at all

I appreciate everyone considering my park a great one I have been working on it as much as I can . and early in the disscussion it was being considered but I guess its too hard for most people .
oh wait this is an A tier huh!!

I am ok with playing cent. park but the arguments make it seem like hunter is BAD to play on I just don't get it I think everyone dissing my park is CRAP. its just excuses !!!!!!!

Heck most people dont even want to drive to hunter for a MINI I think they are skeeeerd

oh by the way I dont even know why you guys are talking rain for the weekend none of the weather guys are talking rain for the weekend!!!!!

just wasted a lot of time, im done with this...

yay OO

http://brainstorming.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/emoticon.jpg


See you guys this afternoon.:cool:

Jerry, wasn't trying to dis your park. And not really trying to defend mine. Just defending the no tee pad thing and trying to tell them its no big deal. Trust me, had they moved it to Hunter, then I wouldn't have to go out there Saturday night and early early Sunday morning to make sure everything is where it should be, flag the tees and put out water. Having it at Hunter SAVES me some work.

And yes, Paul, Centennial was chosen on the basis it would have new concrete and had I been able to control that, I can gaurantee they would have been finished. But I'm having to rely on contractors and their ability to work within the weather we have been having for the past month. That hasn't helped. Then when they are ready, the city has the park to itself for two days, that I also have no control over.

The only upside I can give you, is that we are all playing from the same spot and if the wood chips work to your satisfaction, then I will put them out fresh and only up to 90 throws will taken from each one, so they should hold up for the one round.

Beleive me, with all these traveling pros coming in, I WANTED concrete, now I'm going to hear about just another partially completed course, when they don't have any idea on how fast that course has come together and what it will be like just a week or two after they leave town. Not what I had planned for.

Maybe we can get this figured out this afternoon.
Thanks for coming out today.

Beleive me, with all these traveling pros coming in, I WANTED concrete, now I'm going to hear about just another partially completed course, when they don't have any idea on how fast that course has come together and what it will be like just a week or two after they leave town. Not what I had planned for.

you just nailed my MAIN concern and reason for speaking up. the pros and also the advanced players that come from out of town are probably going to have a worse experience at their first time in Owasso than we would hope for. It might lead them to consider not coming in the future if we use centennial.

people come back at me like I am advocating hunter because I want to play there. Its never been about ME in these posts, im thinking about the play quality of the out of towners and their experience.

For this event.. I'm housing 4 guys from missouri and 2 from texas... for free so they can have a more enjoyable experience. maybe even some from kansas is they decide to come, not sure yet... don't think im arguing my viewpoint just for my own personal satisfaction.

I'm just hoping its like in the past, you know, the old days, when they played Dovillio with no pads and came back every year, knowing it had no pads.

hope is all we have at this point...

Well I guess it's CRAPtennial for the "A"'s. :(

Jerry I agree with you. Hunter is a tougher course but obviously Wise has made another payoff just to get to play on his home field. :confused:

Since it's Sunday everybody can probably expect a short sermon from his preacher followed by a passing of the hat for more funds for Craptennial benches and trash cans.

In the mean time it will be "Festavus-for-the-Rest of Us" in the "B" tier at Furdog's Mountain. :)

$3000+ added cash into the "A" tier.

A big fat "zero" to the "B" tier but that's ok.

We "B" tier guys play for the one true thing in life that really matters.....and that is shinny new plastic. We are even willing to pay more for it and have the profits go to those super pro guys in hopes that someday they will see the light and get real jobs and quit sucking off mom and dad's social security.

We deal with the baggers and the guys that poach in our divisions.

We have no problem with natural pads because we are the true naturals.

We love Crow Creek but before we finish the night there, we party at Oktoberfest with Thong, the Chicken Dance, and the Helga's.

We show up at awards and yell "oohh" and "aahh" when the super pro takes his prize.

We are called the "B" tier because we are the best Disc Golf reps and without us, there would be no "A"'s. :D

You are starting to make the B side of it sound more fun. But I am forced to play in the A due to ratings.

You are starting to make the B side of it sound more fun. But I am forced to play in the A due to ratings.

Well get ready because I'm sicking the Mormons, The 7th Day Advents, the Holly Chrishna's, and what's left of the Jim Jones Peoples Temple on your course on Sunday morning.

Not to mention paying some of the old lady neighbors to call the cops and complain about the hippy's parking on the grass and having a Potoberfest in the parking lot.

You can still move to the "B" side buddy. Just wear a disgust and Wayne will never know. :D

You play with the "A" 's and that means no happy birthday Friday night chicken dance for you. :(

Mike, when is pre registration going to close?? I have a couple of guys from here in OKC that are going to sign up afterwork today. If I need to I will tell them to just sign up tomorrow at the doubles round.

I think the pre reg will stay open throogh this evening.

At this point I would rather they sign up Friday at doubles..

Ok, Thanks I will have them come and see you tomorrow at the doubles...

I plan on being at Centennial at 4 today, for anyone that wants to try woods chips at the wettest the pads will be before the OO. Plus we have 3 days coming with no rain.

Mike Treat you always do a great job and im sure this years double O will be of no exception. I am looking forward to this weekend (i like centennial)

I am looking forward to fun and fellowship this weekend. For those out there that are playing for the cash, prize,or win, I wish you the best of luck. I feel fortuate to have the $$$ to play, the heart thats still pumping, and a new community to cal home that has welcomed me with open arms. Cmon OO! Its time for a little fun! Im feelin an Ace!

Just got done playing Red Hawk... Lot's of water on the course!! Couldn't play 5+ drives due to the water... Hopefully we won't get any more Rain and it will dry up a little! Hole 1 basket is broke and needs some work. Other than that it was a good round... Wish we could use some of the wood chips from the city and surround some of the tee pads where water is an issue, I will be out there early tomorrow so maybe is somebody with a truck could get some of the Wood chips I would help spread them out. It would help alot!!!

I am looking forward to fun and fellowship this weekend. For those out there that are playing for the cash, prize,or win, I wish you the best of luck. I feel fortuate to have the $$$ to play, the heart thats still pumping, and a new community to cal home that has welcomed me with open arms. Cmon OO! Its time for a little fun! Im feelin an Ace!

bring that feeling to the lodge for the team event, the ace pot should be a big one.

I was out there earlier as well and first throw of the day....CHA CHING!!! Ace'd #1! Shot -2.. pretty solid round despite all the water. This is going to be a great weekend! Maybe I can get lucky like Gumby and get me a Birthday Ace this Saturday!!!:rolleyes:

Good luck to all my OO friends, I hope you play well. Thanks to all the people that help put this on. I am going to have to miss it this year so the Adv Masters field is wide open. Play well my friends and travel safe! Keep the Championships in state this year!!

