Here's just one study I found so it's not just a vague opinion.



Totally agree, Chuck. I am too busy in this trip to Washington Had breakfast with John Kerry today! I was in Vietnam and transported on Swift boats; Kerry was and is correct. to dig out the link, but Internet viewing for news will surpass television viewing for news among (average) all age groups within five years.

Gregg,

One thing to remember is that, in ball golf (and I know everyone hates the comparison), Tiger Woods is popular, not only because he can hit the ball a mile, but that he can knock it in from 200 yds, using a variety of shots. It certainly does not hurt that he has the ability to charm the media (and therefore the public) in situations, where others may not be as savvy.

All groups are important in their own way for the growth of the sport. As much as that is a cop-out and non-controversial answer
<ul type="square">
Those over 60 contribute as those who have been there
Those over 50 contribute by showing how to stay competitive as we all get older
Those over 40 contribute either by kicking the kids butts and teaching humility
Those over 30 contribute by either showing experience as well as transporting the future of the sport to events.
Those over 18 contribute by setting the bar for the future generations to hit.
Those under 18 contribute by keeping all of the other groups young and reminding us all at times that this is a game. (And to remind you kids that you will be old some day :D)
[/list]

If you are looking at what will grow the sport, get the kids involved, publicize it locally and, as more people become involved, National TV may follow. And finally, when you have the opportunity to publicize the sport, be an ambassador. Present a positive message and sell it as a family activity.

SEnk

My boy, Justin Verlander just no-hit one of the top NL teams tonight...and that makes me very happy.

Normally, I would be upset by the fact it was the Brewers that were no-hit, but since the Cubbies and Cards also lost, I am not as upset.

I would contend that they are not one of the NL's top teams. Even though they are leading the division, having lost 20 of their last 30 is still not what makes up a top team. Mind you, being the top of the bottom is not a bad thing in this case... :D

SEnk

I meant top in a literal sense; pretty cool seeing Cecil's offspring in the big leagues and leading the NL in dingers though. I respect the Brew-crew though; as a life-long Tigers fan residing in BEAUTIFUL Temperance, Michigan - I know how it feels to be on the bottom of the bottom for an extended period of time. TIGS!

I'm sure that if Gregg Barsby and other 20-yr.olds are as rude and disrespectful to ESPN as he is to Chuck Kennedy and others here on the message board, ESPN will be positively jumping at the bit to air them. http://www.bearclaws.org/forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif



hey dude you snore abnormaly loud...

k thanks nobody wants to hear you snore or talk.

Gregg,

One thing to remember is that, in ball golf (and I know everyone hates the comparison), Tiger Woods is popular, not only because he can hit the ball a mile, but that he can knock it in from 200 yds, using a variety of shots. It certainly does not hurt that he has the ability to charm the media (and therefore the public) in situations, where others may not be as savvy.

All groups are important in their own way for the growth of the sport. As much as that is a cop-out and non-controversial answer
<ul type="square">
Those over 60 contribute as those who have been there
Those over 50 contribute by showing how to stay competitive as we all get older
Those over 40 contribute either by kicking the kids butts and teaching humility
Those over 30 contribute by either showing experience as well as transporting the future of the sport to events.
Those over 18 contribute by setting the bar for the future generations to hit.
Those under 18 contribute by keeping all of the other groups young and reminding us all at times that this is a game. (And to remind you kids that you will be old some day :D)
[/list]

If you are looking at what will grow the sport, get the kids involved, publicize it locally and, as more people become involved, National TV may follow. And finally, when you have the opportunity to publicize the sport, be an ambassador. Present a positive message and sell it as a family activity.

SEnk



[edited due to profanity] all the guys who devoted their lives to the game when they were 20... 20 years ago are all old and angry cuz this game never went anywhere, i particulary don't want to work or be angry when i'm 40+..........................ever. Disc golf is my income, and i would like to see my income grow as well as all the disc golfers anywhere near my age would.

come on Chuck, you have an opinion just like everyone, and just like most of them in the &lt;300ft distance category, its a poor opinion, you don't see amature level golfers designing courses in pro golf. Do you? Look at pebble beach...JACK NICKLAUS. arguably the BEST golfer of all time.

you should get some pro opinions, maybe even a lesson.

but for real, a 1025 typer.
top 10

[QUOTE]
you don't see amature level golfers designing courses in pro golf. Do you? Look at pebble beach...JACK NICKLAUS. arguably the BEST golfer of all time.


