Mountain Sports Festival (http://www.wncdiscgolf.com/index.htm)
Mountain Disc Golf Experience '05
C-Teir AM Event
April 30 - May 1 2005

Wild Wing Cafe
PRESENTS:
Urban Skins Saturday and Sunday
$3000.00 CASH!

Saturday 9 holes $1000.00
$100.00 Each Hole $200.00 Last Hole

Sunday 9 holes $2000.00
$200.00 Each Hole $200.00 Last Hole

No. You are not hallucinating. AsheVegas is tipping the scales with an event that will blow your mind! Imagine putting with five skins carrying, hundreds in the gallery, and live music filling the air. If this doesn't make your adrenaline boil, then you need to see a doctor! Come join us to see the top Am Players battle for the Wild Wing Urban Skins Title. The weak and weary need not apply.

This is ams only? No pros this year???

We don't need no stinkin' pros! :D

Yeah Asheville, paypal on the way today. Here I come Murphdog, shotgun the queen bed! Any late night glow doubles at Pickens crib?

same date as the Crosstown?

same date as the Crosstown?


What he said! :confused: :mad:

The Crosstown is the same date as the Mountain Sports Festival. The Mountain Sports Festival happened to be the same day as the crosstown, thus no pro field.

Kind of a shame, 2 great competing tourneys. I would have a hard time choosing being a flip flopper, with potential to play birdie skins for some serious cash! Two times to play em too!

Skin to Win!!! Just like a wet T-shirt contest!!! :o:D;)

So is there gonna be golf too or is it all SKINS?

Depends on who you are hanging out with, and how good you can shoot!

From my understanding, the skins is after the two rounds each day. Last year it was just the top pro's. What was amazing was that after the skins event was over, a collection, started up by Joy4ully, got the spectators involved, and money was raised for the skins to keep going. Good ole mountain folk know where it's at!

how far from charlotte?
entry fee?\
hows it work?
whats your favorite color?

About two hours or less (for you guys more)
$50 advanced? (wncdiscgolf.com)
Smoothly (two rounds of golf, then skins in downtown Asheville, do it again the next day!)
Green

And they feed you in between rounds, great food. Some of it is really dank though, watch out for the Greenville bakers!

I can't resist.

Shameless self promotion on:

Or, you could come to Raleigh and win cash and a chance to qualify for the USDGC. If you play poorly you could still win a full size basket.

Last cash last year only averaged -1.5 per round!!!

If you can shoot better than -1.5 per round at Cedar and Zeb you will win more than your entry fee back.

Shameless self promotion off.

Kirk

Ryan and James,
Just Paypaled
Craig Wesnofske Advanced #23673
Shirt= large
Sorry Kirk, no pro-crosstown

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOO!

I would choose to play in the Asheville MSF over the X-town 100 times out of 100. I was extremely upset that I couldn't make the AMSF last year! Now this news is devastating. It is a crying shame that ams get this spectacular tournament instead of pros.

Thanks National Tour amd PDGA! I hope that catering to a handful of "touring players" is worth losing all the local pros/mullet pros. No local mullet/mediocre pros will play in the Xtown because the entry is too high and they have no chance of cashing. Look at the results from the Xtown in the last ten years. You can find a list of "lost players" that is longer than the current pre-registration list. I want to know why these players have dropped out of disc golf. I want the PDGA to know why they don't want to play in the premier tournament in their own home state.

I don't really have answers, but I'm **** good at pointing out problems. On this particular weekend, it seems that mediocre pro (956-980) gets the shaft, and the mullet pros (<955) gets a lollipop and a pat on the [*****].

Sorry for the partial thread drift, but I couldn't decide which thread to post on.

PS I applaud the work done by anyone associated with the Xtown or AMSF. I know that this conflict probably couldn't be avoided due to sanctioning rules. This rant is directed solely at the "P"DGA.

Whorley,

Please, please, please send your rant to the PDGA. I doubt they will read this thread.

I want them to know how the players feel.

Kirk

On this particular weekend, it seems that mediocre pro (956-980) gets the shaft, and the mullet pros (<955) gets a lollipop and a pat on the [*****].

sooooo, where is my lollipop.... or more importantly, my pat on the [*****]

How do all the <955 pro/ams that already pre-registered for the Xtown feel about this? I hope that playing in the mullet card at the Xtown is worth it. Maybe it will be a character builder. Meanwhile, a hoard of other NC/TN/other baggers get to play for big money (???) and throw discs around beautiful downtown Asheville during a wonderful festival.

Captain, have you had any <955 players back out yet?

Not yet but I am expecting it.

i feel like i would like to play them both, but unfortunately i will only be playing in the crosstown. i won't be on the mullet card, and hopefully that check on sunday will build some good character.

Atta boy, good attitude! Now you've truly earned that pat on the [*****]!

man i grew up in asheville and let me tell you that place is the ***** the ppl are great the food is better and DG what elese could a person ask for. NADA

its going to be LIVE....
four rounds at richmond hill,real nice payout, and free food... skins in downtown asheville, with live music.....
too bad mtl isn't coming, i hear this is one of his all time favorite courses...

lol,,,,

The skins are a side gig, correct?

duno.

It Must be because AM's cant play for cash.

is there a link to the flyer or something that will sum up this event all in one place.
Am event + skins...
Just curious, I am a 955 rp.

This sounds interesting...... tell us more.....

Is it going to be two rounds of golf at Richland Hills each day, with the skins to follow?

Since it seems like the skins works best with a single small group (rather than a bunch of different groups).....How are you going to determine who gets to play in the skins? Would it be the top 4 or 5 players on the leader board at the end of each day?

What?

?

You can enter (via paypal) and see all the details at Mountain Sports Festival (http://www.wncdiscgolf.com)
So far I think we have 15 signed up and we will be posting a pre-regristration list soon. The Urban Skins finish right in front of Wild Wing Cafe each night, so get ready to party!

Ryan B (WNC Disc Golf Board Member)

So the top four for the day get to play for those heavy skins and get to finish in front of a happening place with good people and great beer and food waiting for them....? IS that what your saying.....BEcause I do believe that if this is the case than there might be two friZZaks attending.

shouldn't the title read "Asheville NC Mountains Sports Festival AM and Pros under 955", since according to 2005 PDGA Tour Standards;

Pros rated <955 may now compete in Amateur divisions offered at PDGA Tour A B C and D tier events, for which they qualify based on player rating, age, and gender:

I believe its 955 or less.

i think the "<" stands for less than not less than or equal to

Frizzaks, ask me when you see me this weekend how awesome this tourney is. Read my post earlier about the skins last year. Way too cool to miss. Two Fishsticks hitting paypal soon, right? Don't miss out, as this will definately fill. I can also hook you up with a party palace to stay at. Western Casa De TNT! You boys may even get your membership approved that weekend if you go! ;)

from what i understand.....
two rounds at richmond hill on sat., skins to follow for the leaders of all divisions after the first two rounds. 1000$ total purse.
second day, final two rounds at richmond hill, awards ceremony, and skins to follow for the top four scores overall. 2000$ total purse.
the skins are a seperate, non-sanctioned event, pay out in cash.
ryan, correct me if i am wrong.

I don't see a correction.

not trying to correct, just clarify...

Hope to see the Kings Port Tennessee Boys!

Check Out the Music for the Weekend!

MOUNTAIN SPORTS FESTIVAL
Free Entertainment

The Festival Village Main Stage will be jamming all weekend long starting Friday night and continuing throughout the weekend with FREE live music and entertainment. Great music featuring blues, rock, jazz, bluegrass, funk, salsa and lots more!

