Economics is really the most important issue of the Presidential race.

But it will be ignored for the most part.

Obama and McCain will just keep saying they want to help you INSTEAD of talking about was really caused the problems and changing policy.

Obama will blame not enough government.

McCain will say there is no problem [still the current Bush Policy]

More government is NOT the problem, too much government is.

The answer is NOT to bail out bank, investment brokers, or even Mortgage holders. Bailing them out only makes the problem worse in the long run. People make mistakes and MUST pay for them. Call it a ''Stupid Tax'' [does anyone know who calls it this]

Anyways, Friday was a bad day for us on wall street, just when our government officials were saying the worst was over, this is what we got.

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A good article emailed by Glenn Beck today.

Because it deals with Taxation, I posted it on this thread.


Individual Rights, Taxation and the Proper Role of Government
By C. Bradley Thompson

How shall government in a free society raise revenue to pay for its legitimate functions and services? This question has long vexed Americans, and their answer to it has changed dramatically over time.

How one thinks about taxes depends more fundamentally on how one thinks about the nature and purpose of government which in turn depends on how one thinks about the rights of individuals. Taxation is a social barometer measuring the degree to which a society is prosperous or poor, free or enslaved, good or evil.

In the 18th and 19th centuries, Americans had a very different conception of government than we do today. At the time of the American Revolution, the American people believed that the sole purpose of government was the protection of individual rights - the rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. Various attempts by the British Parliament during the 1760s and '70s to tax the colonists without their consent provoked the Americans to revolt, to declare their independence from Great Britain, and to develop a radically new conception of government founded on the moral principle of man's rights.

American Revolutionaries understood "rights" to mean freedom from the arbitrary initiation of physical force, which means the right and the freedom to act in order to acquire, possess, use and trade property. The Founders thought it right that a man be free to choose and pursue the actions necessary to support his life; they thought it right that he keep the property that he has created to support his life, and they thought it right that he benefit from and enjoy the fruits of his labor.

Building on that moral foundation, America's Founding Fathers created a revolutionary political system that institutionalized the protection of each and every individual's rights as the only proper moral purpose of government. The Framers of the Constitution took great pains to create a government of limited powers, including if not most especially, limits on the government's power to tax. Not one Founding Father thought the federal government (or any government for that matter) should have the power to tax at will.

The Founders understood that the taxing power is one of government's most potentially abusive powers, and so they took steps to limit and control its reach. Most importantly, they set up constitutional controls over both taxing and spending. The primary control on excessive taxation came in the form of limitations on Congress's spending power. The proper functions of government created by the Constitution of 1787 were mostly limited to national defense, internal police, and a system of courts. Limited spending meant limited taxes.

In his First Inaugural Address, Thomas Jefferson summed up the Founders view of government and the basic political-economic principles of the American creed in these terms:

A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.

Under the Founders' constitution, taxes were limited to duties on foreign imports and the occasional sales tax on things such as alcohol, carriages, sugar and tobacco. This view of the relationship between rights, limited government and taxes lasted for well over a hundred years.

The Founders' system of natural liberty allowed each man to choose his path in life, to run his life as he saw best fit, to reap what he sowed confident that the fruits of his labor would not be taken from him and given to someone else, and to rise as high as his ability would take him. Shockingly (at least to us in the 21st century), such men lived without government officers, inspectors, regulators and social workers. They lived without welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, social security, regulatory agencies such as the FDA, SEC, FCC and government schools, which means they lived virtually free of taxes.

The free society created by our Founding Fathers was dramatically altered in 1913 with the passage of the Sixteenth Amendment and the introduction of the progressive income tax.

At the heart of the progressive income tax is the Marxian moral principle, which says: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." In other words, the progressive income tax tells working Americans that they have a moral duty to work for those who don't.

In 2008, Americans stand at a great distance from those daring Revolutionaries who rebelled against Great Britain's tyranny of taxation. Our Federal Tax Code runs to 66,000 pages and Tax Freedom Day (the day in the year when one stops working for the government and gets to keep what is earned) has moved from January 22 in 1900 to April 23 in 2008. This means that most Americans spend almost four months a year working full-time for the government. Surely the Founding Fathers would have thought a progressive income tax the harbinger if not the very definition of tyranny and enslavement.

In this election year, we might ask our politicians to tell us why we should think them wiser and more just than Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.

C. Bradley Thompson is the Executive Director of the Clemson Institute for the Study of Capitalism, Professor of Political Science at Clemson University, and the author of the award-winning John Adams and the Spirit of Liberty.

The Federal government has NO authority to bail out anyone. Please show me in the Constitution where it says the Federal Government can do it...............


Urgent: Vote on Dodd/Countrywide Bailout Scheduled for Tomorrow!

Dear FreedomWorks Member,

As you know, the Senate is currently considering a $300 billion mortgage bailout for the riskiest borrowers and their banks. During this time it was revealed that Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT), the primary architect of the compromise bill that ultimately ended up on the Senate floor, had received a special �VIP� loan from Countrywide Financial, which stands to be one of the primary beneficiaries of the bill. Thanks to your hard work over the past several weeks, the bad policy contained in the Dodd/Countrywide Bailout has been exposed and generated countless calls and emails from citizens all over the United States. This has helped to stall the legislation a great deal.

Unfortunately, the irresponsible economics and the VIP scandal are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the bad policy in the mortgage bailout. Hidden within the bill is a provision added by Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) that would greatly expand the power of the Internal Revenue Service to monitor what you buy online. Sen. Grassley�s provision would require the nation�s electronic payment systems to track, aggregate, and report information on nearly every electronic transaction to the federal government. This means that the government will be able to track everything you buy on sites like Amazon and eBay.

This sweeping provision carries with it serious concerns about the state of privacy in the United States. Since the provision was revealed late last week, groups on both the Right and the Left have joined together in expressing vocal opposition to this blatant violation of the privacy rights of every American citizen.

We�ve slowed it down, but things will come to a head tomorrow afternoon as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) tries to invoke cloture and pass this legislation. Please email your Senators to urge them to vote NO on the Dodd/Countrywide Mortgage Bailout Bill. You can also call them directly by dialing 1-866-928-3035.

Sincerely,

Dick Armey
Chairman
FreedomWorks.org




To take action on this, click HERE (http://www.capwiz.com/freedomworks/issues/alert/?alertid=11529276)

This was yesterday
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Peter is right, if you convert into any other currently or compare the Dow Jones to Gold or Oil, it is lower than it was in 2002.

Peter is also right on the governments numbers with Inflation, they have changed the numbers to not include energy items like Gas, Oil and Electricity. You know, things we have to buy every day.

The FED also stop releasing the M1 [or was it M3] that was a report of how much money is actually in circulation.

Why, because the release of that number would drive down the value of the dollar even more.

October 2002
1 Euro was .98 Dollar
1 Euro is now 1.55 Dollar

Dow Jones Avg bottomed out at 7,286.27 after dropping 38 percent sense Jan 02

Now lets convert this into Euro's

Oct 02 = 7140.54 Euro's

Dow Jones closed at 11,453.42

Based on current Euro's, that would be 7389.30

Now this is comparing a bottom out and not a monthy average. But you can see that the Dow Jones has not risen, the Dollar has fallen.

Now compared to gold
378.19 average price of Gold in Oct 02
920.75 closing price yesterday

143 percent increase
Dow
57 percent increase

Based on Gold, the Dow should be at 17,706 to keep up

Now country wide, our unemployment rate has increased this year.

[except in OK where they passed strict immigration laws]

It is at the highest sense 2004

Exactly. It's a sham. More dollars doesn't mean more value. That's why nearly all my money is in precious metals and energy stocks.

More dollars in circulation means less value.....stimulus check = more dollars in circulation and is kind of a government bailout of debt holders, (depending on how it is used). Thanks for my check-- I will see you after vacation!!!

When my Acct. finally does finish my Taxes, I will be using my free money to pay off part of my A/C I had to replace.

Free money is from those of you who pay taxes :D

It seems the government like to take money from you and then give it to people like me, just like Robin Hood. Due to tough times, I have not paid taxes sense 1998. In fact, I have received enough EIC to pay me back for the 6K I paid in 98 and at least 1/2 of the 8K in taxes I paid in 97 [my best income year]

Even in 2006, I nearly got all my back debt paid off, only got 1K in EIC and if things had not gone south in 2007, I would have gotten to pay taxes again.

And before you ask, until the program in shut down [which I am in favor of] I am going to take what the government is stupid enough to give me.

In fact, my wife and I are talking about filling for food stamps when we do get our tax return. What ever it takes to pay the bills considering I blame the government for the number 1 reason I am in this debt to begin with.

so much for liberty and small government.
this government dangles nooses in front of its victoms as benefits
and even those that dont like big government want all the nooses they can get.

This is from 2 years ago

Yes 2 years

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To tell the truth, I have been thinking about moving what little money I have into another currency. If I had done it 2 years ago into the Euro, I would have 50 percent more than right now.

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Classic

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Politics TV just posted this from Yesterday.

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Go to the Ron Paul thread for reaction from Fox Business, MSNBC, and CNN's Glenn Beck to todays grilling of Bernanke and the "Inflation Tax"

pretty good article spelling out what it going on right now.
Lonely, wounded dollar won't get any help. (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/business/epaper/2008/07/20/sunbiz_beckcol_0720.html?cxtype=rss&amp;cxsvc=7&amp;cxcat= 6)

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Record deficit expected in 2009 (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-07-27-deficit_N.htm)

A lot has been going on in the financial world in the last few weeks. Every week another large bank goes under. Even my own bank of WAMU is in danger from what I have read.

For a little more info on Freddy Mae and Freddy Mac

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Glenn Beck looks at the issues facing us in the national debts right ow.

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It's naive to blame the current financial crisis on too much regulation, or pressuring lenders to make bad loans. For real insight into the crisis investigate Credit Default Swaps (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&amp;aid=8634) for which regulation is forbidden by law through the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. This bill was sponsored in the house by Republicans and in the senate by members of both parties, passed both houses without debate, and was signed into law by Clinton all in the dead of night as Congress began their 2000 Christmas recess.

The only problem I see is that the Treasury and the Federal Reserve keep bailing out these companies.

LET THEM FAIL

They wont do it again, but if you bail them out, it is just like saying they did the right thing.

I personally don't care how many banks or mortgage companies go under, they did it to themselves. If you invested in junk, you will loose money. Now that this has happened, investors will look deeper into what they were investing in.

Every time I hear about the FED or Treasury bailing out a bank, it really pisses me off. :mad:

I understand the sentiment. However, AIG is the largest player in the CDS market. Just how big is that market? Over 62 trillion dollars -- nearly 3 times the U.S. stock market! And a very large amount of that money is secured with -- smoke and mirrors. Just about every bank, every insurance company, every investment company, has exposure through AIG. AIG fails and YOU, personally, will feel the effects for years to come.

Do you think the insurance industry should be unregulated? Well, Credit Default Swaps are essentially unregulated insurance policies bought by investors to protect against loan defaults.

Who was one of the sponsors of the aforementioned deregulation bill? Phil Gramm, currently chief economic advisor to John McCain.

Phil Gramm, currently chief economic adviser to John McCain.



This statement is false, Phil Gramm stepped down as chief economic adviser a long time ago.

yes, I think the stock market should crash so it can correct itself. All these companies that did all this speculating and such should go out of business. They wont do it again.

You make it sound like the end of the market, no a lot of investors will loose money. They made bad investments.

However, the market will correct itself.

I didn't finish reading the article yet, but I did get tot he point it was talking about the root of the problem. The banks and the way the Federal Reserve works.

I am all for ENDING THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

They are one of the main reasons we are in this current situation.

This statement is false, Phil Gramm stepped down as chief economic adviser a long time ago.



You're right, my bad. I should have said "former". Gramm stepped down three months ago.



You make it sound like the end of the market, no a lot of investors will loose money. They made bad investments.



Credit Default Swaps are a pyramid scheme. And like all pyramid schemes it's the people on the bottom that get hurt the most. The market is so leveraged that everyone has been exposed. The people on the bottom are fixed income retirees, empty nesters nursing their 401ks for their own retirement, young workers prudently dollar cost averaging a few bucks each month for their future, and pizza shop owners relying on discretionary spending from those who thought they were being wise with their money.


They made bad investments.



And so the manufacturer can no longer get a loan to expand his operation. The contractor who was going to install the equipment has no work. The laborer who would have had a job running that machine or handling that product gets food stamps, and can't buy quite as many pizzas. The pizza shop owner has a hard time raising delivery prices to cover the increasing cost of gas because when there is an economic slowdown, the people at the bottom suffer the most.

already happening :p

Two articles from Glenn Beck (actually the first one is a transcript from todays broadcast)

Bank bust - Who's to blame? (http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/15375/)
How we got into this money mess (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/17/beck.wallstreet/index.html)

Glenn Beck ranks right up there with Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter, Matthews, Olberman, etc. IMO. Yeah, these are the folks to read and watch if you want honest reporting and analysis. Right.

That guy never should have stopped drinking.

"Credit Default Swaps are a pyramid scheme. "

not quite true, but they sure can feel like one. i disagree that its jst the little guys at the bottom that get hurt. yes, most of us find it difficult to sympathize with millionaires undergoing stressful financial times, but those guys are hurting also. the hurting for them started before it started for a lot of the rest of us. unfortauntely, i work in the construction business, so i got in on the hurt early on, but without being a millionaire :)

hey, i agree with 90% of what Glenn Beck says. I have been listening to him for years now. (every sense he went on the air in DFW on 570)

He is an idiot. Stop listening to idiots.

So by calling Glenn Beck an idiot and I say that I agree with him 90% of the time, you are calling me an idiot :mad:

Can't you get banned for that :D

_________________________________


I just listened to some of what Bush just said. We have just moved a step closer to Fascist Socialist nation.

I have a bunch of paperwork to do today, plus it is friday, I don't think I will have time to study exactly what he said.

I am a TRUE Conservative, I don't believe the government is there to help us, only to protect us from foreign threats. (Not policing the world) I do not agree or like what our government is doing. They are just making matters worse in the long run.

From a few articles I read yesterday from economists, It was government regulations and "plans" that caused all this to begin with.

As usual, anything the government touches gets messed up.

The Party's Over (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28616#continueA) by Patrick J. Buchanan

WTP Brings Federal Lawsuit to Stop AIG Bailout

U.S. Lacks Constitutional Authority for Loan


On the day following the 221st anniversary of the signing of the U.S. Constitution, WTP Chairman and constitutional activist Robert Schulz today filed a federal lawsuit in United States District Court in Albany seeking to halt the execution of the emergency bailout of American International Group, Inc. (AIG) by the United States Government and the Federal Reserve.

The lawsuit asserts that the commitment of public funds and credit for the direct benefit of privately owned AIG is an ultra virus action by the United States Government and Federal Reserve, i.e., beyond the limited legal authority granted by the Constitution. The lawsuit asks for a "show cause" hearing demanding that the Government produce evidence of its legal authority to commit public funds for such a purpose, as well as emergency and permanent injunctions halting the bailout transaction.

Beyond the Constitutional deficiencies, the bailout establishes a dangerous precedent enabling the Fed and/or Government to nationalize virtually any business or property within the United States without legal authority or congressional approval.

The defendants include the Federal Reserve System, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanki, the U.S. Treasury, Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson Jr. and the United States Government.

The WTP Foundation today issued a press release citing Schulz:

"Beyond the moral hazard and dangerous precedent established by this action, it is of vital importance that the American people recognize that the present financial crisis is a direct and predictable result of decades of constitutional violations by the Federal Government. Through a long-standing policy of disinformation and collusion with the Federal Reserve and Wall Street financial elite, the United States Federal Government has denied public access to information about the secretive operations of the privately owned and operated Federal Reserve and its monopoly control of America's money system.

"This monopoly control of our currency by a private banking cartel has resulted in increasing distortion, volatility and cyclical (boom and bust) economic conditions in the U.S. and abroad. America's fiat currency (produced from thin air) is manipulated by the Federal Reserve for the benefit of its owners, major Wall Street financial institutions and the Federal Government and is not unaccountable to the taxpayers. These abuses of the Constitution have taken our financial system to edge of the abyss. The chickens have come home to roost."

Click here to read the Complaint, the Memorandum of Law supporting the TRO, and Schulz's Declaration which includes several recent articles from the New York Times.

Day 2

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Day 3

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Wow, exactly what I have been trying to point out on this subject.

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this morning on CNN (9/19/08)

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Glenn Beck day 4

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Texas Republicans aren't backing Bush on bailout (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6012482.html)

Good for them, of course Ron Paul is on this list.

This is a good read, it makes you think.

Pollyanna creep (http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/19/news/economy/siklos_shadowstats.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008091915)

Interesting, I posted this over 3 months ago to start this thread


Economics is really the most important issue of the Presidential race.

But it will be ignored for the most part.

Obama and McCain will just keep saying they want to help you INSTEAD of talking about was really caused the problems and changing policy.

Obama will blame not enough government.

McCain will say there is no problem [still the current Bush Policy]

More government is NOT the problem, too much government is.

