you are probably right

With over HALF the Sooner roster hailing from the great state of Texas, it's no wonder o.u. is so good! Some things never change! :D

Hook-Em

Some where in Texas a village is missing their idiot.

Hey ANON SHUT YOUR *** and KEEP Hiding behind your alias.

Maybe I was wrong and he just move to Austin Texass.

Where exaclty is pot free america?

Where exaclty is pot free america?



Probably somewhere in Utah. Downtown Salt Lake City sounds about right.

They really don't like my Mercedes when I go into town out here in the great state of Mormon rights.
I Hate Weed, and all those sinners that smoke it. It�s just going to put them in hell even faster.

It sure as hell isn't in texass. The home of the worst president ever.

I Hate Weed, and all those sinners that smoke it. It�s just going to put them in hell even faster.



Ahhh a Christian that hates??? Isn't that an oxymoron? Or is it just a hypocrit?

I Hate Weed, and all those sinners that smoke it. It�s just going to put them in hell even faster.



Ahhh a Christian that hates??? Isn't that an oxymoron? Or is it just a hypocrit?


Maybe you didn't get that I'm from Utah the great state of the Mormons we hate every thing that's not clean and proper.

I Hate Weed, and all those sinners that smoke it. It�s just going to put them in hell even faster.



Ahhh a Christian that hates??? Isn't that an oxymoron? Or is it just a hypocrit?


Maybe you didn't get that I'm from Utah the great state of the Mormons we hate every thing that's not clean and proper.



Then we're all evened up as there are many pot smokers who hate Mormons. Even Stephen now :D

I Hate Weed, and all those sinners that smoke it. It�s just going to put them in hell even faster.



Ahhh a Christian that hates??? Isn't that an oxymoron? Or is it just a hypocrit?


Maybe you didn't get that I'm from Utah the great state of the Mormons we hate every thing that's not clean and proper.



but isn't it a just a little ironic :eek: that "god" created everything so how can it be a "SIN" to induldge in what "he" has put forth on this EARTH :confused: :D

Sure hope this does not MESS with your MORMON head /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Maybe you didn't get that I'm from Utah the great state of the Mormons we hate every thing that's not clean and proper.



Oh yea & by the way having more than 1 wife is not CLEAN & PROPER EITHER UNLESS you are MORMON /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :p ;)

I believe he is just an AZZHOLE

1

I Hate Weed, and all those sinners that smoke it. It�s just going to put them in hell even faster.



Ahhh a Christian that hates??? Isn't that an oxymoron? Or is it just a hypocrit?


Maybe you didn't get that I'm from Utah the great state of the Mormons we hate every thing that's not clean and proper.



but isn't it a just a little ironic :eek: that "god" created everything so how can it be a "SIN" to induldge in what "he" has put forth on this EARTH :confused: :D

Sure hope this does not MESS with your MORMON head /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



AMEN brother! what he said!!!

Indulging in many of the things god put forth on this earth can be a sin. Just because it is here to tempt us does not mean that he intended us to partake.

I believe that there called temptations and they where put one this earth to weed out the sinners from the true believers.

I though I was the only one.

I believe that there called temptations and they where put one this earth to weed out the sinners from the true believers.



If you're a male, you should be ashamed of the way you've brainwashed your women. If you're a female, I feel sorry for you and you should really read "Secret Ceremonies." Either way, I really wish you'd learn to spell!!!

Please don't use 'mormon' and 'Christian' in the same post.

They are NOT one in the same.

One uses the Bible as a reference for living, the other added to It by a 'prophet' to enable him to live as he saw fit.

I believe that there called temptations and they where put one this earth to weed out the sinners from the true believers.




Multiple Wives while it sound's :p TEMPTING :D

I'm pretty sure it has to be a SIN :eek:
So in your "Book of Mormon" is it or isn't it, "perfect" ?

Maybe you didn't get that I'm from Utah the great state of the Mormons we hate every thing that's not clean and proper.



Funny - I grew up around some mormons - and they seemed not to hate anything! I think that if you are a person of faith - regardless of which one - you should revisit the lessons they TRIED to teach you in your youth. For hate is not in the lexicon of faith as I remember. I think I'll stick with my original evaluation - hypocrit. If you truly do hate all things not "clean and proper" - me thinks you will occupy whatever hell you believe in as quickly as those you deem fit to judge. For hate is certainly not clean or proper, which makes you a sinner too. :eek:

Maybe you didn't get that I'm from Utah the great state of the Mormons we hate every thing that's not clean and proper.



Funny - I grew up around some mormons - and they seemed not to hate anything! I think that if you are a person of faith - regardless of which one - you should revisit the lessons they TRIED to teach you in your youth. For hate is not in the lexicon of faith as I remember. I think I'll stick with my original evaluation - hypocrit. If you truly do hate all things not "clean and proper" - me thinks you will occupy whatever hell you believe in as quickly as those you deem fit to judge. For hate is certainly not clean or proper, which makes you a sinner too. :eek:



I'll save a place in the Hell line for PERFECT NORTH, right in front of me. Obviously IT has no balls either or IT would post using ITS name, if IT even has one.

As many can attest, I love bantering religion as much as anyone does. However, to my count, religion is now the major topic on four differenet threads including the religion thread. Can we get back to bashing Todd now? :D

One uses the Bible as a reference for living, the other added to It by a 'prophet' to enable him to live as he saw fit.


I'm pretty sure all the books of the Bible prior to the book of mormon were written by people with equally preposterous claims as Joseph Smith.

It's kind of funny that a seeming bible-thumper would use this type of logic to try and discredit an addedum to the good book. Must be similar to how the Jewish dudes feel about you new testament weirdos. :o

One uses the Bible as a reference for living, the other added to It by a 'prophet' to enable him to live as he saw fit.


I'm pretty sure all the books of the Bible prior to the book of mormon were written by people with equally preposterous claims as Joseph Smith.



It's kind of funny that a seeming bible-thumper would use this type of logic to try and discredit an addedum to the good book. Must be similar to how the Jewish dudes feel about you new testament weirdos. :o




:eek: That is very well said Rhett :D


In the end it is all according to the "MAN"(person) that wrote the word's on the paper.

Major thread drift here . . .

The info from Bruce and Terry didn't provide was I was expecting. The logic that I was expecting from the appeal process, ie. first decide if the infraction was true or not true (BOD must have found true) didn't lead to the second as a black-white decision of whether the penalty then stands or is waived, but was turned into a gray decision that modified the penalty based most likely on emotional information presented to the BOD. IMO after they found the facts to be true unless there were significant circumstances to do so, they should have just ratified the penalty; instead they modified it and left the DC and the Commissioner in a compromised and weakened position.

Just my personal view

Nez
No longer a BOD member . . .

I totally agree. If the BOD feels the penalty is inappropriate, they should communicate that to the DC and commish (or whoever makes the first decision). They would then avoid the impression that that the right and left hand don't work together. Worse than that, they would avoid the impression that they play favorites.

In all honesty, I am confused as to how they will deal with a similar matter in the future. Isn't that one of the most important elements of the disciplinary process: to clearly set boundaries. As GW says, "they are sending mixed signals." :D

Nothing wrong with mixed signals, keeps people guessing. :D
It's not black, not white, but gray, seems like an excellent gray decision to me.

The Jews in general reject the New Testament because they feel that the messiah prophesied in the Old Testament was not Jesus of Nazareth not because of the "weirdos" that wrote it.
Secondly the historical reliability of the manuscripts making up the Bible are second to none yet receive no credibility. For instance, here is a chart that demonstrates the historical reliability of other manuscripts that are never questioned versus the manuscripts of the Bible;

Author Written Earliest Copy Span # of Copies
Plato 400B.C. A.D. 900 1300 yrs 7
Caesar 100B.C A.D. 900 1000 yrs 10
Aristotle 300B.C A.D. 1100 1400yrs 5
Tacitus A.D. 100 A.D. 1100 1000yrs 20
Herodotus 400B.C A.D. 900 1300 yrs 8
Thucydides 400B.C A.D. 900 1300yrs 8
Livy A.D. 30 A.D. 900 870yrs 20
N.T. A.D 100 A.D. 200 100yrs 5300

The Bible is historically reliable as far as a manuscript goes. I believe that it is more than this but if that is not your belief then please find other gounds to dismiss it on as this one doesn't work.

