Wow! Its about time...

Definetly. Now everyone can be held accountable for their posts.

I applaud this - thanks PDGA

I applaud this - thanks PDGA



Now, what are you gonna do about your clone accounts? :D

I applaud this, too. I think that it will weed out a great deal of offensive and hostile postings that come from anonymous posters who only make those comments because they can't be held accountable.

Of course there will likely still be disagreements between PDGA members - we're a big family, and as everyone knows, family members don't always agree.

I applaud this - thanks PDGA



Now, what are you gonna do about your clone accounts? :D




haha, I'll be open and say who they are....no big secret anyway.

the_haTTer was me, but he was banned b/c I sold the name and password on eaby.
the_craPPer is me now, but I can't remember the last time I posted.
and then theres this one....and honestly folks, that's all!

I have no problem (unlike MOST people on here) posting something controvesial and having people know who just posted it. I don't create alter egos so that I can talk crap and then switch back over to my main one and say I never talk crap.

I wonder what DISCnDISCiple is going to do instead of starting stupid threads every ten minutes :confused:

I wonder if this going to force anyone to join.

Basically,
"Beginning sometime on Sunday, November 20, 2005, posting of messages on the PDGA DISCussion message board will be restricted to current PDGA members. There will be no restrictions on viewing message board posts."

I'm not sure whom I'll be missing, if anyone. :(

Everyone scrambles to see if they can find their membership card.

I wonder what DISCnDISCiple is going to do instead of starting stupid threads every ten minutes :confused:





LMAO!!!!

Oh well, it's been fun y'all. :D

It won't be the same without Jason, Mikey, Dan, Steve, or anyone else from the MSDGC threads. The board will be boring without the controversy they create.


Anyone think we could convince Nick not to renew his PDGA membership? :D

It was fun -- where's Randy Wimm when you need him?

Hopefully I'm the last non-member post . . . . . darn, all those years and I never did figure out the little smileys -- vaya con Dios.

Oh -- and [I'm a potty-mouth!] you too.

I wonder how they will handle renewals. Will everyone's account go dead Jan 1 only to be re-activated when they renew their membership. Or will there be a cutoff at some later date (say April Fools Day) where non-current members' accounts will be turned off?

Oh -- and [I'm a potty-mouth!] you too



My thoughts exactly. I've only been here since May.....so no big loss but it was fun DISCussing & sharing my love of the game. It was a great place to help me further my game & actually want to compete in tournaments, now I'm not so sure. Suddenly I feel my input is not valued since I don't have the $40 to join. So I guess I'll have to take my broke a.ss somewhere else :D
Good luck with this decision PDGA. At least it will take the strain off your servers seeing how you just basically banned 1/2 your forum users from posting.
Probably my last post so I'll say it was nice while it lasted.

Oh. And I'm taking pancake bunny with me. So :p http://files.blog-city.com/files/aa/45798/p/f/pancake_20bunny.gif

That's exactly what I thought. I imagine there will be a whole lot of people wanting to b!tch but without the ability. I know you are supposed to keep your membership card on you, but I bet a lot of these board posters who don't go to tourneys haven't a clue where their card is.



This should be a quiet few weeks.

Since we can now be held responsable do we get back all the benefits they took away. Post count, name changing and all that stuff.

: ) :

Padre, thats a good idea!

Would you like to be a member of a community but dont want to pay to do it? dub dub dub dot united discgolf dot com

Well, I looked at the United Disc Golf site and it doesn't seem to have much activity.

Stickitdg looks like a good board.
www.stickitdg.com (http://www.stickitdg.com)

Nebdisc is a decent board http://p073.ezboard.com/bnebdiscforums

To keep posting here you not only have to join and pay $40 but then you have to wait six weeks to get your password.

I never really saw a reason to join the PDGA since I don't play tournaments. But I was open to the idea and might have changed my mind or started playing tournaments and joined. Now I cannot see why I would join.

I think they have made a very ill advised decision.

I wonder how they will handle renewals. Will everyone's account go dead Jan 1 only to be re-activated when they renew their membership. Or will there be a cutoff at some later date (say April Fools Day) where non-current members' accounts will be turned off?


Good point!

Also, will all the old posts by non-members be erased? That would screw up every thread on here.

Quote by the commish "With this change, posters will have demonstrated their support for disc golf by being current in their PDGA membership status."

This should read "...will be forced to remain current members even if they don't play PDGA tournaments until May..."

This is a bad move! Thanks PDGA. The message board used to be a place to voice your opinion and get information and scores... Now it will just be Nick creating thread and replying to himself.

Well United has only been online around 2 months. We should see an increase of traffic and we dont piddle around on the requests. If you want something we are more than happy to provide it to you. Also if you have excellent ideas you can be a part of the development threads which are not visable to the average user. Just check it out and you will see what all the hype is about.

Well United has only been online around 2 months. We should see an increase of traffic and we dont piddle around on the requests. If you want something we are more than happy to provide it to you. Also if you have excellent ideas you can be a part of the development threads which are not visable to the average user. Just check it out and you will see what all the hype is about.





Oh yes, you can misunderstand me, and you can go for long walks with me, and you can shoot silver bullets at my dunce cap, but you won't change the way I search the Web for memos.



once a tard..... always a tard...

Theo,

I am very sad to see this decision regarding non-member posting on the PDGA board.

As someone who is fairly new to the game, I think I represent a large number of golfers who are still developing and may one day compete professionally. Sadly, many people who currently benefit from asking questions of the few experienced players kind enough to post here will cease to learn via that route.

Sadly, it seems that the PDGA is cutting off its nose to spite its face. This is yet another instance of an entity growing in power to the point that their goal becomes one of preserving their own existence.

I never thought the day would come that I would have to tell people that they should not seek out the PDGA for help in maturing their golf game.

The PDGA has done a lot for the sport, but with this increasingly exclusionary elitism the PDGA may one day finding itself waxing its own pelt.

I mean no disrespect toward you nor any of the PDGA staff. I can even understand the circumstances that have led to this decision. It really feels like you are "throwing out the baby with the bath water" and "letting a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch".

This decision seems awfully short-sighted, a common criticism of PDGA policy as of late.

Thanks for reading.

Respectfully,
A concerned Golfer

P.S. To all my boyz with whom I keep in touch via this board: Please feel free to get my NJ telephone number from Porter.

-----------------------------------------------

Thanks to the golfers who have given such great advice here to those of us still learning our games. This forum has been one of the greatest sources of information for improvement. Too bad that reaching out to nonmembers is no longer one of the PDGAs priorities.

PDGA, don't be surprised when the roles don't continue to fill as quickly as they have been. Who would want to join an organization with such draconian policy? All I can say, is "ain't it a shame..."

This is JUST a game!

I don't play Disc Golf, for money, against people...

Bye, everybody. I will miss most of you.

As I only play one sanctioned tournament a year, and don't care about my rating, it makes no sense to join. I wish I had the money to throw around, but I don't.

I hope in the future is decision is recanted, for I have been an active reader/ occasional poster here for five years. Now there is no point. I hope for the organization that this decision is not myopic.

Don't worry, I won't go to ***. Grunion burns bridges he hasn't even crossed over yet.

If you want to talk about Central Texas Disc Golf, or want to post images related to disc golf, you may still visit me at www.centxdglove.com (http://www.centxdglove.com) .

Good luck to you all.

Now your tossing your board around just like the bridge burner you so aimlessly attack. How funny. You sir win the award for hypocritisism.

Oh yeah, www.united-disc-golf.com (http://www.united-disc-golf.com), no dashes of course. The censorship has led to this. go ahead try typing in the link without dashes.

Grunion, not once have I bashed this board. I don't want to take anything away from here, only supplement it. You don't get it and never will. That's why no one has ever had a problem with my posts. Go ahead, push your directive. You only have a few more hours to spam every thread! Remember, your kids will act like you one day.

If I every see you in person again, say something then, you intellectual weakling. Then, watch out.

<font color="blue">I originally posted this on another thread, but it seemed more appropriate here. Feel free to delete the other thread (in. Misc.) because of a couple of people who have no respect. I've had some time to think about it and I'll don't think I'll be using that other board very much. After the trouble they've caused here, do I really want to be a part of that? While I think they had (have) legitimate gripes, I think they've gone about expressing them in a completely wrong manner.

Theo, if you can find a way to do it, I wish there was a way for ex-members with a PDGA number to use the board for a small fee.</font>

Well, since they've decided to change the posting policy, this will probably be my last post for some time. While I haven't posted often, I have enjoyed conversing with people from time to time and taking part in some of the discussions.

While I understand the new policy (and thank some of those who have made it possible ) I think it will ultimately be a bad move for the internet presence of the PDGA.

There are two groups of people that will be affected, I think.

1) International people. In countries (such as Switzerland) where disc golf is not very big, there is no benefit to joining the PDGA. We have to pay $10 extra per year and very rarely get to participate in tournaments that are PDGA sanctioned. The magazine is only available in English and many international people don't speak English well enough to make that worth their while.

2) Newbies. There are many newbies that have questions they would like to ask before joining the PDGA. Where can they receive the variety of answers from experienced players that they get here? Are they going to pay $40 a year to be able to ask questions? Probably not.

As I said, I understand the decision by the PDGA. I do, however, think it is just one more step on the road to elitism that could hinder the future growth of the sport.

I don't have the numbers, so this next bit is just speculation. I'd bet the number of non-member posters exceeds the number of member posters. The number of posts will immediately drop. This will not only be a short-term effect, but will expand as time goes on.

Another side-effect will be that the message board on that other site (which we aren't supposed to mention) will get more use. This will only encourage that organization to grow - assuming the 'leadership' there can deal with it. It seems this is the main reason the PDGA board is doing what they are doing - based on the posts of the last half year or so. I fear it will have the opposite effect than that the PDGA wants.

Again, I may be completely off base here. Things may turn out much differently than I imagine. I hope, for the sake of disc golf, that they do. I just think it's a bad move.

So, goodbye fellow disc-golfers. I will now begin to post on that other site when I need to ask something or want to talk. The PDGA website will be removed from my list of favorites and I will carry on living much as before.

If anyone wishes to stay in touch or get in touch, try one of my private e-mail addresses:

[email protected]

or

[email protected]

I won't be able to get PM's in a few hours! <font color="red"> </font>

Well . . . . is this the last non-member post?????

Did I miss something or shouldn't I be getting thrown off . .. ??

(I got to leave in a minute so puhleeze make this the last non-member post . . . .!!!!)

Thanks PDGA

I will not miss any of the disrespectful posters, but I do feel bad for the ones that contributed well meaning posts and discussions.

I think the [Ignore This User] functionality was a much better way to fix the current problems. What will happen to all the affiliate clubs, which allowed smaller areas to post about their own discussions (those clubs paid for that functionality) and many of those clubs, including the Charlotte Disc Golf Club, have a lot of non members who come onto the board to find out what is going on, meet friends, and basically, start their disc golf hobby. With all of these fledgling disc golfers now no longer able to post, we are not hurting disc golf on a global level, but on a local one. I'll be the first to say it. Boo. That stinks.

Where's the discussion? Where's the "Hey, we're considering the positives and negatives of making this message board PDGA member only" thread? Did I miss that one? Why was this not in the voting survey (maybe it was, I can't remember.) Anyway, I think we'll realize pretty soon that more posts is always better on messageboards. This place wasn't really hopping to begin with, so now we will need to count on PDGA members for all the daily discussion. No offense, but there are a lot of useful non members, and their opinions are just as valid as ours. Folded arms are a lot less inviting than open arms.

Mandates suck. Restrictions suck. Rules are good. But discrimination sucks. This is America. If this is truly "OUR" PDGA, give the players moderator authority. I know that in the past, there were big gripes about deleted threads, but it's better than those threads not existing. Many non member threads created true debate, true discussion, true controversy, all of this helps our messae board become the most visited disc golf message board on the planet, heck, the universe. But limiting the membership will only hurt things.

Oh, and figure out why all of these blank pages keep appearing or find another non-sucky message board program. Maybe even hire a message board consultant to figure out what needs to be done to make this board run correctly. I am absolutely sick of blank pages, threads having to be restarted because you can't find the last page and so on. Now THAT would be a step forward in the future of the PDA DISCussion Board.

PDGA# 21325

Good job PDGA, I'm not going to say "away with the free-loaders" or anything, but I feel that this will be a tool for increasing membership, and that is good for everyone in the overall scheme of things. If you play in 3 or more sanctioned tournaments a year and pay the additional fees there, then you are losing money by not joining by figuring in the DGWN subscription is a $25 value easy. C'mon people, join up.

Well said, Matt

Wah!

Have you ever seen a "natural OB area"?

Good job PDGA, I'm not going to say "away with the free-loaders" or anything, but I feel that this will be a tool for increasing membership, and that is good for everyone in the overall scheme of things. If you play in 3 or more sanctioned tournaments a year and pay the additional fees there, then you are losing money by not joining by figuring in the DGWN subscription is a $25 value easy. C'mon people, join up.



For those of us outside the US, the membership is $10 more. And a quick check of the tournament schedule will let you know how many PDGA events we have in this part of Europe.
(No offense intended here, but keep in mind that Sweden and Switzerland are not the same place. While the nordic European countries have an active PDGA scene, the central and southern countries do not.) I'm not going to pay $50 a year for 4 issues of a magazine and posting privileges.

As I said before, I understand why the PDGA is doing this and I believe they are well within their rights to do so. I just don't think it's a smart move for them and think they could have found a better way to resolve the situation.

How? Do you have a suggestion that you would be willing to help make happen that would not cost the PDGA any extra dollars or hours of work? If so, why not do your part and send in your membership fee?

The answer is that you do not have the necessary level of commitment. Which is entirely ok Dan. Not everyone does. If you don't though, be so kind as to respect our right to self-determination and governance.

Yes, I have a suggestion. Give people a chance to pay a small fee to use the message board. I would pay $10 a year to be able to post. I'm just not going to pay $50. You could still make people accountable for their posts and take in a little extra money for the PDGA at the same time.

This seems like a poorly timed move. I agree with Matt that a little discussion and debate are instrinic to the process. I am afraid that the PDGA board will wither without the criticisms, ideas, debate and chatter that accompany a wider posting base.

I think volunteer moderators is a way to solve the activity percieved as problematic. That wouldn't cost additional $, and the time it takes for some volunteers is minimal when efforts are decentralized. HeII, I'll volunteer for duty right now.
:)

I sincerely hope I'm wrong about the impact of this decision on new members, the PDGA mess board, renwals, etc. But I am kind of on a "right" streak lately.

#16846

A better solution would be to ban Nick. He adds very little real or useful information to any of the threads in which he contributes. Our volunteer of the year causes more asnine disagreements and useless message board banter than all of the nonmembers put together.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Can we at least have our posted post counts back , now!! :D

A better solution would be to ban Nick. He adds very little real or useful information to any of the threads in which he contributes. Our volunteer of the year causes more asnine disagreements and useless message board banter than all of the nonmembers put together.



It would be more accurate to say my ban of merry Nick-Haters cause this toddling along behind me. If they ignored me as I ignore them it would make this place much more pleasant.