Now back to your regularly scheduled whinning! lol
Who cares where its played we got a "A" tier event in state!
Jerry one of these days we will get a tournament at hunter...

good luck and happy b-day if anybody can u can good luck to all this weekend

I was out there earlier as well and first throw of the day....CHA CHING!!! Ace'd #1! Shot -2.. pretty solid round despite all the water. This is going to be a great weekend! Maybe I can get lucky like Gumby and get me a Birthday Ace this Saturday!!!:rolleyes:

Wow another ace Seth. You must have a deal with the devil:) How many is that??? Looking forward to this weekend. I'll do my anti rain dance.

Wow another ace Seth. You must have a deal with the devil:) How many is that??? Looking forward to this weekend. I'll do my anti rain dance.


Haha! Maybe there is a deal with ol' Lucifer...! Makes it 11 Aces in 2 months 16 days..!:eek:

Good luck to all my OO friends, I hope you play well. Thanks to all the people that help put this on. I am going to have to miss it this year so the Adv Masters field is wide open. Play well my friends and travel safe! Keep the Championships in state this year!!

Now back to your regularly scheduled whinning! lol
Who cares where its played we got a "A" tier event in state!
Jerry one of these days we will get a tournament at hunter...

it was wide open even if you were to play!!!
just jokin dude
why you not play?i'm on the other side again this year, my game got so much better watching all the shots on hole 14 last year i figured get to the next leval and watch some more.

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on in a while and I hope this isn't too late but as for the inquiry about the screenings we used at the lodge pre-teepads, you can get a dump truck load for a couple of hundred bucks and I could bring the mule down to transport to tee pad areas. This may all be too late like I said but if it isn't and I need to help make this happen then I would need to know tonite.

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on in a while and I hope this isn't too late but as for the inquiry about the screenings we used at the lodge pre-teepads, you can get a dump truck load for a couple of hundred bucks and I could bring the mule down to transport to tee pad areas. This may all be too late like I said but if it isn't and I need to help make this happen then I would need to know tonite.

from what I heard, the woodchips worked pretty good, but I will let Wise speak up about the screenings

Yes it is wide open, Cam is out with knee problems, Chris W. is not playing and I wont be there. If duff is the only one that signs up again he could have 2 wins this year!! I am going to get in some rounds in Colorado Springs. I wish I could make it though. And its always open if I am playing.... Hopefully the hobbit brothers will show up and play well. I didnt know you were watching my shots on 14 or any other hole for that matter! lol

Dave met Josh and Adam today at Centennial. They tested out the wood chips and said they worked great.

Either course at Mohawk carries the risk of some water. I be Black Hawk is pretty damp about now as well.

Hopefully we will get some sunshine and a little wind to dry things up.

As for the basket on #1, I walked all the courses last Sunday and noticed it was really lose at the welds. Brad is going to be out there tomorrow and weld it back.

Thanks for reporting it though, that would have made for a rough Saturday morning for the old TD.

We will be at Red Hawk tomorrow from 3:00 until???

See you then..

Anyone want to buy some new disc?

I have lots of new plastic I am trying sell to make some money so I can play this weekend! If you need any disc lmk and I will bring it with me when I come up to Tulsa Friday/Saturday morning!

Josh Crowel and Adman Hunt tested the wood shvings. I should say shavings because they are not chips as one might think. We layed an entire bag on hole two and tested it with about 2 inch of shavings. The end result was that a very fine layer of shavings works best. If a player drags a foot and uncovers the dirt, there will be a pile of shavings near the tee pad and a player can just throw a handfull down and its perfect. This was tested at the course with water and slick tees being the worst it could be and it passed. with at least an A-. Only concrete could get an A+.

Now don't get me wrong, its not concrete but according to Josh and Adam, these will be great. Pleanty of traction, both of them said they are A Okay with the shavings. So I think that that problem has been addressed.

Now if Paul doesn't shoot good, its not because of the pads.:cool:

A big thanks to Dave, Josh and Adam for finding a good solution.

Final pre reg's are posted..

Come to Red Hawk starting at 3:00 for sign-ups and doubles.

Last doubles card probably around 5:30 due to darkness...

Thanks to all, I can't wait to see some plastic flying...

Wise you didn't need to go there.....you just put the right amount of seasoning in the pot.....and then added more.....keep stirring....

It is now officially OO eve!!!! :D

Years ago in medevil times men gathered to wage war upon the field of battle but knowing the might die that day of mortal wounds, they celebrated life the night before by consuming food, beer, and doing the chicken dance.

Um-pah, um-pah, um-pah, um-pah!!!

Roll out the barrel,.....we'll have a barrel of fun!!!! :)

Now if Paul doesn't shoot good, its not because of the pads.:cool:

because me shooting good was my sole reason for posting in the first place. okay.

sorry i had to bring a serious problem out in the open, and look what happened, its not a problem anymore. what do you know.. when people aren't afraid to speak up and talk about issues, good things actually come of it?? what a coincidence.

hopefully it will be a more pleasant experience for those coming from out of town and trying centennial for the first time.



gonna be fun playing some dubs with adam tonight... havent played a dubs event with him in a while.

Let the OO fun begin!

Wise you didn't need to go there.....you just put the right amount of seasoning in the pot.....and then added more.....keep stirring....

hes knows exactly what hes doing....

See Paul, just because I like to argue with you doesn't mean I'm not open to solutions.:rolleyes:

Just let me know which hole would be best to locate this for you.

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2008/03/01-07/everlast-bag-amazon.jpg

Just let me know which hole would be best to locate this for you.



woah.. WOAH! that doesnt look like something I would be into... lets leave your "toys" out of this discussion... i dont wanna know what you use that for... heck.. i didnt even know Everlast made those...


next time you ask me which hole i want something located, im gonna knock the **** outa you.. i dont care how old and gray u may be

Settle down boy, thats a blow up punching bag. Don't bring your hidden guilt issues into this.:eek: I was asking what golf hole you wanted it on to punch at.

Now you've gone and jumped out of the closet on us.:D

^
^^
^^^
^^^^
I
I
I
I
I
I
Too Funny!

I'm still laughing at him taking it the wrong way.:D:D:D:D

Settle down boy, thats a blow up punching bag. Don't bring your hidden guilt issues into this.:eek: I was asking what golf hole you wanted it on to punch at.

Now you've gone and jumped out of the closet on us.:D

i rest on my previous statement... you are the one propositioning here...

if that really is a punching bag (although coming from you, i find that hard to believe) you can set it right next to the ..........

http://www.choiceshirts.com/images/PL/-9/PL-90184A-md.jpg

just incase i miss it ;)

I'm still laughing at him taking it the wrong way.:D:D:D:D

think of my internet sarcasm as evolved... i wouldn't expect a lesser organism to understand it... you may have 8000 posts here, but Ive got you slaughtered in online trash talk time old guy

Dude.....Even I knew that was a punching bag. :D

Dude.....Even I knew that was a punching bag. :D

yes, you have both made it clear that you have pea sized brains, i wouldn't expect the two members of the forum idiot side show to understand my sarcasm.