Most of the Bible was written by people who were witness to something or writing letters to friends/churches. What are their preposterous claims?
To call the Book of Mormon an addendum to the Bible is to vastly mis-undertand the nature of both of them and shows as proof that you have read/researched neither.
I realize that this will probably fan the flame of the thread-drift but I guess all of us respond when we feel strongly about something.
I intend in no way for this to be an insult of any kind. I don't know if it will be taken that way, I just want to add my disclaimer. I would like to rationally discuss these things.
(Sorry the chart is a little off line. I can get it on line while i am typing but it always shows up crooked on the preview.)

Would the old testament god be sending mixed signals? I think not. :D

Thread drift alert:

[flashing red light on]Please refer your response to the religious thread for further response:[flashing red light off]


Please tell me why any document that is 2000 years old is credible? Whether it is the Bible, or a wrting by any Greek scholar, it is what it is, myth, and opion. The factuality of events that "occurred" is suspect period. There is little direct colaborating evidence whatsoever. Some things we know might have occurred due to the geological record but the context can simply not be know. I wonder if you are giving credibility to the Bible simply because, well, it's the Bible.

Do you believe that a guy named Plato existed? Do you believe that there was a guy named Alexander the Great? Do you believe that Rome burned under that watch of Nero? If you want to dismiss the Bible on the grounds that there is no geological support, which there is but that is another topic, then you must also dismiss most of recorded history. With this level of skeptcism you must also dismiss just about everything that you don't witness personally.

uuummmm because if it was written that long ago it has to be TRUE no one ever "lied,embelished,missaw,mistook or misunderstood" anything they either saw or heard from back in the day so it has to be all TRUE. ;)

:D:cool:

back to the thread at hand

The world is flat and beyond the edges are monsters.

I'm not saying that everything that was ever reported in the history of the world was reported accurately. I'm saying that it is ludicrous to dismiss the historical record simply because it happened "so long ago". This is the generation we live in though, radical skepticism of anything not received first hand.

I'm not saying that everything that was ever reported in the history of the world was reported accurately. I'm saying that it is ludicrous to dismiss the historical record simply because it happened "so long ago". This is the generation we live in though, radical skepticism of anything not received first hand.



Going with this logic would it not be "SILLY ludicrous" to belive everything written as FACT and base your LIFE on it.


Oh by the way i'm not from this generation ;)

Please re-read the first sentence of my post, I did not say I believe everything ever written to be fact. And I did not say you were from this generation. I said that this is the generation we live in. Why would any logic work with you as you aren't understanding even the simplest statements. Please read more carefully.

Is Cam Todd mentioned in one of those _____ begat ______ lines? :D

I dismiss the historical record for several reasons. The Bible is originated from stories, told by generation to generation for many many years before these stories were ever collected and put on paper. Once this was done, there were several translations and modifications before the King James version was written, and accepted as the real deal. Unfortunately the Bible is meant to be a source of reference to give guidance and a set of morals- not to be literally dissected and followed as a doctrine of establishing religious beliefs- or following it to get into Heaven...Simply guidelines to let your own mind establish a relationship with God, and a foundation for your consciousness.

Just my 2�

Dear Moderator, please remove all these religious ramblings off of this thread. :o

this is like a self-righting thread. no matter how many times i try to take it off topic with tax issues or someone else wanders into the vast minefield of religion it always seems to get back to CT's suspension.

it reminds me of those old boston whaler fishing boat ads where the boat was cut in half yet both halves managed to stay afloat.

if cam were to buy a boston whaler with tournament earnings and it was cut in half, would he have to pay tax on both halves? would mormons or jews permit the use of alcohol to christen the ship?

What are the facts to support these statements? Scholarship puts the writing of the book of Acts at 63 A.D. Paul, the writer, was reporting events that occured between approximately 35-63 A.D. This seems like a relatively short amount of time after the fact. The earliest copy of scripture is dated about 100 years after the end of the Biblical story. That doesn't sound like "generation to generation for many many years".

And to imply that the translators modified the text is to drastically misunderstand the weight of importance these scribes put on their task. The Septuagint, the greek translation of the hebrew Old Testament, gets its name from the latin word for 70. Signifying the 70 scribes that worked on the translation. These men would designate the center letter of each page. As they completed each page they would count letters forwards and backwards. If they all didn't agree that the copy was exactly the same as the original they would throw it out and start over.

And for someone who doesn't believe what is written in the Bible how can you say what it was written for and not for?

Dear Moderator, please remove all these religious ramblings off of this thread. :o



i disagree, on the grounds that while the thread view total for this thread has now surpassed all others in this particular forum, the actual number of replies has a ways to go to catch up to the two leaders.

seems to me like an influx of religious zealotry and atheistical arguments is just what this thread needs to put it over the top on all accounts.

I am at work right now, and I do not have any references in front of me to verify what I posted, I will have to get back to you on that.

I apologize for not being more clear- I did not intend for you to interpret that ALL of the stories in the Bible were passed on from generation to generation, but a vast majority of them.

And who am I to claim to know? Just a human. Same as all those who are in the Bible, those who told the stories, those who wrote, re-wrote, and translated the stories. Like I said, this is all just my 2�

What really frustrates me is that Churches are given tax-exempt status, and for what reason? Why is it the governments job to say that these organizations are for the betterment of human kind? What about people like me, who disagree that a formal meeting to discuss a make believe (no proof!) deity created everything we know should be given tax breaks? It is just absurd. Why associate religion with government?

This is the generation we live in though, radical skepticism of anything not received first hand.



This the line to which i refer the generational comment.



As for the rest of this it is
As there is no chance for you to see it my way and no way for me to see it your way. I will withdraw from this Disc.ussion any further and go throw plastic....... :D

:cool: :D

a message from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints:

please take a knee while i read from the book of Mor(m)on -
"we as a body - P laying D isc in a G odless A merica - must show repentence for even questioning the decisions of our fearless leaders. They are merely acknowledging their subservience to the higher power; which, if you do not realize, shall rain down hellfire and (apparently) spew forth profanity in oder to prove His infallible might. Now please, let us bow our heads and give thanks and praises to our holy father Godd, Cameron Godd."

Maybe you didn't get that I'm from Utah the great state of the Mormons we hate every thing that's not clean and proper.

you're not a mormon and you dont live in utah.

Maybe you didn't get that I'm from Utah the great state of the Mormons we hate every thing that's not clean and proper.

you�re not a Mormon and you don�t live in Utah.


You�re Right I'm not really from Utah nor am I a Mormon or a follower of any set religion. Nor did I plain to offend ether the State of Utah or the Mormon religion that has spread within it. I have Family in Utah and yes they are Mormons and yes they live by a deferent set of standard than must people (NO alcohol, caffeine or and other type of stimulant) they live a pretty good life, and should not be slander because they believe in thing that are not in the norm. As, for the more than one wife thing they no longer preach or believe in it. Just like the Catholic�s believed the world was flat or the Earth was the center of the Universe.

Where exaclty is pot free america?



Probably somewhere in Utah. Downtown Salt Lake City sounds about right.



Here's where Utah came into play.

This thread is hillarious. Just my 2 cents, Salty has a fun course, Creekside and also has some of the best nug on earth, yes right in Salt Lake city. Also if anyone is looking for good reading check out John Krakaeur's new book Under a Banner of Heaven...Good insight into Mormonism.

So, is Cam Todd a mormon and does he believe that the Bible is factual? Are his references to God in his apologies simply pandering or are they heartfelt? Enquiring minds want to know...

Do you believe that a guy named Plato existed? Do you believe that there was a guy named Alexander the Great? Do you believe that Rome burned under that watch of Nero? If you want to dismiss the Bible on the grounds that there is no geological support, which there is but that is another topic, then you must also dismiss most of recorded history. With this level of skeptcism you must also dismiss just about everything that you don't witness personally.



In point of fact while I believe in those individuals, I I do question all of the greek writings and all the accomplishments credited to them. Was Alexander truley a God? Some thought so. That doesn't make them fake or not based on some level in truth. I believed my teachers when they said a theory is just that, theory. It never becomes fact. You can have copious amounts of data supporting that theory until it becomes certainty, but all that data is only as good as the one peice of data that disproves the theory. We are seeing this today in physics. Some very strong theories have been overturned and questioned in recent years with new data. The same goes for the Bible and all those old dead Greeks.

The real value of the documents put together by the prophets and the greeks are the moral and life lessons. Those things have value. Even God has value if he adds to your life. But to think of the stories as fact misses the point. The stories and philosophy are there as guides to our lives, our thinking.

WAIT WAIT, I'm getting back to Todd, honest.

Now, if Cam had read both the Bible and the Greek philosophers, he might have learned that public composure is important, both in a religious sense and in a good citizen sense. In that case this entire thread would have never occurred and we would be in a different reality... Scotty, beam me up.