Do you really want pleasant though?

Yes, I have a suggestion. Give people a chance to pay a small fee to use the message board. I would pay $10 a year to be able to post. I'm just not going to pay $50. You could still make people accountable for their posts and take in a little extra money for the PDGA at the same time.



Good one. But why not just pay the 50 euros though?

Good one. But why not just pay the 50 euros though?



First of all, we don't use euros in Switzerland. ;) Second of all, 50 euros is a bit more than 50 dollars at the moment. :D

Third of all, and most importantly, as I have already pointed out, what would I get for my $50? Posting privileges and the magazine. That's not worth it to me. Maybe for someone else, it is. It's just not the case for me.

But, it would be worth $10 to me to be able to post here. What would you say the chances are that this is actually considered?

This seems like a poorly timed move. I agree with Matt that a little discussion and debate are instrinic to the process. I am afraid that the PDGA board will wither without the criticisms, ideas, debate and chatter that accompany a wider posting base.



Don�t you mean �without actionless whining, uninformed complaining, witch hunting and cowardly anonymous tomato flinging�?


I think volunteer moderators is a way to solve the activity percieved as problematic. That wouldn't cost additional $, and the time it takes for some volunteers is minimal when efforts are decentralized. HeII, I'll volunteer for duty right now.
:)



Chyah! Have you noticed your avatar lately? It is not a perceived problem for volunteer moderators, it is a �very real� problem. And to accomplish what? To allow a few problematic posters to continue posting?


I sincerely hope I'm wrong about the impact of this decision on new members, the PDGA mess board, renwals, etc. But I am kind of on a "right" streak lately.

#16846



In your own mind perhaps. This has been under development for over a year now. The compromise I�d like to see happen is to have one non-member thread that can be watched. Just one, but not being willing to moderate it myself I�ll leave the decision up to the folks that would.

MY thoughts....

Good things....

1. No more idiots posting stupid stuff. I have absolutly no problem with people like Steve Mills, Jeff Legrassa (misspelled sorry Jeff) etc saying things that I rarely agree with simply b/c I know who is saying it. Most people using different log in names are so concerned with image and are afraid to say whats on thier mind b/c someone might not like them anymore. Big ups to Steve and JEff for always speaking thier minds.

2. No more mulitiple log ins - see above

3. The PDGA is a optional orginazation. You don't have to be a PDGA golfer to be a competitive golfer. I know many people who play just as much as I do at local events and doubles. Since I pay money to be a PDGA member, I should have special priveledges over someone who doesn't pay that fee.

Bad things...

1. Many many great posters (such as fore and Joy4lly) are not PDGA members and post great things. Hell, Joy4lly (Lisa) is a fiancee of a disc golfer and she doesn't play - she just supports the sport like crazy - I've never met anyone who has more dedication for this sport that doesn't play. But these are rare examples.

2. Pretty much exactly what Matt said about local information - I think that maybe (as other sites have done) there should be certain threads that only PDGA members can post on (like the top sections).

3. ITS A FREAKIN MESSAGE BOARD....WHO CARES!!!

This seems like a poorly timed move. I agree with Matt that a little discussion and debate are instrinic to the process. I am afraid that the PDGA board will wither without the criticisms, ideas, debate and chatter that accompany a wider posting base.



Don�t you mean �without actionless whining, uninformed complaining, witch hunting and cowardly anonymous tomato flinging�?

Nope. I meant what I said. I think that dissent is an important part of the creative process. While I agree that the anon posting (Grunion et al.) got out of hand with the negativity, I don't see this as something that moderation could not handle.


I think volunteer moderators is a way to solve the activity percieved as problematic. That wouldn't cost additional $, and the time it takes for some volunteers is minimal when efforts are decentralized. HeII, I'll volunteer for duty right now.
:)



Chyah! Have you noticed your avatar lately? It is not a perceived problem for volunteer moderators, it is a �very real� problem. And to accomplish what? To allow a few problematic posters to continue posting?


Have you noticed my avatar? How many married men that you know wear their ring on their middle finger? Is your middle finger next to your pinkie? Are things really that different in the mid-atlantic region?

I think the goal would be to achieve a rational debate. That is the same goal hoped for by banning non-member posting, right Nick?


I sincerely hope I'm wrong about the impact of this decision on new members, the PDGA mess board, renwals, etc. But I am kind of on a "right" streak lately.

#16846



In your own mind perhaps. This has been under development for over a year now. The compromise I�d like to see happen is to have one non-member thread that can be watched. Just one, but not being willing to moderate it myself I�ll leave the decision up to the folks that would.



You come across poorly on this board, Nick. I'm sure you're a fine person (in person) but I think you are a detriment to your goals with your hostility. I'm hoping you take this in the spirit it is intended, which is benevolent.

this is the first post after the members only rights have been established.

to those who helped, many thanks.

to those who cant find their PDGA cards with their passwords, PLEASE look hard before buggin the office :)

to those who are not members - please continue to readthe board and gain valuable insights and info about our sport. i'm betting you'll findthe cost of membership is well worth the value. either way though, best wishes.

peace to all.

Okay what is the big freakin deal? $40 for ams and $55 for pros. Did anyone mention that is a for a WHOLE YEAR? Come on! Support this organization. We have so many volunteers that give up thousands of hours a year to better disc golf. Why can't you give $40 to support disc golf? It is once a year!!!!!!! Please don't give me the tired excuse of being broke. I understand but come on. That is about 11 cents a day to be apart of this message board. How difficult is that? Everyone is talking about how they don't play tournaments or don't have tournaments where they live. So what! 11 cents a day!

I agree 100% with the PDGA's decision in doing this and I thank them for it. This will hopefully cause more people to join the PDGA and bring in more money into our great sport. We certainly need all the help we can get.

And 1 more thing: It is only 11 cents a day!!!! Get over it and sign up! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Okay what is the big freakin deal? $40 for ams and $55 for pros. Did anyone mention that is a for a WHOLE YEAR? Come on! Support this organization. We have so many volunteers that give up thousands of hours a year to better disc golf. Why can't you give $40 to support disc golf? It is once a year!!!!!!! Please don't give me the tired excuse of being broke. I understand but come on. That is about 11 cents a day to be apart of this message board. How difficult is that? Everyone is talking about how they don't play tournaments or don't have tournaments where they live. So what! 11 cents a day!

I agree 100% with the PDGA's decision in doing this and I thank them for it. This will hopefully cause more people to join the PDGA and bring in more money into our great sport. We certainly need all the help we can get.

And 1 more thing: It is only 11 cents a day!!!! Get over it and sign up! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Remember: your post is directed at people who can't respond. The rest of us have written our checks. (or mailed our dime-and-a-penny) ;)

Goodbye, folks.

It was fun while it lasted. I certainly have benfitted from my conversations with folks on the board; and I hope I have, in some small way, contributed positively to the conversation.

I very much regret that the '05 Bull City Showdown marks the last occasion that I will be volunteering at a PDGA-sanctioned event, at least for the forseeable future. Had I known of this decision by the PDGA Board earlier, I would have rearranged my schedule to be able to attend today as well.

While I have very much enjoyed my time volunteering and getting to know�and learn from�many of the players in this region over the past 5-6 years, and while I do not dispute the right of the PDGA to establish whatever policies it chooses or to limit the use of its resources in any way it chooses, as a non-PDGA member for both personal and vocational reasons, I am simply unable to answer to my own satisfaction the question of why I should continue to donate my time, energy, and sponsorship monies to an organization whose officers apparently believe that the only people whose thoughts and opinions are worthy of being heard are those of dues-paying members.

To the several members (and you know who you are) who have offered over the past several weeks and months that, in the event the PDGA were to implement a members-only posting policy for the board, you would pay the dues for me to become a member: while I am touched by the generosity of your offer deeply appreciate the vote of confidence it represents, I trust you will understand why, as a matter of principle, I must decline your offer.

To my fellow NC disc golfers (and you, Chris Hysell :)), my thanks for your good will and your cameraderie. I trust that our paths will cross on occasion, be it at monthlies, random doubles, or out on the course during casual rounds.

To the many of you, such as Dave Dunipace, Harold Duvall, Rhett, Keith Johnson, Bruce and Jon Brakel, Discette, gnduke, et al., whom I have not met in person but have known only as a name or an avatar here on the DISC_ussion board, thanks for making the board an informative and entertaining place.

Again, goodbye and Godspeed.

Respectfully,
Felix Sung

test

I am simply unable to answer to my own satisfaction the question of why I should continue to donate my time, energy, and sponsorship monies to an organization whose officers apparently believe that the only people whose thoughts and opinions are worthy of being heard are those of dues-paying members.



Has everyone forgotten the year long discussion on this topic ?

The move was not made to limit discussion to dues-paying members, but to limit input to those that could be effectively censured for inappropriate posts. I wish there was a better way, and the gentleman's agreement on banned posters worked for years, but recent events forced this apporach. I sincerely hope there will be portions of the board opened up for non-members to post questions, but do not think this is such a bad move.

Then again, I have been an ace club member for all but the first year it was offered.

I agree with Gary, and I am a Charter member of the Ace Club (and every year sense)

As a current member and an administrator of an Afiliate club (TDSA), I feel that this will effect our efforts on a local level in a BIG way. Our thread have been, well, our threads. This program was intended for local supporting clubs to have a place for their members to communicate. While we have a large local membership, much of those are not PDGA members. They are huge supporters of the game on a local level, which allows the TDSA to be a huge supporter of the PDGA.
This decision not only prohibits non-memebers from posting but also just about destroys the affilliate clubs thread.

While I am a current member, this decision does make me re-think that. This is a hard one for me. I am the business manager for the upcomming 2006 Am Worlds and adnimistrator for the local club. I'm sorry but this makes me question the WHOLE deal with the PDGA. :(

Knick Knight, while I don't know you and have never met you, I commend you for the time you commit to this sport. But as for this discussion board and your remarks, I think you should find a new area to offer you time to. Your remarks are that of someone with no professional, management or peolple skills. Your areas of expertise should be kept from public contact or comments. You come across as they type of person that drove me from ball gold to disc golf. I quit ball golf because there were just too many arrrogant A-holes.

I understand this decision, I just don't agree with it and I think this will hurt the PDGA in the long run.

The more I think about this, the more torn I become. I do agree that it will weed out a great deal of offensive and hostile postings that come from anonymous posters who only make those comments because they can't be held accountable.

But of course there will still be disagreements between PDGA members - we're a big family, and as everyone knows, family members don't always agree. There may be just as much banter from existing PDGA members.

And I seriously question how many PDGA members it will actually bring back to DISCussion, versus how many prospective members this policy change will turn away. This could very well discourage hundreds from joining the PDGA.

I just looked at whos on line......................

There are 15 register members on line and 55 anonymous users with no abilities to post or ask questions.

Real nice..................... :confused:

It's 34 reg-52 anon right now. I seem to recall that there were always more anon online than reg. Several people I know never mastered the ability to log in originally with their membership password, so were simply regular lurkers. The real measure will be to see how much posting is effected. Obviously many registered people weren't members. There seems to be a dearth of activity this morning.

I'm not really going to miss some of the spineless "anons" that posted here and I appreciate the PDGA trying to do something about it, but our local board got many friendly inquires from non-members who were just interested in our courses, what they were like, and local club events. We have one guy who's in training to be a medic in the service that would just check-in to see how everyone's doing. Now I guess he'll have to come up with the 40 bucks just to communicate with his buddies at home. Seems to me there could have been some other solution. :confused:

I agree with Jeff . This is definatly a double edged sword .
I personally would like to see maybe an area that is SECURE for all non members to be able to post that is ONLY veiwable by members .
This is also going to hurt the associate club progam .

On the good side I do beleive it will increase membership at least for those who feel that this is the best way to communicate ideas and information .

It will also be a while before everyone drags out their PDGA membership card and enters their password correctly. I must also say that the PDGA did not think ahead when generating passwords....

Rule 1: Never use a cap I (pronounced eye)
Rule 2: Never use a lowercase l (pronounced el)
Rule 3: Never use an upper case O (pronounced oh)
Rule 4: Never use an upper case Q (pronounced que)

by the way, these items are/are not necessarily part of my password :)


I just looked at whos on line......................

There are 15 register members on line and 55 anonymous users with no abilities to post or ask questions.

Real nice..................... :confused:

Knick Knight, while I don't know you and have never met you, I commend you for the time you commit to this sport. But as for this discussion board and your remarks, I think you should find a new area to offer you time to. Your remarks are that of someone with no professional, management or peolple skills. Your areas of expertise should be kept from public contact or comments. You come across as they type of person that drove me from ball gold to disc golf. I quit ball golf because there were just too many arrrogant A-holes.



Dave,

My posts here have been in the context of a "free-for-all" funfest mess bored. Many folks in my position choose not to post at all, and understandably so, but I chose to post, to discuss, to argue, and yes to take on miscreants.

Now that the tenor of the board is going to change, being all members, I'll take the good-natured side of your advice to heart and try to be less confrontational. Then again there should be far less cause for confrontation since everyone posting will at least have some minimal level of commitment to the PDGA, right?

That being said, I think you need to admit that you are in no position to judge me or my skills other than my online persona, which is often, I have found nearly completely unrelated to a persons actual personality.

You or anyone is invited to PM me with any questions you may have.

Another completely stupid decision by the PDGA. The PDGA is supposed to be about spreading the word about disc golf and encouraging others to play; this decision shows once and for all that the current PDGA leadership is only interested in their own opinions, their own bank accounts, and their own egos.

[Post edited by board moderator]

Oh just go ahead and post on the USGA Discussion Board for ball golf. Oh wait, they don't even have one... :eek:

That being said, I think you need to admit that you are in no position to judge me or my skills other than my online persona, which is often, I have found nearly completely unrelated to a persons actual personality.





Keep living in denial, Nick. Your online persona, as well as that of many others, are an extension of your real-world self. And though people have tended to avoid confrontation with you in the past, they are beginning to speak their minds now - that you have poor professional, management, and people skills and should be in no position to lead anyone.

Mikey I dont' believe profanity was all they were after. My thoughts is that the "quidam's" of the world will no longer be able to anonymously post BS without reprocussion...in other words, say things here they would not say in person. Unlike Nick and I, we would gladly reiterate anything we post here, in person.

Believe me I have a potty mouth and love to show it off all the time...come out to Disgraceland this weekend and I'll give you a free sample!

if they're afraid of Grunion and Quidam and the like, it really shows how insecure and fragile our leadership is.

How do we change our passwords from the long password on our PDGA card? I have tried under my home page but it does not work?? thanks

How do we change our passwords from the long password on our PDGA card? I have tried under my home page but it does not work?? thanks



There is no way to change your member password at this time. We're eventually going to implement a site-wide login, with the usual self-service password change and reset. In the meantime, once you validate your message board account (which you obviously have), you won't need it again for that purpose.

Theo Pozzy
PDGA Commissioner

Great, now how about letting us change our displayed names again, since we're all trustworthy.

