The part I don't understand is why she didn't just play FPO if she wanted to be on that card. There were only three pro women there, for gosh sakes. Should they really be splitting up into 2 different divisions??? :confused:

I dont think it was about playing with the women, it was about playing with other pros and being able to play the same courses at the same time so she would know how her play stacked up against all of the pros, not only women. Pros should play with pros, how would you feel if you were a pro and were the only pro stuck on an intermediate card in an am pool? I would feel singled out and I would be confused on why it happened.

It is very likely that we will always field a FPO division if someone shows up for it...even if only 1 player. But when a player refuses to step up to a division based on not being at the same skill level to compete, then it should be assumed that competition is what this player seeks which relegates the player to Intermediate division if that is what she sought.

But apparently, it sometimes it is a financial decision and sometimes a competitive one. So which one was it in this case? As was stated previously Danielle, we offered a 1 person division most generously. But expectations were that she somehow earned the right to get to play with Des and Courtney without paying the price? She just didn't like who she was getting grouped with...well, too bad. As it turns out, that was done according to her expressed desire to play where she was competitive. So why do you keep taking up this issue making it sound like the TD hosed her over? If there had been 2 FPMs out there, a division would've been opened and they would've competed with the rest of the Pro fields.

The other 2 person division you mention is FPO, and in skill set most closely match the MPM division with which they played.

Thank you Chuck for providing the additional clarity to the issue that was not comprehended by some.

BTW - here is a link to the Tour "Guidelines"/Standards which Chuck mentioned up-thread. PDGA Tour Standards (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/05TourStandards.pdf)

It took a bit of poking around to find it, but it's worth a read for those interested.

Your right it wasnt comprehended by some, thats why I was asking for clarification from the TD. It is clear now. I am not saying anyone hosed anyone over, I even stated I was not trying to casue trouble. If the TD of the tournament clarified it, then I wouldnt have had to keep asking. But all the different excuses from Larry and Nez didnt match up to the actual ruling. Because Andi doesnt want to play against Des, does not mean she is no longer a pro and does not mean she should be put on an intermediate card, no matter her rating.

I am sure there are different views from all parties involved, I asked for clarification on the rules. Thanks Chuck for providing what the TD did not.

Was there room for her in the pro pool?

how would you feel if you were a pro and were the only pro stuck on an intermediate card in an am pool?




Just ask pdp- I know its happened to him!
:o :D

Funny, I am talking about the first round not where your play puts you. :D

Anyway guys, I really didnt mean to cause a fuss, I just hate to see a woman not play a tournament because of politics.

I am sure it was a wonderful tournie for most people involved.

It happened to me at Oktoberfest. The bottom 3 intermediates got put on a card with the bottom 2 open players. One was cool, one wasn't. Mr. Angry wasn't a real pleasure to have around and I wish we could've had a player like Andi instead.

It's part of tournament play and will continue to be unless TDs start capping divisions at multiples of 4 or 5.

so she did not want to play against the pros,but she wanted to play with the pros...that sounds great, can i do that next event :D...the real problem is only 2 and a half "pro" players showed up at all...why did the other pro women not show up for the State championship?

thought I would rename the title since this thread has no prospects of dying anytime soon.
:D :eek: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

fo real!! when will the details of the next one be posted? I'M IN!!!! :D

I asked a simple question and realized when no one wanted to answer, there was more to it.



No one wanted to answer it - - we talked about it all day yesterday and it was answered several times. Bottom line is we intended to NOT let divisions of less than four people play unless they were advertised as "opened divisions". The literature was not perfect and there was a mess up with titledisc so I decided to let Andi use a loop hole to play in a one person division once again.

Nelle, Larry was the TD for the past several years and Nez was the co-TD this year, I think you had qualified people answering your questions. Are you implying that I was not man enough to speak the truth? Two people directly involved in the process were already speaking the truth�

Should pro divisions have been forced to play with an 879 rated played that was running from the FPO division? No, so the on the spot decision was made to place Andi in a division where her rating would put her competitive. As we have seen now, this was not against any written rules.

The TD staff did what they thought was correct at the time and it had nothing to do with the golfer in question. I would not have placed a less skilled golfer in any division that was playing for this much added cash. Would you like to play with a low rated junior player the first round if you were playing for this much added cash Nelle?

There is no conspiracy here�

BTW Nelle, where were you?

Nice signature Gimp. :D

I am right here Gimp, right where I have been. I saw you reading the thread all day yesterday and you did not answer anything. Now that Chuck has bailed you out with a loophole in the rule you have a voice?

I asked a question and I have the right to do it. I got a clear answer from someone who wasnt even there, because the snotty answers I got from the others were only to try to make me back off.

Would I want to play with juniors? No, nor would I want to play with intermediate men when I pay a pro price.

All the sudden you are acting like you did the right thing, well I know you didnt. I know it was personal against Andi, even your own club members have told me that much.

So its the rating now that caused you to move her? She is a pro, she belongs with pros no matter what her rating or age or gender. I would think you would move Des and Courtney to the Advanced men, closer the their rating. But then again you dont have anything personal against them.

Karma is a big thing is disc golf, dont forget that. I made my peace, got my answers from Chuck and got more answers about how Lonestar Disc Golf Productions or whatever you are calling yourself these days really works.

wow! feel the luv

she belongs with pros no matter what her rating or age or gender

nonsense. if someone pays the entry fee then they can play in the division. while you are berating Gimp, who put on a flawless event, for not responding, why not gett Andi herself to get on here if she has a grievience? why cant she fight her own battles? or do you have something personal against Gimp?

geez, last year a truly superb event was trashed afterwards be a group of whiny AM2s. now this year an absolutely perfect event is being tarnished by one person complaining about something that happened to someone else! this is insane.

geez, last year a truly superb event was trashed afterwards be a group of whiny AM2s. now this year an absolutely perfect event is being tarnished by one person complaining about something that happened to someone else! this is insane.



Those were AM3's.

ok, some werent. but i know for sure some were AM2s. i know, lets dig up the thread and check! :D:D:D

I have already explained why I was ASKING about it. I am faced with a 1 person division all the time, I wanted to know the correct ruling on it. I dont have anything personal against Gimp, not one thing. Nice guy, never had an issue with him personally. I have played TX States twice and loved it both times (except for the rain :) ). I have never had an issue with ANY Houston disc golfer ever. I was asking a question that obviously hit a nerve with some people, I got my answers, more than I asked for. I am not complaining about what happened, I was asking for it to be clarified. When I got a response it still wasnt clear, then something didnt seem right because the reasons were not adding up. I hadnt even talked to Andi or anyone about it until today, so its not like I was defending her, I was asking for myself and other women disc golfers who have to face the same issue.

Like I said before over and over, I got my answers.

Roar like a dungeon dragon! :D

I am right here Gimp, right where I have been. I saw you reading the thread all day yesterday and you did not answer anything. Now that Chuck has bailed you out with a loophole in the rule you have a voice?