PDGA good, Cam Todd, bad!

Zug zug, Lana!

Lana...G(.)(.)D!!! :D

I know this is completely off topic, but after reading all of this garbage I'm not really sure what the topic of this thread is. I just finished reading all of this thread and noticed a post earlier in regards to joining the PDGA. I was planning on joining the PDGA at the beginning of next year for the 2005 season, but an earlier post said you could join now and be good for the rest of 2004 and all of 2005. I looked everywhere under "Membership" and couldn't find anything in regards to this. I must admit though after reading this thread it almost makes me want to change my mind about joining the PDGA. I have only played in about 5 PDGA sanctioned events and the only problem I have ever had is the conduct of some of the top players. Reading all of this thread only confirms that this is an issue that is something that many others have experienced as well. With this being said, could someone please confirm that I can join the PDGA now and be eligible for all of 2005. Also, do I just need to fill out the online form for 2004?

Thanks

I know this is completely off topic, but after reading all of this garbage I'm not really sure what the topic of this thread is. I just finished reading all of this thread and noticed a post earlier in regards to joining the PDGA. I was planning on joining the PDGA at the beginning of next year for the 2005 season, but an earlier post said you could join now and be good for the rest of 2004 and all of 2005. I looked everywhere under "Membership" and couldn't find anything in regards to this. I must admit though after reading this thread it almost makes me want to change my mind about joining the PDGA. I have only played in about 5 PDGA sanctioned events and the only problem I have ever had is the conduct of some of the top players. Reading all of this thread only confirms that this is an issue that is something that many others have experienced as well. With this being said, could someone please confirm that I can join the PDGA now and be eligible for all of 2005. Also, do I just need to fill out the online form for 2004?

Thanks



Please don't let one bad movie make you never go to movies again! Honestly, the majority of the people you meet out golfing will become your lifetime friends. We truly are frisbee family in that deep down we really do care about each other. But like brothers and sisters, we do also tend to argue and bicker and fight. Also keep in mind that all the posters are not pdga members. Some are just here to push our buttons and don't really care about the game at all.

Welcome to the family! :D I wish I knew for sure the answer to your question but I do not so I'll ask someone else to help you out.

The answer is yes. New members and re-newals that have not been current for at least 2 years get to renew for the completion of the current year and all of the following year after sometime in September. I can't find the date in any document either, but I am sure that we are past the date.

Thanks for the replies. I must admit that the large majority of the people I have met on the courses are really great people. I realize that there are always a few bad apples no matter what the sport or group is and that certainly won't change my decision to join the PDGA. From most of what I have read on these message boards I think the directors of the PDGA do a great job and don't get nearly enough credit or respect that is due to them. I can't remember for sure off hand, but I think I saw it posted earlier that the date I could sign up for the PDGA and be good for 2005 was 09/01/04. I still have been unable to find anything in regards to this. All I really need to know now is if I should just do the online registration for 2004. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again

If you do it now, you will beat any price increases that may come along in 2005. I don't expect any after last year, but you can never be too careful.

Chris heeren, if you read this go to the chat room,

Magic,
If you sign up now you will be current through 12/31/05. Call us at 1-888-840-PDGA and I can explain the process over the phone to you.

Ok, I stand corrected. Kevin is correct.

I got to play a round with Cam in 1999. It was one of the worst displays of a top disc golfer I have ever played with. He was not getting any breaks at the start of the round and really started throwing a fit. If I remember correctly, he won the tournament and then went on to win Worlds that year.

I Then saw him at another tournament cheat during a skins match. (he and another guy he was on tour with were splitting there winnings) He purposly missed a 5 foot putt.

This is why I do not like skins matches and will never run one.

This is why I do not like skins matches and will never run one.



Cam isn't the only one.

That is commonplace in skins matches. It takes what should be one of the funnest formats for spectators and turns it into garbage. We used to do skins after the last round of the SoCal Championships, but dropped it because of that crap.

I got to play a round with Cam in 1999. It was one of the worst displays of a top disc golfer I have ever played with. He was not getting any breaks at the start of the round and really started throwing a fit. If I remember correctly, he won the tournament and then went on to win Worlds that year



Cam won in 2001 in Minn. Ron won in NY in 99.

This is why I do not like skins matches and will never run one.



Cam isn't the only one.

That is commonplace in skins matches. It takes what should be one of the funnest formats for spectators and turns it into garbage. We used to do skins after the last round of the SoCal Championships, but dropped it because of that crap.



Can someone spell out the scenario where it is advantageous to purposely miss a 5 foot putt? I'm having trouble picturing that.

Yeah Jeff - when people agree on the side to split the cash from accumulated skins - they take the chance for someone else to win them away. So if someone were to miss a 5 foot putt to avoid a push on 8 skins - having their cohort "win" them and subsequently benefit from the split......

Can someone spell out the scenario where it is advantageous to purposely miss a 5 foot putt? I'm having trouble picturing that.




4 people in skins....2 people are going to take 9's on a hole that only leaves 2 people left. The skins are up in the air for 2 people. If those two people are considering spliting their skins winnings then one person has to tank it. If the first person accidentally makes an 80 footer, the other person must miss, so they can split the money.
That's why he missed the 5 footer, so he could split the money.

lets see sounds like TEXAS states a few years back. Where I believe Worm and Cam had a chance to push the skin so Cam missed the putt so the skin did not get pushed and Worm won it. I am sure they split later after it was over. BUNCH OF CRAP. I still can't wait to see how the PDGA Handles when an average Joe player gets in trouble and they don't let him apologize or donate winnings. What a horrible precident the PDGA is setting.

The more I read about this guy, the less I like him.

As far as skins goes, it most definitely is not just him!

I stand corrected.

Yes, the 5 ft putt was one of the two guys. It gave the skins to there tour partner, they were going to split all winnings anyways.

Cam Todd reminds me of ex Oakland and Denver linebacker Bill Romanowski....just can't stay out of trouble!

To be fair, that was a GREAT putt Worm hit :D

Cam did fake it very well, but there was no way anyone would believe he would miss that one... That is why that money should be in the purse if you are going to pull touring players to your events. Put yourself in their shoes - - Eat? Gas? Next entry fee?

The more I read about this guy, the less I like him.



Don't forget you are on a message board. While I do not always agree with Cam and his actions, I must admit that once in awhile what he does (for good not "evil") would blow most people away.

Cam, Lesli and other top pros dedicate thier time (http://www.charlottedgc.com/rennykids_oct02a.htm)

The above link is from a volunteer effort put together to teach young children about the game where Cam was one of the most enthusiastic.

He does have a good side. Sometimes it's kinda hard to remember that in the middle of a lynching.

And anyone who thinks he's going to the USDGC and tank because he has nothing to gain obviously doesn't know what it takes to become a World Champion regardless of the sport they play.

Quit focusing on this and that and realize that whatever has happened is done. Can't change it. What you could focus on is the fact that he's gonna play the USDGC, he's gonna play well and <font color="red"> there are alot of people who will benefit from the money donated.</font>

Anyone care to comment on how many good things are needed to offset the bad things? Because I think thats the jist of your comments rickb. IMO, certain responsibilities come with being a human. Treat others like you expect to be treated. People in this sport speak of karma. If it exists, tell me how Cam's continued 'pot stirring' will benefit the players, the PDGA, and the countless others he comes in contact with, when the bad karma begins to balance out in his life?

Anyone care to comment on how many good things are needed to offset the bad things?

I'd be happy to. Check your PDGA mail.

Anyone care to comment on how many good things are needed to offset the bad things? Because I think thats the jist of your comments rickb. IMO, certain responsibilities come with being a human. Treat others like you expect to be treated. People in this sport speak of karma. If it exists, tell me how Cam's continued 'pot stirring' will benefit the players, the PDGA, and the countless others he comes in contact with, when the bad karma begins to balance out in his life?



I'll take a crack at it. Disclaimer: It may sound like I am a Cam Todd apologist, but I am not. I have only played 1 round with him ever and spoken with him outside of that round less than 5 minutes total. I can't claim I know him worth a lick.

How many good deeds right a wrong deed? Can good deeds cancel out the pain etc of bad and damage caused by deeds? I don't know. But I want to try to put my take on some perspective on this whole thing.

In the grand scheme of things, any DGer's indiscretions during play are not really that big a deal. I imagine that most of the time, the negative interaction lasts less than 5 minutes and maybe 4-5 people are hurt. And, another handful of us dOrcs who inhabit this space get infected by the negativity bug due to the toxic nature of gossip and speculation. And maybe you loose say a $1000 sponsor. In the grand scheme of things all of this is really not that much.

