Hello from sunny and warm Michigan. Well it will be when this tournament arrives June 8-10, at Hudson Mills and Kennsington Metro Parks. Information on signing up is at www.a3disc.org (http://www.a3disc.org) Prices are much less this year. Space will be limited.
All Pros and Advanced AM's will be playing the famous toboggan course. The US AM Championships will also be played the following week at the toboggan. We have already started getting people signing up, so if you want in, do it now!

Peace,

Pad Timmons
TD DGLO 07

So is the layout for Toboggin going to be the same as it was for the USADGC last year or is it different and what's the Monster like?

Hi Dirty,

The layout on the Toboggan course should be close to the same as last years AM. Nats. The Monster course is a long course that has wide open holes and tight long holes, we have been manicuring this course over the last two years and it is a jewel to play. Hope you can make it to Michigan for this event.

Peace,

Pad Timmons
TD DGLO 07

That sounds great! I was promising myself that I'd make it back for the DGLO this year since I'm not playing am anymore. Toboggin is such an incredible course that I'm gonna do everything I can to make it to this. The fact that the Monster sounds great too is quite the bonus!

Update on Hotels and Camping for DGLO:

For those of you playing at DGLO and looking to be close to Ann Arbor for the nightlife, shopping, etc, we have worked out a deal with Microtel. $52 and $57 per night for single and double rooms respectively. Distance to Hudson Mills is 17 miles and distance to Toboggan is 25 miles.

For someone who is staying for both DGLO and AM Nationals (back to back weekends) we have worked out a deal with Kensington Inn in Howell for $49/night. Distance to Toboggan is 19 miles and distance to Hudson Mills is 17.5 miles. We have 20 rooms here blocked out for both DGLO and AM Nationals.

Distance between Hudson Mills and Toboggan is 27 miles, so these two hotels offer the best combination of price and location.

Booking and contact information for each hotel is here:
http://www.a3disc.org/2007/dglo/lodgecamp.htm

Hello , The Great Lakes Open has some really great fund raiser discs, some of these are only available at www.sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com)

07' DGLO First Run ESP Flash-Monster Colormax $15.00
07' DGLO First Run ESP Flash-Volcanic Colormax $15.00
07' DGLO CryZtal Avenger-Volcanic Colormax $20.00
07' DGLO CryZtal Avenger-Monster Colormax $20.00

Get them while you can!
Also registration is now open at www.A3disc.org (http://www.A3disc.org)

Peace,

Pad Timmons
DGLO TD

Boy I'm already getting excited about another chance to play toboggan and to see what the monster has to offer. Just out of curiousity is there already a flier posted anywhere? There probably is and I just can't find it. Thanks.

Lots of info here (http://www.a3disc.org/) at a3disc.org

Hope to see you out there Logan.

Boy I'm already getting excited about another chance to play toboggan and to see what the monster has to offer. Just out of curiousity is there already a flier posted anywhere? There probably is and I just can't find it. Thanks.



Come on up bro!!! Im sure I got some floor space for you to crash on for this tournament!!! Plus I live about equal distance from both courses!!! A little closer to the Toboggan but not too far from the Monster.......So hit me with a PM or call me if you plan to come out!!!

I cant wait to see what the BIG DOGS shoot on the Toboggan!!!

The hot round?

I'd say right around 50. Maybe 49, maybe 51. What do you say Champ?

I think the hot score on the Toboggan will be 48 if the winds are low and the Monster course could see a 60 for the Pro players.
For the ams on the Toboggan a 53 and the Monster a 65.

booooo on no Original

booooo on no Original



I'd rather play an extra round on Toboggan than Original. Have you played Tobo?
Its even better than that 120 minuTTe you keep jabbering about.

THe original, is the original gansta course. I lo9ve hole #1, worth the price of admission. (monster no, orig yes)

workin the nght shift, all of my patients are breathin and Im in a purple haze!!!!!!!

The hot round?

I'd say right around 50. Maybe 49, maybe 51. What do you say Champ?



I would say a 51 maybe a 50 if someone is SUPER HOT but that course is really tough and it depends alot on the conditions at the time of play!!! But I would say a 51 will be HOT if the conditions are nice!!!

I just cant wait to put this course back in the ground and see what all the TOP guys shoot on this new layout since it has changed quite a bit since the 2000 Worlds!!!

I predict 50 will be hot.....

Is there a google aerial map of this course ?

There is a nice overhead shot of the course on thier website.

http://www.amnationals.com/

Recognize that Barry and Ken shoot their rating with a 53 on Toboggan. A 50 is about 1070 or so, which is definitely hot but not abnormal for these guys.

http://www.amnationals.com/Course/Tobboggan_Map_-_Full.jpg

Recognize that Barry and Ken shoot their rating with a 53 on Toboggan. A 50 is about 1070 or so, which is definitely hot but not abnormal for these guys.



There have been several tweaks since '00, so I'm not sure the numbers from that time apply directly any longer. That said, anything in the low 50s is a mighty solid round.

Joe

I'm using the 2006 Am Nats SSA numbers not 2000. Changes since last year planned for this year?

I would just like to say to anyone who hasn't played this course that no aerial photo, short of one with a USGS overlay, can possibly convey the challenges this course presents. What a course! Can't wait to come home and play it!

We have raised over $1000 already to add to the Purse. Thanks to all of your support. Keep them buying...flying!

Discraft Great Lakes Open
Fund Raising Discs
This First Run ESP Flash has the 2007 Discraft Great Lakes Open "Monster" logo ColorMaxed on it. Only $15.00
The 2007 DGLO "Volcanic" logo is ColorMaxed on this Limited Edition, First Run ESP Flash. Only $15.00

Great to throw or to collect, the ESP Flash feels and flies great! All proceeds go to the 2007 Discraft Great Lakes Open.

These discs will be for sale at Loco at the Mills May 6 Hudson Mills Ann Arbor or order online at www.sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com)

8 weeks and counting for the DGLO 25th Anniversary.
Come and play some of the best courses Michigan has to offer. The Toboggan course is looking good this year. We hope to open the course up the week before the tourney. Stay tune for further details on when it will be open for practice. Trimming has begun on the Monster course and it will be looking sweet come June.

Sign up is now available at www.A3disc.org (http://www.A3disc.org)

Peace,

Pad Timmons
DGLO 25

I can't wait it should be fun. :cool:

Will the advanced women have chance to shoot a round on the Toboggan?

Only Advanced (AM1) will be shooting Toboggan
Adv. Women and Adv. Masters will be at Hudson Mills all weekend.

Dave Feldberg the winner of the HOF NT in Georgia has just signed up to play this event. Who will be the one to take him down at the DGLO? Spring has sprung here and the courses are looking great!

Discraft Great Lakes Open
Fund Raising Discs
This First Run ESP Flash has the 2007 Discraft Great Lakes Open "Monster" logo ColorMaxed on it. Only $15.00
The 2007 DGLO "Volcanic" logo is ColorMaxed on this Limited Edition, First Run ESP Flash. Only $15.00

Great to throw or to collect, the ESP Flash feels and flies great! All proceeds go to the 2007 Discraft Great Lakes Open.

These discs will be for sale at Loco at the Mills May 6 Hudson Mills Ann Arbor or order online at www.sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com)

Hey Now,

We just got a email from the World Champion Peter Shive that he will be bringing a group of Senior Grand Masters to the DGLO. So any Sr. Grand Masters that want to join him please do.

Great Players packs for the DGLO this year for Ams., a couple of special discs, Discraft Hat, Supercolor mini, and lunch on Sunday.
Ams. round should be done by 12:00 with awards to follow and then you can still make it up to the Toboggan to watch final top Pro players complete there round. Sign up soon as we are only accepting 72 Advance players and the USAMDGC is the very next week.
Peace,
Pad Timmons
TD DGLO

Only 32 days until the NT kicks off. Fund raiser discs will be available this weekend at the B tier event Loco at the MIlls at Hudson Mills this Sunday. They are also available at www.sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com) Help support the PDGA NT tour and purchase a disc today. Sign up now or dream how you could have played the best course in the Midwest.

Peace,

Pad

29 days until the DGLO Sign up now!
Player Package Hint
Supercolor - - - - - -?