The answer is NOT to bail out bank, investment brokers, or even Mortgage holders. Bailing them out only makes the problem worse in the long run. People make mistakes and MUST pay for them. Call it a ''Stupid Tax'' [does anyone know who calls it this]




Well recent revelations have caused the candidates of the 2 major parties to start talking about economics.

Unfortunately, both are wrong in different ways on there solutions.

Obama thinks more regulations will stop it when it was regulations that cause it. (I will post more on this later)

McCain finally is talking about the bad things, but he has no idea what he is talking about. One day he says the right thing in not favoring bailouts, the next day he says maybe we should (I will tell you why, his backers told him to)

CEO's Golden Parachutes (http://www.newsweek.com/id/159439)

This will [censored] you off even more about the bail outs.

How can these guys get paid so much, and then have the government Nationalize there companies.

The Young Turks is a Progressive radio show.

usually he pisses me off, but this time he is right.

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[QUOTE]
CEO's Golden Parachutes (http://www.newsweek.com/id/159439)

A question for all of you who are paying attention: What kind of retirement plans do career politicians get from serving 2, 4 or 6 years? (Besides all the breaks they get while actually in office.)
IMO, this country does not need any more career politicians, making the same promises running for president while getting paid to do a job they're not focusing on.

have you ever wondered why the stats tend to be better now, even though your pocketbook says otherwise.

Check out this web site.

http://www.shadowstats.com/

This would be funny if it were not so true

How We Became the United States of France (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1843168,00.html?xid=rss-topstories)

The Bubbleologist (http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/20/shiller-buble-economy-biz-wall-cx_jz_0920shillerqa.html?feed=rss_popstories)

Bailout strikes many on Main Street as unfair (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6014957.html)

Some good quotes from this article


"I've been financially responsible with my own money. Why should I now be responsible for the fact that you were not?"

The taxpayers are on the hook for the bad judgment of others.

They didn't break it, but now they've bought it.

"If I spent more money than I have, I don't deserve to have somebody bail me out,"

White House warned 17 times about problems with Fannie and Freddie

September 22, 2008 - 11:07 ET

For many years the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of financial turmoil at a housing government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties. President Bush publicly called for GSE reform 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted. Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.

2001

April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

2002

May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

2003

January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.

September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

2004

February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore�should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

2005

April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America� Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August � up 115 percent from the year before.

September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month � the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs � and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

2008

January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by � helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

* "Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)
* "[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that � and Congress is making progress on this � is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)
* Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.

(White House Press Release)

Remind me - Who forgave all debt that foreign nations owed us back in 2000, declaring it a "Year of Jubilee"? :confused: (Old Testament law)

Text of the Bailout Legislation
� Posted September 20th, 2008 at 12.20pm in Entrepreneurship.
The following language was circulated on Capitol Hill this morning as Treasury�s plan to purchase residential or commercial mortgages. Heritage released eight goals and strategies that should guide lawmakers during the debate this coming week.
LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS
Section 1. Short Title.
This Act may be cited as ____________________.
Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.
(a) Authority to Purchase.�The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.
(b) Necessary Actions.�The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:
(1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties;
(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;
(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;
(4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and
(5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act.
Sec. 3. Considerations.
In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for�
(1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and
(2) protecting the taxpayer.
Sec. 4. Reports to Congress.
Within three months of the first exercise of the authority granted in section 2(a), and semiannually thereafter, the Secretary shall report to the Committees on the Budget, Financial Services, and Ways and Means of the House of Representatives and the Committees on the Budget, Finance, and Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate with respect to the authorities exercised under this Act and the considerations required by section 3.
Sec. 5. Rights; Management; Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.
(a) Exercise of Rights.�The Secretary may, at any time, exercise any rights received in connection with mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act.
(b) Management of Mortgage-Related Assets.�The Secretary shall have authority to manage mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act, including revenues and portfolio risks therefrom.
(c) Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.�The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act.
(d) Application of Sunset to Mortgage-Related Assets.�The authority of the Secretary to hold any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act before the termination date in section 9, or to purchase or fund the purchase of a mortgage-related asset under a commitment entered into before the termination date in section 9, is not subject to the provisions of section 9.
Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases.
The Secretary�s authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time
Sec. 7. Funding.
For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure.
Sec. 8. Review.
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
Sec. 9. Termination of Authority.
The authorities under this Act, with the exception of authorities granted in sections 2(b)(5), 5 and 7, shall terminate two years from the date of enactment of this Act.
Sec. 10. Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt.
Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000.
Sec. 11. Credit Reform.
The costs of purchases of mortgage-related assets made under section 2(a) of this Act shall be determined as provided under the Federal Credit Reform Act of 1990, as applicable.
Sec. 12. Definitions.
For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) Mortgage-Related Assets.�The term �mortgage-related assets� means residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008.
(2) Secretary.�The term �Secretary� means the Secretary of the Treasury.
(3) United States.�The term �United States� means the States, territories, and possessions of the United States and the District of Columbia.
� Author: Rob Bluey
� Interact: Sphere
� Share This
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� Tagged with bailout
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Congress, Bush team agree on some bailout terms (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FINANCIAL_MELTDOWN?SITE=CAVIC&amp;SECTION=HOME&amp;TEMPLAT E=DEFAULT)

Economists Worry About Carte Blanche Bailout (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6016822.html)

September 23, 2008

By Doug Patton



"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." - George Bernard Shaw

A half century ago, Russian-born writer Ayn Rand warned about the creeping socialism she saw in America even then. In her thousand-page tome, "Atlas Shrugged," Rand told the story of John Galt, a shadowy figure who is so fed up with high taxes, burdensome regulations and interference from government, he secretly recruits the best and brightest of American capitalism - the captains of industry - to withdraw from society to the mountains of Colorado, leaving the growing welfare state without any visible means of support.

Imagine what Ayn Rand would say about the federal government coughing up quantities of cash even career bureaucrats didn't talk about in the 1950s; all to bail out quasi-government entities whose overseers were complicit in the failures of those very institutions.

Republicans and Democrats alike share the blame for this mess. It was largely created out of a misguided need (mostly by Democrats) to feel as though America was actually doing something to help the poor own their own homes. This may be a worthwhile goal, but when people who have absolutely no hope of paying back loans are approved to buy a home, one has to ask, "Who is going to pick up the tab for all this?" Answer: You are, to the tune of at least a trillion dollars, a sum most of us cannot even fathom.

Over the last decade, Democrats like U.S. Rep. Barney Frank, D-MA, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, and U.S. Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-CN, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, have insisted that these ridiculous loans be made. Former Attorney General Janet Reno, carrying out the wishes of her boss, threatened legal action against any institution that discriminated or "redlined." I was very disappointed to hear John McCain say on CBS's "60 Minutes" that he admired New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo and would consider him to head up the Securities and Exchange Commission. As Bill Clinton's Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), Cuomo was up to his eyeballs pushing the sub-prime mortgages that started these dominoes tipping in the first place.

And where were Newt Gingrich and the Republicans in the 1990s when Clinton and his cronies were building this house of cards? The GOP held the House and the Senate during most of Clinton's tenure. After 2000, they also held the White House. Why did this situation continue?

The rule in Washington seems to be this: If you squander your money and fail to provide for yourself, the government will take care of you. If you save, invest wisely and prepare for your retirement, you will be penalized in order to pay for those who did not. A perfect example was the tax increase passed by Clinton and the Democrats who still controlled Congress during the first two years of his administration. Seniors who had saved and invested for retirement, and who made more than $34,000 ($44,000 per couple) received a tax increase under that plan.

The frightening thing about the trillion dollar bailout is that everyone seems so willing to go along with it. It is as though we have finally accepted the idea that government is the one entity that has the resources to pull off such a plan. Well, guess what. Government doesn't have a nickel. Government is in the hole to the tune of ten trillion dollars. (Put that number in your pipe and fathom it!) But government has two things no one else has. Government has the power to print money and the power to raise taxes.

Alternatives may yet see the light of day in Congress. Perhaps in this hour of crisis, our representatives will see that the private sector could probably pull itself out of this with some very favorable tax policy. At least try repealing the capital gains tax to see if private firms wouldn't consider buying up these companies.

Or better yet, how about the Fair Tax, so that the billions in offshore accounts can come flooding back into the economy without fear of being sacked by the feds?

Those who for years have predicted America's slide into the cesspool of collectivism have been vindicated by the taxpayer-financed bailout of the mortgage and insurance industry. In essence and in fact, the United States government has nationalized these industries. Hugo Chavez no doubt is amused.

---

I posted comments by Ron Paul in the Ron Paul thread.

Here is a Blog post by Mike Huckabee from his web site.

Bailing On Our Principles
by Mike Huckabee

Frankly, I�m disappointed and disgusted with my own Republican party as I watch them attempt to strong-arm a bailout of some of America�s biggest corporations by asking the taxpayers to suck up the staggering results of the hubris, greed, and arrogance of those who sought to make a quick buck by throwing the dice. They lost, but want the rest of us to cover their bets so they won�t be effected in their lavish lifestyles as they figure out how to spend their tens of millions and in some cases, hundreds of millions in bonuses and compensation which was their reward for not only sinking their companies, but basically doing the same to the entire American economy.

It�s especially disconcerting to see the very people who pilloried me during the Presidential campaign for being a �populist� and not �understanding Wall Street� to now line up like thirsty dogs at the Washington, D. C. water dish, otherwise known as Congress, and plead for help. I thought these guys were the smartest people in America! I thought that taxpayers like you and I were similar to the people at the U. N. who have no translator speaking into their headset - that we just needed to trust those that I called the power bunch in the �Wall Street to Washington axis of power.�

The idea of a government bailout in which we�d entrust $700 billion to one man without Congressional oversight or accountability is absurd. My party or not, that is insanity and I believe unconstitutional.

Will there be far-reaching consequences without some intervention? Probably, but we honestly don�t know since we�ve really never seen this level of greed and stupidity all rolled into one massive move. But may I suggest that letting �Uncle Sugar� step in and bail out the billionaires who made the mess will be far worse and will start a long line of companies and individuals who will demand the same of the government---which last time I checked means that they will be demanding it out of YOU and ME. This is not money that Congress is risking from THEIR pockets or future, but ours. Many if not most of us have already experienced lost value on our homes, retirement accounts, and pensions. Now they�d like for us to assume some further risks so they won�t have to.

What happened to the �free market� idea? Is that only our view when we WIN and when we LOSE, we ask the government to come in and take away the pain?

If you are a small business owner, is this the way it works at your place? When you have a bad month, a bad year, or face having to close, can you go up to Congress and get them to write YOU a fat check to take away your risk?

Some of what contributed to this disaster is too much government in the form of Sarbanes/Oxley. Some is due to the tax structure that created the hunger for companies to �game� the system. Some is the common sense that was ignored like loaning money to people who can�t pay it back.

Wall Street has become Las Vegas east, but at least in Vegas, people KNOW they are gambling and they don�t expect the government to cover their losses at the tables. In Wall Street, they do. And the American taxpayer burdens the responsibility.

If Congress wants to do something, here are some suggestions:

1. Eliminate ALL capital gains taxes and taxes on savings and dividends right now. Free up the capital and encourage investment. This is the kind of economic stimulus the Fair Tax would bring and if Congress is going to lose money, let them lose it with lower taxes, not with public dollar bailouts of private market mistakes.

2.

Repeal Sarbanes/Oxley. It has failed. It was supposed to prevent this. It didn�t. Kill it.

3. Demand that the executives who steered their ships into the ground be forced to pay back the losses of their companies. Of course, they can�t, so let them work and give back to the government and they can live like the people they put on the streets or kept there. It makes no sense to put them in jail�that�s just more they will cost you and me. I�d rather them go out and earn money�just not get to keep so much of it this time. I�m not talking about limiting CEO salaries---just those of the people who now are up in Washington begging for help because they ruined their companies.

Attempts by Democrats and Republicans to blame each other is nonsense. They are both guilty and ought to own up and admit it. They all lived off big campaign contributions and the swill of the lobbyists who strong armed them into permission to steal. Enough of blame. Fix it!

This would be a start. If we don�t hold these guys responsible, we are all finished.

Fed plows $30 billion in foreign money markets (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26862762/)

i have not had a chance to look into it yet, but I heard on the radio this morning that the UN was talking about a global currency.

man, I use to think those that talked about the "new world order" were just conspiracy nuts.

Now I am starting to wonder as I actually wake up and pay attention.

Marc Faber: Let the crisis burn itself out

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BTW, I will be stopping by my congressman's office tomorrow to voice my opinions. There are a lot of us doing this across the country.

Economists: Country Can Survive Without Bailout (http://www.startribune.com/nation/29662139.html)

Economists, experts skeptical of bailout (http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20080924_Economists__experts_skeptical_of_bailout. html)

Fed plows $30 billion in foreign money markets (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26862762/)

i have not had a chance to look into it yet, but I heard on the radio this morning that the UN was talking about a global currency.

man, I use to think those that talked about the "new world order" were just conspiracy nuts.

Now I am starting to wonder as I actually wake up and pay attention.



The "End Times" Christians are probably praising the crisis and a global currency so Jesus will come back.

Fed plows $30 billion in foreign money markets (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26862762/)

i have not had a chance to look into it yet, but I heard on the radio this morning that the UN was talking about a global currency.

man, I use to think those that talked about the "new world order" were just conspiracy nuts.

Now I am starting to wonder as I actually wake up and pay attention.



The "End Times" Christians are probably praising the crisis and a global currency so Jesus will come back.


What an ignorant statement. What exactly is an "End Times" Christian? No true Christian would praise a crisis or negative situation.
Plus, the current state of the economy is by no means an apocalypse spawning event. Or is that just another rumor you are trying to start?

Fed plows $30 billion in foreign money markets (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26862762/)

i have not had a chance to look into it yet, but I heard on the radio this morning that the UN was talking about a global currency.

man, I use to think those that talked about the "new world order" were just conspiracy nuts.

Now I am starting to wonder as I actually wake up and pay attention.



The "End Times" Christians are probably praising the crisis and a global currency so Jesus will come back.


What an ignorant statement. What exactly is an "End Times" Christian? No true Christian would praise a crisis or negative situation.
Plus, the current state of the economy is by no means an apocalypse spawning event. Or is that just another rumor you are trying to start?



You'd be surprised at how the Evangelicals praise God whenever bad stuff happens. Not the event itself, but that it's one step closer to Revelation being fulfilled. Trust me, I grew up in Evangelical churches my whole life. They want this to happen because it's all part of God's plan in their minds.

And what rumors have I started? I've never started any rumor on here.

Hey, there is a thread for religion elsewhere.

Got an email from Ron Paul today, normally I would put it under Ron Paul, words of wisdom, but this time it really belongs here.
Dear Friends:

The financial meltdown the economists of the Austrian School predicted has arrived.

We are in this crisis because of an excess of artificially created credit at the hands of the Federal Reserve System. The solution being proposed? More artificial credit by the Federal Reserve. No liquidation of bad debt and malinvestment is to be allowed. By doing more of the same, we will only continue and intensify the distortions in our economy - all the capital misallocation, all the malinvestment - and prevent the market's attempt to re-establish rational pricing of houses and other assets.

Last night the president addressed the nation about the financial crisis. There is no point in going through his remarks line by line, since I'd only be repeating what I've been saying over and over - not just for the past several days, but for years and even decades.

Still, at least a few observations are necessary.

The president assures us that his administration "is working with Congress to address the root cause behind much of the instability in our markets." Care to take a guess at whether the Federal Reserve and its money creation spree were even mentioned?

We are told that "low interest rates" led to excessive borrowing, but we are not told how these low interest rates came about. They were a deliberate policy of the Federal Reserve. As always, artificially low interest rates distort the market. Entrepreneurs engage in malinvestments - investments that do not make sense in light of current resource availability, that occur in more temporally remote stages of the capital structure than the pattern of consumer demand can support, and that would not have been made at all if the interest rate had been permitted to tell the truth instead of being toyed with by the Fed.

Not a word about any of that, of course, because Americans might then discover how the great wise men in Washington caused this great debacle. Better to keep scapegoating the mortgage industry or "wildcat capitalism" (as if we actually have a pure free market!).

Speaking about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the president said: "Because these companies were chartered by Congress, many believed they were guaranteed by the federal government. This allowed them to borrow enormous sums of money, fuel the market for questionable investments, and put our financial system at risk."

Doesn't that prove the foolishness of chartering Fannie and Freddie in the first place? Doesn't that suggest that maybe, just maybe, government may have contributed to this mess? And of course, by bailing out Fannie and Freddie, hasn't the federal government shown that the "many" who "believed they were guaranteed by the federal government" were in fact correct?

Then come the scare tactics. If we don't give dictatorial powers to the Treasury Secretary "the stock market would drop even more, which would reduce the value of your retirement account. The value of your home could plummet." Left unsaid, naturally, is that with the bailout and all the money and credit that must be produced out of thin air to fund it, the value of your retirement account will drop anyway, because the value of the dollar will suffer a precipitous decline. As for home prices, they are obviously much too high, and supply and demand cannot equilibrate if government insists on propping them up.

