This is just to continue the Rating Update thread without having to constantly jump the dead pages.

Thanks for the update!! :D

Thanks (for the ratings and for the new thread)!

Thanks Chuck for the update

i thought someone posted something about their sister jumping 125 points but cant find it now...

Hey Chuck -- what are your and Rodney's favorite discs? I'm wondering what it would take to get my 5 best rounds doubled and my 3 worst rounds dropped? Don't make me pull out a 2001 USDGC Roc. :D

37 more and i'll be playing open!

My sister jumped about 125 points.

Hey Chuck -- what are your and Rodney's favorite discs? I'm wondering what it would take to get my 5 best rounds doubled and my 3 worst rounds dropped? Don't make me pull out a 2001 USDGC Roc. :D

comeon rob, that kinda bribery might have worked with the RC in getting rid of the 2MR, but chuck has far higher integrity. just shoot better in the next few events and you'll be there.

:o:eek: unless i thought i was sending that to Chuck as a PM [ :eek:], i was clearly kidding Chuck, who i respect (note that he supports the 2 meter rule being relegated to an option that must be turned on by a TD rather than some sort of force-fed rule forced down everyone's throat).

were you good-naturedly kidding the RC and do you respect them and the work they do for the PDGA?

Looks like Texas has a couple of new 1000-rated players...

Oh, and CWare's 957 means he can no longer move back down to MA1. :eek:

Oh, and CWare's 957 means he can no longer move back down to MA1

Like I ever would do that and discourage all the INT baggers from ever moving up !!! :D probably would send Ric Johnson running to rec.. :p but it does appear the salazar's well except Eric :D should be moving up. oh wait never mind I am sure worlds is coming sometime next year

just shoot better in the next few events and you'll be there.



oh sure -- throw that in my face /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

if skirting hard work and substituting disinformation for honesty works for our nation's top politician(s), why not for me :confused: :D

never mind, i don't want fake accolades /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Oh, and CWare's 957 means he can no longer move back down to MA1

Like I ever would do that and discourage all the INT baggers from ever moving up !!! :D probably would send Ric Johnson running to rec.. :p but it does appear the salazar's well except Eric :D should be moving up. oh wait never mind I am sure worlds is coming sometime next year



funny thing is, there is an am worlds every year!! :p

Fun with numbers:

5 of my top 10 rated rounds come from one course (and not my home course).
4 come from another course (still not the home course).

Must mean Live Oak and Conroe are lefty courses.... :D

(Best round on the home course--MacGregor--ranks 27th)

what are your and Rodney's favorite discs? I'm wondering what it would take to get my 5 best rounds doubled and my 3 worst rounds dropped?



First, Rodney hasn't been on the Ratings Committee for over a year.
And second, you think I actually have time to play?

(My friend, John Kretzschmar, from the Twin Cities has been doing over half the course layout work for processing ratings that Rodney used to do.)

Okay, okay. what are John's favorite discs, and what if i promised you course design omniscience and omnipotence? :p

were you good-naturedly kidding the RC and do you respect them and the work they do for the PDGA?

a) yes i was good-naturedly kidding the RC, b) i respect any person who give their time as a volunteer for the pdga, although c) i do not necessarily respect the fruits of their labor

Chuck,

I have sent you a message via contact. Please get back to me, thanks.

Jerry



what are your and Rodney's favorite discs? I'm wondering what it would take to get my 5 best rounds doubled and my 3 worst rounds dropped?



First, Rodney hasn't been on the Ratings Committee for over a year.
And second, you think I actually have time to play?

(My friend, John Kretzschmar, from the Twin Cities has been doing over half the course layout work for processing ratings that Rodney used to do.)

I relayed your message to Dave and Roger for correction in the next update.

Hey, Robbie. Nice rating. My 906 is gonna play 2 or 3 more Intermediates. See you at McGregor?

Thanks, Neal.

My first rating above 900. I played more than half of the 2005 year in Adv, though. I doubt I'll play down in MA2 ever again, even though my rating still permits it.

Not sure about McGregor yet...will depend on weather and work.

I relayed your message to Dave and Roger for correction in the next update.



Does this involve the TX 10 Finals? :confused:

For current rated rounds, I shot my record best, 1006 and worst, 861 (I missed the 1st hole :( ). And for the first time, my rating dropped. But Im not worried, I got more of those 4 digit rounds coming next year. :)

Does this involve the TX 10 Finals?



It was for this event: Texas 10 B-Tier Am event. Is that the same thing? I don't see Texas 10 Finals listed as an event that was done.

Does this involve the TX 10 Finals?



It was for this event: Texas 10 B-Tier Am event. Is that the same thing? I don't see Texas 10 Finals listed as an event that was done.



Yep. 11-12-05. Still having a layout issue?

(only interested in protecting a 1000 rated round.. :) )

Apparently the Adv Masters played different layouts than what was processed.

Thanks for the recent ratings updates !!!!

Apparently the Adv Masters played different layouts than what was processed.



(insert joke about old men wandering the course here)

So everyone who played could see a shift in February?

I relayed your message to Dave and Roger for correction in the next update.



Thanks, I wish I actually had shot a 1000+ round.

Thanks for the ratings updates -BUT- I still think they should be updated more frequently...considering "ratings" are the closest thing we have to a handicap, they should be updated ATLEAST once a month.

They should be real time...YEAH RIGHT, maybe when he11 freezes over!!!!

often is good...real good. I vote for OFTEN updates

For current rated rounds, I shot my record best, 1006 and worst, 861 (I missed the 1st hole :( )



So you got par + four, most likely a seven, and they included that round in your rating?

Reminds me of the time I got a two-stroke penalty for playing the holes in the wrong order. I asked the tournament director to note this in the tournament director report, but that round still ended up getting rated.

I missed two holes at the Charlotte Open, still shot a 59 and mine is included. Oh well. I don't believe in ratings anyway.

So will the 2004 ratings be off of my February rating? Anybody know?

man, I'm tied with Eddie. And we are both on top of MTL. Not that Eddie believes in ratings.

So will the 2004 ratings be off of my February rating? Anybody know?




Only if you played an event in 2005 after October 10th that gets reported before the February update.