Before they allow that, you'll have to hook up a webcam and breathalizer to your computer so they can verify that you're wearing a collared shirt and you're not beyond the legal limit of public intoxication. ;)

I've been checking around and just can't find a disc sport or ball golf governing body that has an open discussion board and most have none at all. That includes USGA, PGA, Guts, Ultimate, Freestyle, WFDF and other English speaking countries with disc golf orgs. Did I miss seeing one?

Ultimate has pretty much taken over Rec.Sport.Disc.

[Post edited by board moderator]



Like Hitler or Stalin or something.

There is something inherently wrong with censorship. In every historical instance where the people were censored, the government was overthrown or re-staffed. Including the most recent example...Iraq.

You have to let people say what is on there mind. And this board is a really neat place to get to do that. And I think that everyone reading this right now would agree.

Now of course some people take advantage of the system. They are unfair and inconsiderate and downright stupid a lot of the time. And I think that everyone would agree that this is a definite problem.

I would just like us to stand together as a very cool group of people and charge ahead and figure this out, and get on with it. Let's be civil, let's take our time, and let's all still find the time to go out and play disc golf.

Cause remember. United we stand, divided we fall.

Those aren't just words people.

I'm not sure whom I'll be missing, if anyone. :(


For a start, Switzerdan, jsims, and fore. That last one's a shocker. http://themooneysuzuki.com/media/common/emoticons/punch.gif

Don't forget FlynVegas, Jason Southwick, et al.

To me, the board got to be like America. There are those who came here legally, some came ilegally, but once we all got here, we became Americans. You can lend a similar analogy to the Messageboard. It's a microcosm, and restricting the microcosm doesn't work.

How about allow some posters to view ONLY PDGA member posts. That way those who aren't interested in posts from outsiders can simply tune them out.

I seriously think that the affiliate clubs will be hurt most by this move. Is there no way to allow non members to post in those club's forums? They simply can't post in the main topic areas.

Underware Mike, Mike "GrunioN" "Rusty Chain" "Rusty Pipe" "Quidam" (and many others) Crump was spreading non true rumors and personally attacking members of the board. He (as you have) was posting inuendoes like "interested in their own opinions, their own bank accounts, and their own egos."

Why would anyone want to be on the board of the PDGA? You get bashed for trying to do the best you can???

You to have rumors spread on the discussion board that are based on nothing more than assumption. When done in jest (as in Mr. Himings private jet) there is nothing wrong with it, but when done in spite, they must be stopped.

I don't agree with the message board rules, but there was no other way to "clean up" the message board. All other ways were tried. I am affraid that the next step will be to omit the board. That is something that none of us, including you, want to see.

Knick Knight, while I don't know you and have never met you, I commend you for the time you commit to this sport. But as for this discussion board and your remarks, I think you should find a new area to offer you time to. Your remarks are that of someone with no professional, management or peolple skills. Your areas of expertise should be kept from public contact or comments. You come across as they type of person that drove me from ball gold to disc golf. I quit ball golf because there were just too many arrrogant A-holes.



Dave,

My posts here have been in the context of a "free-for-all" funfest mess bored. Many folks in my position choose not to post at all, and understandably so, but I chose to post, to discuss, to argue, and yes to take on miscreants.

Now that the tenor of the board is going to change, being all members, I'll take the good-natured side of your advice to heart and try to be less confrontational. Then again there should be far less cause for confrontation since everyone posting will at least have some minimal level of commitment to the PDGA, right?
Yes, but my concerns rest with losing the ability for new non-members to have the ability to ask questions and to be encouraged to join the PDGA. I just find it sad that this has all come about from a very few people's actions and that the only solution found is to punish many for the actions of the few.

That being said, I think you need to admit that you are in no position to judge me or my skills other than my online persona, which is often, I have found nearly completely unrelated to a persons actual personality.
This I would tend to agree with. I was only commenting towards your responses as an Administrator, not as a poster. The problem is, with your position as an Administrator, you can't have it both ways. You need to be one or the other.

You or anyone is invited to PM me with any questions you may have.

Without wasting the time and energy of the monitors, how do you effectively shut down the few malcontents?

Knick Knight, while I don't know you and have never met you, I commend you for the time you commit to this sport. But as for this discussion board and your remarks, I think you should find a new area to offer you time to. Your remarks are that of someone with no professional, management or peolple skills. Your areas of expertise should be kept from public contact or comments. You come across as they type of person that drove me from ball gold to disc golf. I quit ball golf because there were just too many arrrogant A-holes.



Dave,

My posts here have been in the context of a "free-for-all" funfest mess bored. Many folks in my position choose not to post at all, and understandably so, but I chose to post, to discuss, to argue, and yes to take on miscreants.

Now that the tenor of the board is going to change, being all members, I'll take the good-natured side of your advice to heart and try to be less confrontational. Then again there should be far less cause for confrontation since everyone posting will at least have some minimal level of commitment to the PDGA, right?
Yes, but my concerns rest with losing the ability for new non-members to have the ability to ask questions and to be encouraged to join the PDGA. I just find it sad that this has all come about from a very few people's actions and that the only solution found is to punish many for the actions of the few.

That being said, I think you need to admit that you are in no position to judge me or my skills other than my online persona, which is often, I have found nearly completely unrelated to a persons actual personality.
This I would tend to agree with. I was only commenting towards your responses as an Administrator, not as a poster. The problem is, with your position as an Administrator, you can't have it both ways. You need to be one or the other.

You or anyone is invited to PM me with any questions you may have.





My name is Neonnoodle by the way. Dave, I am no longer the administrator and have not been one since this summer. Prior to that I had no authority to ban anyone other than the users that Theo or Terry told me to ban. As these banned users opened new accounts and were made known to me I would ban them as well.

I agree with you that it would be nice if we could leave the discussion board completely open to everyone, but the amount of work to keep those few idiots out is simply too great.

What we need to do is have a single thread that is open to all and can be easily monitored.

I've seen the local issue raise a couple times now and I don't think that it is a valid argument for keeping the entire board open and this is why: Local players that have not found the level of commitment to join the PDGA should not be looking to the PDGA to provide what their local or regional club should be supplying. If their local or regional club is not supplying this then that is where the process should start.

Operating on an appropriate level; nationally, regionally, state/province, local. Local players should primarily rely on the local club until they are ready and willing to rely, and have a higher level of commitment to the next organizational level (whatever that may be).

Probably the single best thing about this development is that there should hopefully be an increase of direct, honest and respectful communication between players and organizers, a rarity within the old message board where anonymity seemed to promote indirect, witch-hunts devoid of any respect.

Having a more functional message board, devoid of the distractions, is not a punishment for the users that are PDGA Members.

PS: Though I support this move, I had no say in the policy change other than advisory.

Then what does Affiliate Club mean?
We utilized this option so that we could offer more to players on a local level by giving them a place to see local announcements, tournamnets, discussions, club meetings and so forth. This in turn shows them the bigger picture of whats out there for them. I know for FACT of people that have become members of the PDGA soley due to the interaction they had through the Affiliate program. We as the club use this as a feature to encourage membership.
With the new paramaters, we can only tell them they can look but they can't touch, unless they have $40.

****, where have I head that before?
I think it was at a bachalor party. :o

That being said, I think you need to admit that you are in no position to judge me or my skills other than my online persona, which is often, I have found nearly completely unrelated to a persons actual personality.





Keep living in denial, Nick. Your online persona, as well as that of many others, are an extension of your real-world self. And though people have tended to avoid confrontation with you in the past, they are beginning to speak their minds now - that you have poor professional, management, and people skills and should be in no position to lead anyone.



All I can say is that my poor skills get more done than your well developed ones... :D

Then what does Affiliate Club mean?
We utilized this option so that we could offer more to players on a local level by giving them a place to see local announcements, tournamnets, discussions, club meetings and so forth. This in turn shows them the bigger picture of whats out there for them. I know for FACT of people that have become members of the PDGA soley due to the interaction they had through the Affiliate program. We as the club use this as a feature to encourage membership.
With the new paramaters, we can only tell them they can look but they can't touch, unless they have $40.


Yes, an unfortunate but necessary development. One that hopefully your local, state or regional club will face when it develops a wildly successful message board. My understanding is that a PDGA Member will still be able to post announcements and that non-members will still be able to read the announcements. If those local players really are THAT interested in joining the discussions on the PDGA message board then they need to show their �new� level of commitment and support the board the same as every other user. This is not unreasonable, it is just new�

Frankly, the MFA hasn't found the PDGA Affiliate Club thread anywhere near as useful or popular as our Yahoo group which now has over 300 members including many in the region and throughout the country. Tulsa should get a Yahoo or other free online group set up. Let us know how to get in so you can keep all of us including your local players up-to-date with the activities leading to Am Worlds 2006.

Quick question Theo (or anyone involved with the PDGA)

I have my password and login saved on my home computer so I don't ever have to login when I come to the board. Obviouslly, since I posted, I found my PDGA card and logged in with my password.

My question - If I go to a different computer at a library or someones house or something like that, will I have to login using my PDGA number and that crazy password or can I just log in like normal?

...and employers all over the world are stumped at the increase in productivity today for some reason...

[/QUOTE]
Yes, an unfortunate but necessary development. One that hopefully your local, state or regional club will face when it develops a wildly successful message board.
I was trying to discuss a problem with you and this is exactly the non-professional smartazz remarks that I was addressing you about earlier. Why would you want local clubs to have the same problems if they were to try and develope their own message board?
Would that make you feel better?
Wow, you're offering a lot of support there.


So much for the Affiliate Club Program. :( I thought the purpose was to promote, now it seems to be more about control.

Your solution is "tough thats the way it is?"

Screw that.......and.......... well, you can assume where the rest of that statement is going, so I'll just stop there.


I'm done.

All I can say is that my poor skills get more done than your well developed ones... :D



Yes, I lack charisma, people skills, and leadership skills as well. But that is not the issue here. The real question is how much more would get done on a regional and national level without your presence. People avoid helping out and getting involved with these organizations partly because of you - and sometimes it is the sole reason.

Frankly, the MFA hasn't found the PDGA Affiliate Club thread anywhere near as useful or popular as our Yahoo group which now has over 300 members including many in the region and throughout the country. Tulsa should get a Yahoo or other free online group set up. Let us know how to get in so you can keep all of us including your local players up-to-date with the activities leading to Am Worlds 2006.



That's nice Chuck. I think we might do well to follow your lead. I think that we in Charlotte will not be renewing our Affiliate status. The PDGA will will lose out on our $20/yr and the 214 threads, 4484 posts and probably over 100,000 views. That is giving up an awful lot of online visibility for them.

Having our own message board was the only thing of value being an Affilate gained us. It is (was) nice to have a space where out-of touwners could easily find and access to keep up things.

And Tulsa has us beat - 217 threads, 23097 posts and 300,000+ views.

From the PDGA's perspective, can this be considered a positive suggestion from you?

One other aspect of the Affiliate thing that they will forfeit is the increased membership by roping them in with their $5 discount will also be gone when we do not renew.

I was not trying to be smartazz Dave. I do hope that you're local area is able to develop a very successful message board, so successful that you will face these same questions the PDGA is facing. Perhaps you will decide on a different direction, like total free speech, or heavy moderation, who knows.

The affiliate club program will still serve to spread information about what is going on in your local area, it will just come from PDGA Members in your area.

Nick- Your "level of commitment' comments are offensive, and an opinion at best. This boils down to money- and people are picky about what they spend their money on. By you insinuating people do not have the level of commitment because they do see the benefit of a membership- is just not right. These comments are partially what makes people have problems with the PDGA! I dont want someone telling me I am not committed, because I disagree with what I get for my money.


And I have heard your "I will play nice, now" routine too many times. You keep being told various negative things about your perception, you keep saying you will change- but here we are again!

Thanks. I think Tulsa has used the Affiliate Progam as it was intended. Even if you look at our local site. (http://www.tulsadiscsports.org/) we encourage people to join us at our discussion page. We have even had discussions here with local sponsors so they can see whats going on and how many people are interested in this sport.

Oh well. :(

Hey Grunion, I know you can see this and I know you will beat the system again. Guess what?

YOU WIN! :o

From the PDGA's perspective, can this be considered a positive suggestion from you?




Minnesota is one of the more active states in PDGA participation per capita and whether there's an Affiliate thread or not hasn't been important. Collecting the money for Affiliate dues has been a pain for the benefit. I'm not saying the Affiliate Club isn't a good idea, but the way it's set up could be better.

While some percentage of people like to participate in discussions, I believe the majority like the convenience of getting email message postings like the way Yahoo and other messaging groups operate. I would be much more efficient if I got a daily digest of posts to the Ratings topics delivered by email from the PDGA site rather than checking the website regularly.

Nick- Your "level of commitment' comments are offensive, and an opinion at best. This boils down to money- and people are picky about what they spend their money on. By you insinuating people do not have the level of commitment because they do see the benefit of a membership- is just not right. These comments are partially what makes people have problems with the PDGA! I dont want someone telling me I am not committed, because I disagree with what I get for my money.

And I have heard your "I will play nice, now" routine too many times. You keep being told various negative things about your perception, you keep saying you will change- but here we are again!



Josh, be honest, you, as a friend of Mike Crump and fellow conspiracy theorist, would find anything I say offensive.

You say that sending in your PDGA Membership fee is mainly a financial decision, as a volunteer on multiple levels I find that to be highly offensive and without a doubt pure opinion on your part. Becoming a PDGA Member, even if some financial considerations are involved, still, irrefutably shows that that person has made a certain level of �commitment� to organized disc golf. A commitment to support national and worldwide efforts to promote it. To be a part of it all ON THAT LEVEL.

If as YOU say folks do not have a commitment on that level, it does not make them bad folks, or of no value to the PDGA, it just means they have not yet found a reason to make a commitment to disc golf on that level.

This is not rocket science. Lot�s of people have strange ideas about joining or not joining; in the end though, they either have the level of commitment or they do not. Simple as pie.

The only reason So Cal was going to stay in the affiliate club program next year was to have access to our dedicated area here on the message board. The affiliate club program created a lot of extra work and the $5.00 discount was not worth the effort. We will be re-thinking our decision to simply pay the affiliate club fee to keep our forums active.

Quick question Theo (or anyone involved with the PDGA)

I have my password and login saved on my home computer so I don't ever have to login when I come to the board. Obviouslly, since I posted, I found my PDGA card and logged in with my password.

My question - If I go to a different computer at a library or someones house or something like that, will I have to login using my PDGA number and that crazy password or can I just log in like normal?



Once you've validated your account, you won't have to do it again (unless you let your membership expire, of course!), and you can log in normally from any computer with just your message board login and password.

-Theo

thanks

No surpise you have missed the point, Nick.

For the record, I found your attitude pompus and your posts to be full of an attitude many dont approve of long before Grunion ever started playing disc golf....and I have told you so, many times.

So members only now. Great idea...

The PDGA basically couldn't stop Grunion from doing what he wanted with his 50 or so fake accounts so they squashed all non-members from posting. I know it wasn't all one guy that caused this but his is the only name that comes up in all these reasons why it's members only. We now have an almost foolproof ban on Grunion. We now have an almost foolproof ban on all the non-members that did have something important and useful to say.

Awesome.

