I know alot of Disc Golfers who are Poor.
They can't even buy new shoes. Duck tape and all.

They are lucky to wear a tee shirt with holes in it.

They may even spend their rent money to play in tournaments.

Their plastic is 5 years old or more , beat up at best.

So , If i understand this thread , these type of people , should not play in tournaments , which require a collard shirt ?

They probably do not own one , or even , ever worn one.

Some even , bumm cigaretts all the time !!!!!!! :mad:

I know alot of Disc Golfers who are Poor.
They can't even buy new shoes. Duck tape and all.

They are lucky to wear a tee shirt with holes in it.

They may even spend their rent money to play in tournaments.

Their plastic is 5 years old or more , beat up at best.

So , If i understand this thread , these type of people , should not play in tournaments , which require a collard shirt ? <font color="orange"> Are you seriously asking this question??? NO they shouldnt be playing in tournaments. If they cant afford shoes or rent they shouldnt be spending their money on disc golf tournaments. They should be buying new shoes and paying rent and buying food and new shirts with that money. </font>

They probably do not own one , or even , ever worn one. <font color="orange"> Like I said above if they cant afford a collared shirt or rent or shoes they shouldnt be paying entry fees. They should be saving that money for things the NEED not playing in disc golf tournaments. </font>

Some even , bumm cigaretts all the time !!!!!!! <font color="orange"> Thats even worse. Now they are spending their rent food and clothes money on disc golf tournaments then coming to the tournament and bumming ciggaretes because they spent all their money on the entry fee. Maybe these people should be out working multiple jobs instead of playing in disc golf tournaments. I mean come on now. If you were broke and poor and couldnt pay rent or buy decent clothes would you spend money and pay entry fees??? </font>

Well...............some Disc Golfers , you can't tell them anything.

Apparently , they love Disc Golf , more than life itself.

So much , it could cost them their livelihood. You would be suprised. :(

Just like I can't go around the world and tell people to Stop Smoking. They usually give you the finger or tell you to F....Off !!!!! :eek:

Well...............some Disc Golfers , you can't tell them anything.

Apparently , they love Disc Golf , more than life itself.

So much , it could cost them their livelihood. You would be suprised.

Just like I can't go around the world and tell people to Stop Smoking. They usually give you the finger or tell you to F....Off !!!!!




So we should cater to these morons??? Just because people dont want to quit smoking doesnt mean they should be doing it and just because broke morons want to play disc golf tournaments doesnt mean they shold and it for sure doesnt mean that we should cater to that kind of person or behavior.

There would be no catering to because it is not a rule from what I have read. Now, if they made it a rule they should furnish shirts. Why would anyone discourage someone from going to a tourney wheather they have financial ignorance or not? Mmmm I dont know but I do know if they play they should not be treated like outcasts!!! :mad:

I know many that have fallen from this disease called discgolf. Some of the best players I have seen are from these groups of misguided unfortunate ones.

There would be no catering to because it is not a rule from what I have read. Now, if they made it a rule they should furnish shirts. Why would anyone discourage someone from going to a tourney wheather they have financial ignorance or not? Mmmm I dont know but I do know if they play they should not be treated like outcasts!!!



If they cant afford the proper clothing to play in tournaments and they are spending rent and clothing and food money on tournaments they shouldnt be there in the first place. If I dont have the money to pay an entry fee beacause I have bills to pay I certainly dont skip a bill payment just to play in a tournament. And I sure as heck dont expect the PDGA to give me a collared shirt to play in when I shouldnt even be playing the tournament in the first place.

Who are you to judge others priorities? Here is the fact. There is no collared shirt rule.

A MAJORITY of people who play disc golf do not play tournaments.

A MAJORITY of people who have played a tournament have not played an A, NT or Worlds event.

The PDGA dress code is only required at those events. All I ask at any event I run is that guys wear a shirt of some sort. Tank tops are fine with me too (that is if you want to look g<font color="red"></font>ay)

Now Pimp, I know where you are coming from as it is common sense, but the stance you are taking is wrong moraly.

Who are you to judge others priorities? Here is the fact. There is no collared shirt rule.



Its called common scence and morals and if they dont have commen scence or morals im not sure I want to be associating with them anyway. And for that matter im not sure if they are even good for the sport.

Secondly there may not be a collared shirt rule but there certainly is a rule that prevents ripped and tattered or torn clothing from being worn during events and if these people are as he says they are then the wont be able to meet that standard either.

I mean do you think that people should pay to play tournaments when they cant even afford clothing or rent???

I feel even the broke Diqs should have an equal oportunity to compete with anyone in their comparable playing ability broke or not. I say if we get some poor dude from the ghetto and he has a chance at taking everyone to the pin, provide that fool with a shirt and don't close the door on ANYONE whether they cant afford rent/shirt/food or any other reason that is none of anyones business.

United Disc Golf is in the making people. :D

I now possess a tie-dyed collared shirt. It was the player pack for the Tahoe tourney. I am very happy.

Expect to see it in Flag and again at Rock Hill. :)

What a hippie! :D

I now possess a tie-dyed collared shirt. It was the player pack for the Tahoe tourney. I am very happy.

Expect to see it in Flag and again at Rock Hill. :)



Cool !!!!!! My Fly Died Collard shirt is from Equinox Disc Golf.
Yes , it is embroirded !!!!!! :cool:

Now Pimp, I know where you are coming from as it is common sense, but the stance you are taking is wrong moraly.



How is it moraly wrong. If you can afford to play you shouldnt be playing. There is a TON of wasted talent running around this united states because they cant afford to the equipment or fees to join a club or a team but thats just the way things are. If you cant afford it you shouldnt be doing it. Thats the way I feel about it. Everyone thinks that we should fix everyones problems and cater to the less fortunate. If we consider to do this then the less fortunate will continue to exist. If people who are that poor really wanted to play tournaments bad enough they would save money for nice clothes and get an extra job to pay for the tournaments. We should just GIVE them a nice shirt to wear because they cant afford one themselves. That just perpetuates the cycle doesnt it???

I work 55 hours a week and drive 40 minutes to and from work everyday and I buy my collared shirts and nice shirts to wear for tournaments. I bust my a <font color="orange">s </font>s during the week so I can afford to play tournaments on the weekends and I think it would be complete crap if the PDGA just gave people clothes to wear because they cant afford it. Maybe they should get their priorities right before they think about playing tournaments.

So basically your telling me if I was making rules I could tally up all kinds of bogus rules just to make you buy more crap to participate in an event?

Same applies to Fire protection. It is a scam. New codes are revised to one, increase safety LOL
two, to make a butt load of money from upgrading existing systems to get them current with code.

Now lets look into fall protection. If I design a new tool for safety all of the codes are modified to include this new device and all the companies have to go out and buy this just to be within code or pay a hefty fine to OSHA.

I dont want to see this kind of mind set take over disc golf to. I dont want the PDGA to treat this like a money making scam that is only focused on revenue.

So basically your telling me if I was making rules I could tally up all kinds of bogus rules just to make you buy more crap to participate in an event?

Same applies to Fire protection. It is a scam. New codes are revised to one, increase safety LOL
two, to make a butt load of money from upgrading existing systems to get them current with code.

Now lets look into fall protection. If I design a new tool for safety all of the codes are modified to include this new device and all the companies have to go out and buy this just to be within code or pay a hefty fine to OSHA.

I dont want to see this kind of mind set take over disc golf to. I dont want the PDGA to treat this like a money making scam that is only focused on revenue.



Its not. If you cant afford a collared shirt then you shouldnt be playing disc golf in the first place. If you can afford a collared or in this case a NICE non collared shirt then you shouldnt be spending money on entry fees in the first place. I cant believe that you disagree with me on this one. Are you saying that if It was between buying one of your daughters new shoes because hers had holes in them or playing in a disc golf tournament you would play in the tournament??? If you have other neccesities that you cant pay for you shouldnt be playing in tournaments anyway. Everyone in the PDGA can afford 1 collared shirt thats worth 40 bucks because thats how much they paid to get into the PDGA in the first place. Plus you can go to any local thrift store and pick up 4 nice collared shirts for about 10 bucks. If you cant afford that then you shouldnt be spending your money on disc golf tournaments.

YOU CANNOT PRIORITIZE OTHERS FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES. Its that simple. Yeah there is a "you should do this and that" but when it comes down to it we are a family of golfers and should not turn our backs cause some one comes up short of a few tangible items that the Rules state you should have. Regardless of stiutation, priorities and what not. Its just a racket.

I know we would pull together and make it happen in reality but it should not be an issue in the first place. If I want to mark my disc with a silver dollar, that is my thing. I should not have to go buy a PDGA approved marker for this. See where I am getting at? Let the unfortunate get their hands on this to. I believe this is where the game came from in the first place. Gotta love those broke hippies playing with lids! :D

YOU CANNOT PRIORITIZE OTHERS FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES. Its that simple. Yeah there is a "you should do this and that" but when it comes down to it we are a family of golfers and should not turn our backs cause some one comes up short of a few tangible items that the Rules state you should have. Regardless of stiutation, priorities and what not. Its just a racket.

I know we would pull together and make it happen in reality but it should not be an issue in the first place. If I want to mark my disc with a silver dollar, that is my thing. I should not have to go buy a PDGA approved marker for this. See where I am getting at? Let the unfortunate get their hands on this to. I believe this is where the game came from in the first place. Gotta love those broke hippies playing with lids!



Why dont YOU pay for these peoples collared shirts then. Why should the PDGA use the hard earned money that I WORKED MY ACE off for (and paid them for a membership) to buy a collared shirt for someone who either doesnt have a job or doesnt work hard enough to afford one for themself??? Thats complete crap. Plus you get a FREE mini when you join the PDGA anyway so you dont have to buy one.

If your so hell# bent on getting all these guys collared shirts why dont you have a drive or spend your hard earned money and buy a 100 collared shirts at salvation army and send them to the guys who cant afford them cuz I sure as heck dont want my hard earned money to be spent on buying a collared shirt for someone who shouldnt be playing the sport in the first place.

Pimp, your really going the wrong direction with this. I'm not hell bent on putting people in collared shirts. I am hell bent on giving everyone equal opportunity to play this game that has the devotion. Its all going back to we are one big family. If the shirts were provided then I dont think you would be crying about the money spent. Where you complaining cause you recieved a mini that the PDGA spent your hard earned money on when you had 2,500 already?

Pimp, your really going the wrong direction with this. I'm not hell bent on putting people in collared shirts. I am hell bent on giving everyone equal opportunity to play this game that has the devotion. Its all going back to we are one big family. If the shirts were provided then I dont think you would be crying about the money spent. Where you compaining cause you recieved a mini that the PDGA spent your hard earned money on when you had 2,500 already?



If they have the devotion then they would get a job or work more so that they could afford the clothes they need to play in tournaments. If they can afford and entry fee and a membership why cant they spend their rent money and clothes money on a collared shirt. OMG clothes money on a collared shirt. What a novel idea.

This is an organization and not a family. Im sure as heck not going to buy someone who shouldnt be playing in the first place a nice shirt so that they can play. Thats like giving a crack addict crack when you know darn well they need to stop doing crack and change their ways. It just perpetuates the system. I cant go to worlds because I have a job and dont have the money. Do you think someone should come work for me and pay for my trip so that I can go because I dont have the money. I mean I have a shot at WINNING worlds dont you think someone should work for me and pay for my trip because I cant afford it???

So your stance does not change for the Handicapped? :o

What do the handicapped have to do with this???

You cannot stereotype everyones financial positon and chalk it up to being a crackhead or "You should not be here anyway". Think outside the box. YOU CANNOT PRIORITIZE OTHERS FINANCIAL RESPOSIBILITIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You starting to see where I am coming from now?

You cannot stereotype everyones financial positon and chalk it up to being a crackhead or "You should not be here anyway". Think outside the box. YOU CANNOT PRIORITIZE OTHERS FINANCIAL RESPOSIBILITIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You starting to see where I am coming from now?



Nope. Handicapped and others on not in the same situation as the people that I am speaking of. They physically cant make money for themselves for one reason or another which is why they may be poor or whatever but even handicapped people can make money and have enough to pay entry fees and buy collared shirts and the like. Plus if someone was so handicapped that they couldnt work or make money then dont you think that handicapp would also prevent them from playing disc golf??? I dont think I have ever met anyone who was too handicapped to work but they could still play disc golf tournaments. Have you???

YES I HAVE!

What handicap kept them from working but let them play disc golf tournaments???

Pimp,

Don't let gunion work you like this. He isn't at all interested in discussing anything. That much is obvious. He just wants to yank your chain and watch you react. Some people consider that a sport.

Im not getting worked. Im just discussing something and would like to hear some valid answers. Im just sitting at work doing nothing so this is passing my time. Im not upset or making attacks I would just like to know why he thinks that his point of view is valid. Everyone on here knows and sees that my point is valid I just like watching him real and backpeddle and try to see if he can climb out of the whole he has dug himself into.

Brain Damage, brittel bone disease, would you like me to keep going?

Rhett, If you cant see that I am trying to get him not to stereotype all situations and think openly about all golfers then please go cry in another thread about my intentions.

Im not getting worked. Im just discussing something and would like to hear some valid answers. Im just sitting at work doing nothing so this is passing my time. Im not upset or making attacks I would just like to know why he thinks that his point of view is valid. Everyone on here knows and sees that my point is valid I just like watching him real and backpeddle and try to see if he can climb out of the whole he has dug himself into.



I have not dug myself into a rut. I am trying to get you out of the rut and support all disc golfers regardless of financial postition.

Brain Damage, brittel bone disease, would you like me to keep going?



So your telling me these people cant work because of their disabilities but they can play tournament disc golf. Sorry but I find that hard to believe. By the way we have a person with brain damage that works at the car dealership that I work for an he has 2 jobs.

How can these people be competent and strong enough to play disc golf but on the other hand they cant work???

You are king of STEREOTYPING. I degress from this hypothetical topic as they can only relate to situations in Pimps reality because their is no other situations as Pimp knows all. WTF?

Lets see,

I have and Ace Club collared shirt

I have at least 5 tournament collared shirts (including one I got from MaceMan with my name and PDGA number on it from the Big Show payout)

I usually wear Mr. Jim's collared shirts for tournaments. (I mean I am a sponsored players and all :D)

You know where I got my very 1st collared shirt for a Cicular Skies tour when it went with that requirement? I got one from HOT for FREE if I wore it in the tournament. (Thanks Billy)

If anyone wants a Mr. Jim's Collared shirt for Texas tournaments (boy they are sure hot in this Texas summer) just email me and we can work something out :D

If you can't affored or have a collared shirt for an A/NT/Worlds
event, maybe you you should not be going!!!!!!!! (it cost me over $1000 to go to the 1998 Am worlds just to get 30th place)

. Im just sitting at work doing nothing so this is passing my time. .