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I'm looking for a doubles partner today at Red Hawk if someone is available to play around 4:30pm.
Cris

Yes we tested the Wise theory and low and behold it actually works. I was definitely skeptical at first but after a few heaves I was impressed. I really turned into a couple and felt very confident that I wouldn't be slipping. But just as a reminder, it may still be wet out there, so one really shouldn't be trying to rip shots with all their might. You could still slip and even fall. I mean, it could be wet! So, all in all, Wise has come up with a solution that, IMO, has passed and Centennial will play just fine.

Any Avery sightings yet?

Saw Avery throw hole 12 at dovillio yesterday.

Big hyser and skipped and hit bottom of cage.

... in case any B-Tier entrants have signed up Friday ; two things :
.
... your players-pack will be at Chandler Saturday morning ...
.
... and your Saturday Schedule is :


Saturday Oct. 24

7:30am till 9:00am Registrations Chandler Park
9:30am Rules Meeting Chandler Park

10:30am 1st ROUND Tee -at- CHANDLER PARK

2:30pm 2nd ROUND Tee -at- CHANDLER PARK
.
.
.
... the Sunday details will be in your players-pack info ...

If duff is the only one that signs up again he could have 2 wins this year!! I am going to get in some rounds in Colorado Springs. I wish I could make it though.
If your skeered Mike just say it....you don't have to leave the state.:p Travel safe and prepare for a beating at the lodge...we'll miss you this weekend

Saw Avery throw hole 12 at dovillio yesterday.

Big hyser and skipped and hit bottom of cage.

Shots like that he will finish in the top 10 for sure.

I am looking this way.

Emac
Cale
Coda
JD
Avery
Crispin
Dude
Brandt
Ulli
Hickman or Rusco
Throw in a Ron Convers someplace depending on how the putter is working.


There is your top 10 er 13?

Pre reg is updated after todays sign ups...

Registration ends at 9:00 sharp.. Fun to follow..

See you there, Red Hawk that is!!!!

And the Game begins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go to your home.. Disc!!!!! LOL!!!

Shots like that he will finish in the top 10 for sure.

I am looking this way.

Emac
Cale
Coda
JD
Avery
Crispin
Dude
Brandt
Ulli
Hickman or Rusco
Throw in a Ron Convers someplace depending on how the putter is working.


There is your top 10 er 13?

no nikko?....no redding?....no donkey?....I knew I wouldn't make the list....

counting the yeti out is never a good idea :P and if nikko is here.. yeah. nuff said :P n

Nikko isn't on the list.

I skipped over Yeti, maybe the 923 rating had something to do with that?

Good luck to all.

How about Avery, Tank, Nikko, Cale, Jay Reading, Paul Uli, McCabe to name a few!

If someone were to come watch the Big Boys, when would be the best round to do that?

Yeti's profile is linked to another player...no 923 for him

Yeti's profile is linked to another player...no 923 for him

No kidding? I thought maybe he took a big hit in the last ratings update. :)



What happen today? Where are the results?

If someone were to come watch the Big Boys, when would be the best round to do that?
sunday a.m. at centennial in owasso then to mcclure in the afternoon

Sorry to hear Yeti hurt his arm.

The scores for a Tier are up. We had a fantastic day, 93 players..

Short players meeting in the morning at centennial, 8:30 am sharp..

After that, tee times at McClure for a radical final 9.

We have the reigning World Champ, Avery, USDGC champ Nikko, and don't forget about the advanced master world champ. Joe Rotan..

This is one the best fields Tulsa has seen in years.

Come out and enjoy tomorrow..

... indeed , it wasn't right to see Jay Reading without his Golf Bag stopping by the Chandler Mountain for a visit ... bum luck , and really hope he recoops quickly ... still had that award-winning ear-to-ear smile though ...
.
... Great Day of enjoyable competition on "Bear's Lair" and "Moose Run" ... a super well-mannered group of Players ... Karla and Martin kept them in-line and flowing right-on-time ! ... ( after I posted Results, I see that there are "ratings" shown for both Courses ... cool ... )
.
... tomorrow they will finish Final-Round of 18 on McClure ... then be there to spot-for -or- scorecard-for -or- maybe even caddy-for those Big Guns from the A-Tier ... that final-9 of the SuperTour will be quite a spectacle ... some boy-howdy Golf Shots will be needed for that layout ...

back to the old grind!!!

lets all have some more fun!!!!

Congrats to McCabe on a solid final 9 and to the rookie masters champ. Chris Hicks!! Thanks staff for your work.

very smoothly run tournament mr. treat and staff. I heard nothing but good things from 80% or more of the field. payout was solid. thank you duff, brad, carla, andy newberry, mike, penny, wayne, and anyone I missed for making this such a good tournament.

I enjoyed playing with you Paul. Massive upside. It's coming.

... The B-Tier scores are up ... a really nice weekend ... congrats to all ...

Nice job getting the scores up!

I could give props to many a persons for a great tourney, but instead I'm gonna complain about hole #6. Come on Wise!?!?!

Just Kidding! The tourney was great. The courses played well, staff and spotters were very helpful, I got to play with a bunch of great people, got to see/talk with even more peeps, everything was awesome, except for my putting. :( I had a handful of putts from inside of 20' where I missed the unit completely!! :0 Needless to say, I'm going to be putting my little fanny off this week before we head down to the VPO.

Way to go Mccabe on a big win. That cat has got some mad game! I am definitely gonna go play that Final 9 setup some time soon. That looked like it would be fun and create some interesting shots.

And to CHICKS!! WAY TO FREAKING GO!!!! Held his composure and got paid for it!! ATTABOY!!

... your payouts are there now , also ...

... just got to finish up this electronic TD report , e-mail it to M.Treat and D.Gentry ... 'some' of the details concerning Sponsors and Supporters who ADDED-IN prizes and merchandise all weekend ...
Dynamic Discs = 10 first-round CTP's (1 per card) ...
LS Discs = boocoo Shirts, Caps, and Merch for Rings-Of-Fire ...
Daryl Johnson = ($100 cash to the "A" side) -and- "Daryl Dollars" cash into the Rings-Of-Fire (musta been $50 or $60 in one-dollar-bills) -and- some Kit-Kat candy bars (sweet) ...
The Line (Corey and Logan) = Shirts, Cap, etc. into Rings-Of-Fire ...
Chris Hutchinson and DAN BOUGHER who kept "adding-in to sweeten-the-pot" with extra dollar-bills into Rings-Of-Fire ...
and in that box-full-o-merch that they handed me to give-away in the "Rings" , I'm sure Michael can expand on what other individuals and companies filled those contents so well ... they went on - and - on - and - on ... dri-fits and long-sleeves and full-color-tees and embroidered-caps , etc. ... when Jay 'n' Tank were winning the last couple , the Basket was getting puhretty dark ... that was tooo much fun from a whole buncha Givers and Supporters ... all adds-up big-time ... I guess that's why the B-Tier Report shows the Event Value at 179% !!! ... cool ...