It's the same destructive strategy that government tried during the Great Depression: prop up prices at all costs. The Depression went on for over a decade. On the other hand, when liquidation was allowed to occur in the equally devastating downturn of 1921, the economy recovered within less than a year.

The president also tells us that Senators McCain and Obama will join him at the White House today in order to figure out how to get the bipartisan bailout passed. The two senators would do their country much more good if they stayed on the campaign trail debating who the bigger celebrity is, or whatever it is that occupies their attention these days.

F.A. Hayek won the Nobel Prize for showing how central banks' manipulation of interest rates creates the boom-bust cycle with which we are sadly familiar. In 1932, in the depths of the Great Depression, he described the foolish policies being pursued in his day - and which are being proposed, just as destructively, in our own:

Instead of furthering the inevitable liquidation of the maladjustments brought about by the boom during the last three years, all conceivable means have been used to prevent that readjustment from taking place; and one of these means, which has been repeatedly tried though without success, from the earliest to the most recent stages of depression, has been this deliberate policy of credit expansion.

To combat the depression by a forced credit expansion is to attempt to cure the evil by the very means which brought it about; because we are suffering from a misdirection of production, we want to create further misdirection - a procedure that can only lead to a much more severe crisis as soon as the credit expansion comes to an end... It is probably to this experiment, together with the attempts to prevent liquidation once the crisis had come, that we owe the exceptional severity and duration of the depression.

The only thing we learn from history, I am afraid, is that we do not learn from history.

The very people who have spent the past several years assuring us that the economy is fundamentally sound, and who themselves foolishly cheered the extension of all these novel kinds of mortgages, are the ones who now claim to be the experts who will restore prosperity! Just how spectacularly wrong, how utterly without a clue, does someone have to be before his expert status is called into question?

Oh, and did you notice that the bailout is now being called a "rescue plan"? I guess "bailout" wasn't sitting too well with the American people.

The very people who with somber faces tell us of their deep concern for the spread of democracy around the world are the ones most insistent on forcing a bill through Congress that the American people overwhelmingly oppose. The very fact that some of you seem to think you're supposed to have a voice in all this actually seems to annoy them.

I continue to urge you to contact your representatives and give them a piece of your mind. I myself am doing everything I can to promote the correct point of view on the crisis. Be sure also to educate yourselves on these subjects - the Campaign for Liberty blog is an excellent place to start. Read the posts, ask questions in the comment section, and learn.

H.G. Wells once said that civilization was in a race between education and catastrophe. Let us learn the truth and spread it as far and wide as our circumstances allow. For the truth is the greatest weapon we have.

In liberty,



Ron Paul

Do you support the bailout??? You can elaborate on your choice by posting.

I was wondering because I have found very few that support it, Left or Right. 570am in Dallas took calls for several hours and only 3 people called in to support it. I am hearing that from all over the country.

Did you know that each of you are on the hook for $3,200+ for this bailout proposal.

Did you know that we are already 9.8 TRILLION bucks in the hole as it is???

I drove by my congressman's office today to tell him that if he wants my vote, he need to vote against any bailouts of any type or I will vote for the Libertarian party candidate, David Casey (http://www.caseyforcongress.org/)

For the most part, Kenny Marchant is a pretty good guy. At the Texas State Convention, he mentioned to me that his son (Mathew Marchant, Carrollton City Council) is a HUGE fan of Mr. Jim's Pizza.

I firmly believe we're going to have another Great Depression if that bill passes. We're spending money we dont have, and that's exactly how the depression started. The gov't had no right to take public money and bail out private companies. We are so screwed now.

Several of the people I know that showed up to there congressmans office yesterday said they saw other people there.

In Lewisville, at Congressman Burgess's office, they said they had yet to have one person contact them in favor of the bailout. They also stated he is against the bailout.

Bailout protesters plan day of action Thursday (http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080925/092508_bailout_protests.html)

Oh yea, in the Republican party platform


http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/Economy.htm
Rebuilding Homeownership
Homeownership
remains key to creating an opportunity society. We support timely and
carefully targeted aid to those hurt by the housing crisis so that
affected individuals can have a chance to trade a burdensome mortgage
for a manageable loan that reflects their home?s market value. At the
same time, government action must not implicitly encourage anyone to
borrow more than they can afford to repay. We support energetic federal
investigation and, where appropriate, prosecution of criminal
wrongdoing in the mortgage industry and investment sector. We do not
support government bailouts of private institutions.
Government
interference in the markets exacerbates problems in the marketplace and
causes the free market to take longer to correct itself. We believe in
the free market as the best tool to sustained prosperity and
opportunity for all. We encourage potential buyers to work in concert
with the lending community to educate themselves about the
responsibilities of purchasing a home, condo, or land.

165 economists rip bailout plan (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&amp;pageId=76231)


The economists contend the plan is unfair, because it's a "subsidy to investors at taxpayers' expense."

The plan is ambiguous, they contend, as neither "the mission of the new agency nor its oversight are clear."

f the plan is enacted, the economists argue further, "its effects will be with us for a generation."

I just dont see why the gov't cant simply cut a check for each American for one million dollars instead of $700 billion.

Actually the bail out is saying that each and every American is chipping in $3200+ for the bailout.

this is on top of the $44,800+ each of us owe towards the national debt. (that is each as in you and your kids plus your wife, the average per household is way over 100K)

A few quotes from a Congressman

"Mr. Chairman, we have in this Country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks, hereinafter called the Fed.

This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of these United States, has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our Government. It has done this through the defects of the law under which it operates, through the maladministration of that law by the Fed and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it.

Some people who think that the Federal Reserve Banks United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lender. In that dark crew of financial pirates there are those who would cut a man's throat to get a dollar out of his pocket; there are those who send money into states to buy votes to control our legislatures; there are those who maintain International propaganda for the purpose of deceiving us into granting of new concessions which will permit them to cover up their past misdeeds and set again in motion their gigantic train of crime.

One of the greatest battles for the preservation of this Republic was fought out here in Jackson's time; when the second Bank of the United States, founded on the same false principles of those which are here exemplified in the Fed was hurled out of existence. After that, in 1837, the Country was warned against the dangers that might ensue if the predatory interests after being cast out should come back in disguise and unite themselves to the Executive and through him acquire control of the Government. That is what the predatory interests did when they came back in the livery of hypocrisy and under false pretenses obtained the passage of the Fed.

Meanwhile and on account of it, we ourselves are in the midst of the greatest depression we have ever known. From the Atlantic to the Pacific, our Country has been ravaged and laid waste by the evil practices of the Fed and the interests which control them. At no time in our history, has the general welfare of the people been at a lower level or the minds of the people so full of despair.



Sounds like it could have been said this week doesn't it.

These are quotes from a 25 min speech in Congress on May 23, 1933 by Congressman Louis T. McFadden, a Republican from Pennsylvania.

Now before you research and see what has been said about Congressman McFadden, let it be known that he was Chairman of the Banking and Currency Committee for more than 10 years before this speech. He was also the president of the Pennsylvania Bankers' Association (1914-15) and president of the First National Bank of Canton, Pennsylvania (1916-25).

He was not just some Congressman.

In 1936 it was written that he was shot at when getting out of a cab and was poisoned at a political banquet in Washington making him "violently ill" and surviving by having his stomach pumped.

McFadden died of "heart-failure sudden-death" on Oct. 3, 1936, after a "dose" of "intestinal flu." There are many conspiracies theorist that wonder if he wasn't poisoned again.

The question is not what his history was nor what some say about him now, but why would he say things like he did against the Fed when he could see first hand what they were up to. It really reminds me of Ron Paul because he says a lot of the same things. Ron Paul is cast as a "Conspiracy Nut" or "Wack Job", makes you really wonder why.

I have been meaning to research this more to see exactly what cause the housing bubble, I never at one time believed it was deregulations. So here is an email I got today



The Economic Crisis: We Were Warned!

by Jack Anderson, GOP Precinct 131 Chair, Frisco Area Victory Chair

and a former investment banker who is now a small business owner.



REPUBLICANS ISSUED WARNING YEARS AGO



We were warned. Several times, in fact. The Bush Administration gave us the first warning 6 years ago after only being in office for two months. The President�s 2002 budget request declared that, �Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are a potential problem because of the size of either one of them and that if either failed it could cause strong repercussions in financial markets.�



HOW DID WE GET INTO THIS SITUATION?



So how did buying a house create the financial quagmire from Main St. to Wall St. to the U.S. Government and back to Main St. in the form of a bailout? Answer: Government intervention in the free market process.



When people purchase homes through loans, the mortgage typically does not stay with the lending institution. It is then sold �upstream� to an investment bank who securitizes the mortgage and bundles it with hundreds of other mortgages to be re-sold in the secondary markets to investment banks and countless financial entities that purchase these Mortgage Backed Securities as investments in their portfolios. Because all of these securities were backed by the �full faith and credit� of the U.S Government, buyers never seriously considered the credit and collateral of the underlying mortgages.



Wall Street, in their innovative ways, also continued to create new, and many times, riskier investments from these securities. But one thing never changes: Every time a home owner defaults on paying his loan, it undermines the quality of the security that was purchased.



WHAT PART DO FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC PLAY IN THE CRISIS?



Freddie and Fannie were a problem as early as 2002 because the Clinton Administration and the Democrats in Congress wanted everyone in America to have a home regardless of income and credit. Freddie Mac (Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation) and Fannie Mae (Federal National Mortgage Association) are Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSE�s). They are backed by the federal government to buy mortgage loans from the lenders, so lenders can in turn go create more loans.



In a September 30, 1999 New York Times article written by Steven Holmes, it was reported that, �In a move that could help increase home owner ship rates, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lender. � Fannie Mae, the nation�s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people.� The article continued, �Fannie Mae was encouraged to help lending institutions make more loans to so-called sub prime borrowers�� In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk..�



This new program was intentionally geared toward people whose incomes and credit ratings were not sufficient to qualify for conventional loans. Many of these mortgages had what was called a �teaser rate� which initiated as a very low rate, later increased to a higher rate. People who could not qualify for conventional loans in the first place suddenly were saddled with even higher payments. Why did everyone think this would work? The housing market bubble. But, everything in life goes in cycles, especially real estate. So home values in various housing markets around the country started declining and people couldn�t pay their mortgages, making the underlying mortgages in those securities, which Wall Street. and the investment community buys, worth less every day. But, this new lending criteria continued.



ANOTHER REPUBLICAN WARNING IS IGNORED!



In addition to the warning in April 2002, the White House upgraded its warning in 2003 to �a systemic risk that could spread beyond just the housing sector.� In the Fall of 2003, the White House was pushing Congress hard for a new regulatory agency to oversee both Freddie and Fannie when, during the House Financial Services Committee of September 10, 2003, then Treasury Secretary John Snow said that ��we need to create a strong world class regulatory agency to oversee the safety and soundness �� of Fannie and Freddie.



In that same hearing, Secretary Snow received tremendous pushback from then ranking House Financial Services Committee member and now Chairman Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) who said, �Freddie &amp;Fannie are not in a crisis�. Instead, Frank said the Federal Government should do more to encourage Freddie and Fannie to increase efforts to get low income families into homes. �The more people, in my judgment, exaggerate a threat of safety and soundness, the more people conjure the possibility of serious financial losses, which I do not see, � Frank said. The legislation to create a regulatory body was blocked on a party line vote with all Democrats voting against it.





REPUBLICAN PROPOSE STRONGER REGULATIONS; DEMOCRATS KILL THE PROPOSAL



The Republicans again tried to be pro-active in this area in 2005, when the Senate Banking Committee Chaired by Richard Shelby (R-AL) tried to pass new strong regulations which would have prevented Freddie and Fannie from buying the bad loans. It would have created a new regulator for Freddie and Fannie with the power that a bank regulator has which safeguards everything a bank had in it loan portfolio. All of the Republicans voted for it all and all of the Democrats voted against , including the now-Chairman of the Committee, Chris Dodd (D-CN). Democrats voted against stronger regulations even after Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan warned Senators that Freddie and Fannie ��are playing with fire.� On April 6, 2005 at the Committee hearing, Greenspan cautioned, �We increase the possibility of insolvency and crisis��Without restrictions on the size of (Freddie and Fannie), we put at risk our ability to preserve safe and sound financial markets in the U.S.�. This prediction unfortunately is being shown to be correct. But because the Democrats voted to block, those new regulations never got to be considered by the full Senate and died.



Trying once again trying to avert a possible crisis and co-sponsoring legislation pushing for regulation, reform minded Senator John McCain (R-AZ), said in a speech on the Senate floor on May 25, 2006, � For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Freddie and Fannie �� and the sheer magnitude of these companies ...the GSE�s need to be reformed without delay.� The bill made it out of the Senate Banking Committee with a party line vote, all the Democrats voting against it, but knowing they would not have enough votes for passage, Senate Republicans could not bring it up on the Senate floor.



WHY HAVEN�T WE HEARD THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS?



Because, according to Brent Bozell of Media Research Center, the mainstream news media liked the concept of government-sponsored entities and bureaucracy. �It is a Holy Grail issue with liberals and media because they wanted people who couldn�t afford homes to have one. So the media looked the other way as the house of cards collapsed. Barney Frank prevented the solution from happening for years.�



The solution is being worked currently by the very people who caused it and they are suggesting a taxpayer bailout trying to cover their own mistakes and trying to make everyone think they have it handled. Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) said last week, �We don�t know what to do.� So the only solution they have is to, once again, make the taxpayers pay for it.



We should be talking about a workout not a bailout. There are several people with good ideas, but they are not chairing these committees that are meeting. And to blame this on the Republicans, as many partisans are attempting to do, is both incorrect and hypocritical. Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CN) said just today (September 25, 2008) that this crisis was avoidable. And he�s absolutely right. Problem is, Sen. Dodd was one of those who chose NOT to avoid it.

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He was correct in that the Federal Reserve causing the Great Depression, however the Federal Reserve caused the HUGE Housing bubble by keeping the interest rate too low.

They did this by trying to avoid a recession instead of letting the market correct itself.

9/27/08

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Peter schools this guy. I don't think he knows what he is saying. Several of his arguments support Peter's position.

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Think $700 billion is a lot? Check out U.S. debt (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6026324.html)

[QUOTE]
I have been meaning to research this more to see exactly what cause the housing bubble, I never at one time believed it was deregulations. Here's one insight:http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09192008/profile.html

This is a good read, it makes you think.

Pollyanna creep (http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/19/news/economy/siklos_shadowstats.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008091915)



I though I had posted something on this subject.

Phillips is the Straight Talk Express.
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/05/0082023

Phillips is the Straight Talk Express.
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/05/0082023



GREAT article, thanks for posting. I will be using that one in the future.

_____________________________________________


I just got word that Kay Bailey Hutchinson is going to vote for the bailout. I would vote against her, but she is not running this time. I have emailed her several times and nearly 75% of the time she is voting the opposite way I want her too.

And now she is talking about running for Governor??? Against Perry???? Talk about voting for the lessor of two evils.

I vote, Draft Michael Williams for Governor. (or the State rep from Tyler who said if the Texas House does not do anything about immigration this year, he will throw his hat into the ring in 2010.)

Punish her Senate-mate by voting against Cornyn. Please.

Use this link and web site to voice your opinion.

Email your Senators how to vote tonight!!!!!! (http://capwiz.com/jbs/issues/alert/?alertid=12000861&type=CO)

Punish her Senate-mate by voting against Cornyn. Please.



Actually I voted against Cornyn in the primaries. I voted for Larry Kilgore. (A Texas Secessionist) I wound up meeting Larry in Houston at the Texas Republican Convention. He is running for Governor again in 2010. web page (http://www.larryKilgore.com)

It depends on how Big John votes tonight. So far I agree with 90% of his votes. (that I cared about or emailed him about) He voted against the 300 billion bailout last month.

I don't think there is much chance I would vote for Rick Noriega, this is what he says about John McCain on his own web site.

John Cornyn's do-nothing record on immigration includes voting four times against the 2007 bipartisan immigration bill and against even debating the bill, despite telling The Hill that ''immigration reform is the No. 1 homeland-security issue out there.''


I support Big John's stance on those immigration bills. I also support the FACT that Big John got in John McCain's face over the Amnesty bill. (McCain cussed him out)

From the Evans-Novak report I just got

The conservative, free-market, anti-bailout forces in Washington are demoralized by this week's demonstration of just how shallow the GOP's limited-government roots really are. More pragmatic conservatives are livid at the stubbornness of the GOP "ideologues." This is not a conservative-vs.-moderate fault-line, but a leadership-vs.-rank-and-file fault-line.

Well I am watching the C-Span coverage up at work, (thanks to the internet)

They are about to vote on the "Credit Revitalization and Augmentation Program of 2008" or "CRAP" after the Amendments are voted on.

Well, with a vote of 75-24, they voted "CRAP" to be sent to the House.

Now I will be busy tomorrow contacting my Congressman. (Kenny Marchant) I may even stop by his office tomorrow morning (or Friday Morning) in person to voice my opinion.

Watch this to get an idea of how we got into this mess.

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This just in, 12% of illegal aliens from Mexico and South America are returning home because of concern for economics in US of A. ??!!