Let's cut off several people that did have constructive input so we can stop one guy thats causing all kinds of controversy and chaos.

Does the end fit the means?

Looks like Grunion wins anyway to me even though he's no longer here. He almost singlehandedly caused the PDGA to change its policies just to stop him.

Really cool.

Congratulations Grunion. I'm sure you're still out there reading this.

Frankly, the MFA hasn't found the PDGA Affiliate Club thread anywhere near as useful or popular as our Yahoo group which now has over 300 members including many in the region and throughout the country. Tulsa should get a Yahoo or other free online group set up. Let us know how to get in so you can keep all of us including your local players up-to-date with the activities leading to Am Worlds 2006.



That's nice Chuck. I think we might do well to follow your lead. I think that we in Charlotte will not be renewing our Affiliate status. The PDGA will will lose out on our $20/yr and the 214 threads, 4484 posts and probably over 100,000 views. That is giving up an awful lot of online visibility for them.

Having our own message board was the only thing of value being an Affilate gained us. It is (was) nice to have a space where out-of touwners could easily find and access to keep up things.

And Tulsa has us beat - 217 threads, 23097 posts and 300,000+ views.

From the PDGA's perspective, can this be considered a positive suggestion from you?

One other aspect of the Affiliate thing that they will forfeit is the increased membership by roping them in with their $5 discount will also be gone when we do not renew.


Dave, how about waiting until there's a vote by CDGC members before we deceide not to renew. I've seen Matt and you post your dislike of the new change on the message board, and I'm not totally convenced it's so bad, yet. It's not even 24 hours, have we seen that big of a decline in use? I don't know the numbers of nonmembers that used the CDGC affliate club site and none of us know the impact it will/ will not have just yet. And since nonmembers can still view all of the posts, will info not be available? How about posting your e-mail or phone # so all of the nonmembers can call you (the info guy) with any questions they may have that isn't already posted/ e-mailed to CDGC members/ on the CDGC web site? (JK) I don't know yet if a PDGA members only message board is going to a good thing or not. At this time, I just don't see it as the end of life as we know it.

give it a chance folks.

the pdga is well aware of the impact this will have on affiliate clubs, and is working on that.

remember that members of affiliate clubs already get $5 off pdga dues. so those affected will be the non-pdga members of the clubs who wish to post.

i am also fairly certain that other forms of membership are under consideration that could allow posting priviledges.

just relax, let things settle, and hang in there.

as the person who spent 10 hours today getting people their passwords from their lost cards (!), i can tell you that the sentiment is running about 5:1 in favor of this change.

this isnt the last change i'm sure. things will work out fine

Dave, how about waiting until there's a vote by CDGC members before we deceide not to renew. I've seen Matt and you post your dislike of the new change on the message board, and I'm not totally convenced it's so bad, yet. It's not even 24 hours, have we seen that big of a decline in use? I don't know the numbers of nonmembers that used the CDGC affliate club site and none of us know the impact it will/ will not have just yet. And since nonmembers can still view all of the posts, will info not be available?



Rob - of course this will go to club leadership before we make a final decision. I just posted what my recommendation to the club will be.

The reason I would recommend having our own discussion board is that all CDGC members need the ability to discuss, not just read. We value all club members' ideas, comments, etc. regardless of their membership status with the PDGA.

Off the top of my head here are some the posters that will be affected: Berndog, Joy4lly (might be able to create a handle via wit), Helms, Stick, Stack. All of these folks are an integral part of the scene and have donated a ton of value to the club.

On top of that, I think a forum that feels more private and targeted might actually get more involvement and chatter going among a wider population of Charlotte area golfers.

I love the PDGA and what they do for the game that is our addiction. I just think that it might be a good time to use this transition to move to bigger and better things as far as online communication is concerned.

I thought stick was a member. He was at Mid nats and it was a Major

thats a different stick, the one you are referring to is from Raleigh.

Oh how many do you guys have? :D

I'm sure Grunion's check is in the mail and we will see him on this board in 6 weeks. He really just wants the attention.

I have heard from a few players that say they will never renew now that the PDGA is trying to control everything!! I am just re-stating what I have heard

Quick question Theo (or anyone involved with the PDGA)

I have my password and login saved on my home computer so I don't ever have to login when I come to the board. Obviouslly, since I posted, I found my PDGA card and logged in with my password.

My question - If I go to a different computer at a library or someones house or something like that, will I have to login using my PDGA number and that crazy password or can I just log in like normal?



yes its by IP address. The PDGA really needs an IT person with skills other then MySQL,Cobalt & Perl.

Quick question Theo (or anyone involved with the PDGA)

I have my password and login saved on my home computer so I don't ever have to login when I come to the board. Obviouslly, since I posted, I found my PDGA card and logged in with my password.

My question - If I go to a different computer at a library or someones house or something like that, will I have to login using my PDGA number and that crazy password or can I just log in like normal?



yes its by IP address. The PDGA really needs an IT person with skills other then MySQL,Cobalt & Perl.



I wouldnt be so quick in saying its about IP addys. If that were in fact the case, the IP addy could have been banned from the discussion site instead of all the running around looking for the next new name used by a banned user. Of course with that statement, I assume, the mods now how to do that, or at least the software allows for it.

I am posting from work right now, I just typed in my old user name and password and it worked (thank goodness, I would be going crazy right now)

As far as the board, I after today, I really think it will keep going on, maybe as strong as ever, BUT we now have accountability and when you say something about someone, we will all know who it is.

yes its by IP address. The PDGA really needs an IT person with skills other then MySQL,Cobalt &amp; Perl.


THIS IS COMPLETELY FALSE!

you can go to another computer and as long as you know your MESSAGE BOARD login and password (not your pdga stuff) you will be fine.

it has nothing to do with IP. it has to do with a PDGA Number being validated.

Kozak, obviously you do not know how this rthing works.

and btw, COBALT is an element. COBOL is a language, which happens to have exactly zero to do with this website or message board.

people, PLEASE choose wisely when deciding to whom to listen.

So.............

Since I saw Weedfish post, we know that he obviouslly is a PDGA member and although most people have a good idea who he is, we are not for sure.

So I clicked on his profile and there was no PDGA number....

If its not required to display your PDGA number, whats the point of all this....this still doesn't tell us who posts every post.

In joining/renewing with the PDGA, it is very exciting to see the National Disc Golf Center take shape, as well as the Disc Golf Hall of Fame museum and the Championship level courses. The USA Network's clip of the USDGC was awesome! "Disc golf is only getting bigger" as they stated in the clip. We, as disc golfers, are making a name for this sport. Where does the money come from for these growth advances??? Our memberships only help in the growth of this sport, which the PDGA is doing a fine job. Support the sport!!

So.............

Since I saw Weedfish post, we know that he obviouslly is a PDGA member and although most people have a good idea who he is, we are not for sure.

So I clicked on his profile and there was no PDGA number....

If its not required to display your PDGA number, whats the point of all this....this still doesn't tell us who posts every post.

this was a timing fluke, one in a millionshot that happened as we were updating code last nite. it will be fixed quite shortly.

So.............

Since I saw Weedfish post, we know that he obviouslly is a PDGA member and although most people have a good idea who he is, we are not for sure.

So I clicked on his profile and there was no PDGA number....

If its not required to display your PDGA number, whats the point of all this....this still doesn't tell us who posts every post.




Thanks NARC boy.

I've had to validate twice???

I am sure to get flamed for this but here goes.
In my 3rd year playing and my 2nd year of pdga membership I am sad to see this happen. I know it WILL weed out unwanted posters but I learned alot from this board by askin questions and even met people from across the country whom which I meet up with if they are town for a tourney. I feel this is a great place for a new player to come and become addicted to the sport more so than just playing locally. I will renew and continue to support the PDGA but I don't feel this is doing anything but pushing away new players. I will agree that their are plenty of people posting who should be banned and post some very obnoxious things that can be negative for our sport but the positive outweighs the negative by far in my opinion. Most new players don't play a sanctioned tournament right away so have no ambition to join PDGA so they will be unable to ask questions to learn more about the sport. I understand the effort of time and money involved with running the boards and that this is an easyway out to eliminate unwanted posters, but I think that the moderators do a fine job of doing this already. Does it really need to be this way? sorry but had to put in my 2 cents worth.... now go ahead and slam me posters.

$40 aint that hard, peoples...

$40 aint that hard, peoples...


I am a member just giving my 2 cents worth.

what he said

you can make $40 working an hour of overtime

Most new players don't play a sanctioned tournament right away so have no ambition to join PDGA so they will be unable to ask questions to learn more about the sport.



Members and nonmembers can go to the PDGA Contact page to select someone capable of answering questions: http://www.pdga.com/contact.php

Most manufacturer links are right on the PDGA Home page where anyone can get questions answered regarding disc products.

yes its by IP address. The PDGA really needs an IT person with skills other then MySQL,Cobalt & Perl.


THIS IS COMPLETELY FALSE!

you can go to another computer and as long as you know your MESSAGE BOARD login and password (not your pdga stuff) you will be fine.

it has nothing to do with IP. it has to do with a PDGA Number being validated.

Kozak, obviously you do not know how this rthing works.

and btw, COBALT is an element. COBOL is a language, which happens to have exactly zero to do with this website or message board.

people, PLEASE choose wisely when deciding to whom to listen.



This guy is in La La land. I think i know a little more about IT than you do. Go to a system that has never been to www.pdga.com. (http://www.pdga.com.) Login see what happens.

My references to COBOL and Perl were merely comical.

Yesterday I received my membership package in the mail. I understand that in order to cut costs, it can take up to 6 weeks. It did, I am fine with that, I am in no hurry. The first thing I noticed was that my DGWN had only one staple in it. After a brief once over, it is about to fall apart. First impression of membership = not so good.

Yesterday was also the day that I realized that the PDGA had decided to limit the forum to members. All that I will say there is that I never would have joined if I hadn�t been able to check out the forum, learn more about disc golf and the PDGA. Now, others like me will probably not join.

Yes, $40 is not that much money, that is not at all what I am debating. $8 isn�t all that much money, but the Board decided that they shouldn�t force an extra $3 on non-members for tourneys. For the casual player, this is just another barrier to joining the PDGA. Free speech shouldn�t cost $40.

hysell - you should convince tiZZle to change his avatar... I think he must have a crush on you. besides, now when i see a license plate avatar, im instantly predisposed to show my ***** to him, instead of enjoying yet another amusing or informative post of yours.

The boards are not off limits to non-members. Posting priviledges are. New players can still read the boards. And perhaps the organization will look into having an area for non-members to post in the future. I think that would have been the best option but I don't know if it was/is possible.

As I posted earlier, there are no governing bodies of disc sports or ball golf that I could find that allow posting by nonmembers and most do not even have message boards. All have the ability to contact their leaders to get questions answered by phone, letter or email.

I agree with the first few posts on this thread. It is about time. I think this is a move in the best direction. I do hope that some of the more hilarious posters return soon. I also wished they would have given a little more notice (like a week) on the date that it was going to occur and what would be needed for the initial sign-in. I was lucky my PDGA was in my purse rather than my disc golf bag. I would not be able to make it through a stressful work day without some of the laughter I get from some of the posts or the satisfaction and mental images I get from reading some of the more disc golf related posts.
Thanks, PDGA, for the change.
Congrats (I guess) to Pat for the Administrator title. Don't think I'd noticed that previously.

In the words of the weddingsinger....this one is for Grunion....

"I now have a microphone and you don't....."

"SO YOU WILL LISTEN TO EVERYTHING I HAVE TO SAY!!!!!" :cool::D

As I posted earlier, there are no governing bodies of disc sports or ball golf that I could find that allow posting by nonmembers and most do not even have message boards. All have the ability to contact their leaders to get questions answered by phone, letter or email.



If all the governing bodies of disc and golf sports jumped off a bridge, does that mean the PDGA should?

If all the governing bodies of disc and golf sports jumped off a bridge, does that mean the PDGA should?



No, but did you consider those other successful groups like the PGA might have learned something worth emulating?

could you show me the link to the official pga forum? I can't find it.

Here's the UK one: www.pga.info (http://www.pga.info)

Chcuk, I should have known that getting into a website finding match with you would be like getting into a bible quoting match with a nun. Thanks for finding the site. I couldn't log on, but I will try later and check it out.

I will never for a moment believe that restricting posts is beneficial to the PDGA. Yes, there are some people out there that are rude, obnoxious and I don�t bother paying attention too. But the minority opinions that are expressed on the forum echo a lot of feelings about disc golf from people who aren�t online. These opinions are valuable. I think we should take the good (95%+) with the bad (-5%) and ignore what truly bothers us.

Free the forum.

The boards are not off limits to non-members. Posting priviledges are. New players can still read the boards. And perhaps the organization will look into having an area for non-members to post in the future. I think that would have been the best option but I don't know if it was/is possible.



Very well put, Tony. I can't believe I almost got to the end of this whole thread (which took 30 minutes to read, and which probably needs refreshing as 5 new posts probably made it as i was reading) without someone reitterating that ANYONE can still VIEW posts. To some people, $40 is probably a good piece of change. I'd like to argue that anyone who has access to post on a forum via a computer probably is intelligent enough to find a way to make $40.
That's beside the point though. I wish people would realize more that the $40 is an investment into this sport's future. I don't know if the economics are right or wrong (if there'd be twice as many members if it were half the price), but just think if there were twice as many members. There would be twice as many awesome events, twice as many great TD's, and twice as many friends to the family.

Don't complain so much about the move...I don't think it's that big of a deal either way, but for those who want value for the $40, I guess they're trying to go for that appeal.

Even if I just played in one tournament a year, I'd still renew. It's helping the sport grow. Yeah, the leadership of the organization may make decisions that not all people like, but I think most of them have benefited the sport. Because of the nature of the organization, I think they've been pretty successful.

Thanks for all of your hard work.

To those whining and reading and unable to post, join to support the sport you love.

And BTW, this was hilarious too:

"I now have a microphone and you don't....."

"SO YOU WILL LISTEN TO EVERYTHING I HAVE TO SAY!!!!!"

I do miss many of those who will no longer be on here.

But this is the PDGA message board, for things RELATED to disc golf. Too much garbage was posted by non-members, that had nothing to do with disc golf. There are plenty of other discussion boards where they could meet to talk about whatever.

I have been on this forum for a few years, and know that there are many lurkers out there who only rarely post, but often read(I was once one of these). These people do constitute a sizeable amount of the board's readers, and they are not being harmed at all by the change.

What I like most about the new system is accountablility. I really hate anonymous posters, especially when they have the ability to post under many names. Some are/were well known- MTL's other name(s), CuTT. But many others posted offensive content without anyone knowing their name.

I had a lot less problems with say: Jason, Mikey, Nick who may say offensive things, BECAUSE they post under their own name, and take responsibility for what they say.


Thanks for the changes.

I agree with sandelman....patience doesnt seem to be a virtue many on this board have.....give it a chance. Some people were acting like their oh-so precarious decision to join the PDGA was based on what happens to/on the message board :confused: Or now, members wont renew their membership or volunteer/support PDGA events because they feel opressed or censored :confused: Please! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif If this message board affects your PDGA feelings so much...maybe this organization is not for you:eek: Join/participate because of what they do for the sport...not some silly message board.