Chuck - can you explain to me why some rounds are used and some are not...I have rating as far back ( atleast shown) as 2001, but rounds used only show back to 2003

When do bad round or any rounds fall off and when are they used?

I am sure this is somewhere on here, but help a golfer out :D

Up thru Feb 2005, we dropped your bottom 15% if you had at least 11 rounds in the past 12 months. Since then, we drop only rounds more than 2.5 standard deviations below your rating or 100 points, whichever is lower.

If my counting is correct: there are 2063 pro men (open, masters, grandmasters...) with 106 or 5% rated >/= 1000. 9 states have 50 or more pros, 3 have only 1 pro in that state. Cali. has the most-245 and also has the most 1000 rated players-18 or 17% of all 1000 rated players (7% of Ca. pros). Of the states with >50 players, NC has the highest % 1000 rated players- 9% (9 of 100 NC pros). Al. has the highest % overall with 14% (3 of 21 pros). Tx. has the second most pros-158 with only 4 or 2.5% 1000 rated. 32 states have at least 1 1000 rated player. WV has the highest sub-1000 rated player (998) w/o having a 1000 rated player. I really have no idea what this all means, just thought it was interesting.

Yes, I was bored for a little while this evening

Also, would like to thank everyone involved with getting the ratings out and on time! :) :) :)

And yes, I happy with my rating going up 10 points! :eek: :) :)

Chuck My rating is still as of sept15? Are some of the ratings still being processed?

Thx. Brooke #16754

No new events, no new rating.

Thanks Chuck. disreguard the PM I just sent you. :o

Apparently the Adv Masters played different layouts than what was processed.



(insert joke about old men wandering the course here)

So everyone who played could see a shift in February?





As I calculate the ratings, the first round for the Advanced group will go down approximately 10 ratings points across the board and should go up about 40 rating points for the Adv. Masters group. For the second round the Advanced ratings should go up about 20 rating points and for the Advanced Masters it should go down about 20 points.

So they average out about the same. However, it appears a few of the 1000 rated rounds will disappear, including mine :(

Chuck,

What is the deal with the Southern National Pro Championships that was held on Sept. 3 & 4? All the results are in and it is official, but no ratings??????

It was all in before the deadline to be added to this rating period.

Not sure what happened because John processed it for course layouts. I'll have to check with Roger why that didn't go thru.

When you find an answer, would you please let me know. Like a pm or something.

Thanks

When you find an answer, would you please let me know. Like a pm or something.

Thanks



Ditto

- Merry Xmas all.

Does anybody else think it would be a good idea to come up with a way to sort ratings, but take out the players who have, say less than 10 rounds in the database. Obviously a player who has just 2 rounds in the database probably does not have an accurate rating. When searching the top AMs in the nation I find that most of those ratings are based off of like 1 tournament. I'd just like a way to sort them so we can see who the best players are who actually play alot.

I agree, ratings shouldn't be official until a player has played in at least three tournaments (or some other amount) or a certain number of rounds. They would still get a rating, but it would say unofficial or something like that. Then you could sort through the official rounds for better comparisons.

What makes you think that 10 rounds is any more accurate than 2? I guess that you believe that Cam Todd is still the best player in North Carolina, then.

A Player Rating and $0.75 will get you a cup of coffee.

Does anybody else think it would be a good idea to come up with a way to sort ratings, but take out the players who have, say less than 10 rounds in the database. Obviously a player who has just 2 rounds in the database probably does not have an accurate rating. When searching the top AMs in the nation I find that most of those ratings are based off of like 1 tournament. I'd just like a way to sort them so we can see who the best players are who actually play alot.



I agree. Here in Michigan, we've got quite a few Amateur guys that have a really high rating with only a few tournaments played. A way to sort these players would be great.

Does anybody else think it would be a good idea to come up with a way to sort ratings, but take out the players who have, say less than 10 rounds in the database.



That is why even though I practice better to get my rating up, and still feel it is behind my level of play, ratings really don't mean diddly until you step out onto an equal playing field and compete against other players. For instance I am about 164th out of 4800 in ratings, but if I place any worse then 25th at Worlds in Tulsa I will be highly PO'ed.

While ratings are not perfect, they are one advantage to PDGA membership. A buddy of mine has a 983 rating, it was based off of 1 round, he quit the tourney because he played it at last minute and had to leave early because it was his wedding anniversary. Is he really as good as a 983 player? No, but he is about a 960 player.

If we don't give ratings to members when they play sanctioned tournaments then why be a member? I know I am sanctioning my tournament in April solely so people can get round ratings.

We pay for the ratings, give them to us. And if you ever want to do a ratings based bet look me up, and give me strokes for how much higher your rating is then mine. Then we will see how much ratings actually mean.


PS. Thanks Chuck for all the free work you put into calculating these ratings for us.

[quote
. And if you ever want to do a ratings based bet look me up, and give me strokes for how much higher your rating is then mine. Then we will see how much ratings actually mean.


[/QUOTE]


Sounds good, when and where?

And if you ever want to do a ratings based bet look me up, and give me strokes for how much higher your rating is then mine. Then we will see how much ratings actually mean.


I'm in too.

[quote
. And if you ever want to do a ratings based bet look me up, and give me strokes for how much higher your rating is then mine. Then we will see how much ratings actually mean.





Sounds good, when and where?

[/QUOTE]

Mike,

We have already played against each other. Round 4, White Park at the 2005 Bowling Green Am's we were on the same card. You beat me by 1 stroke that entire weekend. But you did crush the snot out of that Teebird on #18, that had to be well over 450ft!

Will you be back this spring?

yeah, i should be there again.

sweet, see you there.

(dang, I just checked and you moved up after Nationals) Don't know if I will make it to the BG Open. It will depend on finances and if my course is ready for the tournament I am holding around that time.
Checking out my profile, and you will see my motivation for staying Am in 2006. Everyone who knows this guy I reference will get a chuckle out of my goals.

sweet, see you there.

(dang, I just checked and you moved up after Nationals) Don't know if I will make it to the BG Open. It will depend on finances and if my course is ready for the tournament I am holding around that time.
Checking out my profile, and you will see my motivation for staying Am in 2006. Everyone who knows this guy I reference will get a chuckle out of my goals.