I asked a question and I have the right to do it. I got a clear answer from someone who wasnt even there, because the snotty answers I got from the others were only to try to make me back off.

Would I want to play with juniors? No, nor would I want to play with intermediate men when I pay a pro price.

All the sudden you are acting like you did the right thing, well I know you didnt. I know it was personal against Andi, even your own club members have told me that much.

So its the rating now that caused you to move her? She is a pro, she belongs with pros no matter what her rating or age or gender. I would think you would move Des and Courtney to the Advanced men, closer the their rating. But then again you dont have anything personal against them.

Karma is a big thing is disc golf, dont forget that. I made my peace, got my answers from Chuck and got more answers about how Lonestar Disc Golf Productions or whatever you are calling yourself these days really works.



DES cannot move down.

I refuse to flame with you Nelle. I try to wait to react because it is infuriating to me to have to talk about such a pathetically stupid issue. Why would I re-answer your obvious attack on the only thing you could find to cause trouble about?

I worked very hard (along with the other volunteers) to make this event happen when no one else would step up to TD it. Perhaps if you had come you could have tasted some of the added cash against some of the best in the world. You choose not to come, now you want to bash when it is unwarranted.

Andi can �claim� it is personal all she wants, but I assure you anyone in similar circumstances would have been treated the exact same way. We were very professional in our dealings with Andi and gave her many options.


Karma is a big thing is disc golf, don�t forget that. I made my peace, got my answers from Chuck and got more answers about how Lonestar Disc Golf Productions or whatever you are calling yourself these days really works.



WTF are you talking about? Yea, karma is going to kick me in the a**s**s for this one� I would expect the negative karma to be coming your way actually. Lets recount how terrible I was for this event - -

- I was responsible for a huge percentage of the planning and reproduction of some of the past methods used (from the wonderful volunteers of the past) for the event

- Plastic leveraged at cost to make the event better

- Zero profit for a professional TD that does not currently have a job

- Pulled off a kick A**S**S event with tons of added payout with the help of the other volunteers.

- Almost all added cash coming through my sponsorship efforts

Yes my dear, Team Disaster and Gimp are terrible. Go crawl back under your rock flamer�

A couple of notes:

For those who liked the new Wilmont, remember that Jerry Crites, with suggestions from Don W., did the redesign this year. Jerry gets a lot of local recognition but deserves all he can get. :D

As usual, the TD of this tournament is getting some spanking. Let's not forget that Gimp stepped up due to terminal burn out on Ching's part and put together a sharp tournament. This event is a good one because it's TDs, past and present, bust a hump to make it so. Thanks Larry, Gimp and Nez (and those from the past) for the job you guys have done and are doing.

Next year's Texas States is going to be the best ever. The scope of what Nez and Gimp are planning is truly fantastic. They are going to put this tournament on the map, not just as the best in Texas, but as one of the best in the country. Put it on your calendar now!

Andi can �claim� it is personal all she wants, but I assure you anyone in similar circumstances would have been treated the exact same way.



So you're saying that if I paid to play Rec Master, you would've put me in Juniors under 12 because of my rating, rather than putting me with people my own age?

































































































(that's a joke, for those who care)

:cool:

I have no rock to climb under, maybe a Live Oak, but not a rock.

I am not flaming anybody, I am sure it was a great tournie for almost all involved. I am glad you had such a wonderful tournament, good job on raising the added cash and all your efforts with disc golf.

This could have all been avoided if the questions were answered in the beginning with clear reasons on why a Pro was going to be put with Intermediate men.

I have explained myself already and I even said in the beginning I wasnt trying to start trouble. I wish I could have made it to Tx States but life got in the way.

The issue may be stupid to you, but I dont think it is a stupid issue because women have to deal with it all the time.

Andi was not the one who claimed it was personal.

Maybe the karma will come my way, I dont know why it would though, maybe for asking a rules questions of a TD for an A Tier tournament.

Oh and sweetie, no one said you or Team Disaster were terrible. Because we dont agree on this ruling doesnt mean anyone is evil or terrible.

In your case Mark,

Under 12 would be with people who's age you act. :D :D :D

Dont bring the ROCK into this or there will be HELL to pay :D

In your case Mark,

Under 12 would be with people who act your age. :D :D :D




BEST. POST. EVER.

Next year's Texas States is going to be the best ever. The scope of what Nez and Gimp are planning is truly fantastic. They are going to put this tournament on the map, not just as the best in Texas, but as one of the best in the country. Put it on your calendar now!

Looks like Nelle is the REAL GrunioN. :o:D:D:D

In your case Mark,

Under 12 would be with people who act your age. :D :D :D




BEST. POST. EVER.



NOT. FREAKIN. FUNNY.





































Okay, well, a little funny, but far from the best post ever. Young Mr. Bender needs a history lesson, crammed between those oh-so-necessary putting lessons.

So you're saying that if I paid to play Rec Master, you would've put me in Juniors under 12 because of my rating, rather than putting me with people my own age?


There is no Rec Master division anymore.

So you're saying that if I paid to play Rec Master, you would've put me in Juniors under 12 because of my rating, rather than putting me with people my own age?


There is no Rec Master division anymore.



That was where the "joke" reference may have served you well, ya dam hippie.

The issue may be stupid to you, but I dont think it is a stupid issue because women have to deal with it all the time.



No women do NOT have to deal with this all the time� Women in one-person age protected divisions, just like men who want to play divisions like �Legends� and Pro Grandmasters will face the same hurdles. Talking about where to place ONE FPO is completely different than this situation imo�

No he just has a lot of hAiR to <font color="red">SpAiR </font> :D

I just can't stay out of this thread because it sounds so familiar! :eek:

It all makes sence to me!!! Go Astros!!!!
:D

May I suggest that when there are only 2 women playing open and there is added cash that you make some effort to make the 2nd place finisher, somewhat happy about attending the event. We are trying to get more women to play. There are 2 women, the World Champ and the 3rd place finisher at the worlds, then maybe the payout should give both women a reason to come back. We all know both women can't win but $300 for 1st and $0 for 2nd :confused: :confused: Its going to be hard to convince my lady to come back.

This is more of a PDGA issue than a Texas State issue but a better payout would have been $250 for 1st and $50 for 2nd. As a whole we need to support EVERY WOMAN that comes out to play. We as a whole should bend ANY rule to accomidate EACH and EVERY woman that comes out to play in our tournaments.

just my opionion.

AMEN

This is more of a PDGA issue than a Texas State issue



Not true. The PDGA doesn't advise how added cash should be distributed. And, even if there wasn't added cash, the PDGA rarely admonishes TDs for deviations from payout tables, especially when there are good reasons. This is purely a TD call to support additional women's places. If there are special payout considerations being made in any division, it's always helpful to indicate that ahead of time so even more women might have considered coming.

This is more of a PDGA issue than a Texas State issue



Not true. The PDGA doesn't advise how added cash should be distributed. And, even if there wasn't added cash, the PDGA rarely admonishes TDs for deviations from payout tables, especially when there are good reasons. This is purely a TD call to support additional women's places. If there are special payout considerations being made in any division, it's always helpful to indicate that ahead of time so even more women might have considered coming.