Torque?
Xtreme?
Shadow?
Tracer?

Xclone?

The 'Lacey Inn' (not a real hotel!) is providing cheap lodging once again this year, and there are a few spots still open. We are about 15 minutes from the Toboggan course, north of the park, and about 35-40 minutes from Hudson Mills.

If you are interested, email me at lacey17429@yahoo.com to inquire. These will go quickly, now that I have advertised it. Please do NOT PM me...I don't login very often, and will not see it.

We are open for both DGLO and AM Nats, so any AMs that want to play both events can get hooked up here.

I heard this rumor last night that the championship black baskets won't be used because the requested maintenance hadn't been completed by the scheduled date? What does Pad have to say to this horrible rumor.
Pad??

I heard this rumor last night that the championship black baskets won't be used because the requested maintenance hadn't been completed by the scheduled date? What does Pad have to say to this horrible rumor.
Pad??



I really hope this is true!!! And to be honest almost EVERY pro that I have talked to say they dont even come to the Great Lakes Open because of the fact that we play the Monster course at all!!! I dont understand why we cant just play Toboggan Blues Toboggan!!! I mean jeez atleast give us ONE course we can go low on!!! That and it would most likely bring back some pros that havent attended in quite some time!!!

Just my 2 cents!!!

I'll be there either way. See ya in a month or so Millz!

DISC GOLFERS SPECIAL MASSAGE RATES AVAILABLE AT IVY GARDEN MASSAGE!

For any of you disc golfers coming into town or staying a few days later, my office is about 15 minutes from the Toboggan and I will be working up until Thursday early afternoon. I offer 30 min, 45 min, 1 hour or 1.5 hours. The Toboggan is a grueling course of heavy climbs and dirty shule - make sure your body is ready for the 4 to 5 hour round!

Typical disc golf muscle patterns:
Driving issues relating to shoulders, rhomboids, trap, pecs and the muscles of the rotator cuff.
Torso Twist issues relating to the low back, mid back, hips, gluts and ribcage.
Walking and Bending Over issues relating to the low back, hips, hamstrings, quads, knees, calves and feet.

I have worked miracles with the neck.

My references:
Feldberg said I did the deepest work of anyone he's tried out in all of the country.
Sprague won Marshall Street three days after massage therapy for a hip that was highly dysfunctional mid-week.
Wyngard finished 7th at Bowling Green 06 after getting rid of chronic pain from a twist.
Scott White received 2 sessions of deep shoulder work and played pain-free at BG 07, finishing 16th out of 334.
There's lots more, but I think y'all get the idea.

So that's my plug. I love working on disc golfers because I love taking credit for their wins. And I love getting thanked in acceptance speeches. So even though helping you is really all about me, your muscles and your game will benefit tremendously.

Sarah D.
Ivy G.

Hi DGLO Players,

The Monster course will be played with the original blue layout for this years event, during all rounds of those who get to play it.
I have contacted Bill Brady who is doing registration and he was called away to work in the U.P. of Michigan and has not updated mail in registrations, this will be updated in the next few days though, through the magic of the internet. Sign up today, don't delay.

Peace,

Pad Timmons
DGLO TD

Why is there only 11 people signed up...
A couple of us want to drive from CT but........
It doesn't seem economical.
por que

The PDGA lists are now updated with the mail in and online registrations.

Pro List
http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=6270

Am List
http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=6387

Hi DGLO Players,

The Monster course will be played with the original blue layout for this years event, during all rounds of those who get to play it.
I have contacted Bill Brady who is doing registration and he was called away to work in the U.P. of Michigan and has not updated mail in registrations, this will be updated in the next few days though, through the magic of the internet. Sign up today, don't delay.

Peace,

Pad Timmons
DGLO TD



Pad,

Do you mean Monster BLACKS will be played for DGLO. The original course is red/blue and the monster is yellow/black.

Are you confirming that we WILL NOT be using the champion pins on the monster? That would be a shame. The main reason they were installed was for DGLO...

-- ABEE

Are you confirming that we WILL NOT be using the champion pins on the monster? That would be a shame.



A shame for you! I love it. I bet hot score will be -12 on Blacks.

That is what he is saying we discussed it at the last DGLO meeting on Tuesday night. You will be playing Long Tees to Regular baskets, no extra pins, no Championship Black.

Why is there only 11 people signed up...
A couple of us want to drive from CT but........
It doesn't seem economical.
por que



DGLO has averaged 52 players in the MPO division over the last 5 years. We're expecting registration to pick up significantly in the next 2-3 weeks. DGLO has also averaged $17,400/year in the pro purse over the same time period.

Due to the large fundraising effort from Discraft, A3 and Local 101 the pro purse will be very nice. Fundraiser discs are still on sale at http://www.sportdiscs.com/fundraiserdiscs.html My favorite is the ESP Flash.

A lot of the Michigan players have yet to sign up. I would imagine the Pro field to be around 100 total participants.

Yes I was wrong, the Pros will play monster black to regular baskets, darn my color blindness, I guess I should have said long tee pads.

Peace,

Pad

A lot of the Michigan players have yet to sign up. I would imagine the Pro field to be around 100 total participants.



In your dreams...

Why is there only 11 people signed up...
A couple of us want to drive from CT but........
It doesn't seem economical.
por que



If you guys make the trip you ALL have a place to stay at the MillZZ residence!!! And I assure you there will be ATLEAST 30 or more Open players from MI that have yet to sign up!!!

And the Toboggan is worth the drive even if the Open field is lacking!!!

Plus we dont have to play the STUPID champ pins this year either!!! Id say this will be the best DGLO since I have played disc golf so come on out!!!

check the list again the numbers have improved, we got the mail in on the list, still low numbers but we have time to go. You might have to go to the Ann Arbor listing to get the link to the total list but the numbers have jumped. Right now Feldberg is the man to beat. But maybe it will be a local for a change.

Recognize that Barry and Ken shoot their rating with a 53 on Toboggan. A 50 is about 1070 or so, which is definitely hot but not abnormal for these guys.



If SSA's were static from round to round, this would be true. Weather and any number of factors could contribute to the field shooting better or worse by 1-3 strokes changing that rating by much as 30 points. The truth is, 53 could be a 1040 round in the morning, and it could be a 1010 or 1070 round in the afternoon, even if the conditions are exactly the same. It depends on what everyone shoots.

Chap

Sorry for the thread drift.

DGLO has been a fun time the 2 times I've gone. Toboggan was fun in 2000 when we played it at Worlds.

Chap

Toboggan Course will be put in on May 19th and the Detroit Area Club Flying Saucer will be hosting a tournament there on May 20.
You will be able to come in early and practice course, starting May 21. Entry's have been updated from mail in and on line registration.

Pad
DGLO

On-line and mail-in registration lists are now up on the A3Disc website. www.A3disc.org (http://www.A3disc.org)

Toboggan Course has had some, well many more Russian Olives removed so I predict (unless I change the course up) it will play much easier and we will have a new course record. Any body want to predict how low a score it will be? -1, -2, -5 ???

Pad

Pad could you elaborate on which holes have seen the most transformation?

Holes 5, 6, 15, 17?

A lot of the Michigan players have yet to sign up. I would imagine the Pro field to be around 100 total participants.



In your dreams...



I was talking all Pros....as in, Open Men, Open Women, Masters, Grandmasters...etc.

A lot of the Michigan players have yet to sign up. I would imagine the Pro field to be around 100 total participants.



In your dreams...



I was talking all Pros....as in, Open Men, Open Women, Masters, Grandmasters...etc.



Right on. I just laughed cause I thought you meant 100 pro men! Last year the total pro field was 67 so hopefully involving the Tobo will entice that extra 30 or so players into making the trip...

Holes 9, 15 and 16 on the toboggan seem to have had the most clearing done. It has made these 3 holes easier.

Will they have speed golf on holes 1 and 18 at Toboggan for this years DGLO?

Hello Champion of Speed Golf,

We will have a speed golf at the US. AM. Championships but I do not think we will have time for it at DGLO. Are you wanting to keep your crown? We could have you demonstrate it for all the Pros.

Pad

Side bets? I'm in and can defend.

not if i can get back up the hill in one piece....