Go out to the course and ask random players you see how they feel about Cam. I'll bet 75%+ have never heard of him and less than 1% will say they dislike him.

You ask, "tell me how Cam's continued 'pot stirring' will benefit the players, the PDGA, and the countless others he comes in contact with". I'll answer by saying, how have Charles Barkley (NBA), Warren Sapp (NFL), Tony Stewart (NASCAR) benefited their sports? Sure they have detractors and haters (as well as fans), but they add color and controversy that keeps things interesting.

Another perspective on the initial question. Like Rick pointed out, the impact of interacting with youth makes a bigger positive impact in the grand scheme of things then the negative impact on a handful of grown adults.

A young Zach Morgan played in his first tournament - a night time Ice Bowl event. He was grouped with a world champion and top 5 player in the world nontheless! How's that for a DG memory? We was busting with pride when he got home his father tells me. This one lifetime memory in my estimation is a much bigger positive influence than the negative recent event in the grand scheme of things (does it cancel? probably not. just some perspective...) Zach was even prouder when he received this picture.

http://home.earthlink.net/~cya.discgolf/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cys1.jpg

Go out to the course and ask random players you see how they feel about Cam. I'll bet 75%+ have never heard of him and less than 1% will say they dislike him.



Instead of random players, why don't you ask the touring pros and TDs/volunteers of events he's attended. Your 1% will be missing a couple of zeros to be accurate.

You really think it's ok to 'loose' a $1000 sponsor at this stage in the sport's development?

For a guy who doesn't want to sound like an apologist you aren't doing a very good job.

[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]

In the grand scheme of things, any DGer's indiscretions during play are not really that big a deal. I imagine that most of the time, the negative interaction lasts less than 5 minutes and maybe 4-5 people are hurt. And, another handful of us dOrcs who inhabit this space get infected by the negativity bug due to the toxic nature of gossip and speculation. And maybe you loose say a $1000 sponsor. In the grand scheme of things all of this is really not that much.

[QUOTE]


Please don't run any tournaments if these are your ideals.

I've been reading this thread since it's inception. Funny how almost everyone who defends Cam comes from the Carolinas. Just seems kind of weird that these people see him in a better light than most.

Talking with the BHMO TD last weekend I got the impression that this will not stop him from running or helping to run tournaments. I was really happy to hear that this incident did not discourage him. He has also stayed clear of the message board, and kept his views private. I know I could not have exibited this self control in his shoes.

I agree with Adam's post. A $1000 sponsor at one of our premier events does mean a lot. Especially at the young stage our sport is in.

cam apologizes.
nez resigns.
PDGA hires someone to do guru's job.
leukemia society gets a check.
southwick's back on the NT.

HAVE I DIED AND GONE TO HEAVEN? please, someone get me a tissue.

i am so completely happy, seeing things i never thought would happen come to fruition. my work here is done :D

Funny how almost everyone who defends Cam comes from the Carolinas. Just seems kind of weird that these people see him in a better light than most.



I've met Cam and Leslie several times while they were on tour at a few tournaments in So Cali. I liked them both but have only played golf with Leslie, obviously. She rocks! As far as number of times I've seen Cam "lose it" would be a whopping total of zero. I've seen other players have a melt down though. Everyone, at one time or another, will implode at some point. But luckily it doesn't warrant a thread! ;)

But since we're talking about the BHMO, last night I added some photos of Brent and friends, dating back to 1993-1995. Brent's last Master's Cup at De La and the Worlds with Scott Stokely in 1993 were some very fun times!! I sure miss him dearly. He would've loved joining in on this thread! He never missed an opportunity to let his thoughts be known, that's for sure! (The link is called "Brent Hambrick")

�nez resigns.� A dedicated volunteer resigns for personal reasons and you are happy � gezzz Mikey take a deep breath.

I see mikey that the PDGA has hired some new staff - I don't see that Guru has been replaced.

If you are portending to have future political aspirations - I think you should change your temperament. Because your last post was just plain rude, nasty, and uncalled for. And the fact that it gives you so much "pleasure" does'nt jive with generating advocates for your (ahem) candidacy. But then again - you don't appear cut out for political action anyway. By the way - did you receive the answer you were looking for regarding the 05 sanctioning agreement? The PDGA office was good enough to post the status a mere 3 days after I emailed and asked them about it.

Funny how almost everyone who defends Cam comes from the Carolinas. Just seems kind of weird that these people see him in a better light than most.




Has nothing to do with where I live. If you read my post then you will notice that I wasn't jumping on a support Cam bandwagon.
I've been on both sides with Cam. I've been the brunt of frustration and I've been one that could sit and just chat with him for hours. Most people on here have probally never met the guy but would rather form an opinion of him by what is posted. Those that do know him and tour with him have earned the right to criticize. The rest just follow a lead.

Is Cam the most liked in the sport? Probally not. But once you get him off the course he's not a bad guy. I wish he could carry that over to the course all the time.

The point I was trying to make was that right or wrong, there is someone who can come out of this a winner. The Lukemia society. Love him or hate him, wish him the best of luck at the USDGC so that someone may benefit from all of this.

Maybe he is feeling the pressure to do really well on the course and is getting frustrated when he isn't playing at the level that he can. Maybe he just hit that snapping point at the tourny.

We are probably all like this in one way or another. I know when I am feeling the pressure/frustration when I am teaching, I am more apt to make bad judgements and more likely to snap at someone that doesn't deserve it. I always apologize though when I realize at what I did though.

Does it make me a bad person? I hope not.

Cam plays disc golf for a living. I am sure you would be feeling the pressure too to play well if it was the only way you could support yourself.

I have never met Cam nor am I defending his actions. I am just trying ot give a possible explanation of what could have happened.

Cam plays disc golf for a living. I am sure you would be feeling the pressure too to play well if it was the only way you could support yourself.




That is the way Cam chooses to support himself. and if throwing fits when things don't go your way is what happens when someone plays for a living, why don't all the other touring pros do it?

if throwing fits when things don't go your way is what happens when someone plays for a living, why don't all the other touring pros do it?

How do you know that all other touring pros haven't thrown fits on occasion?

Other touring pros dont do it enough to have running threads about thier behavior,that I am pretty sure of.Im not a touring pro , so I dont know for sure.I know all I do is play disc golf and when I play bad I take it out on myself and a 12 pack,not the other players and the TD.Oh yeah, or the gallery.

Cam plays disc golf for a living. I am sure you would be feeling the pressure too to play well if it was the only way you could support yourself.




That is the way Cam chooses to support himself. and if throwing fits when things don't go your way is what happens when someone plays for a living, why don't all the other touring pros do it?



With regards to the touring pros, temper tantrums and the throwing of fits are well documented To wit, The Winnicrew was known as "The Whiny-crew." Also, Mike Young was photographed kicking his bag all over the course at The Memorial, which was on display at the DiscLife website.

This behavior is stereotypical of not all, but many touring pros; Cam is just the most notorious.

Other touring pros dont do it enough to have running threads about thier behavior,that I am pretty sure of.

Granted, (though perhaps some should, but that's another thread for another day); the fact remains, however, that, contrary to what is implied in Luke's post, all other touring pros have occasionally melted down.

Earlier this year, I witnessed a touring pro widely recognized for his good sportsmanship and acknowledged to be one of the true gentlemen in the sport, both on and off the course, lose it when another player on his card asked him to stop swearing, kicking his bag, and whining under his breath after every bad shot, of which there were many. (Never mind that a group of spectators, including the parents of two of the players in the group, was following the group.) The touring pro got in the other player's face and "invited" him, quite loudly, to meet him in the parking lot after the round to "deal with it." Anomalous behaviour? Based on said player's reputation, probably. Excusable? Definitely not. Certainly, the touring pro's actions provided ample grounds for issuing a disqualification. (Funny thing, though: the TD and two non-playing officials were standing right there watching it all but later professed ignorance of the incident.) But would anyone who hadn't witnessed it have believed it if someone reported it to the Discipline Committee or on the msg board? Based on everything else I have witnessed and heard about the player in question, I certainly wouldn't have, and I doubt that most msg board regulars would, either.

I bring this up, not to excuse in any way or to lessen the gravity of Cam's behavior, but simply to point out that, as a group, we are willing to condemn the actions of some and overlook the actions of others, based primarily, of not solely, on whether what we have heard about those individuals disposes us to think of them as "good" or "bad" guys.