Maybe I should have worded it diferent to say "This is a PDGA payout table issue." The main point I'm trying to make is that with the low numbers of women playing especially OPEN Women. We need to do everything in our power to accomidate to their needs to try and grow their numbers.

Well said Kev...I saw the payout for Pro Women and wondered why Courtney did not get any $$$$...Isn't TX the state that usually caters to women?

Don't worry Peavy, if you take 2nd to Des again at the OO you will get paid something...In Okie land we love female disc golfers :D I have a feeling Peavy might pull a win out this weekend anyway.

word, increase the ratio of women to men.

Im sure most of us wouldn't mind meeting a disc golf lady.

Both Des and Courtney are sponsored by Innova. Only the winner in womens division get a performance bonus from Innova. Of course it's not the responsibility of the TD to know the bonus structure but Des got an extra $200 for her win, so that made her trip worth $500, and second place ended up with $0. Thats going to make it tough for a woman to think the tournament value is worth it, especially when they are going up against the 2-time World Champ.

My opinion is that when divisions are under 3 or 5 especially in the Womens division that the payout needs to be much more flat and compensate more.

While many TDs use the payout tables when added cash is included, some or all of sponsor cash or cash generated from the event is fair game for being distributed in ways outside the suggested payout table and it's not against any PDGA guideline. The payout tables have already been designed to pay out a higher percentage of places in divisions with low field sizes (such as paying 2 out of 3 pros) for the very reasons you're suggesting. So, if TDs are looking for permission to pay out both women or even three in a division, they already have it.

than you better not look back at previous year payouts with small divisions. i think Andi had added cash to a 1 person division not too long ago. :confused:

2003 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=3749#Open)

2004 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4039#Masters)

While many TDs use the payout tables when added cash is included, some or all of sponsor cash or cash generated from the event is fair game for being distributed in ways outside the suggested payout table and it's not against any PDGA guideline. The payout tables have already been designed to pay out a higher percentage of places in divisions with low field sizes (such as paying 2 out of 3 pros) for the very reasons you're suggesting. So, if TDs are looking for permission to pay out both women or even three in a division, they already have it.



So Chuck are you saying that this is the fault of the TD? I just want to be on the record for saying I don't blame the TD, or Houston for this. I'm just wanting to make more people aware of situations like this. Being a TD is a thankless job and I'm thankful for all the hard work of every TD at every tourney.

I think what Chuck is saying is that the TD has the flexibility to "pad" the ladies division if he/she felt to do so.....sadly it did not happen last weekend.

I'm sure that $25 for second would have been greatly appreciated...DISC GOLF WOMEN RULE!!!

than you better not look back at previous year payouts with small divisions. i think Andi had added cash to a 1 person division not too long ago. :confused:

2003 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=3749#Open)

2004 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4039#Masters)



Yep, there was added cash in both those tourneys for the Open Ladies Division.

good work, chris!

2003, Andi gets $175 for "winning" a one person division
2004, Andi gets $250 for winning a two person division

winnings = $425
total entry fee for the entire divisions = dont know exactly, but it was way less than what she won

the travesty is NOT placing her on a card with similarly skilled players and guaranteeing her first place cash.

the travesty is paying out 1 and 2 person divisions at over 100%, especially when the division is gender and/or age protected!

BIG FAT WORD ON THAT!

Except when the added cash is donated to a specific division.

I know that at least $100 of the cash added to the Pro Women in TX States was donated specifically to that division. :D

That is true SeeWhere...

It was a cash-flush year, Andi and I were dating at the time and she had put forth a huge effort on behalf of Texas States that year in raising the near-record amount of cash.

That year we also awarded the 1st place Master division with $1,000 as well as added cash in an MPG field of 2. Both of which caused some controversy but not too much considering that MPO division had 26 players, we paid down to 10 places with 1st place cash at $1,500.

The fund-raising for these last two years has been very difficult and I know that we are trying to focus efforts toward the Texas State/NT in 2006. Whether we have a good year of fund-raising or not, everything we raise always goes back to the players...some years are better than others. Most of the AM side in 2003 was paid out at between 130% for MM1 to 160% for FW3. We added about $1,500 total in cash to the AM purse as well.

Houston has always done what it could to try and reward and encourage female players...I think in this case, not awarding Courtney with something was an oversight on our part. I'm sure that we will take care of Courtney somehow...you'll see Kev!

This stuff happens from time to time and certainly you can forgive an oversight such as this once in a while when during the "heat of the moment" in a tourney the size of States it occurs.

give Courtney free entry next year!

Houston has always done what it could to try and reward and encourage female players...I think in this case, not awarding Courtney with something was an oversight on our part. I'm sure that we will take care of Courtney somehow...you'll see Kev!

This stuff happens from time to time and certainly you can forgive an oversight such as this once in a while when during the "heat of the moment" in a tourney the size of States it occurs.




This wasn't the first time I've seen this has happened. It has happened to other ladies out there at other events. Like I said earlier, I'm not blaming or mad at the TD for this. I'm actually just trying to bring light to this situation so that we don't start driving the very limited numbers of women out there out of this great game. Until we can get the numbers up in the womens divisions, it's just my opinion that we compinsate more of them to keep them coming back for more.

It's not so much blaming the TD, as education. Being the one who updates the PDGA payout tables for the past 7-8 years and being involved calculating major event payouts, the PDGA shouldn't be taking any heat for preventing TDs from using deeper payouts to support women, juniors or specific sponsor requests. Most TDs at higher tier levels know what flexibility they have so this should be preaching to the choir. For any newer TDs, perhaps more guidance from the PDGA on what their options can be would be helpful.

While I agree with the need to pad some divisions, I think the basic PDGA pay charts need to be enforced (at least for entry based payout), or the players alerted to deviations ahead of time.

I would have no problem with the payout being supplemented with added cash, but the base line should be something that a player could depend upon.

I think in this case, not awarding Courtney with something was an oversight on our part. I'm sure that we will take care of Courtney somehow...you'll see Kev!





Very cool you are taking care of Peavy...she's a sweetheart and it sux there are not more woman disc golfers for her to compete with. We need more girls like her in our sport.

I know first hand that playing against Des is a tough task, she beat me handily at the USDGC.

pro ladies should and will go to events that promote the fact they want the ladies...big bad we are going to be a super tour("forgets" to pay a touring pro)...and 2 pro ladies seems to be a record at said big event...maybe "oversights" are the reason for the low womens turnout...and one last thing,would Andi have gotten the special treatment she wanted if she where not the ex-girlfriend(seems like she got it when she was) :o

First, Des sends big thanks to Gary Duke for his Women Specific Sponsorship. :D
The women have always had a tough time forming consistant numbers in the six years we have been around. Some years better than others. Des believes Courtney should have been given a small payout ($25-$50) to encourage return trips, however, the practice of paying out all the women when there are more than two with cash is not fair to the top women that work very hard to solidify their skills.
You can make women feel glad they came or welcomed in other ways as well.1)offering lightweight plastic as extra player pack or bottom finishers 2)special awards for non-cashers including soaps, flowers, gas cards, donated gift certificates, 3)sponsor the entry fees (charge less to women due to someone sponsoring the difference) Just lowering the entry fee lowers the payout and works much better if it is sponsored.