The Toboggan gets installed tomorrow. Get it while it's hot!!!

Yes it does, we are currently loading the brand new Discraft ChainStar baskets onto the truck to bring over to the Toboggan to place in the ground. Come and get it!

Well yesterday about 30 pros played the Toboggan in a tourney setting, the best score I heard was a +1. It was quite windy so I do think a better score can be had. The grass is cut very nicely and the flowers are in full bloom. You can sign up for the DGLO tourney at www.a3disc.org (http://www.a3disc.org)

Pad

Arbor Springs Water Company has come on as our Water Sponsor.
Pinckney Trading Post will be supplying the Ice.
Sounds like some cool cool beverages just in case the Heat and Hills get to you! I do feel a -3 is possible this year on the Toboggan. Come on to the DGLO, show me who can get the course record!

Peace,

Pad

Played the Monster for my league round tonight and was pleased to see that tons of intrusive evergreens and Russian Olives have been removed. Hole A, B, D, and The Monster Hole (14) are especially friendler. Yahoo!

You are so correct Terry,
Hole A had a Russian Olive taken out of the middle of fairway just past the short t-pad on the right. They removed 4 more around the basket so there is close to 10 meters around the basket.
Hole D had a tremendous amount of clearing along the edges for the first 75 feet of fairway.
Hole 14 had a large one removed next to short t-pad and two more farther up the left side of fairway making landing zones for you 2nd or 3rd shot.
I toured the course and was told much more will be worked on in the coming two weeks.
Local 101 has volunteered to do a clean up day on June 5th and will be helping move wood chips and general cleaning of course a big thanks goes out to them for the help.

Big courses mean Big Fun hope you all can come on up to Michigan, the summers are great.

Pad Timmons
DGLO TD

Can't wait to play the Monster!!!!!
Whats the course par?

Coming to a tourney near YOU!

that would be a par 72

That must mean there are some par 2s if the Monster 14 is a par 5?

We have always played the monster hole as par 3 :D:D:D

I have a hard time paring...

Holes 4 and 5 should really be considered Par 2s. Those are the holes that Rock Searle aced, back to back, in the 2000 Worlds.

Of course, I failed to birdie 4 last night :(

To brag, though . . . last weekend I got 3s on Monster Championship Black on hole 8 and hole A. My first time for each. They are very tough to par. (That was before the brush removal!)

Make that Five and Six, Terry. Collectively, the pair is a par five, I'd say.

Just writing copy and editing some footage of Rock at the USDGC from last year for my next episode. Coincidence? I don't think so. Something's afoot with the Force.

Joe

Glad to hear brush is being removed on this course. We may see someone reach double digits on Blacks to traditional baskets!

We may see someone reach double digits on Blacks to traditional baskets!



I believe the course record for that layout is still Rico's -13 :cool:

I believe that Sugar also holds a piece of that record. 3rd round 59.

2001 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=2622&year=2007&incl ude_ratings=1#Open)

I see there are alot of people signing up. Thanks for all the work you did on the monster.

Thanks Mary, there are more people signing up. We have 3 Pro Sr. Grandmasters and 2 Pro Grandmasters already signed up and quite a few Pro Women, this will be a fun tournament.
Remember we are only taking limited number of Amt., so be sure to sign up soon.
I am currently down in beautiful Columbus, OH for the UPA College Ultimate Championships top 32 teams out of some 600+ Colleges, another really fun flying disc sport. See you all soon.

Peace,

Pad Timmons
DGLO TD

Well I have seen a lot of people playing the Toboggan and the course looks fantastic, we have had plenty of rain here to make this course look its best. So what are your scores? Who has had their personal hot rounds? Any stories to tell? There is still time to sign up for this event, sign up now at www.a3disc.org (http://www.a3disc.org)

Just got a call from Hudson Mills, the workers took a boom truck out to Monster hole and trimmed off the top of the trees in front of the long t-pad to make throwing down the fairway much better. Also took out more bushes all over the course. Hole #4 is now an ace hole thanks to Mother Nature who took out a large branch from an Oak, which then took out about a dozen trees on that hole. I will go out there tonight and report on the progress.
Still a few ESP Flash available at www.sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com)

Peace,

Pad

Well done Pad. Sounds like I won't even recognize the course when I go out there next!!!

I was out at the Monster course last night and worked on trimming up some more of the holes, with major help from Jonny V, he has been working on this course for over a month now! The long t on the Monster hole, they took out about 5 more Russian olives about 200 feet out and trimmed down the entire fairway (trees, bushes) for the first 200 ft. by 6 feet or more so going down the fairway is much smoother on your initial shot. The fairway from 200 to 300ft. have been widened, twice as wide.
Hole 4 did have a massive tree branch fall that took out trees 12'' in circumference, so this hole is now a much easier hole.
Come one come all to the DGLO, it will be a very fun tournament.

Thanks,

Pad Timmons

Thanks for all the hard work Pad and Jonny V. I'm excited to see all of the trimming and changes to the course next week. DGLO should be a great time.

It's a shame about 4 though, the hole was a deuce hole but required a good shot. Can't do much about Mother Nature though.

I saw #4 on Tuesday. I thought the tee shot looks the same, but all the brush that was in front of the basket is gone, making for a bigger green and easier putt if you drop short. #14 is sweet, I've been 4ing it since the changes were made.

Pad had told me they cleared some russian olives (RO's) on the monster on the left side of the fairway, actually they were removed from the right side.
1 of the RO's was removed near the AM tee on the monster hole.
the Trees were topped in front of the PRO tee on the Monster hole. as well as widening the landing area behind the AM Tee on the Monster hole.
the A Hole had that nasty small RO removed like 50-75 feet out from the AM tee, boy does that open up the hole from there.
The other letter holes also had some work done on them to clear them up and open the areas out in front of the tee pads.

Great Work Johnny V, Tod More, & Pad and anybody else who participated in the clearing.

With any luck at all, Dwayne will have his post hole digger out in a few days and plant some tree trunks to block up some holes. Hole 4 M, 7 O, could at least use a couple each.

Joe

Everyone is invited, competitors, volunteers, disc golfers who just happen to be nearby, to our home for the Third Annual "Bratwursts at the BRATS" Party.

In addition to brats we'll have burgers, some other foods, refreshments (beer, wine) from 5 pm to dusk on Friday, June 8 - the Friday of the DGLO. (If you want to bring something, let me know by email: splendid@umich.edu.)

You can play our private course, the BRATS Course, http://www.pdga.com/course/courses_by_city.php?id=1923, which is in the best shape it's ever been thanks to hard work by Ben Calhoun and Nic Spitler. (Most of the tank-sized rose bushes are gone!)

Mapquest or GoogleMaps us at "5171 Waters Road, Ann Arbor, MI 48103": Ben's cell phone is 734.883.4408, mine is 734.883.4407.

Well it has happened, Am. 1 field is FULL. Waiting list can be done by emailing padtimmons@comcast.net. We will be calling anybody that gets added by Friday of next week, we will not be adding anyone on Saturday morning.
We are allowing more Am. Women to sign up, as the Am. Grandmasters did not fill.

Pad

Am. 1 please include Name, phone # and PDGA # when emailing padtimmons@comcast.net for waiting list for DGLO.

Peace,

Pad

Mail in Registration is now closed we have picked up the final letters from the PO Box. Registration can only be done by on line registrattion at this time. All Pro divisions and Am.Women and Am. Masters are still open. Register at www.a3disc.org (http://www.a3disc.org)

The final clearing on the Original and the Monster course at Hudson Mills is now completed and they look really good.
I want to thank Jonny V. and Tod More for all the hard work they do on these courses, as well as all the Metro Park People. The Toboggan just received its last mowing and a new coat of rain which will really greened up the place.
How far can you throw off the steep hill on #3 Toboggan? 400ft., 500ft....600ft............?

Come on up to Michigan the summers are beautiful.

Peace,

Pad
Sign up at a3disc.org

Hi Pad,

When will the Friday tee times be posted?

-- ABee

I don't speak for Pad, however I would imagine Thursday night after check-in closes.

OK, I was trying to do some planning but I guess that won't be possible.