Friday, April 29

5pm- Gamble Brothers Band

7pm- Geoff Achison

9pm- Jeff Coffin Mu'Tet


Saturday, April 30

11am- Red Mango

1pm- Makia Groove

3pm- Eta Carina

5pm- TBA

7pm- Captain Soularcat

9pm- Grease Factor


Sunday, May 1

1pm- Fifth House

3pm- Stephanie's Id

5pm- TBA

Is "be" the one with the incredibly deliciously special croissants?

sucks that i cant play this one, i am so glad the pdga has their act together and gets the NT schedule out so early!?!?!?
MJ

Well. I am a 955 palyer and want to play...Let me know if I can..can....if no can....sucks!

if your rated 955 you can play

Thanks MJ..see u saturday

Paypal, Paypal.

if your rated 955 you can play



Really?

But the Tour Agreement says if you are rated UNDER 955 :confused: I guess they have to draw a line somewhere, I wonder where it truly is... 955 or 956?

I believe girlie is right. NO equal to 955

so whats the official?

Matt, you can ride with me. :D

According to this, I guess 954 is the maximum player rating you can have. Stay in tune for the official ruling.

Pros rated <955 may now compete in Amateur divisions offered at PDGA Tour A B C and D tier events, for which they qualify based on player rating, age, and gender:

As rj stated earlier the "<" means LESS THAN not LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO.

take this from a math teacher, and if the PDGA says otherwise, then they are smoking the same things my students are.

is this open to non-PDGA members?

if so, I could play.

Hello all,
Meredith aka "Queen" here. I just wanted to let you know that we will have free lunch and breakfast on both days. 'Bearly Edible' will be providing HOT egg and cheese biscuits, muffins, coffee and juice on saturday for breakfast. The lunch server is not yet confirmed for saturday. Sunday's breakfast will be muffins, bagels, fruit and coffee and Lunch will be provided by Asheville Pizza and Brewing Co.
The WNC Disc Golf Club and I are very proud of what we have to offer you this year. Come on up and have fun! And if I forget your name...its okay...I AM THE QUEEN....

-Q

Yes. This tournament is open to non-pdga players.

954 is the max pro rating to enter Advanced in a PDGA sanctioned event. Same as "under 955"

so chuck, do you think there should be a seperate entry requirement for the skins?

how else can you win cash ONLY by playing in an AMATUER PDGA event?

skins should be open to pro's too.

has the "955" friZZak cashed?

The whole idea of skins with any direct connection to qualifying based on scores in an Amateur event sounds "pro-like" to me. If you've been around a while we know that most ams will eventually play in offseason leagues and informal unsanctioned events where all divisions get cash prizes because it's simpler. But to actually plan big cash prizes in a side event connected with a sanctioned event seems to stretch the already tenuous credibility of our Advanced division being amateurs. If most of the skins went to charity or toward scholarships or toward the NDGC in the name of the "skinners" or how about toward Mid-Nationals entry fees... yeah, now that's the ticket... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

If the skins event does not count towards tournament place or score, and if the skins payout is not included in the tournament payout or value reported to the PDGA, it is nothing but an unsanctioned competition following a sanctioned competition. How the contestants are chosen has nothing to do with it. It is the TD or sponsors money to do with what they want.

Here's the rule:

804.08
D. Professional Divisions: In professional divisions, players compete for money.

* * *

E. Amateur Divisions: Amateur players compete for trophies and/or prizes.

* * *

F. Amateur Status: A player relinquishes amateur status by competing in a Professional division of a PDGA sanctioned event and accepting prize money for finishing in that professional division. A player also relinquishes amateur status by accepting prizes in lieu of prize money for finishing in that professional division. Accepting money for winning an ancillary contest such as an ace pool does not cause a player to relinquish his or her amateur status.

What part of this rule is being violated? None! Because PDGA rules have no bearing on unsanctioned events. No one is getting PDGA points for this skins thing. No one is getting PDGA ratings for this skins thing. It is unsanctioned. It is just something fun to do after the tournament for the players that the TD lets play and anyone who wants to watch.

If the PDGA decides that this violates a player's am status it will be fun to dig up all the winners of all the after-event unsanctioned ancillary cash contests that have gone down in Michigan over the last few years. We'll be minting a lot of new pros.

Asheville, please un-sanction this tournament! There is no need for it to be sanctioned. People aren't coming for PDGA points! They're coming because Asheville is beautiful and your urban skins is a brilliant idea!

UN-SANCTION THIS TOURNAMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes i have cashed....I only ask because on the cover letter it states <956.....thought i squeaked by. Anyway...would have been fun

It is just something fun to do after the tournament for the players that the TD lets play and anyone who wants to watch.



The TD isn't chosing who plays.
Entry into the skins, which guaruntees cash to someone,
is directly tied to performance of the players in a sanctioned amatuer event.
I don't think this falls into the same category of "ancillary contest", although there is no other category defined in the rules. Vague rules make for nice loopholes.
For the pro's under 955 there is obviously no problem.

Come on, Bruce. I know you like to foment trouble for entertainment purposes, but I really hope a PDGA BOD member can see the problem with PAYING AMATEURS IN CA$H!!!!

Gimme a freakin' break on the lame spin for the loophole. Take that to court, or wherever. But please don't act like the plan is anything but for ams to get paid ca$h.

So your not allowing a 1000 rated player to play your event. Are we some kind of lepers or something? Whoever decided on this is a BIG PUSSSSSIE! :o What is the "REAL" reason you wouldn't let pursay Mad Dawg, Snoop, Schewby, or Stan the Man to play?

You don't deserve the right to urinate standing up! :o

As an up and coming NC am player I am certainly going to play. For all those pros bit ching, there is a NT event in Raleigh you can play. I won't be playing because the entry fee is too high, and the chances of cashing are slim. Plus, if I did cash miraculously against the likes of Climo and Barry, I wouldn't accept because I want to play in a major am tourney before I step up. Pros under 955, play pro at the Xtown. Ams, come to Asheville. The pros have enough money to fight over, in an event that ams won't play. Finally ams get an awesome event all to themselves(minus >955 pros) and pros who are skeered to compete in the X town start bit ching. If anything, I'd say get rid of the pros playing am, there $ is in Raleigh that weekend.

My paypal will be in this weekend, look for a strong DEP showing. Good luck to pros at the crosstown, this tourney is chump money compared to the payouts at the X town.

the reason there are no pros is because of the distance limit for other pro events on the same weekend as an NT.

Last year they had the skins downtown with the Pros, and it was such a success that they did it again this year. The National Tour stipulation is the main reason you won't see pros playing for skins, well, except for the sub 955 ones.

Ams playing skins in downtown Asheville is going to be awesome, and I am sure they'll rave about the tournament and course to the local papers, besides, it's not a Pro Tournament Course, right?

Asheville runs one of the best tournaments you are likely to attend, and this year, it'll be Am only. I don't think the promoters see this as a problem, non disc golfers probably won't know the difference between top Am and top pro golfers.

The thing I think many are overlooking is how wonderfully James Nichols is integrating disc golf into a sports festival, not simply running a concurrent tournament at a remote park that the other festivalees will not have any reason to attend, but rather, James is doing the unthinkable, bringing disc golf straight into downtown Asheville, and exposing others to the excitement that is disc golf by laying money on the line for every shot! James has to be commended for this, as, I think, he does a great job of promoting the sport to prospective players at this single event than any event I've seen. James does a huge job garnering sponsors for this tournament, and the players reap the benefits of his hard work more than they may realize.

This will be my 3rd Mountain Disc Golf Experience.

Why is this tournament sanctioned? It's skirting along the lines of amateurism, and would have never been sanctioned if the NT TD knew about the 'float rule.

Noone cares about points, they care about skins!

UN-SANCTION THIS TOURNAMENT!!!

If this tournament becomes un-sanctioned, I want be the first one on waiting list.

If it's unsanctioned, then pros of any rating might be able to sneak in and play as ams.

Was this just sanctioned? I do not see it on the PDGA Tour link.