Thanks Mike, Wayne, staff, and all the sponsors.

It was a great weekend with lots of fun for all. :D

Well everybody except maybe for Coda and "The Dude". :confused:

Thanks Mike and ALL volunteers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Had a great time on Sunday.

And a HUGE congrats to Chris Hicks on his first big win!!!!!

As a B-tier player I didn't know what to expect from this tounament, but with T.D. Treat running things I knew it was sure to be well ran. I want to thank everyone that helped in making this a very well ran event, we all know without you guys things could have been really crazy. I can't wait to get back up to "T" town in months to come for more fellowship and fun. I have only been playing disc golf for about 5 years now and watching the "Big's" come to Oklahoma was much like going to my first PGA tour event and seeing "Jack" and "the shark" come through Oklahoma when I was a boy. I will remember this event for the rest of my life even though I didn't win I got to see some of the best in my disc golf world. I want say Thank You again for making this happen and until next time, "keep it positive and have fun".

This was my third OO, and it was by far my favorite to date. First time playing the tournament with the Advanced boys, and what a battle!
Big "O" thanks to Treat, Duff, Penney, HOI, Martin Norris, Karla Barton, Jeff Green and the other Spotters and volunteers who made this weekend such a blast!

See you next time . . .
Geiger!

Congrats to Adam for another top ten finish in a our second biggest tour eventvof the year in OK. NT and A tier. Watch that rating head to the 990's!!

Adam has done great as a new player on the scene! Dorries makes a better caddie.;)

Adam's shots on hole 18 of the final 9 were outstanding!

Congrats to Hicks for the master's BIG WIN.. over some outstanding competition.

Yes! Congrats are in order to Adam for some very consistent play over the weekend! He is starting to do what it takes to hang with the big boys and I am very proud of him for stepping up into that role.



In response to your I make a better caddy comment. Well, I will admit I didn't play that great this weekend, it felt like I was scrapping to shoot the scores I was shooting, nothing seemed to come easy. Starting full time work in May has brought my practice time down a lot and it seems like all I do is play cash games half stiff from sitting all day long and weekend tournaments where you are mostly standing watching others throw. My putting style changes every two months, which is a flaw... but somehow I still seem to be shooting better rounds and staying fairly consistent with my scores.... SO thanks Wise for the comments, it only fuels my desire to get better and be a force to be reckoned with in the T-town area. BTW Wise-*** (two seperate words, not one), what was your rating 3 years after you started throwing discs?? I don't see you hanging it up to pursue your caddy carreer ;)

Its not like I wasn't ride-n the tractor this weekend.:cool:

My rating hasn't moved 10 points in over 2 years. Has a lot to do with being master/grand masters age. :(

We'll se how you're doing in another 25 years, if you're even still playing. By that time, you'll be half bald, 60 pounds heavier, have a bad elbow, bad knee and on your second marriage.......if you're lucky!:eek: And if you are still around, then you can put up with the young players and try to tell them how it used to be.

At least I didn't curse you this weekend.:eek:

[QUOTE=pdorries;1399824]Well, I will admit I didn't play that great this weekend, it felt like I was scrapping to shoot the scores I was shooting, nothing seemed to come easy. Starting full time work in May has brought my practice time down a lot and it seems like all I do is play cash games half stiff from sitting all day long and weekend tournaments where you are mostly standing watching others throw. My putting style changes every two months, which is a flaw... but somehow I still seem to be shooting better rounds and staying fairly consistent with my scores.... SO thanks Wise for the comments, it only fuels my desire to get better and be a force to be reckoned with in the T-town area.QUOTE]

Dude.....put it on a DVD.

You would have had a better chance of cashing if you had parked cars at Craptennial all weekend though I will give you credit for the 1 stroke beat down over Coda Bear. :D

Were you on that card with him and Devon?

http://www.genuinekentucky.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/laughing_so_hard_hes_crying1.gif

Now that I am better rested, let me post a few comments.

First of all, thanks to Dave Pennekamp, Brad HOI, Jeff Green, Dough Duff, Joyle Deering and the outstanding staff that ran the B Tier, Wayne Forest, Martin Norris and Carla Barton.

Running these events takes a lot of work and would be impossible without the volunteers.

All of these people devoted a lot of time and energy to give you the players the best experience possible.

I thought the tournament went very well. The dry weather helped. It started sprinkling on my way home, close call..

After these events I always think of things I could have done better. Decisions I made that I should have possibly changed, things I over looked and some stuff I just plain missed.

With that said, the tournament ran on time, pay out was really good and almost everyone only had positive comments and thanks.

Disc Golfers, especially at this level, are very competive and opinionated. I understand that and actually appreciate it. We are all striving to make our sport the best it can be. That isn't going to happen overnight but as long as we are all striving for the same goal, I am sure we will make it.

So at this time I am going to think about both the positive comments and the negative ones so we can keep making this tournament better in the coming years.

I considered it an honor to TD this event, I really do. As I said, 99% of the people were just great. Major positive comments. The 1% negative all seem to have their own agenda, which I do not think is always to make the sport better, only better for themselves.

I hope everyone got a chance to watch the final 9. I don't know if that had ever been tried before. As late as Sunday morning at 5:00 am I was questioning my decision.

In hindsight, I think it was one of the best ideas I had in a long time.. Watching the top players shoot a low score of 31 on that 9 hole layout is nothing less than amazing.

And, for Tulsa to have the World Champ, USDGC champ and several other top touring players here for all of us to watch was really great. It isn't every weekend we get to see that level of play.

As long as we keep trying to do the right thing, work hard and stay united as a club, we should see this level of play here on a more frequent basis.

Finally, congratulations to all the winners. Eric McCabe surprised me with his come back, it was quite amazing to watch.

Thanks for all the positive comments, I really appreciate them..

The reason McCabe won is that he doesn't carry enough weight to fall down on that crappy #6 tee pad at Centennial. :D:D


Thank you Mike, had a blast and I was sure one tired mofo last night. Old bones hurt after a weekend like that.;)

Thanks to Treat, his staff of volunteers, TDSA, and everyone that has helped work on these courses and made this tourney possible. It was an entertaining weekend of disc golf. Thanks also to my caddie Jose' Mendoza and for all the congrats I have gotten from people on my win (much appreciated). Congrats too to Eric, nice come back.
Yes it was huge win for me and I am honoured to have won the Double O in the Pro Masters division. It meant a lot to me to play with and win against the McClellan brothers. Dream come true.
All I need now is a little song from Rotan to commemorate the win with... maybe a little Dream On by Aerosmith!

Good win Hicks. That's what happens when you don't take Wise's advice. :)

I was worried about you there for a minute.

He knows I gave good advice and Jose` told him the same thing on 11, keep it away from the creek!

Enjoyed playing on your card Hicks............Great win!