Kevin-Players sponsorships have no consideration for the tournament payout. Those are personal contracts and involve the player and the company they represent.

Sandalman-Whether its two people or ten, the Pro Women represent the very best that our sport has to offer. Old Men are just that that. Women are different than men, good thing, because if you wore a skirt, both Des and Courtney would be taking you down, buddy :p ;).

Maybe that is what is holding the sport back, a handful of people always have to [I'm a potty-mouth!] on every tourney after it is over.

Crap like" our tourney is better then yours, nah nah na boo boo" is ridiculously childish and not too mention totally unprofessional.

Texas States 2005 was a huge success and the NT TX States 06 will be even better !!

Women are different than men, good thing, because if you wore a skirt, both Des and Courtney would be taking you down, buddy

hehe, no argument there, friend. they'd take me down even if i wear my usual male-type clothes. Des's 84 on the West 27 was insane!

I'm just wondering what the statements would have been if there had been 2 Pro Grand Masters and the $300 payout had been split $250/$50.

I hear a lot of complaints now from the Pro players that we pay too deep, and the winner's don't get enough. I think if you want to attract the women, you have to make the event experience worth the trip and entry fee, not the payout.

Now all that I need to know is what it would take to do that, how to bottle it, and where to retire to with the royalties. :cool:

nice... the turnout and payout are getting smaller every year...professional "oversights" might and in this case where the cause of people not feeling good about returning next year...do we see a trend here...and I personally hope next year is a hugh success(and will give me a reason to return)...nothing personal, and nothing i have not said before...how will we improve as a sport by ignoring our problems?

I think what Chuck is saying is that the TD has the flexibility to "pad" the ladies division if he/she felt to do so.....sadly it did not happen last weekend.

I'm sure that $25 for second would have been greatly appreciated...DISC GOLF WOMEN RULE!!!



All they had to do was ask. Pro payout was posted Saturday during lunch. For the record, I feel that in two person divisions, especially Pro, that you should play for "something". In this case it was entry fee plus $130. If participants feel different, all they have to do is talk to us during the event.

$25 for 2nd taken away from 1st place payout seems like a slap in the face to me for a $85 entry fee, but I am not a pro woman disc golfer, so ladies please let me know next year. Not that either of you are the ones bringing up these VITAL issues in this thread.

For the record, both women received a $13 value player�s pack for their entry as well.

Let the witch-hunts continue�

Gary has some good points there.

I think you can lump the FPM situation the same way with the MPG scenario...would it be such an issue if the person was male? (And for the record, I think the person involved did influence the decision, BUT I think the right decision was made to accomodate a 1-person division. Be it male, female, professional, or amatuer, no 1-person division should get higher priority in the accomodations than the rest, unless it's the highest divisions available--MPO or FPO).

One thing about attracting women to events, is it's usually the same women over and over getting the same "rewards" for showing up. The overall experience, lower fees, etc. are the ideas that need to be looked at more than paying out most/all women. Otherwise, aren't we just creating another class of "entitled" players (like the Men's Amatuer divisions)?

$25 for 2nd taken away from 1st place payout seems like a slap in the face to me for a $85 entry fee, but I am not a pro woman disc golfer, so ladies please let me know next year. Not that either of you are the ones bringing up these VITAL issues in this thread.

For the record, both women received a $13 value player�s pack for their entry as well.

Let the witch-hunts continue�



I did not mean to come across the wrong way by suggesting $25 to 2nd place was the right thing to do...I was only pointing out that even a little something would be appreciated considering we have very few females in our sport...I'm a firm believer in hooking female disc golfers up more than the men.

turnout and payout are getting smaller every year...professional "oversights" might and in this case where the cause of people not feeling good about returning next year...



What are you talking about? There has always been added cash in the women's pro divisions... Payout in AM was 143% - - is this not good enough for ANOTHER person complaining about an event they did not attend???

no witch hunt John...sounds like you are open to and flexable about payout and the ladies...good to see...a solid ladies turnout would solve the payout issue and the one and two player division issues...the payout was not the real problem(the number of players caused the issues)...sounds like overall the event was well ran( and better ran than in the past)...good luck on the NT...now I am off to play a round with a "pro" lady...unpro Mitch

2nd place in a two person division is last place, no matter how you slice it. Pro division women should not be catered to so that "no one loses". It is a bad precedent. States is a competition to see who is who in dg (that is who is who of who shows up!). If my wife would have shown up and played in they're division, even though she is a casual player, should she have gotten payed out? Why play in any other division then?

what do i mean...2003 total pros 52 payout $7,740...........2004 total pros 37 payout $5,766...........2005 total pros 38 payout $5,358...........52-38/7,740-5,358...and John you know why I did not attend :p

Cool, at 171% payout in the Pro division. That is pretty good ini my book.

nice... the turnout and payout are getting smaller every year...professional "oversights" might and in this case where the cause of people not feeling good about returning next year...do we see a trend here...and I personally hope next year is a hugh success(and will give me a reason to return)...nothing personal, and nothing i have not said before...how will we improve as a sport by ignoring our problems?



2001 - 216 players - just after 911, people gas was still cheap, players were still traveling

2002 - 129 players - in the last year, lots of players were out of jobs, recesion kicked everyones butts, but States still had some traveling players.

2003 - 107 players - I think this was the year of no traveling players. (and the great flood of Tom Bass)

2004 - 150 players - HFDS moves tournament to October to try to make a southern tour with OO, States, VPO, and ZT10. Not many touring pros show up, but did get some out of texas players

2005 - 142 players - South of Houston is still recovering from Rita, gas prices were as high as $3 per gallon recently. There were very few motel rooms for out of town players to get.

The only trend I see here is that Texas States is doing a great job of keeping there tournament going despite the economy and natural disasters.

I look forward to 2006 NT tour this next April. I will have it as one of my must play events. I could very well be my first 2 day tournament in the last several years.

If my wife would have shown up and played in they're division, even though she is a casual player, should she have gotten payed out?



In my opinion, YES!!!!

If some people think that woman players should be sent home with nothing than so be it...tournaments take a lot of work, a Tournament Director has the right to set-up and pay out the tournament as they see fit and I have no argument with that.

"Otherwise, aren't we just creating another class of "entitled" players (like the Men's Amatuer divisions)?