I guess this means they think things are now better in Mexico?

Actually I voted against Cornyn in the primaries. I voted for Larry Kilgore. (A Texas Secessionist) I wound up meeting Larry in Houston at the Texas Republican Convention. He is running for Governor again in 2010.




A Texas successionist??? Wow. You know that this sort of extreme ideology is on its way out? In times of crises, neuroses (which all extreme ideologies are) don't play well. Moderation in everything, including intellectual theories, is something to consider.

As to the conservative meltdown, I find it odd that there were actually true beleivers. Instead of realizing that conservative philosophy was a useful choice, but could be toned down if the environment dictated, some actually believed it is "true." The true believers are like people who suddenly lost their vision and are now in a frightful panic. Others, the moderates, are rubbing their eyes and starting to refocus on the world around them. Pragmatism and the ability to adapt is not a weakness. Must be lots of soul searching going on in the right wing crazy compound.

Bryan that was a joke. Just half-trying to get the Senate Dems to 60, sans Lieberman.

Kilgore got 225,897 votes in the Primary :D

I knew he had no chance, but I voted for him for the heck of it.

With this "CRAP" congress is going to pass, I may work on his campaign in 2010. Texas would be one of the strongest nations in the world if we were our own country. :D

After the lunch rush and getting dough done today, I WILL be posting all the JUNK that is in this "CRAP" Bill

Amendments like forcing insurance companies to cover mental health. I for one don't care if I am covered if it means lower premiums. (don't get me started on the farce that the mental heath industry is, I will refer you to a video that the shock you, needless to say, I feel sorry for anyone who puts there kids on Ritalin)

Artificial sweeteners taste so good... In the end they'll kill you. Reject! Reject! Reject! Act now! Act now! Act now!

The United States Senate passed the sweetened 'New and Improved' bailout bill last evening (Oct. 1, 2008). With a 74 aye and 25 nay vote, the bill passed in a landslide.

What WAS ORIGINALLY a $700 BILLION bailout of the Banksters, has now morphed into a 'sweetened' $850 BILLION "feel good" package.

How many times have WE said we want clean Bills? How many times have we said we want Bills that deal with ONLY the issue at hand? How many times have we screamed, "No more riders! No more add-ons!"

NOW THEY have done it again!! Stuck a bunch of add-ons into the Bill to make it palatable to the Senators to the tune of an EXTRA $150 BILLION! Ultimately, it will cost every man woman and child $10,000 to "feel" better about bailing out the Banksters.

Say, "No Way!!!" to your Congressperson. They vote tomorrow, Friday, October 3.

PLEASE remind your CONGRESSMAN their job is to CONTROL the purse strings. This bailout, no matter how "good" it feels, is not responsible government. Let the Free Market reign. Let Those fall who unscrupulously lent money to people who couldn't afford it. The poor folks who have fallen from this unethical behavior have already fallen. They can't get any lower. They've lost it all.

Let the Perps bear the consequences of their actions. What an insult to ask us to cover their backs.

The scripted mainstream media (MSM) talking heads, carry water for those who want the bailout. Don't listen to their tripe.

Remember: The MSM routinely lies and spins because they are propagandist mouthpieces. Also, remember: Almost everything they say, exactly the opposite is true. So if they say, "the sky will fall if we don't..." The TRUTH is, "the sky will fall if we DO..."

Will NOT bailing out the Banksters have global consequences? Probably. At this Country's founding, were we intended to have these kind of entanglements with other countries? NEVER.

We are no longer the freest people (nation) on earth BECAUSE of these kinds of entanglements.

Lean on your Congressperson to vote "No" on this bailout. Don't accept some condescending statement that "you just don't understand the global implications..." blah, blah, blah.

Don't swallow that kool-aid.

Also, remind the "Gentle Congressperson" this is an election year, that you will be watching their vote closely, and you have every intention of voting for their opposition if their vote on this issue is not representative of your position.

THEN don't let your words be an idle threat. If your "representative's" vote doesn't represent you, quote Donald Trump, "You're FIRED!"

Capitol switchboard 202-224-3121

Find your Congressperson:
http://www.house.gov/house/ MemberWWW_by_State.shtml

If you don't know what to say when writing your legislator, here is a sample letter written by Dr. Ron Paul:

Dear Representative/Senator:

I urge you to oppose Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's $700 billion bailout of Wall Street.

The bailout:

- violates the Constitution by authorizing the Treasury to purchase bad mortgage-related assets.

- greatly enlarges our national debt and further erodes the value of our dollar.

- bails out Wall Street at the expense of Main Street by putting taxpayer funds at risk while freeing up banks to continue making bad loans.

Already, hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent bailing out Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and AIG, and the final price tag for those moves could result in trillions of dollars being added to our national debt.

The bailout plan ignores the fundamental reason why our economy is in such crisis: the Federal Reserve and the federal government's interference in the market and manipulation of the money supply spurred major banks and other corporations to back bad mortgages.

Adopting this proposal will only continue the same flawed practices and greatly worsen the long-term effects.

The way out of this current economic crisis is to return to the principles that made this nation great: constitutionally-limited government, personal freedom, low taxes, and a belief in sound money.

I am asking that you strengthen our economy by taking action to:

1.) End the Bailouts - The Federal Reserve's authority to use taxpayer money to bail out Wall Street must be revoked and the Fed must be held accountable.

2.) Cut Taxes and Curb Regulation - If we really want to stimulate businesses and revive the market, we need to cut corporate and capital gains taxes, spurring investors to come back to the market and making it easier to attract new workers and clients. It is also time to repeal failed legislation like Sarbanes-Oxley, which has crippled capital markets, diminished our competitiveness, and greatly harmed small businesses.

3.) Reduce Spending - We must freeze all non-entitlement spending by the federal government at current levels and eliminate wasteful spending both domestically and in our trillion-dollar overseas budget. Our debt has to come down, and it won't until we start living within our means. Reducing spending and cutting the debt will strengthen our dollar and reduce our cost of living.

4.) Reform the Monetary System - If we are to have long-term economic progress, we must end the system of printing money out of thin air. The current laws limiting the circulation of gold and silver-backed currency must be overturned.

Thank you for your attention in regard to this matter. I will be closely watching as events unfold over the next several days. A vote to approve the bailout plan will cost you my vote for your next reelection bid.

Sincerely,

[Your name]


Again, we asking you to come to the aid of your Country. Make a phone call. Send an email. Storm their door, jam their computers, shut down the Capitol phone system.

Do what it takes to say you did not sit idle. WE, THE PEOPLE, have the power.

Caution: After the vote, scrutinize your Representative's voting history. If, overall, he/she hasn't voted for you, be prepared for him/her to continue his betrayal of you on future votes should he get re-elected. It may be time for him to go anyway.

Go to http://www.thenewamerican.com/files/TNA_Freedom_Index_110-3.pdf to see your Legislator's Freedom Score.

Ilona Urban, Blakeley
SC Volunteer Coordinator, Restore the Republic
National Press Secretary, Restore the Republic
864-253-0330 (land line)
864-237-2001 (mobile)

RestoreTheRepublic.com, 3149 Dundee Rd #176, Northbrook, Illinois 60062, USA

To unsubscribe or change subscriber options visit:
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SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES

By Darrell L. Castle
Constitution Party 2008 Vice-Presidential Candidate

Crystal water turns to dark
Where ere it?s presence leaves it?s mark
And boiling currents pound like drums
When something wicked this way comes.
(Original poem by Ray Bradbury)

Laws, originally evolving out of the New Deal legislation written in
response to the great depression, once protected the American financial
system. Starting in the 1990?s, in response to intense lobbying efforts
by the financial industry, those laws were stripped away. The most
important one was Glass Steagall which separated commercial banking from
the type of investment work of a stockbroker. Glass Steagall was signed
out of existence in 1999 by President Clinton and less than 10 years
later the entire financial system is bankrupt. Another law, known as The
Uptick rule, prevented companies from crashing due to large scale
shorting of company stock. A company?s stock could not be sold short as
long as it was in continuous decline. Short sellers had to wait for an
uptick in the stock before shorting. The Uptick Rule ended in 2007 just
about one year ago.

The end of the laws protecting the American public from unscrupulous
speculators disguised as bankers caused changes in the way our banks do
business. The banks decided that simple banking, that is loaning money
at interest, was not profitable enough so they began investing in risk
paper. This changed them from banks into something akin to casinos. Now
that the gamble has finally failed these new casinos are asking the
American taxpayer to pick up the tab for their greed and excess.

Now all this risk paper, known in the financial world as ?the
derivatives market? is collapsing. Derivatives are not stocks or bonds
or anything else substantial. They are simply paper derived from other
paper such as futures and options. Futures and options are exchange
traded derivatives, but the largest group of derivatives is not even
traded on the exchanges. These are called ?counterparty derivatives? and
consist of such things as collateralized debt obligations, mortgage
backed securities, and credit default swaps. It is estimated that total
derivative exposure of the financial system is between one quadrillion
and one and a half quadrillion. A quadrillion is 1000 trillion. To put
that in perspective, the entire GDP of all the world?s countries in 2007
was approximately 60 trillion. GDP is basically everything that is
produced for sale. The American people are now being asked to shoulder
the risk of the entire derivatives market and if
they do, 700 billion will prove to be a drop in the bucket.

The rapid increase in the price of fuel during the last year is a good
example of the destructive nature of the derivative market. Much of the
price increase was due to speculation in futures especially by Goldman
Sachs (Henry Paulson?s company) and Morgan Stanley. These companies, it
is believed, are responsible for about 50% of the speculative price of
oil. What that means is that every time we buy gas we subsidize the
parasites who feed off us so they can continue their existence. We are
now being asked to accept increased taxes to cover their losses.

Now that this mess has been created, what should be done to resolve it
with the least amount of pain for the American People?

1. All failed and at risk financial companies, not just those we
constantly read about, should be seized by the F.D.I.C. (Federal Deposit
Insurance Corporation) and put into involuntary Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.
The money people have on deposit would carry the same FDIC guarantee as
before so there would be no need for panic. The Chapter 11 trustee would
examine the assets of these institutions and all derivative paper should
be discharged in bankruptcy. The American people should not accept one
penny of risk for derivative paper. The real assets such as mortgages on
residential real estate should be separated and foreclosure should be
indefinitely frozen. The at risk mortgages, whether subprime or not,
could be written down to the current value of the property and
re-amortized for a payment the homeowner could afford. The mortgage
could then be returned to the bank for service or referred to Fannie and
Freddie if the bank did not survive Chapter 11.

2. The Federal Reserve Banks should be seized by Congress under Article
1 Section 8 of the Constitution. The FED banks could survive as
Clearinghouse banks but the Federal Reserve that has robbed the American
people for 100 years would cease to exist. The debt owed by the American
people to the FED banks would be discharged in bankruptcy. Congress
would take monetary policy from the FED and would simply stand in place
of the FED through a monetary board. The FED credit computers would be
transferred to Congress who would issue new credit (money) because under
our present system 97% of all money originates as credit. This new
credit would keep the system going and prevent collapse. It could all be
done without interest and without debt. The backs of the international
banking cartel would be broken forever and the American people through
their elected representatives would control monetary policy i.e. money
in circulation, interest rates, and credit
availability.

3. Glass Steagall and the Uptick Rule should be returned. Speculation in
the futures markets of essentials such as fuel, food, and medicine
should be banned or at least have a punitive tax say 50% attached.

4. The Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Trustee would immediately move to seize any
assets taken by the CEO?s and Boards of Directors from the bankrupt
companies during the prescribed time period. No bankruptcy system would
allow the CEO of the bankrupt company to keep hundreds of millions as in
some of these cases. At the same time, the U.S. Attorney should be
directed to examine the process for criminal sanctions where laws have
been violated.

In conclusion, this plan would return our monetary system to the
American People and ignite a new wave of prosperity and liberty. Every
crisis presents opportunities if we only look for them. This is an
opportunity for the American people to throw off the yoke of debt
bondage that has enslaved them for 100 years and gain direct control of
monetary policy through representatives answerable directly to them. No
particular philosophy has been respected or spared in this plan. I am
more interested in saving the system for the American people than I am
in respecting anyone?s philosophy of money or government. This is
intended to be a simple, easy to understand, explanation of our banking
crisis with a Constitutional solution

How the system worked (http://docs.google.com/TeamPresent?docid=ddp4zq7n_0cdjsr4fn&skipauth=true)

BTW, the Dow Jones average is down 350 right now. It is lower than what it was on Monday at closing.

so much for this "CRAP" bill helping Wall Street.

(BTW, I could have told you it would not help in the long run)



also, read my first post in this thread. I said then and am still saying it, this is the most important issue and was being ignored at the time. Now it is the biggest issue and Obama and McCain are BOTH on the wrong side.

Figures.

Provide the government an equity stake, through non-voting or preferred stock, in companies that are unloading bad assets. If these companies go bankrupt, these warrants convert to a type of debt that places the government at the head of the list of creditors in any bankruptcy proceeding.



Does that bother you any???


Give the Treasury secretary broad discretion to buy virtually any distressed asset in an effort to get it off the books of a troubled bank or financial firm and help unclog the credit markets. This is called the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP.


wow, and how much is he going to pay for these??? I have heard talk that he may buy up bad debt from credit card companies.
Provide $250 billion immediately to purchase mortgage-backed securities and other troubled assets, another $100 billion with the president's authorization and the remaining $350 billion would be subject to separate congressional approval.


This is the "No Banker left Behind 2008 Act"


Give the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. the ability to borrow without limit from the Treasury to help stabilize banks it regulates, both large and small. This isn�t in the House legislation.


Where does the Treasury get the money to do this????


Allow the FDIC to raise deposit insurance to $250,000 from the current $100,000. Affects the sum of deposits, not each account, in a depositor's name at any given bank. This too isn�t in the House legislation



From what I have read, this is only for 2 years.


Raise the nation's debt ceiling to $11.3 trillion.

.
That is $56,500 for each and every member of your family and yourself. so a family of 4 owes $226,000


Reaffirm that the Securities and Exchange Commission has the authority to suspend an accounting rule that some critics think has exaggerated the deflated prices of the toxic mortgage bonds at the heart of the financial crisis. The practice, called mark-to-market reporting, requires banks and other financial firms to report the present-day value of distressed assets that have a hold-to-maturity value. This also is called fair-value reporting, and it was implemented after the Enron scandal to discourage reporting of inflated prices.



This is not necessarily a bad thing.


# Limit the tax write-offs for executive compensation above $500,000 for companies that sell distressed assets to the government.

# Prohibit "golden parachutes" for executives of firms that are selling assets directly to the government. If the government purchases from a firm, via auction, $300 million or more in troubled assets, similar limits on bonuses and other executive compensation would apply.



This is one thing that would not happen in the company went bankrupt anyways.

now for the "Other stuff" in the bill passed last night by the Senate


Make permanent authority for undercover operations.



What????


Make permanent authority for disclosure of information relating to terrorist activities.



What??? This is something they are trying to ride underneath the bill


* Extend the renewable energy tax credit for wind and refined coal facilities, and expands use of biomass.

* Extend tax credits for marine and hydrokinetic research, which involves energy created from waves and tides, as well as solar and fuel-cell research.

* Allow energy credits to be counted against the alternative minimum tax.

* Give steelmakers tax credits for purchase of renewable fuels.

* Let utilities issue tax-free bonds to promote use of clear, renewable fuels.

* Expand tax credits for investment in coal gasification programs.

* Extend by four years a temporary increase in the coal excise tax to fund black-lung disability programs for miners.

* Provide tax credits for carbon sequestration efforts.

* Allow producers of cellulosic bio-fuels to seek accelerated tax depreciation.

* Double the tax credit for production of bio-diesel and renewable diesel fuels.

* Extend a tax credit of $2,500 to plug-in electric hybrid vehicles.

* Allow fringe benefit reimbursement for qualified bicycle commuters.

* Broaden the scope for issuance of conservation bonds.

* Extend current deductions for energy efficient commercial buildings and homes.

* Provide small tax credits for purchase of energy efficient dishwashers, washing machines and refrigerators.

* Accelerate tax deductions for use of smart meters that help a consumer regulate energy use to reduce peak-hour consumption.

* Reduce by 3 percent the tax deductions on income enjoyed by producers, refiners, transporters and distributors of oil and natural gas.

* Eliminate the difference in tax treatment of foreign oil and natural gas production and foreign oil-related income.

* Extend and increase by 3 cents a barrel the oil spill liability tax.


What does any of that stuff have to do with the bailout???????

But wait, it gets better


In a section on the tax code, the Senate bill also would:

* Raise the exemption level of the alternative minimum tax from the current $66,250/$44,350 for joint or single filers to $69,950/$46,200.

* Extend tuition deductions.

* Extend certain deductions for elementary and secondary school teachers.

* Extend an additional standard deduction on real property taxes for non-itemizers.

* Continue tax-free distribution from retirement plans to charities.

* Extend and modify the research tax credit.

* Extend restaurant improvement credits.

* Extend the tax credit for mine-rescue team training.

* Extend the tax credit for advanced mine safety equipment.