If it's unsanctioned, then pros of any rating might be able to sneak in and play as ams.



No, if it's unsantioned, then the TD doesn't have to give superficial meaningless labels to each division.

Folks, the PDGA sanctioned the Asheville event after consulting with Crosstown TD Kirk Yoo and getting his ok. TD James Nichols agreed to have an Am only event, so he did not steal pros from the Crosstown. Asheville always schedules their event to coincide with the Mountain Sports Festival. Unfortunately, we had already scheduled the Dogwood Crosstown before we found out the date for the Festival. Both TDs have cooperated to find the best option for both tourneys, and both have made some sacrifices to make both tourneys work, and for that I am grateful. Dogwood Crosstown has 64 pre-registered at the moment, and I'm optimistic that the Crosstown will continue to fill up. I'm also hopeful that the Asheville tourney will do well.

As far as the Urban Skins goes, that skins game is NOT part of the PDGA sanctioned event. It is a completely separate event that PDGA has no jurisdiction over.

If anyone has any further questions for me, feel free to contact me using the Contact link at www.pdga.com. (http://www.pdga.com.)

John Chapman
PDGA Competition Director

As far as the Urban Skins goes, that skins game is NOT part of the PDGA sanctioned event. It is a completely separate event that PDGA has no jurisdiction over.



How can you say it isn't a part of the PDGA event when you have to play the PDGA event to even be considered for the skins AND you have to be around the top of each division after the second and forth rounds to be considered to be able to play for the skins.

That smells a little fishy to me.


Secondly, the TD of the Pro Xtown was not informed of the "float" rule when agreed to let the tourny in Asheville to coincide the same weekend as the NT event. Also of the 64 people that are pre-registered for the Pro Xtown, a few have contacted Kirk about dropping out so they can play the Asheville event. Some of these people are Pros that have accepted cash in a PDGA event but are "lucky" enough that their rating is lower than 955 so they can play down in advanced anytime they want to.

Come on, Bruce. I know you like to foment trouble for entertainment purposes, but I really hope a PDGA BOD member can see the problem with PAYING AMATEURS IN CA$H!!!!

Gimme a freakin' break on the lame spin for the loophole. Take that to court, or wherever. But please don't act like the plan is anything but for ams to get paid ca$h.

First, <font color="red">I AM NOT ON THE BOARD!!!! I RESIGNED TWO MONTHS AGO, dammint!</font> This is like the fifth time I've posted that. Who am I, Keith Johnson?

Second, this kind of thing has been going on for years in Michigan and we got the idea from somewhere else. They've done it in Lansing, they've done it in Kalamazoo and I've done it in Livonia. No one gets rated on the cash side thing; no one gets PDGA points for it; it has no bearing on your finish in the PDGA event; it is not counted in the TD report as part of the event value. It is ancillary.

Ace pools are ancillary. Getting an ace has a bearing on your score, your rating, where you finish, but the ace pool is still ancillary. So what they are doing is four times more ancillary than an ace pool. It is more ancillary than a 50/50 cash CTP.

No amateur is being paid cash for how they finished in the tournament. They are being paid cash for winning holes after the tournament is over. None of those holes count towards the tornament. There is plenty of seperation there.

Meanwhile the only reason why this issue is being raised is because a bunch of whining pros don't like the idea of an am-only event competing with their pro-only event. That is so bogus. This concept has not been controversial for at least five years but now that maybe a 940 rated pro might go to Asheville instead of donating to the Tour, it is a big issue.

Grow up and get a job if you need someone else's $125 that bad. Please.

Folks, the PDGA sanctioned the Asheville event after consulting with Crosstown TD Kirk Yoo and getting his ok. TD James Nichols agreed to have an Am only event, so he did not steal pros from the Crosstown.


Did Kirk know about the 'float rule' before he agreed? The new 'float rule' means that the ASMF is stealing pros from the Xtown.

Dogwood Crosstown has 64 pre-registered at the moment, and I'm optimistic that the Crosstown will continue to fill up.


I believe some pre-registered pros (<955) are dropping out like flies to run to Asheville.

I'm also hopeful that the Asheville tourney will do well.


If the tournament were open to anyone, it would fill up immediately!!!


As far as the Urban Skins goes, that skins game is NOT part of the PDGA sanctioned event. It is a completely separate event that PDGA has no jurisdiction over.


That's right... It's 'completely' separate event, open to anyone. As long as you qualify/play/place in the PDGA event that directly precedes it.

Folks, the PDGA sanctioned the Asheville event after consulting with Crosstown TD Kirk Yoo and getting his ok. TD James Nichols agreed to have an Am only event, so he did not steal pros from the Crosstown.


Did Kirk know about the 'float rule' before he agreed? The new 'float rule' means that the ASMF is stealing pros from the Xtown.

Dogwood Crosstown has 64 pre-registered at the moment, and I'm optimistic that the Crosstown will continue to fill up.


I believe some pre-registered pros (<955) are dropping out like flies to run to Asheville.

I'm also hopeful that the Asheville tourney will do well.


If the tournament were open to anyone, it would fill up immediately!!!


As far as the Urban Skins goes, that skins game is NOT part of the PDGA sanctioned event. It is a completely separate event that PDGA has no jurisdiction over.


That's right... It's 'completely' separate event, open to anyone. As long as you qualify/play/place in the PDGA event that directly precedes it.



Which is what I have said a couple times in different threads....

Meanwhile the only reason why this issue is being raised is because a bunch of whining pros don't like the idea of an am-only event competing with their pro-only event. That is so bogus. This concept has not been controversial for at least five years but now that maybe a 940 rated pro might go to Asheville instead of donating to the Tour, it is a big issue.

Grow up and get a job if you need someone else's $125 that bad. Please.



BOOYA....

Bruce,

My only goals in running the Crosstown have always been:

Fill the field
and
Pay all sponsorship money and entry fees back to the players.

The only exception to the above is the PDGA fees.

The only gain for me is the USDGC exemption which I have actively lobbied to have taken away.

Kirk

One other thing:

Pros rated 955 are NOT eligible to play in amateur divisions in PDGA sanctioned events. I cannot and will not grant any exception to this. Pros rated 954 or below ARE eligible to play in amateur divisions at PDGA sanctioned events.

Any further questions, please email me at chappyfade@kc.rr.com, , use the contact link at www.pdga.com (http://www.pdga.com), or feel free to call me at 816-547-6148. I don't keep track of the message boards often, nor do I like posting official information here. I am always happy to answer questions by direct email or phone.

John Chapman
PDGA Competition Director

P.S. Bruce Brakel did resign from the PDGA Board 2 months ago. If anyone's interested in becoming Oversight Director, I'd suggest you contact Commissioner Theo Pozzy.

First, <font color="red">I AM NOT ON THE BOARD!!!! I RESIGNED TWO MONTHS AGO, dammint!</font>


Amen


This concept has not been controversial for at least five years but now that maybe a 940 rated pro might go to Asheville instead of donating to the Tour, it is a big issue.


Ding, Ding, Ding!!! That's the big issue, Bruce-- The 'float rule.' John Doe from Asheville with PR 955 can't play in his hometown tournament, while Jimmy Bagger from Hickory PR 954 gets to play skins for hundreds of dollars. The 'float rule' is what is making this mess.

Bruce, your arguments with regards to this pros-playing-am nonsense seem to always end with "that's the way it is, get over it."

Asheville, please UN-SANTION THIS TOURNAMENT! You can pay out the tournament in plastic, and pay out the skins in gold, clams, cigarettes...whatever you want. Don't discriminate against players because of some ridiculous rating system that is not accurate anyway. There are many disc golfers that don't fit into the PDGA's criteria that are foaming at the mouth to play some skins in downtown Asheville. Don't turn people away! Your tournament would fill very quickly.