I bring this up, not to excuse in any way or to lessen the gravity of Cam's behavior, but simply to point out that, as a group, we are willing to condemn the actions of some and overlook the actions of others, based primarily, of not solely, on whether what we have heard about those individuals disposes us to think of them as "good" or "bad" guys.



You have to start disciplining somewhere, and why not with the one who's most notorious for throwing tantrums? It certainly gets people's attention, and it may reduce future tantrums thrown by other pros, as well, including the unnamed one in your example. I think the top pros have been put on notice -- as well as the rest of us.

You have to start disciplining somewhere

SAD part of this is when will the DISCIPLINE START it sure wasn't with the outcome of his punishment or LACK THERE OF.

Felix, did the incident you are referring to happen at Zebulon?

If so, you got the facts a little distorted. I was in that group, and the gentleman you speak of was not the one that "invited" the post-round confrontation. The "gentleman" handled himself in a very professional manner, while the guy that asked him to stop swearing became VERY loud and threatening.

If you were just using this as a hypothetical point-proving story, sorry. Just wanted you to know what really went down.

The "gentleman" handled himself in a very professional manner, while the guy that asked him to stop swearing became VERY loud and threatening.


The "gentleman" had to be asked to "stop swearing?"

I don't get this.

Also sounds like you're saying the "gentleman" who "handled himself in a very professional manner" rebuffed this request, and that's why the man asking him became "loud and threatening".

I don't get this either.

Are you saying the "gentleman" was in the right here? Or that both were eventually in the wrong?

And can I please stop putting "gentleman" in quotes?

Felix, did the incident you are referring to happen at Zebulon?

No, Steve, I wasn't referring to the incident at Zebulon. I heard about that one in between rounds, but did not witness it. I DID witness the incident I referred to in my earlier post.

While I am on friendly terms with both principals in the Zebulon event, and both do travel regularly to tournaments outside the immediate area, I would not consider either a touring pro, nor, to my knowledge, is either widely recognized for good sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct both on and off the course.

You have to start disciplining somewhere, and why not with the one who's most notorious for throwing tantrums? It certainly gets people's attention, and it may reduce future tantrums thrown by other pros, as well, including the unnamed one in your example. I think the top pros have been put on notice -- as well as the rest of us.

Sorry, but I disagree. If the goal is to put folks on notice that tantrums are not acceptable and will not be tolerated, then the Discipline Committee and/or the BOD should come down hard on a recognized "good guy" when s/he throws a tantrum, rather than waiting until a "bad boy" steps out of line because, like it or not, people will attribute the severity of the discipline handed out to a "bad boy" to the fact that the player is notorious for throwing tantrums rather than to the seriousness of the specific incident that occasioned the discipline.

Sorry, but I disagree. If the goal is to put folks on notice that tantrums are not acceptable and will not be tolerated, then the Discipline Committee and/or the BOD should come down hard on a recognized "good guy" when s/he throws a tantrum, rather than waiting until a "bad boy" steps out of line because, like it or not, people will attribute the severity of the discipline handed out to a "bad boy" to the fact that the player is notorious for throwing tantrums rather than to the seriousness of the specific incident that occasioned the discipline.



Interesting point. I take it you've seen people get by with poor behavior when they shouldn't have. Were they all reported to the BOD and ignored? Or were complaints never filed, which is a different story? (If so, how can the BOD act if it never heard a complaint?)

But if the BOD has been giving passes to people up until now, Cameron Todd has been getting the same number of passes that those "good guys" have been getting, hasn't he? Has he been suspended before? He has been on probation before, as I understand it, which to my mind is a warning letting him know that continued poor behavior may result in something worse in the future. Like a suspension.

So if everyone's been getting passes all along, no one's been treated unfairly up until now. But once the BOD starts to levy harsher punishments, I'd say you're right -- everyone should now be on notice. If one of the "good guys" gets way out of line with a TD, I think the TD now knows he can have that person suspended for poor behavior. It's never going to be incumbent upon the TD to complain, but the TD should know well enough how he feels about being insulted and if it warrants a complaint. Once the complaint is rendered, the BOD should act accordingly.

Since Cameron's suspension, have you already witnessed or heard about poor behavior from a top pro, a "good guy", that someone has complained about to the BOD but has been told by the BOD that it will not hear the complaint? If that hasn't happened yet, I say take a wait-and-see attitude. If later it does happen, then all of us should cry foul. But until then, I'd like to give the BOD the benefit of the doubt.

(By the way, this "good guy"/"bad guy" thing... something tells me that Cameron is a good guy, too, from what I've read on this thread. He simply needs to improve himself, and he's being directed now to do so in the form of this suspension. In my opinion, he should take this as an opportunity to do better and move forward, and the rest of us should take heed because blowing up in a fit of temper is something any of us can do if we don't mind ourselves.)

i never said guru was replaced; just said his job will get done now.
:D

craig-- while having an updated status on something is all fine and dandy, i'd still like the actual agreement in my hands since it's less than 4 months until my tournament now. i also don't give a rat's *** what craig thinks about my political correctness or lack thereof. if the membership can't handle someone who speaks his mind, they certainly won't vote for me...but if they're tired of the same old people constantly patting themselves on the back, not following their own rules, and making excuses all the time, they might consider me. so, in conclusion, i'm glad to see "dedicated" nez has resigned. ;)

Listen to the PDGA news radio next Tuesday, as Cam Todd will be on there to give his side of the story.

Unless this is an apology, it will only make this situation more confusing. The PDGA looks amateurish with every decision: discipline him, rescind it, then provide a forum for him to either support their rescission or make it look weak. This is all too weird.

As long as an apology is done anyone and I mean anyone should be able to get away with at least one srcew-up! right pdga office, Ware and I see you all have double standards :mad: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :p :D

and no JUEVOS ranch cheros !!! :(

Please spare me from reading all these posts...

Has Cam accepted the stipulations? When will we know?

No, you gotta read them all. :D

My understanding is that he accepted the offer he received at appeal which in practical terms means donating his winnings this weekend at the USDGC to the Leukemia Charity. Let's hope he will be offering them a hefty check.

thanks

For the next three days I am a Cam Todd fan- Go Cam!

Awwww......come on Nix...........theres only 60 plus pages to read. You can surely do that while waiting for scores and stuff....right?

LoL!

Possible response: Yes I can, and quit calling me Shirley! Just because my bf outdrives me is no reason to think I wear the skirt!

jk man!

I overheard someone saying that Cam hopes this is the biggest fine in PDGA history!!! GO CAM. I hope he wins. :D

If he does well and the fine is large, I will have a new respect for him.

First round 62 (at least that is what the scoring page says). GO CAM

As was previously, he still would get monetary bonuses for playing well. NT points and sponsorship incentives.

Still, the leukemia society is looking at over $1000 if Cam stays in the top 20.

new respect?
cause of money?
:confused:<--------shaking head

new respect?
cause of money?
:confused:<--------shaking head



Naw. Just a sign of character that he still tries to win even if he doesn't get the winnings.

ok, fess up. who rated this thread as a 1 star? :p

Way to go Cam Todd tied for Second this weekend at the USDGC. At least this shows the disc golf community that you care.

This thread is quiet today. I guess Cam tying for 2nd place and donating $4000 shuts every one up.

I for one want to say Good job Cam, way to step up and play.

(I wonder if the PDGA though that the fine would be even close to that)

I'd say the 'fine' had little to do with the $ value, but the fact that Cam agreed to participate in the process at all. I'm glad that he did participate and did so well. Now that he's one of their 'deep pocket' donors, he'll likely get bombarded with requests for donations on a regular basis, not only from the Leukemia group but several other charities as well who share their donor lists.

I wonder what mailing address he will be using?

I wish I could have been in Rock Hill this year to be a part of the USDGC. Even though the closest I get to 'participating' would be to caddie! ;)

What an amazing tourney and overall experience.

I must say that I was happy to see that Cam took his opportunity to enjoy the festivities of the USDGC and that he did play to win knowing he wouldn't be able to keep any winnings. I understand playing for nothing but the thrill of the win as I take 'trophy only' options whenever they are available. :cool:

(I wonder if the PDGA thought that the fine would be even close to that)

I covered that in the Borg post,ante (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Board=Ratings &amp; Skill-based Competition&amp;Number=245680&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Main=244839 &amp;Search=true&amp;#Post245680)
But since that was on a different thread, I've supplied the link.

CONGRATS TO THE LEUKEMIA SOCIETY and Cam Todd for playing so well NICE DONATION. now what AVE joe player will get this same kind of offer when they screw up?? Only time will tell.