* Accelerate depreciation of business property on Indian reservations.

* Extend cost recovery period for motor racing tracks.

* Extend work opportunity tax credit for Hurricane Katrina employees.

* Extend increased rehabilitation credit for structures in Gulf of Mexico opportunity zone.

* Extend tax credit for investment in the District of Colombia.

* Increase tax deduction for charitable contributions to food inventory.

* Increase tax deduction for charitable book giving.

* Raise to $8,500 the income threshold for calculating the refundable portion of a child tax credit.

* Exempt from excise tax certain wooden arrow shafts for use by children.

* Clarify income averaging for settlement amounts received in connection with Exxon Valdez litigation.

* Provide temporary tax relief for areas damaged by Midwestern storms, tornadoes and flooding and by Hurricane Ike.



So as you see, if you vote against this bill, you are voting against the people affected by Hurricane Ike



The legislation also includes a section on creating parity for the insurance treatment of mental health problems. It ends with sections on state and local government and how these governments secure funds for federal lands within their boundaries.


Actually, from what learned today, this "CRAP" Bill was attached to the Parity Bill that has been in the works for a long time. Sen Dodd had it attached to bring it up to a vote yesterday instead of later.

The Health Parity bill will RAISE YOUR INSURANCE RATES EVEN MORE.

and we have not even gotten to the pork attached to the bill

Some of the Earmarks attached to the bill


New Tax earmarks in Bailout bill

- Film and Television Productions (Sec. 502)

- Wooden Arrows designed for use by children (Sec. 503)

- 6 page package of earmarks for litigants in the 1989 Exxon Valdez incident, Alaska (Sec. 504)

Tax earmark �extenders� in the bailout bill.

- Virgin Island and Puerto Rican Rum (Section 308)

- American Samoa (Sec. 309)

- Mine Rescue Teams (Sec. 310)

- Mine Safety Equipment (Sec. 311)

- Domestic Production Activities in Puerto Rico (Sec. 312)

- Indian Tribes (Sec. 314, 315)

- Railroads (Sec. 316)

- Auto Racing Tracks (317)

- District of Columbia (Sec. 322)

- Wool Research (Sec. 325)

Marc Faber on Bernanke and Paulson 9/26/08
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COLLEGE STATION (Real Estate Center)
As negotiations continue over the proposed $700 billion bailout of the nation's financial system, Dr. Mark Dotzour, chief economist for the Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University, offers his perspective:
It's a sad day in America when the federal government (the American taxpayer) has to bail out homeowners who purchased homes they couldn't possibly afford. It's sad because of the vast majority of Americans who live within their means and pay their mortgages on time are now being asked to pay for other people's mistakes.
It's a sad day in America when we have to spend billions to bail out financial institutions that made loans to those people, then sold those loans to pension funds and endowment associations that had no idea of the risk they were taking when they bought the complex and sophisticated bonds. Complex and sophisticated is just a euphemism for I have no earthly idea what I'm buying.
Now for the pragmatism. If we don't bail out the banks, the American economy grinds to a halt. Many U.S. businesses are financed with short-term notes that mature in 90 to 180 days. This is called commercial paper. What happens when your 90-day note matures, and nobody will refinance it? Just ask Fannie and Freddie, who had $225 billion in short-term notes mature and nobody would refinance them. Hasta la vista. The commercial paper market is virtually frozen, and many businesses are in the same boat as Frannie was.
The smartest people working in the global financial system say that this $700 billion is a good first step, that it might help to thaw the frozen credit markets but that the devil is in the details. Some say it might take another $500 billion later.

The fact is that there is a market for these bad loans. It's about 22 cents on the dollar. The problem is that nobody wants to sell for that price as long as the taxpayers will pay a higher price. So the federal government will buy these assets for a higher price, and it's possible that they can sell them later and make a profit. It's possible that the net cost to the taxpayer will be very little. The bottom line is that we are in uncharted waters, and this $700 billion plan is the best plan that seems to have some hope of temporarily solving the problem.
The long-term problem is still on the table, and that is the simple fact that the U.S. government can't keep spending more money than it has. Even governments can go bankrupt. The long-term solution for the U.S. government and every American household is to live within their means.

Who is going to want to invest in mortgage bonds in the future if the federal government can freeze the interest rates below what was promised? Who is going to want to invest in mortgage bonds if the government can cram down the principal on the bonds you bought? Until the federal government can restore some confidence in the global investment community that if you buy a mortgage bond you have a reasonable certainty of getting your principal and the promised interest, the problems will linger.

now California needs a bailout???

Gov. Schwarzenegger asks Treasury for $7B loan (http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/081003/100308_california_crisis.html)

What is it going to take for our government to live within it's means.

i think tough love and CUT THEM OFF.

yes it would hurt in the short term, but would be the best fix for the long term.

I am so glad that Texas can not go into debt. We have had 2 years of 10 BILLION dollar surpluses with a 3rd year projected.

This is a result of the Republican's taking over of the House a few years ago. At least a majority of the Texas government are true conservatives.

I want to mark today, October 3rd 2008 as the day the 2nd Great Depression started.

Today is the day Congress passed the horrible "No Banker's Left Behind" bill on to Bush to sign. (and you know it will sign it)

Congress OKs historic bailout bill (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ioHc80xKMiATnqCpK0cDKJzk_nPQD93J5NJO0)

the result, well as of right now, the Dow Jones has DROPPED over 100 points sense the Act was passed.

it is not the end of the day yet, but the Dow Jones average has dropped 150 points sense the bill was passed.

I looked up and saw that my Congressman voted against the bill. Good for him, he still has my vote in November. (actually I will be early voting in October)

Kenny Marchant CD24
Steve Burgess CD26
Ted Poe CD2 (Tyler Area)
and of course Ron Paul CD14 (Galveston to Victoria area)

All voted against the Bill, they are my favorite congressmen.

The worst of those 4 is my Congressman, but I will be letting him know my views and holding him to his Conservative platform.

these Congressmen are on the **** list. They all voted for the bailout.

Kay Granger CD12 (north of Denton area)
Pete Sessions CD32 (East Dallas area)

We already have a protest at a fund raiser for Pete Sessions scheduled this weekend. We are also looking for a conservative Republican to run against Kay Granger in 2010.

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Did anyone else notice the Dow closed $250 points DOWN from when the "CRAP" bill was signed.

Did that make the news?????

wow, I just found out that even before I checked it out, before the vote in the house, the Dow Jones average was up 300 points.

so it dropped 480 points from it's high this morning.


So much for the Bailout.

I don't think we have seen the bottom yet, I do think we may see the bottom this month though. (at least I hope)

A lot of it depends on how other countries value our dollar. If our dollar crashes, so will wall street. That is what I have been trying to warn everyone about.

in the mean time, congress just made this recession last longer with there bailout. (they may even cause a Depression)

Jim Rogers is good, listen to this one from earlier this week.

He is one of the few people making money right now because he knows his stuff.

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A few speeches before the "CRAP" "No banker left behind" Bill
(D) Brad Sherman
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(R) Steve LaTourette
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(R) Thaddeus McCotter
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Bag of Dung
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(D) Marcy Kaptur
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(R) Spencer Bachus
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Interesting.

NYSE Announces Fourth-Quarter 2008 Circuit-Breaker Levels
NEW YORK , September 30, 2008 -- The New York Stock Exchange will implement new circuit-breaker collar trigger levels for fourth-quarter 2008 effective Wednesday, October 1, 2008.

Circuit-breaker points represent the thresholds at which trading is halted marketwide for single-day declines in the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA). Circuit-breaker levels are set quarterly as 10, 20 and 30-percent of the DJIA average closing values of the previous month, rounded to the nearest 50 points.

In fourth-quarter 2008, the 10, 20 and 30-percent decline levels, respectively, in the DJIA will be as follows:

Level 1 Halt
A 1,100-point drop in the DJIA before 2 p.m. will halt trading for one hour; for 30 minutes if between 2 p.m. and 2:30 p.m.; and have no effect if at 2:30 p.m. or later unless there is a level 2 halt.

Level 2 Halt
A 2,200-point drop in the DJIA before 1:00 p.m. will halt trading for two hours; for one hour if between 1:00 p.m. and 2:00 p.m.; and for the remainder of the day if at 2:00 p.m. or later.

Level 3 Halt
A 3,350-point drop will halt trading for the remainder of the day regardless of when the decline occurs.
Background:
Circuit-breakers are calculated quarterly. The percentage levels were first implemented in April 1998 and are adjusted on the first trading day of each quarter. In 2008, those dates are Jan. 2, April 1, July 1 and Oct. 1.

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Did anyone notice that on Friday, they almost had to stop trading based on my last post??? The DOW had a 1000 Point swing on Friday to finish the last 2 weeks at 35% down.

I don't think it will go much lower, if it does, we are really in a pickle.

BTW, gas just hit $2.99 per gallon in Carrollton. It should go another 30 cents in the next 2 weeks.

I know at least one person who is out there.
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London
http://www.insideautomotive.com/images/protest_000.jpg

Jim Rogers on Bloomberg 10/10/08

pt1
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pt2
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I don't know how to embed these but figured you'd enjoy this one PG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dpJL6ANnV0&eurl=http://economicrot.blogspot.com/

That is "Zeitgeist (Addendum)" I have been meaning to dig up the my old Zeitgeist thread and posting that there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk05GjcsAU8

I posted the link instead of the video so you can read the lyrics of the song. I don't much care for the song, but the message is dead on and so true.

I want this sign for my front yard (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1444604&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=37397144782&aid=-1&id=782693689&oid=37397144782#/photo.php?pid=1444604&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=37397144782&aid=-1&id=782693689&oid=37397144782)

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/MichaelRamirez101408.jpg

Carter Tried To Stop Bush's Energy Disasters - 28 Years Ago
by Thom Hartmann


http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0503-22.htm

This was yesterday, when the stock market took one of it's biggest gains ever.

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Of course today it lost everything it gained plus some. (second biggest percentage loss of all time)

10/15/08 Peter Schiff on CNBC

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Once upon a time in a place overrun with monkeys, a man appeared and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest, and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and as supply started to diminish, they became harder to catch, so the villagers stopped their effort. The man then announced that he would now pay $20 for each one. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. But soon the supply diminished even further and they were ever harder to catch, so people started going back to their farms and forgot about monkey catching. The man increased his price to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so sparse that it was an effort to even see a monkey, much less catch one. The man now announced that he would buy monkeys for $50! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on his behalf. While the man was away the assistant told the villagers, "Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has bought. I will sell them to you at $35 each and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each." The villagers rounded up all their savings and bought all themonkeys. They never saw the man nor his assistant again and once again there were monkeys everywhere. Now you have a better understanding of how Wall Street works.

A few Peter Schiff interviews.

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This will [censored] you off

Wall Street banks in $70bn staff payout (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/17/executivesalaries-banking)

looks like it may be time for another alert:

Bush open to second economic stimulus (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081020/BIZ/810200408/1001/rss21)

I have seen numbers as high as 300Billion for this next package.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Where is that money going to come from?????????

They are just going to make it out of thin air. Our Dollar may go the way of the Weimar Republic's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic) Papiermark. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_papiermark)

The real way to pay for it is to go further into debt. We are currently over the 10 TRILLION dollars in debt right now. At some point, no one is going to buy government bonds. When that happens, our dollar will crash big time.

The main problem is that our Dollar is not backed by anything other than our governments word. They way it is going now, that word is not all that good.

To understand a little more about what is going on, read these articles.

A Brief History of Bretton Woods System (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1852254,00.html?xid=rss-business)

Bretton Woods System (Wiki) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system)

The rumors are that a World Central Bank with a World Currency will be pushed though in the near future. Call it expansion of the Euro.

Is this the end of America's Economic Superpower's status??

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Jim Rogers tells it like it is.

I love his answer of what Bernake and Paulson should do:D

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What's funny is that what he says about Bernanke is what I've always said about Milton Friedman. "How can anyone that has studied economics believe that?"

Pound falls to five-year low as Bank head admits recession is here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/22/pound-recession-interest-rates)

What's funny is that what he says about Bernanke is what I've always said about Milton Friedman. "How can anyone that has studied economics believe that?"



Well I guess you noticed that I follow the Austrian economics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School) model and not the proven wrong Keynesian economics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics) .

The death of the dollar? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7684397.stm)
This says it all


But for the dollar to lose reserve currency status would end what has been in many ways a huge bonus for the US.

It is sometimes described as the ability to write cheques that no-one ever cashes.

So for the American government there is simply no such thing as living beyond its means. With the rest of the world demanding dollars, all the US has to do is to keep printing them.

I love the beginning, how they try to put Peter Schiff in his place with the recent drop in gold prices.

They try to point out it is down 30% this year. Check out his answer:D

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Sorry Canada.

Loonie headed for worst monthly fall since 1950 (http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=906041)

if you remember, one year ago I was posting how the Canadian Dollar was at its highest point ever against the US Dollar.

we also law the biggest one day drop of the Euro against the Dollar last week.

this is good and bad news.

Good, because it means a stronger Dollar

Bad, because it means a weaker global economy

Good, because it means a stronger Dollar



Except for Americans travelling abroad, why is a stronger dollar good? A stronger dollar makes U.S. manufactured goods more expensive on the global market. Buyers, both foreign and domestic look to purchase goods from more competitive foreign sources and the U.S. trade deficit increases. Caterpillar cannot currently keep up with foreign demand.

Meanwhile, vs. the Chinese Yuan the dollar has remained stable for the past 4 months.

What you say is a valid point.

Yes, a strong Dollar is good for the USA, except the strong Dollar drives a lot of jobs away from the US. Mostly because it make it even cheaper to bring in products from other countries.

As you stated, the downside of this is that our products made in the USA are more expensive abroad.

But the falling Dollar is bad no matter how you look at it. However we will be able to rebound in time because it will stimulate Jobs in the USA.

Maybe that is why the Democrats want to destroy the Dollar (Republicans for that matter too) They can say they brought jobs to the USA because manufacturing jobs will be created when it is more economical to make things here.

_________________________________________________


None of this is going to matter if we go to a world currency. I only say this because it is going to happen someday.




"Give me control over a nation�s currency and I care not who makes its laws."

Baron M. A. Rothschild (1743 - 1812)





Remember that.

Read my quote below, Andrew Jackson Vetoed the Second Bank of the United States and broke it up. He saw that a Central Bank only made the Rich richer and the Poor Poorer.


* It concentrated the nation's financial strength in a single institution.
* It exposed the government to control by foreign interests.
* It served mainly to make the rich richer.
* It exercised too much control over members of Congress.
* It favored northeastern states over southern and western states.

With all due respect, your response is less an answer than a reassertion of your premise "strong is good, weak is bad". What I am interested in is why? Is it merely your connotation of the words "strong" and "weak"?

A "weak" dollar increases U.S. competitiveness in the global marketplace which in turn increases U.S. sales and creates jobs. It increases foreign tourism. And it puts negative pressure on unsustainable U.S. profligacy. These are all good things.

A "strong" dollar does the exact opposite. In addition, a "strong" dollar leads to increased foreign ownership of U.S. manufacturing, sending profits abroad. A "strong" dollar does put downward pressure on oil prices, but in my view this is a bad thing as well. Cheap oil masks the imperative of energy independence thereby restraining the necessary mobilization of U.S. science and technology towards development of viable alternative energy sources and distribution means.

I know, in your view I just "don't get it". Well, enlighten me, please. Why is a stong dollar good and a weak dollar "bad no matter how you look at it?"

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This is not that old and the national debt just past 10 TRILLION bucks

This web page is very cool. Check it out and learn something.

How This Bear Market Compares (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/10/11/business/20081011_BEAR_MARKETS.html?hp)

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/JerryHolbert102808.jpg

Wall Street Won't Surrender on Bonuses, Veterans Say (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&amp;sid=a07o5ltdIKLg&amp;refer=news)

As a new owner of some of these companies, I don't think we should give any bonuses out to companies who needed a bailout.

Of course, the government should NOT be bailing any company out.

Fed cuts key interest rate to 1% (http://www.freep.com/article/20081029/BUSINESS07/81029046/1002/rss02)

That is the 2nd cut this month. Banks should be lowering there interest rate to follow suit.

Good time to buy a house with the market being down (dropped another 19% this month) and interest being so low.

However, I do not know if we have hit bottom yet. (no one really does)

The problem with this is the fact that artificially low interest rates were part of the problem that gave us the housing bubble to begin with.

This is why government should not mess with the economy. We are destine to have another great depression if they keep it up.

Fed cuts key interest rate to 1% (http://www.freep.com/article/20081029/BUSINESS07/81029046/1002/rss02)


Good time to buy a house with the market being down (dropped another 19% this month) and interest being so low.





IF you can get the credit.

Good credit? Home loans no longer a sure thing (http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2008-10-28-home-loans-tougher-scrutiny_N.htm)

Meltdown 101: Why is there a Federal Reserve? (http://www.miamiherald.com/business/nation/story/747199.html)

A few things the article fails to point out.

the Federal Reserve is OWNED by the Banks that are members of it. It is no more Federal than Federal Express is. It is a privately held company.