I saw you over there on 11 talking to him and I agree with you. If Jose hadn't been there to cancel out your negative waves, Hicks might have been in trouble. :D

The City just called, they are starting on the tee pad costruction tomorrow.:(:D

About a week late but I'll still take it!!!

Hear that Dorries??? No excuses next time.;)

The City just called, they are starting on the tee pad construction tomorrow.:(:D

About a week late but I'll still take it!!!

Hear that Dorries??? No excuses next time.;)
I heard that several players shot great scores out there even with natural pads. :D
come to think of it some football teams are switching back to grass fields instead of fake turf. maybe we should look into the safety of pads as a source for injuries?:confused:

I don't think McCabe was biatchng about them.:cool:

But in all honesty, the course would have been much better with them. Hands down! The wood shavings were only a small fix. I did just fine on them and didn't have a problem. Besides had it not been that it just would have been something else. Like my card mates on the last round telling me it was a lefty course....right up until I took a double circle 7 on a lefty hole.:p

Avery griping about the course was FUNNY. He said it wasn't ready....... okay, so I guess we should assume USDGC wasn't ready either by his first round score there also? :eek:

And Paul griping about anything is Funny!:D

It is what it is and we all know it will just get better. I know I had fun the 2nd and thrid rounds, the first round was just a mind blower, just couldn't shake it.

And Paul griping about anything is Funny!:D


pre-post disclaimer... this post is for Wise ... (would be furdog too, if he was even worth addressing)

Official Centennial Rules Riddle... you can't throw off of it in the round, you can't even park on it when pulling in... what is it????

Also..
1. I already told you I played bad at centennial, my bad score was my fault, I couldn't play very good all weekend. I could only blame the course for bad footing on hole 6 and hole 18 basket (spit twice in under a week during competitions!)
2. Even though the tournament was a success, your course was the worst one played all weekend, which is nothing to brag about. There are a lot of good shots and holes out there, but even the super pros were wondering why that course was being used.
3. Due to some griping, we actually figured out a problem (pads) and a solution to temporarily fix it (wood chips).. so you're welcome
4. McCabe's -10 was sweet... totally amazing shooting, he could deal with the conditions out there better than some. If ball golf players had to tee off standing in the mud, who knows, Tiger might not win every time... but they don't they have consistent teeing areas all the time. However, this is disc golf we shouldn't strive to be like an established professional sport.

Luckily for me, I think I will be able to make it to the VPO this coming weekend and get to play on a real course.

For the record, I'm not upset or mad about anything this weekend, I think it went great... so I don't understand all your comments towards me anyways... it was fun, I averaged over my rating and haven't hardly been able to practice lately, so I'm a happy camper.

The City just called, they are starting on the tee pad costruction tomorrow.:(:D

About a week late but I'll still take it!!!

Hear that Dorries??? No excuses next time.;)

I rest on my statement made at about 9:45am on Sunday on the teepad of hole 6 :D

He knows I gave good advice and Jose` told him the same thing on 11, keep it away from the creek!

Enjoyed playing on your card Hicks............Great win!

I was including you Wise in my comment of it being an entertaining weekend of golf, never a dull moment:)
I might even miss you a little when you turn pro grandmaster:(

Disc Golfer's are awesome!! You all realize what it took to make an event like this happen and were appreciative that we were there giving you a reason to play this sport that we thoroughly enjoy. I really enjoyed being part of Mr.Treat's team for this event, He Did a spendid job of orchestrating everything. The final nine at Mcclure to wrap it up, awesome idea...BIG PAT ON THE BACK to Michael Treat, and thank you for letting me be a part of it.

Congratulations to all the division winners...McCabe, PLAYING some golf and insuring the fact that there isn't (nor has there ever been) a repeat open winner at the OO. Mr.Hicks with the pro master win, living a dream and has a wife to share it with...We teased you about your game going down hill after becoming a husband, guess you showed us. Just remember who's back has the target on it :D. Another Chris...Mr. Eads with the advanced win...calm, cool, and played through the Raz entourage and he's from Arkansas:eek: watch out for this guy. The advanced masters winner Mr. Sean Young, good win, you got your trophy!!! your a world champion...MOVE UP!!! Congrads to Liz for her open win, she came to play...and made sure that Eric didn't so her up. I wonder what they talked about on the way home....

I had an awesome time at the Oklahoma Open. Thank you Mr. Treat for allowing me to come out there and share in the fun.


As you can see here, everyone was getting into the action.
http://unclebobbyjr.smugmug.com/CDSB/Disc-Golf/Oklahoma-Open-2009/OklahomaOpen-96/694213170_qms99-S-1.jpg (http://unclebobbyjr.smugmug.com/CDSB/Disc-Golf/Oklahoma-Open-2009/10106700_zB9nC/1/#694213170_qms99-A-LB)

If you are on Facebook you can click here to see the photos and tag your friends. (http://www.facebook.com/cooldaddyslickbreeze#/album.php?aid=159945&id=112475329621)

If you want to just see the hi resolution version you can click here. (http://unclebobbyjr.smugmug.com/CDSB/Disc-Golf/Oklahoma-Open-2009/10106700_zB9nC/1/694213170_qms99)

I rest on my statement made at about 9:45am on Sunday on the teepad of hole 6 :D

First, this has nothing to do with Centennial or tee pads or any other course in town. This has to do with why Pros are not worth the time or money it takes.

I'll rest on my statement that Tulsa needs to scrap Major PRO events and target Am Only events. No NT's, No Pro Super tours, No Pro Worlds. They are nothing but a drain on club funds and resources, with nothing in return to the club. They require added cash, just for the pros and that has to come from and outside source or as most do it, they STEAL from the Ams to pay the pros.:( Until the PDGA can partner with a true tour sponsor with a big bank account, there is no incentive to run their events. If thats not ture then why is USDGC the only event that continues at the same location? Because most clubs can't afford to host another one, they're broke after the last one.
As a Pro, I'm sure your were not happy with the NT schedule this year. A lot of players in Texas were complaining about it anf the fact they don't have one. Right up until the people in the know and the people with past expreience told them they tried, it isn't worth it.

No matter where the Super Pros play or what event, the SUPER pros will complain. FACT!

Ams are where the growth is................
Am events are what allows the club to grow, install and up keep courses.
The only reason we have Red Hawk, Black Hawk, tee pads and new baskets at Dovillio is because of Am players.

The reason Centennial is getting concrete? Thats right, an Am Player!

Chandler getting the new Moose Run course? Thats right, another Am player.

Sorry but the more I'm around big pro events and big pro players, the more I want to hang with the Ams.

Unfortunately this would effect the Pro Master and Pro Grands and they are as much fun as the Ams, as they are just happy to be playing at this age. Maybe an Am event with a side event for Pro Master and Pro grand?