As far as non-members not being able to ask questions anymore?...I think its a small price to pay. Some did contribute to constructive conversation. However, most every throwing/technique/equipment question can be answered by taking your discs to an open field and learning them...by playing more. BlakeT's website is also a great resource (a link to his site can be found under the 'Equipment' section) Other quesitons dont require this message board to be answered

I think it was a good decision...and NOT done in hast. Im sure most ever consequence was discussed regaring this decision. I would have left a non-member section to post in...maybe that will happen one day. Let it play itself out...see what happens. But, I think for now, its for the better.

Also, where's Pimp? I am surprised that he hasnt posted any response yet :confused:

Also, where's Pimp? I am surprised that he hasnt posted any response yet :confused:



I think he is still looking for his membership card. :o;)

I think he is still looking for his membership card.



He said he threw it at least 500 feet and then couldn't find it in the schule...

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

:D

Now that is comedy!

(slight thread drift) and, for those that think the memberhsip fee is too much.....it works out to about <font color="red">11 pennies </font> a day for AM's :eek:

...and about <font color="red">15 pennies </font> a day for Pro's :eek:

Or 41 cents per day for us Ace Club members. :D

Definately not enough to whine and gripe about. Or set up an entire new semi-copied website about.

No wonder your pizza is so expensive. ;)

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Can we at least have our posted post counts back , now!! :D



They are still there, just harder to find. As of 11/22/05 2:15pm for ESALAZAR: 734 threads, 5216 posts

guess which state has the most goofballs who cant findtheir cards:


<table border="1"><tr><td>AL</td><td>1
</td></tr><tr><td>CA</td><td>8
</td></tr><tr><td>CO</td><td>2
</td></tr><tr><td>FL</td><td>1
</td></tr><tr><td>IA</td><td>1
</td></tr><tr><td>IL</td><td>6
</td></tr><tr><td>KS</td><td>2
</td></tr><tr><td>MD</td><td>3
</td></tr><tr><td>ME</td><td>1
</td></tr><tr><td>MI</td><td>3
</td></tr><tr><td>MN</td><td>1
</td></tr><tr><td>NC</td><td>5
</td></tr><tr><td>OK</td><td>4
</td></tr><tr><td>SC</td><td>2
</td></tr><tr><td>TN</td><td>1
</td></tr><tr><td>TX</td><td>17
</td></tr><tr><td>WI</td><td>1
</td></tr><tr><td></tr></td></table>


why am i not surprised!!! :D :D

Im surprised no one from IN?!? Am I the only regular poster from IN left on this board?

What's that card for anyways?


In all seriousness, can we have more than one login name under our one pdga #? I'd like to resurrect my Ebay alias "Capital--Q".

It's little wonder our message board has been screwed, just look at the PDGA Board of Directors who made this decision:


http://www.mag-o.com/images/small-time-crooks.jpg

Yes, Pat, but we are also the state with the most people that usually post on a regular basis. Aren't we?

Im surprised no one from IN?!? Am I the only regular poster from IN left on this board?

those numbers are just the ones who lost their membership cards and had to request help. actually, most posters are validated and alive and well.

[QUOTE]
actually, most posters are validated and alive and well.

Right so really this change wasn't that big of a deal. Except for those who can't find their cards.

you can have as many message board accounts as youwant.

they will all be tied to your PDGA number though.

hopefully they all wont have the Fat Man Dancing avatar :)

and we are down to about a 15-30 minute response or so for those who cant find their cards and send an email to the lostpassword address. yesterday was a bit tough, but today is running at less than 25% of yesterday for lost password requests.

Yes, Pat, but we are also the state with the most people that usually post on a regular basis. Aren't we?

it seems that way. i would have write a rather gnarly query to provide real numbers, because the data is in two separate databases, making it tough to join together. lemme think about that one.

I think someone said earlier that you were limited to one account per email address. I haven't tested that though.

per email address, yes. per pdga number ,no.

and email addresses are free for the taking at yahoo, hotmail, gmail, and on and on and on.

Dave, you have no right to state that you "think that we in Charlotte will not be renewing". I am a little bent at that comment. Please keep your posts as your opinions and if there are club decisions to be made we can make them as a team. I have read a whole bunch of knee jerk reactionary comments and a whole lot of them have very little to do with knees. Perhaps we will and perhaps we won't. Tell us how you feel and not what we are going to do.

Well, one thing is for certain, this old mess is just as entertaining as always.

Seeing Stan and other rare posters post is a treat. Maybe Kirk will start posting again?

What is up with the alias' though. What is so strange with using your real name?

whys an alias matter if you can click on their pdga number on their profile and see their real name?

That is what I was going to say. I am not one of those who is hiding since my name is there to see. That is my moniker here in Charlotte, the #1 Mule, because that is how I have worked over the years, like a mule. At 51, I probably should be the old gray mule now, (Silverback to those in Raleigh), but I still manage to turn out a fair amount of work. By the way I have a great cast of guys here in Charlotte who really bust their butts. One of whom I just smacked around a little bit in my previous post, but let it be known, he is a hard working guy who does a lot for us here in Charlotte and I probably should have kept my rebuke for a face to face or different forum.

I just wish that this wasn't done with less than 6 weeks to go before the end of the year, if the end of the year stops current memberships and it may take up to 6 weeks to get next year's membership processed.

Will there be some grace period to allow for membership processing time?

passwords dont change when the new year arrives

there is a discussion about a grace period, but Theo will have to formally address/announce that here when the decision is made.

What is up with the alias' though. What is so strange with using your real name?



In my experience with message boards, it is more strange to post using your real name.

I like many of the unusual and interesting user names I have seen on this board over the years.

yes its by IP address. The PDGA really needs an IT person with skills other then MySQL,Cobalt & Perl.


THIS IS COMPLETELY FALSE!

you can go to another computer and as long as you know your MESSAGE BOARD login and password (not your pdga stuff) you will be fine.

it has nothing to do with IP. it has to do with a PDGA Number being validated.

Kozak, obviously you do not know how this rthing works.

and btw, COBALT is an element. COBOL is a language, which happens to have exactly zero to do with this website or message board.

people, PLEASE choose wisely when deciding to whom to listen.



I have had to revalidate at every computer that I use. It is a pain in the [I'm a potty-mouth!]. I hope I won't have to do this when my IP address changes next.

Well, my old ID (robj) and posts were deleted in the website crash, hopefully Conrad will be able to restore me. Till then this is my ID. Pat, if you are still interested in my limited edition USADGC Glow Z Tracker -- let me know, i lost all our PM's...

I think it's a crying shame that Blake T. and fore (Felix Sung) -- two of the best presences on this site -- are now excluded.

My suggestion was that part of the message board be open to anyone, and have another part for members only. Since newbies (potential future members) and mainstays like Blake and Felix are presently shut out, maybe the PDGA will reconsider the wisdom of this new website policy... :confused:

My opinion: I like the new members only board. Losing the avalanche of no content msgs is a plus. An "anybody can post" newbie thread is not a bad idea.

My previous msg bd personna (nocoloco (northern colorado low country(disc golf))) was also deleted in the last crash and also has not been restored. No big loss.

What was/is irritating was the fact that I was unable to create a new id and rcvd no response from the pdga to the numerous emails I sent asking for help to create a new id or restore the old id. A "no response" translates negatively.

Pat responded really fast on the "don't know my password email" and that generates good vibes. Thanks Pat.

Next topic: Hey Terry how about treating us as adults again and get rid of the "[I'm a potty mouth]". That is denigrating and condescending. Now that we are all accountable members of the same disc golf family there is no need to treat us with disrespect. There was no good reason to disrespect us before, but now your argument is even weaker.

In fact now that we are all accountable, how about losing the c-e-n-s-o-r-s-h-i-p altogether?

yes its by IP address. The PDGA really needs an IT person with skills other then MySQL,Cobalt & Perl.


THIS IS COMPLETELY FALSE!

you can go to another computer and as long as you know your MESSAGE BOARD login and password (not your pdga stuff) you will be fine.

it has nothing to do with IP. it has to do with a PDGA Number being validated.

Kozak, obviously you do not know how this rthing works.

and btw, COBALT is an element. COBOL is a language, which happens to have exactly zero to do with this website or message board.

people, PLEASE choose wisely when deciding to whom to listen.



I have had to revalidate at every computer that I use. It is a pain in the [I'm a potty-mouth!]. I hope I won't have to do this when my IP address changes next.


I havent. Ive logged in at a few diff. comps with no problem at all.

Validated once and have accessed from home and work without having to revalidate.

which state has the most renewed board users? TEXAS!!!

testing

Testing Testing...MTL you out there?? :eek:

Hey this is Joy4lly... I am not a member and don't plan on becoming one..Wit has offered to buy me membership for a couple of years now, but I don't play the sport I only spectate and don't care to spend that much money to spectate...but hey I can still post under Wit's login name if I choose to.. .. and sign my name at the bottom.. I haven't even read this board in weeks and weeks..No sweat on this end..

SwitzerDan ..hello to ya!!!! See ya when you return to the US.

*Disclaimer* Joy4lly is posting this not Wit.

JOY

First started playing DG in '96-'97. Played exclusively with my friends that I turned on to the game. Started participating on this message board in early '99-'00 and soon thereafter became a PDGA member. The reason I joined the PDGA was 100% due to the interaction I had with other members on this message board. I took what I learned here and convinced my buddies to join the PDGA also.

I think the elitist move to make this entire board a 'members only' area is a mistake. My impression of the PDGA has grown steadily more negative over time.

Nick Kight - you are a negative influence on many, many people. I know you say you don't care because you are just having fun on a message board and this isn't real life. I can't believe the PDGA lets you act as their official voice on so many levels. You really turn people off and you are getting worse. Back in the day when you would go at it with Randy Wimm, I was amused. Now your constant tirades with anyone that doesn't walk the official PDGA line is nauseating. If you really love DG and want the PDGA to grow as much as you say, try not posting so much and letting the rest of the world try to work some issues out.

It seems this is my last post on this board. I will not be renewing my membership this year. This also means my buddies will not be renewing as I was the force behind their memberships.

yo Joy4lly, use a different email address and register yourself using Wit's password...

Now there's a way of getting around the issue. Somebody could register a new PDGA member, heck, even a junior (save money) and then SELL their password to folks who want to post.

There is always a work around, and an opportunity to profit.

I will not be doing this, but I see how it could be done.

passwords dont change when the new year arrives

there is a discussion about a grace period, but Theo will have to formally address/announce that here when the decision is made.

We'll be expecting that announcement on December 31 then?

I think the elitist move to make this entire board a 'members only' area is a mistake. My impression of the PDGA has grown steadily more negative over time.



Go try to post on the "elitist" PGA board and see how far you get. Nonmember posting was tried by the PDGA even though no other national sanctioning groups in disc sports or ball golf either have discussion boards, allow nonmembers to post or even allow nonmembers to even see the discussion in some cases.

If membership means something, then at least some things need to be members only. The PDGA already provides many services for nonmembers which will eventually include the new National Center along with rules, equipment standards, course development, evaluation and assistance, tournaments, scheduling and viewing this discussion board to name several.

So enjoy your free nonmember benefits provided by those mostly volunteers who bust it for the sport on a national level and try to do their best when there's no way everyone can be satisfied. In fact, the best most leaders can do in this country for any endeavor is slightly tick off all of their constituents a little bit due to the diversity of views allowed by our freedoms. In most cases, one answer will never satisfy everyone which makes the challenge of "herding cats" analogy appropriate in most cases.

Now there's a way of getting around the issue. Somebody could register a new PDGA member, heck, even a junior (save money) and then SELL their password to folks who want to post. There is always a work around, and an opportunity to profit.




Hate to see someone's membership revoked over abusing the privilege but should it happen, I can see dragging the Disciplinary Committee into resolving these issues like any other courtesy (and more) violations at an event.

It would appear that the PDGA doesnt want to make money.

Disc golf isnt in any position to turn away revenue in anyway shape or form. This decision will be a costly one. I plan on renewing my membership but know of many who are not. :( :( :(

you can have as many message board accounts as youwant.

they will all be tied to your PDGA number though.





does that mean that if somebody ... let's call him "Pat" ... wants to vote ten times in a 2 meter rule poll he can set up ten email accounts and vote ten times? :o If a "pat" does this, i hope there is a "Nick" out there to vote ten times the other way! LOL :D

Chuck, great post.

Danny, your decision not to renew sounds right for you.
If you based your membership TOTALLY on this screwy message board, then it sounds like you're wasting your money. There are plenty of forums, blogs, and message boards for which you can simply register and use for free.

well, "pat" would have to have different computers with different IPs because poll responses ARE tracked by IP address.

(or "pat" would have to know how to bounce off a proxy server in order to spoof the IP address :) )

but no "pat"s i know of know about any of that of course :D

good answer :D

Chuck, great post.

Danny, your decision not to renew sounds right for you.
If you based your membership TOTALLY on this screwy message board, then it sounds like you're wasting your money. There are plenty of forums, blogs, and message boards for which you can simply register and use for free.



Boom. That's it right there. I think it might have been a mistake to not tie the discussion board to a PDGA number as a requirement from the onset, but it did need to happen eventually.

There are too many freeloaders in the DG world already.

Think about this:
How many times have PDGA members picked up trash that was left by casual/non-member players?
How many new courses have been either installed, worked on, or lobbied for (from a parks dept.) by PDGA members that have been used mostly by casual/non-member players?
How many stolen baskets (almost certainly stolen by non-members) have been replaced with donations/club funds from mostly PDGA members?

The only reason disc golf is thriving as it is with more new courses, and more new players (which I think is a direct result of the new courses) is due to the family that is the PDGA. Through tournaments and local club activities, funds are raised to maintain courses and help plan/install new ones. Also through the same efforts, countless charities are benefited.

I have no problem letting casual players use courses for free; I think it's great to see people enjoying something that I am helping support. It disappoints me that so many of them don't take care of something provided to them for free, but that's the way the world works. What I do have a problem with is that people expect something [this message board] for free.

There are many people out there that do give back to the communitiy and do support their local clubs (albeit not the PDGA through membership) that are exceptions to this case, and I wish I could grant them that exception. I also wish they somehow could find the funds to support their beloved sport with a membership, but I understand some people value that $40 differently than I do.

I'm surprised to see that there are so many members that feel differently, and seem to think this is about as negative a thing as can be done, but I hope that's not the majority. If you step back and look at it like I have, there's no reason this shouldn't have been done.

You could say that the PDGA should close all courses to PDGA members only because there's so much vandalism and trashing by non-members. But THAT is not a good idea. It seems that's the way most people are taking the "closing" of the discussion board. Please don't. It's a great resource, and since membership DIRECTLY provides it, membership should decide who should get to use it.


More than my $.02, but don't spend it all in one place.

Go try to post on the "elitist" PGA board and see how far you get. Nonmember posting was tried by the PDGA even though no other national sanctioning groups in disc sports or ball golf either have discussion boards, allow nonmembers to post or even allow nonmembers to even see the discussion in some cases.