First off let me start by saying this...I thought you worked your asss off at work? Second, I am handicapped. 9 back surgeries and extensive brain damage prohibit me from being a successful member of the work force. I don't have the funds to run out and buy a collared shirt because someone "thinks" that it looks better. I have the funds to pick up a piece of plastic and go to a state park and entertain myself however. I am unable to even finish events that are two days long because of my handicapp which leaves me with a second day score card of dnf. Is that fair? Nope. Not one little bit. I am flabergasted that you can sit there at your job that you "work your asss off at" and spew all kinds of non-sense about how if you don't have the money to buy a shirt then you can't play. Can we get out of high school now? I am sure that if I lived in my mommy's basement and had no rent,utilities, ect to pay for then I would be able to go and afford all kinds of collared shirts. When you have lived in the real world and pay bills and know what it is like to eat top ramen everyday because you are so broke then come back and put your 2 cents in to this debate. As for now, your 2 cents isn't even worth 2 cents, as a matter of fact, you now owe me a dollar for waisting my time reading your non-sense.

Da Norm,

I'm sorry about your decision to not be a part of the work force. I've worked in the disability field for most of my career (going on 30 years) and I'd think that a visit to vocational rehabilitation might be of benefit. I've worked with folks that are high level (c2,3) quadriplegics, double upper extremity amputees, or visually impaired and developed adaptive equipment systems for them that have allowed them to do jobs as diverse as accounting and building plan review. I'm sure there is a solution out there for your particular need.

As far as anyone forcing you to buy a collared shirt in order for you to play in a tournament, it ain't gonna happen. Read my earlier post, and the several posts that quoted that post. THE DRESS CODE DOES NOT REQUIRE COLLARED SHIRTS. And since you are not a member of the PDGA, you won't be registering or playing in any NT or Major tournaments, therefore, the dress code is a moot point.

You've obviously determined that your physical disability impedes your ability to play two day tournaments. The best answer for you is to seek out one-day events, which are most always B or C tier, and thus don't require ANY dress code.

I've got paraplegic friends that play disc golf from wheelchairs and amputee friends that play on one or two prosthesis. They don't throw 400, shoot 5 under, or even play an entire 9 or 18 holes at a stretch. But they have a great time, and not once have I heard one of them complain about not being able to compete at a higher level because of their impairments.

You may notice that I don't use the word "handicap" or "handicapped." That is because an impairment (the condition) causes the disability (inability to complete a task or function of living). Only the individual creates the handicap.

Best wishes.

Don't mistake the movement which questioned corporate imperialism, along with the myopic consumerism and environmental degradation it fosters, with the mass popular movement which piggy-backed upon it and was populated by a bunch of conformists getting high and talking the talk in order to be part of the 'in-crowd.' That may be what got the most attention, but it was a sideshow.



Good point robj. Frank Zappa said in 1967 about the sideshow:

I'm hippie and I'm trippie
I'm a Gypsy on my own
I'll go to Frisco, stay a week, and take a bus back home.
I'm really just a phoney but forgive me cause I'm stoned

Every town must have a place where phoney hippies meet
Psychedelic dungeons popping up on every street
Gooo toooo Saaan Fraaan cisco
Hey my hair's getting good in the back!!!

I'll go to Frisco, buy a wig and sleep on Owsley's floor.
Walked past the wig store danced at the Philmore
I'll stay a week and get the crabs and take a bus back home,
I'm really just a phoney but forgive me 'cause I'm stoned.
Goooo toooo Saaan Francisco

First I'll buy some beads,
and a leather band to go around my head,
some feathers and bells
and a book of Indian lore
I will wander around barefoot
I will have a psychedelic gleam in my eye at all times
and I'll smoke an aweful lot of dope
I'll ask the chamber of commerce how to get to Haight st
And I will love everyone
I will love the police as they kick the shite out of me on the street.
I'll go to a house where there's a rock and roll band
cause the groups all live together.
and I'll stay with them and get the crabs but I won't care."

Da Norm,

I'm sorry about your decision to not be a part of the work force. I've worked in the disability field for most of my career (going on 30 years) and I'd think that a visit to vocational rehabilitation might be of benefit. I've worked with folks that are high level (c2,3) quadriplegics, double upper extremity amputees, or visually impaired and developed adaptive equipment systems for them that have allowed them to do jobs as diverse as accounting and building plan review. I'm sure there is a solution out there for your particular need.

As far as anyone forcing you to buy a collared shirt in order for you to play in a tournament, it ain't gonna happen. Read my earlier post, and the several posts that quoted that post. THE DRESS CODE DOES NOT REQUIRE COLLARED SHIRTS. And since you are not a member of the PDGA, you won't be registering or playing in any NT or Major tournaments, therefore, the dress code is a moot point.

You've obviously determined that your physical disability impedes your ability to play two day tournaments. The best answer for you is to seek out one-day events, which are most always B or C tier, and thus don't require ANY dress code.

I've got paraplegic friends that play disc golf from wheelchairs and amputee friends that play on one or two prosthesis. They don't throw 400, shoot 5 under, or even play an entire 9 or 18 holes at a stretch. But they have a great time, and not once have I heard one of them complain about not being able to compete at a higher level because of their impairments.

You may notice that I don't use the word "handicap" or "handicapped." That is because an impairment (the condition) causes the disability (inability to complete a task or function of living). Only the individual creates the handicap.

Best wishes.



Thank you for your post, however, I disagree with you on many of your points. The main one is "my decision to not be apart of the work force". That is beautiful. It almost sounds like I had a choice about the circumstances regarding my physical limitations. I certainly am not complaining about not being able to play in two day events, I sign up for them from time to time to enjoy myself with others that share the same sport that I do. My entire point is not "poor me, I am physically disabled feel sorry for me", FAR from it. I was picking apart Pimp's illogical statement of, if you are handicapped enough to not work then how are you able to play disc golf. The problem with vocational rehabilitators, they cost quite a lot of money and I am sure I don't have to go into the costs of medication, doc visits, diagnostic testing ect that goes along with the regular bills of daily living to someone with your extensive knowledge in this background. The part of your post that claims that I obviously determined my physical disability impedes two day play, no, you have that wrong sir. I have come to LIVE with what someone else's bad decision determined my length of tourney play will be along with many other things. It's all about acceptance and pimp not wanting to accept people who are not financially well off in disc golf is absurd. Again, thank you for your post. Kind regards.

I mean do you think that people should pay to play tournaments when they cant even afford clothing or rent???



If someone is that big of a bum, then they have bigger problems than playing in disc golf tournaments.


I know alot of Disc Golfers who are Poor.
They can't even buy new shoes. Duck tape and all.
They are lucky to wear a tee shirt with holes in it.
They may even spend their rent money to play in tournaments.
Their plastic is 5 years old or more , beat up at best.
So , If i understand this thread , these type of people , should not play in tournaments , which require a collard shirt ?
They probably do not own one , or even , ever worn one.
Some even , bumm cigaretts all the time !!!!!!!



No, these sort of low-lifes should not be playing disc golf. If they are spending their rent money on tournaments and having to "bumm cigaretts" they are probably one step away from being supported by my tax dollars.

There is no collared shirt requirement. The PDGA's goal is to have players look decent and you can look decent without a collared shirt for Christ's sake. It's a little tragic when people call a sleeveless shirt a 'wifebeater' (implying low income males are more likely to beat their wives) and then men wearing collared shirts go home and beat their wives. What a bunch of classist nonsense that is. There is as much 'trash' in a wealthy subdivision as there is in any trailer park -- but you wouldn't know it by the tendency people have to be blinded by their classist stereotypical thinking.

Our society is riddled with classism and those who want us to emulate the dress codes of tennis or ball golf are going to exclude a whole lot of potential players and disc golf merchandise purchasers. If I were Discraft or Innova or Gateway I would not sponsor anyone who spouts off on how those who live in or near poverty shouldn't play in disc golf competitions.

We can all agree people should shower, conduct themselves respectfully, and dress in clothes that are not ragged or offensive. The best players are sponsored and wear the attire that their sponsors approve of so you collared-shirt proponents should lobby the sponsors with your collared-shirt worship. If a few players want to compete at Pro Worlds or the USDGC in a clean t-shirt instead of a polo shirt leave them the H alone and dress however you see fit. As for AM Worlds -- come on. It's amateurs. If the pros aren't on TV, requiring AM.s to wear collared shirts only gives people and sponsors a mistaken impression of who the typical disc golf enthusiast is.

I won't assume you are a snobbish rich boy who has lived a sheltered life when i see you in a collar, if you'll approach those you find wearing clean non-collared shirts with an equally open mind.

judge players by the content of their character and not by the price tags on their clothing

Whether disc golfers in tournaments like it or not, they are not only representing themselves. They are, in fact, representing the entire sport of disc golf. Being well dressed in neat, clean clothes is important. Not only does it encourage other players to take you seriously, it encourages those not familiar with disc golf to take you seriously. Whether disc golfers in tournaments like it or not, they are not only representing themselves. They are, in fact, representing the entire sport of disc golf. Being well dressed in neat, clean clothes is important. Not only does it encourage other players to take you seriously, it encourages those not familiar with disc golf to take you seriously.

Look at it this way, when non-players come out to watch a tournament at their local disc golf course, would they be more willing to attempt the game if they see the players dressed like well-mannered members of society? Or would they still be interested in the game if they saw the players wearing dirty t-shirts and pants that are worn so low their choice in boxers can be seen much like some of these fashions that have infested our shopping malls and public schools?

I think the dress code during tournaments should be quite strict and very clear. Collared shirts tucked in, either khaki pants or khaki shorts should be required and an all around well groomed appearance will be mandatory. This would not only make the player look better, it would make the entire disc golf community look better.

Thanks for the Zappa lyrics chicken-wing man. :D

I still stand by my statement that magazine and television clothing advertisements clearly demonstrate that if one dresses in sharp-looking clothes success is immanent and cannot be denied :D

on that note, the collared shirt proponents should ponder these Zappa lyrics:

I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed and deranged
I have existed for years
But very little has changed

I'm the tool of the government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
and regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say

I'm the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I'm the slime oozin' out
from your TV set

You will obey me while I lead you
and eat* the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't go for help -- noone will heed you

Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

"that's right folks, don't touch that dial"

I am the slime on your video
Cruising along on your living room floors
I am the slime on your video
can't stop the slime people look at me go

"In the Slime" (Frank Zappa)
- - - -

* or wear /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Whether disc golfers in tournaments like it or not, they are not only representing themselves. They are, in fact, representing the entire sport of disc golf. Being well dressed in neat, clean clothes is important. Not only does it encourage other players to take you seriously, it encourages those not familiar with disc golf to take you seriously.

Look at it this way, when non-players come out to watch a tournament at their local disc golf course, would they be more willing to attempt the game if they see the players dressed like well-mannered members of society? Or would they still be interested in the game if they saw the players wearing dirty t-shirts and pants that are worn so low their choice in boxers can be seen much like some of these fashions that have infested our shopping malls and public schools?

I think the dress code during tournaments should be quite strict and very clear. Collared shirts tucked in, either khaki pants or khaki shorts and an all around well groomed appearance. This would not only make the player look better, it would make the entire disc golf community look better.



As disc golfers, do we really want our "Professionals" at tournaments looking like they just stepped out of their double wide, or would we rather have them look like a respectable member of society?

I don't think tucking in is necessary unless your shirt hangs lower than your butt. I do know that I don't tuck in. I do wear collars, & I do dress properly.

As for double wides, I know people who live in "double wides" that dress a hell of alot better than some people I know who live in HUGE single family homes!

I just received in the mail my collared shirt from REI. The one Marshaief said to get. I havent tried it outdoors on a hot day yet but it feels like I'm naked when i wear it. weighs about 0.000001 ounces.

cool

First off let me start by saying this...I thought you worked your asss off at work? Second, I am handicapped. 9 back surgeries and extensive brain damage prohibit me from being a successful member of the work force. I don't have the funds to run out and buy a collared shirt because someone "thinks" that it looks better. I have the funds to pick up a piece of plastic and go to a state park and entertain myself however. I am unable to even finish events that are two days long because of my handicapp which leaves me with a second day score card of dnf. Is that fair? Nope. Not one little bit. I am flabergasted that you can sit there at your job that you "work your asss off at" and spew all kinds of non-sense about how if you don't have the money to buy a shirt then you can't play. Can we get out of high school now? I am sure that if I lived in my mommy's basement and had no rent,utilities, ect to pay for then I would be able to go and afford all kinds of collared shirts. When you have lived in the real world and pay bills and know what it is like to eat top ramen everyday because you are so broke then come back and put your 2 cents in to this debate. As for now, your 2 cents isn't even worth 2 cents, as a matter of fact, you now owe me a dollar for waisting my time reading your non-sense.



So your telling me that you eat ramen noodles everyday but then you go out and buy discs and pay entry fees??? That makes absolutely no scence. You can afford to buy plastic but you cant afford to go to salvation army and buy a collared shirt for 2 dollars??? That doesnt make any scence either. Im sorry your handicapped but if you can afford to buy discs and pay to get into parks and pay entry fees and be a member of the PDGA then you sure as heck can afford to buy a decent shirt to wear to the events. Look pal. Dont act like you know me or know where I live or what I do or what bills I do and dont pay because you dont have a freakin clue. I pay all my own **** bills. Health insurance, car payment, car insurance, cell phone bill, gas, rent, doctors visits and the whole lot so dont talk to me about not knowing about having bills. Ive been working 55 hours a week for the past 3 years and yes I have down time at work that allows me to post but that doesnt mean that I dont work my [I'm a potty-mouth!] off. Im freakin here 55 hours a week and on top of that I have about 7 hours of drive time to and from work every week. Just because I have never been broke doesnt mean chit. Why would you pay for a 2 day event that you know you cant finish??? Seems like a waste of money to me. Couldnt you be spending that money on more important things??? Like food and rent and what not??? You say you have the money to get into state parks and buy discs but you dont have the money to buy a collared shirt. That is a straight up contradiction. Plus the rules dont even say collared shirt. They say nicely taylored shirt which im sure you have some of. What I was refering to before you every so nicely tore my head off was the tattered and torn clothing look. T shirts with holes in them or no sleeves and shoes that are duct taped together. Im glad you think you know me as well. I guess you were right about one thing though. You did waste your time on here because you just made yourself look like a [I'm a potty-mouth!] buy saying you can afford all this stuff but you cant afford a nice shirt to wear to tournaments.