I have a request for the first round 'random' pairings. I request that you do not make the mistake they did in Bowling Green and arrange the first round cards by player rating. If we don't give the 'lower' end pros a chance to play with the 'higher' end pros then we will continue to see the poor growth in our PRO fields.

It is well know that playing with better players will improve the round you are playing (and also future rounds). Why give the top players the advantage of playing with the other top players from day 1? They are going to play together after the cards are shuffled anyway. Why not even the playing field for the first round?

In my first round at BG this year I had 2 local AMs on my card that decided to play in the OPEN tournament in additon to the AM tourney the previous week. It was a big dissapointment to travel accros the country to play an NT, and not even be at the same course as the players I was competing against.

BTW. Last year DGLO first rounds were awesome so I assume this year will be also. I just wanted to through this point out there. I think the pro field would grow alot quicker if there was more opportunity for new pros to play with established pros, other than shooting lights out...

By the way, for those not yet sure about playing this coming weekend. Given all the rain yesterday and today I was thrilled to see the current forecast for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday has only a 10 percent chance of rain! Keeping my fingers crossed.

Is Geoff Bennett playing this tournament?

All Pros need to sign in on Thurs. and pick up there information book, if you do not check in on Thurday 4-8pm, you will not have a t-time for Friday. We will have drop zones on some of the long down hill shots instead of teeing off from the top again. I do not have the list with me now. We will have t-times available by end of sign in for all players. I just saw that Robbie Bratten from Houston just signed up, anybody want to see a two on hole 3, he could be the man to do it.

Peace,

Pad
DGLO TD

All Pros need to sign in on Thurs. and pick up there information book, if you do not check in on Thurday 4-8pm, you will not have a t-time for Friday. We will have drop zones on some of the long down hill shots instead of teeing off from the top again. I do not have the list with me now. We will have t-times available by end of sign in for all players. I just saw that Robbie Bratten from Houston just signed up, anybody want to see a two on hole 3, he could be the man to do it.

Peace,

Pad
DGLO TD



He is staying at my house for this tournament and it doesnt matter cuz I have already taken a 2 on that hole!!! LMFAO

But what about a 2 on hole 13??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Pad im still trying to scrape up some last minute cash to pay my entry is there a deadline that I have to pay by or whats the deal with that???

Is Geoff Bennett playing this tournament?



Hey MC,
He an Boro are on tour together. My guess is, the answer is yes. ;) They are making plenty of money to keep on "Truckin" :cool:

Geoff's side arm is AWESOME :p

I'd expect Geoff to be primed and pumped for this one. I'm guessing he puts together some great rounds for a break-out victory.

Gotta be hopeful for the homies.

Joe

Steve and other Pros, You can still sign up Thursday afternoon if you want to play. We will only accept cash at that time as we need to have all checks cleared or payout will not clear either. So Cash only on Thursday sign up.
Also Robbie may be able to ace this hole, Steve?

Ill be picking him up thursday morning and taking him straight to the Toboggan as he has never played it before!!! I would say he will likely have putts on 13 for 2 both rounds if he is throwing anywhere near as far as I know he can :eek: :eek: :eek: But the real question for the Toboggan is can he keep it in the FAIRWAY!!! Only time will tell and it looks like ill be paying cash on thursday night!!!

does anyone know a local am named jimmy burns? if so could you give me his #?
thanks,
david h. nashville

heartless david harless!!! is that you buddy.

jimmy bates. that is

bard!

it is me

you guys sellin floor space?

I just saw that Robbie Bratten from Houston just signed up, anybody want to see a two on hole 3, he could be the man to do it.



More than one possible deucer on that hole: When Ben and I played Toboggan a couple of weeks ago, his second shot on hole 3 smashed the chains hard and dead center but fell out. :cool:

sjur?

what do you locals think will be the HOT round at Toboggan? anything in the high 40's?

50. 48-49 in perfect conditions and no missed putts by a 425+ (real not message board distance) driving machine that can put 'em in the fairway.

Agreed! You need a big arm to even be considered for a 48-50 range. played am nat's last year and the best i could do (counting warmups) was a 60 and i only made a couple mistakes. i am by no means a top pro but i cant wait to see their scores on that beast of a course! im calling a 49 as the HOTTest round

51 I bet.

is there any kind of bounty out there for someone shooting below 50 in a tourney or league setting?

What happens if you are a pro that can't make the Thursday check-in because you are flying in to DTW late Thursday night(early friday morning)?

What happens if you are a pro that can't make the Thursday check-in because you are flying in to DTW late Thursday night(early friday morning)?



Better give Discraft a call tomorrow and speak with Pad Timmons. I've seen posted that if Pros do not check in Thursday night they will not have a tee time Friday morning.

I feel that there is a way this can be worked out. It is beyond my control that I cannot be there Thursday for Check-in. I am a regular to Michigan tournaments so my word should be sufficient for my Friday Attendence.

Call Pad Timmons. You should be able to do that.
248-624-2250 x42

The final grass cutting at Toboggan widened the fairway on a couple of holes. On hole 2 they mowed an extra 30 feet left of the fairway for a bigger short grass landing zone for the righty's that hyzer out. Hole 3 was nice too bcuz they mowed the area between 3's and 13's fairway which was 3 feet high. I think it is much easier to get a 3 from this area now with a better runup.

Otherwise I don't think there was anything too significant. I played a round with Todd White yesterday and he also confirmed that there will be a painted 10m circle on the Toboggan course for DGLO. I hope they can do that at Hudson too because the bricks just don't cut it. Man am I looking forward to this weekend...

Many more Pros are signing up you can still register at www.a3disc.org (http://www.a3disc.org) untill tonight and you can also sign up tomorrow at Kensington from 4-8pm.

Pad Timmons
TD

I will be out on the course all day, so if anyone needs to contact me please call 734-646-2974, which is my cell.
See you there.

Pad
DGLO TD

Bear Claw Coffee will be at Hudson Mills Saturday morning around 6:30 AM if anybody needs an extra kick to start the body working in the morning. See everybody there.

Remember we are still looking for spotters at HM saturday and sunday, I don't know if Kensington is searching for spotters or not if they do i am sure they will let you know here.

thanks
see everyone there.

...would have liked to play in this one again. Entry fees are too rich for my Polish blood.

Conditions are going to be partly brutal tomorrow with high winds and t-storms.

Too rich? They are cheaper than last year and at the minimum for pro per the PDGA.

Okay...$132 for 3 rounds of golf? Are you serious? This game is turning into ball and stick golf; fullly-equipped with yuppy scum.

I guess i figured out where you get your name!

Okay...$132 for 3 rounds of golf? Are you serious? This game is turning into ball and stick golf; fullly-equipped with yuppy scum.



Entry fees across the country are RIDICULOUS!

Especially when you consider 3 day tourneys. A day off work which cost me $150....3 days in a hotel $200....3 days of food $100....Gas $3/gallon....$130 entry fee

$600+ bones to go play a tourney.......got to finish in the top 4 to get your money back.....it's not worth it

3 day tourney's suck

...just wait until you add the cost of diapers and formula to the equation.

Entry fees across the country are RIDICULOUS!





Don't leave out our neighbors up north......I was planning a trip to Toronto to play Masters in the CO before I saw this. (http://www.discanada.org/ontariodiscgolf/2007canadianopen.html) :confused:

...just wait until you add the cost of diapers and formula to the equation.



I don't understand...

...just wait until you add the cost of diapers and formula to the equation.



I don't understand...



Kev will need to win the event to break even once little-Mack arrives. :D

...just wait until you add the cost of diapers and formula to the equation.



I don't understand...



Kev will need to win the event to break even once little-Mack arrives. :D



You missed my point... :D

You have to figure in the Canadian conversion

$200 Canadian is the same as $30 US dollars, 24 aluminum cans, and five chickens equals entry fee paid.

Can someone bring me some round bacon?

:D

Hilarious... :D

I'm torn about the 3-day events, when I go to an event and it's about the destination as much as it is about DG, I like spreading it out... However, that is the exception, on average 2-day events are much better IMO, and given the choice, I'd love to see more 1-day B tiers.

Scores are filtering in....