Please, this tournament is about promoting disc golf, competing and having fun. It's not about the PDGA!!!

UN-SANCTION THIS TOURNAMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen


FU

UVa

If woody went straight to the police none of this would have ever of happened.

First, <font color="red">I AM NOT ON THE BOARD!!!! I RESIGNED TWO MONTHS AGO, dammint!</font> This is like the fifth time I've posted that. Who am I, Keith Johnson?





and what's wrong with that??? :D

First, <font color="red">I AM NOT ON THE BOARD!!!! I RESIGNED TWO MONTHS AGO, dammint!</font> This is like the fifth time I've posted that. Who am I, Keith Johnson?


I read this board more than I should and probably more than almost anyone else, yet this is the first I've heard of your resignation. Too bad it was such a short tenure. I guess Terry's fingers were getting a little painful, eh? :)

Second, this kind of thing has been going on for years in Michigan and we got the idea from somewhere else. They've done it in Lansing, they've done it in Kalamazoo and I've done it in Livonia. No one gets rated on the cash side thing; no one gets PDGA points for it; it has no bearing on your finish in the PDGA event; it is not counted in the TD report as part of the event value. It is ancillary.


It's not ancillary. The am-only tournament is an integral part of the skins game. You have to lead or win in the Am-only tourney in order to play for $3000 in CA$H.

As far as the Urban Skins goes, that skins game is NOT part of the PDGA sanctioned event. It is a completely separate event that PDGA has no jurisdiction over.



Thanks for the loophole. With that, can we now pay Amatuers divisions in cash since this "separate skins" is kosher?

Let's go ahead and finish off the system instead of leave it halfway....

It's not ancillary. The am-only tournament is an integral part of the skins game. You have to lead or win in the Am-only tourney in order to play for $3000 in CA$H.



And what a great strategy to entice people to play! Since nobody complained about the additional skins format last year, I wonder if anybody would be complaining if it was a Pro/Am event? Sounds to me like some pros are jealous of not being able to participate :D

Just to set the record straight, I am not a pro. I am kind of an "am for life" kind of guy, mostly because of my disc golf skillz.

So the reality is that if giving cash to amateurs was a good thing, I would be a person to benefit from it.

But I think giving cash to ams is an 'orrible idea.

I think the right answer is to have the skins match, invlove the community, take disc golf to the streets and to the people, do all the great things it sounds like they are doing, AND SINCE IT IS AN AM-ONLY TOURNEY PAY THE SKINS IN MERCH INSTEAD OF CA$H.

Also, just because something was done wrong last year doesn't make it right.

Skins didn't involve ams last year.

Robbie,

I have only seen one pro that is really angry about not being able to play.

One of the biggest complaints is the "float" rule.





Let's rewind to 2004....

Let's pretend that Crosstown and AMDGE are on the same weekend. Since the Crosstown is a NT event, they make the other tourny AM only. You would not have an issue(unless someone wants to complain about the skins), about PROs(that have accepted cash) being able to play in the AM only tourny. Their only option would be the NT event or no event at all.

Fast Foward to 2005

The two tournies are during the same weekend. This year is different though because Pros(that have accepted cash) with ratings lower than 955 can back out of the NT event to play the AM event.



THIS WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE IF IT WASN'T FOR THE FLOAT RULE!

Were they on the same weekend last year?

They weren't the same weekend last year.

It was a big "what if" proposed by me.

Pro Xtown was 1 week before the Mountain Disc Golf tourny last year.

Pro Xtown = 5/1-5/2
Mountain = 5/8-5/9

Let's just cancel them both. Ams who are on the border of getting good and competing on the NT level can go "Rec for life" and simply play in local club events for cash, discs, peanuts or squat. Pro's can keep doing what they are doing, with lower payouts because the Ams finally figure out they are simply donating, and we can watch event after event fold, while Am or Pro/Am unsanctioned tournies flourish. Heck, why not just disband PDGA and use the remaining money in the Kitty for the Crosstown purse so everyone just gets over this. Asheville is fun everyone. Beautiful course, people, and a high quality run event that rivals and surpasses every NT or A-tier tourney I have played. It is really frustrating to hear so many pro's whine about this, as in all honesty, I have donated to your purse, along with the vast majority of Ams who are going to Asheville to have fun and actually be acknowledged for once. Why can't we have just one weekend of fun without all this BS.

A lot of the complaining is coming from 2800 miles away... so I don't think it will affect the turnout. I do think the Asheville folks put on a great event, and have done as much as anyone in the country rounding up sponsorship for a great event. Too bad both tourneys are on the same weekend.

I also think it's a shame that the PDGA enforces the $125 rule on NTs, someone like James Nichols could get enough sponsorship to reduce fees for such an event to $75, and many pros, regardless of rating, would want to attend.

The high entry fees for NTs also shut out ams who would like to play just to be part of a big event. Kind of a shame, since there are a lot of good local golfers who could defend their home turf.

I was talking to a Pro Grandmaster in Troy, Michigan, today while selling discs out of my trunk. He is planning on driving right by Asheville on the way to the XTown. He can play either, and I tried to talk him out of it, but to no avail.

No, I was not trying to talk him out of going to the XTown. I was trying to sell him on taking the West Virginia Turnpike because that route is so much the more pleasant and scenic way to Raleigh from here! But I had you going for a moment, eh?

I just want to play,,,,,,,,,,..............................ZZ

I'm Sjur you do.

if you are a pro and have a problem with this tourny shut up :mad: go play the cross town and win you cash. its a great idea to have an urban skins match, and if some local buisness wants to put up 3000 dollars so be it. There are plenty of chances for a PRO to win cash through out the year. This is a one time thing for AMS, besides some baggin pro is going to win it anyway so who cares!

Asheville, please UN-SANCTION THIS TOURNAMENT! You can pay out the whole tournament in plastic, and pay out the skins in gift certificates to Hardee's, clams, cigarettes... whatever you want. Don't discriminate against players because of some ridiculous rating system that is not accurate anyway. There are many disc golfers that don't fit into the PDGA's criteria that are foaming at the mouth to play some skins in downtown Asheville. Don't turn people away! Your tournament would fill very quickly.

Please, this tournament is about promoting disc golf, competing and having fun. It's not about the PDGA!!!

I believe if the MDGE became un-sanctioned, you wouldn't lose one single player that has committed and you would fill up the tournament instantaneously.

It's not about the payout, skins money, plastic, points, etc... Folks simply want the chance to play some urban skins in NC's most beautiful city. To turn people away from this experience would be a shame.

UN-SANCTION THIS TOURNAMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I for one have ALWAYS felt that am events should be just that - am events.

I have a big problem with the fact that ams will compete for cash based on scores from a sanctioned event.

and I guess you've never played for cash? Monthlies, ace pools, amongst friends.

didn't the winner of the AM xtown get into the PRO xtown and a chance to compete for cash :eek:

it's all in how you look at it.

: ) :

and I guess you've never played for cash? Monthlies, ace pools, amongst friends.



Yes, we all have, but those events aren't PDGA sanctioned.

didn't the winner of the AM xtown get into the PRO xtown and a chance to compete for cash.



Yes, they get their entry fee paid for. After that, they are just like any other am that enters the Xtown. If they do cash and accept, they relinquish their PDGA amateur status.

The MDGE is different. Those in the top 4 each day are gauranteed money between them. If they accept, I assume that they do not lose amateur status.

I just don't see the skins as a 'completely separate' from the regular rounds. I see this as one big am tournament with skins as a prize. Therefore, the skins they are playing for should be prizes, not cash.

it's nice you see it that way. but it doesn't change the facts. an am is getting a chance to get cash based on their results from one tournament. no one cried foul at am xtown so dont waste your breath here.