It just doesnt add up to me. Plus I am not attacking anyone. You started all of that. Man you are mature. Like I said before. Im sorry that you are handicapped and for whatever reason cannot work. ( you seem to be able to type on a computer pretty well ) That is very unfortunate but atleast I dont make assumptions about you when I know nothing at all about you other then the fact that you are from what you say, handicapped to the point where you can no longer work. For that I am sorry. On the other hand I stand by my statements and am not sorry for what I believe. For you to come out and attack without even having a clue as to who I am is just plaing rediculous. I wasnt attacking anyone I was just making statements and then you had to come out and try and make it personal.

I stand buy what I say. If you cant afford the proper clothing to play the sports then you prolly shouldnt be playing it in the first place. Sorry this offended you but its my opinion and from the sounds of it you could easily afford the proper attire if you went and bought it from a thrift store like most golfers do.

what good is a collared shirt if you have a beer in one hand and a marijuana cigarette in the other?

what's a marijuana cigarette?

Our society is riddled with classism and those who want us to emulate the dress codes of tennis or ball golf are going to exclude a whole lot of potential players and disc golf merchandise purchasers. If I were Discraft or Innova or Gateway I would not sponsor anyone who spouts off on how those who live in or near poverty shouldn't play in disc golf competitions. <font color="orange"> All I am saying is if you cant afford the proper attire to play the sport then you prolly shouldnt be playing it in the first place. Thats all I am saying. You guys act like im trying to exclude people from this sport. Im not. All I am saying is if you cant afford the proper attire to play the sport in competition then maybe you shouldnt be playin competitions in the first place. It sucks that there are people out there that cant afford it, but if you cant afford it you cant afford it. Its as simple as that. I totalled my truck this year. MY FAULT. Its cost me over 13 Grand to buy a new truck which left me with a tight tight tight budget. 500 dollar car payment a month will do that to you. So I had to cut back on the tournaments that I played and I have to skip worlds this year and I had to skip a few A Tiers earlier in the year that I wanted to attend. I did all of this because I COUDLNT AFFORD IT!!! I didnt use my car payment money or my cell phone bill money or my rent and food money to go to those tournaments. I just didnt play them because I couldnt afford to. Thats all im trying to say. If you cant afford to buy the proper attire and equipment then you prolly shouldnt be playing in the first place.</font>

We can all agree people should shower, conduct themselves respectfully, and dress in clothes that are not ragged or offensive. The best players are sponsored and wear the attire that their sponsors approve of so you collared-shirt proponents should lobby the sponsors with your collared-shirt worship. If a few players want to compete at Pro Worlds or the USDGC in a clean t-shirt instead of a polo shirt leave them the H alone and dress however you see fit. As for AM Worlds -- come on. It's amateurs. If the pros aren't on TV, requiring AM.s to wear collared shirts only gives people and sponsors a mistaken impression of who the typical disc golf enthusiast is. <font color="orange"> I disagree. It shouldnt matter what the typical enthusiast is. We should look proffesional at all times when playing. If the PDGA deems that to be a collared shirt then thats what it is. Right now they just say a nicely taylored shirt with atleast halfsleeves. So thats what proffesional is at the time. If you cant afford that you shouldnt be traveling to and playing in SuperTours or NTs or majors anyway. </font>

I won't assume you are a snobbish rich boy who has lived a sheltered life when i see you in a collar, if you'll approach those you find wearing clean non-collared shirts with an equally open mind. <font color="orange"> I just said if you cant afford to buy the proper attire to play in an event then you shouldnt be playin in it anyway. I have no problem with people wearing nice looking non collared shirts to tournaments. I do on the other hand think they should be wearing something a step above a cotton T-Shirt though. </font>

judge players by the content of their character and not by the price tags on their clothing <font color="orange"> I never said I was judging anyone buy their clothes. All I said was if they cant afford the proper ones then they prolly shouldnt be playin in events that require a dress code in the first place. You guys are blowing this way out of proportion and attacking me and trying to turn what Im saying into something that its not. I dont want to exclude anyone from playing disc golf I just think that if you cant afford to look decent and presentable on the course then you shouldnt be playing in the first place. </font>




I thank you for not assuming anything about me but I would like it very much if people didnt come on here and attack me and try to twist what Im saying into something its not.

Cant we just discuss something without someone attacking someone else for their opinion???

So danorm is handicapped, and all this time I just thought he was another version of UPM.

Golf in the nude, it makes for a more even tan; just don't do it at a tournament. :D

So danorm is handicapped, and all this time I just thought he was another version of UPM.

Golf in the nude, it makes for a more even tan; just don't do it at a tournament.



He also proclaims himself a Full Time Slacker in his personal info on here :eek:

Steve I Didn't know you hated the handicaped? :o:o:)

Steve I Didn't know you hated the handicaped? :o:o:)



Oh boy. Here we go. Now someone is going to think that I hate the handicapped which isnt true. Thanks alot Nash. :mad:

Hater. :D

Steve I Didn't know you hated the handicaped? :o:o:)



Oh boy. Here we go. Now someone is going to think that I hate the handicapped which isnt true. Thanks alot Nash. :mad:


I know you don't hate the handicapped but some people on this thread sure make it look like you do.:eek:

No one can make him look anyway, he does that on his own. Now, why is it that we are one big happy family yet we can frown upon "certain individuals" from participating at events. Notice how this is not stereotyped to my life but covers the broad range of situations no matter what the case is? Pimp, get your pen and paper out.

First off let me start by saying this...I thought you worked your asss off at work? Second, I am handicapped. 9 back surgeries and extensive brain damage prohibit me from being a successful member of the work force. I don't have the funds to run out and buy a collared shirt because someone "thinks" that it looks better. I have the funds to pick up a piece of plastic and go to a state park and entertain myself however. I am unable to even finish events that are two days long because of my handicapp which leaves me with a second day score card of dnf. Is that fair? Nope. Not one little bit. I am flabergasted that you can sit there at your job that you "work your asss off at" and spew all kinds of non-sense about how if you don't have the money to buy a shirt then you can't play. Can we get out of high school now? I am sure that if I lived in my mommy's basement and had no rent,utilities, ect to pay for then I would be able to go and afford all kinds of collared shirts. When you have lived in the real world and pay bills and know what it is like to eat top ramen everyday because you are so broke then come back and put your 2 cents in to this debate. As for now, your 2 cents isn't even worth 2 cents, as a matter of fact, you now owe me a dollar for waisting my time reading your non-sense.



So your telling me that you eat ramen noodles everyday but then you go out and buy discs and pay entry fees??? That makes absolutely no scence. You can afford to buy plastic but you cant afford to go to salvation army and buy a collared shirt for 2 dollars??? That doesnt make any scence either. Im sorry your handicapped but if you can afford to buy discs and pay to get into parks and pay entry fees and be a member of the PDGA then you sure as heck can afford to buy a decent shirt to wear to the events. Look pal. Dont act like you know me or know where I live or what I do or what bills I do and dont pay because you dont have a freakin clue. I pay all my own **** bills. Health insurance, car payment, car insurance, cell phone bill, gas, rent, doctors visits and the whole lot so dont talk to me about not knowing about having bills. Ive been working 55 hours a week for the past 3 years and yes I have down time at work that allows me to post but that doesnt mean that I dont work my [I'm a potty-mouth!] off. Im freakin here 55 hours a week and on top of that I have about 7 hours of drive time to and from work every week. Just because I have never been broke doesnt mean chit. Why would you pay for a 2 day event that you know you cant finish??? Seems like a waste of money to me. Couldnt you be spending that money on more important things??? Like food and rent and what not??? You say you have the money to get into state parks and buy discs but you dont have the money to buy a collared shirt. That is a straight up contradiction. Plus the rules dont even say collared shirt. They say nicely taylored shirt which im sure you have some of. What I was refering to before you every so nicely tore my head off was the tattered and torn clothing look. T shirts with holes in them or no sleeves and shoes that are duct taped together. Im glad you think you know me as well. I guess you were right about one thing though. You did waste your time on here because you just made yourself look like a [I'm a potty-mouth!] buy saying you can afford all this stuff but you cant afford a nice shirt to wear to tournaments.

It just doesnt add up to me. Plus I am not attacking anyone. You started all of that. Man you are mature. Like I said before. Im sorry that you are handicapped and for whatever reason cannot work. ( you seem to be able to type on a computer pretty well ) That is very unfortunate but atleast I dont make assumptions about you when I know nothing at all about you other then the fact that you are from what you say, handicapped to the point where you can no longer work. For that I am sorry. On the other hand I stand by my statements and am not sorry for what I believe. For you to come out and attack without even having a clue as to who I am is just plaing rediculous. I wasnt attacking anyone I was just making statements and then you had to come out and try and make it personal.

I stand buy what I say. If you cant afford the proper clothing to play the sports then you prolly shouldnt be playing it in the first place. Sorry this offended you but its my opinion and from the sounds of it you could easily afford the proper attire if you went and bought it from a thrift store like most golfers do.



Ohhh, I got paled! :o:D:p apparently I hit a nerve with that little "living in mommy's basement" comment. :oROFLMAO :DI'm not telling you that I eat ramen noodles everyday, but there was a time in my life when I was in college when I did. I . I sign up for two day events to support certain td's and their events. Again as you think this is a waste of money, I feel it's extremely important to support those that are worth supporting. I am attacking you because you are talking about something you know nothing about. If I went to a course and started to play with someone that had holes in his shirt and the "poor" look (I have seen jeans for sale with holes in them and they cost more than the ones without) I wouldn't start to think that he shouldn't be there, I am not that arrogant. I am sorry you have a problem with people who want to dress comfortably in clothes they choose, not someone else's idea of what dressing "nicely" looks like. This is not an elitist sport like polo, this is a sport for people who don't have a lot of money. Thats the point. I don't pay to play in the parks where I live. Btw, people can sometimes feel like they are being attacked when they are criticized for the clothes that they wear and can or can not afford. It isn't a matter of affording the collared shirt or a tailored shirt to me, it's a matter of who you think you are to determine what looks decent and what doesn't and who should and should not be playing according to financial standing in society. If you got game, it shouldn't matter what you look like. Having to struggle in the early part of ones life, or to you, being broke, gives you a certain appreciation of things and a different outlook. It teaches you amazing quality's of self reliance. Your comment of saying your sorry that I am handicapped and then to follow it up with a snide and snotty comment of "you seem to type on a computer pretty well" shows your level of immaturity, insensitivity, and your over-all appearance of living a shelter life in a white collar neighborhood. It's a shame you are so out of touch with what the majority of disc golfers are, broke, raudy, nomadic misgrients that travel from course to course with plastic! :D

. Now, why is it that we are one big happy family yet Maybe its because some of us would rather not join and would rather ride the train for free like HOBOs :D

No one can make him look anyway, he does that on his own. Now, why is it that we are one big happy family yet we can frown upon "certain individuals" from participating at events. Notice how this is not stereotyped to my life but covers the broad range of situations no matter what the case is? Pimp, get your pen and paper out.


Maybe we're not one big happy family, I personaly don't like by drunk uncle but he's family.

I voluteer my technical skills which is tallying up alot more than $40 dollars so I think you need to cut me a check ya HOBO. Good lord, shave that beard already and do something with that hair you freaking hippie! And you call me a HOBO. I think you need to post in this thread more cause I think pimp is adressing your type being at collared events. :D

I don't think tucking in is necessary unless your shirt hangs lower than your butt. I do know that I don't tuck in. I do wear collars, & I do dress properly.

As for double wides, I know people who live in "double wides" that dress a hell of alot better than some people I know who live in HUGE single family homes!



All that proves it the fact that some members of the "trailer trash" scene know when it is appropriate to dress in a neat, professional manner.

I am handicapped. 9 back surgeries and extensive brain damage prohibit me from being a successful member of the work force. I don't have the funds to run out and buy a collared shirt because someone "thinks" that it looks better. I have the funds to pick up a piece of plastic and go to a state park and entertain myself however.



Too handicapped (or sorry) to lead a productive life yet not too handicapped to play disc golf. Interesting.

I thought north carolina was just another name for a trailor park :o:D:Dj/k of course. :D

Ohhh, I got paled! apparently I hit a nerve with that little "living in mommy's basement" comment. ROFLMAO I'm not telling you that I eat ramen noodles everyday, but there was a time in my life when I was in college when I did. I also never claimed that I couldn't afford a collared shirt, thats funny and you would get it more if you read the designer labels on my clothes in my closet. I sign up for two day events to support certain td's and their events. Again as you think this is a waste of money, I feel it's extremely important to support those that are worth supporting. I am attacking you because you are talking about something you know nothing about. If I went to a course and started to play with someone that had holes in his shirt and the "poor" look (I have seen jeans for sale with holes in them and they cost more than the ones without) I wouldn't start to think that he shouldn't be there, I am not that arrogant. I am sorry you have a problem with people who want to dress comfortably in clothes they choose, not someone else's idea of what dressing "nicely" looks like. This is not an elitist sport like polo, this is a sport for people who don't have a lot of money. Thats the point. I don't pay to play in the parks where I live. Btw, people can sometimes feel like they are being attacked when they are criticized for the clothes that they wear and can or can not afford. It isn't a matter of affording the collared shirt or a tailored shirt to me, it's a matter of who you think you are to determine what looks decent and what doesn't and who should and should not be playing according to financial standing in society. If you got game, it shouldn't matter what you look like. Having to struggle in the early part of ones life, or to you, being broke, gives you a certain appreciation of things and a different outlook. It teaches you amazing quality's of self reliance. Your comment of saying your sorry that I am handicapped and then to follow it up with a snide and snotty comment of "you seem to type on a computer pretty well" shows your level of immaturity, insensitivity, and your over-all appearance of living a shelter life in a white collar neighborhood. It's a shame you are so out of touch with what the majority of disc golfers are, broke, raudy, nomadic misgrients that travel from course to course with plastic!




All you guys do is ASSUME. I never said that they couldnt play the sport. I just said if they can afford entry fees and discs and a membership then they sure as hell can afford to buy a decent looking shirt to wear to competitions. If they cannot do that then they should not be playing in events that require a dress code. Pure and simple. If you cant afford to play by the rules then you shouldnt be playing. Im not the one who says wearing a collared shirt and nice shorts or pants in acceptable or what looks good. Corporate America said that and if we want this sport to suceed and grow into the mainstream televised supersport that it could be we are going to have to look presentable and proffesional to the people who have the money.