<font color="blue"> when our top pros make seven or eight figures, when we already have the national tour on mainstream television, and when there is a huge amateur disc golf base, your comparison will be more congruent </font>


If membership means something, then at least some things need to be members only. The PDGA already provides many services for nonmembers which will eventually include the new National Center along with rules, equipment standards, course development, evaluation and assistance, tournaments, scheduling and viewing this discussion board to name several.



<font color="blue"> there is no reason a portion of this site couldn't have been made into a "members only" area for those who find many anonymous postings too objectionable and unaccountable. that would have in turn not thrown the babies out with the bathwater. to scrub out the illustrious presence here of a Felix Sung (formerly aka: "fore") or Blake T. in the effort to rid ourselves of some of the scum collecting around the sides of the proverbial message board tub is a SAD approach. Add in the fact that this approach scrubs out all new players young and old coming here to get information or that are becoming interested in our organization and our sport, and it becomes a counterintuitive and self-defeating approach. I hope those who made this decision won't become too defensive to admit the drawbacks of becoming so exclusive </font>


So enjoy your free nonmember benefits provided by those mostly volunteers who bust it for the sport on a national level and try to do their best when there's no way everyone can be satisfied. In fact, the best most leaders can do in this country for any endeavor is slightly tick off all of their constituents a little bit due to the diversity of views allowed by our freedoms. In most cases, one answer will never satisfy everyone which makes the challenge of "herding cats" analogy appropriate in most cases.



<font color="blue"> why would anyone try to herd cats? a zen master once said that the best way to control a cow is to give it a spacious meadow. why doesn't the board do that with non-members? </font>

I think I understand why the PDGA decided to clamp down on who gets to post what, but it seems a hollow reason to me if Nick's abuses are still allowed to continue.

If his words are permitted on this board, and no effort is made by the PDGA to discipline or restrain him, then I don't see why any action was taken against anyone else.

Add in the fact that this approach scrubs out all new players young and old coming here to get information or that are becoming interested in our organization and our sport, and it becomes a counterintuitive and self-defeating approach. I hope those who made this decision won't become too defensive to admit the drawbacks of becoming so exclusive



The whole PDGA site remains open to anyone. No player is excluded from gathering information. Almost no websites allow public posting. Try posting how much you like Microsoft software on their website. No organization willingly supports public abuse online but virtually all of them provide methods for confidential feedback to their leaders. The PDGA is no different.

Even having nonmember posting on a single thread would be trouble. John Duesler will be seeking large corporate sponsors to partner with the pro tour, an activity which our members constantly request as a priority. Pete May and others are seeking deep pocket donors for the new NDGC endowment fund. I would be and have been embarrassed to send any one of those potential donors/sponsors to our current website, knowing what lurks on the Discussion pages. And I've heard this from several major tournament directors reluctant to let sponsors visit our site.

The possible loss of potential sponsors who can move our sport forward more than offsets the threats of players not renewing due to 'member only' posting. And, it's not just the funding these potential sponsors bring but their respect and support for our efforts and the sport itself.

Go try to post on the "elitist" PGA board and see how far you get. Nonmember posting was tried by the PDGA even though no other national sanctioning groups in disc sports or ball golf either have discussion boards, allow nonmembers to post or even allow nonmembers to even see the discussion in some cases.


Chuck -- I usually agree with most of what you post on this board but on this I have to heavily disagree. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this new policy was a reaction to some of the inflammatory posts and abuse of the PDGA on the board. But the way to deal with this IMHO opinion is to discourage anonymous postings (by tying postings to a functioning e-mail address) and better monitoring so that some of the more ridiculous posts don't stay up. I can tell you as someone "in the trenches" that most of the golfers where I live only join the PDGA if they are interested in competitive play -- this is a different (and much smaller) group from those who come to work parties out on the course and the causal players who help keep the course clean. I think the PDGA needs to think hard about how this new policy effect the newbies, i.e. the people we are counting on to grow this sport so that we eventually will not have to keep fighting the same battles over and over again.

Chuck, probably you were already a disc golf enthusiast before the website took shape. I wasn't. Interacting on this website sold me on becoming a member and got me hooked on plastic. Had i only been allowed to read what others wrote here, i don't know that i would still be playing nor an annual member.

Interacting here is much different than passively reading the posts. I still say an area could be devoted to members-only, while another area could be retained for non-members. a link to the members-only would require a log-in in order that it not be 'read-only' access. (actually i'm not very IT competent, but i do know where there's a will there's a way).

i doubt deep-pocketed doners expect a squeaky clean message board if it's not exclusive. while some donors may like exclusivity, others will not. Maybe we could make a pretend message board where only blue bloods post and give a link to it to potential sponsors... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Microsoft takes enough abuse on many other websites but would be foolish to allow it on their site. I and other PDGA leaders already put up with regular abuse behind the scenes via phone and email. The PDGA needs to act more professional if it wants to be perceived as more professional. Do you or your Park Depts allow those "free speech" vandal messages to remain around your courses or do you remove them?

Microsoft takes enough abuse on many other websites but would be foolish to allow it on their site. I and other PDGA leaders already put up with regular abuse behind the scenes via phone and email. The PDGA needs to act more professional if it wants to be perceived as more professional. Do you or your Park Depts allow those "free speech" vandal messages to remain around your courses or do you remove them?



we clean them up, and if the guilty parties are caught they may get banned. we don't create a rule that only card carrying members may enter the park. afterall, to do so would ban many people who come in and clean or beautify the park despite not being in the clique.

we clean them up,



Exactly. Unforunately, the PDGA doesn't have the resources to police this Board and clean it up, especially when it's possible to almost reduce the site "vandalism" in the first place by limiting to nonmembers.

Chuck, no offense, but the BOD's role should not be patrolling the messageboards. We, the card carrying members can actively take part in the messageboard and act in an empowered role to counteract spammers, nasty posts, uncouthe behavior et al. Each forum section can get a lead administrator, who can, in tern, designate other admins. It happens on a lot of other sites, and it works well. Sometimes one person can't do it all, they can choose to share the task with another member.

By hording all of the messageboard administrative duties, you are simply overloading a small group of people, and possibly turning them into "the bad guy". By distributing the task of messageboard admin across a wider base, you are minimizing the demand for each admin, empowering people who step up to the task, possibly nurturing a future leader in our sport, and maybe, just maybe, making the average board poster feel a little less "watched" when a message is deleted or moved.

Also, Other boards have created a "pit of doom" or "Asbestos Lined Room", basically, a place where all those nasty conversations that get out of hand end up. Maybe this becomes a members only room, maybe it's admin only, but either way, these posts have their place, even if they burn people's britches. We learn from them, quite often, rebukes to unadulterated attacks are constructive, not just defensive.

As far as the future of the board goes...

I think we should possibly add to the "terms of use" for the messageboard. Add in policies against spamming, multiple accounts tied to certain IP addresses, anonymous posting of unacceptable content can result in member removal of NON PDGA MEMBERS. Etc etc. Just because we are the ONLY (which I doubt) organization that has a free for all messageboard doesn't mean we should sway with the wind and create a member exclusive board, it isolates a lot of people who, like the PDGA, seek to enjoy disc golf, promote disc golf, and grow the sport of disc golf.

If you have any questions regarding the implementation of such changes, email me.

Oh, and we should switch to UBB Threads to UBB Classic. It's much better at dealing with pages than this setup is.

Even having nonmember posting on a single thread would be trouble. John Duesler will be seeking large corporate sponsors to partner with the pro tour, an activity which our members constantly request as a priority. Pete May and others are seeking deep pocket donors for the new NDGC endowment fund. I would be and have been embarrassed to send any one of those potential donors/sponsors to our current website, knowing what lurks on the Discussion pages. And I've heard this from several major tournament directors reluctant to let sponsors visit our site.

The possible loss of potential sponsors who can move our sport forward more than offsets the threats of players not renewing due to 'member only' posting. And, it's not just the funding these potential sponsors bring but their respect and support for our efforts and the sport itself.




Unforunately, the PDGA doesn't have the resources to police this Board and clean it up, especially when it's possible to almost reduce the site "vandalism" in the first place by limiting to nonmembers.



Eliminating nonmembers posts will reduce the offensive and hostile postings that come from anonymous posters who only make those comments because they can't be held accountable.

There will surely be disagreements and just as many offensive and hostile postings between PDGA members - we're a big family, and as everyone knows, family members don't always agree. I predict the overall reduction in offensive and hostile postings on this board will not be that significant.

We will still be embarrassed to send any one of those potential donors/sponsors to our current website, knowing what lurks on the Discussion pages.

If the PDGA truly cared about the content of the Discussion page, all they need is someone to police it. What happened to Terry the Pirate Calhoun? Conrad Damon? Steve Ganz?

Why does the "Notify Moderator" button do nothing? Nearly every day I report offensive and hostile postings with that button and nothing ever gets moderated.

If the PDGA lacks the resources to police the board, they should seek volunteers to perform this work!

I and other PDGA leaders already put up with regular abuse behind the scenes via phone and email.



Chuck -- I am truly sorry to hear that. But I think the point that I and others are making is that while there is nothing we as a community can really do about the phone and e-mail abuse (except provide the BoD support in terms of volunteering and promoting the organization) there *is* something that can be done about abuse on the msg. board that is way short of the new policy. Again, I think we should be focused on the overwhelming majority of the users of this board who are here to listen, learn and contribute when they can, not the 10-15 who constantly post abuse. We may not like it, but right now joining the PDGA is one of the last things players do on the continuum of "disc golf seriousness" (after buying a few discs, joining the local club if there is one, getting involved in leagues, etc.). As someone who spends *alot* of time trying to get new members interested in the sport I am always trying to evaluate what we do as a community from the perspective of what will get newbies involved and this new policy pretty much fails that test. Anyways, I'm hoping the PDGA will reconsider this.

Ross

I think I understand why the PDGA decided to clamp down on who gets to post what, but it seems a hollow reason to me if Nick's abuses are still allowed to continue.

If his words are permitted on this board, and no effort is made by the PDGA to discipline or restrain him, then I don't see why any action was taken against anyone else.



I really have to agree with this!!! Not that I disagree with Nick all of the time, but really, he has said some stuff that I have found somewhat offensive(although I am not looking for a fight with Nick, nor can I think of a specific post that he made that offended me, so Nick or anyone please dont ask for I am not going to go back and forth about it). I think some things he has posted may be viewed as negative for our "future sponsors who we are trying to impress".

About the whole idea of not allowing nonmembers to post, I am really on the fence. I am not sure where I stand. I agree with much from both sides. However, I think I lean towards keeping nonmembers, at the very least, some access to post on this forum. Maybe in a small thread titled "interested in the PDGA" or something like that. A place where nonmembers can go and interact with members and see why all of us keep renewing our membership every year.

Just because this discussion board has 10-20 people posting things that may be inappropriate, I dont think we should ban nonmembers from posting. I am sure all discussion boards have at least one person nobody likes.

Then the Volunteers moderators can take action they way they see fit. You can even go one step further and have a few elected people who are in charge of all the Volunteer moderators for situations that they dont know how to handle or have a thread for all the moderators only to discuss problem posts/posters.

I also think we should try and appear professional if we want to be taken seriously. However, I dont think this is the best action to take to get this done. Part of what draws me to DG is that its not like every other sport. All walks of life play, young, old, male and female from all different back rounds, hippies, business men/women, fast food workers, CEOs, students, doctors, lawyers...I could go on and on. My point is that I have always loved discgolf due to the looseness of the sport and the different outlook our great sport offers!!! We are different from other sports, why conform to others sports standards when we have so many volunteers that are willing to offer a hand in controlling whatever areas that need to be controlled in order to appear professional to the rest of the world.

I am not certain, but I am not sure this is a step in the right direction. Most of the arguments from the "happy about the new rule" seem to lack enough weight for me currently. They seem to me, to not be enough justification for not allowing nonmembers to post IMO, at least that is how I feel right now.

My 2 cents:

I'm glad the PDGA has taken this step.

As Chuck and several others have pointed out, anyone can read all the information here. There are even links provided to contact the correct people to answer any questions they might have. I've looked at other message boards, even ones that have been started because this one doesn't allow them to flame on other participants, what they want to call their RIGHT to express themselves freely. They don't let nonmembers post anywhere they want to, do they? It seems like a lot of the past participants of this service provided by our PDGA want to post trask talk and other nonsense that, while it's surely funny, has very little to add to Disc Golf in general, and doesn't do much to further the purpose of the PDGA. Some are saying that the board should be open for everyone to post, just moderate it a little more strictly. :confused: Doesn't anyone remember the problems caused when moderators did put the hammer down? Sure, a lot of people acted like they really hate Nick, and what he has done on this forum. But what about Terry? He put in a lot of effort and took time out of his schedule to try to clean up this place. And to what end? Just continual BULLSH*T from the irresponsible nonmembers that just wanted trouble.

I am glad for the change. Put up the entry fee if you want to get in the ring and make a difference.

Part of what draws me to DG is that its not like every other sport.

and here i thought twas simply cuz you could not dye rawhide and/or pigskin

Chuck, no offense, but the BOD's role should not be patrolling the messageboards. We, the card carrying members can actively take part in the messageboard and act in an empowered role to counteract spammers, nasty posts, uncouthe behavior et al. Each forum section can get a lead administrator, who can, in tern, designate other admins. It happens on a lot of other sites, and it works well. Sometimes one person can't do it all, they can choose to share the task with another member.

By hording all of the messageboard administrative duties, you are simply overloading a small group of people, and possibly turning them into "the bad guy". By distributing the task of messageboard admin across a wider base, you are minimizing the demand for each admin, empowering people who step up to the task, possibly nurturing a future leader in our sport, and maybe, just maybe, making the average board poster feel a little less "watched" when a message is deleted or moved.

Also, Other boards have created a "pit of doom" or "Asbestos Lined Room", basically, a place where all those nasty conversations that get out of hand end up. Maybe this becomes a members only room, maybe it's admin only, but either way, these posts have their place, even if they burn people's britches. We learn from them, quite often, rebukes to unadulterated attacks are constructive, not just defensive.

As far as the future of the board goes...

I think we should possibly add to the "terms of use" for the messageboard. Add in policies against spamming, multiple accounts tied to certain IP addresses, anonymous posting of unacceptable content can result in member removal of NON PDGA MEMBERS. Etc etc. Just because we are the ONLY (which I doubt) organization that has a free for all messageboard doesn't mean we should sway with the wind and create a member exclusive board, it isolates a lot of people who, like the PDGA, seek to enjoy disc golf, promote disc golf, and grow the sport of disc golf.

If you have any questions regarding the implementation of such changes, email me.

Oh, and we should switch to UBB Threads to UBB Classic. It's much better at dealing with pages than this setup is.



Good idea Matt. Instead of criticizing the changes you are suggesting an alternate solution. What an idea.

I like this idea. It is done on a lot of other message boards, where they ask the regular posters to step up and act as moderators. I think with the right people this could be a very effective tool on this board.

Terry, Steve, Chuck, and Nick should not have to spend hours patroling the message board. If some regulars stepped up and volunteered to act as moderators for each section, it would free up time for these volunteers. It is our message board as members, and it should be our job to moderate it.