Listen to PDGA Radio for this week to hear interviews with Cam and others involved with this incident.

Just listened to it and it sounds like everyone who described the incident on here blew it a little out of proportion after hearing from Cam, Dan, and Ben.

Give it a listen and you might be surprised by what you hear.

I think its a case of the ole "fish story". It got bigger as it passed from person to person. My congrats to Cam. I had him figured all wrong till I heard what I heard this morning. He played very well at the USDGC and deserves all the credit he is given.

I just listened to the radio broadcast. To say that this message board is not a proper media outlet is crazy. The Media attacks all kind of professional athletes on TV, radio, and newspaper and have been for years. Just because our message board is on a smaller scale doesn't make it wrong or worse than what Cam did. If Barry Bonds is doing steroids and a reporter reports it, do the fans attack the reporter or Barry?
Here is how I feel, "Three strikes 'Cam' and you're out!"

I thought the Radio spot was very informative. I did not come away with the impression that the facts were overblown at all. I suppose people fall in line based on their own personal code relative to this behaviour. After years of witnessing whining and doing my own fair share, I hope that the PDGA does draw the line with penalties stiff enough to deter it. Intolerance of boorish behaviour would set us apart from other sports in a positive way.

Also, the radio spot highlighted the fact that the disciplinary process is new to the PDGA and there will be the inevitable kinks. Lets hope this incident provides the jump start for a crystal clear policy that is consistently enforced.

Also, the radio spot highlighted the fact that the disciplinary process is new to the PDGA and there will be the inevitable kinks. Lets hope this incident provides the jump start for a crystal clear policy that is consistently enforced.



I also hope for the same.

Yeah..well...whatever ..until next time..

some people just can't hold back their anger...

lets just hope he does...

I haven't listened to PDGA Radio in several months - Sully has gone full throttle with the schtick! :o

After hearing the broadcast, I couldn't disagree more that the incident was blown out of proportion. What was presented in the broadcast seemed to be pretty much exactly what was presented on this thread, imo.

I also disagree on statements made in the broadcast that the discourse that takes place here on the PDGA Discussion Board "was worse than the actual incident." To my knowledge, I've seen nothing presented on this thread that was inaccurate or slanderous. People simply recollected their experiences with Cam Todd over the years, many of which happened to be negative. To those that perceived this as "bad-mouthing," I think it was appropriate to discuss in the context of this incident. Bottom line is that sometimes the truth hurts.

I dreaded listening to the PDGA radio spot after hearing from the assistant producer that it was going to be a "shocking expose." I wore a funny nose and glasses, and used the back entrance at work, to avoid a 60 Minutes-style ambush interview. :)

Then it turned out to be balanced, honest and fair. :( I was hoping for the real story about how Mark Ellis won my vote by getting me into USDGC for next year. :eek:

:D

Are any of the BOD members sponsored by Discraft, Innova, or Gateway? Just curious.

No elected Board members are Open, Women or Master Pros, so no sponsored players. Pete May is a Sr GM Pro, Stork is a GM Pro and Brian is a Master Pro. The rest of the Board members are Ams (none with Gateway).

http://www.columbusdiscgolf.com/images/nonono.gif

Thanks Cam, for doing your best.

I would like for this to go away now and move on.

Hey BOOTY! I OWE the Lukemia Society $130 who should I send the check to? You, for the tournaments donation for next year or ?????????

Kevin you da man!!!!! Same time same place next year...Just watch out for the kadonk adonks :DTell Ron i really enjoyed watching him play in the lead card on sunday, he was the best dressed man @ Winthrop...

True North how do you feel about

Incest, enslavement & statuatory rape?

too bad the pdga doesn't give you a new pdga disc each year with a renewal though!

discpimp: explain to me then why so many golfers don't jump on the huge bargain of $40 to join pdga so they can have their magazine subscription. If you open your eyes and look around, you will notice that there are way more golfers not in pdga, then the number of pdga members enjoying their magazine. Seriously, think about it for a minute before you respond.



you know the reason why they don't jump on this "deal" it because disc golfers in general are cheap, not all grant you.

you know the reason why they don't jump on this "deal" it because disc golfers in general are cheap, not all grant you.



WORD!

:)

I have a really hard time getting sponsorship for tourneys because I really don't see what we have to offer. I can't even negotiate a hotel deal in good faith because I know hardly anyone will use the hotel if they can get another place for $1 cheaper, and then a bunch of the people that do use the hotel will cram 8 people into a 4 person room.

Hey, I use priceline.com and pack peanut butter sandwiches for lunch myself. Nothing wrong with being cheap. But what do sponsors who aren't golf disc manufacturers get out of being seen by 90 pairs of cheap eyeballs?

Succinctly put, to the point, and 100% true. :eek:

Saving a buck...it's not just for breakfast anymore! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

you know the reason why they don't jump on this "deal" it because disc golfers in general are cheap, not all grant you.



WORD!

:)

I have a really hard time getting sponsorship for tourneys because I really don't see what we have to offer. I can't even negotiate a hotel deal in good faith because I know hardly anyone will use the hotel if they can get another place for $1 cheaper, and then a bunch of the people that do use the hotel will cram 8 people into a 4 person room.

Hey, I use priceline.com and pack peanut butter sandwiches for lunch myself. Nothing wrong with being cheap. But what do sponsors who aren't golf disc manufacturers get out of being seen by 90 pairs of cheap eyeballs?



Priceline would be a great sponsor. And Value Village, Cheaptickets.com, uh..... Wal-mart....Hyundai.....Top Ramen...China....etc. :D

Maybe this is an outlandish rumour, but I heard from a friend who went to the memorial that Cam Todd was absent because he has decided to pursue a career on the PGA!? Can anyone substantiate or dispell this story?

That is EXACTLY what I heard as well and from more then one person and i heard it first hand. Not that that makes it true but i heard that he was going to persue a career in the PGA. He is working at a ball golf course and practicing alot from what i heard. I also heard he is trying to tell people hes going to win a Major in 5 years or something.

That is EXACTLY what I heard as well and from more then one person and i heard it first hand. Not that that makes it true but i heard that he was going to persue a career in the PGA. He is working at a ball golf course and practicing alot from what i heard. I also heard he is trying to tell people hes going to win a Major in 5 years or something.



Cam talked about the golf course he was working at quite a bit at USDGC. He also said he was playing pretty well. It would fit Cam's personality to give ball golf a try... He used to brag that he'd be world champ of disc golf back when I still beat him regularly.

I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw him playing stick golf on T.V. in the next few years... winning a major might be a tough one.

I would destroy Cam, or anyone else on this board, in ball golf.

My homeboy Big Hand John is golfer. He plays disc golf too but he is awesome at golf. I would put cash on him against almost anyone.

Ball golf seems to be WAY harder to get to the top than in disc golf. I wouldn't say Cam couldn't do it. He obviously has a talent for learning quickly. I like how he says he is gonna win a major. At least he doesn't have confidence problems. lol

Last weekend, I was watching the PGA on TV, and they talked about this "bad boy" who was in the top couple cards, but they couldn't show any of his play live because he acted out so often.

I bet almost anyone here on this board could crush me at ball golf!!! But I'd still be having more fun than any of them with my 112 while they are throwing their clubs in trees because the shot an 81! :D;) Ball golf is one sport where folks that shoot really poorly seem to get more out of it than the scratch players who mumble hateful things to themselves and blame everyone else for their mistakes. Well.... :p ;)

At least there is money in BALL golf.

Last weekend, I was watching the PGA on TV, and they talked about this "bad boy" who was in the top couple cards, but they couldn't show any of his play live because he acted out so often.

I bet almost anyone here on this board could crush me at ball golf!!! But I'd still be having more fun than any of them with my 112 while they are throwing their clubs in trees because the shot an 81! :D;) Ball golf is one sport where folks that shoot really poorly seem to get more out of it than the scratch players who mumble hateful things to themselves and blame everyone else for their mistakes. Well.... :p ;)



Maybe Cam would fit right in. :eek: ;)

I would destroy Cam, or anyone else on this board, in ball golf.



Then why are you playing Disc Golf???

Whats your handicap by the way cuz im a pretty **** good stick golfer myself :D

Pimp you are the bestest at everything :D

How far can you throw a ball pimp? ;)

interesting. Wonder if Brad Hammock will step up and do the same??? Brad was crushing golf balls in pittsburgh last year after the PFDO. Congratulations to CAM.....I'd love to see him win some money on the PGA tour. Hopefully he would spread the word about disc golf to the PGA

Im not the best at everything i just happend to play a little stick golf in highschool and during the summer before i became a disc golfer

I can drive a ball 300 yards :D

How far can you throw a ball pimp? ;)



Now that's funny....