Funny how you are standing up for someone that you are not. When you were in college were you spending your money on disc golf tournaments when all you could afford to eat was ramen??? Your not even the person I was talking about. From what you say you are a rich kid with designer clothes who just likes to slack off and play disc golf. Thats fine you can afford to do that. Grunion is the one who brought up handicapped and poor people not I. I just wrote a responce to what he said and all it said was. If you cant afford to buy decent apparel to wear to disc golf events then you shouldnt be playing in the first place. Whether you are handicapped or just broke or on welfare or unemployed. Its doesnt matter. If you cant afford to play by the rules then you shouldnt be playing. Like I said I had to skip some tournaments this year becaues I have other things that I have to pay for and I couldnt AFFORD to play those tournaments. I couldnt afford it therefore I had no business playing in them. Thats all Im saying. If you can afford apparel that fits the dress code then you shouldnt be playing anyway. The things is ANYONE can afford the apparel that fits the dress code they just use the exspence as a cop out because they dont want to wear a collared shirt. If you can buy a disc which is 8-20 Dollars then you certainly can go to the thrift store and by about 10 collared shirts for 20 bucks. Or 10 regular nice looking non T shirts for 20 dollars. So when these people say they cant afford it they are really just lying because you know they could afford the discs in their bag and a collared shirt at the thrift store can sometimes cost less then a freakin MINI so anyone who says they cant afford it is just copping out because they dont WANT to afford it.

You guys can twist and turn my words and try and make me look like an A HOLE but all the sane people on here know what Im saying and know that im not hating or trying to exclude anyone from the sport. All im saying is if you can afford discs and entry fees you can afford the apparel required to play in those events and if you say you cant your nothing but a lier.

Pure and simple everyone can afford to meet the dress code there are just some who dont want to and they use the exspence issue as a cop out. So if you cant or dont want to afford the apparel to meet the dress code then you shouldnt be playing which is what I have been saying all along.

I do have 1 question though. Why were you trying to defend a group that your not even a part of???

Too handicapped (or sorry) to lead a productive life yet not too handicapped to play disc golf. Interesting.



I take that as quite a complement coming from someone like yourelf. :p BTW, I live a very productive life. :D

Are you going to stereotype as well and say that this can't be possible for anyone in any position?

I believe all of you dont seem to understand that although someone may have the ability to work that does not meen that the feild that is available is not saturated. Oh but it goes further than that, why would a employer higher someone with lets say brittle bone disease and have a liability on their hands? I think it is very easy to sit there with %100 of your health and pretend that their are so many avenues based off of ignorance and just not knowing what it is like to be in this kind of situation.

Why is wearing a collared shirt such a big deal to some people? It makes our sport look better and more legit to outsiders, especially sponsors.

During practice/casual rounds I wear anything from my work uniform, just shorts, jeans/t-shirt, all the way to anti-G.W Bush shirts on the course.

However for a tournament, no matter the sanctioning or tier level, even C-tiers I don the collared shirt. It feels more "professional" and gets me into the competition mode, just like in organized sports, it is like your "uniform" for disc golf.

I just do not understand why people are so against wearing collared shirts.

Pimp, do you see how your stereo typing logic is digging your grave? You cant apply that logic to everyone in every position. I tried to paint a picture for you but you could not understand. Although you never said that exactly but your logic is being applied to all walks of life and I was just trying to show you how wrong moraly you were.

I want you to re-read your words that you posted earlier so you can see how you are MORALY wrong.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BIG pimp wrote

"If they have the devotion then they would get a job or work more so that they could afford the clothes they need to play in tournaments. If they can afford and entry fee and a membership why cant they spend their rent money and clothes money on a collared shirt. OMG clothes money on a collared shirt. What a novel idea.

"This is an organization and not a family. Im sure as heck not going to buy someone who shouldnt be playing in the first place a nice shirt so that they can play. Thats like giving a crack addict crack when you know darn well they need to stop doing crack and change their ways. It just perpetuates the system. I cant go to worlds because I have a job and dont have the money. Do you think someone should come work for me and pay for my trip so that I can go because I dont have the money. I mean I have a shot at WINNING worlds dont you think someone should work for me and pay for my trip because I cant afford it??? "

Pimp, do you see how your stereo typing logic is digging your grave? You cant apply that logic to everyone in every position. I tried to paint a picture for you but you could not understand. Although you never said that exactly but your logic is being applied to all walks of life and I was just trying to show you how wrong moraly you were.



I dont care who plays the sport man. But if you do play then you CAN afford to buy clothes that are withing the limits of the dress code. If you cant or wont do that then you shouldnt be playing anyway. I now see that you could be handicapped to where you cant work in your field but still play disc golf. This however has no bearing on whether or not they can afford to dress within the dress code. If you can afford the entry fee and plastic you can afford apparel that fits the dress code. Saying you CANT is nothing but a lie and a cop out. If you are going to play this sport you better wear clothes that fit the dress code when you are at tournaments that require it. Thats all I have been saying the whole time. I dont care who plays just as long as they dont try and cop out and say oh I cant afford a collared shirt when they have a bag full of plastic and they just paid a 40 dollar entry fee. That is complete BS and you and I both know it.

So Ill say it again. If you going to play the sport you CAN afford to dress within the dress code and if you choose not to or say that you CANT then you are lying and copping out and shouldnt be playing in the first place. If you cant afford a 2 dollar shirt at the thrift store then you certainly cant afford a 40 dollar entry fee or a 20 dollar disc.

Thats all Im saying.

How is that moraly wrong??? Its just pure fact.

Park and Two putt, This is what I wrote but now it is a hypothetical situation regarding your boys morals.


Collared shirts, I wear them all day at work and when I get off, I am in a T-shirt for sure. For tournies, just put the dang thing on. Gotta work professionally and sometimes play professionally, aint nothing wrong with that! ;)

"If they have the devotion then they would get a job or work more so that they could afford the clothes they need to play in tournaments. If they can afford and entry fee and a membership why cant they spend their rent money and clothes money on a collared shirt. OMG clothes money on a collared shirt. What a novel idea.

"This is an organization and not a family. Im sure as heck not going to buy someone who shouldnt be playing in the first place a nice shirt so that they can play. Thats like giving a crack addict crack when you know darn well they need to stop doing crack and change their ways. It just perpetuates the system. I cant go to worlds because I have a job and dont have the money. Do you think someone should come work for me and pay for my trip so that I can go because I dont have the money. I mean I have a shot at WINNING worlds dont you think someone should work for me and pay for my trip because I cant afford it??? "



Thats not moraly wrong. If they can afford discs and entry fees then they **** well can afford a collared shirt from the thrift store. I stand by what I say. If they are devoted enough to the sport then they can spend some of that money on some clothes so that they can fit the dress code. They can spend their money however they want to but if they are buying discs and pay entry fees I dont want to hear this BS about how they cant afford to follow the dress code. Its complete BS and you know it. If you can afford discs and entry fees you can afford to go to the thrift store and buy a couple 2 dollar shirts so that you can fit the dress code. If you say you cant your going nothing but lying and coping out because you dont WANT to fit into the dress code.

Pure and simple if you can afford to play in tournaments you can afford to fit the dress code. No matter if your unemployed or diabled or anything else. Everyone who can afford to play disc golf can afford to fit the dress code. Its as simple as that and if thats a stereotype then so be it but you know that Im right on this one.

PIMP writes,

"So Ill say it again. If you going to play the sport you CAN afford to dress within the dress code and if you choose not to or say that you CANT then you are lying and copping out and shouldnt be playing in the first place. If you cant afford a 2 dollar shirt at the thrift store then you certainly cant afford a 40 dollar entry fee or a 20 dollar disc."

Under this idea the children that are supported by EDGE have no business stepping up to play tournies because the children have no jobs.

So if I donate the entry fee to a disabled person and give them a disc but we are short a shirt, by your standards this low life should not even be participating. And you see nothing wrong with this?

Pimp, do you see how your stereo typing logic is digging your grave? You cant apply that logic to everyone in every position. I tried to paint a picture for you but you could not understand. Although you never said that exactly but your logic is being applied to all walks of life and I was just trying to show you how wrong moraly you were.



I dont care who plays the sport man. But if you do play then you CAN afford to buy clothes that are withing the limits of the dress code. If you cant or wont do that then you shouldnt be playing anyway. I now see that you could be handicapped to where you cant work in your field but still play disc golf. This however has no bearing on whether or not they can afford to dress within the dress code. If you can afford the entry fee and plastic you can afford apparel that fits the dress code. Saying you CANT is nothing but a lie and a cop out. If you are going to play this sport you better wear clothes that fit the dress code when you are at tournaments that require it. Thats all I have been saying the whole time. I dont care who plays just as long as they dont try and cop out and say oh I cant afford a collared shirt when they have a bag full of plastic and they just paid a 40 dollar entry fee. That is complete BS and you and I both know it.

So Ill say it again. If you going to play the sport you CAN afford to dress within the dress code and if you choose not to or say that you CANT then you are lying and copping out and shouldnt be playing in the first place. If you cant afford a 2 dollar shirt at the thrift store then you certainly cant afford a 40 dollar entry fee or a 20 dollar disc.

Thats all Im saying.

How is that moraly wrong??? Its just pure fact.




Question. What happens if the person had all of this stuff, ie. discs,bag,ect. and then their life is changed drastically one day and now their financial concerns have shifted to medical and not collared shirts or other non-essentials but maybe playing disc golf is their only outlet to keeping sane. You keep talking and I keep shaking my head wondering when you will get a clue that not everything in your life is in your control and to demand someone look like what corporate america thinks they should look like while playing a sport that was started by hippies is insane. You obviously don't realize that even though you may have a plan in life and can go along with that plan, there are others out there that will interact with you and kcuf up your other wise normal life where you can afford things like a collared shirt, even if it's from the thrift store. It seems like shirts are rather cheap at your thrift store so why wouldn't the Pdga want to buy them up and put their logo on them and hand them out as part of their players pack. Look there, a shirt that advertises you at your event. Novel idea.

Under this idea the children that are supported by EDGE have no business stepping up to play tournies because the children have no jobs.



Wrong again. They are givin all the neccessary items needed to play the sport. If edge were to sponsor someone in a tournament in which the dress code was in effect you better believe they will be providing that person with the neccessary clothing to participate in the event.

Oh by the way at the 2004 Worlds in Des Moines they WERE handing out free collared shirts that were donated by people for those who didnt have any. IE those who chose not to purchase them because if you can afford to attend a Worlds then you can for sure afford to buy a couple collared shirts.

How is that moraly wrong???

If you can afford to play in the tournament then you can afford to meet the dress code. How am I wrong in saying that??? If you going to play in an event you better have ALL the neccessary equipment and apparel that is required to play in that event or you shouldnt be playing. I dont see how you dont understand that???


So if I donate the entry fee to a disabled person and give them a disc but we are short a shirt, by your standards this low life should not even be participating. And you see nothing wrong with this?



If your going to donate an entry fee and give them a disc why wouldnt you lone them a collared shirt or buy one for them at the thrift store since that is a required Item to play in a certain event???

[QUOTE]
If your going to donate an entry fee and give them a disc why wouldnt you lone them a collared shirt or buy one for them at the thrift store since that is a required Item to play in a certain event???



Because collared shirts are not required :D

Question. What happens if the person had all of this stuff, ie. discs,bag,ect. and then their life is changed drastically one day and now their financial concerns have shifted to medical and not collared shirts or other non-essentials but maybe playing disc golf is their only outlet to keeping sane. You keep talking and I keep shaking my head wondering when you will get a clue that not everything in your life is in your control and to demand someone look like what corporate america thinks they should look like while playing a sport that was started by hippies is insane. You obviously don't realize that even though you may have a plan in life and can go along with that plan, there are others out there that will interact with you and kcuf up your other wise normal life where you can afford things like a collared shirt, even if it's from the thrift store. It seems like shirts are rather cheap at your thrift store so why wouldn't the Pdga want to buy them up and put their logo on them and hand them out as part of their players pack. Look there, a shirt that advertises you at your event. Novel idea.



If they can afford to pay for discs and entry fees why is it they cant afford to buy a shirt at the thrift store??? How do they have money for discs and tournament entry fees but not for the attire required to play in these events. The events that require a dress code usually have entry fees anywhere from 60-100 dollars to enter and if you can afford that then you can afford a collared shirt. I dont understand how you dont understand that. If they can spend money on entry fees and discs why cant they spend a couple more dollars and get the apparel required to play in those events. You only need 1 collared shirt to play tournaments in. 1 would prolly last you well over a year of tournaments as long as you washed it on a regular basis. How can they spend money on tournament after tournament and discs but cant spend the few bucks it would cost to buy a decent shirt at the thrift store???

I mean seriously. I think we have 2 very different Ideas of what the sport should and shouldnt be and where the sport should and shouldnt go which is why we cant agree on this. I come from a ball golf background which is maybe why I expect a little bit more from people in regards to how they look and how they present themselves but im still saying if you can pay the entry fees and buy the discs you can afford 1 shirt to wear while you play those tournaments.

So your stance of giving them a shirt is now here. So your upset that the PDGA gives away collared shirts like I stated thay should if the rule was mandatory.
---------------------------------
CB wrote

"If your so hell# bent on getting all these guys collared shirts why dont you have a drive or spend your hard earned money and buy a 100 collared shirts at salvation army and send them to the guys who cant afford them cuz I sure as heck dont want my hard earned money to be spent on buying a collared shirt for someone who shouldnt be playing the sport in the first place."

ANYONE IN THIS POSITION SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING THIS SPORT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Do you see any stereotyping here? Mmmmmmm

Because collared shirts are not required



Now THAT was funny :D

"I come from a ball golf background "

I think I hear them calling your name

:o

ANYONE IN THIS POSITION SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING THIS SPORT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Do you see any stereotyping here? Mmmmmmm



Bro. If you cant afford something you shouldnt be doing it. How is that stereotyping???

That lead-off hitter on the Boston Red Sox who started inn the all-star game last night sure didn't look professional with that long hair. What's his problem? And what was corporate america thinking in using him to pimp their product(s)? Couldn't they find a clean shaven guy with a crewcut?

I'm looking at a Cincinnati Reds program from a CUBS game I attended here in Cinci this year -- and the uniforms are not collared and they even wear athletic looking V neck sleeveless shirts with red t-shirts underneathe them. :eek:

There is a big difference between the dress of professional athletes and business professionals -- for good reason. If we look like we belong in an office people will think our sport requires little physical prowess.

What is up with the collars -- are they there to distinguish the classes?

becuase some people are not fortunate enough to afford anything. Now if I give them a disc to play, does that mean they should not be playing this sport anywhere ever? NO!!!!!!!!!

Go look up stereotyping please. This is getting tiresom.