Mike can still play am cuz his rating is only 943. So we may very well see him again in BG this year but who knows. As for your goals I wish you the best of luck and whenever you want to place money on your goals just let me know :D:D:D

Oh and im down for the other bet as well :D

What makes you think that 10 rounds is any more accurate than 2? I guess that you believe that Cam Todd is still the best player in North Carolina, then.

A Player Rating and $0.75 will get you a cup of coffee.



math tells me that the more data i have, the more accurate the average is. 10 was just a random number i picked.

Does anybody else think it would be a good idea to come up with a way to sort ratings, but take out the players who have, say less than 10 rounds in the database.




That is why even though I practice better to get my rating up, and still feel it is behind my level of play, ratings really don't mean diddly until you step out onto an equal playing field and compete against other players. For instance I am about 164th out of 4800 in ratings, but if I place any worse then 25th at Worlds in Tulsa I will be highly PO'ed.

While ratings are not perfect, they are one advantage to PDGA membership. A buddy of mine has a 983 rating, it was based off of 1 round, he quit the tourney because he played it at last minute and had to leave early because it was his wedding anniversary. Is he really as good as a 983 player? No, but he is about a 960 player.

If we don't give ratings to members when they play sanctioned tournaments then why be a member? I know I am sanctioning my tournament in April solely so people can get round ratings.

We pay for the ratings, give them to us. And if you ever want to do a ratings based bet look me up, and give me strokes for how much higher your rating is then mine. Then we will see how much ratings actually mean.


PS. Thanks Chuck for all the free work you put into calculating these ratings for us.



I'm only proposing a way to sort the ratings. Everybody still gets a rating even if you only have 1 round in the database.

Ok I wish the Summer update would get here so I can get rid of the rest of my <950 rounds. :DLooks like the top rated am has like six rounds one being a 857 that dropped and so his rating is 990. :oI agree with a way to sort out players with less than like 10 rounds.

matt, why are u still caring about the top AMS?
i wish i would stop shooting sub 950 rounds :)

I think I shot one at a tournament two weeks ago but it will go up when entered officially. The cool thing is that once my KC and des moines tournaments drop I will be sub 950less (hopefully) :D

I'm personally looking forward to getting my few sub 850 rated rounds dropped. :D It is true about the more "accurate" rating coming from many rated rounds. I've got 44 rounds ranging from when I played Rec. earlier this year and none were dropped. I did have a nice 22 pt. jump this update, though. Looks like I may be playing Advanced this next States. /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

MERRY CHRISTMAS <font color="red"> </font>

Ok I wish the Summer update would get here so I can get rid of the rest of my <950 rounds. :DLooks like the top rated am has like six rounds one being a 857 that dropped and so his rating is 990. :oI agree with a way to sort out players with less than like 10 rounds.



yeah, looks like he only plays his home tournament. that would prolly help everybody's rating if only their home course was used to determine their skill level.

Yeah If I played only in houstoon my rating would probably be at like 1015 but I don't. :D

If you could only play better your rating would be 1015 :p

That is incorrect if I could become more consistant my rating would possibly go up that high. I have been having a lot of 970 rounds followed by 1010+ rounds lately and it would be nice to just play 1010+ all the time. :DSo Chris what have you been up to?

New ratings posted in a special update.

I don't see them anywhere...

My rating went up 2 points.

Mine still says Dec 15...What's up with that?

Not that many people had events or corrections processed since December. The Southern Nationals Pro Championship got in this update and the last two rounds of US Masters finally got in there along with maybe a dozen new events.

Your date only changes if you have a new event. It's always been that way.

and at least one event was removed! :mad:

playing with mulligans is no different than playing the last three holes in the dark. in fact, it could be argued that finishing in the dark is more of score changer than everyone having a mullie.

therefore, i expect the 2006 Poison Ivy Open second round scores to be excluded form official PDGA ratings. anything else would be a travesty.

Dave makes the call. He should be contacted if there are any anomalous rounds that need to be handled. In general though, X-tiers should not be rated unless maybe it's just some sort of unconventional payout mechanism that's the reason for X-tier.

i know. i just hadnt had the chance to complain about anything yet today, and its almost 14:00.

i know. i just hadnt had the chance to complain about anything yet today, and its almost 14:00.


You've complained plenty today, Pat! Just not in the threads. :)

its the threads that count homie.

(homie isnt banned is it?)

and at least one event was removed! :mad:

playing with mulligans is no different than playing the last three holes in the dark. in fact, it could be argued that finishing in the dark is more of score changer than everyone having a mullie.

therefore, i expect the 2006 Poison Ivy Open second round scores to be excluded form official PDGA ratings. anything else would be a travesty.


We only played one hole in the dark, Pat, not three.

therefore, i expect the 2006 Poison Ivy Open second round scores to be excluded form official PDGA ratings. anything else would be a travesty.




NO WAY! That was my good round(1001)! :DBesides, my card didn't finish in the dark, not even one hole.

therefore, i expect the 2006 Poison Ivy Open second round scores to be excluded form official PDGA ratings. anything else would be a travesty.


NO WAY! That was my good round(1001)! :DBesides, my card didn't finish in the dark, not even one hole.


some had one, some had two some had three some had none. you guys are proving my point. what could be more unfair to the derivation of an honest rating?

and at least one event was removed! :mad:

playing with mulligans is no different than playing the last three holes in the dark. in fact, it could be argued that finishing in the dark is more of score changer than everyone having a mullie.

therefore, i expect the 2006 Poison Ivy Open second round scores to be excluded form official PDGA ratings. anything else would be a travesty.



No way I didn't finish in the dark and only a few cards did.I also think the ratings were low on that round and why don't we drop the 1st round too since we had to rush so we could finish and have time to eat before the 2nd round?
It would be BS if they didn't rate that round.

BTW why didn't the Piney woods event go in the ratings? I thought it did and saw my rating stayed the same but it will go in when they are official.

therefore, i expect the 2006 Poison Ivy Open second round scores to be excluded form official PDGA ratings. anything else would be a travesty.