: ) :

One other thing I've noticed about the tournament announcement at the start of this thread:

The only info it contains is the date, the tier, and that there's SKINS, SKINS, SKINS, CASH, CASH, CASH!!! It doesn't even tell you what course the actual tournament is being held at.

Not one person has asked what the entry fee is, nor do they care.

Like I said before, this tournament doesn't need the PDGA. Nobody cares about points, they care about skins. Why is this tournament PDGA sanctioned?

*never mind*

: ) :

Asheville, please UN-SANCTION THIS TOURNAMENT! You can pay out the whole tournament in plastic, and pay out the skins in gift certificates to Hardee's, clams, cigarettes...



Look, Pal. I'm not about the cash. My best friend lives in Asheville. It is one of America's most beautiful cities. I've looked forward to this tournament since I couldn't make it last year.

Please don't be rude to me. I'm not busting on you. I'm busting on PDGA sanctioning and the 'float rule.' You don't know me. Scotty Faison does, he would tell you that I'm a straight up dude.

the skins are not sanctioned, not funded by the td's or tourney fundraising, it just so happens that wild wings cafe has chosen to put up the money, and use the mountain sports tourney as their way to chose who enters the skins. basically, the skins are a privately run and funded endeavor to gain publicity for the restaurant and the sport.

Asheville, please UN-SANCTION THIS TOURNAMENT!



Why? So a bunch of higher rated pro players can come steal some of the AM thunder (and possibly money)? I think it's cool that the AM's that play well will get the opportunity to play downtown in the skins...... and most of them probably wouldn't get that opportunity if it was a PRO/AM event. I say let the AM's have their one tournament to be the big dogs. Besides.... the pro Xtown isn't full yet, so signup for that one if you want to play.

Just quit your whining, you sound like and am who went pro too quick and now is very bitter about it because you cant play in the event.

didn't the winner of the AM xtown get into the PRO xtown and a chance to compete for cash.



Yes, they get their entry fee paid for. After that, they are just like any other am that enters the Xtown. If they do cash and accept, they relinquish their PDGA amateur status.



yea they lose their amateur status but can still play an am event.....so all you people that are pro and 955 and above....SHUT YOUR PIE HOLES.....you can win 3k also that weekend.....just win the xtown....i cant believe all these sissys......now what if the skins were random draw out of the whole field......pick 4 names out of a hat....would yall still be *********???

and I guess you've never played for cash? Monthlies, ace pools, amongst friends.



Yes, we all have, but those events aren't PDGA sanctioned.



Ever heard of eBay? Plastic is as good as cash.

Get over it.....Am's are semi-pro's and Pro's are semi-pro's (except maybe 20-25 of the best).

how many discs can u buy with $1000?

Lots - if you are well connected.
More if you buy DX rather than CFR.
What does your question have to do with anything on topic?

how many discs can u buy with $1000?



you cant even buy 2 discs with 1k.....if it was 1100 you could get two of those clear 2001 ce rocs!!!

Area Camping?

At Donnie Murphy's house! :D

Bluridge south from AshVegas, mile marker 420 (Black Bossom)...really good views and free!

he said mile marker 420 :D

Seriosly though, thinking about coming, sounds like fun.
putting a fresh coat of paint on the camper....

A bunch of us stayed at the koa off of 40 and it was really cheap.

The closest campground is the French Broad River Campground. I haven't checked if they are still in business since the floods...but their number is 658-0772.

FYI: We now have Rio Burrito serving lunch on Saturday.

-Queen

Long live Rio-Burrito!

As a representative of the PDGA, I would like to express my appreciation to James and Meredith for everything they do for disc golf. They have got it going on in Asheville!!! I have seen Richmond Hill go from a plot of land with baskets to a great course with awesome events and tons of players.
Don't listen to the arguments, you guys have the experience to handle the tournament as you wish! I hope to make it this year.
Sincerely,
Sue Anne Beym
Georgia

If there is a ratings update before the tournament, will those be the official numbers used for the <955 cut-off?

i don't think that will be an issue, next update will occur;
mid-May. Looking at the calendar, I'm estimating Monday, May 23rd since the 15th is on a Sunday.

Thanks for all of you that continue to PM me. I read and appreciate your opinions -- It's a shame you can't do the same.

Good luck to all at the tournament..
hopefully someone can win enough money to make it out to Flagstaff this summer!?

Sorry, he said early May in the PR thread.

That's why I said "if."

can ya'll stop this (BS) and just lets us ie... am's, pro's play DG. WTF i mean dear GOD.

As a representative of the PDGA, I would like to express my appreciation to James and Meredith for everything they do for disc golf. They have got it going on in Asheville!!! I have seen Richmond Hill go from a plot of land with baskets to a great course with awesome events and tons of players.
Don't listen to the arguments, you guys have the experience to handle the tournament as you wish! I hope to make it this year.
Sincerely,
Sue Anne Beym
Georgia



I feel the same way you do. Last year, I could not attend the tournament. If you look on last year's MDGE thread, I praised James for the job he did.

I agree with every single word you say, and they may have the experience to run the tournament as they wish. However, it is my opinion that the cash skins it is not an ancillary contest and is tied directly to a PDGA Amateur event.

I read what Mr. Chapman said. I simply disagree with it.

Is this expected to fill? Never played Asheville before, what are the courses like?

Just like Oklahoma... just a couple trees on the course. flat.

Just kidding, think of the exact opposite of wide open flat courses and you've got Asheville. Oh yeah, fairways lined with Poison Ivy as far as the eye can see... like little shamrocks...

Hello all. If you are interested in scoping out the course, the Asheville Pizza and Brewery is having a Kick$%* Tourney this weekend (April 16th - one day two rounds) at Richmond Hill Disc Golf Course. We have Rubber Mats down for this tourney, and we will also have them for the MDGE '05

Asheville Pizza and Brew is also hosting a phat party after the tourney! If you have not had the Red Light IPA, you don't know what you are missing!


ASHEVILLE PIZZA AND BREWERY TOURNAMENT
APRIL 16TH
� 11:00 Players Meeting
� 2 rounds Starting at 11:30 and 3:00

$10.00 Entry for Fun Round
- Asheville Pizza Stamp Disc, food and prizes

$15.00 Open
- Cash Payout
- Asheville Pizza Stamp Disc and Food

CONTACT FOR MORE INFO: www.ashevillepizza.com (http://www.ashevillepizza.com)

Is this expected to fill? Never played Asheville before, what are the courses like?



This tourney has filled every year.

Richmond Hill Disc Golf Course (Home of MDSE '05)

Richmond Hill Disc Golf Course, Asheville, NC is a heavily wooded course with elevation changes in abundance. A full 18 holes are available for play. Installed in 2001, this course was designed with the serious player in mind. The primary tee box placement is set for the advanced/professional player, although many holes contain alternate/amateur tee box placements.

Richmond Hill Disc Golf Course, with its lengthy 6,093 feet, is arguably the most challenging and exciting woods course in the Southeast.

Directions: From I-240 take exit 4A onto Highway 19/23 N. Go 1.5 miles. Take Highway 251/UNC-Asheville exit, turn left at the end of ramp. Turn left at the next stoplight onto Riverside Drive. Go 0.5 mile, turn right onto Pearson Bridge Road. Go 0.3 mile and take first right onto Richmond Hill Drive. Go past Richmond Hill Inn. At the top of the hill take a right. Take a left at Richmond Hill Road. At bottom of hill take a gravel road into park.

[QUOTE]
Is this expected to fill? Never played Asheville before, what are the courses like?



PHOTO GALLERY FROM MOUNTAIN SPORTS FESTIVAL 2004 (http://www.wncdiscgolf.com/mtn/)

The link above shows some of Richmond Hill and it also has images from last years Urban Skins.

Do the tues. and Fri. mini's start at 5 or 3:30?