"I come from a ball golf background "

I think I hear them calling your name



:D:D

That lead-off hitter on the Boston Red Sox who started inn the all-star game last night sure didn't look professional with that long hair. What's his problem? And what was corporate america thinking in using him to pimp their product(s)? Couldn't they find a clean shaven guy with a crewcut? <font color="orange"> I bet he had a uniform on though didnt he??? We arent talking about personal hygene or shaving or anything like that here. We are talking about apparel and the dress code. </font>

I'm looking at a Cincinnati Reds program from a CUBS game I attended here in Cinci this year -- and the uniforms are not collared and they even wear athletic looking V neck sleeveless shirts with red t-shirts underneathe them. <font color="orange"> And it is required that they were that uniform correct??? They cant just wear anything they want can they??? </font>

There is a big difference between the dress of professional athletes and business professionals -- for good reason. If we look like we belong in an office people will think our sport requires little physical prowess. <font color="orange"> No one said you had to wear a button down and a tie. Although I did wear a button down collared North Face shirt at the Brent Hambrick. All I am saying is look decent and follow the dress code. I dont care if you were a collar or not just follow the code. </font>

What is up with the collars -- are they there to distinguish the classes? <font color="orange"> No one is distinguishing classes by collared or not collared. I am just stating that if you can find a way to get discs and an entry fee to a tournament that requires a dress code you better find a way to meet the dress code as well. I judge people by who they are not what they wear but its doesnt hurt to look nice. </font>

becuase some people are not fortunate enough to afford anything. Now if I give them a disc to play, does that mean they should not be playing this sport anywhere ever? NO!!!!!!!!! <font color="orange"> Your absolutely correct but I never said that they shouldnt EVER be playing the sport anywhere I simply said they shouldnt be playin at tournaments that require a dress code if they cannot adhere to that code. </font>

Go look up stereotyping please. This is getting tiresom.
<font color="orange"> Sorry this is getting tiresome but I cant believe you dont see where I am coming from. </font>

Our society is riddled with classism and those who want us to emulate the dress codes of tennis or ball golf are going to exclude a whole lot of potential players and disc golf merchandise purchasers. If I were Discraft or Innova or Gateway I would not sponsor anyone who spouts off on how those who live in or near poverty shouldn't play in disc golf competitions. <font color="orange"> All I am saying is if you cant afford the proper attire to play the sport then you prolly shouldnt be playing it in the first place. Thats all I am saying. You guys act like im trying to exclude people from this sport. Im not. All I am saying is if you cant afford the proper attire to play the sport in competition then maybe you shouldnt be playin competitions in the first place. It sucks that there are people out there that cant afford it, but if you cant afford it you cant afford it. Its as simple as that. I totalled my truck this year. MY FAULT. Its cost me over 13 Grand to buy a new truck which left me with a tight tight tight budget. 500 dollar car payment a month will do that to you. So I had to cut back on the tournaments that I played and I have to skip worlds this year and I had to skip a few A Tiers earlier in the year that I wanted to attend. I did all of this because I COUDLNT AFFORD IT!!! I didnt use my car payment money or my cell phone bill money or my rent and food money to go to those tournaments. I just didnt play them because I couldnt afford to. Thats all im trying to say. If you cant afford to buy the proper attire and equipment then you prolly shouldnt be playing in the first place.</font>

We can all agree people should shower, conduct themselves respectfully, and dress in clothes that are not ragged or offensive. The best players are sponsored and wear the attire that their sponsors approve of so you collared-shirt proponents should lobby the sponsors with your collared-shirt worship. If a few players want to compete at Pro Worlds or the USDGC in a clean t-shirt instead of a polo shirt leave them the H alone and dress however you see fit. As for AM Worlds -- come on. It's amateurs. If the pros aren't on TV, requiring AM.s to wear collared shirts only gives people and sponsors a mistaken impression of who the typical disc golf enthusiast is. <font color="orange"> I disagree. It shouldnt matter what the typical enthusiast is. We should look proffesional at all times when playing. If the PDGA deems that to be a collared shirt then thats what it is. Right now they just say a nicely taylored shirt with atleast halfsleeves. So thats what proffesional is at the time. If you cant afford that you shouldnt be traveling to and playing in SuperTours or NTs or majors anyway. </font>

I won't assume you are a snobbish rich boy who has lived a sheltered life when i see you in a collar, if you'll approach those you find wearing clean non-collared shirts with an equally open mind. <font color="orange"> I just said if you cant afford to buy the proper attire to play in an event then you shouldnt be playin in it anyway. I have no problem with people wearing nice looking non collared shirts to tournaments. I do on the other hand think they should be wearing something a step above a cotton T-Shirt though. </font>

judge players by the content of their character and not by the price tags on their clothing <font color="orange"> I never said I was judging anyone buy their clothes. All I said was if they cant afford the proper ones then they prolly shouldnt be playin in events that require a dress code in the first place. You guys are blowing this way out of proportion and attacking me and trying to turn what Im saying into something that its not. I dont want to exclude anyone from playing disc golf I just think that if you cant afford to look decent and presentable on the course then you shouldnt be playing in the first place. </font>




<font color="orange"> I thank you for not assuming anything about me but I would like it very much if people didnt come on here and attack me and try to twist what Im saying into something its not.

Cant we just discuss something without someone attacking someone else for their opinion??? </font>



Steve I did not attack you at all. I did attack the notion that our sport is well-served by adopting the classist, exclusive mentality that is apparently still somewhat prevalent in ball golf.

clothes are just there to cover our nakedness. if they are clean and don't have offensive language or symbols -- play on. The majority of our best players who play in top tier events are sponsored and wear the attire given to them by their sponsors. What is worn at AM Worlds only 'impresses' those egos and families who are represented there. If your mentality is a rooted in ball golf, I can see why you'd like everyone in collars, but this is America (LOL) so others should be free to participate too if their clothes are clean regardless of the financial background which got them there.

Steve I did not attack you at all. I did attack the notion that our sport is well-served by adopting the classist, exclusive mentality that is apprently still somewhat prevalent in ball golf.

clothes are just there to cover our nakedness. if they are clean and don't have offensive language or symbols -- play on. The majority of our best players who play in top tier events are sponsored and wear the attire given to them by their sponsors. What is worn at AM Worlds only 'impresses' those egos and families who are represented there. If your mentality is a rooted in ball golf, I can see why you'd like everyone in collars, but this is America (LOL) so others should be free to participate too if their clothes are clean regardless of the financial background which got them there.



As long as it conforms to the dress code I could care less what they wear. All im saying is if they are going to play in an event with a dress code they better have the apparel needed to participate in that event. Thats all I have been saying this whole time. You guys like to twist what I say into other things and try and make me look like the bad guy but in all actually all I have said is if your going to play this sport then you better follow the rules. That includes the dress code. And if you cant abide by the dress code then you shouldnt be playing anyway. Whether its because you cant afford it or dont like it or whatever. If you cant follow the dress code you shouldnt be playing.

Disc golf has many levels of competition and standards. Pick the one that is right for you. If the NT standards are not for you then play in an A Tier or B Tier. Or play in a C or D Tier. Or if they are cramping your style play an X Tier. And if all of them are just too restrictive there should be a mini or monthly somewhere that will fit your needs. If not, then run your own events just the way you like them.

We don't all 100% agree with all of the standards (True Amateur Class, 2 Meter Rules, DROTs, Sandals) but that is not the goal. The goal is to work together and put forward the best standards possible based on our combined knowledge and experience. If you can not find consensus with the rest of us, then run your own events.

We'll do them the way we see best, thank you very much.

is the rdga still around?

There is a big difference between the dress of professional athletes and business professionals -- for good reason. If we look like we belong in an office people will think our sport requires little physical prowess. <font color="orange"> No one said you had to wear a button down and a tie. Although I did wear a button down collared North Face shirt at the Brent Hambrick. All I am saying is look decent and follow the dress code. I dont care if you were a collar or not just follow the code. </font>
<font color="blue"> aren't you back-pedalling from your previous stance that people should wear collars ? If you want you are free to start your own company that appeals to upper-middle class players with lots of discretionary income to spend on high-end clothes and products. You can have them wear button down collars and knickers and dress shoes. Man, your team will look the most 'professional' But the real pros (determined by skilful play) will no doubt kick your nicely dressed team's arses. </font>


What is up with the collars -- are they there to distinguish the classes? <font color="orange"> No one is distinguishing classes by collared or not collared. I am just stating that if you can find a way to get discs and an entry fee to a tournament that requires a dress code you better find a way to meet the dress code as well. I judge people by who they are not what they wear but its doesnt hurt to look nice. </font>


<font color="blue"> you are assuming collars and button downs look nicer. that is part of your socio-economic conditioning which axiomaticly assumes the kid who gets to the tournament in a Mercedes is somehow superior to the kid who walks from his trailer. We all do it. That's our conditioning. Shouldn't we question it? </font>

[/QUOTE]

Disc golf has many levels of competition and standards. Pick the one that is right for you. If the NT standards are not for you then play in an A Tier or B Tier. Or play in a C or D Tier. Or if they are cramping your style play an X Tier. And if all of them are just too restrictive there should be a mini or monthly somewhere that will fit your needs. If not, then run your own events just the way you like them.

We don't all 100% agree with all of the standards (True Amateur Class, 2 Meter Rules, DROTs, Sandals) but that is not the goal. The goal is to work together and put forward the best standards possible based on our combined knowledge and experience. If you can not find consensus with the rest of us, then run your own events.

We'll do them the way we see best, thank you very much.



the PDGA saw best to back-pedal from their unnecessarily restrictive collared shirt requirement for top level events -- and i welcome that. I want the dress code to make sense and not buy into the classist notions prevalent in the past of ball golf and tennis. If i see the dress code as unnecessarily restrictive -- not just for me but for future young stars with the potential to achieve accolades i can only dream about -- I'll voice my opinions as a member :p

<font color="orange"> I judge people by who they are not what they wear but its doesnt hurt to look nice. </font>



No, you definately have tried to insult me becuase of what I was wearing. Know yourself.

No, you definately have tried to insult me becuase of what I was wearing. Know yourself.



First off that was a joke. And second of I didnt judge you as a person by what you were wearing and you know that for a fact.

Disc golf has many levels of competition and standards. Pick the one that is right for you. If the NT standards are not for you then play in an A Tier or B Tier. Or play in a C or D Tier. Or if they are cramping your style play an X Tier. And if all of them are just too restrictive there should be a mini or monthly somewhere that will fit your needs. If not, then run your own events just the way you like them.

We don't all 100% agree with all of the standards (True Amateur Class, 2 Meter Rules, DROTs, Sandals) but that is not the goal. The goal is to work together and put forward the best standards possible based on our combined knowledge and experience. If you can not find consensus with the rest of us, then run your own events.

We'll do them the way we see best, thank you very much.



the PDGA saw best to back-pedal from their unnecessarily restrictive collared shirt requirement for top level events -- and i welcome that. I want the dress code to make sense and not buy into the classist notions prevalent in the past of ball golf and tennis. If i see the dress code as unnecessarily restrictive -- not just for me but for future young stars with the potential to achieve accolades i can only dream about -- I'll voice my opinions as a member :p



You are of course always free to do that rob. Just as I am free to ignore you... :o:p ;)

If i see the dress code as unnecessarily restrictive -- not just for me but for future young stars with the potential to achieve accolades i can only dream about -- I'll voice my opinions as a member :p



You are of course always free to do that rob. Just as I am free to ignore you... :o:p ;)

[/QUOTE]

ignore this :D

DaNorm, at first I though you were just supporting your fellow LA player, now I realize you are no better than GrunioN.

Actually, you are worse.

I was going to pick apart your posts and point out how you change with every post, but I found a political thread to post on instead.

Basicly, if you really were injured (which I very much doubt after reading several of your posts) If you can play a round of disc golf, you can work doing something. Shoot even the mentally chalanged can find productive jobs to earn a living.

Well now that I have fallen prey to another Troll, I think I will go back to the political thead.

I say if the collared shirts are a requirement then the PDGA should furnish them at their events. Its not like they can't afford it right?



Should they provide us with discs also?, they are required for PDGA tournament play.

and travel expenses......
Food........
a little fuzzy bunny to make me happy.......
---------------



Grunion, answer the question. when faced with facts, you hide under your bridge, not unlike a troll.

If some of these hardheaded trailer trash types who think the entire world is against them don't want to wear collared shirts, then let them look like hobos. For those of us who have respect for ourselves and respect for those around us, we will be wearing appropriate attire.

I believe all of you dont seem to understand that although someone may have the ability to work that does not meen that the feild that is available is not saturated. Oh but it goes further than that, why would a employer higher someone with lets say brittle bone disease and have a liability on their hands? I think it is very easy to sit there with %100 of your health and pretend that their are so many avenues based off of ignorance and just not knowing what it is like to be in this kind of situation.



What you just typed told me a lot. It told me that you spend a lot of time feeling sorry for yourself. It told me that you believe that nobody has any problems nearly as bad as you and they certainly don't suffer as much as you do. It told me that you justify your lack of a life by making up excuses for yourself and repeating them until you honestly believe them. Lastly, it told me that you are either too sorry or too lazy to do anything with your life.

My dad used to say, " You need to hit them with a Two by Four , just to get their attention". :eek:

My Pops made sure , I did not end up ignorant. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Forgetful , sometimes , but that's only because I have ALL Hyzers !!!!!! :D

...why would a employer higher someone with lets say brittle bone disease and have a liability on their hands?


Since placing Mike Crump on Ignore, I've been spared most of his rants. But I caught this error in logic that someone else quoted and felt that it should be addressed as it's easily refuted.

I would suggest that he starts by reading the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/ada.html), which states:

...prohibits private employers, state and local governments, employment agencies and labor unions from discriminating against qualified individuals with disabilities in job application procedures, hiring, firing, advancement, compensation, job training, and other terms, conditions and privileges of employment.


This would include someone applying for a job who suffers from brittle bone disease.

However, the person with said disability would have to be an individual who, with or without reasonable accommodation, can perform the essential functions of the job in question.

Sorry to get off topic here ,

Is Mike Crump in any relation to Billy Crump ? :confused:

I know Billy Crump and he is totally Cool.

I don't know Mike Crump.

...Catfish metioned something about "lots of Acorns on that tree" when I asked him that, but didn't think so. :D

Your assumptions reflect your intelligence. My health is fine.

Oh yeah, and I have already stated that I have no problem wearing collared shirts so this trailer trash is fine with the non existant rule. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Just because an ACT states that society is supposed to abide by a certain document does not meen predjudice does not exist. You know this Robbie.

The Crump name is not to common so I would have to say that there might be some kind of relation. Put me in touch with him please. That would be interesting.