I dont think 1 day events prove who the better golfers are...if you look at the difference between local players and traveling pros, you will see more seperation over two days...After one day there are always a couple local boys in the top spots...However, after the second day, they are down out of the top ten....Not always, but a majority of the time.

wonder if the rating will be brought up, or brought down as everyone comes in.

Did Cale not end up showing for DGLO? I wonder why his score isn't up but he no longer has a tee time either.

Cale is in with a -6....1 stroke out of 1st

Yep...15 minutes later it was updated, carry on, carry on...

did open play Toboggan or Monster first round?

Tobo

why were the ratings so much higher for the pro's this year that last year AM Nats?

Devan Owens 3 off the lead...keep it together big fella!!

Good first round Robbie, keep it up...

Back "off" topic... I agree with you about the 2-day tournies separating locals from touring players... which is why I think the one days are better suited for B-tiers or below where the tourney is populated with mostly local/regional folks anyway.

Devan Owens 3 off the lead...keep it together big fella!!



Good to see that. Hes a good kid and had a rough weekend in Minnesota.

Peter Shive and Terry Calhoun are duking it out, Terry said he wouldn't go down without a fight. Both are well below their ratings though, it must be a long course!

Terry played at or above his skill level. The course heavily favors the player who can throw right and left turning shots 350-400. That isn't Terry's game. I guess it isn't Peter's game either. Tomorrow they play Monster Longs. Then Tobbogan on Sunday.

Go Terry!

Back "off" topic... I agree with you about the 2-day tournies separating locals from touring players... which is why I think the one days are better suited for B-tiers or below where the tourney is populated with mostly local/regional folks anyway.





I like the idea of SuperTours and All Majors going to a three day format. I think in most cases you could do 2 rounds on Saturdays, allowing the Am field in then and on Sundays.

I think in the future, most SuperTour events will have a course that can only do one round a day, but most places arent that far ahead of the curve where one day couldnt have 2 rounds.

I understand that hosting upwards of 15 tourneys a year on the three day format would hurt the field, as not everyone that tours can afford that extra day, every time. I do think it would expand public views about this game and the caliber player a Touring Pro is. I also dont think its going to hurt the event overall, as most TDs dont worry about Pros being there anyways,( with the exception of the largest events, then they can be viewed as a draw.) and the vendors surely dont care. If the Ams came as they would and started on Saturday, the events going to basically go the same. It then becomes an issue of payout and added cash, with alot of it, Pros will show.

I plan to suggest this format to our local TD Chad Eng, who runs the River City Rumble. West Lake is just too much for 2 rounds in one day, and in some cases 3 days is too much golf for the non-Pro field. Id love to see the Pros play there once on Friday, 2 rounds at Middle on Saturday, and then back to West Lake for one round Sunday and the Finals. By next year though, we'll probably just have another once-a-day course to go along with West Lake.

Sorry. I know thats a long drift.

Devan Owens 3 off the lead...keep it together big fella!!






he had a sick birdie putt on hole 12 today, 1 of the only two out there

why were the ratings so much higher for the pro's this year that last year AM Nats?



/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif You didnt have any 1000 rated players at AM nationals did ya.. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

:confused: :( :p

Looks like your running out of snow there Mike, must be time to just golf!

deeglow pro appears to be locked and loaded for live scoring...

I'd just like to say... Nice first round Barsby!...
You can do it....

Please note, because of the weird AM format, ratings won't be exact until we get the layouts fixed.

For the AMs, not the PROs

I'd just like to say... Nice first round Barsby!...
You can do it....



Hes another good kid. Great Shooting !

Looks like your running out of snow there Mike, must be time to just golf!



Heres a Question for ya....

How many holes at the LAVA LAUNCH can you see in that picture.. ;)

/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif :D

Go Blakely!

Go Blakely!

Nice ace on the top card for Cory. That's gotta be good stuff. On video?

Has anyone seen pro tee times for tomorrow? Kira would like to caddy again but doesn't know when the Pro Masters and Pro Women are teeing off.

Tee times can be found here (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=6270)

Please note, because of the weird AM format, ratings won't be exact until we get the layouts fixed.

For the AMs, not the PROs



I added the Am pool information, so the ratings should be correct. Thanks Todd for uploading the scores!

Des aced #10 today as well. 355 ft, but plays at about a 370 ft hyzer. NICE :D

Great BBQ at Brooke's tonight. Some intense badmitten. How can anyone compete against the Wyngard / Yeti combo? Combined wingspan of over 13 feet :eek:

Thanks Bill!
That 4:50am alarm to get to the course @ 6am didn't do my brain any good. :D

Des aced #10 today as well. 355 ft, but plays at about a 370 ft hyzer. NICE :D





sick ace D.R.!

which course do thye still have left to play?

Come on Blakely. Time to get that first NT win!

which course do thye still have left to play?



Sunday
Pro's - Kensington Toboggan Course
Am 1 Men - Hudson Mills Monster Course Long to Regular Baskets
Am Master - Hudson Mills Monster Course Short
Am 1 Women - Hudson Mills Original Course Short

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOO! lead card of a national tour and we had 2 spectators, sick.




I love the way everything is coming along.

lead card of a national tour and we had 2 spectators, sick.




People follow and watch the players they care about watching on whatever card they might be...

why were the ratings so much higher for the pro's this year that last year AM Nats?



Cause the more higher rated players there are, will bring the ratings up. Whether Chuck says otherwise or not, it's true.

Cause the more higher rated players there are, will bring the ratings up. Whether Chuck says otherwise or not, it's true.




Yep. True half the time...

yeah, unless a low rated player has a hot round, then Chuck adjusts it because obviously weather and luck had a great role in the scoring that day....

We never look at individual scores except to drop them or add them to the record books.

LIVE scoring for the women is up now here. (http://pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=6270&year=2007&incl udeRatings=1#Open) :D

Scores are starting to come in....

Cause the more higher rated players there are, will bring the ratings up. Whether Chuck says otherwise or not, it's true.




Yep. True half the time...



OK Chuck, If it isnt true, then do a little "Test"

Take the A or B pool from Beaver State Fling....REMOVE all 1000+ players from the equation and recalc the ratings... ;)

What do you come up with?? a 10-15 point DROP in ratings.. :p Why is that??? :confused:

:eek:

Bring it home Blakely!!!!!!

You can always find specific examples of data. However, when we did a comprehensive look at this when we truly had apples to apples comparisons, the difference was no more than 1 shot for a 100-point difference in average ratings between pools. That's now part of the formula so that any differences now are normal statistical variances with just as many rounds both over and under the average.

From a practical standpoint, there's no variance any more within an event because all rounds on the same course layout are combined to produce one set of numbers for everyone. The online unofficial calcs haven't been programmed yet to do that. So, when you see differences in unofficial ratings, they will disappear when calculated officially and produce numbers somewhere between the unofficial ones. The only exception to that is when there are different wind considitons between rounds, or on full day stagger start rounds when the wind changes significantly during the day and we break up the calcs by division groups.

The only variance we might not remove is when an am group plays a course one weekend and a pro group another weekend. Even with the adjustment built in, it's more likely the pro group will get slightly better ratings under the same conditions, but still less than 5% difference in SSA. That's because there's a higher percentage of ams that are underrated versus pros since more of their ratings are improving rather than stable.

Live scoring happening now for the top 2 cards in Open.

Here's a simpe test:

Have a tournament. Run the pros and advanced on the same course. Create a Course A and Course B profile. They are essentially the same course. Run the pros through one set, and the ams through another. The ratings will change dramatically. Merge them again and watch them change.

Markus got a 3 on hole 2 at Toboggan, that's SICK!!! Absolutely one of the hardest holes to 3. First drive will put you on the hill where you have to throw a steep uphill shot of about 350 feet with essentially no run up to a blind basket over the ridge. the hill also adds difficulty with wind to toughen the green for putts.

You can always find specific examples of data. However, when we did a comprehensive look at this when we truly had apples to apples comparisons, the difference was no more than 1 shot for a 100-point difference in average ratings between pools. That's now part of the formula so that any differences now are normal statistical variances with just as many rounds both over and under the average.