Do the tues. and Fri. mini's start at 5 or 3:30?



Tuesday Doubles start at 5:30 (Random draw)

Friday Singles start at 5:30

Both are held at Richmond Hill

Thank you.

Thanks for the pictures and info, looks like a kick ***** course and a great time. I find out by next week if I'll be moving to Kingsport,TN if so, I'll see you all in A$heville.

...I'm a straight up dude.



I'll vouch.

Sounds like BAD scheduling to me, even with all of the carzy "distance" and "float" rules. I'm sure the TD's involved will have things right in 2006.

Two mullets from the coast just paypal ed. Looking foward to a weekend in the mountains. Besides the Festival, any bands that weekend at the stella or the peel?

bruce, john c,
how do these skins differ from the skins at glo?
entry is based on your performance in a pdga event.
cash is paid out.
at glo cash is reported to pdga as tourney winnings.
at asheville it will not be?
the only difference apparently is in the reporting/lack thereof.

does that make it ok for me to pay out cash to ams and simply not report it?? of course not.

[QUOTE]

while Jimmy Bagger from Hickory PR 954 gets to play skins for hundreds of dollars.
Why u gota pic on Hickory???? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

No offense, I was just trying to pick somewhere in between Asheville and Raliegh for my example.

Also, no offense intended to Jimmy Bagger or the Bagger family. :p

Good, because my rating is only 941 Biatch.
BS15335

Bum,
How come when I go to Asheville Brew and View site I can't find anything about Sat? Meredith informed me that they wanted people to pay in advance. :confused: BS

Good, because my rating is only 941 Biatch.
BS15335



941.....if your a pro thats a sucky rating

What do think you are going to get out of a hickory golfer. HAHAHAHAHA

Good, because my rating is only 941 Biatch.
BS15335



941.....if your a pro thats a sucky rating



have you won a Crosstown?

man, those Urban Skins pics look AWESOME and the course looks SICK. if i hadn't already committed to caddying on Saturday at the X-Town, and if i ever traveled to play tournies, and if i could play worth a crap, i'd be there!

Brad,
YOu can pay the day of for the Asheville Pizza Tournament (April 16th). Wncdiscgolf.com has all the vital info. Hope to see you there!
Bum

CLICK HERE FOR UNOFFICIAL PRE-REGRISTRATION (http://www.wncdiscgolf.com/mountain.htm)

Better Hurry!

BUM

Jolly Green and THE WOP scheduled to invade A-Vegas, eta: 15 days and counting. And we bring fellow invaders with us, don't believe the hype.

bruce, john c,
how do these skins differ from the skins at glo?
entry is based on your performance in a pdga event.
cash is paid out.
at glo cash is reported to pdga as tourney winnings.
at asheville it will not be?
the only difference apparently is in the reporting/lack thereof.

does that make it ok for me to pay out cash to ams and simply not report it?? of course not.

Not reporting the skins as part of the event in any way makes it a separate event. That's all there is to it. The skins round does not count towards ratings, points, place of finish or event value. No amateur is being paid cash for how he finished in the sanctioned event. If the DGLO organizers wanted to do their skins unsanctioned and include amateurs and not report it as part of the event results or event value, they could.

There is no rule against using a sanctioned tournament as a qualifier for an unsanctioned event on the same day. That is all they are doing in Asheville. There is no rule against an amateur taking cash at an unsanctioned event. That goes on all the time everywhere I know of.

The Asheville organizers are just one of many groups of tournament organizers who have found a way to pay unsanctioned cash to amateurs after a PDGA event based on the outcome of a separate competition. I'm not sure who first thought up this idea but it is not original to Asheville.

the <font color="red"> INVASION </font> is making its way across the state
too bad i can't help out on this one....money problems :D

Thank you to all of the positive talk. We are very excited about this year's event. A little note though....you don't need to call us so early in the morning. lol

Also, for those who have been to our event in the past, there is a little issue with parking. We have widened the lot a bit and we hope most if not all will be able to park in the lot. We would still like for anyone to PLEASE carpool from where you are staying. I'd like to say that this will be the last time we will have to do this, but I think that is what we said last year. As most of you know we will be losing this particular course at Richmond Hill. We have been told that the move is imminent (sp?). If you have questions about this e-mail the club...don't fill up the chat board with it. wncdgc@earthlink.net

Good Luck all!!

-Q

the <font color="red"> INVASION </font> is making its way across the state
too bad i can't help out on this one....money problems :D




the clizark will be there mailed my money today mrs clizark is also playing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good the see the Mrs. is making her debut. Look foward to seeing the Clizarks and all the Charlotte fellas in Asheville.

did some one say PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! G-vagas style!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kozak ..... Kozak ...... Kozak ....... Kozak.......Kozak .......

Kozak ..... Kozak ...... Kozak ....... Kozak.......Kozak .......



Who?...... Who?.....Who?......
Who?......Who?.....Who?...

NVASION, NVASION, NVASION. Clark, good to hear you're gonna be around bra! Can't wait!

its on gville bretheren...

Mooky will be in the hizzle,
any more suggestions on camping? must have electrical hook ups

try the koa on 40 it has alot of stuff.

I don't have any specific recommendations...but here are a few places that are close that you could call...

ARDEN RV PARK & CAMP GROUNDS (828) 684-4791

ASHEVILLE-EAST KOA (828) 686-3121

FRENCH BROAD RIVER CAMPGROUND (828) 658-0772- closest

MAMA GERTIE'S HIDEAWAY (828) 686-4258

thanx

Good, because my rating is only 941 Biatch.
BS15335



941.....if your a pro thats a sucky rating



have you won a Crosstown?



nope......im 0-1 in crosstowns.....but like sean said....greenville's commin and you had better watch out.....crosstown win or not

Played last year:
Was by far the best tourney i played in all year:
run very professionally and expertly:
hate that i have to miss it year:
but it is a long trip from japan:
I will be their next year even if it is on a new course:
Tear it up everyone
jason

Richmond Hills is a great course. It teaches you accuracy, driving narrow fairways, and most of all, course management. big arm players can't just rip on every hole, Asheville is a finesse course. I think people get frustrated because they treat the par 5 like it's a par 4, and end up taking an 8. I just treat hole 7 like 3 different holes. It is a perfect landing zone type par fiver. you need to get your tee shot up to the edge of the creek (or beyond if you dare), then you must navigate around the wall of trees and up the fairway (but stay on the fairway), then you are taking an easy approach to the basket. Going for a 3 here is silly and will cost you, yeah, I'm sure it's been done, but the trouble you risk is not worth the extra stroke or 2 you'll gain when you do make it.

I've heard a lot of complaints about hole 18 too, which I think is crazy, this is a very fair hole for righty or lefty. I've had putts at the basket on my drive with a roc, I've also taken some ugly scores if I don't get it to turn over or do so too much.

I'm looking forward to a couple weeks from now.

/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

i agree with that assesment of richmond hill matt, and although some may disagree, i'm glad to see that you appreciate the course for what it is.

...if i hadn't already committed to caddying on Saturday at the X-Town, and if i ever traveled to play tournies, and if i could play worth a crap, i'd be there!



1 - the dude i was caddying for opted to go to Asheville instead of play the X-town.
2 - i make an exception to the travel rule every now and then
3 - no change in #3

2/3 majority is enough for me. i registered today and can't wait to head down and over to A-ville. can't miss my one chance to play this an an AM-only tourney.

Asheville is my second most favorite out of town course and if you have never plyed there be ready for a challenge. I will be down right hurt when the course is taken out but I also hope that the replacement will be as tough or tougher.

Just paypaled and I am as excited as I can be to be playing in this great tournament and Richmond Hill again!

Tripp, do tell what your first is?

Looks like quite a field is shaping up for the upcoming tourney in Asheville....... can't wait to see everybody and play some disc golf in the mountains........ PARTY TIME TOO!