Tulsa needs to grow an Am event that would rival or exceed Bowling Green in it's hayday! Thats right, an Am event with 400-600 players. We have the location, we have the courses and we have the ability. And if the Pros truley want to give back, then we will have pleanty of volunteers.:cool:


So go ahead and tell me what the Pros give to this sport Paul, other than greif. But, until you actually TD or help run a big Pro event, your answers are based on no real experience.



There, that should...................
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_V8razhn3N4Q/ShccIqM2nKI/AAAAAAAAAdI/Ki0t3UtcCEI/s400/pot+stirrer.jpg

My name is Furdog and I approve the above statement. :D

Every year it's the same old thing. $2000 of club money down the drain. Not including all the money brought in by Wayne and Big Nic's night events. Money that was raised mostly on Am players and the sweat of some dedicated local TD's.

How about next year we give 2 or 3 thousand dollars of value back to the ams???? :)

You young pros want a super event then try stepping up and running one of your own for a change. :eek:

Dorries you're a fine one to speak. Here you are planning on going to the VPO this weekend when there is a United Way team event right here in town. Then the club picnic on Sunday. Sorry we couldn't shovel another $2000 into that to entice you to show up and support those events. :(

you're points are not absurd. more big am tournaments would help to promote the sport. TDs would actually make way more money, which would be cool and very deserved.

Where does that leave the local pros though? If every state took your attitude, we would have no where to play. Then there is no drive for the Am players to be good at the sport and advance their skill level.

I'm sure you're idea sounds nice in an ideal system where pros can be funded by outside companies, but until then... there has to continue being pro events, even if we only have 1 A tier a year, we are at least contributing. I agree that the past two years have been a drain on club resources. We hosted the GTO NT, OO, GCO NT, and OO again... thats 4 big tourneys in two years. I think we would be fine just hosting the OO every year and occaisionally bump it up a month or so put it in as a bid for the end of the NT schedule.. but one big tourney every year would be enough in my opinion. Then keep the B tiers rolling smooth so guys like coda and devan can make enough change to travel to the bigger tourneys.

I don't disagree with you about the AMs... but you can't just neglect the pros. What do Ams eventually become? It is nice if you are an old fart like furdog on the downslope of your game, but what about the new comers like gary harrison and seth cook... these guys are on the upswing of their game and will eventually make it to pro status... so what do they do then?

Your view is nice and very one sided, if you consider the sport in its entirety.

After seeing many years of you two going back and forth or(up and down)I think that's the best thing you have posted in years !
If it's not making it good for the AM's the PDGA and disc golf will have a long slow road.
I like the AM only deal,I mite have to move down to AM's again anyway.
Heath tells me I'm an AM all the time?

I mite be wrong but in 07 and 08 I don't think the club lost any money? ON the OO
AND doesn't anyone remember Dovillio before 06 PURE DIRT!
Go play in Texass more they got dirt!

I think that showcasing the touring pros at least once a year is great for the club, for disc golf in general, and great for the ams. It is really inspiring to see what is possible in disc golf. If club $$'s are an issue, I'd be willing to work toward raising the $2000 - $3000 needed to bring the pros to town. I think that donations are out there, both corporate and individual, and I be willing to work toward "making it happen" to insure that the pros keep coming to Tulsa.

All that being said, I think that an "am only" tournament like Bowling Green would be great too. I went to Bowling Green this year, and I was impressed by how much money was raised by their club through local businesses, as well as through the major disc golf companies. I know that it didn't happen overnight, but when you have 500 or more people coming into town for several days, the business community realizes that this means an influx of $$ and they are willing to pony up and support such an event. That support resulted a players pack worth more that your entry fee, and for nice perks like a new disc for the winner of each card each round. Payouts were near nothing, but that just meant that everyone was a winner, the wealth was spread around pretty evenly. It would be good to have an event that is focused on fun like Bowling Green here in Tulsa.

you're points are not absurd. more big am tournaments would help to promote the sport. TDs would actually make way more money, which would be cool and very deserved.

Where does that leave the local pros though? If every state took your attitude, we would have no where to play. Then there is no drive for the Am players to be good at the sport and advance their skill level. If every state took that attitude, then maybe just maybe the PDGA would get off their collective arses and get a tour sponsor. Not having a pro division wouldn't deter the ams to get better.

I'm sure you're idea sounds nice in an ideal system where pros can be funded by outside companies, but until then... there has to continue being pro events, even if we only have 1 A tier a year, we are at least contributing. contyributing to what? The pro payout? We sure aren't giving anything back to the Ams the way it is now. We charge them for everything, including players packs, then we take all of the profits from them and GIVE it to the pros. I agree that the past two years have been a drain on club resources. We hosted the GTO NT, OO, GCO NT, and OO again... thats 4 big tourneys in two years. I think we would be fine just hosting the OO every year and occaisionally bump it up a month or so put it in as a bid for the end of the NT schedule.. Sorry but I and others will fight you tooth and nail against EVER hosting another NT event, unless there is a true tour sponsor.but one big tourney every year would be enough in my opinion. Then keep the B tiers rolling smooth so guys like coda and devan can make enough change to travel to the bigger tourneys. Why is it up to the local ams to support Coda and Devan? Sorry but even the Double O puts a drain on club funds, where do you think the added cash for the pros comes from? Its not just the Ams but the majority is, through minis and other events. All you local pros, including myself, contribute through the minis is $1 on Saturday and Sunday only events and maybe a few mulligan events.

I don't disagree with you about the AMs... but you can't just neglect the pros. What do Ams eventually become? I don't know, maybe Super Pro arseholes? Most are happy playing Am their whole life. Sorry but the pro side is the smallest segment and the largest user of resourses. It is nice if you are an old fart like furdog on the downslope of your game, but what about the new comers like gary harrison and seth cook... these guys are on the upswing of their game and will eventually make it to pro status... so what do they do then? I'm not sure but I am sure that as long as the local clubs continue to fund and support the major PDGA events, then there is NO incentive for the PDGA to change anything or go after sponsorship.


Your view is nice and very one sided, if you consider the sport in its entirety. My views may seem one sided, however they are business based and aimed at the market segment that the real money comes from. Your studying for your CPA, so tell me how is the current system of Ams supporting pros any different than a welfare system? Would you advise your clients that it is a good business model, under the current system?


But I am only one opinion, try asking the ams how they feel about it.

Where does that leave the local pros though? If every state took your attitude, we would have no where to play.

I'm sure you're idea sounds nice in an ideal system where pros can be funded by outside companies, but until then... there has to continue being pro events, even if we only have 1 A tier a year, we are at least contributing. but one big tourney every year would be enough in my opinion.

I don't disagree with you about the AMs... but you can't just neglect the pros. What do Ams eventually become? It is nice if you are an old fart like furdog on the downslope of your game, but what about the new comers like gary harrison and seth cook... these guys are on the upswing of their game and will eventually make it to pro status... so what do they do then?

Well you guys could always learn to play with yourselves. Just pony up more money.