Do you think that Jack Nicklaus designed Pebble Beach? Are you that poorly informed, or just a poor communicator?

come on Chuck, you have an opinion just like everyone, and just like most of them in the &lt;300ft distance category, its a poor opinion, you don't see amateur level golfers designing courses in pro golf. Do you? Look at pebble beach...JACK NICKLAUS. arguably the BEST golfer of all time.




Fortunately, I haven't been a sub 300 thrower except maybe my first year in the sport in 1989. In fact, like many players with new plastic, I'm throwing farther than ever. I'm no 400 ft thrower but I'm also not a gold level player. I'm right in the middle of the pack for blue level distance which is fortunately the skill level designed for most long tee layouts on public courses.

You have a lot to learn about course design as do many top players in ball and disc golf. The top ball golfers who have become designers seem to understand that. Designing well has nothing to do with how far you throw or drive. Most ball golf course designers were never champion golfers. Those that became designers like Nicklaus and Palmer studied under some of the best designers to learn their craft and boy did it open their eyes. Take a look at what Jack has to say about golf design from his website:

"Golf is primarily a game of precision, not power." Jack says, "It's a thinking man's game. That's what makes it fun." And his belief is that length in itself does not spell quality, let alone fun. All Nicklaus-designed courses demand that a golfer play powerfully only as an occasional variation from playing accurately and with finesse. "I want a player to use his brain, his guile and his courage much more than his muscles," says Jack. Tiger doesn't dominate Jack's gem at Muirfield during the Memorial because Tiger's accuracy isn't always the best.

So, arguably one of the longest hitters in his era believes power is only one part of the game not THE game as some might like it to be. That's also how I and several other experienced DG designers design our courses. Power can already be over rewarded in disc golf on almost every hole except short downhill par 3s where most dial back on a mid-range or putter. If you can make 300-375 ft shots all over the course with a rounder edge disc like a mid-range or even putter, and other players need to use more bladed discs like drivers, your power is already being rewarded on many shots other than drives during the round because you can use a slower more accurate disc.

Stokely, one of our longest throwers in his time, told me to never design holes for players like him who are distance freaks. He said design based on the distance of players in the top half of the skill level a set of tees is designed for, not just the top handful. He understood that he needed to be challenged beyond just raw power which he still could showcase on several holes. No designer wants to (or can) neutralize your power. We just feel that including accuracy, finesse, shot variety and course management to the mix is important so that players who win have demonstrated all of the skills in the game in addition to their awesome power.

Isn't Barsby the player who quit an event to avoid getting a low rated round?

Don't know about that, but I do know he was the one that whined on the message board during the Memorial that the rating system was flawed because he ruined his 23-round streak of 1000+ rated rounds after shooting 'only' a 994-rated round during a windy second round. http://www.bearclaws.org/forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

Isn't Barsby the player who quit an event to avoid getting a low rated round?



It seemed to have worked if he was trying to get a high rating.

Isn't Barsby the player who quit an event to avoid getting a low rated round?

Wasn't that Michelle Wie?

Isn't Barsby the player who quit an event to avoid getting a low rated round?



It seemed to have worked if he was trying to get a high rating.



It also shows how much respect he has for the game.

There have been more than one who have tanked or DNF'd a round to preserve their rating.

"challenged beyong RAW POWER......Play renny adn understand the Stan Design...He has created incredible courses where You have to throw far and accurate to score well...All courses should take into consideration the Charlotte courses when designing...Hornets and Renny are the best courses ever concieved, and you need 400+ distance to dominate them...Throwing far is not power issue..Its a pure form issue...Avery and leyva are two big guys who throw far, but they are not the only ones...Brinster, Jarvis, and others are small relatively skinny players that have pure form and therefore crush...You dont think Tiger is deisel do you? I hope not...He is a rail, and was bombing because he masterd pure form....It is a skill(contrary to popular belief) to throw over 400+..it is not just barbaric, as many small arms tend to think...All the FriZZaks throw far because we studied other players and worked off that and each other...Drive for show, putt for dough is silly...You cant putt if you're not close enough...