Isn't this how Nick ended up as a moderator? Because he was on here all the time anyways?

What is up with the alias' though. What is so strange with using your real name?



In my experience with message boards, it is more strange to post using your real name.

I like many of the unusual and interesting user names I have seen on this board over the years.



I've had my share of fun with it too Suzette, just seems like it would be cool to see Stan McDaniel or Suzette Simons when you read one of your posts. I have no objections to alias' per se.

In fact now that we are all accountable, how about losing the c-e-n-s-o-r-s-h-i-p altogether?



There has never been a single act of censorship on the PDGA Message Board. When "free speech" is NOT GUARANTEED censorship is not possible. If we claimed to provide a venue for free speech and then deleted or changed users posts THAT WOULD BE CENSORSHIP.

Besides, free speech, and institution I support, is not what this is about. It is about the abuse of a resource created by and for PDGA Members by non-PDGA members.

Again, my proposal is to have a 3 level message board

Members Only - Read and Write.
Members Only - Read and Write / non-members can read
Single Open Thread - Anyone can read or write. Monitor this heavily.

I'm not sure free speech should be guaranteed in any of these either though.

We don't even have enough volunteers who can be effectively coordinated now and you're talking about a program using valuable member resources to provide a free benefit to nonmembers. We already do enough of that now. You can't just turn people loose as topic administrators without supervisory oversight and coordination. It's not that the topic admins wouldn't be smart enough, but there still would be a need for consistency. It becomes another marshal program for online activities.

If we have the volunteer time available for web related activities, there are other places it could be better used. For example, how many of you have helped get Course Evaluations completed to help your State Coordinators? Improving courses can go farther toward improving participation than nonmember posting.

Unfortunately, our qualified leadership really doesn't have enough time to manage the few people who have volunteered for web projects as it is. As an outside insider, I'm concerned that some of our leaders are near burnout but continue to volunteer because no one is stepping up to run for office. There's been lots of unproductive time spent dealing with malcontented nonmembers for little benefit for our members and the sport in general. It drains resources and motivation. It's just not worth it for their limited time available. Look at the time I've spent dealing with this when I had nothing to do with this policy change or implementation. If you've got time to volunteer, do it where it's productive whether PDGA related or just for the good of the sport at your local level.

In fact now that we are all accountable, how about losing the c-e-n-s-o-r-s-h-i-p altogether?



There has never been a single act of censorship on the PDGA Message Board. When "free speech" is NOT GUARANTEED censorship is not possible. .



censoring - To examine and expurgate.
expurgate - To remove erroneous, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise objectionable material before publication.

Must of pushed some sensitive Nick-at-Kight buttons to get such an ill-considered response.

Must of pushed some sensitive Nick-at-Kight buttons to get such an ill-considered response.

no, not really. those responses are pretty much standard, button-pushing or not :)

Perhaps someday we will meet Danny, until then please consider us strangers.

I do not wish to slight you, yet I have to comment that basing your commitment to the PDGA 100% on this message board being open to posts by non-members seems extremely weak. We each need to decide whether the PDGA is for us or not. I am comfortable with your decision.

Paul,

Are you still ticked at me because of the 2 meter rule? Amazing! Pat is too! C'mon dude, lighten up a little.

You assume I have power that I simply do not have. Why does disagreement mean we have to be in different camps? I know from face to faces at PDGA tournaments that there are folks that disagree with things I say here or postions I have and it all seems totally trivial when put in relation to love of the sport. Why is that so different here?

I have to seriously worry about the folks like Jeff LaGrassa that carry grudges from the message board out to the course. Don't do that, life is way too short...

Regards,
Nick

(Hope you can read that considering you have me on ignore. Hey Administrator Pat, why do you have it set so that I can't unignore you? C'mon, play nice.)

Isn't this how Nick ended up as a moderator? Because he was on here all the time anyways?



You know that I no longer moderate here, right?

Rather than any elaborate moderation scheme, I'd prefer the DISCussion Board simply be removed. As Chuck correctly points out there are far far far more important tasks available for volunteers to help out with. I don't want this board to be removed, but if folks can't behave themselves then that has got to become a very real option.

Hey Verne,

Am I mistaken that censorship, particularly in the context discussed here, is the one that relates to the suppression of free speech? So again, how can it be considered censorship, in the traditional/historical, sense when free speech is explicitly not provided in the PDGA DISCussion Board? At any rate, I get what the original poster meant: Stop editing and deleting our posts! Right?

Hopefully, that will be a thing of the past. What I'd like to see more of is self-policing, meaning that if someone clearly steps out of line a rainstorm of PMs comes down on them telling them precisely where and why they messed up.

Regards,
Nick

4 Kight posts in a row. The thread should die relatively soon now...

Paul,

Are you still ticked at me because of the 2 meter rule? Amazing! Pat is too! C'mon dude, lighten up a little.



Nick, at the risk of implying you are quite powerful, i am getting a little ticked at you because your behavior here makes people inclined to disagree with your stance on the 2 meter rule (which i think makes sense). Do you think you could start arguing for the 2 meter penalty? -- that way, i think Pat and many others who currently want to retain the force-feeding of this rule might switch over and take the more sensible side /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Paul,

Are you still ticked at me because of the 2 meter rule? Amazing! Pat is too! C'mon dude, lighten up a little.



Nick, at the risk of implying you are quite powerful, i am getting a little ticked at you because your behavior here makes people inclined to disagree with your stance on the 2 meter rule (which i think makes sense). Do you think you could start arguing for the 2 meter penalty? -- that way, i think Pat and many others who currently want to retain the force-feeding of this rule might switch over and take the more sensible side /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Gladly Rob! :D

4 Kight posts in a row. The thread should die relatively soon now...

it was dead (or at least worthless) after his first post :cool:

btw, i am not ticked at you for your opinion. i am ticked at you for trying to ram it down everyone elses throats, and your abusive belittlement of opposing opinions.

happy thanksgiving!

I just want to point out that Nick Kight, in my opinion, has only helped the PDGA with his countless volunteer hours (while I don't think his program is necesarry, I do appreciate anyone who steps up to help the game).

I also have never read a post that I thought Nick was an [I'm a potty-mouth!] afterwards. While some, if not most, of his posts I disagree with - he backs everything up and rarely attacks people.

For like a year, I've read nothing but Nick bashing and I've never said a word - until now.

Please get off the man's back and appreciate what he does. Instead of whining about this or that, get off your [I'm a potty-mouth!] and do something significant for the game.

he backs everything up and rarely attacks people.



thats gotta be a troll for evidence, which is in vast supply.

For like a year, I've read nothing but Nick bashing and I've never said a word - until now.

Please get off the man's back and appreciate what he does. Instead of whining about this or that, get off your [I'm a potty-mouth!] and do something significant for the game.


Right on...and if y'all DON'T behave, I'm going to flood this thread with some of my slammin' DG Beat Prose....who's up for that? :)

Hey Nick,

For about a month after I first frequented the msg brd I thought your name was Nick Knight, when I finally noticed there was no 'N' in Kight, it was too late - I had you associated with Nick-at-Night. So nothing personal: it's all in my head.

I wouldn't say I'm interested in the constitutional version of freedom of speech for the msg brd, I'm more interested in the freedom of discussion. I like to see controversial ideas tossed out and discussed because often it's a point of view I havn't considered and therefore I learn.

For example: the 2 meter rule. I had never heard anyone out here in the west rail against it, so it was a surprise to hear there were people so opposed to it. Just one example.

The [I'm a potty mouth] is just plain insulting. I would think that it would be just as embarassing to the PDGA to have potential sponsors see that we treat our members like 6 year olds as to have them see crude remarks by small minds.

I too would like to see the msg board self regulating. Assuming (danger danger Will Robinson) we have a private club of intelligent members known as the PDGA, optimistically thinking, we would self regulate. Now that we've closed the doors on non-member anonymous trolling posters we have a chance to prove that we are a mature, serious (about disc golf) group.

Verne

Even having nonmember posting on a single thread would be trouble. John Duesler will be seeking large corporate sponsors to partner with the pro tour, an activity which our members constantly request as a priority. Pete May and others are seeking deep pocket donors for the new NDGC endowment fund. I would be and have been embarrassed to send any one of those potential donors/sponsors to our current website, knowing what lurks on the Discussion pages. And I've heard this from several major tournament directors reluctant to let sponsors visit our site.

The possible loss of potential sponsors who can move our sport forward more than offsets the threats of players not renewing due to 'member only' posting. And, it's not just the funding these potential sponsors bring but their respect and support for our efforts and the sport itself.




Unforunately, the PDGA doesn't have the resources to police this Board and clean it up, especially when it's possible to almost reduce the site "vandalism" in the first place by limiting to nonmembers.



Eliminating nonmembers posts will reduce the offensive and hostile postings that come from anonymous posters who only make those comments because they can't be held accountable.
<font color="brown"> Will reduce, but unfortunately not eliminate. </font>

There will surely be disagreements and just as many offensive and hostile postings between PDGA members - we're a big family, and as everyone knows, family members don't always agree. I predict the overall reduction in offensive and hostile postings on this board will not be that significant.
<font color="brown"> I disagree. We'll see. </font>
We will still be embarrassed to send any one of those potential donors/sponsors to our current website, knowing what lurks on the Discussion pages.
<font color="brown"> The other option supported by the board was to just shut down the message board altogether. Would that be a better solution, with regards to reducing the risk with potential sponsors? </font>
If the PDGA truly cared about the content of the Discussion page, all they need is someone to police it. What happened to Terry the Pirate Calhoun? Conrad Damon? Steve Ganz?
<font color="brown"> They all got burned out or ran out of time to volunteer to the effort. Which leads back to volunteer management. Who's supposed to take responsibility for recruiting and managing volunteers? And should the message board be a higher priority than other things like the overall website, tournaments, the new National Disc Golf Center, etc.? </font>
Why does the "Notify Moderator" button do nothing? Nearly every day I report offensive and hostile postings with that button and nothing ever gets moderated.
<font color="brown"> Because the web server has been unable to send out email messages for over a month (since the big server crash in October). That problem has only recently (yesterday) been fixed.</font>

If the PDGA lacks the resources to police the board, they should seek volunteers to perform this work!


<font color="brown"> Management of volunteers takes time. I've been doing it for more than three years. We don't have anyone stepping up to do it. </font>

Theo, et al,

I'll volunteer to take a segment (a single thread category) and police it, but trying to tackle the sheer volume of posts on this board is too large of a task for me to volunteer for...

I've always been and will continue to be a big supporter of the PDGA and it's efforts to grow and develop the sport. It deserves a large volunteer effort on the part of its membership to continue to see it grow. Every step I've seen it take since joining, has been in a direction that was aimed at growing the sport. While there a folks that might disagree with any particular action the board takes, including this one, the intent is for the betterment of the sport and our marketability to potential sponsors. All of which are highly desirable.

Criticism is almost worthless without the critics being willing to step up to the plate with a better solution and some action. It is my opinion that the BOD gets "slammed" way too often over minor decisions when their intent is the same intent that we all have...to grow the sport.

If someone wants to be able to post on the PDGA supplied message board, then pay for the privilige with your membership...if you want to see head in a particular direction toward growing the sport, then give us the privilige of your participation and leadership in that effort.

I'd have to say that based on membership levels and PDGA sanctioned events, the PDGA is doing a pretty good job. :D

i really dont believe that there are gonna be many over-the-top posts anymore. especially ofte type we had been seeing.

which kinda proves the case for this members only decision in the first place!

ifthat is true, then the worst part of admining the board is dealing with lost passwords, and ADMIN stuff like that - not playing momma

4 Kight posts in a row. The thread should die relatively soon now...

it was dead (or at least worthless) after his first post :cool:

btw, i am not ticked at you for your opinion. i am ticked at you for trying to ram it down everyone elses throats, and your abusive belittlement of opposing opinions.

happy thanksgiving!



Pat, you need to let it go already bro...

I invite you to PM me the next time you think I've posted something hostile or abusive? With infinite evidence you say is coming out of me it shouldn't be tough to find the next infraction, right?

I can't help you with my persistance issue. When I believe in something I will defend it vigorously until a convincing argument to the contrary is made.

does that invite for a PM mean you have taken me off of ignore?

Eliminating nonmembers posts will reduce the offensive and hostile postings that come from anonymous posters who only make those comments because they can't be held accountable.
<font color="brown"> Will reduce, but unfortunately not eliminate. </font>

There will surely be disagreements and just as many offensive and hostile postings between PDGA members - we're a big family, and as everyone knows, family members don't always agree. I predict the overall reduction in offensive and hostile postings on this board will not be that significant.
<font color="brown"> I disagree. We'll see. </font>
We will still be embarrassed to send any one of those potential donors/sponsors to our current website, knowing what lurks on the Discussion pages.
<font color="brown"> The other option supported by the board was to just shut down the message board altogether. Would that be a better solution, with regards to reducing the risk with potential sponsors? </font>
If the PDGA truly cared about the content of the Discussion page, all they need is someone to police it. What happened to Terry the Pirate Calhoun? Conrad Damon? Steve Ganz?
<font color="brown"> They all got burned out or ran out of time to volunteer to the effort. Which leads back to volunteer management. Who's supposed to take responsibility for recruiting and managing volunteers? And should the message board be a higher priority than other things like the overall website, tournaments, the new National Disc Golf Center, etc.? </font>
Why does the "Notify Moderator" button do nothing? Nearly every day I report offensive and hostile postings with that button and nothing ever gets moderated.
<font color="brown"> Because the web server has been unable to send out email messages for over a month (since the big server crash in October). That problem has only recently (yesterday) been fixed.</font>

If the PDGA lacks the resources to police the board, they should seek volunteers to perform this work!
<font color="brown"> Management of volunteers takes time. I've been doing it for more than three years. We don't have anyone stepping up to do it. </font>



Theo,

Thanks for addressing my points. I agree with you on all yours, especially that other things like the overall website, tournaments, the new National Disc Golf Center, etc. should take priority over the message board.

But I also contend that it wouldn't take much to organize a small group of volunteers to manage the board. Other than the initial call for help, the 'managment of volunteers' should not take time or resources. Larry Kruse has already volunteered to take over a section, and I will volunteer as well.