From a practical standpoint, there's no variance any more within an event because all rounds on the same course layout are combined to produce one set of numbers for everyone. The online unofficial calcs haven't been programmed yet to do that. So, when you see differences in unofficial ratings, they will disappear when calculated officially and produce numbers somewhere between the unofficial ones. The only exception to that is when there are different wind considitons between rounds, or on full day stagger start rounds when the wind changes significantly during the day and we break up the calcs by division groups.

The only variance we might not remove is when an am group plays a course one weekend and a pro group another weekend. Even with the adjustment built in, it's more likely the pro group will get slightly better ratings under the same conditions, but still less than 5% difference in SSA. That's because there's a higher percentage of ams that are underrated versus pros since more of their ratings are improving rather than stable.



If the "specific examples of data" your talking about is EVERY A-Tier & above then Ill agree.

Im NOT talking about comparisions between pools, OR Ams & Pros...Only 1000+ rated or NOT, that are playing the same course at the same time, as with the BSF..

If a "formula" provides DIFFERENT results by REMOVING the top players (in this case ANYONE rated 1000 or above)
Then it is FLAWED...period...
The number of TOP rated players should have NO effect on the results......but it does :p

Second card all 3ed the 905 foot 3rd hole too. impressive. That's a lot of good approaches.

(You'd think they might get Cale's name spelled correctly online)

He's a fellow Finn, they never spell our names right.

Just took the Open fields at the MN Majestic and DGLO which were both about 58 players with 17 having ratings of 1000+ at MM and 18 at DGLO. Here are the SSA calcs with and without the 1000+ players included:

Event All Open No 1000+ Diff
MnMj1 68.55 68.43 0.12
MnMj2 75.43 75.68 -0.25
MnMj3 66.57 65.98 0.59
DGLO1 58.92 58.66 0.26
DGLO2 70.94 71.18 -0.24

No benefit indicated. And even in the "worst" case, the SSA variance is less than 1%.

You can see the one glitch in online scoring that still needs to be reprogrammed. Players should be sorted based on their Current to Par values (like ball golf) not their Current Total values like it is currently. That's why Critter and Raley are popping into second place when they've played the same number of holes as the top group and then drop down to the second group once they've played another hole, even though they are really still in second place at that point.

How 'bout that 53 posted by Peter Wyngaard! What's the course record?

I don't know about you guys... but I love live scoring...
Thanks everyone who is making it happen!

Just so exciting ... Go Barsby!

Barsby can win this with a flick on 18, a big uphill lefty hyzer.
Nice comeback!

Go Gregg!

Playoff!

The anticipation is killing me!

Maybe Cale will win this week's playoff...if only he could throw one stroke better over 3 rounds he wouldn't have to keep having playoffs :)

Maybe Cale will win this week's playoff...if only he could throw one stroke better over 3 rounds he wouldn't have to keep having playoffs :)



Yeah, he hasn't been playing well lately. :D

Anyone know what holes they are playing in the playoff? In am nats they usually did 1, 17, 18 until somebody won it.

Leiviska Wins!!!

Looks like Cale must have won?

Somebody post some details, please!

Leiviska Wins!!!



:D:D:D:) :D :D

Yeah buddy, 1st NT win!!! 1st major is not too far off!

Good shooting for the upteenth straight tournament by Cale. I'll try to take him out next weekend at the High Plains Challenge in CO...

lead card of a national tour and we had 2 spectators, sick.



you didn't have Climo or Schultz there and Cale was on the second card. Hopefully there was more spectators for the final round and playoff.

Congrats to Cale on his first NT win!

Which holes were played in the playoff? Nice to see two team members battle it out in one of their sponsor's biggest events!

Lack of Spectators = All the Ams playin Hudson Mills, about 30 minutes South.

They played hole 1. Barsby threw first. It looked like a good drive but it stalled a little and skipped big left when it landed, leaving him 90 feet left of the basket. Cale threw a nice turn over that kept on turning and landed 15 to 20 feet right and short of the basket. Barsby missed the jump putt. Cale made his putt.

Scott Papa won Pro Master by one throw. Maybe not having to carry his bag up and down those hills saved him a throw? Who was that girl?

I think the thing with spectators was, who would go spectate on the Tobbogan, climbing all those hills? If the last round had been at the Monster, lots of people would have watched the last round. How many spectators do they get when they climb K2? :D

I think the thing with spectators was, who would go spectate on the Tobbogan, climbing all those hills? If the last round had been at the Monster, lots of people would have watched the last round. How many spectators do they get when they climb K2? :D



Sorry Bruce, it wasn't the course, it was how they scheduled rounds. Hundreds of spectators climbed HSSA last week at the MN Majestic...they got to see "the putt" as well.

http://discgolftv.com/dgtv/223/1/10

When Barsby posted that comment about 2 spectators, they had just played the Monster, not Toboggan.

The Pro playoff was at the Monster? Guess we'd taken off by then. I assumed any and all pro ceremonies would be at Toboggan where they'd played, and took off after Am awards were given figuring nothing left to do there. Thats what I get for not reading the Pro schedule of events in the players guide. :( Stupid Woj.

Barsby commented about the lack of spectators after the second round at Monster, not today.

But did those spectator's pony up $5 each for that Ace?!

Wow! A major tourney on one of the coolest courses in the USA and 5 people watched???

I will be honest -- I miss photographing tournies and plan on returning to the sport full time in 2008.... I can not register for this years Worlds because the area I work in Michigan is closing several prisons and I am being transferred July 1st and THEN trying to get the 3rd week of July off will be tricky...

lead card of a national tour and we had 2 spectators, sick.




People follow and watch the players they care about watching on whatever card they might be...


I was also glad to see you chuck out supporting disc golf in the twin cities last week. pshh

lead card of a national tour and we had 2 spectators, sick.



you didn't have Climo or Schultz there and Cale was on the second card. Hopefully there was more spectators for the final round and playoff.

Congrats to Cale on his first NT win!

i could care less weather nobody watches or 500 people, but everyone is saying disc golf is moving forward, how can you say that when there are a total of 20 spectators on saturday.

I'm curious to see what happens to disc golf, maybe the pdga will get it on tv. THAT will be the day. real tv too not this local channel stuff.

Had an experience at a deli that sells discs Sunday, just outside the Toboggan course's park.

I was checking out with my sandwich lunch and the line put me right by the disc displays.

Half a dozen guys in their late teens were there, each with a couple of discs in his hand, eyes glazed over with lust as they fondled the plastic.

I said to them: "Hey, guys, some of the worlds top professional disc golfers are competing in the final round of a three-day tournament only five minutes away from here, entry to watch them is free."

They looked at me. One of them said "Okay," totally disinterestedly Then they went back to their discs.

There was a gallery on Sunday following the lead group, I would say 30-50 people in the early parts of the round, and closer to 80-100 towards the end when the other players were all done.

like woj said the AM's who would normally know enough and care enough to check it out were playing in their own thing at a different location...logistics might've played a part in a lack of gallery

looking forward to the AM results posting sometime today

I want to thank Pad Timmons, Todd White, and the rest of the DGLO staff for a VERY smoothly run tournament. A minimal amount of waiting was the highlight of the weekend for me. It made a big difference actually being able to get into a rythem by playing hole after hole without the typical 10 minute wait between, especially on Monster. That is DEFINATELLY the only tournament I have EVER played at the monster with no wait on A, just step up and throw. I got a 3! I think half the reason I take a 4 or 5 on that hole in tournaments is due to the 20-30 minute wait that typically occurs.

I also love the concept of tee times!

Congrats to Cale for the WIN! I played the first round with him and told him he was going to win dispite his scheduling issues. I was right!!!

AM Results are now posted. A3 did not have internet access out at the course when I was not there. We'll work on that next year.

Thanks to all the players, sponsors, and volunteers! It was an enjoyable weekend.

Now Pad and I can gear up for that *little* tournament this weekend :eek:

How did Dave Feldberg earn more than G. Barsby with Barby losing a playoff for 1st and Feldberg two strokes out?

Because I'm tired and hit the wrong number.

Fixed.

Get some sleep Todd, you'll need it for this weekend!!!

How did Dave Feldberg earn more than G. Barsby with Barby losing a playoff for 1st and Feldberg two strokes out?



Get'em doot!