[/QUOTE]

Great point Tony, I was thinking something like that but did not know how to express it.

what do i mean...2003 total pros 52 payout $7,740...........2004 total pros 37 payout $5,766...........2005 total pros 38 payout $5,358...........52-38/7,740-5,358...and John you know why I did not attend :p



To look at �just� pro payout in this event is shortsighted imo. This year we guaranteed just $1500 added to pro because we are building to the huge NT event in the spring. We actually added just over $2,000. Last year AMS were paid out at 100% exactly � this year we paid out at 143%.

A few additions and corrections

2001 - 216 players - just after 911, people gas was still cheap, players were still traveling (the biggest flood EVER at Bass)

2002 - 129 players � EVENT HAPPENED RIGHT AFTER HOUSTON THREW A LAST MIN PRO WORLDS - in the last year, lots of players were out of jobs, recession kicked everyone�s butts, but States still had some traveling players.

2003 � 191 players (107 players + 84 ams) - I think this was the year of no traveling players. (and the great flood of Tom Bass)

2004 - 150 players - HFDS moves tournament to October to try to make a southern tour with OO, States, VPO, and ZT10. Not many touring pros show up, but did get some out of Texas players.

2005 - 142 players - South of Houston is still recovering from Rita, gas prices were as high as $3 per gallon recently. There were very few motel rooms for out of town players to get. PERFECT WEATHER

2006 �NT moves to Houston � look for big things!

Last year AMS were paid out at 100% exactly � this year we paid out at 143%.



How much of that Gimp was the bonus money accumulated throughout your series?

Last year AMS were paid out at 100% exactly � this year we paid out at 143%.



How much of that Gimp was the bonus money accumulated throughout your series?



The bonus money goes to the NT event /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Matt got it - zero. Happy B-DAY! :D

No worries, good job. See you soon. Maybe I will make the NT event next year.

Chris

Yea, what Gimp was working on was a way to raise up money for Texas States by incorporating it into a series finals, thereby helping raise up funds for a better payout.

Not a bad idea, but little notice.

(BTW, added money in Am divisions is really a missnomer, it is really just a better deal on the plastic they got, instead of getting a disc for $15 this year at states, they really got it for $10.49. Not a bad deal at all)

Who is in charge of sponsorships for 2006 Texas States? (and did you get the stuff I sent down this year?)

Allright , we have seen the stats on this years event over and over let the dead horse RIP.What are the optimistic goals and aspirations for next years event!!I am sure that is a difficult equation at this point but there must be some sort if preliminary goal..Share your vision as to what we may all help to achieve for next years NT event!! :D

Allright , we have seen the stats on this years event over and over let the dead horse RIP.What are the optimistic goals and aspirations for next years event!!I am sure that is a difficult equation at this point but there must be some sort if preliminary goal..Share your vision as to what we may all help to achieve for next years NT event!! :D




A win. :D:D

When is it? Will it be raining?

Allright , we have seen the stats on this years event over and over let the dead horse RIP.What are the optimistic goals and aspirations for next years event!!I am sure that is a difficult equation at this point but there must be some sort if preliminary goal..Share your vision as to what we may all help to achieve for next years NT event!! :D




A win. :D:D



I freakin dare you!!! ;)

since Texas States DiscGolfChampionships is gonna start rotating around the state, the 2006 even will be held at Circle C in Austin.

its in March.

no, it wont rain, but that IS at the tailend of our snow season.

April 22-23
Texas States (http://www.pdga.com/schedule/event.php?TournID=5455)

Not a bad idea, but little notice.



Plenty of notice for the 2007 Texas States and there is still time if someone wants to run a qualifier for this year. Some TD's have expressed an interest in the 2007 qualifiers I hope some of it comes through.


(BTW, added money in Am divisions is really a missnomer, it is really just a better deal on the plastic they got, instead of getting a disc for $15 this year at states, they really got it for $10.49. Not a bad deal at all).



Well this year the merch was leveraged at cost. There are TONS of costs with this event...


Who is in charge of sponsorships for 2006 Texas States? (and did you get the stuff I sent down this year?).



Myself and Nez for sponsors this year. Hopefully Susan and Cecil will help again as well. Anyone else want to step up?

Yes thank you for the donation - - the raffle was EPIC!

what cfr discs will be available? definately sb something they will sell like hotcakes!!! :D

will the entry fees be the same as this year? where is the host hotel? what food will be available at the course? haha :D

Food is Good & good food is even better :p, also is there any way to have a roped off Beer garden. I hate to see people get fined for having a cold one :D

It was short notice for me

Lets talk about 2007 though.

Coor's Light for me please.. I really wanted one of those burritos from last year...Wait, no, I wanted a fresh one.

I will get right to work on that one Erron! :D

In 2003, we landed a local (and highly rated) brewery for a sponsor - St. Arnold's.

No cash, but up to 10 kegs of their product. If we can solicit enough "donations" via a tip-like jar to pay for the law enforcement officer because a. we have group of way over 100 people b. we are gonna serve alcoholic beverages then we'll do it.

In 2003, we got enough donations to pay for it and then some. In 2004 we managed to collect about $200 which only paid for one of the required 2 officers. (We negotiated for only one officer sometimes but we tell them officially 99 people.) Historically, we haven't been any trouble so they've pretty much left us alone. The officer we paid for this year was pretty cool, but the guy that wrote all of the tickets was on a mountain bike and part of the park's own patrol. Because we didn't get St. Arnold's sponsorship again for this States, we didn't hire any extra duty officers for security. They might very well have been scoping us more closely this year to see if we were doing the same thing only without paying for extra security.

We'll get that all sorted out for sure and hopefully St. Arnold can sponsor us again for 2006. (It was interesting that St. Arnold said that they definitely noticed an increase in local sales in the wake of our pumping as much publicity about them as we could. Support the sponsors that support our sport!!!...and let them know it too!!! )

I'm glad everyone seems to have enjoyed the courses and their condition so much this year.

Jerry "Bass Master" Crites is the guy who is the chief contact between disc golfers and county parks precinct 1 out there, and he deserves most of the credit for finally successfully communicating to the parks mowing crews the concept of fairways. I think that in spite of the bee-line drive from #14'!s short box straight to #11's basket, they "got it" pretty good. I can't wait to see how they'll do in the Spring!

I'll have to do a little bit of homework on the weather.com website to see what our rainfall averages in April...but I can tell you that it is just about the peak of wildflower blossoms. Even if it is soggy - it'll still look great! :D

Since we are talking about so many things here I thought I would promote this tired TD's event this weekend here as well LMFAO :cool:


THIS WEEKEND!!! FlynHighDiscGolf.com Circle R Lone Star Series Qualifier

The weather is looking nice for this weekends Circle R event. Remember to sign up early at www.titledisc.com (http://www.titledisc.com) or the Cricle R pro shop and you will receive a players pack (both pro and AM players!). We will also be taking sign ups until 9:00 sharp the day of the event.

We will play both courses and everyone will shoot for the $1,000 plus ace pot that has been carrying over!

Hope to see you all there.