If you look into Gregs results you do not see any DNF's.

I'm guessing he didn't oversleep for an afternoon round at the 12th Vintage Cup that produced a 789 round that, of course, is dropped.

If you look into Gregs results you do not see any DNF's.



2005. King of the Lake.
He DNF'ed to avoid risking a round that might cost him the chance to break 1000.

so what?....

You dont think Tiger is deisel do you? I hope not...He is a rail,


Tiger maximizes everything that's been given him. His dedication to practice and developing form and his martial-art like speed are complemented by the fact that he's one of the strongest guys on tour as demonstrated by benching over 300 pounds.

You dont think Tiger is deisel do you? I hope not...He is a rail,


Tiger maximizes everything that's been given him. His dedication to practice and developing form and his martial-art like speed are complemented by the fact that he's one of the strongest guys on tour as demonstrated by benching over 300 pounds.



You should revise that statement . Tiger has EARNED everything he has , nothing has been given to him with the exception of a loving set of parents ...

Just my point...He has earned all his distance...It s a skill to throw far..dont forget that...And that was in the last couple of years that he began weightlifting...Everyone can throw far, they just dont understand how, and or they are too stuburn to change...There always seems to be so much angst by people who cant throw far...

come on Chuck, you have an opinion just like everyone, and just like most of them in the &lt;300ft distance category, its a poor opinion



I parked a 360-foot hole last night :DMonster Hole 16 Yellow. First time I got it in three years! (Just a note that the quoted belief above isn't a factor in my own credibility.)

Just my point...He has earned all his distance...It s a skill to throw far..dont forget that...And that was in the last couple of years that he began weightlifting...Everyone can throw far, they just dont understand how, and or they are too stuburn to change...There always seems to be so much angst by people who cant throw far...



second!

everyone can't throw far any more than everyone can dunk a basketball. while pure form goes a long ways there are additional factors such as flexibility and fast twitch muscle fibers that also dictate one's potential for distance. i would imagine that the jarvis' and brinster,etc have those qualities in abundance.

a friend of mine who went to view practice at augusta a couple of years back said tiger was one of the most ripped people he had ever seen.

everyone can't throw far any more than everyone can dunk a basketball. while pure form goes a long ways there are additional factors such as flexibility and fast twitch muscle fibers that also dictate one's potential for distance. i would imagine that the jarvis' and brinster,etc have those qualities in abundance.

a friend of mine who went to view practice at augusta a couple of years back said tiger was one of the most ripped people he had ever seen.



Within the problem lies the solution......

In plain english : HIT THE GYM

Throwing far isn't golf - it's throwing far. Despite the increases in disc technology, players aren't throwing any more accurately and in fact may be throwing less accurately due to the slippery plastic in today's discs. That's been shown in the hole scoring stats we've been tracking, most recently at the HOF IDGC opening.

Houck's two long par 3s at 375 (#7) and 370 (#9) had less than ideal scoring spread (fewer birdies and bogeys) as predicted by continuing to use the throwing distances measured in 2002 in the forecast. Holes longer than about 350 on level ground with average foliage will produce a poor scoring spread with Gold level players (rating 975+) shooting mostly threes even though most can throw farther than that. It's just like ball golf where par 3 lengths are set where players use no more than mid-range irons. If they are so long that a 3 or 5 wood is needed, the accuracy goes down such that few twos and mostly threes are scored.

dunking a basketball is different...Height and physical strength play a big role there..There are players in DG that look like they couldnt throw at ll and they explode off the tee...With a coach or a video camera on a tripod, everyone can throw far...Im not saying 500+, but i am saying 400...

Chuck , you know good and well that a 375 hole demanding accuracy, Gold level players will pick up their mids and punch it up the middle . Not all but most . Especially in the woods.

Those holes are not wooded corridors but have an average amount foliage. Especially on the 375 righty hyzer, there's lots of room (not Texas room :)) for a driver. Likewise, if the fariway is more wooded like #9, a designer naturally should reduce the length even more than the guidelines to make sure there are enough birdies. John was surprised at the lack of birds and I was curious to see if our guidelines needed to be updated. Looks like they're still just fine. It just reinforced the fact that players are not throwing any more accurately even if throwing longer. It's some par 4s and 5s that might need to be a little longer now.