The Crump name is not to common so I would have to say that there might be some kind of relation. Put me in touch with him please. That would be interesting.



:D You seem to have the same sense of humor as Billy !!!!

Cool. If you hear from him , tell him I said to " Kick some Buttt out there !!!!! :D

If some of these hardheaded trailer trash types who think the entire world is against them don't want to wear collared shirts, then let them look like hobos. For those of us who have respect for ourselves and respect for those around us, we will be wearing appropriate attire.



yeah, i can see how much respect you have for people who live in trailers or who don't happen to share your conditioned preconceptions about what is and isn't appropriate attire /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

or was your post really a sarcastic lampooning of the attitude it seemingly expounds? :confused:

Looks like I should get a Collard shirt , with a little trailer , embroidered on it !!!!! :eek:

... Being well dressed in neat, clean clothes is important. Not only does it encourage other players to take you seriously, it encourages those not familiar with disc golf to take you seriously.



The only thing that makes other players take you seriously is game. Decent course etiquette helps, but it's a distant second.

I wear collared shirts and slacks pretty often. They almost never elicit any praise, adulation, or any response at all from the general public. On the other hand, I've thrown discs and had passing strangers gape and exclaim "You've got to be kidding me!" And I'm not even that good.


Look at it this way, when non-players come out to watch a tournament at their local disc golf course, would they be more willing to attempt the game if they see the players dressed like well-mannered members of society? Or would they still be interested in the game if they saw the players wearing dirty t-shirts and pants that are worn so low their choice in boxers can be seen much like some of these fashions that have infested our shopping malls and public schools?



That depends. If you held the tournament at a retirement community, or at Bob Jones University, and invited the local chapter of the VFW, then maybe I'd go with the first option. But if you're trying to attract mainstream young people, I'd say Door #2. I guess we'd have to decide which of those groups has more potential as the disc golfers of the future.


I think the dress code during tournaments should be quite strict and very clear. Collared shirts tucked in, either khaki pants or khaki shorts should be required and an all around well groomed appearance will be mandatory. This would not only make the player look better, it would make the entire disc golf community look better.



NEWSFLASH: A bunch of guys walking around in polo shirts and khakis does not generally scream fun, exciting sports event. People will think they've stumbled on the company picnic for an accounting firm.

The guy who won the Big Island Open this year did it barefoot, wearing a filthy t-shirt, and carrying three discs in his hand. That's exactly what makes him cool to watch. The guy doesn't wear shoes, doesn't carry a bag, doesn't even have a putter, and he's still better than most of us will ever be.

Thank you for bringing some intelligent humor and well-needed sanity to this thread!

The only thing that makes other players take you seriously is game. Decent course etiquette helps, but it's a distant second.



Perhaps in some circles, but not for me. If a 1000 rated player displays a lack of regard for the etiquette of the sport, there is very little chance that I would take that player seriously. And I would certainly not be willing to put them on the telly as representative of the game.

Etiquette is a very close and important second, and is elemental in earning the respect of the public at large.

Is Mike Crump in any relation to Billy Crump ?



No.


Hi Donnie! :cool:

Etiquette is a very close and important second, and is elemental in earning the respect of the public at large.



Yeah, you're right. And our behavior is way more important than any dress code.

Case in point: I ran into one of these "hippies" some people like to deride on the course yesterday and played a few holes with him. He was friendly, polite, played good golf, and stopped to pick up trash that wasn't his. Now that's good PR!

I always play with etiquette, but I litter like crazy...However, I do it in a collared shirt :D

wear what u want during casual rounds, but a pdga b-tier or up is not where u make a statement about attire and personal preference. You are there to compete with discgolfers, not designers....
Next time you go bowling, tell the guy you want to wear your birkenstocks and not the shoes they provide, see what he says...

People like you are what's wrong with America today.

I'm pretty sure someone, somewhere, needs a corporate incentive sports event package. Shouldn't you be finding them?

Boru...Droppin science /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Boru- Sure collared shirts aren't going to attract some younger players. But the point is growing our sport from a sponsorship point of view. Getting corporate types to believe that investing money in our sport is worthwhile will allow us to reach a larger audience of people. I don't think the young players in question constitute sponsorship dollars.

I have the disc golf live video of the guy you spoke of slamming that put from behind the tree barefoot it was sweet. But I still think he should have been dressed better so that we could have used the footage in a promotional way to attract sponsors.

We all know that many good players dress less that professional on the course and are great ethical people but sponsors don't and to get them to show up and see how great these people are we need to appeal to their visual sense of what might be a good investment.

what can we do that will allow corporate Amerika chew us up an d spit us out when they have had there way with us

The younger more accepting generation is moving in and I feel they are less descriminatory about looks. Its a matter of time before this Corporate view is non existant. I know people here in Austin that get high paying jobs working as IT professionals that interviewed in holey shorts and a T-shirt. Its just a matter of time.

what can we do that will allow corporate Amerika chew us up an d spit us out when they have had there way with us



Geez do you also think we never landed on the moon?
you sound pretty paranoid that we will become part of the corporate machine. More of your same thinking that we should never attempt something because of some unknown result.

So you think that every major sport with corporate sponsorship is a sellout automaton.

It would just be terrible if people could actually make a decent living as a pro disc golfer.

Ya we need to really lookout from being corrupted by the MAN.

what can we do that will allow corporate Amerika chew us up an d spit us out when they have had there way with us



HEY IS THAT AN ASSUMPTION?????? :p

So you think that every major sport with corporate sponsorship is a sellout automaton.

No, but I will say there is a small percentage seeing all the $$$$ you guys think you will see

That sentence is a little hard to understand but if I understand you correctly your saying that only a few will see the $.
Who are these select few the PDGA BOD? or players. Because if you are talking about players only 1 player in the world makes a decent living and barely at that so I guess you can't get much smaller that 1.

neither one of the two you mentioned

Sure collared shirts aren't going to attract some younger players. But the point is growing our sport from a sponsorship point of view.


Once again, this is not really related to the PDGA dress code, but let me understand your present argument. You admit that a dress code might turn off potential new players, but it is a good strategy because it will "grow our sport from a sponsorship point of view?"

So, a smaller auidience for the sponsors attracts more sponsors?



Getting corporate types to believe that investing money in our sport is worthwhile


So, sponsors are more excited about a well-dressed small group than they are about a not-as-well-dressed larger group (with identical demographics). I assume most of these sponsors are out of business.



I don't think the young players in question constitute sponsorship dollars.


Really? What leads you to this conclusion?

The younger more accepting generation is moving in and I feel they are less descriminatory about looks. Its a matter of time before this Corporate view is non existant. I know people here in Austin that get high paying jobs working as IT professionals that interviewed in holey shorts and a T-shirt. Its just a matter of time.



They are also IT techs and dont meet and deal with customers. They work on computers in the background of a company and sometimes are never seen at all. The computer guy my dad uses for his company and our personal computers barely EVER comes out and does work face to face. I myself have had him fix my problems multiple times and have NEVER seen his face. For all I know he could be a 1 legged dwarf. Not that it matters because he is a computer genious. The thing is if those guys have to deal with customers and be face to face with the customer they would be required to dress a little more appropiate.

From the Log Rolling Thread (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=407269&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6581/this7zh.jpg

This is on ESPN with major sponsorships by STIHL and Kawasaki.

The lack of media exposure has much bigger obstacles than the dress code.

I think we all need fishnet tank tops if we really want to draw in the masses-- extra smalls for the fat guys like me. Maybe some cut off jeans wouldn't hurt either.
Another thing I see at all the tournies is a serious need for dental service. Maybe the PDGA could work a deal with The national Dentists Assoc and start giving cleanings for CTP's or maybe a couple free teeth for an A tier win.

Maybe getting on TV doesn't make one rich or famous. :D

If you look good the sponsors are more willing to give you money. If the sponsors give you money more people are going to want to attend to try and win some of that money. More people dress nice and try to come win the money the sponsors give then the sponsors see growth and they give more money.

Nicely Dressed = Better chance at sponsoship dollars
More sponsoship money = more people
More people = larger fields and more entry fees
Larger fields and more entry fees = More exposure for sponsor
More exsposure for sponsor = more sponsorship money

Now just start over from the top and repeat untill disc golf is a Multi Million dollar sport :D

that is a realistic post if I have ever seen one :D

Sure collared shirts aren't going to attract some younger players. But the point is growing our sport from a sponsorship point of view. ... I don't think the young players in question constitute sponsorship dollars.



I work in marketing. Teenagers have ridiculous spending power these days - not least because they influence what their parents buy - and are one of the most sought-after target markets there is. So yeah, I'd say they constitute major potential sponsorship dollars.


I still think he should have been dressed better so that we could have used the footage in a promotional way to attract sponsors.



If anyone's going to make a promotional video, it should be one aimed at attracting new players. The PDGA has 8518 active members. Another 20,000 or so were members once but aren't anymore. We can safely assume that many of these people still play. And of course, the majority of disc golfers have never belonged to the PDGA. So let's assume (and I think this is a stretch) there are 100,000 people out there who play disc golf. In the entire world. Most people, especially in major metro areas, have never heard of the sport.

If we want sponsorship dollars, we need more players. Period. Not the other way around.

To get those players, we need more courses. We need more pro shops. We need more small local events that cater to new players. We need to bring our friends out with us. Once we have enough warm bodies who play in and watch our events, the sponsors will come.

I live in the NW where "dressing up" means putting on your good pair of sandals and classiest hemp accessory. All the 'kids' (people under 25) seem to have no problem whatsoever with the PDGA dress code. People who compete in this level of event (Pro ST or NT) have dedicated a lot to the sport (practice, cash to enter the event, travel, etc.) and don't seem to mind wearing something nice during the rounds. Furthermore, a NT and ST are not the primary way to attract new players to the sport. New players are attracted to DG by small local events (usually mentioned by a DG-playing friend). These new players will shell out $5-$10 for a weekly doubles tourney and then they will be hooked... (vs starting at a NT for $50).


Another thing I see at all the tournies is a serious need for dental service. Maybe the PDGA could work a deal with The national Dentists Assoc and start giving cleanings for CTP's or maybe a couple free teeth for an A tier win.

:D

Another thing I see at all the tournies is a serious need for dental service. Maybe the PDGA could work a deal with The national Dentists Assoc and start giving cleanings for CTP's or maybe a couple free teeth for an A tier win.



I hope they do. I just super glued my front tooth back on yesterday. Would I get a platinum grill if I win Worlds http://www.msnemotions.org/emoticons/remix/CAAZY5WP.png?

LOL, YUP and a lifetime supply of mouthwash and floss.

Sure collared shirts aren't going to attract some younger players. But the point is growing our sport from a sponsorship point of view. ... I don't think the young players in question constitute sponsorship dollars.



I work in marketing. Teenagers have ridiculous spending power these days - not least because they influence what their parents buy - and are one of the most sought-after target markets there is. So yeah, I'd say they constitute major potential sponsorship dollars.


I still think he should have been dressed better so that we could have used the footage in a promotional way to attract sponsors.



If anyone's going to make a promotional video, it should be one aimed at attracting new players. The PDGA has 8518 active members. Another 20,000 or so were members once but aren't anymore. We can safely assume that many of these people still play. And of course, the majority of disc golfers have never belonged to the PDGA. So let's assume (and I think this is a stretch) there are 100,000 people out there who play disc golf. In the entire world. Most people, especially in major metro areas, have never heard of the sport.

If we want sponsorship dollars, we need more players. Period. Not the other way around.

To get those players, we need more courses. We need more pro shops. We need more small local events that cater to new players. We need to bring our friends out with us. Once we have enough warm bodies who play in and watch our events, the sponsors will come.



So how do you propose we educate all the new players that our sport is something they would like to play Osmosis?

neither one of the two you mentioned



Man you are so cryptic :D

Sure collared shirts aren't going to attract some younger players. But the point is growing our sport from a sponsorship point of view.


Once again, this is not really related to the PDGA dress code, but let me understand your present argument. You admit that a dress code might turn off potential new players, but it is a good strategy because it will "grow our sport from a sponsorship point of view?"

So, a smaller auidience for the sponsors attracts more sponsors?



Getting corporate types to believe that investing money in our sport is worthwhile


So, sponsors are more excited about a well-dressed small group than they are about a not-as-well-dressed larger group (with identical demographics). I assume most of these sponsors are out of business.



I don't think the young players in question constitute sponsorship dollars.


Really? What leads you to this conclusion?



Well I guess most 18-25 year old kids don't run large companys.

What I gather form the collared shirt detractors is that we should just keep being an organization that never tries to better itself. Do you guys realy belive that enforcing a higher level of expectations at our largest events will hurt our sport? If we take ourselves more seriously others will as well. Look at how golf has taken off it's not because they stayed small and afraid of change but rather they gained exposure through the media and company's like Nike that took an interest.

Nike didn't have a single golf related product untill Tiger came along and was sponsored by them. Now they are the largest company involved at all levels of golf from the professional to the weekend hack.

Why because millions of people viewd on TV Tiger dressed nice in Nike clothing using nike balls and Nike attire.

You're right, most people don't start at major tournaments. So in that sense, the dress code doesn't mean anything to new players.

If you take a longer view though, it could. Some people seem to think that the more our sport looks and feels like ball golf, the better off we'll be. I couldn't disagree more.

If collared shirts, etc., were required at big events, and we did end up getting exposure, the public would come to view disc golf as another collared-shirt sport. Ball golf, but with frisbees.

On the other hand, look at snowboarding. 15 years ago, it was an upstart sport, banned on many ski mountains. Now it's huge, especially among younger people. And if you know anything about snowboarding, you know it didn't get there by being "skiing, but with a board". Snowboarding got where it is because of the culture that surrounds it. It appealed to people who were turned off by the stodgy, elitist atmosphere of skiing. It turned out there were enough of those people to constitute a critical mass, and now it's skiing that's been forced to accommodate them or die.

Like it or not, disc golf has its own, distinct culture. Many people enjoy this culture, and those are the ones who will form our critical mass. We risk alienating them if, down the road, our sport becomes thought of as something that should be played in a collared shirt.

Well I guess most 18-25 year old kids don't run large companys.



I think some people here have a very distorted idea of how sponsorship works. They picture some white-haired corporate honcho visiting a tournament, saying "These seem like fine young men," and cutting a check. And that does happen, on a very small level.

The big money, though, goes where it will attract the most customers. It's an investment. A bunch of people sit around a conference table having a discussion like:

"So, the majority of these people are going to be in the 18-25 age bracket?"
"Yeah."
"Do we know anything about their income or spending habits?"
"Well, as a group they're pretty diverse, so nothing concrete."
"I've heard some of them have long hair and smoke pot."
"Yeah, but young people don't really mind that - according to our focus groups."