As it says in the article, they set the money supply, in other words, they control how much money is in circulation. Unfortunately they no longer publish this information as they use to. (M3) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply)

Also in the last few years, the Department of Labor has changed the way it calculated Inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation) (what the Federal Reserve is suppose to try to control)



ShadowStats.com (http://www.shadowstats.com/) keeps calculating those numbers and compares them to todays numbers.

Now I really liked this article.

The Age of Prosperity Is Over (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122506830024970697.html)


Financial panics, if left alone, rarely cause much damage to the real economy, output, employment or production. Asset values fall sharply and wipe out those who borrowed and lent too much, thereby redistributing wealth from the foolish to the prudent.
..........

the government doesn't create anything; it just redistributes. Whenever the government bails someone out of trouble, they always put someone into trouble, plus of course a toll for the troll. Every $100 billion in bailout requires at least $130 billion in taxes, where the $30 billion extra is the cost of getting government involved.

BTW, these are on TOP of the loans Congress has approved.

Fed Refuses to Identify Recipients of $2 Trillion in Loans (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&amp;sid=aatlky_cH.tY&amp;refer=news)

mmm, at the end of this article, it mentions Mark Cuban, the owner of the Mavericks web site BailoutSleuth.com (http://www.bailoutsleuth.com/)

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there is a Dallas group that is going to be at the Dallas FED on the 22nd at noon.

I think I may try to make it over there.

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USA may loose it's AAA rating????

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Goldman Sachs urged bets against California bonds it helped sell (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-goldman11-2008nov11,0,1943014.story?track=rss)

So let me get this straight, first Goldman Sachs helps California sell there bonds, then turns around and tells it's investors to bet against them :confused: :confused:

Pat talks Economics

China's Path to World Power (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=29439#continueA)

Celente Predicts Revolution, Food Riots, Tax Rebellions By 2012

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Thursday, November 13, 2008




Gerald Celente


The man who predicted the 1987 stock market crash and the fall of the Soviet Union is now forecasting revolution in America, food riots and tax rebellions - all within four years, while cautioning that putting food on the table will be a more pressing concern than buying Christmas gifts by 2012.

Gerald Celente, the CEO of Trends Research Institute, is renowned for his accuracy in predicting future world and economic events, which will send a chill down your spine considering what he told Fox News this week.

Celente says that by 2012 America will become an undeveloped nation, that there will be a revolution marked by food riots, squatter rebellions, tax revolts and job marches, and that holidays will be more about obtaining food, not gifts.

�We�re going to see the end of the retail Christmas�.we�re going to see a fundamental shift take place�.putting food on the table is going to be more important that putting gifts under the Christmas tree,� said Celente, adding that the situation would be �worse than the great depression�.

�America�s going to go through a transition the likes of which no one is prepared for,� said Celente, noting that people�s refusal to acknowledge that America was even in a recession highlights how big a problem denial is in being ready for the true scale of the crisis.




Celente says that by 2012 America will become an undeveloped nation, that there will be a revolution marked by food riots, squatter rebellions, tax revolts and job marches, and that holidays will be more about obtaining food, not gifts.


Celente, who successfully predicted the 1997 Asian Currency Crisis, the subprime mortgage collapse and the massive devaluation of the U.S. dollar, told UPI in November last year that the following year would be known as �The Panic of 2008,� adding that �giants (would) tumble to their deaths,� which is exactly what we have witnessed with the collapse of Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns and others. He also said that the dollar would eventually be devalued by as much as 90 per cent.

The consequence of what we have seen unfold this year would lead to a lowering in living standards, Celente predicted a year ago, which is also being borne out by plummeting retail sales figures.

The prospect of revolution was a concept echoed by a British Ministry of Defence report last year, which predicted that within 30 years, the growing gap between the super rich and the middle class, along with an urban underclass threatening social order would mean, �The world�s middle classes might unite, using access to knowledge, resources and skills to shape transnational processes in their own class interest,� and that, �The middle classes could become a revolutionary class.�

In a separate recent interview, Celente went further on the subject of revolution in America.

�There will be a revolution in this country,� he said. �It�s not going to come yet, but it�s going to come down the line and we�re going to see a third party and this was the catalyst for it: the takeover of Washington, D. C., in broad daylight by Wall Street in this bloodless coup. And it will happen as conditions continue to worsen.�


A d v e r t i s e m e n t

�The first thing to do is organize with tax revolts. That�s going to be the big one because people can�t afford to pay more school tax, property tax, any kind of tax. You�re going to start seeing those kinds of protests start to develop.�

�It�s going to be very bleak. Very sad. And there is going to be a lot of homeless, the likes of which we have never seen before. Tent cities are already sprouting up around the country and we�re going to see many more.�

�We�re going to start seeing huge areas of vacant real estate and squatters living in them as well. It�s going to be a picture the likes of which Americans are not going to be used to. It�s going to come as a shock and with it, there�s going to be a lot of crime. And the crime is going to be a lot worse than it was before because in the last 1929 Depression, people�s minds weren�t wrecked on all these modern drugs � over-the-counter drugs, or crystal meth or whatever it might be. So, you have a huge underclass of very desperate people with their minds chemically blown beyond anybody�s comprehension.�

The George Washington blog has compiled a list of quotes attesting to Celente�s accuracy as a trend forecaster.

�When CNN wants to know about the Top Trends, we ask Gerald Celente.�
� CNN Headline News

�A network of 25 experts whose range of specialties would rival many university faculties.�
� The Economist

�Gerald Celente has a knack for getting the zeitgeist right.�
� USA Today

�There�s not a better trend forecaster than Gerald Celente. The man knows what he�s talking about.�
- CNBC

�Those who take their predictions seriously � consider the Trends Research Institute.�
� The Wall Street Journal

�Gerald Celente is always ahead of the curve on trends and uncannily on the mark � he�s one of the most accurate forecasters around.�
� The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

�Mr. Celente tracks the world�s social, economic and business trends for corporate clients.�
� The New York Times

�Mr. Celente is a very intelligent guy. We are able to learn about trends from an authority.�
� 48 Hours, CBS News

�Gerald Celente has a solid track record. He has predicted everything from the 1987 stock market crash and the demise of the Soviet Union to green marketing and corporate downsizing.�
� The Detroit News

�Gerald Celente forecast the 1987 stock market crash, �green marketing,� and the boom in gourmet coffees.�
� Chicago Tribune

�The Trends Research Institute is the Standard and Poors of Popular Culture.�
� The Los Angeles Times

�If Nostradamus were alive today, he�d have a hard time keeping up with Gerald Celente.�
� New York Post

So there you have it - hardly a nutjob conspiracy theorist blowhard now is he? The price of not heeding his warnings will be far greater than the cost of preparing for the future now. Storable food and gold are two good places to make a start.

Who will finance America's deficit? (http://atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JK13Dj01.html)

Paulson cancels key part of financial bailout (http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fi-paulson13-2008nov13,0,5499071.story?track=rss)

So Paulson told congress he had to have his bailout, and now he wants to change the plan????

We need to END THE FED, they are going to sink our country.

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/GaryVarvel111308.jpg

A Dragon named Inflation (http://www.brazilbrazil.com/inflat.html)

so should i just cash out my 401k and buy some bottled water or what?

at the end of this, the bottled water may be worth more :o:D

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/benson111208.jpg

AIG to Pay Millions To Top Workers (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/13/AR2008111304446.html?nav=rss_business)

$503,000,000 to be more exact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, why are we bailing out these companies??????

Remember, this is the same company that after they got the first 80 Billion bucks, sent some of there executives on a company retreat that cost the company $440,000 bucks.

Who are we bailing out????????

What makes this worse, is that even though this made front page news, the FED gave them another 50 BILLION bucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I read this article.

Oh, they are worried they may lost a few employees if they don't get there bonuses. Tough crap, you ran your company down the drain, you don't deserve those bonuses.

(I am royally [censored] right now) :mad:

More crap to [censored] you off

Chrysler execs get millions to stay put (http://www.freep.com/article/20081113/BUSINESS01/311130001/1014/rss13)

So the big 3 are asking for a bailout, and Chrysler is laying off thousands of workers, yet they are going to pay there executives $30 million in retention bonuses.

I say NO, no more bailing out wall street or any company (well unless you bail out me too, I can be bailed out for $30K)

Ah, some good news :D

Republicans to Detroit: Drop Dead (http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/nov2008/bw20081113_047971.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories)

I hope Obama replaces him.

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I don't agree with a lot of Dennis's views, but he is my favorite Democrat.

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wow, about time someone stepped up and did the right thing.

Goldman Sachs chief Lloyd Blankfein and deputies give up bonuses (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/3470924/Goldman-Sachs-chief-Lloyd-Blankfein-and-deputies-give-up-bonuses.html)

See, there are smart people in Oklahoma :D
Inhofe: Cancel the 'blank check' (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20081116_16_A1_hHecri880405 )

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/Ramirez111708.jpg

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/Benson111808.jpg

Dick Armey's FreedomWorks.org just sent out this email. Remember, congress may vote on this very soon. You need to tell your representatives what you think.

This will be sent to
President George W. Bush
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Your U.S. Senators
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Say NO to the Auto Makers Bailout! (http://www.capwiz.com/freedomworks/issues/alert/?alertid=12215391)

Crony Capitalism, Predatory Politicians, and the Detroit Three (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=29544)

Good article by Newt Gingrich

As GM Goes, So Goes the GOP (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=29531)

Wow, Pat does it again. Read this article, I like his solution at the end.

Modified mortgages often re-default (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/story.aspx?guid=%7BD8172601-FCE0-4F1B-A67E-1F5820FE5721%7D&amp;siteid=rss)

so 50% of the Mortgages that are redone still default????

wow

even if you oppose bailouts on principle, does it really make sense to oppose giving US auto makers some of the 700 billion pie already slated for Wall St? If we don't make cars here, that will have a huge impact on our economy. tie in any $ given with CEO pay limits until these companies become solvent and also include other conditions on the loans. giving it to Wall St but not the auto industry hurts more Americans than it helps. Not bailing out crappy business practices is one thing, but shutting down a whole segment of the US economy is at stake.

Bush Cheney sure put US in a hole while the oil companies came out like bandits...

I would be in favor of the Auto maker's bailouts if the UAW contracts were negotiated down just like the CEOs. With the UAW taking the stance of no negotiations, let GM go through chapter 11 restructuring and with new contracts on the other side. UAW doesn't want to play, drop the unions.

Gary has it right

I was just coming here to post this and saw his answer.

Too Big NOT to Fail (http://www.texasinsider.org/modules.php?name=News&amp;file=article&amp;sid=5331)

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/GaryVarvel111908.jpg

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Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Thursday, November 20, 2008

Senator James Inhofe has revealed that Henry Paulson was behind the threats of martial law and a new great depression prior to the passage of the bailout bill, having made such warnings during a conference call on September 19th, around two weeks before the legislation was eventually approved by both the Senate and Congress.

As we reported at the time, on October 2, Democratic Congressman Brad Sherman gave a stunning speech on the House floor during which he decried the fact that, �Many of us were told in private conversations that if we voted against this bill on Monday that the sky would fall, the market would drop two or three thousand points the first day, another couple of thousand the second day, and a few members were even told that there would be martial law in America if we voted no.�

A few days before, Rep. Michael Burgess also told the House, �Mr. Speaker I understand we are under Martial Law as declared by the speaker last night,� referring to a temporary suspension of the rules and procedures of Congress by its leaders so that a bill can be passed quickly.

But the origin of the most dire warnings about physical martial law in America, to which Sherman was likely referring, has now been exposed.

(ARTICLE CONTINUES BELOW)



Speaking on Tulsa Oklahoma�s 1170 KFAQ, when asked who was behind threats of martial law and civil unrest if the bailout bill failed, Senator James Inhofe named Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson as the source.

�Somebody in D.C. was feeding you guys quite a story prior to the bailout, a story that if we didn�t do this we were going to see something on the scale of the depression, there were people talking about martial law being instituted, civil unrest�.who was feeding you guys this stuff?,� asked host Pat Campbell.

�That�s Henry Paulson,� responded Inhofe, �We had a conference call early on, it was on a Friday I think � a week and half before the vote on Oct. 1. So it would have been the middle � what was it � the 19th of September, we had a conference call. In this conference call � and I guess there�s no reason for me not to repeat what he said, but he said � he painted this picture you just described. He said, �This is serious. This is the most serious thing that we faced.��

Inhofe said that Paulson told members of Congress the crisis would be �far worse than the great depression� if Congress didn�t authorize the bill to buy out toxic debt, a proposal �which he abandoned the day after he got the money,� added Inhofe.

Inhofe is referring to the controversy last week when it emerged that the bailout money was not going to buy up toxic debt but instead Paulson, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs, had pulled a bait and switch and ordered the money be injected directly into banks.

Senator Inhofe has slammed the secrecy surrounding the destination of the bailout money, saying that Hank Paulson could have given it to his friends and that the �blank check� must be cancelled now.

Inhofe is now trying to rally support for a freeze on what�s left of the initial $350 billion of bailout money with his �roll back the bailout� proposal, which will also require an affirmative vote on the part of Congress to approve Treasury�s plan for the remaining $350 billion.

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As anyone who has seen what I post, I favor ending the Federal Reserve Bank, today there was a nation wide rally on the 98th anniversary of the meeting on Jekyll Island, the meeting that would change the world, not for the better.

Here are just a few videos shot today.

New York City
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My friend John Jay's video of the Dallas rally
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These are from the Houston Rally with Ron Paul speaking.

If you watch these, you will know why we should end the FED.

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Louisville even got in the action.

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Sam made this video (he is from Plano and I have posted some of his video's before)

This is actually a good video of Alex Jones, I don't agree with everything he says, but he knows more about the Federal Reserve than 99% of the general public.

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We had around 200 people out there, many of them came because they follow Alex Jones (who drove up from Austin to attend this Rally)

I for one have a hard time with Alex Jones because he is basically a leader of the 9/11 Truth movement. I don't agree with them. I am not a Conspiracy Nut.

But with that said, Alex Jones does point out a lot of things that should not be going on in our country. His Documentaries are worth watching for that reason alone.

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After being skewered by Congress and lampooned on NBC's "Saturday Night Live," the CEOs of Detroit's three automakers may end up making their return trip to Washington by car as they seek a federal bailout.



Auto industry planning car pool to Washington (http://www.newsobserver.com/1566/story/1307604.html)

The Fed�s lending last week was 1,900 times the weekly average for the three years before the current credit crisis, according to a Bloomberg News report. In total, the government is prepared to lend more than $7.4 trillion, or half the value of everything produced in the nation last year, Bloomberg reported. A full breakdown of the $7.4 trillion is listed in a post on Clusterstock.com.



The Fed�s Secret $893 Billion Loan Portfolio (http://www.propublica.org/article/the-feds-secret-893-billion-loan-portfolio-1124/#When%3A16%3A18%3A00Z)

Wachovia execs may get $98.1 million severance (http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE4AN79T20081124?feedType=RSS&amp;feedName=busine ssNews)

This is a VERY good commentary and tells you why I feel so strongly about this subject. The Fed: Solution or problem (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/26/the-fed-solution-or-problem/)

Mortgage meltdown, wanna know how it happened?

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=355

Ira Glass annoys me.

This is another one of those things I have been hearing about, but had not seen it in a major newspaper yet.

I have posted several Peter Schiff video's on here. This is what he has been saying is going to happen for a few years now.


Citigroup says gold could rise above $2,000 next year as world unravels (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/3526645/Citigroup-says-gold-could-rise-above-2000-next-year-as-world-unravels.html)

Might happen this December. Many rumors of investors demanding delivery on COMEX contracts.

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/GaryVarvel120508.jpg

Peter Schiff puts the Mayor of Lansfield Michigan in his place

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Good compilation video I just came across.

The Federal Reserve will end this economic crisis! Right?

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More stuff to [censored] you off

Bailed out Citigroup fund spends $10 billion buying 44 foreign toll roads. (http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2613.asp)

Merrill's Thain seeking 2008 bonus of $10 million: report (http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE4B70X520081208?feedType=RSS&amp;feedName=busine ssNews)

I have posted several Peter Schiff videos, This one is a blast from the past, from 6 years ago. Watch as he predicts the future.

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alternet.org

Bank of America's Greed Sparked the Eye-Opening Worker's Strike in Chicago
By John Woodruff Jr., Portside. Posted December 9, 2008.