NO WAY! That was my good round(1001)! :DBesides, my card didn't finish in the dark, not even one hole.


some had one, some had two some had three some had none. you guys are proving my point. what could be more unfair to the derivation of an honest rating?


Pat, what if half the cards had already finished, and the wind died down to nothing for the rest of the cards for their last hole or two? Should we not count that round, either, since they did not all finish in the exact same playing conditions? Hypothetically, one player threw a given hole with a much different wind condition that the other player did. Where do we draw the line?

bam, thats a fair question, i completely agree. is there always a valid reason for counting morning and afternoon rounds differently just because the pool/divisions are different? i think at one point they discussed combining those rounds for ratings.

In the beginning of ratings, all scores on the same course layout were combined for the day and sometimes two days. That's primarily so we could be sure we would have enough propagators. However, we started getting complaints, from Texas in particular, that it wasn't fair when the weather was different between morning and afternoon. Gimp might have been one of the drumbeaters. So, we started to group the scores by rounds like we do today.

Texas 10 Charity Cup-Am Day was fixed. My 1008 round droped to 1000 (-8) and the 972 round went up to 990 (+18). That was the only change & my rating stayed the same.

I just thought of something. If this year's ratings don't come out untill April/May some people could have 15+ rounds going in. Why can't the update be in March which is 3 months into the year?

Read "Special January Update" under "PDGA Anouncements"

Yeah but only a few events from 05' were entered and no 06' rounds will go in until at the earliest April but most likely Mid-May.

I dislike the fact that there are still '04 ratings in my 58 rated rounds.

Yeah that is unfortunant. :confused:

bummer!! my rating went down 3 points , with this update!! This is the first time my rating has ever dropped!!Why could't the last update merely be adjusted to what it should have been in the first place ?? :p

982
I'm very proud of myself.
I'm starting to feel more and more like a pro.

982
I'm very proud of myself.
I'm starting to feel more and more like a pro.


Nice job, Rich. That is a pro rating, fer shure.

Thanks Rhett, now if I could just figure out a way to beat Jim Oates, Kenny Lee and Pete Sontag I'd really have something.

Just wondering why my rating didnt change. There was an event added since the last update but it wasnt included in this last update. Just wondering why.

Any help would be great.

Thanks

If it's not added, we didn't have the report in time.

Efrain I like your brother Eric's rating. same # of rounds but his rating changed :D :confused:

you gotta love the consistancy!!!! :p

The drops/changes had to do with getting the layouts correct for TX10 Saturday (Am's).

I saw the same shift as Erron. Kat went up a point overall.

Efrain, you didn't play that Saturday, but 4 rounds were dropped. I bet those were higher rounds, so you lost 3 points.

My dropped rounds were Waterloo which should not have been included in the first place!! This being the case my original 958 rating should not be listed as 958 due to error by the pdga!! It should be corrected to reflect my real (pdga) rating!! Just another example of the pdga's inconsistancy with their ratings system!! Can this be fixed???? I merely do not want a ratings drop in my ratings history , which i should not have!!! :confused:

get over it. its dumb, but we'll have to live with it.

or else, lets start an email campaign to David Gentry stating our reasons for keeping those rounds included. there is no valid reason to not include them.

I'm in!! It just su.cks that my rating had to drop due to someone elses error!! Ian's dropped 5 points because of it!!Wayne atkinson's rating went back up 12 points because of it!! shawn lowe's also went up 5 points due to waterloo!!Pat, its the inconsistancy that annoy's me more than anything!! Is there a requirement that the ratings criteria must be changed at certain time intrevals?wtf :p

Dude,

Ratings don't matter on the course. Just because you are rated higher then someone does not mean you will beat them and just because someone is higher then you does not mean you will get beaten by them.

Your concerned about a statistic? It is a weighted running average, that is all. I had a ratings drop or two. It does not matter.

You like me are improving players, current ratings are not going to tell the world how we are playing at the moment. Just show it on the course, and stop worrying about a number.

stop worrying about a number.


Then what's up with your sig ...?

you are apparently missing my point!! it's a consistancy issue with the ratings!! I pay my pdga fees and dues etc. , why should i expext any thing but consistancy and accuracy ?? :p

Maybe because most of the work these guys do is volunteer-based, and done outside their normal job hours?

If you demand high standards, be prepared to pay higher dues.

stop worrying about a number.


Then what's up with your sig ...?



Don't worry about the numbers in the signature either. :D

Maybe because most of the work these guys do is volunteer-based, and done outside their normal job hours?




excuses excuses!! I see this as a simple fix called set standards!! One way or the other, lack of conisistancy equates to lack of proffesionalism!! :confused:

You mean rock solid standards like the rules that never change or the discs that never change or the baskets that never change or the Board members that never change or the weather that never changes or the competition guidelines that never change...

yes, exactly! :D

actually, we'd be better off had none of the rules changed this year, but thats another topic.

ratings rock, even with some periodic changes.

Special Bulletin:
-----------------

In the interest of maintaining consistent ratings, all players are now required to shoot scores that exactly match their ratings. This will simplify score keeping and speed up awards ceremonies since the TDs can figure out payouts and finishing order anytime after the tournament begins.

Special Bulletin:
-----------------

In the interest of maintaining consistent ratings, all players are now required to shoot scores that exactly match their ratings. This will simplify score keeping and speed up awards ceremonies since the TDs can figure out payouts and finishing order anytime after the tournament begins.


Excellent idea!!

To expound on that, they could assess players a penalty for each round shot that does not match their rating. This way, they increase their revenue in such a way that the individual members still maintain control over the process... ie: don't want to pay the PDGA extra money, then don't shoot scores which deviate from your rating.

Who could be upset with that? :D

BUNCH OF BAGGERS!!!!! :D

Maybe because most of the work these guys do is volunteer-based, and done outside their normal job hours?

If you demand high standards, be prepared to pay higher dues.




Now were talking :D

if dues get me a rating count me OUT!!

You mean rock solid standards like the rules that never change or the discs that never change or the baskets that never change or the Board members that never change or the weather that never changes or the competition guidelines that never change...



I rest my case!! well done!! :confused:

stop worrying about a number.


Then what's up with your sig ...?



I am not worried about my rating. I know that it does not reflect my level of play. So I am certain that I am a 950-960 level player right now.