And so on, until they determine whether the sponsorship will be a good investment.

On the other hand, look at snowboarding. 15 years ago, it was an upstart sport, banned on many ski mountains. Now it's huge, especially among younger people. And if you know anything about snowboarding, you know it didn't get there by being "skiing, but with a board". Snowboarding got where it is because of the culture that surrounds it. It appealed to people who were turned off by the stodgy, elitist atmosphere of skiing. It turned out there were enough of those people to constitute a critical mass, and now it's skiing that's been forced to accommodate them or die.


Yeah, but disc golf with pole holes has been around for 30 years already.

I guess the reality of it all is that we a destined to be no more than 10k players strong in any one organization.

I can live with that, even if I'm not yet resigned to it.


Has anyone ever thought that perhaps we are just the opposite of snowboarding? That maybe our blatant counter-cultural approach might actually be keeping new players away? It's a great game, but if you aren't into the heritage stuff and you really don't like being around the heritage stuff and having it right in your grill you probably won't stick around to learn to love the game.

Hey, where's the acceptance that everyone likes to preach about around here? Why can't we accept those who just want to fling a piece of plastic around the park without all the other BS in their face?

You're right, most people don't start at major tournaments. So in that sense, the dress code doesn't mean anything to new players.

If you take a longer view though, it could. Some people seem to think that the more our sport looks and feels like ball golf, the better off we'll be. I couldn't disagree more.

If collared shirts, etc., were required at big events, and we did end up getting exposure, the public would come to view disc golf as another collared-shirt sport. Ball golf, but with frisbees.

On the other hand, look at snowboarding. 15 years ago, it was an upstart sport, banned on many ski mountains. Now it's huge, especially among younger people. And if you know anything about snowboarding, you know it didn't get there by being "skiing, but with a board". Snowboarding got where it is because of the culture that surrounds it. It appealed to people who were turned off by the stodgy, elitist atmosphere of skiing. It turned out there were enough of those people to constitute a critical mass, and now it's skiing that's been forced to accommodate them or die.

Like it or not, disc golf has its own, distinct culture. Many people enjoy this culture, and those are the ones who will form our critical mass. We risk alienating them if, down the road, our sport becomes thought of as something that should be played in a collared shirt.



I will have to dissagree with you on the Snowboarding issue.
I grew up 45min from Mt Hood and started snowboarding in 1985! so that would be 20 years ago.
Us early snowboarders were mostly skaters and surfers. We could care less about what the skiers were doing or what they stood for. Many a time we would show up at diffrent resorts and were told they didn't allow snowboarding there mostly because they were worried that we couldn't get of the lifts in a safe manner.

A good friend of mine was one of the first sponsored riders by a company called LOOK. they painted a mural of him on the side of a bulding in downtown Portland and he was wearing gear that skiers wore at the time basicaly he looked like a skier on a snowboard.

It wsn't some revolt against the establishment it was simply something new.

and as far as spensing money goes my 89 Burton Mystery Air cost $400 back then so you definatly had to have some cash to be a snowboarder.

Has anyone ever thought that perhaps we are just the opposite of snowboarding? That maybe our blatant counter-cultural approach might actually be keeping new players away? It's a great game, but if you aren't into the heritage stuff and you really don't like being around the heritage stuff and having it right in your grill you probably won't stick around to learn to love the game.

Hey, where's the acceptance that everyone likes to preach about around here? Why can't we accept those who just want to fling a piece of plastic around the park without all the other BS in their face?



I know several people who don't play alot because of that. They'd rather limp around the Ultimate field than put up with DG's heritage, though they like the game enough to want to play seriously (ie, tourneys).

The mainstream (gasp! eek!) is wanting to play, but don't want to put up with the BS.

Geez do you also think we never landed on the moon?




No, we didn't. The film footage was shot in South America.

Snowboarding gets sponsorship, same as XGames, because they are exciting to watch on TV. Just watch those guys do there flips and stuff is amazing.

Who wants to watch a guy throw a disc into a basket???

Disc golf if actually more boring than golf on TV.

Without TV, Disc golf will never be anything larger than it is right now.

Geez do you also think we never landed on the moon?




No, we didn't. The film footage was shot in South America.


Really? Magnificent desolation down there.

How'd they manage to lower the gravity there? http://themooneysuzuki.com/media/common/emoticons/eek.gif

They have a Warehouse , insulated.

If they could lay the insulation on reeeeeeeeeeeeeal thickly, they could send a mission to the Sun...during the day! :)

Shouldn't be a problem for our Government. I think I have been supporting NASA , since I was born !!!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Boru- Sure collared shirts aren't going to attract some younger players. But the point is growing our sport from a sponsorship point of view. Getting corporate types to believe that investing money in our sport is worthwhile will allow us to reach a larger audience of people. I don't think the young players in question constitute sponsorship dollars.



I don't think corporations base their decisions to move into sponsoring a sport like disc golf on whether or not they wear collared shirts. Instead they look at how many potential consumers they can reach through investing in the sport. If they think the sport is soon to take off, they'll be more likely to want to get in early. They will be most interested in numbers -- how many play and how many like to spectate.

If you look at Tiger and Nike's affect on ball golf, it seems to be part of a movement away from the stuffy dress code norms of the past and to a more athletic, less dressed 'up' look. The same trend is occuring in tennis too. What that also helps do is open up the sport to persons of all socio-economic classes. Strangely the television viewership of PGA events and NASCAR is starting to overlap. Strange but true. To corporations that is great -- now they can reach a much wider audience through investing in either or both of these two venues. (i personally did not used to watch either, but my disc golf addiction has made watching ball golf more interesting; NASCAR still seems about as boring as it gets)

The young are everything to corporations. If they can get a teen or even pre-teen to feel loyal to their products at a young age they may have a customer for life. In other words -- profit city. That is why loosening up our dress code and letting sponsors decide what the top players wear makes sense. The best players are sponsored and are given shirts to wear by their sponsors. I'm sure companies like Innova, Gateway, and Discraft look at what the dress code is when deciding what options they will give their players in terms of apparel. Why not let the sponsors decide without forcing collars, etc.? (that seems to be the direction the PDGA has moved this year since collars are no longer required at major events)

If you look at Tiger and Nike's affect on ball golf, it seems to be part of a movement away from the stuffy dress code norms of the past and to a more athletic, less dressed 'up' look.



When Duval and Tiger and all others are wearing the MOCK collars they look just as proffesional as everyone else. Remember they are required to wear pants at all time when competeing. No matter if it is 99 degrees or 40 degrees they must wear pants and now they are straying a tad bit from the polo type collared shirt but these guys are still wearing nice looking clothes that look proffesional. Im not saying that we must wear collared shirt im just saying that we need to look good. No teeshirts or wifebeaters or cut off or the sort. I have no problem with wearing dri fit athletic shirts that look decent. I think that collared shirts look better but thats just my opinion.

I think what we really need for this sport to take off is someone who has boat loads of money and alot of connections to fall in love with our sport and make it happen. One day in the next 20 years of my disc golf career I want to go to bed on a sunday and say "**** Im lucky I just won 15 grand today playing the sport I love". The only way that is going to happen is threw sponsorship money and exsposure which we are starting to get more and more of each day. The Vitamin Water people were at DGLO giving away free samples and the players were LOVING it and the guy saw that. Maybe now we can go to Vitamin Water (what has to be a multi million dollar company) and say hey. Almost all our guys will start drinking Vitamin water if you support our sport and hook us up with some sponsorship money. Heck. Since DGLO I have prolly bought 20 bottles or more of Vitamin water just because I got a free sample and loved it. The Red Bull people were out at the Brent Hambrick Memorial checkin it out and handing out free samples and god knows us disc golfers couldnt live without our red bull. If redbull slapped a label on the can that said Official sponsor of the 2006 PDGA National Tour then every disc golfer in the world would drink Red Bull over any other energy drink (unless they couldnt stand the taste) just because they sponsored part of the National Tour. This is where we need to look for sponsoship. Not ESPN or anything like that.

We need to be going to Beer companies because we all know Disc Golfers like to drink. We need to be going to companies like Merrel and North Face and Montrail because alot of us use their stuff in the first place. Hell* we could even call up ROOR. Sure they make water bongs but hell everyone thinks we are a bunch of dope smokers anyway so why not get a Pipe manufacturer to sponsor us. God knows there are alot of disc golfers who support the company anyway. We need to look for sponsorship dollars from the companies we already use. Its alot easier to get sponsorship from people who make products we already use rather then a company none of us uses. Why arent people going to Gatorade or Poweraid or Red Bull or Pepsi or Coke or Miller for sponsorship. Every disc golfer in the world prolly spends a ton of money buying products from one of those companies and they all have money coming out of their ying yangs. Why not call up Graffix and see if they will shoot us some money. We cant be picky about where we get sponsorship we just need to get it. Once we get some sponsoship and some money then more people will come and when more people come then more sponsors come because they realize they need to cash in on the DG market like others already have.

Following the dress code is not a tough thing to do and it makes us presentable. We dont have to be preppy or anything like that. Just look freakin decent for gods sakes. Its not that hard and it helps the sport.

Mills, I hope you win 15 grand one day also. But your desire and discussion of small-time sponsors is virtually identical to the discussion of 15 - 20 years ago. For all but a handful of people, the economics have not changed.

One thing people always gloss over is that ball golf is centuries old. Generation after generation after generation played before there were small-scale pros. I read that the first pros were financed primarily through entry fees. In other words, it didn't even begin until enough people were willing to pay to watch these people play.

**** i was with you until you said we should get a sponsor who makes water bongs. that would possibly be the worst thing we could do. that basically says we aren't professionals, we are a bunch of stoners playing a stoner sport.

No it does not. Are you saying that stoners cant be professional? You would be suprised if the professionals did not have respect and just pulled a pipe out during a tourney like I hear all the time. But they dont. That is why they are professional. They have respect for others and themselves. What about all the dope smokers that play the sport? Lord knows they out number the ones that dont toke it up? A sponsor is a sponsor. There is no such thing as bad advertisement, just look at the name GrunioN. :D

Having bong sponsors is idiotic. Actually, when I hear crap like this, I start to think that the PDGA should be more like real professional organizations and discipline TDs that do stuff like this.

I am sorry but a bong is illegal. It is a water pipe. You can not stereotype illegal use. I guess we would reject a fertilizer sponsorship because you can make a bomb from it huh, and we would not want to promote terroristic activities. Cmon......money is money. Forget about the association between the irresponsible and the sponsors. More people is more people no matter what roots they have. The wider the demographic the better right? Oh thats right, PDGA only wants cetain types to be a part of the DG scene. Descrimination is not going to get the numbers up.

United Disc Golf............I smell it in the air. ;)

That smell in the air is from all the chit you talk :o:D

Did someone say bong?

Maybe you should contemplate the difference between two ideas:

1) Disc golf (the PDGA) should want to be inclusive and tolerate diversity. Discrimination would be policies that tried to drive people away; and

2) Disc golf (the PDGA) wants to be a responsible sport in that it is not promoting dope smoking.

By the way, the fertilizer analogy blows.

Yes.

You guys are funny. Whats even funnier is when they start implimenting the drug testing before tournies. Is this where you want to see the sport go? Free your mind. Bongs are illegal. Water pipes and smoking accessories are perfectly legal. Hell, I am sure if some pharmasudical company wanted to sponsor the sport you would not have a problem with it even when people start dieing from heart attacks from taking their medications. :o

I will have to dissagree with you on the Snowboarding issue. ... It wsn't some revolt against the establishment it was simply something new.



1. Yes, snowboarding has been around longer than 15 years. But there's no denying it took off in the early '90s. And that the sport's growth coincided with the emergence of a distinct snowboarding culture. You could make the case that the growth in numbers led to the formation of the culture. I'd say they fueled each other.

2. A large number of snowboarders, particularly younger ones, wouldn't ski if snowboarding didn't exist. I'd make the case that many disc golfers wouldn't golf at all if ball golf were their only option.

I agree, but Skateboarding would be a better example of a counter-culture sport making it to the mainstream though...Especially with the dress code thing.

Yes, I have always thought that not-advertising-for-water-pipes will directly lead to drug testing. In fact, the more I think about it, all of those companies that drug test don't advertise for water pipes. Wow, you ARE on to something.

You guys are funny. Whats even funnier is when they start implimenting the drug testing before tournies. Is this where you want to see the sport go? Free your mind. Bongs are illegal. Water pipes and smoking accessories are perfectly legal. Hell, I am sure if some pharmasudical company wanted to sponsor the sport you would not have a problem with it even when people start dieing from heart attacks from taking their medications. :o




Texas Instruments has a Say-and-Spell product line, and I here their intrasted in sponsering locul playerrs /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Yeah, but disc golf with pole holes has been around for 30 years already.



So things grow at different rates. If you look at just the last few years, I think the picture is rather encouraging. The number of courses worldwide nearly doubled between 1998-2003.


Has anyone ever thought that perhaps we are just the opposite of snowboarding? That maybe our blatant counter-cultural approach might actually be keeping new players away? It's a great game, but if you aren't into the heritage stuff and you really don't like being around the heritage stuff and having it right in your grill you probably won't stick around to learn to love the game.

Hey, where's the acceptance that everyone likes to preach about around here? Why can't we accept those who just want to fling a piece of plastic around the park without all the other BS in their face?



One of the things that first attracted me to disc golf was the number of different types of people who played. I'd never before encountered a setting in which people from all walks of life were willing to abide each other's differences to play a game. The only kind of people this atmosphere keeps away are the intolerant ones, the people who think everyone else should change to accommodate them. And yeah, I'd be happy if those people stayed away forever.

In the past two months, I've introduced five people to the sport. All of them loved it; all of them will play again. It's not just the physical act of throwing a frisbee. It's the pleasant surroundings, the atmosphere of mellow competition, and the stream of other, very different people you meet on the course.

By the way, I'm not advocating treating disc golf like a frat party. If the only reason you're out on the course is to rip bowls and drink beers, I'd rather you not be there either.

Brian,

You make too much sense to be taken seriously :D

Maybe now we can go to Vitamin Water (what has to be a multi million dollar company) and say hey. Almost all our guys will start drinking Vitamin water if you support our sport and hook us up with some sponsorship money.



Which goes to show that companies will sponsor us if they think we're a potential market. Vitamin Water also had some kind of endorsement deal with 50 Cent, so they obviously aren't too concerned with a squeaky-clean image.


Why arent people going to Gatorade or Poweraid or Red Bull or Pepsi or Coke or Miller for sponsorship.