Asheville, the best am only tourney in the country. The am only tourney that lets some pros in and keeps some pros out. The am only tourney that plays for cash skins.

Gotta love the PDGA. Redefining the word amateur on a daily basis.

boooooooo.......

its on gville bretheren...



they think they know, but they have no idea, or is that no eyed dear,

[QUOTE]
Asheville, the best am only tourney in the country. The am only tourney that lets some pros in and keeps some pros out.

did you go to Bowling green? 460 Ams! I dont think this tourny will ever get to be the best, but maybe top 10 :)

Myers san!! Hope all is well with you and the Mrs. in the land of the rising sun. :) The boys in Gville are shaping the new course up nicely; it will be glistening when you get back! Good luck to all in Asheville, one of my favorite areas. Take care, Jason.
One

There are a couple of Ashe-Vegas yocals that will take your skins money every Sunday, if you are stupid enough to bet agianst them. Be prepared Out-of-Towners! Don't be surprised to see "All Day" . "Dirdy", "Toots", or the "Ghost" kick your arse!

Boooooooooooyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

Asheville, the best am only tourney in the country. The am only tourney that lets some pros in and keeps some pros out.


did you go to Bowling green? 460 Ams! I dont think this tourny will ever get to be the best, but maybe top 10 :)





i detected a slight bit of sarcasm in the original post. just a hunch, though.

46 have pre-registered . At this rate, the tourney will fill real soon! When we get close to filling, don't be surprised to see the Paypal button disappear. It is much simplier using one payment method to fill the last couple of spots.

I am trying to get in touch with Jeff Bost and Denice Kiiser. Can anyone help me? Thanks.
james.

Asheville, the best am only tourney in the country. The am only tourney that lets some pros in and keeps some pros out.


did you go to Bowling green? 460 Ams! I dont think this tourny will ever get to be the best, but maybe top 10 :)





i detected a slight bit of sarcasm in the original post. just a hunch, though.



what up GLU! Glad to see you are not giving up after the cross town!

Gotta love the PDGA. Redefining the word amateur on a daily basis.

that should be your new signature..

what up GLU! Glad to see you are not giving up after the cross town!



hey man. yeah, AM X-Town '04 was a rough one for me. but what are ya gonna do? to quote Billy Yandel: "Keep playing." simple, wise and to the point. so unlike myself!

Asheville will be my 1st tourney since the X-Town, not counting the Ript Raiser at Zeb. can't wait!

I am trying to get in touch with Jeff Bost and Denice Kiiser. Can anyone help me? Thanks.
james.
---------------------------------
James, You have a PM. I'm working on that for you!

SD

I am trying to get in touch with Jeff Bost and Denice Kiiser. Can anyone help me? Thanks.
james.



Gotcha James...check your PMs.

Thanks for the info guys. I'll see you in a few.

james.

I hope that the comp does hold it's own in A-Ville. From what I hear The Hill is perty challenging. Team Divot rollin deep invading all of NC. It's been brought.

after reading some of the things said on this thread i might have to change my mind.....i think....if i have enough money and support...i will be coming to the ashville tourney

Who's selling those shirts with the anti pdga logo on front, and in big block letters on back "Whorley is a Buzz Kill"?

Call me what you want, there are ten other people on this thread that expressed the same feelings. I don't mind being called names; I hope it makes you feel like a big man to do so. It won't stop me from expressing my thoughts.

AMS PLAYING FOR CASH SKINS DUE TO THEIR FINISH IN A PDGA TOURNAMENT IS WRONG!!! It just shows that the term "amateur" is superficial and meaningless.

shut up!!!!! i would still go even if there were no skins! its not wrong if a local buisness puts money up for a tourny, there has to be some perameters for who gets to play, otherwise it would take all night to play skins. i say agian SHUT UP!

if it just so happens that it is a "PDGA" so be it!

J,

The only problem I have with the skins is that it is based on how you do in a PDGA tourny. If the people playing for the skins was randomly drawn, then I wouldn't have any qualms.

The other thing I have is PDGA based, and it is the float rule.

why does it matter?

the skins are set up to allow people visiting the festival to see disc golf in action. this might spur the interest in disc golf amongst these individuals. who cares if ams are playing for cash after a pdga event. I play for cash atleast once a week and I am still an am.

your right it does have to do with how you play in the tourny. A PDGA tourny! So what should they do? Have a random draw? No! The idea behind this is the festival, look @ the big picture here they want people to see discgolf! They have a tournament during this festival. Urban skins are dreamed up! The community gets to seeand get around the game. A local buisness, jumps on the opritunity for advertising, puts up a few thousand for skins.

What you have here is the town and buisness embracing a game and a community! It is a wonderful expression of people working together! if it were 10 dollars a hole would it be different? Yes, the bottom line is that this guy cant come play! There is a National Tour for him to play during that weekend, Why not go there, beat Kenny, Barry, Shwebb..... and win your money. I have an 887 player rating, I probably dont have a chance to beat Yann, Gough, Jeb Bryant.... So i will more than likely be a "Skins Spectator". The point is Im not ******** about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it a shame that people are clouding over the fact that James Nichols has worked his [*****] off to get this festival together, we should be talking about how cool that is and what a great thing this is instead of putting up with these cry babbies!

look, I'm an am and I think this is BS, so your excuse about pros being upset for being excluded doesn't hold up. I don't blame the tournament, your right they are trying to promote the sport, thats great. I don't think less of any am that goes to play, $3000 is $3000 'nough said there.
The responsibility for this rest solely on the PDGA. The rule that "allows" this to happen is a loophole due to insufficient definition as to what actually constitutes "ancillary". These skins are NOT equivalent to an ace pool. An ace pool has no bearing on how you finish, or play for the whole tournament, or that anyone will necessarily get it. Someone is going to win skins and they are going to do so as a DIRECT result of how they play in a sanctioned event. And I don't want to hear that they do this in Michigan all the time, so what. Thats hardly a legitimate justification. This isn't the beginning of this discussion, just another feather in the cap, so to speak. Its time the PDGA took a hard look at divisional structure and put an end to all of this.
This sets the precednt for any private entity (i.e. person, club, business, etc.) to attach cash purses to the end of am tournaments. take the top three players and let them play sudden death for the money, or a host of other scenarios. The only stipulation seems to be that the money comes from a private source (i.e. not reported to the PDGA) and that you play at least one extra hole.

look @ the big picture here


yeah try it. Everybody wants to talk about THIS tournament and how much it will promote the sport. The question remains: AM's winning cash? Thats either a contradiction or an oxymoron, or maybe both. And thats not good for the sport!

shut up!!!!!



i say agian SHUT UP!



instead of putting up with these cry babbies!


REAL CONSTRUCTIVE, of course what do expect from someone who can't even come up with their own name.
Special ED is the "0 time champ", at least for now!

Tater,

All I am saying is what is the difference between this and say a monthly or random doubles? I win cash at these type of events all the time and yet as you and I both know, I am still a sucky AM. $10 or $3000 the cash is cash. Does this make me a pro? Why does it matter that a PDGA event is how the skins participants are chosen? The two events are only connected by the selection process.

This sets the precednt for any private entity (i.e. person, club, business, etc.) to attach cash purses to the end of am tournaments.



Brilliant!!!

The two events are only connected by the selection process.



They are connected? Not according to the competition director. They are completely separate tournaments. (tic) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

...what is the difference between this and say a monthly or random doubles?



The difference is that this tournament is PDGA sanctioned and monthlies/doubles are not.

Tater,

All I am saying is what is the difference between this and say a monthly or random doubles? I win cash at these type of events all the time and yet as you and I both know, I am still a sucky AM. $10 or $3000 the cash is cash. Does this make me a pro? Why does it matter that a PDGA event is how the skins participants are chosen? The two events are only connected by the selection process.