The bank took $25 billion of taxpayers' cash, but wouldn't lend Republic Windows and Doors the money it needed to keep going.
The following is written by a field organizer for the union involved in the sitdown strike at a Chicago factory:
It seems like forever now that we have been hearing about the importance of the Wall Street "bailout", and how that was the only way that we as taxpayers could avoid an even worse financial crisis in the U.S. The idea was that if we gave the big banks and credit markets access to about $700 billion dollars (or so), they would in turn help small businesses to keep operating and keep U.S. workers employed.
At least that's what I thought it was supposed to be about.
Tell that to the 300 United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America (UE) members that, up until this past Friday, had jobs at Republic Windows and Doors in Chicago.
Bank of America, our country's second largest bank, did indeed take $25 billion dollars of "bailout cash", then gave the shaft to that company and its workers by refusing to renew and extend it any operating credit to stay in business through the economic downturn. Just close the doors and throw the workers out onto the street without any notice in freezing temperatures right before the holidays, Bank of America said, and don't bother paying them any vacation or severance pay either. Oh, and just cancel everyone's health insurance while you're at it. Sorry about those pregnant workers, too.
Well, these UE members decided they were NOT going to be put out into the streets like animals, and they would just take over the factory until they got what they had coming to them. This is just simple fairness and self-preservation, but what is happening in Chicago needs to be talked about and actively supported by all working people in this country . Because you are next. We are all next, if we let Bank of America take our money and use it to fatten their profit margin and bottom line instead of what it was supposed to be used for: Helping regular hard working Americans like the sisters and brothers at Republic.
Ron Bender, a UE member and 14-year machine operator at Republic said it best . "We're doing this for the other working people in the country. What's happened to us can happen to anyone -- they could just close up and put you out and give you no severance pay."
***
The following story is from UE�s site: Chicago Aldermen Aim to End City's Business with Bank of America
A contingent of 15 Chicago aldermen said today they will introduce an ordinance to require the city to stop doing any business with the Bank of America.
Bank of America cut off its line of credit to Republic Windows and Doors, causing the Chicago company to halt operations on Friday, December 5 and terminate its 250 workers with only three days notice, and without receiving their earned vacation pay, as well as compensation they are entitled to under the WARN Act. The workers' situation attracted world-wide attention begining Friday evening, when they began occupying the plant, refusing to leave until Bank of America, the company and other creditors honor their obligations to employees. 'Outrageous, Unfair and Arrogant'
"It is outrageous for Bank of America to cut off credit, a company's lifeblood, after receiving $15 billion of taxpayers' money as part of the federal government's Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)," said Alderman Joe Moore (49th Ward). Bank of America also has raised $9 billion in taxpayer guaranteed loans and is expected to receive another $10 billion in TARP funds in the next two weeks.
"It's not only unfair to the workers, but also Bank of America is thumbing its nose at Congress by taking federal recovery funds while refusing to extend credit to a small manufacturing company with a long history of profitability," said Thomas Balanoff, president of SEIU Illinois Council. "Bank of America's withdrawal of credit also contradicts and undercuts President-elect Barack Obama's plan to stimulate the depressed economy by investing in weatherization of existing homes and buildings and in other infrastructure and energy-saving construction," Balanoff added. 'Greater Demand with Obama's Proposals'
"The workers want Bank of America to keep the plant open and the workers employed," said Carl Rosen, president of UE, the union that represents the Republic workers. "There is always a demand for windows and doors. But with Barack Obama's stimulus proposal, there will be even greater demand for the products made by Republic's workers. It doesn't make sense to close this plant when the need is so obvious," he added.
The ordinance requires that any City of Chicago funds deposited at Bank of America, or any of its subsidiaries, be removed and placed with another suitable bank. It also states that Bank of America shall not be selected to underwrite, sell, market or re-market any City of Chicago bonds without the explicit approval of City Council. 'We Have a Right to be Treated Fairly'
The ordinance also contains a provision requiring that any proposed change in zoning of a property owned by Bank of America, or any of its subsidiaries, be brought individually before the full City Council for evaluation and approval.
"Under the law, the City Council has the authority and responsibility to take into account the interests of Chicago and its residents when deciding which banks to do business with," said Alderman Ricardo Munoz (22nd Ward). "Bank of America profits handsomely from the business it gets from the City and other governments. We have a right to demand that workers are treated fairly."
Cook County Commissioner Michael Quigley is preparing a similar ordinance to curtail the county's business with Bank of America.

Big Rate Cut by Canada�s Central Bank (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business/worldbusiness/10canada.html?partner=rss&amp;emc=rss)

Why???

Because they need to flood there currency to keep the American Dollar from crashing.

If you remember a few months ago, I posted where the Canadian Dollar was worth more than the American Dollar.

I also found this interesting


On Tuesday, The Globe and Mail, a Toronto newspaper, reported that Chrysler was threatening to shut two assembly plants in Ontario, which employ about 8,000, if it did not receive 1.6 billion Canadian dollars ($1.26 billion) in aid.

But they're safe: Treasury bills pay zero interest for first time (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/bonds/2008-12-09-treasury-bills-zero-interest_N.htm?csp=34)

When I first saw this article, I was mad at the idea of Tesla wanting bailout money, then I read the article and realized that is NOT what they are looking for.

Tesla says sedan needs U.S. loan (http://www.freep.com/article/20081210/BUSINESS01/81210018/1014/rss13)

Tesla is a company I would invest in if I could. I have been watching them for a few years not and look forward to them making the Sedans and look forward to the day they make an economy vehicle.

A MINORITY VIEW

BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS

RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 10, 2008, AND THEREAFTER



Bailouts and Bankruptcy



Let's not allow Congress and members of the bailout parade panic us into allowing them to do things, as was done in the 1930s, that would convert a mild economic downturn into a true calamity. Right now the Big Three auto companies, and their unions, are asking Congress for a $25 billion bailout to avoid bankruptcy. Let's think about that a bit.

What happens when a company goes bankrupt? One thing that does not happen is their productive assets go poof and disappear into thin air. In other words, if GM goes bankrupt, the assembly lines, robots, buildings and other tools don't evaporate. What bankruptcy means is the title to those assets change. People who think they can manage those assets better purchase them.

Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, where the control of its business operations are subject to the oversight and jurisdiction of the court, gives companies a chance to reorganize. The court can permit complete or partial relief from the company's debts and its labor union contracts.

A large part of the problem is the Big Three's cozy relationship with the United Auto Workers union (UAW). GM has a $73 hourly wage cost including benefits and overtime. Toyota has five major assembly plants in the U.S. Its hourly wage cost plus benefits is $48. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out which company will be at a competitive disadvantage. Then there's the "jobs bank" feature of the UAW contract where workers who are laid off workers get 95 percent of their base pay and all their benefits. Right now there's a two-year limit but in the past workers could stay in the "jobs bank" forever unless they turned down two job offers within 50 miles of their factory. At one time job bank membership exceeded 7,000 "workers." GM, Ford and Chrysler face other problems that range from poor corporate management and marketing, not to mention costly government regulations.

Two vital marketplace signals are the profits that come with success and the losses that come with failure. When these two signals are not allowed to freely function, markets operate less efficiently. To be successful a business must take in enough revenue not only to cover wages, rents and interest but profits as well. In order to accomplish that feat executives must not only satisfy customers but they must do it in a manner that efficiently utilizes all of their resources. If they fail to cover costs, it means that resources are not being used efficiently and/or consumers don't value the good being produced relative to some other alternative. When a firm routinely fails to turn a profit, there are bankruptcy pressures. The firm's resources, workers, building and capital become available to someone else who might put them to better use. When government steps in with a bailout, it enables executives to continue mismanaging resources.

How much congressional involvement do we want with the Big Three auto companies? I'd say none. Congressmen and federal bureaucrats, including those at the Federal Reserve Board, don't know anymore about the automobile business than they know about the banking and financial businesses that they've turned into a mess. Just look at the idiotic focus of congressmen when the three auto company chief executives appeared before them. They questioned whether the executives should have driven to Congress rather than flown in on corporate jets. They focused on executive pay, which is a tiny fraction of costs compared to $73 hourly compensation to 250,000 autoworkers. The belief that Congress poses the major threat to our liberty and well-being is why the founders gave them limited enumerated powers. To our detriment, today's Americans have given them unlimited powers.

Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University. To find out more about Walter E. Williams and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com. (http://www.creators.com.)

Ok, so get this, Chrysler asks for a "Bridge Loan" and they will not even show there books or even tell who there board members are.

Chrysler�s Owners Keep Balance Sheets Secret (http://www.propublica.org/article/chryslers-owners-keep-balance-sheets-secret-1210)

BTW, the Auto bailout passed the house last night, now it goes tot he senate where a filibuster may be forming to block it. (hopefully)

This watered down loan is not what the Auto companies really wanted, it is actually better, (in a way) however it is the principle that I object to and the fact that this bill will create an oversight committee to watch the Auto industry, basically Nationalizing them.

And article today from an Economist from George Mason University Bankruptcy Doesn't Equal Death (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122895755096596653.html)



This myth begins with the idea that GM, Ford and Chrysler are so huge that if they go belly-up, the livelihoods of a disproportionately large number of workers and suppliers would be affected. At once, the market for their services and products would close. Therefore, the argument concludes, government must prevent any such failures.

Nonsense.

The Senate broke down on the Auto bailout tonight. Hopefully it is dead.

The Nightmare Before Christmas (http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/the_nightmare_before_christmas/)

This one is interesting

Credit crunch? What credit crunch? (http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSTRE4BA47420081211?pageNumber=1&amp;virtualBrandCha nnel=0)



ALL A MYTH?

Regarding U.S. business access to credit, the report says:

*Overall U.S. bank lending is at its highest level ever and has grown during the current financial crisies.

*U.S. commercial bank lending is at record highs and growing particularly fast since May 2007.

*Corporate bond issuance has declined but increased commercial lending has compensated for this.

I started this thread 6 months ago because the Economy should have been the biggest issue in this years Presidential race.

Economics is really the most important issue of the Presidential race.

But it will be ignored for the most part.

Obama and McCain will just keep saying they want to help you INSTEAD of talking about was really caused the problems and changing policy.

Obama will blame not enough government.

McCain will say there is no problem [still the current Bush Policy]

More government is NOT the problem, too much government is.

The answer is NOT to bail out bank, investment brokers, or even Mortgage holders. Bailing them out only makes the problem worse in the long run. People make mistakes and MUST pay for them. Call it a ''Stupid Tax'' [does anyone know who calls it this]



Anyways, take the 10 min to watch this video, read the quotes and NOTICE when they were said. A lot of what is going on right now was predicted and warned about in 2002 by Ron Paul, Peter Schiff was also warning of the impending doom. (watch the end, it ends very strongly)

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I came upon this propaganda film from 1933, well worth a watch.

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A few things about what caused the Great Depression

In 1929, two economics's wrote about what they saw in the future


Friedrich Hayek wrote in February of 1929 "the boom will collapse within the next few months




Ludwig von Mises turned down a job with Kreditanstalt Bank in early 1929, he had stated that "A great crash is coming, and I don't want my name in any way connected with it"



it was the Inflation of Keynesian Economic model that caused the recession to last 10 years. (until WWII put people to work, either in the factories are in the armed forces)

then the money bubble that caused the Great Depression caused the biggest recession sense then in the 1940's.

In fact, we are closing in a recession to rival that one, much worse and we will have the Great Depression II (actually III, the Great Depression of 1890's, it too was cause by the massive amounts of credit given out by banks. Speculation in the Railroads and other companies drove those prices higher than they should have been. And as we have seen lately, what goes up, must come down.

But then again, the market corrected itself and 4 years later things were back to normal. Unlike what happened in the 1930's with the Federal Reserve at the helm.

See, the Federal Reserve is only fixing the problems in the short term. Everything look great for a while, but we are riding a very long dollar bubble and the drop that is coming is very scary indeed.

it was the Inflation of Keynesian Economic model that caused the recession to last 10 years. (until WWII put people to work, either in the factories are in the armed forces)



Keynes' General Theory was written in the aftermath of the Great Depression, and Keynesian Economics did not come into favor 'till the '40s. Moreover, the Consumer Price Index had been falling for nearly 10 years by 1929, and was lower than it had been during the Civil War and the War of 1812. Deflation was rampant from 1930 through 1933 and prices didn't return to pre-1929 levels until the mid '40s. How exactly, then did Keynesian inflation cause or extend the Great Depression? What role did Great Britain's return to the gold standard play? What role was played by poor farming practices and severe drought?

Keynes' General Theory was written in the aftermath of the Great Depression, and Keynesian Economics did not come into favor 'till the '40s. Moreover, the Consumer Price Index had been falling for nearly 10 years by 1929, and was lower than it had been during the Civil War and the War of 1812. Deflation was rampant from 1930 through 1933 and prices didn't return to pre-1929 levels until the mid '40s. How exactly, then did Keynesian inflation cause or extend the Great Depression? What role did Great Britain's return to the gold standard play? What role was played by poor farming practices and severe drought?



Very good reply,
Inflation was used to try to get us out of the depression in the 1930's, what I propose and Austrian Economics proposes is that the government interference not only caused the Great Depression but compounded it and made it last longer.

In reality, Keynes wrote his book in 1936, but based it on the same ideas that were being used to try to combat the Great Depression. It was just not called Keynesian Economics at that time. The video I provided is Keynesian Economics.

Now it is true that the graphs look good after we were taken off the gold standard (shoot, they made it illegal to own gold) and the Federal Reserve flooded the market with cash (plus an increase in government spending)

But this theory does not take into account that pay never keeps up with inflation, so in other words, the money you make is worth less each year. You HAVE to get raises every year just to keep up.

Specially in years of Hyperinflation like the late 70's and arguably this last 2 years. (the way they calculate Inflation has changed in the last few years, it no longer takes into account what people need to buy the most)

But what happens when you raise the pay rates. Well, the companies have to make more and raise prices to pay that higher rate for there employee's. This causes more inflation.

Gold was used as money for the USA, (gold backed dollars or actual gold coins)

In 1800, the price of gold was $19.39.

In1900, the price of gold was $20.67

Now this price was set by our government.

In 1933, FDR changed this to a set price of $34.06
and then he upped it up to $35 in 1934

So if you owned gold, it was now worth $35 instead of $20.67

However if you owned Dollars, you money was now worth 14.33 instead of $20.67.

Interesting that they made it illegal to own gold isn't it.

But in an effort to keep the Dollar in demand, FDR did NOT take us off the gold standard with other countries.

This worked, sort of. At least until the 1970's when the Federal Reserve and our government spent and created too many Dollars. The other countries started to get nervous about the Dollar and started to trade them in for Gold. This resulted in a 3rd of our gold reserves taken. In an effort to stop a true gold run, Nixon took us off the gold standard for good

I was going to add this to the last post and didn't have time.

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Now what Nixon didn't say is the our dollar was falling and going to fall, that will cause our products to be cheaper in other countries and would naturally help our trade balance. This happened last summer with the fall of the dollar.

What he is failing to say here is why the took us off the gold standard. Like I said before, the FED had printed more Dollars than we had Gold. Therefor the money was worth less.

Our government and Federal Reserve nearly bankrupted our great nation.

What role did Great Britain's return to the gold standard play?



During WWI, most countries dropped the Gold Standard so they could just print money with no backing. Afterwards the countries that didn't get back on the gold standard, had chaotic fiscal and monetary policies. so by 1920, most of these countries were back on the Gold Standard.

What role did Great Britain's return to the gold standard play?


During WWI, most countries dropped the Gold Standard so they could just print money with no backing. Afterwards the countries that didn't get back on the gold standard, had chaotic fiscal and monetary policies. so by 1920, most of these countries were back on the Gold Standard.



The point is that when Great Britain returned to the gold standard in 1925 they did so at pre-WWI levels. The resultant deflationary effect was a rise in gold demand for conversion payments and therefore a lower price of goods because of the fixed rate of conversion. When prices decline so do wages. Unemployment rises. Depression ensues.

The severe drought and farming practices we now know to be unsustainable of which I spoke led to the dust bowl from 1930 through 1940 (in some areas). 100 million acres of farmland and the livelihood of 2.5 million people was literally blown away. What was the national impact of 2% of the U.S. population not only becoming unemployed, but losing 100% of the value of their homes and land? Do you think this might have had an impact on the length and severity of the Depression?

What should have been the appropriate government response to these people's plight? What would an Austrian economist's response be? Let the market decide? Since so much previously arable farmland was now useless, food becomes more scarce and prices increase, right? Good news! Except these people have zero crop to sell. So, I suppose they should move to Ohio and California and farm. Is there land to buy? If so, with what? The equity from their former property which is now worth nothing? How about the support communities around the farmers? What does the Austrian Economist say to the Oklahoma doctor who no longer gets paid because his patients have no income? Or the general store owner? Or the butcher? Or the local music teacher? According to the Bureau of Agricultural Economics over half the Dust Bowl migrants were not farmers. Nearly 1/3 were professionals or white collar workers.

From an economic standpoint, what is the appropriate government response to a national disaster? What is the appropriate goverment response to a potential looming distaster? Should the federal government play a role in regulating the Oglala Aquifer for example, or should that be left to the markets? Should a farm near the rich part of the aquifer be able to draw off water at the expense of the farm at the fringe?

Should the government even play a role in determining the extent and sustainability of a shared resource? Should the government have a role in regulating industrial emissions?

It's easy to say "Keynesian economic policies caused and sustained the Great Depression", and government has no role in markets. The reality seems to be a lot more complicated.

You seem to equate Keynesian economic policy and inflation. This is not true. While it is true that mild inflation is acceptable under Keynesian theory it is far from the driving factor of a stable economy. Who wrote the following regarding inflation? "There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."