Why should Treat, Rotan, and Forest always have to run these things?

Why don't you, Coda, & Devon get together and run one for a change? :confused:

McCoy did.

That would inspire a lot of people like Gary and Seth.

First, this has nothing to do with Centennial or tee pads or any other course in town. This has to do with why Pros are not worth the time or money it takes.

I'll rest on my statement that Tulsa needs to scrap Major PRO events and target Am Only events. No NT's, No Pro Super tours, No Pro Worlds. They are nothing but a drain on club funds and resources, with nothing in return to the club. They require added cash, just for the pros and that has to come from and outside source or as most do it, they STEAL from the Ams to pay the pros.:( Until the PDGA can partner with a true tour sponsor with a big bank account, there is no incentive to run their events. If thats not ture then why is USDGC the only event that continues at the same location? Because most clubs can't afford to host another one, they're broke after the last one.
As a Pro, I'm sure your were not happy with the NT schedule this year. A lot of players in Texas were complaining about it anf the fact they don't have one. Right up until the people in the know and the people with past expreience told them they tried, it isn't worth it.

No matter where the Super Pros play or what event, the SUPER pros will complain. FACT!

Ams are where the growth is................
Am events are what allows the club to grow, install and up keep courses.
The only reason we have Red Hawk, Black Hawk, tee pads and new baskets at Dovillio is because of Am players.

The reason Centennial is getting concrete? Thats right, an Am Player!

Chandler getting the new Moose Run course? Thats right, another Am player.

Sorry but the more I'm around big pro events and big pro players, the more I want to hang with the Ams.

Unfortunately this would effect the Pro Master and Pro Grands and they are as much fun as the Ams, as they are just happy to be playing at this age. Maybe an Am event with a side event for Pro Master and Pro grand?

Tulsa needs to grow an Am event that would rival or exceed Bowling Green in it's hayday! Thats right, an Am event with 400-600 players. We have the location, we have the courses and we have the ability. And if the Pros truley want to give back, then we will have pleanty of volunteers.:cool:


So go ahead and tell me what the Pros give to this sport Paul, other than greif. But, until you actually TD or help run a big Pro event, your answers are based on no real experience.



There, that should...................
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_V8razhn3N4Q/ShccIqM2nKI/AAAAAAAAAdI/Ki0t3UtcCEI/s400/pot+stirrer.jpg


Dave, I agree with everything you said. Why didn't someone tell me this a year ago? I'm still reeling.

I would have said something but nobody listens to me anyway. :(

The �OKLAHOMA OPEN�

2009 PDGA TOUR Disc-Golf Tournament

Final Results

LONG COURSES
Open Pro Division : Eric McCabe (Round Rock,Tx) 173
Pro Masters : Cris Hicks (Tulsa,Ok) 186
Pro Women : Liz Lopez (Round Rock,Tx) 217
Pro GrandMasters : Scott Wilkinson (Tulsa,Ok) 202
Advanced : Chris Eads (Ft.Smith,Ar) 197
Adv. Masters : Sean Young (Tulsa,Ok) 208
Adv. Women : Teresa Duff (Catoosa,Ok) 224
Adv. GrandMasters : Jim Geurin (Tulsa,Ok) 221
SHORT COURSES
Amateur : Wayne Minshall (Tulsa,Ok) 152
Amateur Women : Sarah Slane (Tulsa,Ok) 185
Novice : Zach Brockhaus (OKC,Ok) 161
Junior Boys (19) : Junior Roberts (OKC,Ok) 181
Junior Boys (16) : Justin Lombardo (Broken Arrow,Ok) 199
Junior Girls (13) : Phoenix Rogers (Siloam Spgs,Ar) 186



Next Event :
Saturday , Oct.31 , 9:00am , at Chandler Park
Tulsa County Parks United Way Charity Tournament

Had breakfast with Avery and Justin yesterday and I was explaining the economics of pro events to them. I think it opened their eyes pretty wide. My opinion is that until we can get corporate sponsors for pro events, they are not worth an individual or clubs effort or resources. On the brighter side, I believe there is hope for this and we are continuously being asked to be guest speakers at civic events to discuss disc golf. I would still like to get someone like Phillips/Conoco or some other big, health minded company to underwrite a pro tournament. That is the only way I see it can be a financial success. I told Avery and Justin yesterday, I would have been better off just handing out $100 bills to everyone that came to our event. It wouldn't have stung me nearly as badly as it did. I also commented that the last thing a host of a major event wants to hear at the end of the day is a bunch of ungrateful players saying, "You didn't do enough or, the money wasn't good enough". I think a players group where these issues are actually addressed would be good. I would like to think that the pros do not hold themselves above the task of helping to overcome these issues. After all, it is to their sole advantage.

But I am only one opinion, try asking the ams how they feel about it.

I think your response to my post was very well thought out and I do agree that the PDGA should be doing A LOT more to get sponsors for big tourneys. The burden should not lie on the local club to poney up the money. However, I feel like Dr. Jim that it is nice to have the big studs come through once a year to give people the chance to see the level of consistency and arsenol of shots it takes to be a top level pro.

I do not have a business plan for the current system, as I have not put the time and thought into it, BUT it is not beyond me. I will try to brainstorm with some of the other guys I graduated with like Josh and adam.

The ideal system would probably be outside sponsors for the pros and leave the ams to the local tds and coordinators. Lots of money could be made that way and stay within the local system. You are right on with those ideas.

You have addressed one side of the sport (ams) very well, I think the same about of thought and good planning should go into the pro side. Maybe I can get with some people to discuss it, its going to take a lot more than me and some guys thinking, but its a start. I'll arrange a get together, get Dr. Jim out there too, hes always got great ideas.

Thank you very much Mike Treat, Wayne Forest and everyone who put in tons of effort to make the OO happen! Special thanks to Brad HOI for painting circles around all the baskets so I can jump putt whenever possible. :)

In regards to Centennial, most of the people I played with actually think it is the best course of the three we played. I only saw a few issues. The teepad on hole 6 was rough; a lot of people slipped on it. Other than that, I thought the teepads worked well. Hole 4 had a lot of drives in hole 3's fairway. On hole 7, drives often went toward 6's tee. Which sidewalks were o.b. could use a little tweaking. Besides these few minor issues, Centennial was great. I look forward to it be used many times in the future. Thanks Wise for making it happen!

I must say that I am continually impressed with people who run big pro tournaments after seeing how much flak they take. It seems to me that am's are much more grateful and appreciative of the experience they get. Based on my limited experience and knowledge, I would be in favor of TDSA putting a much larger portion of its focus on the amateur side of the sport. I sure wouldn't want to put in the time, effort and money into a tounament like the GCO just to hear complaints about it. As a pro (who would love to be able to throw frisbees for a living), I think that increasing the amateur side of the sport would be extremely beneficial for the pro side. More am's create more consumers and spectators. Potential sponsors want to know how they can make money. They will NOT make money from pro's. They will make money from people who watch pro's. Who watches pro's? Amateurs! As pro's, we shouldn't focus on growing the pro side of the sport. We need the SPECTATOR side of the sport to grow. Until we have spectators, we will never have the payout we want.