Gimp

Circle R FlynHighDiscGolf.com Lone Star Series
Circle R Ranch, Wimberley, Texas, October 29th
PDGA C-Tier

Team Disaster Disc Golf Promotions is proud to present the Circle R FlynHighDiscGolf.com Lone Star Series qualifier, at Circle R Ranch in Wimberley, Texas. Each division will play both the Meadows and the Hill course.

Event specifics for the Moffitt qualifier:
- 2 rounds of 18-holes
- Sign up before the day of the event and receive a players pack (any division)
- One night free camping for tournament players, guests are subject to a $5 per night camping fee (see below for Circle R details)

FlynHighDiscGolf.com Lone Star Series specifics:
- 100% payout in quality pick your plastic for amateur�s and cash for pro�s
- Full Color Framed trophies for division winners (Pro, Advanced Men, Advanced Women, Intermediate Men, Recreational Women, Recreational Men, Junior under 16)
- Any division opened for two or more (no trophy)
- Personalized Points Championship Trophies for top finishers based on top four finishes throughout the series (to be awarded at the 2006 Texas States Disc Golf Championship)
- You only need to play in ONE qualifier to qualify for the bonus payout this year.
- $3 to the Series Bonus payout and $1 to the Food Bank

How do I sign up?
Either sign up with a credit card on www.titledisc.com (http://www.titledisc.com) or fill out this form and mail the form and check to: John Edwards, 6014 Sanford, Houston, Texas 77096. If you do not pre-register, signups conclude at 9:00 AM SHARP on the day of the event. If you are there by 9:00 AM you are IN! Send your name, PDGA#, Phone number, email address.

Please check all that apply: Pro $50 _____, Advanced $35_____, Intermediate $30 _____, Recreational/Junior _____ $25, Greens Fee $5 ____ Optional Ace Pot $5 _____, and Non-PDGA member fee $5 _____

Total Enclosed (Division, plus greens fee, plus option ace pot, plus Non-PDGA fee if not current) _____

By entering a Team Disaster disc golf tournament you agree to abide by all the rules and conditions of each event. The decisions of the tournament directors will be final. The tournament directors reserve the right to refuse entry, or disqualify players for infractions to these rules and laws. All PDGA rules apply along with any conditions detailed at each players meeting. Also by entering each event you hold no liability to the host city, tournament directors, sponsors, promoters, staff or volunteers.

Questions can be sent to: Gimp@TeamDisasterDiscGolf.com
John can also be reached at: (832) 279-8084
Check out our web page at: TeamdDisasterDiscGolf.com

CAMPING RULES

►All guests must arrive no later than 9:00 p.m. � No exceptions.
►No vehicles will be allowed beyond the parking area - No exceptions.
►All guests must check in at pro shop.
►All guests must complete a Circle R Liability Waiver.
►Guests sleeping in cars or RV�s must leave vehicles in parking area.
►No firearms or fireworks under any circumstance.
►Campfires permitted within existing fire pits ONLY.
►Please place all camping trash in main dumpster in front of pro shop and not in the course trashcans.
►You are fully responsible for your pets. If they cannot be controlled please place them on a leash.

� Circle R Disc Golf Ranch is a private facility and staffed by disc golfers.

� Please be considerate of the property, our neighbors, and Amelia.

� Thank you and we hope you enjoy your stay.

sounds great !! :D

who got tickets for drinking beer? not I :D

you were already gone ware!! ;)

yep yep knew that would happen. they get someone just about every year when there is no permit

Weather Info for 2006 Texas States April 22-23.

<table border="1"><tr><td> Weather Averages - Houston TX</td><td></td></tr><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td>month</td><td>April</td><td>October</td><td>September
</td></tr><tr><td>Hi Temp.</td><td>79</td><td>82</td><td>89
</td></tr><tr><td>Lo Temp.</td><td>58</td><td>60</td><td>69
</td></tr><tr><td>Precip.</td><td>3.48</td><td>4.03</td><td>5.82
</td></tr><tr><td> </tr></td></table>

Interestingly, September (our old date) has the highest average rainfall of the year. October is a bit better, but the month of April is even better still! Milder temps and less chance of rain! Yayyyy! (Oh yeah...and more daylight hours too!)

Now this is a good payout for the ladies Open Division:
2004 Oklahoma Open (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4040)

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Maybe that is what is holding the sport back, a handful of people always have to [I'm a potty-mouth!] on every tourney after it is over.

Crap like" our tourney is better then yours, nah nah na boo boo" is ridiculously childish and not too mention totally unprofessional.

Texas States 2005 was a huge success and the NT TX States 06 will be even better !!

Yeah, right.

Glad to see you agree :D

Now this is a good payout for the ladies Open Division:
2004 Oklahoma Open (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4040)



Go pump your tourney in your own thread i*d*i*o*t

Stop acting like 5 year olds...You guys can't even take constructive criticism. I never once bashed your tournament, just took notice of the payout in the ladies division and mentioned this is how WE do it...you guys remind me of Mack Brown.

The biggest difference there is that OO had 6 FPOs and we had 2. Percentage of entry fee-wise, OO was 176% and TS was 169%. Very comparable. Both indicate big-time support of the females playing in our sport.

Thank you Ching, atleast you have class.

I'll stop talking about your payout for women, I never meant to ruffle feathers....Personally, I appreciate good criticism because it's a really good way to make things better.

Thank you Ching, atleast you have class.




Please don't tell my girlfriend! :D(She'll want to see me start wearing tuxedos and socks and stuff again!) :D

Do you even run events? Constructive criticism is nice and appreciated, perhaps in a private email, especially the week after the event.

Another tourney thread was not the place to tout how great you are. The PM dropping F-bombs and challenging me to a fight was very nice too - - you are indeed a class act...

Okay now...... Let's go play some golf already. Isn't that what it is all about??? If you aren't having FUN, then find another hobbie, sport or maybe get on your local debate team!! I personally had a blast at states and I think everyone else did too. Now let's learn from mistakes and make the next one even better!! Be nice and have fun.... :D

Do you even run events? Constructive criticism is nice and appreciated, perhaps in a private email, especially the week after the event.

Another tourney thread was not the place to tout how great you are. The PM dropping F-bombs and challenging me to a fight was very nice too - - you are indeed a class act...



A fight? Go ahead and post my PM gimp, I never once threatened you or challenged you to a fight...frikin loser.

Do you even run events?



Yes I do run events, unsanctioned fundraisers for upcoming tournaments and I'm not talking about minis...raising money to increase payouts and players packs is pretty common....I love running unsanctioned events, the ladies get paid out no matter what.

A fight?? Thanks for the laugh, GIMP.

Sounds like a thumb war between TEXAS and the Land Thieves!!!!!! :o

"From: M_Conners
name calling eh?

FBOMB you man...i'll be at TX 10 if you feel like name calling to my face.

MC "

Ok - I'll post it - - I think most people would agree that you are calling me out in this PM - -perhaps you need to be more careful with your wording if you were not looking for a fight.