There is a difference between worrying and knowing the rating is not reflective of present skill set.

No Kris, you are a 935 rated player right now!! :p

Cool, I went from the #40 something golfer in North Cack to the Number 4 golfer in South Cack! Two of the top 4 golfer in South Cack are from North Cack! NoCack AtTack!

I noticed a few players have ratings updates that occured on Jan. 24th, but this is only a few golfers? What is up with that.

My example is:
http://www.pdga.com/tournament/player_ratings_history.php?PDGANum=19730&year=2005

Can someone explain to me what this is about?

We just did a special update on Jan 24th. But this time of year, there aren't that many players who had a new event to rate since Dec. If you didn't have one then your ratings date doesn't get changed.

We just did a special update on Jan 24th. But this time of year, there aren't that many players who had a new event to rate since Dec. If you didn't have one then your ratings date doesn't get changed.



What about an event that was turned in late? Its on the list of events I attended, but it is not included in my ratings.

Maybe they were to low? I was sucking it up that day! :confused: :D:o

I'm in!! It just su.cks that my rating had to drop due to someone elses error!! Ian's dropped 5 points because of it!!Wayne atkinson's rating went back up 12 points because of it!! shawn lowe's also went up 5 points due to waterloo!!Pat, its the inconsistancy that annoy's me more than anything!! Is there a requirement that the ratings criteria must be changed at certain time intrevals?wtf :p



The membership has pushed for changes to the ratings system...so it is all of our fault for the inconsistancies. I don't blame Chuck and crew for not wanting to rework every tourney each time, for what they get paid, it ain't worth it. Even with what Bill Gates gets paid, it might not be worth it.

No Kris, you are a 935 rated player right now!! :p



That is what my PDGA card says, and my stats online, but if do a linear trend graph of my round ratings, you will see that the linear analysis shows that I am playing at a 950+ level. I am being held back by older lower rounds which should be gone by the May update. This summer, my rating should be really close to the level I will be playing at during that time.

Plus the only time you have seen me play was at one of my worst tournaments of 2005, luckily it was doubles and the rounds were not rated. That would have really killed my rating.

We just did a special update on Jan 24th. But this time of year, there aren't that many players who had a new event to rate since Dec. If you didn't have one then your ratings date doesn't get changed.


I considered that, but if you look at the example I gave you, his last tournament was way back in November?
I'm still confused.

No Kris, you are a 935 rated player right now!! :p



That is what my PDGA card says, and my stats online, but if do a linear trend graph of my round ratings, you will see that the linear analysis shows that I am playing at a 950+ level. I am being held back by older lower rounds which should be gone by the May update. This summer, my rating should be really close to the level I will be playing at during that time.

Plus the only time you have seen me play was at one of my worst tournaments of 2005, luckily it was doubles and the rounds were not rated. That would have really killed my rating.


Actually, Kris, I just did a PURE average of your last 6 months (20 rounds) and it came back that your average round rating was 935.35, so I'd say you are probably a 935 rated golfer, give or take a couple tenths of a point.

;)

Holy cow Ryan, you can perform simple math.

Of course that is the average. I am talking about a trend analysis. You have to import my individual round ratings into Excel, graph it, and add a trend line.

Dur....

What's my "special rating" then Kris? I can't add, subtract, or multiply...But I can divide.

No Kris, you are a 935 rated player right now!! :p



That is what my PDGA card says, and my stats online, but if do a linear trend graph of my round ratings, you will see that the linear analysis shows that I am playing at a 950+ level. I am being held back by older lower rounds which should be gone by the May update. This summer, my rating should be really close to the level I will be playing at during that time.

Plus the only time you have seen me play was at one of my worst tournaments of 2005, luckily it was doubles and the rounds were not rated. That would have really killed my rating.


Actually, Kris, I just did a PURE average of your last 6 months (20 rounds) and it came back that your average round rating was 935.35, so I'd say you are probably a 935 rated golfer, give or take a couple tenths of a point.

;)



I concur!!! :p and i have never seen you play , that was my brother Erron !!

We just did a special update on Jan 24th. But this time of year, there aren't that many players who had a new event to rate since Dec. If you didn't have one then your ratings date doesn't get changed.



I have two and possibly three events on the tour page that were not entered and they probably should have been. The only one that probably would've missed the cut was a LSS event and Gimp always turns his stuff in within a day.

We just did a special update on Jan 24th. But this time of year, there aren't that many players who had a new event to rate since Dec. If you didn't have one then your ratings date doesn't get changed.


I considered that, but if you look at the example I gave you, his last tournament was way back in November?
I'm still confused.


Chuck said earlier in the thread that the last two rounds of U.S. Masters were added to the ratings. For some reason they weren't there before.

Holy cow Ryan, you can perform simple math.

Of course that is the average. I am talking about a trend analysis. You have to import my individual round ratings into Excel, graph it, and add a trend line.

Dur....


I wish you could see me laughing right now. It's just funny that you make such a big deal about considering yourself a 960 something player, and then telling everyone the trend analysis stuff, along with what you predict for the new ratings. If you really are that good, I don't see why you should feel a need to prove it to us, let us figure it out when it actually happens.

Thanks for noticing my basic math skillz, though. It's not everyday that I get compliments for all my hard work.

More averages for you:

Dave Vincent:
Current Rating: 973
Past six months: 977

Ryan Gwillim:
Current Rating: 960
Past Six Months: 973

Kris Allen:
Current Rating: 935
Past Six Months: 935


Notice any other trends in that? I know they are simple ones without using complex programs like excel and such, but it looks like your trend is to stay put, while the 619 is moving up. hmmm

:eek:

And the funniest thing, you don't see Dave or I talking about how much better we are than our rating, even though it would appear that our rating is a little less accurate then yours?

(don't take offense Kris, you know I like ya, and I'm most just messin' with u! Gotta admit it's funny though!)

And just so he doesn't feel left out, here is Millz:

Steve Millz:
Current Rating: 957
Past Six Months: 960

We just did a special update on Jan 24th. But this time of year, there aren't that many players who had a new event to rate since Dec. If you didn't have one then your ratings date doesn't get changed.