We don't constitute enough potential sales.

Why arent people going to Miller for sponsorship.




We don't constitute enough potential sales.



I single handedly drink enough Miller Lite & High Life to sponsor the National Tour /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Brian,

You make too much sense to be taken seriously :D



Sorry, I'll try to ramp up the rhetoric a bit. How's this:

Disc golf is, and always has been, about FREEDOM. When our founding fathers, like STEADY ED and GEORGE WASHINGTON, fought and died to defend this great sport, they were fighting for FREEDOM. The people who try to make us wear collared shirts during tournaments HATE FREEDOM. They HATE THE CONSTITUTION. They want to RAISE TAXES. It's UNAMERICAN, it's UNDEMOCRATIC, and it's WRONG. There is NO OTHER WAY. And in summary, HELL AWAITS THOSE WHO WOULD FORCE A DRESS CODE UPON US!!!

There's the synopsis I was looking for.

I was just talking to a friend last night about this thread (wearing collered shirts) and in the last week it has really bounced around...even wondered off the path to knocking misspellings!
First off, at this years PDGA Amatuer World Championships (which is another issue all of it's own...the P is for professional, and they're having Am Championships??) in the invite letter is says "The dress code will be 'collared shirts requested' during practice and during the Monday-Friday preliminary rounds. The dress code will be 'collared shirts required' for all players competing in the Semis and Finals on Saturday August 13." So if the PDGA is not requiring collars in the biggest tournament that it sanctions, then why should I wear one at my local C-Tier, or A and B-Tiers for that matter (which is when I make a point to wear collars)? They obviously don't mind at the World Championships, which I would think would get more press than most tournaments, so what's the big deal? A collar alone does not make most people look better.
Most people don't have an image of disc golf, if it weren't for me (an elementary school teacher) most of the kids, parents, and coworkers at my school wouldn't know disc golf exsists. Occasionally someone will see an article in the paper, or on the news about dg and tell me they saw it. Those are good images, most people are not on the course 'seeing the sights and smelling the smells', only us dgers.
And if dg has/gets the hippie/stoner image I don't think, in the long run, that it is all bad. You can do what you want to change it in the mind of the people you come in contact with but I for one think we should take advantage of it. Skateboarding, snowboarding, and surfing have all come up and I think they are good examples of how we can get publicity. Embrace the culture. When people that don't even play disc golf start relating to it and want be connected to it, through clothing for example, that's when we'll see bigger sponsors, that's when those other sports took off. It's cool to be a surfer/skater/snowboarder, even if you don't do it you can look like it by dressing like one. They all had the rebellious/stoner/non-athlete image. Now you can go to Wal-Mart and buy a skateboard & skateboard clothes and look like a skater, even though you can't even stand on a board. (By the way, if your local Wal-Mart starts selling discs like one here in Denver started doing, DON'T BUY 'EM!! Keep supporting your local or online supplier, even for a couple $ a disc more!--but that too is another thread altogether)
So, I feel that getting those 'a disc and a beer weekend warriors' involved, not in tournaments neccesarily, but in being a disc golfer because it's cool is the first step to getting publicity, then sponsors will come.
peace,
-mikew

No.

Programs like EDGE designed to increase disc golf participation amongst youngsters will do far more to grow our sport into Steve's vision of winning boat-loads of green than wearing collared shirts can ever hope to achieve.

We should all get in great shape to promote the idea that the trend toward obesity can be countered with disc golf participation. Anyone notice how obese our children are getting? In the long run, looking fit may be the best thing you can do to help grow our sport's appeal to educators and potential sponsors.

I agree, The PDGA should embrace the culture that made them what they are today. Not try to mutate it into an image they would like to see. Stop trying to be a wanna be golfer. Go buy a friggin club instead if you wanna act like a snooty, low self esteam, wanna be.

I just want to make lots of money playing the sport I love so whatever gets us there is fine with me but im in the process of trying to do my part to get it there. We shall see if it works or not :D

if you spent an adequate amount of time on other priorities you would not be dependent on a GAME for your income!

Word on that.

That is the best post on the subject that I have seen yet. I started a disc golf club at my school (K-6) last year and this summer there is a course going in less than a mile from where I teach so they will be able to do more than play horseshoes, ring of fire, and throw at a basket out in the field.

The way this thread jumps around reminds me of a joke...
how many ADD kids does it take to screw in a light bulb?...

hey, wanna go ride bikes!!

I just want to make lots of money playing the sport I love so whatever gets us there is fine with me but im in the process of trying to do my part to get it there. We shall see if it works or not :D



my point exactly, so if you had no stake in where you are trying to get it would you be interested? I am thinking it is all about $$$

if you spent an adequate amount of time on other priorities you would not be dependent on a GAME for your income!



I have a full time job I dont NEED to make money playing this game but I would like to in the future.

Dont act like you know my priorities either. Thanks

my point exactly, so if you had no stake in where you are trying to get it would you be interested? I am thinking it is all about $$$



Actually if it was all about the money I would have gone pro in tennis or ball golf (which I was told by pros I could have if I practiced) Its all about the sport that I love and I will play it whether there is money in it or not. It would just be nice to only work in disc golf and make the kind of money I want to make.

I agree, The PDGA should embrace the culture that made them what they are today. Not try to mutate it into an image they would like to see. Stop trying to be a wanna be golfer. Go buy a friggin club instead if you wanna act like a snooty, low self esteam, wanna be.



Are you talking about me?

Programs like EDGE designed to increase disc golf participation amongst youngsters will do far more to grow our sport into Steve's vision of winning boat-loads of green than wearing collared shirts can ever hope to achieve.

We should all get in great shape to promote the idea that the trend toward obesity can be countered with disc golf participation. Anyone notice how obese our children are getting? In the long run, looking fit may be the best thing you can do to help grow our sport's appeal to educators and potential sponsors.



Word on that.

That is the best post on the subject that I have seen yet. I started a disc golf club at my school (K-6) last year and this summer there is a course going in less than a mile from where I teach so they will be able to do more than play horseshoes, ring of fire, and throw at a basket out in the field.

The way this thread jumps around reminds me of a joke...
how many ADD kids does it take to screw in a light bulb?...

hey, wanna go ride bikes!!

[/QUOTE]

Looking fit suggests health and that is what we should encourage. It has an evolutionary appeal too that probably hits at an unconscious level -- just the kind of thing the marketers of the world like. Sponsors will sponsor anything if it leads to reaching potential customers. Rather than selling out to alcohol/beer companies (the conservative stoner's equivalent to marijuana) we would do well to appeal to the growing health and fitness industry.

That said, all bets that we'll take the high road are off. Too many people want to criticize drug users even though they themselves are habitual alcohol (aka: drug) drinkers. They would love beer sponsorships even though alcohol kills a lot of people every year and also wreaks havoc on individual health and upon family dynamics...

Hardly. ;)

The only solution to the problem is for us all to wear shirts with 2m collars.

What if the playing surface is undefinable? :D

just out of curiousity why do you care anyway grunion since your not a member; do you post on the PGA Tour webpage about their rules as well? :D

Well there is an idea. :D

I care because I advocate disc golf and if I am going to be a member of something I promote, then I want to be educated on what I am a part of. Simple as that. :cool:

I care because I advocate disc golf



advocate (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=advocate) -- To speak, plead, or argue in favor of

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." -- Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/)

The word you should be using is impugn (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=impugn).

The only thing I attack is the manner of your posting.

Dude, I love that movie! :cool:

Why dont you take your weenie breath somewhere else :D

And you can't even do that effectively or with substantiation. But the irony of your unwitting hypocrisy is noted.

Fat head! :eek: :D:D

PDGA: this is a compliment to Robs education. :D

The reason why he smiling is that he likes fat head :Dwhy do you think he has weenie breath :o:D

You wish you had my Oscar Myer weiner. That is why you are a hater. And not a very good one at that. Stick to your generation old man. :o

Start a thread man. I'll join you there.

I saw a Collard shirt today in OB , has a Embroidered , three color bong on the front. :eek:

How about a collared polo shirt with a sleeveless athletic shirt worn like a vest on top of it? :o

Or a collared shirt that has text which reads:

'collared shirts are for the athleticly challenged" /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

it would have led to some strange creative responses (tie-dyed collared shirts, sandals, etc.) but i think the PDGA knew what it was doing when it backed off on the dress code this year

Hmmmmm.......... In my picture here , I'm wearing a Collard shirt , even though my female sponsors are wearing Spandex pants and tube tops !!!! :eek: :D

Hmmmmm.......... In my picture here , I'm wearing a Collard shirt , even though my female sponsors are wearing Spandex pants and tube tops !!!! :eek: :D



careful. that may invoke a female golfer sponsored by Chippendale's having one ot their 'dancers' as a caddy. Do we really want to go there ? :confused:

collard greens
collared shirts

Not a problem , as long as a Collard shirt is worn , by the Disc Golf Player , in the picture !!!!! :D

I wore my tie-dye collared shirt at the Santa Maria tourney and got an ace.

"I hit an ace with a tye-dye collared shirt on"....Nobody cares buddy...turn off your computer...and never turn it on again.
HAHAHA!

...no I wore a collared shirt in the second round of tahoe...so...ya maybe they are okay.

How about a collared polo shirt with a sleeveless athletic shirt worn like a vest on top of it? :o

Or a collared shirt that has text which reads:

'collared shirts are for the athleticly challenged" /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

it would have led to some strange creative responses (tie-dyed collared shirts, sandals, etc.) but i think the PDGA knew what it was doing when it backed off on the dress code this year


Sounds like you need to go buy some of those collared shirts then Rob since your athletic ability is questionable. :D

If it were, i might be more inclined to dress 'up' /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

ps: you're almost half my age, but anytime you want to take me on in an MTA contest let me know -- i'll even wear a collared shirt just for you :eek:

What's mta :confused: :confused: :cool:

What's mta :confused: :confused: :cool:



MTA.......in Frisbee World , is Maximum Time Aloft.
TRC ......in Frisbee World , is Throw , Run , Catch.

Both are Field events.

Is TRC measured in distance, only?

...some of the guys were trying MTA on the balldiamond, with a proper "Lid" and all, and were getting around 9 seconds...I think the record is at least 16 seconds. I couldn't even manage a throw...the disc had to be hyzered at basically a straight-up-and-down attitude; my arm doesn't work that way! :(

MTA is time, TRC is distance. A factor is applied to one of them to make it equivalent to the other, then they are added together for your SCF score. (Self Caught Flight)

Use an FB3 for MTA. Throw it so the disc is level with the ground but the trajectory is close to vertical. :)

I was throwing a 126 gram Roc at the Beach , with a slight turnover...............Wow..........must have been over 16 seconds.........It flew ,way over my head , even though I ran as fast as possible. People were like , what kind of Frisbee is that ? :eek:

126, not 106? DTW had these light Rocs [Ontario] for a while--might still.

...I can't throw for beans, but I can catch with the best..."get vertical" need not only apply to Ultimate. :D

I was throwing a 126 gram Roc at the Beach , with a slight turnover...............Wow..........must have been over 16 seconds.........It flew ,way over my head , even though I ran as fast as possible. People were like , what kind of Frisbee is that ? :eek:



MTA at the beach is one of life's most simple pleasures.

It's good to see you all are done discussing shirts.

For MTA and TRC you must catch the disc with one hand -- no traps. So a time doesn't count without the catch. I recommend MTA-weight Condors (which are either 129 or 139g?). Zack -- quit playing dumb and lets MTA for some $ :D Like i said -- i'll even wear a collared shirt (sorry to get back on thread Rhonda)

I was doing MTA's at the beach on the south shore of England where the wind was constant and around 40 MPH without any gusts, just one constant speed. If you threw a driver straight ahead with all your might, and just a little upward, it would go about 150 or 200 feet, raise up, and sit there for about 15 or 20 seconds, fall back and land behind you. Extremely hard to catch it though because you have to wait and run backwards.

The wind was amazing there, all the Brits were parasailing from the beach with no boat. just stand on the beach, put up the parachute, and it was lifting them right off the ground. They also had little carts pulled by parachutes.

My point is, they weren't wearing collared shirts

Maybe because they where on a beach.

My point is, they weren't wearing collared shirts



#1, Collared shirts aren't required. :p
#2, It was a B-tier, anyway. :D

Maybe because they where on a beach.



as opposed to being at a public park? :D

Wow. What fun. Thanks for that vivid description. I feel like I could spend an entire weekend on that beach. :)

I wore my tie-dye collared shirt at the Santa Maria tourney and got an ace.



Michael Johansen wore his tie dye collared shirt to the High Plains Classic and got his picture on the cover of the Summer 2005 DGWN :D (got mine in the mail yesterday) Makes me wonder if Rick R. is reading this thread :D

I am all for people choosing to wear collared-shirts to big events. I am also glad the PDGA no longer requires collared shirts at A tiers and on the NT, but instead leaves them as one type of shirt an entrant might choose to wear.

what time zone is this website following? It is presently 12:02am EST here, yet my last post is an hour ahead of that... :confused:

thats what i'm talking about i've sporting the tye-dyed collared shirt for years now
mj

thats what i'm talking about i've sporting the tye-dyed collared shirt for years now
mj



Thanks for checking in -- i like the way your right shoestrings are following through on your follow through! :D

Also, that was an awesome job you did at the USDGC last year! (wear i see you also sported a tie-dye collared shirt) :D

i'm guessing you'll probably get that elusive 4th digit in the next rating update... So what are your thoughts on the Coyote?

thanks, i try to do my best to chime in from time to time,
hopefully i might finally get to a 1000 player rating one of these updates.
as for the coyote i love it, it just filled in a gap in my midrange game that had been a struggle for me for a lone time
mj(owner of many tye-dyed shirts)

Nice Photo on the Recent Issue of the PDGA mag.

Is that a Tie Died , Collard shirt !!!!! :D

why yes it is

why yes it is



:D Sweet !!!!!! :D

Nice Photo on the Recent Issue of the PDGA mag.

Is that a Tie Died , Collard shirt !!!!! :D



:cool:I have my Tie Died Collard shirt on Today !!!!!!

I even went voting with it on , went to Costco and will play doubles today , by the Beach. Weather should be mid 70's................ :eek: :cool:

Nicely tailored. ;)

I played in a tourney saturday in one of the bamboo shirts sandalman can get ahold of for ya. It was incredible. Everyone else was dripping with sweat and I hardly had a bead on my forehead.

I played in a tourney saturday in one of the bamboo shirts sandalman can get ahold of for ya. It was incredible. Everyone else was dripping with sweat and I hardly had a bead on my forehead.



Sweet !!!!!! I have to try one of those !!!! :D