<font size=1>Over/Under 550'?</font>

Im not the best at everything i just happend to play a little stick golf in highschool and during the summer before i became a disc golfer

I can drive a ball 300 yards :D



How often do you play now? What is your handicap?

I dont really play anymore but when i stopped playing I was a 7 handicap but i had HORRIBLE course management. I once had a coach tell me if i just played SMART i could shave 5-7 strokes off my average :eek: I never really got into practicing ball golf as much as i have disc golf. I think if i went back to it now with my mental game and some practice i might be able to work it down to scratch :D

I would destroy Cam, or anyone else on this board, in ball golf.



Then why are you playing Disc Golf???

Whats your handicap by the way cuz im a pretty **** good stick golfer myself :D



I am playing disc golf because i lost my full-ride scholarship (around 23K per year) to the Orlando Golf Academy after being suspended from my high school team after qualifying for state as an individual for the 4th consecutive year. I was a scratch golfer at what many would consider the toughest course in Iowa (Waveland in Des Moines). I dont play ball golf anymore because i have no desire to after being booted off my highschool team exactly one day before state.

aaaawwwaaaa...maybe no Cam at this years BHMO. The volunteers will be 'crushed'. :p

Plus disc golf is a hell of a lot cheaper.

I would destroy Cam, or anyone else on this board, in ball golf.



Then why are you playing Disc Golf???

Whats your handicap by the way cuz im a pretty **** good stick golfer myself :D



I am playing disc golf because i lost my full-ride scholarship (around 23K per year) to the Orlando Golf Academy after being suspended from my high school team after qualifying for state as an individual for the 4th consecutive year. I was a scratch golfer at what many would consider the toughest course in Iowa (Waveland in Des Moines). I dont play ball golf anymore because i have no desire to after being booted off my highschool team exactly one day before state.



Sorry to hear that. Hopefully, you will get back in the swing of things (no pun intended). You obviously have great talent and it is unfortunate that you have lost the desire to use it.

Ive played stick golf for 25 years before I had a stroke last year and couldn't play anymore. So I tokk up Disc GOlf and am hooked on it.
I went to UT and was friends with some of the College Ball Golfers. The fact was that almost everyone of them were scratch Golfers by age 15yrs.These guys would always tell me iIf you do not start playing Golf by the time your 12 yrs old your chances are slim to none of ever making it pro.

The only execption I know of is Larry Nelson who took up Golf at age 21 !! And won a PGA Championship. And on his very first round ever playing golf he shot an 83 !!! Just think about that a second.

Good luck to this Cam character but Ball golf is totally a different animal than Disc Golf. I would bet the farm this guy will NOT win a Major in 5 yrs. You think Cam's great desire and work ethic will do it for him !! HA HA, is what I say.

If he can practice for 28 years 8 hours a day until his hands bleed on the practice tees like Vijay Singh has then he might have a chance.

Until then buddy I say don't quit your day job !!!

As a fellow NC'er I have had many convos with Cam.

He said he does maintanence on ball golf course now and works on his game and he is trying to get on a Nationwide Tour type tour...

Out of curiosity, what condition did your stroke inflict that prevents you from playing ball golf but still allows you to play disc golf?

Even though everything you said may be correct, that was kind of a dick thing to say. Why are you bashing someone that has set a very high goal and is actively set out to achieve it?

There really is something wrong with the way you think.

i suck at ball golf /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I'm not the best "Ball Golfer" around..but it is in my blood..My parents both play and my brother is the Director of Golf at Bridelwood Golf Club in the Dallas area...Last time I was down he hooked me up...I got to play a round of Golf with Rod Pampling!!!!(a pro on the PGA tour) It was a pretty sweet experience!!!
http://forum.ottawagolf.com/images/smilies/golf.gif

" Out of curiosity, what condition did your stroke inflict that prevents you from playing ball golf but still allows you to play disc golf? "


Ha the Lung,
That is a great question !! I had a stroke caused by a vascular tumor deep in the right side of my Brain Stem in Oct. 2003. Its inoperable and I have to live with it.
Couldn't walk or see for a few months. I started to improve and last August after I had continued to rehabilitate I went out for the first timein nearly 10 months to play stick golf. Well, after playing for several decades I was totally not prepared for what lay ahead on the Ball golf course. When I swung back the club and made the down swing everything doubled up in my vision because of this fast movement. As a result, I could not even get the ball off the ground. Talk about frustrating. Thru the first 4 holes I could not get the Ball up in the air. And this was just too much for a person of my caliber and experience to take.

So I quit after 4 holes and just watched my brother play. After the round, I remebered a good friend of mine mentioned how he loved a sport called Disc Golf back in 91'. Anyway, the next day I called him up and bought some Discs from him and went out to the Dg Course in our town and found that I could half way play this Sport without having my condition from the stroke affect me too much.

That was the end of August and I have been hooked every since playing a minimum of 8 rounds a week.
:cool:

Anymore I say [*****] Stick Golf because Disc Golf rules in my opinion ;)

Ha Kid Roc,
Maybe it was harsh!! But I guess I have seen first hand what it takes to be a professional and know the odds are just so stacked up against people like Cam. The guy is what about 30 yrs old ??

If it was to happen it would already happen. However, shooting for the Senior Tour in 20 yrs. is not out of the question. But those guys are incredible to. You got Tom Watson and I believe the Shark (Greg Norman) will be turning 50 soon.

But I will say to anyone with a dream to go for it if they have the time and resources

It was a harsh, but honest, knowlegeable, and even friendly...it's not you who needs looking into the mirror, creekside.

i think Cam would be a good addition to the show Big Break, you guys ever watch that? is he going to play any discgolf this year tourny wise? maybe hes just dissapointed about the whole suspension thing and it turned him off, cant say i blame him

I know he is signed up for the MSDGC, but that is all.

The best disc golfer that plays ball golf that I know is Al Schack, he played for his College team, he is still very good.

I've played a couple rounds of silly stick with Al and a couple rounds with Brad Hammock. While Al is pretty good, I gotta say I'd pick Brad in a heads up match.

Maybe we can work out a heads up match when they are both around for DGLO :D

I've played a couple rounds of silly stick with Al and a couple rounds with Brad Hammock. While Al is pretty good, I gotta say I'd pick Brad in a heads up match.



Brad and I played Rocky Gap (a Jack Nicklaus Signature Course) in Cumberland, MD last year. We played from the tips and Brad shot 79 with inferior equipment compared to the PGA players. Brad can downright swing it. I thought I was a good golfer until that course exposed the weaknesses in my game Although I did get an Eagle 3 on the #2 hadicapped hole on the course :D

I've also swung it with Cam at Mission Trails in San Diego. We tied shooting 42 on the front, so I would say he is FAAAAAAR from making it to the tour.

I talked to Al last year at the USDGC's and he said he was training for the Champions tour in 10 years. Totally a realistic goal for Sugar. Dude can flat out play and with 10 yeras to prepare, he should be ready. Can't wait to hear on TV , "Here is Sugar Shack putting for the win"!!!!! :eek: :cool::D

I've played with Al a couple of times -- he has a very powerful swing, very classic in look, hits it deep. His short game is rusty, nothing that couldn't be cured with some practice.

Yeah that would be a great goal for this Schack fellow. Sounds like he has a solid game playing in college. Just remember in10 years he will have to be going against the likes of Vijay Singh, Fred Couples, Davis Love, Paul Azinger, Nick Faldo and others who will also be turning 50 and older at this time :eek:

Perhaps John Daily (sp) will have some competition for the most tempered golfer on the PGA if Cam joins. I wish him luck with his ball golf goals, both games require the same mental game, it is just different mechanics.

I love playing ball golf. I am not very good at it, the last time I played I shot a 92 on the Gold Course at Purdue University. It is just too expensive to play, disc golf is free, relatively.

i just noticed that cam hasent even payed for his membership for this year, he must really be serious bout it

well, he won't get a slap on the wrist at any pga venues

Aaron...Waveland isn't the toughest course in Iowa. Boslanden is the toughest course followed up by the Amana's. Although Waveland is pretty tough. I played there last year and shot a 39 on the front. I used to play some stick too. Played in high school and played in college too. I used to carry a 3 handicap...but now it is more like an 8.