Federal Reserve slashes interest rates to nearly zero (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/dec/16/federal-reserve-interest-rates-cut)

.25% to be exact. This is the lowest rate ever.

Retiring BB&amp;T CEO: 'We've just been misregulated' (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/business/story/412118.html)

I like some of what he said


While the year has brought many of his competitors to their knees, BB&amp;T remains profitable and has even increased its payout to shareholders. That's largely because the bank eschewed subprime loans when other firms embraced them; Allison has called them �irrational� and �esoteric� for almost a decade. The best way to fix the housing market, he says, is a finite pool of tax credits for home buyers, first-come, first-served.

Q. A lot of people say the banking industry needs more regulation, and that the current turmoil proves it.

The general idea that we've been deregulated is absurd � we've just been misregulated. We've had this tremendous focus on Sarbanes-Oxley (corporate regulations passed in the wake of the Enron and other scandals), but (the banking industry) already had a lot of that stuff.

We spent billions of dollars as an industry on the so-called Patriot Act, which is basically violating the civil liberties of American citizens in the name of catching terrorists, and I don't think we've caught any. � There's all kinds of problems with fair value accounting (relatively new policies that require banks to value their assets based on short-term rather than long-term value). . � If you applied it to other industries, the vast majority of businesses in America would be in serious financial trouble.

What role did Great Britain's return to the gold standard play?



During WWI, most countries dropped the Gold Standard so they could just print money with no backing. Afterward the countries that didn't get back on the gold standard, had chaotic fiscal and monetary policies. so by 1920, most of these countries were back on the Gold Standard.



Sorry, I didn't finish this post, I got busy.

So during the 20, Brittan went back on the gold standard of pre-WWI (a mistake) As you stated, this caused deflation. So in an attempt to curb this, England asked the US, France and Germany to inflate there currencies to help. The US did, and both France and Germany (still recovering from the Wiemar Republic hyperinflation) refused.

This <font color="red"> caused </font> the Bubble that burst in 1929, the start of the Great Depression.

So yes, Brittan moving to the Gold standard did hurt the US, but only because the FED inflated the Dollar by lowering interest rates.

By 1928 when the FED tried to raise the rates back up, it was too late.

This is one of the reasons why the FED needs to be repealed. END THE FED!!!!

I have actually had people tell me the FED is the reason we got out of the Depression, I have to inform them that the FED was created in 1913 and that they actually were one of the bigger causes of the Great Depression and one of the main reasons it stuck around so long.

Good discussion BTW, good points too.

The severe drought and farming practices we now know to be unsustainable of which I spoke led to the dust bowl from 1930 through 1940 (in some areas). 100 million acres of farmland and the livelihood of 2.5 million people was literally blown away. What was the national impact of 2% of the U.S. population not only becoming unemployed, but losing 100% of the value of their homes and land? Do you think this might have had an impact on the length and severity of the Depression?



Yes it did contribute.


What should have been the appropriate government response to these people's plight? What would an Austrian economist's response be? Let the market decide? Since so much previously arable farmland was now useless, food becomes more scarce and prices increase, right? Good news! Except these people have zero crop to sell. So, I suppose they should move to Ohio and California and farm. Is there land to buy? If so, with what? The equity from their former property which is now worth nothing? How about the support communities around the farmers? What does the Austrian Economist say to the Oklahoma doctor who no longer gets paid because his patients have no income? Or the general store owner? Or the butcher? Or the local music teacher? According to the Bureau of Agricultural Economics over half the Dust Bowl migrants were not farmers. Nearly 1/3 were professionals or white collar workers.


yes, it happens even today. I own a farm, I know all about it. We rotate crops and lime a field every year. We sold back our tobacco lease to the government so we don't grow tobacco anymore (it wears out your land) some years are better than others. We got our corn crop in right after the price dropped this year, but still had a good year. I got my check for $3000 from the farm at Thanksgiving. (used it to pay off my homes property tax)


From an economic standpoint, what is the appropriate government response to a national disaster? What is the appropriate government response to a potential looming disaster? Should the federal government play a role in regulating the Oglala Aquifer for example, or should that be left to the markets? Should a farm near the rich part of the aquifer be able to draw off water at the expense of the farm at the fringe?



some of this is relevant to this conversation, the FEDERAL government has nothing to do with most of what you just stated (or at least is not suppose to via the Constitution)



Should the government even play a role in determining the extent and sustainability of a shared resource? Should the government have a role in regulating industrial emissions?



not really, the courts should however in a perfect world. The EPA does not stop pollution, it regulates it. In other words it lets companies pollute, but caps it. The courts would hold companies and individuals responsible for any harm they cause to other people or there property. But again, this does not have anything to do with Economics and the Great Depression.




[/QUOTE]It's easy to say "Keynesian economic policies caused and sustained the Great Depression", and government has no role in markets. The reality seems to be a lot more complicated.

[/QUOTE]

It is a lot more complicated that I say, the fact is the government is involved because we have done nothing to stop them. We now have to work to deregulate.


You seem to equate Keynesian economic policy and inflation. This is not true. While it is true that mild inflation is acceptable under Keynesian theory it is far from the driving factor of a stable economy. Who wrote the following regarding inflation? "There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."






Straight off Wiki - "According to Keynesian economics the state should stimulate economic growth and improve stability in the private sector - through, for example,<font color="red"> interest rates, taxation and public projects." </font>

I think that clears that up. Keynesian Economist's believe that government should mess with the money supply, Austrian's don't.

Oh and the quote if from Keynes in 1919

�Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the Capitalist System was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become �profiteers,� who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.�



It is funny that 20 years later he write a book on economics that says governments should do exactly this.

So during the 20, Brittan went back on the gold standard of pre-WWI (a mistake) As you stated, this caused deflation. So in an attempt to curb this, England asked the US, France and Germany to inflate there currencies to help. The US did, and both France and Germany (still recovering from the Wiemar Republic hyperinflation) refused.

This <font color="red"> caused </font> the Bubble that burst in 1929, the start of the Great Depression.

So yes, Brittan moving to the Gold standard did hurt the US, but only because the FED inflated the Dollar by lowering interest rates.



??? Britain went back on the gold standard in 1925. The Federal Reserve Discount Rate remained the same from the 4th quarter of 1924 through the 4th quarter of 1925 when it went up. It stayed up until 1927 when it was dropped 1/2 point for a few months.It went back up 1/2 point in early 1928 and another 1/2 point in late 1928 (San Francisco data).

How is any of this Keynesian?

I'm not sure how you can say that government regulation of industry in regard to natural resource use and industrial waste has no economic consequence.



You seem to equate Keynesian economic policy and inflation. This is not true. While it is true that mild inflation is acceptable under Keynesian theory it is far from the driving factor of a stable economy.



Straight off Wiki - "According to Keynesian economics the state should stimulate economic growth and improve stability in the private sector - through, for example,<font color="red"> interest rates, taxation and public projects." </font>

I think that clears that up. Keynesian Economist's believe that government should mess with the money supply, Austrian's don't.



Why, because of an uncited sentence on Wikipedia? See my post to playtowin in another thread. :D

The fact is the main thrust of Keynesian theory is to use fiscal policy (government spending and taxation) to regulate the economy, not monetary policy.

??? Britain went back on the gold standard in 1925. The Federal Reserve Discount Rate remained the same from the 4th quarter of 1924 through the 4th quarter of 1925 when it went up. It stayed up until 1927 when it was dropped 1/2 point for a few months.It went back up 1/2 point in early 1928 and another 1/2 point in late 1928 (San Francisco data).

How is any of this Keynesian?



From the Book "Financial History of the United States"



Easy-Money Policy 1924 to 1928

when a slight business recession developed in 1924, the Board, in accordance with its previously declared objectives, definitly began to follow an easy-money policy. Although the Board insisted that business conditions were thte determining factor, it was chargd that the decision was made in order to discourage imports of foreign capital and thereby help Great Britain and Germany to return to the gold standard. The stock market did not influence the policy, although security speculation was already a familiar aspect of the economic scene.

the Federal Reserve Banks began their attempt to expand credit as early as December of 1923, when they began to buy government securities in the open maket. they continued to buy until November 1924, increasing there holdings from $84 million to $582 Million. In addition the New York Bank lowered its rediscounted rate from 4 to 3 cents in Jun and August of 1924. Whether it ws so intended or not, the easy-money policy did help Great Britain to restore the gold standard. Gold imports began to decline in 1924, and gold was exported thoughout 1925. Moreover, in 1925 the Federa Resrve Bank of New York established a credit of $200 million for the Bank of England.



Keep reading on page 332, interesting stuff and supports my point of easy money leading to the stock market crash that started the Great Depression (http://books.google.com/books?id=_0UqxH-5fdkC&amp;pg=PA329&amp;lpg=PA329&amp;dq=new+york+fed+rates+192 0%27s&amp;source=web&amp;ots=6ygxoleeMb&amp;sig=MzMhsA80QYxkG7 Yw0E9mxgj6dyU&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;resnum=1&amp;c t=result#PPA332,M1)

The fact is the main thrust of Keynesian theory is to use fiscal policy (government spending and taxation) to regulate the economy, not monetary policy.



The Federal Reserve is what regulates the monetary policy and they have been using the money supply to regulate the economy for 90 years.

I think I may send this conversation to an Economist I know who can set this straight.

Watch this, Peter Schiff tells it like it was and states what I am trying to say.

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yes, it happens even today. I own a farm, I know all about it. We rotate crops and lime a field every year.



I'm glad for you. The question however is not about agriculture technique but about appropriate governmental response to a major negative economic event. When an industry suffers a failure to the extent that 2% of the population are both bankrupt and displaced does the government have a role to play? What is that role? From a free market standpoint, the dust bowl diaspora is simply the result of the market's response to an unsustainable industry, and the government should not intervene in any manner. Is that your view?


(regarding the Ogallala Aquifer)
some of this is relevant to this conversation, the FEDERAL government has nothing to do with most of what you just stated (or at least is not suppose to via the Constitution)



The aquifer lies under many states. It's federal money that determine the extent of the aquifer, its recharge zones and rates, its depletion rates. The question is does the government have a role in regulating the use of a shared resource for the common good? Does the government have a role in regulating industrial discharge into a shared resource?

The relevance of these questions is that any governmental regulatory role impacts the cost of production, the price of goods, and the competitive landscape. Would you abolish all governmental regulation?

When an industry suffers a failure to the extent that 2% of the population are both bankrupt and displaced does the government have a role to play?



I would have to say no.


From a free market standpoint, the dust bowl diaspora is simply the result of the market's response to an unsustainable industry, and the government should not intervene in any manner. Is that your view?



Pretty much, these days you buy crop insurance that covers your crop if it in destroyed. (I don't know about drought, we had that 2 years ago and got 1/2 the amount of corn that we normally would have, however because everyone's crops were bad, the price was pretty good)


The aquifer lies under many states. It's federal money that determine the extent of the aquifer, its recharge zones and rates, its depletion rates. The question is does the government have a role in regulating the use of a shared resource for the common good?


Never really thought of it, the Federal Government roll would be to help the states work out a deal. That would be the Constitutional way as I see it.


Does the government have a role in regulating industrial discharge into a shared resource?


No, the State does according the the 10th Amendment of the constitution. (now if that shared resource covered more than one state then you may have a point, but I answered that in my last answer)


The relevance of these questions is that any governmental regulatory role impacts the cost of production, the price of goods, and the competitive landscape. Would you abolish all governmental regulation?



Most government regulations are suppose to help the consumer or protect the consumer. The problem lies in that a lot of regulation actually protect the companies themselves. Then a lot of regulations will help them keep there monopoly by making it too expensive for a start up company to take root.

A lot of this should be does by state laws. Yes a state can regulate the industries in there state. That is what the 10th Amendment says. If a state wants to have high pollution, then they can (however I do believe in property rights and if someone is polluting your property, you have a right to sue for damages.)

I can see where you are coming from on this being an economic issue, however to me you are stretching it.

Jim Rogers: We're going to have an inflationary nightmare

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Keynesian Kenneth Rogoff about "benefits of inflation" 2008.12.15

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read the comments on this video, left and right they are bashing him for saying inflation is a good thing.

I already posted an article about this, but this one is very interesting to read.

Fed Cuts Key Rate to a Record Low (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/17/business/economy/17fed.html?_r=1)

A few quotes that I found interesting.


The Federal Reserve entered a new era on Tuesday, lowering its benchmark interest rate virtually to zero and declaring that it would now fight the recession by pumping out vast amounts of money to businesses and consumers through an expanding array of new lending programs.

the Fed bluntly announced that it would print as much money as necessary to revive the frozen credit markets and fight what is shaping up as the nation�s worst economic downturn since World War II.

the dollar dropped sharply against the euro and other major currencies for the second consecutive day � a sign that currency markets were nervous about a flood of newly printed dollars. Some analysts predict that the Treasury will have to sell $2 trillion worth of new securities over the next year to finance its existing budget deficit, a new stimulus program and to refinance about $600 billion worth of maturing government debt.

The federal government reported on Tuesday that the Consumer Price Index fell 1.7 percent in November, the steepest monthly drop since the government began tracking prices in 1947. The decline was largely driven by the recent plunge in energy prices, but even the so-called core inflation rate, which excludes the volatile food and energy sectors, was essentially zero
<font color="red"> Notice that I have stated that before </font>

The Fed has already announced or outlined a range of unorthodox new tools that it can use to keep stimulating the economy once the federal funds rate effectively reaches zero. On Tuesday, Fed officials said they stood ready to expand them or create new ones to relieve bottlenecks in the credit markets.

All of the tools involve borrowing by the Fed, which amounts to printing money in vast new quantities, a process the Fed has already started. Since September, the Fed�s balance sheet has ballooned from about $900 billion to more than $2 trillion as it has created money and lent it out. As soon as the Fed completes its plans to buy mortgage-backed debt and consumer debt, the balance sheet will be up to about $3 trillion.

�At some point, and without knowing the timing, the Fed is going to have to destroy all that money it is creating,� said Alan Blinder, a professor of economics at Princeton and a former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve.

�Right now, the crisis is created by the huge demand by banks for hoarding cash. The Fed is providing cash, and the banks want to hoard it. When things start returning to normal, the banks will want to start lending it out. If that much money is left in the monetary base, it would be extremely inflationary.�

12.10.08 Peter Schiff and others on the bailouts
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More U.S. reaction to auto loan decision (http://www.freep.com/article/20081220/BUSINESS01/81220053/1002/rss02)

I liked this one from someone I look up to

Grover Norquist, president of the Americans for Tax Reform

"Dear President Bush: No."



And this is something the other idiots are not looking at


Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, chairman of the congressional oversight panel for the Wall Street rescue program

"Unless union contracts are renegotiated, and unless demand picks up for domestic autos, <font color="red"> $14 billion, $34 billion, $74 billion, even $104 billion will not solve the problem. </font> "




Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala.

"I am disappointed that the president has apparently yielded to the temptation of <font color="red"> substituting the whims of politicians for the wisdom of the free market. History teaches us that doing so rarely achieves the desired outcome. </font> "




Pat Toomey, president of the anti-tax Club for Growth

"The United States is quickly becoming a bailout nation ... partially nationalizing major industries, allocating capital based on politics and profoundly undermining our free-market economy. Our economy's ability to recover and grow is being further hampered with every new bailout."




Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala.

"The president chose to stick the taxpayer with the tab as he walks out the door. I believe it is a shameful attempt by the president to protect his own legacy. The taxpayer will surely remember him for it."



You can click on the link to read what the idiots said :D

The Fed's Risky Backdoor Bailouts (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_52/b4114000208822.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories)

This article touches on one of the worries I have been posting about.


The U.S. Treasury Dept. has been blasted for handing out huge sums of money to banks without clear taxpayer safeguards or ground rules for the recipients. Yet the Federal Reserve is pouring trillions into banks with little transparency. The moves have helped to shore up the wobbly financial system in the short term. But some of the deals could end up hurting taxpayers, weakening the central bank, and weighing on the economy in the future.

A friend of mine in Dallas put this together, interesting things in here you probably didn't notice in all this mess.

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This is a good short read that makes you take another look at our government.

By Peter Schiff

In Madoff We Trust (http://www.europac.net/externalframeset.asp?from=home&amp;id=14928)

My favorite quote


rather than looking to jail Madoff, President-elect Obama should consider making him our new Treasury secretary

One of the email lists I am on was talking about education and how they don't really teach our kids true history and what it means today.

Anyways, one of they guys on the list who I have never seen post, sent this today and I found it rather interesting that I am not the only one who feels this way.


&gt; I was
&gt; actually taught in school that FDR rescued the nation from
&gt; the Great Depression! Obviously, I'm not the only one.

Agreed. I made 'C's in my HS Free Enterprise and Economics classes and a 'C' in
my college Economics classes -- and was glad to get them at the time. They made
no sense to me!

However, I now own my own business and read all I can concerning Austrian vs
Keynesians economics and I now understand why I didn't get it -- they were
teaching the wrong stuff.

I now teach my own son the proper way to do business and handle money. Perhaps
he won't wait as long into his life to get a clue as I did.