I considered that, but if you look at the example I gave you, his last tournament was way back in November?
I'm still confused.


Chuck said earlier in the thread that the last two rounds of U.S. Masters were added to the ratings. For some reason they weren't there before.


Oh, I missed that. Thanks Chuck/Rhett.

And just so he doesn't feel left out, here is Millz:

Steve Millz:
Current Rating: 957
Past Six Months: 960



What about me? 7 months
Sorry. :D

What about me? 7 months
Sorry. :D


My bad homie, here you go...

Matt Hall
Current Rating: 989
Past Six Months:991

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Actually I had some pretty bad tournaments after worlds too. :D

Thank you

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Actually I had some pretty bad tournaments after worlds too. :D

Thank you


Another thing Matt, PDGA doesn't use true averages. They use a formula where more recent rounds are weighted more (worth more) than older ones. I don't know their exact formula, but I believe recent rounds are double weighted, essentially counted twice, over older rounds. Maybe Chuck can shed some light on that?

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Actually I had some pretty bad tournaments after worlds too. :D

Thank you


Another thing Matt, PDGA doesn't use true averages. They use a formula where more recent rounds are weighted more (worth more) than older ones. I don't know their exact formula, but I believe recent rounds are double weighted, essentially counted twice, over older rounds. Maybe Chuck can shed some light on that?



Yeah the most recent 25% id double-weighted. Thanks to some unknown person who was not mills. :o

Lol, I did some trendline analyzing too.
RyanGwillim
Trendline rating: 979

Dave Vincent
Trendline rating: 998

Matt Hall
Trendline rating: 990

I don't think this is too reliable at all.

Hey Dave you have me! But if you add in how I have been playing after my slump I have you. :D

I can't believe someone would go through so much trouble trying to argue that they are a 950+ rated player heh is there even a difference between 930 & 950 anyway?? I can maybe see a different in 981 & 1001 or 1018 & 1038 but other than that what does 20 points even matter??

989 to 1009. I will argue for that as I would go from #12 to #1 in TX. :D
Hey Chris what do you have this weekend that Justin is coming up to? :confused:

if you look at the numbers if players in each 10 rating point band (http://www.earthoffice.net/discgolf/ratingdistribution.htm) you'11 see that 20 points matters a LOT! and the higher the rating, the tougher it is to gain 20 points. theres a steep dropoff after the 930s. a 930 plater is tied for 2574th in world rankings. the 950 players is raked 1455th.

Chris has the big chill aka the ice bowl and there is a little snow on the ground so chris and justin just fell out of top three #1 Sleepy/Stamm #2 Shark/Schultz #3 Schweiger/Miller

Theres still snow on the ground?? It's suppose to rain and be in the 40's the next day or two. It'll be gone by Saturday.
#1 Heeren/Bunnell #2 Schultz/Peterson #3 Hamill/Cobus :p

I'm flying up and will pick up some local and become numero UNO. :D

I'm flying up and will pick up some local and become numero UNO. :D

Chris and J WILL win!!!

(don't take offense Kris, you know I like ya, and I'm most just messin' with u! Gotta admit it's funny though!)



It's all good Ryan. I can take the retailiation. Are you going to be in BG this year? Or Tulsa?


Chris Heeren, at least I have goals of improving, and can improve at a rate faster then my rating can keep up. That is, because I am an Am after all. The only thing we have is bragging rights about being the "big fish, in a little pond", and how good we really are. We all quite down once we move up to Open, as will I once I make the move. Until then I will likely run my mouth until I get schooled by the open division, which is a division I do not belong in now. I also believe more in round ratings then a player rating. They are more accurate in my opinion.

Ryan, trend analysis or weighted average. It does not matter we will see what happens in BG or Tulsa.

How did you get that movie clip as your avator scooter?? The bat fetcher trick with me teeth is the best clip ever!!! I am now jealous. :mad:

How did you get that movie clip as your avator scooter?? The bat fetcher trick with me teeth is the best clip ever!!! I am now jealous. :mad:


-
-
Thats Kenny Rogers on the Jackassshow right :D

Are you going to be in BG this year? Or Tulsa?



I won't be in BG and it is very unlikely that I will be at Tulsa either. Too much $$$ for my small non-profit salary. We'll make it easy and say that you beat me at both events, though.

That's a bummer man. The cooler you won for road warrior at last years BG was not motivation enough for ya to come back.

Maybe after I get done with my masters in May I will get a job in So-Cal, and I can teach you the fine art of two-putting. LOL. And I doubt you would want to fly to Birmingham to play in the XC tier event I am running in April.

1009 would make you highest rated player in the second biggest state in the country...WOW....

That's a bummer man. The cooler you won for road warrior at last years BG was not motivation enough for ya to come back.

Maybe after I get done with my masters in May I will get a job in So-Cal, and I can teach you the fine art of two-putting. LOL. And I doubt you would want to fly to Birmingham to play in the XC tier event I am running in April.


How dumb was that! Give a huge cooler to probably the ONLY guy who can't take it home with him. I had to give it away.

The reason I'm not coming out to BG this year is that it falls on the same time as a tourney played at my favourite course in SoCal, Emerald Isle. I have not had a chance yet to play a sanctioned event there, so I'm gonna make it for sure this year. That and I can't afford BG right now.

they probably didn't think about the logistics of you getting the cooler home if you hadn't driven. hindsight is 20/20, but you should have traded it to someone for some or all of their player's pack, or asked the TD to let you trade it for something...

they probably didn't think about the logistics of you getting the cooler home if you hadn't driven. hindsight is 20/20, but you should have traded it to someone for some or all of their player's pack, or asked the TD to let you trade it for something...


It's all good, I just gave it to a friend of mine. No loss, I wasn't expecting anything in the first place. It was a nice gesture, a poorly thought-out one, but nice.

That's a bummer man. The cooler you won for road warrior at last years BG was not motivation enough for ya to come back.

Maybe after I get done with my masters in May I will get a job in So-Cal, and I can teach you the fine art of two-putting. LOL. And I doubt you would want to fly to Birmingham to play in the XC tier event I am running in April.


How dumb was that! Give a huge cooler to probably the ONLY guy who can't take it home with him. I had to give it away.