Barsby, you probably were out playing rather than reading my comments on spectators on the Ask Peter Shive thread last week. But I've copied the key parts below. I would rather play or build courses than watch such as last Sunday or any event. When I watch, usually it's to see how some of my hole designs are playing, and I don't care who those players are.

I'd also rather watch top GMs who have much better shot variety than most Open players including women and I might even be able to learn those shots. They are also more interesting characters and typically better interviews with perspective from the past. Baby boomers continue to be an important buying block (which ball golf recognizes) because they have the money to play and travel plus help get courses in the ground. So hot shot youngsters aren't particularly appealing to watch since most of us will never throw 500. And the attitudes and maturity of several younguns is definitely lacking such that people of any age would care about how they play let alone watch them.


The one elephant in the corner delaying our progress toward large purses is the fact that we haven't demonstrated the ability to draw paying spectators. We barely get any non-disc golf connected spectators watching free and some events "force" ams to stick around for a Final 9 before they can get their prizes, partly to boost spectating. We've made enough attempts in this area to indicate it's going to take growing our player base with more courses as part of the solution. I've been building courses since 1989 having recognized that fundamental issue early on. I think people who are interested in this sport would rather play than watch, given a choice. That's wonderful for the growth of the sport but not for purses since that's the fundamental thing that drives sponsorship and larger purses - spectators.

Until a successful model for drawing spectators is developed, this will be a great amateur participation sport with our best players mostly swapping each other's money. The sport can still be huge in that regard but those making the money in an amateur participation sport will be making gear, selling it and teaching players. And Climo plus a handful of others will still make some money with signature discs.

Thanks to all that ran a fantastic event! I said this over at the A3 board but I can't say it enough! Most fun I've had playing golf all year, hands down (well, outside of my crummy putting ha). Best part: we had a MAJOR logjam form up on Hole D, really getting ugly with a three card backup forming... and within five minutes of that happening a spotter showed up!

Really on the ball everywhere.

Woj, the PRO finals were at the Toboggan not Hudson Mills.
We are all glad that you enjoyed it. The spotter on E told us players were complaining about the Backup on D Sunday so I and the spotter coordinator came out to help break that up.

I hope everybody enjoyed yourself at the 2007 DGLO. let me know if i can address any concerns for anybody or you have suggestions. I would prefer either email or PM please.
cyferban@aol.com
William Gilbert
President of A3 Disc
Hope to see you all next year.

I would like to thank everyone who was involved in any way with the Discraft Great Lakes Open (DGLO), whether in planning, preparing, or actually volunteering at it, of course lets not forget all the entrants who played in the event. Excuse me when I forgot anybody please.
Doug and Mary Egbert, Nicola & Becky Gilbert, Bill Brady, Mark Piotrowski, Jack Mosier, Steve Peck, Pad Timmons, Randy Carruthers, Johnny V., Tod More, Dave Dye. The local 101 for cleaning up the course and course maintenance, all the spotters of whom I don�t have any of there names, Tod White, Scott White, the Laceys, Al H., sorry I don�t know how to spell Al�s last name, I also don�t know who all assisted at the Toboggan course. I know Mike Raley was helping there Sunday and other people. Jim Kenner of discraft Randy Richards, and Brian Sullivan of discraft, everybody else at Discraft who helped with preparation details. Please forgive me for all the people I forgot to mention.

I would also like to thank the sponsors of this event. What would we do without Discraft, the Metroparks (Kimberly, Jerry, & Barb at HM), CJ�s, J-Bird, Arbor Springs, Am Nationals, the PDGA, Local 101, Ashley�s, Portage Lake Trading Post, DGA, Arbor Serve, and the Kalamazoo K�Aces. Remember everybody support our sponsors; take advantage of services unique to each of these sponsors whenever possible. Don�t be afraid to just talk to them and thank them for either the time they spent or the donations they made. Without our sponsors and volunteers the DGLO wouldn�t be possible.

Thanks to everyone
William Gilbert
President of A3 Disc

The mystery Al would have been PDGA #5870, Al Haaksma.

I too thought the courses looked great, the spotters were excellent and the amateur payouts were very generous. I thought the little thing in the Am Master pool was handled well also. ;)

Nice ace on the top card for Cory. That's gotta be good stuff. On video?



I was one of the two spectators during the second round watching the lead card and witnessed Cory's hole 16 ACE. It was SICK!!! I meant to bring my camera but left it in the backseat of my car hustling out to the course :( It was a sweet shot to watch though :cool:

Romine also aced 11 on the Toboggan, aslo a very sick shot to witness...

Thanks bruce i know his name but not how to spell it.

DGLO was a nicely run and organized event this year, thanks Pad! One thing in particular this event did better than most was have a ton of volunteer spotters, wow, thanks to you all! The courses were also very well groomed (just wish the Toboggon had tee signs with distances on Thursday's practice day).
We have made it to every DGLO since we started playing and came here for Worlds in 2000 . In light of this year's event and after talking with other players I would like to recall the things that we used to love about the DGLO. It is easy to armchair TD and I am not quite sure of the A3 and Discraft split of duties as that seems to change year to year, but alas, this event has had stronger years and has seen decline in status as one of the best NT's. No offense intended, just feedback :p

THINGS WE USED TO LOVE ABOUT D-GLO:
--Jumbo Toss
--Players Party / Fly Mart under the big top Saturday evening
--Beer Sponsor
--Players lunches on site (Just Am's the last two years)
--Players Packages for all (Usually some unique D-Craft disc)
--Final Nine Skins Match (Mark Ellis on megaphone, classic)
--Ams and Pros being together for some portion of the tournament
--Over the Top Added Cash
--Large gallery of spectators for the last day

[QUOTE]
Barsby, you probably were out playing rather than reading my comments on spectators on the Ask Peter Shive thread last week. But I've copied the key parts below. I would rather play or build courses than watch such as last Sunday or any event. When I watch, usually it's to see how some of my hole designs are playing, and I don't care who those players are.

I'd also rather watch top GMs who have much better shot variety than most Open players including women and I might even be able to learn those shots. They are also more interesting characters and typically better interviews with perspective from the past. Baby boomers continue to be an important buying block (which ball golf recognizes) because they have the money to play and travel plus help get courses in the ground. So hot shot youngsters aren't particularly appealing to watch since most of us will never throw 500. And the attitudes and maturity of several younguns is definitely lacking such that people of any age would care about how they play let alone watch them. [QUOTE]


This is exactly the reason why disc golf needs to be shown to CHILDREN ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES. IF DISC GOLF DOESN'T GET NATIONAL TELEVISION COVERAGE IT WILL TAKE DECADES.

I am sure you're not talking about me chuck, being that I was soaking wet playing one of worst rounds of my life half way across the country, you would have been treated to a clinic of sportsmanship and courtesy despite all conditions. I don't think you know how that feels either.

I think you, Chuck Kennedy, Need to be at every disc golf tournament helping staff as you can, would the pdga not pay you? I think you have done an injustice to the game of disc golf by being an active member of the "PDGA BOARD", or whatever it is you do for the PDGA. and not to show up at a HUGE tournament sets a bad example. I want to see disc golf go somewhere, but at this pace who knows if it ever will.

I don't know about you, but i'm going to do everything I can to make this game the phenomenon it should be.

Are you Chuck?

I am sure you're not talking about me chuck, being that I was soaking wet playing one of worst rounds of my life half way across the country, you would have been treated to a clinic of sportsmanship and courtesy despite all conditions. I don't think you know how that feels either.



Been there done that....last year Marshall St, It was supposed to be August and a **** Noreaster comes in with hard rain and temps in the 50's yuk!!!! I think they are still adding up my score, everyone loved that my girl beat me...... :)

Greg,

I can understand your frustration with Chuck's opinion but he does a lot for our game. Not everyone sees the time he puts into the ratings and course design but he is puting in his time and effort into making the game we love better.





By the way, Nice shooting at GLO! See ya in Rock Hill, hopefully not every round again though, quit shooting the same score as me. j/k ;) :D:cool:

GB: This is exactly the reason why disc golf needs to be shown to CHILDREN ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES. IF DISC GOLF DOESN'T GET NATIONAL TELEVISION COVERAGE IT WILL TAKE DECADES.
CK: My Skillshot game is one of the key components of EDGE so I've done my part in this area. There's a new EDGE DVD that's another step in the right direction.