That�s great that you are going to have wonderful payout for the FPO women at your event - - I'll look forward to reading about it on YOUR thread genius.... :D

Personally, I don�t see what was wrong with $130 added to $170 in entries for the women�s division at States. Honesty, I don�t care to debate it with people who were not at the event any longer. Be sure to call States out on YOUR thread - - I�ll be sure to be there to read it ***roll eyes***
:eek:

so connors will be at the TX 10??? Sweet I got your back gimp.. :D:p :D

**** kids!! :p

Good Job Tulsa Treating the Women right!!

1 Des Reading 15863 957 51 56 56 49 -4 212 $500
2 Carrie Berlogar 13851 883 56 54 54 56 +4 220 $270
3 Angela Tschiggfrie 16594 918 57 61 58 54 +14 230 $165
4 Courtney Peavy 18835 931 67 60 57 54 +22 238 $75
5 Kristen Cherry 19654 853 68 58 63 61 +34 250 $50
6 Emily Lawrence 25546 824 69 62 68 68 +51 267 $40



Here ya go, Gimpy ;)

so connors will be at the TX 10??? Sweet I got your back gimp.. :D:p :D



Whatever.

Whatever.

Yup.

Some people simply can't handle the truth.......SAD :(

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Don't worry Tejas, my last post on this thread :D

now if we can just keep his [I'm a potty-mouth!] on the other side of the red river!! :p I'm sure the envy is driving you nut's , get used to it you live in oklahoma!! :p

Maybe he's an Oklahoma football fan... :p I'ld be [I'm a potty-mouth!] too blowing a lead like that.

The Oklahoma players aren't against Texas, he11 thats where Half the Okie players make most of their money. ;)

The Oklahoma players aren't against Texas, he11 thats where Half the Okie players make most of their money. ;)



thats a sad statement!! you guy's should support your top players better than that , before they get smart and leave that waste land !! the grass is definately greener on our side of the river!!! :D

Mike Conners - I'm not trying to discourage you from being proud of the event in your neck of the woods. It appears that a very fine show was put on. Congratulations are due to all of the Oklahoma Open staffers and organizers.

But there seems to be a bunch of inaccurate or mis-information being slung back and forth. Part of it might be unfamiliarity with how tournament financial stuff actually works.

I see that this year, you had 6 FPOs playing. At $110 entry fees, that is $660 in total FPO entry fees. Mr. Forest asserted that there was $1100 added cash to FPO division. That was flat inaccurate...there was a total payout of $1100, but if you subtract out the $660 in entry fees, that means that only $440 cash was added. If you take the total payout of $1100 and divide that by $660 you can derive a payout percentage of 166% payout. In actual fact, the OO paid out a smaller percentage of entry fee to its FPO players this year than it did last year. (Last year was about 175%.)

OO paid out all players in the FPO division. Great. I can see that is a good thing in the Am divisions, but it seems a little weird to see that happening in any Pro division. It doesn't seem to appropriately award the best Pro player for the work and practice that she logs continually all year long in an effort to improve her game. Not saying that the OO way is necessarily wrong Mike, just saying that it is a difference of philosophy regarding the Professional divisions. What I don't like seeing is the slamming of one event over another based on these philosophical differences.

The Pro divisions are just that...Professional. It is the reason why there is only a top 1/3 payout in those divisions and they are pretty top-heavy.

The Oklahoma players aren't against Texas, he11 thats where Half the Okie players make most of their money. ;)



thats a sad statement!! you guy's should support your top players better than that , before they get smart and leave that waste land !! the grass is definately greener on our side of the river!!! :D




The grass isn't greener on your side, just more <font color="green">$$$$ </font> to be taken back to Oklahoma.

OK maybe one more post:

I doubt anybody cares about your payout figures. I don't see any Open men complaining, Ching....I have not heard one complaint about the payout for any divisions except from 1 advanced bagger who likes to whord discs.

Ching, where is the slamming you speak of?!? Is it because I complained about the ladies payout? I challenge you to find where I "slammed" the TX States? I made ONE simple point and you guys went off on it. Is it wrong to question why TX states stiffed a female touring pro for getting last/second place? If a TD does not want to hook up the ladies that is HIS/HER call, pretty pathetic but the decision is in the TD's hands, end of story.

I pointed out to all disc golfers (paticuliarly ladies) that Oklahoma treats women different, which we do. If I get lashed by TX players for doing so than so be it, that is fine by me....fact is Oklahoma treats women great.

By the way I'm an OSU fan, this is the 3rd year in a row we have blown a lead to the shorthorns....lucky bast ards.

Isn't it funny, how sensitive some folks can be when certain facts are pointed out?

It must have hit a chord of some type. Mistakes are made, and as long as something is gained for future use, it's all good.

They just must not have had any good role models on how to treat ladies when they were growing up. Lizard's are hatched so who knows what Larry's excuse is. LOL :o

Just hard for some of us to admit we're not perfect. (that is everyone but me!) :D

I knew you couldn't leave it alone.

:D

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Don't worry Tejas, my last post on this thread :D



Allright now we can officially discredit everything you have said on this thread!! You have confirmed the fact that your statements are completely full of dung!!! :p :p :p

Is it wrong to question why TX states stiffed a female touring pro for getting last/second place?



I don't get to read the board much, but someone mentioned something about some "issues" related to Texas States. I don't have enough time to read it all. Is the issue that the second place finisher in a two person field did not get paid?

Nope,

It's about the Faustian bargain that Gimp made to keep it from raining.

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Don't worry Tejas, my last post on this thread :D



Allright now we can officially discredit everything you have said on this thread!! You have confirmed the fact that your statements are completely full of dung!!! :p :p :p



Changed my mind due to false accusations directed towards me. I never slammed the tournament, only the ladies payout and you guys jumped all over me for that. I also never challenged Gimp to a fight, he was looking for anything he could to make me look bad cause I bad mouthed the ladies payout. I was taught at a young age not to back down unless I know I am in the wrong, Gimp insulted me by starting the name calling...If I deserved to be called names I would admit it, in this case I did not.

People criticise tournaments on this board every day, why can't you guys just accept that?? Ever heard of that thing called a "learning experience"?? Might want to look it up.

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Don't worry Tejas, my last post on this thread :D



Allright now we can officially discredit everything you have said on this thread!! You have confirmed the fact that your statements are completely full of dung!!! :p :p :p



Changed my mind due to false accusations directed towards me. I never slammed the tournament, only the ladies payout and you guys jumped all over me for that. I also never challenged Gimp to a fight, he was looking for anything he could to make me look bad cause I bad mouthed the ladies payout. I was taught at a young age not to back down unless I know I am in the wrong, Gimp insulted me by starting the name calling...If I deserved to be called names I would admit it, in this case I did not.