That's about as good as my friend, a couple of years back, winning a really nice margarita machine in a DG tourney raffle... he doesn't drink. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Sweet !!!!!!!!! We used to have this guy who had a portable battery operated blender he brought out to the course. :cool:

So........Anything new with the Feb. 14 rating update?

Yeah like three events will be put in. :mad:

On track for Feb 14th. About 25 events, half from Japan, a few NC and TX.

Which ones from Tx? Outlaws and Piney woods? If so I am going DOWN to 980 :D

Every event but one hasn't been reported and I think it's Canadian.

Oh well at least I will go way up in April when like 30+ rounds go in. :D

What about the Inaugural Savannah Open?

Only 05 events will be entered. :confused:

If that's 2006, then nothing until April. All events in 2005 but one Canadian event will be completed by the 14th.

Thanks for the quick response......I wasn't sure which events where being added to the ratings....
I guess I'll have to wait till April to join the 1000 rated club...

B�rd #19410

Will the '04 events be taken off the ratings if you have plenty of rated rounds?

How many you play has nothing to do with it other than it advances the date of your most recent event. All 2004 events won't drop off your rating until you've played an event in 2005 more than 365 days after the last one you played in 2004.

Hey Chuck, I have a quick question. When determining what range of rounds will be thrown out from my rating, do I use a population standard deviation or sample s.d.? Also, do you use the empirical rule of 95% for rounds within two standard deviations?

I'm not exactly sure what function Roger uses in the calculation. However, it's done based on your DPH (differential per hole) values not your ratings which are rounded down. Those are your ratings on a per hole basis. A DPH of 0 is 1000 rating for example. I think it's the STDEV function you can find in Excel (but I know Pat suggested it should be STDEVA). It's 2.5 times the STDEV or 100 whichever number is smaller.

Hey Chuck did I go down? If so was it more then 4?

No you went up 1.

In Age.

Happy Birthday other Matt.

Bought you a Carvel cake, but ended up giving it to my wife instead. :D

That's ok in am too full for cake. :D

Thanks

Down less than 4

OK, now I gotta know, did I move?

happy birthday matt... my guess is there is no way you went down more than one point.

Nope

down more than 4?

No.

thanks, still in the 980's :cool:

chuck ive NEVER done anything but move up.

The only three tournaments I've got going in I cashed in....so I'm pretty sure I went up - above 975?

Up but not over 975

oh well, at least the streak continues!!

It'll be easier to maintian it at this rate :)

It'll be easier to maintian it at this rate :)



what do you mean by that?

haha, btw, I got a pic of me you Kirk Yoo and some other NC golfers at Renny a few years back at Fall Finale. Kirk looks so thin - its great - I gotta bring it to worlds and show you - it cracks me up

Easier to maintain an increase if the jumps are smaller...

I'd rather go up a point here and there than fall and read what I added to the previous post if you missed it

I'll be there keeping score.

Chuck, did you ever find out why i had 29% of my most recent rounds double weighted instead of only 24% ?

was it really a rule whereby i cannot be rated higher than thee? :D

We're still tied.

946 or 948? :eek: :D

I didn't change

24099...Up or down?

Neither

Did my horrible rounds from last January get dropped?

They don't get dropped until they are more than 12 months older than the date of the most recent round in your ratings.

Did i go up 3 points or less?

more

I'll bet the farm that I stayed the same. :eek:

happy birthday matt... my guess is there is no way you went down more than one point.



I don't know only the Piney Woods event is going in for me and I played around 973 there. :confused: I have been playing 1000 for my last like 12 rounds though so I should be going up in April. :D

yeah, april should see a big bump for ya. headed in the right direction, fo sho!

soon??

Should be this afternoon before Dave heads home from the PDGA office. He's working on getting it uploaded to the development server right now for a final spot check. Then, it will go live for everyone soon after that.

Thanks! I have never really looked forward to the ratings, but this time I am.

I think my brother beat me to 1000 rated.

Surprise, surprise! Looks like Dave's already uploaded them. Check it out.

Mine is still "as of jan24"

dats cuz you didnt have any changes since the jan update. no changes = no new date stamp

Wow. I get another 4 digit round...which was followed up by a 913 round in the same tourney. :eek:

A 10 stroke difference will do that :eek:, At least you didn't have a 939 stroke difference :D

Next Ratings Update 4/18/06
TD's - Tournament Reports due 3/30/06 for inclusion.


Aw man! :(

You have to add BG to the the Update. It is only the biggest touranment in the world.

PLEASE :D

Dear Chuck,

I really appreciate all the time and effort you put into doing the ratings system and have a couple questions. First could you please add the FDR fools fest to the next ratings update, all the info is online today, and while I see that its two days late it would help my rating immensely. Also my first round at the memorial was rated a dismal 895 will it be factored in or dropped. My pdga# is 25451; thanks for your time.

The batches for processing are already done from the PDGA office and Gentry is now on vacation. Roger, John and I are now doing our thing to get the ratings ready to go. That's not to say Dave won't surprise us with more when he gets back but it doesn't sound likely.

dats cuz you didnt have any changes since the jan update. no changes = no new date stamp



Mine didnt change either...AND I should be dropping a LOAD of junk rounds and add the Memorial rounds.........

I guess Ill have to wait...I should go up at least 25 points

I am hoping I go up and end up ahead of our newest PDGA player in town who avgeraged 945 golf in his first PDGA event ever. Bagger would have finished second in Advanced.

I had way to many bad rounds this spring to help my rating. The only thing I can hope for is for my Stdev to go down and drop more rounds.

We will see. Can we make the 18th come sooner?

Someone remind me again, what are the minimum number of holes that need to be played to assign a rating to the round?

Thanks.

13

aging wanna-be pro master with a horrible first round at memorial..will i be able to play advanced at the end of the month? :eek:

no clue for at least a week.

thanks!

i can wallow in my own shallow pool of mediocrity for another week now :eek:

Don't worry keith, I think I might be able to play MA2 again after the 18th. :p

Don't worry keith, I think I might be able to play MA2 again after the 18th. :p



but i need you to stay in mm1 so i have someone to beat :eek: :D

Don't tell me the PDGA rating will now off again by the same amount in the other direction...