Eliminating nonmembers posts will reduce the offensive and hostile postings that come from anonymous posters who only make those comments because they can't be held accountable.
<font color="brown"> Will reduce, but unfortunately not eliminate. </font>

There will surely be disagreements and just as many offensive and hostile postings between PDGA members - we're a big family, and as everyone knows, family members don't always agree. I predict the overall reduction in offensive and hostile postings on this board will not be that significant.
<font color="brown"> I disagree. We'll see. </font>
We will still be embarrassed to send any one of those potential donors/sponsors to our current website, knowing what lurks on the Discussion pages.
<font color="brown"> The other option supported by the board was to just shut down the message board altogether. Would that be a better solution, with regards to reducing the risk with potential sponsors? </font>
If the PDGA truly cared about the content of the Discussion page, all they need is someone to police it. What happened to Terry the Pirate Calhoun? Conrad Damon? Steve Ganz?
<font color="brown"> They all got burned out or ran out of time to volunteer to the effort. Which leads back to volunteer management. Who's supposed to take responsibility for recruiting and managing volunteers? And should the message board be a higher priority than other things like the overall website, tournaments, the new National Disc Golf Center, etc.? </font>
Why does the "Notify Moderator" button do nothing? Nearly every day I report offensive and hostile postings with that button and nothing ever gets moderated.
<font color="brown"> Because the web server has been unable to send out email messages for over a month (since the big server crash in October). That problem has only recently (yesterday) been fixed.</font>

If the PDGA lacks the resources to police the board, they should seek volunteers to perform this work!
<font color="brown"> Management of volunteers takes time. I've been doing it for more than three years. We don't have anyone stepping up to do it. </font>



Theo,

Thanks for addressing my points. I agree with you on all yours, especially that other things like the overall website, tournaments, the new National Disc Golf Center, etc. should take priority over the message board.

But I also contend that it wouldn't take much to organize a small group of volunteers to manage the board. Other than the initial call for help, the 'managment of volunteers' should not take time or resources. Larry Kruse has already volunteered to take over a section, and I will volunteer as well.



I'm working with Jon Lyksett to get someone to take overall responsibility for the message board, and that person could manage a group of moderators to help out. Then we can reevaluate the options for opening up the Affiliate Clubs sections, a PDGA Q &amp; A section, and possibly a couple more non-member areas. Thanks for volunteering!

-Theo

If you ever get in a situation with moderators or something like that, I would love to do it. I'm on here enough, might as well help - lol

I would also like to volunteer. I am constantly reading this board, and would like to contribute to its improvement.

you'd prolly have to change your avatar :D

He is just showing off his ring! :D

Paul,

Are you still ticked at me because of the 2 meter rule? Amazing! Pat is too! C'mon dude, lighten up a little.



Nick, at the risk of implying you are quite powerful, i am getting a little ticked at you because your behavior here makes people inclined to disagree with your stance on the 2 meter rule (which i think makes sense). Do you think you could start arguing for the 2 meter penalty? -- that way, i think Pat and many others who currently want to retain the force-feeding of this rule might switch over and take the more sensible side /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


That's funny. I actually suggested once a while back something similar...

But Nick's point is actually a tangent. (Oh no, more impossible geometry...) Almost every single thread I've read on this board has had Nick's two cents posted (usually over and over again) and in many of those posts, he seems to fling the pennies right in our eyes just for the fun of it. I guess I don't understand that behavior, especially in someone who is supposed to be a leader in this sport, and I don't understand why the PDGA condones it.

And it must condone that behavior, because it continues even in this thread.

So the PDGA's blindness to Nick's posts, of which many are against us, and the PDGA's oversensitivity to anon posts, of which many are apparently against them, makes me sort of distrust our current PDGA board. They seem to be reacting to the wrong thing and behaving in a very un-leader-like way. A leader should protect others on this board before they protect themselves.

It's a shame I feel this way about the PDGA leadership right now, especially given all the good they've done for our sport. But good communication is one of the key aspects of a leader's job, and even if leaders are doing other things well, poorly communicating with your membership like this can set it all back.

It wasn't too long ago, I guess, that I was a non-member. And maybe it won't be too long again when I will return to that status. Maybe that colors my POV.

I just want to point out that Nick Kight, in my opinion, has only helped the PDGA with his countless volunteer hours (while I don't think his program is necesarry, I do appreciate anyone who steps up to help the game).

I also have never read a post that I thought Nick was an [I'm a potty-mouth!] afterwards. While some, if not most, of his posts I disagree with - he backs everything up and rarely attacks people.

For like a year, I've read nothing but Nick bashing and I've never said a word - until now.

Please get off the man's back and appreciate what he does. Instead of whining about this or that, get off your [I'm a potty-mouth!] and do something significant for the game.


And are you also coming out in defense of the anon's who are posting their abuses? Or have they done nothing for the sport except play it?

Seriously, Nick himself admits to a rough-and-tumble style in his posting. Bruises are par for the course when discussing a topic with him. I'm saying that's unwarranted behavior and certainly surprising coming from a PDGA leader.

I won't disagree with your comment that Nick has contributed to the sport. But realize, all most of us see of Nick is right here on the message board.

But when it comes down to it, I tend to think just playing the sport is contribution enough to have a voice. Because if we didn't have any players, we wouldn't even be here, right?

I can volunteer too, obviously I have a lot of ideas, I've moderated on several other boards/lists. I don't mind being an over-moderator also. I spend my nights online looking for something to do... maybe this will channel that time.

I'm working with Jon Lyksett to get someone to take overall responsibility for the message board, and that person could manage a group of moderators to help out. Then we can reevaluate the options for opening up the Affiliate Clubs sections, a PDGA Q & A section, and possibly a couple more non-member areas. Thanks for volunteering!

-Theo



Theo, thank you for being open to a more inclusive option even though it is potentially more of a headache to control.
There are a lot of people out there who for one reason or another are not members but who contribute to our sport and serve to promote the PDGA membership and goals in one way or another.

Okay,

This decission has been in the making for about a year now. We discussed this when several non-members started to abuse members and this board. People were asked to register and not post anonymously anymore, but they continued to do so. Some were banned from the board or put on restrictions and then later were allowed to return only to continue their assult on the PDGA and on the members. One even went as far as starting his own crybaby board to bash the PDGA. It is because of people like this that a decision was made to make it a members only DISCussion.

People, you were given the chance to police the board as members, but we didn't and now you have to live with the outcome. Does this effect the good people that posted beneficial conversations and topics, yes. It is sad that a few bad apples will ruin the whole barrel, but some things are what they are.

This B*S* has gone on long enough. Accept it or join, there is no other discussion. These are the rules and they should be followed and not cried about. I have never heard so much whinning from a group of grown men.

Okay,

This decission has been in the making for about a year now. We discussed this when several non-members started to abuse members and this board. People were asked to register and not post anonymously anymore, but they continued to do so.


Isn't there a difference between disallowing anonymous posts and forcing people to become PDGA members to post?

Some were banned from the board or put on restrictions and then later were allowed to return only to continue their assult on the PDGA and on the members.


Okay, this example doesn't sound like we didn't know who was posting, that they were truly anonymous. They sound like we do know who was posting, but we didn't like what they posted.

One even went as far as starting his own crybaby board to bash the PDGA.


By itself, this doesn't sound terrible, but it's cited here almost as the worst example. This apparently non-anonymous person (non-anonymous because we know who he was) used another forum to bash the PDGA? Isn't that what this move to eliminate non-members from posting on this forum actually promotes?

It is because of people like this that a decision was made to make it a members only DISCussion.


But we're okay with strong criticism as long as it comes from members, right? Because I was reading earlier in this thread that the anonymity is what rankled, but apparently the worst offenders were well known. So I'm wondering if the criticism was the real problem, not their anonymity.

If we continue to get strong criticism from actual members, then what?

People, you were given the chance to police the board as members, but we didn't and now you have to live with the outcome.


But I policed them fine. I just put the "ignore" feature to good use. Please don't chastise me for not doing my part -- I used the tools of the forum as they were designed to silence trolls. (That's what people do in actual newsgroups, too.)

Does this effect the good people that posted beneficial conversations and topics, yes. It is sad that a few bad apples will ruin the whole barrel, but some things are what they are.


My chief problem is cited above. We've penalized people who didn't abuse the board, and yet there are actual members who are still abusing their posting privileges, in my opinion, and they're not being disciplined at all. People who cry foul about unfairness in disc golf rules should be screaming to high heaven here.

This B*S* has gone on long enough. Accept it or join, there is no other discussion. These are the rules and they should be followed and not cried about. I have never heard so much whinning from a group of grown men.


It's called America. As I understand it, we were founded by whiners. Or at least, the Brits called them that.

WOW...you have to much time on your hands.

WOW...you have to much time on your hands.


Just today, apparently. I've only made 7 posts in the past month -- but 4 of those were made today (including this one)!

I noticed you've made 3 posts today, disc coach, and 10 for the month. I guess neither one of us post that often, and today is an off day for us.

You should look at other post counts: MTL has 147 posts this past month, Chuck has 129, Nick has 145, slo has 144, Kid_Roc has 177... You want to criticize them for having too much time on their hands, too?

I think all of us are choosing to spend the time on this board just the way we want.

WOW...you have to much time on your hands.



That's like the pot calling the kettle black.

great post. thank you.

i think disc coach criticized you because you dared constructively criticize the PDGA. fortunately, i don't think he represents any kind of majority...

I won't disagree with your comment that Nick has contributed to the sport. But realize, all most of us see of Nick is right here on the message board.



Then if this is important to you Paul, you might consider attempting to know a little more than just this message board. Seriously, shoot me a PM, an email, give me a call or talk to someone who has met me. Anyone who has done this with me will tell you that I am not some spiteful, grudge holding, *******. To protect their status as a Kight-hater in good standing I won't disclose the names of all who have done this.

I remember us disagreeing on some rule or another on the message board paul. I assure you that any verbal sparing was in jest. Have I since or recently been rough and tumble with you?

Are you sure that it is simply not a matter of you not like to be disagreed with?

I'm not sure but I thought that you were defending ones right to post as little or as much as they like just a couple posts ago. Seems like you are asking that folks that do lots of stuff for the PDGA or disc golf in general not post freely or openly (a form of censorship, no?).

I do apologize if what I write upsets you, I do not intend that, but sometimes there simply is no avoiding it when people disagree on something.

At any rate, I'm not going to slow down my work for the PDGA nor my enjoyment of this message board. I'm pretty sure my membership fee was the same as yours and though I really do welcome your criticism of the PDGA, just don't cry foul when I disagree with you from time to time on certain things, ok?

...sometimes there simply is no avoiding it when people disagree on something...

actually, there is a way to avoid it.

its called diplomacy.

you're not too old to leran it!

...sometimes there simply is no avoiding it when people disagree on something...

actually, there is a way to avoid it.

its called diplomacy.

you're not too old to leran it!



Pat, i remember when you got on the diplomacy train and suggested the compromise of no 2 meter rule outside of 10 meters from the pin -- but then you relapsed and implied the Rules Committee are incompetent, drugged, or both :eek:

that said :D, i think we all would do well to learn more diplomacy -- especially on an internet message board where it is easier to be inconsiderate than in person. you seemed quite experienced at rough and tumble discourse when we first engaged in 2 meter rule talk. i did appreciate though your humor and ability to acknowledge we were just arguing opposing opinions as two disc golf loving human beings

i'm pretty sure i never said anyone was on drugs. thats a rather slanderous statement to make about me. an apology will be accepted.

i returned to my full 2MR position because while i offered what was a reasonable compromise, it was belittled and attacked by nick and his minion. therefore, the only sensible negotiatiing position was one at a more completely oppposite point form nick's (and his minion).

you are on crack.



I think that was you that said this earlier this year. :o:D

to whom?

Me.

Me.

It is slander only if it was not true.

but then you relapsed and implied the Rules Committee are incompetent, drugged, or both




me




that was you. i didnt realize you were on the Rules Committee. if you were/are, then i take it back :cool:

i'm pretty sure i never said anyone was on drugs. thats a rather slanderous statement to make about me. an apology will be accepted.



the thread in question happens to have been lost in the crash. unless i'm mistaken, you implied the RC members must have been smoking something pretty strong when they recommended the 2 meter rule should not be force fed as a default scenario on all holes and at all courses.


i returned to my full 2MR position because while i offered what was a reasonable compromise, it was belittled and attacked by nick and his minion. therefore, the only sensible negotiatiing position was one at a more completely oppposite point form nick's (and his minion).



if you are suggesting i am Nick's minion -- not only is that absurd, it is easily as bad as Nick at his worst. Plus, you are suggesting you were attacked when i am pretty sure it was only your suggestion that was critiqued. it was i who started the "2m rule question" thread, and i established my position against the 2m rule independent of Mr. Kight. While his tone was at times potentially offensive -- it was no more so than yours sometimes got and Nick's reasoning was pretty solid. I'd say the power of the "A" has corrupted you, but i'm pretty sure you've been a fan of malicious-toned hyperbole before you achieved Admin. status. perhaps it is just you like to argue and you're so convinced your way is *the* way that condescension starts to creep in... you may be a lot more like Nick than you would prefer to entertain. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It's not true. I was responding to the part where Pat said, "i'm pretty sure i never said anyone was on drugs."

first let me state for the record that i was given A status simply because i was rather deeply involved in the rollout of the members only code and i needed it to assist some members regain access.

next, i can assure you that i will not be doing any admin'ing other than helping people remember their usernames and dealing with the members only conversion. ie i wont be editing, deleting, etc.

further, even though the admin status is not something to which i was aspiring (and therefore did not "achieve"), i have in fact refrained from posting a few things already that i would have previously posted, simply as to not blemish the image of the A.

continuing, yes i am a fan of message board hyperbole, although i rarely slip into "malicious-toned" without being similarly provoked. (some threads, such as the OMB/YGB thread are all about "malicious-toned " so they dont really count. :D

for your consideration, there are similarities between nick and me. but the similarities end when compromise is involved. as i stated before, i reverted when a compromise tthat i suppported was dismissed out of hand in favor of the all-or-nothing approach of nick (and his minion :cool:)

finally:

"it was i who started THE "2m rule question" thread"? (emphasis added)

THE ?????????????????????????? :D

first let me state for the record that i was given A status simply because i was rather deeply involved in the rollout of the members only code and i needed it to assist some members regain access.

next, i can assure you that i will not be doing any admin'ing other than helping people remember their usernames and dealing with the members only conversion. ie i wont be editing, deleting, etc.

further, even though the admin status is not something to which i was aspiring (and therefore did not "achieve"), i have in fact refrained from posting a few things already that i would have previously posted, simply as to not blemish the image of the A.

continuing, yes i am a fan of message board hyperbole, although i rarely slip into "malicious-toned" without being similarly provoked. (some threads, such as the OMB/YGB thread are all about "malicious-toned " so they dont really count. :D

for your consideration, there are similarities between nick and me. but the similarities end when compromise is involved. as i stated before, i reverted when a compromise tthat i suppported was dismissed out of hand in favor of the all-or-nothing approach of nick (and his minion :cool:)

finally:

"it was i who started THE "2m rule question" thread"? (emphasis added)

THE ?????????????????????????? :D



Without going into the entire 2 meter thread thing again. To say you were ready to compromise is a stretch at best. As your actions clearly indicate, you were going to have it your way or take an unreasonable (even against your own reasoning) position PRECISELY because you are so unyeilding Pat.

The discussion of your all or nothing compromise was just that, a discussion. You are the one that made it an all or nothing deal, Rob and I were more than willing to discuss it's pluses and flaws without comment as to your intellegence or logic.

You say that you were provoked, that is not how I remember it, however it is of little consequence for mature men like us to let bygones be bygones and move on, right?

The 2MR has been resolved, and though neither of us is entirely satisfied, the result is not a brick wall all or nothing deal. Each side will be allowed to, finally, design their course the way they want to.