Just to clarify, I never once heard Nikko or Ulibarri complain about anything other than their play. And McCabe is always a class act in my experience. Some pro's are quite grateful of the opportunity to make a little cash doing something they love.

That's enough ranting for me... Thanks again to everyone who put so much effort into the Oklahoma Open! I had a blast!

Congrats to TREAT & Co. on a nice streamlined Oklahoma Open. It was fun to show up and just worry about playing, seeing old friends and having fun. Congrats to Hicks for not bisquit canning the last round!

As for Am's vs Pro's it can be balanced. It just has to be give and take and involve more than the same 3 people and same 2 sponsors over and over and over...

To clear up some misrepresentations on here, the club HAS NOT lost money on the GTO, Waynes family / household absorbed that loss. The club did not lose money on The GCO, That loss was absorbed by the Treat, Taylor, Barton & Rotan household , and other than time and basic course expenses that should have been handled WAY before the event the loss was minimal (could actually be constrewed as sponship or "putting your money where your mouth is). The Oklahoma Open has broke even the last 3 years that I know of, even with our $2000.00 club kick in. The Forest / Nicholson Flights events usually comes thru with cash (although low turnouts have dropped that money down to 60% of what it used to be) Daryl Johnson comes thru with some cash. The AM's HAVE NEVER been robbed to pay the Pro's. In 2006 the players pack retailed at $32.00 for B Tier and $47 for A Tier Am's, In 2007 the players pack retailed at $27 & $42 respectfully. This year the players pack was valued at $28.00 on the A Tier side (from what I saw). My point is the value to an AM will always be there and in Oklahoma we tend to make it very value rich for our AM's.

The biggest problem is getting the PRO's to actually be promotable. They already get over 100% return of their money to show up and do nothing to get it but PLAY. No local sponsor PR work, No club member clinics, no nice PRO specific products, no extra curricular anything or giving of any kind any where at anytime. So WHY would the clubs, sponsors, locals etc want to do anything to make it better for them? Just to watch a few of the good ones play here for a day or two? All the while knowing at the end of it all it's not going to be good enough, phat enough or rich enough? It is a problem the touring pro's, the PDGA or our sports 1 or 2 big sponsors have not been able to figure out.

I think most of the touring pro's can use the "day job analogy" if you don't like your job you either improve it or find a better one. Also a dose of reality could blow thru is "we are not as cool as we think we are" another way to look at it is our best player to ever play the game is currently making less than a high school principal, at the HEIGHT of his career he was making less than a GM at Taco Bueno... That situation can't be fixed in a weekend in Lil Ol' Oklahoma"

It is nice to see the Pro's here, especially when they are acting the part. With the NT schedule next year our only chance to see them here is the Oklahoma Open (as it was since the first World's Tulsa hosted). Perhaps fresh blood could go out and get $$$ and courses in and ready, it might be the breath of fresh air TTown needs.

Waynes family / household absorbed that loss.

That loss was absorbed by the Treat, Taylor, Barton & Rotan household ,

the loss was minimal (could actually be constrewed as sponship or "putting your money where your mouth is).

The Oklahoma Open has broke even the last 3 years that I know of, even with our $2000.00 club kick in.

The three clips form above pretty much say it all. Pretty sad when local members have to absorb losses so that an event can break even. EVEN?
Are you kidding me? :eek:


The biggest problem is getting the PRO's to actually be promotable. They already get over 100% return of their money to show up and do nothing to get it but PLAY. No local sponsor PR work, No club member clinics, no nice PRO specific products, no extra curricular anything or giving of any kind any where at anytime. So WHY would the clubs, sponsors, locals etc want to do anything to make it better for them? Just to watch a few of the good ones play here for a day or two? All the while knowing at the end of it all it's not going to be good enough, phat enough or rich enough? It is a problem the touring pro's, the PDGA or our sports 1 or 2 big sponsors have not been able to figure out. BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Sounds like a voice of experience. Plain and simple, Ams support the club.
Glad to see they weren't robbed from but in order to avoid that, individuals had to absorb the costs because Pros must get their 100% + added cash.

So why is it we should support big Pro events again?

http://www.thebuttercompartment.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/sleepy.gif

I was informed that since I'm a member of the TDSA I could sit in on admin meetings. When is the next one? I couldn't find any dates for these meetings on the TDSA website. I know they are Monday nights, but what time and day? Thanks.

Yep. The OO gets $3000+ and what does Chandlerstock get?....Zip, zilch, zero, notta, fly lint, buffalo farts. :(

[QUOTE=pdorries;1400011]I was informed that since I'm a member of the TDSA I could sit in on admin meetings. When is the next one? QUOTE]

The last one was at the Moose Lodge. The next one is this Sunday at the picnic. If you can't be there then make sure you cast your vote before you leave.

While the PGA and PDGA both have golf in their name every one needs to remember that the PDGA is about where the PGA was in the late 1940's.
Back then there was no Arnie's Army, no Golden Bear, and certainly no Tiger Woods. You had Ben Hogan playing to a gallery of dozens and the gallery was a non paying spectator.
Some day in the future we may have paying galleries but due to the nature of our sport and course design where will the stand to watch?
Arguably our best courses are ones with challenging terrain and that in and of it's self limits spectators. Yes I am aware that the USDGC is able, with the use of hay bales and yellow rope to create challenges in an environment that would be less than challenging without them.
Is that what we want for all of our courses? I am sure that a lot of places could be set up for "stadium courses" that are viewer friendly but at the expense of natural obstacles and beauty.
We are a sport that considers 4 inch high grass to be fairway and only consider wilderness areas as rough totally unlike the manicured pastures of our ball golfing cousins.
Are we a Sport?
I say yes we are and a little rock climbing at Duncan lake should prove that to any one we play in places that no one else wants or has a use for! We carve our courses from virgin wilderness and we play with gusto!
When the Professional players can bring some thing to the table besides their unsmiling faces and hands stuck out for a check then the locals may be more willing to pony up the bucks to watch them make massive throws and monster putts. But at present that does not seem to apply to the majority. Sure most are polite in public but complaints are submitted in back channels away from the public eye. Jay was a true Gentleman and stayed even injured for the whole weekend to give for the sport but most would have bailed the moment they withdrew!

Little mentioned fact:
Look at the ratio of non pro ball golfers to Pro golfers! DUH!
When we can build an AM base to match theirs then things will begin to equalize but right now we are about 50 to 60 years behind the status of our ball golfing cousins!

Want to change all that?
THEN PROMOTE AM PLAY! Pro players will develop from the expanding base and the expanding base will support the pro players but right now there are too many big apples in the barrel being supported by too many little apples at the bottom of the barrel.