Sorry Keith, I cannot play MM1 for another 14 years.

No Chuck, unfortunately the rating will be accurate, I had a rather cruddy spring. Seems like I cannot go a tournament without a sub 900 round. BG Am's might be close to a sub 900 for my second round. Most of my rounds going into the next update will be above my current average, unfortunately my bad rounds are so bad that they drag the average way down, and hence I am thinking dispite actually getting better skill wise in the last 4 months, my rating will drop due to a few course management problems. I cannot wait to see how I do on a gold course here in a few weeks. I actually think I will do better since it will force precise shots and make me play smarter.

But my current signature will stay the same. I am confident you are good at math. :D

The good news is the higher the SSA, the fewer rating points per shot. So it's harder to shoot poorly.

The good news is the higher the SSA, the fewer rating points per shot. So it's harder to shoot poorly.



Thats funny, because I made shooting poorly look easy.

The best line I heard was a guy told me I needed to change my log in name to parknfourputt. :o

My Predictions:

KrisAllen:....Up 2 points.
GwillimNation:....Up 9 points.
DirtyVincent:....Up 12 points.
Millz?:....Up 4 points.

My Predictions:

KrisAllen:....Up 2 points.
GwillimNation:....Up 9 points.
DirtyVincent:....Up 12 points.
Millz?:....Up 4 points.



Seems you have it figured out, Ryan...........

What about me........??
:D

My Predictions:

KrisAllen:....Up 2 points.
GwillimNation:....Up 9 points.
DirtyVincent:....Up 12 points.
Millz?:....Up 4 points.



Thank Ryan, I think you are generous.

My Predictions:

KrisAllen:....Up 2 points.
GwillimNation:....Up 9 points.
DirtyVincent:....Up 12 points.
Millz?:....Up 4 points.



Seems you have it figured out, Ryan...........

What about me........??
:D


Ruzicka:....Up 7 points

Me?????????????

me 2!!please!!

My Predictions:

KrisAllen:....Up 2 points.
GwillimNation:....Up 9 points.
DirtyVincent:....Up 12 points.
Millz?:....Up 4 points.



lol...I doubt it /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

My Predictions:

KrisAllen:....Up 2 points.
GwillimNation:....Up 9 points.
DirtyVincent:....Up 12 points.
Millz?:....Up 4 points.



Seems you have it figured out, Ryan...........

What about me........??
:D


Ruzicka:....Up 7 points



:oI figured more, by my calcs.....

If ALL those rounds 1 year old drop and the latest are double wieghted...I figured AT LEAST 20 points...we'll see.

:D

Matt,
It'll take me a bit to come up with your's, I haven't looked at your numbers lately.

Efrain,
Sorry, but I can only predict ratings for ppl I know. Otherwise it's just an uneducated guess. All those predictions are educated guesses.

:oI figured more, by my calcs.....

If ALL those rounds 1 year old drop and the latest are double wieghted...I figured AT LEAST 20 points...we'll see.



I hope you're right too, for your benefit. I'm sure it's eating you up inside that there are so many AMS rated higher than you. (j/k).
I looked over your numbers and I think a 20 point swing is a bit extreme, but who knows, with double weighting the recent rounds and dropping the old ones anything could happen. We'll find out soon enough, but I think It's gonna be closer to 7 points than 20.

but i need you to stay in mm1 so i have someone to beat :eek: :D


Keith, you would have to drop to 914 or less to be eligible to play MM1.

Matt,
It'll take me a bit to come up with your's, I haven't looked at your numbers lately.

Efrain,
Sorry, but I can only predict ratings for ppl I know. Otherwise it's just an uneducated guess. All those predictions are educated guesses.



Ok I have 20 rounds or so going in that were averaging 1005 unofficially. I know that at three of those events the ratings will go up about 5 to 10 points as they usually do because of there being so many Ams(gets fixed when official) so those 20 will probably average 1007 or so.

I heard that the ratings will be lower than expected, since they changed the "boost factor". So, if you unofficially averaged 1005, I would guess it would be closer to 998. Chuck, is that remotely close, or am I completely making stuff up again?

Well then a lot of people around here(the 1000+ ones) have been shotting well below thier rating which I don't really believe.

I heard that the ratings will be lower than expected, since they changed the "boost factor". So, if you unofficially averaged 1005, I would guess it would be closer to 998. Chuck, is that remotely close, or am I completely making stuff up again?



This is just hearsay, but I do believe that is correct. 1000 rated players were artificially boosted to make up for changes in rating calcs in 2005. That boost is supposed to disappear. If you have been averaging your ratings, what you should have seen is your rating higher than the average. They should come closer to averaging. Once again this is hearsay and I am in no way official enough to know the full story. I believe a 1000 rated player got a boost of about 8 points.

It wasn't that a 1000 rated player got a boost of 8 points but an SSA around 50 was boosted to 50.81. That results in a boost of about 8 points for every player on a course with that SSA. This was to compensate for the fact that we weren't dropping the bottom 15% of people's ratings any more. It should have been a tradeoff such that everyone's rating would remain about the same.

Now that most players will have boosted ratings from 2005, if we keep the factor in 2006, it would continue to boost player's ratings even if they aren't improving. So, we have dropped the boost factor (per hole) from .045 to .02. This should boost a 50 SSA to 50.36 instead of 50.81. So, players will still get a little boost of 3-4 points in 2006. Roger thinks we should keep it in there for the whole year but we'll just see what it looks like after each update. The most sensitive measure we look at is the number of players at 1000 and higher rating. We had abnormally higher growth in that group in 2005 partly due to the factor. The proper number is likely something less than it is now as a percentage of all players but we don't want the number to drop dramatically either. We want to make that a worthwhile achievement that requires as close to the same amount of effort each year. So we'll see how it goes.

but i need you to stay in mm1 so i have someone to beat :eek: :D


Keith, you would have to drop to 914 or less to be eligible to play MM1.



yeah..but with my 600 point rating double weighted first round at the memorial...it is definately possible :eek:

When can we get our crystal ball reading Chuck? I know Dave's on vacation, but can we ask the up/down yet? If so, 24099...Up or down? Thanks again for doin the math.