Tater,

How come you don't post as 'tatersak' any more?

I believe that you are talking about two different people. I believe tatersak's name is Spurgeon. Take this for what it's worth, I've never personally met either of these folks. SD or Mooky should be able to verify this.

Jeff and whorley, tator is tator from TT and DEP, TATERSAK is t spurgeon, ill be at the tourney though, I am just going to play golf and hoping some friends will be on those street each night, while watching it ill sip on a few adult beverages for everyone missing this experience while im there as well. Thanks james for the opportunity and all the hard work. cant wait to play richmond Hill

REAL CONSTRUCTIVE, of course what do expect from someone who can't even come up with their own name.
Special ED is the "0 time champ", at least for now!

[/QUOTE]

Actualy I did come up with that myself. I dont know Special ED never met him or heard of him. but if he wants the name he can have it, iits just for fun anyway.

How come know one ******* about all the drug use and drinking during "PDGA Sanctioned Events" ? That would be a better discussion than this stupid one.


By the way great party last week :)

first of all J, I know both you and Ed very well....in TT's defense, Ed had the 0 time champ thing before you did. In your defense, you do not know Ed or that it was a thing he did.....either way that is not the case.

Personally, I think that its total bull that people both drink and smoke in tournaments and I think that its total bull that Asheville is doing what it is doing.

I've heard every excuse I could think of for why people think its ok, but bottom line, the PDGA is starting to lose sight of amatuerism and this a perfect example why.

Any time that cash is given out to an am due to performance in a sanctioned event, he should lose his / her amatuer status!!!!

Bottom Line....no ifs an or butts.

I, as an amatuer still, could play this tournament if I wanted to, afterall I did last year and had a blast (the best run tournament and best overall experience I have ever had at a tournament), but I am chosing to compete at the crosstown, because I do no support giving amateurs money, and I certainly do not support the float rule.

Should Ams playing pro get a discounted entry fee for playing?

I have no problem with that, as long as the amatuer has told thr TD he will deny the money before hand....another problem with the PDGA IMO

Good call Tizzle!
...did I really just type that?

Obviously this has become a mess, everyone thinks their opinion is the right one. So I'll pose some more questions:
Is this not exactly the kind of situation that we have a "PDGA" for?
Are they not the one's responsibe for avoiding this kind of conflict?

Yeah, and the PDGA has said that they are seperate tournies(which is BS).

I think this will open up the PDGAs eyes if the Open Men's side of the Pro Xtown doesn't fill up and they take a look at who played each tourny(there are locals that could play Xtown and would play Xtown if Ashville wasn't the same weekend).

I think that this is a great example of "getting by on a techincality" so to speak.

PDGA Rule : No pro events within 400 miles of a NT
Technicality: this is am only, but b/c of the float rule, it is acceptable to have pros in the same state playing a different tournament.
Judegement: Bullchit

PDGA Rule: No am can recieve a cash prize or merchendise in lue of cash due to performance in a PDGA event.
Technicality : The skins are not a part of the PDGA event and will not be counted in winnings
Judgement : Bullchit

I think that the PDGA needs to look at this tournament and see what happened with it and restructure some rules to prevent things like this happening again

Should Ams playing pro get a discounted entry fee for playing?


Kirk already addressed this. It is not a possiblity due to NT sanctioning guidelines.

I think that the PDGA needs to look at this tournament and see what happened with it and restructure some rules to prevent things like this happening again.



this is why we pay dues, to have a governing body set rules, thoroughly defined, to avoid chaos!

technically, we AMs shouldn't be playing for plastic, either. it's just another form of currency. AMs are supposed to play for medals, titles, trophies, etc.

until the PDGA gets it straight, i say have $3,000 skins for AMs at every sanctioned tournament in the country every single weekend. that would rule.

Jeff and whorley, tator is tator from TT and DEP,



Got it straight now, thanks Tater! Hope all is well! -Jeff

ps - any AM whose principles are such that they can't, in good conscience, play CA$Heville should also deny plastic. right?

i accept plastic and i would accept skin money b/c it doesn't affect my conscience to do so. i'm an opportunistic ba$tard who plays by the rules. as long as the rules allow it, i'm going to do it. when it's outlawed, i won't.

technically, we AMs shouldn't be playing for plastic, either. it's just another form of currency. AMs are supposed to play for medals, titles, trophies, etc.




But then how would the disc companies make up that lost money by not being able to dump plastic on these tournaments?...hmmmmm

i'm an opportunistic ba$tard who plays by the rules.



I am intrigued by your philosophy and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

If the people playing for the skins was randomly drawn


if the peepole playing for skins were randomly drawn....then i gaurantee that one of the few would be better than the rest...therefore...the top few should be playing for it....not randomly drawn :D

I probably dont have a chance to beat Yann, Gough, Jeb Bryant....



dammit....U forgot MUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How come know one ******* about all the drug use and drinking during "PDGA Sanctioned Events" ? That would be a better discussion than this stupid one.



c'mon clark....every1 knows that drugs and alcohol helps peepoles games.....that's Y i've been blowing it lately :D

if the peepole playing for skins were randomly drawn....then i gaurantee that one of the few would be better than the rest...therefore...the top few should be playing for it....not randomly drawn (emoticon deleted)



Just because you use "therefore" doesn't make it a valid argument.

How come know one ******* about all the drug use and drinking during "PDGA Sanctioned Events" ? That would be a better discussion than this stupid one.



c'mon clark....every1 knows that drugs and alcohol helps
peepoles games.....that's Y i've been blowing it lately :D



I know but i still think that if you ae going to get all up set about this deal, you should stay cosistant and follow the other rules as well. I agree that what is going on is through a technicality or loop hole. The fact is until the PDGA says its wrong and establishes a clear rule ITS NOT WRONG. Until then we should be giving props to the TD supporting him and complaining about all the other defined rules that get abbused.

dammit....U forgot MUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/QUOTE]


i didnt know you were comming? BRING IT :cool:

wow.....

wow

WOW

At least my best am tourney in the nation heading is still intact. And for whoever tried to drop Bowling Green, until that club puts up 3000 bucks in UrbanSkins, to ams, this is the best AM tourney. I just wish this was a major event so the baggin pros couldn't attend. Someone told me a pro was playin int.

And to hopefully end this heartfelt discussion, the cash is going to be given away, the pros are going to come, no big precedent will be set, more $ will be given away at the X town, and everyone will have a good time. Next year things will change and still not everyone will be happy. You can't please everyone all the time.

And I have Gough's 7 tag.

and for whoever tried to drop Bowling Green, until that club puts up 3000 bucks in UrbanSkins, to ams, this is the best AM tourney.


and I have Gough's 7 tag.



I droped the Bowling Green : :p I dont think this tourny will will be the best but top ten yes! :cool:


I have your # 66 tag!

I am intrigued by your philosophy and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.



It's a pornography store. I was buying pornography.

no big precedent will be set


how can you say that...
its obvious that this has set a precedent about pay outs.
I'm officially done with this thread.

Neville Handel pdga#24102

is listed twice on your pre-reg list

dammit....U forgot MUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





i didnt know you were comming? BRING IT :cool:



yo clark....i would love to bring it....and if i do....U know i'll at least beat U :D

Just because you use "therefore" doesn't make it a valid argument.



yeah....but U know its TTrue!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Ryan and James or either.........add me to your pre-reg list or I will have to go all Polish on you guys. I used to work for the postal service as well, so I have the postal polish thing as well if this doesn't work. :o

Thank you for adding my name!

SO.... can we start takin ***** now?

ADV 1.2.3
INT 1.2.3
Master 1.2.3

This guy looks like a bagger: Ross Porter Playin MA 2 Nice.

Yeah he is a bagger :DAJ won last year and is playin INT again..