GB: I am sure you're not talking about me Chuck, being that I was soaking wet playing one of worst rounds of my life half way across the country, you would have been treated to a clinic of sportsmanship and courtesy despite all conditions. I don't think you know how that feels either.
CK: With Kaposia in my backyard, I've had several rounds there in a downpours over the years including hail when I had one of my lowest rated rounds.

GB: I think you, Chuck Kennedy, need to be at every disc golf tournament helping staff as you can, would the PDGA not pay you? I think you have done an injustice to the game of disc golf by being an active member of the "PDGA BOARD", or whatever it is you do for the PDGA and not to show up at a HUGE tournament sets a bad example. I want to see disc golf go somewhere, but at this pace who knows if it ever will.
CK: I'm not on the Board and do some contract work for the PDGA and would be fine going around to big events more than I do if the PDGA could fund it. I was part of the Thursday night Meet The Pros clinic for the Majestic and visited Hyland (designed the original 18) on Saturday to vist with the Ams and drop off fliers for the Pro Worlds Warm-Ups to help raise money for Pro Worlds. I also helped Adam get the online stats and ratings done properly during the event. I've worked more than played the Majestic over 18 years.

GB: I don't know about you, but I'm going to do everything I can to make this game the phenomenon it should be. Are you Chuck?
CK: I think I've done more than my share for 18 years and am continuing to do so. You'll get to see some more of it at Pro Worlds.

I still need a partner for Mixed. Any help appreciated.

You can always try our Rooms, Rides and doubles partners Yahoo site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PW07RoomRide

GB: This is exactly the reason why disc golf needs to be shown to CHILDREN ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES. IF DISC GOLF DOESN'T GET NATIONAL TELEVISION COVERAGE IT WILL TAKE DECADES.
CK: My Skillshot game is one of the key components of EDGE so I've done my part in this area. There's a new EDGE DVD that's another step in the right direction.

GB: I am sure you're not talking about me Chuck, being that I was soaking wet playing one of worst rounds of my life half way across the country, you would have been treated to a clinic of sportsmanship and courtesy despite all conditions. I don't think you know how that feels either.
CK: With Kaposia in my backyard, I've had several rounds there in a downpours over the years including hail when I had one of my lowest rated rounds.

GB: I think you, Chuck Kennedy, need to be at every disc golf tournament helping staff as you can, would the PDGA not pay you? I think you have done an injustice to the game of disc golf by being an active member of the "PDGA BOARD", or whatever it is you do for the PDGA and not to show up at a HUGE tournament sets a bad example. I want to see disc golf go somewhere, but at this pace who knows if it ever will.
CK: I'm not on the Board and do some contract work for the PDGA and would be fine going around to big events more than I do if the PDGA could fund it. I was part of the Thursday night Meet The Pros clinic for the Majestic and visited Hyland (designed the original 18) on Saturday to vist with the Ams and drop off fliers for the Pro Worlds Warm-Ups to help raise money for Pro Worlds. I also helped Adam get the online stats and ratings done properly during the event. I've worked more than played the Majestic over 18 years.

GB: I don't know about you, but I'm going to do everything I can to make this game the phenomenon it should be. Are you Chuck?
CK: I think I've done more than my share for 18 years and am continuing to do so. You'll get to see some more of it at Pro Worlds.

I hope your courses can be shown on ESPN, in front of millions of veiwers. I really do hope they are photogenic, from what I heard they are in the woods, and woods aren't exactly what people want to see anymore. the mass appeal of disc golf WANTS to see long shots, with par 4's and 5's.
Maybe you can approach ESPN yourself and let them know, that the over 50 aged bracket called "Grandmasters", have much better shot selection, and how you, Chuck Kennedy should be on ESPN instead of the youth of the sport who, are devoting their lives to this game and actually have TRUE SKILL. I'm not talking just for myself either, I talk to all the young players on tour and I'm just the one who is advocating the change.

by the way, grandmasters sounds like some name out of a Magic. "The Gathering" card deck.

HAHAHAAHA

What "advances the game"?

Is it players that dedicate themselves to playing and improving their skills and becoming unbelievably good disc golfers? And truly I do mean mind-bogglingly good. Does that advance the sport of disc golf, or does it merely advance the personal game of the individuals doing it?

Or does "advancing the game/sport" mean increasing visibility of the sport, increasing the number of courses in the ground, increasing the number of people playing the game and increasing the number of people who consider it a sport, and increasing the payouts at the big tournaments?

From my position, I think it is without questions number two above. But I've met quite a few of the number one group who think that they are advancing the sport simply by becoming ridiculously good disc golfers.

GB: I hope your courses can be shown on ESPN, in front of millions of viewers. I really do hope they are photogenic, from what I heard they are in the woods, and woods aren't exactly what people want to see anymore.
CK: The courses being played by Open at Highbridge are 10%, 30% and 50% wooded, more open than Dela and just as good views. Take the picture tour on the Worlds website if you haven't done so. And the Final 9 venue will be excellent for spectators and videographers, almost all in the open. Since our sport doesn't yet have a base of spectators I'm not sure who doesn't want to see woods holes anymore?

GB: the mass appeal of disc golf WANTS to see long shots, with par 4's and 5's.
CK: I'd say they want good shots on par 4s and 5s. Doesn't do any good to throw long if it's not on line or near the hole. Although I think some of the top grandmasters (not me) have the skills to get out of trouble better than the young guys. Every course at Highbridge has at least one par 5 and several 4s.

GB: Maybe you can approach ESPN yourself and let them know, that the over 50 aged bracket called "Grandmasters", have much better shot selection, and how you, Chuck Kennedy should be on ESPN instead of the youth of the sport who, are devoting their lives to this game and actually have TRUE SKILL.
CK: Youth might have true power but have a ways to go to demonstrate true skill. "Old men" Climo and Schultz can still school the youngsters on courses where power and skill are better balanced than just wide open crushes. Grandmaster Dave Greenwell whipped the youngsters in Skillshot at Worlds last year and several other low PDGA number players were in the top ten so don't talk about your skill until you dominate that part of the game. They learned all of the shots when golf discs were still Frisbees. ESPN knows where the buying power is for those who watch golf and it's not youth. Disc golf is more like golf than it is like X-game sports and it will be even more expensive to properly cover it on TV as well as golf events. I don't ever see youth taking the time to watch disc golf on TV in the numbers that would justify advertising revenue. They don't watch much TV as it is. If anything, they'll watch free clips on the internet but that's not been shown to be a big revenue engine.

I'm sure that if Gregg Barsby and other 20-yr.olds are as rude and disrespectful to ESPN as he is to Chuck Kennedy and others here on the message board, ESPN will be positively jumping at the bit to air them. http://www.bearclaws.org/forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

I don't ever see youth taking the time to watch disc golf on TV in the numbers that would justify advertising revenue. They don't watch much TV as it is. If anything, they'll watch free clips on the internet but that's not been shown to be a big revenue engine.



Please let me know where you get the idea that our youth doesn't watch much TV. Also, way to take a stab at DGTV...you are truly a class act Chuckles.

My comment about internet clips was in general and had nothing to with DGTV. I hope they/you are doing well. I was referring to the YouTube frenzy which has piles of sports clips including the one where I witnessed an ace that's on there.

More than one article in the past several years has lamented the difficulty at targeting ads to consumers in the 18-24 age group via television. Here's just one study I found so it's not just a vague opinion.

From Adweek
In a Forrester Research study of North American households' media habits, Gen Xers (age 27-40) reported spending more time per week watching TV than using the Internet, 11.2 hours vs. 9.5. Among Gen Yers (age 18-26), Internet time exceeded TV time, but by a relatively modest margin (12.2 hours vs. 10.6). In the older cohorts (i.e. baby boomers), TV time far exceeded Internet time.

AM Results are now posted.



Just to be clear . . . :cool: . . . and vain . . . note that the "Nic Spitler" who took first place in Advanced Ams is my son-in-law!

He graduates in December from the Detroit Center for Creative Arts with a degree in industrial design, and intends to design cool, unique furniture. Potential employers take note!