I think distance is a learned skill as well. It does however help to be strong flexible and in great shape. Anyone who knew me back in 2004 and 2005 knows that I threw A LONG WAY!!! And those players still no me today and know that I have lost that form and I myself know that I am in horrible shape and have lost alot of strength as well. But the strength side of it was only half of my lost distance problem. Dave Feldberg took me to a field the other day before I dropped him at the airport after DGLO and fixed the form part of my distance lost. BOOM!!! I got 50 ft of extra distance in about 15 minutes and a few minor changes. Now its just up to me to start working out and get my strength back up to where it was any ill be throwing 75 and who knows maybe 100 ft further than I was throwing just 2 weeks ago!!!

Oh and as much as I hate to say it I agree with Chuck that golf isnt all about power and distance. Its about shot selection and accuracy. BUT I think there should be a few holes on every course where throwing LONG and ACCURATE is a big advantage.

Oh and Barsby is my boy so all of you lay off him and who cares if someone tanks a round to keep it out of their rating. If the rating were updated enough and done similar to a ball golf handicap no one would have to do that anyway!!!

come on Chuck, you have an opinion just like everyone, and just like most of them in the &lt;300ft distance category, its a poor opinion



I parked a 360-foot hole last night :DMonster Hole 16 Yellow. First time I got it in three years! (Just a note that the quoted belief above isn't a factor in my own credibility.)



Is that the one down the big hill before you cross the road? ;)

Oh and Barsby is my boy so all of you lay off him and who cares if someone tanks a round to keep it out of their rating. If the rating were updated enough and done similar to a ball golf handicap no one would have to do that anyway!!!



You take the good with the bad -- that's part of golf (or any competition). He's shown that quitting is an option during a bad round. That is not professional in any way, shape, or form.

Again, respect the game. Some days, the course wins. Take it, learn from it, and move on.

Wow. I didn't realize people were that crazy about these ratings. That's pretty lame.

Isn't Barsby the player who quit an event to avoid getting a low rated round?



isn't he THE player... ONLY ME!!! i'm the only one too, EVERYONE TAKE NOTE THAT I AM THE ONLY ONE.... haha

omg

"challenged beyong RAW POWER......Play renny adn understand the Stan Design...He has created incredible courses where You have to throw far and accurate to score well...All courses should take into consideration the Charlotte courses when designing...Hornets and Renny are the best courses ever concieved, and you need 400+ distance to dominate them...Throwing far is not power issue..Its a pure form issue...Avery and leyva are two big guys who throw far, but they are not the only ones...Brinster, Jarvis, and others are small relatively skinny players that have pure form and therefore crush...You dont think Tiger is deisel do you? I hope not...He is a rail, and was bombing because he masterd pure form....It is a skill(contrary to popular belief) to throw over 400+..it is not just barbaric, as many small arms tend to think...All the FriZZaks throw far because we studied other players and worked off that and each other...Drive for show, putt for dough is silly...You cant putt if you're not close enough...



THANK YOU FRIZZAK!!!!!!!!!! to clarify, i NEVER said "we should have long bomb holes".... just don't have stupid pointless holes....

and hornets nest is a perfect example of a course design. I actually played with stan my first round of Charlotte open last year and we chatted a bunch about design.

I'll design a course one day, and i will silence all you naysayers, so keep sayin what you wanna say......

Oh and Barsby is my boy so all of you lay off him and who cares if someone tanks a round to keep it out of their rating. If the rating were updated enough and done similar to a ball golf handicap no one would have to do that anyway!!!



You take the good with the bad -- that's part of golf (or any competition). He's shown that quitting is an option during a bad round. That is not professional in any way, shape, or form.

Again, respect the game. Some days, the course wins. Take it, learn from it, and move on.



haha this dude is a straight HATER!!!!!!!! how much do you want to play for? by the way i have been playing 14 out of my 20 years, so you tell me i need respect for the game?
i own the game its MY game.

Wow. <font color="blue"> personal attack deleted</font>