People criticise tournaments on this board every day, why can't you guys just accept that?? Ever heard of that thing called a "learning experience"?? Might want to look it up.


and there you go again!! let it go amigo , let it go , you can do it!! you can post millions of posts and you know what? history will not change!!! instead of beating a dead horse why don't you volunteer yourself and help fund next years womens payout? otherwise the horse is still dead and will remain that way!!! :p think forward man , think forward!! ;)

Thx Salazar, atleast you act civil...I have a hard time letting it go, Gimp rubbed me the wrong way by posting stuff like this:



Now this is a good payout for the ladies Open Division:
2004 Oklahoma Open (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4040)



Go pump your tourney in your own thread i*d*i*o*t


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Gimp - Certified PDGA Official

Conners, STEP AWAY from this thread!

If you would like the same feeling.................then walk outside, go around the corner of your building and begin head butting the wall. This should prove to be similar. ;)

LOL!!! That's great, I think I'll try that

OK, is there a way to IGNORE a thread cuz I can't help myself :p

Don't forget the sharp to stab into your foot while beating your head on the wall. It's needed to create a more realistic simulation of the web experience. :cool:

http://www.sportbikes.com/UBBimages3/840937-Beatingadeadhorse.gif

Only reason that they paid all the ladies at OO, in my opinion is to incourage current and more women to play. You have to take care of the ladies, especially if they are hottt

M_conners seemingly comes to promote his tourney (or one he supports) on the thread of another tourney at the expense of that tourney.

M_conners, that is why you got called an i*d*i*o*t, because it was an i*d*i*o*tic thing to do. If you want to promote your tourney then so be it, if you want to promote your tourney by showing how much better in your mind it is then another then so be it, but do it on the tourney you are promotings thread. Some people , including myself, think that only an [I'm a potty-mouth!]wouldnt know that something like that wasnt cool to do, you know kinda like a slap in the face. Pretty simple really.

OO seemed to be a great tourny from what I hear and congrats on that. I was at TSDGC and it was also a great tourney. Sure there are flaws in both and I am sure that both will be looked into for the future.

Scott, I already gave up...

In Texas we treat the pros AND the AMS well BTW - - nice 110% payout for an A-tier there in AM. 143% sounds MUCH better to me�

In April, there is going to be MONSTER fat payout in PRO and AM - -

BTW - - your PM would be taken as a challenge to fight to most people - - get over yourself.

LOL some a---s---s rated the tounrey as a one star - - I bet they were not even there...

ahhh don't sweat it...the conversation had turned to single-star material anyway. :D

I can't wait to see us get the 2006 thread started though...it is gonna be an awesome event at a great time of year. With the fixed division sizes, folks are gonna have to jump on top of registration very quickly in order to get into it...and they ARE going to want to play in it with the Lone Star Series bonus payout in the Am divisions. I would imagine that even the ladies from Oklahoma will be impressed with this one! :D

In Texas we treat the pros AND the AMS well BTW - - nice 110% payout for an A-tier there in AM. 143% sounds MUCH better to me�

In April, there is going to be MONSTER fat payout in PRO and AM - -

BTW - - your PM would be taken as a challenge to fight to most people - - get over yourself.




Now, you're comparing percentages. The difference in ours vs. yours, is that ours is to raise money for the 06 Am Worlds, not just for a TD of an event.

Now before you start bashing me, and I can handle it, I have not once touted any Oklahoma anything on the Texas threads, with the exception of Worlds info. I'm not condoning the comparison of one tournamnet to another but I do think that all of the yournaments should pay the entire womens field in order to get more women to play. If there are more women playing, then there will be more men playing. One kind of follows the other.

And if you don't like my opinion, Gimp, then I'll be willing to kick your [I'm a potty-mouth!]! :o

we will sell tickets to raise money to pay all the winners and losers.

but I do think that all of the yournaments should pay the entire womens field in order to get more women to play. If there are more women playing, then there will be more men playing. One kind of follows the other.


that is one of the most insulting things to all women and many men that has ever been posted on this board.

that is not insulting in Okie land :o...and where do i get info on a yournament :o

****, forgot to spell check. :D


Either way, I'll still kick Gimp's azzz! :o

but I do think that all of the yournaments should pay the entire womens field in order to get more women to play. If there are more women playing, then there will be more men playing. One kind of follows the other.


that is one of the most insulting things to all women and many men that has ever been posted on this board.




Insulting or not, its a fact. Obiviously you have never been out on Ladies night at the local clubs.
Ladies get in free with no cover and the guys show up becuase thats where the ladies are.

Do you dispute that?

http://www.sportbikes.com/UBBimages3/840937-Beatingadeadhorse.gif



Hey, Pizza?
Mind if I borrow this?

We can go at this all day or at least til 11:30 when I get off. :D

Now, you're comparing percentages. The difference in ours vs. yours, is that ours is to raise money for the 06 Am Worlds, not just for a TD of an event.




See now you are just talking out your arse. Will you show me where money was raised for the TD of States?? Oh yeah, you cant, because the money made at this years States is all going to the 06 TSDGC National Tour event. :D :D :D

I'm multifunctional, I can talk out of either end. :o

Lean in real close, and I'll let you listen in. :D

wow...lighten up Francis...dumb and violent is no way to go through life son...if you are a racist also we may have found a true Okie :o

Seriously, any tournamnet that raises money for the further promotion of the sport is a good thing. :D

Even if it is in Texas. :o

wow...lighten up Francis...dumb and violent is no way to go through life son...if you are a racist also we may have found a true Okie :o



Racist?
This coming from the State of Texas? :o

Now, dats funny! :D

Take your arse across the boarder you **** Okie!!!!!

What is the acomplishment for these women getting money for dead last place?

Whazzup Twoputz!!!

Long time no harazz!!!!

This whole argument is dumb, and needs be dropped.....

According to him it is like Ladies night at a club, they let them in knowing they get paid so that they can be treated like eye-candy to help bring in more male competitors. WoW, how insulting is that to the women :D :D

I don't know, maybe thats a question for the waitresses at Hooters? :D

Better yet, ask the ladies that got paid, if they were insulted by it? :o


Whats up Cong, long time no hear?

Just stirrin the pot again. ;)

The difference in ours vs. yours, is that ours is to raise money for the 06 Am Worlds, not just for a TD of an event.



Good lord - -why are people talking about stuff they know nothing about... Until I sell all of the left over plastic I am leveraging from this event I LOST money on Texas States - - sorry to disappoint so many people by working for free - - Crawl back into your hole flamer and stop spouting off about things you have no clue about.

You got any of those black putters with the states stamp left?

good freaking grief...I've been trying to stay out of this but even I've had enough. For those complaining about the FPO payout, go look at the Rec Women. That lady who finished last and didn't get anything is my girlfriend. You know how many times she's complained about not getting any payout??/ ZERO!!! She said she lost and didn't deserve anything...stop freaking crying already! She enjoyed a wonderful experience, learned some new things, and that was plenty enough for her!

If you are interested, I have one from last year that's brand new.

Wasn't last year's an Aviar? I have one of those. I like the soft Challenger from this year better I can finally throw a putter over 200'. They just come out of my hand better than the Aviar. Thanks though.

Yep there are some left - - shoot me an IM and I'll get you the details to buy some. $10 each including shipping with all the money but the shipping going to 2006 States!