Bos Landen...i still remember every rolling hill on that course, i could never break 75 there for some reason, i absolutely LOVED the front 9 on that course, esp. the short par 5 at the bottom of the hill (#2? or #3?) followed by that sweet par 3 that was wayyy below the tee off...what did you shoot on the BACK at Waveland? Much tougher than the front...never played the Amana's, or the new course in Polk City...we should play sometime!

Dude...a lot of us that are in the club play quite a few rounds during the summer. I think Kuzi plays the most out of anybody.

I could have SWORE I spotted Cam at the Players Championship yesterday on television....DOH!!!!

He's not on the players list: http://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/theplayers/field

Go J.L.Lewis...Emporia Kansas native

i grew up playing Tryall, Rose Hall and others on jamaicas north and west coasts. still enjoy playing a few times a year, can still drive a very straight 250 and reasonable irons but just don't have the love for the game. disc golf is superior, in my book anyway.

I could have SWORE I spotted Cam at the Players Championship yesterday on television....DOH!!!!



as a spectator i hope

As Cam probably wasn't playing alot of ball golf last year, there is NO way. You must QUALIFY for the Player's Championship. I believe it's the top 125 on the money list.

Prrrrrnnnnnnnnntttttttt!

I have saved alot on priceline.com , hotels.com

i used priceline.com once. within a couple days my credit card was being used at some very shady establishments in northwestern mexico. problem was i was in austin, texas at the time. i will never use priceline again. ever.

Dohhhhhhh..................I had issues with PayPal and Ebay.

I guess nothing is absolutely safe ?

Post deleted by Rhett_the_Admin

What's Renny ? :confused:

Wow, I got deleted by Rhett. Does anyone know what for?????

My post only said "Renny".

Renny is the best disc golf course in the world! It's where The Van plays his best golf.

Now I know. Sorry Rhett! :D

just wondering what it is that camm todd did? i see it brought up all the time but i have no idea what it is. If its one of those things that shouldn't be asked just say so.

He won the 2001 PDGA Professional World Championship...

Just read this whole thread Cam Todd Suspended (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=231237&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1) You need to read everything to get what happened.

No need to rehash this topic, mods can this thread be deleted? There is a search feature if people want to know.....

does he play at all anymore or is he still going to go pro PGA, lol?

does he play at all anymore or is he still going to go pro PGA, lol?

He might play one sanctioned event a year, but if not he has his own Carpentry business from what I have heard thru the grapevine.

does he play at all anymore or is he still going to go pro PGA, lol?



I saw him at Wintrhop Gold with some buddies and Lesli on the Sunday fan day this past year. He looked like himself - saw him on the old quarter mile hole - just walked up and threw really quick and just purred this disc straight as hell. He said he still plays everynow and then when he gets the bug.

I think that "we" essentially "vibed" out a natural.
Way to go! :mad:

I would have to agree with Tafe. I know back at the 2004 World's in Des Moines, a certain official seemed to make it his job to almost bird dog everything that Cam did on the course. Cam couldn't even hardly mark his disc without this official standing right next to him watching him. It's crap like that, that really gets me going.

I think that people should be accountable for their own choices. I think that everyone makes unfortunate choices, but not everyone assumes acocuntability for them.

There were several Cam Todd threads. This was the main one. This is how i found it:

I used the Search tool above, next to the words Main Index. I thought of a word that would come up here but not on a lot of other threads. I limited the search to posts over two years old. The word, by the way, was "leukemia."

Enjoy.

does cam todd still disc golf????
you know this guy (http://www.disclife.com/fe_camtodd.shtml)

Do you mean the 2001 PDGA World Champ? Cam Todd?
http://www.disclife.com/w2001_ta_07.shtml

he has a course on his property, and showed up for doubles occasionally...I wish he would play again,,

Me too. He was one of my favorite guys to watch play. The guy could throw shots that nobody else would even try.

Do you mean the 2001 PDGA World Champ? Cam Todd?
http://www.disclife.com/w2001_ta_07.shtml


thats the one

You mean the guy who flipped out at the hambrick and was suspended by the pdga? that guy?

You mean the guy who chose to donate his winnings of $4,000 at USDGC 04 to Leukemia research, right? ;)

You mean the guy who chose to donate his winnings of $4,000 at USDGC 04 to Leukemia research, right? ;)



SCHNAPP!!!!

You mean the guy who chose to donate his winnings of $4,000 at USDGC 04 to Leukemia research, right? ;)



Dont you mean the guy who was FORCED to donate his winning if he wanted to attend the tournament at all???

Did Cam choose to donate the money?

No

Did Cam choose to play the event knowing he would have to give his money to charity?

Yes

Cam chooses to play 04 USDGC = $4,000 for Leukemia research

Cam Chooses not to play 04 USDGC = $0 for Leukemia research

Thumbs up on his choice!

Cam chooses to play 04 USDGC = $4,000 for Leukemia research

Cam Chooses not to play 04 USDGC = $0 for Leukemia research

Thumbs up on his choice!



exactly

he got suspended from the pdga???

yeah, theres a long thread about it called Cam Todd suspened and it's under players.

lots of posts....

So we are all talking about the same guy.... right?

What a Nice guy

Cam chooses to play 04 USDGC = $4,000 for Leukemia research

Cam Chooses not to play 04 USDGC = $0 for Leukemia research

Thumbs up on his choice!

Two BIG thumbs up!

You mean the guy who flipped out at the hambrick and was suspended by the pdga? that guy?

In the last six months I've seen two guys flip out on the TD worse than Cam Todd did. One of the guys got kicked out of the tournament or he quit, but I guess the Marshal decided we didn't need another Cam Todd Incident. This is another instance where someone enforces a rule and what everyone else learns from that is maybe we're better off not enforcing that rule! :eek:

and that rule is???

Bruce, can you please relate whatever incident of which you are speaking?
It sounds like someone freaked out on a TD and you are advocating that this type of behavior should be ignored.
I doubt that is what you mean.

but I guess the Marshal decided we didn't need another Cam Todd Incident.

if someone freaked out on a TD then you already had another cam todd incident. what you didnt have (apparently) was a well-deserved cam todd suspension

Cam Chooses not to play 04 USDGC = $0 for Leukemia research
<font color="red"> Not so happy Cam </font>
http://www.disclife.com/imgs/itb_todd01.jpg














Cam chooses to play 04 USDGC = $4,000 for Leukemia research
<font color="red"> Happy Cam </font>
http://www.pdgatour.com/images/DGLO2004-CamTodd-Trophy.jpg


Thumbs up on his choice!

must have been the facial hair

must have been the facial hair



Like Spock's goatee.

Bruce, can you please relate whatever incident of which you are speaking?
It sounds like someone freaked out on a TD and you are advocating that this type of behavior should be ignored.
I doubt that is what you mean.

No, I cannot. If the TDs and Marshall and other players involved want to bury the two things, I think that's their call. Having not buried one once, I know what these things smell like, unburied.

Does anyone have any real reliable info about Cam's status? Is he done with the sport? He has been gone for 2 years now and is also no longer listed on Discraft's website as a sponsored player.

Cam lives outside of Charlotte now and him and Leslie have gotten married. He works at a golf course doing grounds crew work and Lesli teaches dance.

He has a course (I think just 9 holes) in his back yard. I've seen him at the Charlotte Open a few times watching / playing after the round and saw him playing a round at Winthrop after USDGC one year.

Cam lives outside of Charlotte now and him and Leslie have gotten married. He works at a golf course doing grounds crew work and Lesli teaches dance.

He has a course (I think just 9 holes) in his back yard. I've seen him at the Charlotte Open a few times watching / playing after the round and saw him playing a round at Winthrop after USDGC one year.


WRONG
Yes Cam married Leslie. However he doesn't work at a golf course. He has his own carpet and flooring company. He lives with Leslie and Dickie B. in Monroe with two baskets. He spends his free time playing crooked stick.

Hmm, things have changed and I was given some bad info. Thanks for the correction.

Crooked Stick is a country club in Indianapolis, IN...John Daly won a major there, PGA Championship I believe(?).

Is there another Crooked Stick golf course in NC?

pretty sure he was using the term crooked stick to mean playing ball golf.

MTL: nice shooting last weekend :)

thanks man!

MTL: nice shooting last weekend :)



off topic /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif lol

What exactly did this guy do that caused him to be suspended from the PDGA? It seems that alot of people here lift this guy up as a martyr.

Crooked Stick is a country club in Indianapolis, IN...John Daly won a major there, PGA Championship I believe(?).

Is there another Crooked Stick golf course in NC?



There is 'Wicked Stick' in Myrtle Beach, SC; a John Daly designed course (perhaps in honor of his achievement in Indiana)